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Minutes from Conference Call-Oct 7th,.K St Office

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On the Call: Philip (Ellie, Emily, Chris, Stephanie, Al Felzenberg
Mary Fetchet, Carol Ashley, Mindy Kleinberg, Lone Van Auken,
Kristin Breitweiser, Patty Cazassa, Bill Harvey, Beverly Eckert

Mary Fetchet - We will leave the subject of Philip's conflict of interest until the end of
the call. Three points to discuss first:
Status of Documents from the White House?
Philip said we would put out a public statement tomorrow. Tom and Lee
and the staff are encouraged.The deadline did not apply to the White House7
We have gotten access to another set of
documents from the White House. We want another small set that the
White House will first brief us on and then give us access to those
documents. We will let FSC know after the briefing if we are not
satisfied. Some agencies are slow in finding the information. They
have to go through warehouses so it is tedious. One department does not
have electronic retrieval. Families wanted to know when we would use
subpoenas. Philip said Tom and Lee will use it if and when we are not
getting documents.
It was explained that we are also doing follow on requests as a result of
interviews so there is not particular end date to these requests. As we find
information we will follow up on it.
Concerns about the Hearings
The families want answers to their questions as soon as possible.Philip said
some teams use the style of writing rolling drafts. The families think that
in that case we-eeuld have more substantive hearings sooner. Philip used
analogy of /trail. Vou fact find before the trial and hopefully know the
answers to rhsjjHestions a witness will be asked prior to the trial. We
want to ask the most effective questions so need time to prepare. The
families thought if we are using the trial for comparison why are we not
putting witnesses under oath? Philip explained lawyers are then hired and
advise their clients to keep their answers to yes and no whenever possible
so it is not as effective as one might think. Some witnesses may
be put under oath. Commissioners have not made that decision.
Philip explained the we will be doing staff statements, similar to those
done by Eleanor Hill, at the beginning of the hearings, pointing out our
findings from our investigation so witnesses will not be surprised and
should be ready to answer the questions accurately. There should be no
disagreement on what the objective evidence says.
The families want the time line as soon as possible. Philip is looking into
The NORAD and FAA hearing in January which would be the earliest date
possible.
The families are having difficulty understanding how they can help. They
want input into the hearings. They asked about the staff being on the
conference calls. Philip said we could talk about plans for hearings. If a
 family group has worked on an issue we could invite someone to testify.
It was mentioned that Sally Regenhard might testify at the Nov. hearing.
We are trying to find ways to have fewer, more meaningful witnesses.
For example for the hearing on border issues you will see ISN/State on
the same panel. Time limits for those testifying at the hearings were
discussed. Philip said the Chair and Vice Chair control that.
The families want to sit behind the Commissioners so that they can see
the witnesses and the witnesses can see them. Philip explained that the
hearing rooms make that not possible, the space behind is for the staff.
The families want to ask questions of the witnesses. Philip will raise the
issue with Tom and Lee. A runner was suggested (Emily,Ellie)

Topics for future hearings

The families suggested Congressional oversight. Philip said we had
considered it, but Congressional oversight comes up under may
other topics and will be covered. Other family suggested topics -
Saudis (We will be investigating permissive environments and safe
havens), terrorist funding, interest groups (Philip said that would be
covered when we tell our story) The families want to be sure that
the hearings a properly understood by the public. These are the
9-11 Commission hearings and our opening statement will explain,
we are doing policy hearings and the families are concerned that people
will think this is the definitive information on 9-11.

A general discussion followed. Mary Fetchet is worried that the report will be a dust
collector. They asked if we could hire someone on the staff who would be able to replace
Max Cleland if he resigns. Philip said Max's future rests with Tom Dashle. The conflict
of interest issue came up. Philip said he could speak to Tom and Lees written response
that the families will receive. The Commission has procedures for conflict of interest.
Philip had long ago recused himself from the time he was on the Bush transition team
and has made all that information available to the Commission. Lori Van Aul^en wanted
to know if Philip had direct contact with the White House document request. Philip
signed off and Chris explained that day to day access to document requests is handled by
Steve and Dan.
Kristin wanted the exact date Philip resigned from the PFIAB board. She said he should
recuse himself for the entire time. Chris said he would get the exact date of his
resignation to her. Lori wanted the Commissioners recusals on the website. The families
were surprised that the letter to the families was sent to people other than themselves for
distribution on the internet. Ellie explained that the letter had been posted on the
Commission website and they had long ago agreed to have their websites link to the
Commission website. Emily asked that the FSC send any emails that they may have for
the Commissioners to the Family Liaison web address to be sure that the Commissioners
receive their emails.
Meeting October 7, 2003
Topic - Managing FSC
Participants - Chris, Ellie, Emily, Al F.

Lee Hamiliton wants family to be able to meet with all the Commissioners after the N.J.
hearing. Al, Ellie and Emily did not think that would be productive.

Ideas discussed for broadening the dissemination of information about the Commission.
NPRX ? 7
PSA / ' '
Website - put invites on our site
Publish what we are doing - each team and the topics they are covering,
depth of what we are doing.
Finding a PR firm to work pro bono ideally based in DC
Try to include non family members in our effort to broaden our audience
Try to broaden our base through Kevin's and Ellie's contacts with other
family members and groups - Steve Push, Robin Weiner, Bill Harvey,
FSC could be enlisted to help us
Be sure the letter to the families has gone out through David Novak at the
US District Attorney's office in Virginia.
Try to get a hearing in NYC - The January one would be ideal.
Chris wanted Emily and Ellie to write our recommendations about either the possibility
of the Commissioners meeting with the FSC following the hearing in New Jersey or an
alternate plan.
Minutes -Family Phone Conference Call/Meeting , August 27th

Attending in person at 27 Federal Plaza - Carol Ashley

Kristin Breitweiser
Patty Cazanssa
Bill Harvey
Philip Zelikow
Emily Walker
Ellie Hartz
On the phone: Beverly Eckert
Lorie Van Auken
Mindy Kleinberg

Philip :

There should be a regular series of meetings/phone calls like this one.

The Commission (Tom and Lee) will be giving a major interim report on Sept 23rd - a
public report card the goal of which is to continue to place responsiblity for the
cooperation or lack of cooperation of those entities from which we are requesting
information. We will be very specific about what we have not received, but vague about
what we have received since the scope is so extensive. The White House does not want to
set a precedent with the scope of our document requests.
We found our previous interim report to be a very powerful tool. The timing of these
reports is crucial. We need to know if and when we will have to subpoena documents.
We had tremendous press coverage and hope to generate continued interest with the next
report and hearings.
Philip wanted to make 4 major points:
1. Scale of Effort
More than a month ago we took in more documents than the Joint Inquiry. We get
boxes of documents every day. Seven of the eight teams have not read what they
already have. The terrorist financing team is having a slow response from the State
Dept and the FBI. We are addressing that at the top of the agencies. This is not
ominous but frustrating. The cooperation with our requests for documents will lead
to policy decisions. If we do not receive the material fast enough we will step up the
consequences. We are not going to acquiesce to an arbitrary deadline. The
documents we have received are very rich.
2. Interviews
We have a systematic plan for interviews for the FBI, JTTF. We have chosen four
FBI offices to investigate - Miami, San Diego, Phoenix, New York and DC.
We will be interviewing to understand how intelligence work is done. How is an
agent hired? How does he interact with other agents, etc. We picked these offices for
a reason. They have done a lot of work on Al Qaeda. We did not chose offices that
have been extensively investigated by the JI. We will build on those interviews.We
have the Pentbomb file to build on. Minders have been present at the interviews of
those people who are currently employed at the respective agencies. They are not
present with past employees. Generally they are helpful in allowing the person to
 answer the question. We have found one instance when the minder was blocking
information. Philip has complained at the top.
The FBI themselves interviewed 160,000 people. We are looking at those interviews.
We do not have the time to redo those interviews although the FBI has not pulled
together and done an analysis of these interviews. We will do that.
3. Hearings
The next hearing will be in October - Organization of the American Government for
War on Terrorism. The substantive hearings will be in 2004.Cabinet level officials
Will be testifying. There will be a massive schedule of hearings. We do not want to
be silent until then so in the meantime we will be have hearings that will be more
informational rather than inquiries. We need more time to digest the information that is
coming in and to conduct interviews before we try to have comprehensive, fact finding
hearings. There are strengths and gaps in the Joint Inquiry. The JI did not work the
plot.They did not work on policy issues. We want to build the entire case surrounding
911. We want to tell what our government did and did not do. We urge the families to
keep an open mind. We have learned to be patient and humble.

4 We never really identified the 4th issue Philip wanted to discuss. We ran out of time.

The Families

The families want the interim report to have more meat. They feel we owe it to the
American people to provide some interim answers. We should be reporting on what we
have done to date. It would generate interest in the Commission. They want a very
specific investigation of just what happened on 911.
At what point do we use our subpoena power? What are the consequences? Philip
explained that it would go to court and the American people and the Congress could
decide if they wanted the Commission to have more time to complete the report.
Philip explained that the Inspector Generals of the DOT, Justice , CIA and FBI have
done extensive interviews and fact finding about their agencies in relation to 911. He
promised the families that Emily and Ellie would be sure that the families received the
names and contact information of these IGs so they could contact them themselves.

The families want details, answers to their questions. They cited E. Hill's willingness to
disclose what they had discovered along the way during the Joint Inquiry. Philip
explained that he thought we could do more damage than good by releasing information
in a piecemeal way.

It was suggested that a family member testify at each hearing. Philip explained that we
concentrate on evidence, policy and the 911 story. The Commission feels a solemn
responsibility to answer all of the families questions. He explained that we have other
pressures besides the families to which we have to respond as well. The mandate of the
Commission is to find facts and to make recommendations as well. The families "want
the truth - that's our agenda". Several questions came up from various family members
about 911, i.e. the role of the private sector, policy that influenced 911, formation of US
policy towards Arab countries, immigration, cheap labor. How and why were 3000
people killed? How do you effect change in this country? The Commission is the
families' investigators.

Families wanted to know if Max Cleland was going to resign from the Commission.
Philip said it was not up to him. He is still active. The Democrats have suggested him to
the President. Usually the President honors their suggestion. We still do not know if the
President will nominate him. Tom and Lee are concerned. Tom Daschle is really driving
the decision. The families do not want a lame duck commissioner.

hi conclusion it was agreed that the conversation had been very useful. Philip had an
appointment and explained that he did not want to cut the families short and would be
delighted to continue the conversation either this week or next if the families wanted to
do that.

Kristin said she would organize a request for another conversation. Emily and Ellie will
get the IG contact information to the families.
Minutes from July 1st conference call

Participants - Philip, Chris K., Emily W., Ellie H, SteveP, Monica Gabrielle, Mindy
Kleinberg, Beverely Eckert, Mary Fetchet, Carie Lemack, Carol Ashley.

Beverly Eckert started by saying the families wanted a more substantive hearing,
something more probing. There is a lack of understanding of what the Commission is
actually doing. Philip explained the scope of the investigation saying it was the largest
investigation, even larger than Pearl Harbor. In fact to give a sense of scale he explained
that the Commission has put forward 60 sets of document requests , each with a subset of
dozens of additional requests. He explained that documents are flowing in. The
administration is shell shocked. They are being deludged with requests with due dates.
Mueller has brought on 20 additional staff members to handle the Commission's
requests. The White House does not want to publicize the extent of the requests that they
are complying with since they do not want to set a precedent for future requests. A family
member suggested that it is not to the benefit of everyone involved not to know the status
of the document requests. Philip explained that Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton will be
holding a press conference next week to give the public a progress report. Getting press
passes for the family members who wanted to attend the press conference was discussed.
We will try to facilitate that request.

A discussion about the questioning of witnesses followed. Philip discusses the sequence
of events saying that it varied according to the information received. Sometimes you can
go directly to an interview and other times documents come in and an interview is
conducted and then more documents are requested. The tactics vary according to the flow
of information and the accessibility of the person being interviewed. Those people at the
top level of government will be interviewed at later hearings. Some of the questions that
the FSC submitted will have to be answered by top officials. That will be done at climatic
hearings nearer the end. They will have high visibility and will generate a lot of interest
in the report. . Some of these people cannot be called anytime. In fact the JI did not get
some top people at all. Philip acknowledged that some of those who testified at the
aviation hearing will be brought back for private interviews. The Commission knows that
the time line was off and the Commission has to find out why. It could be innocent
confusion or something more suspicious. We have to probe that.

The FSC wanted to know the penalty for committing perjury either in public or private.
Philip explained that if a witness is subpoenaed or under oath they will want a lawyer
present and if it relates to top secret information that lawyer will have to be cleared for
security and that process can take time, so the Commission has to make a choice on how
to use its subpoena power. The FSC wanted to know if the White House could expedite
these security clearances. It was suggested that the Commission give early notice to those
people that they are going to interview so that they can get the process of security
clearance going early. Philip acknowledged the suggestion as being a good one. He also
explained that using a subpoena does not speed up the process. However next week when
Tom and Lee give their progress report they will be specific about those agencies that
have cooperated and those that have not. In some cases there may be not political will at
the top of the agency to prevent the flow of documents or at the White House, but if
there is that will be pointed out. The administration is aware that this progress report is
going to be made. Philip thought the White House would be well advised to respond at
that time if need be.

The FSC is very concerned about accountability. They want the true story of the build up
to 9-11. A discussion of the witnesses chosen to testify at the next hearing followed with
Philip acknowledging the FSC suggested witnesses and explaining why those who were
chosen were preferable in the Commission's eyes. There is a lot of information about the
witnesses on line if one wants to explore that.

Philip explained that the report will be an historical review.This Commission is not in
the business of finding scapegoats although the issues have to be approached
systematically and authoritatively. Those who made decisions will be named. A lot of
questions will be answered specifically and judgments will be included, but in some cases
the political process with be the judge. Philip explained that the families are in a difficult
position because so much is being done below the surface and it would be up to the
Commission to repay them for their faith in the system with the report. He assured the
FSC that their questions would continue to be taken and answered if not in the report
directly then after the report is published. The FSC wanted to know if the deadline for the
report would be extended.Philip explained that he and Tom and Lee all felt that we could
meet the deadline as of today.

The FSC wanted to know if the Commissioners had a required reading list. Philip
explained that a core reading list had been given to each Commissioner. Appropriate
excerpts from some books had been taken and put in binders to make it easier on the
Commissioners. The FSC asked for copies of the Commissioners reading list in a effort
to be equally educated. Philip explained said he did not want to get into that idea. The
FSC wanted to know who had read the JI report. Philip said it was now in the office and
the staff had read those parts which applied to their research and he knew Tom had read
it completely and the other Commissioners were in the process or had read it.

Future hearing topics were discussed. The hearings will be scheduled for September,
October, November, January, February and March. The tentative topics for September
will intelligence collection and law enforcement in the US. For October terrorist
organizations, and for November border security issues. The FSC wanted to know if there
would be an interim report done by the Commission. Philip said there were no plans for
one. Would the staff be giving an interim report? Phillip said no, Tom and Lee do not
want the staff to have a public face.

Philip explained that a hearing in NYC will be later rather than sooner. NY does not have
their document requests yet. There has been some resistance to cooperating and we are
still trying to figure out why.

The FSC expressed gratitude for the call and it was suggested that Philip have a monthly
conference call with the FSC to continue to keep the line of communication open.
5/16elw

Summary of Family Meeting 5/15

Drew University

Attendees:
Families: Mary Fetchet, Monica Gabrielle, Carol Ashley, Patty Casazza,
Mindy Kleinberg, Lorie Van Auken, Stephen Push, Bill Harvey, Monica
Smith, Beverly Eckert,
Commission: Chairman Kean, Chris Kojm, Emily Walker, Ellie Hartz

Chairman Kean introduced Emily Walker and Ellie Hartz as the new Family
Liaison for the 9-11 Commission based in NYC. Talking points attached.
He made it clear to the family members that the new liaison was NOT to
replace contact with him, but facilitate the efforts of the families and their
contacts with the Commission and its work. He said that Ellie and Emily
would be a repository of information and contacts. That we would meet
with the families regularly, that all meetings would be substantive and
productive. He said that the family liaison would report to the Commission
and to the staff on these meetings. He said that the family liaison would be
responsible for ensuring that the results of the meetings with the families
would be carried out. Finally, the family liaison would provide updates on
progress with the families in between meetings.

The results of the meeting were the following:

1. The Commission would set up a 1-800 number in the NY Office.

2. The NY Office will contain a space for the families to meet with Ellie,
Emily and others. They must call ahead to make an appointment, as
the building is secure.
3. The Commission will set up an email address for the families to use.
4. The Commission will set up a section on the website for "citizens"
which will include the questions raised by the families reordered and
organized into topics aligned more or less with the Commissions'
teams. New questions will be added to these lists as they come in.
5. The Commission would consider developing a PR plan for advertising
hearings, the family liaison, and the Commissions' purpose and role
that will more clearly provide publicity for its work to the families
across the United States. It was noted that people from over 40 states
are interested. In this context, the families will provide the
Commission with the various newsletters and other means that they
use to communicate to their members. They also recommended that
.X"

5/16elw

the Commission have a press conference to introduce the family

liaison that gets some good publicity.
6. The families asked if future hearings could be announced at the end of
the next hearing so that members can plan the dates. They are less
concerned about the content of those hearings as they believe they are
prepared for questions on any topic that the hearing might consider. \. The fa

at the hearing so that it would show in the cameras and be noticeable

for those watching.
8. The families asked that if CSPAN is filming the hearings that it be
shown on the website (which we ensured them it is) and if CSPAN is
not filming the entire hearings that the Commission film the hearings.
9. The families asked that as much of the report as possible be
declassified.
10.The families asked that the Commission consider making more public
a site where those within and outside the Government can \/
anonymously provide the Commission with data and input.
1 l.The families considered that time is of the essence and if requests for
information are not reasonably immediately forthcoming that the
Commission use its subpoena powers to request this information.
12.The families asked that the witnesses be sworn in either publicly or r^
privately before the hearings.
13.The families suggested the Chairman Kean should meet with the
President and that the President should be asked to publicly support
the Commission.
14.The families asked that the Commission develop a report card and
evaluate itself as the year goes on to show progress being made. " ^
15.The families requested that the process by which the Commission is -9 -7
conducting its research be clarified for the public. (Chairman Kean
considered that he might make this clear in his opening remarks at the
next hearing).
16. The families were concerned that the amount of time allotted to the
commission's work was rushed due to the election and would not be
adequate.
17. There was discussion on how the families could interact in the »\ •
hearings by asking follow-up questions. It was agreed that these ^
follow-up questions would largely be given to the staff to include in tr
the post-hearing inquiry with the witnesses who testified.
5/16 elw

Follow-up required from the Commission:

1. 1-800 number in NY Office (already underway, elw to do)
2. Website email address (already underway, elw to do)
3. Families' questions summarized and put on the website (elw to do)
4. PR Plan (AF, CK to work on)
5. Addition to website (elw to speak to Garth)
6. Hearing issues (CK, AF to work on)
a. Set dates for next hearing and announce next week
b. Change sign to include website
c. Agree to take additional questions from families and put in
follow-up
d. Better publicize hearings
e. Future teleconferencing of hearings
f. Swearing in procedures
g. Chairman Kean's explanation of the Commission's process
7. Whistleblower site or process (CK to work on)