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Traduzione in Italiano 05/28/13 Please help us!

Travis Payne
(Associate Director/Choreographer, This Is It)
Defendants Witness.

Typed by WendyLovesMJ
Direct examination by Jessica Stebbins.

Q Yesterday we talked about your involvement in This Is It, do you remember?
A Yes.
Q Did you have a contract?
A Yes.
Q And was that contract with AEGLive?
A AEGLive.
Q Did Michael Jackson get personally get involved with negotiating your contract with
AEGLive?
A Yes. We were at a standstill about the contract being signed -- about my being engaged
to work -- because AEG was at a deadlock with my agent. So Michael spoke to them.
Q AEG didnt want to pay you as much as Mr. Jackson pays you?
A You could say that. The amount definitely was not inline with my standard operating
cost.
Q Did Mr. Jackson speak to AEG on your behalf?
A He asked them to pay my standard cost.

Q So Mr. Jackson solved the problem?


A Yes.
Q Did you get the amount you wanted?
A It was fair.
Q We have been talking about preparations at Center Staging and private rehearsals with
Mr. Jackson. Now lets talk about the complaint and conversation with production about Mr.
Jackson missing rehearsals at the Forum and Staples Center, okay?
A Yes.
Q So do you know why Mr. Jackson missed rehearsals?
A No.
Q You just knew he was not showing up, correct?
A Yes.
Panish: Objection. Payne answers anyway. Judge tells him not to answer.
AEG Stebbins suggests the answer.
Panish: Objection. Payne is made to wait from answering by the judge.

Q Mr. Payne, had you asked why Mr Jackson why he was not at rehearsals?
A No.
Q Did you still see Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.
Q How did he seem to you?
A He was busy with his work. He wasnt just working with the crew and production on
This Is It. He was also working on an album and a book. And other things to go into his book.
Q So he was not just working on the This Is It Tour, is that correct?
A Correct.
Q You say yesterday that Mr. Jackson was tired. Do you know why?
Panish: Objection. Judge: Overruled.

A Michael explained to me he had trouble sleeping. But he was excited about touring
again, that was it.
Q During this time period did you notice Mr. Jackson losing weight?
A Michael was always thin, from the time I met Michael in April I noticed he was thinner.
How much he may have lost from April to June, I dont know.
Q Did you talk to Mr. Jackson about his possibly having lost some weight?

A Yes, I told him: Youre looking thin. He said: Well, I'm getting down to my fighting
weight.
Q Did you doubt what he told you?
A No. He was always honest with me. I had no reason to doubt him.
Q How did he seem at rehearsals?

A Some days better than others in his productivity and energy level. He was mainly
excited. He had good days and bad days.

Q Did you ever see him sick during this time period?

A Yes, one day in particular near the end or our process. He was cold. He ultimately needed
a blanket and heater to be comfortable in rehearsal. Um. I think the frustration and desire to get
everything together had him on edge. But I took it that he was probably fighting cold. But Im
not certain.

Q Other than that one time, did Mr. Jackson ever show those symptoms again?
A Not as extreme as that.
Q So it did not happen again?

A No. Sometimes he was tired and lethargic and had to be, not convinced, but supported
throughout rehearsals.

Q How many times did Mr. Jackson miss rehearsals?
A Not many.
Q Less the five times?
A Maybe about five.

Q Were these times throughout the whole period of preparations for the tour? What period
of time was this?
Panish: Objection.

Q Were these times in June or through the entire period of This Is It rehearsals?

A Not many more then 5 times during the company rehearsals with the whole group. April,
May and June.

Q Other then that, were there any times when Mr. Jackson could not perform at all?

A I know there was a time when Kenny Ortega sent Michael home. I dont know the
reasoning. There was no other time. That was the only time.
Q Was it the same thing with needing a blanket and heater?
A I dont recall.
Q Could it have been the same night?
A Im not certain.
(Stebbins exhibits an email)

Q This email was forwarded to you on June 14
th
from Mr. Ortega?
A Um. I believe so. It says to Travis, sure.
Q Did you receive this June 14
th
?
A Yes.

Q Okay. I want to ask you some questions about it. The second page. Mr. Ortega writes to
Mr. Gongaware: Were you aware that MJ's doctor didn't permit him to attend rehearsal
yesterday? Are Randy and Frank aware of this? Please have them stay on top of his health
situation. Without invading MJ's privacy, it might be good idea to talk to his doctor to make sure
everything MJ requires is in place, who is responsible for MJ getting proper
nourishment/vitamins/therapy everyday? Personally, I feel he should have a top Nutritionist and
Physical Therapist working with him on a regular basis. The demand on this guy are mentally
and physically extraordinary! The show requirements exhaust our 20 year olds. Please don't
underestimate the need to stay on top of this.
Do you recall seeing this email?
A Yes.

Q Did you agree with Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson should have nutritionist and therapist?
A Yes, I know there was a chef who spent a lot of time at the residence. But theres another
part of that. When traveling, there is full kitchen staff that travels with us. Michael would have a
special chef dedicated to him only. During the rehearsals in L.A. that wasnt that case.

Panish: Objection. Judge: Strike last remark.

Q Did you discuss a physical therapist with Mr. Jackson?

A We spoke because Im a fan of massage and I suggested to Michael that maybe he should
consider that. He didnt want that. He thought it would be a violation of his personal space. We
arranged for a physical therapist who treats at the Olympian Games to tend to Michael, give him
vitamins. That type of thing. He was from Utah. Kenny has a relationship with this man, he
called him. Kenny worked on the opening ceremony at the Olympics. But we knew Michael was
not going to go through with it. We could tell by his facial expression.

Q So you tried to get this therapist for Mr. Jackson and he didnt want it, correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall if it was before or after this email chain that you saw Mr. Jackson that one
time with a blanket and heater?
A I think it was -- I believe Michael would have been with the blanket and heater after this
email.
Q Do you know what date that was?
A Im not sure.
(Stebbins exhibits another email)

Q This email is from Mr. Gongaware and reads: Frank and I have discussed it already and
have requested a face-to-face meeting w/ the doctor. We want to remind (Murray) that it is AEG,
not MJ, who is paying his salary. We want to remind him what is expected of him,This shows that
it was forwarded to you, correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you have an understanding of what this email refers to?

A I understand that it was a meeting requested with Dr. Murray for Monday. And the next
line I took to understand that AEG was paying Dr. Murrays salary, not Michael.

Q Did you have any conversations with anyone regarding this email?
A No. It wasnt necessary.
Q Did you think it related to Mr. Ortegas email from June 14
th
?

A To my understanding, Dr. Murray was there to oversee everything, not any specific
things. He was in charge of Michael. I had no reason to question that. I did not assume. I thought
that the doctor that had been selected to work with Michael was top notch.

Q When was the first time you met Dr. Murray?


A I was introduced to him by Michael at the house in Carolwood. I was going up the steps
from basement dance studio to the ground level and Dr. Murray was going downstairs. Michael
introduced us.

Q How did Mr. Jackson introduce you?
A This is Dr Murray my doctor.
Q Did you ever go into Mr. Jacksons bedroo on the upper floors?
A No.
Q Did Mr. Jackson confide in you about medical care?
A No.
Q Did you have an understanding of Dr. Murrays role with Mr. Jackson?

A Yes it was my understanding he was there to oversee everything to do with Michael, like
it states in his job description.

Q After you saw Mr. Jackson in June at the Forum, at some point did you move to the
Staples Center?
A Yes.
Q Was Mr. Jackson ill at the Forum or the Staples Center?
A I believe at Staples Center.

(Stebbins shows This Is It work schedule calendar)

Q This says the rehearsals in June were for the first week at the Forum, the second week at
the Forum, and the last week at the Staples Center, right?
A Yes.
Q And Mr. Jackson passed away on June 25
th?
A Yes.
Q And you were only rehearsing at the Staples Center during that last week?
A Yes. According to this, yes.
Q Did you meet Dr. Murray again?
A. Yes
Q. When?

A I believe it was at the Staples Center. I was leaving for the night. Well it was before
leaving rehearsals for the night. I just saw Dr. Murray show up. I said: Good evening.

Q And when was that?


A I believe it was at the Staples Center, in the hallway

Q In the last week of Mr. Jacksons life, the final rehearsals were June 23
rd
and 24
th
, correct?
A Yes.

(Stebbins exhibits another email)
Q Within this email chain, lets look at the date, it is June 22
nd
.
A. Yes I dont know the day of week
Q.-- Monday.
A. Okay.
Q. And Is this another set of your notes?
A Yes.
Q Ermm do you recall this meeting on June 22
nd
, meeting with
A. Meeting ermmm
Panish: Objection. Leading and Suggestive.

Q What is this email in reference to?
A These are notes I took at the Carolwood residence, asking to please give them to Mr
Jackson at his earliest convenience.

Q You made these notes at rehearsal? What do you mean?
A I remember what happened, but not the details.
Q And do you recall whether Mr. Jackson was ill on this day?

A No. I dont. He could have been, but if he was ill the session wouldnt have happened.

Q So Mr Jackson was not ill on June 22
nd
?
A No probably not the 22
nd
.
Q You said at some time Mr. Jackson had a cold?

A Yes if someone has a blanket wrapped around them. I would think it was flu like
symptoms.


Q Did Mr. Jackson appear flu like to you on June 22
nd
?
A Not as bad as he did when he needed to be seated by a heater with the blanket.
Q Did he perform the show through rehearsal?
A Parts.
Q How much?

A Not exactly sure how much. But I can say we intended to do a piece of the show that
night. You perfect chunks, bits of the production at a time. So he was able to do bits of those
chunks.

Q Do you remember if Mr Jackson rehearsed on June 23
rd
?
A The songs
Q Yes
A I dont remember.
Q Was it a full show or half a show?
A I cant speak certainly about that.
Q How was Mr. Jacksons performance?

A He was in working process. Not show standard. He was reading, was processing. I didnt
expect him to be performing as if he were in front of a crowd because he wasnt.

Q Did he kick in later?

A The performance would float. Some days were good, some days were not good. The last
two days were good.

Q Did he seem happy?
A Yes.
Q Would you describe his performance as doing wonderfully well?
A I thought he was on his way to the goals he set for himself.
Q Did you have any doubts about Michael Jacksons ability to perform the shows?
A No.
Q Did you feel anything was wrong with him?
A All I saw was improvement and that we were getting closer to the goals.
Q Was he noticeably good?
A He had improved then what he was in the past.
Q Did you know what would happen the next day?

A Of course not.
Q I know this is difficult. Can you say how you found our about Mr. Jacksons passing?

A I was headed to my 2pm rehearsal with Michael at Carolwood. I was on Highland
Avenue and I got a call from my mother saying she saw reports on the news. I told her: Im on
my way to rehearsal and Im sure everything is fine. As I got closer, I heard an announcement on
the radio. I called Staples Center and spoke to Stacy. I asked her if anything was up. She said no
were rehearsing. I continued to drive to Carolwood. Then I got a call before arriving at the
residence, saying there was an emergency at the house and to go to the Staples Center, not to the
house. So I went to Staples. We were rehearsing Smooth Criminal. We were optimistic of his
arrival. The staff were waiting to for any information. I remember Kenny got several calls. On
the last call from Randy and Paul, I remember Kenny saying: Tell me something that will make
me know it's you and that this is true. Well apparently he got recognitions on the phone. I
remember him collapsing in his seat and crying.

Q Did you have any idea what was going on?
A No.
Q Did you ever see Mr. Jackson drink alcohol?
A No.
Q Did you ever see Mr. Jackson take any prescription medications?
A No.
Q Did you ever observe Mr Jackson appear to you to be under the influence?
A Yes.
Q When?
A Sometimes in rehearsal Michael would appear -- you know, just a little loopy. I thought
he was being assisted or under the influence of something, mostly when he would come to
rehearsals from the dermatologist.

Q Mr. Jacksons dermatologist, is that Dr. Klein?
A Thats the only one I know of. And a couple of times Michael appeared groggy in the
morning. I put it down to that he was just waking up, from sleeping.

Q How many times did Mr. Jackson appear under the influence after his dermatology
appointments?
A 3 or 4 times.
Q Do you remember when?

A One day in particular, I dont remember which day. I remember Andre Crouch, his
vocalist teacher had come to a meeting. Prior to that meeting, Michael seemed a little not
himself.

Q Was this at Center Staging or the Forum?
A It was at Center Staging.

Q You say 3 or 4 times a week. Did you think Mr. Jackson had a problem prescription
medication?

A No.
Q Did you think he had just come from a procedure?
A Yes.
Panish: Objection.
Q What was your understanding?

A My understanding was that because he was returning to the stage, Michael was
undergoing personal cosmetic procedures, so he could feel good about himself and do a great
job.

Q Did you feel Mr. Jackson probably or had a dependency to prescription medication?


A I didnt see it as a problem.
Q You were not concerned this may be a problem?
A No.
Q Lets go back to your preparations for This Is It. You talked about the Drill?
A Yes.
Q You worked on it?
A Yes.

Q Im going to show you a video clip from TII. It shows two men in dark clothes doing drill
training. Where were you when this was filmed?

A Culver City Studio.
Q When was this filmed?
A June 2009.
Q What were you doing?
A The piece to insert into the footage for This Is It background. .............
...............................................................................
Q Was this in early June?

A Probably. May. I know in order to do this amount of work, it couldnt have been that
much after the first week in June.

Q The shows date stamp says June 4
th.
A Okay.

(Stebbins plays clip from This Is It, scene shows members of the company talking, saying:
Michaels coming. Shows Michael enter in black jacket -- talking about the drill. He counts
off: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Michael is showing the company how to do the drill. Payne is in the
clip)

Q Is that you with the white on your sleeves?
A Yes.
Q Is this you and Mr. Jackson working on the drill?
A Yes.

(Stebbins shows more footage from This Is It of Michael and the others doing the Drill,
showing the green screen. Now shows a bit of on stage footage -- whose bad. Jumps from
scene to scene)

Q Is that you and Mr. Jackson putting it together?
A Yes.
Q There are changes of scene?

A Yes. The idea was to show various days, and over days, so you can see the number
happening.

Q Were you involved in putting together the This Is It footage?
A Yes.
Q Was the footage altered in any way to look better?

A No. It was not altered, but we would edit it. I picked MJs best shots, that I thought he
would appreciate.

Q Was This Is It an accurate performance, did it represent the clips as they were on that day,
was it real?
A Yes.
Q Was it fake?

A No, no. I wanted to go back and reshoot certain things. Kenny said: No, that wouldnt be
a documentary. So some things were not my favorite shots, but they were included. It was real.

Stebbins: I want to show you one more clip.
(Stebbins plays This Is It clip with Michael and Orianthi -- Michael singling a bit of They
Dont Care About Us and History, wearing red shirt and jacket)

A Sometimes its difficult to identify where and when the shot was taken, the location.
Q. Can you identify where, this footage was filmed?
A Its not at Center Staging. Hmmm.
Q Is it at the Staple Center?

A Umm. Can I see more and try to tell you the venue. (long pause) Im not certain where
this was done.

Q Was that Mr. Jackson performing?
A Yes.
Cross examination by Jackson attorney, Panish.

Q In the This Is It footage weve just looked at, was there a track of a song playing?
A Define track.
Q Music?
A Yes.
Q So Michael Jackson was not singing and dancing?
A I dont understand what youre saying.
Q Was there a music or dance track playing?
A Do you mean a track of music? Thats different, sir.

Q Sir, Michael Jackson never performed the entire show all the way through, correct?
A Correct.
Q And many had concerns he would not be able to perform the whole show, correct?

A Some may have, yes.
Q Before you came here, did you view anything?
A Yes, I viewed my deposition.
Q Who gave your deposition to you?
A I purchased it.
Q From where did you purchase your deposition?
A From the entity who recorded it.
Q Were you under oath in your deposition?
A Yes.
Q And you told the truth?
A Yes, I did my best.

Q What else did you do or watch other than your deposition before testifying today?

A Nothing.
Q Did you met anyone?
A No.
Q Did you talk to Stacy Walker?
A Yes.
Q Did you talk to her about her testimony?
A Of course not.
Q What was your impression of Michael Jackson? What was he like?
A He loved being a father.
Q What did you say, he loved being a father?

A Yes, I saw the beauty of their relationship. Their loyalty to their father and his to them.
Michael enlightened them and taught them. When we rehearsed, we had meals together. We had
numerous lunches at Carolwood.

Q Did Michael Jackson want to eat with his kids?
A When we were rehearsing, we all ate together.
Q You ate lunch with Prince, Paris and Blanket?
A Sometimes.
Q Did you see Prince interact with his father?
A Yes.
Q Tell us about their relationship. What were your impressions?

A I thought it was awesome. I was very proud to see Michael as such a loving father. I was
proud to see their relationship. It was great to see how they interacted. I mean, Prince wants to be
a director. So Michael would have conversations with him about that process -- point out things
to him during rehearsals that he should remember.

Q So you saw Mr. Jackson give guidance and mentor his children?
A Yes.
Q Did you know that Mr. Jackson wanted to get into making movies?
A He was in movies for years.
Q Did you know that he wanted AEG to help him get into making movies?
A I heard about that, but I never knew the details.


Judge: Did you learn that he was going to get AEG to help him make movies?
Payne: I dont know that.


Q Who did you hear about Mr. Jackson going to make movies with AEG help?
A From Mr. Jackson.
Q Describe Paris Jacksons relationship with her father. What did you observe?

A Paris was very protective. She was a very attentive young lady who was very, very smart,
very astute. She was so impressive. She had full knowledge of the day-to-day operations, from
the time of lunch and what it was going to be, she was hands on -- far beyond her age. She was
aware of not only her father but also her brothers needs. She had a lot of responsibility, which I
think she welcomed. She enjoyed it. She was the female of the house. She really loved her father.
At that time, she was coming to find out his global successes and presence. So she would wear
her Michael Jackson t-shirt, Michael Jackson bag and Michael Jackson headband.
Q Describe Pariss irresponsibleness.

A She was always really the most vocal of the three children and was very concerned about
many of the details of the house, was the temperature correct, what do you want to eat. She just
handled a lot for her young age. She was very nurturing. She would bless the food when we ate
together. I cant say enough about her.

Q Was Paris a Daddy's girl?
A Yes, I believe so.
Q Was she always one step away from her dad?
A Yes.
Q Would Blanket be there at rehearsal also?
A Yes.
Q Would Mr. Jackson talk to him during rehearsal?
A Yes. He was quiet -- but always right there with his dad.
Q Mr. Jackson would guide and mentor his son, Blanket?

A Yes. The relationship between Michael as a father with his children is one that every
child hopes for. I would as a person -- I would be very grateful to have a father like that.

Q Would you agree they have suffered tremendous loss?
A Of course.
Q You videotaped footage of Michael Jackson being with his children?
A Yes.
Q Where is that footage now?
A I dont know.

Q Didnt you say that you locked it in a vault?


A No, I said I had it. Not locked. Just in my personal collection.

Q Is it true that you always carried a video camera with you and that you shot videos of the
This Is It rehearsal?

A Yes.
Q Did you have a video recording you made of This Is It?
A Yes.

Q That video recording -- that video footage of This Is It rehearsal -- that was confiscated
from you when Mr. Jackson died, correct?

A Yes, the footage.
Q AEG took away all the footage from you? And you never got it back?
A Yes, they used it.
Q AEG took away all the footage from you before they made the movie?
A Yes.
Q And you dont know what footage AEG removed?
AEG: Objection.

Q Lets move onto an exhibit.
AEG: Objection. Witness is not copied ccd in this email.
Panish: My exhibit evidence would not have been accepted into evidence had he not been
called in to testify.
Judge: Sustained.

Q Sir, did you ever learn that Randy Phillips was told by Paul Gongaware to make sure to
take out clips where Michael looked too skinny, and other parts
AEG: Objection.
Q Did you ever learn who the top dog is at AEG?

A Yes, he was higher up.


Q Who was that then?
A Philip Anschutz.
Q And directly below Philip Anschutz is Randy Phillips?
A Yes.
Q Who did Randy Phillips report to?
A To my understanding, Mr. Anschutz.

Q Before you began editing, did you know that Randy Phillips told Paul Gongaware to take
out a scene of Michael Jackson because he looked way too thin and skeletal?

A No, I was not.
Q Did you know AEG removed footage before you began editing This Is It?
A No. I want to speak -- I want to say

Panish: Im done with that question.

Q Did Michael Jackson look skeletal?
A No.
Q Do you know if Paul Gongaware removed footage of Michael Jackson looking skeletal?
A No.

Q Lets go back to Mr. Jacksons family. You testified that you and Mr. Jackson frequently
talked about your mothers, is that right?

A Yes.
Q Are you close to your mom?
A Yes.

Q Tell us about your observations and impressions of Michael Jacksons relationship with
his mother.

A Its not a secret. He loved her very much. They were close.
Q How do you know that?

A Its common knowledge that Michael loved his mother. We would speak at rehearsals --
about the sacrifices our parents made which bought us here.

Q Was Mr. Jackson a humanitarian?
A Yes.
Q What did he do as a humanitarian?

A He still holds the Guinness World Record for donating the most money to charity of any
entertainer. Many of his songs had to do with bringing awareness, about the planet. The needs of
the planet and people around the world. He was shining light on problems and what he could do
to help. To get involved to effect positive change.

Q Michael Jackson was always a dedicated humanitarian?
A It was what I saw. I felt it was his passion.
Q Why did Michael Jackson want to do this tour?
A So he could unite people around the world.
Q Did you testify truthfully under oath in your deposition?
A Yes.

Q Didnt you testify that Mr. Jackson was giving this tour to enhance and enrich people
around the world?

A Yes.
Q This was his platform to remind people of our responsibility, correct?

A Yes. Yes, among other things. He never changed. That was always the basis for it. Im
sure over the years there were other things he wanted to pay attention to. Heal the world,
championing of the planet.

Q Are you familiar with We Are The World?
A Yes.
Q What is it?
A Its a composition by Lionel Richie and Michael Jackson.
Q For what?
A To bring aid around the world.
Q Who worked and sang on the song?


A Michael, Lionel, Quincy Jones, Diana Ross, Stevie Wonder, Bruce Springsteen, Ray
Charles, Willie Nelson, Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick, Kenny Rogers, Paul Simon, Cindy
Lauper, Kim Carnes, Huey Lewis, Steve Perry, Bob Dylan --

Q Many artists?
A Yes.
Q The song raised money for starving people in Africa, correct?
A Yes.

Q Also, one reason Mr. Jackson was doing the This Is It tour was because he wanted his
kids to experience the tour, is that right?

A Yes.
Q He was excited to have his children be a part of the experience, correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you know Karen Faye?
A Yes.
Q Karen Faye created designs for the performances?
A She was makeup. She created makeup designs.
Q Did you testify that Ms. Faye created designs for performances?
A Im confused.

Q When you did your deposition you stated that Karen Faye created designs for other
performers, but particularly Mr. Jackson.

A Yes. Just clearly they are makeup designs, not clothes.
Q Was Ms. Faye always there with Michael Jackson for This Is It?
A Yes.
Q Was she there at the preparations if Mr. Jackson wasnt there?
A Yes.
Q They spent lots personal time?
A Yes.
Q They had a long time personal relationship?
A Yes, many years.
Q She could say things you could not because of her closeness?
A Yes.

Q In June, Ms. Faye made you aware she had became concerned about how Mr. Jackson
looked, correct?

A Yes. She was concerned. She came to me in an aggressive way. I told her: Anything you
want to voice, to say -- talk to Kenny.

Q Who did Kenny Ortega report to?
A He reported to Michael. MJ had a partnership with AEG, he worked with AEG.
Q You say partnership. Who was partners with AEG?
A Kenny was the producer. I dont know the working relationship.
Q Yesterday you said partnership. Were you all partners? Did you share profits?
A No.
Q You were paid by AEG?
A Yes.
Q Paid by AEG?
A Yes.
Q You were contracted by AEG?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Gongaware was the producer of show?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Phillips was the producer of show?
A Yes.

Q You talked about the higher ups in production. Is that Mr. Orgeta, Mr. Gongaware and Mr.
Phillips?

A Yes.
Q Anyone else?
A I like to consider myself, but wasnt in production.
Q Who could fire you, AEG?
A Im sure.
Q Is that what your contract states?
A Yes.

Q Karen Faye had concerns about Mr. Jacksons well-being and you didnt do anything?

A I said to her -- because we were in the middle of rehearsal -- I told her: If you feel its
serious than converse with Kenny.

Q Did you know if she went to Mr. Ortega?
A I dont know.
Q You have seen emails of the discussion?
A Yes.
Q But you said you didnt know if she went to Mr. Ortega?
A I said I didnt know.
Q Did she go to Mr. Ortega?
A Yes.
Q And you didnt do anything but tell Ms. Faye to speak to Kenny Ortega?

A She wanted to call a doctor. There was a doctor already there. Im a creative person. I
was working on the show which I had been hired to focus on.

Q On June 22
nd
, Ms. Faye was concerned abut Mr. Jackson, correct?
A I dont know the date.
Q She could look at Mr. Jackson and see signs you couldnt?
A Yes.
Q She was frustrated?
A Yes.
Q She told you?
A Yes.
Q Did you feel everything was being done for Mr. Jackson?

A No, I wanted him to have a physical therapist, nutritionist, massage -- to have his family
around. This was a different scenario for Michael. This was the first time MJ was working with
an entity like AEG.

Q Mr. Jackson had previously always had full control over production?
A Yes, with his companies. Ive always been hired by MJJ Productions before.

Q This was first time you were hired by other company in relation to a Michael Jackson
production?
A Yes.
Q Who put up the money for this production?

A AEG.
Q You were paid by AEG, correct?
A Yes.
Q After Michael Jackson died, Karen Faye sent you a text message?
A I dont know.

Q You dont recall that Ms. Faye sent you a text message and asked you why you were lying
to the media about Michael after he died?

A I never received it.
Q Are you denying it?

A Im saying there were many text messages. For Karen Faye to say I lied -- if I got it, I
erased it.

Q Do you deny receiving a text message from Ms. Faye after Michael Jackson died? asking
you: Why are you lying to the media about Michaels condition?

A I dont know if I received it. If you show it to me, I will be happy to address it.
Q Do you have a memory of responding to Ms. Fayes text message?
A I certainly dont remember. I dont know.
Q You deny responding to Ms. Fayes text message?
A I dont know if it happened.
Q Do you know who Charles Claypal is?
A Yes.

Q Did Mr. Claypal have a different opinion then you of Mr. Jacksons physical condition?

A I dont know.

(Break)

Q Sir, This Is It was released after Michael Jackson died, correct?
A Yes.
Q Was this is first time you were the associate producer on a production?
A Yes, I was on the documentary.

Q This Is It was released after Michael Jackson died. Were you still upset about Michael
dying?
A Of course, Im still upset now.
Q Did you go the to big This Is It premiere?
A Yes.
(Panish exhibits a photo of Payne at the This Is It premiere)


Q Is this you?
A Yes.
Q Where was this taken?
A This is at the Staple Arena.
Q And this is you on the red carpet?

A This is going in to watch the film.


Q And you were one of the celebrities?
A I worked on the film.
(Panish exhibits a photograph of Payne walking the red carpet at This Is It premiere)

Q Is that the same location, the same evening with you striking a dance pose?
A You know, its a natural way to take a picture.
Q You were happy at the premiere?
A Yes.

(Panish exhibits a photograph of Payne and Ortega at the DVD launch in Australia)

Q Is that you going around the world to promote the film?
A To be clear, MJs dancers and I did some promotions for the DVD.
Q Were you paid for doing those promotions?
A I think so. Kenny joined us on the last leg.
(Panish exhibits a photograph of Dileo, Phillips and Ortega at This Is It premiere)

Q Whose is this?
A Frank Dileo, Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega at the L.A. Premiere.
Q They look pretty happy about this?

A Yes. You know we where just happy to put the worst behind us, it had been very difficult,
things were finally coming together

Q On the far left is Kenny Ortega, and the man with the big cigar is Frank Dileo, correct?

A Yes, rest his soul.

Q Were you present when Michael Bush told Frank Dileo about Michael Jackson having
lost weight?

A Yes.
Q You heard them talking about Mr. Jackson not eating and being thin?
A Yes.

Q Was Mr. Dileo paid by AEG?


A I dont know.
Q Did you hear Mr. Dileo say to get Michael Jackson a bucket of chicken?
A (laughing) No.
Q You think that is funny?
A Well it is now, the way you ask it.
Q Ms. Sankey was associate producer on This Is It?
A Yes for the concert tour.
Q What were you the associate producer for on This Is It?
A The documentary film.
Q How does that rank?
A I dont know. To me was just a title. The same objective. All equal.
Q So you guys were equal, you and Ms. Sankey?

A In our creative endeavors MJ created a family. Even though the same title was given to
me and her, Ms. Sankey had different responsibility.

Q She was close to Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.
(Panish exhibits emails)

Q Lets look at the beginning of this email.
A Okay.
Q This is dated June 14
th
, correct?
A Yes.
Q You were sent a copy of this email?
A I dont see my name, if you say so.

Q You were just talking to defense counsel, Ms. Stebbins about emails forwarded to you.
Did you get this email?

A Yes.
Q You just said you didnt receive it.
A Im just replying. Im on the chain.
Q What does it say here?
A Travis.
Q So all those emails were forwarded to you?

A Yes.
Q Did you read them?
A Yes.
Q This one is dated June 13
th
. Who is Brother Michael?
A MJs personal valet, handler, right hand man.
Q It reads: Brother Michael called. MJ taking sick day, correct?
A Yes.
Q It says: Dr. Murrays orders, correct?
A Yes.

Q As part of your responsibility as associate producer for This Is It, you have told those
above you this information, right?

A I dont see who -- I may very well have if I got information that Michael was not
coming, I would have alerted the others.

Q Okay. Lets go to Dr. Murray didnt want Mr. Jackson to come to rehearsals. Mr.
Gongaware wanted Dr. Murray to stay on top of Michael Jacksons health, correct?

A Thats what the email says.
Q Are you saying that is not true?
A Everyone wanted to stay on top of MJs health.

Q You mentioned you wanted vitamins, a physical therapist, a nutritionist. Kai Chase is not
a nutritionist, is she?

A No, shes a chef.
Q Who was the nutritionist for Mr. Jackson?
A There wasnt one.
Q Who was the physical therapist for Mr. Jackson?
A There wasnt one. I wanted one I know whos worked with Olympians.
Q Would you agree that dancers are much like athletes?
A Yes.

Q Would you agree dancers and athletes are much the same in their need for stamina,
physical endurance -- in their physically grueling routines?


A Yes.
Q As a dancer you push your body to all extremes, correct?
A Yes.
Q You can have injuries as a dancer?
A Yes.
Q Injuries that need treatment?
A Yes.
Q Can taking drugs affect performance?
A Yes. Thats safe to say.
(Panish exhibits email)


Q In this email dated June 14
th
from Mr. Ortega to Mr. Gongaware it says: Please don't
underestimate the need to stay on top of this. Do you have an understanding of what Mr. Ortega
was referring to?

A Yes, I understand he wants a top nutritionist and physical therapist for Michael.
Q And it says here: Please have them stay on top of his health. Do you remember this?

A Yes.
Q Mr. Orgeta was concerned about Mr. Jacksons physical condition?
A Yes.


(Panish exhibits email)


Q Then we have this email from the same email chain from Mr. Gongaware: We want to
remind him that it's AEG not MJ who's paying his salary. Do you remember this?

A Yes.
Q Do you think that was heavy handed?
AEG: Objection. Judge: Rephrase.

Q From the same email: Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-
face meeting with the doctor. Do you remember this?

A Yes.

Q Again, Mr. Gongaware was stating: We want to remind him, Dr. Murray, that it's AEG
not MJ who's paying his salary, correct?

A Yes.
Q Just like you are paid by AEG, correct?
A Yes.
Q The email states: We want to remind him what is expected of him, correct?
A Yes.
AEG: Objection.

Q Of course I mean, the email reads: We want him to understand what is expected of him?
Do you have an understanding of what this is referring to?

A I was not privy to the details of what was expected of Dr. Murray. So I dont have an
understanding what was expected of Dr. Murray except of being a physician.

Q Do you have an understanding what AEG was to gain from their investment?
A No, thats not to my understanding as an artist.
Q Who was in charge of the show?

A AEG was the producer and promoter. Certainly MJ was the star and had to be happy.

Q You have to make sure the star is okay. If not, you lost money, correct?
A Perhaps. Im not privy to those details.

Q There was lots going on. If AEG doesnt have Mr. Jackson best interests, they are not
protecting their investment, correct?

AEG: Objection.


Q You previously stated that Mr. Phillips was coming every day to watch out for his
investment, didnt you?

A I may have. Im not privy to that.

Q Sir, did you testify under oath that Mr. Phillips was coming every day to the This Is It
rehearsals to watch out for the investment of their company?

A I dont understand why investment is a bad thing. You make -- I dont have dog in this
race, Im not masking anything. When you do this, its pretty aggressive. I feel like you are
cornering me sometimes.

Q June 19
th
. You told us all about the events of 19
th
, correct?
A Yes.
Q You sure about this?
A Yes.
Q Lets take a look at that. Lets put that up. We are talking about the truth, right?
A Yes.
(Panish exhibits This Is It rehearsal schedule)

Q So yesterday you told us about this exhibit. You told us yesterday -- you were talking
about choreographing Jam and They Dont Care About Us with Mr. Jackson, right?

A Yes.

Q You talked about how there was an introduction Drill you worked on together with Mr.
Jackson, right?

A Yes.
Q You worked on singing together, correct?
A Yes.
Q Then you were shown this schedule, correct?
A Yes.
Q You were asked if you worked a 3-hour block that day, is that correct.

A Yes.

Q You said you worked together for 3 hours, and then took a break for 10 minutes, is that
correct?

A Yes.
Q You said you and Mr. Jackson were up on your feet, going through dance steps, figuring
everything out, correct?

A Yes.
Q Sir, Michael Jackson was not there that day.

A I said based on this schedule, this is what I was responding to. From 12 to 3 we were
expected to rehearse. (Side note: please read answers from yesterday by Payne, he did NOT say
based on this schedule)

Q You said you were there at rehearsal on June 19
th
. I am sure the schedule said it.
A If MJ wasnt there -- I dont have any reason not to believe you.
Q You told the jury Mr. Jackson was there, based on this schedule.

A If there is a discrepancy thats fine. If it was on the schedule -- if you are saying he
wasnt there, Ill take your word for it, but --

Q But you cant tell us if you were there every day?
A I was there every day. I said Michael wasnt there every day.

Q You testified that you worked together with Mr. Jackson on that day. You didnt say based
on this schedule, did you?

A Thats fine, I was talking from the schedule. If you say MJ was not there -- sometimes he
didnt show up.

Q Do you know Dr. Klein?
A Yes.
Q Did you get injection of versed from Dr. Klein?


Sidebar

(Break)

After the lunch break and prior to continued cross examination, there was a huge
argument between AEG and Jackson attorneys. AEG attempting to suppress evidence,
citing medical records. Jackson attorney, Brian Panish wants to show the date of Michael
Jacksons visit to Arnold Klein -- to dispute testimony by Travis Payne. Judge Palalzuelos is
allowing the evidence to be shown.

Once the questioning began Payne repeatedly asked AEGs lawyer, Stebbins/Putnam for
assistance..They could do nothing to help but objected, all were overruled



Continued cross examination by Panish.

Q During the break, AEG counsel showed you your prior testimony, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Why did they show your prior testimony?
A To help me.
Q Why, cant you remember what you said?
A No, my testimony varied.
Q So you talked to AEGs lawyer and they showed you?

A. Perhaps counsel can explain. I dont know where you are going with this.

Q. So AEG counsel showed you your deposition so that you can talk about it when you came
back here on the stand?


A Yes.
Q Because you cant remember?
A Its not that. Time has elapsed. I want to be clear about my testimony here.
Q How many pages of your previous testimony did they show you?
A Two.
Q Was one page about Mr. Gongaware and the emails?
A Sure. I believe it had to do with that.
Q What was the other page of your previous testimony just shown to you about?
A It had to do with rehearsal on the 19
th
.

Q So thats the rehearsal where Mr. Jackson was sent home and didnt rehearse, right?


A I dont know the time. I wanted to be clear about what we were -- we were going back
and forth, I wanted counsel to be clear so I know what


Q I want to ask you a question.
A Okay.


Q You testified yesterday that you went to Michael Jacksons Carolwood house on May 19
th

for a rehearsal. You testified that you and Mr. Jackson were practicing steps at his house, correct?


A Yes, we were in his basement dance studio.
Q On May 19
th
?
A Yes.
Q So yesterday under oath you testified -- lets go to that specific exhibit, okay?
A Okay.
Q Yesterday, defense counsel only showed you three schedules, right?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us if any of these occurred?
A No.
Q You cant tell us if you had rehearsals with Mr. Jackson?
A I was there.


Panish: Your Honor, please direct the witness to answer the question.
Judge asked witness to reply to questions put to him


Q Yesterday in your testimony, you didnt tell us you dont remember. You said: This is
what we did May 19
th
-- we had a 10 minute break, etc. Correct?

A Yes.
Q Sir, Mr. Jackson was not with you on May 19
th
, was he?
A No.

Q Because Mr. Jackson was at a doctors appointment having a procedure done, correct?


A If you're saying Mr Jackson wasnt there then I'm not disputing that. I dont know where
he was.


Q Yesterday you told us you were there rehearsing with Mr. Jackson on May 19
th
, and today
you tell us you were not. How is that?


A I was telling you based on the schedule I read. I dont know his personal schedule.

Q But you didnt say: I dont know where Mr Jackson was. You told us the specific dance
moves and performance numbers you rehearsed, you told us you took 10 minute breaks. right?

A Yes.

Q And that wasnt true. And now you say: I dont have a problem. I made a mistake. You
didnt have a problem yesterday saying that you were with Mr. Jackson rehearsing in his house
with him on May 19
th
, did you?

A No.


Panish: Lets take a look at the schedule of Mr. Jacksons medical record for that day.
(Panish exhibits the medical record from Kleins office)


Q The record shows Mr. Jackson was having a cyst removed during that time on May 19
th
.
Do you see that?

A Sure.
Q So he wasnt with you from 12pm to 3pm on May 19
th
. Does that refresh your memory?

A Yes.

Q Now. You previously testified that Mr. Jackson was there at rehearsal with you on June
22
nd
. Was he?

A I dont know

Q Didnt you tell us from that witness stand this morning that Mr. Jackson rehearsed with
you on June 22
nd
?

A Yes.


AEG: Objection. Overruled



Q Sir, just answer the question. Mr. Jackson had another medical appointment on June 22
nd
.
Do you see that?

A Okay. I dont know his personal schedule. I just work with him.
Q You were supposed to testify to the truth, correct?
A Yes.
Q So youre telling us your recollection is now the truth?
A We're human. Sometimes we make mistakes.

Q But you testified just this morning that you were with Mr. Jackson on those dates
rehearsing for the This Is It Tour, isnt that the truth?

A But now Im saying I was wrong. Im not disputing. Im just saying based on the
schedule you showed me, we rehearsed from 12pm to 3pm.


Putnam: I didnt show you a schedule stating that.
Payne: Well, the other counsel showed me.


Q So AEG counsel showed you a schedule with your hand notations on it -- and you agreed
with it?

A Yes.
Q It wasnt true, was it?
A Apparently at this particular time I made a mistake.
Q You were only shown 3 schedules, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you didnt tell us the truth on any of them, did you?

A If I was mistaken on Mr Jacksons whereabouts on those 3 -- if I made a mistake as to his
whereabouts, I can totally fess up to that.

Q Where are all your other schedules?
A I turned in everything before trial.
Q You dont have any other schedules?

A I didnt have every single one. All I had was tuned in at the beginning of the trial.

Q At the beginning of this trial?
A Yes, in my deposition.


Q You testified that you rehearsed 5 times a week with Mr. Jackson at his home. Thats not
true is it?

A We were scheduled to rehearse.
Q You were asked how often you DID rehearse, werent you?
A That was our schedule.

Q No. You were not asked if that was your schedule. You were asked how many times you
rehearsed with Mr. Jackson for the This Is It Tour, werent you?

A Our schedule was 5 times a week.


Panish: Your Honor, please ask the witness to answer the question.
AEG: Objection.
Judge: Move on.


Q Youve testified that Randy Phillips was almost always at rehearsals, correct?
A Yes.

Q Would it be true to say the Mr. Jackson was not required to come to rehearsals until the
entire company was ready?

A I dont think thats completely accurate.

Q Thats what I mean. It would not be completely accurate to say that Mr. Jackson was not
required to come to rehearsals until the entire company was complete, right?


AEG: Objection.

(Panish reads from Paynes transcript testimony from yesterday)

Panish: MJ wasnt due to come to rehearsal until the entire troop --------

AEG: Objection.


Q Is it truthful to say Mr. Jackson did not have to come to rehearsal?
A No, he had to come.

Q Is it true to say Mr. Jackson wasnt to come to rehearsal until everyone was ready for
him?

A No, he still had to come. There were other things he had to do.
Q Is it correct to say Mr. Jackson did not have to come to rehearsals?
A No, he needed to come to rehearsal. It was part of the job.

Q When you were asked by AEGs attorney whether you choreographed the Dangerous
Tour, you said you choreographed parts of the tour, correct?

A Yes.
Q When you choreograph something do you get credit?
A Yes, unless it was already credited. On the Dangerous tour, I added parts.

Q Let me ask you a question. You told us you choreographed the Dangerous tour, didnt
you?

A I added, I did not completely choreograph it.
Q Who got credit?
A. I dont know
Q You read the credit.
A. Ermmm
Q. Would Mr Ortega know who got the credits
A. Of course
Q Others got credit, not you, correct?
A Yes, whats that supposed to mean?
Q Did Lavelle Smith used to be your choreography partner?
A Yes.
Q. Now sir


Payne: Can I clarify that I joined the Dangerous tour when it was largely in progress. The
program was printed. When I joined, I did They Dont Care About Us and some other
parts. I contributed to the choreography.


Q Lets see what Mr. Ortega said regarding Dangerous tour credit. You rely on Mr. Ortega?

A Yes but he, like me, is human and can make mistakes.


(Panish shows exhibit of Dangerous tour program credit. Choreography by Michael


Jackson)
Payne says he was given credit


Q Have you ever got where you were credited?
A Yes, after the tour program was updated.
Q Where is the program that credits you for choreography?

A I never took credit. I was one of a choreography partnership. Its common knowledge
that I was one of the contributors.

Q Where is the manual you refer to where you got credit?
A It would have been in our travel itinerary.
Q Where was it printed?
A In Michaels History Tour travel itinerary.
Q Do you have a copy of that?
A Yes.
Q Will you bring it to court?
A Yes.
Q Lets go back to Mr. Phillips, okay?
A Yes.
Q You said he was there at rehearsals for This Is It every day?
A Yes.
Q And that was at the Forum?
A Correct.
Q You testified you believed that Mr. Phillips was a top dog in AEG, is that right?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Phillips watched over the investment?
A Yes.
Q And Mr. Phillips was there every day?
A Yes.

Q Mr. Gongaware was a top dog. He watched over everything -- expenses, investment?

A Yes.
Q Mr. Gongaware was aware of everything going on?
A I dont know what he was aware of.
Q Now May 14
th
. Lets look at Mr. Ortegas email.
A Okay.

(Panish exhibits email from Ortega to Gongaware, part of which reads: He has been slow at
grabbing hold of the work)


Q Now. Was it your understanding that Mr. Jackson was having a hard time picking up the
material?

A Where are you reading?
Q You were with Michael Jackson every day, correct?
A Yes, I was there.
Q You have knowledge of Mr. Jackson, correct?
A Sure.
Q Was it your understanding he was having a hard time picking up material?
A No.
Q Any material?
A Yes.

Q Kenny Ortega tells Paul Gongaware that Mr. Jackson is having a hard job grasping the
material, correct?

A Yes.
Q You dont disagree?
A I disagree partly.
Q So you are in a better position than Mr. Ortega to know that?
A Thats not what I said. ..


Objection Overruled
Panish Your honor, please instruct the witness to wait for the question.
Judge: Dont speak over the question.


Q Was Mr. Ortega in a better position then Travis Payne to assess whether Mr. Jackson was
having a hard job grasping the material?

A Thats fair, its his opinion.


Panish: You havent the answered the question.


Q Are you more knowledgeable than Mr. Ortega?
A Thats not what Im saying.
Q Who has more experience?
A Mr. Ortega.
Q Who has more knowledge?


A What are you talking about? In some regards I had more knowledge of choreography
than Mr. Ortega.

Q Were you concerned about Mr. Jacksons sudden weight change?
A Yes.
Q Were you concerned the sudden weight change was affecting him physically?
A Yes.
Q That was brought to your attention by Mr. Jacksons wardrobe person?
A I knew myself.

Q So you knew within the month of June that Mr. Jackson was showing sudden weight
change?

A Prior to June, I notice Mr. Jackson was thinner than I recognized him
Q You are not answering my question.

A Im telling you, When I met Michael in April he was thinner then he had beeninthe past

Q Im asking about sudden weight change.
A No, he was always thin.

Q Are you testifying you never saw sudden weight change during preparations for the This
Is It tour?

A No.
Q Did you see sudden weight change when preparing for This Is It tour?


Payne: YOUR Honor, it was during -- when you say sudden -- he was already thin.


Q Is it true sir, that you are stating in your testimony here that you never observed sudden
weight change in Mr. Jackson during the This Is It tour preparations?

A No, that is true.



Q You began working with AEG without a contract, correct?
A Unsigned.
Q You had an agreement with AEG that you would work without a signed contract?

A I dont know how to answer that.


Q I will read your deposition.

AEG: Objection.
Panish: I didnt get to ask the question before they objected.
AEG: He cant read the deposition out loud,
Judge: then ask him.

Q Sir, all your negotiations for employment on This Is It were done with producer
AEGLive? It was the first time in 30 years you were hired by an entity that was not MJJ
Productions, correct?

A Yes.
Q It was AEG who paid you?
A Yes.
Q You began work without a signed contract?
A Yes.
Q So you retroactively worked for AEG before you signed a contract?
A Yes.
Q You knew you were going to get a fair rate before signing?
A Yes.
Q So you worked, and then your contract was back dated to April 1, 2009, correct?
A I believe so.
Q Lets take a look at your contract with AEG, okay?
A Okay.

(Panish exhibits Payne/AEG contract)


Q Let me have you identify that. So you expected to be paid for work even though you
initially had no contract?

A Yes.
Q Is this your contract?
A Yes.
Q And for when is it dated?
A April 1
st
.

Q So your contract was approved -- it was passed, but you signed it way after, correct?

A Yes.
Q You got paid?
A Yes, after negotiations.


Q And the contract states that only AEG can terminate you -- stated in this paragraph in
your contract. Would you read that now?


(Panish shows Payne the contract)



A Okay.


Q Does that refresh your recollection, then?
A Yes. It says AEG can cancel the contract.
Q You submitted an invoice to be paid?
A My agent would have.
Q You said that you saw Dr. Murray in late May at the Carolwood house?
A Yes.

Q You testified that you were going upstairs as Dr. Murray was coming downstairs, correct?

A Yes.
Q You said Mr. Jackson told you: This is Dr. Murray, correct?
A Correct.

Q The 2
nd
time you saw Dr. Murray was the night before Mr. Jackson died, correct?

A I think so. In the hallway, passing each other.

Q You saw Dr. Murray the night before Mr. Jackson died in the hallway at the Staples
Center. You had concerns, correct?

A I wanted Michael to go home and go to sleep.

Q Isnt it true you told Mr. Ortega that Dr. Murray didnt look like a professional doctor?

A Yes.
Q Conrad Murray didnt look like a doctor to you, correct?
A Yes, he didnt look official.

Q You didn't feel he was an official doctor who should be working for Michael Jackson, is
that correct?

A At the time..
Q You did not know Dr. Murrays credentials?

A Not when he was working with Michael. I learned what they were after Michael passed.

Q Who told you after Michael Jackson died

A I learned about Conrad Murrays credentials during his trial? I was following the trial

Q. Did you learn Dr Murray was a cardiologist?
A. Yes, during the first trial

Q When you first heard reports that Mr. Jackson died of a heart attack, were you surprised
or not surprised?

A I didnt know Michael to have had heart problems.
Q You knew he had sleeping problems?
A Yes.

Q You knew Mr. Jackson was being treated by Dr. Murray for his sleeping problems?

A Yes.

Q It was widely known knowledge that Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems, correct?
A Yes.

Q It was widely known during Mr. Jacksons tours -- through the touring process, that Mr.
Jackson has trouble sleeping?
A Yes.

Q To your knowledge, Did Mr. Ortega know about Mr. Jacksons sleeping problems?
A Yes.

Q Based on your knowledge, would you believe that anyone from AEG could not know
about Mr. Jacksons sleeping problems?


AEG: Objection.

Q You know Mr. Gongaware?
A Yes.

Q Did You have an understanding that Mr. Gongaware knew about Mr. Jacksons sleeping
problems?

AEG: Objection.

Q Sir, as far as you know, it was well known within the business that Mr. Jackson had
sleeping problems, correct?

A I dont know how well known it was. I think many people knew. Michael told me.

Q And you knew that before the This Is It Tour preparations?
A Yes.

Q And to your knowledge, did Mr. Gongaware know Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems?

AEG: Objection.

A NO!

Q Lets play your depostions, you said that you gave your deposition under oath, correct?

A Yes.
Q You signed your deposition under the penalty of perjury, correct?
A Yes.

(Panish plays videotape of Paynes deposition)

Q Sir, do you know that if you change your testimony it could hurt your credibility?
A Yes.

Q You knew once you made your deposition that you could review it and change any
possible discrepancies in it before coming here to testify today? You knew you had a chance to
make any changes, correct?

A Well I just got it a few days ago. Thats why I wanted to read it, Im trying to make every
effort I can to be truthful as I can.

Q You were deposed in January 2013. You said you watched it yourself, correct?
A Yes, I watched Sunday.

Q And in that deposition there was a stipulation that the deposition be delivered to your
lawyer for you to review. They drafted a updated copy, then sent it to you again, correct?

A Yes.
Q. You knew Mr Jackson had sleep problems
A. Yes
Q Mr. Ortega knew Mr. Jackson had sleeping problems for many years, correct?
A I think so.
Q Dr. Murray was to help Mr. Jackson with that problem?
A Yes.

Q An email we have previously seen was sent to you stating that Dr. Murray would not
permit Mr. Jackson to come to rehearsal, is that right?
A Yes.

Q You are clear about that?
A Yes.

Q Why did you tell us yesterday that there were lots of rehearsals at Staples Center, you
dont know how many Mr. Jackson came to, correct?
A Yes.

Q Thats not true is it?
A When I saw the schedule yesterday.
Q Defense counsel showed you lots of rehearsal schedules from Staples Center --

AEG: Objection.

(Panish exhibits rehearsal schedules)

Q Here sir. Lets see how many total rehearsals there were at the Staples Center before Mr.
Jackson died 1, 2, 3. Only 3. Correct?
A Yes.

Q He didnt come on June 22
nd
?
A I dont think so.
Q So Mr. Jackson attended 2 rehearsals at the Staples Center, isnt that true?
A Yes.

Q Now, it was your understanding that Dr. Murray was responsible for Mr. Jacksons
nourishment?
A Yes.

Q You remember Mr. Ortegas email writing about nourishment and appropriate care for Mr.
Jackson?
A Yes.


Q And it was your understanding that Dr. Murray was to handle that?
A Yes.
Q You mentioned something about a staff doctor?
A Yes.
Q And you excepted Dr. Murray to be a good doctor?
A Yes.
Q A fit doctor to attend for Mr. Jackson?
A Absolutely.

Q You told us you received 5000 submissions for dancers for the This Is It casting, is that
correct?
A I believe 5000. 2300 showed up and we selected from those for casting the tour.

Q When they show up, you do an interview?
A No, I show them the choreography, then they do it. Then we narrow it down from there.

Q So a submission was like a resume?
A Yes. They submit a resume, photos of themselves and videos.
Q You received 6000 resume submissions to cast dancers for This Is It?
A No 5000.

Q Do you know how many doctors resumes AEG received? How many doctors AEG
interviewed to work with Mr. Jackson on This Is It?
A No.

Q How many doctors they tried out?
A No.
Q One of your concerns about Mr. Jackson was that he was fatigued and sore.
A Yes.

Q Yesterday when defense counsel was leading you, you said that you never saw signs of
Mr. Jackson using prescription medication, through all this time. Through the Dangerous Tour,
History Tour, through This Is It. You never saw any signs that you can remember, correct?
A Yes.

Q Someone showing the signs and symptoms of being lethargic could be indicative of a
problem with prescription medication. Didnt you say that you saw Mr. Jackson appearing
lethargic?
A Yes.

Q You saw Mr. Jackson appear groggy at This Is It rehearsals?
A Yes.


Q Would you agree insomnia could be a sign -- a symptom of a problem with prescription
medication?
A Yes. I didnt know that before, but since watching the Murray criminal trial, Ive learned
they are side effects.

Q And you knew Mr. Jackson had problems with insomnia, dizziness, passing out. Which
could be a sign of prescript medication. Is that correct?
A Yes.

Q You had seen Mr. Jackson pass out and fall to the ground?
A Yes.

Q Missing work and performances could be symptoms of someone with a prescription
medication problem?
A Could be.

Q You saw Mr. Jackson missing rehearsals for This Is It?
A Yes.

Q And if someone is incoherent, this could be a symptom of someone with a prescription
medication problem?
A Yes.

Q And you saw Mr. Jackson incoherent, correct?
A Not incoherent. Not being fully himself. You have to understand, hindsight is 20/20. In
the moment I had no knowledge of what was revealed after Mr. Jackson passed. During that time
I had no reason to think why he fainted.

Q You were asked about signs and symptoms, correct?
A Yes.
Q Im asking you about signs and symptoms --
A Im agreeing with you.


Judge: Please slow down it very difficult for the reporter to get all this down

Q You saw, and Mr. Ortega told you he saw Michael Jackson incoherent --

AEG: Objection. Mr Ortegas... state of mind Sustained

Q You saw Mr. Jackson tired and fatigued, correct?
A Yes thats true.

Q And that could be a sign of a problem with prescription medication?


A Yes.

Q Did you ever learn that Mr. Jackson was drugged and despondent at the This Is It London
press conference?
A No.

Q Did you hear that Mr. Phillips yelled at Mr. Jackson so loud that walls shook?
A No.
Q Now. Sir, are you aware that Mr. Jackson was losing weight at rehearsals?
A Yes.
Q And you had never seen him lose weight like that before?
A True.
Q And in your experience he had never lost weight like this before, correct?
A Correct.
Q You recommended a costume designer, Zaldy Goco be brought in?
A Yes.
Q You had worked with this designer before?
A No, I was fan of his. I wanted to work with him.
Q Zaldy Goco is someone you respect?
A Yes.
Q You thought he could add something to the This Is It show?
A Yes.

Q You had already worked with another wardrobe and costume designer, Michael Bush?
A Yes.

Q. You both worked together on the History tour
A. Yes
Q So both designers worked together on This Is It?
A No it wasnt necessary to do that.

Q I want to show you -- Zaldy Goco had unique design
A We thought he would be good for Mr. Jackson and we wanted to do a special shoot.

Q I want to show you a photograph of a Zaldy Goco design.

(Panish shows photograph of the costume)


Q Is this a Zaldy Goco design made for Mr. Jackson for This Is It?
A Yes, Michael loved it.

(Panish now shows a photograph of Michael in the fitting room, being fitted with the
costumes shoulder pieces)

Q Okay. You see this in when Mr. Jackson was getting fitted for the costumes shoulder
pieces, correct?
A Yes, this is the first time Michael saw them.
Q Did you see Mr. Jackson in his t-shirt during this fitting?
A Yes.
Q Did you see his collar bone?

A Yes.
Q Hes pretty skinny?
A Yes.
Q Was this photo taken on the 19
th
?
A I believe so.
Q He is not in great physical shape, is he?
A No, not in great physical shape and he was sore.
Q He was hurting?
A Yes.

Q You were talking about Mr. Jackson being groggy and lethargic. You told Mr. Ortega that
Mr. Jackson looked assisted, is that correct?
A Yes.

Q By assisted you meant that he looked under the influence of drugs?
A Sure.
Q And you told Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson looked assisted to you, correct?
A Yes.
Q It was your role to report those types of things, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q It wasnt your responsibility to take care of Mr. Jackson?
A I expected the physician to take care of that.
Q You thought that Mr. Jackson was groggy?
A Yes.
Q You told Mr. Ortega?
A Yes.
Q Because you expected him to get to the bottom of this, correct?
A Yes.

Q And when you told Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson seemed assisted, you believed that Mr.
Ortega would figure out what was going on?
A Yes.

Q I that because Mr. Ortega told you that he was going to get to the bottom of it?
A Yes.
Q He told you that he was going sort it out, is that right?
A To the best of his ability.
Q Why did you expect Mr. Ortega to deal with the situation?
A If it was abuse, we wanted to deal with it, figure it out.
Q Why?
A We cared about Michael.
Q Also there were goals to be met, correct?

A Yes.

Q The goal was to go to the London 02 Arena. And those goals were not going to be met,
there were concerns, correct?
A Some were, yes.

Q Particularly, Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips were concerned?


AEG: Objection.????
Judge: Were you copied in those emails?

A Yes.

Panish: I appreciate you interrupting you honor.
Judge: Glad you think so.
(Laughter in courtroom)


Q We were talking about people being concerned about meeting the goal to get to the
London 02 Arena for the This Is It Tour. Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips were concerned about
reaching those goals, correct?
A Yes.

Q There were meetings going on to go see Mr. Jackson and talk to him about meeting the
goals?
A Yes.

Q You also felt on a couple of occasions that Mr. Jackson looked assisted after an
appointment with Dr. Klein?
A Yes.

Q When you say assisted, does that mean under the influence?
A I thought it was some kind of sedative -- if they were doing a facial or some cosmetic
procedure they would use a sedative.

Q Do you know what Demerol is?
A I found out after he died.
Q Not before?
A I heard him mention it in his song, Morphine.
Q Morphine is not Demerol, correct?
A Yes.

Q You have testified that Mr. Jackson, in your opinion, looked assisted during practice, is
that so?
A Yes.

Q During late May, Mr. Ortega was concerned about Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Ortega was concerned about Mr Jackson missing rehearsals?
A Yes.
Q He was concerned about meeting the goal of to the O2 Arena shows?
A Yes.
Q And you said everybody wanted Mr. Jackson to do good?
A Yes, including Mr Jackson.
Q Everyone wanted Michael Jackson to succeed?
A Absolutely.
Q Everyone wanted the company to reach the goal?
A No.

Q Now. Mr. Jackson, from late-mid June to his death was having continued physical
weakness, correct?
A It was sporadic.

Q There was a meeting called with Mr. Jackson because you all thought he need physical
maintaining?
A Yes.

Q When you say maintained physically, you mean his body?
A Yes.

Q Like in that picture?
A Yes. He was losing weight, he would say he was sore. He was working up his stamina.
Lack of sleep and improper nourishment were beginning to show.

Q Whats a teleprompter?
A Thats a piece of equipment -- you put words into it to read, like the president can use to
read a speech.

Q Did Mr. Jackson know the words to his songs?
A I think he did. He knew most of them. But he wanted a teleprompter for safety.

Q You are saying that Mr. Jackson wanted a teleprompter so he could know his own songs?
A No, thats not true. Michael wanted it because he didn't want to make any mistakes -- for
extra security if he needed it in case he was stuck on a verse or line. Also we used it for the order
of the songs, so he would know whats next -- to refresh his memory.


Q Did Mr. Jackson ever use a teleprompter before, at any other time, on any of his previous
tours?
A No.

Q And these were songs he had sung thousands of times before, correct?
A Yes.
Q Would you say that was unusual?
A Not unusual. He wanted it.
Q It was not unusual for Michael Jackson --
A He never had it --

Q Let me finish. Wasnt it unusual for Mr. Jackson to need a teleprompter for his own
songs which he had sung and performed thousands of times before and had never used a
teleprompter?
A I can I verify for instance, Michael had never used one for song lyrics, but for a speech
he did at the end of Earth Song, he had a speech and he used a teleprompter for that, but not for
his songs before.

Q Do you agree that it was very unusual for Mr. Jackson to have a teleprompter with the
lyrics of his own songs?
A Yes.

Q What is a body double?
A Stunt man. Sometimes they are used in a production for detail shots. If the star is not
needed. For instance, in the History commercial, I was a body double for Michael. They would
use my feet, then cut it in with Michael in full figure.

Q Do you know Rob?
A Which Rob?
Q Do you know any Rob?
A I know the one in the video. I believe he worked on simulations on the picture.
Q Did Rob request a body double for Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.

Q Mr. Ortega wrote to you about getting a body double for Mr. Jackson for the This Is It
video footage?
A Yes.

Q Who Is Chucky
A. He is a dancer?
Q. Was Chucky used as a body double for Michael Jackson
A Yes,


Q Who is Misha Gabriel?
A Misha Gabriel was another body double for Michael, but he was shorter than Michael.
But closer in color

Q Closer in color to Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.
Q And Chucky Whose Casanova
A He is a tribute artist. One of the Michael Jackson tribute artists.
Q So he is a Michael Jackson impersonator?
A Yes, he likes the term tribute artist.

Q He dresses up to look like him?
A Yes, many people dont like the phrase impersonators, they prefer Tribute Artist

Q And Rob requested a body double for the This Is It video footage?
A Yes.

Q Was Misha Gabriel videotaped as Mr. Jacksons body double for the This Is It video
shoot?
A Yes.

Q Was it that footage used in the This Is It film?
A Yes.
Q So some parts of This Is It showed a body double and not Mr. Jackson, correct?
A Yes.

Q In which location was this filmed?
A It was probably done at Culver Studios. Misha was asked to jump through a glass plate
for Smooth Criminal. It was going to be used on stage. You would see this video of the image
jump through out of frame, then Michael would stand up do the live performance.

Q Was this in Movie?
A Yes.
Q In June, Mr. Jackson was expected to be at these rehearsals, correct?
A Yes.
Q You cant tell us whether he was there or not, is that correct?
A Yes, but he was there..

Q You said yesterday: I dont know when he was there. Have you changed now?
A No, most of the time he was there. It wasnt a big deal. Thinking this far back -- Im
trying to answer as best as I can.

Q There were 18 rehearsals at the Forum, correct?


A It looks like that, yes.
Q You can check it out yourself. Is that what the schedules show?


(Panish shows Payne the rehearsal schedules for the Forum)


A Yes.
Q And you dont know how many rehearsals Mr. Jackson came to?
A No.

Q Rehearsing means Mr. Jackson getting up onstage. You dont know how many times you
saw him up on the stage?
A No.

Q No big deal, right?
A Correct.
Q Who is Michael Bearden?
A He was the band director.
Q Mr. Bearden had concerns about Michael Jackson performing?
A Yes.


(Panish exhibits email chain which Payne is involved in. He shows an email from Michael
Bearden to Kenny Ortega which reads:
MJ is not in shape enough yet to sing this stuff live and dance at the same time. He can use
the ballads to sing live and get his stamina back up. Once he's healthy enough and has
more strength, I have full confidence he can sing the majority of the show live. His voice
sounds amazing right now, he needs to build it back up. I still need all big dance numbers
to be in the system so we can concentrate on choreography.)


Q Do you see that?
A Yes, think so, yes.

Q This is Michael Bearden writing -- hes actually writing Mr. Ortega to talk about meeting
Dr. Murray , Mr. Dileo, Randy Phillips.. are going to have at Mr. Jacksons house. The
email is dated June 16
th
. The email was copied to all those who were going Mr. Jacksons house,
correct?
A Yes.

Q In another part of the email chain Mr. Ortega writes: What concerns me, I have a list to
discuss with MJ that Bearden gave me. Do you know what his concerns were?

AEG: Objection.

Q Was the plan for Mr. Jackson to join band that night to rehearse?
A Are you asking -- Im not certain if this was a day of the week that he should have come
to rehearsal.

Q Do you know if he came?
A I dont know, no.

Q This is where, in the email, Mr. Bearden is telling you 9 days before Mr. Jackson died that
Mr. Jackson was not in shape enough to dance and sing at the same time. Did you agree with
this?
A I didnt see it happen, so I cant know. He was having private rehearsals with Michael
Bearden. That would be his opinion.

Q Are you able to dispute that Mr. Bearden is telling you the truth?
A No.

Q So Mr. Bearden is stating his concern and belief that Mr. Jackson was not in shape to
dance and sing at the same time. Hes telling you, right?
A Yes, I was copied.

Q You dont sing?
A No.
Q Not your area of expertise?
A No.

Q Then Mr. Bearden says: Once he's healthy enough and has more strength, I have full
confidence he can sing the majority of the show live. Correct?
A Yes.

Q Did he tell you when he thought Mr. Jackson could do the full show live?
A Did who tell me?
Q Mr. Bearden?
A No.

Q Mr. Bearden then says: I still need all big dance numbers to be in the system.
What does it mean -- big dance numbers to be in the system?
A It means prepared into the show.

Q In other words if you cant do show, you can have one or the other.
A Yes.
Q Are you disputing this?
A No.

Q Did you have an understanding that AEG were talking about pulling the plug on the This
Is It show?
A Yes.

Q Did you understand that would cause significant stress on Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.


AEG: Objection.


Q You discussed this with Mr. Ortega -- about AEG pulling the plug on This Is It?
A It wasnt throughtout, but we knew we had to get it together or the plug will be pulled.

Q June 19
th
. Mr. Jackson was not doing good that day either, correct?

AEG: Objection.

A Im not certain about June 19
th

Q Let me ask you again. Isnt it true Mr. Jackson was sent home without setting foot
onstage?
A I dont recall. Im not clear on the exact date. If you show me an email -- I mean, I will
agree but Im not sure on the exact date.

Q Was Mr. Jackson sent home without setting foot onstage?
A I dont know.

(Panish shows Payne his deposition. Judge says: Let him refresh first. Payne reads his
deposition)
Payne: Okay, Im done.

Q Does that refresh your memory that Mr. Jackson was sent home?
A It reminds me of my answer, which was that at that time, I believe so.
Q Didnt your deposition characterize Mr. Jackson as being exhausted? Did it??
A Im just saying. did it?

Q Ill come back to you again and show you page 133, line 6. Actually read the whole part.

A Okay.


(Payne reading his deposition)

A Yes.
Q Does that refresh ------
A Yes.

Panish: Your honor, please have witness let me finish the question.
Judge instructs witness

Q Would you characterize that on June 19
th
Mr. Jackson was exhausted?
A Yes.
Q And you would on June 19
th
Mr. Jackson appeared paranoid?
A Yes.
Q Like someone using prescription medication?
A Could be.
Q You saw those symptoms in Mr. Jackson on June 19
th
?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Ortega wrote to you that day -- line 7, see bottom.
A Hum hm.

(break)

During break, Judge stated that if the witness cant remember something, they should be
shown their deposition and given chance to read/remember. If witness says their prior
testimony does not assist them, then we can proceed showing deposition to jury.

Q Yes sir. So on June 19th Mr. Jackson did not rehearse at his home
A. Yes

Q. On June 20
th
you all went to a meeting at Mr. Jacksons Carolwood house, correct?
A Yes.

Q When you got there, he was cold?
A Yes.
Q Kenny massaged his hands and feet?
A Yes.
Q One night during the last week of rehearsals for This Is It, Mr. Jackson could not take the
stage. He was not coherent, correct?
A Yes.
Q He didnt have the energy level, correct?

A Yes.
Q Do you see this photo of Mr. Jackson rehearsing Thriller on June 24
th
?

(Panish exhibits the photo)

A Yes.
Q Is that how Mr. Jackson looked at the end of the June 24
th
rehearsal?
A Yes, this is the spiritual moment, almost a prayer.

Q Okay now sir, umm, you said in the last two days Mr. Jackson improved based on how he
was doing before?
A Yes.


Q But not where he wanted to be?
A Yes.
Q Two times in rehearsals Mr. Jackson was wrapped in a blanket, correct?
A I just know about one time.
Q First time -- June 10
th
?
A Yes.
Q On June 23
rd
and 24
th
, did you know Mr. Phillips was at rehearsals?
A I dont know.
Q On June 24
th
, Mr. Jackson goes up the ramp?
A Yes, on stage.
Q The ramp lifts up?
A Yes.
Q That day you had to assist Mr. Jackson so he would not fall, is that correct?
A I was there. He handled it. Hes done it before safely.
Q You were there to protect him from falling, correct?
A No.
Q So before June 24
th
, he hadnt ridden on that ramp,
A. correct? What -- we were going to leave 8 days later.
Q You were aware of Dr. Finkelstein on the Dangerous Tour?
A Yes.
Q He was there to help Mr Jackson to help him manage the pain?
A I dont know his responsibility at that time.

Q Did you know Michael Jackson suffered pain and trauma from his Pepsi commercial
scalp burn injury?
A Yes.

Q Now, you said that Mr. Ortega was of the mindset that Mr. Jackson was not ready
physically, etc. for the tour, correct?
A I think are you paraphrasing.

Q Did you believe Kenny was of the mindset that Mr. Jackson was not ready physically?
A If he wrote that.

Q This was in June. Five days before he died, correct?
A Yes.

Q You could sense that something was up -- something was wrong, but you just didn't know
what it was, correct?
A Yes.

Q But you knew Mr. Jackson was different?

A Yes.

Q You knew within 4 days of his death that he was not the Michael Jackson you knew,
correct?
A Yes.

Q And he died 4 days later?
A Yes, on the 25
th
.

Q You were told Mr. Jackson was sick. You were asked about all of hes prescription
medication problems on the Dangerous Tour?
A Yes.

Q Last few tour dates on the Dangerous Tour were in Chile and Peru?
A I believe so. Then it stopped in Mexico.
Q You remember the show being canceled?
A Yes.
Q You didnt know why?
A No.

Q You thought Mr. Jackson was doing great on that tour?
A I assumed the tour was cancelled because there may have been civil unrest in the
country, or problems with bookings.

Q Sir, what I was asking -- Shows were canceled for whatever reason. You didnt know
why?
A No.

Q You thought Mr. Jackson was fine?
A Yes.
Q Then the shows got canceled?
A Yes.
Q Elizabeth Taylor took Mr. Jackson to rehab?
A Correct.
Q You saw no signs of prescription medication problems?
A No.
Q Just like This Is It?
A Right, I didnt see anything that alarmed me.

Q Ah lets see.. Sir would it be fair to say -- somebodys got a cell on. Someone has got
their phone on.

(Panish continues)


Q Let me try again. Couple more questions. I appreciate you being here.
A Not a problem.

Q Did you see that Michael Jackson was getting, you were under the impression Mr Jackson
was getting everything done in the last days of the This Is It rehearsals?
A Yes.

Q Did you feel the pressures with the show had manifested themselves physically in
Michael Jackson?
A Yes.

Q So you sensed that something was wrong, you just didn't know what it was?
A Yes.


Re-direct examination by Jessica Stebbins.

Q Mr. Payne, um that night Mr. Jackson appeared unwell is June 19
th
?

Panish: Objection. Leading the witness.

Q June 19
th,
that night I believe you testified that Mr. Jackson was chilled?
A Yes.
Q Disoriented or whatever -- ?
A Thinking..I believe so.
Q Have you ever seen him in that condition before?
A No.
Q Did you ever see him in that same condition again?
A No. Not flu like disoriented, no.
Q After that day can you recall he looked better?
A Yes, the last 2 days we completed the show.

Q Did you have any doubts you couldnt get Mr. Jackson to were you had to?
A You know, I never doubted Michael. He was the architect. Part of my responsibility was
to get him there. (begin crying)

Q And you did that? Do you think you got him there?
A Absolutely!
Q When you talk about pressure.
A Yes.
Q He was 50 years old.
A Yes.

Q Do you know whether he wanted excited to put together a great show?


A He absolutely did, thats why we were working.
Q I want to ask you about times you saw him assisted?
A Sure.
Q Did that happen just the 2 or 3 times that you mentioned to Mr. Ortega?
A Yes.
Q One time he looked groggy?
A Yes.

Q Did you see muddiness?
A No there was one time at the house, and the times I mentioned at Center Staging, that
was my understanding that Michael had come from a dermatology appointment.

Q My question yesterday where we showed you that schedule you saw, was that a typical
day for you?
A Yes it was.

Q Were there many days you worked and were there approximately 3 or 4 hours?


(Stebbins shows Payne defense exhibit schedule again)


A Yes It was.
Q Were there a number of days in May when you worked with Mr. Jackson choreographing
the show?

A Yes.
Q How often did you actually see Mr. Jackson?
A I cant say.
Q Was it most days?

Panish: Objection. Foundation.

Q Was Mr. Jackson there most days, at his house?
A Yes.
Q Most days?
A Yes, a significant amount of days.
Q And about the Dangerous Tour. Did you choreograph the Dangerous Tour?
A Yes.
Q Is that known?
A Yes.
Q Right after lunch, I showed you a couple of pages, correct?

A Yes.
Q I showed you another that was about Mr Gongaware emails?
A Okay.

Q This was forwarded by Mr. Ortega after Dr. Murray suggested to keep Mr. Jackson out of
rehearsal?
A Yes.

Q They wanted to set up a meeting with the doctor?
A Yes.

Stebbins: Your honor, can I approach the witness?
Panish: What pages?
Judge: She has to ask the question first
(Stebbins looks through the deposition. the Gongaware email, talking about Michaels
missed rehearsals)

Q Mr. Payne, I asked you if you recalled this. You told me you did recall this email
A Right.
Q Do you have a better sense of what you were saying?

Panish: Objection.

Sidebar

Q I want to ask you if you recall that email?
A Yes, I took it to mean that they would be having discussions because there had been
some inconsistency at rehearsal, and there was a need to have a meeting about that.

Q Did you ever attend the meeting with Dr, Murray?
A No.

Q What was your understanding of what he was there to do?
A Who Dr. Murray? He was there to care for the patient, Mr Jacksons nutritional needs, to
-- um -- get him ready for the show since he had not been on stage for decades.

Q Did someone tell you that?
A I just assumed.
Q Did Mr. Jackson tell you?
A No, I never asked about his affairs.
Q You never spoke to Dr. Murray about Mr. Jacksons medical condition?
A No, no.
Q You were asked earlier about a text message?

A Okay.
Q Do you recall receiving any of those textxmessages?
A Absolutely not.
Q Do you know Karen Faye?
A Yes.
Q Are you friends?
A We are professionals, not friends.
Q Did you have an understanding that she was with Mr. Jackson?
A Yes.
Q Did you see her?
A I saw her once.
Q So you spent time with Mr. Jackson when she didnt?
A True.
Q Do you have an understanding that Ms. Faye may be divisive?
A Oh yes, she had reputation.


Panish: Objection. Judge: Sustained.


Q Did you get on with her?
A We were professional with each other, but. not friends.
Q You were concerned about Mr. Jackson after he was sent home?
A Yes.
Q You knew something was wrong?
A Yes.
Q Following that he came back and did two good nights rehearsals, correct?
A I felt we were definitely on the upswing.

Q You didnt have concerns?
A I still felt we had a way to go, but I knew Michael could do it. I was concerned about
inconsistencies. That day when he was wrapped in the blanket, I thought: Oh, he has to get over
the flu.

Q Other than that, did you have concerns about Mr. Jackson -- other than being an older
dancer?

Panish: Objection.

Q Other then that, around June or early May, what were your concerns about Mr. Jackson?

Panish: Objection.

Q Um. I was trying to say


Q You said that June 19
th
was unusual?
A Yes.

Q At any other time other than that rehearsal -- what were your concerns?
A I had concerns that production felt he wasnt coming to evening rehearsals enough. I had
concerns we needed to create a show that Michael would like doing. If it was too ambitious it
wouldnt be fun for him. If it was less, Michael Jackson fans would not like it. So it had to be
balanced.

Q I want to ask you briefly about the June 22
nd
date.
A Yes.
Q Plaintiffs attorney showed you three schedules?
A Okay.
Q This Is it show schedules.
A Okay, okay.
Q May 12
th
?
A Yes.
Q May 19
th?
A Yes.
Q And June17
th
?
A Yes.
Q Did you see one for June 22
nd
?
A I dont think so.
Q Can you view the bottom of that form.
A Okay.
Q This comment for June 22
nd
.
A Yes

Q Is that a schedule?
A No, a session notice. Days session. This appears to be notes that I sent to Brother
Michael from the session I had with Michael that I wanted Brother Michael to printout and give
to him.

Q You saw a photograph of yourself at the premier?
A Yes.
Q Was Mr. Jacksons family at the premiere?
A I saw Jermaine. We met and shook hands.


(Stebbins shows a photo of Jermaine Jackson and Payne from TII premiere)

Q Is this you?
A Yes.
Q Were any other brothers there?
A I believe so.


(Stebbins shows photo of Jermaine smiling with Ortega, Tito and Marlon Jackson)

Q Do they look happy?
A Yes, they look pleased.

Q You were happy?
A I was because we had been through so much. (crying) And it seemed like that rough
period was behind us. With the film. I was proud we had at least pieced together what the show
was to be for Michael Jackson fans. About what the show was going to be. Our intention was to
represent what the show that was going to be. I was happy.

Re-cross examination by Brian Panish.

Q This Is It premiere -- Mrs. Jackson wasnt there.
A No.
Q Michael Jacksons children were not there.
A No.
Q They hadnt gotten pass the rough period of losing their fatherMr. Jackson.
A We all hadnt.
Q Were they smoking big cigars like Mr. Dileo?
A No.
Q You said you only saw Michael Jackson wrapped in a blanket once?
A One, I can recall.

Q The one were Mr. Gongaware was present at the Staples Center, where Mr. Jackson was
wrapped in a blanket and sitting next to a heater, correct?
A Yes.

Q There was another time at the Forum where Mr. Jackson was wrapped in a blanket and
sitting next to a heater, correct?
A Not to my knowledge.


Panish: Okay. Let me give you your deposition to read. Why dont you go to page 64, line 1
through 18.

(Panish gets the page for him)


Panish: Read that sir

Payne: I read that, sir. This is not what you asked me.

Q Sir, does that refresh your memory? Mr. Jackson wrapped in a blanket?
A That is incorrect. I saw cold, shivering once at his house, and then another time at Staple
Center.

Panish: I want to play witnesss deposition.

Judge: I want to see everything you want to play.

Sidebar

Q You were never present at the meeting at Carolwood?
A Correct.

Q When you were shown that email from Mr. Gongaware saying to tell Dr. Murray what
was expected of him, you didnt know?
A No.

Q What was your understanding when Mr. Gongaware said: what is expected of him? Did
you expect Dr. Murray to get Mr. Jackson to rehearsals?
A Yes, my understanding was that Dr. Murray will get whatever nourishment to get
Michael to rehearsals.

Q Because they were upset -- because Brother Michael had called you, saying that Mr.
Jackson was sick?
A Correct.

Q Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Phillips were not happy?
A No.
Q Because they were paying Dr Murrayto get Mr. Jackson to rehearsals?

Stebbins: Objection.
Panish: Well, he was copied in the emails.

A Could you restate the question?

Q Was it your understanding that AEG were paying Dr. Murray to get Mr. Jackson to
rehearsals?
A He may have said it.


Judge: Was that your understanding?

A I took to understand that Michael needed physical therapist, nutritionist, what ever he
could do to get Michael to go to rehearsals so we could finish the show.

Q One last thing, now sir. You said maybe Mr. Jackson had the flu?
A Yes, it seemed flu like.
Q Did he have sniffling?
A Not that Im aware of.
Q Did he have a sore throat?
A I dont know if he had a sore throat
Q He never said?
A No.
Q He just said he was tired?
A Yes.

Q Do you know what withdrawal from prescription medication symptoms look like?
A No, but I know what withdrawal from flu looks like, thats what I thought.

Q But Mr. Ortega didnt tell you?
A No.
Q Did anyone else tell you they thought Mr. Jackson had the flu that day?
A No.

(Witness released)





Exhibit 664 - 352

Exhibit 664 - 353

Exhibit 664 - 354

Exhibit 664 - 355

Exhibit 664 - 356

Exhibit 664 - 357

Exhibit 664 - 358

Exhibit 664 - 359