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Materi Copas 1
Introduction
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The Listening-Reading method, also known as L-R, is a language learning technique which
focuses on understanding spoken and written language. The method was described in HTLAL's
epic L-R thread.
More systematically about L-R here. Written and compiled by aYa, the originator of the method.
Some links to resources as well. Her most complete notes on the subject in Polish here.
L-R (LR) is meant for awe riders. See flow as well.
LR for Grasshoppers - written by Volte.
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Preparation
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The language you are learning will be called L2, the language you are learning it in will be called
L1. The tools used for this method are the same as for the Shadowing method:
an audio recording in L2
the material which comes with the Assimil courses (not considered to be true LR by aYa
and many others - it's very different from using an audiobook)
Exercises
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2.
listening while reading L1 (for learning the meaning of the spoken words)
3.
listening while reading L2 (for learning to associate the spoken and written text)
4.
listening while reading L2 and mimicking the speaker (for learning to pronounce the
language, see Shadowing)
Suggestions
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Listen to about 80-120 hours of audio. This is best done by having 20-40 hours of new
material, and listening to each part of it three times. Switch texts if you can understand 5070% easily.
Don't be afraid to experiment and look for what fits you. For example, in a related
language it might be beneficial to listen with L2 text even when you can already hear word
boundaries, as some similarities might be easier to notice in the written form, while others
are noticeable in the spoken language. Forum member doviende has used it successfully
2. Materi Copas 2
The RL / LR learning method
*repeat with the next lines*
You may quickly notice that the translation is not very accurate. If
so, edit the translation as you go along - this helps you, and if you
give it to other learners after youre through, it helps them a lot too.
If you want a head-start, couple this method with using a wordfrequency generator. Create a word-frequency list from the text you
are going to listen-read (LR), learn the most frequent 100 words or
so, then use this method.
More detailed explanation and examples:
- First have two long texts (ex. long novels), one in your target
language and the same, very close (if possible) or directly-translated
text in a language you are fluent in. For very beginners of the
language it is very good to have grammar notes in the translation. I
can create direct translations and grammar notes for Faroese,
Scandinavian, and Icelandic for you if you want them.
E-texts (or texts stored as html pages, etc.) are the most useful for
major languages since you can then use a free, pop-up browser
dictionary (like Rikaichan for Japanese, or the site Lingocracy) to
get your literal translation, then you can have a real translation
alongside that. It is best to have the text so that one line is in the
target language then the same line directly beneath it is in your
language. Look here for good examples of both very close
translations, and inter-spaced texts.
If you know hardly anything about the language, the first 3 to 5
hours need to be translated word for word with some grammar
commentary, the way I did for French, English, and German for
Polish learners of the languages. Examples of literary texts for zero
beginners. To
download:http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_mountain/mLR/ai.7z
Examples of layouts:
One, two, three, four.
The longer the text the better. War and Peace, Harry Potter, The
Lord of the Rings, etc. Books that even if they arent long enough
by themselves, are part of a series and become long enough when
you read multiple in a row as long as they are in the same theme
and done by the same author. The most important thing is that you
love what you are reading, because you will pick things up faster
when you are very interested in the subject and know it well
already. The length also helps you to not be as tired by re-reading.
"I use The Little Prince, Camus, Kafka, Anna Karenina,
The Master and Margarita by Bulgakov, The Old Man
and the Sea, Andersens fairy tales, Lewis Carroll, A.A.
Milne.
I never get tired of them.
Personally I really love Vladimir Nabokov, Osamu Dazai, Sherlock
Holmes, Natsume Sousekis Kokoro, etc. so I do my best to find
those.
- If the language is new to you, get familiar with it. Read some
textbooks and grammar overviews (no intentional memorising of
anything, no doing grammar exercises etc. - this method heavily
focuses on do not force yourself to learn the language, it will
come naturally. All the people I have read so far who said it was
a waste of time, were focusing far too much on picking apart
sentences and being able to understand every word. Learn the
basics of pronunciation. One guy has learnt Cyrillic (and Russian)
kanji.
Furigana will handicap you in the long run, and after learning the
radicals kanji are extremely fast/easy to learn. Besides, you have
audio so furigana is completely unnecessary.
When I understand what Im hearing, I concentrate on kanji for a
moment - I dont stop listening, I listen and look at the sentence
written in kanji, I try to identify the components.
Any successful strategy of learning written forms of kanji boils
down to this: a. dissect kanji into components recurring in many
kanji b. name the components and use them as building blocks to
remember new kanji c. learn stroke order rules.
I NEVER learnt kanji as single entities. I always learnt words in
texts (audio + transcript + translation + pop-up dictionary). I never
memorized anything. I relied on comprehensible exposure.
I didnt care about the order of learning kanji or words/expressions,
how frequent or infrequent they are. I was interested in what a given
text meant (be it the title of a movie, a whole story or a novel). I
didnt care whether I forgot or didnt forget. I was sure to come
across them again in future texts.
Longer explanation of the method:
1. Read the text in your native language or a language you know
really well first, since you will only remember what you actually
understand. You should read the whole book beforehand, not just a
chapter or page. This is so you overall know what is coming up in
the book, and dont need to spend extra effort (thus weakening
language-learning concentration) by trying to decipher the plot
alongside actually trying to learn.
from the method and how much reading/listening actually gets done
in the same amount of time.
Q: Something strange Ive noticed. Im starting to think in French,
but it is just random non-sense. It will be lots of words, but it is like
a noun here a verb there, past participle her, no sentense just
random words. Maybe this is the first stage of thinking in French
subconsciously, I dont know. Ive never expierienced this before.
A: Thats exactly what happens in the incubation period. If you go
on L-Reading intensively, full sentences will start to pop-up sooner
rather than later. The brain is finding its way through the maze and
building up a coherent system.
To get to a stage called natural listening is:
Being able to understand the gist, while missing some words and
details, of reasonable audio in your target language you havent
heard before. News broadcasts and simple literature are good
examples. By simple literature, I mean for children, or by authors
known for having an approachable style, as opposed to the most
difficult authors that native speakers struggle with at first in
schools.
Reaching the natural listening stage can take from 10 to 30 (or
more) hours, depending on how familiar you already are with the
language, how intensively you can do this method, etc. One
English-native was able to understand 90% of completely new
Spanish texts after using this method for 10 hours a day, after less
than a week.
"I noticed something very interesting about intensive L-R (and then
natural listening) after a while (weeks), speaking (and writing for
Even if you are really good at a language, you will learn tons
faster with a translation and when you already know what is
going on than with only target-language material and seeing a
words you dont know and dont have enough context for to get the
meaning (plus you can get the wrong idea when you go only from
context with no translation).
When you are practising speaking, dont look at either of the
texts while you listen or repeat, this is because you will struggle to
read it as it looks like its written or as you have studied, instead of
how it should actually be said, and also because "speaking comes
from your own brain and not from a text that sits in front of
you." So you can just listen on headphones while you commute, do
chores, exercise, eat meals, etc.
Absolutely avoid listening or repeating after non-native speakers,
you will learn incorrectly. Concentrate not on what is difficult for
you (ex. sounds or letter combinations you cant make yet), but
what is easy for you. It usually takes 60-80 hours or more of
repeating practice, including wait time (where you listen to the
audio once before repeating it) in order to completely correctly
repeat simple phrases and short sentences.
- Its easier to use a word in your speech if youve heard it, rather
than just seen it in writing. "having conversations is not learning, it
is using what you already know."
Dont let the idea that you need to perfect everything keep you from
advancing. If youve done Step 3, then move on to Step 4 even if
you dont understandeverything. After youre done with this book,
youre off to LR several more anyway, so dont get bogged down
on your first book.
Example: L2 German, the book: The Trial by Franz Kafka, translated into Polish
by Bruno Schulz (his woman translated it to be exact), the translation is very
good and very faithful.
It took me 3 (three) days (30 to 35 hours of listening) to be able to understand
every single word in the book read in German by Gert Westphal.
What I knew before I started L-R:
I knew the book (I read it in Polish, Russian, etc) and loved it. I could recognize all
the German phonemes and their corresponding letter combinations. I was able to
recognize basic grammar structures (morphology and syntax). I could recognize
in speech and in writing the meaning of some 800 words. (probably less). (I
couldnt speak the language, I never try until I reach natural listening stage.)
As I had no parallel texts with matching chunks, I did the following:
I read a page in Polish, I listened in German and looked at the German text, I paid
attention to meaning, grammar, and letters-phonemes correspondence. Then
another page, and so on, until the end of the book. I understood almost
everything. It was the first day.
The second day: I only read in Polish and listened to the German reader and the
same time. I understood everything.
The third day I only listened to the German reader. I understood almost
everything.
I worked ten to twelve hours a day. I made 15-minute breaks every 45 minutes. I
did some physical exercises. I had three meals a day. I slept eight hours a day. I
was healthy.
And then I tested myself: I took a recording in German it was The Snow Queen
by Andersen. I hadnt read the story before, so I knew nothing about it. And I
understood it
ONE MORE THING: if youre unable to attach the (or at least some) meaning from
what youve just read to what youre LISTENING to, you cannot say it is L-R. I
would consider it pointless. Let me say it once more: L-R is not mechanical.
Why?:
Long texts are because then you get used to the manner of writing
the author uses (and the manner of speaking the reader uses). A
single author is much more likely to stick to certain sentence
patterns, repeat words, etc. and this is what helps your learning by
context even when you havent studied the language before.
The faster it is to glance between the two languages, the easiest this
method is to learn from.
"The layout of the texts to learn is very important.
Sensory memories - visual (iconic) and auditory
(echoic)- are very short and disappear within a
second, so you get lost when you have to look for
words, they should CONSTANTLY be within your eyes
and ears reach."
"Imagine youre a biologist and youve been crossing frogs with
snails and cloning sheep since you were in cradle its your life,
you know hell of a lot about it, it makes you happy and you cant
imagine your life without it. One day you discover theres a
wonderful new theory on how sheep can be grown into lions.
Unfortunately its in the clitty-titty language, and you dont know it.
So you decide to learn the wonderful clitty-titty in a day or hang
yourself.
Notice two points:
you know almost everything about the subject and youre in love
with it.
The texts in clitty-titty will be self-explanatory and highly
enjoyable, you wont get tired (on the contrary, youll get happier
and happier) and youll guess the meaning of at least half of the
sentences in clitty-titty.
And now a real life example: La principessa, a teenage girl, is in
love with Harry Potter, shes been reading the books time and again
and knows them by heart. She decides to become a witch herself: to
go to Hoggwart, she must learn English in a week to prove shes
worthy.
Looking around for torrents will probably help you a lot. Also, at
least for larger languages, there are websites for native speakers to
learn English (or other languages), with parallel texts. The
translation is usually not very direct, so you will need to fix that
yourself. An example for Japanese is here.
- Some will require enlisting a friend who lives in the country or
speaks the language, such as if the audio or book only exists in the
library then they can check it out and rip the sound or take photos of
the book pages for you, or advertise on used-item sites for you etc.
Other people have had luck messaging random native speakers on
Tumblr to ask for recordings.
- Sometimes libraries for the blind/dyslexic/old people have tons of
audiobooks or ebooks and will grant you access if you ask specially,
but some countries are extremely strict (such as Iceland and
Sweden) and wont let you have access unless you actually fit their
requirements.
- You may have luck searching newspaper archive sites for stories
since some countries used to publish translated stories in periodicals
- thats how I found a lot of Sherlock Holmes stories in Icelandic
and Swedish. However it will be in older language most likely, so
either you should know enough to be able to tell the difference, not
care (especially if you plan to read that kind of literature a lot), or
get someone to modernize it for you.
- Some countries price audiobooks and/or ebooks as the same exact
price as a physical book, but rest assured if it says ebook it is an
ebook even if the price is the same cost as a physical book.
- They dont always sell English versions of the book at the same
store as target-language versions, or audiobooks at the same store as
In this post I am discussing the reading & listening method to learn languages. I
came across with this method on the language forum how to learn any language a
great source of inspiration for language learners.
The reading & listening method (R-L) consists in reading a text while listening its
audio version. Here is a summary of the main steps:
1.
During the first step of the R-L method the language learner uses an audiobook in the
target language and a text in his own language or a language with which is familiar. The
first step, reading the text translated in your own language, allows the language learner
to listen and read the text in the second step without having to stop to check the
dictionary.
2.
In the second step the language learner hears the audiobook in the target language
but he reads the text in the same language.
3.
In the third step the language learner tries to repeat loudly the text while listening to
the audiobook.
Ultimately, the language learner gets a lot of exposure to the target language and
should be able to get a feeling for the language.
I immediately liked this method because it is no based on learning grammar and
allows you to use reading material that you are interested in, at least when you
achieve an intermediate level.
Sounds great but does it work?
I am currently testing this method; in this first post I will describe my first
impressions and results after about 5 days of using intensively this method and in the
next posts I will give further information and a final assessment of the pro and cons
of the method.
The first texts that I have used to implement the L-R method are Grimm brothers
fairy tales which are available for free on internet (the copyright has expired)
together with audio versions. The main issue with this material is that the stories are
too short, and the L-R method work better with long text as it is main objective is to
provide a lot of exposure to the language.
Then I used The little prince. It was easy to find both the German version (target
language) with an audiobook and an English version of the text. I listened the whole
book in two sessions. Similarly to Grimm brothers fairy tales, this book turned out to
be way too short to provide the right amount of exposure to the target language
(German in my case).
Now I am using the first book of the Harry Potter series. This seems to work well,
the book is enough long to provide a lot of exposure to the target language. I almost
finished the book and I can notice an improvement in my reading comprehension of
German but not yet any improvement on listening and speaking. I still have not
implemented the third step of the method, where one repeats loudly the text after
listening the audiobook, and this step could be the one that helps speaking improving
speaking skills.
Peter
Sumber http://www.creativityandlanguages.com/2011/03/testing-thereading-listening-method-r-l/
4. MATERI COPAS 4
If youre not already learning Japanese, this will go way over your head. You
have no translation (old information) to connect it to. Its gone.
As the experiment says, your brain cant process new words/phrases it has no
prior knowledge of.
But if you have the translation and can read along as you hear it now
you have something to connect it to. You instantly understand it. And next time
you hear it again, youll know it. So, what you heard was:
Play it again. Now you have the 1) transcript that you can read with and 2) the
translation. You know exactly how its said, how it sounds, what it means and
how to say it.
You just learned a phrase.
Youve learned some language.
I call this the listen & reading along method.
Alright, how do you apply this to language learning?
There are many ways to start a language. Most beginners start with reading a
textbook. They get good at reading at grammar but their listening & speaking
skills suck. Why? They put 100% effort into reading and 0% effort into listening
and speaking.
Its just a matter of what skills youre practicing and how you choose to start.
Theres no wrong way. But remember, if you practice only 1 thing, youll only get
good at that 1 thing.
Heres how you apply this.
Start learning with Audio Lessons, Video Lessons, Podcasts thats the first
step. I recommend the Pod101 Online Language Courses . However, you
ABSOLUTELY must have the translations and scripts for everything you hear
so you can read along and instantly understand.
Heres the process.
Once you hear the phrases, your ear becomes trained for it.
However, you dont yet understand it because your brain has no prior
information to relate it to.
Once you know its meaning, you associate the sound to its meaning.
And when you hear the phrases again, youll know what it is.
Your brain now relates most recent information the meaning you just
learned.
However, if you dont HEAR it first, you wont know what to listen
for. And thats pretty much how conversation flows for beginners. They pick out
words they already know in a conversation and, boom, they know what theyre
being asked.
But reading a word first, and THEN hearing it in a conversation wont
help you identify it. Reading and speaking are two different things. Reading
doesnt train your ear to hear native Japanese conversation. And heres the key
point:
Conclusion:
Reading along gives you the meaning & makes an instant connection with
its English translation