Jeff Sewell Deposition

In The Matter Of:
UNITEDSTATESOFAMERICA
v.
JEFFERSONCOUNTY,ALABAMA,ET.AL.
___________________________________________________
JEFFREYM.SEWELLVol.1
July30,2013
__________________________________________
JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

Page 1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA
SOUTHERN DIVISION
CIVIL ACTION NO.:
CV-75-S-666-S
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Against,
JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA, et al.,
Defendants.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CIVIL ACTION NO.: CV-74-S-17-S
JOHN M. MARTIN, et al.,
Against,
CITY OF BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA, et al.,
Defendants.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CIVIL ACTION NO.: CV-74-S-12-S
ENSLEY BRANCH OF NAACP, et al.,
Against,
GEORGE SEIBELS, et al.,
Defendants.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DEPOSITION
OF
JEFFREY M. SEWELL
JULY 30, 2013
1-800-325-3376
Merrill Corporation - New York

www.merrillcorp.com/law

Page 2
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Taken Before:
Jane B. Elliott, CCR
ACCR #306 - Expires 9-30-13
Notary Public - Expires 11-09-16
4
5
6
A P P E A R A N C E S
FOR THE PLAINTIFFS:
CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE, LLP
Mr. Rowan D. Wilson
Worldwide Plaza
10
825 Eighth Avenue
11
New York, NY
12
(212)474-1348 - rwilson@cravath.com
10019-7475
13
14
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
15
Civil Rights Division
16
Mr. Jay D. Adelstein (VIA TELEPHONE)
17
Mr. Joseph J. Sperber (VIA TELEPHONE)
18
Patrick Henry Building, Room 4026
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950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
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Washington, DC
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(202)514-3749 - jay.d.adelstein@usdoj.gov
20530
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1-800-325-3376


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(APPEARANCES)
FOR THE DEPONENT:
LOWE & GRAMMAS, LLP
Mr. E. Clayton Lowe, Jr.
Liberty Park
1952 Urban Center Parkway
Vestavia Hills, Alabama
(205)380-2499 - clowe@lowegrammas.com
35242
FOR THE DEFENDANTS:
10
MAYNARD, COOPER & GALE, PC
11
Mr. David W. Smith
12
Mr. James L. Mitchell
13
Mr. W. Thomas Mayfield, IV
14
Ms. Grace Robinson Murphy
15
1901 Sixth Avenue North
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2499 Amsouth Harbert Plaza
17
Birmingham, Alabama
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(205)254-1000 - dsmith@maynardcooper.com
35203-2618
19
20
RILEY, JACKSON
21
Mr. Jay E. Murrill
22
3530 Independence Drive
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Birmingham, Alabama
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(205)879-5000 - jay@rileyjacksonlaw.com
35209
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(APPEARANCES FOR DEFENDANTS)
Mr. Theodore A. Lawson, II
Assistant County Attorney
Room 280 Courthouse
716 Richard Arrington, Jr. Blvd. N.
Birmingham, Alabama
(205)325-5688 - lawson@jccal.org
35203
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9
10
ALSO PRESENT:
Ms. Alaizah Koorji
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* * *
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15
I N D E X
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17
EXAMINATION BY:
PAGE NO.:
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Mr. Wilson.................................6
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Mr. Smith..................................102
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RE-EXAMINATION BY:
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Mr. Wilson.................................220
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25
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EXHIBIT INDEX
2
3
4
5
MAR
Sewell Exhibit
1
Copy of Al.com article, Wright,
4/7/13
39
Copy of April 2 memorandum,

Carrington to Sewell
50
Copy of letter, 4/8/13, Carrington

to Sewell
71
6
7
8
9
10
11
County Exhibit
1
Copy of resolution of organization, 105
11/10/10
2
Copy of Al.com article, 10/18/12,

Barnett Wright
108

Kennedy
112

Archibald
114

Archibald
118
Copy of memorandum, 3/13/13, Sewell 122

to Jefferson County Commission
Copy of series of e-mails, 2/25/13

Carrington

Sewell
10
Copy of settlement agreement
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
146
19
20
21
22
205
23
24
25
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I, Jane B. Elliott, Certified
Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public for the
State of Alabama, acting as Commissioner,
certify that on this date, pursuant to the
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the
foregoing stipulation of counsel, there came
before me at the Westin Birmingham, 2221 Richard
Arrington Boulevard, Birmingham, Alabama, on the
30th day of July, 2013, commencing at
10
10:00 a.m., JEFFREY M. SEWELL, witness in the
11
above cause, for oral examination, whereupon the
12
following proceedings were had:
13
14
JEFFREY M. SEWELL,
15
being first duly sworn, was
16
examined and testified as follows:
17
18
19
THE REPORTER:
stipulations?
20
MR. WILSON:
21
22
Do you have
We do not.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. WILSON:
23
Q.
Good morning, Mr. Sewell.
24
A.
Good morning.
25
Q.
Can you state your name for the
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1
record, please?
A.
Jeffrey M. Sewell.
Q.
And at some point in time you worked
for Jefferson County; is that correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
When did you start working for
7
8
9
Jefferson County?
A.
believe.
The first time was in about 1982, I

I was in law school and I was a law
10
clerk in the office for a year.
Then went on
11
after law school into the Army in the JAG Corps,
12
and spent four years in the Army and then came
13
back, began working the second time, I believe,
14
on August 28, 1988.
15
Q.
In what capacity?
16
A.
As assistant county attorney.
17
Q.
Who was the county attorney at the
18
time when you came on in 1988?
19
A.
Andy Strickland.
20
Q.
And you reported to Mr. Strickland?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Did your position change at any time
23
during the course of your employment with
24
Jefferson County?
25
A.
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In November of -- I believe it was


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November of 2008, Andy retired and I was hired
or appointed, I guess, promoted, whatever the
word is, to county attorney.
Q.
So between August 28th of 1988 and
November of 2008 your position didn't change,
you were assistant county attorney?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Were there other assistant county
9
10
attorneys during that period of time?

A.
There were, there were other
11
assistants that preceded my second employment
12
and other assistant county attorneys that --
13
that were employed from 1988 up through -- up
14
through, you know, later in years.
15
Wagner is one of them who is now retired, and
16
Theo Lawson and eventually French McMillan and
17
Shawnna Smith.
18
Q.
Charles
Did the assistant county attorneys
19
have different responsibilities by subject
20
matter or type of work?
21
A.
Not in any official capacity, not in
22
any -- you know, there's no record of that, but
23
just by the way things worked out there tended
24
to be certain -- certain of us had certain areas
25
we did, you know, kind of -- I won't say
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specialized in, but that's just kind of what we
did and others did other things and we tried not
to get in each other's lanes as best we could.
Q.
During the time you were assistant
county attorney, did you have any responsibility
for the United States versus Jefferson case?
A.
This case?
Q.
This case.
A.
No.
10
Q.
During the period of time that you
11
12
13
14
were assistant county attorney, who did?

A.
Charles Wagner for -- for most of the
period of time, and then Theo Lawson.

Q.
And did either Mr. Wagner or
15
Mr. Lawson report to you while you were an
16
assistant county attorney?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
They reported also to Mr. Strickland?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
When Mr. Strickland was county
21
attorney, what authority did he have to direct
22
Mr. Wagner and Mr. Lawson as to their handling
23
of the U.S. V. Jefferson case?
24
25
A.
He was their direct supervisor and
department head.
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Q.
their work --
A.
Yes.
Q.
-- in that case?
So he had the ability to supervise
Did Mr. Strickland, while he was
county attorney, have the authority to direct
Mr. Wagner and Mr. Lawson as to the steps the
county would take to comply with the consent
decree -- consent decree in this case?
10
A.
He -- subject to the client, the
11
county commission, subject to their instruction
12
and direction, he did.
13
14
Q.
Then I think you said in November of
2008 you became county attorney?
15
A.
I believe that's right.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
And that was on
Mr. Strickland's retirement?
18
A.
It was.
19
Q.
Was there a gap at all?
20
A.
I don't think there was.
There is a
21
resolution of the commission that sets the date
22
that he retired.
23
I think it was October 31st, I'm not certain,
24
but I think the next Monday was November 2nd or
25
3rd, and I think that was my first day as county
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I don't recall exactly what --


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attorney.
2
3
Q.
Was there a -- do you know how you
were selected for the position?
A.
Oh, yes.
There had been -- I don't
want to get into the conversations with,
I guess, the commission, but there was a process
involved and it culminated in a vote of the
county commission and that would be recorded in
the minutes in around October or November of
10
2008.
11
Q.
12
commission?
13
A.
14
commission.
15
Q.
16
17
Were you interviewed by the
I was not formally interviewed by the
Do you know if the commission had
other candidates that were considered?

A.
There were other lawyers that had, I
18
will use the term "lobbied," for the job.
19
was aware of that.
20
21
Q.
And I
I tried to stay out of that.
Were those lawyers employees of the
county at the time?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Once you became county attorney, who
24
had the -- starting November 2008, who had the
25
day-to-day responsibility for handling the U.S.
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V. Jefferson litigation?
A.
Charlie Wagner.
He had entered an
appearance years ago.
if Theo in 2008, he probably had, I'm not going
to swear to that, I don't remember, but Charlie
was directly responsible for this case until he
retired at the -- I believe at the end of 2010.
I believe that's right.
Q.
And I don't really recall
Was Mr. Wagner also responsible until
10
the point that he retired for supervising the
11
county's consent decree compliance issues
12
related to this case?
13
14
A.
To -- subject to the client's
instructions and -- yes.
15
Q.
The client being the county
16
commission?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Are you aware that a contempt hearing
19
against Jefferson County commenced in March
20
2009?
21
22
23
A.
I am aware of it.
I was not present
at it but I know that it happened.

Q.
And were you aware that the county,
24
for example, submitted a -- a trial exhibit list
25
in October of 2008 in connection with that
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2
3
4
5
trial?
A.
Vaguely aware of it.
I don't recall
that I have seen it.

Q.
In October 2008, did you have any
responsibilities for the U.S. V. Jefferson case?
A.
No.
Q.
Are you aware that in 2009, in
advance of the trial, the county submitted a
pretrial memorandum of law in connection with
10
the contempt hearing?
11
A.
Vaguely aware of it.
12
Q.
Did you -- do you recall having any
13
involvement in directing or supervising the
14
county's 2009 trial strategy?
15
A.
I did not.
16
Q.
You had become the county attorney in
17
late 2008, I think you said.
18
issues were you focused on for the first several
19
months when you became county attorney?
20
A.
Were there -- what
The county's financial condition.
In
21
the early part of 2008, actually late 2007, the
22
financing structure of the sewer debt had begun
23
to collapse and it got worse over the course of
24
the 2008 period.
25
collapse, the occupational tax was invalidated,
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And the general fund began to


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and my attention was on the county's financial
condition.
Q.
Are you generally familiar with the
position that the county took at the
commencement of the 2009 contempt hearing?
A.
Not -- not really, no.
Q.
Do you know whether the county in
March of 2009 admitted any violation of the
consent decree?
10
A.
I don't know.
11
Q.
Do you know somebody named Janet
12
Thornton?
13
A.
14
she is.
15
Q.
Well, tell me what you know about
17
A.
As I recall, she's a consultant of
18
the county.
19
Q.
For what purpose?
20
A.
For this case.
21
Q.
And did you have any role or
16
22
I have met Mrs. Thornton.
I know who
I don't know her well.
her.
responsibility, involvement, in retaining her?
23
A.
I don't believe that I did.
24
Q.
Did you have any responsibility or
25
role in supervising the work she did for the
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county?
A.
No.
Q.
Have you ever read her deposition
testimony or trial testimony?
A.
I don't recall.
Q.
If I tell you she produced reports
for the county relating to this case in 2008, do
you know whether you had any involvement in the
supervision of that work?
10
A.
In 2008 I would not have, no.
11
Q.
Now, you're generally aware that the
12
trial that started in 2009 was adjourned for a
13
couple of years?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And that it resumed in December of
16
2012?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
As county attorney were you involved
19
in the county's trial strategy at all for the
20
2012 resumption of the trial?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Were you aware prior to the start of
23
the trial that the county had admitted in its
24
pretrial memorandum of law that it was in
25
violation of many of the decree provisions?
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MR. SMITH:
Object to the form of the
question and object to the witness providing
communications between attorneys over that
litigation strategy.
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
Well, the witness is not
under my control, to my knowledge.
8
9
Is that an instruction?
MR. LOWE:
Right.
If you're raising
an attorney-client privilege objection, then I
10
would direct him not to answer anything that
11
would reveal such privilege.
12
And since we're on this topic, the
13
county has made it quite clear they're concerned
14
about Mr. Sewell revealing privilege in this
15
deposition, so I foresee additional instances of
16
this arising in at least three ways.
17
ask Mr. Sewell a question, he objects based on
18
privilege.
19
assert and not Mr. Sewell's, I'm going to direct
20
Mr. Sewell not to answer, like in this instance.
21
One is you
Since it's the county's privilege to
The second scenario I would see would
22
be you ask Mr. Sewell a question, Mr. Smith does
23
not object; however, Mr. Sewell believes that
24
his answer may reveal something privileged, he
25
will say let me confer with my attorney.
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I will


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in turn confer with Mr. Smith.
it's privileged, then I will direct him not to
answer.
If he believes
In the third scenario, you ask
Mr. Sewell a question, he doesn't object,
Mr. Smith doesn't object, Mr. Sewell answers
believing that his answer does not contain a
privilege, and indeed the county may think it
does, then I believe it's incumbent upon the
10
county to assert it at that point and we'll take
11
it up then.
12
13
Is everybody okay with proceeding

that way?
14
15
MR. ADELSTEIN:
it's Clay Lowell speaking?
16
MR. LOWE:
17
MR. ADELSTEIN:
18
MR. LOWE:
19
Am I correct that
Lowe, yeah, L-O-W-E.

Thank you.
I'm sorry, I forgot all
about you being on the telephone.
20
MR. WILSON:
That -- that is a -- I
21
guess the only thing I would ask is that if
22
Mr. Smith is making an objection that concerns
23
an assertion of privilege, that he put the word
24
privilege somewhere into whatever he puts on the
25
record.
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MR. LOWE:
I agree with that.
MR. WILSON:
Because the last one, I
couldn't tell if it was purely a form objection
or if there was some concern that there was a
privileged communication problem.
6
7
MR. SMITH:
note that.
8
9
In the deposition -- I'll
In the deposition, typically in a

deposition we stipulate at the outset that
10
objections other than as to form are reserved,
11
and of course privilege is an issue where the
12
county attorney is being deposed.
13
reserving other objections?
14
MR. WILSON:
Are we
I think the Federal
15
Rules reserve objections as to hearsay and so
16
on, but privilege I've never understood to be
17
that sort of a thing.
18
assert it if you intend to --
19
MR. LOWE:
I think you need to
And I understood at the
20
beginning we said there were no stipulations in
21
addition to what -- the rules that apply.
22
23
MR. SMITH:
So you said what about stipulations?
24
25
See, I didn't hear that.
MR. WILSON:
That there were no
stipulations, but I believe the Federal Rules
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explicitly preserve objections other than as to
form.
MR. LOWE:
But back to your question,
it would probably help to reread the question,
let him make his objection more succinctly and
move on from there.
How about that?
MR. WILSON:
That's fine.
If I --
sure, and just as long as I understand that you
have a privilege issue in the objection, that's
10
all I need.
11
12
MR. SMITH:
Sure, and I'll do my best
to articulate something about it.
13
MR. WILSON:
14
MR. SMITH:
Thank you.
And so to clarify, my
15
last objection was an objection to privilege
16
concerns.
17
be, but it was a question about information he
18
had, and not knowing the foundation of that at
19
all my concern is that I have to assert
20
privilege to the question as phrased.
21
I don't know what the answer would
MR. WILSON:
22
different question.
23
MR. LOWE:
24
Okay.
Let me try a
Are we withdrawing the
last one?
25
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Mr. WILSON:
Sure.


Page 20
1
MR. LOWE:
MR. WILSON:
Okay.
Well, there's been an
objection and an instruction, so we'll just
leave it at that and I'll move on.
MR. LOWE:
Q.
Okay.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Do you recall
reading the county's 2012 pretrial memorandum
before it was filed with the court?
A.
I do recall reading it.
10
Q.
And do you recall commenting on it at
A.
Yes.
11
12
all?
13
MR. SMITH:
14
MR. WILSON:
15
Objection.
To anyone.
To whom?
I didn't ask
for the substance of the comment.
16
MR. SMITH:
Object on privilege.
If
17
he provided legal advice about it, we assert the
18
privilege.
19
or you about it, then it wouldn't be privileged.
20
If he talked to Judge Smith about it
MR. WILSON:
Well, the fact that he
21
commented on it even to a client, unless I'm
22
asking for the substance of the comment, isn't
23
seeking privileged information.
24
information you have to provide on a privilege
25
log were there one.
1-800-325-3376
It's


Page 21
1
MR. SMITH:
Information you have to
provide on a privilege log what?
MR. WILSON:
Were there one.
All I'm
asking is whether a conversation existed.
the answer's no, then it's no.
yes, I'm not going to inquire about the
substance.
8
9
MR. SMITH:
If
If the answer is
And I suppose then it'd
be important to say that if the question is a
10
yes or no question, that the answer be limited
11
to yes or no rather than going on into what the
12
yes might have behind it so that we can judge it
13
one question at a time.
14
MR. LOWE:
That's fair enough.
15
think what he's saying, and you certainly
16
realize that if he asks you a yes or no
17
question, say yes or no.
18
don't divulge the explanation for the yes or no.
19
20
THE WITNESS:
I think I understand
that.
21
22
If he objects you
MR. LOWE:
Q.
He does.
(BY MR. WILSON)
So the question is
23
did you comment on the pretrial memorandum
24
before it was filed?
25
A.
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Yes.


Page 22
1
Q.
Are you aware that the county's
pretrial memorandum contains a number of
stipulations of violations of the consent
decree?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you were aware of that before it
was filed?
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
10
MR. SMITH:
11
MR. LOWE:
Objection.
What's the grounds?
Privilege.
Direct him not to answer,
12
based on the county asserting the privilege and
13
it's not Mr. Sewell's privilege to assert.
14
15
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Did you read a draft
of the pretrial memorandum?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
And when you read the draft, did you
18
see stipulations of violations of the consent
19
decree in it?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
In 2012, did you have the authority
22
to alter the contents of filings to be made with
23
the courts if you believed them to be wrong?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Is it a fair characterization to say
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Page 23
1
that the county's position as to the
Martin-Bryant party's motion for contempt
changed between 2009 and 2012?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did you have any role in that
change?
7
8
MR. SMITH:
Objection to the extent
it calls for privileged information.
MR. LOWE:
That was a yes or no.
10
MR. WILSON:
11
THE WITNESS:
12
MR. LOWE:
13
16
Answer?
Answering yes doesn't
reveal any privilege.
14
15
Just a yes or no.
THE WITNESS:
The answer to the
question is yes.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
I don't recall
17
seeing you at the 2012 trial.
18
any portions of it?
19
20
21
22
A.
I did not.
Did you attend
I don't recall that I've
ever entered an appearance in that case.

Q.
Did you read any of the trial
testimony after it occurred?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Did you read any of the trial
25
testimony given by county commissioners?
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1
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did you read all of the trial
testimony given by the county commissioners?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you recall when you first did
that?
A.
Very soon after the trial.
Q.
And have you read their testimony
more than once?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Do you recall the -- let's start
12
slowly.
13
testifying to the following in response to a
14
question:
15
making sure the county comes into compliance
16
with the consent decree?
Do you recall Commissioner Stephens
Are you personally committed to
17
Answer:
18
Question:
One hundred percent.

Are you committed to
19
allowing Manager Petelos to take the steps
20
needed without interference from the county
21
commission?
22
23
Answer:
and uphold the law and that is the law.
24
25
Yes, sir, I agree to abide
Do you recall testimony to that

effect by Commissioner Stephens?
1-800-325-3376


Page 25
1
A.
I recall reading that.
Q.
Yeah -- yes.
Sorry.
That's my
question.
Do you recall reading a colloquy
between Judge Smith and Commissioner Stephens
about an incident involving Commissioner
Stephens' interference with employment
decisions?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And do you recall -- well, do you
11
have any recollection of what your perception of
12
Judge Smith's comments were, if any?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And what was your perception of that
15
testimony?
16
A.
Of Judge Smith's comments?
17
Q.
Correct.
18
A.
That Judge Smith was making it very
19
clear what Judge Smith expected.
20
Q.
And what was that?
21
A.
Compliance.
22
Q.
Do you recall that Commissioner
23
Knight also testified at the trial?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
And do you recall reading testimony
1-800-325-3376


Page 26
1
of Commissioner Knight to the following effect:
Question, all right, do you plan in any way to
interfere with Mr. Petelos' duties as the
appointing authority of Jefferson County?
Answer:
No, sir.
Question:
Do you believe that
Mr. Petelos is committed to compliance with the
consent decree?
9
10
Answer:
I do believe that he's fully
willfully compliant with this consent decree.
11
Question:
Do you believe that the
12
commission is committed to compliance with the
13
consent decree?
14
Answer:
15
Question:
16
Yes.
What about you
individually?
17
Answer:
Absolutely.
18
Do you recall that testimony?
19
A.
I recall reading it, yes.
20
Q.
And do you recall Judge Smith having
21
the colloquy with Commissioner Knight as well in
22
which he used the phrase "heavy feet"?
23
A.
I recall reading it.
24
Q.
Did you attend a meeting of the
25
Jefferson County Commission's Administrative
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Page 27
1
Services Committee on April 12, 2013?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And who was on the -- who were the
members of the administrative services
committee?
A.
All five of the county commissioners.
Q.
Do you know whether Mr. Petelos was
present at the meeting?
A.
I don't think that he was.
10
Q.
Were members of the public present at
11
the meeting?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Was the press present at the meeting?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Do you know whether the meeting was
16
open to anyone who wanted to attend?
17
18
19
20
A.
It was a public meeting under Alabama
Q.
So you didn't need an invitation, you
law.
could simply show up?
I could have shown up?
21
A.
Absolutely.
22
Q.
And I wouldn't have been turned away?
23
A.
Should not have been.
24
Q.
Were you there for the whole meeting?
25
A.
Yes.
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Page 28
1
2
Q.
And do you remember speaking at the
meeting?
A.
I do.
Q.
Do you recall whether there was any
dispute about whether you should be allowed to
speak at the meeting?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And what do you recall about that?
MR. SMITH:
10
of the term dispute.
11
A.
Object to the form, use

You may go ahead.
I just -- I recall that there was
12
some debate between county commissioners as to
13
whether I should be allowed to speak.
14
15
16
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
And do you recall
who was on which side of the debate?

A.
Not really, to be honest with you.
17
-- I just recall that there was discussion
18
and -- which I stayed out of, as I recall.
19
20
Q.
And ultimately you were allowed to
speak?
21
A.
I was.
22
Q.
Do you recall saying at the meeting
23
that the awarding of a merit raise by Tony
24
Petelos is one of several personnel matters that
25
the commissioners have no role in anymore, all
1-800-325-3376


Page 29
1
of you have made that clear in your testimony to
Judge Smith, do you understand that?
A.
Do I recall saying that?
Q.
At the meeting?
A.
I do.
Q.
Now, in October 2012, did the county
7
8
9
commission give you a pay raise?

A.
They -- they awarded a raise.
don't remember the exact date, but --
10
Q.
Somewhere in late 2012?
11
A.
Somewhere in that time, yes.
12
Q.
Do you recall seeing any statements
13
by Commissioner Carrington concerning his views
14
of the -- of your job performance?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And what do you recall him saying?
17
A.
To me or to others?
18
Q.
Either way.
19
MR. SMITH:
Yeah, I mean, we assert
20
the privilege.
21
talking about the media coverage, but we assert
22
the privilege over any communication that would
23
fall within, you know, attorney/client
24
privilege.
25
1-800-325-3376
I don't know -- well, you were
MR. WILSON:
So you're -- just so I'm


Page 30
1
clear, if Commissioner Carrington told
Mr. Sewell something about Mr. Sewell's
performance, you view that as attorney/client
privilege?
MR. SMITH:
Was the question limited
-- see, you've got your hand over your face
while you're asking questions and I am
struggling to hear you.
MR. WILSON:
10
MR. SMITH:
I'm sorry.
It's okay.
I -- but I'm
11
not playing a game about not hearing as well as
12
I'd like, but I thought that you were asking him
13
about statements Carrington made about his
14
performance and didn't limit it to statements
15
made to Jeff.
16
17
MR. WILSON:
I did not limit it to
statements to Jeff.
18
MR. SMITH:
And so if Commissioner
19
Carrington sought legal advice about that, then
20
that would be something that falls within
21
privilege.
22
scenarios that could be behind that.
23
Q.
And I don't know the various
(BY MR. WILSON)
All right.
Let me
24
ask you to exclude from your answer any legal
25
advice Commissioner Carrington sought from you
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Page 31
1
about your job performance and instead ask --
well, and let's take it in little pieces.
you have any conversations directly with
Commissioner Carrington about your job
performance at or around the time the commission
awarded you a raise?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And in the course of those
9
10
conversations with Commissioner Carrington, was

he seeking legal advice from you?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
Was he commenting on how well he
13
Did
thought you performed the job?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And tell me what you remember about
16
that conversation.
17
A.
It was all very positive.
18
Q.
Do you recall him saying anything
19
negative, room for improvement, critical,
20
anything like that?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
How many conversations did you have
23
with him on the subject of your performance?
24
A.
I don't recall.
25
Q.
Do you recall any statements that
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Several.


Page 32
1
Commissioner Carrington made to the press about
your performance?
A.
I do.
Q.
And do you recall him saying
something to the effect of there is not a member
of the commission who has not told me how much
they value Jeff's knowledge and his guidance to
this council, we believe he's a valued member of
our team.
10
A.
I recall being present at a meeting
11
when those words were spoken and I recall
12
reading them in various media.
13
14
Q.
Somewhere around the time of your pay
raise?
15
A.
Somewhere around that time.
16
Q.
Do you recall at the April 12, 2013
17
committee meeting stating that on the afternoon
18
of April 2nd you got a memo from Commissioner
19
Carrington that outlined seven performance
20
deficiencies?
21
A.
Do I recall stating myself at the
22
April 12th meeting that I had received a memo
23
from Commissioner Carrington on April 2nd, on
24
the afternoon of April 2nd --
25
Q.
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Correct.


Page 33
1
A.
-- outlining seven performance
deficiencies?
Q.
Yes.
A.
Yes, I recall saying that.
Q.
Okay.
Did you also -- do you also
recall telling the commission at the April 12th
meeting that that was the first memo of
performance deficiency that you've ever
received, not just as an attorney for Jefferson
10
County for 25 years but also for four years
11
before that as a JAG lawyer?
12
A.
I recall --
13
Q.
Saying that?
14
A.
The substance of that, yes.
I don't
15
recall the exact words I used, but I do recall
16
saying that.
17
Q.
Was that statement in substance true?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
So the April 2nd memo you got from
20
Commissioner Carrington was the first written
21
negative review of your job performance you had
22
received ever?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Now, earlier on the day of April 2nd,
25
2013, did you write or deliver a memo to the
1-800-325-3376


Page 34
1
Jefferson County Commission?
A.
Did I write or deliver?
Q.
Let's say did you deliver?
A.
I did not deliver.
Q.
Did you write a memo to the
commission on April 2nd?
MR. SMITH:
Objection, work product.
MR. WILSON:
It was just a question
of whether a memorandum exists, not the
10
substance, but if you're going to instruct him
11
not to answer that --
12
MR. LOWE:
13
MR. WILSON:
14
MR. LOWE:
Well, it's up to me -Right.

-- to instruct him not to
15
answer, but he's making a work product
16
objection.
17
the objection?
18
asking the substance of it.
What's -- what's the substance of

Did he author a memo?
19
MR. SMITH:
20
MR. LOWE:
He's not
Are you --
Well, if he -He hasn't even identified
21
the memo, he just said did you write a memo on a
22
particular date.
23
MR. SMITH:
24
answer to did you write a memo.
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. LOWE:
All right.
I'll allow an
On whatever particular


Page 35
1
date.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
April 2nd, 2013.
A.
I co-wrote a memo.
Q.
Okay.
A.
My memory is that the memo was on my
Who were your co-authors?
letterhead and my name was on it, along with
Theo Lawson, Ted Hosp and perhaps Grace Murphy.
If someone has the memo, then that would -- I
don't have it.
10
11
Q.
Do you know who prepared the initial
draft of that memo?
12
A.
I -- I don't remember.
13
Q.
Do you know whether it was you?
14
A.
It may have been.
I just -- you have
15
to understand, I write a lot of memos -- I wrote
16
a lot of memos.
17
Q.
18
advice?
19
A.
I think that it probably fairly did.
20
Q.
Did it provide legal advice to the
21
Did that memorandum provide legal
Jefferson County Commission?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Generally speaking, without revealing
24
the advice, was the subject whether the
25
commission's actions were consistent with the
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Page 36
1
county manager law?
2
3
MR. SMITH:
Objection, assert
privilege.
MR. LOWE:
I agree with him on that
one.
reveal privilege, so I direct him not to answer.
7
8
I mean, the subject in that memo would
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Did the subject have
anything to do with the county manager act?
MR. SMITH:
10
MR. LOWE:
11
Q.
Object, assert privilege.

Direct him not to answer.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Did the memorandum
12
contain any discussion about the contempt
13
hearing in the U.S. V. Jefferson case?
14
MR. SMITH:
15
MR. LOWE:
16
Objection, privilege.
I'll have to direct him
not to answer based on their objection.
17
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Are you aware of an
18
article in "The Birmingham News," or AL.com that
19
describes the April 2 memo in the following
20
way:
21
manager the Jefferson County Commission has not
22
formally relinquished their oversight of
23
department heads and is out of compliance with
24
the county manager law, the county's attorney
25
warned this week in a memo obtained by AL.com,
Eighteen months after hiring a county
1-800-325-3376


Page 37
1
"The Birmingham News."
2
3
4
MR. SMITH:
Objection, assert
privilege.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Well, I think all I
asked -- I may not have asked it.
reading an article that said that?
MR. SMITH:
yes/no answer to that question.
Do you recall
I don't object to the
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
When you read that
11
article, did you reach any conclusion about
12
whether "The Birmingham News" had actually
13
obtained a copy of the memo?
14
15
MR. SMITH:
second?
I need a minute to --
16
17
MR. LOWE:
That phone is getting
annoying.
18
19
May I have just a
MR. SMITH:
It compounds the hearing
problem.
20
MR. LOWE:
21
don't have a hearing problem.
22
23
MR. SMITH:
Yeah, mine too, and I
Ma'am, would you read
that question back to me, please?
24
(Whereupon the requested
25
portion of testimony was
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Page 38
1
read.)
MR. SMITH:
If the question is, on
reading it if you had a mental operation about
whether they have it, then I don't object to
that, but if he undertook to investigate it,
then that's a separate thing.
your question does trigger the possibility of
privileged information being provided in the
answer.
So I think that
So without knowing the answer, we make
10
our objection that no privileged information
11
should be provided in response.
12
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Okay.
To be clear,
13
I'm not asking whether you undertook any effort
14
at all.
15
it did you think that the paper has the article
16
-- I'm sorry, has the memorandum?
I'm asking purely about when you read
17
A.
Did I think that?
18
Q.
Uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).
19
20
MR. LOWE:
can answer.
21
22
David's nodding that he
MR. SMITH:
And I -- I mean, if
there's an objection I'll say it.
23
MR. WILSON:
24
MR. LOWE:
25
MR. SMITH:
1-800-325-3376
Okay.
Good.
All right.
I don't mean to -- Jeff


Page 39
1
was looking at me that moment.
MR. LOWE:
we are a little --
4
5
Oh, I understand because
THE WITNESS:
(PHONE RINGING).
MR. LOWE:
THE WITNESS:
Was that you?

Unfortunately.
Thought
I turned it off.
9
10
So I can answer?
So I can answer the question, did I

think the newspaper had a copy of the memo?
11
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
That's the question.
12
A.
I don't recall thinking whether they
13
might have had a copy or not.
I just -- I don't
14
remember thinking that.
15
much about the article and I don't know if they
16
have a copy of it, or had a copy of it.
17
don't know.
I don't remember too
18
MR. WILSON:
19
Exhibit 1 a copy of the article.
I just
Let me mark as Sewell
20
(Whereupon, Exhibit 1 was marked for
21
identification, a copy of which is
22
attached hereto.)
23
MR. SMITH:
24
MR. WILSON:
25
May I have 30 seconds?

Of course.
Do you want
to take a copy with you?
1-800-325-3376


Page 40
1
2
MR. SMITH:
I have one -- I will take
a copy.
(Whereupon, a short recess was
had, 10:36 a.m. - 10:38 a.m.)
5
6
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Have you had a
chance to look at the article in AL.com?
A.
Yes.
Q.
I'm not going to read the whole thing
into the record or have you do that, but reading
10
it now, do you believe that the newspaper has a
11
copy of your April 2nd memorandum?
12
MR. LOWE:
Is your question to him
13
just from reading this did he assume that they
14
had a copy of it?
15
MR. WILSON:
16
would he draw that conclusion.
17
MR. LOWE:
18
As he reads it now, yes,
There's apparently no
objection.
19
MR. SMITH:
20
MR. LOWE:
21
MR. SMITH:
Well, let me say this -Or is he pondering?

It's -- my concern is
22
that we not have testimony that is protected as
23
privileged because it amounts to the county
24
attorney forming a legal opinion or -- or in
25
effect starting toward work product.
1-800-325-3376
And these


Page 41
1
are gray areas, they're certainly difficult for
me, so I don't know what the next question is,
but if the question, if I'm recalling the
question correctly and the question is from
reading this piece of paper here today, do you
think they have a copy, and that is the entirety
of the question, then I'm not going to object to
privilege on some thought he has here today.
9
10
MR. WILSON:
question.
11
MR. SMITH:
12
MR. LOWE:
13
That's the entirety of
A.
Thank you.
Go ahead.
I don't know if they had a copy of
14
the article or not.
15
there are several quotes that appear to be
16
quotes from the memo in quotation marks which
17
suggests to me that the author of the article
18
had at least seen the memo, but whether they
19
have a copy, I don't know.
20
Q.
I note in the article that
(BY MR. WILSON)
Do you recall at the
21
April 12th, 2013 committee meeting telling the
22
committee, there are changes in that resolution
23
that you need to make that -- that you need to
24
make to make that document comply with the
25
existing law of Alabama and you got the memo
1-800-325-3376


Page 42
1
from me about that?
A.
I recall words to that effect, yes.
Q.
And the memo from me about that that
you referred to in that portion of the committee
meeting was the April 2 memo we've been talking
about?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you recall that Commissioner
Carrington started the April 12th, 2013
10
committee meeting by saying that the memo that
11
you sent expressed an opinion that the
12
commission's committee structure outlined in the
13
commission's organizational resolution that
14
Mr. Sewell participated in drafting and
15
recommended for adoption in 2010 was somehow
16
inconsistent with the county manager act?
17
A.
18
Q.
That Mr. Carrington said at the
19
committee hearing?
20
A.
Words to that effect, yes.
21
Q.
Do you recall one of commissioners at
22
the committee hearing on April 12th saying that,
23
with regard to the April 2nd memo that you'd
24
written, we all kind of know what it said
25
because it was published in the paper, or pieces
1-800-325-3376


Page 43
1
of it were?
A.
I don't have any memory of that.
Q.
Okay.
We're going to try and play
you an audio clip and see if you can identify
who this is.
A.
Okay.
Q.
This is an audio clip from a
recording produced to us by the county
purporting to be a recording of this committee
10
meeting.
11
(PLAYING RECORDING)
And -- and would
12
it be prudent for you as the county attorney to
13
say, hey guys, I've got this coming up?
14
know, you may have forgotten about it, I don't
15
know, you knew about it, and I don't know, I
16
don't feel like you communicated that to us.
17
The April 2nd memorandum is -- here we had this
18
organizational chart in 2010 when we came in and
19
it -- it says what it says.
20
consent hearing, the contempt hearing, and
21
several months passed by and the issue never
22
became paramount until April 2nd, 2010.
23
think that was in response to Mr. Carrington
24
putting forth a resolution to add another
25
committee for the county manager so that we can
1-800-325-3376
You
And we had the
And I


Page 44
1
kind of shift all those departments under county
manager to him, and -- and then had the county
attorney to have a committee.
and Mr. Carrington, I think y'all told me y'all
had talked, and we're in this committee meeting
and then you pull out a memorandum and put it
down, and we kind of stepped back and took that
deep breath, and then a few days later you came
with that other memorandum saying it was, I
And I know you
10
guess, an emergency.
And so I guess my question
11
is why did it become so, you know, a burning
12
issue on April the 2nd, because, you know, we
13
all know kind of what -- what it said because it
14
was published in the paper, or pieces of it
15
were.
16
going, hey, let's -- on the organization, we
17
need to address it -- (RECORDING STOPPED).
And so as opposed to the county attorney
18
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
19
if you know?
20
A.
21
Knight.
22
Q.
Okay.
Who is that,
That sounds to be Commissioner Joe
I had asked you previously whether
23
prior to April 2nd -- prior to April 2nd you had
24
ever received any written complaints about your
25
performance while employed with Jefferson
1-800-325-3376


Page 45
1
County.
I think your answer was no.
A.
None that I can recall.
Q.
Do you recall ever receiving any oral
complaints about your performance prior to April
2nd from any of the county commissioners?
MR. SMITH:
Let me interject an
objection.
I'm concerned that if -- about
discussions between Commissioner Carrington and
Mr. Sewell can include topics that we will
10
assert privilege on and where -- where what they
11
disagree about is the county's legal strategy or
12
the approach to handling a legal matter, that
13
there's a privilege there.
14
that privilege objection at this point on the
15
topic of where the subject of the question is
16
performance concerns or some similar phrase.
17
MR. LOWE:
And so we assert
But just so we're clear,
18
you don't have an objection to him answering
19
questions regarding discussions that solely
20
involve performance issues?
21
MR. SMITH:
22
MR. LOWE:
Well -That don't overlap or
23
disclose anything about legal strategies, work
24
product or whatever?
25
MR. SMITH:
1-800-325-3376
Well, I --


Page 46
1
MR. LOWE:
And the reason I say that,
you allowed him to answer earlier about a
performance question.
now, are you?
5
6
MR. SMITH:
that.
7
8
So you're not backing up
Yeah, I'm concerned about
I -MR. WILSON:
Let me, if I can
shortcut this, not to interrupt you.
MR. LOWE:
10
MR. WILSON:
No, please do.

But all I asked was a
11
yes or no question about whether he ever has had
12
a discussion with a county commissioner in which
13
he received some sort of a negative evaluation
14
of his performance.
15
substance, just did the conversation express
16
this, yes or no.
17
18
MR. SMITH:
I didn't ask for the
All right.
No objection
to a yes/no answer to that question.
19
A.
You have to put a time frame on it,
20
before when?
21
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Well, I initially
22
asked from the time that you started work for
23
the county as an assistant county attorney up
24
through April 1st of 2013.
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
I don't recall ever having received


Page 47
1
an oral --
2
3
MR. SMITH:
We were looking for a yes
or no, I think.
THE WITNESS:
MR. SMITH:
my concern is beyond yes or no.
MR. WILSON:
I'm sorry.
No, I'm only pointing out
Well, sorry.
Yes, no or
I don't recall, I think, would be acceptable.
MR. SMITH:
It would.
10
A.
I don't recall any.
11
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Prior to April 2 of
12
2013, did you believe that you had a good
13
working relationship with the commissioners?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Did you, prior to April 1st of 2013,
16
work with outside attorneys for Jefferson
17
County?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Often, not often?
20
A.
All day, every day.
21
Q.
On a variety of different matters?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
From a variety of different firms?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Do you have any reason to believe
1-800-325-3376


Page 48
1
that any of them prior to April 1st of 2013
questioned your abilities or competence?
3
4
MR. SMITH:
Objection, assert
privilege.
MR. WILSON:
MR. LOWE:
Just a yes or no?

Do you have a problem with
him answering yes or no to that?
MR. SMITH:
Not just yes or no.
A.
Please restate.
I'm sorry.
10
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Sure.
Prior to
11
April 2nd of 2013, do you have any reason to
12
believe that any of the outside lawyers you
13
worked with had complaints about your abilities
14
or competence?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Before April 2 of 2013, had you been
17
notified by anyone that your management of
18
outside lawyers was deficient in any way?
19
MR. SMITH:
Sorry, just a second.
20
Will you read that back to me, please?
21
sorry.
22
(Whereupon, the question was
23
read.)
24
MR. SMITH:
25
I'm
Anything other than a
yes/no, I'd object to on the basis of privilege.
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Page 49
1
2
THE WITNESS:
moment.
MR. WILSON:
MR. LOWE:
Let me talk to Clay a
Of course.
Do we need to get up, talk
about it?
THE WITNESS:
had, 10:50 a.m. - 11:06 a.m.)
MR. WILSON:
10
Yeah.
I think we might have to
have the last question read.
11
(Whereupon, the question was
12
read.)
13
MR. LOWE:
14
That's a yes or no
question.
15
MR. SMITH:
And for the record, the
16
yes or no aspect is important but not
17
determinative for me.
18
based on the content of the question alone.
19
This question we do not assert privilege on.
20
A.
There could be concerns
You have asked me if there was
21
concerns about my management of outside law
22
firms?
23
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
24
A.
You have not asked me if there were
25
Correct.
concerns about outside law firms?
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Page 50
1
Q.
Correct.
A.
About my management of firms, no,
there would have been no --
(Whereupon, Sewell Exhibit 2 was
marked for identification, a copy of
which is attached hereto.)
Q.
Let me show you what I've marked as
Exhibit 2, which is a letter to you titled Re:
Ongoing performance deficiencies dated April 2,
10
2013 from David Carrington.
11
12
It's always good to give counsel

copies first.
13
14
Do you recall receiving a copy of a

letter mostly like this on April 2nd, 2013?
15
A.
I do.
16
Q.
Okay.
Let me ask you just a couple
17
of things.
If you see under item three and
18
under item six, there's the word redacted?
19
A.
20
see it.
21
Q.
22
what I take.
23
April 2nd have the words "redacted" under items
24
three and six?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
I take it that the -- well, forget

Did the version that you got on
No.


Page 51
1
2
Q.
And where the word "redacted" now
appears, was there some additional text?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did the version that you received on
April 2nd have the word "confidential" on the
bottom of each of the two pages?
7
8
9
10
A.
I don't think so.
I really don't
remember, but -Q.
Do you have a copy of that memorandum
with you?
11
A.
Not with me.
12
Q.
Does your counsel have one?
13
A.
Probably.
14
Q.
Would you take a look at the original
15
and just tell me if the word "confidential" was
16
on the bottom of page one or page two?
17
A.
It is not.
18
Q.
How did you receive this letter?
19
A.
It was in an envelope -- or excuse
20
me, in an envelope.
21
lunch that day, I had a late lunch, I don't
22
remember why, and got back in a little bit late,
23
later than normal, and it was in an envelope,
24
I think, in my chair in my office, just the
25
envelope.
1-800-325-3376
When I returned, I went to


Page 52
1
2
Q.
Sitting on your chair or on your desk
somewhere?
A.
Q.
Somewhere in your office?
A.
I think it was in my -- I think it
6
7
was in my chair.
Q.
Are you familiar with the -- you're
familiar with the letter, I guess?
it, you read it on April 2nd?
10
11
12
A.
You've seen
I read it, yes, when I returned from
lunch that afternoon.

Q.
And you had a discussion that
13
afternoon with Commissioner Carrington and
14
Commissioner Little-Brown about it?
15
A.
I had a discussion, yes.
I had a
16
meeting that I was asked to attend that
17
afternoon.
18
Q.
With the two of them?
19
A.
She was -- well, yes.
20
Q.
You were going to say she was
21
22
23
something?
A.
She was not there for the entire
meeting.
24
Q.
Oh.
25
A.
She was in and out, and I don't
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Was she there at the beginning?


Page 53
1
remember.
when she was -- but she was in and out.
3
4
Q.
I don't remember when she was in and
Was the purpose of the meeting to
discuss the contents of the letter?
A.
That was my understanding.
Q.
And, in fact, was that what happened?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Now, prior to receiving this letter,
9
10
had any of the commissioners raised with you any

of the issues contained in the letter?
11
A.
12
Not that I can recall.
13
14
Let me look at this a moment. (PAUSE)
Q.
Do you know what the subject of item
six was?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And do you think you can describe the
17
subject without revealing any legal advice
18
sought or given?
19
A.
I would need to read it.
I just
20
don't remember, but we have -- if someone has a
21
copy, an unredacted copy, I'll be happy to read
22
it.
23
MR. LOWE:
24
MR. SMITH:
25
You want him to do that?

Is that what your
question is?
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Page 54
1
MR. WILSON:
Well, yes.
If there's a
copy available to him that his counsel has,
then, yes, I would like him to read it, and then
the question will be if he thinks he can
describe the subject matter without revealing
any legal advice.
7
8
MR. LOWE:
Are you formulating your
objection, David, or can he answer.
9
10
So that's still a yes or no.
MR. SMITH:
wait, please.
11
Yeah, I'm retrieving --
(PAUSE)
Let me see yours -- I can't put my
12
hands on the one in my jacket.
13
question is?
14
MR. WILSON:
Thank you.
The
Whether he thinks that
15
he can describe the subject matter of item six
16
without revealing any privileged information.
17
MR. SMITH:
Yeah.
I do think that --
18
not intentionally, I know there was a different
19
phrasing in the question.
20
before did say legal advice.
21
concern here would be over an answer that gets
22
to any aspects of whether there is legal advice
23
or work product there, but he -- he can answer
24
that question, that one question.
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. WILSON:
I think the question

And the privilege
All I've asked is one


Page 55
1
question, and it's a yes or no or I don't know.
MR. SMITH:
(Whereupon the question was
read.)
MR. SMITH:
answered.
Read the question again.
That question may be
Thank you.
A.
Yes.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
9
10
11
So without revealing
any legal advice, how would you describe the

subject of item number six?
A.
12
May I see it back?

MR. SMITH:
Rowan, my concern, and
13
I'm happy to have some dialogue about what the
14
right way to deal with this is, but that's a
15
county document.
16
fall within the scope of the third request for
17
production.
18
by August the 30th we'll provide a privilege log
19
about the documents being produced, and so
20
the -- you know, having this witness testify
21
about the -- what would be equivalent to
22
privilege log information that we would provide
23
in order to give a sufficient indication to
24
indicate why we're objecting, to have the
25
witness do that now is inconsistent with the
1-800-325-3376
It's a document that would
The agreement that we have is that


Page 56
1
schedule we have established for articulating
these privilege objections to documents.
-- so until we reach the point in our document
production schedule where we're called on to
articulate privilege objections, I don't know of
anything that's more appropriate for me to do
than to assert privilege based on what I know so
far, and not have testimony where I've redacted
it based on privilege already.
And so
So with that --
10
with that -- I'll be glad to hear you if you
11
have a different idea about it.
12
MR. WILSON:
Well, it's certainly
13
news to me that if a non-party pursuant to a
14
subpoena produces a document you can object to
15
examination about it and instruct the witness
16
not to answer on the ground that you're going to
17
produce it later pursuant to the schedule.
18
I -- that's foreign to me.
19
witness produced this document --
20
21
MR. SMITH:
So
It seems to me the
I'm sorry, it's foreign
what?
22
MR. WILSON:
To me.
The witness
23
produced this document.
24
it on the schedule that we agreed to, but that
25
doesn't restrict in any way my ability -- the
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The county can produce


Page 57
1
fact that we have a schedule doesn't restrict my
ability to ask the witness about it.
If you're objecting on the ground
that you don't believe anyone or this witness
can describe the subject matter without
revealing attorney/client information, you can
instruct him on that ground, but that has
nothing to do with any schedule we've
established.
10
MR. SMITH:
Well, without addressing
11
the last point, that would be my concern that
12
the witness could do that.
13
not going to instruct the witness at any time
14
today because I don't have that authority, but I
15
can assert the privilege as a concern that we
16
have over addressing these redacted parts of
17
this memo and we do that.
18
MR. WILSON:
19
MR. LOWE:
20
And therefore -- I'm
All right.
Can you restate your
question for us, please?
21
MR. WILSON:
Well, let me have the
22
question back to make sure that Mr. Smith is
23
going to assert that the county has a privilege
24
that would interfere with this answer, and then
25
I'll pose a question after that.
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Page 58
1
(Whereupon, the question was read.)
MR. SMITH:
I'm asserting the
privilege objection to it.
MR. LOWE:
The question specifically
says don't reveal any privilege.
MR. WILSON:
It does, and the witness
has said he believes that he can, he's a pretty
experienced attorney, describe the subject
matter without revealing any privileged
10
information and that's what the Federal Rules
11
require one to do, but if the county's insisting
12
that -- I understand, Mr. Lowe, that you need to
13
protect your client and if the county is making
14
an objection, however unreasonable, the prudent
15
thing to do is to instruct your witness not to
16
answer.
17
MR. LOWE:
Thank you.
We'll have to
18
be prudent and direct him not to answer then,
19
although I also disagree with the validity of
20
the objection.
21
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Do you recall
22
whether item six has anything to do with the
23
county bankruptcy?
24
A.
I recall that.
25
Q.
And does it?
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Page 59
1
A.
No.
Q.
Do you recall whether item six has
anything to do with the resolution of
organization?
A.
I -- no.
Q.
You don't recall whether it does or
you do recall and it doesn't have anything to do
with it?
A.
The latter.
10
Q.
Do you recall whether item six
11
concerns an alleged performance deficiency on
12
your part?
13
A.
I recall.
14
Q.
And does it?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Do you recall whether item six,
In my judgment, no.
17
whether you discussed item six with
18
Commissioners Carrington and Little-Brown during
19
the meeting you had on April 2nd?
20
A.
I do recall that I did.
21
Q.
Do you recall whether Commissioner
22
Carrington or Commissioner Little-Brown
23
indicated that they were mistaken, or
24
Commissioner Carrington was mistaken about
25
whatever he wrote concerning item number six.
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Page 60
1
2
MR. SMITH:
I'm sorry, I need to hear
that again.
read.)
MR. SMITH:
I'm going to
have to confer for a second.
7
8
I'm sorry.
MR. WILSON:
We don't even know what
the subject of item six is.
(Whereupon, an off-the-record
10
discussion was had.)
11
MR. SMITH:
Well, the question
12
about -- of whether the commissioners said they
13
were mistaken in item six where item six is
14
redacted entirely, we object to that as invading
15
the privilege.
16
where we have redacted based on privilege
17
paragraph six, we think that this question
18
requires assertion of privilege.
19
I don't know the answer, but
MR. LOWE:
Just so I'm clear, you're
20
saying any answer he may give you regarding
21
questions about item number six would
22
necessarily involve privileged information and
23
therefore you object, so therefore I should
24
direct him not to answer?
25
you're saying.
1-800-325-3376
That sounds like what


Page 61
1
MR. SMITH:
Well, I mean, I have to
leave directions to the witness to you
entirely.
MR. LOWE:
Right, but I want to make
sure you're saying any answer he gives with
regard to questions to number six you feel would
be -- would reveal privilege?
8
9
MR. SMITH:
No, I have already
allowed a couple of questions about six to be
10
answered, and so I'm trying to go one question
11
at a time and be as careful as I know how to
12
be.
13
asserting the privilege where we should, then I
14
know we'll hear that there's been a waiver and
15
-- at least assume that would be a part of what
16
course these issues run.
17
doing the best I know how to be selective and
18
exercise the best judgment I'm capable of.
19
that one question, yes, we'll assert the
20
privilege as to that potential response.
You know, the risk is on us if we aren't
21
MR. WILSON:
And so on the fly I'm
So
So to be clear, you're
22
going to assert that the county has a privilege
23
that prevents me from knowing, without knowing
24
what item six was, whether there was any
25
retraction during subsequent discussion about
1-800-325-3376


Page 62
1
item six, even though I don't know what it is?
MR. SMITH:
Well, I have to
acknowledge that that's an interesting question
and one that I can't say I'm not perplexed a
little by, but I can envision scenarios where
asking questions around and about it where the
essence of it, the heart of it is privileged
material, invades that -- you know, inevitably
provides that information.
10
I know to do on that one question.
11
12
MR. WILSON:
Okay.
MR. LOWE:
14
MR. WILSON:
15
MR. LOWE:
My hands are tied.

Yeah.
Understood.
I instruct him not to
answer.
17
18
So I assume there
is then an instruction?
13
16
So -- so that's what
MR. WILSON:
Q.
Understood.
(BY MR. WILSON)
When you received
19
the memorandum, April 2 memorandum, did anyone
20
tell you that it was -- contained
21
attorney/client privileged information?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Did anyone tell you that it contained
24
25
attorney work product information?

A.
1-800-325-3376
No.


Page 63
1
Q.
Did you have an understanding that
the April 2nd memorandum prepared by -- well,
sent by Mr. Carrington, authored by
Mr. Carrington, was prepared in anticipation of
litigation?
A.
No.
Q.
During the conversation you had with
Commissioner Carrington and Commissioner
Little-Brown, did either of them tell you that
10
information in the April 2nd memorandum was
11
attorney/client privileged?
12
MR. SMITH:
Objection.
To the extent
13
that these questions -- I'm trying not to
14
intrude, I assure you, but where these questions
15
are did your client, Mr. Sewell's client, talk
16
to him about the privilege in a communication,
17
then -- which I acknowledge would be, you know,
18
often it's the lawyer who brings up the
19
privilege more than the client, but it could be
20
either way, that the questions about whether
21
they raised or asserted or invoked the privilege
22
for these conversations I think would be
23
privileged.
24
25
MR. WILSON:
All right.
So I take it
your -- I understand your objection is one of
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Page 64
1
privilege.
2
3
MR. SMITH:
And I mean it to refer
back to these last three or four questions.
MR. WILSON:
So that you don't want
me -- well, you believe I'm not entitled to
inquire as to whether anyone -- well,
Mr. Carrington or Mrs. Little-Brown said that
the memorandum was privileged?
MR. SMITH:
10
We want to be careful.
We'll confer about it.
11
MR. WILSON:
12
13
had, 11:29 a.m. - 11:41 a.m.)
14
MR. SMITH:
15
Okay.
Could we have the
question read back?
16
17
MR. SMITH:
Object on privileged
18
discussions between the attorney and the client
19
about the privilege.
20
MR. WILSON:
21
MR. LOWE:
Okay.
Although that's not the
22
question that was asked, I'll direct you not to
23
answer out of an abundance of caution.
24
25
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Mr. Sewell, did
anyone tell you that the April 2nd letter, that
1-800-325-3376


Page 65
1
you were expected to keep it confidential?
A.
No.
Q.
When you went to the committee
hearing on April 12, did you feel free to
discuss its contents if you so chose?
A.
Sure.
Q.
Up till yesterday, did you have any
reason to believe that the April 2nd memorandum
from Mr. Carrington was something that you
10
couldn't tell other people about?
11
12
MR. SMITH:
legal conclusion from the witness.
13
14
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
16
MR. LOWE:
18
I think that's just a
form objection.
15
17
Objection, calls for a
Yeah, it is.
It sounds like it.
It
wasn't a privilege objection, so you can answer.

A.
Would you repeat it?
19
MR. LOWE:
I'm sorry?
20
THE WITNESS:
21
22
MR. LOWE:
Repeat it.
You can answer that.
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
25
when you read the --
first read the April 2nd, 2013 memorandum, did
1-800-325-3376


Page 66
1
you understand that the -- Mr. Carrington was
seeking legal advice from you?
A.
I did not understand that.
Q.
When you met with Mr. Carrington and
Mrs. Little-Brown that afternoon, April 2nd, did
you understand that they were seeking legal
advice from you in the course of your
discussion?
MR. SMITH:
Objection.
And the
10
question, by seeking legal advice, do you mean
11
to include covering privileged matters?
12
13
14
MR. WILSON:
No, I think I've asked
something different.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Did you understand
15
that the purpose of them having a conversation
16
with you was to seek legal advice?
17
A.
18
I'm -- that's a yes or no answer?

MR. SMITH:
I just have to note on
19
the record that if the conversation involved
20
matters that are privileged, then the privilege
21
objection is still properly asserted whether the
22
purpose was to seek legal advice or not if there
23
is a privileged matter being -- that is the
24
subject.
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. WILSON:
I think you're


Page 67
1
addressing a question I haven't asked.
MR. SMITH:
Well, I'm -- you know,
the deposition is something that I would like to
have addressed more in advance.
I've been working on your document production,
I'm doing the best that I'm capable of of
hearing questions for the first time and making
judgments about privilege.
obstruct.
I've got --
I'm not trying to
I -- I would like to see this
10
finished as well, but I've got the
11
responsibility to assert the privilege where it
12
may apply because I would be irresponsible if I
13
didn't.
14
MR. WILSON:
Okay.
But I still don't
15
understand whether as to this question you were
16
doing so or not.
17
MR. SMITH:
18
MR. WILSON:
Well -You just need to say the
19
word privilege, and then we know what Mr. Lowe
20
will do, or don't say it and then we know what
21
he'll do.
22
MR. SMITH:
Well, we can do it that
23
way.
I've been trying to articulate some
24
grounds because it seemed more appropriate to
25
allow you to fashion a different question, but,
1-800-325-3376


Page 68
1
no, I can just start saying privilege.
MR. WILSON:
No, that isn't exactly
my point.
so far with regard to this question, I don't
actually know which -- what you're saying.
6
7
It's that whatever it is you've said
MR. SMITH:
I'm objecting -- I'm
sorry.
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
Go ahead.
No, no.
Sorry.
What I'm doing
10
my best to do is object by asserting the
11
privilege where the phrase "seeking legal
12
advice" has potential ambiguity and where other
13
elements of privilege, like work product or
14
references to privileged communications that are
15
provided in a document between the client and
16
the lawyer may be protected.
17
I haven't heard the questions before, I'm
18
hearing them now and I'm doing my best to --
19
MR. WILSON:
20
MR. SMITH:
21
MR. WILSON:
22
23
And so, you know,
That's what lawyers do.

I know.
All right.
Let me try a
different question.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
What did you
24
understand was the purpose of your meeting with
25
Mr. Carrington and Mrs. Little-Brown?
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Page 69
1
2
MR. SMITH:
I'm sorry, what was the
purpose of what?
MR. WILSON:
was the purpose of meeting them.
MR. SMITH:
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
8
9
10
A.
What did he understand
Meeting?
Yeah.
No objection.
To discuss the items in the April 2nd
letter from Carrington to me.

Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Did you understand
11
that there was any other purpose going into the
12
meeting?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Was there discussion about anything
15
other than the items in the memo during the
16
course of your conversation with Commissioners
17
Carrington and Little-Brown?
18
A.
Probably.
19
Q.
Was there any discussion with them
20
that concerned issues other than alleged
21
performance deficiencies?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Were those other issues not mentioned
24
25
in the April 2nd memo?

A.
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They were not.


Page 70
1
2
Q.
issues you discussed?
3
4
MR. SMITH:
Objection to the extent
that response provides privileged information.
5
6
Can you describe generally the other
MR. LOWE:
You'll have to use your
judgment on that one.

A.
I can describe them.
And I don't --
they don't -- I don't recall that any of the
other topics had anything to do with any of the
10
county's litigation or legal advice or legal
11
strategy.
12
about various things and unrelated to my job
13
performance, unrelated to this memo and
14
unrelated to the county's legal issues.
15
16
Q.
It was more a personal discussion
(BY MR. WILSON)
That's fine.
We can
leave it at that.
17
During your discussion with
18
Commissioners Little-Brown and Carrington, did
19
either of them tell you that you should keep
20
confidential what you had discussed?
21
A.
That's a yes or no question?
22
Q.
That's a yes or no.
23
MR. SMITH:
No objection.
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
BY MR. WILSON)
1-800-325-3376
Now, after April 2nd,


Page 71
1
were you at some point placed on administrative
leave?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you recall when that happened?
A.
The morning of April the 8th.
Q.
And did you receive a written
notification?
A.
9
10
MR. WILSON:
MR. ADELSTEIN:
MR. WILSON:
It's a single page.
Let
me identify it, Jay.
15
MR. ADELSTEIN:
16
MR. WILSON:
17
How many pages is
that exhibit?
13
14
I'm going to mark as
Sewell Exhibit 3 --
11
12
I did.
I think I have it.
Well, that's not going
to help me.
18
It's a single-page letter from David
19
Carrington to Jeff Sewell dated April 8, 2013.
20
(Whereupon, Sewell Exhibit 3 was
21
22
23
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Let me show you
24
what's been marked as Exhibit 3.
25
recognize that document?
1-800-325-3376
And do you


Page 72
1
A.
I do.
Q.
What is it?
A.
It is a letter or memo -- letter, I
guess, from David Carrington to me dated April
the 8th, 2013, subject, administrative leave
with pay.
Q.
When did you receive this?
A.
Approximately probably 8:45 that
morning.
10
Q.
Under what circumstance?
11
A.
As I was stepping out of my vehicle
12
in the secure parking area under the county
13
courthouse I was met by the county's HR
14
director, human resources director, Demetrius
15
Taylor, and an armed security guard, and she
16
handed me the -- this letter.
17
Q.
She, Ms. Taylor?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Do you know who the armed security
20
guard was?
21
A.
22
county.
23
Q.
24
25
I do.
Long-term employee of the
And he's employed as a security
guard?
A.
1-800-325-3376
I think he still is, I --


Page 73
1
Q.
Well, he was at the time?
A.
He was at the time, he was in uniform
with a gun.
4
5
Q.
Do you think that was an appropriate
way to put you on administrative leave?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you pose any security threat to
the county?
A.
I don't think so.
10
Q.
And at the time you didn't think you
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
Were you taken aback?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
If you look at Exhibit 3, it starts
11
did?
16
out, in my capacity as your appointing authority
17
I'm placing you on administrative leave with pay
18
effective immediately until further notice.
19
20
21
22
23
Was Commissioner Carrington your

appointing authority?
A.
Depends on what source of law you
look at.
Q.
If you look at the resolution of
24
organization dated November 10th, 2010, is
25
Commissioner Carrington your appointing
1-800-325-3376


Page 74
1
2
authority?
A.
Under that document, that document
designated him, I believe, and I would need to
refresh myself on that, because I think that
document in one of its forms designated me as
appointing authority.
look at that, but I'm not certain under Alabama
law, a single commissioner would be an
appointing authority over the county attorney,
10
11
I need to go back and
despite what a resolution might say.

Q.
Do you recall whether the resolution
12
of organization dated November 10th, 2010 says
13
that the county attorney shall report to the
14
county commission as a whole?
15
16
17
A.
I do recall that.
That would be
consistent with Alabama law.

Q.
When you were placed on
18
administrative leave on April the 8th, did you
19
have any question in your own mind about the
20
validity of Commissioner Carrington's action?
21
A.
I did.
22
Q.
And did you express that to the
23
commission during the committee meeting on April
24
12th, 2013?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
Yes.


Page 75
1
Q.
Did Ms. Taylor, when she gave you the
letter that's been marked as Exhibit 3, tell you
that it was confidential?
A.
I do not believe so, no.
Q.
And when you received it, did you
believe you were free to disclose it as you saw
fit?
A.
Yes.
Q.
During the -- during your discussion
10
with Commissioners Carrington and Little-Brown
11
on April 2nd, do you recall there being any
12
discussion about the bankruptcy?
13
A.
Indirectly, yes.
Briefly.
14
Q.
Do you recall whether that discussion
15
concerned any suggestion that you had not
16
performed your duties in an acceptable manner?
17
A.
18
No.
MR. SMITH:
Objection.
Assert
19
privilege on any discussion between you and your
20
client about the bankruptcy proceedings.
21
MR. WILSON:
22
MR. LOWE:
23
He had already answered,
so if he wants to move to strike it later --
24
25
All right.
MR. SMITH:
He had answered?
I didn't hear what he said.
1-800-325-3376


Page 76
1
MR. LOWE:
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
actually.
MR. WILSON:
MR. LOWE:
better than he can.
I thought I said no,
Q.
He said no.
Yeah, I can't hear any
(BY MR. WILSON)
When you look back
at Exhibit 3, the April 8th letter, were you
expecting it or were you expecting to be placed
10
on administrative leave with pay when you
11
arrived at work?
12
A.
Absolutely not.
13
Q.
When you received and read the
14
letter, did you have any understanding of why
15
you were being placed on administrative leave
16
with pay?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
When you received and read the
19
letter, did you have any understanding that it
20
related to the bankruptcy in any way?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
At some point, did you come to
23
understand that Commissioner Carrington believed
24
that the basis for placing you on administrative
25
leave with pay was related to the bankruptcy?
1-800-325-3376


Page 77
1
A.
No.
Q.
Did Commissioner Carrington ever tell
you why you had been placed on administrative
leave with pay?
A.
No.
Q.
Did any of the commissioners ever
tell you why you had been placed on
administrative leave with pay?
A.
No.
10
Q.
Did any of them ever tell you why you
11
had been met with an armed security guard?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
Did Mr. Taylor have any explanation
14
for the basis of placing you on administrative
15
leave with pay?
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
To this day, do you have any
18
understanding of why you were placed on
19
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
At the April 12th, 2013 committee --
22
A.
Let me -- let me correct my answer.
23
Q.
All right.
24
A.
I don't have an understanding, I have
25
a theory, but I don't have an understanding.
1-800-325-3376


Page 78
1
Q.
theory.
Well, let me ask you for your
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
His theory?
If you think it involves
revealing privileged information you shouldn't
do that, but --
MR. SMITH:
The question was
incomplete.
You were asking for his theory on
why he was placed on administrative --
10
11
MR. WILSON:
12
MR. SMITH:
Correct.
And in itself the
13
question is one thing if the answer involves
14
privileged information.
15
MR. LOWE:
We can only listen.
And I trust that if he
16
unintentionally reveals something you will alert
17
us to that and move to strike or whatever.
18
my understanding that this deposition is subject
19
to a confidentiality agreement anyway, so
20
nothing should leave this room.
21
answer that question without knowingly revealing
22
some privileged -- attorney/client privileged
23
information or work product, or anything of that
24
nature, then you can answer it.
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
All right.
It's
So if you can
You had originally asked


Page 79
1
me if I had an understanding and I -- no one has
expressed to me why I was placed on leave with
pay, but the theory that I have is fairly
obvious that it was that placing me on leave
with pay was a -- was a reaction to the April
2nd memo.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
April 12, 2013 county commission administrative
services committee meeting that you attended,
10
Commissioner Carrington stated that you were
11
placed on administrative leave with pay because
12
a majority of the commissioners felt he had not
13
acted in the best interests of his client, the
14
county, in bankruptcy settlement negotiations
15
with our creditors?
16
A.
I don't -- that was a multi-hour
17
meeting.
I don't recall those exact words.
18
not saying he didn't say that, I just don't
19
recall it.
I'm
20
Q.
21
or not?
22
A.
Not really.
23
Q.
Not really?
24
A.
I'm not saying that it wasn't said, I
25
Do you recall anything to that effect
just don't remember.
1-800-325-3376
That was a long meeting.


Page 80
1
Q.
Right, right.
Prior to the April
12th, 2013 meeting, had any of the commissioners
told you that they felt you had not acted in the
best interests of the county in the bankruptcy
settlement negotiations?
A.
No.
Q.
Do you recall Commissioner Carrington
saying at that April 12th meeting that on
December 11th, 2012, during the first afternoon
10
of an intense three-day negotiating session with
11
a significant number of our creditors in New
12
York City, Mr. Sewell instructed our outside
13
counsel to stop negotiations, even though
14
Commissioner Stephens and I were present and
15
actively involved and some progress was being
16
made?
17
A.
18
effect.
19
Q.
I recall him saying words to that
Let me see if we can play you
20
something again from the audio recording of that
21
committee meeting, see if you can identify the
22
speaker.
23
(PLAYING RECORDING)
24
On December the 11th, 2012, during
25
the first afternoon of an intense three-day
1-800-325-3376


Page 81
1
negotiation session with a significant number of
our creditors in New York City, Mr. Sewell
instructed our outside counsel to stop
negotiations, even though Commissioner Stephens
and I were present and actively involved and
some progress was being made.
outside counsel convinced Mr. Sewell later that
evening that his instructions were not in the
best interests of the county and the
10
Fortunately our
negotiations proceeded for the next few days.
11
(RECORDING STOPPED.)
12
Can you identify that speaker?
13
A.
That's David Carrington.
14
Q.
Now, when representatives of the
15
county traveled to New York City in connection
16
with the bankruptcy, did they fly in private or
17
chartered planes or in commercial planes?
18
A.
I can only answer that with my own
19
experience, and my own experience would be in a
20
commercial airliner.
I don't know how -- you
21
know, I don't know.
I have an assumption they
22
traveled in commercial airliners, but I don't --
23
I don't know that.
24
25
Q.
Okay.
Do you know in late 2012, how
many nonstop commercial flights there are from
1-800-325-3376


Page 82
1
Birmingham to New York City?
A.
I don't have any judgment of that.
Q.
What time of day they leave, when
they arrive?
A.
No, I don't know.
Q.
Okay.
I just don't know.
Now, if I tell you that
Commissioner Stephens, on December 11th, 2012,
was testifying in front of Judge Smith, do you
know of any way he could get to New York City on
10
11
12
13
a commercial airline by that afternoon?

A.
He was not in New York City.
No,
there's no way.
Q.
So you think Mr. Carrington is
14
mistaken when he says that on December 11th
15
Commissioner Stephens and he were in New York
16
City negotiating about the bankruptcy?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Do you remember an incident at all
19
like the one that Mr. Carrington described that
20
you instructed cessation of negotiations?
21
A.
I would not characterize my
22
instruction as a cessation of negotiations.
23
I have memories of -- of giving instructions
24
to the outside counsel for sure.
25
Q.
1-800-325-3376
While commissioners were present


Page 83
1
negotiating?
A.
Sure.
Oh, absolutely.
In some of
those negotiations I was present and there would
be times that I would, you know, instruct or ask
or -- certainly.
Q.
And you viewed that as part of your
A.
Absolutely.
Q.
And you think you had obligations
job?
10
under the Rules of Professional Conduct to do
11
so?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
And you were using your best judgment
14
15
when you did so?

A.
16
17
18
Yes.
MR. SMITH:
Q.
Objection to leading.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Were you using your
best judgment when doing so?
19
A.
I was trying to.
20
Q.
How much time elapsed between the
21
time you sent the April 2 memo that you and
22
Mr. Lawson and lawyers from Maynard Cooper
23
authored, sent it to the commission and the time
24
when you received the performance deficiencies
25
from Mr. Carrington?
1-800-325-3376


Page 84
1
2
MR. SMITH:
Objection to the
foundation of the question.
A.
Six hours.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
You may answer.
How was the -- how
was the April 2nd memo that you co-authored
transmitted to the commission?
A.
The same way all other memos that I
send to the commission, of which there are many,
would be delivered by my former secretary, Hope
10
Cockrell.
She would have taken it around in an
11
envelope and put it in each commissioner's
12
office, or probably in their hands, is what they
13
preferred.
14
Q.
So it was received in paper form?
15
A.
Yes, and in their hand.
16
Q.
And I think you testified that the
17
performance deficiencies memo that you received
18
was sitting on your desk or chair when you
19
returned from lunch?
20
21
22
A.
It was about two o'clock that
afternoon.
Q.
It was a late lunch.

Now, do you recall telling the
23
commissioners at the committee hearing on April
24
12th that at the end of your meeting with
25
Commissioner Carrington and Commissioner
1-800-325-3376


Page 85
1
Little-Brown, Commissioner Carrington said he
wanted to think about your request that he
withdraw the memorandum he had written?
4
5
A.
He wanted to -- he wanted to -- well,
I'll pause for an objection here.
MR. SMITH:
I'm sorry.
The question
was does he recall what Commissioner Carrington
said in the open hearing?
MR. WILSON:
10
MR. SMITH:
11
MR. WILSON:
No.
No?
No.
I'm not asking
12
about anything Commissioner Carrington said
13
directly.
14
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Do you recall that
15
at the open hearing you said that at the
16
conclusion of the meeting on April 2nd with
17
Commissioners Carrington and Little-Brown when
18
you asked Commissioner Carrington to withdraw
19
the April 2nd memorandum that he had written
20
about your performance deficiencies, he said he
21
wanted to sleep on it?
22
23
24
25
A.
I do recall words to that effect,
Q.
And did that in fact happen?
yes.
Did
Mr. Carrington at the end of the meeting on the
1-800-325-3376


Page 86
1
2nd of April say he wanted to sleep on your
request to withdraw the performance deficiencies
memo?
4
5
6
7
8
MR. LOWE:
A.
He did.
You can answer that.

It was not -- it was not
just my request.
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
It was who else's
request?
A.
The other person in the room.
10
Q.
Commissioner Little-Brown?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
You also -- do you recall telling the
13
committee that you had prepared a written
14
response?
15
A.
I think I recall that.
16
Q.
Do you still have a copy of the
17
18
19
20
21
written response?
A.
That I don't know.
I don't have it
with me.
Q.
Did you ever share the written
response with anyone?
22
A.
I don't think so.
23
Q.
When you made remarks to the
24
committee, were you reading in part from the
25
written response?
1-800-325-3376


Page 87
1
A.
No, I was not.
The written -- I did
draft a written response but I was never able to
deliver it.
That was my -- I had said I would wait till
April the 8th, but I never got in the building
that day.
7
8
Q.
I was waiting until April the 8th.
Where did you prepare the written
response?
A.
On a laptop.
10
Q.
In your office?
11
A.
No.
12
office.
13
don't -- I really don't remember.
14
you know, if I did it at my office I'm sure that
15
it can be retrieved from the county.
16
don't remember, but I probably would have done
17
that at home.
18
Q.
I don't have a laptop in my
I think I prepared it at home.
I may have --
I really
At the April 12th, 2013 committee
19
meeting, do you recall Commissioner Bowman
20
saying words to the effect of every question I
21
have ever had from Mr. Sewell, he was
22
forthright, frank and honest with me in
23
everything he told me.
24
occasion where he told me something misleading
25
or wrong.
1-800-325-3376
I have never had an
I trust him in his judgment.
He has


Page 88
1
had 25 years' worth of unblemished service to
this governmental body?
A.
Q.
Now, during that meeting on April
12th, 2013, what action did the administrative
services committee take?
A.
I believe that there was a vote
taken, a committee vote taken, on a resolution
that I don't recall if there was a written
10
resolution or a verbal resolution, to terminate
11
my employment.
12
four-to-one vote to do so.
I think the vote was a
13
Q.
And do you recall who the one was?
14
A.
Bowman.
15
Q.
At some point were you given the
16
chance to retire instead of being terminated?
17
18
A.
that way.
19
20
21
I was -- I wouldn't characterize it
Q.
Tell me how you would characterize
A.
Well, it was an involuntary
it.
22
retirement, it was no choice.
23
any choice at all.
24
separated, there was no -- it's like a choice
25
between, you know, bullet in the head or knife
1-800-325-3376
I was not given
It was I was going to be


Page 89
1
2
3
in the throat.
Q.
I shouldn't ask which one you picked,
I guess.
If you had -- was there something to
which you agreed that ended up avoiding a full
commission vote?
A.
That day there was no written
agreement.
I think that day the -- well, I
think it was determined, let's just say, that
10
there needed to be a written agreement which
11
would take some time to prepare, couldn't be
12
done that quickly.
13
14
Q.
Ultimately a written agreement was
prepared?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And that is one of the three
17
documents you produced?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
And did anyone tell you that you were
20
to keep that written agreement confidential?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
Is there, to your knowledge, a
23
confidentiality provision in it?
24
A.
There is not.
25
Q.
Do you feel free to share it as you
1-800-325-3376


Page 90
1
2
see fit?
A.
Sure.
MR. SMITH:
I should say that to the
extent the agreement contains a commitment on
privilege, privilege is a kind of
confidentiality, and so I would note that for
the record.
8
9
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
be clear.
All right.
Let me
I was asking about whether you, as to
10
the document itself, you believe that document
11
is something that you must maintain in
12
confidence.
13
A.
I believe it would be unlawful for me
14
to try to maintain it in confidence.
15
public record.
16
Q.
It's
Now, when you took over as county
17
attorney, were you aware that there was a
18
consent decree in place resulting in the U.S. V.
19
Jefferson County litigation?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
That the county was a party to?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
And you were aware there was -- this
24
was in late 2008, that there was an impending
25
trial on a motion for contempt?
1-800-325-3376


Page 91
1
A.
I don't recall.
I don't remember
when the contempt proceedings got underway, when
the first motion, I just don't have any memory
of that, or that I wasn't aware, but I certainly
was aware of the consent decree.
Q.
Do you remember that a trial had
started and then was suspended because of Judge
Smith's health for several years?
A.
I do, I just don't remember what
10
year.
11
remembrance of what came first, which year it
12
started.
13
I just don't have any temporal -- not
Q.
Sure.
By the time the trial resumed
14
in 2012, were you more familiar with the issues
15
involved than you had been immediately upon
16
becoming county attorney?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
When you -- say in 2012, were you
19
committed to bringing the county into compliance
20
with the consent decree?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Did you believe it was your
23
obligation to try to bring the county in
24
compliance with the consent decree?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
Yes.


Page 92
1
2
Q.
You understood the consent decree was
an order of the court?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you believe you have a
professional obligation to give advice to your
client, even if it is advice that your client
might not want to hear?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you think you have any special
10
obligations in view of the fact that your client
11
when you were county attorney was an
12
organization rather than an individual?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And do the Alabama Rules of
15
Professional Conduct address that?
16
A.
They do.
17
Q.
And did you raise that with the
18
administrative services committee on the 12th of
19
April, 2013?
20
A.
I did.
21
Q.
Did you quote from Professional Rule
22
of Conduct 1.13?
23
A.
I believe so.
24
Q.
And the advisory committee?
25
A.
I believe I did.
1-800-325-3376


Page 93
1
Q.
Do you remember telling them
something to the effect of that the rule --
rules comment reads, in a matter involving the
conduct of government officials a government
lawyer may have the authority to question such
conduct more extensively than that of a lawyer
for a private organization in a similar
circumstance?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And do you recall telling the county
11
commissioners on April 12th, 2013 that it was
12
your job to notify you if I think any of you are
13
drifting away from following the law or if a
14
county document needs to be changed, and I do
15
believe it needs to be changed?
16
A.
I recall that.
17
Q.
What document were you talking about
18
when you said I do believe it needs to be
19
changed?
20
21
22
A.
The document that was changed last
week, the resolution of organization.

Q.
When you say it was changed last
23
week, your understanding is the county adopted a
24
new resolution of organization?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
Yeah.
I have not read it, but I read


Page 94
1
a newspaper article that it had occurred last
week -- I believe it was last week.
3
4
Q.
Is that new resolution of
organization a public document?
A.
Yes.
Q.
So any citizen could acquire it?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Could request it and obtain it?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
You haven't read it?
11
A.
I have not.
12
Q.
Now, in your April 2nd memorandum you
13
were proposing a change to the resolution of
14
organization; is that correct?
15
MR. LOWE:
16
Do we have an objection to
that?
17
MR. SMITH:
Yeah.
Are you about to
18
be on this for a minute, resolution, that
19
process?
20
MR. WILSON:
21
MR. SMITH:
I don't know.
All right.
Without a
22
clear answer, then, I'd like to talk, I'd like
23
to confer for a minute about --
24
MR. WILSON:
25
1-800-325-3376
Sure.


Page 95
1
had, 12:18 p.m. - 12:32 p.m.)
MR. SMITH:
Can you -- was there a
question that was at the very end?
read.)
MR. SMITH:
The beginning of that was
and in your April 2nd memorandum you were
proposing?
10
11
MR. SMITH:
privilege.
12
13
We object and assert
MR. LOWE:
Then I must direct him not
to answer.
14
MR. WILSON:
15
MR. SMITH:
Okay.
This is the April 2nd
16
memo that we've been talking about.
17
more than one April 2nd memo; right?
18
19
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
MR. WILSON:
That's the one we're
talking about.
24
25
Yes, and that's the
one --
22
23
There's only one that he
authored.
20
21
There is
MR. SMITH:
Q.
1-800-325-3376
All right.
(BY MR. WILSON)
So --


Page 96
1
April 12 committee meeting telling the
commissioners, I can't violate Alabama law
because one commissioner tells me who I can't
talk to and we can't have a situation where one
commissioner is trying to control information to
the four of you and control your access to the
county's lawyers?
A.
Yes, I recall that.
Q.
Who is the one commissioner you were
10
talking about?
11
A.
Carrington.
12
Q.
Did you also tell the commissioners
13
that you believe that in 1997 when the
14
commission was voting on the sewer debt, that
15
you believed that several of them didn't know
16
what they were voting on?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
And do you recall telling them at the
19
April 12th meeting that you believed that when
20
the commissioners were voting in 2002, 2003 on
21
the refinancing of the sewer debt, that several
22
of them didn't know what they were voting on?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
And particular commissioners that you
25
called out by name were ones who had ended up
1-800-325-3376


Page 97
1
convicted of felonies?
A.
Some of them.
Q.
And did you say at the April 12th,
2013 meeting with reference to the memo that you
wrote on April 2nd that you were determined you
were not going to see that mistake made again?
A.
I believe that I said that.
Q.
Do you think there is any connection
between the Martin-Bryant plaintiffs' noticing
10
of your deposition and the recent amendment to
11
the resolution of organization?
12
MR. LOWE:
Does that ask him to
13
speculate as to what your intentions were in
14
noticing his deposition?
15
MR. WILSON:
16
MR. LOWE:
17
I'm sorry.
What --
I'm not real clear on
that.
18
19
No.
MR. WILSON:
Q.
Sure.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Do you have any --
20
do you have any view as to whether the fact of
21
the receipt of notice for your deposition
22
influenced the county in its decision to adopt a
23
new resolution of organization?
24
MR. SMITH:
25
speculation.
1-800-325-3376
Objection, calls for
And if it involves privilege, then


Page 98
1
I have an objection, but I don't know.
2
3
MR. WILSON:
Well, I think the notice
came after his termination.
MR. LOWE:
Yeah, it is asking him to
speculate, but he can speculate.
MR. WILSON:
objection, so --
8
9
Well, it's a form
MR. LOWE:
I mean, it's a form
objection, you're correct.
10
A.
I have such a speculation, yes.
11
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
12
to you?
13
A.
When did that occur
When I learned of the effort to go
14
and -- to amend the resolution of organization,
15
I think I heard of it in the media, yeah, that
16
occurred to me.
17
Q.
Sometime in the last couple of weeks?
18
A.
Yeah.
19
Q.
Now, thinking back over your
20
testimony today, is there anything as to which
21
you've testified that you would not like to have
22
in the public record?
23
24
A.
Let me talk to Clay about that for a
moment if I may.
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. WILSON:
Of course.


Page 99
1
THE WITNESS:
Let me, before we go,
in the public record, you mean in the federal
court trial --
4
5
MR. WILSON:
Yeah, unfiled, unsealed
in federal court.
THE WITNESS:
MR. LOWE:
THE WITNESS:
10
MR. LOWE:
You think is legally
MR. WILSON:
No, no, I'm not asking
about legally, just his own personal --
14
15
Not like.
improper or confidential?
12
13
That he would like or that
is --
11
Okay.
MR. LOWE:
Just his own personal
belief?
16
MR. WILSON:
Yes.
Is there anything
17
here that you would say to yourself, gee, if I
18
could avoid having this filed in federal court,
19
that would be better for me?
20
THE WITNESS:
21
22
had, 12:36 p.m. - 12:40 p.m.)
23
THE WITNESS:
24
Give me just a minute.
Could you repeat the
question one more time?
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. WILSON:
Sure, sure.


Page 100
1
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
Thinking about your
testimony today, is there any portion of it that
you would prefer not be available to the public
by way of a file in Federal Court?
A.
No.
Q.
Let me go back to ask you for a
moment about the April 2, 2013 performance
deficiencies memorandum.
MR. LOWE:
10
Q.
11
2.
12
valid?
Exhibit 2.
(BY MR. WILSON)
I think it's Exhibit
Do you believe any of these criticisms is
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Did you tell Commissioner Carrington
15
and Commissioner Little-Brown that?
16
A.
I did.
17
Q.
And did you ask Commissioner
18
Carrington to withdraw this?
19
A.
I did.
20
Q.
And did Commissioner Little-Brown ask
21
22
the same thing?

A.
23
24
She did.
MR. WILSON:
I have nothing further.
Thank you for your time.
25
1-800-325-3376
THE WITNESS:
You're welcome.


Page 101
1
2
MR. WILSON:
United States has any.
3
4
I don't know if the
MR. ADELSTEIN:
The United States
does not have any questions.
MR. SMITH:
We're going to have a lot
of questions and we'd like to talk about what --
what is best for doing that efficiently.
suggest we take a lunch break and if there is a
preferred idea, I'm happy to talk about it.
10
11
MR. WILSON:
That's -- I have nothing
to say.
12
13
MR. SMITH:
You have -- does that
mean you don't have any problem with that?
14
MR. WILSON:
I'm here, the deposition
15
has been noticed, you have a right to
16
cross-examine and everybody's probably hungry,
17
but it's not my witness.
18
stay for your questions or I can leave.
19
MR. SMITH:
20
MR. LOWE:
21
MR. SMITH:
My option is I can
Indeed.
Do we have that option?
Well, in any event, if
22
it's reasonable, how about taking an hour and be
23
back at a quarter till?
24
MR. WILSON:
25
MR. LOWE:
1-800-325-3376
Is that okay?
Okay here.
I don't think we have any


Page 102
1
choice.
MR. MURRILL:
There will be no
questions for the sheriff's office.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
Could you repeat what
time you would like to reconvene?
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
(Whereupon, a lunch recess was
had, 12:42 p.m. - 1:46 p.m.)
10
1:45 Central.
MR. SMITH:
Thanks.
Thank you very much for
11
the break, and I'll start with my questions.
12
Initially let me say -- and I will
13
refer to you as Mr. Sewell -- that based on this
14
morning's testimony I've reviewed what I intend
15
to cover and I'm going to try to make my best
16
judgment about what to cover.
17
intention to elicit any privileged information
18
from you, so if you would, please, remember your
19
independent responsibility, and if there is a
20
question that would draw privileged information
21
out I'd ask that you raise this issue and we
22
will revolve it as best we can before you
23
answer.
24
25
1-800-325-3376
It's not my
Is that okay?
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
EXAMINATION


Page 103
1
BY MR. SMITH:
Q.
While you worked for Jefferson
County, the county was at all times the client
in your attorney/client relationship; is that
right?
MR. LOWE:
Well, that's vague and
overbroad.
client, what are you talking about?
9
10
11
12
The only client, the client, a
MR. SMITH:
I think I said it was
always the client.

Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
It was the client,
wasn't it?
13
A.
It was a client.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
A.
The general retirement system, the
And who were the others?
16
county, the election commission, probate judges,
17
tax collectors, tax assessors, coroners.
18
19
MR. LOWE:
And those are just what he
recalls at the moment.
20
A.
Right.
21
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
But as between -- in
22
terms of your work for the county, the Jefferson
23
County Commission was the voice of the county as
24
your client; is that right?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
Not necessarily.
The Jefferson


Page 104
1
County Commission is the governing body of the
county.
Q.
And --
A.
But you have -- today you have county
managers, you have other -- you have department
heads, you have other elected officials.
don't think it's as simple as --
8
9
MR. LOWE:
Yeah.
I think we could
term that as a legal question, too, although
10
he's certainly qualified to answer legal
11
questions perhaps.
12
situation?
13
and I think we both know that the entity itself
14
is the client, not the individual or collective
15
commission.
16
Q.
But who's the client in that
That's a legal question and it --
(BY MR. SMITH)
Throughout your time
17
at the county, Jefferson County was your
18
employer; is that right?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
And your service in the capacity of
21
county attorney only existed by virtue of that
22
employment as an employee there; is that right?
23
24
25
A.
question.
Q.
1-800-325-3376
I don't think I understand your

I mean -Were you ever hired as outside


Page 105
1
counsel?
A.
By Jefferson County?
Q.
By Jefferson County.
A.
No.
Q.
So all of your service as an attorney
of Jefferson County was in the capacity as an
employee; is that right?
8
9
10
11
12
A.
I think that would be right -- as
opposed to a contractor?
Q.
As opposed to outside counsel or
non-employees?
A.
Yeah.
That would be -- I think so.
13
MR. SMITH:
14
THE REPORTER:
15
continue the numbering?
16
17
MR. SMITH:
Mark that as an exhibit.

Do you want to
No, I'll make that County
1, if that's okay.
18
(Whereupon, County Exhibit 1 was
19
20
21
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Is this the
22
resolution of organization that was in place in
23
Jefferson County from November 10th, 2010 until
24
July 25th of this year?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
It appears to be.


Page 106
1
Q.
And what are the provisions that
establish your position or your place in the
organization?
A.
I'm sorry, repeat that.
Q.
What part of the resolution provides
6
7
for your place in the organization?

A.
Paragraph -- excuse me, page four,
midway down the page has the sentence, the
at-will county attorney shall report to the
10
commission as a whole.
11
referring to?
12
Q.
Is that what you're
Well, that's what I see as a
13
provision that has you placed in the
14
organization.
15
meaning the county attorney?
16
17
18
19
20
A.
Are there any others -- you
Well, I'm not the county attorney
anymore, but -Q.
No, I -- my questions relate to when
you were.
A.
The -- I think the term county
21
attorney is mentioned in several other places in
22
that document.
23
read the document?
24
25
Q.
I have not sat -- you want me to
Do you agree that you were an at-will
employee?
1-800-325-3376


Page 107
1
A.
Of Jefferson County?
Q.
Of Jefferson County.
A.
Yes.
Q.
And is there any provision in the
resolution of organization -- strike that.
Is the president of the commission
the appointing authority of the legal
department?
A.
This document suggests that the
10
answer to that question would be yes, would
11
serve as an appointing authority over the county
12
attorney's office.
13
14
Q.
And when this document was approved,
you were the county attorney?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
I believe there were questions asked
17
earlier about an issue of your compensation in
18
October, November 2012.
19
asked about that?
Do you remember being
20
A.
I do.
21
Q.
And my memory of your testimony, and
22
to some extent my notes, were that Commissioner
23
Carrington made a statement quoted in the media
24
that was favorable toward your contribution to
25
the county.
1-800-325-3376
Is that an accurate paraphrase?


Page 108
1
A.
I think so.
Q.
Let me give you what I've marked as
County 2.
you.
And I don't mean to throw that at
A.
That's okay.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
Excuse me, could you
tell me how many pages it is and what the title
of the document is?
10
11
12
13
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
You've got County
Exhibit 2 there?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Is that a newspaper article from
16
AL.com, October 18?
17
MR. LOWE:
Are you asking him to
18
authenticate an AL.com article or comment on the
19
hearsay contained therein, or where are we going
20
with this?
21
MR. SMITH:
Well, it's similar to
22
Sewell 1, which was, you know, an article from
23
AL.com.
24
it.
25
1-800-325-3376
So I'm not asking him to authenticate
MR. LOWE:
Okay.


Page 109
1
2
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Did you read this
article?
A.
Probably.
Q.
And as I understood earlier, you read
some of the media coverage at that time because
you were familiar with Mr. Carrington's
statement?
8
9
10
A.
Well, I was -- I was in the meeting
present when the statement was made.

Q.
And so was this a topic at the county
11
courthouse in the legal department, your -- your
12
demand for a pay increase in October of 2012?
13
MR. WILSON:
14
MR. LOWE:
15
A.
Objection, form.
Yeah, same objection.
It's also vague.
Is this a topic in
16
the legal department or -- I'm unclear as to
17
where exactly this was a topic.
18
about with the commission, the county in
19
general, the legal department, if you can be
20
more specific?
21
22
Q.
You talking
Sure, let me try to ask a better
question.
23
MR. ADELSTEIN:
Could I also
24
interject, could you give the date, October
25
18th, what year, and possibly the style of the
1-800-325-3376


Page 110
1
article so I can access it?
MR. SMITH:
Sure.
It's October the
18th of 2012, AL.com, the article's title is
"Jefferson County's top lawyer who makes
$375,000 could leave in dispute over pay raise."
6
7
Q.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
Thank you.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Now, when we look at
the article there has been some reference to --
there is reference, I'll read from it.
It says,
10
it is unclear when Sewell might leave, but boxes
11
in his office were packed this week and his desk
12
was clean.
13
dispute were expected to continue through next
14
week.
15
However, talks to resolve the pay
My question to you is do you regard
16
this as a cordial circumstance between you and
17
the commission, or would you regard it as more
18
of a controversy?
19
MR. LOWE:
Well, what circumstance
20
are you talking about?
21
office?
22
23
That's what you read.

MR. SMITH:
Yes, having boxed up his
office over a pay increase demand.
24
25
Having boxes in his
MR. LOWE:
That may not be his
interpretation of why there were boxes packed up
1-800-325-3376


Page 111
1
in his office.
something some reporter gleaned from a
conversation apparently with someone other than
Mr. Sewell.
Q.
the question?
A.
You're asking him to comment on
(BY MR. SMITH)
Okay.
Can you answer
I don't regard it as cordial or
confrontational.
office for 25 years, in the hallway, everywhere,
10
11
I've had boxes packed in my
just like your office.

Q.
I'm sure there were boxes somewhere,
12
but -- but is it correct that you situated your
13
office to vacate it?
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
That it was packed up?
16
A.
No, no.
17
18
If I had intended to vacate
my office, it would have been vacated.

Q.
Well, I didn't ask if you intended to
19
vacate, I was asking whether it was situated so
20
that you would be able to vacate it if you
21
didn't get the pay increase you were demanding.
22
23
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection.
I don't really follow your question.
24
If I wanted to leave the county, I could have
25
left any day.
1-800-325-3376


Page 112
1
Q.
I know that, but was your boxing up
of your office unique on this occasion compared
to the routine existence or presence of boxes in
the office?
5
6
MR. WILSON:
A.
No.
Objection to form.
The office was cleaned up.
Everyone in the office cleaned the office up.
It was a mess.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Okay.
So the media
10
coverage about your having packed this week and
11
your desk clean, the coverage indicating that
12
that was a standoff about your leaving is
13
inaccurate?
14
A.
It is greatly exaggerated, yeah.
15
Q.
And so to what extent is it true?
16
A.
I don't recall ever making a demand
17
or threatening to quit.
That is not at all
18
correct.
19
know, a media report of something that is
20
sensationalized or exaggerated.
21
will notice in the article that I've declined to
22
comment.
It's not uncommon to have a -- you
You will -- you
23
24
25
1-800-325-3376


Page 113
1
Q.
Let me show you what I'm marking as
County Exhibit 3.
you were familiar with when it was issued?
Is this press coverage that
MR. LOWE:
vague question.
more specific.
Still, that's sort of a
Did you read this article is
MR. SMITH:
And for Jay's benefit, with my
Yeah, sure.
apology, this is an article of October 19, 2012,
10
and the title is -- it's an AL.com article and
11
the title is "County Attorney's timing In
12
Demanding a raise couldn't be worse, but not as
13
bad as Kenneth Klee trying to stop the story."
14
15
16
Q.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
Thank you.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Did you read this
article on or about the day it was issued?
17
A.
I don't know.
18
Q.
As you look at it now, are you
19
familiar with it as an article from that time
20
period?
21
A.
Honestly I don't remember it, but I
22
don't -- there is -- as you know, as you're
23
learning, there is something in the paper about
24
Jefferson County every day all day.
25
read all of them.
1-800-325-3376
I don't


Page 114
1
2
Q.
And is this story related to your
demand for a pay increase?
MR. LOWE:
MR. WILSON:
MR. LOWE:
Object to form.
Objection to form.
He said he didn't demand a
pay increase.
A.
I don't think I demanded anything.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
9
10
Did you request a pay
increase?
A.
I requested an increase for everyone
11
in the county attorney's office that would be
12
compliant with the county's own resolutions that
13
set the pay scales for everyone in the office,
14
including myself, but there was no demand or
15
threat or --
16
Q.
17
18
Did your negotiation about that
include discussion about leaving?

A.
Not that I recall.
19
20
21
22
23
Q.
Let me show you what
I'm marking as County Exhibit 4.
24
25
(BY MR. SMITH)
MR. SMITH:
Jay, County Exhibit 4 is
an AL.com article dated October 23, 2012.
1-800-325-3376
The


Page 115
1
title is "Give Jefferson County lawyer Jeff
Sewell what he's asking for, a kick in the
pants."
4
5
Q.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
Thank you.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Mr. Sewell, do you
recall reading this article on or about the date
when it was issued?
8
9
10
A.
I do recall reading this article.
don't remember when, but I recall reading it.

Q.
And outside the commission, did you
11
receive criticism from members of the public
12
about your request for a pay increase to go from
13
three seventy-five to -- to something over four
14
hundred thousand?
15
MR. LOWE:
16
MR. WILSON:
17
MR. LOWE:
18
MR. SMITH:
20
MR. LOWE:
Criticism from the
Yes.
Personally?
Did they call
him, write him --
22
23
Objection to form.
public?
19
21
Object to the form.
MR. SMITH:
Those would all be
answers, those would all be responses.
24
A.
25
public?
1-800-325-3376
No, I did not.
Criticism from the


Page 116
1
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
I'm just asking if --
did you get, for example, were there web sites
that you saw where people commented negatively
on what you were requesting?
A.
Such as what?
Q.
Such as -- let me give you a second
to read this article.
the comments being made here by John Archibald,
that kind of criticism is what I'm asking
10
11
And along the lines of
about.
A.
No, not -- I mean quite to the
12
contrary.
13
including lawyers in your law firm, that this
14
should be -- the county's attorneys should be
15
paid in accordance with their -- county's
16
resolutions.
17
criticism.
18
Q.
I got lots of calls from individuals,
I wouldn't characterize that as
So other than John Archibald in this
19
article, you didn't hear criticism or negative
20
sentiment about your request from anyone else?
21
A.
I don't recall hearing it.
I mean, I
22
don't think that John Archibald and -- his
23
opinions about things are just his opinions.
24
He's entitled to his opinion.
25
to affect --
1-800-325-3376
That's not going


Page 117
1
Q.
I'm not trying to offer him as an
expert witness or a character reference for
anybody here.
with what was publicized at the time and just
wanting to know if your recollection today is
that this article was the only negative
sentiment you heard about the request you made
in October of 2012 for a pay increase from three
seventy-five to something over four hundred
10
I'm asking -- I'm presenting you
thousand in annual salary?
11
MR. WILSON:
12
A.
Objection to form.
Let me clarify your question for
13
you.
I didn't make a pay request for myself.
14
made a request of the commission that the
15
commission follow their resolution that set up
16
all of the attorneys' salaries in the county
17
attorney's office, and to treat the lawyers in
18
the county attorney's office the same way that
19
all of the other employees of Jefferson County
20
were being treated.
21
of this.
22
That's the context of all
There was no demand, there was no
23
threat.
24
given to John Archibald and how it was spun to
25
John Archibald I was not part of.
1-800-325-3376
How this got played and how this was


Page 118
1
John Archibald never called me before he wrote
this.
been a much different article or would not have
been written at all.
5
6
7
8
Had he done so, I suspect it would have
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
If he had called you,
you would have said no comment?

A.
I would have listened to what he had
to say and what his questions were.
10
11
12
Q.
All right.
And then if you could
13
look at County Exhibit 5 -- have you had a
14
chance to look at it?
15
A.
16
Yeah.
MR. SMITH:
All right.
For Jay's
17
benefit, this is an article dated November 21,
18
2012, AL.com, "Jefferson County attorney who
19
earns $375,000 to get $18,750 pay raise."
20
MR. ADELSTEIN:
21
MR. SMITH:
22
Q.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
(BY MR. SMITH)
And you were asked
23
earlier about quotations attributed to
24
Commissioner Carrington.
25
see about the middle of that first page there is
1-800-325-3376
In this article as you


Page 119
1
a quotation there that says we've completed our
evaluations of the county attorney's office and
we find their performance to be satisfactory.
Is that a statement that you heard him make in
an open forum too?
A.
Possibly.
Q.
Okay.
I don't recall.
And then there's another
quotation below that attributed to Commissioner
Carrington that says Jeff is all in, we're
10
moving forward.
11
public or in some open setting?
12
A.
Did you hear him say that in
David, I don't remember -- David
13
Smith, I don't remember if David Carrington said
14
that in a public setting or -- I just don't
15
remember.
16
Q.
Okay.
And --
17
A.
I think that he did.
I think I was
18
sitting at the bench looking at him, but I won't
19
swear to it because I just don't remember.
20
Q.
Okay.
So the public comment here is
21
that what's being -- the work being done by your
22
office is satisfactory.
23
issue -- well, beg your pardon.
24
that quotation.
25
take issue with that evaluation of being
1-800-325-3376
Is that -- did you take

We've looked at
My question to you is did you


Page 120
1
satisfactory?
A.
I don't take issue with that quote.
Q.
But was that evaluation provided at
that time?
MR. LOWE:
I object to the form.
What evaluation is there in this?
And this is
an article from Barnett Wright with AL.com; who
knows whether he's quoting correctly,
paraphrasing or what.
I mean, there's no reason
10
for us to even believe that he's accurately
11
quoting.
12
something that we don't even know whether it's
13
authentic?
So why are you asking him to validate
14
MR. SMITH:
15
MR. LOWE:
The -This isn't a quote by
16
Jeff, this is a quote presumably by David
17
Carrington who Jeff has said he doesn't recall
18
whether he made it or not.
19
MR. SMITH:
I just didn't remember
20
these objections being made this morning when
21
questions were asked about quotations that were
22
perhaps more positive.
23
MR. LOWE:
I thought you were
24
objecting, saying that it would invoke
25
privilege, and in most instances we didn't
1-800-325-3376


Page 121
1
answer them.
2
3
MR. SMITH:
applied to that question.
4
5
I don't think that
MR. LOWE:
Well, that's not what
we're talking about now.
MR. SMITH:
I'm just saying.
No, what we're talking
about now is newspaper quotations, and the
precedent in the deposition --
MR. LOWE:
Right.
And they're
10
hearsay and they're -- he's said he doesn't
11
remember being made.
12
MR. SMITH:
13
MR. LOWE:
I'm not -Look, just go on.
14
made my statement.
15
let's quit wasting time.
16
Q.
Let's go on.
(BY MR. SMITH)
I've
You're right,
Ask your questions.

Well, there's a
17
quotation here that says we've completed our
18
evaluations and we find their performance to be
19
satisfactory.
20
heard at that time?
21
22
23
A.
Is that an evaluation that you
I don't remember what I heard at what
time.
Q.
Okay.
And so as of this time frame,
24
October up to November 1st of 2012, you don't
25
remember how the commissioners evaluated the
1-800-325-3376


Page 122
1
performance of the legal department, do you?
2
3
4
5
MR. LOWE:
Q.
Or do you?
(BY MR. SMITH)
You just said you
didn't, as I heard you.

A.
You used the word evaluation.
don't recall ever seeing an evaluation or being
given an evaluation -- a written document.
Certainly no criticism of anything.
Q.
And so satisfactory would be -- you
10
wouldn't regard the satisfactory rating as being
11
in any way critical of you?
12
A.
No.
13
14
15
16
MR. SMITH:
17
Okay.
Let me show you
what I'm marking as County Exhibit 6.
18
Jay, this is a memorandum to
19
Jefferson County Commission from Jeff Sewell,
20
County Attorney, March 13, 2013, subject,
21
recommendations to reduce outside legal
22
expenses.
23
24
25
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Is this a memorandum
that you prepared?

A.
1-800-325-3376
Yes.


Page 123
1
MR. LOWE:
Let me interrupt for a
second.
deposition, are you saying this is in no way
subject to the attorney/client privilege and
that he can respond to anything in it?
By introducing this into this
MR. SMITH:
I want to ask a couple of
foundation questions.
to ask him about it until now, and so until I --
9
10
Mr. LOWE:
I haven't had the chance
Well, you have marked it
as an exhibit in this deposition.
11
MR. SMITH:
12
MR. WILSON:
I have.
I have.
You've provided it to
13
me, I'm not somebody in privity with the
14
county.
15
MR. SMITH:
16
MR. WILSON:
Correct.
And I don't think you
17
have a choice at this point, you've marked it,
18
it's on the record, it's been exposed to me, I
19
don't think you can make a claim that anything
20
in here any longer is privileged.
21
22
23
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
When you issued this,
this went to the public; isn't that right?

A.
Not by me it didn't.
If it did, it
24
was -- I mean, I recall there being a newspaper
25
article about this, so it --
1-800-325-3376


Page 124
1
Q.
issues?
A.
The subject line is recommendations
to reduce outside legal expenses.
5
6
Is this about managing budgetary
Q.
In terms of the -- the expenditure of
money on lawyers?
A.
On outside law firms.
Q.
Right.
9
10
Which is a budget matter that
requires commission action to pay the lawyers;

right?
11
A.
It requires commission action to
12
establish a budget which includes a lot of
13
things, including paying outside lawyers.
14
Q.
It would be a yes, wouldn't it?
15
A.
It would be what it is.
16
Q.
And this is all public information,
17
isn't it, the rates you're paying the lawyers?
18
A.
19
The --
20
MR. LOWE:
sure.
21
22
23
Look through it to make
A.
this.
I mean, I don't know what you mean by

The --
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
The information here
24
is -- is what's being paid by Jefferson County
25
to lawyers?
1-800-325-3376


Page 125
1
A.
The dollar amounts that are in here
are the hourly rates and such and so forth, yes,
that's all public contracts, public contracts or
public records or both.
Q.
And in providing the -- this
evaluation to the county commission, did you
have as your ultimate recommendation that the
size of the legal department under your
supervision be increased?
10
A.
That was an -- a recommendation.
11
Q.
Yes.
12
A.
Yeah.
13
Q.
That was a recommendation in
14
15
connection with the March -A.
Yes.
This memo was the result of a
16
request made to me by the commission or someone
17
on the commission as to, you know, how can we
18
reduce, what can we do to save money on the
19
outside lawyers.
20
to a request for the information.
21
Q.
This was written in response
And this is the subject of the memo
22
that's been marked earlier as Sewell Exhibit 2;
23
is that right?
The --
24
A.
I don't think I have kept that, so --
25
Q.
Item four; is that right?
1-800-325-3376
Is that


Page 126
1
2
not still over there?

A.
No.
MR. WILSON:
We'll find it.
THE WITNESS:
Which exhibit -- what's the date?
Which one is that?
Q.
memo to you.
A.
From David Carrington?
Q.
From David Carrington.
10
A.
And then what was your question?
11
Q.
And I'm saying this memo is the
12
13
14
(BY MR. SMITH)
It's the April 2nd
subject of item four on this memo; right?

A.
Your Exhibit 6 is the subject of
paragraph four of the --
15
MR. LOWE:
That was his question.
16
A.
-- of Number 2?
17
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
18
A.
Yes, it is.
19
Q.
And so is it correct -- have you got
20
That's my question.
2 in front of you as well now?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Thanks.
I'm reading from paragraph
23
four of Sewell Exhibit 2.
24
evaluation of billing rates was grossly
25
misleading in that it compared apples to
1-800-325-3376
It says your


Page 127
1
oranges.
understand that sentence when you reviewed this
memo?
A.
Do you know what that means?
Did you
I -- I can read the sentence, but I'm
not -- the purpose of the memo was not to
evaluate billing rates, the purpose of the memo
was to -- I mean, the billing rates are what
they are, they're -- that's absolutely factual.
The purpose of the memo was to try to figure out
10
11
a way to do more work in-house at less cost.

Q.
But would you agree that what you did
12
in the memo was make a comparison between
13
expenditures on the outside lawyers and how it
14
could be different with a larger legal
15
department reporting to you?
16
A.
17
comparison.
18
the facts are the facts.
19
Q.
Well, I don't think I made a

I think I stated what the facts --
Well, all right.
If the word
20
comparison isn't appropriate, then did you
21
describe how much money would be saved by
22
growing the legal department reporting to you as
23
compared to engaging outside counsel to the
24
extent the county was at the time of these
25
papers?
1-800-325-3376


Page 128
1
A.
itself.
Q.
I think that the memo speaks for
But you can still answer the question
whether it does or not?
A.
I can -- I mean, I can answer the
question, there's no comparison in here.
don't really understand your question.
8
9
10
Q.
When you give a five-million-dollar
figure, is that based on comparing one thing to

another?
11
A.
12
13
What are you referring to?

MR. LOWE:
Where is that stated in
here?
14
MR. SMITH:
I'm sorry, guys.
Let me
15
be sure that that's -- that this is where I get
16
that number.
17
18
19
(PAUSE)
No, it's a fair question.
Let me
withdraw mine.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
The memo, the April
20
2nd memo goes on to say, as I've shared with you
21
before, billing rates for outside attorneys
22
include items that are not paid by in-house
23
attorneys, items like client development,
24
vacation days, sick days, holidays, staff
25
payroll and benefits, employer contributions to
1-800-325-3376


Page 129
1
health insurance, employer contributions to
Social Security taxes, overhead contributions
for rent, utilities, insurance, et cetera.
that true?
true?
A.
Is
Is that statement in this memo
I don't know if it's true or not, I
don't understand the statement or what relevance
it has to this memo.
It is in the memo.
Q.
It's in the April 2nd memo?
10
A.
11
mean that, what you just read is in the April
12
2nd memo, but it -- I don't know --
13
MR. LOWE:
You're asking him to
14
explain David Carrington's thought processes,
15
which may be impossible to do.
16
A.
I mean, it suggested to me how
17
hastily this was prepared, how quickly the April
18
2nd memo was thrown together without a whole lot
19
of thought.
20
this March 13 memo was also referenced in item
21
number five of the April 2nd memo.
22
23
24
25
Q.
And I believe this memo is also --
(BY MR. SMITH)
And is the
information in paragraph five correct, too?

A.
No.
Carrington is completely wrong.
It's completely false.
1-800-325-3376


Page 130
1
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Will you explain that?

If you read on April -- the
April 2nd memo, paragraph number five,
Mr. Carrington refers to a memorandum, this
County Exhibit 6, dated March 13, 2013.
that I represented that your -- my office had
reviewed 1298 contracts in the year 2012, and
that is a correct statement.
a detailed review of the 2012 -- commission
He says
It says, in fact,
10
agendas is what he's referring to -- indicates,
11
A, the total number of contracts and amendments,
12
many of which were minor -- and so forth and so
13
on -- that were presented to the commission for
14
consideration was approximately one-half that
15
amount, indeed the total number of items on all
16
commission agendas was actually less than 1298.
17
When I read this I realized how
18
quickly again this was -- it was thrown together
19
because the assumption that underlies that
20
statement is that a contract only is reviewed
21
one time in the county attorney's office.
22
That's wrong.
23
a contract that is reviewed in the county
24
attorney's office ever makes it to the county
25
commission agenda.
1-800-325-3376
The other assumption is, is that
That's also wrong.


Page 131
1
Q.
So --
A.
It is -- when a contract comes in for
review in the county attorney's office it almost
always is incomplete, something's not right, it
is logged in, it is logged out, it goes away for
days, weeks or months, it comes back, gets
logged in, it gets logged out again.
1298 is absolutely one hundred percent accurate.
The secretary in the office keeps a log of these
The number
10
and that number was derived from that log and
11
there were 1298 contract reviews in the year
12
2012.
13
Q.
And if a contract, single contract,
14
was reviewed five times, is that a one or a
15
five?
16
A.
It's five.
17
Q.
That's a five in the 1298?
18
A.
Absolutely.
And there also -- it is
19
very common for contracts to be reviewed that
20
never make it to the agenda and never get voted
21
on because along the way it just falls apart.
22
Q.
Is there anything in the memo that
23
explains that where one contract is reviewed
24
multiple times, that you treated that as a
25
multiple as opposed to the one for the
1-800-325-3376


Page 132
1
contract?
A.
Everyone that works for Jefferson
County that is involved in the contract process
that has any experience or tenure there knows
that.
6
7
8
Someone who had some experience -Q.
I think my question was is there any
reference in the memo to that?

A.
There's no reference to that, there's
no reference to where the elevators are or the
10
public restroom, because people that have been
11
there a little while understand that.
12
13
Q.
Well, I don't know -- no one there
has been there as long as you had; right?
14
A.
Almost no one.
15
Q.
And so in the memo it doesn't explain
16
that 1298 represents the multiple times one
17
contract would be reviewed as opposed to just
18
the number of contracts themselves?
19
MR. WILSON:
Objection to form.
20
mean, you're going around and around.
21
document says what it says, and the document
22
doesn't actually say contracts reviewed, it says
23
contract reviews.
24
THE WITNESS:
25
MR. SMITH:
1-800-325-3376
The
Plural.
Is that an objection to


Page 133
1
the form?
2
3
MR. WILSON:
the form.
4
5
That is an objection to
MR. LOWE:
And thank -- thank you for
making it.
A.
So the point is, is that on April
2nd, paragraph number five of the April 2nd memo
was just -- it's just false, it's wrong.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Did the commission
10
approve your recommendation in the March 13
11
memo?
12
A.
Let me look at my recommendations.
13
(COUNSEL AND WITNESS CONFERRING.)
14
I recommended that the office be
15
comprised of six qualified competent in-house
16
attorneys with adequate skill sets, along with
17
some clerical positions being created.
18
aware that those recommendations were ever
19
implemented.
20
done so since I am not there anymore, but I'm
21
unaware of it.
22
Q.
I'm not
It's certainly possible they have
(BY MR. SMITH)
The last you knew,
23
this recommendation had not been approved in any
24
way, had it?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
I think that's right.


Page 134
1
Q.
And did you provide them any
comparison in this analysis of the compensation
in the Jefferson County Legal Department to the
legal department of any other local government
subdivision?
A.
Not in -- not in this memorandum, I
did not.
There had been previous conversations
and discussions with this and former commissions
that go back for years that looked at the
10
workload done in-house at Jefferson County
11
with -- you know, comparing that to similar
12
in-house legal offices in other parts of the
13
United States, including Jacksonville, Florida,
14
Duval County, Florida, and other counties around
15
the country, but that was not in this document.
16
17
18
Q.
But in -- that would be relevant,
would you agree?

A.
That was not what I was asked to do.
19
The purpose of the memorandum was to advise
20
about how to save money on the cost of outside
21
counsel, what to do to accomplish that goal.
22
Q.
If you were a decision maker about
23
how to manage this money, would you be
24
interested in knowing how do the salaries in
25
this department compare to similar departments?
1-800-325-3376


Page 135
1
A.
If I had -- if I were a decision
maker I would -- and I wanted to know that, I
would ask for it.
4
5
Q.
So you -- but you would regard it as
relevant?
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
If I were a decision maker?
I don't
know if it would be relevant -- to whom it would
be relevant to, but if I wanted to know I would
10
ask for it.
11
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
And did you
12
understand when you reviewed the April 2nd memo
13
that Commissioner Carrington wanted that kind of
14
information or would have found it useful?
15
MR. LOWE:
Object to the form.
It's
16
asking him to speculate what Carrington wanted.
17
He's already told you what he was directed to
18
do.
19
A.
If Mr. Carrington had wanted that
20
information he could have asked me for it, but
21
he didn't.
22
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Do you know, as of
23
this time period of March 2013, how the
24
compensation in your office compared to any
25
other Alabama local government legal department?
1-800-325-3376


Page 136
1
MR. WILSON:
A.
compensation?
Q.
5
6
Objection to form.
You talking about the in-house
(BY MR. SMITH)
Yes.
I do, yes,
uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).

A.
I had just general knowledge of how
it would compare to the compensation, not just
in Alabama but in other parts of the country
with similarly sized counties with similarly
10
11
sized legal issues and problems.

Q.
And what is your understanding of how
12
your salary compared to other people in similar
13
positions across the country?
14
A.
Well, you have to understand that in
15
March of 2013 there was no other county in
16
the -- that I'm aware of in the United States of
17
America that was going through what Jefferson
18
County's going through.
19
county's -- Jefferson County's compensation
20
scales to let's just say Pike County, Alabama,
21
would, in my judgment, that would be an apple to
22
orange comparison, but perhaps a comparison to
23
Duval County, Florida might not be, where the
24
county attorney earns substantially more than
25
$375,000 a year.
1-800-325-3376
So to compare the


Page 137
1
Q.
But if you went back, you say the
county circumstances were peculiar in 2013, your
salary increases had been on what percentage
increases for the three years before?
A.
Zero.
Q.
And so in 2010 your salary was three
seventy-five?
A.
following this.
10
11
I think you -- perhaps you're not
Q.
I may not be.
I thought you said you
had zero percent increase for three years?
12
A.
I had no increase despite -- despite
13
the resolution of the county commission that set
14
up a ten-step 5 percent per year increase.
15
Q.
Let me ask a better question.
16
MR. LOWE:
You know, let me interject
17
a second.
18
issue in this employment lawsuit that -- why are
19
we delving into why he got paid, when he got
20
paid?
21
county that ended all issues and disputes
22
between Mr. Sewell and the county.
23
to delve into those for the rest of the day?
24
25
I don't -- is Mr. Sewell's pay an
He signed a separation agreement with the
Are we going
And, by the way, I'll raise the

seven-hour limit rule since it looks like we're
1-800-325-3376


Page 138
1
going to bump into that on this deposition.
I mean, where are we going with all this?
So,
You get to cross-examine him within
the scope of what he asked this morning, but
admittedly I'm not up to speed on what the
issues are in this lawsuit, but I don't think
anything has anything to do with what, you know,
he made and his salary and why he got an
increase or not.
I mean, if you want to talk
10
about why he got terminated, I guess -- I'm not
11
even sure that's relevant, but --
12
MR. SMITH:
13
MR. LOWE:
14
That was a polite way of
saying --
15
16
Well, what I'll say is --
MR. SMITH:
I know what you're
saying.
17
MR. LOWE:
-- I think you're really
18
outside the scope of what's going on.
19
getting late in the day, it's getting more and
20
more tedious.
21
we cut to the chase?
22
23
24
25
A.
It's
I don't know, I'm just saying can
I don't remember your question.
I'm
sorry.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
In 2010, was your
salary approximately $375,000?
1-800-325-3376


Page 139
1
2
A.
My salary was exactly $375,000, two
thousand eight, nine, ten and eleven.
Q.
The circumstances in 2013, which were
being in bankruptcy, weren't the same in those
years, was it?
A.
I don't follow your question.
Q.
We weren't in bankruptcy, Jefferson
County was not in bankruptcy until 2011 as I
recall; is that right?
10
11
A.
Jefferson County had not filed a
petition until November of 2011.
12
Q.
My point is this:
You responded a
13
moment ago that -- that your salary was
14
justified, my word, because being in the county
15
attorney's office in 2013 was so uniquely
16
demanding.
17
said?
18
A.
Am I paraphrasing correctly what you
I don't feel like I'm trying to
19
justify my salary.
20
question.
21
22
MR. LOWE:
I don't follow your
And it's not relevant to
this case.
23
MR. SMITH:
Well, the commission's
24
dissatisfaction with Mr. Sewell is.
25
issue in my mind in the consent decree
1-800-325-3376
It's not an


Page 140
1
litigation --
MR. LOWE:
Okay.
Well, just ask him
questions about their dissatisfaction and
I'll --
5
6
MR. SMITH:
Well, this is a subject
of the memo.
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
So I am.
MR. LOWE:
All right.
10
MR. SMITH:
Okay.
Keep going.
But I'm happy to -- I've
11
cut out a lot of my outline during lunch, so I
12
wouldn't be so pessimistic.
13
can't get an answer to the question and so I can
14
go to the next one --
15
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
But -- but if I
You were a very
16
highly paid county attorney by any standard,
17
wouldn't you agree?
18
19
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
When I took the job as the county
20
attorney I agreed to accept the job at $88,000 a
21
year less than my predecessor, with the
22
understanding that there would be a pay scale
23
established as a matter of public record that
24
would treat all of the lawyers in the county
25
attorney's office the same as other employees of
1-800-325-3376


Page 141
1
the county who all have a ten-step 5 percent pay
scale by operation of the merit system.
that was the first time that had ever been
done.
And
And that was a requirement of mine in
order to -- there were two requirements that I
had when I took the job.
must create the same pay runway for the lawyers
as they -- as was created for all other
One is the commission
10
employees of the county.
11
requirement.
12
there would be a unanimous vote of the
13
commission to hire me as county attorney and if
14
there was not going to be a unanimous vote I was
15
not going to accept the job --
16
That was one
The other requirement was that
What had happened by March of 2013,
17
all of the other employees of the county who
18
were now reporting to the county manager, all of
19
their 5 percent merit raises had been reinstated
20
a year earlier, but the commission was the
21
appointing authority for our office.
22
office they had not been restarted, so we were
23
being treated odd man out from all the rest of
24
the employees in the county, which was a premise
25
that all of the commissioners understood fully.
1-800-325-3376
In our


Page 142
1
So it's very disingenuous to suggest
there's something sinister about all of our pay
which was established years earlier.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
I don't know why you
read my question that way.
you to confirm that you were aware in 2013 that
your salary was a particularly high salary level
for the position you occupied in the market
across the country.
10
MR. LOWE:
11
it's been asked and answered.
12
MR. SMITH:
13
MR. LOWE:
14
MR. SMITH:
15
MR. LOWE:
16
others, no.
17
several times.
18
19
I'm simply asking
I object to the form, plus
Did he answer?
Yeah, he has.
What's the answer?
He said compared to
And he even said Duval County
MR. SMITH:
He said Duval County
once, and I don't know --
20
MR. LOWE:
21
Q.
No, he said it --
(BY MR. SMITH)
But is there --
22
other than athletics coaches, was there anyone
23
paid higher as a public employee in Alabama than
24
you?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
Absolutely, yeah.
Carroll Garrison,


Page 143
1
Malcolm Portera, the chancellors, the CFO of the
University of Alabama system.
college systems all through Alabama, yeah,
absolutely.
5
6
Auburn, yeah, the
Paul Hubbert.
MR. LOWE:
The junior college
systems.
A.
The junior college systems.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
9
10
11
Make more than
$400,000?
A.
Yeah.
The AEA director, and just go
on down the line.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
And if you will actually go do the
14
research, you will find that a $375,000 annual
15
salary for a county attorney in a similarly
16
sized county with a similar number of years of
17
experience is -- that's not out of line.
18
19
Q.
Not out of line with other county
attorneys?
20
A.
Correct.
21
Q.
And who are all the county attorneys
22
by whatever location that you include when you
23
say that?
24
25
A.
The ones that come to my mind right
here, sitting here today, are Duval County,
1-800-325-3376


Page 144
1
Florida, Broward County, Florida.
others around the country.
There are
Q.
Okay.
A.
Including Jefferson County Alabama in
the 20 or so years before I became the county
attorney.
Q.
And so your testimony about your
salary level, would it be fair to summarize it
as being you thought it was at a completely
10
appropriate level?
11
12
13
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
If I didn't think it was an
appropriate level, I would have objected to it.
14
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
15
A.
The county commission established the
16
salary.
17
Q.
You did object to it.
18
MR. LOWE:
19
MR. WILSON:
20
MR. LOWE:
Objection.
It's not a question.
That's arguing with him.
21
A.
It really is.
22
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
23
But you did object to
it, didn't you?
24
25
Well, you did.
MR. WILSON:
A.
1-800-325-3376
Objection to form.
What is it?


Page 145
1
2
Q.
A.
No.
No.
MR. LOWE:
He's already answered
that.
6
7
To your salary level
not being enough?
(BY MR. SMITH)
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
The memo that's March
13th, had that analysis been done before that?
A.
What analysis?
Q.
Had you ever done a previous similar
10
analysis?
11
A.
To what?
To Exhibit 6?
12
Q.
Yes.
13
A.
I had done -- actually I had not
14
done, the -- my predecessor had done an analysis
15
and had a file that went back many, many years.
16
And when attorney compensation for the county
17
attorney's office was his concern and not my
18
concern, he had quite a file on this matter and
19
from time to time over the last 25 years, the --
20
you know, the pay was adjusted for the lawyers
21
in the county attorney's office.
22
to work for Jefferson County in 1982, my pay
23
was, I think, if I recall, was less than $3 an
24
hour.
25
Q.
1-800-325-3376
When I started
Well, so your answer about whether


Page 146
1
that analysis had been done by the county
attorney's office before, the answer is no?
A.
No, the answer is there had been an
analysis before of, you know, compensation type
analysis for the lawyers, in-house lawyers, but
it predated me as county attorney.
7
8
Q.
Comparing outside lawyer rates to
in-house lawyer salaries?
A.
I -- yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
10
Q.
But the outcome of the March 13th
11
memo was no change was made in the face of your
12
recommendation?
13
A.
14
15
I think that's right.

MR. SMITH:
Okay.
Can we take 10
minutes and let me sort out my outline?
16
THE WITNESS:
Sure.
17
MR. SMITH:
18
(Whereupon, a short recess was had,
19
2:47 p.m. - 3:21 p.m.)
20
MR. SMITH:
Thank you.
All right.
21
We can go back on the record.
22
is that right?
Thank you.
I have 6 marked;
23
THE REPORTER:
24
25
1-800-325-3376
Yes.


Page 147
1
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
My question to you --
Hold on.
Have we got it marked
yet?
THE REPORTER:
MR. WILSON:
Yes.
You might want to
identify it for the record and for Jay's benefit
too.
10
MR. SMITH:
What we have marked as
11
County Exhibit 7 is an e-mail sequence where the
12
last e-mail of the sequence is at 9:30 p.m. on
13
February 25th, 2013.
14
15
16
17
18
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Is this, Mr. Sewell,
an e-mail sequence that you've seen before?

A.
I think it's part of an e-mail
sequence I've seen before.

Q.
Is this a correct presentation of
19
these -- of the dialogue had on this occasion by
20
these e-mails?
21
22
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
It's probably correct.
I don't think
23
it's complete, but the part that's here I think
24
is correct.
25
Q.
1-800-325-3376
(BY MR. SMITH)
Okay.
And this --


Page 148
1
the e-mail responses that are attributed to you
here are statements that you typed for yourself?
A.
Probably.
I think so.
Q.
All right.
Thank you.
In the public hearing on April 12th
that's been talked about before, Commissioner
Knight, you may recall, raised the subject of
Commissioner Carrington having made a proposal
for an amendment to the resolution of
10
organization to add a committee for the county
11
manager and to add a committee for the county
12
attorney.
13
up in that April 12th -- I'll call it a
14
hearing -- committee meeting?
15
A.
Do you remember that subject coming
Committee meeting.
I remember Knight
16
saying something along those lines, but it was
17
not -- it was not a -- what he was referring to
18
was not a proposed amendment to the resolution
19
of organization.
20
what he said -- may be what he said, but that's
21
not what the document was.
22
Q.
That's not what -- that's not
Well, let me read an unofficial
23
transcript of it, and that's what I acknowledge
24
to you it is, it's a transcript of the hearing
25
that day that's been typed for my use.
1-800-325-3376
I'm


Page 149
1
reading from commission -- what is attributed to
Commissioner Knight:
for you as the county attorney to say, hey guys,
we've got this coming up?
have forgotten about it, but I don't know, but
you knew about it and I don't feel like you
communicated that to us.
memorandum, because here we had this
organizational chart of 2010 when we came in and
And would it be prudent
You know, you may
The April 2nd
10
it says what it says, and we had the consent
11
hearing, the contempt hearing, with several
12
months passed by and the issue never became
13
paramount until April 2nd, 2010 -- I'll tell you
14
is what he said, I believe he meant 2013.
15
Continuing with reading Commissioner Knight:
16
think that was in response to Mr. Carrington
17
putting forth a resolution to add another
18
committee for the county manager so that we
19
could kind of shift all those departments under
20
county manager to him and then have the county
21
attorney to have a committee.
22
and Mr. Carrington, I think y'all told me y'all
23
had talked and we're in this committee meeting
24
and then you pull out a memorandum and put it
25
out and we kind of stepped back and took that
1-800-325-3376
And I know you


Page 150
1
deep breath.
Do you remember that subject coming
up that day?
A.
I remember trying to follow what --
that rambling discourse, and I didn't understand
it then.
Q.
Was there a committee meeting that
was open to the public on or about March 26th,
2013, where Commissioner Carrington discussed
10
making adjustments to the resolution of
11
organization?
12
A.
13
14
15
16
There are -- all committee meetings
are open to the public.

Q.
Well, if you could answer about the
one I'm asking about.

A.
I don't remember dates.
I don't -- I
17
couldn't tell you about dates, but I don't
18
recall -- I don't recall Commissioner Carrington
19
coming forward with a -- with an amendment to
20
the resolution of organization.
21
think that's right.
22
Q.
No, I don't
Was there a meeting -- well, first,
23
do you dispute that there was a committee
24
meeting on March 26th?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
I don't know.


Page 151
1
Q.
Do you have any reason to say that
didn't happen, like you were out of the country
or --
A.
I wasn't out of the country.
Q.
Okay.
A.
I mean, there were committee
meetings, I guess, every other Tuesday.
8
9
Q.
But was there a meeting where you
came in with an amended redlined resolution of
10
organization where in an open public meeting you
11
passed it around to all the commissioners?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
And in that meeting before you did
14
that passing out of your draft, had Commissioner
15
Carrington's idea of adjusting the committee
16
structure to have these other two committees
17
discussed?
18
A.
19
20
I don't remember -MR. WILSON:
Could I have that read
back?
21
22
MR. WILSON:
23
missing.
24
25
I think there's a word
MR. SMITH:
complete.
1-800-325-3376
It does seem less than
Why don't I -- if there's no


Page 152
1
objection, I'll just try to state it again.
A.
I didn't understand that.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
At this meeting where
you handed out your redline of the resolution,
had Commissioner Carrington discussed in that
meeting the idea of making committee adjustments
to add these other two committees?
A.
I don't remember.
Q.
Okay.
10
Do you deny that he did that
before you handed out your version?
11
A.
I don't -- I don't remember.
12
Q.
I understand.
13
14
I'm asking whether you
deny it or not.
A.
15
I don't remember.
MR. LOWE:
16
question.
17
or affirm it, so --
He's answered the
If he doesn't know, he can't deny it
18
MR. SMITH:
19
MR. LOWE:
20
press him to do so.
Okay.
It would be unfair to
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Let me show you what
I'm going to ask to have marked as County
1-800-325-3376


Page 153
1
Exhibit 8.
exhibit.
Let me ask you to look at that
MR. SMITH:
And for the benefit of
Jay, this exhibit is four pages of type, and on
the front page it begins, "Now therefore be it
resolved by the Jefferson County Commission."
And there's a handwritten note on the right
corner of it that says "134 Carrington
Resolution."
10
11
12
13
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
you get the water?

A.
No.
I'm -- I've got a little bit
over here.
14
MR. LOWE:
Y'all don't need to wait
15
on him, he'll be fine.
16
THE WITNESS:
17
18
So my question -- did
If I choke and hit the
floor, go get water.

Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
My question about
19
County Exhibit 8 is, if you look at that, does
20
it give you any recollection of whether that's
21
something that you had seen either in that
22
meeting -- well, first, in that meeting before
23
you handed out your version?
24
25
A.
This -- this does -- I've seen this
before, but I don't remember when I saw it and
1-800-325-3376


Page 154
1
whether it was before or after, same time.
just don't remember the temporal flow of what
you're trying to ask me about.
Q.
Well, in the hearing -- the committee
meeting of April 12th, did you take issue, to
your recollection, with Commissioner Knight
saying y'all both had your ideas being advanced
in that meeting and -- and it became something
of a battle of ideas at that point?
10
MR. WILSON:
11
MR. LOWE:
Objection to form.
Object.
12
A.
13
was saying.
14
and broken and made no sense at all to me.
15
Still doesn't.
16
Q.
I didn't understand what Joe Knight

I couldn't -- it was just rambling
(BY MR. SMITH)
All right.
And so my
17
question, I guess, is when you handed yours out,
18
what was the context of it, what did you say as
19
you handed it out in this open meeting?
20
A.
Words to the effect that I'm -- let
21
me pass this report out to you that you -- that
22
I was asked to prepare and here it is.
23
wasn't -- that wasn't done as a random act of
24
something -- you know, I was doing that at a
25
request of a -- commissioners, more than one
1-800-325-3376
That


Page 155
1
commissioner.
Q.
Let me ask you to look at what I'm
going to ask to have marked as County Exhibit
9.
if you'll take a second and let me know if that
appears to be the document that you handed out
10
in a committee meeting on or about March 26th,
11
2013?
And ask you to take a second -- Mr. Sewell,
12
A.
13
handed out.
14
don't recall the circumstance of who was -- who
15
said what, when, where at that meeting.
16
Q.
This appears to be a document that I

I don't recall the date.
I just
Well, let's put it at least in some
17
context whether you remember March 26th or not.
18
Can you confirm that was before Monday, April
19
1st?
20
A.
No.
I don't remember when -- in
21
March and April when committees met.
22
remember the dates -- I just don't remember,
23
David.
24
25
Q.
I don't
I'm sorry.
Well, but, you know, April the 2nd is
the day you've testified a great deal about and
1-800-325-3376


Page 156
1
that's a Tuesday, I'll represent to you.
Monday, April 1st, is the first day of April,
and I'm asking about a late March committee
meeting.
as you put that in context whether you can say
one way or the other whether you presented the
commission in an open committee meeting your
proposal about this amendment to the resolution
of organization?
So it seems -- I'd like to ask again
10
A.
Did I present it?
11
Q.
Did you present it before April 1st?
12
A.
I don't know.
13
Q.
You just don't know one way or the
14
other?
15
16
A.
I don't remember -- I don't remember
when the committees were meeting.
17
18
Yes.
Q.
Do you have any reason to believe
that you did this after the April 2nd memos?
19
A.
I don't know.
I don't remember when
20
the meeting -- when the committee meeting was or
21
this was passed out.
22
Q.
Well, let me ask it a different way,
23
then.
24
about performance deficiencies that's marked as
25
Sewell 3, after you got that did you ever
1-800-325-3376
After you got your April 2nd counseling


Page 157
1
present the commission -- did you ever present
the commission -- Sewell 3 is what I said.
A.
I'm sorry.
Q.
That's okay.
It's the April 2nd
counseling on -- according to the document,
performance deficiencies.
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
My apology, it's Sewell 2.
MR. WILSON:
I saw that here
somewhere.
14
MR. SMITH:
15
THE WITNESS:
16
MR. SMITH:
17
Are you okay?

Yeah, fine.
I mean, do you need water
before we keep going?
18
19
I'm
sorry.
12
13
I'm thinking that -- have
I said the number wrong?
10
11
3, here we go.
THE WITNESS:
Q.
No.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Okay.
Do you have
20
any recollection of providing a redlined amended
21
resolution of organization after the time when
22
you had counseling with Commissioners Carrington
23
and Brown on April 2nd?
24
25
MR. WILSON:
A.
1-800-325-3376
Objection to form.
I don't remember when I -- when the


Page 158
1
meeting was when I handed -- I'm sorry, I just
don't remember when the meeting was.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
All right.
So if the
-- if what Commissioner Knight was saying in his
statement here can be boiled down to there was a
meeting and both Carrington and Sewell presented
their thoughts on the resolution of
organization, if that's what he's getting at,
your testimony is that you don't have any
10
recollection at all of when that was?
11
A.
I don't have a recollection of when
12
that was, but the way you phrased your question
13
is not what he -- is not what he was getting
14
at.
That's not what happened.
15
Q.
Well, those are two different things.
16
A.
I don't think you understand what
17
happened.
18
Q.
Well, I wasn't there for sure.
19
A.
I was.
20
Q.
But I'm using the same meeting
I don't remember when it was.
21
information that was the subject this morning,
22
and so that's the way I'm trying to get into the
23
fact that there was a meeting.
24
don't remember when the meeting was, but you do
25
remember handing out your redlined amended
1-800-325-3376
So -- so you


Page 159
1
2
resolution of organization?
A.
I do -- I remember handing out -- you
know, drafting and handing out a -- this
exhibit, County Exhibit 9.
remember when it was.
Q.
All right.
I just don't
And can you confirm for
me that when you did that, it was the first time
you had ever submitted that document to the
client?
10
A.
To the county commission?
11
Q.
Yes.
12
A.
No, cannot confirm it.
13
Q.
You don't know one way or the other?
14
A.
No, I do know.
15
Q.
When was this distributed before?
16
A.
It had been discussed in executive
17
18
session prior to the meeting.

Q.
Well, I don't want to get into
19
executive session, so -- so we'll move to strike
20
that testimony.
21
that happened in executive session.
22
23
MR. WILSON:
Well, you asked -- you
asked the question.
24
25
Assert privilege over anything
MR. SMITH:
I know that, but that
doesn't change his responsibility where I don't
1-800-325-3376


Page 160
1
know the answer to --
MR. WILSON:
He didn't tell you
anything about the substance, he simply answered
your question about whether it was discussed
with the commission before.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
All right.
So if the
question to you is whether you knew Commissioner
Carrington had some ideas about amending the
resolution of organization in late March, your
10
11
12
13
answer is yes or no?

A.
Commissioner Carrington was not
trying to amend the resolution of organization.

Q.
Okay.
So your testimony would be
14
that he had no ideas that he put forth in this
15
open meeting on March 26th about amending the
16
resolution of organization at all?
17
A.
That would be correct.
18
Q.
Okay.
And what you've got over there
19
as County Exhibit 8, does it relate to the
20
committee structure?
21
A.
It would -- it would -- if this, if
22
Exhibit 8 has been adopted, it would have
23
circumvented the resolution of organization.
24
didn't amend, it was -- if you look at it
25
carefully, it purported to amend the resolution
1-800-325-3376
It


Page 161
1
of organization without following the procedure
in the resolution of organization for amending
the resolution.
Q.
It was circumventing it.
I'm not saying that this was
presented as a motion.
that he asked for this to be approved in a
motion in this open meeting of March 26th?
8
9
A.
Do you have some memory
I think that what I would have to say
about what his intent was and what he expressed
10
to me would be covered by the attorney/client
11
privilege.
12
Q.
No, I think what I asked was in this
13
meeting of March 26th, wasn't there some motion
14
to approve this as an amendment?
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
A.
I think you would have to go back --
not as an amendment.
Q.
And so was this a discussion of ideas
about how to adjust the committee structure?

A.
There had been a -- I'm going to say
a very little bit about this.

Q.
Well, I don't want you to go to
22
privileged information.
23
March 26th and whether you can say whether or
24
not this was a part of a discussion on how to
25
amend the resolution and structure committees?
1-800-325-3376
I'm asking about the


Page 162
1
2
3
A.
It was not a discussion about how to
amend the resolution of organization.

Q.
Was it a discussion about the
committee arrangement in the resolution of
organization?
A.
No.
No, it was not.
It was quite
the opposite of that.
subject of discussion in an executive session.
Q.
10
And it had been the
I'll ask another question.

Now, in County Exhibit 9, in the open
11
meeting, do you remember -- and I'm talking
12
again on March 26th and you've said you don't
13
remember the day -- but the meeting where you
14
handed out your redlined version, do you
15
remember that it was an occasion where -- where
16
after you handed out yours that there was
17
discussion and then consensus that we'll review
18
this and then come back to it?
19
A.
I don't remember that.
20
Q.
Do you have any basis for denying it?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
In that open committee meeting that
23
day, did you provide any recommendations in that
24
meeting for your version to be approved as read?
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
Not in that meeting.


Page 163
1
Q.
Did Commissioner Carrington's
document say anything explicit about not
complying with the county manager act?
A.
Which document?
Q.
County 8.
A.
I don't think so.
7
8
9
I don't think it
addressed the county manager act at all.

Q.
Did the -- did Mr. Carrington's
document say anything about not complying with
10
the Federal Employment Discrimination Consent
11
Decree?
12
A.
Exhibit Number 8?
13
Q.
Yes.
14
A.
I don't think it mentions the consent
15
decree.
16
Q.
Does the document that Mr. Carrington
17
submitted in that meeting, which I'm handing to
18
you as County Exhibit 8, did it recognize the
19
role of the county manager more than the
20
resolution of organization that was in place at
21
that time?
22
MR. WILSON:
Object to the form.
23
A.
I don't think so.
24
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
25
Does the -- does the
existing resolution of organization provide for
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Page 164
1
the county manager to have a committee?
2
3
4
5
6
MR. WILSON:
Objection.
Now I don't
know which -- what's the existing?

A.
Yeah, I don't know either.
I haven't
seen the current one.

Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
All right.
Your
version, which we've got marked as County
Exhibit 9, was a comprehensive amendment of the
resolution.
10
11
12
13
Is that a fair description?
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
My version was a lawful amendment to
the resolution.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
What I mean to ask is
14
it was, from beginning to end, the version of
15
the existing resolution of organization with
16
redlining to the extent you thought it should be
17
changed?
18
A.
It was that.
19
Q.
But was it that?
20
A.
It -- it was that, but it was more
21
22
It was more than that.
than that.
Q.
Well, I'll ask the next question.
23
And your version changed the committee structure
24
within the commission from five committees to
25
one committee; is that right?
1-800-325-3376


Page 165
1
A.
It proposed that.
Q.
Yes, I understand it was never --
A.
Approved.
Q.
-- acted on in the way of approval.
A.
Right.
Q.
And what did your version provide in
the way of an amendment for elected officials or
agencies that didn't report to the county
manager?
10
A.
The document that I drafted, that I
11
handed out that I don't remember when I handed
12
it out, I don't remember the day --
13
14
15
Q.
But you do acknowledge it was a
public meeting?
A.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely -- well,
16
when it was handed out, when this version was
17
handed out, it was a public meeting.
18
been prior executive sessions which we're not
19
going to get into.
20
21
22
Q.
There had
Well, which I didn't ask about and I
don't want to have testimony about.

A.
Okay.
This Exhibit 9 was -- was a
23
proper and lawful amendment to the resolution of
24
organization which was never approved.
25
Q.
1-800-325-3376
My question was did your draft


Page 166
1
provide any amendment for the elected officials
or the agencies that don't report to the county
manager?
A.
I don't remember.
Q.
Well, look if you would and let me
know what, if any, change of that sort was
made.
8
9
A.
If you look at the two exhibits, A
and B, that were lined through, I don't see any
10
reference at all to -- in the original version
11
or the revised version to elected officials
12
other than the county commission.
13
understand your question.
14
Q.
Maybe I don't
Well, did you make provision for the
15
fact that there are people in the county who
16
don't fall under the county manager and how --
17
who their appointing authorities would be or how
18
they would be fit within the organization?
19
A.
The -- this document would not be the
20
place, you would not put something in this
21
document about an elected official reporting to
22
the county manager in a situation where the
23
elected official doesn't report to the county
24
manager.
25
independently elected, either statutory or
1-800-325-3376
An elected official is an


Page 167
1
constitutional office in the State of Alabama,
and would not report to the county manager or
the county commission.
Q.
And so is that addressed in any way?
A.
I'm not following you.
Q.
The place of elected officials or
their relationship to the county committees or
who's a liaison to what, does it address those
in any way?
10
A.
The -- again the elected officials
11
are independently elected officials, they
12
don't --
13
14
15
Q.
But what about the agencies where
they are?
A.
If you have something in here you'd
16
like me to look at, I'll be happy to look at it,
17
if you can just direct me to it.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
You've struck a lot of language on
page six; is that right?

A.
There is -- there is redlined or
lined out language on page six.

Q.
And is any of that provided for
elsewhere or is that just all deleted?

A.
I don't remember -- without sitting
here and going through all of this, I don't know
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Page 168
1
2
3
4
if it was moved or -- I don't remember.

Q.
Does the county manager act require
that the county have just one committee?

A.
The county manager act makes the
county manager directly and solely responsible
for all operating departments of the county.
Q.
That wasn't my question.
My question
was does the county manager act require that the
organization of the county be one that has only
10
11
one committee?
A.
It doesn't expressly state that, but
12
I think that is a fair inference of the act and
13
I think that is clearly the legislative intent.
14
15
Q.
So am I correct that your answer is,
no, it doesn't?
16
MR. WILSON:
Objection to form.
17
A.
My answer is my answer.
18
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
But is it a correct
19
answer to say, no, the county manager act does
20
not address the number of committees that are
21
permissible?
22
MR. WILSON:
23
MR. LOWE:
Objection to form.
Asked and answered.
24
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
25
A.
I've answered your question.
1-800-325-3376
Is that right?


Page 169
1
Q.
Can you point me to any provision in
the county manager act that addresses the number
of committees?
A.
No.
Q.
the county manager act that specifies who can
chair a committee?
A.
No.
Q.
10
the county manager act that says what a
11
committee's agenda may consist of or not?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
I can't quote you the page and verse,
15
but the county manager is given the exclusive
16
and sole authority to supervise the operating
17
departments of Jefferson County.
18
means, among other things, that a county
19
commissioner does not have the authority to
20
supervise an operating department.
21
a committee in place that suggests that a county
22
commissioner is supervising an operating
23
department of the county is not -- is not
24
appropriate.
25
Q.
1-800-325-3376
To me that
And to have
I did not say anything in my


Page 170
1
questions about supervising anybody.
question was -- and I'm asking a different
question obviously rather than reading what I
just said, but does the county manager act have
rules about the way that the committees are
organized at all?
7
8
9
A.
My
I think -- I think the county manager
act informs how the committees are organized.

Q.
All right.
And by answering it as
10
you did, I assume that there's nothing explicit
11
there about committees, is there?
12
A.
The word -- I don't remember the word
13
"committee" being used in the county manager
14
act, I don't recall that.
15
Q.
All right.
And so would you agree
16
that changes made to the resolution of
17
organization as you have made them in County
18
Exhibit 9 are not the only way to bring the
19
resolution of organization into full compliance
20
with the county manager act?
21
A.
I would -- no, I don't know that I
22
would agree with that.
23
Exhibit Number 9 is "a" way.
24
"the" way, I haven't thought about that.
25
Q.
1-800-325-3376
I would agree that the

Whether it is
Well, that's my question.


Page 171
1
A.
But it's clearly in my judgment the
best way to bring it into compliance with the
law.
Q.
I'd suspect that since you handed it
out to everybody, but my question is, is it the
only way?
7
8
A.
I don't -- I would have to research
that and study that.
Q.
I don't know.
It may be.
And how can you make a case when the
10
county manager act says nothing about
11
committees, that perhaps the only way to be in
12
compliance with the county manager act is to
13
make changes so that it has one committee by
14
your design?
15
A.
Because when you take the label of
16
operating department away from the name of the
17
committee, you no longer have any practical way
18
to differentiate among the committees, and you
19
no longer have any need, practical need, to have
20
five separate committee meetings when one would
21
do.
22
23
24
25
It makes no sense.
Q.
These were ideas you chose to advance
in this open meeting; right?

A.
These -- well, this was an effort to
bring the resolution into compliance with the
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Page 172
1
2
county manager law in the best possible way.

Q.
Does the county manager act prohibit
having a committee of the county manager's
domain for the county manager to chair?
prohibit that?
A.
Does it
The -- the county manager law does
not address a committee -- it doesn't address
committees for county managers.
Q.
And does the county manager act
10
prohibit having a committee of the county
11
attorney's domain for the county attorney to
12
chair?
13
A.
Again, the county manager law does
14
not address, to my memory, a committee for a
15
county -- it doesn't address it.
16
Q.
Now, looking at the transcript of the
17
April 12 proceedings of the administrative
18
services committee, let me read again -- and
19
everything I read from this is -- is unofficial
20
and prepared simply by my office, but I have
21
reviewed it and I'll represent to you that I did
22
my best.
23
In the context of Mr. Knight's,
24
Commissioner Knight's statements about this
25
March 26th meeting and the drafts being
1-800-325-3376


Page 173
1
discussed, presented, handed out, you were given
an opportunity to respond and the response I'll
read.
compliance with the county manager law and need
to amend the resolution was one of a longer list
of items that I had finished going over with you
in an executive session.
8
9
You said in the hearing, the issue of
Now, did you tell the commissioners

before you said that that you were going to go
10
into privileged communications without
11
authorization?
12
MR. WILSON:
Object to the form of
13
the question.
14
he's told you he doesn't know the date as March
15
26th.
16
Commissioner Knight at the April 12th hearing or
17
meeting, whatever you want to call it, said
18
March 26th, you've asked an improper question.
19
You asked him several times and
Unless you're representing to me that
MR. LOWE:
No, now also it sounds
20
like he's insinuating that he did something
21
improper at this meeting by raising some
22
privileged information in an open meeting.
23
After he was terminated from his employment he
24
entered into an agreement where it washed away
25
any prior problems that may have been had.
1-800-325-3376
If


Page 174
1
we're going to sit here and rehash that, we're
leaving, because that has nothing to do with
this lawsuit.
Now, if you're talking about that's
one of the reasons he was terminated, then we
can get into that, but it wasn't on his list of
reasons or issues he had with him that
Mr. Carrington came up with.
point in going through this or insinuating that
10
Mr. Sewell did anything wrong because it has no
11
relevance to this case.
12
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
I don't see any
I'll read the entire
13
response:
14
county manager law and need to amend the
15
resolution was one of a longer list of items
16
that I had finished going over with you in an
17
executive session on March 14th, and it was
18
canceled.
19
the executive session was canceled doesn't
20
change my obligation to inform you and tell you
21
what my advice is.
22
going to read another Rule of Professional
23
Conduct.
24
organization for a client, and specifically a
25
governmental organization.
1-800-325-3376
The issue of compliance with the
The fact that your -- the fact that
Let me read another, I'm
It involves a lawyer who has an
Before I read that


Page 175
1
to you, though, before I forget, let me tell you
that, you know, why was this a burning issue on
April 2nd.
Mr. Knight said yeah.
Then you said:
There are a lot,
Jefferson County's got a lot of burning issues
and all of them came across my desk in the
intervening period from March 14th and April
2nd, the other things that were the higher
10
claims.
11
Circuit brief which had to be substantially
12
revised and edited, which was done the week of
13
March 18th.
14
an audit opinion letter I had to do to Warren
15
Averett regarding the school's warrant fund.
16
There was the mediator's statement that we were
17
working on, plan docket we were trying to
18
prepare, disclosure statements we were trying to
19
get done, and all the other hundreds of things
20
that occupy my time day and night.
21
2nd when I finally got around and transmitted
22
the memo to you and that's just because there
23
were so many things ahead of it that were even
24
higher points.
25
1-800-325-3376
The buildup included our Eleventh
All that had to be done.
There was
It was April
So as I understand what you were


Page 176
1
saying in the public meeting, between a March
14th meeting that was canceled and April the 2nd
when a memo was sent you were busy with other
issues and it was April 2nd before you finally
got around and transmitted the memo.
6
7
MR. WILSON:
Q.
Objection to form.
(BY MR. SMITH)

MR. WILSON:
Objection to form.
A.
Which memo?
10
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
11
14
The only one that you
wrote on April 2nd that I know of.
12
13
Is that true?
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
No, there probably would have been
more memos on April 2nd.
15
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
16
A.
There would have probably been more
17
18
19
20
21
I'm sorry?
than one memo.

Q.
Are you really saying you don't know
which one I'm talking about?

A.
I'm -- I'm assuming you're talking
about the April the 2nd memo to the county --
22
Q.
The privileged memo?
23
A.
-- to the county commission, the one
24
25
that's been redacted.

Q.
1-800-325-3376
No.
No.


Page 177
1
2
A.
No, no, I mean the one -- I'm sorry,
the one --
Q.
No, no.
A.
Yeah, I know which you're talking
The privileged memo --
about, the one delivered was that morning.
Q.
It was being talked about in the
April 12th hearing, so my question again is
between March 14th and April 2nd you were busy
with other issues and it was April 2nd before
10
you finally got around and transmitted the memo;
11
right?
12
13
A.
MR. LOWE:
Object to the form.
I'm lost.
I'm sorry.
Mr. Knight, if
14
I heard what you said, Mr. Knight brought up the
15
date of April 2nd in his question to me.
16
17
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Right?
He does make
reference to April 2nd.
18
A.
I don't -- yeah, I don't recall
19
referring to an April 2nd memo.
20
but I don't really understand what you're asking
21
me.
22
Q.
Maybe I did,
Well, let me try to do a better job.
23
Your statement in the opening proceedings to all
24
assembled was that the reason that the April 2nd
25
memo did -- went out when it did was that that's
1-800-325-3376


Page 178
1
when you finally got around to it because there
were so many burning issues for the county to
deal with.
A.
Is that true?
I suppose it is.
I don't have any
reason to think that it isn't, if that's what I
said.
Q.
The delay from March 14th which you
mentioned in your statement as the date a
meeting was canceled, the delay was due to the
10
volume of major issues you had to handle; is
11
that right?
12
A.
13
14
15
16
19
20
21
I don't
have what you're reading from.

Q.
Well, I'm reading from questions that
I wrote up, so -A.
17
18
I don't have -- excuse me.
That's why I don't have them.

MR. LOWE:
That's why they're
confusing, too, apparently.

A.
I don't -- I'm sorry, I just don't
have it.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Well, I'm sure I'm
22
not doing the greatest job, but I mean my
23
question should be clear and if it's not then
24
I'll ask it again.
25
A.
1-800-325-3376
I think it would be safe to say,


Page 179
1
David, that there was -- there were a multitude
of crises that had to be dealt with almost every
day for several years.
today in July of precise dates and moments and
times when meetings occurred, I just don't
remember.
access to records and things, but sitting here
today I don't remember the precise dates and
when something happened.
10
Q.
When -- I've lost track
I could reconstruct it if I had
What I'd like to confirm at this
11
moment is simply this:
12
2nd you weren't trying to get everyone in the
13
county courthouse to pay attention to the
14
compliance through revising the resolution.
15
was some -- everybody was busy, it came up in an
16
open meeting and -- and everybody was busy.
17
MR. WILSON:
18
MR. LOWE:
From March 14th to April
It
Objection to form.
Object to the form.
19
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Isn't that right?
20
A.
No, that's not right.
21
Q.
You just said that you were so busy
22
with so many crises between those two dates that
23
that's why you were delayed.
24
25
MR. WILSON:
Q.
1-800-325-3376
Objection to form.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Isn't that right?


Page 180
1
A.
No.
The -- the assumption behind the
question is not right and the question omits
facts.
Q.
Well, I -- you know, I don't envy me
deposing you or anybody deposing a lawyer, but
the fact is that I'm trying to confirm that
there wasn't some big defiance going on at this
point, there was discussion going on about
revising the resolution, wasn't there?
10
MR. WILSON:
11
MR. LOWE:
12
A.
Objection to form.
Objection.
There had been discussion going on
13
about doing that very thing well in advance of
14
March 14th.
15
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Now, was the
16
importance of bringing the resolution of
17
organization into compliance any different on
18
April the 1st, 2013 than it was in October 2011
19
when Tony Petelos started?
20
21
22
23
24
25
A.
I don't think so.
There was a
practical difference.
Q.
Well, I understand the time --
passing of time, but -A.
The county manager on the first day,
week, month, six weeks was not --
1-800-325-3376


Page 181
1
Q.
Can I ask you to wait for a question?
A.
Sure.
Q.
Is that fair?
A.
I'm trying to answer your prior
5
6
question, but if you would like to, that's fine.

Q.
Now, you were asked questions today,
this morning, about the -- the memo of April 2nd
that you delivered and -- and then getting
summoned to a meeting that same day, I think you
10
said six hours later.
11
correctly?
Am I recalling that
12
A.
That's right.
13
Q.
And is it your testimony that
14
Commissioner Carrington decided for the first
15
time that morning when he got your memo that you
16
were not performing your position to his
17
satisfaction, prepared a two-page memo outlining
18
other deficiencies, arranged Commissioner
19
Brown's attendance and participation in the
20
meeting and met with you for three and a half to
21
four hours about his concerns?
22
testimony?
Is that your
23
A.
My testimony is my testimony.
24
Q.
Well, is what I just summarized your
25
belief?
1-800-325-3376


Page 182
1
MR. LOWE:
Well, I object to the
form.
Why do you need to summarize his
testimony when he's testified?
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
Well, I'm not -You just said I summarized
your testimony for you and do you agree with my
summary, and the answer is no.
8
9
10
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Your theory is that
the April 2nd memo led to an outcome; is that

right?
11
A.
It clearly did, yes.
Yeah.
12
Q.
And the outcome that you've talked
13
about in part was the counseling on that same
14
afternoon; right?
15
MR. WILSON:
16
MR. LOWE:
Objection to form.
Objection.
In part.
17
A.
In part.
18
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
19
you is this:
20
that before receipt of a memo from you on April
21
the 2nd, 2013, that Commissioner Carrington was
22
entirely satisfied and pleased with your
23
performance as county attorney?
24
25
A.
And so my question to
Is it your testimony here today
Well, if you believe what he said in
the newspaper in October, November, whenever, I
1-800-325-3376


Page 183
1
would have to believe he was telling the truth
in November of the prior year.
that was the first I'd heard of any concern that
he had about my job performance from him or
anyone else.
Q.
Do you have Sewell 3?

MR. WILSON:
Here you go.
A.
Yes.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
10
I don't know --
Thank you.
Am I correct that this is the memo
11
that you got on the morning of April the 8th of
12
2013?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And that you were put on leave with
15
pay; is that right?
16
A.
That's right.
17
Q.
So as of the point of going on this
18
leave, was there any financial sacrifice of any
19
kind?
20
A.
For me?
21
Q.
For you, yes.
22
A.
Well, it was leave with pay.
23
Q.
So no benefits or any other --
24
anything else, nothing else was taken away while
25
you were on leave when you went on leave; is
1-800-325-3376


Page 184
1
that right?
A.
Well, I mean access to my office,
access to my personal stuff, things of that
nature were inherent in this.
Q.
You were given access to your office
to the extent you needed access to any personal
items; right?
A.
in.
I was given the opportunity to get
I mean, it was -- it was clear -- it was
10
clear to me when I got this on April 8th that I
11
was going to be fired.
12
been made simply because this document told me,
13
I think, that -- yeah, please let me know if
14
you want to schedule a mutually convenient time
15
to remove my items from the office.
16
very clear to me that the effort was going to be
17
made to terminate me that morning.
18
Q.
The decision had already
That seemed
On Monday, April 8th, you've
19
described some of what went on that morning.
20
you have a concealed weapon permit?
21
A.
I do.
22
Q.
And do you carry a concealed weapon
23
at any time?
24
A.
25
I have -- I keep one or sometimes I
have one in my vehicle.
1-800-325-3376
Do
I've never had one in


Page 185
1
my vehicle on county property.
one in the courthouse, I've never had one on my
body, on my person, while on duty as the county
attorney or as assistant county attorney.
Q.
I've never had
But carrying a weapon doesn't make
someone an automatic threat that they're about
to use it, does it?
MR. LOWE:
speculate.
10
11
That's asking him to
A.
I can't tell you what's in someone
else's mind, I don't know.
12
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Well, you've made
13
emphasis, as I heard you, about the security
14
guard who came down there being armed.
15
MR. WILSON:
Objection to form.
16
A.
Just fact.
17
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
It is just a fact.
18
So what I'm asking you is, isn't he armed all
19
day?
20
21
MR. LOWE:
point to this?
David, I mean, is there a
I mean, I --
22
MR. SMITH:
23
MR. LOWE:
Yeah, there is a point.

Well, ask him a direct
24
question about guns or knives or bombs or
25
something.
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Page 186
1
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Well, that is a
direct question, does he wear his gun in the
regular performance of his duties at the
courthouse?
A.
That security guard?
Q.
Yes.
A.
I guess.
8
9
I suppose.
He had it on
that day.
Q.
There's no reason to imply that -- no
10
reason to think that he armed himself to come
11
excuse you from the property?
12
13
14
15
A.
Other than the fact that he was
there.
Q.
I'm saying that he armed himself to
do that?
16
MR. LOWE:
I think the point is they
17
didn't need an armed guard or guard or any
18
escort, period.
19
the letter.
20
I mean, if you've got some points to make with
21
this witness, let's make them.
22
ridiculous.
The woman could have handed him
Now, I don't -- it's getting late,
That's
23
MR. SMITH:
I have questions.
24
MR. LOWE:
Okay.
25
MR. SMITH:
I'm continuing to ask
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Ask them.


Page 187
1
them and I'm addressing things that only came up
this morning.
MR. LOWE:
I don't think there was
any emphasis on the fact that he was -- he may
have been intimidated by someone that was armed.
6
7
MR. SMITH:
Q.
I disagree.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Did you understand
from your April 8th memo that you got that the
county was reminding you of the attorney/client
10
11
12
13
privilege?
A.
I understood that David Carrington
was saying whatever David Carrington said here.

Q.
14
Excuse me -- pardon me.

In the April 8th memo it says, during
15
this time period you are instructed to have no
16
verbal, written or other contact with any county
17
employees or any professionals hired by the
18
county, including but not limited to the
19
county's legal staff and the county's outside
20
legal counsel.
21
received the memo?
22
A.
Did you read that when you first
Not when I first received the memo.
23
I read it later in the day.
24
sentence, put the memo in my vehicle and spoke
25
to the security officer and -- and Demetrius and
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I read the first


Page 188
1
told them that I knew they were probably very
embarrassed to be doing this, and I left.
read the remainder of it later in the day.
Q.
And I
In the April the 12th, 2013 hearing,
Commissioner Carrington spoke at the beginning.
Let me read you what he said.
some questions about it.
starting at the end of the first sentence, so
I'm going to start with the second sentence:
Okay?
I want to ask you

And I'm
10
Mr. Sewell was placed on administrative leave
11
with pay because a majority of the commissioners
12
felt like he had not acted in the best interests
13
of his client, the county, in bankruptcy
14
settlement negotiations with our creditors.
15
When placed on administrative leave with pay on
16
Monday, April the 8th, 2013, Mr. Sewell was
17
instructed in writing to have no verbal, written
18
or other contact with any county employees or
19
any professionals hired by the county, including
20
but not limited to the county's legal staff and
21
the county's outside legal counsel, yet Monday
22
evening after being placed on administrative
23
leave with pay earlier that morning, Mr. Sewell
24
instructed the county's outside counsel that
25
they were not authorized to attend a previously
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1
scheduled creditor negotiation session in
Dallas, the very next day, Tuesday, April 9th,
that they were not authorized to negotiate with
the creditors on behalf of the county even
though Commissioners Stephens and Knight would
be participating in the negotiations, and they
would not be paid for any of their legal fees if
they attended the negotiations in Dallas.
Now, did you hear what I read?
10
A.
Yeah.
11
Q.
Okay.
And my question is I'm not
12
aware in the committee meeting of April 12th of
13
your denying that allegation.
14
allegation true?
Is this
15
A.
What is the allegation?
16
Q.
That on the night of that -- on the
17
night of April the 8th at 9:30 p.m. Central
18
Daylight Time, that you made such communications
19
to the county's outside counsel.
20
isn't it?
21
A.
That's true,
You -- I'm sorry, I'm confused.
22
You're asking me if something that David
23
Carrington read on April the 12th which
24
referenced the reason that I was put on
25
administrative leave the morning of April the
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Page 190
1
8th was because of something I did the evening
of April the 8th?
Q.
No.
A.
Because that's what I thought you
said, and I don't understand how I could be put
on leave on the morning of April the 8th for
something that had not occurred.
8
9
Q.
That was not my question.
If I
phrased it that way, that was not my intention.
10
I was reading what he had read in the hearing.
11
My question is simply this:
12
meeting the subject was raised that after you
13
were put on leave on the morning of the 8th,
14
that on that night of the 8th, some 12 to 14
15
hours later at 9:30 p.m. that night, that you
16
did communicate and issue directives to outside
17
counsel as Mr. Carrington said in his statement?
18
A.
In the committee
Not as Mr. Carrington said in his
19
statement.
His statement contained
20
inaccuracies.
21
Q.
But putting aside what Mr. Carrington
22
said, is it true that you contacted the county's
23
outside counsel on the night of April the 8th at
24
9:30 p.m. and told them that they were not
25
authorized to make any settlement officer --
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Page 191
1
offer to any GO creditor or warrant holder?
2
3
A.
the county's outside attorneys.
4
5
It's true that I responded to some of
Q.
Is it true that you said what I just
read?
A.
What you just read was part of
discussions that had gone on.
And it's not true
that this was not addressed at all in the April
12th hearing.
It was addressed, but it was
10
addressed in a way that would not reveal what
11
communications occurred between the outside
12
lawyers and me.
13
part of that, David, was -- was the discussion
14
on April 12 about what a lawful order is and is
15
not.
16
Q.
And that was part of the --
And I want to ask about that.
I'm
17
just -- before we go to your view on those
18
rules, I just wanted to get the facts there.
19
Did you communicate with those lawyers?
20
THE WITNESS:
21
(COUNSEL AND WITNESS CONFERRING.)
22
MR. LOWE:
Let me talk to you.
All right.
If you're
23
going to question him about communications with
24
outside counsel, are you going to waive the
25
privilege on it, on what his answer may be?
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Page 192
1
I mean, you've sat here and you've read certain
alleged comments that were made to and from
these outside lawyers.
this or --
MR. SMITH:
Are we going to get into
All I have done is we've
provided this transcript to the plaintiffs --
not the transcript, the recording.
8
9
MR. LOWE:
question.
Well, it's a simple
Since I'm asking the questions now,
10
it's a simple question.
You want to get into
11
this?
12
you have to waive the privilege.
13
these questions about conversations with outside
14
counsel, he's going to have to invoke the
15
privilege.
If you do and you want him to answer it,
16
MR. SMITH:
Otherwise, all
And is that different
17
than the statements that he made in the hearing
18
that day?
19
MR. LOWE:
He was asked to respond to
20
things during the hearing.
21
can ask him to confirm or deny the statement he
22
made in the hearing, but if you're asking
23
specific questions about conversations he had
24
with outside counsel at a particular place and
25
time, then I think he's going to have to invoke
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I don't know.
You


Page 193
1
the privilege or either you're going to waive
it.
3
4
5
MR. SMITH:
Well, we'll withdraw that
question.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
The -- do you
remember what your response was in the meeting
as to whether you did make contact with outside
counsel?
A.
My recollection of what was said in
10
the meeting on April the 12th was -- was no
11
discussion at all about any substantive contact
12
or discussion between me and outside counsel.
13
That's my memory of it.
14
15
16
Q.
And so did you in the meeting deny
doing it?
A.
I don't -- I don't recall whether I
17
did or didn't.
18
there or here communications between me and the
19
county's outside counsel.
20
21
22
Q.
I did not want to discuss either
And so -- so you didn't admit it or
deny it?
A.
I think I made a statement.
I don't
23
-- I'm not positive of this, but I think I made
24
a statement that I was not going to address the
25
substance of any communications between the
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Page 194
1
outside counsel and me.
words to that effect.
MR. LOWE:
I think I said that, or
I think Mr. Carrington
opened the hearing by making that accusation,
because I was in the hearing.
6
7
MR. SMITH:
Well, that's what I just
read.
MR. LOWE:
accusations.
10
denied them.
11
Q.
I know.
He made the
I don't think he confirmed them or
(BY MR. SMITH)
Well, I'm going one
12
question at a time to the -- the -- and so my
13
question was, did you deny it in the hearing
14
as -- as a contact that you made on the night of
15
April the 8th?
16
A.
My recollection, what I said in the
17
hearing had to do with the validity of this
18
purported order that he had given me.
19
recall trying to explain how an order can be
20
unlawful and how a lawyer cannot be ordered to
21
do something that violates the Professional
22
Rules of Conduct.
23
There was a lot of discussion of that.
24
25
Q.
And I
That was not a lawful order.
What I mean to be asking is, in the
meeting you explained why you did it and why you
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Page 195
1
thought it was appropriate to do it; isn't that
correct?
3
4
A.
I don't -- I don't think that's
correct at all.
MR. LOWE:
Well, if you have a
transcript, don't you think that would be
helpful?
8
9
MR. SMITH:
foundation for --
10
11
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
17
MR. LOWE:
on hard.
MR. SMITH:
I am coming on, I'm coming
All right.
Should we
take a break?
21
22
Come on, come on.
Get -- cut to it.
19
20
Show him the transcript,
read it, if you want to know what he said.
16
18
Well, but the transcript
is --
14
15
You laid the foundation,
there was a hearing, there's a transcript.
12
13
I'm trying to lay a
MR. LOWE:
No, we don't need to take
a break, we need to terminate this deposition.
23
MR. SMITH:
Well, then let me ask my
24
questions.
25
know these are appropriate questions.
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These are appropriate questions, you


Page 196
1
2
MR. LOWE:
It's redundant,
repetitive, irrelevant.
MR. SMITH:
Bad lawyering, stupid
counsel, you can put any label you want to on
it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't keep going
ahead.
MR. LOWE:
I'm not calling you that.
I wouldn't signify anyone that.
MR. SMITH:
10
MR. LOWE:
Well, I -And don't -- look, you're
11
making similar insinuations to things he did and
12
that's -- that's not what we're doing.
13
14
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
18
MR. LOWE:
Good.
Good.
And get the truth out of
him and let's go.
20
21
I want you to get to the
point and ask whatever you want.
17
19
I've
asked --
15
16
No, that's not.
MR. SMITH:
Good.
A straight answer
would be helpful.
22
MR. LOWE:
Well, you got to ask a
23
straight question, you can't ask these
24
convoluted, rambling questions.
25
MR. SMITH:
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Well, come on, Clay.


Page 197
1
2
3
MR. LOWE:
Come on, David.
You come
on.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Mr. Sewell, in the
meeting, you've discussed here today that you
talked about an unlawful order; is that right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And it was your judgment that being
told not to talk to outside counsel was an
unlawful order; is that right?
10
A.
It was my judgment that an order that
11
had on its face or in its effect a directive for
12
me to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct
13
is unlawful and is not to be followed.
14
Q.
Well, I'd rather get a direct answer
15
and then allow you to explain.
Were you saying
16
that the order in the April 8th memo was such an
17
unlawful order as it pertains to not having
18
contact with outside counsel?
19
A.
I believe I said that.
20
Q.
And so am I correct that because of
21
your application of the rules of ethics and
22
professional conduct, that you had that conduct
23
anyway, that conduct with outside -- contact
24
with outside counsel, excuse me.
25
A.
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I -- outside counsel contacted me all


Page 198
1
2
3
through the day of April 8th.

Q.
And so is that a yes, that you had
contact?
A.
It is what it is.
Q.
Well, I mean, I know it is what it is
you say.
asking did you contact them?
8
9
You say they contacted you.
A.
I'm
I -- I answered a question, several
questions, from outside lawyers all day long
10
that were contacting me with requests for what
11
is going on and what are we supposed to do.
12
Q.
And did you -- am I correct, then,
13
that you didn't comply with the directive of
14
April 8th?
15
A.
The directive of April 8th put me on
16
administrative leave with pay.
17
left the courthouse.
18
Q.
I complied, I
I mean in terms of the paragraph that
19
says don't have contact with the lawyers, you
20
did have contact with outside legal counsel?
21
22
A.
I spoke to lawyers several times
during the day.
23
Q.
After you got the leave notice?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
And did those contacts continue up
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Page 199
1
until 9:30 that night?
A.
I don't remember what time they
continued to.
Q.
on that late?
A.
Okay.
Would you deny that they went
I don't know.
I spoke with county
commissioners calling me on April the 8th, and
county employees and county department heads,
all of whom were calling asking for guidance
10
about what to do with a particular matter.
11
not believe that it's a lawful order to order me
12
not to talk to my clients or to the lawyers that
13
I supervise.
14
commissioner acting alone has no such authority.
15
Q.
I do
I don't -- I think one
And is there any documentation,
16
without getting into its content, is there any
17
documentation on April the 8th, before you had
18
contact with outside counsel on the subject of
19
this objection you had to the instructions in
20
the memo?
21
A.
I don't understand your question.
22
Q.
Did you -- is there any evidence of
23
your objection to the lawfulness of this
24
directive other than you saying it now?
25
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MR. WILSON:
Objection to form.


Page 200
1
A.
Let's just say that April the 8th,
Exhibit Number 3, was not the first time I had
been given a purported instruction to not talk
to or withhold information from other of my
clients or some of the county's lawyers.
didn't consider it then, I don't consider it now
to be lawful.
Q.
9
10
(BY MR. SMITH)
And I
This memo doesn't say
anything about withholding information, does it?

A.
It says you are instructed to have no
11
verbal, written or other contact.
12
broadly, if I'm called and asked a question, I'm
13
not to answer the question.
14
Q.
Applied
Is it correct that after your meeting
15
with Commissioners Carrington and Brown on April
16
the 2nd, that you had contact -- without getting
17
into the content of it, that you had contact
18
with outside counsel that was contrary to an
19
order given to you?
20
A.
There was no order given to me on
21
April 2nd.
I'm sorry, you're confusing me with
22
your date, you said April 2nd.
23
Q.
I did.
24
A.
I don't understand your question.
25
Q.
On the April 11th transcript, still
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Page 201
1
in this opening statement, the following is said
by Commissioner Carrington:
first time that Mr. Sewell had tried to
arbitrarily stop previously scheduled bankruptcy
settlement negotiation to the detriment of the
county.
six days earlier on Tuesday, April 2nd, that led
a majority of the commissioners to decide to
place Mr. Sewell on administrative leave with
This is not the
In fact, there was a similar event just
10
pay.
Commissioner Brown and I met with
11
Mr. Sewell for several hours in the afternoon of
12
Tuesday, April 2nd.
13
had a lengthy discussion about Mr. Sewell's
14
improper attempt to arbitrarily stop bankruptcy
15
negotiations in December 2012.
16
2012, during the first afternoon of an intense
17
three-day negotiating session with a significant
18
number of our creditors in New York City,
19
Mr. Sewell instructed our outside counsel to
20
stop negotiations, even though Commissioner
21
Stephens and I were present and actively
22
involved and some progress was being made.
23
Fortunately our outside counsel convinced
24
Mr. Sewell later that evening that his
25
instructions were not in the best interests of
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During our conversation we
On December 11,


Page 202
1
the county and the negotiations proceeded for
the next few days.
3
4
Did you deny that in the committee

meeting of April 12, 2013?
A.
Did I deny what?
Q.
Those facts that involved you?
MR. WILSON:
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
MR. SMITH:
15
MR. LOWE:
17
You said do you deny those
facts.
14
16
Yes, those accusations.
I asked if he denied it.
12
13
Those -- do you mean
accusations?
10
11
Objection to form.
I first said -Look -- listen, do you
have an answer to whatever it is he asked?

A.
I don't recall, sitting here today,
18
what dates or times I may have given
19
instructions to outside counsel about
20
negotiations.
21
occurred frequently.
22
Q.
I mean, that's something that
(BY MR. SMITH)
The next thing said
23
in the hearing transcript is that during the
24
April 2nd conversation -- April 2nd
25
conversation -- Mr. Sewell was clearly told and
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Page 203
1
he acknowledged that he was the attorney and
that the county represented by the commissioners
was the client.
frankly shocked to learn that several hours
later Mr. Sewell arbitrarily canceled a
previously scheduled general obligation debt
settlement conversation at 10:00 a.m. the next
morning, Wednesday, April 3rd.
I was disappointed and quite
In the committee meeting of April
10
12th, 2013, did you make any denial to that
11
statement?
12
A.
Which part of the statement?
13
Q.
Any part of it or all of it.
14
A.
I don't remember.
15
MR. SMITH:
16
THE WITNESS:
17
MR. WILSON:
About how long do you
MR. SMITH:
You know, I don't know,
18
Can we take a break?

Sure.
expect?
19
20
but I'm not going to be trying to go the seven
21
hours, there's no doubt about that.
22
23
MR. LOWE:
took was 35, 40 minutes.
24
25
Well, the last break you
MR. SMITH:
Yeah, I'm going to do
better this time.
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Page 204
1
MR. LOWE:
Does that mean more?
MR. SMITH:
No, of course not.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
definite time?
5
6
Why don't we set a
MR. SMITH:
enough.
Sure.
No, that's fair
Let's say 15 minutes.
MR. ADELSTEIN:
(Whereupon, a short recess was had,
4:39 p.m. - 4:53 p.m.)

(BY MR. SMITH)
Thank you.
10
Q.
Let me know when
11
you're ready.
12
A.
I'm good.
13
Q.
Was one of the concerns about your
14
style expressed to you by Commissioner
15
Carrington in the meeting with Commissioner
16
Brown about how aggressive and seemingly
17
motivated by self-interest you were at times?
18
Was that a topic presented to you?
19
A.
No, not that I recall.
20
Q.
In the committee meeting of April the
21
12th, did you say in one context, this is my
22
instructions, if I say we need to go neutral, we
23
need to go neutral, when I say speed up, we need
24
to speed up.
25
1-800-325-3376
Do you remember saying?


Page 205
1
2
A.
Vaguely.
I don't remember the
context of it.
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Before we look at
County Exhibit 10, as I recall your testimony
earlier about the privileged memo of April 2nd,
you said that the names of the senders on that
10
memo are you, Theo Lawson, Ted Hosp and Grace
11
Murphy.
12
Murphy, but is that your memory of the four
13
names of who sent that memo?
And you were less than sure about Grace
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And is that the memo that your theory
16
is led to your separation?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
And have any of the other three been
19
separated from their job assignment with the
20
county?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Mr. Lawson still works for the
23
county, doesn't he?
24
A.
Yeah, he does.
25
Q.
And so your colleague in the county
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Page 206
1
attorney's office who was on the memo is still
performing the same job as before; right?
A.
I don't know if he's performing --
he's still employed.
performing the same --
I don't know if he's
Q.
You don't know what he does?
A.
Right.
It's my understanding that
Ted Hosp, who was the lead outside lawyer at
your law firm, has been taken off the case.
10
I may be wrong about that.
11
Q.
Do you have any evidence of that?
12
A.
I do, but I think it would be
13
privileged.
14
Q.
15
He's still of record in the case and
he's moved to Montgomery.
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
Do you -- and Ms. Murphy is here with
18
us today; is that right?
19
A.
She's sitting in the room with us.
20
Q.
So according to your testimony, four
21
people sent the memo and one got fired?
22
23
MR. WILSON:
A.
Objection to form.
And the other -- other three got
24
their relationship and representing the county
25
in this case significantly altered, is my
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Page 207
1
2
understanding.
Q.
But again, you know --
(BY MR. SMITH)
Are you the only one
who's been terminated from employment of the
people who sent the memo?
A.
As far as I know.
Q.
All right.
Let me ask you to look at
County Exhibit 10.
Is this the agreement that
represents the terms of your settlement with the
county?
10
A.
Appears to be.
11
Q.
And you were in this April 12th
12
committee meeting that we've talked about during
13
your testimony today when the beginning of this
14
deal was struck; is that right?
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
A.
Well, when -- when the need for an
agreement was first broached, yes.

Q.
And then the broad financial terms
were outlined; right?

A.
Well, the broad terms generally were
outlined.
Q.
At the end of the April 13th
committee -- that was really my question.
23
A.
April 12.
24
Q.
Excuse me, April 12, 2013 meeting;
25
right?
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Page 208
1
A.
The -- yeah.
Q.
All right.
Now, I want to ask you
about the context in which that occurred.
correct that this committee, the administrative
services committee, when it takes action it's to
be referred on to the full commission in a
regular full commission meeting; is that right?
8
9
A.
Is it
In -- in the normal course of things,
that would be the normal course of operations.
10
Q.
Yeah.
11
A.
Of course, there was nothing normal
12
13
And so in this meeting --
about this event.

Q.
But in the meeting of April the 12th,
14
the discussion was had and then a vote was
15
taken; is that right?
16
A.
There was a vote taken.
17
Q.
And the vote in the committee was to
18
consider a resolution to terminate your
19
employment for cause; is that right?
20
A.
I think so.
21
Q.
And --
22
A.
Although I never saw -- I never
23
saw -- I don't recall having seen any document.
24
I just don't know -- I don't know that.
25
I think there must have been something to vote
1-800-325-3376
I mean,


Page 209
1
on but I don't think I ever saw it.
Q.
If your employment had been
terminated for cause, it would have had the
effect of denying or nullifying or preventing
the payment of the retirement conversion
benefit; is that right?
A.
No.
Q.
Well, if it were for cause and that
I don't believe that it would.
were upheld as the state of things, if that were
10
the outcome, does it have any effect on your
11
retirement conversion benefit at all?
12
A.
I don't think that it does.
13
Q.
So your testimony today is that at
14
the end of the committee meeting on April 12th
15
when they voted to pass a resolution
16
recommending that your employment be terminated
17
for cause, that you were not in any peril of
18
having the approximate nine-month salary
19
continuation period be pulled away and not owed
20
to you?
21
A.
22
23
Is that your testimony?

Not my -- my testimony is what I
said.
Q.
Well, I'm asking -- why I'm seeking
24
clarification is, are you saying that it wasn't
25
at risk with that vote?
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Page 210
1
A.
I told you -- you asked me the
question, I told you what I thought.
whether it was at risk or not or who might have
thought it was at risk, I mean, I -- I don't
know what other people were thinking.
Q.
No, I'm not asking what other people
were thinking.
at risk potentially?
A.
I didn't -- did you think it was
Well, everything was at risk
10
potentially.
11
Q.
12
I don't --
Including the retirement conversion
benefit in the face of that vote; right?
13
A.
Potentially.
14
Q.
And so the resolution that was made
15
after the vote that -- in which you kept the
16
retirement conversion benefit was -- was that
17
item that possibly was at risk; is that right?
18
A.
I don't know.
I --
19
Q.
The retirement conversion benefit is
20
paid to you under your severance agreement; is
21
that right?
22
A.
That's right.
23
Q.
That's my term.
It's called
24
agreement, what we've marked as County Exhibit
25
10.
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Page 211
1
So other than the retirement
conversion benefit, were you paid any money
as -- in your settlement deal?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
And I'm including in the retirement
conversion benefit there the vacation pay, which
is some -- some number of weeks, I think; is
that right?
A.
Right.
10
Q.
So other than that amount, whatever
11
that is, there wasn't any other money paid to
12
you in the context of your involuntarily
13
retiring, was there?
14
A.
Not that I'm aware of.
15
Q.
And were you represented by counsel
16
on April the 12th personally?
17
18
A.
represented or not.
19
20
I don't know if I was officially
Q.
Your counsel here today, Mr. Lowe,
was with you that day; is that right?
21
A.
He was in the room.
23
Q.
He was there as a colleague, friend?
24
A.
He was there.
25
Q.
All right.
22
He wasn't with
me.
1-800-325-3376
And did you have any


Page 212
1
thought that you had a claim as some sort of
whistle blower?
A.
When?
Q.
April 12th, the day that this deal
5
6
7
8
9
was made?
A.
I don't recall when I might have had
a particular thought.
Q.
In the settlement you weren't paid
any money separate from involuntary retirement
10
in the sense of different money for other
11
claims, were you?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
And as a lawyer, you're well versed
14
in what rights you may or may not have; is that
15
right?
16
A.
I -- I'm a lawyer.
17
Q.
But your -- your honest assessment
18
19
20
21
would be that you're a good lawyer, isn't it?

A.
I'm a lawyer.
I'm not here to boast
or brag or denigrate or anything else.

Q.
All right.
If you look at paragraph
22
five of the County Exhibit 10, am I correct that
23
you have received no greater benefits, rights or
24
privileges than anyone who takes involuntary
25
retirement?
1-800-325-3376


Page 213
1
2
3
A.
I'm not aware that I've received any
additional, extra, greater things.

Q.
All right.
Paragraph eight of County
Exhibit 10 provides confirmation of your
professional responsibility and imposes
contractual consequences for a breach of that;
is that right?
MR. WILSON:
MR. LOWE:
Objection to form.
Asks for a legal
10
conclusion.
11
this case or -- what's the relevance of going
12
through his agreement?
13
going to contest it for some reason, are you?
14
15
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
I'm getting so close to
I know, but this is
important.
18
19
Are you -- you're not
being finished.
16
17
Are we contesting his agreement in
MR. SMITH:
It is important,
absolutely.
20
MR. LOWE:
I mean, he has an
21
agreement with the county.
22
questioning the validity of it, are you?
23
MR. SMITH:
24
MR. LOWE:
25
You're not
Oh, no.
You're not questioning
whether he's complied with it, are you?
1-800-325-3376


Page 214
1
MR. SMITH:
ask questions, not answer them.
questions --
MR. LOWE:
litigation.
his life.
Well, today's my day to
Questions relevant to this
We're not here to open the door to
MR. SMITH:
You produced this
document, so it's clearly --
MR. LOWE:
It's a public record.
10
MR. SMITH:
11
scope of what we're here about.
12
And these are
MR. LOWE:
I'm saying it's in the
I don't see it and I don't
13
believe the plaintiffs' attorney would agree to
14
that, but, you know, finish up.
15
I want to know if you're contesting his
16
compliance with this agreement.
17
MR. SMITH:
Ask him --
And I want to know
18
whether you're instructing him not to answer my
19
questions --
20
21
MR. LOWE:
Did you hear me
say that?
22
MR. SMITH:
23
MR. LOWE:
24
No, no.
-- unless I answer you.

No, I'm asking you a
question.
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. SMITH:
I know, I'm saying --


Page 215
1
MR. LOWE:
it, though, are you?
MR. SMITH:
You're not going to answer
I'm trying to get
finished and I'm close.
MR. LOWE:
Well, let's make a point.
Let's -- this has nothing to do with this case.
All you're doing is berating him about an
agreement --
9
10
MR. SMITH:
That is not true.
That
is not true.
11
MR. LOWE:
12
MR. SMITH:
13
MR. LOWE:
14
MR. SMITH:
15
MR. LOWE:
Yes, it is.
I am not berating him.
Oh, yes, you are.
This is -- no, I am not.
You're intimidating him
16
with this agreement.
17
that he has some obligation that he's violated
18
with the county.
You know you are.
19
MR. SMITH:
20
MR. LOWE:
21
way I'm reading it.
22
23
No -Yes, you are.
MR. SMITH:
counts.
24
25
You're absolutely implying
That's the
Well, you're wrong on all
You're absolutely wrong on all counts.

MR. LOWE:
Okay.
Well, then let's go
through it some more.
1-800-325-3376


Page 216
1
MR. SMITH:
And -- and this is a case
that involves issues about privilege and I am
confirming a privileged topic right now for my
record.
MR. LOWE:
He will admit and confirm
to you all day and all night that he has a duty
to protect the privilege of the county.
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
10
you it sounds like.
What are you doing now?

I don't know, arguing with
11
MR. SMITH:
12
beating me up to prolong this.
13
MR. LOWE:
14
No, I'm not beating you
up.
15
MR. SMITH:
16
MR. LOWE:
17
You're really just
Yeah, you are.

All right.
Let's stop.
Ask your question.
18
MR. SMITH:
19
MR. WILSON:
Come on.
The only thing -- I did
20
not show him this agreement.
21
asked about is whether he considered it
22
confidential.
23
that I'm going to -- not argue that it's
24
invalid, I'll give you that stipulation.
25
not sure what this has to do with anything.
1-800-325-3376
The only thing I
If you want a stipulation from me
I'm


Page 217
1
MR. SMITH:
Well --
MR. WILSON:
You could just ask him
is it a binding agreement -- says it's a
contract.
MR. SMITH:
You know, if we had
talked before the deposition about what
everyone's objectives were, then that would make
some sense, but as it is, I think I just need --
MR. WILSON:
Go ahead.
10
MR. SMITH:
-- to do the best I can
11
to ask the questions about it.
12
MR. WILSON:
13
MR. SMITH:
Okay.
Go ahead.
And I think that in this
14
case where your objectives are what they seem to
15
be, that this is highly relevant.
16
17
MR. WILSON:
Q.
Go ahead.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Now, to go back and
18
cover what I was in the middle of trying to
19
cover, is it true that you did not receive any
20
money on top of retirement or sick leave
21
conversion benefits to compensate you as a
22
whistle-blower victim of some unlawful
23
retaliation?
24
25
Is that true?
MR. LOWE:
Where does it say whistle
blower in here?
1-800-325-3376


Page 218
1
MR. SMITH:
MR. LOWE:
that in here?
4
5
It doesn't.
Well, why are you throwing
Your question -- I'm confused.
MR. SMITH:
Well, just let me --
please, please.
MR. LOWE:
That's -- I just think
that's an improper question, but -- now that I
know that, just ask it again, that that's not
part of the document.
10
11
MR. SMITH:
Would you please read my
question?
12
13
MR. LOWE:
14
MR. WILSON:
Object to the form.

Asked and answered.
15
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
Please?
16
A.
As I've told you before, the only
17
compensation that I'm receiving is sick leave,
18
retirement.
19
Q.
20
I think we've covered that.
Has the county performed as of today
all of its obligations under the agreement?
21
MR. WILSON:
Objection to form.
22
A.
I don't know.
23
Q.
(BY MR. SMITH)
To your knowledge,
24
have they complied with the agreement as of
25
today?
1-800-325-3376


Page 219
1
A.
I don't -- they have complied as of
today with paying the sick leave conversion
benefit.
if it fully paid other benefits or not.
5
6
Other -- other benefits, I don't know
Q.
Do you have any knowledge of any
failure to perform as of today?
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
A.
Pay the health insurance claim.
What is it?
I
10
don't have any evidence that has been paid.
11
I'm getting letters that it has not been paid as
12
recently as about -- I don't know, about 10 days
13
ago.
14
15
Q.
And what is the dollar amount of this
item?
16
A.
I think it's $800.
17
Q.
And is this the one that we've
18
addressed previously?
19
A.
20
previously.
21
Q.
22
23
24
25
And
It's the one question we've discussed
And is it the one that I understood
has been corrected?

A.
The one that you represented has
been, yes.
Q.
1-800-325-3376
Have you communicated with me before


Page 220
1
this moment, again, that it hasn't been
resolved?
A.
No.
Q.
All right.
Well, then send me the
collection notices because it's not my error and
it's not the county's error --
MR. WILSON:
MR. SMITH:
MR. WILSON:
10
No, it's not.

I thought we were here
to ask questions.
11
12
Is that a question?
MR. SMITH:
No, it's not, it's a
debate because we're having debates.
13
MR. WILSON:
14
having a debate about whether an
15
eight-hundred-dollar claim has been paid.
16
right?
17
18
MR. SMITH:
So don't spend my time
Break for a couple of
minutes.
19
MR. WILSON:
20
21
had, 5:15 p.m. - 5:17 p.m.)
22
MR. SMITH:
23
All
All right.
Okay.
Thank you.
We
don't have anything further.
24
25
1-800-325-3376
MR. WILSON:
I have one.
RE-EXAMINATION


Page 221
1
BY MR. WILSON:
Q.
Mr. Smith asked you about County
Exhibit 9.
Do you have that there?
That is the
redlined version of the resolution that you
discussed.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Now, I want you to listen to a
portion of the April 12th, 2013 administrative
services committee meeting, and tell me if you
10
can identify the speaker.
11
12
MR. SMITH:
Excuse me.
Can you pause
that one second?
13
MR. WILSON:
14
MR. SMITH:
Yeah.
Can you identify the time
15
point in the tape?
16
track that, you know.
17
MR. WILSON:
Can we?
18
MS. KOORJI:
I can give you the exact
19
point in the tape.
20
21
I mean, sometimes you can
MR. SMITH:
know.
22
MS. KOORJI:
23
MR. SMITH:
24
Yeah, just so I could
Sure.
That would help me find
it on mine.
25
1-800-325-3376
MS. KOORJI:
Yeah, no problem.
It's


Page 222
1
34 -- 34 minutes.
2
3
MR. SMITH:
Okay.
Thank you.
Who is
the speaker going to be?
MR. WILSON:
Well, I'm asking him.
That's the question.
MR. SMITH:
MR. WILSON:
Start it again, Alaizah.
MS. KOORJI:
Okay.
THE WITNESS:
10
All right.
Thank you.
Ready?
Yeah.
(PLAYING RECORDING.)
There are
11
changes to the resolution that you need to make
12
to make that document comply with the existing
13
law of Alabama and you got the memo from me
14
about that.
15
A.
It's me.
16
Q.
(BY MR. WILSON)
(RECORDING STOPPED.)
That's you, and you
17
recognized yourself as saying there are changes
18
in the resolution that you need to make to make
19
that document comply with the existing law of
20
Alabama and you got the memo from me about that?
21
22
A.
I -- I didn't hear all of it, but I
recognize my voice.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
Sounds right.
25
Q.
Was Exhibit 9, which is your redline,
1-800-325-3376


Page 223
1
the proposal you made in your April 2 memo to
bring the resolution of organization into
compliance with the law?
MR. LOWE:
Is that privileged?
Do
you need to take another break to think about
that one?
7
8
MR. SMITH:
me.
I can't think of any --
9
10
It seems privileged to
MR. WILSON:
Number 9 was discussed
publicly, you established that, at a hearing.
11
MR. SMITH:
12
MR. MITCHELL:
13
You talked about it in
the context of the March --
14
15
I understand.
MR. SMITH:
I was talking about it
only in the context of an open meeting.
16
MR. WILSON:
17
MR. SMITH:
18
into something else.
19
Do you have -You're trying to make it
MR. WILSON:
Well, I'm asking if this
20
was the implementation of what he was
21
recommending.
22
then I think you probably waived the April 2
23
memo.
If the answer to that is yes,
24
MR. MITCHELL:
25
MR. LOWE:
1-800-325-3376
Not on that basis.
Does anyone have a copy of


Page 224
1
the April 2nd memo that -- could reference this?
MR. SMITH:
on that question, respectfully.
4
5
MR. LOWE:
Well, that settles it for
them, so --
6
7
We assert the privilege
MR. WILSON:
does.
MR. SMITH:
MR. WILSON:
10
I suspect Barnett Wright
I'm sorry?
I suspect Barnett Wright
has a copy.
11
That's fine, if you're asserting
12
privilege, I would like that on the record.
13
then --
14
MR. SMITH:
15
MR. WILSON:
16
THE REPORTER:
17
MR. LOWE:
Was I on the record?

Was it?
Yes.
And then as we've done all
18
day, I instruct him not to answer based on
19
privilege.
20
MR. WILSON:
21
Nothing further.
22
And that's fine.

Thank you very much
for your time.
23
THE WITNESS:
24
THE REPORTER:
25
And
Thank you.
One thing I need to
put on the record, this is a read and sign?
1-800-325-3376

MR. WILSON:
THE REPORTER:
This is a read and sign.

Thank you.
3
4
FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT
5
6
(Said deposition was concluded at 5:20 p.m. on
the 30th day of July, 2013.)
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1-800-325-3376

CERTIFICATE
2
3
STATE OF ALABAMA
AT LARGE
I hereby certify that the above and
foregoing deposition was taken down by me in
stenotype and the questions and answers thereto
were transcribed by means of computer-aided
transcription and that the foregoing represents
10
a true and correct transcript of the testimony
11
given by said witness upon said deposition.
12
I further certify that I am neither
13
of counsel nor of kin to the parties to the
14
action, nor am I in anywise interested in the
15
result of said cause.
16
I further certify that I am duly
17
licensed as a Certified Court Reporter by the
18
Alabama Board of Court Reporting as evidenced by
19
the ACCR number following my name below.
20
21
22
23
Jane B. Elliott, CCR
24
ACCR #306 - Expires 9-30-13
25
Notary Public - Expires 11-09-16
1-800-325-3376


Page 1
A
a
2:5,5,5 4:2 6:24 7:2,5
7:8,9,10,16,19,21,25
8:7,10,21 9:7,9,12,17
9:19,24 10:3,10,15
10:18,19,20,20 11:2
11:4,6,7,13,17,22
12:2,13,17,18,21,24
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13:20 14:6,10,13,17
14:17,20,23 15:2,5
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19:21 20:9,12,21,24
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22:25 23:4,9,10,19
23:23 24:1,4,7,10,13
25:1,4,9,13,16,18,21
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27:2,6,9,12,14,17,17
27:21,23,25 28:3,7
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31:17,21,24 32:3,5,8
32:10,10,15,18,21,22
33:1,4,11,12,14,18
33:23,25 34:2,4,5,8,9
34:15,17,21,21,24
35:3,3,5,12,14,15,16
35:19,22 36:20,25
37:9,13,14,15,21
38:3,6,17 39:3,10,12
39:13,16,16,19,21,25
40:2,3,5,7,10,14,24
41:6,13,13,19 42:2,7
42:17,20 43:2,6,7,9
43:24 44:3,6,8,11,20
45:2,12,13 46:2,10
46:12,12,13,18,19,19
46:25 47:2,10,12,14
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48:5,6,9,15,19,24
1-800-325-3376
49:1,7,13,20,24 50:2
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54:1,6,18 55:1,7,11
55:14,15,18,23 56:11
56:13,13,14 57:1,15
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63:6,16 64:12 65:2,6
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71:3,5,6,8,13,18,21
72:1,3,3,8,11,18,21
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82:11,17,21,22 83:2
83:8,12,15,19 84:3,7
84:15,20,21 85:4,22
86:5,9,11,13,15,16
86:18,22 87:1,2,9,9
87:11,11 88:3,7,7,8,8
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88:24 89:5,7,10,13
89:15,18,21,22,24
90:2,4,5,13,17,20,21
90:22,25 91:1,6,9,17
91:21,25 92:3,4,8,13
92:16,20,23,25 93:3
93:4,6,7,7,9,13,16,20
93:23,25 94:1,4,5,7,9
94:11,13,18,21,23,25
95:2 96:4,8,11,17,23
97:2,7,22 98:6,8,10
98:10,13,18,23,23
99:20,21 100:4,5,6
100:13,16,19,22
101:5,8,8,15,23
102:8,19 103:7,13,13
103:15,20,25 104:4,9
104:12,19,23 105:2,4
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106:4,7,10,12,16,20
107:1,3,9,15,20,23
108:1,5,10,14,15
109:3,8,10,12,15,15
109:17,21 110:16,18
110:23 111:2,7,14,16
111:23 112:6,8,12,14
112:16,16,18,19,24
113:4,12,17,21 114:2
114:5,7,8,10,18,20
115:2,8,12,24 116:5
116:6,11,21 117:2,8
117:12,13,14 118:3,7
118:10,13,15 119:1,4
119:6,12,14,17 120:2
120:15,16 121:16,21
122:5,7,12,14,18,23
122:25 123:1,6,17,19
123:23,24 124:3,7,8
124:11,12,12,14,15
124:18,21 125:1,10
125:10,12,13,15,15
125:20,24 126:2,8,10
126:13,16,18,21
127:4,10,12,14,16,16
128:1,5,8,11,17
129:6,10,16,18,24
130:2,4,8,9,11,20,23
131:2,2,9,13,14,14
131:16,17,18,24
132:2,8,11,14 133:6
133:12,25 134:6,18
134:22 135:1,1,7,7
135:19 136:2,6,14,22
136:25 137:5,8,12,14
137:15,17,20 138:13
138:22 139:1,6,10,10
139:12,18 140:5,11
140:15,19,20,22,23
141:1,5,12,14,20,24
142:7,23,25 143:7,10
143:13,14,15,15,16
143:20,24 144:4,9,12
144:15,19,21,25
145:3,8,9,11,13,15
145:18 146:3,9,13,18
146:25 147:16,18,22
148:3,8,10,11,13,15
148:17,18,24 149:17
149:21,24 150:4,7,12
150:16,19,22,23,25
151:4,6,8,12,18,22
152:2,8,11,14,22
153:7,12,12,24 154:9
154:12,20,23,24,25
155:3,7,8,10,12,12
155:20,25 156:1,3,10
156:12,15,19,22
157:3,20,25 158:5,11
158:11,16,19,23
159:2,3,10,12,14,16
160:11,17,21 161:5,6
161:8,15,17,19,19,20
161:24,24 162:1,1,3
162:6,19,21,25 163:4
163:6,12,14,23 164:1
164:4,8,9,11,11,18
164:20 165:1,3,5,10
165:13,15,17,22,22
166:4,8,8,19,22
167:5,8,10,15,18,20
167:24 168:4,11,12
168:17,18,25 169:4,7
169:8,10,12,14,18,21
169:21 170:2,7,12,21
170:23 171:1,7,9,15
171:24 172:3,6,7,10
172:13,14,14 173:5
174:15,23,24,24
175:2,5,6 176:1,3,9


Page 2
176:13,16,20,23
177:1,4,13,18,22
178:4,8,12,16,19,25
179:1,20 180:1,5,12
180:20,20,24 181:1,2
181:4,9,12,17,20,23
182:11,17,20,24
183:8,13,16,20,22
184:2,8,14,20,21,22
184:24 185:5,10,16
185:17,20,22,23
186:1,5,7,12 187:11
187:22 188:11,25
189:10,15,21 190:4
190:18 191:2,6,10,14
192:8,10,24 193:9,16
193:22,22,24 194:12
194:14,16,20,22,23
195:3,5,8,11,11,20
195:22 196:20,22
197:6,10,11,14,19,25
198:2,4,8,8,15,21,24
199:2,6,10,11,21
200:1,3,10,12,20,24
201:6,8,13,17 202:5
202:17 203:5,12,14
203:15 204:3,8,12,18
204:19 205:1,4,14,17
205:21,24 206:3,7,12
206:16,19,23 207:5
207:10,15,19,23
208:1,6,8,11,14,16
208:16,18,20,22
209:7,12,15,21 210:1
210:9,13,18,22 211:4
211:9,14,17,21,23,24
212:1,3,6,7,12,13,16
212:16,18,19,19
213:1,6,9 214:9,23
215:5 216:1,3,6,22
217:3,3,21 218:16,22
219:1,7,9,16,19,23
220:3,7,11,14,17,20
221:6,7 222:15,21,24
223:10,25 224:10,25
225:1 226:10,17
1-800-325-3376
aback
73:13
abide
24:22
abilities
48:2,13
ability
10:1 56:25 57:2
able
87:2 111:20
about
7:8 14:15 16:14 17:19
18:23 19:6,12,17
20:17,18,19 21:6
25:6 26:15 28:5,8
29:21 30:2,11,13,13
30:19 31:1,4,15 32:1
36:12 37:11 38:3,14
39:15 42:1,3,6 43:14
43:15 44:24 45:4,7
45:11,23 46:2,5,11
48:13 49:5,21,25
50:2 52:14 55:13,19
55:21 56:11,15 57:2
59:24 60:12,21 61:9
61:25 62:6 63:16,20
64:10,19 65:10 67:8
69:14 70:12 74:19
75:12,20 82:16 84:20
85:2,12,20 90:9
93:17 94:17,23 95:16
95:23 96:10 98:23
99:13 100:1,7 101:6
101:9,22 102:16
103:8 107:17,19
109:18 110:20
112:10,12 113:16,23
114:16,17 115:6,12
116:10,20,23 117:7
118:23,25 120:21
121:5,7 123:8,25
124:1 134:20,22
136:2 138:10 140:3
142:2 144:7 145:25
148:6 149:5,6 150:8
150:14,15,17 153:18
154:3 155:10,25
156:3,8,24 160:3,4,8
160:15 161:9,18,20
161:22 162:1,3 163:2
163:9 165:20,21
166:21 167:13 170:1
170:5,11,24 171:10
172:24 174:4 176:19
176:21 177:5,6 180:8
180:13 181:7,21
182:13 183:4 185:6
185:13,24 188:7
191:14,16,23 192:13
192:23 193:11 197:5
199:10 200:9 201:13
202:19 203:17,21
204:13,16 205:8,11
206:10 207:12 208:3
208:12 214:11 215:7
216:2,21 217:6,11
219:12,12 220:14
221:2 222:14,20
223:5,12,14
above
6:11 226:5
absolutely
26:17 27:21 76:12
83:2,8 127:8 131:8
131:18 142:25 143:4
165:15 213:19
215:16,23
abundance
64:23
accept
140:20 141:15
acceptable
47:8 75:16
access
96:6 110:1 179:7
184:2,3,5,6
accomplish
134:21
accordance
116:15
according
157:5 206:20
ACCR
2:2 226:19,24
accurate
107:25 131:8
accurately
120:10
accusation
194:4
accusations
194:9 202:9,10
acknowledge
62:3 63:17 148:23
165:13
acknowledged
203:1
acquire
94:6
across
136:13 142:9 175:7
act
36:8 42:16 154:23
163:3,7 168:2,4,8,12
168:19 169:2,6,10
170:4,8,14,20 171:10
171:12 172:2,9
acted
79:13 80:3 165:4
188:12
acting
6:3 199:14
action
1:6,11,16 74:20 88:5
124:9,11 208:5
226:14
actions
35:25
actively
80:15 81:5 201:21
actually
13:21 37:12 68:5 76:3
130:16 132:22
143:13 145:13
add
43:24 148:10,11
149:17 152:7
addition


Page 3
18:21
additional
16:15 51:2 213:2
address
44:17 92:15 167:8
168:20 172:7,7,14,15
193:24
addressed
67:4 163:7 167:4
191:8,9,10 219:18
addresses
169:2
addressing
57:10,16 67:1 187:1
Adelstein
2:16 17:14,17 71:11
71:15 101:3 102:4
108:6 109:23 110:6
113:14 115:4 118:20
204:3,7
adequate
133:16
adjourned
15:12
adjust
161:18
adjusted
145:20
adjusting
151:15
adjustments
150:10 152:6
administrative
26:25 27:4 71:1 72:5
73:5,17 74:18 76:10
76:15,24 77:3,8,14
77:19 78:9,10 79:8
79:11 88:5 92:18
172:17 188:10,15,22
189:25 198:16 201:9
208:4 221:8
admit
193:20 216:5
admitted
14:8 15:23
admittedly
1-800-325-3376
138:5
adopt
97:22
adopted
93:23 160:22
adoption
42:15
advance
13:8 67:4 171:22
180:13
advanced
154:7
advice
20:17 30:19,25 31:10
35:18,20,24 53:17
54:6,20,22 55:9 66:2
66:7,10,16,22 68:12
70:10 92:5,6 174:21
advise
134:19
advisory
92:24
AEA
143:10
affect
116:25
affirm
152:17
AFFIRMATIVE
38:18 50:19 52:3
129:10 136:5
after
7:11 23:22 24:7 36:20
57:25 70:25 98:3
154:1 156:18,23,25
157:21 162:16
173:23 188:22
190:12 198:23
200:14 210:15
afternoon
32:17,24 52:11,13,17
66:5 80:9,25 82:10
84:21 182:14 201:11
201:16
again
55:2 60:2 80:20 97:6
130:18 131:7 152:1

156:4 162:12 167:10
172:13,18 177:7
178:24 207:1 218:8
220:1 222:7
against
1:8,13,18 12:19
agencies
165:8 166:2 167:13
agenda
130:25 131:20 169:11
agendas
130:10,16
aggressive
204:16
ago
12:3 139:13 219:13
agree
18:1 24:22 36:4
106:24 127:11
134:17 140:17
170:15,22,22 182:6
214:13
agreed
56:24 89:5 140:20
agreement
5:22 55:17 78:19 89:8
89:10,13,20 90:4
137:20 173:24 207:7
207:16 210:20,24
213:10,12,21 214:16
215:8,16 216:20
217:3 218:20,24
ahead
28:10 41:12 68:8
175:23 196:6 217:9
217:12,16
airline
82:10
airliner
81:20
airliners
81:22
al
1:9,12,14,17,19
Alabama
1:2,9,14 3:7,17,23 4:6

6:3,8 27:17 41:25
74:7,16 92:14 96:2
135:25 136:8,20
142:23 143:2,3 144:4
167:1 222:13,20
226:3,18
Alaizah
4:10 222:7
alert
78:16
all
10:19 15:19 17:18
19:10,19 20:11 21:3
24:2 26:2 27:6 28:25
30:23 31:17 34:23
37:4 38:14,24 42:24
44:1,13 46:10,17
47:20 54:25 57:18
63:24 68:21 75:21
77:23 78:25 82:18
84:7 88:23 90:8
94:21 95:24 103:3
105:5 112:17 113:24
113:25 115:22,23
117:16,19,20 118:4
118:12,16 119:9
124:16 125:3 127:19
130:15 137:21 138:2
140:9,24 141:1,9,17
141:18,23,25 142:2
143:3,21 146:20
148:4 149:19 150:12
151:11 154:14,16
158:3,10 159:6 160:6
160:16 163:7 164:6
166:10 167:23,25
168:6 170:6,9,15
175:7,13,19 177:23
185:18 191:8,22
192:5,12 193:11
195:4,19 197:25
198:9 199:9 203:13
207:6 208:2 209:11
211:25 212:21 213:3
215:7,22,23 216:6,6


Page 4
216:16 218:20 219:8
220:4,15,19 222:6,21
224:17
allegation
189:13,14,15
alleged
59:11 69:20 192:2
allow
34:23 67:25 197:15
allowed
28:5,13,19 46:2 61:9
allowing
24:19
almost
131:3 132:14 179:2
alone
49:18 199:14
along
35:6 116:7 131:21
133:16 148:16
already
56:9 61:8 75:22
135:17 145:4 184:11
also
4:9 9:18 12:9 25:23
33:5,5,10 58:19
86:12 96:12 109:15
109:23 129:19,20
130:25 131:18
173:19
alter
22:22
altered
206:25
although
58:19 64:21 104:9
208:22
always
50:11 103:10 131:4
Al.com
5:3,11,12,14,15 36:18
36:25 40:6 108:16,18
108:23 110:3 113:10
114:25 118:18 120:7
am
12:21 17:14 30:7
1-800-325-3376
133:20 139:16 140:8

77:25 79:1 80:10,25
168:14 181:10
81:21 82:18 84:10
183:10 195:17
85:5 87:23 88:21
197:20 198:12
90:24 92:2,11,12
212:22 215:12,14
94:15 98:1 101:22
216:2 226:12,14,16
104:22 105:5,6,13
ambiguity
106:24 107:11,17,25
108:18,22 113:9,10
68:12
113:19 114:10,25
amend
117:1 118:17 119:5
98:14 160:12,24,25
120:7 121:19 122:6,7
161:25 162:2 173:5
123:10 125:10
174:14
132:25 133:2 136:21
amended
137:17 138:8 139:24
151:9 157:20 158:25
140:13 144:12
amending
145:14,23 146:3
160:8,15 161:2
147:11,15,16 148:9
amendment
148:22 150:19 151:9
97:10 148:9,18 150:19
151:10 156:7 161:14
156:8 161:14,16
161:16 162:8,15
164:8,11 165:7,23
165:7 166:21,24,24
166:1
169:20,22 171:24
amendments
173:2,7,18,22,24
130:11
174:16,23 175:14
America
177:19 179:15 182:9
1:7 136:17
185:6 186:17 194:19
among
197:5,8,10,16 200:18
169:18 171:18
201:16 202:16
amount
207:15 213:20 215:7
130:15 211:10 219:14
218:7 220:14 223:15
amounts
analysis
40:23 125:1
134:2 145:7,8,10,14
Amsouth
146:1,4,5
3:16
and
an
9:15 12:2 16:5,9 17:22 6:2,5,16 7:3,9,12,12
7:20 8:1,4,12,15,16
17:23 18:11 19:15
8:16 9:2,2,13,14,22
20:2,3 23:20 25:6
9:24 10:7,12,16,25
27:19 33:9 34:23
11:7,8,18 12:3,14,23
36:17 37:6 38:22
13:23,24 14:1,21
42:11 43:4,7 44:10
15:15 16:2,12,19
45:6,18 46:23 47:1
17:8,10 18:11,15,19
51:19,20,23 53:21
19:5,8,11,14,18 20:3
54:21 58:14 59:11
20:4,10 21:8,15 22:6
60:9 62:3,12 63:1
22:12,17 23:3 24:8
64:23 72:15 73:4
24:23,23 25:5,10,14
74:8 75:16 77:11,24
25:20,25 26:20 27:3

27:22 28:1,8,14,18
28:19 29:16 30:7,14
30:18,21 31:1,2,8,15
32:4,7,11 35:6,7
36:23 37:20 38:21
39:15 40:25 41:4,6
41:25 42:3,14 43:3,4
43:11,11,15,18,19,20
43:21,22 44:2,2,3,4,5
44:6,6,7,7,8,10,15
45:8,10,13 46:1
49:15 50:17,24 51:1
51:15,22,23 52:12,13
52:25,25 53:1,2,6,16
54:3,20 55:1,12,19
56:2,8,15 57:12,17
57:24 58:6,10,13,18
58:25 59:7,14,18
60:22 61:10,11,14,16
61:17 62:4,6 63:8
64:2,18 66:4,9 67:7
67:19,20 68:12,15,16
68:18,25 69:17 70:7
70:12,13,18 71:6,24
72:15,15,23 73:10
74:3,6,22 75:5,10,19
76:13,18 78:12,15,17
79:1 80:14,14,15
81:5,5,5,9,19 82:15
83:3,6,9,13,21,22,23
84:11,15,16,25 85:17
85:24 87:22 88:13
89:16,19 90:6,23
91:7 92:14,17,24
93:10,14 94:8 95:7
95:10,20 96:4,6,18
96:24 97:3,10,25
98:14 100:15,17,20
101:6,8,16,22 102:11
102:12,15,19,21
103:6,14,18 104:3,12
104:13,20 106:1
107:4,13,21,21 108:3
108:7 109:4,10,25
110:11,16 112:10,15


Page 5
113:8,10,10 114:1
115:10 116:7,22
117:4,17,23,24 118:8
118:12,22 119:2,7,16
120:6,25 121:7,9,10
121:18,23 122:9
123:4,8,16 124:16
125:2,2,5,21 126:10
126:11,19 127:13
128:25 129:19,22
130:7,11,12,12
131:10,10,13,18,20
132:15,20,21 133:4
133:13 134:1,8,8,14
135:2,11 136:10,11
137:6,21,22,24 138:8
138:8,19 139:2,21
140:3,13 141:2,5,13
142:11,16,19 143:10
143:13,21 144:7
145:15,16,17,18
146:15 147:8,25
148:11,23 149:2,6,9
149:10,12,20,21,22
149:23,24,24,25,25
150:5 151:13 153:3,4
153:7,16,25 154:8,8
154:14,14,16,22
155:7,8,21,25 156:3
157:23 158:6,6,22
159:3,6 160:18 161:9
161:17,23,25 162:7
162:11,12,17,18
164:23 165:6,20,23
166:5,9,16 167:2,4
167:22,25 168:5,12
168:23 169:14,16,20
170:2,9,15 171:8,9
171:18 172:9,18,20
172:21,25 173:2,4,13
174:1,14,17,20,24
175:7,8,12,19,20,21
175:22 176:2,4,5
177:8,9,10 178:23
179:4,4,7,8,16,16
180:2 181:8,8,13,19
1-800-325-3376
181:20,20 182:6,7,12
182:18,22 183:14
184:22 187:1,19,24
187:25,25,25 188:2,2
188:7,20 189:5,6,11
190:5,16,24 191:7,12
191:12,14,16,21
192:1,2,11,16,24
193:12,14,18,20
194:1,12,18,20,25
196:10,11,16,18,19
197:7,13,15,20,21
198:2,11,12,25 199:7
199:8,15 200:5,12,15
201:10,21,21,22
202:1,25 203:1,3
204:16 205:10,11,15
205:18,25 206:14,17
206:21,23,24 207:11
207:17 208:10,14,17
208:21 209:8,19
210:14 211:5,15,25
212:13 213:5 214:2
214:12,17 215:4
216:1,1,2,5,6 217:13
217:17 218:14
219:10,14,17,21
220:5 221:9 222:13
222:16,20 224:12,17
224:20,25 225:1
226:5,7,7,9,10
Andy
7:19 8:1
annoying
37:17
annual
117:10 143:14
another
43:24 119:7 128:10
149:17 162:9 174:21
174:22 223:5
answer
16:10,20,24 17:3,7
19:16 21:5,10 22:11
23:11,14 24:17,22
26:5,9,14,17 30:24
34:11,15,24 36:6,10
36:16 37:8 38:9,9,20
39:4,9 45:1 46:2,18
54:8,21,23 56:16
57:24 58:16,18 60:15
60:20,24 61:5 62:16
64:23 65:17,22 66:17
77:22 78:13,21,24
81:18 84:2 86:4
94:22 95:13 102:23
104:10 107:10 111:5
121:1 128:3,5 140:13
142:12,14 145:25
146:2,3 150:14 160:1
160:10 168:14,17,17
168:19 181:4 182:7
191:25 192:11
196:20 197:14
200:13 202:16 214:2
214:18,22 215:1
223:21 224:18
answered
55:6 61:10 75:22,24
142:11 145:4 152:15
160:3 168:23,25
198:8 218:14
answering
23:12 45:18 48:7
170:9
answers
17:6 115:23 226:7
answer's
21:5
anticipation
63:4
any
7:22 8:21,22 9:5 13:4
13:12 14:8,21,24
15:8 23:5,13,18,21
23:24 25:11,12 26:2
28:4 29:12,22 30:24
31:3,25 36:12 37:11
38:13 43:2 44:24
45:3,5 47:10,25 48:1
48:11,12,18 53:9,9
53:17 54:6,16,22
55:9 56:25 57:8,13

58:5,9 60:20 61:5,24
65:7 69:11,19 70:8,9
73:7 74:19 75:11,15
75:19 76:5,14,19,20
77:6,10,13,17 80:2
82:2,9 88:23 91:3,10
92:9 93:12 94:6 97:8
97:19,20 100:2,11
101:2,4,13,21,25
102:17 106:14 107:4
111:25 122:11
123:20 132:4,6
133:23 134:1,4
135:24 140:16 151:1
153:20 156:17
157:20 158:9 162:20
162:23 166:1,6,9
167:4,9,22 169:1,5,9
171:17,19 173:25
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anything
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apart
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apology
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apparently
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appear
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appearance
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APPEARANCES
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appears
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application
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applied
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appointed
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appointing
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approach
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1-800-325-3376
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appropriate
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approved
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approximate
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approximately
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arbitrarily
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article
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article's
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articulate
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asked
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1-800-325-3376
210:1 216:21 218:14

221:2
asking
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aspects
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assembled
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assert
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45:10,13 48:3 49:19
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17:23 60:18
assessment
212:17
assessors
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assignment
205:19
assistant
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assistants
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40:13 61:15 62:11
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81:21 130:19,22 180:1
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6:7,9 7:3,17,22 10:19
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Page 8
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attorney-client
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63:11 78:22 103:4
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attributed
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149:1
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audio
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authenticate
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author
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authorities
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Page 9
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became
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119:23
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beyond
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big
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billing
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Page 10
binding
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Birmingham
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bit
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blower
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Blvd
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both
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boxed
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BRANCH
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break
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195:22 203:15,22
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214:14 217:8 218:7
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124:23,24 125:16
150:17 151:8 153:25
budget
126:6,17 127:21
155:24
158:12,20,24
124:8,12
128:19,22 129:22
159:24 162:13
budgetary
133:9,22 135:11,22
164:19,20 165:13
124:1
136:4 137:24 138:24
167:13 168:11,18
building
140:15,16 141:2,16
169:15 170:4 171:1,5
2:18 87:5
142:4,21 143:8,22
172:20
174:6
177:20
buildup
144:14,22 145:1,6
178:22 179:7 180:5
175:10
146:1 147:2,14,19,25
180:23 181:5 185:5
bullet
149:12 152:3,24
187:18
188:20
88:25
153:6,10,18 154:16
190:21 191:9 192:22
bump
157:19 158:3 160:6
193:23 195:12 196:5
138:1
161:10 163:24 164:6
203:20 205:12
burning
164:13 168:18,24
206:12 207:1 208:13
44:11 175:2,6 178:2
170:9 171:13 172:20
209:1
212:17
213:16
busy

Page 11
173:21 174:12 176:7
125:17,18 127:4
176:10,15 177:16
128:3,5,5 138:20
178:21 179:19,25
140:13 146:14,21
180:15 182:8,18
155:18 156:5 158:5
183:9 185:12,17
159:6 161:23 167:17
186:1 187:5,7,17
169:1,5,6,9 171:9
188:19 193:5 194:4
174:6 181:1 192:21
194:11 197:3 200:8
194:19 196:4 203:15
201:2 202:22 203:2
217:10 221:10,11,14
204:10,14,17 205:6
221:15,17,18
207:2 211:15 217:17 canceled
218:15,23 221:1
174:18,19 176:2 178:9
222:16 226:6,8,11,17
203:5
226:18
candidates
11:16
C
cannot
C
159:12 194:20
2:5
can't
call
54:11 62:4 76:5 96:2,3
115:20 148:13 173:17
96:4 140:13 152:16
called
169:14 185:10
56:4 96:25 118:1,5
196:23 223:8
200:12 210:23
capable
calling
61:18 67:6
196:7 199:7,9
capacity
calls
7:15 8:21 73:16
23:8 65:11 97:24
104:20 105:6
116:12
careful
came
61:11 64:9
6:6 7:12,18 43:18 44:8 carefully
91:11 98:3 149:9
160:25
151:9 174:8 175:7
Carrington
179:15 185:14 187:1 5:5,6,20 29:13 30:1,13
can
30:19,25 31:4,9 32:1
6:25 21:12 38:20 39:4
32:19,23 33:20 42:9
39:9 43:4,25 45:2,9
42:18 43:23 44:4
46:7 53:12,16 54:4,8
45:8 50:10 52:13
54:15,23 56:14,23
59:18,22,24 63:3,4,8
57:5,6,15,19 58:7
64:7 65:9 66:1,4
62:5 65:17,22 67:22
68:25 69:9,17 70:18
68:1 70:1,7,15 76:6
71:19 72:4 73:19,25
78:14,20,24 80:19,21
75:10 76:23 77:2
81:12,18 86:4 87:15
79:10 80:7 81:13
95:2 98:5 101:17,18
82:13,19 83:25 84:25
102:22 109:19 110:1
85:1,7,12,17,18,25
111:5 123:5,19
96:11 100:14,18
1-800-325-3376
107:23 118:24 119:9

119:13 120:17 126:8
126:9 129:24 130:4
135:13,16,19 148:8
149:16,22 150:9,18
152:5 153:8 157:22
158:6 160:8,11
163:16 174:8 181:14
182:21 187:11,12
188:5 189:23 190:17
190:18,21 194:3
200:15 201:2 204:15
Carrington's
74:20 109:6 129:14
151:15 163:1,8
Carroll
142:25
carry
184:22
carrying
185:5
case
9:6,7,8,23 10:4,9 12:6
12:12 13:5 14:20
15:7 23:20 36:13
139:22 171:9 174:11
206:9,14,25 213:11
215:6 216:1 217:14
cause
6:11 208:19 209:3,8
209:17 226:15
caution
64:23
CCR
2:1 226:23
Center
3:6
Central
102:6 189:17
certain
8:24,24,24 10:23 74:7
192:1
certainly
21:15 41:1 56:12 83:5
91:4 104:10 122:8
133:19
CERTIFICATE
226:1
Certified
6:1 226:17
certify
6:4 226:5,12,16
cessation
82:20,22
cetera
129:3
CFO
143:1
chair
51:24 52:1,6 84:18
169:7 172:4,12
chance
40:6 88:16 118:14
123:7
chancellors
143:1
change
7:22 8:5 23:6 94:13
146:11 159:25 166:6
174:20
changed
23:3 93:14,15,19,20
93:22 164:17,23
changes
41:22 170:16 171:13
222:11,17
character
117:2
characterization
22:25
characterize
82:21 88:17,19 116:16
Charles
8:14 9:12
Charlie
12:2,5
chart
43:18 149:9
chartered
81:17
chase
138:21


Page 12
choice
88:22,23,24 102:1
123:17
choke
153:16
chose
65:5 171:22
Circuit
175:11
circumstance
72:10 93:8 110:16,19
155:14
circumstances
137:2 139:3
circumvented
160:23
circumventing
161:3
citizen
94:6
City
1:14 80:12 81:2,15
82:1,9,11,16 201:18
Civil
1:6,11,16 2:15 6:5
claim
123:19 212:1 219:9
220:15
claims
175:10 212:11
clarification
209:24
clarify
19:14 117:12
Clay
17:15 49:1 98:23
196:25
Clayton
3:4
clean
110:12 112:11
cleaned
112:6,7
clear
16:13 25:19 29:1 30:1
38:12 45:17 60:19
1-800-325-3376
61:21 90:9 94:22

97:16 178:23 184:9
184:10,16
clearly
168:13 171:1 182:11
202:25 214:8
clerical
133:17
clerk
7:10
client
10:10 12:15 20:21
58:13 63:15,15,19
64:18 68:15 75:20
79:13 92:6,6,10
103:3,7,7,8,10,11,13
103:24 104:11,14
128:23 159:9 174:24
188:13 203:3
clients
199:12 200:5
client's
12:13
clip
43:4,7
close
213:14 215:4
clowe@lowegramm...
3:8
coaches
142:22
Cockrell
84:10
collapse
13:23,25
colleague
205:25 211:23
collection
220:5
collective
104:14
collectors
103:17
college
143:3,5,7
colloquy
25:4 26:21
come
76:22 143:24 162:18
186:10 195:16,16
196:25 197:1,1
216:18
comes
24:15 131:2,6
coming
43:13 148:12 149:4
150:2,19 195:17,17
commenced
12:19
commencement
14:5
commencing
6:9
comment
20:15,22 21:23 93:3
108:18 111:1 112:22
118:6 119:20
commented
20:21 116:3
commenting
20:10 31:12
comments
25:12,16 116:8 192:2
commercial
81:17,20,22,25 82:10
commission
5:17 10:11,21 11:6,8
11:12,14,15 12:16
24:21 26:12 29:7
31:5 32:6 33:6 34:1
34:6 35:21 36:21
74:14,23 79:8 83:23
84:6,8 89:6 96:14
103:16,23 104:1,15
106:10 107:6 109:18
110:17 115:10
117:14,15 122:19
124:9,11 125:6,16,17
130:9,13,16,25 133:9
137:13 141:7,13,20
144:15 149:1 153:6
156:7 157:1,2 159:10
160:5 164:24 166:12

167:3 176:23 208:6,7
commissioner
6:3 24:12,25 25:5,6,22
26:1,21 29:13 30:1
30:18,25 31:4,9 32:1
32:18,23 33:20 42:8
44:20 45:8 46:12
52:13,14 59:21,22,24
63:8,8 73:19,25 74:8
74:20 76:23 77:2
79:10 80:7,14 81:4
82:7,15 84:25,25
85:1,7,12,18 86:10
87:19 96:3,5,9
100:14,15,17,20
107:22 118:24 119:8
135:13 148:6,8 149:2
149:15 150:9,18
151:14 152:5 154:6
155:1 158:4 160:7,11
163:1 169:19,22
172:24 173:16
181:14,18 182:21
188:5 199:14 201:2
201:10,20 204:14,15
commissioners
23:25 24:3 27:6 28:12
28:25 42:21 45:5
47:13 53:9 59:18
60:12 69:16 70:18
75:10 77:6 79:12
80:2 82:25 84:23
85:17 93:11 96:2,12
96:20,24 121:25
141:25 151:11
154:25 157:22 173:8
188:11 189:5 199:7
200:15 201:8 203:2
commissioner's
84:11
commissions
134:8
commission's
26:25 35:25 42:12,13
139:23


Page 13
commitment
90:4
committed
24:14,18 26:7,12
91:19
committee
27:1,5 32:17 41:21,22
42:4,10,12,19,22
43:9,25 44:3,5 65:3
74:23 77:21 79:9
80:21 84:23 86:13,24
87:18 88:6,8 92:18
92:24 96:1 148:10,11
148:14,15 149:18,21
149:23 150:7,12,23
151:6,15 152:6 154:4
155:10 156:3,7,20
160:20 161:18 162:4
162:22 164:1,23,25
168:3,10 169:7,21
170:13 171:13,17,20
172:3,7,10,14,18
189:12 190:11 202:3
203:9 204:20 207:12
207:22 208:4,5,17
209:14 221:9
committees
151:16 152:7 155:21
156:16 161:25
164:24 167:7 168:20
169:3 170:5,8,11
171:11,18 172:8
committee's
169:11
common
131:19
communicate
190:16 191:19
communicated
43:16 149:7 219:25
communication
18:5 29:22 63:16
communications
16:3 68:14 173:10
189:18 191:11,23
193:18,25
1-800-325-3376
compare
134:25 136:7,18
compared
112:2 126:25 127:23
135:24 136:12
142:15
comparing
128:9 134:11 146:7
comparison
127:12,17,20 128:6
134:2 136:22,22
compensate
217:21
compensation
107:17 134:2 135:24
136:3,7,19 145:16
146:4 218:17
competence
48:2,14
competent
133:15
complaints
44:24 45:4 48:13
complete
147:23 151:25
completed
119:1 121:17
completely
129:24,25 144:9
compliance
12:11 24:15 25:21
26:7,12 36:23 91:19
91:24 170:19 171:2
171:12,25 173:4
174:13 179:14
180:17 214:16 223:3
compliant
26:10 114:12
complied
198:16 213:25 218:24
219:1
comply
10:8 41:24 198:13
222:12,19
complying
163:3,9
compounds
37:18
comprehensive
164:8
comprised
133:15
computer-aided
226:8
concealed
184:20,22
concern
18:4 19:19 40:21 47:6
54:21 55:12 57:11,15
145:17,18 183:3
concerned
16:13 45:7 46:5 69:20
75:15
concerning
29:13 59:25
concerns
17:22 19:16 45:16
49:17,21,25 59:11
181:21 204:13
concluded
225:6
conclusion
37:11 40:16 65:12
85:16 213:10
condition
13:20 14:2
conduct
83:10 92:15,22 93:4,6
174:23 194:22
197:12,22,22,23
confer
16:25 17:1 60:6 64:10
94:23
CONFERRING
133:13 191:21
confidence
90:12,14
confidential
51:5,15 65:1 70:20
75:3 89:20 99:11
216:22
confidentiality
78:19 89:23 90:6

confirm
142:6 155:18 159:6,12
179:10 180:6 192:21
216:5
confirmation
213:4
confirmed
194:9
confirming
216:3
confrontational
111:8
confused
189:21 218:3
confusing
178:18 200:21
connection
12:25 13:9 81:15 97:8
125:14
consensus
162:17
consent
10:8,9 12:11 14:9 22:3
22:18 24:16 26:8,10
26:13 43:20 90:18
91:5,20,24 92:1
139:25 149:10
163:10,14
consequences
213:6
consider
200:6,6 208:18
consideration
130:14
considered
11:16 216:21
consist
169:11
consistent
35:25 74:16
constitutional
167:1
consultant
14:17
contact


Page 14
187:16 188:18 193:7
193:11 194:14
197:18,23 198:3,7,19
198:20 199:18
200:11,16,17
contacted
190:22 197:25 198:6
contacting
198:10
contacts
198:25
contain
17:7 36:12
contained
53:10 62:20,23 108:19
190:19
contains
22:2 90:4
contempt
12:18 13:10 14:5 23:2
36:12 43:20 90:25
91:2 149:11
content
49:18 199:16 200:17
contents
22:22 53:4 65:5
contest
213:13
contesting
213:10 214:15
context
117:20 154:18 155:17
156:5 172:23 204:21
205:2 208:3 211:12
223:13,15
continuation
209:19
continue
105:15 110:13 198:25
continued
199:3
continuing
149:15 186:25
contract
130:20,23 131:2,11,13
131:13,23 132:1,3,17
1-800-325-3376
132:23 217:4
contractor
105:9
contracts
125:3,3 130:7,11
131:19 132:18,22
contractual
213:6
contrary
116:12 200:18
contribution
107:24
contributions
128:25 129:1,2
control
16:7 96:5,6
controversy
110:18
convenient
184:14
conversation
21:4 31:16 46:15 63:7
66:15,19 69:16 111:3
201:12 202:24,25
203:7
conversations
11:5 31:3,9,22 63:22
134:7 192:13,23
conversion
209:5,11 210:11,16,19
211:2,6 217:21 219:2
convicted
97:1
convinced
81:7 201:23
convoluted
196:24
Cooper
3:10 83:22
copies
50:12
copy
5:3,5,6,9,11,12,14,15
5:17,18,19,21,22
37:13 39:10,13,16,16
39:19,21,25 40:2,11
40:14 41:6,13,19
50:5,13 51:9 53:21
53:21 54:2 71:21
86:16 105:19 108:10
112:24 114:20
118:10 122:14
146:25 152:22 155:3
205:4 223:25 224:10
cordial
110:16 111:7
corner
153:8
coroners
103:17
Corps
7:11
correct
7:4 8:7 17:14 25:17
32:25 49:23 50:1
77:22 78:11 94:14
98:9 111:12 112:18
123:15 126:19
129:23 130:8 143:20
147:18,22,24 160:17
168:14,18 183:10
195:2,4 197:20
198:12 200:14 208:4
212:22 226:10
corrected
219:22
correctly
41:4 120:8 139:16
181:11
cost
127:10 134:20
could
9:3 27:20,20 30:22
49:17 57:12 63:19
64:14 82:9 94:6,8
99:18,23 102:4 104:8
108:6 109:23,24
110:5 111:24 118:12
127:14 135:20
149:19 150:14
151:19 179:6 186:18
190:5 217:2 221:20
224:1
couldn't
18:3 65:10 89:11
113:12 150:17
154:13
council
32:8
counsel
6:6 50:11 51:12 54:2
80:13 81:3,7 82:24
105:1,10 127:23
133:13 134:21
187:20 188:21,24
189:19 190:17,23
191:21,24 192:14,24
193:8,12,19 194:1
196:4 197:8,18,24,25
198:20 199:18
200:18 201:19,23
202:19 211:15,19
226:13
counseling
156:23 157:5,22
182:13
counties
134:14 136:9
country
134:15 136:8,13 142:9
144:2 151:2,4
counts
215:23,23
county
1:9 4:3 5:9,17 7:4,7,16
7:17,24 8:3,6,8,12,18
9:5,11,16,20 10:6,8
10:11,14,25 11:8,21
11:23 12:15,19,23
13:8,16,19 14:4,7,18
15:1,7,18,23 16:13
17:8,10 18:12 22:12
23:25 24:3,15,20
26:4,25 27:6 28:12
29:6 33:10 34:1
35:21 36:1,8,20,21
36:24 40:23 42:16
43:8,12,25 44:1,2,15


Page 15
45:1,5 46:12,23,23
47:17 55:15 56:23
57:23 58:13,23 61:22
72:12,22 73:8 74:9
74:13,14 79:8,14
80:4 81:9,15 87:15
90:16,19,21 91:16,19
91:23 92:11 93:10,14
93:23 97:22 103:3,3
103:16,22,23,23
104:1,2,4,17,17,21
105:2,3,6,16,18,23
106:9,15,16,20 107:1
107:2,11,14,25 108:3
108:9,12 109:10,18
111:24 112:23 113:2
113:11,24 114:11,19
114:23,24 115:1
117:16,18,19 118:9
118:13,18 119:2
122:13,17,19,20
123:14 124:24 125:6
127:24 130:5,21,23
130:24 131:3 132:3
134:3,10,14 136:15
136:20,23,24 137:2
137:13,21,22 139:8
139:10,14 140:16,19
140:24 141:1,10,13
141:17,18,24 142:16
142:18 143:15,16,18
143:21,25 144:1,4,5
144:15 145:16,21,22
146:1,6,24 147:11
148:10,11 149:3,18
149:20,20 152:21,25
153:6,19 155:2,6
159:4,10 160:19
162:10 163:3,5,7,18
163:19 164:1,7 165:8
166:2,12,15,16,22,23
167:2,3,7 168:2,3,4,5
168:6,8,9,19 169:2,6
169:10,15,17,18,21
169:23 170:4,7,13,17
170:20 171:10,12
1-800-325-3376
172:1,2,3,4,6,8,9,10
172:11,13,15 173:4
174:14 176:21,23
178:2 179:13 180:24
182:23 185:1,3,4
187:9,16,18 188:13
188:18,19 189:4
199:6,8,8 201:6
202:1 203:2 205:3,7
205:20,23,25 206:24
207:7,9 210:24
212:22 213:3,21
215:18 216:7 218:19
221:2
county's
12:11 13:14,20 14:1
15:19 16:18 20:7
22:1 23:1 36:24
45:11 58:11 70:10,14
72:13 96:7 110:4
114:12 116:14,15
136:18,19,19 175:6
187:19,19 188:20,21
188:24 189:19
190:22 191:3 193:19
200:5 220:6
couple
15:13 50:16 61:9
98:17 123:6 220:17
course
7:23 13:23 18:11 31:8
39:24 49:3 61:16
66:7 69:16 98:25
204:2 208:8,9,11
court
1:1 20:8 92:2 99:3,5
99:18 100:4 226:17
226:18
courthouse
4:4 72:13 109:11
179:13 185:2 186:4
198:17
courts
22:23
cover
102:15,16 217:18,19
coverage
29:21 109:5 112:10,11
113:2
covered
161:10 218:18
covering
66:11
co-authored
84:5
co-authors
35:4
co-wrote
35:3
CRAVATH
2:7
create
141:8
created
133:17 141:9
creditor
189:1 191:1
creditors
79:15 80:11 81:2
188:14 189:4 201:18
crises
179:2,22
critical
31:19 122:11
criticism
115:11,17,24 116:9,17
116:19 122:8
criticisms
100:11
cross-examine
101:16 138:3
culminated
11:7
current
164:5
cut
138:21 140:11 195:18
CV-74-S-12-S
1:16
CV-74-S-17-S
1:11
CV-75-S-666-S
1:6
D
D
2:8,16 4:15
Dallas
189:2,8
date
6:4 10:21 29:9 34:22
35:1 109:24 115:6
126:5 155:13 173:14
177:15 178:8 200:22
dated
50:9 71:19 72:4 73:24
74:12 114:25 118:17
130:5
dates
150:16,17 155:22
179:4,8,22 202:18
David
3:11 50:10 54:8 71:18
72:4 81:13 119:12,12
119:13 120:16 126:8
126:9 129:14 155:23
179:1 185:20 187:11
187:12 189:22
191:13 197:1
David's
38:19
day
6:9 10:25 33:24 47:20
47:20 51:21 77:17
82:3 87:6 89:7,8
111:25 113:16,24,24
137:23 138:19
148:25 150:3 155:25
156:2 162:13,23
165:12 175:20 179:3
180:24 181:9 185:19
186:8 187:23 188:3
189:2 192:18 198:1,9
198:22 211:20 212:4
214:1 216:6 224:18
225:7
Daylight
189:18


Page 16
days
44:8 81:10 128:24,24
131:6 201:7 202:2
219:12
day-to-day
11:25
DC
2:20
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128:23
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171:18
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41:1
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80:18 85:22 87:20


Page 19
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example


Page 20
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fashion
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Page 21
finish
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131:19,25 132:2
133:4 134:9 135:3,10
135:20 137:4,11,23
141:8,9,21 142:8
143:15 145:16,20,22
146:5,25 147:8,8
148:2,9,10,11,25
149:3,18 152:22
153:3 155:3 158:18
159:6 161:2,6 162:20
162:24 163:25 165:7
166:1,14 167:22
168:6 172:4,8,11,14
174:24 178:2 179:3
181:1,14,20 182:6
183:20,21 189:7
190:6 195:9 197:11
198:10 199:9 201:11
202:1 205:4,22
207:15 208:19 209:3
209:8,17 212:10
213:6,9,13 216:3
220:17 224:4,22
foregoing
6:6 226:6,9
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56:18,20
foresee
16:15
forget
50:21 175:1
forgot
17:18
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43:14 149:5
form
16:1 18:3,10 19:2 28:9
65:14 84:14 98:6,8
109:13 112:5 114:3,4
115:15,16 117:11
120:5 132:19 133:1,3
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154:10 157:24
163:22 164:10
168:16,22 173:12
176:6,8,12 177:12
179:17,18,24 180:10
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199:25 202:7 206:22
213:8 218:13,21
formally
11:13 36:22
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84:9 134:8
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40:24
forms
74:5
formulating
54:7
forth
43:24 125:2 130:12
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forthright
87:22
Fortunately
81:6 201:23
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119:5
forward
119:10 150:19
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135:14
foundation
19:18 84:2 123:7
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four
7:12 33:10 64:3 96:6
106:7 115:13 117:9
125:25 126:12,14,23
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four-to-one
88:12
frame
46:19 121:23
frank
87:22
frankly
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free
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French
8:16
frequently
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friend


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from
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30:25 31:10 32:18,23
33:19 40:13 41:4,16
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52:10 61:23 65:9,12
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72:4 80:20 81:25
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102:18 105:23
108:15,22 110:9
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115:12,17,24 116:12
116:20 117:8 120:7
122:19 126:8,9,22
131:10 141:23
145:19 149:1 164:14
164:24 171:16
172:19 173:23 175:8
178:7,13,14 179:11
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186:11 187:8 192:2
198:9 200:4 205:19
207:3 212:9 216:22
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front
82:8 126:20 153:5
full
89:5 170:19 208:6,7
fully
26:9 141:25 219:4
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13:24 175:15
further
73:18 100:23 220:23
224:21 225:4 226:12
226:16
G
GALE
3:10
game
30:11
1-800-325-3376
gap
10:19
Garrison
142:25
gave
75:1
gee
99:17
general
13:24 103:15 109:19
136:6 203:6
generally
14:3 15:11 35:23 70:1
207:19
GEORGE
1:19
get
9:3 11:5 49:4 82:9
111:21 116:2 118:19
128:15 131:20 138:3
140:13 153:11,17
158:22 159:18
165:19 174:6 175:19
179:12 184:8 191:18
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215:3
gets
54:21 131:6,7
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37:16 138:19,19 158:8
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199:16 200:16
213:14 219:11
give
29:7 50:11 55:23
60:20 92:5 99:20
108:2 109:24 115:1
116:6 128:8 153:20
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23:25 24:3 53:18
88:15,22 117:24
122:7 169:15 173:1
184:5,8 194:18 200:3
200:19,20 202:18
226:11
gives
61:5
giving
82:23
glad
56:10
gleaned
111:2
go
28:10 41:12 61:10
68:8 74:6 98:13 99:1
100:6 115:12 121:13
121:14 134:9 140:14
143:10,13 146:21
153:17 157:7 161:15
161:21 173:9 183:7
191:1,17 196:19
203:20 204:22,23
215:24 217:9,12,16
217:17
goal
134:21
goes
128:20 131:5
going
12:4 16:19 21:6,11
34:10 40:8 41:7 43:3
44:16 52:20 56:16
57:13,23 60:5 61:22
69:11 71:9,16 88:23
97:6 101:5 102:15
108:19 116:24
132:20 136:17,18
137:22 138:1,2,18
140:9 141:14,15
152:25 155:6 157:17
161:19 165:19
167:25 173:6,9 174:1
174:9,16,22 180:7,8
180:12 183:17
184:11,16 188:9
191:23,24 192:3,14
192:25 193:1,24
194:11 196:5 198:11
203:20,24 213:11,13
215:1 216:23 222:3

gone
191:7
good
6:23,24 38:23 47:12
50:11 196:17,17,20
204:12 212:18
got
13:23 30:6 32:18
33:19 41:25 43:13
50:22 51:22 67:4,10
87:5 91:2 108:12
116:12 117:23
126:19 137:19,19
138:8,10 147:4 149:4
153:12 156:23,25
160:18 164:7 175:6
175:21 176:5 177:10
178:1 181:15 183:11
184:10 186:20 187:8
196:22 198:23
206:21,23 222:13,20
governing
104:1
government
93:4,4 134:4 135:25
governmental
88:2 174:25
Grace
3:14 35:7 205:10,11
GRAMMAS
3:3
gray
41:1
great
155:25
greater
212:23 213:2
greatest
178:22
greatly
112:14
grossly
126:24
ground
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Page 23
grounds
22:9 67:24
growing
127:22
guard
72:15,20,24 77:11
185:14 186:5,17,17
guess
8:2 11:6 17:21 44:10
44:10 52:8 72:4 89:3
138:10 151:7 154:17
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guidance
32:7 199:9
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73:3 186:2
guns
185:24
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43:13 128:14 149:3
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190:10 191:7 192:23
194:17,18 197:11,22
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half
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181:20
had
hallway
6:12 8:24 10:1 11:4,15 111:9
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13:16,22 15:8,23
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37:12 38:3 39:10,13
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handing
53:9 59:19 60:10
158:25 159:2,3 163:17
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handle
75:15,22,24 77:3,7
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80:2,3 83:9 85:3,19
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88:1 89:4 91:6,15
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99:22 102:9 111:8,16 153:7
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happen
130:6 132:5,13
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happened
135:1,19 136:6 137:3 12:22 53:6 71:4
1-800-325-3376
141:16 158:14,17
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happy
53:21 55:13 101:9
140:10 167:16
Harbert
3:16
hard
195:18
has
16:13 32:6 35:8 36:21
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57:7,23 58:7,22 59:2
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224:10
hasn't
34:20 220:1
hastily
129:17
have
6:18 8:19 9:5,21 10:6
13:3,4 14:13,21,24
15:3,10 19:9,19
20:24 21:1,12 22:21
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27:20,22,23 28:25
29:1 31:3,22 35:9,14
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41:6,19 43:2,14 44:3
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59:7 60:6,16 61:1,8
62:2 63:1 64:14 65:7
66:18 67:4 70:5
71:15 74:19 76:14,19
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100:23 101:4,5,10,12
101:13,15,20,25
104:4,4,5,5,6 106:22
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123:11,11,17 125:7
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178:13,16,20 183:1,6
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209:10 210:3 211:25
212:6,14,23 218:24
219:1,5,10,25 220:23
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223:25


Page 24
haven't
67:1 68:17 94:10
123:7 164:4 170:24
having
13:12 26:20 46:25
55:20 66:15 99:18
110:20,22 112:10
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9:21,24 10:1,5,10,12
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16:17,24 17:1,5,23
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1-800-325-3376
188:6,12 190:10
192:17,19,21,23
194:8,9,18 195:15
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203:1,1 205:23,24
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215:17 216:5,6,21
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head
9:25 88:25
heads
36:23 104:6 199:8
health
91:8 129:1 219:9
hear
18:22 30:8 56:10 60:1
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12:18 13:10 14:5
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hearsay
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heart
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heavy
26:22
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195:7 196:21
Henry
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14:14,16,22 15:3
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41:5,8 43:17 54:21
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211:19 212:19 214:5
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39:22 50:6 71:22
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67:21 153:15
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21:15 26:9 32:8 34:15
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Hills
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186:10,14
hire
141:13
hired
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36:20
his
16:24 17:7 19:5 29:13
30:13 32:7 46:14
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98:3 99:13,14 110:11


Page 25
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111:1 116:22,23,24
118:8 126:15 138:8
145:17 158:4 159:25
161:9 173:23 174:6
177:15 181:16,21
182:2 186:2,3 188:13
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153:16
Hold
147:3
holder
191:1
holidays
128:24
home
87:12,17
honest
28:16 87:22 212:17
Honestly
113:21
Hope
84:9
Hosp
35:7 205:10 206:8
hour
101:22 145:24
hourly
125:2
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84:3 181:10,21 190:15
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125:17 127:13,21
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162:1 166:16,17
170:8 171:9 190:5
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16:23 58:14 110:12
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63:14,17,22,24,25
64:2 65:13 66:3,12
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87:12,12,12,13,13,14
87:15,16,20,23,25
88:3,7,9,11,17,17,22
88:23 89:2,3,8,8 90:3
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93:18,25,25 94:2,11
94:20 95:12 96:2,3,8

97:7,7 98:1,1,2,8,10
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102:12,14 103:9,9
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105:8,12 106:12,18
106:20,22 107:16,20
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110:1 111:7,16,18,19
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135:2,7,7,9,9 136:4,6
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138:20,22 139:6,8,16
139:18,19 140:8,11
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149:21,22 150:4,5,16
150:16,16,17,18,20
150:25 151:4,6,7,18
151:19,22,25 152:2,8


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152:11,11,12,14
153:16,25,25 154:1
154:12,13,17,22,24
155:12,13,13,20,21
155:22 156:10,12,15
156:15,19,19 157:2,9
157:12,16,25,25
158:1,1,11,16,18,19
158:19 159:2,2,4,14
159:18,24,25 161:8,8
161:12,12,15,21
162:19 163:6,6,14,23
164:2,4,4,13 165:2
165:10,10,11,11,12
165:20,20 166:4,9,12
167:24,25 168:1,12
168:13,14 169:14,25
170:3,7,7,10,12,14
170:21,21,21,22,24
171:7,7,8 172:19,20
172:21 173:6 174:8
174:16,25 175:1,14
175:21,25 176:11
177:1,4,14,18,18,19
177:20 178:4,4,5,12
178:12,15,16,19,19
178:22,25 179:5,6,6
179:8 180:4,4,20,22
181:1,9,10,24 182:1
182:5,25 183:2,10
184:2,8,9,10,10,13
184:21,24,24,24
185:10,11,13,20,21
185:21 186:7,7,16,19
186:20,23 187:3,6,11
187:22,23,23 188:1,2
188:2,6 189:9,24
190:1,4,5,5,8,10
191:2,4,16,18 192:1
192:5,20,25 193:16
193:16,16,17,22,22
193:22,23,23,24
194:1,1,3,5,6,8,9,16
194:18,24 195:3,3,17
196:5,8,9,15 197:19
197:19,20,25 198:5,5
1-800-325-3376
198:8,8,12,16,16,18
198:21 199:2,6,6,10
199:13,13,13,21
200:2,5,6,23,24
201:10,21 202:5,11
202:14,17,18,20
203:3,14,19 204:19
204:22,23 205:1,7
206:3,4,10,12,12
207:5 208:2,20,22,22
208:23,24,24,24,25
209:1,1,7,12,21
210:1,2,2,2,4,4,4,7
210:18,18 211:4,7,17
211:17 212:6,6,16,22
213:16,20 214:12,12
214:15,17,22,25
215:12,14 216:2,9,19
216:20 217:8,8,10,13
217:18 218:6,7,18,22
219:1,3,9,12,16,21
220:9,24 221:7,15,18
221:20 222:21,21,21
223:8,11,14,22 224:6
224:9,12,14,18,24
226:5,12,12,14,16,16
idea
56:11 101:9 151:15
152:6
ideas
154:7,9 160:8,14
161:17 171:22
identification
39:21 50:5 71:21
105:19 108:10
112:24 114:20
118:10 122:14
146:25 152:22 155:3
205:4
identified
34:20
identify
43:4 71:14 80:21
81:12 147:8 221:10
221:14
if
11:15 12:4 15:6 16:8

17:1,21 18:3,4,18
19:7 20:16,18 21:4,5
21:9,16,17 22:23
25:12 30:1,18 34:10
34:19 35:8 38:2,3,5
38:21 39:15 41:3,3
41:13 43:4 44:19
45:7 46:7 49:20,24
50:17 51:15 53:20
54:1,4 56:10,13 57:3
58:11,13 61:12 65:5
66:19,22 67:12 73:15
73:23 75:23 78:4,13
78:15,20 79:1 80:19
80:21 82:6 87:14
88:9 89:4 92:6 93:12
93:13 97:25 98:24
99:17 101:1,8,21
102:18,19 105:17
109:19 111:16,18,20
111:24 116:1 117:5
118:5,12 119:13
123:23 127:19 129:6
130:2 131:13 134:22
135:1,1,7,8,9,19
137:1 138:9 140:12
141:13 143:13
144:12 145:23
150:14 151:25
152:16 153:16,19
155:8,8 158:3,4,8
160:6,21,21,24 166:5
166:6,8 167:15,17
168:1 173:25 174:4
177:13 178:5,23
179:6 181:5 182:24
184:13 186:20 189:7
189:22 190:8 191:22
192:11,22 195:5,15
200:12 202:11
204:22 206:3,4 209:2
209:8,9 211:17
212:21 214:15
216:22 217:5 219:4
221:9 223:19,21
224:11
II
4:2
immediately
73:18 91:15
impending
90:24
implementation
223:20
implemented
133:19
imply
186:9
implying
215:16
importance
180:16
important
21:9 49:16 213:17,18
imposes
213:5
impossible
129:15
improper
99:11 173:18,21
201:14 218:7
improvement
31:19
in
1:1 6:10 7:3,8,9,10,11
7:12,15,18,25 8:14
8:21,21 9:1,3 10:4,9
10:13 11:7,8,9 12:4
12:19,25,25 13:4,7,7
13:9,13,16,20 14:7
14:22,25 15:7,8,10
15:12,15,19,23,24
16:14,16,20 17:1,4
18:6,8,8,20 19:9
22:19,21 23:5,20
24:13 26:2,21 28:25
29:1,6,10,11 31:2,8
32:12 33:17 36:5,13
36:18,19,25 38:8,11
40:6,24 41:14,16,22
42:4,12,14,15,25


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46:12 48:18 51:19,20
51:22,23,24,24 52:4
52:5,6,25 53:1,2,6,10
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56:25 59:15 60:13
63:4,10,16 66:7 67:4
68:15 69:8,15,24
72:12 73:2,16 74:5
74:19 75:16 76:20
78:12 79:13,14 80:3
80:4,11 81:2,8,15,16
81:17,19,22,24 82:8
82:11,15 83:2 84:10
84:11,12,14,15 85:8
85:24 86:9,24 87:5
87:10,11,22,25 88:25
89:1,23 90:11,14,18
90:18,24 91:14,18,23
92:10 93:3,7 94:12
95:7 96:13,20 97:13
97:22 98:15,17,22
99:2,2,5,18 100:4
101:21 103:4,21
104:11,20 105:6,22
105:22 106:2,6,13,21
106:21 107:4,17,23
109:8,11,12,15,18
110:5,11,20 111:1,8
111:9 112:3,7,21
113:11,23 114:11,13
115:2 116:13,15,18
117:8,10,16,17
118:24 119:4,9,10,11
119:14 120:6,25
121:8 122:11 123:3,5
123:10,13,20 124:5
125:1,5,13,19 126:20
126:25 127:12 128:6
128:12 129:4,8,9,11
129:20,23 130:7,8,21
130:23 131:2,3,5,7,9
131:11,17,22 132:3,7
132:15 133:10,23
134:2,3,6,6,12,15,16
134:24,24 135:24
1-800-325-3376
136:8,8,12,14,15,16
136:21 137:2,6,18
138:6,19,24 139:3,4
139:4,7,8,14,15,25
139:25 140:24 141:5
141:21,24 142:6,8,23
143:15 144:4 145:21
145:22 146:11 148:5
148:13 149:9,16,23
151:9,10,13 152:5
153:21,22 154:4,8,19
155:10,16,20 156:5,7
158:4 159:16,21
160:9,14 161:2,6,7
161:12 162:4,8,10,10
162:22,23,25 163:17
163:20 165:4,6
166:10,15,20,22
167:1,4,9,15 169:1,5
169:9,21,25 170:13
170:17 171:1,11,23
172:1,23 173:3,7,22
174:9,16 175:7 176:1
177:6,15,23 178:8
179:4,12,15 180:13
180:18 181:19
182:13,16,17,24,25
183:2 184:4,9,25,25
185:2,10 186:2
187:14,23,24 188:3,4
188:12,13,17 189:1,6
189:8,12 190:10,11
190:17,18 191:8,10
192:17,22 193:6,9,14
194:5,13,16,24 197:3
197:11,16 198:18
199:19 201:1,6,11,15
201:18,25 202:3,23
203:9 204:15,20,21
205:25 206:14,19,25
207:11 208:3,6,8,8
208:10,13,17 209:17
210:12,15 211:3,5,12
211:21 212:8,10,14
213:10 214:10
217:13,18,25 218:3
221:15,19 222:18
223:1,12,15 226:6,14
226:14
inaccuracies
190:20
inaccurate
112:13
incident
25:6 82:18
include
45:9 66:11 114:17
128:22 143:22
included
175:10
includes
124:12
including
114:14 116:13 124:13
134:13 144:4 187:18
188:19 210:11 211:5
incomplete
78:8 131:4
inconsistent
42:16 55:25
increase
109:12 110:23 111:21
114:2,6,9,10 115:12
117:8 137:11,12,14
138:9
increased
125:9
increases
137:3,4
incumbent
17:9
indeed
17:8 101:19 130:15
Independence
3:22
independent
102:19
independently
166:25 167:11
INDEX
5:1
indicate
55:24
indicated
59:23
indicates
130:10
indicating
38:18 50:19 52:3
112:11 129:10 136:5
indication
55:23
Indirectly
75:13
individual
92:12 104:14
individually
26:16
individuals
116:12
inevitably
62:8
inference
168:12
influenced
97:22
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174:20
information
19:17 20:23,24 21:1
23:8 38:8,10 54:16
55:22 57:6 58:10
60:22 62:9,21,24
63:10 70:4 78:5,14
78:23 96:5 102:17,20
124:16,23 125:20
129:23 135:14,20
158:21 161:22
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informs
170:8
inherent
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initial
35:10
initially
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inquire


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insinuating
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insinuations
196:11
insisting
58:11
instance
16:20
instances
16:15 120:25
instead
31:1 88:16
instruct
34:10,14 56:15 57:7
57:13 58:15 62:15
83:4 224:18
instructed
80:12 81:3 82:20
187:15 188:17,24
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instructing
214:18
instruction
10:11 16:5 20:3 62:12
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instructions
12:14 81:8 82:23
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129:1,3 219:9
intend
18:18 102:14
intended
111:16,18
intense
80:10,25 201:16
intent
161:9 168:13
intention
102:17 190:9
intentionally
54:18
intentions
97:13
1-800-325-3376
interested
134:24 226:14
interesting
62:3
interests
79:13 80:4 81:9
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interfere
26:3 57:24
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24:20 25:7
interject
45:6 109:24 137:16
interpretation
110:25
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46:8 123:1
intervening
175:8
interviewed
11:11,13
intimidated
187:5
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215:15
into
7:11 11:5 17:24 21:11
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91:19 123:2 137:19
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170:19 171:2,25
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introducing
123:2
intrude
63:14
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62:8
invading
60:14
invalid
216:24
invalidated
13:25
investigate
38:5
invitation
27:19
invoke
120:24 192:14,25
invoked
63:21
involuntarily
211:12
involuntary
88:21 212:9,24
involve
45:20 60:22
involved
11:7 15:18 66:19
80:15 81:5 91:15
132:3 201:22 202:6
involvement
13:13 14:22 15:8
involves
78:4,13 97:25 174:23
216:2
involving
25:6 93:3
in-house
127:10 128:22 133:15
134:10,12 136:2
146:5,8
irrelevant
196:2
irresponsible
67:12
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7:4 8:3,15,15 10:20
14:14 16:5,6,16
17:12,20,21,22 18:11
18:12 19:19 21:4,5,9
21:22 22:25 23:15
24:23 26:7,12 28:24
32:5 35:5 36:23
37:16 38:2 39:21
40:12,20,21,22 41:2
41:4,6 43:5,7,17
44:11,18 45:11,15
47:6 49:16 50:6,8
51:17 53:24,25 54:13
54:22,25 55:14,17,25
57:22 58:13,15 60:8
60:13 61:12 62:1,7
62:12 63:25 65:15
66:21,23,23 67:3
68:3,10 71:11,22
72:2,3,25 73:24
78:13,18 79:3 82:13
84:12 89:16,22,24
90:5,11 92:6 93:23
94:3,14 95:15,16
96:5,9 97:8 98:4,20
99:8,10,16 100:2,11
101:7,8,17,23 102:19
102:23 103:4,24
104:1,14,18,22 105:7
105:20,21 106:10,21
107:4,6,25 108:7,8
108:11,15 109:15
110:3,9,10,15 111:12
112:12,14,15,17,19
112:25 113:2,5,9,10
113:11,22,23 114:1
114:21,24 115:1
116:9 117:5 118:11
118:17,25 119:4,9,20
119:22,22,24 120:6,6
120:16 121:7,19
122:15,18,23 123:3
123:20 124:1,3,8,15
124:16,24,24 125:21
125:23,25,25 126:4
126:11,13,18,19
128:9,12,15 129:3,4
129:8,11,19,22,24
130:8,10,20,20,22,22
130:23 131:2,4,5,5,8
131:14,18,22,23
132:3,6,25 133:2,6,6
136:11 137:17
138:12 139:9,12,24
140:5 141:7 142:21
143:17 144:21,25


Page 29
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147:12,14,18,24
148:24 149:1,14
152:23 153:4,19
154:17,22 155:4,24
156:2 157:2 158:9,13
158:13 160:7,10
164:9,13,25 166:24
167:4,19,20,20,22,23
168:12,13,14,17,18
168:24 169:15,22,23
169:23 170:11,23,23
171:5,5,12 172:19,19
174:21 176:7 177:7
178:3,4,10 179:11
180:2,6 181:3,13,21
181:23,24 182:7,8,9
182:19,19 183:10,15
183:25 185:17,18,20
185:22 186:1,16
189:11,13,15 190:11
190:22 191:4,14,14
192:5,16 194:24
195:13 197:5,9,13,13
198:2,4,4,5,5,11
199:15,16,22 200:14
201:1,2 202:16,23
204:21 205:5,12,15
205:16 206:1,17,18
206:25 207:7,14
208:3,7,15,19 209:6
209:13,20,21,24
210:17,19,20 211:7,7
211:11,20 212:14
213:7,16,18 215:7,9
215:10,11,14 216:1
216:21 217:3,8,15,19
217:23 218:17 219:8
219:14,17,21 220:7
221:3 222:2,25 223:4
223:21 224:25 225:1
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20:22 68:2 120:15
123:22 124:17
127:20 178:5 179:19
179:25 185:18
1-800-325-3376
189:20 195:1 212:18

issue
18:11 19:9 43:21
44:12 102:21 107:17
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issued
113:3,16 115:7 123:21
issues
12:11 13:18 45:20
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136:10 137:21 138:6
174:7 175:6 176:4
177:9 178:2,10 216:2
it
7:25 10:18,23 11:7
12:21,22,22 13:2,3
13:11,23 15:15,24
16:13 17:8,10,11
18:3,18 19:4,12,17
20:4,8,9,10,17,18,19
20:19,21 21:12,12,24
22:6,19,25 23:8,18
23:22 25:18 26:19,23
27:17 30:14,16 31:2
31:17 34:8,18 35:6,9
35:13,14,19,20 37:5
37:18 38:3,4,5,15,22
39:8,16,16 40:10,14
40:15,23 42:24,25
43:1,12,14,15,19,19
43:19 44:6,9,11,13
44:13,14,17 46:19
47:9 49:5 50:20,21
51:17,19,23 52:5,5,9
52:9,10,14 53:19,22
54:3 55:11 56:9,11
56:15,17,18,24 57:2
58:3,6,25 59:6,7,8,14
62:1,6,7,7,20,23
63:19,24 64:2,10
65:1,15,16,16,16,18
65:20 67:11,20,22,24
159:7,12,16 160:4,19
68:3 70:11,16 71:14
160:21,21,22,23,24
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160:24,25 161:3,3
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162:20 163:6,14,18
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164:14,16,18,18,19
84:21 85:21 86:5,5,7
164:20,20,20 165:1,2
86:18 87:3,12,14,15
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167:8,16,17 168:1,11
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103:13 104:12
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105:25 108:7,24
178:24,25 179:6,14
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181:13 182:11,19
111:20 112:8,14,15
183:22 184:9,9,9
113:3,16,18,19,21
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117:24 118:2,14
189:20 190:9,22
119:19 120:18,24
191:4,9,9,25 192:11
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193:2,13,15,20,21
123:23,23,25 124:11
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124:14,14,15,15,17
195:18 196:5 197:7
124:19 126:3,18,19
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126:23,25 127:13
198:5 199:24 200:6,6
128:4 129:8,8,12,16
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131:4,5,5,6,7,18,20
205:2 206:12 208:3,5
131:21 132:15,21,22
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210:3,4,7 212:18
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146:6 147:4,8 148:13
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150:6 151:11,24
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153:5,5,8,20,25
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59:16,17,25 60:8,13


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68:17,18 69:1 71:9
112:18 113:10
73:17 74:7 79:17,24
120:12 123:18,18
85:6,11 87:14 97:15
126:6 128:17 129:6,9
97:16 99:12 101:9,14
129:25 131:16 133:8
102:15 106:4,16
133:8,19 135:15
108:23 109:16
138:18,19 139:21,24
111:11 113:1 114:23
142:1,11 144:19
116:1,9 117:1,3,3
147:16,22,23 148:24
121:5,12 122:17
157:4,10 171:1
123:13 126:11,22
178:23 186:19 191:2
127:4 128:14 133:17
191:7 192:8,10 196:1
133:20 136:16 138:5
199:11 206:7 208:5
138:10,20,22 139:18
210:23 214:8,9,10
140:10 142:5 148:25
216:23 217:3 219:16
150:15 152:12,25
219:19 220:5,6,8,11
153:12 154:20 155:5
220:11 221:25
155:23 156:3 157:3,8
222:15
157:10 158:1,20,22
IV
161:4,19,22 162:11
3:13
1-800-325-3376
163:17 167:5 170:2

174:21 176:15,19,20
176:20 177:1,13,13
178:14,19,21,21
180:6 181:4 182:4
185:18 186:14,25
187:1 188:7,9 189:11
189:21,21 191:16
192:9 193:23 194:11
195:8,17 196:7 198:6
200:12,12,21 203:20
203:24 204:12
209:23,23 210:6
211:5,14 212:16,19
212:19 213:1,14
214:10,23,25 215:3,4
215:21 216:13,23,24
218:3,17 219:11
222:4 223:19 224:8
I've
18:16 23:19 43:13
50:7 54:25 56:8
66:12 67:4,5,10,23
102:14 108:2 111:8
112:21 121:13
128:20 140:10
147:17 153:12,24
168:25 179:3 184:25
185:1,2 196:13 213:1
218:16
J
J
2:17
jacket
54:12
JACKSON
3:20
Jacksonville
134:13
JAG
7:11 33:11
James
3:12
Jane
2:1 6:1 226:23
Janet
14:11
Jay
2:16 3:21 71:14
114:24 122:18 153:4
Jay's
113:8 118:16 147:8
jay.d.adelstein@us...
2:21
jay@rileyjacksonla...
3:24
Jeff
30:15,17 38:25 71:19
115:1 119:9 120:16
120:17 122:19
Jefferson
1:9 5:17 7:4,7,24 9:6
9:23 12:1,19 13:5
26:4,25 33:9 34:1
35:21 36:13,21 44:25
47:16 90:19 103:2,22
103:25 104:17 105:2
105:3,6,23 107:1,2
110:4 113:24 115:1
117:19 118:18
122:19 124:24 132:2
134:3,10 136:17,19
139:7,10 144:4
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Jeffrey
1:24 6:10,14 7:2
Jeff's
32:7
job
11:18 29:14 31:1,4,13
33:21 70:12 83:7
93:12 140:19,20
141:7,15 177:22
178:22 183:4 205:19
206:2
Joe
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John
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Page 31
Joseph
2:17
Jr
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judge
20:18 21:12 25:5,12
25:16,18,19 26:20
29:2 82:8 91:7
judges
103:16
judgment
59:15 61:18 70:6 82:2
83:13,18 87:25
102:16 136:21 171:1
197:7,10
judgments
67:8
July
1:25 6:9 105:24 179:4
225:7
junior
143:5,7
just
8:23 9:1 19:8 20:3
23:10 28:11,17 29:25
33:9 34:8,21 35:14
37:14 39:13,16 40:13
45:17 46:15 48:5,8
48:19 50:16 51:15,24
53:19 60:19 65:13
66:18 67:18 68:1
79:18,25 82:5 86:6
89:9 91:3,9,10 99:13
99:14,20 103:18
111:10 116:1,23
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120:19 121:5,13
122:3 129:11 131:21
132:17 133:8,8 136:6
136:7,20 138:20
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154:2,13 155:13,22
156:13 158:1 159:4
167:17,23 168:3
170:4 175:22 178:19
179:5,21 181:24
1-800-325-3376
182:5 185:16,17
177:14 189:5
191:4,6,17,18 194:6 Knight's
200:1 201:6 208:24
172:23,24
216:11 217:2,8 218:4 knives
218:6,8 221:20
185:24
JUSTICE
know
2:14
8:14,22,25 11:2,15
justified
12:22 14:7,10,11,13
139:14
14:14,15 15:8 19:16
justify
27:7,15 29:20,23
30:21 35:10,13 39:15
139:19
39:17 41:2,13,19
K
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keep
44:3,11,12,13,19
65:1 70:19 89:20
53:13 54:18 55:1,20
140:9 157:17 184:24
56:5,7 60:7,15 61:11
196:5
61:12,14,17 62:1,8
keeps
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131:9
67:20 68:5,16,20
Kennedy
72:19 81:20,21,21,23
5:13
81:24 82:5,5,9 83:4
Kenneth
86:18 87:14 88:25
113:13
94:20 96:15,22 98:1
kept
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125:24 210:15
112:1,19 113:17,22
kick
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115:2
125:17 127:1 129:6
kin
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226:13
134:11 135:2,8,9,22
kind
137:16 138:7,15,20
8:25 9:1 42:24 44:1,7
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44:13 90:5 116:9
146:4 149:4,5,21
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183:19
154:24 155:8,24
Klee
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113:13
159:13,14,24 160:1
knew
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43:15 133:22 149:6
170:21 171:8 173:14
160:7 188:1
175:2 176:11,18
knife
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88:25
184:13 185:11
Knight
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25:23 26:1,21 44:21
195:25 198:5 199:6
148:7,15 149:2,15
203:19,19 204:10
154:6,12 158:4
206:3,4,6 207:1,5
173:16 175:4 177:13
208:24,24 210:5,18
211:17 213:16
214:14,15,17,25
215:18 216:9 217:5
218:8,22 219:3,12
221:16,21
knowing
19:18 38:9 61:23,23
134:24
knowingly
78:21
knowledge
16:7 32:7 89:22 136:6
218:23 219:5
knows
120:8 132:4
Koorji
4:10 221:18,22,25
222:8
L
L
3:12
label
171:15 196:4
laid
195:10
lanes
9:3
language
167:18,21
laptop
87:9,11
LARGE
226:4
larger
127:14
last
18:2 19:15,24 49:10
57:11 64:3 93:20,22
94:1,2 98:17 133:22
145:19 147:12
203:22
late
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51:22 81:24 84:21
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later
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75:23 81:7 181:10
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201:24 203:5
latter
59:9
law
7:9,9,11 13:9 15:24
24:23,23 27:18 36:1
36:24 41:25 49:21,25
73:21 74:8,16 93:13
96:2 116:13 124:7
171:3 172:1,6,13
173:4 174:14 206:9
222:13,19 223:3
lawful
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194:22 199:11 200:7
lawfulness
199:23
Lawson
4:2 8:16 9:13,15,22
10:7 35:7 83:22
205:10,22
lawson@jccal.org
4:7
lawsuit
137:18 138:6 174:3
lawyer
33:11 63:18 68:16
93:5,6 110:4 115:1
146:7,8 174:23 180:5
194:20 206:8 212:13
212:16,18,19
lawyering
196:3
lawyers
11:17,20 48:12,18
68:19 83:22 96:7
116:13 117:17 124:6
124:9,13,17,25
125:19 127:13
140:24 141:8 145:20
146:5,5 191:12,19
1-800-325-3376
192:3 198:9,19,21
199:12 200:5
lay
195:8
lead
206:8
leading
83:16
learn
203:4
learned
98:13
learning
113:23
least
16:16 41:18 61:15
155:16
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20:4 61:2 70:16 71:2
72:5 73:5,17 74:18
76:10,15,25 77:4,8
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101:18 110:5,10
111:24 183:14,18,22
183:25,25 188:10,15
188:23 189:25 190:6
190:13 198:16,23
201:9 217:20 218:17
219:2
leaving
112:12 114:17 174:2
led
182:9 201:7 205:16
left
111:25 188:2 198:17
legal
20:17 30:19,24 31:10
35:17,20 40:24 45:11
45:12,23 53:17 54:6
54:20,22 55:9 65:12
66:2,6,10,16,22
68:11 70:10,10,14
104:9,10,12 107:7
109:11,16,19 122:1
122:21 124:4 125:8
127:14,22 134:3,4,12
135:25 136:10
187:19,20 188:20,21
189:7 198:20 213:9
legally
99:10,13
legislative
168:13
lengthy
201:13
less
127:10 130:16 140:21
145:23 151:24
205:11
let
16:25 19:5,21 30:23
39:18 40:19 45:6
46:7 49:1 50:7,16
53:11 54:11 57:21
68:21 71:13,23 77:22
77:22 78:1 80:19
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155:5,8 156:22 166:5
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letter
5:6 50:8,14 51:18 52:8
53:4,8,10 64:25 69:9
71:18 72:3,3,16 75:2
76:8,14,19 175:14
186:19
letterhead
35:6
letters
219:11
let's
24:11 31:2 34:3 44:16
89:9 121:14,15
136:20 155:16
186:21 196:19 200:1
204:6 215:5,6,24
216:16
level
142:7 144:8,10,13
145:1
liaison
167:8
Liberty
3:5
licensed
226:17
life
214:6
like
16:20 30:12 31:20
43:16 50:14 54:3
60:24 65:16 67:3,9
68:13 82:19 88:24
94:22,22 98:21 99:7
99:9 101:6 102:5
111:10 128:23
137:25 139:18 149:6
151:2 156:4 167:16
173:20 179:10 181:5
188:12 216:10
224:12
limit
30:14,16 137:25
limited
21:10 30:5 187:18
188:20
line
124:3 143:11,17,18
lined
166:9 167:21
lines
116:7 148:16
list
12:24 173:5 174:6,15
listen
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listened
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Page 33
litigation
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little
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132:11 153:12
161:20
Little-Brown
52:14 59:18,22 63:9
64:7 66:5 68:25
69:17 70:18 75:10
85:1,17 86:10 100:15
100:20
LLP
2:7 3:3
lobbied
11:18
local
134:4 135:25
location
143:22
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20:25 21:2 55:18,22
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logged
131:5,5,7,7
long
19:8 79:25 132:13
198:9 203:17
longer
123:20 171:17,19
173:5 174:15
Long-term
72:21
look
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73:15,22,23 74:7
76:7 110:7 113:18
118:13,14 121:13
124:19 133:12 153:1
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166:5,8 167:16,16
196:10 202:15 205:6
207:6 212:21
looked
119:23 134:9
1-800-325-3376
looking
39:1 47:2 119:18
172:16
looks
137:25
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177:13 179:3
lot
35:15,16 101:5 124:12
129:18 140:11
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116:12
Lowe
3:3,4 16:8 17:16,16,18
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114:3,5 115:15,17,20
120:5,15,23 121:4,9
121:13 122:2 123:1,9
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128:12 129:13 133:4
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138:13,17 139:21
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144:18,20 145:4
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153:14 154:11
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177:12 178:17
179:18 180:11 182:1
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186:16,24 187:3
191:22 192:8,19
194:3,8 195:5,10,14
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196:15,18,22 197:1
202:8,12,15 203:22
204:1 211:19 213:9
213:16,20,24 214:4,9
214:12,20,23 215:1,5
215:11,13,15,20,24
216:5,9,13,16 217:24
218:2,6,13 223:4,25
224:4,17
Lowell
17:15
lunch
51:21,21 52:11 84:19
84:21 101:8 102:8
140:11
L-O-W-E
17:16
M
M
1:12,24 6:10,14 7:2
made
16:13 22:22 29:1
30:13,15 32:1 80:16
81:6 86:23 97:6
107:23 109:9 116:8
117:7,14 120:18,20
121:11,14 125:16
127:16 138:8 146:11
148:8 154:14 166:7
170:16,17 184:12,17
185:12 189:18 192:2
192:17,22 193:22,23
194:8,14 201:22
210:14 212:5 223:1
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90:11,14
major
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majority
79:12 188:11 201:8
make
19:5 38:9 41:23,24,24
57:22 61:4 102:15
105:16 117:13 119:4
123:19 124:19
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134:22 135:2,7
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171:21
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17:22 24:15 25:18
34:15 58:13 67:7
112:16 133:5 150:10
152:6 194:4 196:11
Malcolm
143:1
man
141:23
manage
134:23
management
48:17 49:21 50:2
manager
24:19 36:1,8,21,24
42:16 43:25 44:2
141:18 148:11
149:18,20 163:3,7,19
164:1 165:9 166:3,16
166:22,24 167:2
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170:13,20 171:10,12
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Page 34
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managers
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manager's
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managing
124:1
manner
75:16
many
15:25 31:22 71:11
81:25 84:8 108:7
130:12 145:15,15
175:23 178:2 179:22
MAR
5:2
March
12:19 14:8 122:20
125:14 129:20 130:5
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136:15 141:16 145:6
146:10 150:8,24
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39:18 71:9 105:13
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210:24
market
142:8
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113:1 114:23 122:17
marks
1-800-325-3376
41:16
MARTIN
1:12
Martin-Bryant
23:2 97:9
material
62:8
matter
8:20 45:12 54:5,15
57:5 58:9 66:23 93:3
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199:10
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28:24 47:21 66:11,20
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16:24 17:8 28:10
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Maybe
166:12 177:19
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3:13
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3:10 83:22
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37:22
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8:16
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6:7 14:15 16:25 19:21
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32:6 34:12 37:23
39:1,18 40:19 41:2
41:17 42:1,3 44:4
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64:5 68:21 69:9
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216:12,22 218:4
219:25 220:4 221:9
221:11,23 222:13,15
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29:19 36:5 38:21,25
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196:5 198:5,18 202:8
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106:15
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127:1 169:18 226:8
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149:14
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175:16
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26:24 27:8,11,13,15
27:17,24 28:2,6,22
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160:15 161:7,13
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163:17 165:14,17
171:23 172:25
173:17,21,22 176:1,2
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Page 35
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204:20 207:12,24
208:7,10,13 209:14
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meetings
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32:5,8
members
27:4,10 115:11
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32:18,22 33:7,19,25
34:5,17,21,21,24
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183:10 187:8,14,21
187:22,24 197:16
199:20 200:8 205:8
205:10,13,15 206:1
206:21 207:4 222:13
222:20 223:1,23
224:1
memorandum
5:5,17 13:9 15:24 20:7
21:23 22:2,15 34:9
35:17 36:11 38:16
40:11 43:17 44:6,9
1-800-325-3376
51:9 62:19,19 63:2

63:10 64:8 65:8,25
85:3,19 94:12 95:7
100:8 122:18,23
130:4 134:6,19 149:8
149:24
memories
82:23
memory
35:5 43:2 91:3 107:21
161:5 172:14 193:13
205:12
memos
35:15,16 84:7 156:18
176:14
mental
38:3
mentioned
69:23 106:21 178:8
mentions
163:14
merit
28:23 141:2,19
mess
112:8
met
14:13 66:4 72:13
77:11 155:21 181:20
201:10
middle
118:25 217:18
midway
106:8
might
21:12 39:13 49:9
74:10 92:7 110:10
136:23 147:7 210:3
212:6
mind
74:19 139:25 143:24
185:11
mine
37:20 128:18 141:5
221:24
minor
130:12
minute
37:15 94:18,23 99:20
minutes
11:9 146:15 203:23
204:6 220:18 222:1
misleading
87:24 126:25
missing
151:23
mistake
97:6
mistaken
59:23,24 60:13 82:14
Mitchell
3:12 223:12,24
moment
39:1 49:2 53:11 98:24
100:7 103:19 139:13
179:11 220:1
moments
179:4
Monday
10:24 155:18 156:2
184:18 188:16,21
money
124:6 125:18 127:21
134:20,23 211:2,11
212:9,10 217:20
Montgomery
206:15
month
180:25
months
13:19 36:20 43:21
131:6 149:12
MOORE
2:7
more
19:5 24:9 56:6 63:19
67:4,24 70:11 91:14
93:6 95:17 99:24
109:20 110:17 113:6
120:22 127:10
136:24 138:19,20
143:8 154:25 163:19
164:18,20 176:14,16
204:1 215:25
morning
6:23,24 71:5 72:9
120:20 138:4 158:21
177:5 181:7,15
183:11 184:17,19
187:2 188:23 189:25
190:6,13 203:8
morning's
102:14
most
9:12 120:25
mostly
50:14
motion
23:2 90:25 91:3 161:5
161:7,13
motivated
204:17
move
19:6 20:4 75:23 78:17
159:19
moved
168:1 206:15
moving
119:10
Mr
2:8,16,17 3:4,11,12,13
3:21 4:2,18,19,21
6:20,22,23 7:20 9:14
9:15,18,20,22,22
10:5,7,7,17 12:9 16:1
16:5,6,8,14,17,19,20
16:22,22,23 17:1,5,6
17:6,14,16,17,18,20
17:22 18:1,2,6,14,19
18:22,24 19:3,7,11
19:13,14,21,23,25
20:1,2,5,6,13,14,16
20:20 21:1,3,8,14,21
21:22 22:8,9,10,11
22:13,14 23:7,9,10
23:12,16 26:3,7 27:7
28:9,14 29:19,25
30:2,2,5,9,10,16,18
30:23 34:7,8,12,13


Page 36
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36:14,15,17 37:2,4,7
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38:2,12,19,21,23,24
38:25 39:2,6,11,18
39:23,24 40:1,5,12
40:15,17,19,20,21
41:9,11,12,20 42:14
42:18 43:23 44:4,18
45:6,9,17,21,22,25
46:1,5,7,9,10,17,21
47:2,5,7,9,11 48:3,5
48:6,8,10,19,24 49:3
49:4,9,13,15,23
53:23,24 54:1,7,9,14
54:17,25 55:2,5,8,12
56:12,20,22 57:10,18
57:19,21,22 58:2,4,6
58:12,17,21 60:1,5,7
60:11,19 61:1,4,8,21
62:2,11,13,14,15,17
62:18 63:3,4,12,15
63:24 64:2,4,7,9,11
64:14,17,20,21,24,24
65:9,11,13,15,16,19
65:22,24 66:1,4,9,12
66:14,18,25 67:2,14
67:17,18,19,22 68:2
68:6,8,9,19,20,21,23
68:25 69:1,3,5,6,7,10
70:3,5,15,23,25 71:9
71:11,13,15,16,23
75:18,21,22,24 76:1
76:4,5,7 77:13 78:3,4
78:7,11,12,15 79:7
80:12 81:2,7 82:13
82:19 83:16,17,22,25
84:1,4 85:6,9,10,11
85:14,25 86:4,7
87:21 90:3,8 94:15
94:17,20,21,24 95:2
95:6,10,12,14,15,18
95:20,22,24,25 97:12
97:15,16,18,19,24
98:2,4,6,8,11,25 99:4
1-800-325-3376
99:7,10,12,14,16,25
100:1,9,10,23 101:1
101:3,5,10,12,14,19
101:20,21,24,25
102:2,4,6,7,10,13
103:1,6,9,11,18,21
104:8,16 105:13,16
105:21 108:6,12,17
108:21,25 109:1,6,13
109:14,23 110:2,6,7
110:19,22,24 111:4,5
111:22 112:5,9 113:4
113:7,14,15 114:3,4
114:5,8,22,24 115:4
115:5,5,15,16,17,19
115:20,22 116:1
117:11 118:5,16,20
118:21,22 120:5,14
120:15,19,23 121:2,4
121:6,9,12,13,16
122:2,3,16,23 123:1
123:6,9,11,12,15,16
123:21 124:19,23
126:3,6,15,17 128:12
128:14,19 129:13,22
130:4 132:19,25
133:2,4,9,22 135:6
135:11,15,19,22
136:1,4 137:16,17,22
138:12,13,15,17,24
139:21,23,24 140:2,5
140:7,8,9,10,15,18
142:4,10,12,13,14,15
142:18,20,21 143:5,8
144:11,14,18,19,20
144:22,24 145:1,4,6
146:14,17,20 147:2,3
147:4,7,10,14,14,21
147:25 149:16,22
151:19,22,24 152:3
152:15,18,19,24
153:3,10,14,18
154:10,11,16 155:7
157:7,8,12,14,16,19
157:24 158:3 159:22
159:24 160:2,6 163:8
163:16,22,24 164:2,6
164:10,13 168:16,18
168:22,23,24 172:23
173:12,19 174:8,10
174:12 175:4 176:6,7
176:8,10,12,15
177:12,13,14,16
178:17,21 179:17,18
179:19,24,25 180:10
180:11,15 182:1,4,5
182:8,15,16,18 183:7
183:9 185:8,12,15,17
185:20,22,23 186:1
186:16,23,24,25
187:3,6,7 188:10,16
188:23 190:17,18,21
191:22 192:5,8,16,19
193:3,5 194:3,3,6,8
194:11 195:5,8,10,12
195:14,16,17,19,21
195:23 196:1,3,7,9
196:10,13,15,17,18
196:20,22,25 197:1,3
197:3 199:25 200:8
201:3,9,11,13,19,24
202:7,8,10,12,14,15
202:22,25 203:5,15
203:17,19,22,24
204:1,2,3,5,7,10
205:6,22 206:22
207:2 211:19 213:8,9
213:14,16,18,20,23
213:24 214:1,4,7,9
214:10,12,17,20,22
214:23,25 215:1,3,5
215:9,11,12,13,14,15
215:19,20,22,24
216:1,5,8,9,11,13,15
216:16,18,19 217:1,2
217:5,9,10,12,13,16
217:17,24 218:1,2,4
218:6,10,13,14,15,21
218:23 220:7,8,9,11
220:13,17,19,22,24
221:1,2,11,13,14,17
221:20,23 222:2,4,6
222:7,16 223:4,7,9
223:11,12,14,16,17
223:19,24,25 224:2,4
224:6,8,9,14,15,17
224:20 225:1
Mrs
14:13 64:7 66:5 68:25
Ms
3:14 4:10 72:17 75:1
206:17 221:18,22,25
222:8
much
32:6 39:15 83:20
102:10 118:3 127:21
224:21
multiple
131:24,25 132:16
multitude
179:1
multi-hour
79:16
Murphy
3:14 35:7 205:11,12
206:17
Murrill
3:21 102:2
must
90:11 95:12 141:8
208:25
mutually
184:14
my
8:11 10:25 14:1 16:7,7
16:25 19:11,14,19
25:2 35:5,5,6 40:21
44:10 47:6 49:21
50:2 51:24,24 52:5,6
53:5 54:11,12 55:12
56:25 57:1,11 59:15
62:13 68:3,10,18
70:12 72:11 73:16
77:22 78:18 81:18,19
82:21 84:9 86:6 87:4
87:11,14 88:11
101:17,17 102:11,15
102:16 106:18


Page 37
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119:24 121:14
126:17 130:6 132:6
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143:24 145:14,17,22
146:15 147:2 148:25
153:10,18 154:16
157:10 164:11
165:25 168:7,7,17,17
169:25 170:1,25
171:1,5 172:14,20,22
174:20,21 175:7,20
177:7 178:22 181:23
181:23 182:6,18
183:4 184:2,3,15,25
185:1,2,3 187:24
189:11 190:8,9,11
193:9,13 194:12,16
195:23 197:10
199:12 200:4 204:21
206:7,25 207:22
209:21,21 210:23
214:1,18 216:3
218:10 220:5,13
222:22 226:19
myself
32:21 74:4 114:14
117:13
N
N
2:5 4:5,15
NAACP
1:17
name
6:25 35:6 96:25
171:16 226:19
named
14:11
names
205:9,13
nature
78:24 184:4
1-800-325-3376
necessarily
60:22 103:25
need
18:17 19:10 27:19
37:15 41:23,23 44:17
49:4 53:19 58:12
60:1 67:18 74:3,6
153:14 157:16
171:19,19 173:4
174:14 182:2 186:17
195:21,22 204:22,23
204:23 207:15 217:8
222:11,18 223:5
224:24
needed
24:20 89:10 184:6
needs
93:14,15,18
negative
31:19 33:21 46:13
116:19 117:6
negatively
116:3
negotiate
189:3
negotiating
80:10 82:16 83:1
201:17
negotiation
81:1 114:16 189:1
201:5
negotiations
79:14 80:5,13 81:4,10
82:20,22 83:3 188:14
189:6,8 201:15,20
202:1,20
neither
226:12
neutral
204:22,23
never
18:16 43:21 87:2,5,23
118:1 131:20,20
149:12 165:2,24
184:25 185:1,2
208:22,22
new
2:11 80:11 81:2,15
82:1,9,11,15 93:24
94:3 97:23 201:18
news
36:18 37:1,12 56:13
newspaper
39:10 40:10 94:1
108:15 121:7 123:24
182:25
next
10:24 41:2 81:10
110:13 140:14
164:22 189:2 202:2
202:22 203:7
night
175:20 189:16,17
190:14,15,23 194:14
199:1 216:6
nine
139:2
nine-month
209:18
no
1:6,11,16 4:17 8:22
9:9,17 11:22 13:6
14:6 15:2,10 18:20
18:24 21:5,5,10,11
21:16,17,18 23:9,10
26:5 28:25 31:11,21
38:10 40:17 45:1
46:9,11,16,17 47:3,5
47:6,7 48:5,7,8,15
49:13,16 50:2,3,25
54:6 55:1 59:1,5,15
59:15 61:8 62:22,25
63:6 65:2,23 66:12
66:17 68:1,2,9,9 69:7
69:13 70:21,22,23,24
73:6,12 75:4,17 76:2
76:4,17,21 77:1,5,9
77:12,16,20 79:1
80:6 82:5,11,12 85:9
85:10,11 87:1,11
88:22,24 89:7,21
97:15 99:12,12 100:5
100:13 102:2 105:4

105:16 106:18
111:14,16,16 112:6
114:14 115:24
116:11 117:22,22
118:6 120:9 121:6
122:8,12 123:3 126:2
128:6,17 129:24
132:8,9,12,14 136:15
137:12 142:16,20
145:3,3 146:2,3,11
150:20 151:25
153:12 154:14
155:20 157:18
159:12,14 160:10,14
161:12 162:6,6
168:15,19 169:4,8
170:21 171:17,19,21
173:19 174:10
176:13,25,25 177:1,1
177:3,3 179:20 180:1
182:7 183:23 186:9,9
187:15 188:17 190:3
193:10 195:21
196:13 199:14
200:10,20 203:21
204:2,5,19 209:7
210:6 212:12,23
213:23 214:20,20,23
215:14,19 216:13
220:3,8,11 221:25
nodding
38:19
None
45:2
nonstop
81:25
non-employees
105:11
non-party
56:13
nor
226:13,14
normal
51:23 208:8,9,11
North


Page 38
3:15
NORTHERN
1:2
not
6:20 8:21,21 9:2 10:23
11:13 12:4,21 13:15
14:6,6 15:10 16:6,10
16:19,20,23 17:2,7
19:18 21:6 22:11,13
23:19 27:23 28:16
30:11,11,16 32:5,6
33:9 34:4,9,11,14,17
36:6,10,16,21 37:5
38:13 39:13 40:8,22
41:7,14 46:3,8 47:19
48:8 49:16,19,24
51:11,17 52:22 53:12
54:18 56:8,16 57:13
58:15,18 60:24 62:4
62:15 63:13 64:5,21
64:22 66:3,22 67:8
67:16 69:23,25 71:16
74:7 75:4,15 76:12
79:12,18,21,22,23,24
80:3 81:8 82:11,21
85:11 86:5,5 87:1
88:22 89:24 91:10
92:7 93:25 94:11
95:12 97:6,16 98:21
99:9,12 100:3 101:4
101:17 102:16
103:25 104:14
106:16,22 108:23
110:24 112:17,18
113:12 114:18
115:24 116:11,24
117:1,25 118:3
120:18 121:4,12
123:13,23 126:1
127:5,5 128:4,22
129:6 131:4 133:17
133:20,23 134:6,6,7
134:15,18 136:7,23
137:8,10 138:5,9,10
139:8,10,21,24
141:14,15,22 143:17
1-800-325-3376
143:18 144:19 145:2

145:13,17 148:17,17
148:18,19,19,21
152:13 155:17
158:13,13,14 160:11
161:4,16,24 162:1,6
162:25 163:2,9
165:18 166:19,20
167:2,5 168:20
169:11,19,23,23,25
170:18 172:7,14
178:22,23 179:20
180:2,25 181:16
182:4 187:18,22
188:12,20,25 189:3,7
189:11 190:7,8,9,18
190:24 191:7,8,10,15
192:7 193:17,23,24
194:22 196:7,12,13
197:8,13,17 199:11
199:12 200:2,3,13
201:2,25 203:20
204:2,19 209:17,19
209:21 210:3,6
211:14,18 212:14,19
213:1,12,21,24 214:2
214:5,18 215:1,9,10
215:12,14 216:13,20
216:23,25 217:19
218:8 219:4,11 220:5
220:6,8,11 223:24
224:18 225:4
Notary
2:3 6:2 226:25
note
18:7 41:14 66:18 90:6
153:7
notes
107:22
nothing
57:8 78:20 100:23
101:10 170:10
171:10 174:2 183:24
208:11 215:6 224:21
notice
73:18 97:21 98:2
112:21 198:23
noticed
101:15
notices
220:5
noticing
97:9,14
notification
71:7
notified
48:17
notify
93:12
November
7:25 8:1,5 10:13,24
11:9,24 73:24 74:12
105:23 107:18
118:17 121:24
139:11 182:25 183:2
now
8:15 15:11 29:6 33:24
40:10,15 46:4 51:1
53:8 55:25 68:18
70:25 81:14 82:6
84:22 88:4 90:16
94:12 98:19 110:7
113:18 121:5,7 123:8
126:20 141:18 153:5
162:10 164:2 172:16
173:8,19 174:4
180:15 181:6 186:19
189:9 192:9 199:24
200:6 208:2 216:3,8
217:17 218:7 221:7
nullifying
209:4
number
22:2 55:10 59:25
60:21 61:6 80:11
81:1 126:16 128:16
129:21 130:3,11,15
131:7,10 132:18
133:7 143:16 157:9
163:12 168:20 169:2
170:23 200:2 201:18
211:7 223:9 226:19
numbering
105:15
NY
2:11
N.W
2:19
O
object
16:1,2,23 17:5,6 20:16
28:9 36:9 37:7 38:4
41:7 48:25 56:14
60:14,23 64:17 68:10
95:10 114:3 115:15
120:5 135:15 142:10
144:17,22 154:11
163:22 173:12
177:12 179:18 182:1
218:13
objected
144:13
objecting
55:24 57:3 68:6
120:24
objection
16:9 17:22 18:3 19:5,9
19:15,15 20:3,13
22:8 23:7 34:7,16,17
36:2,14,16 37:2
38:10,22 40:18 45:7
45:14,18 46:17 48:3
54:8 58:3,14,20
63:12,25 65:11,14,17
66:9,21 69:7 70:3,23
75:18 83:16 84:1
85:5 94:15 97:24
98:1,7,9 109:13,14
111:22 112:5 114:4
115:16 117:11
132:19,25 133:2
135:6 136:1 140:18
144:11,18,24 147:21
152:1 154:10 157:24
164:2,10 168:16,22
176:6,8,12 179:17,24
180:10,11 182:15,16


Page 39
185:15 199:19,23,25
202:7 206:22 213:8
218:21
objections
18:10,13,15 19:1 56:2
56:5 120:20
objectives
217:7,14
objects
16:17 21:17
obligation
91:23 92:5 174:20
203:6 215:17
obligations
83:9 92:10 218:20
obstruct
67:9
obtain
94:8
obtained
36:25 37:13
obvious
79:4
obviously
170:3
occasion
87:24 112:2 147:19
162:15
occupational
13:25
occupied
142:8
occupy
175:20
occur
98:11
occurred
23:22 94:1 98:16
179:5 190:7 191:11
202:21 208:3
October
10:23 11:9 12:25 13:4
29:6 107:18 108:16
109:12,24 110:2
113:9 114:25 117:8
121:24 180:18
1-800-325-3376
182:25
odd
141:23
of
1:2,7,14,17,23 2:14
5:3,5,6,9,9,11,12,14
5:15,17,18,18,19,19
5:21,21,22 6:3,5,6,9
7:23,25 8:1,4,5,9,15
8:20,22,24,25 9:1,10
9:12,13,23 10:13,21
11:7,9,19,19,20 12:7
12:21,25 13:2,8,9,11
13:21,22,23 14:5,8,8
14:17 15:9,13,15,20
15:22,24,25,25 16:1
16:15 17:23 18:11,17
19:18 20:15,22 22:2
22:3,3,6,15,18,18,22
23:18,21,24 24:2
25:11,11,14,16 26:1
26:4,24 27:4,6,10
28:10,15,18,23,24
29:1,14,14 31:8,23
32:5,6,8,13,18,24
33:7,14,21,24 34:9
34:16,18 35:11,15,16
36:17,22,23 37:13,25
38:7 39:10,16,16,19
39:21,24 40:11,14
41:5,7,9,13,17,25
42:4,21,24 43:1,2,9
44:1,7,13,14 45:5,15
45:15 46:13,14,24
47:11,15,21,23 48:1
48:1,11,12,16,17,25
49:3,18,21 50:2,5,13
50:17 51:6,6,9,16
52:18 53:3,4,9,10,13
54:15,22 55:10,16
56:5 57:16 58:19
59:3 60:8,12,18 61:9
61:15,18 62:7,7 63:4
63:9,25 64:23,23
66:7,15 67:6,6 68:13
68:24 69:2,4,16 70:8
70:9,19 71:5,21
72:11,21 73:21,23
74:5,12,20 76:14
77:6,10,14,18 78:23
79:12,13 80:2,4,10
80:11,20,25 81:1,9
81:14 82:2,3,8,9,20
82:22,23,23 83:2,6
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open


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performing
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perhaps
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Page 44
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15:6 43:8 55:19 56:19
56:23 89:17 214:7
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56:14
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54:23 62:24 68:13
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production
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professionals
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80:15 81:6 201:22
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172:2,5,10
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promoted
8:2
proper
165:23
properly
66:21
property
185:1 186:11
proposal
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proposed
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protected
40:22 68:16
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162:23 163:25 165:6
166:1
provided
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provides
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providing
16:2 125:5 157:20
provision
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15:25 106:1
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43:12 58:14,18 149:2
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94:4 98:22 99:2
100:3 115:11,18,25
119:11,14,20 123:22
124:16 125:3,3,4
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150:13 151:10
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publicized
117:4
publicly
223:10
published
42:25 44:14
pull
44:6 149:24
pulled
209:19
purely
18:3 38:14
purported
160:25 194:18 200:3
purporting
43:9
purpose
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pursuant
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put
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puts
17:24
putting
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95:1,1 99:22,22 102:9
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10:13,16,19 11:2,11
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23:16,21,24 24:2,5,8
24:11 25:2,10,14,17
25:20,22,25 26:20,24
27:3,7,10,13,15,19
27:22,24 28:1,4,8,14
28:19,22 29:4,6,10
29:12,16,18 30:23
31:8,12,15,18,22,25
32:4,13,16,25 33:3,5
33:13,17,19,24 34:3
34:5 35:2,4,10,13,17
35:20,23 36:7,11,17
37:4,10 38:12,18
39:11 40:5,8 41:20
42:3,8,18,21 43:3,7
44:18,22 45:3 46:21
1-800-325-3376
47:11,15,19,21,23,25
48:10,16 49:23 50:1
50:7,16,21 51:1,4,9
51:12,14,18 52:1,4,7
52:12,18,20,24 53:3
53:6,8,13,16 55:8
58:21,25 59:2,6,10
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63:1,7 64:24 65:3,7
65:24 66:4,14 68:23
69:10,14,19,23 70:1
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71:23 72:2,7,10,17
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73:13,15,23 74:11,17
74:22 75:1,5,9,14
76:7,13,18,22 77:2,6
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78:1 79:7,20,23 80:1
80:7,19 81:14,24
82:3,6,13,18,25 83:6
83:9,13,17,20 84:4
84:14,16,22 85:14,24
86:7,10,12,16,20,23
87:7,10,18 88:4,13
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90:21,23 91:6,13,18
91:22 92:1,4,9,14,17
92:21,24 93:1,10,17
93:22 94:3,6,8,10,12
95:25 96:9,12,18,24
97:3,8,19 98:11,17
98:19 100:1,6,10,14
100:17,20 103:2,11
103:14,21 104:3,16
104:20,25 105:3,5,10
105:21 106:1,5,12,18
106:24 107:2,4,13,16
107:21 108:2,12,15
109:1,4,10,21 110:7
111:5,11,15,18 112:1
112:9,15 113:1,15,18
114:1,8,16,22 115:5
115:10 116:1,6,18
117:1 118:5,12,22
185:17 186:1,6,9,14
119:7,16,20 120:3
187:7,13 188:4
121:16,23 122:3,9,23
189:11,16 190:3,8,21
123:21 124:1,5,8,14
191:4,16 193:5,14,20
124:16,23 125:5,11
194:11,24 197:3,7,14
125:13,21,25 126:6,9
197:20 198:2,5,12,18
126:11,17,19,22
198:23,25 199:4,15
127:11,19 128:3,8,19
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129:9,22 130:1 131:1
200:25 202:6,22
131:13,17,22 132:6
132:12,15 133:9,22
203:13 204:10,13,20
134:1,16,22 135:4,11
205:6,15,18,22,25
135:22 136:4,11
206:6,11,14,17,20
137:1,6,10,15 138:24
207:2,6,11,17,21,24
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208:2,10,13,17,21
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142:4,21 143:8,12,18
210:11,14,19,23
143:21 144:3,7,14,17
211:5,10,15,19,23,25
144:22 145:1,6,9,12
212:4,8,13,17,21
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213:3 217:17 218:15
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218:19,23 219:5,8,14
148:22 150:7,14,22
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221:2,7 222:16,23,25
152:12,24 153:10,18
154:4,16 155:5,16,24 qualified
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16:2,17,22 17:5 19:3,4
161:21 162:3,9,20,22
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164:6,13,19,22 165:2
24:14,18 25:3 26:2,6
165:4,6,13,20,25
26:11,15 30:5 34:8
166:5,14 167:4,6,13
37:8,23 38:2,7 39:9
167:18,22 168:2,7,14
39:11 40:12 41:2,3,4
168:18,24 169:1,5,9
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45:15 46:3,11,18
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178:14,21 179:10,19
58:1,4 60:3,11,17
179:21,25 180:4,15
61:10,19 62:3,10
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64:15,16,22 65:21
181:24 182:8,12,18
66:10 67:1,15,25
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68:4,22 70:21 74:19
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61:9 62:6 63:13,14
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197:14
rating
122:10
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50:8
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37:11 56:3
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79:5
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23:24 24:2,8 37:10
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173:3 174:12,21,22
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190:10 191:5,6 192:1
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190:12
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26:23 32:12 37:6
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86:24 115:6,8,9
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150:5 154:13 196:24
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154:23
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124:17 125:2 126:24
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97:16
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112:17 121:15
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16:13 116:11 145:18
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41:16 119:1,8,24
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quotations
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92:21 120:2,15,16
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really
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111:23 128:7 138:17
144:21 176:18
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120:9 151:1 156:17
177:24 178:5 186:9
186:10 189:24
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101:22
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14:17 15:5 20:6,9,10
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24:24 25:1,4,10,22
25:25 26:18,19,20,23
28:4,8,11,14,17,18
28:22 29:3,12,16
31:18,24,25 32:4,10
32:11,16,21 33:4,6
33:12,15,15 37:5
39:12 41:20 42:2,8
42:17,21 45:2,3
46:25 47:8,10 50:13
53:12 58:21,24 59:2
59:6,7,10,13,16,20
59:21 70:8 71:4
74:11,15 75:11,14
79:7,17,19,20 80:7
80:17 84:22 85:7,14
85:22 86:12,15 87:19
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Page 47
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recalling
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recalls
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receipt
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receive
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received
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46:13,25 51:4 62:18
75:5 76:13,18 83:24
84:14,17 187:21,22
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receiving
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recent
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recently
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154:6 157:20 158:10
158:11 193:9 194:16
recommendation
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146:12
recommendations
122:21 124:3 133:12
133:18 162:23
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recommended
42:15 133:14
recommending
209:16 223:21
reconstruct
179:6
reconvene
102:5
record
7:1 8:22 17:25 40:9
49:15 66:19 90:7,15
98:22 99:2 123:18
140:23 146:21 147:8
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224:12,14,25
recorded
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43:8,9,11 44:17 80:20
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125:4 179:7
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50:18,23 51:1 56:8
57:16 60:14,16
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152:4 222:25
redlined
151:9 157:20 158:25
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redlining
164:16
reduce
122:21 124:4 125:18
redundant
196:1
refer
64:2 102:13
reference
97:4 110:8,9 117:2
132:7,8,9 166:10
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referenced
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references
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referred
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96:21
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74:4
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42:23 61:6 68:4
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regarding
45:19 60:20 175:15
regular
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141:19
relate
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related
12:12 76:20,25 114:1
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15:7
relationship
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relevance
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138:11 139:21 214:4
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relinquished
36:22
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remember
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51:22 53:1,1,20
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remembrance
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reminding
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65:18,20 99:23 102:4
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reported
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reporting
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Page 48
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reports
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represent
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representatives
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represented
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reserve
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reserved
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18:13
resolution
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42:13 43:24 59:3
1-800-325-3376
73:23 74:10,11 88:8

88:10,10 93:21,24
94:3,13,18 97:11,23
98:14 105:22 106:5
107:5 117:15 137:13
148:9,18 149:17
150:10,20 151:9
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157:21 158:7 159:1
160:9,12,16,23,25
161:2,3,25 162:2,4
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164:15 165:23
170:16,19 171:25
173:5 174:15 179:14
180:9,16 208:18
209:15 210:14 221:4
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114:12 116:16
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72:14
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139:12 191:2
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125:19 149:16 173:2
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9:5 11:25 14:22,24
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137:23 141:23
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141:22
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48:9 57:19
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56:25 57:1
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132:10
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125:15 226:15
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90:18
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14:22
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217:23
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209:5,11 210:11,16
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212:25 217:20
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51:20 52:10 84:19
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16:11,24 23:13 36:6
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revealing
16:14 35:23 53:17
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reveals
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33:21 130:9 131:3
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130:23 131:14,19,23
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131:11 132:23
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166:11 175:12
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179:14 180:9
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102:22
RE-EXAMINATION
4:20 220:25
Richard
4:5 6:7
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186:22
right
10:15 12:8 16:8 26:2
30:23 34:13,23 38:24
46:17 55:14 57:18
61:4 63:24 68:21
75:21 77:23 78:25
80:1,1 90:8 94:21
95:17,24 101:15
103:5,20,24 104:18
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118:12,16 121:9,14
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Page 49
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211:8,9,20,25 212:15
212:21 213:3,7 216:3
216:16 219:8 220:4
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rights
2:15 212:14,23
RILEY
3:20
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39:5
risk
61:12 209:25 210:3,4
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Robinson
3:14
role
14:21,25 23:5 28:25
163:19
room
2:18 4:4 31:19 78:20
86:9 206:19 211:21
routine
112:3
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2:8 55:12
rule
92:21 93:2 137:25
174:22
rules
6:5 18:15,21,25 58:10
83:10 92:14 93:3
170:5 191:18 194:22
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1-800-325-3376
142:7,7 143:15 144:8

run
144:16 145:1 209:18
61:16
same
runway
84:7 100:21 109:14
141:8
117:18 139:4 140:25
rwilson@cravath.co...
141:8 154:1 158:20
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sat
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106:22 192:1
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181:17
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119:3,22 120:1 121:19
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10:13 13:17 18:20,23
182:22
34:21 37:6 42:18,24 save
44:13 58:7 60:12
125:18 134:20
64:7 68:3 75:25 76:2 saved
76:4 79:24 85:1,8,12 127:21
85:15,20 87:4 93:18 saw
97:7 103:9 114:5
75:6 116:3 153:25
118:6 119:13 120:17
157:12 208:22,23
121:10 122:3 137:10
209:1
139:17 142:15,16,18 say
142:20 148:20,20
8:25 16:25 21:9,17
149:14 155:15 157:2
22:25 34:3 38:22
157:9 162:12 170:4
40:19 43:13 46:1
173:3,9,17 175:4,5
52:20 54:20 62:4
177:14 178:6 179:21
67:18,20 74:10 79:18
181:10 182:5,24
86:1 89:9 90:3 91:18
187:12 188:6 190:5
93:22 97:3 99:17
190:17,18,22 191:4
101:11 102:12 118:8
193:9 194:1,16
119:10 128:20
195:15 197:19
132:22 136:20 137:1
200:22 201:1 202:12
138:12 143:23 149:3
202:14,22 205:9
151:1 154:18 156:5
209:22 225:6 226:11
161:8,19,23 163:2,9
226:11,15
168:19 169:25
SAITH
178:25 198:6,6 200:1
225:4
200:8 204:6,21,22,23
salaries
214:21 217:24
117:16 134:24 146:8
saying
salary
21:15 28:22 29:3,16
117:10 136:12 137:3,6
31:18 32:4 33:4,13
138:8,25 139:1,13,19
33:16 42:10,22 44:9
60:20,25 61:5 68:1,5

79:18,24 80:8,17
87:20 120:24 121:5
123:3 126:11 138:14
138:16,20 148:16
154:7,13 158:4 161:4
176:1,18 186:14
187:12 197:15
199:24 204:25
209:24 214:10,25
222:17
says
43:19,19 58:5 74:12
82:14 110:9 119:1,9
121:17 126:23 130:5
130:8 132:21,21,22
149:10,10 153:8
169:10 171:10
187:14 198:19
200:10 217:3
scale
140:22 141:2
scales
114:13 136:20
scenario
16:21 17:4
scenarios
30:22 62:5
schedule
56:1,4,17,24 57:1,8
184:14
scheduled
189:1 201:4 203:6
school
7:9,11
school's
175:15
scope
55:16 138:4,18 214:11
second
7:13 8:11 16:21 37:15
48:19 60:6 116:6
123:2 137:17 155:7,8
188:9 221:12
seconds
39:23


Page 50
secretary
84:9 131:9
secure
72:12
security
72:15,19,23 73:7
77:11 129:2 185:13
186:5 187:25
see
16:21 18:22 22:18
30:6 43:4 50:17,20
54:11 55:11 67:9
80:19,21 90:1 97:6
106:12 118:25 166:9
174:8 214:12
seeing
23:17 29:12 122:6
seek
66:16,22
seeking
20:23 31:10 66:2,6,10
68:11 209:23
seem
151:24 217:14
seemed
67:24 184:15
seemingly
204:16
seems
56:18 156:4 223:7
seen
13:3 41:18 52:8
147:15,17 153:21,24
164:5 208:23
SEIBELS
1:19
selected
11:3
selective
61:17
self-interest
204:17
send
84:8 220:4
senders
205:9
1-800-325-3376
sensationalized
112:20
sense
154:14 171:21 212:10
217:8
sent
42:11 63:3 83:21,23
176:3 205:13 206:21
207:4
sentence
106:8 127:2,4 187:24
188:8,9
sentiment
116:20 117:7
separate
38:6 171:20 212:9
separated
88:24 205:19
separation
137:20 205:16
sequence
147:11,12,15,17
series
5:18
serve
107:11
service
88:1 104:20 105:5
services
27:1,4 79:9 88:6 92:18
172:18 208:5 221:9
session
80:10 81:1 159:17,19
159:21 162:8 173:7
174:17,19 189:1
201:17
sessions
165:18
set
114:13 117:15 137:13
204:3
sets
10:21 133:16
setting
119:11,14
settlement
5:22 79:14 80:5

188:14 190:25 201:5
203:7 207:8 211:3
212:8
settles
224:4
seven
32:19 33:1 203:20
seventy-five
115:13 117:9 137:7
seven-hour
137:25
several
13:18 28:24 31:24
41:15 43:21 91:8
96:15,21 106:21
142:17 149:11
173:13 179:3 198:8
198:21 201:11 203:4
severance
210:20
Sewell
1:24 5:3,5,7,17,21
6:10,14,23 7:2 16:14
16:17,20,22,23 17:5
17:6 30:2 39:18
42:14 45:9 50:4
64:24 71:10,19,20
80:12 81:2,7 87:21
102:13 108:22
110:10 111:4 115:2,5
122:19 125:22
126:23 137:22
139:24 147:14 155:7
156:25 157:2,10
158:6 174:10 183:6
188:10,16,23 197:3
201:3,9,11,19,24
202:25 203:5
Sewell's
16:19 22:13 30:2
63:15 137:17 201:13
sewer
13:22 96:14,21
shall
74:13 106:9
share
86:20 89:25
shared
128:20
Shawnna
8:17
she
14:14,25 15:6 52:19
52:20,22,24,25 53:1
53:2,2 72:15,17 75:1
84:10 100:22
sheriff's
102:3
she's
14:17 206:19
shift
44:1 149:19
shocked
203:4
short
40:3 49:7 64:12 94:25
99:21 146:18 204:8
220:20
shortcut
46:8
Shorthand
6:2
should
27:23 28:5,13 38:11
60:23 61:13 70:19
78:20 90:3 116:14,14
164:16 178:23
195:19
shouldn't
78:5 89:2 196:5
show
27:20 50:7 71:23
113:1 114:22 122:16
152:24 195:14
216:20
shown
27:20
sick
128:24 217:20 218:17
219:2
side


Page 51
28:15
sign
224:25 225:1
signed
137:20
significant
80:11 81:1 201:17
significantly
206:25
signify
196:8
similar
45:16 93:7 108:21
134:11,25 136:12
143:16 145:9 196:11
201:6
similarly
136:9,9 143:15
simple
104:7 192:8,10
simply
27:20 142:5 160:3
172:20 179:11
184:12 190:11
since
16:12,18 133:20
137:25 171:4 192:9
single
71:13 74:8 131:13
single-page
71:18
sinister
142:2
sir
24:22 26:5
sit
174:1
sites
116:2
sitting
52:1 84:18 119:18
143:25 167:24 179:7
202:17 206:19
situated
111:12,19
situation
1-800-325-3376
96:4 104:12 166:22

six
50:18,24 53:14 54:15
55:10 58:22 59:2,10
59:16,17,25 60:8,13
60:13,17,21 61:6,9
61:24 62:1 84:3
133:15 167:19,21
180:25 181:10 201:7
Sixth
3:15
size
125:8
sized
136:9,10 143:16
skill
133:16
sleep
85:21 86:1
slowly
24:12
Smith
3:11 4:19 8:17 16:1,6
16:22 17:1,6,22 18:6
18:22 19:11,14 20:13
20:16,18 21:1,8 22:8
22:10 23:7 25:5,18
25:19 26:20 28:9
29:2,19 30:5,10,18
34:7,19,23 36:2,9,14
37:2,7,14,18,22 38:2
38:21,25 39:23 40:1
40:19,21 41:11 45:6
45:21,25 46:5,17
47:2,5,9 48:3,8,19,24
49:15 53:24 54:9,17
55:2,5,12 56:20
57:10,22 58:2 60:1,5
60:11 61:1,8 62:2
63:12 64:2,9,14,17
65:11,15 66:9,18
67:2,17,22 68:6,9,20
69:1,5,7 70:3,23
75:18,24 78:3,7,12
82:8 83:16 84:1 85:6
85:10 90:3 94:17,21
218:1,4,10,15,23
95:2,6,10,15,20,24
220:8,11,17,22 221:2
97:24 101:5,12,19,21
221:11,14,20,23
102:7,10 103:1,9,11
222:2,6 223:7,11,14
103:21 104:16
223:17 224:2,8,14
105:13,16,21 108:12
108:21 109:1 110:2,7 Smith's
110:22 111:5 112:9
25:12,16 91:8
113:7,15 114:8,22,24 so
115:5,19,22 116:1
8:4 10:1 16:15 18:15
118:5,16,21,22
18:23 19:14 20:3
119:13 120:14,19
21:12,22 27:19 29:25
121:2,6,12,16 122:3
29:25 30:18 33:19
122:16,23 123:6,11
36:6 38:6,9 39:4,9
123:15,21 124:23
41:2 43:25 44:10,11
126:6,17 128:14,19
44:15 45:13,17 46:3
129:22 132:25 133:9
51:7 54:6 55:8,19
133:22 135:11,22
56:2,3,7,9,17 60:19
136:4 138:12,15,24
60:23 61:10,16,18,21
139:23 140:5,8,10,15
62:9,9,11 63:24 64:4
142:4,12,14,18,21
65:5,17 67:16 68:4
143:8 144:14,22
68:16 73:9 75:4,23
145:1,6 146:14,17,20
78:19,20 82:13 83:11
147:2,4,10,14,25
83:14,18 84:14 86:22
151:24 152:3,18,24
88:12 90:6 92:23
153:3,10,18 154:16
94:6 95:24 98:7
157:8,14,16,19 158:3
102:18 105:5,12
159:24 160:6 163:24
108:1,23 109:10
164:6,13 168:18,24
110:1 111:19 112:9
174:12 176:7,10,15
112:15 116:18 118:2
177:16 178:21
119:20 120:11
179:19,25 180:15
121:23 122:9 123:8
182:4,8,18 183:9
123:25 125:2,24
185:12,17,22 186:1
126:19 130:12,12
186:23,25 187:6,7
131:1 132:15 133:6
192:5,16 193:3,5
133:20 135:4 136:18
194:6,11 195:8,12,16
137:6 138:1 139:15
195:19,23 196:3,9,13
140:8,11,12,13
196:17,20,25 197:3
141:22 142:1 144:5,7
200:8 202:10,14,22
145:25 148:3 149:18
203:15,19,24 204:2,5
152:17,20 153:10
204:10 205:6 207:2
154:16 156:4 158:3
213:14,18,23 214:1,7
158:22,23,23 159:19
214:10,17,22,25
159:19 160:6,13
215:3,9,12,14,19,22
161:17 163:6,23
216:1,8,11,15,18
167:4 168:14 170:15
217:1,5,10,13,17
171:13 175:23,25


Page 52
177:7 178:2,15
179:21,22 180:20
182:18 183:17,23
185:18 188:8 193:14
193:20,20 194:12
197:20 198:2 205:25
206:20 208:10,20
209:13 210:14 211:1
211:4,10 213:14
214:8 220:13 221:20
224:5
Social
129:2
sole
169:16
solely
45:19 168:5
some
7:3 18:4 28:12 41:8
45:16 46:13 51:2
55:13 67:23 71:1
76:22 78:22 80:15
81:6 83:2 88:15
89:11 97:2 107:22
109:5 110:8 111:2
119:11 132:5 133:17
155:16 160:8 161:5
161:13 173:21
179:15 180:7 184:19
186:20 188:7 190:14
191:2 200:5 201:22
211:7,7 212:1 213:13
215:17,25 217:8,22
somebody
14:11 123:13
somehow
42:15
someone
35:8 53:20 111:3
125:16 132:5 185:6
185:10 187:5
something
16:24 19:12 30:2,20
32:5 52:21 65:9
66:13 67:3 78:16
80:20 87:24 89:4
1-800-325-3376
90:11 93:2 111:2

112:19 113:23
115:13 117:9 120:12
142:2 148:16 153:21
154:8,24 166:20
167:15 173:20 179:9
185:25 189:22 190:1
190:7 194:21 202:20
208:25 223:18
something's
131:4
Sometime
98:17
sometimes
184:24 221:15
somewhere
17:24 29:10,11 32:13
32:15 52:2,4 111:11
157:13
soon
24:7
sorry
17:18 25:2 30:9 38:16
47:4,7 48:9,19,21
56:20 60:1,5 65:19
68:7,8 69:1 85:6
97:15 106:4 128:14
138:23 155:23 157:3
157:11 158:1 176:15
177:1,13 178:19
189:21 200:21 224:8
sort
18:17 46:13 113:4
146:15 166:6 212:1
sought
30:19,25 53:18
sounds
44:20 60:24 65:16
173:19 216:10
222:24
source
73:21
SOUTHERN
1:3
speak
28:6,13,20
speaker
80:22 81:12 221:10
222:3
speaking
17:15 28:1 35:23
speaks
128:1
special
92:9
specialized
9:1
specific
109:20 113:6 192:23
specifically
58:4 174:24
specifies
169:6
speculate
97:13 98:5,5 135:16
185:9
speculation
97:25 98:10
speed
138:5 204:23,24
spend
220:13
spent
7:12
Sperber
2:17
spoke
187:24 188:5 198:21
199:6
spoken
32:11
spun
117:24
staff
128:24 187:19 188:20
standard
140:16
standoff
112:12
start
7:6 15:22 24:11 68:1
102:11 188:9 222:7
started
15:12 42:9 46:22 91:7
91:12 145:21 180:19
starting
11:24 40:25 188:8
starts
73:15
state
6:3,25 152:1 167:1
168:11 209:9 226:3
stated
79:10 127:17 128:12
statement
33:17 107:23 109:7,9
119:4 121:14 129:4,7
130:8,20 158:5
175:16 177:23 178:8
190:17,19,19 192:21
193:22,24 201:1
203:11,12
statements
29:12 30:13,14,17
31:25 148:2 172:24
175:18 192:17
States
1:1,7 2:14 9:6 101:2,3
134:13 136:16
stating
32:17,21
statutory
166:25
stay
11:19 101:18
stayed
28:18
stenotype
226:7
Stephens
24:12,25 25:5,7 80:14
81:4 82:7,15 189:5
201:21
stepped
44:7 149:25
stepping
72:11
steps


Page 53
10:7 24:19
still
54:6 66:21 67:14
72:25 86:16 113:4
126:1 128:3 154:15
200:25 205:22 206:1
206:4,14
stipulate
18:9
stipulation
6:6 216:22,24
stipulations
6:19 18:20,23,25 22:3
22:18
stop
80:13 81:3 113:13
201:4,14,20 216:16
STOPPED
44:17 81:11 222:14
story
113:13 114:1
straight
196:20,23
strategies
45:23
strategy
13:14 15:19 16:4
45:11 70:11
Strickland
7:19,20 9:18,20 10:5
Strickland's
10:17
strike
75:23 78:17 107:5
159:19
struck
167:18 207:14
structure
13:22 42:12 151:16
160:20 161:18,25
164:23
struggling
30:8
study
171:8
stuff
1-800-325-3376
184:3
stupid
196:3
style
109:25 204:14
subdivision
134:5
subject
8:19 10:10,11 12:13
31:23 35:24 36:5,7
45:15 53:13,17 54:5
54:15 55:10 57:5
58:8 60:8 66:24 72:5
78:18 122:20 123:4
124:3 125:21 126:12
126:13 140:5 148:7
148:12 150:2 158:21
162:8 190:12 199:18
submitted
12:24 13:8 159:8
163:17
subpoena
56:14
subsequent
61:25
substance
20:15,22 21:7 33:14
33:17 34:10,16,18
46:15 160:3 193:25
substantially
136:24 175:11
substantive
193:11
succinctly
19:5
such
16:11 93:5 98:10
116:5,6 125:2 189:18
197:16 199:14
sufficient
55:23
suggest
101:8 142:1
suggested
129:16
suggestion
75:15
suggests
41:17 107:9 169:21
summarize
144:8 182:2
summarized
181:24 182:5
summary
182:7
summoned
181:9
supervise
10:1 169:16,20 199:13
supervising
12:10 13:13 14:25
169:22 170:1
supervision
15:9 125:9
supervisor
9:24
suppose
21:8 178:4 186:7
supposed
198:11
sure
19:8,11,25 24:15
48:10 57:22 61:5
65:6 82:24 83:2
87:14 90:2 91:13
94:24 97:18 99:25,25
109:21 110:2 111:11
113:7 124:20 128:15
138:11 146:16
158:18 178:21 181:2
203:16 204:5 205:11
216:25 221:22
suspect
118:2 171:4 224:6,9
suspended
91:7
SWAINE
2:7
swear
12:5 119:19
sworn
6:15
system
103:15 141:2 143:2
systems
143:3,6,7
T
take
10:8 17:10 24:19 31:2
39:25 40:1 50:21,22
51:14 63:24 88:6
89:11 101:8 119:22
119:25 120:2 146:14
154:5 155:7,8 171:15
195:20,21 203:15
223:5
taken
2:1 73:13 84:10 88:8,8
183:24 206:9 208:15
208:16 226:6
takes
208:5 212:24
taking
101:22
talk
49:1,4 63:15 94:22
96:4 98:23 101:6,9
138:9 191:20 197:8
199:12 200:3
talked
20:18 44:5 148:6
149:23 177:6 182:12
197:5 207:12 217:6
223:12
talking
29:21 42:5 93:17
95:16,23 96:10 103:8
109:17 110:20 121:5
121:6 136:2 162:11
174:4 176:19,20
177:4 223:14
talks
110:12
tape
221:15,19
tax
13:25 103:17,17


Page 54
taxes
129:2
Taylor
72:15,17 75:1 77:13
team
32:9
Ted
35:7 205:10 206:8
tedious
138:20
telephone
2:16,17 17:19
tell
14:15 15:6 18:3 31:15
51:15 62:20,23 63:9
64:25 65:10 70:19
75:2 77:2,7,10 82:6
88:19 89:19 96:12
100:14 108:7 149:13
150:17 160:2 173:8
174:20 175:1 185:10
221:9
telling
33:6 41:21 84:22
86:12 93:1,10 96:1
96:18 183:1
tells
96:3
temporal
91:10 154:2
ten
139:2
tended
8:23
tenure
132:4
ten-step
137:14 141:1
term
11:18 28:10 104:9
106:20 210:23
terminate
88:10 184:17 195:22
208:18
terminated
88:16 138:10 173:23
1-800-325-3376
174:5 207:3 209:3,16

133:4,4 146:17,20
termination
148:4 183:9 204:7
220:22 222:2,6
98:3
224:21,23 225:2
terms
Thanks
103:22 124:5 198:18
102:7 126:22
207:8,17,19
that
testified
6:4 7:4 8:9,11,12,13
6:16 25:23 84:16
8:22 9:10 10:4,16,21
98:21 155:25 182:3
10:22,25 11:8,16,17
testify
11:19,19 12:5,10,18
55:20
12:22,23,25 13:3,7
testifying
14:4,23 15:9,11,12
24:13 82:8
15:15,23,24 16:3,5
testimony
16:10,23 17:7,10,13
15:4,4 23:22,25 24:3,8
17:14,20,20,21,22,23
24:24 25:15,25 26:18
18:1,4,7,9,17,21,22
29:1 37:25 40:22
18:24 19:6,8,18,19
56:8 98:20 100:2
20:4,20 21:9,10,12
102:14 107:21 144:7
21:16,20 22:1,6 23:1
158:9 159:20 160:13
23:5,9,19,20 24:6,23
165:21 181:13,22,23
24:24 25:1,14,18,20
181:23 182:3,6,19
25:22 26:6,9,11,18
205:7 206:20 207:13
27:9 28:8,11,17,23
209:13,20,21 226:10
28:24 29:1,2,3,11,22
text
30:3,12,19,20,20,22
51:2
30:22 31:16,20,25
than
32:15,17,19,22 33:4
18:10 19:1 21:11 24:9
33:7,7,8,11,13,14,16
48:24 51:23 56:7
33:17 34:11 35:5,8
63:19 69:15,20 76:6
35:11,17,19 36:4,5
91:15 92:12 93:6
36:18 37:6,6,8,10,16
95:17 111:3 116:18
37:23 38:5,6,10,15
130:16 136:24
38:17,19 39:1,6,14
140:21 142:22,23
40:9,10,13,16,22,22
143:8 145:23 151:24
41:6,14,15,17,22,23
154:25 163:19
41:23,23,24 42:1,2,3
164:18,21 166:12
42:3,4,8,10,10,11,13
170:3 176:17 180:18
42:17,18,20,22,23
186:12 192:17
43:2,16,23,25 44:7,9
199:24 205:11 211:1
44:18,20 45:2,7,9,12
211:10 212:24
45:14,19,22 46:1,6
thank
46:18,22 47:12 48:1
17:17 19:13 41:11
48:7,12,17,20 50:21
54:12 55:6 58:17
50:22 51:4,9,21
100:24 102:10 110:6
52:11,12,16,16 53:5
113:14 115:4 118:20
53:6,12,23,24 54:2
54:14,17,21,24,24
55:5,15,17,17,22,25
56:9,10,13,16,24,24
57:1,4,7,7,11,11,12
57:14,15,17,22,23,24
57:25 58:7,12,12,24
59:20,23 60:2,14,17
60:24 61:14,15,19,20
61:22,23 62:3,4,8,9
62:10,20,23 63:1,9
63:13,20 64:4,7,22
64:25,25 65:8,9,22
66:1,3,5,6,15,19,20
66:23 67:3,6,22 68:2
68:3,14 69:11,20
70:4,6,8,16,19 71:4
71:12,25 72:8 73:4
74:2,2,4,4,7,13,15,15
74:22 75:3,14,15
76:19,23,24 78:6,15
78:17,18,21,23 79:3
79:4,4,9,10,16,18,20
79:24,25 80:3,8,8,17
80:20 81:7,8,12,18
81:23 82:2,6,10,14
82:19,19 83:4,6,21
84:5,7,16,17,20,24
85:2,14,15,19,22,24
86:4,13,15,18 87:4,6
87:14,17 88:3,4,7,9
88:18 89:5,7,8,9,12
89:16,19,20 90:3,6
90:10,11,17,21,24
91:4,4,6 92:6,10,15
92:17 93:2,6,11,16
93:20 94:1,3,14,16
94:18 95:3,6,16,18
96:8,13,13,14,15,19
96:19,21,24 97:4,5,6
97:7,7,12,17 98:11
98:15,21,23 99:7,7
99:17,19 100:2,15
101:7,12,13,20,23
102:13,20,21,23
103:4,24 104:9,11,13


Page 55
104:18,21,22 105:7,8
105:12,13,16,22
106:1,4,10,13,22,24
107:5,9,10,19,22,24
107:25 108:3,15
109:5 110:24 111:12
111:15,20 112:1,11
112:12,17,19,21
113:2,19 114:11,12
114:16,18 116:3,9,13
116:16,22 117:6,14
117:15,18 118:25
119:1,4,4,8,9,10,14
119:17,21,22,24,25
120:2,3,4,10,12,21
120:24 121:2,3,17,19
121:19,20 122:24
123:5,19,22 124:8
125:1,7,10,13,23,24
125:25,25 126:4,15
126:25 127:1,2,11
128:1,9,12,15,15,16
128:22 129:4,4,11
130:1,6,6,8,13,14,19
130:19,20,22,23
131:10,10,14,19,22
131:23,24,24 132:2,3
132:4,5,7,8,10,11,16
132:25 133:2,6,14,18
134:9,9,11,15,16,18
134:21 135:2,13,13
135:19 136:14,16,17
136:21 137:13,18,21
138:1,13 139:9,13,13
140:22,23 141:3,3,5
141:6,10,11,25 142:5
142:6,6 143:14,22,23
143:24 145:5,7,7,15
146:1,22 147:15
148:1,2,12,13,25
149:7,16,18,25 150:2
150:3,5,7,23 151:1
151:13,14,19 152:2,5
152:9,9 153:1,8,19
153:21,21,22 154:8,9
154:20,21,21,22,23
1-800-325-3376
197:10,10,16,19,20
138:11 143:17
154:24 155:8,9,12,15
197:22,22,23 198:2,2
144:20 145:6 146:13
155:18 156:5,18,25
198:10,13,18 199:1,4
147:23 148:6,19,19
157:8,12 158:9,10,12
199:5,11,12 200:1,14
148:20,23,25 150:21
158:21,23 159:7,7,8
200:16,17,18 201:3,7
153:20 156:1,24
159:20,21,24,24
201:24,24 202:3,6,20
157:4 158:8,14,22
160:14,14,17 161:4,6
202:23 203:1,2,4,10
170:25 174:4 175:22
161:8 162:7,15,16,17
203:21 204:1,18,19
176:24 177:25 178:5
162:19,22,22,23,25
205:9,9,12,13,15,15
178:16,17 179:20,23
163:16,17,20,21
206:7,10,11,18 207:7
181:5,12 183:16
164:9,18,18,19,20,21
207:12,14,22 208:3,4
185:8 186:21 189:19
164:25 165:1,8,10,10
208:7,9,15,19,24
190:4 193:13 194:6
165:11 166:2,6,9,15
209:6,7,8,9,12,13,16
195:3 196:12,12,13
167:4,19,22,23 168:3
209:17,20,24,25
202:20 204:5 210:22
168:7,8,9,11,12,13
210:12,14,15,16,17
210:23 215:20 218:6
168:14,20,24 169:2,6
210:17,21 211:8,10
218:7,8 222:5,16
169:10,17,18,21,21
211:11,14,20,20
224:11,20
170:5,10,14,16,21,22
212:1,4,14,18,22
the
170:22,24 171:4,8,8
213:1,6,7 214:14,21
171:11,13 172:5,21
1:1,2 2:6 3:2,9 6:2,4,5
215:9,9,17,17 216:2
173:6,9,9,15,20,25
6:7,8,10,11,18,25 7:8
216:6,23,23,24 217:7
174:1,2,6,7,9,16,18
7:10,11,11,12,13,17
217:13,15,19,23
174:18,25 175:2,9,13
7:17,23 8:2,18,23 9:4
218:3,7,8,8,17,18
175:16,20,23 176:2,7
9:6,10,12,23 10:1,6,7
219:10,11,17,21,23
176:10,11 177:5,24
10:7,8,10,10,21,21
220:1,7 221:3,3,4,12
177:24,25 178:3,5,11
10:24 11:3,5,6,7,9,11
221:16,23 222:11,12
178:14 179:1,2,19,21
11:13,15,18,18,20,21
222:14,18,19,20
179:22,25 180:6,6,13
11:24,24,25 12:7,7
223:4,6,10,21,24
181:3,8,9,10,13,15
12:10,10,13,15,15,23
224:1,3,4,12 226:5,9
181:15,21 182:8,9,12
13:5,8,8,10,13,16,18
226:12,16
182:13,20,21 183:3,3
13:20,21,21,22,23,24
that's
183:10,11,14,15
13:24,25 14:1,3,4,4,5
184:1,3,10,13,15,16
14:7,8,18,25,25 15:7
9:1 10:15 12:8 19:7,9
184:17,19 185:6
15:8,11,19,19,20,22
21:14 25:2 38:6
186:1,5,8,9,10,12,14
15:23,23,25 16:1,1,2
39:11 41:9 49:13
186:15 187:1,4,5,8,8
16:6,12,18,21 17:4,8
54:6 55:14 56:6,18
187:11,20 188:1,23
17:9,19,21,23,24
58:10 62:3,9 64:21
188:24 189:3,13,16
18:2,6,8,9,11,14,19
65:13 66:17 68:19
189:16,18,22,24
18:21,25 19:4,9,16
70:15,21,22 71:16
190:7,8,9,9,12,14,14
19:18,20,23 20:7,8
75:2 81:13 95:20,22
190:15,15,22,24
20:15,15,17,20,22,22
101:10 103:6 104:12
191:2,4,7,8,10,12,13
21:5,5,6,9,10,11,18
105:17 106:12 108:5
191:16 192:2,16,17
21:18,19,22,23 22:1
110:21 113:4 116:24
192:18 193:3,24
22:3,9,12,12,15,17
117:20 121:4 125:3
194:1,2,4,14,18,21
22:18,21,22,23 23:1
125:22 126:17 127:8
194:22,23 195:1,6
23:1,7,11,14,14,14
128:15 130:22,25
196:5,7,8 197:4,5,7,9
23:17,21,24 24:2,3,7
131:17 133:25

Page 56
24:11,13,15,16,19,20
24:23,23 25:23 26:1
26:3,7,11,12,21,22
26:24 27:3,3,4,6,8,10
27:11,13,13,15,24
28:1,6,9,10,15,22,23
28:25 29:4,6,9,14,20
29:21,22 30:5,21
31:5,5,8,13,23 32:1,5
32:6,13,16,17,21,24
33:6,6,7,14,15,19,20
33:24,25 34:5,9,16
34:17,18,21 35:5,8
35:10,20,24,24,24,25
36:5,7,8,11,12,13,18
36:19,19,21,24,24
37:1,7,12,13,18,24
38:2,7,8,9,15,15,16
39:4,7,9,10,10,11,15
39:19 40:6,8,9,10,23
41:2,3,3,4,6,7,9,14
41:14,16,17,17,18,20
41:21,24,25 42:3,4,5
42:9,10,11,12,16,18
42:22,23,25 43:8,12
43:17,19,20,21,25
44:2,12,14,15,16
45:5,11,12,14,15,15
46:1,14,15,22,23
47:4,13 48:12,22,25
49:1,6,10,11,15,15
49:18,18 50:18,21,22
50:23 51:1,4,5,5,6,14
51:15,16,24 52:7,8
52:18,22,24 53:3,3,4
53:4,9,10,10,13,16
54:4,5,12,12,15,19
54:19,20 55:2,3,9,13
55:16,16,17,18,19,20
55:21,24,25 56:3,15
56:16,17,18,22,23,24
56:25 57:2,3,5,11,12
57:13,15,21,23 58:1
58:2,4,6,8,10,11,13
58:14,19,20,22 59:3
59:9,19 60:3,8,11,12
1-800-325-3376
60:15,15 61:2,12,13
61:16,17,18,19,22
62:6,7,19 63:2,7,10
63:12,16,18,18,19,20
63:21 64:8,14,16,18
64:18,19,21,25 65:3
65:8,12,20,21,24,25
66:1,7,9,15,19,19,20
66:21,23 67:3,6,7,10
67:11,18 68:10,11,15
68:16,17,24 69:1,4,8
69:8,11,15,15,15,24
70:1,3,8,9,14 71:5,5
72:5,12,12,13,16,19
72:21 73:1,2,8,10,23
74:9,11,13,13,18,19
74:22,23 75:1,9,12
75:20 76:2,8,13,18
76:20,24,25 77:6,14
77:21 78:7,12,13
79:3,5,7,12,13,13
80:1,2,3,4,4,9,20,21
80:24,25 81:8,9,9,10
81:14,16 82:16,19,24
83:10,20,21,23,23,24
84:1,2,4,5,6,7,8,16
84:22,23,24 85:3,6,8
85:15,15,16,19,25,25
85:25 86:2,9,9,12,16
86:20,23,24 87:1,3,5
87:5,7,15,18,20 88:5
88:11,13,15,25 89:1
89:8,16 90:3,4,7,10
90:18,21 91:2,3,5,13
91:13,14,19,20,23,24
92:1,2,10,14,17,18
92:24 93:2,2,3,5,10
93:13,20,21,23 94:13
95:3,4,6,9,15,20,22
95:25 96:1,6,6,9,12
96:13,14,18,20,21,21
97:3,4,9,10,11,20,21
97:22 98:2,13,14,15
98:17,22 99:1,2,2,6,9
99:20,23,23 100:3,7
100:21,25 101:1,3,14
102:3,11,24 103:3,3
103:7,7,10,11,14,15
103:15,16,19,22,22
103:23,23,25 104:1,1
104:11,13,14,14,17
104:20 105:6,14,15
105:21 106:1,2,5,6,8
106:8,8,9,13,15,16
106:20,20,23 107:4,6
107:6,7,7,9,11,14,23
107:25 108:7,8,18
109:5,8,9,10,11,16
109:18,18,19,24,25
109:25 110:2,3,8,12
110:17 111:6,9,21,24
112:3,4,6,7,7,9,11,21
113:10,11,13,16,23
114:11,12,13,13,25
115:2,6,10,11,15,17
115:24 116:7,8,11,14
117:4,6,7,14,14,16
117:16,17,18,18,19
117:20 118:25 119:2
119:18,20,21 120:5
120:14 121:7,8,25,25
122:1,5,10 123:4,7
123:13,18,22 124:3,5
124:5,9,17,17,18,22
124:23 125:1,2,5,6,7
125:8,14,15,16,17,18
125:20,21,21,23
126:4,5,6,11,13,14
127:4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9
127:12,13,17,18,18
127:19,22,23,24,24
128:1,3,5,19,19
129:7,8,9,11,17,21
129:22 130:2,7,9,11
130:13,15,19,21,22
130:23,24 131:3,7,9
131:9,11,17,20,21,22
131:25,25 132:3,7,9
132:9,15,16,18,20,21
132:24 133:1,3,6,7,9
133:10,14,22 134:2,3
134:3,9,12,15,19,19
134:20,24 135:12,15
135:23 136:2,7,8,13
136:16,16,18,23
137:1,4,13,13,20,22
137:23,23,24,24
138:4,5,18,19,21
139:3,4,14,23,25
140:6,13,14,19,19,20
140:21,24,24,25
141:1,2,3,7,7,8,8,10
141:11,12,15,17,17
141:18,20,20,23,24
141:24,25 142:8,8,9
142:10,14 143:1,1,1
143:2,5,7,10,11,13
143:21,24 144:2,5,5
144:15,15 145:6,14
145:16,19,19,20,20
145:21 146:1,2,3,5
146:10,10,11,16,21
146:23 147:6,8,11,12
147:19,23 148:1,5,7
148:9,10,11,18,21,24
149:3,7,10,11,12,18
149:20 150:8,10,13
150:14,20 151:2,4,11
151:15,21 152:4,6,15
153:3,5,6,7,11,16,16
154:2,4,4,18,20
155:9,13,14,22,24,25
156:2,6,6,8,13,16,18
156:20,20 157:1,2,4
157:5,9,15,18,21,25
158:2,3,7,12,20,21
158:22,22,24 159:7,8
159:10,13,17,23
160:1,3,5,6,8,12,15
160:19,23,25 161:1,2
161:3,10,18,22,25
162:2,3,4,7,7,10,13
162:13 163:3,7,8,10
163:14,16,18,19,19
163:22,24,24 164:1,3
164:5,8,12,14,15,16
164:22,23,24 165:4,7
165:8,10,12,23 166:1


Page 57
166:2,2,8,10,11,12
166:14,15,16,18,19
166:19,22,22,23
167:1,2,3,6,7,10,10
167:13 168:2,3,4,4,6
168:8,8,9,12,13,19
168:20 169:2,2,6,10
169:14,15,15,16,19
169:23 170:4,5,5,7,8
170:12,12,13,16,18
170:18,20,22,24
171:1,2,5,9,11,12,15
171:16,16,18,25,25
172:1,2,3,4,6,6,9,10
172:11,13,16,16,17
172:23,25 173:2,3,3
173:4,5,8,12,13,14
173:16 174:5,12,13
174:13,14,18,18,19
175:7,9,9,10,12,15
175:16,19,22 176:1,2
176:5,10,21,21,21,22
176:23,23 177:1,2,3
177:5,6,10,12,14,23
177:24,24 178:2,7,8
178:9,9,22 179:8,12
179:13,14,18 180:1,1
180:1,2,6,9,15,16,18
180:22,24,24 181:7,7
181:14,19 182:1,7,9
182:12,13,21,25
183:1,2,3,10,11,11
183:17 184:6,8,11,15
184:16 185:2,3,13
186:2,3,11,12,16,18
186:19 187:4,8,9,14
187:17,18,19,21,22
187:23,23,24,25
188:3,3,4,4,5,8,8,9
188:11,12,13,16,19
188:20,21,24 189:2,4
189:4,6,8,12,15,16
189:16,17,19,23,24
189:25,25 190:1,2,6
190:6,10,11,12,13,13
190:14,22,23,23
1-800-325-3376
191:3,8,11,12,13,18
191:20,24 192:6,7,7
192:9,12,14,17,17,20
192:21,22 193:1,5,6
193:10,10,14,18,24
193:25 194:4,5,8,12
194:12,13,14,15,16
194:17,21,24 195:10
195:12,14 196:15,18
197:3,12,16,16,21
198:1,13,15,17,18,19
198:22,23 199:7,12
199:17,18,19,20,23
200:1,2,5,13,16,17
200:25 201:1,2,5,5,8
201:11,16,25 202:1,1
202:2,3,22,23,23
203:1,2,2,3,7,9,12,16
203:20,22 204:13,15
204:20,20 205:1,8,9
205:9,12,15,18,19,22
205:25 206:1,2,5,8,9
206:14,19,21,23,24
207:2,3,4,7,8,8,13,15
207:17,19,21,21
208:1,3,4,6,8,9,13,13
208:14,17,17 209:3,5
209:5,9,10,14,14,18
210:1,11,12,14,15,15
210:19 211:1,5,6,12
211:16,21 212:4,8,10
212:22 213:11,21,22
214:5,10,13 215:18
215:20 216:7,7,19,20
217:6,10,11,18 218:9
218:12,13,16,19,20
218:24 219:2,9,14,17
219:19,21,23 220:4,6
221:3,4,8,10,14,15
221:18,19 222:3,5,9
222:11,12,13,18,19
222:20 223:1,2,3,13
223:13,15,20,21,22
224:1,2,12,14,16,23
224:24,25 225:2,7
226:5,7,9,10,13,13
226:14,17,19
theory
their
77:25 78:2,3,8 79:3
9:22,24 10:2,11 24:8
182:8 205:15
36:16,22 84:12,15
there
116:15 117:15 119:3 6:6 8:8,10,10,23 10:19
121:18 140:3 141:19
10:20,20 11:2,4,6,17
158:7 166:17 167:7
13:17 18:4,4,20,24
189:7 205:19 206:24
19:6 20:25 21:3
them
27:24 28:4,11,17
8:15 22:23 32:12 48:1
32:5 41:15,22 45:13
52:18 63:9 66:15
49:17,20,24 50:3
68:18 69:4,19 70:7
51:2 52:22,24 54:18
70:19 77:10 93:1
54:22,23 61:24 62:11
96:15,18,22 97:2
66:22 69:11,14,19
113:25 121:1 134:1
75:11 81:25 83:3
170:17 175:7 178:16
84:8 88:7,9,24 89:4,7
186:21,24 187:1
89:10,22,24 90:17,23
188:1 190:24 194:9
90:24 95:2,16 97:8
194:10 198:7 214:2
98:20 99:16 100:2
224:5
101:8 102:2,19
themselves
104:22 106:14 107:4
107:16 108:13 110:8
132:18
110:9,25 111:11
then
113:22,23 114:14
7:10,12 9:13 10:13
116:2 117:22,22
16:9 17:2,9,11 20:19
118:25 119:1 120:6
21:5,8 30:19 35:8
123:24 126:1 131:11
38:4,6 41:7 44:2,6,8
131:18,22 132:4,6,11
54:3,3 57:24 58:18
132:12,13 133:20
61:13 62:12 63:17
134:7 136:15 140:22
66:20 67:19,20 78:24
141:6,12,14 142:21
91:7 94:22 95:12
142:22 144:1 146:3
97:25 118:12 119:7
150:7,12,22,23 151:6
126:10 127:20
151:8 158:5,18,23
149:20,24 150:6
160:18 161:13,19
156:23 162:17,18
162:16 165:17
174:5 175:5 178:23
166:15 167:20,20
181:8 192:25 195:23
170:11,11 175:5,13
197:15 198:12 200:6
175:16,22 176:13,16
207:17 208:14
178:1 179:1,1 180:7
215:24 217:7 220:4
180:8,9,12,20 183:18
223:22 224:13,17
185:14,20,22 186:13
Theo
187:3 191:18 193:18
8:16 9:13 12:4 35:7
194:23 195:11
205:10
199:15,16,22 200:20
Theodore
201:6 208:11,16,25
4:2


Page 58
211:6,11,13,23,24
58:15 78:13 100:21
221:3 222:10,17
128:9 180:13 202:22
therefore
216:19,20 224:24
57:12 60:23,23 153:5 things
therein
8:23 9:2 50:17 70:12
116:23 124:13
108:19
158:15 169:18 175:9
thereto
175:19,23 179:7
226:7
184:3 187:1 192:20
there's
196:11 208:8 209:9
8:22 20:2 38:22 40:17
213:2
45:13 50:18 54:1
think
61:14 82:12 95:18
10:13,20,23,24,25
119:7 120:9 121:16
13:17 17:8 18:14,17
128:6 132:8,8 142:2
21:15,19 27:9 35:19
151:22,25 153:7
37:4 38:6,15,17
170:10 186:9 195:11
39:10 41:6 43:23
203:21
44:4 45:1 47:3,8
these
49:9 51:7,24 52:5,5
40:25 56:2 57:16
53:16 54:17,19 60:17
61:16 63:13,14,22
63:22 65:13 66:12,25
64:3 100:11 120:20
71:15 72:25 73:4,9
127:24 131:9 147:19
73:10 74:4 78:4
147:20 151:16 152:7
82:13 83:9 84:16
171:22,24 192:3,13
85:2 86:15,22 87:12
195:24,25 196:23
88:11 89:8,9 92:9
214:2
93:12 97:8 98:2,15
they
99:10 100:10 101:25
9:18 29:8,8 32:7 38:4
103:9 104:7,8,13,23
39:12,15 40:13 41:6
105:8,12 106:20
41:13,18 45:10 59:23
108:1 114:7 116:22
60:12 63:21 66:6
119:17,17 121:2
69:25 70:8 80:3
123:16,19 125:24
81:16,21 82:3,4
127:16,17 128:1
84:12 92:16 96:16,22
132:6 133:25 137:8
115:20 127:8 133:19
138:6,17 144:12
141:9,22 166:18
145:23 146:13
167:11,14 186:16
147:16,22,23 148:3
188:1,25 189:3,6,8
149:16,22 150:21
190:24 198:6 199:2,4
151:22 158:16 161:8
209:15 217:14
161:12,15 163:6,6,14
218:24 219:1
163:23 168:12,13
they're
170:7,7 178:5,25
16:13 41:1 121:9,10
180:20 181:9 184:13
127:8 178:17 185:6
186:10,16 187:3
thing
192:25 193:22,23
17:21 18:17 38:6 40:8
1-800-325-3376
194:1,3,9 195:3,6
138:1,2,4,6 139:12
199:13 206:12
139:22 140:5 145:18
208:20,25 209:1,12
147:14,18,19,25
210:7 211:7 217:8,13
149:4,8,23 152:3
218:6,18 219:16
153:4,24,24,24
223:5,8,22
154:19,21 155:12
thinking
156:8,18,21 158:21
159:3,15 160:14,21
39:12,14 98:19 100:1
161:4,6,7,12,14,17
157:8 210:5,7
161:20,24 162:18
thinks
165:16,22 166:19,20
54:4,14
167:25 171:23,24
third
172:19,24 173:21
17:4 55:16
174:3,9,11 175:2
this
179:10,11 180:7
6:4 9:7,8 10:9 12:6,12
181:7 182:19 183:10
14:20 15:7 16:12,14
183:17 184:4,10,12
16:16,20 26:10 32:8
185:21 186:21 187:2
36:25 40:13,19 41:5
187:15 188:2 189:13
43:5,7,9,13,17 44:5
190:11 191:8 192:4,6
45:14 46:8,16 49:19
192:11 193:23
50:14 51:18 53:8,11
194:17 195:22
55:14,20 56:19,23
199:19,23 200:8
57:4,17,24 60:17
201:1,2 203:25
67:9,15 68:4 70:13
204:21 206:25 207:7
72:7,16 77:17 78:18
207:11,13 208:4,10
78:20 88:2 90:23
208:12 212:4 213:11
94:18 95:15 99:18
213:16 214:4,7,16
100:18 102:13,21
215:6,6,14,16 216:1
105:21,24 107:9,13
216:12,20,25 217:13
108:20 109:1,10,15
217:15 219:14,17
109:17 110:11,16
220:1 223:19 224:1
112:2,10 113:2,5,9
224:25 225:1
113:15 114:1 115:6,8
116:7,13,18 117:6,21 Thomas
3:13
117:23,23 118:2,17
118:24 120:6,6,15,16 Thornton
14:12,13
120:20 121:23
122:18,23 123:2,2,3 those
11:20 31:8 32:11 44:1
123:10,17,21,22,25
69:23 79:17 83:3
124:1,16,22 125:5,15
103:18 115:22,23
125:19,21 126:11,12
133:18 137:23 139:4
127:2 128:15 129:4,8
148:16 149:19
129:17,19,20 130:4
158:15 167:8 179:22
130:17,18 133:23
191:17,19 198:25
134:2,6,8,15,23,25
202:6,8,10,12
135:23 137:9,18


Page 59
though
62:1 80:13 81:4 175:1
189:5 201:20 215:2
thought
30:12 31:13 39:7 41:8
76:2 120:23 129:14
129:19 137:10 144:9
164:16 170:24 190:4
195:1 210:2,4 212:1
212:7 220:9
thoughts
158:7
thousand
115:14 117:10 139:2
threat
73:7 114:15 117:23
185:6
threatening
112:17
three
16:16 50:17,24 64:3
89:16 115:13 117:8
137:4,6,11 181:20
205:18 206:23
three-day
80:10,25 201:17
throat
89:1
through
8:13,14 46:24 110:13
124:19 136:17,18
143:3 166:9 167:25
174:9 179:14 198:1
213:12 215:25
Throughout
104:16
throw
108:3
throwing
218:2
thrown
129:18 130:18
tied
62:13
till
65:7 87:4 101:23
1-800-325-3376
time
7:3,8,13,18,22 8:9 9:4
9:10,13 11:21 21:13
29:11 31:5 32:13,15
46:19,22 57:13 61:11
67:7 73:1,2,10 82:3
83:20,21,23 89:11
91:13 99:24 100:24
102:5 104:16 109:5
113:19 117:4 120:4
121:15,20,22,23
127:24 130:21
135:23 141:3 145:19
145:19 154:1 157:21
159:7 163:21 175:20
180:22,23 181:15
184:14,23 187:15
189:18 192:25
194:12 199:2 200:2
201:3 203:25 204:4
220:13 221:14
224:22
times
83:4 103:3 131:14,24
132:16 142:17
173:13 179:5 198:21
202:18 204:17
timing
113:11
title
108:7 110:3 113:10,11
115:1
titled
50:8
to
5:5,7,17 6:4 7:20 8:3
8:24 9:3,15,18,21,22
10:1,6,7,8,10,11 11:5
11:19 12:5,5,12,13
12:13 13:23,24 15:7
15:22 16:1,2,7,10,18
16:19,20 17:2,10
18:10,15,16,17,18,21
19:1,3,4,12,14,15,19
19:20 20:13,14,18,21
20:24 21:1,6,9,11
22:11,13,22,22,23,25
23:1,7,14 24:13,13
24:14,18,19,22,24
26:1,2,7,12 27:16,16
28:5,9,12,13,16,19
29:1,17,17 30:8,14
30:15,16,17,24 32:1
32:5,7 33:25 34:5,10
34:11,12,14,14,24
35:15,20 36:6,8,10
36:15,16 37:7,8,15
37:23 38:4,5,12,25
39:25 40:6,8,12,23
41:7,7,15,17,23,23
41:24 42:2,4,17,20
42:23 43:3,8,9,12,16
43:23,24 44:2,3,15
44:17,20,23,23 45:4
45:12,18 46:2,8,18
46:18,19 47:11,15,25
48:1,7,10,11,20,25
49:1,4,9 50:8,11
51:20 52:16,20 53:3
53:8,19,21,23 54:2,3
54:22 55:13,14,21,23
55:23,24 56:2,4,6,7
56:10,13,13,14,16,16
56:17,18,18,22,24
57:2,8,13,22,23 58:3
58:11,12,15,15,15,17
58:18,22 59:3,7 60:1
60:5,6,14,24 61:1,2,2
61:4,6,6,9,10,11,17
61:20,21,22 62:2,10
62:15 63:12,13,16
64:2,3,5,6,9,22 65:1
65:3,4,8 66:11,16,18
66:22 67:3,8,9,11,15
67:18,23,24,25 68:4
68:10,14,18 69:8,9
70:3,5,9,12,13,14
71:9,17,19 72:4 73:5
73:7 74:3,6,13,22
75:6,23,23 76:9,20
76:22,25 77:17 78:17
78:17,19 79:2,5,20
80:1,13,17 81:3,15
82:1,9,24 83:10,16
83:19,23 84:1,6,8
85:2,4,4,18,21,22
86:1,2,23 87:2,20
88:1,3,10,12,16,23
89:4,10,11,20,22,25
90:3,9,14,14,21
91:19,23,23 92:5,5,7
93:2,5,12,14,15,18
94:13,15,17,22,23
95:13 96:4,5,5,6 97:4
97:6,10,12,13,20,22
98:4,12,13,14,16,20
98:21,23 99:17 100:3
100:6,18 101:5,6,9
101:11,15 102:5,13
102:15,15,15,16,17
104:10 105:9,10,14
105:25 106:9,11,18
106:22 107:10,22,24
108:3,17,21,23
109:16,21 110:8,12
110:13,15 111:1,13
111:16,18,20,24
112:3,5,15,17,18,21
113:13 114:1,3,4
115:12,13,13,15,16
116:7,11,24,25 117:1
117:5,9,11,17,24,24
118:7,8,14,19,23
119:3,8,19,24 120:5
120:10,11 121:3,18
121:24 122:18,21
123:4,5,6,8,12,18,22
124:4,9,11,19,25
125:6,16,17,18,20
126:7,25 127:5,7,9,9
127:10,15,22,23,23
128:9,11,20,25 129:1
129:8,13,15,16 130:4
130:10,13,24 131:19
131:20,25 132:7,8,9
132:17,19,25 133:2
134:3,11,18,19,20,21
134:21,23,25 135:2,6


Page 60
179:13,17,18,24
135:8,9,9,15,16,17
180:6,10 181:1,4,5,9
135:24 136:1,7,12,14
181:16,20 182:1,2,9
136:18,20,21,22
182:15,18 183:1
137:23 138:1,3,5,7,9
184:2,3,5,6,6,8,10,11
138:21 139:18,21
184:14,15,16,16,17
140:10,13,14,18,20
185:7,8,15,21 186:9
141:6,13,14,15,18
186:10,10,14,20,25
142:1,6,10,15 143:24
187:15,18,25 188:2,6
144:8,11,13,17,22,24
188:9,17,20,25 189:3
145:1,11,11,19,22
189:19 190:14,16,25
146:7 147:2,7,21
191:1,2,16,17,18,20
148:1,9,10,11,17,18
191:23,24 192:2,3,6
148:24 149:1,3,7,16
192:10,11,12,14,14
149:17,20,21 150:4,8
192:19,19,21,25,25
150:10,13,19 151:1
193:1,7,17,24 194:2
151:11,16 152:1,7,19
194:12,17,19,20,24
152:20,25,25 153:1
195:1,8,15,18,21,22
153:14 154:3,5,10,14
196:4,11,15,15,22
154:20,21,22 155:5,6
197:8,8,12,13,15,17
155:6,7,9,12 156:1,4
198:11,21 199:3,10
156:8,17 157:5,24
199:11,12,12,12,19
158:5,22 159:8,10,17
199:23,25 200:3,4,7
159:18,19 160:1,7,12
200:10,13,18,19,20
160:19,25 161:6,8,10
201:3,5,8,8,14,19
161:14,15,18,19,21
202:7,16,19 203:4,10
161:21,24 162:1,18
203:20,20,24 204:14
162:24 163:17,22
204:18,22,23,24
164:1,10,11,13,14,16
205:16 206:15,20,22
164:24 165:8,19,21
207:6,10 208:2,5,6
165:23 166:2,10,11
208:17,18,25 209:15
166:21,23 167:2,7,8
209:20 210:20
167:16,16,17 168:16
211:11 212:19 213:8
168:19,22 169:1,5,9
213:13,14 214:1,4,5
169:16,17,19,20
214:5,13,15,17,18
170:16,18 171:2,5,7
215:1,3,6 216:6,7,12
171:11,12,18,19,22
216:23,25 217:10,11
171:24 172:4,11,14
217:14,17,18,21
172:21 173:2,5,9,12
218:13,21,23 219:6
173:15,17 174:1,2,11
220:10 221:7,7 222:3
174:14,20,22 175:1
222:11,11,12,18,18
175:11,13,14,14,17
223:1,5,5,7,17,21
175:18,22 176:6,8,12
224:18,24 226:13,13
176:21,23 177:12,15
today
177:17,19,22,23
178:1,2,5,9,10,25
41:5,8 57:14 98:20
179:2,7,10,11,12,13
100:2 104:4 117:5
1-800-325-3376
143:25 179:4,8 181:6

182:19 197:4 202:17
206:18 207:13
209:13 211:19
218:19,25 219:2,6
today's
214:1
together
129:18 130:18
told
30:1 32:6 44:4 80:3
87:23,24 135:17
149:22 173:14
184:12 188:1 190:24
197:8 202:25 210:1,2
218:16
Tony
28:23 180:19
too
37:20 39:14 104:9
119:5 129:23 147:9
178:18
took
14:4 44:7 90:16
140:19 141:7 149:25
203:23
top
110:4 217:20
topic
16:12 45:15 109:10,15
109:17 204:18 216:3
topics
45:9 70:9
total
130:11,15
toward
40:25 107:24
track
179:3 221:16
transcribed
226:8
transcript
148:23,24 172:16
192:6,7 195:6,11,12
195:14 200:25
202:23 226:10
transcription
226:9
transmitted
84:6 175:21 176:5
177:10
traveled
81:15,22
treat
117:17 140:24
treated
117:20 131:24 141:23
trial
12:24 13:1,8,14 15:4
15:12,19,20,23 23:17
23:21,24 24:2,7
25:23 90:25 91:6,13
99:3
tried
9:2 11:19 201:3
trigger
38:7
true
33:17 112:15 129:4,5
129:6 176:7 178:3
189:14,19 190:22
191:2,4,7 215:9,10
217:19,23 226:10
trust
78:15 87:25
truth
183:1 196:18
try
19:21 43:3 68:21
90:14 91:23 102:15
109:21 127:9 152:1
177:22
trying
61:10 63:13 67:8,23
83:19 96:5 113:13
117:1 139:18 150:4
154:3 158:22 160:12
175:17,18 179:12
180:6 181:4 194:19
195:8 203:20 215:3
217:18 223:17
Tuesday


Page 61
151:7 156:1 189:2
201:7,12
turn
17:1
turned
27:22 39:8
two
51:6,16 52:18 84:20
139:1 141:6 151:16
152:7 158:15 166:8
179:22
two-page
181:17
type
8:20 146:4 153:4
typed
148:2,25
typically
18:8
U
uh-huh
38:18 50:19 52:3
129:10 136:5
ultimate
125:7
ultimately
28:19 89:13
unanimous
141:12,14
unaware
133:21
unblemished
88:1
unclear
109:16 110:10
uncommon
112:18
under
16:7 27:17 44:1 50:17
50:18,23 72:10,12
74:2,7 83:10 125:8
149:19 166:16
210:20 218:20
underlies
130:19
1-800-325-3376
understand
19:8 21:19 29:2 35:15
39:2 58:12 63:25
66:1,3,6,14 67:15
68:24 69:3,10 76:23
104:23 127:2 128:7
129:7 132:11 135:12
136:14 150:5 152:2
152:12 154:12
158:16 165:2 166:13
175:25 177:20
180:22 187:7 190:5
199:21 200:24
223:11
understanding
53:5 63:1 76:14,19
77:18,24,25 78:18
79:1 93:23 136:11
140:22 206:7 207:1
understood
18:16,19 62:14,17
92:1 109:4 141:25
187:11 219:21
undertook
38:5,13
underway
91:2
unfair
152:19
unfiled
99:4
Unfortunately
39:7
uniform
73:2
unintentionally
78:16
unique
112:2
uniquely
139:15
United
1:1,7 2:14 9:6 101:2,3
134:13 136:16
University
143:2
unlawful
90:13 194:20 197:5,9
197:13,17 217:22
unless
20:21 173:15 214:22
unofficial
148:22 172:19
unreasonable
58:14
unredacted
53:21
unrelated
70:12,13,14
unsealed
99:4
until
12:6,9 43:22 56:3
73:18 87:3 105:23
123:8,8 139:8,11
149:13 199:1
up
8:13,13 17:11 27:20
27:20 34:12 43:13
46:3,23 49:4 63:18
65:7 89:5 96:25
110:22,25 111:15
112:1,6,7 117:15
121:24 137:14 138:5
148:13 149:4 150:3
174:8 177:14 178:15
179:15 187:1 198:25
204:23,24 214:14
216:12,14
upheld
209:9
uphold
24:23
upon
17:9 91:15 226:11
Urban
3:6
us
8:24 43:8,16 57:20
61:12 78:17 120:10
149:7 206:18,19
use
11:18 28:9 70:5

148:25 185:7
used
26:22 33:15 122:5
170:13
useful
135:14
using
83:13,17 158:20
utilities
129:3
U.S
9:23 11:25 13:5 36:13
90:18
V
V
9:23 12:1 13:5 36:13
90:18
vacate
111:13,16,19,20
vacated
111:17
vacation
128:24 211:6
vague
103:6 109:15 113:5
Vaguely
13:2,11 205:1
valid
100:12
validate
120:11
validity
58:19 74:20 194:17
213:22
value
32:7
valued
32:8
variety
47:21,23
various
30:21 32:12 70:12
vehicle
72:11 184:25 185:1


Page 62
187:24
verbal
88:10 187:16 188:17
200:11
verse
169:14
versed
212:13
version
50:22 51:4 152:10
153:23 162:14,24
164:7,11,14,23 165:6
165:16 166:10,11
221:4
versus
9:6
very
24:7 25:18 31:17 95:3
102:10 131:19
140:15 142:1 161:20
180:13 184:16 188:1
189:2 224:21
Vestavia
3:7
VIA
2:16,17
victim
217:22
view
30:3 92:10 97:20
191:17
viewed
83:6
views
29:13
violate
96:2 197:12
violated
215:17
violates
194:21
violation
14:8 15:25
violations
22:3,18
virtue
1-800-325-3376
135:19 191:18
wanting
117:5
wants
75:23
warned
36:25
warrant
175:15 191:1
Warren
175:14
was
6:15 7:8,9,9,17,25 8:1
9:20,24 10:5,16,18
10:19,20,23,24,25
W
11:2,6,13,19 12:6,9
W
12:21 13:25 14:1
3:11,13
15:12,24 18:3,4,4
Wagner
19:15,17 20:8 21:24
8:15 9:12,14,22 10:7
22:7 23:9 25:14,18
12:2,9
25:20 27:3,7,9,13,15
wait
27:17 28:4,11,15,17
54:10 87:4 153:14
28:21 30:5 31:9,12
181:1
31:17 33:7,17,20
waiting
34:8 35:5,6,13,24
87:3
37:25 39:1,6,20 40:3
waive
42:5,15,25 43:23
191:24 192:12 193:1
44:9,14 45:1 46:10
waived
48:18,22 49:7,11,20
223:22
50:4 51:2,15,19,23
waiver
52:5,6,16,19,20,22
61:14
52:24,25 53:1,2,2,3,5
want
53:6,14 54:18 55:3
11:5 39:24 53:23 61:4
58:1 59:24 60:3,10
64:4,9 92:7 105:14
61:24,24 62:20 63:4
106:22 123:6 138:9
63:10 64:8,12,16,22
147:7 159:18 161:21
65:9,21 66:1,16,22
165:21 173:17
68:24 69:1,4,11,14
184:14 188:6 191:16
69:19 70:11 71:20
192:10,11 193:17
72:11,13,20 73:1,2,2
195:15 196:4,15,16
73:4,19 75:3 76:25
208:2 214:15,17
78:7,9 79:2,4,5,5,16
216:22 221:7
79:25 80:15 81:6
wanted
82:8,11 83:3,19 84:4
27:16 85:2,4,4,21 86:1
84:5,14,18,20,21
111:24 135:2,9,13,16
85:7 86:5,5,7 87:1,2
104:21
voice
103:23 222:22
volume
178:10
vote
11:7 88:7,8,11,12 89:6
141:12,14 208:14,16
208:17,25 209:25
210:12,15
voted
131:20 209:15
voting
96:14,16,20,22
87:3,4,21 88:7,9,11
88:13,17,21,22,22,23
88:23,24 89:4,7,9,13
90:9,17,21,23,24,24
91:5,7,22 92:1,11
93:11,20,22 94:2,25
95:2,3,4,6,9 96:14
99:21 102:8 103:3,9
103:11,13,23 104:17
105:6,18,22 107:13
107:24 108:9,22
109:8,8,9,10,17
110:12 111:15,19,19
112:1,6,8,12,23
113:3,16 114:14,19
115:7 117:4,6,22,22
117:23,24,25 118:9
119:17 120:3 122:13
123:24 125:10,13,15
125:19 126:10,15,24
127:5,7,9,12,24
129:17,18,20 130:14
130:16,18,18 131:10
131:14 132:6 133:8
134:15,18,18,19
135:17 136:15,17
137:6 138:13,24
139:1,5,8,13,15
141:3,5,9,10,11,14
141:14,20,24 142:3,7
142:22 144:9,12
145:17,20,23,23
146:11,11,18,24
148:16,17,17,18,21
149:16 150:7,8,22,23
151:8,21 152:21
154:1,13,13,18,22,24
155:2,14,18 156:20
156:21 158:1,2,4,5
158:10,12,13,19,19
158:21,23,24 159:5,7
159:15 160:4,11,24
161:3,4,9,12,17,24
162:1,3,6,6,15,16
163:20 164:8,11,14
164:18,18,19,20,20


Page 63
165:2,13,16,16,17,22 153:11,17 157:16
165:22,24,25 166:6
way
168:1,8 170:2 171:24 8:23 17:13 26:2 29:18
173:5,23 174:5,15,17
36:20 48:18 55:14
174:19 175:2,12,13
56:25 63:20 67:23
175:16,20 176:2,3,4
73:5 76:20 82:9,12
177:5,6,9,24,25
84:7 88:18 100:4
178:9,9 179:1,15,15
117:18 122:11 123:3
179:16 180:8,15,18
127:10 131:21
180:20,25 182:13,21
133:24 137:24
183:1,3,18,22,24
138:13 142:5 156:6
184:8,9,9,9,11,16
156:13,22 158:12,22
186:12 187:3,4,5,9
159:13 165:4,7 167:4
187:12 188:10,16
167:9 170:5,18,23,24
189:24 190:1,8,9,10
171:2,6,11,17 172:1
190:12 191:6,8,9,9
190:9 191:10 215:21
191:12,13,13 192:19 ways
193:6,9,10,10,24
16:16
194:5,13,22,23 195:1 we
195:11 197:7,8,10,16 6:20 8:25 9:1,2,3 18:9
200:2,18,20 201:6,22
18:12,20 19:23 20:17
202:25 203:1,3,3,23
21:12 29:19,21 32:8
204:8,13,18 205:3
38:9 39:3 40:22
206:1,8 207:14,16,22
42:24 43:17,18,19,25
208:11,14,14,16,17
44:7,12,16 45:9,13
210:3,4,7,9,14,16,16
47:2 49:4,9,19 53:20
210:17 211:13,17,20
55:17,22 56:1,3,24
211:21,23,24 212:5
57:1,15,17 60:7,14
217:18 218:12
60:16,17 61:12,13
220:20 222:25 223:9
64:9,14 67:19,20,22
223:14,20,20 224:14
70:15 78:14 80:19
224:15 225:6 226:6
94:15 95:10 96:4
washed
99:1 101:8,20,25
173:24
102:21,22 104:8,13
Washington
108:19 110:7 119:3
2:20
120:12,25 121:18
wasn't
125:17,18 137:19,22
65:17 79:24 91:4
138:2,21 139:7
103:12 151:4 154:23
141:22 146:14,21
154:23 158:18
147:4,10 149:8,9,10
161:13 168:7 174:6
149:18,25 157:7,17
180:7,9 209:24
174:5 175:16,17,18
211:11,21
191:17 192:3 195:19
wasting
195:21,22 198:11
201:12 203:15 204:3
121:15
204:22,22,23 205:6
water
1-800-325-3376
170:25 171:24
213:10 217:5 220:9
177:22 178:14,21
220:22 221:17 224:2
180:4,13,22 181:24
weapon
182:1,4,24 183:22
184:20,22 185:5
184:2 185:12,23
wear
186:1 192:8 193:3
186:2
194:6,11 195:5,12,23
web
196:9,22,25 197:14
116:2
198:5 203:22 207:15
Wednesday
207:19 209:8,23
203:8
210:9 212:13 214:1
week
215:5,22,24 217:1
36:25 93:21,23 94:2,2
218:2,4 220:4 222:4
110:11,14 112:10
223:19 224:4
175:12 180:25
went
weeks
7:10 51:20 65:3
98:17 131:6 180:25
123:22 137:1 145:15
211:7
177:25 183:25
welcome
184:19 199:4
100:25 118:21
were
well
14:14,15 16:6 20:2,20 6:12 8:6,8,10,10,13
9:4,11,15 11:3,11,16
25:10 26:21 29:20
11:17,20 12:23 13:17
30:11 31:2,12 34:12
13:18 15:18,22 18:20
34:19 37:4 40:19
18:24 20:25 21:3
45:21,25 46:21 47:7
22:6 25:12 27:3,10
50:21 52:19 54:1
27:24 28:19 29:20
56:12 57:10,21 60:11
30:12 32:11 35:4,25
61:1 62:2 63:2 64:5
43:1 44:15 47:2
64:6 67:2,10,17,22
49:24 52:20 59:23
71:16 73:1 78:1 85:4
60:13 65:1 66:6
88:21 89:8 98:2,6
67:15 69:23,25 71:1
101:21 103:6 106:12
73:13 74:17 75:6
106:16 108:21 109:8
76:8,9,15 77:18 78:8
110:19 111:18
79:10 80:14 81:5,8
119:23 121:4,16
82:15,25 83:13,17
123:9 126:20 127:16
86:24 88:15 89:19
127:19 132:12
90:17,23 91:14,18
136:14 138:12
92:11 93:17 94:13
139:23 140:2,5
95:7 96:9,16,20,22
144:14 145:25
96:25 97:5,6,13
148:22 150:14,22
103:14 104:25
153:22 154:4 155:16
106:19,24 107:14,16
155:24 156:22
107:22 109:6 110:11
158:15,18 159:18,22
110:13,25 111:11,21
161:21 164:22
113:3 116:2,4 117:20
165:15,20 166:5,14


Page 64
175:25 177:14,20
118:8,22 120:21,21
what
178:5,13 179:10
120:23 130:12,13
7:15 9:1,21 10:22
181:24 182:24
131:11 133:18
13:17 14:15,19 18:21
184:19 185:18 188:6
134:22 135:1,7 137:2
18:23 19:16 21:2,11
189:9,15 190:4,10,21
139:3 140:15 141:6
21:15 25:11,14,19,20
191:4,6,10,14,25
141:18,22 142:6
26:15 28:8 29:16
193:6,9 194:6,16,24
151:2,6 156:16 166:9
31:15 41:2 42:24
195:15 196:12 198:4
171:22 173:1,9 175:9
43:19 44:13,13 45:10
198:5,10,11 199:2,10
175:16,17,18,23,23
50:7,22 53:6,13,24
202:5,18 206:6
175:25 176:3 177:8
55:13,21 56:7,21
209:21 210:2,5,6,24
178:2 179:1,21,23
58:10 60:7,24 61:15
212:14 214:11 216:8
181:6,16 183:14,25
61:24 62:1,9 67:19
216:25 217:6,14,18
184:4,5 188:1,25
67:20 68:5,9,19,23
219:8,14 223:20
189:3 190:13,24
69:1,2,3 70:20 72:2
whatever
192:2 197:15 198:10
72:10 73:21 74:10
199:9 201:21,25
8:2 17:24 34:25 45:24
75:25 82:3 84:12
204:17 205:11
59:25 68:3 78:17
85:7 88:5 91:9,11
207:11,18,19 209:8,9
143:22 173:17
93:17 96:16,22 97:13
209:9,17 210:5,7
187:12 196:16
97:15 101:6,7 102:4
211:2,15 212:11
202:16 211:10
102:14,16 103:8,18
217:7 220:9 226:8
106:1,5,10,12 108:2 what's
weren't
108:7 109:25 110:19 22:9 34:16,16 71:24
139:4,7 179:12 212:8
110:21 112:15 113:1
119:21 124:24 126:5
Westin
114:22 115:2 116:4,5
138:18 142:14 164:3
116:9 117:4 118:7,8
185:10 213:11
6:7
120:6,9 121:4,6,21
when
we'd
121:21 122:17
7:6,18 9:20 13:19
101:6
124:15,21 125:18
22:17 24:5 32:11
we'll
126:10 127:1,7,11,17
37:10 38:14 43:18
17:10 20:3 55:18
128:11 129:7,11
46:20 51:20 52:10
58:17 61:14,19 64:10
130:10 132:21
53:1,2 62:18 65:3,24
126:3 159:19 162:17
134:18,21 135:16,17
66:4 71:4 72:7 74:17
193:3
136:11,17
137:3
75:1,5 76:7,10,13,18
we're
138:4,5,7,12,15
81:14 82:3,14 83:14
16:12 43:3 44:5 45:17
139:16 141:16
83:18,24 84:18 85:17
55:24 56:4 95:22
144:25 145:8,11
86:23 90:16 91:2,2
101:5 119:9 121:5,6
147:10 148:17,19,20
91:18 92:11 93:18,22
137:25 149:23
148:20,21,23 149:1
96:13,19 98:11,13
165:18 174:1,1
149:10,14 150:4
106:18 107:13 109:9
196:12 214:5,11
152:24 154:2,12,18
110:7,10 113:3 115:7
220:12
154:18
155:5,15
115:9 120:20 123:21
we've
157:2 158:4,8,13,13
127:2 128:8 130:17
42:5 57:8 95:16 119:1
158:14,16 160:18
131:2 135:12 137:19
119:23 121:17 149:4
161:8,9,9,12 164:13
140:19 141:7 143:22
164:7 192:5 207:12
165:6 166:6 167:8,13
145:16,21 149:9
210:24 218:18
169:10 170:3 174:21
153:25 154:17
219:17,19 224:17
1-800-325-3376
155:15,20,21 156:16
156:19,20 157:21,25
157:25 158:1,2,10,11
158:19,24 159:5,7,15
165:11,16,16 171:9
171:15,20 175:21
176:3 177:25 178:1
179:3,5,9 180:19
181:15 182:3 183:25
184:10 187:20,22
188:15 204:10,23
207:13,15,15 208:5
209:15 212:3,6
whenever
182:25
where
18:11 45:10,10,15
51:1 56:4,8 60:13,16
61:13 62:5,6 63:14
67:11 68:11,12 87:7
87:24 96:4 108:19
109:17 116:3 128:12
128:15 131:23 132:9
136:23 138:2 147:11
150:9 151:8,10 152:3
155:15 159:25
162:13,15,15 166:22
167:13 173:24
217:14,24
whereupon
6:11 37:24 39:20 40:3
48:22 49:7,11 50:4
55:3 58:1 60:3,9
64:12,16 65:21 71:20
94:25 95:4,9 99:21
102:8 105:18 108:9
112:23 114:19 118:9
122:13 146:18,24
151:21 152:21 155:2
204:8 205:3 218:12
220:20
whether
14:7 15:8 21:4 27:7,15
28:4,5,13 34:9 35:13
35:24 37:12 38:4,13
39:12 41:18 44:22


Page 65
46:11 54:14,22 58:22
59:2,6,10,16,17,21
60:12 61:24 63:20
64:6 66:21 67:15
74:11 75:14 90:9
97:20 111:19 120:8
120:12,18 128:4
145:25 152:12
153:20 154:1 155:17
156:5,6 160:4,7
161:23,23 170:23
193:7,16 210:3
213:25 214:18
216:21 220:14
which
26:22 28:15,18 39:21
41:16 46:12 50:6,8
63:17 68:5 71:22
84:8 89:2,5,10 91:11
98:20 105:20 108:11
108:22 112:25
114:21 118:11
122:15 124:8,12
126:4,5 129:15
130:12 139:3 141:24
142:3 147:1 152:23
155:4 163:4,17 164:3
164:7 165:18,20,24
175:11,12 176:9,19
177:4 178:7 189:23
203:12 205:5 208:3
210:15 211:6 222:25
while
9:15 10:5 30:7 44:25
82:25 103:2 132:11
183:24 185:3
whistle
212:2 217:24
whistle-blower
217:22
who
7:17 8:15 9:11 11:23
11:24 14:13 27:3,3
27:16 28:15 32:6
35:4,10 43:5 44:18
63:18 72:19 86:7
1-800-325-3376
88:13 96:3,9,25
47:7,11 48:5,10 49:3
103:14 110:4 118:18
49:9,23 54:1,14,25
120:7,17 132:5 141:1
55:8 56:12,22 57:18
141:17 143:21
57:21 58:6,21 60:7
155:14,14 166:15,17
61:21 62:11,14,17,18
169:6 174:23 185:14
63:24 64:4,11,20,24
205:13 206:1,8 207:4
65:13,24 66:12,14,25
210:3 212:24 222:2
67:14,18 68:2,8,19
whole
68:21,23 69:3,6,10
70:15,25 71:9,13,16
27:24 40:8 74:14
71:23 75:21 76:4,7
106:10 129:18
78:11 79:7 83:17
whom
84:4 85:9,11,14 86:7
20:13 135:8 199:9
90:8 94:20,24 95:14
who's
95:18,22,25 97:15,18
104:11 167:8 207:3
97:19 98:2,6,11,25
why
99:4,12,16,25 100:1
44:11 51:22 55:24
100:10,23 101:1,10
76:14 77:3,7,10,18
101:14,24 109:13
78:9 79:2 110:25
111:22 112:5 114:4
120:11 137:18,19
115:16 117:11
138:8,10 142:4
123:12,16 126:3
151:25 175:2 178:16
132:19 133:2 135:6
178:17 179:23 182:2
136:1 140:18 144:11
194:25,25 204:3
144:19,24 147:7,21
209:23 218:2
151:19,22 154:10
will
157:7,12,24 159:22
11:18 16:25,25 17:2
160:2 163:22 164:2
40:1 45:9 48:20 54:4
164:10 168:16,22
67:20 78:16 102:2,12
173:12 176:6,8,12
102:22 112:20,21
179:17,24 180:10
130:1 143:13,14
182:15 183:7 185:15
216:5
199:25 202:7 203:17
willfully
206:22 213:8 216:19
26:10
217:2,9,12,16 218:14
Wilson
218:21 220:7,9,13,19
2:8 4:18,21 6:20,22
220:24 221:1,13,17
16:5 17:20 18:2,14
222:4,7,16 223:9,16
18:24 19:7,13,21,25
223:19 224:6,9,15,20
20:2,6,14,20 21:3,22
225:1
22:14 23:10,16 28:14
with
29:25 30:9,16,23
34:8,13 35:2 36:7,11 7:23 10:8 11:5 12:25
13:9 14:3 16:25 17:1
36:17 37:4,10 38:12
17:12 18:1 20:8
38:23 39:11,18,24
22:22 24:16 25:7
40:5,15 41:9,20
26:3,7,10,12,21
44:18 46:7,10,21
28:16 31:3,9,23 35:6

35:25 36:4,8,23
39:25 41:24 42:16,23
44:9,25 46:12 47:13
47:16 48:6,13 51:10
51:11 52:7,8,13,18
53:9 55:14,25 56:9
56:10 57:8,24 58:19
58:22 59:3,8,17 61:5
63:7 66:4,16 68:4,24
69:16,19 70:9,17
72:6 73:3,17 74:16
75:10 76:10,16,25
77:4,8,11,15,19
78:10 79:2,5,11,15
80:10 81:1,16,18
84:24 85:16 86:19,21
87:22 91:14,20,24
92:17 97:4 101:13
102:11 108:20 109:6
109:18 111:3 113:3,8
113:19 114:12
116:15 117:4 119:25
120:2,7 123:13
125:14 127:14
128:20 133:16,16
134:8,11 136:9,9
137:20 138:2,7
139:24 140:21
143:16,18 144:20
149:11,15 150:19,19
151:9 154:6 157:22
160:5 163:3,9 164:15
170:20,22 171:2,12
171:25 173:4,6 174:2
174:7,8,13,16 176:3
177:9 178:3 179:2,22
181:20 182:6,22
183:14,22 186:20
187:16 188:9,11,14
188:15,18,23 189:3
191:19,23 192:13,24
193:7 194:17 197:18
197:23,24 198:10,13
198:16,19,20 199:6
199:10,18 200:15,18


Page 66
200:21 201:9,10,17
204:15 205:19
206:17,19 207:8
209:25 211:20,21
213:21,25 214:16
215:6,16,18 216:9,25
218:24 219:2,25
222:12,19 223:3
withdraw
85:3,18 86:2 100:18
128:18 193:3
withdrawing
19:23
withhold
200:4
withholding
200:9
within
29:23 30:20 55:16
138:3 164:24 166:18
without
24:20 35:23 38:9
53:17 54:5,16 55:8
57:5,10 58:9 61:23
78:21 94:21 129:18
161:1 167:24 173:10
199:16 200:16
witness
6:10 16:2,6 21:19
23:11,14 39:4,7 47:4
49:1,6 55:20,25
56:15,19,22 57:2,4
57:12,13 58:6,15
61:2 65:12,20 76:2
99:1,6,9,20,23
100:25 101:17
102:24 117:2 126:4
132:24 133:13
146:16 153:16
157:15,18 186:21
191:20,21 203:16
222:9 224:23 226:11
woman
186:18
won't
8:25 119:18
1-800-325-3376
word
8:3 17:23 50:18 51:1,5
51:15 67:19 122:5
127:19 139:14
151:22 170:12,12
words
32:11 33:15 42:2,17
42:20 50:23 79:17
80:17 85:22 87:20
88:3 154:20 194:2
work
8:20 10:2 14:25 15:9
34:7,15 40:25 45:23
46:22 47:16 54:23
62:24 68:13 76:11
78:23 103:22 119:21
127:10 145:22
worked
7:3 8:23 48:13 103:2
working
7:6,13 47:13 67:5
175:17
workload
134:10
works
132:2 205:22
Worldwide
2:9
worse
13:23 113:12
worth
88:1
would
10:8 11:8 15:10 16:10
16:11,21,21 17:21
19:4,16 29:22 30:20
35:8 36:5 37:22
40:16 43:11 47:8,9
50:3 51:14 53:19
54:3,21 55:9,15,21
55:22 57:11,24 60:21
61:6,7,15 63:17,22
65:18 67:3,9,12 74:3
74:8,15 81:19 82:21
83:3,4 84:9,10 87:4
87:16 88:19 89:11
90:6,13 98:21 99:7

99:17,19 100:3 102:5
102:18,20 105:8,12
107:10,10 110:17
111:17,20 114:11
115:22,23 118:2,3,6
118:7 120:24 122:9
124:14,15 127:11,21
132:17 134:16,17,23
135:2,3,4,8,8,9,14
136:7,21,21 140:22
140:24 141:12 144:8
144:13 149:2 152:19
160:13,17,21,21,22
161:8,10,15 166:5,17
166:18,19,20 167:2
170:15,21,22,22
171:7,20 176:13,16
178:25 181:5 183:1
189:5,7 191:10 195:6
196:21 199:4 206:12
208:9 209:3,7 212:18
214:13 217:7 218:10
221:23 224:12
wouldn't
20:19 27:22 88:17
116:16 122:10
124:14 140:12,17
196:8
Wright
5:3,11 120:7 224:6,9
write
33:25 34:2,5,21,24
35:15 115:21
writing
188:17
written
33:20 42:24 44:24
71:6 85:3,19 86:13
86:17,20,25 87:1,2,7
88:9 89:7,10,13,20
118:4 122:7 125:19
187:16 188:17
200:11
wrong
22:23 87:25 129:24
130:22,25 133:8
157:9 174:10 206:10
215:22,23
wrote
35:15 59:25 97:5
118:1 176:11 178:15
X
X
4:15
Y
yeah
17:16 25:2 29:19
37:20 46:5 49:6 54:9
54:17 62:14 65:15
69:6 76:5 93:25
94:17 98:4,15,18
99:4 104:8 105:12
109:14 112:14 113:7
118:15 125:12
142:13,25 143:2,3,10
146:9 157:15 164:4
165:15,15 175:4
177:4,18 182:11
184:13 185:22
189:10 203:24
205:24 208:1,10
216:15 221:13,20,25
222:9
year
7:10 91:10,11 105:24
109:25 130:7 131:11
136:25 137:14
140:21 141:20 183:2
years
7:12 8:14 12:3 15:13
33:10,10 88:1 91:8
111:9 134:9 137:4,11
139:5 142:3 143:16
144:5 145:15,19
179:3
yes
7:5,21 9:19 10:3 11:4
12:14,17 15:14,17,21
20:12 21:6,10,11,12


Page 67
21:16,17,18,25 22:5 yet
22:16,20,24 23:4,9
147:5 188:21
23:10,12,15,23 24:1 York
24:4,10,22 25:2,9,13 2:11 80:12 81:2,15
25:24 26:14,19 27:2
82:1,9,11,15 201:18
27:12,14,25 28:7
you
29:11,15 31:7,14
6:18,25 7:3,6,18,20
33:3,4,14,18,23
8:6,14,22,25 9:4,5,10
35:22 37:9 40:7,15
9:15,15 10:13,14
42:2,7,17,20 46:11
11:2,2,11,15,23
46:16 47:2,6,7,14,18
12:18,23 13:4,7,12
47:22,24 48:5,7,8
13:12,16,17,18,19
49:13,16 51:3 52:10
14:3,7,11,15,21,24
52:15,19 53:7,15
15:3,6,8,8,18,22
54:1,3,6 55:1,7 61:19
16:16,22 17:4,17,19
66:17 69:22 70:21,22
18:17,18,23 19:8,13
71:3 72:18 73:14
20:6,10,19,24 21:1
74:25 75:8,13 76:1
21:15,16,17,23 22:1
82:17 83:12,15 84:15
22:6,14,17,17,21,23
85:23 86:11 88:3
23:5,17,17,21,24
89:15,18 90:20,22
24:2,5,5,8,11,12,14
91:17,21,25 92:3,8
24:18,24 25:4,10,10
92:13 93:9 94:5,7,9
25:22,25 26:2,6,11
95:20 96:8,17,23
26:15,18,20,24 27:7
98:10 99:16 102:24
27:15,19,19,24 28:1
104:19 107:3,10,15
28:4,5,8,10,14,16,19
108:14 110:22
28:22 29:1,2,7,12,16
115:19 122:25
29:20,23 30:3,8,12
124:14 125:2,11,15
30:24,25 31:3,6,10
126:18,21 130:2
31:13,15,18,22,25
136:4,4 145:12 146:9
32:4,16,18 33:5,5,19
146:9,23 147:6
33:21,25 34:3,5,18
151:12 156:10
34:21,24 35:10,13,13
159:11 160:10
35:14 36:17 37:5,10
162:21 163:13 165:2
37:11,22 38:3,13,14
169:12 182:11 183:8
38:15 39:6,24,25
183:13,21 186:6
40:5,9,10 41:5,11,20
197:6 198:2,24
41:23,23,25 42:4,8
202:10 205:14,17,21
42:11,21 43:4,4,12
207:16 215:11,13,20
43:13,14,15,16 44:3
219:7,24 221:6
44:6,8,11,12,19,22
223:21 224:16
44:23 45:3,18 46:2,4
yesterday
46:8,19,22 47:12,12
65:7
47:15,25 48:6,11,12
yes/no
48:16,20 49:20,24
37:8 46:18 48:25
50:7,8,13,16,17,22
1-800-325-3376
51:4,9,10,14,18 52:7
52:9,12,20 53:9,13
53:16,16,23 54:7,12
55:6,9,20 56:10,10
56:14 57:4,6,19
58:12,17,21 59:2,6,7
59:10,16,17,19,21
60:20,23 61:2,6,12
62:8,18,20,23 63:1,7
63:9,14,17 64:4,5,22
64:25 65:1,3,4,5,7,9
65:17,18,22,24 66:1
66:2,4,6,7,10,14,16
67:2,15,18,25 68:16
68:23 69:10 70:1,2
70:19,19,20 71:1,4,6
71:23,24 72:7,19
73:4,5,7,10,10,13,15
73:17,21,23 74:11,17
74:18,22 75:1,2,5,5,6
75:6,11,14,15,19
76:7,8,9,10,13,14,15
76:18,19,22,24 77:3
77:3,7,7,10,10,14,17
77:18 78:1,4,5,8,16
78:20,24,25 79:7,9
79:10,20 80:3,3,7,19
80:21 81:12,20,24
82:6,8,13,18,20 83:4
83:6,9,9,13,14,17,21
83:21,24 84:2,5,16
84:17,18,22 85:14,15
85:18 86:4,12,12,13
86:16,20,23,24 87:7
87:14,19 88:13,15,19
88:25 89:2,4,5,17,19
89:19,25,25 90:9,10
90:11,16,17,23 91:6
91:14,15,18,18,22
92:1,4,4,9,9,11,17,21
93:1,10,12,12,17,18
93:22 94:10,12,17
95:2,7,25 96:6,9,12
96:13,15,18,19,24
97:3,4,5,5,8,19,20
98:12,21 99:2,10,17
99:23 100:3,6,11,14
100:17,24 101:12,13
101:15 102:4,5,10,13
102:18,18,21,22
103:2,8 104:4,4,5,5,6
104:25 105:14
106:13,14,19,22,24
106:24 107:14,18
108:2,4,6,17,22
109:1,4,6,17,19,24
110:6,15,15,16,17,20
110:21 111:5,12,18
111:20,20,21 112:18
112:20,20 113:1,3,5
113:14,15,18,18,22
114:8,22 115:4,5,10
116:2,3,4,6,19 117:3
117:7,7,13 118:5,6
118:12,13,20,22,24
119:4,10,22,24,24
120:11,23 121:19,24
122:1,2,3,3,4,5,9,11
122:16,24 123:3,9,16
123:19,21 124:21
125:6,17 126:7,19,20
127:1,1,2,11,11,15
127:20,22 128:3,8,11
128:20 129:11 130:1
130:2 131:24 132:13
133:4,22 134:1,11,17
134:22,23 135:4,4,11
135:12,17,22 136:2
136:14 137:1,1,8,10
137:10,16 138:3,7,9
139:12,16 140:15,17
142:4,6,6,8,24
143:13,14,22,22
144:9,14,17,22,23
145:9,20 146:4,17,20
147:2,7 148:1,2,4,7
148:12,24 149:3,4,4
149:6,6,13,21,24
150:2,14,17,23 151:1
151:2,8,10,13 152:4
152:9,10,12,24 153:1
153:11,19,20,21,23


Page 68
203:10,17,19,22
154:5,17,18,19,21,21
204:7,14,17,18,21,25
154:24 155:5,7,9,17
205:9,10,11 206:6,11
155:18,24 156:1,5,5
206:17 207:1,2,6,11
156:6,11,13,17,18,23
208:2 209:17,20,24
156:25,25 157:1,14
210:1,1,2,7,15,20
157:16,19,22 158:9
211:2,12,15,20,25
158:12,16,23,24
212:1,8,11,14,21,23
159:2,6,7,8,13,22,22
213:12,13,22,25
160:2,7,7,24 161:5
214:7,14,20,22,23
161:15,21,23 162:11
215:2,13,18,18,20
162:12,13,14,16,20
216:6,8,10,13,15,22
162:23 163:18
216:24 217:2,5,19,21
164:16 165:13 166:5
218:2,10,16 219:5,23
166:8,14,20 167:5,15
219:25 220:22 221:2
167:17 169:1,5,9,14
221:3,4,7,9,11,14,15
170:10,15,17 171:4,9
221:16,18 222:2,6,11
171:15,17,18,22
222:13,16,16,18,20
172:21 173:1,3,6,8,9
223:1,5,10,12,16,22
173:9,13,14,17
224:21,23 225:2
174:16,20,20 175:1,1
175:2,5,22,25 176:3 your
176:4,10,18,18 177:8 6:25 7:22,23 8:5 19:3
177:10,14 178:1,7,10
25:11,14 29:1,14
179:12,21,21,23
30:6,6,24 31:1,4,23
180:4,5 181:1,5,6,8,9
32:2,13 33:21 35:4
181:15,20 182:2,5,6
38:7 40:11,12 44:24
182:6,19,20,24 183:6
45:1,4 48:2,13,17
183:7,9,11,14,21,25
51:12 52:1,1,4 53:24
183:25 184:5,6,14,20
54:7 57:19 58:13,15
184:22 185:10,13,18
59:12 63:15,25,25
186:11 187:7,8,9,15
66:7 67:5 68:24
187:20,20 188:6,6
69:16 70:5,17 73:16
189:9,18,21 190:4,12
73:19,25 74:19 75:9
190:15,22 191:4,6,19
75:16,19 78:1 83:6
191:20,24 192:10,11
83:13,17 84:18,24
192:11,12,20 193:5,7
85:2,20 86:1 87:10
193:14,20 194:13,14
89:22 91:22 92:5,6
194:25,25,25 195:5,6
92:10 93:12,23 94:12
195:10,15,24 196:4,4
95:7 96:6 97:10,13
196:7,15,16,22,23
97:21 98:19 100:1,24
197:1,4,15,15,22
101:18 102:18 103:4
198:2,6,6,6,7,12,13
103:22,24 104:16,17
198:19,23 199:4,17
104:20,23 105:5
199:19,22,24 200:10
106:2,2,6 107:17,21
200:16,17,19,22
107:24 109:11,11
202:3,6,8,12,12,15
111:10,12,23 112:1,2
1-800-325-3376
112:10,11,12 114:1
114:16 115:12
116:13,20 117:5,12
119:21,23 121:15
125:7,8 126:10,13,23
128:7 130:6 133:10
135:24 136:11,12
137:2,6 138:22,24
139:6,13,19 142:7
144:7,7 145:1,25
146:11 151:14 152:4
152:10 153:23 154:6
154:7 156:7,23 158:9
158:12,25 160:4,9,13
162:14,24 164:6,23
165:6,25 166:13
168:14,25 171:14
174:18 177:23 178:8
181:4,13,15,16,21,24
182:6,8,19,22 184:5
187:8 189:13 191:17
193:6 197:7,21
199:21,23 200:14,22
200:24 204:13 205:7
205:12,15,16,25
206:9,20 207:8,13
208:18 209:2,10,13
209:16,20 210:20
211:3,12,19 212:17
212:17 213:4 216:17
217:14 218:3,23
222:25 223:1 224:22
yours
54:11 154:17 162:16
yourself
99:17 148:2 222:17
you'd
42:23 167:15
you'll
70:5 155:8
you're
15:11 16:8 29:25 30:7
34:10 46:3 52:7
56:16 57:3 60:19,25
61:5,21 66:25 68:5
98:9 100:25 106:10
111:1 113:22 118:21

121:14 124:17
129:13 132:20 137:8
138:15,17 154:3
173:15 174:4 176:20
177:4,20 178:13
189:22 191:22
192:22 193:1 196:10
200:21 204:11
212:13,18 213:12,21
213:24 214:15,18
215:1,7,15,16,22,23
216:11 223:17
224:11
you've
30:6 33:8 52:8 68:3
98:21 108:12 123:12
123:17 147:15
155:25 160:18
162:12 167:18
173:18 182:12
184:18 185:12
186:20 192:1,1 197:4
y'all
44:4,4 149:22,22
153:14 154:7
Z
zero
137:5,11
$
$18,750
118:19
$3
145:23
$375,000
110:5 118:19 136:25
138:25 139:1 143:14
$400,000
143:9
$800
219:16
$88,000
140:20


Page 69
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#306
2:2 226:24
1
1
5:3,9 39:19,20 105:17
105:18 108:22
1st
46:24 47:15 48:1
121:24 155:19 156:2
156:11 180:18
1.13
92:22
1:45
102:6
1:46
102:9
10
5:22 146:14 205:3,7
207:7 210:25 212:22
213:4 219:12
10th
73:24 74:12 105:23
10/18/12
5:11
10/19/12
5:12
10/23/12
5:14
10:00
6:10 203:7
10:36
40:4
10:38
40:4
10:50
49:8
10019-7475
2:11
102
4:19
105
5:9
108
5:11
1-800-325-3376
11
201:15
11th
80:9,24 82:7,14
200:25
11-09-16
2:3 226:25
11/1/12
5:15
11/10/10
5:10
11:06
49:8
11:29
64:13
11:41
64:13
112
5:12
114
5:14
118
5:15
12
27:1 32:16 65:4 79:8
96:1 172:17 190:14
191:14 202:4 207:23
207:24
12th
32:22 33:6 41:21 42:9
42:22 74:24 77:21
80:2,8 84:24 87:18
88:5 92:18 93:11
96:19 97:3 148:5,13
154:5 173:16 177:7
188:4 189:12,23
191:9 193:10 203:10
204:21 207:11
208:13 209:14
211:16 212:4 221:8
12:18
95:1
12:32
95:1
12:36
99:22
12:40
99:22
12:42
102:9
122
5:17
1298
130:7,16 131:8,11,17
132:16
13
122:20 129:20 130:5
133:10
13th
145:7 146:10 207:21
134
153:8
14
190:14
14th
174:17 175:8 176:2
177:8 178:7 179:11
180:14
146
5:18
15
204:6
152
5:19
155
5:21
18
108:16
18th
109:25 110:3 175:13
19
113:9
1901
3:15
1952
3:6
1982
7:8 145:22
1988
7:14,18 8:4,13
1997
96:13
2
2
5:5,5,11 36:19 42:5
47:11 48:16 50:4,8,9
62:19 83:21 100:7,9
100:11 108:3,9,13
125:22 126:16,20,23
157:10 223:1,22
2nd
10:24 32:18,23,24
33:19,24 34:6 35:2
40:11 42:23 43:17,22
44:12,23,23 45:5
48:11 50:14,23 51:5
52:9 59:19 63:2,10
64:25 65:8,25 66:5
69:8,24 70:25 75:11
79:6 84:5 85:16,19
86:1 94:12 95:7,15
95:17 97:5 126:6
128:20 129:9,12,18
129:21 130:3 133:7,7
135:12 149:7,13
155:24 156:18,23
157:4,23 175:3,9,21
176:2,4,11,14,21
177:8,9,15,17,19,24
179:12 181:7 182:9
182:21 200:16,21,22
201:7,12 202:24,24
205:8 224:1
2/25/13
5:18
2:47
146:19
20
144:5
2002
96:20
2003
96:20
2007
13:21
2008
8:1,5 10:14 11:10,24
12:4,25 13:4,17,21


Page 70
13:24 15:7,10 90:24
2009
12:20 13:7,14 14:5,8
15:12 23:3
2010
12:7 42:15 43:18,22
73:24 74:12 105:23
137:6 138:24 149:9
149:13
2011
139:8,11 180:18
2012
15:16,20 20:7 22:21
23:3,17 29:6,10 80:9
80:24 81:24 82:7
91:14,18 107:18
109:12 110:3 113:9
114:25 117:8 118:18
121:24 130:7,9
131:12 201:15,16
2013
1:25 6:9 27:1 32:16
33:25 35:2 41:21
42:9 46:24 47:12,15
48:1,11,16 50:10,14
65:25 71:19 72:5
74:24 77:21 79:8
80:2 87:18 88:5
92:19 93:11 97:4
100:7 122:20 130:5
135:23 136:15 137:2
139:3,15 141:16
142:6 147:13 149:14
150:9 155:11 180:18
182:21 183:12 188:4
188:16 202:4 203:10
207:24 221:8 225:7
202)514-3749
2:21
205
5:22
205)254-1000
3:18
205)325-5688
4:7
205)380-2499
1-800-325-3376
3:8
205)879-5000
3:24
20530
2:20
21
118:17
212)474-1348
2:12
220
4:21
2221
6:7
23
114:25
2499
3:16
25
33:10 88:1 111:9
145:19
25th
105:24 147:13
26th
150:8,24 155:10,17
160:15 161:7,13,23
162:12 172:25
173:15,18
28
7:14
28th
8:4
280
4:4
3
3
5:6,12 71:10,20,24
73:15 75:2 76:8
112:23 113:2 156:25
157:2,7 183:6 200:2
3rd
10:25 203:8
3/13/13
5:17
3:21
146:19
30
1:25 39:23
30th
6:9 55:18 225:7
31st
10:23
34
222:1,1
35
203:23
35203
4:6
35203-2618
3:17
35209
3:23
35242
3:7
3530
3:22
39
5:3
4
4
5:14 114:19,23,24
4/7/13
5:4
4/8/13
5:6
4:39
204:9
4:53
204:9
40
203:23
4026
2:18
5
5
5:15 118:9,13 137:14
141:1,19
5:15
220:21
5:17
220:21
5:20
225:6
50
5:5
6
6
4:18 5:17 122:13,17
126:13 130:5 145:11
146:21
7
7
5:18 146:24 147:11
71
5:6
716
4:5
8
8
5:19 71:19 152:21
153:1,19 160:19,22
163:5,12,18
8th
71:5 72:5 74:18 76:8
87:3,5 183:11 184:10
184:18 187:8,14
188:16 189:17 190:1
190:2,6,13,14,23
194:15 197:16 198:1
198:14,15 199:7,17
200:1
8:45
72:8
825
2:10
9
9
5:21 155:2,7 159:4
162:10 164:8 165:22
170:18,23 221:3
222:25 223:9
9th


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2:2 226:24
9:30
147:12 189:17 190:15
190:24 199:1
950
2:19
1-800-325-3376


Jeff Sewell Deposition

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Jeff Sewell Deposition

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In The Matter Of:

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

CIVIL ACTION NO.:

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Merrill Corporation - New York

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

Jane B. Elliott, CCR

ACCR #306 - Expires 9-30-13

Notary Public - Expires 11-09-16

CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE, LLP

Mr. Rowan D. Wilson

825 Eighth Avenue

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

Civil Rights Division

Mr. Jay D. Adelstein (VIA TELEPHONE)

Mr. Joseph J. Sperber (VIA TELEPHONE)

Patrick Henry Building, Room 4026

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Merrill Corporation - New York

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

FOR THE DEPONENT:

LOWE & GRAMMAS, LLP

Mr. E. Clayton Lowe, Jr.

1952 Urban Center Parkway

Vestavia Hills, Alabama

FOR THE DEFENDANTS:

MAYNARD, COOPER & GALE, PC

Mr. David W. Smith

Mr. James L. Mitchell

Mr. W. Thomas Mayfield, IV

Ms. Grace Robinson Murphy

1901 Sixth Avenue North

2499 Amsouth Harbert Plaza

Mr. Jay E. Murrill

3530 Independence Drive

Merrill Corporation - New York

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

(APPEARANCES FOR DEFENDANTS)

Mr. Theodore A. Lawson, II

Assistant County Attorney

Room 280 Courthouse

716 Richard Arrington, Jr. Blvd. N.

Merrill Corporation - New York

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

Copy of April 2 memorandum,

Copy of letter, 4/8/13, Carrington

Copy of Al.com article, 10/18/12,

Copy of Al.com article, 10/19/12,

Copy of Al.com article, 10/23/12,

Copy of Al.com article, 11/1/12,

Copy of memorandum, 3/13/13, Sewell 122

Copy of series of e-mails, 2/25/13

Copy of resolution of organization, 152

Copy of resolution of organization, 155

Copy of settlement agreement

Merrill Corporation - New York

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

I, Jane B. Elliott, Certified

Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public for the

State of Alabama, acting as Commissioner,

certify that on this date, pursuant to the

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the

foregoing stipulation of counsel, there came

before me at the Westin Birmingham, 2221 Richard