Central Material- Qualitative Research

Watch the following BBC interview by Jon Sopel with president

Barack Obama. Link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada33646542
The transcript has also been inserted below.

Going to Kenya
JON SOPEL: Mr President, you're about to fly to Kenya, to your ancestral home. Given the alShabaab attacks on the West Gate mall and Garissa University, I'm sure your secret service
could've suggested other countries for you to visit. But you wanted to go to Kenya.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, I think it is important first of all that the president of the
United States underscores our commitment to partnering with countries around the world,
even though we're not intimidated by terrorist organisations. Second, the counterterrorism cooperation between the United States and Kenya - and Uganda and other countries - in East
Africa - is very strong.
And part of the subject of the visit is to continue to strengthen those ties to make them more
effective. Third, as I wind down my presidency, I've already had a number of visits to Africa.
But this gives me an opportunity to focus on a region that I have not been visiting as
president, and I'm also going to have the opportunity to talk to the African Union.

So I'll be the first US president to not only visit Kenya and Ethiopia, but also to address the
continent as a whole, building off the African summit that we did here which was historic and
has, I think, deepened the kinds of already strong relationships that we have across the
continent.
SOPEL: And you're going to talk about entrepreneurship at this summit in Nairobi.
OBAMA: Uh-huh.
SOPEL: Is there any link between security and entrepreneurship?
OBAMA: I think there is. I believe that when people see opportunity, when they have a sense
of control of their own destiny, then they're less vulnerable to the propaganda and twisted
ideologies that have been attracting young people - particularly now being turbocharged
through social media.

Image captionPhoto by Amanda Lucidon/White House

And a while back, when we started looking at strategies to reach out to the Muslim world - to
reach out to - developed countries, a common theme emerged, which was people are not
interested in - just being patrons- or - or being patronised. And being given aid. They're
interested in building capacity.
The more we can encourage entrepreneurship, particularly for young people, the more they
have hope. Now that requires some reforms in these governments that we continue to
emphasise. Rooting out corruption, increased transparency and how government operates,

making sure that regulations are not designed just to advantage elites, but are allowing people
who have a good idea to get out there and get things done.
SOPEL: And I suppose the - you know, you famously said when you went to Africa, I think
when you first became president, you know, "What we need is strong institutions and- "
OBAMA: Yes.
SOPEL: " - not strong men". You're going to Ethiopia, where there is effectively no opposition
in Parliament.
OBAMA: Right.
SOPEL: You're going to Kenya, where the International Criminal Court is still investigating
certain members of the government, which seems kind of hardly ideal institutions.
OBAMA: Well, they're not ideal institutions. But what we found is, is that when we combined
blunt talk with engagement, that gives us the best opportunity to influence and open up space
for civil society. And the human rights agenda that we think is so important. And, you know, a
good example of this is Burma. Where I was the first US president to visit there.
At a time when we saw some possibility of transition, by the time I landed in Burma - it is not a
liberal democracy by any means. And there were still significant human rights violations taking
place. But my visit then solidified and validated the work of dissenters and human rights
activists.
And that has continued to allow them to move in the direction of a democracy. So, so our view
is, in the same way that I visited Russia, and in the same way that I visited China, even when
we know that there are significant human rights violations taking place, we want to make sure
that we're there so that we can have this conversation and point them in a better direction.
SOPEL: Well, haven't the Chinese got there first in Africa? You're going to go to the African
Union Building, which was built with Chinese money, you're going to travel along Chinese-built
roads, you're going to go past endless Chinese traders on those roads.
OBAMA: Well, the - what is true is that China has - over the last several years, because of the
surplus that they've accumulated in global trade and the fact that they're not accountable to
their constituencies, have been able to funnel an awful lot of money into Africa, basically in
exchange for raw materials that are being extracted from Africa.
And what is certainly true is that the United States has to have a presence to promote the
values that we care about. We welcome Chinese aid into Africa. I think we think that's a good
thing. We don't want to discourage it. As I've said before, what I also want to make sure
though is that trade is benefiting the ordinary Kenyan and the ordinary Ethiopian and the
ordinary Guinean and not just a few elites. And the Chinese, who then get the resources that
they need. And I think that we can help to shape an agenda where China, Europe, and the
United States are all working together in order to address some of these issues.

SOPEL: I'm going to suggest there may be one other difficult issue when you're there. And
that's the issue of homosexuality, gay marriage, after the Supreme Court ruling. I mean, the
deputy president in Kenya, who you're going to meet, Mr Ruto, he said - "We have heard that
in the US they have allowed gay relations and other dirty things."
OBAMA: Yeah. Well, I disagree with him on that, don't I? And I've had this experience before
when we've visited Senegal in my last trip to Africa. I think that the president there President
Sall, is doing a wonderful job in moving the country forward - a strong democrat. But in a
press conference, I was very blunt about my belief that everybody deserves fair treatment,
equal treatment in the eyes of the law and the state.
And that includes gays, lesbians, transgender persons. I am not a fan of discrimination and
bullying of anybody on the basis of race, on the basis of religion, on the basis of sexual
orientation or gender. And I think that this is actually part and parcel of the agenda that's also
going to be front and centre, and that is how are we treating women and girls.
And as somebody who has family in Kenya and knows the history of how the country so often
is held back because women and girls are not treated fairly, I think those same values apply
when it comes to different sexual orientations.

The next step of the Iran nuclear deal

SOPEL: Can we just move from difficult conversations that you're about to have in Kenya and
the excruciatingly difficult conversations that you had in getting the Iran nuclear deal? I'm sure
some people would say that yes, you've set out the case where there is no pathway to a
nuclear bomb now for Iran OBAMA: Yes.
SOPEL: But, the net effect of lifting sanctions is that billions more will go to groups like
Hezbollah, the Assad regime, and that is going to destabilise the region even more.
OBAMA: Well, keep in mind, first of all, we've shut off the pathways for Iran getting a nuclear
weapon, which was priority number one. Because if Iran obtained a nuclear weapon, then
they could cause all those same problems that you just listed with the protection of a nuclear
bomb. And create much greater strategic challenges for the United States, for Israel, for our
Gulf allies, for our European allies.
Second, it is true that by definition, in a negotiation and a deal like this, Iran gets something
out of it. The sanctions regime that we put in place with the hope of the Brits, but also the
Chinese and the Russians and others meant that they had funds that were frozen. They get
those funds back. A large portion of those funds are going to have to be used for them to
rebuild their economy.
That was the mandate that elected Rouhani. And the supreme leader is feeling pressure
there. Does the IRGC [Revolutionary Guard] or the Quds Force have more resources?

Probably, as the economy in Iran improves. But the challenge that we've had, when it comes
to Hezbollah, for example, aiming rockets into Israel is not a shortage of resources.
Iran has shown itself to be willing, even in the midst of real hardship, to fund what they
consider to be strategy priorities. The challenge is us making sure that we've got the
interdiction capacity, the intelligence, that we are building a much stronger defence against
some of these proxy wars and asymmetric efforts. And we've sent a clear message to the
Iranians. We are settling the Iran deal, but we still have a big account that we're going to have
to work. Hopefully some of it diplomatically, if necessary some of it militarily.
SOPEL: And you've had an intense campaign to settle the argument, which you've set out
with great confidence.
OBAMA: Yes.
SOPEL: Have you managed to change anyone's mind yet of the Gulf states or in Congress?
OBAMA: Well, in Congress I'm confident that we're going to be able to make sure that the
deal sticks. With respect to the Gulf states we had the leaders up to Camp David. And I
described for them our interest in making sure that they built their capacity to defend
themselves and their territory and to make sure that destabilising activities that Iran may be
engaging in are checked. But keep in mind, our Gulf partners, for example, their combined
defense budget is ten times Iran's defense budget.
SOPEL: But have they got the willingness to fight in the OBAMA: Well, and - and - and that's the issue. And that's the challenge as - so the point that I
made to them consistently is, you have a strong, reliable partner in the United States. But
ultimately, how issues get resolved in the Middle East is going to depend on both
strengthening military capacity, but also addressing the underlying social and political issues
that may lead not only to Iran being able to stir up problems among Shia populations, but also
addressing some of the issues that are leading to the enormous and significant threat that
they face from ISIL.

The UK and IS air strikes

SOPEL: Nowhere is facing greater instability, and you mention ISIL, than in Syria. It looks like
the British may be about to start flying alongside America and launching airstrikes. Would you
welcome that?
OBAMA: Let me first of all say that Prime Minister David Cameron's been an outstanding
partner of ours on not just the anti-ISIL coalition, but on a whole host of security issues. And I
want to congratulate his government for meeting the commitment of the 2% defence budget.
Because we don't have a more important partner than Great Britain.

And for him to make that commitment, when he has a budget agenda that is, you know
confined, a budget envelope that is confined, is really significant. And it is important for British
leadership, but it's important for US stability. Now, with respect to Syria, we consult closely,
Britain's one of the leading members of the 60-nation coalition that's addressing ISIL.
In combination with the Turks and the Jordanians and others, what we are trying to do is not
only shrink the environment in which ISIL can operate, but also to create an environment in
which we stop the border flows of foreign fighters into Syria, we've made progress there, we
need to make more, and that's where Great Britain's participation can help.

Image captionPhoto by Amanda Lucidon/White House

But the second part of this is pushing Assad, the Russians, the Iranians, into recognising
there's got to be a political transition before Syria pulls the entire region into what could be an
even longer and more bloody conflict.
SOPEL: You talk about the 2% defence spending in Britain. I'm right in thinking that there was
quite a bit of pressure put on from here, saying it would be very bad if you didn't.
OBAMA: I wouldn't say pressure. I think I had an honest conversation with David that Great
Britain has always been our best partner. Well, you know, I guess you could go back to 1812
and that would (LAUGH) you know, that SOPEL: When we tried to burn this place down?
OBAMA: Yeah, right, right. But that's ancient history SOPEL: History.
OBAMA: In modern times there's no country where we have closer affinity in terms of values,
and on the international stage a nation with greater capacity. And so I think David
understands that part of the greatness of Great Britain, of the United Kingdom is that it is
willing, as we are, to project power beyond our immediate self-interests to make this a more
orderly, safer world.
SOPEL: And pe-OBAMA: And we're glad we have that partner.

Leaving the EU
SOPEL: And people have talked about strategic shrinkage. That Britain is no longer playing its
place on the world stage in the way that it used to. There's going to be a referendum on
whether we stay in the European Union or not. And David Miliband, the former foreign
secretary, he said, "It's almost like Britain would be resigning from the world and no US
government would be impressed by that."
OBAMA: Well, I - you know, obviously the - the whole debate that's been taking place about
the European Union, the eurozone, Greece that's a complicated piece of business. I will say
this, that having the United Kingdom in the European Union gives us much greater confidence
about the strength of the transatlantic union and is part of the cornerstone of institutions built
after World War II that has made the world safer and more prosperous.
And we want to make sure that United Kingdom continues to have that influence. Because we
believe that the values that we share are the right ones, not just for ourselves, but for Europe
as a whole and the world as a whole.

Obama's legacy
SOPEL: Can we just talk about, because you mentioned a moment ago about that you're in
the tail end of your presidency. After the midterm elections, I read every commentator say,
"Well, this administration is effectively over now. The president is a dead man walking. And
nothing is going to happen until 2016."
OBAMA: Right.
SOPEL: Except that you've kind of got this deal, you've got Cuba, diplomatic relations,
healthcare reform embedded, major trade deal with Asia. It's not a question of journalist-OBAMA: Climate change agenda with China.
SOPEL: Okay, so it's not OBAMA: I've got a pretty long list.
SOPEL: Okay, so it's not a question that a journalist often asks, what's gone right?
OBAMA: (LAUGH) You know the - it's interesting - that one of my - every president, every
leader has strengths and weaknesses. One of my strengths is I have a pretty even
temperament. I don't get too high when it's high and I don't get too low when it's low. And what
I found during the course of the presidency, and I suppose this is true in life, is that
investments and work that you make back here sometimes take a little longer than the 24hour news cycle to bear fruit.
So some of this is just some serendipity and convergence of a lot of things that we had been
working on for a very long time coming together. But some of it is I also believe a recognition
that the kind of gridlock and obstruction that that Congress and the Republicans in Congress
too often have engaged in is something that we just can't afford at a time when the world is
moving so fast and there are so many challenges. And the robust exertion of executive
authority within the the lawful constraints that we operate under is something that we've been
spending a lot of time thinking about.
SOPEL: Let me just ask you this - finally, because- I'm sure you would like it to be written that
President Obama turned "Yes we can" into OBAMA: "Yes we did."
SOPEL: "Yes we did."
OBAMA: Yeah.

Unfinished business
SOPEL: But is there an issue that there are be going to be unfinished business? Perhaps
most notably on race and on guns by the time you leave the White House?

OBAMA: There will be. Look there was never a promise that race relations in America would
be entirely resolved during my presidency or anybody's presidency. I mean, this has been a
running thread - and - and fault line in American life and American politics since its founding.
And so some of the most recent concerns around policing and mass incarcerations are
legitimate and deserve intense attention. And I feel that we are moving the ball forward on
those issues. What I will say is that - eight years - well, after eight years of my presidency, that
children growing up during these eight years will have a different view of race relations in this
country and what's possible.
Black children, white children, Latino children. America is becoming more diverse, it's
becoming more tolerant as a consequence there's more interactions between groups. There
are going be tensions that arise. But if you look at my daughters' generation, they have an
attitude about race that's entirely different than even my generation.
And that's all for the good. You mentioned the issue of guns, that is an area where if you ask
me where has been the one area where I feel that I've been most frustrated and most stymied
it is the fact that the United States of America is the one advanced nation on earth in which
we do not have sufficient common-sense, gun-safety laws. Even in the face of repeated mass
killings.
And you know, if you look at the number of Americans killed since 9/11 by terrorism, it's less
than 100. If you look at the number that have been killed by gun violence, it's in the tens of
thousands. And for us not to be able to resolve that issue has been something that is
distressing. But it is not something that I intend to stop working on in the remaining 18
months.
SOPEL: Mr President, thank you very much.
OBAMA: Thank you so much. I enjoyed it.