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Visuddha sattva
dasa
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El svarupa de la jiva
En 1955, en la ocasin del Karttika-vrata, niyamasena, bajo la gua del
Gaudiya Vaisnava Samiti, se celebr el Vraja Mandala-Parikrama (de 84 kosa, el
peregrinaje del rea total del Vraja-mandala). Al final del parikrama, un grupo de
elevados y prominentes sannyasis que haban tomado refugio de los divinos pies
de loto de Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada, fueron a la Sri
Keshavaji Gaudiya Math en Mathura de otras Gaudiya Maths y se reunieron todos
con Srila Prajana Kesava Maharaja. En dicha asamblea se encontraban algunos
de los ms destacados sannyasis y brahmacaris discpulos de Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati, que tambin haban estado juntos en el peregrinaje con Prajana
Kesava Maharaja. Debido a que ese da se encontraban muchos hermanos
espirituales reunidos en ese lugar, se celebr un ista-gosthi.
En ese ista-gosthi, aparte del regente del Math, Prajana Kesava Maharaja,
estaban presentes prominentes sannyasis y lderes de la Gaudiya Math tales
como: Prapujyacarana Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja, Bhakti Bhudeva Srauti
Maharaja, Bhakti Vicara Yayavara Maharaja, Bhakti Dayita Madhava Maharaja,
Narottamananda Brahmacari (posterioemente Bhakti Kamala Madhusudana
Maharaja), Mahananda Brahmacari (Bhakti Aloka Paramahamsa Maharaja), Bhakti
Vikasa Hrisikesa Maharaja, Bhakti Vijana Asrama Maharaja, Bhakti Prapana
Damodara Maharaja, y Bhakti Jivana Janardana Maharaja.
Entre ellos, Sripada Bhakti Vikasa Hrisikesa Maharaja era el ms joven, pero l era
muy inquisitivo respecto al tattva. Lleno de humildad, junto sus manos en oracin
y cortsmente dijo: Durante mucho tiempo tengo dudas con relacin al svarupa
de la jiva. Yo he investigado muchas granthas [Escrituras] de los Goswamis, y
tambin le he preguntado a mis hermanos espirituales mayores, pero hasta ahora
mi duda no ha sido aclarada. En el Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, en el contexto de
Sanatana Siksa [las instrucciones de Mahaprabhu a Sanatana Goswami], se
declara que la jiva es el nitya dasa, el eterno sirviente [sierva] de Krishna
manifestada de Su tatastha-sakti:
ragapathera ei se upaya
Se refiere al verso 8 del Captulo 5, que trata sobre Raganuga-bhakti-ritu (una mirada al camino
del apego amoroso). El sloka bengal dice asi:
jugala-carana sebi nirantara ei bhabi
anurage thakiba sadaya
sadhane bhabiba jaha siddha-dehe paba taha
raga pathera ei se upaya
Desear constantemente servir los pies de loto de Radha y Krishna con amoroso apego. Lo que
contemple durante la practica del servicio devocional, ser ciertamente alcanzado al entrar en la
perfeccin de un cuerpo espiritual. Este es el mtodo del camino del apego. [Ver la pgina 92 de la
reciente edicin inglesa publicada por mi amigo Isvara dasa; Sri Prema Bhakti-candrika-The
Moonrays ol Loving Devotion, Touchstone Media, Vrindavana, 1999. El traductor del Bengal es
Bhumipati dasa, y el traductor del Snscrito Vinode-Bihari dasa.
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Los Vaisnavas all reunidos, estuvieron extremadamente satisfechos de escuchar
tan minuciosa explicacin. Especialmente, Sripada Vikasa Hsikesa Maharaja
expres su gratitud y dijo: En verdad, estoy eternamente en deuda con Ud.,
porque hoy ha desaparecido una gran duda que tenamos desde hace mucho
tiempo.
Fin de la traduccin del artculo, aparecido en la publicacin
The true Conception of Guru-tattvaThe relation between Guru and Disciple.
Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Naraya Maharaja
Gaudiya Vedanta Publications, Mathura, 1999.
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Reflexiones y citas
En el significado del Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.16.26): Srila Prabhupada llega a una
conclusin sobre el contexto: La conclusin es que nadie cae del mundo
espiritual o el planeta Vaikuntha, porque es la morada eterna.
Adems, en el significado del Bhagavad-gita (13.20), Srila Prabhupada dice:
No importa como esas entidades vivientes o entidades superiores del
Seor Supremo se han puesto en contacto con la naturaleza material. Sin
embargo, la Suprema personalidad de Dios, sabe como, cuando y porqu eso
ocurre realmente.
Kundali dasa ha escrito un libro titulado From Vaikuntha not even the Leaves Fall,
el cual ha sido severamente criticado por sectores especficos de ISKCON que
disienten de las conclusiones y la referencias del sastra all esgrimidas sobre el
tema de la cada de la jiva de Vaikuntha. Si es cierto que de Vaikuntha no cae
ni una hoja, no debiera haber ms discusin innecesaria (prajalpa). Tras leer la
explicacin de Sridhara Maharaja los lectores habrn podido aclarar
suficientemente las dudas acerca de este asunto. Sin embargo, el mencionado
libro de nuestro hermano espiritual Kundali dasa, aunque intenta reafirmar lo que
Srila Prabhupada y los Vaisnava-acharyas han concluido sobre el asunto, ha
despertado innecesarias polmicas. En respuesta a los ataques, el 9 de Abril del
2000, apareci en la pgina Web de VNN un artculo de Kundali dasa titulado The
Conclusin, el cual puede ser fcilmente consultado. All se encuentran varias
secciones interesantes.
Preocupado con tal situacin, un tal Kiranasa escribi:
ISKCON dice que nosotros camos e Vaikuntha, pero hay muchos devotos
que dicen que nunca estuvimos all, y que nadie puede caer de Vaikuntha. As
que estoy confuso.
Entonces, de dnde venimos? Entonces, Back home, back to godhead no
tiene sentido!. Hay alguien que pueda aclararnos esto?
El libro de Kundali, In Vaikuntha not even the leaves fall, se publicita como el libro
que hay que leer para responder todas las preguntas sobre el tema de la jiva.
Personalmente, yo (Visuddha Sattva dasa, el recopilador de este artculo y el
traductor de la explicacin extraordinaria de Srila Sridhara Maharaja aqu
incluida), conozco y aprecio a Kundali dasa; l es un discpulo de Srila Prabhupada
que reside en Vrindavana, escribe libros y artculos y es bien versado en la
filosofa Gaudiya-vaisnava, pero sus libros de carcter cido y polmico (no
obstante los sealamientos veraces que l expone en la triloga Our Mission), han
causado tanto simpatas como antipatas, lo mismo que el carcter personal del
autor (diciendo que es un charlatn, un hablador etc.), quien ha tomado una
posicin extremista e irreconciliable con la misin oficial de Srila Prabhupada y
sus principales lderes. Deseo aclarar, que no me pronuncio aqu a favor ni en
contra de tales acusaciones porque ignoro sus versiones reales y, personalmente
no tengo una imagen negativa de Kundali dasa, con quien he intercambio
armoniosamente en Vrindavana tanto asuntos filosficos, como diferencias de
opinin sobre ciertos aspectos del vaisnava-siddhanta, fuera del clima agobiante
de oficialismos o crticas malsanas. No soy quien para juzgar la sinceridad o los
posibles upadis de un vaisnava. Slo acepto y comparto el principio fundamental
de sadhu-sanga de manera sana y constructiva, tratando de extraer lo mejor de
cada devoto que ha entregado su vida a tratar difundir genuinamente la misin
del Seor Chaitanya.
No obstante, en estas pginas se dice que, Los libros de Kundali muestran gran
profundidad en el tema y a todos les debe importar obtener respuestas serias y
veraces a sus preguntas. El tambin explica con gran detalle porqu Srila
Prabhupada digo ambas cosas, que nosotros habamos cado y que no habamos
cado. El cita evidencias de Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktivinoda, Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta, del sruti y smrti, y de otros acharyas como Srila Baladeva
Vidyabhusana, Srila Jiva Gosvami, Srila Rupa Gosvami, y otras fuentes genuinas.
El genio de Srila Prabhupa en sus actividades de prdica es simplemente
asombroso. Su Divina Gracia deca lo conveniente de acuerdo al tiempo, el lugar,
las circunstancias y la persona que estaba instruyendo. Su Divina Gracia saba la
situacin especfica de la jiva y lo que deba ser favorable clarificarle para su
avance espiritual, en un momento preciso, segn su condicin particular de
conciencia. Esa es la conducta perfecta de un verdadero acharya. Nosotros no
debemos ciertamente creer que las conclusiones de Prabhupada, el Prabhupadasiddhanta, demos entenderlo de esta o esta otra manera, y que sabemos que es
lo que l quiso decir en este caso o en otro caso. No. Las conclusiones de
Prabhupada son las conclusiones de Prabhupada. Punto. Deben aceptar sin
especulacin, como palabra final, sin torcimiento relativistas, es decir, vlidos
para ser aplicados a un caso y no a otro. La palabra conclusiva, la lgica
conclusiva, el siddhanta del acharya, son las palabras finales de Krishna puestas
en su boca: guru-mukha padma-vakya cittete koriya aikya, ar na koriho mane
asa: El deseo de un discpulo genuino debe ser tener su conciencia purificada por
las palabras que emanan de la boca de loto de Sri Guru. Bas.
En el artculo de VNN, Kundali dice:
Otros wallahs [otra gente] no acepta la conclusin, pero an as proclaman
adherirse a las enseanzas de Prabhupada. Qu podemos hacer por esas
personas? No lo s. Y mientras ellos rechazan la conclusin, pretenden ser ms
fieles que yo a Srila Prabhupada. Es esto Kali-yuga o qu? (La mayora de
nosotros tendemos a recordar que esta Kali-yuga es la era de disputa y
controversia, pero tendemos a olvidar que tambin es la era de hipocresa.)
Cuando mi amigo Kurma Rupa dasa confront un Swami supuestamente
erudito sobre la conclusin, el Swami, quien nos estaba acusando de estar
desviados, y de torcer las palabras de Prabhupada, dijo sin pestaear, S que
Prabhupada dijo que esa es la conclusin, pero nosotros sabemos lo que quiso
decir.
Correcto. Prabhupada no saba lo que quiso decir cuando el dijo la
conclusin pero nosotros si lo sabemos. Jai!
Sorprendente. Aqu hay una versin similar de esta lgica. Ustedes le
hablan a un cristiano y le sealan el punto de que el Seor ha ordenado en sus
diez mandamientos No matars. El cristiano hablador replica con, Nosotros
sabemos que El [Jesucristo] quiso decir. Lo cual significa que el hecho de no
matar no significa que est llanamente escrito all. Y condenados a las
personas como charlatanes, etc, etc., etc. pero cuando hablamos con las
palabras de Prabhupada, est bien. Nosotros sabemos lo que quiso decir. El
quiso decir que lo contrario a que l dijo es la conclusin. Brillante.
Y entonces, mi buen Dios, los artculos absurdos en el BTG, predicando
mayavada con un torcimiento, en vez de brahma satyam jagan mithya
enseando goloka satyam jagan mithya, tan slo para ganar una discusin o
debate. Sin que importe para nada la verdad, el siddhanta. Por qu? Porque es
Kali-yuga y la hipocresa ahora es una virtud. Escribi Prabhupada todos esos
volmenes de libros para que presentramos la filosofa mayavada en el BTG?
Sorprendente.
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The Conclusion
By Kundali dasa
EDITORIAL, Apr 9 (VNN) Srila Prabhupada has written:
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The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikunthha planet,
for it is the eternal abode. (Srimad Bhagavatam, 3.16.26 purport.)
The amazing and amusing thing is that people who fault me for my no-fall position
over the jiva issue, claim that I speculate, or relativize Prabhupada, or I deviate
from his teachings, but here he has stated clearly, so clearly that a very small
child can understand, the conclusion. So, I accept the
conclusion. What is my fault for accepting the conclusion?
Other wallahs dont accept the conclusion, yet they claim
to adhere to Prabhupadas teachings. What can be done
for such people, I dont know. And while they reject the
conclusion they claim to be more faithful to Srila
Prabhupada than me. Is this Kali-yuga or what? (Most of us
tend to remember that Kali-yuga is the age of quarrel, but
tend to forget that it is also the age of hypocrisy).
Right.
Prabhupada
doesnt
know
what he means
when he says
the
conclusion but
we know. Jai.
Right. Prabhupada doesnt know what he means when he says the conclusion
but we know. Jai.
Amazing. Here is a similar version of this logic. You are talking to a Christian and
you are pressing home the point that the Lord has ordered in His ten
commandments
Thou
shall
not
kill.
So this Christian waffler rebuts with, We know what He said, but we know what
he means. Which means that Thou shall not kill does not really mean what is
plainly written there. And we condemn such people as wafflers etc etc, etc, but
when we waffle with Prabhupadas words, it is okay. We know what he means. He
means the opposite of what he says is the conclusion. Brilliant.
And then, my good God, the absurd articles in BTG, preaching mayavada with a
twist, instead of brahma satyam jagan mithya teaching goloka satyam jagan
mithya, just to win a debate. No regard at all for the truth, for siddhanta. Why?
Because it is Kali-yuga and hypocrisy is now a virtue. Prabhupada wrote all those
volumes of books so we would present mayavada in BTG? Amazing.
As for the embarrassing book, Our Original Position well, one thing for sure,
those positioning themselves to be acaryas, whose name appear on that pathetic
work of pseudo-philosophy, had better forget about being known as an acarya.
Laughingstock is far more likely to be the title they will receive. Time is a
ruthless judge of events.
Meanwhile, I accept the conclusion, because Srila Prabhupada said it, because it
makes sense, and because it is supported by sastra. Simple.
Radhe Shyama.
ys. Kundali.
The Conclusion from the Leaves Book:
Conclusion
We have presented the conclusion of the sastra and Vaisnava acaryas. We have
also tried to reconcile the views of Srila Prabupada by reference to the preaching
and practical example of our predecessor acaryas, but in the end it is difficult to
know the mind of a great soul of Srila Prabhupadas stature. Subsequently,
everyone is free to accept whatever reasoning satisfies himself. as we have stated
in the introduction to this book, it is inconceivable that any resident of the
spiritual world could fall down to become a conditioned soul; but it is not
inconceivable that the real explanation is that conditioned souls were always
conditioned souls and that the reason for this is inconceivable.
In spite of all we have said, we believe that because Srila Prabhupada said both
things on the jiva-issue then any follower should be free to say either one or both
if he so chooses. We go along with the general understanding that preaching can
and is often different from the siddhanta and that all preaching should take into
consideration time, place, and circumstance, but everyone should know the
siddhanta.
Still, despite the siddhanta we see it as no crime if one preaches that we fell from
Vaikuntha. Either way, who can object to repeating what Srila Prabhupada said:
And so, in the end we have nothingagainst those who believe in the fall-down
theory. The real challenge is how to get out. Therefore, instead of focusing on how
we got here, we consider it real service to focus each other on how to get out.
This will surely please Srila Prabhupada and pleasing him is the key to our success
on this pat. On this note let us digest these two statements of Srila Prabhupada
and take them into our hearts:
It realy does not matter how these living entities or superior entities of the
Supreme Lord have come in contact with the material nature. The Supreme
Personality of Godhead knows, however, how and why this actually took place
(Bg. 13.20,purport)
And this from the aforementioned room conversation in London on August
17,1971:
Prabhupada: Therefore acintya. Therefore acintya, inconceivable (Pause) Chant
Hare Krsna. Dont try to understand Krsna. Simply try to love Him.
That is perfection. Thats all. You cannot understand Krsna. Nobody can
understand. Krsna Himself cannot understand Himself. Yes (Laughter) Hes so
acintya. And what to speak of us. Therefore our only business; how to love Krsna,
now to serve Krsna. Thats all. That is perfection. You cannot understand Krsna.
Nobody can. Krsna Himself cannot understand. Om Tat Sat.
Kundali Prabhu
(In Vaikuntha Not Even the Leaves
Fall)
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Kundali Prabhus book is comprehensive and should not be ignored if you are
concerned about this topic. You then owe it to yourself to study the words of our
acaryas and peacefuly execute Krsna consciousness regardless of how you chose
to understand and to whatever extent you can realize their words.
The Leaves Book comes in five waves.
First Wave: Siddhanta : 10 chapters
Second Wave: Reconcilaition : 7 chapters
Third Wave: Objections : 13 chapters
Fourth Wave: Additional Evidence : 19 chapters
Fifth Wave: Conclusion
Your servant,
Puru Das Adhikari
the entire thread of forum discussion on this topic can be found at
http://www.vnn.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000314.html
Did we fall from Vaikuntha or not? (Page 1)
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Dear Kiranasa
Hare Krsna
You wrote: Iskcon says we fell from Vaikuntha, but there are many devotees that
saying we never been there! and nobody can fall from Vaikuntha. So I am
confused. Then where are we coming from? Then Back home, back to godhead
has no meaning!Is there anyone who can clear this out?
Kundalis book
In Vaikuntha not even the leaves fall is the book to read and it answers all
questions about the jiva issue.
It should never have been banned from Iskcon, but as the reader goes trough its
pages, it becomes very clear, why Iskcon has banned this amazing book.
Its simply to embarassing to admit failure in understanding Srila Prabhupadas
books properly after so many years of pretending to be divine graces, who are
suposed to have understood and realised the conclusion of the scriptures.
Kundalis book shows his deep insight into the matter and is a must for everyone
concerned in getting serious and truthfull answers to your questions.
He also explaines in great detail why Srila Prabhupada said both, that we have
fallen and also that we did not. As you continue reading the pages, Srila
Prabhupadas amazing preaching genius becomes simply astonishing, even more
then before. Suddenly everything becomes clear and the confusion is gone.
Kundali prabhu quotes from Srila Bhaktivinoda, from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila
Prabhupada of course, from sruti and smrti, many other acaryas, Srila Baladeva
Vidyabhusana, Srila Jiva Gosvami, Srila Rupa Gosvami, and lots of evidence and
support from other genuine sources. The book is very well researched and
definitely worth its money
There is also a little more info on this site
http://members.xoom.com/kundalidasa
This book ends the confusion, or should be, but it might also not, because there
are three types of discussions vada, jalpa and vitanda.
In a vada discussion the motive of all concerned is to find the truth, this is
supposed to be the perfect and ideal discussion. The persons who engage like this
are sober and impartial about the outcome. they simply want to know what is the
truth of the matter. They are in the mood of goodness.
Jalpa is a discussion wherein one is not interested in what is said by others,
whether it has some truth or all the truth, because one simply wants to be heard.
Any other view or contribution is of no interest.
The mode of passion.
A vitanda discussion is in the mode of ignorance. In this version the truth is of no
value. One simply wants to win at all cost.
This book is for devotees who are interested in vada ( taken from the
introduction
)
Heres the list of some more of Kundalis books and where to obtain them
- The Nectar of Discrimination 300 BF
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