SchramekTestimony Redacted PDF

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SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK

COUNTY OF PUTNAM
x
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
-against-
MARIO CARUSO,
Defendant.
20 County Center Carmel, New York November 1, 2011
BEFORE:
HON.
ALBERT LORENZO,
Justice of the Supreme Court
Testimony of Gerald A. Schramek
^ m - o w t w wwII f ji*inwnfirf|>ww.gH.,i*iwny*,.n
Mary C. Traynor Senior Court Reporter
1
APPEARANCES
ADAM LEVY, ESQ.
Putnam County District Attorney
Attorney for the People

40 Gleneida Avenue
Carmel, New York 10512

BY: CHANA KRAUS, ESQ.
MANCUSO, RUBIN & FUFIDIO, ESQS
Attorneys for the Defendant

One North Broadway
White Plains, New York 10601

BY: ANDREW A.
AND:
RUBIN, ESQ.
SPAIN & SPAIN, ESQS.
671 Route 6, Suite 1 Mahopac, New York 10541

BY: COMPTON SPAIN, ESQ.
CALLAHAN & FUSCO, LLC Attorneys for Putnam County
40 Exchange Place
18th Floor
New York, New York 10005

BY: CHRISTOPHER G. FUSCO, ESQ.
WILLIAM G. SAYEGH, P.C. Attorney for the
The Sayeoh Building

65 Gleneida Avenue
Carmel, New York 10512 BY: KENNETH S. RONES, ESQ.
oOo
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
MR.
RUBIN:
Chief Schramek,
your Honor.
(Witness took the stand.)
THE COURT OFFICER:
Do you swear the
5
6
evidence you are about to give in the matter

before this Court will be the truth, the whole
7
8
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

THE WITNESS: I do.
THE COURT OFFICER:
State your name,
10
spell your last name and your County of residence,
11 12 13
14
15 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. RUBIN:
THE WITNESS: S-C-H-R-A-M-E-K. County.

THE COURT:
A period Gerald Schramek,
County of residence is Putnam
Please be seated, Chief.
17
Q.
Good afternoon, Chief Schramek.
18
19
Chief, when did you become -- are you familiar

with the Mario Caruso matter?
20
21
A.
with.
Somewhat.
The original case I am not familiar
22
Q.
When did you become involved with Mr. Caruso?
23
A.
Past, I would say the past two or three months.
24
Q.
Were you, if I pinpoint the time of late July,
25
early August, is that a fair estimate of when you may

11/1/11
1
2
3
A.G. SCHRAMEK - DIRECT - MR. ROBIN

have become involved in terms of Mr.
A. Possibly, yes.
Caruso's case?
4 5
6
7
Q.
Could you pinpoint an event that caused you to
become involved with, I'm using word involved, I can't

think of a better word, with Mr. Caruso?
Was there some events that occurred?
8
9
Let me get more specific.
Did you become
involved when there was some information provided by
10
11
probation or the Sheriff's Department that Mr. Caruso

was living at his own residence?
12
13
A.
Q.
I got involved actually after that, sir.

How long after that?
14
15
A.
after
I would merely,
that.
a guess, maybe about a month
16
17
Q.
Are you aware that the Sheriff's Department set
up surveillance of Mr. Caruso in the days following
18
19
20
August 4th,
A.
Q.
2011?
sir, I am.
Yes,
Were you at all involved in supervising that
21
22
part of the investigation?

A. Yes.
23
24
Q.
So that were you present at a meeting with the
District Attorney's Office and Probation Department,
25
possibly the Carmel Police Department, regarding Mr.

-11/1/11-
1 2
Caruso?
A.
A.G.
SCHRAMEK
DIRECT
MR.
RUBIN
3 4
Yes
, sir,
ask
I was.
the date
Q.
A.
May I
I
of that meeting?
think
it
MS.
was
on
or about August 4th.

August 4th.
2011.
6
7 8
9 Q.
On
or a
KRAUS:
bout August 4,
Now,
at
that meeting were there discussions

to do with
from
regardi ng
w hat
Mr.
Caruso
as
result
of
10
information
Whittak er?
A.
Yes
received
a man by the name of Mr.
11 12 13 14
15
sir.
was
Q.
that
A.
And
any arrest made
of
Mr.
Caruso
based
on
in formation
made by Mr.
Whittaker?
No,
Was
sir any
16 17
18
Q.
violation
filed
as
result
of
the
informa tion
A.
received by Mr . Whittaker?
by the Sheriff 's Department,
that
Not
sir.
19 20 21
to
of
Q. be
At
point in time did you cause surveill ance of Mr. Caruso's whereabouts for a period
conducted
time?
22
A.
Yes,
sir.
23
24 25
Q.
And did you have undercover police officers
conducting that surveillance?

A. Yes, sir.
11/1/11
A.G. SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
2
3
Q.
A.
These were officers trained in surveillance?

Yes, sir.
4
5
Q.
Officers who actually worked in narcotics
surveillance?
A.
That's correct,
sir.
Q.
Their job was to keep an eye on Mr. Caruso, make
8
9
sure that he was doing what he was supposed to be doing?

A. Yes, sir.
10
Q.
In fact, he was doing what he was supposed to be
11
12
13
doing during the point in time that the surveillances

were being conducted?
A. That's correct.
14
15
Q.
About how long a period of time did the

last?
surveillances
16
17
A.
weeks.
Sporadically done and I would say lasted a few
18
Q.
So it was done,
when you say sporadically, would
19 20
21
it be fair to say that it was done randomly over a several-week period?

A. Yes, sir.
22
Q.
There wasn't any particular timetable that any
23
24
25
of your officers were using to watch Mr. Caruso, they

would watch him various hours of the day,
watch him or his residence,
they would
to make sure that he wasn't
11/1/11
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
2
3
going to his residence?

A. Yes, sir.
Q.
To make sure he was
also to make sure that he
5
6
7
hasn't been going other places he shouldn't be going?

A. Primarily the assignment was to check out his
residence so
residence and check out the area around his
that he was in compliance with the Order of Protection.
9
10
11
Q.
He appeared to be in compliance when your
officers were observing him?

A. That is correct.
12
13
Q.
of 2011.
Now,
I wanted to go forward until September 26th
14
Did you cause an affidavit to be submitted to
15
16
this Court regarding, regarding Mr. Caruso?

A. Yes, sir.
17
18
Q.
A.
And who asked you to do that?

It was a result of a conversation, conference
19
20
that I had with Sheriff Smith and Captain McNamara.

Q. What was that -- withdrawn.
21
22
23
Have you ever submitted an affidavit before in

any criminal case that you are aware of?
A. Not that I can recall.
24
Q.
Do you know whether or not the request to review
25
this and submit the affidavit was made by counsel to the

-11/1/11-
1
2
A.G. SCHRAMEK Sheriff's Department?
DIRECT - MR.
RUBIN
A.
Not to my knowledge.
4
5
6
Q.
So, do you know what
did either Sheriff Smith
or Captain McNamara tell you why they wanted you to

submit this affidavit?
A.
We sat down,
had a meeting,
discussed the
8
9
affidavit and for clarification purposes for the Court

we felt it was a prudent thing to do.
10
Q.
When you say "for clarification purposes", were
11
12
you responding to an affidavit that was part of a motion

that I filed, an affidavit by Mr. Caruso that was part
13
14
of a motion that I filed seeking modification of this

Order of Protection?
15
A.
It was an affidavit that was filed by the
16
17
District Attorney's Office.

Q. What in that affidavit filed by the District
18
Attorney's Office seemed to concern the Sheriff's
19
20 21
Department to the point where you were told to submit

this rather unique affidavit to the Court? A. We had looked over the paperwork that was filed
22
23
by the DAs office.
We wanted to make absolutely clear
to the Court the Sheriff's Office's position was that in
24
25
fact we agreed with Mrs. Kraus that no victim,

especially the victim of child abuse,
-11/1/11-
should ever be
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
2
3
forced to face their accuser again.

abuser.
I'm sorry,
their
Q.
What I meant,
go on.
5 6
A.
And that the fact,
that the purpose of this
meeting that I attended was to discuss the possible
7
8
violations against Mr. Caruso for failing to register

his name pursuant to law with the sex offender registry
9
10
within a ten-day period and also investigation into

possible violations of the Order of Protection.
11
12
Q.
Now, did you make inquiry,
let me stay on topic,
as far as the affidavit,
what in the affidavit did you
13 14
feel should be responded to? What in Ms. Kraus' affidavit did you feel should
15 16 17 18
be responded to, which caused you to be told to respond? A. We felt that Mrs. Kraus' affidavit may have been
misleading or needed clarification as to our difficulty in performing sex offender registry notification
19 20 21 22
23
throughout the community, as well as what the purpose of, the original intent and purpose of the meeting that we had with the District Attorney's Office and Carmel Police and Probation Department was.
Q. Now, bear with me for a moment.
24
MS. KRAUS:
Objection.
I'm not sure the
25
Chief testified where he got a copy of the
-ii/i/ii-
1
2 3
4
A.G.
response.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
MR.
THE
RUBIN:
COURT:
I was about to ask that.

I'll ask.
5
6
7
Chief, where did you get a copy of the

response?
THE WITNESS: Ms. Kraus' response,
8 9
10
11
THE COURT: through an e-mail?

Q.
A.
Through the internet,
From whom?
Mr. Rones' office.
12
13 14
15
Q.
A. Q.
A.
Okay.
So, now, tell us who Mr. Rones is?
Attorney here in the Town of Carmel. Also an attorney representing

I believe so.
16
Q.
Does he work for the law firm that represents
17
18 19
the Sheriff's Department?

A. Q. He works for the law firm of William Sayegh. Does William Sayegh represent the Sheriff's
20
Department?
21
A.
William Sayegh is the counsel to the sheriff.
22
23
Q.
A.
He's counsel to the Sheriff of Putnam County?

That is correct.
24
Q.
And Mr. Rones is the attorney representing
25
, in possible civil suits against Mr.

11/1/11
10
1
2 Caruso?
A.G. SCHRAMEK - DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
A.
I guess
so.
Q.
Mr. Rones is the person who e-mailed you the
5
6
appropriate papers that have been submitted in this

criminal case to the Sheriff's Department; correct?
7
8
9
A.
To the best of my recollection it was his office
that e-mailed me a copy of the affidavit that was

supplied by Ms. Kraus.
10
11 Mr.
Q.
Did you have a copy of the affidavit supplied by
Caruso?
12
A.
No.
13
14
q.
Didn't you respond in your affidavit to Mr.
Caruso's affidavit that you submitted to the Court on
15
16
September the, sworn September 23rd.

submitted September 26th.
I believe it was
17
18
19
Do you recall responding to Mr. Caruso's

affidavit in your affidavit?
A. That language, yes.
20
Q.
What do you mean,
that language?
21
A.
I do recall that being part of my affidavit.
22
23
Q.
Did you write your affidavit or did somebody
write it for you?
24
A.
Somebody wrote it for me.
25
Q.
Could you tell us who wrote it for you?

11/1/11
11
1
2 A.

Yes.
Q.
Who?
A.
Captain William McNamara.
5
6
7
Q.
Captain McNamara wrote the affidavit.
You had
read it and you signed it.

A. Right.
8
9
Q.
Did you supply him with information so that he
could write this affidavit for you?
10
11
A.
That came out of the meeting that we had between
the Sheriff, Captain McNamara and me.
12
Q.
The Sheriff, Captain McNamara and yourself had a
13
14
15
16
17
meeting where you went over information sent to you by

' lawyer, so that you could respond to
the Court that is listening to this particular aspect?
THE COURT:
Break it down.
You're getting compound.
18
Q.
You had a meeting with the Sheriff and Captain
19
20
McNamara, in order to respond to certain documents being

submitted to the Court in a criminal case; correct?
21
22
A.
criminal
I'm not certain if it was

case.
in response to a
23
24
Q.
Well,
People against Mario Caruso, is that a

to your knowledge?
criminal case,
25
A.
I don't know if it's an ongoing criminal case.

11/1/11
12
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR. RUBIN
I thought it was disposed of.
Q.
Were you aware or did anybody make you aware
there was an application first before Judge Rooney,
now
5
6
transferred to Judge Lorenzo, to modify the Order of

Protection in the case?
A.
I knew that,
yes.
8
9
10
Q.
You knew that was an ongoing and somewhat

correct?
contested procedure;
A. Yes, sir.
11
12 13
14
Q.
Now, you received -- did you request a copy of

of the various affidavits, to be sent to
the affidavit, you?

A. I asked
for
the
affidavit
of
Mrs.
Kraus.
15
16
17 18
Q.
Kraus?
A. Rones'
Who informed you there was an affidavit by Mrs.
Mr.
Rones.
believe
it
was
Mr.
Rones.
Mr.
office.
19
20
21
Q.
They informed you that Ms. Kraus submitted an

correct?
affidavit in this particular case;

A. That is correct.
22 23
24
Q.
Did they also inform you Mario Caruso submitted
an affidavit in this particular case?

A. No, sir.
25
Q.
I'm somewhat confused now.

-11/1/11-
There came a point
13
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
2
3
4
in time when Captain McNamara prepared an affidavit for

you to sign;
A.
correct?
Correct.
5
6
Q.
A.
Did you read it before you signed it?

Yes, sir.
7
8
Q.
Caruso's
In that affidavit do you refer to Mario

--
THE COURT:
We've covered that.
Get
to
10
11
the point.
MR. RUBIN: This is the point. At one
12
13
14
point he says he didn't get it.
At another point
I'm trying
he's apparently saying he did get it.

to find what the situation is.
15
THE COURT:
I'll give you leeway.
Go
16
17
18
on, ask the question.

Q.
A.
Did you ever see Mario Caruso's affidavit?

No, sir.
19
20
Q.
Can you explain -- may I hand up his affidavit?

Can you explain how you responded to Mario
21 22
23
Caruso's affidavit in your affidavit if you've never seen a copy of it?

A. I was told about it.
24
Q.
By whom?
25
A.
Captain McNamara.
-11/1/11-
14
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
2
3
4
Q.
A.
Do you know how Captain McNamara .obtained it?

No.
Q.
A.
Do you know if Mr. Rones sent one to him?

No.
5
6 7
Q.
Do you know if Mr. Rones had a conversation with
him wherein he delivered it personally?

A. No.
8 9
Q.
read?
You're responding to an affidavit you never
10 11
THE COURT:
your answer.
Now it's sustained.
You got
12
13 14
Q.
Prior to September 26th did you notify Ms. Kraus
you were submitting this affidavit?

A. No, sir.
15
16 17
18
Q.
Did you notify Mr.
Spain or myself you were
submitting this affidavit?

A. No, sir.
19
Q.
put
Did Mr.
Rones tell you you should notify us and
20
21
us on notice? A. No, sir.
22
23
24
Q.
that
So,
basically you were just following orders;
is
correct?
A.
I was following what we feel to be the prudent
25
procedure.
11/1/11
15
2
3
4
Q.
When you say "we feel" were you directed to
assist in the preparation of this affidavit?

A. Yes, sir.
Q.
You were directed by your superiors?
6
7
A.
Again, we discussed this in a meeting.
That was
the result of that meeting.
8
9
Q.
A.
Was it your decision?

It was a combination of the three of us.
10
11
12
Q.
A.
Q.
Is Captain McNamara your superior?

No, sir.
correct?
Sheriff is,
13
A.
Absolutely.
14
15
Q.
Did the Sheriff make it clear to you he expected

to be filed?
an affidavit
16
17
18
A.
Q.
this
I'm sorry?
Did the Sheriff make it clear to you he expected
to be filed?
affidavit
19
A.
I wouldn't call it expected, but he thought it
20
21
was the right thing to do.

Q. Did he explain why he thought it was the right
22
thing to do?
23
24 25
A.
Again,
to clarify the position of the Putnam
County Sheriff's Office in relation to this matter. Q. What was the position that you felt needed
11/1/11 -
16
1
2
A.G. SCHRAMEK clarification?
DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
3
4 Ms.
A.
Again, we believe that -- we agree strongly with

affidavit that the victim, abuse victim,
Kraus'
child abuse victim should not have to face their
6
7
attacker and face their abuser, especially in the safety

of their own home.
8
9
10
Q.
Can you explain what jurisdiction the Sheriff's
Department has in determining whether an Order of

Protection is to be issued or modified?
11
A.
No,
I can't.
12
13
14
Q.
And how much input has your department had with

Protection being modified?
know.
Orders of
A.
I don't
15
16
Q.
Have you had any input in other Orders of
Protection?
17 18
A. Q.
As far as issuing Orders of Protection? You can't issue, the Court issues.
19
20
Have you, yourself,
submitted documents to court
in order to get an Order of Protection issued or
21 22
23
modified to a court, submitted a document to a court -let me withdraw and rephrase.

THE COURT: Go ahead.
24
Q.
Have you ever submitted documents to a court
25
before, requesting either, A, Order of Protection or, B,

11/1/11
17
1
2
3

Order of Protection be modified?
A. Yes, I have.
4
5
Q.
A.
How many?
Number of cases my 31 years.
6
7
8
Q.
Have you ever done an affidavit in response to
the District Attorney's motion?

A. No.
9
10
Q.
Have you done it on affidavit in response to
defense motion?
11
A.
No,
sir.
12
Q.
So this would be the first time you ever put in
13 14
an affidavit in response to motions in a criminal case; would that be fair to say?
15
16
A.
Q.
Something like that, yes.

Now, one other thing.
17
18
19
In your affidavit you state, that it was at a

meeting with ADA Kraus and others where you discussed
his sex offender status and his transient movements,
20
21
right?
A. That is correct.
22
Q.
What do you mean?
23
24
25
A.
That he didn't have a firm residence, he was
living out of a van, going from motel to motel.

Q. Those are not ideal places for level three sex
11/1/11
18
1
2
A.G.
SCHRAMEK - DIRECT - MR. RUBIN

are they?
offender to reside,
A.
No,
sir.
4
5
Q.
There was some concern in your affidavit --
withdrawn.
Was this affidavit being submitted in order to
7
8
9
help influence the Court in making a determination as to

whether or not the Order of Protection should be
modified?
10
A.
I think the affidavit stands on its face in
11
12
that, in that it clarified the position of the Sheriff's

Office for the Court.
13 14
15
Q.
Did anybody ask for the position of the
Sheriff's Department for the Court?

A. I don't know, sir.
16 17
18
Q.
Did Mr. Rones ask that you clarify the position
of the Sheriff's Department?

THE COURT: Now it's sustained. We
19
covered that.
20
Q.
Regarding Mr. Caruso, Mr. Caruso's
21
22
clarification, did you, you meaning the Sheriff's

Department, receive copies of notification of sex
23
24
offender regarding his address?

A. I don't know.
25
Q.
Did you ever do any investigation to see if he

11/1/11-
19
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
2
3
was reporting his places of residence to DCJS?

A. Mr. Caruso?
Q.
Mr.
Caruso,
of course.
5
6
A.
Q.
I believe Investigator Trisanelli (ph.)
did.
Was he reporting his locations of residence to
7
8
DCJS, do you know?

A. I don't know.
9
10
Q.
Did you ever follow up on whether or not -THE COURT: Sustained. He doesn't know
11 12
13
MR. RUBIN:
He put in his affidavit
allegations my client was not reporting as

required.
14
15
THE COURT:
followup result was?
Do you know what the
16
THE WITNESS:
Followup was at one point
17
18
in time it appeared that he did not file as

prescribed by law.
19
20
Q.
Were you able to determine -- I'm sorry, do you
know when that was?
21
A.
I'm sorry?
22
Q.
Do you know when that was?
23
24
A.
Q.
I believe it was in July.

One occasion?
25
A.
One occasion I believe, yes.

-11/1/11-
20
2
3
4
Q.
Did you check with the Town of Carmel Police to
find if he had actually reported his residence to the

Town of Carmel?
5
6
A.
Q.
Yes,
we did.
He hadn't?
A.
That's correct,
he didn't.
8
9
Q.
Did you include that in your affidavit being

this case?
submitted in
10
A.
No,
sir.
11
12
q.
you responded to Defendant's affidavit because
Defendant had a complaint that it appeared that the
13
14
15
flyer that was being handed out to community residents

gives the impression that his conviction was for a
recently occurring offense.
16
17
Do you remember responding to that?

a difficult question.
I know it's
18 19
20
21
Flyers were handed out to the community informing them there was a level three sex offender
living at various different addresses; correct?
A. That's correct.
22
Q.
This was, to your knowledge, was this causing
23
24
25
him a problem finding a place to live, particularly in a

motel?
A. That is correct.
-11/1/11
21
Q.
You're aware one of Mr. Caruso's complaints was
3
4
that the flyer made it appear that he had recently

committed these offenses?
A.
I wasn't aware of that complaint.
6
7
8
Q.
You signed and swore to this affidavit submitted
on August the 23rd?

A. That is correct, sir.
9
10
Q.
follows:
In your affidavit do you recall stating as

In Defendant's affidavit dated August 2nd,
11
12
13
14
2011, he avers sometime on or about 6/15/11 to 6/21/11

Putnam County Sheriff's Department deputies circulated a
flyer blanketing the area informing the neighbors I was
a level three violent sex offender and that the crime
15
16
17
18
had happened recently.
Then it says see Defendant's

In point
affidavit at, I believe it's paragraph five.
of fact Sheriff's Office did not inform anyone about

when Defendant's crime had been committed, rather the
19
20
community flyer disseminated, set forth Defendant's

conviction, in this case a copy of the flyer is annexed
21
22
23
here to as Exhibit A, do you recall swearing to that as

part of your affidavit?
A. Yes, sir.
24
25
Q.
Would it be fair to say that at that time you
were aware that one of his complaints was that it

11/1/11-
22
2
3
appeared as though the crimes had been recently

committed?
4
5
A.
I was told that by Captain McNamara, but I did
not see the complaint.
Q.
You never saw this affidavit?
A.
Mr. Caruso's affidavit?
I did not.
No, sir.
8
9
Q.
You responded because you were told by Captain
McNamara?
10
11 it.
THE COURT:
Sustain that.
We covered
12
13
14
Q.
A.
Q.
Who was your affidavit provided to?

After I signed it?
Yes.
15
A.
Captain McNamara.
16
17
Q.
A.
Do you know what he did with it?

No, sir.
18
19
20
21
Q.
Do you know whether or not it was provided by
Captain McNamara to Mr. Rones?

THE COURT:
from there?
You don't
know where it went
22
THE WITNESS:
No,
sir.
I don't.
23
24
25
Q.
this
A.
Did you expect it would somehow makes its way to

Court?
Yes.
-11/1/11-
23
2
3
Q.
Order of
You did not arrest Mr. Caruso for violating the

Protection in 2011?
A.
No,
sir.
Q.
You did not have cause for him being arrested
6
7
8
for violating the Order of Protection at any time since

August 4, 2011?
A. No, sir.
9
10 11
12
13
Q.
Were you made aware by Sheriff Smith or Captain
McNamara there was a court proceeding scheduled for September 26th of 2011, regarding Mr. Caruso's case?
A. Can you ask the question again?
THE COURT: Rephrase.
14
15 16
17
Q.
Were you made aware either by Captain McNamara
or Sheriff Smith that there was a court appearance being schedule for Mr.
A. I don't
Caruso's case for September 26,

recall.
2011?
18
Q.
Your affidavit was signed September 23rd,
which
19 20
21
is a Friday.
I'm telling -THE COURT:

MR. RUBIN:
Date speaks for itself.

The next working day is the
22
26th,
which is the following Monday.
23
24 2 3rd.
THE COURT:
Actually September 20 what,
25
MR.
RUBIN:
September 23rd,
Friday.
-11/1/11-
24
1
2
A.G.
SCHRAMEK
THE
DIRECT
MR.
RUBIN
the calendar on
COURT:
Accordi ng
to
3 4
this
desk.
MR.
RUBIN:
Septemb er 26th is that
5 6
7 8
for
Monday.
Q.
the
Did Captain McNamara tell y ou it was important

affidav it
to be signed for any particular
reason?
A.
Again,
for clarification for the Court,

Kraus' affidavit.
in
10
11 12 13 14
15 16 17
18
response to Ms.
Q.
Not in response to Mr. Caruso's affidavit?

THE COURT: Sustained. We covered that.
Q.
Did you have any personal discussion with Mr.
Rones or anyone else in the law firm regarding filing of

this affidavit?
A.
Other than Mr.
Rones
or his
office?
I believe
it was Mr.
that Ms.
Rones who originally called me to tell me
Kraus had filed her affidavit and mentioned my

Other than that, no.
19 20
21 22 23
24
name in it.
Q.
It was at this time that you said that you were
asked to prepared the affidavit by him?

A. No.
Q.
A.
He just informed you?

Yes, sir.
25
Q.
Did you bring that to the attention of your

11/1/11
25
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR. RUBIN
2
3
superiors?
A. Yes.
4
5
6
Q.
They told you to submit this affidavit in
response?
THE COURT: Sustained.
7
8 question.
MR.
RUBIN:
I may have asked this
THE COURT:
I'll let you know.
10
MR. RUBIN:
I'm sure you will.
11
Q.
Does your office maintain a record of
12
13
14
15
notification responses to DCJS made by sex offenders who

are required to notify DCJS?
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
Do you understand that?

No, sir.
16
THE COURT:
Clarify.
17
18
Q.
their
Sex offenders are required to notify DCJS of

residences?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Does the Sheriff's Department receive
21
22
23
notification regarding location of these sex offenders

who register?
A. Yes, sir.
24
25
Q.
A.
Did you receive that in this particular case?

I don't know.
-11/1/11
26
A.G.
SCHRAMEK
DIRECT
MR.
RUBIN
2 3 4
Q.
looked
Caruso' A.
From August 4th to today's date,
have you ever
to see if there were any from DCJS regarding Mr.

s registration?
There was an affidavit from DCJS.
6
7 8
Q.
A.
That
he
said what?
They had not received any notification of Mr.

whereabouts.
Caruso' s
9 10 11
12
Q.
A.
Any particular date?

I would have to refer back to the case folder.
Q.
A.
Do you have the case folder?
Yeah,
I have a copy.
13 14
15
Q.
A.
Do you have the case folder?

Yes, sir.
Q.
Can you refer to it?
16 17
18
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
Did you find it,

Yes.
Chief?
Q.
A.
Did you answer that,
Chief?
19
20
According to the documents, review of this file

Mr. Caruso notified DCJS his address,
file indicates that Mr.
indicat es
Heidi
21
22 23
Motel,
review of this
Caruso
notifie d
DCJS that his address was Heidi Motel,
Route
22, room 12, Brewster, New York, 10509, on sex offender

change of address form dated 6/29/11,
sex off ender
24 25
certified copy of
change of address form is attached.

11/1/11
DCJS
27
2
3
has not received any subsequent change of address from

Mr. Caruso.
4
5
Q.
A.
What is the date of that form, that affidavit?

8th day of September, 2011.
6
7
Q.
Did you check the Sheriff's Department records

regarding
to see if there was notification from DCJS,
8
9
10
change of address, besides that affidavit you obtained

from -- where did you obtain that affidavit?
A. No, sir.
11
Q.
Besides that one affidavit did you check to see
12
13
if there was any notifications of change of address?

A. Yes.
14
15
Q.
that?
With whom?
Does your department have copies of
16
A.
We have it in this file.
17
Q.
Sex offender change of address form for Mr.
18
19
20
Caruso that was apparently taken by the Town of Carmel

Police Department, when, August 2nd, 2011?
A. August 2nd, 2011.
21
22
Q.
A.
Do you know who obtained these documents?

Obtained them?
23
Q.
For the Sheriff's Department.
24
25
A.
Q.
I would say it would be Investigator Trisanelli.

You didn't search your own, to see if there were
-11/1/11-
28
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
other notifications
from DCJS regarding Mr.
Caruso
filing a change of address?
A.
These are the only records that I am aware of.
Q.
Are you aware he notified Probation and the
6
7
Carmel Police of every change of address that he had?

A. I don't know if he notified every change.
8
9
10
Q.
A.
Q.
More than one occasion you're reading there?

One occasion, yes.
How about the Probation Department?
11
A.
Probation Department, that he had gone in and
12
13
14 15
spoke to his probation officer and let them know where

he was staying.
Q. A. At all times, correct, as far as you know? but as far as I know.
I don't know all times,
16
17
18
MR.
RUBIN:
No other questions.
Anything?
Yes.
THE COURT:
MS. KRAUS:
19
20
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. KRAUS:
21
Q.
Good afternoon,
Chief.
How are you?
22
A.
Good.
How are you?
23
24
25
Q.
Very well.
How long have you been with the
Sheriff's
A.
Department?
2003.
Since
11/1/11-
29
2
3
Q.
How many men do you have working for you in the
Bureau of Criminal Investigations?
A.
Oh,
boy.
Approximately 20.
Q.
You are basically their boss; is that correct?
A.
I'm Commanding Officer Bureau of Internal
7
8
Criminal Investigations Unit, Narcotics Enforcement and

Identification Units.
9 10
11
Q.
Your office works very closely on various
matters with the District Attorney's office; is that

correct?
12
A.
Absolutely.
13
Q.
Often you will call the District Attorney's
14
15 16
Office during an investigation, during criminal matters;

is that A. correct? Yes.
17
Q.
In this situation when you received a copy of
18 19
20
you indicated that you had submitted an affirmation in response to the District Attorney's notice of motion?
A. That is correct.
21
Q.
You testified you submitted a response,
22
23
testified to what you agreed to within that motion?

A. That is correct.
24 25
Q.
I did not hear and perhaps I missed it, what did
you disagree with specifically in the District

-11/1/11-
30
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
2
3
Attorney's motion that caused you to make that

affirmation?
4
5
A.
needed
What
--
I needed was
clarification.
What we
6
7
8
Q.
Question,
I'm sorry, Chief,
I want to make this
as quick as possible for the Court.

THE COURT: Go ahead. Be careful
interrupting him.
10
11
A.
The fact that the meeting that we had at your

focus on the transient movement of Mr.
office did not
12
Caruso as it did the investigations at hand.
13
14
15
Q.
Investigation being that your office had
information that he had failed to register; is that

correct?
16
17
A.
That,
as well as any kind of report that he
violated the Order of Protection.
18
Q.
We'll get back to that.
19
Going back to the affirmation, move onto the
20
21
22
23
meeting, in all your years since 2003 had you ever

submitted an.affirmation to clarify the District
Attorney's motion?
A. No.
24 25
Q.
Prior to submitting that affirmation, had you
called the District Attorney's Office to speak with

-11/1/11
31
2
3
anybody in regards to your concern about that motion?

A. No, ma'am.
4
5
6
Q.
And normally have you ever testified in a
criminal proceeding before or at a hearing?

A. Yes, ma'am.
7
8
Q.
A.
Or Grand Jury?
Yes, ma'am.
9
10
Q.
Normally when you testify at a hearing,
who
would prepare your testimony with you?
11
12
A.
Q.
Usually the District Attorney's Office.

In this matter who prepared your testimony?
13
14
A.
My testimony was given based on the affidavit
that I signed.
15
16
17
Q.
Who sat with you and prepared your testimony
with you?
THE COURT: Question is?
18
19
20
Q.
Did anybody,
I apologize,
did anybody sit with
you to discuss your testimony before coming to court

here today?
21
A.
No.
Other than Captain McNamara,
the Sheriff,
22
23
24
the meeting that I had with those two, myself, again,

that's what was the result of that meeting.
no further discussions after that.
There were
25
Q.
Have you met outside legal counsel other than
11/1/11
32
2
3 4
the District Attorney's Office prior to testifying here

today? A. I spoke to, yes.
5
6
7
Q.
The meetings that we've been discussing on or

is that correct?
about August 4th;

A. Yes,
ma'am.
8
9
Q.
A.
You were present at that meeting; correct?

Yes, ma'am.
10
11
12
Q.
present?
A.
Senior Investigator Patrick Castaldo was
That's
correct.
13
Q.
In fact, do you recall at some point Senior
14 15
16
17
Investigator Castaldo had to leave that meeting.
He
received a phone call from Mr. Whittaker that Mario

Caruso is back in his home;
A. I don't recall that.
is that correct?
18 19
20 21
Q.
Do you recall at some point close proximity in received a call
time Senior Investigator Castaldo (ph.),

from Mr. home?
Whittaker that Mario Caruso was back in his
22 23
24
THE COURT: message like that?

THE WITNESS:
Do you recall any kind of
No,
I don't.
25
Q.
Did senior Investigator Castaldo ever personally

-11/1/11-
33
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
2
3
4
go to confirm whether. Mario Caruso was in his home or

not in August?
A. I don't know.
Q.
Investigator Trisanelli was present at that
6
7
August meeting?
A. Yes.
8
9
Q.
A.
Investigator Nalbone (ph.)?

I'm not sure. I don't remember him being there.
10
11
Q.
A.
Lieutenant Brian Cars (ph.),

Yes.
from Carmel Police?
12
Q.
Deborah Giordonello from the Probation
13
14
Department?
A. Yes.
15
16 is
Q.
And members of the District Attorney's Office;
that correct?
17
18
19 in
A.
Q.
this.
I believe just you.

That is correct. I can't make myself a witness
20
21
22
At that meeting you testified that the focus was

not the transient nature of Mr. Caruso; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
23
Q.
The focus was that you had reason to believe two
24
25
things.
A.
One, that he failed to register?

Right.
-11/1/11-
34
1 2
3
A.G. SCHRAMEK - DIRECT - MR. RUBIN Q.

A.
That's a felony; isn't that correct?

That's correct.
4
5
Q.
A.
That's a mandatory arrest?

I believe it is.
6
7
8
Q.
Was Mr. Caruso ever arrested for his failure to
register?
A. No.
9
10
Q.
correct?
That meeting occurred August 4th; is that
11
A.
Yes,
ma'am.
12
13
14
15
Q.
At some point Investigator Trisanelli filled out
a police report in regards to what occurred at that

meeting;
A.
is that correct?
Yes, ma'am.
16
17
Q.
I could show it to you,

2011;
you filed that report,
dated October 18,
is that correct.
18
THE COURT:
Do you have something to
19
20
refresh your memory?

THE WITNESS: If I could refresh my
21
22
memory?
THE COURT: Sure.
23
24
Q.
A.
First line in that?

Yes. I see that.
25
Q.
That's dated October 18,

-11/1/11-
2011?
35
1
2 A.
A.G.
That's
SCHRAMEK correct.
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
3
4 5
Q.
A.
Is
that
correct?
correct.
That's
Q.
In that report Investigator Trisanelli discusses

isn't that correct?
6
7
the meeting on August 4th;

A. Yes, ma'am.
Q.
At which you were present?
9 10
11
A.
For most of it, yes.
If you recall,
I came in,
I didn't come in at the beginning of the meeting.

Q. At that meeting this report, which was filed
12 13
14
October 18th,
states that the District Attorney's office
instructed you that they would not take statements.

They needed two photographs; of that meeting? A. I don't know about taking statements. It's my is that your recollection
15
16 17
recollection we tried to get video and photographs.

THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
18
19
Did you finish?

Yes, sir.
20
21
22
Q.
Did any members of the District Attorney's
Office at the August 4th meeting instruct you not to
make an arrest on Mario Caruso for failure to register

or for going into his home? A. At that point in time we were told to do more
23
24
25
investigation on that. 11/1/11
36
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
2
3
Q.
At that point in time had you contacted DCJS to

Caruso had actually failed to
corroborate whether Mr.
4
5
register?
A. I did not.
6
7
8
Q.
I'm going to show you a 15-page document that I
will ask to be deemed marked People's Exhibit Number 1.

Take a look at that, Chief, tell me if you
recognize that?
10
11 12 A. Q.
Do you recognize what those are documents of?

Yes, ma'am.
What are those documents?
13
14
A.
form.
Copies of the sex offender change of address
15
16
Q.
And prior to the decision -- withdrawn.

And is that from DCJS?
17
18
19
a.
I don't know if they were required from DCJS,
although they probably are.

MR. RUBIN: I will ask the Court to take
20
21
judicial notice those are required.

THE COURT: I can't take
22
MR. RUBIN:
I apologize.
23
24 of that.
THE COURT:
I can't take judicial notice
25
Q.
Can you take a look at that and see how many

11/1/11-
37
2
3
motels it would appear Defendant registered at?

A. I believe there are four.
4
5
Q.
So, would it be fair to say -- withdrawn.

thank you.
That's all for that,
MR.
RUBIN:
I've never seen this
7
8
document.
May I take a look at it?

THE COURT: Yes, you may.
9
10
11
Q.
At that August 4th meeting was it discussed that
if the Defendant were actually in fact in violation of

that Order of Protection and back in his home he would
12
13
14
15
absolutely be arrested?
A.
Q.
Office
Yes,
ma'am.
Was it discussed at the District Attorney's

and with other members there that it would be
16
beneficial if there were surveillance conducted,
in
17
18
order to corroborate or prove if he was in that

residence?
19
A.
Yes.
20
21
Q.
I forgot how long you testified that
surveillance went on for?
22
A.
Sporadically.
On and off for a few weeks.
23
24 25
Q.
A. Q.
How many days a week?

I don't know, ma'am.
As a result of that surveillance was Mr. Caruso

-11/1/11-
38
2
3
arrested for violating the Order of Protection?

A. No, ma'am, he was not.
Q.
In that same report that we discussed that was
5
6
7
filed October 18th, 2011 and I ask you to take a look at

it for
A.
moment.
Sure.
8
9
Q.
The last statement by Investigator Trisanelli,
it determined or states that as per conversation with
10
11
12
Senior Investigator Castaldo, met with Captain McNamara,

this case will be handled by the Probation Department
because of their failure to advise him he must register;
13
14
did you see that,

A. Yes.
sir?
15
Q.
Are you saying that you received information
16
17
that the Probation Department failed to advise Mario

Caruso that he has to register as a sex offender?
18
19
20
A.
Q.
A.
No, ma'am.
I'm not saying that.
Isn't that what that seems to indicate?

That's what it indicates.
21
Q.
I'm also going to ask you to take a look in your
22
23
file.
There is a closed case report, if you can take
look at that.
24
25 A.
What's the date of that report, sir?

October 23rd, 2011.
-11/1/11-
39
Q.
Is that the date that this report regarding Mr.
3
4
Caruso being back in his home was closed out?

A. Yes.
5
6
7
Q.
there.
A.
And it seems there is a box that's checked off

Can you read what that box says?
Summary.
8
9
Q.
A.
First I'll ask you what the box says?

This is number three, correct.
10
THE COURT:
You can say what the box
11
says.
12
13
Q.
There is box says X, office prosecution

is that correct?
declined;
14
15
16
A.
Q.
Office
Exceptional clearance.
Prosecution declined.
Did any members of the District Attorney's

ever advise the Sheriff's office not to make an
17
18
arrest,
Order of
either for failure to register or violating the

Protection in this matter?
19
A.
As I said,
the DA's office, based on
20
21
conversations we had, asked us to do more investigating

on this.
22
Q.
After you did more investigating --
23
THE COURT:
Ask the question.
24
25
Q.
After you did further investigation, did any
member of the District Attorney's office ever instruct

-11/1/11-
40
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT - MR. RUBIN
2
3
you not to make an arrest for failure to register?

A. No.
4
5
Q.
After you did your investigation, did any
members of the District Attorney's Office advise you not
6
7
to make an arrest for violating the Order of Protection?

A. No.
Q.
Are you aware that one of your investigators
9
10 11
12
actually called the District Attorney's Office and

informed them that they had been instructed to arrest Mario Caruso for failure to register?
A. No, ma'am.
13
14
Q.
matter,
Shortly after you were subpoenaed in this

on or about October 14th, the Sheriff's Office
15 16
17
had a meeting with the County Attorney's office, your attorneys in this matter; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
18 19
Q.
And four days later that's when Senior
investigator Trisanelli's report was issued closing out,
20 21
apologize, four days later, that's when Investigator Trisanelli's report was issued as to what happened at
22
23
the August 4th meeting; is that correct?

A. I believe so.
24
Q.
Did you advise Investigator Trisanelli how to
25
fill out a report as to what happened at that August 4th

11/1/11-
41
1
2
3

meeting?
A. No, ma'am.
4
5
Q.
A.
Do you know who advised him?

No, ma'am.
6
7
Q.
A.
Did he show you that report before he issued it?

No, ma'am.
8
9
Q.
That would be better answered by Senior
Investigator Trisanelli?
10
11
A.
Better answered by Senior Investigator Castaldo,
his supervisor.
12
13
14
15
Q.
It appears your concern and what it took for you
to supply your affirmation to the Rones firm, Mr. Rones

was the District Attorney's Office term, transient
nature in their motion; is that correct?
16
A.
If I can make one correction?
I did not supply
17
my affidavit to Mr. Rones'
office.
18
19 20 21
Q.
A. Q.
Okay.
You signed your affidavit?

That is correct.
I have signed my affidavit.
Part of the reason that you felt it was you were
important to write that affidavit was why,
22 23
concerned about the prosecution term, in regard to the August 4th meeting?
transient nature
24
25
A.
Most important I did not want to give the
impression it was focussed because of the transient

-11/1/11-
42
1
2 3
A.G.
SCHRAMEK -
DIRECT -
MR.
RUBIN
nature of Mr.
Caruso,
but rather the investigation we
were handling at the time to consult the DA's office. Q.

present;
A.
4 5
6
7
At that meeting we had Carmel Police Department

is that correct?
Yes.
Q.
The reason Carmel was requested to be there was
8
9
to make sure the right hand knew what the left hand was
doing;
A.
would that be
Yes.
correct?
10
11 12
Q.
Every agency involved in monitoring Mario Caruso
was aware what the other agency was doing?

A. Yes, ma'am.
13
14
15
16
Q. meeting;
A.
So we discussed Mario Caruso during that is

Yes,
that correct?
ma'am.
17
MS.
KRAUS:
No further questions.
18
19
20 21 22 23
THE COURT:
MR. RUBIN:
Anything else?
No, your Honor.
THE COURT:
Chief,
you may step down.
(Witness left the stand.)
THE COURT:
Come on up.
(Side-bar off the record.)

THE COURT: On the record.
24 25
Mr.
Fusco,
your Order to Show Cause,
-11/1/11-

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SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK

20 County Center Carmel, New York November 1, 2011

Justice of the Supreme Court

Testimony of Gerald A. Schramek

Mary C. Traynor Senior Court Reporter

ADAM LEVY, ESQ.

Putnam County District Attorney

Attorney for the People

Carmel, New York 10512

MANCUSO, RUBIN & FUFIDIO, ESQS

Attorneys for the Defendant

White Plains, New York 10601

SPAIN & SPAIN, ESQS.

671 Route 6, Suite 1 Mahopac, New York 10541

CALLAHAN & FUSCO, LLC Attorneys for Putnam County

New York, New York 10005

WILLIAM G. SAYEGH, P.C. Attorney for the

The Sayeoh Building

Carmel, New York 10512 BY: KENNETH S. RONES, ESQ.

(Witness took the stand.)

THE COURT OFFICER:

Do you swear the

evidence you are about to give in the matter

truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

THE COURT OFFICER:

State your name,

spell your last name and your County of residence,

THE WITNESS: S-C-H-R-A-M-E-K. County.

A period Gerald Schramek,

County of residence is Putnam

Please be seated, Chief.

Good afternoon, Chief Schramek.

Chief, when did you become -- are you familiar

The original case I am not familiar

When did you become involved with Mr. Caruso?

Past, I would say the past two or three months.

Were you, if I pinpoint the time of late July,

early August, is that a fair estimate of when you may

A.G. SCHRAMEK - DIRECT - MR. ROBIN

Could you pinpoint an event that caused you to

become involved with, I'm using word involved, I can't

Was there some events that occurred?

Let me get more specific.

Did you become

involved when there was some information provided by

probation or the Sheriff's Department that Mr. Caruso

I got involved actually after that, sir.

a guess, maybe about a month

Are you aware that the Sheriff's Department set

up surveillance of Mr. Caruso in the days following

Were you at all involved in supervising that

part of the investigation?

So that were you present at a meeting with the

District Attorney's Office and Probation Department,

possibly the Carmel Police Department, regarding Mr.

or about August 4th.

that meeting were there discussions

a man by the name of Mr.

any arrest made

And did you have undercover police officers

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