WORLDING

Front Cover image: Mary Barton, Dirty old studio oil and pigments on canvas 2014

Worlding
The world is essentially unfathomable and ungraspable. Our view of it is always going to be a fragment,
a construction that allows our consciousness to be in the world. We can see paintings as a way of
constructing understanding, while never complete, and never correct, they give shape to the world
(worlding the world) even as they take shape from it.
Though saturated in tradition, Painting is a medium full of ambiguity; it has a complexity of meaning that
allows it to draw on multiple areas at once. Viewing a painting is an Aesthetic experience that precipitates
criticality. The act of painting is instrumental in finding meaning; in the unconcealment of being in the
world. Leaving room for meaning and truth to emerge as an experience for the viewer.
The Patchwork Castle
For millenniums painting has been the go to art form. Archaic, a towering castle built in every style,
it is the home of a thousand generations. It has been associated with all the major changes in society,
embroiled with all the unsavoury power hierarchies and prejudices that came along with that. There are
rooms that sparkle, rooms of ergonomic clarity, and crumbling ballrooms. A colossal warren of possible
paths and dwellings. In the 20th Century its value and long standing position as the centre of the canon
has been questioned, making room for other art forms and opening up new realms of possibility for what
art is. This is all good; we have come a long way. But there are some who still hope to explore the castle.
Maybe there is something left to salvage. However, those who enter beware, if you stay in a space too
long it may collapse around you, and when that happens you may decide that an extension is needed, that
old room wasnt working anymore, your new room will need to be built with the strength of complexity.
But perhaps you will make your way to the top of the tower. Up there, teetering in the wind you can
ambitiously draw styles and building techniques from the rest of the home. Some of the foundations are a
little shaky but from here you can see the horizon.
The Horizon
This is the reason you might enter the castle in the first place. The tangled mess that is painting, its
contrasting histories, techniques and styles, builds to a horizon of complex possibilities. Its strength
is non-verbal, visual nature, which embraces complexity. A paintings beauty; the aesthetic experience,
traditional or otherwise, can generate a criticality in itself1: when a viewer perceives something as beautiful,
they are already convinced by the content of the painting, not the physical content, but the emotional felt
experience. The viewer understands through the experience, not a literal concept or lingual reasoning, but
rather a rhizomatic2 displacement of their reality into the reality of the painting.
Stacking Stones
To reach the horizon you must build. And it is in the process of constructing that we discover the
building. The world is un-concealed to us through engaging with it, in a sense we create the world by
engaging with it. We are Worlding the world3. Painting discovers worlds of understanding though our
engagement with it. I am pleased to introduce a group of artist/masons that I believe are working in
this way, letting the painting lead itself. All of the artists in this project continually experiment and have
ambitions that hold their own; resisting categorisation. They are motivated to find meaning beyond a
literal reading of the image painted. Ambitious in their complexity, their paintings tackle heavy, entangled
subjects, such as figuration, deep space, time emotional states and beauty.
Harry Zed Hughes

The Artists
Michael Armstrong
Jacob Baglin
Mary Barton
Benjamin Baker
Harry Zed Hughes
Adele Kava
Nick Ryrie
Chaohui Xie

This paragraph draws heavily on Helen Johnsons Painting is a Critical Form

2
exit points.

Deleuze and Guattari use the terms rhizome and rhizomatic as an image of thought, that allows for multiple, non-hierarchical entry and

3
Martin Heidegger popularized the term Worlding in his 1927 Being and Time to mean being-in-the-world. The idea was to use a verb signifying something ongoing
and generative, which could not be reduced to either a philosophical state or a scientific materiality. from http://worlding.org/what-in-the-world-2/

Jacob Baglin
Jacob Baglin: Go out and get someone drunk and
record them,
Harry Zed Hughes: just so you know this is an
interview
JB: Yeah that would be a good way
HZH: So why do you paint Jacob?
JB: Its simply the most exciting occupation. Every
picture is another endeavour. At the moment it
helps me to stay alive, every day, and not stop living.
Its the most exciting thing I could think of.
HZH: And are you trying to do a particular thing
when you paint?
JB: Well I am trying to do a particular thing, um is
there anything? Im not quite sure what you mean.
Like a concept? Like an idea?
HZH: For instance you go and look at a place,
maybe you could talk a bit about the process of how
that works, because thats kind of not something a
lot of people do, at VCA anyway.
JB: Yeah so I try to walk around where I live, the
most immediate, well when I dont have anything,
when im not sure what to do, I try and walk around
in the early morning or in the twilight. And just try
and find something that sticks out to me....When I
was finishing an essay on Cezanne I went for a walk
in the morning, after Id been up all night, and I
went to the tram bridge, and I found something that
ive been drawing for a couple of months and didnt
know how to do it. I went back there to draw, and
then I just took 5 steps back, I just stepped back,
and then it locked itself, it made sense as to what I
wanted to do with it. And I had been just writing
about cezan doing that, stepping two steps to the
right and the whole painting was completely, two
steps to the right and he can occupy himself for
another 3 months on the same subject. So then I
just start drawing, I try to draw it as much as I can,
I just keep on drawing everyday and then I start a
painting.

immediate, they get better but

theyre not really about being
a finished good drawing, its
about trying to investigate
and get down information,
as much information as I can
to put into the painting, or to
eliminate if its not necessary.
HZH: The essential?
JB: Yes, the essential..
the essence, THE PURE
ESSENCE.
HZH: haha
JB: Thats what Im after, I
hope so, through the portal
of my temperament and my
mind. and that allows memory
to come in as well.
HZH: So the drawing and
then adding an extra layer,
drawing and memory, helps to
find that essence?
JB: Yes absolutely, memory
is just as potent, and it gets
my mind.. its amazing to just
try and visualise an entire
scene and then try and make a painting, thats
inconceivable. to slop the stuff around so I
guess thats it..
HZH: And what is the essential? is it the structure?
JB: The structure is extremely important, the
way the composition is, it is the mathematics or
renaissance composition, something that works
in space, but then also has something else, has
connections.
HZH: Yes so its a spatial thing, and at the same
time there is the paint. So there are two areas.
JB: There are a lot more, but yes
HZH: Well, there is the physical, and also the space
you are creating..
JB: The space I am creating is obviously going to be
made out of paint, like any landscape no matter
how much it looks like a landscape is going to be
a mineral space. made out of matter. even though
landscapes that do look like landscapes are made
out of paint and your brain often cant realise that
its matter, but it is matter
HZH: Its always a trade off between the two
JB: Yes, I would like it to have them both, I
dont really want it to be like yeah thats matter,
I want it to have the illusion of space on a 2
dimensional surface and Id like for there to be
patterns, but not normal patterns, I mean patterns
of seeing, patterns as such. patterns
HZH: Between things. Like, that relates to that
and that relates to that.
JB: Yes, and I dont want them really, like that
is beside the point. and thats what the great
renaissance painters. theres patterns in the
hands: five hands going one way and one arm
going in the opposite direction, which kind of
counterpoints the whole thing. and just ignites the
imagination... for me
HZH: Talking about hands is making me think
about figures entering your landscapes at some
point. do you think they might?

HZH: So you draw for some time in the morning

and then go and paint?
JB: Yeah, and that locks [it in].. the challenge
is to make a painting that works. the drawing is

JB: Absolutely, I would love for that to happen,

its just about things jumping out for me while Im
drawing though.
HZH: Yes, it needs to be real, you cant just say I
want to put one in there, you want to feel like it is
actually in the space.

JB: Yes, it needs to fit and have something to do

with the entire thing. not just plopping a figure in.
HZH: Yes I feel like that integrity is a big thing in
your work, its strongly about this process of being
in that space.
JB: Even in the landscape, in the tram bridge at the
moment, there is so much.. so many poles! And all
these chris crossing power lines, and I cant possibly
put them all into a painting but I try and draw
them all. And then sometimes they kind of shine
when Im drawing them; they shine for attention.
thats when they really come into it. When they
pop into my brain and they need to happen while
Im drawing. and they need to be there while Im
drawing. It really gives them a life.
HZH: What do they look like when they shine?
JB: I guess I look at them and they have a thing
about them, and then it allows me to see the whole
space, while I am there drawing, it allows me to see
the whole thing more clearly.
HZH: Yes and they really are actual lines, because
they are so thin, they cut through and divide it up.
JB: Yes, I think cezanne said something about
horizontal lines, giving width. And vertical lines
giving depth. And these vertical lines of the poles
really give depth, I guess because they are points, a
point in a landscape, a pole half way between the
vanishing point and the foreground.
HZH: Yes I was painting yesterday from
photographs of my bathroom, and a first I thought
yes it has interesting light, I will not paint the tiles
themselves because thats crazy and then later when
I was painting I decided the tiles were actually a big
part of it, and that I needed to put them in, and
there are a LOT of lines. But then when I put the
lines in some kind of spatial depth thing just clicked.
All the tones were exactly the same and all I did was
scratch back into the paint with these tiny thin lines,
and then wooosh, the depth was there. so thats
intriguing, the visual cues of the picture that push
it one way.
I get stuck into rendering, sometimes get lost down
that way.
JB: Some rendering?
HZH: Yes, ill be painting listening to a podcast or
something, Ill keep fixing things up and it might..
haha.. what do you think about rendering? ..as in
gradating tones?
JB: I guess I do do that

HZH: You probably work similarly, you can work

one way or the other, the painting will tell you.
JB: I guess I try to keep things separated, and treat
them all as different parts, but sometimes it needs a
bit of something to happen.
HZH: Is there anything you found you would like
to bring into your paintings this year from going
travelling?

own work. I dont think you need to worry about

of copying, because everyone does it, its not a bad
thing. so I know you want to bring the intensity and
the greatness, but is there anything more like the
way that someone does something that you would
like to bring?
JB: Like the actual application of the paint?
HZH:Yes, there are so many different things, you

JB: Quite a lot, there is a

whole lot that came out
of that, especially a level
of quality I hope. Like
what is expected of a
picture. After seeing the
best pictures, some of
the best pictures, there
is something about the
level of quality that is
expected. I dont want to
make pictures that look
like other pictures, but try
for the quality thats in
then, that has made them
the best pictures.
And I guess, it was
strange, but I was looking
at matisse in paris and
then Dubuffet, and I
havent really seen a lot
of his work, but I saw
how much he seemed
to work them, like these
chunky grainy paintings
of his own head. And
he would work them
quite a lot. And I saw the
romanian blouse, which
was one of my favorite
paintings, a painting by
Matisse from the 40s.
And reading about him
working it for 6 months,
and this painting has
an immaculate smooth
surface, but he worked
it, he was scraping the
Rembrandt, Pilgrims at Emmaus or The Supper at Emmaus 1648
thing back, scraping it so
much, and in the white
blouse its not painted white its just the white of
may look at a particular painting and its very spatial,
or another one thats very flat and geometric
the canvas, and in between the weave theres tiny
dots of green and black, and you cant really see it
JB: Its more a feeling, or the integrity of a picture.
until you get really really close. And so there was
something about working, and not compromising,
no matter what happens. Scraping it right down
HZH: Youve seen a lot of paintings before, so
you know generally what the good paintings look
if thats necessary, and just working it. That was a
like, but seeing them in the flesh, I suppose is more
really big thing. and when I came back, the first day,
about the intensity. you kind of already know what
it must have been the day that I saw you, I had a
painting that I had worked a bit, and it was fine, I
you want to get out of painting.
was quite happy with it, but, all the time when I was
overseas I was thinking about this painting, and I
JB: Im not sure. I dont know what I want. I do
came back and the next
day I just scccrrraped
the whole thing off with
a razor blade. Down to
nothing to continue with
the same idea, and once
there is nothing again,
there is a lot of pressure
to do it better.
HZH: I really love
that first stage in my
paintings because I can
rub it back so easily, the
compositional stage, Im
rubbing it back and doing
it again and rubbing it
back and trying things out,
and its really fun.
JB: I could go on and on
about the great things that
I saw.
HZH: So there arent
any things that you would
like to bring into your

Philips Koninck, An Extensive Landscape with a Road by a River 1655

know, I just want to look at them, and try and get

some of their juice there were a couple, there was
a rembrandts self portrait, that he did it in the year
he died: and there is a light in the background that
is incredible, it comes down this very holy gentle
light coming down, and its actually in a very organic
shape in the background, that comes down over
him, and then part of this jacket is just completely
black and then his hands pop out. so its like he is
selecting areas where he would like to give them
something special.
that is something
Id like to continue.
using passages of
light. rembrandt and
constable have these
amazing passages of
light and ruysdael to
and hoberman, have
these areas of light
HZH: And these
illuminated areas of
attention
JB: And its especially
with landscape: the
landscape becomes
this ridiculous amazing
place rather than a
landscape, it becomes
something with feeling.
Also rembrandts warm
and cool thing, which
I also saw in cezannes
card players, I saw the
card players and then
I saw Rembrandts
supper at emmaus,
when he blesses the
food and hen everyone
freaks out. Its quite a
small picture, and all
the figures are very
small, like you know,
dutch genre stuff. but
that rembrandt is full
of COLOUR, that
rembrandt to me looks
like cezannes card
players. from far away
it looks reasonably grey
and tonal, and then up close in his jacket there is a
rainbow! There is a big red part, and a green section,
and then blue, and then creamy creamy yellow,
and neutrals around it. that was ridiculous! he did
something that cezanne spent his whole life doing.
HZH: And he does it in such an indescribable way.
As you say from further back you cant see it. He fits
it into the tradition of painting, but then you realise
how much it is really revolutionary.
JB: The warms and cools stand out just like a
Cezanne, and then Bathsheba was just next to it.
and that painting is
also amazing with
the warms and
cools. rembrandt just
endlessly gives, he did
everything.
And there was a
Philips Koninck called
Extensive Landscape,
that he did from his
imagination, probably
drawings I guess. and
in the foreground its
quite broad brush
strokes, then in the
mid ground its quite
detailed, and then in
the background its
broad again. And that
gives depth again. In
the way that when you
look at something in
a theoretical way as if
you were just looking
into the landscape, you
have a depth of focus.

cycladic sculpture 2000-3000BCE

HZH: Its about seeing
JB: Yes, absolutely, that is something which has
had an effect.. all these things I have been trying
to integrate them into my body, and into my mind,
but that I can try and understand intellectually, I
can think about it and then try and do it. or use it.
there is nothing I want to mimic. besides that, that is
great. I dont want to mimic that, but I want
HZH: Its another element which you can bubble
down into the soup
JB: Yep.. and youve got me on a roll now! Seeing
vincents self portrait with his ear cut off and just
to the left of it a landscape called peach trees in
blossom, and when I saw those, I thought about
Millet, the may he puts on the paint, and I thought
about Corot much more, he just exploded into my
brain.
HZH: With those peach trees I can see that, its the
betweens of the branches that have that vibrating
look that maybe you were thinking about with the
power lines. The buzzing
JB: Yes absolutely, but I when I saw them together
I thought about corot because he created his own
language, and he really fortified it when he started
doing portraits towards the end. Because with
landscape there are no rules, there is no firm holding
down of anything. But in a portrait we know faces
so well that if a nuance is out it just looks silly. so
the great test is the portrait. And that was fucking
great. And they were painted in the same year the
self portrait and the landscape. and I also thought
about the poetry. I mean: vincent painting peach
trees in blossom. What a subject. And of course
that isnt the actual subject of the painting. and he
put a japans mount fuji into the background, a little
injection of his interests.
i went back quite a few times just to look at that
duo, the self portrait and the landscape. And I was
looking at the connection between them.
And the greeks and romans and the egyptians, in the
british museum and the louvre, have had a massive
effect on me. if we just had those we would be fine.
I could just look at greek and egyptian stuff for the
rest of my life. everything else is just a bonus.
The little cycladic sculptures of women were great,
like flat faces, and just a tiny nose and all the women
have their arms crossed. and theyve been coming
into the portrait drawings ive been doing, in a very
strange way. Along with the egyptian sculptures of
big heads, with head dresses
HZH: Do you think there is something particularly
about painting, I mean as opposed to drawing as a
final area?
JB: I definitely dont have a particular connection to
paint, I could be doing anything, its just that is what
works for me the best. as far as drawing, ive been
making a portrait with tristan weve been swapping
sitting for each other twice a week for the last
month. So Im trying to make a serious drawing. and

its fantastic, its incredible, its the most direct thing

drawing, so its great for that. But then painting is
the most ambiguous possible thing. You can draw
a line with charcoal and its a line, you can draw a
line with red paint, and then its next to maybe some
green and some yellow, and it connects with all of
them, and the domino is set off. And then you put
in another color and it doesnt stop Drawing is
painting with more limited means. It really feels
quite similar.
HZH: There are more problems to figure out in
painting.
JB: And so drawing has less problems which then
creates more essential problems. problems about the
thing that I am interested in I guess: the essential
geometry and tones.
HZH: And that essentialness, is that something you
are feeling in the world which you are then trying to
connect with in your painting? how much is it that,
and how much is it that when you are painting you
are finding that essentialness? you know does it go
one way more than the other?
JB: It happens while im working, well I hope it
happens. Im sure the idea of having something true
and essential, it all dies eventually.
HZH: Its impossible but you strive to reach
towards it.
JB: Yes, but it happens sometimes after working in
something for quite a while, I find something which
seems to be true. and exciting too, you cant just let
truth get in the way.
I was thinking about the picture of the window

while I was overseas, and I found something much

more essential while I was overseas than while I was
here. And then I came back and tried to do it.
HZH: Do you know that idea that how modern
science views vision is as light coming into the eyes
but an older idea is that light comes out of the eyes,
its called emission theory, and you illuminate where
you are looking at. I think that is how the greeks
might have conceived vision. what do you think of
that?
JB: I love that! haha
HZH: I thought you might.
JB: Of course the greeks did it. theyre the best.
HZH: Yes, and I heard another theory recently
called biocentrism, the idea is that consciousness
comes before everything else and that the whole
universe exists so that our consciousness can
exist. its very unlikely that the universe ended up
producing us, that the power of it was just right, that
its not expanding too quickly or too slowly, and that
all the thousands of factors are just right for Earth
to be here. But instead of that, biocentrism gives a
hypothesis that time doesnt have to be linear, its just
the way we understand it in our consciousness, and
that the whole universe came into being to support
that consciousness.
And I feel like this may tie into the way the world
kind of illuminates and vibrates when you look at it.
You kind of make the world by looking at it.
JB: Yes absolutely, that sounds great. thats like
being sentient, the creator. were the creators
HZH: Yes, though I dont know how much control

we have...

photoshop.
Through the actual process of painting,i begin to
change them further, distort and play with these
photos, sort of deducting evidence and adding on
fabrications to a collage of memories that dont
necessarily have any direct relationship with each
other.

Adele Kava
HZH: Why do you
paint?
Adele KavAK: I
paint because Im
too verbose to use
other mediums in
communicating
an idea, but
communicating ideas
or narratives seems
to be really important
to me. The actual
process of painting
is something Im
incredibly drawn to,
and creating work
seems natural to me
as Ive been doing
it for most of my
life. Art is also an
arguably more open
system than other
narrative forms - one
that forces you to
acknowledge anyones
authorship of meaning. This forces me to be less
concerned with being didactic and more concerned
with the multitude of meanings and impressions
that I can create, which I think is a more interesting
space to exist in creating work, rather than a simple
statement, art and painting within that is defined
more as a question.
HZH: What is your relationship to figurative
painting?
AK: I have a complicated relationship with figurative
painting. I started as a completely photo-realistic
figurative painter, which I still hold my roots in,
but Ive become more interested in negotiating the
relationship between figuration and abstraction (as
well as other thematic qualities). It allows me to
create and engage with certain levels of surrealism
and familiarity which allows me to stay engaged with
the work I create through it being both familiar and
foreign visually. It also adds an element of anxiety to
making work because I cant predict how my work
will end up looking, which sounds really masochistic,
but it allows me to be involved and committed to
creating a piece until the end.
HZH: Im interested in the element of anxiety
and how you cant predict how your work will end
up looking to a certain point. do you find that the
feelings and concepts behind a particular painting
shift as youre painting it? Please tell me bout your
painting process?
AK: My painting process is pretty involved in the
internet, and I have no qualms with being labelled
as an internet artist. I begin on forums, microblog
platforms, and other social media websites to
find imagery that visually strikes me. A lot of this
content which tends to resonate with me comes
from extreme experiences of people my own
age - imagery of isolation, drunkenness, love and
lust. Most of these images come from people who
I dont know directly and who attempt to make
some kind of duration of their life or memories of
their life onto the internet, or attempt to document
others. My work is concerned with the filters that
people put onto their lives with those actions, and
the filters and distortions that I as a viewer and
creator put onto that by witnessing it and displaying
it second-hand. Mostly Im concerned with the
malleability of memory and the further distortion of
that through social media, even if that isnt directly
referenced in my paintings.
I then create a collage of these images which may
be painted or mocked up through sketches or

HZH: What makes a painting work?

AK: The audience. A painting works in whatever
way when it is
engaged with,
as minimal as
that engagement
is. An artwork
is activated
whenever a
reaction is
created from it.
No matter how
small, or how
negative that
response may be.
HZH: When
is painting
contemporary
(can it be new?)
AK: I dont
even know how
to answer this
question. I guess
that painting is
contemporary
when it concerns
itself less with form and more conceptually
with what its trying to convey. That said, I dont
believe that artwork is less contemporary because
it references older movements or traditional
techniques of painting. Movements like street art
can be viewed as contemporary as it is a language
that was given birth to in our collective streets,
a space we all share, that is influenced by many
cultures which can not be separated any more from
each other - which fits with contemporary concepts
like alter-modernism. That said, the aesthetics of it
fit into less contemporary art movements such as
lowbrow art. We exist within a very grey space of
art right now. We are the most free and also most
limited generation of artists in this ultra-connectivity
and concern with definitions of art. The definition

of contemporary art is so large that it could be

expanded to be applicable to all art within the
current time period. Perhaps everything created
right now is contemporary.
HZH: Maybe I can reframe my question about
the importance of beauty in art. Because although
your paintings have levels of surrealism, or a
fragmentation of orderly reality, they are still
what I would call beautiful, as all good paintings
are. Do you think beauty has a role to play in the
development of concept within a painting?
AK: The importance of beauty in art is contingent
on the artist and the spectator and what either of
their definitions of beauty.
For me personally its something that I enjoy
exploring. The push and pull of horror or repulsion
against attraction was one of the defining things
that made me become interested in painting. Im
interested in engaging with questions I cant resolve
cleanly. A notion like how responsible am I for
the fallibility of memory or when does a negative
emotion become a positive one might come close
to summarizing the initial concepts that I draw
upon to create work, but if I could write about it, I
probably wouldnt paint them.
I think beauty has a role to play in the development
of a concept within a painting because we
consciously and subconsciously create both
conceptual and aesthetic decisions based on comfort
and familiarity (which to me are generally indicators
of beauty) and away from them. I think that beauty
visually represents other things which are at the
centre of human existence, like love or peace or
life, and it seems natural for that to be brought out
in good art, as art creates an experience, it also calls
for us to reflect upon our experiences, sometimes
directly, sometimes indirectly.
HZH: do you find that the feelings and concepts
behind a particular painting shift as youre painting
it?
AK: Yeah I do find that the feelings and concepts
behind my paintings change. I find the process to
be very emotionally involved, and sometimes it
makes or breaks the final work. I do find that the
less attached I am to a work resolving in a certain
way (that is, the more fluid I am to to it looking in a
particular way) the better the work is.

Benjamin Baker
HZH: Why do you paint?
Benjamin Baker: I paint for a number of reasons. Firstly, that
currently I am studying painting, so I should paint right? But secondly
I paint because unfortunately I am not invincible, and so, I am unable
to outrun my demons. Ever. Therefore I find painting is an excellent
sedative, second to sex.
For me, painting is a safer way to communicate honestly with people
around me rather than say speaking. But more so I find that I am able
to use the process of painting to better navigate my internal dialogue.
I paint because I enjoy the challenge. I enjoy looking at a surface and
trying to imagine something that doesnt exist.
HZH: What is your relationship to figurative painting?
BB: Figurative painting as in paintings of a figure? Or more
specifically recognition of a figure? I dont know Its so hard to
determine when I am and when I am not painting figuratively. If it
were determined by recognition of a figure then one would say there
is almost always someone or something present in my work.
Unless I am painting a portrait from a sitter in front of me I really
prefer to just push paint around mindlessly. I find that I am much
more stimulated by the intermingling of colour and line. Whenever
I am painting figuratively I tend to be more stressed about detail
and the quality of recognition. Although I have grown to be more
comfortable with the result by thinking about the final figurative
work being viewed more as an impression of a person rather than
attempting to immortalise their being entirely.
HZH: When is painting contemporary? and can it be new?
BB: If you are a person who makes art, in this day, then you are
a contemporary artist. If you do it enough, for lots of years, and
bug people endlessly to see your point of view, you too are a
contemporary artist. If you believe that you have created something
new, you are incorrect. To be original whilst holding a paintbrush is a
thing of the past.
Unless you stood there...White knuckled, waiting
And after a few weeks you would drop dead very slowly through sepia
lensed glasses and they will say: He was painting and then you will
get SO many likes, and you will have done something new. Well Done. Yes it can
be new, but new is not necessarily original or unique.
HZH: How important is beauty in art?
I feel like its relevance in art isnt to be measured or assessed. There are far more
interesting elements in art. Whether or not art is beautiful is up to the viewer.
BB: Contemporary society now promotes a broad idea of beauty. I think this
enables a larger platform for the production of work and in turn produces a
broader mindset whilst viewing the work in question, therefore broadening the
interpretation of the work Well for some people at least.
HZH: Tell me about your painting process.
BB: I find the best way to start working is to ensure you have an efficient
workspace. All my materials are accessible around me. Normally its a hesitation
at the start. I never really know what I am doing, so that first mark is pretty hard
to make. It really is a collection of marks, following on one after the other. Each
step taken on a painting allows room for another. Until a certain point is reached
where there is a seemingly full and complete composition. When there is a whole
lot of material interacting with its surroundings I normally reach a point where I
am either too bored with the painting or I am happy with what I have produced.
Although I would say that no painting is ever finished.
HZH: What makes a painting work?
BB: I think that having a strong visual vocabulary is really important. To be able
to understand how colours interact with each other.
Time. When you observe a stagnant object and it vibrates with process.
On first glances if you are entirely unsure what it is that you are looking at,
Its even better when you still cant figure it out ten minutes and another FREE
champagne later...Also if the artist has faith in the quality of his work I believe
that can translate across to the viewer.
HZH: How does painting and the erotic relate to you?
I find that I am constantly referencing the erotic in my paintings. I think because
its something I am pretty driven by. I like experiencing the way that people react
when confronted with Erotica. Some react negatively and that only fuels my
interest. Using motifs relating to sex is a pretty common theme in my current
work. I like to disguise the shapes and actions among a composition. I enjoy
knowing that people will view my work and hopefully see the same. Plus, dicks
are hilarious.

Nick Ryrie
HZH: why did you move to painting as a medium of choice?
Nick Ryrie: Because I guess it provides immediate feedback, which is
great when you have a short attention span
HZH: when is painting contemporary? (can it be new?)
NR: Anything anyone produces in real time is contemporary, everything
is burdened by history, so whenever viewing something we are going to
read into it, this is only natural, its what you do with your thoughts, I
guess it really comes down to individual perception.
HZH: Tell me about your painting process? how much of the end of the
painting is in your sight, and what do you let shift?
NR: I begin with the end in sight, over the course of painting I might
change tones back and forth, but I try and keep it all pretty regular, thats
the point of my painting, to repeat a formula over and over, that dictates
the overall image.
HZH: What makes a painting work?
NR: Questions, space, time and gravity
HZH: When we were in your studio you spoke about avoiding literal
figurative reading in your work, why is this so?
NR: Because the experience of reality is so much more than just a specific
narrative of one person or an event, everything has an off shoot which
is linked to something else and so on. See when we look at a figure we
are mirroring ourselves, our ideas, experiences, morals and values etc, this
attracts other connotations, they may be social or political for example
and so on, what I am trying to say is that the meaning grows and opens
up. For me successful work sits outside or beyond this, in a space of nonmeaning, it almost dumbs the viewer. I find this refreshing in a world
full of meaning and control. To put it simply, I guess I put importance on
the other (earth, sea, universe etc), i feel this is the driving force behind
the work. Communication and relationships between humans becomes
complicated and distracting, detouring us from the importance of staying
connected to the land.

Michael Armstrong
Michael Armstrong: [talking about process] So I tend to
accidentally work in series. Ill obsess over an image and as I develop
that other images tend to show up. I try to move away from the photo
though. Try to move in the space between recognition of the image. In
the sense that I dont think of myself as a photorealist painter
I like to try paint the image as if I were looking at it underwater.
Harry Zed Hughes
ahh, thanks michael. It sounds like its tied in to your valuing of painting
as a slow process... and what do you think makes a painting work?
Also you mentioned moving away from the photo, what do you think
figurative painting can do that cannot be achieved in a photograph?
MA: Its intuitive. Sometimes you think you know what works and then
it stagnates
It seems to be aligned with where my mind is when Im making it.
If I try and be the painter while Im painting then the work reflects that
in a negative way
Thats largely why I stopped doing portraits from life
When you tell someone youre a painter and they take that to mean
someone who paints houses for a living. Thats a better space to work in
personally than trying to position yourself with all the hero painters of
history.
HZH: You work in abstract as well as semi figurative styles, what do you
find separates them from one another? Or what are the differing areas
of of thought that you are mindful of between the two?

MA: It comes from working from old photos of people and trying
to move away from a depiction of specific individuals. The abstract
element in my work is to give a universal. Less moments in time and
more roles people identify with. Its exchange between people and in
themselves that Im interested in. The abstraction and colour is used for
that reason. But I dont identify as an abstract painter.

H: You paint some abstract paintings though?

MA:They always start from an image. Some end
up more abstract than others but I never set out to
paint abstract. Sometimes I just stop and it looks
like an abstract colour field painting
HZH: yeah, and I belive that may be the kind of
abstract artwork I am drawn to, that in a way is still
is a depiction of space. perhaps the word abstract is
used far too much, it becomes kind of meaningless.
as really all painting is abstract anyway.
MA: Ha yeah thats very true. And I agree with the
depiction of space too, something intimate.
HZH: So I can understand your hesitancy at
me labeling some of your paintings abstract, fair
enough. in the call you talked of painting as a slow
process that takes time. what comes out of this time
for you?
MA: A decent painting hopefully. No its probably
more of a cathartic endeavour.
HZH: hahaha.. There is a philosopher called martin
Heidegger that suggested that we create the world
by engaging with it. we are worlding the world .
this could be applied to art making or to painting. do
you think painting discovers worlds?
as surely the activity of painting being long and time
consuming would be well suited to our engagement
with it.
MA:Hmmmmm, Ive been looking up Heidegger...
And I feel its less to do with us wording the world
but rather the world humaning the humans.
HZH: We arent really creating the world so much
as our individual conception of the world.
MA:But we are conceived into the already existing
world with its already existing ways of surviving.
Oh yes...Perspectives... Recently I thought about
being an artist is a bit like being an empathy tourist.
Sometimes I feel like the way in which the most
unacknowledged individual fixes a shoe is last true
remaining work of art.
HZH: - what do you mean by empathy tourist?

MA:An empathy tourist in the sense that when

youre painting a portrait. The paint has to be in
lieu of flesh and the figure has to be treated in
accordance with the evocation of the situation and
the technique has to be aligned with the subjectivity
of the experience but always from the distance of a
selfie stick.

Embodying a situation
for a period of time
with the constant
awareness that it is not
the singular permanent
experience.
HZH: Thats exactly it.
We can be certain that
everything is uncertain.
After reading what
you just wrote I want
to go and paint....The
world is essentially
unfathomable and
ungraspable. our view
of it is always going to
be a fragment, and a
construction that allows
our consciousness to
be in the world. and
we could say paintings
are constructions of
understanding, that are
never complete, and
never correct
MA:I dont know that
painting represents
different worlds. It
represents possible
worlds and I think
theres a lot of
possibilities in that
spectrum. I get the
same thought when I
engage with anyone
who just isnt creative
which is okay heres
one of those people
who dont come from
your world
Contemporary art is the acupuncture of human
consciousness.
HZH: And probably always has been (even before
contemporary art was a concept)

MA:We spoke before about abstraction. And Im

funny about most titles Im funny about being
referred to as a painter. But Im particularly funny
about being called an abstract painter, because I
dont think I abstract a form, my intention is to
remove it to the point of recognition.
Thats not to be blas about abstraction for 1) Im

not in tuned enough with myself to really explore it.

And 2) I feel like I couldnt pretend to be in tuned
with myself enough to make it.
HZH: do you think when you paint you construct
the way you understand reality or a person, or
do you find that the act of painting builds your
understanding?
In terms of worlding, I realise that we are creating
our personal construction of understanding the
world, but when a painting is made that construction
can then be seen by other people and could take part
in their own understanding. In this way the paintings
view of reality spreads outwards, and perhaps does
shape a universal view of the world to a degree.
This also could move over to the development of
someones character or their being as understood
by the painter. And then after the painting the
sitters view of themselves may change, in effect
personing their person.
MA: Maybe you construct subtleties in the way
a person might interact with their reality. I have
occasional moments when painting. I think
I know the exact mindset of the person. Its
probably not like that at all though. Then again
I am making art and that should require an
element of imagination. The medium definitely
has an effect. It seems to always be a balance
between the act of painting and the want to
paint
HZH: Yes the medium certainly has its effect
too, it is there in lieu of flesh but it is also paint.
And therein lies its paradox and its beauty
MA: And its seduction as an artist material,
particularly oil paint. I always imagine oil paint
being ringed out of pure soil or various grades
of clay and I know thats not true but I believe
it still and nothing will shake that kind of
romantic faith
HZH: yes ive always been prone to romantic
faith and aggrandising statements :)
the seduction of the oil paint as flesh, is very
alchemical, transfiguration of matter into
various forms. it has a kind of mystical charm
about it.

Harry Zed Hughes

(answers his own questions)

why do you paint?

I paint because anything is possible in painting,
and there is always another problem to respond
to. I enjoy the long history of painting. to say that
everything has been done, I believe is incorrect,
however so much has been done that when I am
painting I am always thinking of other paintings
from painting tradition, past and present. The field
is open, you can go anywhere, a vast landscape has
already been constructed, so there are more places
to go in the field. And when you begin constructing
a new area of land you get to draw on all the other
mountains, and junk heaps.
I like that painting is mostly a one person activity,
you can be uncompromising, and I hope to be more
so in the future.
will always find something wrong, but that in the
end, if I keep pushing through I can end up with
something, I will stop seeing mistakes that are crying
out, they perhaps just murmur, and the painting
works. This has given me a liberty to start paintings
freely, as I know it will be a mistake, that ill be
fixing. So starting isnt so much of a problem for
me, and ill often choose a colour almost arbitrarily
as I know it will have to be balanced out as the
painting continues, its gristle for the mill.

Chaohui Xie
Harry: You dont feel like you can be serious with
your painting?
Chaohui Xie: yes, when youre being serious you
look pretty ridiculous, because you dont know
what kind of painting comes out from under the
brush so its not fun anymore, when I look at
other peoples paintings, they look like they are all
running to the truck you know? .Whatever you
do, people will say ahh you know this is somebody
elses style? and you know Im sick and tired of
hearing that.

what is your relationship to figurative painting?

For me figuration is another layer of reality that is
involved in a painting, along with formal elements
of its construction, its mood and energy. Figuration
is a gateway to talk about perception of the world
and of other humans and space, so it is grounded in
our experience as humans, socially and spatially.
when is painting contemporary? (can it be
new?)
Im not sure why I asked this question, it is a
question that answers itself. I suppose I wanted
others to answer it and defend the validity of
vpainting in a contemporary context.
For me painting has an ability to juggle concepts,...

Tell me about your painting process?

My process is an ongoing correction of mistakes.
which for a long time was hard emotionally as one
is always self criticising, but now ive realised my
process im mostly at peace with it. I know that I

HZH: Dont you think we can use different peoples

styles, and change them? a lot of painting has gone
before us, and its hard to do something completely
new. but maybe we can look at what other people
have done and do something which is just slightly
different.
CHX: Its very difficult to be different, weve been
painting for how many hundreds, thousands of
years? whatever you do, expressionist, classical,
anything. and in fact I think that sometimes, just
colour, all the colour together it just looks beautiful,
or ugly it doesnt matter! haha. I dont know why,
in the school for a long time we are supposed to
be better, but after studying for several years I have
realised that I am better. Im better because Im not
painting anymore.
HZH: Your better when you dont paint?

How important is beauty in art?

I see beauty as essential. I differentiate something
being beautiful and something being pretty. Any
emotional state can be represented beautifully,
whereas prettiness is only associated with happy
emotions, and it often sacrifices depth for
cleanliness. I understand beauty as truth, and truth
is never clean, never simple and never singular.
Beauty is in the good and the bad, it is in the
complex structure and the overlapping of life levels,
the physical, the life force, the emotional and the
conceptual.

CHX: Well before I didnt know much, youre

happy about what you have done and you say ahh
thats brilliant beautiful or whatever, but now
Its nothing to do with beautiful, its something to
do with interesting. Whenever we see the paintings
that are just like a still life, you know a few flowers,
you know decorative, that you can buy and hang on
the wall, and people will walk in and say ahh that
matches your house. Thats nothing to do with just
painting, it doesnt matter where its hanging, in the
toilet, in the living room, people appreciate that
this is art, but in our school we practice, it doesnt

matter, its with colours. I dont know how to answer

that.

in myself! why am I so difficult to please! Im too

critical

landscapes, why do you think you stopped painting

things from life?

HZH: Thats alright. So you say that your paintings

arent trying to be serious, they arent about anything.
but I feel like when I look at your paintings they are
alive.

HZH: I think your paintings are very beautiful.

CHX: Because I think a camera can do that. one

thing a camera cant do is abstract painting with
colour. I guess when I went to vca only one thing
I benefit from, is that before I never knew how to
play with colour, I mean I could paint something
that very much looks like something. but I dont
know how to play abstract painting. But now I think
Im beginning to really enjoy playing with abstract
colour, and of course playing. Forget about what
you want to do and let the colour lead you. That
makes me happy.

CHX: I think its because I the school we have

been trained how to look at colours, so sometimes
we think we just appreciate the colours. you
know: its light tones, dark tones together, and the
movement of the paintbrush strokes together. And
thats probably enough, you dont need to suggest
some forms, or meanings or stories. I just simply
appreciate nice colour, all the colours, bright and
dark, and dirty and messy. If they are put together
and look comfortable, that is good painting to me,
but I didnt mean to paint like this, like now Ive
painted 14 small paintings, a little bit here and a little
bit there, and now Im going to go back and start to
play around, to see which colour,, and which colour,
with the other colour together, matches together.
Are you sometimes very disappointed when you are
looking at peoples paintings or when you go to the
gallery? And why are you disappointed? Is it because
you dont like the colour? Or the style? Or have you
seen too many people painting the same thing?
HZH: Well yes, as I was saying before your
paintings are very alive, and I think some other
paintings might look dead, and I guess maybe they
arent paying attention to the way the colours work
together, sometimes black will always be added to a
colour to make it darker, and it looks very dull.
CHX: I guess how I feel about most of VCAs
students colour is that there is a code that many
people use: its not so bright and not so dark, its
just a middle tone, and I hate middle! it has no
personality, everybody is doing the same thing, very
grey. paintings and sculptures too that are almost the
same style.
So I sometimes wondering am I wrong? should I be
using the VCA style? or am I weak, am I an alien, an
outsider. I sometimes think I dont fit in that place.
Im always questioning myself: am I childish?
you have so many kinds of candy in front of you,
ok? and we all know that candy is sweet, but they
have several kinds of degrees of sweetness. and
some VCA has a lot of good painting and
good teachers, but it is missing something, and I
dont know if it is just me, if Im wrong, I have
no idea Im very angry, even looking at Jia Xins
painting, whatever we do, its just going back to the
same style, no she is going back to a chinese style,
you know with movement calligraphy, paint brush
strokes, and Im disappointed. Im disappointed

CHX: When you look at painting either youre

looking for technique, and some people are very
good with technique, but to me I have no idea
what is good and what isnt good anymore. and
Id rather not say beautiful, I just want to say that
interesting is probably more important, like when
you see something you have never seen before you
will say ahh thats interesting, and interesting is
nothing to do with good or bad or beautiful. I want
something is unusual, something I havent done
before or seen anyone else do before. For example
you Harry have a skill and you play with your skill,
and we can see you play, and that is the key to why
people enjoy looking at a painting. Like when your
daughter was in my house, and she was so happy,
and she didnt say hey I have to be happy today, so
Im going to find something else to do she is two!
she comes in and immediately she is goes to find
something that she has never seen before, and that
makes her happy! Because she isnt planning it she
is just moving about the space, walking and lying
down, happy or crying, and its so natural, I think
that is the way our painting has to be, when we paint
we shouldnt pretend to find a subject matter to
please a teacher, or please someone, or the viewer.
Just simply how about we play. Just use colour and
see what comes out of that, and it feels so natural
to me.
HZH: Its A way of being. Like my daughter, Its
not something you plan, you just do
CHX: Yes. you dont say hey I have to play. You
play. Your paintings sometimes do that, when you
pick something and you started it, and you dont
know what you are doing, but the colour that comes
out sometimes just surprises you, and makes you
very satisfied, and it doesnt always happen, its not
controllable, it will just happen and then you will
say how did I make that but you cant go back
and do it again, you cant! I like something that you
cant copy. Even if you paint it once but you cant
go back. I like this kind of a painting. the small
paintings of mine that you like very much, I think
they work because I care less, I just picked up a
paintbrush I had been using for a large painting
and smooshed it on the small board, and whatever
happens happens, and then you can think maybe
I can add a little bit more light or more dark, and
thats all after that, and then in the last minute you
say oh that doesnt look so bad, I like that. I want
to be childish and careless like your little girl.
HZH: Many years ago you painted still lives and

HZH: When we talked earlier on the phone you

were talking about when you put your painting on
the ground and looked at it from above. Could you
tell me about that again?
CHX: Because they are very small, so I can put
them on the floor and I when Im standing up Im
far away enough to see them. And usually you see
them on a wall at eye level. But when you put them
on the floor, and stand up you feel very high, like
you are seeing from a gods eye. I like this, I think
if a god above heaven was looking down to earth
it would probably look like this. And the paintings
looked like satellite images of the earth, with oceans,
land, clouds and everything.
CHX: I have to honestly tell you though that I really
dont care much about what im telling you
HZH: Well I like your paintings anyway
CHX: Umm.. you dont know me very well Harry.
But im going to continue to make a little bit of
colour and see if it will make you happy

Ulysses wandered with his rowing oar over his shoulder. He was told to keep wandering until no
person recognised the oar for what it was. He wandered until he was asked what it was he carrying on
his shoulder? Was it perhaps some kind of winnowing hook? Ulysses knew then that he had found the
place. In that place he stuck his oar in the ground. It may be seen that each of us, artists and others
alike, are wandering carrying on our shoulders, a burden. What is the burden? What does it mean when
we come to a place where none recognise our burden? And what is it if we stick our oar in the ground
at that place.
Paul Northey

Many works of the past (and of the present) complete what they
announce they are going to do, to our increasing boredom. Certain
others plague me because I cannot follow their intentions. I can
tell at a glance what Fabritius is doing, but I am spending my life
trying to find out what Rembrandt was up to. (Philip Guston)