Lama Surya Das: What is the essence of Buddha Dharma in your view?

His Holiness: If you ask what I expect for my students the simple answer is that I want them to !e happy" #enuinely unconditionally happy" $hat means of course spiritually they have to experience inner happiness re%ardless of material %ains achievement or personal circumstances and situation" Inner reali&ation is unconditional happiness" We are always seekin% somethin% tryin% to see to know 'ust like we try to %et ordinary thin%s and accumulate ideas lookin% outwardly for what is not really to !e found there" But not seein% is true seein%( not knowin% is true knowin%" It %oes deep" It is !eyond concepts and mere intellectual understandin%" $he first level of knowin% comes in the form of teachin% teachin% from the linea%e tree from the masters as it)s !een passed down from the Buddha until now" $hen you have to %et further into it learnin% practicin% experiencin% and reali&in% it" $hen that)s it* $hat)s the essence the essence of dharma essence of life reali&ation essence of Dharmakaya essence of love essence of !ein%" $hat is the Buddha)s wisdom+ intention for us" His Holiness the ,-th #yalwan% Drukpa and Lama Surya Das SD: I have a wonderful feelin% of va'ra feast or pure perception while talkin% to you a!out these thin%s" .ou appreciate everythin% 'ust as it is without shyin% away or hesitation" How is it that you en'oy everythin% as the free dance of the Dharmakaya? HH: /resh and open( easy" 0o pro!lem" 0o attachment" Bi%%er mind the %reat view that should not !e drawn down into a small corner" It should !e the other way around with everythin% openin% up to you throu%h Dharma practice and reali&ation" 1ay!e to start with you are very narrow+minded !ut as you !e%in to know a!out the meanin% of spirituality and then you know more deeply 1ahamudra or D&o%chen or 1adhyamika then you slowly have not only the !roader view !ut also the experience and actual feelin%" $hen you will like everythin%* .ou will feel comforta!le wherever you are and you will feel comforta!le towards almost everythin% that is not harmful to any!ody" 2f course some thin%s are unfortunately 3uite painful 3uite harmful( those are not recommenda!le" But you are not to hate them either( hatred is not accepted" So you have to appreciate it as it is in reality" $his is the reason why all the %reat %urus always have a very open mind to 4LL phenomena" $hey may not necessarily like somethin% !ut they are really always ri%ht there with it" 4cceptance is there at some level" 1asters don)t hide in a monastery or a corner of D&o%chen or 1ahamudra shuttin% out the chaos noise and pain and closin% their eyes to the world" Lama Surya Das and H"H" the ,-th #yalwan% Drukpa on the %rounds of D&o%chen 2sel Lin% SD: $here are many kinds of meditation o!viously not to mention other contemplative practices" What do you think is most critical to teach? HH: 5lease don)t !e a dum! meditator a thou%ht+wiper tryin% not to think fallin% into the extreme of tryin% not to do anythin% in life" $his is 3uietism not the wisdom of the 1iddle Way" $his is much too simple minded" It is important to learn how to meditate not to 'ust do it without %uidance or direction" $hat would !e like throwin% stones in the dark and hopin% to hit a tar%et" Learnin% and practice have to %o hand in hand or you)ll find it as difficult as tryin% to clim! a mountain either without le%s and hands 6practice7 or without head and eyes 6learnin% %uidance7( for we actually need !oth on the spiritual 'ourney" I mainly hope to educate people who really want to !e authentic Bodhisattvas and 8a'rayana practitioners and Buddhist practitioners seekin% wisdom and enli%htenment"

$oo many Buddhist practitioners unfortunately are !ecomin% corrupted today" I discoura%e my students followers and friends from !ecomin% sectarian do%matic spiritual materialists or involved in Dharma politics" 4ctually it is !ecomin% a drama not Dharma not too different from our worldly society with politics competition criticism power stru%%les e%otism pride and %reed" $his kind of corruption which is in our own minds must !e dealt with" $his is what we $i!etans call 9turnin% the %od into a demon 9 turnin% sacred spirituality into a worldly commodity or e%o)s domain" It is 3uite important to maintain purity of heart and a positive outlook keep your vows and commitments at whatever level you may have undertaken them !e in harmony with all cultivate altruism and lovin% kindness and continue to practice dili%ently every day every hour one way or another" :eco%ni&e whatever comes as !lessin%s as teachin%s as the %uru)s %ifts or %race and all will !e well" It is not easy to understand these sorts of thin%s with the intellect !ut a little trust and devotion %o a lon% way to helpin% us find what we are lookin% for here" SD: ;an you speak to us a!out %uru yo%a and the importance of findin% a teacher? HH: I)ll take this opportunity to talk a little a!out the %uru how to approach the %uru and who is the real %uru" It is not 'ust how a teacher talks and what he or she says" We need to know how to look at the %uru)s mind: that is the reali&ation of the mind rather than 'ust of the !ody and speech" $he most important 3ualities are the understandin% of perfect selfless wisdom and unconditional impartial compassion" $hese two are very much dependent on each other" Whoever helps us to develop such enli%htened 3ualities is like a %uru or precious teacher to us" I don)t think we need to !e in a hurry to decide who is our root %uru and who is not who is 3ualified and authentic or not" <ust check and see if the teacher !efore you is wise kind unselfish %enerous and helpful and then follow the instructions as %iven" .ou)ll %et the !lessin%s and the !enefits eventually" .ou don)t need to %o around to a num!er of different teachers and talk in a comparative way a!out all the different teachers and teachin%s" 5eople in the West seem to do that a lot and it often %ives rise to dou!t and confusion" $he Dharma teachin%s are 3uite simple and it is important to learn a little and to put that into practice" Some learnin% can help our practice and is not an unnecessary distraction( however too much intellectuali&ation can %et in the way" It is very important to make enli%htenment and the !enefit of all !ein%s your %oal !ut not to !e a fanatic a!out it or a!out your particular %uru and tradition either" =ventually you will have to %o !eyond the outer %uru and also !eyond any notion of enli%htenment or you)ll remain cau%ht in a corner a partial view of reality which is not freedom at all" SD: .our Holiness I)ve come to think of teachin% and transmission as related !ut not the same" $he linea%e transmits the !lessin% somethin% invisi!le( and the teachin% is more like the visi!le" So how important is it for everyone to have a personal teacher? 1any Westerners feel like they cannot find an authentic 3ualified personal teacher and that the Buddha the Dharma and the meditation practice is the teacher" 1any in the West think that instead of real %urus we have information and learnin%" What is your feelin% a!out this? HH: 1any years a%o in India $i!et <apan >orea and $hailand many people %ot enli%htened with the support and encoura%ement of wise and experienced teachers" 0ot many people are experiencin% this kind of spiritual enli%htenment in the West in modern life and times" Why not? Because they are dependin% too much on the intellect( they)re not dependin% on the linea%e !lessin%s and experience" .ou can learn you can know !ut not necessarily !e accomplished" .ou can !e very !i% in your head !ut that doesn)t mean anythin% except your head will !e very heavy" 4nd the teachin%s won)t %o to the heart !ecause there)s no linea%e no transmission of the authentic mind+to+mind non+conceptual !lessin%s from wisdom heart to your heart" SD: 1any lamas have talked a!out linea%e and Westerners have a hard time understandin% this" We think we have our own 9linea%es"9 /or example we don)t 'ust read a !ook we look to see who wrote the !ook

and if the author holds a 5h"D" has worked with a well+re%arded scholar or has specific 3ualifications" $his is the Western way of thinkin% of linea%e for passin% down information" What is it a!out authentic linea%e that is passed on or transmitted? HH: 4 !lessin%" $he !lessin% is somethin% very mysterious actually" It is not only mysterious it has a lot of su!stance" $here are also years and decades centuries of experience here amidst the !lessin%s and teachin%" $here)s an un!elieva!le sense of transformation of your mental state li!eratin% your mind and openin% your heart" How can I express it !ecause it)s like tastin% honey? It)s sweet" But sweet means what? It)s inexpressi!le" I feel very happy deli%hted delicious !ut I can)t express it?until you taste it and then we can share somethin% of the experience to%ether" $his is one aspect of the !lessin% of course which a !ook cannot %ive you" But this is not the only important aspect" What I care a!out is that the !lessin% is truly transformin%" .our life transforms into the divine state of mind" =ven thou%h you live the same way everythin% is different?concepts precepts everythin% is different" .esterday may!e you were unhappy( perhaps you were stealin% cheatin% drinkin% or simply dissatisfied or depressed" But last ni%ht perhaps !y %ood karma you have seen the appropriate %uru and have !een inspired to chan%e and today you have chan%ed" $his is not necessarily overni%ht it may take years or decades !ut time doesn)t matter" It chan%es everythin% the whole world your whole attitude" .our whole life can !e transformed" /rom my point of view if there is no %uru there is no way to %et enli%htenment" I)m one hundred percent sure" .ou have to have a personal transmission from a 3ualified %enuine %uru one who has the linea%e and is 3ualified to %ive this" If you don)t have the linea%e your practice and path is uncooked unfinished" If you don)t have a human master who %ave you the linea%e it cannot !e received from a !ook" $he Drukpa linea%e has speciali&ed in meditation and inner yo%a and is not very much into academic thin%s" $hey found that too much academic knowled%e distur!s the practice of the truth" SD: Holiness is this idea somethin% we can understand even if we haven)t experienced it? 1any have experienced somethin% like this in the presence of a master" 4s you were descri!in% when you are around His Holiness the Dalai Lama you feel like it)s the real 5otala here is Dewachen the paradisical Buddha+ field everythin% is perfect and !lissful complete at peace and at rest" Some have had this feelin% in the presence of a %enuine master and then after the master and the student part it fades" So how does the student fully receive the !lessin%? How can the !lessin% !e cultivated? HH: $hat 3uestion will !e very easily answered" $he master)s role is %ivin% teachin%" $he student)s role is not only 'ust to experience it and say 94hhh %reat I am very happy* $hat was very nice"9 $hat)s not all that we want" $he %ood feelin% is a !lessin% !ut that has to !e utili&ed practiced inte%rated into oneself" .ou have to practice continuously" /or that to happen in that respect the %uru has to %ive instruction that)s the real thin% the linea%e" $his is like a doctor who has an understandin% of the patient and knows what the patient needs" $he patient knows the doctor is %ood( so now is the time to take the treatment and apply the remedy in the ri%ht se3uence so the intended results can !e achieved" SD: $hen the patient must %o home and keep takin% the medicine" HH: >eep takin% the medicine and not 'ust say 9I have the medicine9 or 9I had a %ood chat with the doctor and I feel very %ood a!out him"9 If you don)t take the medicine and it lies on your ta!le and is then for%otten it doesn)t help" So the patient and doctor the student and teacher !oth have to respond and interact with each other interact and work to%ether" $hat)s the linea%e transmission" $his is the result of ripenin% karma not mere accident" .ou have to seek and pursue that" SD: 2ften you talk a!out appreciation( what does it really mean to appreciate everythin%? HH: 0o matter whether you are Buddhist or not a spiritual practitioner or not appreciation is very important" 4ppreciation is a %reat thin%( you really need to have it" $his is what I think from the heart" 4ppreciate appreciate appreciate" $here is no real reason why you should not !e happy unless may!e there)s too much complainin% and not enou%h appreciation" I don)t use the word %ratitude here !ecause for %ratitude it seems most often we think we need some!ody else there" In our Buddhist attitude we don)t

have any!ody there to thank as if a!ove us or responsi!le" We shouldn)t !e stuck with that dualistic outlook" Whatever I have achieved or %ood thin%s I have received I offer to my %uru" $his is my routine anyway my ritual" I %ive it to my %uru from my depth of heart" 4nd this is not only %ivin% this is really %ivin% with appreciation for what he has !een %ivin% me" So this is my personal experience or the way I practice" SD: What can you say to us a!out attachment? $he Western mind always says 9$ell us how"9 What is the practical advice? HH: /rom the time you take refu%e you are not supposed to !e attached" $hat)s the reason the :efu%e has to !e %iven !y a very skillful master" 0ot 'ust sayin% Buddha is %reat you)ve taken refu%e so you will !e taken care of !y the Buddha" $his is important !ecause if attachment %oes up all the way to enli%htenment then you can)t %et the connection with the true nature" 4ctually attachment pushes you away from the true nature" =ven thou%h you practice %enuinely dili%ently it always keeps you away !ecause you have attachment?in $i!etan shenpa" 2kay Surya you)re a very %ood friend of mine" Do I have an attachment to you? 2f course I do" =ven Sakyamuni liked his close disciples and said he was sad when his foremost disciples Sariputra and 1aud%alyana died" 2f course it)s natural" $hat)s not exactly the issue we are talkin% a!out" We are talkin% a!out whether or not Sakyamuni !elieved they were really existin% and were 9his"9 $hese are the points to think a!out not whether you have attachment or not" What is the 1iddle Way? How much is too much and what are the effects of those attachments cravin%s and clin%in%s? SD: Is that how it is for you? .ou can feel attachment without chakpa d&inpa shenpa 6dualistic reactivity7 without attachment? HH: 2h yes" 2ne hundred per cent" I do have a stron% attachment I do?such as to my !eloved parents who still care very much for me and help me too?!ut it is empty !liss attachment not !urdensome heavy stuckness" =verythin% is !lissfully empty 'ust in arisin% at all" $hat)s how I see it" $hat)s how it is tau%ht"

SD: .our Holiness please speak a!out the essence of retreat and any closin% thou%hts" HH: $he essence of retreat is to develop yourself and your way of life really develop your happiness" Develop and improve your understandin% so that when you come out you)re very happy" $hat happiness can !e shared with may!e not all sentient !ein%s !ut a %ood num!er" 1any people you)ve met and who you will meet will !e deli%hted to see you and will !e !enefited and even !lessed !y your happiness"

Drolma Lha+kan% 6$ara $emple7 at D&o%chen 2sel Lin% .ou are not %ainin% anythin% externally( you are losin% somethin%" We have too much already too much e%o too many concepts and material thin%s so may!e you lose somethin%" $hat could !e of !enefit?that kind of !enefit is more than enou%h" $he essence of retreat is that you can !e satisfied and fulfilled 'ust !y !ein% yourself alone thinkin% a!out the true nature of thin%s universal reality %ainin% wisdom throu%h insi%ht into that" We don)t need to overcomplicate thin%s with all sorts of namtoks wanderin% discursive thou%hts superstitions dou!ts and over+thinkin% everythin%" Be stron% and strai%htforward within have stron% intention and develop firm faith devotion and inner conviction" What you decide to do you can do( 'ust keep practicin% and learnin%" $he most important thin% in life is to !e happy and not to harm others and moreover if you can %enuinely help others that is excellent"