Cab 2011 Mar

STATE OF ALABAMA
DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
AND NATURAL RESOURCES
ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
March 12, 2011
Pages 1 through 166
PREPARED BY:
Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, PC
Suite 505 - 500 Interstate Park Drive
Montgomery, AL 36109
Phone: 334.263.4455
Fax: 334.263.9167
E-mail: hr@haislipragan.com
Web address: www.haislipragan.com
DCNR Advisory Board Meeting DCNR Advisory Board Meeting
March 12, 2011
Page 1
STATE OF ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF
CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES
ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
March 12, 2011
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Proceedings taken before Tracye

Sadler Blackwell, Certified Court Reporter, ACCR
No. 294, and Commissioner for the State of Alabama
at Large, at Vestavia Hills High School, Vestavia
Hills, Alabama, on Saturday, March 12, 2011,
commencing at approximately 9:00 a.m.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, P.C.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 2
1
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
3
4
5
6
7
Dan Moultrie, Chairman

Gunter Guy, Commissioner
Gaines Smith
John McMillan
Grady Hartzog
Brock Jones
Grant Lynch
Warren Strickland
Raymond Jones
Bob Shipp
Bill Hatley
Joey Dobbs
8
9
* * * * * * * * * * * *
10
INDEX
11
12
CALL TO ORDER
13
INVOCATION
14
INTRODUCTION OF BOARD MEMBERS
15
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF LAST MEETING
16
PUBLIC HEARING
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
Pete Barber
Avery Bates
Paul Farmer
Mark Kolinski
Rinard Leonard
Billy Smith
Randy Yeargan
Cynthia Robinson
Jack Cropp
Randal Chappell
Frank Fincher
(Index continued on next page)

334.263.4455
17
17
20
23
25
32
34
35
39
46
49
53
March 12, 2011
Page 3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
INDEX (continued)
Danny Foster
Steve Huffaker
Michael Wade Jones
Don Knight
Louie Mattocks
Kelvin Bailey
Scott Cherones
Paul Jeffreys
Michael Lathem
Randy St. John
Jerome Boone
Susan Morrow
Johnny Roberts
Derrell Wright
Mike Bagwell
OLD BUSINESS
56
60
66
69
74
76
78
82
90
92
98
106
108
109
113
117
Motion by Mr. Strickland - Make

Bow-Mounted Range Finders Legal on Bows
120
Motion by Mr. Lynch - Approval of

Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries
Recommendations with the Amendment
128
Motion by Mr. Shipp - Approval of

Saltwater Angler Registry Regulation
130
Motion by Mr. Hartzog - Approval of Wire

Baskets for Congressional District 2
With Exception
131
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
NEW BUSINESS
Mr. Brock Jones - Motion to Approve All
Department Regulations Since Last
Approval
153
162
21
22
SELECTION OF DATE AND LOCATION OF 2011

SUMMER ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
165
23

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 4
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
The March 12th, 2011,
meeting of the Conservation Advisory
Board will now come to order.
to welcome everyone to Vestavia Hills
High School.
you're able to be here today.
invocation today will be given by
Mr. Bill Hatley.
Mr. Hatley.
10
MR. HATLEY:
I'd like
The board is glad that
Let us pray.
The
Father, we thank
11
you for this great day, and it is our
12
prayer that you would be with each
13
person gathered here today, bless, keep,
14
and direct and guide them.
15
in a special way we pray today for the
16
people of Japan who have been affected
17
so greatly by the earthquake that has
18
fallen upon them.
19
would bless this board.
20
decisions be beneficial and pleasing in
21
thy sight.
22
Christ's name and for His sake.
23
And, Father,
We pray that you

May all of our
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
These things we ask in Jesus

Amen.
Thank you, Mr. Hatley.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 5
1
2
The next order of business is the

introduction of the board members.
First I'd like to introduce our
Commissioner of Conservation, Mr. Gunter
Guy.
6
7
Commissioner.
Our assistant commissioner,
Mr. Curtis Jones.
Curtis.
Our Commissioner of Agriculture
ex-officio member, John McMillan.
10
Our other ex-officio member,
11
Dr. Gaines Smith from the Alabama
12
Extension Service.
13
Dr. Smith.
And then I'd like to start down on
14
the end with Mr. Jones.
15
introduce yourself and what district you
16
report from.
17
MR. RAYMOND JONES:
18
MR. STRICKLAND:
19
20
21
22
23
If y'all would
Raymond Jones, District 5.
Warren Strickland,
Huntsville, Congressional District 5.

MR. LYNCH:
Grant Lynch, Talladega,
Congressional District Number 3.

MR. BROCK JONES:
Brock Jones, Tuscaloosa,
District 7.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 6
1
MR. HARTZOG:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Grady Hartzog, District 2.

Now, from the other end,
Mr. Hatley.
MR. HATLEY:
Bill Hatley, District 1, Gulf
Shores, Alabama.
MR. DOBBS:
Joey Dobbs, District 6,
Birmingham.
MR. SHIPP:
Bob Shipp, District 1, Mobile,
Alabama.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you very much.
We
11
have one more temporary member today
12
beside me.
13
class at Auburn.
14
be part of a public meeting, so she
15
chose the Advisory Board meeting.
16
may regret that.
17
Ashley Moultrie.
18
My daughter is taking a
All right.
She had to attend and
I don't know.
She
This is
The next order of
19
business is approval of the
20
February 5th, 2011, Advisory Board
21
Minutes.
22
minutes?
23
Are there any changes to the
(No response.)

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 7
1
2
3
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
If not, the minutes stand
approved as read.
The next order of business, I'd like
to call on Commissioner Guy for his
comments of ongoing activities around
the state of Alabama.
7
8
9
Commissioner Guy.
COMMISSIONER GUY:
Thank you, Dan.
appreciate it.
I just thought I would
10
take a minute to talk with everyone
11
that's here briefly about what is going
12
on in Montgomery and a couple of the
13
issues that I know are high on a lot of
14
people's lists, mostly being extending
15
the February deer season and baiting.
16
We welcome everyone's input into
17
those issues both during the week -- we
18
get a lot of e-mails.
19
phone calls.
20
We do hear what you say.
21
appreciate those that are here today and
22
what they might say about those issues,
23
and we want to hear from them.
We get a lot of
And we appreciate those.

We also
We want

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 8
1
2
to know your positions.

At the same time I wanted you to
kind of know about some legislation and
what position I'm taking as your
commissioner.
about 60 days.
job to do what's best for both the
hunters and the people, you know, that
are out there -- the public and, also,
10
for the natural resource, the deer and
11
the wildlife.
12
I've been in office now

And, of course, it's my
And so in looking at those issues,
13
I've committed to study and get
14
appropriate data and to get sound
15
science, get input from our leaders in
16
biology and our professors and other
17
people who are knowledgeable about those
18
issues.
19
while.
20
need to look at that.
21
have made a commitment to do.
22
23
We haven't done that in a

It needs to be updated, and we
And that's what I
But until we do that, I am not

committed to taking a position on that.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 9
1
And so I'm against any legislation that
would extend deer season or legalize
baiting.
It doesn't mean I'm against it.
means that I want to look at it.
to study it.
we study it, it will be based on
information that we can rely on and
information that all of us can feel
That doesn't mean I'm for it.

It
I want
And whatever we do after
10
comfortable with.
Because, like I say,
11
we do need to balance what's best for
12
the hunter and, again, what is best for
13
the natural resource.
14
So, anyway, we -- and I thought it
15
would be best just to address that now.
16
There is a piece of legislature --
17
legislation -- excuse me -- in
18
Montgomery.
19
legislative members who are looking at
20
those matters that same position.
21
asked them to just wait, to not do
22
anything.
23
bills until we know what we need to
And I have expressed to the
I've
Let's just not act on those

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 10
1
2
know.
So, again, I think what everybody
says is important.
I have an opinion
just like many of you have an opinion.
If you hunt like I do and like you do,
you have opinions on those issues.
our opinions alone shouldn't be the only
thing.
There is good information out there.
But
There is good data out there.
10
There are people out there that are
11
knowledgeable about these things.
12
there's no reason why we can't get it.
13
And
So what I've committed to do is put
14
together a committee or committees,
15
whatever is necessary.
16
address those issues.
17
my department folks in conservation.
18
They're already in the planning stages
19
of that.
20
the Department of Conservation and
21
outside the Department of Conservation
22
that will be involved in these issues.
23
So it won't be just Department of
And I will
I've talked with
We'll have people both inside

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 11
1
Conservation members, and it won't be
just people outside the Department of
Conservation.
We're going to get input.
We're
going to get -- it's going to be
transparent.
the kind of information that people that
are on this Advisory Board, people in
the legislature, and myself can then use
10
11
12
13
And, hopefully, we'll have
to make good decisions.

Thank you, Mr. Moultrie.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you, Commissioner.
Along those same lines, there has
14
been so much scuttlebutt about the issue
15
of the February season.
16
liberty of contacting Auburn, talked to
17
Dr. Ditchkoff and asked him for a
18
current status in his opinion as -- his
19
professional opinion at Auburn of the
20
February season.
And I'd like to read
21
his letter back.
I think it's pretty
22
spot-on.
23
I took the
It says, the recent modification of

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 12
1
buck limits in Alabama was partially
driven by a desire to positively
influence biological and social health
of the white-tailed deer population
across the state.
reducing the season limit to three bucks
would increase the number of older males
in the population and help to create a
more balanced sex ratio that more
It was suggested that
10
closely resembled the natural one-to-one
11
ratio that's found in natural
12
populations.
13
theoretically would have a positive
14
effect in reducing the length of the
15
breeding season, thereby resulting in
16
less rut-related natural mortality due
17
to the physical and physiological rigors
18
of extended breeding effort of male
19
deer.
20
that natural mortality in male deer
21
following the breeding season can be
22
significant.
23
These changes
Published data have suggested
The proposal to extend deer-hunting

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 13
1
season into February has the potential
to have negative physical and
physiological consequences for the deer
herd in Alabama.
season will likely result in increased
hunting mortality for adult male deer.
Reduced numbers of male deer will serve
to drive the adult sex ratio away from
the optimal one-to-one state and tend to
An extended deer
10
favor females.
This decrease in the
11
number of breeding males will reduce
12
breeding efficiency and result in some
13
females not being bred in their first
14
estrous cycle.
15
bred, will re-enter estrus every 28-30
16
days until they are bred.
17
increased number of females are not bred
18
during their first estrous cycle, the
19
result will be an extended breeding
20
season, which can only serve to increase
21
rates of natural mortality in adult
22
males due to the physical and
23
physiological rigors of the breeding
Female deer, when not
If an

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 14
1
2
season.
Increased hunting success associated
with an extended hunting season during a
period when mature males are more
susceptible to harvest, i.e., the rut,
will serve to decrease the number of
mature males in the population.
males are more efficient breeders than
younger males and serve to decrease the
Mature
10
length of the breeding season.
Because
11
mature males are more efficient breeders
12
than young immature males, less females
13
will enter a second estrous cycle in
14
populations that have mature males and
15
the breeding season will be more
16
compressed.
17
of mature males in a population serves
18
to suppress breeding effort and
19
intensity of younger males.
20
suppression of breeding effort has a
21
positive effect on body growth and
22
antler development of young males in
23
subsequent years.
Additionally, the presence
This
Because these

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 15
1
immature bucks put less effort into
breeding, they are in better condition
following the breeding season and do not
have to put as much effort into
replenishing their energetic reserves.
The result is they can focus on body
growth and antler development in
spring/summer as opposed to rebuilding
body reserves, and antler development
10
and body reserves in subsequent years
11
will be greater than if there had not
12
been mature males in the herd.
13
Increased overall buck harvest and
14
increased harvest of mature males can
15
create a cascading biological impact on
16
a deer herd.
17
understanding of these impacts is still
18
evolving, the data that have been
19
collected on the topic all suggest that
20
the relationships among sex ratio, age
21
structure, population density, and the
22
breeding season of white-tailed deer are
23
intricately linked where impacts on one
While our overall

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 16
1
will affect the others.
As a result,
any proposals regarding changes to deer
season, i.e., length and bag limit, in
Alabama should carefully consider the
body of scientific information relating
to reproduction and management of
white-tailed deer.
effort should be made to project changes
in harvest patterns due to proposed
Additionally, every
10
season modifications using existing data
11
from Alabama and surrounding states.
12
Failure to do so would be nothing short
13
of biologically irresponsible.
14
I think that's good to have another
15
scientific opinion from a source as good
16
as Auburn.
17
wordiness and the length of that, but it
18
is what it is.
19
And I apologize for the
All right.
The next order of
20
business is the public hearing.
When
21
your name is called, please come to the
22
microphone and give your name and the
23
subject you wish to speak upon.
I will

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 17
1
remind you that you may only speak at
the time that you are called and any
interference will not be tolerated.
4
5
6
Okay.
The first speaker will be
Mr. Pete Barber.

MR. BARBER:
Pete.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
Commissioner, Commissioner, Board
Members.
the president of the Alabama Seafood
My name is Pete Barber.
I'm
10
Association.
We represent commercial
11
fishermen, and we also have charter boat
12
fishermen in our organization.
13
I see a lot of new faces.
I'd like
14
to just take this opportunity to thank
15
this board for all the consideration
16
they've given us in the past.
17
hope that a good relationship will
18
continue, and I feel confident it will.
19
We're blessed in the state of
20
Alabama to have an abundant marine
21
resource well managed by our
22
conservation department that provides a
23
living for our commercial fishermen and
And I

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 18
1
outstanding recreational opportunities
for our recreational fishermen.
that was jeopardized last April when the
Deepwater Horizon blew up.
All
We're still going through a
transition phase.
Thank the Lord, it
looks like we're going to survive.
looks like all the worst-case scenarios
were a little bit premature and
It
10
overstated.
11
that's lingering is a market resistance
12
to Gulf seafood.
13
this question of the board members.
14
many of you have a concern when it comes
15
to eating Gulf seafood about the
16
safety?
17
But one of the things
And let me just ask
Let it be so all the time.
How
What we
18
have -- over the last year since this
19
became an issue, we probably inspect our
20
seafood products by a factor of at least
21
ten more than they've ever been
22
inspected before.
23
as we can determine, is there.
The safety, as much

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 19
1
Unfortunately, there's a lingering doubt
amongst the seafood eaters or potential
seafood eaters in the rest of the
country.
population just would not eat any
seafood from the Gulf because of
concerns.
media hype that accompanied the oil
spill.
As many as 35 percent of the
I put a lot of that on the
And, hopefully, over time --
10
that number used to be 70 percent.
11
We're down to 35.
12
23.
In one poll I saw
It's there.
13
One of the big distributors in the
14
New Jersey/New York area basically told
15
our crab-pickers down here that he
16
didn't want to talk about a Gulf
17
product.
18
And that's something that we have to
19
deal with and we will.
20
something I wanted this committee to be
21
aware of and certainly any ideas that
22
could help and just doing your own part
23
in consuming your 12.2 pounds of seafood
That's a hard hill to climb.
But it's just

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 20
1
a year and maybe upping it a little
bit.
3
4
Anyway, thank you for your time.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
5
6
7
Thank you, Mr. Barber.
The next speaker will be Mr. Avery

Bates.
MR. BATES:
My name is Avery Bates.
I'm a
commercial fisherman when there's any
oysters out there, and I'm also
10
vice-president of Organized Seafood
11
Association.
12
board many times over the years with
13
concerns of our commercial fishing
14
industry.
15
But I've been before this
Many times things just come up like
16
making gamefish status for a number of
17
species just in the last two years.
18
last time y'all were here it was brought
19
up about sheepshead.
20
also brought up about Spanish mackerel
21
and pompano.
22
species after species wanting to be
23
designated as gamefish.
The
Last year it was
It seems like we are

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 21
1
In the future I hope y'all
understand that these seafoods they're
trying to take away is taken away from
you and everybody else when they try to
take these species away from us when
there's no biological reason to do
this.
we do have constitutional rights in this
state, and the seafoods are the property
10
of the state to be held in trust for the
11
people of the state.
12
Constitution gives us certain property
13
rights.
14
So we want y'all to be aware that
And, also, our
We've had several seafoods taken
15
away from us in the past, and that hurts
16
our industry, hurts our businesses.
17
in the future when somebody comes to you
18
recommending certain seafood to be taken
19
away from you, let -- I want you to be
20
aware there's people down there that
21
supplies the markets, the restaurants --
22
in fact, 20 percent of our natural -- or
23
our resources that come through the
So

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 22
1
state come from Mobile County, and
87 percent of that is seafood run
through the restaurants.
part of our income.
has two restaurants now.
the trouble getting seafoods.
That's a big
Bob said his son

That's double
So we want to maintain good healthy
seafoods, which we have in this state,
and we want to have access to them.
So
10
when somebody tries to take it away from
11
us, be aware that we want to exercise
12
our constitutional property rights and
13
not let somebody exercise eminent domain
14
which belongs to everybody in the
15
state.
16
So thank y'all.
We appreciate y'all
17
eating seafood.
18
have a big seafood bash in Montgomery
19
for our legislators.
20
are invited to come, and you should be
21
getting invitations through the mail.
22
Enjoy our local seafoods.
23
We're getting ready to
A number of y'all
Mr. Guy, it's nice to have a new man

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 23
1
on board, and we're glad that you're
going to work with us.
he's talked to you.
you.
assistant commissioner.
Pete said that
I'm glad to meet
And I want to meet our new
But we're just hard-working people
down there.
We want to keep serving and
working for the state of Alabama and for
our people to have jobs.
Jobs now is a
10
premium.
11
So keep us in mind when somebody comes
12
before you trying to take seafoods away
13
from us.
14
15
Thank you so much.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16
17
18
We don't need to lose them.
Thank you, Mr. Bates.
The next speaker -- the next speaker

will be Paul Farmer.
MR. FARMER:
Good morning, everybody.
I'm
19
Paul Farmer from Shelby County,
20
Alabama.
21
how I do not like the idea of bringing
22
deer season two weeks into February.
23
Because I'm a big rabbit hunter, and
And I just came today to say

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 24
1
we're already struggling for places to
rabbit hunt during the deer season as it
is.
I feed -- it costs a lot of money to
feed all them dogs all year long to
really get to hunt them just the month
of February.
everybody know that we'd really like
y'all to look into this and try not to
10
11
So I just want to let
take no more time away from us.

I mean, I know we get to hunt a
12
little bit in October, but it's so hot
13
in October.
14
of hours every morning, and that's about
15
it because it's too hot to hunt.
16
you have to go home and pick the ticks
17
off of you.
18
You can only get a couple
Then
So you ...
So that's all I needed.
And really
19
I'd like for y'all to just take into
20
consideration -- you know, there's a lot
21
of us small game hunters out there
22
that's fighting the same battle
23
everybody else is just trying to find

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 25
1
our place into the hunting.
don't need to lose any of our little ol'
four weeks we get in February.
4
5
6
7
8
9
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you, Mr. Farmer.
The next speaker will be Mark

Kolinski.
MR. KOLINSKI:
Kolinski.
Good morning.
My name is Mark
I live in Lawrence County,
10
Alabama.
11
manager for Wild South.
12
And we
I'm the Alabama program
Wild South is a 501(c)(3) non-profit
13
forest protection organization.
14
been involved in forest management on
15
the Bankhead National Forest for almost
16
20 years, been a collaborative partner
17
with the Forest Service for the last
18
seven or eight years.
19
of members across the state.
20
We've
We have hundreds
I'm here this morning to ask you to
21
give very serious consideration to
22
changing the game laws on the Black
23
Warrior Wildlife Management Area in the

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 26
1
Bankhead National Forest in a way that
will provide a much greater range of
strategies and opportunities and options
for controlling feral swine in that
area.
In my work with Wild South, I do a
lot of natural resources inventory for
the Forest Service for the last five
years, chain surveying and -- where -- a
10
survey of all the watersheds in the
11
Bankhead.
12
oversaw/supervised a nonnative invasive
13
plant inventory of the interior of the
14
Sipsey Wilderness.
15
Wilderness, 25,000 acres, is totally
16
included in the Black Warrior Wildlife
17
Management Area.
18
opportunity to witness the kind of
19
damage that hogs can do.
And in 2009 and 2010 I
The Sipsey
So I've got plenty of
20
The resource impact -- the negative
21
resource impact I shouldn't need to tell
22
you about.
23
about extensively in the media.
I mean, it's been written

It --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 27
1
the impact on the soil erosion, trail
damage.
destroyed.
It's -- I mean, the list goes on.
supplies for your favorite game species,
deer and turkey.
Native plant populations are

Reptiles and amphibians.
Mass
The current game laws pretty much
have the effect on hogs of treating them
like a game species.
You get a couple
10
of weeks twice a year where folks can go
11
out and hunt these feral hogs, and they
12
get six months off every year just like
13
every other game species.
14
I'm here to ask you to change the laws
15
in the short term to allow opportunities
16
for control.
17
like the nonnative invasive species that
18
they are.
19
And it's --
They need to be treated
We have what's considered a
20
low-density population on the -- in the
21
management area and in the Bankhead.
22
But this low-density population
23
concentrates itself in local areas and

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 28
1
creates serious damage, and sooner or
later you're not going to have deer and
turkey on the Bankhead.
going to take over.
disaster --
MS. NUMMY:
MR. KOLINSKI:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. KOLINSKI:
10
The swine are
I mean, this is a
Time.
-- in the making.
Sum it up, please, sir.
Sorry if I ran over.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Kolinski, did you
11
speak at the last board meeting on this
12
same subject?
13
14
15
16
MR. KOLINSKI:
No, I have not.
first time I've spoken before the board.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Kolinski.
18
MR. STRICKLAND:
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
20
MS. NUMMY:
22
23
Very good.
Thank you very
much.
17
21
This is the
Mr. Kolinski.
Mr. Kolinski.
We've got one other --
Hey, if we can hold the applause
until after -CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
You've got some questions
from the board.
Dr. Strickland.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 29
1
2
MR. STRICKLAND:
A couple of questions.
What's your proposal, again, to
control the swine population in the
Bankhead?
MR. KOLINSKI:
Well, I don't want to be
specific.
I don't want to tell the
agency and all how to do their job.
game management laws and regulations on
the WMA need to be changed in order to
But
10
allow more flexibility for treating this
11
species like the nonnative invasive
12
species it is.
13
aggressive.
14
And we need to be creative.
15
might mean impacting some of the other
16
users of the Wildlife Management Area,
17
some of the hunters, some of the
18
recreations, the hikers.
19
make some law enforcement of current
20
game laws a little more difficult.
21
this problem, I think, justifies
22
inconveniences of this sort.
23
MR. STRICKLAND:
We need to be
We need to be relentless.
And that
And it might
But
You know, in my experience --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 30
1
and this is probably something that we
need to have our biologists address as
well in the game department.
You know, I agree with you a hundred
percent.
If you let the swine
population get out of hand, it can bring
havoc on our vegetation, you know,
particularly your turkeys and things of
that nature.
But, really, the only good
10
way to control it is not by hunting
11
them.
12
And -- because hogs -- we all know
13
they're very, very smart animals.
14
once you put a little bit of pressure on
15
them with dogs, then they just go
16
nocturnal.
It's really by trapping them.
17
MR. KOLINSKI:
18
MR. STRICKLAND:
And
Right.
And once you get dogs and you
19
increase the human activity with hunting
20
them, you -- again, you disrupt the
21
other, you know, natural wildlife.
22
23
MR. KOLINSKI:
can help.
That's where getting creative

I think there's opportunities

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 31
1
to have organized hunts.
community there around the Bankhead that
is very concerned and very involved, and
being able to organize it and use those
people effectively and creatively -- I
think there's things to be done.
You have a
The Forest Service is willing to
work with the agency and all to address
this, and there needs to be some -- an
10
organized meeting.
11
down.
12
possible options out there.
13
didn't come here, you know, to address
14
any of them specifically.
And I think there's a lot of
15
MR. STRICKLAND:
16
MR. KOLINSKI:
17
And I
I just --
Thank you.
-- think we really need to get
some action.
18
MR. STRICKLAND:
19
MR. KOLINSKI:
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Kolinski.
All right.
22
Rinard Leonard.
MR. LEONARD:
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
21
23
People need to sit
The next speaker will be
Good Morning, Mr. Chairman,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 32
1
Advisory Board Members.
My name is
Rinard Leonard.
Alabama, and I belong to Mid Alabama
Beagle Club.
it back to what Paul has said this
morning.
I'm from Elmore County,
And I do -- I want to take
Our rabbit season starts 1 October,
and it's so hot you can't hunt but for a
couple of hours in the morning.
And I
10
do oppose extending the deer-hunting
11
season to February.
12
taking it back to Paul, February is
13
our -- really the small game hunter's
14
time to hunt because it's really cold
15
and you can hunt all day.
16
14, 15 dogs all year to really enjoy
17
rabbit hunting during the month of
18
February.
19
in in November, the stalk hunting and
20
the gun season come in, the private land
21
is leased by mostly the deer hunters,
22
and they don't allow you to come in and
23
hunt.
Because, again,
And we feed
Because once deer season come

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 33
1
But I do applaud deer-hunting clubs
for allowing us the opportunity during
February to bring our rabbit dogs in and
hunt in February.
deer-hunting season into February, that
cuts us out.
small game hunters have just as many
rights as the big game hunters.
that's where the rabbit hunters stand.
10
11
But if you extend the
And I really believe the
And
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Leonard, your success
12
on rabbit hunting probably would go up
13
if that red-and-white hat was changed to
14
an orange-and-blue hat.
15
suggestion.
16
orange-and-blue hat.
17
MR. LEONARD:
You may want to try that
Well, Mr. Chairman, one thing
18
about it though.
19
it is an orange cap.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
21
22
23
Just a
Once I hit the woods,
That's good.
The next speaker will be Mr. Billy

Smith.
MR. SMITH:
Good morning.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 34
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. SMITH:
Mr. Smith.
I'm just about going to say the
same thing that Rinard said because I am
a rabbit hunter too.
Elmore County and Coosa County.
rabbit hunting all my life and I'll be
49 in two weeks.
done is just rabbit hunting.
So I hunt down in
Been
And that's all I ever
Just like he said, it's too hot to
10
hunt when the season start in
11
February -- in -- I mean, in October.
12
And then February, you know, it is the
13
time to hunt because it -- the deer
14
hunters will open up the land for us.
15
You know, it's probably 90 percent of
16
the deer hunters that, you know, let us
17
go on their land.
18
It also hurts the quail hunters.
19
hurts the squirrel hunters.
20
everybody if the season be extended
21
into -- into the February year.
22
like to keep our little four weeks.
23
It
It hurts
So we'd
Because feeding them dogs in the

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 35
1
way -- as high as everything has got
right now, you can't -- you can't hardly
feed them.
sell some of y'all some.
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
Matter of fact, I need to
But that's all I had.

to be seen and be heard.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you very much,
Mr. Smith.
The next speaker will be Mr. Randy
Yeargan.
MR. YEARGAN:
Good morning, Commissioner, all
12
the board members.
13
you again.
14
Bowhunters of Alabama.
15
I just wanted
Good to see all of
I'm Randy Yeargan with
First of all, again, as I always try
16
to do, I'd like to thank all of you for
17
all the time that you put in looking
18
after our rights and trying to take care
19
of our rights with the Department of
20
Conservation and working with
21
everybody.
22
other jobs to do and -- since you're so
23
well paid for this job in dealing with
And I know a lot of you have

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 36
1
us.
just wanted you to know that.
But we appreciate what you do.
We
I wanted to address the board for
just a minute about a subject that we've
had some people ask us about our opinion
on, and that's basically what I want to
do is just let the board know the
Bowhunters Association's opinion on the
subject.
And that's the subject of
10
range finders, these bow-mounted range
11
finders.
12
They've been around for a long
13
time.
14
they've gotten more popular.
15
been asked by different people, you
16
know, how do we feel about the range --
17
the bow-mounted range finders.
18
as it is a range finder that does not
19
project any type of visible light or any
20
type of visible beam, as an association
21
we're not opposed to bow-mounted range
22
finders.
23
In the last couple of years

And we've
As long
We use range finders every day

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 37
1
anyway.
hung around our neck.
reason why, like I said, as long as it
does not project any type of light, that
you could not mount it on a bow.
makes a person more effective and it
makes for a more ethical kill and you
want to mount it on a bow, we're not
opposed to that.
10
They're either in our pocket or

We don't see any
If it
So we've been asked, and I just
11
wanted to address the board and let the
12
board know that we're not in opposition
13
of these range-mounted bow finders -- or
14
bow-mounted range finders.
15
So if that subject is to come up in the
16
future or whatever, I just wanted y'all
17
to know our position on it.
18
opposed to it, and we will support it.
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Excuse me.
We're not
Mr. Yeargan, while we've
20
got you here, how have the hunts at Oak
21
Mountain gone?
22
23
I know y'all are conducting those

now.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 38
1
MR. YEARGAN:
I think they're going very
well.
We had an unusual season this
year.
There was almost a complete crop
failure of acorns in the park this year,
and that's probably 90 percent of the
food source in that park are the acorns
up there.
in a very unusual year where there were
not near the numbers of deer in the park
10
11
We killed 59 deer this year
that there normally would be.

We had -- I don't -- that I'm aware
12
of, I don't think we had a single
13
incident with the public or with any of
14
the other user groups in the park.
15
not aware of a single thing.
16
very well accepted.
17
worked out very well.
18
any issues that were not -- we had a
19
couple of issues early with some people
20
that might have been driving too fast
21
and stuff like that in the park, and we
22
addressed those immediately.
23
think everything was very well
I'm
We were
I think things
We didn't have
And I

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 39
1
received.
I think we had a successful
year considering the situation at the
park.
I think it went very well.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. YEARGAN:
MR. STRICKLAND:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
8
9
Thank you, Mr. Yeargan.
You're welcome.
Hey, Randy.
Thank y'all.
Hey, Randy.
We've got one question.
Dr. Strickland.
MR. STRICKLAND:
I'm going to be putting an
10
application in for Oak Mountain.
11
guys are making that decision; right?
12
13
14
15
16
MR. YEARGAN:
Yes.
We'll take that into
consideration.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
You
Thank you.
Cynthia Robinson.
MS. ROBINSON:
Hello.
Thank you for seeing
17
me.
My name is Cynthia Robinson.
I own
18
a natural resource management company in
19
North Alabama, and our primary business
20
is wetland restoration.
21
established the first wetland mitigation
22
bank in Alabama in Morgan County, and
23
that was established in 1998.
I helped
We now

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 40
1
have one in Madison County that's just
opening.
We don't have a wild pig/feral swine
problem in Madison County, but at our
Morgan County mitigation area, which is
750 acres, I got to see firsthand what
happened.
property, it had a thousand head of
cattle on it.
When we purchased the
So there was -- it was
10
all in agriculture and cattle grazing.
11
And we planted 160,000 hardwood trees by
12
hand, bottomland hardwoods.
13
about the third year, the wild pigs came
14
in.
15
monitoring, so I saw firsthand what was
16
happening.
And after
17
And I was out there doing the
I'm sure that you all know, you
18
know, what kind of destruction they
19
make.
20
about our situation is that because we
21
had established this for wetland
22
mitigation, there was a binding
23
conservation easement over the entire
But what was really interesting

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 41
1
property and there was no hunting
allowed in it.
happened with the swines, we needed to
change that.
interagency review team and get all of
the federal and state agencies to agree
that we could bring in hunters, which we
were able to do.
And when we saw what
So we had to get with the
But I think that the pigs are just
10
extremely smart, just like the deer
11
are.
12
over and they come around.
13
are doing the same thing.
14
They know when hunting season is

And the pigs
Our property is about -- I don't
15
know -- 15 miles from Bankhead Forest,
16
and there's a lot of connecting
17
watersheds between the areas so that
18
they can travel back and forth.
19
don't know.
20
months ago I read in the paper that
21
there was now open season on the swines,
22
and I was really glad.
23
I thought that anytime that they saw one
And I
Maybe it was about two
I think that --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 42
1
that they could kill it.
to some friends at Bankhead Forest and
found out that that did not include the
Wildlife Management Areas.
experience with the wild hogs, they know
where they can go and have protection.
So that's what they do.
8
9
But I talked
So in my
So if there -- if the issue comes up

where you are looking at changing the
10
rules for the Wildlife Management Areas,
11
I would say let's get the pigs out
12
because, otherwise, they just come in
13
and take over.
14
15
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16
17
The next speaker will be Jack

Cropp.
18
19
Thank you, Ms. Robinson.
Hold on.
MR. HARTZOG:
Hold on.
Hold on.
Gary, what is the Department
20
looking at about trying to change the
21
WMAs?
22
plans or ...
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
What are y'all's thoughts or
Mr. Moody.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 43
1
MR. MOODY:
I think the board knows that the
management area is in partnership with
the U.S. Forest Service.
very, very closely with the U.S. Forest
Service not only on this issue but every
issue that comes up up there.
national forest is not in the Wildlife
Management Area.
national forest outside the Wildlife
And we work
All the
The part of the
10
Management Area has just as many pigs as
11
Bankhead or a good population of pigs.
12
The seasons are different.
13
season that's affecting the pigs and
14
everything.
15
good population.
It's not the
It's just they've got a
16
We are discussing -- most of y'all
17
know Frank Boyd who works with the USDA
18
Wildlife Services.
19
several times to provide advice and
20
information to the Forest Service on
21
traps and trapping and met with citizens
22
groups on traps and trapping.
23
probably the most effective way to deal
He's been up there
That is

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 44
1
with the population as a whole if we
want to do that.
right now with the Forest Service, and
if they are willing, we're willing to
permit individuals to run some traps in
the wilderness area.
We are in discussions
So that's sort of where we are right
now.
But pigs can be hunted up there
anytime there is a hunting season, and
10
we have a special hog-hunting season up
11
there.
12
turkey season there is hunting pressure
13
on the pigs anyway.
14
15
16
So from August to the end of
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Moody, Commissioner
has a question.
COMMISSIONER GUY:
Help me out here.
Isn't
17
there an issue about getting into the
18
Bankhead National Forest, like the
19
ability to get vehicles in there?
20
MR. MOODY:
In the wilderness area.
It's a
21
large area, 20 -- I forget the exact --
22
20-something-thousand acres.
23
no vehicles allowed period for any
There are

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 45
1
purpose.
So it's all walk-in.
And that
is a limiting factor on putting pressure
on --
COMMISSIONER GUY:
MR. MOODY:
Trapping.
-- that population with trapping
or hunting or anything else.
you just -- it's just a long ways in and
a long ways out and it's very
difficult.
10
11
I mean,
Horses can go in and wagons
can go in, but no motorized vehicles.

COMMISSIONER GUY:
Do you think the Forest
12
Service would allow an agency or would
13
work to help get traffic inside there
14
different, you know, than the public?
15
MR. MOODY:
No.
And I say that because the
16
work that Frank did, they had to
17
hand-carry everything in and out.
18
19
20
21
COMMISSIONER GUY:
They wouldn't make any
exception even for our people?

MR. MOODY:
No.
I mean, we'll ask again and
we will inquire.
22
COMMISSIONER GUY:
23
MR. MOODY:
Please do.
But it's our understanding that

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 46
1
they're bound by a national law that
they're dealing with.
local people up there so much.
just the federal law that they're
working under.
6
7
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
It's
But we will inquire.

Very good.
Thank you very
much.
8
9
It's not the
The next speaker will be Jack Cropp.

MR. CROPP:
Mr. Chairman, Members of the
10
Board, Mr. Guy, Members of the
11
Conservation Department, my name is Jack
12
Cropp, and I'm from Pell City in
13
St. Clair County, District 2.
14
all, let me say that those of us who
15
enjoy using the Alabama outdoor
16
resources appreciate what y'all do for
17
us.
18
First of
We thank you.
I'm sure that you've heard a lot of
19
people in Alabama say that if you need
20
to bait to kill a deer in Alabama, you
21
probably need to find yourself another
22
hobby.
23
but the reality is, if you discount all
There's a lot of truth to that,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 47
1
the deer that's killed in food plots,
over trophy rocks, salt licks, and other
legal means of baiting, there wouldn't
be many left.
go ahead and legalize baiting, like
they've done in a lot of other states,
before the legislature comes up with
something that can't nobody understand.
So I'd like to see y'all
Now, I don't think there's any doubt
10
in anybody's mind that Dr. Strickland is
11
a professional and expert archery
12
hunter.
13
couple of years ago the reason he was
14
opposed to shooting a turkey with a
15
crossbow was because we needed to
16
protect them.
17
Alabama Outdoor Youth quoted
18
Dr. Strickland as saying that an arrow
19
was not designed to kill a turkey.
20
And Dr. Strickland told me a
And more recently the
Gentlemen, if those are the cases,
21
then you need to ban all archery hunting
22
for turkeys.
23
like to see you give the crossbow the
But, otherwise, I would

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 48
1
same status as any other archery
equipment and take that turkey-hunting
restriction off.
You know, a lot -- in closing, a lot
of folks quit hunting when they get
older because they feel like the
challenge is a little more than they
want to put up with.
in some of these Wildlife Management
And I notice that
10
Areas you have areas set aside where the
11
experience is not quite as challenging
12
for the handicap.
13
make those areas available to the
14
elderly as well, and you could call them
15
areas for the elderly and other handicap
16
hunters.
17
18
That's all I have.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
19
20
21
22
23
I'd like to see you
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Cropp.
Dr. Strickland, would you like a

chance to respond to your comments?
MR. STRICKLAND:
Jack, do you know my weapon
of choice for turkeys?

MR. CROPP:
Beg your pardon?

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 49
1
2
MR. STRICKLAND:
Do you know my weapon of
choice for turkeys?
My weapon of choice --
MR. CROPP:
Probably a shotgun.
MR. STRICKLAND:
-- is a 12-gauge
three-and-a-half inch Magnum HEVI-Shot;
okay?
8
9
10
11
MR. CROPP:
14
I use
two-and-three-quarters.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Cropp.
12
13
Okay.
The next speaker will be Randal

Chappell.
MR. CHAPPELL:
15
Mr. Commissioner, Members of the Board.
16
My name is Randal Chappell.
17
Blount County.
18
and have for about the past seven years
19
now.
20
about the extension of the -- the
21
possibility of the extension of the deer
22
season into February and the baiting
23
issue.
I live in
I hunt in Lamar County
And I want to address the board

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 50
1
As Commissioner Guy mentioned, the
legislation which has been put into
effect in Montgomery, Senate Bill Number
124, does say to extend the season and
also to allow bait.
to this, to both of these points.
I'm in opposition
And there was an article in the
Birmingham News last week in which the
cosponsor of that bill mentioned that he
10
had spoke with Commissioner Guy about
11
this.
12
the possibility of closing the deer
13
season for up to three weeks in
14
December, even though that is not
15
mentioned in the bill.
16
opposed to that.
17
And in that article it mentioned
And I'm strongly
Where we hunt in Lamar County, we
18
see some good rut activity at the end of
19
December, first part of January.
20
Closing that season the first part of
21
December would take away our prerut
22
period, which is, as you know, a
23
rewarding time to hunt.
And I would

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 51
1
2
hate to lose that.

I also believe that extending that
season into late February, if it was
done on a statewide basis and if it was
not a buck-only season, there would be a
lot of pregnant does that would be
susceptible to being harvested.
8
9
Also, I would think that the lease

prices -- this was addressed in the last
10
meeting according to the minutes, which
11
I've read.
12
Mr. Hatley.
13
that lease prices could really jump and
14
hurt those of us that are the average
15
hunter by having such a late season in
16
which other hunters from out of state
17
could possibly come in and drive up our
18
land lease prices.
19
And I believe it was

There's a good possibility
And another reason is as the small
20
game hunters are so greatly presenting
21
here, the small game season is in
22
February.
23
I took up bow hunting.
I quit small game hunting and

I'm looking to

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 52
1
get back into that.
daughter.
or four years I want to introduce her to
the woods.
is the best way to do that instead of
sitting still and quiet in a deer
stand.
crowded when I'm introducing her to the
hunting sport to carry on that legacy.
10
I have a young
Hopefully, in another three
I believe small game hunting
I don't want that area to be
Also, the baiting issue.
By
11
legalizing baiting, some say it will
12
just level the playing field.
13
disagree.
14
would not do it still, but then you
15
would have those that don't do it now
16
because they're law-abiding citizens
17
that would start doing it to compete
18
with their neighbors.
19
hurt more, I believe.
20
I believe there are many who
That would even
And if the -- I don't know what the
21
fine is.
I've been told it's about 250
22
bucks.
23
up, then I believe that would help cut
If that fine was jacked way, way

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 53
1
out some of that baiting as well as a
disclaimer on these businesses that sell
corn hot and heavy during the deer
season that -- to remind people that it
is illegal.
Also, I just want to thank you for
the good job that you've done through
the years taking these things into
consideration and -- so that family and
10
friends of the legacy of hunting can
11
continue on in a good way.
12
you for protecting the resources of
13
Alabama the way that you have through
14
the years.
15
16
17
18
19
And thank
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
The next speaker will be Frank

Fischer.
MR. FINCHER:
Fischer.
That's Fincher.
It's Fincher.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
21
MR. FINCHER:
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23
MR. FINCHER:
That ain't
Fincher.
Fincher.
Frank Fincher.
Excuse me, sir.
All right.
But I represent the

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 54
1
dog hunters in southwest Alabama, the
main thing, the rabbit hunters.
a little thing here.
a speaker, now, so bear with me.
think everything I wrote down here has
done been brought before you here about
the rabbit hunters.
8
9
I wrote
I ain't that good

I
What I didn't write is about the hog

hunting.
Up there at Scotch, the Delta
10
where we had the dog hunt, we killed a
11
bunch of hogs up there with them dogs
12
and shooting -- you know, shooting them
13
with buckshot.
14
you from experience at Scotch and the
15
Upper Delta, if you got hogs, then you
16
don't have no deer.
17
to stay where you have hogs.
18
And, look, I can tell
Deer is not going
And I have been to -- every time
19
Dr. Smith had a seminar on hog hunting
20
in the south part of Alabama I've been
21
to it.
22
dollars' worth of horse panels, trap
23
gates.
I've got a couple of thousand
And I can tell you,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 55
1
Dr. Strickland, it's hard to trap a
hog.
ain't near about as smart as a hog.
found that out real fast.
to kill them hogs is with them hogs -- I
mean, with the dogs and a shotgun.
A deer, it don't do -- a deer

I
The best way
And if you -- what I'm trying to
say, if you extend this deer season out
into February, I'm definitely against
10
that, which that's really done been
11
brought up.
12
waiting on the 1st of February to go hog
13
hunting.
14
hunt with hogs, rabbits, anything during
15
the daytime when deer season is in,
16
especially this dog season.
17
I got hog hunters that's
You can't -- you cannot dog
And, now, you can take -- I wish you
18
would put -- give us another few days on
19
that dog season at Scotch and the Upper
20
Delta where them hogs is thick, and
21
maybe we can kill some of them.
22
seen a lot of them killed in both places
23
this last year.
I've
That's all.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 56
1
Wait a minute.
thing?
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. FINCHER:
Can I say one more
Yes, sir.
Y'all last year come up with the
supplemental feed and it died on deer.
And I don't own a lot of land, but I got
brothers and family and we got a lot of
land in south Alabama.
would bring that up and get the
And I wish y'all
10
supplemental feed.
11
last year when it got -- it got confused
12
there and it died.
13
bring that back up because that's -- we
14
need it.
15
16
19
And I wish you would
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
17
18
You know, I was here
The next speaker will be Danny

Foster.
MR. FOSTER:
Good morning, gentlemen.
I'm
20
Danny Foster from Pell City, Alabama,
21
St. Clair County.
22
board meeting I've ever been to.
23
This is the first
What got me here, I'm just a little

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 57
1
deer hunter, and I don't -- a lot of
times we read this stuff.
know, they say you can go on line --
this gentleman over here went on line
and got this bill.
got me here was this little article in
the Birmingham News on Saturday, 3-5.
It talked about closing the season three
weeks in December.
10
And, you
What we got -- what
And I don't know -- I know all these
11
gentlemen know that the rut happens at
12
different times in Alabama.
13
Randolph County.
14
Alabama line, and the Georgia line on
15
one section of our land is all the
16
same.
17
I hunt in
Our property line, the
Now, I don't know how all these deer
18
were stocked, but my point is, my
19
brother killed a big eight-point -- I've
20
been down there 20 years.
21
big eight-point on December the 6th.
22
seen a big eight-point chasing a doe on
23
December the 26th.
He killed a
I
And I think that's

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 58
1
about when it ends.
extending the season and I'm sure not
for closing it.
And I'm not for
I got a lot of money tied up in
equipment.
We got leased land.
We try
to feed them soybeans and iron clay peas
in the summer.
sitting at home when the bucks --
everybody knows that's when you got your
And I don't want to be
10
best chance at shooting a good buck,
11
during the rut.
12
can probably go right on to Chambers
13
County and the rut is going to be the
14
end of January.
15
guys I hunt with, ours is December the
16
6th every year till about December the
17
26th.
And I just don't want to lose
18
that.
That's why I'm here.
19
20
21
22
23
And while ours rut, you
But for me and three
Thank you, sirs.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
question.
Thank you.
We've got a
COMMISSIONER GUY:
Commissioner Guy.
Mr. Foster, who is quoted
in that article?

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 59
1
2
3
Not me, I know.
Who's quoting about
closing -MR. FOSTER:
Well, it says Senator Whatley has
introduced the bill, and Senator -- and
I don't know if I can say his name.
starts with a "K".
COMMISSIONER GUY:
MR. FOSTER:
COMMISSIONER GUY:
10
MR. FOSTER:
It
Keahey.
Keahey.
Okay.
He's -- I think he's a democratic
11
cosponsor.
12
other gentleman.
13
don't think we need our legislators and
14
stuff making our laws.
15
come out good with y'all getting
16
recommendations from biologists and
17
stuff and the advisory board making
18
them.
19
Basically, I'm like the

I don't want -- I
I think it's
Thank you.
20
COMMISSIONER GUY:
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you, sir.

Mr. Foster, I notice the
22
name of your hunting club is Dead Exe
23
Hunting Club.
Is there any -- how did

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 60
1
that name come about?
MR. FOSTER:
It's the Dead Eye Hunting Club.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
misspelling.
MR. FOSTER:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
10
11
12
I picked the name Dead Eye -I just wanted to make
(Unintelligible portion.)
MR. FOSTER:
When you're in Vietnam, you learn
to shoot well.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Very good.
Thank you very
much.
13
Okay.
14
Steve Huffaker.
15
We have a
sure --
8
9
Oh, okay.
MR. HUFFAKER:
16
Mr. Commissioner, Members of the Board.
17
This is my first time here, so y'all
18
bear with me.
19
these folks that were before me, so I'm
20
going to probably read a prepared speech
21
if you don't mind.
22
23
I'm not as eloquent as
As administrator -- excuse me.
I'm
from Baldwin County, Bay Minette,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 61
1
Alabama, too, by the way.
2
3
MR. DEAN:
Sir, excuse me.
I'm sorry.
Would
you mind reading that just a little bit
slower so she can get this.
MR. HUFFAKER:
Slower.
Sure.
talk too fast.
three minutes in.
9
10
11
12
MR. DEAN:
I'm sorry.
I was trying to get my
That's okay.
We'll give you a
couple -CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
We're going to give you
time.
13
14
MR. HUFFAKER:
I'll start over if that's okay.
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16
MR. HUFFAKER:
That will be fine.
As administrator of the Website
17
Extenddeerseason.com, I have read over
18
4,000 e-mails in favor of extending deer
19
season to have the opportunity to hunt
20
the rut mainly in south Alabama.
21
received these e-mails in approximately
22
30 days and had, also, over 1,000 visits
23
on our Facebook page.
We've
This is a

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 62
1
grassroots campaign.
We haven't spent
any money in advertising.
three points I would like to talk about
in my allotted time.
There are
The first being I've heard from
different people that we are for this if
it doesn't hurt the resource.
response that we would have to that is
we are surrounded by states that their
The
10
deer season goes through the rut and in
11
some cases the post-rut.
12
consider the state of Texas that has the
13
largest white-tailed herd in the
14
continental United States.
15
states' resources have not been harmed
16
by hunting the rut or the post-rut.
17
Then you
All of these
Also, where I hunt in Monroe County,
18
farmers in a ten-mile radius have been
19
issued over 500 permits each year to
20
take deer out that damage their crops.
21
How many people would that feed if they
22
were harvested in the extended season
23
rather than left to rot in the fields?

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 63
1
The second point is from an economic
standpoint.
Hunting is a
billion-dollar-plus business in
Alabama.
dollars in leases, management of their
properties, and other related items.
With a three-buck limit and many clubs
and individuals practicing QMA
recommendations, they're letting the
Hunters spend thousands of
10
young bucks walk so that they will have
11
the opportunity to kill a mature buck.
12
And they are not reaping the rewards of
13
harvesting a mature buck since they're
14
not getting to hunt the rut.
15
Many clubs are having a hard time
16
filling their memberships, and lodges
17
are hurting.
18
our hunters are quitting the sport or
19
going to other states to hunt.
20
out-of-state hunters, who contribute a
21
large portion of the DCNR's funding, are
22
considering no longer hunting in
23
Alabama, and many of them are going to
This continues and many of
The

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 64
1
other states where they can hunt the rut
and have the opportunity to kill
wildlife.
Also, the merchants and vendors of
the state could certainly use the extra
revenue that this would generate.
There's a lot of support for charging an
additional fee to hunt the extended
season.
This would generate thousands
10
of dollars which would help DCNR's
11
financial status, plus possibly allow
12
for raises for game wardens and
13
biologists, which is needed.
14
Also, in regards to economics, one
15
of the major insurance companies in the
16
state just released a two-year study
17
that showed a 25-percent increase in
18
deer-vehicle accidents at a cost of
19
$85 million.
20
was a one-in-200 chance that a wreck
21
will occur involving a deer.
22
23
They also found that there
The third and final point is that

discussion has been there needs to be

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 65
1
more study done or we need to form a
committee to look at this before it can
be considered or recommended.
to you today somewhere over 4,000
e-mails in that box from hunters who
have experience from five to 50 years.
If you just take the low end of that of
five years, it gives you approximately
20,000 years of study.
I present
With trail
10
cameras and QMA and other technology,
11
you have an educated and informed hunter
12
today.
13
have the same opportunity that all the
14
other states have in the -- and give us
15
in the south an opportunity to hunt the
16
rut.
17
18
19
Thank you very much for your time.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
22
23
Mr. Huffaker.
20
21
The only thing I ask you is to
The next speaker will be Michael

Wade Jones.
MR. JONES:
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, and
All Board Members, I oppose the two-week

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 66
1
extended season in February, first of
all, because I'm a country boy.
God I'm a country boy.
said it best.
tradition.
Thank
Ol' Bocephus
It's just a family
We all like rabbit hunting, and we
understand that -- being from the south,
50 years old, we always have small game
hunting.
When they took -- when they
10
took you off your feet and put you in
11
the air, they took the hunting out of
12
hunting.
13
Now you're not hunting.
14
You're sitting there waiting.
So I would like to say that when
15
you're running dogs and you're hunting,
16
you have to respect your fellow man.
17
You're hunting with people in the stands
18
taking shots at you.
19
when you feel in the environment that
20
you are safe.
21
You want to hunt
So I would like for the board
22
members and everyone else to realize
23
that we all participate in hunting.
We

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 67
1
all like hunting.
we didn't like it.
there to hunt, we want to feel safe.
First of all, put respective people --
you don't want to be shot at.
want your dogs to be shot.
We wouldn't do it if
So when we get out
You don't
From the pressure that the dogs
have -- the rabbit have on them as far
as the predators, your coyotes, your
10
foxes, they don't run like they used
11
to.
12
And that way, if you got 2500 acres of
13
land to hunt, they might veer off on
14
somebody else land.
15
come to where it was first jumped at.
16
So we got to take that into
17
consideration.
18
They run long and straight now.
The rabbit never
But a person hunting, if your dog --
19
if your dogs run across his hunt, he'll
20
say that you interrupted his hunt and
21
he's got an attitude.
22
don't really know the boundary that
23
they're going to run on and you don't
But the dog, they

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 68
1
want them to run on.
make the circle and come back.
You want them to
So we -- we respect -- our deal
about rabbit hunting, you respect
people.
ain't got the statistics of how many --
or how much revenue it bring in because
I'm so country that it don't make no
difference.
You don't want to take -- I
Mine is -- my revenue is a
10
bag limit of eight rabbits per day.
11
Eight rabbits per day will not equal to
12
the meat of one big buck.
13
doing it because it's something that you
14
like and that's something that you want
15
to continue.
16
But we're
So that's why I'm standing here
17
today is I don't want an extension.
18
want to still get the bag limit of eight
19
a day.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
21
22
23
Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Jones.

The next speaker will be Don
Knight.
MR. KNIGHT:
I'm Don

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 69
1
Knight, president of the Alabama Dog
Hunters Association and a hunter.
Boy, I was all set to fire off about
the extending of deer season where we
were opposed to it because my phone has
been lit up since that article came out
in the paper like a blinking Christmas
tree light from rabbit hunters, coon
hunters.
10
You got to stop and think about the
11
coon hunters too.
12
their competitions in February because
13
the land is available.
14
them.
15
And you've heard some great speeches
16
today from the rabbit hunters.
17
think that needs to be gone into any
18
further.
19
They have a lot of
So consider
You've got the squirrel hunters.
I don't
But I want to thank you very much
20
for -- Commissioner, Dan, all of you
21
fellows -- for looking into this thing
22
like you are.
23
reason to do something with the deer
If it's a biological

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 70
1
herd, we will be in support of it.
biological people have done us a great
job.
got a herd like we've got today.
And I
think they need to be commended.
They
need to be listened to.
opinion is by the facts that they get
needs to make the decision.
Our
I think that's the reason we've
And what their
As for the season, I belong to a
10
club in Talladega County.
It's kind of
11
like the gentleman said.
12
in somewhere between December the 9th
13
and the 12th every year when we're still
14
hunting up there.
Our rut comes
15
My dog club is in Barbour County.
16
You can go across 431 toward the river
17
and you can shoot deer in the rut in
18
November that come out of Georgia.
19
That's the way they've been put in there
20
and stocked and all.
21
five miles to where we dog hunt and they
22
don't come in till January.
23
know, where would you draw the line in
You can come over
So, you

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 71
1
breaking up the counties?
I mean, you've got to stop and think
about dove season, the complications,
the problems, people wanting the line
moved, people -- you're going to have
the same thing again if you extend this
season.
8
9
10
11
But I wanted to go into that.
Dan, does this include my

dog-hunting time too?
I had two of them
down there.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Don, you have enough
12
tenure that we're going to allow you to
13
continue speaking.
14
15
MR. KNIGHT:
I've been here too long.

Okay.
On the dog-hunting issues,
16
Mr. Grady, the Big Horn Club has sent me
17
their maps.
18
of things they intend to do and try to
19
offset any problem they have.
20
things that they're trying to do has to
21
do with accountability and
22
responsibility, which is what we want
23
them to do.
They have sent me a listing
All the
I'm waiting on the map from

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 72
1
the opposition that don't want the dog
hunting over there.
them, we'll settle down.
together.
maybe some areas that we don't need to
dog hunt in there to stop these
problems.
continue to work on these problems, and
we appreciate y'all giving them the time
10
11
As soon as I get
We'll put them
We will try to come up with
We're going to set down and
to get these issues stopped.

On another issue with the dog
12
hunting in the northwest counties and
13
all that's been closed down, I've gotten
14
several calls lately -- matter of fact,
15
I've got a lot of calls lately -- of
16
people that are disgruntled.
17
had people just quit hunting when we did
18
away with those hunting -- dog hunting
19
up there.
20
Now, we
These people are still still hunting
21
at this time, but what it has done to
22
them is broke up their family atmosphere
23
at their hunting club.
Previously you'd

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 73
1
get together with 50 of your friends
that you've been growing up with and
running dogs and have a big social
issue.
they've had to -- to be able to lease
their land, they've had to bring in a
lot of people from outside.
period of time maybe it will get back
that way.
10
11
Now it's got to the point that
Now, over a
But in that period of time
you're losing a lot of hunters.

I want to just ask you, when these
12
clubs come in and ask for a permit in
13
those counties, please give it strong
14
consideration.
15
people back hunting as quick as we can.
16
If any issues come up, please feel free
17
to call me.
18
will help any way I can.
19
consideration for our rabbit hunters,
20
our squirrel hunters, and our just
21
overall people that hunt.
22
get more people hunting, not less people
23
hunting.
We need to get these
I will work on them.
Take
We need to

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 74
1
2
3

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mattocks.
MR. MATTOCKS:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
The next speaker is Louie
Good morning, Gentlemen.

Speak into the microphone,
please, Mr. Mattocks.
MR. MATTOCKS:
Is that better?
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. MATTOCKS:
That's better.
Oh, okay.
My name is Louie
10
Mattocks.
11
Beauregard, which is on the Lee
12
County/Russell County/Macon County
13
lines.
14
I'm from outside of
And I'm a rabbit hunter.
And you might want to know what I
15
want to talk about today, and that's I'm
16
against the extension of deer season
17
into February.
18
preliminary report basically that -- on
19
the effect on the deer population.
20
everybody's pointed out -- there's
21
nothing I can say except to repeat what
22
has already been said here.
23
We just heard the
And
I do think that some of the deer

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 75
1
hunters are shortsighted in this.
We --
the deer -- the wildlife of Alabama
shouldn't be a revenue source.
shouldn't be the primary reason.
when we start bringing in -- I know we
have out-of-state hunters, and I know
there's a pile of them.
that was lost two years ago.
management company -- the lease went
That
And
We had a lease
The
10
from $8 to $12 an acre.
And the deer
11
hunters who let us rabbit hunt on it
12
during deer season, a lot of them
13
decided they couldn't afford it
14
anymore.
15
we see Florida tags pull in all the
16
time.
The lease was gone.
And now
17
That's just the way it is.

I don't -- I think the landowners
18
who hunt and the deer hunters -- if you
19
go into February, what you're going to
20
have happen is people get out of
21
hunting.
22
pack.
23
a lot of money on them every year.
Myself, I'll have to sell my
Like the gentleman said, I spend

And

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 76
1
for two weeks out of the year when the
briars are greening up and it gets
warmer, it's just not worth it.
that point I'll probably quit hunting.
And at
And for the deer hunters I'd like to
say there's no better way to scout their
property and find that big buck.
mean, when you can't find him from the
stand, a rabbit hunter's probably going
10
to be able to tell you what thicket he's
11
going through and why he sees your stand
12
before you see him.
13
14
15
That's really all I have to say.

Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16
17
The next speaker is Kelvin Bailey.

MR. BAILEY:
Good morning.
I'd like to thank
18
you for the opportunity to come and
19
listen.
20
I own about 120-acre farm in Blount
21
County, Alabama, just a little north of
22
Oneonta.
23
I come to you as a landowner.
I'm a bow hunter.
The problem I have year after year

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 77
1
is dog hunters.
there -- they usually come out about
seven o'clock in the morning.
all year long getting my property
ready.
placed.
running.
usually they'll get some kind of
permission from somebody that owns like
I scout.
They usually come in
I spend
I've got stands
I know where my deer's

I know where they are.
And
10
ten acres, and they'll let loose about
11
ten dogs on it.
12
Well, the reason they do that is
13
because you can see the deer going
14
around my property, jumping across the
15
road, whatever, as they go out through
16
there.
17
get on that ten acres and run their dogs
18
across my property.
19
So what they'll do is they'll
Me, as a landowner, that's a
20
violation of my rights.
Dog
21
trespassing -- I know they don't know
22
English.
23
in my eyes that's just like a person
I know they can't read.
But

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 78
1
trespassing.
You know, they have dogs.
They should do everything they can for
their livelihood and the well-being of
that dog just like we do as children --
or for our children.
So what I'd like to see done is if
Blount County or even the northern part
of Blount County could -- there could be
some kind of restriction there saying
10
that if you don't own or have a lease of
11
at least 500 acres, then you shouldn't
12
be allowed to run dogs.
13
really all I have to say.
14
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. BAILEY:
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
19
Very good.
Thank you,
Mr. Bailey.
16
18
And that's
Thank you.
The next speaker is Scott
Cherones.
MR. CHERONES:
Commissioner Guy, Mr. Moultrie,
20
how are y'all?
21
My name is Scott Cherones.
22
Helena, Alabama.
23
Advisory Board Members.

I'm from
How you doing, Brock?

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 79
1
I happen to own some land and hunt
in Chilton County, however, and just
wanted to echo the last speaker's
challenges with specifically deer dog
hunting.
that is just out of control with dog --
deer dogs during the stalk-hunting
season traversing other people's
properties.
And we have a terrible problem
And it is a -- really, I
10
want you guys to know that, you know, we
11
respect the rights of the dog hunters to
12
help carry on that tradition.
13
the reason that this is an allowed
14
practice in the state of Alabama,
15
obviously, because it's such a
16
well-rooted tradition.
17
at least in our part of the county, are
18
-- have to do with other landowners'
19
rights and the infringement of those
20
rights.
21
That's
But the issues,
It's just a terrible problem.
In the same tradition line of
22
thinking, I have had a very difficult
23
time getting my own family brought up in

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 80
1
the tradition of still hunting, which is
how I learned how to deer hunt, because
almost every time I'm on a deer stand or
trying to teach my children how to hunt
there are deer dogs running all over my
property and disturbing our ability to,
you know, hunt in a way that we would
like to hunt.
arena where one group's actions infringe
I really know of no other
10
so terribly on another group's actions
11
and it's allowed and even encouraged as
12
it is in the state of Alabama and, in
13
particular, in my area of Chilton County
14
where I own property and hunt.
15
But I really -- that's the main
16
points.
I just -- you know, my mother
17
is a bird watcher, and she's even had
18
issues with the deer dogs disturbing her
19
ability on my property to do that.
20
Because she's concerned about these dogs
21
barking, worried that they're going to
22
bother her.
23
big problem in that area.
I mean, it's just a really

And several

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 81
1
of my adjacent landowners and even
neighbors not adjacent are here today
with the same issue.
4
5
6
Anyway, that's all I have to say,

let you guys be aware of.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Cherones.
Mr. Cherones, I think I was reading
through the different either complaints
of the people for dog deer hunting or
10
against deer hunting.
Was it you that
11
had the complaint that people were still
12
dog deer hunting in the last two weeks
13
of January when it was supposed to be
14
banned?
15
MR. CHERONES:
Is that correct?
No.
That's one of my neighbors
16
who will also speak.
17
that time to witness it, but that was on
18
the same -- in the same general area
19
that I'm -- where my property is.
20
21
22
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
I wasn't there at
Very good.
Thank
you.
The next speaker will be Paul
Jeffreys.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 82
1
2
3
MR. JEFFREYS:
Excuse me.
I'm not used to
standing still while I speak.

I think I need to probably start
signing up under other topics because I
usually come up here in the discussion
against dog deer hunting, but there's
been other topics come up that I'm --
that I'm also interested in.
wife is always -- all the time on me
And my
10
that I need to list some of my
11
credentials.
12
tooting my own horn or blowing my own
13
whistle, but I'm going to give this a
14
shot and see how it goes.
15
And I'm not too well at
But, anyway, not to read straight
16
off a resume, I am an instructor at
17
Mississippi State University College of
18
Forest Resources.
19
degree in forestry.
20
degree in forest genetics.
21
pending Ph.D. student in forestry with a
22
minor in extension education.
23
a lot of conservation education
I have a bachelor's
I have a master's
I'm a
So I have

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 83
1
background.
I also have received a lot
of wildlife management education.
So I chose Mississippi State
University just because it was in the
proximity of my home, not to choose it
over Auburn.
bit closer.
don't want to ruffle any feathers.
by the way, we did help with the
But it was just a little

So I didn't want to -- I
And,
10
analysis of the dirt from the trees at
11
Toomer's Corner.
12
that clear.
13
okay?
14
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
15
MR. JEFFREYS:
So I just want to make
Our lab helped with that;
Appreciate it.
So I hear a lot from
16
Mississippi hunters about their hunting
17
season.
18
about changing or closing dates in the
19
middle of the deer season.
20
my colleagues in office, they're
21
Mississippi hunters.
22
have a license -- Mississippi license.
23
I hunt over there also.
And I've heard some people talk
And a lot of
I -- actually, I

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 84
1
But they really fuss and complain
every year about their split seasons and
what they're -- what they have to put up
with.
and then they go to rifle and then they
stop and go back to primitive and then
go back to rifle.
how lucky we are because we have just
the straight season and that our season
Because they start muzzle loading
And they talk about
10
ends when it's supposed to.
11
is -- that's something that they envy us
12
about.
13
And that
Another thing is Mississippi has
14
lengthened their deer season in the
15
south part of the state because of the
16
rut.
17
believe.
18
wildlife department, and I know
19
Dr. Demarais down there, our wildlife --
20
or deer researcher.
It goes to February the 15th, I

And I work upstairs from the
21
And I can ask the biologists here.
22
If I'm not mistaken, I think the rut is
23
actually triggered from the daylight

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 85
1
gleaned from the deer's eye.
not -- it's probably a genetic problem
more than it is -- you know, and it's
probably going longer because we have
too many does.
bred.
We have such a bad -- or such an offset
ratio that we cannot -- that the bucks
are unable to breed the does in that
10
11
So it's
They're just not getting
It's starting at the same time.
amount of time.
So for once I'd like to commend -- I
12
talked to Don Knight.
I actually agree
13
with him.
14
lengthen this deer season.
15
like to encourage all of y'all to listen
16
to our biologists because that's what --
17
you know, my education is in research.
18
I've done data analysis.
19
lot of our -- everything we do is based
20
on numbers and data that's collected.
21
We go in the field and collect --
I don't think we need to

And I would
And we base a
22
I know.
I've got to finish up.
23
-- data that's being collected in

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 86
1
the field.
on that.
make any rash decisions about
lengthening the deer season, we need to
look at the data and really try to key
in on what is the problem -- I mean,
what is causing it to go into February
and correcting that and maybe bringing
the breeding period back.
10
So it's all -- it is based

And we need to -- before we
I don't think it's something that --
11
I don't -- it's not the deer changing.
12
It's not the genetics changing in the
13
deer.
14
thousands and thousands of years ever
15
since, you know, God created them.
16
what we need to work on is seeing what
17
we -- something has changed in their
18
daily routine that has caused them to go
19
into February to breed.
20
need to do is we need to listen to our
21
biologists and see what we can do to
22
bring that back.
23
Because it's been that way for
Okay.
But
And what we
I'm also a landowner and

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 87
1
hunter in Lamar County.
We enjoy our
ban that we received on dog deer
hunting.
they don't lie.
complaints from landowners.
down to four.
numbers and see how that has worked over
the past few years.
success story.
And talking about numbers,

We do not have any
We went
So let's look at those
And that's been a
So I just ask that y'all
10
maintain our ban in our northwest
11
counties.
12
Thank you.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14
MR. BROCK JONES:
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16
questions.
17
Jones.
18
MR. BROCK JONES:
Thank you, Mr. Jeffreys.

Mr. Chairman?
Yes.
I've got two
Mr. Jones first.
Mr. Brock
If we could get Chris Cook
19
to address the issue of whether there is
20
a trend in his study so far on the rut
21
extending into February or if it's
22
just -- this past year just happened to
23
be an off year that that happened to

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 88
1
2
take place.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Jones, we're going to
go into that in a later part of the --
their division is going to present a
report on that.
adequate to present then --
MR. BROCK JONES:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Sure.
-- so we can expedite
going through the public section?
10
Thank you.
11
Mr. Hatley.
12
13
14
Is that going to be
MR. HATLEY:
Paul, what does the acronym ASLC
stand for?
MR. JEFFREYS:
Alabama Sportsman's and
15
Landowner's Council.
And when I first
16
started coming down here back when I was
17
just a young'un -- and you were probably
18
a few years younger yourself -- that was
19
the name of our organization.
20
I still do -- I work with that group.
21
So I am in their organization, and we
22
do -- we are supporting the landowner's
23
property rights when it comes to
And we --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 89
1
trespassing.
And, if I could, can I -- I was not
saying that it was just an off year with
the deer.
over time that our -- our deer
population has gotten so skewed to one
side with buck-doe ratio that the bucks
are just not -- you know, they can't
handle the pressure.
10
11
I'm saying it has progressed
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
We'll have a very good
report on that here shortly.
12
MR. JEFFREYS:
Thank you.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14
MR. HARTZOG:
Very good.
Thank you.
When you did your soil sample of
15
the Auburn soil, did you recommend more
16
poison?
17
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
that.
Let me clear the record on
That was Mr. Grady Hartzog.
19
Thank you, Mr. Jeffreys.
20
The next speaker will be Michael
21
22
23
Lathem.
MR. LATHEM:
Michael Lathem.
I'm
I'm a neighbor of Scott

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 90
1
Cherones.
of 65, between 65 and Lake Mitchell.
We're in Chilton County east
And I would like to echo his
comments about the nature of the dog
hunting in our area of the county.
seems to be an increasing problem with
dogs running across our property and
being -- the dogs are being
indiscriminantly let out on very small
It
10
tracts and running across our land, and
11
it's taking the enjoyment out of hunting
12
for me and my family.
13
boys, and they've just about quit going
14
because just about every time we go this
15
experience is hampered by dogs running
16
in around us.
17
And I have young
I've had several conversations with
18
dog hunters in the area, and they don't
19
seem to care that their dogs are
20
crossing property lines and infringing
21
on our land.
22
it's all their land.
And it's hard to
23
change the attitude.
And trying to
Again, they feel like that

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 91
1
respect them and get them to try to
change behavior has been difficult, but
we are trying to do that in a very
constructive way.
to consider changing the law and
restricting the dog hunting in that area
if at all possible.
8
9
I would ask you guys
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Lathem, Commissioner
10
Guy asked a question that -- is this one
11
particular club that is giving y'all
12
problems or dog hunting in general in
13
that area?
14
MR. LATHEM:
It's hard for me to say.
I don't
15
know all the individuals.
And I don't
16
want to be confrontational with the
17
individuals.
18
their dogs out and -- but I don't know
19
exactly who they are.
20
several of them.
21
of the club, and one was not a member of
22
the club.
23
dog season that the dogs are out
I know where they put
I've talked to
And one was a member
And it's not just during the

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 92
1
running.
after the season.
that question.
It's before the season and
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
So I can't answer
So, Mr. Lathem, it was you
that had problems with the dogs running
during January or somebody else?
MR. LATHEM:
That's not my complaint.
going to be another individual.
did see it happen.
10
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14
Very good.
But I
Thank
you.
12
13
Okay.
That's
The next speaker will be Randy

St. John.
MR. ST. JOHN:
Morning, gentlemen.
I'm Randy
15
St. John from Chilton County.
Mickey
16
Lathem and Scott Cherones are my
17
neighbors.
18
them.
19
me.
20
between the three of us, I'd say.
21
the smallest property owner of them.
I'm actually in between
They own parcels on both sides of

We manage close to a thousand acres
I'm
22
I'm the one that -- well, actually,
23
Seth, a friend of mine that was with me,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 93
1
he actually is the one that got the
dog.
weekend of deer season in January that
we caught running does.
called the game wardens first when I got
the dogs in the a.m. hours, I'd say, 10,
11 a.m.
them.
four o'clock before it got dark,
But we had two dogs the last
And the -- I
We didn't get no response from

At about, I want to say, three or
10
I called the dog owner to let him know
11
that I had his dogs.
12
there, and he commenced to telling me
13
that they had turned them loose on a
14
piece of property about 20 to 30 acres.
15
It's almost two miles from where we were
16
at.
17
running three big does, that they took a
18
shot at them and he didn't hit them
19
and -- excuse me -- and the dogs were
20
just running.
21
And he come out
And he said that those dogs were
I said, well, those does happened to
22
be on my property.
Matter of fact, they
23
about plowed over Seth trying to get

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 94
1
away from the dogs.
able to catch the dogs.
nearly two miles from where he turned
the dogs out.
And he actually was

And we're
And the question was, is it a
particular club?
No, sir.
It's a club
and a private landowner that has written
permission to these dog hunters to allow
them to hunt on their property in small
10
parcels of land.
I think it's under 500
11
acres.
12
sufficient for dog hunting.
13
needs to be in the thousands of acres.
I don't believe 500 acres is

I think it
14
I've caught dogs in -- I catch
15
anywhere from six to ten dogs during the
16
season.
17
I live -- that's my permanent address.
18
I know that -- I catch anywhere from six
19
to ten dogs a year.
20
turn their dogs loose on the other side
21
of the creek on -- near the property
22
line, if not on a road access, and their
23
dogs just instantly come our direction.
I live at the end of the road.
These individuals

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 95
1
I don't know -- I don't know why or, you
know, if it's just the way the deer
travel coming to us from the creek.
Some of the dogs have radio collars on.
Some of them don't.
The dog hunters have no concern of
us as private property owners.
They
have no desire to work with us.
attitude is I've lived here all my
Their
10
life.
11
owned this property.
12
owned this land.
13
here, it doesn't bother us, and we'll
14
run our dogs when we want to.
15
seems to be the general attitude of
16
every dog hunter that I've run in to.
17
I can do what I want to do.
I've
My family has
You know, you moving
That
I know that there may be good dog
18
hunters out there.
I'm not saying
19
there's not.
20
have they're out of control.
21
ruthless.
22
roads.
23
warden in the area, they have CB
But in the area that we

They're
They throw trash on the
They -- if they catch a game

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 96
1
radios.
saying, hey, the fox is in the hen house
or whatever.
a little while till the game warden
leaves the area.
They'll radio to their buddies
And they act straight for
I've had a game warden tell me that
when he does catch one on the road or
near the road that he has a fine, but
all of his buddies pitch in a hat and
10
collect the fine, and it don't cost them
11
ten or $12 a pocketbook.
12
opinion that's -- that's just careless.
13
And I -- I mean, I'm strictly
And in my
14
opposed to dog hunting in our area in
15
Chilton County.
16
we're between I-65 and Lake Mitchell,
17
from Lay Dam to Mitchell Dam.
18
just -- it's out of control.
19
ridiculous.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
And like Mickey said,
And it's
It's just
Mr. St. John, two things.
21
The Commissioner had asked who's zone
22
you were in -- or district you were in,
23
and you had talked to Mr. Dobbs; is that

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 97
1
correct?
MR. ST. JOHN:
Correct, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
board?
MR. ST. JOHN:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
So you have approached the
Yes.
The two weeks that they
were hunting in January when the season
was closed and you called the warden,
did he make a case on that?
10
MR. ST. JOHN:
I don't know -- I never did get
11
a warden to the house -- or to our
12
location.
13
look, if you have another problem, call
14
me.
15
that's he had with trying to track them
16
down and his more concern was people
17
spotlighting at night and hunting at
18
night more than it was on dog hunters.
19
I just had a warden say,
And he's told me about the issues
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Allan, have you had any
20
knowledge of dog hunting during the
21
closed part of the season, the last two
22
weeks?
23
problem?
Has that been any kind of

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 98
1
2
MR. ANDRESS:
I'm not aware of anything in
this particular area.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
COMMISSIONER GUY:
Okay.
Very good.
How about talking to
Mr. Andress before you leave today
concerning that.
MR. ST. JOHN:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Yes, sir.
MR. ST. JOHN:
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
13
14
15
16
17
Very good.
Thank you very
much.
10
12
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
All right.
The next
speaker is Mr. Jerome Boone.

MR. BOONE:
Good morning.
I'm Jerome Boone
from -CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Speak into the microphone,
please, Mr. Boone.

MR. BOONE:
I'm from Tallapoosa County.
I'm
18
the president of the High Hill
19
Conservation Club, a dog-hunting club.
20
And I'd like for y'all to reconsider the
21
vote y'all made at the first meeting on
22
putting Tallapoosa County on a permit
23
system.
We wasn't able to defend

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 99
1
ourself.
meetings, and I ain't never seen a
decision made on the first meeting.
Usually it's the third meeting.
I've been to a lot of these
And the boy that's vice-president of
the club, he owns 75 acres that's
adjoining the lady that's complained
about dogs running on her property.
don't personally know the lady.
I know
10
her mother and father.
11
to bow hunt on it whenever.
12
their property totally.
13
been more than glad to have worked out a
14
schedule with her for her to hunt her
15
property and nobody bothering her.
16
And she wanted

We surround
I would have
And when I seen who she was speaking
17
for, I got a sheriff's report on one of
18
the guys this past season where he
19
caught the boy's dog.
20
yard dog.
21
And the first question he asked, isn't
22
your uncle Jerome Boone?
23
And it was his
He lives by his property.
And it's a vengeance thing.
And

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 100
1
I -- I mean, I challenge y'all to check
out what these people is saying because
it just -- we all live there.
our membership this time to half of what
we was doing.
East.
season he had.
the first meeting, and I was a couple of
minutes too late to sign up to speak.
We cut
I talked to Michael
He said the smoothest hunting

Then I get down here at
10
And, you know, what was told -- it was
11
more or less the same group that came
12
last year except they got a different
13
speaker.
14
And I just -- I just wish y'all
15
would reconsider.
I invite y'all to
16
hunt with us and be glad for any of
17
y'all to come down and talk to the
18
people that live in the community.
19
them tell you.
20
like the people that's living there is
21
complaining.
22
coming in and leasing Alabama Power
23
Company land.
Let
It ain't -- it isn't
It's the ones that's

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 101
1
Our club does not join the
Tallapoosa River.
The power company has
land between our land and the Tallapoosa
River.
life.
hunter, and that's where it began.
There's three dog-hunting clubs from
Camp ASCCA, the Easter Seals, to
Horseshoe Bend National Military Park.
And I've lived there all my

I'm a fourth-generation dog
10
And that's where dog hunting began when
11
the first deer was ever put in
12
Tallapoosa County.
13
do is run our dogs.
14
And all we want to
And there's plenty of power company
15
land across Tallapoosa River that's not
16
leased.
17
against dog hunting, don't want to be
18
around it, why do you come and lease a
19
piece of property in the middle of dog
20
hunting?
21
really don't.
I mean, if you're totally
I don't understand it.
22
We had a group from Randolph County
23
that came down and leased from the power

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 102
1
company.
We finally dealt with the power company
and got them moved out.
the county that they had gotten dog
hunting done away with and come to our
county.
understand.
8
9
Killed over 30 of our dogs.
But they left
Things like that I don't

I really don't.
And I found out who shot my dog last

year.
I had a dog that -- right before
10
the Eufaula meeting.
11
450-something-dollars to have his leg
12
amputated.
13
department, told the game warden.
14
the boy that -- was standing there when
15
the guy done it.
16
can't get no help.
17
18
19
Cost me
I told the sheriff's
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
And
And I don't know.
We
Can't get no help.
Mr. Lynch, I believe this
is your district.
MR. LYNCH:
Mr. Boone, this was discussed
20
extensively last year at all the
21
meetings.
22
and other folks on the other side of the
23
issue, had discussions with the officers
I had discussions with you

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 103
1
that are over that area, had discussion
with them again prior to coming to our
first meeting this year where it was
brought up again.
based upon the fact that it had been
extensively discussed the year before.
And we voted on it
The last thing you and I talked
about at the last meeting last year,
when nobody came to speak against it,
10
you said it's not fair to put it in when
11
nobody is speaking against it.
12
you at that time I agreed with that.
13
we didn't vote on that.
14
also, that if we didn't see improvement
15
and there wasn't a different attitude
16
that the next step would have to be to
17
go to the permit system.
18
I told
So
But I told you,
Now, you're not going to be told you
19
can't hunt with dogs.
You're just going
20
to have to hunt under the way the permit
21
system is set up.
22
away your right to hunt with dogs on the
23
property you're hunting on, but we want
So we didn't take

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 104
1
you to get along with your neighbors in
a better manner so we can continue
forward in both sides getting along.
that's what we're asking.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. BOONE:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. BOONE:
9
10
May I say something?

Very quickly, Mr. Boone.
I would just like -- can you tell
me who are my neighbors I don't get

along with?
11
I mean, I -- I get along with all my
12
neighbors.
13
I can tell you that they've done said
14
it.
15
it, and this is the first step.
16
So
This is not going to stop.
All they want to do is do away with
MR. LYNCH:
Y'all have got the permit system
17
to protect you.
18
go by the guidelines of the permit
19
system.
20
that, you can continue to do what you're
21
doing.
22
23
MR. BOONE:
All you have to do is
And as long as you adhere to
What's the -- if they still catch
your dog, then what's the -- what is --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 105
1
I mean, how many times do they have to
catch your dog or what?
I didn't even have a dog this year
because they finished poisoning the rest
of mine last summer.
MR. LYNCH:
You can work with your officers,
and they'll be the ones that will work
with you on whether or not the groups
are getting along.
That's why it's set
10
up that way.
11
ground -- I'm not down there all the
12
time.
13
know that area better than anybody
14
else.
15
dealing with.
16
and the hunting clubs they're dealing
17
with.
18
19
20
21
22
23
The people that are on the
They are.
They're the folks that
They know the landowners they're

They know the dog-hunting
MR. BOONE:
And that's what they do.

We've got one of our officers
that's totally against dogs.

MR. LYNCH:
Well, that's who you have to work
with.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Boone, thank you.
The next speaker is Susan Morrow.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 106
1
MS. MORROW:
Chairman, Commissioner, Members
of the Board, good morning.
I'm Susan
Morrow from Mobile County.
I think all
of you about know me by now.
I am here.
also a stalk hunter.
management areas in the state of
Alabama.
Four we are allowed to dog
hunt on.
And I would like to see more
10
I am a dog hunter and

And we have 39
dog days on our management areas.
11
And, also, I would like to bring up
12
the fact -- I wrote all of y'all a
13
letter -- if you haven't got it, you
14
will be getting it -- about extending
15
deer season.
16
I hunt in several counties, and the
17
rut is happening.
You know, it has a
18
lot to do with weather, I guess.
19
don't really understand what the rut is,
20
I guess, compared to the -- some of the
21
people are saying they want to hunt the
22
rut.
23
hurt the rabbit hunters, and I don't see
But I'm not for it because it will

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 107
1
the need for it.
trying to say is if it's not broke,
don't fix it.
long as I can remember, the season has
been the way it is.
broke, don't fix it.
I guess what I'm
And this has been -- as
And if it's not
And I did bring some more names,
signatures, supporting dog hunting and
would like more days on the management
10
areas.
11
y'all could look at this.
12
And I would appreciate it if
Thank you.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14
MR. HARTZOG:
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
16
MR. HARTZOG.
Thank you, Ms. Morrow.
Gary.
Mr. Hartzog.
At, I think, the last meeting
17
when Susan spoke we talked about the
18
possibility of the Department looking at
19
some more days.
20
anything?
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
22
MR. MOODY:
23
Have y'all come up with
Mr. Moody.
We have not set the management
area seasons yet or made

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 108
1
recommendations.
to look at making some extra days.
We've asked our staff
One thing that Ms. Morrow brought up
at the last meeting was conflicting
dates on a couple of different
management areas, and I talked with the
staff.
intentionally to keep crowds in control
within landowner expectations on those
Some of that is done
10
properties so we don't have problems
11
with neighboring landowners and have too
12
many people on one area at a time.
13
there's some things to work out, but we
14
are looking at trying to see what we can
15
do.
16
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
So
Thank you, Mr. Moody.
The next speaker is Johnny Roberts.
18
MR. ROBERTS:
Thank you for allowing me to
19
speak.
20
and fishing privileges.
21
certain hunting privileges that are
22
coming under attack, and I believe it's
23
based upon big money and lobbyists.
I'm an advocate of all hunting

But there's

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 109
1
Dog hunting during deer season has
been a tradition in Alabama for as long
as I've been hunting.
60 years old, and I would hate to see
this tradition go to the wayside.
you start infringing on dog hunting,
rabbit hunting, coon hunting, and
squirrel hunting, the dog will be next.
9
10
That's 1967.
I'm
Once
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
11
The next speaker is Derrell Wright.
12
If y'all will hold your applause
13
until the end, please.
14
15
Derrell Wright.
MR. WRIGHT:
Good morning.
I'm a gunsmith.
16
I'm a member of the American Gunsmithing
17
Association, an NRA member.
18
types of hunting.
19
I enjoy all
The majority of my repairs are on
20
shotguns.
The majority of my sales are
21
shotguns.
If we outlaw buckshot, I'm
22
going to be -- I'm going to have a large
23
inventory that's going to be hard to

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 110
1
liquidate.
of other businesses also.
very much that can go wrong with a
bolt-action rifle.
I think it will affect a lot
I have three dogs.
There's not
I spend around a
thousand dollars a year in dog feed.
lot of people have larger packs of
dogs.
going to be lost out of the economy.
And that's a lot of money that's

I
10
think dog owners spend a lot of money in
11
the state of Alabama that's not being
12
recognized.
13
People without the minimum acreage
14
won't be able to put on a man drive.
15
Nobody is going to want to be out there
16
in the cutover walking through when
17
everybody's got high-powered rifles.
18
think that would be dangerous.
19
it would be a safety issue.
20
is mostly cutover now.
21
pine.
22
23
I think
And Alabama
It's mostly
I think there should be some kind of

compromise.
The majority of the people

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 111
1
that want to stop dog hunting are
hunting over bait, so they're basically
breaking the law already.
think it would be quite fair.
And I don't
I think we need to give our
conservation officers the resources they
need to enforce the laws that are
already on the books.
overwhelmed.
They're
They have big areas to
10
cover.
11
officers in our district.
12
I think we have some fine
Hunting with a dog is hunting with a
13
dog.
14
hunting deer dogs, every dog should be
15
regulated in the same manner.
16
man that he can't hunt with his dogs,
17
that's un-American.
18
the people that wrote the Constitution
19
would have thought that it would have
20
come to this, this probably would have
21
been written into the Second Amendment.
22
23
If you are going to regulate our
Telling a
I believe that if
And some people don't have the

luxury of owning multiple guns.
I do.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 112
1
I'm very lucky.
shotgun.
defense, small game, large game.
think we just really need to look at
this thing.
could be found somewhere.
7
8
9
10
11
Some people own a
You can use a shotgun for home

And I
And I believe a compromise
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you, Mr. Wright.
Our last speaker will be Mike

Bagwell.
MR. BAGWELL:
I had
12
the opportunity the last meeting in
13
February to be the last speaker, and it
14
looks like I get it today.
15
thank y'all for the opportunity to step
16
back up.
17
So -- but I
And I'm here to speak on the feral
18
hog issue again in the Bankhead National
19
Forest, the WMA there, which, of course,
20
is the largest WMA in the state of
21
Alabama.
22
the Bankhead Forest district.
23
we're looking at, I think, 91,000 acres
It encompasses about half of

You know,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 113
1
2
up there.
Just after the meeting here -- in
Montgomery in February, there was an
article that came out in the Decatur
Daily on February 10th which I would
like to make a few quotes out of, if I
could.
8
9
This is from Dr. Charles Borden from

Moulton, Alabama.
He says, along many
10
of the creeks, it often looks like a
11
tiller has been through the area for
12
perhaps a hundred yards.
13
a seventh-generation family member who
14
lives in the Bankhead, and he says
15
they're destroying a lot of our native
16
vegetation and contribute to soil
17
erosion.
18
Dr. Borden is
And I also have a quote here from
19
Ms. Allison Cochran, which is the
20
biologist there on the Bankhead
21
district.
22
in the Bankhead are increasing rapidly,
23
and we need help before the problem gets
She says, their populations

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 114
1
any worse.
the -- the biologist with the National
Forest Service there.
And that was Allison of
And I have a quote here from Mr. Ron
Eaks, which is the biologist in that
district.
biologist.
of course, the pigs are not aggressive
toward people but will eat anything that
He is our district
And, you know, he says that,
10
doesn't eat them, including plants and
11
other animals.
12
the fields, native plants, the whole
13
nine yards.
14
they run into, such as nesting birds, if
15
the hen is crazy enough to sit there,
16
they will eat her and her eggs.
17
don't know how many of y'all know
18
Mr. Ron, but he's a big turkey hunter.
19
And I talked with him this week, matter
20
of fact.
21
He says, they root up
And he says, any animal
And I
And I also got a quote here from
22
Mr. Barry Baird that says that hunters
23
have not killed enough wild hogs to

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 115
1
justify adding any number of days to the
hunting season, which that tells me that
there's got to be other alternatives
that we can use to control these pigs.
And I believe I addressed every one
of y'all on the board by letter after
the February meeting stating what I felt
like needed to be done, you know, on
some of the -- allow dogs.
I talked
10
with Mr. Moody this morning.
And I
11
wanted to verify -- something that had
12
been brought to me was the fact that you
13
can go in there during squirrel season,
14
rabbit season -- whatever small game is
15
in there, you are allowed to hunt them
16
with dogs, whether it be squirrel,
17
rabbits, during -- in the WMA and -- but
18
the pigs are not allowed to be hunted
19
with dogs.
20
one of the strongest assets that we're
21
going to have.
22
dogs for years.
23
squirrel dogs, and deer dogs.
I think that's going to be
Because I used to hunt

I've had rabbit dogs,
The dogs

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 116
1
2
will find those hogs.

The hogs have become educated.
And,
you know, I've talked to a lot of
hunters in the last few months.
seeing the signs, but they're not seeing
the hogs.
getting educated.
8
9
They're
And, you know, these pigs are
And, also, one other quick thing.

talked with the forest -- acting forest
10
supervisor for the State of Alabama,
11
Ms. Teri Cleeland, at the Montgomery
12
office.
13
more than willing to look into some of
14
the game law changes to address this
15
issue and she is more than willing to
16
sit down at the table with some of her
17
biologists from the Forest Service and
18
maybe address some of the board or some
19
of the conservation -- Mr. Moody or
20
whoever, and sit down at a table
21
discussion and see what we can do about
22
this matter.
23
And she told me that she is
So, you know, I want to say this,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 117
1
that if y'all don't remember anything
I've said today, that, you know, I want
to see something done about this
situation.
forests.
will see me again.
the next meeting.
up and I'm going to speak about the hogs
at the next meeting.
10
11
12
They're destroying our

And I'm not going away.
Y'all
I mean, I'll be at
And I'm going to get
I thank y'all for your time.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
All right.
The next order of
13
business is old business.
14
with the issues that I show from the
15
last meeting.
16
I'll start
I'd like for someone from Wildlife
17
and Freshwater Fisheries to run back
18
down the list of what's being proposed
19
to be approved today.
20
21
22
23
Mr. Harders.
MR. HARDERS:
I believe seasons and bag limits
may be first.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Yes.
And I think we'll --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 118
1
Mr. Dean, we can approve these as a
lump, all of their items?
MR. DEAN:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
5
6
That's correct.
Okay.
Go ahead.
We'll
present them all.

MR. HARDERS:
Okay.
Seasons and bag limits.
We have no changes to what we
recommended the last time and seek
approval of what we submitted.
10
The dove and duck options for zones
11
and splits.
12
board approval.
13
and Wildlife Service know after this
14
meeting what Alabama's recommendations
15
are going to be.
16
have now, what we've recommended, gives
17
us the best option no matter what the
18
dates are chosen for the seasons.
19
that's the widest range of options we
20
have now.
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
22
MR. HARDERS:
23
Just a reminder, we need

We have to let the Fish
And, again, what we
So
Okay.
And the last two -- the last
two -- the last meeting, the last two

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 119
1
regulations, the hunter orange
requirements and the clarification on
devices on bows.
issue.
That was the other
Consumer price index adjustment on
the hunting and fishing license.
presented last time the results of that
and recommend your approval on what we
submitted.
10
11
12
13
14
We
And I believe that's all we have.

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay, Mr. Harders.
Thank
you.
Is there any conversation from the
board on any of these six items?
15
MR. STRICKLAND:
Mr. Chairman.
16
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
17
MR. STRICKLAND:
Dr. Strickland.
Yes.
Could I address one
18
issue and, particularly, after hearing
19
Mr. Yeargan's discussion and the
20
position stance on laser range finders
21
on a bow and arrow?
22
23
I think the current regulation will

make laser range finders illegal on bow

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 120
1
2
3
4
5
and arrow in the state of Alabama.

MR. HARDERS:
It clarifies that they already
are illegal, if I'm getting that right.

MR. STRICKLAND:
If I may, Mr. Chairman, may
I make a motion at this time?
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. STRICKLAND:
Yes, sir.
May I make a motion to amend
or revise the current regulation that
will no longer make bow-attached laser
10
range finders illegal in the state of
11
Alabama, again, particularly after
12
hearing the statement of the ABA?
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
There is a motion to make
14
bow-mounted range finders legal on
15
bows.
16
MR. HATLEY:
17
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Is there a second?
Second.
Mr. Hatley.
18
All discussion.
19
Any discussion, Mr. Harders?
20
21
22
23
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Members of the Board, any
other discussion?
(No response.)

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 121
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
There is a motion
to be voted on, again, to make range
finders on bows legal.
Mr. Dean, you'll work out the
appropriate language whichever way it
goes, I suggest.
All those in favor raise your hand.
(All board members raise hands.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
Let it be
10
recognized -- and I have to go down
11
through and list each one.
12
Mr. Raymond Jones is for.
13
Dr. Warren Strickland is for.
14
Lynch is for.
15
Mr. Grady Hartzog is for.
16
Hatley is for.
17
Dr. Bob Shipp is for.
18
19
20
Mr. Brock Jones is for.

Mr. Bill
Mr. Joey Dobbs is for.
The two opposed -- oh, both are

for.
Okay.
Let it be shown that the vote
21
is total of the board for.
22
carries.
23
Mr. Grant
Okay.
Motion
Commissioner Guy.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 122
1
COMMISSIONER GUY:
Dr. Strickland, so are you
just asking that -- and I know it's
passed, but you're asking -- just so our
folks are clear and understand, you're
saying range finders on bows is what --
what you are wanting to make sure is --
MR. STRICKLAND:
Yeah.
Specifically laser
range finders only.
I think Mr. Yeargan
eloquently presented the position
10
statement of the ABA that disallowed or
11
would not like to see laser-projected
12
devices on bows.
13
14
Range finders only.
Does that answer your question?

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
To clarify, I think what
15
the Commissioner is saying is, you don't
16
want anything that's going to project
17
and show a light down field, but to read
18
a -- something that's invisible to give
19
you a computation of yardage, that is
20
permissible.
21
for, Dr. Strickland?
22
MR. STRICKLAND:
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Is that what you're asking
That's correct, Mr. Chairman.

Okay.
Any other

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 123
1
discussion?
2
3
Mr. Dobbs.
MR. DOBBS:
For clarification for me on the
dove season, the splits for the dove
season -- or rather the north and south
zoning, as I read through these minutes
and as I looked at the recommendations
or the wishes that you have reported for
the feds, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
10
Service, they have recommended or would
11
like to see one season, not a -- not
12
split zones.
13
read?
14
MR. HARDERS:
Am I correct in what I
They allow us to choose to have
15
two zones for doves.
16
from the past from hunters, they would
17
rather see us have two zones.
18
what we would recommend.
19
MR. DOBBS:
Based on our input
So that's
But the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
20
Service, of course, they give us the
21
option of that.
22
somewhere where they said they would
23
like to see one -- one season.
But I did read
Am I

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 124
1
wrong?
MR. HARDERS:
Did I misread that?

They may -- David, is that --
they may prefer that for their
preference, but that's not what we nor
our hunters prefer.
the option to have two.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
little more?
And they give us
Can y'all clarify that a

Is that correct, David?
Just so the board has full
10
understanding of what they've asked
11
and --
12
MR. HARDERS:
13
MR. HAYDEN:
Yeah.
Maybe David Hayden.
From the standpoint of the Fish
14
and Wildlife Service, analyzing all the
15
data and so forth that's collected every
16
year -- from their standpoint, analyzing
17
that data with one zone per state is
18
easier than analyzing it from multiple
19
zones in the state.
20
would be easier to analyze it for one
21
zone.
22
zones.
23
MR. DOBBS:
So for them it
However, they do allow two
Again, would you clarify for me,

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 125
1
then, as I read, why the two zones?
it because of the top-sown wheat, the
planting dates, just for me?
MR. HAYDEN:
Is
The zones are allowed so that the
hunters within the state are offered the
best opportunity to harvest the birds
while they're there.
long state like Alabama or Mississippi
or Illinois, wherever it may be, having
So if you have a
10
two zones allows you to put days in
11
north and south, for example, that is
12
advantageous for the hunters.
13
MR. DOBBS:
Assuming that these are migratory
14
birds and they're coming down from north
15
to south, the south would get them later
16
on in the year.
17
in the southern zone begins later in the
18
year?
19
MR. HAYDEN:
Yes, sir.
That's why the season
That's the general
20
feelings of -- both of the hunters, the
21
public, and the desire that we have
22
found of the hunters of Alabama.
23
MR. DOBBS:
Okay.
I just -- this is something

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 126
1
that I want to bring up to discuss and
continue to discuss this.
3
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Did that explain it enough
for you, Mr. Dobbs?
MR. DOBBS:
Yes, it did.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. DOBBS:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. HARTZOG:
Okay.

Any other discussion?
Gary.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
11
MR. MOODY:
12
MR. HARTZOG:
Mr. Hartzog.
Yes.
Gary, I think at the last
13
meeting or maybe the meeting before we
14
talked about during the stalk season of
15
deer that buckshot was excluded.
16
talked about kids and all that might be
17
using buckshot during stalk hunting and
18
the possibility of reinstating -- you
19
know, not prohibiting buckshot during
20
stalk hunting.
21
22
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
And we
Is there any ...

Mr. Moody, do you have any
report?
MR. MOODY:
No.
I don't even remember the

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 127
1
2
discussion, Grady.
MR. HARTZOG:
I'm sorry.
Somebody got up and spoke, and
they talked about the buckshot.
then I brought it up and asked, because
especially with kids shooting, you know,
not necessarily a high-powered rifle,
not having the buckshot.
8
9
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Moody?
MR. MOODY:
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
13
Mr. Hartzog?
Be glad to.
14
MR. HARTZOG:
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
17
Could y'all look at that
and report on that at the next meeting,
11
16
And
Is that all right,
Okay.
All right.
Mr. Jones,
Raymond Jones.
MR. RAYMOND JONES:
Just to clarify, the split
18
zones of the dove season gives us the
19
greatest -- gives the hunters of the
20
state of Alabama the greatest degree of
21
flexibility?
22
MR. HARDERS:
That is correct.
23
MR. RAYMOND JONES:
All right.
Thank you.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 128
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
2
3
Any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
As a package, this
whole package, can I get a motion to
approve with the amendment made to it?
MR. LYNCH:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
So made.
motion.
We've got -- I have a
Do I have a second?
MR. RAYMOND JONES:
Second.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
I have a second.
11
The motion is that we approve all
12
the Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries'
13
recommendations with the amendment that
14
Mr. Dean will make to the range finder.
15
All those in favor?
16
17

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
18
(No response.)
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
20
affirmed it.
21
22
23
All opposed?
Let the record show all

Mr. Harders, go ahead.

MR. HARDERS:
Under old business we had some
other items, but --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 129
1
2
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
I'm going to call on y'all
in just a minute.
MR. HARDERS:
Okay.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Very good.
Okay.
Next,
if I can get Mr. Blankenship from Marine
Resources.
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
The only item that we had in
old business from the last meeting was
for approval for the Saltwater Angler
10
Registry regulation.
11
Dr. Shipp may have a motion to that
12
effect.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14
MR. SHIPP:
And I think
Dr. Shipp.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Chairman, I make a
15
motion that the proposed regulation
16
concerning the Saltwater Angler Registry
17
that was presented by the Marine
18
Resources Divison at the February 5th,
19
2011, Conservation Advisory Board
20
Meeting be approved by the Conservation
21
Advisory Board.
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23
MR. HATLEY:
Is there a second?
Second.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 130
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
We have a motion and a
second, the motion being that the
Saltwater Angler Registry regulation be
approved as presented before.
any discussion?
6
7
Is there
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Being no discussion, the
motion to be voted on is the Saltwater
Angler Registry regulation as presented
10
before.
11
hands.
12
13

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
All those in favor, a show of
All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
affirmative to pass.
Motion carries.

Mr. Blankenship.
The next item of old business is the
wire basket provision.
MR. HARTZOG:
Yes, sir.
Mr. Hartzog.
David and I worked it
22
out because we had a few little
23
complications because of the two

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 131
1
impoundments that went outside of my
district.
motion and I think has forwarded it to
everybody.
that wire baskets be approved for my
Congressional District 2 excluding the
areas that David defined in the two
public lakes.
9
10
And David had to rework the
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Redefined as per
Mr. Dean --
11
MR. HARTZOG:
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
13
So I'd like to make a motion
Right.
-- is the motion.
Is
there a second?
14
MR. RAYMOND JONES:
Second.
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
We have a motion and a
16
second.
17
18
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Hartzog, do you feel
19
it's necessary for Mr. Dean to discuss
20
those changes to it, or is the board
21
comfortable with that?
22
23
MR. HARTZOG:
I think the board may be
comfortable with that.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 132
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
The motion to be
voted on is the wire basket provision
with clarification from Mr. Dean.
those in favor?
5
6
All

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
affirmative.
10

Motion carries.
The next item of old business is we
11
have a February rut season biologist
12
report.
13
Would you like to brief the board on
14
that, please, sir.
15
Mr. Moody.
Mr. Chris Cook.
And I'd like to say I got a very
16
good report on Mr. Cook.
17
currently conducting a fetus study.
18
some of the landowners involved gave
19
very, very high marks on Mr. Cook,
20
Commissioner, and what a good job he was
21
doing.
22
23
MR. COOK:
Mr. Cook is
And
I'm Chris Cook with the Division of
Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 133
1
I think each of y'all have been
presented with a report summarizing the
data the Wildlife section has collected
concerning rut dates, conception dates,
if you will, around the state.
something we've been working on since
1995.
Collected from, I think, 28 sites around
the state.
This is
Really stepped it up last year.
So we're trying to fill in
10
some gaps we have in our data, trying to
11
get a clearer picture of what's going on
12
concerning rut dates and whatnot.
13
The report in the back has a summary
14
of data we collected.
That has it
15
broken down by a summary for all the
16
years taken from each area and then a
17
year-by-year breakdown from the areas we
18
have more than one year of data.
19
in that report is some items to -- we
20
would like for you to consider when
21
you're reviewing the data, just some
22
things to keep in mind, such as sample
23
size from some of the sites, regarding
Also

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 134
1
the number of years the data has been
taken from that site or the number of
years it was taken during the
collections, and some other things
regarding the variation from year to
year that we've seen on sites that we've
collected multiple years of data and
just several other issues related to the
data.
10
11
12
Have y'all -- I don't know if y'all

have had time to review it.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Cook, you're doing a
13
great job on this.
14
clear on this.
15
controversial issue.
16
very ongoing issue.
17
great time to ask any other questions of
18
Mr. Cook of this issue.
19
I want to be very
It's a very
It's going to be a
Now would be a
Right now there's ongoing fetus
20
studies that we have past data to -- how
21
many years back, Mr. Cook?
22
23
MR. COOK:
We have data that I've actively
been participating in since '95.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 135
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Comparable data to see --
and correct me if I misstate it -- that
we will be able to see what has happened
since that previous time and will give
us more conclusive advice on how to
manage the season or about the season.
7
8
Any other questions from the board

for Mr. Cook?
9
10
11
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Very good.
Thank you,
Mr. Cook.
12
Okay.
13
MR. BROCK JONES:
Mr. Jones.
Mr. Brock Jones.
Chris, from what I gather in
14
the study at this point in time, the
15
range of the rut from the studies that
16
have been conducted so far is basically
17
December to February.
18
much what you --
19
MR. COOK:
Is that pretty
It ranges -- there's -- there's a
20
couple of isolated populations that
21
actually have mean conception dates in
22
late November, Bankhead National Forest
23
being the primary one, all the way to --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 136
1
a few sites this past year did have mean
conception dates in the first few days
of February.
was the first year we've collected data
from those sites.
continue collecting data -- you know,
three to five years would be
preferred -- just to try to account for
any variation that we're liable to see.
10
One of the sites we've collected a
A lot of those sites, that
So we're wanting to
11
bunch of data from, Barbour WMA, just
12
for your information, this past year we
13
had the latest date that we've had down
14
there -- latest average date.
15
don't -- don't know if that was
16
something that was across the -- you
17
know, a broad region of the state or if
18
that's just a -- something at Barbour.
19
So collecting more data will clear a lot
20
of that up.
21
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
22
questions?
23
MR. BROCK JONES:
So we
Mr. Jones, any further
Of course, we obviously have

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 137
1
opposition from the small game hunters
for the extension.
biological standpoint, if it's decided
that there is enough extensive rut into
February and you're shifting things,
what is the potential negative of
shifting the season to mid February
and --
MR. COOK:
But from a
A lot of things were addressed in
10
Dr. Ditchkoff's letter.
You know, the
11
impact it's going to have on what was --
12
the progress that was -- appears to be
13
being made with the three-buck limit as
14
far as reducing the number of bucks
15
being killed.
16
February, you're not only making them
17
more susceptible due to some of the
18
rutting activities and putting more
19
stress on them, but you're also --
20
you're hunting into a time when food
21
sources are at their -- getting to their
22
lowest point during the year.
23
compounding things by doing that.
You know, extending into
So you're

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 138
1
So just -- you know, even if you
take some off the front end, you know,
it's taken off an equal two-week portion
at the front end or maybe even three
weeks, probably is not comparable to
adding two weeks at the end as far as
the impact it's going to have on the
resource.
all need to be considered if this is --
10
11
12
13
A lot of those things are --
comes up in the future.

MR. BROCK JONES:
So it's your opinion that
more study needs to be made?

MR. COOK:
Definitely.
I mean, we've got to
14
look at all the angles and all the
15
issues involved.
16
white and just drawing a line and saying
17
that we'll hunt in February here and we
18
won't here.
19
It's not black and
As you'll see in the report, the
20
influence of the stocking source, where
21
those deer came from when we restocked
22
them has a -- is a primary -- or primary
23
influence on when they're rutting.
Most

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 139
1
of the deer came from Clarke County.
we have deer that rut into late January,
you know, scattered all over the state.
There's no clear line.
clouds the issue.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. BROCK JONES:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
COMMISSIONER McMILLAN:
So it really
Mr. Jones.
Thank you.
Commissioner.
I would be interested
10
in having a copy of the Ditchkoff
11
letter, and I would suggest that maybe
12
we all --
13
So
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
I will have that
14
distributed at the -- I'll give it to
15
Commissioner Guy, and he can distribute
16
it amongst everyone.
17
MR. STRICKLAND:
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
19
MR. STRICKLAND:
20
21
22
23
Mr. Chairman.
Yes, sir.
Dr. Strickland.
Could I address Chris?
Chris, there's one other question

I'd like to ask.
So at this time based on, you know,
your research -- and I -- I may be

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 140
1
putting you on the spot -- but would it
be your recommendation to leave the
season as it is now or to consider an
extension?
5
6
7
I think that's what we want to

know.
MR. COOK:
As it is right now, I would
recommend leaving it as it is because
of, you know, the need to get more
10
data.
11
with a clear conscience recommend
12
extending it in one area over another or
13
any area in the state right now.
14
you know, that may change.
15
now, no, I wouldn't recommend it.
16
17
So as it is right now, I couldn't
MR. STRICKLAND:
But right
Excellent job.
18
MR. COOK:
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
20
But,
Thank you.
Any
other questions from the board?
21
MR. BROCK JONES:
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23
Jones.
One last question.

Yes.
Mr. Jones, Brock

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 141
1
MR. BROCK JONES:
How much more time is needed
in your opinion to come up with enough
data to make a recommendation?
MR. COOK:
Well, the thing about it is, this
is -- this could -- there's a need to
collect data from now on.
get more data, it's going to be
clearer -- the picture is going to
become clearer, but there's always going
Now, as we
10
to be questions that's going to need to
11
be answered with this because of all
12
those compounding factors, the stocking
13
source.
14
populations that we've mentioned today,
15
populations within counties that have
16
rut dates that may be as much as two
17
months different.
18
And, you know, we have
So trying to figure out things such
19
as how big an area of influence that
20
these other stocking sources have, all
21
that stuff is something that is going to
22
be ongoing.
23
least on the sites that we were able to
But, you know, on the -- at

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 142
1
do a lot of collections on initially
down in southwest Alabama this year, you
know, another couple of years, this year
and another year, will start to clear
things up.
So, you know, ideally, I wouldn't
say any less than two years from now on
a lot of this stuff.
of the state we have a pretty good idea,
Now, in some parts
10
but there's a lot of areas we don't.
11
And we still need to collect the data.
12
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Cook, all of this is
13
currently evolving and changing because
14
of the three-buck limit and having less
15
bucks shot in a year.
16
statement?
17
MR. COOK:
Is that a correct
Well, it possibly is.
You know,
18
that's another fluid thing that we're
19
going to have to continue monitoring,
20
the impact of the three-buck limit.
21
And, you know, I don't know how much of
22
a broad effect that will have on
23
conception dates.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 143
1
My feeling is it's not going to be
that big of an influence.
It may be,
but it may not be.
the influence of the sex ratios is
really going to be dictated more on
property-by-property basis, based on
what that landowner or hunting club is
doing on that property.
there's the property maybe in the past
Because that's --
And, you know,
10
that just shot any buck that they wanted
11
to shoot and now we're going strictly by
12
the new regulations.
13
be impacted.
14
already had limits in place, you know,
15
they were already being conservative on
16
what bucks they shot, it's probably not
17
going to affect them.
18
You know, they may
But the properties that
So to say it's going to be a broad
19
across-the-state impact, you know, we
20
don't know.
21
continue looking at that as well.
22
it's just -- it's a never-ending
23
process.
Just have to look at -So

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 144
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Very good.
questions from the board?
Yes, Mr. Dobbs.
MR. DOBBS:
Any other
If we could add more tools to your
tool chest in the form of some type of
harvest information, carcass tags or
anything, that's going to help you?
8
9
MR. COOK:
It would definitely help us
monitor, you know, the impacts of the
10
deer harvest.
11
dates and whatnot, the only way to
12
really get that kind of information is
13
through what we're doing now, you know,
14
and it wouldn't be influenced by carcass
15
tags or anything.
16
As far as the conception
But those other things, you know,
17
all that can add to -- you know, the
18
data that could be collected by these
19
other methods would add to our knowledge
20
of what's going on and help us stay
21
probably better informed of the
22
condition of the deer across the state
23
and --

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 145
1
MR. DOBBS:
It would help you as well even
segment that information by units or
divisions or however you wanted to do
it?
MR. COOK:
Right.
It definitely would give
you a better idea than what -- the
information we have now.
MR. DOBBS:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
10
11
12
Thank you.
Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Cook, thank you very
much for your report.
13
The next order of old business is
14
dog deer days staggered at WMAs.
15
Mr. Moody.
16
17
MR. MOODY:
Basically what I said earlier.
could reiterate it.
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
19
MR. MOODY:
20
Just reiterate it so --
Yeah, I'll be glad to.

You know, just to restate what we
21
want to do, there's some landowner
22
expectations on some of the land that we
23
manage to keep things within a certain

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 146
1
limit and not causing problems for their
neighbors.
some of the season dates are set the
same.
we can adjust that or add dates or move
some dates around without increasing
conflicts for neighbors around the
management areas.
9
10
But we are looking now to see how
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
13
Thank you.
Any other
questions from the board?
11
12
And so that's one reason
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Thank you, Mr. Moody.
The next item is the property lines
14
as a safety issue.
15
letter to the board.
16
board got it and saw the items he
17
listed.
18
Mr. Andress issued a

I think all the
Commissioner, I'd like to ask you,
19
would you assume to further look into
20
this as a safety issue, concern from a
21
safety standpoint?
22
COMMISSIONER GUY:
23
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Would that be fair?
Absolutely.
Very good.
Okay.
Any

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 147
1
2
other old business?

Okay.
The next order of business is
new business.
and Freshwater Fisheries on open
trapping season for furbearers and the
rest of that grouping.
MR. ANDRESS:
Yeah.
I'll start with Wildlife
You should have before
you a -- if you don't mind, I'll start
with the nongame regulations.
10
be all right?
11
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
12
MR. ANDRESS:
13
Will that
Yes.
Do you have that?
It seeks to add a number of species
14
to the nongame wildlife protection
15
regulation.
16
specific questions about any specific
17
species, I'll just move along.
18
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Unless you have any
Okay.
Just move along.
19
We'll establish this as a group, also,
20
and the next meeting we'll vote on this
21
as a group also.
22
23
MR. ANDRESS:
Okay.
And the biggest thing
you'll see in there is on toward the

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 148
1
end.
There's a substantial amount of
language that has been removed, and that
language was -- dealt with the harvest
of turtles -- legal harvest of turtles.
And that language was incorporated into
and consolidated with the Turtle
Catcher/Dealer/Farmer regulation, which
you also have.
substantial amendment to that
And that's the
10
regulation.
11
consolidated that language into an
12
existing regulation that already dealt
13
with legal turtle harvest.
14
Any questions about that?
15
16
And then we simply
(No response.)
MR. ANDRESS:
The next regulation -- pair of
17
regulations have to do with the
18
designation of furbearers and with the
19
trapping season.
20
remove the spotted skunk or civet cat
21
from that list.
22
as a species of special concern, and its
23
numbers in Alabama are considered to be
What this one does is
It had been identified

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 149
1
extremely low now.
removed from the furbearer list and from
the trapping season to afford it some
protection.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Andress?
MR. ANDRESS:
And so that was
Who identified that,
I think it was identified by the
Fish and Wildlife Service and by --
perhaps I may have to refer to Gary to
10
11
12
13
identify that exact ...

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
And that's basically
what's called a polecat, Mr. Moody?

MR. MOODY:
Yeah.
That's been a long-standing
14
issue.
And it was identified first in
15
our nongame symposium back several years
16
ago, and we've continued to look at it.
17
One of the researchers with Auburn is
18
doing some work on that.
19
truthfully, he can't even find one to
20
train the dogs on the scat and scent and
21
stuff.
22
rare.
23
caught by trappers just because they're
And, quite
I mean, they're just very, very

So I doubt many of them are being

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 150
1
not there.
protection.
3
4
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
All
Any other questions on those
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Any other new business
from the board?
10
Dr. Shipp.
11
Very good.
four items from the board?
7
8
Okay.
right, Mr. Andress.
5
6
But it just affords them
MR. SHIPP:
Yeah.
I have been contacted by
12
the mayors of Orange Beach and Gulf
13
Shores.
14
consider removing gill nets from the
15
front beaches.
16
issue.
17
Blankenship, as a starter, to describe
18
what the current regulations are, and
19
then I think we open for discussion and
20
then perhaps at the next meeting as well
21
invite some more public testimony.
And they have requested that we
It's a very complicated
And what I'd like is for Chris
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
Mr. Blankenship.
The gill-net fishery is our

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 151
1
most highly regulated fishery that we
have in the Marine Resources Division,
and the regulations that we have come
about after several -- multiple years of
work that was done since the early
'90s.
Currently on the beaches that
Dr. Shipp is talking about, those areas
are -- gill nets can't be used in the
10
Gulf or even possessed in the Gulf at
11
all on weekends from March 15th through
12
Labor Day.
13
on the weekends.
14
nighttime hours only from March 15th
15
through May 15th, so -- and then from
16
May 15th through October 2nd in the area
17
from Old Lagoon Pass, which would be the
18
area of Gulf Shores and Orange Beach.
19
So from May 15th through October 2nd
20
they're closed altogether for the use of
21
gill nets in that area.
22
23
So they're closed altogether

They can only be used
So they are already highly

restricted.
The only times that they're

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 152
1
allowed for use in the Gulf
Shores/Orange Beach area is nighttime
only March 15th to May 15th and then
from October 2nd through the rest of the
year is the only time that they're
allowed to use them.
Or just as an informational note, we
have -- used to have a gill-net fishery
with about 500 fishermen that had
10
licenses through legislation in the
11
early '90s and then recently completed a
12
gill-net buyout program.
13
down to 86 fishermen.
14
those actually have landings.
15
That number is
Only about 70 of
And last year was the first full
16
year after the gill-net buyout where 47
17
people sold their licenses -- last year
18
was the first full year of fishing --
19
now, some of this is complicated because
20
of the oil spill.
21
of trips where people have landings is
22
between four and 5,000 trips per year
23
with gill-net landings.
But the usual number
Last year we

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 153
1
were around a 2300-trip range, so about
half of the historic numbers.
I'll be glad to answer any -- that's
just a brief overview.
regulation, as I say, is very
complicated to go through.
MR. SHIPP:
Our gill-net
Chris, there's the perception
about the quarter-mile off the beach.
Could you address that or clarify it?
10
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
Within a quarter-mile off
11
the beach is where most of the fishing
12
activity takes place with Spanish
13
mackerel, ladyfish, and blue runners,
14
some of the other species.
15
where they're mainly targeted on the
16
Gulf beaches is within that quarter to
17
half a mile, depending on where the
18
sandbars are located, how close to the
19
shore they are.
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
And that's
Most of the letters I saw
21
come in, Mr. Blankenship, were
22
addressing the Spanish mackerel, that
23
there's a large byproduct catch on that

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 154
1
2
also.
Is that right?
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
I mean, there is -- I mean,
you have ladyfish, Spanish mackerel,
blue runners all in that area.
they are fairly -- they can be fairly
selective on what they target in schools
of Spanish mackerel.
some bycatch of blue fish or other
things.
10
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
11
MR. LYNCH:
12
13
Now,
They will have
Yes, Mr. Lynch.
What's the commercial value of a
ladyfish?
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
Mr. Pete Barber is here that
14
could probably give a better estimate.
15
But they are probably in the 40 to 60 or
16
80-cent range.
17
and the time of year and the demand.
18
Would that be fair?
19
MR. BARBER:
It depends on the size
(Inaudible) they also have a bait
20
component.
21
meal.
22
specifically (inaudible).
23
MR. LYNCH:
Some of it goes to fish
Just a food item for the Oriental
Thank you.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 155
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. SHIPP:
Any other --
Yeah.
Would you make a
distinction between the species that are
caught in the gill-net fishery and the
species that are commonly present in our
supermarkets like Winn-Dixie and
Bruno's.
8
9
10
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
I'm sorry.
I didn't
understand.
MR. SHIPP:
In other words, the species that
11
are taken in the gill-net fishery, how
12
are they the same or different than the
13
finfish that are for sale in the
14
supermarkets?
15
The reason is that there's a
16
perception that much of our finfish
17
seafood comes from our gill-net
18
fisheries.
19
that's not the case.
20
And as Pete just mentioned,
If I can expand on it a little bit,
21
the gill-net fishery does not take --
22
does not capture salmon, does not
23
capture grouper, tuna, tilapia.
All of

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 156
1
those come from a different source.
gill-net fishery is primarily Spanish
mackerel, mullet, and some of the other
lesser species; isn't that right?
MR. BLANKENSHIP:
Our
You know, our primary
landings from the gill nets are Spanish
mackerel, mullet, and menhaden.
Menhaden is not used as a food source
primarily.
10
11
It's primarily used for
other things.
But Spanish mackerel, mullet,
12
bluefish, sheepshead, you know, they are
13
used as a food source -- maybe not as
14
prevalent here in our supermarkets
15
because of consumer choice and other
16
factors.
17
menhaden, is primarily for food fish.
18
19
20
But our fisheries, other than
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Blankenship.
Mr. Harders, did you miss anything
21
on the open trapping season for
22
furbearers?
23
y'all's reports?
Are y'all complete on all

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 157
1
2
Mr. Pugh.
MR. PUGH:
Mr. Chairman, there's actually
another new business item, game animal
research proposal.
Mr. Moody to --
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Yes.
And I'd like to ask
Please discuss that.
I don't see it listed on the form, but
let's discuss it.
MR. MOODY:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I
10
think y'all all have this proposal in
11
your packet.
12
What we are proposing to do is
13
create a fund in partnership with Auburn
14
School of Forestry and Wildlife
15
Resources -- or Wildlife Sciences to
16
specifically target game animals and
17
game animal research, the research
18
priorities that we have that would lead
19
to management implications not only on
20
our lands but on private landowner
21
lands.
22
23
We're proposing to fund that in part

from funds from the Heritage License.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 158
1
And if y'all will recall, the last time
a license increase -- or license
adjustment was created by the
legislature, a new license was created,
which is the Wildlife Heritage License.
And the revenue from that by law says
the first half-million dollars has to be
used for research and the board has to
approve the directing of that spending.
10
So far the license has only
11
generated a little over $50,000.
12
proposing to use $30,000 now.
13
would be the first expenditures from
14
that fund.
15
Forestry and Wildlife has agreed to
16
match that 30,000, so there we go to
17
60.
18
additional matching funds from federal
19
sources and other sources.
20
potentially this pot could grow fairly
21
substantial and we could fund several
22
research projects.
23
We're
This
The Auburn School of
And then we're going to be seeking
So
So that's our request to you to

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 159
1
approve this first expenditure from the
Heritage License fund to start this
research.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
That's very good.
The
list is very comprehensive and very well
done in my opinion, Mr. Moody.
MR. MOODY:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
9
10
Thank you.
Any other questions from
the board on that?

MR. MOODY:
Just to be specific, Mr. Chairman,
11
that list is a suggested title that
12
we -- you know, we say in there it's not
13
absolutely the end of it.
14
to do a lot more than this in making
15
some of these changes back and forth.
16
don't want to mislead anybody.
17
18
19
20
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
We're hoping
Any other
questions?
Yes, Mr. Hartzog.
MR. HARTZOG:
One thing I'd like to add to
21
that list, Gary.
I know the Department
22
has looked at it for several years.
23
with the bear relocation into the north
But

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 160
1
delta and before the Department never
had any funds when they were wanting to
move those bears out of -- was it Hell's
Swamp -- what's the name of that swamp?
MR. MOODY:
Hell's Creek Swamp, I think.
MR. HARTZOG:
Yeah.
Move those out and try
relocation.
And I know they did some
studies up in Arkansas on the White
River about bear relocation.
But that's
10
an issue, from what I understand from
11
the bear committee of AWF -- that's a
12
big concern now because of increasing
13
numbers down there, and those need to
14
be ...
15
MR. MOODY:
Just very briefly -- and we'll be
16
glad to look at that, and I certainly
17
don't have any opposition to that.
18
of the concerns that we've got is public
19
reactions in the communities where
20
animals may be relocated.
21
thing to put a deer in a community,
22
another thing to put a bear.
23
does create anxiety.
One
It's one
And that
And we've

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 161
1
discussed that some with the Federation
and others.
think, that we've got to get around,
so -- but we'll be glad to look at it.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. HARTZOG:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
11
12
13
Any other questions?
(No response.)
10
That's the biggest nut, I
MR. HARTZOG:
Any other new business?
Can I make a motion?

Mr. Hartzog.
To approve the requests of the
Department.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Okay.
That will have to
be done the next time.
14
MR. HARTZOG:
This is not regulations.
15
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Oh, okay.
Okay.
But it
16
still has to be discussed this meeting,
17
and the next meeting we'll approve that.
18
MR. HARTZOG:
19
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
20
Okay.
the same protocol.
21
MR. HARTZOG:
22
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
23
It still has to be done
Okay.
Okay.
We've got a motion
that we need approved.
Who has that

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 162
1
motion that I gave to somebody before
the meeting?
MR. DEAN:
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
5
6
Brock.
Mr. Brock Jones.

Can you introduce that
motion, please?
MR. BROCK JONES:
The motion to approve all
department regulations since the last
approval.
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
This is a standard
10
housekeeping bill.
11
approve.
There's a motion to
Is there a second?
12
MR. LYNCH:
Second.
13
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Mr. Lynch.
There's a
14
motion and a second to approve.
15
those in favor?
16
17

CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
18
19
All
All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
Show the motion was a
20
hundred-percent affirmed and the motion
21
carries.
22
23
Any other new business?

MR. HARTZOG:
Mr. Chairman?

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 163
1
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
MR. HARTZOG:
Yes, Mr. Hartzog.
Old business, new business, just
continuing business.
still an important issue that is out
there.
of committee to put it on the floor.
It'll probably go to the floor after the
spring break session.
to call your legislators in support of
10
Forever Wild is
The house committee voted it out
We still need you
this.
11
Without Forever Wild a lot of the
12
places for us to hunt will be taken
13
away.
14
us hard.
15
phone call saying -- they give you the
16
little word blips or whatever that make
17
it sound like you ought to be against
18
Forever Wild and says punch "one" if you
19
want to call your legislator.
20
and punch "one."
21
legislator answers, tell him you're in
22
support of Forever Wild instead of
23
against, so ...
The opposition is still fighting

If you happen to get a Robo
Go ahead
And when your

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 164
1
But, anyway, we need to stay on top
of this.
senate committee.
the senate committee yet.
Wild has got to be renewed for this
state to have the lands for our public
to enjoy in the future.
8
9
It's got to go before the
CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE:
It has not gone to

But Forever
Thank you, Mr. Hartzog.
One other item of new business.
We
10
appreciate Vestavia High School allowing
11
us to have this meeting here.
12
we'll have future meetings here.
13
Commissioner Guy has made two nice
14
proclamations for the principal and the
15
superintendent.
16
they're not in attendance today, but
17
we'll make sure they get them and are
18
recognized.
19
Guy, for that.
20
Hopefully
And we'll make --
Thank you, Commissioner
All right.
The next order of
21
business is the date and location of the
22
next advisory board meeting.
23
will be May 14, 2011, and the location
The date

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 165
1
will be Lakepoint State Park in
Eufaula.
3
4
5
Being there's no further business of

this meeting, this meeting is adjourned.
(Meeting adjourned at
6
7
8
9
approximately 11:30 a.m.)

* * * * * * * * * *
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
* * * * * * * * * *
10
STATE OF ALABAMA:
11
MONTGOMERY COUNTY:
12
I, Tracye Sadler Blackwell, Certified
13
Court Reporter and Commissioner for the State of
14
Alabama at Large, do hereby certify that I reported
15
the foregoing proceedings of the State of Alabama
16
Department of Conservation and Natural Resources
17
Advisory Board Meeting on March 12, 2011.
18
The foregoing 164 computer-printed pages
19
contain a true and correct transcript of the
20
proceedings held.
21
I further certify that I am neither of
22
kin nor of counsel to the parties to said cause nor
23
in any manner interested in the results thereof.

334.263.4455
March 12, 2011
Page 166
1
This 11th day of April 2011.
2
3
4
5
6
7
___________________________
Tracye Sadler Blackwell
ACCR No. 294
Expiration date: 9-30-2011
Certified Court Reporter
and Commissioner for the State
of Alabama at Large
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23

334.263.4455

Cab 2011 Mar

Transféré par

Informations du document

Copyright

Formats disponibles

Partager ce document

Partager ou intégrer le document

Options de partage

Avez-vous trouvé ce document utile ?

Ce contenu est-il inapproprié ?

Droits d'auteur :

Formats disponibles

Cab 2011 Mar

Transféré par

Droits d'auteur :

Formats disponibles

STATE OF ALABAMA

DCNR Advisory Board Meeting DCNR Advisory Board Meeting

March 12, 2011

Proceedings taken before Tracye

Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, P.C.

DCNR Advisory Board Meeting DCNR Advisory Board Meeting

March 12, 2011

BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT:

Dan Moultrie, Chairman

INTRODUCTION OF BOARD MEMBERS

APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF LAST MEETING

Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, P.C.

DCNR Advisory Board Meeting DCNR Advisory Board Meeting

March 12, 2011

Motion by Mr. Strickland - Make

Motion by Mr. Lynch - Approval of

Motion by Mr. Shipp - Approval of

Motion by Mr. Hartzog - Approval of Wire

SELECTION OF DATE AND LOCATION OF 2011

Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, P.C.

DCNR Advisory Board Meeting DCNR Advisory Board Meeting

March 12, 2011

The March 12th, 2011,

meeting of the Conservation Advisory

Board will now come to order.

to welcome everyone to Vestavia Hills

you're able to be here today.

invocation today will be given by

Mr. Bill Hatley.

The board is glad that

you for this great day, and it is our

prayer that you would be with each

person gathered here today, bless, keep,

and direct and guide them.

in a special way we pray today for the

people of Japan who have been affected

so greatly by the earthquake that has

fallen upon them.

would bless this board.

decisions be beneficial and pleasing in

Christ's name and for His sake.

We pray that you

These things we ask in Jesus

Thank you, Mr. Hatley.

Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, P.C.

DCNR Advisory Board Meeting DCNR Advisory Board Meeting

March 12, 2011

The next order of business is the

First I'd like to introduce our

Commissioner of Conservation, Mr. Gunter

Mr. Curtis Jones.

Our Commissioner of Agriculture

ex-officio member, John McMillan.

Our other ex-officio member,

Dr. Gaines Smith from the Alabama

And then I'd like to start down on

the end with Mr. Jones.

introduce yourself and what district you

MR. RAYMOND JONES:

Raymond Jones, District 5.

Huntsville, Congressional District 5.

Grant Lynch, Talladega,

Congressional District Number 3.

Brock Jones, Tuscaloosa,