6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

238 240
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 That is three days he had down 2 fucking card up.
3 that I was not at work. 3 THE CHAIRMAN: The next time you
4 There was eight days we go to golf 4 use that language you are done
5 outings that are for benefits for other 5 testifying.
6 locals, for cancer, on and on. That is 6 MR. KENNEDY: I understand. I
7 another eight days. That is other days 7 won't do it again.
8 he said I wasn't at work. 8 I told them I would rip their
9 I guess he thought that was a 9 cards up.
10 mandatory day since his paperwork is so 10 You can ask anybody in here that I
11 perfect that it has it was a Saturday. 11 haven't said it to, that I will
12 I knocked 21 days off of his 36 12 personally rip their cards up if I
13 days down in 20 minutes. 13 caught them playing games.
14 No phone records were ever 14 They can reach me Saturdays,
15 available to me, ever. 15 Sundays, holidays, in a restaurant,
16 I had 48 hours to make a decision 16 sitting down at a McDonald's. I was
17 or possibly have other criminal things 17 never, never not to be found.
18 brought against me and that is why I 18 That is all I have to say.
19 resigned. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Fred, hold it.
20 They were going to come after my 20 You had indicated earlier that you
21 union book, prosecute me for maybe, 21 were waiting for some paperwork.
22 whatever you call it, theft of services, 22 Did you have something you wanted
23 whatever that bogus bull crap is. 23 to enter in?
24 That is baloney. I was at that 24 MR. KENNEDY: That thing from
25 the office everyday at 5:30 and if I 25 Mr. Garcia that he wanted Callahan out
239 241
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 left at 12:00, you add that up. That is 2 of here. Callahan is on a witch hunt.
3 6- 1/2 hours in that office or out in the 3 THE CHAIRMAN: It is my
4 field hitting jobs. 4 understanding that you were not fired,
5 I am in the middle of a really 5 that you resigned your position after
6 nasty, I am ashamed to say it, divorce 6 confronted with the evidence that was
7 with my wife. Yes, I had problems at 7 brought forward through the
8 home. Yes, I have gone home early. 8 investigation by Mr. Callahan.
9 Did I ever neglect my local? 9 Is that correct?
10 Never. 10 MR. KENNEDY: That is correct,
11 Did I ever neglect a man in this 11 Mr. Draper.
12 goddamn room? Never. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: So you weren't
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 13 terminated; you actually resigned your
14 MR. KENNEDY: I never neglected my 14 position?
15 position or jeopardized the membership 15 MR. KENNEDY: No way in this world
16 or anything, integrity of any kind of 16 I could afford to fight this district
17 this local or anything to do with this 17 councillegally or monetarily, never in
18 district council to embarrass anybody. 18 my entire life.
19 I have always been an upstanding 19 I cannot afford to lose my union
20 guy and I live by my integrity. 20 card.
21 My son is in this room. I raised 21 THE CHAIRMAN: What you are saying
22 him to be the same way. 22 is that all of the allegations that were
23 Everybody in this room knows 23 brought forward about you were just not
24 exactly how I feel about taking cash. 24 correct but you were intimidated; is
25 Don't play with me, I will rip your 25 that what you are saying?
61
VERITEXT/NEW YORK REPORTING COMPANY
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
242 244
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 MR. KENNEDY: What I am saying is 2 position as saying you were in some
3 that the bear fact of it are if I am 3 way --
4 going to have my union card held over my 4 MR. KENNEDY: As a man under my
5 head then I am going -- if I am going to 5 own integrity.
6 have some kind of proceedings brought 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Were you in some
7 against me as a member, I have two years 7 way intimidated?
8 to retire. I need to go back to work. 8 You want to represent a fact that
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Further, my 9 you were intimidated?
10 understanding is that you entered in, 10 MR. KENNEDY: I didn't say that.
11 either through councilor by yourself, 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Or pressured?
12 to a termination agreement which had a 12 MR. KENNEDY: I am saying no way
13 confidentiality clause; is that correct. 13 financially or legally or do I have the
14 MR. KENNEDY: That is correct. 14 smarts to fight --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: By you testifying 15 THE CHAIRMAN: My question to you
16 here today are you saying that as far as 16 again is: Are you comfortable with
17 you are concerned that the 17 releasing your position?
18 confidentiality in that resignation is 18 MR. KENNEDY: No, I am not.
19 no longer in effect? 19 THE CHAIRMAN: You want the
20 MR. KENNEDY: Not at alL. 20 confidentiality clause to stay in
21 I thought I was invited by Mr. 21 effect?
22 McCarron, that I should come here. 22 MR. KENNEDY: I mentioned I better
23 THE CHAIRMAN: You can come here 23 say that or I will probably be sued,
24 and you can testify but my question is, 24 right.
25 I mean, I have not seen or had -- been 25 THE CHAIRMAN: I am just asking
243 245
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 privileged as this committee hasn't to 2 you because we don't have it.
3 your voluntary resignation which 3 MR. KENNEDY: I am asking you
4 contained a confidentiality clause that 4 could I be sued?
5 you insisted upon. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: I am not going to
6 MR. KENNEDY: I insisted upon a 6 sue you. I asked you a question.
7 confidentiality clause? 7 Do you want to come here --
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Both parties. 8 MR. KENNEDY: I am coming here for
9 MR. KENNEDY: I signed it under 9 one reason, because of my honor. I am
10 duress. 10 an honorable person. That is all.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: My question is: Is 11 THE CHAIRMAN: See, what we are
12 it your desire based on your testimony 12 doing is we are dealing with what you
13 that you want to make that termination 13 claim as to be a representation of the
14 clause or that separation clause of 14 days that were presented that you
15 which you resigned part of this record. 15 missed.
16 MR. KENNEDY: I am not an attorney 16 You are here to represent to this
17 so I don't think I understand what you 17 committee that there was justification
18 are asking me. 18 for leaving 109 days early out of 166,
19 THE CHAIRMAN: You signed a 19 there was 36 days unaccounted for of
20 confidentiality clause as did the 20 which you represent you can account for.
21 regional council or the district 21 That is the stuff that I have in
22 counciL. 22 effect.
23 MR. KENNEDY: Yes, they did. 23 When that evidence was brought
24 THE CHAIRMAN: My question to you 24 forward to you you were given an
25 is: You are here defending your 25 opportunity to resign.
62
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
246 248
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 I don't know what is in that 2 All I can say is that since I
3 agreement of resignation but you signed 3 jOined this local union all of the
4 it. 4 business agents or the leadership of the
5 It contained a confidentiality 5 local has been very helpful to me, all
6 agreement of which you don't want 6 this time.
7 breached today? 7 I made my living and I can say
8 MR. KENNEDY: Right. 8 that is the only local I worked all my
9 THE CHAIRMAN: That is your 9 life and they have been very supportive,
10 business, your prerogative. 10 very helpful all the time.
11 I am just saying that I don't know 11 Every time I call they always
12 what is in that. 12 reach you on a cell phone or call me
13 It could have something that would 13 back.
14 be more relevant to this or your defense 14 So I can say that I hope this
15 or maybe not to your defense and you are 15 local will continue here in Manhattan,
16 saying that you don't want to release 16 in New York especially in the east side,
17 that agreement to there so what you are 17 sir.
18 saying is that you have signed it, you 18 That is all I wanted to say.
19 will honor it and that is the way it is. 19 Thank you very much.
20 MR. KENNEDY: I guess that is the 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much
21 way I have to do it, sir. 21 for your testimony.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your 22 Lou Cacioppo.
23 testimony. 23 LOUIS CACIOPPO, called as a witness,
24 MR. KENNEDY: Thank you. 24 having been duly sworn, testified as
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Miguel, are you 25 follows:
247 249
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 here? 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
3 MIGUEL CUENCA, called as a witness, haVing 3 Are you a member of lS7?
4 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 4 MR. CACIOPPO: Yes, I am.
5 MR. CUENCA: Mr. Chairman -- 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Were you an offcer
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you a -- you 6 of the local union?
7 are a member of lS7? 7 MR. CACIOPPO: No, I am not.
8 MR. CUENCA: Yes, sir. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and
9 Absolutely. 9 proceed with your testimony.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: You don't hold any 10 MR. CACIOPPO: I have been in the
11 offices here? 11 local for seven years.
12 MR. CUENCA: No, sir. 12 It has always been a brotherhood
13 THE CHAIRMAN: This is a hearing. 13 taking care of each other.
14 You can refrain from the applause. You 14 Any time, like you said, you call
15 can talk to anybody outside but we are 15 the hall, they are there.
16 here to get information. 16 You call them on your days off,
17 It is important we get everyhing 17 they were there.
18 down so let's keep it that way. 18 And you are talking about Freddie
19 Go ahead. 19 being in Puerto Rico. I aCCidentally
20 MR. CUENCA: All I wanted to say 20 called him because I was having a
21 is that I believe I have been in this 21 problem on the job. He was in Puerto
22 country for 30 years. I have been 22 Rico. He said, call Danny. Danny took
23 working as a carpenter for 24 years, all 23 care of it.
24 of that with local 257 originally and 24 He might have been off on vacation
25 then later on 157. 25 but he took care of business no matter
63
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
250 252
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 what day of the week. 2 you answer the phone outside your local
3 You are talking brotherhood and 3 and take care of business you are still
4 all of this. 4 taking care of business no matter where
5 I am getting a bad taste in my 5 you are.
6 mouth just before the holidays they got 6 He doesn't have to be in the
7 to pull this. 7 offce.
8 Take care of it later on. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Brother, so you
9 We lost our Christmas part; is 9 understand something, the responsibility
10 that fair? You know, to make them 10 of an agent is what is designed in his
11 resign immediately like that is baloney. 11 work duties.
12 Let them defend themselves for a 12 The area of responsibility of
13 while. 13 where he is supposed to be is in his
14 As long as I have been in the 14 work duties.
15 union Mr. Forde has been in court and he 15 So you are not going to sit here
16 is still getting paid. Okay? 16 and try to convince this committee that
17 What is that? Why is that fair? 17 an agent's responsibility is wherever he
18 Is that fair? Does it sound right? 18 wants to be in the United States or
19 Let these men defend themselves. 19 Puerto Rico or the Bahamas and as long
20 You don't say all right, you got to sign 20 as he has a cell phone it is okay even
21 the paper now. 21 though he has an area of responsibility,
22 That is not right. Let them 22 even though he was supposed to make out
23 defend themselves. 23 a weekly report and did not or make out
24 Come up with all this stuff. I 24 a weekly report and falsified it, all of
25 have been here in seven years. He has 25 those things are acceptable to you but
251 253
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 been in court seven years; still going, 2 they may not be acceptable to other
3 still gets a paycheck. 3 people.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Brother, have you 4 So you understand, there is more
5 seen the confidentiality agreement that 5 than one issue here that we are dealing
6 they signed? 6 with.
7 MR. CACIOPPO: No, I have not. 7 Whether he is available by phone,
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Then you are 8 that is Well and good, but is he
9 representing something that you know 9 available by phone in an area in which
10 nothing about. 10 he is supposed to be servicing his
11 You do not have a clue what is in 11 membership.
12 that agreement. 12 That is a responsibility he has to
13 MR. CACIOPPO: You are absolutely 13 the organization. So I want you to
14 right, but give them time to come up 14 understand that.
15 with it; not you got to sign this in 48 15 That because you determined --
16 hours. 16 because you determine as long as he is
17 I understand what you are saying, 17 available by phone he could be anywhere
18 but what is fair is fair. All right? 18 does not necessarily constitute the fact
19 But any time you need these people 19 that he is doing his job where and when
20 you could call them and you are saying 20 he is supposed to do it.
21 after hours, okay. 1:00 he is not 21 MR. CACIOPPO: I understand
22 there. Where was he? 22 exactly what you are saying but the job
23 Maybe he was off somewhere else 23 was done.
24 taking care of business. 24 There was no recourse because he
25 If you are not in your local and 25 wasn't at that point. You understand?
64
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
254 256
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 Do you understand what I am saying? 2 the apprenticeship, leave the union and
3 There is no recourse saying this 3 do something else, but I decided to give
4 couldn't be taken care of because he 4 it one more shot and I put my name on
5 wasn't in his jurisdiction. It was 5 the out-of-work list and waited and
6 taken care of. 6 waited and shaping jobs didn't seem to
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have 7 help.
8 anything else to testify to? 8 The longer I waited, the worse I
9 MR. CACIOPPO: No, I do not. 9 felt, so I went into the local and asked
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very 10 the BAs to help me get a job.
11 much. 11 That very afternoon I was called
12 James Corrigan. 12 and I was back working the next day.
13 Have you already testified? 13 It made a huge difference that
14 MR. CORRIGAN: Yes, I have. 14 they were willing to do that for me.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: If we have time I 15 I am still here and I am still in
16 already told one of our brothers that I 16 the union so I think that their effort
17 want to get to those folks who haven't 17 really helped me a lot.
18 had a chance to testify. 18 That is all I have to say.
19 If there is time left at the end 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for
20 we will get back to you. 20 coming down.
21 MR. CORRIGAN: I would just like 21 Ken, either B-R-A-U, Brauman.
22 to add to my testimony to help clarify 22 Ken, are you here? Brauman or
23 the theory that there is a railroading 23 Rauman. Are you here, Ken?
24 going on. 24 Are you Ken? Let's have some
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. Sit 25 order.
255 257
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 down. I want to be fair to everybody. 2 MR. BLUHM: I don't wish to
3 MR. CORRIGAN: I understand. 3 testify at this time.
4 That is why I went out in the hall 4 I may later.
5 and put my name back on the list again. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Patrick Glynn,
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I am sorry. 6 G-L-Y-N-N.
7 I didn't recognize the name. 7 Do you want to come forward
8 Emily Huffman. 8 please?
9 EMILY HUFFMAN, called as a witness, having 9 PATRICK GLYNN, called as a witness, haVing
10 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 10 been duly sworn, testified as follows:
11 MS. HUFFMAN: I just graduated 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
12 my -- 12 Are you a member of the local?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Emily, one moment. 13 MR. GLYNN: Yes, I am.
14 Are you a member of lS7? 14 THE CHAIRMAN: An offcer?
15 MS. HUFFMAN: Yes, I am. 15 MR. GLYNN: No. I am not.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Can we have a
17 or were you an officer of the local? 17 little order?
ia MS. HUFFMAN: No. ia MR. GLYNN: I have been a member
19 THE CHAIRMAN: I need you to put 19 for 13 years.
20 the mic real close. 20 I have worked and had a lot of
21 MS. HUFFMAN: I just finished my 21 shop stewards come up to me and rave
22 apprenticeship requirements so I am a 22 about going down to the business agents
23 brand new mechanic, but three years ago 23 at 157 and how easy it is to go down and
24 I thought I wanted to get out of this 24 get their paperwork done and have it
25 field entirely and I was going to drop 25 done quickly, effciently without
65
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
258 260
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 problem and with respect towards them 2 I am proud to say that members of
3 treated as a human being, not as a piece 3 Local 157 had confidence in me and voted
4 of cattle. 4 me to be the delegate to the district
5 They have heard complaints -- any 5 counciL.
6 time they have a complaint they will 6 I have also served as the editor
7 acknowledge it and help men and union 7 of the local union's newsletter for the
8 members anyway they can. 8 past six years.
9 I have heard nothing but rave 9 I have an obligation to the
10 reviews of all these men that are down 10 members of my local to represent this
11 there as offcers. 11 side of the story at this the time in
12 Also I heard you talk about 12 crisis.
13 Freddie earlier being in Puerto Rico. 13 I will provide you with a brief
14 I am a neighbor of his, live 14 overview of Local 157, past, present and
15 fairly close to him. 15 future.
16 On Saturdays, Sundays I have been 16 This local has a long history
17 at his house 5:00, 6:00 in the afternoon 17 reaching back to the days of our
18 getting calls from union members and he 18 founding father PJ. McGuire.
19 will go out of his way to help them out, 19 Our history in this local is
20 answer any questions they may have. 20 intertined with the immigrant
21 I think that is above and beyond 21 experience in America.
22 the call of duty. 22 Our local jurisdiction was the
23 He is down there at 6:00 in the 23 home of millions of immigrants who came
24 morning willing and ready to go and 24 here through Ellis Island.
25 trying to make the place as efficient as 25 History tells us that PJ. McGuire
259 261
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 possible. 2 did much of his early organizing in the
3 I think that should stand for 3 jurisdiction of 157.
4 something. 4 Our local and United Brotherhood
5 That is all I have to say. 5 have been a beacon of economic and
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your 6 social justice for nearly 100 years.
7 testimony. 7 This local has been a ticket to
8 Mitch Sonntag. 8 the middle class and sent generations of
9 MITCH SONNTAG, called as a witness, having 9 New Yorkers on the path to the American
10 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 10 dream.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Mitch, are you a 11 Our modest headquarters on East
12 member of lS7? 12 25th Street was originally built as a
13 MR. SONNTAG: Yes, sir, I am. 13 stable for horses.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Former offcer or 14 The building was purchased by the
15 officer? 15 local and was renovated and has served
16 MR. SONNTAG: I was elected 16 as the headquarters for the east side
17 delegate in 2005. 17 union carpenters for well over SO years.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your 18 Local 157 has always been a
19 testimony. 19 reflection of the people of New York
20 MR. SONNTAG: My name is Mitchell 20 City.
21 Sonntag. 21 We are perhaps the most
22 I am in my 25th year of service to 22 ethnically, culturally diverse -- one of
23 the United Brotherhood. 23 the most culturally and ethnically
24 My father is now in his 50th year 24 diverse memberships in the brotherhood.
25 of membership in this organization. 25 Our members have been involved in
66
VERIEXT/NEW YORK REPORTING COMPANY
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
262 264
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 building our world-famous skyline for 2 I am sure you heard that again and
3 decades. Many of the men here are 3 again today.
4 second and third generation carpenters. 4 Our former business reps have
5 As large as we are we are kind of 5 always had a good working relationship
6 a small locaL. 6 with us and the contractors.
7 We are proud of our heritage and 7 Don't take my word for it. Ask
8 history at Local 157 which brings us to 8 anyone here or the testimony in the
9 the present. 9 record. Anyone can call the local from
10 To the best of my knowledge Local 10 5:30 on and get a business rep to assist
11 157 is the 6th largest local in the 11 them with whatever they need.
12 brotherhood and we are also the second 12 Everybody knows Brother Hanley and
13 largest local in New York City. 13 Kennedy were in the offce at 6:00 a.m.
14 The majority of the members here 14 and that you have heard again and again.
15 are very happy being in Local 157. 15 Today is a dark day for the
16 Our membership remains steady at 16 members of Local 157. The unfortunate
17 4500 members. 17 allegations of the Independent
18 We have a solid record of member 18 Investigator Bill Callahan has caused
19 retention and if we allowed every member 19 uncertainty, dissension and has eroded
20 that wanted to transfer in we could add 20 the confidence of our union leaders on
21 about 1,000 members in the local easy. 21 all levels. That is unfortunate.
22 Why, may you ask. 22 Local 157 has been characterized
23 Believe it or not this local has a 23 as a mismanaged mess in a state of
24 very good reputation. It is the truth. 24 disarray. Those are prett strong
25 Local 157 members get more for 25 words.
263 265
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 their dues dollars than any other local 2 The majority of the members of
3 to my knowledge. 3 this local are good, hard working and
4 Our dues are among the lowest in 4 honest family people.
5 New York City. 5 The broadbrush that has smeared
6 We have a scholarship fund for the 6 this local is resented by most and has
7 deserving children of our members. We 7 prejudiced some of the misinformed.
8 pioneered a sick donation fund. We 8 That includes people out in the
9 provide a legal assistance benefit. We 9 general public because they have read
10 have a supplemental accident insurance 10 articles, the mainstream press. It
11 benefit. 11 makes us all look bad.
12 Local 157 is involved in community 12 Seek the truth from the people
13 outreach. We contribute funds to 13 here. Common sense goes along way.
14 faith-based civic and youth-oriented 14 I have confidence in this
15 organizations. 15 examining board that we can get a fair
16 Our members have formed clubs and 16 shake.
17 each of them has had a positive impact 17 Local 157 is strong. We are
18 not only for our members but for 18 united in this time of crisis.
19 different sectors of the community and 19 We have a lot of people here and
20 they are really taking off, they are 20 we hope that the supervisors will sort
21 doing well. 21 out this mess and do right by the
22 Our former business reps are known 22 working man that is the back bone of
23 for their fairness, tough negotiation 23 this organization.
24 and were very popular with the members 24 To break up this local is a
25 of all the locals in New York. 25 mistake. Local 157 has great potential
67
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
266 268
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 for the future. 2 the international suddenly found a ray
3 New generations of leaders are 3 of light that has found corruption in
4 waiting in the wings and they want to 4 this council, and by taking our local
5 march in the future. 5 apart that this is not going to be the
6 Our clubs are dynamic and growing. 6 end of the problem?
7 Our future apprentices are energetic and 7 Isn't this really a last ditch
8 eager to make their mark in the city. 8 attempt to keeping the feds out from
9 The members are all telling me 9 taking everyhing over?
10 they want to return the subgovernance as 10 If you really wanted to fight
11 soon as possible. 11 corruption --
12 The members want to put 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on.
13 supervision behind us and hold elections 13 MR. VECCHIONE: If you wanted to
14 as soon as possible. 14 fight corruption in this union couldn't
15 The members want Local 157 back to 15 you have stopped at Mike Forde's desk?
16 regroup and come back stronger than 16 This man -- go ahead say what you
17 ever. 17 want to say.
18 This local must be allowed to 18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
19 reunite and meet the challenges that the 19 We are here to investigate
20 unionized building trades face in New 20 allegations that have been brought
21 York. 21 forward in a previous session to this
22 And we do have problems. This is 22 hearing about officers and former
23 our backyard. We know what it takes to 23 business agents of this local union.
24 do the job and get it done. 24 MR. VECCHIONE: Correct.
25 We are proud individuals but we 25 THE CHAIRMAN: And about whether
267 269
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 are also team players working together 2 or not the emergency supervision should
3 towards a common goal. 3 be contained.
4 These are things that a union 4 I can't see anything in the
5 carpenter is. 5 general president's letter and people
6 Please give us our local back and 6 keep reading it in about busting up this
7 don't break up the locaL. 7 local union and busting up that local
8 Thank you. 8 union.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much 9 It talks about trying to get this
10 for your testimony. 10 local union functioning in the proper
11 Jay V-E either E-C-C-H-I-O-N-E. 11 and prudent manner --
12 JAY VECCHIONE, called as a witness, having 12 MR. VECCHIONE: What I am asking
13 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 13 you --
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Jay, are you a 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on, Brother.
15 member of Local 157. 15 As per the Constitution.
16 MR. VECCHIONE: I am. 16 If you have something to talk
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an offcer 17 about relative to that then I want to
18 or past offcer? 18 hear --
19 MR. VECCHIONE: Shop steward in 19 MR. VECCHIONE: Is this all you
20 the locaL. 20 have found as far as corruption whenever
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. Proceed. 21 you wrote a report to the international,
22 MR. VECCHIONE: You will have to 22 is this the only thing you have found,
23 forgive me. I don't have a prepared 23 that 157 has been run shabby?
24 speech. I am just a carpenter. 24 This is an isolated incident in
25 Do you expect us to believe that 25 the entire district council of the City
68
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
270 272
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 of New York? 2 and file members.
3 That is what you expect us to 3 THE CHAIRMAN: That is correct.
4 believe, Brother? 4 MR. PICKENS: With the exception
5 THE CHAIRMAN: I am in here and 5 of this gentleman here it seems like you
6 appointed to look into the affairs of 6 have already passed judgment when
7 157. 7 someone makes a point.
8 That is the extent -- 8 I particularly noted the points
9 MR. VECCHIONE: You answered my 9 the gentleman made earlier regarding
10 question. 10 what constitutes a day and it seems like
11 Thank you very much. 11 you talked over him.
12 Shame on this council and shame on 12 THE CHAIRMAN: What constitutes a
13 the international for playing along. 13 what?
14 THE CHAIRMAN: I want to tell 14 MR. PICKENS: A full day.
15 everybody something so that we have an 15 He represented fact regarding
16 understanding. 16 that they was in the offce at 5:30 in
17 If we have continued outbursts, I 17 the morning and you constantly keep
18 am here to take testimony and this 18 saying there were 120 some odd days
19 committee is here to take testimony. 19 where they left early, just ignoring the
20 I can do it with you in the room 20 fact the point that the brother was
21 or I can do it with you out of the room 21 trying to make earlier.
22 and call the witnesses in one at a time. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: If you would have
23 So if you want to continue to stay 23 listened to everyhing I said, and the
24 in the room then you show some respect 24 record will bear it out --
25 with regard to this committee and the 25 MR. PICKENS: I did.
271 273
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 witnesses that are testifying. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: I said one of the
3 If you choose not to, you keep 3 things we are going to ascertain from
4 that up and we will do it one witness at 4 the investigator is at what time did
5 a time and everybody can line up outside 5 they begin their workday to determine
6 the door and give their testimony and we 6 what time they could quit their workday.
7 will not have a roomful of people. 7 MR. PICKENS: If that is the
8 That is the way it is. 8 case --
9 ANDREW PICKENS,called as a witness, having 9 THE CHAIRMAN: There are two
10 been duly affirmed, testified as 10 things, two issues that stand here.
11 follows: 11 One is leave early and the other
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Sit down, Brother. 12 is unaccounted for.
13 Go ahead, Brother Andrew. 13 MR. PICKENS: This report was
14 Are you a member of the local? 14 compiled by your Callahan and some other
15 MR. PICKENS: Yes, I am. 15 representatives.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Were you an offcer 16 THE CHAIRMAN: It is not my
17 or past offcer of the local? 17 Callahan. It is the investigator from
18 MR. PICKENS: No, just rank and 18 the independent investigators.
19 file. 19 MR. PICKENS: I understand. As
20 I initially wasn't going to speak. 20 you are reading that, if you find that
21 I wanted to get a feel for this hearing 21 their compilation of a day is unfair,
22 but I couldn't help, I was compelled 22 does that shed light on the whole report
23 because I have heard you say that you 23 being unfair as well that needs further
24 just arrived this morning to hear facts 24 investigation?
25 regarding the situation from the rank 25 THE CHAIRMAN: We will take into
69
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
274 276
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 advisement all of the information that 2 strong words when I read it in the
3 has been brought forward in testimony, 3 letter because anything that is a
4 both from this membership and from the 4 mismanaged mess you certainly will get
5 investigators and regional council and 5 evidence of that through rank and file
6 vice president of the eastern district 6 members being that they are unaccessible
7 as well as representatives of this 7 where they are needed on the job.
8 district council, not regional counciL. 8 That is contrary to the situation.
9 It will all be taken under 9 They are always available, always
10 advisement. The hearing has been going 10 ready, always at our defense in cause of
11 on since early this morning. 11 the membership rights.
12 MR. PICKENS: It seems that 12 Whoever penned that "mismanaged
13 whatever is being said here when it is a 13 mess" was more likely trying to make a
14 pOint being made you kind of over-talk 14 shock value or make it seem more
15 them and you kind of state the fact 15 important than it really is.
16 from your report as being the fact. 16 That is my point.
17 It seems they are already guilty 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your
18 before you even have a chance to find 18 testimony, Brother.
19 out if there is any innocence. 19 Pat Ballantine.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: That is certainly 20 PATRICK BALLANTINE, called as a witness,
21 not a fact, Brother. 21 having been duly sworn, testified as
22 MR. PICKENS: I am letting you 22 follows:
23 know how I feel sitting here. 23 MR. BALLANTINE: What do you want
24 My main thing, I have been a 24 to know? I have been in this local 20
25 member of this local for a long time. 25 years.
275 277
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 Let me just restate what everybody 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Get close the mic.
3 else is saying; that when we got the 3 MR. BALLANTINE: Can you hear me
4 letter, I don't know if you are privy to 4 now?
5 the letter that the membership has 5 I have been in this local 20
6 gotten regarding what happened from the 6 years. I have been a shop steward for
7 council where it says -- 7 15. Okay.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I have read it into 8 I come in at 5:00 in the morning.
9 the record. 9 Sometimes I work through the night on a
10 MR. PICKENS: If I ask you, from 10 second shift. These gentlemen are
11 what you heard thus far, do you concur 11 there. Okay. They are always there.
12 that it is a mismanaged mess? 12 You guys might not see them
13 THE CHAIRMAN: I am not here to 13 physically in the building but they are
14 make a determination now or at the close 14 out in the field. They have been on my
15 of the hearing until I have had a chance 15 jobs countless times.
16 to go through all of the testimony, 16 They have come and bailed me out
17 revisit the transcript, confer with my 17 plenty of times when I had problems with
18 colleague and then make a recommendation 18 contractors.
19 to the general executive board. 19 I got to deal with the non-union
20 Ultimately this body isn't going 20 guys that these guys sign up.
21 to make the decision. It will be the 21 You know what? Sometimes it is
22 general executive board of the United 22 not a farce because these guys are my
23 Brotherhood of Carpenters. 23 brothers and they are always there.
24 MR. PICKENS: My conclusion, I was 24 They are there 100 percent.
25 going to say, those are definitely 25 I call them any time during the
70
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
278 280
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 day. They pick up the phone. 2 That is all I wanted to say.
3 The phone is just as good, just as 3 Thank you.
4 good as them physically being there 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 because they are -- they back us. No 5 All right. This meeting will --
6 one else backs us. Independent 6 it is 4:03.
7 auditors, investigators, they don't back 7 We will recess and reconvene at
8 us. These guys back us. 8 6:00 p.m.
9 I have been threatened on the 9 Thank you.
10 lines. I have been threatened as a 10 (Recess)
11 steward and I don't see any of you guys 11 THE CHAIRMAN: If I can have
12 coming around, but I got these guys 12 everybody's attention we will start the
13 behind my back watching me. 13 hearing.
14 That is all I have to say. 14 We have had a long day. I want to
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks, Pat. 15 go over how many of you were not here at
16 The last witness at this session 16 either one of the other sessions?
17 will be Glendy Jimenez. 17 There is quite a few.
18 GLENDY JIMENEZ,called as a witness, having 18 We have taken testimony from two
19 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 19 different sessions, the morning session
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon. 20 and an afternoon session, and they both
21 Are you a member of lS7? 21 have been prett packed with testimony.
22 MS. JIMENEZ: Yes. I have been a 22 I think we took 36 or 34 witnesses
23 member of 157 for a short time. 23 in the second session.
24 I used to be a member for Local 24 I want to explain a little bit
25 45. 25 about what we are doing here and the
279 281
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 I wanted to say that even though 2 rules that we are doing it under.
3 while I was a member of other locals I 3 I am not going to take the time --
4 also saw the business agents. 4 everybody received the letter dated
5 Most of the time I work in 157 5 December 3 from the general president
6 area so the people that I got to know 6 which called this hearing; is that
7 was the 157 group. 7 correct? That was mailed out?
8 Whenever I had any problems or 8 I want to introduce the hearing's
9 issues they were always there for me, to 9 panel and explain a bit about what we
10 help me out. 10 are here for.
11 No matter what local I belong to, 11 To my left is Jack Simmons who is
12 when you first come into the union you 12 a representative of the international
13 are like a chicken without a head. You 13 union here on the hearings paneL.
14 don't know what to do, what is right and 14 To my right is Bill Halbert. Bill
15 wrong. 15 Halbert is the executive secretary of
16 A lot of old members tell you 16 the midatlantic regional council of
17 this, do this. These guys come to you 17 carpenters.
18 and they tell you about corruption. 18 My name is Mike Draper. I am the
19 You saying they have corruption. 19 international vice president for the
20 No, you can't do this. You can't do 20 western part of the United States. I am
21 that. This is what you are supposed to 21 the chairman of this hearing.
22 do. This is what a contractor is 22 We also have in attendance,
23 supposed to do for you. 23 Frank -- are you here -- Frank Spencer
24 They are there everyday, all the 24 who is my counterpart here on the east
25 time. 25 coast. He has been recently appointed
71
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
282 284
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 vice president for the eastern district 2 We will confer and then we will
3 of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters 3 make a finding and a recommendation to
4 and is doing an outstanding job, I might 4 the general executive board of the
5 add. 5 United Brotherhood of carpenters who
6 And also Mike Capelli is here with 6 will then determine whether or not the
7 the internationaL. Mike is an
7 supervision should continue or cease.
8 international representative assigned to 8 That is the process that we go
9 the eastern district. 9 through.
10 Is all members here members in 10 Again, I want to make sure that
11 good standing of the organization? 11 everybody understands that we are going
12 Now, I intend to take testimony 12 to have order in the room.
13 from members of this local union. 13 I want everybody to be able to
14 Any other members are allowed to 14 stay in the room to listen to all of the
15 be here in the United Brotherhood but 15 witnesses but if it gets unruly what
16 unless you are -- you have something . 16 happens is we clear the room and call
17 pertinent to this, if you are outside 17 the witnesses in one at a time because
18 this local union you would have to get 18 we are the ones that need to get the
19 permission from this committee in order 19 information.
20 to testify. 20 Now I want to make a couple of
21 I want everybody to understand a 21 things clear about what is going on in
22 few simple rules. 22 this hearing because it appears that
23 We will not have any questions, 23 there are some misconception.
24 cross fire examinations from the floor. 24 The reason that we are here.
25 We don't need applause, we don't 25 Three things have happened.
283 285
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 need jeering, we don't need anything 2 Number one, there has been some
3 else. 3 testimony -- there has been some
4 I want to run this in a fair and 4 allegation that agents of this local
5 constructive manner. 5 union were, in fact, not doing what they
6 I want you to show courtesy to the 6 were supposed to do as agents and they
7 witnesses and to the committee. 7 are not -- I shouldn't say agents of the
8 We are an investigating committee. 8 locaL. They are agents of the district
9 I want that understood. We are not here 9 council in terms of being in their work
10 conducting a trial or prosecution. 10 area on certain days of the year when
11 What happens is the general 11 they are required to be in their work
12 president based on the letter that was 12 area.
13 sent out feels that there are some 13 There are some allegations about
14 issues going on in this local union 14 falSifying records or not even filing
15 which justify an emergency supervision 15 records on weekly reports, about their
16 and once that was imposed he immediately 16 activities in this local union.
17 selected a panel which is the panel up 17 There are -- that is exasperated
18 here to go in and investigate, take 18 by the fact that as a result of two of
19 testimony as to what is going on in this 19 those resigning, one getting discharged,
20 local union and that is exactly what we 20 two offcers, one getting indicted,
21 are here to do.
21 another pleading guilty to a felony, has
22 Upon the conclusion of this 22 left a large void in the offcers and
23 hearing we will take the transcript, all 23 the key offcers of this local union.
24 of the documents that have been entered 24 So if you remove the agents, they
25 into testimony, we wil review them. 25 in turn are offcers. You have a
72
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
286 288
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 tremendous void. 2 That is well and good. You are
3 In addition to that, as a result 3 certainly welcome to come up and give
4 of the imposition of an emergency 4 that testimony again.
5 supervision, an auditor from the 5 I want to make another thing very
6 international was sent in to audit the 6 clear. It isn't -- the discharge of the
7 books to make a determination if there 7 business agents is only a small part of
8 was any financial wrongdoing in this 8 why it is under emergency supervision.
9 local union. 9 The fact of the matter, when you
10 We always do that during a period 10 put all of the other ingredients
11 of supervision. 11 together, the loss of all the offcers
12 While there is nothing that would 12 which is the key ingredient is what
13 indicate to date that there has been any 13 caused this to go under emergency
14 pilfering or any financial 14 supervision.
15 improprieties, meaning somebody stealing 15 Notwithstanding all of the
16 the money of the local union, during 16 testimony that we can take here today or
17 this audit it was determined beyond a 17 tomorrow, the next day or whenever
18 reasonable doubt that the type of 18 anybody wants to talk about supporting
19 bookkeeping system that was being 19 business agents, the international union
20 employed here was nothing short of 20 does not employ, retain or fire business
21 shabby. 21 agents.
22 There were missing checks, there 22 The business agents here, contrary
23 were canceled checks, all of which we 23 to a lot of people's belief in some of
24 think to a degree we can determine now 24 these sessions, are not local union
25 has been accounted for, but there was 25 business agents.
287 289
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 some administrative discrepancies, and, 2 They work in the jurisdiction of
3 as a result of that, and that alone, 3 the local union but are employed by the
4 would create an atmosphere to get 4 New York District Council of Carpenters
5 somebody involved in doing at least some 5 in all cases.
6 massive training. 6 Their retention, lack of retention
7 The supervisor, Frank Spencer, who 7 or hiring of new agents does not come
8 is now in charge of this local union as 8 under the jurisdiction of the United
9 the supervisor and his folks working 9 Brotherhood of Carpenters.
10 under him have immediately put in place 10 We are not in the business of
11 training so that the offce help in this 11 hiring business agents and overseeing
12 local union can get adequate training in 12 the business agent process.
13 order to make sure that this local 13 We have a system in place where
14 functions as an honorable and successful 14 the district and regional council are
15 local union. 15 the ones responsible for that endeavor.
16 I want to point something else out 16 So one of the things that we are
17 because we have had a lot of the 17 not going to be determining as to
18 testimony. 18 whether the supervision goes forward or
19 It appears that several of you or 19 not forward is whether or not business
20 several of the folks that were here 20 agents are hired and what business
21 previously got up and said, well, we 21 agents are hired because that is the
22 like our business agents. Even though 22 responsibility of the district counciL.
23 they weren't on the job all the time, 23 You can bring that up at a
24 they were available by the telephone and 24 district council meeting, those that are
25 therefore we support our business agent. 25 delegates. So I just want you to
73
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
290 292
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 understand. 2 issues that was burning in the minds of
3 You are welcome to give testimony 3 some of you folks.
4 about it. We have had a lot of 4 There was a gentleman that was --
5 testimony. I am not saying that you 5 that we had omitted from testimony.
6 don't have the right to do that but I am 6 Is he in the room? I told him I
7 just saying that the international 7 would call him up first if he was
8 through its deliberations is not 8 present.
9 determining whether or not folks are 9 He is not here. I don't recall
10 retained as business agents. 10 his name. That is a recall. He had not
11 One of the other things that I 11 testified and he said he submitted his
12 think is on the mind of a lot of people 12 name. We called it and he was out of
13 because we heard an inordinate amount of 13 the room at the time we called it.
14 testimony relative to saving Local 157. 14 I just wanted to make sure that I
15 I can't read anything into the 15 let him know that I had remembered if he
16 general president's letter, and, if you 16 had wanted to stay here.
17 can, I want you to get up and testify 17 I will call Steven Spinazzola.
18 and show me so that I wil be become 18 When you come up I want everybody
19 educated where the general president, 19 to face the court reporter, give your
20 where the vice president of the eastern 20 name, spell your name and then raise
21 district now or through supervision or 21 your right-hand after he is done and he
22 in the past, has indicated at any given 22 will swear you in.
23 time that they intend to dissolve, 23 STEVEN SPINAZZOLA,calied as a witness,
24 merge, create a different atmosphere for 24 having been duly sworn, testified as
25 Local 157. I don't see it. 25 follows:
291 293
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 Everybody concerned about the 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Hi, Brother.
3 international coming in and doing 3 MR. SPINAZZOLA: Hello, Brothers.
4 something with Local 157, certainly 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Steven, are you a
5 under supervision, if he was going to do 5 local member?
6 it, he could have done it yesterday. 6 MR. SPINAZOLA: I am.
7 I don't think there is any 7 THE CHAIRMAN: What I need you to
8 indication that that is what we are here 8 do is get close up and personal with
9 to do. 9 that mic.
10 What the international is trying 10 MR. SPINAZZOLA: Yes.
11 to do is make sure the affairs of this 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer
12 local union get back in an orderly 12 or former officer of the local?
13 manner, that the membership gets 13 MR. SPINAZZOLA: No, I am not.
14 serviced. 14 I am a member for over 21 years.
15 Whether you believe it or you 15 I have worked side-by-side with these
16 don't believe it that is in our keen and 16 men out in the field and union hall.
17 best interests and your best interests 17 I have shaped. Always gave me
18 in that we have an administration and an 18 good and proper service. I never felt
19 administrative process in this local 19 like they did anything that was unjust
20 union that is well organized and well 20 as far as getting other members work or
21 functioned so everybody knows what 21 myself work and I would hate to lose
22 everybody is doing. 22 these guys as business agents.
23 So with that I am going to begin 23 These are people that I have come
24 to call witnesses. 24 to know and trust when I come to shape a
25 I hope that clarifies some of the 25 job or look for men.
74
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
294 296
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 I am formerly with Nastazzi & 2 family.
3 Associates. 3 I grew very attached to this. I
4 THE CHAIRMAN: You got to get real 4 don't want to have none of them leave.
5 close to the mic. The guys in the back 5 Personally, I don't -- that is me.
6 have no chance. 6 There is a lot of other members that
7 Can you hear him now? 7 will come and testify or whatever they
8 MR. SPINAZOLA: I think it would 8 do. They are our family.
9 be a real shame to lose these men as our 9 They are not here for other
10 leaders. 10 people. They are for us, not
11 Prett much that is what I have to 11 themselves.
12 say. 12 It doesn't matter what anyone
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your 13 says, they are here for us. They have
14 testimony, Steven. 14 always been here for us.
15 MR. SPINAZOLA: Thank you. 15 Ten years, I came in. They helped
16 Todd Siemers. 16 me. That is it.
17 MR. SIEMERS: I just came to get 17 I can't see them doing anything
18 some information. You made the things 18 wrong because they have always helped
19 very clear, a bit more clear of what I 19 all of us.
20 need to know, so -- 20 If we had problems we came to
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 21 them, they tried to help us out.
22 MR. SIEMERS: So I am going to 22 Basically I don't want to see
23 take a pass. Thank you. 23 nothing happen to our local and I don't
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Joseph Rizzitano. 24 want other people to turn around and
25 JOSEPH RIZZITANO, called as a witness, 25 come up with theories that we are going
295 297
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 having been duly sworn, testified as 2 to disappear.
3 follows: 3 It is not going to happen.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Brother, how are 4 Whatever you do, please do the
5 you tonight? 5 right thing for us like they do.
6 MR. RIZZITANO: I am all right. 6 Whoever you decide to put in
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for 7 charge, if you decide to let Local 157
8 coming to the hearing. 8 vote on whoever is going to be in
9 Are you a member of Local lS7? 9 charge, not take it upon yourselves to
10 MR. RIZZITANO: Yes. 10 turn around and put people in charge who
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer 11 don't know what they are doing.
12 or prior officer of Local lS7? 12 This is a family. It is not one
13 MR. RIZZITANO: No. 13 of these things that is just going to go
14 I have been part of this local for 14 away.
15 ten years. 15 That is prett much all I have to
16 All the gentlemen that are here, 16 say.
17 that you dismissed or whatever, they 17 So, please, when you turn around
18 have been my family for ten years. 18 and think about what you are doing
19 Okay. I respect them. I care about 19 remember this is our family.
20 them and everyhing. They have always 20 So if you are here think about it
21 been here for us, not themselves, they 21 as it is our family and think about it
22 have been here for us. 22 for us, not yourselves or anything like.
23 That is what we need as a locaL. 23 I can't really see these gentlemen
24 That is part of my family. All the 24 doing anything wrong.
25 brothers and sisters of 157 is my 25 They have always been here for us.
75
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
298 300
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 That is very, very important to me and 2 THE CHAIRMAN: I am doing well.
3 whoever else but mostly me. 3 MR. MIRANDA: Gentlemen, thank you
4 Thank you. 4 for sitting in on these hearings today.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold on just a 5 As I said, my name is Bruce
6 second. 6 Miranda. I am a certified shop steward
7 Let me clarify one thing so you 7 district counciL.
8 understand. 8 I have been a member with 257, 157
9 You say the guys that we 9 since 1973 so I am prett much
10 dismissed. 10 accustomed to seeing the activities of
11 Understand that this hearing panel 11 the business agent and what their duties
12 for the first time this morning when we 12 are.
13 entered this room knew who was 13 I like to say that the business
14 dismissed. 14 agents of 157, at least in my
15 We are not part of the -- 15 experience, have always been there when
16 MR. RIZZITANO: I understand what 16 I placed the call, when I visited them
17 you are saying. 17 to take care of any union problems
18 THE CHAIRMAN: When you say "you 18 and/or benefits, issues or whatever
19 dismissed," you have got to watch what 19 union problems may have, did arise.
20 you are saying because we didn't dismiss 20 I like to say that at all -- all
21 anybody and so it is very important that 21 of my experience with all these
22 you understand what we are here for is 22 gentlemen that were business agents with
23 to gain information and to make a 23 the -- with 157 they have been always
24 determination as to whether this 24 there when in fact I needed to get in
25 supervision should continue or not 25 touch with anybody.
299 301
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 continue. 2 I have to say especially Mr. Fred
3 Do you understand? 3 Kennedy. Mr. Kennedy has always been
4 MR. RIZZITANO: All right, but the 4 available at any particular time almost
5 people that you are taking away from us, 5 24/7, should I say.
6 boom, you need to put them back in where 6 I am not here to put you gentlemen
7 they belong. 7 in the position or make an allegation to
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your 8 you that you are removing them or
9 testimony. 9 whatever.
10 Bruce V-G-I-R or B-lR-A-N-D-A. 10 I am sure you are only here to
11 Miranda. 11 take testimony and observe what exactly
12 M. Bruce Miranda. 12 is going on. So please don't let
13 BRUCE MIRANDA, called as a witness, having 13 anything that I am going to say and
14 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 14 direct it towards you.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: That is Miranda? 15 I am sure that most people that
16 MR. MIRANDA: That is Miranda, 16 these letters that I received from Mr.
17 like the warnings. 17 McCarron and also Mr. Forde in regards
18 iHE CHAIRMAN: Bruce, are you a 18 to these allegations that have been
19 member of Local lS7? 19 thrown, put up, forwarded to us and the
20 MR. MIRANDA: Yes, I am. 20 independent investigator, that he made
21 THE CHAIRMAN: An offcer of 1S7? 21 allegations that he was able to get
22 MR. MIRANDA: No, I am not. 22 phone records and made these statements
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your 23 when in fact it is hard for me to
24 testimony. 24 believe that these men were not around.
25 MR. MIRANDA: How are you doing? 25 Now, maybe me being in this union
76
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
302 304
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 for 35 years and I am making the 2 prejudiced with any race, color and they
3 statement now that any particular time 3 always were out there organizing before
4 that I did call I was able to reach a 4 the organizers were around.
5 business agent to resolve the problem. 5 They volunteered, each and every
6 There is not a time that I was 6 one of them and parades.
7 left hanging more than 20 minutes or 7 What else? Picnics, whatever
8 anything like that. 8 outings, you know, scholarships, they
9 If -- in fact, if I had directed 9 always been together.
10 my problem and I had to resolve it early 10 They always worked together and I
11 in the morning, at 5:30 in the morning, 11 have been a shop steward in 608 and
12 I was able to go up to 157 and see Fred 12 always got a lot of feedback from shop
13 Kennedy sitting behind his desk and I 13 stewards over at 608 that our local is
14 was able to discuss the problem at hand 14 very forward, straight up because all
15 and I was able to get a decisive answer 15 the business agents are out there, all
16 within that day to resolve the problem. 16 in one room, and they feel comfortable
17 Can you hear me? 17 coming in with their report and, you
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. 18 know, that is my honest opinion.
19 MR. MIRANDA: So my statement is 19 That is all I got say. I think
20 that I don't know where all this 20 this is not right.
21 information is coming from. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your
22 What kind of investigator has done 22 testimony.
23 this background work, how good the 23 Hercules Reid, did he get back in
24 investigator is and it baffles me that 24 the room?
25 this has come up to play with these 25 Come on up.
303 305
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 individuals, felons charged with this 2 HERCULES REID, called as a witness, having
3 felony results back to us and turns 3 been duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 around and say these men were not doing 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
5 their job. It confuses me in this 5 Hercules, are you a member of lS7?
6 fashion. 6 MR. REID: Yes, I am.
7 What I would like to say to you is 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Would you get real
8 thank you very much for your time. 8 close the mic so everybody can hear you?
9 This is my statement. 9 Okay.
10 Have a good evening. 10 Offcer.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for 11 MR. REID: No.
12 coming and testifying. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your
13 Is Hercules Reid in the room? 13 testimony.
14 A VOICE: He went to a parking 14 MR. REID: I have been a member in
15 meter. 15 this local for a good number of years
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 16 now and I have seen changes since the
17 How about James Corradina? 17 time I have been there.
18 JAMES CORRADINA, called as a witness, 18 I remember -- I am a little bit
19 having been duly sworn, testified as 19 out of breath because I ran to the
20 follows: 20 meter.
21 MR. CORRADINA: My name is James 21 THE CHAIRMAN: I understand.
22 Corradina, member of 157, 22 years; shop 22 MR. REID: I remember when there
23 steward 17 years back, and each and -- 23 was a big change, George Menman was the
24 and each and every business agent has 24 president of the local and he was
25 been honest, fair, loyal, never 25 removed and replaced.
77
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
306 308
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 I remember other business agents, 2 been.
3 for example, Mike Biello was a business 3 I think that we have to again look
4 agent and he was removed. 4 for ways to make this local more --
5 The pOint here is that we have 5 there is more equality among all the
6 seen changes and we have been -- 6 members, whether in leadership or
7 endeavored to move forward and hoping 7 offcers or whatever it is.
8 for better for the local, for the entire 8 I think that we need to look for
9 locaL. 9 ways for improving and move forward.
10 Inasmuch as I do not -- do not 10 We have to always look forward to
11 agree in some way or another in the way 11 see how we can better make the local and
12 that the members -- the offcers were 12 the union on a whole better.
13 removed from offce yet and still I have 13 As I said, a couple members
14 to say that I believe that we as a local 14 resigned. Okay. So they decided that
15 must move forward. 15 they are not going to come back.
16 We have to look for ways to make 16 We can't move back with those
17 this local better for all members, not 17 members. We have to look for ways to
18 just a few, but all members. 18 move ahead.
19 We have trouble a lot over the 19 We are now in the process of
20 years and, as I said, we have seen many 20 change and we have to just try to do our
21 changes. 21 best to make it work for everybody.
22 I have supported even a business 22 I hope that whatever panel or
23 agent who have been removed even now in 23 group of people come together to look
24 many ways and in some form or another, 24 into how to better work, make this union
25 you know, as I said, I think it might 25 a better place for everybody, that they
307 309
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 have been heavy handed in some way or 2 will also consult with the members to
3 another. 3 see how they can at least get their
4 As the letter stated, okay, two of 4 opinion in ways to make the local better
5 the members resigned, and apparently 5 because for many years also I have seen
6 they felt it was necessary for them to 6 where, you know, the members were never
7 resign. 7 consulted on issues and I feel that
8 I heard members saying maybe we 8 members are sometimes, you know, put in
9 need to get back these members in office 9 the back burner and things were just run
10 but they resigned so we have to move 10 down their throat.
11 forward. We have to move forward. 11 I am hoping in this period here
12 We have to seek ways to make this 12 members would be consulted; you know
13 local better. 13 would be asked what they think and how,
14 You know, the local has to be a 14 you know, they think we should move
15 local that is about the members, all the 15 forward instead of just throwing things
16 members, not just a few members, but all 16 at them.
17 of the members. 17 This is what I would hope for and
18 We have to be rightly represented 18 I am hoping that this local can move
19 right across the board. We have to find 19 forward, we can make it a better,
20 ways in making sure that all the members 20 stronger and more successful union.
21 are represented because I personally 21 I hope that, you know, the people
22 feel there are times when -- and I have 22 that are now in offce will also try to
23 heard it many times -- that some members 23 think about all the members, not just
24 feel as if they were out of place in 24 the selected few or whatever the case
25 their own local and that should not have 25 might be but every member.
78
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
310 312
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 We have over 4,000 members and we 2 years ago he get locked up at a rally
3 are all card carrying members, dues 3 for inciting a riot.
4 paying members and everyone should be 4 His back was to the wall and if I
5 thought of as equal. 5 am not mistaken he went to court on a
6 So I am saying that we need to 6 state charge.
7 look for ways to make this union better 7 They threw it out to a federal
8 for everyone. 8 charge. It went back as a state charge,
9 I thank you. 9 went back and forth for 100 years.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much 10 All right.
11 for your testimony. 11 But yet he was there for the union
12 Is it Drew Lacey? 12 and for the membership and for the men.
13 I will hold him. 13 If I am not mistaken when other
14 Ken Baumann, are you here? 14 members of this union had legal problems
15 Kenny, you told me you would be 15 he was also there for them too if I am
16 here when we started. 16 not mistaken.
17 MR. BAUMANN: I was. 17 That is off the record.
18 KENNY BAUMANN, called as a witness, having 18 That guy is 100 percent union, all
19 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 19 right.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: If we are going to 20 To cut his legs out is a travesty.
21 play games -- you do what the court 21 As far as taking off from work
22 reporter asked you to do and everybody 22 early, he has put the key in the door at
23 is going to be courteous to everybody 23 5:40 every morning for 10 years.
24 else, Ken, or you won't testify. 24 I went in there with him a lot of
25 MR. BAUMANN: Point taken. 25 times. He is accessible.
311 313
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 We came here to testify for 2 If you guys don't want to believe
3 Mr. Kennedy, our locaL. Now it is in 3 about the cell phone stuff, cell phone,
4 the papers, but you guys -- their 4 faxes and all the other nonsense and
5 integrity has been slandered. 5 whatnot.
6 I have known Mr. Kennedy over 18 6 I guarantee he will get out of bed
7 years. I am very close to him over 7 and be right there if there is a fucking
8 seven. 8 problem.
9 I will testify here under oath 9 He has proven himself numerous
10 that I see him on a day-to-day basis. 10 times to this local and this union.
11 That man, he answers the phone on 11 Other guys may be to the union
12 holidays, weekends, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 at 12 whatever the case may be but he is there
13 night. 13 100 percent.
14 He answers the phone like you 14 I don't know where I am going with
15 cannot believe to the point where on his 15 this. I am kind of nervous about this,
16 free time -- we ride bikes together. 16 but you should have more members like
17 Every four minutes he has to stop and 17 him. You really should.
18 answer the phone, go out of the garage 18 This is a real travesty.
19 and take a call to either correct 19 If you want to roil your eyes,
20 problems, help people out, do the right 20 roll your eyes. I am probably
21 thing. 21 committing suicide right here but that
22 Tommy Lasorda once said he bleeds 22 is just the way it is, all right.
23 Dodger blue. 23 Obviously somebody had to be a
24 That man bleeds union blood. 24 sacrificial lamb and he was your guy.
25 Okay. If I am not mistaken didn't 25 This commission -- I will leave it
79
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
314 316
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 at that.
2 Just like my brother Mr. Baumann
3 Thanks for hearing me out. 3 said, this is a travesty.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's hold it down. 4 Freddie has been unbelievable to
5 For your information, I wasn't 5 even members from 608 that you are on
6 rolling my eyes. The lights are 6 the job and you hear everybody has got
7 bothering my eyes. 7 nothing good -- nothing but good to say
8 My eyes weren't rolling. The 8 about Freddie. He has always been
9 light is bothering my eyes. 9 there.
10 MR. BAUMANN: I got a pair of 10 I think it is a crying shame what
11 sunglasses. Do you want to -- 11 happened to my offcers.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't need your 12 I am just so aggravated, it is
13 sunglasses. 13 hard to say because you know the
14 Thank you. 14 language I would use is inappropriate.
15 Drew Lacey. 15 I am just very upset and I think
16 DREW LACEY called as a witness, having 16 that will be all.
17 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Drew, are you a 18 testimony.
19 member of 157. 19 Eric Mason.
20 MR. LACEY: Yes, I am. 20 ERIC MASON, called as a witness, having
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? 21 been duly sworn, testified as follows:
22 MR. LACEY: No. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Eric, get real
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 23 close the mic.
24 MR. LACEY: Good evening, 24 Are you an officer of the locaL.
25 gentlemen. 25 MR. MASON: Yes, I am.
315 317
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 I am here to say what happened to 2 THE CHAIRMAN: What are you?
3 these officers is a crying shame. 3 MR. MASON: I am a carpenter
4 These are good guys, that I can 4 steward.
5 say I worked with on the side, that have 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Not an elected
6 always been there even for the members 6 officer of the local?
7 before they were offcers. 7 MR. MASON: No.
8 One of those gentlemen is Freddie 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
9 Kennedy. He has been there for the guys 9 MR. MASON: Once again, my name is
10 even before he got put and elected to 10 Eric Mason.
11 his position.
11 I have been -- I was initiated in
12 I can say numerous times I have 12 this local, let's say, the carpenters
13 gone to Local 157. I walked in there I 13 local in 1982 and I transferred over to
14 can say quarter to 6:00 and I have seen 14 carpenters Local 257 back in 1983.
15 my offcers sitting there. 15 You know what I want to say is my
16 I seen Freddie, I seen Georgie, 16 delegates have always been by my side,
17 Danny, Billy. I seen them all siting 17 especially where a person like me, I
18 there. 18 have a problem staying on the payrolL.
19 If I had a problem I would call 19 I know that I can always knock on lS7's
20 Freddie. I would call George and say, 20 door for support. I know my business
21 listen there is something going on over 21 agents are there to back me up.
22 here. 22 Like every local runs their local
23 What is the address, Drew. 23 differently, you know. Whereas some
24 Give him the address. Freddie was 24 locals you see business agents on the
25 already there. He was already there. 25 job sites, sometimes you don't, but the
80
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
318 320
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 way I work is when I get on the job site 2 pride, integrity. They are great labor
3 after I am dispatched to a job I call my 3 leaders.
4 business agent up. I say, hi, my name 4 I think if the international
5 is Eric Mason. I am at such and such 5 really had the concern of this local in
6 address. 6 mind they would have gone about this a
7 Most of the times the business 7 lot differently.
8 agents know what job I am at and they 8 George DiLacio, Freddie Kennedy,
9 know I am there. 9 he is a stand-up union man. They stand
10 They say, let me see you on such 10 behind their members daily, everyday, on
11 and such a date. 11 call 24/7.
12 You know, I was just -- I was 12 It would be a catastrophic mistake
13 shocked we didn't have a Christmas 13 to remove these men, our elected
14 part. 14 offcials, not Michael Forde's business
15 You know, I don't usually say a 15 agents, my elected offcials.
16 lot at the meetings because I am kind of 16 No democratic process here. These
17 shy but I feel like this is one time 17 men have been unfairly removed from
18 that I need to come down and give my 18 their positions.
19 business agents some support. 19 Under what terms or what slander,
20 If my testimony can do anything to 20 we don't know. We don't believe what we
21 help them out and the local I am here to 21 are hearing. It is contrary to what we
22 help because the local has been by my 22 have seen, what they have exercised 25
23 side since 1982, 1983. 23 years of me knowing these men on a
24 We all know who is in charge, you 24 personalleve!.
25 know. I just hope that any decisions 25 There have been personal problems
319 321
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 that are made will be the right 2 with me, guided me through, business,
3 decisions for the membership and for the 3 personal.
4 locaL. 4 There is a lot of things I can say
5 Thank you for letting me say what 5 about their character but their
6 I would say. My name is Eric Mason. 6 character speaks for itself.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks, Eric. 7 If the international truly had
8 Thank you for coming down. 8 this local in mind they wouldn't have
9 Philip Ficarra. 9 gone about it the way they did.
10 PHILIP FICARRA, called as a witness, 10 They ripped our heart out. They
11 having been duly sworn, testified as 11 took two labor leaders and took them
12 follows: 12 from their jobs.
13 MR. FICARRA: Thank you for taking 13 They were given ultimatums. These
14 the time. 14 men are labor leaders; strong, proud,
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an officer 15 pride, integrity.
16 of the local, Philip? 16 There is nothing more I can say on
17 MR. FICARRA: No. Job steward. 17 their behalf. I am at a loss for words.
18 Proud member of the local 27 years. 18 25 years in this locaL. Nothing
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for 19 can say what the international has done
20 coming. 20 to this locaL. They ripped our hearts
21 Go ahead. 21 out again.
22 MR. FICARRA: I dealt with these 22 I have a list of things that I
23 men on all different levels from project 23 wanted to say. I think I prett much
24 to project manager to supervisors on 24 covered it alL.
25 jobs. They have exercised nothing but 25 I thank you for coming tonight.
81
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
322 324
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 You have a happy holiday. 2 follows:
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 3 THE CHAIRMAN: How are you
4 Joe Faith. 4 tonight.
5 JOSEPH FAITH, called as a witness, having 5 MR. SALVADOR: I am a proud member
6 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 6 of Local 157 for 21 years and I really
7 MR. FAITH: Mr. Draper, merry 7 want to find out what is going on
8 Christmas. 8 tonight.
9 Welcome to New York City. 9 You say tonight you have no proof
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 10 of the accusations. That is what I
11 Are you a member of Local -- 11 heard. You had told me -- that is what
12 MR. FAITH: I am a member of Local 12 you told me when I walked in here.
13 257, Local 157 over 25 years. 13 THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know that I
14 I am a certified shop steward in 14 talked to you when you walked in here
15 New York City. Phil Ficarra just summed 15 but when we opened the hearing --
16 up my whole statement. 16 MR. SALVADOR: Yes.
17 I mean, he said nothing more than 17 THE CHAIRMAN: So that you
18 anybody else could say about these two 18 understand and everybody understands
19 gentlemen. 19 again, we are taking testimony.
20 MR. FICARRA: I had a lot more to 20 MR. SALVADOR: That's right.
21 say if I had more time. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: We have testimony
22 MR. FAITH: The misconception 22 about some allegations.
23 about some time, there is a lot of pros 23 MR. SALVADOR: Allegations.
24 and cons on to that because you 24 THE CHAIRMAN: Wait a minute.
25 gentlemen you are on the clock 24/7 just 25 MR. SALVADOR: I will wait.
323 325
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 like they are. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: That is exactly
3 You get a phone call at 6:00 when 3 what we are here for.
4 you are having your dinner and you have 4 If the testimony had already been
5 to look at it with a little speculation. 5 proven, it wouldn't be necessary for us
6 Freddie Kennedy, I can call and he 6 to be here.
7 is having dinner at the diner and he 7 MR. SALVADOR: You said it was an
8 will help you out. 8 atmosphere; action is taken because of
9 Georgie is making a deal at a Jets 9 an atmosphere.
10 game on a Sunday afternoon and he will 10 That is what I heard you say. I
11 help you out. 11 heard you say that.
12 These guys did nothing wrong here. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: You came in because
13 Now, if you feel that you have to 13 of an atmosphere.
14 be here, then let Mr. Spencer be here. 14 MR. SALVADOR: It is only an
15 These men should be reinstated, 15 atmosphere that actions will be taken.
16 retroactive immediately, and let Mr. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: You have
17 Spencer oversee, if that is the way you 17 resignations, you have indictments.
18 want it to be, but bring the house back 18 MR. SALVADOR: By whom?
19 together. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: I said -- hold on.
20 Merry Christmas. 20 Stop.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your 21 The rest of you, if you want to
22 testimony. 22 butt in, go outside.
23 How about Steven Salvador? 23 So that there is no
24 STEPHEN SALVADOR, called as a witness, 24 misunderstanding here I am going to get
25 having been duly sworn, testified as 25 through this hearing and if we have to
82
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
326 328
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 clear the hall and have you come in one 2 I would like to say the true accusations
3 at a time to testify in front of this 3 against them are proven.
4 committee, I will let you know right now 4 I don't want them to be dismissed
5 that that is exactly what will happen. 5 on an atmosphere because that is what I
6 We are going to listen to somebody 6 heard earlier.
7 up there, give them the courtesy and you 7 There is a lot going on. Prove it
8 are going to give this committee the 8 and then remove them.
9 courtesy. 9 That is it. That is my testimony.
10 If not, the hall will be emptied 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11 and I will assure you of that because we 11 Ken, I can't really read it right,
12 are going to get the testimony the 12 B-L-U-L-L or T-T.
13 general president sent us down here to 13 KENNETH BLUHM, called as a witness, having
14 get one way or another. 14 been duly sworn, testified as follows:
15 So that you all understand the 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Ken, are you a
16 rules we are working under that is the 16 member of lS7?
17 rules we are working under. 17 MR. BLUHM: Yes, I am.
18 Go ahead. 18 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead in your
19 MR. SALVADOR: Okay. That is what 19 testimony.
20 I understood when I walked in. 20 MR. BLUHM: You didn't ask me if I
21 THE CHAIRMAN: If you have some 21 am offcer.
22 testimony to give about 157, you give 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you?
23 the testimony. 23 MR. BLUHM: I have to tell you
24 MR. SALVADOR: I will give my 24 that perhaps I have the dubious
25 testimony. 25 distinction of being the shortest
327 329
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 I am a very proud member, as I 2 serving delegate in the history of the
3 mentioned, for 21 years. 3 UBC.
4 My officers have served me very 4 I was appointed a couple days
5 well. 5 before the officers of my local were
6 I am very proud of all of them. 6 either forced or asked to resign or be
7 I don't know what is happening 7 dismissed, so I attended two meetings.
8 tonight because you have no proof, that 8 However, many of the brothers and
9 is what you told me, of the accusations. 9 sisters in this room know me as a
10 You said it is an atmosphere that 10 co-worker, as a shop steward, certified
11 they have to be removed. 11 shop steward and as foreman.
12 Am I wrong what you told me? 12 Probably most people in this room
13 THE CHAIRMAN: I am not going into 13 know me in my position as serving as
14 that. 14 Local lS7's representative to the
15 I never said an atmosphere. 15 election committee both at the local
16 MR. SALVADOR: I heard it. 16 level and at the district councilleve!.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: The record will 17 Having said that, I am not here to
18 speak for itself. If you want to buy a 18 bâsh anybody else from other locals or
19 copy of the transcript work it out with 19 from other bodies.
20 the court reporter. 20 However, in general, in President
21 He will sell you one. 21 McCarron's letter to the membership
22 MR. SALVADOR: Yes, I would. 22 there is a line that says, "It appears
23 I would also like to say my 23 the affairs of the Local 157 are being
24 offcers have done very well for me all 24 conducted in a manner detrimental to the
25 through the years, each one of them, and 25 welfare and best interests of Local
83
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
330 332
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 157." 2 delegate body or as an officer of this
3 I put it to you, gentlemen, today 3 district counciL.
4 that former President William Hanley, 4 Again, on a personal note, as you
5 former Vice President George DiLacio, 5 have heard many other people say, I know
6 former financial secretary Fred Kennedy, 6 these men. I know these men for 18
7 while they may have been dismissed 7 years, some of them -- many of them
8 according to the rules of the 8 actually before they were business
9 Constitution by the EST of this district 9 agents, before they were even members of
10 council who has the ability to appoint 10 my original local 257.
11 and dismiss business agents and business 11 In that time they have all grown
12 representatives as he so chooses, these 12 to be excellent labor leaders as other
13 were elected offcials of our locaL. 13 people's testimony has said.
14 The thing that concerns me having 14 They have been there to back up
15 been active in my local's affairs, both 15 stewards, they have been to job sites.
16 politically and socially, is that my 16 When there was a problem when
17 local has been left without 17 somebody needed them there they were
18 representation. 18 there.
19 If they had been removed, simply 19 The other part of it is they also
20 been removed as business agents for not 20 had stewards they could trust. They
21 doing their jobs, perhaps a lot of us 21 knew the people that were out there.
22 could have understood that. 22 Since the stewards are being
23 Maybe some people would have 23 appointed out of the district council
24 agreed that they didn't do it to the 24 simply coming off a list, you could have
25 best of their ability. I am not saying 25 a guy who is not even a certified
331 333
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 that is the case. 2 steward, somebody who has been in the
3 However, in their positions as 3 local less than five or six years going
4 officers of the local they were duly 4 out on a steward's job where there is
5 elected by the membership of this local, 5 SO, 60 men and not having a clue as to
6 most by overwhelming majorities. 6 what to do.
7 The delegate body was elected by 7 Those are the jobs that business
8 the membership of the locaL. 8 agents need to go visit. They don't
9 Now, as I understand it, the terms 9 need to visit the jobs where there are
10 of trusteeship or supervision can 10 experienced men taking care of things
11 postpone elections up to 18 months. 11 and informing them as to what is going
12 Being familiar with the election 12 on.
13 procedure, the next district council 13 Thank you.
14 election is next December. 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your
15 If this local is not given 15 testimony.
16 elections prior to that we will have no 16 Arnold Bayley.
17 voice in the district council elections. 17 ARNOLD BAYLEY, called as a witness, having
18 We would not be able to run a 18 been duly sworn, testified as follows:
19 candidate as either vice president or 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening,
20 president of the district council should 20 Arnold.
21 someone choose because they need to be 21 MR. BAYLEY: Good evening.
22 an elected delegate. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you a member of
23 This local would be further harmed 23 lS7?
24 by not having any representation at the 24 MR. BAYLEY: Yes, I am.
25 district council level either in the 25 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you an offcer?
84
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
334 336
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 MR. BAYLEY: No. I am not. 2 the right benefits and the right wages,
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 3 that we don't have to look down to be
4 MR. BAYLEY: Sittng here and 4 construction people, like the outside
5 listening to all these testimonies, one 5 construction people are rude, they don't
6 thing I picked up, and it was redundant 6 know how to act, they have no class.
7 over and over and over. 7 Education. A lot of us know
8 We all belong to a great Local 8 educated people that decide I have a
9 157, our brotherhood. 9 better chance to become a union
10 I came -- I would say I am a young 10 carpenter and make a better wages than
11 guy in this locaL. I have had older men 11 working for corporate America that has
12 in this local who have been in this 12 no loyalty at alL. At the end of the
13 local over 30 years sat down with me 13 day all you can get is a toaster or a
14 personally and guide me through this 14 turkey or things for the service where I
15 local meaning how to show up on a job on 15 can go to my union delegates and
16 time, always be the first apprentice on 16 president and he will tell me, listen,
17 the job when I was an apprentice, always 17 don't worry about that, go out there and
18 being the last apprentice when I was the 18 do the best and I guarantee the best
19 apprentice, make sure you take all the 19 will come to you.
20 coffee orders right and do the right 20 Thank you.
21 thing. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 My president, vice president, 22 Karl Mark Songui.
23 financial secretary always asked me how 23 KARL MARK SONGUI, called as a witness,
24 are you doing, Arnold, how is the 24 having been duly sworn, testified as
25 family? 25 follows:
335 337
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 Coming to this local every time, 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Brother Karl, how
3 all the meetings, that means something 3 are you tonight?
4 to me. That means I belong to a real 4 Are you a member of the Local 157.
5 brotherhood. 5 MR. SONGUI: Yes.
6 A brotherhood is something where 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Officer?
7 even when one member have a problem, we 7 MR. SONGUI: No.
8 all have a problem, and sitting here 8 My name is Karl Mark Songui. I
9 that is what, what y'all was hearing. 9 have been a member of this local for
10 If our brothers have a problem, we 10 eight years.
11 are here to back our brothers. We are 11 To the charges brought up on my
12 showing them support as they shown me 12 officers, I find it hard to believe.
13 over the years. 13 When I was a first-year apprentice
14 The charges whatever was brought 14 coming to the meetings they always asked
15 up, I guarantee by the end of this 15 me how everyhing is going, how is my
16 hearing y'all will all have second 16 family, how is the job.
17 guessing on what these charges against 17 And when I graduated my
18 these men. 18 apprenticeship, became a mechanic, it
19 The only thing I have to say is I 19 continued.
20 am proud to be a union carpenter. 20 There were times when I knew I had
21 When I go out to different 21 to go to the hall to pay my dues and I
22 functions I can always say I am union 22 sawall of them there.
23 carpenter and be proud of it because the 23 I find it very hard to believe
24 men that we elected always go out there 24 these charges.
25 and look out for us, make sure we have 25 That is what I have to say.
85
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
338 340
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 THE CHAIRMAN: So you understand, 2 I have only been a brother in --
3 I don't recall charges. 3 in the Brotherhood for eight years.
4 If you understand, two of the 4 From the time that I have been in,
5 offcers, the key offcers, have 5 from my apprenticeship through into my
6 resigned their position and so you 6 journeymanship or whatever, I have
7 understand I have tried to, today, one 7 always been able to come to my local and
8 of the offcers that resigned his 8 my delegates with any problem that I
9 position, I tried to get a signed -- a 9 have, with any issues that might come
10 confidentiality agreement. 10 about.
11 I would like to see it. Council 11 Whenever I come to my local
12 can't provide it because they signed it. 12 meetings or go into the hall they come
13 He resigned both his office and 13 up to me and they shake my hand and they
14 his position as the business 14 call me by my name, and that means
15 representative under a confidentiality 15 something to me.
16 agreement and indicated that he didn't 16 As far as Freddie Kennedy is
17 want me to see it either so it wasn't 17 concerned, I mean, there is a whole lot
18 that they were charged. 18 I can say but most importantly is that
19 It was a -- there was an 19 he is a stand up guy and he will go
20 investigation. They were confronted 20 through the fires for his members.
21 with the evidence and they chose to 21 I think for him to -- for him and
22 resign and sign a confidentiality 22 the rest to be forced to resign or
23 agreement. 23 whatever the story is is, as the other
24 What is contained in that 24 members have said, is an atrocity and I
25 agreement, I don't know. I haven't seen 25 do not agree with it at all.
339 341
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 it. Okay? 2 As far as I am concerned these men
3 So I just want the record to be 3 always had my back no matter what and
4 clear. 4 there is not much more I can say about
5 You could treat it as you want to 5 that.
6 treat it or believe it as you want to 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
7 believe it but them are the facts. 7 MR. MOORE: Thank you.
8 Thank you. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Val Ruiz.
9 MR. SONGUI: Thank you. 9 VAL RUIZ, called as a witness, having been
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for 10 duly sworn, testified as follows:
11 coming, by the way. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, VaL.
12 Richard Moore. 12 MR. RUIZ: Good evening.
13 RACHID MOORE, called as a witness, having 13 THE CHAIRMAN: Are you a member of
14 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 14 157.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, 15 MR. RUIZ: Yes. I am a shop
16 Rachid. 16 steward.
17 Are you a member of 157. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
18 MR. MOORE: Yes, I am. 18 MR. RUIZ: 157 has been like a
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? 19 family.
20 MR. MOORE: No. 20 When it was at 257, whatever, the
21 THE CHAIRMAN: GET close the mic 21 guys were removed in a fashion that I
22 and give your testimony. 22 still don't understand it.
23 MR. MOORE: I am prett much a 23 You guys can get indicted and
24 newbie, young as far as the time line of 24 still be offcers.
25 being a union member. 25 You have guys trying to do the
86
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
342 344
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 right thing for the business and these 2 There is no reason for it to be
3 guys stand behind our local all the 3 dissolved. This is not about it being
4 time. 4 dissolved.
5 We go up to our local and I am not 5 When you take a big part of it out
6 saying that about 608 but you go to 6 you are breaking it up.
7 their local, you can't even talk to 7 You put people in there, people
8 nobody. 8 not being as comfortable as they are,
9 You walk in our local, it is like 9 guys don't want to go up there.
10 a family in the locaL. 10 Like it took -- the guy said they
11 Now I go up there, you can't even 11 took the Christmas part. Everybody
12 speak to the girls in the back anymore. 12 wants to know what is going on. No, we
13 You can't go here, you can't go -- these 13 can't have that right now. There is too
14 guys up here making rules making you 14 much animosity going on.
15 feel like you are in a concentration 15 Animosity against what? Against
16 camp. 16 the brotherhood? No.
17 When you used to go up there you 17 Whatever the accusations are, they
18 used to go up there any time of the day, 18 are. Why should the brotherhood get
19 the ladies that work for us that handle 19 hurt in any shape or manner? Why should
20 our business day-to-day. 20 we change the way we run it?
21 It is being run maybe because the 21 If Georgie is there, Billy is
22 way everyhing happened but there is too 22 there, everyhing should be run the way
23 much disorder up there. They took 23 it should be run.
24 everybody out at one time. 24 I am not saying the Christmas
25 You cut the whole head like if 25 part is a big thing. A lot of people
343 345
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 something was being accomplished by 2 are saying why did they take that small
3 that, you know. 3 thing.
4 I think it was done the wrong way 4 Even the retirees come there to
5 but you are the boss, you will figure it 5 see one another. That is the kind of
6 out. 6 local it is. It is a family-orientated
7 You know what I am saying. I am 7 locaL.
8 saying the guys always there, Georgie, 8 I have been there for a lot of
9 Billy, Danny, Lawrence, all of them, 9 years. It is a shame, and I really hope
10 they always been there when you need 10 that these hearings do do something
11 them. 11 because a lot of people say I am not
12 I call any time. If I can't reach 12 going to that shit, excuse my French,
13 one I try the other. 13 because nothing gets done. They already
14 If I reach one and he is not on he 14 got their decisions made.
15 will tell me, Val, call Freddie. They 15 I hope y'all don't have your
16 will call it up. 16 decisions made and I hope something can
17 Whatever the problem is it will 17 be done.
18 get taken care of. 18 We need the right people in the
19 That allegation that you can never 19 right spot like y'all say, when you are
20 reach a business agent or see a business 20 running for offcers or doing something
21 agent when you need it, I don't know 21 you need the right people to reach the
22 where it came from. 22 right people.
23 I never had that problem. We have 23 We need the right people in our
24 a good local and I understand why Forde 24 offce, that is all I have to say, for
25 or y'all don't want to dissolve it. 25 our people.
87
212-267-6868 516-608-2400
346 348
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 We had good leadership up there, 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your
3 man. I don't know where it is going 3 testimony, Keith.
4 from now because we don't know what they 4 James Corrigan. Have you
5 can do. What we had up there was good. 5 testified once?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, VaL. 6 MR. CORRIGAN: Yes.
7 We are going to take about a 7 THE CHAIRMAN: I will put you over
8 ten-minute break so that the committee 8 here.
9 can take a restroom break.
9 Mr. King, are you in the room?
10 We will be back in ten minutes. 10 Brother King, come on up.
11 (Recess) 11 AUSTIN KING, called as a witness, having
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Back on the record. 12 been duly sworn, testified as follows:
13 Keith Knaack. 13 THE CHAIRMAN: Have a seat,
14 KEITH KNAACK, called as a witness, having
14 Austin.
15 been duly sworn, testified as follows: 15 Are you a member of Local 157.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Have a seat, 16 MR. KING: Yes.
17 Brother. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer?
18 Brother Keith, are you a member of 18 MR. KING: No.
19 157. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Will you get real
20 MR. KNAACK: Yes, I am. 20 close to the mic so the folks in the
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? 21 back can hear you?
22 MR. KNAACK: No. 22 MR. KING: I am member of 257/157
23 My testimony here is that -- is 23 for 20 plus years and the local is a
24 that I have never felt better about the 24 prett good locaL.
25 leadership in this local and I wish I 25 Fred Kennedy, I sat and heard the
347 349
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 had -- could be as strong now in 2 majority of speakers. They mentioned
3 testifying for these guys as they have 3 him by name. He is a good business
4 been for me. 4 agent but it is so sad to learn that he
5 Personally, I have -- any time I 5 resigned. I guess, is it possible for
6 have ever gone to pay my dues these guys 6 him to come back? The men need him.
7 are always asking, are you working, are 7 157, I notice that there is a lot
8 you okay.
8 of strangers, the business agent, and
9 I was working out of a 9 sometimes you are in offices for a long
10 jurisdiction. I was in the 608 10 period of time. There is nobody here.
11 jurisdiction working on the Plaza Hotel 11 I think if there is a new group of
12 and every Friday morning I had to call 12 business agents in 157 I think I will
13 for a stamp shortage form because I 13 try to run.
14 wasn't getting paid right and 608 wasn't 14 As I said, Fred Kennedy is a good
15 helping me at all so I had to turn back 15 guy and it is so sad to see him leave.
16 to my local and Freddie Kennedy 16 157 I think is the best local in
17 personally had to come and give me my 17 the city. This is my local, local
18 shortage forms and straighten these out 18 skilled members.
19 for me. 19 Sometimes I personally go to the
20 These guys, I have never had more 20 hall and Fred Kennedy would come and ask
21 trust in a leadership than these guys. 21 me, how are you.
22 That is really all I have to say. 22 If there is any problem he would
23 I just wish I could be as strong 23 try to help you, but, as I said, it
24 as these guys have been for me and my 24 wouldn't be good if there are strangers
25 local. 25 in 157.
88
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
350
352
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 Thank you. 2 grievances, the out-of-work list. They
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. 3 are powerful positions.
4 Thank you for your testimony. 4 We deserve a right to be part of
5 Mike Bilello. 5 that process.
6 MICHAEL BILELLO, called as a witness, 6 Thank you.
7 having been duly sworn, testified as 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your
8 follows: 8 testimony.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, Mike. 9 Let me make a point so that you
10 MR. BILELLO: Good evening. 10 and everyone else understands too.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Member? 11 That the normal election process
12 MR. BILELLO: Member of 157. 12 under normal conditions you have
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer? 13 nominations in May, elections in June
14 MR. BILELLO: Not an offcer. 14 and installation in July.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead with your 15 If you in fact are under
16 testimony. 16 supervision and the offcers are
17 MR. BILELLO: I thought it was 17 removed, that is not necessarily the
18 important to testify on a point that 18 cycle because once the supervision --
19 Kenny Bluhm actually did a prett good 19 generally right before the supervision
20 job of explaining before.
20 is removed you begin a process of
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Who is that? 21 nominations and elections of offcers.
22 MR. BILELLO: Kenny Bluhm. 22 It may be to get back on a cycle,
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 23 instead of a -- do you run three year
24 MR. BILELLO: As you probably 24 terms here?
25 know, we have an election for district 25 Instead of a three year term, it
351
353
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 council offcers scheduled a year from 2 might be 29 months, it might be 31
3 now, December 2008, EST president and 3 months, it might be something different
4 vice president. 4 but it -- supervision don't always end
5 So in order to run for vice 5 on an election cycle.
6 president or president you have to be an 6 MR. BILELLO: I understand that
7 elected delegate from your local. 7 all too well as do many of the people in
8 So in order for this local to 8 this room.
9 participate in that capacity we would 9 We have been through this before.
10 have to have our elections prior to 10 We know the rules.
11 that. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: It is duly noted
12 The UBC Constitution calls for 12 that you would like to be out from under
13 nominations in May, elections in June. 13 supervision if in fact there is
14 I think that would be a good 14 supervision in time to get a
15 schedule to try to adhere to so that we 15 representation at the district counciL.
16 can participate in that election in that 16 MR. BILELLO: otherwise it is
17 capacity. 17 another three years before we get that
18 We may decide nût to run a 18 opportunity.
19 candidate for either one of those 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Duly noted.
20 positions but we should be afforded the 20 MR. BILELLO: Thank you.
21 opportunity to do that. 21 Israel Fernandez.
22 With these full service district 22 ISRAEL FERNANDEZ, called as a witness,
23 councils as you know they do all the 23 having been duly sworn, testified as
24 functions that are really vital to the 24 follows:
25 membership, collective bargaining, 25 MR. FERNANDEZ: How are you?
89
212-267-6868
516-608-2400
354 356
1 Hearing 1 Hearing
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Doing very well, 2 out of the local like that without your
3 thank you. 3 not really letting us know what is going
4 MR. FERNANDEZ: I was a laborer 4 on, I don't think that is right.
5 for 13 years before.
5 To see, and at this time too when
6 THE CHAIRMAN: You want to admit 6 we got the holidays going on. You
7 that in this hall? 7 understand?
8 MR. FERNANDEZ: I can admit that 8 So I am hopeful 157 will keep
9 because I am going to tell you there is 9 going on and keep going always.
10 a story behind it. 10 I always say 157 all the way to
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. 11 heaven. That was always my motto when I
12 MR. FERNANDEZ: I am going to 12 got with them.
13 admit that. I am proud of being 13 I went with them through various
14 whatever I was, doing my job welL. 14 protests and things like. Chanting that
15 I came back to New York from 15 then. I am still chanting that now.
16 Powell, Massachusett. I got introduced 16 That is what I got to say.
17 to Local 157. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much
18 I have been with these guys for 18 for your testimony.
19 eight years now and I never had no 19 MacDonald Barnett.
20 problem with them. 20 MACDONALD BARNET, called as a witness,
21 I always walked in the halL. It 21 having been duly sworn, testified as
22 was always a love thing and everyhing 22 follows:
23 else. 23 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening,
24 When times were bad they told me 24 MacDonald. How are you tonight?
25 what to do as far as myself to keep my 25 Are you a member of much the
1 Hearing 1
2 family busy and keep my family -- feed 2
355
local?
Hearing
357
3 my family and stuff like that and it 3

MR. BARNET: Yes.
4 came from the heart from them and it 4
5 always worked for me. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Offcer?
MR. BARNET: No.
6 I have been surviving with Local 6 I have been in the local for 22
8 had no problem. 8
7 157 for eight years now. I have never 7
9 Walking in the hall, when I ever 9
years. I was -- went away but I heard
what was going on. I don't understand
it because they always came to my job,
10 went in the hall early in the morning, 10 Georgie, Freddie, Lawrence, Danny, they
11 never found nobody there. You know what 11
always there.
12 I mean. It was always a business thing. 12
I could call Freddie, Georgie any
13 Always Kennedy, Kennedy knows me, right? 13
time of the night, dinner or anytime,
14 Always call Kennedy. I need help. I am 14 tell them I have a problem on the job,
15 messed up. I need some guidance or 15 they was there.
16 something. He is there for me. 16 So I am hearing, they phoned,
17 You understand? 17 wasn't getting in touch with them. I
18 George, everybody here. Everybody 18 was always getting in touch with them.
19 up there as far as the local, they 19 They always asked about my family.
20 always treat me like family, you 20
21 understand. 21
22 I grew up here without actually my 22
How is they doing?
It is like they are just
destroying the whole union by removing
23 father. I grew up without my father. 23 them.
24 This is my family. You understand? 24 I mean there wasn't no warning,
25 To see how they get just ripped 25 there wasn't no nothing. I just don't
90
212-267-6868
516-608-2400

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Transféré par

Informations du document

Description originale:

Copyright

Formats disponibles

Partager ce document

Partager ou intégrer le document

Options de partage

Avez-vous trouvé ce document utile ?

Ce contenu est-il inapproprié ?

Droits d'auteur :

Formats disponibles

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Transféré par

Droits d'auteur :

Formats disponibles

238 240

3 my family and stuff like that and it 3

Vous aimerez peut-être aussi