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Vikram kapse
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Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/08/2008 1:39 AM
Hello All,
anybody is there who clear my cofusion in "-Mill Tolerance".
what is the significance of "-12.5% Mill Tolerance" & "corrosion allowance" in the Piping stress Analysis, how it's
involvement while calculating the code stress in caesar-II, if same is considered during calculating the pipe thickness.
thanks in advance for your valueable comments.
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#2 "Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis" by Abdel Halim Galala on 04/09/2008 7:51 AM (score 2)
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#7 "Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis" by Abdel Halim Galala on 04/09/2008 7:56 PM (score 1)
tjohnston
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/08/2008 5:35 PM
In the tube and pipe industry, the weld seam is nondestructive tested for defects larger than 12.5% of the wall
thickness. Essentially, the spec allows for a wall thickness reduction of 12.5% due to weld inclusions and incomplete
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fusion. While it is obviously undesirable to have any weld defects, they are a fact of life that will eventually occur.
Perhaps the allowance to reduce the wall thickness by 12.5% is related.
good luck
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Abdel Halim
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 7:51 AM
Pipe Mill Tolerance in accordance with ASTM, ASME B36.10M is considered to be 12.5% of the nominal pipe wall
thickness, tn. That is to say: if you have a pipe supplied with a nominal thickness tn, and you need to measure the
actual thickness, you can find that there is a deviation reaches about 12.5% tn. I mean, if your pipe with a nominal
thickness tn = 10 mm, may be you find the actual thickness is 9 mm or 11 mm, that is mean that there is a tolerance by
1 mm evaluated by 10%tn, and this tolerance still within the recommended tolerance accepted by the code < 12.5%.
This tolerance is very important for designers when started to proceed the piping design, they have to take into
consideration the worst case, I mean when the pipe supplied with a tolerance by minus 12.5% tn, to select the proper
pipe wall thickness to compensate for any expected reduction in thickness of the pipe.
Note. This tolerance is applied for all pipes at mill production, even for seamless pipe type (produced without seam
welds), i.e. it is a mill tolerance, not related to welding or size of weld bead cap. And this tolerance is given to mill for
their insufficient accuracy to produce a pipe wall thickness exactly as the required. And for this reason, we call this pipe
wall thickness as the nominal thickness, tn. For any further clarification, please don't be hesitated.
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 7:21 PM
Any input on the corrosion allowance as a seperate reduction in tolerances. Even API 5L calls out the 12 1/2 % for line
pipe, but working on pressure vessels or power piping we also factor in the corrosion allowance.
Anonymous Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 11:09 AM
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#4
In reply to #3
#5
Poster In addition to Mr Abdel's answer, while calculating stresses for sustained load you should consider least section modulus
(tn -12.5% of tn- CR ) and while calculating thermal loads (forces and moments) take higher thickness (nominal
thickness + 12.5% of tn) and resisting section modulus is the same as for sustained loads.
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 1:30 PM
Dear Guest,
Please note the following paragraph UG-16(d) of ASME code, Section VIII, Division 1, which explains where we don't
take that tolerance in such a specific calculations for nozzles of pressure vessels fabricated from pipes/tubes in what
we called "nozzle area of compensation", detailed at UG-37 REINFORCEMENT REQUIRED FOR OPENINGS IN SHELLS AND
FORMED HEADS:
Quote
UG-16(d) Pipe Undertolerance. If pipe or tube is ordered by its nominal wall thickness, the manufacturing
undertolerance on wall thickness shall be taken into account except for nozzle wall reinforcement area
requirements in accordance with UG-37 and UG-40. The manufacturing undertolerances are given in the several
pipe and tube specifications listed in the applicable Tables in Subsection C. After the minimum wall thickness is
determined, it shall be increased by an amount sufficient to provide the manufacturing undertolerance allowed in the
pipe or tube specification.
Unquote
Therefore, for pipe wall thickness calculation, we have to take the mill tolerance into consideration to find the nominal
thickness, tn. But in nozzle area reinforcement stress analysis, we don't deduct the mill tolerance from the pipe wall
nominal thickness (tn - 12.5%tn), only we take the corrosion allowance CA into consideration, (tn - CA).
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 2:39 PM
The following statement was made by a previous poster:
"This tolerance is very important for designers when started to proceed the piping design, they have to take into
consideration the worst case, I mean when the pipe supplied with a tolerance by minus 12.5% tn, to select the
proper pipe wall thickness to compensate for any expected reduction in thickness of the pipe."
I think that statement is grossly off base. The piping Designer may do the design in Feburary, the stress analysis may
be done in March, the total PDS (or PDMS) piping model is approved in June, the Isometrics downloaded in July, The
Isometrics approved and issued to a pipe fabrication shop in August with a start of fabrication in September.
Now just how do we guarintee that a specific piece of pipe with a specific wall thickness will be used for that specific
Isometric?
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#9
In reply to #8
I would say that the stress analysis must be based on the wall schedule specified in the piping material spec and it must
consider a margin of error for the mill tolerance.
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 7:56 PM
Sorry, may be you don't understand quietly my statement: "The expected reduction in thickness of the pipe", it
means that the pipe when procured as a new and you found that its actual thickness is less than the nominal pipe wall
thickness, tn. For this expecting, we have to take the worst case for the mill tolerance -12.5%tn. And, as I mentioned
at a previous post, the corrosion allowance (other than the pipe mill tolerance) must be taken into consideration. I
mean you have to know the deterioration period of your piping system as a years, and you have to know the corrosion
rate per year (depending on pipe material, temperature, and type of fluid and its concentration) from which you can
evaluate the total corrosion allowance during the whole life, and this corrosion allowance must be added also to the
pipe wall thickness like mill tolerance.
Therefore, I don't understand what do you mean with your question nor the relation between the design and
fabrication stages with our case. In the same time, I think my explanation is very clear and familiar to whom
interesting and experienced in piping design, fabrication, and erection.
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 8:03 PM
Great clarification.
Abdel Halim
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
04/09/2008 8:11 PM
Thank you qaqcpipeman,
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Anonymous
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
03/04/2010 2:07 AM
Great Clarification
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
08/14/2011 7:45 AM
Dear Sir,
I understand the mill tolerence, Thanks for your clarification,
Please specify the corrosion allowance, How we find out this .
What is the corrosion allowance of API 5L GrB . service is caustic soda.
Thanks and Regards
Vani.
Abdel Halim
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
08/14/2011 9:32 AM
The attached graph is Caustic Soda NAOH Service Graph, which is extracted from handbook "Corrosion Data
Survey - Metals Section - 6th. Edition by NACE". The graph is a relation between the concentration of NAOH (%
by weight) and its temperature which creates and indicates an areas A (carbon steel, no stress relief necessary),
B (carbon steel, stress relieve welds), and C (application of nickel alloys to be considered) defines the type of
metal recommended at each area.
So, for proper selection of type of metal and its corrosion rate, you have to define the concentration and
temperature of NAOH.
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.................................................
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Anonymous
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
02/04/2009 2:51 AM
Dear
Understand piping first not a modelling
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spk
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Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis
12/31/2009 5:58 AM
Mill tolerance reduce section modulas (calculated along with corrosion allowance) used in stress calculation.
Mill tolerance increase wt. + thermal forces based on potentially thicker wall.
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#2 "Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis" by Abdel Halim Galala on 04/09/2008 7:51 AM (score 2)
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#7 "Re: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis" by Abdel Halim Galala on 04/09/2008 7:56 PM (score 1)
Users who posted comments:
Abdel Halim Galala (5); Anonymous Poster (3); PennPiper (1); qaqcpipeman (2); spk (1); tjohnston (1); Vani (1)
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