An interview with Roland Dyens

by Sofia Mazi (July 2006; Arnea, Halkidiki, Greece)

Finally, the lights go off and people anxiously hurry to their seats. Some last
preparations on stage are being made and one is filled with this sweet, unique
feeling that you only have when youre about to live a big experience :Ladies
and gentlemen, Roland Dyens!
I consider myself very fortunate that my first journalistic mission was an interview from the French
maitr of the guitar. Our acquaintance took place in a concert during the 6th guitar festival of
Konstantinos Matsigkos Conservatory in Arnea, Halkidiki, Greece . Roland Dyens unleashed his
virtuosity in a concert that included everything : passion , imagination , spontaneity , intensity ; all
these elements blended among a variety of musical styles . From Sor studies to his well-known jazz
covers , from Hatzidakis to his own Tango en Skai , Dyens gave as a thorough insight to his musical
world , thus to his life point of view . Because music is not just plain notes but a way to see life
through another scope , so different than the one of every days life and at the same time so utterly
connected to it .
The appointment was arranged for a few days later in a sunny beach of Halkidiki . We found him
sitting on the sand , surrounded by his students and teaching them like another ancient Socrates .
Being casually dressed and feeling very relaxed , he shared some of his thoughts with us , concerning
both his music and his personality . As we found out later , his greek roots ( his distant origin is from
Thessaloniki) have influenced him more than we could have imagined : for every greek originated
word he used , he proudly rushed to point out : You see? This is Greek too!
By reading this interview , we hope you agree with us that the words of such a great artist are not
mere statements but also some very important thinking material we should all sleep on

-The element of improvisation is very intense in your original compositions, as
well as in your covers of other musical pieces. How important do you think
improvisation is to the development of a musician as well as a composer?
Its a huge question. Its very important. I always start my recitals with improvisation as far as I
remember. I start with something fresh and unknown for many reasons. I use this power, this gift by
this way at the beginning just to feel a bit more relaxed; it was a kind of habit and it became a kind of
superstition and it was not only to kill the anxiety which is always the case today, to be honest. It was
for many purposes: to test the acoustic, to test the people. I feel like an animal when Im playing an
improvisationIm feeling a lot of things and what is the most important maybe is a kind of link Im
doing with musicians in the very old past . For example, the lute players: they all played
improvisation to start the concert. Its not Greek by the way but prelude in Latin means before
playing. So Im in connection again with these musicians from the past. I dont feel like crazy
classical. Im just feeling of being the continuator of something that was very common at the past
and some things, somehow broke (I dont know when, somewhere in the middle of 19th century)
with this idea of improvisation. First of all Im thinking of the cadenzas of concertos that had to be
improvised.And some crazy guy once, having poor imagination, begged the composer to write the
cadenza. So he false the rule of the game and from this guy (I dont know who or when) things have
changed. From this moment, things became very different in the classical planet
As a student when I finished my studies in Paris, I played the Villa-Lobos concerto and on the day of
my exams I improvised the cadenza and joined, because it was an exam, the written cadenza at one
moment. So during maybe two minutes, I played my stuff. A really improvised stuff. Maybe I didnt
tell my teacher, Alberto Ponce, I dont remember because I love surprises. NoI think I told him.
Its the way I am. Im not cheating by doing that, Im not trying to find how to be different, Im always
the same. In the jazz world, things are absolutely different and also in the organ tradition there are
improvisations and this is still remaining.
Now about the improvisation and the composition I think that Im not expecting something special
from an improvisation. It comes from nowhere and has to leave afterwards. Its the rule of the game
of improvisation. Dont try to catch it like a bird, its gone with the wind. Sometimes when I come on
stage I really want to go empty and to start with a note, a single chord, I dont knowI dont prepare
anything. But sometimes (it happened to me twice) I use a cell, the first cell of a composition in a
situation where I feel really inspired. Its an important part of my life and I do that because I think
that I know more (than the most classical guitarists) of the geography of my instrument. The idea of
geography is very important. The classical guitarists do know very well about the history but not
about the geography of the guitar. From the other side, jazz players or popular musicians know the
geography of their instrument. And I, most of all, know the geography of my guitar . Thats why I feel
free when Im playing an improvisation and never feel like its a big challenge or that I get lost in the
middle of something. NoI know where I am, mostly!

-So you think that improvisation is only a gift or can you teach it as well?
Excellent question. I tried to for many years. I was asked to lead an improvisation class. I wouldnt say
it was a disaster but it was very tricky, very hard, very complicated. You cannot improvise an
improvisation, I would say. You have to know about this famous geography of the instrument.
Improvisation is not just playing any notes or pizzicato Bartok, everybody can do that. But if you want
to do something coherent with structure, ritornelle, and thematic you have to know about the
instrument. Ive seen so many people coming to this master class about improvisation like crazy but
unable to play Re minor. So I gave up quite soon and I changed a bit my mind with that and started
teaching about arrangements; and even that requires a lot : harmony, knowledge in geography,
positions, the degrees, dominantsits like the drivers license: you cant drive a Ferrari like that, you
have to drive a Clio first. It would be demagogic to say ok, Im leading an improvisation class. Not to
mention the people who dont have any imagination or are really tensed about trying to improvise.
They were afraid by playing or being wrong so I said be wrong, be wrong. Dont feel like you have
the obligation of playing that many notes. Play two notes but think of them. I know many people
having all the prizes of the world in harmony and everything but not being able at a tavern to play a
song without a score. I prefer the contrary. People that dont know how to read music but improvise
with their heart. I do prefer them.

Your jazz influences are very obvious. Would you ever consider the possibility
of doing a record with an original jazz band?
No, never. Im not a jazz player. Otherwise I would have played a jazz guitar with a band and etc. Im
a classical musician, very greedy, very curious and Im just visiting jazz with my knowledge of a
classical musician. I feel the jazz, I think I know the swing, I know the harmonies, the chords but I love
to keep my sound of classical guitar. I love to suggest jazz through my guitar and the most stupid
thing that had been written once was in a jazz magazine after my Night & Day record. They said that
I fancied ridiculous. I didnt feel offended by that but they said:
the double bass is missing, the drums are missing its absurd , because I just wanted to suggest
jazz by the solo guitar (by playing with the flesh, pizzicato) and many people said exactly the
opposite : that I suggested the orchestra (the horn, the double bass, the drums), but it was not my
goal to do that. Otherwise I would have played with a group. I dont think that the most open minded
people come from jazz.

-You think that someone who doesnt improvise is less competent than someone
who does?
Of course. Honesty is one of my qualities I wouldnt choose the word competent, I would say
more free in music expression. Its nothing but obvious to me that one who is able to improvise has a
liberty, a freedom in expression. Thats the musician I prefer in the classical world, in the guitar
planet. Almost every time Im in love with a student that plays for me , I ask him how many years
do you play and he says 2-3 years and I say wow!. 90% of them come from jazz, from rock , from
improvisational music in general . They have a real liberty in phrasing, they know what a rubato is,
what a ritenuto is they know exactly. Because they have the pulse from the basement of the
house. On the contrary, the classical musicians dont know how to make a real rubato. Rubato (for
them) is like life had stopped. No, no, no, the heart is still beating but you have to slalom with that.

-What do you think of the Greek guitarist s level and do you suppose that they
lack in comparison with other countries guitar level?
I think that Greek students (I believe I know them after so many years) are very gifted, musical,
sometimes outstanding! The tone sometimes could be improved and the instruments are often not
in a high level. Except some (guitar) makers that I love, Pavlos Gypas for example. I really love him.
However, to return to the subject, the Greek students are full of desire, passion and appetite for
guitar. They really play great and are flexible to any kind of music. The Greek people have a special
feeling!

- Are you aware of any Greek guitar composer that you really like? Do you
believe that there is any Greek guitarist who has contributed to the guitar the
same way like John Williams, David Russel or like you did?
Ive heard very interesting pieces from Fampas, he wrote very nice dances. I find Giorginakis really
interesting. Boudounis also writes beautiful things that Elena Papandreou played. Id love to say
Hajidakis but of course he wasnt a guitarist. My knowledge is not enough about greek composers
but Im telling you just what really attracted my attention. You have many guitarists in Greece: Elena
Papandreou, Kostas Kotsiolis, Antigoni Goni, the young generation has many good guitarists. Some of
my students used to come to France to my master classes. I had a group of greeks who became very
good teachers and outstanding guitarists. And of course Evangelos Asimakopoulos and Liza Zoi. They
belong to the Presti-Lagoya school, they were their students. I owe them my first appearance in
Greece and Ill never forget that. But I heard many, many good students in Greece all these years.
-Maybe more than you expected?
Yes, maybe more than I expected at the very beginning, to be honest.

-What are your influences in classical music in general?
I love so many great composers. Bach is to me (I dont believe in God), the one who made me doubt
His existence. I love Chopin, he is not only the composer for little girls, I love Ravel, Debussy of
course, the French schoolI love that. Stravinsky, Schumann, Villa-Lobos, not only his guitar pieces,
ilhaud. They all built me Im not a great fun of Beethoven, to be honest. In the guitar world Im
not very fond of Mertz, I love the 19th century composers but Mertz never convinced me, never!
-When you are at home and you want to relax, what kind of music do you listen
to?
Any kind. It could be Indian music (I love Indian music), maybe Chopin, Mozart, it could be Brazilian
or Argentinean songs, Bulgarian voices, all good music. It is very difficult to give a definition of what
bad music is, but it is most certain that there is.

-You most obviously have a personal musi cal style and aesthetic. But my
question is: did you ever have the concern to create a personal musical
language like J. Hendrix, Ch. Parker?
No, to be honest, never. Until you asked me this thing had never come to my mind. Maybe just one
thing : a certain touch. A touch in the instrument more than in composition. My taste for the colors
making a kind of fusion, but not a collage. Its more difficult to make a good fusion without collage.
By the way, bad music for me is collage: the rock part, the Indian partwhen they say Hommage to
Piazzola, for example, it is a kind of soup of Piazzola music, its fake and bad Piazzola. You have to
find enough to make the idea of Piazzola through the piece but they do it in a very disgraceful way. If
Im to let something, this would be the trace of somebody who tries to make a good fusion, a tasteful
fusion. My language is a kind of melting pot in my way. I can tell you that when Im composing Im
trying to be absolutely honest with myself. Its not so easy to remain honest all the time. You have to
face all kind of little dictators: first of all, the dictator of contemporary music, if you want to write
contemporary enough. Its difficult not to fall in this trap, its a big trap, an intellectual trap and Im a
victim of that, too. Finally at the end of the story my real nature is overcoming all the time, you
cannot cheat with that. Im unable to write music I cant feel. When Im writing music I think of what I
like, Im dreaming of the audience listening to that, what would be more emotional for the audience
because Im a composer and soloist. Im both. We are not so many that are both of these, in the
world. We have many composers that are not players and we have great players that never wrote
two notes in their life. I noticed that those who compose and play are my friends. Im thinking of
Sergio Assad, Duan Bogdanovic, Nikita Koshkin we are in connection, we understand each other a
lot, we dont only talk about the strings we use. We share a lot and we mostly speak of many other
subjects than music.

-In an previous interview you said that it s a stupid idea to make a division
among composers and performers. Could you explain that?
In my inner thoughts I would respond with a self-question. Im always and still wondering how and
why a soloist or a player doesnt compose. I will answer your question by another question, it sounds
like a mystery for me. The sculptors are creating sculptures, the painters create paintings .But what
about the musicians? Most of them in the classical world are like vampires able to suck the blood of
others. They often say we create by reproducing other peoples pieces. Its not the same, thats not
creation. Creation, first of all, is a kind of emptiness, a blank page. I always have this feeling, Im
doubting all the time. They say we are creators too. Im sorrynot exactly. We recreate Schumann,
we recreate Sor, but its not the same. But my inner mystery is how is it possible that a musician is
not complete, after all. A musician is only part of something all the time. He is not a full artist if he is
not able to improvise, to compose, to analyze what hes going to play. Its a big challenge but to me
sounds so natural.

-In the same interview I read that your goal as a composer is to make an
emotional impact, upon the non music specialist listener with a well -crafted
art. Have you achieved that goal?
It is my goal, absolutely, because I do believe that its highly possible to touch a majority of people, to
move all of them the same way. Im deeply convinced for that. Even contemporary music can touch
the audience. It depends on the way you approach people, you dont have to address them. It is
possible when you use an unexpected sound or the guitar in a different way from the usual. But the
most important thing is when you touch the audience by the way you are, your philosophy at the
stage, the way you are on stageI do my best to approach the people this way and make them feel
comfortable and make me also feel comfortable. My pride and my goal is to speak, to touch them in
a very normal way. I dont want to have only specialists in my audience and Im proud of that. I know
that many non specialists come to my concerts.

-Can a listener who is not used to the sound of a solo classical guit ar get to
love it?
It depends on the one whos playing. There are some outstanding guitarists that are so boring and
are ruining the last chances of making the guitar loved by this new public. The last chancesIm
suffering many times because I know that there are people in the audience who will never come to a
guitar concert again because of them. They stay there, bored, sad and they are right. In order to
make the guitar a real beautiful thing we have to tell a story with a concert, even short, even brief
but the day after, the people have to remember it. The way of playing is my approach, its the way I
am and I know that people like that. I think Im doing my best to touch as more people as possible
without being demagogic, without cheating with quality of music.
-Do improvisation and composing go together?
No, no. At the beginning of a composition you start with an improvisation, in a way. When Im in
front of a blank page and I have to do something, I improvise. You take the first cell and you develop
it in anything you want. Improvisation and composition are twins, same family. But I know
composers who are not able to improvise. It is one of my personal mysteriesnot able to improvise
two notes and they write so many! Like a poet who is not a good actor in a way

-When you compose, should we think of you holding a guitar or sitting in front
of a piano ?
When I compose Ive got everything in my head and I use the guitar sometimes for some special
stuffwhen you have the guitar there is a danger: you have the same thoughts coming all the time,
the same prospects, the same arpeggios and the most rewarding thing that can happen to me is
when I write something that its absolutely unplayable at the guitar and make it very playable
afterwards (by using the open strings, by using something unexpected). You would never think of
that if you had the guitar in your hands. So, it kills all your habits. You invent something new, a new
technique that you would never think of with the guitar cause you always have the same reflexes.
Thats maybe my favorite moment in composing. When Im doing something non-guitaristic which
afterwards becomes very guitaristic it is very exciting. And when Im writing something like a
concerto, for example, when Im writing the guitar part I dont need the guitar! I go to the piano to
listen to the chords, to be sure when the thing is finished. I just want to be sure of everything. I make
many changes until the last moment. Then, when the real sound comes, the real vibration comes,
you are never sure for the way it sounds really. I dont know any composer who would tell me ok,
its finished! I never heard it but everythings under control.

-How important is teaching in your life? Do you do it just for making a living or
do you actually enjoy it?I really enjoy that. Since 6 years Im teaching at the
conservatory in Paris, Ive never been there with this feeling of boredom. Its reality for me, it keeps
my feet on earth, it maintains my own level because my students are fond of me and its a big honor
for me to offer my knowledge to them. I need the students at least as much as they need me. Its my
contact to reality because a soloist or a composer is flying in another world.
-Are you afraid to tell a student I dont know?
Sometimes I cannot answer, I dont know everything. I have nothing to hide. Thats my weakness and
my strength. Im a real simple man and Im enjoying not to know sometimes.
The other day a student came and told me that my hands position is a bit different from the usual. I
said I know! My teacher had the same opinion. SoIm a kind of rebel! Im not in the line of my
teacher or any of the other students of my generation. Ive always been a bit of the black duck and I
had my reasons. I like the wrong sound but not when its too wrong cause I love clarity and to hear
all the voices. Otherwise you have a cotton sound which is nice but boring, sometimes. Im flexible
when Im playing the guitar. I dont know what Im doing but I know Im not glued on the same spot.
We have to be the conductors of the guitar and not her slaves. The guitar is waiting for us, like an
animal to tame it. The instrument is the vehicle of music.