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 ..

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," Ii *’

Major Royal Air Force Stations

in the United KingdoJIl
"~ V"d
Grnntown-On-Spey

Buchan

Machrihanish

Waddington
Digby
Coningsby
Cranwell
Cottesmore
Coltishall
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Marham
North Luffenham
Wyton
Honington
Brampton
Henlow
lnnsworth Stanbridge
Br e Norton Halton
Stanmore Park
Northwood

Northolt
Headley Court
Uxbridge
High Wycombe

Boscombe Down

As at 1 April 1996
 4

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N
LONDON EMBASSIES AND HIGH COMMISSIONS OF OUR NATO PARTNERS

The High Commission for Canada Royal Norwegian Embassy

Macdonald House 25 Belgrave Square
1 Grosvenor Square London
London SWIX SQD
WIX OAB
Belgian Embassy Portuguese Embassy
103 Eaton Square 11 Belgrave Square
London London
SWIW 9AB SWIX SPP
Royal Danish Embassy Spanish Embassy
55 Sloane street Flat 4, 3 Hans Crescent
London London
SWIX 9SR SWIX OLN
French Embassy Turkish Embassy
58 Knightsbridge 43 Belgrave Square
London London
SWIX 7JT SWIX SPA
German Embassy. United States Embassy
23 Belgrave Square 24 Grosvenor Square
London London
m"l1X 8PZ WIA lAE
Greek Embassy Embassy of Luxembourg
lA Holland Park 27 Wilton Crescent
London London
WIl 3TP SWIX 8SD
Italian Embassy Embassy of Iceland
5 Lygon Place 1 Eaton Terrace
London London
SWIX OJX SWIW BEY
Royal Netherlands Embassy
38 Hyde Park Gate
London
SW7 5DP
 (1-’5)
This ,enclosure has been taken off and placed on File 64/3/1 Part A &1~vre.- <t
1’1-

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300 "a9l:1d :3 51:1 :>35 01 61:7:01 86. nON 13

.. 25 Written Answers 8 JULY 1996 Written Answers 26

This helpful recommendation, which reflects the local Mr. Soames: NATO standardisation agreement 3531
opinions that have been voiced over many months by my first came into operation in 1964.
hon. Friends and others, will be considered by Barnet
health authority at its next meeting.
Read Codes
Mr. Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health,
pursuant to his answer of 1 July, Official Report, column
334, if he will specify the organisation or person carrying
out the study of the licensing arrangements between
Official Secrets (Military Accidents)
Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the SecretarY of State
for Defence what proposals he has to alter the provisions
contained in official secrets legislation in relation to
military incidents resulting in (a) injuries and
(b) fatalities; and if he will make a statement. [35 03]
I f
Computer Aided Medical Systems pIc and the r-,1J1S;
if
Mr. Soames: There are no provisions in official secrets 1
that organisation was chosen by competitive tenders;
when the study was started; when he expected it to be legislation relating specifically to such incidents. Service
board of inquiry reports on military incidents resulting in I
completed; and if he will place a copy in the Library of
the completed report.
Mr. Horam: The review of current licensing and
(35768] fatalities are released to the next of kin of deceased
service personnel, on request, subject to the minimum of
security requirements. I
support arrangements for Read codes will be carried out
by Silicon Bridge Research. Since it was chosen for its
particular skills and experience, at a cost below the single Armed Forces I I
tender limit, there was no competitive tender. The review
started an 4 July 1996 and is expected to be completed by
the end of October 1996. A report of its fmdings will be
placed in the Library.
Mr. Galbraith: To ask the Secretary of State for
Defence, pursuant to his answer to the bon. Member for
South Shields (Dr. Clark) of 16 May, Official Report,
column 559, if he will break down the figures for armed
forces by (a) year and (b) se,rvice for each year since
I !!
Trust and HeaJth Authorities (Debts) 1991. [35 51] i
Mr. Milburn: To ask the Secretary of State for
Health, pursuant to his answer of 23 May, Official !VIr. Soames: The strength of the Regular armed forces !
Report, column 93, if he will show the amount of bad by service, on 1 April for each year since 1991, was as J
debts and claims abandoned for each health authority follows:
in each region broken down by category for the last
three years. (33097J
Mr. Horam [holding anS’t1-’er 17 June 1996]: The -------
RNIR./yf 62.100
1991
62,100
1992 1993 1994
54,400 55,800 50.900
1995 1996
48,300
information will be placed in the Library. Army 154, 152,400 !4 .900
128. 115,900 113,400
Child Abuse Inquires
RAF
------
86.000
88.400
300.500
80.900 75.700 70.800 64,700
,1
Mr. Milburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health
what was the total cost to public funds of (a) the
indeoendent review of residential care conducted by
Total
Others’
305.100
2,;00 2.000
281,200 260.100 237.600 226.400
1.900 l. 1,000 1.000
’Locally Engaged Service Personnel. Anny figures include Gurkha s!reugt.hs.
All figures contain 311 element for personnel undergoing training,
~j.
,i
!

Lady Wagner and (b) its repof4 "Residential Care-A }

Positive Choice". [35146J Unidentified Flying Objects it
Mr. Dowis [holding an.rn!er 1 July 1996J: The
information is not available.

DEFR’lCE
Land Mines
Mr. Redmond: To ask the Secretary of State for
Defence which office within his Department deals with
sightings of unidentified flying objects.
Mr. Soames: The focal point within my Department
(35845J

for reports of sightings of unidentified flying objects is

Secretariat(Air Staff)2a.
~i. f
I
f
’

l\<1rs. Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence

how many JP233 mines were left by United Kingdom
forces at bomb dump M3 in Bahrain after the Gulf war;
and how many of them are currently owned by the United
Kingdom Government.
Mr. Soames: All JP 233 munitions in Bahrain were
returned to the UK after the Gulf war.
(35360J
Hawk Trainer Crash, Portugal
~Ir. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State
for Defence, pursuant to his answer of 18 June, Official
Report, column 416. in respect of the crash of a Hawk
trainer, when the NATO standardisation agreement came
into operation. (35691J
13 CWI30-!’.~GlIl3
Mr, Redmond: To ask the Secretary of State for
Defence if he will list by (a)date and (b)location for the
f
,,i
f
last 10 years unexplainable sightings of unidentified
flying objects received by his Department; and what f
action was subsequently taken.
Mr. Soames: My Department evaluates reports of
[35844]
I
f
"unexplained" aerial phenomena solely in order to I
establish whether they may have any defence significance.
Unless there is evidence to indicate that the UK air
defence region may have been compromised, and to date
no sighting has provided such evidence, my Department
does not investigate or seek to provide an explanation for
what was observed. The question of unexplainable
sigbtings has not therefore arisen.
 379 Oral Answers 19 JULY 1966 Oral Answers 380 381
policy. On the past occasion I described of organisations with a polit purpose questi
what I understood to be his policy. What not necessarily in accordance with Her port~
I said on that occasion is correct. Majesty’s Government’s policy. it?
The Prime Minister: I woule:.
refer my .. ’IlK
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJEt.."’TS hon. Friend to the Answers I gave to
similar Questions on 2nd March. 1965. f,
.~ ilie
being’
ir
Q1. S J. Langford-Holt asked th:
Mr. English: Is my right hon. Friend higbet
Prime Minister whether, in view of the
fact that the Secretary of State for De- aware of the letter-heading of an organisa- 2 with
Those
fence is responsible only for the air de- lion which clearly was printed after the
fence implications of the reports of last election and includes as members
unidentified flying objects, he will allocate of its political committee the names of
to a Department the duty of assessing the members of the Cabinet’!
wider imI’lications of these reports.
Tbe Prime Minister: No, Sir.
.: ;~.
The Prime Minister: If my ilon. end F!’
will send me particulars. of course I will
i. Langford-Holt: Is the Prime investigate. On previous occasions when
I~
.
both
It wi!
Techn
momt
,..,ith t
of tl. t:

Minister aware that enormous numbers I have investigated, however. I have

of these reports are coming in to the found that letter-headings and lists of
Government from people, not all of whom names down the left-hand side of some
are cranks? Would it not be appro- of th~e things have even included my
priate, without myself knowing very much name In respect of organisations from
about the origins or significance of these which I had resigned nearly two years
1
f Mr.
extren
boat
Minis1
be me
ThE
items, that somebody in the Government ago. I wiB, of course, look into the is the
at least should take a serious interest in case if m} hon. Friend will send me the into t
them? letterheading which he has in his all pa
possession. engint
The Prime Minister: These matters ’.
.~
are taken seriously when the reports
which are received are sufficiently Mr.
SHIPBUILDING Il\’I)USTRY FrieD<
detailed to enable a check to be made. .~ durini
In very many cases there are natural
phenomena, or less natural phenomena
such as balloons, aircraft, and so on.
Where it has not been possible to get a Pnme 99. Mr.
satisfactory explanation. it is usually of the Minister,
because the information has been too for the future
(MINISTERIAL
RESPONSIBILITY)
W~ofield Digby asked the
in view of the importance
proposals of the Geddes Report
:~.
..C.
very
indus!
see th
Th
of the shipbuildin!! industry effects
inadequate or imprecise for investigation. and the reception they have had from I thin
Mr. Hogg: Is it not well known that ?oth ~idesof the industry. what steps he
these unidentified flying objects are the IS takmg to ensure continuity at Govern-’ ’Ix
thing
has
chickens coming home to roost in the ment level on the transfer of responsibility of th.
ruins of the right bon. Gentleman’s from the Board of Trade to the Ministry~. that t
reputation? of Technology. . under
. . priate
The P e Minister: I seem to remem- The Prime Minister: It is the intention!
ber thinking that question rather funny to transfer to the Ministry Repo!
when it was put by the right hon. Member at the appropriate time the of Technology.
of
for Flint.West (Mr.Birch) six years ago. the staff that handles shipbuildingpart
greater
busi;.,:
DaJ
impor
Mr. ShinweD: In view of the fact that ness in the Board of Trade. The tw the C
the Opposition are always looking for Departments will also continue to main- which
mares’ nests, could not my right hon. tain after the transfer their present close . Hous(
in th.
Friend undertake this task of looking for working relations on matters of commori’
unidentified objects? concern. usual
on tbt
Mr, Digby: As the Ministry of Tech. tant 1
nology will be the fourth Ministry under . from?
MINISTERS (pOLITICAL which the industry has been in the course
ORGANISATIONS) of the last nine years, will the Prime Thl
Q8. Mr. English asked the Prime Minister be careful to see that the staff,. for m
Minister if he will instruct Ministers of is transferred at the higher levels as well: the H
the Crown to cease from membership as the lower levels. and that there is no sayin~
v,
 fESTIONS
: We have suggested to
it should assume full
’or the beacon f!"om
we are awaiting its con.
accepts our conditions
den:(Discharge Costs)
Iyle asked the Secretary
:nce whether, in view
es leading up to his
a compassionate dis.
~f
’urther consider refund-
Linden the COSt of his
) from the Queen’s Own
hlanders.
The circumstances of
;ustIfy any refund.
rs BuHding (Staff)
nd asked the Secretary
Defence from which
’s who are now working
quarters building were
~ld
’roft: From the old
War Office build-
’emises occupied by the
:>f Defence in the Gov.
reat
~ns’ George Street, and
together with a
e Metropole Building
.mberland House.
Programme
eld Digby asked the
for Defence how muc?
mding pay, he esti.
been incurred on the
programme by 1st
: and what will then
late liability on con-
DO million will
e Polaris .~i:
estimated that by next
~,~~:
pro~~:;...
ts worth neady
beenpIaced. .....~:
~
dI East
re asked the. Secre~
:e if he is satisfied with
ritish defence
.e~ion arrange.
East against the
.vin sponsored *’r
make a stateme t.
226 227 Writ/en Answers
15 JULY 1964
Mr. Tbomeycroft : Yes, but it would Writ/en Answers
228
not be in the
public Army Certificate of Education
make any detailed interest for me to
them. statement about (Ry..miners’Fees)
UnidentifieJi Flying Objects
.
50. Sir I ! :
tary of State for
. Errington 3sked the Secre-
has to increase theDefence
.
47. Mr. A. Henderson asked. what plans he
the Sec- the First Gass Army fees of examiners for
retary of State for Defence to
cation and the Senior Certificate of Edu-
extent there is co-operatiO!1
Royal Air Force and the United t.etweenwhat
the ficate of Education First Army Certi-
States tion question papers for setting examina-
Air Force with a view to
unidentified flying objects;
ascertaining the
facts relating to fiyinR saucers
formation is now available to
or other
and what in-
his depart-
dates’ papers; and whenand marking candi-
are to be made effective. such increases
Mr. Ramsden: Revised fees
Mr. H.
ment on this IIltter.
Fraser: We are
aware of fh" :’:pe mcc.
States Air Force. Some 90 per .:.: g~n~ra11y
the United
examiners for setting an
>- . . ’"!1~
nanon papers have been markIng exami-
agreed
effective from the ArmyanJ wilJ
for
Certifi-
cent of cate of Education Senior
the sightings investigated by tion held this month Test examina-
ment have had a perfectly my Depart- and from the next
planation. In the remaining rational ex- Army Certificate of Education
10 per cent examination which will be First Gass
of cases. the information November. held in
insufficient to support available was
inquiry. We have discoveredanno adequate
..
of the existence of .so-called evidence Military Personnel, Ghana
(Ex-Gratia
saucers ",
Malta (Floating Crane)
fiying
I.
tary of State far
Payments)
5 Sir E. Errington asked
the Secre.
ments he has madeDefence
48. Mr. Awben’ asked the
01 State for Def nce
crane capable of liftingwhy
Secretary
the floating
to
what arrange-
personnel who Were reimburse military
Ghana without any. ordischarged from
150
transferred from Malta tons is to be notice for their loss of any adequate,
venience; and what partpost and incon-
leaving Malta with only anto unfloatable
Gibraltar,
crane with a capacity of 60 tons; bursement has been paid of such reim.
what alternative arrangements and Majesty’s Government and by by Her
made in the port for any lifts ofhave been ernment of Ghana, the Gov-
tons required in the future. over 60 respectively.
Mr. Ramsden: I have arranged
Mr. Hay: With regard to the transfer military personnel who Were for
of the floating crane, Ghana and summarily expelled in toseconded
hon. Member to the replyI would refer the to 1961
receive tax-free
United Kingdomex-gratia
to him yesterday. which I gave from payments
’Her Majesty’s Government 5 to !200 according funds ranging from
responsibility for the internal manage. whether accompanied by theirrank
have no ta and
The families.
ment of the dockyard at Malta.arrange-
far as I am aware no alternative but so any of Government of Ghana has not
the cost of tbese ex-gratia met
pay-
ments have been made for lifts over
tons which may be required in the
Senior Aircraftman Bennett
60
ments.
future. rates.
The fOllowing table shows the
various
49. Mr. Longbottom asked the
tary of State for Defence
give permission for Seniorwhen he will
Secre- Rank
! co~g:iedl~=i~-
Aircraftman officers officers
Bennett to buy himself out of
Air Force to fulfil
sional engagements assubstantial
the Royal
profes. Colonels/
and men
Iii
and men
H.
Mr. Fraser:
a musician. Lieutenant-Colonels
...... 100
I
I I
I
200
cient trained men When there are suffi. Majors 85
to be spared. in his trade for him Captains/Lieutenanrs
Other ranks .., ...
I
75
75
170
150
150
.’

1335 Oral Answers 30 JULY 1958 Oral Answers Oral"

for the following year. and the leaflet
includes a paragraph relating specifically
to what’wives should do.
Cleethorpes (Low-Flying Aircraft)
11. Mr. Osborne asked the Secretary
of State for Air if he will investigate the
complaints from Cleethorpes of the
explained. Only a very small proportion
1336
say whether his Department has anv in-
formation which would back up.
claim and. if. so.. whether he would this
be
prepared to gIVe It to these societies?
Mr. Ward: As the hon. Member
knows. the bulk: of these reports are ’~1’ Swallow A
’\14. Mr. de Frei

,’~19..
,
are not explained. and we think that the State for Air wi
disturbance and dangers of low-flying air- ~eason
why these are not explained, too. ,
re is for a Va!
craft over that area. details of which have,JS that th",data--wehave about them is
, the lines of
been sent to him; and if he will take
steps as far as practicable to end this
not sufficient.
’"’ames Wallis.
nuisance. Mr. Chetwynd: Is there any.evidence Mr. Mason
to back up the claims that there are
Mr. Ward: I am having the complaints flying saucers? te for Air to \
’ent has conside
i vestigated and will write to my hon. tions of the Sw:
Friend. it Royal Air Fo
Biggin Hill (private and
Mr. Osborne: While thanking my right Commercial Flying) ake a statement
hon. Friend for the action he is taking, 13. Mr. Leavey asked the Secretary of ties.
may I ask him if he would be good State for Air what progress has been Mr. Ward: Tht
enough to bear in mind that mv con- made in discussions with the Minister of pt is at presen.
stituents, while recognising thai low- Transport and Civil Aviation regarding ’,research project t:
flying practice must take place. wonder the provision of facilities for private and ’the Minister of
if it could not take place from aero- commercial flying at Biggin HilI when known of the po
dromes in Scotland or Wales away from Croydon Aerodrome is closed. principle it woul,
populated areas, where it would not . to s:
cause so much nuisance? Mr. Ward: My fight hon. Friend and Ministry
_’ military requi
1 are doing our best to work out arrange-
Mr. Ward: As there is no obvious ments which will allow an approach to
cause for this complaint" I have not any- the civil firms and clubs affected by the
,’embodying it.
thing which I can send to Wales or closure of Croydon, but it is not at Mr. de Freiw
Scotland. present possible to announce a detailed gering possibiliti
only in the milit
h \ scheme.
F. . military recoI1J1ai
Mr. de reJtas : 1 t h e ngh ton.
W"ll ,

Gentleman bear in mind that my con- Mr. Leavey: I am obliged to my right commerCial field.
stituents will be very much happier if hon. Friend for that reply, but I fed sure zemarkable ’estir
this flying takes place over the eastern that he will agree that it does not take us signer as to the :0
part of the constittrency of the hon. Mem- very much further. Is he aware that there ’required for the
ber for Louth (Mr.Osborne), rather than is a suspicion of an idea that the Roya! ment, wiIl the
in the area which I represent? Air Force is being a little dog-in-the- matter again. to:
manger in its attitude regarding the use of Supply and
Unidentified Flying Objects of Biggin Hill by civilian aircraft opera- order to see if tl:
ment should be
12. Mr. Chetwynd asked the Secretary tors? Will he therefore keep at the
of State for Air what action is being subject so that we may look forward to Mr. Ward: 1
taken to ascertain the identity of uniden~ an announcement which will remove this
tified flying objects which have not ~en
recognised as meteors, bal!oons. aircraft
long-continuing doubt and ullcertainty?
Mr. Ward:I can assure my hon. Friend
deeply intereste
this kind. As tl
JLY right hon.
or satellites. that we are not being the least dog-in-the Supply is very ,
it.
Mr. ward.: We investigate all reports manger abo t We are very keen to
of unidentified flying objects as fully as help these people. . I am in . close touch
bilities of the
Member has me
’

the details allow. but I am afraid,there with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Mr. Mason:
will always be some which remain un- Transport on the ma~er.
but there are hon. Gentleman
explained because the reports are not some practical difficulties. which we shall State for Air. :
sufficiently precise. try to overcome as soon as possible. ’possibilities of
to what extent b
Mr. Chetwyod: Is the right hon. Mr. Beswick: In the course of his dis- greed that dili
Gentleman aware that a number of scien~ cussions with his right hon. Friend. wip with the United
tific societies are conducting res arch to the Minister still be C0nsidering the pOSSI- the Tight hon.
try to establish the existence of flying bility of using Hendon for light civil any preliminar;
saucers? Can the light hon. Gentleman aircraft? taken place wit
Vol. 592
Thi~ enclosure has been taken off and placed on File 64/3/1 Part A f
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:-,J.~".: 3
!::
C I can see it. All right give me a little side lighting so I can find the tree. Ok, ah,
n~ I’ve lost the tree. Ok stop. Stog, right on Hey, this is eerie! A Want to do the hot

ground, ..hoops! !::

spot on this side. This is strange! Eerie! Someone want to look at the spot
Watch or else you!ll ..alk
all over ,tem.:’!~I’ll avoid ’em sir. At
~ the
least one
is definet. !::
Thatts good. Let’s step back. And not walk over em!
put a beam on ~.Youtre gonna have to get back 10 or 15 feet. Do you see it? A Ok fine.
Come back here, someone

C Ok lights off. U (Low strange voice: He:.took this long to dock.) (Tape is silent for 28
seconds, on at 9 and 11 seconds briefly. 3 beeps at 20-2~seconds. On at 28 seconds.)
..hat
~h,
C I think it just went by. U Yeah. C Want to hit the first spot. Ok that’s
spot~number 3. Let’s go-to the b ck corner and get spot number 1. Spot number 1. Here’s
We call,

spot number 1.
right there. You fcx:used. A Fcx:used. f Ok, look at spot number
scope. A Slight increase in the light..C Slight ihcre se in
1.
Right here! Spot number 1 right here! You need some light? There it is,
light
thr gh the starlight
in’ spot. number’ 1. Let’s
go look-at spot number 2. A Spot number-2.’is right over here. Right here! See it? U ’Back-
ground voices Seven spots ne.) C Ok, when you get focused’on:it tell me when. Ok: lights

.!: . .re’re~e s.
n. Let’s ’ see what we get on it. A Slight increase. C Just a slight increase? E Try the
center. C The center spot, the who reads the ce ter? Itts, slightly
we’re
off
to
c nter~ you
it’s
right there. ’Right here. Letts mark that on the center. Ok, going get a
reading on it. Rig c there. A Ok. C Ok, tell me when you’re ready ready. A Ready! C Ok,
lights on. The center’spot l oking at’ now aren’t we1 Almost center.-.! Yes with a sl-
ight increase. C Slight increase c~~ter1 ~his
is slightly off center towards the" ah, one
~wo
all pushed back. We get
:-cabye
~
side. It’s some typ of abrasion or something
high radiac or high reading
4, depending on the point of entry. U More than a
in the ground
about a
trace.
where

.! .!: .
defl~tion
positive aftereffect? A Yes there is definetly. That’s on the center spot. Therer is an
Ye.
the

You
pine
of,
say
ah
needles are
2 to 3,
there’s at.
aftereffect. U What do s that mean? A It means when the lights are turned off, once ..e
are focused i , to allow time for for the eyes to adjust, we are getting an indication of
a heat source coming out of that cente;:-
’spot-as, ah which will shO’\.i up on a... C Hey th,....
ere’s some sort of energy; It’s hardly heat at this stage of the game. Looking directly
overhead one can see an opening in the trees plus some freshly broken pine branches on the
ground ~~derneath.
Looks like some
in
of
diameter.
them
It
c~~e
off about 15 to 20 feet up. Some small
t seither 0148 ;.;e’re getting very strange sou-
br-
anches about an inch or less
nds out of the farmer’s barnyard animals. They are verjr active making an a.....ful lot of noi-
se. A I just sa. . .’
some sort of
A Right in this position here straight
figme.ntation. C You
ahead-between
saw a
the
light?
trees,
Where?
there
Slow
it is
down,
again.
where?
C Oh
~hat!is
W’hat
A Straight
it? A He
ahead’
don’t
off that flash
k..t1C)"W
sir. Can I
oock
get
there.
someone
There
to help
it
me
is. C
here.
Oh,
C
yeah,
Yeah!
I
’It’s
see
a
it too.
strange
s~ll,red
suitch off. The
through the site~ A
lights then.
See if you can get the
have gotten quiet
li~ht
is gone now. It
It’s
Let’S-move
out through to the clearing
counting about 2 clicks,
it~s coming up. Hold on,
corning-.
back
out
star
n~.
Yeah,
:to
there!

now.
three
there
the
scoPe
e

to
W’e
on

Welte
-
l1ght, looks like mabye a quarter to half a mile, mabye further out. I’re gonna
C
edge

four
go.
Is
it.
’re..’.
of
it

The

still
We’re
~4S
approximately 120 degrees trxough the site on

the
back again? A Yes,. sir, C Oh, douse the flash~

heading
clicks,
clearing, so we can g
light’s

getting

about
still
about

getting
a
there
110-120
reading
stronger.
approximately
to’ a heading’ of 110 degrees. C AIl right let’s turn the meter
on
and

A
the
No..
4-feet
a better look at it.
the
degrees
barnyard animals
from the site
meter.

off.
it’s
off the
About 2 clicks,
stopped.
ground,
Say that aga in.
Now
and

C About 4 feet off the ground, about-IIO d~grees, getting a reading of about 4 clicks.
A Yes, sir (Heavy sound sneeze) excuse me. Now it’s died. NoW’ it’s died. ’C

7
page 4 ’. ,

C I thi~k it’s s08ething out on the ground. I think it’s something that’s something
that’s variable here. A A large tre~right over there. C He just scoped the first

It, it,:it appears t

than it has be~~ ~
ng red light ahead. A There. ’It’s"yello>l. C I Sa’" a yello...
maY,be Jloving a little bit this \lay? ~
night bird that, ~e’ve-seen. We’re about 150 to 200 yards from the site. Everything
lse’ is deathly calm. There’s no doubt about it, there’s some typ of strange flashi-

. f
tinge in it too. Weird!
Yes. It’s brighter
A Yeah. C It’s coming this \lay. It is definetly coming this ’Wayt A
It’s shooting! C Pieces Of it are shooting off. A Yeah! At
no doubt about Tt, this is ...eeeiird!
elev~~
o’clock! C There’s
A To the left. C Yeah, definetly moving left.
A Two lights. C Ok. A T’Wo l ghts. ~wo-lights at the bottom and one to the left. C
Keep th flashights-off. There’s something-
very, "very strange. Keep the headset-on.
See if it get’s any higher. Ok, giv us your reading. A A notation that this is on a
beta reading too. C It’s on a beta reading? A But the seal has been removed. C Ok.
Pieces of it are falling off it again. A It just moved to the right. C Yeah. A ff ,:
to the right! C Strange! Whe\l! Is it waggin to the left. Let’s apprpa h to the edge
of the...oods
we’re
up there. Can ~Re;do
looking at the thing. We’re
...ith
out lights?
probably, 2 or
Let’s
3
do
hundred
it carefully. Come on.
yards a...ay.
It looks
Ok,
like an eye wi~~ing at you. It’s still moving fr m side to side. And \lhen you p t the
Star Scope 6n it, it it, sort of ar~s
hollow center, dark center. It’s, it’s, yeah!
Like the pupil of an eye looking at :Y..ou
and vinkin. And the flash is so bright through
~e’re
the Star Scop~ that it almost burns your eye. past the farmer~s house and are
across in the next field. NO\< >le have multiple sightings of up to five lights with a
similar sr~pe and orbitv But they seem to be steady now, rather thana pulsating or
glo~ \lith a red flash. We just crosse .
the crick. A Here we go, ah strong wind.
C And, ah we’re getting what kind of readings now. Clicks. C Getting 3 good clicks
on the meter and we’re seeing strange lights ,in the-sky. At 2’:44
we’re at the far side
of the farmer’s, second farmer’s field" and made sighting again about 110 degrees.
This looks like it’s clear out to the coast. It’s right on the horizon. Noves about a
bit and flashes from,time to time. Still steady or red’ in’ color. Also after negative
readings in, the center. We feel that we’re picking up slight readings, ah 4 or 5iclic~
s nO\< on the meter. C 3105 \Ie see strange, ah, strobe like flashes to the, ah,’ra.ther
sporadic but there’s-definetly something there,: some kind of phenomena. 3:05 at about
, ah 10 degrees ,horizon, ah directly north, we’ve got 2 strange objects, ah, half
on shaped, vents L~
the back >lith colored lights on them. But, ah get’s to be about
mo-
S,ta 10 miles out, maybe less. The half moons have nO’l turned into full circles. It
looks like it vas eclips d there for a minute or two. Mean...hile
it’s 3:15. Naw we’ve
got an object ’~bOtlt":10’,:degrees directly south. The one’s to the north are moving I
w
S moving away from us. . It’s ~m ving only. U It’s moving out fast. A There’s one on
ane-
the right’s heading a~ay-too! C Yea’h, they’r both heading north. Hey! Here! Here he
comes from the south! He’s coming toward us naw. U Oh shit. C Now we’re observing \lhat
appears to be a beam coming on ta the ground. This is unreaiT 3130, it’S nearly 3:30
and the objects are still in the sky, allthough the one to the south looks like it’s
loosing a little bit of altitude. ~e’re
turning around and heading back towards the
base. The object to the south is still beaming do’Wn lie;hts to the ground. 0400 hours
one object still hovering over woodbridge base at about 5 to 10 degrees off the hori-
zon. Still moving erratic and similar lights and beaming dow~
bits of fire.

8
 ~k Pope is the Nick Pope: I was interested, it
sounded fascinating, but I was
written partly for the
department as a whole,

" ,, former head of the quite keen to get out of myoid job. although my immediate
superiors didn’t
UFO:Did you have any previous appreciate what was
Ministry of interest in the UFO phenomenon going on.Yet I felt that

I I>
;:\;"1-:~i.t,!i!tj1~s.-
I Defence UFO office
SEC(AS)2a. In this
astonishing interview
he reveals how he
prior to joining Sec(AS)2a?

Nick Pope: Very minimal. I had

seen a couple of documentaries,

’BermudaTriangle’. I knew very

battled against a tidal
wave of bureaucracy
"!!j~(: within Whitehall, the
problems he faced in
trying to organise a
professional research
effort and explains
perhaps other people in
the Ministry civiJ
servants, RAP
-
personnel- would read
read a Charles Berlitz book on the it and say yes there- -
is something to the
little about the subject and went in subject.
with a clean slate so-to-speak.
UFO: When you
-
UFO: Open Skies, Closed Minds decided to pen the
why did you write the book? book, was there any
internal pressure placed
Nick Pope: I had become increas- on you to cease the PCB without any problems, yet
ingly convinced in my three year
tour of duty in Sec(AS)2a that
researching? a book on UFOs gets everyone up
in arms?
there was an extraterrestrial
explanation behind some of the
Nick Pope: There was a faction
that certainly didn’t want the book UFO: Did that decision provide
UFO sightings, but I had been to appear. I submitted the text to
consistently unable to convince my the Publication Clearance Branch.
you with any insight into how
Whitehall as a whole views the
bosses of the fact.
I no longer work This department operates to clear subject? And indeed was there a
for Sec(AS)2a, but I felt there was books such as those which have conflict for example between
still a great deal of work to be appeared recently on the GuJfWar.
done. There is a very real phenom- To my utter amazement and for - ’public expos ’ and a loyalty to

his belief that some -

enon here not appreciated by the the first time to my knowledge - your employees?
rest of the department and by the the manuscript was returned with a Nick Pope: On the loyalty point,
UFOs are indeed of public as a whole. Not many
people other than those outside the
short letter. many people have said, isn’t this
against the Official Secrets Act?,
’UFO 10bbY’ eemed to know
enormous defence much more than the tabloid press.
VFO: What did the letter say. but since the Gulf War, there has
been a great change in the way in
significance... Nick Pope: It said anumber of which the Official Secrets Act has
UFO: By writing the book do you things but the quote which stunned been interpreted. There used to be a
feel you are presenting the public me most said that m manuscript blanket ban on oftc al infoonation,
with a greater insight? was "completely unacceptable to lectures and books. But since
UFO:What is Secretariat (AS)2a? MoD and quite beyond any suitable people like General Sir Peter de la
BEYOND ANY SUITABLE amendment." Billiere published his book on the
Nick Pope: It provides SJlppgrt’to AMENDMENT Gulf War and SAS operations other
the RAF and works as a link UFO: How did you react to that? people believed if the Commander-
between the RAF on one hand and Nick Pope:Yes, I fe!tit was a way in-Chief of British forces in the
Defence Ministers on the other, but of pushing the subject into the Nick Pope:With absolute -
Gulf can write his book I can too.
also assists the public and press. It public domain.A way perhaps of amazement. I have seen some
uses briefings and releases to liaise telling the public, ’look it’s not just pretty aggressive books, particu- Returning to the first part of your
between the Service and everyone a silly headline in the Sunday larly following the Gulf War, which question, no,I don’t think it is
else. Sport’. There is something real contained some sensational indicative of a cover-up. I think
here and indeed, it does have information. I thought - well that’s some people are simply covering-
UFO:When did you join this implications for national security. amazing. How is it possible that up their ignorance of the subject:
oft1ce, and indeed, were you aware Open Skies, Closed Minds was SAS operations could go through the embarrassment factor.
of its function?
Some might believe that perhaps
Nick Pope: I’ve been in the there are structured craft penetrat-
Ministry of Defence since 1985. ing our airspace, and yes, we don’t
We are just ’posted around’ every know what they are. Thus it’s much
two or three years to acquire easier just to write the subject off.
experience. I had just finished
various duties associated with the EXTRATERRESTRIALS
Gulf War and it just so happened
that there was a vacancy which UFO:A few researchers have
privately stated to UFO Magazine
cropped up. Also in this office was
that some of the information which
a chap I had worked with quite
will be appearing in your book has
closely involving Gulf War duties
and he offered me the job. 1 was been deliberately supplied by other
aware that UFO research was one ofticials in Whitehall: is this true?
of its functions.
Nick Pope: No, not at all. Abso-
UFO: Was this the reason you
switched departments?
lutelynot.
known. some has appeared in

>-
Some of the materia! is

magazines. A few cases I actually

5
’"" ""’, ’"
WIN A 81 COpy Of
s :Qply lights in the sky, others
were obviously stmctured craft.

UFO: What recommendations

were made when these reports
were being filed?
Nick Pope:I briefed this up the
chain, and amazingl:Y my Head of
see~1ed te:>,
endorse my
NO AURORA?
UFO: If as it seems you have
doubts over AlIIvra, perhaps
America has indeed been testing
’acquired technology’ in the form
of one of its many ’black projects’
over the U.K:) And indeed, given
UPEj\j ~HjE~1 LLU~EU J"jHjU~ Readers are invited to
enter our UFO crossword
competition, carefully
the co-operation which exists
betv..’een
our closest alJies, why
prepared by Chris Mulhern
of Manchester. Two
hasn’t Washington infonned

!Jhi~,l~J.
Division
report, wa~~urprising bec~ se Whitehall?
winners will receive a
signed copy of Open
.
he was lly incredibly sceptica1. Skies, Closed Minds, by
He actually put his ignature on my Nick Pope: I think this type of
object is not being flown by the
Nick Pope.The draw will
report which all the way up to
take place on 1 st August
of the Air Staff Americans. Certainly given my
this has knowledge in respect of the testing 1996, and winners will be
do of ’black project’ aircraft, the notified bypost.
USAF would never dream of
tlying()ver the UX They would If you do not want to cut
testJlyover their own huge your magazine, a photo-
in!~rnal tanges. It would be copy is acceptable,orsend
a SAE to receive a printed
s,91pt’nnadnes~to
,!I; - test t1y over
copy, The publisher’s
9reign,,\1: space with or.without
erriliss.io~1.()~lekeeps all one’s decision isfinal.Good luck!
ards xtremely dose to one’.s ’
with th1>:;.prpjects.

.
C", , .-/

P pe:Theywould have had

apply for diplomati earance.

of the Nick Pope

will .iilppe~r
in our
eptember/OctobeGedition with
.a abundance of o t~tanding
new
fag!sand information which will
undO"ubtedly cause controversy.
Our thanks to Timothy Good for
hosting the interview.

1. Betty is there life here? (4,8)

2. Jesse Marcel was one? (5)
1. SOCOITO Policeman? (6)
4. UFOs sometimes don’t ~egister
Halt country? (10) on this? (5)
NAS~.~i$,$,ion
Init.
(2)
.. 7. Popular first name for 4 down? (3)
i~’" Canyon in CaJifornia? (8)
claims to be one? (8) 9. Common shape for UFO? (4)
space vehiCles? (7) 11. Small island on Earth? (2)Ink
soul or ft~r life? (2) 12. Most UFO sightings? (5)
.’~i~’iI5.
Target?(3),. ..... Uncommon shape for UFO’! (4)
13. I-Itunan blood type? (2)
14. Basic human transport in
’16. SAM ill’.Qu.antum Leap"!
19. Shakespearean "ids"? (3)
winter? (3) 21. Most UFOs do this? (5)
22. :Measurement of time? (2)abbr.
in Init.
out there? (4)
18. Lost’r .
. show?
20. Hynek’s Gas? (5)
24. Not many UFOs leave these’! UFO? (3)
25. Charged atolls? (4) : .., 8. Military weapon? (3) Init.
ent~ 29. Japanese UFO Group? (4) Init.
’.

~fO ’Send your to:

Magazine, (Crossword)
30, Against atomics? (2)
31. lnit.
ESA’s n7W~ateJlite? (3)
1 st, Floor, 66 Borougpgate,’ 32. Jupiter’s largest moon?

"
" "
I,.eeds,
Olley near
LS21 1 AE, England IV1exico
(2)
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Humanity’s destiny and the significance of unexplained

Paranormal Activity
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Forest (Incident)
To ask the Se;:r~tary of State for
Defence (l)’wh ~j~poQ!
e his Department made to the
report submitted.by ; Lieutenant Colonel Charles Halt
relating to events in Rendle:sham forest in December
1980: what interviews were held; and if he wi1I make a
statement; [3924 ]
(2) who assessed that the events around
\Voodbridge and RAF Bemw ers in December 1980,
R.A.F
which were reported to his Department by Lieutenant
Colonel Charles Halt were of no defence significance:
on what evidence the assessment was made: what
analysis of events was carried out; and if he wilJ make
a statement. [39249J
Mr. Soames: The report was assessed by the staff in
my Department responsible for air defence matters. Since
r.’1e
judgment was that it contained nOtjng of defence
significance no rJr ler action was taken.
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