Floyd Norman: Story Of A Storyman

Floyd Norman was born in 1936. 20 years later, he began at Disney as an inbetweener on Sleeping Bea ty, !he Sword in the Stone and "ary #oppins, as well as many o$ the St dio%s short &artoons. B t he%s more a&'nowledged $or his n mero s &ontrib tions to Disney as a storyman (e)en tho gh he ne)er had any intention to do that *ob+,, &reating stories $or !he - ngle Boo', re&ently released in a 2.dis& #latin m /dition D0D. From then on, he &ontrib ted to many Disney &lassi&s, and his e1pertise on e)erything &on&erning animation and his 'nowledge abo t 2alt%s time ma'es him one o$ today%s essential 3go to4 people when it &omes to Disney lore. !hat%s the reason he was &alled pon to get in)ol)ed in some o$ the "o se%s re&ent pro*e&ts, s &h as " lan and Dinosa r, and was in demand at #i1ar to help $lesh o t stories s &h as !oy Story 2 and "onsters, 5n&. No s rprise, then, that he was made a Disney 6egend last 7&tober 2008, a more than $itting honor $or s to se as an e1& se $or loo' ba&' on a legendary 9 and gen inely ni&e 9 artist%s e1traordinary &areer in animation:

Animated Views; 2hat was yo r rea&tion when yo learned yo had been nominated as a Disney 6egend< Floyd Norman; 2ell, s rprise+ =lways s rprise:ama>ement:that wo ld be it. 5t was * st s &h a sho&'ing s rprise. 5t%s a great honor, o$ &o rse, and it%s 'ind o$ hard to e)al ate one%s sel$. 5 ne)er tho ght that 5 wo ld be sele&ted $or this parti& lar honor, b t it%s * st a wonder$ l thing when it &omes yo r way+ AV; !he Disney 6egend award &elebrates the $a&t that yo were part o$ Disney history. ?ow did yo arri)e at the Disney St dio< FN; 5 arri)ed in Febr ary o$ 19@6 as a yo ng 'id * st o t o$ art s&hool. Ba&' in those days they had what was sort o$ a training program $or potential new employees, and what they wo ld do, they wo ld bring in yo ng 'ids and p t them thro gh a month.long training program. !hose who &ame thro gh that program and showed they had promise $or a &areer at Disney, then they wo ld be hired on as sort o$ a temporary employee. =nd so 5 was l &'y eno gh to be sele&ted as part o$ that training program, and 5 did my month o$ training, and then a$ter that 5 $o nd o t that they were going to 'eep, 5 thin', aro nd se)en or eight o$ s, and they 'ept s on. AV; 2hat were among yo r $irst assignments< FN; !hey tried to start o t all the trainees on simple things. !he $irst thing 5 remember wor'ing on was The Mickey Mouse Club, whi&h was a pop lar !0 show at the time, and 5 wor'ed on the Disneyland tele)ision show. 2alt Disney has * st gotten into tele)ision, and so 5 was on the !0 show that was going and they were still doing animated shorts. So that%s how most o$ s started o t, doing what was &onsidered, 5 g ess yo %d &all, the simpler 'inds o$ animation. !hings li'e that, $or tele)ision, be&a se it too' a while be$ore one &o ld grad ate p the ladder to wor' on the $eat re $ilms. AV; =nd s re eno gh yo were soon mo)ed to the Sleeping Beauty pro*e&t. FN; Not so soon, b t abo t a year or so, maybe a year and a hal$ be$ore 5 was able to be worthy, 5 g ess yo might say, o$ wor'ing on Sleeping Beauty. Ba&' in those days the $eat re &rew was &onsidered the most e1perien&ed, the most &apable. 5t was really an honor to be &hosen to wor' on a $eat re.

AV; 2hat did yo do on Sleeping Beauty< FN; 2ell 5 was what they &alled in those days an animation inbetweener, whi&h means yo were an assistant. 5 sho ld e1plain that ba&' in those days the animation &rew were $airly large. !here was an animator and the animator wo ld ha)e assistant animators, and those assistants wo ld ha)e assistants, and so all down the line yo were part o$ a pretty si>able &rew who wor'ed on these $ilms. AV; =s an inbetweener, whi&h spe&i$i& s&enes do yo remember wor'ing on< FN; 7n Sleeping Beauty some o$ the early s&enes 5 wor'ed on in)ol)ed the horse, 5 thin' his name was Samson. 5 did some wor' on the #rin&e, and then abo t si1 months or so a$ter that Disney p t together nits to $o& s on &ertain &hara&ters, so 5 be&ame part o$ the &rew wor'ing on the three $airies, and that was going to be by assignment thro gho t the d ration o$ the $ilm. Be&a se to get the $ilms done they wo ld set p these nits and ea&h nit wo ld $o& s on a parti& lar &hara&ter. So $or nearly two and a hal$ years, $or the remainder o$ Sleeping Beauty, we $o& sed on the three $airies, Flora, Fa na and "erryweather. AV; 5n an inter)iew that yo did that was p blished in Didier Ahe>% Walts People, 5 B ote yo said; 3=$ter wor'ing onSleeping Beauty a Disney artist was B ali$ied to ha)e their hands on anything4. Can yo e1plain that please< FN; Ba&' in those days the training amd the demands o$ the art was so )igoro s that yo really had to 'now yo r st $$ to do that parti& lar 'ind o$ wor'. So the artists were really p t thro gh their pa&es, and the people yo wor'ed $or were )ery demanding. 5 o$ten *o'e abo t that they were &on&erned abo t the length o$ an eyelash on a &hara&ter, there was great attention to detail, and so a$ter going thro gh that, that 'ind o$ wor', one wo ld be B ali$ied to do pretty m &h anything. - st be&a se the wor' was so demanding, and i$ yo met that standard, yo &o ld pretty m &h wor' on anything. AV; ?ow did yo meet the Nine 7ld "en and what 'ind o$ a relationship did yo ha)e with them< 2ere yo &loser to 2ard Dimball or Fran' and 7llie< FN; 2ell, to tell yo the tr th, ba&' in those days yo really didn%t ha)e any intera&tion with the Nine 7ld "en. 2hen yo were part o$ an animation &rew, yo were generally wor'ing $or an assistant who wor'ed $or another, higher assistant and they wor'ed with the animators, that might ha)e been one o$ the Nine 7ld "en. So we seldom e)en saw the Nine 7ld "en:we &ertainly didn%t intera&t with them be&a se we were &ertainly not on that le)el. Eo 'now, it%s 'ind o$ li'e there was a pe&'ing order and they were at the top and we were at the bottom. 5t wasn%t ntil years later that 5 got a &han&e to meet and wor' with the Nine 7ld "en, g ys li'e Fran' !homas, "ilt Dahl, "ar& Da)is, 7llie -ohnston, 2ard Dimball and others. B t that didn%t &ome ntil a$ter 5%d been at the St dio probably $or at least abo t $o r or $i)e years. AV; Eo mentioned "ilt Dahl FrightG, who 5 nderstand yo wor'ed &losely with $or The Sword In The Stone< FN; !hat%s &orre&t, yes. =$ter $inishing One undred !nd One Dal"atians 5 was going to sign to wor' with "ilt Dahl on The Sword In The Stone, and that was one o$ the $ew $eat res that 5 a&t ally wor'ed on $rom start to $inish, as part o$ "ilt Dahl%s nit. AV; "ilt is ob)io sly )ery $amo s $or what we%ll deli&ately re$er to as 3his temper4. FN; "ilt Dahl was B ite an interesting $ig re all by himsel$+ Eo &an tal' abo t being a legend, hes legendary. 7 t o$ all the e1tremely gi$ted artists, he drewe#tre"ely well. ?e was a $antasti& dra ghtsman. ?e was also 'nown $or his )olatile temper. ?e was a )ery dynami&, )ery o tspo'en gentleman who had no B alms abo t spea'ing his mind and ma'ing his $eelings $elt. So he was B ite a &hara&ter all by himsel$. AV; 2hat was yo r wor'ing relationship li'e with him< FN; "y relationship was $ine a&t ally:as yo ng 'ids we were all $rightened o$ him+ ?e &o ld be a )ery s&ary 'ind o$ g y. B t as the years went on 5 $o nd that 5 had a )ery good

relationship with "r Dahl. 2e didn%t &all anybody 3"r4 by the way, e)erybody at the St dio was on a $irst name basis, e)en tho gh they might ha)e been old eno gh to be yo r $ather yo %d still &all them by their $irst name. So my relationship with "ilt was )ery good. 5 thin' it was be&a se 5 was able to ma'e him la gh+ 5 o$ten $eel my ability $or $ nny gags and ma'e people la gh seemed to help me disarm e)en the most $ero&io s &hara&ters at Disney, yo 'now+ 5 thin' ma'e them la gh and 5 be&ame their $riend that way. AV; 5n The Sword In The Stone do yo ha)e any $a)orite s&ene that yo parti& larly remember wor'ing with "ilt on< FN; 7h well+ 5 g ess 5 sho ld, b t sin&e 5 wor'ed with "ilt thro gho t the entire $ilm it%s di$$i& lt to &hoose one. 5 will say that one o$ the seB en&es 5 $elt 5 had the most $ n with was with "adam "im, she was o r )illain, the &ra>y little wit&h, who was )ery &olor$ l as well as a s&ary &hara&ter. 2or'ing on that with "ilt Dahl was probably the &hara&ter 5 en*oyed the most. AV; !he ne1t $ilm on whi&h yo wor'ed was Mary Poppins and that was with Fran' !homas< FN; No, 5 ne)er a&t ally wor'ed with Fran' !homas. Fran' and the other o$ the Nine 7ld "en were all in the same area, b t 5 didn%t a&t ally wor' with !homas on that $ilm. 5 &ertainly saw him on a reg lar basis, and 5 saw his wor', b t when 5 thin' ba&' to the animators 5 wor'ed with, there was -ohn 6o nsbery, "ilt Dahl:there were B ite a n mber o$ others 5 might ha)e wor'ed with, b t not Fran' !homas, e)en tho gh 5 did see Fran' B ite o$ten and &ertainly 5 en*oyed his wor'. AV; 2hat did yo do on Mary Poppins< FN; =gain 5 was an assistant animator. 2hat the assistant did was to ta'e the s&enes $rom ro gh animation that was pro)ided by the animator and then $inalise that animation. !hat is, p t in all the e1tra drawings that might be ne&essary thro gh the $inal &lean p drawings, be&a se the drawings start o t )ery loose and )ery ro gh. !hey ha)e to be $inalised, so that they%re )ery &lean, $inalised drawings. So that was my tas' on Mary Poppins. !hey hadn%t made me an animator yet, so 5 wasn%t doing any animation as s &h, b t 5 was wor'ing on the animated s&enes by $inalising the ro gh drawings. AV; 2hose assistant were yo < Co ld it &hange d ring the prod &tion o$ a $ilm, $or e1ample on The Sword In The Stonedid yo go $rom "ilt Dahl to another animator or was it &ontin o s thro gh the prod &tion o$ a $ilm< FN; 5 assisted a n mber o$ animators. /)eryone $rom "ilt Dahl, to =rt Ste)ens, to 2ard Dimball. B t generally they li'ed the same people. 2e tho ght o$ animation li'e a team, so in the &ase o$ my wor'ing with "ilt Dahl on The Sword In The Stone 5 only wor'ed with Dahl on that parti& lar $ilm. !hat%s the way the St dio pre$erred things to wor' o t. !here may be o&&asions where an assistant might wor' with a n mber o$ di$$erent animators b t that was rare. !hey s ally li'ed to 'eep a gro p inta&t. So i$ yo were assigned to one animator the &han&es are yo were going to wor' with that one person thro gho t the d ration o$ a $ilm. AV; =nd then a$ter Mary Poppins yo went $rom animation to the story department. FN; Ees, aro nd that time, 5 g ess. !here were a lot o$ things going on besides the $eat re $ilms, and 5 'now 5 did wor' on other things a$ter Mary Poppins. 5 thin' 5 was wor'ing on &artoons be$ore being sent to story. AV; ?ow did yo end p in story< 2as it yo r personal &hoi&e< FN; 7ddly eno gh it was not my personal &hoi&e+ !he story department was a highly &o)eted position at !he 2alt Disney St dio. = lot o$ people wanted to be in story b t &o ld not e)en get near to story. 5n my &ase 5 wanted to be an animator, 5 had no aspirations o$ wor'ing in the story department, and yet somehow one day my boss &alled me in and told me that 5 wo ld be p t pstairs into the story department. =nd honestly 5 ha)e no idea why 5 was gi)en that assignment+ B t ba&' in those days yo did what yo were told:5 was told 5 was being ta'en $rom animation to go wor' in story, be&a se that%s where they wanted me, and so that%s e1a&tly what 5 did. AV; =nd this was on The $ungle Book< FN; Ees, right, it was on The $ungle Book. !he master story man, who had wor'ed at Disney%s sin&e the 1930s, had * st B it the $ilm.

AV; Eo mean Bill #eet< FN; Hight. ?e * st B itI he got into an arg ment with 2alt Disney and wal'ed o$$ the $ilm. =nd so the $ilm had to be totally redone be&a se 2alt Disney was not happy with it. ?e wanted to do a whole new ta'e on The $ungle Book and 5 was part o$ that new &rew that was going to &ome in and reshape the mo)ie. B t how 5 got that *ob 5 honestly do not 'now. 5 spe& late that it might ha)e been one o$ the senior animators that might ha)e re&ommended me:5 don%t 'now, it might ha)e e)en been 2alt Disney himsel$. AV; 2ith Bill #eet%s )ersion, we%)e heard abo t a m &h dar'er, serio s )ersion. 5s that &orre&t< FN; Ees it was. 5 &an%t tell yo a great deal abo t it be&a se it%s been so many years. 5 remember going to Bill #eet%s o$$i&e and loo'ing at his ta'e on the boo' and &an tell yo one thing, that it was &loser to Dipling%s original story than to the $ilm we e)ent ally made. !hat was the big arg ment 2alt Disney had with Bill #eet, that he didn%t want to do Dipling, he wanted to do his own )ersion o$ The $ungle Book. ?e really wanted )ery little $rom the Dipling story, other than the basi& o)erall premise and the &hara&ters. =s $ar as the way that Dipling had told the story, Disney * st $elt the story was m &h too dar':he wanted more lightness, he wanted h mor, and that%s why he and Bill #eet 'ind o$ got into a $ight, o)er the story. AV; Did yo r )ersion go thro gh &hanges< !here was a deleted &hara&ter, Ho&'y the Hhino, $or e1ample that was in an early )ersion. FN; 2ell yo 'now, in the de)elopment o$ a Disney $ilm, a lot o$ times we try o t many things in de)eloping the story. Ho&'y the Hhino was a seB en&e that was in the $ilmI a seB en&e 2alt Disney didn%t parti& larly &are $or, and so that seB en&e was & t $rom the mo)ie. B t that is not at all n s al, it happens all the time. AV; Do yo remember any other seB en&es that were deleted< FN; !o be B ite honest, there were probably other s&enes & t $rom the $ilm that 5 s spe&t we &an no longer remember. 5 do 'now that the reason that Ho&'y stays in mind is be&a se that was a seB en&e that 2alt Disney particularly disli'ed. =nd so that one 'ind o$ stands o t in my mind, altho gh li'e 5 said, all the time many, many seB en&es are & t $rom a $ilm d ring the story de)elopment, so it%s not at all n s al. 5t%s * st part o$ the $ilmma'ing pro&ess. AV; 2hen yo were &oming p with stories, was this sing storyboards< Can yo tell s abo t that pro&ess< FN; !he Disney St dios has always de)eloped their stories on the storyboard rather than on s&ript pages. 5t%s 'nown as )is al storytelling, and that is instead o$ a writer des&ribing the story in words, as any writer &an s ally do, we wo ld a&t ally start with artwor', and as opposed to starting o t with dialog e, or words, or des&riptions, we wo ld a&t ally start drawing. =nd then those drawings wo ld be arranged on a board in seB en&e, and that was how the story pro&ess at Disney began. 5t%s a pro&ess that began in the 1930s, a pro&ess that &ontin es to this day. !here is more o$ a relian&e on s&ripts today: n$ort nately that &ame to Disney in the early J0s when "i&hael /isner and -e$$rey Dat>enberg. Be&a se they &ame $rom a li)e.a&tion ba&'gro nd they were sed to ha)ing s&ripts and so they demanded that the animated $ilms ha)e s&ripts as well. =ltho gh to me 5 $eel that%s a handi&ap, not an aid. 5t really doesn%t help s m &h, in my opinion. 5 $eel that the story de)elopment pro&ess on storyboards is still $ar s perior to the s&ript page. AV; ?ow did yo pre$er to wor' in the storyboard times< FN; Eo &an wor' in any n mber o$ ways. = lot o$ story men li'e to wor' by themsel)es in a large room: Bill #eet wor'ed that way. 7thers li'e to &ollaborate, they li'e to wor' in a room with another artist so they &an toss ideas ba&' and $orth. =nd sometimes yo may e)en wor' in a large room with $i)e or si1 people and shoot aro nd ideas. So the pro&ess in)ol)es e)erything $rom being a single solitary artist wor'ing by his or hersel$, to a room $ ll o$ people all &ollaborating, tossing ideas ba&' and $orth. AV; 2hat was yo r pro&ess:did yo wor' alone or &ollaborate with other story men< FN; 5 li'e to wor' with other people aro nd. Sometimes there are times when one might want to wor' alone, and there%s nothing wrong with that, altho gh i$ 5 had my pre$eren&e, 5 wo ld tend to want to wor' with others, be&a se 5 li'e to ha)e somebody to, as they say, bo n&e the ideas o$$ o$. 5 li'e to throw o t an idea and see how people respond to it. So 5 probably pre$er not to wor' alone. AV; 2ho did yo li'e to wor' with< 6arry Clemmons, or others<

FN; 6arry Clemmons was one o$ the writers at Disney altho gh 5 didn%t e1a&tly wor' in the same gro p as 6arry, he and 5 wor'ed separately. B t my $a)orite &ollaborator was a Disney )eteran 'nown as 0an&e Aerry Fstanding, rightG. ?e was the person 5 wor'ed with on $ungle Book. !he two o$ s shared an o$$i&e and we were both &ollaborators. AV; =nd yo wo ld both throw ideas at ea&h other and see what wor'ed. FN; 7h yes, that%s how the pro&ess wor's. Eo try things that, i$ they don%t wor' yo throw o t, things that yo good, that are worth 'eeping, yo 'eep those ideas, and that%s how the whole pro&ess &omes together. ?ope$ lly yo %re 'eeping the best o$ what yo &ome p with. 5t%s 'ind o$ di$$i& lt to e1plain how it wor's. Eo sit down and yo start drawing, and yo %re trying to open yo rsel$ p to ideas:possibilities, and a way o$ letting yo r imagination roam. 5t%s di$$i& lt to e1plain the pro&ess be&a se 5 don%t ha)e any methodologyI 5 * st get to start thin'ing, start drawing, start trying things and * st try to see what wor's. =nd i$ yo get something good, then yo are )ery pleased. 5$ yo get something that%s not so good, then yo start o)er again. B t the pro&ess is li'e any 'ind o$ pro&ess:yo sort o$ ha)e to allow it to happen, yo &an%t $or&e it, yo &an%t ma'e it happen. AV; Do yo ha)e a $a)orite seB en&e that yo did $or The $ungle Book< FN; 7h, that wo ld be )ery di$$i& lt to tell yo . =s a story artist yo really don%t ha)e any $a)orites, and a $ilm is a )ery &ollaborati)e pro&ess so it%s di$$i& lt to ta'e ownership o)er anything, really, be&a se yo are in)ol)ed in a $ilm with a do>en or so other people and it%s di$$i& lt to say Kthey did this% or K5 did that%. Sometimes yo don%t e)en remember what yo did. 5 do 'now, to &hoose an e1ample $rom The $ungle Book, that the idea $or the sna'e and the song &ame initially $rom 6arry Clemmons. !hen, on&e we showed that to 2alt Disney, 2alt wo ld begin to embellish it, and it was 2alt Disney who de&ided that he sho ld ha)e a song. =nd when the Sherman Brothers had written the song $or s, then we were able to go ba&' to that seB en&e and approa&h it again and wor' on ideas. So it%s a )ery open, it%s a )ery dynami&, it%s a )ery organi& pro&ess and yo %re * st trying things to see what wor's. AV; Eo mentioned the Sherman Brothers. Did yo &ollaborate with them or did they * st pro)ide the song when it was done< FN; 2e &ollaborate as m &h as possible, we tal'ed with them and listened to the m si&, so there is an open &ollaboration. 5 li'e both the brothers )ery m &h and wor'ed with them on more than one o&&asion. !hat%s one o$ the ni&e things abo t being at the Disney St dios, is that yo %re with &reati)e people that are all willing to share their ideas, be it words, be it m si&, be it pi&t res. AV; !he meeting between "owgli and Daa also leans hea)ily on dialog e, so how sing the )is al storytelling method, how did yo shape s &h wordy s&enes< FN; 2e start o t, and this is the way Disney wor'ed at least d ring the time 2alt Disney was the head o$ the St dio, we always started o t with a basi& story o tline. !hat o tline s ally &ame $rom o r writer 6arry Clemmons. From that ro gh, bare bones o tline we wo ld ta'e the idea and $lesh it o t )is ally, sometimes adding bits o$ dialog e where needed. 7n&e that was done, 6arry wo ld &ome ba&' and loo' at what was there, and things ndo btedly had &hanged, things had gotten more in)ol)ed and more de)eloped, and then 6arry wo ld write more dialog e $or the &hara&ters, where he $elt it was appropriate.

5t%s 'ind o$ li'e the writer is wor'ing with the story artist:we are all basi&ally s&reenwriters, and we are basi&ally de)eloping the storyline, both )is ally and with dialog e. 5t%s gi)e and ta'e, ba&' and $orth. 2e &on$er with the writer and the writer &on$ers with s. 7n&e we ha)e that done, then we show that $inished board, &omplete with pi&t res and words, to o r dire&tor. 5n this &ase o r dire&tor was 2ol$gang Heitherman, o$ten 'nown as 2oolie, his ni&'name. 2e wo ld show that to 2oolie, and i$ 2oolie tho ght that the board was presentable, and he was happy with it, then he wo ld show it to 2alt Disney. =nd that be&ame pretty m &h the pro&ess, the way all story de)elopment on $ilms wor'ed at Disney. AV; 2hen the boards mo)ed to the story reel, were yo in)ol)ed in the re&ording o$ the )oi&es< FN; Sometimes we are, sometimes not. Ls ally that be&omes the *ob o$ the dire&tor. 5t%s the dire&tor who goes to the re&ording stage with the a&tor, to sit down with the a&tor to ma'e s re they get e)erything right, to ma'e s re e)ery in$le&tion and e)ery n an&e $its. 7n o&&asion tho gh the story artists wo ld attend a re&ording session, not so m &h that we%re there to ad)ise the a&tor, b t be&a se we * st want to see how the whole thing is &oming together. So $or instan&e when they were re&ording Sterling ?olloway, the )oi&e o$ Daa, 5 did attend those re&ording sessions, b t not to dire&tor the a&tor be&a se that%s the *ob o$ the $ilm%s dire&tor. 5 was * st there to see what was going on and to see how things were all &oming together. AV; 2hat memory do yo ha)e o$ that time< Sterling ?olloway was s &h a great artist. FN; 7h, my.my+ 2ell, my $irst awareness o$ Sterling ?olloway began when 5 was a &hild. !hat%s a long time ago+ "y mother too' me to seeDu"bo when 5 was a little 'id, 5 might ha)e been $i)e or si1 years old, b t that was my $irst awareness o$ Sterling ?olloway, playing the part o$ the Stor' in Du"bo. =s the years went on, 5 began to re&ognise his )oi&e in other Disney $ilms be&a se he was always doing the )oi&e o$ some &hara&ter, yo 'now, maybe a small part, maybe a bigger part. 5n the series o$ Disney $ilms 5 &an%t e)en remember all the )oi&es Sterling did. ?e be&ame a pretty reg lar $i1t re at the Disney St dio and it was not n s al to see him strolling the hallways o$ the animation b ilding. Sterling ?olloway also had a &areer in $ilms, 5 thin' in the early M0s he appeared in a n mber o$ mo)ies, and !0 shows in the @0s. ?e was ne)er a big star, b t he was 'ind o$ a s pporting &omedy player. 5 thin' he was probably best 'nown $or his distin&ti)e )oi&e, whi&h seemed to really $it animation and 5 thin' that%s why he was sed so o$ten at Disney. So 5 pretty m &h got sed to seeing Sterling ?olloway in the hallways at the Disney St dio. ?e was always there to re&orded something or other $or some $ilm or other. ?e was ama>ing:he * st seemed to $it &ertain &hara&ters. 2hen we were trying to $ind the )oi&e $or Winnie The Pooh, somebody s ggested Sterling ?olloway, and s re eno gh Sterling ?olloway%s )oi&e * st seemed to be a nat ral $it $or #ooh Bear. =nd yet he was also 9 he didn%t really alter his )oi&e at all+ 9 it was the same )oi&e that he sed $or Daa in $ungle Book, whi&h was pretty m &h the same 'ind o$ raspy sB ea'y )oi&e, b t only a little more mena&ing. AV; =nd the same again $or Sir ?iss, in %obin ood.

FN; =&t ally, Sir ?iss was done by a di$$erent a&tor:the British a&tor !erry.!homas. 5t%s 'ind o$ hard to 'eep tra&' o$ all these di$$erent )oi&es b t, yes, !erry.!homas did the )oi&e o$ Sir ?iss in %obin ood, another $ilm 5 wor'ed on as an animator. ?e and #eter Lstino) were the two )illains in that parti& lar $ilm, and !erry.!homas was the $oil $or #rin&e -ohn. AV; 2hen yo wor'ed on the storyboards, were yo aware o$ the &hara&ter designs< 2ere yo able to se those designs to represent the &hara&ters< FN; 7nly in a )ery light way. Deep in mind that as story artists o r main &on&ern, and this was 2alt Disney%s $o& s as well, was to de)elop the story and the &hara&ters, not to worry abo t the parti& lar look o$ the &hara&ters or the design o$ the &hara&ters. !hat *ob $ell to the &hara&ter designers and the animators in parti& lar. 7 r *ob was to &ertainly represent the &hara&ters on s&reen, b t there was no real e$$ort made to draw them e1a&tly the way "ilt Dahl, say, wo ld draw Shere Dahn, or e1a&tly the way Fran' !homas might animate a &hara&ter. !he &hara&ters are easily re&ognisable, i$ yo %)e seen any o$ the story s'et&hes, yo 'now pretty m &h what "owgli loo's li'e and what Bagheera the panther loo's li'e, b t we really made no real e$$ort to em late what the animators were doing downstairs. =s long as 2alt

Disney was able to re&ognise what &hara&ter we had on s&reen that was really all he needed, that was &lose eno gh. AV; 2hen yo &ame to the story department, did yo $eel yo r animation ba&'gro nd helped yo to bring mo)ement and energy to yo r storyboard ill strations< FN; 5%)e always $elt, and maybe it%s * st me and a $ew o$ my &olleag es, b t a hand$ l o$ s ha)e always $elt that i$ yo %re going to wor' in animation yo sho ld pretty m &h ha)e done e)ery *ob in the animation pro&ess. Eo sho ld be able to paint ba&'gro nds, yo sho ld be able to do layo ts, yo sho ld be able to do animation, and story, and in some &ases 9 and 5%)e done this 9 e)en be able to do )oi&e a&ting. 5 thin' &onsiderable 'nowledge o$ the animation pro&ess is a ne&essity, be&a se 5 thin' any one parti& lar s'ill in$orms the other s'ills. 5n other words 5 too' what 5%d learned in animation and applied that to story. 5 ta'e what 5 learned in story and apply that to animation, and into layo t and into ba&'gro nd and to e)erything else. 5 thin' to be a well.ro nded animation artist 5 a&t ally $eel one sho ld be able to do e)ery *ob i$ one had to. Now people tend to be parti& larly good in one spe&i$i& aspe&t o$ animation, there are some g ys that are * st nat ral animators. Some people ha)e a s'ill as a ba&'gro nd artist, they are * st gi$ted in the 'nowledge o$ &olor and &omposition. So we all &an ha)e o r spe&ialties and we all tend to end p in one ni&he or another as the *ob ne&essitates, b t 'nowing the *ob thoro ghly and being able to do e)ery *ob 5 thin' will ma'e yo a better animation artist. AV; D ring The $ungle Book, it%s well 'nown that 2alt Disney was also in)ol)ed in his /#C7! pro*e&t and the New Eor' 2orld%s Fair. From yo r perspe&ti)e, how in)ol)ed was he on the $ilm:did he s per)ise any story meetings< FN; Ees he did. 5%ll let yo 'now a little bit abo t 2alt Disney. 2alt Disney ran his St dio, he was in)ol)ed in e)erything, and 5 always ha)e to emphasise 5 do mean e&erything. Nothing that &ame o t o$ that St dio e)er &ame o t not ha)ing 2alt seeing it and appro)ing it. ?e was in)ol)ed in e)erything in)ol)ing the theme par', the tele)ision shows, the mo)ies, the boo's:whate)er it was his in)ol)ement was there be&a se 5 thin' 2alt Disney $elt that his name was on the prod &t. !hat prod &t represented hi", his philosophy, and so he was in)ol)ed in e)erything. 5n terms o$ $ilmma'ing, and animation spe&i$i&ally, his greatest &on&ern was story. !hat%s where he $o& sed his attention, be&a se with 2alt Disney the story was what was going to ma'e or brea' the $ilm. ?e didn%t worry so m &h abo t )isiting his animators be&a se he 'new they were the best in the world, he didn%t ha)e to s per)ise them. ?e didn%t ha)e to worry abo t his layo t artists be&a se he 'new they were also the best, and his ba&'gro nd artists were the best in the b siness. B t he did s per)ise story be&a se that was where he &o ld ha)e an impa&t, that was where he &o ld in$l en&e the $ilm. So the only department 2alt Disney tr ly paid attention to, when it &ame to animation, was the story department. =nd indeed he wo ld &ome to meetings, e)ery seB en&e in the $ilm wo ld be pit&hed to 2alt Disney. ?e wo ld be there in the room and yo wo ld ha)e to pit&h that seB en&e to him, and he wo ld then appro)e it or re*e&t it. Sometimes he wo ld ma'e s ggestions on how to impro)e it:sometimes he wo ld &ompletely de&ide to & t the entire thing, * st throw it o t. 5t was p to his dis&retion. ?e was the boss, he was the $inal word. 5t tr ly was 2alt Disney%s St dio in e)ery way. ?e was the man yo had to please. 5$ yo didn%t please him, then yo weren%t doing yo r *ob. AV; ?ow did yo $eel in his presen&e< FN; 5nitially, when 5 $irst &ame to the St dio in 19@6 and we were all yo ng 'ids * st o t o$ s&hool, he had already rea&hed 'ind o$ a legendary stat s and so we were all )ery m &h intimidated by 2alt Disney as yo &an imagine. =ltho gh 5 m st tell yo , li'e anything else, a$ter being aro nd a person $or a n mber o$ years that tends to wear o$$. So by the time 5 was doing my wor' on $ungle Book 5 had already been at the St dio $or nearly ten years, whi&h means 5 had been obser)ing 2alt Disney o)er that ten year period and had pretty m &h gotten sed to him. So 5 was no longer trembling and intimidated or a$raid o$ him the way 5 was when 5 $irst &ame. ?owe)er we still did ha)e an enormo s respe&t $or him:he was a man in his si1ties, 5 belie)e at the time we were wor'ing on $ungle Book he was aro nd 6@ years o$ age and o$ &o rse 5 was still in my twenties, 5 was still B ite yo ng. So we had enormo s respe&t $or him b t 5 &ertainly wasn%t a$raid o$ him, and &ertainly was open to any s ggestions or impro)ements that he had to ma'e. 5t was a good relationship and 5 ha)e to always tell people, Kdon%t get the impression that 5 was b ddy.b ddy with 2alt Disney%, be&a se 5 &ertainly wasn%t. 5 mean, 'eep in mind he was a man o$ nearly 6@ years o$ age, 5 was a 'id in my twentiesI the two o$ s had )ery little in &ommon, so we &ertainly didn%t hang o t together, we &ertainly didn%t ha)e &o$$ee together or anything li'e that. !hat was $or his peers. B t 5 was in meetings with 2alt Disney and had a &han&e to hear him spea' and ma'e his s ggestions $irst hand.

For a yo ng 'id &oming p in the b siness, that alone was a tremendo s opport nity, to be in the same room with 2alt and hear him ma'e his s ggestions, that was a rare opport nity. 5t was one 5 didn%t ta'e lightlyI 5 'new that i$ 5 was in a meeting with 2alt Disney, 5 was a l &'y person to be there be&a se not e)erybody was e)en able to attend a meeting with 2alt Disney. Some people wo ld * st hear abo t it a$terwards, or they wo ld get notes abo t what went on, b t to be in the room with the man himsel$: )ery $ew people got that 'ind o$ an opport nity and $or me 5 thin' that was * st l &'y. !o be a 'id and to be so yo ng, and yet to be in meetings with 2alt Disney at that time was &ertainly a spe&ial thing $or me. AV; =bsol tely+ =$ter dealing with story yo mo)ed ba&' to animation. ?ow did that happen< FN; 5t%s a $ nny thing. 5 ne)er had any parti& lar lo)e $or story. 5 &ertainly had a good deal o$ respe&t $or storytellingI 5 * st didn%t $eel it was my strongest ability in this whole pro&ess. 5 did what 5 did be&a se it was a *ob, they told me that this is what yo %re going to do, and then yo do the *ob yo %re gi)en. So 5 went ba&' to animation a$ter $ungle Book be&a se 5 still wanted to be an animator+ 5 was still )ery m &h in lo)e with animation. 5 wanted to animate, so 5 went ba&' and 5 did animation $or some years a$ter wor'ing on The $ungle Book, ha)ing en'oyed my time in story, b t tho ght 3now 5%ll get ba&' to doing what 5 really want to do4. =nd yet, somehow, o)er the years, $or some reason or other, 5 'ept getting p lled ba&' into story+ 5 remember 5 went to wor' on a mo)ie and 5 had signed on to wor' as an animator, and 5 was loo'ing $orward to that, and then the boss &alled me in and said 3well, we don%t ha)e any animation:it%s going to be &oming p soon, b t in the meantime wo ld yo help s o t doing storyboards<4 ?e said 35 'now yo 'now how to do it4, so 5 said 3s re, s re, 5%ll help o t4, yo 'now, 3s re, 5%ll do some storyboards4, and lo and behold 5 ne)er got ba&' to animation+ So more and more it seems that 5 had $o nd the pla&e $or mysel$ in animation, and that seemed to be the story department, be&a se it seemed 5 'ept ending p doing story+ 5 wo ld always end p going ba&' to story. 5 wo ld do some animation, 5 wo ld do some layo t, b t s re as anything 5 wo ld $ind mysel$ ba&' in the story department doing storyboards. =$ter a time 5 realised, well maybe this is what 5%m good at, so 5%ll * st 'eep on doing story. AV; Eo did get ba&' into animation $or %obin ood tho gh<

FN; Ees. 5 had le$t Disney $or a time in the 1980s, and they as'ed me to &ome ba&' to wor' on Bedknobs !nd Broo"sticks. !hat was a li)e.a&tion m si&al b t it did ha)e an animation seB en&e in the middle o$ the $ilm, the So&&er seB en&e, and 2ard Dimball was dire&ting that seB en&e. So 5 &ame ba&' to wor' on that and then 5 was going to lea)e again. !hen%obin ood was the ne1t $eat re $ilm and 5 ended p wor'ing on %obin ood, aro nd 1982.83 5 g ess. =nd then 5 le$t Disney again, be&a se at the time 5 * st wasn%t real happy with the way things were going. !he St dio was &hanging, and 5 $elt &hanging not in a way that wo ld bene$it me, so 5 tho ght it was time to mo)e on. Ne)er 'nowing that 5 wo ld be &alled ba&' yet again+ 5 ha)e a habit, thro gho t my &areer at Disney, o$ lea)ing Disney, and being &alled ba&', then lea)ing again and being &alled ba&'+ !his was a &ontin al thing in my &areer+ 5%m lea)ing the St dio and then again always ending p ba&' there. 5 g ess it was where 5 was meant to be, 5 s ppose. AV; Eo e)ent ally settled down again at Disney d ring the /isner era to wor' on The )otre Da"e< FN; 2ell, this is the way it happened:5 was wor'ing on&e again at other st dios on other pro*e&ts, and this was aro nd 19J3. !he St dio &alled me and they wanted to hire me ba&', and 5 said no, 5%)e got another &ommitment so 5 &an%t ta'e the *ob. =nd then they &alled me ba&' again in the s mmertime; 3wo ld yo ta'e the *ob at Disney<4 and 5 said no, 5%m still doing something else+ !hen they &alled me a third time aro nd the end o$ 19J3 and 5 said 3oh, o'ay, 5%ll try:5%ll &ome ba&' and ta'e this *ob4. =nd that was a *ob in the p bli&ations department, where they did the boo's, the &omi& boo's and the &omi& strips. So that was the *ob 5 too' in 19J3. !hat was 'ust prior to the arri)al o$ "i&hael /isner and Fran' 2ells, they &ame onboard in the spring o$ 19JM, and ran the &ompany. 5 &ontin ed to wor' in the p bli&ation department, e)ent ally doing the "i&'ey "o se &omi& strip $or Ding Feat res Syndi&ate, and 5 was there, s rprisingly eno gh, $or ten years+ 5 had only planned to be there a &o ple o$ years be&a se 5 * st wanted to ta'e a brea' $rom animation and do something di$$erent, b t 5 ended p staying on $or a ten year period, $rom 19J3 p ntil 1993, and it was in 1993 that 5 ret rned to animation to wor' on The unchback O( )otre Da"e. AV; 2hat was that li'e< unchback O(

FN; !hat was )ery e1&iting. 5 really en*oyed that $ilm. Deep in mind that animation had gone thro gh a lot o$ &hanges:the department had almost been totally reb ilt $rom top to bottom, be&a se all o$ the old. timers had either sin&e retired or passed on. =nd so here was a brand new animation &rew o$ yo ng people, and they were doing some )ery interesting wor'. =nd e)en tho gh 5 wasn%t wor'ing with them be&a se 5 was wor'ing in a di$$erent department 5 always made a point to stay in to &h, to 'now what they were doing, and to wor' with them in any way 5 &o ld. 5 did a lot o$ the adaptations o$ the $eat re $ilms into p blished material, so that meant ta'ing whate)er animated $eat re was in prod &tion and we wo ld do the boo's, &omi& boo's and &omi& strips all based on this new Disney $eat re. 5 ne)er had any intention o$ ret rning to animation, 5 tho ght that my $ t re was going to be as a writer in the p blishing department. B t lo and behold it got &hanged yet again and they in)ited me to &ome ba&' and wor' on The unchback O( )otre Da"e, whi&h 5 too' be&a se 5 tho ght it was the most n s al pro*e&t, and 5%m always e1&ited by pro*e&ts that are either n s al or ris'y, or &ra>y or whate)er. 5 tho ght that doing The unchback O( )otre Da"e in animated $orm wo ld be a real &hallenge. !he dire&tor was a $riend o$ mine 9 in a&t al $a&t the dire&tor was a 'id that we had hired some ten years earlier right o t o$ art s&hool+ So sin&e 5 already 'new him, and already 'new his talent and ability, 5 de&ided to ret rn to Feat re =nimation to wor' on The unchback O( )otre Da"e, whi&h 5 saw as my $inal $ilm. 5 was * st going to ret rn to animation to do this one mo)ie. !hat was my plan, 5 was going to do The unchback and then mo)e on. 2ell, on $inishing my wor' on The unchback O( )otre Da"e they as'ed me i$ 5 wo ld stay on and help them on another $ilm that they were doing &alled Mulan. !hey were ha)ing di$$i& lties with the story on this $ilm, this was in 199M. So 5 went o)er and began to wor' on Mulan, thin'ing that 5 wo ld lea)e a$ter 5 $inished wor' on that $ilm. B t while wor'ing on Mulan, Aeorge S&ribner, a dire&tor, was de)eloping another $ilm, a )ery n s al pro*e&t that wo ld &ombine CA animation with li)e.a&tion, something totally niB e, it hadn%t been done be$ore. ?e as'ed me to &ome o)er and wor' on his $ilm, whi&h was &alled Dinosaur. So 5 ended p wor'ing on Dinosaur $or 1M months and then 5 had a )isit $rom Halph A ggenheim o$ #i1ar =nimation St dios, and he said 3we%re short. handed, we%re a )ery yo ng st dio and we don%t ha)e eno gh animation story )eterans on o r &rew. 2o ld yo be willing to &ome p to #i1ar and help s on this new animated $eat re &alled Toy Story *<4 So that meant mo)ing p north, p to the Bay area. = lot people ha)e $amilies in the So thland, they had 'ids at s&hool and didn%t want to mo)e p north. 5 was in a position to go be&a se my 'ids had already grown p:5 didn%t ha)e anything to ne&essarily hold me down, so 5 said 3s re, 5%ll mo)e p north and help yo on yo r mo)ie4. =nd that%s how 5 ended p at #i1ar, wor'ing on Toy Story *. =$ter that, 5 got another &all $rom #i1ar and they said 3wo ld yo help s o t on Monsters+ Inc<4 Deep in mind that 5 was now li)ing p north in San Haphael, my wi$e was down here in #asadena, and so 5 said 35%ll ha)e to as' my wi$e. 5$ she says 5 &an wor' on yo r mo)ie then 5%ll do it, b t i$ she says no then it%s time to &ome home. 5%m going to ha)e to respe&t$ lly pass on yo r o$$er4. So my wi$e says 5 &o ld wor' on Monsters+ Inc, and so 5 did+ =nd that was my last #i1ar $ilm, and a$ter 5 $inished my wor' on Monsters 5 was able to ret rn home. !hat brings s p to the year 2000, when 5 ret rned to Disney, and 5 wor'ed one more year at the Disney St dio be$ore retiring $rom animation in that same year, aro nd the $all o$ 2000. !hat was pretty m &h the end o$ my &areer at Disney, at least my(ull ti"e &areer at Disney be&a se 5 $o nd mysel$, e)en a$ter 5 retired, going ba&' to the st dio to help o t on )ario s pro*e&ts, and 5 g ess 5 wor'ed on any n mber o$ pro*e&ts as a $reelan&er or &ons ltant. So 5 $ind mysel$ still &onne&ted to the Disney St dio one way or another, e)en tho gh 5%m retired. S re eno gh 5 $ind mysel$ in the st dio a &o ple o$ times a wee', e)en now, so 5 g ess 5%m 'ind o$ a $i1t re aro nd the pla&e+ AV; Eo r re&ent &redits in&l de The Tigger Mo&ie and o"e On The %ange. o"e On The %ange.

FN; Ees, oh yes 5 wor'ed on Tigger and in early de)elopment on

AV; !here was also a title that was ne)er released, &alled Wild ,i(e< FN; Wild ,i(e+ Ees, that is &orre&t. Wild ,i(e was a $ilm that was in de)elopment:5 started on the $ilm in -an ary o$ 2000. !he $ilm was a&t ally sh t down in the s mmer o$ 2000, and the $ilm was ne)er made, it was ne)er prod &ed, be&a se Hoy Disney, the nephew o$ 2alt Disney, tho ght that the $ilm was a little too 3sophisti&ated4, 5 g ess to be 'ind abo t it, that%s the best word to se, $or Disney%s $amily a dien&e. =nd Hoy Disney said that it was a $ilm that Disney sho ld not be ma'ing. So the $ilm was sh t down in the late s mmer o$ 2000. AV; 2hat was it abo t<

FN; Belie)e it or not, it was an animated $ilm abo t a night &l b+ = night &l b whi&h is not e1a&tly the 'ind o$ $ilm yo wo ld ta'e the &hildren to see. 5t was probably not the best o$ ideas. AV; 2hen yo &ame ba&' to Disney animation $or unchback, what 'ind o$ relationship did yo ha)e on that< Did yo bring the &lassi& Disney tradition to what the yo nger generation were doing< FN; Ees, 5 tried to, 5 tried to. 5 don%t want to $or&e my ideas on anybody, b t i$ the yo nger people ha)e B estions abo t the way things were done in years past 5%m always happy and willing to pass on whate)er 5 'now, whate)er 5%)e learned, be&a se 5 do thin' that this is an art $orm where the older members pass on what they%)e learned to the yo ng 'ids, and 5 'now that when 5 &ame to Disney as a 'id, still in my 20s, 5 learned so m &h $rom the animation )eterans who had been doing this st $$ $or some 20 or 30 or 30 years. Eo &an%t dis&o nt that e1perien&e and they helped me immensely. So 5 try in ret rn to pass on whate)er 5%)e learned to a new generation o$ animated storytellers, and that was primarily why 5 thin' Halph A ggenheim as'ed me to &ome p to #i1ar to wor', be&a se they were a yo ng st dio and they were yo ng 'ids * st o t o$ s&hool, * st the way 5 had been some 30 years earlier. So whate)er 5 &o ld gi)e to them, to help them be&ome more e$$e&ti)e storytellers, 5 was happy to pass on, be&a se as 5 said, the old g ys ta ght me and so when 5 be&ame an old g y 5 was &ertainly happy to tea&h the yo ng 'ids who were $inally ma'ing their way thro gh. 5t%s a &ontin al gi)ing, and hope$ lly one day these same 'ids, as they grow older and more mat re, they will pass on what they%)e learned to a yo nger generation. AV; 2hat wo ld be the most important thing that yo learned $rom the masters, or 2alt Disney, that yo parti& larly stri)e to pass on to the new generation< FN; 2ell 5 thin' what 5%)e learned $rom 2alt Disney, and 5 thin' what #i1ar also learned $rom 2alt Disney, is that when yo ma'e a mo)ie, yo %)e got to tell a story that%s going to engage the a dien&e. Eo want a story that they &an &onne&t with, that they &an relate to, that%s going to to &h them. !ho gh it may so nd &orny, 5 always say 3a good story is a story that ma'es me la gh, and it ma'es me &ry4. 5 o$ten $eel i$ 5 &an get those two ingredients in a story and do that e$$e&ti)ely then 5%)e done my *ob, be&a se that story, and the &hara&ters within that story, sho ld really to &h yo , 5 mean yo sho ld be able to relate to those &hara&ters, yo sho ld be able to relate to their sit ation. /)en tho gh it may not be yo rs e1a&tly, yo are going to &onne&t in some way with that &hara&ter, whether that &hara&ter be a man or a woman or a bear or a s' n'. !here%s an ama>ing &onne&tion with the &hara&ter that ma'es that &hara&ter seem to li)e, and $eel, and thin'. 2hen yo ma'e that &onne&tion and the a dien&e ma'es that &onne&tion with a mo)ie, yo %)e done yo r *ob, and that%s what 2alt Disney always wanted. 2alt Disney wanted a story that wo ld engage him:that wo ld p ll him in to the story. 5$ yo r story $ails to engage the a dien&e then yo ha)e $ailed as a storyteller. Eo %)e totally $ailed, be&a se yo ha)e to belie)e that &hara&ter is real, yo ha)e to 'now what that &hara&ter is $eeling and thin'ing, and that%s what ma'es yo &onne&t to a b n&h o$ &olored drawings on the s&reen. 5n other words, those images on the s&reen that are not real at all, $or that time be$ore )ery real, li)ing, breathing, thin'ing beings, and yo %)e managed to do all that with * st a b n&h o$ &olor$ l s'et&hes, or drawings, or CA models. Eo p t them p on the s&reen and yo %)e made them seem ali)e, and e)erything they $eel and do yo relate to. 5$ they get h rt, it h rts yo , i$ they ha)e great *oy then yo ha)e *oy. 5t%s * st what we as storytellers try to do. 2e ha)e to engage o r a dien&e and i$ we $ail to do that then we%)e $ailed to do o r *ob as writers. AV; =re yo bringing yo r e1pertise to any & rrent Disney pro*e&t< FN; 5%m not bringing any e1pertise to any Disney pro*e&t at the "o"ent, altho gh 5 remain open to whene)er they want to &all me+ 5%m &ertainly here, and they 'now where 5 am i$ they need me they%ll gi)e me a &all. =s a matter o$ $a&t they did &all me a &o ple o$ months ago 9 5 almost $orgot that 9 be&a se they were de)eloping something, and 5 was nable to wor' with them at the time be&a se 5 was already &ommitted to a tele)ision show that 5%m & rrently doing, and 5%)e got to wrap that p be$ore 5 mo)e on to anything else. 5%m * st too old to wor' on m ltiple pro*e&ts at the same time+ 2hen 5 was yo nger 5 &o ld balan&e two or three pro*e&ts, b t now 5%)e got to ta'e it one at a time. So 5%m presently wor'ing on a !0 show $or #BS that%ll be on the air ne1t year:that%s what 5%m doing at the moment. So no Disney pro*e&ts at the moment, b t that doesn%t mean that there might not be one in the $ t re+ AV; 2e hope so+ FN; Eeah, 5 hope so too. 5 li'e wor'ing with them+

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