-DRAFT REPORT-

Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement

Recommendation to the Anaheim City Council

May 9, 2013

Committee Members

Anthony Armas John Woodhead, Ex Officio Member

Bill Dalati, Vice Chair
Amanda Edinger
Sandy Day
Larry Larsen
Martin Lopez
Gloria Ma’ae
Keith Olesen
Vivian Pham, Chair
Vic Real
-DRAFT REPORT-

Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement

Recommendation to the Anaheim City Council

Executive Summary
Anaheim City Council Resolution 2013-038 (See Appendix A) established the
Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement (noted as CAC
hereafter)on August 8, 2012 . The CAC held meetings at least monthly between October 18,
2012 and May 9, 2013, for a total of 12 meetings. During each of these meetings the CAC
heard citizen and expert testimony on the issues under their charge as outlined in
Resolution 2013-038 . In fulfillment of their charge, the Citizens Advisory Committee on
Elections and Community Involvement respectfully recommends to the Anaheim City
Council that the City of Anaheim:

- Place the question of a potential change in the city election system, particularly the
question of districts or at-large council member elections to a vote of the citizens of
Anaheim.
- Expand the size of city council to either six (6) or eight (8) council members, with the
mayor serving as one additional member.
- Continue to have the mayor be elected at-large.
- Continue to actively remove barriers to voter registration through the activities of city
staff and create a community outreach committee to encourage voter registration.
- Have a city voting official (city clerk) lead the following: working with local community
leaders to promote voter registration and turnout (e. g. church leadership, PTA),
partnering with schools, partnering with community groups (that are non-partisan,
non-profit or civic organizations) to assist with identifying local leaders.
- Continue partnering with the Orange County Registrar of Voters to provide election
materials in multiple languages (as required by law), translate election materials or
other items into multiple languages, translate all city community meetings (including
candidate forums), translate all city council meetings, and explore Spanish language
subtitles on ACTV to encourage resident participation in elections and in local
government decision making.
- Change the city council meeting time to 6:30pm to facilitate and promote participation
in the electoral process.
- Increase the number of neighborhood council meetings in the range of six (6) to twelve
(12) meetings annually to promote participation in the electoral process.
- Establish protocols to collaborate with civics organizations (such as the League to
Women Voters) to inform voters about voter information, and when appropriate,
conduct candidate forums to promote participation in the electoral process.

This report and set of recommendations was approved by the Citizens Advisory Committee
on Elections and Community Involvement on (INSERT DATE) by a vote of (INSERT VOTE)

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-DRAFT REPORT-

Overview
The Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement met a
total of 12 times, the first meeting was held on October 18, 2012 and the final meeting was
held on May 9, 2013. The City Manager’s Office provided staff support to the committee.
Representatives of the offices of the City Manager and City Attorney were in attendance at
the meetings.

Resolution
The Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement (CAC)
was established by City Council resolution 2013-0381 The resolution charged the CAC with
providing “advice to the City Council on promoting the full participation of all ethnic and
racial groups in local elections, including recommendations on the following:”
1. Potential changes in the City’s election systems, including election by district,
residency-required districts, continuing with an at-large elected mayor or resuming
Anaheim’s historic system of having the mayor appointed by the council, the
number of districts, if any; cumulative voting; traditional voting; and the date of
elections;
2. How to encourage voter registration;
3. How to identify and engage community groups that can assist the City with
encouraging resident participation in elections and in local government decision-
making;
4. What language assistance programs would be cost effective to encourage resident
participation in city elections and local government decision making; and
5. Other techniques, approaches, methods, or alternatives that, in the estimation of the
Committee, should be considered by the City Council or recommended to groups or
agencies with the ability to act to promote the participation of racial and ethnic
minorities in the electoral process.

Appointments to the Committee

CAC members were appointed to the committee based on the procedure established
by City Council resolution 2013-038. Three members2 of the CAC resigned prior to the
completion of this recommendation, and were replaced as prescribed in city council
resolution 2013-038. Vivian Pham was elected from the membership of the CAC to Chair
the committee. The CAC membership upon completion of this recommendation was as
follows3:

Appointee Appointed by:

Amanda Edinger Council Members Kring and Brandman
Anthony Armas Council Member Eastman
Bill Dalati Mayor Tait
Sandy Day Council Member Murray
Keith Olesen Council Member Murray

1 the full text the resolution appears in the appendix

2 Peter Agarwal, David Dias, and Joseph Karaki
3 listed in alphabetical order by surname

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-DRAFT REPORT-

Larry Larsen Former Council Member Galloway

Martin Lopez Former Council Member Galloway
Gloria Ma’ae Council Member Eastman
Vivian Pham Mayor Tait
Vic Real Former Mayor Pro Tem Sidhu

Testimony
The committee adhered to all of the procedures required by the Ralph M. Brown Act.
Public comment was heard at each meeting, which can be reviewed in the published
meeting minutes or the video recording of the meetings.

For six months, the committee heard testimony from a variety of experts in the field
as well as interested members of the public. An overview of the speakers follows:

 Justin Tucker, Director of the Center for Public Policy, California State University -
Fullerton. Provided an overview of local government electoral systems and some
information from cities in Orange County.
 Justin Levitt, Associate Professor of Law, Loyola Law School. Provided an overview of
the California Voting Rights Act and electoral systems.
 Wayne Dernetz, Former City Attorney for the City of Vista. Provided an overview of the
City of Vista’s citizens advisory committee and the community outreach committee.
 George Petrulakis, Former Chair on the Charter Review Committee for the City of
Modesto. Provided an overview of the City of Modesto’s decision to revise their
electoral system from at-large to district elections.
 Peter Morrison, Demographer. Presented information about the demographics of
Anaheim and some projected trends in city demographics.
 David Kimball, Professor, University of Missouri – St Louis. Presented information
about cumulative voting and instant runoff voting.
 Steve Chessin, President, California for Electoral Reform. Presented information about a
instant runoff voting and various forms of proportional representation electoral
systems.
 Neal Kelley, Orange County Registrar of Voters. Presented on what the Registrar does
and some of the programs that they use to encourage voting and registration. He also
provided information on the voting trends in Anaheim, including community
involvement in election administration, voter turnout, and voter registration.
 Linda Andal, City Clerk, City of Anaheim. Presented information on the City’s current
outreach and voter registration efforts.
 Aly Zimmermann, Assistant City Manager, City of Vista. Provided an overview of how
the City of Vista’s outreach committee performed its work.
 Joan Hake, Vice President Voter Service, League of Women Voters of the Central Orange
County Area. Provided an overview of the League of Women Voter’s efforts to engage
the community in the voting process.

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-DRAFT REPORT-

 Elisa Sequeira, California Director of Civic Engagement, NALEO Educational Fund.

Provided information about Latino participation in elections. She discussed voter
registration, get out the vote, information and education, and poll monitoring efforts.
 Sarah Hill, Assistant Professor, California State University – Fullerton. Presented
information on election costs, the number of city council seats, and at-large and district
elections.
 Dennis Fitzgerald, spokesperson for Anaheim HOME-Home Owners Maintaining their
Environment. Presented information about a pro-districting advocacy group for
residents of Anaheim.

Decision making process

During the April CAC meetings, a professional facilitator, Steven Lynn, was brought
in to assist the committee in their decision making process. The CAC agreed to adhere to a
set of procedural rules in their discussions and deliberations. During the CAC meetings on
April 11 and April 18, Mr. Lynn facilitated a discussion of the five topical areas under the
charge of the committee. During the April 11 meeting, the committee crafted and approved
recommendations for the following topical areas: 1) encourage voter registration, 2)
identify and engage community groups, 3) language assistance programs, and 4) other
methods to increase participation of racial and ethnic minorities. During the April 18
meeting, the CAC crafted recommendations and held a vote on the remaining topical areas:
1) At-large, district, or some hybrid electoral system to elect members of city council, 2) the
number of seats on city council, and 3) the method of electing the mayor. The CAC refers
the City Council to the minutes of the April 11 and April 18 CAC meetings for the summary
of the discussion on each of the five areas (See Appendix B).

Committee Recommendations and CAC Membership Votes

The recommendations respectfully submitted are as follows:

- Place the question of a potential change in the city election system, particularly the
question of districts or at-large council member elections to a vote of the citizens of
Anaheim.
 CAC members Dalati, Pham, Lopez, Larsen, and Real voted in support of
district elections
 CAC members Armas, Day, Edinger, Ma’ae, and Olesen voted in support
of at-large elections
o After a discussion on hybrid options, there was not a consensus of the CAC to
move that option forward.
o The CAC was unable to reach a majority recommendation on the method of
election. However, the CAC unanimously recommended that the city council put
the issue of districts or at-large elections to a vote of the citizens of Anaheim.

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-DRAFT REPORT-

- On the issue of the number of members on the city council:

o The CAC recommends that the council be expanded in number to either six (6)
or eight (8) council members, with the mayor serving as one additional
member.
 CAC members Armas, Day, Edinger, Ma’ae, and Olesen supported six (6)
council members,
 CAC members Dalati, Larsen, Lopez, and Pham supported eight (8)
council members
 CAC member Real abstained from voting

- On the issue of the selection of the mayor:

o The CAC recommends that the mayor be elected at large.
 CAC members Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Lopez, Larsen, Ma’ae, Olesen,
and Pham voted in favor of the recommendation
 CAC member Real voted against the recommendation

- On the issue of encouraging voter registration, the committee was split on the specific
role of the city. They recommend the following:
o Continue to remove barriers to voter registration through the activities of city
staff(as they currently do), and
 CAC members Armas, Edinger, Larsen, Olesen, Pham supported
removing barriers to voter registration
o Take more affirmative action by creating a community outreach committee.
 CAC members Day, Dalati, Lopez, Ma’ae, Real supported creating a
community outreach committee

- On the issue of identification and engagement of community groups to assist the city
with participation in elections and local government decision making, the committee
unanimously recommend that a city voting official (city clerk) lead the following:
o Work with local community leaders (e. g. church leadership, PTA);
o Partner with schools; and
o Partner with community groups (non-partisan, non-profit , civic participation
groups) to assist with identifying local leaders.

- On the issue of what cost effective language assistance programs that would encourage
resident participation in city elections and local government decision making, the
committee unanimously recommends that the city:
o Continue partnering with the Orange County Registrar of Voters to provide
election materials in multiple languages (as required by law);
o Translate election materials of other items into multiple languages;
o Translate all city community meetings (including candidate forums);
o Translate all city council meetings; and
o Include Spanish language subtitles on ACTV.

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-DRAFT REPORT-

- On the issue of other techniques, approaches, methods, or alternatives that should be

considered to promote the participation of racial and ethnic minorities in the electoral
process, the committee unanimously recommends:
o That the city alter the City Council meeting start time to 6:30pm to facilitate and
promote participation in the electoral process;
o That the city increase the number of neighborhood council meetings in the
range of six (6) to twelve (12) meetings annually; and
o That the city establish protocols to collaborate with civics organizations (such
as the League to Women Voters) to inform voters about voter information and
when appropriate conduct candidate forums.

This report was reviewed and adopted on (INSERT DATE) and the CAC recommended that
it be transmitted to the City Council by May 31, 2013.

Signed By:

Anthony Armas

Bill Dalati, Vice Chair

Amanda Edinger

Sandy Day

Larry Larsen

Martin Lopez

Gloria Ma’ae

Keith Olesen

Vivian Pham, Chair

Vic Real

6
 Appendix A

RESOLUTION NO 2013 038

A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ANAHEIM

CALIFORNIA AMENDING AND RESTATING THE RULES AND
PROCEDURES ESTABLISHING AND GOVERNING THE CITIZENS
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS AND COMMUNITY
INVOLVEMENT

WHEREAS the City of Anaheim is a diverse community with a significant population of

varying ethnic heritage and

WHEREAS the City of Anaheim seeks to promote the full participation of all residents
neighborhoods community groups and ethnic groups in elections and

WHEREAS the City Council is committed to studying its electoral system with an
understanding of the demographic and ethnic population in our community and

WHEREAS it is important to ensure equal opportunity of all groups to participate in the

electoral process to elect candidates that reflect community interests and to ensure full
participation of all groups in local government to ensure a representative government that serves
all and

WHEREAS the City Council of the City of Anaheim adopted Resolution No 2012090
which established the Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement
and provided rules and procedures by which the Committee would be governed and

WHEREAS following a public notice process applications for original membership to the
Committee were submitted to the City Clerk and 10 ten Committee members were selected and

WHEREAS the City Council desires to amend and restate the rules and procedures
applicable to the Committee as set forth in this Resolution to address circumstances where
vacancies may arise in the Committee membership that was appointed by City Councilmembers
no longer holding office as Councilmembers

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the City Council of the City of Anaheim
hereby amends and restates the rules and procedures establishing and governing the Committee in
the manner hereinafter set forth

1
There is hereby established the City of Anaheim Citizens Advisory Committee on
Elections and Community Involvement Committee The Committee shall consist of 10 ten
voting members with the City Manager or his appointee serving in an ex officio capacity for a
total of 11 members

2 Members of the City Council shall each appoint 2 members to the Committee
Committee members serve at the pleasure of the Councilmember appointing him or her If a
Committee member appointed by a City Councilmember still holding office as a Councilmember
resigns from the Committee during the Committee
sterm then that Councilmember may select a
replacement Committee member If a Committee member appointed by a former Councilmember
resigns from the Committee then a replacement shall be selected by the City Council or
alternatively the Council may authorize replacement be made by a subcommittee composed of
two members of the City Council and any such replacement shall serve at the pleasure of the City
Council Any City Council subcommittee formed pursuant to this Resolution shall terminate at the
time provided in Section 9

3 Nominees to the Committee must be Anaheim residents The compilation of the

Committee must consist of a majority from dispersed geographic areas of the city and represent a
plurality of the ethnic diversity in Anaheim Elected officials and anyone related to or employed by
city staff or professional staff elected officials in Anaheim are prohibited from serving on the
Committee

4 The Committee shall provide advice to the City Council on promoting the full
participation of all ethnic and racial groups in local elections including recommendations on the
following

1 Potential changes in the City

s election systems including election by district solely
elected by residents of that district residency required districts that retain atlarge
elections continuing with an atlarge elected mayor or resuming Anaheim
s historic
system of having the mayor appointed by the council the number of districts if any
cumulative voting traditional runoff voting and the date of elections
2 How to encourage voter registration
3 How to identify and engage community groups that can assist the City with
encouraging resident participation in elections and in local government
decision making
4 What language assistance programs would be cost effective to encourage resident
participation in city elections and local government decision making and
5 Other techniques approaches methods or alternatives that in the estimation of the
Committee should be considered by the City Council or recommended to groups or
agencies with the ability to act to promote the participation the racial and ethnic
minorities in the electoral process

5 The Committee
s recommendation
s shall be communicated in writing to the
City Council by May 31 2013 or through such other means and on such other dates as shall be set
by the City Council Committee meetings shall be open to the public recorded and available for
viewing at www
net
anaheim

6 To assist the Committee the City

s staff and City
s consultants are authorized
and directed to provide logistical support community outreach assistance and all necessary
information to the Committee regarding the following subjects 1 the demographics of the City
of Anaheim and its historic election results 2 the California Voting Rights Act and associated
laws governing elections 3 approaches that other communities have used to promote the full
participation of residents from all communities inmaterials
electionswhich
4 the estimated
relevant
costtheassociated
to
with
tasks assigned
and 5 any other information or are
various options
to the Committee In addition the Committee may invite speakers with expertise to address the
Committee on subjects which the Committee determines will assist it in its mission Members of
the public shall also be invited to address the Committee regarding ways to promote the full
participation of racial and ethnic groups in the political process including elective office
7 To encourage public input and access the Committee shall meet monthly at a
minimum and hold multiple meetings in different areas of the City The Committee is also
encouraged to solicit ideas and suggestions from the Secretary of State County Registrar and
local school districts as well as from Anaheim
s elected state and federal officials
8 The Committee may assign tasks to subcommittees it creates and have those
subcommittees report to the full Committee

9 The Committee shall terminate its existence thirty 30 days after it reports to the
City Council and responds to any additional requests for advice directed to the Committee by the
City Council Once the term of the Committee has concluded it shall cease to function and shall
not exist as a recognized Committee unless extended by Council action
10 The Committee and its members shall be governed by the Ralph M Brown Act the
Anaheim Municipal Code regarding conflicts of interest and all other applicable federal state or
local laws or regulations Upon the appointment of the Committee
smembers the City Council
shall set an initial meeting of the Committee in accordance with the Brown Act at a time and
place convenient to the Committee
smembers for the purpose of organizing itself and establishing
a schedule of meetings These meetings may be held at City facilities provided that the facilities
are not otherwise in use The City will establish a special section of the City
s website for full
access and transparency on all agendas minutes and schedules of the Committee
11 The Committee shall appoint a chairperson and if desired the Committee may
adopt procedures for the conduct of its meetings and activities that are necessary and convenient to
enable the Committee to carry out its functions

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that Resolution No 2012090 be and the same is hereby

rescinded
 THE FOREGOING RESOLUTION is approved and adopted by the City Council of the
City of Anaheim this
5th day of March 2013 by the following roll call vote

AYES Mayor Tait Council Members Eastman Brandman Murray and Kring

NOES None

ABSENT None

ABSTAIN None

Tom Tait Mayor

APPROVED AS TO FORM ATTEST

Michael Houston
Interim City Atto Linda
Ana y Clerk

By I By Alb

93956
Appendix B
 Appendix B

CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON

ELECTIONS AND COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT
MINUTES

Thursday, April 18, 2013

6:30 p.m.
Anaheim City Council Chambers
200 S. Anaheim Blvd., Anaheim, CA 92805

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

John Woodhead, Ex Officio Member
Anthony Armas
Bill Dalati, Vice Chair
Amanda Edinger
Sandy Day
Larry Larsen
Martin Lopez
Gloria Ma’ae
Keith Olesen
Vivian Pham, Chair
Vic Real

STAFF PRESENT:
Greg Garcia, Deputy City Manager
Robert Tyson, Deputy City Attorney
John Woodhead, Community Development Director
Caroline Morey, Recording Secretary

Spanish language translation services are available at the meeting upon request.

1. Call meeting to order. The meeting of the Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and

Community Involvement (CAC) was called to order at 6:36 p.m.by Chair Pham.

2. Flag Salute

3. Approve CAC minutes of the April 11, 2013 meetings.

Action: Approve minutes.

Chair Pham requested a motion to approve the minutes for the April 11, 2013 CAC meeting minutes.
Vice Chair Dalati motioned to approve the minutes.
Page 1 of 39
Commissioner Armas seconded.
Ayes – 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes – 0

4. Public Comments (Individual audience participation is limited to three (3) minutes per speaker)

Action: Public comments on any agenda items or subject matter within the jurisdiction of
the Citizens Advisory Committee.

Commissioner Larsen requested the floor from the chair, he indicated there was an article in the Anaheim
Bulletin that he wished to speak about. There was a brief article and Commissioner Larsen said that he
was going to read about 3 paragraphs out of it. It is relevant and pertinent to what we are doing. It’s for
general information purposes. The headline is School Board Mulls Changing Elections to District Voting.
Voters in the Anaheim Union High School District soon could choose their school board members by
districts rather than at-large. Right now members on the Board of Trustees are voted on by the entire
district electorate and do not represent any particular area within the district. Should the Board decide to
switch, it would establish trustee areas that are represent by board members that would be voted on within
that area only. Anaheim Union is the 4th largest school district in the county with more than 32,000
students. It covers more than 46 square miles and includes portions on Anaheim, Cypress, Buena Park, La
Palma and Stanton. Of the 5 board members, three live in Anaheim while the other two live in La Palma
and Cypress.

Public Comments:

Lucille Kring, Anaheim City Council Woman, said that she did not have any plans to speak tonight. It’s
an interesting article, Mr. Larsen. She thanked Mr. Larsen for sharing that. Council Member Kring stated
that she does not support districting and she provided some reasons why. She thinks in a few years the
Hispanic community could have all five members on the City Council. You have to give it time to let the
process work. She said she does not think that districting is going to provide people with what many
people have said they want. Council Woman Kring provided examples of why districting could be
problematic in the City of Anaheim. She said for example, if Keith, Amanda and she were council
members and each came from separate districts and Keith wants a fire station, Amanda wants a police
station in her district and Council Woman Kring would like a park, the first year they are all friends and
they vote for Keith and he gets his fire station. The next year Amanda, Keith and she have a falling out
and neither one of us get the support from each other. So they don’t get Amanda’s police station, nor does
Council Woman Kring get the park. You have to remember that when there are 5 people, whether it’s 5 or
7 people, on a City Council, you are under the auspices of the Brown Act which means if you have 5
people, you can talk to one other council person. You cannot caucus. People have said to Council Woman
Kring that they will talk to their other colleagues, and get them to see their point of view in order to get
the fire station or the police station. You won’t have that opportunity because you will be violating the
Brown Act.. If you have seven council members, you cannot talk to more than two people. These are
things that you really need to consider. By district voting in a city is not going to be the be-all end-all
panacea that you are looking for. You need to elect people that you think will appropriately support you.
Also, if you are in a district, and you don’t like the person in your district you are banned from voting for
someone from another district. She said she’d provide another example: in Newport Beach, they go by
residency. There were candidates in another district and she thought each one of them would be fabulous
council members, but she could only elect one. The people in the district next to them, thought that both
of the candidates would be a disaster, so what do you do? You do not get the council person that is going

Page 2 of 39
to truly represent you. She thanked each and every one of the committee members as she realized the
commitment to serve has taken a great deal of time and energy away from your families and friend and
other places you could be. Thank you for your time. God bless.

Mariana Rivera, Anaheim resident in support of district voting. She said that she understands district
voting will not be something that will solve everything. Ms. Rivera stated that she feels districting will aid
in solving most problems that her community is having. Some people believe that Anaheim is not ready
for districting because Anaheim is being compared to other cities. She believes to truly know this; you
would need to live in those different cities. Also, she said that you would need to live in our community
to really know what we are going through. The last appearance she has had here, she was told that she has
been asked to participate more so she is doing that and she is here, participating. She would like to invite
each one of you (the committee members) and the community to attend a community meeting that they
are having. The meeting will share ways to participate and what their community is living through. She
would like to deliver them so that you can attend their meetings. She provided a handout to be given to
the committee. It is a cordial invitation extended to all so that you may see what we are living through and
what we are participating in. You as a committee have asked me and our neighborhood to get more
involved, so here I am. I am participating and we are now doing this to get more involved. Mariana said
she would appreciate your attendance at their meeting. She said that she hoped the committee would take
time to consider this to accept our invitation. She thanked everyone and said God bless.

Clare Turner, Policy Analyst at OCCORD, has been researching the distribution of community resources
such as parks, libraries, community centers, fire stations in Anaheim for quite a while. Today she
presented a handout about the above titled “Unequal Voice means Unequal Resources.” She mentioned
that you heard a lot about this from speakers who both support and oppose districts. She reviewed the
handout stating that about 300,000 residents live in the flat lands and approximately 60,000 live in the
hills. Seven council members have resided in the flat lands while eight council members have lived in the
hills. She used data that they got from Anaheim’s Finance Department used on capital improvements
spending by the city used since the 2004-2005 fiscal year. They saw a lot of investment in both areas of
the city over the past nine years, however there was more spent in Anaheim Hills. $170 per resident in the
hills compared to $156 in flatlands. Finally, if you look at the total number of resources available to
residents in different parts of the city, some of these parks and community centers have been around for a
very long time; others have been built in recent memory. Anaheim Hills’ residents have 3.5 times as
much park space as flatlands Anaheim residents, and a little less than twice as many community centers..
On a more specific public level, she stated that Anaheim South District Neighborhood Council received
less public investment in total and per capita than any other neighborhood council district. She also stated
that West Anaheim has over 100,000 residents and 13 square miles of land and only one library. Since
2004, the most public spending per resident went to the census tracts with the higher incomes. The top 1/5
of census tracts with incomes in the 80-100 percentiles, with $75,000 with median household income,
received more public investment than any of the other area. There may be reasons in that Anaheim is
governed as a whole and sometimes, issues take precedence over others. She summarized by saying that
she found a trend over time troubling that less was spent on underrepresented areas.

Marisol Ramirez has lived in Anaheim since she was a little girl, near Crescent and Brookhurst, West
Anaheim. She spoke in support of districting as she believes it will make the council more accountable.
She is a part time worker and works with children in the 5th grade class. These students remind her of the
challenges that she grew up with. She grew up in areas like many of the areas in Anaheim where residents
have expressed concern about densely overpopulated neighborhoods, nothing but apartments, parking is
an issue, absentee landlords and the area being generally run down. It angers her to see that there are

Page 3 of 39
different generations going through the same issues. There should be better access for the children. Aside
from libraries, they should have community centers that are spread throughout. They should have the
same resources as Anaheim Hills. She believes that district elections will give them that since they will be
able to hold their representatives accountable.

Theresa Hines, 15 year resident who has attended a few of the Citizens Advisory Committee meetings
and she would like to make a few observations. Although it appears that districting may be the way to go,
with the recommendation. She would like to suggest a recommendation that is comprised of both city
council and at-large members. The reason she recommends this is that there may be some leveraging
where city council can go and volley for the needs of their respective districts but you do need to have
members on a governing body that will have a city-wide perspective. She is hoping that balance could
make the City of Anaheim the best in both ways. She also wanted to express with regard to Anaheim
Police Department. She understands that other individuals have had unfortunate experiences with them,
but she would like to say that for the time that she was in need of police services, they were very
respectful, helpful and professional to me. She would like others to respect the fact that there are other
sides of the story. Regarding the comments related to Disneyland bed tax and the negativity from one of
the speakers, whether it was factual or not, she cannot comment on. She said that she shudder to think if
the city’s biggest tax revenue generator were to leave the city. She is concerned to think what would
happen to all the businesses that would be affected by that. She wanted to say that there was a president
when she was growing up who said “Ask not what you country can do for your but what can you do for
your country.” Standing here as a resident, as a tax payer, we can all do something. No matter where we
are on the economic spectrum of life, no matter what our race, creed, color, and religion may be, we can
all do something. You have code enforcement that you can call when you have unsightly, unkempt areas.
You have anonymous reporting for gang bangers who should not be terrorizing your neighborhood. She
wants all of us to know that we need to take control of our destinies and not live in fear of defeat of
anything. Lastly, she wanted to comment on the question she has heard the last two meetings that she has
been here, “how does the committee want to be remembered?” First, she commended each of the
committee for the time and sacrifice that each one of you have made and put your personal lives aside to
tend to this project. She wants to say that your decisions were substantiated upon facts, logic, due
diligence, not emotion. That they (your recommendations) were fair, equitable, and reasonable. That you
will apply wisdom to the information that you acquired over the course of this project to support your
decisions and that your recommendations help to craft an electoral model for future generations that kept
Anaheim vibrant, financially sound, and safe for our diverse community acknowledging and respecting
all residents of Anaheim.

Jeff (no last name given) is a current resident who lives near the Lincoln and Brookhurst area and works
in the area since 2009 as a grill cook. The reason why they need district elections is due to the fact, as
workers, are not being heard. Their voices are being drowned out by the voice of the few, those with the
big dollars. He is currently he is going to be thrown out of his job as of July if something doesn’t change.
Getting involved to work for change, he has attended city council meetings, spoken with Mayor Tait,
Councilmember Brandman, and a few other council members. They still have no solution. He does vote
and is a citizen. He brings his concerns to others, now, co-workers, family, friends, neighbors. He feels
that if they had an equal voice, he could talk to council members that represent the Honda Center as well
as those that represent the areas that he has lived in. He would like to bring his concerns to them, and be
heard and have change take place at that time. Thank you.

Janette Lister. She is a long time resident who grew up near Brookhurst and Ball. She presently lives near
State College and Lincoln. She lives near Honda Center and works for Honda Center. In favor of districts,

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and believes 8 districts will help represent the densely populated city and varying economic
neighborhoods. She recommends that you mandate candidate and elected official live in his or her district,
providing for them to be more hands on in their district with the issues and conflicts that are needed in
that particular district. This would improve accountability in each area.
Anaheim is changing in regard to ethnicity and income. In the 1970’s when she was growing up the
population was 60,000 and now it’s 340,000. With the immigration reform, those numbers will climb.
She wants to make it perfectly clear that this is not a Latino thing, it’s not a black thing, and it’s not
Filipino, Scottish, and German. This is an American thing. It is a basic right. There are tax payers in this
city who have issues that are not being addressed in a timely fashion simply because we live in the wrong
neighborhood.
The proposed 8 districts would impact our city in such a positive way. Those elected officials living there
in that neighborhood could head off trouble before it happens, like our recent unfortunate events. As it
stands the current elected officials live in the hills and the Colony that is 1% of Anaheim. Our system of
elections is broken. It does not reflect us. She has been coming to City Council meetings and to the CAC
meetings, with their troubles at Honda and they are running out of time.

Jose, volunteer with OCCORD. He is in solidarity with Janette Lister and all the other works at Honda
Center that they will not be kicked out of their jobs and be replaced with minimum wage workers. They
need better jobs here in Anaheim. He grew up in Anaheim, graduated of Savanna High School. He didn’t
really see any difference in neighborhoods. You assume everybody lives the same as you until you get
older and then you play against Brea High School Basketball. You realize that they have their nice
uniforms and their nice school and we’re just struggling to get by. Like many people who marvel at the
big buildings, and palm trees, and Disneyland, you don’t really know that there are other ways to live
until you take a trip elsewhere. He worked at Disneyland, as well, he quickly realized that he couldn’t
make a living there to provide for himself and his wife working there. His attitude and troubles that they
had caused them to go different ways. It’s amazing he said I went door to door to talk to voters, trying to
help get voters out. Its impressive how many people think that Anaheim Hills and Anaheim are two
different cities. It’s actually quite sad because that is the reality that there are two different cities in one.
And that’s not okay. So the solution is the districts, the district elections. They need 8 districts.

Leonard Latinen, long time West Anaheim resident came with two points he’d like to make tonight.
He said he was here 25 years ago to make a statement to a committee in Anaheim that was considering
the master plan for the city. He recommends expanding the city council to a seven member group
including the mayor. He recommends a compromise: 3 district elections with districts in the east, central,
west and 3 council members elected at large. Anaheim is a huge city and a 5 member council is too small.
He believes the city needs district elections. There are two needs for this city: larger council, some sort of
district election system. He remembers North OC Community College District who governs the Cypress
College and Fullerton College. Last year they converted to 7 trustee areas. There are 7 elected trustees
when last year they switched from 4 trustees to the current 7. This included a change to district elections.
They converted to the district system and each trustee was elected by each area. It is now more in-line
with the democratic ideals of an election system. He asked the committee to consider these suggestions.

Duane Roberts lives at 2276 Colchester Dr. He has been a resident of West Anaheim more than 40 years.
He appreciates the adoption of the recommendation to adjust future council start time to a later hour of
6:30p.m. He is satisfied with that compromise. Nine out of 9/10 super majority agree that 5p.m. is no
longer adequate. His second request may be a bit more contentious in that request that they abolish the
antiquated system of At-Large voting and move to 8 districts. From 1913-2013, many changes took place

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including conditions changing and social institutions changing. He believes the at-large system needs to
go and supports districting.

Yesenia- resident of Anna Dr. who has lived in Anaheim for more than 25 years. She thinks because of all
the problems in their neighborhood they need to have someone who represents their neighborhood. She
wants to ask for the committee’s support in suggesting 8 districts. They need someone who lives in Anna
Drive neighborhood not someone from Anaheim Hills.

Maria Ruiz said that maybe you remember me and tonight I am going to try to speak your language.
Before someone translate for me. Now, she said I am going to speak in your language. Maria Ruiz has
worked for Disneyland for 6 years. She has three teenagers in the university. She is one of the Latino
people who come to this country to have a better life. What comes to mind is the phrase from the
country’s oath “justice for all.” When you make district elections in this city that is going to be justice for
all. Thank you.

Narcisco Guevara has worked at Disneyland and has lived in Anaheim for 25 years. He has his children
who were raised here in Anaheim. He believes that he has always been a responsible citizen, never had
any problems. He is here to support the expansion of these districts. He said the expansion into districting
would personally for the last period in time he noticed the city has advanced slowly. He said that we are
in a new era, the communication era. He knows that the City of Anaheim is up to this and much more
than this. His appearance here tonight is just to say to you that our children deserve better schools, better
safe communities, and communities in better condition as well. He knows if they all work together that
we will be able to obtain this goal.

Pedro Ramadan, 32 year he has worked in Anaheim, has been running a business in Anaheim for
approximately 8 years. He pays taxes just as many of you do. Where his business is located is just off
Euclid, he does not feel his business is being well represented the way it should be represented. He is pro-
districting and with 8 districts, he would have better access to lodge any complaints or business to that
effect, to have a more successful business.

Rudy Gaona, resident of Anaheim since 2004. Born and raised in East LA. He decided to move to
Anaheim because it is a beautiful city with beautiful people. They support their military which he said he
is very proud to say he is a 21 year veteran of the service of the Army which he retired recently. He is
pro-districting. It is time for equal representation here in the city of Anaheim. It doesn’t matter what color
or race you are, but its equal opportunity for everyone.. He doesn’t have lots of money, but maybe one
day he would like to run for city council. He said with no disrespect to Ms. Lucille Kring, Council
Member, she talked about a few council members want a fire house or library; she said what if they have
a fall out. Well, they are thinking with their emotions. A true council member is a very professional
individual that the residents of Anaheim voted on.

Luz Rosales from Ponderosa Neighborhood said in her community and other low income communities,
families are forced to live crowded in apartments. This causes many serious social problems and lower
quality of life for families. One big problem they face is lack of parking. It caught her attention how the
City of Anaheim is developing this city inside the city, inside the Platinum Triangle, where they can see
the very nice condominiums, and there are spaces that are empty meanwhile people are overcrowded
elsewhere. They have been participating in South District Neighborhood Council Meetings as well as
organizing the community to try to solve their own problems. They have discussed the concern of
districting. They have talked to code enforcement and the police department but they have had have no

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answers or solutions at all. This is why she feels that they need 8 electoral districts and representatives
that understand their real needs and have their interests in mind. Their job is to listen to them; not to tell
them how they feel.

Arturo Ferreras Quintero said he has been a volunteer in the community and has served as the Chair of the
South District Neighborhood Council serving the city of Anaheim. The south is the poorest in Anaheim.
He wanted to address the committee on two points tonight that he has observed: 1. Fear of change 2. As
well as those who want genuine change in the community. He believes it is high time for us to strengthen
the social fabric of the city. He believes that districting will help. Each part of the city is represented by a
different territory or sector, if you don’t want to use the word districts that have particular needs. There
need to be representatives so that all these territories’ needs can be addressed. Some don’t want change
and feel district elections being imposed on us. There is an urgent need to be represented and to be heard.
There is a vastly different mix of people that make up the beautiful fabric of Anaheim. There is no better
democratic system than districts. He stated he supports having 8 districts in Anaheim to represent all the
needs of the city.

German Santos, resident who lives just across the street from City Hall. Here’s what he contributes to the
community. He said he is Hispanic and came from NYC originally. He has lived somewhat like a nomad
in Rancho Santa Margarita, Anaheim Hills, Irvine, Mission Viejo and Garden Grove. As a Hispanic
fellow, he’s never had to deal with issues that fellow Hispanics here like what has happened on Anna
Drive in Anaheim. The Hispanic Gang member problem, in those communities, it’s like none of that
exists. He has always thought these are issues for other people until a few years ago he and his parents
purchased a home here. What he has discovered is that the law enforcement community seems to have
contempt for Hispanic men in the community. They thought they could treat a Hispanic man working on
engineering projects for an American Company that travels to Bogota, Colombia working on project.
They thought they could treat him like a gang member.
He said despite the fact that he is an engineer. When the riots occurred or protest or whatever you want to
call them, last summer, he didn’t know many of those people because he didn’t live in their
neighborhoods but it was literally like he had known them for 30 years. The one thing that we had in
common, besides the fact that we’re Hispanics, is that they feel like the police are their enemy. That is his
contribution. He hears many people talk about how they can get help. He feels there is no help. He has
asked for the help and so far there’s no help for his concerns. This community feels that by resorting to a
different sort of electoral system that they will be able to pick people from their area and somehow that is
going to make things better.

Marta Rivera, from the Ponderosa Community, she is here in support of district voting. She said that this
issue is in your hands. If you have said that you will be spending more money to have more council
members assigned, how is it that they are able to vote for $158 million tax for the construction of a hotel
that is really no benefit for the community. You can make these changes today and be part of Anaheim’s
history. Thank you.

Maurice Turner, resident who just lives several blocks away. He’s lived in Anaheim for several years now
and said he cares very much about his community. He has been doing his part to make it better. He really
appreciates the committee doing their part and everyone here in the audience doing their part to try and
make Anaheim a better place to live. How do we know if we have done enough to satisfy the feeling of
representation in the community. What is that metric that this group and the council and the community is
going to use to know that we’ve put forth enough effort and we have made enough changes, or enough
steps in the right direction, and to make sure there is a feeling of representation from the community. In

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just taking a look back at our census data, looking at which groups are considered to be minorities. If you
look at the 2010 census, blacks are the minority in the range from about 2.5 to 3%, Asian 15-16%. If you
take those numbers and look at the way our council has been constructed that you would expect to have a
black person on council approximately every 16 years or so if we’re going along the lines of ethnic
representation. You’d expect to have an Asian person elected to council every 3-4 years. So if we don’t
meet those metrics or those quotas that some people might want to put out there for us are we still going
to leave ourselves open to the community or organizations like the ACLU and suing because we found
another group that is unrepresented. How many of these other groups are there going to be. We need to
keep putting our efforts in from a structural background, which to me sounds like quotas. It's like saying
unless you come from my exact same background, and specifically, looks exactly like me; you're not
going to be able to represent me. His deepest concern is that we're going to go through a process of
making these changes and then as a body, as a council, as a people, we're not going to give it enough time
to work. What if after that first election, the council composition doesn't change significantly or by the
second election. How much time are we going to give it before we say it's just not working or the ACLU
comes back and says you made it worse. You've made it so that now you have all this in-fighting between
these district elected officials and no one is getting anything done. That is his hope here that you continue
getting things done and that folks who are here keep showing up to other meetings and to council
meetings. He said that he appreciates everyone expressing their passion and effort in working toward
making Anaheim a better community.

Raida Hamida works and lives in Anaheim. She came to Anaheim in 1993 when she lives in Anaheim
Hills. She currently resides in the Platinum Triangle. She understands what it is like to live in Anaheim as
a privileged person and it is hard to watch the underserved in the community. It doesn't give me the right
to disconnect from these underserved communities. It is hard to see the lack of equality in the distribution
of funding, because of the situation with the lack of redistricting. People like her have to step out and
speak up to help those underserved communities by saying it's not right that just because it doesn't affect
me, any day she could lose her job, and it could affect her and she would have to leave Platinum Triangle.
She said then she may have to live in the Mira Loma area or in the Ponderosa area and the sad thing is
that our communities now are isolated. We should reunite with the people that are also discriminated
against. One of the things she would like to propose, in that it's beautiful to see everyone come out and to
see the passion and diversity regarding redistricting, but to step up because everyone here has a voice.
Everybody here has a place. She could speak to Mayor Tom Tait or Lucille Kring. She could speak to
Terry Lowe in Community Services. Everyone here has that equal opportunity to have a voice. One of the
other things she has seen unfortunately because she was part of a commission to address the youth in the
City of Anaheim. Sadly, the City of Anaheim is one of the richest places in the country, yet Anaheim also
has one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country. Mira Loma is one of the communities who have the
highest need for services yet there is no resource center. Next year there is going to be a resource center
built, but that is because of people speaking up and coming to Community Service and City Council
Meetings and speaking their voice. Even though as a Muslim and an Arab woman in our community, we
may feel discriminated against, but it's not until we also reach out to those who are underserved that we
can have a voice and work together. Because of the lack of safety in that community of Mira Loma, we
are connecting neighborhoods by promoting safety. Unfortunately because of what has happened in
Boston, is that one of the great things is that we unite in tragedy. It is unfortunately a discovery we have
in these times but we should be pro-active rather than reactive. Saturday uniting Mira Loma form 11am to
1pm the Muslim and Arab community are uniting with the Latino community and promoting safety in
that area where there are no resources.

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If anyone would like to meet me afterward I can provide you with more information. The meeting will be
this Saturday from 11-1 at the Anaheim PD, Fire Department, CERT Team; Red Cross will all be there to
address the children and the members of that community to support them in times of need. Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Adelekan, resident of Anaheim and she has looked around and she still sees human beings.
As human beings, she believes that we have a commission and command to care for one another and she
is using the work love of community to take care of one another. In the name of Dr. Martin Luther King,
he called it a beloved community. We take care of one another as human beings. Right is right and wrong
is wrong.

Let us do our homework, due diligence, use wisdom, use justice, good sense, your brain and your heart,
that we didn't pay for, but they are most valuable to us, and make the decision that is going to help
everyone. You have heard many people here tonight speaking and I am looking at the faces. Love the
faces of everyone before us. She knows you are going to do the right thing. Thank you.

Eric Altman, OCCORD, addressed the committee that if you get through tonight you get one more
meeting. Another credit to all of you for the service you have put in. Some of you came in at the
beginning, some of you a little bit later, but that is a credit to all of you. He hopes that you have been
spending hours in front of your computer screen watching the footage as there is a log of good info has
been presented. As one previous speaker mentioned change can be uncomfortable. Change is here
regardless of what you do tonight. What we have heard a lot of folks saying is that many feel there is a
need for a change to have districts. That seems to be the tough question that you have to talk about
tonight. We saw at the last meeting, that you had a very wise facilitator, who led you through some of the
easier questions and you had a lot of good agreement about a lot of things. That was good. Mr. Altman
said that he thought he would make a recommendation on starting point for tonight with a question on the
number of seats, not one single person said keep seats the same size. No one has spoken about keeping
the size the same, none of your experts said keep the size. Many of your experts 2 recommended it. If
nothing else, you may recommend an increase in the council size. Professor Hill said lower levels of
representation and you may want to consider increasing the size. You have the facts and info in front of
you so you may want to consider that size of the council. You all may not agree on districting but size
you should be able to agree upon. He thanked the committee for their service and said that he trusted as
another speaker said that you will do the right thing in serving the people of Anaheim.

Christina Guerrero, born in Santa Ana and raised in Anaheim has lived here for 36 years. She is a
substitute teach in Anaheim Union High School District (AUHSD). Being raised in Anaheim and
working as a teacher, she feels that she is part of the community and that she has gotten to know the
community well. Teaching is her passion. Two years ago she was one of the main artists who volunteered
to do the mural projects at the GardenWalk. She would love to see more of those types of projects in
Anaheim, cleaning up the image that we have here. She is a true product of the city and she loves the city.
When she subs, one of the main problems she sees is dealing with discipline problems in students who
come from certain areas. That is why she would like to see more positive youth programs and feels
strongly that involving youth to get them out of the streets and out of trouble she has seen them get into.
She volunteers a lot within her neighborhood. She is a member of OCCORD. She is an artist and she does
a lot in our city and the community. She can't stress how important this is to her personally to have better
representation. It's just logic to her and she strongly feels in her heart that it’s needed. It's just common
sense. They need that representation here. Thank you.

Chair Pham thanked everyone for their comments.

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Public comments closed at 7:35 p.m.

5. Receive and File Community Outreach Efforts

Action: Receive and file community outreach report, upon presentation of outreach
efforts.

Outreach information made available during the meeting and online at

www.anaheim.net/CACelections

Chair Pham requested a motion to receive and file the report on outreach efforts.
Deputy City Manager Garcia stated that they do not have a staff report today but they did have a memo in
their packet and that staff would be able to answer any questions.
Commissioner Lopez motioned to receive and file.
Commissioner Ma'ae seconded.
Ayes – 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes – 0
The motion passed.

6. Overview, presentation, discussion and possible decisions on the Committee’s recommendations

Action: Facilitated by Steven Lynn.

Mr. Lynn provided an overview of the items presented at the April 11 CAC meeting, as
reflected in your minutes, as well as the decisions that were made. While
the audience cannot see it, there is a list of the items that were agreed upon at the April
11th meeting. Mr. Lynn said that he would like to review those items, be prepared to
discuss those items, and be prepared to approve that draft in order to present it to the
mayor and council.

Items voted on tonight April 18, 2013

a. Council Seat size

Tonight the committee will focus on Item one regarding electoral system in Anaheim. As
a speaker recommended they may want to start with the number of council seats. The
information was presented again on a series of notes on the board which reviewed the 5
items that the committee has been tasked with in the City Council’s resolution. Mr. Lynn
also referred to the Rules listed below and reminded everyone that they would be abiding
by those as they went through the process tonight.

Secondly he wanted to ensure everyone tonight had an opportunity to weigh in on the

outcome, that everyone spoke and participated to feel as though they are a part of the
recommendations being made.

Mr. Lynn opened by discussing the number recommendation as being more than 5 with
the recommendation suggest that you have an odd number of council member seats so
that you do not have deadlock, so that the number of council members plus the mayor
would equal, hopefully, an odd number, whether that be 7or 9.
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Mr. Lynn said he would like to see where people are in regard to the 7 or 9 city council member concept.
Chair Pham said she would start by saying 8. Mr. Lynn clarified you would like to see 8 plus the mayor
so that would equal 9. Ms. Pham confirmed that.
Commissioner Armas 7 based on 6 plus the mayor.
Commissioner Lopez 8 plus the mayor.
Commissioner Edinger 6 plus the mayor.
Vice Chair Dalati 8 plus the mayor
Commissioner Ma'ae 6 plus the mayor
Commissioner Larsen 8 plus the mayor
Commissioner Real said he goes with a bunch. Mr. Lynn said that would be a split.Commissioner Real
stated that he felt like this question was premature. He said he believed that they should be looking at
some of the other questions first but said we don't know what the questions are. Mr. Lynn replied that the
questions for discussion are contained within your charge, per the resolution. Mr. Lynn reviewed the
questions.

Mr. Lynn said we're going to talk a little bit about the number of council seats.
He said we're going to discuss how the mayor might be elected.
He said we're going to talk about the ways in which the council might be elected.
Those are the three questions. That is all; those are the three questions.

Commissioner Real stated I think you are being funny about it but I don't think that it's funny. Mr. Lynn
indicated that was not his intention. Mr. Real continued that he is very serious about the process and
about the way we are going through it. Mr. Real said that he felt last week that Mr. Lynn was putting
words in their mouths on those questions. Mr. Real said that he feels coming to this question today is not
the appropriate time. So Commissioner Real said that he wish to abstain from voting.

Mr. Lynn asked Commissioner Real, so you don't wish to participate.

Commissioner Real said he did not wish to participate on this question.

Mr. Lynn said that if anyone else feels he put words in your mouth he needs to know that. He said these
are your words; not mine. This is your record; not mine. These are recommendations made from people
who have come to the dais over the 6 months that you have been working. The recommendations that you
made last week came from your record. Mr. Lynn asked for other comments.

Commissioner Day said she believes it's reasonable to expand the council and she agrees with her
colleagues. Day supported 7 total, 6 council members plus the mayor.
Mr. Lynn said let me clarify what I am hearing. There seems to be a fairly strong consensus that the
committee believes the number on the council should be expanded with there being a difference in the
total number of seats being recommended.

Mr. Lynn asked how many of you are for the total of 9 (8 council members plus 1 mayor)
The following raised their hands:
Commissioners Lopez, Dalati, Larsen, Pham

Mr. Lynn asked how many of you are for the total of 7 (6 council members plus 1 mayor)

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The following raised their hands:
Commissioners Olesen, Edinger, Armas, Day, Ma'ae

Mr. Lynn asked if he may suggest that the committee recommend to council that there be an increase in
size of the council to either 6 plus the mayor or 8 council members plus the mayor, retaining an odd total
number.

Vice Chair Dalati agreed.

Mr. Lynn asked if that would be a reasonable recommendation.
Commissioner Ma'ae and Edinger agreed as did many of the other committee members. Chair Pham
thought it was reasonable.
Commissioner Day disagreed.

Mr. Lynn said so let's use that as the recommendation to council. He said that we can revisit it tonight and
discuss it further. He said if something strikes you as needing to go back and rethink this for some reason,
the committee can do that.

Vice Chair Dalati asked that they hear the disagreement from Commissioner Day.
Commissioner Day would like to discuss this. One of the items she learned from viewing the speakers,
she said the larger the council the less efficient it becomes. Commissioner Day's concern being growing
too fast might not be wise and that it might be wiser to grow incrementally. She happened to have the
statistics provided to the committee by Professor Sarah Hill regarding cities that were comparable to us.
They saw a variety of numbers from 5-11. It seems to her if they are to expand to consider taking it
slowly. As the population continues to grow, there would be the possibility to expand maybe ten or
twenty years from now this could be revisited again if it's necessary. Commissioner Day restated the
lesson that was given to us from Dr. Hill was that the larger the council the less efficient it is, so Ms. Day
said she thinks it would be wise for them to grow cautiously as a council.

Chair Pham said that during one of Dr. Hill's presentations she said that there is only a risk if the council
expands enormously. Chair Pham does not think that from 5 to 9 is an enormous number. Dr. Hill said
she thought that if the council grew to 7 or 9 she did not think this would be an issue. Chair Pham said
that the city is growing everyday with the new immigration reform. She said she didn't know if you saw
the press release from the City of Anaheim but they agreed with the Immigration Reform Act. We're just
going to keep doubling and growing in size and population. Ms. Pham said she thinks that if they just
decide to expand the council 10-20 years from now we're going to be behind. We're not being pro-active;
we're being reactive to the community and Chair Pham said she would like to be pro-active.

Commissioner Ma'ae stated she believes that going from 5 to 9; the council size would actually double.
It's not a question of it being enormous. That is doubling the council. Why would we be in such a hurry.
Why would we not be cautious and take it in steps so that we can really examine what the actual needs are
and not just do a knee-jerk reaction. We have heard the professionals speak and they have provided good
information. Ms. Ma'ae said that she believes adding two members would be substantial and that they
have the room for growth right now. It is something that could be done right away. Why not take the time
to re-examine and see if our growth is still going to be on the same pattern that it has been or with the
change in the economy if there has been an impact on the citizenry of the city. What will the outcome be
and take some time to study that.

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Commissioner Lopez said if he may, this is from public comments and from experts in the field, Dr. Steve
Chessin, did say that Anaheim has had 5 representatives since 1857. What he can see from experts is that
Anaheim is long overdue to increase the size of the city council. So just increasing it by two, we will
continue to have an issue because the rate of growth of the city. With 340,000 residents, almost 350,000
residents, the city council will still have to many residents to represent. Here we come again in a few
years when we're already overdue, and if we take those small steps, in a couple years we're going to find
ourselves violating the California Voting Rights Act Again.

Commissioner Ma'ae interjected that we don't know that there is a violation.

Commissioner Lopez said that it's not his opinion but it's what he got from experts. He based his number
on looking at other cities in California. Anaheim is a big city. Two more members is not enough. The
ratio is still too many residents to a council member. Areas will feel not represent and we’ll be back to
square one.

Chair Pham quoted Dr. Sarah by saying that she stated 8-10 districts in Anaheim would not cause an
efficiency problem. Ten districts is a lot. She meant to say ten council members but she believes that 8 is
a good number. Chair Pham said it may seem like it’s doubling.

Commissioner Ma’ae said it is.

Chair Pham said that the city of Anaheim had 4 council members represent a city that was less than
100,000 and now we are at 350,000 and growing. More representation will help us. She does not think 8
city council members is going to be too much.

Vice Chair Dalati said he feels that it would be fair to state both opinions since 4 of us feel one way and 5
agree with the other.

Commissioner Larsen said that this meeting has gone on the road and reached every community and
touched the heart strings of the citizens, now it’s come down to this, politics. The best argument we heard
against 8 districts would be Council Member Lucille Kring. What she said that more council people you
have the harder it will be to cut deals. That is what she means. How will the example she gave with 3 of
the council trying to make progress, if there are too many other council members cluttering it up.

Commissioner Ma’ae asked if that is the same as building a consensus.

Commissioner Larsen said it depends on what that word means to you. He believed she was referring to
cutting a deal. Commissioner Larsen said maybe it’s a better deal if you have 8 people than 4 people. Mr.
Larsen said we need more districts.

Commissioner Real clarified by saying that we are not talking about districts; what we are talking about is
number of council seats, number of members. What Mr. Larsen just said to us was talking about districts.
He said may have misquoted Council Member Kring that the city council job is to divvy up what is
available. It’s a matter of economics, not politics. The decision is who is going to get the bigger piece of
the pie today and not tomorrow.

Mr. Lynn indicated that we are talking about council size, number of seats, not how we get that council
size.

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Commissioner Armas said we’re throwing a lot of numbers around. He said the districts are relative to the
council because the council dictates the districts. When he looked at New York they basically have
144,000 people per council member. We keep hearing this 8 number. It seems to be a consensus around
the organized group we’re hearing from. When we’re talking about 8; we’re talking about 45,000 people
per council member representation. Then they want to break that into districts which seem pretty small.
He gave Oakland as an example and they have 9 with about 50,000 more people than Anaheim. So there
is room for growth and we’re at 7. Do we have over-representation.

Chair Pham said we’re not yet at 7.

Commissioner Armas said that we’re considering 7 or 9 and he thinks that 9 may be too many.
He restated that New York has 144,000 per council member.

Chair Pham said that New York is a different beast.

Mr. Lynn wants you all to discuss but I am hearing from you that it may be time to recommend increasing
the number of members of council. That number for openers is either 6 or 8 and you are not ready to
make a firm recommendation for either.

Commissioner Day asked if she might add she is hoping that Commissioner Real may consider
participating now. If we were to consider expanding to 7, last November we could have had 4 council
seats available. The number 3 and 4 seat likely would have been Mr. John Leos and Ms. Rivera. It is
interesting to see that when the council is expanded the potential for diversity increases and that would
have been with just two additional seats. To address Mr. Larsen, in defense of Council member Kring was
what was learned studying districts in the San Jose area was that land use issues become a major problem
when council members get beholden regarding too much power concerning land use. Since that meeting
she did receive an email from Dr. Christensen, the university professor regarding land use that many
mayors dominate decisions regarding land use. Their council members defer to them so that they will get
support with their preference in their own districts. She believes that is what Lucille Kring was referring
to..

Mr. Lynn said let’s be very clear we are talking about the size of the council and not how they are elected.
We are talking about the number of people who are going to sit on the dais. The question is 5 the current
number sufficient to represent the city of Anaheim.

Everyone who has spoken believes it may be time to increase the number.
There is no consensus on which number.
There are two schools of thought, at least, one is 6 plus a mayor and one is 8 plus a mayor. If you’re not
ready to switch your vote, can we get a consensus on one of those? You may want to consider
recommending to council that there be an increase in the number of council seats and either moving it to
6 or 8 plus the mayor. That would reflect everything I have heard so far.

Commissioner Edinger said she thinks the fear is that whatever decisions we make in the size of council
indirectly affect whether we favor districts. So if we say 8 council seats, if the decision is if we favor
districts, then the logical decision would be 8 districts. Do you see what I’m saying?

Mr. Lynn said I see exactly what you are saying but one does not necessarily lead to the other.

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You have 5 council members now and they are not districted. You can have 8 elected at large. Once does
not mean the other is a foregone conclusion and you should not have that in your mind that just doing one
suggests the other.

Commissioner Armas asked don’t we currently only have 7 seats (meaning physical seats available in the
chambers).

Commissioner Larsen would like to respond to Ms. Day. You may have the ability to read minds. What
he believes Ms. Kring said was that there is a good old boys network and the more you add to it the more
difficult it will be to sit in a back room and make a deal.

Commissioner Ma’ae asked that is what you believe was literally said?

Commissioner Real said that is not what she said which raised discussion among all committee members.

Mr. Lynn said it is not particularly productive to parse the council member’s words.

Chair Pham asked if you could repeat rule #4. Own your own words. The one that says if someone is not
here.

Mr. Lynn said Own your own words.

Chair Pham agreed yes that was the one that she wished to be reiterated. He doesn’t mean to denigrate
anyone’s research but you can find any number of sources either for or against both sides of the argument.
The point is they do it every way, everywhere. This is here. This is now. The question is, what are you ten
people going to decide, that you can recommend to your city council that they can consider. That is the
only question before you.

Commissioner Lopez asked to talk to fellow committee members particularly the ones favoring the
number six. We all came here with an open mind and this is a public meeting, where we want the
residents of Anaheim to come out and speak. The City of Anaheim did a great job bringing forward a
number of experts. Mr. Lopez said that he never heard any of the experts. We kept hearing the number 8,
so if we are to sit here, and ignore what they are all demanding or asking for, then we could have this
meeting behind closed doors and ignore the reality. The public is asking for 8 members based on statistics
and numbers that are real, what the city of Anaheim residents need and deserve.

Commissioner Ma’ae said Mr. Lopez the organization OCCORD has done an excellent job of bringing
forward the number 8. They have been exemplary in coordinating among the people in this audience in
those neighborhoods, who are disenfranchised.

Commissioner Lopez said but OCCORD is not running the city, Ms. Ma’ae.

Commissioner Ma’ae said that’s right, Mr. Lopez. That is my point. It’s interesting that everyone who has
had a number in mind has mentioned the number 8. Where did they get that number? Do you recall the
conversation that we had in the parking lot with the member of OCCORD and he said to me that the only
way that the undocumented person is going to have a voice in our government, in our electoral process, is
through 8 districts. Commissioner Ma’ae said that Commissioner Lopez was a witness to that. Now, is
that something that she is supposed to calmly and agree that they should have 8 districts so that some of

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my family members who are here who are undocumented, which we are working on that legally and
getting them legalized, but am I supposed to sit here and put their voice before the rest of the city who is
here, registered to vote. Everyone deserves a voice, absolutely. Believe me, my background is one that
my parents were immigrants, they came over here the hard way as they say. She has family members who
are here unfortunately not documented. They’re not proud of that. She is proud of them for coming for a
better life, and a better way. That is the reason the majority of immigrants come to this country. As a
young lady said earlier, there are other ways to go about this. It is not to come in and change the charter of
our city for their voice. We all are entitled to that voice. It’s not just the select few.

Commissioner Lopez so that you feel that everyone that came, do you feel that most are undocumented.

Commissioner Ma’ae said no absolutely not.

Commissioner Lopez said then said that we heard one of the public speakers saying earlier that taxation
without representation is not fair. Everyone is paying taxes. Everyone is working. He doesn’t want to
question people’s document status and say they don’t deserve to be represented because they are
undocumented.

Commissioner Ma’ae said you’re right. They do deserve to be represented.

Commissioner Lopez said everyone represents representation. He is going from public comments and
experts in the field. Anaheim is a big city and the 5 city council size was instituted in the 1857 and it’s so
long overdue.

Commissioner Real being that we cannot reach an agreement or a consensus. The reason why I am here
and why I believe everyone is here is to make a recommendation to the city council. We don’t have to
give them any numbers. We can tell them it is the public’s opinion that the council size ought to be
increased based on how we determine the districting issue.

Mr. Lynn said that Commissioner Real’s comment was a valid one and if you like something you here let
me know. What we are trying to do is get to a recommendation that you can forward to the mayor and
council. If numbers become the problem, Commissioner Real is suggesting that you not use the numbers.
Just recommend the concept of an increased number of seats.

Commissioner Real said let the voters suggest the number.

Commissioner Armas said he likes what Commissioner Real is saying but what he is confused about is
how you get to those numbers and it’s not really our job to do that. He said it seems that we all agree that
there should be an increase. There are different ideas on the number.

Chair Pham had a response to Commissioner Ma’ae and then she would like to make a recommendation.
Everyone is welcome. There has been a lot of outreach from the community and asking to have their
voice be heard and she has not heard a lot of people, except for Ron Bengochea, that they are against
districting. In past meetings 22 people have made comments in support of districting or change to
districts. Six have made public comments opposed to districts. Today you know we have continued to
hear 8 districts repeatedly. Are we going to just dismiss this public concern? Chair Pham doesn’t think we
should. We were charged to listen to the public. We were charged to listen to the experts. This is what we
are hearing. They want 8 districts.

Page 16 of 39
Mr. Lynn corrected her by saying did you mean to say they want 8 council member seats?

Chair Pham said yes, sorry, she meant to say 8 council member seats.

Mr. Lynn said so how we get them we can discuss in a moment. So your statistics go more toward item 3
than item 2? However, I take that as listening to the public.

Chair Pham confirmed that was correct. So, it does not look like we are reaching a consensus. She would
like to recommend that we go back to what Mr. Lynn recommended in the beginning that we recommend
to the city council an increase in number of seats to 6 or 8?

Mr. Lynn said that there are two perfectly clear ways to go. As Commissioner Real said you can
recommend an increase and perhaps ask the public what the right number might be. It could at some
point be put on the ballot and they public could vote on how many representatives you have. That is one
suggestion.

Mr. Lynn’s suggestion earlier that there should be an increase but you couldn’t come to a consensus on
the number so that the two numbers that were discussed most were 6 council members plus a mayor or 8
council members plus a mayor. That may suggest to them what they put out to the public for a choice to
vote upon.

Commissioner Armas said that seemed fair.

Commissioner Day said that if she may appeal to her fellow commissioners, if we go large, we can’t go
backwards. We can always grow. If we were seven member council it could grow bigger, but once you
have gone big you can’t go backwards.

Mr. Lynn said so it seems it would be prudent to consider incremental growth to limit the
recommendation to 6.

Commissioner Day said yes. If she is not mistaken when we took the first vote we had 5 for 6 members, 4
for 8 and one abstention. Wouldn’t that be a majority?

Mr. Lynn said yes it would be at that time but we hadn’t had the discussion. He said that he is all about
hearts and minds changing.

Chair Pham said she didn’t hear anyone changing.

Mr. Lynn continued when you hear something new sometimes that allows for change. So the question is
has the discussion you have had with one another changed anyone’s opinion. Is it fair to recommend that.

Commissioner Edinger said she thinks it’s fair to say that we recommend that you increase the size and
state that so many members voted for 6 and so many voted for 8.

Chair Pham asked if we could have a motion.

Page 17 of 39
Commissioner Edinger made the motion to state that there was a recommendation to increase the size of
the council and those 5 members voted for 6 council members plus a mayor and 4 members voted for 8
council members plus a mayor and there was 1 abstention.
Vice Chair Dalati seconded.
Commissioner Lopez asked if this was a compromise.
Many said yes.
Commissioner Olesen said he doesn’t think it’s a compromise. They agree the numbers of council seats
should increase but the numbers that were talked about were either 6 or 8 plus the mayor. The council
certain isn’t beholden to go with those but that is what our recommendation would be.

Mr. Lynn said he would like to be clear that the recommendation needs to be reflective of the discussion.
The discussion was between 6 and 8 but I did not hear another number. He did not hear another number
come up.

Commissioner Olesen said that’s where just making the recommendation that it should just be increased,
he is not sure that that is much of a recommendation or a help. He thinks being specific parameters will be
a better recommendation.

Mr. Lynn said I think Commissioner Edinger’s recommendation reflects that.

Vice Chair Dalati said he would like to clarify something. We did here from many who recommended 8
or 7. It’s important to have an odd number.

Chair Pham said 8 plus the mayor.

Vice Chair Dalati said Commissioner Edinger’s motion solved that and would work.
Chair Pham said let’s put this motion to a vote for the citizens of Anaheim like Commissioner Real has
requested.

Mr. Lynn restated that what Chair Pham asked is a change in the motion.

Chair Pham said yes.

Commissioner Edinger made the motion to state that there was a recommendation to increase the size of
the council and those 5 members voted for 6 council members plus a mayor and 4 members voted for 8
council members plus a mayor and there was 1 abstention with the final number to be taken to the public
for vote.

Commissioner Day suggested that language is really not necessary because we are a charter city any
change to council would have to go to the public for a vote. It is not necessary to add that language.

Commissioner Edinger made the motion to state that there was a recommendation to increase the size of
the council and those 5 members voted for 6 council members plus a mayor (Olesen, Edinger, Armas,
Day, Ma’ae) and 4 members voted for 8 council members plus a mayor (Dalati, Pham, Diaz, Larsen) and
there was 1 abstention (Real).

Commissioner Edinger said that her motion stood as originally stated. Commissioner Real seconded. Vice
Chair Dalati said he already seconded.

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Ayes – 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes – 0
The motion passed.

Mr. Lynn confirmed the numbers as they stood above. He said you are now through with a third of the
evening. He said now we will move on to discussing how the Mayor is elected.

b. How Mayor is to be elected

Commissioner Real said that it was important that the mayor not run for another office while
serving.

There was discussion of possible options of how the mayor will be elected including at-large
voting by the people or rotating with the other council selecting the mayor.
Mr. Lynn asked if that was prohibited.

Mr. Tyson, Deputy City Attorney, said he cannot definitively say that it’s prohibited in the
State of California. What he has sees it that a public official may have to resign their office
before they can run for another office. Mr. Tyson said he believes that the law frowns upon
that type of law unless they have been elected to the second office, then they cannot hold two
offices at once.

Mr. Lynn cautioned the committee against making any recommendation that was specific to
any individual, in that you don’t know who is going to occupy the seats and who they are in
the future. I suggest very strongly that you try not to box people in too badly. Let people
stand up for whatever it is that they do and be accountable that they do and be accountable to
people for whatever they do and they have to be accountable to the laws, whatever the laws
are.

Commissioner Edinger said she would recommend the mayor be elected by the public since
they are ultimately accountable to the public. She would like a mayor who is accountable to
the individual and not to the other council members.

Mr. Lynn said, At-large and by the entire community.

Commissioner Edinger said yes.

Others agreed.

Commissioner Armas expressed that he had a problem with them electing their own mayor.

Chair Pham also said especially with a city our size, because we are so large, we need one
mayor who represents all.

Commissioner Olesen asked if he was the only one who remembered when Anaheim elected
their mayor on a rotating basis and shared the history and some of the inherent problems with
a mayor selected by other council members. Commissioner Olesen discussed Anaheim
history, asking other members if any of them remember when Anaheim did have a rotating

Page 19 of 39
 mayor. He indicated it was extremely inefficient. It was suggested by Commissioner Olesen
that a rotating system would be moving backwards and could result in a biased council. From
his understanding, the thought it that the Mayor has one vote, same as other council members.

Mr. Lynn asked if anyone would like to take an opportunity to defend the concept of a mayor
elected by their council members on a rotating basis.

Commissioner Real responded. Yes. He is a representative of the city. He hears that there are
many people saying that they do not have representation. That mitigates that question but the
city mayor is serving the people not of the city. He is a representative of the city like a king or
a queen, socially.

Mr. Lynn said as a part of your city charter you have a weak mayor system, and I don’t mean
that pejoratively. That is the form of government you have: a council-manager form of
government which basically means that the mayor basically presides at council meetings and
has other ceremonial functions that he may perform as mayor, but he has no more power than
that by and large. Mr. Garcia, do you want to address that.

Deputy City Manager Garcia said you are correct. It does provide him a few other special
powers but he essentially with the mayor-city manager system, it does provide him with a
few other specific duties but that is correct.

Commissioner Lopez supports that the mayor be elected at large by the public and maybe
with regard to the charter, we suggest he has more power in order to address those concerns.
From his fellow committee members if they increase the size of the council if the council
fights over resources, it might be good if the mayor can balance or counter balance those
resources and reasonable requests.

Motion: Vice Chair Dalati motioned that mayor be elected at large.

Commissioner Edinger seconded the motion.

Ayes – 9 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham) Noes – 1 (Real)
The motion passed.

Mr. Lynn stated that they are now two-thirds of the way done. At the heart of this entire process that the
current form of election needs to be reviewed. He stated that he didn’t say changed, he said reviewed. The
mayor and council have charged this group with reviewing the current process. Your charge is to
determine whether or not it should be changed and if so what manner. The first question is, and you’ve
already made a recommendation for some change with regard to increasing the size of the council, your
recommendation is actually 6 and 8 for the council and a mayor elected at large. It does not say how those
are to be elected. Here are the choices that have come out of your record.

c. Electoral process
There was discussion on the options:
 At large(7 or 9 seats)
 By district, single member (5,7,8,9)
 Hybrid from district, elected at large
 Cumulative
Page 20 of 39
  Ranked choice voting

Mr. Lynn asked if there are any of the choices that they would like to eliminate.
Chair Pham recommended that they eliminate cumulative and ranked choice.

The committee decided to eliminate cumulative and ranked choice.

Chair Pham motioned to eliminate cumulative and ranked choice voting options.
Vice Chair Dalati seconded the motion.

Ayes – 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes – 0
The motion passed.

There was discussion on how the possible options, such as hybrid voting.

Commissioner Armas suggested he liked hybrid if 4 candidates were elected by district and 4 were
elected at large. That would be a total of 8 candidates and they could only canvas their own area. This
would address some of the concerns we heard regarding cost, limiting people to their area, yet providing
overall representation so that citizens are allowed more opportunity for representation. He believes that
the cost would be limited. This would allow the city to have direct representation but still be united.

Commissioner Real agreed.

Mr. Lynn said we have two people who agree with this.

Commissioner Lopez said he wanted to go by districts.

Chair Pham said she would like to see a move to districts, as well.
Commissioner Lopez said that if we go with electing the mayor at large, it made sense to elect council by
district. He understood with hybrids that some might be elected at large and he wants to give every single
neighborhood the opportunity to elect the candidate of their choice and feel represented.
Vice Chair Dalati said the thing he does not like about at large and he has run for office before, is that
running at large is it’s really very expensive, $150,000-300,000.
Commissioner Larsen said that just a point of clarification, with this last election two candidates spent
over a million dollars and that was not out of their own pockets.

Commissioner Day said as a reminder with what they saw in San Jose model, their district 8 spent a
million dollars in the last election. So special interests can still get involved in district elected cities. Ms.
Day began to speak and Mr. Lynn interrupted.

Mr. Lynn interrupted to remind Member Day thatwhen you make a declarative statement like that without
a fact to back it up, you could have 15 council members and depending on how they ran, who ran, how
they were financed, who turned out and what the election turnout was, you could have 15 people not of
color. What you are trying to do here is take what you have heard from people in the community who
have said they need representation, now how best to get that to them?

Commissioner Day remarked that her comments were based on the last election.

Page 21 of 39
Mr. Lynn said but we can’t do that. He said that earlier you made a statement in Anaheim’s last election
that had there been two more, you named who it would have been. We can’t do that. That’s not at all true
because if 4 seats had been up, more people may have run. You don’t know who would have run last
time.

Commissioner Day said she was again basing it on the last election.

Commissioner Ma’ae said that in the last election, for example the two who came in third and fourth
would have gained a seat based on the candidates who were running.

Mr. Lynn commented on the argument indicating you can’t put the two together and make a conclusion.
Commissioner Day said then let me restate this, if the council was to grow to 7 or 9 council members,
something that is true that each Anaheim resident would have 7 to 9 people accountable to them whereas
if we are district, they would only have one person accountable to them. That is true.

Mr. Lynn said that is absolutely true.

Chair Pham would like to make a comment about Commissioner Day’s comment about diversity. Ms.
Pham said we keep coming back to needing racial representation on the city council and she thinks that is
really incorrect. Ms. Pham said she thinks that the public wants a representative from their neighborhood.
Chair Pham doesn’t think that they necessarily want a Latino on the city council, they want someone who
represents them from their neighborhood.

Vice Chair Dalati asked to speak in response to Commissioner Day and Commissioner Edinger. This
word special interest keeps coming up and I think we can agree special interests are always going to be
here. Mr.Dalati thinks the reason that we are all here is the interest of the people and while special interest
are not going away who want this or that. He doesn’t think we should care about it.

Commissioner Ma’ae said she wished that they could have elections where we could not have to worry
about special interest groups but our meetings have been a prime example of groups organizing and of
getting together and putting a group of statistics together and scripted material for individuals to speak to
at the podium. To address your comment about the public comments, yes they have been and she wished
that more people would have come to these meetings and spoken during public comment and stood at that
podium to make their voice heard instead of speaking just directly to me because I am trying to express
their interests and be representative of the city as a whole. It doesn’t help me if people don’t come to the
podium. Ms. Ma’ae said she is one person and she does not have an organization behind her to gather
behind her to speak to the individuals on the point she wished to emphasize.

Vice Char Dalati said he totally agreed and maybe this is just the style of the special interest groups that
you are talking about. Other interest groups make phone calls behind the scene and they influence a lot of
people. Let’s really think about the people of Anaheim.

Commissioner Ma’ae said it does work both ways.

Commissioner Larsen said Vice Chair Dalati with all due respect to you and you are very highly regarded,
there are special interest people on this committee. They do know who they are and Mr. Larsen said he
knows who some of them are but let’s not forget why we are here. This wasn’t because the city council

Page 22 of 39
got together and said we should do something for the betterment of Anaheim. We are here because Los
Amigos partnered with the ACLU and to sue the City of Anaheim on behalf of the majority of the people
Anaheim. That is why they are here. What is going to happen which I have tried to point out is that a lot
of money has been spent yet nothing has been done. He tried to point out tonight that the Anaheim Union
High School District is facing the same challenge with districting. Why? Because they have the same
pressures on them. Here’s what is going to happen in Mr. Larsen’s opinion: The judge has already said
he’s postponed any decisions until July additional time until this committee concludes their work and
determine what the city council would like to do. If the city council does not go with districts, the lawsuit
will continue on. If the judge decides we will lose the lawsuit. Every expert who has come in has said the
precedent is there and we’re going to lose the lawsuit. Let’s get real; let’s get practical and leave our
emotions aside. The City of Anaheim will spend an unknown amount of money to fight a losing battle of
a lawsuit and then we will lose the right to districting to the courts. The courts will take over that
responsibility. They will assign the people who will do the districting and the city of Anaheim will be left
out. Special interests, you bet. That is why we are sitting here. By the way the number of people on the
city council and the way in which they are elected don’t guarantee anything or the quality of the person.
That’s the right of the people to elect any lousy politician they may choose.

Mr. Lynn said that whether they are elected at large or by districts doesn’t guarantee it either.

Commissioner Larsen said to Commissioner Olesen that regrettably he is old enough to remember the old
method of the council directly electing their mayor in the 1970’s and the intent of going to a direct
election of mayor was anticipating that at some point the mayor of Anaheim would be a full time job,
which it basically is now and the city council are.

Commissioner Olesen said that’s always been a part of the discussion that the entire city council should
be a full time job not a part time job as it is now.

Chair Pham wanted to comment on the lawsuit. Ms. Pham stated that the ACLU was probably going to
win the lawsuit and she asked if the committee wanted to make the decision for the city of Anaheim to
move to districting or do we want the courts to decide. That’s something she’d like to remind the fellow
commissioners.

Commissioner Larsen and Commissioner Ma’ae said yes, we want to decide.

Commissioner Real said the districting is not going to be an easy task. Mr. Real said that if we select an
equal number of representatives/candidates or residents to be covered by a council member, that means
that he may not necessarily have a candidate of their choice being elected. If the public wants to see a
Hispanic being elected and the district goes beyond the Hispanic neighborhoods, that doesn’t necessarily
ensure that the public will be able to select the candidate of their choosing.

Mr. Lynn indicated that candidate of choice is a function of people in an area or a district. Voting for a
candidate and having that vote count meaning it produced an elected official versus having someone like
you are different. There is no guarantee on anything. What you are trying to do is give the issue the best
chance of success based on everything you have heard and everything you know. Mr. Lynn said he would
like to go back to Commissioner Armas’ suggestion and move through these. Please correct me if I mis-
state this. Commissioner Armas suggested that you go with a hybrid with 4 of the 8 selected city wide
plus the mayor, and then four from specific districts.

Page 23 of 39
Commissioner Ma’ae asked if you meant 4 of the 8 or 3 of the 6.

Mr. Lynn said it could be either/or 4 of the 8 or 3 of the 6 because you have not made a firm
recommendation on the number.

Commissioner Armas said it would be easier to make it simple with 8 because you could stipulate that
you must live in that area. If you look at LA County they don’t even live in the area. We have had the
same problem in Anaheim where they were actually renting a house within one block of the city, basically
the carpet bagger syndrome that a lot of young people don’t know what that means. It is rampant. If we
went with a hybrid type of system we could ensure some type of 2-3 year residency inside that district,
hold them a little more accountable because we really can’t trust anything a politician says.

Mr. Lynn said he is not going to comment on that but take the suggestion, that whichever number of seats
the council may have that half of them be city wide (at-large) and half of them be elected by district and
then the mayor elected at large. Mr. Lynn asked if that suggestion has traction.

Commissioner Lopez said no.

Commissioner Real agreed with the suggestion.
Commissioner Pham asked if they should go one by one.
Commissioner Real said he agreed with that because if the city is just divided by numbers of population,
it’s a losing proposition but this way guarantees that each area would be represented by somebody.

Mr. Lynn said either 4 people or 6 depending upon the size of council. Mr. Lynn noted that
Commissioner Larsen was speaking against that.

Commissioner Larsen said absolutely against it because there are a couple city council people who
couldn’t find West Anaheim.

Commissioner Armas said they’re not here Mr. Larsen; we’re not supposed to do that. Mr. Lynn thanked
Mr. Armas as it saved him from not doing it.

Mr. Lynn said is there anyone else who would like to jump on to those suggestions.

Commissioner Armas had one last comment and what he said is really turning him off from districting is
that you have heard all the talk about Anaheim Hills vs. the flatlands and the other areas. To him, there is
already a division that is pretty resentful with a lot of residents and Member Day came up with a statistic
last meeting that Anaheim Hills actually had a slower response time than the west. There are a couple of
other things that they are probably not aware of. There are a couple other things with the fact that
Anaheim Hills is newer. They are now mandating more parks and open spaces. That was privy to the
older Anaheim. You can’t compare them. You can drive up there and see more green areas but that’s how
they are being developed in the newer areas. They have to its law. The district part is dividing our city
again with resentment. If you are one block out of that district you’re out of luck because if you have a
situation over there that is a hazard or blighted, you’re just going to have to look at. If you can’t get
someone from that part of the city to look at it you’re out of luck. He said he thinks that we really need to
be able to hold our politicians accountable.

Mr. Lynn said if I understand you correctly you are offering a compromise between half elected at large
and half districts with the mayor elected at large.

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Commissioner Armas said yes.
Commissioner Armas was under the impression regarding what Mr. Larsen said that the lawsuit did not
dictate districts or our voting. In fact, we don’t even know if we have broken any laws although they have
cited a lot of case references. Mr. Armas said it is his impression that the committee is here to look at
different alternatives with voting and not to mandate it because anybody can sue anybody.

Mr. Lynn said I want to talk about the lawsuit for a moment. I’d like to ask which of you is the judge that
is hearing the lawsuit.

Someone said none.

Mr. Lynn said that is correct. The point of that is, that person will determine if there is merit and if so,
what that merit is. My point is that you are not hearing that case tonight. That is not your job. Your job is
to provide the mayor and council with the benefit of your wisdom from everything you know.
Commissioner Dalati, go ahead.

Vice Chair Dalati said again we’re forgetting we are only making a recommendation and that the people
who sit behind us here (the city council) are going to make the final recommendation in the end.
He would like to ask Mr. Tyson if the lawsuit is asking for districting or are they just exploring methods.

Mr. Tyson replied, I think you are asking what remedy is the lawsuit asking for. Is it asking for districts or
just change in general.

Vice Chair Dalati said that is right.

Mr. Tyson said he doesn’t have the pleading memorized but his understanding was the remedy
recommended in the suit was districts.. As we heard from some of political science experts, it’s not the
only remedy that might be heard by the judge under hearing a case.

Vice Chair Dalati asked again so the lawsuit is about districting.

Mr. Tyson said that the lawsuit is seeking a remedy for the alleged violation of the California Voting
Rights Act. He believes that it proposes as most lawsuits do, that if you were suing for a slip and fall, it
would propose that you get some money damages and perhaps some other things. He believes the remedy
that the lawsuit proposes is districts but that is not to say that is the only kind of remedy that a judge could
order if there were a violation.

Vice Chair Dalati said he believes they should eliminate the hybrid method and consider districting or
not. That is his opinion.

Mr. Lynn said he only had two people supporting hybrids, the maker and one other.

Commissioner Lopez asked to address Commissioner Armas idea with hybrid regarding someone renting
a house. That is particularly the problem and the risk we run with a hybrid system coming from an area
just renting a house and knowing that he doesn’t get to be elected by the people in that district yet people
from other areas electing him. So is he truly going to be representing the interest of those people in that
community or someone else’s interest? That is his issue with the hybrid. That is why Mr. Lopez believes

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that we should make the move to districts. You must live in your district and that way you would be
accountable only to those people in your district.

Commissioner Larsen said that hybrid could support special interests and in this city there is one special
interest.

Mr. Lynn said there are two forms of hybrid, Commissioner Armas is suggesting one. In the other each
member of a district runs in a primary, and is nominated but is elected citywide. That is a different type of
hybrid. There are other cities that use that. The way the argument goes and it’s not Mr. Lynn’s position
but the argument goes: the benefit of that type of hybrid is that even though districts are represented,
everyone gets to vote in the final analysis for all members of the council. That is a different type of
hybrid. I would like to have you consider them both to see if there is traction before we cut to the chase
and consider just at-large or district elections.

Commissioner Edinger wanted to expand upon what Commissioner Armas had said and why she is not in
favor of districts. Anaheim is already divided between who lives in Anaheim Hills and who doesn’t. Ms.
Edinger said she does not live in Anaheim Hills, and she understands what a lot of people are saying
about feeling not represented. She thinks having districts is only going to divide us even more. Keith
could live in my neighborhood; she could want one thing and Keith could want another. You can’t
assume just because the person we elected is from our neighborhood, is going to represent every single
member in that district. We talk about special interests, does Disneyland get its own member? Does it get
its own district? Do the people who live right near Disneyland, are they going to get any representation
when they are in the same district as the special interest? She sees the problem and shares some of the
concerns that are being brought up. Ms. Edinger said she believes it is putting a band-aid on a gaping
wound, in her opinion.

Commissioner Armas said with some of the reading he’s done that districts started on the East Coast but
they were basically phased out because of their corruption. It wasn’t his thinking. It may not be perfect;
but that is what we are here to discuss. We are trying to get to discussing something that basically failed
as it began. We’re trying to make a recommendation and just ensure we’re not going backwards again.

Mr. Lynn said he still only has two people supporting hybrid.

Commissioner Olesen said he is for eliminating hybrid.

Commissioner Day said that her heart is for at-large, but she is considering what Commissioner Armas
and Commissioner Real are discussing the at-large district model which is being used in Santa Ana right
now. She supposes that in an effort to show to good faith, she thinks it is something reasonable to
consider. What she is trying to say is that for core principle reasons, she believes in the at-large system.
The lawsuit was brought up. Something that she finds confusing is that the lawsuit doesn’t talk about
geography. It’s very specific language that is race based. The goal post is constantly changing with that.
Ms. Day said that we have people here on the dais who are saying it’s regarding area representation; that
is not the language at all that is specified in the ACLU lawsuit. It’s actually very ugly language that is all
about skin color and it’s very disturbing. She loves what she heard from Dr. Patricia who spoke about Dr.
Martin Luther King. We have had that other gentleman who spoke about what matter is what is on the
inside. Commissioner Day said she believe that it’s what is on the inside that matters. That is who she is.
Ms. Day believes that districts are the opposite of that. She believes it’s a model of reverse racism to be

Page 26 of 39
truthful with you based on the language that is dictated in the lawsuit. She is very opposed to single
member district elections.

Vice Chair Dalati asked Mr. Tyson if it’s based on representation or is it based on race.

Ms. Day said its race; its 100% based on race.

Mr. Tyson replied if you are asking about the lawsuit. Under the California Voting Rights Act, it is based
on ethnicity; it is not based on geographic issues.

Chair Pham said she would like to make a comment to Commissioners Armas and Edinger again a quote
from Dr. Sarah Hill, she said that corruption is not a districts vs. at-large issue. It is an issue inherent in
politics. The factors causing corruption that led to the adoption of at-large districts in the 1930’s no longer
exists today. She also said that she thinks that districting adds cohesion to the city if everyone feels like
they have a voice and are part of the process instead of some folks feeling as if they are left out.
Representation from neighborhoods can help make sure that resources are divided in a way that is both
equitable and well thought-out.

Commissioner Armas said that they based that on Republican and Democrat parties.

Chair Pham said based what on.

Commissioner Armas said the districting and the corruption was based on the party affiliation. While she
said that doesn’t happen anymore, we do have special interests.

Chair Pham made a rebuttal.

Vice Chair Dalati said can we vote to take hybrid off?

Mr. Lynn said he felt there were still three people that he knows that were in favor of hybrid that
Commissioner Armas recommended.

Commissioner Day clarified with the three people being Commissioner Real, Commissioner Armas and
myself? To show good faith in an effort to come up with a solution, she believes that she feels that would
be a better solution than districting.

Mr. Lynn said to Ms. Day that he understood that you are coming to it reluctantly because you do feel
strongly that your point of view going in was in support of at-large. Ms. Day you are willing to support
this in the interest of compromise. Mr. Lynn said he would like to see if anyone else is in agreement.

Commissioner Armas wanted to interject again. Mr. Lynn said he believes that Mr. Armas has already
said everything. The reason he said it is just a recommendation and we could refine it so we are not
locked in to just one system. We would have a lot of longitude here whereas the districts just lock us in to
one way.

Commissioner Ma’ae said she would be open to hybrid because she feels single member districts are not
productive and hybrid would allow everyone to have a voice. It makes it so that only people in that
district have a voice.

Page 27 of 39
Mr. Lynn said that was four.

Commissioner Edinger asked if Commissioner Armas’ suggestion was in agreement with Commissioner
Day that her recommendation would be to continue with at large but with a recommendation to consider
hybrid as an option.

Commissioner Day said she liked how Commissioner Edinger phrased it better.

Mr. Lynn said that is different from what was said by Commissioner Armas.

Commissioner Edinger asked Commissioner Day if she would prefer the at large with hybrid as an
alternate.

Commissioner Armas said that the hybrid system would satisfy a lot of the things that we need to look at
but it would also give us the opportunity to expand upon it.

Commissioner Edinger said that is different than what Sandy and I would recommend.

Commissioner Armas said if we go to at-large; you’re locked in to that. If you go to districts; we’re
locked in to that. Hybrid is the only one that he feels gives you some latitude and would allow you some
ability to adjust it.

Mr. Lynn said make no mistake the hybrid system has a district function built in to it.

Commissioner Armas said he understood that.

It’s just that there is a division of function within the hybrid option.

Commissioner Ma’ae said that within the hybrid option, you have some districts but you have an at large
voting.

Mr. Lynn said no that was not the case with Commissioner Armas’ suggestion. Half would be from at-
large and half would be from districts with the mayor being elected at large.

Chair Pham said that if Commissioner Ma’ae is suggesting the other hybrid model. She would consider
supporting the other district model of nominating the candidates by district and electing them at-large,
citywide.

Chair Pham said yes, that is correct.

Commissioner Larsen asked Commissioner Armas a question.

Mr. Lynn asked if Commissioner Ma’ae was changing.
Commissioner Armas said he actually liked the idea better of the candidates being nominated out of
districts and being elected at-large.

Mr. Lynn said he would get to Mr. Larsen. Mr. Lynn said he was hearing a shift here and he wanted to be
sure he understood clearly. So, now we are talking about having all candidates nominated from districts in

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a primary and being elected at large with the exception of the mayor who would also be elected at large
both in primary and in general. Commissioner Armas has now clarified that he is now supporting the
second hybrid model, nomination by district and general election at large.

Commissioner Armas said that is correct and the candidates would still need to reside in the districts.

Commissioner Larsen asked for clarification. Say we have 6 districts; every district would nominate
someone.

Commissioner Armas said that they would nominate someone from there district; there could be four or
five.

Commissioner Larsen said then someone from that district may not be elected.

Mr. Lynn said let me explain. If this explanation of hybrid is the one you want to go with, let me explain
what would happen. Districts would be drawn. Within that district people would run for office. The top
two for that seat would go forward from a primary election and then would be voted on citywide. The
winner of that city wide vote would hold that district seat.

Commissioner Larsen said so what we are saying then is that, he lives in Anaheim Hills, but I am going to
influence who is elected in the West Anaheim district.

Mr. Lynn said that is correct. He said he would like to point out that in that hybrid, and this is something
that happens all the time, that if two candidates go forward as top two; there may be a huge disparity
between the top two, the top and the second. Often times the result of the citywide election does not
produce the candidate of choice for that district by a majority vote.

Commissioner Larsen said so each of those candidates from West Anaheim would still have to campaign
city wide and they would still have to generate the money to do that and neither one may win.

No, Mr. Lynn said someone from each district will win. One of them will win. If you look at the entire
canvas of the final vote; it is possible that the winner of a district may be determined in another district
vote.

Chair Pham so this is like the Santa Ana model.

Commissioner Larsen said so just for kicks, the people in Anaheim Hills could all get together and elect
the lesser of the candidates in West Anaheim. So what are we accomplishing?

Commissioner Day said the West could do that for the East as well.

Commissioner Larsen stated we’re creating a bigger problem. Mr. Larsen said we’ve already created this
problem in California. Are you aware of how we elect people in primaries in California

Commissioner Larsen explained the top two vote getters run off for that office. It’s no longer by parties
any more. The top two vote getters will run off for that office. So if the top two vote getters for governor
happen to be Democrats; you have two Democrats running for the office of governor. You do not have an
alternative party. That would be what we’re doing here.

Page 29 of 39
Vice Chair Dalati said that he kind of like the concept. Running at large will always put you at the mercy
of special interest.

Commissioner Olesen said, Commissioner Dalati, running for office at all puts you at the will of special
interests.

Vice Chair Dalati said that if you run by district; it’s much more reasonable and there is less impact of
special interest.

Mr. Lynn reiterated to the committee that he wanted everyone to understand the difference and determine
if they were going to vote on it or eliminate hybrid. The committee started out favoring one type then
shifted to the other type of hybrid elections.

He restated the two types of hybrids:

 The first hybrid option brought about by Commissioner Armas where regardless of number of
seats half of the seats would be elected at large and the mayor would be elected at large; the other
half of the council would be elected by districts.
 The second hybrid system recommended by Commissioner Ma’ae would be where two
candidates are nominated in a primary from each district and then they would be elected in a
general election that was citywide.
Mr. Lynn’s question is do you want either one of them.

Commissioner Ma’ae if we did a hybrid where it is half voted on by the district and half voted on by at-
large; do you have an issue with that?

Commissioner Larsen said he absolutely has an issue with that because that gives the special interests a
foot-hold on who they are electing. All the special interests have to do then is elect half is to control the
city council which will continue to disenfranchise some of the districts that don’t have the money or the
support to run for office. You know Anaheim Hills that everyone vilifies, so they can collect all the
money and they can elect whomever they want, where West Anaheim, or Central Anaheim, or the Anna
Street group; they don’t have any money so they’re not going to be able to elect anybody.

Commissioner Ma’ae said but is it still the same concern that you had over an entire at large system with
individual districts.

Commissioner Larsen said, quite frankly, he doesn’t personally have a problem with at-large the way it is
now and he knows that is not the way it’s going to be. So, Mr. Larsen said that he is going to be pro-
active and practical to the point let’s control our destiny and let’s not accept the fate of a judge deciding
our destiny. That is where he’s coming from. At-large he is fine with. At-large or by district; neither
guarantee good representation either way. It also doesn’t say that you won’t have good representation..
You just have to see what we get. It all depends on what you think about what we have now versus what
someone else may think. What we are going to have versus what he wants are two different things.

Mr. Lynn said that is a very helpful clarification of a position.

Commissioner Real said voting at large, he thinks, that the voters do not go to the polls. When they have
district, and they have a personal interest in the district; they will go to the polls and vote.

Page 30 of 39
Mr. Lynn said is that a good thing.

Commissioner Real said, yes that is a good thing.

Others agreed.

Commissioner Real continued that they are complaining about not being represented by the city council.

Mr. Lynn said so let me ask the question again. Do either versions work for the committee.

Commissioner Day said if we as a committee had a problem understanding the hybrid model and the
various scenarios and here we’ve been studying this for as long as we have, she said she would like to
remove her recommendation for hybrid. If we’re confused by it; how do we expect 350,000 people to
vote on it or understand it.

Commissioner Olesen motioned to eliminate hybrid voting because it came about as a result of
compromise. He said the ultimate result of compromise often being mediocrity; he recommended
eliminating the hybrid options.
Commissioner Larsen seconded.
Ayes – 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes – 0
The motion passed.

Mr. Lynn reiterated their first decision regarding council size has been recorded. He said that you can
revisit it next week in the draft. It is now in the record.

Now he would like to discuss the at large vs. districting. His sense is that if he gave you three more hours
to discuss it you’d be at the same place as you are now. My guess is where you are is still where you are.
You have heard each other talk about it enough to know each other’s point of view enough to know what
the arguments are. Mr. Lynn said I don’t want you to consider the lawsuit in trying to determine what the
outcome will be; but that is certainly a reality is as well. To reflect Larry’s statement of his position
earlier, his position is driven by the fact that he would rather do it now, rather than be told he must do
something else.. Mr. Lynn suggested that he suggested that the committee may be at a point where you
may wish to take a vote by a show of hands and then take that discussion period to fashion a
recommendation that can be based on the vote. Vice Chair Dalati would like to say something.

Vice Chair Dalati directed his question to Mr. Tyson, the lawsuit has cost almost 400, 000 thus far, if we
were to say the City Council is going to go to districts right now, would that drop the lawsuit? Would it
be over?

Mr. Tyson, if I understand your question, if you recommend districts, does that end the lawsuit?

Vice Chair Dalati, said not me, but if the committee recommends districting to the City Council? Chair
Pham clarified if in July the City Council recommends a move to districts, would that put an end to the
lawsuit.

Page 31 of 39
Mr. Tyson said he can’t speak for the plaintiff’s attorney. He said the plaintiff’s attorney would have to
agree that that settles the case or they would have to dismiss the case. Mr. Tyson reiterated that he cannot
speak for the plaintiff’s attorneys. If council did approve the recommendation to districting, he said that
he is sure that the plaintiff would like to see it approved before the voters because it would have to be
approved by the voters as a charter change. There is certainly a good chance that would resolve the
lawsuit by agreement. There is a chance that any change that is recommended by the council could lead to
a chance that it would resolve the lawsuit.

Vice Chair Dalati asked if Mr. Tyson was aware of the situation with the City of Compton.
Mr. Dalati stated that Compton was forced to go to district elections.

Commissioner Day said it went to the vote of the people and they voted on it.

Vice Chair Dalati said they were forced by the court to go to districts.

Mr. Tyson said he did see the presentation on the City of Compton.

Commissioner Day said that is not accurate. Commissioner Day said it went to the vote of the people and
they voted on it.

There was a discussion about the fact that it hard to go to a vote with the public because Compton is a
charter city. Mr. Lynn said that any charter city would have to go to the public for a vote to make a
change to the charter.

Vice Chair Dalati was inquiring because Compton was sued by the same group that Anaheim had been
sued by.

Chair Pham moved that they take a vote to see how many are in favor of at-large or districts.

Mr. Lynn said how many of you are in favor of creating district elections in Anaheim. See results below.
He also asked how many support at-large. See results below.

d. At large vs. Districting for electoral system

There was a lengthy discussion after determining the committee was split 5 and 5.
Supporting maintaining at large election:
 Commissioner Olesen
 Commissioner Edinger
 Commissioner Armas
 Commissioner Day
 Commissioner Ma’ae

Supporting districting:
 Commissioner Larsen
 Commissioner Lopez
 Chair Pham
 Vice Chair Dalati
 Commissioner Real
Page 32 of 39
Given the split decision and further discussion, the committee determined it would be best to recommend
to the City Council that the issue be placed on the ballot for the people to vote on maintaining at large
elections or moving to districting. Mr. Lynn suggested there were two options as to how this could be
placed on the ballot. There was discussion of placing this on the ballot either for an advisory vote or for a
change to the charter which would include creation of districts and voting by district. It could be done
either way. You could make a recommendation as to how they would do it, however an advisory ballot is
not binding.

Commissioner Edinger asked if it would be less costly to have an advisory vote or opinion poll.

Mr. Lynn said that it would also be less official and have less validity to have an opinion poll rather than
an election. The cost for either type of election is likely it may cost the same.

Commissioner Olesen said I believe Commissioner Edinger was asking about the non binding advisory
vote.

Mr. Lynn said the non binding advisory vote and vote to change the charter would cost the same.

Commissioner Larsen pointed out that if you are concerned about money. What is being spent on the
lawsuit in court will be way more than an election, especially if it continues would certainly be more than
the cost of an election to vote on the issue.

Commissioner Olesen said it is money well spent.

Commissioner Real made a motion to let the people vote.

Commissioner Lopez seconded the motion.

Vice Chair Dalati clarified that the motion- the committee was unable to make a majority
recommendation, however the committee was firm in the recommendation that the mayor and city council
should refer the issue to the ballot to let the citizens vote.

Commissioner Larsen asked that the 5 who voted for at large, to use a little common sense and disregard
what they have been asked here to do and consider supporting district voting.

Commissioner Ma’ae responded that no one on council asked me to respond one way or another. Just
because we are involved in different functions and different support groups, that does not mean I don’t
have a mind of mine own or that I don’t represent people in my immediate neighborhood.

Commissioner Olesen said to Commissioner Larsen that you could be accused of the same thing. A
discussion broke out. Mr. Lynn said he didn’t wish to question anyone’s integrity.

Chair Pham said let’s go back to the motion at hand.

Mr. Lynn reiterated everyone here has their own opinions and they are entitled to vote them here on this
panel. That’s what you were asked to do. He does not believe it’s valuable to impugn anybody’s motives
or intentions. He said I consider every one of you to have pure motives and intentions because you are
here doing what you’re doing and you have spent the time doing it.

Page 33 of 39
Vice Chair Dalati said that he believes that the money being spent on the lawsuit is money that belongs to
the people of Anaheim and he believes they should have a say in whether they continue to spend it or end
the lawsuit.

Chair Pham said there was a motion on the floor and it had been seconded.

Commissioner Day asked for clarification on the motion.

Mr. Lynn clarified the original motion- the committee was unable to make a majority recommendation on
the methodology of election, however the committee was firm in the recommendation that the city council
refer the issue to the ballot to let the citizens vote on which methodology they prefer, at large or districts.

Commissioner Day said so the people will vote on at-large or districts and the majority wins. Ms. Day
said she was agreeable to that.

Commissioner Larsen asked do we want to recommend a special election or the very next general
election.
Some said right away. Some said general election. There was discussion.
Commissioner Ma’ae said let it be put to the vote of the people.
Mr. Lynn said you may impact the timing.
Commissioner Edinger asked if the recommendation will show that we were split evenly?
Mr. Lynn said yes. What Mr. Lynn said is I’m trying to get what you do agree on so there is some
semblance of this work, all of your time, and the many months you have spent goes to the mayor and
council with more than a 5-4 or 6-4 vote at the end. This is going to come back to you in a 3-4 page
document that has your recommendations in it. It will be your report to mayor and council. Mr. Lynn
wants it to firmly reflect what you think and feel so that when that vote happens on May 9th, it’s not 5-5.
He’s love that it be 10-0. Whatever we get to, I would like for you to have a much more affirmative
recommendation on the full report which will retain each of these recommendations. That’s why it’s
important for you to think about and vote on. You have a motion on the floor.

Commissioner Armas said what’s the motion.

The motion was made by Real to take a vote.

Commissioner Real made the original motion, Commissioner Lopez seconded the motion.

Ayes – 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma’ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes – 0
The motion passed.

Commissioner Lopez asked to make a recommendation that all the public comments, all the records of
expert’s comments, and all the discussion the committee had be included in the final report.

Mr. Lynn said he thinks they will be referenced and the record is public. The record is there.

Mr. Lynn is there any other business that you would like me to be involved in next time.
Commissioner Day would it be possible for us to get summaries of everything from this meeting tonight
and the last meeting before the next meeting so that we could study that.

Mr. Lynn said yes. You are going to have that the Monday before the next Thursday meeting.

Page 34 of 39
Commissioner Day clarified that it would be comprehensive of all the five issues?

Mr. Lynn said yes, it will be all outlined for you in report form. What I really need you to do is to take a
few minutes before the meeting to run through it and to make sure it fairly reflects what you did. If it
needs changes, that is the meeting where we will make the changes to make sure that at the end of the
meeting if you’re voting on the report, you’re not voting for any specific recommendation but you’re
voting that the report fairly reflects your work as a committee.

Commissioner Day asked if it would your preference if items from the last meeting wait to be discussed
until the next meeting.

Mr. Lynn asked do you have something you want to talk about now because you haven’t seen it in form.
He would like for you to see it in form before we discuss not just what may be wrong but how to change
it.

Chair Pham said that is what our next meeting is for.

Commissioner Day said okay, thank you.

Commissioner Lopez asked so you’re saying that we’re not only reviewing the report to make changes
but we’re also reviewing what’s been decided.

Mr. Lynn said Commissioner Lopez we’re not going to rework the recommendations. What you are going
to do is review the report and if it fairly represents what you did in these two meetings. For example, if
on the issue of the size of the council, if I neglected to indicate that this was 5-4-1, then you would add it.
That doesn’t bring the issue up again. It clarifies what needs to go in the report so you’re all in agreement
that that’s what happened.

Commissioner Day said so it’s only a confirmation of what occurred, so she would like to address some
items.

Mr. Lynn said no, it’s not just a confirmation of what occurred. It is for you to decide whether or not the
report as written fairly reflects what you did.

Commissioner Day said so we could amend it at that point.

Mr. Lynn said yes you could amend it, absolutely. And you can amend it specifically by adding words.
Come with those comments ready if you need to put an amendment forward and those will be voted on.

This was not easy and I know that but I wanted to say you are very close to the finish line. I thank you for
that. I want to say two things first. I again, want to applaud the time and energy that each of you has put
into this assignment.. Facilitation is sometimes not an easy job and sometimes it gets intense. If I
offended anyone here, I sincerely apologize.
Commissioner Real said he wished we started with the last point. It would have taken less time.

Chair Pham said she disagreed. She still believes it would have taken just as much time.

Page 35 of 39
Mr. Lynn said you may be right. You are now very close to the end of the process. I think you have done
good work. I think it is clear what you are saying to the mayor and council even when you don’t make an
affirmative recommendation, you are being clear about a path. I thank you for the opportunity to help you
do this work. I think it’s very important for the city and I applaud you for doing it.

Chair Pham thanked the facilitator.

Chair Pham would like to move on to closing comments from her fellow commissioners.

7. Committee Communications.

Action: Closing comments.

Commissioner Larsen thanked staff and the audience for their tenacity.

Commissioner Lopez said it’s been a long six months since the first meeting on October 18, six
months from today and he would like to thank all the residents that came out and gave input and the
committee listened. He hopes that the result with be the best for Anaheim.

Commissioner Real would like to share something that was said to him. I want to respect the right
your right to say what you want to say but I don’t have to agree with it. He wanted to thank the
audience primarily, the staff and technicians. Every member of the committee here has done a very
good job. Thank you.

Commissioner Ma’ae would like to say that she’s aware some of the comments she has made may not
be the popular thing to say. To have people personally attack you as you’re personally representing an
organization. Eric Altman speaks very freely his mind and his opinion. Even though he is not an
Anaheim resident, he’s here. He’s involved and he speaks his opinion. We should all be entitled to do
that. She would hope that everyone here is talking from their heart and their own personal
experiences. She is representing her neighborhood. She and her husband have dealt with challenges in
their neighborhood for over 10 years or more. They have opened their home to their neighbors and
they have had to combat gun violence, gangs, prostitution, and even some other issues that aren’t as
major. They did it at the risk of their own safety and safety of family. When you have issues such as
gangs in your neighborhood, she understands how it is frightening and intimidating. The residents in
these neighborhoods are fearful to address those concerns. Unfortunately that is something that not
any one of us here can help to end it. There are still gangs in her neighborhood. The beauty of it is
that the people are more empowered now with the help of city staff and the help of the police
department and no longer live with everyday fear. They have gotten a handle on it and minimize the
problem. When she spoke to the issue of people who are undocumented, she does have family
members who are dealing with that. She hopes that with immigration reform that it will improve and
she wishes to do more to help. She hears concerns of their family, neighbors, 300 family members
who represent every race and ethnicity, and are from more than 20 countries in our own family. That
is what she finds is the beauty of Southern California is the exposure to multiple cultures and her
children are exposed to so many cultures. It helps to broaden your mind and broaden your thought
processes that we can embrace our differences. Embracing the differences is really what community
involvement is all about; trying to understand one another, in addition to other support within the city.
She wants to help; she was raised to be compassionate. She can’t tell you how many people came
through her parent’s home and how many people have come through her home to get on their feet, to

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acclimate. She takes a lot of pride in that. She just wanted to be clarified that the reason she is here is
for the people not for special interests.

Vice Chair Dalati extended his thanks to facilitator, Steven Lynn. He applauded him. Thanks to
Vivian for the great job. She has us all under control. Mr. Dalati said that he came from a background
of living in a corrupt system where really you cannot even speak your mind. When he came here, God
Bless America, he was blessed by God and was able to accomplish a lot in with his business. He
wanted to run for office and serve; he was really excited about it. As he walked the streets of
Anaheim knocking on door, he has seen neighborhoods that remind him of where he came from with
potholes and neighborhoods that aren’t being taken care of. When he talked to some of these people,
they say the city doesn’t come here. There is no representation. People say he was first important
person even though he was just running for office to come here and knock on their door that was all
the way in West Anaheim. Then he heard that there were other neighborhoods under siege, as they
say, where people carry guns and people with drugs, where people are really afraid for their life. Then
there is some aggressiveness maybe by the police department. When he spoke to the police, they said
if we act aggressive people are against us. We don’t know where we stand. He thinks that back where
he came from its corruption; here its special interest. When you run for election you spend a lot and
you have to talk to each of the special interest. Sometimes they bless you and sometimes they will tell
you we need you to do this or that. Whether it’s called corruption here or it’s called special interest.
It’s the same thing in his opinion. He wants everyone on the committee to know that he has no
conflict with any of you and he loves everyone here. He knows he can ask any question of
Commissioner Olesen about Anaheim and whatever you tell me, I know it would be very credible
100%. We all love Anaheim; that’s why they are here and have our families at home or doing a
million things that we can do. So please understand that there is no conflict with you. Whatever I
vote, I would listed to either side. He was approached by both special interests. To him, if he voted
for districting, he can sleep very well at night. He feels that representation from that same
neighborhood would make a difference for that neighborhood.

Mr. Dalati thanked the audience and staff.

Commissioner Day said addressing this issue about special interest. She would like to share two
stories and she hopes it will help everyone understand. The first one is a personal story to help people,
to help Mr. Larsen understand who she is and why she made the decisions she did.
When she was a younger girl, in her 20’s she was a manager in a pharmacy. She was in charge of
time cards. She had a group of employees that she supervised, all sorts of colors of people who
worked at the pharmacy. There was one particular young lady who came late to work every day, from
breaks, from lunch. Sandy said that she had a difficult time letting her know that she was getting
complaints from fellow employees. She felt that she wasn’t good at confrontation. She finally got the
courage her know she needed her to be on time from her breaks and lunch. Her response to Ms. Day
was you’re only saying that to me because I’m black. That was the furthest thing from Ms. Day’s
mind because she doesn’t think that way. This was like 30 years ago. She regrets to this day that ever
since she said that to me, that she never corrected her again. She continued to come to work late,
come from lunch late, and come from breaks late. Ms. Day realized that she fell into a trap of treating
someone differently because she was afraid of being labeled a racist which she is not. Ms. Day said
she was young and now here we are 30 years later that she finds it fascinating to watch on a national
level, the narrative that you see is so divisive. She grew up here in Southern California and one of the
most wonderful things about growing up here is that it is a melting pot. She said she never felt
different than the kids in your classroom. She was raised by her parents with the idea that whatever

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you want to be, you can be whether it’s a doctor, a president. She believed that and she still believes
that. When she looks back and thinks about that employee and think about those words she said to
me. Somebody told her as a young person that she wasn’t equal because she was black. She was
repeating something she believed because she was told that. One of Ms. Day’s biggest concerns as
she sees a similar movement occurring in the Hispanic community is for our young Hispanic people
to buy into that lie. It’s a lie. We are equal. We all have the same opportunities. We all have the same
access to our government today and in the future whatever these recommendations turn out to be. She
doesn’t want anybody to believe that you don’t have that access because it’s not true.

The other thing she wanted to point out was the presidential election in 2008 it was a very exciting
historical moment for our country as we saw President Barack Obama become president, the first
black president. It was exciting and wonderful and not just our nation, but it was of international
interest. Particularly the black community was very excited, and she understands that particularly for
African American people and what they have experienced in the United States. The part that she
wants to bring up and she looked at some numbers studying this. There was such a great hope in this
president from the black community because of his skin color. So right now there are 39 million
African Americans in the United States, 13% of our population. However, the African Americans
demographic is actually suffering more than any other demographic in the United States and it’s
gotten worse since Barack Obama became president. She is not trying to disrespect the president.
What’s she is trying to teach is that her concern that the philosophy that she has seen expressed by
some speakers and even the lawsuit as what it claims that there was a sentiment that we want
someone to represent them that looks like them. Those are words that she has read and she had heard
in the ACLU lawsuit. The African American jobless rate is 13% considering among all Americans its
8.1%. 27% of African Americans live below the poverty line is that there was a great hope in the
black community by electing a black president. I share that because I think truth is important. In the
course of the meetings Ms. Day has had the privilege to meet with many community members who
have spoken here. When she is finished with her obligation here, she is committed to helping these
communities who need help. She doesn’t do that because her skin color is the same color as theirs, or
because she speaks the language that they speak. It’s what was said over and over again; it’s because
of what was on the inside of people. So when Mr. Larsen speaks about special interests, the special
interest that Ms. Day has are human beings and the City of Anaheim. Period. Thank you.

Commissioner Armas said what a country. We have been meeting for 6 months. The audience has
been here for 6 months. What did we come up with? Take it to the people for the vote. Isn’t that what
we’re all about. Thank you, Steve, for getting us this far. There’s respect, no animosity, and the
audience’s opinion. Where else can you do this? That’s what we live for it’s what we stand for.
It’s why we’re all participants in this process that we get through. He hoped it continues and
everyone’s opinions are out there as a lot of them were express. Whether we agreed or not, we came
back to letting the people.

Commissioner Edinger thanked everyone for their time and participation on the committee, city
personnel, and the audience members for their time and participation today.

Commissioner Olesen said that he also escaped tyrannical oppressive corrupt system. He was born in
New York. We escaped before it affected my mind too horribly. Quickly, I think this ended up where
a lot of people thought it would anyway, but he believes it was worth the process to get there. That’s
the main thing. Things were said and people we heard. One last comment: districts for election and
representation are a lot like airport security. As security; it’s a delusion. The quality of the person

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 elected is what counts not where they are from, where they live or anything else. That being said, he
looks forward to seeing everyone next time.

Chair Pham thanked the staff again, for all their hard work, long days and late nights. Thank you
Steve so very much. Ms. Pham said she thinks he had a really tough job here. Thank you for doing it
for us. As a former Political Science student, it’s been an amazing opportunity to be a part of this. She
loves this country. It’s what the democratic process is all about. We are able to say what we feel. As
residents, we can agree to disagree. We have our opinions and facts to back it up. She loves this
process. Unlike some other countries, they wouldn’t have a voice. If they spoke out they would get
shot or put in jail. It has been a long, hard, tough process over the last six months. It really tied us
down to this committee. Thank you to all of the committee members for your time, the work, and
research, and she looks forward to the final recommendations.

8. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned by Chair Pham at 9:55 p.m.
*****

Respectfully Submitted,

Caroline Morey
Recording Secretary

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