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Yukiyoshi Sagawa's Aiki, Transparent Power - Part 2

aikidosangenkai.org

Yukiyoshi Sagawa demonstrates Aiki-age on Tatsuo Kimura

while on a train in 1987
Yukiyoshi Sagawa was a contemporary of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba
and a fellow student under Daito-ryu Chuku-no-so Sokaku Takeda. He often
accompanied Takeda Sensei in his travels around Japan, and received his
Kyoju Dairi (assistant instructors license) from Sokaku Takeda in 1932 (this
is the same license that Morihei Ueshiba received from Sokaku Takeda in
1922).

Yukiyoshi Sagawa demonstrates

Aiki-age

In Sagawa Dojo the techniques that Sagawa Sensei learned from Sokaku
Takeda were organized into ten levels (Gen / ). Only a few of Yukiyoshi
Sagawas students received the Kyoju Dairi certification from Sagawa
Sensei, and among those only three have completed the 10th Gen.

One of the three student to have completed 10th Gen with direct instruction
from Yukiyoshi Sagawa isTatsuo Kimura (),a long time student of Sagawa Sensei.Born in Tokyo Japan
in 1947, Kimura Sensei isa well known mathematician and professor at Tsukuba University. He published
two books about Sagawa Sohan () that have been translated into English (the latter one only partially)
Transparent Power () and Discovering Aiki My 20 Years with Yukiyoshi Sagawa Sensei (). He also
holds a third-dan in kendo and a fifth-dan in Aikido, which he studied under Seigo Yamaguchi ().
This is the secondpart of a two part interview that appeared in Japanese in the book Daito-ryu Aiki
Bujutsu Sagawa Yukiyoshi, Divine Techniques of Aiki Signposts to Aiki, a miraculous technical method
that surpasses strength ( ), which was published in March 2015 by BAB Japan publishing company (
BAB), which also publishes the popular martial arts magazineGekkan Hiden ( / Secret Teachings
Monthly).
You may wish to read Part 1 of the interview before reading this section.

Yukiyoshi Sagawas Aiki, a true portrait of Transparent Power Part2

Interview with Tatsuo Kimura
Sagawa Sohans Aiki
Q: In the end, Aiki is the heart and soul of Daito-ryu, isnt it?
A: Thats right. Those who came from the outsideincluded many high ranking
practitioners of other forms of budo, and it was my responsibility to pair up with
that kind of person in the beginning. I thought that it would be unforgivable to
lose to these people, so I repeated the conditioning exercises that I had been
taught by Sensei almost twenty-thousand times every day.
Yukiyoshi Sagawa demonstrates
Tai-no-Aiki ( / Body Aiki)

masters
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But Sensei told me one day Whatever conditioning you do, once a new person

Aiki its all over! Thats the way that Aiki is., and from that time I thought thatFeb
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masters Aiki its all over! Thats the way that Aiki is., and from that time I thought that I must grasp Aiki no
matter what. That is to say, even though I could not be defeated by other people after heavy training inthe
conditioning exercises that I spoke of before, when I got caught by Sensei there was nothing that I could
do.And then Sensei told me that it was because he understood that one could be defeated through Aiki no
matter how much they wereconditioned that he taught me the conditioning methods, and I thought that I
understood.
(*Translators Note: the language here is as in the original, and is somewhat awkward. The sense is that
Sagawa Sensei would teach the conditioning exercises, but without explanation. The exercises are
necessary for developing Aiki, but are not themselves Aiki, so he would watch to see if people could
grasp the connection. If they did then they were worth teaching, if not then)
Sagawa Sensei would never teach anything about Aiki straight out. There was a heart and soul called Aiki,
and he would teach the technical methods on the periphery of it, until he got quite close to the components
of the heart and soul. In other words, he would teach that much, and then watch to see if one could grasp
the components of the heart and soul. He thought that if someone could not grasp that then there was no
point in teaching them. Originally, Sagawa Sensei himself expended considerable effort until he mastered it
at last, so he thought that it natural that the person learning should invest that kind of effort.
For that reason, it was inevitable that he would concentrate the people that he neededto teach and bring
them up intensively. He set up the steps of 1st Gen and 2nd Gen so that people who established their
capabilities and zeal could progress ahead of the others.

Yukiyoshi Sagawa (front center), around the

time that Sagawa Dojo
was opened in Nakano-ku, Tokyo
Q: Among those people are some who dont speak
well of Sagawa Sensei, giving as the reason that
they were never able to takehis hand, even once.

Sagawa Dojo Opening

A: I know that there are some people like that.

However, in the majority of those cases those types
of people have some points of their own that they
ought toconsider. Just as the student chooses the
teacher, the teacher also has the right to chose the
student, and I think that it is those who do not
understand this point who are in the wrong.

For that reason, if one cannot be taught directly by the teacher then one must change themselves into a
student that the teacher desires to teach. I myself was refused admission at first, and was only admitted on
the condition that I would not be taught. Basically, it was thought that I had come to steal techniques to use
in Aikido. For that reason I was not taught, even slightly, by Sensei in the beginning. But I changed that
through my own efforts. In my case, I thought that at least I would try to become, even a little bit, a good
student for Sensei. That sincerity gradually got through, and Sensei began to teach me. That is the effort of
the student. In other words, it is really that, more than learning, one must stand in Senseis shoes and
become the kind of person that Sensei would think to teach. Expecting to be taught as a matter of course
without doing that is a mistaken understanding.
Besides, if one did not adopt a teaching method like Sagawa Senseis then I think that a technical method
of 2such
not01,something
that MST
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Besides, if one did not adopt a teaching method like Sagawa

Senseis then I think that a technical method

of such depth and difficulty as this one would not survive. From the very beginning it is not something that
can be taught equally to all people, and if one did something like that it would be impossible to maintain the
technical level of the art. If it is a matter of the form of the technique then one can make an explanation, but
the essence of the techniques is an area that cannot be explained with words. Aiki is particularly something
that is mastered through the internal senses. For that reason, it is impossible without the capability and zeal
of the person learning, their own training and conditioning and their ability to understand. So if one stands
in the place of the instructor it is inevitable that one will choose the people that they instruct.
Q: In other words, as concerns instruction, if one does not have an attitude like that then it will be difficult
to preserve the level of the techniques?
A: Thats right. At least, of those who were actually able to use Aiki, there were only Takeda Sensei and
Sagawa Sensei. If its just form then there are many people who are doing it, but there were only two who
were able to apply it when an opponent came to attack in earnest. However,the factthat there were those
who could use it is without doubt, so I would somehow like to leave this behind for the human race.
Im hesitant to mention a personal matter, but with regards to Aiki I have repeated a long process of trial
and error. When I was fortunate enough to get it right and destabilize someone I would think Ah is this
Aiki? and feel good, but when I tried it on Sensei he would yell No, no, thats just strength! Aiki is like
this!, and when I tried it it was completely different from what I was doing. I would give up and think of a
different method. But that would also be wrong. This happened many times.

Transparent Power ()
Q: What motivated you to write Transparent Power?

Transparent Power () Japanese and English Editions

A: At first it was the fact that in order for someone to get

that much real power takes incredible effort. If that is
the case, then such a person should be formally
recognized, shouldnt they? I dont really want to say
this kind of thing, but I think that it was a tragedy that
even though Sensei had such real power he lived a life
that was not formally recognized because he did not put
himself out in the world, while at the same time there
are those people who are all talk and have nothing yet
are selling their false reputations. That thought is what

motivated me to write the book.

In the beginning Sensei did not participate in any way. However, little by little my resolve drew him in and
he contributed things such as the personal history in the beginning he also proofread the manuscript.
Thanks to that, three years ago, I can remember even now, I was able to publish it at last on March 24th.
However, I think that was the last chance to write a book like that one. Oddly, Sensei passed away exactly
three years after that book was published. Perhaps there was some kind of connection
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Thanks,

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Thanks,
Chris
Q: Reading the words of Sagawa Sensei that were recorded in that book one senses that he always
kept a positive attitude towards budo. More than anything else he believed in the possibilities of Daito-ryu
to the end, his immersion in that is wonderful. Each time that I read it I always think that this is what a
budoka must be like.
A: At one point Sensei and I developed the habit of talking before training in the kitchen and from the many
things that we discussed I selected those parts that were not related to technical methods. If you can gain
some appreciation of him from that then I think that there was some value to writing that book. For the most
part, it is only those that give up on becoming strong at some point that try to rationalize the matter by
saying trying to become strong is superficial. But Sensei was different. Right down to the very end he
never abandoned his aspirations. I would really like the world to know of the life and the spirit of a Sensei
like that.
Q: I feel the same way. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule today.
(Interview conducted on April 19th 1999 at Tsukuba University)
You may also enjoy:
Yukiyoshi Sagawas Aiki, a true portrait of Transparent Power Interview with Tatsuo
What is Aiki? Introduction to a method of analyzing Aiki. (Part 1)
Aiki no Rentai: The Conditioned Body of Yukiyoshi Sagawa, Part 1
Strange, Odd and False Theories of "Aiki"
What is Aiki? Introduction to a method of analyzing Aiki. (Part 3)
Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku, Part 2

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