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4/14/2015

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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
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Mysisterkilledonher
missionbytheMission
President'sWifeinPortland
( self.exmormon)
submitted5hoursagoby[deleted]

Ihavebeendebatingon
whethertopostthisornot.It's
obviouslyasensitiveissue.I
decidedthatIwanttodo
whateverIcantowarnother
familiesthattheseconditions
existoutinthemissionfield.
Mysisterwasenjoyingher
missioninPortlandlast
summer.Afterreceivingsome
neededdentalsurgeryshewas
sentbacktoworkbeinga
missionaryforTheChurchof
JesusChristofLatterday
Saints.Thedentistwarnedher
tocontactadoctorifshefelt
unwellbecauseinfectionwasan
unlikelybutrealrisk.Whenmy
hardworkingsisterbeganto
havepaininhermouthshe
soughtpermissiontoseea
doctorthroughthemission
president'swife.Thisisworld
wideprotocolformissionaries.

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4/14/2015

MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon

Youaren'tsupposedtoseek
medicalhelpwithout
permissionfromyourmission
president.Mysister'srequest
wasdenied.Shewastoldto
takesomeaspirinandcontinue
thework.Mysisteraskedtosee
adoctorthreetimesoverthe
curseof2weeks.Eachtimeher
requestdenied.Mysister
reachedouttous,herfamily,
throughherweeklyemails
askinguswhatwethoughtshe
shoulddobecauseshewasin
pain.Manyofustoldherto
pleasegotothedoctorright
away.But,ourMom
encouragedhertobeobedient
tothemissionpresident'srules.
Anyonewhoisfamiliarwiththe
missionfieldrulesknowsthat
obediencewithoutquestionis
drilledintoyoungmissionaries
minds.Mysisterchosetodo
whatthemissionpresident's
wifeinstructed.Maybeshe
believedthatthemission
presidentandwifewereledby
spiritualinspiration.Maybemy
sisterthoughtshewouldbe
goingagainstGodbygoingto
thedoctor.Maybemysister
wasjustscared.Finally,the
paingotsobadtohandlethat
mysistersmissioncompanion
tookhertotheemergency
room.Infectionhadtakenhold
ofmysistersbody.Shewas
septicandadmittedintothe
hospitalfor2daysbeing
treatedwithantibioticsthrough
anIV.Wedidn'tknowifshe
wouldsurvivethatfirstnight.
Sheseemedtobedoingmuch
betteraftermedical

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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon

interventionandherdoctors
releasedherfromthehospital.
Buttheinfectionhadheldon
toostrong.Within48hoursof
beingreleasedfromthe
hospital,mysisterpassedaway
inhermissionaryapartment
bedwhileshewasasleep.She
diedfrominfectionbecauseher
missionpresidentandhiswife
wouldn'tallowhertoseea
doctorwhenshewasinpain.
MybrotherswenttoPortland
andconfrontedthemission
presidentandhiswife.They
wereextremelydefensiveand
theyyelledatmybrothersto
leavethemalone.Someofusin
thefamilywanttopress
charges.Itisdifficulttogo
againstthechurch.Theycan
payforveryskilledlawyers.Our
momdoesn'twanttopursue
anyactionagainstthemission
presidentbecauseshebelieves
thatmaybeitwasGod'swill.I
don'tagree.
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MODERATORS
IncognitoOne theOneTrueMod
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RECENTLYVIEWEDLINKS
ThedarkersideofMormonism:
/u/sadieswalltellsaheartbreaking
storyofhowhersister,asaMormon
missionary,wasdeniedpermission
fromherleaderstoobtainmedical
attention,whichultimatelyleadtoher
death.
63points|18comments

SoIcameouttomyfamily...
16points|8comments

FirstdraftofmycommentstotheBYU
accreditationpaneltomorrow.
Feedbackwanted.
50points|33comments

Mysisterkilledonhermissionbythe
MissionPresident'sWifeinPortland
2095points|400comments

ManyMillennialsmaynotgotochurch,
butlikeEvans,theyhaveachurch
story."ThereasonsMillennialsare
leavingaremorecomplexthanalack
ofcool.Wevebeenadvertisedtoour
entirelives.WecansmellB.S.froma
mileaway.Soifyourejusttryingto
sellusaproduct,wecantell.
97points|16comments

[] Mynamesnotsister 1086points5hoursago

clear

Pleasepursuelegalaction.Takethisstorytothe
press.Yourfamilymaybeabletopreventa
tragedylikethisfromhappeningtosomeone
else'ssister.Iamsosorryforyourloss.
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] firemeboy 484points4hoursago

PLEASErememberthatlitigationinthissituationisnotselfish.Thechurchwillnot
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon

changeunlessthereisareason.Unfortunately,yoursister'sdeathislikelynotreason
enough.Amultimilliondollarlawsuit,andbadpublicityWILLgivethemareason,and
WILLcausechange.
Doitforyoursister.Doitsothisdoesn'thappenagain.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefrom
externalsubreddits.
[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 103points3hoursago

Exactly.Evenifyoudon'tcareaboutpublicityormoney,thiscoulddosomething
greater:saveinnocentpeople'slives.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago*

[deleted]
[+] videogameboy76 commentscorebelowthreshold(4children)
[] xoanan 62points2hoursago

I'veheardwhentheygetsued,theywilltrytouseguilttoreducetheamount
sought,besayingthings"Wewillneedtopaythiswithconsecratedtithingfunds.
Shouldn'tyoubeaskingforless?"Pleasedon'tletthemdothistoyou.Youneedto
sendamessageloudandclearthatthisshouldABSOLUTELYneverhappenagain.
Thesafetyofallmissionariesshouldbeparamountabovetheworkthey'redoing.
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[] youngseaguy 16points2hoursago

Itdoesn'tevenmatterifyouwin.Lawsuitslikethisareadeterrentandarelikelyto
leadtoachangeinpolicyevenifitlosesincourt.Itisalsoaneffectivewaytomove
thisupthechainwithinthechurch.Thissoundslikethebadactionsoftwopeople,I
veryseriouslydoubtthechurchcondonesdenyingmedicalcare,andthechurchjust
mightchangepolicytopreventitfromhappeningagain.
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[] ghodfodder 1pointanhourago

IthinkthechurchinstructsMPstominimizehealthcareexpensesthatthe
churchwouldhavetopay.IwasalsodiscouragedbymyMPfromseeking
medicalcarewhenIwasonmymission.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago*

[deleted]
[] beerob81 2points2hoursago

Idon'tthinksheneedstoverifythis.
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[] irondeepbicycle I'mridingonatapir,doingflipsandshit 3pointsanhourago

TheycouldusethemoneytosetupascholarshipinOP'ssister'sname.
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givegold

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[] tomdarch 2pointsanhourago

Workwithyourlawyertogetanamountthatisappropriateforthesituation
regardlessofitbeingmission/churchrelated.Thethewifeoftheownerofa
companystronglydiscouragedanemployeefromseeingadoctorwhenitwasclearly
statedbyadentistthatsheshoulddosoifshefeltpain,andrefusedrepeatedly
overtwoweeks,thatwouldbevery,veryserious.
Insistonanamountappropriateforthesituation,andusethemoneytoestablishor
contributetoacharityinyoursister'shonorandmemorythatshewouldhave
supported.
Itisinsaneandappallingthatover18sonmissionswouldneedpermissiontoseea
doctorwhentheyarehavingclearproblemssuchaspain.Arequirementtoinform
theofficialswiththemissionissillyandinappropriate,butwouldbeanimportant
improvementoverthecurrent,obviouslydangerousapproach.
Ican'tbegintoexpresshowsorryIamforyourandyourfamily'stragicloss.
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[] eastupward 1point42minutesago

Thepowerofintimidation.Ifithappenstoone,ithappenstoothers.Thisstory
makesmesick.
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givegold

[] Endlessintegrity 1point1hourago

IbelievethisisinGODsrealscheme.Toboycotttheseassholes!
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givegold

[] matt2001 137points3hoursago

Asaretiredphysician,Igenerallylookforreconciliation.However,whatyou'rereporting
hereisindefensible.Themissionpresidentandfamilygetmaids,healthcareanda
mansiontolivein.Thepoorkidsgetshit.Thechurchneedstobeheldaccountable
thishastochange.I'malsocuriouswhyshediedtwodaysafterdischarge.Thatisared
flag.Isawherpictureandfeltgreatsorrowthatherlifewascutshort,andforwhat?
Mycondolencestoyouandyourfamily.
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[] ShadeA2 7points1hourago

Iagree.Thiscannotbesweptundertherugandforgotten.Thismakesmeangry
toseethisnegligencehappen.Iftoothrelated(whichismostofthetime)This
couldhavebeenpreventedwithaSimpletoothextractionorrootcanal.
AsadentistworkinginahospitalsettingIseepatientseverydaywithfacial
swellingsandinfectedteeth.AnyswellingrelatedtodecayorabcessMUSTbetaken
seriously.Theseinfectionscanspreadveryquicklyinamatterofhoursespeciallyin
youngchildren.Antibioticswillnotfixtheunderlyingcauseandwithoverusecan
potentiallymakethesituationworse.Iamdeeplysorryforyourlose.Pleasereach
outandletusknowhowwecanhelp.
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[] DreadPiratesRobert FormerElderDread 3points1hourago

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Yeah,I'mjustanEMT,butIfeellikesomeonebeingdischargedthendieingtwo
dayslaterfromsepsisisahugeredflagforthehospitalaswell.OPsattorneyswill
likelysueeveryoneinvolved,andwithgoodreason.
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[] SoulSherlock GREEK:apostates,meaningrunawayslave 2points59minutesago

Churchmedicalinsuranceformissionariesisajoke.ThehandfuloftimesIsaw
healthcareproviderswereinlousyconditionsandthecarewasawful(andIserved
stateside).IreallyhopethattheOPpursueslitigation,andtakescareoftheir
family.Thisisheartbreaking.
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[] matt2001 1point44minutesago

Theyhave80,000+kidsnow.Thatisabigresponsibility.Theyshouldspareno
expenseincaringforthem.TheChurchreliesonthefaithfultojustbowtheir
headsandnotrocktheboat.
MydaughterservedinthePeaceCorps.Shehadexcellenthealthcareanda
livingstipend.Whatadifference.
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givegold

[] ghodfodder 2points57minutesago

Whatdoestheredflagsuggesttoyou?Thatthephysicianswerenegligentorthat
thechurchinsurancepushedtogetherreleasedearly?
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[] matt2001 3points49minutesago

Thatneedstobeexplored.Somequestionscometomind.
1. Ifshewasseptic,wasthecausediscoveredabscess,osteomyelitis?
2. Wasthetreatmentappropriateandadequate?
3. WasshefollowedbyID?
4. Didanoralsurgeonsignoffonhercare?
5. Wastheinsurancecompanypushingforearlyrelease?Followup?
6. Whywouldsomeonebedeniedaccesstomedicalcareforweeks?
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[] ARthUrpHilIpdenu It'snotasecretcombination,it'sasacredcombination. 99points4hoursago

Thiscouldveryeasilygettheupvotemomentumtoreachr/all...thatwouldmakeit
prettypublic.
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 87points4hoursago*

Especiallyifitgetslinkedto/r/bestof.Thatusuallyattractsalotofpeople.
Edit:Fuckit,I'mlinkingit.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 9points2hoursago

Yourpointsarevalid.ButIdidn'twanttocriticizehertooheavilyrightnow,
since(ifshe'stellingthetruth),isgoingthroughaterribleloss.
Asfarasverificationgoes,Isawseveralposterswhotalkedaboutastory
theyreadaboutamissionary'sdeathinOregon.Maybetheycanprovide
moreinformation.IfOPdoestakelegalactionorgoestothemedia,then
she'llbeforcedtoprovideevidence.
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[] relevantlife 13points1hourago*

Hereisamissionaryblogfromlastyear.
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoCONFIRMthestory.Incase
the"socalled"churchcontactsthismissionaryandrequestsshetakeher
blogdown,hereisascreenshotofthepost.
Also,thisobit:
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[] [deleted]1hourago

[deleted]
[] Pickleburp Brokemissionrulesandsurvivedtotellaboutit. 4points2hoursago*

I'vebeenlooking,there'snothing.Ifoundalistofmissionarydeaths
fromcaraccidents,CO2poisoning,otheraccidents/issues.Sometimes
morethanonearticle.NothingaboutamissionarydyinginPortland,
Oregonmissionanytimeinthepastfiveyears.
EDIT:Didfindsomeinfo,veryinterestingthatthere'snothingfromUtah
pressonit.Maybebecausethefamilyisn'tfromUtah.Ifthisislegit,OP
shouldtakeitpublic.EventheLDSNewspageforthePortlandmission
hadnoinformation.
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[] bt2184 2points2hoursago

Thisisstartingtolooklikeahoaxpost.Ihopenot,buttherearen'tanynews
storiesverifyingthestory.
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[] relevantlife 3points1hourago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoconfirmthestory.
Also,thisarticle:http://www.frontiersman.com/obituaries/samantha
lierley/article_4f319f90e94911e398790019bb2963f4.html
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[] beerob81 1point2hoursago

Youseemtobepostingthisofteninhere.Almostlikeyou'reprotectingthe
church....
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago

Ifyou'lllookinmyposthistoryyou'llseeIfrequent/r/exmormonalot.
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givegold

[] beerob81 3points2hoursago

I'mjustshittingwithyou.Thispostistotallybogus.Idon'tthink
anybodywoulddenyamissionarymedicalaccessafterasurgery.
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givegold

[] laughingeconomist 4points2hoursago

Ifitmatters,someonedidprovidemewiththesistermissionary's
nameandIwasabletoverifyatleastthebasicsofthestory,so
I'mremovingmycomments.
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givegold

[] INeedFreud

1point1hourago

Sowhatyou'resayingisyou'reachurchspy.Areyouonthe
strengtheningchurchmemberscommittee?
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givegold

[] laughingeconomist 0points1hourago

I'monacommitteesosupersecretthatyou'venever
heardofit.)
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givegold

[] WyG09s8x4JM4ocPMnYMg 2points1hourago

Hellofrom/r/all
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givegold

[] The_Last_Y Youwantreligion,doyou? 72points4hoursago

Iwouldhappilydonatetoyourfees.
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givegold

[] childsbeardthepirate 60points3hoursago

Iwillbemorethanhappytodonatetoakickstarterfundforattorneysfeesaswell.
OPifyouseethis,andyoudecideinthefuturetopursuelegalactionmakeit
known.Wearehereforyou.Nooneshouldeverofhadtogothroughthis.
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givegold

[] Daenr 25points3hoursago

Itoowoulddonateforlegalfees
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givegold

[] dsngltn 12points2hoursago

Meto.
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givegold

[] ta9g 12points2hoursago

Methre
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[] zempter 10points2hoursago
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pleaselinktothekickstarterifyoudo.
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givegold

[] Sadsquatch 1point1hourago

Youcan'tkickstartforlegalfees.
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givegold

[] MeatCommerceAgent 1point1hourago

Metoo
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givegold

[] veryangryj 1point56minutesago

Iwouldalsoabsolutelydonate.
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givegold

[] mormonapost8 34points3hoursago*

Seconded.Thisissuchaterriblestoryandsadlyit'snotanisolatedevent.Whateverthe
officialpolicyofthechurch,missionpresident'swivestypicallyassumeadefacto
motherlyroleinthemissionfieldthatusuallyincludesoverseeinghealthproblems.I'm
awareofacaseofamissionarywhohadtoundergodoublehipreplacementsurgery
afterhismissionbecausethemissionpresident'swifecontinuallyinsistedhekeep
workingdespiteterriblepain.IfIremembercorrectly,mostofthecartilageinhiships
hasdeterioratedandhisbonesweregrindingtogetheratthejoint.Thiswasina
missionthatrequiredalotofwalking.
It'sridiculousandflatoutirresponsibleformissionpresidentsortheirwivesoranyone
whoisnotproperlytrainedtobegivingmedicaladvicetokidsthatarenotonlygiving
theirfulltimetothechurchbutpayingforit.Thechurchandindividualsshouldbeheld
accountable.
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[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 7points3hoursago

Couldhehimselfsue,orwouldthefamilyhavetobeonboard?Soundslikethatlatter
ain'thappening
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[] AngryPurpleTeddyBear 2points2hoursago

Thereareacoupledifferentwaysawrongfuldeathsuitcouldproceedinthiscase,
dependingonthelawsofthestateinvolved.It'spossiblethatOPalonecouldbring
thesuitonbehalfofthesister'sestate.UnfortunatelyforOP,thatdecisionoften
restswiththedeceased'sheir(s)/namedexecutor,andIdoubtOP'ssisterhadawill.
Absentawill,theadministrationofthesister'sestatewillmostlikelyfalltothe
parents,anditdoesn'tsoundlikethey'llbewillingtopursuealawsuit.
Source:Amlawyer.
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[] Mynamesnotsister 1point1hourago

AmInaive,orcanhesueforlossofsisterlycompanionship?
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[] AngryPurpleTeddyBear 2points1hourago
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon

Again,dependsonthestateandwhichcausesofactionarerecognized,but
it'shighlyunlikely.First,manystatesdon'tevenrecognizelossofconsortium
claims.Second,amongthosethatdo,mostjustrecognizemarital
relationshipsasthebasisofaclaimasmallminorityalsorecognizeparent
childrelationships,butIcan'tthinkofasinglestateoffthetopofmyhead
thatindependentlyrecognizessiblingrelationshipsasthebasisforlossof
consortiumclaims.
Someotherstatesincludelossofconsortiumasanelementofdamages
includedinawrongfuldeathcauseofaction,butagain,thatwouldhaveto
stemfromawrongfuldeathclaimbroughtbytherepresentativeofOP's
sister'sestate,which(asIoutlinedabove)willmostlikelybeOP'sparents.
TLDRYou'renotnaive,butit'shighlyunlikelythatOPcouldindependently
bringaclaimforanylossofconsortiumwithhissister.
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givegold

[] Mynamesnotsister 1point1hourago

Thanksforanswering
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[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] eternigator 15points2hoursago

WhenIcontactedfriendswhoservedinthePortlandmissionduringthesame
timeperiod,theysaidthattheyhadheardnothingaboutamissionaryintheir
missiondying.
IdidabitofgooglingandfoundrumorsofasistermissionaryintheVancouver,WA
missiondyingunderthesamecircumstances.TheVancouver,WAmissioncontains
Portland.SoI'mnottotallywritingoffthestorybutI'mstillnottotallybelievingit
either.
WhatI'msayingisthatlet'snotallgoafterOPandaccusethemofbeingaliar.
Nobody'sdoingthatyetbutyourcommentisrisingquickly.Thishasbeenlinkedon
r/bestofandredditlikesagoodwitchhunt.
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[] Pickleburp Brokemissionrulesandsurvivedtotellaboutit. 2points2hoursago

NooneisgoingafterOP,/u/laughingeconomistisjusturgingcaution.
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givegold

[] laughingeconomist 4points2hoursago

Iknow,Iwasoneofthefirstonespostingthoseurgesofcaution.I've
deletedthemnowthatI'vereceivedverificationofthebasicstorydetails.
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givegold

[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 1point1hourago

Iactuallyverymuchappreciatethecautionandskepticism,bytheway.I
don'twantyoutofeellikeyoushouldbechidedforofferingadifferent
view(especiallysinceweoftencriticizetbmsforonlylookingatonepoint
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ofview).
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[] eternigator 2points2hoursago

IsaidinmycommentthatnobodyisgoingafterOP.Yet.Theproblemis
thatcommentslikelaughingeconomist'scanquicklyleadtowitchhunts
againsttheOP.Especiallywhenametasublike/r/bestofgetsinvolved.
That'swhyI'murgingpeopletobecautiousintheotherdirectiontoo.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] eternigator 1point2hoursago

Iagreecompletely.IjustmademycommentbecauseI'veseenthissortof
situationbecomeawitchhuntagainstOP.
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givegold

[] relevantlife 1point1hourago

Hereisamissionaryblogfromlastyear.
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoCONFIRMthestory.Incasethe"so
called"churchcontactsthismissionaryandrequestsshetakeherblogdown,
hereisascreenshotofthepost.
Also,thisobit:
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givegold

[] eternigator 1point1hourago

Yep,that'sthepersonwhoIfoundtherumorsabout.ButIdon'tthinkthat
weshouldbepostinghernamehere.OPdeservessomeprivacy,inmy
opinion.
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givegold

[] greeken0612 PornShoulders 3points2hoursago

IsthistheoneaboutArgentina?
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givegold

[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago

That'stheone.
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givegold

[] BibliotecaDeBabel 7points2hoursago

Iagree.Prettysurprisingthatthereisnotraceofthisdeathontheinternet.
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 13points1hourago

http://www.frontiersman.com/obituaries/samanthalierley/article_4f319f90
e94911e398790019bb2963f4.html
http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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givegold

[] DrAminove 2points1hourago
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Also,thisdiscussiononanexmormonforum.
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givegold

[] veryangryj 1point51minutesago

Ugh.Thecognitivedissonanceintheseisdisgusting.
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givegold

[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] BibliotecaDeBabel 5points2hoursago

Ditto.Thereareplentyofwebsitesthattrackmissionarydeaths,and
consideringthiswasjustlastsummerthereisnowayitwasn'tcovered.
Unless,theconspiracytheoristinusassumesthatthechurchaskedthe
familytostayhush.
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givegold

[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 3points2hoursago

Weshouldbeskepticalforsure,butIdon'tthinkthatdiscussingorgetting
madaboutsomethinglikethismakesuslookbad.Ifthechurchwere
transparent,wewouldn'thavetorelyonsuchunverifiedinformation.We
dealwithwhatwehave.Therealculpritisthechurchthatmakessureto
coverupallofitswarts.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 1point2hoursago

Yeah,buttheothersideiswayworse.Thinkofallthe3nephite,
miracle,and"Iconvinced300oftheanyopposers"storieswehear
aboutallthetime.
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givegold

[] nothanks132 3points2hoursago

Pleaserepostthisasatoplevelcommenttoallowitrisetothetop.
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[] Captain_Blue_Shell 1points2hoursago

Shewassepticandadmittedintothehospitalfor2daysbeingtreatedwith
antibioticsthroughanIV.Wedidn'tknowifshewouldsurvivethatfirstnight.
Sheseemedtobedoingmuchbetteraftermedicalinterventionandherdoctors
releasedherfromthehospital.Buttheinfectionhadheldontoostrong.Within
48hoursofbeingreleasedfromthehospital,mysisterpassedawayinher
missionaryapartmentbedwhileshewasasleep.Shediedfrominfectionbecause
hermissionpresidentandhiswifewouldn'tallowhertoseeadoctorwhenshe
wasinpain.
Yeah,that'scompleteandutterBS.IfshewasinsepsisandreceivingIVantibiotics,
therewasnofreakingwayintheworldthatahospitalwouldhavelethergohome
aftertwodays.
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[] PresidentNEWSROOM 6points3hoursago

IwishIcouldupvotethisumpteentimes!
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givegold

[] Ah_Q 2points1hourago

Attorneycheckingin.
SuethefuckoutoftheChurch.NametheMPandhiswifeasdefendantsaswell.
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givegold

[] IM_A_BIG_FAT_GHOST 1point35minutesago

I'venoticedthatOPdeletedmostoftheirposts...sorryforattachingtothetop
commentbutIfeelthatIneedtosaysomething.IwasaMormonmissionaryin
JohannesburgSouthAfricain1996.Ihadamedicalemergencyandexperience
somethingverysimilartowhatOPwastalkingabout.Thechurchneedstochangetheir
standardsonhowtotreatmedicalconditionsformissionaries.Prayingaboutasuper
seriousnutinfectionisnottheanswer.Seeingachurchdoctorthreetimesandhaving
themdenyyouthemedicalattentionthatyouneedisdepressing.Iactuallybroke
missionaryprotocolsothatIcouldgetsenthome...endedupbeingrushedtosurgery
intheUnitedStatesonceIarrived.IhavepersonalexperienceinthisandIwouldbe
happytoansweranybody'squestionsontheissue.
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givegold

[] Raveo 2points1hourago

Alawsuitagainstwhat?Hissisterwasfreetogotothehospitalatanytimeshe
pleased.Whatexactlywouldhesuethemfor?
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givegold

[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 4points1hourago

Ithinkyou'reunderestimatingjusthowbrainwashedmissionariesare.Theyget
"obedience"drilledintotheirheadsconstantly.Atsomepoint,theytrusttheir
leadersmorethanthemselves,andtheytreatdoubtlikeit'saweakness(asin,you
don'thaveenoughfaith).Ifyou'veservedamission,youshouldknowwhatthisis
like.Ifyouhaven't,takeitfromareturnedmissionary:missionariesare
brainwashedinthetruestsenseoftheword.
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givegold

[] hamsalad 1point1hourago

Imaginethisscenario:aWalmartemployeeexperiencessharp,excruciatingpainin
hisabdomen.Hetellshissupervisorthatheneedstogotothehospital.His
supervisordeniestherequestandtellshimtogotothehospitalattheendofhis
shift.Theemployeediesofsepsisasaresultofacuteappendicitis.
Theemployeecertainlycouldhaveleftearlyforthehospital,butdidn'tduetofear
oflosinghisjob.Thiswouldalmostcertainlyresultinamultimilliondollar
settlement.Onethingeverymanagerofeverystripelearns:ifyouexerciseyour
authority,youowntheconsequences.
Ofcourse,thisisanunrealisticscenariobecauseevenaWalmartsupervisorknows
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youdon'tdenysickpeoplemedicalattention.
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] tennder 274points5hoursago

Honestly,IwouldgotoCaliforniaandgetGloriaAllred.GetasmuchPRandbuzzaboutthe
storyaspossible.thechurchmayhaveveryskilled,polished,expensiveattorneysatKirton
McConkie,buttheirweakspotisbadpublicity.Justmakeitacircuswithmediaeventsand
newstoriesandinternettrafficandtheywouldbuckleandsettleoutofcourtASAP.
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[] MorticiaSmith JosephtriedtosendGomezonamission. 140points4hoursago

Peoplebashher,butmanyyearsagosheproBonohelpedmymotherkeepherjob
whenheremployertriedtoFireherforbeingpregnantwithme.Allittookwasa
droppinghercardonthedesksayingnexttimewearebringingourlawyer.
I'vegotaprettysoftspotforher.
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givegold

[] Latin_Lover 75points4hoursago

It'snotaboutsettlingoraboutmoney!That'swhatiwouldliketothinkopisthinking.
Themoneyshouldbethelastthinginmind.Whatismoreimoprtantistoshowthe
worldhowthechurchnegletsit'smissionary'sandmembersandpeopleingeneral.This
shouldturnintosomethingmore,heshoulddoitforhissisterandpeaceofmind!
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givegold

[] tennder 25points4hoursago

thepostaskediftheyshouldpursuelegalaction.Legalactionwillgetmessyand
expensivequickwiththechurch.Asidefromsheddinglightonthestoryand
honoringthesisterthatdiedneedlessly,itwillhelpothersbeingpressuredinto
goingorfeeltheirchildwantstogowithoutacquittedassurancethattheywouldbe
takencaredforwhilethere.IFthelegalcasedoesitsjobthanyes,thechurchwill
settleASAPcausetheyknowtheyarebeingshowninahorriblelighttheycant
refute.Itsnotaboutthemoney,correct.Butthequestionwasaboutlegalavenues
andthoseendquicklywithsettlementifthisisdonecorrectly.
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givegold

[] Latin_Lover 14points4hoursago

Ofcoursetakinganyactionagainstahugecorperationhasit'sfinancialcost,
althoughifenoughevidenceispresentedanyattorneywouldpickthecaseup
andathirdpartywouldgetinvolvedtopayoffwhilethecaseissettled.Ithink
itwouldbetakencarebythelawyer,anyonecanseethatthepresidentwasat
faultitshouldn'tbehardtomakeacase,althoughmakingtheother
missionary'scomecleanaboutthewholedealcouldprovedifficult.thoughthe
medicalfacilitywereshewastreatedshouldhaverecordsaboutherconditions
andtheyareforcedtogiveupmedicalinformationifitissoneededforcourt,it
shouldn'tbehardtoconvencethedoctortostandincourtandpresenthis
findings,itshouldbeeasyforhimtoshowcontinuedneglet,aswellasi'am
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awarethatopsaidhehademail'sregardingherandhercontinuedsituation.
Thiscaseshouldbeeasytofileandgetasettlement,thethingisnowishowop
willgoaboutit.Itwillcostmoney,butthereareorganizationsthatcanhelp
withthatwhilethecaseissettledandtomeitseemsthatophasthiscase,it's
uptohimandhisfamilytoseewhatactionstheytakeifany.youarecorrect
regardingyourconcerns!
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givegold

[] vh65 AddictedtoTruthandTea 6points3hoursago

Butpartofthesettlementcouldbechangingprocedurestohaveadoctoror
registerednursehotlineformissionaries,withthatpersonmakingtreatment
authorizationsratherthanuntrainedMPwives.
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givegold

[] why_the_lies 35points4hoursago

Yes,andnotjustneglect,butencouragingnaiveobedience,makingonebelievethat
divinewill,orleadership'inspiration',trumpsonesownreasoning.ThefactthatOPs
momcouldsaymaybeitwasGodswillisevidenceofthattypeof'faith'.
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givegold

[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 13points4hoursago

Precisely,andit'sthistypeof"faith"thatgetsinnocentpeoplekilled.
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[] Echo1883

givegold
23points3hoursago

ThatswhyyoudemandWAYtoomuchtosettle.Thatwaytheyareforcedtoeither
paysomestupidamountofmoney(imtalking500million)ortheyareforcedtogo
tocourt.Youcanmakeitsothattheycan'tsettlesinceitsimplytoomuchmoney,
andthenyougettoparadeitaroundthecourtsforaslongaspossiblewhilethe
mediahasahaydaywithit.
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givegold

[] takatori 7points3hoursago

Heyday,actuallybutnowIwonderwherethewordcamefrom...
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givegold

[] Echo1883

4points3hoursago

Apparentlyitsfrombackinlikethe1500'sanditwasoriginally"heyda"
whichwasanexclamationofsurpriseorhappiness.Justgoogled"heyday
etymology"...lol
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givegold

[] AlphaEnder 0points2hoursago

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heyday
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givegold

[] graspingreality 28points4hoursago

This.IgotintoatusslewithoneoftheforprofitarmsofthechurchonceandimpliedI
mightgopublicwithourdispute.IgotacallfromaKMlawyerandwesettledthings
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withinafewminutes.Theyabsolutelydonotwantbadpublicity.
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givegold

[] HANEZ 1point2hoursago

Whathappened?
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givegold

[] morenfin 1point1hourago

notop,butI'dassumetheyhadhimsignanNDAaspartofthesettlement.I'd
beverysurprisediftheydidn't.
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givegold

[] Faith_is_ignorance Hitchslapped 1point1hourago

Youcanbetyourassthiswon'tbeonthelocalksl.comsitebecausethisisn't"faith
promoting".
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givegold

[] sethra007 139points5hoursago

Whenmyhardworkingsisterbegantohavepaininhermouthshesoughtpermission
toseeadoctorthroughthemissionpresident'swife.Thisisworldwide
protocolformissionaries.Youaren'tsupposedtoseekmedicalhelpwithout
permissionfromyourmissionpresident.
NeverMohere.First,I'mhorrifiedonyourbehalf,andsovery,verysorryforyoursisterand
thelossyourfamilyisdealingwith.Myheartgoesouttoallofyouandyouhavemy
deepestcondolences.
Now:
Whattheactualfuck?Why?!Whatpossiblereasoncouldtheyhaveforhavingsucharule?!
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[] ARthUrpHilIpdenu It'snotasecretcombination,it'sasacredcombination. 84points4hoursago*

Missionariesgoonthechurch'shealthinsurance,sovisitsmustbeapprovedtobe
covered.Italsoactsasafiltertopreventoveruse,andI'msurethere'sfinancial
pressuretokeepuselow.
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givegold

[] sethra007 60points4hoursago

Missionariesgoonthechurch'shealthinsurance...andI'msurethere'sfinancial
pressuretokeepuselow.
Ijustfeltmystomachtwistinknots....
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givegold

[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 40points4hoursago

Theyreallywanttoprotecttheirowninvestments.Missionariesaresometimes
deniedtoevengoonmissionsiftheyaretoooverweightorhavecertainmedical
conditions.
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[] Echo1883

givegold
21points3hoursago

investments
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cringe
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[] Echo1883

givegold
6points3hoursago

AndpeoplesometimesaskwhyIbelievetheCOLDSisacult....Theypullsome
reallyfuckedupshitwithmissionaries.Lotsofotherstufftoo,butmissionaries
seemtogetittheworst.
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givegold

[] filologo 1point2hoursago

IrememberreadingsomestoriesaboutpeoplewholefttheUnification
ChurchandthinkingabouthowsimilartheyweretomostofthethingsI
wentthroughonmymission.Asanormalmembermyexperiencescouldn't
havebeenmoredifferent,butasamissionaryitwasshockinghowclosethey
were.
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givegold

[] kolobs_bitch 24points2hoursago

Canconfirm.HadtohavemyappendixremovedwhileonamissioninEurope.After
afewweeks,missionprezsentmetoanob/gynwhosaidIjustneededtotake
somehormones.Afterthreemoreweeks(ofhorrendouspain),wenttoseea
differentdoctor.Wasadmittedtothehospitalthatnightandoperatedon
immediately.Thesurgeonsaidmyentireinsideswereinfected.Parentswerenever
toldaboutituntilIcalledthembecauseIwasn'tgettingbetter.Areaprezrefused
tosendmehometoseeadoctoruntilmyparentsthreatenedhim.Itwasthefirst
andonlytimemyparentstookmysideagainstsomeoneinthechurch.Theywere
scaredformylife.Frankly,Iwastoo.ButIdidfinallygetbetter.Itjusttook
monthsinsteadofweeks.
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givegold

[] kolobs_bitch 17points2hoursago

AlsostatesidedoctorsaidImightnotbeabletohavechildrenafterwhathad
happenedtomyinsides.Thankfully,hewaswrong.
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givegold

[] L0neKitsune 1point1hourago

Thisabsolutelyterrifiesmebecausemyappendixblew3monthafterIwas
supposedtoleaveformymission.LuckilyIdecidedtonotgoonmymissionand
stoppedgoingtochurchinstead.
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givegold

[] thelinchpin 15points4hoursago

InEurope,wepaidcashformissionaryhealthexpensesthensentMissionaryMedical
thebill,whowouldthenbillthemissionary'sinsurancecompany.Missionaries
withoutmedicalinsurancereceivedthecaretheyneededacutelybutweresent
homeiftherewasanythingthatwouldrequiremorechroniccare.
Inthemissionoffice,the"sacredtithingfunds"werespentlikeabottomlesswallet.
Becausewheneverweneededmoremoney,wejustrequestedmoremoney,and
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we'dgetit.
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givegold

[] kolobs_bitch 10points2hoursago

Copyingmycommentfromabove.IservedamissioninEurope197980.Hadto
havemyappendixremovedduringthattime.Afterafewweeksofinitialpain,
missionprezsentmetoanob/gynwhosaidIjustneededtotakesome
hormones.Afterthreemoreweeks(ofhorrendouspain),wenttoseeadifferent
doctor.Wasadmittedtothehospitalthatnightandoperatedonimmediately.
Thesurgeonsaidmyentireinsideswereinfected.Parentswerenevertoldabout
ituntilIcalledthembecauseIwasn'tgettingbetter.Areaprezrefusedtosend
mehometoseeadoctoruntilmyparentsthreatenedhim.Itwasthefirstand
onlytimemyparentstookmysideagainstsomeoneinthechurch.Theywere
scaredformylife.Frankly,Iwastoo.ButIdidfinallygetbetter.Itjusttook
monthsinsteadofweeks.
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givegold

[] curious_mormon Truthneverlostgroundbyenquiry. 7points3hoursago

Onmymisison,theofficeeldersbeforemedidthattoo.Suddenlythemission
wasauditedbysaltlake,andtheywerenolongerofficeelders.
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givegold

[] dsngltn 24points4hoursago*

HereisacommentbyaTBMwhoistryingtotreadcarefullywhileexpressingsomeof
hisconcernswithhowthechurchprovideshealthcareforitsmissionaries.
Scrolldownto"HealthCareForMissionaries:UsuallyGreat,ButSomeImprovement
MayBeNeeded".
Afewnotablequotes:
Inasecondandmoreseriouscase,amissionary'srepeatedrequeststoseeadoctor
wereallegedlydeniedbyawellmeaningmissionpresident'swife.Shethoughtthe
painsinhissidemightbeduetoinadequatefluidsandrecommendeddrinkingwater
orGatorade.Hehadappendicitis.Fortunately,themissionaryisOKnow,butI
understandthathewasworriedandunsatisfiedwiththerecommendationfromthe
missionmom.Hishealthcouldhavebeenprotectedbetterbymakingiteasiertosee
adoctor.
And
Themission'sscreenershadbelievedtheinjurytobeminorandwouldnotauthorize
avisittoaphysician,evenafteracoupleofconcernedlocalmemberscalledvarious
partiestointervenefortheelder.However,Xraysconfirmedthatthemissionary's
injurywasmoreseriousthanthemissionpresident'swifeandaremoteChurch
doctorhadrecognized,andconfirmedthatahigherlevelofcarewasneeded.Infact,
themissionarywillrequiresurgery(relativelyminor,fortunately).
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givegold

[] Tyopa 21points3hoursago

WhyonGod'sgreenearthisaMissonpresident'swifegivingdiagnosis'?Hellnurses
ingeneralcan'tevengivediagnosis',andiftheydoandgetitwrongtheygettheir
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assessuedoff.
Idaresaythere'saseriousproblemwithareligionwhentheycaremoreabouttheir
quarterlystatementthanhumanlives.
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givegold

[] dsngltn 9points3hoursago

Ithinkthisisaprettystandardoperatingprocedurethoughoutthechurch.The
sickmissionarytalkstotheMP'swifeandshepassesthatinfoontoachurch
doctorforarecommendation.
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givegold

[] Tyopa 2points1hourago

Andwhythatisastandardprocedureconfoundsme.Likehavingamissional
doctorcarefortherestofmissionariessoundsinfinitelysmarter.
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givegold

[] INeedFreud

2points1hourago

Hashtagdeathpanels
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givegold

[] dsngltn 54points4hoursago*

It's100%afinanciallymotivatedpolicy.Thechurchisselfinsuredsoanymedical
expensesincurredbymissionariesarepaidbythechurch.Thereweremanycaseson
mymissionwheremissionariesweretoldtojusttakeoverthecountermedicationsto
dealwithproblemstheyshouldbeseeingsdoctorover.
OneofmanyexamplesIcanthinkofwasanelderwhowastakingaboxofImodiumAD
adayduetoconstantdiarrheaandpainfulcrampingthatlastedformonths.Thiswasa
statesidemissionsothiswasnotsomebughepickedupinaforeigncountry
somethingwaswrongwithhim.HewasalwaysonthephonewiththeMission
President'swifeaskingforpermissiontogotoadoctor,buttheanswerwasalwaysno.I
guaranteeyouthatOP'sstoryisnottheonlyexampleofsomeonedyingwhileontheir
missionduetothechurchworryingmoreaboutexpensesthanmissionaries.
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givegold

[] sethra007 29points4hoursago

It's100%afinanciallymotivatedpolicy.Thechurchisselfinsuredsoany
medicalexpensesincurredbymissionariesarepaidbythechurch.Therewere
manycasesonmymissionwheremissionariesweretoldtojusttakeoverthe
countermedicationstodealwithproblemstheyshouldbeseeingsdoctorover...
IguaranteeyouthatOP'sstoryisnottheonlyexampleofsomeonedyingwhile
ontheirmissionduetothechurchworryingmoreaboutexpensesthantheyare
missionaries.
I'mspeechless.I'mabsolutelyspeechless.
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givegold

[] desertrat22 27points4hoursago

AsIunderstand,ifthemissionaryhasfamilycoverage,theyremainunderthat
privatecoverage,inwhichcasemedicalneedsandappointmentsarenoneofthe
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church'sdamnbusinessIMO.
Ifthemissionaryisuninsured,thentheywouldfallunderthechurchinsurance.
Theproblemhereisthatwehaveadults(missionaries)beingtreatedlike
kindergartnersaskingforpermissiontogotakealeak.
Sohorriblywrongandterriblytragicinthissituation.
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givegold

[] Paradox760 7points3hoursago

Myfamilyhadverygoodmedicalcoverage.BeforeIleftformymission,my
bishoptoldmyMomtotakemeoffsoIcould"receivecareandinstructionunder
theadvisementoftheChurch."It'salsofree,soIthinklotsofpeopleopttouse
Churchinsurance.
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givegold

[] GeneticsGuy 1point38minutesago

Thisisweird,asIwentonmymissionandjusthaddoubleinsurance
coverage.Nooneevertoldmyfamilyormyselftodiscontinuemyinsurance.
Thereissuchathinghashavingdoublecoverage.Verycommon.I'venever
heardofanyonebeingtoldtocanceltheircoverageandjusthaveone?
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givegold

[] Paradox760 14points3hoursago

Icanabsolutelyconfirmthis.Ihadseveralmedicalproblemsonmymission,andI
oftenhadtroublegettingpermissiontoseeadoctor.Mymissionpresident'swife
explicitlytoldmethatthechurchinstructedthemtopreventdoctorsvisitsunless
absolutelynecessaryinordertokeepcostsdown.
Icanunderstandalargeorganizationtryingtopreventcoststhatarecompletely
frivolous.However,theyhaveputthedecisionmakingpowerinthehandsofpeople
whodonothavethemedicalknowledgerequiredtomakesuchdecisions.My
missionpresident'swifedemonstratedthisrepeatedly.Shewouldfrequentlymake
ludicrousassumptionsaboutmymedicalconditions.
Atonepointmycompanionreceivedaseriousheadwound.Bloodwasliterally
pouringoutofhishead,andwewereunabletostiflethebleeding.Hesoonbecame
lightheaded,andthenbeganblackingout.Icalledmypresident'swifetoinformher
thatIwastakinghimtotheER.Shetoldmenottogo.Shetoldmethathead
woundsusuallybleedalot,andthatitwasnothingtoworryabout.IinsistedthatI
wastakinghimtothehospital,andtoldherthatshehadbetterhavetheinsurance
sidetakencareof.Guesswhat?Itturnedouttobeaseriousinjury!Shelater
thankedmefordisregardingherandtakingcareofhim.
Peoplelikethisshouldnotberesponsibleforthesedecisions.Beingableto
memorizeafewmedicalfactsisnotareasonablequalification.Moreimportantly,
thereisnoguaranteethatthepeopleinthesepositionsarecapableofmaking
importantdecisionsforothers.Thisisespeciallytruewhentheyarepressuredby
theirleaderstosavemoneyforthechurch.
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[] dsngltn 8points3hoursago

TheproblemisexacerbatedduetothefactthatMormonsaretaughtfrom
infancytobeobedienttochurchleaders.It'snotlikeannormaljobwhere
employeeshavesomeabilitytopressuremanagementtoprovidebetterhealth
care.Missionaries(includingmewhenIwasone)feltitwasasintoactively
challengechurchleaders.
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givegold

[] articulett 1point1hourago

Plusthere'sthisideathat"God"iswatchingoutforyou...andsoyouhaveto
have"faith"orelsehemightnothelpyouout.Ifyoudon'tgetbetterit's
yourfaultfornothavingenough"faith".
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givegold

[] gilbertgrappa 1point1hourago

Coloncancer?Crohn'sdisease?
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givegold

[] dsngltn 1point1hourago

Idon'tknow.Heneversawadoctorthenwenthomeseveralmonthslater.I
didn'tstayintouchwithhim.
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[] hissho1 14points4hoursago

Compliance.Obediencemakesforgoodcompliantrobotsoldiers.
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[] onlythecosmos

givegold
3points3hoursago

Tosavemoney
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[] HANEZ 2points2hoursago

Why?Answer:$$$$
Everythingneedsapprovalbythechurchleadership.Outoftoiletpaperandneedtogo
tothestore,butitsnotyour"preparationday",thatneedstobeapproved.Ofcourse
youwillbetalkedtoaboutnotusingyourhalfoffdaytogetthingsdone.
Ioncegotaningrowntoenail.Prettycommonformissionaries.Walkingalldayindress
shoeswilldothat.Hadtobe"missionapproved".Doctorwasluckilyamember,and
mostlikelygivingthechurchadiscount.AnywaysthedochadconnectionsandIdidn't
havetowaitforafollowupforaprocedure.
Werodeourbikeshome.Yes,that'sright,afterafootprocedurebikedhomewithafull
bandageonmyfoot.Foolishright?Well,Iwasyoungandnaive,ofcoursenoone
offeredtohelp.Isureashelldidn'thaveenoughmoneytotakeabus.Ourallowance
was$120amonthintheearly2000's.
Iwassupposetorestforaweek,butIstartedworkingwithinadayortwo.Yourare
specificallytaughtthatifyouwantbaptisms/conversionsyouneedtobefaithful,
obedientandworkhard.Jesuscantblessyouwithbaptismsifyoudon'twork.Peoples
salvationareonyourhands.That'sahugeresponsibilityforayoungperson.
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Also,alittleofftopic.Ialsogotintoacaraccidentwhileonthemission.Wewere
specificallytrainedtoremoveournametagsaftercaraccidents.Wedidn'twantpeople
totakeadvantageofthesituationandthinkthechurchhadmoneyandtakethemto
court.
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[] GeneticsGuy 1point40minutesago

Ifthisistrue,thisisprettynegligent.AsaformerMormonmissionary,thisisreally
weirdthough.Ifweneededmedicalattentionweneverneededtoseekpermission,we
wentandgotit.Usuallythismeantcallingandinformingthemweneededmedical
attentiononthewayorafterthefact,butweneverhadtocallandgetpermission.
I'dalsoliketopointoutthatitisrequiredtotakecareofanyseriousdentalworkbefore
youcanevengetapprovedforamission.Thismeansyouneedadentistthatclearsyou
andsaysyouwillnotneedanyDentalworkwhileyouareonyourmission.Thus,many
peopleitisoftenarequirementtogetwisdomteethremovedbeforeamission.Ifthere
wereanymoreseriousdentalissuesthatrequiredhertogetmuchneededdental
surgery,thiswouldhavebeenfairlyeasytosee.Iamseriousaboutthisthough,the
churchwillnotapproveyoutogoonamissionwithabillofdentalhealthwith
documentationfromadentistthatyouDONOTNEEDandwillnotneedanyanytimein
thenextcoupleofyears.So,thisstorykindofraisesaweirdredflagforme...CanOP
explainhowshewasapprovedtogo?
Also,whywouldyouneedtoaskthemissionpresident'swifeforpermissiontoseea
doctor?Thatisjustweird...Attheendoftheday,youlistentothemissionpresident
andonlythemissionpresident,notthemissionpresident'swife,assheisnotthe
missionpresident.Oftenshe'llchatandtalkandgiveadviceandshareherpersonal
feelingsandtestimony,butshemakeszerodecisionsregardingwhattodowithinthe
mission.Thisisjusthowitislaidout.ThatiswhyIfinditreallyweirdthatshewould
becallingthemissionpresident'swife.IsupposeitCOULDbesomethingweirdlikethe
missionpresidentthoughthewasbeingnicebylettingthefemalemissionarieschat
withhiswifeinplaceofhimforotherissues?Idon'tknow...
Also,thisstoryseemskindofsketchythateventhoughshemayhaveseemedtohave
beendoingbetter,shewasn'tandthehospitalreleasedher.Really?Sincewhendo
hospitalsofferadischargebeforecheckingelevatedwhitebloodcelllevelsandother
screensandwhentheyseethembeingtoohigh,whichtheywouldhavehere,they
wouldnothavereleasedher?
Look,maybethisstoryistrue,andifitIStrue,absolutelyyoushouldtakelegalaction,
andthisiscomingfromaMormonformermissionary.But,Iamalsosayingthatasa
formermissionary,thereseemstobealotofweirdthingsaboutthisstorythatdon't
makealotofsense.CanOPlinkanarticlementioningthemissionariesdeath?InSalt
LakeCity,theofficialchurchnewspublishesanyandalldeathsthatoccurfrompeople
whilstservingontheirmissions.I'dassumeyoucouldfindlocalnewsarticlestoo.But,I
amstrugglingtofindanynewsatallaboutanymissionarydeathsrelatingtothisgirl.
ThereWASasistermissionarykilledrecently,in2015,justearlyMarchthatdiedofan
E.ColiinfectioninArgentina.But,nothingaboutthisgirl...Icheckedback3yearsof
Missionarydeathrecords,andevensearchedlocalnewsinOregonwherethis
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supposedlyhappened,butIcan'tfindanything.
Iamkeepinganopenmind,soifOPcanlinksomethingvalidatingthisthenIwill
believeit,butIcan'tfindanything...
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] questionr 93points5hoursago

WehadanElderalmostgoblindinoneeyebecausethemissionofficewouldn'tlethimgo
toacitytoseeaspecialist.Fordayshewasinagonizingpainwhilethemissionnurse
reassuredusthattheeyedropssherecommendedwouldwork.Finally,westuckhimona
busandcalledthemissionofficeandjustsaid,"He'scoming.Findarealdoctor."Theydid
findadoctor,anditwasagoodthing.Theeyedropsthemissionnursewere
recommendingwereactuallymakingthemissionary'seyesworse,andhewouldhavegone
blindinoneeyeifwehadn'tdisobeyedthemissionrules.
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[] outofthewoods 40points3hoursago

Lotsofstoriesofmissionariesnotgettingmedicalhelpatsickrms.com
I'mthinkingofwritingupmyownstorytoputonthereaswell.
Sadtothinkthatmissionariesareactuallydyingsothechurchcansaveabitodd
money.
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[] TomLambe 1point1hourago

Sadbutnotsurprising.
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[] ReasonIsMyReligion 1point1hourago

Theeyedropswereprobablyessentialoils.
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[] ohokyeah Fearfindsanexcusewhiletruthfindsaway. 131points5hoursago

IamnotalawyerbutIwonderifyouhavegroundsforacivilnegligencesuit.
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[] ReturnAndReport 35points3hoursago

Idon'tknow.I'mnotalegalscholarmyself,butshewasanadultandwasn'tunder
significantduressnottogotoadoctor.Shejusttooksomeone'scounselnotto.Not
surethere'sagreatcasehere.
Edit:Fortherecord,Ithinkit'sfuckedupbeyondcomprehensionthattheytoldhernot
togotoadoctor.ButI'mjustsayinginnotsurethere'sacasefornegligence.They
aren'therguardians.
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[] zqwefty 26points3hoursago

Eh,Iwouldarguethat20yearsofindoctrinationandbrainwashingconstitutes
duress.
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[] ReasonIsMyReligion 3points1hourago

Goodluckprovingthatincourtthough.That'sallthatmattersfromalegal
standpoint.
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[] Snarfthedstroyer 4points2hoursago

Nothardly.Voluntarilystayinginandadheringtotherulesofareligionisinno
wayanythingthatgetscloseto"duress."Ifthisstoryistrueandaccurate,it
comesdowntooneadult,whowasfreetogotoadoctororleavealtogetherat
anytimeshewantedwithnothreatatalloverherchoosingtofollowtherules
shevolunteeredtooperateunder.It'stoobadshedied,but"thepresident'swife
killedmysister"isbeyondhyperbole.OP'ssisterchosetoignorehermedical
problemuntilitwastoolate.That'snoone'sfaultbutherown.Sorryifthat's
cold.
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[] zqwefty 3points1hourago

Idon'tthinkitwouldholdupincourt,butwhenyou'relivinginthat
situationitfeelsasthoughyouareunderduress,especiallyifshehadnever
questionedherfaithinthepast.
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[] taco_roco 1point1hourago

Iguessthemostimportantthingthenistoinvestigatethepolicies
themselves.
Ifthepeoplewho'employ'you(isthattheproperwaytowordit?)require
youtoseekpermissionbeforeactuallygettinghelp,andthesearethepeople
whocoveryourhealthinsuranceinthefirstplace,theremightbesomething
there.
Andontheothersideofthat,ifshehadgonewithouttheirpermission,
wouldtheyhaverefusedtosupportsinceshe'broketherules'?
FromaallegedlylegaldefinitionIfound
Duressalsoexistswhereapersoniscoercedbythewrongfulconductor
threatofanothertoenterintoacontractundercircumstancesthat
deprivetheindividualofhisorhervolition.
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[] Nick12506 2points1hourago

Voluntarily
Iwouldn'tsaythefirst18yearsoftheindoctrinationwerevoluntary.
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[] lightQuantum 10points2hoursago

I'dsayshecertainlywasundersignificantduressnottogotoadoctor.The
missionaryhandbooktherulesdictatingallofthesemissionaries'actionsonpage
50states:
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"Ifyouneedmedicalcare,callyourmissionpresidentimmediately.Hewillknow
wherethebestmedicalcarecanbeobtained.Visitstoaphysicianorotherhealth
careprofessionalshouldbeauthorizedinadvancebyyourmissionpresidentorhis
representative."
Whenmissionariesaccepttheircallings,it'sprettymuchacontracttofollowthe
rules.
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[] TomLambe 2points1hourago

Soarewethinkingcertaindoctorshavedealswithmissionarypresidents?
"I'llcutyouacheckifyousendallyoursick/injuredmissionariesmyway."
"Okaysure,I'llwriteinthehandbookthattheyhavetoaskmewhichdoctorto
see."
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 2points1hourago

TheyusuallytrytogetanLDSdoctortoperformtheserviceatadiscount(or
forfree).Isawthisnumeroustimesonmymission.Oneofmycompanions
wasgivenfreedentalcarebyamormondentist.Isawamormon
chiropractorwhodidn'tcharge.Itappearsasthoughtheytrytodothisin
ordertolowertheexpendituresoutoftheirownpockets.
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[] AngryPurpleTeddyBear 3points2hoursago

Lawyerherewoulddependonwherethisalltookplace.Therearedefinitelysome
stateswithlegalprecedentmorefriendlytowardsthechurchininstanceslikethis,
andothersthatgiveafairamountofweighttothereligiousauthorityexerted.
BasedonwhatIknowoflawyersandplaintiffswhohavegoneupagainstthe
Mormonchurch,they'llfightyoutoothandnail,andthey'vegotwaymoreresources
thananyindividualfamily.IfOP'sfamilybroughtasuit,Ibetthechurchcould
comeupwithaprettysignificantargumentthatthemajorityofthefaultlaywith
OP'ssisterfornotchoosingtojustexerciseherfreewillandgotothedoctor.The
churchwillthenlowballasettlementofferwithanNDAandthenburyOP'sfamilyin
legalfeesuntilslightlyraisingthesettlementoffersothatOP'sfamilyfeelslikeit'sa
relieftojustbedonewiththewholeaffair.OP'sfamilywillwalkawayfromyearsof
emotionalstrifewitharelativepittance,andit'llbeabigquestionmarkasto
whetherit'llactuallyhavebeenworthit.
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[] IamGrimReefer 1point1hourago

theirbesthopeisprobablyanoutofcourtsettlement.
don'tforgethermothertoldhernottoseethedoctor,soshecouldbecomeaco
defendant.situationisfucked.
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[] taco_roco 1point1hourago

JustrepostingthisherebutIdidfindadefinitionthatmaysupportdurress
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Duressalsoexistswhereapersoniscoercedbythewrongfulconductorthreatof
anothertoenterintoacontractundercircumstancesthatdeprivetheindividual
ofhisorhervolition.
SoIguessitdependsonhowcontractisdefinedandhowtheconsequenceof
breakingtherule/policyareseenbytheCourt.
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[] memecompoop 2points1hourago

I'dsaytheyhaveasuitagainstthedoctor/hospitalaswell.Youdon'treleaseaseptic
patientaftertwodays.
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[] Ah_Q 2points1hourago

Lawyerhere.Thisneedstobealawsuit.
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[] laughingeconomist 59points2hoursago*

Edit:Ican'tverifyallofOP'sstory,butatleastthebasicdetailsappeartobecorrect.
1)Themissionisdifferent.
2)Sistermissionarydiddielastsummeraftercomplicationsofthesamesurgery,itwas
kepthushhushandotherthanafewmentionsonmissionaryblogs,therearenomore
details.
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[] filologo 8points2hoursago

Yeah,youareright.Weshouldbeabitskepticaluntilwehavemoreproof.
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[] Aftunnels 12points2hoursago*

Iftrue,thesituationasdescribedbyOPisreallyawfulandtheyhavemycondolences.
Havingsaidthat,Idoagreewithyou.Weneedtotreadlightlyuntilthisisverifiedto
somedegree.
Edit:Lookslikeitmayhavebeenverifiedtosomedegree.Themissionisn'tinPortland,
butisnearby.Reallysad.
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[] QuickSpore Cry'Havoc!',andletslipthecurelomsofwar 9points2hoursago

Agreed.
Manyofushereareawareofthepolicy.Manyofushavesufferedduetothispolicy.But
justbecausethestoryisplausible,doesn'tmeanitactuallyhappened.
IfrealIhavenothingbutsympathyfortheOP.ButIdohavedoubtsaboutwhether
thisactuallyhappenedornot.
OPIfyouareunwillingtoprovideanykindofidentifyinginformationtothesubasa
whole,couldIrecommendcontactingtheModsoratrustedpowerposterlike
/u/Mythrinandprovidingthistothem?
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[] CasinoDandy 'sswordofflamingsteal 6points1hourago*


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ThoughtIwouldpostthetextfromtheblogincaseforsomereasonitgottaken
down
ThereisNoSuchThingastheEnd
ItissohardtoexpressthewayIfeelatthismoment.Acoupleofdaysagowe
receivednewsthataSisterinourmissionwasinthehospitalbecauseofaninfection
fromarootcanal.Shehadneverbeenmycompanionbutwehadmetandbecome
goodfriends.Thenextdaywehadaspecializedsistertrainingandshewas
supposedtobedischargedfromthehospitalandpossiblymakeittopartofthe
meeting.HoweveratlunchtimewereceivedthenewsthatthisdearSisterwasno
longerwithusandshehadpasson.
...Ididn'tbelieveitasfirst,Ithoughtsomeonewasplayingajoke.Slowlyyetsurely
therealitystruck.Mydearfriend,SisterXXXXXXXhasmovedon.Thenextcouple
ofhourswereablur,betweentears,hugs,singingandtestimoniesthespiritwasso
strong,comfortingandsupportingmeinthishourofneed.Goddoesnotdo
random.InthosefewhoursspentamongtheotherSisters,IcouldfeelmySaviors
armsaroundmeasIstruggledtocomprehendwhatreallyhadjusthappened.Ialso
learnsomeveryimportantthingsthatIknew,butnowIreallyknow.
"OurHeavenlyFather...knowsthatwelearnandgrowandbecomestrongeraswe
faceandsurvivethetrailsthroughwhichwemustpass."PresidentMonson
ThenewswereceivedyesterdayhastobeoneofthebiggesttrialIhavefacedout
hereonmymission.Myeyeshavebeenopenedtotherealityoflife,andalsotheto
enablingpowerofChristatonement.BecauseofHim,thereisnosuchthingasthe
end.Ourlovedonesmayhavepassedon,butthisisnotthelasttimethatwewill
seethem.Christbrokethebandsofdeathandwewilloneagainbereunitedwith
thosethatweloveandmiss.Alsoweareneveralone.Christhaspromisedus,"Iwill
notfailthee,norforsakethee"andIknowthatHestandsbyHispromises.
Christnotonlysufferedforoursins,butHealsosufferedforourinfirmities.Orour
pains,oursorrows,ourhurt,whateveritisthatwehavefelt,arefeeling,orwill
eventuallyfeel.Hehasbeenthroughitbefore.HecanholdusinHisarmsand
comfortusinthesetimesofneed.IknowthisistruebecauseIhavefeltit.
YesterdaywhenIneededHim,Hewasthere.Throughtheactionsofsomany
differentSistersIwascomfortedandstrengthened.
"Andhewilltakeuponhimdeath,thathemayloosethebandsofdeathwhichbind
hispeopleandhewilltakeuponhimtheirinfirmities,thathisbowelsmaybefilled
withmercy,accordingtothefleshhowtosuccorhispeopleaccordingtotheir
infirmities."Alma7:12
Christlives!IknowthatHelivesandthatHeisthereforeachandeveryoneofus.I
feltHislovingembraceyesterdaymultipletimes.Ourtimesissoshorthereonthis
earth.Soremember"Bealittlekinder,holdyourlovedonesalittlecloser,tellthem
youlovethemmoreoften,donottakeforgrantedthetimeyouhave,remember
contentionisuseless,committodoallyoucantodaytofollowJesusChrist"because
weneverknowhowmuchtimewereallyhave.
WithLove,
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SisterXXXXXX
PostedbyXXXXXXXXat4:42PMWednesday,May28,2014Nocomments:
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago

It'sprobablyagoodideatopostthetextbecausetheblogmaycrashwithall
thistraffic,butIthinkitwouldbekindertoredactthenames.OPprobablyhad
herreasonsfornotprovidingthespecificlocationandobituarylinketc(ifitwere
me,thosereasonswouldincludenotwantingtohavemynameoutedonreddit
whileIwassimplyaskingforadviceonalegalquestion).
Respectfully,Ithinkyoushouldconsiderredactingthenamesuntilsuchtimeas
OPdecidestodeclarehersister'sname.
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[] CasinoDandy 'sswordofflamingsteal 2points35minutesago

HiThere
Itakeyourpointandhavemodifiedmycommentaccordingly.
Itseemsthepostitselfhasbeendeleted,butIhavestillmadethechanges
sothatanyoneinmycommenthistorywon'tseeit,howeverunlikely.
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 1point24minutesago

Thanks,Iappreciateyourvalidationofmyopinionverymuch.:)
Unfortunatelythewholethingseemstohavespunoutofcontrol,
probablywaybeyondwhatOPwasexpecting.Shedeletedhertwitter
accountandIsuspectshe'lltakeastepbackfromsocialmediaingeneral
becauseit'sprettyeasytofindher.
Ireallyhopeshe'sokay.Thistragiceventwasbadenough,butto
accidentallydoxxyourselfonlinebyprovidingsearchableinformation
beforeyou'reready...well...Ireallyhopeshefeelssafeconfidinginher
familytogetthroughthis,andthenhopefullyalawsuitwillbringsome
closureforallofthem.
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givegold

[] jurroot BYUIdo 4points2hoursago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] laughingeconomist 3points2hoursago*

Iagreecompletely,andifOPprovidestheverificationtothemodsthenIwouldbe
morethanhappytoremoveallofmycommentsonthisthread.
Edit:Verificationwasfound.
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givegold

[] tyler611 4points2hoursago

Ihaveaclosefriendservingtherenow.Iwillaskherifsomeonediedrecently.
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[] laughingeconomist 3points2hoursago

Someonealreadyprovidedmewithsomeevidenceithappenedinadifferent
missionthantheonethatOPstated,butitappearstohavehappened.
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[] tyler611 2points2hoursago

Goodtoknow!Thankyou.
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[] too_much_to_do

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3points2hoursago

Thisdefinitelyneedstobehigher.Tragedyiftruebutlet'snotputthecartbeforethe
horse.
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[] SammyJankins 2points2hoursago

Cananydetailsbesharedonhowitwasverified?
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[] laughingeconomist 6points1hourago

Yes.Someonesentmelinkstomultiplemissionblogsthatmentionedthedeathofa
sistermissionaryasaresultofcomplicationsofmouthsurgeries.Theobituaries
wereveryvagueandtherewerenonewsstoriesaboutit.
Sotheverificationisthatasistermissionarydiddieanditappearstohavebeen
kepthushhush.Itisplausiblethattherestdidhappen,butthereisnoverification
onthat.
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[] SammyJankins 3points1hourago

Thankyou.It'soddbecauseusuallymissionarydeathsgeneratenewsarticles.
Thefactthatthisonedidnot,stinkstohighheavenIMO.
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[] Fishing_Idaho Sundaysareforfishing 1point1hourago*

Ijuststumbledonthosesamelinks.There'salsoathreadonRFMfromlast
Octoberdiscussingthatwoman'sdeathfromoralsurgery.
Edit:Thetimelinewouldfittoo.
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[] drpeterfoster 2points2hoursago

Everybodylovestohate.Thereisnoproofofthisstory,andfactsdon'taddup.Dying
twodaysafterreleasefromahospitalafterIVantibiotictreatmentsoundsvery
suspicious...Shesurelywouldhavebeenonprescriptionantibioticsforatleastaweek
followingrelease,sorelapsingintosepsiswouldbeveryunlikely.
OPneedstoverify.
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[] laughingeconomist 7points1hourago

Thereareseveralmissionblogsthatmentionasistermissionarydyingafter
complicationsfromoralsurgery.Theobituariesforthatmissionaryarevague,asare
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themissionblogs,andtherewasapparentlynomediacoverage.Membersinthe
areawhereithappenedheardrumors,butnothingconcrete.
Myconclusionisthatthebasisofthestoryiscorrect,butthedetailsmightnotbe.
Butcouldbetrue.IfyouwouldlikelinkstothemissionblogsPMme.
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[] KodosKang1996 1points2hoursago

OPseemstoindicatethatitis'worldwideprotocol'togothroughthemission
president'swifeforthesemedicalclearances.Thisissimplynotthecase.
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 3points1hourago

Thenextsentenceaftertheportionyou'requotingfromis,"Youaren'tsupposedto
seekmedicalhelpwithoutpermissionfromyourmissionpresident."
She'snotsayingthatgoingtothemissionpresident'swifeisprotocol,she'ssaying
thatyouhavetogothroughthepresidencytogetpermission.Andmaybeshe
generalizedwhenshesaid"worldwide",butshe'snotwrongtoimplythat
missionarieshavetogothroughtheirleadersbeforeseekingmedicaltreatment.
I'veseenthesamethingmentioneddozensoftimesonr/exmormonandmybf
experiencedaverysimilartraumawithdelayedtreatmentsandaccusationsof
hypochondriaforasevereillnesswhileonhismission.
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[] KodosKang1996 1point1hourago

Yes,gettingmedicalclearanceisaworldwideprotocol.Ijustwantedtoclarify
thatit'snotarequirementtoinvolvethemissionpresident'swife.
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago

Ok.
Ifshehadputacolonbetween"Thisisworldwideprotocol"and"Youaren't
supposedtoseekmedicalhelpwithoutpermissionfromyourmission
president.",itwouldhavebeenclearerthesentenceprecedingwasjust
partoftellingwhathappened,ratherthanbeingtiedtotheprotocolremark.
We'reallonthesamepagenow.
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] YoungModern 83points4hoursago

PleasetrytocontactPeggyFletcherStackaboutthis.Shecouldbringmediaattentionthat
shamesthechurchintosettling.
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[] ARthUrpHilIpdenu It'snotasecretcombination,it'sasacredcombination. 32points3hoursago

Iemailedheralinktothispost.Othersdoingsowouldn'thurt.
pstack@sltrib.com
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https://twitter.com/religiongal
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[] Fast4ElizabethSmart 2points2hoursago

Ithoughtyoumeant"emailPeggySTACK!!"(Like"rightnow")
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[] Jesin00 6points1hourago

That's"stat".
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[] YoungModern 2points1hourago

Bekind.Idon'tknowifyoudownvoted,butI'dliketoletpeopleknowthat
there'snocausefordownvotes,onlygentlecorrection.
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] 4blockhead [M]54points2hoursago*

Moderator'sstatement:Weassumegoodfaithposting,andhavenoreasontodoubtthe
veracityoftheOP.However,thesubreddithasnoindependentmeansoffactchecking
thesestatements.Thebasicfactsofwhereandwhenarelefttoothers,includingmedia
resourceswithfactcheckingabilities.TheOPhasaskedwhethertopursuethisasalegal
matterandhasreceivedinputonbothsides.Please,donotaddadditionalcontextbeyond
whattheOPhasprovidedwithoutprovidingproof,orcontactingthemodsfirst.
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 11points2hoursago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] 4blockhead [M]7points1hourago

IthinkthisweighstowardsbelievingtheOP.Again,wegivepeoplethebenefitof
thedoubt.Thecommunityexpressedskepticism,andthisdoesn'tprovideironclad
proof.However,Ithinkthisinformationshouldstand.Itisapublicblogpostthat
showsthatsistermissionariesdopassawayontheirmissions,andsometimes,it
maygorelativelyunnoticedbythemedia.Again,themoderatorteamisnot
weighingincertifyingthatthisistheexactcase,etc.
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 0points2hoursago

canyoupostthistothetop?Everyoneisoverreactingtoaunverifiedstory.
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[] 4blockhead 2points2hoursago

NotthatIknowof.
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[] FearlessFixxer EvilApostate/RegularDude...dependsonwhoyouask 68points5hoursago

Iamtearingupreadingaboutthis.
Absolutlyunacceptable!
Thechurchhasaresponsibilitytomakesuremissionariesgetmedical.
IfIamyou,Isuetheirassesoff.
Haveyouspokentoalawyer?
Btw.Wasthereanymediacoverageofyoursister'sdeath?
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[] jdovew nulliusinverba 45points5hoursago

Irememberreadingaboutyoursister,buthearingyourexperiencejustfurtheremphasizes
howbrokenthesystemis.
Youshouldabsolutelysue.
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[] SammyJankins 22points4hoursago

Wheredidyoureadaboutit?Ican'tseemtotrackdownanewsarticleaboutit.
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[] jdovew nulliusinverba 18points4hoursago

SomeoneherelinkedastoryaboutasistermissionaryinPortlanddyingonher
mission.Iassumeitisthesameperson,butImaybewrong.
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[] SammyJankins 5points3hoursago

Doyoumean'here'asin/r/exmormon?Canyoutellmeatimeframeorany
keywordstohelprefinemysearch?Isearchedtheaubreddit,butIhaven't
foundityet.
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[] jdovew nulliusinverba 5points3hoursago

Yeah,IthoughtIreadithereonthesub,butIcan'tfindanythingeither.
Hmmmm,maybeIreaditsomewhereelseandamrememberingwrong.
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[] danish_lamanite MoreJewishDNAthantheNativeAmericans! 41points5hoursago

IANAL:Sue!Iamsosorry,butthisisgrossnegligenceandthereisnoexcuseforit.
Hopefully,thisleadstochurchwidechangesinmedicalcareproceduresforfulltimeyoung
missionaries.Ididfinances(e.g.payingmedicalbills)inthemissionofficeforeightmonths
andsawsomehypochondriacmissionariestrytogamethesystemtogetoutofdoing
miserablework.ButIsawjustasmanymissionarieswithrealhealthproblemsincludinga
fewthathadgonefartoolongbeforegettingtreatment.MyMPandhiswifewerepretty
reasonable,butIcouldseehowitcouldbecomeyetanotherleadershiproulettegamewith
devastatingconsequences.
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[] curious_mormon Truthneverlostgroundbyenquiry. 10points3hoursago

Wehada90yearolddoctor/formerstakepatriarchwhowouldcurecancerspotswith
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ablowtorchandotheroldschoolmedicine.OurMP'swifewasamazingthough.Shewas
furious,andthingschangedalmostimmediatelyonceshefoundout.
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[] Zelph_ 35points3hoursago

Iamanattorney,butIamnotlicensedinOregon.Inmoststates,boththeparentsand
thesiblingsareabletosueforwrongfuldeathifthepersonwasnotmarried.Youneedtoat
leastconsultwithanattorneywhoislicensedinOregon.PleasePMmeifyouneeda
referraltoagoodattorneyandIwillfindyousomeonewhowillspeakwithyou
forfree.
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[] RdawgTheProgrammer YoungApostate 2points1hourago

Whyisthisnothigherup?
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[] dsngltn 14points3hoursago

TheSickRM'swebsite,justtoshowthatthisisnotanisolatedincident,butadeliberate
LDSChurchpolicy.
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[] greeken0612 PornShoulders 5points3hoursago

Readingthesestoriesisabsolutelydisgusting.Howthehelldoesanyonestillhavetheir
"faith"afterbeingtreatedlikethatfrommissionpresidents,companionsandfamily?
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[] Wantmytithingback

givegold
24points4hoursago

Thisneedstoreceivemediaattention.Pleasegopublicwiththis.
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[] Moruitelda 12points1hourago

I'macivildefenselawyerandthinkthatalotofinappropriatelawsuitsarefiledbypeople
tryingtomakeabuck.
Thisone'snot.Contactalawyer.Ifthelawyerthinksyouhaveacase,sue.Thiswas
incrediblyirresponsibleandthereshouldbeconsequences.
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[] ladayen 2points1hourago

Idontunderstandonwhatgroundsyouwouldfilealawsuitthough.Theydidn't
physicallyrestrainherandeventuallybroughtherinthemselves.Shecouldhavegone
toadoctoratanypointbutchoosenotto.
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[] Moruitelda 2points1hourago

Physicalrestraintisn'tanelementofwrongfuldeath.Butthelawmayvarybystate,
whichiswhytheyshouldseealocallawyer.
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[] cloistered_around

parent

givegold

21points4hoursago

Shewasunderextremepressurenottoseeadoctordespitewhatshewanted,whatmostof
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herfamilywanted,andwhathermedicalprofessionalswanted.Onemightevensayshewas
coercednottoseemedicalhelp.
Ican'tsaywhatyoushoulddo,OP,butI'msoverysorryyou'velostasisterthisway.=(
Condolencesforyourfamily'sloss.
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[] Latin_Lover 32points5hoursago

Presscharges,doitforyoursister!Theydidn'tevenfeelbadaboutwhattheydidtoyour
sister!Howmanymoremissionary'swilltheykill.Startafundraiserifyouneedmoney,i
willgladlydonate!
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[] TotesMessenger 20points3hoursago*

Thisthreadhasbeenlinkedtofromanotherplaceonreddit.
[/r/atheism]ThedarkersideofMormonism:/u/sadieswalltellsaheartbreakingstory
ofhowhersister,asaMormonmissionary,wasdeniedpermissionfromherleadersto
obtainmedicalattention,whichultimatelyleadtoherdeath.
[/r/bestof]ThedarkersideofMormonism:/u/sadieswalltellsaheartbreakingstoryof
howhersister,asaMormonmissionary,wasdeniedpermissionfromherleadersto
obtainmedicalattention,whichultimatelyleadtoherdeath.
[/r/undeleteshadow][#19]MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident's
WifeinPortland[exmormon]379comments
Ifyoufollowanyoftheabovelinks,respecttherulesofredditanddon'tvote.(Info/Contact)
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[] UtahLegal Iwillgodown 20points4hoursago

Definitelyalawsuit.IfyoumessagemeIcanreferyoutoagoodExMoattorneyinSaltLake
whocanhandlethatlawsuit.TheproblemisthatiftheyareTBMyourfamilymaynot
supportthatandtheywouldneedtobetheonesfilingit.
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[] The_Accountemist 19points5hoursago

Howterrible!!Iagreewithyou,legalactionshouldbemade.I'veheard,though,whenlegal
actionisbroughtagainstthechurch,higherupsaskyourbishopandstakepresidentto
pesteryoutoreconsider.Itallmakesitahugedilemma.
I'msorrytohearaboutyourloss.Ihopeyourmothercanseehowwrongthemission
systemis,evenlethal.
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[] sinistriel

givegold
20points5hoursago

Thiskillsmetoreadthis.IfinallygotthehelpIneededformyailmentbutthesimilarities
inthisaremakingmenauseous.MyMPandhiswifetoldmemyconditionwasbecauseI
wassinningandittookawhiletogetthehelpIneeded.I'msosorryforyourloss.
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[] superluminal LOUDLAUGHTER 15points4hoursago

MyMPandhiswifetoldmemyconditionwasbecauseIwassinning
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Holy.Shit.
Oneoftheworstthingsishowfreakingbelievableitis.I'mgladyoufinallygotthehelp
youneeded.
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[] sinistriel

4points2hoursago

Wasn'teasy.Ihadtogetmyparentsandstakepresidentfromhometogettheball
rolling.
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[] MissionPrez 19points5hoursago

Ohmygosh.Somethingreallyshouldbedoneaboutthis.Thereshouldbeconsequences,
evenifitisjustpublicshaming.
Ontheotherhand,Irespectyourrighttochoosehowtohandleeverything.Themost
importantthingisyourfamilydowhatisrightforthem.
Edit:youcanstillsueevenifyourmomdoesn'twantto.Justdon'twaittoolatestatuteof
limitations.
Iwouldtalktoalawyer.They'lldoitforfree,andyoudon'thavetotellyourmom.Justask
thelawyerwhatyouroptionsare.
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[] whitethunder9 Thelion,thetiger,thebear(ohmy) 19points5hoursago*

Sorrytohearaboutyoursister.Ifyougetthemediainvolvedandagoodlawfirm,they
willpayup.Guaranteed.Theirimageistheirgodandtheywillnotletyoutarnishitone
wayoranother,evenifitinvolvesgivingyoualargesettlement.
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[] valadil 9points3hoursago

Maybeit'sgodswillthatyousuetheshitoutofthem.
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[] spacepenguin11 8points2hoursago

Upvoted,butthisisgoingtoneedsomesortofverification.
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 6points2hoursago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] RichardGANGSTAScot RideorDie 15points4hoursago

Removethispostandcontactanattorneytoday.
Thisisawrongfuldeathcase,especiallyifyouhaveemailstobackitup.Thechurchwill
settle.Theydon'twantthebadpress.
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[] Jake451 22points4hoursago*

Theonlythingthatmakesthisfuckingcultactwithdecencyisthethreatofpublic
shaming.Thisneedstobeexplodedintothemainstreammediafocusingonhowaculture
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ofextremeobedienceforMormonmissionariesresultsinhorrorsofthiskind.Ifitwereme,
IwouldsuenotonlythechurchbuttheMPandhiswifepersonally.Thesemonstersare
unworthyofthepowertheyholdoverimpressionableyoungpeople.NOBODYshouldhave
therighttoprohibitsomeoneelsefromseeingadoctor.
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[] lejefferson 13points4hoursago

Youneedtoinformthemediaofthisstory.Peopleshouldknowwhathappenstothe
supposedlywatchedoverbyGodmissionaries.Ihavesufferedlifelongmedicalissuesfrom
whatIwentthroughonmymission.Don'tgothroughthisalone.Letyoursistersdeathnot
beinvain.Thiscouldhelpsavethelivesofcountlessothermissionarieswhohaveabored
Utahhousewifeinlieuofamedicaldoctor.
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[] [deleted]4hoursago

[deleted]
[] 4blockhead [M]3points3hoursago

Iamremovingthisatthispoint,becauseofnonconfirmationfromtheOP.
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[] AviusQuovis CTRConfuseTheRighteous 6points3hoursago

I'msosorry.Youmightgetamoresolidlegalevaluationbypostingto/r/legaladvice.you
mighthavetoexplainmoreofthechurchspecificorganizationaloddities,buttheygive
legitadvice.Makesuretoincludetheapplicablestatesinyourposttitle.
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[] sheepboy 7points3hoursago*

Thisisterrible.Addingmypersonalstory:Onmymission(Australia19981999)Icrashed
mybikeandbangedupmykneewhichIthoughtwasjustsurfaceabrasionsandthatI
couldwalkitoff.Afewhourslatermykneehaddoubledinsizesospentthefollowing34
hourstryingtocallthemissionhomebutcouldn'tgetthrough.Thenextmorningtried
againandgotananswer(turnsouttheyhadthephoneofthehookforameetingand
forgottoputitbackon)andwastoldjusttotakepainkillersandwaititout.Spentthenext
twoweeksinbedonlygettingouttostruggletowalktothetoilet.Aftertwoweeksanother
nearbymissionarywhohadanestablishedmedicalconditionwasgoingforacheckupata
privatehospitalsotheMPswifesaidIshouldgowithhimandhaveamykneelookedat.
Thedoctortooklessthanaminutetosayheneededtoadmitme.Triedcallingthemission
homeforthenexthourtogetapprovalandthedoctordecidedhewouldhavetotransfer
metoapublichospitalwhichdidn'trequireinsuranceapprovalsoIcouldgettheurgent
treatmentIneeded.Hadanoperationandspentthenextweekinhospitalandamonth
stayingwithalocalmember.WassupposedtohaveregularcheckupsandrehabwhichMPs
wifesaidnottoworryaboutandthedoctortoldmenottoridemybikeforafewmonthsso
thoughttheywouldputmeinanareawithacarbutMPswifesaidIwouldjusthaveto
walkeverywhere.Twomonthsaftertheoperationmykneewasstillinflamedandfinallygot
permissiontoseethedoctoragainandIgotaroundofantibioticswhichfinallykilledthe
infection.Tothisdaymykneeisnot100%andrandomlygivesmepainbutIguessIcan
atleastbethankfulIgotoutalive.
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Iwasverydisappointedwithmytreatment17yearsagobutthoughtIwasjustunlucky
withthephonecallsbuttohearthisiscommonandhasleadtodeathjustmakesmesick.
TheLDSchurchisdisgustingandthewholeworldshouldknow.
Edit:Iwouldalsohappilydonatetoalegalfundifitcomestothat.
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[] ktall JustsittinghereidolizingtheTruth 6points4hoursago

Ican'tbelievetheydidn'tapologize.Takethistothepress!
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[] TommyMonsoon SwipeRight.Match.#TinderMercies. 5points3hoursago

I'msosorry.Sosorry.I'msureyouwillmaketherightdecision.
Mybrotheralsodiedonhismission(thoughnotundersimilarcircumstances)soIknow
someaboutthespecificpainoflosingasiblingthatway.PleasePMmeifyoueverwantto
talk.
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[] MommaJo 6points3hoursago

IhatethewordsGod'swill.Pissesmeoffnoend.
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[] jackmormon4023 5points3hoursago

Iamsosorry.Thechurchshouldbesuedsothesystemchanges.Bygoingafterthemyou
maysavesomeoneslife.
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[] megustamucho26 5points3hoursago

Presschargesorstufflikethiswillcontinuetohappen.OnmymissionIhad
amoebas...whatwasItoldtodo?DrinkPeptobismol.Nothinghappened.Calledthemission
nursesandtheyweren'tworriedaboutitatall,justsaidtocontinuethePepto.Alocal
memberliedandgotmeintoafreeclinicwheretheytestedme,toldmeitwasamoebas
andwhatmedicinetotake.AsmallandinsignificantexampleIknowbutTSCCdoesn't
wanttospendtonsofmoneytakingcareoftheirownmissionariesoutthere,whichI
believeisshameful.Thisstoryisawfulandmycondolencestoyouandyourfamily.
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[] IchiroKertzec

1point2hoursago

ThisiswhatIfeelaswell.Peopleshouldneverignoredoctor'sadviceforanyreason,let
alonebeforcedorreligiouslyobligatedto.Regardlessofhowonefeelsaboutthechurch,
thisisapolicythatmustchangeotherwisetherewillbemoredeathslikethis.Noone
deservesthat.Noone.
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[] HircinesHandmaiden 6points1hourago

YourMOTHER...thinksitisGOD'SWILLherOWNDAUGHTERdiedfromaPREVENTABLE
MEDICALCONDITIONwhoseTREATMENTwasdeniedtoher.Thatisliterallythefarthest
thingfromGod'sWill!
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[] vyrtus

12points5hoursago

That'ssoterrible.I'msosorryforyourloss.Youshoulddefinitelysuethem.Talktoa
lawyer.Negligence.
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[] newnamemiriam 11points4hoursago

ContacttheOregonian:http://www.oregonianmediagroup.com/contact/contactnewsteam/
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[] sluttygrizzlybear 10points4hoursago

Takethisstorytothepress.Privatelyifyouhaveto.Peopleneedtohearthisandmore
importantlyyoursisterdeservesjustice.Iamsosorry.
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[] OneMoreLuckyGuy ThisIsMyNewFlair.com 10points4hoursago

Dude,thisisahorriblestory.Andfuckthechurch'slegalarmy.
Theywereinapositionofauthorityoveryoursister,theydeniedherhealthcaremultiple
times,shediedasaresultofit.Theyneedtobeheldaccountable.
I'msosorrytohearthisstory.Butthanksforbeingwillingtoshareit.
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[] SammyJankins 5points4hoursago

Wereanynewsarticlespublishedaboutit?Howlongagodidthishappen?
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[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] SammyJankins 3points2hoursago

Ithinkwithoutatleastsomecorroboratingevidenceweshouldbeskepticalofthis
story.It'sprobablytoolateforthisthread,perhapsanewpostwouldbeadvisable
tomakepeopleawarethereisreasontodoubtthestory.
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 2points1hourago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago*

Maybe,someonejustsentmeamessageandsaidthattheyheardaboutthis
fromadifferentsource.IftheycanverifythestorythenIwilldeleteallofmy
comments.
Edit:Verificationfound.
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[] JosephsMyth 4points3hoursago

Iwonderhowmanypriesthood"blessings"wereissuedinlieuofmuchneededmedical
intervention.
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[] anditwaslove 4points3hoursago

Ourmomdoesn'twanttopursueanyactionagainstthemissionpresidentbecauseshe
believesthatmaybeitwasGod'swill.
I'msorrybutwow.Howbrainwasheddoesoneneedtobetobelieveyourdaughter'seasily
preventabledeathwas"God'swill"?Sickening.PLEASEtakethisstorytothepress.Makea
bigfussuntilthechurchhavenooptionbuttoansweryourquestionsandchangeprotocol.
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 1point1hourago

Maybeit'ssomekindofcopingmechanism?Shedoesn'twanttobelievetheharsh
realitythatfaultyleaderspreventedherdaughterfromgettingthecaresheneeded?
Becausethenshe'dadmitthattheyweren'tcalledofGod,orthatGodwasn'twatching
overherdaughter,andgoingdownthatrabbitholemightbetoomuchforher.She'd
rathersimplybelieveit'sallpartofsomecelestialplan.Thatfantasysoundssomuch
moreappealingthanwhatactuallyhappened.
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[] timcharper 4points3hoursago

Ialmostkilledmyselfonmymission,Ididn'tseekthemedicalhelpIshouldhaveandwas
sickfor>50%ofit(withpneumonia,bronchitis,etc.).I'vehadmanyissueswithmylungs
sincethen,andwondersometimesiftheystemtonottreatinginfectionsinmylungs.Iam
luckythatIdidn'tdie.Ikeptsaying,"mybodyfeelsdead,butmyspirithasneverbeen
morealive",asifthat'sagoodthing.Worse,Iworkeddoortodoor,nearlyawalking
deadman,becauseIwasshowingmyfaithingod.
HolyshitIwasdelusional.It'sprobablywhyIhavesuchanaversiontoreligionnow,
because(amongstmanyreasons)Ithinkittaughtmetothinkinawaythatnearlykilled
me(and,putothersatrisk).
:(
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[] PresidentNEWSROOM 4points3hoursago

Ihaveissuesrelatedtomyconcussions(two)onmymission.Missionpresidentdidn'twant
metoseeadoctorunlessabsolutelynecessary.Thiswas20002002andIstillsufferthe
effectsfromit(shorttermmemoryproblemsandanger/depression).
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[] Nolongerindoctrinate 4points3hoursago

Thanksforsharing
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[] filologo 4points3hoursago

Ohwow.Iamsosorrythatyouaregoingthroughthis.Fuckthatladyandfuckthis
religion.
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[] ZeroStatic Korihorwasthegoodguy. 5points3hoursago

Likeothershavesaid,presslegalchargesandcontactmedia.Ifnotforyourself,doitfor
futuremissionarieswhomayendupinasimilarpredicament.
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[] mechtech 4points3hoursago

I'mjumpingonthebandwagonatthispoint,butpleasedoeverythinginyourpowerto
ensurethiswon'thappenagainvialegalactionandgettingthisstoryout.
Doitforyoursister,foryourfamily,andforallofthefuturemormonsthatwillfind
themselvesinsimilardanger.
Thewholesystemneedstochange.Havingnontrainedmissionleaderscontrolmedical
policyisdangerousandleadstodeath.
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[] B_Bast 4points2hoursago

Thisiswhyatheismisathing.
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[] MightyTaint 9points4hoursago

shesoughtpermissiontoseeadoctorthroughthemissionpresident'swife.Thisis
worldwideprotocolformissionaries.
Whatthelivingfuck?
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 12points4hoursago

That'sseriouslyhowitis.Ihurtmybackprettybadlyonmymission,andIwasn't
allowedmedicalattentionuntilmymissionpresidentgavemetheOK.Theyusuallytry
tocontactmembersandgetthemtodoitforfree.Ihadonecompanionwhogotfree
dentalcarefromanLDSdoctor,andIsawanLDSchiropractor.ItseemslikeTSCCwill
trytoweaseltheirwayoutofhavingtopayforanythingiftheycan.
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[] MightyTaint 4points4hoursago

Howthiscan'tmakemembersgo"WTF?"isbeyondme.
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 8points4hoursago

Unfortunately,mostmemberswillseethispersonasa"badexample"ofwhata
MissionPresidentshouldNOTdo,andoverlookthedeeperissueofmaking
missionariesasktheirleadersiftheycanseeadoctor.It'sbeyondridiculous.
Eveninbasictraining,(whereyouhavetogetpermissiontotakeashit)the
militarywillnotmakeyouasksomeoneelseformedicalattention,because
healthandsafetycomesfirst!ThisjustgoestoshowhowlittleTSCCcaresabout
itsownsalesmenbymakingtheirrequestsformedicalattentiontobearbitrarily
determinedbysomefuckingcult'slapdog.
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[] thebumm 8points2hoursago

Firstoff,itiswelldocumentedthatIdefendtheLDSchurch(onreddit)fromunduehatred
andbigotry.ThispostisNOTunearnedhate.Thisisaveryrealandverybigproblemin
manylargeorganizations,theLDSchurchbeingjustthat.ItalsoisanissueImyselfhad
withtheMormonchurch(similarcircumstances,differenttragicoutcome).
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NormallyIwouldsaygoafterlegallyspeakingtheMissionPresidentbecauseinall
reality,hedidn'tcheckwithanyone.Hedidn'tcheckwithGodortheprophetoranyone,he
(orhiswifemaybe)justdeniedtherequest.Therequestismeanttobeoutofrespectfor
theprocessandinnowayissupposedtobestonewalled.It'ssupposedtoserveas
notificationratherthanformallyasking.That'sabuseofpoweronMP'sfault.
Normally.Ithinkhewillbeprotectedbythechurchlawyers,soithastobethechurch.You
guyshaveto.Evenifwegivethewholechurchthebenefitofthedoubt(likeImentioned
above,likelyisjustMP)theyhavetobemadeawareofthisguyabusinghispositionand
gethimthehelloutofthere.Theseareyoungpeoplethatarebeing"guided"andifanyof
thatsocalledguidanceisabused,morebadthingswillcontinuetohappen.
TLDRIdefendthechurchattimes,thisisNOToneofthosetimes.Goget'em.Please,
goafterthis.
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[] tksmoothie

givegold
8points4hoursago

Toomuchofthisgoesonwithmissionpresidentswivesplayingdoctor.Iwasfeelinglike
deathinMexicoatthebeginningofmymission.Everytime,'elderTKSmoothie,drinkmore
water'.Iofcoursewassuperobedientandtrustedhercounsel.Witha103tempmy
companionfinallytookmetoanemergencyroominMexicoagainstthepresidentswishes.
ThyphoidFeverfromallthebadwaterIwastoldtodrink!
Betpartwasdroppingmypantsforoneofthegigglysistersinthewardtoadminister
penicillinshotsinmybum:)
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[] Iamstuckathope 8points4hoursago

I'msoterriblysorryaboutthis.First,IwanttosaythattheChurchshouldpaydearlyfor
this.
OfcourseIdon'tmeantogiveanylegaladvicethroughthiscommentandnobodyshould
relyonthiscommentforanything,butthiscasewouldbesimple/straightforward,butnot
easy.Therearealotoffactorsatwork,andIthinkalotwoulddependonthespecificsof
Oregonlawandtheapproachofthejudge/jury.
TheMPswifewasanauthorityfigure,butdoesshehaveaspeciallegaldutyinthiscase?
Didsheindicatepaymentforserviceswouldberefused?Anyexplicitretributionifthe
missionarywenttothedoctor?
Isitreasonableunderthelawtorelyonanuntrainedchurchleaderformedicaladvice?Is
theimplicitthreatofdisciplineenoughtocountascoercion?WastheMPswifegivingclear
orders,orwasshegivingamereopinion?
TheChurch'sbehaviorinthiscaseiscertainlydisgusting,andknowingwhatIknowabout
theChurch,IthinktheChurchdeservestobeslammedforthis,butitwouldbeastrange
casetolitigate.Ifyoucouldsurviveuntiltrial,Iimagineyoucouldgetalotofsympathyfor
theJury,especiallyifyouspelledouttheideathatstrictobedienceisrequiredtobewith
yourfamilyafteryoudie.
MyguessistheChurch'slawyerswouldpushforasettlement.Theycertainlydon'twantto
setaprecedenteitherway.Ifyourfamilywins,itshowstheChurchhasadutytoprovide
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goodmedicaladvicetomissionariesandhasliabilitiesforanyfailure.IftheChurchwins,it
demonstratesthatmissionariesshouldignoretheMPandtakecareofthemselves.
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[] MinsPackage 9points4hoursago

Makebackupsofalldocumentationofcorrespondence,emailsespecially.Doyouhaveher
journal?Whataboutthecorrespondenceorblogpostsorjournalentriesofhermission
companionatthetime.AndI'msorry,butyourmomhaslostit.God'swill?Fuckthatshit.
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[] naked_potato Antitheist 7points3hoursago

Idon'tknowifI'lleverbeabletoexpresshowmuchIhatethisfuckingorganization.
Takethemtocourtandfuckthemwithacactus.
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[] Ranaj 4points3hoursago

THIS!
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givegold

[] Kessee Heresiarch 9points3hoursago

"..maybeitwasGod'swill."
Holy.Shit.I.Hate.What.This.Cult.Does.To.Good.People.
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[] morganizedreligion 9points2hoursago

Lookslikethisstoryislegit...http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/Asisterfromthesame
missioninVancouver,WAwrotethisonherblogonMay28,2014...soundslikethisstory.
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[] dante2810

1point1hourago

Gladyoufoundthis
Ikeptsearchingandcouldnotfindanyindependentreferencetothisstory.
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[] [deleted]4hoursago*

[deleted]
[] fa1thless Faithmeansnotwantingtoknowwhatistrue. [M]4points4hoursago

Nopersonalinformation.Wedonotneedawitchhunt.
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[] CountVonNeckbeard 2points1hourago

Whatifshe'sactuallyawitch?Weshouldhuntherjusttobesafe
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[] fa1thless Faithmeansnotwantingtoknowwhatistrue. 1point1hourago

Thencallhazelandgrertylandleaveittothepros.
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[] DonttouchyourZelph 5points4hoursago

Heartbreaking!
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[] Frostgreen 3points4hoursago

Sorry,mycondolences.Thatladyshouldnotbeinthatposition,herignorancehascaused
harmtoothers
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[] tincanfurball 3points3hoursago

I'msorryforyourloss.Thechurch'semphasisonobedience,andthehorriblesituationsit
oftencausesisabsolutelydisgustingtome.
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[] Bennyboy1337 3points3hoursago

Wordscannotdescribe.Ireallydohopeyoureachoutandtrytomakethismonstrous
actionmorewellknown,atbestsuccessfullegalactioncanbebroughtagainstthechurch
andpeoplewillhearaboutthisstorynationorevenworldwide.Ireallywishyouthebestof
luck,thereareplentyofkindancaringpeopleonthissub,askusifyouneedanyhelp.
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[] jor_gen_sen 5points3hoursago

Losingasiblingmustbesopainful,andI'msosorrytohearofyourloss.I'mnolawyer,but
ifmedicallytrainedandlicensedprofessionalsreleasedyoursisterfromthehospital,then
theywouldbetheoneswhocouldbelegallyliableforherdeath.Notanuntrained
volunteer.I'mnotdefendingthepolicy,butconsideringthetimelineofevents,Sister
Presidentisnotlegallyliable.
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[] seventhvision 4points3hoursago

Thechurchhasbeendoingthingslikethisfordecades.Theygetawaywithitbecause
peopledon'tliketosueachurch.Idon'tknowwhy,negligenceisnegligence.Thechurch
won'tchangeunlesspeoplestartstandingupforthemselves.
Iwoulddefinitelytakethisstorytothepress.It'stimetoletthecatoutofthebag.
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[] raffastafarian 3points3hoursago

Ican'timaginehowyourmothercouldwatchherchilddieofatreatableinfectionbecause
shewasdeniedtreatment,andthensayitwasGod'swill.Thatpoorwomanmustbe
miserable.IwishIcoulddosomethingtohelp.
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[] Venomade Delicioustothetaste 4points3hoursago*

ThatwholepermissiontogoseethedoctorruleisthebiggestcrockofshitI'veheard.I
can'tbelieveshewasdeniedmultipletimes!!!Whothehelldoesthat???!!!Thatisabsolute
negligenceandtheydeservetobeheldresponsible.Ihopeyoufindthemeanstoseek
justiceforyoursister,shedeservesit.Shededicatesayearandahalfofherlifetothe
churchandtheytakeawaytherestofit.FUCKTHISCULT.
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[] cadetgwladus 3points3hoursago

I'msosorryaboutwhathappened.Whateversupportyouneed,thiscommunityisherefor
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you.
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[] Debasers_Comics 3points3hoursago

Ihavenothingconstructivetoadd.
Fuckthosetwisted,monstrousfreaksandeverymewlingdefensethatdropsoutofthe
festering,cancerousassholestheycallmouths.
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[] eltiare

givegold
3points3hoursago

Thisisfuckingawful.Therearen'tenoughswearwordsintheEnglishlanguagetosayjust
howmindnumbinglyawfulthisis.Youshouldsuetokeepthemfromdoingthisagain.This
isn'tjustaboutyoursister,buttoeveryoneelsethattheywilldothistointhefuture.I'm
sosorryforyourloss.:(
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[] MorCowbell 3points2hoursago

Mysincerestcondolencesfirstofalltoyouandyourfamily.Thismustbeaverydifficultand
stressfultimeforeveryoneinvolvedandittookalotofcourageforyoutoposthere.
Secondly,pursuingchargesonthismanandwomenistherightthingtodotheyarein
clearviolationofthelawbyneglectingtheneededcareyoursisterobviouslyneeded.It's
amazingthatthemission'spresident'swifeabusedherpowerandthesystemyoursister
followed,andindoingsoultimatelycausedherdeath.Andthenforyourmothertojustifyit
asanactofgodisbeyondcomprehension.
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[] pamelakd

givegold
4points2hoursago

IfyoustartagofundmepagetohelpwiththefinancialcostsofpursuinglitigationIwill
gladlycontribute.Thisshouldnotbeallowedtogounansweredfor.
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[] iasazo 4points2hoursago

Thisisaverytragicstory.OnethingthatseemsverywrongthatIdon'tseeanyone
mentioningisherbeingreleasedfromthehospitaltwodayspriortoherpassing.Wasshe
stillsepticwhentheyreleasedher?
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[] CastigatRidendoMores 3points2hoursago

TLDR:Icameveryclosetodyingonmymissionforsimilarreasons,butinmycaseit
wasn'tnearlysoclearlyduetobadjudgmentorworse.Foronething,wehadanactual
missiondoctor.
Iamanorgantransplantrecipient,andtakemedicationsthatsuppressmyimmunesystem
inordertokeepmybodyfromrejectingthetransplantedorgan.ThatmeansIgetsick
rathereasily,Irecovermoreslowly,andminorinfectionscanleadtobigproblems.
Sohere'swhathappened:Igotsomenasalcongestionthatledtocongestedears(your
innereardrainsintoyournasalcavities,sothetubescangetblockedbymucus).Myears
startedtohurt,soImadeacallintothemissiondoctor,concernedthattheywereinfected.
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Sheaskedsomequestionsandcametotheconclusionthatitwasalmostdefinitely
allergies,despitemeneverhavingallergiesbefore.
Itrustedherjudgment,asshewasadoctorandIwasnot.Thethingis,mysuppressed
immunesystemalsomeanslesssymptomsofinfectionit'sharderformetogetafever,
forexample.Sothesignsofinfectionshewaslookingforweren'tallthere,buttheinfection
was.
Longstoryshort,afternumerousothercallsthepaingotsointensethatnothingwould
makeitbearable.Ispentadayinbedmoaning,sleepingacouplehoursoffandon.ThenI
noticedthatthesideofmyfacehadswollenup,myearaninchortwofurtheroutthanit
shouldbe.ThedoctortoldustogostraighttotheER.
Iwasinthehospitalforaweek,withthreedifferentIVantibiotics.Ittookanothercoupleof
weeksfortheswellingtogodownenoughtodrainmyearthroughtheeardrum.The
missiondoctorcametovisitmeinthehospital,absolutelymortifiedandapologetic.
Themoralofthestoryis:Whenitcomestoyourownhealth,don'tblindlytrustanyone
else'sjudgment,evenadoctor's.Ifyouseeadoctorandwhatthey'resayingdoesn'tseem
right,presstheissue.Getasecondopinionifnecessary.Doctorsknowwaymorethanyou
doaboutmedicalcare,buttheycan'tfeelwhatyouarefeelingandsometimestheymake
mistakes.
Andifyoucan't100%trustdoctors,definitelydon'triskyourownhealthontheadviceof
someonewithoutpropermedicaltraining.Ican'tbelievetheMP'swifewasso
unquestioninglyconfidentinheropinionwiththatmanycalls.Itnevershouldhavegotten
tothatpoint.
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[] repmack

givegold
5points2hoursago

InterestinglyenoughIthinkIknowaboutthestoryyou'retalkingabout.Areyousureyour
sisterwasn'tservinginaWashingtonStateMission?Specificallywassheinthesouthwest
ofthestaterightalongtheColumbiariverwhenshegotsickandpassedaway?
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[] thebumm 4points2hoursago

Onemorething,OP.It'syourmom'srighttobelievewhatshebelieves(thatit'sGod'swill)
BUTit'syourrightandtherestofyourfamily'stobelievewhatyoudo.Ifyouandtherest
ofyourfamilythinkthisisworthyoflegalaction,goforit.
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[] Themiffins 5points2hoursago

Feellikealotofpeopleareignoringthemomtellingthedaughtertolistentothepresident
andhiswife.
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[] freedomthinker 3points2hoursago

Verysorryforyourloss.Unbelievabletragedy.Youmayhavejustbecomemillionaires
becauseyoucouldsuetheFUCKoutofthoseinconsiderateFUCKS!!!Bestofluckandagain
sorry
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[] socratess 5points2hoursago

Sothebigquestioniswho'sprimarilyresponsibleforthedeath?IsittheMP'swifeorthe
Church?Yourcommentsplease.
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[] Jager4TheUndead 0points2hoursago

Bothinmyopinion.Sherepresentsthechurch.
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[] parachutewoman Guidedbycureloms 8points5hoursago

Thisisterrible.Thisistrulyterrible.Suethem,soitdoesn'thappentosomebodyelse.
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[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 7points5hoursago

Holyshit,thisstorybrokemyheart.I'msosorrythatthistragedythathappenedtoyou
andyourfamily.Andyoucertainlyareentitledtosuethescumresponsibleforusingtheir
authoritytopressureyourlatesisterinnotgettingmedicalcare!Pleasecontactalawyer,
theyshouldnotgetawaywiththisterriblecrimethatledtoaninnocentperson'sdeath.
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[] foruntous 8points4hoursago

I'msoverysorryforyourlossandforthewayyourfamilywastreated.
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[] dante2810

givegold
9points4hoursago

Iamsosorryaboutyoursister.
Iamsorryaboutyourmotheraswell.Ifeartimewilltakeit'stollasshetriestomaintain
theillusionthatthiswas"godswill"annotnegligencebytheMPwife.
Iwillbehonest,legalactionmaynotgoanywhere.Lawyerswillargueyoursisterwasan
adultanddidnotneedtheMPpermission.Andwhileweknowwhatamissionislike,non
memberwouldhaveahardtimeunderstandingwhyshedidnotjustgoonherown.
Ifyouwanttomakesuresomethinglikethisdoesnothappenagain,amediacampaign
mightbeawaytogo.
Thechurchfearsbadpress.
Whenpeopleaskthequestion"whydidn'tshejustgoonherown",thewholecultideology
getsexposed.
Onlyyouoryourfamilycanknowwhatisbestwaytohandlethesituationandwhetheryou
arewillingtogopublic.
Youareinourthoughts
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[] DogBones11 5points4hoursago

Thankyouforsharingyourdifficultstory.Youcanhelppreventsomethinglikethisfrom
happeningtoanothermissionary.
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[] NotVeryUsefulTruths Eppursimuove. 8points4hoursago

Thisisaterriblestory.
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Soundslikethehospitalalsobearssomeblamewhydidtheyreleaseher?!
Iwonderwhatgodlywisdominitiatedthepolicywheremissionmomswerequalifiedto
triagemedicalcare?Icanjusthearthatdiscussion,abouthow18yearoldboysand19
yearoldgirlsaren'tquitereadytodeterminewhenmedicalcareisnecessaryandwhenit
isn't,thereforegothroughawisemissionmom.Inthemeantime,havethoseyoungboys
andgirlsgooutandtellpeopletheanswerstoalloflife'squestions.
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[] ZapPowerz EthicalHedonist 5points4hoursago

Infuriating!Rageinducing!Thesehorriblehumanbeingsneedtobeheldaccountablefor
causingthedeathofyoursister!
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[] chanteusetriste

6points4hoursago

Unlessmissionpresidentsortheirwivesaredoctors...TheyareNOTqualifiedtodiagnose!
Suetheshitoutofthem,contactthemedia.Fuckwhatyourmomsaid.
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[] meateaterbc 6points3hoursago

Thisisapolicythatclearlyneedstochange.Ifyouhaveamedicalissue,itmustbetaken
upwithahealthcareprofessionalNOTthewifeofsomeoldguywhosomeotheroldguys
askedtobethere.
Thinkofitlikethisifyouhadtoaskyourbossforpermissiontogotothehospitalaftera
workplaceinjury,thatwouldbeaclearviolationofhealthandsafetyprotocol.THISISNO
DIFFERENT.
Pleaseatleastgospeaktoafewdifferentlawyersaboutthis.Youcouldsaveothers'lives.
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[] randomapologist 2points3hoursago

MyGod,Iamsosorry.Myheartbreaksforyou.Ican'timaginesuchasenselessloss.
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[] Ryguychu 2points3hoursago*

I'mallforlitigation!PleaseincludethemissionpresidentANDthechurch.Thisissomessed
up.Isanyonesendingthisstorytonewsoutlets?Butyes,pleaseverifythestorysomehow.
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[] Myfriendthewitchdoc 2points3hoursago

Assumingforaseconditwas"God'swill",thebehaviorofMPandwifewasstilldangerous
andunethical.Surelyyourmothercanagreewiththat?Whatahorriblepositionforyour
parentstobein.I'msosorryforyourloss,Iwishyouandyourfamilylotsofcomfortasyou
grieve.Ihopeyoucanallcometoagoodconsensusaboutwhattodoasafamily.
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[] vdau 4points3hoursago

Whenwasthis?Mygirlfriend'smom'sbestfriendwasthewifeofthePortlandmission
presidentinthelastdecade.....
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[] [deleted]3hoursago

[deleted]
[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] [deleted]2hoursago

[deleted]
[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago

I'vefounditmentionedonafewotherforums,anditlookslikeyou
mightberight.I'lldeletemycomments.
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 1point2hoursago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago

You'llnotethosecommentswerealreadydeleted.Verificationwas
provided.
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[] 089786 TheOracleofBullshitMountain 3points3hoursago

girlfriendhere,checkinginD:
ThiswasafterthemissionpresidentIknew(whichisarelief,becauseheandhiswife
arereallykindpeopleandwouldneverdenysomeonemedicalhelp,especiallysincehe
wasadoctor!)
Thatbeingsaid,Iamsosorry,OP!Thatissoterribleandit'sevenworsethatyour
familyisn'tunitedinconfrontingthisawfulreality.
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[] Shill4Shekels 2points2hoursago

http://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/32md9u/or_can_anyone_comment_on_the_possib
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[] maowsers93 3points2hoursago

Itisn'tGod'swilltoforcepeopletoworkforfreeinexcruciatingpainuntiltheydie.Thatis
man'swill.I'msosorryaboutyoursister.Thepeoplewhotreatedherlikethatneedtobe
heldaccountable.YoumightseeifyoucancontactsomeonewiththeACLUorothercivil
rightsgroupswhomightbeabletoputyouintouchwithsomelegalcouncil.
It'sastretchofasubjectbutI'darguethatmanipulatingsomeoneintobelievingtheyhave
toworkinpainagainsttheirwillisaninfringementonpersonalrights.
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[] [deleted]1hourago

[deleted]
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago

Idon'tthinkweshouldpostthosethingshere.OPmayhaveomittedtheprecise
locationinanattempttoslowthechanceofherbeingouted.Hernameisamongthose
ontheobituaryit'sbasicallylikeperipherallydoxxingher(presumingthisistheright
case,whichIbelieveitis).
IfOPdidn'twanttosharetheobitorspecificswhileshewascrowdsourcing
r/exmormon'sresponsesonthis,weshouldrespectthatuntilshehasachanceto
gatherherthoughtsanddecidewhetherornottopursuethislegally.
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[] siirna 3points1hourago

Ourmomdoesn'twanttopursueanyactionagainstthemissionpresidentbecauseshe
believesthatmaybeitwasGod'swill.
TherearenothurtfulenoughthingsIcansayaboutthatthingtoconveyhowreadingthis
mademefeel.
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[] raezin 2points1hourago

Canwegetthistothemedia,please?OP,pleasedemandjusticeforyoursistertoprotect
othersonsanddaughtersfromthesamefate.Backthechurchintoahotcornerandforce
themtolookatwhattheydidlikeadogintrouble.Wavethislikefecesundertheirnose.
Theymustbeheldaccountable.
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[] Drainbownick 3points1hourago*

Youneedtotakethiscasetoaninvestigativejournalistandgetastorycirculating,then
followupwithalawsuitoncethereissomemediaorpublicbacklashagainstthechurch.I
amnotagainstLDS,quitetheoppositeIhavemanygoodfriendsinthechurchandI
respectthemasawholedespitetheflawsoftheorganization(andthecrockofcrapthey
arefoundedon)butthismedievalthinkingmustbeeradicatedwhereverit'sfound.
Edit:terriblysorryforyourloss...don'tbebitteratyourmom,she'sindenial...bitterness
won'thelpyoucope.Myheartgoesouttoyouandyourfamily.
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[] sojuatheist 10points2hoursago

Inoticedabunchofvanilla,nonconfrontational,nonsarcastic,sympathetic,regular
commentsthatweredownvoteddownthere.Ipassedabunchofvotesaroundto
compensate.
TotheTBMwhothoughtitwasagoodideatogothroughathreadlikethisandblanket
downvoteeveryone...Fuck.You.GoshoveaBookofMormonupyourass.
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[] maowsers93 6points2hoursago

I'mnoticedthesamethingandI'mupvotingeveryonetoo.Whysomeonewouldgo
throughasensitivethreadlikethisandblanketdownvoteeveryoneisbeyondme.
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[] guiglia 5points5hoursago
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I'msosorrytohearaboutthispainfulsituation.Iunderstandthatitisaverysensitive
issuebutthinkyouarerighttoshareyourconcernswithotherstohopefullyprevent
anothersituationofthisnature.Heartfeltsympathy.
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[] desertrat22 6points4hoursago

Heartbreakingsosorryforyourloss.Mayyoufindintimewhateverpeaceisobtainable
fromthishorrificsetofcircumstances.
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[] laineypc 5points4hoursago

Soverysorryforeveryoneinvolved.Itwasn'tgod'swill.Itwasbadpolicy,badjudgment
andoverrelianceonfaith.Onehastowonderifthemissionpresident'swifewouldhave
madethesamedecisionswereitherowndaughter.Mythoughtisthatthechurchpolicy
needstobeaddressedandchanged,andperhapslegalactionisnecessaryforthechurchto
taketheproblemseriously.Iamafanoftheconceptofrestorativejusticeandmediationas
Ithinkitisultimatelymorehealingforallinvolved,butIdon'thaveexperiencetoback
thatup.Butmediation/reconciliationbetweenyourfamilyandthemissionpresidentand
hiswife,byaneutral(nonchurch)3rdpartyisanotheroptiontoconsider.
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[] CraigPaxton

givegold
6points4hoursago

Thankyouforsharingthisimportantstory.YouNEEDtotakethistotheChurchOffice
Building.Thisneedstobearequiredlessontaughttothenewandcurrentmission
presidentssothatthiskindofnegligenceisNEVERrepeatedEVER.
Iamsosorryforyourunimaginableloss...andknowingthatitwaspreventablehadyour
sisteronlylistenedtoherownneedsratherthanhermissionpresidentswife...onlymake
thisallthemoretragic.
Pleasecontactthechurchandmakecertainthatyoursistersdeathisnotinvain.Others
camebeprotected...ifthistragiclessonistaughttoallcurrentandfutureMP's
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[] im26e4u 4points4hoursago

Whatatragicandunnecessaryloss.Ifeelsoverysorry.Dowhatyouthinkisthebest
courseofactionforthefamily,andIhopewithtimeallcanhealfromthistragicloss.
CertainlytheresponsibilityrestssolelyontheMissionPresidenthimself,noteventhewife,
heistheoneultimatelyresponsible,andbyextensionthechurchherepresents.
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[] Unmormon1 4points4hoursago

IfMomdoesn'tloveherdaughterenoughtodoanything,I'datleasttrackdownevery
missionaryIcouldthatknewherandmakesurethey'rehearingthetruestory.
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[] crispybaconsalad 4points4hoursago

Iwouldreallyliketoseesomesortofjusticecomefromthis.
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[] JulieGrenn 4points4hoursago
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Myheartisbrokenforyouandyourfamilyi'msosorry.Thismakesmesoangry,whatdoes
itcostthechurchtoletthemissionariesgotothehospital?
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[] murmalerm

5points3hoursago

Notacult/S
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[] TheWayoftheFuture ...thewayofthefuture...thewayofthefuture... 4points2hoursago

Talktoanattorney.Forgetaboutthechruchs'lawyers.Yourattorneyshouldtakeacaselike
thisoncontingencysoyourattorneywillgetpaidoutofsettlementproceedsorfromthe
judgment.
Please,please,pleasetalktoanattorneyinOregon.
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[] onlythecosmos

3points3hoursago

I'mverysorryforthis.Irememberhowonmymissiontheywoulddoeverythingtheycould
tonotletusseetheDoctor.Presschargesandgotothepress,please.Ifyouneedhelp
withdonationsI'msurewecanallhelp.Pleasekeepusposted.
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[] BadLuckRabbitsFoot 5points3hoursago

Thisstoryneedstobebroughttolightandparadedoutintothemedia.Justlikemany
otherhavesaid,theonlythingthatisgoingtomakethechurchchangeandfixtheseissues
isifthey'reshowntobeinabadlight.ThisHAStoatleastgetout.I'dsuggestseeingif
youcanpursuesomesortoflegalaction,andIhopeyoudo,butIcanunderstandifyou
decidenotto.Butplease,please,please,atleasttrytogetthisfurtherintothepubliceye.
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[] BanetteTrainer 4points2hoursago

Ifyourmothereverreadthebibleshewouldknowthatapainfuldeathforherchildwas
nevereverapartofthewillofGod.
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[] razorwiredbliss 4points2hoursago

Thisisstandardprocedure,andiscompleteidiocy.Ineveroncewenttomymission
presidentswife,asIknewshewasn'tmedicallytrained,andIdon'tcountbeinga
"mommy"andputtingbandaidsoncutstobesufficienttogiveherauthorityoverevery
missionary'shealth.
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[] filmmaker30

7points5hoursago

Sososorryforyourloss.Horrendous.Youshouldsuetomakesurethisdoesn'thappen
again.
Arethereanylawyersoutthere?Theyhavetohavearealcaseright?Especiallyifthesister
gotinwriting?Thisisterrible.Thisiswhathappenswhenyoutakeawaypeople'sabilityto
thinkforthemselves.Disgusting.
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[] silverfirexz

1point2hoursago

Wow.Iamsosorryforyourloss.Ithinkyoushouldpublicizeyourstory,andpursuelegal
charges.Thisbehaviorwasnegligentandshouldbeprosecuted.Thechurch,andthis
missioncoupleshouldbeheldresponsiblefortheiractions,andforthegreatharmthey've
caused.Sothattheydon'tdoitagain.
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[] onemightyandstrong 1point2hoursago

Negligenceofmissionarywellbeingisalltocommon.Myexgirlfriendtoldmeshewasraped
onhermissionbecauseanAPwastoocheaptobuyheraprivatecabinonatrain.
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[] LDSRevelations 1point2hoursago

Sosorryforyourloss.Iwaswantingtoreadmoreaboutwhathappenedbutcan'tseemto
findanythinginthepressaboutit.2014inPortland?
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[] beerob81 1point2hoursago

Yousuethemandthechurchasawhole.Noquestion
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[] socratess 1point2hoursago

Thisisterrible!AlawyershouldlookatthehandbookandtheLDShealthinsurancepolicy.
Forinternationals(Germans)withsuperbhealthcarethatmustbeevenmoreshocking.Not
sureifthereisnegligencebytheadminofficer,butmycorepointiswhetherahealthcare
approvalsystemisreallyallowedtoletnonprofessionalstakeonaresponsibleroleinhealth
careandoverrulespecialistmedicaladvisejusttosavemoney?Thiscouldbematerialfora
classactionsuit.
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[] living_out

givegold
1point2hoursago

OhmyGod!I'msosorry,andangry!Whateverlegalactioncanbebrought,oughttobe,
withoutquestion.
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[] darwinn_69 3points2hoursago

UnfortunatelyIdon'tthinkyoucansue.Unlesstheyheldaguntoherheadshemadeher
owndecisions.However,gettingthisexposureisprobablyyourbestbet.Wouldbringing
thisuptochurchofficialssothosepeoplelosetheirjobbeanoption?
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[] socratess 1point1hourago

Can'tgetoverit.Theyyelled?Whataboutsayingoveranoverhowsorrytheyare?Have
theyalreadybeenbriefedbylawyers?
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[] CountVonNeckbeard 2points1hourago

IsthisyoursisterOP?
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1393626,1393708
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[] Merari01 3points1hourago

I'msosorryforyourloss.
Pleasepresscharges.Thesepeoplearedirectlyresponsibleforherdeath.
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[] patriarchybasher 1point1hourago

TherearesomeattorneysinPortlandwhohavesuedtheLDSchurchoverchildabuse.I
don'tknowthenameofthefirmbutthe"get"whatit'sliketotakeontheLDSchurchand
theyarenotafraidtodoit.Itmightbethiscase:http://www.prnewswire.com/news
releases/childabusecoverupcostsmormonchurch3million71939217.html
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[] patriarchybasher 2points1hourago

Lookslikethesameattorney,DavidSlader,alsosuedtheCatholicChurch,butIcan't
findaninternetpresenceforhim.However,anotherattorneymentionedinthearticle
hasawebsite.Hereisthestory:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/articles/A312662004Jul6.html
AndhereisalinktoWilliamBarton'slawfirm:
http://www.superlawyers.com/oregon/lawyer/WilliamABarton/8531bd6d798949e5
aee7265b7a8fe69c.html
Idon'tknowanythingabouttheseguysotherthanthattheyhavetakenonbig
defendants,includingtheLDSandCatholicchurches,butI'mthinkinglawyerslikethis
wouldlovetotakeonthiskindofcase.
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[] TomLambe 2points1hourago

Thisisunbelievable!
Youcan'tgotoadoctorbecauseGodwillbemad!?
Fuckinghell,I'vehearditallnow!
Sorryforyourloss.
Suethefuckoutoftheselfish,evil,manipulativewankers.
Hittheminthepursestrings,it'sobviousthatthat'stheirmainaim,youknow,since
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they'dratheryoursisterearnthemfollowersandmoneythanreceivemedicalhelpandlive.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] Reprobates 3points1hourago

SoundslikeithappenedinVancouver,Washington(acrosstheriverfromPortland).Has
anyonecontactedthelocalnewspaper?
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[] bt2184 2points1hourago

Mostpostsinheregetmybloodbooing,butthisisawholeotherlevelofanger.Howcan
theyleavemedicaldecisionsuptosomerandomlady?
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[] andthisiswhere ridingthatmajestictapir 3points1hourago

Probablyanewmissionpresident,andthisisnowhereneartheseverity,butmybrother
alsoservedinPortland.Hehadseverebackpainandwasgivenasimilarrunaroundand
toldto'dosomestretches.'
AnotherbrotherservedinUtahandhadseveremedicalissueswithhisfeet.Whenhecame
homehehadtohavenumerousdoctorandspecialistvisitstorepairthedamageasthey
wereleftuntreated.
Thelackofhealthcareinmissionsisappallingespeciallyconsideringtheobedienceculture
andthefactthatthesekidsaresacrificingtimeandmoney.Fewthingsmakememore
angryaboutthechurch.I'msosorryyouhavebeenapartofthisproblem.
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[] AarBearRAWR 3points1hourago

Ican'tofferyouanylegalcouncil,asIamnotwellversedinthelawtodoso.AllIcanoffer
asanexMormonmyself,andahumanbeing,ismysincerecondolencesandwellwishesfor
youandyourfamily.Nooneshouldeverhavetogothroughsomethinglikethis.Iamso
sorry.
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[] JohnnyReeko 3points1hourago

OfcoursethisisasensitiveissueandIcan'tevenbegintounderstandwhatyoumust
goingthroughsoIhaverestrainedmyselfinwhatIwasgoingtosay.Instead,I'lljustsay
thatthissituationisjustmessedup,bigtime.
I'mnotanexmormon,Ijustsawthisonthefrontpageanditmademereallyangry
readingit,particularlyyourmothersattitudetowardsthewholething.
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[] Kumdogmillionaire 2points1hourago

Yourmomkilledhertoo
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[] makeswordcloudsagain 2points2hoursago

Hereisawordcloudofallofthecommentsinthisthread:http://i.imgur.com/h2wbe4y.png
sourcecode|contactdeveloper|faq
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[] blindmormon WhereasIwasblind,nowIsee. 3points2hoursago

I'msosorryforyourloss.
:(
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[] glaringoryx 3points2hoursago

Hey,Ihadanalmostexactsamethinghappentomeonmymission(withalesssevere
outcome,obviously)butitdidleavememaimedforlife.Iamanactivememberofthe
church,butthisisn'tatestimonyissuebutratherairresponsibleanddangerouspolicy
issue.Pleasepmmeifyouwanttotalk,Iamalsowillingtosharemystoryifyoufilesome
sortofclassactionlawsuit(notalawyer)toshowapatternofabuse.ThisisapolicythatI
absolutelyhate,andwouldlovetotalkwithyou.
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[] The_Man11 ...andthetruthshallmakeyoufree. 3points2hoursago

SomethinglikethiswouldbeinthenewsandI'mnotseeingit.IcallBSuntilyouhavea
newslink.
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 3points2hoursago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] big_dumb_jerk 1point2hoursago

Sue.Now.
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[] Jess_than_three 1point1hourago

That'sso,soawful.I'msosorryforyourloss.
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[] rushaz accordingtoMormonism,I'mgoingtohell.YAY! 2points1hourago

I'mcurioustoask,isthereanydocumentedproofofthis?newsstoriesaboutitprinted
anywhere,obituaries,etc?
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago

There'sanobituaryandmissionaryblogpostsonlineifyougooglewithVancouver,WA
(whichisveryclosetoPortland).Thedetailscheckout.
I'mbummedthatOPseemstohavegoneofflinewhileallthesuspicionwasswirling
she'sgoingtobecomingbacktoashitstormofinnuendowhenshegetsbackhere.
OP,Iamsosorryforyourloss,andIsupportwhatpeoplearetellingyouabouttaking
legalaction.Pleasesue.Thisisunforgivableneglect,andyouhavetheemailstoprove
it.
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givegold

Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefrom
externalsubreddits.
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[] Reprobates 1point1hourago

Obituarylink?
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 1point1hourago

Idon'twanttopostthelink,becauseIfeelthatOPwouldhaveincludedmore
solidinformationifshehadwantedto.Butifyougooglethebasicwordsofthe
storywithVancouver,WA,there'sathreadonexmormon.orgthatappearsright
atthetop.Thefirstrespondentpoststhemissionblogthattalksaboutwhat
happened,andIgoogledthedeceasedsistermissionary'snamefromthere.
Sorrytobesobackwardaboutit,butIjustdon'tthinkit'sfairtodoxxtheOP
overtlyhere.I'mbettingshe'sgoingtobeprettyhorrifiedwhenshelogsbackin
andseeshowmuchofarunawaytrainthisis,andIdon'twanttocontributetoo
directlytoherfeelingvulnerable,asshelikelywill.
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[] Burninator_89 1point1hourago

Lawyerup
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[] MarkyOchoa 2points1hourago

Wowthatissomesickshit.
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[] alansjenn Cheesecake...it'swhat'sfordinner. 1point1hourago

MynephewisservinginPortlandatthisverymoment.WonderifIshouldbringthisupto
myveryTMB,veryreactionarysister.Ofcourse,she'lljustagreewhilewe'reonthephone
andthenblowitalloff,becausethechurchisn'tcapableofdoinganythingwrong.
Ireallyhopeyoudofileasuit,becauseyoursisterisoneofwhoknowshowmanytheworld
haslostbecauseofunfitleadership.It'snotgoingtostopunlesssomeonemakesthem
responsible.
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[] Cistem 2points1hourago

fuckthisshit
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[] exmo88 1point1hourago

The'only'thingthischurchunderstandsis$$$.Hitthemwhereithurts,thenenjoyanice
retirement.
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[] wheep 1point1hourago

But,ourMomencouragedhertobeobedienttothemissionpresident'srules.
Ourmomdoesn'twanttopursueanyactionagainstthemissionpresidentbecauseshe
believesthatmaybeitwasGod'swill.
Whatthefiswrongwithyourmom?Mymotherwasalsohopelesslybrainwashed,andwas
soextremethatshewasexcommunicated.
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Ifyouaregoingtosue,yourmomshouldbesuedaswell.
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[] almale12 2points1hourago

Iamaretiredattorney.IhaveabrotherwhoservedonamissionforLDS.Iagreewiththe
Dr.Inthepostabove.Ifyoulike,Iwillgiveyoumyphone#Iwillgiveyoumyopinionon
thelegaloptionsyoumayhave.
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[] DreadPiratesRobert FormerElderDread 2points1hourago

Unfortunatelythisisthesituationanytimeyouneedtoaskformedicalcare.Ipicked
someoneupfromanursinghometheotherday(I'manEMT),andhehadaskedforthe
previous3daystogototheERbutwasdenied.Hehadpneumoniaandwaspractically
drowninginhisownlungs.
Luckily,inmysituation,thereisreadilyavailablerecourse(throughthestatehealth
department).Youstillhaverecourse(throughlitigation).I'dsuggesttakingit.Non
medicallytrainedpeopleshouldnotbemakingmedicaldecisions.Youcouldpossiblysave
thelivesofmanymissionaries.
Hell,eventheworstinsuranceplansallowsforERvisits.It'dbestupidnotto.
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[] sulosin justchoosetohavefaith 1point1hourago

Primeexampleofhowfollowing"God'swill"or"theSpirit"canbesoscrewedup.
I'msorryforyourloss.
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[] fromkentucky 2points1hourago

GotothePressandfindagoodnationallawfirm.
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[] Dtrain323i 1point1hourago

Scorchedearthpolicy.Dowhatittakestomakethempay.
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[] relevantlife 1point1hourago

Hereisamissionaryblogfromlastyear.
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoCONFIRMthestory.Incasethe"socalled"
churchcontactsthismissionaryandrequestsshetakeherblogdown,hereisascreenshot
ofthepost.
Also,thisobit:
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[] ignore_my_typo 1point1hourago

EditoutthepartaboutyourmominagreementwiththeMissionariesifyouplantotake
thistocourt.
You'dhaveahardtimeconvincingajurythatitwasthemthatyoursisterwasobeyingand
notyourmother.Ifyourmomsaidsheshouldn'tgototheDr.thenyourmotherisjusta
guilty.Itwillbemessy.
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[] flip69 1point1hourago

Thefactisthatshewasdeniedmedicalattentionafterrepeatedrequests.
Thatisabuse,mistreatmentandneglectthepeoplewhodidthisareresponsibleandthe
churchbyextensionforendorsingthem.
Stronglyperuselegalaction...doNOTbeintoimidatedbyeitherthechurchorthethreatof
thelawyers.Theyhavenopower,iftheydidthentheywouldbefirstinlineforbeing
responsibleforyoursistersdeath.
Theyarejustgoingtotrytocovertheirassesandpasstheblameontoothersiftheycan.
Yoursisterdidnotdeservetodieinpain...shedidnothingwrongandwasjustbornintoa
religionthatattemptstocontrolalltheirmemberseverymove.
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[] astralboy15 0points3hoursago

DISCLAIMER:Iinitiallypostedthis,thendeleteditoutofnotwantingtohurtany
feelings.Butthelackofanyobjectiveresponseshadmademetodecidetobringitback.
Beforeyoublamethemissionpresidentswifeobviouslythemissionpresidentswifehas
zeromedicalexperiencewhatdidyousisteractuallydiefrom?Ifitreallywasfroman
ongoinginfectionwhichIfindunlikelyconsideringthestory,hospitalsdon'ttendto
releasepatientsinanydegreeofsepsisthehospitalwouldbethefirstplacetocasta
stone.
WithouthavingallthefactsIfindthisstorykindoflike"missionpresidentkillselder
becausehetoldthemtogotractingandtheyknockedintoaserialkiller."Didyoursister
clearlyarticulatetothemissionpresidentswifethatthedoctorexplicitlytoldhertoseek
medicalattentionshouldseefeelunwell?Didyoursisternothaveafollowupappointment
withhersurgeon?AndasanRMIunderstandthatstigma,but,attheendofthedayyour
sisterwasanadultandthemissionpresidentswifereallydidnotstopherfromseeking
care,asisevidencedwhenshewenttotheER.
Iamsorryforyourloss.
Buttrytoconsidertheentiresituationbeforeyoudecidewhotothrowunderthebuss.
ObviouslyI'mjustquarterbackingfromtheinformationyouprovided,but,considerall
aspectsbeforeyoucastblame.Iunderstanditmustbesatisfyingtoblamea
church/representativeofsaidchurchwhenyouordisaffected,but,Ithinkyouneedtobe
moreobjectiveinyourevaluationofwhathappenedspecifically,whathappenedinthe
hospitalandthenafterbeforeyouclaimsomeonekilledher.
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[] 089786 TheOracleofBullshitMountain 8points3hoursago

Idon'tthinkthisisreallytheplacetoattackOPformisplacedanger.
Hospitalsaren'twithouthumanmistakesandaccidents.Whenaninfectionhasbeen
brewingforsolong,itcanbehardtoknowifit'stotallygone.Wedon'thavemedicine
downtoanexactscienceandalotofmedicineisjusteducatedguessworkbydoctors,
whichiswhytheycankeepyouinthehospitalforsolong,sotheycanmonitoryoufor
changes.Ifanything,it'smostlythemissionpresidentandhiswife'sfaultforsittingon
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theirassesforsolongwhiletheinfectiongotdeeperanddeeperintoOP'ssister.
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[] astralboy15 1point2hoursago

ThisiswhyIinitiallydeletedthecommentI'mnottryingtoattacktheOP,just
tryinghopefullygethimtoconsidereverythingbeforeheblamessomemission
presidentswife.Maybeshehadanadversereactiontotheantibioticsshewasgiven?
Maybeshediedduetoanunknown(andthereforeuntreated)medicalconditionshe
wasn'tawareof?Maybetheinstrumentsusedinsurgerywereneverproperly
sterilizeandthatiswhyshegotinfected?Whatifthoseinstrumentswereinfected
withvirusoranextremelyantibioticresistantbacteria?Maybethesurgeonused
unsteriletechniqueandthatiswhyshegotinfected?Andthesamegoesforany
numberofwaysshecouldhavedevelopedcomplicationstoIVmedsinthehospital.
Tosaythatthemissionpresidentswifekilledhissisterisnotaccurateifshediddie
duetocomplicationsfrominfectionlongstoryshort,organfailure.Perhapsone
couldclaimnegligence?I'mnotfamiliarenoughwiththelawtothrowoutanymore
specificterminology.However,whensomehashadsurgery,gotapostopinfection,
wasadmittedtothehospitalfor48hoursofIVantibiotics(whichisNOTalongtime
forsomeonewhoisseptic...,discharged,anddied48hourslater...guesswherethe
smokinggunis?
Nowtrythis:
[Missionpresidentswives]aren'twithouthumanmistakesandaccidents.When
aninfectionhasbeenbrewingforsolong,itcanbehardtoknowifit'stotally
gone.[Missionpresidentswives]don'thavemedicinedowntoanexactscience
andalotof[whatmissionpresidentswivesdo]isjusteducatedguessworkby
[limitedexperienceandpossibleconsultationwiththemission/areadoctor],
whichiswhytheycankeepyouinthe[outworking]solong,sotheycanmonitor
youforchanges.Ifanything,it'smostlythe[surgeons/hospitals/admitting
physician]faultfor[mismanagingthepatient]whiletheinfectiongotdeeperand
deeperintoOP'ssister.
AsmanyproblemsthatIhavewiththechurch,andasmuchasIcanlovethissub
sometimes,itneverceasestoamazemetheconfirmationbiasusedbytheposters
hereomgsomethinghappenedtoamissionaryandInolongerlikethechurch,it's
thechurchesfault!Burnthewitches!
Again,OP,I'msorryforyouloss,noonedeservestoloseasiblingtosuch
circumstancesandatsuchanage.Mythoughtsarewithyou.
I'vesaidmypiece.I'mdonewiththisthread.
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[] 089786 TheOracleofBullshitMountain 3points1hourago*

IdontdisagreewithyouIdoubtthemissionpresidentORhiswifewastrying
tobemalicious.However,someoneDIED.Thatisnotsomethingyoucanshrug
offas"Ididntknowbetter!"
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[] astralboy15 1point1minuteago
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Iagree.Butthosewithgreatertraining(inthiscasemedical)shouldbeheld
toahigherlevelofaccountability(thehospital/attendingphysician(s),the
surgeon).
Forexample,"sistersoandsoIhaveabackache""ok,takesomeadvil"......
boom,dissectingabdominalaorta,thenruptureanddeathseveraldayslater
couldshereallybeexpectedtohaveanyideaaboutanyofthat?
WhatwereallyneedtoknowisexactlyhowmuchinfoMPwifehad.Without
thatthisisawitchhunt.Maybeallshewastoldis"mymouthhurt"
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[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 1point2hoursago

Idon'tthinkheis.Therewasagravemistaketodeclinecareforsure,butthe
outcomemayormaynothavebeendirectlythefaultoftheMP'swife.Notthatany
ofthismattersbecauseitcouldbeallmadeupatthispoint.
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[] Captain_Blue_Shell 2points1hourago

Idon'tthinkthisisreallytheplacetoattackOPformisplacedanger.
Yeah,thisistheplacetoattacktheLDSChurchformisplacedanger.
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[] thebumm 4points2hoursago

Well,asadefender(normally)aswell,theMOSTIcouldsaytothisistheMPorMP's
wife,notthehospital.You'reaskingforissuesifyouignoreconstantpain,especially
sincethedentistthedoctordirectlyrelatedtosaidpainspecificallymentioned
seekingtreatmentiftherewasanypain.Thehospitalcanonlyseeandfixsomuch.
Theymaybeliableforsomething,buttherootoftheissueisindeedontheinaction
counteractionoftheMPandwife.
SomythoughthereisMPandMP'swifesecuredtheirplaceunderthebus,andseeking
legalactionagainstthembywayofthechurchistheonlywaytogetthemoutandany
furtherdamagestopped.
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[] astralboy15 3points2hoursago

Unlesstheydidn'tdoanythingwrong?
OPnevergaveusarealcauseofdeath"infection"isridiculouslygeneral.Whenyou
getsepticyoudon'tdiefromthefactthatyouhavebacteremiameaning,bacteria
intheblood,and48hoursforaturnaroundonabloodculturesisridiculouslyfast,
really,sounlesstheywereusingsomerealtimePCR(whichIHIGHLYdoubt),this
storydoesn'tsoundlikesepsisanditssequelaeyoudiebecauseyouget
hypotensiveandgointomultipleorgandysfunction.Whichanynoncriminally
negligentphysicianshouldbeabletodiagnoseandobtainprompttreatment.
Andwhathappenedtoherpostoperativecheck,aprettystandardprotocolfollowing
surgery.
Toblamethemissionpresidentswifeofbeinginthewrongwe'dreallyneedto
assumethatshehadfullknowledgeofthesituationhowmanymissionpresidents
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wivesaretrainedinpostoperativecare?Wouldn'tanonmedicallytrainedpersons
naturalassumptionis"youarejusthavingnormalpostoperativepain."Wasthe
missionpresidentswifetoldofthesurgeonspostoperativeprecautions?
Iseethissituationasbeingthesameasabosswhotellstheiremployeetogoahead
andtakeacoupleofdaysoffbecausetheyarefeelingsickandthentryingtosue
thebosswhenthatemployeediesfromcomplicationsassociatedwithaischemic
bowelorsomething.
Itsreallyeasytoblamethechurch.That'stheconfirmationbiaseveryoneisalways
harpingonabout,right?It'shardertobeobjective.
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[] thebumm 4points2hoursago

NoIseeitasakidwhohasbeensickaskinghisteachertogotothebathroom
andtheteachersayingno.Thekidaskingagainandtheteachersayingno,then
thekidhavingdiarrheaonthefloor.Oryourexampleoftheemployee/employer,
theemployertellingtheemployeetoignoresymptomsandsuckitupbecause
it'saworkday.
Healthshould100%ofthetimetrumpanythingelse.Ifyouareinpainafter
anyoperationthereareprotocolsinplace.Thisone,thedentistsaidexplicitlyto
seeadoctorinthecaseofpain,andthatright,thataction,wasdeniedbythe
MPandwife.Theprotocolwasignored.IftheMP/wifedidn'tknowofthe
dentist'sdirectionandprotocolsthat'sevenMOREonthem,becauseiftheyare
inchargeof"givingpermission"toseemedicalprofessionalstheyshouldhaveall
theinformationbeforemakingadecision.
WhenIwenttocampasakidIwasaskedformymedicalissuesorallergiesor
medicationsothistypeofthingwouldn'thappen.IftherewasanissueIwas
askedifitwasrecurring,whatmyparentsordoctorsdidinthepast,andthe
historywouldbereviewed.WhenIsaid"MydoctorsaidifXhappens,Ishoulddo
Y"IwasnottoldtodoZandforgetitasthisyoungladywas.
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[] hitchcocklikedblonds 3points1hourago

Yeah,theMPandhiswifearecertainlyatsomefault.
Ifayoungpersoncomestoyouandsaystheyareinpersistentpain,you
takethemtothedoctor.IteachuniversityandIhavesentstudentstothe
doctorbeforebecausetheymentionedapersistentpainordidn'tlookwell.
Oneofthekid'sendeduphavingmeningitis.
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[] thebumm 3points1hourago

Healthisjustnotsomethingtotakelightlyonanylevel.Asapersonina
respectedpositiontoignoresomethinglikethat,orworsetodismissit...
justnotgoodatall.It'sonethingtotakeitseriousandhavethedoctor
betheonetosay"You'recomplaining,it'snotabigdeal"buttohavea
specificplaninplacefromthedoctorandtojustdismissitlikethatis
indefensible.Therecouldbemorefaulttogoaround(maybethedentist,
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maybethehospital)buttheblametomecertainlyhastogonearlyallon
theMPandhiswife.
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[] hitchcocklikedblonds 2points1hourago

Iagree.IteachyoungADULTSandIwouldneverstoponeofthem
fromleavingclassiftheyfeltillorwereinpain.
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[] thebumm 1point1hourago

Nottopileon,butyouhadapointIdidn'treallytouchonthatIprobablyshould
haveaddressed,andIapologize.
YourpointthatOPneverspecifiedacauseofdeathisvalid.However,causeof
deathinthiscaseactuallydoesn'tmatter.WhatMPandwifedidwronginthis
caseisdenyaccesstoahealthcareprofessional.WhileOP'ssister'sdeathcould
becompletelyunrelatedtohertoothissues(notlikely,butpossible)avisitto
thedoctorwouldhaveraisedherchancesoffinding/addressing/curingany
problemshemayhavehad,ifevenslightly.Thefactisn'tthattheydidn'tallow
hermouthpaintobeassessed,butthattheydidn'tallowanythingtobe
addressedatall.Thatisbadonitsown,whatevertheautopsyfinds.Butyes,I
dobelievetheCODwillberelatedandthatmakesitsomuchworseconsidering
howmuchtimeandhowmanywarningswereignoredanddismissedbythosein
apositionofpowerandtrust.
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[] astralboy15 1pointjustnow

MPswifeallowedhertohavesurgery.
Butbottomline,missionariesareadults..
AndIhatetodothis,butfollowthatlogicisthemomalsotoblame?Surely
themomhadfulldisclosureonthesituationandstillsaidtonotgotothe
Dr...Justsayin'.Ifwerecastingblame,castitfairly
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[] jurroot BYUIdo 1point2hoursago

http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] astralboy15 1point5minutesago

Thewholethingoraspecificpost?
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[] _hownowbrowncow_ 1points2hoursago

"God'swill"
/scansuniverse
Toall:"Don'tmasturbate.Andhershespecificallymustdieormyentireplanfails"
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[] UOUPv2 3points2hoursago

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PoorBaxter...
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[+] drpeterfoster commentscorebelowthreshold(2children)


[] CherrySlush 3pointsanhourago

Theydidn'tforcehernottogo.Shedidnotgoofherfreewill.Blameyourmotheras
well....
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[+] Hubertoi commentscorebelowthreshold(1child)

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