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JACKSON V AEG Live June 10th

JACKSON V AEG Live June 10th 05/28/13 Please help us! Brandon “Randy” Phillips (CEO of AEG

Brandon “Randy” Phillips

(CEO of AEG Live)

Plaintiff’s Adverse Witness.

Continued direct examination by Brian Panish:

Q.

Mr. Phillips, did you get a chance to meet with your lawyers over the last four days?

A.

Yes, I did.

Q.

Did you review some more documents?

A.

Yes, I did.

Q.

How many more documents did you review to refresh your recollection?

A.

Probably eight to ten.

Q.

Were those emails?

A.

Yes.

Q.

What were they about?

A.

They were just emails that we've looked at already in this case. Just whatever exhibits from your

exhibit list. Exhibits from your exhibit list.

Q.

You looked at the exhibit list?

A.

No. Exhibits -- I assume they're exhibits from your exhibit list.

Q.

How do you know that?

A.

That was an assumption.

Q.

So what were the exhibits, the emails about that you read?

A.

Uhm, the "trouble at the Front" emails. That chain of emails. I'm not sure what else we looked at.

Q.

How many hours did you spend this time?

A.

Four hours over the weekend.

Q.

Four more hours. So we're up to now 36.5 hours?

A.

I'm not keeping track.

Q.

I'm keeping track. 36.5.

A.

Okay.

Q.

Okay, sir, the week before Michael Jackson died, were you jittery?

A.

The week before he died? The week of the – I wasn't jittery, but I was getting concerned about the

rehearsal schedule and running out of time.

Q. Have you reviewed any emails where Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Beckerman discuss you as being jittery?

A.

I think Dan Beckerman described me as being jittery in one of those emails you're referring to.

Q.

My question was: Did you review any emails where you were described as being jittery?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And did that refresh your recollection about your demeanor that week?

A.

Yes.

Q.

All right. I want to show you exhibit no. 319 and ask you if this is the email you're referring to

(shows document).

A.

Yes, it is.

Q.

Okay. That refreshed your recollection about your condition that week?

A.

That's correct, yes.

Mr. Panish: okay. Let's take a look at that (shows document).

Q. Now, this is -- if you go to the bottom, actually, the last email is on June 20th at 8:47 am, and that's

between Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Beckerman, correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And this is something you reviewed to refresh your recollection, right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And Mr. Leiweke, who is the CEO Of AEG, is telling Mr. Beckerman, who is the CFO, is that right?

A.

At this time, CFO and COO.

Q.

Okay. And he's telling him: "Trouble with MJ. Big trouble. What are you guys up to tonight?"

Right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Okay. And then -- so you had already notified Mr. Leiweke that you were concerned about Mr.

Jackson just five days before he died, is that correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

Okay. And then if we look at the next email, it says -- Mr. Beckerman writes back. And Mr.

Beckerman said: "I figured something might be wrong given how jittery randy has been this week. Is

it 'preshow nerves' bad or 'get a straight jacket/call our insurance carrier' bad? We're around

tonight. Just hanging out."

Now, you've reviewed that, correct?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And you say that you were jittery, correct?

A.

No. That's Dan Beckerman's description of my demeanor. I didn't feel I was jittery, no.

Q.

Okay. You didn't think there was anything abnormal with your demeanor? You were just regular,

how you would always be?

A.

Pretty much, other than I was concerned about what was happening at rehearsals.

Q.

Well, when you were concerned, could someone see that in your demeanor?

A.

It's possible. You'd have to ask them.

Q.

Well, do you think Mr. Beckerman was making it up, as he describes you as jittery?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Calls for speculation.

Judge: Sustained.

Q. Do you have -- do you think that Mr. Beckerman would be in a position to observe your demeanor?

A. Not necessarily. I don't remember seeing Dan that many times that week, so it's hard to say what

was in his mind when he wrote that.

Q. All I'm asking you is whether or not – Mr. Beckerman, how many years have you known him?

A.

12.

Q. And is he someone, in your opinion, who can assess your demeanor, how you look each time he sees

you?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Calls for speculation.

Judge: Overruled.

A. I'm not sure how to answer the question because I'm not in his mind. But, yeah, he could observe me

and have an opinion.

Q. Well, I'm just asking you whether he's observed you enough to comment on your demeanor, in your

opinion?

A.

Sure. Sure.

Q.

Okay. So you don't believe you were jittery, is that right?

A.

No.

Q.

You believe Mr. Beckerman would be mistaken, is that right?

A.

I'm not sure what "jittery" actually looks like.

Q.

Well, if you're not sure what it is, how do you know you weren't jittery?

A.

I don't.

Q.

Well, you just told me you weren't jittery.

A.

Okay. I don't feel that I was jittery, that my demeanor was any different than it normally is, but I was

concerned about what was going on with the rehearsals.

Q.

Well, what does jittery mean, then, if you weren't jittery?

A.

Shaking, I guess. And I wasn't shaking.

Q.

Not as far as you know?

A.

That's true.

Q.

You weren't going around looking at yourself in the mirror, were you?

A.

In the morning.

Q.

When you got to work -- was Mr. Beckerman at your house watching you?

A.

No.

Q.

Okay. You know what a straight jacket is?

A.

Oh, yes.

Q.

And do you know what "call our insurance carrier bad" is?

A.

Well, I have my opinion, reading this email that I'm not copied on.

Q.

Okay. Would it be your understanding that "call your insurance bad" means that Michael's not going

to be able to perform, and we need to call the carrier?

A. You know, I would prefer you ask Mr. Beckerman what he meant when he wrote it, because I don't

want to speak for him. But I would imagine that would mean that there were concerns that the show

could not happen, might not happen.

Q. Okay. Let's look at the next one. And then this is Mr. Beckerman and Mr. Leiweke, something about

going to a beastie ball for Laura

Wasserman. Do you know what a beastie ball is?

A. I don't know what a beastie ball is. It's obviously an event that was honoring Casey Wasserman's

wife, Laura.

Q. And it says: "He is having a mental breakdown."

Do you see that?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Have you ever talked to Mr. Beckerman about this?

A.

No.

Q.

How about Mr. Leiweke, your good friend?

A.

No, because I wasn't copied on this email.

Q.

But since you've seen it, have you ever talked to him about it?

A.

No.

Q.

Did you think you were having a mental breakdown?

Judge: "You," this witness?

Mr. Panish: Yes.

A.

No.

Q.

So you weren't jittery, you weren't having a mental breakdown, right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Okay. Let's see. I think that's it. All right. Do you know whether Mr. Beckerman and Mr. Leiweke

were referring to you or Mr. Jackson

Having a mental breakdown?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Calls for speculation.

Judge: Sustained.

Q. The question is: Do you know? Do you have an understanding, when you reviewed this and

refreshed your recollection, whether they were referring to you or Mr. Jackson?

Ms. Stebbins: Same Objection. Lacks foundation. He said he hadn't spoken to either of them.

Judge: Sustained.

Mr. Panish: What was the Objection?

Ms. Stebbins: Lacks foundation.

Q.

You reviewed this to refresh your recollection, didn't you, sir?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And did it refresh your recollection about what was occurring during this time frame?

A.

It didn't refresh my recollection about these emails because I wasn't on this chain. I didn't receive

them at the time.

Q. I'm going to show you exhibit 302-1. I think I already showed it to you, but -- I did show it to you.

You should have a copy there already. I don't know what happened to –

Mr. Panish: Did you take his exhibits?

Q. Well, anyway, your exhibits are gone, so I'll give it to you anyway (shows document). Do you recall

that I showed this to you yesterday?

A.

Hold on. (reviewing document.) Yes, I do.

Q.

Okay. And we actually briefly discussed this a couple days ago when you told me that Mr. Branca

gave the name of the substance abuse counselor. Remember that?

A.

Yeah. I thought he had.

Q.

And then I showed you this, and then you corrected the testimony?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Now, sir, do you know why Mr. Branca would mention substance abuse?

A.

No. I have no idea.

Q.

And you never asked him that, right?

A.

No. I didn't speak to him during this exchange.

Q.

Never got the name of the substance abuse counselor, correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Do you know if Mr. Gongaware did?

A.

I do not know.

Q.

And you didn't do anything in response to this email, correct?

A.

No, because we were having a meeting that afternoon. No. The answer is, "no."

Q.

Can you read what was written by Mr. Branca? Now, we're here at June 20th at 9:10 in the morning,

okay?

A. "I have the right therapist/spiritual advisor/substance abuse counsellor who could help (recently

helped Mike Tyson get sober and parolled.) Do we know whether there is a substance issue

involved? (perhaps better discussed on the phone)."

Q.

Now, you knew that Dr. Murray's initial demand was $5 million, right?

A.

Right.

Q.

And you knew that Mr. Gongaware had agreed on 150 per month with Dr. Murray, correct?

A.

I believe Michael Jackson had agreed to 150 a month.

Q.

Sir, did Mr. Gongaware write an email to you saying that it was done at 150,000 a month?

A.

It's very possible. You'd have to show it to me again.

Q.

Sir, the fact that the doctor was promised $150,000 a month, you think that might be contributing to

any problems Michael Jackson might have?

A.

It didn't -- never crossed my mind, no.

Q.

All right. And you didn't do anything at that time to find out whether there was a substance abuse

problem, correct?

A. On the morning of the 20th, no.

Q.

Is that correct, sir?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

Okay. Now, sir, Dr. Murray called you around noon on the 20th, correct?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And, sir, how long was that telephone conversation with Dr. Murray?

A.

It was 25 minutes or so. 23 minutes.

Q.

All right. I want to play your deposition and see what you testified under oath there.

Mr. Panish: page 153, line 23, to 155, line 7. And when your counsel is ready, I'm going to show

what you said there, sir. Okay? All right. So let's see what you said, sir.

(Panish plays video clip of Phillips' deposition):

Q. Did you talk to Dr. Murray before the meeting?

A. I vaguely remember having a telephone conversation with him that

Morning.

Q.

And what was the content of that conversation?

A.

About having – about Kenny -- the content of Kenny's email and having a meeting to discuss it.

Q.

Okay. So was it just to – just tell me everything you can remember about the meeting – withdrawn.

Tell me everything you can remember about the phone call. Was it just to schedule the meeting or was

there information conveyed by you to him and him to you?

A. It was -- the bul- -- it was really to schedule the meeting. You

Know, we didn't get into an in-depth discussion about what the issues in the email were.

Q. Okay. So how long did that phone call last, approximately?

A.

Three minutes.

Q.

Because all you were trying to do was, hey, we need to set up a

Meeting to find out what the problem is?

A. To the best of my knowledge, my conversation with Dr. Murray was

To schedule a meeting.

Q. Now, sir, that testimony wasn't true, was it?

A. To the best of my recollection at the time, that's what I thought the call was. I don't remember it

being that long a call, but then I saw the phone log.

Q.

Sir, that testimony that the call lasted three minutes, was not true, was it?

A.

It was not correct.

Q.

And then when you signed your deposition under penalty of perjury, you didn't change that

testimony, did you, sir?

A.

No.

Q.

Then you were shown the phone record after that, weren't you, sir?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And let's see what you testified to then when you were shown the phone record.

Mr. Panish: and that's page 159, line 19, to 163, line 1. And the phone record is exhibit 5-3094

already in evidence.

(Panish plays video clip of Phillips deposition):

Q.

That's your home number?

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

So that's the fourth call from the top on that page, right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And that reflects -- if you run over to the right side of that, that reflects a call at approximately noon

from Dr. Murray to you?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And that's consistent with your recollection?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And the length of time that that call lasted, according to the records, is 1,549 seconds. Do you see

that?

A.

Yes.

Q.

So it's about 25 minutes?

A.

I guess.

Q.

That's not consistent with your recollection of how long this call lasted?

A.

It didn't seem -- didn't feel like it was that long, based on my memory.

Q.

Fair to say that, after looking at this document, that you did more in that conversation than

Schedule a meeting with Dr. Murray?

A.

I would say so.

Q.

And in fact having looked at this now, you know that you talked to Dr. Murray for 25 minutes on

June 20th before the meeting, correct?

A.

That's -- well, that's what it says here.

Q.

And you have no reason to dispute that, do you?

A.

No.

Q.

Tell me what else you talked to Dr. Murray about during that 25-minute period.

A.

I don't remember. He might have done most of the talking. I just don't remember.

Q.

Well, do you remember him doing most of the talking?

A.

I don't remember. I remember the meeting. I don't remember the conversation.

Q.

Do you remember raising with him any issues relating to substance dependence?

A.

No.

Q.

And do you remember giving him any further information about what Mr. Jackson's physical

condition was?

A.

No.

Q.

Do you remember him telling you anything more about Mr. Jackson's physical condition?

A.

I just don't remember the phone call.

Q.

Did you say to Dr. Murray that 'you've got to get Mr. Jackson healthy so he's able to do these

tours'?

A.

I don't remember.

Q.

Do you remember saying to Mr. -- Dr. Murray that 'you need to do something to make sure that Mr.

Jackson doesn't cancel'?

A.

No. I just -- I honestly don't remember.

Q.

Okay. So other than just scheduling the meeting, you have no recollection of anything else that

happened in that 25-minute phone call?

A.

No.

Q.

No, I'm correct, you have no recollection?

A.

I have no recollection.

Q.

You didn't change that in your deposition when you signed it under penalty of perjury, did you?

A.

No.

Q.

You're still sticking with you don't know anything in that call?

A.

I don't remember the call, the context of the call, no.

Q.

Okay. Well, would you agree with me that it -- you didn't need 25 minutes talking to Dr. Murray

about setting up a meeting?

A.

I would agree with you on that.

Q.

And would you agree with me, after you received those emails that we've talked about on Thursday,

that you were concerned about Mr. Jackson's condition?

A.

No question.

Q.

Would it be reasonable to assume that you would have discussed that with Dr. Murray on this 25-

minute phone conversation?

A.

It's very possible I might have even read him those emails.

Q.

My question was: Would it be reasonable to assume that you, as a concerned individual about Mr.

Jackson, during this 25-minute conversation, would have brought up Mr. Jackson's health and

discussed it with Dr. Murray?

A.

I would not have discussed his health as much as what was in the context of those emails.

Q.

All right. That wasn't my question.

Mr. Panish: Could I ask the question be read back, please, your honor?

Judge: You may reread the question.

(the question is read back)

A.

It's -- I'm speculating because I don't remember the exact content of the phone call.

Q.

So you can't tell us one way or the other whether it would have been reasonable that you, as a

concerned individual about Mr. Jackson's health, would have brought it up with Dr. Murray, correct?

A.

You're asking me if it would have been reasonable? Yes.

Q.

For the third time, yes.

A.

Yes.

Q.

And, sir, how did Dr. Murray get your home phone number?

A.

Oh, how he would have my home phone number? There was a list of everyone's home numbers that

was involved in production, and I believe I probably gave him my card and wrote my phone number on

the back of the card.

Q. Well, let's back it up. First of all, anyone in production was given a list of everyone's home phone

numbers, is that right?

A. No, no. You know what? Not the home phone numbers. The cell numbers and the office numbers, if

they had an office. I believe -- well, I would be speculating.

Q.

Let's stick with the question, okay?

A.

Okay. Go ahead.

Q.

You just told me that Dr. Murray would have your home phone number, because everybody

involved in the production got a list with everyone's phone numbers. Did you just say that?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Now you're saying, oh, that didn't include the home numbers. Is that your testimony?

A.

Yeah. Would be the cell number and the office number, if that existed.

Q.

So Dr. Murray, as being someone involved in the production, would have gotten this list with

everyone's phone numbers, correct?

A. Most likely.

Q.

Well, that's what you just testified under oath, isn't it, sir?

A.

Well, I didn't hand him a list. I assume it would be.

Q.

That would be the protocol, the custom and habit, anyone involved with AEG Live in this

production gets a list of the other people's phone numbers; right?

A. Could have been given to him by Michael Amir Williams, could have been given to him by Michael

Jackson. I don't know. I didn't give him the list.

Q.

Sir, could you please answer my question?

A.

Yes.

Q.

You just told me that everyone involved in the production got a list of phone numbers, didn't you?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Is that true testimony?

A.

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Q.

Okay. So Dr. Murray would have got a list, as you said, just like everyone else involved in the

production, correct?

A.

That's not my answer.

Q.

That's what you --

A.

I --

Q. You want me to read back what you said under oath?

A. No. It's okay. I just don't know how he got -- if someone gave it to him formally as part of

Production, or someone connected with Michael. I don't know. I didn't give it to him, so I just don't

know.

Q. But you testified -- you want to change your testimony now, sir? I didn't say it. It wasn't part of my

question. You volunteered that information.

A. I know. Now I'm clarifying it.

Q. All right. So let's say -- so you gave Dr. Murray -- or -- no. You're saying now that that list with all

the phone numbers didn't have anyone's home numbers on it? Is that your testimony under oath?

A.

It may have had some people's home numbers. It wouldn't have had my phone number.

Q.

You know that? You've seen the list?

A.

No.

Q.

Well, how do you know your home phone number wasn't on it?

A.

Because I generally don't use it that much and don't give it out.

Q.

You gave it out to Dr. Murray, didn't you?

A.

It's very possible that I left a message for him on his machine, if that exists, or Frank Dileo gave him

my home number to call me. I'm not sure.

Q.

You don't know who gave him your phone number, according to your testimony?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

But you just testified three minutes ago that you gave him the number, and he wrote it on the back of

your card, right?

A.

I gave him my cell number on the back of the card.

Q.

Well, you just said your home number, didn't you, sir?

A.

I made a mistake.

Q.

So you're changing that testimony?

A.

I'm clarifying my testimony, Mr. Panish.

Q.

Well, okay. Because you know on the back of the card that the police found in Dr. Murray's car, your

card had your cell phone number written on it, didn't it, sir?

A.

I learned that after the fact.

Q.

Well, let me show you exhibit 500-326. When you told Dr. Murray your cell phone, did you watch

him write it on the back of your card, sir?

A.

Usually, I write it on the back of my card.

Q.

Okay. Well, sir, didn't you testify under oath that you wrote

your phone number on the back of the card and gave it to Dr. Murray?

A.

That would be standard for me, yes.

Q.

That wasn't my question, sir.

A.

Yes. The answer is, "yes."

Q.

My question is: Did you testify under oath that you wrote on the back of your card your phone

number and handed it to Dr. Murray?

A.

Yes.

Q.

When did you do that, sir?

A.

It would have been during the first meeting we had at the house.

Q.

And that was either late May, early June or mid June, right?

A.

Early to mid June.

Q.

But you testified before it was late May, right?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Misstates the testimony.

Phillips: I believe it was early --

Judge: Let me rule on the Objection.

Phillips: Sorry, your honor.

Judge: Misstates his earlier testimony where?

Ms. Stebbins: The earlier testimony, your honor, was that it may have been late May or early

June. He never testified that it was late May.

Judge: I wasn't asking that. I was asking, was it at deposition or here at trial?

Ms. Stebbins: In the deposition, your honor. At trial he said "early to mid June."

Judge: Okay. Why don't you reask the question.

Q.

Sir, you testified under oath in your deposition, it was either late may or early June, right?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And you never changed that testimony, did you?

A.

No, sir.

Q.

So for me to say, "late May or early June," that doesn't misstate your testimony under oath that you

affirmed, does it, sir?

A.

No. But I qualified it here.

Q.

You changed it here, right? Isn't it right?

A.

I clarified it.

Q.

Did you change it?

A.

I clarified it.

Q.

Well -- do you have the same cell phone number now, sir?

A.

No.

Q.

All right. Well, what is that exhibit number? Since it's not your number, I want to clarify that it's

your handwriting, that you wrote it. And you wanted Dr. Murray to call you whenever he needed to talk

to you, right?

A.

That would have been standard procedure for me, yes.

Q.

Is that what you'd normally do with doctors that you deal with on tours: give them your cell phone

number on the back of your card?

A. I've never dealt with a doctor on a tour, so this would be the first time. But I would do it with

The sound guy, with an agent.

Q. You give them your home phone number, also?

A.

No.

Q.

Does anyone call you at your home from the production?

A.

Paul could.

Q.

"Paul" is Mr. Gongaware?

A.

Gongaware. Any of the executives at AEG would have my --

Q.

The only ones that call you at home are executives at AEG And Dr. Murray for this tour, right?

A.

No. That's not what I --

Q.

Who else was calling you?

A.

Frank Dileo had my home phone number.

Q.

Did Frank Dileo call you at home, sir?

A.

Yes.

Q.

When?

A.

I believe -- he either called me at home or on my cell phone, but it was that morning on the 20th.

Q.

Sir, we're talking about your home now.

A.

I understand.

Q.

We established that Dr. Murray called you at your home. What I want to know is, who else from this

tour was calling you at your home, that you remember, if anyone?

A.

Many people called me at home from AEG Live, so I don't --

Q.

Relating to the tour, sir.

A.

I can't remember.

Q.

The only one you can remember is Dr. Murray, correct?

A.

No. I believe Frank called me on my home phone.

Q.

When?

A.

A couple of times during the course of the tour in preparations for the tour.

Q.

In April?

A.

No. Probably in May.

Q.

"Probably." You sure about that?

A.

I'm not 100 percent sure. I'd have to look at my home phone records.

Q.

I want to show this to you. I don't have a copy, I apologize, but everyone's seen it. The number is

665-121 (shows document). Can you identify that handwriting for us, sir?

A. That is my handwriting.

Mr. Panish: All right. Let's put that up.

Q.

And this is on the back of your card, what you wrote, for Dr. Murray, right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Okay. All right. Now, sir, you talked to Dr. Murray -- strike that. After you talked to Dr. Murray, you

got another email from Mr. Ortega, correct?

A.

I believe so.

Q.

Well, let's play your deposition. 181, line 7, to 182, line 1. And before I do that, I'm going to reshow

you -- I think I've already showed this to you -- 307-1 6544 and 2. I don't know what happened to it. I'll

give you another copy. (shows document)

A.

Thank you.

Q.

Okay. And you've seen that, right?

A.

Hold on.

Q.

Yes?

A.

Hold on one second. Let me read it.

Q.

Okay. No problem.

A.

(reading document) Yes.

Q.

Okay. Now, this was at -- email from --

Judge: What's the exhibit number?

Mr. Panish: It's 307, your honor.

Judge: All right.

Mr. Panish: 1 through 4. And the email I'm referring to first is at 1:20 in the afternoon, and it

starts on page 307-2. And before I get to that, I want to play your testimony. So that's 181/7 to

182, line 1.

(Panish plays video clip from Phillips deposition):

Q. And then Mr. Ortega's response to you at 1:20 that day, June 20th, was that he was at home waiting

for your call or instruction. So it's fair to say that the meeting had to happen sometime after 1:20?

A.

Yes.

Q.

All right. And at least Mr. Ortega wrote, 'I honestly don't think he is ready for this based on his

continued physical weakening and

deepening emotional state', right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And when he wrote there about the -- that 'this is reminiscent of

What Karen, Bush, Travis and I remembered just before he fainted,

Causing the HBO concerts to be canceled,' do you know what he meant?

A.

No.

Q.

Did you ask him?

A.

No.

Q.

When Mr. Ortega wrote, 'I think the very best thing we can do is get a top psychiatrist in to

evaluate him ASAP,' that's at least

What Ortega was asking?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Was there any discussion at all about what Dr. Murray's qualifications were in the area of

psychiatry or psychology?

A.

No.

Q.

Now, sir, is Dr. Murray a psychiatrist, to your knowledge?

A.

No. Not to my knowledge.

Q.

I'm sorry. I couldn't --

A.

Not to my knowledge, no.

Q.

And, sir, Mr. Ortega told you, if you look at the second page of that, that he thought he needed

professional guidance in this matter, correct?

A.

Yes.

Q.

That's on the second page of the email.

A.

Got it.

Q.

Now, and I think I asked you, you didn't do anything in that regard, correct?

A.

At 9:00 in the morning when I received this, no.

Q.

No. At any time you never contacted a psychiatrist?

A.

It wouldn't be my place to do that.

Q.

Okay. So I guess, then, the answer to the question is, you never contacted a psychiatrist, is that right,

sir?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

Okay. But you did contact Dr. Murray, correct?

A.

Michael's personal physician, yes, I did.

Q.

You keep saying that, sir. Let's look at the next email that you wrote where you write back to Mr.

Ortega eight minutes later.

Did you write this email, sir? (shows document)

A. Correct.

Q. Did you ever mention anything in this email about Dr. Murray being Michael Jackson's personal

physician?

A.

I wouldn't, because Kenny knew that.

Q.

Excuse me, sir?

A.

The answer is, "no."

Q.

Did you ever write anything like, "Hey, we shouldn't be doing anything. This is Mr. Jackson's

personal physician"? Did you write that?

A.

No.

Q.

Okay. Let's start at the bottom of this email. Why don't you read the last paragraph for me, sir?

A.

Okay. Of this -- just this email, just that email? You mean the next-to-last paragraph?

Q.

No. "I am."

A.

"I am" --

Q. Is that the last paragraph?

A. Yes. It's being highlighted now. "I am meeting with him today at 4:00 pm at the Forum. Please

stay steady. Enough alarms have sounded. It's time to put out the fire, not burn down the building.

Sorry for all the analogies."

Q.

All right. So you're telling Mr. Ortega you're going to meet with him at 4:00, right, at the Forum?

A.

At this time, that's what I thought we were going to do.

Q.

That meeting never happened, right?

A.

No.

Q.

Is that correct?

A.

It never happened at the forum.

Q.

Correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And then you say, "please stay steady." are you trying to tell Mr. Ortega, don't worry, stay steady?

A.

Basically, yes.

Q.

And then you say, "enough alarms have sounded." in other words, you've said enough in those

emails, relax, stay steady, don't be worried, right?

A.

Yes. And let's have the meeting.

Q.

And what?

A.

And the intent, the reason I said that is we were going to have this meeting and find out exactly what

the problem was.

Q. Okay. Well, in fact, you were going to find out -- "it's time to put out the fire." okay. What was "the

fire"? Michael's condition?

A. Based on the emails I had received from Kenny and from John Houghdahl, yes, it was Michael's

condition at the rehearsal the night before.

Q. And then you write, "time to put out the fire, not burn the building down." so when there's a fire, is

that a serious matter, a fire?

A.

Yeah. It would be considered a serious matter.

Q.

And to "burn the building down" would mean to pull the plug on the concert, wouldn't it?

A.

Yes, correct. That is correct.

Q.

Okay. And then could you read the next paragraph? "It is critical."

A.

"It is critical that we surround mike with love and support and listen to how he wants to get ready

for July 13th. You cannot imagine the harm and ramifications of stopping this now. It would far

outweigh calling this game in the 7th inning. I'm not just talking about AEG's interest here but the

myriad of stuff and lawsuits swirling around MJ that I crisis manage every day and also his well-

being."

Q.

The last thing you say is "his well-being", right?

A.

In that sentence.

Q.

In that paragraph?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Okay. Well, then, if we go up, the sentence that starts "This doctor," the last thing you said is: "so

he" -- and I assume you meant to say "is" -- "totally unbiased and ethical." Did you mean to say "is" in

there?

A.

"Does not need this gig, so he is totally unbiased" -- yes.

Q.

So you just slipped that word, right? You forgot to put it in?

A.

Yeah. Typo.

Q.

So if somebody -- so you raised whether this doctor was biased or unethical or unbiased and ethical,

didn't you, sir?

A. In this email, yes.

Q. Because that's because Dr. Murray had told you that if he were to do something or call someone

else in, that would hasten Michael's decline, wouldn't it?

A. No. That's not what he meant. He meant if we "pulled the plug," as you put it, or stopped the

production, that that would hasten Michael's decline. That was my understanding.

Q.

Did you discuss with Dr. Murray pulling the plug as an option?

A.

No.

Q.

Well, then, how do you know Dr. Murray meant pull the plug?

A.

Because he was responding to Kenny's email.

Q.

Well, sir, you talked only -- you're the only one that was on the phone during that 25-minute

conversation with Dr. Murray, isn't that true?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

Just you -- and you didn't tell anyone else, other than Mr. Ortega in this writing, what you and Dr.

Murray talked about, correct?

A.

No, because we were going to meet that afternoon. I was asking Kenny to attend this meeting.

Q.

Sir, that was not my question. My question was: You didn't write to anyone what you spoke to Dr.

Murray about except Mr. Ortega, correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And 25 minutes, to you, would be a lengthy conversation, wouldn't it?

A.

In retrospect, yes.

Q.

And it would be a lot more than a 3-minute conversation to set up a meeting, correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And you tell Mr. Ortega that Dr. Murray said that Mike -- discouraging Michael will hasten his

decline instead of stopping it, correct?

A. That's what I wrote, correct.

Q.

Right. That was -- did you make that up?

A.

No. I was probably reflecting my conversation with Dr. Murray.

Q.

Well, sir, you don't remember what happened in the conversation. The only thing we know is what

you wrote here, right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you wrote, "discouraging him will hasten his decline," didn't you, sir?

A.

Yes. That Dr. Murray said that, yes.

Q.

Right. So Dr. Murray was telling you that Michael, at five days before his death, was on a decline,

wasn't he, sir, according to what you wrote here?

A.

That's based -- I was reflecting what he said, yes.

Q.

So Dr. Murray told you five days before Michael's death that he was on a decline, right?

A.

I don't remember the extent of the conversation, but I did put it in this email.

Q.

Did you make that up and lie to Mr. Ortega?

A.

No. I don't lie.

Q.

You don't think you did, or you didn't?

A.

No. I said, "I don't lie."

Q.

You don't lie? Okay. So a decline is the same thing as someone

Deteriorating, isn't it, sir?

A.

I -- I don't know what the definition – the distinction is between the two words.

Q.

There really isn't any, is there? Someone is declining is the same thing as someone deteriorating,

isn't it?

A.

Most likely, yes.

Q.

You would agree with that, wouldn't you, sir?

A.

Yes.

Q. So now you have Mr. Ortega, Mr. Houghdahl and Dr. Murray telling you, within five days of

Michael's death, that he's deteriorating and declining, correct?

A.

I have them telling me within 12 hours of receiving these emails.

Q.

Sir, Mr. Houghdahl told you that Michael was deteriorating for eight weeks in front of his eyes,

correct?

A.

In an email that I received the night before.

Q.

So three people -- a doctor, the show director, and the production manager -- are telling you that

Michael is deteriorating and declining; correct?

A.

I don't believe Dr. Murray put it exactly that way --

Q.

Well, sir --

A.

-- so --

Q.

-- you have no recollection --

A.

-- no.

Q.

-- of what you and Dr. Murray talked about other than what you wrote in this email when you wrote

the truth, right, sir?

A.

But he didn't agree with Kenny and John's -- well, john's was really Kenny's observations.

Q.

You never gave him those emails, did you, sir?

A.

Who? Dr. Murray?

Q.

Yeah.

A.

I may have read them to him. I don't remember.

Q.

Well, sir, you don't know what you talked about with Dr. Murray, so how could you say you might

have read them? You have no idea what you talked to Dr. Murray about during that lengthy

conversation, do you?

A. No. But Frank may have sent him the emails.

Mr. Panish: Move to strike. Speculation. No foundation.

Judge: Motion granted. The answer is stricken.

Q. Now, sir, when you say – now here's a doctor that's, according to you, telling you that discouraging

Michael to perform or go to practice would hasten his decline, correct?

A.

That's what he said.

Q.

According to what you wrote, right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And then you say that "doctor's extremely successful (we check everyone out) and does not need

this gig, so he is totally unbiased and ethical", correct?

A.

That's what I felt at the time I wrote that, yes.

Q.

And this is a doctor that's telling you that this performer's health is in a decline, correct?

A.

He did not say that. He said if we stopped the production, it would -- he felt it would hasten his

decline.

Q.

What does it mean to hasten something, sir?

A.

To accelerate as opposed to stop it or turn it around.

Q.

He's already in a decline if you're hastening his decline, isn't that true, sir?

A.

No. I know I have to answer "yes" or "no," but this email came a couple of hours before we were

having a meeting.

Q. Sir, this doctor told you, according to you -- because you have no recollection other than what you

wrote -- that discouraging him will hasten his decline. That means he's already on a decline, doesn't it,

sir?

A. That means there was an issue. Dr. Murray -- we were setting up a meeting with Michael, with Dr.

Murray. I didn't know what the issue was.

Q.

Sir, you wrote "it's going to hasten his decline" instead of "stopping the decline," didn't you, sir?

A.

Correct. Correct.

Q.

Now, sir -- then you say, "this doctor is extremely successful", right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

You didn't know anything about Dr. Murray's qualifications at this time, did you, sir?

A.

No. I had nothing to do with hiring him.

Q.

Pardon me?

A.

I had nothing to do with Dr. Murray's -- with the negotiations. I had nothing to do with that.

Q.

If you stop production, Dr. Murray would no longer get paid, would he?

A.

I don't believe we were paying him at that point in time.

Q.

If you stopped production, Dr. Murray would not get paid, would he, sir?

A.

He wasn't getting paid at that point. He hadn't signed his contract.

Q.

Could you answer the question, please? If you stopped production, Dr. Murray would never get

paid, would he, sir?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Lacks foundation as to who is paying.

Judge: Overruled.

Phillips: I can't answer the question the way you're phrasing it.

Q. Now, both Mr. Houghdahl and Mr. Ortega said to you they felt that Mr. Jackson needed a psychiatric

evaluation, correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And they had much more contact with Mr. Jackson than you, correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And Mr. Ortega was expressing to you his concern was much more than Michael's lack of focus,

correct?

A.

I'd have to read the email.

Q.

You don't remember?

A.

I'd have to read the email now that you're referring to it.

Q.

Well, you ready?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Okay. When you said, "Dr. Murray was extremely successful," you didn't have any information

about whether he was successful or not, did you, sir?

A. No. It was my opinion based on the fact that he had multiple clinics in multiple states, and he was

looking to get bought out of those clinics so he could close them down. And I thought he was

successful.

Q. Sir, when you said, "Dr. Murray was extremely successful," you didn't know one way or the other

whether he was successful or not, did you, sir?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

So when you wrote, "he is extremely successful," that was a false statement upon which you had no

basis to say that, correct?

A. You would call it a false statement, I would call it an assumption I made based on what he was

asking for.

Q. Well, is it true that you knew that Dr. Murray was extremely successful on June 20th at 1:48 in the

afternoon? "yes" or "no"?

A.

No. It was an assumption.

Q.

So what you wrote you now admit was not true, correct?

A.

At the time I thought it was.

Q.

Sir, when you wrote, "Dr. Murray is extremely successful," that was not true, was it, sir?

A.

In retrospect, correct.

Q.

At any time. It's never been true, has it, sir?

A.

No.

Q.

Okay. Then you say, "We" -- that's AEG Live, correct?

A.

Well, I can't answer "at any time." he may have been successful and not good with his money. I have

no idea.

Q.

Okay. Well, exactly.

A.

Yeah.

Q.

So you have no evidence that he was ever successful, despite what you wrote, correct?

A.

Other than the assumption I made.

Q.

You have no evidence, sir, do you?

A.

No.

Q.

Okay. So let's go to the next one. "We" -- that's AEG Live, correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

-- "check everyone out", correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Did you limit that to who you check out?

A.

Well, you have to understand our process. Well, you're asking if I limited it, so I need to answer that

question.

Q.

It's easy. Did you limit it or not?

A.

No, it's not that easy. It's not that simple.

Q.

Sir --

A. Mr. Panish, when we hire third-party vendors, there are three types of vendors we hire: there are

people we worked with in the past. We would not have to check them out because they've had

Experience. There are new people we've never worked with before that will give us references. We will

generally call -- we don't do background checks, and things like that, but we will call to find out if

those references are correct as stated. And then the third thing are vendors, the artists, bring them into a

production with them, and

Those people we would not check out because we would assume the artist had experience with them.

But that's how the process --

Q.

Sir, could you answer my question?

A.

Yes.

Q.

"We check everyone out." That's not true, is it, sir?

A.

It's not untrue.

Q.

Is "we check everyone out" true or untrue?

A.

We check -- it's -- it's just very hard. I'm not being evasive, it's just very hard to answer it, because

we do check people we haven't worked with out before by making phone calls –

Judge: Mr. Phillips, listen to the question and answer the question.

Phillips: I will, your honor.

Q. It's real simple. When you wrote, "We" -- AEG Live -- "check

everyone out," is that a true statement or an untrue statement?

A. It's not -- it's hard to say "yes" or "no" on that.

Q.

Is it a true statement or an untrue statement, sir? Do you not understand that question?

A.

It's not true, because "everyone" would imply everyone, and it's not true.

Q.

It's not true, isn't it, sir?

A.

That we check everyone out, correct.

Q.

Right. What you wrote here now, the second thing you wrote is not true, correct?

A.

Correct, in retrospect.

Q.

All right. At any time it's not true, isn't it, sir?

A.

You're taking it out of context. At the time, I thought it was true.

Q.

Sir --

A.

It's not what I do.

Q.

-- you wrote, "we check everyone out," didn't you?

A.

"We" meaning someone in my company.

Q.

AEG Live.

A.

Would check anyone out if we haven't worked with them before.

Q.

Did you say that? "We check everyone out that we haven't worked with before"?

A.

No, no.

Q.

Had you worked with Conrad Murray before?

A.

Never.

Q.

Okay. "We check everyone out," AEG checks everyone out, is a false statement that you wrote to

Mr. Ortega, correct?

A.

In retrospect, yes.

Q.

It's never been true, has it, sir?

A.

At the time I wrote it, I thought it was true.

Q.

Sir, whether you write something or not, the question is: is it true --

A.

No.

Q.

-- or not true? Do you think that because you think something is true, you can say it's true?

A.

No, but I think you would want my intent, and why I wrote it. But the answer is "no," the answer to

your question.

Q.

All I want is the truth, sir. Is it true or untrue?

A.

Untrue.

Q.

Then you go on to say, "and doesn't need this gig." Did I read that correctly?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And that "gig" would be acting as the doctor for Michael Jackson, correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And that, sir, you had no basis to say that, did you?

A.

Well, it follows the first part of the sentence.

Q.

Sir, would you like the question read back?

A.

The answer is, "yes."

Mr. Panish: Well, can I ask it be read back, please?

Judge: You may read it back.

(the question is read back)

A.

Correct.

Q.

That, again, is an untrue statement, isn't it, Mr. Phillips?

A.

In retrospect, based on the information afterwards, yes.

Q.

Okay. Well, it was never true, was it, sir?

A.

At this time, obviously, it wasn't true.

Q.

It was never true when you wrote it, was it, sir?

A.

I don't know if that's the case, if it was never true. I don't know him.

Q.

As of -- well, but you wrote it was true, and you didn't even know that, correct?

A.

Correct. Correct.

Q.

So you made another untrue statement in this email to Mr. Ortega, correct?

A.

I made another assumption based on information that I thought I had.

Q.

Did you say, "I assume the doctor's extremely careful, and I assume we check everyone out, and I

assume he doesn't need this gig"?

A.

No.

Q.

You were a lot more definitive than that, weren't you, sir?

A.

At the time, yes.

Q.

You didn't change this email, did you, sir?

A.

No.

Q.

And then you say, "he's totally unbiased and ethical." you had absolutely no basis to say that, did

you, sir?

A. No.

Q. Is that correct?

A. I didn't have any basis to say he was unbiased and ethical. You have to understand something. The

way --

Q.

Just please answer the question.

A.

I can't answer "yes" or "no."

Q.

Let me rephrase it, sir.

A.

To me, doctors are --

Judge: Just --

Q.

All doctors are ethical?

A.

Well, obviously, that's not true.

Q.

No kidding.

A.

No.

Q.

Now, sir, what would be the opposite of -- could you fill this sentence in for me: he really needs this

gig, so he's totally -- how would you complete that sentence?

A.

Biased and unethical, based on what you're saying. But that's not what I wrote.

Q.

No. Because you didn't write the truth, did you?

A.

At the time I thought that was the truth.

Q.

Sir, you did not write the truth?

A.

Based on the knowledge I have now, no.

Q.

You didn't have any knowledge when you wrote that, that that was true, did you, sir?

A.

Just about the negotiations, no.

Q.

So when you wrote that statement, you had no knowledge that it was true, correct?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

Now, sir, and the sole basis for any of your belief about Dr. Murray was the short meeting at the

house, whenever that was, we don't know, right?

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

"Yes"?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you saw him one time at the Forum, and you didn't talk to him, right?

A.

I said, "hello."

Q.

Okay. You said, "hello." did that help you determine if he's successful or not, how he responded to

your saying, "hello"?

A.

Of course not, Mr. Panish.

Q.

And then you had a 25-minute conversation shortly before this email, correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

And that's it. That's all the information you had?

A.

Other than what Kathy Jorrie or Paul might have told me about the negotiations, and what he was

asking for, that's correct.

Q.

So you were involved in discussing the negotiations with Kathy Jorrie and Paul Gongaware?

A.

I wasn't involved. They just mentioned it to me, what was going on.

Q.

Okay. When did Ms. Jorrie first mention the negotiations with Dr. Murray with you?

A.

Probably sometime in June.

Q.

"Probably." Do you know whether she ever mentioned it to you, sir?

A.

No. I do know she had.

Q.

When?

A.

She might be able to testify to that better than I can remember.

Q.

I'm just asking you, sir.

A.

I don't know.

Q.

When did you talk to Mr. Gongaware about the negotiations with Dr. Murray?

A.

Uhm, after Michael instructed him to hire him.

Q.

And then he told you that he did hire him, didn't he?

A.

No.

Q.

He never told you that he hired him and had a done deal?

A. What he told me is that Dr. Murray wanted $5 million to buy out his clinics, and Paul told Dr.

Murray there's no way that's going to happen. Paul told Michael what Dr. Murray wanted, and Michael

told Paul, "I will take care of this," and I believe Michael is the one who got Dr. Murray to take this gig

for 150 a month.

Q.

You don't know if Michael Jackson ever talked to Dr. Murray, do you, sir?

A.

No. I know what Paul told me.

Q.

Well, we heard Mr. Gongaware. He testified in this trial. Did you know that?

A.

Of course I know.

Q.

Did you talk to him about his testimony?

A.

Absolutely not.

Q.

Now, sir, in response -- let me show you 315-1. Can we go back to that? There's one thing I wanted

to talk about, your email, sir, where you say: "Kenny, it is critical that neither you, me or anyone

around the show become amateur psychiatrists or physicians."

Is that your word, sir?

A.

"Or physicians," Yes.

Q.

Is that your word, sir, "amateur"?

A.

That actually, probably, reflected what Dr. Murray may have said to me in that phone call.

Q.

Wait a minute. "May have reflected what he may have said to me on the phone." You don't

remember anything in the call, right?

A. No. But I'm assuming that I didn't come up with that description by myself. It was probably the

result of my conversation with him.

Q.

Do you know that, sir?

A.

No, I don't.

Q.

So far what we've seen, most of your assumptions have been untrue, haven't they, sir?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Argumentative.

Judge: Overruled.

A.

You may want to characterize them that way, okay? At the time I wrote it, I felt it was the truth.

Q.

You already admitted it was all untrue, didn't you, sir?

A.

In retrospect, yes.

Q.

What does that mean, "in retrospect"? When you wrote it, it was true, and then it turned out to not be

true?

A. I'm trying to testify to what my -- what I intended when I wrote this versus what I learned after

Michael's death.

Q. Well, do you think you can just write whatever you want, whether it's true or untrue, sir?

A. No. But in a highly-charged situation like this, I just wanted to keep things calm until we had the

meeting.

Q. The "highly-charged" was that Mr. Jackson couldn't perform, and your shows couldn't go forward,

right?

A.

The night before, that they sent him home from rehearsals.

Q.

"Highly-charged" means that the shows might not go on, right?

A.

It's -- I understand it suits your case to say that. I just wanted to calm things down until we had this

meeting.

Q.

Sir --

A.

This is all happening within a 12- to 16-hour period.

Q.

Sir, you used the term "in a highly-charged situation" --

A.

Correct.

Q.

-- didn't you?

A.

Correct.

Q.

That's not my term, is it?

A.

No, no. I accept that term. I have no problem with that.

Q.

Okay. Now, at one -- okay. Right -- can you look at 315-1? I don't know where it is. I think I might

have it. You have it, sir?

Judge: Just so you know, we're going to take a break at 11:00.

Mr. Panish: Okay.

Phillips: No. Mr. Panish, wherever --

Mr. Panish: Did I give you two?

Ms. Stebbins: You gave us one. Just one.

Mr. Panish: Can I borrow it for the witness? I'm sorry. I only have one copy. Is it okay if I

borrow it?

Ms. Stebbins: That's the only copy you have for the witness?

Mr. Panish: I have this one I wrote on. You want me to give him that?

Ms. Stebbins: You can give --

Mr. Panish: No, I'll give him mine. That's okay. I wrote all over it, but maybe that will help you

key in on what I want to ask you about.

Phillips: Mr. Panish, I don't want any unfair advantage. Would you give me the other one?

Q.

No. Go ahead. It's all right.

A.

No, I won't. I won't look at it.

Q.

No. It will make it go faster.

A.

No. No. I don't want to help you with your case. Okay. Would you --

Q.

Your lawyer gave up theirs.

A.

Very kind of them.

Q.

I'm just trying to help you. That's all. (shows document) Okay, sir. You with me?

A.

Yes, I'm with you.

Q.

Did you write that, the top email?

A.

The top email? The one to Paul Gongaware, yes.

Q.

Okay. So let's take a look at the last – at 1:47 you wrote -- let's go down below so we have some

context. Mr. Gongaware writes to you at 1:47, which is actually a minute before you write to Mr.

Ortega, approximately, correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

"Take the doctor with you. Why wasn't he there last night?" Actually, that's early in the morning

that he writes that, apparently.

A.

Correct.

Q.

Okay. And then Bugzee is on that, of course, also, is that right?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And then you write: "He probably felt everything was fine since MJ left the house on time." Right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Do you know where Dr. Murray was during this time, sir?

A.

I have no idea, no.

Q.

Did you write to Amy Pascal about where Dr. Murray had been during the week before Michael's

death?

A. To Amy Pascal about where Dr. Murray had been? Yes, there is an email to an Amy Pascal who is

the Chairwoman for Sony Pictures, yes.

Q.

And you wrote to her and said Dr. Murray is crazy, right?

A.

That is what I wrote.

Q.

And you said that: "Remind me to tell you about where Conrad had been the nights and the week

before Michael's death when he was supposed to be caring for Michael." Correct?

A.

When was that email written?

Q.

Did you write that email, sir?

A.

After Michael's death, yes. After tons of news reports.

Q.

Did you write that email?

A.

Yes, I did.

Q.

And did you learn that Dr. Murray wasn't caring for Dr. Murray, and he wasn't there at the house

when Michael left?

A. You mean caring for Michael, not Dr. Murray. You meant Dr. Murray caring for Michael?

Judge: Reask the question.

Mr. Panish: Okay. That's fine. I will.

Q.

You knew, sir -- you learned that Dr. Murray wasn't at the house caring for Michael, was he?

A.

After his death, I learned that.

Q.

And you learned that Dr. Murray was out each evening somewhere other than Michael's house, a

social establishment?

A.

I learned what I learned from either Fox News or CNN, yes.

Q.

Did you learn that he was not at Michael's house and out at some social establishment?

A.

Yes, I did.

Q.

Okay. Now, 318-1. Did I show that to you? Sorry. (shows document)

A.

Thank you.

Q.

You're welcome. Seen that before, sir?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Is that one of the emails your lawyers showed you to prepare you to testify?

A.

Yes, it is.

Q.

Okay.

Mr. Panish: Let's put that up.

Q. Okay. In response -- this is in response to Mr. Gongaware saying, "Take the doctor with you. Why

wasn't he there last night", correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And read us what you said.

A.

I said: "He is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be at this point. Obviously

getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper."

Q. Okay. You knew that Dr. Murray couldn't help with the psychiatrist, correct?

A. No. He could have helped bringing in a psychiatrist or recommending one, or finding one for

Michael. Certainly would have been more qualified than I would have been or Kenny.

Q. But no one brought one in, did they, sir?

A. Because he didn't need one. No, no one brought one in. No one brought one in based on the meeting

on the 20th.

Q. So are you now telling us that you have a medical opinion about whether Michael Jackson needed a

psychiatrist or not, sir?

A. No. I'm saying Michael Jackson had a medical opinion about that.

Q.

So Michael Jackson, was he a doctor, sir?

A.

Not to my knowledge.

Q.

Did he go to law school, like you?

A.

Not to my knowledge.

Q.

Now, sir, and your communications directly after this -- "this" being 318-1 -- this is what you wrote

right after telling Mr. Ortega not to burn the house down, right?

A.

Correct. I assume it was that day, that time period. So probably, yes.

Q.

You assume. Every time you say that, I get worried. You better look at the other exhibit, and let's

make sure now.

A.

Okay. What was the time? Can you help me with that?

Q.

I believe it was 1:48.

A.

And this was 2:01. So, yes, it would be around the same time period.

Q.

It would actually be after, correct, sir?

A.

Directly after, yes.

Q.

Thank you, sir. And then –

Mr. Panish: Your honor, is this okay?

Judge: If it's a good time.

Mr. Panish: That's okay.

Judge: Okay, sir.

Mr. Panish: Thank you.

Judge: Let's take a 15 minute break.

(break)

Judge: You can continue.

Mr. Panish: Thank you, your honor.

Q.

318-1 we left off on, sir. And this is where you wrote to Gongaware and Mr. Bugzee, right?

A.

Right.

Q.

And in this email, this is your response, the first email you wrote after you wrote to Mr. Ortega,

what we just went through, is that right?

A. That's correct.

Mr. Panish: Okay. I'd like to play the deposition, 195/25 to 197/20.

I showed them at the break.

(Panish plays video clip of Phillips deposition):

Q. And then your response to Mr. Gongaware copied to Mr. Leiweke and Bugzee was what?

A. 'He is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be

At this point. Obviously getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper.'

Q.

All right. Murray is not a psychiatrist?

A.

Or whoever. The physician. I just don't remember who I was referring to. Most likely Murray.

Q.

Right. And there was no other physician that you remember

bringing to this meeting, was there?

A.

No.

Q.

And when you wrote that 'Murray is not a psychiatrist,' you knew that to be the case, right?

A.

Yes. I knew he wasn't a psychiatrist.

Q.

And when you wrote, 'I'm not sure how effective he can be at this

point,' the reason you had doubt is because you thought the problem was psychological?

A. Based on Kenny's email. I was responding to Kenny's email

because I was not there.

Q. All right. And you said that the -- 'getting him there is not the

issue.' 'him' is Jackson or 'him' is Murray?

A.

Murray or the doctor.

Q.

Okay. Most likely Murray?

A.

Right. Right.

Q.

You never asked another doctor to come and see Mr. Jackson, did you?

A.

No. As I repeated, no.

Q.

Okay. 'it is much deeper.' what did you mean by that, sir?

A.

Based on Kenny's email, that it may not be a physical problem. It

could be a psychological problem.

Q.

What did you do to resolve that?

A.

We had a meeting at the house.

Q.

With Dr. Murray?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Who is not a psychologist?

A.

Correct.

Q. Now, sir, when you wrote to Mr. Leiweke, Mr. Bugzee and Mr. Gongaware, did you tell them that

you had gained immense respect for Dr. Murray?

A.

I believe I wrote that in an email to Kenny. I'm not sure if they were copied on it.

Q.

Well, let's go back and look at the exhibit, which is exhibit no. 307.

A.

Okay.

Q.

Just quickly. Okay. This is the email I spent some time going through with you. I'm not going to go

through it again with you now.

But what I want to show is "extremely successful," "immense respect" that was sent at 1:48, correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you didn't send that to Mr. Gongaware or Mr. Bugzee or Mr. Leiweke, correct?

A.

In this chain I have right above it, it was sent to Mr. Leiweke.

Q.

At what time?

A.

At 8:49 pm

Q.

So that's seven hours, eight hours later?

A.

Correct.

Q.

So that wasn't my question. My question was: If we go back to

Exhibit 318-1, when you responded to these gentlemen, Leiweke, Houghdahl and Gongaware, you

didn't say all those things that you said to Mr. Ortega, did you?

A.

No.

Q.

You didn't say you'd gained immense respect for him, did you?

A.

No.

Q.

You didn't tell him he was ethical because he didn't need this gig?

A.

No.

Q.

You didn't tell him how Dr. Murray didn't need this gig and that you check everyone out, right?

A.

No.

Q.

And what you told your direct report, Mr. Leiweke, was that: "Murray's not a psychiatrist, so I'm not

sure how effective he could be at this point." Correct?

A.

Correct. He was copied on it. I was responding to Paul.

Q.

Okay.

A.

Yeah.

Q.

But you assumed that your boss is going to read an email that you're sending to him about the

biggest project that you have going on, isn't he?

A.

One of the biggest projects. And, yes, not the biggest one, one of the biggest.

Q.

What was the bigger project that you had going on at this time in time?

A.

Celine Dion of Las Vegas.

Q.