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must be very strong support for the heroes of Tiananmen for even the
Communist spies not to be reporting it.
Q. According to news reports, the recent vast expansion of telephone service
and fax machines in China played a big role in keeping the people informed and
circumventing the government "news."
A. Oh yes. The modernized equipment helped a lot to allow the people to have
the truth, and, more important, allowed the truth to get out to the rest of the
world. Thank God we have it. It is really helping the democracy movement. I'll
tell you one example. On June 4th my neighbors received a directly-dialed long
distance telephone call from U.S. friends asking them if the killings they were
seeing on U.S. television were really happening. We confirmed for them that
they were, and gave them much more details besides. Many people were
sending reports by fax to friends in America, Hong Kong, Japan, and to other
parts of China.
Also, many more Chinese people have radios now and can listen to foreign
broadcasts like Voice of America, BBC, and others. And that's what they rely on,
since they don't trust the communist propaganda programs.
Q. But the people of China have no access to guns, correct?
A. There is no way to obtain guns legally or even illegally in China. The
government can kill you for having a gun. When the army started shooting us,
we wished we had guns. But we fought back with whatever we had: bricks,
bottles, sticks, bare hands.
Q. Did you see any troops join the people and turn against the army?
A. No, not personally, but I received many reports from friends who did. There
are many people in the military who supported the movement and who oppose
Li Peng and Deng Xiaoping, and who have revealed what happened there. When
the 27th Army was firing on Tiananmen, the 28th Army, I was told, was right
behind it. But many of the officers and soldiers in the 28th were sympathetic to
the people; and, when they saw the killing, they refused to fire on the people.
Many of them left their vehicles and tanks and let the people burn the vehicles.
Others simply shot their guns up into the air.
On June 4th the troops stationed along Jien Guo Men, the main street east of
Tiananmen Square, were not given any bullets at all. And after that they got
only seven bullets each, and it was recorded. It shows a tremendous distrust in
the army. The 38th Army had received telephone orders to bring troops to
Beijing, but the chief commander refused and was discharged. However, after
the new commander brought the troops into the city, they did not fire a single
shot, and there is much talk of dissension. Only Dang Xiaoping is holding the
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military together now. When he is gone, there will be ten separate, independent
military districts, so it will help set a base for a future democratic movement.
Q. Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of China?
A. I am afraid in the short term we will see much more repression there, more
executions, more killings, but I am optimistic for the more long term. The young
people are tired of Communism and do not believe its promises. But it's not only
the students. Hundreds of thousands of workers, government officials, teachers,
soldiers, police officers, and others also participated and supported the
movement for reform and freedom. It cannot be stopped. They can't purge and
kill all of them. After all of these lessons, it will only help us to make up our
minds with greater strength to fight for human rights, democracy, and freedom.
Q. How would you like to see the United States react?
A. The United States, the West, and the whole world should stop all military,
economic, political and diplomatic ties to China, to demonstrate opposition to
the regime. An international investigation should be launched to bring out the
truth about what happened and is happening. The Communist leaders should
not be able to murder people at will and still be accepted by the world
community.
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