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DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND

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NATURAL RESOURCES

ADVISORY BOARD MEETING

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Location:

State Capitol Auditorium

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600 Dexter Avenue,

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Montgomery, Alabama

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Date:

May 16, 2009

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Time:

9:08 a.m.

Before:

Victoria M. Castillo, CCR #17

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CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

With that,

I'd like to call the meeting to order.

16th, 2009 meeting of the Conservation Advisory

Board will come to order.

everyone to Montgomery.

of you were able to be here today.

Mr. Bill Hatley.

The Board is glad that all

Mr. Hatley -MR. HATLEY:

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I would like to welcome

The invocation will be given by

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The May

Thank you.

Let us

pray.

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Our Father, we thank you for this day

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and all of its glory, and we thank for life and all

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of the wonders that you provide.

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you would bless every person that is gathered here

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today, and may the actions of this Board be

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acceptable in thy sight.


For these things we ask in Jesus

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Christ's name and for His sake.

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Amen.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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Now we pray that

Thank you,

Mr. Hatley.
For the next order of business, I'd
like to introduce the Conservation Advisory Board.
Before I introduce them, I want to

recognize two of the past Advisory Board members

that have just served their cycle and turned off

the Board.

don't know if either of them were able to make it

today.

Lewis Coles and Johnny Johnson -- I

We've got very nice plaques for both

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of them and both of them had long dedicated service

with the Board during the last six years, and we

certainly appreciate their service to the Board and

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what they did for the Board.

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these plaques accordingly.


From District 1 we have Ross Self and

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Bill Hatley.

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District 2 -If you-all will raise your hand, Ross

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We will get them

and Bill.
From District 2 is representative,

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one of our new Board members, of Mr. Grady.

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Hartzog -- please raise your hand.

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Mr. Hartzog may be a new member of

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the Conservation Advisory Board, however he's no

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stranger to wildlife and conservation efforts.

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has served as a board member for Forever Wild, Land

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Trust, and a director of Ducks Unlimited, and

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Executive Board member of AWF, and was awarded the

2002 Governor's Wildlife Conservation Award.

Grady, we're happy to have you on the

Board with us.

know you will bring a lot to the Board.

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I think you will bring a lot -- I

District 3 is represented by Grant


Lynch -- Grant.
District 4 is represented by
Mr. George Harbin, who had some medical issues and
is not in attendance today.
District 5 is represented by Raymond

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Jones and Dr. Warren Strickland -- Raymond and

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Dr. Strickland.

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District 6 is represented by myself.

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District 7 is represented by

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Dr. Wayne May -- Dr. May.


And by our other newly appointed
board member, Mr. Brock Jones -- Brock.
Mr. Jones is also not a stranger to

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conservation issues.

He's an avid outdoorsman,

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owning timber and hunting properties in Greene and

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Wilcox County.

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Board, the Children's Hands-On Museum Board, and

He serves on the American Red Cross

the Greene County Historical Board.


And I happened to have a nice dinner

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with Brock last night, and let me tell you, he's

going to bring a lot to this Board.

we -- we welcome your service too, Brock.

So I think

Thank you to all the board members

for your service and the efforts you give to the

Advisory Board.

The next order of business of is

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approval of the March 7th, 2009 Advisory Board

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minutes.
Are there any changes to these

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minutes?

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We have a motion and second.

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All in favor?
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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passed.

The minutes

The minutes stand approved as read.


The next order of business is the

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public hearing.

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please come to the microphone and give your name

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and the subject you wish to speak on.

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When you hear your name called,

I will remind you that you may only


speak at the time that you are called and that any

interference with any of the speakers will not be

tolerated.
Okay, our first speaker will be

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Wynnton Melton.
MR. MELTON:

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Geneva County.

Board.

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Thank you, Mr. Moultrie.

Thank you

I've been to the microphone many

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I'm Wynnton Melton,

times, but I'm coming to you today from a different


perspective altogether.

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Actually I'm the mayor of Geneva,

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Alabama, and I also come here to salute Officer

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Hendron.

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be there that day, to see the devastation from the

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threat of this devastation.

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You had to have been on the front line,

We did lose eleven people.

It

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could've have been many, many more.

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an absolute killing frenzy.

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everything that moved, and he was very, very well

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armed -- much better armed than our officers.

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The guy was in

He was shooting

I can tell you today though that

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Geneva Police Department all have assault riffles

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in their cars.

We do not need to have our officers

out there with handguns to face the arsenal that

they may be facing on any daily basis.


But Officer Hendron was heroic,

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deserving of every accolade that you can give him,

and there's no question in my mind had the fellow

gotten into (inaudible) which employs about 600

people -- with two assault rifles, you would have

seen mass, mass murder.


I hope and pray that none of you ever

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have to go through a day like we did in Geneva

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County, March 9th.

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there's no safer place to be in this world than

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sitting on your front porch on (inaudible) Street

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in Sampson, Alabama, and that's where six of these

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innocent victims lost their lives.

I remind each person here that

None of us are immune, none of us are

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exempt, none of us are sheltered.

We cannot live

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in fear.

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never be governed by these threats or this fear.

We can always respect danger.

We can

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But it's a very comforting feeling to

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know that we have law enforcement people out there,

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like our many good conservation officers, people

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that put their lives on the line every day for us,

and it makes life a little more comfortable and a

little easier for each of us.


So I join with you in our salute to

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Joel -- wherever you are, Joel -- Geneva County

appreciates you so much.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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Thank you,

Mr. Melton.
The next speaker will be Danny

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Thank you.

Chandler.
MR. CHANDLER:

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Thank you,

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Commissioner Moultrie.

Thank you for the

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opportunity to come here this morning.


Steve (inaudible) was supposed to

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give this presentation this morning, and he's in

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Hawaii with a new grandbaby.

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with us, so they asked me.

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(inaudible) since I was in the 9th grade English

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class, so it's going to be kind of hard this

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morning.

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So he could not be

I haven't given

Thank you, Commissioner.

We came

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here this morning and questioned a commercial

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fisherman on Lake Martin -- excuse me, Lake Yates

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in Elmore and Tallapoosa County be stopped.

Lake

Yates is a less than 2,000 acre impoundment.

has only three main tributaries that dig into it.

It's a long and narrow lake.

It

The thing is that a 2,000 acre

impoundment just cannot coexist in commercial

fishing and recreational catfishing, and we have a

lot of children and a lot of retired adults that

fish that lake.

when the commercial fishing starts on the lake,

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And it just -- after May and June

there's no more catfish.

It's just ended.

And we have such a hard time.

They

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put in these big box traps and catch all the fish

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out, mainly channel catfish -- and the ones in the

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two-pound class.

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And many families enjoy the fishing

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on Lake Yates, and it's a family-oriented

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business -- I mean and -- but we're not against

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commercial fishing.

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that's large enough to accept commercial fishing.

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But we do ask the Commission to take into

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consideration that -- a 2,000 acre impoundment.

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We're not against anything

Saugahatchee Creek is the only creek


on that lake that maintains a healthy population of

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catfish.

In the spring and summer that's where

they all go.

Channahatchee Creek, the other two tributaries that

feed into Lake Yates, they are not suited for

catfish.

why -- I am not a conservationist enough to tell

you why.

Saugahatchee Creek is just about the only creek

that has catfish in it.

The other two, Coon Creek and

They just don't like it.

I don't know

But I do know that they don't -- that

And after these box traps put in

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(inaudible) catfish are the only thing you still

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catch.

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They're no bigger than your hand.


And with the amount of retirees and

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young people that fish that lake, that fish also

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from the bank -- as well as catfish fishing in

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boats, it just widens the fishing up on Lake Yates.

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So we ask you to at least do a study

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to determine if a 2,000 acre impoundment is large

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enough to handle commercial catfishing and

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recreational fishing.

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And like I said, we're not against

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commercial fishing.

But when it infringes on the

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recreational fishing in that way, then we are

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against it.

And you've received a petition that

we've got, and I think that Steve (inaudible) has

already brought that in and you-all have looked

over it in the Wildlife and Fishery Division, and

we ask that you-all stop the commercial catfishing

on Lake Yates.
Thank you.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Corky, do any of your people want to

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Thank you.

speak to that right now?

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MR. PUGH:

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would like to do is bring a report back to the

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Board at the next meeting and get some input from

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our fishery biologists and by our enforcement.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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great.

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meeting.

That would be

We would love to get that at the next

The next speaker would be Mr. Avery

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Mr. Chairman, what we

Bates.
MR. BATES:

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My name is Avery

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Bates.

I am vice president of Organized Seafood

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Association, tend to stay around Mobile County and

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Baldwin County areas.


We feed many hundreds of thousands

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and millions of people with our seafoods.

to first thank, Mr. Vernon Melton and the

Commissioner for signing an extended period of time

that we can fish because of the bad weather.

we're still having bad weather down there.

And

Fisherman are having a hard time.

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We want

Like many recreational fishermen, they're having a

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hard time getting into the areas they need to go to

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catch their species of fish.


But we've got another -- I think in

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June -- the 12th, or something like that

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(inaudible) has extended that, and I know that

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there's going to be some opposition to that.


But first of all, we want to continue

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to feed Alabama wild seafoods to this state and

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this country.

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that by continuing to make regulations that would

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let us continue to do that -- not closing areas.

And you-all can have a big part of

You can put certain quotas and stuff,

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but these seafoods belong to everybody in the

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state.

And the only way you can buy them on our

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market is through us (inaudible) -And the law of the state of Alabama

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does allow us to fish these areas.

All lakes,

bays, bayous, streams belong to all the people in

the state, and the gulf beaches.

them like that.

We want to keep

And while I am up here, I would like

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for some of the new members to know that in 924,

Part B, it says Department of Conservation and

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Natural Resources made by order to do and make the

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public decide of the manner of taking camping at

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the time which is designated the places for which

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seafood may or may not be taken or caught during

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certain periods of the year, or entirely as it may

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deem to be for the best interest of the seafood

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industry.

Now, that's a big statement.


We want to do what's right and what's

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best.

So thank you very much for doing what's

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best, Vernon, by extending it out.

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things that we see like devastating weather,

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hurricanes, we work with Vernon and got some

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extension, not only for the Feds -- Feds let us do

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that.

And any future

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But these areas that they want to

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close just because we're commercial fishermen,

we've got quotas that can be implemented so they're

not over-fished.

mass size.

want to keep feeding you-all good beneficial

products.

We want to keep a healthy stock, but we

Don't put us out of business.


Thank you very much.

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We've got different things --

you-all new members.

Want to welcome

Keep us in mind when you make

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any future regulations.

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business.

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survive.

Don't put us out of

Don't put us at a point where we cannot


We supply a lot of food, a lot of jobs.
Our oyster industry, totally

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devastated.

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the mend.

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industry, we have to go to another segment.

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Keep in mind, when we leave one

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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We're in

Thank you very much.

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I want you-all to know that.

Thank you,

Mr. Bates.
The next speaker is Barry Estes.
MR. ESTES:

Good morning,

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Mr. Chairman, Board.

My name is Barry Estes.

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the president of Bowhunters of Alabama.

I'm

I'm here

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to speak for those people.


I know there's a topic coming up about

extending the youth weekend.

wonderful.

Everything's going great.

of children all across the state -- Archery

Assistance Program introducing kids to the

outdoors.

everything goes well.

I know we support a lot

I think it's a wonderful idea, so I hope

The next speaker will be Anthony


Fillingim.

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MR. FILLINGIM:

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How are you doing, Mr. Moultrie?

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Thank you,

Mr. Estes.

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We need to get more kids involved.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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I think that's

Thank you-all.

I came up in February and presented

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the Board with a position about trying to change

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some zoning for the dove hunting regulations.

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we found out the Feds set those zones, and they can

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only be changed every five years.

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And

So we have come back and revised our

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request, and what we're asking for is to give us

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some hunting time in the southern zones, the first

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part of that county.

It may only be from beginning

this Saturday through the following Sunday, which

would amount to nine days.

Board not open the second season in the south zone

too late into October, run it on over to November

and then late December through late January.

We are asking that the

I have sent out some copies of the

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petition.

I want to make sure that everybody here

understands I'm not up here for me personally.

The

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major landowners of Baldwin County, some of them in

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Mobile County, have asked me if I would come up

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here and represent them.

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major landowners of this area -- the Kizers, the

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Childress', the Cortays, the Higbys, the Garlands,

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the Betos, the Bonners, Children, Halls, and

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Bishops, the Noltes, the (inaudible) the Gilberts

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-- these people have all signed this petition.

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There's nothing on this petition but major, major

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landowners.

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major farmers.

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So I am up here for the

These are not dove hunters.

These are

And this is their request, and

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they've asked me if I would come up here, present

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this to you-all, and represent them, and it is an

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honor to do that for them.

I just didn't want you

to think this is something that I personally came

up with (inaudible) --

At the beginning of September, there

were literally thousands and thousands of birds in

these areas.

dove season comes in, we have to scramble to have

enough birds to shoot.

to shoot these birds eight or ten days at the first

Towards the first of October when our

So we want the opportunity

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part of the year while they're present.

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that, we'll -- we'll deal with it.

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with farmers.

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can have some quality hunts.

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After

We will work

They will work with us to where we

We're asking for eight or ten days


the first part of the north zone season.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Fillingim, I believe Dr. May has a question.
DR. MAY:

You made the mention of

the landowners' request.

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MR. FILLINGIM:

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DR. MAY:

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requesting this if they're not dove hunters?

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Yes, sir.

Just why are they

MR. FILLINGIM:

I didn't say they

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didn't dove hunt.

They do have an interest because people do rent

their land to hunt.

harvest the crops.

They see these birds just in

great congregation.

And by the time our season

comes in October 4th, there's no birds there to

shoot.

birds migrate.

They have the crops.

They

There's 75 percent or 80 percent of these

DR. MAY:

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They are the major landowners.

Where are they

migrating to?
MR. FILLINGIM:

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My understanding

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from the research that we've done, Dr. May, and

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we -- we've gotten most of them out of the Mourning

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and Doving Hunting Management in Alabama, the

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Journal of Wildlife Management, they migrate to the

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west, down the coast, on over into Mexico and South

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America.

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I'm not a specialist.

All I can tell

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you is what I've read.

There were some great

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articles in the dove hunting conservation magazines

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that I wish I could reproduce.

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them that I had read, but our understanding is they

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go down the coast and into South America.

I couldn't relocate

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DR. MAY:

And I don't know if

they realize it or not, but 60 to 70 percent of all

harvests are within the first ten days of the

season.
MR. FILLINGIM:

But what

percentage is that of the amount of birds

available?
DR. MAY:

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70 percent of all the

that we have in the fall to hunt are birds that

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have hatched that year.

So what we're doing is

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we're killing all of our young birds off by hunting

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early.

Now, that's a fact.


MR. FILLINGIM:

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Dr. May,

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respectfully, very respectfully, I disagree.

And

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no disrespect intended because we don't get to hunt

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the birds that are there.

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leave our area.

These birds migrate and

We never hunt.

The -- I mean, Dr. May, I have

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literally walked up to a farm and witnessed six and

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7,000 birds there one week.

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there wouldn't be 400, and they're not in that area

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to be hunted.

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And two weeks later

These farmers have watched these

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birds breed and raise and hatch, and our

understanding is there's up to four to six

hatchings annually.

Sometimes they will even hatch on over into

November and December, that these birds that are

born in early March are actually capable of

reproducing that same year.


DR. MAY:

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They are raised there.

Well, if we destroy 70

percent of our birds, 70 percent of the ones we are

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harvesting are the ones that's hatched this year.

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And we kill 60 to 70 percent the first ten days

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where we are hunting, we are destroying our base

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for the next year.

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to three years.
MR. FILLINGIM:

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The doves only live, what, one

One to three

years.
DR. MAY:

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And most of them just a

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year.

So that means none of the dove population

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that we have that produced this year will likely be

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here last year.

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hatch, what we have this year.

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destroy them the first day of the season, we're

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backing up.

So we've got to count on the


If we go ahead and

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MR. FILLINGIM:

Let me ask you

this to clarify.

the birds that are harvested are harvested in the

first season, not 60 percent of the total

population.

Just 60 percent -DR. MAY:

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60 percent of what's

harvested is harvested within the first ten days.


MR. FILLINGIM:

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My understanding is 60 percent of

I understand

that, but that's not 60 percent of the total


population.
DR. MAY:

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Well, if 70 percent of

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that is what has hatched this year, it's a very

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large percentage of young birds.

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MR. FILLINGIM:

We never

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harvested any of them in that area.

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That's our point.

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They leave.

These birds that grow on these farms,

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that are hatched out on these farms, but by the

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time our season comes in, somebody's harvesting

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them way down the road that's not in south Alabama.

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DR. MAY:

That's probably the

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biggest complaint that I hear all over the state,

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even in north Alabama, just the cold weather,

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moving in, move out.

They tend to blame it on the

cold weather.

Alabama, they don't know what happens.

You blame it on the season.

Central

I will tell you what happens.

The

neighbor that's top sowing is feeding a little

later top sowing than that (inaudible) birds do not

stay in the same place that's not feeding them.


MR. FILLINGIM:

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here.

They leave.

These farmers are millet

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farmers and peanut farmers.

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the millet, the birds are there.

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food on the ground.

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There's food

And when they harvest


They leave with

They don't stay.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Mr. Hatley,

you got a comment, too.

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MR. HATLEY:

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Skeeter or to Dr. May, but I'd like for someone

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from your department to talk on this, if they

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would, and give us some insight as to it.

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sit here and argue the points of this all day, but

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I'd like to hear from you guys.

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Yes, not directly to

We can

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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Mr. Fillingim, I've got a question before Gary

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talks for the Board, information.

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If the early majority of doves leave

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those fields and we know the doves (inaudible) do

you-all see another influx of doves during the

season, and when is that, and is it multiple or

single?

MR. FILLINGIM:

It's usually in

late October when we start seeing another influx of

birds come in.

have a heavy population of birds, later in January

And then on over into February we

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and February.

But it is generally later on over

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into October and November before we see.


Mr. Dan, a lot of that absolutely

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would depend on how (inaudible) of the cold weather

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moving in on the northern states, of course, and

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pushes the northern birds down to that area.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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going to address that?


MR. MOODY:

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Gary, you

Thank you,

Mr. Chairman.
This has been an ongoing discussion

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point for several years, and we continue to support

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what the Fish and Wildlife service provides to us

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and follow their line of logic and reasoning and

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follow the procedural recommendation.


We have a framework that's offered to

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us that we can harvest birds at the beginning of

September 1 going through in -- whatever the last

day is -- I forgot what off the top of my head.

We don't think there's any biological

(inaudible) biological (inaudible) used that season

any time within those days, north zone or south

zone.

It's just a matter of public use and what

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the public wants in those areas.

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don't have a biological reason for saying that.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

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And we want -- we

Dr. May

again.
DR. MAY:

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I noticed Mr. Hayden

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had written this letter where you-all stand behind

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what's your biological, and all the reports that

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he -- he mentioned from Georgia to the guy that

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wrote the ones that it's all right to hunt birds,

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except doves, in September that doesn't have any

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effect on the nesting.

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articles that you-all go by refer to the effects of

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hunting on doves nesting and egg-laying in

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September.

In fact, both of these

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That's not where the big problem is.

The big problem is we are losing all the effects

that September has on August nesting and hatching,

and I still -- I have a report that I passed out

again today that I passed out in February.

shows that we are destroying all of the August

hatch, and that's our base that I said before.

basis for the next year comes from this hatch.

Most of the doves that hatch this year are not

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And it

Our

going to be here next year.


MR. MOODY:

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You're right.

Most

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of the doves that hatch this year are not going to

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be here next year because most of the doves are

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only going to live one year to start.

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short-lived bird.

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bird, and it doesn't matter whether they're hunted

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or not, they're not going to be here next year.

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They're a

That's just the biology of the

DR. MAY:

But my argument is, you

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said it can't matter whether you start hunting them

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in October or September -- it does.

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the -- wait until October till all of the ones that

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hatch in August have a chance to survive, if you

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hunt them in early the first weekend in September,

If you give

26

they don't stand a chance because they're not going

to get out of the nest off the ground.


MR. MOODY:

The studies have

shown that I am familiar with -- and I'm not

familiar with what you're talking about there -DR. MAY:

6
7

always refer to is why you do this.


MR. MOODY:

8
9

It's the one you-all

I'm not -- I'm just

not sure which study you're talking about is for

10

the sparrow.

But the studies have indicated that

11

the framework that we're given to choose a season

12

does not have an overall negative impact on the

13

population of the bird.

Not arguing about any one

14

individual or anything.

I'm talking about the

15

population of the bird does not have a negative

16

impact.
DR. MAY:

17

Well, these reports

18

that Mr. Hayden referred to refers to the nesting,

19

and it refers to the national average of what

20

September hunt would put into the population, which

21

is very little.

22

go -- mention that there's nothing but fledglings

23

they destroy into October and even into late July,

I will agree.

But they won't

27

by early September hunting.


MR. MOODY:

I know that when the

framework was set up -- and I cannot quote you the

study, but I know there was a study done and our

staff participated going back several years ago,

even back into the '70s where we -- where there was

an interest in September nesting, what additive

effect did that have on that overall population.

And it was determined at that time that it was

10

negligible and did not -- hunting during that time

11

frame did not affect the overall population.

12

DR. MAY:

I disagree with you.

13

That's not what it refers to.

14

September nesting and (inaudible) great effect on

15

it.

16

will refer you to the last notice where we got that

17

we could have a 70-day season and 15-bag limit.

18

They suggested that we do away with the two

19

seasons.

20

limit, they said we should suggestively do away

21

with two shooting zones, and just have a plain

22

70-day season for the whole state.

23

It refers to the

Because it's not much nesting going on, and I

If we're going to go to a 70-day, 15-bag

MR. MOODY:

They would also like

28

for us to have one zone, too.

DR. MAY:

MR. MOODY:

Have one what?


Have one zone -- they

would like for us not to have a north zone.


DR. MAY:

Well, that's what I'm

saying.

going to shoot 70 days, we shot 110 days last year,

and I think 81 of them was on different days from

different zones.

10

They don't want us to do that.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

If we're

Dr. May,

11

Gary, I spoke with the Commissioner briefly this

12

morning before, thinking this issue would come up,

13

and the Commissioner is under the impression that

14

he does agree with Dr. May that that biological

15

data is correct and we are killing young doves, but

16

he's also concerned that the states surrounding us

17

are harvesting those young doves.

18

what he would like to see done, if we could do some

19

kind of impact study with the surrounding states to

20

see if we could get them in concurrence with us

21

that, yes, this is negatively affecting the

22

population, then something could be done.

23

felt that if the surrounding states would not join

And if we --

But he

29

us, then the influence we would have upon that may

not be felt as much.

But I think that would probably be a

good direction for this -- us to go.

the checkpoint too that he does agree with Dr. May,

but he also he sees what's going on with the

surrounding states.

Do you-all concur with that?

DR. MAY:

But sort of

I agree with it 100

percent, but I also believe because of what

10

Mississippi and Tennessee does that if we can use

11

and have a lot more doves than they do, we're going

12

to go (inaudible) just like you've got good food,

13

restaurant people are going to come.

14

sell licenses to out-of-state people because we got

15

more doves to shoot.

And we can

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

16
17

Dr. Strickland, did you have a comment also?

18

have the floor.


DR. STRICKLAND:

19

You

Yes,

20

Mr. Chairman, and actually you addressed the some

21

of the discussion that I was going to bring forth

22

to the members.

23

and we've had an early September dove hunt for 50

You know, I grew up in Arkansas,

30

years.

The dove hunting is better in Arkansas now

than it's ever been.


So I concur with Dr. May.

It's

certainly sound biological principles, but the

reality is that it really doesn't seem to have, you

know, significant effect on the dove population.

One of the things that really concerns me

personally about having a late dove season, I mean

it's obvious -- I've heard (inaudible) from many in

10

northern Alabama in September.

11

are not there.

I know the birds

The thing is that a lot of kids and

12
13

sportsmen their first exposure to the outdoor

14

experience is dove hunting.

15

experience.

16

there.

17

over again that in late September and October the

18

birds are just not there.

I want them hunting when the birds are

And you know, we've heard this over and

MR. MOODY:

19
20

I want it to be a good

They are gone

(inaudible) -DR. STRICKLAND:

21
22

they are just not there.

23

to bring forth.

I agree, but

But that's all I wanted

31

1
2
3

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Dr. May, you

have the floor now.


DR. MAY:

I disagree with you

because making a good experience for the

children -- I raised five boys, and I've carried

them on dove hunts.

on a hot afternoon, first weekend in September you

can't give them enough Seven-Up or Coca-Cola to

keep them satisfied (inaudible) the sweat is and

10
11
12

And if I carry them out there

two and three of them are -DR. STRICKLAND:

From running

down the doves they're shooting.

13

DR. MAY:

14

they're wiping the sweat off their -- saying,

15

Daddy, let's go home.

16

experience for them to have.

17

out there when it's a nice fall afternoon and

18

there's plenty of doves going out they can have

19

some good shooting, so I want to point that out.

20

They don't have any --

I don't think it's a good


I want to carry them

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

21

Mr. Fillingim, thank you very much for your

22

comments on this very controversial issue.

23

sure you will see a lot more discussion, maybe even

I am

32

today, from the Board on this and from Mr. Pugh's

division.
Thank you very much.

MR. FILLINGIM:

4
5

all of you-all for your time also.


MR. HARTZOG:

6
7

Can I ask a

question?
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

8
9

I want to thank

Yes,

Mr. Hartzog.
MR. HARTZOG:

10

David, I know the

11

Feds set the regulations and I know the splits and

12

all or the number of splits controlled by the Feds

13

also, so we're only allowed three splits.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

14
15

The next

speaker will be Don Epperson.


MR. EPPERSON:

16

Mr. Chairman and

17

Board, I'm Don Epperson from Franklin County,

18

Alabama.

19

and Winston County to have our turkey season moved

20

to the same as south Alabama.

I brought a petition from Franklin County

We feel this will be -- the land we

21
22

have and the turkeys we have would be beneficial to

23

everybody.

So many people in our county and the

33

western county go down to Wood Creek (inaudible) I

feel like they're putting a lot of pressure on

those (inaudible) bring it up.

thousand names, left more names that, then get the

petition up.

the people up there, and we've been talking about

this for a while, and we thought it was time to

bring this forward and see what we can work out.


Thank you,

Mr. Epperson.
MR. EPPERSON:

11
12

There was tremendous response from

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

9
10

I brought over a

Thank you very

much.

13

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

14

MR. HATLEY:

Mr. Hatley.

Mr. Chairman, I

15

appreciate the words by Mr. Epperson in regards to

16

turkey hunting in Franklin County.

17

appropriate time, I would like to ask the staff to

18

consider his motion or his request, and I concur

19

with what they're trying to do up there.

20

And at the

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

At the

21

appropriate time I will recognize you in a minute

22

to do that, Mr. Hatley.

23

MR. HATLEY:

Thank you.

34

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

1
2

Our next

speaker will be Kenneth Jackson.


MR. JACKSON:

Mr. Moultrie,

Advisory Board Chairmen, Distinguished Advisory

Board Members representing congressional districts

of Alabama, my name is Kenneth Jackson.

community recreation officer for the U.S. Army

Aviation Center of Excellence, Fort Rucker,

Alabama.

I'm a

This week I processed a request to

10
11

Mr. Grady Hartzog, District 2 Advisory Board

12

representative.

13

MR. HARTZOG:

I passed out to all

14

the members a letter from Ken requesting the fall

15

turkey season for Fort Rucker.

16

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

17

Advisory Board find that on their -MR. HARTZOG:

18
19

22
23

Yes, I handed that

out to everybody.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

20
21

All the

Go ahead,

Mr. Hartzog.
MR. HARTZOG:

You know, I talked

to Gary and Corky, and biologically there's no

35

reason why this would not be a good proposal with

and -- and I've talked to Ken extensively, and I

will give you an example of why I feel like this

would be a good thing to do in the fact that -CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Give us a

brief synopsis so that the minutes will reflect

what you're asking to be done.


MR. HARZOG:

8
9

The Fort Rucker Base

encompasses land in Dale and Coffee County.

It's a

10

large military base.

They have their own game

11

wardens.

12

staff.

13

that district.

14

serving this country that -- and I will give you an

15

example.

16

back into Fort Rucker within the next month that

17

didn't get a chance to spring turkey hunt.

18

manage their ground more extensively than most

19

probably -- because they've got check stations

20

where (inaudible) checked out that's open to the

21

public.

22

our country a chance to partake in the sport that

23

they didn't get to because they were (inaudible) --

They have their own game management

They work hand in hand with Bill Gray in


But we've got soldiers that are

I think there's about 150 troops coming

They

It would give those soldiers that serve

36

And I just think that -- I know the

1
2

policy is that that we can't vote on it until this

fall, but we get the ball rolling so that in the

future that those soldiers may partake in the sport

that they were serving our country.


And so basically it's a motion to

6
7

allow fall turkey season in the same realm that the

other counties that are afforded fall turkey.

same limits would apply.

The

The same everything else

10

would apply, but it would afford the Fort Rucker

11

hunting area.

12

letter that Ken served me, and I'd like to see us

13

move forward with that at the next meeting to

14

consider those.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

15
16

Thank you,

Mr. Hartzog.
Does any of the Board have comments

17
18

And you've got the maps in the

on this -- Mr. Hatley.


MR. HATLEY:

19

I just have a

20

question.

If we wanted to enact this this fall, is

21

there not some way that the Commissioner could

22

invoke on -- or staff can invoke an emergency rule

23

to apply to this, Corky.

37

MR. PUGH:

Technically I think we

could, but I would advise against that.

Mr. Hartzog was accurate when he said that

biologically this makes no difference, but this

goes way beyond simple science.

at some folks on this Board who like me are almost

rabid turkey hunters.

the fall season makes no difference, there's one

indisputable fact, and that's that a turkey that's

And I am looking

And even though biologically

10

killed in the fall is not there to gobble in the

11

spring.

12

an adequate amount of time for public input, doing

13

something that creates a different opportunity for

14

harvest on Fort Rucker than exists in the

15

surrounding counties.

And I would be very careful about, without

16

MR. HATLEY:

17

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

18
19
20

Point well made.


In other

comments from Board?


DR. MAY:

Is this just for Fort

Rucker reservation, not Coffee County?

21

MR. JACKSON:

Yes, sir, and we

22

have 47, 50,000 acres of land.

23

Recreation Advisory Board County has fully

Our Outdoor

38

considered this request.

Our two wildlife history

biologists have done the same.

with the entire district office.

We've coordinated

The tough thing about this is we have

4
5

the Spring Gobbler Wounded Warrior again.

lot of requests came for this program.

Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

8
9

Mr. Jackson.

And a

Thank you,

I think you will see the Board wants

10

to do anything for any of our folks that they are

11

serving, but I agree this needs to be reviewed

12

before the next meeting.


Mr. Hartzog, will you handle that

13
14

review, please?
MR. HARTZOG:

15

Yes.

And Ken, it's

16

my understanding the policy has been that in order

17

for the Board generally to consider that -- and

18

like I said, this been brought up to the Board

19

(inaudible) voted on at next meeting that generally

20

they like to have all the county commissioners sign

21

off on it and the probate judge sign off on it, and

22

I think

23

Wild Turkey Federation sign off on it or get some

it would be good if we have the National

39

additional endorsements on it to protect us for

consideration to vote on at the next meeting.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Mr. Hartzog,

I'd probably ask for the Board's opinion to know if

it would be interesting to poll these surrounding

landowners, or some of them, to get their opinion

on them not being able to hunt and the (inaudible)

being allowed to hunt.

interesting to the Board.

I think that would be

The next speaker will be Mike Berry.

10

MR. BERRY:

11

Good morning,

12

Chairman, good morning, Board members.

I'm Mike

13

Berry.

14

Alabama, and we had about 12 hunting clubs that

15

came to our commission and requested us to go on

16

record supporting dog hunting in Macon County.

17

we did that, and you-all got

18

I think in the last meeting, and we were -- and at

19

that time we published this in the paper, you know,

20

to let everybody in the county know that we went on

21

record supporting to dog hunting, and we hadn't had

22

any people come before the Commission since that

23

time and request any different.

I'm a county commissioner in Macon County,

And

a copy of that letter

So I'm just here

40

today again supporting the dog hunters of Macon

County.

And another thing I would like to say

to the Advisory Committee, it looks like in Alabama

we're trying to put too much emphasis on commercial

hunting.

business by letting these big companies come in and

charge big monies to let the people hunt in our

counties, and it's just not fair to the people of

We are putting our local people out of

10

the county.

We need to look after our own citizens

11

before we look after people from other states.


Thank you.

12

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

13
14

Thank you,

Mr. Berry.
The next speaker will be Jay Fenn.

15

MR. FENN:

16

My name is Jay Fenn.

17

I'm from Clayton, Alabama, and I hunt in Barbour

18

County, and I just feel like -- well, I hunt with

19

the Dirt Road Sportsman's Dog Hunting.

20

I needed to come here today to defend us against

21

the speaker and the petition that came up at the

22

last meeting.

23

I felt like

You know, we didn't know anything

41

about the petition.

to me, outlaws, and that's not the way we hunt.

We're not -- that's not what we are.

been hunting there for 20 years, and we're all

hard-working family people that take our kids

hunting.

It made us out to sound like,

I mean, we've

I mean, I don't know where the

problem came up with the petition.

The lady that

spoke lives one mile from me, and in 16 years she's

10

never said a word that we were causing her a

11

problem -- not once.

12

And I just wanted to come today to

13

say that, you know, we're in it for the kids.

14

won't see a truck in our hunting club that doesn't

15

have a kid in it.

16

needed to defend it this morning because it was an

17

allegation brought against us.

18

it was against any other club other than us in

19

Barbour County.

20

club, and I've never been associated with a group

21

of guys any better than these guys that hunt with

22

us in 16, 17 years.

23

You

And you know, I just thought we

And I don't think

It was directed straight at our

And we just -- we have a good time

42

going out there.

We don't want to bother anybody.

And we don't want to upset anybody or keep anybody

else from hunting.


I don't know how many names were on

4
5

the petition, but I know there's a lot of

landowners up there that are on our side on this

thing.
And like I say, we've been hunting

8
9

there 20 years, and the game wardens that are

10

protecting us, I think anybody this -- any of those

11

would verify the integrity of the guys that hunt

12

with us.
I mean, we've been hunting for 20

13
14

years and just hadn't had very few problems, so I

15

just wanted to defend (inaudible) and see if we

16

could keep it like it is.


Thank you.

17

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

18
19

The next

speaker will be Tony Haro.


MR. HARO:

20

My name is Tony Haro,

21

and I'm the transplant that spoke to you folks last

22

meeting.

23

want to try to cut down.

The three minutes went awfully fast, so I


I'm from Dothan, Alabama,

43

and I'm a member of the Red Oak Hunting Club near

New Brockton.
Now, one of the things I want to

3
4

point out or bring up again is there was a

Mr. Gamble that spoke in the February meeting, and

he had brought up a a point that he had attempted

to send a letter or something to the Board about

adopting a formal complaint system and have

resolutions provided for any complaints that are

10

made.

11

lot of frivolous complaints that are made.

12

it's the idea just the more complaints you have

13

against dog hunters, the more grease gets to the

14

axle.

15

further, but I believe that would help take care of

16

a lot of problems that we have.

17

Because I believe we found that there's a


And

So I don't know if you've pursued this any

And just kind of going on with the

18

previous speaker here, evidently he's had some of

19

these baseless complaints that have been made or

20

accusations against dog hunting.

21

copy of the minutes for the February meeting.

22

just to read some of the things -- now, listening

23

to them sitting here, it kind of gets jumbled.

I took and got a


And

But

44

when you read them, there can get to be some real

unreal situations going on.


For instance, if you know anything

3
4

about dog hunting, this person here said that you

can't even walk for recreation down the county road

in front of your house and people are sitting there

50 yards apart, in four-wheel drive trucks.

they take their dogs five miles down the road, turn

them loose on a dirt road, and stake out the road

10

And

five miles away.


Now, I'm kind of new to dog hunting

11
12

having moving down here from Indiana, and that's

13

utterly unreal.

Nobody does stuff like that.

There were some other complaints in

14
15

here that were made by -- we got a neighbor here

16

whose gate was taken off the hinges and thrown onto

17

the side.

18

electric fences, pulling them loose and shorting

19

them out on posts so their dogs don't get burned.

20

We have other people that are taking

Now, is that a real complaint, and

21

can you say that this person that made that

22

complaint is it baseless, or is it real?

23

hear it and don't question it, then if you're

If we

45

wanting to cut out dog hunting, you can do it based

on -- just real quick then.

lost their dog hunting privileges because of

baseless complaints that have been made and we're

not making any real effort to square them away.

Like I say, I'm a transplant down

I hope that no one has

here, and I have one reservation about the south.

And gentlemen, that is that I wasn't born down

here.

And those of you that have been here and

10

have these cultural things and these traditions,

11

for God's sake, let's not be cutting them out.

12

Let's keep them together and keep them going for

13

the kids, so the kids and us old folks can enjoy

14

it.
Thank you.

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

16
17

Thank you,

Mr. Haro.
The next speaker will be Don Knight.

18

MR. KNIGHT:

19

Good morning,

20

gentlemen.

It is almost a pleasure to be here this

21

time, not like usual.

22

morning to thank this Board for meeting with the

23

dog hunters, for trying to work with us, trying to

I come before you this

46

get a permit system that will work, will help in

the problems that the gentleman was just talking

about, the frivolous complaints.


I want the dog hunters to take this

4
5

permit system when it comes up, and I hope the

Board votes it on in to take it as an opportunity,

not as a restraint.
It is an opportunity for to us to

8
9

prove that we're not wrong.

It is also an

10

opportunity for the people on the other side that

11

do have complaints to have accountability of the

12

dog hunting clubs in that area.

13

club, I stand here and tell you that I want you

14

gone.

15

you I want you hunting.

16

If you're a bad

If you're a good club, I stand here and tell

We do not want bad clubs because the

17

good dog hunters take the penalties, and this Board

18

has now taken a step that will be presented today

19

to take charge of this, to make it where we can

20

work on it instead of just doing away with an area,

21

doing away with a county.

22
23

And Mr. Lynch, I want to thank you


for chairing this and setting up the meetings.

The

47

gentleman from (inaudible) is here.

I appreciate

his efforts.

appreciate this Board going to that stand to try to

help and solve these problems and get them to where

we don't have these problems.

I appreciate all effort.

It would be wonderful not to have to

come down here, and maybe this permit system if it

goes into effect, will lead to where the dog

hunting issues are not a problem.


The landowners, we can sit down and

10
11

talk.

And I think this committee has shown that.

12

We will work with you any way we can to help

13

continue dog hunting in the state of Alabama where

14

everybody can be happy.


I thank you.

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

16
17

Mr. Knight.
The next speaker will be Susan

18
19

Thank you,

Morrow.
MS. MORROW:

20

Good morning

21

Chairman, Board members, I am Susan Morrow.

22

in Mobile, and I am a dog hunter and a stalk

23

hunter.

I live

And I'm here today to remind the Board

48

that in March of 2007 I came and talked to you-all

about two dogs had been shot in Choctaw County, and

we never found out who did it.

collar, and I brought you-all all pictures of the

dogs that I found shot in the woods.

I had a busted

And at the last meeting it was

6
7

brought up that you-all were considering doing away

with the dog hunting in Choctaw County.

there.

I hunt

My grandkids hunt there, my kids hunt

10

there, and I would like for you-all to really think

11

about it.

12

and whoever has the problem needs to sit down and

13

talk about it.

14

hunting away.

If it's a problem, then the landowners

But please don't take anymore dog

And I'd also ask that you look at

15
16

again the petition that I brought for adding more

17

dog days to the management area.


Thank you.

18

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

19
20

Ms. Morrow.
The next speaker will be Debra

21
22
23

Thank you,

Nicholson.
MS. NICHOLSON:

Good morning,

49

Board members.

I am Debra Nicholson from Elba,

Alabama, and I'm here today to talk in favor of dog

deer hunting.
I gave a -- they were supposed to

4
5

give each one of you-all a copy of the letter -- a

letter to the editor of (inaudible) where a citizen

of Coffee County wrote disputing that his name --

he had found out that his name was on the petition

and in Coffee County to do away with dog deer

10

hunting.

11

was forged, and I have heard several people say

12

that their name was on there and they didn't sign

13

it.

14

He says he did not sign it, that his name

So I don't know how much faith

15

you-all put in a petition that is presented, but I

16

ask that before you do away with dog deer hunting

17

in Coffee County that you do check out and see if

18

it's legitimate signatures, because I understand

19

there were some names on there more than one time.

20

So I ask that you-all leave dog deer hunting in

21

Coffee County alone.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

22
23

Ms. Nicholson.

Thank you,

50

The next speaker will be John

1
2

Perkins.
MR. PERKINS:

Thank you,

Mr. Chairman, Board members, my name is John

Perkins.

in Tuscaloosa County with Buck Horn Hunting Club

and have for the past 15, 16 years.

I reside in Danville, Alabama, but I hunt

When we lost our dog hunting in

8
9

Tuscaloosa, we found out -- the day we found out

10

was the day that the new rules came out in the

11

Alabama Game and Fishery Regulations.

12

notice.

13

have anybody stand up and say that we have a

14

problem with our hunting club.

15

acres.

16

that there hadn't been a dog that's got on off of

17

our property.

18

brought a petition last meeting from the majority

19

of the landowners around us that have no problems

20

with us dog hunting.

There were no complaints.

There was no

We have yet to

We hunt 10,000

I'm not going to stand here and tell you

There probably has, but we also

But we lost it.

21

I'm here asking that

22

somehow we gain our dog hunting back.

23

drawn on 82.

The line was

If you want -- I've yet to hear

51

anything out Tuscaloosa County period.

like it was all north of us.

at north Tuscaloosa?

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Thank you,

Mr. Perkins.
The next speaker will be Tony Wynn.

MR. WYNN:

8
9

Why not put the line

Thank you.

It seemed

members of the Board.

Good morning, Dan,

I am Tony Wynn, and most of

10

you know me.

Probably getting tired of seeing me

11

come down here, and I am too.


I don't really know anything else to

12
13

ask you.

I've brought you every kind of petition

14

that I know of that might show the interest to our

15

club being given their dog rights back.

16

I would like to say this.

On March

17

9th my father passed away.

He served as a ranger

18

during World War II in the Philippines.

19

know how much hell I'm in with (inaudible) overall

20

of them wore a green beret and (inaudible) we

21

wasn't in Cambodia. But I do know that for the last

22

two years of my dad's life, he didn't get to dog

23

hunt.

I don't

I do know that this Board can change that

52

for me my grandson.

say.

We do want our hunting rights back.


Thank you.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

4
5
6
7

I don't know anything else to

Thank you,

Mr. Wynn.
The next speaker is William Herren.
MR. HERREN:

I'm William Herren,

or Bill most of the time.

But I just say to

Mr. Moultrie and members of the Board I'm here to

10

express my appreciation for the fact that we

11

received a ban in Fayette County on the area where

12

our property is located.

13

And earlier the speaker spoke about

14

turning dogs loose and hunting along the roads five

15

miles away from where they turn them loose.

16

didn't turn them loose that far from us, but they

17

turned them loose frequently on adjoining property

18

with no stand line and no systematic system of

19

hunting to keep the dogs or the game from coming

20

across onto our property.

21

They

Now, I feel like that the Board has

22

been extremely fair.

You have been very patient to

23

hear both sides of the issue in our area, and you

53

took action to best correct.


(Off-record discussion.)

2
3

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

your three minutes has started over.

Thank you, Mr. Hatley.

You may continue.


MR. HERREN:

Mr. Herren,

It's always a

pleasure to come before the Board.

But back to the

people hunting without a system and turning dogs

10

loose, we went to the people.

11

don't run your dogs on the weekend and when our

12

children and when people in the family are working

13

and have an opportunity to hunt.

14

our grandchildren, and our friends, and relatives

15

that are stalk hunting have to have dogs interfere

16

with them three times in one day, these are things

17

that we did.

18

situation, and it appears that the only thing that

19

could have been done was done, and we appreciate

20

what you have done.

21

We asked them --

When our wives,

Everything we do to rectify the

This past season was an exceptionally

22

good season, and we did not have interference.

We

23

had some dogs, but we didn't have people hunting on

54

the road.

We didn't have packs of dogs.

just a straggler as it came through.

It was

So we appreciate again what you've

3
4

done.

Now, our position to begin with was that we

were not opposed to dog hunting.

opposed to the people running dogs on our property

and interfering with our right to hunt, and we

still stand by that.

We were just

Last meeting we heard many people

9
10

from south Alabama with large tracts of property

11

that would run a dog all day and not on somebody

12

else's land.

13

their dogs where they have the property and control

14

their hunts so that they don't interfere with the

15

adjacent neighbors and people in our community.

We do not object to people hunting

Thank you so much for the work that

16
17

you do and for the actions that you take to try to

18

be fair to all sides, involving the game that we

19

have as Natural Resource enforcement people and the

20

people in the situation.

21

you do, and we thank you so much.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

22
23

We appreciate all that

Mr. Herren.

Thank you,

55

The next speaker will be Paul

1
2

Jeffreys.
MR. HARTZOG:

3
4

question?
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

5
6

Could I ask one

Yes,

Mr. Hartzog.
MR. HARTZOG:

Mr. Herren -- and

I'm the new kid on the block, but Fayette is closed

anything west of 43 and north of 18.

10

you're located?

11

MR. HERREN:

12

MR. HARTZOG:

13

Is that where

East of -Are you located in

the closed area of Fayette?


MR. HERREN:

14

I am in the closed

15

-- I am near Highway 13 on County Road 44, County

16

Road 24, and in the area north of the area.


MR. HARTZOG:

17

Have you more or

18

less been aware of what the permit system is going

19

to do?
MR. HERREN:

20

No, sir, I'm not

21

aware of that.

I just say -- in attending meetings

22

for three years, we've talked to people that have

23

that permit systems, and it's my understanding that

56

they don't work all that well.

them working in our area because of the small

acreage.

is two or three, 400 acres.

where we have 660 acres in one area, it's two 40's

wide or either three 40's wide, and it's a mile and

three-quarters long.

deer across it in five minutes, but then run them

(inaudible) if we had a square, that would be in

10

And I don't see

There's no large (inaudible) everything


And then our area

Therefore, a dog can run a

good shape.
But I'm not aware of the details, but

11
12

I've also not talked to (inaudible) because it

13

(inaudible) that area.

14

MR. HARTZOG:

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

16
17

Thank you.
Thank you,

Mr. Herren.
Mr. Jeffreys.

18

MR. JEFFREYS:

Members of the

19

Board, my name is Tom Jeffreys.

20

Detroit, Alabama in Lamar County.

21

ago we came before you-all to ask you-all for a ban

22

on dog deer hunting, and it was granted.

23

have since not had any problems in Lamar County or

I reside in
Several years

And we

57

the surrounding area.


The land holds in our area is small

2
3

tracts, and they are locally family-owned, and

majority of those families like to hunt, and they

like to enjoy the past time.

I try to relate it to other things.

I understand why you-all probably golf and turkey

hunt.

can assume that while you guys were out golfing,

Well, my golfing is my deer hunting, and I

10

you wouldn't appreciate four-wheelers running

11

across the golf course and interrupting your golf

12

game.

13

hunting.

Well, that's the way I view my deer

When I take my family out on our

14
15

property we own, pay taxes on, we enjoy deer

16

hunting.

17

in Lamar County, I'm able to do that now safely.

18

My son is nine years old.

19

three deer.

20

received our ban, I wouldn't dare take him with me

21

for worries about confrontations with dog hunters.

22
23

And since you-all banned dog deer hunting

He's already harvested

He's an avid hunter now.

Before we

Before we got our ban, I brought


photos before the Board, related photos that I had

58

made during deer season with hunters lining these

roadways next to our property, turning dogs loose

uphill from their property where they run across

us.

worked 100 percent.

dog hunters.

And since you-all enacted the ban, it has


We have no more problems with

We are able to enjoy our property.


And we just ask that you maintain our

7
8

ban.

We do not want a permit system in our area

because it is our understanding that it will not

10

work and just open the door back up to what we had

11

to endure before.

12

permits after they are issued, we will still have

13

to go through a period of time where we will pull

14

back into the dark areas that we have just pulled

15

ourselves out of with you-all's help.

Whether or not they lose their

So we just ask you maintain our

16
17

seasons ban on dog deer hunting and continue to

18

watch -- get that in our area.


Thank you.

19

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

20
21
22
23

Thank you,

Mr. Jeffreys.
The next speaker is Paul Labriola.
MR. LABRIOLA:

I would like to

59

thank you, Mr. Chairman and the Board, for the

opportunity to bring this before you.

Paul Labriola, and I live in Birmingham, but I hunt

in Elmore County.

My name is

I was born and raised in the small

community of Titus, Alabama, and I began hunting

there 50 years ago.

so again hunting as a very small child.

point in time my dad owned a small pack of beagles

I'm not hardly 50 years old,

10

and we dog hunted.

11

to the practice of dog hunting.

12

At that

So I'm not unilaterally opposed

However as things have evolved in the

13

community of Titus over the years, I have a small

14

graph that Robin had.

15

graphic, you can see maybe that the yellow

16

represents the parcels of the small group that

17

(inaudible) orange represents parcels that we know

18

for a fact that dog hunting is (inaudible) this is

19

just representative of the entire community.

20

can see there are no large holds, and I do know

21

that there -- I only highlighted those areas around

22

the yellow that we have.

23

all through the community of Titus, and so I gave

If you will see in the

You

I do know there are some

60

Robin a petition that has signatures, majority

residents in the Titus community that request that

you restrict to ban dog hunting in that area

(inaudible) exact gentleman have spoken to, and the

dogs are put out on one parcel of property, and

they run through our property onto their property

back through onto somebody else's property from

road to road and area to area.


When I began hunting in Titus,

9
10

Alabama as a small boy, we had reasonable

11

expectations of harvesting deer.

12

myself and five other guys that hunted routinely

13

and regularly on this approximately 500 acres we

14

have access to, we've had three deer sightings.

15

did not harvest a one.

This last season,

We

But the locals in the community tell

16
17

me the dog hunting group, that it happens to be the

18

concern in the area, routinely bragged in the

19

community that they harvested 120 deer a year.

20

don't know if I was doing it (inaudible) my point

21

is that in this condition and the circumstance, dog

22

hunting cannot be practiced ethically or legally or

23

safely.

And that in this particular condition is

61

resulting in a severe over-harvesting of the herd

in this area.
And fundamentally myself and the

3
4

other members, men I hunt with and the other people

that want to hunt this small parcel, that

previously (inaudible) in this community and around

their home and all no longer can enjoy the sport of

deer hunting in this area.


Thank you.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

10
11

Thank you,

Mr. Labriola.
The next speaker will be James Price.

12

MR. PRICE:

13

Good morning, I'm

14

James Price, Pickens County, Alabama.

I want to

15

talk a little bit about dog hunting.

I'm opposed

16

to dog hunting, and I'm proposed to banning dog

17

hunting north of 82 in Pickens County.


And I have dog hunted for 30 years.

18
19

I have 3,500 acres, and I do not keep my dogs on

20

that, and in 1993 I quit dog hunting because of the

21

complaints.

22

hunting clubs, so I even had a three-legged dog --

23

couldn't keep him on 3,500 acres.

My neighbors, landowners, stalk

62

So I gave it up.

Kept one hound dog

at my house and started stalk hunting.

Well,

that's the best thing I ever did.

kill a lot more deer.

is we have a dog hunting club close to us, so in

the middle of our tract of land and some more stalk

hunters, they have a small amount of land and we

constantly are having problems with dogs coming

through our land disturbing our hunting.

Peace and quiet,

And only problem I have now

So I know you can't keep dogs on

10
11

3,500 acres.

12

pretty good chance.

13

hundred acres, and even the small beagles they're

14

not going to -- so I am proposing a ban on dog

15

hunting in Pickens County, north of Highway 82.

16

Now, 10,000 acres you might have a


But if you got just a few

I appreciate your time.

And the dog

17

hunters we have now, they -- they got some great

18

deer dogs, and I'd like (inaudible) them.

19

do not -- I don't think they try to control them.

20

They run off the road and around houses, and you

21

see them standing in the roads.

22

very dangerous for that type hunting, and

23

somebody's got 10,000 acres and do it the way it's

But they

So I know it's

63

supposed to be done, I have no problems with that.

But the small amount of land, you cannot dog hunt

and be safe.
Thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

5
6

Thank you,

Mr. Price.
The next speaker will be Trent Ross.

MR. ROSS:

Good morning, my name

is Trent Ross, and I am also here to talk to you

10

about dog hunting north of 82 in Pickens County.

11

I've been hunting there since 1992,

12

and every year it's gradually gotten to be worse,

13

very overwhelming.

14

being fired on public roads, and now I have

15

children that are hunting.

16

environment that I take them out there to be in.

17

I would like to see north of 82 be

Standers on the roads, shots

That's not the

18

banned from dog deer hunting.

If I'm correct, I

19

think Pickens County is the only county north of 82

20

that allows dog deer hunting.

21

And I appreciate your time.

22

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

23

Mr. Ross.

Thank you,

64

The next speaker and our final

1
2

speaker will be Bryce Smith.

MR. SMITH:

Good morning again,

guys, and welcome the new members.

My name is

Bryce Smith.

back in the 2007 and 8 -- March 2007 -- well, in

2007, 2008 season we had dogs come through on a

semi-regular basis.

2008, 2009 season about two days before hunting

I own land in Choctaw County, and

Well, at the beginning of

10

season started, got called, and it was from an

11

adjoining hunting club that adjoined my land using

12

as -- poising dogs.

13

The reason I bring this up, at the

14

last meeting the gentleman got up here and said the

15

Smiths poisoned two dogs, and I'm here to tell you

16

it's a flat-out lie.

17

anybody or anybody's dogs.

18

caught a man's dogs that uses the poison and called

19

him to come pick it up this year.

20

We have never bothered


We caught dogs.

We

And this year I was able was able to

21

(inaudible) go hunting probably five or six times

22

on the weekends.

23

dogs ran on us.

Every single time we went, we had

65

And you know, it's to the point, just

1
2

like the gentleman said about three speakers ago,

it would be nice if you'd own your own piece of

land, hunt in peace.

there, I would expect a dog to come through.

not against dog hunting.

people that abuse it.

clubs out there, but there are some bad ones.

Somebody comes wants to threaten, making phone

And occasionally here and


I'm

I'm just going against

And there are a lot of good

10

calls and threatening your life to even go back on

11

your own property that you worked all your life to

12

buy, that's ridiculous.


And lastly Mr. Johnson's going to

13
14

make a motion to pertaining to the meeting, and I

15

hope that Dr. May or Mr. Brock Jones will continue

16

the effort, and I really would appreciate it if you

17

guys could get us some help because we're not

18

asking for the ban of the county or anything.

19

We're asking for some help to get a bad situation

20

evolved.
And I appreciate it.

21

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

22
23

Thank you.

Mr. Smith.

Thank you,

The time is approximately 10:30.

The

66

Board will recess for the next 15 minutes and meet

back promptly.

10:26 a.m.

(Short break.)

10:43 a.m.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

6
7

order of business will be Old Business.


We'd like to start Old Business today with

8
9

committee reports.
Are there any committee reports,

10
11

The next

Mr. Lynch?
MR. LYNCH:

12

Thank you,

13

Mr. Chairman.

14

The Dog Deer Hunting Landowner Rights Permit Study

15

Committee has been meeting for over a year and

16

looking into the issues that we have heard about

17

time and time again when we've come to these

18

meetings.

19

This may take a lit bit of a while.

Many of you-all are here today on

20

those exact issues.

21

tenure and everything we've covered and everybody

22

else who came before me has said the same thing.

23

From what I know during my

The purpose of our committee was to

67

focus on trying to see if there was a way to find

common ground that would give both sides of this

important issue an understanding of what this Board

would do on a first-case basis, going forward.

We asked Corky and his team to report

out to us, and they gave us a report in February of

this year on this issue and the issues we were

studying as a committee.

What basically came back from them is

10

that currently in Alabama if you look at the state,

11

about two-thirds of the state is still open to some

12

form of dog deer hunting and about a third of it is

13

closed to dog deer hunting.

14

they took the records was the '05, '06 season on

15

the number of hunters across the state of Alabama,

16

and it showed that there were approximately 205,000

17

hunters, give or take, and about 18,000 of them

18

were listed as dog deer hunters -- probably a

19

little more because some people hunt both ways, and

20

we think that number might have been a little

21

higher.

22
23

The last time that

In looking at what they reported back


to us -- because they knew we were studying a

68

statewide permit that we would implement -- their

recommendations back to us was that we first look

at how dog hunting is working across the state,

look at the permits that are out there in place

today, and their recommendation was that we do not

go to a statewide permit first, but try to find

some system that we could put in place -- a permit

system -- on an individual basis, county by county,

parts of county, as a first step in trying to solve

10

this issue for everybody.


We talked with the dog deer hunters.

11
12

Don Knight was there representing the dog deer

13

hunters, and we talked to him a little bit about

14

the statewide permit system.

15

would actually support a statewide permit system if

16

it opened up all areas of the state, including

17

areas that were currently closed to dog deer

18

hunting -- to dog deer hunting.

He said that they

As we worked through that, both the

19
20

staff -- Corky and his staff -- the landowners that

21

were represented and the Board members that were

22

there, had some concerns about taking that step as

23

well.

69

We decided then that that didn't seem

1
2

like, with the base of the recommendation from the

a ACDCNR staff, as well as what the dog hunters

said and what we knew from our position as Board

members, as well of the landowner representation

that was at the meeting, we decided -- okay, if the

statewide permit system does not work, what type of

permit would work well and why?


So at that time we reached out and

9
10

called Lieutenant Mike Pollard, who is very

11

experienced at enforcing and using the permit

12

system that we used down in the Wiregrass region of

13

the state.

14

talking to him about the areas in those counties in

15

that area where we do have a permit system in place

16

and why it was working well down there.

17

And we spent probably 15 or 20 minutes

He basically told us that there was a

18

lot of things that he thought that gave the

19

enforcement officer the tools to get both sides

20

together and start a plan on how to see that these,

21

that both types of hunting can peacefully coexist.

22
23

The enforcement officer is probably


the first person who has the most intimate

70

knowledge of the areas, the geographic areas in

question, the different parties that it pertains,

to be it either landowners and dog hunting clubs.

He's the person that during the hunting season

rides those roads on a daily basis and touches

those people and should be the first person that

has a chance to try to find some common ground.

8
9

The permits itself give the


enforcement officer a lot of leeway in how he

10

interacts with the dog hunting clubs to support the

11

issues that the landowners have out there.

12

go into a club, identify individual problem members

13

of the club, and remove them from the membership.

14

He can identify individual clubs within a given

15

county, that club that is causing the problems as

16

well, and can take away their privileges to hunt.

17

He can

He can also look at the permitted

18

areas that each club may have under permit and

19

actually modify the area that he permits so that

20

they can move out of troubled areas within their

21

own permit, but they still retain their rights to

22

continue to dog deer hunt.

23

So we felt that this was kind of

71

getting to where we needed to be, and it was a lot

of agreement throughout the room that this might be

a good chance to start using that.

One of the things we discussed also

was that while we feel strongly that there may be

potential for this permit system out there, there

are some places where a permit system may not

work.

the national forest, state game lands, and any

Specifically, that would be areas such as

10

other county or municipal lands that might

11

currently be open to dog deer hunting and you want

12

to put a permit in.

13

The piece of the equation in talking

14

to the enforcement officers that doesn't work here

15

is that everybody has a right to hunt those areas.

16

But if you start giving one group a permit where

17

they actually don't own land or they don't lease

18

the land so they can they can do dog deer hunting,

19

you may be getting an imbalance of rights to hunt

20

that land.

21

In addition, as part of the permit

22

system, it helps the enforcement officers to have

23

an organized group to go look at when they go into

72

these public land places where they have to enforce

the dog deer hunting rules and know who they're

dealing with on a daily basis.

I would certainly encourage -- we

talked about this -- the young lady that spoke

about more time to hunt dog deer hunting on state

game lands, that do you everything in your power to

try to organize your hunts on those places so that

everybody there knows who all is hunting, and you

10

attempt to let the wildlife officers know -- here's

11

who's in our club and here's who's out here today.

12

And that you also understand that although it is

13

public lands, you have private lands that touch

14

those public areas, and you'll still have the same

15

issues that you face on a statewide basis as well.

16

After much discussion, the committee

17

came to the following conclusion.

It is the

18

finding of the Dog Deer Hunting Permit Committee

19

that from this point forward in any county where

20

the dog deer hunting landowner rights issue is

21

causing concerns of a level where the ACDNR

22

Advisory Board must act, that the first and only

23

position the Board must take will be the

73

implementation of a permit system like the permit

system used in Covington County.

This includes any partial or complete

portions of any county.

Basically what this

proposal does is it clearly states to everybody

here that going forward the first position this

Board will take on this issue is to put some

Covington County permit system in place, be it a

portion of a county or a whole county that is

10

currently open to dog deer hunting, and the dog

11

hunters out there will all know that going

12

forward -- if it passes -- that that will be the

13

first thing this Board does.

14

So it gives the dog deer hunters a

15

chance to continue to make it work, to work with

16

the enforcement officers to help get the clubs that

17

are not doing it the right way out and to

18

(inaudible) --

19

It also, because that we're using a

20

permit system that we do believe in -- and people

21

have testified here today that you don't think it

22

will work, but they are working some places -- it

23

gives the landowners the knowledge that the

74

enforcement officer is going to have the tools to

handle the situation in the best way he can.


As I mentioned, the officer itself --

3
4

the Board tries very, very hard to understand the

intricacies of the individual areas and counties

that make up our own districts.

that should be the go-to person there is the

enforcement officer that's out there on a daily

basis.

But the person

So it puts the enforcement and the first-

10

place knowledge in that person's hands of working

11

with the two groups.

12

And Allan, I would say that it is

13

going to be imperative going forward that if we

14

start any new areas where we go to this permit

15

system, that great care is taken up front by your

16

officers to meet with all the concerned parties in

17

that area and understand the ramifications of what

18

we face on an area-by-area basis.

19

What this does not do -- and a lot of

20

you expressed your concerns out here today -- this

21

vote, if passed, does not open any current areas

22

closed to dog deer hunting in the state.

23

not change any current permit system in place in

It does

75

the state and the rules and regulations of those

permits.

any county or the state to dog deer hunting.


Mr. Wynn, I know you spoke -- and is

4
5

And it does not close any other areas of

he still here --

MR. WYNN:

Yes, sir.

MR. LYNCH:

you've spoken to us several times, and while it

doesn't open any areas to the state, I will tell

Mr. Wynn, I know

10

you that one of the most impressive things that I

11

have seen since my tenure on this Board was when

12

Wynnton from down in Geneva County, they were faced

13

with potential closure of their county to dog deer

14

hunting.

15

landowner standing there with him, with the dog

16

hunter standing there with him, and asked this

17

Board to please give them a chance with the permit

18

system.

19

He came up to the microphone with the

So I know you've talked about the

20

fact that, with your club there in Tuscaloosa

21

County, that you do have strong support from your

22

landowners, and I would just encourage you that a

23

great first step would be at some time to come in

76

front of the Board and stand there united with

those folks, speaking for both sides of that

equation.
MR. WYNN:

I have given the Board

a document from the gentleman that owns 7,228 acres

of our land.

But if it will do any good, I will have him here

before dark if you-all want to talk to him.

He lives in (inaudible) Louisiana.

MR. LYNCH:

I told you to show up

10

before, right.

It's not the gentleman that owns

11

the land, it's the neighbors that surround the land

12

that you need to have with you.

13

the whole community standing there together.

14

just presents a lot more solidified approach to us

15

as having everybody standing there from the dog

16

hunting side and the landowner side to say we think

17

this would work in our area, and we're willing to

18

try the permit system.

You need to have


It

So Dan, I would like as a Board

19
20

member now to make a proposal on this issue to the

21

Board and call for a vote.


DR. STRICKLAND:

22
23

motion.

I second that

77

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

1
2

motion and a second.

Let me read the

motion.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

5
6

The motion being again --

MR. LYNCH:

There is a

Go on and

read the motion.


MR. LYNCH:

That from this point

forward the ACDNR Advisory Board must always

attempt to find common ground on the dog hunting

10

landowner rights issues by first attempting to pass

11

a vote on the implementation of a dog hunting

12

permit system, like the one attached to this

13

motion -- in parentheses, Covington County Hunting

14

Permit Plan.

15

This vote may only be taken after so

16

stating that position at a previous Board meeting.

17

This must be done on any area in question of any

18

size and in any county where currently dog deer

19

hunting is allowed.

20

This is the exception I talked about

21

on the -- on the public land.

The only areas in

22

the state where this process may not apply is on

23

any public areas currently allowing dog deer

78

hunting, such as, but not inclusive, of state land,

county-owned land, and national forest land located

within the state.


Any changes in policy in these areas

4
5

should only occur after careful consideration of

all concerned parties, both public and private, and

should also include public discussion at a previous

ACDNR Advisory Board meeting.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

9
10

Is there any

further discussion by the Board?


DR. MAY:

11

Yes, I'd like to make a

12

motion that we table this motion.

13

complicated motion that you've made, and it covers

14

a lot of factors, and I think the Board -- all

15

Board members need to sit down and read this and

16

talk with the constituents of their district.


And I'm sure Mr. Harbin, he's not

17
18

able to be here.

19

(inaudible) intensive care.

20

him.

21

It's a pretty

So it's (inaudible) also and


I haven't talked to

This came -- someone else.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

22

second to table this motion?

23

MR. JONES:

Second.

Is there a

79

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

1
2

second.

We go straight to a vote.

majority vote.

(inaudible.)

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

There's no

discussion on it.
All those in favor to table the

8
9

It takes a

All those in favor?

We have a

motion, raise your hand.

10

All opposed?

11

Motion failed.

12

Any other discussion on the previous

13

motion on Grant's motion?


MR. LYNCH:

14

I'd just like to

15

clarify or go back on the comment that the Doc made

16

on it.

17

I did reach out and speak to George

18

Harbin this week.

I took him through exactly what

19

my motion was going to cover.

20

probably had some of the same concerns you've got,

21

Doctor, on that issue.

22

him that this is a process that's been going on for

23

more than a year where we have been talking about

I will say that he

But I tried to explain to

80

trying to come to some way of finding common ground

that before we take the step of taking away

different ways of hunting game, that we will first

try to find that common ground and give the tools

to the people that can work on those issues on a

case-by-case basis, and we just don't end it with a

vote when he have an opportunity to find that

common ground and hopefully keep all of these

people that come here -- whether they be stalk

10

hunters or dog hunters in the woods as much as we

11

can.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

12
13

In any other

discussion -- Dr. Strickland?


DR. STRICKLAND:

14

I would just

15

like to hear one statement from Mr. Knight.

I know

16

you work with the conservation officers and the

17

committee very closely, and you have all your

18

constituents with you in the audience.


What's your feelings about this,

19
20

where we are now and the direction that we're

21

headed?

22
23

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Mr. Knight,

would you come to the microphone, please?

81

MR. KNIGHT:

As I said earlier,

I'm Don Knight, by the way for the recorder, but I

support this 100 percent as an opportunity for the

dog hunters and the landowners to work together to

solve these problems before they come to you.

takes a lot off of you and takes a lot off of us,

and all these people that have to come down here at

every meeting, if we have a system set up, and then

if something comes up -- a complaint comes in, we

It

10

can handle it without it having to come to this

11

Board.
We need to work together as hunters,

12
13

all hunters.

We need to support any way we can of

14

getting more hunters into the woods.

15

support any way we can to get our youth hunts,

16

because we're losing them every day, every year.

We need to

And if it's stalk hunting or dog

17
18

hunting, I don't care.

My grandson has been dog

19

hunting since he's big enough to get in the woods.

20

But when he gets 16, 17 years old and he wants to

21

stalk hunt and not dog hunt, I'm just proud he's

22

hunting.

23

what (inaudible) --

To give him that opportunity, and that's

82

DR. STRICKLAND:

1
2

Thank you,

Mr. Knight.
Grant, personally I see this as a

3
4

monumental step (inaudible) within committee.

know I've been on the Board now for -- I think this

is my fourth year, and most of our conversation is

with regards to trying to get the landowners, the

dog hunters, the stalk hunters to work together.

think this may not the (inaudible) but I certainly

10

think it's a great first step.

11

go ahead and vote.

13

been a call for a question.

14

on that.

15

I think we need to

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

12

You

There has

There's no discussion

All those in favor of moving to the

16

question, raise your hand.

17

two-thirds majority.

This vote takes a

18

All opposed.

19

Motion carries.

20

The motion to be voted on is again

21

from this point forward that the ACDNR Advisory

22

Board (inaudible) attempt to dog hunting landowner

23

rights issues by first attempting to pass a vote on

83

implementation of dog hunting permit system, like

the one attached to Covington County Hunting Permit

Plan to this motion.

This vote may only be taken after so

stating that position at a previous Board meeting.

This must be done on any area in question of any

size and any county where currently dog deer

hunting is allowed.

where this process may not apply is on any public

The only areas in the state

10

areas currently allotted to dog hunting, such as --

11

but not inclusive of -- state lands, county-owned

12

lands, and national forest lands located within

13

this state.
Any changes in policy in those areas

14
15

should only occur after careful consideration of

16

all concerned to parties, both public and private,

17

and should also include public discussion at a

18

previous ACDNR Advisory Board meeting.

19

All those in favor, raise your hand.

20

All opposed.

21

Motion carries.

22

Is there any other business,

23

Dr. May?

84

DR. MAY:

I would just like to

make a comment.

I do appreciate Mr. Lynch and this

committee doing their work, and I'm sure you put in

a lot of hard hours and all.


But as Mr. Price said earlier about

5
6

his three-legged dog, you couldn't keep a three-

legged deer dog with a 20 -- on 200 hundred acres

and that's a fact.


And I know Mr. Lynch knows a lot more

9
10

about NASCAR racing than I do, but I know more

11

about dogs than he does, I guarantee you.

12

disappointed that I wasn't able to make more

13

comment as to why I was against this motion, but I

14

will abide by it.


Thank you.

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

16
17

I'm

Any other Old

Business -- Mr. Jones.


MR. JONES:

18

I would just like

19

clarification, if it's okay, on this that we just

20

passed.

21

complaints about a dog hunting club, will that be

22

taken into consideration to -- from -- to pass or

23

allow a permit this coming season?

In a situation where there have been past

85

1
2

MR. LYNCH:

Yes, I've got some

MR. JONES:

And as far as the

here.

3
4

decision, is that going to be made by the

enforcement officers or the -- I mean, how can we

as a committee make a decision if it comes about

after the meeting today?

8
9
10

I mean, how is a decision going to be


made or who is going to be make a decision whether
to grant a permit or not?
MR. LYNCH:

11

I believe the

12

decision has to come from the board member

13

listening to his constituents in his district,

14

working with the conservation officers, whether

15

it's an issue that they're just learning about or

16

an issue that's in an area you were aware of from

17

the previous Board member.

18

If it's been discussed at a previous

19

meeting, I don't think you had to be here to make a

20

motion on any given areas, but this says that the

21

first move we will do is to implement a permit in

22

any given area.

23

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Go ahead --

86

MR. JONES:

I just want to make

sure I understand this.

In other words, the

application is made, Advisory member -- Board

member and enforcement officer will review that and

on their own make a decision about whether to grant

it or not.
MR. LYNCH:

That's correct.

But

if you want it to be implemented during the 2009,

2010 season, this is our last public meeting before

10

that season, so the vote would have to be made

11

here.
MR. JONES:

12

So in other words,

13

after today then, the answer to the initial

14

question is that it can't be denied?


MR. LYNCH:

15

After today it can't

16

be voted on unless there's a special called meeting

17

for some reason between now and then, right?


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

18
19

your motion reads, that's the way I take it.


MR. LYNCH:

20
21

So there's a

(inaudible) then we cannot act on his own.


MR. JONES:

22
23

By the way

district?

For the particular

87

MR. LYNCH:

Yes, if you have

knowledge of an issue that's an ongoing issue in

your district that's been discussed here before,

you can make a motion on that issue because it has

been publicly discussed in that area before.


The only place you can't make a

6
7

motion is like these other things.

having it publicly discussed in our meeting, you

can't call for a vote.

10

Without first

As long as it has before

then, you have the right to make that motion today.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

11

Let me ask,

12

too, counsel, David Dean, do you see any exception

13

to that?

14

MR. DEAN:

15

little clarification myself here, if I could.

16

I may need to get a

It seems like the motion is that --

17

and correct me, Grant, if I'm wrong here -- but is

18

it the intention that if a vote be taken on a

19

particular county, that the county must have been

20

brought up at a previous meeting to vote on the

21

implementation of a permit system?

22
23

It seems to say that to me.

In other

words, we have to say something about a county

88

today that you want to implement a permit system

on, but the vote on it could not occur today

because it would have to be brought up at a

previous Board meeting.


Now, if I'm not reading that right,

5
6

we may need to clarify the motion.


MR. LYNCH:

Well, I'm not a

lawyer, but I wrote it.

I wrote it with the intent

of knowing that there were motions potentially that

10

would have been made at our March meeting, and I

11

asked at that time to please table all those

12

motions until the Board could -- until the

13

committee could come back to the Board with an

14

advisory position on what to do on this issue.


So the intent of the language,

15
16

correct or not, is that anything that might have

17

been brought up for a vote in March by -- and got

18

tabled at that time by this motion could be brought

19

up today.

20

MR. DEAN:

Okay, so in other

21

words, anything in March that a proposal to

22

implement a permit system on was discussed, you're

23

referring to something that at the March meeting

89

somebody said -- I want to implement a permit

system in a particular county?


MR. LYNCH:

It's my understanding

that for a Board member to ask for a vote on

something, they first must bring it up during New

Business at a board meeting where you discuss the

issue in question.

8
9

Once you have had that discussion, be


it a catfish regulation or dog deer hunting or

10

fishing net ban or anything else, that sets the

11

stage for the potential vote on that issue at a

12

future Board meeting.


MR. DEAN:

13

Right, I agree.

14

just -- I wasn't aware -- I guess I couldn't -- I

15

just wanted to get clarification on that.

16

So this would include -- it would be

17

your intent to include -- and I see that how that

18

would have to be corrected to be read to do that

19

(inaudible) about implementing a permit system on a

20

particular county, therefore we've passed it with

21

this motion today.

22

implementation of a permit system in a particular

23

county that was brought up in March.

This would allow voting on the

90

MR. LYNCH:

Yes.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

David, is

there anything that needs to be amended or Grant

needs to amend any part of this motion, in your

opinion, or can we clarify?

MR. DEAN:

We may want to simply

amend the motion to clarify -- and we don't

necessarily have to read it again -- but just to

clarify that the motion would include the right to

10

vote on matters that have been brought up at

11

previous Board meetings, but were tabled.

12

appears that your motion includes things that were

13

brought up in the past that were tabled on the

14

implementation on a particular permit system in a

15

particular county.

16
17
18

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

So it

You want to

make a motion to amend that motion?


MR. LYNCH:

Yes, I will make a

19

motion to amend that motion to include the language

20

that he just stated.

21

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

In trying to

22

keep this in order off our little sheet here, that

23

will require a second.

Is there a second?

91

There is.

Is there debate on that?


MR. HATLEY:

3
4

No, I've been trying

to get the floor for 30 minutes.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

And to modify

that to amend that to accept that it needs a

majority vote.

All those in favor, raise your hand.

All opposed.
The amend carries to amend the

10
11
12

motion.
You have a question, Mr. Hatley?

13

MR. HATLEY:

14

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

15
16

I have a question.
Mr. Hatley,

hold on the current question.


Dr. May has a question.

17

DR. MAY:

18

whether they had -- if someone asks to have a

19

permit in the last meeting that they would

20

recognize that.

21

Now, you mentioned

Now, I had -- I was over -- I never

22

got the chance to make it.

I had a motion to make

23

at the March meeting, and I also stated that I

92

wanted to make a motion at this meeting before

Mr. Grant Lynch made his motion that I couldn't

make those motions.


And am I allowed to make those

4
5

motions today?

6
7

Could you repeat

DR. MAY:

We've had -- I had

that?

8
9

MR. DEAN:

visited two counties -- Mr. Johnson's motion to the

10

Board at that time -- from trouble we were having

11

in Choctaw County and in Pickens County, and people

12

from both those counties have spoken before the

13

board at least twice.

14

last meeting to present.

15

floor, Mr. Lynch made the motion to table all

16

motions that wanted to ban any areas in any

17

counties.

18

had made the statement that I would also have a

19

motion on Pickens County, and I was -- have been --

20

that's been taken away from me, too.

And we had a motion at the


Before I could get the

And before he'd even made that motion, I

So I'm about decided I don't even

21
22

need to represent District 7 and let somebody else

23

do it.

93

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

The chair

will defer to counsel on your opinion of the

matter.
MR. DEAN:

4
5

just amend the motion -DR. MAY:

6
7

Can I make a motion

today on those counties?


MR. DEAN:

8
9

If I understand, to

Did you -- you brought

up the implementation of a permit system?

10

DR. MAY:

11

It was on banning an area.

It wasn't on permit.

MR. DEAN:

12

Well, you didn't bring

13

up about the implementation of a permit system, I'm

14

not sure that that would be an appropriate thing to

15

bring it up.
DR. MAY:

16

I should have had the

17

opportunity the last time, is what I'm saying, when

18

he made his motion that I couldn't make a motion.


MR. JONES:

19

If I could say

20

something.

I think the problem would be solved if

21

we have the opportunity to look at past complaints

22

and make a decision on reviewing a permit on those

23

specific complaints.

94

Now, can we do it from that angle?

1
2

MR. DEAN:

MR. JONES:

We can do that --- that have been

having problems for a couple of years, and one more

year we're going to have to wait before we address

the issue, waiting until the end of the season on

the permit system.


And I think Dr. May and I are saying

8
9

that we would like to address that issue if it's

10

through the permit system making a determination on

11

passing past complaints, we'd like to have that

12

opportunity.

13

MR. DEAN:

Well, I think where we

14

are right this minute is that Mr. Lynch's motion

15

would require that there be a proposal that the

16

implementation of a permit system be made in a

17

particular county would have had to have been

18

brought up in a previous meeting, so that would be

19

the directive on voting on it today right now.

20

MR. LYNCH:

The permit seems to

21

me -- there's two issues at play here.

One is the

22

closure of areas of counties to dog deer hunting

23

where it's currently open, which I believe is

95

Dr. May's issue.


If I'm hearing you correctly, you

2
3

would like the ability to open up a permit system

in the areas that may be in your district that we

have talked about previously here as well.


So it's two different things in my

6
7

mind.

Because it's been discussed previously, and

we just voted as a Board that we're going to go to

that policy going forward, he can put a permit

10

system in any area in any of his district that

11

exists now, as long as it's been discussed at this

12

meeting before.
Dr. May's issue is he was never able

13
14

to get this closure discussion to the floor for

15

that, and the only thing that I would say is that

16

is true.
But one of the reasons that we

17
18

decided to revisit the statewide permit was that

19

there were -- we were closing areas as a first

20

step.

21

and all the effort that we made to find common

22

ground on this issue, and we just all voted that

23

that's what we're going to do going forward.

And as everything that came out of our study

96

It seems like that while your

1
2

statement is a fact that you couldn't get that

motion to the floor, then ten of this Board -- and

it was pretty strong on the vote -- is to go to the

permit system going forward.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

6
7

Smith makes a good point.

apply that.

I would like for him to

DR. SMITH:

David, Gaines

The point I was

10

making is I think that the practice has been if the

11

issue has been brought up in previous discussion

12

and previous Boards, not necessarily the solution

13

to it.

14

Dr. May and the previous person from that same

15

district had brought the issue up for

16

consideration, it does allow an opportunity for it

17

to be heard -- closed it last time, but this Board

18

here to change that.

So in my mind this would say that since

It's the same issue but different

19
20

solution, different end result is what we're

21

dealing with.

22
23

MR. DEAN:

I think maybe if we

want to go that route, that's something the Board

97

wants to consider, we need to further amend the

motion to say that it has been brought up or

discussed at a previous meeting.

the language here specifically refers to "so

stating".

implementation of a permit system.

too narrow, unless we want to broaden it to include

these things.

So stating that there be an

MR. LYNCH:

10

I make that motion

now.
Is there a second?

12

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

13
14

I think that's

Whatever the Board wants to do --

11

Because I think

second for amending the motion?

15

There is a second.

16

There's no discussion.

17

All those in favor?


DR. STRICKLAND:

19

23

Before we vote

on this, could I just have a brief discussion?


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

21
22

It takes a

majority vote.

18

20

Is there a

There is

discussion.
I apologize, Dr. Strickland, yes.

98

DR. STRICKLAND:

One other

fundamental flaw that I see, Grant, is that it

seems as though we need to have some mechanism to

issue a temporary permit, because this could -- if

not, we're going to continue to run into this

problem.

discussed and then voted on.

8
9

We have to have a meeting.

It has to be

And that could delay -- delay the -drag this process out for quite some time.

And I

10

don't know if that's something that you -- that the

11

committee has thought about or entertained, but it

12

seems to me that that conservation officer needs to

13

have the ability to issue a temporary permit or

14

something needs to be done to stop, you know --

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

That's a

16

little different issue than what's before the Board

17

I think right now, Dr. Strickland.

18
19
20
21
22
23

Is there any other discussion on


amending the motion?
MR. JONES:

Well, I need a

clarification on that.
My understanding of what you're
saying is instead of this specific situation in

99

Choctaw County, Pickens County that Dr. May is

talking about, instead of going the route of

exempting a certain area, we're going to go the

permit route, is that what you're saying?

the only way that we're able to address that

specific situation because now we can't do it

through omitting a certain area, it's going to have

to go through the permit process?


MR. DEAN:

That's

Right.

Unless the Board wants to vote

10
11

otherwise, it could be over.

12

MR. JONES:

13

clarification on how that process will now take

14

place.

15

And if we could get

Are we going to decide today, or do

16

we have a -- that's what I am trying to understand

17

is on that specific permit -- I mean, the club has

18

got to -- has got to fill out the permit.

19

can't do it today, they're not here.

20

we've got to evaluate the permit it, so I don't see

21

how that can be done today, but I think it needs to

22

be done before the --

23

MR. LYNCH:

They

And then

Allan, could you

100

address that please?

MR. ANDRESS:

sure there was no misunderstanding on my part, on

the part of the Board, on how the permitting

process works itself.

I just want to make

Typically, what will happen is the

Board, at least in the past, has voted to adopt a

permit plan for a particular area, and then they

turn it over to the division to take care of all

10

the application process, the approval process, and

11

all of that up to that point.

12

is not directly involved in approving or

13

disapproving particular permits.

14

And then the Board

Does that clear that up any at all?

15

MR. JONES:

16

I'm saying is this is a situation that has been

17

going on for a while.

18

relief, and I would like to get that issue

19

addressed now before the season starts, instead of

20

them having to wait another year to address it.

21

Well, I guess what

Landowners have asked for

I mean, the permit may be granted,

22

and that's fine.

But I just feel like that

23

personally that we owe them the opportunity to

101

address the issue now.


Dr. May was trying to -- was trying

2
3

to get it addressed last meeting, and that's my

only argument is that we've already had the

complaints, the issues have been investigated, and

I feel like it needs to be in some way that we can

look at these specific situations, Choctaw and

Pickens County and address that.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

9
10

Mr. Hatley,

do you have any discussion on amending the motion?

11

MR. HATLEY:

Yes.

12

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

13

MR. HATLEY:

Go ahead.

What we are

14

discussing here are two different things.

15

hadn't got all the apples in the same barrel.

16

what our newest member here is bringing up is not

17

germane to the original point that we were talking

18

about.

19

committee about protocols that were to be

20

established.

21

We
And

And we have had discussions through the

And Allan, and what we were talking

22

about it, seems to me, is in a reversal role.

23

this is to set the right protocols in the

All

102

beginning, establish those, then we will work from

the bottom back to this Board, not -- don't mean

that derogatory -- and I apologize.

I want to go from the complaint to

the enforcement, in all areas, then come to this

Board or to the representative of that district and

analyze it from that standpoint, not coming from me

back down this way.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

9
10

That's the

reason we have consulted counsel, Mr. Hatley.


Before we close anybody's hunting

11
12

rights today, we're going to make sure that we're

13

in order.

14

clarify that so that -- I want the Board absolutely

15

clear on what they're voting on and whether that

16

can be done or not done today.

17
18
19

And again, Mr. Dean, we defer to you to

MR. HATLEY:

We've already voted

on it, have we not?


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Now we have a

20

motion that's been seconded to amend that motion to

21

allow that to happen.

22

MR. DEAN:

In response to

23

Mr. Jones' question, if this vote to amend --

103

further amend the motions passes, then I think it

would enable the addressing of those specific

concerns that you have, provided that those

concerns have been brought up in a previous meeting

in some form or fashion.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

DR. MAY:

Okay.

Well, are we going to

be able to ask for these counties to go under a

permit system immediately?


MR. DEAN:

10
11

brought up before today.

12
13

Yes, sir, if it's been

DR. MAY:

(inaudible) brought up

MR. DEAN:

We're broadening the

before.

14
15

language so that it will not be restricted to just

16

them having brought up specific implementation of a

17

permit system, but rather the subject area problems

18

and so forth.

19

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Is there any

20

other discussion on amending it to broaden that

21

what he just spoke on?

22

All those in favor, raise your hand.

23

All opposed.

104

Motion carries to amend the motion.

Okay, any other Old Business --

Mr. Self.

MR. SELF:

Mr. Chairman, at your

previous meeting I brought before the Board a

proposal for the a Rabbit Island Sea Grass

Protection and Restoration Project, a project that

was -- where a grant had been obtained through the

nature conservancy and its coastal in Mobile.


I requested that a regulation be

10
11

drafted, and that has been done.

It's Regulation

12

2009-MP-3, and I will just read the meat of that

13

regulation to you.
It shall be unlawful to operate a

14
15

combustible engine on the (inaudible) in the areas

16

designated by a series of signs and messages in the

17

vicinity of Rabbit Island and Ono Island, and Ono

18

Island to Old River South of Ono Island and Baldwin

19

County.

20

In the designated area all vessels

21

equipment with internal combustion motors,

22

gasoline, or diesel motors for pumping must turn

23

off the internal combustion motor and it's possible

105

to do so in to raise the internal combustion motor

out in the water.


The use of (inaudible) motors is not

3
4

prohibited.

(inaudible) provided by 33-5-62 Code of Alabama

1975.

Any person violating this provision is

This regulation shall become

effective on the 36th day after filing with the

legislative record service.

10
11
12
13
14
15
16

And I would like to make a motion


that we pass this regulation.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
discussion on that?
MR. HARTZOG:

disturbance of cutting up the grass, right?


MR. SELF:

18

MR. HARTZOG:

20

Just one question.

Basically the reg is for the

17

19

Is there any

That's correct.
Why would the

legislature be (inaudible) -MR. SELF:

They don't protrude

21

far enough below the water, nor do they propel the

22

water strong enough to hurt the grass.

23

MR. HARTZOG:

Okay.

106

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

1
2

discussion?
Is all the Board clear on the

3
4

motion?
In lieu of repeating it, we will --

5
6

In any other

if everybody is clear on it?

All those in favor?

All opposed?

Motion carries.
Any other Old Business?

10

DR. MAY:

11

I'd like to hear about

12

the permit system again, make sure I understand

13

it.
Do I have to make a motion today that

14
15

these two counties be put on the permit system?


Then I'd like to make that motion?

16

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

17
18

motion is again, Dr. May?


DR. MAY:

19
20

23

Pickens County and

Choctaw County be put on a permit.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

21
22

And the

second.
Is there any discussion?

We have a

107

DR. SMITH:

entire county area, Dr. May?


DR. MAY:

3
4

Well, I was only going

to recommend banning a certain portion, but -MR. HATLEY:

5
6

Does this include the

That is not what the

motion stated.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

DR. MAY:

What motion?

I just said the motion

I was going to make on banning back in March would

10

have just been a portion of those counties, not the

11

entire county.

12

And if you want that area, I will be

13

glad to give it to you or you can put the whole

14

county on the permit system.

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

So it was

16

just what you discussed before, Dr. May, is that

17

the your motion, okay --

18

Is everybody clear on that?

19

MR. HATLEY:

20

we've ever discussed this motion at any meeting.

21
22
23

DR. MAY:

I don't think that

We have not discussed

the -- now I have that motion -MR. HATLEY:

That's right, so how

108

do we know what you're talking about?


DR. MAY:

2
3

Well, I can read it to

you.
But what I'm saying is they won't let

4
5

me make that motion, and I'm asking can I make the

motion to go on those areas to go under a permit

system.
MR. HATLEY:

8
9

That's the decision

of the chair, not mine.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

10

Well, we will

11

allow it, per counsel clarification, that Dr. May

12

make those motions.

13
14

And that motion is on the table for


discussion right now.
DR. MAY:

15

In the Choctaw County

16

area the motion pertains to starting at the

17

Mississippi state line all the way down into

18

Mississippi, follow it to State Highway 10 south of

19

Butler, Alabama.

20

State Highway 17 south to the junction of Choctaw

21

County Highway 18, Baldwin County Highway 18,

22

southwest of the junction of County Road 14,

23

Autuaga County Road 14, west of the Mississippi

And the (inaudible) follow out on

109

state line, Choctaw County, Mississippi.


The one on Pickens County would read

2
3

everything north of Highway 82 in Pickens County

starting at Mississippi going to Tuscaloosa line,

following the Tuscaloosa line north to the Lamar

and Fayette County line, and following that line

west of the Mississippi line.

Pickens County north of Highway 82.

See, everything in

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Is all the

10

Board clear on it -- before we call for the vote,

11

is the Board clear on Dr. May's motion?


Is there any clarification needed

12
13

within any of the Board members again?

14

MR. HATLEY:

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

16

I'd like to -Mr. Hatley,

go ahead.
MR. HATLEY:

17

I'd like to go on

18

record as stating that I think the method that

19

you're using to arrive at this is not legal.

20
21
22
23

Now I want to go on record, Mr. Dean,


to point that out.
Secondly, I'm not sure if we're
voting on a closure, or are we voting for a

110

1
2

permit.
And if we are voting for a permit

today, we are going against what the committee has

recommended that we voted earlier, regardless of

the amendments you have placed on it.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

6
7
8
9
10

If I follow

you, Mr. Hatley, believe we voted to -Mr. Dean, I'd like to have you at the
microphone, too.
-- that when we amended that motion

11

that we allow this motion to be made because it was

12

priorly done at the previous meeting.

13

Is that correct, Mr. Dean.


MR. DEAN:

14

Yes, the motion as

15

amended would allow for the imposition of a permit

16

system today with a positive vote by the Board if

17

the matter had been discussed by Board members at a

18

previous meeting.

19

Rather than just having brought up

20

the specific point in the previous meeting, then a

21

Board member saying I want to implement a permit

22

system in that particular county.

23

So with the broadened language, I do

111

feel like we are legal here.

Whether or not the

Board wants to the follow the procedure, that's up

to the Board.
But that's -- through what we have

4
5

voted on today, I think it is a legal for the Board

to implement that.

And be it well advised or not, I

understand different people may have different

ideas on that.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

10

And

11

Mr. Hatley, so you will be clear, is the motion on

12

a permit system for the areas of those two

13

counties -- as Dr. May described -- is there any

14

other discussions before we vote on a motion?


MR. HARTZOG:

15
16

question.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

17
18

Mr. Hartzog,

you have the floor.


MR. HARTZOG:

19
20

Grant, one

Scratching your

head a little bit.

21

Your motion basically says that when

22

there's a problem area, then the Department can go

23

in and require that area or that club to go on a

112

permit, no matter what county it's in, right?


MR. LYNCH:

No, it is the Board's

position going forward in addressing the dog deer

hunting landowner rights issue within counties, the

Board first must take the step of implementing a

permit system first and not closure of the area,

and that it -- just like all other things we have

to vote on -- you have to discuss it here first and

talk about why you're going to bring it up for a

10

vote in a future meeting, or why it's an area of

11

concern that continues to cause concern in your

12

area, and you may bring it up for a vote at a

13

future meeting.
That's the intent of letting the

14
15

folks know --

16

MR. HARTZOG:

17

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

18

I got you.
Is there any

other discussion?

19

Is everybody clear -- okay.

20

All those in favor, raise your hand.

21

All opposed?

22

Motion carries.

23

Any other Old Business?

113

MR. SELF:

Mr. Chairman, at our

previous meeting, I requested that an emergency

regulation be issued to set a surcharge of zero

dollars to the saltwater fishing licenses, was a

regulation 2009-MR-2.
And I want to make a motion that we

6
7

now make this a permanent regulation.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

8
9

Is there a

second?

10

Any discussion?

11

No discussion.

12

I think everyone is clear on the

13

motion.

14

All those in favor, raise your hand.

15

All opposed?

16

No opposition, motion carries.

17

Any other Old Business -- Mr. Jones?


MR. JONES:

18

Yes, the youth

19

hunters of our state are our future, as many of us

20

said today, to benefit and encourage all of the

21

youth hunters of our state and mentioned in your

22

past meeting.

23

I would like to make a motion to

114

expand the youth deer hunting days for this

upcoming season by two dates.


The proposed date would be November

3
4

13th, which is a Friday, through November 16th,

which is a Monday.
And that would be a motion that I

6
7

would like to make.


DR. MAY:

8
9

Which four days are you

speaking?

10

MR. JONES:

11

DR. MAY:

Yes, it's four days.

You might check -- I

12

read your e-mail, and it's according to two deer a

13

a day, doe or buck.

MR. JONES:

14
15

But if we go four days --

really the motion.


DR. MAY:

16
17

able to take four bucks.

18

to do that.

19
20

Just four days is

But they wouldn't be

I don't think you meant

Because it's four days -MR. JONES:

I will leave the

legal -- Dr. May, all I'm really changing is days.

21

DR. MAY:

I think it's fair.

22

MR. JONES:

23

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

It probably was.
Mr. Jones, is

115

that for this season only or going forward that you

make that motion, to clarify that?

MR. JONES:

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

MR. JONES:

I understand -- going

forward.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

8
9

You said this

season, so I want to clarify that.

6
7

Going forward.

Any other

discussion?

10

Any other questions?

11

Okay, all those in favor, raise your

12

hand.

13

All opposed?

14

No opposition, motion carries.

15

Mr. Lynch?

16

MR. LYNCH:

17

that I have spoken of at two or three previous

18

meetings that I would like to put under the new

19

permit system, stating that all portions of Macon

20

County currently open for dog deer hunting be

21

placed under the new permit system for the 2009,

22

2010 deer hunting season.

23

I have one county

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Is there a

116

second?

There's a second.

Is there any discussion?

With no discussion on that motion,

all those in favor?

And all opposed?

Motion carries.

Any other Old Business?


MR. LYNCH:

9
10

I've got one more

thing.

11

Don, this is a reaching out to you --

12

as we discussed at our committee meeting, I'm still

13

concerned about the lack of organization of the dog

14

deer hunting in Talladega and Clay County, and I'd

15

like to work with you this year to see if we can

16

find any continuity up there and get those people

17

more of an understanding of the surrounded

18

landowners and then potentially have to use the

19

other part of the motion that we passed here today

20

too.

21
22
23

So that's a reach-out from me to do.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
other Old Business?

Is there any

117

DR. MAY:

I'd like to make a

statement that I promise that I'm going to bring

you a motion on defining the area and all the

(inaudible) be.

it gets to try to cover every corner.

The more we're doing, the harder

And the main purpose that I want to

6
7

get that defined is we're not being able to get

courts to convict anyone for baiting.


And Allan and them -- and Allan, I

9
10

talk to him a lot -- and the areas don't have to be

11

defined.
And I haven't given up, so I will be

12
13

back with it.

14

got the hunters, they don't know what the area is.

15

And people that want to supplemental feed, they

16

don't want to get arrested and (inaudible) they're

17

probably not going to get arrested, but they want

18

to supplemental feed, and then you have to stop

19

during hunting season, and during hunting season

20

that's when the stress parts of the season that

21

they need supplemental feeding.

22
23

We're going to have to -- and you

But I will be back with it, and maybe


at the next meeting, but I'm going to continue to

118

work on it.
Thank you.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

3
4

Thank you,

Dr. May.

Is there any other Old Business?

No response.

With Old Business being done, the

8
9
10
11

next order of business is New Business.


Is there any New Business -- yes,
Mr. Andress or Mr. Pugh?
MR. PUGH:

We need the Board to

12

vote on the seasons and limits that were discussed

13

in the last meeting and also the sale of game fish

14

regulation that was discussed.

15

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

If I wasn't

16

mistaken, Mr. Sealy -- Commissioner Sealy, I

17

thought we approved all you-all's regulations

18

approved last time as amended, is that correct?

19
20

Let's go ahead to approve it just in


case, just to make sure.

21

Is there a motion for that?

22

Is there a second?

23

Okay, any discussion?

119

MR. LYNCH:

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

MR. LYNCH:

Yes.

It does include the

selling of game fish in the motion?


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

5
6

Clarification.

Mr. Pugh,

could you get to the microphone and address that?


MR. PUGH:

I think it's really up

to the chair whether you handle it in one motion or

two.

10

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

11

I'd like to handle it in one motion.

12

includes it, that'd be fine.

MR. JONES:

14

Amendments that have

earlier been made today?


MR. HARTZOG:

16
17

And if that

Is there any other discussion?

13

15

If we can,

Can I ask one

question?

18

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

19

MR. HARTZOG:

Yes.

On the alligator

20

hunt in Barbour County, and Houston and Russell

21

Counties, the whole counties.

22

year, what did they have, 50 permits -- 40 -- so

23

this is doubling it, but we're quadrupling the

And I think last

120

size.
Is there any way in upping the quota

2
3

a little bit?

MR. MOODY:

size, but we're still having concerns about the

amount of because of boundary line of the lake

being on the west of the shore.


MR. HARTZOG:

8
9

We're doubling the

Right, but you

included east of the --

10

MR. MOODY:

In talking with Bill,

11

it still seemed like there's still not a lot of

12

public water, but we're not opposed to monitoring.

13

We just feel like it's a reasonable step to take.

14

MR. HARTZOG:

Have there been any

15

steps made any further to coordinating between the

16

state of Georgia in half acres?


MR. MOODY:

17

We've had discussions

18

with them.

They just are farther along than we

19

are, and they do it.

20

we have copy of it.

21

things on the way that we're going to get the

22

information back to the county.

23

more liberal, so I think we're getting there.

If you will notice this time


But we have also done some

It's is kind of

121

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

1
2

discussion?
Mr. Pugh, would you clarify those two

3
4

Any other

issues one more time?

MR. PUGH:

Board to formally approve the season and limit

recommendations that were presented by staff and

voted on preliminarily at the last meeting.


And also a regulation that prohibits

9
10

the sale or purchase of game fish.


CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

11
12

What we need is the

discussion?

13

Everyone clear?

14

Dr. May?
DR. MAY:

15
16

Any other

Yes, I'd just like to

make one comment -- I've made most of it already.


On the dove I disagree with your

17
18

seasons you are having on, and I think we're

19

hunting too early and too long, and I just want it

20

on record that I'm against it, hunting that early

21

on.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

22
23

discussion?

Any other

122

All those in favor?

All opposed?

Motion carries.

Any other New Business?

Mr. Hatley, I told you I would tell

you the appropriate time to talk about turkeys and

your issues.
Now is that appropriate time.

MR. HATLEY:

At this time it is

10

not appropriate.

11

with the staff, and we'll work on it at a later

12

time.

13
14

I have already discussed that

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

want you to be bypassed in New Business.

15

MR. HATLEY:

16

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

17
18
19
20

I did not

Yes, you did.


Is there any

other New Business?


Mr. Self, as a reminder, is there any
New Business, a motion you may have?
MR. SELF:

Well, I was waiting

21

for a section of the date and location of the 2010

22

Advisory Board meeting first.

23

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

Well, we can

123

do that.

The next order of business is the

date and location of the February 2010 meeting.


The date will be the 13th of February

4
5

-- 6th of February and the location will be

announced as soon as possible.


It will probably in Montgomery,

7
8

though.
Mr. Self?

MR. SELF:

10

Mr. Chairman, I'd like

11

to make a motion that we approve all regulations of

12

the Department of Conservation and Natural

13

Resources that have come before the Board since our

14

last meeting.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:

15
16

Is there a

second?

17

There is a second.

18

Is there any discussion?

19

All those in favor?

20

All opposed?

21

Motion carries.

22

Being there's no further business,

23

this meeting stands adjourned.

124

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11:56 a.m.

125

CERTIFICATE

1
2

STATE OF ALABAMA

3
4

COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY)

5
6

I hereby certify that the above and

foregoing hearing was taken down by me in stenotype

and the questions and answers thereto were

transcribed by means of computer-aided

10

transcription, and that the foregoing represents a

11

true and correct transcript of the testimony given

12

by and witness upon said hearing.

13

I further certify that I am neither of

14

counsel, nor kin to the parties to the action, nor

15

am I in anyway interested in the result of said

16

cause named in said caption.

17
18
19

__________________________________

20

Victoria M. Castillo, Commissioner

21

Certified Court Reporter

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ACCR#17-Expires:

23

Commission Expires:

9/30/09
5/19/10

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