UNI STATES

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FORNIA

BEFORE THE HONORABLE CHARLES A. LEGGE, JUDGE

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

PLAINTIFF,

VS. NO. CR 94-0276 CAL

CONNIE C. ARMSTRONG, JR' I

AND RICHARD A. FOWLES,

DEFENDANTS.

SAN ISCO, CALIFORNIA

MONDAY, JANUARY 13, 1997
VOLUME 15, PAGES 2868 - 3048

FOR PLAINTIFF:

450
SAN I CALIFORNIA 94102

BY: GEORGE D. HARDY,

RONALD D. SMETANA,
ASSISTANT

FOR CHESTER L. BROWN, ESQ.

ARMSTRONG: 2450 BROADWAY, SUITE 550
SANTA MONI CALIFORNIA 90404

SOLOMON WOLLACK,
388 MARKET STREET, SUITE 1080
SAN FRANCISCO, CALI 94111

CONTINUED ON NEXT :)

REPORTED BY: JAMES J. YEOMANS, CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER} USDC

COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION BY XSCRIBE

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, UBDe, 415 863-5179

 2885

GOVERNMENT COUNSEL COME IN, PLEASE, I NEED TO SEE THEM ABOUT A

MATTER HERE.

(PAUSE IN THE PROCEEDINGS)

THE COURT: I RECEIVED FROM THE GOVERNMENT THIS

MORNING A DOCUMENT ENTITLED, IIEX PARTE SUBMISSIONS " REGARDING

WI TNESS TERRI ROBINS.

NOW, IS SHE GOING TO BE COMING IN THIS MORNING?

MR. SMETANA: IT WAS OUR INTENT TO DO SO IF MR. HARDY

WAS IN THE PROCESS OF PRE-TRYING YESTERDAY WHEN HE DISCOVERED

THIS.

MR. HARDY: ONE CORRECTION TO THE SUBMISSION . THE

DATES ARE WRONG. APPARENTLY, IT WAS TWO YEARS AFTER THE PACT.

IT WAS 1993 AND 1994.

THE COURT: BUT NOW WHAT BOTHERS ME IS THAT SHE DOES

HAVE AND DOES KNOW OF STATEMENTS BY ARMSTRONG. YOU NOW KNOW OF

STATEMENTS BY ARMSTRONG.

MR. HARDY: WE KNOW SHE APPARENTLY DID RECORD SOME

STATEMENTS.

THE COURT: YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE STATEMENTS?

MR. SMETANA: AGAIN, WE FOUND OUT YESTERDAY AND SINCE

THIS MORNING TALKED WITH THE FBI SPECIAL AGENT INVOLVED WHO

CONFIRMED FIRST, THAT IT WAS AN INVESTIGATION OF AN ENTIRELY

DIFFERENT COMPANY.

THE COURT: HE STILL MADE STATEMENTS.

MR. SMETANA: AND, SECONDLY, SHE WAS INSTRUCTED NOT TO

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 6

ASK OR DISCUSS HAMILTON TAFT.

THE COURT: BUT SAY -- IT'S NOT JUST

THE WITNESS ITSELF I'M CONCERNED ABOUT, IT'S ALSO POSSIBLY

EXCULPATORY THINGS THAT WERE SAID. I THINK THE DEFENSE HAS A

RIGHT TO THOSE STATEMENTS BOTH BECAUSE THEY ARE, AI

STATEMENTS OF THE WITNESS AND, B, BECAUSE THEY'RE POTENTIAL

BRADY MATERIAL. I DONJT KNOW WHETHER THEY ARE OR NOT.

MR. HARDY: WE I VE NEVER SEEN THEM. WE I RE NOT

THAT CONCLUSION AT ALL, THAT'S WHY WE BROUGHT

YOUR ATTENTION.

THE HOW CAN WE GO AHEAD ROB INS?

MR. HARDY: CAN WE DO THIS? WE REVEAL THE FACT

THAT THE PAYMENT OF MONIES BY THE FBI TO TERRI ROBINS DURING

THE PER 1993 TO 1994?

THE COURT: DIRECT?

MR, HARDY: IN OUR DIRECT I OR WOULD BE LEFT TO THE

DEFENSE NOW, THEN ORDER UP ALL OF THAT/ GET IT FAXED

HERE, FEDEXED OUT HERE.

SHE'S RELEASED FROM TESTIFYING AFTER DIRECT AND

CROSS SHE BE RELEASED SUBJECT TO RECALL FOR THE

CROSS-EXAMINATION ON THOSE POINTS. IS THAT IBLE?

SO THAT WE CAN TURNOVER THE TO THE

THEY CAN REVIEW THEM, THEY CAN DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEYJRE

ISSUES WANT TO BRING UP.

THE COURT: YOU DON'T THINK IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO

JAMES ~~"~"V, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDe, 415-863-5179

 2887

ROBINS?

MR. SMETANA: WE PROPOSE TO REST OR WEDNESDAY.

WE'RE ABOUT DONE.

THE COURT: I THINK WE'RE NOW AT A POINT WE HAVE TO

TELL THE DEFENSE ABOUT THE PROBLEM. NOW, SO YOUR SUGGESTION IS

WE GO ~~~=~ WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT AND THAT THE ONLY QUESTION THEN

WOULD WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE STATEMENTS THEMSELVES?

MR. HARDY: CORRECT. TIlEY MAY NOT WANT TO GO INTO

THEM THEY LOOK AT THEM.

THE COURT! THEY MAY BE JUST TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. BUT

IT'S A PIECE OF MEAT FOR TO JUMP ALL OVER AND I

HAVE TO BE CONCERNED THAT IF SHE HAS RECORDED IT AND THEY ARE

PRODUCED AS WITNESS STATEMENTS AND WHETHER THERE'S POSSIBLY ANY

BRADY MATERIAL IN THERE. YET NONE OF US KNOW THAT.

(PROCEEDINGS HELD IN OPEN NOT PRESENT:)

THE COURT: LET THE RECORD I'VE RECEIVED THIS

A STATEMENT FROM THE GOVERNMENT WITNESS TERRI

ROBINS, AND THIS RAISES SOME ABOUT MS. ROBINS AS A

WITNESS AND'S, I GUESS, ANTICIPATED TO BE YOUR NEXT

WITNESS?

MR. HARDY: THAT'S

THE COURT: APPARENTLY, IT CAME TO LIGHT OVER THE

WEEKEND IN THE PRE-TESTIMONY BETWEEN THE

GOVERNMENT COUNSEL HERE AND MS. ROBINS, WHICH SHE WAS ASSISTING

YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 2888

THE FBI AND ANOTHER INVESTIGATION OF HAMILTON TAFT INVOLVING

COMPUTECH AND THAT SHE WAS PAID BY THE FBI FOR WHAT, I DON'T

KNOW, TIME, EXPENSES, I'M NOT SURE WHAT. SHE DID RECORD

CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. ARMSTRONG.

NOW, AS I TOLD GOVERNMENT COUNSEL, I THINK THOSE

STATEMENTS THAT SHE RECORDED HAVE TO BE PRODUCED TO THE DEFENSE

BOTH AS STATEMENTS OF THE DEFENDANT AND FOR POTENTIAL BRADY

MATERIAL. NOBODY HAS YET REVIEWED THESE. IT'S MY

UNDERSTANDING GOVERNMENT COUNSEL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THOSE

STATEMENTS, JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT THIS WEEKEND.

MR. HARDY! THAT 1 S CORRECT.

THE COURT: SO THE STATEMENTS HAVE TO BE PRODUCED. SO

THE QUESTION IS WHAT WE CAN DO WITH MS. ROBINS WHO'S COMING IN

TO TESTIFY TODAY. THE GOVERNMENT SUGGESTS - - WELL, MAYBE YOU

BETTER STATE THE SUGGESTION.

MR. HARDY: GOVERNMENT SUGGESTS THAT WE PROCEED TODAY

AND WHEN WE'VE FINISHED WITH THE TESTIMONY THAT THE PLAINTIFF

CROSS-EXAMINATION, WHATEVER CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU GO INTO,

THAT SHE BE RELEASED SUBJECT TO RECALL FOLLOWING THE REVIEW OF

THOSE STATEMENTS, SHE BE CALLED ON CROSS ON THOSE POINTS.

WE DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO GO INTO THOSE

POINTS OR NOT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THERE, BUT WE'RE RUNNING

LOW ON WITNESSES.

THE COURT: HOW SOON CAN YOU HAVE THE STATEMENTS?

MR. SMETANA: I DON'T EVEN KNOW AT THIS POINT WHAT

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 2889

THEY'RE IN, WHETHER HAVE BEEN TRANSCRIBED WHETHER

THOSE ARE JUST TAPED, WHETHER THERE'S TAPES THEY HAVE BE

THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW THE VOLUME?

MR. SMETANA: I KNOW WHAT WE IS HAVE

ONE OF THE AGENTS WHO IS HERE IN COURT IN TOUCH THE

FBI AGENTS IN DALLAS AND ARRANGE TO HAVE THOSE AND

ALONG THE WAY FIND OUT.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE APPARENTLY ENCOUNTERED IS THERE

IS APPARENTLY ICE AND SLEET IN DALLAS AND THE FBI OFFICE IS

OFFICIALLY CLOSED. AS IT HAPPENS, THE AGENT WENT IN, BUT I

GUESS THEY WERE GIVEN AN ADMINISTRATIVE DAY OFF TO THE

WEATHER, SO WE HAVE A PAGER NUMBER FOR THE FBI WE CAN

HAVE HIM PULL THAT

THE COURT: HOW SOON DO YOU THINK YOU CAN GET THE

STATEMENTS HERE, EITHER -- IN WHATEVER FORM THEY'RE IN, TAPES

OR TYPEWRITTEN FORM?

MR. SMETANA: AT A MINIMUM 1 EVEN I F THEY WERE TO

LOCATE THEM IMMEDIATELY AND SEND THEM I IT WOULD

BE TOMORROW UNTIL WE HAVE SOME - - SOME TIME BY FEDEX. THAT'S

THE FASTEST WE CAN POSSIBLY DO IT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER

THAT'S POSSIBLE.

THE COURT: THEN, OF COURSE, THE DEFENSE WOULD NEED A

REASONABLE TIME TO GO OVER THEM TO DECIDE WHAT THEY WANTED TO

WITH THEM OR DO WITH MS, ROBINS.

JAMES YEOMANS I REPORTER, USOC! 415-863-5179

 2890

MR. HARDY:" IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING WE'LL BE BREAKING,

AFTER THE GOVERNMENT FINISHES ITS WITNESSES THIS WEEK, UNTIL

THE DEFENSE BEGINS. THERE WILL BE A GOOD BIT OF TIME FOR

REVIEW AND IF NEED BE WE COULD BRING HER BACK BEFORE YOU START

YOUR CASE.

IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK THERE WILL BE A BLOCK OF TIME

FOR YOU TO REVIEW IT AND FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

MR. SABELLI: WE MAY HAVE RELEVANCE OBJECTION TO ANY

OF THIS AREA. THERE MAY BE 403 CONCERNS AS WELL, 404(B)

CONCERNS. IT MAY BE A BASIS FOR A MOTION TO SEVER ON THE PART

OF MR. FOWLES. I'M NOT SURE IT'S FAIR FOR US TO HAVE TO BEGIN

OUR CROSS-EXAMINATION WITHOUT KNOWING THE NATURE OF THIS

MATERIAL. MAYBE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN USE TO

MR. HARDY: YOUR COMMENTS SUGGEST WE HAVE SOME

INTEREST IN PUTTING SOME OF THAT MATERIAL IN AND USE IT IN SOME

WAY, WE DO NOT. WE HAVE NOT SEEN IT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN

IT AND HAVE NO INTENT USING ANY OF THAT MATERIAL.

MR. BROWN: AT THE VERY LEAST, THIS WITNESS -- WE

THINK THIS WITNESS ALREADY HAS A TREMENDOUS BIAS AND SHE

INDICATED IN HER GRAND JURY TESTIMONY 111'M UPSET, I'M ANGRY,

I'M VINDICTIVE. II NOW WE FIND OUT SHE BECAME A GOVERNMENT

INFORMANT. CERTAINLY THAT'S SOMETHING WE WOULD WANT TO BRING

UP ON CROSS-EXAMINATION.

THE COURT: I WOULD IMAGINE THAT COULD BE DONE EVEN

BEFORE YOU SEE THE STATEMENTS. WHAT I'M DEBATING HERE, SHOULD

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 2891

WE START ROBINS AT ALL, DIVIDE HER UP AS THE GOVERNMENT

SUGGESTS, OR THE BETTER THING TO DO IS POSTPONE HER UNTIL THE

DEFENSE HAS THE INFORMATION, WHICH MEANS EVEN MAXIMUM SPEED IT

GETS HERE OVERNIGHT, YOU GET IT TOMORROW, IT'S GOING TO BE

WEDNESDAY BEFORE WE CAN DO ANYTHING WITH MS. ROBINS.

MR. BROWN: I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, FIRST

OF ALL, A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFICULTY COMPLETING THE GOVERNMENT'S

WITNESSES THIS WEEK. THINK THROUGH THURSDAY WE'D BE ABLE TO

COMPLETE WHATEVER, WOULDN'T YOU THINK? IT SEEMED THAT WAY. I

WOULD LIKE JUST A MOMENT OR TWO TO CONFER WITH COUNSEL.

THE COURT: APPARENTLY J THE JURORS AREN'T ALL HERE

YET.

MR. BROWN: IF WE COULD HAVE A FEW MOMENTS.

THE COURT: GO AHEAD AND CONSm...T.

(PAUSE IN THE PROCEEDINGS)

MR. BROWN: YOUR HONOR, WE'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF

DISCUSSING IT AND IF WE DID A LITTLE RESEARCH FOR A FEW

MOMENTS, WHAT -- THE FIRST THING I'M GOING TO SAY, I THINK,

THERE ARE SOME CASES TO SUPPORT WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY.

THE FIRST MOTION WE WOULD MAKE WOULD BE THAT THE

WITNESS BE EXCLUDED ENTIRELY. THIS COMPUCHECK WE'RE TRYING TO

SET UP THE TIME FRAME. I'M EVEN WONDERING IF IT WAS COMPUCHECK

AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF MR. SMETANA OR MR. HARDY KNOWS AT THIS

POINT, BUT I'M WONDERING IF SHE WAS REALLY INVESTIGATING

COMPUCHECK OR THERE WAS A SPILLOVER HER EFFORTS WERE FOR THIS

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 2892

MATTER.

THE COURT: THAT'S THE ISSUE, THAT'S PART OF THE

QUESTION. NOW, MY FEELING, JUST AS I'M THINKING ABOUT IT, IT'S

NOT FAIR TO THE DEFENSE TO HAVE THEM HAVE TO TAKE MS. ROBINS ON

CROSS AND TIPTOE AROUND THE QUESTION WITHOUT KNOWING THE WHOLE

STORY, THAT YOU GOT THE -- KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. AND BY THE

WHOLE STORY, I MEAN, CERTAINLY THE RECORDED STATEMENTS BEFORE

YOU CROSS-EXAMINE.

MR. BROWN: I AGREE WITH YOU.

THE COURT: I THINK

MR. BROWN: BUT I'M GOING ONE STEP BEYOND THAT FOR MY

FIRST INITIAL DISCUSSION WITH THE COURT. IN THE PREPARATION

OUR DEFENSE, IN AND ANALYZING ALL THESE CASES AND RECEIVING ALL

THE WORK THE GOVERNMENT DID SO NICELY IN ALL THESE BINDERS AND

BOOKS AND LOOKING AT ALL THE 302'S, WE HAD TWO 302'S FROM THIS

WITNESS. SHE GAVE A COUPLE OF DEPOSITIONS AT OR ABOUT THIS

TIME AND SHE HAD GRAND JURY TESTIMONY. IT'S NOT MENTIONED

ANYWHERE. THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT EITHER. SHE'S MISLED THE

GOVERNMENT. SHE S MI SLED EVERYBODY.

J AND WE WERE NOT ABLE TO

TAKE THIS INTO ACCOUNT IN PREPARATION OF OUR DEFENSE.

I REALLY THINK SHE NOT BE ALLOWED TO TESTIFY.

THE COURT: I'M NOT GOING TO GO THAT FAR UNTIL I SEE

WHAT IT IS. IT MAY BE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS

CASE AT ALL, BUT I'M NOT PREPARED TO STRIKE HER, BUT CERTAINLY

NOT GOING TO FORCE YOU FOLKS TO DO YOUR CROSS BEFORE YOU HAVE A

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-B63-5179

 2893

LITTLE , AND THAT RAISES THE ABOUT I

SHOULD LET HER ON BEFORE THAT OCCURS, TOO.

MS. LEARY: WE JOIN IN MR. BROWN'S MOTION.

THE COURT: IS THERE A MOTION? WHAT'S THE MOTION?

MS. LEARY: THE MOTION IS EXCLUDE HER AS WITNESS

ON DUE PROCESS GROUNDS, SPECIFICALLY ON BRADY GROUNDS.

THE COURT: WE DON'T KNOW WE HAVE ANY BRADY.

MS. LEARY: WE KNOW THIS WOMEN PARTICIPATED IN AN

INVESTIGATION OF MR. I POSSIBLY MR. FOWLES I

WE HOPE NOT. THE FACT THAT INVESTIGATION DIDN'T RESULT IN

ANYTHING, MAYBE ON ITS FACE BRADY, CERTAINLY IT'S IMPEACHMENT

MATERIAL AND THAT IS A TYPE OF BRADY MATERIAL, THIS RAISES SOME

GRAVE DUE PROCESS CONCERNS.

THIS PERSON HAS HAD CONSTANT CONTACT WITH THE FBI AND

WITH THE GOVERNMENT. 'S TESTIFIED BEFORE THE JURY, AT

NO INDICATING

THE COURT: GRAND JURY WHERE, IN TEXAS?

MS. LEARY: MR. SMETANA AND MR. YAMAGUCHI DIRECTED

THAT JURY TESTIMONY. SHE AT NO POINT INDICATED --

THE COURT: YOU HAVE THAT

MS. LEARY: WE DO. THIS GRAVE DUE

CONCERNS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT EXTREMELY SHE

MUST HAVE MET WITH MR. YAMAGUCHI, AND MR. SMETANA AT POINT

DIVULGES THIS TYPE INFORMATION.

IN FACT, I HAVE A LIST OF IN LIMINE MOTIONS I'D LIKE

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863 5179

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TO MAKE ABOUT HER TESTIMONY TODAY THAT'S THIS,

WHO IS MORE THAN WILLING TO BEND THE TRUTH IN AN

AGGRESSIVE WAY.

AND I THINK THIS IS AN EXTREMELY UPSETTING EXAMPLE OF

THE EXTENT TO WHICH SHE IS IN MR. ARMSTRONG

AND BY IMPLICATION OF MR. FOWLES. AND I WOULD MOVE TO STRIKE

THE TESTIMONY OF SOMEBODY WHO WITHHELD THIS OF INFORMATION

FOR THIS PERIOD OF TIME.

THE COURT: I'M NOT PREPARED TO FAR. BECAUSE

SHE MAY HAVE, QUOTE, "WITHHELD, II AS YOU IT, MAY BE

SOMETHING THAT IS TOTALLY NOT TANGENTIAL BUT TOTALLY IRRELEVANT

TO AN ENTIRE DIFFERENT MATTER.

I'M NOT PREPARED TO SAY IT IS OR ISN'T, BUT I DO THINK

THAT I SHOULD NOT LET MS. ROBINS TESTIFY HERE TODAY UNTIL

RE READY TO CROSS.

L YOU HAVE

THE WHOLE STORY. AND ONCE YOU THE AND THEN,

I YOU CAN RENEW YOUR MOTION THINK

TO BE A WITNESS AT ALL.

MS. LEARY: THERE'S TWO THINGS WE HER

STAND NOW AND VOIR DIRE HER OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE THE

JURy WHAT SHE DID, WHAT THE STATEMENTS WERE, AND TRY F

WHAT THE RELEVANCE ON THAT BASIS.

WE CAN ASK THE GOVERNMENT 1 ALSO, I WHAT

KNOW ABOUT THE COMPUCHECK, INVESTIGATION; WHO INITIATED, WAS IT

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDe, 415-863-5179

 2895

} OUT OF TO WHAT EXTENT THESE GENTLEMEN WERE

WERE INVOLVED, IF THE TWO INVESTIGATIONS WERE

COMBINED IN SOME WAY AND SHE KEPT THAT INFORMATION FROM THEM.

THE COURT: AREN'T YOU GOING TO KNOW BETTER WHEN

SEE THE ?

MS. WE MAY, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY GET A PIECE

OF IT NOW HAVING HER ON THE STAND, VOIR DIRE HER ON THE

MR. I THINK I JUST TO MAKE RECORD I MY

COMPUCHECK WAS A SEPARATE INVESTIGATION IN

DALLAS. 'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE PLAYED A ROLE IN OR

HAD ANY WITH. I NEED TO SPEAK ONLY BECAUSE 1'M THE ONE

WHO'S BEEN WITH CASE THE LONGEST. MR. HARDY A FAIRLY

RECENT ADDITION.

WE'VE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN COMPUCHECK INVESTIGATION.

I DON'T KNOW IT'S CURRENT STATUS, IF IT'S STILL AN OPEN

INVESTIGATION, I BELIEVE IT IS. JUST FROM MY THIS

MORNING, TO MY KNOWLEDGE THEY'RE TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE

THIS MORNING I REVIEWED A COPY OF THE 10K OR

FROM SEPTEMBER OF 1993, AND THAT POINT MR.

HAD JUST INTEREST, SO IT IS SOME TWO YEARS

THE TAFT.

MS. LEARY: THE GOVERNMENT KNOW WHETHER NOT

MR. MURPHY WAS INVOLVED IN THAT INVESTIGATION?

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, usnc, 415-863-5179

 COURT

·Ul"\lDIT"Y:ft:'ln ...,. DISTRICT OF

BEFORE THE HONORABLE CHARLES A. LEGGE, JUDGE

UNITED OF

PLAINTIFF I

CR 94-0276 CAL

CONNIE C. ARMSTRONG, JR. I

AND A. FOWLES I

SAN FORNIA
MONDAY, JANUARY 27, 1997
VOLUME 19 PAGES 3441 - 36391

PLAINTIFF: MICHAEL

94102

BY: GEORGE D. HARDY,

H.'-'L, • .n...L.IJ..J D.
ASSISTANT
ATTORNEYS

FOR DEFENDANT CHESTER L. BROWN,

2450 , SUITE 0
MONICA, CALIFORNIA 90404

SOLOMON , ESQ.
388 MARKET STREET, SUITE 1080
SAN FRANCISCO, 111

CONTINUED ON NEXT PAGE:}

BY: JAMES J. YEOMANS, CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC

COMPUTERI TRANSCRIPTION BY XSCRIBE

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL , USDC, 4 -863-5179

 3446

1 THE COURT: YES. COMPUCHECK INVESTIGATION? IS THAT

2 WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? YES. THEY FILED SOME STUFF AND, I

3 GUESS, THEY GAVE IT JUST TO COUNSEL FOR MR. ARMSTRONG BECAUSE I

4 DON'T THINK MR. FOWLES IS INVOLVED IN IT, AT LEAST, FROM WHAT I

5 SAW.

6 MR . SMETANA: THE QUOTE STATEMENTS OF THE DEFENDANT

7 THAT WE HAVE AND ANY POTENTIAL BRADY THAT WE HAVE RELATE ONLY

B TO MR. ARMSTRONG AND NOT TO MR. FOWLES. THOSE HAVE BEEN

9 PROVIDED TO COUNSEL FOR MR. ARMSTRONG.

10 THE COURT: AS I SAID, I GOT A GREAT BIG BOX FRIDAY

11 AFTERNOON FULL OF MATERIAL ON THAT, SO WHAT DO YOU FOLKS WANT

12 TO DO?

13 MR . BROWN: LET'S TALK ABOUT THESE TAPES. I KNOW --

, ~

14 FIRST, I KNOW THE COURT IS PROBABLY VERY CONCERNED, I KNOW WE

15 ARE. FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, YOUR HONOR, IT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM.

16 WE'VE JUST RECEIVED -- WE HEARD ON FRIDAY, I BELIEVE,

17 AFTERNOON THAT THEY HAD FINALLY AND I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE

18 IT'S MR. SMETANA OR MR. HATCHER OR MR. HARDY'S FAULT, BUT IT'S

19 ONE GOVERNMENT AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THOSE THEORIES WORK, IT'S

20 THE ABOUT FB I IN DALLAS.

21 WHAT APPARENTLY HAS HAPPENED HERE, WHILE MR . ARMSTRONG

22 WAS CLEARLY REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL AND WHILE THERE WAS, I

23 BELIEVE, GRAND JURY GOING ON IN THIS CASE, MS. ROBINS WAS

24 ACTING AS AN INFORMANT FOR THE FBI DOWN IN DALLAS. IT REALLY

25 IS HARD TO IMAGINE, WITH THE FACT THAT SHE WAS A GRAND JURY

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863 - 5179

 3447

1 WITNESS OF THE GOVERNMENT HERE, THE FBI HERE IN LOS ANGELES DID
..
2 A NUMBER OF INTERVIEWS DOWN IN THE DALLAs AREA.

3 MR. MURPHY WENT DOWN THERE ON OCCAS I ON WE KNOW FROM

4 MR. EVERETT WHO WAS FORMALLY WORKING WITH THE GOVERNMENT

5 THAT - - ON ONE OCCASION, AT LEAST, THAT WERE SOME DALLAS AGENTS

6 THAT WORKED WITH MR. MURPHY WHEN THEY WERE IN DALLAS, THAT THIS

7 INFORMATION WASN'T KNOWN, ALTHOUGH, IT'S NOT REALLY OUR PROBLEM

8 WHETHER IT WAS COMMUNICATED TO THE SAN FRANCISCO --

9 THE COURT: IT IS YOUR PROBLEM. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO

10 DO ABOUT IT? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?

11 MR. BROWN: YOUR HONOR, WE'VE JUST RECEIVED -- LET ME

12 TELL YOU WHAT'S HAPPENED. THE GOVERNMENT - - APPARENTLY,

13 THERE'S SOME -- 35 SOME TAPES WITH 70 SOME HOURS OF INFORMATION

-,
14 ON IT.

15 THE COURT: I'VE GOT A GREAT BIG BOX, LITERALLY A BIG

16 BOX, OF MATERIAL THEY BROUGHT IN MY OFFICE FRIDAY AFTERNOON.

17 MR. BROWN: ALL WITH SOUND RECORDINGS ON THEM.

18 THE COURT: NOT ALL, SUBSTANTIAL QUANTITY OF PAPER IN

19 THERE. I'M NOT SURE QUITE WHAT IT IS. WHAT I ATTEMPTED TO DO

20 IS START WITH WHAT WAS OBVIOUSLY GREATEST INTEREST TO YOU, THAT

21 IS THE TAPES AND, I GUESS, THE OTHER STATEMENTS WHICH HAD MR.

22 ARMSTRONG ON THEM, SO --

23 MR. BROWN: I'LL TELL YOU, YOUR HONOR, WE WERE TOLD

24 THAT THERE WERE THREE HOURS WORTH OF SOUND RECORDINGS THAT

25 SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED HAMILTON TAFT. THE GOVERNMENT

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 3448

1 THE ION THAT THE THEIR'

2 THIS , INVOLVED MR.

3 ARMSTRONG BUT

4 THE COURT: I GUESS THAT'S A FAIR

5 MR . BROWN: THAT S I WE WERE AnVI SED. THESE

'6 lAM HONOR, AT LEAST SOME BRADY MATERIAL.

7 I SAYING I THINK THE GOVERNMENT WOULD

8 IN ONE OF THEIR MOTIONS THAT THEY FILED THIS MOTION ON

9 OF MIND. ASKING THAT WHATEVER INFORMATION FROM

10 THESE TAPES INDICATES MR. ARMSTRONG'S DENIAL OF ANY WRONGDOING

11 AT HAMILTON TAFT NOT BE PERMITTED TO BE ADDUCED DURING THE

12 COURSE OF THIS TRIAL.

13 THE COURT: PARDON ME A SECOND. I THINK I SEE MR.

14 SOLODOFF IN THE HALLWAY THERE.

MR. HATCHER, WOULD YOU TELL HIM THAT JUST TO BE ON

TELEPHONE STANDBY AND IF WE NEED HIM WE WILL HIM A

17 TELEPHONE CALL. HE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE BY TELEPHONE THIS WEEK.

18 GO AHEAD.

19 MR. BROWN: HONOR, FOR US TO REALLY

20 ASSESS THIS, AND I HATE TO SAY THIS, IT'S THREE HOURS, WE WERE

21 TOLD ABOUT ON FRIDAY. WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF --

22 WERE ARRIVING.

23 THE COURT: DOUBT YOU HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO LI STEN

24 TO THE TAPES. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?

25 MR. BROWN: I REALLY HATE TO SAY THIS. I THINK WE

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC/ 415-863-5179

 3449

1 NEED AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THESE AND, IF WE NEED TO TAKE A

2 DAY JUST TO REVIEW TAPES, I THINK WE NEED TO DO IT. WE

3 CAN 'T - - THE COURT - - I THINK THE COURT NEEDS TO REVIEW WHAT

4 MATERIAL IT HAS. THIS DEFINITELY HAS BRADY MATERIAL IN IT.

5 THERE'S ALL KINDS OF MOTIONS, AS THE COURT KNOWS,

6 INCLUDING MOTIONS FOR DISMISSAL THAT WE OUGHT TO PERHAPS BE

7 REGARDING THIS SITUATION.

8 THERE/S MACIA PROBLEMS BECAUSE MR. ARMSTRONG IS

9 REPRESENTED BUT COUNSEL AT A TIME WHEN THE INVEST ON

10 CLEARLY HAD FOCUSED ON HIM AND HE WAS A TARGET.

11 THERE'S A NUMBER OF OTHER REMEDIES, THE LEAST OF WHICH

12 WOULD BE TERRI ROBINS SHOULD NOT BE PERMITTED TO TESTIFY.

13 THE THE GOVERNMENT HAS ALREADY INDI THAT

14 STEP AGAIN, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO 007 I

15 MEAN, I JUST WHAT'S COULD COME OUT FOR

16 YOU? MAYBE FOR A MOTION TO DISMISS. I DON'T KNOW

17 WHETHER THEY HAVE MERIT OR NOT.

18 MR. BROWN: THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING

19 FOR.

20 THE COURT: NOT GOING TO BE WANTING TO PUT MR.

21 ARMSTRONG'S OWN STATEMENTS IN THIS CASE. BECAUSE YOU'D BE

22 DISCLOSING TO THE JURY THE FACT HE'S - OTHER INVESTIGATION IN

23 ANOTHER I WOULDN'T THINK YOU'D WANT TO DO THAT. YOUR

24 CALL, BUT THAT'S A TACTICAL

25 MR. BROWN: WE WERE TOLD AND COURT WOULD HAVB TO

I USDC, 415-863-5179
 3450

1 LOOK AT THE IN CAMERA MATERIAL.

2 THE COURT: DO I? I REALLY AM CHOKING ON THAT. IT'S

3 HOURS AND HOURS OF SITTING AND LISTENING.

4 MR. BROWN: I KNOW.

5 THE COURT: I' VB NEVER HAD ANY REASON TO QUESTION THE

6 GOVERNMENT'S GOOD FAITH WHEN THEY SAY HERE'S A TAPE THAT

7 SOMEBODY'S CONVERSATION IS ON AND THESE TAPES DON'T HAVE THAT

B PERSON ON THE TAPE AT ALL. YOU KNOW, I GENERALLY TAKE THE

9 GOVERNMENT'S WORD ON THOSE THINGS. I'VE NEVER BEEN MISLED BY

10 THE GOVERNMENT.

11 MR. BROWN: WE, YOUR HONOR, WITH ALL -- IN ALL CANDOR,

12 WERE OFFERED THESE TAPES SOMETIME LATE FRIDAY AFTERNOON,

13 MID-AFTERNOON, AND I SIMPLY ADVISED MR. SMETANA TO FAX OVER

14 THESE VARIOUS MOTIONS THAT THE COURT HAS . .

15 IN LOOKING AT THOSE MOTIONS AND COORDINATING OUR

16 WITNESSES AND GETTING READY FOR TODAY AND THE COMPLETION OF

17 THAT, WE DID NOT HAVE TIME TO BE LISTENING AND EVALUATING THREE

IB HOURS.

1·9 I HAVE WITNESSES HERE FROM OUT OF TOWN TODAY. TO DO

20 JUSTICE TO THIS INFORMATION, QUITE FRANKLY, WE WOULD NEED TO

21 TAKE TODAY TO REVIEW THESE TAPES AND DETERMINE WHAT THE

22 APPROPRIATE RESPONSE THAT WE WOULD HAVE WroTH REGARD TO THIS

23 BRADY MATERIAL AND WHATEVER OTHER INFORMATION PERTAINS TO THIS

24 CASE. THESE TAPES HAVE THREE HOURS OF COMMENTS BY - - AND

25 STATEMENTS BY THE DEFENDANT.

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863-5179

 3451

1 THE COURT: SO YOU'RE SUGGESTING YOU NEED A DAY OFF

2 TODAY TO REVIEW TAPE?

3 MR. BROWN: YES, SIR.

4 THE THE PROBLEM WITH THAT, OF COURSE, WE

5 BROUGHT THE JURY IN.

6 MR. I THE ARE ALL NOW. IS IT

7 POSS -- WELL, I'D RATHER GIVE THEM A DAY OFF TOMORROW AND I

8 SO THEY -- WELL, TODAY THEY' HERE, SO BE RUDE

9 TO THEM SIMPLY SEND THEM HOME.

10 I RATHER, IF YOU NEED A DAY OFF, TO TAKE IT OFF

11 TOMORROW OR THE NEXT DAY, BUT INTO

12 WHAT YOU'RE TO DO

I AND YOU'RE WITH

-"
14

15 MR. BROWN: WE CAN DO IT TOMORROW. I UNDERSTAND WHAT

16 THE COURT IS SAYING. I THINK WE LOOK THESE AS SOON

17 AS BECAUSE NOW WE'RE DEFENSE,

18 COULD IT AND IT MIGHT

19 COURT: I DON'T SEE HOW. I CAN'T

20 DENY YOU THE RIGHT TO DO IT.

21 MR. SMETANA: I HATE TO SUGGEST THIS AS A TEMPEST IN A

22 TEAPOT. IF COUNSEL WILL LISTEN TO THE TAPES HE'LL FIND THERE'S

23 VERY LITTLE OF SUBSTANCE, IF ANYTHING AT ALL, NOTHING THAT

24 HASN'T BEEN SAID OR HEARD

25 MS. LEARY: AS TO MR. FOWLES I WOULD MOVE FOR THE

JAMES YEOMANS, OFFICIAL REPORTER, USDC, 415-863 5179

 3452

1 TAPES AND THE WRITTEN INFORMATION.

..
2 THE COURT: 'S NOTHING ON TO MR.

4 MS. LEARY: IF INVOLVED TAFT MR.

5 FOWLES/ THERE'S ABOUT HIM IT, THEN IT'S BRADY AS TO

6 MR.

7 THE THEN IF THAT'S TRUE THEN YOU'VE GOT THE

8 GOVERNMENT/S REPRESENTATION TO YOU MR. FOWLES NOT MENT I ONE 0 I

9 AND YOUR LISTENING TO TAPES CANJT DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT.

10 MS. LEARY: I UNDERSTAND I YOUR HONOR, BUT I ASK

11 THE TAPES AND FOR THE - WHATEVER WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION EXISTS

12 SO THAT WE CAN INVESTIGATE.

13 MR. SABELLI: DOES DEPEND ON WHAT'S ON THE TAPES. THE

,.
14 STATEMENTS MADE ON THE TAPES HAVE TO DO WITH THE STRUCTURE AND

15 OVERFLOW WITHIN HAMILTON TAFT, DECISION MAKING, NOTHING

16 ABOUT MR. FOWLES. THEY MAY VERY WELL BE BRADY STATEMENTS. WE

17 DON'T KNOW WHAT STATEMENTS ARE. SIMPLY KNOWING MR. FOWLES

18 ISN'T ON THERE ISN'T ENOUGH FOR

19 MR. SMETANA: AGAIN! MY EARLIER COMMENT REALLY MADE IN

20 GOOD , THERE REALLY IS NO DETAILED DESTRUCTION OF

21 THERE'S A PASSING MENTION HERE AND THERE OF

22 HAMILTON I SORT OFI I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG HAMILTON

23 TAFT, BUT THERE'S NO IN DEPTH PLANNING MEETING THEY DID A

24 DISCUSSION OF HAPPENED TWO YEARS EARLIER.

25 THE COURT: WHAT IS FORM OF THE MATERIAL THAT YOU

YEOMANS, CIAL REPORTER, , 415-863-5179