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Junaid A. Malik
Yesterday at 4:42am

Even though this case is from Palm Beach county and probably about a Jewish couple, but I am
sharing it on RSOP because it reminded me of an incident in Pakistan where a friend of mine was
declared infidel for refusing to get his newborn son circumcised. His family and friends stopped
talking to him and he was left totally isolated. Eventually he surrendered and his son got circumcised.
The Questions are:
- Why circumcision is considered so important in Islam, when it hasn't been mentioned in Quran
anywhere?
- How this idea got so famous and why people get declared infidel for not following this religious
trend?
- More importantly, what's wrong if someone who calls himself a Muslim and recites Kalima, refuses
to get his son circumcised?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com//fl-circumcision-mother-court-

Mom signs consent for son's circumcision to get out of jail but now faces
new criminal charge
After years of fighting to stop her son from being circumcised, a West Boynton mother on Friday signed her consent
for the procedure moments after a judge...
SUN-SENTINEL.COM|BY SOUTH FLORIDA SUN-SENTINEL

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13 people like this.

Mohit Vats allah created man in best of mould , may be sura 96 verse 4 i ndont know , that means : either allah is
lying or foreskin is essential part not to be detached
Yesterday at 4:49am Like 2

Zeeshan Waraich Circumcision is Sunnah. So, refusal to do circumcision does not become kufr. However, it is
completely adopted in society, it has become sensitive issue.
Yesterday at 7:05am Like

Junaid A. Malik Zeeshan Waraich kindly elaborate, why you are calling it a sunnah.
Yesterday at 7:07am Like 2

Zeeshan Waraich It has always been Sunnah. If you think it is fard, please tell me where did you read? Could you
quote a single hadith where it is emphasized?

Yesterday at 7:09am Edited Like

Zeeshan Waraich http://islamqa.info/en/9412

Circumcision: how it is done and the rulings on it - islamqa.info

Could you tell us what circumcision is and how and...
ISLAMQA.INFO

Yesterday at 7:09am Like Remove Preview

Junaid A. Malik Zeeshan Waraich I have simply asked you to explain why you are calling it sunnah. I wanna know
the reason and logic behind this concept.
Yesterday at 7:23am Edited Like

Zeeshan Waraich I am still not able to understand your question.

OK, please explain to me what is your justification to call something as "Sunnah".
I will answer you based on your answer.
Yesterday at 7:24am Like

Zeeshan Waraich BTW, the word Sunnah is a Islamic term and only Islam can mention what is Sunnah and what is
not.
Yesterday at 7:26am Like

Junaid A. Malik I have no justification. I didn't say it is sunnah or not. You said it. I have simply asked you to explain
why you are calling it sunnah. Just explain your version, whatever it is.
Yesterday at 7:26am Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich BTW, the word Sunnah is a Islamic term and only Islam can mention what is Sunnah and what is
not.
Yesterday at 7:27am Like

Zeeshan Waraich When we talk about Sunnah, it is defined in Islamic frame of knowledge. So it is obvious that Islam
considers it as Sunnah, so it is Sunnah.
Yesterday at 7:33am Like 1

Junaid A. Malik For your convenience, here is the text book definition of sunnah.
Now can you elaborate why you are calling circumcision as sunnah?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah

Sunnah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sunnah is the way of life prescribed as normative for Muslims on the basis of the teachings and practices...
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

Yesterday at 7:35am Like


Brijinder Singh Why a person can not decide for himself how to raise their children? I was born a sikh yet chose to
be atheist,no one did anything,except mild rebukes from elders. I didn't force my children to share my atheistic views.
Tried to raise them as good responsible human beings.
Yesterday at 7:56am Like 1

Jonathan RdelaHaza This court case is utterly appalling. I cannot begin to understand the justice system's logic
here. How can violating a person's human rights be justified under any religion?
Yesterday at 8:05am Edited Like 1

Brijinder Singh And it doesn't stop there...islam is a no exit belief system.A muslim has no freedom to leave it...the
punishment is death..only religion in world to do so.
Yesterday at 8:08am Like 1

Bintey PreziosoGoogle says, there are some potential medical benifits of circumcision in term of slightly lower the
risk urinary tract infection (UTl) in lill boys, certain sexually transmittrd infaction in men. And Penil cancer.
Now the question is why it is Sunnah?
Roghly stating the answer:- Ap (S.A.W) ne hamesha jis kaam ki tableegh ki, Pehly usko khud pe orr apni family pe
apply kiya. (Do's n Don'ts called sunnah in one line defination)
According to Dr Zakir Nike. Its ur choice, if u do it well n gud, if u dont, as u WISH. Its sunnah not an Obligation.
(when he was asked by the newly converted muslim lad)
Yesterday at 8:33am Like

Mashal Yousafzai Current day circumcision is a modified form of a ritual of ancient Greek mythology carried out to
please goddess of lust.
23 hrs Like 1

Naila Khan Zeeshan Waraich Junaid A. Malik is asking your reasons for saying it is sunnah. For something to be
sunnath does the Prophet s.a.w not have to 'practiced' it? If he taught this but not practice that can still be sunnah but
i think Junaid is asking you to give the history behind it. I am also curious... we have a general rule here which is the
one who speaks has to substantiate it
22 hrs Like 2

Naila Khan From what you have posted Zeeshan Waraichit appears it is sunnah of Ibrahim. Prophet Muhammad was
tols by Allah to follow the steps of ibrahim a.s. but his practices are not considered sunnah of Prophet Muhammad
s.a.w. so can you give reasons why it is considered to be his practice or teaching.
22 hrs Like 1

Muhammad Auqil Bhatty Zeeshan Waraich saheb How can circumcision be a sunnat when our dear Prophet was
born "makhtoon", ie naturally circumcised. And so did the Rightful Imams.

21 hrs Like 3

Bilal Qureshi Sunnah means Prophet done it ?

21 hrs Like 2

Sehar Noor Sunnah means if Holy prophet has done or said something. Was he himself circumcised???
21 hrs Like 2

Junaid A. Malik Usually they say that circumcision is sunnah of Ibrahim and according to authentic books of hadith,
Ibrahim circumcised himself at the age of 80.
Fair enough ... but then Muslims should also follow the exact sunnah and circumcision should be performed at the
age of 80 isn't it?
Why they do that in early childhood?
14 hrs Like 3

Zeeshan Waraich Sunnah is defined by Islam, not by atheist and secularist. So, all Muslim agrees that it is Sunnah.
3 hrs Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich Sunnah is much wider term that what you understand I do not see why I should explain Islamic
epistemology to the people who do not see themselves as Muslims.
3 hrs Like 1

Brijinder Singh Zeeshan Waraich,a very weak and laughable comment. If you are unable to explain or are ignorant
about it, just say it but saying that you are not obliged to explain it to those who don't consider themselves muslims is
ridiculous.
3 hrs Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich Calling a comment very weak and laughable does not make it so. And just because you feel that
something is ridiculous is does not make it ridiculous either.
The fact that every time you feel that you are on "judge's seat" make you ridiculous.
3 hrs Edited Like 1

Brijinder Singh Zeeshan Waraich, when anyone can't argue and looks for lame way outs,that is ofcourse laughable.
If you really know the answer,try enlightening us all.
Ridiculous comments do evoke Riducules. I am not alone in that,I hope. Whosoever reads your reply would comment
like that.
Well,humour apart,kindly do tell us the reply to Junaid's poser.
3 hrs Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich1. when anyone can't argue and looks for lame way outs. ---a false and stupid accusation
from Brijinder
2. If you really know the answer,try enlightening us all. ---I chose not to. I do not see any benefit in explaining the
meaning of Sunnah to those who do not associate themselves with Islam. Sunnah works within Islamic frame of
knowledge.
3. Ridiculous comments do evoke Riducules.--- That's not the case. Any comment that makes you wrong evokes
ridicules.
4. I hope. Whosoever reads your reply would comment like that.--- A comment of self centered and self righteous man
who think everybody is stupid enough to think exactly like him.
5. humour apart,--- Wow....Kudos to your sense of humor grin emoticon
6. kindly do tell us the reply to Junaid's poser.-- I chose not to. Do you think you can compel by any of the group
rules.
The initial post was about compelling someone for circumcision. Just because you and Junaid A. Malik fail to argue
with me, you want to change the topic to meaning of Sunnah, why should I follow your suite?
What I have observed your pattern in this group is like this.
Brijinder Singh fails to argue. Ridicule and make comment on personality rather than argument. The other person
reacts in the same way, admin jumps in and block that person. It is so simple.
3 hrs Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich After a long time I just thought of participating in this group and found Brijinder ready to receive me
with his bullying spree in full swing.
I am predicting that in the next step you will present a long chargesheet against Islam in every thread that I am going
to participate and insist that I should respond to all those mindless accusation then and there.
2 hrs Like 1

Brijinder Singh Zeeshan Waraich, now you are crying foul when confronted with your lame logic that you wouldn't tell
to someone who doesn't call himself muslim.
Why do then muslims try to proselytize if they get squirmy when asked pointed questions?
Have you seen any rationalist making such arguments? Seen any scientist taking shelter of such arguments when
asked pointed questions by peers?
2 hrs Like

Brijinder Singh"When anyone can't argue and looks for lame way outs" what is false and stupid about it,in the light of
you first arguing with Junaid A. Malik on same sunnah but when you were left with no argument,you came out with
your spiel of not answering to those who don't consider themselves muslims..
Why then are you on this forum when you would refuse to answer the questions about islam posed by non muslims?
Again a valid question!
2 hrs Like

Zeeshan Waraich1. now you are crying foul when confronted-- I justified my points with logic. Just because it
exposes your mentality does not make it crying foul.
2. with your lame logic-- You are yet to prove it that it is lame logic. As I mentioned earlier do not keep yourself on
"judge's seat". Fantasies are very personal domain.
3. that you wouldn't tell to someone who doesn't call himself muslim.-- Of course, Sunnah is practice based on Islamic
faith. So, if someone do not have pre-requisite, what is the uses of getting into that discussion.

4. Why do then muslims try to proselytize if they get squirmy when asked pointed questions? ---And these questions
comes from a person who is incapable of making a single logical argument. All the question that is coming from a
brain that can't stay on a single topic.
5. Have you seen any rationalist making such arguments? -- A true rationalist would always make logical argument
and accept the logical argument. What made you to feel that person like you can talk on behalf of a rationalist? And
since when you start getting such feelings in your brain? Almost all your comments are based on attacking and
ridiculing other party rather than making a logical argument. So, don't insult human intelligence by presenting yourself
a speaker on behalf of rationality.
6. Seen any scientist taking shelter of such arguments when asked pointed questions by peers?---excellent, so you
are now fantasizing scientist LMAO.. that makes are perfect Brijinder Singh
2 hrs Like 1

Brijinder SinghZeeshan Waraich, instead of i replying to your "charges" ,let others read our interaction and make up
their minds. You are nit able to substantiate your charges but I have substantiated what i said. Claim is NOT proof,my
friend! Know that.
When you don't know the difference between example and taking it literally,what more should i say.Care to tell us,how
you construed that i considered myself a scientist by citing their example? ?
2 hrs Edited Like

Shaikh Farrukh Saleem Islam get this from Jews as its the 1st monotheist religion in that area.
2 hrs Like

Zeeshan WaraichBrijinder Singh.

If at all readers have to make their own decision, you should not have started bullying in the first place. The very fact
that you started with your bullying shows that you did not wanted readers to make their own mind. Moreover,
even now when you agree that readers have to make up their mind, your mental impulses could not stop you from
making the statement like //You are nit able to substantiate your charges but I have substantiated what i said//
2 hrs Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich Shaikh Farrukh Saleem

Both Islam and Judaism got this practice from Prophet Abraham.
2 hrs Like 1

Zeeshan Waraich Moreover, to be precise, the practice actually existed in Pre Islamic Arabic. So, the accurate
statement is that Islam got this from pre-Islamic Arabic. However, unlike many other practices Islam affrimed this
practice instead of stopping.
2 hrs Like 1

Brijinder SinghZeeshan Waraich, it seems you are bent upon making yourself a butt of ridicule by belligerently trying
to justify your "refusal to reply to who don't call themselves muslims"!!
This is NOT a deeni/tableeghi forum but rationalist society where you can'ttake the refuge of not answering just
because the questioner "doesn't call himself muslim " and while you were arguing with the same "who doesn't call

himself muslim " on the same subject.

Now don't prolong your cry baby act and don't try to deflect .
1 hr Edited Like

Zeeshan Waraich// it seems you are bent upon making yourself a butt of ridicule by belligerently trying to justify your
"refusal to reply to who don't call themselves muslims"!!// Look, your "judge spree" is ever active. grin emoticon
There is no such rule in this group that compels a muslim to answer "All the questions" that is asked.
Yes, this is rationalist group and that does not make it a tool of a "trolling admin" who believe that he can talk on
behalf of rationalism and science.
1 hr Like

Brijinder Singh Beyond me now...

Haider Shah Junaid A. Malik
1 hr Edited Like

Bintey Prezioso Good going Zeeshan Waraich, at least you are arguing with an atheist in a logical way. like emoticon
1 hr Unlike 1

Zeeshan WaraichBrijinder Singh //Beyond me now...// This actually reflects your mind. You think that you have
responsibiliy of keeping everything "within you" and thus you take it as your responsibility to defeat anyone who talk
on behalf of Islam.
There are many things in life which are beyond you and beyond me. Defeating others by using whatever mean is not
your task. Neither I consider it as my task to talk for Islam everytime and everywhere.
I refused to reply on explanation of Sunnah just because I knew that thread will turn in multi topic and so long that it
will be "beyond me".
I do not burden myself with the monumental task of become saviour of Islam. So, do not overburden you by trying to
become saviour of science and rationality.
Just learn to accept that there are many things that is beyond us.
Chill and life will be much more beautiful grin emoticon
45 mins Like

Muhammad Auqil Bhatty Jews adopted circumcision probably from the Ancient Egyptian Worshipers of Astarte/
Eshther.
24 mins Like

Jonathan RdelaHaza I take it we are not talking about the United States anymore tongue emoticon
23 mins Like

Zeeshan Waraich Muhammad Auqil Bhatty

As usual everything is connected to something that is called "ancient" grin emoticon
20 mins Like 1


Muhammad Auqil Bhatty Indeed, just like Hajj, Prayers, Fasting etc. We have to realize that Islam was not the
beginning of everything. Allah has been and still is taking care of things non-Muslim.
16 mins Like 1

Jonathan RdelaHaza What on earth is the virtue of things being ancient? This is the 21st century for crying out loud!
15 mins Like

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