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2012 First day testimony of Brandon "Randy" Phillips
New witness, direct by Brian Panish of Brandon Randy Phillips AEG live CEO
Mr. Panish: your honor, let the record reflect this witness is being called pursuant to
evidence code 776 as an adverse witness.
Judge: the record will so reflect.
Q. Good afternoon, Sir.
A. good afternoon.
Q. You've testified in court before, right?
A. yes, I have.
Q. And did you have a chance to meet with the attorneys to prepare for your testimony?
A. yes, I did.
Q. And how much time did you spend doing that, Sir?

A. how many times, or how much ... How many hours?

Q. Well, let's start with how many times.
A. probably six to eight times.
Q. Six to eight times over what period of time the last week?
A. the last two weeks.
Q. Six to eight times. And how many hours each time?
A. two to four hours.
Q. So 12 to 30 hours what's your best estimate of how many hours you spent preparing to
testify here under oath?
A. probably 30.
Q. 30 hours?
A. uh-huh.
Q. And then did you prepare when you didn't have attorneys present?
A. what do you mean, talking about it at home and stuff when I wasn't with them?
Q. Well, did the attorneys come over to your home to prepare you?
A. no, no.
Q. So did you go to the attorneys' office where did you go to get prepared?
A. to the attorneys' office.
Q. Anywhere else?
A. no.
Q. Ok, so 30 hours at the attorneys' office in the last two weeks, right?
A. correct.
Q. How many separate attorneys did you meet with?
A. there were different people at different times. Usually just two attorneys at a time.

Q. How many different attorneys did you meet with, Sir?

A. six.
Q. Six. Mr. Putnam?
A. Mr. Putnam, of course.
Q. Ms. Robinson?
A. correct.
Q. Ms. Cahan?
A. no.
Q. You don't know her?
A. no.
Q. Mr. Tad...
A. Allen.
Q. Tad Allen. You knew him before this case, didn't you?
A. no.
Q. Ok, who else?
A. Sabrina Strong, Jessica Stebbins.
Q. Ok, anyone else?
A. not that I...
Q. All right. And did you review documents to prepare and refresh your recollection, Sir?
A. yes.
Q. How many documents did you review?
A. well, I didn't ... I didn't count them. But Mr. Panish and I went through a bunch of old emails
from the period and a couple of articles.

Q. Well, we've never met, have we, Sir?

A. no.
Q. And ... Ok, so how many ... You can't tell me was it 50 emails 100 emails 1,000
emails what's your best estimate?
A. oh, best estimate, probably 30 or 40 emails.
Q. And how many articles?
A. Two or three.
Q. Ok, did you review anything else?
A. no.
Q. Did you review your deposition?
A. yes.
Q. So is that something else?
A. yes.
Q. You went to law school, didn't you, Sir?
A. I attended law school. I didn't graduate.
Q. Pardon me?
A. I didn't graduate. I attended law school.
Q. But you did attend law school for two years, right?
A. correct.
Q. You attended college, too, right?
A. yes.
Q. And then, Sir... Your deposition. How many times did you read your deposition in the last
two weeks?
A. once.

Q. When you gave your deposition, was Mr. Putnam representing you?
A. yes, he was.
Q. How much time did you spend preparing for your deposition?
A. none, no time.
Q. Ok, did you rely on your attorneys to prepare you for your deposition?
A. no, because I didn't ... I didn't prepare for it.
Q. So you just figured it wasn't necessary to prepare?
A. no.
Q. You were too...
A. I just felt ... I didn't feel. They felt that it would be better if I went in without doing any
preparation with them.
Q. So your lawyers advised you to go into the deposition with no preparation; is that correct?
AEG objection: your honor, asks for attorney/client privilege; sustained
Q. So you did absolutely no preparation for your deposition, right?
A. no.
Q. Is that correct?
A. that's correct.
Q. And you knew that that deposition that you gave was the same as the testimony you're giving
here today under oath, didn't you, Sir?
A. no.
Q. You weren't ever ... You've never been told that a deposition is the same as giving testimony in
a court of law?
A. that's not the question you asked. You asked if ... If what I was asked in deposition is exactly
what you were going to ask me in court.
Q. No, I didn't ask that question. Could you please read back my question? And Mr. Phillips, I
want to tell you, Sir... If you don't understand a question, please don't answer it. Ok

A. ok
Q. And if you want me to repeat it, please tell me. Do you understand that?
A. I will do that. Thank you.
Q. Do you understand you can do that?
A. uh-huh.
Q. Yes?
A. yes.
Mr. Panish: could you please read back the question that I asked Mr. Phillips?
*question read back*
And you knew that that deposition that you gave was the same as the testimony you're
giving here today under oath, didn't you, Sir?
Q. Please answer that question.
A. in that ... In that case, a yes no answer, yes.
Q. And, Sir... You knew and the jury will be instructed, that the testimony in a deposition is the
same and to be considered the same as it's ... As if it were given on the witness stand in the trial,
A. correct, I was under oath, yes.
Q. No, it's the same. It's no different. You understood that, didn't you, Sir?
A. I understood that I was under oath. That's all I understood.
Q. You weren't told at the beginning of your deposition that the testimony in your deposition is
the same as if it were given to court, the same weight?
A. no.
Q. Ok and so then, Sir... You read that deposition and then you again signed it under penalty of
perjury, right?
A. that is correct.

Q. And you know what perjury means, right, Sir?

A. absolutely.
Q. Now, Sir... You're currently the CEO of AEG live?
A. that is correct.
Q. And you're the head man in the company, right?
A. at AEG live, yes.
Q. Right and the buck stops with you?
A. generally.
AEG objection: vague and ambiguous as to buck stops with you; overruled.
A. ok, it's not a yes or no answer because there are other executives in my company who have
responsibility for certain projects.
Q. Who is higher up in the company than you, Sir?
A. than ... In AEG live?
Q. Yes, Sir.
A. no one. Just me.
Q. You are the top dog, so to speak?
A. yes.
Q. Correct everybody is responsible, ultimately, to you as the chief executive officer; isn't that
A. ultimately, yes.
Q. And who do you report to, Sir?
A. and I report to an executive committee at AEG that consists of Dan Beckerman, Jay
Ted Fikre, Phil Anschutz. Thats who I report to.
Q. Ok, so at the time of this incident, at the time of Mr. Jackson's death, you were reporting,
among others, directly to Tim Leiweke, correct?

A. that's correct.
Q. And did Mr. Leiweke left the company?
A. yes, he did.
Q. Was his employment terminated?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know why your direct report left the company?
A. no.
Q. You never asked him?
A. I thought it was something that it was between him and the company, so...
Q. You've been reporting to Mr. Leiweke for over 10 years; is that right, Sir?
A. almost 12.
Q. 12. Were you friendly with Mr. Leiweke?
A. loved him.
Q. And when Mr. Leiweke left the company after you and him working together 12 years, you
never once asked him why he left the company; is that correct?
AEG objection: relevance, your honor; overruled.
A. no.
Q. That's correct?
A. that's correct.
Q. And one of the people you report directly to is Philip Anschutz; is that right, Sir?
A. not ... Not directly. He's part of a committee now and when Tim was at the company, no, I
reported to Tim
Q. Sir... Did you testify under oath in your ... This case that Mr. Anschutz was one of your direct
A. now now that Mr. Leiweke is no longer at the company.

Q. Do you report directly to Mr. Anschutz?

A. I report to an executive committee of which Mr. Anschutz is part.
Q. Ok and Mr. Anschutz, does he come to Los Angeles?
A. occasionally.
Q. When is the last time you saw him?
A. eight weeks ago.
Q. Do you go to the L.A. Kings games with him?
A. do I go with him to the L.A. Kings games?
Q. Are you there sitting in his box?
A. no.
Q. Mr. Anschutz, have you discussed this lawsuit with him?
A. no.
Q. Never once since it's occurred?
A. never once.
Q. Ok and Sir... Is it your belief that this case is a baseless extortion and shakedown of AEG
A. yes or no answer? Yes.
Q. And you think that Mrs. Jackson and Mr. Michael Jackson's children are trying to shake
down and extort AEG, right?
A. yes.
Q. And you think that Mrs. Jackson tried to extort AEG before; isn't that true, Sir?
A. Im not sure what you're referring to.
Q. Have you ever stated under oath that Mrs. Jackson tried to extort money from AEG?
A. not that I remember.

Q. Have you ever stated under oath that ... That Mrs. Jackson aided and abetted Joe Jackson to
extort money from AEG?
A. are you talking about the all good...
Q. Sir... My question is ... Do you know what it means to say something under oath?
A. yes, Mr. Panish, I do.
Q. Ok, do you know what it means to sign something under the penalty of perjury?
A. yes, I do, Mr. Panish.
Q. Do you sign things under the penalty of perjury without reading them?
A. no.
Q. Did you ever sign under the penalty of perjury that Mrs. Jackson is trying to extort AEG live?
A. it's possible. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember what you signed under penalty of perjury in this case, Sir?
A. I don't remember what document you're referring to.
Q. Well, Sir...
A. can you show it to me?
Q. Do you read things that you signed under the penalty of perjury?
A. of course. Do you know how many documents I sign a year, every year? So...
Q. Tell me, how many documents have you signed under the penalty of perjury in this case, Sir?
A. in this case, the deposition and that's probably the only document that I know of.
Q. Ok, so my question is, have you signed under the penalty of perjury any document saying
what I just said to you?
A. I don't remember saying that, so I can't answer.
Q. The answer is no, you don't recall; is that right?
A. correct.

Q. And Mr. Anschutz has never been concerned or talked to you at all about this lawsuit, right?
A. never.
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
Q. And he's authorized you to take all the steps that you've taken on behalf of AEG live in this
case, correct?
AEG: same objection; overruled.
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Ok, do you know what it means to authorize someone to do something, Sir?
A. yes.
Q. Ok, what does it mean to you?
A. it gives you ... It's giving someone the ability to perform a job, to make decisions for the
Q. Ok and you've been making ... Performing the job and making decisions on behalf of the
company relating to this lawsuit, haven't you, Sir?
A. relating to the lawsuit?
Q. Yes.
A. no, Ive just been preparing my testimony.
Q. Well, Sir... Is it ... You want to have your day in court, it was your decision to come here to
court and to accuse Mrs. Jackson of a baseless shakedown, right, Sir?
AEG objection: your honor; lacks foundation. Judge: argumentative. You need to rephrase
Q. Sir... You believe this is a baseless shakedown and you want to come here and tell your side of
the story, right?
A. I believe you called me as a witness, so Im here.
Q. Do you want to tell your side of the story to let everyone know this is a baseless shakedown,

A. I would ... Wish you wouldn't keep calling it a baseless shakedown because it's derogatory. I
know that's ... What I testified to...
Q. That's what your lawyer has been referring to it as, hasn't he, Sir... To your knowledge, a
baseless shakedown of AEG live?
AEG objection: your honor, it's argumentative and irrelevant; sustained.
Q. Sir... To your knowledge, have you been notified that your lawyer, Mr. Putnam, has been out
saying that this case is a baseless shakedown of AEG live, yes or no?
Mr. Putnam: may we have a sidebar, your honor? Judge: yes, let's have a sidebar.
Judge: you may continue.
Q. Mr. Phillips, you believe this ... You believe this case is an extortion, right?
A. yes.
Q. And you believe that AEG has absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for anything that
happened, correct?
A. correct.
Q. And you stated and you told Mr. Ortega when he was complaining about Mr. Jackson that
you checked everyone out, especially Dr. Murray, because AEG does, right?
A. because at the time, that's what I thought.
Q. No, no, Sir. Isn't it true that when Mr. Ortega was complaining about Mr. Jackson and his
health that you told Mr. Ortega that AEG checks everyone out, including Dr. Murray. Yes or no,
A. it's not a yes-or-no question. First of all, in your question, Kenny Ortega was not complaining
about Michael Jackson at all. He wasn't complaining. He was...
Q. Sir... When Mr. ... Was concerned about Michael Jackson.
Mr. Putnam: can he finish ... Judge: well ... Are you finished? Brandon Randy Phillips: yes.
Judge: ok
Q. Sir... Did you ever tell anyone that AEG checks everyone out?

A. I wrote in an email to Mr. Ortega that on the doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, I thought he had been
checked out ... That he had been checked out, because I thought at the time he had been and I
still think he had been, to an extent. But go ahead.
Q. Sir... You wrote to Mr. Ortega that Dr. Murray was a successful doctor, did you not?
A. because that's what I was told.
Q. And you also wrote to Mr. Ortega that AEG checks everyone out, didn't you, Sir?
A. yes, I did.
Q. And that wasn't true, was it, Sir?
A. in retrospect, he ... Not 100 percent, no.
Q. Have you heard ... Is there such a thing as partial truth in your world, Sir?
A. no there's what ... There's what I thought at the time versus what I learned afterwards.
Q. Ok, Sir... Have you ever heard of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
A. yes, Sir.
Q. Did you just take that oath, Sir?
A. yes, I did.
Q. Now, Sir... AEG live is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Anschutz entertainment group,
A. that is my understanding.
Q. Is it unreasonable to expect the CEO to know whether or not his company is a subsidiary of
A. Mr. Panish that might be the way it was set up. I'm assuming that's what it is. I'm not 100
percent sure how the company is characterized for tax reasons.
Q. Well, Sir... As the CEO, you're responsible for the profit and loss of AEG live, aren't you?
A. that's correct.
Q. And, Sir... Isn't it true that AEG live does not lose money on anything. We're a business, we're
all about making money. Didn't you say that, Sir?

A. amongst other things. You're taking things out of context. Yes, that's probably a statement I
did make in some interview.
Q. Well, let's re-read the question and I ask you to answer my question. ...
A. ok
Q. Whether or not you've ever made that statement, Sir. Ok
A. yes.
Mr. Panish: so let's hear it again, please.
*question is read back*
Q. And, Sir... Isn't it true that AEG live does not lose money on anything.
A. we're a business, we're all about making money?
A. yes.
Q. By Mr. Panish: and you said that to Forbes magazine, didn't you, Sir?
A. probably.
Q. Wasn't that one of the articles you reviewed to prepare for your testimony?
A. no, it wasn't.
Q. Ok and Sir... When you said that, you were discussing the LiveNation/Ticketmaster deal,
weren't you, Sir?
A. in that article, correct.
AEG objection: lacks foundation.
A. that is correct.
Judge: overruled, he said he knew.
Q. And you were critical of LiveNation for spending ridiculous amounts of money to do deals
with certain artists, correct?
A. because they ... It caused the ticket price to go up. Yes. The answer is yes.
Q. Ok, Mr. Phillips, if you don't understand the question, you don't have to answer it. Ok

A. ok,
Q. Could you try to please answer my questions?
A. yes.
Q. Ok and if you don't understand, it's ok, I can ask it again.
A. I got it. I understand.
Q. I won't be offended. I don't always ask the best questions. Ok
A. you got it.
Q. All right. So let's start here. In 2009, you were worried about massive unemployment biting
into the June and July ticket sales for the Michael Jackson this is it tour, correct?
A. Id have to look at the article. I don't think I was referring to the Michael Jackson tour.
Q. So you don't remember saying that in the article, Sir?
A. Id have to read the article, Mr. Panish.
Q. My question again, Mr. Phillips was, you don't recall making that statement in the article?
A. I don't remember the article, Mr. Panish. Did you purposely make the copy so light I could
barely read it?
Mr. Panish: you know, I could tell you that I honestly didn't. But this one might be better, so let
me use this one. Your picture looks good, though.
Brandon Randy Phillips: that's the nicest thing you've said to me today.
Mr. Panish: just give me a chance, Mr. Phillips.
AEG objection: your honor, we have an objection to this. It doesn't appear to be on their
exhibit list.
Mr. Panish: it doesn't have to be on the exhibit list to refresh his recollection, does it?
AEG: as long as it's just being used to refresh.
Judge: ok
Mr. Panish: well...
Brandon Randy Phillips: ok

Mr. Panish: ok
Q. Does that refresh your recollection where you discussed about the massive unemployment?
A. give me a second to read it.
Q. Take your time.
A. yes, I see it.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection?
A. yes, it does.
Q. Now, Sir... LiveNation, in your business...
A. ok, is there ... Is there a part that said the Michael Jackson tour in here. Because I didn't read
Q. I didnt...
A. Im just curious.
Q. Unfortunately, Mr. Phillips, I get to ask the questions.
A. oh, I know.
Q. If you want me to go up there, Id be happy for you to question me; but I don't think they're
going to allow that. So Im happy to answer any questions you want to ask me outside of court;
but right here, Im not allowed to do that. Ok
A. ok
Q. If you want to, outside, Im happy to answer everything you want to ask me.
A. I understand.
Q. Now, Mr. Phillips, Sir... LiveNation, in your business, is number 1, right?
A. LiveNation is the largest concert promoter in the world, yes.
Q. Is that a yes?
A. that's a yes.

Q. And ... And you're number 2, right?

A. correct.
Q. And have you ever referred to LiveNation as an 800-pound gorilla?
A. multiple times.
Q. And are you happy with being number 2, are you ok with that?
A. love it.
Q. Love it. And you don't want to be number 1, right?
A. Id rather be a more successful number 2. I'd rather be hertz ... Avis to their hertz.
Q. So you don't want to be number 1, correct?
A. not if it means I lose money, no.
Q. You don't want to be number 1, you want to stay number 2. You're ok, with that, right?
A. Im fine with that.
Q. And have you told Mr. Anschutz that you don't want to be number 1?
A. he never asked me; but if he did, I would.
Q. Have you ever told Mr. Anschutz that you're happy being number 2?
A. actually, he told me that.
Q. So Mr. Philip Anschutz told you that he's happy being number 2?
A. yes, he's not in the market share game. It's about profit.
Q. So the answer is yes, right?
A. yes.
Q. Ok, now, Sir... You have known Mr. Jackson, or Michael Jackson, since the mid '90's when
you were working in some negotiations with la gear; is that correct?
A. yes, on Michael Jackson's behalf.
Q. La gear was a shoe company. I don't know if they're still in business. Are they?

A. no, no.
Q. They went out of business?
A. they did go out of business.
Q. Ok, you didn't have anything to do with that, though, right?
A. no.
Q. Ok and you described Michael Jackson as the greatest star in contemporary music, correct?
A. that is correct.
Q. And you've described him as a genius and that there's no other entertainment like him in the
world today, correct?
A. correct.
Q. And you knew that it would be a monumental achievement for AEG live to get Michael
Jackson, correct?
A. correct.
Q. And you knew that it wasn't going to be easy to get Michael Jackson because he hadn't done
any touring in approximately 12 years, correct?
A. correct.
Q. And you've wanted Michael Jackson ever since AEG opened the o2 arena in London in
A. that is correct.
Q. And the concept with the o2 is have the mountain come to Mohammed, right?
A. yes.
Q. I think that's how you described it.
A. yes that was our strategy.
Q. So in other words, Mr. Jackson. Mohammed, would come to o2, and the world would come
to him and hed not have to travel, right?

A. right and the world would come to see him, to London.

Q. Right?
A. correct.
Q. That was always your strategy to get Michael Jackson, right?
A. that is correct.
Q. And it takes a special artist like Michael Jackson for that to happen, right?
A. correct.
Q. But the problem that you encountered was people that were working with Mr. Jackson, like
Raymone Bain, wouldn't take meetings with you?
A. no, quite the contrary, Raymone, through Peter Lopez, actually called john Meglen to have a
Q. Well, Michael Jackson didn't want to go on tour, did he, Sir?
A. I never dealt directly with Michael Jackson at that time. I dealt with Peter Lopez and
Raymone Bain. And ultimately, he decided not to go on tour; that is correct.
Q. Ok, but Raymone Bain set up a meeting in '07, right?
A. correct.
Q. But Michael Jackson was not ready at that time to do any touring, correct?
A. well, why would she have set up the meeting, then?
Q. Sir... Could you please answer my question?
A. if I understood it, I would.
Q. I don't want to get ... I'm not supposed to argue with you, so please don't argue with me,
because then Ill argue with you and Ill get in trouble. Ok
A. that's an incentive for me, but go ahead.
Q. I mean, I like it, too but Im going ... I don't want to get in trouble.
A. you're a pugilist, I can tell.

Q. I've tried for a long part of this time now not to argue; so please, I just ask you on my behalf
don't do that because Ill start doing it. Ok
A. you've got it. We have a deal.
Q. Didn't Michael Jackson say, in 2007, he wasn't ready to go on tour?
A. Michael Jackson never said that to me. Raymone Bain and Peter Lopez said that to me.
Q. And then in June 2008, Tom Barrack ... Who was the CEO of Colony Capital, correct?
A. correct.
Q. And you know Mr. Barrack, correct?
A. well, I met him through this. I didn't know him...
Q. My question was do you know Mr. Barrack?
A. I do now, yes.
Q. If it's not clear, let me know.
A. no. I'm trying to make it ... I understand.
Q. And Mr. Barrack is a very good friend with Mr. Anschutz, isn't he?
A. yeah, I believe they had done deals together before.
Q. Right. And Mr. Anschutz and Mr. Barrack talked on the cell phone when Mr. Anschutz was in
Africa, correct?
AEG objection: lacks foundation, calls for hearsay; sustained.
Q. Are you aware whether or not Mr. Barrack and Mr. Anschutz had a telephone conversation
while Mr. Anschutz was in Africa?
AEG: same objection; overruled, if he knows.
Brandon Randy Phillips: well, I ... I think Mr. Barrack was in Africa. I don't think Mr. Anschutz
was in Africa.
Q. Ok, flip it around. Mr. Barrack was in Africa. Did he call Mr. Barrack from Africa to talk to
AEG: same objection.

Brandon Randy Phillips: you're getting it confused again. Mr. Anschutz was in Denver and Mr.
Barrack was in Africa.
Mr. Panish: I said that. Mr. Barrack is in Africa.
Brandon Randy Phillips: right.
Mr. Panish: Mr. Denver ... Mr. Anschutz is here, United States.
Brandon Randy Phillips: Tom Barrack called Phil Anschutz, Im not sure where he was. Ok
Q. Because they had a personal relationship?
AEG objection: lacks foundation. Judge: if he knows; overruled.
Brandon Randy Phillips: they had a business relationship. I don't know what it was beyond that.
Q. And that was in late ... Late august of 2008; is that right?
A. that's correct.
Q. And did you learn that Colony Capital had purchased the note on the Neverland Ranch?
A. I did.
Q. And did you know that Mr. Barrack was one of the principals of Colony Capital?
A. yes.
Q. And that Mr. Anschutz then called you and told you to meet with Mr. Barrack, right?
A. that is correct.
Q. Do I have that right now?
A. you've got it.
Q. And then you went to the Colony Capital offices in century city, correct?
A. correct.
Q. Was Mr. Jackson at that meeting?
A. no.
Q. Was anyone representing Mr. Jackson at that meeting?

A. no.
Q. Was that meeting in June of 2008?
A. I think it was ... I think it was later than that. I think it was in august of 2008. That's my
Q. Ok, let me see if I can refresh your recollection, Sir. I'll show you and exhibit
A. correct. Ok, so it had to be June.
Q. Have you seen that before, Sir?
A. yes.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection that the meeting was in June of 2008 and not august?
A. I believe so.
Q. Ok
A. I believe so.
Q. Ok, let's look at this email who wrote this email, Sir?
A. I wrote this email.
Q. You're Randy Phillips, right?
A. yes, I am.
Q. And who are you writing this email to?
A. to Richard Nanula, who I believe is a partner in Colony Capital.
Q. Ok and who else were you copying on this?
A. a guy named p. Fuhrman, who Im not sure who that is; Tim Leiweke; Paul Gongaware; John
Meglen and rob hallett.
Q. Ok, we know everyone but hallett. Whats his position?
A. rob hallett is the head of AEG live London.
Q. Ok and what was the subject of this email, Sir?

A. it was a summation of the proposal we had made to Raymone Bain and Peter Lopez and I
extracted it to the time period going forward, but this was basically a strategic plan that I had
prepared for Michael Jackson.
Q. Ok, but there is a meeting where you're laying out your plan and nobody was there
representing Mr. Jackson, correct?
A. not at this time point, no.
Q. Is that correct, Sir?
A. correct.
Q. And this is where you said that Michael Jackson was not fast and a total perfectionist, right?
A. correct.
Q. And you wanted to make sure that you had as much control as possible in dealing with Mr.
Jackson, correct?
A. in terms of his spending, yes.
Mr. Panish: could I ask that the question be please reread?
*question is read back*
Brandon Randy Phillips: and, again, that's ... That's what I wrote and I was ... I was referring to
his spending.
Mr. Panish: ok
Q. But you didn't write that in that line, did you, Sir?
A. no; but if you read the entire thing, you'll get the point.
Q. Well ... Well, let's read this, Sir. Why don't you read the sentence ... You wrote this whole
email, didn't you, Sir?
A. yes, I did.
Q. And you don't write things in emails that aren't true, do you, Sir?
A. of course not.
Q. That would be wrong, to write something that's not true in an email, wouldn't it, Sir?

A. if at the time I thought it was true...

Q. Ok, why don't you read us what you wrote there, Sir.
A. Richard, these are just my off-the-cuff ideas subject to modification and addition as we
prepare an omnibus two-year MJ BR and roll-out and expansive marketing plan and budget.
While aspects of this proposed scenario can be executed earlier than these timelines, I caution
you that MJ is not fast and a total perfectionist, needs to be controlled as much as possible.
Q. All right. Stop right there. Did you write that he needs to be controlled as much as possible?
A. yes.
Q. And Colony Capital now, they're holding the note to Mr. Jackson's home, correct?
A. I ... I have no idea what the relationship was. I knew they bought out a note from fortress
Capital on Neverland and saved it from foreclosure. That's all I know.
Q. Neverland Ranch was Mr. Jackson's beloved home, was it not, Sir?
A. hard to answer because of things Michael Jackson said to me about Neverland, so...
Q. Did Michael Jackson live at any time at the Neverland Ranch?
A. not when I met him.
Q. So he never lived at the Neverland Ranch?
A. oh, no he did; but not when I...
Q. That wasn't my question, Sir.
A. oh. Yes, of course he did.
Q. My question was ... Well, could you ... Is there a problem with my questions?
Judge: you're talking over each other. Each of you need to wait until the other is finished.
Mr. Panish: Sir... I'll ask it again.
Q. Did Michael Jackson ever live at the Neverland Ranch?
A. yes, Mr. Panish, he did.
Mr. Panish: I think everyone knows who I am, so you don't need to keep saying my name. It's

Q. Colony capital held the note on Neverland Ranch, correct?

A. correct.
Q. And you were meeting with them to discuss Mr. Jackson touring and your ideas about that,
A. correct, in response to their requests.
Q. In response to Mr. Barracks discussions with Mr. Anschutz?
A. correct.
Q. And you wrote to Mr. Nanula that Mr. Jackson needs to be controlled as much as possible,
A. correct.
Q. Was that funny, Sir...
A. no.
Q. You laughed?
A. no.
Q. Do you think any of this is funny, Sir?
A. no. I think it's tragic. But go ahead.
Judge: there's only a couple of minutes.
Mr. Panish: all right.
Q. And, Sir... Was it your understanding as part of the Colony Capital/Neverland deal that Mr.
Barrack wanted Mr. Jackson to generate revenue?
A. when I met with...
Q. It's a simple question.
A. yes, yes.
Q. Ok and Mr. Barrack instructed you to contact Dr. Tohme Tohme, correct?

A. actually, Mr. Nanula did.

Q. Ok, had you ever heard of Dr. Tohme Tohme before?
A. no.
Q. You were ... Would you say that you were familiar with the music industry at that time?
A. familiar with the music industry?
Q. Yes.
A. I was working in it.
Q. Does that mean you had familiarity with it, Sir?
A. yes, Mr. ... Yes. Yes, Sir.
Q. You don't have to say that, either. Just ... If you could just say yes or no, that would be great.
A. ok
Q. All right?
A. yes.
Q. Ok, but you'd never heard of this gentleman, Dr. Tohme, right?
A. no.
Q. And did Mr. Barrack tell you that Dr. Tohme Tohme was a consultant with Colony Capital
and had been working with them for years?
A. yes.
Q. So it was your understanding that this Dr. Tohme Tohme had a close working relationship
with Colony Capital at this time, correct?
A. yes.
Q. And did you know whether or not this Mr. Tohme Tohme was ever working with Michael
A. according to Richard Nanula, he was representing Michael Jackson because Jermaine Jackson
had gone to Dr. Tohme to save Neverland Ranch.

Q. Sir... All I asked you was, did you have an understanding of whether Mr. Tohme, or Tohme
Tohme, was working with Michael Jackson. Thats all I asked you.
A. yes.
Q. And what would the answer to that be?
A. yes.
Q. So based on your understanding, you went to a meeting with Colony Capital. Colony capital
held the note on the Neverland Ranch, correct?
A. correct.
Q. They told you to contact Tohme tome, correct?
A. correct.
Q. Tohme Tohme was a longtime business associate and consultant for Colony Capital, correct?
A. correct.
Q. And he was also working with Mr. Jackson, correct?
A. that is correct.
Q. Did you think that was a little bit of a conflict of interest, Sir?
A. no.
Mr. Panish: I guess we're at the ... Unfortunately, Sir... Im not going to be able to ask you any
more questions today. Tomorrow. But if you want to ask me in the hallway, Ill be available.
Brandon Randy Phillips: very kind of you.