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Comments
Garreth November 26, 2014 7:20 AM
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Gross!
As in gross miscarriage of justice and
simply: wrong.
Worse: This clearly illegal and
unconstitutional conduct was approved by
FBI managers, so there can be no claim of
lone wolf, rogue, bad apples.
Worse yet: FBI claims to be the best and a
cut above the rest. Instead, they deem
themselves a cut above the law.
The penalty should be sure, swift and very
painful. Will it happen?
Doubtful.
Roland November 26, 2014 10:13 AM
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/05/17/todash
evs-killer-no-wonder-his-identify-wassecret/
Anura November 26, 2014 12:08 PM
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warrant, so the police posed as door-todoor dog groomers and took carpet
samples while they were inside the house
to match to fibers found on the body. The
carpet samples matched, and the evidence
was used to successfully convict. I really
dislike what they are doing here, especially
since they actually broke their internet in
the first place, but I think any evidence
gathered would probably hold up in court.
vas pup November 26, 2014 12:22 PM
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https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/11/fbi_agents_pose.html
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@ Bruce,
In the preface to one of your recent books
you gave an example of a trades person
comming into your house to fix a faulty
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/11/fbi_agents_pose.html
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https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/11/fbi_agents_pose.html
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@ vas pup
2. Hotel and businesses should have
security verification procedure of the repair
guys who are not their employees. They
should know their contractors in person
(like banks know people who collect cash
for them) and in case somebody new show
up - take a picture of that person by your
phone and send to their headquarter for
verification.
Should is indeed the word here. Apparently,
Caesar's Palace management not only
approved of the warrantless search but
actively facilitated it. So much for "What
happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas".
Although it's a common technique with
criminals and LEA's alike, I doubt this will
hold up in any court unless someone pulls
the "terrorism" card.
thevoid November 27, 2014 6:09 PM
@ NobodySpecial,
Is shooting an FBI agent a crime ?
It's a fair question but first you have to ask
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/11/fbi_agents_pose.html
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another question,
"When is an FBI officer not an FBI
officer?"
To which the answer is "when they have
not identified themselves to be FBI by voice
or visable identification".
I suspect you would need to go back over
some court cases but I do remember a
case where a Federal agent in camouflage
shot a family dog, and members of the
family shot the agent and in effect got away
with it.
In the UK a rather unpleasant career
criminal that had been involved with the
gold from the Brinksmat robbery, stabed a
camouflaged police officer to death on his
property, he was found not guilty of murder.
Though he stabed somebody else at a later
time and is unlikely to see the light of day
as a free man again.
Having been a contractor in the past, it's a
question that has crossed my mind on the
odd occasion.
As far as the lawful occupier is concerned
the agent/officer/contractor is in an illegal
position even if consent to enter had
originaly been given. Because the consent
is conditional on the agent/officer posing as
a technician performing a specific function.
Thus the legal occupier seeing the
agent/officer behaving outside of that
function has as a minimum the right to
chalenge the agent/officer as well as
defend themselves against the
agent/officer and if they can, arrest and
detain what they now quite correctly regard
as an illegal intruder.
Now the weasel part of that is "self
defence" and what it means, after all
"running away" is a form of self defence,
and in some parts of the world "just shoting
an unknown person on your property" is in
quite a few cases not an action that would
lead to an arrest or charge let alone a trial.
I know of a case in Texas fairly well where
a young man from Dundee Scotland was
traveling in a taxi, he jumped out of the
moving vehical for some reason ran up a
drive way screaming for help and banged
on the front door, the property owner shot
him through the door and claimed self
defence...
I suspect that in some parts of the US that
the property owner having shot an
undercover FBI officer would fairly easily
defend their action. However, whilst they
might not suffer legal consiquences for the
shoting, I suspect that their life would
nolonger be the same, in that they would
become a marked person subject to
repeated checks / surveillance etc.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/11/fbi_agents_pose.html
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@CliveRobinson
"I suspect you would need to go back over
some court cases but I do remember a
case where a Federal agent in camouflage
shot a family dog, and members of the
family shot the agent and in effect got away
with it."
That was Ruby Ridge, where agents
proceeded to throw an institutional temper
tantrum that involved a two man sniper
team killing the 14 yr old boy who shot the
dogs killer, wounding two more men inside
the house, and not stopping until they killed
the dead boy's mom.
More recently, an Iraq vet was shot inside
his own house in Tucson in the last couple
of years for shooting back at agents who
had just killed his dog. An unknown had
claimed the vet was a dealer...and as it
turned out he was innocent. 'Swatting' is
something of a sport for the real drug
dealers.
Summary: There are really very few
policemen left over here in the U.S., I like
and respect those few that still hold out to
remain policemen, but most seem to
behave more like an occupying force.
anonymous December 2, 2014 8:53 AM
See, also
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/20
09/10/evil_maid_attac.html "Evil Maid"
Attacks on Encrypted Hard Drives
Paula Thomas December 3, 2014 1:04
PM
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