Académique Documents
Professionnel Documents
Culture Documents
EXHIBIT A
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 2 of 13
Sam Merten
According to juror Nedra Frazier,
the arguments against conspiracy
surrounded Rickey Robertson, seen
here leaving the courthouse with his
wife and baby daughter after the
jury found him guilty on two counts.
A few hours after she and 11 other jurors found Don Hill and his four
co-defendants guilty of 23 of the 29 charges against them in the
Dallas City Hall corruption case, Rowlett resident Nedra Frazier gave
me a behind-the-scenes peek at the deliberations. Much like my
lengthy interview with Don and Sheila Hill, the majority of my
conversation with Frazier didn't make it into the cover story in the
current paper version of Unfair Park because of space constraints, so
I've again pulled together the highlights in the form of a Q & A after
the jump.
Page 1 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 3 of 13
The jury spent the most time discussing count 20, Frazier says,
eventually finding both Hill and Reagan not guilty. "There just wasn't
enough evidence on that one." After that decision, jurors took a
second look at approximately four other counts, especially regarding
Sheila Hill's and Rickey Robertson's involvement. "There were several
we had to go back and just really, really think about it and talk about
it."
What did the jury see as the most damning evidence against
the defendants?
Just looking at all the facts, like the video surveillance, the
transcripts, testimony -- all those were the factors. So, we had what,
Page 2 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 4 of 13
over 2, 300 hundred that we had to go through and just make sure
and make our verdict.
Was there any one or two things that you saw in particular
that really illustrated that there was corruption going on?
You take conspiracy with that count and you have to determine what
is conspiracy in the count. OK, what did this person do? Why would
we think that was conspiracy? So, because you had everybody's
opinion, they're like, "No, that's not conspiracy." So you had 12 people
with different versions of conspiracy, so you find yourself writing
down the information. What does the law say right now -- what's
conspiracy? And the documentation they gave us was wonderful -- the
juror's instruction book, the indictment book -- all that had the
definition in there. So we just had to go back to the board and say,
"OK, this is conspiracy. This is bribery. This is extortion," and
compare it with the evidence we found with that count.
Page 3 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 5 of 13
Sam Merten
Frazier says she was
"shocked" when Don Hill
(pictured) took the stand,
and his testimony
regarding a fax machine
was "the talk of the day."
Page 4 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 6 of 13
I'm pretty sure everybody because that was the talk of the day, just
talking to everybody. (I followed up on this in a separate
conversation, which is provided at the end.)
Well, that and just some other things in the testimonies. It was so
much, what, we listened to 44 testimonies? Oh, my gosh. And he was
up there for what, three days I believe?
Yeah, so it was a lot, back and forth. He's a very intelligent man. He
answered the questions. We were able to get a lot of information from
that. Did it hurt? I don't know. Like I said, the talk was the fax
machine. (laughs)
Other than that, I feel like he presented himself well. He talked and
explained every question that was asked, but I think that's the main
thing that stuck out was the fax machine. It did because they made a
big deal out of it.
Page 5 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 7 of 13
Or even why he even said, "I don't have a fax machine at my home." I
think it should have just stuck as, "I didn't receive the documents."
And then when he came back to say, "I don't have a fax machine," it's
like, "That wasn't one of the questions."
(sighs) Just the way it was brought out behind the church -- it was
always behind the church -- I'm like, OK. And the way it was given to
him and what was written on the envelope: contributions. When you
listen to the defense and prosecutors, it was kinda swaying back and
forth. And when he got up to testify and said, "I didn't know Reagan
was coming to the church." And, of course, when [prosecutor Marcus
Bush] played the tape (laughing), it showed where [Reagan] was
going to meet him at the church.
Page 6 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 8 of 13
Sam Merten
Frazier says the defense didn't get
any traction with its argument that
Don Hill and his co-conspirators
weren't doing anything different
from former Mayor Laura Miller
(pictured) and developer Bill Fisher,
who weren't charged in the case.
What about the theory from the defense that this goes on all
the time? For example, Laura Miller got contributions from
Brian Potashnik before voting for his projects, and Bill
Fisher was getting his projects approved by James Fantroy
while handing out security contracts to him. Do you feel like
they got any traction with that?
Page 7 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 9 of 13
I don't think so. They weren't on trial -- Laura Miller ... I don't know. I
really don't know ... I don't think anybody really just looked at it. Of
course, it was mentioned several times, but we had to look at the facts
that were in front of us with the defense. So I didn't take that into any
factor at all.
(sighs) Um, wow. Pretty brave, I guess. (laughs) You have to be pretty
brave and pretty confident to get on the stand and testify after what,
four years of video taping and phone conversations? I don't know. I
don't know. Wow. I don't know. (The time period for the taping and
phone conversations was less than one year.)
Page 8 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 10 of 13
I think all the witnesses were credible. We listened to all 44, and they
all played a big role in this. One didn't stand out more than the
others. We looked at everybody and listened to everybody's
testimony.
Not really. Like I said, there were so many people, and everyone had a
different experience, a different version. It was just amazing to me the
different experiences they had with the defendants, so that's why one
didn't stick out more than the others because everybody's experience
was totally different. Totally different.
I think it was more about the counts, or let's say the definition of the
counts -- if the person actually committed bribery, extortion.
The main one that kinda sticks out right now is Rickey Robertson
because he wasn't a major player. He was just behind the scenes
pretty much but was a player. His intentions probably going in were
good, but he didn't know the players or didn't know exactly what he
was getting into, and I think as he started doing business, different
Page 9 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 11 of 13
transactions, that's when it started ... He got involved, let's say that.
So I think that one is the only one that really sticks out in my head.
It's very emotional. It's overwhelming ... Today was very emotional
for me and for a lot of us. Even though we didn't communicate, we
were in the same room for four months. Just looking at the families
and the defendants, it was very, very emotional. And it still is very
emotional.
Page 10 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 12 of 13
Well, I think the public itself. Everybody just made a big deal out of it
between the defendants and the prosecutors. Well, the prosecutors
made a big deal out of it. I guess they took it and ran with it. It was
like, "Wow, we got him." Like I said, it really wasn't an issue.
When you said it was the talk of the day, were other jurors
seeing it the same way?
When you said it was the talk of the day, it gives the
impression that you had been discussing it with the other
jurors. (This would have violated an order from Judge
Barbara Lynn prohibiting jurors from discussing the case
prior to deliberations.)
Oh, no. No. It was the outside people. I was talking about the public,
not the jurors -- the people in the courtroom, the media, the
prosecutors.
So, you were following along with what was going on in the
media? (Again, this would have violated Lynn's orders.)
Page 11 of 13
Case 3:07-cr-00289-M Document 1044-2 Filed 10/28/2009 Page 13 of 13
Yeah, other people just kind of talked about it in passing. You hear
people saying, "The fax machine."
No, I didn't.
You didn't?
Page 12 of 13