Académique Documents
Professionnel Documents
Culture Documents
1993
Q O
2
Tape 1!
Indiscernible female
Telephone ringing!
customer --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Go out and check Penny with Phil or Chuck or Krone. I think we might have lost one
of our walkies over there and they may have it or may have tore-code all the radio traffic or they're going
to listen to everything we say, so -- well, because the
So manymen wereshot check for us -team might have lost one there.
he ain't answering.
voice in background.!
to make
arrangements with
know, Scheidler,
to reprogram
Telephone ringing!
MR. KAVANAUGH: stuff off corner or
Could you
clean all
this
this desk
stack it
in the
something? Telephone
going down
find out,
there's a car
MR. KORESH:
Road.
you knew
through.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
now,
I--
you've explained
them to
MR. KORESH:
Ihaven't.
I've not
Just like
Itold,
just
Gonzalez -Yeah.
Robert Gonzalez
Yeah.
--
MR. KORESH:
--
Ireally
liked that
guy too.
I I
4 MR
. KAVANAUGH:
Yeah, I
understand.
And -Let me --
--
that. Listen,
let me
MR. KORESH:
men, I
m
their
just concerned
as bad
as I
am, that's
for sure.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: No.
Not as
bad as you
are?
losing so
much
MR. KORESH:
NO.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
get some medical --
-- that
or
MR. KORESH:
Yeah.
they're walking up
How is
wrapped
stuff and,
and, you
know,
you
keep --
you got
to keep,
you know,
some --
little
f 92
MR. KORESH:
tight --
tourniquet, you
know.
hey listen,
or
r L
Q O
6
you know,
don't think
and --
_ MR.
if, if
message would continue, your word wouldgo out. MR. KORESH: Look, look, I didn't hurt any
[cut off and on] MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I understand that.
-yeah.
'88, and -
MR. KAVANAUGH: '87, '88, yeah. MR. KORESH: -- we went down to the Sheriff
S
Department and we told them look,you know, we've 8 got restraining order against him. They're bad doing
things. They dug up one of the caskets out here and
[cut off
and
ll
Q .
Hey, David?
I
8
from the radio people. Okay. Hold on just a second, I'm talking to David. If you will give me your message
they will play it.
do it.
that
to do it himself,
that --
see what
right. That,
that, and
after that
--
Um-hum.
at a
are the
kids
keep fit
-I
love
MR. KAVANAUGH:
They're prettyscared. I
guess they're scared aren't they? MR. KORESH: No, they're not scared.
Okay. Well,
we
they're just, they're just doing what they -MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
C O
10 , 5
want to give me
No,
don't want -I
MR. KORESH:
that and --
No, that
thins the
blood and
all
-- it'll,
it'll
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: So --
Don't do that.
bleed. Are
I 92
you in a comfortable
MR. KORESH:
position?
position, my
friend.
up?
comfortable position
right now
under, huh?
_ ,
_ _ __;7*a
ll
crime, I
bullshit
believe bad
in the
world, okay?
selfish gain,
molest children,
their own
at least
crime
they made an
--
you know,
David --
some, some
of the
times they
doing indiscernible!
upon indiscernible!
indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH:
David, I
understand --
them, I
says, I
to you
today you
should be
with me in
understand and
know what do
you think,
how
12
can do
I,
MR. KAVANAUGH:
-- you,
you understand
MR. KORESH:
And God said I'm not going to bring a flood and the
this tower
MR. KORESH:
Indiscernible! working
together
13
their languages
their, their
words and
like
- I'm, I'rn
radio station.
Let me up now?
like I
--
are.
<
l4 I _
were pulling
DOC --
They're, they're
want you
to listen
truck, armored,
you to
listen to
the
radio station
at 4:55.
try to
get it on
that it's not the best, the best would be for you to be
on there. I understand Iappreciate
respect it.
lot of
with you: I
dictane it to as
have this
maybe
coming out.
Yeah.
/ 92
I say,
15
heaven, right?
the
Gave
indiscernible! to
Yeah, I
understand. --
Okay. Now
got to
give me
word-for-word what
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
and --
MR. KORESH:
Is a
truck coming
in?
I,
I give
MR.
MR. KORESH:
KAVANAUGH: Nobody
you tell
it out. the seven
me what
to say and
Now, give
seals
me word-for-word.
first?
MR. KORESH:
Word on
the word.
now, I
my God, wait a
.92
minute, sits
MR. MR. MR
on the
throne --
KORESH: In
Heaven.
a book given me
-a book.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH:
MR. MR.
-Of
seven seals.
KAVANAUGH: KORESH: In
Seven seals.
Revelation 10, Revelation 10,
-thi
Okay.
verse verse
book
-7 -_ 7.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR.
KORESH:
s sealed
Sealed book
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: --
the mystery
--- is
of God. of God
the mystery
to be finished -finished
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH:
MR. MR. MR. MR. MR.
Is
-- as
to be God has
declared
KAVANAUGH:
KORESH: -KAVANAUGH:
God has
declared
to his
What is
servants the
--
prophets
KORESH: Revelation
22 --
I just
want --
sealed bbok,
mystery of God, oh, you know -- you have the sealed MR. KORESH: Yeah, that's what I was opening
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Go
17 ahead.
MR. KORESH:
In Revelation
22 --
which is
the book
MR. KORESH: To give unto every man -MR. KAVANAUGH: Give unto every man. Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- the
seals.
knowledge of
the seven
seven
all?
Yeah.
do you --
nurses.
Okay. All
right. Now,
18
you, okay?
You
MR. KORESH:
Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
me a book of seven
as God,has
seals. In
In Revelation
David Koresh.
Koresh. Koresh.
this on,
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now, I'm going to get and let's you and me agree [gap]
~19
station is
it going
MR. KAVANAUGH:
in one minute.
It's going to be
on 1080
in,
just
a minute,
David, hold
Okay.
on.
MR. KORESH:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER #1:
Let me
cut a
deal before
yet.
there's a message
and the
media that
no more
and that
agents are
it from
we - you
settle it peacefully,
- do you
okay?
have a
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
getting
the radio.
Okay, good.
Indiscernible!
MR. KORESH:
OO
20
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Yeah, well
--
MR. KORESH:
You guys
have to
go a
-- it's
kind of,
got to
No, I
I know
happen to
me [cut
off and
MR. KAVANAUGH:
those old
whiskey?
what part
of the
Houston.
MR. KAVANAUGH= Houston, yeah. MR. KORBSH: And there's, there's batteries
in there.
area.
I was born in
Houston, raised
in the
Dallas
yeah.
M. KAVANAUGH:
M. KORESH:
Texas boy.
-- horses.
{l
OO
21
You know
about those
Four Horses
The Four
Horses from
--
MR. KORESH:
go to
and fro
the earth
about them.
They
don't care
MR. KAVANAUGH:
The Four
Horses of
the
Apocalypse.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
The Revelation,
an interesting
MR. KORESH:
there's a truth
Well, the
in the
thing of
Bible.
it
is is
about them
wife used
MR. KORESH:
horses where I come
Oh, yeah.
You should
see the
from.
Beautiful?
MR. KAVANAUGH=
MR. KORESH:
Gigantic, massive.
on thisvmessage,
you should
get your
be hearimg
this
radio on.
can someone turn
MR. KORESH:
Can someone,
22 the 92--
MR. KAVANAUGH:
92 I I F 7 P P
1080 AM -- 1080.
MR. KORESH:
once or twice if
to play
it
to play
it a
to play t a
couple times
so he
can hear
it.
MR. KORESH:
station or --
Is it a
kind of a -~ let me
I F > I l s '. V r 1
if I
can get
--
MR. KORESH:
My name is Koresh,
Y
tell
them Koresh.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Koresh. Get
up louder.
is.
it right.
Pick it
Here it
RADIO BROADCASTER:
Indiscernible!
resolution to
the situation.
23 I 92
important.
continuing. I'll
moments.
in just
details --
a few
Join us
r I
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now listen, he.kept their word. Now, the only thing is
MR. KORESH: I can't hardly hear you.
they
> i
they didn't --
r > I
you okay?
Can you
I I > 92
Turn that
radio down.
Yeah, sure.
MR. KORESH:
Okay. Here
we go.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: Sir?
Okay. David?
MR. KAVANAUGH:
your
too. Now,
I kept my part of
for
.
I
message on there
M. KORESH:
1
Yeah, what
do you
want?
MR. KAVANAUGH: 1, I
want some
of the
wounded
Q
Y r
Q O
P 24
hand?
MR. KORESH:
Okay.
i
1
hand?
r 7 I >
working this stuff out then youcan come and have the
kids, all right?
Now, yougive me
O
25
your word
God blessryou, I
MR KORESH:
going to have
those scholars call me up, right? KAVANAUGH: Well, Ihadn't got to that
KORESH: Try, try for me.
KAVANAUGH: Iwill
wor d , y bu tp when we la this
message as agreed,
out.
David's
going to
let
us get
the children
MR KORESH:
Gunshot!
But they're -~
MR KAVANAUGH:
Okay?
MR KORESH:
OO
26
indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Who's shooting out Find out who's shooting out there.
MR. KORESH: Out in the field.
chem?
them -~
tell
them to
those people
back.
MR. KA VANAUGH: We don't know who's shboting, David. It - we're going to find out. It's non us.
5
?
building.
and on]
the, to the
okay? p
MR. KORESH:
25 get
. >
0. 0,
27
Yeah.
I said,
---
I want these
MR. KAVANAUGH:
i
I
up here and
going to tell them, you know, that I want some replies on that and I want someone show to me from scriptures
where the
wrong.
knowlI'm
MR KORESH: That's, that's all I'm qsking -MR. KAVANAUGH: -I know that --
life, man.
MR. KORESH= Well, if I -let, let$ go one step -let me play this messageand, and, andflet's
get some
,
-all
right
--
I 28
MR.
and then
I I
we'll talk.
MR. MR.
Turn the
radio on.
to get
it on
MR.
can't
I I
hear my
friend here.
MR. MR.
bass down.
I I MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. I I
David?
I I
you send
the
MR.
play the
and put
on there
Um-hum.
me so-called
--
religious --
MR . KAVANAUGH: MR .KORESH:
-~
know -MR MR p
.KAVANAUGH:
O
29
the seven
K >
seals are.
I, I
think you
than anyone.
Well, okay,
And I --
then -
my position
is, is,
is
it is,
buddy, I
mdan you
MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I
small movement
M.
just want
us to make a
toward a
peaceful agreement.
going to
take
MR.
our children.
KAVANAUGH:Okay. Well,
of the ladies out?
would yob,
would
KORESH: Huh?
KORESH: The
- any
women --
thelwomen
don't want to
80--
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
KORESH: --
once we get
our chanpe
to
I r
O
30
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Well, what, what MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! it's against
religion --
I r i
i 9
so --
we know --
do
31
die, come on, we're going to - we,we got some1-we're taking some shots from your guys.
MR. KORESH: Where?
Are his
shooting our guys behind the rear barn and we're not
firing at all.
mean, you know, I'd tell them don't them shoot but if
people are shooting at them, you know --
> I 32
I've
need the word from you, you're the top man. Tel them
MR. KORESH:
F I
I
Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Everybody-stop, everybkdy -MR. KORESH: Who is down at the barn ight
now? Go and try -Dave -M. KAVANAUGH:
> i
33
everything from
the barn.
shooting,
shooting.
right?
No.
_ MR.
KAVANAUGH: Okay,
MR. KORESH: We never
good.
have shot.
that might
want to come
out, you
know?
They don't think it's ATF. Put the word out, anybody
who's shootingat them --
They say they took a round from way, way off somewhere.
1 i
!
QQ
34
Is he
ATF or what?
Steve? What's the name of my buddy across the street? What's his name? Can you get RobertGonzalez on the
I
phone so
Ican
talk to
him?
I 1
f
92
sent him.
He's notaround.
you know,
I--
I I
35
MR. KORESH:
Yeah.
on the
Double-E Road.
message.
MR. KORESH:
let's-
I'Ill tell
you what, you got my word I'll you give one message,
I'll give you this second message. I'll have it
played, I'll do it first -'
me first.
I I
I I
36
MR. KORESH: I thought your name was Lynch. MR. KAVANAUGH: No, no, Jim Kavanaugh, that's
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, it's nothing like that. Hey David, I mean if I could get us to make an
agreement here, I can't get --
MR. KORESH: Sheriff Thorn that you like him? MR. KORESH: Yeah, that, you know, I, I
Q O
37
MR. KORESH: -- of
fishing.
Harwell, you know, after we're gone he can still come MR. KAVANAUGH: You'regoing not to be gone. MR. KORESH: Well, it
going to do for me.
look,
MR. KORESH: You got all the technology, you can hook me up, you know? People likestories,ithey -you know, or TV, come on.
Iknow.
like a fool on TV, if you all just let me, you know, on
TV just, you know, blankit just like [gap] my words
and stuff and, and then, you know, people will like that. It's kind of like, you know, not like the
president talking, it's kind of like the [gap] g
Q O
38
MR. KAVANAUGH: One person, one person, that's just all, one person. Ifyou'lltd agree send
one -g
MR. KORESH:
You know?
92 i
I 39
and
ask again
and see
if a
ybody wants
you know.
stuff get
know? And
everything, and talking and, care for
you and
eve and th people and
U mean,
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH
MR. KORESH: MR. KAVANAUGH MR. KORESH:
:I
I care
know you
about --
do.
P l
I l
MR. KAVANAUGH
says that
Do you
say and
40
call you
that, I
way.
Imaan,
we,
MR. KORESH=
come on,
look --
hold it,
you're
92
man. .
at that.
Well --
can weido
my best do
message played?
your words
mean,
MR. KORESH:
Don't worry
about no
bosses,
like Isay,
us all up,
if, if
nobody
I ain't going to
MR. KORESH: Well, you
let nobody
know, you --
--
>
92 I.
C MR. KORESH: I'm guy thethat's putting a
stop to -41
it is
id that
I 92
you letthem come in in the first place. Those guys are not like us,they don't know what they're doing indiscernible! they're, they're a job, doing they're trying tomakeliving, a they're trying toraisetheir families. You know, you guys from the top, man, you
just put it to me straight,those guys werescared when they came out here, those guys are probably crack shots, youknow? But no, theywere scared, you knbw
indiscernible!.
E I 92
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm trying to get side, it's important, very important. MR. KORESH: We told them to get
mean?
them on
our
O ut. You
it is is that,
.1
O
p 42
you know, God also has anarmy. You need to read Isaiah 13, see what can happen on you. It's nonsense to have so many -- there's no herosin this kind of
stuff, man.
that -- you tellthem Jim Kavanaugh he said -~1we might have a message for him to playand I-~ and he's going
to have to do it. All right. Hang on a minutei
MR. KORESH: All right. , MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, get that messaga back
I've been
that might
make92them
media is? I mean, they're they do -things on tdeir own but we're, trying we're to do everything we cah to
do what's right byyou. And let's this: let's do make
I, I, I
like}
4 3
people from the book the word of God what God has
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: -- that I will notallow anybody to believe me. You cannot be flesh and blood. Bqt what is written in the testimony from those who sthrted the Christian Church, you know, Moses [gap] Malachi -MR. KAVANAUGH: Let me ask you somethingl let
me ask you something, you may know about this. Wh%t about that thing they call the, the Ark? Do you knbw
about that? I -i
92
44
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Noah's Ark?
Noah -~
MR. KORESH:
Or the
Ark of
of the
thihg,
yes.
MR. KORESH: It's in Turkey right the earthquake took place, the glacier
Umhum.
now.l when
busted --
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
-- and
Yeah.
exposed it.
I I I
were saved,
the
, 92
Q O
45
people that
carried the
word.
were saved
day will
>
my
of that
--
you --
you know,
couldn't
that i
~ 46
in Isaiah
~~
MR. KAVANAUGH:
6 where he talks
of the
six-
Umhum?
MR. KORESH:
are now
!
were
47
confirmation some agent's dead. I got to tell him. They heard it on the news. Okay. Check on that. I
know wehad some, some in intensive care.
MR. KORESH: Fourteen wounded --
MR. KORESH:
Yeah.
.
If I -- and if I --
MR. KORESH:
if you
--
92
Q O
l
rewarded evil to him that wasat peace to me, that
4 8
MR. KORESH: -- you know? If I'vewrong done thenIneed to bepunished. Psalm 7 says if Ihave
MR. KORESH: The truth is to set you ree -MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
the ground.
49
understand that.
r 92
MR. KORESH: Oh, yeah, that's good. MR. KAVANAUGH= That's bad, not yeah. *
MR. KORESH: Maple nut
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
cakes.
things don't work out the way we want, come on and help
yourself, there's plenty of -,
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh --
MR. KORESH: -- plenty of, plenty of MEs. MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, it's going towor out.
We're you and -me are going to work it out. Yoh and
me -- let me tell you something, we're - we -- :
MR. KORESH: We come from two different'
worlds, you know what I mean?
SO I 92
actually don't
understand.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Yes.
1 1 I
92
51
the sheriff that --
MR. KORESH:
Harwell?
I did,
I got the
Yeah -- and --
MR. KORESH:
-- and
to --
Thorn.
guys. ,
okay?
MR. KORESH: Of course, you know --
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, thesheriff's reply to you is that he loves you and he cares for you. V MR. KORESH: Thanks. Tell him I don'tjhold
no grudges in '88 either.
MR. KORESH:
Yeah.
wants all
nhosa
i
52
just
play a
I
to give
us some
kids.
is V
-'
Y
} 53
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well,
would like to.
that's too-b%d, I, I
MR. KORESH:
But --
MR. KORESH:
One song
"I
MR. KORESH: -- it
really knows
going to
indiscernible! four
angels indiscernible!"
-- I
-- not
a lot
MR. KORESH:
what
of all, it
eels
MR. KAVANAUGH:
>
54
r x
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Oh, man
--
MR. KORESH:
and warm and --
then you
kind of
[gap]. I
my --
I think
the pelvic
--
MR. KAVANAUGH:
The pelvic
--
g
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Ricocheted or
Yeah. -
something.
MR. KORESH:
.9 mm I guess.
Yeah, I think, I
think it!was
you know?
> 55
big, but
--
i
--ican
you leave the phone open and get another towel on your
wound on your backand I'll wait here C for you? V
don't know -r
V f
time it's
.
r
indiscernible!.
1 think Wayne's --
i >
I 92.
about 45 minutes.
okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is he
MR. KORESH:
He's okay.
know,&and
to listen.
Tape 2!
MR. KAVANAUGH STEVE: Hello MR. KAVANAUGH
V 92 STEVE: Yes.
doing?
MR. KAVANAUGH
How is he doing?
Is, is
he
bleeding a
lot?
STEVE: Well,
but, you
right. Look,
all square --
STEVE: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH
come out --
STEVE: Right
r 92.
MR. KAVANAUGH
-- do,
do you
have
flashlight you
could give
them.
we could
give
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Anything they
could --
just
lost.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
slowly pull right behind
STEVE: All
right. ,
to get
shot, you
--
know?
you know
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- I
STEVE: Right.
trust you.
1
STEVE: Exactly,
I understand.
0Q
STEVE: Right.
.
ss
STEVE: okay.
STEVE: And
give us
a call.
talk to
them. }
STEVE: Thank you. y
K
?
OO
[ 59
I don't want anymistakes andI don't want the v
commanders on the ground
you know?
to do
anything, that
we agree,
STEVE: Right,
okay.
little}girls?
seem to
be., I'm
L
if 1 talked to
this is
the man
wanted to
MR. KORESH:
All right.
Okay.
Okay. Listem
to me.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Sita?
mother; okay.
back.
.0
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: So and she'll be the one
each child out, okay?
_
taking
she take
do it --
them out
they, they -- you know, make sure -can even gait them
there.
I
61
you know
they're safe.
MR. KORESH: Okay. You're going to
ut to you, right?
_
hav them
brought o
MR. KAVANAUGH:
To me,
okay?
MR. KORESH:
phone and
you two
call on
the
MR. KORESH:
hold noth
said, I don't
--
ing against
love you,
k it
all out
a little
bit later,
okay?
of people
love you
MR. KORESH:
and I
-- V
-
Oh, I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, I know that. i MR. KORESH: Remember that we dideverything
i , 62
in our power to stop it's just like in 1988, there was Anyway, we did ydu know, the Sheriff's Department told us dangerous people out here, you know.
Robert Gonzalez
had been
several
times to
you know?
he chose not to. Okay. k MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. I'm, I'm, suppo%ed I'm
to get the word here in just a -l
MR. KAVANAUGH:
All right
it
up just
because I
want to
car comes
first
MR. KORESH: Okay.
I
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- because
to see it
to
-you
know, I
want her
what -you
Okay. 1
And, and the car will come,
MR. KORESH:
All right.
00
flashlight so, you know ~-
3
63
MR. KAVANAUGH: So just give us a minute. MR. KORESH: Remember, she's going to have a MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, that -- okay,
well see
They're
> Y
your
sid%
L
I
MR. KORESH:
Oh, man.
92
MR. KORESH:
Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: Uh~huh.
is coming,
okay?
F6. 92
a
it
is
it's cdmin
from about six miles. We're not sending -- we're92not letting those guys that are onthe roadthere, okay -9
MR. KORESH: Okay. '
too, if you can, you know how they're better with kid
little kids.
their
I
MR. KORESH:
Okay.
Sita will
walk out,
> 1
car lights
come on
--
s @ es
--
Yeah, oh,
inside, and then we'll --
give us
when Sita
comes back
them, okay?
and, andhey92--
Yeah.
go ba
-i
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Well, I
know, David.
No ,
I
mistakes. Okay.
We'll Is the
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
car coming
down now? 3
be a few
minutes because
we don't want
the roadblock,
here with
me --
92
66
MR. KAVANAUGH:
I don't wanti
X
> v
MR. KORESH: Hey, you go all around andtell them that a car's coming -k
1
~- and that we're i
. 92 i
i
K
you got
already got
there --
around. Is M
I
Okay? 5
92 67
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, do you want me to talk she mom here for a
I will?
to their
trusts me,
minute so
you can.
them in.
' 1
1
indiscernible! K
MR. KAVANAUGH: You've to got bring them i here. Our agreement is - just put themon the phone Okay. Okay. I was just telling the commander that you
92
look like.
MR. KORESH: Well, these two are little
is
Oriental girls. 1
okay.
now,know I what's in yourheart. I 92 MR. KORESH: Hey, all I wanted to was sho%
the seals that indiscernible!. I
92
K
for you,
MR. KORESH:
Man --
MR. KORESH:
It's -- I,
I got
to stay
alive at
least long
enough to
l
92
got to
do is
it.
you got
to tell
Steve too
he
hang with
lift the
trying to
STEVE: Lift the leg, lift the leg, please, leg -- back groaning sounds!. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: He said he's -that he'sE
stay alive
no glitches,
glitches. Okay.
i $
92
going to
get two
- want
message again
until we get the
once we
children. Don't
children and
line with
then -but
somebody next
I want
door and
them to
I--
be on an open
when we havelthe
it played
>
for you,
a lot
buddy.
i
of people
around
92
of
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Yeah, but
Hold on.
you know
-- E
MR. KORESH:
-- I'll do what
Ican
for them
when Iget
a good
BecauseIdon't, I
E
92
71
do it.
goes out, the mother walks the two kids out, the two
kids get in the car, the agent leaves, they bring the
children here, I put them on the phone with David, then
1
they're not
K
5
E
,
F
front,
92
MR. KORESH: That's it. E MR. KAVANAUGH: That's that's it, we're okay,
coming. 1
MR. KORESH: And then besides, you know, E
there will be a womanthere too, see whatI'm saying?
.92
> i72
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KORESH:
Okay.
E
i
flashlight?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, and I'll hold - I'll hive her holdit down to the ground so she doesn't flare it
in your eyes. i
tell Steve if he
i
92 92
them out.
MR. KORESH: Okay. i
3
92
73
MR. KORESH: All right. MR. KAVANAUGH: Huh? H Be sure -- K MR. KORESH: I'm tellingsome people. Be
sure ~ oh, I
fire, that
all the
guys to hold
out an
MR. KAVANAUGH: Tell everybody. That's gbod. David. That was good. Steve's a good man.
MR. KORESH: Well, he, he loves the truth.
buddy, I, I kept,
74
MR. KORESH:
Huh?
it. I
mean,
- like
I said,
you
Groaning sounds!
MR. KAVANAUGH: I can tell you're hurtingi
1
I
man, I, I
somehow. I
feel bad.
I, I
wish I
could comfort
you
i 92
>
A
Yeah, she's, she's fine. Okay. She's not scared is
I
she? E
MR. KORESH: N0.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Okay. Good.
i i I
75
92
in
Oh, yeah.
She believes
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
She believes
Yeah.
in God's word.
E
> X
MR. KAVANAUGH:
at me
and talk
That'sallowed me to
X
L
l 92
I believe
that, I
believe that.
I think
send that
goddamn lose it
indiscernible! well, this is the only guythat cut the deal. Can -- well, ask them while I'm theon phone %
indiscernible! can they come over here, and we can al
O
f 92
together work them here.
9 ,
I'll keep him on.
K i vs
And tell
down. No,
that one,
the other
they can
up straight.
it.
Move the
I
up a little more,
please.
too but I mean, I mean I called them when they were shooting so I mean .
MR. KORESH: Little bit more, please. Ba
f 92
77 come over
MR. KORESH:
What now?
with a guy
MR. KORESH:
Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER:
Indiscernible!
up. !
ready to
car needs
indiscernibl
MR. KORESH: Could you pull my more? Get the cat out. Push it up.
to get
leg up
some
>
them to
move
i i
i
MR. KORESH: Okay.
Yeah, but
92
the boss,
you know?
I mean
-- well,
that's true.
92
N
Child crying!
MR. KAVANAUGH: MR. KORESH:
'~ g.
David? Sir?
E
a baby crying?
3 I V
IO
E
% 78
What's her
Bobbie.
name?
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Bobbie. How
old?
MR. KAVANAUGH: A year, bless her heart. lshe got enough to eat
indiscernible!. 1
in there?
Oh, yeah, plenty of food.
> I
MR. KORESH:
kids myself.
right now.
I have a little
Good woman.
boy.;
:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
name?
Is
she? What's
her mom's
MR. KORESH:
Rachel.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Rachel.
MR. KORESH:
Who is
that, Steve?
No, that
our next
door neighbors
MR. KAVANAUGH: MR. KORESH:
are talking.
Huh?
E
Yeah.
the first
one. 92
Q _
[gap]
..
MR. KORESH:
92
V
What did Mark say?
x
isn't he?
-- whO is
79
27 3 MR.
4 7
5 Mark?
6A MR. 7 MR.
R 92
8 MR.
9 Mark,
MR. 10 KAVANAUGH:
11 MR.
12
interview.
13 MR. 14 guy.
15
fair chance,
5 16
17 the
18 different
19 MR.
20 here? 21 MR.
22 It'll be
KAVANAUGH: -~
'| E
and bring them to me.
upi
just a few
get two
23
there but
a few
to, you
it slowly.
we're trying to do
92 92
92
=.
K 80
i I .IQ, don't want to get any of yourpeople excite ou y
MR. KAVANAUGH: Youknow, people -- we're All different. I'll tell you, we, we, we're soall
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, are you? MR. KORESH: Yeah. I have two women
pregnant.
92
92 X
i >
I
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
C
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, that'sgreat.
f
i E B1
the truth.
Um~hum. A
MR. KAVANAUGH:
my attorney
that
*
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
-- Gary
Coker.
Coker? Yeah.
pizza party
mannered?
Yeah.
to tell know
him
religion. He
O
your children so well mannered. hum . MR . KAVANAUGI-I :Um
9 ,
x
F 82
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. David, how did you, how did you -- you, you just know so much from the
92
b
it s
servant.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. .
MR. KORESH: And John wrote down that
Laodicea, in Chapter4 the Angel says, come here up now John and I'llyou show that which must be hereafter.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.
Judgment regards in to the case of this whole world. MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. i
MR. KORESH: And John saw that all the i Heaven
natidns, you
yeah. '
MR. KORESH: And that's why I'm her I'm like your attorney.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right, uh-huh. MR. KORESH: See, I'm a mediator.
Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH:,
question was asked in God's judgment who only worthy. Let me tell you about my world, okay? '
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, yeah. l MR. KORESH: You see, when you read te story
of Genesis --
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Um-hum.
k 85
MR. KAVANAUGH:
No, I
don't.
MR. KORESH:
Well, you
know why
God said
to
and remultiply
the Earth"?
me about my Father
me tell
you abont
>
me.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Umhum.
i
always
.
9
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
k
~ 86
bnd
evil. Those who realize that there are stars above the Heaventhere's and to be worlds got past Orion }MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
work. R
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. i
MR. KORESH: -- you know? So God had do separate from men and give them a choice to do tmeir
own thing and then when men have found that their own
says, Children -- talkingto me, you know? And itsays like this,Who sits on the throne -- " i
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. i MR. KORESH: - who do yougive the book to?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
92
C .
87
MR. KORESH: And so the one who loves you more than you could ever realize and it comes in the
don't, don't they one another. love You know, if a brother iswrong and erring you with yourspiri tu al, Paul says, restores indiscernible! consider you rself
least you also be tempted.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
II
learn
I 92
92
-know?
k i 88
I,
<-
92 MR.
in this
great country
I ;
hav
MR. KAVANAUGH:
people that
God require
seals and
i E
89
.
I
I
I
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
indiscernible!. ;
MR.
it right
here
MR.
outside?
MR.
said they
MR.
were --
don't you?
MR. were about -MR.
right?
threequarters of a mile.
92
90
Are they
at the
gate now?
in background! okay.
give them
okay. Remember
what you .
MR. KORESH:
We want you to
send them
their grandparents,
okay?
their
92
i
I
people --
Q 0
1"..
r 92
rdach
MR. KORESH:
Yeah, Scott.
I know
th but
the kids
you afterwards.
--
at? 808! --
808!, right,
689 --
MR. KORESH:
- 689-4457.
and, and
what's3their
&
92
;92
KAVANAUGH= Okay.
KORESH: 1333 --
r I
KAVANAUGH: 133 --
I 92
I
Apartment LMR.
I I
line, David.
MR MR MR MR MR MR
that!last
l 92
92 I
9 .
93
MR. KORESH:
Hawaii.
MR. KORESH:
Okay?
on, let
% brief
i I
need to
send th
I don't want to get them spooked out. MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I understand. We
em out.
I get in touch with them, okay?This is the gran of these children that are coming out, okay? 3 if we can get in touch with them and Davidwant got to make sure, you know, they get together -MR. KORESH= Indiscernible!
dparents
anymore indisce
SCO 92 I
he're
while
rnible!.
' ;
if -MR. KORESH: No, I, I just
g. ,
barely canimove my
right leg
every
send
- after -
they get
the kids
MR. KAVANAUGH:
to -they'regoing to
tim we
'
y it
MR. KORESH: Are they going down the drive-no, they'd be telling us if they did. You got akradio
with them don't you?
next room. They're there? Can you tell me is tHe
> r
there?
Q
l > I F
.
+
? 95
I i
I
F
Yeah. And,
there now,right? E
92 92 A
1. "'
96
Indiscernible female
voice in
the
background.!
MR. KORESH:Okay. The car is
_
at thelgate.
5
be out in
children will
or two.
good.
,
E
two. Okay,
get there you'll have them talk to us, right? MR. KAVANAUGH: When I get -when they get
1
right here
okay?
to
to talk
to them
own. n?
a minute.
| 92
vid
said
to be --
KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
KORESH: --
don't be uneasy.
yeah, just be patient,
KAVANAUGH: Yeah,
He --
we need
to get
a car with
'
to them.
Well
they, they
a walkie
I
or just
I I
so we can, you
mess-ups happen.
KORESH: Uh-huh.
> l 92 I
x I
--
KORESH: All
right.
..
time, not this time, with a
i
l ea
David is promised by
God that God would rule over Israel through his seed. So Davidwrites in the psalm and the Psalmis 89. You
got it there?
one sebond.
If theytake that
go andthat she's
come back and
a
1
MR. KAVANAUGH: She's going to bring outiall the children. She's back. coming She's going to bring
them out every time, the samelady so we have the same
92
i 92
KAVANAUGH= Wait Okay. a minute, one %KAVANAUGH: Psalm 89, what number?
KAVANAUGH: Psalm 89.
Baby crying!
MR KORESH: What's,wrong what's with her?
Okay She don't to leave? wantWho? Indiscernible! The car is she out there now? The car's driving
Indiscernible female voice in the
background !
them, the
car
KAVANAUGH= says David he thinks they got is driving away. Tell usright away, we
0
need to know. Okay.
MR. KORESH:
9 ,
E 100
I think we got them and -5
door. What They can't open the
do you mean you can't open the door? Our front door
is, is jammed? well -voice in the lndiscernible female
background! E
away for?
car?
MR. KORESH:
Yeah, let
them, let
them,
the
kids out.
We need to, we
MR. KAVANAUGH:
get these
let them
go out t
Indiscernible female
background.!
voice
in the
~ they're loo
MR. KORESH:
101
is
out
MR. KORESH:
The -okay,
the, the
car is
it started
leaving.
wasn't, itweenie
right.
out now
1 .
the flashlight.
car
We're going to do
@-
i
was 5E
-a
K ? 102
I
sometimes communications,
mess up.
*
r
the ligh
So,
psalm says 1
Chuck to come
indiscernible!
there? Man
in
I
something. Chuck
Is, is the truck
103
Ithink
it's just
Indiscernible male voice in the background.! MR. KAVANAUGH: All right, a car? It's okay
td send
I
we're it's, E
1 i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah,Ithink it's [gap] eyI Iwant to apologize to you for the delay. Ifeel real
bad about it.
MR. KORESH:
People are
human.
.", "
what are ~-
I
E
104
K
1
X I
see them?
i 92
' 105
MR. KAVANAUGH:
They see
them and
they're,
now, I
think.
take her,
H
she
Just don't
kid -1
She'll bring
out other
on t
her
MR. KAVANAUGH:
rest. Don't
there.
take the
mother. She
yes, yes
mei
he wants to know.
MR. KORESH:
92
.'k
I 106
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Sita's Cbming
back?
back?
SPEAKER: Yes.
we agreed.
P
listen, 1
Double-E Road
1
92
Ready?
with my
all
listening? go ahead.
talking --
establish
v
forever --
I I v 1
107
C,
to all --
MR. KORESH:
Yeah
-r 92
was Christ
wasn't it?
it says,
"For who in i
Almighty can
MR. MR.
E
92
Lamb, right?
MR. MR.
I mean, only th
indiscernibl
M. MR.
e! his faithful,
KAVANAUGH: Right.
92 >
92 E
92 I
E
> 92
108
1 of
all them
that are
about him."
2 MR.
KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
3 MR.
5 Lord
6 7
MR. KORBSH: " -or to they faithfulnesh round about thee?" which -means you're to do going
just what he says in that book, right? T
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, sir.
C
,
wavesthereof arise,
stillest them, you know, God's to going put the i enemies out after this. "Thou has broken Ra-had in
92 x x
'
city --
' 92
1 109
there?
&
that youbring intoyour house so she was the only i ordained minister from God and all she brought to her
house they were saved. But shewas asshe was
indiscernible! spiritual --
a strong
arm.
the
of my enemies is I teach
thine and the earth is also thine, as for the world and
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Right.
i E110
l
like the
gentiles and
to the gentilds,
and
him teach
the truth
it will
who receive
be redeemed
the sight
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH:
"Justice and
judgment
truth
are the
habilitation of
before they
they throne:
face," that's me.
mercy and
shall go
l I
See, before
God
k comes
and whips
> 92 92
M. KORESH:
seals, man.
-- I'm trying to
teach
E
the seven
MR. KAVANAUGH:
I understand.
This the
key of
David,
it
in the light of
watching me
Tape 3!
thy countenance."
he's --
K I
111
Telephone ringing!
92
here's what I
Steve?
'
92
QQ
s i
-F 112
to do
92
it, I
want to
we've, we've already put one message on there and +STEVE: I haven't heard any.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah,David ear STEVE: We want to
MR.
hd
it. [gap]
92
resolve it.
3l 1 1;! 'YI|"i92l|'92|192,92I92'|||92vi||92';i|I||P"||92 1 ll, 123 11 /l__92> 14567 92{{92 1 111 C 89012 1 ;1 rt-r"'92Y 1 222222 3 456 789 LIE: 0 12345
92
Tape 4!
I'll;
I
i
indiscernible!. Thank you, 468-MR. KAVANAUGH: Did you guys call have one of indiscernible! what's, what's the
V ~
those
indiscernible!.
Phone ringing!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Indiscernible! This
k
1
is Jim.
I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Hold on just a minut%. Get me somebody in therewith phone a numberthat's g
indiscernible! that the indiscernible! guys can call.
867-
MR. KAVANAUGH:
6605.
3 3
>
I
Indiscernible
Yeah.
yeah, but they're kids. That's right. Oh, Iagree, yeah, and we get the ~- Imean a school bus is a ,
nonthreatening thing.
get something.
I'll talk
back
to Phil,
to bend
maybe wecam
a little ~
indiscernible! come
> v r
MR. KAVANAUGH:Indiscernible!
yeah. Yeah.:
>
OO
92 i
-
who is
that? l
I guess?
}
How manypeople
GARY: Well,
right off
the truth
is
x dont
know. I
person, another
it was
person got it
girl that
in the
a two-year-old
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: That's
Yes, was
terrible.
shot.
'
MR. SCHNEIDER:
about -
think there
i l
GARY: Yeah,
yeah. '
92 i
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- from this morning on so I} haven't been able -- I've talked to a lot of people
about a lot of things.
L 92
GARY: Yeah,
yeah.
Well, how
do you think ~
I I
Imean,
with the
situation that's
gone on
so far
an
the, the
be able to resolve
-I
take care
you 2
-- I'm here
because the
many --
to harmoniz
--
in fact
and made
GARY: Um-hum.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- it
very clear.
So
92 > 92 phone i
GARY: Yeah,
is he
doing an
Ibelieve
interview now?
he is --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Uh-huh.
Yes,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
- or
Iknow
his mother
and left
a line
on the
i
so he s trying
to alleviate
the --
does he
feel by, --
by having
an
explain things
MR. SCHNEIDER:
indiscernible!.
Well, you
know
GARY:
about it?
-from
his side,
that he
feels bette
the
I I I
I
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-to
be able
CO talk
with
people and
anyone, we
we don't want to
want everyone
force our
beliefs upon
always to --
have the
indiscernible! to,
GARY: Um-hum.
to evaluate
I I I I
I I I
giving a
hear.
good
what they
M.
there, if
SCHNEIDER: And
if they
--
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- and
concise and
so forth
well, you
I I I
I
92
00
I 92
every one of us.
.
yeah.
l 92 s > ?7
GARY: Yeah,
make a statement to
the world
in a i
i
scholar
the doctrine.
scholars that were 70years old, one man could speak 60 languages, they had nothing to say in response because
they knew the man had something.
GARY: Well, you know, I - 1
when I tried to
3
K V I 1
92 I 1
I
that if he has the truth because I
U
18
want to
live .
gforever. Ever
since I
GARY: Um-hum.
was a very
small child
--
at the
stars and
--
going, how
about?
GARY: Yeah.
what's thi
earth a cemetery
6,000 o
and
here, plants,
relatives can
accidents. God,
be taken out of
your life,
friends,
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER: But I've never really to know God. I tried it the Christian routine
majority of
really known
my life
and in honesty,
GARY: Um-hum.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Indiscernible! claim
to know
that's
up
the things
that not
many have
gotten to
hear recent
iy
but those
that have
gotten to
indiscernible! would
have gotten
and wouldhave
i
MR. SCHNEIDER:
But --
It --
you know, I --
with his
He said
injuries?
he's sore.
i 92 $
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MR. SCHNEIDER:
Yeah, well,
yeah, well,
he's sore and, you know, he's bee GARY: Boy I wouldthink he'd more than sorei
MR. SCHNEIDER:
And so far,
I mean,
>
everything -so --
stopped andeverything
there must -'
be a
lot
today and
indiscernible!.
GARY: --
all wondering
1 @ l
| >
110
MR.
is IGARY: -Yeah.
SCHNEIDER: Well,
the
truth of
the matter
MR. SCHNEIDER:
- what
indiscernible! the
very onset
of
the
thing-r I
MR. SCHNEIDER:
about, "Stop, we've got
I heard
women and
him yelling
children here."
somethin
I heard it
Y.
up 1
i r
x 3
92
it was
amazing.
of turned
Iguess
everything sort
I I
i
we don't -I
your
know, I
anything like
that but
Yeah, know, andhis I life mean have great'respect and like heyou hashad all
the law
trying to
protect
for
1 1 1 others
2 3
freedoms and,
and --
ll
GARY: Well,
it's a shame. I
think so
many
times in history
things happen
MR. SCHNEIDER:
indiscernible!.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
there -definitely
GARY: Yeah.
it was confusi
th ere. I
mean -4
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- I
- like,
he had hoped that Robert would have gone back toyou and saidthis manis really interested in showing the E Bible andhe would have loved to sit down with you
_people -GARY: Yeah.
dl
1
x 1
i 92
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- and, and answer any questions, if you would have hada warrant for him he
would have bee
n happy
to go with you.
GARY: Umhum.
MR. SCHNEIDER: And if youwant to know why we have been -- like if you hear the interviewhe has
92 . 92
O I '
92 F 1 2 3 4 S 6 7
. I
3 12
goes back
to the
Beck
r
and just
that I
getting to
you know
understan
hope, Ihope
don't want
you think
there hurt
and I
do
an't resolve
this. A
1 92
good. see if w h E by which
on out.
aa
apons down
li
and come
you about.
well, I
d be glad. I think -~
1
92 >
GARY: --
Ithink
we can
do that,
Ithink
we
r
92 A 92
<
can do that, I'm, I'm I don't -have any doubt of Iknow you're concerned about your security in thene
based on what's happened but Ithink -MR. SCHNEIDER: Exactly.
appropriate suitable and and that we can, we can get92 this matter attended to. I mean, I'm - there's, just
there's much not sense for this to continue on and MR. SCHNEIDER: Iagree, Iagree. I'd like to get back to wherewe were with Jim y on the92 }
~
I s
see if
we can
-that's --
N 92
92
GARY: Yeah.
that, you
take a little
L v
I 92
and a rest.
i 92 >
14
and sleeping
now so
GARY: Um-hum.
--
GARY: Yeah,
yeah. -
MR. SCHNEIDER: So for that reason I was kihd of formyself, not so much David's but part, Iwas kind
of happy just to take a little break. I'll -course --
v 1
K
GARY: Yeah,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
well, I'll,
But of
GARY: --
thing when, you know,we've so got many people out her from so many different organizations and agencies. ,
when westart demonstrating that we're having children come onout and that everybodys healthy and when, wheni
because we,
92
GARY: Um-hum.
can look
at them
and
check them
over and
GARY: Yeah.
--
92
1
} I
ihealthy and
--
GARY: Yeah, I
of the
the, the
ladies from
kids and
the Child
there's genuine
Yeah,
So, how
Service are
taking real
affection and
good dare
-x
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Yeah.
another two out?
we appreciate
that. 1
can we work to
Well,
get
3
&
that
l r
GARY: Sure,
I would.
go on.
do tha
Yeah, I
really would
like to
MR. SCHNEIDER:
replaced Jim.
now
you want.
is that
talking with,
Steve?
MR SCHNEIDER .:
Does -Okay.
David you're
92 I 1 92
l 92
talking to
him right
GARY: Yeah.
no W and
--
David is
-- I'm
92
likes dealing with Jim, he'sso been forthright and -GARY: Yeah.
honest with
MR. SCHNEIDER:
him.
-- frank
1 16
*GARY: Well, I
MR. SCHNEIDER:
to him
p GARY:
think now,
In fact,
indiscernible!.
Yeah.
He said,
i
1
Wayne indiscernible!
3
'
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- I
understand many
opposi
and different
things than
says, "No,
i
k I >
way
all
what he
5
k
i
v
his honesty,"
and,
I I
me right now.
Ithink we can continue
but, but
l
1 .
2
_
GARY: --
R K
3
17
I for a while
maybe Ican
on you
to, to
tell David
that ---
SCHNEIDER: Well
6 GARY:
7 and, and, and
-you
he also
like Jim
8 MR.
9 minute.
10 GARY:
11 me.
Sure, Iwish
you'dthat. do Excuse
R
F
l
12 Gap!
13 MR.
14 GARY:
SCHNEIDER: Gary?
Yeah?
15 MR.
X K
David? 1
16 GARY: 17 MR.
20 21
ii X 3 a
1 :
23 MR.
E24 story.
18
25
19 MR.
KORESH: Yeah.
y 22
$
92
92
' 1
Ax 18
Steve called comfortable in
to be here for
me up. talking
a while
I know, I
know you
were real
with Jim
and, but,
same things
that, that
MR. KORESH:
my word,
MR. KORESH:
a 1
GARY: What,
That's what he
made me promise
MR. KORESH:
GARY: Well
said.
i
1 i
GARY: Yeah,
but, but
I mean,
he --
GARY: And
he meant
that.
do
is is
from the
of the
closer.
property and
barn and
comin
GARY: No,
away, and, and --
GARY: Yeah,
mentioned this
before and
we told
just got
-- Steve
they said
bui
the tactical
lding.
team,
1 l
92
in that
David, you
building,
GARY: No,
re National--they
are
suggesting that. see anybody
~ r
know, we
don't want to
hurt. After
else
I , 92
i i i 1
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1
you know nobody's togoing do anything toharm you or the kids. Now, what happened today wasa tragedy and
we just don't want to make it worse.
you agree with that.
I mean, I, I
know
coming?
92 K 4
92
0 K 20 MR. KORESH: No --
GARY: --
Well, they
-2
MR. KORESH:
you have over the
You know,
National Guard?
D0 h
GARY: The
National Guard's
i n . 92
you know
that.
GARY:
No, I, Ijust
ago from
didn't know -I
I kn ew they
were in
the area.
in the
perimeter.
MR. KORESH: Y hea ,
they re
in our
property.
92
GARY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: So
you need,
you need
to get
with those
to pull
well, and,
back.
and the
y .W
e , 11
word's
1 I 1
i 92
right as send a
Someb odys
down,
K -21
to tll
out.
to work with
more kids
GARY: Okay.
MR. KORESH:
one of
them out.
GARY: Well,
MR. KORESH:
And Jim, Jim says we'll, weill they want to do and what we Mant
92
negotiate and
to do.
see what
GARY: Well,
MR. KORESH:
But the
first
thing I
want to
do
is get
my babies
out.
GARY: Well,
M. KORESH:
I, I
want to
help you
do than.
on
Now, so
when Jim
gets back
the phone
--
be back
Well, he,
he told
me, he
promised me
that --
GARY: Well,
you know,
~
there's a lot of
>
people here
E
E
made the
agreement with.
I
Now, David --
22
GARY: Well,Jim's agreement is good with me.
MR. KORESH: It is not, that's not what we
agreed on.
Steve told me how you want to work this out with us and
you want to negotiatewith us
Jim said?
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Yes?
Gary?
continue -"
-1
GARY: Um-hum.
M. SCHNEIDER: -- I said, "We'll give you
said, "Steve,,
k
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92
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1 23
GARY: Um-hum.
MR. SCHNEIDER: Wewill continue
HOW .'
1
to do sd.
GARY: Well, Ithink we should do it right MR. SCHNEIDER: Well -- well, get Jim onthe
phone then. I
now? ,
thing dependent upon Jim though, Steve? i MR. SCHNEIDER: It may be because if he said
he gave his word and that's the way it was going tobd
and that's where --
GARY: I
know. ,
Ihope David
24
will be open enough. If, if you're both genuine in wanting to resolve the situation peacefully 4
MR. SCHNEIDER:You know, I.understand the
psychology you're using.
I'm
I
*
L
of the
5
I
predicament we're in -
-you
indiscernible! of
l i
bit further
said to
make sense
want to talk to
would it?
MR. SCHNEIDER: It -
well, it
92
indiscernible!.
s ' 25
no, because I want to talk to
GARY: No,
anybody in there.
can talk
to me but at
this
92
GARY: Right.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
indiscernible!.
-- so
that's where it
and I agree
Y v 1 l
about it
I~
GARY: Well,
92
GARY:
E
know, Can't92
1
Steve.
GARY: Okay.
it
'
_ 26
92
f
Jim, if Jim --
was not
-'
GARY: If
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- what he left as hisword, I said, that's and fine ifyou wanted to gethim up
I, 92
and, and
GARY: You know, it almost soundslike -MR. SCHNEIDER:-- but kids suffer because of this -then if --
GARY: --
and --
K
>
92 K x
GARY: Right.
,92
27
relationship.
GARY: Right.
P 92
that little
time
.
92 92 i 92 92
~- well,
that'm
92
what we're
doing right
now. 1
K .
GARY: N0?
all.
In fact,
that's
-- we're picking
talk to you --
us and that's
to
even going
to
sleep indiscernible!.
GARY: Yeah.
you to
28
GARY: Yeah.
and see
--
everything is
still fine.
GARY: Yeah. _
that.
,
1
we're getting to a place here where, you know, I don't want to do anything jumpy or foolish or off-the-wall or
' 2
agree with
you there.
made a lot
of sense to he.
needed to
take a,
take a breath
and take
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Pardon?
You mean
like me?
'
MR. SCHNEIDER:
You mean
like me?
GARY: Exactly,
exactly, so
haven't, haven't I E
that >
K
GARY: I
little break for
know, I
a while.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
92 i
92
For a few
minutes, but
he's
that he
versa -~
had and
" --
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- " -- we've given you the trust," he thought that was great. We made very good
92
92 I
00
- =1
1
30
i
2
mean that.
GARY: But you know, before a little while 1 agowe were talking about you did say you didn't see any reason why we couldn't go ahead and make some
*
s
that's I know, but -- that's Ibecause was going to leave it -- or, or where David was the one began -GARY: Yeah.
and, you
3l
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- and not to take anything away from you, but it began so well that way and
indiscernible!.
relationship.
~
92
of dhe
.I
32
there. They- you know, they want totrust A indiscernible! allthe more and a lot of them do, but
at the same time there's a lot of people that are
earlier.
strength.
like he was insome, some pretty significant
.
i
l I
not --
C
~ 33
he looks
good to
me. N
to walk around? ;
he's relaxingi
Q
~
way we could E
~
Iright
back, Gary?
2 GARY:
Sure, no,
that's fine.
3 MR.
5
,5
,6
' sore to
be
GARY: Well,
you know,
s
a rest
an 92 d I
57
.
and --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
9 10 what
11 I 12
GARY: -I '
m going
GARY: -GARY: --
stretch my
Ijust --
legs. But
Iwou
--
I
l
3 92
GARY: And,and I think Idon't want you 1 to center everything on, on just individuals because i
this is more important than just
MR. SCHNEIDER: GARY: N0, I, one person
-I -I I E
here.
Iagree.
know --
Iwouldn't
ish as
to, you
yeah.
--
GARY: Yeah,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
peg anything
into one
92
l3 5
little hole,
but -~
of --
well, you
know, if
me for a
MR. SCHNEIDER:
i
92
what happenedand 1
this is --
and everybody wantsthat. And, and I'm here to help X you in any way I can, and I want to see those little E
children come out, and I want to see you come out and It
want to see David come-out and all the
and I don't want to see -E
women in there
MR. SCHNEIDER: No, well, that's you -- know, that's we what want to do is talk with you and start
working that out.
92
K .36
be here all
GARY: -- I think I- you know, I, hope that the same sort of trust -~ Ji m trusts
enough to have metalk to
tell you a lot and if he
Iwould
me .
should
92 r
to have
a little
-- you know, I, I do
allow for us to have
for allowinglme
i
appreciate that
a little
break92
92
MR. scrmsxnsm
-- my butt's
sore and --
GARY: Well
--
sitting here
useful time spent because we've gotten to know other better, we've, we've stopped a1
misunderstandings,Ithink we've estab
it's been
each
92
3
1 x K
faith. We've hopefully demonstrated t lished some good 1 K 1 sincerity and our genuine interest in o you our, our 1
And Iwant you andDavid to think aboueverybody inside.
MR. SCHNEIDER:Okay.
,a92 92
tthose
things --
GARY: --
after you
rest.
5 37
GARY: ~to resolve this but, you know, be assured, you know, we'll, we'll take care of this
92 1
92
92
92
92 38
GARY: must It one be of your people. You %MR. SCHNEIDER: Hang on, hang on.
GARY: Umhum.
on.
00
GARY: Well, you're ~-
p
39
- there
was a semi or
=
@
door. y
GARY: Well, the're certainly people on the
perimeter but there's nobody onyour property and if 1 they were up to the front doorthat, that would have do
be on your property, right? I mean, do you think someone would be foolish enough to come up to your
front door with what's gone on?
92
morning?
92 92
i
I
mean -~
thoughtthat what
92
40
happened.
it's a you
tragedy that we don't want to see repeated, but I, I-MR. SCHNEIDER: Gary, boy,
what -GARY: Yeah?
I'll tell
the tactical people here andI, I saidIwas very 1 concerned that despite what they were telling meIkeep
getting these reports
they -
-- Kevin
92
Q
asked me if that our guys. I
I
; 41
out there --
there's no reporters --
92
GARY: Um-hum.
Gap!
yeah.
but I mean
what I
--
word, you seem relaxed, you seem, you know, like you
want to resolve it and end it all,
what we're going to do.
S 1 42 I" 92
4
door.
E
y
GARY: Yeah, that's, fine. that's I hope, F hope you and David had a little chance to chat beforey
MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, actually
phone call and -GARY: Yeah.
just got
--
a few
minutes and --
GARY: You're getting calls from the press MR. SCHNEIDER: You know, you, you get calls
from just about everything ~GARY: Yeah. .
,_
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- or everybody today. I mean, you know, relatives and friends and pressand --
92
92
92
s
v W
1 43
92 92 1
i I
92 I
GARY: No, I don't think anybody did. I _ MR. SCHNEIDER: no, Oh no way in the worlh,
notat the cost for any -a human life, you know. iI,
mean, makes us all sick, everyone of us -GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER: -~ seriously, and -GARY: Well,I'm hoping that we can work
you don't
5
1
Q O
A 44
my biggest
concern is
that the
Okay. ',
Gary.
-:
I my
GARY: -need ~-
get, get
the rest
that you
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Thanks.
you call
thank you so
GARY: Okay.
to you
a little
2 45
later. ~
GARY: Yeah.
Dial tone!
noises!
Electronic noises.!
92 92 92
to get
a hold of us.
GARY:
I didn't hear.
~ I
h 46
92 MR. SCHNEIDER: You know, the crazy things 3
i
the --
it ring a few times and we did, picked up it and it's} like there is nothing on there. You can hear kind of E like, you know, it's live but you can't hear anything I
l
92
GARY: Yeah.
a
r
saying if, if you're there try the othernumber and -GARY: Well, I'm, sorry I'm aboutthat,
of some activity out in thefront ofyour place from, from your folks and, andIwas a little concerned about
1V
O O i
that and I wanted to I
47
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Well,
Well, what
kind of
activity?
out
some movement of
front door.
some people
near
the front
near the
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Nobody, no
thought it
might
have been a
i the
V
they wouldn't have seeh
building. No
GARY: Well,
Ihave
to accept
your word on
-- I
around he says.
But nobody from inside this
MR. SCHNEIDER:
92
. 48
GARY: Well,
we're keeping
1
v
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- when ~about ago and, you know, the phone was ringing
to get that thing
straight --
i
92 |
GARY 2 Y ah .
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- and so I finally got to
2
1
92
about some
bit but not
of the
too much
=92
92
0.
w
'
_ 49
because he
seemed -~
GARY: Yeah.
tired and
--
.I
SONG more Q out.
x
g so
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Well, yeah.
Maybe could
you
-- well,
you know,
the truth. --
Im,
right now
MR. SCHNEIDER:
even --
keep your
mind focused
on what's
very
Itold
'
.
is David available to
92
L51
V 92
with it
for all
this time
and --
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- we're just kind of hoping just maybe an hour or twowe can just lay our heads_
bring out a couple more kids while you guys are taking
your nap. Ithink that would bea real positive sigq,
Steve.
think
' E
GARY: --you know, we're certainly --
92
GARY: Yeah.
52
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- we,
we want
all of
them
out, every
last one
of them.
1
don't want to see anybody hurt. 1
-
have their
chance and --
us just to
be done too.
92
: ? S3
and --
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- you know, there might be some that want to do this or that or, you know, we
GARY: Well,
why don't we --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
maybe a group or --
-- see if we can do
it as
GARY: Yeah.
comes so we can
1
0
here --
everybody
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Yeah,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
92
54
92
ultimately whatever, whatever agree we to it has to be just that, it has to bean agreement between, between
to, youknow, facilitatingit just about any way you want as long as it doesn't endanger anybody, we just,
us all. And, you know, mean I we're, we're open-min just don't see any need for that. There's been enough
blood shed today tolast a lifetime and it's just
tragic --
So yeah,I'd, I'd
we can --
GARY: You know, again, we've, got we've A plenty oftime totalk butI think I amconcerned most
pointedly about the children -MR. SCHNEIDER:Right .
92
H S5
it would
92
n L
'
,
..
--
knew what he was doing, doing the same thing -GARY: Yeah.
W now too,
*56
MR. SCHNEIDER:
know -I
GARY: Um-hum.
Yeah, I
do, because,
you
the truth
that -
just such a i
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: --
"--
to, to
differences
9 1 l
1
GARY: -
"--
which,which shows that theydon't towant seeanyone else hurt," and that's positive and I'dto like keep building on that. And it demonstrates time and again
to, to everybody involvedthat, you know, reasonable
QO
5,57 people can, can do reasonable things.
L MR. SCHNEIDER: Right.
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER: Okay, Jim, I guess -GARY: No, Gary, I'm Gary.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Freudian
I mean
--
slip, yeah.
I guess I'm
and --
GARY: Sure.
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- I,
talking with you of GARY: Okay course -.
I want to continue
X
GARY: Sure,
we talk next --
MR. SCHNEIDER:Okay.
' _,
58
do it the
like --
of if,
if yqu'd
GARY: I,
but I'll be
herein the interim and, and, and we -MR. SCHNEIDER:' All right.
GARY: -can work this out.
GARY: Iknow,
Iknow
he would,
Steve, but
mean a real
to --
lot to
me if he
he feels
GARY: Oh,
many people
Iknow,
but just,
there --
just as
there's
in David'sflock
MR. SCHNEIDER:Iunderstand,
GARY: --
yeah.
want to
limit his
GARY: --
attention to
Okay.
in his
MR. SCHNEIDER:
flock and
I
59
GARY: Yeah.
Well, get
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Thanks.
we'll >
will be.
I60 now?
Okay. Thanks.?
MR. SCHNEIDER: Okay. Thank you, Gary. GARY: Indiscernible! from you,okay? MR. SCHNEIDER: Okay. Thanks,Gary.
I 92
GARY: Okay.
Gap!
indiscernible! Administration.
MR. CUMINGS:
0
Phil Lewis.
0
Gap!
GARY: Hello.
92
61
Hello. Steve?
Yeah.
buddy?
Idon't know.
don't know?
GARY: Well
--
closer to
the
are
'62
'
MR. SCHNEIDER: They're the on property. GARY: All right. That's getting me mad
won't?
92
interfere with that, and, and, you know,will, I I will talk tothem immediately after we get offthe -- f
63
you could
fire and
know, like
so if
-- I
--
92
of what
amazed ushfow
And, and
even with now here you'vethese got guys back here. so we can go on with
-
would sure 5
64
whatever there is out there indiscernible!. j 92 GARY: Where exactly do you seethese guys?
a compass
heading on that? .
MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, I'm not looking at 1
anything right now, but it's at the
MR. SCHNEIDER: Yeah.
north side.
shed out
MR. SCHNEIDER: Not really a little shed, from --it's block the --a cement-block building I
believe.
V
'
:65
many.
I MR.
know --
they're up to .
you know, I'm ndt
of the building?
the agreement.
GARY: Yeah.
as
all night long, thatthey did see these guys back there and what bothers me is you guys say -then earlier you didn't any have information on thatthat they shouldn'
be there.
GARY: Yeah. Well --
I-
called me back you were going to give me the names of the kids that were going to come out next. y
MR. SCHNEIDER: What, what are thenames of
MR. SCHNEIDER:Right.
GARY: Um-hum.
rev
Gap! V
Dial tone! Phone
Phone ringing!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #6: Yeah, I dont see whyhe wouldn't answer. Do you want to ask him?
ringing! Phone
l
we --
MR. SCHNEIDER: 5252. , GARY: --S252. That's number the right whene
you are now?
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Yes.
'68
No.
69
GARY: Yeah,
yeah. '
the
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- it
more, and, and you know -GARY: Yeah.
GARY: Don't, don't misinterpret whatithat stuff means. The, the way the federal government
responds to these things -- E
i
GARY: Yeah,
yeah --
MR. SCHNEIDER:-- in
GARY: That's right.
the past
--
I
70
MR. SCHNEIDER: I knowa lot of the people involved are just peopledoing their job anddon't
understand and --
GARY: But,
but you
have to
know --
GARY: -in the, in the Weaver case from the moment negotiations started there wasn't a single shot fired andthere wasn't a singleperson hurt after that
Gary? ;
GARY: I'm with the MR. SCHNEIDER: FBI. You are?
GARY:Um-hum. y
MR. SCHNEIDER: What? Out of Dallas org --
71
becausecan I get to, to hear from you and David and, and come out witha freshapproach and, and that's what
I want to try to do, Steve. ~
and like
now I
--
f u
there, Steve?
Hello? Hello?
WAYNE: Yes,sir.
GARY: Go ahead.
_
telephone.
Y 72 GARY: OD.
WAYNE GARY:
on now?
Yeah. ~-5979.
S979. Okay,
Wayne?
WAYNE GARY:
now? r. 92
Yes, it
is
92 92
Okay, Wayne
WAYNE GARY:
Yes, I
can
92
this phone
David?
line
WAYNE
up.
don't.
GARY: Yeah, it gap!it, it almost appeared likea loosewire or something because whenwas, I talking to Steve last time it all of a sudden started to, to, to break up and then itwent out like thene's
>
92
.73
instrument problem.
And we
have enoughother problems today, we don't need bad telephones. Well, can I talk to
me try thank you.
and get
line open.
Unidentified voices
him on the phone down here.
in background.!
in background.!
WAYNE: Indiscernible!
GARY: Hello?
92
call you.
WAYNE: Hello?
Can you
hear me?
GARY: Yes,
this is
Gary. Who
is this?
1 -- werd you
,
Steve has his
GARY: Oh.
1 92
92
74
WAYNE: --
give you
a call.
GARY: Okay.
WAYNE: Yes,
able to get through to mebecause he's still having 92 difficulty, would, would you have him call meback on,
on the line that you'reright on now? you -i WAYNE: Sure thing. Can
GARY: What's that?
me acall?
But let's,
GARY: - Byron to give you a call, okay? But I don't want to tie you up with Byron if I need to
talk to
GARY: All
Phone ring!
GARY: Hello?
right, bye-bye.
75
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Yes,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Hello, Gary?
Steve?
Yes. -
GARY: I
some problems
understand from
phone?
Wayne that
you found
with your
MR. SCHNEIDER:
and of a sudden bang --
with you
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- it
just
went --
n --
it'S
done that
all through
the night.
GARY: Did
instrument or --
you replace
it with
another
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Yes, exactly.
a loose wire or
"
I, I
is.
V
children
92y
92
76
here. '
V
is Jim
GARY: Well, as soon as hegets hereIllput him on, but he's not here now and I, I don't what kmow
his ETA is --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Well --
to talk to
anything
i
MR. SCHNEIDER:Okay.
1 77
GARY: --
talk with
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Iknow.
-- Y
may
g
92
;7
GARY: Yeah, I will but I just wantto get one, one thing straightbecause think I therewas
literal, literal misinterpretation. when Jim said talk to me, what -Jim never intended for you to3talk only
What hewas talking about was the other line that was going on with Wayne and wedidn't want to have
two separate things going at confusing. You
me to do this, this, this
one point in timeand
to him.
this92and to
that
have to sit
and, and,
MR. SCHNEIDER: I know,seeIhave gome 92 through thisconversation on numerous times. GARY: Yeah. If David -I mean, like3David,
Ihave
trust --
GARY: -I havetrust in
he talked to Jim.
David,-too, and}
79
here's his
exact -
he said. be hours
be hours
it could
92
on one person.
moment.
GARY: Yeah . 1
MR. SCHNEIDER: Yeah, theywere just letting us know about what you guys got all out there in the
field and, you know 1
80
GARY: Well,
secret about all that
-- you know, they're just reporting back asalways. GARY: Yeah, yeah. Well, you
notoriety this
it's a
angels over, over everybody out there in thatcompound. MR. SCHNEIDER: Right, right. k
GARY: And in fact,
I'd like to see come on out. what we were talking when I --
there'slittleiangels two
* i
lot of
81
strength for
Jim.
GARY: Okay.
Well, Steve
-~
Jim +
MR. SCHNEIDER:
MR. SCHNEIDER: I've, I've never seen him like this. If that's he what heardand saidand*thats
what the conversation was
GARY: Yeah.
about --
MR. SCHNEIDER:-- it
worked so well.
GARY: Well, I know, and, and haven't, haven't and youI had sucha good discussion and 5 haven't worked we well together? _
The, the reason I'm here isbecause of whatthe manys been able to show with theBible, the statements he?s
82
been able
to produce.
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Well, you
So --
know --
and --
he found
that he wasa reasonable and worthy person. MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, because of -- condition
iback
right back
and,
92
83
and --
'
being I'm not surethat I have, have the ability to even call in to you soI'm, --I'm until we can rectify
that --
r, 92
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: This is --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
- 5252.
GARY: Okay.
number did
You're gap!.
MR. scrmsznsm
92 1
Right.
92
84
L.
GARY: Okay, but I'd just like to leave -MR. SCHNEIDER:Indiscernible! minutes?
GARY: Yeah.
GARY: Byebye.
Pause!
' as
GARY: You know, I was just - took me a
MR. SCHNEIDER: Oh, you were? Okay; GARY: Yeah, but that's all right.
you now.
1I'm with
the, thebosses at the ATF here and I said, listen, these, these folks would like to talk to Jim and they
said Jim is backat a motel somewhere getting some rest
and they said they, they just weren't going to wake him up now, that he'd worked allnight long and they expect
that's reasonable if
you, if
1
David?
'
5 2s
I
his word.
'
bosses
and
shouldn't a problem. be But I don'twe think should waste this precious time and, and not proceed with, you
honest
1
and I, I just don't this want opportunity to passwhere MR. SCHNEIDER: Tell Jimto give us a call as soon as he gets there then. E GARY: Well, that could, that couldbe pretty
87
unreasonable position,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
don't you?
N0, I don't.
GARY: Well,
could I
talk to
David about
it?
Ican't break
92
your
through
t
stayed
i
until 2
you know.
butj
Q
92 88
MR. SCHNEIDER: I am. A GARY: You know, do you think Jim, Jm -MR. SCHNEIDER: I am indiscernible!.
GARY: -would --
you know,
any schmuck
hopefully he does
dkay?
matter is
MR. SCHNEIDER: NO, the, the truth ofithe r though he wants to follow through
GARY: Well ---
indiscernible! --
, 92
MR. SCHNEIDER:
he began with
the person
Q O
89
that stated
indiscernible! he
GARY: Well --
stated --
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- he gave him hisiword and he wants to follow through on that. '
exactly what
---
with him because gave he him his word on that and -,92 92
you know, I, I think, I think we're letting anMR. SCHNEIDER: Why don't you call him and
talk to him?
number or I --
I can find it later on, but that's not the issue. The
90
GARY: Yeah
that
sometime.
Q O
91
-~ 2:30.
MR. SCHNEIDER:I, I
too. .
sat here.
GARY: Neither did 1, I stayed up all night MR. SCHNEIDER: Yeah, were you upthrough the
day?
32 hours.
MR. SCHNEIDER: Well then
ball park -
V
you're the same in
GARY: Yeah, I'm, very I'm tired, bud, you 1 know, I think we've let something artificial here
really destroy a great opportunity for us to, to make
I'm to here talk to you, I'm to here help you, I'm here
to, to
92
-- I
MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, that -g GARY: - enable us to resolve this situation. MR. SCHNEIDER: You heardwhat I justisaid
though -I
GARY: I heard.
p 92
92
about that.
--
know
1C
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Yes?
but youlre,
I--
92
93
GARY: - I know, and I'm going -- I'm -MR. SCHNEIDER: -- gave him his word and he
GARY: - indiscernible! I
mean we were
new day.
GARY: Well, because you want to get them out. You've asked us to help you get them out.
you
1 94
want to
do that I'll
2". v___
all out
Jim do give us
and that's --
if, if
I want
GARY: Okay.
understand, okay
--
MR. SCHNEIDER
calling
us all
the time
MR. SCHNEIDER
-- right
bent over, you've extremely done well with us -GARY: Yeah. MR. SCHNEIDER
MR. SCHNEIDER:
95
it that
way; I
GARY:
can't, I
Um-hum.
can't --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- take
that from
him, you
know, Gary,
. GARY:
Ican't.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
worked the
deal,
Ididn't.
GARY: But
you know,
the way,
the way it
Well, in
to so
a situation
and --
this which
is so
crucial
many lives
-- and
so much
is
at stake
--
going to
do
-- indiscernible!.
that
would jeopardize
your life
or
MR. SCHNEIDER:
put words
into my
GARY: NO,
mouth,
no,
I'm not.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- say
that. y am I
GARY:
Iknow,
to conclude
if you
--
96
I MR.
have to, that --
SCHNEIDER:
you
GARY: --
feel
like that
I--
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- Itold
and --
you understand
what Isaid
from that.
GARY:
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
-- the
MR. SCHNEIDER:
been definitely
GARY:
going on
Iknow,
that Jim
made Jim
have to be made
MR. SCHNEIDER:
had that,
he let
M. SCHNEIDER:
In fact,
we -- you know,
97
and, and, you know, I'm, here helping I'm themgat their
request. Andthey made a decision. They would say yes, Dave - they would say yes, Jim,you, youtan do
I
'
GARY: Well --
92
98
<
as he - justgive him a little more rest and we'll get right at it. It'll give me a chance myself, you know,
I've had only -why don't you lay down yoursalf for an
hour or two indiscernible!
GARY: Well, let me
~
ask -~
99
out, that
by twoby-two
how many
kids do
we have
in
I donft
GARY: Yeah.
kids are in there?
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Yeah.
said, there's.quite a
GARY: Like
have no idea.
what kind
of ball
park figure?
I mean, Ihave
no idea,
yeah.
you know,
he'll give you that figure, he'll -- we'll go ge a head counthere sometime in between and, and makesure
we have all that. I need to still get the names bf around in some of these people. They've all notbeen
100
to lay down
a little
energy --
but I
mean the
on ringing and then no one's on it, but they probably were on it but I don't who -- knows what wasgoing on
indiscernible!. .
actually take it
seemed like
off the
it
it worked
GARY: Yeah.
once or
yeah. Well, youknow, maybe if, if, if you got a headache and youwant to lay down for a while mayhe I couldtalk to David. Maybe if I talked to David or a
while he -- '
92
101
l -. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 l3 14 15 16
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER:I'd like to tell you truth, man,
little bit
j
the lay my head back here a
GARY: Okay.
mean, if
he --
if he
went to
bed
know,that time,
last
him was2:00, 2:30 whenever it was heleft here and I don't know if he went to briefings after he left here or what time he went to bed, I, I don't know. But this
trying to tell you.
MR. SCHNEIDER: I'll, I'll tell you what, you know, I'm so -- the truth is I'm just, you know, can
you tell I'm tired and just so worn? I
indiscernible!.
Q3
24
I'll tell you what more than that, Steve, I'm just really disappointed that we've, we've tocome a, a road
block on this issue.
I02 .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
it,
GARY:Well, I'll,
it's - it'll be that --
can keep"
we're to going actuallyget this thing worked out. I mean, we, we mean that. We're going towork it right
on through.
side.
4 9220
21 22
24
i25 1 o
103
1 2 tell you,
3 mouth is
4 GARY:
I mean, I'll
am, you
know, my; my
hoarse --
dry, I'm -- my
5. M.
7 GARY:
SCHNEIDER: -- Igot.a
Um-hum.
terrible headache. --
81 M. SCHNEIDER: -- it's very hard. You know, 9 I mean I'm, I'mreally having a real hard time, I am, I
10 can't emphasize that enough.
11 GARY: 12 MR.
You do sound
tired.
13 GARY:
14 a lot of
15 .in there
for everybody.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
16 Well, can
18 you
19 GARY:
20 you guys --
kind of
24 GARY: Well, no, Iappreciate your concern 25 and, you know,I'll, I'll, I'll be okay andI'll I-just -I Q
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
10%
I really now.
with you
GARY: Well,
I'm glad
to hear
you say
that,
felt since
--
last night
--
It's not
GARY: -that
MR. SCHNEIDER:
along very
Imean,
well.
have,
there's no, there's no problem there. GARY: Sure, and Ijust -- I'm, I'm kind of
to David and I,
but, you
I --
know, even
right now he's -not even like me he's not with it,
you know, it's, it's just difficult GARY: Yeah. Okay, well, and -listen let's do
get a
little, little
rest. -- I,
if -in
I---
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: the
lay down
for a
MR. SCHNEIDER:
it should it will.
you ring
863-5252,
Ireally
believe
on it
OO
105
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Yeah, would
you
do that?
Just give
me a call
right back.
'
GARY: Okay.
-.-
If, if
ring
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Yes, just
call you
back.
GARY: -in
back, okay?
MR. SCHNEIDER:
a few
minutes, you
call me
right
Iwill
do that.
GARY: Okay? MR. SCHNEIDER: GARY: All right. :Okay. I'll do that.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Okay.
Call me
right
away.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Here
Okay, bye.
we go.
Dial tone!
Phone dialing!
Phone ringing!
signal.!
GARY: They
you should --
have corrected
the problem
and
Dial tone!
Phone dialing!
Dial tone!
voice in
background.!
Phone ringing!
.1016
MR. SCHNEIDER: Hello?
GARY: Okay.
MR. SCHNEIDER: Gary, great.
GARY: Okay.
working.
Now, that
connection is
a lot
gap!.
bothered me.
me too.
me a
thanks Ji--
thanks
GARY: Okay,
Steve.
!
IQ7
MR. SCHNEIDER: I said Jim, didn't I?
to say Jim
but --
GARY: --
you said
in!
Bye.
GARY: Is it
Electronic noises!
dialing! Phone ringing! -
or Steve?
108
this?
GARY: This
is Gary.
wait one
GARY: Sure.
Okay.
We're
Pause! Electronic
GARY: What's that?
noises!
It'S a hold.
it was
did
a mistake.
that come from?
GARY: Oh.
Who am I
talking with?
is this?
GARY: Yeah.
109
f 92
find out
SPEAKER:
well, you'll
enough
GARY: Okay.
wasn't t TY
ing to
be intrusive,
Iwas
jus t was
be friendly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, well -Dave?
GARY: Somebody
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
going to
get Steve or
They are,
SPEAKER:
yeah,
right now.
GARY: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE get Steve. SPEAKER:
They've gone to
GARY: Great.
._ K.
much. Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
Pause!
Yeah, in
fact
Iwas
just
Wayne, Wayne
-- we
got a
message
MR. SCHNEIDER
GARY: Yeah,
MR. SCHNEIDER GARY: Yeah.
Iwas
told to
give you
a call.
No kidding?
MR. SCHNEIDER
,.. 92
Well,
Idon't
know.
Did you
II
11b
get ahold of Jim?
GARY: No,
in the
same
situation. They
blame them.
want him
Steve.
MR. SCHNEIDER:Oh, it
that, that's not goingto happen, but did you, did you
-- you sound like you might have
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Well, I,
like 10
minutes ago
GARY: Yeah?
--
MR. SCHNEIDER:
- and
then I
heard my name
was to get to
So I
the telephone.
was just going to, I was
MR. SCHNEIDER:
just
going to
pass out.
well, I was, I was going to -I
GARY: Yeah,
you. I
Yeah.
was going to
wait to
GARY: said
3 ?
then I
got
the word
that, that
--
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Indi scernible! we
called --
David or Steve.
Q
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 worse? v
I
111
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Ch, boy.
phone.
MR. SCHNEIDER: YES --
GARY:
Idon't know.
could be.
Ithink
I'm
don't mind.
that's fine.
condition any
might have asked you that but Ican't recall what you
told me. Does he have medications that he needs or-MR. SCHNEIDER: He's okay, yeah -GARY: Yeah, yeah.
l 92
I
112
GARY: Yeah.
him or
talk to
him
here.
GARY: Yeah. We're, we're ready to, to receive them at, you know, anytime you want -MR. SCHNEIDER:Right, okay, GARY: -like I told you good. the before.
GARY: Yeah,
yeah.
.' 11,3
Q ;
GARY: Yeah, you know, and that, that
looks --
obviously you
situation ---
Right.
safer and
has gotten
GARY: -come to
that reasonable
--
people can,can --
reasonable solutions
GARY: No,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Okay.
-- I
definitely will
,
be
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Uh-huh.
Thanks, Gary.
g
"114
GARY: Bye-bye.
Pause! Electronic
MR. WILKERSON:
noises! Phne
is this?
fin9$9
Yes, who
for, sir?
a
GARY: Oh
gosh, well
--
--
115
GARY: Well, there's no -- been no change in
be able
to locate
him
from,
some resistance
can you
hold me
a second?
Sure.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Sorry,
I had
something in my resistance
throat.; in terms
of, of
but
But
do
SCHNEIDER: Well,
what kind
of time
GARY: I,
but I'm,
soon and --
GARY: -
But
in the
>
mean time I'd like to, you know, proceed where we were 1
when we left off and -Which was? MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: Well,
about the is in
two little
arrange getting
I16
' h
another call
here.
GARY: Yeah,
Pause!
okay.
on the phone?
Unidentified voices
Electronic noises.!
GARY: Hello?
in background.!
l I
~
Q ~
it'sworking? not -
O
117
this just
happened?
Igot
to --
GARY: Well,
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Ican't talk
Imean as time
to you
.. 92
now. We
you guys --
got to
look
this is this is
bad.
goes on
really not
good at
all. I'll
tell you
GARY: Well
what
--
MR. SCHNEIDER:
when Ihave
I I
11a
you.
Unidentified female voice in background.! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER #2: Gary? GARY: Yes?
other phone talking to GARY: Okay. someone else. Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #14: I put that number on the top of the indiscernible!. Unidentified voices in background.!
GARY: Okay,
thank you.
C
Pause!
UNIDENTIFIED wants to come out.
119
Pause!
Unidentified voices
UNIDENTIFIED
in background.!
don't know you want him to call Do, do you
GARY: I
can
FEMALE SPEAKER#2: I
don't
Okay. You,
to call
me up?
UNIDENTIFIED
GARY: Okay,
I I 1
from him,
UNIDENTIFIED
GARY: I'll,
okay?
UNIDENTIFIED
All
right. Bye-bye.
Unidentified voices
r 92
Tape 5,
side B!
Phone rings!
120
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #16: Hello, Pat? GARY: Who are you trying to reach, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #16:Pat McGhee? GARY: He's not at this number today and
won't be. You may want to try gap!. Phone dialing! Phone ringing!
Gary again.
Did --
Iwas
f
Gary.
1 l
Like Isaid,
go myself.
Ijust
sent the
121
GARY: No.
Pat gap!.
Pause! Phone
GARY: Hello?
ringing!
is Steve *
122
GARY: No.
M. SCHNEIDER:
So, what,
what, what'staking
place, because
and --
we wanted to get
the process
going again
GARY: Well,
like I
told you,
we're, we're
ready to
long.
start the
day '
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Obviously, you
know, I
was
just on
was able
the other
to talk
line,
with them.
a phone
call came
through, I
GARY: Uhhuh.
And they
asked me
to call
that line's
been cut.
I'm --
GARY: I,
were cut earlier?
I thought
you told
me the
lines I
MR. SCHNEIDER:
were. I didn't realize
Well, they
there was
-- all
one last
of them
one. Y
GARY: How
place?
many lines
do you
have in that
'
123
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Well, with
--
Idon't--
should I - MR.
airport. I
SCHNEIDER: -- of the
GARY: -I'm way back over
don't --
now.
the
guys are
them that.
And I -- really, I said I have thehighest regard for these people as, as David does, he thinks, you know,
they have shown us a lot of, of decency and, and -- but there's thing oneif you could do for us, if you could leave one line openfor the spiritual aspect because I
really why I'm here, out why we're all here -GARY: Um-hum.
MR. SCHNEIDER: -- is
gap!.
.
124
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Pardon?
to talking
to, to
oh-oh,
here wego. What's happening? Justa minute. Whats happening? Okay.I guess they're moving in on us,
C
!
huh?
GARY: I that no
| w 1
I
l l 1
92
9
125
MR. SCHNEIDER:-- and make mistakes and -GARY: Well, you know, I know we, we Y
you off
--
right now,
asking?
know, he --
126
the best,
GARY: Um-hum.
you know,
going to respect that with him.- The man already showed me more than I ever dreamed could be possible for a E
human beingto learn so I give him the respect in
it with,
with Jim.
"
'
you. It's
his desire.
he
127
understands about that, all the whys, you know, that's, that's he's -showed me andtold us both, you know, some ofthe reasons but I want to be able to give that
and say well, well, talk to let's continue to do that then. the situation
GARY: No. ,
MR. SCHNEIDER: I wish, I wish you did so
128
how David understood -- didn't understand why, whywe couldn'tJim get here. In the same token,I think, I
think you could understand that my bosses don't
is all over. We're in a precarious position dealing with our own lives.That's I mean, -- it's totally a
different situation.
wouldn't
MR. SCHNEIDER: If I
were in your
place I
would be saying the very samethings to someone like me, I would be, I, I
GARY: Um-hum.
-- I
92
Q
MR. SCHNEIDER: Okay.
I
1,29
GARY: -
my efforts
to --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: --
to see
if
Ican
appeal the
situation. But
be able to convey
MR. SCHNEIDER:
GARY: - the sense of how bringing Jim here is going to make some, some,some positive influence -MR. SCHNEIDER: Well --
h
they, they
GARY: Well,
job. -
Iknow,
did, and,
and the
Q O
130
GARY: Well,
I, I
understand, I
understand
that, believe
offended by
M. SCHNEIDER:
Right.
think you
can do it, I,
GARY: Okay.
situation.
wants
a
GARY: Well,
131
GARY: --
we can't--
Now, if I, if I go in to the bosses one more time, okay, andIsay listen, David is absolutely adamant
is, is going to
-- howit's really
Well, here's --
--
me -- here's
benefit it.
that, but can you be, can you be more specific with me?
MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, meaning that if, if, if
of his,
andI
Q O
132
to bend well then to me it's showing that they -GARY: No, but it's not --
MR. SCHNEIDER:
Indiscernible!
GARY: --
a matter of bend.
law-
enforcement officers, they don't deal in the realm of the desire and understand,they're, they're more in the
area of some, some concrete --
MR. SCHNEIDER:-- I
to help them understand. Now, now, it's time that we, we discussed for example how do youthink we might be able to move towards, towards resolving this situation?
If I can impartupon them that bringing Jim backis
going to start us
and, and, and --
133
to me
about all
GARY:
the ideas
Yeah.
but --
know, but
he starts
develop
we're, we're putting what came first the chicken or the egg. If I can -- I tell you, I've talked to the bosses
and, and --
but if
for
what
134 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
that's
most
GARY: Uh-huh.
way.
we're able to do
on. Go
ahead.
t.
! 16
17
MR. SCHNEIDER: He said he was with Jim to see how trustworthy and -GARY: Um-hum.
doing this
I 1a
I ' 19
20 I21 1 ~22
-4 MR. SCHNEIDER: -how the whole systemwould operate, this is why. He's waiting to see -- and now
it's looking
u 135
GARY: Yeah.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
what it sounds like.
I mean,
bottom line
that's
GARY: Well,
understand --
no, no.
Now, we have to
to
GARY: -- he --
136
bring Jim
I mean
this is -so.
what's
positively going
Imean
Well, do
MR. SCHNEIDER:
an example,
okay? Just
--
day anyway.
We talked
Brian and,
and that
to start the process. You said once they come out the
process begins was -and it won't stop until it's over. If I now, that'ssomething you'vealready talked This is not some sort of a, a new
about doing.
Iwere
to be able to
me that if
go
I
they assure
can get Jim here we can start this their guarantee, that this is going
that's, that's a
MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, that'sexactly what David said last night. by Jim
f
He -even to
it
was suggested
--
GARY :Um
- hum .
137
children out.
GARY: Right.
get Jim here that little Chrissie and Brian are going
to come out and the other kids --
if we_
can get Jim there can, canhe sayto his bosses that
138
r. 92
little Chrissie
- that's-- he
we were doing
_
So they're, they're, they're -to stop.
MR. SCHNEIDER:
That's correct.
out the
MR. SCHNEIDER: Here, I'm, I'm going to -GARY: -the process -- hand we did last night? to David,
M. SCHNEIDER:
okay, Gary? GARY: Sure,
you over
that'1l be fine.
he is.
Hi,
M. KORESH:
Hey Gary,
listen --
. GARY:
David?
MR. KORESH:
GARY: Yeah?
night we
had about
four
139
us what
to do,
right? yeah.
Yeah indiscernible!.
GARY: Yeah,
MR. KORESH=
GARY: This
was before,
before Jim
started?
M. KORESH:Well, during
first contacted Jim, all right?
GARY: Uh-huh.
MR. KORESH:
Now, when
I established
with Jim
I said,
look, now,
you're,
your weapons,
come on out, I
Unidentified female
voice in
background.! do something
--
right.
- you know?
MR. KORESH:
So what
happens is,
is that
it
it. We at the
had,
get my
babies out.
I told
him, I
said,
keep your
the deal
and I'll'
the deal,
GARY: Um-hum.
-- for
the rest
of them.
um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
Now, last
night Jim,
Jim told
Steve that
he had to get
some rest.
-- "
-- and
the morning?"
GARY: Yeah.
know? Because
GARY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- to
;l
on your
side of
the court.
So now, I mean,
you know,
MR. KORESH:
The, the
question is,
am, am I
going to
show that
my integrity
is to
adhere to
the
agreements that
GARY: Well,
would leave
would,
me on the phone
the integrity
phone to do just
MR. KORESH: I, I
GARY: Yeah,
MR. KORESH:
to -he --
GARY: -
not, not
groundwork that
in,
92
142
time was he
wanted to be
one
talking to
MR. KORESH:
GARY: Yeah.
Look, me
and Jim
talked --
day yesterday.
I know
about --
MR. KORESH:
-- and
what we
--
GARY: I know. You know, David, it's just that we've, we've, we've turned this issue into a --
just, just a major stumbling blocktoday and,and -MR. KORESH: Becauseit is a point
want to see about you guys -GARY: Um-hum.
that I
course we are.
GARY: Well, I, I
143
that. Now,
you
to promote
a situation if you
that deals
I was on your
it no
do for
about me.
GARY: What
MR. KORESH:
agent next
That was
door
is that,
Dave?
and
Robert Gonzalez
Jeff and
those guys.
like I
knows all
said, we
alpha and
omega. And
144
to come
did.
M. KORESH= And see,Idid everything in my power toavoid yougentlemen coming and doingwhat you
I
r k
process.
Well --
I--
you I, I
don't, Idon't want togive youthe sense that Iknow all of the background of this because, because Idon't.
MR. KORESH: Well, Ibrought him into my
house and everything -GARY: Um-hum.
l I
14$
GARY: Yeah.
GARY: I
think if
this
think
have a
think
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now,the Bible is a big book and the harmony of what the prophetshave been shown must be harmonized, otherwise men of this
harmony with itself cannot stand. The churches because there areso many of themis obviousproof that somebody wrong. is If there is one God, he should be
146
didn't write
that. That was written long before I came into the world and you came into the world. And so becauseit
because have I been misunderstood it's not by those who've me heard oropened the book and saw the words,
it's those by who refused to listen. So
you're --
-'
like you're really hurting right now and I'm, I'm very
concerned for you.
MR. KORESH: How come Jim hasn't come inyet? GARY: Okay.What I was trying to explain to
I can go in to my bosses and, and convince them that, that bybringing Jim this is going tomake very a
positive impact on the events.
92
GO
147
/ 92.
out of like we
here as agreed. -
long as
Jim is
communicating with
me
GARY: Yeah,
yeah. See,
what they
don't
understand, David,
wrapping everything
just a voice for,
is, is,
into one
for the
authorities here.
MR. KORESH:
GARY: Of
No, Jim
is a
is.
person.
course he
MR. KORESH:
authorities.
He's notjust a
voice for
the
GARY: But,
of, of
now, now
r 92
but he
speaks for
the authority
that's --
the on-scene
commanders here
talking with
and, and
Jim, I
understand that,
understand --
me explain
the voice
again,
of the
have respect
have respect
for that
too and
So then
MR. KORESH:
the original
Are you
GARY: Well
agreement are
what original
you referring
MR. KORESH:
additional -92 k
Me and Jim to
.
avoid a
lot of
Q
.
GARY: Um-hum.
I
148
and flak
--l
see, the
W 92-
work withyou, but I think you, you put more into that
than what he said.
, GARY:
' !
149?
that if,
if we
bring Jim
here that
we can
start the
process again
of the
children getting
Immediately. okay. I
them out?
MR. KORESH:
GARY: Immediately,
your guarantee --
have, I
have
MR. KORESH:
Immediately.
GARY: --
that if,
if I
Jim here
--
_
God's word on that.
GARY: Okay.
92
warmly. And
okay, let
GARY:Well, I
me -- you feel try to so strongly explain to
understand what's going on and, and I'm, trying I'm to help them to understand.And I think we're making some
progress now,but you, you've given me something to
Q Q
150 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
which I
let's --
strong pitch,
from the
MR. KORESH:
GARY: --
these babies
out of
here.
you get
GARY: Okay.
MR. KORESH:
newborns.
do it
like we
.
did~
Jim and I
25
agreed.
92
92
.1.51
easiest method
trust.
r/'
to do it or, or is there other idea --
'
MR. KORESH=
It establishes
a greater
line of
GARY: Okay,
for
us. All
my bosses
right. Let
and, and
me then
discuss with
go with
that, David,
go to
them what
we've talked
about. And
I feel
something concrete
than just,
have to
talk, we
have to
talk. Now
firm commitments.
Well, I
went indiscernible!
really didn't
come out
that
way to
tell you
the truth
it, it
my
now to
misunderstanding, but
me.
MR. KORESH:
GARY: And --
All right.
the phone
and
going to
be there.
MR. KORESH:
See, now
they, now
they can
know
us to
drive them
tanks or
whether he
wants us to just
part of
the
92 7
OO
property.
GARY: Umhum. MR. KORESH: S0 --
152
everybody feels
progress.
good about
Okay.
Thank you,
I appreciate
it.
GARY: Okay.
well, well,
are you
going to
be
there now
where I
can reach
out to
MR. KORESH:
Are you
I can't
able to
move.
walk around?
GARY: Really?
Do you
have any
extra
medications that,
MR. KORESH:
that you
need or
something?
right.
No, Im
doing all
GARY: Okay.
out there to a hospital
you
GARY: Well,
I, I
think -
to suffer
an injury
that's going
you
5 92
L53
know, I
mean --
MR. KORESH:
Gary --
GARY: -
MR. KORESH:
GARY: I
know, I
know.
- some
ATF agents
have died,
GARY: That's right. MR. KORESH: GARY: And I'm no better than you're noworse and, they are. and, and
there's alot of
mean yesterday anybody else
bloodshed that
and believe me, we
happened today
and --
die from
wounds received.
bring back
the lives
of anybody
look out
out there
MR. KORESH:
and
to think
that if
it'd
been on a different
friends. I
situation
I think
You know
we could
GARY: Yeah,
MR. KORESH:
you're right.
--
.'
MR. KORESH: GARY: Yeah, commitment to go on - that's, yeah. well, and, and
154
that's what hurts. we have to make better than a
making things
In the
book of
Zefenia it
talks
MR. KORESH:
being in
a certain
nation that
thereof and
indiscernible! for
his judgment
no shame.
know? GARY: Well,
we've, we've
our mistakes
at least in this
to the
point that
we
anymore bloodshed
MR. KORESH:
situation, okay?
give me a call back
Okay. So
then, all
right? Y
I GARY:
soon as I have
you back
bosses.
as
MR. KORESH:
Tell the
bosses to
give us
some
I ",
lines again, all right?
155
Well, I'll to them. Let's --
GARY: Okay.
L
you.
up!
k 2 I
U
92
92 1
U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF THE
TREASURY
BUREAU OF
ALCOHOL, TOBACCO
& FIREARMS
I 92 92
TAPE #6
2/28/93
misdated as
92
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER: Okay.
Well, I've
me saying
it,
Ithink
Ihave
somebody here
that maybe
can explain it to
DAVID: Okay.
better. Okay?
is Jim. you doing? you doing?
about you.
I've beenkind of
out of
touch and
apologize.
tell you
Iknow
Let me
to
what happened.
wanted me
DAVID: Uh-huh.
I 1
i 92
JIM: And
Iwas
kind of
upset about
it. And
they wanted
me to
get some
rest, you
know. And
-- but,
listen, and
then after
that,
Iwent
by Human Services
to see
if the
so
long. How
you know,
can't move?
was telling
him,
JIM: Um-hum.
to break
So --
that, I'm
JIM: I
know you're --
JIM: But,
you know
--
DAVID: --
JIM: Right.
you anybody that, you
92
4 F 92_
different directions H
DAVID: Wanting
JIM: Sure,
us to
I understand.
make a deal
with them.
DAVID: You
we're not bookies, we
JIM: Yeah,
DAVID: S0 I
know, you
good job.
these commanders
out on
a limb
and he
just said
talk to
work with
us, but
He's good a
like
responsibility, just
you do.
position.
You know, a lot of things on my shoulders, you, and I sympathize with your
-
would anyway.
my
reply was
hey, I tell
his word
--
in fact,
last would,
maybe Chrissy
you know,
get out
after I
left. But,
now. And
ready.
that's the
David wants
it and
do it.
cars ready
of get
know, just
listen, know
together on
feeling for
you, you
responsibility
people in
on you.
you read
in the
Bible last
you.
don't know
something, you
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: -
'cause,
about.
92
It's atest,
a test to
every man
on earth
that
professes godliness.
JIM: Umhum.
the radio.
DAVID: You
JIM: Oh,
hear what
yeah.
their explanations
are?
off?
guys of these
doing?
to do that. I'm not
DAVID: Yeah.
Well, the
thing of
it is
is
that there
right?
them the
Iexplained
fourth seal
92
' 7 v 92.
In the
first four
beast is
coming. See,
now,
there'sa meaning
JIM: Right.
DAVID: But
there is
a real
meaning to
it.
lamb opened
souls that
the fifth
have been
seal,
slain for
Isaw
under the
altar, the
of God and for
the word
the testimony
oh, Lord
those who
which they
long
held, crying
will not
to God,
saying
upon
God, how
dwell upon
JIM: Hmmm.
the earth?
f '92
DAVID: You
so that man can have
see, someone
a chance to learn
died 2,000
the truth
years ago
about
condemnation. Somebody
died so
that man
could admit
learn. And
through the
JIM: Yeah.
so, when
Book of
you read
John, Jim
the Book
--
of
DAVID:
said of
Christ
-- Ican Ireceive
- myself
of my father that
doctrine is
DAVID: So,
heaven tried
to make
it
a little
going to be judged,
to the father giving
it's going to
to his son a
same truth
my
I, Ido
given me
not speak of
that I
what the
father has
DAVID: You
blood,
have to
JIM: Um-hum.
I I I I
seal, you
know, in
21 22 23 24 25
Salvation
nation which
keeps thetruth may enter in, cause that will keep him in perfect peace whose mind has stayed onme, ohGod, because he trusteth in me. It says trust in the Lord,
92
1 for 2 them
is everlasting on high.
3 he'll bring
4 the
S It
it down,
the needy
says let
even to
the dust,
for the
feet o
poor and
shall trod
David be
it underfeet.
showed to the wicked.
6~ Yet,
will they
of
7 uprightness Bi not
9 hand 10 father
behold the
is lifted upholds his
majesty of
up, they
know, the
11 JIM:
12 DAVID: 13 14 shall be It says
Right.
But they ashamed for shall see their anger against thy
_
and then they people. pain
15
as a woman in travail.
It says
any
I i 16
17 of
by dead
18 arise
19 dust. 20 JIM:
that dwell
1 21
i221
I _23
24
25 JIM:
Listen, I
all are
no.
just want
going to
to -kill us.
} DAVID:
Jim --
10 -
JIM: We
to do it.
not going
DAVID: Jim,
let me
explain something.
You
know, you
many days
know that
before, you
Ican'tlay here,
know Imean,
you know,
too
the infection's
already in
me, okay?
JIM: But, David, we're going to resolve
this.
DAVID; No,
let me
explain something.
You
Gary that,
DAVID: You
p 92
is same
the ability
God who
for God
to tell
men the
created heaven
and earth,
by his
word, is
the same
pass.
God
who foretells
the future
and brings
it to
JIM: Umhum.
testimony of
Testament tells
those men.
them
that now
Well,
everybody is
responsible. Now
all the
Gentiles can
be
responsible for
the Jews
truths that
you
rejected. So,
ll
JIM: Right.
,.
DAVID: I
your system
cannot consent
laws and
to your
laws and
is higher.
because my
my system
wrong, don't,
liberally
laws of before, this vindicated the
literally
the country nation was or the
or deliberately
nation because, blessed because the Ten
try to
as I it, it
break the
said
principles of
JIM: I understand.
Commandments.
DAVID: But
what happens
is when
God's truth
world, no
the currency
nation's currency it
we trust. Okay?
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: Now,
are we
talking about
my God that
sits
on the
throne? Are
we talking
to Caesar here?
about giving
what is
to God
Caesar's?
about
no longer?
Jim.
DAVID: And
now people,
choose not
Q
92 w. 92
' 12
Hey, David,
I
hold on just a second.
JIM;
to someone else.! I
there? Who's
--
old's Bobby?
Bobby's -- oh, it's Star?
DAVID: Star
0-
is three.
JIM: Three.
They just
hollered
at me
and
told me
the car
was ready.
DAVID: Okay.
>
JIM: 'And so you might want to just, you know, start getting the kids ready -DAVID: Okay.
JIM: --
to, you
know, get
their coats
and --
it's kind of cold out. I've been out and it's a little
cold and --
DAVID: Well,
we'll
JIM: Get
,a 92
DAVID: You
water tank, right?
92
13
92 92 ~_.
JIM: Yeah.
If we
could do
it, it
would --
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: That'd be the best, I think. Is
i
--
coming, right?
Here, let
me
JIM: Let
SITA: Hi,
JIM: SITA: Yes.
to set
that up,
okay?
JIM: How
are you?
SITA= I'm doing fine. JIM: Well, got, I've got the check on Darryl,
How about
okay?
All right.
SITA: Okay.
JIM: I
be
available, okay?
But let
me tell you
this. I
won't
Igive
you
I'll send
that'll be just as
You can trust me,
SITA: Okay.
So --
you
to go.
SITA: Okay.
O
JIM:
Do you
understand?
SITA: Yeah.
JIM: Okay.
Is it
clothes for
can
get some
extra
JIM: SITA JIM: SITA JIM: SITA
Absolutely, yes,
Okay.
Yeah.
Their name
Okay.
is Brian
l
and Scott.
92
number.
JIM:
grandparents?
SITA JIM: ' SITA
Just a
Go ahead. Hello?
minute. I'm
sorry.
JIM:
Yeah, go
ahead, Sita.
SITA:
JIM: SITA JIM: SITA JIM:
Chrissy.
Spell that
MA-B-B.
for me.
I S it
MAB?
Okay.
92
Q
SITA: And
2641.
I
15
their phone
number is
605923'
you get
said that
go two by two.
And
a few-
between. But
you want
coats and
to send
stuff. You
know what
I mean? I
SITA: Yeah.
JIM: I
time, but,
I SITA:
DAVID: We -when
Patron and Jenessa --
JIM: Okay.
r 92
I16
JIM: Oh,
great. n
absolutely. Okay,
yeah, that's
that.
no problem.
Patron's four months old.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: A car seat and --
JIM: How
DAVID: Yeah. JIM: You
about if
I have
a lady
agent?
haven't seen
#-
better bring
lady agent,
would that
DAVID: Yeah.
help you?
JIM: Sita
lady agent?
can hand
the four-month-old
to the
JIM: You
of rough.
DAVID: Yeah.
DAVID: Jenessa,
how old
is she
now?
Talking to
1 92 i 92
someone else.!
JIM: Five, okay.
Five-and-a-half.
1 _ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 David.
OC
. 17
,
she's eight. I'm sorry.
DAVID: Oh,
JIM: Make
DAVID: Yeah,
we'll dress
them warm.
JIM: Okay.
And then
maybe you
can have
are --
DAVID: You
JIM: Oh,
already know
sure.
Sonja.
'
1 12 92 92 13
7 9215 16 14
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Yeah,
ready or something.
DAVID: Okay.
and Chrissy
JIM: We
want them
to have
time to
get their
and kiss
their mom.
But, you
know, we
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
said, just
keep it going
and --
DAVID: Right.
bones in we
that stuff
JIM: You
DAVID: Yeah.
wasn't ready?
-
we had that?
Isaid
look, I
18 -
with no
radio and
then
we can't
call them,
you know,
know. So,
that's what
send them
out. Okay?
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: All
DAVID: Okay. JIM: Patron,
right, Buddy.
four months
old, and
Jenessa?
DAVID: Patron
and Jenessa,
yeah.
JIM: Okay.
What you're doing here
tremendous.
Hey, listen,
this is
great.
This is
benefits everyone.
DAVID: Well,
secret with
v JIM: Yeah .
like I
these children.
DAVID: There's a ~-
later. Psalms
you'll see.
8. If
you'll,
Patron and
sister.
DAVID: Yeah.
Jenessa want
to see
JIM: But
I went
over there
this morning
and,
gentle people.
t
real nice
92
19
DAVID: Yeah,
ladies.
they really
are safe
DAVID: Well,
and dry
and happy.
contacted their --
have you
kin?
JIM: Yeah,
we were
having that
done and,
and
us. And
Ihaven't gotten
JIM: And
DAVID: Yeah.
put them
on the
phone?
JIM: Let
I want to get
me -yeah,
let me
do this,
Iwant
David.
out
these cars
started and
to walk
DAVID: Which
glitches?
JIM: Well,
didn't hear me.
DAVID: Oh,
okay.
JIM: Well,
there for -- wait,
let me see if
hold on just a
DAVID: Okay.
up to
the
'
v
x
92
notify them.
Hello?
Steve.
Jim, how
voice.
JIM:
worried about
you.
I'm sorry--
STEVE: I,
I-
you know,
Itold
Gary we
and we did and everything, but to speak with you. we kept on trying He started
David it and
possible, you
know.
STEVE:
JIM:
SO --
Yeah. Well,
Itold
me I've
STEVE =
JIM:
Right .
Iknew,
you know.
STEVE: Yeah.
JIM:
to stop
by the
hospital to
1 92
see some of
other guys.
92
if 21
STEVE: Oh, I'm sure.
JIM: And
all doing good.
you'll be glad to
STEVE: Good.
JIM: I
you know.
STEVE: Great.
"STEVE: Right.
JIM: And
7' 92
-JIM:
were doing.
|
-and
92
92
22
STEVE: Right
JIM: And
STEVE: Good.
so -e
JIM:
-you
can tell
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: What
stink, you
know. '
did, huh?
JIM: He said man, you know, we're trying to work this out, and he says I'm trying to work with
are,
I believe
it.
STEVE: I, Itold
him Ireally
had a, you
JIM: well,
2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9
23
time, and that's why Gary, you that Ididn't trust 1,000
know, or somebody else -- you know, I didn't want to . give you anybody to talk to
percent.
STEVE: Right.
JIM: And,
pudding when he goes
and Ithink
out and
sure.
--
STEVE: I'm
10 11 12 13 f 92 15 16 17 18 19 20 > 21 14
JIM: --
battles
those commanders.
You know,
way you've been, you know, in Isaiah 55:3 and thy soul shall live. And,
it says hear
JIM: Yeah.
Are you okay?
STEVE: By
the way,
yes --
but, no,
Ididn't.
Ilaid
and --
I, Itried
know, he was
off and
we weren't able to
-- the
one thing
Iguess
we wanted
of these
of challenges
STEVE: And
Iwas
wondering
lf what
would
the -Jim,
possibility --
what would
be the
They're hollering
STEVE: Okay.
a minute
The car,
the car
STEVE: Not
past
the water
tower now
past the
water tower
I'm sorry
one thing
STEVE: Yeah?
JIM: Is
STEVE: No,
he still bleeding
a lot
JIM: Okay. You've-got do you -- look, I know Iasked you this yesterday
STEVE: Yeah.
92
25
STEVE: Right.
JIM:
But Ican
arrange to
send you --
in Some
.c1ean gauze
pads and,
STEVE JIM: STEVE
and, and,
you know
of that.
: We'vegot plenty
Are you sure?
: Oh,
yeah, yeah.
But Idefinitely
.appreciate it.
JIM:
We could
just hand
it off
to Sita,
you
We have
a lot.
'
Okay.
Yeah.
-because
I --
sounded
to me
today and
STEVE: Well,
he's not been
he was,
you know,
the
truth is
really
slept the
talking, so
entire day
you what, Iwas
or night
so tired
and he's
talking and
he's realhoarse
and, you
a couple
little
-- Itell but it
seems like
sleep, but,
JIM: Hold
26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 know -Patron --
yeah. Is
tell him
Sita there?
for me --
Well, tell
David, you
can just
'
STEVE: Right.
I was going to
but I
try
a lady
agent to,
with her,
don't
gentle, you
STEVE:
Okay.
JIM: Okay?
And this
little baby,
you
handled with
0
anyway, we'll
STEVE JIM: STEVE JIM: STEVE
v
2'7
of that.
is at
the water
now?
tower.
It's there
It's there
now.
Okay, the
car is
at the
water tower
right now,
Sita
JIM: STEVE
She's ready.
Okay.
-- all Iguess
that already
or -- or
want to
Okay.
plus,
I guess she'll
be
Sure.
STEVE: Yeah.
JIM:
come over
here and
let them
talk to
STEVE: Right.
to call through here, JIM: Itell
Okay, good.
you, Steve --
of course?
STEVE: Yeah?
JIM:
here.
Imean,
out
STEVE: I
believe it.
O
Q
JIM: And, you know,
Q
28
everywhere and,
you know,
you know
when all
that stuff
--
STEVE: Well,
that was
the telephone.
mean, right
up until
We had
those stupid
little connectors
on the thing.
JIM: Yeah.
JIM: David I 92
Just a
l
JIM: All
right.
29
1 [gap]
STEVE:
decent telephone
for it
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 that.
even.
JIM: Oh,
I think
no, I
wouldn't askyou to
more cord than that.
here --
do that.
this one
JIM: Oh,
STEVE: Yeah,
want?
happy to
see what
JIM: --
check on
for that.
Maybe we can do
STEVE:
This thing
here,
Imean
--
-- what
is it,
is it
like a
Princess phone
or something?
the one we've got here, it
that's part
JIM: That'swhy it
yesterday? STEVE: Yeah.
kept cutting
off
I didn't know if
it was
30
half the
I saw people
phone, and
too, because
all of a
stepping on
now I'm in
the
hallway because,
David's here, just off
room. So --
you know,
to
-the
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: Yeah.
Hold on
one second.
Iwant
to check
on the talk to
Pass
commander, I'll
telephone later.
that through
I'm sure --
well, we'll
talk
You want to
call me
back then
JIM: Well,
STEVE: Yes.
yeah.
Is Sita
going
out now?
Why don't you -she walks out the here in stop. And
just Ican
31
1
one-two, you
was going
knvw,
92 ,
2 after
3
to get
Sonja to
get the
4 STEVE: 5 JIM: 6
so after
we bring
- once
we
hook up
7 STEVE: 8 JIM:
9
then you
and
Iwill
break and
it's Chrissyand
and stuff over here and to
10 Scott
11 then
we'll have
12 me,
13 STEVE
F K 14 JIM: 15 them.
you know
-Okay.
- so
you can,
of course,
speak to
STEVE:
Right.
Or their mom can.
Okay.
And, you
20 okay?
21 STEVE:
22 JIM:
Right. Okay.
Things are
to continue that way. Yes. Well,
can.
going real
,2:-x lwant it
I24, STEVE:
too,
Steve, how
to need
92 92
32
to line up?
we got left, can
I mean,
you
about the
tell me? many cars
children. How
many have
are you
need left
all the
children out
Talking to by little.
He says
he'll [gap]
little
Oh, okay.
We'll have
That's fine.
Yeah.
to keep
doing it
that way.
to avoid
delay.
STEVE
I know,
know --
I understand,
but for
us
it's,it's, you
' JIM:
talk to
you.
JIM: STEVE JIM: DAVID: JIM: DAVID
Oh, sure.
Here he is.
All right.
Jim. David. ~
see
r 92
33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
JIM: Right,
you are.
~ DAVID:
people here, right?
JIM: Right.
There'slot a of
think that
they believe
in the Gospel,
he
DAVID: Okay?
JIM: Um-hum.
' DAVID:
In other
'
1 34
realities that, you know, what they're learned in the
JIM: David,
man and --
DAVID: Well,
this. I'm
saying that,
won't be around no
JIM: Well,
10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
DAVID: And
JIM: Okay.
let me
say something.
DAVID: Cause, you know,I cannot save any person that respects meas a person. There's truth, a
you know, cause we're all equal and blood does not inherit the
JIM: Right.
in the
flesh. Flesh
kingdom of God.
the
DAVID: So,
but what?
you see.
So
JIM: I
DAVID: Well
IO
' 35
JIM: I'd like to be the one to help you get
~
it.
DAVID: I
head.
wish,
Iwish
the
JIM: Oh,
you
truth of
JIM: Right
DAVID: You
the Messiah,
Christ, you know. All men, nomatter what they maybe with the gift of God, they are vanity. And that's why,
92 I
you see, when you see even Christ on the cross, you see that, that
spirit of
sometimes, V
is the
It's from
l l
I 92.
I36
DAVID: The kids are
JIM: The kids are
tower.
I
on their
on the
way, right?
car at
the water
JIM: Okay,
on they're going to
DAVID: Okay,
JIM: Right. I I
it's going to be
a white
car.
a radio a radio
in it, in it.
right?
[_ I I I
JIM:
Yes.
DAVID: So,
see, see,
the truth
own selves,
,_ I
OO
37 JIM: Um-hum.
you more
okay.
DAVID: Here
JIM: They're
DAVID: Yeah.
comes the
coming out?
babies and
--
JIM: Are
they wrapped
up warm?
they
I
next, the next two
children that
need for
JIM: David,
DAVID: Look
do it,
buddy.
DAVID: This
is --
I know.
JIM: You
about
that a
bit. _
DAVID: These
JIM: Listen,
are our
it's --
children, remember.
38
DAVID: We
saying man, you know, this is, that's really doing this
you know,
this is
kind of
talked to
he was
times today
-or Thorn or --
asking about
DAVID: Harwell JIM: Yeah, DAVID: Oh,
p 92
JIM: And
he was telling me
that, Jim,
you
know, just
to work
of God and --
talk to
with us
DAVID: Well
--
JIM: --
you know,
that kind
of stuff.
good guy
just know
f I I
I l
I" 92_
keep rattling
like
say, you
know, Iunderstand
that, you
know, by
all
JIM: Well,
QO
39
i.
Oh. Where,
_
me -- wait a second.
they're kind
Okay. Sita.
Sita. Sita.
you
40
that phone
with our
lines. And
-- especially,
milk for
if those
the baby,
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: ~
JIM: Okay
of honey.
DAVID: See,
very good
food,
really good
DAVID: Whose
goat milk
from? Huh?
Can we send some goat milk send some frozen goat milk.
then?
I I I
And okay.
Talking to
DAVID: They
second.
-we'll be down
there in
41
JIM: Okay.
mean, Iknow
time.
_
~
we're ready. That's problem. no Hey, you know, a lot of things to get ready, you know. You know, youand I
have lost a lot JIM: in the last day, you know. Isaid we've lost a lot
people we knew. A bad thing happened
'
DAVID: Huh?
yesterday, you
it and
JIM: But the great thing is we're resolving we're trying to work it out, you know,and -~
DAVID: Wish we could have done it you
know, Idid
that Robert.
everything, Idid
JIM: Iknow.
'
OO
42 / 92
good and
kids out.
great,
I've got to
DAVID: Yeah,
Ihave
a lot
of people
come
people in
all the
world. bother
you, isn't
JIM: Your
sore?
wound.
It's starting
-- is
it
yeah.
you told
there?
me yesterday it went
in
-- it
looked like
the
k I
OO
C
your hips?
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: 43
JIM: Yeah,
DAVID:
that pelvic
bone?
two bones on like
Yeah, you
know, the
Then it
came out
my back.
JIM: Right.
DAVID: My
JIM: Oh,
rear, you
man. Where
know.
else did
you get
the other
hit?
- DAVID:
Then I
got hit
over on
side. Then
wrist. Took
hit right
here
in my,
--
my
my wrist
I'm lookingat it
right now.
That blood
than black.
JIM: Did
your wrist?
you get
that to
stop bleeding on
it stopped
bleeding.
again. It's
JIM: Yeah.
position? If there is
a comfortable
DAVID: Something
explain.
JIM: Yeah.
I I
like that.
It's hard to
DAVID: You
know, Ikind
of cried
when I
,_ 92
I I
44
on the
roof.
~ JIM:
DAVID: It JIM: I
to them.
know it.
you
is is that in the
minds of men there's just two sides, their sides. And those guys sit together and they drink coffee together
Q O
45
You know, I was trying to know, to get back away, you know.
JIM: Yeah.
tell them
to, you
women and
you know,Jim, see, I've an got prophets of old had visions, didn't
'
DAVID: So,
the
boy --
Itold
told Robert
DAVID: We -- he knew thatyou were coming. Robert, Isaid look, Isaid they're coming. I
that.
JIM: Yeah.-
And Robert sat right there lookingat me,and I tried to look him straight in the eye. You know, I thought
at least what hewould dois tell
hey, let's, let's slow up a bit.
JIM: Yeah. ~
46 t 92
a show of arms,
--
you know,
JIM: Hold
it. Wait
a minute. All
right,
Hello.
Well, get
female voice
in background
f 92
walk all
the way
u
JIM:
has a problem
further, if
JIM:
could.
it
like this,
if we
know --
let's see,
truck out
is the
there?
the white
Just any,
just any
car. Just
any
safe conduct
to
wherever you
DAVID
Who took
the keys?
Yeah. Okay,
take
DAVID: This
it's kind
is
bit.
a different
of shot
JIM: DAVID JIM: DAVID JIM: DAVID JIM: DAVID: JIM: DAVID JIM:
up a
A,
a little brown
Yeah.
car?
What kind
What kind
is it,
is it?
a Chevy
A Ford
or what?
Escort.
Ford Escort,
S0 --
okay.
Ford Escort,
Yeah.
brown, small?
Okay.
Yeah, it's real small.
All right,
to look
for.
DAVID:
keys to
that, Where's
right? They've
Is she
taking care
of her?
Start them.
Start them.
know,
C
48
they're so eager to
think and
--
JIM: So
DAVID: Yeah.
and Ilove babies, Jim.
JIM: Yeah.
of God to say that. You
Well,
Iknow
you'retrue a man
kids.
love those
but
be?
Idon't--
JIM: How
DAVID: See,
what happens
is is
that --
JIM: How
r 92
could that
be? A
man that
would do
this for
works, if
lies. You
JIM: Robin
Ihave.
the girls
that left
boy of mine
I I I
DAVID: Let
started.
me, let
me tell
JIM: All
right.
__/ *
0
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: To this place.
.
49
And there
was a
I:-I.
woman
here named
Lois Roden.
JIM: Right.
DAVID: And
what happened
was is
I came
here
know,
she
was trying
to teach
the world
that the
image of God is
DAVID: And
so what
happens is
is that
she
intrigued Lois.
prophecies it
I I
talks about
a sign,
it talks
about --
End of
Tape #6!
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U.S. DEPARTMENT
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TREASURY
TAPE #7
3/1/93
92 2
was too
old, right?
DAVID: Okay,
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID:
Well, who
do you
think was
the one
~-
get this
DAVID: Anyway,
who got the blame,
JIM: Who?
Jim?
Now, this
shows you
how human
of all,
old, and here I am giving Lois and all these divinity. And
people
originally branches.
JIM: Um-hum.
right?
with her and they accused her of going to bed with me.
Q YA
Q
3
And this woman was very homely and 70years old. You
know what I mean?
JIM: Yeah.
Yeah, I
do.
said now!listen, there's a truth you've to got deal with here. I says your accusations against me,let's
evaluate this. I says what if I did go to bed with
her? And she has conceived a child, and she doesn't even have any seed.I says you better watchout your
you
O
DAVID: And a .357 Reuger,
O
4
he came in and
a Nighthawk
or a Magnum.
telling people
was going to, A JIM:
my balls
kind of stuff.
off
and he
Hey, David?
DAVID: Yeah.
A E 1 1 2
kids
on the
your next
I think
you said
it was
Scott and
5 ;
DAVID: Okay.
now? Scott and Chrissy? JIM: Sure. What
our line
to
call the
Ican
see, David.
DAVID: They
shut
us off.
I'll tell you, I'llbe straight see, but Idon't hold that much
if
5 ; 1.
1.
just disconnected
% 3.
5 you.
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: So, JIM: Well,
Okay.
you know -can do. I'll
do, but
DAVID: Are
message?
they still
going to
play that
JIM: What
message on the radio
DAVID:
message? Oh,
station?
yeah, play
the
Yeah.
JIM: Yeah.
taken care of.
Okay, let
me, let
me get that
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Is
Phil out
there Indiscernible!?
If
okay. Talking
telephone, David,
to
is like
you and me.
this is
JIM: Oh,
okay. Yeah,
Iunderstand.
understand. Yeah.
David. DAVID: Yeah?
Yeah. Well,
let me
see if
--
6 1 92 at?
JIM: Hold
on just
a second.
Unidentified voices
JIM: Hey,
DAVID: Huh?
JIM: I
DAVID: Go
need you to
ahead.
help me
out on
this.
JIM: Okay.
92
the two
kids and they want to change this room I'm in. You
little bitty
yeah.
JIM: And
they want
other building
it'll be quiet.
JIM: They'll do --
I'll call
you with
it and
tell you,
p 92
1 1
two kids
ready and,
And then
get that.
little break,
DAVID: Okay.
going to
-- well,
like you say, then when the next car comes, can they,
can they bring us in new lines so
as much?
off
Yeah, I
for you.
want to
DAVID: Okay.
what
DAVID: Okay.
a number for you?
you
JIM: Unidentified
not discernible.! Really? -
JIM: Can
92
we work
that, we
can help?
Talking to
someone else.!
DAVID: Did
you get
the --
okay, here
you
are, take
-- put
it on
that there
-- put
it on is it now,
that Jim?
pad. Talking
JIM: It's
DAVID: Seven
JIM: -0545.
nine nine
--
DAVID: --
oh five
four five.
JIM: Okay?
DAVID: Seven JIM: Oh DAVID: -r s
--
four five.
JIM: Now,
so -until we know
okay? And
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: We'regoing to
the water tower.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Okay,
Chrissy?
DAVID: Yeah.
so, can
you get
Scott and
JIM: Cause
what I
is --
and the kids, you know, cause I've got to kind of, you
know, get
,92
off for
a few
minutes.
9 q @
DAVID: Okay,
JIM: So tell --
will do.
DAVID: Call
there.
me up
as soon
as the
car gets
we get
Cause -
yeah.
DAVID: Probably.
JIM: Oh,
DAVID: No.
yet.
Sita's not
JIM: Okay.
me call
I 92
All right,
let, let,
let me,
let
you in
a minute.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Ineed to, Ineed to
work this out with
the commanders
you know,
Iwant
and me
Indiscernible! kids
ought to talk, you
in the
know.
in the
driveway? to happen.
10
on their
~
way here
safely, okay?
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: And
for a few minutes ~
of
w DAVID: JIM: -
with you.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Okay,
JIM: Do
there?
Do we have transportation
them over two kids out first,
to -no,
aren't we?
DAVID: Good
Hello?
afternoon. May
I help
you?
1' i i
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
JIM: This is Jim.
JIM: How
DAVID: It's
'
you doing,
a miracle.
Buddy?
OO
11
those other
ready? Chrissy
to -
were you
JIM: No,
not yet.
-- move
over there
first.
in a few
minutes.
Iwanted
to get
this done
they sending
-~ oh.
Are they
Unidentified male
one of on the
asked
yeah. Could
the movement,
you tell
so Ican
me what time
tell him --
Unidentified male
discernible.! .0kay.
voice in
background not
DAVID: Who?
on.
What? My
grandmother? Turn.it
JIM: He
thinks his
grandmother is
on the
radio or
the TV
or something.
VOICE: Yeah. ~
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
you hear
that, Jim?
I didn't, David.
Q y I
12
was
lives down
in Chandler.
JIM: Oh, did you? Yeah. They've got a little train runs down that way.
DAVID: How do you spell your
again, Jim?
last name
JIM: C-A-V
-- C-AV
--
DAVID: All
JIM: -A-V
right, just
--
a second.
C --
DAVID: Canyou all give meanother pen, please? Sherry, try to get this to write. I need -I 92
C-A-V? C-A-V?
JIM: Did
DAVID:
you get
Yeah. C-A
your pencil?
--
JIM: CAV-AN-A-U-G-H.
DAVID: A-N --
JIM: A-U
DAVID:
- C-A-V-A-NA-U-G-H.
-- AU-G-H. Okie doke.
JIM: Is
DAVID:
she getting
Yeah. Are
the kids
tho se other
ready?
kids there
yet?
Pause!
JIM: David?
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Are
DAVID:
you okay,
Buddy?
y
Are the kids
JIM: I
-DAVID:
you groan a
kids. the what? kids.
little bit.
JIM: I
DAVID:
Oh, well,
want to
make
some noise?
p 92
JIM: Laughing!
14
problem, kids
making noise.
there's babies all in here,
DAVID: Oh,
hollering. I _ JIM:
keep looking
at them
last time
A DAVID:
DAVID: Is
JIM: Is
Sita
Sita there?
-yeah,
they're back.
DAVID: Where's
Sita?
DAVID:
Sita: Jim?
All right.
JIM: Hi,
Sita: Yes?
Sita.
JIM:
That went
smooth, okay?
Sita: Oh,
thing to give to
yes, fine.
I just
forgot one
the guys.
JIM: Okay.
Sita: But
there
of get
Is there
ladies watching
the
UI
5
Q 5
baby?
JIM: Yes.
two ladies here.
Sita: So
JIM: Yeah. two. Is it -is this
you
next
Iforgot
Scott and
JIM: Okay.
Sita: -JIM: Okay.
. 92
'
and seven.
is 11.
Sita: And
Chrissy is
seven.
JIM: Okay.
All right,
coats and
out because
And listen.
then -~
I told
get off
few minutes,
talk to
them and
16 all.
Sita:
Okay. You
want to
talk to
David
before you
go out?
JIM:
Yeah, let
me have
David. You
walk them
out right
now, okay?
Sita:
JIM:
get the
word.
Sita: JIM: DAVID JIM: DAVID
Okay.
Okay, Sita.
Hello.
Thanks.
she, she
does a good
job. our
telephone lines
JIM: DAVID
No, I
on that.
Oh, this
is what
they were
saying on
the radio,
that
JIM: DAVID JIM: DAVID JIM: DAVID:
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah. He
must be
a big
Hey, guy,
17
DAVID: Hey,
too. You be sure
you can
tell them
take your
that one
motorcycle,
of the
and
motorcycles here
JIM: We
-DAVID:
is yours,
move before
I'll be
okay? All
we --
right.
okay.
tell him
sure and
that --
when this
is all
over that
yours, all
right?
Okay. All
right. Love
me a kiss. Love
you. Remember be a
all
you, okay?
--
good girl
Okay. All
Yeah.
right. Now,
Jim --
-- make
sure these
guys are
bringing
the kids
to you.
JIM: DAVID: Yeah.
you --
when you
you open in it,
get this
this up,
you, you
exactly what's
all right?
JIM: You've
DAVID:
got it,
I will.
Okay. All
right. Have
the kids
gotten there
uh-uh. They
sure haven't.
yet. She's
getting them
ready.
_ 1a
0Q
DAVID: Oh,
JIM: You
well, I
know --
appreciate it.
in mankind, so beastly.
you
there was
women and
you know
JIM: Are
0 Dr coats on?
they coming?
Are they
-got
their
JIM: Okay,
Sita: Yes.
are they
ready?
JIM: Okay,
you going
out now?
Sita: Are
r"
they playing
the --
19 JIM:
We already
We didn't
played it.
hear it.
Sita:
JIM:
Oh. Well,
Imean,
Thanks a
we played
Iwill.
lot.
it before.
I'll
play it
again.
Sita:
JIM:
Okay. Just
take them
out to
the car,
okay?
Sita:
JIM:
Okay. Okay.
Pause!
JIM TO UNIDENTIFIED
Okay. Okay.
David? David?
TO UNIDENTIFIED
**i*
V
PERSON: I've lost him.
JIM
Hello.
Hey, Steve?
Yes.
Jim.
Hey, that
Okay.
-- off
phone just
went --
on me.
'
at now?
f 92
So, have
-- the,
20
been picked
up, right,
JIM TO
the two?
Have they picked
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON:
them up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
yes. A
SPEAKER: The
first two,
JIM: Yeah,
the first
two we
got.
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: But
Sita was
coming out
right now
with
STEVE: Yeah.
hear that announcement
I guess
on the
they're waiting
to
radio.
JIM: Oh.
we'l1 play it again.
I 92
We played
it, though,
a while --
STEVE: Okay. JIM: I Just I've got the mean I'll play it car sitting twice for -you.
there and
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: --
Iwanted
to get
them, you
know.
He says hevd
like to
get them.
JIM: Steve? STEVE: Yeah.
it twice
for us.
JIM: Did
Sita take
them out?
STEVE: Notyet.
JIM: Oh, okay. i
She's standing
right here.
They're ready to
21 go.
JIM: Ready
to go.
The car
is waiting.
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: So just have her go. Just go on out.
barn. Honestly,
no
the barn?
JIM: I
the back barn?
is. Is
that
STEVE: Yes,
cement block
a block,
building.
JIM: Okay.
property.
Let me,
right. Okay.
on one second.
STEVE: All
right.
at the
JIM: Okay,
f
we're checking.
I 1
22
STEVE: All
JIM: The
right.
barn --
STEVE: Just
hold on
one minute.
JIM: Okay.
Hey, Steve.
On the
other side
of the
fence then,
in the
back. on it,
I'll check
STEVE: Okay.
sure, you know, I mean --
But right
on the
property,
JIM: I'll
guaranteed safe
check on
it, but,
look, Sita
has
conduct.
STEVE: Right,
I realize
that. But,
you
know, they,
they always
get nervous
Well, go
ahead and
waiting. In
the meantime,
follow up
the back,
on that.
you know, STEVE :Okay
But, you
know, if
JIM: And,
go ahead and send
But
her out.
23 Steve.
Are they
coming?
STEVE: Yeah,
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: Yeah.
they're coming.
I just found out --
- JIM:
there.
were people
just found
out, we
just
gave th
move back.
STEVE: Okay,
JIM: They
there.
were, were
not supposed
to be
le involved
stave: Right. JIM: But
and, you
know, communications
--
we got
the word
for them
to move
back an
d-
- yeah,
change.
STEVE: Pardon?
shift change.
JIM: And,
people
and --
you know,
of
know,
STEVE: Right.
JIM: --
I told
24
kicking us
go across
out of
this building
here to
no. Really? no problem.
the alleyway
STEVE: Oh, JIM: It's
you know?
STEVE = Right .
JIM: And
STEVE: Just
a minute,
let me
see cause
she
went down ..
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: Yes,
4 "
she did leave.
JIM: She
STEVE: Yeah,
going to
don't want to
going to
hook-up.
wait till
92
25
s'rEvE = Okay.
JIM: Okay?
,:
And then I'm going to have to --
safe, and
then I'm
know, half
hour, 45
minutes.
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: And,
and --
and, you
talk
know, maybe you and David can get some time and
STEVE: Yeah,
he said,
you know,
he was
STEVE: Yeah,
these women.
They are,
the
women are giving up, you know, their most, came from their body.
JIM: Iunderstand and --
you know, it
do. Are
you a father,
JIM: Yes,
Ihave
two children.
them go.
them up. I mean,
26
what I
mean, though,
JIM: A
little while,
STEVE: Exactly.
mothers are.
JIM: You,
guys visit
and talk
and --
STEVE: Exactly,
right.
JIM: --
while we
take
a break,
to talk
about that
and us
resolving this
Right .
know, we . and he, and he needs -Steve, I'm can do it --
going to
he needs
about him.
tell you
something --
me --
some medical
attention. I'm
that, but
he's fine.
STEVE: Okay.
and just
27 / 92
I
even
I know.
I was
after him
JIM: And,
talk with him.
you know,
you think
about it
and
STEVE: Okay.
try to
get him
-call me back
right. You
want to
JIM: I
had the children.
just wanted
to give
you the
word we
hang on
right.
JIM: I'm
going to
they've
got them.
STEVE: Right.
_
Okay.
JIM: Hold
on one second --
all right,
-- Unidentified
STEVE: Jim,
I 92
92
f 92
28
JIM: Go ahead.
STEVE: Pardon? I've got another -I got a
call and
talk to
call?
someone here.
JIM: What
is it,
a reporter
or something?
while ago,
you okay
you know,
and all
one that
that?
us and,
you know,
of these
people
W K
well, you
STEVE: Can
going to go talk JIM: Well, to him.
Icall
you back?
Or, wait,
I'm
wait just
a second,
because
wanted to
right off,
kids done
and then
I'll get
know what
Imean?
JIM:
and then
Ijust
want to
a while.
a minute.
JIM: Yeah,
Sita, Sita's
out there.
f 92
29
JIM TO
have them?
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON:
DO we,
do we
haven't
They haven't?
they're - Jim?
David.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Where's Sita?
this Dobbs .
guy try
away everything.
JIM: Where's Sita at?
Where's Sita,
JIM: Okay,
--
JIM: Yeah,
think.
car,
DAVID: Okay. JIM: Yeah, Okay. ' okay. That's what Steve said.
DAVID: Well,
you -the
guys down
at the
tower will
see them.
-
probably see
them. Where
30
JIM:
big shift change. There's all kinds of police, you know, that worked all night and agents that are moving
around, ambulances,you know. You know, everybodys
got to go to bed, you know.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: You
can appreciate
yeah.
that.
ch
DAVID: Oh,
JIM: So
so --
JIM: --
you know,
in
JIM: And
then, and
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Okay?
92
I 92
31
on, let
me tell
Idon't want to
have -I
Indiscernible! says --
Ithink
tell them
DAVID TO
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON:
Tell them
co
female voice
in
JIM: Man,
DAVID: Yeah,
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: I
think about
-- I
want you to I.
me getting
to think
about it.
are just
telling everybody
that I'm
know --
92
32
be free
Iwant
I'd like
to ---
carry on
and
DAVID: My
ministry --
I've been in
it ever
DAVID: One
out of to learn
a thousand --
are interested
' 14
15
in the
Bible enough
JIM: David,
Sita's comingright now.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Okay?
I want to
give you
the word
in
just a minute. I
your right-hand
to think
man.
JIM: Listen,
You guys
92 I
92 92
o 33
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM:
Listen,
you.
about you.
concerned about
DAVID:
JIM:
Iknow I was
about me.
able to
DAVID:
JIM: NO
Iknow
--
the system
cares about
me.
Iknow
-look,
I've --look, in
right?
Um-hum.
In 1988,
and Ipraised
we got
in
when Iheard
okay? So,
into get
them in,
me, we
cause
weapons down and we was waving the one that was paying Mr.
George is
Rambo. Now, when they came in, the guys got all and says come on over and let's talk. All problem. They
weapons down,
Isaw
out
Isaid,
doing, Mr.
/' 92_
Thorn? He
frowned at
34 I 92
bit, you know. See, those guys knew we was out here.
Anyway, they sir. Yes, said now, sir. Then boys, is this all all of they you got? Yes, a sudden, get on the started kicking at us.
A JIM: Hmmm.
DAVID: And there was ants all
I
over the
by red
ants, you
know. I
mean,
you know,
they were
supposed to
and dealt
never sent us.
with George.
They should,
they should
have
JIM: Yeah,
yeah.
What
about it?
our flag.
JIM: You
know, I
remember -
you
were
JIM: Oh,
you okay?
I want
you and
Steve to
talk and,
getting some
medical
attention, okay? I
was able to get
get them
v-
to think about
to the
it. I
all
hospital and
taken care
DAVID: Uh-huh.
OO
35
tore up.
Some of
worse than
I'd liketo -
you to
JIM: I
mean, it
--
you to
talk
to Steve
about it,
to Steve
you know.
or --
Will you
promise
me
you'll talk
DAVID: Well,
the time.
him all
Imean,
but about
his advice,
you know,
about it,
his mind I think
know, only
know,
seven seals.
Imean,
36 /' 92
DAVID = Okay .
JIM: I
any more.
just, I
_ DAVID:
give me a call JIM: No,
Okay. Well,
back, okay? I want
go, and
-- I don't
to get
know, you, you guys would feel bad and I'd worse. feel
So, let's get them together. I'll give you that word
and then,
Q
you know
--
DAVID: Okay.
Well, let
me let
phone with someone elsereal quick so I can get do -I've got to do some moving around. sure. JIM: Okay,
JAMIE: Hello? JIM: Who's _ JAMIE: Jamie. this?
David. Yeah,
JIM: Jamie,
JAMIE: Oh,
this is
hi, Jim.
Jim.
JIM: How
JAMIE: Pretty JIM: Okay.
you doing?
good.
JAMIE: I
-- getting
37
himself up
A JAMIE: Okay.
JIM: -get you the word. Okay, here, . here, he's back. JAMIE: Yeah. JIM: Okay DAVID: Okay.
things
Idon't want to
do, and
JIM: We
the kids.
got the
got
DAVID: Yeah,
ahead.
it's myarm --
thanks. Go
JIM: You
DAVID: Yeah
hear?
.
kids, okay?
Everything's
H
take a
everyone.
DAVID: Yeah,
energy going.
Ineed
to rest
up, get
my
I 92
JIM: Hey,
there.
I love
you, Buddy.
Now hang in
DAVID: Okie
JIM: All
a DAVID = Bye.
doke. Catch
you later,
Jiw.
right, bye.
End of
Tape #7.!
'92
,92
U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF THE TREASURER
TAPE #8
3/1/93
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER #2:
As a matter
Of
fact, that
on here.
little speaker
over there
--
see if
it comes
SPEAKER #1:
That's what
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER #2:
Check and
see
if you
can -
_
make a
call, please
hang up
and then
Unidentified voices
discernible.!
in the
CO
# #2:
O.
test, 1,
2, 3.
Test, test.
MALE
SPEAKER SPEAKER
#3: #2.
Q.
14
MALE MALE
SPEAKER
SPEAKER
#3. #2.
hell
O.
test, 1,
getting --
2, 3.
Test, test.
They're really
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER
Test, test,
2
1, you
2, 3. doing?
Go ahead.
Test, test,
test,
3. How
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER
-on
that
speaker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE - UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER MALE SPEAKER
Yeah.
Test, test,
test, test,
1, 2,
3. Okay.
Unidentified voices
discernible.! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE UNIDENTIFIED MALE
in background
not
Hello.
wrong
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER: Who
am I
speaking to?
you call
back?
but wait a
SPEAKER: Yeah,
minute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER: okay.
Okay,
I'll
calllback.
DAVID: Hello.
JIM: David,
JIM: Listen, children Ithink
howyou doing,
Buddy?
just came
right.
DAVID: All
JIM: -p 92
gal.
Yeah.
that's it.
JIM: Yeah,
she's adorable.
DAVID: Okay,
hold on
a second.
JIM: Okay.
FEMALE SPEAKER TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Would you go get Kathy's brother, please?
JIM: Come
over here.
Jim. How you doing? Okay, you want to talk, you want
to talk to your mom?
CHRISSY: Yeah.
JIM: Okay, just a minute. Hello.
Pause!
JIM: Hello.
down.
.
Hello. They laid the phone
me. I'm
this is this is
JIM: Okay,
girl?
KATHY: Yes.
Kathy.
Is Chrissy
your little
JIM: Okay,
KATHY: Okay. JIM: Okay.
hold on.
they treating
you
KATHY: Okay.
KATHY: Brian
him? Did
said hi,
Chrissy. Did
you hear
you hear
him?
CHRISSY: Yeah.
you. too.
KATHY: Always.
CHRISSY: Okay.
Okay?
KATHY: Anything
else? Chrissy.
KATHY: Huh?
_W
talk to you. you. Bye-
KATHY: Okay.
Thank you.
I love
bye.
"
JIM:
Kathy.
JIM: And
he went
KATHY: Oh,
no.
KATHY: I have two more coming out and want them to meet up with Chrissy
their names?
and Scott.
I /|'
8 KATHY:
JIM: KATHY
:And
Brian
is --
this week.
A JIM:
Jake? KATHY JIM:
Okay. And
how is
Jake is
nine.
Nine, okay.
Now, hold
on just
minute.
KATHY JIM: SCOTT JIM: SCOTT JIM: KATHY: SCOTT: KATHY: SCOTT: KATHY:
Scott. Is
Yes.
Okay. Kathy,
Okay.
Hi.
How you
Fine.
doing?
people
out there,
huh?
SCOTT: KATHY:
All right.
take care
Okay.
of you
and you
of her.
SCOTT:
, -_
said, God
sits on
the
throne.
SCOTT KATHY SCOTT ~*KATHY : Yeah.
:
:
Ilove
Ilove
you.
you, too.
: Okay.
David
loves you.
Okay?
SCOTT KATHY JIM:
to talk
to you.
you. Bye-bye.
I r
Health and
Human
Services people
take care
of them,
you can
and get
Where does
them, because
he live?
Lives in
South Dakota.
It'll
probably take
IJIM:
him a
day to
Okay, Scott,
phone number?
see. Okay,
this. work
you to
okay?
KATHY:
try to
Yeah, Iknow
QO
10
with everything.
<.
hang in
to David
F 92
next? Yes.
JIM: Oh,
JIM: Okay.
they're ready.
his coat
and --
JIM: Tell
that.
I1
ll
Q 2
I
JIM: Okay,
that's great.
I I | 92
4 JIM:
6 KATHY:
_ 8
I 92
there?
9 KATHY:
10 JIM:
11 KATHY:
13 you
92
I, I, I
14 JIM:
16 and I'm just real
18 JIM:
19 don't want him t
20 you know, I'd like to get himsome medical help, but -21 okay,
22 out?
23 KATHY:
24 JIM:
25 well.
C O
12
1 Ieven though
2 JIM: 3 KATHY:
one.
4 JIM:
Sita. NO,
I,
Iunderstand.
The agents
5 have
6
p KATHY:
JIM: --
a bunch
of times
and --
KATHY: Yeah.
JIM: -BIG
she's doing a great job and you guys was great. So just keep it up and
super. This
JIM: And
f
now. Just
work with
*JIM:
Is David there?
All right.
JIM: _Okay.
KATHY: You
want to
talk to
him?
JIM: Well,
if, if
he wants a break, if --
I'll
I1 13 !2 ask me?
KATHY: No.
they
I just,
I just
want to know.
make sure
'
4
5 6
get to
their dad,
basically, you
can you
tell me?
"
7
8 9 10 11 12 13
JIM: Okay.
KATHY: And,
you know,
has already,
wanted them
JIM: Yeah.
he --
oh, what's --
I 92
, 14
15 16 17 18 We're
need to
turn on
Radio 1080,
KRLB.
play the
message.
KATHY: Okay.
JIM: And
to miss
KATHY: Okay.
going
I I
19
to play
20
.21 22 ~23 24 25
JIM: What,
the kids
about
going
you.
KATHY: Tell
I'll see them soon.
them soon,
~
, 92
JIM: Okay.
All right.
Cause, you
know,
know.
14
KATHY: Yeah,
out.
especially Brian
when he
comes
JIM: Okay.
So, you
know, I
KATHY: But
tell him
I'll see
him soon.
JIM: Okay.
Okay.
know their dad'1l take care of
JIM: Yeah.
though, isn't he?
away,
KATHY: Well,
you know,
legal battles,
you
know, could
anyway. So
ensue, but
he, he
would end
go to
up getting
him.
them
JIM: Well,
for their safety and,
know,
I'm sureit'll be a
little traumatic
for them
to go How long
I guess?
Has he
ever had
them?
KATHY: Well,
JIM: Yeah.
it?
for a
vacation, you
know.
short, isn't
15
KATHY: Well,
yeah.
okay. The
Air Force
probably.
KATHY: Yeah
KATHY: Right.
Rapid City.
JIM: Rapid
KATHY: Yeah
City.
A little
cold up there.
JIM: Does
children, up there?
KATHY: Yes,
he does.
i 92
JIM:
sure try to reach
Okay.
him.
All right.
KATHY: Yeah,
capable of
taking care
JIM: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED
you're
KATHY:
Okay.
JIM: Thanks
for your
help.
; O_
O
16
of them.
"JIM: You
KATHY: Oh,
to get
out of
this
your good
job.
JIM: All
right. Hang
you. Kathy.
care.
JIM: All
STEVE: Hello,
right .
Jim.
JIM: Hey,
STEVE: Not
Hello?
JIM: Hello.
Hey.
STEVE: He
just --
his knee
hit the,
the --
look out,
look out
there. Okay.
someone else.!
David is
really getting
17
on the
phone. They
were saying
a few
words to
him and
them to be cool,
and the
that everything
dead.
phone went
STEVE: They
can
stop
to do
that. in
no sense
doing that
talking to
with the
them about
JIM: Sure.
He's
STEVE: --
trying to
keep these
people, you
and they
don't know
STEVE: They
want to
hear the
voices and
say just
look, like,
you know,
but, you
know, they
like to
hear
JIM: Yeah.
Iunderstand.
STEVE: Can,
can you
have them
open up
a line
again? I
deal or
mean, in
what?
JIM: Well
fact, you
know, it's -- is
it a
big
--
I | | 92
18
them to
open up
- STEVE:
back. Or,
if
talk to
them, because,
mean, everything
you allowed
about what
yesterday,
talk with
in.
Imean,
some of
we appreciated
these stations
that
us to
we believe
JIM: Right.
STEVE: Here's David.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: Yeah, Jim --
JIM: David,
DAVID: Now, JIM: Okay.
DAVID: You
public of
All right,
with you.
You tell
back operatable,
OQ
1 night 2 killed
3
with the
knowled g ea th th tey
' re the
one that
just hang
--
JIM: I
understand.
children.
JIM: Right.
boneheads, these
and you
92
20 JIM: David --
DAVID: You
have a
be getting
phone. As
five lines
_STEVE: We DAVID: Okay,
STEVE: We
we're supposed
altogether, Steve?
actually have three lines.
had four --
three.
DAVID: So
cellular out, too.
we can
stay --
and they
cut our
JIM: Oh,
yeah.
guys if
DAVID: -1
then come
on.
no, we
DAVID: Prove
it to
me.
JIM: Well,
do is
relax and
do. But
with you
now.
JIM: You
difficult to do. And
be very
DAVID: Well,
,92
then this
is going
to be very
I 1
one of
that,
Idon't know. A
couple of
no gunon it.
STEVE TO
gun on
that.
it, it's
strictly bullet-proof.
I'm sureof
it is.
it. give
You
have been
could.
JIM: And
we haven'tdone that,
you know,
since you
that cease
fire Sunday
morning, right?
STEVE: Seems
well. That's why -
like it
has been
going very
about these
JIM: Well,
you know,
we haven't--
inches is
right. We
You're good
l x
want to
resolve it. STEVE: Pardon?
resolve it.
Unidentified voice
in
background not
getting the
discernible.! Whatever
kids out?
happened with
'
to get
out. We -talking
talking --
We were
about you
out --
and I
were working
about getting
the kids
were communicating
JIM: Right.
STEVE: Now
in these vehicles.
JIM: Yeah.
bringing
STEVE: So,
I mean,
what on
earth?
one thing
suppose maybe
the kids
you could
bring them
and wait
one, one
reason for
it is
we're
changing the
inner perimeter
to the,
to the
FBI and
I v
_ 6
ithey're going to
be the
ones holding
the inner
perimeter. And
farther.
pulling back
STEVE TO
UNIDENTIFIED PARTY:
He says
the ATF
indiscernible! going
to come
and kill
me.!
JIM: Hello?
come and kill you.
No, Honey,
nobodys going
to
going to
come and
Itold
you --
MR. KORESH:
JIM: What?
Hey, Jim.
This is
in your
hands now,
it's just --
You're the one, you're the one let me Itold tell you, Imade an across the
agreement with
table --
you straight
Now, if
they go
against your
will, you
can't do
nothing, can
work with
you. M. KORESH: But you told me I'm not the commander. No, I'm not
that you
was in
charge of
this.
JIM: Oh,
guy that'stalking to
you.
Right.
got all kinds of bosses and
Imean,
I've got
heavyweights, from
know. And,
the governor,
think about
you
me. I
and everybody
Imean,
get pressure.
I've got i
JIM: Well,
me ask
minute.
let
a
you to
do something
1 ,_
~ 8 I 1 92 I
MR. KORESH:
Uh-huh.
JIM: And
M. KORESH:
of pressure.
JIM: And
everybody's promising
me that
to you,
going to
telling you.
I went
the ex--
battle with
92 |
guns on there. I
with guns. They
Imean,
v |
that's it.
with it.
And I
I'm just
that, you
know, they'rejust,
say, taking
their inches.
They're
this deal. Gary
But, listen,
you told
that you
MR. KORESH:
JIM: Was
do.
1 c
9 p
you're starting
to, now
to move
No.
JIM: Well,
not coming making any in. Our
We're
property.
JIM: Well,
to try to see what I
I'm going
exactly they'll
be positioned.
What I
-- Here's what I
want you to do
a time.
4 call me.
for me,
one step
at
Let the
-You're going to
Pass the
I want you to
Or you
call them
call them.
I want
JIM: All
right, you
call me
and tell,
tell
10
1 me
where they
are. And
4 them.
There's noguns.
5 S
6 JIM:
A M.
7 MR.
8 over 9 know 10 caliber 11 behind 12 really 13 JIM: so many
like I
then you
say,
don't
what you're dealing with. aircraft barrel an evasive tell in plate. I certain distances David, listen. on it
know, you
1 14
word, repeat,
okay, no my
solemn promise,
17
18 to
going
19 MR.
20 here?
21 JIM:
22 MR.
when they
KORESH: Yeah.
going to
be there?
23 JIM:
Soon, you
know. Next
few --
24 MR.
KORESH: Okay,
once they
get situated,
a call
start this
what's happening.
again.
evacuating children
11
JIM: All
right. And
we -Listen,
Ijust
That's greatman, I'm telling you. I've got to deal with all
Just hang
these generals
I |
-I'm trying to
we took
you know,
to
the barrels
demonstrate that
but, you
agents hurt.
Well, we'll talk to
you later
get stopped,
okay?
M. KORESH: All right.
JIM: All
MR. KORESH: JIM: See
right, buddy.
Bye. you.
iitii
STEVE: Hello?
JIM: Hey,
STEVE: Yes.
Steve?
JIM: Hey,
STEVE: Yes,
this is
he is.
Jim. Is
David there?
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: Just a minute.
JIM: Okay.
12
MR. KORESH:
Hello, Jim?
JIM: Hey,
Jenessa. MR. KORESH:
David. I've
got this
child here,
Uh-huh.
JIM: And,
Ithink.
and she
wants to
talk to
her mom,
one second
now.
Okay, wait
a minute.
JIM: All
MR.
right.
what Ineed, what Ineed
KORESH: Okay,
to know,
okay, your
JIM: Are
guys are
they there?
moving in,
all right?
MR. KORESH:
around us. JIM: Yeah.
all
MR. KORESH:
heart --
So they're going to
bust us
in a
JIM: No.
to bust
you
tonight. No,
telling you
Hey, would
and then
is straight
up.
and let
you and
talk? 'Cause
while and
Ithink
tired.
to her.
MR. KORESH:
JIM: Okay.
me talk
92
13
JENESSA: Hi,
David.
you doing?
right,
sisters
-JENESSA=
yet, no.
phonetic sp.!
be
soon.
Okay, hold
on a
second. Jenessa,
upset right now.
know,
JENESSA: Okay.
all
later, okay?
all right?
JENESSA: Okay.
let me
JENESSA: Okay.
92
14 1
JIM: Thank
you. Can
I let
her go
now?
2 MR.
v 3
says she'lltalk to
JIM: Oh,
- MR.
okay. All
right.
now --
KORESH: Okay,
really down. You know, I mean, people are telling me that, that used to know you that, you know, you're
just you might sink real low in a situation
worried about it.
like
do is
we
get these
women out,
kids out.
then we
c hange and
out.
agreement with
told you, I said
kids out.
use, you
watching all
the TV
15
I mean , y the v
statement s, quarter
e got
' me painted
statements, you
bad. Half
JIM: Well,
KORESH:
they do that. I
Iknow, but that,
5 MR.
i I
tenor in
the public
JIM: Well,
you to open up to
to be want
to
I, Ican't, Ican't decipher the straight out what are your concerns, do? What can Ido
is I wantall these
every last one of them, everyman, everywoman, you know. And I want time, I want time for people to
think. JIM: Yeah.
time for
people to Iwant
live.
to have
A 16
time just
here --
MR. KORESH: me happen. where, where too much and really But I
-- and
want these
you all
but these
people
just giye
take their
me enoughtime because -- to
effect and JIM: But,
MR. KORESH:
JIM= David,
let these
--
wounds
me die ---
MR. KORESH:
No, Jim,
listen.
has been
painful for
us. Come
on.
Jim, listen,
listen, Jim,
hurts me
all
that.
right? I
truth but
JIM: Yeah,
MR. KORESH:
but we
I know.
JIM: You
come on.
-- Hey,
those news
media, you
guys,
let me of influence
explain and I
do have
17
understand that.
JIM: Yeah.
wound heal
that
trusses from
that you--
So all
I'm asking is
_
the guys off.
medical care,
JIM:
I 92
Iunderstand,
but just
listen --
JIM: Um-hum.
minute.
But just
listen for
just a
like me
okay?
listen --
Jim?
Ido,
but I,
18
MR. KORESH:
I asked
for it,
didn't I?
JIM: Yeah,
man and I know
but, you
about Jesus
hurt himself.
and he
Jesus didn't
to spread
MR. KORESH:
Yeah, and
--
media, with
is something
understand, slander
Look, the
people a
best thing
chance.
JIM: I
to do
right now
is to
give these
want them
all to
have a
chance.
MR. KORESH:
Yeah. And
injustice, I got to
they've system;
give theirselves
We knowthat. But,
far as the world time. You know, send
as
know, keep,
know, make
keep a perimeter
sure nobody
up. You
know, always,
you
leaves, you
know.
19
JIM: All right, David,let me-V MR. KORESH: Give us time to get hungry, give
with me?
us time
i JIM:
this take care of
JIM: Well,
JIM: Sure,
MR. KORESH:
it is.
Look --
JIM: Jesus
MR. KORESH: Look, let's, let's, let's get back on this one thing. God sits on the throne in
heaven, right?
does he or does he
he or does he
92 l
20 , 92
*JIM:
He loves
MR. KORBSH:
you, sure,
No, does he sit
he does.
on a throne or
-
not?
JIM: Sure,
he does.
MR. KORESH:
with seven seals? '
All right.
Does he
have a
book
JIM:
I'll take
Well, I'm
not sure.
But if
you say
so,
your word.
MR. KORESH: You can't do that. That makes
you like
a cult
follower.
JIM: David,
with I
okay?
kill
themselves or
die in
there? I'vegot to
I'm not going to
got to know.
know, buddy.
do that.
MR. KORESH:
JIM: I've
message. We
I want these
people to
it, you
have a
know.
chance to
sit this
out, think
about
JIM:
die? You tell me,
Well, what's
if you
going to
happen if
you
an
die from
that wound,
infection, I
happen.
what's going to
21
MR. KORESH: Well, I'm not going any more, am I, to influence anybody, right?
to be
around
JIM: Well,
people? Are they going
if you
let the
people think,
now --
here
JIM: Just l 92
--
JIM: You
I'm
trying to
let you
me look
inside your people and you to see what's going to go on, because unless you do, then, you know, it's going
to be hard to, to help. V '
what MR. KORESH:Well, I'm telling you
you'll do. Just give us some time, give us time, you know. That's all I'm asking. Give us time. You know,
you've all done
JIM: No,
of
00
22
MR.
up.
M Givethese people a chance before God to weigh out whether what they've learned in the
truth or,
scripture
is the
second
thoughts: But
time.
have that
JIM: David,
people helpless.
okay?
is not
JIM: But
word.
if you
live, you
can spread
the
JIM: But
the trial you had
In the
And the two black guys talked to me later and said that
92
23 r
92 between
hung that. all the
that black
The other way through.
guy and
Chebaz phonetic
that I
sp.!, they
was innocent
jurists knew
JIM: But
they acquitted
Yeah. But
MR. KORBSH:
happened.
JIM: Yeah.
court, come on.
a day
in
MR. KORESH;
Look, I
know, and
I've also
I'll tell do --
you what
start
know, just
there. And
I want
coming out
them to
get
right,
of there. out of
want you
to set
for them
to come
MR. KORESH:
Look, Jim
-v
you said
--
MR. KORESH= - a
plan. Just
let me
lay here
and let
nature take
its course
with me,
all right?
l l I I 24
JIM: Yeah,
M. KORESH:
you. 92
but you
That may
JIM: NO.
going to
Iwant
retaliate.
your folks to have a
chance in
life. And,
MR. KORESH:
92 ,
That's right.
And like
Gary last
our plan
night, I
was, and
kept telling
him over
he didn't seem to
understand. So
this
MR. KORESH:
There is
such a,
there is
such a
you talk
JIM: But,
you know,
92 -
92 25 1 2
say is
once we had an
agreement about
what
to happen,
You know,
what I'm saying -explained have decisions but what to you why. in them. I'm saying is;
it, but,
Iif
you could
make an agreement
there and
with your
you could
people that
-them what
them out
I am not going
never will.
to tell
Ishow
I never
have and
of
a book
what God
teaches. Then
decide.
JIM: David,
these, these
kids need
their
we want Can --
be safe.
let them
come out
MR. KORESH:
Hey, haven't,
haven't Sita
them already
come out? JIM: Oh, yeah, but Imean, Imean come out
and actually
stay out.
Yeah, but
the thing
of it is
is
to, they,
I,
I think
like they
M. KORESH:
now.
No, no,
no, no.
Let's stopthat
JIM: Okay.
Imean,
I think your
will is
so
l I l 1
92
26 ll 2 3 4 S 6
strong that
mean?
M. KORESH:
Jim --
JIM: David,
woman with some children.
MR. KORESH:
give me
a sign
and send,
send a
Jim --
JIM: Give
me a sign.
to play
that
JIM: Come
with some children.
on, give
me a sign.
Send a woman
JIM: Hey,
policeman.
MR. KORESH:
psychologist. You be a policeman.
I know.
have
have to
And
do
to do.
to give
us some time or
JIM: Oh,
OO
27
Hey --
MR. KORESH:
Or are
these guys
going to
come
in here
and
--
JIM: No,
buddy. You've
got it. AYou've the time. got Now, you're going tosee
y those vehicles, like
nothing else
I told
is happening.
about the
kids? Are
they upset
or
M. KORESH:
Aren't the,
aren't the,
aren't
the mothers
talking to
JIM: Yeah.
the children?
Oh --
Jay is.
You know,
Jay may
come
mother?
Yeah, she's, she's the mother of
MR. KORESH:
Jenessa.
JIM: Okay. MR. KORESH: talk to them right JIM: Okay. now. Would you -She says she doesn't want to
might come
out, you
Are we
going to
get any
other
it.
| 4 | w ,4 92 28
mean, you
we at?
know, what,
what are
we doing
now? Where
are
Hang in
there,
y A'MR.
to do it. Shoot.
JIM: Oh,
MR. KORESH:
get the van.
more out.
Go
JIM: All
M. KORESH:
it gets
p g
right. I'll
Okay. Well,
get the
van lined
a call
up.
when
give me
here.
JIM: All
right. You
line the
kids up
and
my watch
twenty
MR. KORESH:
All right.
JIM: Is
that enough
time to
walk out?
Okay.
JIM: Buddy,
MR. KORESH:
I'll call-Man,
Bye, Jim.
you're great.
on me.
JIM: Thanks.
Hang in there.
on you.
' i
I 1
| 29
JIM: All
right. Hang
in there.
children in
JIM: Hey,
M.
we're takingcare of
them, too.
KORESH: Okay.
JIM: And,
listen, if
you see
--
now?
can't? NO.
give you
a number?
we
can't call anybody now. We asked you to open up some lines for
we dial
Every time
it goes
da, da,
Hey, listen,
Here's Steve.
up and --
JIM: Hey,
Steve?
say, five,
third digit
get that
corrected
<
wanting to
talk, I
did, and
out here. hey, my . I just
we were trying to
get
apologies.
- We
had a
good
lot of
progress. And
a break to set
up a car.
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: I
f 92
want to.
JIM: Just
be patient.
JIM: Trust
STEVE: Okay.
me now.
Just hang
in there.
JIM: Keep
get everybody
everybody calm.
We're going to
hang in
STEVE: Okay.
-JIM:
eight.
92
quarter to
| I 92
31
STEVE: All
1
right.
JIM: And
he told
me he
couldn't dial
this
number. Did
you cheek
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
on that?
SPEAKER: Ihaven't checked
on it. tttti
STEVE: Hello?
JIM: Steve? STEVE: Yes. Jim.
JIM: Hey,
how you
doing?
STEVE: Well,
call there.
Iwas
kind of
waiting for
your
JIM: Yeah.
up that car.
I'm sorry,Igot
tied up
setting
STEVE: Okay.
car out
tower, but
I I
you know,
about an
eighth of
l I
OO
32
of
we thought tell me
false, we
radio that
eight o'clock,
JIM: Oh,
not true.
You stay
with me.
JIM: Absolutely.
w 92
STEVE: --
the beginning.
JIM: Oh,
that's baloney.
people --
I think
they just
sit
make up stuff.
know it.
Well, even
about David.
yeah.
said we did that.
STEVE: I
mean, I
just ripping
close.
us apart
with things
When we --
After we
resolve this
have a
I 92
33
92
| 4
chance to
clear all
STEVE: Well,
that up.
I hope
And I
so.
--
JIM: I
hope you
do because
it really
makes
to slander
you and
everything. And
are -trying to
it's wrong,
STEVE: Well,
they've having, you know, they're, they're think and decide what they want to do. You
he had to say
and
of them
-that. I
are --
really -
And I
sympathize.
That's balone
. Ev y ery
time you
--
JIM: No,
I'll
I know
STEVE: You
can even
got
C hat from.
B traight
-STEVE: Yeah.
92
34 l
JIM: --
straight up,
okay?
about him.
I, I
feel like
is going
to get
infected. I'vetalked to
srsvn: Right.
about this.
JIM: I
feel like
he might
die. If
that
happens, what,
to do?
do -to let
you going
you going
STEVE: Well,
on
children, right
want to
mind.
I 1
-- I
but I
want you
to walk
out of
JIM: I
I, I want to
do. And
save David
STEVE: But
JIM: I
know,
92
35
1 see
2
3 JIM:
how the
cow eats
the cabbage
.
here, you
know.
STEVE: Right
I, I
around with
4 you.
| v -1
I mean,
and I
5* don't want to
6
STEVE: Yeah.
7 JIM:
8 out what are
And I
you going
I asked
Dave? I
David straight
mean, Jesus
11 JIM:
Yeah, but
1 12
I I.
wound draw him weaker and weaker. 13 infection. He's going to get
an
E 14
1
back. He's going to get where we can't -STEVE: I mean, after all the
17 JIM: 18 STEVE: The guy's gone through All he's wanted to and love -- to show people
it seems
15
slander in
so --
the
E 16
world and everything he's gone through, I mean -do is speak and God's
I I
I 19
I
open up
20 going
what, what
in town.
to do,
bizarre as
I 21
l I
JIM: He'sgot a
chance to
make a difference.
to make a difference
me ask him, do
Unidentified male
1 23 ' 24
to talk
25 to
discernible.! He
said all
this
92
36
just --
this thing
resolved peacefully.
what he -- You know,
~that's what they want to do, but they're, they're -,.Actual1y, the truth is
JIM: They're STEVE:
JIM: Yeah.
they're terrified.
terrified?
Well, yeah.
STEVE: I
,
know, a
want to
say that,
JIM: Yeah.
know, they
I understand.
Well, that
know, all
that
Steve, it
really --
I, I
David. If
together and
,-
37
f X
has been,
on saying
well --
the
that's a bunch of
baloney,
STEVE: I
after eight.
trying to
possibly can.
know, be as straight
as I
JIM: You
that level.
on
things. I
but you know what I'm saying. you whether you were or not,
I |
92
38
1 ieverybody
2 you
3
follows the
dictates of
their conscience
and,
know,
they try
to do it the
also that sometimes, you know, youmake peace or throw down thesword or, you know,you, you love? And that's
what you guys are trying to do.
JIM: Okay.
sorry, Steve, wait
All right,
just a minute.
l |
a minute.
he wants
Unidentified
confusing to
> /-. *
39
l I
to do.
_JIM= Yeah.
STEVE: The
Well, look
mothers, You
-know, they're
standing there
scared even
-You
know, he,
he's been
saying well,
know, some know if
do you
of them
mind sending
are, are go along
your two
now and,
you
they should
what, you
y JIM:
come in a group?
of them
want to,
but
there's some that don't. And they're trying -know what I mean? JIM: Okay,
we -I 0
You
And let's-Maybe
I don't
want to
STEVE: You
know what
I mean?
It just
happened yesterday.
was starting because --they were
the greatest
to us the
I mean, everybody
and the whole
a
about it,
then with
they did,
Gary, well,
about you
you know,
there was
little bit
92
there, but
we thought
I ~_
commanders.
40 92 4
you
| I 92
us out,
though, about
lines, because,
to talk to their
they're parents,
JIM: I STEVE: --
we love
you and
all that.
here saying
finally we
leave these
get on
Steve.
STEVE:
Okay.
JIM: If,
if some
of the
people, some
women
could getin a
their safe
tell you
conduct. They
we're fine. STEVE: Okay,
I'm sorry.
I didn't want to
interrupt you
A
but there
right now.
is a
mother here,
she wants
to
send her
two out
JIM: Okay.
Let me
talk to
her.
STEVE: Okay,
just a
minute. What,
what's --
And Jamie?
I ,I 92 1 w
Talking to
of the
someoneelse.! Okay,
mothers that want to
there's
send each
two that
-- two
41
out one
right now.
JIM: All
right, listen
yeah.
-- Okay,
Steve.
STEVE: Okay,
JIM: Now,
A STEVE: JIM: Does
Just ask her.
let me
~ STEVE:
you
know, they're
.not
l 1
down at the
want to
other end.
do.
I'm lookin g at
and I, I
I'm
JIM: I
waiting to see what they want to you know, you think through
l 92
it. You
come here.
This happened,
to do and, and, in
waiting to
said and,
see what do
That's why
I heard to be
what he
so freehand
to be able to
92 I l ,-
say well,
Well, them
okay, it is
listen, Steve, to be with their
or not and
we want them to kids. And be
David
told me,
now, he
told
okay?
STEVE: All
42
,1 i
1 ' 2
JIM: Now,
word to me.
this --
there's a guy
that's never
broke his
3 STEVE:
4
1 5
on I tcare
what the
radio says,
6
17 I <
what Jim
something
a STEVE: 9 JIM:
10 someone
11 them
me that i
f there
was
who want
ed to come out,
he would
let
12 STEVE:
13 way.
That is
Okay. Now
of good faith and Just
Yeah?
be that
14 JIM:
hat I
m asking
is as
v 1 1
1 1 l
15 sign 16 STEVE:
17 JIM:
-a minute.
18 STEVE:
19 Brian and Jake, did
JIM: Oh,
Oh, Brian
they ever
Brian and
and Jake.
come?
Jake.
Oh, excuse
me,
20
I guess not.
to us on that, cause
In fact,
the y ' re still
back
92
43
JIM: Are
STEVE: Yeah.
they, are
they ready
now?
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: Yeah.
said --
-I
totally forgot
get those
two earlier,
STEVE: Exactly. JIM: Okay. STEVE: And
1 w I l
JIM: --
this, Steve?
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: Since
get their two --
the other
mother was
anxious to
srsvm All
I
right.
it with he said
he said
'
David, now. -- No,
--
I don't --
he --
STEVE: --
he agrees,
he says --
JIM: Then
I 92
44
messed up.
'
STEVE: Those,
those two,
they're still
talking now.
figure
and they
yet and
another minute
or two.
So --
STEVE: Okay,
_ 92 x 92
so the
two are
ready. Brian,
JIM: Okay.
I
that already,
JIM: Okay.
to help
92
A 0
1 Unidentified
. 2 discernible.!
3 UNIDENTIFIED
0
female voice in background not
Yeah? Which one?
FEMALE SPEAKER: David.
; .45
i_>
4 STEVE:
I
Oh, they
were wondering
what
5 happened,
6 more on the
message any
7 JIM:
,8
l
We did
play it.
A
Do you
have the
radio
on?
9 STEVE:
Yeah, they
do, they
do.
10 JIM:
11 played. 12 it,
1 13 ' 14
92-
we need the
time we
message
played
SPEAKER: You
want the
--
Q 16
17 message played?
18 STEVE:
19 JIM:
x 20 Okay,
1 21
K 22
23 you
24 STEVE:
I 25
,92 v I
JIM: But
is --
those
other mothers
the other --
there?
Ican
OO
' 46
I 1 1 1 2
see them.
right now.
JIM: Sit
them,
and if
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 92
they want to
and Jake,
four.
STEVE: I,
Ithink
-Okay,
are they?
--
STEVE: It
just said
on the
radio that
is ~- Ibelieve
are a lot of
out
JIM: You
Okay, can we -STEVE: Okay.
guys told
me that
I 92
92
O
JIM: Let
Steve.
Q
I47
me check
on the
car. Hold
on,
are the
kids ready
to walk
to walk
out?
they ready
out now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER: Yes.
they are.
JIM: All
right. Well,
here she
let me
is.
talk to
her.
STEVE: Okay,
/' N. SITA: Jim?
JIM: Sita,
SITA: Jittery,
how are
but --
you?
JIM: Listen,
on the radio is rubbish,
something,
that reports
hear me?
JIM: The,
the -
You will
out there.
I told
Steve and
the water
tower right
now. then.
SITA: Okay,
1 JIM:
QQ
48
4 I
3 JIM:
4 the 2 SITA:
5I
Hey, listen,
kids?
Yeah?
let me
ask you
something?
Do you
want to
come out
of there
with
6 bring.
7 JIM: 8 wanted
9 SITA
SITA:
Hey, I
got,
Igot
lots of
kids to
to
Okay. Well,
come out could come
David said
out. Well,
anybody who
you ask him.
10 JIM:
l 92
11 SITA
children.
I already
Okay.
me.
1 12
92 F '
13 JIM:
14
Right now
92 I 15 SITA
Well, why
kids and come out?
I, Iwas
-- your
16 JIM:
17 SITA
the first
one.
t18
19
92
and Angelica.
JIM:
Okay.
See, me,
one. Crystal
1 1 4
22 92 I23 92 92 24 w
Right.
21
know, yeah. I
.92 JIM:
,2s 4
I I , 92 l I I I 92 I
I know. They
92 Q
r 92
92 2 1
difficult because,
do, you're telling me
JIM: Well,
one, one more little
no, I
children in
I have
in? Okay.
of the
Talking to
children here
I have
another one
.
DAVID: Well,
stuff then.
get on
the ball
'
with that
other
JIM: Okay.
@u
~-
Hey, listen.
Just
JIM: Just
resolved.
right? Hey,
1 I |
|
JIM: Let,
to work on a few
STEVE: Thank JIM: Okay.
things.
,92
92
OA
22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 I 92 20 21 22
STEVE: Thank
you. Okay,
iiiii
bye.
STEVE: Hello?
JIM: Hey,
Steve?
92STEVE: Yeah.
JIM: This STEVE: Yes. is Jim.
STEVE: Yes,
he is.
David, you
want to
talk
to Jim?
to give having
phone number
the trouble.
the phone
number
trouble with.
Actually, all
JIM: Okay.
could. "
Well, I
me
92 23 1
24 92
to talk
to David, if I
Unidentified voice
Q O
23
They just
said it
JIM: Oh,
first number
is 863~
JIM: Okay.
one. We
--
time,
JIM: Let
me see what we
can do.
is
744
phone, is
JIM: Um-hum.
have 7 -- or
8635252.
All right,
I'm going
come to
92 1 92 /
92
'
24
STEVE: -5979.
JIM: Okay. Okay, I'll, I'll pass it on to
the technical
guys.
STEVE: Thank you much, Jim.
I -you monitor or
JIM: Okay.
STEVE: -.because,
what we believe.
JIM: I understand.
you know,
it's to do
with
can I
JIM: Hi.
got to talk about.
DAVID: All
right.
JIM: Okay?
anything, okay? with these
Now, listen to me
okay?
field
tactical commanders,
DAVID: Uh-huh.
JIM: You
/I 92 1 1
agents were
y 2s
A DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Okay. Now, the tactical commanders are
going to
move the
perimeter up.
let me,
and --
let me,
let me
tell you
DAVID: I
JIM: No,
know what
David, look
the reasons
--
are, Jim.
DAVID: Okay,
_
you want
to kill
us, come
and
kill us,
Jim.
~ JIM:
No. Hey,
David, no,
we're -~this
is
not it.
Now, let
me tell
let me
tell you
what we
did. Let
the night
vision Out by
JIM: Hey,
DAVID: Oh,
y 92
Q O
26
JIM: David,
walk you
out
you.
Hey .
vehicles up
only, okay?
|
okay? Defensive
DAVID: No,
JIM: One
. 1 4 l 4 I 92 1 A
We made them
on them, okay? You know, they have a big of the, you know,the troops want to
gun on
them.
and some
be protected.
92 I 92
DAVID: Look,
|
Let's
1 4
< 92 I
again, all
going to
JIM: David, I'm afraid they're probably be moving before I can stop them.
DAVID: Well --
27
JIM: I
to --
I want you
to
DAVID: Look,
we already
discussed --
you
So, like
that, I
I had
guys off
to do
of them.
Nothing is
happening except
perimeters. They
in and bother
be able
to come
come out,
come out
that's the
unless we
anybody to
progressive, nothingfor
not firing
any guns.
it was going
cheesing --
to get
28
to take
another inch,
another inch.
JIM: No,
tell you
this
as a sign Iwas
of good
faith.
tricking you.
going to happen.
DAVID: Yeah.
92 I 1
1 v c 92 I 11 12 13 14
going to
I'm telling you
up and
say Jim
feel
lied.
perimeter. And
come on our
--
1 | | 92
92
JIM:
going to happen.
"I5 16 17 18
DAVID: Well,
back.
get the
details and
call me
JIM: Well,
barrels to show you
DAVID: Come
JIM: Huh?
look, Ihad
there's no -on, Jim.
gun
92 l
19 20 21 22 23 24 92 25
DAVID:
Isaid
perimeter
JIM: Okay.
to see what Ican do.
92 1
Q 1 i 92 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 1 29
guns now.
wants to kill you.
wants to
kill
you.
JIM: Trust
- hey,
to let
you. All
going to
we're doing is
lot of
look like a
activity. They're
coming in there.
not coming
in there.
Nobody's
DAVID: Then
property.
tell them
to stay
off our
me. tears.
be some
JIM: No,
on, you can work with me.
trouble. Come
DAVID: Yeah,
Jim.
come on,
you can
work with me
21
.22
1 23 24 25
JIM: Come
on, David.
deal going
now with
the
out.
I 92 I
DAVID: Okay?
Now, if
anything to
you or these
hotheads, then
we'll have to
30
deal with
that later
JIM: No,
in the
we want
get hurt.
your people.
JIM: No,
stuff after the kids are out, you know. You don't need
to be messingaround right now,
Boy Scouts.
JIM: Well,
David --
they think
a secret?
31
know, I
can't give
them a time
frame. I
mean, what
the public from
stray rifle
fire, if
DAVID: The,
that would occur, and -the pub1ic's not even out here,
that
but there,
people on
--
limit that
--
you're going
to come
in. We
are not
coming
DAVID: Well,
if you
keep getting
closer,
I'm sorry.
JIM: Well, David -'
' DAVID:
erratic finger
then finally
to slug you.
JIM: Yeah.
C.
32
DAVID:
JIM: Yeah.
Imean,
I don'twant that
to happen.
DAVID: You
know,
Imean,
this is
a great
nation, but,
JIM:
like
Isaid,
Yeah.
my God.
DAVID: Now,
the whole
meanings of
what I'm
trying to
now.
tell you
in the seals
guy
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay,
you tried
to push you.
me.
Gonzalez on
And you God who
JIM: Um-hum.
the TV,
you know.
remember, nations.
They tried
Itried to tell
to
guy.
Remember, David
stones. And
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: And
in with a rock. Think about
Goliath does
that.
get his
head sunken
JIM: Well,
listen, David,
I, I
don't want
33
you
to put
more into
DAVID: Hey
JIM: It's
this than
-not.
is happening.
DAVID: --
the same,
the same,
all right?
A JIM: Okay.
DAVID: You tell these guys to back off.
JIM: Yeah.
Listen, okay.
Ijust
want you
to relax.
okay? Do
r 92
Call me if
DAVID: You what you
can, Jim.
STEVE: Okay.
minute.
Let me
talk to
Steve just
DAVID: Okay,
here.
JIM:
hello?
Iwant to explain it to
him. Steve,
JIM: Hey,
this
is Jim.
Jim.
STEVE: All
right.
34
you're going to see these vehicles see where they're set up, okay?
*STEVE: I'mlistening. JIM: And once they go to
JIM: I,
I said
92 F
closer. Wherever
of the property?
-- yeah,
they're going
now, I
okay? And,
told David,
vehicles, three
vehicles
that will
here anyway?
okay?
STEVE: And what would an agent be doing near JIM: Well, so nobody goes in. we're, we're trying to You know all the get around
trouble we had
I can't. Talking to
we had, people
35
in the
our men
can put
And, you
to. When
these things,
us and it protects
them. I mean,
mean, it
that?
would sound
good to
a kindergartner,
you know
had the
gums
do?
JIM: Yeah.
I mean,
rifles
and, I
I mean,
mean, you
so --
through a
car.
STEVE: Just
a moment.
Unidentified voices,
the
have to check
is
they stop,
not going you call
They're
see them,
around. And
don't
92
36 /' 92
like it
at all.
JIM: It's, it's only three vehicles. STEVE: Well, what is the -there, there is
not a
you're
doing such
see ~-
JIM:
bloodshed, Steve,
Well, there's
and -you want to
already been
too much
STEVE: And
JIM: No.
cause more.
STEVE: Is
; JIM: N0. s
that the
idea?
JIM: Well, we've got -the reason we're doing it is we've got new personnel, we're changing
shifts. We've got other agents --
I mean, it's
37
quite obvious
Well, no.
never did.
when
know, but your guys did, okay? We'regoing not to have there, that.
remember?
I took a
out even
little time
then.
and then we
JIM: Right.
that --
v __ .~
U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF THE
TREASURY
TAPE #9
3/1/93
start tape
#9!
STEVE: Where did
they get
the command
to do
that,
the
do that? I don
officers.
there
are
so many
STEVE: I
this?
thought
JIM: Yeah,
we ar e. But
there's a lot
of
people hereand, you know, theymoved up closer than they should have, so we pulled them back. But these -STEVE: Okay, why don't you, why don't you --
I don't -- we
don't
goes, we
STEVE: Do
JIM: Steve, I do. But, look, there's an advantage here for you, okay? That is -STEVE TO UNIDENTI
FIED PARTY:
What's the
advantage for us to
I
3
JIM: Hey,
Steve.
see these
We
I don't care
- What kind of
JIM: Well,
they're --
APC.
can shoot at us
JIM: N0.
STEVE: -~
so forth.
them. There's
92
I 92
49
have their do is
guys out waiting.
I want
you, and
Iwant
you to
talk to
these two
the car's
right now,
these two
SITA:
JIM: But want you to talk
Okay.
I want to Steve you to and David think about about some it and of the I
mothers coming,
and also,
you know,
some of
the kids
JIM: I,
wound and infections and
I'm just
--
about him,
okay? And
~ 92
I think
he wants
to keep
going a
little his
I do
can get
SITA: NO.
JIM: All
ahead and take those SITA: Okay. JIM: Okay, SITA: Okay, JIM: All
what, you go
right.
good
STEVE: Yeah,
she
was getting
pretty broke
up
Q
I 92
I
50
right then.'
SITA: Yeah,
she loves
those kids,
man, Ican
tell. She
though.
trusts me,
though.
STEVE: Well,
JIM: And
_
she does.
--
said thatright
I
you.
just hard
in
to work out
JIM: But,
listen, we
.
51
terrified. I
JIM: Yeah.
Well,
Ican
understand that.
you, you
know, you may come to a point with David and you say David,
when you
get together
go out as a
what
-here, that's
STEVE: Some
want to
stay together
and we want
to all
come out,
you
life.
know, I,
Ilike
everybody,
JIM: Yeah,
STEVE: Well,
but you
Iappreciate
great, you
know, Ido,
JIM: Imean,
Ido
you love
a, a
guy.
friend.
for a lot of people, Ireally do. You know, I mean, he, he's shown me a lot and shareda lot and, you know, Ihaven't - I've seenwhat he'sbeen sayingand, you
52
it myself
for sure.
But --
STEVE: Yeah,
on this.
satisfaction to
accomplishing
JIM:
think about.
-I
want to
give you
something to,
to
STEVE: All
right.
JIM: Okay?
r k
but and
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: These
got
you
man, they've
STEVE: Right.
'
JIM: And
21
conversations.
I want
to tell
them about
our
;'
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: And
possibility now -STEVE: Okay.
JIM: Okay,
the possibility
now, we
92
S3
1 understand?
2 STEVE:
Okay.
3 JIM:
4 if
6 STEVE:
7 JIM:
11 JIM:
12: you all --
mean, would
13 STEVE:
16 STEVE:
a possibility maybe
something that would
19 JIM:
20 be dynamic.
I mean something,
Yeah.
21 STEVE:
22 JIM:
23 to
' 2 4 1 92
25 JIM:
l l
.
54 4 v
stars, you
you leave
it to
me to you, if
get we_can
acceptable to
I mean, to get
need to
are religious.
STEVE: Well, let me mention it to him, at
_least, here.
JIM: Yes.
-- Steve?
or
If
it's possibleif
the best
he could
put you
possible --
in touch
with the,
like the
news coverage
I mentioned
you as a group
come out
Can't do
that.
STEVE: Well,
he's saying
he can't do that
you know,
to be of -Some rest.
<
move on their
,.
JIM: Yeah.
Well, look,
92
55
to him,
you know.
STEVE: Yeah.
JIM: I think it would
_
be something real
positiveAand, you
concerned. And
treat his wounds.
know, real
positive for
everybody
STEVE: Well,
he was
wondering there
couldn't
JIM: Well,
STEVE: Could the kids, could you am. Well,
try to --
mean, you
know, Alex,
you know,
you
a guy
that's given to
know, if
Steve.
.STEVE: Yeah?
JIM: The
where's the kids. Have
longer. Have
the kids
.
left?
JIM: Send
them up
to the
water tower
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER: Have
STEVE: Okay.
Yeah, they
--
<
[1
I
x |
l 1
r~ 92 I
92
Q Q
C
'u.s. DEPARTMENT op THE TREASURY
BUREAU or ALCOHOL, TOBACCO a FIREARMS
14
15
TAPE #1oA
3/1/93
92
crying in
most of
tape!
is. It's
and it's
going
A STEVE:
I 92
like being
on a
-- up
and
down on
waves here,
JIM: Yeah,
STEVE: Should
you going to call me
I call you
back or --
back then
or are
want to we got
the kids
-- I
want
that. He
you there,
work on
radio station
know there is
one thing.
that haven'tmade up
their mind,
like brush
and stuff
stuck in their
helmets. They're
the
about
in camouflage,
property. You
you said
92
3 those --
JIM: Okay.
STEVE:
there? JIM:
-those
kind of
vehicles being
Yeah.
STEVE: Well, we were going along moving with the kids. and, you
that -
it,
we're what
But who
I mean,
are they
had control
doing there?
over these
thought you
JIM: You
movement, Iunderstand
of perimeter
STEVE:
Imean
that's thekind of
thing
that
makes some
be, you
of these people
nervous. They
don't want to
and
they're afraid to
kind of like almost
move. A
frozen.
lot of
JIM: Yeah,
You have my word.
STEVE:
Iknow,
Iknow
there's perimeter --
Yeah.
JIM: --
people, Steve.
I,
Iknow
there is.,
doing on
the property
that?
JIM: Yeah,
that.
got to,
of, like
I said earlier,
4 92 92 92
brass tacks,
tell us,
you told
why those,
to get
back
STEVE: Can
you?
JIM: Yeah,
back --
I will.
to go
STEVE: I,
I really
believe it'll
make it
easier if
you don't -- if
that.
going to
be
feeling much more safe and, and -- I know, it's night, they
They're, they're scared.
' JIM: I know. STEVE: Okay.
have to
do.
JIM: As
I'm going to
92 1
hooked up,
go back
commanders --
92
STEVE: All
right. Okay.
92
JIM: -swsvs :
JIM: And,
okay?
issues we've
discussed.
STEVE: Right, JIM: I've got to
bunch of them in here.
A
okay. round them up. There's B
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: And --
STEVE: And
call me
back then?
JIM: No,
because I
want to
hook these
kids
up, okay?
And, and,
and, and
David said
that
he wanted
to keep
the kids
srsvs :
coming out.
Right .
JIM: And
coming out
Scott.
JIM: So
got Henry here, okay?
what, what
I want
you to
do, I've
STEVE: Okay.
me all
through this.
JIM:_ Okay?
doing everything, okay?
Helping me,
setting up
the car,
.1
92
I know
the guy,
Everything
A STEVE:
Okay.
6
7 lchanges
8 with
JIM:
to the,
to work
he sat and went
you. He
9 through
10 STEVE: 11 JIM:
12 STEVE:
everything.
'
Okay.
Okay?
Yeah.
he really to just
is a
talk with
15 mechanics
16 then,
17 okay?
18 STEVE:
of getting
and then,
Chrissy and
just to
Scott out,
continue with
okay? And
it,
you know,
Yeah.
19 V
JIM:
While I
go try
to work
on these
20 commanders.
21 positive.
As long
I mean,
it's
22 A STEVE:
23 JIM:
Okay.
Okay?
24 STEVE:
25 here and talk
Is it
with them
okay if
then?
I get
off the
phone
JIM:
Okay, wait.
There'svehicle a
E.
92 7
1 approaching.
2 STEVE 3 JIM: 4 92 STEVE and-
:Okay.
You know --
:.1
tell you,
with me
one second,
Steve.
-- what
to Henry
know, David
a mind to.
I want
you --
After, after
you a break, come out if
you
but, he
11 talk
12 you
13 has
14 STEVE
:
to them.
Well, you
v . 16
15 saying
He again
said to
he said right
know,
know, I'm
telling you
he can
hardly talk.
Yeah.
20 STEVE
= He but he
JIM:
mustered up
what he
could to
talk
. 31
92 22 23
with you,
is tired.
Well, you,
with him,
w do now.
24 I , 25
Well, that's
to do.
what I
need to
That's what
JIM:
I wanted
Okay. Let
we've got
92 | I
0
8
rI 92
the kids
--'
STEVE: Okay.
JIM: --
and then
you can
work out
with Henry
just
a time
to, you
know, to
keep bringing
people out
anybody
JIM:
92
Imean,
STEVE: Okay.
right down
the line,
5' L
are
l
Okay.
JIM: The
there. You
commanders are
telling me
the cars
okay?
JIM: You
know --
Okay, the
kids are
out?
STEVE:
Okay.
JIM: You'vegot my
word, its
solid, it's
JIM:
Iknow,
9 7 92
Wait. Indiscernible
voice
in
background! David,
hit us tonight, he says.
he believes
JIM: No,
is not true.
we are
not fixing
to hit you.
That
STEVE: I
mean, here's,
radio again,
getting that
you know.
information?
Imean,
where, where
are they
JIM: You
rubbish. I 92
know, that
is baloney.
It's
. STEVE:
the way and to
was told
to get
out of
than
farther back
what they
are even
now. Why
is that?
A thousand it's
Do we got those
STEVE: Yeah.
Steve?
JIM: Let
me check
here. Hold
on a
second.
Safety of
what?
Right now
what?
on the
news all
/ 92
the press
is, is
being told
to move back
Q O
10
own safety.
Oh, well,
JIM: Yeah.
of the
- They've been
for safety,
B18311 , WOW -
that they
JIM: Oh,
yeah, but
I mean, they've
road. It's
nothing,trust me.
to -Tell you
know, yougo out and the lieutenant says get rid of all
the reporters.
no big thing. Okay,
STEVE: Yeah.
JIM: -
on.
OQ
11
in to
pick up JIM:
STEVE: Okay.
'
JIM: They're
safe.
A STEVE:
Okay.
on the way back here.
JIM: They're
the phone
them call
_ right.
again? And
we're workingon
go talk
-- try
to talk
JIM: Okay.
try to
get them
going
then right If I
could encourage
them somehow.
Hello, Jim?
JIM: Hold
STEVE :
on, hold
Okay .
on a minute.
JIM: Hold
tell me something STEVE: All [gap]
JIM: Okay,
what, let's --~ STEVE :
Okay .
12 r s
JIM:
-can
we take,
thanks.
take
a break?
STEVE: Oh,
JIM: Can
you --
actually kind
of lay
JIM: Take
STEVE: Yeah.
able to. I'm still
a break.
Well, so
here?
haven't been
I tried
not able
JIM: Okay.
to call
to get
you about
out.
10 minutes
ago and
it --
Do you
think --
on, let
me check
on it.
STEVE: When,
when should
I call
you?
JIM: Have
someone else.!
you got
4 g
that set
Steve --
up? Talking
to
Okay, listen,
up the
phone --
s'rr~:v.-=3 Right = .
JIM: -set it to
have the
technician
ring my
I,
92
STEVE: Okay.
now, just
O
13 r 92JIM: STEVE JIM: STEVE JIM: STEVE JIM: STEVE JIM: H18. STEVE
to try
to try want.
it right
now?
I mean,
would that
thing or
--
Just leave
All right.
it hang
up for
15 seconds.
And then
pick it
up and
see if
you get
I 92'
STEVE HENRY STEVE 92 HENRY: STEVE HENRY STEVE HENRY: STEVE HENRY: STEVE HENRY: STEVE
Hello?
Steve? Yeah.
This is
Henry?
Yeah.
Henry.
Oh, okay.
Did you
Yeah, I
it up
and --
- just Just --
/ 92
92
O
F 92
pick it
O
14
HENRY: You
up and just hold
at all,
try to
just
- Can I
STEVE: I
try it again?
A HENRY
STEVE
see. Okay,
let me
Sure.
Okay, thanks.
iiiii
Hello?
Hello, Steve?
Yes.
This is
Well, I
tried to
call you
back but
guess it
didn't work.
HENRY: Okay.
here, but
just before
are going
STEVE: The,
HENRY:
general perimeter
about that earlier?
The carriers
of the
that are
HENRY: Well,
those, those
are the
ones that
15
now. I
STEVE: Yeah.
are they called?
HENRY: APC's.
What
now that
they
to
don't
Yeah, they
to shoot.
the muzzles
were
everything should
Henry, what
happened
l HENRY:
1
-some
92
16
the details.
to try
people that
try to do
out and
out.
is we'd like
any other
to continue
UNIDENTIFIED PARTY:
Okay. S0
to come out.
about what.
background not
discernible.! wants Jim here, I to give guess. . Is Jake -- I have Jake here, him a call as
or Jacob.
STEVE: Okay.
HENRY: Who would Jacob be talking STEVE: Who would Jake be talking Jake there, female voice of course, and little
Brian. Unidentified
in background
not discernible.!
[gap]
HENRY:Yes. you
a second.
on just
JAKE: Hi.
Ilove
92
92
92
17
1 you.
I love
you. Tell
Brian, okay?
Tell Brian
I love
2 him,
3 the
the other
guyback on
I love
you. Tell
Bye.
me, tell
4 JAKE:
S A
6 HENRY:
7 UNIDENTIFIED
8 back
9 HENRY
10
on the
phone
Huh?
11 HENRY:
12 [gap]
13 HENRY: 14
15
Hello?
[gap]
HENRY:
Hello?
16 STEVE:
17 HENRY: 18 STEVE: 19 then or --
Henry?
Yes.
92
Jim
So is
20 HENRY:
Well, not
to some of
just now.
our ~ -
Well, can
you have
him call
bank as
|
soon as
the next
two --
If you'reready to,
tose
to send
two other
people now,
now.
arrangements right
I 92
I
/ 92
18
A STEVE:
All right .
you, are you ready to send them
HENRY: Are
right now?
STEVE: Well, want to or -talk to Jim about
A
he mentioned the next -- What, did you two that you have deal going guess.
talk to
Yeah, he says him and Jim's got the keep on talking with
I'd like to -
and he wants to
Jim, I
Can I
STEVE: Okay.
MR. KORESH:
He wants
Hello?
to talk
to yow.
HENRY: How
are you
doing?
MR. KORESH:
doing. HENRY: How
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: Um-hum.
Kind of
weak. How
are you
boys
do you
How do
feel now?
I feel
~
now?
continue working
were before.
bringing out
additional children,
that we had
same agreement
19
before. And
everybody has you know,
if possible,
you. We taking care
you know,
feel that, of
here about
yourself. We
happen to you.
yourself.
we want
coming out
come out,
everybody to to give
concern to,
alive. We
that you
I was
into that
telling Jim,
Bible. I
told him
the, the
fifth seal,
if you
look at the
sixth seal,
if you
look
Now, whatever
that means,
you know,
I'd like
with you
guys in
full. I'd
like you
to grab what
the ancients
And that
realize that,
for that.
~ A
concerns that we
20 mentioned
earlier that
fa
you felt
that people
that everybody
were
has,
calling y
may in
whereas i save your
fight in
terms of trying to
continue to
will be
not the
okay?
family
And
alive.
needs you.
of this
wants to
see you
come out
--
These people
listen to
the kids
need you.
HENRY: I
will listen
to you.
M. KORESH:
HENRY: Yes,
you're now
an
witness is
mpire called
HENRY: Um-hum.
ancient e
92
21
And
God had a
people that
them laws
he brought
and statutes
out of
and~
head of
all nations.
laws,
nations
he'll scatter
of the
them amongst
rule over
heathens will
people. But,
worse than
when
prophets such
as Isaiah,
Malachi, Nahum.
Zephaniah, Habakkuk,
these prophets,
Daniel was
he was
shown, while
under the
of the
Chaldean captivity,
earth that shall
shown that
the nations
rule over
image, and silver, belly
and part
symbolized as
head of gold, arms
one great
of iron
.
will be
legs of
iron, feet
part of
And Daniel
says to
the king,
Nebuchadnezzar,
of the
day, and
this head
C
after thee shall arise
thee, and yet a third
fourth kingdom,
the whole world.
A HENRY: Um-hum.
C
22
dreadful and
MR. KORESH:
And then
there shall
be a
at the
ten toes,
partly strong
up under the
nomadic kingdoms,
it fell
into many
different kingdoms.
HENRY: Um-hum.
Now,
is still a they as in
on to
while Europe
the subject
It talks
the Book
that which
of Revelation
must be
God will
one day
in the
the
shall come
and sit on
heaven, and
book? The
book is
in the
right hand
lose these
seven seals
thereof, scripture
that no man in
clearly
on earth
teaches Christendom,
heaven nor
neither under
earth was
able to
open and
he looked
92
-_
23 thereon. HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORBSH:
But the
lamb, the
lamb is
symbolized as
a lamb
with seven
eyes and
seven horns.
MR. KORESH:
knows what that book
many who
sake of
acid
subjects opening
white
book revolve
and what
horse,
a man
on a red horse,
the altar
black and
pale. Dead
of their
souls under
described to
God because
blood that's been shed, and then the time whenthe sun
and moon and stars part as a scroll will be and the darkened, the great man,
to the from the
mighty men,
them and
sits on
the great
the throne
of the
lamb, but
MR. KORESH: cause nobody really know Chapter 10, really has
become familiar
with the
symbols, in
Chapter 10,
after
92
24
talking about
heaven. And
overthrow the
and it's
revelation of
be finished,
the prophets.
HENRY: Umfhum.
chapter, after
person takes the time to read these things, it's very clear, the statement, Christ says I
testify to these things and the offspring of
a great
r k
in the
David. Now,
king, wasn'the?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
his
little
sling stone
giant Goliath.
HENRY: Right.
I come quickly. My
to every man according
give it
the
OO
25
MR. KORESH:
God gave
him a
book, a
revelation of author of
And when
going to
find out
bring this
that it
book and
is the
mankind is
supposed to
the
Bible, the
Bible which
spoken by
the spirit
that God to
a testament
in regards in the
Revelation 13,
John sees
in regards
seventh seal,
This beast
like a leopard, feet
has a head
of a bear.
like a
lion,
a body
7, Daniel
In Daniel
foretold that
the empires
of Babylon
-- Persia, as a lion,
Greece -ourth
And the
the three
Now, that
beasts
was Rome.
Daniel also
says in
the days
of this
kingdom they
will
kill the
prince of
the covenant.
They could
place abomination
change
to
make desolate
religion is
false religion.
the religion of God.
true
HENRY: Um-hum.
26
Rome and
on the
cross. Very
clearly, it's
n the
t
gospel records.
father, forgive
them for
And then
he said
into thy
hand I
spirit. And
the word
the hand
of God,
of God
has a
book, the
earth.
God made
heaven and
word, there
was prophets.
The events
that
you're now
witnessing
taking pla
that day let thine the Lord, t
Book of
know not
the thoughts
they understand
his counsel.
All of
Nahum, it
for insta
through it talks
the Book
of
make it
David in
real simple,
revelation. So
he
Book of
y of
, for
fut
instance Psalms
a confrontation
2, David
sees a
vision
ure, of
between man
and man's
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
-- and
God and
God's law.
lamb-like beast
two
27
States of
2, the
You know,
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH:
HENRY: Um-hum.
word.
get angry.
vain things,
for the
leaders of
rulers take
counsel together
HENRY: Um-hum.
against the
Lord --
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: Um-hum.
- and
against his
anointed.
Saying let
us break his
bands
seven bands
that Christ
promises to
seals, right?
bring when
seven
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
92 I 1
But Zachariah
and the
other
28 I 92
heavens ~-
MR. KORESH:
-shall
laugh, for
the Lord
shall have
them, the
heathen, in
confusion. See,
the time
subject which
by earnest
study that
things will
remain a mystery
HENRY: Um~hum.
until Christ
comes again.
these mysteries.
heathen and
their tactics
in dealing
upon their
with a person
laws, they
fail to
has a law
key. so
r 1 1
it says,
then shall
the Lord
' 29 C
during the sixth seal.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
The sun
and moon
and stars
is
darkened, the heaven departs as a scroll, and the great men of the earth cry to the rocks and mountains to hide them from the face of the reality that know aforetime what Godsaid will they would not be. So they end up
fulfilling prophecy, not knowing what side they're doing. But to the wise, when God speaksin his wrath, they already know of the events.
I set my king up on my holy hill of So irrespective may take against the
I 92
truth of
the image in
great men
spoken is
prophets have
30
HENRY: Um-hum.
to for
thine inheritance
for thy pieces with
parts of
dash the break them
the earth
heathen to as a
I mean, nobody
wants
to be
hurt,
really.
HENRY: Um-hum.
is because
wise, ye
it continues
rulers of
judges of
the earth.
Lord son,
least he
when is
HENRY: Well,
either.
your show
of arms
is
92
O y Q
31
for they
calamity; and
prevented me.
a calamity, really,
it goes
terrible event
you know,
_ You
that takes
guys are
place afterwards,
too big
laws are
because,
you all
for
me.
than
know, your
more numerous
stronger.
But not
really. You
see, not
of Israel
really. You
was having
know, Elijah
to face
in his
day, the
and the
king
the Moabites
like in
the days of
Assyrian armies
came
92.
15
wouldn't he?
DAVID: Yeah.
so. Yeah, that's
Ican'tget down
there to
it
money. And
you do
has a
me a favor, and
make it,
such a fashion
that, that
in order
to
avoid their
or whatever
wanting to chop it
-DAVID:
up or to play
part of
it
How much,
how much
does it
cost their
air time?
HENRY DAVID: HENRY:
Well, that's
Per minute?
the
whole thing.
thing. You
know, so
How much
does it
cost?
idea. But
idea. But
so that will get
you
to make it as we can
out. Nothing
message will
DAVID: Well,
say remember
I'll even
16
buy the
time. You
know?
HENRY: Well,
DAVID: We will
you know,
fund it.
we don't need --
HENRY: --
We --
what we
want is we
want you to -
cooperation, and
do. So
I want
to live
up to
my part
of it.
Yeah, I
need --
Hello? Hello?
HENRY: Jesus.
DAVID: Hello? HENRY: Hello.
DAVID: Hello.
HENRY: Who
Unidentified voice
in
HENRY: What
-- you
know, what
I, what
would like
to see
is I
would like
for you
to, to
prepare yourself
message out and --
DAVID: Okay,
HENRY: Now,
I'm a little
bit confused
about
one thing.
a man of your that you
Okay? I,
17
theology. I'mnot as
are, okay? But one
versed as
I have
you
is I am
of the
this thing
is going
to be resolved without
hurt.
anybody --
DAVID: Getting
that. The
world so
that includes
you. Am
I correct
It's a
HENRY: Okay.
Am I, am I correct in my
HENRY: Okay.
tDAVID:
So let's,let --
I got
to start
editing
this and,
right?
HENRY: Yes.
the children,
18 DAVID:
sure and
tell them
we're
coming then,
all
HENRY:
now listen,
listen to
tell you.
in exactly to be
I don't know if
the same place as The only
this van
the other reason
van. It's
real close.
that is
Right. Right.
-- like it was before.
But, but
o r,
may
be 20
feet back
or
5 feet
where they
parked before.
whoever it is tha
didn't park in ex
DAVID :
same place.
Nothings --
HENRY:
-- going
re.
to happen
other than
what
has happened
befo
communication, right?
Okay. Like
I say,
ready and
-HENRY: Right.
19
DAVID: Are
they down
there now?
yet.
fine.
Okay?
Okay.
Okay. Now
I need to --
going to
send
the kids.
HENRY DAVID up. HENRY: DAVID
Okay.
the equipment
set
Okay.
a little
orange
have? I
92
I 92
20
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: You know, and then, you know, the
pain and
all of
a sudden
Iget
where it'slike
something's developing in my chest. It's like -don't know. It's, it's kind of
cold it's -HENRY: Like an infection?
like a
-- it's not a
DAVID:
Idon't know if
it's an infection or
-- it's
kind of
like you
you're fixing
to get
HENRY: YES.
f k
sure --
DAVID: Something
like that.
HENRY: Well,
are you
sure you,
are you
DAVID: You
HENRY: Are
know, you
you sure
go up
and down.
to
you don'twant us
send you
some medical
DAVID: No, HENRY: Okay.
help?
not yet. Let's, let's --
DAVID: --
we're on a good --
road right
now.
trying to
work
OO
21
DAVID: You
know, I
was trying
to get
a trust
in him to see if he
out.
let me get
these kids out, you know, the way I wanted to get them
*HENRY : Okay .
DAVID: And
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: And
to me:
HENRY: --
we want
to, we
want to
continue in
in such
that there
DAVID: We
found out
what it
was.
92
Well, we us. We
know, trust
your trusting
DAVID: Groaning. !
HENRY: We want to continue working
A
in this
fashion. I
would like, I would for, you know, [gap] I you to start working on that, that tape,
with you, and I want you to work with
would.like for
and I will work
me.
DAVID: Okie
doke. Okay.
the
downthere in just
second, all
right? HENRY:
DAVID: Okie
Okay.
doke?
HENRY: Um-hum.
[gap]
iii-
SPEAKER:
-and
I'm
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
HENRY: Hello?
SPEAKER Hello
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER Yeah
HENRY: This
Steve
Hi, Steve.
Yes.
Steve?
Henry. Henry.
23
HENRY:
STEVE: HENRY:
How are
you doing?
side. Little bit --
STEVE:
_ -
HENRY:
bring up.
David
mentioned that
he was going to
try to
do that audiotape. Is
STEVE :
he working on that?
I just about 2
Oh, he
Yeah.
did?
Okay. So are mean have it or -you working you checked on that? or found Or I out
or I
anything about
HENRY :
Well, he
said he
was going
to try
to,
some equipment
Okay. Yeah,
-- the
recording studio.
I see
something is
here right
now.
Okay. Is,
is he -- I
really have
great
24
pain and
earlier.
agony, you
him
STEVE: Uh-huh.
HENRY: And,
but, you
know, part
of the
problem is
like he
said every
time that
he coughs or
that that he
feels that
he
again.
said that?
if he is feeling
-if
see,
since he suffered
him some medical
that wound,
help.
get
STEVE: Well
telling me I guess
HENRY: Yes
[gap] for,
they're
-- hello?
[gap].
STEVE: [gap]
Oh, something
-I
don't know
STEVE: Is that at your end or -HENRY: No, it's probably at your STEVE: Well,
phone here.
end. the
now.
1 I
25 I 92
Okay.
It sounds
actually better.
--
it kind
of cleared
up or something here.
HENRY: Um-hum.
STEVE: Okay.
Okay, you
were, you
were
saying, yeah.
Oh, I
tell you
just so here.
worn
hard time
two -
or the
lady that
is almost out of
HENRY: So
she said
or she
asked if
we could
the next,
guess I
just too
I was out
starting to
I was -- let
92
O
26 HENRY: STEVE: Yes.
doing
the tape
thing
HENRY:
a matter
of fact, --
I mean .
we,
we encountered
STEVE HENRY:
difficulty
but, but
Yeah.
What we're
about this Uh-huh. --
trying
to do is
because he
is most
serious
STEVE HENRY:
-- we're trying
to react
in exactly
the same
fashion
STEVE: HENRY: Yeah.
out is
we're trying to
Christian Broadc
STEVE: Network? HENRY:
The National
Christian Broadcasting
has several
thousand radio
stations through
STEVE: HENRY:
country.
is based in
Phoenix,
Arizona.
STEVE: HENRY:
In Phoenix,
Arizona.
But, you
know, their
headquarters.
But when
we call
so
27
them out
of bed
or wherever
they're at --
STEVE: Uhhuh.
HENRY: --
so that
we can
initiate this.
STEVE: I
see. So
was he
wanting to
do that
yet tonight
or -HENRY: Well,
Y
he wanted
for us.
to --
he was going to
record the,
the cassette
STEVE: Uh-huh.
HENRY: And
STEVE: Yeah.
then he
assured me.
I told
him I
to hold but at
his word,
times -
but he
assured me
STEVE: Uh-huh
that,
that once
we did that,
' you be careful of the
STEVE: I
cord there?
Ithink
problem is.
this -
the cord
in the
phone
Careful
STEVE: Okay.
Okay. Let
me see.
And then
see they
O
brought a couple of the things.
HENRY: Okay.
Steve. And the -STEVE: Yeah.
I
28
a concern,
HENRY: --
concern that
I have,
you know,
is
Okay,
there's
I
HENRY: Okay.
just to
regain, regain
at least
That's --
STEVE: And
then she
said she
wants there
of attention
something, or
help out there.
HENRY: Okay.
provide that, but --
Okay. And
we are ready to
swsvs = HENRY: --
92
29
out of
HENRY: Okay?
And I
want you
to be
thinking
you
Isee.
HENRY: And,
and, you
know, I
know there's an
lot of
children.
and us, this
between you
and me,
we need to try
--
to coordinate
we can
effect what
STEVE: Right.
HENRY: -David and Iinitiated and that is
STEVE: Okay.
can you
HENRY:
Is there
an hour?
any way
then --
can,
call me
back in
Sure.
STEVE: Oh,
that would
be great.
Because I
if, if that
sleep or
the phone rings, I'm just going Ihear it just so Idon't fall off
something.
HENRY: Okay.
30 STEVE: HENRY :
Okay.
Now let
me just
ask you
this. Can
we
get a couple
of kids
so that
car that,
that that
lady
Well, she
said he
never --
he passed
were to be do right
HOW .
wait for
1 hour? --
Okay. Does
And then,
and call
to have
say well,
Okay.
I tell
I went
you what.
through the
at all. I
mean I'm,
I'm so tired.
whole night.
laid down
And I,
to sleep
be exhausted.
Okay.
Henry, thanks much.
Okay. I
I, I
tell. And
there. I,
I can
Umhum. O So I'm going to And please Okay. One Okay. Did you I -need a phone cord? me back, I think he call me conk out back. here for
other thing.
yeah. When
you call we --
I'll mention
that again.
he?
I guess
said
that, didn't
HENRY:
Yeah, but
wants.
kind of
cord
it is
that he
STEVE:
to be
honest
with
you. HENRY:
Okay. Okay.
Well, check
on those
things.
STEVE: HENRY: back
Okay.
You know, in about an hour I'll be
to you.
STEVE: HENRY: STEVE: HENRY:
Hello?
Hello?
Hello?
32
HENRY: This
is Henry.
Who's this?
Steve. Steve.
Who
talki
This is
:I'msorry. I
you.
RACHEL: Oh,
it's Rachel.
okay. Looks
like
him?
it?
nurse is
RACHEL: I
don't know.
HENRY: Are
RACHEL: NO.
you a
nurse?
'|
33
1 HENRY:
2 in there?
Okay. Is
there more
than one
nurse
3_ RACHEL:
4 know who, which
I think
one is which.
I don't
5;
A HENRY:
Uh-huh. Well,
you know,
we have
8 RACHEL:
9 HENRY:
10 RACHEL:
Looks like
Oh, okay.
Here.
11 [gap]
12 DAVID:
13 HENRY:
This Harry?
David?
20 DAVID:
21 question. But, oh,
22 okay.
23 HENRY:
24 them?
All right.
yet?
talk to
want to
25 DAVID:
Yeah. See.
34
get Rachel,
Larry and
RACHEL: DAVID: HENRY :
--- asleep.
Course, little
Um-hum. We
you're goingto be
DAVID: rest -HENRY: DAVID: HENRY:
Yeah.
-- to
get my
Okay. Okay.
Do you
--
Idon't
know if
Steve had
a chance
to, to
talk to
you. But
out. And
serious about
Oh,
And what
we'd like to do
is we
are
trying to
to contact
not present
this to
fact as
National Christian
DAVID: HENRY: DAVID:
92
35
they
here
locally?
A HENRY:
Iknow
that they
thou yo
DAVID:
throughout the
The station
everybody's listening to
right now
is KRLD , right?
HENRY: DAVID: HENRY:
Yeah. But
Iknow --
you something
number one
that's religious.
DAVID: HENRY:
.DAVID: HENRY:
Number two
exposure.
DAVID:
Okay.
HENRY:
that one
you are
of, one
very seri
ous, okay.
are calling
Okay? So
Ithought
it
would be
--
No, okay.
Ijust
-I
got what
36
--
HENRY: Okay.
that, you
Because it's
So we want to
have something
pleased with.
know, that
considered a
you're going to be
serious
Okay? So
we --
mean, we
called this
in Arizona,
what we did
and we
is we
as we
charge of
the people
that are
in
It's not
a 24-hour
radio
station?
that. I'm
Well, I'm
not
sure about
sure that
it is.
DAVID: HENRY:
What, what
-that it is.
But, but
head people,
the people
that we
were trying
So -Yeah.
to contact, the
weren't around.
DAVID: HENRY:
Oh,
Isee.
-- so
they, they
sent people
out to
the home.
Okay?
DAVID: HENRY:
Right.
talking to
was a little
bit confused
DAVID:
put something
92
0 @ 37
show the
and what,
difference between
in, in difference to
the way
I perceive
what we've
heard the
seals being
presented thus
far by
leaders that
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: So
that way
people will
be able
to
honestly
listen and
Bibles
as they're
listening and
HENRY: Exactly.
r 92
frdm
their own
Bible. And
then like
HENRY: Okay.
Isay,
hands.
that I
One of
have, okay,
is I'm talking to
some people,
some medical
people. And
And what
what -I
I'm hearing is
You
when Icough
Now do you, do
right?
here next to
/ 92
the belly.
And it,
it hit
me in the, the
pelvic, and
38
then it
somehow
traced around
of
towards my
back
HENRY DAVID:
There was
Whispering.
-- that was
! My
bigger than
the front.
HENRY: Yeah.
DAVID: And
Well, see
then the --
--
told
is that
clots, okay,
been -this
it creates
is a
long time
occurred. We
can get
having a lot going into
you start
DAVID: Well,
hit I thought. HENRY: Okay.
the kids out to you I'm going to send that tape with them. And you'll just have to -- this will play, this
will play tomorrow sometimes, right? -
HENRY: Well, we can play it whenever you want. If you want we can play it now. Or we can, we
1
39
r can go ~-
, u.
DAVID
:Well
- -
you know,
we can
play it
tomorrow. a
Now, you
know, if
you have
problem,rif you
have --
or if
the
National Christian
KRLD. I
whomever you want.
go to
with
DAVID: Well,
if it's a
pick it
than
up,
92_
DAVID: And
KRLD will
probably more
wondering what's
happened to me
Well,
HENRY: Okay.
things for
me?
eight kids
understand
to
DAVID: And
more as
92
40
That's Lahara, Renee, Angelica, Crystal, Camaray phonetic sp.!, Landon, Jake, let's see, my eyes are
kind of blurry.
SHERRY: Ryan.
DAVID: Ryan,
yeah.
DAVID: ~-
closer to,
to me.
Just read it
Unidentified voices
in
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: Angelica.
DAVID: Go
Angelica.
ahead.
. 92
SPEAKER:
Landon.
DAVID: Yeah.
HENRY: Jake.
The next
one
'
s Jake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
SPEAKER:
Ryan.
DAVID: Ryan.
HENRY: Brian.
f 92
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: Joshua. HENRY: Joshua.
SPEAKER:
Joshua.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: Jamie. HENRY: Jamie.
SPEAKER:
Jamie.
SPEAKER: ones
And --
The other
-~ all
the
0118 S
that are
side
marked off.
Unidentified female
voice in
Yeah. Keep
voices in
background not
discernible.! Let
list. Groaning.!
here are listed twice?
Okay. Oh.
are you
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER:
Yeah.
DAVID: No,
are the
first ones
names over
we listed
No you
Chrissy.
Brian. Brian. Scott. Scott.
Jake.
Jake.
And you
un
already got
Joshua and
Jamie.
So that's --
identified female
voice in background
HENRY: I,
Ithink
Ithink
43
1 you
2
said 1
6. but
I think
we have
14.
DAVID: Oh,
correct here
I may long
3 be 4~ list
5 I 6 7
ed on them.
and ~-
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: -
little by
; little
right. So
start
groaning!
-where's,
--
6 all
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
They still
-- where's Steve?
- this
guy will
This is
okay. Hold
1e get
19 20 21 22
LORRAINE: Okay.
Thank you.
23 Let
24 25
the -
lsapl
.1
44 I 92
HENRY: He's
on just a
second.
coming right
up, Lorraine.
Hold
LORRAINE: Okay.
HENRY: Whispering.!
JOSHUA: Hi.
Say hi.
LORRAINE: Hi,
JOSHUA: Yeah.
honey. You
doing okay?
You be
a good
soldier, all
LORRAINE: Okay.
JOSHUA: Okay. LORRAINE:
/' k
I love
you, honey.
Okay, sweetheart.
JOSHUA: Bye.
LORRAINE:
K
Bye. Yeah,
Unidentified male
discernible.!
voice
in background
JOSHUA: What?
already
you tell
them no
JOSHUA: Uh-huh.
Be a good boy,
you. Wait,
hang on
45
a sec.
Huh? Hey,
rest of
the kids?
play with
JOSHUA: No.
LORRAINE: No?Oh, maybe you will. What, what about the other kids that left? You didn't see
them?
JOSHUA: Uh-uh.
no?
JOSHUA: Bye.
HENRY: Oh,
okay.
female
QO
46
f k.
to work
out if,
if we
can is
we have
-- when
we made
ladies that
the
their car
gasoline, and
they wondered if we
them some
Q
DAVID: Wait
a second.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Said
out of gasoline? Oh,
something about
it is?
their car
being
in
Unidentified voices
that, that
little car,
--
a long
ways just
on a -- well, we
what --
the girl,
Mary.
close to
female voice in
background not
of gasoline.
We gota
DAVID =_ Oh.
Q
DAVID: Okay.
appreciate that.
I
47
All right.
Thanks. I
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Oh,
we --
--
what wehad to do
them across
the building
hadsent some money to Jim, and I'd asked him, you know, to,you know, take care of the kids with that.
But --
HENRY: Um-hum.
he could
if he could just like have someone pick up, you know, half, you know, nothing real fancy, just a straight phone from Radio Shack or something with approximately
150 feet or so of, of telephone cable.
92.
48
1 have
a note here
to get,
to get
a telephone was.
cord. I
exactly that
Yeah.
4 HENRY:
5: you needt-
need-
You.
6 DAVID:
Yeah.
Not the,
the kind
that twist
7 around 8 you
9 we
10 .many
straight stuff,
know. I
can get
of it.
connections we
-- that's
13b DAVID:
14 HENRY:
15 probably get that
Yes, sir.
Okay. Let
as soon
me work on that.
as, as --
I'll
16 DAVID:
They've got it at
Radio Shack.
When I he's he --
might be wise
1
to --
92 I
49
92
92
working towards
preparing Steve
to take over
some of
the responsibility?
responsibility on
A DAVID:
you're getting
I said
look, Jim,
I teach
my meet me I
learn the
the very
first day
that they
want to
I say
hey, look,
do you
is at
first,
them. So
them look,
Christ
92
_ 32
do not to
come out
a land
likened to
and honey.
for forgiveness.
God and all
are no gods.
true
idols
the birth
and there's no
that
and smote
is coming
for
HENRY: Um-hum.
It certainly
has.
the question
is is
92
92
33
1 the
2
coming of Christ in
would come in glory
glory?
the second
6 Jesus 7 to 8 dwell
Christ. We in the
explain
the Christian
church that
heavenly sanctuary,
9 man of this
10 pollute
it, they
ll revolves
12
word, the
seven seals.
And, you
God, unless
15 16
know, like
his word Um-hum.
I say,
--
unless we
fear
we fear
HENRY:
know, the
appearance of
who really
believed that
21 HENRY:
That's right.
M. KORESH: And why did he have to die? He
says father, I pleadeth that thy remove this cup from me. But if it be not removed except I drink it, not my 25 will but they will be done. Taken from Psalm60, where
Q
34
92
-- past
Orion in
heaven in
the northern
part of
the
universe, the
above all
father has
It says
in Psalm
here
HENRY: Are
they
okay?
background not discernible.! Yeah, can yougive them some bottle or some, some breast or something?
Unidentified female voice in background not discernible.! Please? Yeah, she wants some milk.
Okay. Anyway,
friend.
HENRY: Physically?
92
35
MR. KORESH:
In Psalms
-I
don't know,
it's
like this.
Christ says
HENRY: Um-hum.
he has
the key
of David,
right?
p MR.
M. KORESH:
prophecy of
Isaiah 22,
for God
promises to
overthrow the
ungodly of
his land.
ungodly and
the
in that
Eliakim, which
raise up Eliakim. It
his shoulder none shall And it says the key shut, and they shall
lay upon
unless you
is, you
shall lay
But it
issue.
says you
and the
That's children,
Q
36
a crown,
M. KORESH:
conquer, right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
and to
Unidentified male
voice in
background not
not possible.
We made an agreement.
No, they'reon the roof with
M. KORESH
ropes. HENRY: NO MR. KORESH
They're right up
there.
HENRY: We
can't -so
Nobody can
a 1
be there.
MR. KORESH:
I feel
37 r
sorry for
you guys.
HENRY: What
_
we want, what we'rehoping to
do --
I know
what you
want, but
you
Look at
kind of
how much
- Look,
--
did Jim
slander? Look
We certainly
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: Okay. MR. KORESH:
the one church
r 92
Listen, let
me explain
again.
Okay, look,
in Psalms
45, God's
speaking. And
-- See,
There is
my
the world
is bad.
honest. The
temple
of God
must be
in you
and it
must be
in truth.
Spirit
you'll
isn't i
and in
truth, okay?
see God on a
t? When
you read
things, you
don't reallysee
it,
you just
see it
HENRY: Umhum.
in your mind,
don't you?
mind must
be renewed
God, correct?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: scripture as
/ 92
_
use to see his mind.
a means
HENRY: Um-hum.
for men
O *5
38
it
says
-- See,
the
right,
first seal
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: So then I show
A
you Psalms 45.
It
says my
heart is which I
HENRY:
indicting
a good
speak know
of things
Christ.
MR. KORESH: It
a ready writer.
HENRY: Uh-huh .
says my tongue
is the
pen of
speak?
HENRY: Um-hum.
thou
of men. So
that's his
HENRY: Yes.
39 I 92
seals,
right?
testimony will
learn the
prophets and
all the
books
pertaining to
these seals
--
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
salvation.
HENRY: Um-hum. r K
-- unmerited
favor for
MR. KORESH=
So, therefore,
have God
blessed
thee forever.
gird thy
does the
ride?
white horse?
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: Um-hum.
He rides
the white
horse.
MR. KORESH:
now, right?
So they're on the
roof for
sure
Nobody
made,
40
MR. KORESH=
Well, why,
why are
people
y
roof. There
M. KORESH=
then, so
picture of 45, it
think, okay?
and majesty,
says with
because of
prosperously? The
seven seals,
MR. KORESH:
Okay. Meekness
and
righteousness, it
says thy
right hand
shall teach
thee
terrible things.
book.
gave me this
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH:
The father
gave me
the book
and
resist, resist
against the
will of
God,
of God.
HENRY: Um-hum. '
it says
thy
the heart
king's enemies. I
Q O
92 41
a bow in the
he?
the people
fall
under thee.
O God is forever
and
scepter. Thy
HENRY: Yes.
on to talk
says upon
of Ophir.
my right hand is
us.
promise you
made
agreementthat we
M. KORESH:
Go up and see.
there's going to be nobody there. There's going to he nobody there. Ican promise you that. Like, you know,
; ~
just like
nct your
enemies. We're
not.
you -
92 s
92 '92
U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF THE
TREASURY
BUREAU OF
ALCOHOL, TOBACCO
& FIREARMS
92 92
TAPE #102
3/1/93
that's fine
1'
and I
have no
M. KORESH: Okay. y
HENRY: But I have
there all day.
staying
when I
say I
have a problem,
is why,
this is
why you
agreed to
play this
you really
to do with anything.
do something, know, I, I have
If I
told you
that I
was going to
do. You and
doing, you
know, this
whatever, you
MR. KORESH:
all.
I told
these people
to trust
you
' HENRY:
And, you
know, and
likewise I've
been
trusting you,
to
I mean,
hostages here.
I understand.
MR. KORESH:
I mean,
the children,
that's too
kind of
young to
like
a hostage
cause, like
decisions.
say, they're
make their
HENRY:
Um-hum.
xonssm And
that, like
just because
because I
involved in
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH:
You know?
And
trying to,
to
middle of and as
it as
fair for
us, my
Just
actually, on
me first.
make it
where
like your, you first. coming from you say, radio and
saying you
fair for
we're
Like
you know,
the
everyone on
all are
going to
storm us,
sent, you
You know,
this is
I'm
MR. KORESH:
dealt with,
just
92
like I
with, you
see? And
A
it's a
different situation,
HENRY: Well
but still
--
there listening
well, the
happen and,
fog is
a good
going to
and
many vehicles
know --
Well, you're
now, wait
boys saying
No, they're,
and
press
we are or
are not
doing, you
way or
anything one
MR. KORESH: All right. HENRY: That's why the correct story, because we're just
MR. KORESH: HENRY: -But the not talking
The press,
back because,
92
OO
S
_ HENRY:
saying last
o'clock, and I
told you we weren't, and we haven't.And even when you thought that somebody was on the roof, I
we were not.
MR. KORESH;
favor, I
HENRY: Okay.
So, you
know, I
would like
for
you, you
to sell
know, in
all of
order for
me to,
to, to
I need
be able
a little
to,
bit
this to
my bosses,
of help
from you.
Now, what I
can do,
or what
I'd like
to do is let
this agree
national
M. KORESH:
HENRY: Okay.
national.
HENRY:Okay
MR. KORESH:
.
You know.
V 1
HENRY: All
of them?
of them
yet. Like
you go
national, then
HENRY:
Okay. Let's
do this.
we
And that's
fine, but,
but
one thing.
out the and two
Supposing we do
two kids women. How to -~ with
the give me
about
MR. KORESH:
See, there
we're --
HENRY: Well,
sell this because --
Look, look,
here together.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH= It's thetruth I'msending in that tape. Now, these women, if they were to come out
So, you
to barter the
effects of all fail to
someone else's
/
decision to
deal with
what we
have
believed in,
because you
understand what
Constitution --
in written
--
form,
constitutional
freedom for
that we of
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
Okay? Now,
we do condone a
Bible religion,
interpretation. So
wrong and therefore making their religion if that religion hurts others, if
binds others, is our then definitely the public
it confines
the public,
and present it to
judicial system,
realistically, can
decide that
this is
means, what
92
that religion
is a
false religion,
for sure.
HENRY: Um-hum.
I agree
with you
on
all of these
abuse thing.
that out.
you'll find
told point-blank
that
Ihad
to
and, as
Sheriff
be careful,
there.
there are
some dangerous
customers out
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: Now, that's when I had to and think now, what does he know that I
stop
don't know? I
yet.
and also
in methamphetamine.
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH:
did
not -Well,
bridge.
like Isay,
this is
a lot
of water
under a
HENRY: Right.
92 9
MR. KORESH:
But
it did
make me
look bad.
MR. KORESH:
Everything we
bought was
with
yellow sheet.
things were There were
Everything. You'll
bought locally basic Rugers, and also you know,
find that
in from and stuff,
those
Palestine. which at
that time
know.
was considered,
you know,
a rodent
gun, you
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
Of course,
we know
that the
5.56
is also
a military,
too. "
is that
it gets
blown out
HENRY: Right.
is,
I, I is
what your
concern is,
concern
attack you,
okay? And
MR. KORESH:
comes down to this.
Well, if
you attack
us, it
just
HENRY: Okay,
but
we're not
-- We
have no
O
10 r s
intentions of
to this,
doing that.
I know, but it just comes down
MR. KORESH:
though. You
HENRY: Okay.
end up killing
And our
us.
that,
concern is
that --
had it.
us.
You'll --
There's no,
there's no media
HENRY: Well,
MR. KORESH:
we don't -You I
ll say
that we
attacked you
and this,
that.
HENRY: No. Our
concern is
you might look, if
going to
f-. 92.
come out
and that
Oh,
it already.
Now, let
me
explain something.
HENRY: Well ~-
MR. KORESH=
We were
accused three
times this
last year
of going
to commit
suicide. Three
times.
The authorities
phonetic sp.!
MARTBRO
we've been
in the
be able
front, fixing
to present
this place up
it true to all
from a
those
this place
v F
f
were people
92..
OD
11
truth, we
could not
sit with
idle expectation
and think
to be
able to,
to have
this
we've enjoyed.
We've never gone outside our boundaries.
legal. You
know, but anything
know, always
the thing of it to we need
take it it to
to take
the law
testimony of
commanded by
God's scripture.
scripture to abide
Now, otherwise,
by the
those
laws of
laws don't
the land
in every
degree,
as long
the law
as
of
100 percent
conflict with
God.
In Nebuchadnezzar's day, when
_
Nebuchadnezzar
dream, you
know, Daniel
and them
were subject
Babylonian kingdom,
Chaldea, didn't make that
Nebuchadnezzar to
image and
he commanded
people to
bow to
it
-i
h um.
HENRY: Um-
MR. KORESH:
-you
know, indiscernible!
we
acid test
they?
fire, didn't
HENRY: Um-hum.
92
92
12
MR. KORESH:
did. Now,
But who
protected them?
now.
Not a real
God
fire.
And, like
nation and
I say,
that it,
we believe that
like Assyria of Jonah
this, this
America is
or Nineva
can have
a great
of old,
a chance
can
to
hear theemessage
say hey, you know,
and it
--
what this
guy's
teaching out
of the
book is
straight out
of the
Bible,
there's beena
HENRY: Well,
we can
go back
and
clarify our
agreement so
that you
.
feel comfortable
--
and everybody
feels comfortable.
And what
we need
it comes
to -you
down to is
need to
real trust,
have trust in us
you know,
and
and we need
to have
the children
trust in
or two
you. Can
children
you give
and
me either
all of
And, you
two women?
give what
I said.
give you
the
to national
Let me,
thereafter.
about this
HENRY: You
know, if
we don't do what
we say
give ~-
MR. KORESH:
No, no.
HENRY:
-in
the eyes
of everybody?
92
will
will look
awful.
A MR.
KORESH: Oh,
Henry --
HENRY: Um-hum.
-- how
many times
has the
have not
-I
have been
straight
with you,
with --
in everything
that we've talked with you all the way. I from the you gasoline
about. I've been straight told you place, and when you we would we have.
all the
both know
MR. KORESH:
But this
is our
case, this
is
our case.
me --
M. KORESH:
HENRY: --
Okay.
and, and --
me
92
14
suicide. i
M. KORESH: HENRY: And Okay. we want to get you out of there
as soon
as possible
because, you
know, your
blood know,
you, you
should be
sweating a little
MR. KORESH:
bit, and
Well, how
you're not.y
it in this
cold is
room?
HENRY: I
you've hadthat injury
attention.
MR. KORESH:
understand that,
for some time
but your
now. You
injury -need
Yeah.
HENRY:
You know,
there for
a while
you
said
your mind
feel that
was going
you~have
blank, you
a shortness
know. Periodically,
of breath. Those are
medical
thing to drag
I don't want
you. So
me a chance
MR. KORESH:
me a chance to
-- that's what we
15 I 92
out. Now
M. KORESH:
thing on national.
You said
that we
would play
this
that's exact
--
M. KORESH:
And I
told you
-we're going to
M. KORESH;
And then
we would,
you know,
all
I told
you, Isaid
well, look,
I'll go
two
you out
then you
send everybody
know, now
out. You
so, you
Now,
what's happening.
that Jim's
you're doing
the same
thing that,
You're saying your bosses, mean, I mean, this you know. got a lot is not Burger King
your bosses.
HENRY: Well,
Idon't have all
Idon't have as
I still have
much, you
bosses.
know,
the power.
92
16
the real
lot
to do I've pushed
so.
things that
that. But
you've wanted,
I need a little
bit of
help from
this tape
is being dragged
out now,
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: - let me -I'll have to, I'll
get
some of
HENRY: How
working on it?
about
still
MR. KORESH:
OD.
Well, that's
not
what we agreed
I'm not,
I'm just
asking
like I
these children?
Now, that's
going to
take some
HENRY:
work on
Okay.
my part.
0I
17
I say,
that unless
this country observes and sees, then they know pointblank what's going to happen according to the
out
law
we have an opportunity
what did Nicodemus say?
to state
He says
our cause.
did our
law, which
is law
serve your
laws where
they coincide
'
And America
does. Above
all of
the nations.
It does.
You know,
it's theclosest to
basic principles
scriptures of
you know,
truth
MR. KORESH:
See, now,
have to
forgive people
based on their
ignorance.
V HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Now, the next law, which let's
92
18
say the
right?
MR..KORESH: So
the 11th
commandment is
forgive
we have
man that,
that does
err,
they're doing.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH:
S0 then
the 12th
law will
be
into they
hand I
commit my
spirit, which
means, like
Isaiah 51
seek after to the
on that
says hearken
who seek You know,
he?
to me,
you who
righteousness, you
rock indiscernible!
throne, isn't
HENRY: Um-hum.
says behold
my people,
give ear
from me
to the
people. And
judgment,
seal.
Christ coming,
the seventh
HENRY: Um-hum.
you
seals are
in the Bible,
you
judge me.
your
law. And
respect
that. See,
out and
be
19
MR. KORESH:
HENRY:
Okay.
A M. KORESH:
speak my law.
But if
you allow
me to
first
And I
have no
allowing to the
about 15
minutes
and, and
M. KORESH:
HENRY: Okay?
Oh, okay,
right.
Okay.
right. in a
Okay.
going to
have to
do
92
20
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH:
little bit HENRY
you in
you. Bye-bye.
RITA: HENRY: RITA: HENRY RITA: David? HENRY RITA: HENRY RITA:
This is
Okay, Henry,
Yes. Who
is this?
Rita.
MR. KORESH=
plug again.
HENRY: What?
M. KORESH:
again. HENRY: Oh, MR. KORESH: the ear pl
ug.
I said
I had
the ear
plug in
0
92
21
MR. KORESH:
this tape.
younger girls,
you know,
explained to
know, the
MR. KORESH: And I cause, you rooms, and know, they talked to -- the them, but
to them
again,
I explained
said, you
believe
message. We
we
we're doing.
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH:
So, I
says, you
know, I've
talked to the
to, you ourselves, you
ourselves already,
HENRY: You
I mean,
come on.
off the
-
track.
some of
92
O
' 22
92
here, too.
HENRY:Okay MR. KORESH: . And I told them, I said, look, I
older ladies
says, you
know, you
all, you
know, you
all --
Cause
all are
involved in
message and
anything, you
believe the
all believe
says, but,
truth is
what we all
HENRY: Okay.
can probably
also
people the
MR. KORESH:
And so,
you know,
I've, I've
been talking
you know,
to them.
I said,
you can
either witness
listen to
us, or if
you had a to
to be
on the
outside, you
could witness
MR. XORESH:
You know,
cause people
are
going to want to know why we've done these crazy things. Now,
of baloney.
next thing
But I
a bunch
that
the ones
are supposed to be
0 92-
23
can do there
know,
a greater
witness for
God,
being out
cause, you
to show
a dead
them that
Christian is
you do want
a dead
a HENRY:
MR. KORESH:
Right.
A live Christian is a witness.
HENRY: Um-hum.
so I
explained
you know,
that --
if you
thing of punished. ~We
you know,
opportunity to
see his
the light of
MR. KORESH:
You
know? And
so that's the
whole thing. good relationship began to explain excellent listener not trying ragging our
Armegeddon and
So this, on the
this is
had a
you know, I is an
things to
realize that
we're
to be
idiots, you
head off,
stuff.
HENRY: Um-hum.
is -- the h
'
when God
/ K
resurrects all the people that have ever lived and they
92
92
.'
24
trying to
it
know, whether,
HENRY: Okay.
a bit
So it
appears to be,
like I
say, I
for God,
right?
for our
HENRY: Um-hum.
for our
belief
in God.
M. KORESH:
you
know, this
is to,
92
is the
be able
whole reason
for the
truth, anyway,
is to
HENRY: Okay.
can decide
better,
we're alive.
92
25
HENRY: Right
no good.
I agree
That sounds
real good.
MR. KORESH:
Okay? Now,
that's -- Now,
--
H HENRY: I understand.
MR. KORESH: -- simply because, you know --
point-blank you
but still them on
all may
is in
not, you
God.
you get
and all
that and
don't your do end of the bargain -HENRY: No, we will. But, you know, that,
rolling and
we'll
Okay.
Well,
I'll --
MR. KORESH:
I'll tell
them that.
HENRY: Okay.
want to,
Now, what
as soon
Iwant
as Ican.
to do
is
I _
the
to get
your tape
One of
things that
in terms
of radio,
okay?
- 26 92 I 92
it for
me
I M.
keep making it.
KORESH: Well,
if
I, if
I get
a chance to
HENRY: Okay.
time, I
thought, was
the time the people are driving home, when they get
home in the evening.
HENRY: Well --
is, is
when everybody
mean, that's when
is going
everybody really
Ask, ask the producersand they'll tell you said, you'll be playing
play Dallas and then. one first, right?
we hope to go to national
right away.
'cause I'm sure,
HENRY: Exactly.
f '92.
you know,
27
then that
way,
and Arizona
will be
from 11 to 1 or something,
HENRY: Um~hum. But --
right?
l MR.
KORESH: Okay,
that's good.
to go on this
11 o'clock.
right
away.
tape
with the
tape, the
early as
possible.
we do that,
HENRY: Yes.
And as
soon as
we'll go national.
All right. And the national
M. KORESH:
'92
will be
11 o'clock,right?
as -
right
how can
that be
then? I
lot p
this general
we're going
radio --
it around
11 or
12 then?
28
know --
then, around
time. Do
Well, you
HENRY: Well, I
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: Okay.
no problem.
I can to receive
M. KORESH:
national
you some
radio station
medical attention.
or whatever,
so that I
like
can get
I say,
I could
more than,
I could
12
MR. KORESH:Like I
come all out.
HENRY: Okay,
well, that's
to --
finished and,
V 92
29
like I
I ..-
MR. KORESH:
hurry upand get it
You know,
done.
I need
to get
it --
HENRY: Okay.
And, and
women for
you and
Okay?
fine.
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: We're
Are we,
in tune.
are we
in tune?
M. KORESH:
HENRY: Thank MR. KORESH: to you later, okay?
Okay, thanks,
you. God bless
Henry.
you now.
We'll talk
HENRY: Okay,
later.
me around -Well,
after six.
give me a few
Already? Okay,
out, okay?
in a little
MR. KORESH:
Okay, bye.
Tape 10B.!
U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF THE
TREASURY
92 92
TAPE #1lA
03/02/93
92
DAVID: --
cut our
lines off
so I
can't talk
to the
radio programs.
not communicating
you all cut all
with them.
our lines
reason being
is
HENRY: Did,
that?
did --
was somebody
working on
Jim said
so. But
you know,
we
to be
resolved in
fine.
everybody
else to you have to -Wait
comes out
of this
get hurt.
That's number
a message,
we certainly
DAVID: Okay.
a second.
SPEAKER: Someone's
in
is
DAVID: Okay,
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER: David
--
on the
roof?
w 92
DAVID: Wait
guys. HENRY:
a minute.
It may
be one
of our
" UNIDENTIFIED
the tower
sentinels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
HENRY:
Itfs, it's
got to
be one
of yours.
are not
moving in.
Nobody is. in is --
The
Wait a
HENRY: DAVID:
is to
pick up
discernible.! What?
not discernible.!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
SPEAKER: Tell
him
--
were just
name,
Harry?
HENRY: DAVID: HENRY: DAVID:
Henry.
Okay. Now
I asked,
I asked present
Jim, I -I mean,
said Jim,
listen.
If they'll let me
92
Q
.~
C
4
you know,
how much
this is
you respect
our lives.
our lives.
You know,
this depends
if a man
on
had
You know,
a --
give me
to
or two I know
seals on
know everything
I'm, I'm aware of
HENRY: Um-hum.
costs money,
that.
and
DAVID: And
dollars,
you know.
0 92_
trying to
get the
message out.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: If
know, the seals the way
you'd justlet me
I see them.
present, you
know, then
we can
to where
come out.
HENRY: Okay.
I will
work on
exactly that.
And I'm
can
totally
;1
arrange to
out. .
have
you do
that that
everybody will
come
DAVID
:What
I'm saying is is
this. I'm
saying
that once
this if
you
don't, you
individuals, if
right, where me from
the points
off and
the side
questions that
make then
do not
I'm trying to
HENRY DAVID HENRY
you're -- and
= Is
:--
if I
can make
what I
arrangements to
will do is I
have
you talk
to the
radio and
will work
on, on
what. We
have you
will
talking to,
-- what
to a
radio --
getting you
something totally
and completely
different
a fashion
out to a
lot of
willing to
radio stations.
make a tape?
' DAVID
:A
I give
it
live. I
make a tape.
hear it.
Because, you
HENRY:
Okay.
DAVID: Make
nationwide or
HENRY outside? DAVID HENRY DAVID HENRY DAVID HENRY I'm -DAVID that. HENRY DAVID HENRY
know,
whatever.
Okay. Could
you come
out and
do that
I can't We'll --
move.
I can
do it
on the
phone -out.
you want
to do
it.
No, see,
there again
we can'tdo
asking --
-- if
you wanted
to do
it that
way.
If you
don't, okay.
DAVID HENRY DAVID HENRY DAVID HENRY: DAVID HENRY
On the
telephone.
telephone.
Okay, then
Okay.
get back
with me.
Okay?
f 92
DAVID: Because
by --
I indiscernible!
I'm losing
HENRY: Okay.
Let me
just ask
you something.
out. Are
you
a couple
DAVID: Well,
on this
now.
like I
I said
Jim,
working
did he
do now?
he's, youknow, he'sbeen
forever. We'regoing to
of a break. You understand
DAVID: Yeah.
I 92
have to
that?
give him
a little
bit
to let
me, let
consider
of things to
you. You
HENRY: One
I want
to
propose is
if we make a tape
with crazy
that.
recording, one
of the
things that we
interrupt you
anything like
DAVID: Okay.
then maybe
/ 92-
have, do
you have a
video?
we have
that, and
start working
DAVID: Okay.
something. HENRY: Okay. DAVID: That
I'm coming from.
All right,
then we'lldo
HENRY: I'mgoing to
time so that Ican, so that
need
I can
a little
bit of
this. In the
work on
meantime, can
we get
--
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: -some more children out or do
you -~
a
DAVID: Let's just hold off until we get this
spot figured
right?
DAVID:
Ineed,
Ineed
some -see,
Igave,
right?
We have the money here.
he was going to
pick me bad. A
up a lot of
line.
them and
a better
Okay? Because
you know
we're -Imean
well,
Ican't
92
move, so
DAVID: And
so if
line and
HENRY: Okay.
- DAVID:
reception.
me, because
HENRY: Okay.
You understand
--
I realize
Okay.
- you got a lot of chiefs there.
Right. Send
so that they
do that.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Okay?
Okay.
have a concern
HENRY: Yes.
Okay. What
we will
do is
will
start working
on this,
okay. And
it's either
going to be a video
we're
going to get radio. But I'll get you something. Or I'll go to work on getting you something. Okay?
92
10
DAVID: Yeah.
say
I'm coming
HENRY: Okay.
But I
want you
to understand,
hold you
--
HENRY: --
that you're
going to
send
everybody out.
everybody out.
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Do
what you
can though.
kids.
car to
got the
there?
DAVID: Yeah,
well,
give me
a call
or --
HENRY: Okay.
now.
right
DAVID: Okay. HENRY: And this and I'll call in the in a meantime, I'll little bit. work on
you back
92
11
HENRY: Bye~bye.
[gap]
iii
SPEAKER: Blew
the
SPEAKER: Oh,
good.
STEVE
HENRY STEVE
Hello?
iii
HENRY srzvs
Hello, David?
This
is Steve.
Is this
Henry?
Yes, Steve.
DAVID HENRY
Henry --
do you
want
to
talk
here?
DAVID HENRY
DAVID HENRY: DAVID HENRY DAVID HENRY: DAVID: HENRY: DAVID: Yeah.
kids ready?
Okay.
in pain!
--
okay? Are
you okay?
I'm back.
Are you
okay?
I coughed.
Wait a
minute.
12
Groaning.
!Oh,
boy.
It got
me by surprise.
'
HENRY: Um
DAVID: the back. starts it
Got the
one hole
in the
front, one
in
And whe
nI
-- if
I laugh
or if
I cough
it
up again.
HENRY DAVID HENRY DAVID: HENRY: u 0 Sure.
Okay. going --
are you
okay --
to send
down? Would
you be
int
old are
they? So you
all that.
have to
be
Okay.
The social
workers here
in town
they --
oh, man.
And Joshua,
he's, I
How o1d's
SPEAKER: Seven.
He's turned
6.
Okay. He's7.
13
DAVID: And
Jamie he's
-Nine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
DAVID:
SPEAKER: Nine.
you know,
4.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID = Okay?
HENRY: Are
DAVID: No.
they your
kids?
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID:
little, little
you their closest
paper with
them,
to kin
and, and
all that
stuff, okay?
HENRY: Okay.
know, pretty
in terms of
good.
the
time. Can
could work
that
you
an audiotape?
Do
you have
DAVID: Yeah,
And it's, it's sophisticated.
but I
just can't
get
to it.
HENRY: They
DAVID: We
to you?
a little video?
to do
HENRY: Well,
see, what
we're hoping
okay.
92
92
14 HENRY :
get this
to
serious Christian
you know,
broadcasting network
that would,
type national,
that would
broadcasting network
give us
thing.
maybe, you
know, nationwide
coverage on
this
DAVID: HENRY:
Uh-huh.
And if get it
we talk
in terms to, to --
of a video,
by the
time we
DAVID:
from here
it edited,
To have
transferred over
-to
10 --
is it
10 -
I forgot
yeah.
what
millimeter, 30,
HENRY: DAVID: HENRY:
I know So if,
if we
could -DAVID:
Steve, how
you think some, you
many, how
we could know, take
do you
know where
~- do
studio and
bring
the rack
and bring
some indiscernible!
in.
fidelity tape.
Get Greg.
Okay.
Greg would
know how to do
it,
TAPE #112
-HENRY 03/02/93
GARCIA
Depositions
01! 261-1902
Balt. &
Annap. 10!
974-0947
2 RIT?92: HENRY: RITA: HENRY: DAVID: HENRY: DAVID it's -HENRY: DAVID Hello?
Rita?
Just a
Hello?
minute, please.
Hello?
How are
you doing?
finish up.
Imean
You making
progress?
Oh, yeah.
get
it done.
a room.
Ican't
really --
Idon
DAVID: HENRY: DAVID:
Yeah. Okay,
yeah. Let
me finish
this up,
another 15
with you.
We should -
Call me
in about
-be
finished.
In about
I5 minutes?
Right.
- and That is
for the
rest of
have the two womenand, and two, and two kids that
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Depositions
Balt.
& Annap.
10! 974-0947
92
will --
C_
it.
DAVID
:Right.
Yeah, they
said they'll do
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: HENRY DAVID HENRY DAVID match.
Okay.
Okie doke?
Okay.
me get good.
back on
this then.
Oh, boy.
I feel
like I
to keep
did a boxing
it short
HENRY: Okay.
Now try
Okie doke.
Okay.
do they
want it
to
Well, you
for Jim
How long
thing that
you did
DAVID HENRY
About half
a page
or so.
You know,
you
-DAVID HENRY
Oh, that?
You, you
know --
it that
short. But
you
INC.
974-0947
Depositions
Balt. &
Annap. 10!
92
DAVID HENRY:
All right.
But, but
like that.
a half
hour or
something
DAVID
Isaid,
Ihave
to make
it-- at
least wanted
to
HENRY: DAVID HENRY DAVID: HENRY:
point, okay?
Okay, bye.
I'll talk to
iii
you later.
Bye.
SPEAKER: Is
that all
are
DAVID: Hello?
HENRY: Hello,
DAVID: Yeah.
David?
doing?
Depositions
01! 261-1902
Balt. &
Annap. 10!
974-0947
We --
it's there.
'
Okay. Is
Yeah.
the tape
done?
Okay.
Is the
-- have
they left
yet? Have
they left
yet? Unidentified
voice in
background not
discernible.! Wait
one second.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
DAVID HENRY: DAVID HENRY DAVID HENRY
SPEAKER: Yes.
Okay. You
No.
got them
yet down
there?
Well, they,
they should
be there.
is?
DAVID HENRY: DAVID HENRY:
that, you
know
-DAVID
it a
O
DAVID: I'll
HENRY: I, I--
Q
6
pay them.
- DAVID:
time.
can. But
Iwant
you to
HENRY: I'll,I'll work on it. I'll work very hard for you. You know
want, I
as just
This -that.
DAVID: This
tape, like
I say,
if it's
you know.
story got
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: It,
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: SO --
it tells
Now do
the whole
--
story.
Court Reporting
Depositions