INTERFAITH ALLIANCE STATE OF BELIEF RADIO OCTOBER 25,

2014
RUSH TRANSCRIPT: Matt Stohlandske
Click here for audio
[REV. DR. C. WELTON GADDY, HOST]: Welcome back to State of
Belief Radio, Im Welton Gaddy.
There can be no winners in a culture war. Sure, there are moments
that feel like big wins, and stoking the fres of confict can lead to
impressive fundraising. But depersonalizing those we disagree with,
and coming to see them as a faceless enemy, is profoundly
destructive and profoundly dangerous regardless of how sincere the
convictions that drive the polarization may be.
One alternative to the hopeless us-against-them stalemate exists.
Meet Matt Stohlandske. His recent Washington Post column is titled
Im a gay rights activist. I want to give $150,000 to someone who
opposes gay marriage.
Matt, welcome to State of Belief Radio!
[MATT STOHLANDSKE, GUEST]: Thank you so much for having me.
[WG]: OK, who is it that you want to give $150,000 to?
[MS]: So the family that we are trying to interface with is the Klein
family out of Oregon, who basically has been all over national media
as a result of an event that took place a while ago, in which a lesbian
couple who had previously worked with the baker for diferent clients
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went down and approached the baker and asked them to bake a cake
for their wedding. And the Kleins refused to bake the cake, citing their
religious convictions, stating that they didnt want to send any signal
of approval of gay weddings or gay marriage.
[WG]: What in the world made you consider this approach?
[MS]: Well, I have been at this idea of activism for a little while, just in
the sense that I have always been somewhat politically active. And I
would say I was also in a seminary in Dallas, Texas for a year and a
half. I simply studied this thing called apologetics for a reason. So the
idea of how we communicate our faith, and then the idea od
presuppositional apologetics how we do that in such a way that it
actually gets through to the people that were trying to get through to.
And I think what struck me was that both sides were just really talking
past each other here. That Christians are shouting condemnation and
saying the same trite phrases love the sinner, hate the sin over
and over again without any real consideration of whats actually
happening in the community, what people actually think, how that
message is actually settling with them.
So the idea kind of came about after the Supreme Court ruled that
they were not going to hear any of the cases from the lower courts
that had thrown out these individual states notions of overturning gay
marriage bans within those states.
[WG]: Matt, are you hopeful that this kind of non-confrontational
search for a solution can help challenge the us-against-them
mentality that seems to defne the culture wars?
[MS]: I think so. I think its incumbent upon me and other gay
Christians to sort of help defne this middle ground, which is what Ive
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seen as the result of the fundraiser that I started and of an initiative
that Im working with called Evangelicals for Marriage Equality, is that
there are very few people actually in this space. There are very few
gay people who are trained in bibliology, that have the hermeneutical
tools, that speak Hebrew and Greek, that can go into churches and
work with pastors and church communities and make things better.
And there are very few gay people that have spoken out that Ive
heard from who are actively involved in their faith and the gay
community. So theres just such a tiny overlap, and frankly, at some
point it falls on us, as gay Christians, to really kind of bridge this
divide because youre right: its absolutely us-versus-them, and the
question of how we build a bridge between the two communities is an
important one.
Its important, Welton, because gay Evangelical kids kill themselves at
rates eight times higher than any other at-risk gay youth. And what
does the church have to say about that? You know, the church can
keep repeating the same trite phrases over and over again about,
Love the sinner, hate the sin; but the gay kids in its body in this
body of Christ are killing themselves. Because parents have nothing
to say other than hate for their children. And so were really trying to
fgure out a way to reach out to Christians coming from a perspective
of homosexuals and say, The messaging isnt working. Its just
causing tragedy; how do we start to bridge this divide.
[WG]: Well I think what youve just said, in itself, is actually an
important part of the strategy, and that is that there are a lot of people
who sit back and look at the situation and want to approach it only
ideologically, and they fail to see the consequences of that mean-
spirited dialogue that its actually costing lives.
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[MS]: Thats right. Its costing lives, and I think its also fundamentally
devaluing gay people as real people, as real, whole people. Because
Christians can once again sit back and say all they want that
marriage is a religious institution; the fact of the matter is that its also
a civil institution. Whether Christians like or not, there is such a thing
as civil marriage, and if youre going to ofer it to heterosexual people,
you must also ofer it to gay people.
And so I think this confusion that I see in the Christian community of,
what is a marriage and why does that matter, from a faith perspective
versus a legal or civil perspective is whats driving a lot of this hatred.
So if people could just get right in their minds, Look, we currently
allow Muslims and Jews and people of every creed and kind and
color to participate in this civil institution of marriage - though they
would not meet the standard of what we believe, as Christians, the
standard of a Christian marriage would be but we allow them to be
civilly married. We dont protest, we dont get angry when people who
dont follow Jesus get married. Were only doing it for this group of
people that are homosexual. And the question is, why cant you just
apply the same standard to civil marriage to gay people as you apply
to everyone else that doesnt qualify for what you view as a Christian
standard for marriage?
[WG]: Well, that is an approach that Ive been commending for a long
time, because honestly, the question about support for same-sex
marriage in the United States is not a question at all about whether
youre a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; its a question of whether or
not youre a good American and want to see the Constitution apply to
everybody.
[MS]: Thats right. And the question actually is one of faith: what does
Christ teach us to do when people disagree with us? Legislate
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against them? Tell them we hate them? No. Were talking about a
savior who got on the foor and washed the feet of Judas moments
before Judas betrayed him! And Christ knew that was coming. So in
what world could we imagine that same Jesus going into the Kleins
bakery today and telling them not to bake a cake for those lesbians?
Its an outrage to the teaching of Jesus Christ.
[WG]: So Matt, what kind of responses have you received so far since
you went public with this idea?
[MS]: You know, its been a very wide range. The gay community has
certainly I think both communities, actually have had a split
response. You see a lot of people who are tired of the anger and
frustration and hate, and who want to do something and contribute
and send a positive message and really start to build these bridges.
But you see a lot of people in the gay community feel fairly strongly
that Im helping homophobes; that Im defending homophobia; Im an
apologist for homophobia and that I shouldnt be spending any money
helping people that discriminated. I should be taking that money
instead and spending it on other things.
And from the Christian view, you have this idea that were heathens
and we have quote-unquote sold out to faggotry and our money is
dirty, and that I am the father of Satan, someone called me, for trying
to use the word and teaching of Christ against other Christians, and
this is all just deception and confusion. So you really see the claws
start to come out.
I think that means that Im onto something here. I think that means
that were doing the thing that Christ taught us, that Martin Luther
King so preached about in his time, which is: in the very moment that
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you can destroy your enemy, you dont do it. Because were not in the
business of destroying people; we dont want to see people sufer. We
just want to see the erosion of evil systems, and we just want to see
the erosion of hatred; and build a happier, healthier world in which all
Americans can live as they wish to live.
[WG]: Yeah. Earlier in this interview, you mentioned Evangelicals for
Marriage Equality. Matt, I know youre on the board of advisors for this
new non-proft, working with our friend Brandan Robertson of the
Revangelical Movement. Tell us a little bit about what youre doing
with Evangelicals for Marriage Equality.
[MS]: Well, our big initiative right now, and I hope everyone would be
willing, whos listening, to help us out with it is, were trying to have
this topic of civil marriage equality for gay people brought up in the
Southern Baptist Convention, and were just a few hundred signatures
short. So what were asking people to do is go to our website at
Evangelicals4Equality.com and sign our petition, which basically just
says that youre raising your voice with us; that youd like for the topic
to be brought to discussion. Simply that. These are the types of
interventions that were trying to create, which is really just a space
for dialogue. Not forcing anything down anyones throat, but really just
going into Evangelical spaces and bringing up this theme of civil
marriage equality.
[WG]: The Conference of the Ethics and Religious Liberty
Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention is coming up right
away next week, as a matter of fact. The gathering of signatures is
taking place right now. The deadline is October 27
th
that is probably
a day or two after you hear this show - this coming Monday. So Matt,
tell our listeners why it is so important for them to sign onto this
statement by Monday, and tell them how to do it, please.
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[MS]: Absolutely. So, its important because its time for the Christian
faith, for the church of Jesus Christ, to recognize the full identity of all
Christians. And its time that we take the teachings of Jesus Christ
and live them out which is to love our neighbor as ourself, without
asking the question of do they deserve it or not. The question is not
one of merit. We dont love people because they deserve it; we love
people because Christ loved us frst without merit. And so in that vein,
were asking all Christians and especially at this moment Southern
Baptists to come to the table with us and have a conversation about
what that looks like, and about how we treat people equally as fellow
citizens of a country. And wed ask for your support as listeners to
help us do that in a more efective way by raising our voices together.
And the right way to do that is to go on the Evangelicals for Marriage
Equality website, and like I said, you can fnd it at
Evangelicals4Equality.com, and theres a big green button that says,
Sign Here, which is to sign your agreement with our statement and
with our petition to the Southern Baptist Convention to allow us to
bring the point up for discussion at their conference.
[WG]: And I want to join that and afrm what Matt has said, and
encourage those of you who are faithful listeners to our program to do
this. Signing on is not that difcult; its something that Im sure is of
interest to all of you who listen to this show, and its something thats
very benefcial that you can do right now and in your own place of
business or home.
[MS]: Could I quickly add, if youd like to support the sending of a
message of love in the face of discrimination to the Klein family, wed
ask that you go to rally.org/this-is-love. Again thats rally.org/this-is-
love, and there you can either send a message of support or love to
the Klein family, tell them that youre praying for them and their
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children, or you can actually make a donation if thats something that
youd be interested in prayerfully considering.
[WG]: Thank you. Im glad you added that.
Matt Stohlandske is a member of the advisory board for the new
nonproft Evangelicals for Marriage Equality. Well link to the website
from stateofbelief.com. Matts recent Washington Post column is
titled, Im a gay rights activist. I want to give $150,000 to someone
who opposes gay marriage.
Matt, were going to want to follow up on this, and in the meantime,
well make arrangements to do that, and do that with thanks to you for
being with us on State of Belief today and being so aggressive in
getting out this message.
[MS]: Thank you so much, and peace and grace and many thanks to
you and all of your listeners for hearing me out.

Matt Stohlandske
Matt is a Senior Research and Teaching Fellow at The Harvard
Kennedy School and David Rockefeller Center for Latin American
Studies, Manager of the Recupera Chile project, co-founder of
the Sinapis Group and a board member of Evangelicals for Marriage
Equality. Hes a graduate of Redeemer Theological Seminary
(GCCS), the Harvard Kennedy School (MPA) and the University of
Texas (BBA, MPA) and he has completed doctoral research and
coursework (but is currently on leave) at Oxford University.
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Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy

Author of more than 20 books, including First Freedom First: A
Citizens Guide to Protecting Religious Liberty and the Separation of
Church and State, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy leads the national
non-partisan grassroots and educational organization Interfaith
Alliance and serves as Pastor for Preaching and Worship at
Northminster (Baptist) Church in Monroe, Louisiana.
In addition to being a prolifc writer, Dr. Gaddy hosts the weekly State
of Belief radio program, where he explores the role of religion in the
life of the nation by illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in America,
while exposing and critiquing both the political manipulation of religion
for partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of government
for sectarian purposes.
Dr. Gaddy provides regular commentary to the national media on
issues relating to religion and politics. He has appeared on MSNBCs
The Rachel Maddow Show and Hardball, NBCs Nightly News and
Dateline, PBSs Religion and Ethics Newsweekly and The Newshour
with Jim Lehrer, C-SPANs Washington Journal, ABCs World News,
and CNNs American Morning. Former host of Morally Speaking on
NBC afliate KTVE in Monroe, Louisiana, Dr. Gaddy is a regular
contributor to mainstream and religious news outlets.
While ministering to churches with a message of inclusion, Dr. Gaddy
emerged as a leader among progressive and moderate Baptists.
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Among his many leadership roles, he is a past president of the
Alliance of Baptists and has been a 20-year member of the
Commission of Christian Ethics of the Baptist World Alliance. His past
leadership roles include serving as a member of the General Council
of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, President of Americans United
for Separation of Church and State, Chair of the Pastoral Leadership
Commission of the Baptist World Alliance and member of the World
Economic Forums Council of 100. Rev. Gaddy currently serves on
the White House task force on the reform of the Ofce of Faith Based
and Neighborhood Partnerships.
Prior to the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist
Convention (SBC), Dr. Gaddy served in many SBC leadership roles
including as a member of the conventions Executive Committee from
1980-84 and Director of Christian Citizenship Development of the
Christian Life Commission from 1973-77.
Dr. Gaddy received his undergraduate degree from Union University
in Jackson, Tennessee and his doctoral degree and divinity training
from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville,
Kentucky.

State of Belief Radio

State of Belief is based on the proposition that religion has a positive
and healing role to play in the life of the nation. The show explains
and explores that role by illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in
America the most religiously diverse country in the world while
exposing and critiquing both the political manipulation of religion for
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partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of government for
sectarian purposes.
Each week, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy ofers listeners critical
analysis of the news of religion and politics, and seeks to provide
listeners with an understanding and appreciation of religious liberty.
Rev. Gaddy tackles politics with the frm belief that the best way to
secure freedom for religion in America is to secure freedom from
religion. State of Belief illustrates how the Religious Right is wrong
wrong for America and bad for religion.
Through interviews with celebrities and newsmakers and feld reports
from around the country, State of Belief explores the intersection of
religion with politics, culture, media, and activism, and promotes
diverse religious voices in a religiously pluralistic world.
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