Vous êtes sur la page 1sur 16

Let's Talk Bitcoin Episode 48: Cypherpunks and Globetrotting Participants: Adam B Le!

ine "ABL# $ %ost &tephanie 'urphy "SM# $ Co$host (ichard Boase "RB# $ author o) a recent article discussing the history o) the Cypherpunk mo!ement Loren *n)eld "LI# $ )rom 'Tra!el +angea'

ABL: %i, -elcome to episode 48 o) Let's Talk Bitcoin )or .ctober 8th/ 0123 4isit us at letstalkbitcoin com )or our daily guest blog/ all our past episodes/ and o) course/ tipping addresses 'y name is Adam B Le!ine/ and today 5e are learning )rom )olks 5ho are )airly ne5/ but )ocused and passionate Loren is )rom 'Tra!el +angea' "555 tra!elpangea com#/ a dedicated e6plorer and operator o) one o) the )irst tra!el agencies around to accept Bitcoin %e and &tephanie talk out about ho5 those 5ith the tra!el bug can bene)it )rom cryptocurrency/ his e6periences so )ar/ and also/ monkeys, But )irst/ Bitcoin is an outgro5th o) the cypherpunk mo!ement/ but 5hat e6actly does that mean7 (ichard Boase has been 5riting about 8ust that/ and be)ore 5e headed to Georgia/ * caught up 5ith him about the history o) the cypherpunk mo!ement/ 5hat cryptocurrency means to it/ and 5hat can be learned )rom that history -e'!e got lots o) con)erence inter!ie5s coming up/ and !ideo pass pre$orders are still a!ailable 5ith an e6pected release date o) late .ctober 9th/ 0123 :ue to your support/ 5e 5ere able to upgrade our co!erage to t5o angles and operators 5hich made )or a bit more editing time *) you'd like to be the )irst to e6perience .ct ;th's cryptocurrency con)erence 5ithout actually !isiting Georgia/ !isit bitcoin!ideopass com <or e!eryone else/ all con)erence talks 5ill be a!ailable )or )ree 4; days a)ter release Thanks )or supporting our e6periment/ 5e'll be o))ering more like it in the months to come =e5 though it may seem/ bitcoin is not the )irst pri!ate money 5ho's nati!e habitat is the *nternet <urthermore/ the patron saint o) Bitcoin is not the )irst to see the need (ather/ &atoshi stood on the shoulders o) those 5ho came be)ore/ connected the right dots/ and added his o5n inno!ation to create cryptocurrency as 5e kno5 it today But/ today is not our )ocus *'m 8oined by (ichard Bo5es "(B# an entrepreneur and marketer 5ho recently 5rote about the history 5hat came be)ore ABL: (ichard/ thanks )or 8oining me today on Lets Talk Bitcoin,>10:11? RB: %i/ Adam, =ice to be here Thanks )or ha!ing me >10:13? ABL: $&o/ tell me $ in a nutshell/ 5hat is the cypherpunk mo!ement7>10:1@?

RB: That's a good Auestion * think it's easiest to start at the beginning/ in 2990 5hen Tim 'ay/ and Eric %ughes/ and Bohn Gilmore started the CCypherpunksC mailing list A lot o) people 8oined o!er the ne6t kind o) )i!e/ si6 years And they 5ere really interested in bringing strong encryption into the public domain and taking it a5ay )rom agencies like the =&A/ out o) the hands o) go!ernment $&o that's 5hen it really gets going 5ith a kind o) label But no5 * think 5ith the rise o) Bitcoin/ it's becoming something else *t's becoming almost a )ashion statement/ *t's becoming this kind o) place 5here kids can identi)y 5ith and understand/ 5hich coders and hackers and business people o) all )la!ors can really come together That's my take on it/ any5ay * see it as a mo!ement/ 5ith &atoshi being the kind o) mythical )igure$head o) the 5hole thing But yeah/ it has !ery deep roots And clearly a lot o) e6tremely intelligent people ha!e put their 5eight into it in one 5ay or another >13:2@? ABL: &o $ 5hen 5e talk about a mailing list/ 5e're talking essentially about/ and you said this 5as the late 81's7>13:00? RB: Early 91's really: '90 is 5hen it got started >13:0D? ABL: &o 5e're talking about !ery/ !ery early email And this is essentially not so much a community as it 5as 8ust people ha!ing a group con!ersation and mailing ideas back and )orth on these topics/ right7>13:38? RB: (ight/ e6actly >13:41? ABL: &o/ let me ask ho5 did you get interested in this topic7 -as this coming to it )rom the bitcoin perspecti!e and trying to )igure out the history o) 5here 5e came )rom/ or 5ere you interested in it )rom a di))erent angle7>13:;1? RB: Let me say/ the )irst time * really heard o) bitcoin 5as Buly last year And *'d kind o) been thinking about digital money 'y )ather's a programmer and he had introduced me to the idea that the Euro should ha!e been a completely digital currency/ and * sort o) did some digging 5hen * 5as a teenager and )ound out the kind o) political implications o) ha!ing a digital currency that 5as not anonymous/ that 5as traceable And so/ 5hen * 5as introduced to Bitcoin the penny dropped And * think somebody introduced me Auite simply as cryptographic/ peer$to$peer/ anonymous currency or something like that $And it 8ust instantly took hold and * 5as like/ CThat's the ne6t big thing/ *'m gonna go do5n this route Absolutely C / straight to it And 8ust di!ed straight into the rabbit hole And The )irst thing that kind o) grabbed me 5as 5ho is &atoshi7 &o * kind o) googled around and tried to dig a little bit and )ound that he had registered the site $* think it 5as bitcoin org7 $ through Anonymousspeech 5hich 5as being run by a guy 5ho 5as in one o) the guest houses 5here * 5as li!ing in Tokyo at the time $&o * 5as kind o) like/ Eoh/ &atoshi's more or less on my doorstep F .r 5hen * 5as in Tokyo he 5as more or less on my doorstep * li!ed there )or a couple o) years in 0118 *t kind o) had this )eeling that he 5as right there/ that *'d been 5ithin spitting distance 5hen * didn't really kno5 anything about it And ob!iously/ those 5ere !ery early days/ 5hen nobody kne5 anything/ so that kind o) like/ * don't kno5/ something about that 8ust really spurred me on Then/ * had actually a lot o) help 5ith the research )rom a !ery good security consultant 5ho kind o) really/ really dug into it * emailed a )e5 o) the main guys/ particularly Adam Black 5ho 5as

e6tremely help)ul and open and )riendly and ga!e me some great leads to look at a bit deeper into 5ho the ma8or characters 5ere &o it sort o) came together organically >1;:;0? ABL: &o (ichard/ you mentioned strong cryptography as being sort o) a cornerstone o) 5hat the cypherpunks 5ere trying to do -hy is that something that 5as important to them at that point in time7 Because * don't really think there 5as the threat o) the =&A breaking all communications per!asi!ely $ * mean >1D:19? RB: -ell * think early on/ * mean in the @1's (i!est/ &hamir/ and Alderman they came out 5ith this algorithm 5hich 5as kno5n as (&A &te!en Le!y describes this 5hole story in much detail in his book Crypto And these guys and 'artin %ellman and :i))ie -hit)ield $ particularly :i))ie -hit)ield $ had this real/ almost paranoid mistrust o) speci)ically the =&A and speci)ically go!ernment agencies 5ho 5ere insisting that strong cryptography 5as not something )or the masses: that it 5as a threat to =ational security And particularly 5hen 'arty %ellman and -hit)ield :i))ie came up 5ith the key e6change/ the =&A 5as terri)ied and kind o) put a clamp on the 5hole thing Gey e6changes 5ere 8ust a ne5 thing in cryptography/ right7 +ublic$pri!ate key e6changes Be)ore that/ you only had symmetrical encryption 5here you both had to ha!e the same pass5ords to access an encrypted message -hereas 5ith the :i))ie$%ellman system/ you created your public key and your pri!ate key And you published your public key and then you could s5ap your public keys/ and you could send your encrypted messages to 5ho you had the public key o) And so/ the =&A kind o) )reaked out o!er this because it had been 5orked out in deepest darkest secret and * think in the bo5els o) GC%H in the D1's And the GC%H hadn't )igured out ho5 to use it/ and they ob!iously hadn't published it >1@:4D? ABL: * kno5 =&A/ but 5hat is GC%H7>1@:48? RB: GC%H is the British !ersion o) the =&A * think it stands )or General Central Communications %eadAuarters or something like that/ but it's the British !ersion o) the =&A >8 11? $&o yeah/ and there 5as this kind o) moment 5here the &tates certainly classed strong encryption algorithms as 5eapons &o you couldn't e6port the strong encryption algorithms in your so)t5are/ and nd * think Lotus had something called =otes that 5as the =&A basically clamped do5n on and said Eoh/ you can only ha!e 32$bit encryption on )oreign e6port !ersion o) notesF and things like that >18:0@? ABL: &o do you think that the cypherpunk mo!ement 5as a reaction to that or 5as it already in process 5hen this started becoming an issue7>18:34? RB: -hat's interesting is these guys really sa5 it coming They really sa5 the 5hole/ people like Assange / really early on thinking all o) these communications are gonna get sucked up as they pass )rom continent to continent by the go!ernments And nothing is gonna be pri!ate/ it's all 8ust public stu))/ so it's not e!en a Auestion o) i) they do it/ it's basically 5hen *t's like all o) this communication is public/ and there)ore/ strong cryptography should be in the public domain also +eople ha!e a right to pri!acy/ and they really sa5 that coming 21$01 years ahead >19:24?

ABL: &o/ seeing things coming early isn't al5ays that re5arding o) an e6perience/ and * kno5 that there ha!e been other attempts at things like cryptocurrencies that 5ere not e6actly cryptocurrencies be)ore this Those arose )rom the cypherpunk mo!ement as 5ell/ right7>19:0@? RB: * think 5hat maybe di))erentiates cypherpunk as a mo!ement )rom those other early e6periments or particularly systems/ like the Liberty (eser!e/ are the philosophy and the politics behind it $&o in my mind/ at least/ as * say cypherpunk is by nature/ its goal is to o!erturn the status AuoI by nature it's disrupti!e But also/ * think there is this kind o) strong philosophical/ perhaps e!en moral backbone to it/ 5hich * ha!e to say/ things like Liberty (eser!e/ *'m not so sure that they're backed up in the same 5ay $ or e!en :a!id Chaum/ 5ho 5as a brilliant cryptographer and the creator o) :igiCash/ he had this sort o) pri!atiJation pro)it moti!e going on behind :igiCash/ 5hich * think ultimately sank it $ and 5hat's key about Bitcoin/ and the ne5 technology/ is the )act that it's so shared *t's so open source that anybody can get in!ol!ed/ and that's 5hy 5e ha!e acolytes and e!angelists 5ho are 8ust craJy about itI / almost religious in there )er!or $$because it has this potential to 8ust open up the economic stage and allo5 people in And it's not e6clusi!e in the 5ay :igiCash 5as &o * kno5 that you're pretty much a belie!er too and most people listening to the sho5 5ill be as 5ell/ but * think that's the main di))erentiation bet5een Bitcoin and its public ledger and its open source nature and the pre!ious attempts >22:10? ABL: &o/ 5hat do you think/ )or people lacking in understanding o) 5here 5e'!e come )rom/ 5hat parts about the cypherpunk mo!ement or speci)ic indi!iduals 5ithin it/ you mentioned AssangeI * assume you mean Bulian Assange %e has an interesting Auote Ctransparency )or the po5er)ul and pri!acy )or the 5eakC and * think that that's a really interesting approach/ because 5e li!e in a 5orld that's )ull o) one$siJe$)its$all solutions And generally speaking/ it's kind o) 5hy 5e ha!e this problem that 5e do no5/ because i) there are small o) bad actors/ then e!eryone is treated as i) they might be a bad actor 5hich makes things in general harder )or e!erybody &o 5e don't ha!e some things that 5e 5ould e6cept )or this sort o) )ear -hat parts about the cypherpunk mo!ement or indi!iduals 5ithin it do you think is important )or people to understand 5ho aren't )amiliar 5ith this or ha!e ne!er heard o) it be)ore7>22:;2? RB: * suppose the main thing is this idea that i) you'!e got nothing to hide/ you'!e got nothing to lose * mean/ that is the oldest argument in the book right7 And i) you'!e e!er read Ga)ka/ it 8ust doesn't 5ork like that That i) you'!e got bad actors in go!ernment you can be as good as anybody and they'll still persecute you &o/ this idea that you'!e got nothing to hide you'!e got nothing to lose it is true up to a point/ but most people are suspicious o) Bitcoin because it protects your pri!acy/ or in some 5ays/ it protects your pri!acy rights / people 5ho don't kno5 about cypherpunk are Auite likely to kind o) say Eoh/ 5ell/ these guys are 8ust disrupti!e and / they 5ant anarchy and they 5ant terrorists to be able to communicate and da da da da da F but * think really that's not the case * think the case is 5e need to )ind alternati!es to this sur!eillance state/ to the kind o) control that these unkno5n )orces 5ield o!er us Like * mean/ 5e're creati!e people and * think 5e ha!e the right to be creati!e And so/ that's kind o) the main thing that needs to come out o) this: this idea that pri!acy is a pri!elage 5hen in )act really it's a right Kou

and * should be able to communicate really 5hate!er 5e like 5ithout being spied on That's the key message >23:2@? ABL: *n our society/ de)initely seems like there are people 5ho belie!e that/ but as you mentioned it's really more about the people in go!ernment and 5hat they belie!e .ne o) the not$so$nice terms that are used to sometimes describe the cypherpunks is cryptoanarchists/ and *'m 5ondering 5hat you think o) that term as it relates to this group >23:3@? RB: -ell * think it's kind o) )air/ but on the other hand *'m gonna hop back to this old thing o) the <ounding <athers being thought o) as terrorists at the time o) the establishment o) the Lnited &tates * think you'!e got this group o) people 5ho actually Auite a large group o) people/ 5ho are )ounding )athers o) the *nternet And the same goes )or the cypherpunks * mean they're as you say in your introduction/ &atoshi is standing on the shoulders o) giants * mean people 5ho really had )ar$reaching ideas and 5ho/ in some senses/ * think are anarchists >24:2;? ABL: Let's talk about that term/ Eanarchist/F because EanarchistsF is one o) those 5ords that in modern parlance has sort o) di))erent associations than * think that people 5ho proudly re)er/ there are some people 5ho proudly re)er to themsel!es as CcryptoanarchistsC don't really )eel like their interpretation o) that 5ord is that there's someone going around lobbing digital bombs as might be the assumption based on ho5 they're treated in the media sometimes -hat de)ines a cryptoanarchist in this conte6t7 >24:43? RB: * couldn't tell you 5hether the cypherpunks are cryptoanarchists/ 5hether they 5ant to lob digital bombs/ or anything like that As they say/ * guess each member has their o5n philosophy * also think that gentleness and compassion and mind)ulness is the 5ay )or5ard in creating a global culture -e are on the !erge o) ha!ing this incredibly po5er)ul technology And *'!e heard a lot o) adopters o) Bitcoin talk about it's not cool to be a billionaire anymore $ no5 it's cool to be a trillionaire kind o) thing/ and that may be so All 5e really need to do is kind o) )igure out 5ays that 5e can make a better 5orld/ because 5e'!e got this incredible mechanism )or energy e6change 5ith !ery/ !ery lo5 transaction )ees $ so 5e can send great amounts o) energy As 4italik Buterin says in his recent article in 'Bitcoin 'agaJine/' the main thing to do is )igure out 5ays o) distributing to us/ during distributed computing/ and not necessarily in the 5ay o) &ET* <oldingMhome/ but in the 5ay/ in Bitcoin's o5n particular 5ay/ it 5ill gi!e rise to ne5 social architectures and hope)ully ne5 medical ad!ances and things like that * think 5e really ha!e to think care)ully about ho5 5e 5ant to use this po5er / *t's the old &piderman thing o) E5ith great po5er comes great responsibility F -e need to embrace that That's my t5o cents/ any5ay And * 5ould actually ha!ing had some connection 5ith 5hat * 5ould term Creal cryptoanarchists/C and ha!ing seen the kind o) ra5 disregard )or la5 or ra5 desire to tear do5n the old institutions * kind o) *'m more moderate than that *'m happy to see banks disintermediated to a certain e6tent and credit card companies/ to take some o) the po5er a5ay )rom them and do5nsiJe them But like/ *'m not personally in )a!or o) 8ust tearing do5n the old society 5illy$nillyI 5ithout care * think 5e do need to really apply oursel!es to ho5 to recreate the economy and ho5 to get

people's standards o) li!ing up and look at/ * don't kno5/ de!eloping countries and see ho5 5e can apply Bitcoin there &o there's so much 5ork to be done/ actually * think cryptoanarchy is a little bit o) a distraction/ >2@:2D? ABL: .kay/ * can see that &o/ is it an inherent dislike o) rules7 .r is it a dislike o) the current system that you think leads people 5ho are thinking like you 5ere 8ust describing to not be interested in the current system7 *s it any system7 *s 8ust that there is a system that's the problem7 .r is it 8ust that they don't like the current system so they don't respect it7>2@:38? RB: * don't kno5 * think there's probably a di))erence bet5een punks and anarachists in the sense that punks are kind o) 8ust a bit naughty and anarchists are Auite serious about tearing do5n the system =o5/ there may be a spectrum/ right7 And sometimes they might a little bit too ro5dy/ too serious * 5ouldn't 5ant to 8udge either 5ay i) people ha!e really/ really been gi!en a hard time by the system and they need to take their anger out on the system and they 5ant to destroy it and they 5ant to use Bitcoin to do it/ 5ell / that's 8ust a )act o) li)e That's gonna be a reality/ right7 * think the problem 5ith the system at the moment really/ and * don't 5ant to be too general/ but there's a lot o) )riction in the global economic system/ right7 And there's a huge imbalance $&o/ 5e really need to )ocus on taking the )riction out o) the legacy system and using Bitcoin almost as a lubricant/ kind o) digital snake oil i) you like/ but 8ust a lubricant to get the economy going again And also to redistribute so that people can 5ork at home in a 5ay that makes sense )or them and so that you can outsource easily digital tasks to people the other side o) the 5orld or you can get paid )or your 5ork in an increasingly multinational/ multilingual en!ironment 5ithout too much hassle and 5ithout gi!ing too much money to the credit card companies or the banks >29:10? ABL: (ichard/ is there anything that * ha!en't asked about that you'd like to go o!er7 >29:1D? RB: A lot o) the technical stu)) in my article is )ascinating/ and it runs !ery deep/ and * kind )eel like *'!e only 8ust got the outline o) ho5 deep it really goes .ne o) the most interesting things )or me is: suppose this thing that &atoshi said be)ore he disappeared 5hich 5as Clet's not )ocus too much on the mysterious creator thing/C and * think that's right in a sense *'m also !ery interested in the idea that Bitcoin is kind o) intelligence all o) its o5n: a sort o) disembodied corporation i) you'd like * kno5 that doesn't actually make sense/ but a disembodied intelligence maybe *n terms o) the technical stu))/ that's really 5here it's at/ really looking at ho5 it can be applied Another thing * 5ould 8ust say is i) you're really interested in digital property rights read =ick &Jabo's stu)) because he is )antastic * mean he is 8ust so interesting and so deep and so academic And as * say/ he 5as sort o) in the habbit o) going through 5hat technology there 5as and kind o) conte6tualiJing it in historical terms And so * think he's a great introduction to the sub8ect/ and hope)ully also kind o) a bit o) a !isionary about 5here it should go or 5here the technology is going/ but also * mean there ha!e been so many great technical inno!ations/ real hardcore coders going into it/ 5here do you start7>01:3;? ABL: -ell/ the place to start in this case is letstalkbitcoin comNpunk i) you 5ant to be

directed to (ichard's article, (ichard/ thanks )or 8oining us to talk about the cypherpunk mo!ement -e look )or5ard to ha!ing you back on the sho5 soon >20:48? RB: Thanks !ery much/ Adam, Thanks )or ha!ing me >01:;2?

Advertisement: Easy:=& is the &5iss Army kni)e )or your domain names, %elping meet their customers indi!idual needs since 2998/ easy:=& has been an outspoken critic o) &.+A and C*&+A Easy:=& 5as an early supporter o) Bitcoin/ and no5 they are proud to sponsor this sho5 :o business 5ith a company that shares your !alues, Get a 23O discount 5hen you pay 5ith Bitcoin Go to bitcoin easydns com and be sure to use discount code: LTB Advertisement: *) * sho5ed you a 5ebsite 5here you could easily purchase electronics )rom the 5orld's largest distributor 5ith bitcoins at 1O markup/ 5ould you think it 5as too good to be true7 Good ne5s/ it's real $ and it's at bitcoinstore com, Choose )rom hal) a million items/ sa!e money o!er AmaJon and =e5egg/ and con!ert your bitcoins to real$ 5orld items, Kou can e!en buy 5ith pri!acy: all they need is a shipping address $ but don't take my 5ord )or it: see )or yoursel) at bitcoinstore com

SM: *'m here talking 5ith Loren *n)eld Loren is )rom 'Tra!el +angea' $ and Loren/ thank you )or being on Let's Talk Bitcoin today,>00:14? LI: &ure/ thanks )or ha!ing me,>00:1;? SM: Keah/ so 'Tra!el +angea' is a tra!el agency but it's a little bit di))erent than other tra!el agencies because you'll accept bitcoin/ is that right7>00:2;? LI: That is true/ yeah >00:2D? SM: &o/ * 5ant to kno5 about 5hat that's like/ but )irst o) all/ ho5 did you )ind out about Bitcoin and ho5 did you get to the point 5here 'Tra!el +angea' 5as 5orking 5ith Bitcoin7 >00:08? LI: -ell/ 5e run in )airly tech$sa!!y circles and so 5e had heard Bitcoin being tossed around since its inception 'y partner at the agency had talked to people right as Bitcoin 5as getting going $ and 5e had kind o) talked about it as a concept and then started hearing )rom more and more people that thought it'd be pretty interesting i) they could book tra!el using all this bitcoin that they had earned or sa!ed up &o 5e spent a 5hile researching and deciding and 5e chose to gi!e it a go,>00:;8? SM: Keah/ so are most o) your clients indi!iduals or are they companies that are doing corporate kinds o) tra!el7>03:1;? LI: -e don't do that much corporate -e do indi!iduals/ groups/ 5e do a bit o) e!erything +robably our Bitcoin clients are mostly indi!iduals and indi!idual people 5ithin groups that are booking and tra!eling >03:29?

SM: .k &o that's interesting &o/ there aren't too many companies yet that are doing a lot o) their e6penses in Bitcoin to the point 5here they're paying )or tra!el 5ith Bitcoin >03:08? LI: =ot yet/ although that 5ould be a really cool de!elopment: a nice 5ay to 5ork 5ith companies doing direct Bitcoin trans)ers >03:0@? SM: Keah/ * imagine -e'!e heard )rom a lot o) companies that they do ha!e some trouble/ because the so)t5are isn't really there yet )or doing serious kinds o) accounting 5ith Bitcoin/ so they do ha!e some issues 5ith that/ * think $ but 5hat is your typical client like7 :o you ha!e a stereotypical kind o) client7 *s it somebody 5ho 5orks )or themsel!es and 8ets around the 5orld7 A Bitcoin millionaire7 Tell me about that, >laughs? >04:10? LI: *t is al5ays )un 5orking 5ith >laughs? someone 5ho's got a ton o) money or bitcoin to go do 5hate!er they 5ant/ because you can book the best ad!entures But * think our clients are pretty 5ell !aried/ but like * said/ 5e ha!e been around the kind o) tech sa!!y/ young/ *nternet or technologically$sound people 5ho are doing modern 5ork and cutting$ edge stu)) and the sort o) people 5ho 5ere turned on to Bitcoin early on and 5ere able to take ad!antage o) it &o $ usually )airly young/ ad!enturous sort o) tra!elers doing all sorts o) interesting trips $ and 5e specialiJe in unusual/ odd/ or comple6 itineraries &o/ it's al5ays )un to 5ork 5ith these people that ha!e a bit o) coin and 5ant to use it to see the 5orld,>04:;0? SM: .kay/ so are people mostly doing this )or personal trips7 $.r is it business trips or maybe mi6ed7>04:;8? LI: 'ostly personal tra!el that 5e'!e done so )ar/ any5ay * could de)initely imagine people mo!ing o!er to business tra!el this 5ay/ though >0;:1D? SM: -hen you make the arrangements agent does >0;:20? )irst o) all/ tell me a little bit about 5hat a tra!el

LI: >laughs? -ell/ *t's kind o) )unny 'cause * ha!e that con!ersation a lot 5ith people saying '5ell/ can't 5e 8ust book online7C *t's true that not as many people need to come to you )or a Auick easy )light to some5here/ but 5hat a tra!el agent does is really go abo!e and beyond that/ and help you )igure out and shape a !acation to create the per)ect e6perience &o/ 5hen you're saying Chmm/ *'d kinda like to go to Asia,C rather than 8ust go online and see 5hat you can )ind and book it/ you can talk to me *'!e been to Asia many/ many times and booked hundreds o) people $ and kno5 the ins and outs and * can sit 5ith you and )igure out or talk 5ith you online like 5e're doing no5/ and )igure out e6actly 5hat it is that you're interested in :o you 5ant to see temples/ or do you 5anna see monkeys/ or do you 5anna see the best night clubs in Thailand or something7>0D:1;? SM: * 5anna see monkeys/ Loren, >laughs?>0D:1@? LI: Kou'!e come to the right place, * actually am in)amous )or my lo!e o) monkeys/ and my best party trick is that * can say monkey in o!er ;1 languages/ but * ha!e been attacked by monkeys in a )e5 countries and en8oyed it thoroughly/ actually,>0D:02?

SM: >laughs? .kay so/ you're more like a consultant )or tra!el >0D:0;? LI: Keah/ so essentially not 8ust get you on a plane )orm A to B/ but help you )igure out 5hat you 5ant to do/ 5hat 5orks )or you/ and kind o) get you inspired instead o) 8ust Eget on a plane and go take some pictures o) some )amous buildings or somethingF $ to really get into 5hat you 5ould en8oy most &ay/ go out to the monkey )orests in Bali then/ )or e6ample $or my )a!orite is the Batu ca!es in 'alaysia 5here you climb up a bunch o) steps 5hile you 5atch monkeys running up and do5n them in @ seconds 5hile it takes you hal) an hour to climb up all these steps, But $ to )ind the e6perience that 5ill make your trip the best trip )or you >0@:1;? SM: (ight/ okay/ that makes sense/ and *'!e heard be)ore that being a tra!el agent can be a really re5arding career/ it's pretty )le6ible/ you can kind o) do it )rom any5here %o5 did you get into the business7>0@:01? LI: *t is really re5arding *t's also appeared on some lists o) the most stress)ul 8obs * al5ays e6plain that i) you're a grocery bagger and you accidentally drop someone's milk/ it's not too big a deal $ but i) you're a tra!el agent and you get someone on the 5rong )light or someone misses that )light/ you get the panicked phone calls and people crying and trying to )igure out 5hat to do C* missed my )light/ *'m stranded/ help,C &o it can be stress)ul/ but it's also really re5arding/ especially to do the complicated trips 5here it's someone's pipe dream They came to you and said/ C*'!e al5ays dreamed o) seeing Europe/ but * 8ust don't kno5 ho5 to do it C $and by the time you )inish/ they're going out and seeing e!erything they'!e al5ays dreamed o) And that )eels pretty cool and * got into it e6actly )or that reason * lo!e tra!el/ *'!e tra!eled all my li)e $and * realiJed people 5ere asking me )or ad!ice 5hen they took trips &o * started out 5orking at a uni!ersity at a tra!el agency/ 8ust because 5hen * 5as at uni!ersity * studied abroad and it absolutely changed ho5 * looked at the 5orld/ ho5 * looked at mysel)/ and my place in it *t really pro)oundly a))ected me/ and * really 5anted to help young people do thatI to )eel the same 5ay and to gro5 in that 5ay *t's kind o) Ematuring$accelerated F To learn so much about yoursel) 5hen all o) your surroundings are taken out and your put into a totally )oreign situation And so/ that's ho5 * got into it and did it )or years doing that and mo!ed on and started my o5n to become more )le6ible/ 8ust like you 5ere saying Technically/ * could be any5here in the 5orld and still help you 5ith your tra!el/ 5hich is pretty cool,>08:;8? SM: Keah/ absolutely, And since this is your business/ you can decide 'okay/ 5e 5ould like to take Bitcoin ' $and so/ ho5 did 5hen did you start taking Bitcoin7 <irst o) all/ * 5ant to hear 5hen >09:20? LI: <airly recently *t's been 5ithin the past )e5 months *t 5as a long debate )or a )e5 months be)ore that >09:02? SM: -ho 5ere you debating 5ith7>09:03? LI: -ell/ it 5as me and my partner 5ho handles the business side * get to do the )un stu)) and send people around the 5orld and *'!e got someone to handle the business paper5ork stu)) that is not nearly as )un as sending people on ad!entures The t5o o) us

make the main decisions/ and 5e 5ere 8ust really trying to learn as much as 5e could about Bitcoin and not di!e in blind $ and 5e had a lot o) concerns about the !olatility and things like that $ and ob!iously a ne5 currency 5ith such a )airly unregulated concept seemed pretty scary And so/ it took us a 5hile to decide to take the leap and then actually start initiating and take some payments and learn ho5 it all 5orked <ortunately/ 5e had a lot o) !ery )riendly tra!elers that 5ere able to go easy on us )or our )irst Bitcoin e6periences >31:23? SM: (ight/ so about 5hat 5as the time )rame )or that7>31:2D? LI: +robably about three months ago or so is 5hen 5e did the )irst payment >31:01? SM: .h/ okay/ so )airly recently >31:00? LI: Keah -e're ne5bies to it still and so 5e're not super$pros/ but it's been really a good e6perience so )ar >31:31? SM: &o/ in the last three months about ho5 many clients ha!e you had 5ho 5anted to use Bitcoin to do their tra!el arrangements7>31:3D? LI: *t's not the ma8ority o) our business/ yet -e're actually 8ust starting to market to the idea o) looking )or clients $ speci)ically bitcoin clients &o 5e'!e had probably a hal) doJen or so/ not a huge amount/ but 5e de)initely see the potential *'!e had many con!ersations 5ith people 5ho 5hen they )ound out 5e're accepting Bitcoin they got e6cited and started thinking about )uture plans >32:11? SM: * mean in three months/ i) you ha!e hal) a doJen clients/ that's one e!ery couple 5eeks/ so that's not too bad >32:1D? LI: Keah/ and 5e hope to e6pand out and it's kind o) a uniAue 5ay And the de!elopment o) Bitcoin and the people 5ho got in early on managed to kind o) get a decent stash/ )or some o) them at least/ o) some coin *t seems like its a neat idea to take this digital !irtual currency and spend it on something that's more 5hat people dream on rather than say/ paying your rent or doing something more practical 5ith it $ to take it and ha!e some )un 5ith this currency,>32:41?

Announcement: Kou're listening to Let's Talk Bitcoin/ the premier audiocast pro!iding ne5s and insights that co!er the rapidly e!ol!ing 5orld o) digital money .ur t5ice 5eekly sho5 includes analysis o) late$breaking ne5s/ updates on key technical business and regulatory issues/ and in$depth inter!ie5s 5ith key people dri!ing the ne5 digital economy Let's Talk Bitcoin, o))ers sponsors an attracti!e 5ay to reach a targeted and sa!!y audience <or more in)ormation/ email sponsorsMletstalkbitcoin com SM: .) course/ e!eryone's )ree to spend their money and their bitcoins ho5e!er they think is best/ but * think tra!el could be totally practical $ * mean/ i) it changes your li)e >30:29? LI: >laughs? That's not to say that tra!el is impractical/ but * used to 8oke that back in the

day * 5ould spend my rent money on plane tickets so o)ten ,>30:0@? SM: -ell you 5ouldn't ha!e to pay your rent i) you 5eren't li!ing there )or that month/ right7 >laughs?>30:30? LI: Keah, -ell *'!e sat outside o) many airports staring be)ore my )light home thinking Cno5 5hat 5ould happen i) * 8ust didn't *) * 8ust kept tra!eling7C * )ound that the practical stu)) * al5ays )ind some 5ay to pay )or/ so * made sure to buy my plane tickets/ to book my dreams/ so that * couldn't talk mysel) out o) it $and *'!e ne!er regretted a single trip that *'!e done *'!e been all o!er the 5orld/ and *'!e helped tons o) people do it and *'d be hard pressed to come up 5ith e6amples o) people going/ C5ell/ * 5oulda much rather had that P2/111 back then ha!e gone and had this e6perience C *t 8ust doesn't happen *t's a really enriching thing to do >33:22? SM: * 5ould'!e rather paid my ta6es 5ith that P2/111, =o/ 5ait a minute >laughs?>33:2D? LI: =ot that people shouldn't be )inancially responsible/ but i) there's any5ay to sAueeJe out a little bit o) money to go play/ * think tra!eling is 5ay better thing to in!est in than )ancy clothes or ne5 rims )or your car or something like that >33:33? SM: (ight/ yeah &o/ *'m curious about ho5 the business side 5orks )or you at your business :o you accept bitcoin )rom your clients and then 5hat do you do $ hold on to the bitcoin and then make the arrangements in dollars7 :o you immediately change the bitcoin into dollars/ and then use that )or the business e6penses7 :o you do some kind o) split bet5een those t5o7>33:;8? LI: Being kind o) ne5 and 8ust getting going/ there's de)initely not too many !endors/ hotels/ airlines/ anything around the 5orld that's accepting bitcoin &o/ 5e generally ha!e to/ at some point/ con!ert it into dollars in order to pay o)) the !endors )or the bookings 5e do &o )ar/ 5e'!e been accepting in bitcoin and con!erting it )airly Auickly into dollars and mo!ing it into accounts to pay o)) !endors Although/ 5e ha!e talked about in the )uture as 5e gro5 the business and especially i) 5e are ending up doing more and more Bitcoin transactions/ then creating kind o) a bu))er 5here 5e can sit on bitcoin )or a 5hile and 5atch the market and see ho5 it goes $and possibly e!en increase our earnings that 5ay 5hich 5ould be 8ust an e6tra bonus perk on top o) the business >34:;1? SM: (ight/ yeah And do you ad!ise people about $$ *'m picturing i) someone's going on a trip to Berlin/ lets say/ and they kno5 that there's bars and restaurants/ and maybe e!en places to stay that accept bitcoin in the neighborhood 5here they're going/ potentially that could sa!e them a lot on )oreign credit card )ees/ and tra!elerQs checks/ and all that crap that people usually ha!e to do 5hen they go to another country $ ha!e you had anybody 5ho's asked you about that7 %as Bitcoin been able to sol!e some o) those problems7>3;:03? LI: =ot yet/ but that's actually 5here * do see a ma8or potential Because 8ust as a merchant/ as someone selling tra!el to you/ then there're )ees associated 5ith that -e're al5ays looking at 5ays to be putting the money to5ards trips/ and not to5ards paying o)) 4isa or 'astercard or somebody their cut o) the charge &o/ the )act that

Bitcoin does ha!e opportunities to do it at !ery lo5 percentage o) )ees and it's an easy 5ay to mo!e money around 5ithout losing a lot o) it to )ees/ * think that there's really good potential there and * 5ould like to look into places/ especially hotels and other tra!el related acti!ities that do deal in Bitcoin/ and * 5ould lo!e to partner$up 5ith people and kind o) ha!e an alliance: maybe start building the reputation and acceptance/ in the tra!el industry/ o) Bitcoin >3D:03? SM: (ight The thing that * immediately think o) is 'Airbnb'/ and you're probably )amiliar 5ith 'Airbnb'/ but 8ust )or our listeners 5ho may not be/ it's a ser!ice that allo5s people to hook up it allo5s people 5ho maybe 5ant to rent out a house or a place to stay on a short$term basis/ or maybe they're still li!ing there and they 5ant to rent out a room or something $ it hooks them up 5ith people 5ho 5ant to rent that place to stay &o/ it really e6pands the possibilities people can )ind places to stay that may be signi)icantly cheaper than local hotels and stu)) like that $and 'Airbnb' as * understand/ it 5as actually )ounded by Brian Armstrong 5ho is no5 at 'Coinbase ' * think that there could be a real partnership potentially bet5een 'Airbnb' and accepting bitcoin The potential is there )or people to basically buy a hotel or a place to stay 5ith bitcoin any5here in the 5orld >3@:03? LI: Keah/ * think that it's an emerging technology 8ust like a )e5 years ago the concept o) booking all your tra!el through the *nternet or e!en using the *nternet as you tra!el 5as a craJy idea =o5/ you couldn't imagine not doing it * keep ; di))erent apps on my phone that as * tra!el $ 5hene!er * get -i<i $ update local currencies/ and check in itineraries/ and look at the plans There's al5ays the cur!e o) 5aiting )or humans to 5ise up to the emerging technologies/ basically * 5ish * 5as a big enough company to be the company that leads that charge/ but * think that a lot o) little places indi!idual hotels/ small agencies like me/ 5ill be mo!ing that 5ay and accepting bitcoin and then it 5ill gain momentum $ and then somebody big like 'Airbnb'/ or someoneI a large hotel chain/ or a tour company/ or an airline 5ill decide to hop on the not$as$cutting$edge$as$it$5as$a$)e5$ years$ago$but$still$pretty$hot technology/ and then it 5ill mo!e out and it 5ill become this radical ne5 thing )or the mainstream that hope)ully those o) us in the kno5 ha!e been using )or a 5hile and the rest o) the 5orld is disco!ering that there's this other 5ay that you can pay )or things uni!ersally and not deal 5ith 5ith/ like you 5ere saying $ )oreign transaction )ees can be real surprise killers )or people 5hen they get back )rom their trip and check their credit card statements >38:;0? SM: Actually/ let's talk about that )or a minute Let's do a hypothetical scenario here and say * li!e in =e5 %ampshire/ and * 5ant to go to China and see the monkeys/ let's say $ and *'m gonna go )or t5o 5eeks/ and *'m going to use my credit card to pay )or as much as * can/ but maybe *'ll get some o) the local currency and change some money 5hile *'m there %o5 much do you think * could e6pect maybe to spend in transaction )ees7 -hat percentage o) my total cost )rom the trip might be in those )oreign transaction )ees/ and changing money/ and all that kind o) stu))I the costs basically that Bitcoin could eliminate7>39:3D? LI: Essentially/ there're di))erent 5ays to access your money and spend your money and it's actually something that * point out to my tra!elers )airly )reAuently/ is to make sure

you talk to your bank and try to minimiJe the amount that you pay because some banks charge )or AT' 5ithdra5als/ some charge )or using it as a credit card/ some charge )or both &ome charge )lat rates/ some charge percentages/ and then o) course/ i) you 8ust bring a 5ad o) cash )irst o) all/ * ne!er ad!ise that because 5alking around 5ith a 5ad o) cash does not make you )eel !ery com)ortable, But on top o) that you're gonna pay transaction )ees or commissions and then i) not that/ then they gi!e you a 5orse e6change rate so you're not getting :ollar$to$Kuan/ in your e6ample There's usually most cards charge around 3O e6tra )or )ees/ some credit cards as high as 21O *'!e had emergencies 5here *'!e lost a card and had to use a credit card and got home to a 21O )ee on e!ery charge * made/ so it can really add up &ay you go stay )or t5o 5eeks in a P211 a night hotel and then try to put it all on a card at the end and get caught 5ith that 21O )ee That's P241 )or that e6ample Keah/ as you go through and you're doing day tours/ and your !isiting attractions and eating and buying sou!enirs/ 5e spend our money e!ery5here as 5e tra!el/ as 5e do in daily li)e Abroad you can see a lot o) )ees add up/ and * think that i) 5e are at a point 5here you could use Bitcoin more o)ten/ you 5ould de)initely be sha!ing those )ees 5ay do5n >42:28? SM: :o you help people 5ith !isa issues too7 Are you doing that7>42:03? LI: Generally it's a bad idea to make promises as a !isa e6pert/ as a tra!el agent * do help ad!ise/ but * al5ays ad!ise double$checking 5ith the go!ernment Tra!el state go! is the best place to )ind out *'!e had a lot o) e6perience 5ith !isas all o!er the 5orld/ so * can usually ans5er general Auestions/ but * do al5ays ad!ise people to double$check/ 8ust to make sure Those la5s change *'!e been in situations 5here the month be)ore * 5as going to a country they did not reAuire a !isa in ad!ance/ and at the point that * 5as going they did reAuire it/ and * had to scramble and get mysel) a !isa last minute/ and it 5asn't )un * can help/ but * can't guarantee/ so * al5ays re)er people to the authorities on that as 5ell >40:22? SM: *'m trying to picture i) there's any 5ay that Bitcoin could help 5ith that/ but *'m kind o) at a loss>40:28? LI: That 5ould be challenging/ because that 5ould be going directly through the go!ernments o) the 5orld >40:04? SM: They're going to be the last to embrace inno!ation >40:0@? LI: The renegade on that $ 5e're saying C5e don't need the go!ernment to regulate our currencies/ 5e'll 8ust do it oursel!es,C so it might be hard to go back to the go!ernment and say C=o5 that 5e'!e done it oursel!es/ ho5 about you guys 5ork 5ith us on that C Keah might be a little challenge to that/ but !isa costs are usually a pretty small percentage o) your total tra!el costs >40:4@? SM: Gotcha unless your talking about 4isa the credit card company >40:02?

LI: Keah/ the credit card company/ that could be a pretty large portion o) it >40:;D? SM: .kay/ Loren/ is there anything else you 5ant to add7 * mean/ this has been really interesting )or me/ but maybe one last Auestion -hen do you see maybe airlines or

hotels coming online 5ith Bitcoin7 -hat 5ould you predict might be the time )rame )or that7>43:23? LI: *'d put hotels be)ore airlines Airlines are not the Auickest to adopt trends and they're also behemoth things that ha!e their o5n set o) magical logic to them >43:0;? SM: The 5ord dinosaur came to mind )or me >laughs?>43:08? LI: Keah/ really *'!e had to e6plain to people that you can't really predict sometimes: a good e6ample is *'m in &acramento right no5/ and a )light )rom &acramento to say/ =e5 Kork !ia Atlanta might be P411 But/ i) * 8ust 5anted to )ly that to Atlanta it might be P911 They ha!e their o5n sort o) logic and reasoning and they do a lot o) algorithms and calculations to try )ind out 5hat's the best But they are kind o) a dinosaur$y thing Lntil 5e )igure out a 5ay to )lap our o5n arms and get oursel!es there/ though/ they're 5hat 5e'!e got * think that 5hat 5ill happen is some o) the lo5$cost carriers/ some o) the ne5 inno!ators/ people like maybe in Europe say/ easy8et or (yanair/ those sort o) people that are doing !ery lo5$cost )lights/ they're the ones that are eeking their 5ay into an established business and pushing the limits * 5ould lo!e to see AirAsia/ personally/ in Asia they're one o) the best/ probably the best lo5$cost airline in the 5orld Those are the people they basically they make their money by )inding 5ays to lo5er their e6penses They're the ones that introduced "(yanair is in)amous )or their nickel and diming policies# but they're the ones that introduced things like kiosks instead o) agents at airports because then you pay less people and cut do5n your costs $ 5ebsites instead o) call centers &o doing Bitcoin transactions rather than paying 4isa or 'astercard those )ees is another logical 5ay 5here they can trim do5n They land at alternate airports that charge lo5er ta6es They're the ones that are looking )or 5ays to keep the costs do5n because their bread and butter is undercutting the ma8or airlines/ so * think they're going to be the ones that 5ill e!entually adopt * 5ould think it's probably not in the ne6t year or t5o/ but hope)ully soon therea)ter *n the hotel 5orld/ * think that it 5ill be indi!idual hotels popping up e!ery5here accepting and then some o) the smaller chains )ollo5ing suit/ and then the big guys 5aking up and saying/ C.h/ hey/ look/ there's all this C &ay there's about 2011 hotels in London/ not all o) them are chains/ and 5hen the big chains look around and realiJe that there's ;11 hotels in to5n that are no5 accepting Bitcoin/ then they'll realiJe that maybe they need to get on board to stay competiti!e as 5ell >4;:;0? SM: Keah/ that's so interesting *t sounds like there's really an opportunity )or some inno!ation in these industries that are not/ especially the airline industry/ traditionally associated 5ith being !ery inno!ati!eI at least in the last )e5 decades >4D:1D? LI: * think that its e!ol!ed: ;1 years ago/ companies could do 5ell by 8ust plodding along and being really good at 5hat they do and 5orking hard =o5/ inno!ation is the key to e!erything E!ery company that's doing really 5ell no5 is because they came up 5ith a really uniAue idea/ or a really uniAue design Like * said/ until 5e can )lap our 5ings and )ly oursel!es/ then 5e're going to need the airlines/ but * think that 5e 5ould be dra5n as people and as tra!elers to the ones that are inno!ating $ and * think that Bitcoin is a really solid inno!ation )or them to lean to5ards >4D:44?

SM: Keah/ okay/ and one last Auestion *) you had a client that 5anted to take a Bitcoin !acation/ and not 8ust to pay )or it in bitcoin/ but they 5anted to go and see the places in the 5orld 5here there are Bitcoin$intentional communities/ and they can buy things 5ith bitcoinI 5here 5ould you recommend that they go7>4@:13? LI: That is a )antastic Auestion that * 5ish * had a really good ans5er )or * honestly don't kno5/ that 5ould be something * 5ould do a lot o) research )or * bet you might be able to ans5er that better than me 5ith your better kno5ledge o) the Bitcoin culture *t's something *'d be interested in )inding out * did see about the people $ 5as it they 5ere trying to do a honeymoon/ or 8ust a !acation/ using only Bitcoin7>4@:09? SM: There 5as a couple 5ho 5anted to li!e the )irst 3 months o) their marriage on only Bitcoin/ but they 5ere in their hometo5n in Ltah or something like that >4@:39? LI: * thought * read about somebody 5ho 5as trying to do a !acation that 5ay/ too >4@:43? SM: There could be and * 8ust don't kno5 about it >laughs?>4@:4D? LI: Keah/ * think as our Bitcoin sales pick up/ and as 5e get the 5ord out about it/ * de)initely 5ill be researching that and looking )or opportunities $ and like * said *'d lo!e to partner 5ith R as a small business oursel)/ * al5ays try to gi!e business to small local companies operating all o!er the 5orld as long as *'!e pro!en their reliability &o/ i) * can )ind indi!idual hotels/ or tour companies/ or other tra!el related companies that are accepting bitcoin/ * 5ould de)initely look to gi!e them business and spread the Bitcoin lo!e $and get more people tra!eling Bitcoin$style and thinking about the possibility o) doing that >48:08? SM: Cool, Alright/ Loren &o/ 5here can people )ind you online/ and i) they 5ant to/ use your ser!ices to book a Bitcoin !acation/ 5here can they go to do that7>48:3@? LI: -ell/ 5e're on most social media -e ha!e tra!elpangea com *t's p$a$n$g$e$a/ not g$a$ e$a -e didn't do the o))icial spelling / 5e 5ent )or something a little easier )or people to spell * guess -e're on <acebook/ and T5itter/ and all that as 5ell *n)oMtra!elpangea com is the email that 5ill get you the )astest response/ and * guess those are the main 5ays to )ind us -e'll be e6panding out our 5ebsite to ha!e Bitcoin payments 5here you can go and pay directly on the site !ia Bitcoin >49:28? SM: &o/ right no5 i) they 5ant to use Bitcoin to pay )or it they ha!e to make arrangements 5ith you kind o) by email $ is that ho5 it 5orks7>49:0;? LI: -hat 5e'!e been doing is talking 5ith indi!idual clients and once 5e ha!e a plan/because there hasn't really been a need/ so )ar/ o) say a )lat rate or a )lat product to purchase since 5e're not like say a clothing store 5here you can buy this tee$shirt )or 01 bucks and you can submit a P01 Bitcoin -e 5ill ha!e been in communication/ 5e'll ha!e been talking/ 5e'll ha!e planned your trip and )igured out your plans/ and then 5hen it comes time to actually purchase e!erything $and 5e'!e got your itinerary/ it's all set/ here's 5hat 5e're going to do/ 5e're staying this place/ take this )light/ do this tour Then 5e kno5 the total and then 5e 8ust ha!e been in!oicing Bitcoin in!oices 5here then

people can pay !ia Bitcoin once 5e ha!e the e6act amount nailed do5n As 5e do more trips and 5hen 5e do groups and things like that/ 5here say 31$41 people are doing the same trip/ then it's a set price and then 5e can ha!e you can go directly to the site and make a payment/ purchase this product at this price The tra!el business $ it's rare to ha!e this product at this price since 5e're planning a 5hole !acation >;1:09? SM: (ight/ that makes sense >;1:31? LI: Keah *t's something actually that 5e'!e thought about is the 5ays to put it online so that 5e don't ha!e to in!oice e!ery indi!idual person/ but to make it )le6ible enough that people can go in and make a Bitcoin payment/ but also make it )or the right amount -e don't 5ant people sending us bitcoin that isn't the correct amount )or their !acation/ or paying too little or too much and ha!ing to do partial re)unding and things *t's something 5e'!e been considering: the best 5ay to make it as con!enient as possible )or the clients 5ithout creating possible problems and areas )or things to go 5rong >;2:1@? SM: Gotcha Alright/ Loren *n)eld )rom 'Tra!el +angea/' thank you so much )or talking 5ith me today * really appreciate your time/ this 5as a great inter!ie5,>;2:2@? LI: =o problem/ thank you, *'m glad * could chat 5ith you,>;2:29?

ABL: Thanks )or listening to episode 48 o) let's talk Bitcoin, Content )or today's sho5 5as pro!ided by &tephanie 'urphy/ Loren *n)eld/ and (ichard Boase 'usic 5as pro!ided by Bared (ubens *) you can't get enough original thought and discussion/ read our daily blog at letstalkbitcoin com &ign up )or our 5eekly ne5s letter at the5eeklybitcoin com To get in touch/ send me mail at AdamMletstalkbitcoin com/ or !isit letstalkbitcoin comNtalk to be directed to our listener's subreddit &ee you ne6t time,

Vous aimerez peut-être aussi