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bossgalaga Dr_Merkwurdigliebe stinkylibrary anonymous123421 sje46 Amarkov Mason11987 LondonPilot kouhoutek Al-Fayyad ...and 13 more 1696 ExplainedWhy does China defend North Korea so often at the international level? submitted 10 hours ago by The_Toe82 751 comments share top 200 commentsshow 500 sorted by: best [ ]notkenneth 1473 points 9 hours ago* North Korea is already a huge humanitarian crisis, but collapse of the regim e means that a huge portion of that becomes China's problem more or less immedia tely. Millions of North Koreans would flee into Manchuria, which already has a l arge population of ethnically Korean citizens. Actually keeping these people ali ve after living their entire lives in the DPRK would be enormously expensive and a logistical nightmare. China likes having North Korea as a buffer state. Regardless of who would ta ke over the area that's currently North Korea in the event of a collapse, China likely winds up with a US-allied country on its border, if South Korea would reu nited with the North (which would cost South Korea trillions and take a very, ve ry long time; the Reunification of Germany was a cakewalk compared to the situat ion in the Korean Peninsula). It would rather that didn't happen. They know how bad things are in the DPRK, but by nominally supporting the Kim re gime, everything is contained, from China's perspective. The status quo is the l east bad option, in China's view. permalink [ ]San-A 362 points 8 hours ago This makes a lot of sense, but why isn't China putting more effort to make NK a "moderate" communist state, similar to what China is now? Wouldn't it be a bette r solution for both countries? permalink parent [ ]pos_hodg 553 points 8 hours ago the last guy to attempt to push things toward a moderate communist state with Ch ina's help was executed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jang_Sung-taek

permalink parent [ ]Idefygravity 245 points 7 hours ago well, they tried? permalink parent [ ]Theory5 86 points 6 hours ago Yea, but probably not again. Or at least not with his linage. permalink parent [ ]TheCSKlepto 159 points 6 hours ago I'd be very impressed if he tried again, being dead and all permalink parent [ ]Ryanjadams 18 points 4 hours ago Ahhh the None Upper strikes again^ permalink parent [ ]Second_Foundationeer 12 points 3 hours ago He didn't die. He class-changed to Lich. permalink parent [ ]TheCSKlepto 5 points 2 hours ago Yeah, but he's only lvl 1. Lot's of grinding to challenge the final boss permalink parent load more comments (5 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [ ]572484286 43 points 3 hours ago Honestly that's not the whole story. The clash between Kim Jong Un and Jang Song -thaek was far more simple: The clash was over who would profit from North Korea s most lucrative exports: coal, clams and crabs. North Korean military forces were deployed to retake con trol of one of the sources of those exports, the rich crab and clam fishing grou

nds that Jang Song-thaek, the uncle of the country s untested, 30-year-old leader, had seized from the military. In the battle for control of the fishing grounds, the emaciated, poorly trained North Korean forces were beaten very badly by Uncl e Jang s loyalists, according to one official. The rout of his forces appears to ha ve been the final straw for Mr. Kim, who saw his 67-year-old uncle as a threat t o his authority over the military and, just as important, to his own family s dwin dling sources of revenue. TLDR; The uncle was executed because he fought the military over control over lu crative fisheries. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/world/asia/north-korea-purge.html?_r=0 Yes, his controversial ties to China didn't help, but attributing that as the ma in reason was honestly just speculation. Reddit gave the topic frontpage treatme nt but never followed up on the real reason afterward, since /r/worldnews tends to suck like that. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]altrsaber 111 points 7 hours ago* Along with his entire extended family... Edit: Family by blood. permalink parent [ ]mifield 37 points 6 hours ago You do know his extended family includes the current Marshall Kim Jong-un himsel f, right? He was his uncle in-law, after all. Most of his family aren't dead at all. permalink parent [ ]Jonny_Watts 35 points 4 hours ago Wait, is he the Uncle they kept talking about a couple months ago?? permalink parent [ ]mifield 25 points 4 hours ago Yes. permalink parent [ ]altrsaber 57 points 6 hours ago* Un is related only by marriage, I meant all of his family members by blood. http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/northkorea/2014/01/26/4/0401000000AEN20140126000

800315F.html http://english.sina.com/world/2014/0125/666777.html permalink parent load more comments (21 replies) [+]mifield comment score below threshold (20 children) load more comments (1 reply) [ ]Corn_Wholesaler 106 points 6 hours ago "Jang Sung-taek (pronounced [t?a? s?? t??k];" Well, that's helpful. permalink parent [ ]make_love_to_potato 50 points 5 hours ago I don't see what's confusing.....you just say it as t?a? s?? t??k. permalink parent load more comments (3 replies) [ ]Theonesed 29 points 5 hours ago* IPA, it's pretty useful for pronounciation, especially in foreign languages. It would be something like: tshung sung song teck edit: my vowels are funny. permalink parent [ ]Shingen_LeBlanc 41 points 3 hours ago Interesting. I've heard it can be conducive to getting yourself to speak a langu age more confidently, but in my experience, drinking only made my pronunciation worse. permalink parent [ ]Fascist_Blueberry 5 points 53 minutes ago You just hadn't drank enough yet, once you get to a certain point of blackout yo u become a language master. At least I think ... I can't remember permalink parent

load more comments (9 replies) load more comments (6 replies) [ ]apopheniac1989 3 points 2 hours ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_phonetic_alphabet permalink parent [ ]20000 2 points 1 hour ago Theonesed almost got it. It's basically "chang song teck". permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [ ]dcmueller12 19 points 6 hours ago Dang, he became an unperson. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jang_Sung-taek permalink parent [ ]TheToppestLel 8 points 5 hours ago Good ol' 1984 permalink parent [ ]-dream- 4 points 2 hours ago Who? permalink parent [ ]AnEnomaly 2 points 5 hours ago Why didn't China step in when this happened? permalink parent [ ]pos_hodg 2 points 4 hours ago I don't know. Probably for the reasons the comment this conversation started wit h lay out. Not worth risking turning a buffer into an enemy permalink parent load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (8 replies) [ ]Qlanth 97 points 5 hours ago China is not a "moderate communist state." In many ways China adheres more towar d capitalist ideals than the United States or many European countries. Communist China died out a long time ago. permalink parent [ ]Crescent_Freshest 36 points 5 hours ago I was going to reply with this. There's plenty of misconception about china, lik e how much debt we owe them. It's not as much as people make it out to be. permalink parent [ ]dalilama711 48 points 5 hours ago* Yup. Right now Social Security trust funds and the US Federal Reserve are the la rgest holders of US debt, and by a large margin. Social Security trust funds: 16% US Federal Reserve: 12% China: 8% Japan: 7% Mutual Funds: 6% Source permalink parent [ ]kohrtoons 24 points 4 hours ago I remember when people were freaked out that the Japanese owned lots of American debt in the 90's and they were our friend. The whole debt thing is totally blow n way way out of proportion (as your numbers prove) permalink parent load more comments (4 replies) [ ]sheepsleepdeep 3 points 5 hours ago* Like 3% of our debt. We owe most of our debt to ourselves via social security th at has been used as a slush fund for about three decades. Edit: 7.8% is the last figure. Which is more than the share owed by U.S. househo lds, $1.2trillion vs $950billion permalink parent

[ ]laurieisastar 4 points 5 hours ago Which is why it's so infuriating when politicians talk about not being able to a fford payments anymore. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (5 replies) load more comments (7 replies) [ ]doublesmokedbacon 69 points 5 hours ago China is not a communist country. They gave that up 35 years ago and turned to c apitalism. It's now easier for a citizen to start their own business in China th an it is in the USA. The ruling party still controls large companies in certain key areas like banking and energy but even they operate (with advantages of cour se) in the capitalist free market. I'm always amazed that people think that Chin a could have an economy as successful as it's been while being communist. permalink parent [ ]ponte_vecchio 15 points 4 hours ago I'm not surprised people think its communist, is it not ruled by a single party, the Communist Party? permalink parent [ ]woahgeez 15 points 3 hours ago Its just a name. permalink parent [ ]KingPython 3 points 2 hours ago Authoritarian? Dictatorship? Esplain to me Lucy!! permalink parent [ ]DontWorryItsEasy 2 points 2 hours ago I think the president of the US is of the Democratic party, yet the us has been, and is a Democratic Republic permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)

load more comments (1 reply) [ ]kohrtoons 24 points 4 hours ago China is run by a single party system. The single party is the communist party a nd is widely considered a communist state. Capitalism isn't a type of government its an economic policy, which the Chinese have deftly proven can run in tandem with a Communist state. Communists are left leaning and Fascists are right leani ng (ie the Nazi Party). Democracy is the ability for Left and Right to coexist i n the same state and in more moderate and extreme forms. permalink parent [ ]dressiertugboat 11 points 2 hours ago You are correct, capitalism is, above all, a mode of production. It is not a pol itical ideology. permalink parent [ ]SalineSaltines 7 points 1 hour ago communism is also an economic policy rather than a type of government. permalink parent [ ]Shitty_Foto_Shop 6 points 2 hours ago Even though you have down votes, you are right. Reddit just has a biased state o f thinking so they down vote anything that they don't agree with. It's okay to b e a minority here. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (12 replies) [ ]Theory5 34 points 6 hours ago Let's put it this way, the DPRK is highly unstable, but it is beneficial for a v ery small group of people, who live better than the 99.99%. And when I say live better I mean a probable wealth gap more severe than that between the middle cla ss and upper class in the USA. But lets emphasis UNSTABLE. Their leaders are the product of a society that wors hips them completely and utterly, or at least that's what their government would force you to believe. If you deviate from this, you are killed. But not just th at, your extended family is sent to a labor camp. And not just the current membe rs. If a North Korean offends the regime, them (or, usually not even that), thei r (extended) family, and 2 other generations of their family is sent to a prison camp. Obedience is demanded at the highest levels, and enforced almost complete ly (there are many cases of unrest, but they are suppressed utterly by the regim

e, and nothing as unruly as other countries). It is a sick but fascinating culture. One that has been told its the best in the world since birth. Attempting to change them (in their minds) would be like att empting to challenge the word of God directly. permalink parent [ ]Grumpi83 32 points 5 hours ago "And when I say live better I mean a probable wealth gap more severe than that b etween the middle class and upper class in the USA." Understatement of the centu ry, the gap is more like a homeless person in the US and Donald Trump.Otherwise I agree with your post 100%. permalink parent load more comments (5 replies) [ ]Pearberr 24 points 5 hours ago I think I can speak for all Americans... I'd rather be eating while the elites fly private jets than be starving while th e elites drive Fords, even if our "Wealth Gap" is technically wider. permalink parent [ ]gamelizard 12 points 4 hours ago our wealth gap is not wider. the kim family lives like the us upperclass. the lo wer class of NK lives like the farmers in the depression. as in the people livin g in 2014 have lives that the 1930s would consider poor. permalink parent [ ]Cats_of_War 4 points 2 hours ago Farmers in the depression had it better than the vast majority of NKians. permalink parent load more comments (3 replies) [ ]SandyBaller 6 points 6 hours ago Any sources on your statements or is this all conjecture? permalink parent load more comments (3 replies) [ ]NYKevin 37 points 8 hours ago

Because NK is being a "spoiled child"; it refuses to grow up and act like a norm al nation-state. permalink parent [ ]puaSenator 69 points 7 hours ago* There is a great lecture out there that is pretty recent that covers this. Basic ally, NK has it's back against the wall, and by becoming more moderate would sta rt the impending collapse of the current elite and regime. EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g98pZSKQPtA That's the first part which is more about NK social aspects. The second part dea ls with the military and more directly the international dynamics. permalink parent [ ]OnePointSeven 11 points 7 hours ago* Would love a link if you can find it! EDIT: Thanks! permalink parent [ ]puaSenator 6 points 6 hours ago added in the edit permalink parent [ ]San-A 4 points 7 hours ago Same here! permalink parent [ ]puaSenator 4 points 6 hours ago added to the edit permalink parent [ ]bricardo 9 points 5 hours ago But becoming more moderate would eventually put fire under the people to do away with those who currently govern them. My country of Portugal was a dictatorship until 1974. Not anywhere near the insanity of NK, but even then people didn't s peak on certain things out of fear. Fear is the great wall that keeps dictators in power; take that down, and they'll fall. permalink parent

[ ]puaSenator 6 points 5 hours ago Yeah, that's their most significant issue at the moment. The regime simply can't last more than 20 years. At the moment they NEED to open up their borders more to increase their economic activity. However, that will just lead to even more b lack market trading (currently a serious issue. About 3/4 of all defectors leave after seeing western/SK movies and realize life is much better outside). Also t he increase in technology isn't helping either. So they MUST become more moderate to survive, but they will have to be eased int o it... VERY slowly. permalink parent load more comments (4 replies) [ ]thegrassygnome 3 points 4 hours ago The section of his lecture about only being able to picture caricatures of NK ci tizens based on media sensationalism was 100% accurate for me. That first video really opened my eyes to my own ignorance on any NK issues. I'm about to start the second part of his lecture. Thank you for sharing. permalink parent [ ]kazzthemiro 2 points 7 hours ago Could you add a link? I'd like to hear this lecture. permalink parent [ ]puaSenator 4 points 6 hours ago added permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]bear_pond 2 points 3 hours ago This looks like an intriguing and extremely informative series of videos. Thank you so much for the link! permalink parent load more comments (17 replies) [ ]logicop 21 points 7 hours ago The history, psychology and cultural complexity of the dictatorship and its acti ons to keep the ruling class in power is more than simply "acting like a spoiled child' - the ruling class has every incentive to fuck over its citizens through

whatever means, brainwashing, torture, propaganda etc. permalink parent [ ]natty_vt 36 points 6 hours ago "The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the g ood of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power me ans you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Commun ists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to r ecognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that the y had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are n ot like that. We know what no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinq uishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictato rship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to e stablish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me." --George Orwell, 1984 I'm pretty sure Kim Jong likes power for power's sake. That's why he doesn't let China or anybody else push him around and that's why he doesn't give a fuck abo ut his people. permalink parent [ ]Hal__Incandenza 21 points 6 hours ago Un and the whole elite have everything riding on the continued existence of NK. If the regime collapses, they are all dead, and they know that. The moment NK st arts making concessions, the end of the regime becomes inevitable. That's why Un tries to look like he doesn't take any shit -- he has to compensate for the inc redible weakness of the country. permalink parent [ ]Eyclonus 10 points 6 hours ago Just like his father who also did not take a shit. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [ ]Madlydevoid 4 points 6 hours ago Well on top of that, if he lets him self be push around a little, he instantly b ecomes that countries bitch. It's obvious this regime is a selfish one, at least Stalin rapidly industrialized Russia and how right he was when he said it was n ecessary to defend the land. I mean you really can't compare the two, they have completely different histories, and Russia developed a need for a strong central gov. because the vast expanse of the territory. Hitler also had his reasons som

e of which can be seen here. The North Korean regime though is harmful to the so ciety and from what I've seen has no benefits What so ever. Just a FYI what I sa id does not mean I support hurler or Stalin, bot were terrible men, the worst of history, but they had their reasons even if they did them by terrible means, al l I'm saying is n.k is a lot more selfish feel free to argue, I'm always up for being proven wrong as long as it makes me a little less ignorant. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) [ ]alflup 17 points 6 hours ago China wants them to be a moderate Communist state, so that NK continues to exist . In it's current form it should collapse within the next 50 years. Dictator gen eration 1's usually last until death, their sons have about a 25% success rate. Kim is Generation 3 so his success rate is about 1%. Yes I'm pulling numbers out of my ass reddit. permalink parent [ ]theghosttrade 3 points 3 hours ago Hereditary monarchy seemed to work out ok for some people. permalink parent [ ]bahhumbugger 7 points 6 hours ago It is, North Korea is actually very liberalized compared to 20 years ago. Think about that, you know of the mild version of the Kim cult. Mindfuck eh? permalink parent load more comments (12 replies) [ ]fco83 32 points 6 hours ago Why does a buffer state matter in an era where force can be projected across the world to anywhere in a matter of minutes\hours? permalink parent [ ]Barangtastic 26 points 6 hours ago Land borders are still hugely important - look at all the kissing of previously vilified dictators' arses (eg. Karimov) the Coalition forces did with the Stans around Afghanistan when they needed a logistical land route into and out of the country. Much easier to roll tanks and the like overland from a friendly country than it is to airlift everything you need into a combat zone.

permalink parent [ ]Eyclonus 8 points 6 hours ago Much cheaper too, a complete airlift deployment would probably eat too much of t heir budget to justify it permalink parent [ ]cantRYAN 55 points 6 hours ago Good question, China tends to strategize militarily different than the US. We pl ay Chess, and they play checkers. China is bordered by 14 some countries, and th ey have multiple border disputes. They want to protect the Bohai sea as well, wh ich NK doesn't threaten much. Should Korea be united, US could have Naval presen ce MUCH closer to mainland China. permalink parent [ ]whojintao 8 points 4 hours ago I love it when you talk dirty strategy, cantRYAN permalink parent [ ]memtiger 2 points 2 hours ago So we can invade China? I don't ever see that happening. That would be a war to end all wars (and mankind) permalink parent load more comments (4 replies) load more comments (4 replies) [ ]Pearberr 16 points 5 hours ago It's not even necessarily a military thing; nobody in China or the United States will ever allow things to escalate to the point of war. We like each other too much, even if we have our differences. The biggest fear is that a revolution in North Korea would incite a revolution i n China. While China has made massive progress, raising much of their population of the third world and into the middle class, there are still nearly 700-900 mi llion people stuck in poverty in China, and while more people join the middle cl ass every day, those lagging behind want to join it sooner rather than later. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]stormfeltz 4 points 6 hours ago

Because with a buffer state, then that "force" would have to be projected over a nother country, giving ample warning/ shootdown/ preparation-for-retaliation tim e. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]zanzibarstool 31 points 7 hours ago China likes having North Korea as a buffer state. Regardless of who would ta ke over the area that's currently North Korea in the event of a collapse, China likely winds up with a US-allied country on its border, if South Korea would reu nited with the North (which would cost South Korea trillions and take a very, ve ry long time; the Reunification of Germany was a cakewalk compared to the situat ion in the Korean Peninsula). It would rather that didn't happen. They know how bad things are in the DPRK, but by nominally supporting There was an article in the Guardian that says this attitude may be changing. Ch ina will be okay with a reunified state ruled by the south as long as American t roops don't advance past the DMZ. permalink parent [ ]dekrant 30 points 6 hours ago That'd be nice, if it could happen. But the US will probably never agree to leav ing the northern part of a unified Korea untouched. Even beyond the geopolitical reasons of the US desiring a strong presence that close to China, the ensuing c haos from the unification will mean that the US will be called upon to assist wi th humanitarian relief. China will probably take a hardline stance against that, knowing that once the US goes in, they're not leaving. permalink parent [ ]TwoDeuces 26 points 6 hours ago I don't know, honestly. I could see the US making a deal with China, agreeing to EXCACTLY those terms. We have provided humanitarian aide in recent conflicts (Y ugoslavia for instance) and withdrew once the region stabilized. No more DPKR might be worth it to the US. permalink parent [ ]dekrant 17 points 6 hours ago Possibly, but Yugoslavia wasn't in the way of any specific geopolitical goals. C ommunism was dead by 1995, and Yugoslavia was specifically part of the Non-Align ed Movement. DPRK is on the Pacific Rim, with the RoK and Japan close by. I have my doubts about the US agreeing to withdrawal under those circumstances. permalink parent [ ]TwoDeuces 3 points 5 hours ago

Agreed, the circumstances are definitely different. We shall see (sooner than la ter I'm thinking, with the way things are going...). My primary hope is that it ends with minimal bloodshed. permalink parent [ ]ggqq 4 points 5 hours ago Even if the US does agree to withdrawal, there would be no way to stop them from breaching that agreement. China's foreign policy does not act on good-faith. permalink parent [ ]dalilama711 3 points 5 hours ago True, but Yugoslavia did not require a Marshall Plan-like effort. NK most likely will, which means soldier boots on the ground. An agreement between US and Chin a for no permanent bases might work. As China and the US become bigger and bigge r trade partners, their willingness to work together on this might increase. Who knows, though. Chinese leadership is a black box. permalink parent [ ]Cats_of_War 2 points 2 hours ago I 100% think the US would abide by such a deal. There is no point to have troops stationed in North korea for strategic means that cant be stationed in South Ko rea. permalink parent load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (3 replies) [ ]Killybug 10 points 5 hours ago To further point, China effectively operates mines that extract magnesite, zinc, iron, tungsten ore, graphite, anthracite coal, gold, barite, apatite, and molyb denite. North Korea is especially rich in Magnesite. With high reserves and almo st unexploited due to the difficulty of foreign companies to operate there, Chin a eyes up that region as a potential for huge profits. permalink parent [ ]bski1776 23 points 7 hours ago China likes having North Korea as a buffer state I wish China/US would make a deal that China stops putting up with North Korea a nd works to a unified Korea on the condition that once that happens, the US pull

s its Korean forces back to Japan. This seems like the optimal solution, but it would mean that China would have to trust the US and the US would have to be willing to pull their forces back to J apan. I'm not sure whether I see either/both happening. permalink parent [ ]PotbellyPanda 31 points 6 hours ago This is only possible if Korea willing to become a neutral state like Switzerlan d. But it's not likely to be since the unified Korea is so much important in the strategic position. If the unified Korea lean toward Chinese, it basically mean s Chinese navy can directly compete in the pacific. That is why US also prefer a status quo. Theoractically the reunification of Korea is great, both US and Chi na make compromises to make our world peace. However there does have the possibi lity that "compromises" make the US-Chinese conflict more tensify. permalink parent [ ]NotNoisyInCondo 10 points 6 hours ago China still gets the shit end of the stick though. I mean seriously, Sol compare d to the hellhole that is NK? China's best (not morally, but economically) option is to keep them there as ser fs until they can be integrated into a normal society. You'd have more success r eintegrating a Somali pirate into the high life of Essex. permalink parent [ ]d4m 12 points 5 hours ago The sun is in Korea? Seoul. I know, totally not spelled how it sounds. permalink parent [ ]RochelleH 6 points 7 hours ago I'm assuming you're talking about the U.S. forces stationed on the South/North K orean borders? Or does the U.S. have more troops stationed in South Korea for so me other reason? permalink parent [ ]Orsenn 42 points 7 hours ago Brah, we're EVERYWHERE permalink parent [ ]Baracouda 11 points 5 hours ago

If you dial 911 crisis anywhere in the world, an american will be there within 2 0 minutes. They can get to you anywhere in the world faster than pizza hut deliv ers a pizza within a city. that's impressive permalink parent [ ]YZJay 8 points 5 hours ago 911-11-11 is/was (I'm not sure) the telephone hotline for Pizza Hut in the Phili ppines permalink parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [ ]ggqq 2 points 5 hours ago Japan wouldn't cut it - they'd have to cut back past the pacific IMO, or at leas t back to South East Asia. It's the opinion of most Chinese people that the US h as no business anywhere near China's or Asia's territory - and they're right to some extent. The US doesn't have a very good history of playing by the books - w hich is partially why they're so successful. permalink parent load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (15 replies) [ ]WhoringEconomist 8 points 7 hours ago Plus when they're bailing Korea out of famines and providing them with pretty mu ch their only source of gas its easy to spin it like you actually are helping th e Korean people permalink parent [ ]Lostie9496 7 points 4 hours ago Why would reuniting North Korea with the south be more expensive than when Germa ny reunited? permalink parent [ ]quantumquixote 8 points 4 hours ago There is an INSANE amount of security on the border. The border is 250 km long a nd 4 km wide, with extreme militarization on both sides. In addition, the infrastructure in North Korea is nearly non-existent outside of

the major cities. thousands of land mines would need to be removed, millions of people relocated, trillions of dollars of roads constructed, not even counting how expensive it would be to simply feed and house all the refugees; many helple ss without the government's programs. In addition, the cultural clash is huge. They have been officially separated for nearly seventy years. permalink parent [ ]Cats_of_War 7 points 2 hours ago East Germany was WAAAAY more developed and richer than North korea. It was the b est economy in the Warsaw Pact. North Korea is way behind 1980s East Germany, today. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]bongozap 6 points 5 hours ago The status quo is the least bad option, in China's view. I'm not an expert on China but I've read more than once that the Chinese politic al mindset tends toward and almost pathological obsession with stability. Even if things are wrong, they'd rather things be stable and worked gradually. permalink parent [ ]deep_your_throat 2 points 2 hours ago If i imagine i'm the chinese leader, after the great lead forward and cultural r evolution, well... permalink parent [ ]Ace-and-Bass 3 points 5 hours ago ...move them all into those massive uninhabited cities China's been building? permalink parent [ ]Tequila_Wolf 3 points 4 hours ago It should also be noted that due to the paralysis that's currently happening wit h the top party leadership in China, many of the country's biggest problems are currently being turned into cans that are then being kicked down the road. I mean hell, dealing with a failed North Korean state is nothing compared to the fucking nuclear shitstorm the looming real estate bubble is for the Chinese eco nomy. There's only so much their sovereign wealth fund can contain without serio us decisions that need to be made by an impotent Chinese leadership.

permalink parent [ ]mre5765 2 points 7 hours ago Thanks for a logical answer that has escaped me. permalink parent [ ]bmorehalfazn 2 points 6 hours ago This. Also, think about it. NK is suspected to have nukes, or at the very least, has the ability to obtain them. Not only is a refugee situation a problem, but you have to think about what happens when you corner a badger. North Korea, with no allies, their backs to the wall, and with nothing to lose, is bad news for b oth South Korea (whose capital, Seoul is about 20 miles from the DMZ) and China, who shares a really long border with NK. They're just as worried about a confli ct rising because China is constantly focusing on maintaining stability of their ~2 billion person population. An all-out conflict with NK (which is inevitable should they decide not to support them) would cause a LOT of chaos for them, wit h the influx of millions of refugees from NK, and the inevitable flight from the border of the millions upon millions of Chinese living in the SE region of Chin a - it would throw China's leadership into disarray while they figure out how to defuse the situation. IMHO, I think a "US-ally" on their border worries them less than the economic co llapse that would occur if SK/NK/China/US/Japan went to war. permalink parent [ ]TrashTongueTalker 2 points 2 hours ago This makes perfect sense. One of the better responses I've seen on this sub. permalink parent [ ]SirSnipes 2 points 2 hours ago Hey wait a minute...you're not Kenneth!! permalink parent [ ]xiefeilaga 3 points 4 hours ago Good analysis. I believe there is also a third point, which is just as important . China is trying to prevent the building of a consensus within international la w towards intervention in a country on the grounds of human rights violations, d espotism and other "anti-democratic" crimes. Much of this is out of self-interes t--they want to be free to treat their citizens however they want, mowing them d own in the square if deemed necessary. But they also want to be able to legally deal with other countries, regardless of how despotic they are. You can see this pattern in their actions on the UN Security Council. They are a lmost always against humanitarian intervention, whether it's in Sudan, Syria or Zimbabwe, all states they do business with. They made an exception for Libya, an

d to this day they bitterly complain that they were hoodwinked into supporting a Western occupation of that country. permalink parent load more comments (74 replies) [ ]emeryann 30 points 7 hours ago From what I've been able to learn about the situation, is seems that there are t wo big reasons. The first is that as everyone has already stated, China likes ha ving NK as a buffer state. Secondly, any humanitarian intervention into NK would create massive amounts of refugees, many of whom would spill into China and ove rwhelm city resources (think problems in Lebanon with Syrian refugees, or Jordan with Palestinian ones). It is in China's better interest to keep those refugees out and in NK. permalink [ ]bandit_six 9 points 6 hours ago The second point is spot on. The influx of refugees would create huge problems i n China. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [ ]lthemanwithnonamel 129 points 6 hours ago North Korea has one of the largest, if not the largest, deposits of rare earth e lements in the world. These minerals are not only used in televisions and mobile devices, but missiles and advanced defense systems as well. Some estimate that there is $6 Trillion worth in North Korea. With China already having a monopoly on rare earth elements, producing around 95 % of the current supply, and their trade relationship with the DPRK, this create s an economic boon for China. It also aids the DPRK, because they don't have the infrastructure to mine for REEs, as they are very costly to extract. China's monopoly of REE's is in fact considered a national security issue by the Worldwide Threat Assessment. Imagine if they begin to mine for them in the DPRK . I didn't even mention the amount of other minerals in North Korea. Sources: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2013/04/02/chinas-continui ng-monopoly-over-rare-earth-minerals http://www.mining.com/largest-known-rare-earth-deposit-discovered-in-north-korea -86139/ permalink [ ]fuckyouwhare 16 points 4 hours ago

Wrote my masters on this topic. You're spot on buddy. permalink parent [ ]CharliePeligro 5 points 4 hours ago In my experience rare earths are actually not that rare. There are a number of o ld deposits that were mothballed because they weren't as high grade and size as the Chinese deposits and couldn't compete on price, but if if truly came down to a strategic requirement it would not be hard to find sufficient quantities of t hese minerals, it would just be more expensive to extract them. The proof of the pudding is there has been a fair amount of investment in rare earth exploration over the past few years, (I am somewhat familiar with the exploration work done on pegmatitic deposits in sub-Saharan Africa) as well as plans to restart the o ld mothballed mines. permalink parent [ ]SpiderFnJerusalem 14 points 5 hours ago Wow, never heard of this. This is huge. permalink parent [ ]King_of_Avalon 17 points 4 hours ago Yeah China completely sewing up the rare earth market and imposing massive expor t tariffs unless you process and manufacture from rare earths from within the co untry is such a sticking point right now that the US has just gone to the WTO to make a case against China. This is also one of the primary reasons for outsourc ing of manufacturing jobs to China (don't get me wrong, the lower wages play a p art as well, but the rare earth component is perhaps even bigger). What's even more fucked is why countries like the US, with not insubstantial rar e earth deposits, can't/won't use them. permalink parent [ ]smartalien99 17 points 4 hours ago The US recently ramped up the rare earth mine in mountain pass, between Californ ia and Nevada. This is a big deposit of REE and mining has increased 100x in the past few years. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Pass_rare_earth_mine permalink parent [ ]King_of_Avalon 5 points 4 hours ago* It's my understanding that that's just about the only large-scale commercial rar e earth mining going on in the US today. Do you know what their radioactive bypr oduct disposal system is? I know for a fact I was watching a YouTube video of a nuclear conference a few days ago and they brought up Mountain Pass but I can't for the life of me find it. EDIT: Found it, it's the first few minutes of this video. Mountain Pass focusses

almost exclusively on Lanthanites because they have lower thorium content, mean ing that Monazite deposits in the US still go almost entirely untouched. permalink parent [ ]smartalien99 3 points 4 hours ago I believe they use large disposal ponds not to far from the dig site. It wasn't an area of focus when I got a tour there. permalink parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (2 replies) [ ]Cats_of_War 4 points 2 hours ago Other countries have rare earth minerals. They are expensive to mine, so cheap l abor is required, and is TERRIBLE for the environment so only China is willing t o mine them. permalink parent [ ]seaofcheese 3 points 1 hour ago Wow so House of cards season 2.......The whole china thing with the REE was base d on something that could happen. Neat permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (6 replies) [ ]SelfPlugDave 5 points 3 hours ago Wasn't this the plot of Black Ops 2? permalink parent [ ]furythree 4 points 1 hour ago Call of duty is just preparing our kids for ww3 permalink parent [ ]Supertycoon 3 points 2 hours ago I knew I'd heard of this somewhere... permalink parent

load more comments (8 replies) [ ]LastSatyr 13 points 4 hours ago* I have a good friend who is Chinese and he described the situation to me as such . North Korea is an international problem. It is a humanitarian crisis with nucl ear weapons. Although NK has irritated the Chinese more than usual recently, the y have historically been of value because they offer the Chinese additional leve rage in international negotiations, in return for support of the regime (the aid mostly covers: infrastructure, resource extraction, humanitarian aid and milita ry cooperation). If anyone (particularly the United States) wants to deal with t he North Koreans, they have to go through China to do it. The North Koreans are also willing to do things on behalf of the Chinese government, they could not do themselves. The only concrete action i can think of at the moment is antagonizi ng the United States, although there is surely more. China cannot openly antagon ize the United States, it would be a political and economic catastrophe. But, if the North Koreans do it, China is able to assert plausible deniability. While a t the same time, the U.S. is pressured to take action and the White House has to work with the Chinese in order to do it. The relationship has become slightly more tenuous recently because NK is losing some of its value for the Chinese. The Chinese economy is growing, they are beco ming a more significant international economic power. Their inherent leverage is increasing as a result of strengthening economic ties with the rest of the worl d. Simultaneously, the humanitarian crisis is effecting China's reputation. Howe ver, the military alliance runs deep. It is my belief that the Chinese will advo cate for reform if national destabilization becomes an issue. The Chinese have t oo much to lose. (note infrastructure, military and resource extraction). permalink [ ]ZannY 4 points 3 hours ago Thoughtful answer. I also always thought that with them being right on China's b order, the Chinese government is also a bit concerned with what might happen if any other countries were to intervene. If it goes bad in North Korea, China woul d be crammed with refugees and disastrous fallout. If i were them i would probab ly feel similarly, No need for America nor any other country to come in, cause a humanitarian disaster (worse than already exists) then have a foreign nation se t up military operations right on your doorstep. Some people just prefer the dev il they know. Not that I'm condoning ignoring that crazy bastard in Pyongyang, j ust that I feel that those are the Chinese governments main motivations. permalink parent load more comments (2 replies) [ ]HeavyShockWave 60 points 9 hours ago As I understand it, the main reason China backs up North Korea is because they w ant a buffer state. They are fairly paranoid (as is Russia) and would rather hav e Crazy North Korea protecting them than nothing at all. Although lately China h as become more and more irritated with North Korea's actions, I wouldn't be surp rised if they decided it's not worth it anymore and denounced North Korea as an official ally. permalink [ ]Jabronies96 42 points 5 hours ago

Denounce North Korea as an official ally Civ 5 permalink parent [ ]Discombobulatte 24 points 4 hours ago Oh look, the bloodthirsty one shows his face permalink parent [ ]yapb 14 points 4 hours ago Ghandi? permalink parent [ ]jedi_timelord 4 points 3 hours ago Ghandhihhhh? permalink parent [ ]BikerMouseFromMars 2 points 3 hours ago Oh look, the bloodthirsty one will take your face. permalink parent load more comments (3 replies) [ ]Beaver420 7 points 4 hours ago /r/civpolitics permalink parent [ ]bigbadgreg 3 points 1 hour ago You'll pay for this in time. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies) [ ]fuckyouwhare 10 points 4 hours ago One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is that the old guard within the Ch inese army still puts a lot of value into the "Blood Alliance" that has existed

between the two countries for over 70 years. Mao and the oldest Kim really helped each other out during the dark days of the 1930's and 40's. A few highlights include North Korean brigades being present du ring the last battles against Chang Kai-shek's KMT forces on the mainland before they were driven to what is now Taiwan. China sent over a million troops into N orth Korea during the Korean war. permalink [ ]ihavea5head 12 points 3 hours ago North Korea was made in China. permalink load more comments (2 replies) [ ]The_Glorious_Years 6 points 2 hours ago I've come to this coversation a bit late, but I hope I can provide another expla nation. It's already been mentioned that China "defends" North Korea to maintain a buffe r state against US backed South Korea, and to avoid a potential influx of North Korean refugees should war break out. However, there is one other important reason that I don't think has been mention ed yet. I've been told this by Chinese friends/colleagues (I studied and now wor k in Beijing) when I asked this question before. Basically, the Communist Party of China owes a lot to North Korea. In the 1920s and 1930s when the Chinese Communists were getting off the ground, they received a large amount of support and assistance from their compatriots in North Korea. When China was fighting against the Japanese, the North Koreans provided money and arms. When the Communists fought the Nationalists in the Chinese Civil War, North Korea again backed the Communists. Mao Zedong and the Chinese Communist Party owed a lot to the support of North Ko rea in founding the People's Republic of China. To this day they still want to b e seen as honouring this, and "pay back" the North Korean's generosity and suppo rt. However, given that Kim Jong-Un is still as despotic as his predecessors and is constantly branded evil by the rest of the world, China is distancing itself fro m North Korea, although still has to maintain the appearance of "solidarity" or "defence" or "support". I hope that answers the question from a different perspective. permalink [ ]GoldManG 63 points 8 hours ago "Everybody needs a wildcard!" ...but not in a funny way. permalink

[ ]juanLegTapDance 47 points 7 hours ago ::NK cuts breaks on world's van.:: permalink parent [ ]Tendos_Burginer 36 points 7 hours ago Wildcard BITCHES! permalink parent [ ]pateras 10 points 6 hours ago Wait, so if North Korea's the wildcard, and China's the brains, who's the looks? permalink parent [ ]tepdude 6 points 5 hours ago Russia This is a semi-joke permalink parent [ ]Grays42 6 points 5 hours ago Sweden. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]Warholandy 26 points 7 hours ago Bro code permalink [ ]tcnjlady12 4 points 1 hour ago China also defends North Korea as a way of making sure the balance of the intern ational system doesn't become upset. If North Korea were a completely rogue stat e then its leadership's actions would be even more unpredictable and uncontainab le. Something not reported widely in American media is the amount of behind the scenes negotiating Beijing does on behalf of the U.S. to ensure we don't end up in WW3. This helps the WTO and UN as well. Edit: Added the final sentence to veer away from my opinion and drive the logic of the argument to its conclusion. permalink [ ]Mudo675 13 points 3 hours ago

I could answer that by asking "Why does US defend Israel so often at the interna tional level"? Every country has their interests, that's the correct answer. permalink load more comments (1 reply) [ ]kimchifartz 6 points 5 hours ago China is much less likely to defend north Korea today than it was 5 years ago. A lso, if you check out some wikileaks diplomatic cables, it shows that Chinese of ficials have tacitly approved the possibility of a future Korean peninsula run b y the southern regime. They realize that their future is with economic cooperati on between the South and the US, not through propping up the north. At the same time, China is threatened by the US military presence in Korea and t he whole asia-pacific. Korean reunification means that the US occupied south wil l then occupy the north. The absolute LAST thing that China wants is US troops o n its borders. The result of this is that China's biggest interest is in preserv ing a status quo by calling for stability. This doesn't mean that China will alw ays come to North Korean defense (Look at China's response to the most recent mi ssile crisis to see what I mean). permalink load more comments (2 replies) [ ]dog_in_the_vent 7 points 6 hours ago The same reason we wouldn't let North Korea invade Mexico. permalink load more comments (4 replies) [ ]AndyHu 5 points 7 hours ago because that's Chinas front yard permalink [ ]ordin22 6 points 7 hours ago I think it is hard to sum up because it involves many different angles. This art icle tries to make it simple though. 6 little words.... Others disagree with thi s, but I could see how it makes sense. (I think the notion of buffer state is/sh ould be included in this rational). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/12/why-china-still-sup ports-north-korea-in-six-little-words/ permalink load more comments (16 replies) [ ]4ty6andtool 28 points 7 hours ago

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. permalink [ ]UmamiSalami 65 points 6 hours ago It's time to stop pretending that China is America's "enemy." Sorry but this isn 't the 20th century anymore and international politics isn't governed by men in military uniforms moving around little plastic soldiers. permalink parent [ ]Tealwisp 27 points 5 hours ago* This is a hot topic in international relations. With the rise of liberal politic s and relations, the idea of war is now rather far from mind. That doesn't mean states don't have rivals and enemies, though. China's definitely the biggest pla yer to take over the US's position as the dominant world power. As it happens, r ising powers and falling powers tend to go to war with one another, at least in Realist theories. With the economic interdependence of the US and China, plus the liberal policy g oals (namely, that states these days tend to be interested in more than their ow n power, such as human well-being) of the American people, war seems unlikely. B ut competition? You better believe there's power plays going on. The US recently flew some B-52s through a contested area that China declared was to be respected as their sovereign territory, and a no-fly zone. The assertion of sovereignty was the first power play, to see what Japan would do. The second was the bombers, to say, "Yeah, we know you said not to. What?" The big question is if, and when, these power plays will switch from muscle flex ing to actual punching. That's the million dollar question. Edited for grammar and spelling permalink parent [ ]Aeto_the_Wizard 2 points 56 minutes ago China cannot overtake the United States as a world superpower, not for some time . They don't have the military reach that the United States does, and that's the sole reason for why the US is considered the dominant world power today. The United States and China are very closely tied economically. If eclare war on the other, it'd be a disaster for both sides, not to tially another World War since every other country would be forced ide. All you see in the news is political posturing, looking tough ther side can't push you around in negotiations. permalink parent load more comments (4 replies) [ ]osamabinsmoking 15 points 5 hours ago 2 reasons that US and China will never go to war. one were to d mention poten to choose a s so that the o

1, economics, both countries benefit tremendously from economic cooperation with each other, and with globalization, the world's 2 largest economy in the world go to with each other, the whole world economy will suffer, neither countries wa nt that to happen. 2, nukes. permalink parent load more comments (6 replies) load more comments (11 replies) [ ]Tealwisp 5 points 6 hours ago I'm guessing you didn't mean this to be a serious response, but it's really not a great summation of the whole issue in any sense. The two states have a long-st anding history of alliance, and they're not just mutual enemies of someone else. Even if that were the case, the issue is still much more complicated. permalink parent [ ]az4z3l 7 points 5 hours ago But this is eli5 where we want simple answers to complicated questions. permalink parent [ ]Tealwisp 4 points 5 hours ago Yeah, but this is a bad answer. Just being simple doesn't make it good (or right ). Edit: you might be being sarcastic. I'm not sure. I'm tired and cranky. permalink parent [ ]az4z3l 2 points 5 hours ago It is right, though. In a very simple way, that is the answer. NK opposes the US and that is preferable to a government that works with the US. permalink parent load more comments (5 replies) load more comments (7 replies) [ ]Rfasbr 19 points 7 hours ago Let's not forget why NK feels a bit legitimized in their views. Per the cease fi re agreement, allied forces from both sides had to withdraw from all the Korean peninsula. The communist allies did so. The US did not. Technically, the NK has a legitimate claim on who's the aggressor here - the US is violating the cease f

ire and thus blockading the course of a peace agreement. Of course its not that simple, nor could NK be trusted not to invade SK once the US pulled out, but sti ll.... permalink [ ]mpyne 10 points 4 hours ago Technically, the NK has a legitimate claim on who's the aggressor here - the US is violating the cease fire and thus blockading the course of a peace agreem ent. Even if we assume this is true (and it's not, go read the Armistice for yourself ), that would still be possibly the most nave geopolitical thought I've seen on R eddit all day :-/. North Korea was the "aggressor" from day one, and their aggressiveness was provo ked by the American withdrawal of forces in 1950; a mistake that would have been foolish to repeat (which is exactly why there's no provision for complete Ameri can withdrawal in the armistice...). Go ahead, ban me from /r/pyongyang, I don't care. :P permalink parent load more comments (2 replies) [ ]korewarp 30 points 7 hours ago Screw legitimate claims. They're murdering people for fucking tarded ass reasons . permalink parent [ ]bb85 12 points 6 hours ago yup, and if we're using the term "technical", I think US only has advisors. I kn ow that's veiled, but if we're gonna make believe... permalink parent [ ]ChaosRevealed 53 points 6 hours ago Hi, Middle East calling. Can I get a refund on the murdering people for fucking tarded ass reasons? Thanks. permalink parent [ ]RedDevil555 8 points 5 hours ago Can you explain your comment a bit to a person who's wildly uninformed on Middle Eastern problem, political, military or otherwise.

permalink parent [ ]surreptitious_chode 6 points 4 hours ago You know how the Irish have been bitching about sovereignty largely due to natio nalism and rivaling preferences in their religion? Remember the various Bloody S undays or The Troubles in general? Now, think that; but extend the argument to over a dozen countries and toss in t he variables of everything from despotic rulers to puppet governments set up as resultants of the Cold War, along with the emergence of social media like Twitte r or Face-fucking-book (and a sprinkle of perpetual sand in the groins)...and ba by, you've got a stew goin'. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (3 replies) [ ]CopernicusLearnicus 2 points 6 hours ago China doesn't like the possibility of a US allied state right underneath them, n ot mentioning the fact that they get cheap natural resources from the North, whi ch has been somewhat of a contested issue under the new Kim regime. It may be a massive headache for them at times but it comes down to money and politics here. permalink [ ]UsedSprockets 3 points 4 hours ago I'd always considered North Korea as a buffer state for China. Both South Korea and Japan have more ties to the United States than they do to China, so China ke eps North Korea around to ensure that no US-loyal state has direct borders with them in East Asia. permalink [ ]nmahoney 2 points 3 hours ago North Korea acts as a buffer zone between China and South Korea. If the Korean p eninsula was to unify, it would only bring the US troops/Western troops statione d in South Korea that much closer to the norther Chinese border and closer to Be jing permalink [ ]humdinger44 2 points 2 hours ago If there was no North Korea would there be troops in south Korea? permalink parent

[ ]GenericUsernameLol 2 points 2 hours ago I can't wait to see the day that North Korea is demolished, and it's people libe rated from the crazy fucks who rule it. permalink [ ]junkindafront 1 point 1 hour ago why does the US defend israel so much? permalink load more comments (1 reply) [ ]ScottieSpliffin 2 points 1 hour ago Most Asian states fear China because of its massive growth and dominance within the region, thus they are more aligned with the US. This explains US military pr esence in the region being more accepted. With this China doesn't have very many allies, especially in Asia. Ideally China would like North Korea to open its ma rkets more with China but North Korea acts in a relatively rouge manner in the i nternational arena. The US also does not have formal diplomatic relations with N orth Korea. This allows China to act as a third party during diplomatic negotiat ions. China uses this in order to show itself as a player in world affairs and o ffer greater influence in Asia TL:DR China doesn't have many friends in Asia and is competing with US influence in the area permalink [ ]thedugong 22 minutes ago "China to this day views NK like some famous movie star might view an awkward re tarded brother who has a habit of masturbating in public and ruining famous olde r brother's PR. Sure, you can slap him around for doing it but that'll just draw more attention and get you in trouble for child abuse. Your only choice is to s it there and enjoy your prosperity and fame while accepting the fact that your a wkward brother occasionally jizzes on your leg." http://wartard.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/kim-jong-il-crazy-like-fox.html permalink [ ]-Novice 11 points 6 hours ago Because North Korea is best Korea permalink load more comments (5 replies) [ ]nokomis28 2 points 6 hours ago China also has a strong stated ethos of not interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign states. It claims the right to manage its own internal affairs and confers this right on other states. This gives the Beijing leadership cover to o nly contain the DPRK. You may ask about Tibet, Taiwan and it's South China Sea d isputes (among a few others). China has its own perception of what constitutes i

ts domestic sphere. permalink load more comments (4 replies) [ ]mkrt 5 points 4 hours ago Follow up question: Why does the US defend Israel so often at the international stage? permalink [ ]halaal_sandwich 2 points 3 hours ago After WW2 the US government helped set up Israel as the 'Jewish homeland'. A Jew ish Israel wasn't going to go down well with the neighbouring Arab countries, se veral of whom didn't really like the US either so the US started to give a lot o f aid to Israel to help them out. Thus the US developed a small but powerful all y in the Middle East who is now dependant on the US economy and military* I have heard that a minor factor in this is that a large chunk of the fundementa list Christians in the Bible Belt have a hard-on for Israel due to religious rea sons (Jesus' second coming, etc) so protecting Israel helps gets votes. Although I'm not sure how true that is. * While it should be noted that Israel has a decent army, it is a very small cou ntry and they only manage to keep the military's strength up by mandatory conscr iption for men and women. permalink parent [ ]clunk_pail 2 points 2 hours ago A Jewish Israel wasn't going to go down well with the neighbouring Arab coun tries, several of whom didn't really like the US either so the US started to giv e a lot of aid to Israel to help them out. Thus the US developed a small but pow erful ally in the Middle East who is now dependant on the US economy and militar y* Chain of causality is a little murky here... While it should be noted that Israel has a decent army, it is a very small c ountry and they only manage to keep the military's strength up by mandatory cons cription for men and women. Weird omission of nuclear weapons. permalink parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (5 replies) [ ]malickmobeen 8 points 6 hours ago Can i ask same question for USA and Israel ?

permalink [ ]found_Jimmy_hoffa 15 points 5 hours ago North Korea is a joke compared to Israel, and it is becoming more of a liability to China. Israel continues to play an important role by being a strategic ally and arm to our government in the mid east. The relationship between China and NK will dry up long before that of the US and our "watchdog". permalink parent [ ]bambhole 3 points 2 hours ago It's just that the US presents Israel in the best light possible and DPRK in the worst light possible. permalink parent load more comments (2 replies) [ ]khalam 6 points 5 hours ago no, you can't. permalink parent load more comments (10 replies) [ ]MasterKaen 3 points 7 hours ago They're brothers in the communist household. However North Korea is the stupid l ittle brother, and China still has too look put for him. permalink [ ]GGerrik 4 points 4 hours ago China is your house, South Korea is a house that likes to blast really loud musi c at all hours of the night. You don't much fancy South Korea but luckily they're two houses away. North gets d get music Korea is the house between you and the noisy house, whenever your neighbor into a little bit of trouble the noisy house tries and buys their house an closer to you with their loud music. So rather than live next to the loud house you help your neighbor stay afloat.

However sometimes your neighbor also plays loud music, parks on your lawn, or le ts their dog poop on your grass. However when you ask them to stop they usually do, unlike the noisy house two houses down. So while you don't always like your neighbor they're much better than the noisy house and the only thing stopping th e noisy house from being right next to you. permalink load more comments (1 reply)

[ ]flipco44 4 points 7 hours ago China defended the Khmer Rouge until the bitter end, even when the KR controlled only a very small area in north Cambodia, and even after KR atrocities were ful ly exposed to the world. China's foreign policy is pure, utterly selfish power p olitics, ideals and morality are not part of the picture. China does not want a united Korean peninsula, it fears it would ally itself with the west. A perpetua l dysfunctional basket case in the north serves to prevent unification. The atti tude is China, first, last and always, the center of Heaven. permalink [ ]wonkydonky 47 points 7 hours ago China's foreign policy is pure, utterly selfish power politics, ideals and m orality are not part of the picture. That's not unique to China. permalink parent [ ]Erzherzog 4 points 7 hours ago And it's also basically the only thing the elite can do. Trying to liberalize wo uld end with them lined up against a wall. permalink parent [ ]AnEnomaly 2 points 4 hours ago China USA USA China Argh fuck it, they're all the same. permalink parent load more comments (1 reply) [ ]pvabbvap 10 points 6 hours ago China's foreign policy is pure, utterly selfish power politics, ideals and m orality are not part of the picture. As is that of all other countries. permalink parent [ ]pasabagi 5 points 6 hours ago There's actually a great deal of debate about this. Look up something like 'crit ique of realism in international relations' - if you can find a decent public do main article, you'll see the point quickly gets very complicated. permalink parent [ ]houyx3563 4 points 6 hours ago

China used Cambodia as a buffer state against Vietnam and possible Vietnamese ex pansion into Cambodia. permalink parent load more comments (8 replies) [ ]starfoks 2 points 8 hours ago While China has been harder and harder on North Korea in recent years... They co ntinue to support North Korea because they won't completely abandon their commun ist routes. North Korea is their ally for very similar reasons, it represents co mmunism, and a lot of what China still likes to pretend it is. Just as China sti ll refers to their economy as Socialism with "Chinese Characteristics" refusing to refer to themselves as the nearly full-blown capitalist state they really are , they hold onto the communist bits. And thus they hold onto the relations with the DPRK. Also... With the U.S having so much influence in the region China likes to balan ce the power dynamic by holding what allies they can. permalink load more comments (4 replies) [ ]lacraig2 1 point 5 hours ago One of the big problems is that if there were no North Korea we (western countri es) would view China similarly to how we view North Korea. We would start cracki ng down on Human Rights violations and such. Instability in the region works tow ards China's goals and redirects attention off them. permalink [ ]eli4672 1 point 4 hours ago I doubt the Chinese government feels the need for a 'buffer state', as some peop le in this thread have claimed. That's a very antiquated view. North Korea has been a significant destabilising force in the region. The United States and its allies use a lot of resources managing the situation - resources that might otherwise be used in ways that are not well aligned with Chinese int erests. The Chinese government is happy for this situation to continue, as long as it do es not become expensive for China, vis--vis a humanitarian crisis within Chinese borders, a conflict that causes significant economic disruption and so on. In short, I think the proximity of North Korea to China informs China's stabilis ing influence on the ongoing conflict, but not their destabilising influence, wh ich I feel is a deliberate attempt to weaken competing powers. permalink [ ]BrainBurrito 3 points 7 hours ago China appreciates having a geographical and ideological buffer there. China is a lready bordered by about 15 countries, so it's nice to have an icy netherworld i t doesn't have to worry about. Also, China sells all sorts of fake products ("ap

ple", "nike", etc) to Pyongyang. permalink load more comments (145 replies) about blog about team source code advertise jobs help wiki FAQ reddiquette rules contact us tools mobile firefox extension chrome extension buttons widget <3 reddit gold store redditgifts reddit.tv radio reddit Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy . 2014 reddit inc. All rights reserved. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. p