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Retributionistheonlywaytoachievejusticeforgivenessmerelycomestotermswithaloss.

Athirstforjustice[,athirsttofillaholeinonesselves,]isasingrainedto
humannatureasisgreedindeed,theyareessentiallythe
same
.Allpainisfeltas
alosslossofsecurity,lossofcontentment,lossofmaterialwealth,etcetera
andtheselossescanleavemetaphoricalholesinonesself.Justiceissimply
thoseholesbeingfilledinonewayoranother.Nowthatjusticehasbeendefined,
itsclearthatretributionistheonlywaytoactuallyachievejustice,becausea
holemustbefilledwiththesametypeofthingthatwasremovedifcontentment
waslost,contentmentmustbereplaced,andifmaterialwealthwaslost,material
wealthmustbereplaced.Whatisforgiveness?Canforgivenessreplace
somethingitisnot?Forgivenessdoesnotfillholes,andthuscannotachieve
justice.Allforgivenessdoesisallowsomeonetoacceptalossandmoveon.

PeterFisher,MatthieuRada,JohnMcCormick,VictoriaGuyse,TristenGamboa,ColeMilord,LianaGoldberg

Religion:
Christianity
consequencesnotvengeance
inthereligionofchristianitysearchingthroughthescripturesitdoesnotaccept
vengeance
Exodus21:2325,
Butifthereisanyfurtherinjurythenyoushall
appointasapenaltylifeforlife,eyeforeye,toothfortoothetc.becauseofmens
fallennatureandtheirhardenofheartsgodestablishedalawgiventomenthat
if
someonetakessomeone'slifethentheappointedjudgemayseefittotakethelife
ofthemurderer.
Matthew5:3845,inquotingthepreviouspassagejesusisnotsomuch
correctingbutperfectingtheemeaningofeyeforaneyeandtoothforatoothand
Iquote,Youhaveheardthatitwassaid,ANEYEFORANEYE,ANDA
TOOTHFORATOOTH,(Exodus21:2325),ButIsaytoyou,donotresistan
evilpersonbutwhoeverslapsyouonyourrightcheekturntheothertohim
alsoinmyconclusiononthereligionofChristianityrevengewasforthose
whowereguilty
selfcontrolisinthewillnottheemotion
Islam
infidelofthosethatdonotwanttoconverttobeingmuslim
violenceisonlyintendedinselfdefense
HumanNature:
revengecanalsoputoutamessageacrosstobeseenasequal,Lariots,
Holocaust.
inhierarchyofcreationplants,animals,andhumanbeings,theplantsareliving
creaturesbutpossessnointelligence,theanimalsareahigherintelligencespecies
thanplantsbuttheyonlygoofftheirinstinctshumans,althougharealso
instinctualbeingsalsopossessasoulwhichgivesthemawillandthroughthat
theycanchoosenottoactonthoseimpulsesbuttherearetimeswherehuman

beingsdonotactonimpulseandsimplytakerevengeonthosethathavehurt
themsuchas..
isthetheyautomaticthingtodowhenyouwanttobeheardorseenequal
reputation,forgivenessisasignofweakness
revengecanbeusedtomakeapoint,buildingupatoughreputation
thereforebecauseitchangesitbecomessubjectedandunlessyoucanprovetome
thatforgivenessissubjective
takingrevengeisinmostcasesagainstthosewhohaveharmedyou,sotherefor
theamountofpain/harmthatistakingplaceonthevictimisfairbecausetheydid
theexactsamedamageastheydidtoyou
Inorderforyoutosurviveinsocietyyoucannotletpeoplesteponyoubecause
forgivenesscanbeseenasasignofweakness.Forexample,whenoneisplaced
inprisontheyaremoreinclinedtobepickedoniftheyarenotinshapewhich
willincreasetheamountofdangerthatthatpersonmayreceive.Whereas,an
individualwhoappearsstrongorhasabadreputationwillhavealowerchanceof
beingharassed.So,notonlydoesthisprovethatitmayhelpotherswiththeir
confidencelevelbutitalsosomewhatprovidesassurednessandsafetyforthat
person.
"I'mnotoutforrevenge,Ijustwanttomakesurethisdoesn'thappentosomeone
else",clearlyspokenbyourownPresidentGeorgeW.Bushthroughthiswecan
seethatevenourcountries`leadersharedthesamebeliefsasothersinourworld.
Somechooserevengetogetbackatthosewhohavecausedthempain,however,
thereareothersthattakerevengebecauseeitheralovedoneoranotheroftheir
kindhasbeennegativelyaffectedforexample,theLAriotstherewasareason
whytheafricanamericansreactedinsuchagravemannertheydiditoutof
protectionanddefendingtheirownhonor,tonotbeseenaslessbuttobeseenas
equal
"Oursisanationthatdoesnotseekrevenge,butwedoseekjustice."
Justiceis
revenge.

Sometimeswhenpeopletakerevenge,theydosotogetbackatanotherperson,
andpassthelineofjustice(orfairness).
Whentheypassthelineofjusticethey
sinkdowntotheleveloftheoffender.
Howeverwhenrevengeisusedforjustice,
whichmeansapplyingthesamepaintotheoffender,thevictimisstandingtheir
ground(standingupforthemself).Whenrevengeisusedcorrectlyforjustice,it
usuallyteachestheoffendernottodothatwrongdoingagaintosomeoneelse.
forgivenessisselfish,meaningwedoitforourselvesratherthantobenefitthe
wrongdoeralthoughsometimesitallowsclosureforthewrongdoer.
AnexampleofrevengeusedforjusticeiswhentheNavySEALsassassinated
OsamaBinLaden,asitwasusedtocreateareputationforAmericaoftoday,and
alsoavengethedeathshehadcaused.
Ifanything,"aneyeforaneye"isacheckonexcess.Itdemandsexactnessand
hasnotoleranceforrecklessness.Thewrongdoerwhocausessomeonetolosean
eyewillhavetoforfeitoneofhisownnomore,noless.
Weallwantreciprocity.
TheTempest
batterhisskull,orpaunchhimwithastake,orcuthisweasandwiththyknife.
HereCalibanistalkingabouttorturingProsperoandasyoucanalsoclearlysee
ProsperohasreallyaffectedCalibanslifetreatinghimasifheisworthlessanda
slave.Doyoubelievethatitisfairtotreatanindividualinthismanner?No,it
isnotcorrectwhichbringsmebacktothepointofrevengethereisalwaysacause
andeffecttoeverythinginlife,ProsperotookthelandofCaliban`smotherasifit
wassomethingokaytodo.AsanaudienceweknowthatProsperodoeswhatever
hewantshehaspowerbut,thatdoesn'tmeanCalibandoesnothavetherightto
standupforhimselfandtakebackwhatbelongstohim.
Prosperoisthrowntodeathwithhisbabygirlsothatotherscouldoverthrowhim,
aninnocentlyperfectking.Prosperosurvivestotauntthemandwatchthemas
theysufferabitbytryingtosurviveforaverybrieftime.Theinnocentareleft
safe,soProsperoisnotcrossinganyboundaries

KingAlonsoisdepressedthathissonispresumeddead.Prosperowouldhave
killedhimselfifMirandahadnotsurvived(MUSTQUOTETEXT)...same?
PearlHarbor:
December7,1941theEmpireofJapanattackedwithoutwarningtheU.S.Pacific
fleetinPearlHarbor,HawaiikillingmanyU.S.servicemen,sinkingand
destroyingmostofthePacificfleet.BringingtheU.S.intothesecondworldwar.
Theattackwasastrategicfailureforthejapanese(althoughtheykilledandinjured
manyU.Sservicemen.)butmanyU.S.citizensweresurprisedattheattack.
L.A.Riots:
ReginaldDennybecameanunintentionalcentralfigureinthe1992LosAngeles
riotswhenhewaspulledfromhistruckattheintersectionofFlorenceand
Normandieandbeatennearlytodeath.Fourrioters,whocametobeknownasthe
LA4,repeatedlypoundedDenny.Oneofthemhurledabrickathishead.The
imagesofDennystaggeringonhiskneesdrenchedinhisownbloodwere
broadcastlive,butDennywasthensavedbyfourGoodSamaritanswhodrove
himtothehospital.Dennyhassincelivedaprivateliferarelyseeninpublic
overthelasttwodecades.NBCconductedoneofthelastknowninterviewswith
Dennyin2002.Thequotesintheremainderofthisarticlecomefromthat
interviewandreflectDennyscandoronawiderangeofsubjects,includingrace
andtheaccountabilityoflawenforcementandpublicofficials.Duringthe
hourlongconversation,Dennywasgenerallyupbeatandtalkative.Atonlyone
pointwasheatalossforwordswhenstrugglingtoexpresshisappreciationfor
27,000getwellcards
hereceivedwhilerecoveringfromthebeating.
Somuchkindness,Icouldntbelieveit,Dennysaidofthecards.Dennyhad
savedeachandeverycard,andvowedtocarrythemtohisgrave.
Someoneelseisgoingtohavetothrowthemaway,hesaid.BecauseIwill
not.

ThoughracialtensioninLosAngeleswasarecurringthemeinthecoverageof
theriots,Dennysaidthatthepeoplewhosenthimtheletterswerenotconcerned
withrace.
Theydidntcare.Ididntcare.AndwhatwasreallycooliswhenIgotbloodin
thehospital,"Dennysaid."Didanyonechecktoseewhatcolorthatbloodwas?
Probablyred.
Sevenyearsaftertheriots,DennymovedfromCalifornia.Heenjoyslivingnear
thewater,andatthetimeofthe2002interviewwasworkingasaboatmechanic.
Henowworksforanindustrialsupplystore.
Dennysaidhestillthoughtoftheriotseveryday,andwasgratefultobealive.
Everydayusuallystartsoutasacooldeal,hesaid.Iamgoing,'Yahoo,Iam
here.'
Throughouttheinterview,Dennywasupbeat,repeatedlynotingthatmanypeople
sufferhardship.
Dennyshardshipsincludepermanentnervedamage,impairedvisionanda
constantringinginhisears.
DachauReprisals:
IntheDachauReprisals,theAmericansoldierswereclearlytheonesexacting
retributionagainsttheGermanSSguards.
Onemightarguethatthiswasnot
justicebecausethemurderedJewsweretheoneshurt,nottheAmerican
soldiers,butthetruthisthattheAmericanswerehurtaswell
,andtherewasa
lossinbothinjuries.TheJewslossisobvious:theylosttheirlives.The
Americanslosswasslightlymoresubtle.Theywerehurtbecausethey
empathizedwiththeJews,andperhapsbecausetheywereashamedofbeing
partofaspeciesthatwascapableofsuchatrocity.TheAmericansoldierslost
theirhumanitythatday.Now,asfarasjusticewasconcernedinthatact,could
forgivenesshavereallyreplacedasenseofhumanity?No.Forgivenesscould
onlyallowthemtoacceptwhattheyhadseenandmoveonwiththeirlives
feelingalittlelesshuman.Forjusticetohappen,balancewouldhavebeen

necessarytheywouldhavehadtoregaintheirsenseofhumanity.Andthey
did,bydestroyingthesourceoftheinhumanatrocityjusticewasdone,and
couldonlybedonebyretaliation.Whethertheretaliationwassufficient,
insufficient,ortoomuchisamatterforopinion,butthefactremainsthatonly
retaliationcanachievejustice.
Revengeisnotjustanaction,itisahumancharacteristic.Itisusedinmanyways
financially,physically,orcriminallywhichisallaresultofhowtheotherindividualaffected
you.Whensomeonebreaksthelawsofoursociety,thepeoplethatactuallyfollowtheselaws
automaticallywantretribution/revengefortheviolationofthosewhostepoutsideofthelaw.
Whenwefeelwehavebeenwrongedsomehowinlifetherevengethatisinherentinuswants
toletothersknowhowwe'vebeenwrongedwetendtoraiseourvoices.Forexampleinan
argumentnormallyyoudonotjusttalkcalmlyandlistentoeachother,yourinstinctistotry
andtalkoverthem,toraiseyourvoicehigherthantheresbecauseweautomaticallyfeelthatis
theonlywayfortheotherindividualtohearusout.Anotherexampleiswhenatoddleris
hungryorwantssomethingtheirinstinctistowhineorthrowatantrumbecausetheyfeelthat
istheonlywaytheycangettheirparentsattentionandmakethemrealizehowmadtheyare
fornotreceivingwhattheywereaskingfor.Asaanadultwehaveprotestssomethingtodraw
attentiontohowwerewronged,marchingprotestsinthestreets,stoppingtrafficonmajor
roads,andsetinssittinginofficestopreventpublicaccessbyotherstheseareallwaystobe
heard,tofullfilltheinheritrevengeaspectthatwehaveinourlives.Revengecanbe
measuredatdifferentlevelsbutitfillsthatholewehaveinsideforgivenessontheotherhand
maybewayofforcingustomoveonbutthatdoesnotmeanthevictimwillforgetwhathas
happenedtothem.

NYTRevengeArticle(Marshall)
Justicerequiresthatnolessthananeyecanbetakeninretaliationforalosteye,but
nomorethananeyeeither.Thisissimplyagoodstatement.Howeveritisnotaveryuseful
counterargument,itisalittleirrelevanttothecounterargumentswellbegetting.

Vengeance,itsasnaturaltothehumanspeciesasloveandsex.Thisrelatestoour
openingstatement,theparagraphjustunderourclaim.
ForemanissayingthathedoesntbelievethatthedebtMr.Woodmanseeowesto
society,andtohimpersonally,hasbeensatisfied.Thewrongdoerhasgrosslyunderpaidfor
hiscrimeandthescoreremainsunsettled.Althougharguablyincorrect,heisinagreementto
thefactthatpainreceivedshouldequalthepaincaused,notinastagnantrateofpunishment
percrime.

NYTJusticeandForgiveness