Michael Gargiulo: Part 5 Transcript of "Perkins Operation"

Transcript*Time*25:35* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:23*pm*
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Oh. We just need an explanation. And then, I said You know Well *** the guy. I could have been in the house like. Okay.
what? I dont know. I dont remember.
someone saw you come out right after the <Whistle> J S D S J S D Mr. Baker, your attorney ***. Fucking A, Its about time. ***show up? Mmnh. Yeah. <Open-cell door> ***. *** bastard. Hmmnh.
<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 25:36> <Clear-throat> J
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think they base it on the circumstance. But, you know what, dude?
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***.
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> *** in cuffs? Huh? *** out of hand cuffs ***. Youre here for murder. Im here for beating my old lady. Isnt he in for murder? Manslaughter. Theres a big difference, you know. They I
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<Close-cell door>
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Well, anyways, were charging you, because we know you did it. And
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Dont worry it. G Im fucking scared of my life, dude. This is bullshit. <Unintelligible background noises> <Sigh> G Theyre fucking tacking everything on my tail. Lying, <Sigh> G D G D They did? <No audible response> cheating, stealing.
I wonder what thats all about. Why does why does that <Chuckle>
even matter? D
Okay. So, you push the Downey one out the way. And now
them making up shit. G D G D happening.
Man, thats what
Theyre telling me theyre charging me for these. I understand that. Okay. You you knew that was Yeah. Okay. They must have something in common that makes
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them believe that that youre the guy. Now, it could be just the MO. Or it could be some kind of evidence like an eyewitness or DNA, or both <Sigh> D You know. You know? <Clear-throat>
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Thats what your attorneys gonna find out.
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you deal with the other ones. Listen, I wouldnt worry too much about
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They tell me I looked the first one in the eyes the witness.
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G D
<No audible response> <Unintelligible background noises> Hmnh. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 25:40: 25:43> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
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***. Huh, Hmnh. <Unintelligible background noises> <Water flow>
G D
Well, what are you facing, man?
You know what, man? I uh, everything should go as as I
which means that, if I <Flush-toilet> D
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> Ill probably get a year. ***, because its at the County, all Im <Cough> D D D G D G G G gonna have to do is like, uh, 25 percent
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Okay. This is how you do it. ***. Mmnh-mmnh.

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-- Which means three months. <Whisper> *** key *** Ill make a key, Do you think itll work? I know. All right. It might. I will ***uh. <Whisper> ***. Well, ***, right? <Whisper> Oh, yeah. You know what? If ***. Yeah, it would work.
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think its gonna go. Im probably gonna get, uh, uhm, a County lid, uhm,
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Okay. You stick it in there where
that little slot is. You stick it in there and move it up against that round circle. And just drag it around. Okay. G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D D D G D G G G ***. Yeah. Yeah--Yeah, yeah, yeah. ***. Mmnh-mmnh. *** flat. ***with it? You know what Im saying?
Yeah. Its a round circle with a little a little slot --
***. Put it in the slot and move it up and grab it. Itll work. Yeah. Yeah. Put it inside first. Then, move it around. Oh, we got a problem. Yeah, we got a problem. You gotta Shit. Cause you do know that fucking conference room ***. Right up there. Oh, is that where you went? Mmnh-mmnh. I dont know where that is but If you look this way, across the***. Oh, the one with the with the, uh the with the No, its around ***. Oh, okay. Okay. Cause ***. Yeah.
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get something stiffer than that.
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mirrored lining -- the mirrored glass, the conference room?
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Which conference room?
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*** Well, you know about that shit <Clear-throat>
than I do, air conditioning guy. D G D You have to pick a time. ***. Well, youre supposed to, if youre a K-10 youre High <Unintelligible background noises>
fucked up. Yeah, youre right, last night was. G D G D <Unintelligible background noises>
*** nothing to do with shit -- nothing. ***, dude. Okay. Well, *** only option you got, right?
people you dont even know?
They got eyewitnesses. Uh, youre gonna have a hard time explaining it. Can it be done? Yes, you can. Why? Youre a foreman. Or youre G D D G <No audible response> Okay. Thats enough. Right? <No audible response> Well, okay, so, we explain it away. You do like youre doing youre youre a heating electrical guy, right?
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right now, just fucking hammer at them. Hammer, hammer, hammer. Uh, no acting, uh, just fucking keep hitting em. No, no, no, no. no. Thats one way. Right? Its a hard way to go. Like I I dont know if Id do it. I probably would. I dont know. Uhm, -G D Dude, I cant believe *** all this shit. ***?
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I dont know. Lets look at it, though. They got your DNA.
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How do you fucking come up with an option on a person --
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Power, youre fucking locked up, dude. Its like they have to. They
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G D G D G D
*** case. Why dont you make a deal? <No audible response> Ill tell you. Fuck, Ill tell you something. *** make a deal? Uh, shit, you dont even know Well, no, I I meant absolutely, no. But, if I if I knew I <Cough>
was gonna get fucked, knowing that they got the goods on me D
-- And they had the goods on me, then, what I would do <Clear-throat>
fuck it. Let me tell you something. D
You know you know those you know all those girls that
families are calling those Homicide detectives every fucking day to find G D G D Mmnh-mmnh.
Okay. Its very, very stressful and a lot of pressure for those Why would I wanna sit in jail for the rest of my life, when I I wouldnt do any of it, dude. If you didnt do it, fuck it. Fight it
havent done anything?
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and make them prove everything. Thats what Id do. If you didnt do it, fucking make em prove G D meds? G No.
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man. Hey, you have you ever taken fucking meds? Like psych
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Theyll give me a fucking lifetime, even if you didnt do it,
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guys, Im sure. Okay. They are dying to clear cases.
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out what the hell happened to their their precious little daughter?
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were killed, they all have families. Okay. And you dont think those
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D G D G D G D
Never? Do do you ever feel like Maybe. Then, do you think maybe you could, uh, exploit that? Anxiety attacks *** defense. Hey, remember the guy that shot President Reagan? A guy Mmnh-mmnh.
you should?
named Hinckley.
You know what they did? You know you know, when he
went home for a well, hell, he might even be released. The guy that shot the fricking president, got out. And you you think he spent a day in prison? <Chuckle> D G D G D G D D G For how long? Huh?
No. He spent it in fucking he spent it in a psyche hospital.
For how long was he there? ***a long time, dude. But, my point to you is, if you didnt do it, then, fight it. ***. Why not? Fucking ***. You know what I mean? *** doing
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that shit ***. So, if youre a smart guy, and you know how to fucking play the game G D ***. You probably have, uh, maybe ***, you know, once in a while.
But, most of the time, its just bullshit, you know. Uh, I dont I dont think its ***. Yeah, Its nothing like High Power either.
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Fifteen years.
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G D G D G D G D way G D G D
Dude, I cant believe Im looking Well, then fight it, uh, you know, -*** for one little case. *** fight it off Fight fucking everything. If you didnt do it, fucking fight it. Oh, dude. One little case.
at a jail term for shit I didnt do.
But, if you did, start thinking start fucking thinking, man.
Start fucking thinking. Thats all I can tell you. Start thinking about a Why would I wanna lose my family? No, I understand that.
No, youre a businessman. Youre a smart guy. So, this is
what you do. If you did it, start thinking about say, okay, Fellas, Im say No, no, no, say Fuck it. Fucking everythings off the table. And theyll fucking jump at you. *** -- but, thats only if you did it. <Clear-throat> If you didnt do it, fight on. Dont you think my attorney would tell me what to do? Yeah, hell tell you what to do. When he meets with me? Yeah, hell tell you exactly what to do. Hell assess it and
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G G D
look at it. The only reason Im talking about it is that I get tired of I hear people I see people all the time that I talk to. And they they sit
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gonna make a deal. You do this for me, Ill do this for you. And if they
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A smart guy like me? Why am I gonna be dumb?
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Dont let them railroad you.
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around and let their attorney come up with a with a the the attorney come up with an alibi or or a story. And you figure they could probably, if theyre smart enough, make up a much better story. Thats all. But, if I didnt do it, Id let my attorney do almost everything. If do everything. G D G D G D Man, Im a hundred percent innocent. honestly, if I was if I was innocent of murder, I would let my attorney
Well, then, let your fucking make your attorney work earn A hundred percent. Yeah.
his fucking earn his earn his shit. Make him ***.
of one stupid case from my blood ***.
gonna be a long haul for you. But, I would not ever ever tell you to, uh, plead guilty to anything that you didnt do. Thats fucking bull-shit. Or they got shit thats gonna put you there I mean, I dont know what they have. But, if they do, uhm, you better start thinking of shit, one way or the other. D J even making a deal. Thats not fuck that. But, dude, if they got if
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<Unintelligible background noises/voices> That was a short visit. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Come on in. <Open-cell door> <Staley re-enters cell> <Transcript Time 25:54> That was a short visit.
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Mmnh. Make him make him earn it, then, you know. Its
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I cant believe theyre tacking this shit down on me, because
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Transcript*Time*25:54* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:42pm*
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S J J S J J J J
Thats right. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Hey. Hey, give me fucking Baker. Get him back over here. What? All right. Baker? Apparently, he is not done with you. ***. Are you coming? *** Hes coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on.
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Close-cell door> D D What the fuck? Huh.
<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 25:54>
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Chuckle> <Sigh> <Cough> G D D arrest me then?
If they have all this shit from years ago, then, why didnt they I dont know, man. I dont know. Thats all Im saying. Yeah. Theres no new developments. If they have witnesses from I dont know. I know. Theyre full of shit, dude. Theyre doing everything to
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the beginning what? They just have witnesses all of a sudden now?
plant *** on my ass because they have no other evidence. They find
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I guess his attorney had more to say.
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the one thats got the record and now all this shits going down, and they place it on him. Thats what happens all the time, dude. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D D G D G D When I knew my DNA was taken, why would I be dumb Man, <Cough> I dont know. ***. Maria Rodriguez, who the fuck is that? Who? Maria Rodriguez? I ve no idea, man. enough to go into into anyones house? Theyre so full of shit.
about it. Worry about the other ones, dude. Seriously, worry about, the, fucking, uh uh, whatever the LAPD one the the the El Monte one. Was there another? G D G D D G D G G <No audible response> Chicago, El Monte, LAPD I dont know. You said that Im fucking hungry, dude. Youre hungry? <No audible response> Did you eat those apples? <Chuckle> *** this one here, Im gonna eat it though. Then, eat it , dude. Good for you. Oh, my God. They said they had other detectives that wants
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Downey is fucking out of the picture. Fuck it. Its out of the picture.
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the ones that weve talked about. Worry about those the Chicago one,
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Well, then, dont fucking worry about it. Dont even worry
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to come and speak to me from Monterey Park. D G D G G Really? Yeah. All right. Now, another fucking case <Chuckle> Yeah
evidence and theyre gonna charge, because they have a witness, DNA. <Chuckle> G witness ***. D G uh, *** not not too likely, I guess. It doesnt make sense, huh? Whats the likelihood of a Well, you know, Im thinking, uh, if, uh if its done at night, If its for them to lie man and say this persons in a lot of
trouble with this many homicides. Might as well just say he did it, they wont let me go free. <Laughter> D gonna let go.
Yeah, man, theyre like dogs with bones, you know, they aint <Unintelligible background nosies /voices> So, what kind of what you, what you think, uh, what kind of I ve ***, dude. <Unintelligible background noises> If you decided to go that way, would you sa what which I could say I black out, I dont remember.
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mental, uh, problem do you got? Anxiety? G D G
one would you pick? Or which one are you?
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They all have the same story. They have my physical
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*** bi-polar, fucking manic Thenthen, they give you fucking medicine , cause Im <Chuckle>
depressive, -gonna start freaking out, cause youre not *** D you know. <UninteIligible background noises> D G D No, not if Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, what ***, man,
I mean, I dont I dont know what kind- what kind of ***got. Would you take medicines for shit that you werent? ***. No, well Ill tell you what. If if it was if it was that
choice, and youd be, uh, maybe, uh uhm, stay uh, spend the rest of G D G D G D G D D G D Ill have my attorney come up with a case *** . Ill have my attorney come up with a a plan that theyve Yeah. Its a tough one to prove, though, man. No way, man, theyre crooked. Its been on the news. Ah People-false line-ups. Detectives doing that detectives But, you know <Unintelligible background noises/voices> I m just trying to be real here. Ill like I try to They all have the same how the fuck could they have the I dont know.
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been throwing everything on me. That its LA and theyre crooked.
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doing that.
same evidence for every case?
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Im sorry. Youll have to say it again.
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my life in prison or worse, I might think about it.
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G D G D D G D G D before. G D
Its impossible. I dont know. They all have DNA? They said they had the same physical evidence for every I dont know. Maybe I dont know. I mean, you know I dont know. If they ha, if they had DNA and an eyewitness Every one they said they have witnesses. Witness could be Yeah. It doesnt mean that
case that link me to them. <Laughter>
mean anything. That, theyve seen me before.
So, yeah. Yeah. Thats right. You see, you you got it
seems to me, ***, uh, benefit of having a job like you have, and being in heating. G D D D G G G
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girls up. Right? Oh, God. hell, yeah. You know what theyre trying to do? Cause I used to pull up Bundy *** my wife ***. Shes doing the different
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Why would I be on the Better Business Bureau list then? I dont know. A Triple A rating. Yeah. A triple A rating the best if Im in so much trouble? Yeah, you get too busy doing other things to be out slicing
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plenty of peoples houses. Everybody needs air conditioning and
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Doesnt mean that they put me there.
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Yeah. Yeah. I know that guy, Ive seen them around here
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for every single one that seems kind of unlikely to me. But, --
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reports. They got that on my computer. So, thats what theyre trying to S G D know. G D know. <Laughter> G D And I ***. G D G D G D different stuff. Yeah. Maybe serial killers do what? Oh, like serial killers ***? Yeah. Yeah. Thats what theyre doing, man. Yeah, could be. Could be, you know. But, you know, I dont
You know what I mean? Look at the other peoples work, you
You, youve never looked up, uh, Bundy and all that shit?
Oh, is that right? For school? That was for her sake. Yeah. Yep, oh, Ill tell you what. They were smart little <No audible response> You gotta admire that. You got to admire the John Gottis, uh, Did John Gotti die ? Yes. When did he die?
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fuckers, though, those ones whose names are out there, right? G D G D G
too, man, the one with the serial murders, cause theyre smart crooks.
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Cause my wife was doing a report.
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I didnt know much about him. I just pulled him up just
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Oh, sure, you know, Ill watch watch documentaries on it.
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know. Maybe guys uh, uh, maybe serial killers do that shit. I dont
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Uh, awhile back fuck, five years
ago, something like that all I remember wa-was I thought it was cancer. Im not sure. <Sigh> G D G D G D Isnt that great? They all have all this physical evidence, but, Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean thats --*** <Laughs> theres no cuts on my hands, only one, no scars anywhere?
-- You know, I dont know. I dont know how they ***. He was looking at me like Let me see your left hand. Let me *** So what if you do? What if you have scars? You know, <Cough>
see your palm. Mmnh. youre youre a D G D G You have
Im just saying I dont thats the thing. But, even if you did, youre doing a job where youre *** in air I know. But, still, I dont thats the thing. <Unintelligible background noises> <Sigh> Where theyre gonna have me in fucking the prison now? *** Oh, okay. ***? Yeah. Phew, I dont know, man. See, now, theres theres thats
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G D G D
possible because if they feel they arent if theyre not just pulling your leg. Youre here. Youre not watching TV. Theyre not trying to scare you
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conditioning.
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if they put out a press release. Youre not watching. Everybody else has been but you. So I think what theyre trying to do is to get people to come forward. They feel they got enough to put out a press release then, wait for the phone calls to ring. Just a guess, cause it doesnt affect you personally. you know, and and well get him to come in and and, uh, -- uh, happening. Youre in here. I dont know. <Yawn> D G D G D G D G D G D My mom is dead. Really? Yeah. When did she die? How old was she? I mean, that you know, theyre not saying Ooh, were gonna scare him, confess to all these. Uh, cause you, you dont even know whats
What do your parents have to say about all of this shit, man?
Like two or three yr two years ago. Sixty-two.
Thats too fricking *** *** aneurysm because of the-high blood pressure What the hell, man? She was too young to die then. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> What cell are they gonna have me in jail? Theyre gonna Yeah. Theyll probably put you in High Power. In what? High Power.
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***constantly, tearing her door down every year, messing up the house.
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make it worse, huh?
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G D G D G D
Wheres that? down there? Uhm uh, -- uh, at, uh uh, whats it called? Central Jail. Thats where Ive been in High Power. Yeah. ***. <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> <Open-cell door> But, they put you down here.
<Staley re-enters cell.> <Transcript Time 26:09> U ***. <Close-cell door> D S D S D S S S D <Unintelligible background noises>
What the hell was that all about? Did, did your attorney have Yeah. I I gotta sign some fucking papers. Yeah. You know, I didnt we got to talking and I didnt fucking sign Uh-huh. So, he can get paid. Oh. Of course, hes gonna call me back for that ***. <Cough/clear-throat> Well, they got to *** some point in time, ***. I said So, what <Chuckle>
em when I walked back.
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do they got? I said Dude, what the fuck? I was hoping youd tell me. S Its hot in here.
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a second, uh uh, he forgot to tell you something?
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D S D S D S
Yeah. Its hot in the afternoon, get fucking warm get you to work. Oh, yeah. ***. Yep. <Yawn> Well, he, uh he got the paper work on the arraignment So, he doesnt know whats gonna happen with it?
bail reduction. D S D S D S D S Oh. Cool. Yeah. Then, what? Yeah.
So, if that happens, I might be able to make bail. Hmnh.
But, I dont know. Uh, they may you know, I dont think
just stroking me. D found guilty?
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nine. It aint gonna be three, cause I got prior shit. So, if Im lucky, it could be six. D S beat it.
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Did he tell you how much time youre looking at if youre <Yawn> No. Shit, dude, I could be I could be doing, uh, three, six or
Yeah, but, doesnt he think you can beat your fucking case? Well, ***, Im just saying if I get convicted of- I think I can
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theyre gonna give me a fucking bail to be honest with you. I think hes
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Well, fuck then maybe Ill get out here.
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today. Uhm, hes gonna see about getting me fucking a bail deviation,
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D S D S D S
***. You know what? Thats a Yeah. Oh, Ill fight it. ***. -- Yeah. Cause thats a fist fight, man. Oh, Ill go with a fucking self-defense thing, man. This shit was four four and-a-half years ago. There aint Yeah.
to me, thats a case, uh, worth, uh worth fighting right there, because
begin with, so D D D Yeah. <Clear-throat> You guys, you know what? <Cough>
You see the you see boxers getting uh, you know, during
fucking end up dying, later S guys D S D S
Yeah. Well, thats, you know uh, yeah, I Im sure theres
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you go outside. Somebody throws a punch. Yeah. Well, the good news is they cant interview that <Laughter> <Clear-throat> D Thats true.
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mother fucker.
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Yeah.
-- Getting paralyzed and shit, too. Yeah. But, youre out, you know, youre drinking in the bar,
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some kind of an exception if somebody goes - its like football and the
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during the boxing match, uh uh, if one of them go down, and and
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gonna be nobody around remember *** cause nobody was around to
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<Unintelligible background noises> You got that right. <Yawn> Homeboy tell you about, uh you know, the police Yeah. Fu-u-ck. Well, you know **** he, uh, was scared Yeah. Nobody wants to get the needle. <Cough/clear-throat> Me? Mmnh. department *** showing up?
Yeah. Been to Mexico lately? No, Im just if things get too fucking shitty Yeah, you wanna go? -- I may, yeah Yeah, well -- Retire down there, you know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. When are you planning on getting up there? Whats that? Well, you mean, when you get out of jail? No, I mean, if it fucking if I get convicted and theyre gonna
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Ah, no. Its been years. Why?
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Uhm, when was the last time you were down in Mexico?
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give me Ill get hit with nine years, phew, fuck that. Prob-probably gonna go to Mexico, cause, uh G S Huh? Uh, well, both Im trying to get out on a you know, on a,
uh, OR or bail or something like that. And, uh, -- if its looking like shit D S D S D S D S D S Yeah, yeah. And you can do a lot for yourself.
live that, uh Yeah. Yep.
-- You know, like behind those compounds and shit --- To where they I mean there-- Americans retire Yeah, the Mexican government doesnt care. I mean, they Just gotta stay out of fucking trouble, man. <Cough/clear-throat>
down there. They buy property and shit.
dont care about *** us *** this country anything. Yeah, thats the problem. If you get 50 years in a Mexican prison, man, thats 50
fucking years. It aint, uh, 50 years and one day, or 49 years and 364,
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you know. And it it is ***. This would be like a presidential palace *** down there. Ive got thrown in down there a long time ago, when I was a kid, down TJ. Stupid. <Chuckle> S D Its fucked. Alotta kids do that. <Yawn>
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You know, they got a lot of places down there that Americans
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during the trial, fuck, Ill just go on down south.
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S D S
Take all your fucking money. Yeah. Probably attorneys are shit *** *** bail, they dont even call you. Fuck it, they give you a
phone call. And they and then, they rob your fucking -- whoever comes to get you, and take all their fucking money. And then, they kick you <Clear throat> <Unintelligible background noises heard> S G S G D S you know? G S S D S D D If you ***. <Sigh> But, its a good place. Whats that? Those bars. Oh, dude, that looks tough. loose.
If we fucking pulled down *** we could break those bars.
I mean, how are you gonna do that with the camera, dude,
Well, uhm, Im not saying that you never ***. But I dont know how you get through that shit. The Im telling you dude that is steel or iron. Yeah. And its not <Cough/clear-throat> -- And its not this pole ***. All those windows are reinforced <Unintellible background noises>
windows are easy. Its the bars. You probably had to take
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with ,uh stainless steel kind of mesh. S Yeah.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 there. .
G D G D S D S the ***. D S D S G D D
Dude, but, Im talking about these Okay. But, just like the other ones. They paint em? Yeah, just painted. Theyre just painted so you cant look out. Im sure they are.
Exactly the same.
Probably the same all the way down.
Yeah. I think theres an easier way to get outmmnh, if you I think he does. Like what? <Sigh> Tsk, well, look
processed, in downtown, you know, off the bus, some weaknesses in S S
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Did you tell him about the interview room? ***. Well Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> Well, the *** talked to me. Whats that? Where are the flaws? Well, you know what I mean? When you hope that, uh, -424
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really wanted to.
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Look to see how these bars got this cross part right here on
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when I *** the bar, ***the bus, and, you know, things like that, theres ***, you know, you can you can you can do it. You know, *** you look around, you can see shit. Uh, you know and of course theres the old wristband swap, you know, you know, I mean, saying Yeah, you know you know, and some other guys going to***. D You know, that happens all the time probably. Theres so <Cough>
in the L.A. County Jail system. G D S Uh-uh. Yeah. <Clear-throat> S D S D S S
Okay. ***. Im sure they mistakes all the time down there.
<Unintelligible background noises> mean, you gotta have somebody thats *** outside. You know, *** you get out of here, Whos gonna give you ***. You need a support group. <Clear-throat> Cause what happens is this. Lets just say, for example <Clear-throat> -- You get out of this place. *** around here. Theyre gonna Bloodhounds. Huh? Bloodhounds. Yeah, dogs and all the other shit.
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set up roadblocks and and helicopters and all that shit. D S D S
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many people. You know, you see how many people there are down in
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<Cough> If youre still here, they got a pretty good chance of grabbing ***. But, I mean, youre taking a chance with that, because, you your ass. But, if you get in a car, and fucking split, theyre
Im saying? And youre talk <Clear-throat> <Clear-throat>
Youre talking about *** or something like that.
You know, thats a thats gonna be a tough one. Youre
youre better off trying to get somebody, you know, to come and get you. I mean? If youve got somebody, I mean, on this, whos gonna help you <Cough/clear-throat> <Chuckle>
Its pretty hot *** over in the sun. Huh. Its hotter than shit, Im baking, yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> Maybe sit over there, *** man. Im all right, dude. Uh, I dont ***, you know. *** locked up, I Oh, by the way, this hallway out here, that is a keypad that at Uh-huh. They they have keys, too, though. But, I dont know if the
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was fine. Im used to being ***. the end to get out.
keys, that the jailers have, open up this door. But, Im telling you, theres
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out, then, you know for sure they are going to be there.
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You cant be sure that a pickup truck is gonna come by. You know what
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know, the chance is unless you know whos driving ***. You know what
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a keypad behind this door right here. D S G S D G D G S D S ***. *** on the other end of the hall, too. Yeah, but, that *** girl is with the camera. Mmnh-mmnh. ***. Hmn? *** big red button is it?
kinds of shit. *** the button. *** girl. Oh-- ***. Oh. Oh, okay. Well
see who shes opening the door for. <Cough/clear-throat> S G S G D D G *** at night. Yeah. Well. ***.
It may be on the outside.
*** trouble. <Whisper>
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person one one jailer comes to the door. Have to do it quiet. G D How hard is that ? I dont know. Look. I got a pretty good arm. You know what
I mean? I I I cant slip I cant stake my paycheck on the fact that *** out on the first punch. G Can you?
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I just dont know how wed do it, man. When you get one
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So that means that means theres a camera, so she can
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Theres a big red button. ***, that sets off the alarms and all
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Transcript*Time*26:22* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:10pm*
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Well, you gotta hit -- well, you
know, fuck here *** hit him in the right spot on that. I dont know. I mean, I can *** to the spot. I just think, dude, that a full-on deal like that, isnt gonna be as successful like what youre talking about over there with the handcuff thing. I think thats a smart fucking idea there, G S Id never get the chance ***. because, I mean,
are going, shit, you might get three or more fucking whacks added. You know what I mean? You dont how many fucking ***. Depending on ***, today. But, tomorrow, may be another story, you know. D S D D G S Court? You got court. <Clear-throat> And, uh, trying to think of something else
Youre gonna be going to court. Right? <No audible response> Heres another problem. Heres another deal. Those guys
that talked to you today, theyre gonna come back and talk to you, again. All right. I can guarantee theyre not just gonna show up empty-handed. theyre gonna be coming at you, again. Theyre gonna let you sit there
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and think about that shit. And theyre coming back and gonna give you a chance to, you know, come back around or whatever. So, youre youre gonna get into trouble, man. ***. <Unintelligible background noises> <Cough/clear-throat> D S Man, you wont be surprised next time. Yeah, *** be fucked up last night with that ***.
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You dont know that dude cause the fucking way things
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G D
They fucked me ***. You know, they -- *** I-I-I promise you, they *** speaking ***,
because, uh, you know, you got a certain security level on ***. You gotta be fucking *** handcuffs. S D S Yeah, thats why they only handcuffed us. They should be Yeah. Uh, maybe. I dont know. I dont know what the cutoff I dont know either. I know why theyre handcuffing you, <Cleaer-throat> S handcuffing me, though.
because of all this shit.
You got them all fucking creeped up and shit about it. Ugh
fucking run which they could. <Laugh> G S couldnt. G D Whatd you say?
They could catch me if I fucking had run. You, they probably ***. But, uh, *** but, the El Monte guys were like We know Yeah.
youre fast, and powerful.
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They said ***. <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises> D G D Man, I wish I had a knock-out punch. In the throat. Mmn?
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Youre not gonna do nothing, though, are you? I said No.
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Plus, they could probably think they could probably catch me if I had
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 cars?
G D G D S G S
You him em in the throat. Oh, in the throat? Yeah. ***. Yeah. Thats true. I hit a guy in the throat one time, and I denied it. I missed. I Yeah.
I caught him right underneath the chin here. Fuck, man, he went down. D S G D G D S D G D S Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> I went, uh when I was a kid
*** fucking ***. Yeah. ***.
You might as well turn on the lights while youre doing it. I know. Its not ***. <Laughter> *** Plus, shell be able to hearem, too, cause theyre you hear Yeah. People would be talking about that one for a while. Yeah, take it all the way to Mexico. Yeah. Go right to the border with the siren on.
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the radio. D S D S
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I dont know.
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Where do thewhere do they keep the keys for the cop
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was just hitting in the head, in the face. And he fucking leaned back and
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<Laughter> Thatd be cool. Get the fuck out of the way. Get on the fucking ***, dude, ***tracking devices on those cars. Shit, by now, they figured out whose car it was and shit, how <Cough/clear-throat> <Chuckle>
Get the fuck out of the way. ***.
Its the one hauling ass out of *** down TJ. Its the one not in El Monte anymore. Yeah, I know. Goes about 120.
Yeah. Fuck it, if you got a cop car, and you got a siren and Yeah, yeah I think so. And maybe even maybe even quicker, Yeah, if theres no traffic, yeah. But, you can shit, you Wouldnt they stop you at the border, though? Well, you know what? me, personally, I wouldnt try to cross
because ***. could take the
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the border to Id just take it around the corner and stop it, get out and walk across is what Id do, cause, you know, once youre there, I mean, G D G D Without an ID? Huh? You dont need an ID or *** ? Oh, I dont think so.
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lights on it, you could be to the Mexican border in probably two hours.
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would you know, you know?
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Not to go into Mexico. But,
coming out of Mexico, back here, --Yeah, you need to have papers and shit. But, not to go south. <Yawn> D G S D G D S Thats part of the problem. People go down there. And they ***people ***. <Whisper> Well <Clear-throat> *** dont bring any shit. And theyre *** shit.
You saw that big motherfucker here last night. I I know that. Hes a big motherfucker. I dont know what See, my thing is, I I think theyd be coming to you if you
if you got out of here, how do you get cause that door Im not sure whats on the other side of that door. I think that door is going to the D G D D S G Listen, I dont want to get shot. Cause, you know who wants *** outside. to fucking die.
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here 24 hours a day. <Cough/clear-throat> S And Im sure theres some kind of a I dont know if they got
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Mmnh? Where are they gonna be coming from? I dont know. Shit, it is a fucking police station, dude. Theres cops around
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were right here. But, I I dont see how you could get out of here. And,
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hes, you know, -- I dont know what hes doing.
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panic buttons everywhere and they got cameras everywhere. And I dont know who fucking I can almost guarantee you theres some kind of a dispatch person here whos got <Yawn> D S Theres got to be. -- All the jail shit, fucking parking lot cameras and looking at
the lobby cameras. This this place here, they got some pretty good cars and shit, those are pretty high-tech shit they got. So, they got money. *** know you know, my I think your idea of the of the
building is probably, by far, the best, because once you make the scene, like this what youre talking about here -- once you make the scene, its of that, from in here, is pretty slim. Over there, theyre in theyre in a G S G S G S *** five five minutes or so. Five minutes? Yeah, they had me cuffed to the chair. Well, yeah, but, you got the fucking answer to that. *** And, you know what, they may not cuff you. next time, either. <Clear-throat> if youre gonna go over there *** once ***or whatever, or if gotta go in forward direction until you are out of here. And the likelihood room by themselves. How much time would they give you by yourself?
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they do, they may not lock em, ***. You know what, dude, about the locks. If they lock those cuffs ***, can you still ***-D I dont, I dont know. I was thinking about I dont know. I think he had I think it takes something pretty stiff like metal, like a
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money in El Monte. They got some you know, if you look at the cop
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paper clip or or maybe a staple or something. I think so. <Cough> S G D G D G D door. D G D S G D D D S G S G G they took me. circle like that. ***? I dont know. But, uh Have you ever been to the questioning rooms over there with Uhm-uh. Oh, the attorney rooms? Yeah.
How many are there? Do they have some here in the jail? Have you have you been across the way? No. I I had a I had the interview room right here next Yeah, they took me down at the end of the hall here is where They took me across the way. And theres a little little *** Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah.
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and chairs Yeah. -- And all that shit?

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Mmnh. *** on me. Mmnh. You think they have cameras? Probably. Does--Does it look like an interview room? Its got a table
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your attorney?
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G S S
Yeah. It could be, yeah. <Clear-throat> But, again, you know, whos gonna whos sitting there
looking at that while theyre in there interviewing, you know? I mean, its But, fucking they will find out how you got out of there. But, by that time, shit, you know. So D S D S D G S G S A margarita. Yeah. Mmnh-mmnh.
Yeah, thats what I meant to say margarita. I havent been to fucking Hussongs in years. <Unintelligible background noises>
Its so easy, man, you just get out, step on the handle of the That parts good. But, where do you go from there? You I get in a car. Well, yeah, rip somebody out of their car? Yeah. Thats a ***. What? Ripping someone out of a car. Oh, yeah, not a cop car ***. No, no. Just -- you know, somebody out on the street. Yeah. Yeah.
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door and hop up. gotta think about that.
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good idea. G D S D S D
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fuck, you know, youre ordering a fucking martini down at Hussongs and
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probably got a camera somewhere. Its probably taped or whatever.
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And you need a car thats, you <Chuckle>
know, -- you dont want a pink Volkswagon or nothing. S S S G S G S G S G S G S G D Grey you know Grey Nissan where theres a million of em. <Yawn> <Sigh> wife and kids are. Ah, shit.
*** house ***. Thats *** my car. They dont know about. Take the car that you *** him and dump it somewhere and let Mmnh-mmnh. Oh, yeah.
her pick you up in her car?
Yeah. Would she do that?
Yeah? Good girl. Keep that one. Theres no ***. *** here. *** Yeah. *** . Whats that?
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somewhere else? G D S Gotta do it from that room. How you gonna get over there, though? Theyre gonna come and interview him. And they always
take him over there across the way.

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<Cough> So, how youre gonna do it. Are you gonna do it from here or
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If you do that, theyre gonna go to your house where your
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D Today? S G S D G D G me? Sh. S G S
When are they gonna ***? Dude, hes been fucking yanked outta here. You were gone. *** What if they dont do it? Hmn? What if they dont yank you out anymore?
*** they fucking yanked him out three times. *** like two or three times.
Yeah, they said trust me. Why would Downey come after Theyre gonna come and get you again. May not be today. They may they may come after him and come talk to him
because he didnt say anything. About ten , fifteen minutes trying to spend any time talking to em. They just sat down and said their shit and D S Oh. he didnt talk.
gonna work on him.
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that doors open. ***.

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So, they brought him back. So, theyre gonna theyre Yeah. Maybe theyll take him back over there in that room Yeah. Yeah. Get up there and look, dude. Look straight across. See,
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tomorrow or the next day. But, theyre gonna come talk to him again,
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I mean, *** come at me for.
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G S G S G S G S G S
Just look straight ahead. Is that the one with the big mirrors-- windows? Yeah. Is that the one ***? No. I go a little bit behind there. <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah, right under there. Yeah. Yeah. <Clear-throat> <Cough> Where that tower is?
Oh, okay. Yeah, *** the streets over that way, right?
<Unintelligible background noises heard> G S G D D G D G D G Yeah. Thatll take you right in there. Youd have to drop ***. Yeah, ***. <Cough> ***, left. Oh, yeah. Huh? To the left. Oh, Im looking at okay. See the left? Oh, I see yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, thats okay. Yeah. The doors wide open. Yeah. Thats interesting.
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Does that building go out to the street?
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Hey, is thereis there a gate <Unintelligible background noises>
down here? *** S G S ***. ***? Yeah. **. Yeah. Well, I think youre right. Better to get out here than try
and get out at the County. The County is just too fucking ***. I mean, kinda blend in with somebody G D G S *** we should talk a little quieter. You think so?
Theyre standing right there, they can sneak up on you.
fucking keys around that belt though. S G S G D
You could hear them coming with those keys in the hallway. ***. Yeah.
<Clear-throat>
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warm as it was yesterday. I was dying yesterday. Yeah, its not quite as bad. But, you know what? <Clear-throat>
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*** you got your ***. Yeah. <Unintelligible background noises> <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> This sandwich is pretty good, actually. I dont think its as
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Okay. You know, you can hear them coming with those
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that If you get out of County, then, its a lot harder to do. You gotta
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S D
The sun is still got a couple Yeah. <Clear-throat/cough> <Unintelligible background noises>
more hours creeping on that wall, too.
today? <Cough/clear-throat> G D D S D S S thats got S S D S <No audible response> <Clear-throat>
They come at you today? Santa Monica? I wonder why? Everybody else did.
They probably already had their say in. <Sigh>
And that guy they, uh -- Youll probably hear about it. Theres a dude Downtown <Clear-throat> They let him go accidentally***-Hmnh. He walked out. Took his, uh his fucking shirt off. Mmnh-mmnh. Called a cab-cab picked him up and took him to his fucking
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house. The cab driver never fucking noticed that he was fucking, you know, inmate *** -440
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<Unintelligible background noises/voices heard>
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The Santa Monica PD-uh police come back and talk to you
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G S S cause ***. G S S
*** breathing *** or something? Uh, there was uh*** orange or some shit but and, uh <Cough> -- Theyre theyre gonna try to ***. But, they couldnt, <Cough> Did the guy get away ***. <Cough>
But, they fucked up and released him. And he was a
Mexican or something named it was Jose Rodriguez. And there was like you know, probably like than 25 in the jail and they grabbed the <Clear-throat> <Sigh> S D S S S D D wrong one.
<Unintelligible background nosies> Down there, theres so much movement. Thats where the Yeah. weakness is in County.
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Thats thats the biggest weakness down there. Not like here. They got you one-on-one. <Cough> S ***. Its fucking youre just one of thousands. Follow the
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In the County. Uh, yeah, I know that. Theres so many people moving back and forth. Yep. You dont know whos who. Yeah, thats its hard to for them to keep track of everybody.
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That was at, uh, -- it was Downtown somewhere ***.
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white line. Follow the red line. Follow the blue line. Fuck, those could go for miles. The red line guy ends up on a blue line. You know, he said Fuck it. I got lost. And they just send him back to where hes supposed to be. But, you get ***. G S G S G D S S G S Hmn. The key down there is to get trustee. Yeah, all these guys *** youre crazy, dude. <Cough/clear-throat> want get trustee. crazy, dude.
But, no, seriously. But, if you know the trustee, if they trust What do you mean? Scope it out.
you, then, you know, have them do you some little recon and shit.
Here, I think Ill make a trustee <Chuckle> huh. Ill tell you what, though. Those trustees theyre supposed to be guys who dont have
any uhm, big charges and stuff. But, there was a dude that I knew
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who was down there. And he was a trustee. They had him on some little dope thing. That mother fucker done time for murder. But, thats not what he got arrested for, he just got arrested for some stupid shit that was, you know, dumb shit. D S Yeah. And they gave him trustee based on this charge. And they
they didnt check his background to see who the fuck what he had
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been doing. They got that mother fucker pushing and scooting up and down the hallway with a mop whos a straight-up fucking killer. I was like Ssh. D S D S ***. I mean, he he didnt do shit. But, he wouldnt do ***. Yeah, he could, you know. But, he didnt he wasnt looking He couldve
hes a hard-looking dude. Hes a hes a full-on AB guy. Big old shamrock tattoo on his chest and shit. D S No, shit?
Yeah. He hes a fucking hes fucking Im surprised they <Clear-throat>
cops down there took one look at him and said Hey, come here. Cause he was a trustee for about a week. And then, he was done. He <Cough> S was gone. I know he had some fun ***
with the Arian tattoos. Those are gonna you want to be friends with
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those guys. U S D S D S Hmnh. Getting hot over there, yet? Mmnh-mmnh. ***. ***. You know, I slept I slept like shit last night. Youre gonna be the only guy coming out of the jail with a tan.
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But, he *** at county ***, you know. And you see those guys
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at no time or nothing. So, he wasnt gonna fuck around with it. Yeah,
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D S D S D S D S D S D S D S D S D S D U S D S D
Yeah. *** though. ***. I slept all right. I just kept waking up, and fucking coughing, Yeah. What do you do for a hobby, man? Hey stretch, okay. Hey stretch, what what do you do for a hobby? Oh, I go fishing. Fishing, huh? Hmn. How about you? I like to lake fish. Huh. I do ***. Thats cool. <Cough/clear-throat> Hmn?
Saltwater fishing. Yeah. But, I dont do that very often.
Go to movies and shit. <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. Yeah. I like going to movies and shit. *** <Cough/clear-throat> My old lady, we always go back and forth. She likes all those Yeah. ***. Yeah, thats typical all right. Hmnh. Thats my old lady, too. The feel-good movies.
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chick flicks. And I like all the fucking scary gory shit.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D them soon. S S D S D S D
<Chuckle> Thats all right, though. Thank God for DVDs, huh? Mmnh-mmnh. Dollar Tree Rentals. There you go. You just gotta wait forever for the new ***. Mmnh-mmnh. You know, the Bou- -- uh, what is it? The
Bourne, uh, movies? The Bourne Supremecy? Uh, have you seen S D S D S D S D S Yeah. Those are pretty bitching. Yeah. I like them. Yeah. The Matrix. A lot of action in them.
Yeah, thats another good one. Those are pretty good, uh, special effects. Yeah. Yep, I like those movies. Im looking forward to seeing Have you ever seen that ***? Yeah. *** That was one ***. But, uh, ***. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Hmnh. ***. Hmnh? ***. *** the that, uh, Wayside down there ***, uh, ***. <Clear-throat>
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They used to show movies. The deputies would bring them in and plug them into each dorms got TV in it.
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those?
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D S D S D S
Like living rooms? Yeah, they bring in they they plug it in up at the office. Yeah? And it plays on all the TVs. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, uh, the guys that, uh, worked, uh, the graveyard shift, *** <Clear-throat>
bringing different shit. D S fuck, dude. D S D S D S Yeah. Thats cool, man.
Theyd bring us like slasher movies and all that shit. Like,
staring with a chainsaw.
Shit, trying to sleep here. tsk, <Sound effects> ***. Yep. Thats funny. A lot of good clean fun. They had uh- they had this fucking deputy up there that
everybody be screaming.
mnh, he used to he used to hell he had a video on how to castrate
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pig farmer. Like he used to show that fucking thing all the time. Good God. <Laughter> D S Castrate the pig? Yeah.
446
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What? Yep. It was an instructional video. He was some kind of a
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*** Yeah, thats fucking yeah.
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You try to sleep and fucking theyre all there watching Jason
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D S D S D S D S D G S S D G D S S
Oh, yeah. Fucking pig you got the trustee holding the pig shut and Huh. Fucking makes me squirm just thinking about it. <Unintelligible background noises> Theyd show that? Yeah, theyd show that video. Yeah. Nice. Did they turn the A/C on? Sounds like, huh? Yeah.
his mouth shut. And
To to whatever how many thousand inmates or whatever?
<Unintelligible background noises> <Chuckle>
Yeah, open up the door? While you were sleep, he came through in here with a mop, Oh, I didnt even notice. Yeah didnt say shit. Was it one of the jailers? I dont know. I couldnt tell. They dont have trustees here, I No. Unless hes in a jail. <Cough/clear-throat>
447
like a dust mop.
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D D S D
guess.
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I wonder what were they doing?
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Yeah, It didnt last long.
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S D D S D S D S D S D S oneliners. D D
They only have those at at, uh, Oh, okay. Yeah. <Yawn> I like those James Bond movies, too. I love those fucking *** movies. Mm-hm. I like Clint Eastwood. Heartbreak Ridge. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Sheriffs places.
Yeah. Yeah. He hes hes the king of cool, man.
All those fucking spaghetti westerns he did. The Dirty Harry movies and shit. Theres some great <Clear-throat> <Yawn>
Yeah. Yes, he did.
Man, I hope my old lady comes down and visits me again
tonight. Or she gets the-- I dont know if she get the watch commander to let her in here , but uhhow she gets ***.
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D S D S
pissed off at her or be having ***.

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In this place, she might. Thats what Im saying. <Clear-throat> It worked last night. Thats what I am saying ***. I I wouldnt know whether -- I wouldnt know whether to be
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D D S D know. S D G D G D
Nah. <Laughter> Yeah. No, shes a good girl. A good girl? Man, youre ass is sitting in here because of Yeah. Well, I know, now that I know the end of this, you Yeah, now its okay. *** <Clear-throat> And she dropped charges. Still, man, for you to land up in jail? You do?
I know. But, you know what? I wanna go back her. So I do, yeah. Yeah, I I know I talk shit and but, you know,
Fuck you, Im out of here? G D G D No.
I dont fight with women. Oh, ok. Yeah, I just I did it. I mean, you know you know, <Cough> D -- Jerry Springer show. And uh, I swear up and down
***. And fucking its a full-on
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that Im not fucking go back and next thing I fucking know. How do you not fight with fucking girls, dude? G D G I dont uh, I dont waste my time, man. Waste your fucking time? I mean, look. They say things A girl starts to fight; I walk out.
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You fucking leave?
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how many times you ever have fucking fight with a woman you dont say,
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D G D G D G D G D G D S D G D S S S D S
They do things different than we It doesnt matter. I walk out. I dont pay a Like I said I dont Yeah, but, doesnt that piss them off? They dont fucking hold it over your head or fucking talk shit? Later on, though. Thats true. Why do you *** going there? <Chuckle>
pay attention to women like that, man. They get pissed. But, let em get pissed.
***. You walk. You take off. They they cant do nothing.
Yeah. Yeah. *** front lawn, right. You walk. You dont say nothing. They just get mad at Yeah, thats true. Well, you know, I never thought of that. Better man than Iam, I cant do that shit *** Yeah, we got to fucking fire right back, man. ***she starts talking shit *** and start get ***my back. <Clear-throat/cough> If I walked out out, *** my motherfucking truck would be on ***. Shit, *** be sitting there in the middle of the street--on fire.
450
But, I always thought, you know, --
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fire.
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themselves. For what?
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Come back and *** chill.
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Fucking demons now got a cell phone.
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When youre when youre gone, how can they?
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D S G about. D G D G S D
Mmnh, funny shit. Mmnh. <Unintelligible background noises> Youve got to be crazy, I would think, you could get away with
lying and trying to make me on another case that I dont even know Well, you dont have anything to worry about, man, cause, But, why I promise you, ***. ***. But, why did they come to me? ***
heard it from him, uh, if its like a big old effort, like they said Hey, lets fuck with him, which I dont think so uh, or they got something on you. What, who knows? big fish to them. In fact, you probably are. But, I dont know what their what their reasoning behind ***. I dont know. G Its just like ***. And they link them all together and just try to <Cough> Its gonna take more than that, dude. Its gonna take more S I dont know. That they I mean, you know, maybe youre a
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put it on one person. D
than that to to convict you of those crimes. Okay. Look, you do one. The Santa Monica one, hey, you did it. But, everything else youre gonna have to prove each individual one. And thats all. They have to. They could throw it on there. Take it down to the District Attorneys
451
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they just did one right after the other either they all got together and
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-- *** you know, I think you heard it from me, and I think you
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man, I promise you
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Office and file it. But, that doesnt mean youre convicted. S U S G needed. <Unintelligible background noises> D G D G D G D D D G D G D G G they got a DNA. They got they got to prove each and every count. It doesnt Yeah. Maybe theyre doing that just because a confession is matter how many they throw in. Each each one they have to prove. So, they might be wasting their time.
Maybe. Well, I cant imagine why a confession is needed, if DNA just puts me there. It doesnt mean I did it.
and who knows if they really did have an eyewitness or not. eyewitnesses.
Do you know what theyre talking about when you said some Yeah, I used to talk to him all the time. So, he knows you? Mmnh-mmnh. Did he ever catch you looking in somebodys window? Uhn-uhn. Why would they say that? All I know is *** with with anyone. No one told *** that. ***. So, hes not gonna ***. So, whats the big deal? It isnt.
452
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old man or something lived downstairs?
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Man, they can make up anything and and make a false
ib
Okay. It puts you there. But, if you have an eyewitness
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G D G D G D G
Hes saying ***. It doesnt mean nothing. Nothing to be afraid of fucking seeing if someones home. Come on, dude. No. Yeah, Its American. Yeah, youre right. Nothing to worry about, man. this. Theres nothing wrong with that, like what they are saying. Im telling you, by the end of this, the *** are gonna be like <Unintelligent background noises/voices>
D G D G picture. D G D S S G S G G G
Tssh. Why? What are you saying that for? How do you know? Cause they told me. ***. <Cough/clear-throat>
They had my picture and they had a knife right near my Really?
Oh, my God.
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Thats fucked up. It looks like a machete. Did they say that that knife was Mine. -- Yours? Yep. Mmnh-mmnh. They said they have physical evidence on it and that I used
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gloves. You could use gloves. But, it doesnt matter. Weve got your physical evidence on the body. <Sigh> G D S U S Theyre so full of shit. Ill tell you what happens. *** gloves, you dont get prints. Hmn Well, unless your hair fell out, huh?
--And when you get if you have em on for a long time, and
you sweat--the sweat drips out of the fucking glove. They may have that. So, thats thats got DNA shit on it, too. But, if S G D G D G D D S D G Even if youve never touched a knife? ***. If they have Yeah.
Well, that I dont know about the knife. But, if if Youre talking about that Downey case again, brother? You dont have to worry about that case. Im just saying. Its fucking unreal how they could just come Are they gonna file charges? Did they tell you? Yeah. But, you know what? Id Id wait and see. ***, bring it on. That *** read me my rights. Mmnh. Well, that doesnt mean nothing. That doesnt mean
to me and throw stuff on me.
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G G
anything. They just they just wanna they just wanna they just wanna be able to talk to you without having to worry about, you know,
454
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But, when youre when you sweat
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losing, confession or something in in court. Thats all that is. Thats all. But, that doesnt mean youre guilty. S D S I know. How many times ***-You gotyou gotta look at and Im here to tell you there
jury is gonna think. <Cough/clear-throat> S
Thats the whole thats where it comes all down to is what
that jury is gonna think. Did they say anybody tell you where theyre gonna where theyre gonna try you? in any particular place? G S that? G D G D them two. G one in Santa Monica. theyre saying? Uhn-uhn. Is it gonna be Downtown? Is it gonna be here? Anything like They just told my attorney I had two other cases, after this So, are they are they saying theyre all alike? Is that what Yeah.
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theres a witness that seen me. Thats impossible, dude. Unless they set it up to have witnesses, its impossible. Whats the likelihood of someone seeing the same person D So, there saying <Cough>
455
come out the the seven uh, five different places? You just see him?
ls
Is that what the deal is? You know, theyre all related to
All theyre saying is theyre all stabbing deals. And *** and
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are a lot innocent people sitting in jail. You gotta worry about what that
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***.
D G D G D S
Look And especially if the persons wearing a mask. Yeah? Uh-huh. Its impossible, then. <Cough> Im just saying if they did. If you wore a mask, its impossible. Unless you unless its They may be able to say they saw somebody coming out with
taken off, you know. Uh
with a mask on he might be able to describe the mask. You know, <Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D G uh, a photo line-up. *** didnt didnt
You know, theyre saying they picked out of a photo line-up
They never had me in the center. They always had me in the bottom left or right corner. D G D Whats that mean? Does it have to be in the center? Do you understand who it it was it was on the news. It Mmnh-mmnh. No, I hadnt heard. But, -Oh, yeah. Thats the first when you put down a photo line-
was faulty photo line-ups. And cops are being prosecuted for that.
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up, wheres the first place you look? In the corners. Left to right, right to left. D G D I go left to right. There you go. So, if Im in the bottom left, the first person Yeah, I see what youre saying. Yeah.
456
youre gonna see is me and say Oh, yeah.
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But, did you notice how they had me in the photo line-up?
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<Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> And they put me up against being all tired and fucked up. To make you stand out? <Sigh> were looking at. Do you know this person? And hes wanted for this D G D But, before, they theyd say Hey, this is the person that
Yeah. They whisper in their ear and they got their mind set. Theyre crooked, man.
Thats fucked up.
Well, youre biggest problem is right now is, you know, if
wouldnt have these problems right now. D G D G D G D D *** that work? ***. Well, how is it? They had not seen me, --
The person doesnt know me.
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nothing.
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that werent similar to the other ones, so similar that they think, Huh, it must be the same guy. G Thats what Im saying.
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I said whats the deal with Santa Monica. ***. My blood there thats it nothing else. No one theres So, that person doesnt know your face? <Cough/clear-throat> *** blood there that put you there, you got problems. So, if
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I was not seen.
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you hadnt if you hadnt been seen at the, uh, Santa Monica one, you
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many homicides.
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D G D S news ***. D G D S D
Not when you think about it Thats what they did. Thats what they did. Thats why they Maybe theres a copycat.
being put yourself in the detectives shoes and are all after me, man. Thatd be that generally doesnt happen unless its on the Yeah, thats true. Thats true. What? But
Copycat stuff doesnt happen unless its all over the news. The the, uh Ill tell you what, though. If if he were
got a problem. S G D Yeah.
Well, I know it was on the Internet, right? You were talking
said the cops took out your fucking computer or something? G J
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G S J D G J
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Yeah, they burned my computer. And they ***. <Unintelligible background noises> ***. Thank you. Thank you. Youre welcome. Itll be hot. Be careful. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you very much. Mmnh-mmnh.
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about pulling up on the after the the El Monte one. And thats you
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Do they have this shit on the news?
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wearing a mask, and the people are saying that he looked like you, you
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G S D S U D G D G D G D D G D S
Oh, thanks bro. <Unintelligible background noises> Bread Bread? Man, who wants to give me a bread? ***. Its hot. Well, then, lemme tell ya. Ha, I just dont get it, dude. Okay. So <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
They just pulled -You know what it is? Theyre just pulling up Yeah, I know. I know. If they if they cant match them, how I dont know.
the nature of all of them. the fuck theyre gonna ID you?
*** like you said, *** mask or something. <Unintelligible background noises> *** just ***? Yeah. Now, you got a problem.
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I can do *** D Mmnh-mmnh. The crazy thing is --*** what the fuck? This mother fucker did (Unintelligible background noises heard). G
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all they said, said *** looking me in the eye not even getting upset, huh. D Thats a mess. So, theyre even thinking youre a fucking
459
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Maybe you had his eyebrows. You had his eyebrows *** shit.
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psycho mother fucker. G D G D G D G D G ***? D G D G S G D D G D G ***.

460
All they said is I know that your mind is ruined. ***. Man, but, you but, you get that fucking stare, that thousand Id just look em in the eyes and look down, it was like <No audible response> That was ***. <Unintelligible background noises> *** they may not know. Mmnh?
mile stare, and theyre they dont know what the fuck youre thinking. Yeah, bring it on. Right?
Probably the they had a problem with their eye *** guilty, Yeah, thats true. Well, --
Yeah, youd be looking at it. And then, you know. I just looked at it. And I was like Fuck, yeah, I know these Were they pictures of em after they got killed? Or were the Just pictures. Mmnh. I looked at it for a few seconds. It was like -So what? -- Well, what are you getting at? Really? Two years ago, they showed me the pictures of the body all
pictures of em before they got killed?
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people. ***
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Or when they see the picture of the person staring, like --
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D G
Mmnh. The one from El Monte A few different ones. I couldnt have looked at em, man. I <Sigh>
that popped up? almost threw up. <Unintelligible background noises> G D G D S could I be living a normal life like it never happened? I dont know. Its impossible. Yeah You know, youre right.
And thats another thing. If they claim I did all this, how
***. You look at that that dude whats that guy that the, uh
a fucking double life like a mother fucker. S D G
It doesnt happen very much. But, -Hey, you could be a fucking psychopath, man. You know? And, by the way, just tell us what happened. Maybe youre <Laughter> And well make a deal with you. Mmnh. *** spent two days in jail with a fucking crazy mother fucker. Im not crazy, dude. No. Do I look crazy to you? No.
461
just some crazy psychopath.
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G D S G D G D
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Who knows?
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Wow.
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that BTK bind bind, torture and kill guy that was a minister. He led
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G D S G S D G D G D G D G G D G D D G
I dont know. Im ***. No. ***. ***. Would a crazy mother fucker be scared? <Sigh> Yeah, I dont think youre crazy. <Unintelligible backgrond noises> You know Mmnh? Mmnh-mmnh. No.
-- I mean, thats the same *** person in, uh, the first case--- I couldnt identify him, cause he had a hoodie over his A hoodie over his face? <No audible response> (No audible response.) How did that happen? The same thing *** couldnt identify. Oh. Like a hoodie-type hood, something like that? Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, is that youre talking about Santa Monica, right? Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah, thats right-right there, man. Well, the problem is you didnt even know fucking know that No, but, all these other cases, what makes you think that
462
Unintelligible background noises heard).
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G D G
bitch. And
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theyre, supposedly think that I did it? And theyre trying to ***. D Maybe maybe they didnt all know. Maybe they all didnt know that, uh, -- they they were talking about the same people the same person, though. Maybe thats why it took so long. <Chuckle> D G D G D G Yeah. I think theyre fishing. <Unintelligible background noise> Mmnh-mmnh. G They were probably trying to ***. Thats impossible.***
All Im saying is I cant tell you if I was there or not. I dont know. I dont know if I did a job. I have a business. Oh, I see what youre saying. I thought you meant yeah. Well, anyways, we wanted to hear your side, so we know
that youre not the one that did it. And then, after, when I dont give witness saying that they saw you do it. D G S
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occurred. G D S
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of the house. Ill tell you what, if it was me, and I didnt do it, Id get on the They asked you take a lie detector?
463
fucking lie detector, dude. I swear to God.
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That saw you do it? Or they saw me coming out of the house after the homicide Yeah. They tell you that if you dont tell em shit, huh? They all say the same thing -- the witness saw me coming out
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them what they want, Anyways, we got physical evidence. And we got a
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Yeah, I got you. Yeah. Mmnh-mmnh.
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You guys want me to remember every single thing.
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D fucker. S G S D S D D S Thats why. D S D S D G D D D G D G
Go out and prove it, mother Did they ask you to take a lie detector? Uhn-uhn. No? How come? Well, I dont know-<Clear-throat> --Because thats the end of their case. They wont.
Oh, you know what? Lie detector is not, uh not admissible. Mmnh. True.
The courts only, uh they ***.
Id be demanding to take one, if I didnt do it, though. Fuck it. You know, ***. Dont be pinning shit on me. ***. They asked me if I robbed the house. I didnt do it. Well
And, uhm, I failed a lie detector test. They even asked me
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G G
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-- Did you kill your mom? I said No. And I failed it. You did? Yeah. Oh, you actually have taken it before? Mmnh-mmnh. Did you kill your mom? They ask you stuff like that. My mom died of natural causes.
464
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 here. G D G D D G D G D S D S D G
<Cough/clear-throat> Mmnh. Well, -But, it showed that you it showed that you killed your mom? Fuck.
Is that what they said? Wow. Did they arrest you for that, too? Did you kill your ex-girlfriend? Did you shoot her? I failed it. <Cough> Um. Thats fucked up.
Uh, they had all my ***-- physical evidence, and everything, What? Really?
***, shooting her, supposedly.
And, there, they got the gun.
They found me guilty. They have the gun. Mmnh-mmnh. Where? ***. Oh. Oh. Oh, I see what youre saying. So, his his her It was my girlfriend. Yeah? And he was he was obsessed with her and shot her. Oh. Oh, I see what youre saying.
465
(Coughing/clearing throat).
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G D
boyfriend or husband or something actually did the killing? G D G D
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They found you guilty?
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Wow. If they got that, we wouldnt be talking to you right
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And here they *** murder.
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G D G D G S D G D D G D G D S G S D
Over over a drug deal. Mmnh. But, the cops were going around saying Im the one that shot Mmnh, damn. I know. I know. *** fucking ***. So, how did they know it was him? Oh. Okay. <Cough/clear-throat> Mmnh-mmnh. Mmnh. No? What?
that killed her. Look at how filthy my socks are.
Because they traced the gun back to all the four murders.
All Im saying they have no physical evidence. Itll all come out ***. Itll all come out in the long run what theyve got. Yeah. Hope so. This is the thing. They think, because they got my DNA, Im Yeah. DNA just places me there. Yeah, it does. It doesnt tell you what time Ive been there. Yeah, thats true.
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G D G D G D
gonna be freaked.
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And he was he was down south in Mexico?
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(Clear throat).
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G D
It doesnt have a time of what Yeah, thats true. Yep. You got a really you got a good <Cough/clear-throat>
time I was there. reason for being there sometime. Youre good. S D S D S D S I think they can tell well, at least with blood DNA Mmnh-mmnh. -- If like a time frame, only like in months. Oh.
Not not time, specific, because blood breaks down after a Yeah.
period of time to where they cant even get DNA out of it.
not necessarily gonna show who said that, you know, I dont know how check the DNA out for it. So, they can say that that blood was there. G *** they have its the hairs that they took. They took over <Unintelligible background noises> S G D 75 hairs of mine.
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do that if they werent planting them in all different places? Well, Ill tell you what. Was this in Chicago? <Cough> G D Years ago. Okay. So, this is this is okay. Then, if they took 75 hairs
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lets pretend its 75 and they put those into evidence, you have to account for every single one of those hairs.
467
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They took em from you? Yeah. And cut em and did everything. Now, why would they
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many eight weeks or whatever itll break down where they cant even
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So, if they get something some blood DNA uhm, thats
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G S G
Well, they didnt. They didnt do Oh, they didnt? No, they said The detectives want to take more hair. And
it. They didnt care. They didnt put a count on it.
they were pulling my hair for a half hour. Theres no witnesses there. blood stuff from me, too. D D G D G D G D G D D G D G Wow. <Sniff>
And why you? Of all people in this fucking world, why you? Cause its from the Chicago case. Thats whats started it. Oh, the one with uh yeah, okay. Your friends fucking -And I wouldnt cooperate. So, they said Fuck it. And *** Oh. Well, you said her brother or something fucking blamed Yeah. <Chuckle>
hassle me. I know nothing.
where it happened, supposedly, and he didnt hear his sister get killed?
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have heard it. He didnt hear a thing, he said. Well ***

468
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He was laying there right in front of the door on the couch God. How did she get killed? Uh, it was like a *** stabbing or something. Well, if he stabbed her if somebody stabbed you, youd
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He blamed everybody else?
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Thats not on camera. They do whatever they want. And they took my
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-- thats fucked up. Mmnh. Wait a
minute. Is that the one that your like blood DNA underneath her fingernails or something? G D G D G D G D G D G D G D Thats what they said. They did not, though. Dont you think Yeah, youre right. <Cough/clear-throat> and the scars? I dont know. This is the thing ***, but-Yeah. its crazy that all of that blood DNA and theres no scratches on me?
Yeah. Even if there were, its easy to explain away. Install heating and air conditioning.
were like Wait. Dont you do heating and A/C? They what? They were telling me Dont didnt you do heating and A/C? Yeah, right. Whats that all about? <No audible response> <Unintelligible background noises> I dont know whether thats important. *** fucking trying to Well, its important because I could have went and ***. Oh. I used to live in Bellflower I told em. Mmnh. <Cough/clear-throat>
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G D G D
Actually, I did a few jobs in Downey. I dont remember the streets.
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You know what? They were getting to the point, where they
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No scars, even *** business ***. Where are the scratches
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D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G
Isnt that right next door to Yeah. -- Yeah, Bellflower, Bell, or something. Man, my flyers went all over the place. Yeah. May be. They got a flyer. Maybe it was in the dead persons house. Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah. ***. Thats why. Thats the physical evidence.
It said it said my company and the person died. Its just a thats their physical evidence.
***This thats all this is. <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
D S
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G D S G S
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Ahh.
Go ahead. You should eat them now. *** maybe you *** it later. <Cough/clear-throat> Yeah. Youre right. *** quick. You gonna eat the rest? Done with it? Yeah, thanks, brother. <Unintelligible background noises> Ugh, fucking detectives.
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Yeah. Thats not thats not gonna convict you.
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G G
My family needs to get a loan off Team of fucking lawyers. <Blow-nose> <Cough/clear-throat>
their house, man, get the team of crooked cops.
D G D G D
They have to do they get along with you?
percent behind me. You got any family out here? Chicago.
You know, they still can do it from back there. AhhYou <Cough/clear-throat>
G you know D G D G D G D
I should have threatened the cop and said You know what?
Because youre lying, and, uh, its against the law for you to be lying, as Yeah. Yeah.
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number and and all your information? Yeah. You know, the cop that got to me, investigated everything. Phew--I dont know. <Clear-throat>
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Are they allowed to lie to people like that?
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-- Theres so much crooked stuff going on, --- Im gonna report you to Internal Affairs. Whats your badge
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wonder how come they havent done that yet. FuckWhew
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Yeah, my family loves me. They said theyre a hundred
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They have to, dude.
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D D S
I dont know. <Cough/clear-throat> I dont know. ***. they do. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> <Cough/clear-throat> <Cough/clear-throat> 27:23-27:29>
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D G Im fucking sweating like crazy. Yeah, its a little warm in here. <Clear-throat>
you know, you think I should talk to my family, though? <Cough> G D G D G G D You think I should call him ***? Even if its past 5:00? probably wont be there. Hes You think the line will shut off? Or no? Youre paying him. My family knows that they were hassling me for years. <Sniff> So, they just find some physical evidence, and they charge Well, I dont think so. I think they need other things, because,
probably a 9:00 to 5:00 guy, man.
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you. Thats all they need, huh? uh, if you like you say you got a good alibi, and you got a you did
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*** should call my attorney or call him tomorrow with it. But,
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some work in somebodys house, then, your your DNAs gonna be in there, but when time of the murder a week before? G D G D G D G D I dont know. The police took all of my records. What do you mean? What records? Oh. -- From that, they took all my invoices. Oh. Whats that gonna prove? Yeah. 27:32-27:56> When then they swiped my car, *** my girlfriends
It would prove that I did work on the persons house. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time (Unintelligible background noises heard.) <Snore> <Dial tone>
<Unintelligible background noises> U U U For English, dial 1. Para Espanol <Dial tone> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> The number youve called is not allowed. <Dial tone> <Beep> <Dial tone> U For English, dial 1. <Beep>
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<Clear-throat/cough>
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 S S U U U G U U U
<Dial tone> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> One moment please. <Beep> <Unintelligent background noises> quote, dial 7. <Beep> <Ring> Hello? Michael, Anthonys client.
Thank you for using Inmate Communications. For a rate
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> This is a collect call from (Unintelligible background noises heard.) <Sigh> Its hot in here. ***. Hmnh. That wall is probably smoking hot, huh? <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah, its warm. <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> <Sigh> G S G *** fucking freaking out. I dont believe this shit, man. Mmnh? I dont believe all this shit, man. Coming from all different
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places. This is ridiculous. I dont know how they could be allowed to do that. <Cough/clear-throat> S I dont know. But, you definitely got it coming out of the <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 28:02-28:06> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough/clear-throat> G S D G D G D G D S those detectives and make em look like fools. Yeah. You should. woodwork. Mnh-mnh.
You know what? This makes me wonder if I were to tell all
I run a business. You got all my stuff. Pull all that out. Thatll Yeah. Yeah.
So, I think you guys need to look somewhere else. What are you clowning me? I should tell them Are you Exactly. What type of idiot do you think I am? Yep. Well I should have just told them straight on, Are you clowning Yeah, maybe they are. I think you guys are clowning, trying to freaking scare me.
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clowning me?
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me?
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state that I did a job in their house. It doesnt mean Im a killer.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 there. D G D them? G D noises> G D G D G S G S G S G
<Unintelligible background -- Saying they got physical evidence. Yeah, ha. What kind of an idiot do you think I am? Physical evidence Yeah. -- When Im doing a job. Yep. Why would he be pissed? That Im talking to em. Oh.
I shouldve. My attorney would be pissed, though.
But, you know what? Thats gonna all come down to it, man.
Right. Yeah, as long as you had a fucking job there. Yeah. So and you could do that for every single one of What?
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with the receipts or records of every single every single address. G D G D Listen, man. Why else would my DNA be there? I dont know. They could say what they want, cause theyre detectives. Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat>
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I mean, as long as you can as long as you can come up
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Im gonna say directly to my attorney, This is bogus.
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Like like theres theres no reason that I shouldnt have not been
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could be anything a hair dropping in a house
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D G D G
Yeah. Physical evidence means anything. Yeah. True. <Clear-throat> We drop skin cells all day long. Bullshit. You dont you
peeling in order to drop a cell a skin cell. They try that , you know what D G D G D G D G D G D Yeah. And Im very familiar with all that stuff. Oh, really?
So, if they tell you -- if they tell you something, youll be Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
-- as a typical person. But, to me, -<Chuckle>
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theyre not the medical examiner. <Clear-throat> D G Nope. <Cough/clear-throat> Just because they find a skin cell in the house does not mean youre a murderer.
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-- They think Im an idiot. The detectives are trying to
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-- Ive gotta confess,
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scared and like Oh, shit, --
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they try to do? They tried to talk like medical examiners.
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dont drop skin cells. What type of idiot do I am? You have to be
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Yeah, thats a great uh, thats a
great, uh, tact, though. Think about that great story. Every single one of the places <Yawn> <Unintelligible background noises> Make em prove it. G D G D G D G D G that did it. D G D And just because the person died, -Yeah. -- Does not mean I did it. True. Sure. Thats true. D -- Has your DNA. You mustve had a reason for being there.
You state to the fucking jury, I have a business and I go in Yeah. Yeah. True.
They could die, at any time. I dont with *** the customers
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trying to link together. Youre right. Thats one cap one percent. It doesnt mean that I know the person. <Unintelligible background noises> D G Thats true. And it gives you a reason for being there. Wouldnt they have to have dont besides DNA, Im
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Mmnh, good point.
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Yeah. ***. They could be all different cases man, that theyre just
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that I have, ten of em could get murdered. It doesnt mean Im the one
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And how am I supposed to think that someones gonna die?
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peoples houses. Am I supposed to be worried?
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saying I was there. Okay. So D G crime? D G I would think so. Yeah. Make them prove it. Cause, if theyve got a DNA case, its because the persons Yeah. -- Dont they need someone seeing me actually doing the
saying they werent there. And they go Okay, well, theres DNA there. D G been there. <Chuckle> G Yeah.
This the funny thing is theyre stating that they know Ive
So, how in the hell do they think theyre gonna scare me int Im not reason to be there. D G D Good point.
physical evidence is there. G D
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just try to talk in medical terms to scare me. Yeah. Yeah. *** was at that house a week before. <Unintelligible background noises heard> G D G D Think about it, man. If youre a juror Yeah. -- You got a business guy thats going into other peoples Yeah.
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Yeah. And theres just no time stamp on it. Yeah. Its not not that its not supposed to be there. They
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So, they just contradicted themselves. They know my
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saying I wasnt there. If they know I was there -- and I had to have a
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Youve been there many times at these different places.
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So, we know he did it.
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G D G D G D G D G D G random D G
-- House all day long. Okay. Yeah. You got the guy thats on the stand. Right. Or that theyre, I guess, in the at the prosecutors thing. Yep. What? Am I supposed to be feared <Clear-throat> Yeah. Yeah.
-- Thats somethings gonna happen to these people? Uhm, Im supposed to know that someones after em at Nah.
-- At any time, random within years? Someone could come in
and kill that person. And Im supposed to know about that and fear, <Unintelligible background voices> G D D a second. His DNAs all over the place.
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talking about. Thats thats the kind of stuff <Cough> D -- That, uh, your attorney probably never would have thought
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What are you gonna think, as a juror? This guys right? Wait Yeah. But, hes supposed to know, oh, that someones gonna die? Exactly, man. Yeah. I I agree. I mean, thats what Im
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cause Im a businessman and Im ***?
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And hes saying Yes, Ive been in all these houses.
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G D G D
What? Are you not supposed to Yeah. If somebody might be killed, you might get blamed for Now, its different if I didnt own a business. <Sniff> <Sigh>
go work in someones house? it? Yeah. Youre right, man. Thats it. Legitimate business.
G D G D G D G G D G D D S S G
If your girl calls me to go do a job, -Yeah. Ha. Yeah. Yeah.
<Unintelligible background noises> Im gonna be Im gonna be on the stand fucking being Yeah. You know what? Youve gotta wonder about that. -- I was supposed to know -Yeah. -- That somethings gonna happen to everyone? Okay. Who elses DNA would be in virtually every persons Yeah, I was just gonna say. Just <Chuckle> -- Playing devils advocate here. What they would say is, you know, the gas company guys are in there.
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house? Mail man?
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convicted of a crime, because
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And she gets stabbed one certain way,
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-- Somehow, you hired a hitman to kill her.
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D S D S
Yeah. The mail mans there. The guy that put the rugs in was there. Yeah. <Yawn> -- Zeroed in on you. Theyre gonna say none of their shit was
You know, whoever cleaned the furniture is there. But, they
had, you know they didnt have any of their, you know, hair or D S Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So, thats you need to think about that, cause theyre
allowed to say Theres all kinds of people there, in and out of houses. But, your name keeps coming up. So, youve gotta have a theyre G out, dude. S G D G D D G D G D G Well, of course, their DNA is there. Theyre just singling me Well, that could be. <Clear-throat> Yeah, Yeah, because they have a they have one that they Uh-huh. -- And its easy for them. Yeah. Yeah. But, its easy for you to say ***. Think about it, man. Yeah. Maybe the mail man maybe the fricking carpenter Yeah.
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Because of the case Im in now. Do you see it?
know you were at. Then, they can hang ***
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gonna have something to say to that.
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whatever is there.
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G D G D S DNA? G S G G S G G G U
-- Whos DNA wasnt in the Yeah. --Is in the database. Thats true. Yeah, if youre not in the databank, your name Do you know -- do they have any un- -- uh unrecognized ***. <Cough>
database. The first thing they pull up bing. This guy is one that, uh,
DNA from somebody they dont know who it is? Did anybody It wont come up. <Sigh> Mnh. <Cough>
mention that?
You know what Im saying? Theyre not trying to complicate. -- The one that comes up the most frequently *** for them. <Cough/clear-throat> Even if I pass out a flyer. Think about it. Im in the system Yeah. <Sigh> <Yawn>
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already. I go do jobs. Or my flyers get passed out.
G S
Im in the system. Were you what got you in the system? The thing back
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Thats what theyre doing. Theyre zeroing-in on me, cause
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All they care about is the bing.
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doesnt pop up.
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there in Illinois? G S D G D G case ***. D G D G D G D G D right? Yeah. <Sniff> Even ***. Yeah. Mmnh-mmnh. Mmnh. <Sigh> Yeah, but, that didnt catch up with you. You didnt go to prison for that. What?
<Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. Yeah.
-- If all these have happened at nighttime -- How do they have an eyewitness? I dont yeah, good question. Most people are sleeping, Well, how do you see a person in the dark? Yeah. Are you sure they all happened at night? Thats what they said, yeah. Thats good to know. Im just being framed because of my shit being in the system. Yeah. <Sigh>
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G D D G D G
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Im just curious, because ***, when they talk about it
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But, they have my DNA in the system. So, I made *** other
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G D G D D
So, they cant go back to the They cant go back and add your blood to the knife? Mmnh-mmnh. No, because I would think, that its already since its already in custody, <Clear-throat>
evidence room add my blood to the knife or whatever?
because blood is kind of <Cough/clear-throat> D
-- Easy to destroy, you know, youd think that, uh, they the
first thing they wouldve done is, uh, get a DNA test done, so, it just down pretty quick. Thats my thats why my attorney told me not to S D S D S Well, that depends on what it is. Blood Yeah. Yeah. -- Is like that. But, if you get -- If you get a like a chunk of skin you peel off, fuck, that Yeah. -- Years. No, thats true. No, Im talking about blood. Yeah. And any of the liquids blood, saliva Yeah. But, hes talking about his blood on that knife. Yeah. If they see blood on a knife Yeah.
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could sit there for
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worry about DNA too much, unless its brand new fresh.
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doesnt sit around, cause, DNA, you know, -- you know, DNA, uh, breaks
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and its already, uh, an evidence piece, its kind of controlled. And,
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-- On any any weapons like
that, most of the time, they check it real close. They put one of those lights and stuff. And then, they, uh they send it to the lab. G S U G D So, then, I dont have to worry? If there wasnt any knife blood on the knife, theyre not Mmnh.
fingerprint on the knife? to put DNA on a on <Cough/clear-throat> D G D G D G D
No, man. Everything is time-stamped. And theyre not going
know. Just like some kind of a, you know, check-in, check-out Yeah.
In that case, then, Im not worried.
the Downey case
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knife, whats to worry about? Its the ones you did do, you gotta worry about. So, thats what you got to thats what Im saying. You gotta ***. G D G D G Which I didnt do. So, Im not worried. Well, then, you shouldnt worry, at all. Im not worried, now now, that I know that. Fuck. Yeah. Im not worried about any of em.
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Uh-huh. -- And if you didnt do, dont worry about it. If that aint your
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Yeah, I wouldnt worry about it. Remember we talked about
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Okay. Well, that makes that makes me feel better.
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-- The cops, uh, they have to send it to like a crime lab, you
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They cant just lie, later on, and say that they found a
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gonna go add it.
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Yeah, I I mean, you really, <Unintelligible background noises>
honestly, dude, you know D G D G D D S G D S G S G S G D G D G D The stuff that anybody did *** you know, righteously, did, Im a businessman. Ive been in and out of houses. Yeah. Yep. Thats a good point. Simple answer. <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> Uhn-uhn. I dont know. What was that? Mmnh.
you know, dont worry about it.
When is my woman gonna come in and visit me? Its crazy. Will they let your attorneys call here, do you guys know?
Unless they were in lock-down. How much is your attorney? Mine? 5 grand - retainer. Fuck. Mines gonna be like a half a million retainer, now. How you gonna afford that, man? ***. <Unintelligible background noises> I guess if your people jump in there, man. I hope my sister fucking jumps in, cause she makes about 15 She does what?
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million a month.
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Of course, my DNAs gonna be there. What else you got?
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G D G D G D G D G D S D S G D G D G D D G D
Fifteen million. She owns the Dang, dude. How come youre not working for her? Well, she offered me five million a year to work out there. Really? What happened? Yeah.
largest construction company in Chicago.
I dont know why youre not working for her, man. Ssh, working in Chicago? Youre crazy? Yeah. But, I know if it was me, Id Yeah. <Laughter>
Five million bucks, you could buy a jacket.
Yeah, these socks are dirty. <Cough> Yeah. Yeah, I just got *** bottom, so. My feet are itching like crazy. Are they? Its cause theyre so dry, man. Ive been in the same clothes. Really? They havent give me no change. Oh. No deodorant, nothing. Im washing my armpits with fucking Yeah.
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Ive been in the same clothes for the last three weeks. G
toilet paper, dude.
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Buy fucking socks with fucking heaters in em.
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I dont think shell jump in, though, dude. If she did, Id be ***.
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<Yawn> Should I call ACLU? What would you tell them? That theyre just throwing shit at me and making cases and I Yeah, you could. You could. Although, I think, uh, -- I think it <Cough/clear-throat> what I mean? <No audible response>
have nothing to do with them. And would be better if you have a lot of well
-- It would be nice to know what you have first. You know
They may say certain things. I I dont know if the ACLU
cause the cops had lied to you. Theyd certainly get into it if they planted G D G D Who would?
The ACLU. Yeah, theyd do it. But Uhm, just they police the police, <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligent background noises> -- You know. The ACLU is not a -- a police agencies. You But, Internal Affairs, I
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know what I mean? They cant put you in jail.
mean, enforce make sure that laws are being adhered to. Again, I dont know if theyd respond because you you know, they lied because youre being lied to. But, they might theyd probaby respond if if they knew that they were planting evidence. Although, were talking about, what? Five different police
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Whats the whole point of Internal Affairs?
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evidence on you.
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would get in on a lie. In other words, I dont know if theyd respond just
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agencies, everybody planting evidence? I mean G D G D G D G D G witnesses. G D G D No, Im not saying planting evidence, man. Theyre saying Yeah. Sure. Sure. But, what would you tell the ACLU or Internal Theyre charging me and ruining my life false charging. ***. False accusations. Yeah. that my they have physical evidence on me. Im not saying no, they dont. I I could easily explain.
-- They dont have any witnesses that I was in there. And Thats thats what your attorney is paid for. <Cough> *** defaming my character. Well, your attorneys have to find out, uh, what they lied
theyre lying. Theyre lying to people.
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about. Then, you can decide what to do. Its kind of hard to do right here from a jail cell. <Sniff> <Unintelligible background noises> <Clear-throat> D probation.
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Well, I guess, Im gonna have to sign some papers, man, for
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<Unintellligent background noises>
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Lying to people. Lying to witnesses so they could get
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Affairs? I mean, you know what I mean? Uh--
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<Cough/clear-throat> ***. That sucks. I wonder why were here so long, though. Yeah, I dont know. Maybe well catch a bus tomorrow. <Blow-nose> Yeah, my, uh my PO told me to-
Cause Im done.
case my first case ***? <Clear-throat>
Uh, I dont know. I dont know when they when that
happens. If if the first one, uh, I guess, they could hold that thing Cause I had a double I had a double case when, uh -- they arraigned them to combine the two cases.
<Cough/clear-throat>
***my attorney stating, Hes a business guy and hes in their house. Is he supposed to be afraid of something happening in the house? D Yeah, I mean, that I mean, uh, see, thats what I think
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thats the point of the whole justice system, you know, is, ***, you could get accused. But, if youve got a good you if you have if you have, uh, an excuse, uh, for why youre there, then, thats why you go to a jury and tell the jury. And your story may may, uh, exonerate you. Thats exactly what the justice systems for. G You think a jury convict they convict people that say they were there?
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What would the judge say? They have all the things that
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me when they got the other case together. And uh- and it allowed
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would hold you over hold you in custody. And they could arraign you.
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Do I have to go to an arraignment? Or do I wait til my next
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D S D house, no.
Well, not if youre Depends on the circumstances. Not just for that. If it was just because your, uh, skin DNA was everybodys <Chuckle>
S D around. G D G D G D G D G D D
I think bloods harder to explain than the skin being there.
They dont have my blood anywhere. Whats that? Oh. They dont have my blood anywhere.
In the first case, possibly. But, any other case, no way in Yeah. Yeah.
Thats a hundred percent accurate. Definite. You know, the cops arent that bright. Theyve been doing it Yeah. Nah. We drop DNA all over the place. We drop skin cells all the Mmnh. <Clear-throat> Well, that could work against them, huh?
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for a long time.
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G G S D
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every other minute.
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But, did you hear what they told me?
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Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And a strong wind could blow, uh, skin
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No way.
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You you no. You were in the
house. And you cant tell us why you were in the house, so, were gonna fricking charge you. D S G Well, theyre not gonna have any case, then. Yeah. And then, Im Im -- and then, my attorneys gonna say
Regardless, hes not saying he wasnt in the house. Of course, he D G D G D G D G D D Yeah. He did a job there.
Yeah. Yeah, thats a lot easier to explain. You know, the No, man, Im thinking Im thinking real though I didnt think Mmnh-mmnh.
cops, uh, when theyre having to spread your DNA all over the place. one I thought, because theres been a lot of corrupt things, uh -- Dealing with evidence box and doing stuff. Uh-huh. Well, I I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Youve heard about that? Theres been a lot of crap done. <Cough> Yeah. But, uh, what youre saying what youre saying is
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like you got every reason. You got every reason to be in peoples houses. G That one detective said Youve been there many times. And
I still know you know, I still dont think youre getting it. I have witnesses. I I will prove that youre the one that did it. D G Which one said that? Small the Hollywood one.
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dropped skin cells and hair and other things.
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D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D
Oh. I know you I know youve been in the house many times. Phew. Yeah. I hope for his sake he does. Well, how the fuck does he have a case, then? He even told me straight up, Youve been in and out of the But no time-stamps, like you said. <Unintelligible background noises> I dont know.
Theres proof for that.
And what does he want me to say? He was probably waiting Yeah. Like psychology. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And hang myself.
for me to say Hell, no, I dont know her. I wasnt there.
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G D G D G D
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of this one case Im in Yeah. -- Im the one that did it? Yeah. Why didnt they arrest me before? Yeah.
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<Water flow> <Cough/clear-throat> And, like I told them before, Im now, all of a sudden, because
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Its possible. I was *** there.
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house many times.
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He had all the same old evidence.
He had nothing he has nothing else. He just has these cases. Thats thats what he means by Oh, we know for sure because of the case in Santa Monica and because all these other people have tried to come in. Thats what he means. night. And its a house thats all closed up and locked. How the fuck did D G S G S G S D S I dont know. They didnt. Theyre lying. And the Hollywood one, it happened at like 7:00 or 8:00 that anyone see someone coming from the house?
He was at the place where theres no lights and stuff? <Unintelligible background noises> Mmnh-mmnh. Man, he couldnt see.
He said its all closed up for for *** .
front door. Ive been to the house many times. Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> I dont see how that happens unless they had some kind of Special forces. Theyre just up to no good, man, in all their cases. You know Really? They make $386 a day for each, uh, inmate. Oh, I see what youre saying. I thought you meant the the Were paying for their ***. ***?
495
special night vision goggles or something. Thats not gonna happen.
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they make money on us the more people they put in jail?
investigators were doing something.
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Yeah, you have to go up the driveway. And then, go to the
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D G D G S D G D G D S D
Yeah. Yeah, I know that. Uh, the detectives get bonuses when they file a case. And, Is that right? Of course, dude. 40 to 50 grand? Forty yeah. I m in the wrong fucking business. <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. Sneaky bastards. Why do you think theyre so crooked? How much they get?
they solve a case like 40 or 50 grand.
Well, look, I think youve got a I think you have a great
something like that. G house. D J S
<Clear-throat/cough>
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Yeah.
Baker? Thank you, man. <Close-cell door> <Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 28:36> ***. <Unintelligible background noises> To the left. Face towards the wall. Whats it about?
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Im a businessman. And I get paid to work in someones
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explanation, man. Thats exactly what I thought you might come up with
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I dont know. I was wondering
about that. Maybe hes got a visitor. Uh, does your does your, uh, lady know youre here? G D G D G D visit you? G D G D G that ***. D G D G D D No. Why not? They wont let her. Who wont let her? No, she doesnt have a phone. How about your, uh, -- I thought I thought your, uh, attorney No, I called ***. I dont know, man.
Well, shes gotta be worried sick. She come down to
She said they came she came or she called, and they said Huh, well, this is the perfect place here, though. I cant get a hold of her. Yeah. You dont think your attorney could, huh? Uhn-uhn. Do you, uh does your lady have fucking, uh, -I cant. I have a restraining order. If I were to call her? You know what, dude? I dont know. I I itll itll give me
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could you collect call her? G
I I promise you, itll fuck me up. Listen. Shed come. You know the worst part is? Shed come visit me. G But, listen, if I collect call, youre not contacting her. If I talk to
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Oh, back ***? How come you didnt call your lady?
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was gonna call?
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
her, saying Im an inmate with with your boyfriend, -<Sigh> D G D G D G D I dont want her to fuck up my shit, dude. Youre not allowed to contact her? I cant. The only thing I can do is talk to her at a visit like So, theres a restraining order? Theres a restrain restraining order.
she can come over here and visit.
Oh, dude, then, you cant contact her anymore. No. She can visit me and talk about shit, about, you know,
family and and bills and things like that. But, shes gonna, uh, G D G D G D D G G D D G I dont think my wife will see me. Cause
What the fuck, man? I thought she I thought she was loyal Yeah. But, but still She believes in you, right? Yeah. Weve argued a lot over my kids and the mom. Yeah, but, this doesnt have anything to do with that. Uhn-uhn. <Sigh> She doesnt believe youre a cold-blooded killer. <Unintelligent background noises> Ahh. *** physical evidence.
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and nice she was your lady and all that?
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Why?
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hopefully, come tonight.
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D G D G D G D G D G D G D G
Well, if its flaky skin, like you say, Its not my blood. Exactly. <Unintelligent background noises/voices> Yeah. Umn I am not gonna go crazy over this.
youve got nothing to worry about.
Well, if you didnt do it, then, you shouldnt be scared. All this shit theyre saying is to make me give a confession. Maybe. Yeah, but, youre not gonna confess to something No. But, what Im saying is, they dont want to take the Mmnh-mmnh.
you didnt do. risk of going to the jury
-- *** wholes in the case. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you think theyll drop charges if you No, theyre not gonna drop the charges. But, theyll put it
Im telling you, man, if you were a detective, wouldnt you want to hear from the person themselves?
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Then, you have a fucking attorney defense attorney who slams em.
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Oh, yeah. I mean, I would think so. If you dont Like TV, Mmnh-mmnh. Where they sit there Oh, okay. Okay. That doesnt happen. If you dont have a confession, you dont have to talk to em.
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dont confess?
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I am not gonna be scared because there is nothing I can do.
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Yeah, you have all this physical evidence. Sure. Thats great. D G D G D G D G D G G G D No confession. Now now, how the hell are you gonna prove that he was Yeah, youre right.
there at the same time? Prove it right now. Prove it that he was there exactly at the same time, even Yeah. Time-stamp.
Another one -- all of them may have been murdered by a leftI dont know.
hander or a right-hander. Could they tell the difference? Well, heres what Im thinking. I dont know if they could tell. <Sigh> Heres what Im thinking--
If I came at you like this come over here, man. Cause Im not stupid. ***? <Chuckle> No. If this is <Flush-toilet> <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. If I come at you like this. Its gonna be a downward cut. Its the same thing. Yeah. Youre right. Its the same slice, right or left.
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<Clear-throat>
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though hes a business guy whos been in their house several times.
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Michael Gargiulo: Part 5 Transcript of &quot;Perkins Operation&quot;

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Michael Gargiulo: Part 5 Transcript of &quot;Perkins Operation&quot;

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Transcript*Time*25:35* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:23*pm*

what? I dont know. I dont remember.

<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 25:36> <Clear-throat> J

them making up shit. G D G D happening.

Man, thats what

Thats what your attorneys gonna find out.

***. Huh, Hmnh. <Unintelligible background noises> <Water flow>

Well, what are you facing, man?

You know what, man? I uh, everything should go as as I

which means that, if I <Flush-toilet> D

Okay. This is how you do it. ***. Mmnh-mmnh.

Okay. You stick it in there where

Yeah. Its a round circle with a little a little slot --

get something stiffer than that.

mirrored lining -- the mirrored glass, the conference room?

Which conference room?

*** Well, you know about that shit <Clear-throat>

people you dont even know?

How do you fucking come up with an option on a person --

fuck it. Let me tell you something. D

havent done anything?

Theyll give me a fucking lifetime, even if you didnt do it,

guys, Im sure. Okay. They are dying to clear cases.

No. He spent it in fucking he spent it in a psyche hospital.

at a jail term for shit I didnt do.

But, if you did, start thinking start fucking thinking, man.

No, youre a businessman. Youre a smart guy. So, this is

A smart guy like me? Why am I gonna be dumb?

Dont let them railroad you.

of one stupid case from my blood ***.

I cant believe theyre tacking this shit down on me, because

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Close-cell door> D D What the fuck? Huh.

<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 25:54>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Chuckle> <Sigh> <Cough> G D D arrest me then?

I guess his attorney had more to say.

mental, uh, problem do you got? Anxiety? G D G

one would you pick? Or which one are you?

They all have the same story. They have my physical

been throwing everything on me. That its LA and theyre crooked.

same evidence for every case?

Im sorry. Youll have to say it again.

my life in prison or worse, I might think about it.

case that link me to them. <Laughter>

mean anything. That, theyve seen me before.

plenty of peoples houses. Everybody needs air conditioning and

Doesnt mean that they put me there.

Cause my wife was doing a report.

I didnt know much about him. I just pulled him up just

Oh, sure, you know, Ill watch watch documentaries on it.

Uh, awhile back fuck, five years

see your palm. Mmnh. youre youre a D G D G You have

Like two or three yr two years ago. Sixty-two.

make it worse, huh?

em when I walked back.

a second, uh uh, he forgot to tell you something?

bail reduction. D S D S D S D S Oh. Cool. Yeah. Then, what? Yeah.

So, if that happens, I might be able to make bail. Hmnh.

just stroking me. D found guilty?

Well, fuck then maybe Ill get out here.

fucking end up dying, later S guys D S D S

Yeah. Well, thats, you know uh, yeah, I Im sure theres

gonna be nobody around remember *** cause nobody was around to

Ah, no. Its been years. Why?

live that, uh Yeah. Yep.

Michael Gargiulo: Part 5 Transcript of "Perkins Operation"

Michael Gargiulo: Part 5 Transcript of "Perkins Operation"

TranscriptTime25:35* RealTimeJune18,2008,3:23pm*

* fucking *. Yeah. ***.