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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
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Mysisterkilledonher
missionbytheMission
President'sWifeinPortland
( self.exmormon)
submitted5hoursagoby[deleted]
Ihavebeendebatingon
whethertopostthisornot.It's
obviouslyasensitiveissue.I
decidedthatIwanttodo
whateverIcantowarnother
familiesthattheseconditions
existoutinthemissionfield.
Mysisterwasenjoyingher
missioninPortlandlast
summer.Afterreceivingsome
neededdentalsurgeryshewas
sentbacktoworkbeinga
missionaryforTheChurchof
JesusChristofLatterday
Saints.Thedentistwarnedher
tocontactadoctorifshefelt
unwellbecauseinfectionwasan
unlikelybutrealrisk.Whenmy
hardworkingsisterbeganto
havepaininhermouthshe
soughtpermissiontoseea
doctorthroughthemission
president'swife.Thisisworld
wideprotocolformissionaries.
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thispostwassubmittedon14Apr2015
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shortlink: http://redd.it/32lyvr
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
Youaren'tsupposedtoseek
medicalhelpwithout
permissionfromyourmission
president.Mysister'srequest
wasdenied.Shewastoldto
takesomeaspirinandcontinue
thework.Mysisteraskedtosee
adoctorthreetimesoverthe
curseof2weeks.Eachtimeher
requestdenied.Mysister
reachedouttous,herfamily,
throughherweeklyemails
askinguswhatwethoughtshe
shoulddobecauseshewasin
pain.Manyofustoldherto
pleasegotothedoctorright
away.But,ourMom
encouragedhertobeobedient
tothemissionpresident'srules.
Anyonewhoisfamiliarwiththe
missionfieldrulesknowsthat
obediencewithoutquestionis
drilledintoyoungmissionaries
minds.Mysisterchosetodo
whatthemissionpresident's
wifeinstructed.Maybeshe
believedthatthemission
presidentandwifewereledby
spiritualinspiration.Maybemy
sisterthoughtshewouldbe
goingagainstGodbygoingto
thedoctor.Maybemysister
wasjustscared.Finally,the
paingotsobadtohandlethat
mysistersmissioncompanion
tookhertotheemergency
room.Infectionhadtakenhold
ofmysistersbody.Shewas
septicandadmittedintothe
hospitalfor2daysbeing
treatedwithantibioticsthrough
anIV.Wedidn'tknowifshe
wouldsurvivethatfirstnight.
Sheseemedtobedoingmuch
betteraftermedical
ReadourExitStories
fromMormonism
ReadourFAQs
Official/r/exmormonChat
LifeAfter
MormonismChat
ResourcePages:
HowtoformallyresignfromtheLDS
church,orotherwiselimitongoingcontact
bywardmembers
ListofcommonAbbreviations
Listofrecentapologeticessaysfrom
LDS.org
Listofresourcesavailabletomissionaries
wantingtoleavetheirmission.
Listofcommonsourcesandbook
recommendations
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Itisthedutyofeveryman,asfarashisability
extends,todetectandexposedelusionanderror.
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
interventionandherdoctors
releasedherfromthehospital.
Buttheinfectionhadheldon
toostrong.Within48hoursof
beingreleasedfromthe
hospital,mysisterpassedaway
inhermissionaryapartment
bedwhileshewasasleep.She
diedfrominfectionbecauseher
missionpresidentandhiswife
wouldn'tallowhertoseea
doctorwhenshewasinpain.
MybrotherswenttoPortland
andconfrontedthemission
presidentandhiswife.They
wereextremelydefensiveand
theyyelledatmybrothersto
leavethemalone.Someofusin
thefamilywanttopress
charges.Itisdifficulttogo
againstthechurch.Theycan
payforveryskilledlawyers.Our
momdoesn'twanttopursue
anyactionagainstthemission
presidentbecauseshebelieves
thatmaybeitwasGod'swill.I
don'tagree.
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RECENTLYVIEWEDLINKS
ThedarkersideofMormonism:
/u/sadieswalltellsaheartbreaking
storyofhowhersister,asaMormon
missionary,wasdeniedpermission
fromherleaderstoobtainmedical
attention,whichultimatelyleadtoher
death.
63points|18comments
SoIcameouttomyfamily...
16points|8comments
FirstdraftofmycommentstotheBYU
accreditationpaneltomorrow.
Feedbackwanted.
50points|33comments
Mysisterkilledonhermissionbythe
MissionPresident'sWifeinPortland
2095points|400comments
ManyMillennialsmaynotgotochurch,
butlikeEvans,theyhaveachurch
story."ThereasonsMillennialsare
leavingaremorecomplexthanalack
ofcool.Wevebeenadvertisedtoour
entirelives.WecansmellB.S.froma
mileaway.Soifyourejusttryingto
sellusaproduct,wecantell.
97points|16comments
[] Mynamesnotsister 1086points5hoursago
clear
Pleasepursuelegalaction.Takethisstorytothe
press.Yourfamilymaybeabletopreventa
tragedylikethisfromhappeningtosomeone
else'ssister.Iamsosorryforyourloss.
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subreddits.
[] firemeboy 484points4hoursago
PLEASErememberthatlitigationinthissituationisnotselfish.Thechurchwillnot
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
changeunlessthereisareason.Unfortunately,yoursister'sdeathislikelynotreason
enough.Amultimilliondollarlawsuit,andbadpublicityWILLgivethemareason,and
WILLcausechange.
Doitforyoursister.Doitsothisdoesn'thappenagain.
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externalsubreddits.
[] Ua_Tsaug FluentinreformedEgyptian 103points3hoursago
Exactly.Evenifyoudon'tcareaboutpublicityormoney,thiscoulddosomething
greater:saveinnocentpeople'slives.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago*
[deleted]
[+] videogameboy76 commentscorebelowthreshold(4children)
[] xoanan 62points2hoursago
I'veheardwhentheygetsued,theywilltrytouseguilttoreducetheamount
sought,besayingthings"Wewillneedtopaythiswithconsecratedtithingfunds.
Shouldn'tyoubeaskingforless?"Pleasedon'tletthemdothistoyou.Youneedto
sendamessageloudandclearthatthisshouldABSOLUTELYneverhappenagain.
Thesafetyofallmissionariesshouldbeparamountabovetheworkthey'redoing.
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[] youngseaguy 16points2hoursago
Itdoesn'tevenmatterifyouwin.Lawsuitslikethisareadeterrentandarelikelyto
leadtoachangeinpolicyevenifitlosesincourt.Itisalsoaneffectivewaytomove
thisupthechainwithinthechurch.Thissoundslikethebadactionsoftwopeople,I
veryseriouslydoubtthechurchcondonesdenyingmedicalcare,andthechurchjust
mightchangepolicytopreventitfromhappeningagain.
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[] ghodfodder 1pointanhourago
IthinkthechurchinstructsMPstominimizehealthcareexpensesthatthe
churchwouldhavetopay.IwasalsodiscouragedbymyMPfromseeking
medicalcarewhenIwasonmymission.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago*
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[] beerob81 2points2hoursago
Idon'tthinksheneedstoverifythis.
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TheycouldusethemoneytosetupascholarshipinOP'ssister'sname.
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[] tomdarch 2pointsanhourago
Workwithyourlawyertogetanamountthatisappropriateforthesituation
regardlessofitbeingmission/churchrelated.Thethewifeoftheownerofa
companystronglydiscouragedanemployeefromseeingadoctorwhenitwasclearly
statedbyadentistthatsheshoulddosoifshefeltpain,andrefusedrepeatedly
overtwoweeks,thatwouldbevery,veryserious.
Insistonanamountappropriateforthesituation,andusethemoneytoestablishor
contributetoacharityinyoursister'shonorandmemorythatshewouldhave
supported.
Itisinsaneandappallingthatover18sonmissionswouldneedpermissiontoseea
doctorwhentheyarehavingclearproblemssuchaspain.Arequirementtoinform
theofficialswiththemissionissillyandinappropriate,butwouldbeanimportant
improvementoverthecurrent,obviouslydangerousapproach.
Ican'tbegintoexpresshowsorryIamforyourandyourfamily'stragicloss.
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[] eastupward 1point42minutesago
Thepowerofintimidation.Ifithappenstoone,ithappenstoothers.Thisstory
makesmesick.
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[] Endlessintegrity 1point1hourago
IbelievethisisinGODsrealscheme.Toboycotttheseassholes!
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[] matt2001 137points3hoursago
Asaretiredphysician,Igenerallylookforreconciliation.However,whatyou'rereporting
hereisindefensible.Themissionpresidentandfamilygetmaids,healthcareanda
mansiontolivein.Thepoorkidsgetshit.Thechurchneedstobeheldaccountable
thishastochange.I'malsocuriouswhyshediedtwodaysafterdischarge.Thatisared
flag.Isawherpictureandfeltgreatsorrowthatherlifewascutshort,andforwhat?
Mycondolencestoyouandyourfamily.
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[] ShadeA2 7points1hourago
Iagree.Thiscannotbesweptundertherugandforgotten.Thismakesmeangry
toseethisnegligencehappen.Iftoothrelated(whichismostofthetime)This
couldhavebeenpreventedwithaSimpletoothextractionorrootcanal.
AsadentistworkinginahospitalsettingIseepatientseverydaywithfacial
swellingsandinfectedteeth.AnyswellingrelatedtodecayorabcessMUSTbetaken
seriously.Theseinfectionscanspreadveryquicklyinamatterofhoursespeciallyin
youngchildren.Antibioticswillnotfixtheunderlyingcauseandwithoverusecan
potentiallymakethesituationworse.Iamdeeplysorryforyourlose.Pleasereach
outandletusknowhowwecanhelp.
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
Yeah,I'mjustanEMT,butIfeellikesomeonebeingdischargedthendieingtwo
dayslaterfromsepsisisahugeredflagforthehospitalaswell.OPsattorneyswill
likelysueeveryoneinvolved,andwithgoodreason.
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Churchmedicalinsuranceformissionariesisajoke.ThehandfuloftimesIsaw
healthcareproviderswereinlousyconditionsandthecarewasawful(andIserved
stateside).IreallyhopethattheOPpursueslitigation,andtakescareoftheir
family.Thisisheartbreaking.
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[] matt2001 1point44minutesago
Theyhave80,000+kidsnow.Thatisabigresponsibility.Theyshouldspareno
expenseincaringforthem.TheChurchreliesonthefaithfultojustbowtheir
headsandnotrocktheboat.
MydaughterservedinthePeaceCorps.Shehadexcellenthealthcareanda
livingstipend.Whatadifference.
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[] ghodfodder 2points57minutesago
Whatdoestheredflagsuggesttoyou?Thatthephysicianswerenegligentorthat
thechurchinsurancepushedtogetherreleasedearly?
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[] matt2001 3points49minutesago
Thatneedstobeexplored.Somequestionscometomind.
1. Ifshewasseptic,wasthecausediscoveredabscess,osteomyelitis?
2. Wasthetreatmentappropriateandadequate?
3. WasshefollowedbyID?
4. Didanoralsurgeonsignoffonhercare?
5. Wastheinsurancecompanypushingforearlyrelease?Followup?
6. Whywouldsomeonebedeniedaccesstomedicalcareforweeks?
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Thiscouldveryeasilygettheupvotemomentumtoreachr/all...thatwouldmakeit
prettypublic.
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Especiallyifitgetslinkedto/r/bestof.Thatusuallyattractsalotofpeople.
Edit:Fuckit,I'mlinkingit.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
Yourpointsarevalid.ButIdidn'twanttocriticizehertooheavilyrightnow,
since(ifshe'stellingthetruth),isgoingthroughaterribleloss.
Asfarasverificationgoes,Isawseveralposterswhotalkedaboutastory
theyreadaboutamissionary'sdeathinOregon.Maybetheycanprovide
moreinformation.IfOPdoestakelegalactionorgoestothemedia,then
she'llbeforcedtoprovideevidence.
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[] relevantlife 13points1hourago*
Hereisamissionaryblogfromlastyear.
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoCONFIRMthestory.Incase
the"socalled"churchcontactsthismissionaryandrequestsshetakeher
blogdown,hereisascreenshotofthepost.
Also,thisobit:
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[] [deleted]1hourago
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[] Pickleburp Brokemissionrulesandsurvivedtotellaboutit. 4points2hoursago*
I'vebeenlooking,there'snothing.Ifoundalistofmissionarydeaths
fromcaraccidents,CO2poisoning,otheraccidents/issues.Sometimes
morethanonearticle.NothingaboutamissionarydyinginPortland,
Oregonmissionanytimeinthepastfiveyears.
EDIT:Didfindsomeinfo,veryinterestingthatthere'snothingfromUtah
pressonit.Maybebecausethefamilyisn'tfromUtah.Ifthisislegit,OP
shouldtakeitpublic.EventheLDSNewspageforthePortlandmission
hadnoinformation.
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[] bt2184 2points2hoursago
Thisisstartingtolooklikeahoaxpost.Ihopenot,buttherearen'tanynews
storiesverifyingthestory.
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[] relevantlife 3points1hourago
http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoconfirmthestory.
Also,thisarticle:http://www.frontiersman.com/obituaries/samantha
lierley/article_4f319f90e94911e398790019bb2963f4.html
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[] beerob81 1point2hoursago
Youseemtobepostingthisofteninhere.Almostlikeyou'reprotectingthe
church....
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago
Ifyou'lllookinmyposthistoryyou'llseeIfrequent/r/exmormonalot.
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[] beerob81 3points2hoursago
I'mjustshittingwithyou.Thispostistotallybogus.Idon'tthink
anybodywoulddenyamissionarymedicalaccessafterasurgery.
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[] laughingeconomist 4points2hoursago
Ifitmatters,someonedidprovidemewiththesistermissionary's
nameandIwasabletoverifyatleastthebasicsofthestory,so
I'mremovingmycomments.
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[] INeedFreud
1point1hourago
Sowhatyou'resayingisyou'reachurchspy.Areyouonthe
strengtheningchurchmemberscommittee?
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[] laughingeconomist 0points1hourago
I'monacommitteesosupersecretthatyou'venever
heardofit.)
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[] WyG09s8x4JM4ocPMnYMg 2points1hourago
Hellofrom/r/all
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Iwouldhappilydonatetoyourfees.
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[] childsbeardthepirate 60points3hoursago
Iwillbemorethanhappytodonatetoakickstarterfundforattorneysfeesaswell.
OPifyouseethis,andyoudecideinthefuturetopursuelegalactionmakeit
known.Wearehereforyou.Nooneshouldeverofhadtogothroughthis.
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[] Daenr 25points3hoursago
Itoowoulddonateforlegalfees
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[] dsngltn 12points2hoursago
Meto.
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[] ta9g 12points2hoursago
Methre
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[] zempter 10points2hoursago
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pleaselinktothekickstarterifyoudo.
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[] Sadsquatch 1point1hourago
Youcan'tkickstartforlegalfees.
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[] MeatCommerceAgent 1point1hourago
Metoo
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[] veryangryj 1point56minutesago
Iwouldalsoabsolutelydonate.
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[] mormonapost8 34points3hoursago*
Seconded.Thisissuchaterriblestoryandsadlyit'snotanisolatedevent.Whateverthe
officialpolicyofthechurch,missionpresident'swivestypicallyassumeadefacto
motherlyroleinthemissionfieldthatusuallyincludesoverseeinghealthproblems.I'm
awareofacaseofamissionarywhohadtoundergodoublehipreplacementsurgery
afterhismissionbecausethemissionpresident'swifecontinuallyinsistedhekeep
workingdespiteterriblepain.IfIremembercorrectly,mostofthecartilageinhiships
hasdeterioratedandhisbonesweregrindingtogetheratthejoint.Thiswasina
missionthatrequiredalotofwalking.
It'sridiculousandflatoutirresponsibleformissionpresidentsortheirwivesoranyone
whoisnotproperlytrainedtobegivingmedicaladvicetokidsthatarenotonlygiving
theirfulltimetothechurchbutpayingforit.Thechurchandindividualsshouldbeheld
accountable.
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Couldhehimselfsue,orwouldthefamilyhavetobeonboard?Soundslikethatlatter
ain'thappening
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[] AngryPurpleTeddyBear 2points2hoursago
Thereareacoupledifferentwaysawrongfuldeathsuitcouldproceedinthiscase,
dependingonthelawsofthestateinvolved.It'spossiblethatOPalonecouldbring
thesuitonbehalfofthesister'sestate.UnfortunatelyforOP,thatdecisionoften
restswiththedeceased'sheir(s)/namedexecutor,andIdoubtOP'ssisterhadawill.
Absentawill,theadministrationofthesister'sestatewillmostlikelyfalltothe
parents,anditdoesn'tsoundlikethey'llbewillingtopursuealawsuit.
Source:Amlawyer.
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[] Mynamesnotsister 1point1hourago
AmInaive,orcanhesueforlossofsisterlycompanionship?
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[] AngryPurpleTeddyBear 2points1hourago
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Again,dependsonthestateandwhichcausesofactionarerecognized,but
it'shighlyunlikely.First,manystatesdon'tevenrecognizelossofconsortium
claims.Second,amongthosethatdo,mostjustrecognizemarital
relationshipsasthebasisofaclaimasmallminorityalsorecognizeparent
childrelationships,butIcan'tthinkofasinglestateoffthetopofmyhead
thatindependentlyrecognizessiblingrelationshipsasthebasisforlossof
consortiumclaims.
Someotherstatesincludelossofconsortiumasanelementofdamages
includedinawrongfuldeathcauseofaction,butagain,thatwouldhaveto
stemfromawrongfuldeathclaimbroughtbytherepresentativeofOP's
sister'sestate,which(asIoutlinedabove)willmostlikelybeOP'sparents.
TLDRYou'renotnaive,butit'shighlyunlikelythatOPcouldindependently
bringaclaimforanylossofconsortiumwithhissister.
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[] Mynamesnotsister 1point1hourago
Thanksforanswering
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[] [deleted]2hoursago
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[] eternigator 15points2hoursago
WhenIcontactedfriendswhoservedinthePortlandmissionduringthesame
timeperiod,theysaidthattheyhadheardnothingaboutamissionaryintheir
missiondying.
IdidabitofgooglingandfoundrumorsofasistermissionaryintheVancouver,WA
missiondyingunderthesamecircumstances.TheVancouver,WAmissioncontains
Portland.SoI'mnottotallywritingoffthestorybutI'mstillnottotallybelievingit
either.
WhatI'msayingisthatlet'snotallgoafterOPandaccusethemofbeingaliar.
Nobody'sdoingthatyetbutyourcommentisrisingquickly.Thishasbeenlinkedon
r/bestofandredditlikesagoodwitchhunt.
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NooneisgoingafterOP,/u/laughingeconomistisjusturgingcaution.
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[] laughingeconomist 4points2hoursago
Iknow,Iwasoneofthefirstonespostingthoseurgesofcaution.I've
deletedthemnowthatI'vereceivedverificationofthebasicstorydetails.
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Iactuallyverymuchappreciatethecautionandskepticism,bytheway.I
don'twantyoutofeellikeyoushouldbechidedforofferingadifferent
view(especiallysinceweoftencriticizetbmsforonlylookingatonepoint
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ofview).
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[] eternigator 2points2hoursago
IsaidinmycommentthatnobodyisgoingafterOP.Yet.Theproblemis
thatcommentslikelaughingeconomist'scanquicklyleadtowitchhunts
againsttheOP.Especiallywhenametasublike/r/bestofgetsinvolved.
That'swhyI'murgingpeopletobecautiousintheotherdirectiontoo.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago
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[] eternigator 1point2hoursago
Iagreecompletely.IjustmademycommentbecauseI'veseenthissortof
situationbecomeawitchhuntagainstOP.
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[] relevantlife 1point1hourago
Hereisamissionaryblogfromlastyear.
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoCONFIRMthestory.Incasethe"so
called"churchcontactsthismissionaryandrequestsshetakeherblogdown,
hereisascreenshotofthepost.
Also,thisobit:
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[] eternigator 1point1hourago
Yep,that'sthepersonwhoIfoundtherumorsabout.ButIdon'tthinkthat
weshouldbepostinghernamehere.OPdeservessomeprivacy,inmy
opinion.
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IsthistheoneaboutArgentina?
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago
That'stheone.
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[] BibliotecaDeBabel 7points2hoursago
Iagree.Prettysurprisingthatthereisnotraceofthisdeathontheinternet.
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http://www.frontiersman.com/obituaries/samanthalierley/article_4f319f90
e94911e398790019bb2963f4.html
http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] DrAminove 2points1hourago
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
Also,thisdiscussiononanexmormonforum.
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[] veryangryj 1point51minutesago
Ugh.Thecognitivedissonanceintheseisdisgusting.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago
[deleted]
[] BibliotecaDeBabel 5points2hoursago
Ditto.Thereareplentyofwebsitesthattrackmissionarydeaths,and
consideringthiswasjustlastsummerthereisnowayitwasn'tcovered.
Unless,theconspiracytheoristinusassumesthatthechurchaskedthe
familytostayhush.
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Weshouldbeskepticalforsure,butIdon'tthinkthatdiscussingorgetting
madaboutsomethinglikethismakesuslookbad.Ifthechurchwere
transparent,wewouldn'thavetorelyonsuchunverifiedinformation.We
dealwithwhatwehave.Therealculpritisthechurchthatmakessureto
coverupallofitswarts.
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[] [deleted]2hoursago
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[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 1point2hoursago
Yeah,buttheothersideiswayworse.Thinkofallthe3nephite,
miracle,and"Iconvinced300oftheanyopposers"storieswehear
aboutallthetime.
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[] nothanks132 3points2hoursago
Pleaserepostthisasatoplevelcommenttoallowitrisetothetop.
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[] Captain_Blue_Shell 1points2hoursago
Shewassepticandadmittedintothehospitalfor2daysbeingtreatedwith
antibioticsthroughanIV.Wedidn'tknowifshewouldsurvivethatfirstnight.
Sheseemedtobedoingmuchbetteraftermedicalinterventionandherdoctors
releasedherfromthehospital.Buttheinfectionhadheldontoostrong.Within
48hoursofbeingreleasedfromthehospital,mysisterpassedawayinher
missionaryapartmentbedwhileshewasasleep.Shediedfrominfectionbecause
hermissionpresidentandhiswifewouldn'tallowhertoseeadoctorwhenshe
wasinpain.
Yeah,that'scompleteandutterBS.IfshewasinsepsisandreceivingIVantibiotics,
therewasnofreakingwayintheworldthatahospitalwouldhavelethergohome
aftertwodays.
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[] PresidentNEWSROOM 6points3hoursago
IwishIcouldupvotethisumpteentimes!
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[] Ah_Q 2points1hourago
Attorneycheckingin.
SuethefuckoutoftheChurch.NametheMPandhiswifeasdefendantsaswell.
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[] IM_A_BIG_FAT_GHOST 1point35minutesago
I'venoticedthatOPdeletedmostoftheirposts...sorryforattachingtothetop
commentbutIfeelthatIneedtosaysomething.IwasaMormonmissionaryin
JohannesburgSouthAfricain1996.Ihadamedicalemergencyandexperience
somethingverysimilartowhatOPwastalkingabout.Thechurchneedstochangetheir
standardsonhowtotreatmedicalconditionsformissionaries.Prayingaboutasuper
seriousnutinfectionisnottheanswer.Seeingachurchdoctorthreetimesandhaving
themdenyyouthemedicalattentionthatyouneedisdepressing.Iactuallybroke
missionaryprotocolsothatIcouldgetsenthome...endedupbeingrushedtosurgery
intheUnitedStatesonceIarrived.IhavepersonalexperienceinthisandIwouldbe
happytoansweranybody'squestionsontheissue.
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[] Raveo 2points1hourago
Alawsuitagainstwhat?Hissisterwasfreetogotothehospitalatanytimeshe
pleased.Whatexactlywouldhesuethemfor?
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Ithinkyou'reunderestimatingjusthowbrainwashedmissionariesare.Theyget
"obedience"drilledintotheirheadsconstantly.Atsomepoint,theytrusttheir
leadersmorethanthemselves,andtheytreatdoubtlikeit'saweakness(asin,you
don'thaveenoughfaith).Ifyou'veservedamission,youshouldknowwhatthisis
like.Ifyouhaven't,takeitfromareturnedmissionary:missionariesare
brainwashedinthetruestsenseoftheword.
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[] hamsalad 1point1hourago
Imaginethisscenario:aWalmartemployeeexperiencessharp,excruciatingpainin
hisabdomen.Hetellshissupervisorthatheneedstogotothehospital.His
supervisordeniestherequestandtellshimtogotothehospitalattheendofhis
shift.Theemployeediesofsepsisasaresultofacuteappendicitis.
Theemployeecertainlycouldhaveleftearlyforthehospital,butdidn'tduetofear
oflosinghisjob.Thiswouldalmostcertainlyresultinamultimilliondollar
settlement.Onethingeverymanagerofeverystripelearns:ifyouexerciseyour
authority,youowntheconsequences.
Ofcourse,thisisanunrealisticscenariobecauseevenaWalmartsupervisorknows
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
youdon'tdenysickpeoplemedicalattention.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] tennder 274points5hoursago
Honestly,IwouldgotoCaliforniaandgetGloriaAllred.GetasmuchPRandbuzzaboutthe
storyaspossible.thechurchmayhaveveryskilled,polished,expensiveattorneysatKirton
McConkie,buttheirweakspotisbadpublicity.Justmakeitacircuswithmediaeventsand
newstoriesandinternettrafficandtheywouldbuckleandsettleoutofcourtASAP.
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Peoplebashher,butmanyyearsagosheproBonohelpedmymotherkeepherjob
whenheremployertriedtoFireherforbeingpregnantwithme.Allittookwasa
droppinghercardonthedesksayingnexttimewearebringingourlawyer.
I'vegotaprettysoftspotforher.
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[] Latin_Lover 75points4hoursago
It'snotaboutsettlingoraboutmoney!That'swhatiwouldliketothinkopisthinking.
Themoneyshouldbethelastthinginmind.Whatismoreimoprtantistoshowthe
worldhowthechurchnegletsit'smissionary'sandmembersandpeopleingeneral.This
shouldturnintosomethingmore,heshoulddoitforhissisterandpeaceofmind!
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[] tennder 25points4hoursago
thepostaskediftheyshouldpursuelegalaction.Legalactionwillgetmessyand
expensivequickwiththechurch.Asidefromsheddinglightonthestoryand
honoringthesisterthatdiedneedlessly,itwillhelpothersbeingpressuredinto
goingorfeeltheirchildwantstogowithoutacquittedassurancethattheywouldbe
takencaredforwhilethere.IFthelegalcasedoesitsjobthanyes,thechurchwill
settleASAPcausetheyknowtheyarebeingshowninahorriblelighttheycant
refute.Itsnotaboutthemoney,correct.Butthequestionwasaboutlegalavenues
andthoseendquicklywithsettlementifthisisdonecorrectly.
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[] Latin_Lover 14points4hoursago
Ofcoursetakinganyactionagainstahugecorperationhasit'sfinancialcost,
althoughifenoughevidenceispresentedanyattorneywouldpickthecaseup
andathirdpartywouldgetinvolvedtopayoffwhilethecaseissettled.Ithink
itwouldbetakencarebythelawyer,anyonecanseethatthepresidentwasat
faultitshouldn'tbehardtomakeacase,althoughmakingtheother
missionary'scomecleanaboutthewholedealcouldprovedifficult.thoughthe
medicalfacilitywereshewastreatedshouldhaverecordsaboutherconditions
andtheyareforcedtogiveupmedicalinformationifitissoneededforcourt,it
shouldn'tbehardtoconvencethedoctortostandincourtandpresenthis
findings,itshouldbeeasyforhimtoshowcontinuedneglet,aswellasi'am
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
awarethatopsaidhehademail'sregardingherandhercontinuedsituation.
Thiscaseshouldbeeasytofileandgetasettlement,thethingisnowishowop
willgoaboutit.Itwillcostmoney,butthereareorganizationsthatcanhelp
withthatwhilethecaseissettledandtomeitseemsthatophasthiscase,it's
uptohimandhisfamilytoseewhatactionstheytakeifany.youarecorrect
regardingyourconcerns!
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Butpartofthesettlementcouldbechangingprocedurestohaveadoctoror
registerednursehotlineformissionaries,withthatpersonmakingtreatment
authorizationsratherthanuntrainedMPwives.
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[] why_the_lies 35points4hoursago
Yes,andnotjustneglect,butencouragingnaiveobedience,makingonebelievethat
divinewill,orleadership'inspiration',trumpsonesownreasoning.ThefactthatOPs
momcouldsaymaybeitwasGodswillisevidenceofthattypeof'faith'.
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Precisely,andit'sthistypeof"faith"thatgetsinnocentpeoplekilled.
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[] Echo1883
givegold
23points3hoursago
ThatswhyyoudemandWAYtoomuchtosettle.Thatwaytheyareforcedtoeither
paysomestupidamountofmoney(imtalking500million)ortheyareforcedtogo
tocourt.Youcanmakeitsothattheycan'tsettlesinceitsimplytoomuchmoney,
andthenyougettoparadeitaroundthecourtsforaslongaspossiblewhilethe
mediahasahaydaywithit.
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[] takatori 7points3hoursago
Heyday,actuallybutnowIwonderwherethewordcamefrom...
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[] Echo1883
4points3hoursago
Apparentlyitsfrombackinlikethe1500'sanditwasoriginally"heyda"
whichwasanexclamationofsurpriseorhappiness.Justgoogled"heyday
etymology"...lol
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[] AlphaEnder 0points2hoursago
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heyday
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[] graspingreality 28points4hoursago
This.IgotintoatusslewithoneoftheforprofitarmsofthechurchonceandimpliedI
mightgopublicwithourdispute.IgotacallfromaKMlawyerandwesettledthings
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
withinafewminutes.Theyabsolutelydonotwantbadpublicity.
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[] HANEZ 1point2hoursago
Whathappened?
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[] morenfin 1point1hourago
notop,butI'dassumetheyhadhimsignanNDAaspartofthesettlement.I'd
beverysurprisediftheydidn't.
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Youcanbetyourassthiswon'tbeonthelocalksl.comsitebecausethisisn't"faith
promoting".
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[] sethra007 139points5hoursago
Whenmyhardworkingsisterbegantohavepaininhermouthshesoughtpermission
toseeadoctorthroughthemissionpresident'swife.Thisisworldwide
protocolformissionaries.Youaren'tsupposedtoseekmedicalhelpwithout
permissionfromyourmissionpresident.
NeverMohere.First,I'mhorrifiedonyourbehalf,andsovery,verysorryforyoursisterand
thelossyourfamilyisdealingwith.Myheartgoesouttoallofyouandyouhavemy
deepestcondolences.
Now:
Whattheactualfuck?Why?!Whatpossiblereasoncouldtheyhaveforhavingsucharule?!
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Missionariesgoonthechurch'shealthinsurance,sovisitsmustbeapprovedtobe
covered.Italsoactsasafiltertopreventoveruse,andI'msurethere'sfinancial
pressuretokeepuselow.
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[] sethra007 60points4hoursago
Missionariesgoonthechurch'shealthinsurance...andI'msurethere'sfinancial
pressuretokeepuselow.
Ijustfeltmystomachtwistinknots....
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Theyreallywanttoprotecttheirowninvestments.Missionariesaresometimes
deniedtoevengoonmissionsiftheyaretoooverweightorhavecertainmedical
conditions.
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[] Echo1883
givegold
21points3hoursago
investments
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[] Echo1883
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6points3hoursago
AndpeoplesometimesaskwhyIbelievetheCOLDSisacult....Theypullsome
reallyfuckedupshitwithmissionaries.Lotsofotherstufftoo,butmissionaries
seemtogetittheworst.
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[] filologo 1point2hoursago
IrememberreadingsomestoriesaboutpeoplewholefttheUnification
ChurchandthinkingabouthowsimilartheyweretomostofthethingsI
wentthroughonmymission.Asanormalmembermyexperiencescouldn't
havebeenmoredifferent,butasamissionaryitwasshockinghowclosethey
were.
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[] kolobs_bitch 24points2hoursago
Canconfirm.HadtohavemyappendixremovedwhileonamissioninEurope.After
afewweeks,missionprezsentmetoanob/gynwhosaidIjustneededtotake
somehormones.Afterthreemoreweeks(ofhorrendouspain),wenttoseea
differentdoctor.Wasadmittedtothehospitalthatnightandoperatedon
immediately.Thesurgeonsaidmyentireinsideswereinfected.Parentswerenever
toldaboutituntilIcalledthembecauseIwasn'tgettingbetter.Areaprezrefused
tosendmehometoseeadoctoruntilmyparentsthreatenedhim.Itwasthefirst
andonlytimemyparentstookmysideagainstsomeoneinthechurch.Theywere
scaredformylife.Frankly,Iwastoo.ButIdidfinallygetbetter.Itjusttook
monthsinsteadofweeks.
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[] kolobs_bitch 17points2hoursago
AlsostatesidedoctorsaidImightnotbeabletohavechildrenafterwhathad
happenedtomyinsides.Thankfully,hewaswrong.
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[] L0neKitsune 1point1hourago
Thisabsolutelyterrifiesmebecausemyappendixblew3monthafterIwas
supposedtoleaveformymission.LuckilyIdecidedtonotgoonmymissionand
stoppedgoingtochurchinstead.
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[] thelinchpin 15points4hoursago
InEurope,wepaidcashformissionaryhealthexpensesthensentMissionaryMedical
thebill,whowouldthenbillthemissionary'sinsurancecompany.Missionaries
withoutmedicalinsurancereceivedthecaretheyneededacutelybutweresent
homeiftherewasanythingthatwouldrequiremorechroniccare.
Inthemissionoffice,the"sacredtithingfunds"werespentlikeabottomlesswallet.
Becausewheneverweneededmoremoney,wejustrequestedmoremoney,and
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we'dgetit.
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[] kolobs_bitch 10points2hoursago
Copyingmycommentfromabove.IservedamissioninEurope197980.Hadto
havemyappendixremovedduringthattime.Afterafewweeksofinitialpain,
missionprezsentmetoanob/gynwhosaidIjustneededtotakesome
hormones.Afterthreemoreweeks(ofhorrendouspain),wenttoseeadifferent
doctor.Wasadmittedtothehospitalthatnightandoperatedonimmediately.
Thesurgeonsaidmyentireinsideswereinfected.Parentswerenevertoldabout
ituntilIcalledthembecauseIwasn'tgettingbetter.Areaprezrefusedtosend
mehometoseeadoctoruntilmyparentsthreatenedhim.Itwasthefirstand
onlytimemyparentstookmysideagainstsomeoneinthechurch.Theywere
scaredformylife.Frankly,Iwastoo.ButIdidfinallygetbetter.Itjusttook
monthsinsteadofweeks.
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Onmymisison,theofficeeldersbeforemedidthattoo.Suddenlythemission
wasauditedbysaltlake,andtheywerenolongerofficeelders.
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[] dsngltn 24points4hoursago*
HereisacommentbyaTBMwhoistryingtotreadcarefullywhileexpressingsomeof
hisconcernswithhowthechurchprovideshealthcareforitsmissionaries.
Scrolldownto"HealthCareForMissionaries:UsuallyGreat,ButSomeImprovement
MayBeNeeded".
Afewnotablequotes:
Inasecondandmoreseriouscase,amissionary'srepeatedrequeststoseeadoctor
wereallegedlydeniedbyawellmeaningmissionpresident'swife.Shethoughtthe
painsinhissidemightbeduetoinadequatefluidsandrecommendeddrinkingwater
orGatorade.Hehadappendicitis.Fortunately,themissionaryisOKnow,butI
understandthathewasworriedandunsatisfiedwiththerecommendationfromthe
missionmom.Hishealthcouldhavebeenprotectedbetterbymakingiteasiertosee
adoctor.
And
Themission'sscreenershadbelievedtheinjurytobeminorandwouldnotauthorize
avisittoaphysician,evenafteracoupleofconcernedlocalmemberscalledvarious
partiestointervenefortheelder.However,Xraysconfirmedthatthemissionary's
injurywasmoreseriousthanthemissionpresident'swifeandaremoteChurch
doctorhadrecognized,andconfirmedthatahigherlevelofcarewasneeded.Infact,
themissionarywillrequiresurgery(relativelyminor,fortunately).
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[] Tyopa 21points3hoursago
WhyonGod'sgreenearthisaMissonpresident'swifegivingdiagnosis'?Hellnurses
ingeneralcan'tevengivediagnosis',andiftheydoandgetitwrongtheygettheir
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
assessuedoff.
Idaresaythere'saseriousproblemwithareligionwhentheycaremoreabouttheir
quarterlystatementthanhumanlives.
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[] dsngltn 9points3hoursago
Ithinkthisisaprettystandardoperatingprocedurethoughoutthechurch.The
sickmissionarytalkstotheMP'swifeandshepassesthatinfoontoachurch
doctorforarecommendation.
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[] Tyopa 2points1hourago
Andwhythatisastandardprocedureconfoundsme.Likehavingamissional
doctorcarefortherestofmissionariessoundsinfinitelysmarter.
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[] INeedFreud
2points1hourago
Hashtagdeathpanels
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[] dsngltn 54points4hoursago*
It's100%afinanciallymotivatedpolicy.Thechurchisselfinsuredsoanymedical
expensesincurredbymissionariesarepaidbythechurch.Thereweremanycaseson
mymissionwheremissionariesweretoldtojusttakeoverthecountermedicationsto
dealwithproblemstheyshouldbeseeingsdoctorover.
OneofmanyexamplesIcanthinkofwasanelderwhowastakingaboxofImodiumAD
adayduetoconstantdiarrheaandpainfulcrampingthatlastedformonths.Thiswasa
statesidemissionsothiswasnotsomebughepickedupinaforeigncountry
somethingwaswrongwithhim.HewasalwaysonthephonewiththeMission
President'swifeaskingforpermissiontogotoadoctor,buttheanswerwasalwaysno.I
guaranteeyouthatOP'sstoryisnottheonlyexampleofsomeonedyingwhileontheir
missionduetothechurchworryingmoreaboutexpensesthanmissionaries.
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[] sethra007 29points4hoursago
It's100%afinanciallymotivatedpolicy.Thechurchisselfinsuredsoany
medicalexpensesincurredbymissionariesarepaidbythechurch.Therewere
manycasesonmymissionwheremissionariesweretoldtojusttakeoverthe
countermedicationstodealwithproblemstheyshouldbeseeingsdoctorover...
IguaranteeyouthatOP'sstoryisnottheonlyexampleofsomeonedyingwhile
ontheirmissionduetothechurchworryingmoreaboutexpensesthantheyare
missionaries.
I'mspeechless.I'mabsolutelyspeechless.
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[] desertrat22 27points4hoursago
AsIunderstand,ifthemissionaryhasfamilycoverage,theyremainunderthat
privatecoverage,inwhichcasemedicalneedsandappointmentsarenoneofthe
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
church'sdamnbusinessIMO.
Ifthemissionaryisuninsured,thentheywouldfallunderthechurchinsurance.
Theproblemhereisthatwehaveadults(missionaries)beingtreatedlike
kindergartnersaskingforpermissiontogotakealeak.
Sohorriblywrongandterriblytragicinthissituation.
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[] Paradox760 7points3hoursago
Myfamilyhadverygoodmedicalcoverage.BeforeIleftformymission,my
bishoptoldmyMomtotakemeoffsoIcould"receivecareandinstructionunder
theadvisementoftheChurch."It'salsofree,soIthinklotsofpeopleopttouse
Churchinsurance.
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[] GeneticsGuy 1point38minutesago
Thisisweird,asIwentonmymissionandjusthaddoubleinsurance
coverage.Nooneevertoldmyfamilyormyselftodiscontinuemyinsurance.
Thereissuchathinghashavingdoublecoverage.Verycommon.I'venever
heardofanyonebeingtoldtocanceltheircoverageandjusthaveone?
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[] Paradox760 14points3hoursago
Icanabsolutelyconfirmthis.Ihadseveralmedicalproblemsonmymission,andI
oftenhadtroublegettingpermissiontoseeadoctor.Mymissionpresident'swife
explicitlytoldmethatthechurchinstructedthemtopreventdoctorsvisitsunless
absolutelynecessaryinordertokeepcostsdown.
Icanunderstandalargeorganizationtryingtopreventcoststhatarecompletely
frivolous.However,theyhaveputthedecisionmakingpowerinthehandsofpeople
whodonothavethemedicalknowledgerequiredtomakesuchdecisions.My
missionpresident'swifedemonstratedthisrepeatedly.Shewouldfrequentlymake
ludicrousassumptionsaboutmymedicalconditions.
Atonepointmycompanionreceivedaseriousheadwound.Bloodwasliterally
pouringoutofhishead,andwewereunabletostiflethebleeding.Hesoonbecame
lightheaded,andthenbeganblackingout.Icalledmypresident'swifetoinformher
thatIwastakinghimtotheER.Shetoldmenottogo.Shetoldmethathead
woundsusuallybleedalot,andthatitwasnothingtoworryabout.IinsistedthatI
wastakinghimtothehospital,andtoldherthatshehadbetterhavetheinsurance
sidetakencareof.Guesswhat?Itturnedouttobeaseriousinjury!Shelater
thankedmefordisregardingherandtakingcareofhim.
Peoplelikethisshouldnotberesponsibleforthesedecisions.Beingableto
memorizeafewmedicalfactsisnotareasonablequalification.Moreimportantly,
thereisnoguaranteethatthepeopleinthesepositionsarecapableofmaking
importantdecisionsforothers.Thisisespeciallytruewhentheyarepressuredby
theirleaderstosavemoneyforthechurch.
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[] dsngltn 8points3hoursago
TheproblemisexacerbatedduetothefactthatMormonsaretaughtfrom
infancytobeobedienttochurchleaders.It'snotlikeannormaljobwhere
employeeshavesomeabilitytopressuremanagementtoprovidebetterhealth
care.Missionaries(includingmewhenIwasone)feltitwasasintoactively
challengechurchleaders.
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[] articulett 1point1hourago
Plusthere'sthisideathat"God"iswatchingoutforyou...andsoyouhaveto
have"faith"orelsehemightnothelpyouout.Ifyoudon'tgetbetterit's
yourfaultfornothavingenough"faith".
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[] gilbertgrappa 1point1hourago
Coloncancer?Crohn'sdisease?
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[] dsngltn 1point1hourago
Idon'tknow.Heneversawadoctorthenwenthomeseveralmonthslater.I
didn'tstayintouchwithhim.
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[] hissho1 14points4hoursago
Compliance.Obediencemakesforgoodcompliantrobotsoldiers.
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[] onlythecosmos
givegold
3points3hoursago
Tosavemoney
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[] HANEZ 2points2hoursago
Why?Answer:$$$$
Everythingneedsapprovalbythechurchleadership.Outoftoiletpaperandneedtogo
tothestore,butitsnotyour"preparationday",thatneedstobeapproved.Ofcourse
youwillbetalkedtoaboutnotusingyourhalfoffdaytogetthingsdone.
Ioncegotaningrowntoenail.Prettycommonformissionaries.Walkingalldayindress
shoeswilldothat.Hadtobe"missionapproved".Doctorwasluckilyamember,and
mostlikelygivingthechurchadiscount.AnywaysthedochadconnectionsandIdidn't
havetowaitforafollowupforaprocedure.
Werodeourbikeshome.Yes,that'sright,afterafootprocedurebikedhomewithafull
bandageonmyfoot.Foolishright?Well,Iwasyoungandnaive,ofcoursenoone
offeredtohelp.Isureashelldidn'thaveenoughmoneytotakeabus.Ourallowance
was$120amonthintheearly2000's.
Iwassupposetorestforaweek,butIstartedworkingwithinadayortwo.Yourare
specificallytaughtthatifyouwantbaptisms/conversionsyouneedtobefaithful,
obedientandworkhard.Jesuscantblessyouwithbaptismsifyoudon'twork.Peoples
salvationareonyourhands.That'sahugeresponsibilityforayoungperson.
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Also,alittleofftopic.Ialsogotintoacaraccidentwhileonthemission.Wewere
specificallytrainedtoremoveournametagsaftercaraccidents.Wedidn'twantpeople
totakeadvantageofthesituationandthinkthechurchhadmoneyandtakethemto
court.
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[] GeneticsGuy 1point40minutesago
Ifthisistrue,thisisprettynegligent.AsaformerMormonmissionary,thisisreally
weirdthough.Ifweneededmedicalattentionweneverneededtoseekpermission,we
wentandgotit.Usuallythismeantcallingandinformingthemweneededmedical
attentiononthewayorafterthefact,butweneverhadtocallandgetpermission.
I'dalsoliketopointoutthatitisrequiredtotakecareofanyseriousdentalworkbefore
youcanevengetapprovedforamission.Thismeansyouneedadentistthatclearsyou
andsaysyouwillnotneedanyDentalworkwhileyouareonyourmission.Thus,many
peopleitisoftenarequirementtogetwisdomteethremovedbeforeamission.Ifthere
wereanymoreseriousdentalissuesthatrequiredhertogetmuchneededdental
surgery,thiswouldhavebeenfairlyeasytosee.Iamseriousaboutthisthough,the
churchwillnotapproveyoutogoonamissionwithabillofdentalhealthwith
documentationfromadentistthatyouDONOTNEEDandwillnotneedanyanytimein
thenextcoupleofyears.So,thisstorykindofraisesaweirdredflagforme...CanOP
explainhowshewasapprovedtogo?
Also,whywouldyouneedtoaskthemissionpresident'swifeforpermissiontoseea
doctor?Thatisjustweird...Attheendoftheday,youlistentothemissionpresident
andonlythemissionpresident,notthemissionpresident'swife,assheisnotthe
missionpresident.Oftenshe'llchatandtalkandgiveadviceandshareherpersonal
feelingsandtestimony,butshemakeszerodecisionsregardingwhattodowithinthe
mission.Thisisjusthowitislaidout.ThatiswhyIfinditreallyweirdthatshewould
becallingthemissionpresident'swife.IsupposeitCOULDbesomethingweirdlikethe
missionpresidentthoughthewasbeingnicebylettingthefemalemissionarieschat
withhiswifeinplaceofhimforotherissues?Idon'tknow...
Also,thisstoryseemskindofsketchythateventhoughshemayhaveseemedtohave
beendoingbetter,shewasn'tandthehospitalreleasedher.Really?Sincewhendo
hospitalsofferadischargebeforecheckingelevatedwhitebloodcelllevelsandother
screensandwhentheyseethembeingtoohigh,whichtheywouldhavehere,they
wouldnothavereleasedher?
Look,maybethisstoryistrue,andifitIStrue,absolutelyyoushouldtakelegalaction,
andthisiscomingfromaMormonformermissionary.But,Iamalsosayingthatasa
formermissionary,thereseemstobealotofweirdthingsaboutthisstorythatdon't
makealotofsense.CanOPlinkanarticlementioningthemissionariesdeath?InSalt
LakeCity,theofficialchurchnewspublishesanyandalldeathsthatoccurfrompeople
whilstservingontheirmissions.I'dassumeyoucouldfindlocalnewsarticlestoo.But,I
amstrugglingtofindanynewsatallaboutanymissionarydeathsrelatingtothisgirl.
ThereWASasistermissionarykilledrecently,in2015,justearlyMarchthatdiedofan
E.ColiinfectioninArgentina.But,nothingaboutthisgirl...Icheckedback3yearsof
Missionarydeathrecords,andevensearchedlocalnewsinOregonwherethis
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supposedlyhappened,butIcan'tfindanything.
Iamkeepinganopenmind,soifOPcanlinksomethingvalidatingthisthenIwill
believeit,butIcan'tfindanything...
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] questionr 93points5hoursago
WehadanElderalmostgoblindinoneeyebecausethemissionofficewouldn'tlethimgo
toacitytoseeaspecialist.Fordayshewasinagonizingpainwhilethemissionnurse
reassuredusthattheeyedropssherecommendedwouldwork.Finally,westuckhimona
busandcalledthemissionofficeandjustsaid,"He'scoming.Findarealdoctor."Theydid
findadoctor,anditwasagoodthing.Theeyedropsthemissionnursewere
recommendingwereactuallymakingthemissionary'seyesworse,andhewouldhavegone
blindinoneeyeifwehadn'tdisobeyedthemissionrules.
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[] outofthewoods 40points3hoursago
Lotsofstoriesofmissionariesnotgettingmedicalhelpatsickrms.com
I'mthinkingofwritingupmyownstorytoputonthereaswell.
Sadtothinkthatmissionariesareactuallydyingsothechurchcansaveabitodd
money.
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[] TomLambe 1point1hourago
Sadbutnotsurprising.
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[] ReasonIsMyReligion 1point1hourago
Theeyedropswereprobablyessentialoils.
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IamnotalawyerbutIwonderifyouhavegroundsforacivilnegligencesuit.
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[] ReturnAndReport 35points3hoursago
Idon'tknow.I'mnotalegalscholarmyself,butshewasanadultandwasn'tunder
significantduressnottogotoadoctor.Shejusttooksomeone'scounselnotto.Not
surethere'sagreatcasehere.
Edit:Fortherecord,Ithinkit'sfuckedupbeyondcomprehensionthattheytoldhernot
togotoadoctor.ButI'mjustsayinginnotsurethere'sacasefornegligence.They
aren'therguardians.
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[] zqwefty 26points3hoursago
Eh,Iwouldarguethat20yearsofindoctrinationandbrainwashingconstitutes
duress.
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[] ReasonIsMyReligion 3points1hourago
Goodluckprovingthatincourtthough.That'sallthatmattersfromalegal
standpoint.
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[] Snarfthedstroyer 4points2hoursago
Nothardly.Voluntarilystayinginandadheringtotherulesofareligionisinno
wayanythingthatgetscloseto"duress."Ifthisstoryistrueandaccurate,it
comesdowntooneadult,whowasfreetogotoadoctororleavealtogetherat
anytimeshewantedwithnothreatatalloverherchoosingtofollowtherules
shevolunteeredtooperateunder.It'stoobadshedied,but"thepresident'swife
killedmysister"isbeyondhyperbole.OP'ssisterchosetoignorehermedical
problemuntilitwastoolate.That'snoone'sfaultbutherown.Sorryifthat's
cold.
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[] zqwefty 3points1hourago
Idon'tthinkitwouldholdupincourt,butwhenyou'relivinginthat
situationitfeelsasthoughyouareunderduress,especiallyifshehadnever
questionedherfaithinthepast.
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[] taco_roco 1point1hourago
Iguessthemostimportantthingthenistoinvestigatethepolicies
themselves.
Ifthepeoplewho'employ'you(isthattheproperwaytowordit?)require
youtoseekpermissionbeforeactuallygettinghelp,andthesearethepeople
whocoveryourhealthinsuranceinthefirstplace,theremightbesomething
there.
Andontheothersideofthat,ifshehadgonewithouttheirpermission,
wouldtheyhaverefusedtosupportsinceshe'broketherules'?
FromaallegedlylegaldefinitionIfound
Duressalsoexistswhereapersoniscoercedbythewrongfulconductor
threatofanothertoenterintoacontractundercircumstancesthat
deprivetheindividualofhisorhervolition.
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[] Nick12506 2points1hourago
Voluntarily
Iwouldn'tsaythefirst18yearsoftheindoctrinationwerevoluntary.
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[] lightQuantum 10points2hoursago
I'dsayshecertainlywasundersignificantduressnottogotoadoctor.The
missionaryhandbooktherulesdictatingallofthesemissionaries'actionsonpage
50states:
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"Ifyouneedmedicalcare,callyourmissionpresidentimmediately.Hewillknow
wherethebestmedicalcarecanbeobtained.Visitstoaphysicianorotherhealth
careprofessionalshouldbeauthorizedinadvancebyyourmissionpresidentorhis
representative."
Whenmissionariesaccepttheircallings,it'sprettymuchacontracttofollowthe
rules.
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[] TomLambe 2points1hourago
Soarewethinkingcertaindoctorshavedealswithmissionarypresidents?
"I'llcutyouacheckifyousendallyoursick/injuredmissionariesmyway."
"Okaysure,I'llwriteinthehandbookthattheyhavetoaskmewhichdoctorto
see."
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TheyusuallytrytogetanLDSdoctortoperformtheserviceatadiscount(or
forfree).Isawthisnumeroustimesonmymission.Oneofmycompanions
wasgivenfreedentalcarebyamormondentist.Isawamormon
chiropractorwhodidn'tcharge.Itappearsasthoughtheytrytodothisin
ordertolowertheexpendituresoutoftheirownpockets.
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[] AngryPurpleTeddyBear 3points2hoursago
Lawyerherewoulddependonwherethisalltookplace.Therearedefinitelysome
stateswithlegalprecedentmorefriendlytowardsthechurchininstanceslikethis,
andothersthatgiveafairamountofweighttothereligiousauthorityexerted.
BasedonwhatIknowoflawyersandplaintiffswhohavegoneupagainstthe
Mormonchurch,they'llfightyoutoothandnail,andthey'vegotwaymoreresources
thananyindividualfamily.IfOP'sfamilybroughtasuit,Ibetthechurchcould
comeupwithaprettysignificantargumentthatthemajorityofthefaultlaywith
OP'ssisterfornotchoosingtojustexerciseherfreewillandgotothedoctor.The
churchwillthenlowballasettlementofferwithanNDAandthenburyOP'sfamilyin
legalfeesuntilslightlyraisingthesettlementoffersothatOP'sfamilyfeelslikeit'sa
relieftojustbedonewiththewholeaffair.OP'sfamilywillwalkawayfromyearsof
emotionalstrifewitharelativepittance,andit'llbeabigquestionmarkasto
whetherit'llactuallyhavebeenworthit.
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[] IamGrimReefer 1point1hourago
theirbesthopeisprobablyanoutofcourtsettlement.
don'tforgethermothertoldhernottoseethedoctor,soshecouldbecomeaco
defendant.situationisfucked.
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[] taco_roco 1point1hourago
JustrepostingthisherebutIdidfindadefinitionthatmaysupportdurress
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Duressalsoexistswhereapersoniscoercedbythewrongfulconductorthreatof
anothertoenterintoacontractundercircumstancesthatdeprivetheindividual
ofhisorhervolition.
SoIguessitdependsonhowcontractisdefinedandhowtheconsequenceof
breakingtherule/policyareseenbytheCourt.
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[] memecompoop 2points1hourago
I'dsaytheyhaveasuitagainstthedoctor/hospitalaswell.Youdon'treleaseaseptic
patientaftertwodays.
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[] Ah_Q 2points1hourago
Lawyerhere.Thisneedstobealawsuit.
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[] laughingeconomist 59points2hoursago*
Edit:Ican'tverifyallofOP'sstory,butatleastthebasicdetailsappeartobecorrect.
1)Themissionisdifferent.
2)Sistermissionarydiddielastsummeraftercomplicationsofthesamesurgery,itwas
kepthushhushandotherthanafewmentionsonmissionaryblogs,therearenomore
details.
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[] filologo 8points2hoursago
Yeah,youareright.Weshouldbeabitskepticaluntilwehavemoreproof.
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[] Aftunnels 12points2hoursago*
Iftrue,thesituationasdescribedbyOPisreallyawfulandtheyhavemycondolences.
Havingsaidthat,Idoagreewithyou.Weneedtotreadlightlyuntilthisisverifiedto
somedegree.
Edit:Lookslikeitmayhavebeenverifiedtosomedegree.Themissionisn'tinPortland,
butisnearby.Reallysad.
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Agreed.
Manyofushereareawareofthepolicy.Manyofushavesufferedduetothispolicy.But
justbecausethestoryisplausible,doesn'tmeanitactuallyhappened.
IfrealIhavenothingbutsympathyfortheOP.ButIdohavedoubtsaboutwhether
thisactuallyhappenedornot.
OPIfyouareunwillingtoprovideanykindofidentifyinginformationtothesubasa
whole,couldIrecommendcontactingtheModsoratrustedpowerposterlike
/u/Mythrinandprovidingthistothem?
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ThoughtIwouldpostthetextfromtheblogincaseforsomereasonitgottaken
down
ThereisNoSuchThingastheEnd
ItissohardtoexpressthewayIfeelatthismoment.Acoupleofdaysagowe
receivednewsthataSisterinourmissionwasinthehospitalbecauseofaninfection
fromarootcanal.Shehadneverbeenmycompanionbutwehadmetandbecome
goodfriends.Thenextdaywehadaspecializedsistertrainingandshewas
supposedtobedischargedfromthehospitalandpossiblymakeittopartofthe
meeting.HoweveratlunchtimewereceivedthenewsthatthisdearSisterwasno
longerwithusandshehadpasson.
...Ididn'tbelieveitasfirst,Ithoughtsomeonewasplayingajoke.Slowlyyetsurely
therealitystruck.Mydearfriend,SisterXXXXXXXhasmovedon.Thenextcouple
ofhourswereablur,betweentears,hugs,singingandtestimoniesthespiritwasso
strong,comfortingandsupportingmeinthishourofneed.Goddoesnotdo
random.InthosefewhoursspentamongtheotherSisters,IcouldfeelmySaviors
armsaroundmeasIstruggledtocomprehendwhatreallyhadjusthappened.Ialso
learnsomeveryimportantthingsthatIknew,butnowIreallyknow.
"OurHeavenlyFather...knowsthatwelearnandgrowandbecomestrongeraswe
faceandsurvivethetrailsthroughwhichwemustpass."PresidentMonson
ThenewswereceivedyesterdayhastobeoneofthebiggesttrialIhavefacedout
hereonmymission.Myeyeshavebeenopenedtotherealityoflife,andalsotheto
enablingpowerofChristatonement.BecauseofHim,thereisnosuchthingasthe
end.Ourlovedonesmayhavepassedon,butthisisnotthelasttimethatwewill
seethem.Christbrokethebandsofdeathandwewilloneagainbereunitedwith
thosethatweloveandmiss.Alsoweareneveralone.Christhaspromisedus,"Iwill
notfailthee,norforsakethee"andIknowthatHestandsbyHispromises.
Christnotonlysufferedforoursins,butHealsosufferedforourinfirmities.Orour
pains,oursorrows,ourhurt,whateveritisthatwehavefelt,arefeeling,orwill
eventuallyfeel.Hehasbeenthroughitbefore.HecanholdusinHisarmsand
comfortusinthesetimesofneed.IknowthisistruebecauseIhavefeltit.
YesterdaywhenIneededHim,Hewasthere.Throughtheactionsofsomany
differentSistersIwascomfortedandstrengthened.
"Andhewilltakeuponhimdeath,thathemayloosethebandsofdeathwhichbind
hispeopleandhewilltakeuponhimtheirinfirmities,thathisbowelsmaybefilled
withmercy,accordingtothefleshhowtosuccorhispeopleaccordingtotheir
infirmities."Alma7:12
Christlives!IknowthatHelivesandthatHeisthereforeachandeveryoneofus.I
feltHislovingembraceyesterdaymultipletimes.Ourtimesissoshorthereonthis
earth.Soremember"Bealittlekinder,holdyourlovedonesalittlecloser,tellthem
youlovethemmoreoften,donottakeforgrantedthetimeyouhave,remember
contentionisuseless,committodoallyoucantodaytofollowJesusChrist"because
weneverknowhowmuchtimewereallyhave.
WithLove,
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SisterXXXXXX
PostedbyXXXXXXXXat4:42PMWednesday,May28,2014Nocomments:
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago
It'sprobablyagoodideatopostthetextbecausetheblogmaycrashwithall
thistraffic,butIthinkitwouldbekindertoredactthenames.OPprobablyhad
herreasonsfornotprovidingthespecificlocationandobituarylinketc(ifitwere
me,thosereasonswouldincludenotwantingtohavemynameoutedonreddit
whileIwassimplyaskingforadviceonalegalquestion).
Respectfully,Ithinkyoushouldconsiderredactingthenamesuntilsuchtimeas
OPdecidestodeclarehersister'sname.
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HiThere
Itakeyourpointandhavemodifiedmycommentaccordingly.
Itseemsthepostitselfhasbeendeleted,butIhavestillmadethechanges
sothatanyoneinmycommenthistorywon'tseeit,howeverunlikely.
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 1point24minutesago
Thanks,Iappreciateyourvalidationofmyopinionverymuch.:)
Unfortunatelythewholethingseemstohavespunoutofcontrol,
probablywaybeyondwhatOPwasexpecting.Shedeletedhertwitter
accountandIsuspectshe'lltakeastepbackfromsocialmediaingeneral
becauseit'sprettyeasytofindher.
Ireallyhopeshe'sokay.Thistragiceventwasbadenough,butto
accidentallydoxxyourselfonlinebyprovidingsearchableinformation
beforeyou'reready...well...Ireallyhopeshefeelssafeconfidinginher
familytogetthroughthis,andthenhopefullyalawsuitwillbringsome
closureforallofthem.
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[] laughingeconomist 3points2hoursago*
Iagreecompletely,andifOPprovidestheverificationtothemodsthenIwouldbe
morethanhappytoremoveallofmycommentsonthisthread.
Edit:Verificationwasfound.
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[] tyler611 4points2hoursago
Ihaveaclosefriendservingtherenow.Iwillaskherifsomeonediedrecently.
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[] laughingeconomist 3points2hoursago
Someonealreadyprovidedmewithsomeevidenceithappenedinadifferent
missionthantheonethatOPstated,butitappearstohavehappened.
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[] tyler611 2points2hoursago
Goodtoknow!Thankyou.
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3points2hoursago
Thisdefinitelyneedstobehigher.Tragedyiftruebutlet'snotputthecartbeforethe
horse.
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[] SammyJankins 2points2hoursago
Cananydetailsbesharedonhowitwasverified?
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[] laughingeconomist 6points1hourago
Yes.Someonesentmelinkstomultiplemissionblogsthatmentionedthedeathofa
sistermissionaryasaresultofcomplicationsofmouthsurgeries.Theobituaries
wereveryvagueandtherewerenonewsstoriesaboutit.
Sotheverificationisthatasistermissionarydiddieanditappearstohavebeen
kepthushhush.Itisplausiblethattherestdidhappen,butthereisnoverification
onthat.
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[] SammyJankins 3points1hourago
Thankyou.It'soddbecauseusuallymissionarydeathsgeneratenewsarticles.
Thefactthatthisonedidnot,stinkstohighheavenIMO.
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Ijuststumbledonthosesamelinks.There'salsoathreadonRFMfromlast
Octoberdiscussingthatwoman'sdeathfromoralsurgery.
Edit:Thetimelinewouldfittoo.
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[] drpeterfoster 2points2hoursago
Everybodylovestohate.Thereisnoproofofthisstory,andfactsdon'taddup.Dying
twodaysafterreleasefromahospitalafterIVantibiotictreatmentsoundsvery
suspicious...Shesurelywouldhavebeenonprescriptionantibioticsforatleastaweek
followingrelease,sorelapsingintosepsiswouldbeveryunlikely.
OPneedstoverify.
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[] laughingeconomist 7points1hourago
Thereareseveralmissionblogsthatmentionasistermissionarydyingafter
complicationsfromoralsurgery.Theobituariesforthatmissionaryarevague,asare
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themissionblogs,andtherewasapparentlynomediacoverage.Membersinthe
areawhereithappenedheardrumors,butnothingconcrete.
Myconclusionisthatthebasisofthestoryiscorrect,butthedetailsmightnotbe.
Butcouldbetrue.IfyouwouldlikelinkstothemissionblogsPMme.
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[] KodosKang1996 1points2hoursago
OPseemstoindicatethatitis'worldwideprotocol'togothroughthemission
president'swifeforthesemedicalclearances.Thisissimplynotthecase.
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 3points1hourago
Thenextsentenceaftertheportionyou'requotingfromis,"Youaren'tsupposedto
seekmedicalhelpwithoutpermissionfromyourmissionpresident."
She'snotsayingthatgoingtothemissionpresident'swifeisprotocol,she'ssaying
thatyouhavetogothroughthepresidencytogetpermission.Andmaybeshe
generalizedwhenshesaid"worldwide",butshe'snotwrongtoimplythat
missionarieshavetogothroughtheirleadersbeforeseekingmedicaltreatment.
I'veseenthesamethingmentioneddozensoftimesonr/exmormonandmybf
experiencedaverysimilartraumawithdelayedtreatmentsandaccusationsof
hypochondriaforasevereillnesswhileonhismission.
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[] KodosKang1996 1point1hourago
Yes,gettingmedicalclearanceisaworldwideprotocol.Ijustwantedtoclarify
thatit'snotarequirementtoinvolvethemissionpresident'swife.
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago
Ok.
Ifshehadputacolonbetween"Thisisworldwideprotocol"and"Youaren't
supposedtoseekmedicalhelpwithoutpermissionfromyourmission
president.",itwouldhavebeenclearerthesentenceprecedingwasjust
partoftellingwhathappened,ratherthanbeingtiedtotheprotocolremark.
We'reallonthesamepagenow.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] YoungModern 83points4hoursago
PleasetrytocontactPeggyFletcherStackaboutthis.Shecouldbringmediaattentionthat
shamesthechurchintosettling.
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Iemailedheralinktothispost.Othersdoingsowouldn'thurt.
pstack@sltrib.com
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https://twitter.com/religiongal
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[] Fast4ElizabethSmart 2points2hoursago
Ithoughtyoumeant"emailPeggySTACK!!"(Like"rightnow")
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[] Jesin00 6points1hourago
That's"stat".
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[] YoungModern 2points1hourago
Bekind.Idon'tknowifyoudownvoted,butI'dliketoletpeopleknowthat
there'snocausefordownvotes,onlygentlecorrection.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] 4blockhead [M]54points2hoursago*
Moderator'sstatement:Weassumegoodfaithposting,andhavenoreasontodoubtthe
veracityoftheOP.However,thesubreddithasnoindependentmeansoffactchecking
thesestatements.Thebasicfactsofwhereandwhenarelefttoothers,includingmedia
resourceswithfactcheckingabilities.TheOPhasaskedwhethertopursuethisasalegal
matterandhasreceivedinputonbothsides.Please,donotaddadditionalcontextbeyond
whattheOPhasprovidedwithoutprovidingproof,orcontactingthemodsfirst.
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[] 4blockhead [M]7points1hourago
IthinkthisweighstowardsbelievingtheOP.Again,wegivepeoplethebenefitof
thedoubt.Thecommunityexpressedskepticism,andthisdoesn'tprovideironclad
proof.However,Ithinkthisinformationshouldstand.Itisapublicblogpostthat
showsthatsistermissionariesdopassawayontheirmissions,andsometimes,it
maygorelativelyunnoticedbythemedia.Again,themoderatorteamisnot
weighingincertifyingthatthisistheexactcase,etc.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] truthdelicious AlmatheSexy 0points2hoursago
canyoupostthistothetop?Everyoneisoverreactingtoaunverifiedstory.
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[] 4blockhead 2points2hoursago
NotthatIknowof.
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Iamtearingupreadingaboutthis.
Absolutlyunacceptable!
Thechurchhasaresponsibilitytomakesuremissionariesgetmedical.
IfIamyou,Isuetheirassesoff.
Haveyouspokentoalawyer?
Btw.Wasthereanymediacoverageofyoursister'sdeath?
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Irememberreadingaboutyoursister,buthearingyourexperiencejustfurtheremphasizes
howbrokenthesystemis.
Youshouldabsolutelysue.
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[] SammyJankins 22points4hoursago
Wheredidyoureadaboutit?Ican'tseemtotrackdownanewsarticleaboutit.
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SomeoneherelinkedastoryaboutasistermissionaryinPortlanddyingonher
mission.Iassumeitisthesameperson,butImaybewrong.
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[] SammyJankins 5points3hoursago
Doyoumean'here'asin/r/exmormon?Canyoutellmeatimeframeorany
keywordstohelprefinemysearch?Isearchedtheaubreddit,butIhaven't
foundityet.
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Yeah,IthoughtIreadithereonthesub,butIcan'tfindanythingeither.
Hmmmm,maybeIreaditsomewhereelseandamrememberingwrong.
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IANAL:Sue!Iamsosorry,butthisisgrossnegligenceandthereisnoexcuseforit.
Hopefully,thisleadstochurchwidechangesinmedicalcareproceduresforfulltimeyoung
missionaries.Ididfinances(e.g.payingmedicalbills)inthemissionofficeforeightmonths
andsawsomehypochondriacmissionariestrytogamethesystemtogetoutofdoing
miserablework.ButIsawjustasmanymissionarieswithrealhealthproblemsincludinga
fewthathadgonefartoolongbeforegettingtreatment.MyMPandhiswifewerepretty
reasonable,butIcouldseehowitcouldbecomeyetanotherleadershiproulettegamewith
devastatingconsequences.
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Wehada90yearolddoctor/formerstakepatriarchwhowouldcurecancerspotswith
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
ablowtorchandotheroldschoolmedicine.OurMP'swifewasamazingthough.Shewas
furious,andthingschangedalmostimmediatelyonceshefoundout.
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[] Zelph_ 35points3hoursago
Iamanattorney,butIamnotlicensedinOregon.Inmoststates,boththeparentsand
thesiblingsareabletosueforwrongfuldeathifthepersonwasnotmarried.Youneedtoat
leastconsultwithanattorneywhoislicensedinOregon.PleasePMmeifyouneeda
referraltoagoodattorneyandIwillfindyousomeonewhowillspeakwithyou
forfree.
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Whyisthisnothigherup?
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[] dsngltn 14points3hoursago
TheSickRM'swebsite,justtoshowthatthisisnotanisolatedincident,butadeliberate
LDSChurchpolicy.
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Readingthesestoriesisabsolutelydisgusting.Howthehelldoesanyonestillhavetheir
"faith"afterbeingtreatedlikethatfrommissionpresidents,companionsandfamily?
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[] Wantmytithingback
givegold
24points4hoursago
Thisneedstoreceivemediaattention.Pleasegopublicwiththis.
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[] Moruitelda 12points1hourago
I'macivildefenselawyerandthinkthatalotofinappropriatelawsuitsarefiledbypeople
tryingtomakeabuck.
Thisone'snot.Contactalawyer.Ifthelawyerthinksyouhaveacase,sue.Thiswas
incrediblyirresponsibleandthereshouldbeconsequences.
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[] ladayen 2points1hourago
Idontunderstandonwhatgroundsyouwouldfilealawsuitthough.Theydidn't
physicallyrestrainherandeventuallybroughtherinthemselves.Shecouldhavegone
toadoctoratanypointbutchoosenotto.
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[] Moruitelda 2points1hourago
Physicalrestraintisn'tanelementofwrongfuldeath.Butthelawmayvarybystate,
whichiswhytheyshouldseealocallawyer.
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[] cloistered_around
parent
givegold
21points4hoursago
Shewasunderextremepressurenottoseeadoctordespitewhatshewanted,whatmostof
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herfamilywanted,andwhathermedicalprofessionalswanted.Onemightevensayshewas
coercednottoseemedicalhelp.
Ican'tsaywhatyoushoulddo,OP,butI'msoverysorryyou'velostasisterthisway.=(
Condolencesforyourfamily'sloss.
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[] Latin_Lover 32points5hoursago
Presscharges,doitforyoursister!Theydidn'tevenfeelbadaboutwhattheydidtoyour
sister!Howmanymoremissionary'swilltheykill.Startafundraiserifyouneedmoney,i
willgladlydonate!
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[] TotesMessenger 20points3hoursago*
Thisthreadhasbeenlinkedtofromanotherplaceonreddit.
[/r/atheism]ThedarkersideofMormonism:/u/sadieswalltellsaheartbreakingstory
ofhowhersister,asaMormonmissionary,wasdeniedpermissionfromherleadersto
obtainmedicalattention,whichultimatelyleadtoherdeath.
[/r/bestof]ThedarkersideofMormonism:/u/sadieswalltellsaheartbreakingstoryof
howhersister,asaMormonmissionary,wasdeniedpermissionfromherleadersto
obtainmedicalattention,whichultimatelyleadtoherdeath.
[/r/undeleteshadow][#19]MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident's
WifeinPortland[exmormon]379comments
Ifyoufollowanyoftheabovelinks,respecttherulesofredditanddon'tvote.(Info/Contact)
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Definitelyalawsuit.IfyoumessagemeIcanreferyoutoagoodExMoattorneyinSaltLake
whocanhandlethatlawsuit.TheproblemisthatiftheyareTBMyourfamilymaynot
supportthatandtheywouldneedtobetheonesfilingit.
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[] The_Accountemist 19points5hoursago
Howterrible!!Iagreewithyou,legalactionshouldbemade.I'veheard,though,whenlegal
actionisbroughtagainstthechurch,higherupsaskyourbishopandstakepresidentto
pesteryoutoreconsider.Itallmakesitahugedilemma.
I'msorrytohearaboutyourloss.Ihopeyourmothercanseehowwrongthemission
systemis,evenlethal.
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[] sinistriel
givegold
20points5hoursago
Thiskillsmetoreadthis.IfinallygotthehelpIneededformyailmentbutthesimilarities
inthisaremakingmenauseous.MyMPandhiswifetoldmemyconditionwasbecauseI
wassinningandittookawhiletogetthehelpIneeded.I'msosorryforyourloss.
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MyMPandhiswifetoldmemyconditionwasbecauseIwassinning
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Holy.Shit.
Oneoftheworstthingsishowfreakingbelievableitis.I'mgladyoufinallygotthehelp
youneeded.
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[] sinistriel
4points2hoursago
Wasn'teasy.Ihadtogetmyparentsandstakepresidentfromhometogettheball
rolling.
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[] MissionPrez 19points5hoursago
Ohmygosh.Somethingreallyshouldbedoneaboutthis.Thereshouldbeconsequences,
evenifitisjustpublicshaming.
Ontheotherhand,Irespectyourrighttochoosehowtohandleeverything.Themost
importantthingisyourfamilydowhatisrightforthem.
Edit:youcanstillsueevenifyourmomdoesn'twantto.Justdon'twaittoolatestatuteof
limitations.
Iwouldtalktoalawyer.They'lldoitforfree,andyoudon'thavetotellyourmom.Justask
thelawyerwhatyouroptionsare.
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Sorrytohearaboutyoursister.Ifyougetthemediainvolvedandagoodlawfirm,they
willpayup.Guaranteed.Theirimageistheirgodandtheywillnotletyoutarnishitone
wayoranother,evenifitinvolvesgivingyoualargesettlement.
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[] valadil 9points3hoursago
Maybeit'sgodswillthatyousuetheshitoutofthem.
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[] spacepenguin11 8points2hoursago
Upvoted,butthisisgoingtoneedsomesortofverification.
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http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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Removethispostandcontactanattorneytoday.
Thisisawrongfuldeathcase,especiallyifyouhaveemailstobackitup.Thechurchwill
settle.Theydon'twantthebadpress.
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[] Jake451 22points4hoursago*
Theonlythingthatmakesthisfuckingcultactwithdecencyisthethreatofpublic
shaming.Thisneedstobeexplodedintothemainstreammediafocusingonhowaculture
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ofextremeobedienceforMormonmissionariesresultsinhorrorsofthiskind.Ifitwereme,
IwouldsuenotonlythechurchbuttheMPandhiswifepersonally.Thesemonstersare
unworthyofthepowertheyholdoverimpressionableyoungpeople.NOBODYshouldhave
therighttoprohibitsomeoneelsefromseeingadoctor.
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[] lejefferson 13points4hoursago
Youneedtoinformthemediaofthisstory.Peopleshouldknowwhathappenstothe
supposedlywatchedoverbyGodmissionaries.Ihavesufferedlifelongmedicalissuesfrom
whatIwentthroughonmymission.Don'tgothroughthisalone.Letyoursistersdeathnot
beinvain.Thiscouldhelpsavethelivesofcountlessothermissionarieswhohaveabored
Utahhousewifeinlieuofamedicaldoctor.
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[] [deleted]4hoursago
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[] 4blockhead [M]3points3hoursago
Iamremovingthisatthispoint,becauseofnonconfirmationfromtheOP.
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I'msosorry.Youmightgetamoresolidlegalevaluationbypostingto/r/legaladvice.you
mighthavetoexplainmoreofthechurchspecificorganizationaloddities,buttheygive
legitadvice.Makesuretoincludetheapplicablestatesinyourposttitle.
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[] sheepboy 7points3hoursago*
Thisisterrible.Addingmypersonalstory:Onmymission(Australia19981999)Icrashed
mybikeandbangedupmykneewhichIthoughtwasjustsurfaceabrasionsandthatI
couldwalkitoff.Afewhourslatermykneehaddoubledinsizesospentthefollowing34
hourstryingtocallthemissionhomebutcouldn'tgetthrough.Thenextmorningtried
againandgotananswer(turnsouttheyhadthephoneofthehookforameetingand
forgottoputitbackon)andwastoldjusttotakepainkillersandwaititout.Spentthenext
twoweeksinbedonlygettingouttostruggletowalktothetoilet.Aftertwoweeksanother
nearbymissionarywhohadanestablishedmedicalconditionwasgoingforacheckupata
privatehospitalsotheMPswifesaidIshouldgowithhimandhaveamykneelookedat.
Thedoctortooklessthanaminutetosayheneededtoadmitme.Triedcallingthemission
homeforthenexthourtogetapprovalandthedoctordecidedhewouldhavetotransfer
metoapublichospitalwhichdidn'trequireinsuranceapprovalsoIcouldgettheurgent
treatmentIneeded.Hadanoperationandspentthenextweekinhospitalandamonth
stayingwithalocalmember.WassupposedtohaveregularcheckupsandrehabwhichMPs
wifesaidnottoworryaboutandthedoctortoldmenottoridemybikeforafewmonthsso
thoughttheywouldputmeinanareawithacarbutMPswifesaidIwouldjusthaveto
walkeverywhere.Twomonthsaftertheoperationmykneewasstillinflamedandfinallygot
permissiontoseethedoctoragainandIgotaroundofantibioticswhichfinallykilledthe
infection.Tothisdaymykneeisnot100%andrandomlygivesmepainbutIguessIcan
atleastbethankfulIgotoutalive.
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Iwasverydisappointedwithmytreatment17yearsagobutthoughtIwasjustunlucky
withthephonecallsbuttohearthisiscommonandhasleadtodeathjustmakesmesick.
TheLDSchurchisdisgustingandthewholeworldshouldknow.
Edit:Iwouldalsohappilydonatetoalegalfundifitcomestothat.
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Ican'tbelievetheydidn'tapologize.Takethistothepress!
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I'msosorry.Sosorry.I'msureyouwillmaketherightdecision.
Mybrotheralsodiedonhismission(thoughnotundersimilarcircumstances)soIknow
someaboutthespecificpainoflosingasiblingthatway.PleasePMmeifyoueverwantto
talk.
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[] MommaJo 6points3hoursago
IhatethewordsGod'swill.Pissesmeoffnoend.
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[] jackmormon4023 5points3hoursago
Iamsosorry.Thechurchshouldbesuedsothesystemchanges.Bygoingafterthemyou
maysavesomeoneslife.
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[] megustamucho26 5points3hoursago
Presschargesorstufflikethiswillcontinuetohappen.OnmymissionIhad
amoebas...whatwasItoldtodo?DrinkPeptobismol.Nothinghappened.Calledthemission
nursesandtheyweren'tworriedaboutitatall,justsaidtocontinuethePepto.Alocal
memberliedandgotmeintoafreeclinicwheretheytestedme,toldmeitwasamoebas
andwhatmedicinetotake.AsmallandinsignificantexampleIknowbutTSCCdoesn't
wanttospendtonsofmoneytakingcareoftheirownmissionariesoutthere,whichI
believeisshameful.Thisstoryisawfulandmycondolencestoyouandyourfamily.
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[] IchiroKertzec
1point2hoursago
ThisiswhatIfeelaswell.Peopleshouldneverignoredoctor'sadviceforanyreason,let
alonebeforcedorreligiouslyobligatedto.Regardlessofhowonefeelsaboutthechurch,
thisisapolicythatmustchangeotherwisetherewillbemoredeathslikethis.Noone
deservesthat.Noone.
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[] HircinesHandmaiden 6points1hourago
YourMOTHER...thinksitisGOD'SWILLherOWNDAUGHTERdiedfromaPREVENTABLE
MEDICALCONDITIONwhoseTREATMENTwasdeniedtoher.Thatisliterallythefarthest
thingfromGod'sWill!
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[] vyrtus
12points5hoursago
That'ssoterrible.I'msosorryforyourloss.Youshoulddefinitelysuethem.Talktoa
lawyer.Negligence.
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[] newnamemiriam 11points4hoursago
ContacttheOregonian:http://www.oregonianmediagroup.com/contact/contactnewsteam/
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[] sluttygrizzlybear 10points4hoursago
Takethisstorytothepress.Privatelyifyouhaveto.Peopleneedtohearthisandmore
importantlyyoursisterdeservesjustice.Iamsosorry.
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Dude,thisisahorriblestory.Andfuckthechurch'slegalarmy.
Theywereinapositionofauthorityoveryoursister,theydeniedherhealthcaremultiple
times,shediedasaresultofit.Theyneedtobeheldaccountable.
I'msosorrytohearthisstory.Butthanksforbeingwillingtoshareit.
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[] SammyJankins 5points4hoursago
Wereanynewsarticlespublishedaboutit?Howlongagodidthishappen?
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[] [deleted]2hoursago
[deleted]
[] SammyJankins 3points2hoursago
Ithinkwithoutatleastsomecorroboratingevidenceweshouldbeskepticalofthis
story.It'sprobablytoolateforthisthread,perhapsanewpostwouldbeadvisable
tomakepeopleawarethereisreasontodoubtthestory.
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http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago*
Maybe,someonejustsentmeamessageandsaidthattheyheardaboutthis
fromadifferentsource.IftheycanverifythestorythenIwilldeleteallofmy
comments.
Edit:Verificationfound.
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[] JosephsMyth 4points3hoursago
Iwonderhowmanypriesthood"blessings"wereissuedinlieuofmuchneededmedical
intervention.
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[] anditwaslove 4points3hoursago
Ourmomdoesn'twanttopursueanyactionagainstthemissionpresidentbecauseshe
believesthatmaybeitwasGod'swill.
I'msorrybutwow.Howbrainwasheddoesoneneedtobetobelieveyourdaughter'seasily
preventabledeathwas"God'swill"?Sickening.PLEASEtakethisstorytothepress.Makea
bigfussuntilthechurchhavenooptionbuttoansweryourquestionsandchangeprotocol.
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Maybeit'ssomekindofcopingmechanism?Shedoesn'twanttobelievetheharsh
realitythatfaultyleaderspreventedherdaughterfromgettingthecaresheneeded?
Becausethenshe'dadmitthattheyweren'tcalledofGod,orthatGodwasn'twatching
overherdaughter,andgoingdownthatrabbitholemightbetoomuchforher.She'd
rathersimplybelieveit'sallpartofsomecelestialplan.Thatfantasysoundssomuch
moreappealingthanwhatactuallyhappened.
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[] timcharper 4points3hoursago
Ialmostkilledmyselfonmymission,Ididn'tseekthemedicalhelpIshouldhaveandwas
sickfor>50%ofit(withpneumonia,bronchitis,etc.).I'vehadmanyissueswithmylungs
sincethen,andwondersometimesiftheystemtonottreatinginfectionsinmylungs.Iam
luckythatIdidn'tdie.Ikeptsaying,"mybodyfeelsdead,butmyspirithasneverbeen
morealive",asifthat'sagoodthing.Worse,Iworkeddoortodoor,nearlyawalking
deadman,becauseIwasshowingmyfaithingod.
HolyshitIwasdelusional.It'sprobablywhyIhavesuchanaversiontoreligionnow,
because(amongstmanyreasons)Ithinkittaughtmetothinkinawaythatnearlykilled
me(and,putothersatrisk).
:(
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[] PresidentNEWSROOM 4points3hoursago
Ihaveissuesrelatedtomyconcussions(two)onmymission.Missionpresidentdidn'twant
metoseeadoctorunlessabsolutelynecessary.Thiswas20002002andIstillsufferthe
effectsfromit(shorttermmemoryproblemsandanger/depression).
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[] Nolongerindoctrinate 4points3hoursago
Thanksforsharing
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[] filologo 4points3hoursago
Ohwow.Iamsosorrythatyouaregoingthroughthis.Fuckthatladyandfuckthis
religion.
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givegold
Likeothershavesaid,presslegalchargesandcontactmedia.Ifnotforyourself,doitfor
futuremissionarieswhomayendupinasimilarpredicament.
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[] mechtech 4points3hoursago
I'mjumpingonthebandwagonatthispoint,butpleasedoeverythinginyourpowerto
ensurethiswon'thappenagainvialegalactionandgettingthisstoryout.
Doitforyoursister,foryourfamily,andforallofthefuturemormonsthatwillfind
themselvesinsimilardanger.
Thewholesystemneedstochange.Havingnontrainedmissionleaderscontrolmedical
policyisdangerousandleadstodeath.
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[] B_Bast 4points2hoursago
Thisiswhyatheismisathing.
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[] MightyTaint 9points4hoursago
shesoughtpermissiontoseeadoctorthroughthemissionpresident'swife.Thisis
worldwideprotocolformissionaries.
Whatthelivingfuck?
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That'sseriouslyhowitis.Ihurtmybackprettybadlyonmymission,andIwasn't
allowedmedicalattentionuntilmymissionpresidentgavemetheOK.Theyusuallytry
tocontactmembersandgetthemtodoitforfree.Ihadonecompanionwhogotfree
dentalcarefromanLDSdoctor,andIsawanLDSchiropractor.ItseemslikeTSCCwill
trytoweaseltheirwayoutofhavingtopayforanythingiftheycan.
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[] MightyTaint 4points4hoursago
Howthiscan'tmakemembersgo"WTF?"isbeyondme.
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Unfortunately,mostmemberswillseethispersonasa"badexample"ofwhata
MissionPresidentshouldNOTdo,andoverlookthedeeperissueofmaking
missionariesasktheirleadersiftheycanseeadoctor.It'sbeyondridiculous.
Eveninbasictraining,(whereyouhavetogetpermissiontotakeashit)the
militarywillnotmakeyouasksomeoneelseformedicalattention,because
healthandsafetycomesfirst!ThisjustgoestoshowhowlittleTSCCcaresabout
itsownsalesmenbymakingtheirrequestsformedicalattentiontobearbitrarily
determinedbysomefuckingcult'slapdog.
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[] thebumm 8points2hoursago
Firstoff,itiswelldocumentedthatIdefendtheLDSchurch(onreddit)fromunduehatred
andbigotry.ThispostisNOTunearnedhate.Thisisaveryrealandverybigproblemin
manylargeorganizations,theLDSchurchbeingjustthat.ItalsoisanissueImyselfhad
withtheMormonchurch(similarcircumstances,differenttragicoutcome).
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
NormallyIwouldsaygoafterlegallyspeakingtheMissionPresidentbecauseinall
reality,hedidn'tcheckwithanyone.Hedidn'tcheckwithGodortheprophetoranyone,he
(orhiswifemaybe)justdeniedtherequest.Therequestismeanttobeoutofrespectfor
theprocessandinnowayissupposedtobestonewalled.It'ssupposedtoserveas
notificationratherthanformallyasking.That'sabuseofpoweronMP'sfault.
Normally.Ithinkhewillbeprotectedbythechurchlawyers,soithastobethechurch.You
guyshaveto.Evenifwegivethewholechurchthebenefitofthedoubt(likeImentioned
above,likelyisjustMP)theyhavetobemadeawareofthisguyabusinghispositionand
gethimthehelloutofthere.Theseareyoungpeoplethatarebeing"guided"andifanyof
thatsocalledguidanceisabused,morebadthingswillcontinuetohappen.
TLDRIdefendthechurchattimes,thisisNOToneofthosetimes.Goget'em.Please,
goafterthis.
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[] tksmoothie
givegold
8points4hoursago
Toomuchofthisgoesonwithmissionpresidentswivesplayingdoctor.Iwasfeelinglike
deathinMexicoatthebeginningofmymission.Everytime,'elderTKSmoothie,drinkmore
water'.Iofcoursewassuperobedientandtrustedhercounsel.Witha103tempmy
companionfinallytookmetoanemergencyroominMexicoagainstthepresidentswishes.
ThyphoidFeverfromallthebadwaterIwastoldtodrink!
Betpartwasdroppingmypantsforoneofthegigglysistersinthewardtoadminister
penicillinshotsinmybum:)
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[] Iamstuckathope 8points4hoursago
I'msoterriblysorryaboutthis.First,IwanttosaythattheChurchshouldpaydearlyfor
this.
OfcourseIdon'tmeantogiveanylegaladvicethroughthiscommentandnobodyshould
relyonthiscommentforanything,butthiscasewouldbesimple/straightforward,butnot
easy.Therearealotoffactorsatwork,andIthinkalotwoulddependonthespecificsof
Oregonlawandtheapproachofthejudge/jury.
TheMPswifewasanauthorityfigure,butdoesshehaveaspeciallegaldutyinthiscase?
Didsheindicatepaymentforserviceswouldberefused?Anyexplicitretributionifthe
missionarywenttothedoctor?
Isitreasonableunderthelawtorelyonanuntrainedchurchleaderformedicaladvice?Is
theimplicitthreatofdisciplineenoughtocountascoercion?WastheMPswifegivingclear
orders,orwasshegivingamereopinion?
TheChurch'sbehaviorinthiscaseiscertainlydisgusting,andknowingwhatIknowabout
theChurch,IthinktheChurchdeservestobeslammedforthis,butitwouldbeastrange
casetolitigate.Ifyoucouldsurviveuntiltrial,Iimagineyoucouldgetalotofsympathyfor
theJury,especiallyifyouspelledouttheideathatstrictobedienceisrequiredtobewith
yourfamilyafteryoudie.
MyguessistheChurch'slawyerswouldpushforasettlement.Theycertainlydon'twantto
setaprecedenteitherway.Ifyourfamilywins,itshowstheChurchhasadutytoprovide
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goodmedicaladvicetomissionariesandhasliabilitiesforanyfailure.IftheChurchwins,it
demonstratesthatmissionariesshouldignoretheMPandtakecareofthemselves.
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[] MinsPackage 9points4hoursago
Makebackupsofalldocumentationofcorrespondence,emailsespecially.Doyouhaveher
journal?Whataboutthecorrespondenceorblogpostsorjournalentriesofhermission
companionatthetime.AndI'msorry,butyourmomhaslostit.God'swill?Fuckthatshit.
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Idon'tknowifI'lleverbeabletoexpresshowmuchIhatethisfuckingorganization.
Takethemtocourtandfuckthemwithacactus.
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[] Ranaj 4points3hoursago
THIS!
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"..maybeitwasGod'swill."
Holy.Shit.I.Hate.What.This.Cult.Does.To.Good.People.
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[] morganizedreligion 9points2hoursago
Lookslikethisstoryislegit...http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/Asisterfromthesame
missioninVancouver,WAwrotethisonherblogonMay28,2014...soundslikethisstory.
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[] dante2810
1point1hourago
Gladyoufoundthis
Ikeptsearchingandcouldnotfindanyindependentreferencetothisstory.
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[] [deleted]4hoursago*
[deleted]
[] fa1thless Faithmeansnotwantingtoknowwhatistrue. [M]4points4hoursago
Nopersonalinformation.Wedonotneedawitchhunt.
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[] CountVonNeckbeard 2points1hourago
Whatifshe'sactuallyawitch?Weshouldhuntherjusttobesafe
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Thencallhazelandgrertylandleaveittothepros.
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[] DonttouchyourZelph 5points4hoursago
Heartbreaking!
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[] Frostgreen 3points4hoursago
Sorry,mycondolences.Thatladyshouldnotbeinthatposition,herignorancehascaused
harmtoothers
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[] tincanfurball 3points3hoursago
I'msorryforyourloss.Thechurch'semphasisonobedience,andthehorriblesituationsit
oftencausesisabsolutelydisgustingtome.
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[] Bennyboy1337 3points3hoursago
Wordscannotdescribe.Ireallydohopeyoureachoutandtrytomakethismonstrous
actionmorewellknown,atbestsuccessfullegalactioncanbebroughtagainstthechurch
andpeoplewillhearaboutthisstorynationorevenworldwide.Ireallywishyouthebestof
luck,thereareplentyofkindancaringpeopleonthissub,askusifyouneedanyhelp.
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[] jor_gen_sen 5points3hoursago
Losingasiblingmustbesopainful,andI'msosorrytohearofyourloss.I'mnolawyer,but
ifmedicallytrainedandlicensedprofessionalsreleasedyoursisterfromthehospital,then
theywouldbetheoneswhocouldbelegallyliableforherdeath.Notanuntrained
volunteer.I'mnotdefendingthepolicy,butconsideringthetimelineofevents,Sister
Presidentisnotlegallyliable.
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[] seventhvision 4points3hoursago
Thechurchhasbeendoingthingslikethisfordecades.Theygetawaywithitbecause
peopledon'tliketosueachurch.Idon'tknowwhy,negligenceisnegligence.Thechurch
won'tchangeunlesspeoplestartstandingupforthemselves.
Iwoulddefinitelytakethisstorytothepress.It'stimetoletthecatoutofthebag.
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[] raffastafarian 3points3hoursago
Ican'timaginehowyourmothercouldwatchherchilddieofatreatableinfectionbecause
shewasdeniedtreatment,andthensayitwasGod'swill.Thatpoorwomanmustbe
miserable.IwishIcoulddosomethingtohelp.
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ThatwholepermissiontogoseethedoctorruleisthebiggestcrockofshitI'veheard.I
can'tbelieveshewasdeniedmultipletimes!!!Whothehelldoesthat???!!!Thatisabsolute
negligenceandtheydeservetobeheldresponsible.Ihopeyoufindthemeanstoseek
justiceforyoursister,shedeservesit.Shededicatesayearandahalfofherlifetothe
churchandtheytakeawaytherestofit.FUCKTHISCULT.
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[] cadetgwladus 3points3hoursago
I'msosorryaboutwhathappened.Whateversupportyouneed,thiscommunityisherefor
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you.
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[] Debasers_Comics 3points3hoursago
Ihavenothingconstructivetoadd.
Fuckthosetwisted,monstrousfreaksandeverymewlingdefensethatdropsoutofthe
festering,cancerousassholestheycallmouths.
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[] eltiare
givegold
3points3hoursago
Thisisfuckingawful.Therearen'tenoughswearwordsintheEnglishlanguagetosayjust
howmindnumbinglyawfulthisis.Youshouldsuetokeepthemfromdoingthisagain.This
isn'tjustaboutyoursister,buttoeveryoneelsethattheywilldothistointhefuture.I'm
sosorryforyourloss.:(
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[] MorCowbell 3points2hoursago
Mysincerestcondolencesfirstofalltoyouandyourfamily.Thismustbeaverydifficultand
stressfultimeforeveryoneinvolvedandittookalotofcourageforyoutoposthere.
Secondly,pursuingchargesonthismanandwomenistherightthingtodotheyarein
clearviolationofthelawbyneglectingtheneededcareyoursisterobviouslyneeded.It's
amazingthatthemission'spresident'swifeabusedherpowerandthesystemyoursister
followed,andindoingsoultimatelycausedherdeath.Andthenforyourmothertojustifyit
asanactofgodisbeyondcomprehension.
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[] pamelakd
givegold
4points2hoursago
IfyoustartagofundmepagetohelpwiththefinancialcostsofpursuinglitigationIwill
gladlycontribute.Thisshouldnotbeallowedtogounansweredfor.
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[] iasazo 4points2hoursago
Thisisaverytragicstory.OnethingthatseemsverywrongthatIdon'tseeanyone
mentioningisherbeingreleasedfromthehospitaltwodayspriortoherpassing.Wasshe
stillsepticwhentheyreleasedher?
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[] CastigatRidendoMores 3points2hoursago
TLDR:Icameveryclosetodyingonmymissionforsimilarreasons,butinmycaseit
wasn'tnearlysoclearlyduetobadjudgmentorworse.Foronething,wehadanactual
missiondoctor.
Iamanorgantransplantrecipient,andtakemedicationsthatsuppressmyimmunesystem
inordertokeepmybodyfromrejectingthetransplantedorgan.ThatmeansIgetsick
rathereasily,Irecovermoreslowly,andminorinfectionscanleadtobigproblems.
Sohere'swhathappened:Igotsomenasalcongestionthatledtocongestedears(your
innereardrainsintoyournasalcavities,sothetubescangetblockedbymucus).Myears
startedtohurt,soImadeacallintothemissiondoctor,concernedthattheywereinfected.
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Sheaskedsomequestionsandcametotheconclusionthatitwasalmostdefinitely
allergies,despitemeneverhavingallergiesbefore.
Itrustedherjudgment,asshewasadoctorandIwasnot.Thethingis,mysuppressed
immunesystemalsomeanslesssymptomsofinfectionit'sharderformetogetafever,
forexample.Sothesignsofinfectionshewaslookingforweren'tallthere,buttheinfection
was.
Longstoryshort,afternumerousothercallsthepaingotsointensethatnothingwould
makeitbearable.Ispentadayinbedmoaning,sleepingacouplehoursoffandon.ThenI
noticedthatthesideofmyfacehadswollenup,myearaninchortwofurtheroutthanit
shouldbe.ThedoctortoldustogostraighttotheER.
Iwasinthehospitalforaweek,withthreedifferentIVantibiotics.Ittookanothercoupleof
weeksfortheswellingtogodownenoughtodrainmyearthroughtheeardrum.The
missiondoctorcametovisitmeinthehospital,absolutelymortifiedandapologetic.
Themoralofthestoryis:Whenitcomestoyourownhealth,don'tblindlytrustanyone
else'sjudgment,evenadoctor's.Ifyouseeadoctorandwhatthey'resayingdoesn'tseem
right,presstheissue.Getasecondopinionifnecessary.Doctorsknowwaymorethanyou
doaboutmedicalcare,buttheycan'tfeelwhatyouarefeelingandsometimestheymake
mistakes.
Andifyoucan't100%trustdoctors,definitelydon'triskyourownhealthontheadviceof
someonewithoutpropermedicaltraining.Ican'tbelievetheMP'swifewasso
unquestioninglyconfidentinheropinionwiththatmanycalls.Itnevershouldhavegotten
tothatpoint.
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[] repmack
givegold
5points2hoursago
InterestinglyenoughIthinkIknowaboutthestoryyou'retalkingabout.Areyousureyour
sisterwasn'tservinginaWashingtonStateMission?Specificallywassheinthesouthwest
ofthestaterightalongtheColumbiariverwhenshegotsickandpassedaway?
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[] thebumm 4points2hoursago
Onemorething,OP.It'syourmom'srighttobelievewhatshebelieves(thatit'sGod'swill)
BUTit'syourrightandtherestofyourfamily'stobelievewhatyoudo.Ifyouandtherest
ofyourfamilythinkthisisworthyoflegalaction,goforit.
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[] Themiffins 5points2hoursago
Feellikealotofpeopleareignoringthemomtellingthedaughtertolistentothepresident
andhiswife.
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[] freedomthinker 3points2hoursago
Verysorryforyourloss.Unbelievabletragedy.Youmayhavejustbecomemillionaires
becauseyoucouldsuetheFUCKoutofthoseinconsiderateFUCKS!!!Bestofluckandagain
sorry
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[] socratess 5points2hoursago
Sothebigquestioniswho'sprimarilyresponsibleforthedeath?IsittheMP'swifeorthe
Church?Yourcommentsplease.
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[] Jager4TheUndead 0points2hoursago
Bothinmyopinion.Sherepresentsthechurch.
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Thisisterrible.Thisistrulyterrible.Suethem,soitdoesn'thappentosomebodyelse.
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Holyshit,thisstorybrokemyheart.I'msosorrythatthistragedythathappenedtoyou
andyourfamily.Andyoucertainlyareentitledtosuethescumresponsibleforusingtheir
authoritytopressureyourlatesisterinnotgettingmedicalcare!Pleasecontactalawyer,
theyshouldnotgetawaywiththisterriblecrimethatledtoaninnocentperson'sdeath.
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[] foruntous 8points4hoursago
I'msoverysorryforyourlossandforthewayyourfamilywastreated.
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[] dante2810
givegold
9points4hoursago
Iamsosorryaboutyoursister.
Iamsorryaboutyourmotheraswell.Ifeartimewilltakeit'stollasshetriestomaintain
theillusionthatthiswas"godswill"annotnegligencebytheMPwife.
Iwillbehonest,legalactionmaynotgoanywhere.Lawyerswillargueyoursisterwasan
adultanddidnotneedtheMPpermission.Andwhileweknowwhatamissionislike,non
memberwouldhaveahardtimeunderstandingwhyshedidnotjustgoonherown.
Ifyouwanttomakesuresomethinglikethisdoesnothappenagain,amediacampaign
mightbeawaytogo.
Thechurchfearsbadpress.
Whenpeopleaskthequestion"whydidn'tshejustgoonherown",thewholecultideology
getsexposed.
Onlyyouoryourfamilycanknowwhatisbestwaytohandlethesituationandwhetheryou
arewillingtogopublic.
Youareinourthoughts
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[] DogBones11 5points4hoursago
Thankyouforsharingyourdifficultstory.Youcanhelppreventsomethinglikethisfrom
happeningtoanothermissionary.
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Thisisaterriblestory.
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
Soundslikethehospitalalsobearssomeblamewhydidtheyreleaseher?!
Iwonderwhatgodlywisdominitiatedthepolicywheremissionmomswerequalifiedto
triagemedicalcare?Icanjusthearthatdiscussion,abouthow18yearoldboysand19
yearoldgirlsaren'tquitereadytodeterminewhenmedicalcareisnecessaryandwhenit
isn't,thereforegothroughawisemissionmom.Inthemeantime,havethoseyoungboys
andgirlsgooutandtellpeopletheanswerstoalloflife'squestions.
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Infuriating!Rageinducing!Thesehorriblehumanbeingsneedtobeheldaccountablefor
causingthedeathofyoursister!
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[] chanteusetriste
6points4hoursago
Unlessmissionpresidentsortheirwivesaredoctors...TheyareNOTqualifiedtodiagnose!
Suetheshitoutofthem,contactthemedia.Fuckwhatyourmomsaid.
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[] meateaterbc 6points3hoursago
Thisisapolicythatclearlyneedstochange.Ifyouhaveamedicalissue,itmustbetaken
upwithahealthcareprofessionalNOTthewifeofsomeoldguywhosomeotheroldguys
askedtobethere.
Thinkofitlikethisifyouhadtoaskyourbossforpermissiontogotothehospitalaftera
workplaceinjury,thatwouldbeaclearviolationofhealthandsafetyprotocol.THISISNO
DIFFERENT.
Pleaseatleastgospeaktoafewdifferentlawyersaboutthis.Youcouldsaveothers'lives.
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[] randomapologist 2points3hoursago
MyGod,Iamsosorry.Myheartbreaksforyou.Ican'timaginesuchasenselessloss.
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[] Ryguychu 2points3hoursago*
I'mallforlitigation!PleaseincludethemissionpresidentANDthechurch.Thisissomessed
up.Isanyonesendingthisstorytonewsoutlets?Butyes,pleaseverifythestorysomehow.
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[] Myfriendthewitchdoc 2points3hoursago
Assumingforaseconditwas"God'swill",thebehaviorofMPandwifewasstilldangerous
andunethical.Surelyyourmothercanagreewiththat?Whatahorriblepositionforyour
parentstobein.I'msosorryforyourloss,Iwishyouandyourfamilylotsofcomfortasyou
grieve.Ihopeyoucanallcometoagoodconsensusaboutwhattodoasafamily.
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[] vdau 4points3hoursago
Whenwasthis?Mygirlfriend'smom'sbestfriendwasthewifeofthePortlandmission
presidentinthelastdecade.....
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago
I'vefounditmentionedonafewotherforums,anditlookslikeyou
mightberight.I'lldeletemycomments.
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http://crystalboatright.blogspot.com/
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[] laughingeconomist 1point2hoursago
You'llnotethosecommentswerealreadydeleted.Verificationwas
provided.
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girlfriendhere,checkinginD:
ThiswasafterthemissionpresidentIknew(whichisarelief,becauseheandhiswife
arereallykindpeopleandwouldneverdenysomeonemedicalhelp,especiallysincehe
wasadoctor!)
Thatbeingsaid,Iamsosorry,OP!Thatissoterribleandit'sevenworsethatyour
familyisn'tunitedinconfrontingthisawfulreality.
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[] Shill4Shekels 2points2hoursago
http://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/32md9u/or_can_anyone_comment_on_the_possib
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[] maowsers93 3points2hoursago
Itisn'tGod'swilltoforcepeopletoworkforfreeinexcruciatingpainuntiltheydie.Thatis
man'swill.I'msosorryaboutyoursister.Thepeoplewhotreatedherlikethatneedtobe
heldaccountable.YoumightseeifyoucancontactsomeonewiththeACLUorothercivil
rightsgroupswhomightbeabletoputyouintouchwithsomelegalcouncil.
It'sastretchofasubjectbutI'darguethatmanipulatingsomeoneintobelievingtheyhave
toworkinpainagainsttheirwillisaninfringementonpersonalrights.
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[] [deleted]1hourago
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago
Idon'tthinkweshouldpostthosethingshere.OPmayhaveomittedtheprecise
locationinanattempttoslowthechanceofherbeingouted.Hernameisamongthose
ontheobituaryit'sbasicallylikeperipherallydoxxingher(presumingthisistheright
case,whichIbelieveitis).
IfOPdidn'twanttosharetheobitorspecificswhileshewascrowdsourcing
r/exmormon'sresponsesonthis,weshouldrespectthatuntilshehasachanceto
gatherherthoughtsanddecidewhetherornottopursuethislegally.
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[] siirna 3points1hourago
Ourmomdoesn'twanttopursueanyactionagainstthemissionpresidentbecauseshe
believesthatmaybeitwasGod'swill.
TherearenothurtfulenoughthingsIcansayaboutthatthingtoconveyhowreadingthis
mademefeel.
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[] raezin 2points1hourago
Canwegetthistothemedia,please?OP,pleasedemandjusticeforyoursistertoprotect
othersonsanddaughtersfromthesamefate.Backthechurchintoahotcornerandforce
themtolookatwhattheydidlikeadogintrouble.Wavethislikefecesundertheirnose.
Theymustbeheldaccountable.
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[] Drainbownick 3points1hourago*
Youneedtotakethiscasetoaninvestigativejournalistandgetastorycirculating,then
followupwithalawsuitoncethereissomemediaorpublicbacklashagainstthechurch.I
amnotagainstLDS,quitetheoppositeIhavemanygoodfriendsinthechurchandI
respectthemasawholedespitetheflawsoftheorganization(andthecrockofcrapthey
arefoundedon)butthismedievalthinkingmustbeeradicatedwhereverit'sfound.
Edit:terriblysorryforyourloss...don'tbebitteratyourmom,she'sindenial...bitterness
won'thelpyoucope.Myheartgoesouttoyouandyourfamily.
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[] sojuatheist 10points2hoursago
Inoticedabunchofvanilla,nonconfrontational,nonsarcastic,sympathetic,regular
commentsthatweredownvoteddownthere.Ipassedabunchofvotesaroundto
compensate.
TotheTBMwhothoughtitwasagoodideatogothroughathreadlikethisandblanket
downvoteeveryone...Fuck.You.GoshoveaBookofMormonupyourass.
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[] maowsers93 6points2hoursago
I'mnoticedthesamethingandI'mupvotingeveryonetoo.Whysomeonewouldgo
throughasensitivethreadlikethisandblanketdownvoteeveryoneisbeyondme.
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[] guiglia 5points5hoursago
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I'msosorrytohearaboutthispainfulsituation.Iunderstandthatitisaverysensitive
issuebutthinkyouarerighttoshareyourconcernswithotherstohopefullyprevent
anothersituationofthisnature.Heartfeltsympathy.
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[] desertrat22 6points4hoursago
Heartbreakingsosorryforyourloss.Mayyoufindintimewhateverpeaceisobtainable
fromthishorrificsetofcircumstances.
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[] laineypc 5points4hoursago
Soverysorryforeveryoneinvolved.Itwasn'tgod'swill.Itwasbadpolicy,badjudgment
andoverrelianceonfaith.Onehastowonderifthemissionpresident'swifewouldhave
madethesamedecisionswereitherowndaughter.Mythoughtisthatthechurchpolicy
needstobeaddressedandchanged,andperhapslegalactionisnecessaryforthechurchto
taketheproblemseriously.Iamafanoftheconceptofrestorativejusticeandmediationas
Ithinkitisultimatelymorehealingforallinvolved,butIdon'thaveexperiencetoback
thatup.Butmediation/reconciliationbetweenyourfamilyandthemissionpresidentand
hiswife,byaneutral(nonchurch)3rdpartyisanotheroptiontoconsider.
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[] CraigPaxton
givegold
6points4hoursago
Thankyouforsharingthisimportantstory.YouNEEDtotakethistotheChurchOffice
Building.Thisneedstobearequiredlessontaughttothenewandcurrentmission
presidentssothatthiskindofnegligenceisNEVERrepeatedEVER.
Iamsosorryforyourunimaginableloss...andknowingthatitwaspreventablehadyour
sisteronlylistenedtoherownneedsratherthanhermissionpresidentswife...onlymake
thisallthemoretragic.
Pleasecontactthechurchandmakecertainthatyoursistersdeathisnotinvain.Others
camebeprotected...ifthistragiclessonistaughttoallcurrentandfutureMP's
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[] im26e4u 4points4hoursago
Whatatragicandunnecessaryloss.Ifeelsoverysorry.Dowhatyouthinkisthebest
courseofactionforthefamily,andIhopewithtimeallcanhealfromthistragicloss.
CertainlytheresponsibilityrestssolelyontheMissionPresidenthimself,noteventhewife,
heistheoneultimatelyresponsible,andbyextensionthechurchherepresents.
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[] Unmormon1 4points4hoursago
IfMomdoesn'tloveherdaughterenoughtodoanything,I'datleasttrackdownevery
missionaryIcouldthatknewherandmakesurethey'rehearingthetruestory.
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[] crispybaconsalad 4points4hoursago
Iwouldreallyliketoseesomesortofjusticecomefromthis.
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[] JulieGrenn 4points4hoursago
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Myheartisbrokenforyouandyourfamilyi'msosorry.Thismakesmesoangry,whatdoes
itcostthechurchtoletthemissionariesgotothehospital?
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[] murmalerm
5points3hoursago
Notacult/S
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Talktoanattorney.Forgetaboutthechruchs'lawyers.Yourattorneyshouldtakeacaselike
thisoncontingencysoyourattorneywillgetpaidoutofsettlementproceedsorfromthe
judgment.
Please,please,pleasetalktoanattorneyinOregon.
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[] onlythecosmos
3points3hoursago
I'mverysorryforthis.Irememberhowonmymissiontheywoulddoeverythingtheycould
tonotletusseetheDoctor.Presschargesandgotothepress,please.Ifyouneedhelp
withdonationsI'msurewecanallhelp.Pleasekeepusposted.
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[] BadLuckRabbitsFoot 5points3hoursago
Thisstoryneedstobebroughttolightandparadedoutintothemedia.Justlikemany
otherhavesaid,theonlythingthatisgoingtomakethechurchchangeandfixtheseissues
isifthey'reshowntobeinabadlight.ThisHAStoatleastgetout.I'dsuggestseeingif
youcanpursuesomesortoflegalaction,andIhopeyoudo,butIcanunderstandifyou
decidenotto.Butplease,please,please,atleasttrytogetthisfurtherintothepubliceye.
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[] BanetteTrainer 4points2hoursago
Ifyourmothereverreadthebibleshewouldknowthatapainfuldeathforherchildwas
nevereverapartofthewillofGod.
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[] razorwiredbliss 4points2hoursago
Thisisstandardprocedure,andiscompleteidiocy.Ineveroncewenttomymission
presidentswife,asIknewshewasn'tmedicallytrained,andIdon'tcountbeinga
"mommy"andputtingbandaidsoncutstobesufficienttogiveherauthorityoverevery
missionary'shealth.
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[] filmmaker30
7points5hoursago
Sososorryforyourloss.Horrendous.Youshouldsuetomakesurethisdoesn'thappen
again.
Arethereanylawyersoutthere?Theyhavetohavearealcaseright?Especiallyifthesister
gotinwriting?Thisisterrible.Thisiswhathappenswhenyoutakeawaypeople'sabilityto
thinkforthemselves.Disgusting.
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[] silverfirexz
1point2hoursago
Wow.Iamsosorryforyourloss.Ithinkyoushouldpublicizeyourstory,andpursuelegal
charges.Thisbehaviorwasnegligentandshouldbeprosecuted.Thechurch,andthis
missioncoupleshouldbeheldresponsiblefortheiractions,andforthegreatharmthey've
caused.Sothattheydon'tdoitagain.
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[] onemightyandstrong 1point2hoursago
Negligenceofmissionarywellbeingisalltocommon.Myexgirlfriendtoldmeshewasraped
onhermissionbecauseanAPwastoocheaptobuyheraprivatecabinonatrain.
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[] LDSRevelations 1point2hoursago
Sosorryforyourloss.Iwaswantingtoreadmoreaboutwhathappenedbutcan'tseemto
findanythinginthepressaboutit.2014inPortland?
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[] beerob81 1point2hoursago
Yousuethemandthechurchasawhole.Noquestion
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[] socratess 1point2hoursago
Thisisterrible!AlawyershouldlookatthehandbookandtheLDShealthinsurancepolicy.
Forinternationals(Germans)withsuperbhealthcarethatmustbeevenmoreshocking.Not
sureifthereisnegligencebytheadminofficer,butmycorepointiswhetherahealthcare
approvalsystemisreallyallowedtoletnonprofessionalstakeonaresponsibleroleinhealth
careandoverrulespecialistmedicaladvisejusttosavemoney?Thiscouldbematerialfora
classactionsuit.
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1point2hoursago
OhmyGod!I'msosorry,andangry!Whateverlegalactioncanbebrought,oughttobe,
withoutquestion.
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[] darwinn_69 3points2hoursago
UnfortunatelyIdon'tthinkyoucansue.Unlesstheyheldaguntoherheadshemadeher
owndecisions.However,gettingthisexposureisprobablyyourbestbet.Wouldbringing
thisuptochurchofficialssothosepeoplelosetheirjobbeanoption?
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[] socratess 1point1hourago
Can'tgetoverit.Theyyelled?Whataboutsayingoveranoverhowsorrytheyare?Have
theyalreadybeenbriefedbylawyers?
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[] CountVonNeckbeard 2points1hourago
IsthisyoursisterOP?
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1393626,1393708
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[] Merari01 3points1hourago
I'msosorryforyourloss.
Pleasepresscharges.Thesepeoplearedirectlyresponsibleforherdeath.
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[] patriarchybasher 1point1hourago
TherearesomeattorneysinPortlandwhohavesuedtheLDSchurchoverchildabuse.I
don'tknowthenameofthefirmbutthe"get"whatit'sliketotakeontheLDSchurchand
theyarenotafraidtodoit.Itmightbethiscase:http://www.prnewswire.com/news
releases/childabusecoverupcostsmormonchurch3million71939217.html
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[] patriarchybasher 2points1hourago
Lookslikethesameattorney,DavidSlader,alsosuedtheCatholicChurch,butIcan't
findaninternetpresenceforhim.However,anotherattorneymentionedinthearticle
hasawebsite.Hereisthestory:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/articles/A312662004Jul6.html
AndhereisalinktoWilliamBarton'slawfirm:
http://www.superlawyers.com/oregon/lawyer/WilliamABarton/8531bd6d798949e5
aee7265b7a8fe69c.html
Idon'tknowanythingabouttheseguysotherthanthattheyhavetakenonbig
defendants,includingtheLDSandCatholicchurches,butI'mthinkinglawyerslikethis
wouldlovetotakeonthiskindofcase.
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[] TomLambe 2points1hourago
Thisisunbelievable!
Youcan'tgotoadoctorbecauseGodwillbemad!?
Fuckinghell,I'vehearditallnow!
Sorryforyourloss.
Suethefuckoutoftheselfish,evil,manipulativewankers.
Hittheminthepursestrings,it'sobviousthatthat'stheirmainaim,youknow,since
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they'dratheryoursisterearnthemfollowersandmoneythanreceivemedicalhelpandlive.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefromexternal
subreddits.
[] Reprobates 3points1hourago
SoundslikeithappenedinVancouver,Washington(acrosstheriverfromPortland).Has
anyonecontactedthelocalnewspaper?
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[] bt2184 2points1hourago
Mostpostsinheregetmybloodbooing,butthisisawholeotherlevelofanger.Howcan
theyleavemedicaldecisionsuptosomerandomlady?
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Probablyanewmissionpresident,andthisisnowhereneartheseverity,butmybrother
alsoservedinPortland.Hehadseverebackpainandwasgivenasimilarrunaroundand
toldto'dosomestretches.'
AnotherbrotherservedinUtahandhadseveremedicalissueswithhisfeet.Whenhecame
homehehadtohavenumerousdoctorandspecialistvisitstorepairthedamageasthey
wereleftuntreated.
Thelackofhealthcareinmissionsisappallingespeciallyconsideringtheobedienceculture
andthefactthatthesekidsaresacrificingtimeandmoney.Fewthingsmakememore
angryaboutthechurch.I'msosorryyouhavebeenapartofthisproblem.
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[] AarBearRAWR 3points1hourago
Ican'tofferyouanylegalcouncil,asIamnotwellversedinthelawtodoso.AllIcanoffer
asanexMormonmyself,andahumanbeing,ismysincerecondolencesandwellwishesfor
youandyourfamily.Nooneshouldeverhavetogothroughsomethinglikethis.Iamso
sorry.
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[] JohnnyReeko 3points1hourago
OfcoursethisisasensitiveissueandIcan'tevenbegintounderstandwhatyoumust
goingthroughsoIhaverestrainedmyselfinwhatIwasgoingtosay.Instead,I'lljustsay
thatthissituationisjustmessedup,bigtime.
I'mnotanexmormon,Ijustsawthisonthefrontpageanditmademereallyangry
readingit,particularlyyourmothersattitudetowardsthewholething.
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[] Kumdogmillionaire 2points1hourago
Yourmomkilledhertoo
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[] makeswordcloudsagain 2points2hoursago
Hereisawordcloudofallofthecommentsinthisthread:http://i.imgur.com/h2wbe4y.png
sourcecode|contactdeveloper|faq
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I'msosorryforyourloss.
:(
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[] glaringoryx 3points2hoursago
Hey,Ihadanalmostexactsamethinghappentomeonmymission(withalesssevere
outcome,obviously)butitdidleavememaimedforlife.Iamanactivememberofthe
church,butthisisn'tatestimonyissuebutratherairresponsibleanddangerouspolicy
issue.Pleasepmmeifyouwanttotalk,Iamalsowillingtosharemystoryifyoufilesome
sortofclassactionlawsuit(notalawyer)toshowapatternofabuse.ThisisapolicythatI
absolutelyhate,andwouldlovetotalkwithyou.
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SomethinglikethiswouldbeinthenewsandI'mnotseeingit.IcallBSuntilyouhavea
newslink.
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[] big_dumb_jerk 1point2hoursago
Sue.Now.
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[] Jess_than_three 1point1hourago
That'sso,soawful.I'msosorryforyourloss.
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I'mcurioustoask,isthereanydocumentedproofofthis?newsstoriesaboutitprinted
anywhere,obituaries,etc?
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 2points1hourago
There'sanobituaryandmissionaryblogpostsonlineifyougooglewithVancouver,WA
(whichisveryclosetoPortland).Thedetailscheckout.
I'mbummedthatOPseemstohavegoneofflinewhileallthesuspicionwasswirling
she'sgoingtobecomingbacktoashitstormofinnuendowhenshegetsbackhere.
OP,Iamsosorryforyourloss,andIsupportwhatpeoplearetellingyouabouttaking
legalaction.Pleasesue.Thisisunforgivableneglect,andyouhavetheemailstoprove
it.
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Pleasedonotvoteorcommentwhenyoucomefrom
externalsubreddits.
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[] Reprobates 1point1hourago
Obituarylink?
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[] I_said_I_wouldnt 1point1hourago
Idon'twanttopostthelink,becauseIfeelthatOPwouldhaveincludedmore
solidinformationifshehadwantedto.Butifyougooglethebasicwordsofthe
storywithVancouver,WA,there'sathreadonexmormon.orgthatappearsright
atthetop.Thefirstrespondentpoststhemissionblogthattalksaboutwhat
happened,andIgoogledthedeceasedsistermissionary'snamefromthere.
Sorrytobesobackwardaboutit,butIjustdon'tthinkit'sfairtodoxxtheOP
overtlyhere.I'mbettingshe'sgoingtobeprettyhorrifiedwhenshelogsbackin
andseeshowmuchofarunawaytrainthisis,andIdon'twanttocontributetoo
directlytoherfeelingvulnerable,asshelikelywill.
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[] Burninator_89 1point1hourago
Lawyerup
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[] MarkyOchoa 2points1hourago
Wowthatissomesickshit.
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MynephewisservinginPortlandatthisverymoment.WonderifIshouldbringthisupto
myveryTMB,veryreactionarysister.Ofcourse,she'lljustagreewhilewe'reonthephone
andthenblowitalloff,becausethechurchisn'tcapableofdoinganythingwrong.
Ireallyhopeyoudofileasuit,becauseyoursisterisoneofwhoknowshowmanytheworld
haslostbecauseofunfitleadership.It'snotgoingtostopunlesssomeonemakesthem
responsible.
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[] Cistem 2points1hourago
fuckthisshit
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[] exmo88 1point1hourago
The'only'thingthischurchunderstandsis$$$.Hitthemwhereithurts,thenenjoyanice
retirement.
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[] wheep 1point1hourago
But,ourMomencouragedhertobeobedienttothemissionpresident'srules.
Ourmomdoesn'twanttopursueanyactionagainstthemissionpresidentbecauseshe
believesthatmaybeitwasGod'swill.
Whatthefiswrongwithyourmom?Mymotherwasalsohopelesslybrainwashed,andwas
soextremethatshewasexcommunicated.
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Ifyouaregoingtosue,yourmomshouldbesuedaswell.
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[] almale12 2points1hourago
Iamaretiredattorney.IhaveabrotherwhoservedonamissionforLDS.Iagreewiththe
Dr.Inthepostabove.Ifyoulike,Iwillgiveyoumyphone#Iwillgiveyoumyopinionon
thelegaloptionsyoumayhave.
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Unfortunatelythisisthesituationanytimeyouneedtoaskformedicalcare.Ipicked
someoneupfromanursinghometheotherday(I'manEMT),andhehadaskedforthe
previous3daystogototheERbutwasdenied.Hehadpneumoniaandwaspractically
drowninginhisownlungs.
Luckily,inmysituation,thereisreadilyavailablerecourse(throughthestatehealth
department).Youstillhaverecourse(throughlitigation).I'dsuggesttakingit.Non
medicallytrainedpeopleshouldnotbemakingmedicaldecisions.Youcouldpossiblysave
thelivesofmanymissionaries.
Hell,eventheworstinsuranceplansallowsforERvisits.It'dbestupidnotto.
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Primeexampleofhowfollowing"God'swill"or"theSpirit"canbesoscrewedup.
I'msorryforyourloss.
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[] fromkentucky 2points1hourago
GotothePressandfindagoodnationallawfirm.
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[] Dtrain323i 1point1hourago
Scorchedearthpolicy.Dowhatittakestomakethempay.
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[] relevantlife 1point1hourago
Hereisamissionaryblogfromlastyear.
ThesecondpostfromMay28thseemstoCONFIRMthestory.Incasethe"socalled"
churchcontactsthismissionaryandrequestsshetakeherblogdown,hereisascreenshot
ofthepost.
Also,thisobit:
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[] ignore_my_typo 1point1hourago
EditoutthepartaboutyourmominagreementwiththeMissionariesifyouplantotake
thistocourt.
You'dhaveahardtimeconvincingajurythatitwasthemthatyoursisterwasobeyingand
notyourmother.Ifyourmomsaidsheshouldn'tgototheDr.thenyourmotherisjusta
guilty.Itwillbemessy.
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[] flip69 1point1hourago
Thefactisthatshewasdeniedmedicalattentionafterrepeatedrequests.
Thatisabuse,mistreatmentandneglectthepeoplewhodidthisareresponsibleandthe
churchbyextensionforendorsingthem.
Stronglyperuselegalaction...doNOTbeintoimidatedbyeitherthechurchorthethreatof
thelawyers.Theyhavenopower,iftheydidthentheywouldbefirstinlineforbeing
responsibleforyoursistersdeath.
Theyarejustgoingtotrytocovertheirassesandpasstheblameontoothersiftheycan.
Yoursisterdidnotdeservetodieinpain...shedidnothingwrongandwasjustbornintoa
religionthatattemptstocontrolalltheirmemberseverymove.
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[] astralboy15 0points3hoursago
DISCLAIMER:Iinitiallypostedthis,thendeleteditoutofnotwantingtohurtany
feelings.Butthelackofanyobjectiveresponseshadmademetodecidetobringitback.
Beforeyoublamethemissionpresidentswifeobviouslythemissionpresidentswifehas
zeromedicalexperiencewhatdidyousisteractuallydiefrom?Ifitreallywasfroman
ongoinginfectionwhichIfindunlikelyconsideringthestory,hospitalsdon'ttendto
releasepatientsinanydegreeofsepsisthehospitalwouldbethefirstplacetocasta
stone.
WithouthavingallthefactsIfindthisstorykindoflike"missionpresidentkillselder
becausehetoldthemtogotractingandtheyknockedintoaserialkiller."Didyoursister
clearlyarticulatetothemissionpresidentswifethatthedoctorexplicitlytoldhertoseek
medicalattentionshouldseefeelunwell?Didyoursisternothaveafollowupappointment
withhersurgeon?AndasanRMIunderstandthatstigma,but,attheendofthedayyour
sisterwasanadultandthemissionpresidentswifereallydidnotstopherfromseeking
care,asisevidencedwhenshewenttotheER.
Iamsorryforyourloss.
Buttrytoconsidertheentiresituationbeforeyoudecidewhotothrowunderthebuss.
ObviouslyI'mjustquarterbackingfromtheinformationyouprovided,but,considerall
aspectsbeforeyoucastblame.Iunderstanditmustbesatisfyingtoblamea
church/representativeofsaidchurchwhenyouordisaffected,but,Ithinkyouneedtobe
moreobjectiveinyourevaluationofwhathappenedspecifically,whathappenedinthe
hospitalandthenafterbeforeyouclaimsomeonekilledher.
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Idon'tthinkthisisreallytheplacetoattackOPformisplacedanger.
Hospitalsaren'twithouthumanmistakesandaccidents.Whenaninfectionhasbeen
brewingforsolong,itcanbehardtoknowifit'stotallygone.Wedon'thavemedicine
downtoanexactscienceandalotofmedicineisjusteducatedguessworkbydoctors,
whichiswhytheycankeepyouinthehospitalforsolong,sotheycanmonitoryoufor
changes.Ifanything,it'smostlythemissionpresidentandhiswife'sfaultforsittingon
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theirassesforsolongwhiletheinfectiongotdeeperanddeeperintoOP'ssister.
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[] astralboy15 1point2hoursago
ThisiswhyIinitiallydeletedthecommentI'mnottryingtoattacktheOP,just
tryinghopefullygethimtoconsidereverythingbeforeheblamessomemission
presidentswife.Maybeshehadanadversereactiontotheantibioticsshewasgiven?
Maybeshediedduetoanunknown(andthereforeuntreated)medicalconditionshe
wasn'tawareof?Maybetheinstrumentsusedinsurgerywereneverproperly
sterilizeandthatiswhyshegotinfected?Whatifthoseinstrumentswereinfected
withvirusoranextremelyantibioticresistantbacteria?Maybethesurgeonused
unsteriletechniqueandthatiswhyshegotinfected?Andthesamegoesforany
numberofwaysshecouldhavedevelopedcomplicationstoIVmedsinthehospital.
Tosaythatthemissionpresidentswifekilledhissisterisnotaccurateifshediddie
duetocomplicationsfrominfectionlongstoryshort,organfailure.Perhapsone
couldclaimnegligence?I'mnotfamiliarenoughwiththelawtothrowoutanymore
specificterminology.However,whensomehashadsurgery,gotapostopinfection,
wasadmittedtothehospitalfor48hoursofIVantibiotics(whichisNOTalongtime
forsomeonewhoisseptic...,discharged,anddied48hourslater...guesswherethe
smokinggunis?
Nowtrythis:
[Missionpresidentswives]aren'twithouthumanmistakesandaccidents.When
aninfectionhasbeenbrewingforsolong,itcanbehardtoknowifit'stotally
gone.[Missionpresidentswives]don'thavemedicinedowntoanexactscience
andalotof[whatmissionpresidentswivesdo]isjusteducatedguessworkby
[limitedexperienceandpossibleconsultationwiththemission/areadoctor],
whichiswhytheycankeepyouinthe[outworking]solong,sotheycanmonitor
youforchanges.Ifanything,it'smostlythe[surgeons/hospitals/admitting
physician]faultfor[mismanagingthepatient]whiletheinfectiongotdeeperand
deeperintoOP'ssister.
AsmanyproblemsthatIhavewiththechurch,andasmuchasIcanlovethissub
sometimes,itneverceasestoamazemetheconfirmationbiasusedbytheposters
hereomgsomethinghappenedtoamissionaryandInolongerlikethechurch,it's
thechurchesfault!Burnthewitches!
Again,OP,I'msorryforyouloss,noonedeservestoloseasiblingtosuch
circumstancesandatsuchanage.Mythoughtsarewithyou.
I'vesaidmypiece.I'mdonewiththisthread.
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IdontdisagreewithyouIdoubtthemissionpresidentORhiswifewastrying
tobemalicious.However,someoneDIED.Thatisnotsomethingyoucanshrug
offas"Ididntknowbetter!"
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[] astralboy15 1point1minuteago
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
Iagree.Butthosewithgreatertraining(inthiscasemedical)shouldbeheld
toahigherlevelofaccountability(thehospital/attendingphysician(s),the
surgeon).
Forexample,"sistersoandsoIhaveabackache""ok,takesomeadvil"......
boom,dissectingabdominalaorta,thenruptureanddeathseveraldayslater
couldshereallybeexpectedtohaveanyideaaboutanyofthat?
WhatwereallyneedtoknowisexactlyhowmuchinfoMPwifehad.Without
thatthisisawitchhunt.Maybeallshewastoldis"mymouthhurt"
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Idon'tthinkheis.Therewasagravemistaketodeclinecareforsure,butthe
outcomemayormaynothavebeendirectlythefaultoftheMP'swife.Notthatany
ofthismattersbecauseitcouldbeallmadeupatthispoint.
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[] Captain_Blue_Shell 2points1hourago
Idon'tthinkthisisreallytheplacetoattackOPformisplacedanger.
Yeah,thisistheplacetoattacktheLDSChurchformisplacedanger.
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[] thebumm 4points2hoursago
Well,asadefender(normally)aswell,theMOSTIcouldsaytothisistheMPorMP's
wife,notthehospital.You'reaskingforissuesifyouignoreconstantpain,especially
sincethedentistthedoctordirectlyrelatedtosaidpainspecificallymentioned
seekingtreatmentiftherewasanypain.Thehospitalcanonlyseeandfixsomuch.
Theymaybeliableforsomething,buttherootoftheissueisindeedontheinaction
counteractionoftheMPandwife.
SomythoughthereisMPandMP'swifesecuredtheirplaceunderthebus,andseeking
legalactionagainstthembywayofthechurchistheonlywaytogetthemoutandany
furtherdamagestopped.
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[] astralboy15 3points2hoursago
Unlesstheydidn'tdoanythingwrong?
OPnevergaveusarealcauseofdeath"infection"isridiculouslygeneral.Whenyou
getsepticyoudon'tdiefromthefactthatyouhavebacteremiameaning,bacteria
intheblood,and48hoursforaturnaroundonabloodculturesisridiculouslyfast,
really,sounlesstheywereusingsomerealtimePCR(whichIHIGHLYdoubt),this
storydoesn'tsoundlikesepsisanditssequelaeyoudiebecauseyouget
hypotensiveandgointomultipleorgandysfunction.Whichanynoncriminally
negligentphysicianshouldbeabletodiagnoseandobtainprompttreatment.
Andwhathappenedtoherpostoperativecheck,aprettystandardprotocolfollowing
surgery.
Toblamethemissionpresidentswifeofbeinginthewrongwe'dreallyneedto
assumethatshehadfullknowledgeofthesituationhowmanymissionpresidents
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wivesaretrainedinpostoperativecare?Wouldn'tanonmedicallytrainedpersons
naturalassumptionis"youarejusthavingnormalpostoperativepain."Wasthe
missionpresidentswifetoldofthesurgeonspostoperativeprecautions?
Iseethissituationasbeingthesameasabosswhotellstheiremployeetogoahead
andtakeacoupleofdaysoffbecausetheyarefeelingsickandthentryingtosue
thebosswhenthatemployeediesfromcomplicationsassociatedwithaischemic
bowelorsomething.
Itsreallyeasytoblamethechurch.That'stheconfirmationbiaseveryoneisalways
harpingonabout,right?It'shardertobeobjective.
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[] thebumm 4points2hoursago
NoIseeitasakidwhohasbeensickaskinghisteachertogotothebathroom
andtheteachersayingno.Thekidaskingagainandtheteachersayingno,then
thekidhavingdiarrheaonthefloor.Oryourexampleoftheemployee/employer,
theemployertellingtheemployeetoignoresymptomsandsuckitupbecause
it'saworkday.
Healthshould100%ofthetimetrumpanythingelse.Ifyouareinpainafter
anyoperationthereareprotocolsinplace.Thisone,thedentistsaidexplicitlyto
seeadoctorinthecaseofpain,andthatright,thataction,wasdeniedbythe
MPandwife.Theprotocolwasignored.IftheMP/wifedidn'tknowofthe
dentist'sdirectionandprotocolsthat'sevenMOREonthem,becauseiftheyare
inchargeof"givingpermission"toseemedicalprofessionalstheyshouldhaveall
theinformationbeforemakingadecision.
WhenIwenttocampasakidIwasaskedformymedicalissuesorallergiesor
medicationsothistypeofthingwouldn'thappen.IftherewasanissueIwas
askedifitwasrecurring,whatmyparentsordoctorsdidinthepast,andthe
historywouldbereviewed.WhenIsaid"MydoctorsaidifXhappens,Ishoulddo
Y"IwasnottoldtodoZandforgetitasthisyoungladywas.
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[] hitchcocklikedblonds 3points1hourago
Yeah,theMPandhiswifearecertainlyatsomefault.
Ifayoungpersoncomestoyouandsaystheyareinpersistentpain,you
takethemtothedoctor.IteachuniversityandIhavesentstudentstothe
doctorbeforebecausetheymentionedapersistentpainordidn'tlookwell.
Oneofthekid'sendeduphavingmeningitis.
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[] thebumm 3points1hourago
Healthisjustnotsomethingtotakelightlyonanylevel.Asapersonina
respectedpositiontoignoresomethinglikethat,orworsetodismissit...
justnotgoodatall.It'sonethingtotakeitseriousandhavethedoctor
betheonetosay"You'recomplaining,it'snotabigdeal"buttohavea
specificplaninplacefromthedoctorandtojustdismissitlikethatis
indefensible.Therecouldbemorefaulttogoaround(maybethedentist,
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maybethehospital)buttheblametomecertainlyhastogonearlyallon
theMPandhiswife.
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[] hitchcocklikedblonds 2points1hourago
Iagree.IteachyoungADULTSandIwouldneverstoponeofthem
fromleavingclassiftheyfeltillorwereinpain.
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[] thebumm 1point1hourago
Nottopileon,butyouhadapointIdidn'treallytouchonthatIprobablyshould
haveaddressed,andIapologize.
YourpointthatOPneverspecifiedacauseofdeathisvalid.However,causeof
deathinthiscaseactuallydoesn'tmatter.WhatMPandwifedidwronginthis
caseisdenyaccesstoahealthcareprofessional.WhileOP'ssister'sdeathcould
becompletelyunrelatedtohertoothissues(notlikely,butpossible)avisitto
thedoctorwouldhaveraisedherchancesoffinding/addressing/curingany
problemshemayhavehad,ifevenslightly.Thefactisn'tthattheydidn'tallow
hermouthpaintobeassessed,butthattheydidn'tallowanythingtobe
addressedatall.Thatisbadonitsown,whatevertheautopsyfinds.Butyes,I
dobelievetheCODwillberelatedandthatmakesitsomuchworseconsidering
howmuchtimeandhowmanywarningswereignoredanddismissedbythosein
apositionofpowerandtrust.
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[] astralboy15 1pointjustnow
MPswifeallowedhertohavesurgery.
Butbottomline,missionariesareadults..
AndIhatetodothis,butfollowthatlogicisthemomalsotoblame?Surely
themomhadfulldisclosureonthesituationandstillsaidtonotgotothe
Dr...Justsayin'.Ifwerecastingblame,castitfairly
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[] astralboy15 1point5minutesago
Thewholethingoraspecificpost?
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[] _hownowbrowncow_ 1points2hoursago
"God'swill"
/scansuniverse
Toall:"Don'tmasturbate.Andhershespecificallymustdieormyentireplanfails"
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[] UOUPv2 3points2hoursago
http://np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/32lyvr/my_sister_killed_on_her_mission_by_the_mission/?limit=500
62/64
4/14/2015
MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
PoorBaxter...
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Theydidn'tforcehernottogo.Shedidnotgoofherfreewill.Blameyourmotheras
well....
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MysisterkilledonhermissionbytheMissionPresident'sWifeinPortland:exmormon
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