JACKSON V AEGLIVE June 4

th
2013
05/28/13 Please help us!
Paul Gongaware
(Co-CEO of AEG Live Concerts West, This Is It Producer)
Plaintiffs Adverse Witness.
Continued cross examination by Marvin Putnam:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Gongaware.
A. Good morning.
Q. How are you doing?
A. Good.
Q. Okay. So I'm going to pick up where we left off yesterday. As you recall, we were on Friday, June
19th. Mr. Jackson had left the rehearsal, and you were in Pennsylvania, is that correct, for a wedding?

A. Yes.
Q. And that was a Friday. The following day was saturday, June 20th. That was the day of your
wedding; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was also a day that you understood there was to be a meeting. You weren't in that
meeting; correct?
A. No.
Q. And do you understand where that meeting took place?
A. No.
Q. And that was on June 20th. And when did you return?
A. The night of the 21st.
Q. The night of the 21st. So that would be a Sunday, June 21st?
A. Yeah.
Q. Now, on Sunday, June 21, did you have an understanding as to whether Mr. Jackson rehearsed
that day?
A. No, I don't think he did.
Q. That's a Sunday. Did he generally rehearse on Sundays, do you know?
A. I don't know.
Q. So that's June 21st. The next day would be Monday, June 22nd. Do you have any understanding
as to whether Mr. Jackson rehearsed that day?

A. I don't think he did.

Q. And do you have an understanding as to why he didn't rehearse that day?
A. The 22nd and 23rd we were changing over from center staging -- excuse me. From the Forum to
Staples Center.
Q. And so why wouldn't he rehearse on that day if you were changing over from the Forum to the
Staples Center?
A. We would have been tearing down the set and everything in the Forum and prepping it to move to
Staples Center.
Q. And when you say "moving everything," what are you talking about?
A. Everything. Stage, sounds, lights, video, wardrobe, people. Everything.
Q. So that's where you go from inglewood at the Forum and then come downtown to here at the
Staples Center?
A. Right.
Q. And I'll show you what we've been looking at, the rehearsal venues. March 28th to may 27th,
Central Staging; may 27th to June 23rd, we're at the Forum; June 23rd we start at the Staples Center.
Now, you just said the 22nd and 23rd. Do you know if on the 22nd, that was a moving day?
A. It was move-out day.

Q. Move-out day. Now -- and why -- would you please remind us why you were moving from the
Forum to Staples?
A. Yeah. The Staples Center had a lot more trim height -- height above the stage -- so we could add
more gags and get our show closer to what it was going to be at the 02.
Q. And I'm going to show you an exhibit that you were shown last week by Mr. Panish. It's exhibit 8183
(shows document). Now, if you recall, you were shown this. It was to you from Bugzee, John
Houghdahl. Talks to you about "docu" in the re line.
A. Right.
Q. Will it help you out with a copy or can you see it okay there?
A. I got it.
Q. And goes on to say: "Further, to the earlier email, let's keep our 2 docu people out of here today
unless they stay in dressing room area only. Tomorrow is another story." That's on Monday, June
22nd. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember being asked about this email from Mr. Panish?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember stating at the time that you thought that may have been a day when the
production was moving?
A. I don't remember.

Q. You don't remember that? Well, I'll represent to you that you were asked that question, and the
follow-up was that you couldn't know for sure. I'd like to show you something, to see if it refreshes your
memory. And this is, exhibit number for trial, 7893 (shows document). I'm going to ask you to look at
that, sir. You needn't say anything about it, but if you look at it, I'd like to know if that refreshes your
recollection as to whether in fact the 22nd was a move-in day?
A. Apparently the move-in started, I think the transition started on the 22nd.
Q. Okay. And was completed on what day?
A. Would have been finished on the 23rd.
Q. So that refreshes your recollection that that definitely was the move-in days?
A. Yes.
Q. So the move-in days was the 22nd and the 23rd to the Staples Center. If those were the move-in
days, would you have wanted the documentary people there for the move-in?
A. I would have, because I like to get the shots of things moving. But Bugzee, I'm sure, wanted to
keep them out of the way.
Q. So when was the next -- let me get this right now. 20th is a Saturday; 21st is a Sunday; 22nd is a
Monday, that's a move-out day; 23rd is a Tuesday, it's a move-in day. Do you remember when the next
day was that Mr. Jackson actually rehearsed?
A. He rehearsed on the 23rd, was the next day he rehearsed, yeah.
Q. So the day he was cold and left was Friday, the 19th. The following Tuesday, the 23rd, was the next
day that he actually rehearsed; correct?

A. Yes.
Q. And did you see any of that performance?
A. I'm sure I saw some of it, but I don't think I watched the whole thing.
Q. Do you remember how Mr. Jackson appeared that day?
A. He was fine.
Q. In light of the emails that you received on the 19th, were you looking to see how he was?
A. It was my understanding, everything was fine.
Mr. Panish: Move to strike. No foundation for what his observations were.
Mr. Putnam: He said he was there, he just didn't see everything.
Mr. Panish: No.
Judge: Motion denied.
Q. Were you being particularly attentive that day?
A. No.
Q. And why weren't you being particularly attentive that day?
A. I didn't think there was a problem.
Q. Then on the 23rd, did anything arise where you learned there was a problem on that day?
A. No.
Q. Okay. The next day is the 24th; correct? That would be Wednesday, the 24th?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you at rehearsal that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you watch any of the performance that day?
A. I watched some of it.
Q. Okay. And what can you recall, as you sit here today, of Mr. Jackson's performance at the

rehearsals on the 24th?

A. Well, I remembered watching "Thriller" in its entirety, because that's the day we had costumes and
pieces in place, so -- and he was fine. He was good.
Q. Was he just fine?
A. Yeah, he was fine.
Q. Did he seem engaged?
A. Yes.
Q. Did there seem to be any physical issues that Mr. Jackson was having during that rehearsal?
A. No. I didn't notice any.
Q. Did anyone seem to be worried about him and express that worry during the rehearsal that you
saw?
A. No. I think the general consensus was, he did a good rehearsal.
Q. Do you recall around what time that evening you left?
A. No.
Q. Don't remember?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember whether you left before or after Mr. Jackson?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Would --
A. Usually I would stay until he was gone, but I don't remember that night specifically.
Q. So usually you would do that, you just don't know if you did it that night or not?
A. Right.
Q. That evening, where did you go afterwards?

A. I went home.
Q. Went home. And where is home?
A. Hermosa Beach.
Q. Home to Hermosa Beach. From the Staples Center?
A. Yes.
Q. And the next day, do you remember when you got up and started working?
A. It was in the morning. I don't know what time it was.
Q. And this is the morning of Wednesday, June 25th?
A. Yes.
Q. And as I'm sure you know, that was the day of Mr. Jackson's passing?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember how you learned that Mr. Jackson had passed?
A. Well, I got a call from Randy, and he said that he had a call from Frank, and Frank told him to get
over to the house right away. Something was going on. Randy said as he got there, the ambulance
was pulling out of the house, so he followed it to, I think it was UCLA Medical center.
Q. All right. And when you say "Frank," who do you mean, sir?
A. Frank Dileo.
Q. And who is Frank Dileo?
A. Michael's manager.
Q. So you had understood Michael's manager called Randy Phillips; Randy Phillips called you?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you thinking at that point? Mr. Jackson was -- you understood was on the way to the
hospital in an ambulance. Were you worried?

A. Yeah. I didn't know what was going on.

Q. If you can recall as you sit here today, do you recall what was going through your mind at that
point?
A. At that point I was just apprehensive because I didn't know what was happening.
Q. Do you recall whether you were surprised or not?
A. I don't remember. I was just -- it's a blur.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. It's a blur. I don't remember specifically.
Q. And who did you hear from next, if anyone, compared to what was going on with Mr. Jackson?
A. I didn't hear for a while, so I called Randy. I didn't know what was going on. And he said that
Michael had died.
Q. At that point were you surprised?
A. Yes.
Q. What was going through your mind at that point?
A. I don't know. I was just -- I was in shock.
Q. And why were you in shock, sir?
A. The artist was gone. He just passed away. It was just, like, how did this happen?
Q. Well, at that point did you have any idea how it had happened?
A. No.
Q. Did Mr. Phillips explain to you why Mr. Jackson passed?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any belief at that time as to how he might have passed?
A. No. I had no idea.

Q. At the point of Mr. Jackson's passing, did you have any idea that something like this would happen?
A. No. None.
Q. Had you contemplated the idea that Mr. Jackson might pass?
A. No. Never.
Q. What happened next, sir? Did you tell anyone?
A. Yeah. I called Kenny right away and told him. He was at Staples Center.
Q. What about anybody else? Did you let anybody else know?
A. No. Don't know.
Q. Did you end up going to the Staples Center at all that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. I don't know. I don't know.
Q. What was the atmosphere like?
A. Very somber.
Q. How long were you there?
A. For hours.
Q. You glad you went?
A. Yeah, I think so.
Q. After Mr. Jackson passed, it's wednesday, the 25th. Did you still have obligations in terms of the
production?
A. Did I have obligations? Yeah. To get it shut down and sent back.
Q. And you had mentioned briefly last week that there was a memorial service. Did you work
on that memorial service?

A. Yes.
Q. And how long after Mr. Jackson's passing was the memorial service?
A. I don't remember.
Q. I just want to go into a couple more things about that, sir. We had spoken briefly last week about
why the This Is It tour was going to be in London. Could you remind us as to why that was?
A. Well, it was his best market, and we wanted to go out into his best market, because we didn't know
-- we didn't know how strong it was going to be in the UK. We didn't know. We didn't have any way of
gauging the demand.
Q. Did you ever contemplate going to the United States?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Well, he had all those child allegations, and all those things flying around. It wasn't the right thing to
do.
Q. You didn't think the american market was the right place to start?
A. Yes. We just didn't know how well it would do in America.
Q. And ultimately how many shows did Mr. Jackson agree to?
A. 50.
Q. And it was going to be a residency in the UK; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you ever speak to Mr. Jackson about the difference between a residency and a tour?
A. Oh, I think he knew.
Q. Based on your experience with Mr. Jackson, was he someone who liked to tour?

A. No, not really. He didn't tour that often. I don't think he liked it that much.
Q. And why do you think that?
A. I don't know. I mean, I think he'd been doing it all his life, and there were a lot of things he would
rather be doing.
Q. And this tour was set for 2009. And when was the last time he had toured before that?
A. History was in '96, '97.
Q. So it had been 12 years?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what a meet-and-greet is?
A. Yes.
Q. What's a meet-and-greet?
A. It's when the artist meets fans or sponsors or whatever. Usually before the show.
Q. And why does one do a meet-and-greet?
A. Uhm, just to thank the sponsors or to or because it's contractual, the sponsors, part of their deal,
wanted a meet-and-greet. Some people actually charge for them.
Q. What do you mean, "some people charge for them"?
A. Well, like Justin Beiber, when he does meet-and-greets, you buy a ticket for that.
Q. Do you know if Mr. Jackson liked to do meets and greets?
A. He never did.
Q. What about general public appearances? Did Mr. Jackson like to do public appearances, in your
opinion?

A. No.
Q. At the time that you were doing the This Is It tour -- well, remind us, why was it called the This Is It
tour?
A. Michael came up with that phrase because, "This is it, this is the last tour I'm going to do."
Q. And did you have any reason to believe that Mr. Jackson would do more than the 50 shows that
were scheduled to be in the UK?
A. I mean, I hoped he would, and in my mind I was planning how to do it, if he did. But he only agreed
to 50.
Q. Did he ever tell you he was going to do more than that 50?
A. No.
Q. But if he had agreed to it, AEG Live would have been interested?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. And did you have an understanding as to whether the agreement contemplated his continuing?
A. I'm not sure what it said about continuing. I know there was a way to add shows, but beyond that,
as to a tour, I don't know.
Q. Do you remember being asked last week about a residency in Las Vegas by Mr. Panish?
A. Yes.
Q. So remind us, what is a residency show in Vegas?
A. Well, there's a -- it's where the artist stays in Vegas, lives in Vegas, and will play the same show in

the same facility four or five nights a week for periods of time. Chunks of time.
Q. And so the artist is actually there physically performing four to five times a week?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, there are other shows, such as with Cirque du Soleil, where they play just the artist's music,
but the artist is not there. Is that a residency?
A. No.
Q. In your opinion, do you believe Mr. Jackson would have ever agreed to a residency in Las Vegas?
Mr. Panish: Objection. No foundation, beyond the scope of this witness's knowledge.
Judge: Sustained, unless you spoke to him about it.
Q. Did you ever speak to Mr. Jackson about a residency?
A. No.
Q. How many tours did you work on with Mr. Jackson prior to the This Is It tour?
A. I worked on Dangerous, and I worked on History.
Q. Okay.
A. And then I think back in -- it was like the early '80s, I think, I worked on a Jacksons tour that he was
part of.
Q. In terms of the two solo tours that you worked on previously with Mr. Jackson, that would be
Dangerous and History, do you have an understanding as to how much money the tour made?
A. Dangerous lost money. There were a lot of cancellations and a lot of problems on that tour. It lost

money. And History I think was probably pretty close to break-even.

Q. Do you recall, as you sit here today, how many shows Mr. Jackson was at least scheduled to
perform on the Dangerous Tour?
A. Around 70.
Q. And as you sit here today, can you recall approximately how many shows Mr. Jackson was
scheduled to perform on the History Tour?
A. About 80.
Q. And besides those two tours, was there any other tour that you're aware of that Mr. Jackson did as
a solo artist other than the This Is It tour?
A. He did the Bad Tour. I wasn't involved in that.
Q. And the Bad Tour was prior to the Dangerous Tour?
A. Yes.
Q. Based on your experience with Mr. Jackson, was making money Mr. Jackson's primary concern in
putting a show together?
A. That wasn't his primary concern, no.
Q. What was his primary concern?
A. The art, the performance, the show itself.
Q. And in terms of that, what kind of shows did you expect the This Is It to be? Was it going to be a big

show? Small show? What was it going to be?

A. It was massive. It was a huge show. Beyond big.
Q. Were you excited for the show?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any reason to believe Mr. Jackson was excited for the show?
A. Oh, yeah. He was into it.
Q. What makes you say that, sir?
A. Just an impression, you know. He was there; he was focused; he was doing it.
Q. And how many nights a week would he be performing at most in the UK?
A. Well, he was going to be doing, like, eight to ten shows a month. So two, maybe, in a given week,
three shows.
Q. In all your time with Mr. Jackson, did you ever see Mr. Jackson use drugs?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see him take drugs?
A. No.
Q. Other than what you've already spoken about, about what you learned with the Dangerous Tour, do
you know if Mr. Jackson ever used drugs at any other time?
A. No.
Q. Other than the knowledge you had of Mr. Jackson's prescription drug use in 1993 and going into
rehab, did you have any knowledge that Mr. Jackson had a problem with painkillers at any other time?

A. No.
Q. When you first met Mr. Jackson again, after not having seen him for several years in late 2008, how
did he seem to you?
A. He was good.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Uhm, he was lively, he was engaged. Seemed happy.
Q. Now, is it fair to say that you saw him, then, with some frequency from the fall of 2008 until his
passing in June of 2009?
A. Yes.
Q. And you had testified earlier that in that time period, there was one time you thought he seemed not
quite himself? You said you thought he might be on some kind of medication. You recall that
testimony?
A. Yeah. There was only that one time, yes.
Q. You haven't really been asked about that in any length, so I want to ask you about it. You said there
was one time. Tell us about that time.
A. Well, we were at the Carolwood house waiting for Michael for a meeting, and he was late. And
when he did come in, it just seemed like his speech was a little slurred. He was just a little, just a little
wasn't quite the same.

Q. Did you have an understanding as to where he was coming from?

A. Yes. While we were waiting, I think someone talked about he was at Dr. Klein's.
Q. And at that time had -- did you know who Dr. Klein was?
A. No.
Q. Did you come to understand that Dr. Klein was Michael's dermatologist?
Mr. Panish: First of all, it's leading and suggestive. Number two, there's no foundation for this
witness.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Did you come to understand who Dr. Klein was?
Mr. Panish: No foundation. Calls for hearsay.
Mr. Putnam: I'm asking if he came to an understanding.
Mr. Panish: No. There's no foundation.
Judge: Can we go to sidebar for this?
Mr. Putnam: Sure.
(Sidebar)
(back to open court)
Judge: Okay. You may continue.
Mr. Putnam: I was just reminded, for the sake of the record, that I said the 25th was
Wednesday, but it was Thursday. Just to note that.
Q. So I was asking you about this meeting at Carolwood where Dr. Klein was mentioned. Had you

ever heard at that point of any other doctor other than Conrad Murray who was treating Mr. Jackson?
A. In the time of This Is It?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Had Mr. Jackson ever discussed any of his doctors with you other than Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. And had anyone else discussed any of Mr. Jackson's doctors with you other than Dr. Conrad
Murray?
A. No.
Q. Other than the conversations that Mr. Jackson had with you about Dr. Conrad Murray, did he ever
discuss his medical care with you at any other time?
A. No.
Q. And then other than those conversations about Dr. Conrad Murray, did anyone on Mr. Jackson's
staff ever discuss any of Mr. Jackson's medical history with you at any other time?
A. No.
Mr. Putnam: I have no further questions, your honor.
Judge: All right. Thank you. Redirect?
Mr. Panish: Yes.

Redirect examination by Brian Panish:

Q. This is only the second time in History that your company was going to promote and produce a
concert; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you said how much you cared about Michael Jackson; is that right, sir?
A. I believe so, yeah.
Q. And you were very concerned about him; is that right, sir?
A. Well, I certainly wanted him to do well, yes.
Q. Well, were you concerned about him as a person, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you concerned about his children and his family?
A. I was concerned about him.
Q. Were you concerned about his children and his family, sir?
A. I suppose.
Q. You're not really sure if you were concerned about his children and family? Didn't really matter to
you?
A. I was focused on Michael Jackson.
Q. So you really weren't concerned about his family or children, were you, sir?
A. No, I didn't say that. I -- okay. I I mean, yes, I was. I was concerned about everything that was
Michael Jackson. That was part of it.

Q. Do you have to think about whether you were concerned about his family or his children, sir?
A. I just did.
Q. So now after you thought about it and refreshed your recollection without meeting with your
attorneys, you remember that you were concerned about his family and his children; is that right?
Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Argumentative.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Now have you refreshed your recollection whether or not you were concerned about his family?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Well, you told us you were concerned about Michael Jackson; right?
A. I was.
Q. Yeah. Were you concerned -- you told us that he was a tremendous father. Didn't you tell us that
yesterday?
A. Yeah. I believe he was a good father.
Q. I believe you said he was a tremendous father, didn't you, sir?
A. I don't recall the specific wording.
Q. Did you know that he was a great son to his mother?
A. I believe he was.
Q. Okay. After Michael Jackson died, did you ever send a card to his mother or his children?
A. I don't think so, no.

Q. Did you ever call his mother and express your condolences for her loss?
A. No.
Q. Now, sir, since you -- I finished questioning you, you've had numerous meetings with your
attorneys; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you've changed many things in your testimony under oath here, haven't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I believe I've testified truthfully.
Q. Sir, have you changed your testimony from when I asked you questions, to when you met with your
lawyers, and they asked you questions? "Yes" or "No"?
A. I don't believe I've changed anything of substance.
Q. Okay. Well, let's take a look at that. First, sir, you told us, did you not, that you never told anyone to
tell Michael that he needed to be at rehearsals; correct?
A. I don't know. Did I?
Q. You don't remember?
A. I don't remember that testimony specifically.
Q. Okay. Let's take a look at it. Page 5863, lines 15 to 20. You know there's a transcript of your

testimony; right, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
Mr. Panish: see that, counsel? Okay. Let's put it up.
Q. This is your testimony, sir, when Mr. Putnam was questioning you yesterday (shows document):
Question: Did you ever call Mr. Jackson to tell him he needed to get to rehearsals?"
Answer: No.
Q Did you ever call and tell anyone that Mr. Jackson needed to get to rehearsals?"
Answer: No.
Does that refresh your recollection of what you said on that witness stand yesterday, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, sir, let's take a look at 638-108.
Mr. Putnam: I'm sorry. Say that again?
Mr. Panish: 638-108. I'm sure you're familiar with this. Okay. Let's look at the part in the middle.
Q. You remember this email; right, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. In your deposition under oath on December 20th, 2012, you had no recollection of ever
writing this email; correct?
A. Right.

Q. And when I asked you about this email, I asked you whether or not -- or strike that. Sir, after your
deposition, you told us that you met with your lawyers after you read it and that you remembered in
your head changes you wanted to make; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you read your deposition, all of the exhibits were attached to your deposition and
referred to in the deposition; right? This was exhibit 15 to your deposition; right?
A. Right.
Q. So you read all of the exhibits and your transcript within a month of giving that testimony; correct?
A. Right.
Q. And then, sir, you never changed this testimony that you didn't recall anything about this or what
you meant, did you, sir?
A. I didn't change it.
Q. But if we look at exhibit -- let's take a look at exhibit 13,396. Let's take a look at that, sir. This is
what your lawyer showed you when you started your testimony. 13,396. It's also referred to as
another number.
Mr. Putnam: I don't have it.
Q. You need a copy to see this, sir, or are you familiar with it?
A. Please.

Q. Okay. All right.

Mr. Panish: Can I share one with him?
Judge: You can get next to him.
Mr. Putnam: Also, if I may, it's possible, if he saw it before, it's up there.
Mr. Panish: Well, I think each day you took them, so I think this is just the last day's exhibits.
Q. Okay. So I'm not going to get in your space, but we can put that up (shows document). That is the
exhibit that you were shown by your lawyer, you remember that, whenever that day was, sir? Take
your time. You can look at all three pages.
A. (reading document) Yes.
Q. Okay. So let's look at the top. First of all -- excuse me. Let's look at this first, top of the page. This is
a letter written by o'melveny & myers. Are those your attorneys?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And they're an international law firm; is that right?
A. I assume so.
Q. Well, they have offices in Beijing, Brussels, Hong Kong, London, LA, New York
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Irrelevant.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Well, sir, you had these lawyers -- you expected your lawyers -- strike that. You knew that the
deposition that you gave in this case is the same as testifying under oath in a court of law, didn't you,
sir?

A. Yes.
Q. And you knew you were obligated to give your best testimony under oath, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew that the -- this was discovery, where you were supposed to tell what you knew about
what occurred, to the best of your ability; correct?
A. To the best of my recollection.
Q. Yeah. And you expected this international -- these lawyers to prepare you for your deposition, didn't
you, sir?
A. Uhm, I expected them to do what they thought was best.
Q. Okay. You spent two days with the lawyers before your deposition, didn't you, sir?
A. I spent time with them. I don't think it was two full days.
Q. Two separate days you spent preparing for your deposition with Mr. Putnam at his law office, didn't
you, sir?
A. Sounds right.
Q. And you expected your lawyers to prepare you to testify, to the best of your ability, truthfully under
oath in this case, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, you spent, you've told us, one to two hours since your deposition on that email that I just
showed you, didn't you, sir?
A. One to two hours of what, sir?
Q. Going over it with your lawyers. That one email.
Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Misstates the testimony.
Mr. Panish: I have the testimony, and I'll read it.
Judge: You talking about in addition to the depo?
Mr. Panish: Yes, I am. And I have the testimony, and I'll play that next.
Judge: It was just a little unclear, what the one to two hours were referring to.
Q. One to two hours on one email with your lawyers, didn't you, sir?
A. Could I see it?
Q. Sure. Let's go to that.
Mr. Panish: 5318, lines 13 to 21. Let's go back to that. Your testimony under oath from that
witness stand in this courtroom.
Mr. Putnam: what's the number again, sir?
Mr. Panish: 5318, 529, 5318, 13 to 21. Let's put that up.
Q. Okay, sir? Now, this is me questioning you. Question --
Mr. Putnam: Objection.
Mr. Panish: -- "Now, Mr. Gongaware" --
Mr. Putnam: Objection. It does misstate his prior testimony.
Judge: Okay. Take it off the screen for a minute. Leave it on mine, please.

Mr. Putnam: He said two hours with his lawyer.

Mr. Panish: I said one to two hours.
Mr. Putnam: With his lawyers.
Judge: Let me read it first. (reading testimony) So what is your objection?
Mr. Putnam: It wasn't with his lawyers.
Mr. Panish: That's before that, but we'll stick with this.
Judge: Okay.
Mr. Panish: Let's put it up.
Q. Mr. Gongaware, you spent one to two hours reviewing that one email, didn't you, sir? Isn't that what
your testimony under oath from that witness stand was when I questioned you?
A. Yes.
Q. And was that with your lawyers that you did that, sir?
A. At least some of it was, yes.
Q. Okay. So now does that refresh your recollection, what you testified under oath from that witness
stand?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's go back to the transcript changes that you made, sir. Okay. Now, did you read this letter
before you signed it, sir? (shows document)
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. What day does it say your deposition was given in this case, sir? It's on the first page, sir.
A. It says, "June 12th, 2012."

Q. Is that -- did you correct that, sir? Is that right?

A. I think it was in december.
Q. So you just missed that mistake? It was another mistake that you just missed; right?
A. I missed it.
Q. Okay. Now, sir, the first change was relating to Dr. Finkelstein. When you said whether Dr.
Finkelstein talked to you on the "Dangerous" tour about injecting Mr. Jackson with opiates, you
testified under oath he wouldn't talk about that stuff, correct, sir, at your deposition?
A. Right.
Q. And then, after meeting with your lawyers, you changed it to: "yes. He said he occasionally treated
Michael Jackson on the Dangerous Tour; correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates the question at the deposition, your honor.
Judge: Not -- misstates the testimony in the deposition?
Mr. Panish: He just answered the question, your honor. So is he saying now his witness is
testifying wrongly again?
Judge: Where he says he wouldn't talk about that stuff?
Mr. Putnam: That's correct. The question that he was asked that results in that was not correct.
Q. Sir, did Dr. Finkelstein -- were you asked whether you discussed treatment Dr. Finkelstein gave to
Mr. Jackson in your deposition?
A. Yes.

Q. And did you say he wouldn't talk about that stuff with you?
A. Yes.
Q. And then after meeting with your lawyers, reading your deposition, you changed that to say: Yes, he
occasionally treated Michael Jackson on the Dangerous Tour. Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So that's a complete change of that testimony, isn't it, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. The next one, 167. Again, you said -- the answer in the deposition was: "I don't know. I don't
recall this email, too." And this is the questions about the net and gross that you wrote that I went over
the other day. Remember that, sir? Whether you were trying to fool Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were asked at your deposition whether you were trying to fool Mr. Jackson, and you said,
"I don't know. I don't recall writing this email."
Remember that testimony, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you changed it to: "I never tried to fool Michael. However, I don't recall writing this email,"
after the same thing, meeting with your lawyers and going over this; right?
A. Yes.

Q. And then the next part you changed is -- you testified: "I don't know. I don't recall this email" to "I
don't recall writing this email, but I did review the text of this email with my attorneys for my summary
judgment declaration."
You changed that; right, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then on the last one, you said you talked to -- what was the conversation about, and you
said, "It was about Dr. Murray and engaging him"; right, sir? That's what you testified to?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you changed it to: "Dr. Murray and engaging for Michael Jackson"; right?
A. Yes.
Mr. Panish: let's go to the next page.
Q. This was all signed off by your lawyer, Mr. Putnam; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. See the next page. From this law firm, O'Melveny & Myers, all these lawyers who represent
you; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then let's go to the last page, sir. Because, sir, what you did is, you read the whole deposition,
you made those minimal changes, and then you said under oath again that: "I declare under penalty of
perjury that I have read the foregoing transcript, I made corrections, and that my testimony contained
herein as corrected is true and correct"; right?

A. Yes.
Q. So it means the rest of the deposition that you didn't change was true and correct, wasn't it, sir?
A. I believe so.
Q. Right. But you've changed, since that time, much of that testimony, haven't you, sir?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Okay. Well, let's look. Let's go back to where we were. We had to back up. Let's go back. Now, I
showed -- now, when I asked you, sir, about that email
Mr. Panish: Let's put that email up.
Q. And I asked you, sir, whether or not you had been mistaken about AEG paying Dr. Murray. You
remember that -- the questions I asked you, sir?
A. I don't remember that one.
Q. Okay. Do you remember testifying that: no, that wasn't a mistake?
A. I don't remember that specifically.
Q. Well, let's see if we can refresh your recollection of your testimony under oath. 5327/23 to 5328/18
(shows document). Okay. You see that testimony, sir?
A. (reading document)
Mr. Panish: Put up more so it's in context. The whole page.
Q. Starts off, it says AEG's paying Dr. Murray. Well, if Michael Jackson would have signed the
contract, and if Michael Jackson

Mr. Putnam: That's after.

Mr. Panish: All right.
Q. So this puts it in context, what we're talking about. You with me now, sir?
A. So far.
Q. Well, I asked you whether that was a mistake, and you said it wasn't a mistake, didn't you? Just in
the normal course of business?
Mr. Putnam: Does that answer continue? Can't find it.
Mr. Panish: That's the end of the page, line 28. Goes to the next page, line 1.
Q. Says: "Just the normal course of business, going through a lot of different things, and it wasn't a
mistake"; right? Isn't that what you said, sir?
A. Yeah. I think I talked about that we were I was just running in shorthand at that point, and that
things were going very quickly, and if I would have known that it was going to be torn apart word for
word by attorneys four years later, I would have chosen my words carefully.
Q. So you might have been a little more truthful, then, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Argumentative.
Judge: Overruled.
A. no, I don't think it's a question of truth.
Q. Sir, I asked you if it was a mistake, just another mistake, and you said, it's not necessarily that, a

mistake; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And yesterday from that same witness stand, you changed that testimony again, didn't you, sir?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Okay. In your deposition, you didn't remember; right?
A. Right.
Q. And then you signed under penalty of perjury in january that the deposition was true for the second
time; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then when I questioned you on May 29th, you said it wasn't a mistake; right?
A. I don't necessarily think it was a mistake, is what I said.
Q. Okay. Did you say it was a mistake, sir?
A. No.
Q. Did I ask you if it was a mistake?
Q Is this just a mistake, another mistake you made, sir.
A You know, I don't necessarily think it was a mistake.
Isn't that a negative response to it being a mistake, sir?
A. (reading document) I think I explained it there.
Q. Sir, you didn't say it was a mistake or admit it was a mistake when I questioned you, did you, sir?
A. No. I think I explained it here. "in the normal course of business."
Q. Did you say it was a mistake? "Yes" or "No"?
A. I said: "I didn't necessarily think it was a mistake. It was just in the normal course of business going

through a lot of different things."

Q. Let's see what you said yesterday after you met with your lawyers.
A. All right.
Q. Let's go back now, 5327 -- excuse me. 5903/17 to 22. Yesterday from that witness stand. Did you
say yesterday it was a mistake, sir?
A. Uhm, I said that I was mistaken because we weren't going to pay his salary. We were going to
advance the money. So I think I'm saying the same thing both times.
Q. Well, when you say -- so, in other words, when you don't necessarily think it's a mistake is the
same thing as when you're mistaken? Is that what you're telling us?
A. I think my testimony -- I think I was talking about the same thing both times.
Q. Okay. You do remember writing it, though, don't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony.
Judge: Overruled.
A. Remember writing what?
Q. The email.
A. No, I don't remember writing it.
Q. You don't?
A. No.
Q. Sir, does AEG Pay people for work they don't do?

Mr. Panish: You can take that down.

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation -- AEG
Mr. Panish: AEG, AEG Live, AEG Live production, Inc., Paul Gongaware.
Judge: Overruled.
Q. Do you pay people for work they don't do?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know that?
A. Well, there may be instances where that happens. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Well, sir, you told us yesterday that you hired Lou Ferrigno. You remember that, sir?
A. I made a deal with him, yes.
Q. You made a deal. You said, "Lou, I want to hire you to train Michael Jackson. This is what we're
going to pay you"; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. You hired Lou Ferrigno to train Michael Jackson because that was part of the show; right?
A. I made a deal with him. It was up to Michael to decide when to use him.
Q. Okay. Was Lou Ferrigno an employee of AEG Live?
A. Oh, no.
Q. Was he an independent contractor?
A. I guess he would have been.
Q. Okay. And did Michael -- he was providing personal services to Michael Jackson, wasn't he, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.

A. He would have been doing whatever Michael wanted him to do in terms of training him.
Q. Sir, a trainer provides personal services to an individual, don't they, sir?
A. I guess you could say that, sure.
Q. Yeah. Well, sir, Dr. Murray was to provide personal services to Michael Jackson, wasn't he, sir?
A. Yeah. It was his doctor.
Q. Right. And Dr. Murray, according to you and everyone from AEG, was also an independent
contractor; correct?
A. No, he wasn't. He was never hired.
Q. Okay. Well, we'll get to that. First of all, sir, Lou Ferrigno never had a written contract signed
by Michael Jackson or anyone, did he, sir, from AEG Or AEG Live?
A. I don't know.
Q. Lou Ferrigno submitted his bills to you to get paid for training, didn't he, sir?
A. I don't know if they came to me or where they went.
Q. They were paid by AEG Live, weren't they, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. So you didn't -- you stiffed Lou Ferrigno? You didn't pay "The Incredible Hulk"?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I'm not even sure if Michael used Lou Ferrigno or not. I set it up so that he could use him, and it
was between Michael and Mr. Ferrigno as to when they worked.

Q. Didn't you testify yesterday, when your lawyer questioned you, that you weren't worried about Mr.
Jackson's health because he was working out with Lou Ferrigno, "The Incredible Hulk"?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
Q. Didn't you say that from that witness stand yesterday, sir?
A. I don't think I said it quite like that, sir.
Q. Well, let's find it.
Mr. Panish: Do we have that, Lou Ferrigno? I believe that's page 5970, maybe. Let's take a look.
Q. Let's see what you said, sir.
Mr. Panish: Who has that transcript, Lou Ferrigno?
Q. By the way, do you know his wife, Carla?
A. No. I don't know her.
Q. Did you know Lou's wife carla was submitting the bills to AEG To get paid?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Well, let's take a look at what you said, sir. Okay. Let's start at page 5909, line 6.
Mr. Putnam. Let's go first through line 2, the next page. Actually, through lines -- line -- okay. Let's start
on 59, 5910, line 2, and let's go through line -- well, no. Let's go to the other part because it gives
more context. Let's start at 5909, line 6, through 5910/19.
Let's see what you said about Lou Ferrigno.

Mr. Panish: Okay. Yeah, let's just start on line 23. Get rid of that objection, one of my
objections. I'm sorry.
Q. Okay. Question by Mr. Putnam: I asked you a question of whether or not you had an
understanding as to whether Mr. Jackson was seeing a trainer. Did you have an understanding
that Mr. Jackson was seeing a trainer?
Answer: yes.
Q. And did you have an understanding of who that trainer was?
Answer: yes.
Q. And who was that trainer?
Answer: Lou Ferrigno.
Q. Do you have an understanding as to how Mr. Ferrigno was engaged?
A. Yes. I -- I made a deal with him.
Q. And what was that deal?
A. He was to be paid, I forget the number, a certain amount per session.
Did I read that right, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. So when your lawyer was questioning you yesterday, you said that you weren't worried about Mr.
Jackson's health -- and this was on June 15th -- because you believed he was working out with a
trainer, Lou Ferrigno, "The Incredible Hulk"; correct?
A. I did say he was supposed to work out with Lou Ferrigno, yes. He was going to work out with Lou
Ferrigno.
Q. Were you asked the question, "do you have an understanding as to whether Mr. Jackson was

supposed to work out with a trainer"?

Mr. Panish: Let's go up.
A. It was set up so he could, yes.
Q. No. But that's not what you were asked. You said he was working out with a trainer, didn't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Misstates the testimony.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: Well, let's go up further. Let's go to the next page.
Q. By the way, where is Lou Ferrigno's signed independent-contractor agreement?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I don't know.
Q. I thought nobody got paid if they didn't have a signed contract.
A. I don't know where his independent contractor agreement is.
Q. But you certainly didn't have him sign one, did you, sir?
A. No.
Q. And you made the deal, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Nobody else was involved in making the deal, were they, sir?
A. I made the deal.
Mr. Panish: Well, it's on the other page. Okay. Let's go to page -- the page before that. Let's go

to lines 2 through line 16. Page before that, 5909.

Q. Let's get exactly what you said when your lawyer was questioning you yesterday; okay? Has your
memory changed from yesterday, sir?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Okay. This was your lawyer questioning you yesterday afternoon about 3:30:
Q. Did everything did anything give you pause and concern at this point when you
heard this from Mr. Ortega?
Answer: no.
That's referring to Mr. Ortega, talking about problems with Mr. Jackson. You remember all those
emails? Do you want me to go back into those, sir?
A. Yes, so I can remember.
Q. You want me to go into -- you don't remember those emails?
A. I'm just trying to see what was before this. Are you referring to --
Q. Sure. Let's go back -- you don't remember, just scroll back.
A. I do remember those emails, but I just want to see where we're at here.
Q. Well, it's June 15th, I believe, but let's go back and look.
Mr. Panish: Go back to the next page. The page before. 5908.
Q. This is the emails about the physical therapy and the nourishment and the guidance and all of that.
You remember that, sir? These are all the questions by your lawyer.
Q. Did you disagree with Mr. Ortega that he should be on top of his game for the show?
A. No. I think that was everyone's goal.

Q. Did you have any problem with the idea that Mr. Ortega thought Mr. Jackson should
have nourishment and guidance, physical therapy, massages?
You remember all those questions yesterday, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was the 14th and the 15th of June. You remember that?
A. Okay. Yes.
Q. All right. So then after the next page, after all those questions about the emails, then your lawyer
asked you this.
Mr. Panish: let's go to 5910. Start 5909. Let's start with -- let's blow that up.
Q. Did anything give you pause and concern at this point when you heard this from Mr.
Ortega?
Answer: "no.
Q. Now, at this point in time, do you have any awareness as to
Whether or not Mr. Jackson was seeing a trainer?
Answer: he was -- he was seeing Lou Ferrigno.
Were you asked whether he was supposed to see a trainer, sir?
A. No.
Q. Did you say -- did you agree that he was seeing a trainer under oath yesterday?
A. I believe he was.
Q. Okay. But you just told me you didn't know that. He was supposed to see a trainer. Which one is it?
A. I didn't know specifically when Mr. Jackson saw trainers, but I believed he was seeing him.

Q. Well, you just told us he was supposed to. You just said under oath -- you didn't say you believed
that he was seeing a trainer, did you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection.
Q. You said, "He was -- he was seeing Lou Ferrigno."
Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor.
Q. Right, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Misstates prior testimony.
Judge: Overruled.
Q. Did you say under oath he was seeing Lou Ferrigno?
A. I thought he was.
Q. Was he training to be in "The Incredible Hulk" sequel?
A. No.
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Argumentative.
A. I don't think so.
Q. He was seeing Lou Ferrigno, according to you, to work out, and Lou was his trainer; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And because of that, yesterday you said that you weren't concerned about his health, because he

was working out with Lou Ferrigno, "The Incredible Hulk"; right?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony.
Judge: Well, you can bring out prior testimony, if you think it's inconsistent.
Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.
Gongaware: I don't see the part where it says I wasn't concerned about his health because he
was working out with Lou Ferrigno.
Q. Did anything give you pause and concern at this point when you heard this from Mr. Ortega, the
nourishment, the physical therapy, the massage, that he was hurting, all of that? Counsel kept asking
you numerous times, were you concerned about his health, and you told us you were never, ever, ever
concerned about Michael Jackson's health; isn't that true, sir?
A. I wasn't concerned, no.
Q. That's true; right? You were never, ever concerned at any time whatsoever; right?
A. Well, I mean, I think there was, when he was sick, I didn't know what was happening on the 19th.
But other than that, I thought he was great.
Q. You don't even know if he was sick. You don't know what was wrong with him on the 19th, do you,
sir?
A. For sure, no.
Q. Do you know that Mr. Dileo called Dr. Murray to get blood tests from him?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor.
Mr. Panish: The question was, "do you know."

Judge: Overruled.
Q. Whether Mr. Dileo called Dr. Murray at that time to have Mr. Jackson's blood tested?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. So now, sir, Lou Ferrigno, we know you don't know where his written contract is, and you didn't do
one with him; right?
A. Right.
Q. You expect that Lou Ferrigno would have gotten paid? You wouldn't stiff "The Incredible Hulk";
right?
A. No, sir.
Q. So as far as you know, Lou Ferrigno got paid without a signed independent contractor agreement;
isn't that right, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, are you disputing that he got paid?
A. I don't know if he got paid or not. I don't know if he had an independent contractor agreement or
not. I don't know those things.
Q. Okay. Well, sir, you know that Dr. Murray was supposed to get paid for doing work for AEG In may
and June, don't you, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor.

Judge: Overruled.
A. No. He was not supposed to get paid by AEG For those things. He would -- if he would have -- if
Michael would have signed the deal, he would have been paid in London for those things.
Q. Well, sir, you also told us that you've never, ever been sent or seen Dr. Conrad Murray's contract
with AEG; right?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor. He didn't say that. That misstates his
prior testimony.
Mr. Panish: That's exactly what he said.
Judge: Overruled.
Mr. Putnam: He said he had never seen it. He didn't say he was never sent it.
Mr. Panish: Is he going to testify and coach the witness?
Judge: Overruled.
A. I never read it.
Q. Well, were you sent his contract, sir?
A. I don't think so, no.
Q. Well, certainly, somebody as important as a doctor, if you had the contract sent to you, you would
have at least looked at it, wouldn't you?
A. No. I didn't read contracts, generally. I didn't have time.
Q. So you didn't have time to read contracts, you didn't have time to read budgets; right?
A. I didn't have time to go through budgets thoroughly, no.

Q. Well, let's see if we can refresh your recollection, sir. Here's exhibit 266 that your lawyer didn't show
you (shows document).
A. (reviewing document.)
Q. Is that an email addressed -- That you're receiving, Mr. Gongaware? Is that you, "Paul
Gongaware"?
A. I was copied on it, yeah.
Q. Yeah. You received it. Are you disputing that you received that
email, sir?
A. No.
Q. What was attached to that email, sir?
Mr. Panish: Let's just show the front page.
Q. Okay. This is after your email where you say that AEG's paying Dr. Murray, not MJ; right, sir? 6-16-
2009.
A. It was after that email.
Q. Okay. So after you told -- who did you tell to tell Dr. Murray what's expected of him and that it's us --
it's AEG That's paying him, not MJ? Who did you tell that to?

A. I didn't tell anyone to tell Dr. Murray what was expected of him.
Q. Did you send that email to anyone, sir?
A. Which email?
Mr. Panish: Let's go back to that email. The one that he sent.
Judge: 638.
Mr. Panish: Thank you, your honor.
Q. 638, exhibit 15 to your deposition. Okay.
"We want to remind him that it's AEG, not MJ who is paying his salary. We want him," Dr. Murray, "to
understand what's expected of him."
Who did you send that email to, sir?
A. That was Frank and Kenny, I believe.
Q. Sent that to Mr. Phillips? I think you have it in front of you there.
A. It's blocked. I can't see it.
Q. (shows document) sent that to Mr. Ortega, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And was -- Mr. Ortega was working for AEG Live as the director of the show, wasn't he, sir?
A. He was the show director, yes.
Q. Working for AEG Live?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told him to remind the doctor of these facts; right, sir?
A. No.
Q. "We" is AEG, isn't it, sir?
A. Might have been me and Frank.
Q. You're AEG, aren't you, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. You speak for AEG Live, don't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. You're authorized to give direction for AEG Live, aren't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So this is on the 14th, and let's go two days later, sir, to the 16th.
Mr. Panish: Back to the exhibit we just had up, 266-1 through 9; okay?
Q. Now, do you deny that you received this email, sir? (shows document)
A. No. I don't deny it.
Q. Okay. And this email -- what is attached to this email two days later? If you want some help, it's on
the subject line.
A. Appears to be a draft of an independent contractor agreement with Dr. Murray.
Q. So you received that independent agreement with Dr. Murray, didn't you, sir, on June 16th?
A. I received it.
Q. After you sent the email on the 14th; right?
A. Would have been after that, yes.
Q. Okay. And let's go back, sir. Do you have any document -- were you ever sent -- strike that. You told
us everything you recalled about your conversation with Dr. Murray when your lawyer questioned you;
right?
A. Yes.

Q. And do you have -- because we know you said you wrote, "150 done per MJ"; right? We know that
was done; right?
A. Yes.
Q. But you never told Dr. Murray that AEG Wasn't paying him, did you, sir?
A. I didn't say that to him, no.
Q. No. Do you have any document where Dr. Murray was ever told that it wasn't AEG Paying him?
A. I don't know.
Q. You can't name any, can you, as you sit here today?
A. No. I don't know of any, no.
Q. So as far as you know, Dr. Murray, the only information he had was that it was AEG Who was
paying him; correct, sir?
A. I don't know what he assumed.
Q. Okay. You have no evidence, no conversations you had, no written documents, nothing that Dr.
Murray knew anyone but AEG Was paying him; correct?
A. I never discussed it with him, but I don't know what other -- what else is out there.
Q. Okay. You never discussed it with him, and you've never seen any documents that say it's AEG
Live -- it's MJ, not AEG That's paying the doctor; right?
A. That's what the email said, but I think we talked about that.
Q. No, no, no, sir. The email didn't say that. The email didn't say, "it's MJ, not AEG Paying Dr. Murray."

there's no emails that say that, are there, sir

Mr. Putnam: Objection.
Mr. Panish: Can I please finish?
Mr. Putnam: Yes, you may.
Q. -- to Dr. Murray? There's no emails in that regard, are there, sir?
Mr. Putnam: that's two different questions, your honor. He answered the proper question
before.
Judge: Okay.
Mr. Panish: Let's start over.
Q. Do you have anything in writing where it says to Dr. Murray that it's MJ paying him, not AEG?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. So here there are attached to this numerous other emails back and forth, if we go back to the
next page, that you were sent regarding Conrad Murray; right? Let's go back to the ones before the --
okay. There's the contract. What was the date that the contract was supposed to start, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. Why don't you look at it. First time you've ever seen it in your life is this morning, right now?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Well, why don't you take a second and look and see, what is the date that the contract is
supposed to start, sir, so you'll know that -- at least I'll know I've asked you that.

A. The dates aren't filled in.

Q. Oh, okay. Let's see what the dates are.
Mr. Panish: Keep going down. May 1st.
Q. Does it say may 1st, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Now let's go to the next email before that.
A. But this is a draft. We don't know how close this was to being signable or ready to sign.
Q. You know Dr. Murray signed it and sent it back, one of the agreements, don't you, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. You never heard that before today; that Dr. Murray signed the agreement and faxed it back to AEG
before Michael Jackson died?
A. I believe he signed one of them, but I don't know if it was this one or --
Q. I didn't ask you that, sir.
Mr. Putnam: Can the witness be allowed to answer?
Judge: Let him finish his answer. Did you finish your answer?
Gongaware: Yes.
Judge: Okay.
Q. Okay. So you told us AEG Doesn't pay anyone for work they didn't do; right?
A. Not normally.
Q. Okay. Well, let's see what Mr. Woolley sent to you. Let's go to the first email. Okay. Why don't you

read what was sent to you, sir?

Judge: Well, he was copied on this; right?
Mr. Panish: Well, he said he received it. He's not disputing it.
Judge: Well, he said it was sent to him.
Mr. Panish: Fair enough.
Q. Copied to you. What does it say? Read it, sir.
A. "I'm sorry for the long delay in getting this to you but hope that with your input and comments we
can dispose of the agreement quickly and arrange for payment of the may and June fee installments."
Q. So that means that Dr. Murray would have been working in may, doesn't it, sir? Because you don't
pay people for work they didn't do for you, do you?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
A. Well, we would never have been paying him. We would have been advancing him the money based
on Michael's instruction.
Q. Does it say that, sir, in the letter? That we're advancing -- that "if you do this, we'll advance money
to you for may and June fee installments based on Michael's instructions"? Does it say that anywhere
in that letter, sir? That email?
A. Not here.
Q. It says, "arrange for payments in may." that means he had to be working in may, because you don't

pay people who don't work for you, do you, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. He was working for Michael Jackson. He wasn't working for us.
Q. Like Lou Ferrigno; right?
A. He was under Michael's direction, yes.
Q. And you wanted Dr. -- well, the contract called for AEG To tell Dr. Murray what to do, didn't it, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: I'm sorry. Repeat that?
Mr. Panish: I'll rephrase it.
Q. You, sir, since it's Michael's doctor, it was AEG That was entering into the contract with the doctor,
wasn't it, sir?
A. I think Michael was a party to the contract.
Q. Oh, he was?
A. I think so.
Q. Well, you told us you've never seen it. How would you know that?
A. I know that he never signed it, and it was part of the deal.
Q. Well, let's look at who the parties were, if you want to get into that, sir.
Mr. Panish: Can we put up who the parties to the contract were?
Q. And why don't you read for us, Mr. Gongaware, who the parties to the contract were?

Mr. Putnam: We just changed exhibits, your honor.

Mr. Panish: It's the one attached to exhibit --
Judge: I think this is -- attached to that email.
Ms. Stebbins: It's not, your honor. I think it's a different version of the contract.
Mr. Panish: Go to the first page.
Judge: Okay. Let's make sure it's right.
Mr. Panish: 266 --
Judge: Right.
Mr. Panish: -- page 4.
Mr. Putnam: This is the right one, your honor.
Judge: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Let's go back.
Q. So it's the same. "Recitals."
A. Am I looking -- is this one the same as that one? (shows document)
Q. Yes. It's the same one, sir. See paragraph b? It's the first sentence. The first sentence, what does it
say, sir?
A. B?
Q. No. The top of the page. "this independent contractor agreement." could you read that for us?
A. "This independent contractor agreement -- this agreement -- is made effective as of June" -- blank
-- "2009 by and among AEG Live Production, llc -- producer -- and Dr. Conrad Murray -- Dr. Murray."
Q. Period?

A. Period.
Q. Have you ever seen an agreement that has any other parties -- strike that. Have you ever seen an
agreement that lists Michael Jackson as a party to the contract?
A. I've never seen any other agreements or drafts of this.
Q. Okay. Fair enough. Now, sir -- okay. So if this is Michael Jackson's doctor -- personal doctor, you've
told us that numerous times -- why is AEG Entering into a contract with him if you don't want to have
control over him?
A. Well, on Michael's instructions, we would have paid him.
Q. That wasn't my question, sir. Why is it --
A. Well, that's why we would have been entering into an agreement.
Q. Did Michael Jackson tell you to enter into a written agreement with Dr. Murray?
A. Did he instruct me to enter into a written agreement?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Because you told us everything that was said in the conversations, and it was never said that you
were to get a written agreement with Dr. Murray, was it, sir?
A. Not with Michael, no.
Q. No. It was AEG Who decided to have a written agreement with Dr. Murray, isn't it, sir?
A. I suspect so, yeah.
Q. Now, sir, you would expect Dr. Murray, just like Lou Ferrigno, to be paid if he worked for AEG And

did services on behalf of AEG, wouldn't you, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. He wasn't working for AEG.
Q. Well, sir, isn't it true that you -- you told us that you got a call from Mr. Michael Amir, and he told
you, "You're gonna -- we're gonna need to get a deal done with Michael with Dr. Murray"; correct?
A. Something like that. I recall that.
Q. Well, let's see what you said yesterday. 5822, 20 to 27. Let's see what you told your lawyer
yesterday.
Mr. Panish: Are we going straight through, your honor?
(10 minute break)
Mr. Panish: Good morning, Mr. Gongaware.
Gongaware: Hi.
Q. Have a chance to meet with your attorneys at the break?
A. We said hello.
Q. Well, did you read the testimony I just showed you before the break?
A. No.

Q. Okay. I'll show it to you, then. That's 5822, lines 20 to 27. This is your testimony under oath
yesterday afternoon (shows document).
Mr. Panish: If we can show that, please.
Q. And this is about the second call from -- about Dr. Murray; okay? Remember this call?
Q. How did this call come about?
A. I was at Center Staging. Got a call from Michael Amir Williams. He and Michael
Jackson were on their way over to rehearsals. I think Frank was even with them.
Do you remember this testimony, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it says: "But they were in the car riding over, and he said" -- that's brother
Michael Amir Williams; is that right? "He"?
A. Yeah, that would have been.
Q. He said: "You're going -- you know, we're going to need to get a deal done with Dr. Murray."
I did read that right, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. So first you said that Brother Michael told you that you, Paul Gongaware, is going to need to get a
deal done with Dr. Murray; right? That's what you said; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you changed it to "we're going to need to get a deal done"; right?

A. That's what I said.

Q. Either way, whether it's you or we're, you're involved in getting the deal done with Dr. Murray; right?
A. Yes.
Q. It was you that was tasked with the responsibility to make a deal with Dr. Murray; correct?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I was tasked with negotiating the -- what he would be paid.
Q. Sir, you were the one that needed to get a deal done with Dr. Murray; isn't that true?
A. In this call I was tasked with getting you know, determining what he would be paid.
Q. Okay. Well, let's see what you said on the next page, sir. By the way, you never said that you were
tasked with determining what he was going to get paid in this testimony, did you, sir?
A. No. That's what I said.
Q. Did you say what he's going to get paid anywhere? Did I miss that? Is that anywhere in there, sir?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Well, let's see what you said, page 5823, lines 10 to 16. Let's see what you testified to under
oath then.
Q. "the" -- this is your lawyer. "the -- so you had this -- tell me more about this call. So
you hear that from Michael Amir Williams. What exactly did he say to you? Michael Amir
Williams, that is."
Answer: "I don't know exactly, but he said, 'we're going to need to hire Dr. Murray.'"
Did I read that right, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. That was your testimony under oath yesterday, wasn't it, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And you followed those instructions, didn't you, sir?
A. I did what Michael asked, yes. And the "we" here, I think, is referring to Michael Jackson.
Q. I didn't -- oh, Michael Jackson. Did he have a mouse in his pocket?
A. Yeah. He had Michael Amir with him.
Q. "We're going to need to hire Dr. Murray." before you said that you were the one tasked with that
responsibility; correct?
A. Was tasked with making the deal. Determining what the compensation would be.
Q. And you -- if it was already Michael Jackson's personal doctor, why would he need to hire him?
A. We were talking about London.
Q. Okay.
A. Taking him to London.
Q. Did he need to hire his personal doctor? Was there something that -- you kept telling us, "his
personal doctor." He didn't need to hire his personal doctor, did he?
A. Uhm, I think he was talking about making arrangements to pay him.
Q. Did he not pay him before when he was his personal doctor?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Okay. Sir, you did exactly what brother Michael asked you to do, and you hired and got a deal done
with Dr. Murray, didn't you, sir?

A. No.
Q. Let's see what you wrote back after that email, exhibit 175. You wanted to immediately report back
to Mr. Michael Amir Williams what you were doing; right?
A. To Michael Jackson, yes, through Michael Amir Williams, yes.
Q. Did you ever send an email to Michael Jackson at any time, sir?
A. No. I didn't have an email address for him.
Q. So the answer is "no"?
A. The answer is "no."
Q. Okay. And you sent an email back regarding -- "Subject: Dr. Murray" -- after you were told about
hiring Dr. Murray; correct?
A. I was told to negotiate his compensation.
Q. Okay. Does it say that anywhere in your testimony that you were told to negotiate his
compensation, sir?
A. That's -- I recall that's -- yeah. I mean, I don't know what it says, but I know that's what the process
was here.
Q. Well, let's go back and see what you said yesterday, sir. I wasn't questioning you yesterday, was I,
sir?
A. No, I don't think so.
Q. Okay. Your lawyer was going through the questions with you; right?
A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever tell your lawyer in this testimony that your job was just to do the compensation for Dr.
Murray when you testified?
A. That's the part I did.
Q. Did you ever -- well, why don't you read what you said, sir?
A. I don't know exactly, but he said, "We're going to need to hire Dr. Murray."
Q. Did you say that you, Paul, only need to do the negotiations for the compensation? Did you ever
testify to that when your lawyer questioned you in this courtroom, sir?
A. I don't recall. But that's what was happening.
Q. Well, let's see what the email says. Let's go back to 175.
You wrote -- you wanted to get right back and follow up with brother Michael. You told us that
yesterday when your lawyer was questioning you?
A. Right.
Q. And what did you tell Michael? "done at 150 per month per MJ"; right?
A. Yes. I said that -- "per MJ" is not yellowed out here, but yes.
Mr. Panish: Yellow it out for him.
Q. You're not into creative, are you? Your lawyer told us you're not a creative guy. Are you a creative
guy now?
A. I don't think I am, no.

Q. You're a gag guy; right?

A. I don't know what that means either, sir.
Q. You told us for three days about gags. Aren't you the guy that deals with gags? You're a gag guy?
A. Part of it.
Q. Part of your job is being a gag guy; right?
A. Never heard it put that way, but --
Q. Okay. Well, that's not my term. That's your term; right?
A. A gag guy is not my term either, but --
Q. Would you admit, part of your job was to be a gag guy?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I -- that's part of my job, is to deal with the special effects.
Q. And, sir, are gags -- when I hear the word "gag," that means you're trying to fool someone. Does
that mean the same thing to you?
A. No. I think it's different. It's a show business term. A. Gag is a special effect or a special thing within
the show.
Q. Have you ever heard "gag" meaning like a joke or fool someone? "pull a gag on someone." ever
heard that?
A. I've heard that before, but that's not what I referred to when I talked about it.
Q. And the emails that said you were just joking, were those gags?
A. No. They were jokes.

Q. All right. And this doctor was going to get his whole practice wound down in 10 days, right, and then
he was going to get working full time; right?
A. If he would have been hired, it would have taken him 10 days to wind it down.
Q. Does it say, "if the doctor gets hired, it will take him 10 days to wind down his practice"?
A. No, it doesn't say that.
Q. Okay. And when brother Michael told you to make a deal with Dr. Murray and hire Dr. Murray, this is
what you sent in response to brother Michael, isn't it, sir?
A. I did send this back to him.
Q. You never called him, did you, sir?
A. I think I did it by email.
Q. This is the only communication in response to brother Michael's talk to you about retaining or hiring
Dr. Murray; isn't that true, sir?
A. Yes, that I can recall.
Q. Now, sir, you told us yesterday or the day before, I can't remember, that you were on the History
Tour; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Dangerous Tour; right?
A. Yes.

Q. And you also told us that you never worried about Michael Jackson, because when the lights went
on, he was always there to perform; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Always; right? That's what you told us. You didn't say sometimes, most of the time. You said he was
always there, didn't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
A. Uhm, I'd like to see specifically what you're referring to. But, yeah.
Q. Okay. Sir, which was first, Dangerous or History?
A. Dangerous.
Q. Okay. And on the Dangerous Tour, was Michael always there when the lights went on?
A. He did cancel several shows on that tour.
Q. So the answer is, he was not always there, like you testified to, was he, sir?
A. Well, if he was there, he performed.
Q. Sir, he was in bangkok and didn't perform, didn't he, sir? Isn't that true?
A. Yes.
Q. He was in south america and didn't perform; isn't that true, sir?
A. That's true.
Q. He was in mexico and didn't perform; wasn't that true, sir?
A. He did all the shows in mexico.
Q. He did? Never canceled any shows in mexico?
A. Moved a couple.

Q. And in fact, sir, Dr. Finkelstein, your very good friend of over 35 years, was on the tour, wasn't he,
sir?
A. He was on the third leg of Dangerous.
Q. And Dr. Finkelstein -- It's Finkelstein; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Finkelstein -- when's the last time you talked to him, sir?
A. Couple months ago.
Q. And Dr. Finkelstein, sir, you know that he gave testimony under oath in this case?
A. I believe he was deposed.
Q. Well, your lawyer asked you questions about things that Dr. Finkelstein -- if he said this, would that
be true. You remember those questions, sir?
A. Generally, yeah.
Q. And Dr. Finkelstein, your understanding, is an addiction medicine specialist since 1995; isn't that
true, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I don't know when specifically, but he practices now addiction, yes. Or part of it.
Q. Well, in the early '90s, '95, he was working at a detox center that provided medical detox, wasn't
he, sir, at the time that you brought him on the tour?

A. I don't know.
Q. You didn't know what your good friend of 35 years was doing?
A. In the early '90s, I don't know -- I didn't know where he was working. He was -- he had a practice. I
know that.
Q. Well, did Dr. Finkelstein tell you, sir were you aware that he was giving shots of demerol to
Michael Jackson on the tour?
A. No.
Q. Do you deny that Dr. Finkelstein told you that?
A. There were two occasions where he told me he was treating him, but he never mentioned demerol
or never mentioned shots or anything like that.
Q. But you testified in your deposition, sir, that he would never talk about that with you, didn't you, sir,
when you gave your testimony under oath on december 20th? Didn't you say, sir, that Dr. Finkelstein
would never discuss patient treatment with you? Didn't you?
A. Yeah. He didn't.
Q. Is that a "yes"? Did you testify to that?
A. Yeah, I did. That's one I think I changed.
Q. Well, sir, Dr. Finkelstein told you that Dr. Forecast, who was also on that tour, broke into his bag to
get painkillers to give Michael Jackson, didn't he, sir?
A. No. I don't remember that.

Q. Are you saying he didn't tell you, or you don't remember if he told you?
A. I don't believe he told me that.
Q. Okay. And Dr. Finkelstein told you that he thought Michael Jackson had a problem with painkillers
during the Dangerous Tour, didn't he, sir?
A. No. I don't think so. I don't remember it that way.
Q. So if your good friend of 35 years testifies to that, that would be a false statement; correct?
A. I don't remember learning about any sort of addiction problem or problem with drugs until after the
tour was over.
Q. My question is, sir: if your good friend of 35 years, Dr. Finkelstein, testified and has testified under
oath that he told you during the tour that he believed Michael Jackson had an addiction problem with
pain medications, that would be false testimony; correct?
A. I don't think I -- yeah. I don't remember that happening.
Q. Well, you don't remember, or it's false that he said that he told you that?
A. I don't remember him telling me that.
Q. Okay. Do you deny that he told you that, sir?
A. Yeah. I don't think he told me that.
Q. Okay. So you deny -- if your good friend of 35 years said that he told you on the tour that in his
opinion, as the doctor on the tour, Michael Jackson had a prescription drug problem during the tour,
and he told you during the tour, that's false testimony by your friend of 35 years against you; correct?
A. I believe he's mistaken.

Q. That's false; right?

A. I believe he's mistaken.
Q. Is that false?
A. I believe he's mistaken.
Q. Okay. And Dr. Finkelstein, if he testified that he put Michael Jackson on a 24-hour morphine drip on
that tour, that would be false testimony, too; right?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation that they ever asked him --
Judge: Sustained.
Q. No. Did he tell you if Dr. Finkelstein said he told you -- hold on a second. Did Dr. Finkelstein tell
you that he put Michael Jackson on a 24-hour morphine drip?
A. No.
Q. Did Dr. Finkelstein tell all the promoters of that tour, including you -- and I know you weren't a
promoter -- that in his opinion, Michael Jackson had a prescription drug problem?
A. No.
Q. He was right, wasn't he, sir?
A. We found out, yes, that there was a prescription drug problem.
Q. And when Dr. Finkelstein told all the promoters and you, nobody listened to him, did they?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Sustained.

Q. Did you listen to Dr. Finkelstein when he told you that he believed Michael Jackson had a
prescription drug problem on that tour?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation. Argumentative.
Judge: Sustained. He already said he never told him that. He denied that.
Mr. Panish: Okay.
Q. You'd talk to Dr. Finkelstein on that tour every day, wouldn't you, sir?
A. A lot.
Q. And Dr. Finkelstein, he wasn't even the doctor on that tour that was supposed to be treating
Michael Jackson, was he?
A. No. He was the -- he was sent for the crew and the band.
Q. So that means he wasn't supposed to be treating Dr. -- or Mr. Jackson; right?
A. His job was to treat the crew and the band.
Q. And Mr. Jackson was supposed to be treated by Dr. Forecast, an anesthesiologist from London, on
that tour; correct?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled. If he knows.
A. Dr. Forecast was his doctor, but I didn't know what his specialty was.
Q. Well, you knew he was treating Michael Jackson on that tour, didn't you, sir?
A. I knew he was Michael Jackson's personal physician, yes.
Q. On the tour?

A. On the tour.
Q. Now, Dr. Ratner, you know that doctor?
A. No.
Q. You've never heard that name before today, Dr. Ratner?
A. No.
Q. And, sir, when you were in charge of the -- strike that. The History Tour, you said you were dealing
with the a party; right?
A. Yeah. I dealt with the whole tour.
Q. Okay. And do you have itineraries on the people on the tour, and the names and the rooms, and
who took rooms?
A. Somewhere.
Q. Okay. And Dr. Ratner, did you go to south africa on that tour, sir?
A. I think at the very end, we did, yes.
Q. And Dr. Ratner, he traveled with part of the tour with Mr. Jackson, didn't he, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I don't believe so.
Q. Well, you have the documents, don't you, sir, that said he traveled on the tour?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Mr. Panish: He just said he did.

Judge: Overruled, if he has them.

A. I don't recall Dr. Ratner being on the tour at all.
Q. That wasn't my question, sir. My question was: you have the documents that say who was on the
tour that you were in charge of, don't you, sir?
A. I don't know if I still have the tour itineraries or not.
Q. You have documents stating who was on the tour, and who was getting rooms, don't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor.
Judge: Overruled. The question is: do you have documents?
A. I don't know if I have those or not. I don't know if I still have them.
Q. Well, your policy is to save all of that tour memorabilia, isn't it, sir?
A. Generally I do, yeah.
Q. Because -- I mean, this is the greatest artist of all time that you're working with. You want to keep
memorabilia. That's part of being in the business; right?
A. Not for me.
Q. You don't collect memorabilia?
A. Memorabilia? Not really.
Q. You collect guitars?
A. No.
Q. You don't collect any memorabilia? Is that your testimony?
A. Not really.

Q. Does that "not really" mean "no," "yes," "maybe," "partially"? What does that mean?
A. I don't know. I may still have a couple of t-shirts from the tour, or a jacket, or something like that. But
I don't collect it.
Q. Didn't you see Mr. Jackson wearing a patch during that tour, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Vague as to "tour."
Judge: Vague as to "patch." Sustained.
Q. Duragesic patch. Do you know what that is, sir?
A. No.
Q. You don't know patches that gives pain medication to an individual?
A. I don't know about that.
Q. You don't remember that on the Dangerous Tour, sir?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You told us that -- travis payne, you knew him well; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you learn that travis payne had seen Mr. Jackson in a condition that he described as "assisted
and under the influence of prescription medications at rehearsals"?
A. On This Is It?
Q. This Is It.
A. No, I didn't know that.
Q. Okay. Well, Kenny Ortega was there. As you told us, he was the person in charge of safety and the

artist's safety; right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony.
Judge: Overruled.
A. Could I see it?
Q. I knew you were going to ask that. Since your lawyer said it misstates your testimony, let's see what
you said. 5787, 6 to 19, yesterday when your lawyer was questioning you. You don't remember what
you said yesterday about Kenny Ortega's job duties?
A. I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
Q. Okay. We'll see what you said. It says:
Question: I'm noting that Mr. Ortega repeatedly asked talks about 'for safety reasons,
Mr. Jackson, please hold on,' et cetera. Does that surprise you?
Answer: no, no. Kenny was very careful.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Uhm, he was -- he always had safety in mind. He was always concerned about safety
and about his artist.
Did you say that, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. That's improper impeachment. It doesn't say that.
Judge: Overruled.
A. It says that, yeah.
Q. Yeah. And Kenny, part of his job, as you told me, was safety, because he's the director; right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.

Judge: Overruled.
A. Yeah. Kenny was concerned about safety.
Q. Well, that was part of his job as the director of the show, wasn't it, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Same objection.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I'm sure he wanted his artist to be safe.
Q. Sir, who was -- is safety paramount at AEG Live?
A. Uhm --
Q. It's not there.
Mr. Panish: You can take that down. Don't want to confuse you there.
Q. Do you know what paramount means, sir? You used that the other day, didn't you? Paramount?
A. I don't recall.
Q. You know what paramount means?
A. Means important, I guess, yeah.
Q. Okay. Is safety paramount to AEG Live?
A. Safety should be important all the time.
Q. Okay. And who at AEG Live was in charge of safety at the rehearsals?
A. I don't think anybody was specified as the safety officer.
Q. So no one was in charge of safety at rehearsals for This Is It; is that true?
A. I don't think anyone was specified as a safety officer.

Q. So it is true, is it not, sir, that no one from AEG Live was in charge of safety at the rehearsals;
correct?
A. I mean, I think it's everybody's job to be aware of safety. But was there anybody specifically in
charge? I don't know.
Q. So you don't know whether anyone from AEG Live was supposed to make sure there was a safe
work environment; correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And Mr. Ortega, he wasn't in charge of making sure the artist was safe, was he?
A. Well, I'm sure he was concerned about artist safety, yes.
Q. Well, he sent Mr. Jackson -- he wouldn't let him go on the stage because he was worried he could
hurt himself, didn't he, sir?
A. You're referring, I think, to the 19th, I believe.
Q. I'll refer to whatever you want me to, sir. Did Mr. Ortega ever not let Mr. Jackson rehearse because
he had safety concerns? "Yes" or "No"?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's what you would expect him to do on behalf of AEG Live, isn't it, sir?
A. I think -- yeah. We expect everyone to be safe and act safe.
Q. But you would certainly expect the director in charge of the show to be concerned with the safety of

the most important asset to the show, wouldn't you, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Ortega was concerned about Mr. Jackson's safety and his health, wasn't he, sir?
A. Yes, I believe he was.
Q. And that's why he was sending emails to everyone about that, isn't it, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation and calls for speculation.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: Okay.
Q. Now, sir, you told us about you never had a single ounce of concern for Mr. Jackson's health except
for that one date of June 19th; right?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. And this was despite Bugzee, who you said was not a drama queen, seeing Mr. Jackson
every day, saying in an email that he saw Mr. Jackson deteriorating in front of his own eyes over eight
weeks; correct? That didn't concern you at all, did it, sir?
A. Well, I had my own input. I saw Michael Jackson as well, so it didn't come certainly to the place of
alarm.
Q. It didn't concern you at all, sir?
A. Didn't alarm me, certainly.
Q. Did it concern you or not, sir?
A. No, not particularly.

Q. Is that a "yes" or "no"?

A. Well, it's an -- I didn't have a particular concern.
Q. So you had no concern?
A. Well, I mean, you're always concerned about everything.
Q. You were at the meeting with Michael Jackson, weren't you, sir, when he signed the contract?
A. Yes.
Q. And he -- according to others, wouldn't it be true that he read every word of the contract?
A. That's right.
Q. And you said that, too; right?
A. I did.
Q. And you, or no one at AEG Ever sent the contract between AEG And Dr. Murray to Mr. Jackson, or
to any of his representatives; correct?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Well, let's you're certainly unaware of anyone from AEG Providing that contract to Mr.
Jackson or any of his representatives; correct?
A. I'm not aware, no.
Q. And, sir, when you were negotiating with Travis Payne, there was a problem, and you turned it over
to Michael Jackson's people to get his contract done, didn't you, sir?

A. I believe I turned it over to his manager.

Q. Frank Dileo?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Because there was a problem, and you were done with it, and you didn't want to deal with it
anymore; right?
A. I was at a place on that contract where I couldn't move it any further forward.
Q. Well, let's look at what was attached to exhibit 266. Exhibit -- page 5 of 266. Now, this is what was
said to you and Conrad Murray. And you see paragraph 4.1, sir? This is under the "responsibilities of
Dr. Murray." you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. It says
Mr. Putnam: Your honor, this lacks foundation. He said he's never seen it before today.
Mr. Panish: It was sent to him.
Judge: Overruled.
Mr. Panish: That he --
Judge: Is this the one that was sent to him, though?
Mr. Panish: Yes.
Q. You're not disputing you ever received this, are you, sir?
A. I never received it, but I never read it.
Q. Wait a minute. You did receive it or you didn't?
A. I received it, but I didn't read it.

Q. And -- well, why don't you read it now for us, sir. What does it say that Dr. Murray's responsibilities
are in this document that was sent to you on June 16th, 2009?
Mr. Putnam: Same objection, your honor.
Judge: What is your objection?
Mr. Putnam: my objection is he's never seen this. He has no basis to say anything.
Judge: he's seeing it now. Overruled. It was sent to him. All right.
Gongaware: (reading Murray's contract) "4. Responsibilities of Dr. Murray. Without in any way limiting
any other term or provision of this agreement or any obligation of Dr. Murray hereunder, Dr. Murray
Shall: 4.1. Perform the services reasonably requested by producer. 4.2. Adhere to all laws, policies,
rules and regulations applicable to his services.
Mr. Panish: Time out.
Mr. Putnam: Your honor --
Mr. Panish: I just wanted him to read 4.1. What's the problem, counsel?
Judge: Is there more to 4.1?
Mr. Putnam: I just wanted him to be able to finish his answer.
Mr. Panish: No. There's no more to 4.1.
Judge: Let's just read 4.1. Is that just that one line?
Mr. Panish: Yes. That's all there is.
Judge: Okay. One line?
Gongaware: Read it again, your honor?
Q. Mr. Gongaware -- go ahead. Read it again.
A. (reading Murray's contract again) 4.1. Perform the services reasonably requested by producer.

Q. And you -- that email came to you. You never forwarded it to any of Michael Jackson's people, did
you?
A. No.
Q. And you don't know if anyone from AEG Ever provided this to Michael Jackson, his agent, his
manager, his lawyers, anyone; correct?
A. Yeah. I don't think that they would do that until they had an agreement that they were satisfied with
on their side before they would forward it to anyone else.
Q. Thank you. Now, could you answer my question, sir?
A. And your question was?
Q. Do you think Michael Jackson would agree with paragraph 4.1, sir?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Did you or anyone from AEG, to your knowledge, ever send this portion of the contract, or any
contract, draft, signed, between Dr. Murray and AEG Live to Michael Jackson and his people?
Mr. Putnam: Objection. Asked and answered.
Mr. Panish: He hasn't answered it.
Judge: Overruled. Well, did you ever send it to Michael Jackson?
Mr. Panish: I already asked him.
Judge: Hold on. Did you send it to Michael Jackson?

Gongaware: No.
Q. Do you know if anyone from AEG, anyone in the whole company, ever sent it?
A. I wasn't dealing with this, so I don't know what anyone else did.
Q. So you don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
Mr. Panish: how is that, your honor? Is this
A. Good time?
(lunch break)
Q. How you doing, Mr. Gongaware?
A. Doing okay.
Q. We're in the home stretch, I hope. All Right?
A. How long is the home stretch?
Q. We're not playing for overtime. Okay?
A. Okay.
Q. Fourth quarter. Okay, sir did you have a chance to meet with the attorneys over lunch?
A. We had lunch.

Q. You didn't discuss the case, right?

A. We talked about a few things, sure.
Q. Okay. Now, sir, yesterday -- I wanted to show you exhibit 8, dash, 35-e. It was shown by counsel.
Do you remember this, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And is that Mr. Dileo? Your lawyer pointed out, circled that for you; and, of course -- oh, yeah. I've
actually got my laser pointer. Check it out. Anyway, Mr. Dileo, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And we've heard you tell us many times who Mr. Dileo is, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. Now, this was April 15th, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that gentleman in the front, Mr. Payne, that was a man that you were having problems
negotiating his contract, right?
A. With his agent, yes.
Q. Right, And you turned that over to Mr. Dileo, who at the time you believed was Mr. Jacksons
manager, correct?

A. Yes.
Q. And Dr. Murray's contract, you never turned that over to Mr. Dileo or anyone for Mr. Jackson, did
you?
A. I didn't, no.
Q. No one from AEG Did, to your knowledge, did they?
A. I don't know. I mean, it was still in draft form, so I don't know where -- where it stood.
Q. Well, sir, AEG was the only entity or person that you're aware of that wanted a contract with
Dr. Murray, correct?
Mr. Putnam: Objection; lacks foundation.
The Judge: As far as he knows. Overruled.
A. I don't -- yeah, as far as I know.
Q. and, sir, yesterday you told us that you told Mr. Dileo that Dr. Murray
demanded $5 million, right?
A. Yeah, at some point, I did.
Q. You told us that yesterday, didn't you?
A. I -- you said -- yes, at some point, I did.
Q. And you never turned it over to him to negotiate, right?

A. No.
Q. And you also said you told Randy Phillips That Mr. -- or Dr. Murray demanded 5 million, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you tell that to Randy Phillips?
A. It would have been within the same day, A couple of days later, maybe, at the most.
Q. So within a couple -- so within a day or two of your conversation, your first conversation?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. And did Mr. Phillips think that was a red flag?
Mr. Putnam: objection; vague as to "red flag."
The Judge: sustained.
Q. well, sir, I want you to assume that your expert -- do you know Marty Hom?
A. Yes, I know him.
Q. He's an expert that's -- you talked to him about the Rolling Stones tour, didn't you?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And you told him you might want to use him on the rolling stones tour, right?
A. I was checking his availability.

Q. And he told you he'd like to do the Rolling Stones tour, didn't he?
A. He would like to but he was tied up with Fleetwood Mac.
Q. But after that, you told -- you're aware that AEG Hired him to be their expert witness in this case
after you talked to him about the Rolling Stones?
A. I believe they did, yeah.
Q. You referred him to them, didn't you?
A. I gave them some names of guys who were experts.
Q. And one was Mr. Hom, whom you considered respectable in the industry, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And I want you to assume that Mr. Hom has already testified when Dr. Murray asked for the
$5 million, that would be a red flag. Okay? Do you understand that?
A. I understand, but I didn't hear that from him.
Q. Okay. You wouldn't agree with that, though, right?
A. Well, like I said before, people were constantly coming up and asking for a lot more than
they -- than their market rate would be with Michael because they thought he had all the money in the
world.
Q. My question was, sir, would you agree or disagree with Mr. Hom that that was a red flag when Dr.
Murray demanded $5 million?
A. No, I don't think it was a red flag.
Q. So you would disagree?

A. I would disagree.
Q. Have you discussed this case at all with Mr. Hom?
A. No.
Q. Now, sir, yesterday when your lawyer was questioning you, you were asked questions about the
conversations with Michael Amir. And I've asked you about those specifically. At least there was one,
anyway, specifically. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, sir, exhibit 175 -- I don't need to put it back up, but that's the one where you say
done -- paraphrasing, done at 150 k per -- a month per MJ something like that. Do you remember that
e-mail?
A. I do.
Q. Okay. And, sir, yesterday you were asked by your lawyer how long after that e-mail was it that you
had the -- strike that. You were asked by your lawyer the time between the first conversation, the $5
million, and the 150,000 conversation. Do you remember those questions?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember what your testimony was yesterday afternoon?
A. Not specifically.
Q. Okay. Well, let's show it to you. 5823-7 to 9. This is when Mr. Putnam was questioning you
yesterday afternoon. I think -- actually, I correct that. I think it was in the morning, late morning, but I
-- it was sometime the 3rd. Was the 3rd yesterday? Yes. Okay. It was yesterday. Let's show the witness
what he said. Do you remember giving that testimony yesterday, sir?
A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Well, do you remember before that, A couple of days before that, when I asked you that exact
question?
A. I remember you asking it, yes.
Q. And do you remember testifying under oath something different than you did yesterday?
A. My first recollection was that it was A couple of weeks, and then you tried to get me -- get a
range out of me.
Q. Well, sir, I showed you what you told the police, didn't I?
A. I don't recall.
Q. You don't recall me showing you your statement to the police when your lawyer, Mr. Putnam,
was present when you were interviewed by the Los Angeles Police Department?
A. Yeah, I remember seeing the statement.
Q. Well, let's see what you said when I questioned you about that, sir. And I believe that
would be at page 5186 -- let's start -- all right. Excuse me. It's 51 -- I don't know what line it is.
Could I see the transcript? 5186-6 to 5187-14. Okay. Now, this is -- remember I was
questioning you, sir, you talked about the exhibit 175? Right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then I asked you whether you wrote it the same day that you had the conversation, you said
you didn't recall, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And, again, I asked you does that seem to lead you to believe that you had that conversation on the
16th -- excuse me -- the 6th. And again, you didn't remember, right?
A. Right.
Q. And then it says "done at 150 per." And go to the next page. "yes." And "that first conversation,

anywhere from two to four weeks before May 6th, 2009, correct?" What was your answer to that?
A. "yes."
Q. Okay. And that's different than what you testified to yesterday, right, sir?
A. Yesterday, there were two e-mails that refreshed my recollection. The -- the May 6th was the
one that I sent the answer to to Michael Amir; but the first one, that was the one that counsel showed
me when the Nokia theater dance auditions were, and that was the 13th through the 15th. And I
remember that conversation happening after the Nokia Theater.
Q. You didn't say that when I was questioning you, did you, sir?
A. No.
Q. And you didn't say that under oath in your Deposition, did you, sir?
A. No. Those e-mails refreshed my recollection.
Q. And then I said, "maybe five weeks? You've said that before, haven't you?" And your answer was,
"might have been." "so it was two -- two to five weeks before May 6th is your best estimate of when
you had the first Conversation with Dr. Murray where he demanded the 5 million, right?" Answer,
"yes." and, sir, you know that you read your deposition, looked at all the e-mails and signed it under
penalty of perjury, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't correct anything about what the time difference was, did you, sir?
A. No. But the e-mails yesterday reminded me of the timing.
Q. Okay. So it was after your lawyer and you met you were able to remember that?
Mr. Putnam: objection; misstates testimony, Your Honor.
The Judge: overruled.

A. no. It was the e-mails that actually reminded me because I know it was after the Nokia dance
auditions.
Q. well, when you met with the police right after this, you didn't say a couple of
weeks, did you, sir?
A. I don't recall specifically what I said to them.
Q. Now, sir, when you met to prepare for those two days for your deposition, did you review did
your lawyer show you any e-mails?
A. No.
Q. So there was a decision made for you not to see any e-mails. That was a strategy, right?
Mr. Putnam: objection; Your Honor.
The Judge: sustained.
Q. well, sir, your lawyers didn't show you any e-mails before your deposition,
right?
A. Right.
Q. Would you have expected, in preparation to give truthful and honest testimony to the fullest
extent, you would have seen the e-mails that you were involved in?
Mr. Putnam: objection; lacks foundation.
The Judge: overruled.

A. I would expect that my lawyers were acting in my best interest.

Q. okay. Would you think that them acting in your best interest would be for you not to remember
anything?
A. No. I testified to what I remembered.
Q. Sir, do you think it was in your best interest not to see any e-mails and testify about all the e-mails
that you didn't remember anything?
A. I don't know. That's a judgment.
Q. Well, do you -- I'm asking for your judgment. Did you think it was in your best interest as an
executive in this case not to see any e-mails before you testified under oath that is to be considered the
same as given in court and saying you didn't remember writing or sending the e-mails?
A. I relied on the advice of my attorney.
Q. Did you think that was in your best interest? I don't know what your attorney said, I don't want to
know that. I want to know you, sir --
A. I think his advice is in my best interest.
Q. So you felt it was in your best interest not to remember anything about the e-mails in your
deposition; is that correct?
Mr. Putnam: objection, your honor; misstates the Testimony.
The Judge: sustained.
Q. did you feel it was in your best interest not to review any e-mails before giving testimony under oath
that's to be considered by the jury as the same as it's given here today?
A. Try that again, please.

Q. Okay. Fair enough. Do you know what it means to be in your best interest? you're the one that
brought that up, right?
A. Yes, I think so.
Q. Okay. Do you think it was in your best interest when preparing for your testimony under oath in this
case in December not to review any e-mails and not remember about them?
A. I relied on my attorney's advice; so yes, I think it was in my best interest.
Q. Okay. And that was your attorney's advice to you, not to review any e-mails; is that right?
Mr. Putnam: objection, your honor; that asks for Attorney/client.
The Judge: it does. Sustained.
Q. did you, on your own -- Strike that. You still had all the e-mails you sent, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes, in my computer somewhere, yeah.
Q. Did you yourself want -- because you told us how this is the only time you've been sued for
wrongful death, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't you want to know everything and be fully prepared to testify under oath in a case like
this?
A. I don't know. I -- I didn't want to do any of this.
Q. Well, sir -- is it your opinion, sir, this is a baseless shakedown lawsuit?

A. I don't understand the merit in it.

Q. So you think it's a baseless shakedown lawsuit against you, right?
A. I didn't say that, I just don't understand what the merit is.
Q. Okay. And you, sir, answered interrogatories in this case blaming Mrs. Jackson for all this, didn't
you, sir?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. And you've called Mrs. Jackson an extortionist, haven't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: objection, your honor; lacks Foundation.
The Judge: overruled.
A. I don't believe I ever said that.
Q. you never signed anything under oath in this case saying that Mrs. Jackson is trying to extort money
from AEG?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Well, you told us you reviewed everything you signed for your lawyers, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you -- did you say under oath in this case that you don't believe Mr. Jacksons children have
suffered any loss?
A. I don't recall saying that.

Q. Do you believe they have suffered a loss, sir?

A. I think they've suffered a great loss.
Q. Substantial. Wouldn't you agree with me on that?
A. Losing their dad, yeah.
Q. Now, sir -- I'm trying to get through this quickly. Oh, you told us yesterday about the licensing
board for doctors in the U.K. Do you remember that testimony, sir?
A. I remember talking about licensing in the UK but I don't know that I talked about the board.
Q. Well, do you remember saying there's a licensing board over there, as well, that has to agree to
somebody to be practicing medicine?
A. Something along those lines, yeah.
Q. Do you remember testifying to that yesterday?
A. I believe I did.
Q. Okay. Tell us what -- when you first learned about the licensing board in the U.K.
A. Just -- it's just general knowledge. I don't know specifically. But the UK. Has a a licensing board
for just about everything.
Q. Okay. How do you know they have a licensing board for doctors from the U.S. to practice over
there?
A. I don't know. I just know.
Q. Okay. Who told you?

A. I don't recall.
Q. When did you first learn?
A. Just part of my general information, general knowledge. I don't know when I learned it.
Q. What's required?
A. Don't know. I just know that -- just know that a doctor just can't walk in there and start practicing.
Q. How do you know that?
A. It's common sense more than anything.
Q. Well, is there a law? Have you seen any statutes? Has anyone told you? Have you reviewed
anything? How do you know that, sir?
A. Just knew it.
Q. But you don't know how you knew it? It just showed up in your mind some day?
A. Sure.
Q. Okay. What day did it show up in your mind?
A. I don't recall, sir.
Q. Okay. Now, I want to show you exhibit 7433, which you were shown the first page of yesterday. It's
in front of you there if you want me to dig it out for you, somewhere. You were familiar with that
yesterday, right? You testified all about it. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Put that up, please. This is what Mr. Putnam was showing you, questioning you about, yesterday
afternoon. Do you remember that?

A. Yes.
Q. And this is where you say that Michael Jackson is way beyond Elvis and led zeppelin, right? Do
you remember testifying about this yesterday, sir?
A. Oh, I see it now, yes.
Q. Do you remember that? You talked all about that with Mr. Putnam?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you forget that?
A. No; I remember.
Q. Okay. And then you said "and then there's Michael Jackson. He's beyond even these icons, Elvis,
Led Zeppelin and Prince," right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's true, right?
A. I believe it is, yes.
Q. Yeah. And then you went on to say "last night he ran nine songs with full band, singers, dancers."
Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Jackson didn't dance any of those songs, did he, sir?
A. I don't recall if he danced or not. He ran the songs.

Q. Okay. Well, sir, all you recall is what's in this e-mail, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the e-mails are the best recollection of what occurred to you because of your memory, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So the best evidence of what you were doing during this time frame would be your e-mails,
wouldn't they, sir?
A. That and I -- and just what was on my mind at the time.
Q. Sir, you -- if you couldn't remember the e-mails, the best evidence would be the e-mail, wouldn't it,
sir?
A. Or what was on my mind at the time.
Q. If you can't remember what was on your mind, the best evidence would be the e-mails, wouldn't it,
sir?
A. Well, it would help me remember.
Q. But if you can't even remember writing it, the best evidence is what you wrote. you didn't lie or say
untrue things in the e-mails, did you, sir?
A. I don't think so.
Q. So the best and most accurate evidence of what occurred would be your e-mails, wouldn't it, sir?
A. That and what was on my mind.
Q. All right. Let me show you -- oh, but I wanted to finish up with this Now, sir, you don't know the
songs that were done that night, correct?

A. No, I don't remember.

Q. You don't have any -- any explicit or specific recollection of what occurred that night, do you?
A. Specific, no.
Q. All you know is what it says in the e-mail, right?
A. Right.
Q. So when you were testifying yesterday about him being amazing and nine songs, that's just -- you're
just saying what it says in the e-mail, right?
A. No. He was always amazing.
Q. Was he -- what day was that, sir, do you remember? Without looking at the e-mail, do you know,
sir?
A. Not without looking at the e-mail, no.
Q. And as far as you were concerned, Mr. Jackson was always amazing every time, even when he was
deteriorating in front of Bugzee's eyes over eight weeks, correct?
A. I thought when he got onstage, he was. He was great, he was captivating.
Q. Despite the fact that Mr. Bugzee told you that he was deteriorating in front of his own eyes over
eight weeks, right?
A. Well, my eyes told me differently.
Q. But he saw him much more than you did, didn't he?

A. He probably saw him more than I did, yes.

Q. And this is the e-mail where you talked about what a great dad Mr. Jackson was, loving and raising
his children, right?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Now, I want to show you another exhibit. I'll give you a copy. This is exhibit number --
defense exhibit 9096. Did you write that, Mr. Gongaware?
A. I don't recall writing it, but I -- yeah, I probably did, sure.
Q. Is Wolfie a friend of yours?
A. He's a production manager in Germany.
Q. So business acquaintance, then?
A. Business acquaintance, yes.
Q. And he's sending his condolences to you about Michael Jacksons death, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then he wanted to get tickets to come to the memorial ceremony, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he come?
A. I don't know. I don't recall.
Q. On that memorial service, do you remember You said earlier that it was unknown whether Michael

Jackson -- how his audience would be in the U.S.? Do you remember saying that this morning?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Tell us, when the Staples Center put out the tickets for the public to come to the memorial
service, did the requests come faster than the computer could take them in?
A. There were a lot of requests. I don't know whether it was faster than the computer, but there were a
lot of requests.
Q. How many were there, sir?
A. I don't recall specifically.
Q. More than 250,000?
A. I'd be guessing, whatever number I give you; but there were a lot.
Q. It was unbelievable, the most incredible thing you'd ever seen in a response, wasn't it, sir?
A. It was a lot.
Q. Have you ever seen any more quick, rapid response to come to an event than that, sir?
A. If it was, it would have been the on sale for the Michael Jackson shows in London.
Q. And you said -- you can take that all Doc -- wait. Okay. Then it says -- can you read what you
wrote, sir?
A. And I reply "thanks, wolfie. I was working on the Elvis tour when he died, so I knew what to
expect. Still quite a shock. I have tickets for you if you want to go on tuesday."

Q. And "quite a shock," is that Mr. Jackson dying?

A. Yes.
Q. Now, sir -- he keeps interrupting my Questions. You can take that -- what was I asking?
Oh. Okay. You can take that -- Was it true that you could have sold out over 100 concerts at the 02
arena?
A. If every -- I checked the queue, the amount of people still in line to buy tickets when it sold out; and
if every one would have bought the limit, which I think was four tickets, we could have sold it out, yes.
Q. 100 shows?
A. Yes.
Q. And to get in the queue, you gotta give your credit card information and be ready to pay right then,
right?
A. No, no. It's -- it's a different queue. Just kind of a wait room, we'd call it.
Q. All right. Now, I don't know how we got -- Yesterday -- or, excuse me, two days ago, you --
Couldn't be two days ago. May 30th. Thursday. I guess we were here Thursday. You were -- your
counsel asked you do you have an understanding as you sit here of the cause of Mr. Presley's death. Do
you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember what you testified that day under oath?
A. A heart ailment.
Q. Uh-huh. And do you remember when I asked you that same question, sir, two days before?

A. I don't remember that.

Q. Do you remember giving a different answer when I asked you that question, sir?
A. I don't remember what my answer was when I talked --
Mr. Panish: all right. Well, let's take a look at it. 577-26 to 578-11. Mr. Boyle: 5077 to 5078.
Mr. Panish: that's just -- we already covered that. I don't need to go back. That's just the first
part, so you know where we are.
Q. All right. And then I asked you, "sir, Elvis Presley died related to prescription drugs, Correct?" You
answered, "I believe he did." Do you remember that testimony under oath,
sir?
A. Yes.
Q. That's different than what you testified two days later, isn't it?
A. Well, I think even though the coroner -- the Memphis coroner said that he died of a heart condition;
and a few years later, they reopened it; and the coroner did say the same thing, but I think there were
some prescription drug issues, as well.
Q. Well, you told Dr. Finkelstein about Dr. Nick with Elvis, didn't you, sir?
Mr. Putnam: objection; lacks foundation.
The Judge: overruled.
A. I don't know if I told Dr. Finkelstein that; but I think I said if I did, it would have been good advice.

Q. now, sir -- You can take that down. Did you ever see Michael Jackson when he had any fittings,
since you were around every day?
A. I didn't -- I didn't go in when they were doing fittings, no.
Q. All right, sir. You talked about Mr. Jackson and world tours and residencies this morning when
counsel was questioning you. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you know who Thomas Ovesen is, O-v-e-s-e-n?
A. He may be a promoter in Dubai, if it's the same one I'm thinking of.
Q. He's known for bringing the world's biggest music stars to the Middle East, isn't he, sir?
A. He's a promoter over there.
Q. And, sir, he used to work for AEG As a managing director, didn't he?
A. I believe at one time we had an office there, he was in that office.
Q. Is that a "yes"?
A. I don't know if he was a managing director.
Q. Well, now he works -- as of July 2009 and 10, he worked for Dunn events, and has taken on AEG
interests in the middle east, hasn't he, sir?
A. I don't deal with that, so I'm not sure what his, the position is now.
Q. Okay. Well, let's look at exhibit number 57960, see if that refreshes your recollection. Were you
writing some of those e-mails, Mr. Gongaware?

A. Yes.
Q. Let's put that up. Now, first of all, Mr. Ovesen -- where is He writing this e-mail from in 2009?
What company is he working for, sir?
A. AEG Live.
Q. He's working for your company, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't know who he was, though, right?
A. I knew who he was.
Q. Well, sir, he was involved in doing concerts, and he was trying to get Michael to come to India,
wasn't he, sir?
A. He was -- yes, inquiring about an interest from India.
Q. Right. And what did Randy Phillips tell him in response to the request for his clients to get Michael
to come to India?
A. He said "thanks, Thomas. MJ Will definitely be heading your way."
Q. So that means, at least according to Mr. Phillips, there was definitely plans for Michael to go to
India for a show, correct? Unless he wasn't telling the truth, right?
A. Well, I think we were all hoping and planning; but we had no commitment other than the 50 shows.
Q. Well, did you tell the man from your own company that, you know, "we're planning and hoping that
Michael will go to India, but we don't know"? Did you tell him that?

A. No. And I think we would have -- as I sit here, I think we would have invited key promoters to see
the show hoping that we would be able to continue.
Mr. Panish: no. But, sir, my question was -- We've got to go up to the other e-mail on the next
page. You planned -- It's 279.
Mr. Boyle: 579.
Mr. Panish: 57961.
Q. This is what Mr. Phillips responds, right?
A. I think that's the first e-mail in this chain.
Q. Well, Mr. Phillips is responding to Thomas, isn't he, sir?
A. He appears to be.
Q. And he's telling him that "we're definitely headed your way," meaning India, right?
A. Thomas's way would have been the Middle East.
Q. Okay. So you planned on going to the Middle East, then, right?
A. I'm thinking we were hoping on going a lot of places.
Q. Did you say that you were hoping to go there, or you were definitely heading that way?
A. I didn't say that at all.
Q. Mr. Phillips, your boss, what did he say?
A. He said "thanks, Thomas. MJ will definitely be heading your way."

Q. So he didn't say "we're planning, we're hoping," he said "definitely," right?

A. That's what he wrote.
Q. Was it your experience that Mr. Phillips would lie to other people from AEG Live about the
intentions of the company?
A. I don't think so.
Q. So he was telling the truth there?
A. I think we were all hoping and trying to make plans in case Michael did say okay, let's go.
Q. You don't say that in that e-mail, though, do you, sir?
A. No. The only thing I said was we would be inviting serious promoters to London this summer to see
the show and discuss their offers in person.
Q. All right. Now, you had created a four-year plan, hadn't you, sir?
A. In my mind.
Q. Did you put it in writing, anyone from your company?
A. There was an early -- before we even signed a Contract, there was an early plan; but I don't recall
specifically if it was four years or what.
Q. Okay. Well, let's see if we can refresh your recollection with 57949 and 50. Let me get it for you.
How many pages are on that one I just gave you?
A. This one is just two.

Q. Okay. Were you involved in this e-mail chain, sir?

A. Yes. It seems to be out of order.
Q. It could be. Okay. This -- on the bottom here, we have, on March 17th, 2009 -- so this is after the
contract was signed, right?
A. The contract with Michael Jackson?
Q. Right.
A. Yes.
Q. And it says that -- you know, you didn't think you could sell 50, you could have sold 100 shows. Do
you remember I asked you that earlier?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you said "now I have to get him through the performances," right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have some concern whether you could get him through the performances then?
A. No. Just had to do it.
Q. Well, actually, this is Randy talking. And then it says "we have a four-year plan that includes
Australia; however, we have to finish London first," right?
A. Yes, that's what he said.
Q. And this person -- you didn't like this person, right?

A. I'm not sure who you're talking about.

Q. We're talking about this promoter, Paul Dainty, D-a-I-n-t-y. If we look in the middle, right above
Mr. Phillips, you're c.c.'d. You respond about Mr. Dainty. obviously, you don't like Mr. Dainty, right?
A. No, I don't.
Q. So you weren't letting him do any concert in Australia, right?
A. If it was up to me.
Q. Well, was it up to you? That's my question. AEG could decide whether Michael Jackson could do
concerts in Australia?
Mr. Putnam: objection
A. Michael Jackson would have to decide that.
The Judge: overruled.
Q. But what was AEG -- why was AEG Not turning this over to Michael Jacksons manager?
A. I don't think anybody was ready to discuss it at that point still with -- still had to go through London
first.
Q. But my question is, why wouldn't you tell Michael Jacksons people that these people are
interested? Wouldn't that be common in the business, to tell the people that represent this individual
that, "hey, these people want to do the show. I just want to give you this information"?
A. No. I think the managers knew that there was a lot of demand for Michael Jackson around the world.
Q. So you didn't think it was necessary for you or Mr. Phillips to provide this information to Mr.
Jackson or any manager or agent or anyone that you were constantly dealing with, correct?

A. At this point, no. He had 50 shows and we had to deal with that first.
Q. So the answer is you didn't think it was necessary, right?
A. I didn't think it was necessary at this point.
Q. Okay. Fair enough. Now a couple of questions on the subject of Michael Jacksons use of
prescription drugs, or any drugs. You told us that at no point in June of 2009 did you have any
information that Michael Jackson was ever using any substances or under the influence of any
substances, correct?
A. Right.
Q. In fact, you said the entire time you ever saw him dealing with him in this thing -- this "This Is It,"
"I never saw him ever under the influence of anything," right?
Mr. Putnam: objection; misstates prior testimony.
The Judge: sustained.
Q. did you ever see Michael Jackson under the influence of any prescription medication in June of
2009?
A. Well, there was the one time when he -- like we talked about before when he came into the meeting
late, and he did appear to have something -- something wasn't quite right.
Q. So you knew that, right?
A. I believe at that one point after he came back from his doctor, at that time, yes, that something was
going on.
Q. And did you do anything to investigate that?
A. No. He was at his doctor's.

Q. The answer is "no"?

A. The answer is "no," he was at his doctor's. I didn't see a need to investigate.
Q. Okay. All right. Let me just go to -- This whole thing that you said about the physical, let's talk
about that. Mr. Jackson had a physical before he began any rehearsals, right?
A. Right.
Q. And you don't know whether they tested for any benzodiazepines, any opiates, anything, right?
A. I was told he had a blood test, but I don't know what the blood test was.
Q. You know there are different types of blood tests? You know that?
A. Yes.
Q. If you just get a regular blood test, that doesn't necessarily screen for opiates and things like that.
Do you understand that?
A. I understand that; but with Lloyd's of London willing to make an investment, I believe that they
would have tested for anything they thought might be an issue, and I --
Q. Well, sir, Lloyd's of London wasn't even doing the test, were they?
A. It was being done for them.
Q. It was being done by the broker that your company was paying to go to Lloyd's of London to get
insurance, wasn't it, sir?
Mr. Putnam: objection; lacks foundation.

The Judge: overruled.

A. the test was done by a doctor, we didn't know who he was. He was brought in from New York. I
don't even think that the -- the insurance broker knew. It was a doctor that Lloyd's of London
apparently approved.
Q. OK. Who told you that Lloyd's of London approved that doctor, sir?
A. I don't think we would have done a test -- I don't think we would have had a doctor in there that
Lloyd's wouldn't have accepted.
Q. Sir, Mr. Taylor is the one that suggested the doctor for being client-friendly, wasn't he, sir?
A. I don't think that's the case.
Q. So you -- you dispute what Mr. Trell testified about who selected the doctor? would you think you
know more about this than Mr. Trell?
A. I don't think I know more about this than Mr. Trell. I don't --
Q. Do you dispute that AEG Split the cost of the doctor with the broker who was trying to get the
insurance?
Mr. Putnam: objection; your honor, lacks foundation.
The Judge: overruled. If he knows.
A. I don't know.
Q. who paid for the doctor?
Mr. Putnam: same objection.
The Judge: overruled.

A. I don't know.
Q. did you ever see any blood tests?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what they tested for?
A. No.
Q. Now, at the time that Mr. Jackson when you first met with him in Las Vegas, that was in '07,
right? That's what you told us the other day, anyway.
A. I think it was -- yeah, I think it was --
Q. And he was doing great then, right?
A. Yes.
Q. He had had no rehearsals, right?
A. No, no rehearsals.
Q. No contract with AEG, right?
A. That's right.
Q. No demands being put on him, right?
A. I don't know what the demands were on him.

Q. But he had -- he didn't have to rehearse, he didn't have to meet a schedule, he didn't have to
practice, he didn't have to do choreography, none of that at that time, right?
Mr. Putnam: objection; lacks foundation.
The Judge: overruled.
A. I don't believe so.
Q. and all he was -- wanted to talk to you about initially, you told us, was about -- well, first, you didn't
know why he wanted to talk to you, and you brought your sizzle reel, right?
A. Right.
Q. And then he wanted to talk to you about King Tut and making a movie, and you nixed that idea,
right?
A. We did talk about King Tut in the second meeting, yes.
Q. And he was doing great right then, right?
A. Yes, I think so.
Q. And he hadn't had to go back to rehearsal, And he hadn't had to do any choreography for the show,
None of that?
A. There was no show then.
Q. Right. And he was doing great?
A. Yeah, I think he was great.
Q. And it wasn't until the rehearsals started and there were practices and things like that that Mr.
Bugzee Hougdahl wrote you and said that his physical condition was deteriorating; Isn't that true?

A. That's what Bugzee wrote.

Q. Well, Mr. Ortega wrote e-mails about his condition to you, didn't he, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you spoken to Randy Phillips since you've been testifying here?
A. Other than just to say hello, no.
Q. So you've never discussed your testimony with Randy Phillips?
A. No.
Q. You told us that you were happy being number 2 -- right? -- to Live Nation?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you tell that to Randy Phillips, that you were happy being number 2?
A. Ever? Recently? When?
Q. Anytime.
A. Yeah, I've said I don't need to be Number 1.
Q. Did you tell that to Mr. Anschutz, that you didn't want his company to be number 1?
A. I don't think I had a conversation like that with him.
Q. Okay. And Live Nation -- have you seen the statements that Mr. Phillips has made about Live
Nation?

A. I don't think so.

Q. Have you seen him where he calls them an 800-pound gorilla that you're competing with?
A. I don't recall that one.
Q. Oh, I wanted to just cover this one point. I want to show you first 123-1, the first -- 3815,
Which your lawyer showed you, and 1381, which were -- I'm sorry. 3815 and 123, dash, 1, which were
yesterday. And I don't -- do I have copies of those? Do you still have those? Are those yesterday's
exhibits up there?
A. I think they are.
Q. Okay. Let's see if I can find -- here we go. The last two. He's got them. And I want to first just ask
you do you remember being questioned about that yesterday?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So let's look at the first one, which, in time, I think was 3815. I got it right. And this is the
one that you talked about the meeting, you went in the room with Mr. Jackson at
Center stage, and you talked about all the rehearsal dates, and Mr. Jackson knew what all the dates
were. Do you remember all that?
A. Yes.
Q. And you weren't trying to fool him at that meeting, and he was fully advised of everything, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the date of that meeting? Actually, it was a Monday, I think. Let's see. Today,
We have -- wait a minute. It's the wrong one. What Number is that? 3815. Of course I got the wrong
one. You remember those questions, right? Let me see if this is it. It was a 3/16 meeting. Oh, here it is.
Here it is. It's on the top right here. This one right here. Okay. So this was on march 16th. Do you
remember you talked all about this yesterday, and how you went in the room and you guys went
through everything and Mr. Jackson knew everything, right?

A. We did go through it, I went through it with him directly personally, yes.
Q. Right, on this -- on -- let's see. The 16th of march, right?
Mr. Putnam: objection; misstates prior testimony.
Mr. Panish: I'm sorry. The 18th of March.
Mr. Putnam: objection; misstates prior testimony.
Mr. Panish: well --
The Judge: overruled.
Mr. Panish: "I will be back Tuesday --" this is Monday "-- and I'd like to meet with MJ at his
convenience on Wednesday."
Q. Is that what was written?
A. This is what Randy wrote in his e-mail.
Q. Okay. And did you go to the meeting and have the meeting on Wednesday?
A. I don't recall specifically the date of the meeting. I mean, according to this, it would be -- This e-
mail was on the 16th, and Randy is saying that it's important for us to go meet "today," but I'm not sure
if it was that day or not. He never --
Q. Well, he actually says "I'll be back Tuesday night, and would like to meet with MJ At his
convenience on Wednesday," right?
A. That's what he says at the end of this, yeah.
Q. And didn't you tell us yesterday that you had that meeting?

A. I did have that meeting. This Randy wasn't in that meeting. This --
Q. I understand.
A. Okay.
Q. But you told us yesterday that meeting was short in time after that, right?
A. Somewhere in there.
Q. Well, how long was it?
A. I don't recall the date of the meeting.
Q. No recollection was it a week? A. Month? A year? What do you think?
A. I don't recall the date of the meeting.
Q. Well, sir, it was on -- if we could see the next exhibit, 123-1, it was on that date of this e-mail, 123-
1. And this e-mail -- what's the date of this e-mail?
A. 3/23.
Q. So about a week later?
A. Yeah.
Q. And this is where you told your assistant to figure out how it should look so that Michael or he's
not working so much, right?
A. I didn't say it quite that way.

Q. "figure it out so it looks like he's not working so much." Did I read that right, sir?
A. You read part of it. That part is correct, yes.
Q. And that's what you instructed your secretary or assistant to do, figure it out so it looks like he --
and that's Mr. Jackson, right? -- he's not working so much, right?
A. Yes. I think I also said there that I don't want the shows to stand out so much when he looks at it.
Q. Exactly. Exactly.
A. Yeah, I didn't want him to think he was working more than he was.
Q. Right. Well, you didn't say you wanted him to be looking like he's working more than he is, you
said you wanted him to look like he's not working so much, didn't you, sir?
A. I think it's the same thing.
Q. Okay. All right. I'm almost done here. Sir, would you agree with me, as you said yesterday, your
goal was to have as many shows as possible?
A. I would have liked that.
Q. And the more shows there is, the more money AEG would have made, correct?
A. Hopefully, yeah.
Mr. Panish: that's all I have. Thank you, sir.
The Judge: anything further?
Mr. Putnam: if I may, your honor.

The Judge: okay. Re-cross.

Re-cross-examination By Mr. Putnam:
Q. Hi. I'm going to go over a couple of things we've gone over since we last spoke, see if I can clarify
a couple of things. First of all, in terms of the preparation that you did for your deposition, before your
deposition, did you have any idea which of the 13,000 e-mails they were going to show you in that
deposition?
A. No.
Q. Did someone indicate to you that they were going to look at these 20 e-mails, not these 12,000 --
I'm going to screw this up. 80? 12980? Did anybody say that to you?
A. No.
Q. So did you have any idea what you were supposed to look at in advance of having a deposition?
A. No.
Q. But you did prepare for that deposition by meeting with counsel, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And during your deposition, did you try to give your best testimony possible?
A. Yes.
Q. And we looked at the changes that were made to your deposition testimony. There were seven,
weren't there?
A. Six or seven, yes.
Q. And did you make those within the 30 days you had to make those changes?

A. Yes.
Q. Now, if someone had said to you, "go find the 20 e-mails that plaintiffs are going to think are the
most important of your 13,000," would you have had any idea how to do that?
A. I wouldn't know where to start.
Q. The next thing, sir. I'm just going to skip through all the points. There was -- you were asked a
moment ago about having seen Mr. Jackson, who seemed -- maybe he was a little off after seeing a
doctor. It wasn't clarified when you were just asked. I want to know was that after seeing Dr. Conrad
Murray?
A. No. It was after seeing Dr. Klein.
Q. And do you have any understanding as to whether they worked together?
A. I have no idea.
Q. But Dr. Klein was not Dr. Conrad Murray, correct?
A. They were different doctors.
Q. And you saw Mr. Jackson after seeing Dr. Klein, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Next, do you remember being asked before lunch whether you had sent a card to Mrs.
Katherine Jackson or to Mr. Jacksons children after Mr. Jackson passed?
A. Yeah, I remember.
Q. And did you send such a card?

A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. I -- I'm not good with cards. It's not something that I do.
Q. Have you ever sent a card to someone after the passing of a loved one?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. Did you do anything to commemorate Mr. Jacksons life and his passing?
A. Yes. I spent some time -- I spent a lot of time thinking about him; but what I did was worked on the
memorial, tried to pull the memorial together. I thought that was like the best way to honor him.
Q. And how soon after Mr. Jacksons passing was that memorial?
A. Maybe a couple of weeks.
Q. And did you work on it every day in that time period?
A. The first couple of days after -- after he passed away, I was involved in wrapping up the tour and
that sort of stuff. But right after that, yes, I started on it.
Q. And very briefly, sir, if you could tell us, what was the memorial like? Where was it, how many
people in attendance, just briefly?
A. It was at Staples Center, roughly 15,000 people in the arena; and then we had an overflow crowd in
Nokia theater that we ran video into, and that was another 5 or 6,000.
Q. And if there can be such a thing as a producer of a memorial, was there a producer here?
A. No one that worked on it took any credits.

Q. Did anyone other than AEG Live produce this event?

A. No. It was AEG Live.
Q. And did you work with anyone on that? For example, did you work with any of the Jacksons?
A. Yes.
Q. Who of the Jacksons did you work with on the memorial?
A. I remember Randy specifically.
Q. And in terms of the costs of the memorial, Do you have an understanding as to how much the
memorial cost?
A. It was over $1 million.
Q. And do you have an understanding as to who bore those costs?
A. AEG did, along with the estate.
Q. And the estate -- do you have any strike that. I'll move from there. And do I understand correctly
that this was your way of commemorating Mr. Jacksons life?
A. I felt so, yeah.
Q. Do you wish you'd sent a card instead?
A. I'm glad I did what I did. It was seen by millions of people around the world.
Q. And who were those people?
A. Just people who were interested in Michael.

Q. Now, going through, sir -- I'm going to go through a couple other points. Do you remember at the
beginning of Mr. Panish's questioning of you, he talked about the idea that there are all kinds of
changes between what you had testified previously and what you then testified when I asked you
questions? Do you remember those?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, first he showed you the seven changes you made to your deposition. Those are changes you
had made at the beginning of the year before there was any other testimony, correct?
A. Right.
Q. And then he went through the other changes. I'm going to go through some with you. He showed
you that there was a mistake; That instead of saying June 12th for your deposition, it should have said
December. Did you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was a mistake, wasn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you think that's a mistake that has any bearing on this case whatsoever?
A. I don't know. I don't think so.
Q. All right. Let me continue from there. The -- on to some of the others. There was a statement that --
he showed you a letter from someone in the Middle East who was interested in perhaps having a
concert tour in the middle east. Did you ever say you wouldn't want to continue after the 50 shows if
Mr. Jackson agreed to do so?
A. No. I would have wanted to continue.
Q. And what was your prior testimony on this? Did you testify previously as to the same?

A. I believe I did.
Q. Do you remember you changing your testimony in some way between when I asked you questions
and when Mr. Panish asked you questions on the topic?
A. No. Just -- I think I was testifying, you know, truthfully to all of it.
Q. Let's go with another one. There was questions that you were asked in terms of how much time had
lapsed between the first conversation you had with Dr. Conrad Murray, which I was calling the $5
million call, and the second call you had with Dr. Conrad Murray, which I called the $150,000 call. Do
you remember your being asked previously how long that period of time was?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Panish, moments ago, said showed you testimony where you had said a couple of weeks,
two to four weeks; then ultimately, he said, "as much as five, five weeks?"
Do you remember that?
A. Yeah, I remember that.
Q. And then he said to you that that that your saying a couple of weeks or anything less was
inconsistent with your police statement and inconsistent with your deposition testimony.
Do you remember that?
A. I think he said that, yeah.
Q. Did he show you those things?
A. No.
Mr. Putnam: okay. I'm going to show you those things. First, Your Honor, if I may, I would like to
show the police statement which was previously admitted as exhibit 506-1 to 2. I'm trying to see if
I have one that's not written on, Your Honor. Do you guys have copies, by chance?
Mr. Panish: do I?

Mr. Putnam: no. I'm trying to see if we have any --

Mr. Panish: well, I might have, if you give me a minute here.
506?
Mr. Putnam: uh-huh.
Mr. Putnam: it was already admitted into evidence. May I approach to give --
The Judge: yes.
Mr. Putnam: Mr. Gongaware, thank you.
A. do you need a copy? This is really hard to read on the screen.
The Judge: no. That's okay. I've been using the prompter.
Q. Mr. Gongaware, do you recognize this document?
A. This is -- this is the summary that the police wrote up about when they questioned me.
Q. All rightie. Now, first of all, a question for you, Mr. Gongaware. After the police wrote up this
summary, do you recall their ever giving you a copy for you to proof to see if it was correct?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember anyone giving you this to say, "hi. Could you check to make sure everything
we've written here is correct?"
A. No.
Q. That said, can we now go to the first, second, third, fourth, fifth paragraph, the one beginning "a
few weeks later."

A. Right.
Q. Do you see that? And I'm going to read it, if I may. "a few weeks later, Gongaware received a call
from Michael Williams asking Gongaware to close the deal with Dr. Murray. Gongaware could hear
Michael Jackson in the background saying, 'offer him 150,000 a month.' Gongaware heard Jackson
repeat the amount a couple of times."
Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you say five weeks here?
A. No.
Q. Did you say four weeks here?
A. No.
Q. Did you say a couple of weeks?
A. It says "a few weeks later."
Q. "a few weeks." I'm sorry. That was my mistake. A few weeks, correct?
A. Yes, but it's also -- Michael Williams didn't -- I don't think I testified to close the deal; And Michael
wasn't saying 150,000 a month, Michael was just saying, "offer him 150."
Q. All right. But right now in terms of the time, is your testimony here different than the testimony you
gave me -- in the police statement?
A. No.

Q. Similarly, I want to show you your deposition testimony, if I may. And I believe that is -- make sure
I get it right -- it's at 112. Do you have it there? 112, lines 5 to 12?
Ms. Stebbins: I think it's 15 through 21.
Q. so 112, 15 to 21. All right. So I'd like to show you your deposition testimony, page 112, lines 15
through 21. Do you see it right there?
A. Yes.
Q. It says "and then you testified earlier that you talked to Dr. Murray two times. When did the second
call happen? On the phone. I'm sorry. You testified earlier you talked to Dr. Murray two times on the
phone. When did the second call happen?" "a few weeks after the first call." That's your deposition
testimony, correct?
A. Right.
Q. Did you say four weeks?
A. No.
Q. Did you say five weeks?
A. No.
Q. So when he said to you that you changed your testimony, as you sit here today, do you feel like you
changed your testimony?
A. I don't think so.
Q. And then in terms of how you figured out when it occurred, were you asked if it happened before or
after the auditions at the Nokia Theater?
A. No.

Q. When you -- I'm saying you hadn't been asked that before; but then you were asked it here, whether
it was before or after the Nokia theater, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. But you've never been asked that before?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And when you were asked it here, whether it was before or after the Nokia Theater, what did
you say?
A. It was after the dancer auditions at the Nokia Theater.
Q. And was that different testimony than you'd given before?
A. No.
Q. Moving to the next thing, if I can, do you remember being asked this morning -- Mr. Panish asked
you several times about your negotiating a price term; And exactly, he said to you, "you've never said
before that you were tasked with determining what the price was going to be." And he said "before you
testified that you were only negotiating, not about price." Do you remember when he asked you that
this morning?
A. Yes.
Q. And then he showed you a piece of your deposition testimony where you talked about negotiating,
but not about price. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Mr. Putnam: I'd like to show you the rest of that testimony, if I can, which is in your deposition,
5192, lines 3 through 12.
Ms. Stebbins: at his deposition or trial?

Mr. Putnam: it's trial. Thank you.

Mr. Panish: it's trial. I asked about the deposition.
Mr. Putnam: you said there were no prior times he testified.
Mr. Panish: I said deposition.
The Judge: the jury will remember.
Mr. Putnam: "as a result of seeing that, do you Remember having any concerns that Mr. Jackson
was abusing drugs?" "no." We're on something else. I don't know what that is. Do I have the
wrong number? 512. Let me just check, if I can, one moment. I apologize. Yes. Okay.
The Judge: we're looking at trial testimony, right?
Mr. Putnam: trial testimony here, and he indicated that he hadn't previously testified as to price.
Mr. Panish: I'm going to object to counsel's recitation.
The Judge: he's just answering my question. You may continue.
Mr. Putnam: thank you, Your Honor.
Mr. Panish: I didn't say that.
Mr. Putnam: I'd like to show, if I may, trial testimony here, questions being asked by Mr. Panish, 5192,
lines 3 through 12. This is my fault. I gave her the wrong page before. I apologize. And for the sake of
the record, I'll note that this was last Tuesday, may 28th, 2013, in the afternoon, here in this court. All
right. I'll read it for you. And it's Mr. Panish asking. "and, sir, did you negotiate this contract of term
of the amount of money with Dr. Murray?" "No. The only thing I did with Dr. Murray is set the -- the
price that he would be paid. I didn't negotiate the contract." "Sir, did you negotiate a price for him?" "I
negotiated a price." "Is that a 'yes'?" "yes, sir."
Q. Is that your prior testimony in this very court, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. Have you changed this in some way so that only now you're saying that you were negotiating as to
price only?
A. No I've been saying that all along.
Q. All right. Go on to the next one. There were lots of jokes made about Lou ferrigno, the Incredible
Hulk, this morning. Do you remember those?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now, you were shown some testimony because you were asked -- it was stated that you
changed your testimony; and you changed it because, in fact, you knew when he had started and you
had claimed otherwise. Do you remember that testimony this Morning?
A. Yes.
Q. And I wanted to show you where that testimony continues, which might be 5910 -- I hope I got this
right -- 26, through 5991-25. Okay. This is -- you were shown everything up to this point earlier
today. Here's the continuation. "so it could have been after this?" "it could have been," talking about
Mr. Ferrigno. "Could have been before this?"
"yes." "you just don't know?" "right." "now, how did it come to be, if you know, That Mr. Ferrigno
started working with Mr. Jackson?" "Michael asked him." "did he ask for Mr. Ferrigno specifically?"
"yes." "did you have an understanding as to why Mr. Jackson asked for Mr. Ferrigno specifically?" "no,
I didn't know. But that's -- that's Who he wanted." "and when Mr. Jackson asked for Mr. Ferrigno
specifically, did you have any problem With the idea of -- of Mr. Ferrigno coming on board and
Helping Mr. Jackson?" "no. It was fine with me." "did that give you pause and worry?" "no." "did it
make you worried that perhaps Mr. Jackson wasn't in good physical health?" "no. I thought it was just
part of his preparation for the shows."
Was that the complete nature of your testimony earlier?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I'm going to go further, if I may. Mr. Panish then said to you a number of times, a number of
different ways, that there was no written contract. Do you remember all that -- all that
questioning where he said, "there was no written contract, was there?" Do you remember those
questions?
A. I remember, yes.

Q. And do you remember saying you didn't know?

A. Yeah, I didn't know.
Q. Okay. But you never said there wasn't one, correct, sir?
A. No.
Q. But Mr. Panish kept saying that, "there's no written contract, and you paid him anyway," correct?
Mr. Panish: that's not what I -- objection. That's not what I said. He's not aware of a contract --
Mr. Putnam: it is what you said.
Mr. Panish: no, it isn't. He's not aware of a contract. That's what I asked him.
Mr. Putnam: I can repeat precisely what he said, Your honor.
The Judge: I don't know if he said anything. I think he asked him the questions, but --
Mr. Putnam: okay.
A. your question again, please?
Q. Do you remember being asked that series of questions this morning, Sir?
A. yes.
Mr. Putnam: your honor, I would like to approach with a document. May I?
Judge: you may.
Mr. Putnam: any objections?
Mr. Panish: is Mr. Gongaware on this?
Mr. Putnam: no, he's not; but you asked him if he was aware of it.

Mr. Panish: right. Has he ever seen it before?

Mr. Putnam: about to find out.
Mr. Panish: I would object on the foundation.
Judge: overruled.
Q. What you're seeing here is a three-page document. The first page says agreement for services. Do
you see the beginning is the agreement for services, this agreement is made effective as of April 27,
2009, by and between AEG Live Productions LLC and Imperium Talent Agency, for services of Lou
Ferrigno. Do you see that, Sir?
A. yes.
Q. And if you go to the next page, you'll see a signature line on the bottom.
A. yes.
Q. And on the left hand side, there seems to be a signature for Imperium Talent Agency and a signature
with it.
A. right.
Q. On the right side, one for AEG live productions; is that correct?
A. yes.
Q. And who signed it on behalf of AEG live productions?
A. Julie Hollander.
Q. And on the next page, do you see another signature for the services of personnel, Lou Ferrigno?
A. yes.
Q. And who signed that?
A. Lou Ferrigno.
Q. Now, I have ... So I have a question for you, Sir. When you testified earlier that you believed there
was a contract with Lou Ferrigno, does this refresh your recollection as to whether there was, in fact,
such a contract?
A. yes.
Q. And does it refresh your recollection as to whether that contract was in writing?

A. yes.
Q. And does it refresh your recollection as to when the services began?
A. yes.
Q. And what date was that, Sir?
A. it was effective April 27th.
Q. Of what year, Sir?
A. 2009.
Q. Thank you, Sir. And April 27, 2009, is before any of these emails we've been looking at worrying
about
Mr. Jackson and his physical wellbeing, correct?
A. yes.
Q. All right. One more quick question on this one and Ill move on. Look at paragraph 9. Because you
were asked if you knew whether or not Mr. Ferrigno was an independent contractor. Do you see
paragraph 9, Sir?
A. yes.
Q. Does this say whether Mr. Ferrigno is an independent contractor?
A. yes.
Q. Thank you very much, Sir. Moving on to the next one. Now, the other supposed changes that you
made was ... Do you remember being asked about a draft contract with Dr. Conrad Murray and
supposedly you had changed your testimony from, Ive never received ...strike that. Supposedly you
had previously testified that you had never read Dr. Conrad Murray's draft contract, nor ever received
one. Now, Im going to ask you a question about that. Did you previously testify that you had never
seen Dr. Conrad Murray's contract?
A. yeah, I never saw it.
Q. So you did testify you've never seen it before, correct?
A. right.
Q. And have you changed your testimony on that?
A. no.
Q. Now, had you ever previously testified that you never received it?

A. I don't recall that.

Q. Ok, so ... So did anybody show you any testimony where you say, I never received that before?
A. no.
Q. And then you were shown an email exchange where ... That you were on and that included a copy
of a draft agreement, correct?
A. yes.
Q. And that was exhibit ... Do you still have it in front of you, Sir? Its 266, dash, 1 through 8.
A. Ive got it here, yes.
Q. Do you see that eight-page document that contains a number of email exchanges?
A. yes.
Q. And on the top of it, just a note, who is it sent to?
A. at this very beginning here, Dr. Murray.
Q. So it was sent to Dr. Conrad Murray and you're CCd on it with some other people, correct?
A. uh...
Q. And thereafter, there are a number ... Let me ask you a couple of things about this. And you've
never read this before, correct?
A. no.
Q. All right. But you were asked a couple of things to read out loud and see if you understood what
they meant, correct?
A. yes.
Q. Look at paragraph b on page 4, the one that begins Dr. Murray represents.
A. yes. You want me to read that?
Q. Well, let me ask you a question. At the end of that first line, it says Dr. Murray represents he is a
licensed cardiologist practicing in Las Vegas, Nevada and that he acts as the artist's general practitioner.
Does that comport with your understanding of who Dr. Conrad Murray was?
A. yeah, he was Michaels doctor.
Q. Ok, let me go a little bit further, Sir. If you go a couple more pages and we go to paragraph 9 on
page 7, this one is called artist consent. I'll read this for you, Sir it says the effect of this agreement

is conditioned upon the approval and consent of the artist. Without the artist's expressed and written
approval of the agreement, neither party to the agreement will have any rights or obligations to one
another arising from the agreement. Do you see that?
A. yes.
Q. Now, as you sit here today, do you have an understanding of what that means?
A. it means Michael had to sign it. Until he did, this wasn't done.
Q. Now let's go to the last page, if we can. Do you see any signature of Mr. Jackson here?
A. no. I see a place for it.
Q. Ok, I want to ask you a little bit about that place for it. A. number of times today you were asked the
following. You were asked, isn't it true that you've never seen a written document that indicates that it
was ... That Dr. Murray was to be paid by Michael Jackson and not AEG. Another way that it was
asked was, you've never seen any document at all, have you, that ... That it's Michael Jackson, not
AEG, that's paying the doctor, right and the third way it was asked was, do you have anything in
writing that says to Dr. Conrad Murray that it's Michael Jackson paying him, not AEG. Do you
remember being asked that three times?
A. I remember being asked that, yes.
Q. Ok and do you remember your response was, I don't know?
A. right.
Q. Let me have you read something, Sir... If I may. Let's read the part that says the undersigned. It says,
the undersigned hereby confirms that he has requested producer to engage Dr. Murray on the terms set
forth herein on behalf of and at the expense of the undersigned, Michael Jackson. Do you see that?
A. yes.
Q. Have you now seen something in writing that indicates that it would be Michael Jackson who needs
to pay Dr. Conrad Murray and not AEG live?
A. yes.
Mr. Putnam: I have no other questions, your honor.
Break
Further redirect examination by Mr. Panish

Q. Mr. Gongaware, this contract that you first saw right now, the Louis Ferrigno...
A. yes.
Q. Do you know when it was signed by Ms. Hollander from AEG?
A. no.
Q. It doesn't say, it doesn't have a date?
A. it doesn't.
Q. And you know Ms. Hollander was signing contracts after Michael Jackson died, correct?
A. I don't know that.
Q. You didn't send contracts to her to sign after Michael Jackson died. You don't remember that?
A. I don't ... I don't think I sent her any.
Q. Well, she already testified, so ... And the fax date ... The date on the top of that is not legible. That
should be on the original, when it was sent back by Lou Ferrigno, right?
A. there's no date on ... It's not legible, you're right.
Q. There's no date and the fact that Lou Ferrigno ... In the contract, he was retained by AEG, wasn't he,
Sir?
A. yes.
Q. It says AEG hereby engages, right?
A. yes.
Q. It doesn't say Michael Jackson, right?
A. no.
Q. So AEG retained Mr. Ferrigno, right?
A. yes.
Q. And the fact that Dr. Murray didn't sign this contract means he couldn't get paid, right?
A. it means he didn't have a deal.

Q. It doesn't mean he wasn't working for AEG, does it, Sir?

AEG objection: asked and answered; overruled.
A. he wasn't working for AEG
Q. That's your ... That's your testimony, Sir... Right?
A. it is.
Q. Ok and you never gave Michael Jackson a copy of any agreement with Dr. Murray, did you, Sir?
AEG objection: asked and answered. Judge: repeat the question.
Q. You never provided Mr. Jackson with any copy of any contract to sign, did you, Sir?
Judge: overruled.
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
A. I didn't, no.
Q. And you don't know of anyone from AEG that ever did, for him to sign, right?
A. no.
Q. You don't know, right. Ok and, Sir... As far as your deposition and the emails, you relied on your
lawyers to pick out the important documents that you should be prepared on, right?
AEG objection: your honor, asks for work product; overruled.

Q. He just questioned all about what you did with your lawyers. Sir... You relied on your lawyers from
this large law firm to pick out the important documents that you should know, right?
A. well, I didn't know what documents to expect at all during the ... During the deposition. Is that what
you're referring to?
Q. Yes. That's why you have lawyers. You expected your lawyers to pull out what you're going to be
questioned on. They should know, don't you think, Sir?
AEG objection: asks for speculation; overruled.
A. yeah, I don't know what.
Q. You don't expect to know the contract from Dr. Murray, you telling him what should be expected of
him, AEG paying him ... You didn't expect your lawyers to show you those documents before your
deposition?
A. no. I expected they would be acting in my best interest.
Q. Ok and they never showed you a single document before your deposition, these lawyers all
throughout this room, did they Sir?
AEG objection: your honor, argumentative as to all throughout this room.
Mr. Panish: well, let's see. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
Judge: counsel, there's no evidence as to who is a lawyer in the audience.
Mr. Putnam: I was going to say the same, your honor. That absolutely lacks foundation.
Mr. Panish: that whole front row, except for the judge and Mr. Trell, are all lawyers. Ms. Cahan,
Middleton, Tad...
Judge: sustained.
Mr. Putnam: objection, your honor; sustained.

Q. Panish: Sir... You expected your lawyers to show you documents that were important for you to
know about when you testified under oath, correct?
A. in the deposition?
Q. Yes, Sir.
A. I expected them to act in my best interest.
Q. And would it be in your best interest, Sir... As far as you're concerned, to be able to testify truthfully
and factually in your deposition?
A. I did testify truthfully and factually in my deposition, but this is all ... All this legal stuff is just ... I
don't understand it. I relied on my attorneys.
Q. Well, you've given depositions before, Sir?
A. yes.
Q. You rely on your attorneys to prepare you appropriately, right?
A. yes. If they felt that was appropriate, then I was fine with it.
Q. And do you know how many times you said you don't remember in your deposition?
A. no.
Q. Would you agree with me it was quite a few?
A. there was a lot I didn't remember after looking at it for ... You know, having not looked at it for three
and a half years.
Q. And now you expect everyone to believe you after you didn't remember everything in your
deposition; is that right, Sir?
AEG objection: your honor, argumentative; sustained.
Mr. Panish: I have no further questions.
Judge: ok, thank you, Sir. You may step down.
Mr. Putnam: your honor, subject to recall.
Judge: ok, subject to recall. The attorneys may call you back. For now, you're excused.

Break