Vous êtes sur la page 1sur 50

Page

TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed


June 4, 2015/2PM |1

REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES


NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
Quezon City
--------------------------------------------

TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed


-----------------------------------------TRANSCRIPT
OF THE STENOGRAPHIC NOTES TAKEN DURING THE TWG MEETING
ON JUNE 4, 2015 AT 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON, BEFORE ALL
CONCERNED OFFICIALS AND REPRESENTATIVE OF DIFFERENT
GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND STAKEHOLDERS
----------------------------------------

DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =


Good Afternoon everyone.

Again, thank you very much

for coming over. Hopefully, after todays meeting, we can


submit this to the Commission then after that tatawag na
sila ng Public Hearing to consider the entire document for a
possible promulgation. So, we have e-mailed to you the
copy of the revised rules and then we also have e-mailed
to you the copy of the comments from PCTO. And we have
received today comments from LIRNEasia which you have
copies already.

If you take a look the draft, we have

revised the definition of terms, hindi na po ginamit ang


lahat because hindi naman ginamit sa body of the rules,
yung proposed rules yung LP and the others hindi na
ginamit so hindi na sinama sa definitions. What we have
included the definition of terms na ginamit dito sa

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |2

(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
proposed circular, of course merong rules on offer,
measurements

and

metrics.

In

which

dito

sa

measurements and metrics, we have discussed this last


time. And in publication, we have noticed two options there
so kung wala talagang consensus dito is we will leave this
for the Commission decision then rules on refund, rules on
data volume copying and then rules on fair use etc. So, ito
po yung revised rules that were e-mailed to you. Perhaps,
we would request PCTO muna to present yung kanilang
comments. And then we request LIRNEasia also to send
their comments. And then we will discussed the entire
proposal. You will also notice yung subject is dinraft yung
term na minimum because we are not setting minimum
dito sa rules. So, please any comments from PCTO? Before
anything else, mayroon tayong bagong kasama dito. Let us
first introduce ourselves. Let us first start with Anthony.

MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =


Good afternoon. I am Anthony Fernandez of SMART.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Roy Ibay of PLDT and SMART.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
Eric Delos Reyes from TelCo PCTO.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
Mon Estrada of Globe.

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |3

MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =


Mary Grace Santos of LIRNEasia and Internet Society
Philippines.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Francis Acero of Democracy.net.ph.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
Tonette Grablo of Deromo Law Firm.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
And I am Edgar Cabarios and we also have Suzette Panes.
So, we have a new

stakeholder

from

Deromollo

Babanta Law office. She may have some inputs which we


may be able to use siguro in the process.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Good afternoon. We have submitted a position paper to
PCTO yesterday. And the gees actually of that position
paper which primarily deals with Paragraph C and
Paragraph D because Paragraph E, F and G were not
really the topic of our previous technical working group
discussion. We also have comments on that today but,
nonetheless, our comments in measurements and metrics
on Paragraph C are largely discussed on how our position in
unknown factors and metrics that the proposed or draft MC
includes. So, we even included the diagram which would
point to measurement, testing or metrics that will be limited

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |4

(cont.Atty.Ibay)

only to known points and to those points within the local


area network or land of the ISPs. We would like to propose
at any point outside the land even in the national network
or any unknown test points should be excluded. So this is
primarily the facts of PCTO is that we should be measure
only by those points or by within our networks where there
are less variables to attend with. The more variables we feel
would actually be unfair and might only distort the actual
quality of service that the TelCo or ISP providers providing.
So we should like to limit this to those conditions that
wireless put a limitary exposure to variables and unknown
points were supposedly the draft MC would like us to be
measure.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
So, Mr. Ibay, is it your proposal that the testing area is just
qualified and within the land?
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Yes.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
Okay. Is there any variance between what is going to be
advertised and what the consumer will be receiving if the
testing will be only within controlled? I think in other
jurisdiction, the purpose of testing is to provide, it is going

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |5

to be from the consumers point of view and not the TelCos.


So, how do you reconcile with saying that the testing area
should only within the land?

ATTY. ROY IBAY=


Okay. During the Technical Working Group Discussions, we
were actually talking about what would be the best wireless
or what would more or less preclude or more quote and
unquote accurate or a more credible from the consumers
point of view.

And then that actually came up in the

discussion between whether is there be a ratio between


unknown location and known location.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
Or a qualification.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Yes. We agree with the, first and foremost that the NTC
official metrics entity that we measure especially if it is
truth and advertising complaint validity of DTI or from DOJ.
But as to the

measuring the service provider from let us

say a point outside the network or from unknown locations


we felt as a first in the point of view of the providers it
would be better for us to be measure in known locations
and within the network. Because we feel that the more we
go further the way to our network and the more you set up
locations that are hidden and unknown there might be other
variables in between that might not just really reflect the

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |6

service that is being offered by the service providers. I think


some of our Engineers here are maybe in a better position
to discuss what I am talking.

MS. TONETTE GRABLO=


Maybe, I think the other jurisdiction is that they qualify the
testing based on the location where the ISP presently
provides its services. Because I guess, in their point of view,
if you claim that you provide that it is in the service area it
should be in a certain quality that is regulated by the
Commission. But again, I think, this is very preliminary and
you may discuss it again but I think you have been
vindicated you are okay with qualifying whether it is based
on the location.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Well, as you said, we proposed to the NTC that being the
official metrics that will provide an official metrics tools
that will conduct actual testing or measurements. We
proposed to the NTC that if we can be limited within the
network of the service providers being measured and at
the same time in known points or areas where at least we
feel that the variables are being eliminated and not totally
lessen. So that there would be more accurate testing or
measurement output that keep you delaying the process.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |7

Okay, thank you.


DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Well, measurements can be done within the networks in
local area.

(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
Sasabihin naman sa results na this is measured from the
local area or this is measured outside na etc. Sasabihin
naman dun ang results at ito yung conditions that were
present when the tests were made. So, ganon yung
gagawin so that they can compare. Kasi kung ang network
mo which you have full controls and mabilis ibig sabihin
ikaw yun. So, makikita sya. so i-specify sya.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
I-quaqualify lang.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
I-quaqualify lang na ito yan. The proposal is in that manner.
Sasabihin kung saan, etc.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
The provider will be informed accordingly.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Dalawa kasing proposal ito. One is yung point A kasi is
combination of known and unknown locations, yan ang
proposal. Hindi lang sya limited to known locations pero
kasama ang unknown locations. Ang rational doon is to get

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |8

a real picture of the network kasi hindi alam kung saan. But
perhaps, kung hybrid ang gagamitin is ilimit nalang ang
number of unknown locations. Let say 2% of locations will
be unknown and 80% for the known locations.

So, iyon

perhaps ang gagawin kung we agree on hybrid, the known


and unknown locations for Point A.

ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =


We just want again to be clarify as to what is the rational
behind having an unknown and known locations for the
test. What is the primary reason of having an unknown
location?
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
As what we have been doing for drive test, the location of
the test is really unknown. This is to prevent yung naprepare mo yan kaya ganyan and naging resulta etc. Just
to erase that impression. But it is different, it is broadband
and fixed ang location mo pa. Kaya nga sabi ko if we agree
on limitations of known and unknown is i-limit nalang natin
yung unknown locations. So, it is either all are known or
kung may unknown is i-limit nalang sya.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
So, is it for the purpose of profiling the quality of service of
a particular provider or is this for the purpose of addressing
a particular complaints?
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
June 4, 2015/2PM |9

When we do measurements it is not addressing complaints.


We do measurements, kasi regular ang measurements
nyan, ang proposal nga is it should be done at least twice a
week and results will released five days after the end of
each month. So, regular sya. It is not responding on the
complaint. It is regular measurements. We

(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
are not setting standards these are just for consumers
information, etc. Ito yung purpose nito. Hindi naman natin
sinasabi

na

you

are

below.

Ito

yung

resulta

ng

measurements at ito yung conditions when measurements


were done, etc. So, ito yung lalabas dyan. Yes, Grace?
MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =
Good afternoon everyone. LIRNEasia would like to repeat
what it has been saying to the last how many months that
whenever the NTC being the official entity that will conduct
the measurements for quality of service. We want to
reiterate that measurements locations should take it to the
account the last mile or the access network where the
consumers actually experienced internet service and not
as far away as. I mean, what is the obligation of the service
provider? The service provider has an obligation to the end
user, its subscribers. If you conduct a test and just do it on
a cabinet, actually, may experience akong personal na

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 10

tatawag ka kasi may problema yung internet mo, tapos


sasabihin sayo ng customer service representative okay
naman po sa cabinet namin walang problema. But still,
from the consumers end, problemado po talaga ang
connection. And I would like also to emphasize that it is not
unique to us in case we do this. In many countries, this is
how they do the test from the consumer end. So, what was
Atty. Ibay said on actual quality service, I would like to
clarify that this is actual quality of service should taken an
account what the consumers experienced.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
Tingnan mo yung last mile, hindi rin ako nagsusubscribe ng
merong cabinet and I do not think that it represents the
right one. But for trouble shooting purposes it should be
the cabinet we we measure on the consumer end. Kung
nasan yung device nya, and you will surprise on what will
you find out. Kasi it isolates the networks side from the in
building cabling side. In 80% of what we did is instigated,
60% of that 80% is coming from the in-house cabling has
gone bad. Unfortunately, that is not a being late out by the
service

provider.

For

example

from

the

high-raised

condominium, these are provider as part from it. Second


one is that meron isang instance na meron silang wifi,
interestingly, sa cabinet ok sya then sa wifi nya is bad.
When we checked it out, there is about eleven other people
working on the wifi. It tells out na wala syang password sa
wifi nya, so, all of his neighbors in the condo is practically

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 11

using it. So, that isolates that kind of situation. But in the
case of the government doing a measurement, I think we
should define what is the last line measurement point
consist of. And in the case na sinasabi nila Dir. Egay
kanina , it is practically you are measuring at that point to
where network provider is providing the service. And we
measure another point wherein it is outside of that so that
you can isolate. I think there is an agreement on that
premise.

DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =


Yes. And the measurements na nakalagay dito sa draft
would be done at the point na hindi sinasama yung sa
subscribers side, yung in-house cabling hindi na sinasama,
etc. Of course, it will not prevent the Commission from
measuring. Pero hindi iyon irerelease. Ang irerelease lang
is yung sa kontrolado lang para lang malaman bakit
nagkaganon. So, ito ang proposal na we have the
measurement, the point A of the measurement should be
conducted na nakalagay dito. Apat yan, for fixed wireless,
for fiber to the home, for DSL, for commercial cable and
cable TV.
MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 12

I just want to give an example of how in Singapore they


conducted test. There is a third party entity and I have
mentioned this before, the SamKnows. The SamKnows
boxes are being place in some residential areas. Of course,
with of the full knowledge of the methodology, meaning
the parameters by which the measurements will be done
and this is a voluntary computing but then there are
certain limitations and conditions that need to be present
or

complaint

with

by

those

volunteers.

And

what

SamKnows does is that they have a mobile vehicle that


goes around the city and this is how they basically
measure the consumers home, for example. And that is
one. And this methodology, although different from

(cont.Ms.Santos)
what LIRNEasia is recommending, the main point is the
same that you can do this testing up to the consumers
residence. So, that is just one way, Sir. You provide a box
and equipment to different houses some known points,
maybe some will be large in building. Ang klaro dito ay
hindi sya malayo sa mismong consumers.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
To highlight SamKnows methodology. It was also being
used in Canada. And recently, their analog to this
Commission issued an invitation to anyone who wanted to
participate if they wanted to put that particular device on
their internet connection understating of course in general.

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 13

It is a private issue that is going to happened. But the point


is, again, we joined the LIRNEasia that it is possible to
measure from that point.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
For information lang, we have a proposed budget to DBM.
We were proposing to purchased eight to cover the regions
but hindi sila pumayag sa walo, pumayag lang sila sa tatlo.
They said that kthe others ay sa 2017 na because the
budget is limited so yun lang pinayagan. So, we will have
an additional three next year, 2016, and that would be the
one we posted sa Visayas in Cebu and the other one we
posted in Cagayan at yung isa ay dito to measure the
areas where malaki ang trapik within the corridor. And
corridor na

(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
tinitingnan natin ay NCR and then CALABARZON area. Ito
yung high traffic areas, the Subic Clark and Bulacan areas
so dito iikot ang measurements. We have one being
purchased now for NCR in 2016 but towards the year pa
yan magagamit. So, yun ay for information lang.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
For fixed and wireless?

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 14

DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =


Yes, the same. Anybody else on the metrics? So that we
can go to other provisions.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
For Pwede bang marefresh yung LIRNEasia to share yung
measurement methodology na pinopropose nila?

Kasi

there has been a lot of discussions to this pero hindi


nasosocialize.
MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =

We have submitted position papers to NTC. Maybe we can


share them to you.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
Tsaka yung technical details nya kasi there is a couple of
methodologies that we can look at. One is the used of the
APE, the

(cont.Mr.Estrada)
katulad ng ginagamit nyo sa SamKnows. I think yung
binibili nila ngayon is APEs automated test equipment yun,
you can get anywhere the test depending on what program
sets back the report. Maaari din kasing client-

based

sya

whether there is application software you have in the


phone or on device itself and it picks up the usage interest.
Although yun ay merong minor challenge existing privacy
because it picks up practically more cost everything send

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 15

back to its order. And there is also others when you can act
to the employee people to the actual test dun sa
methodology so para lang maintindihan natin. We might
file some agreements dito.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
We will just have all the submissions emailed to you. Lahat
ng submission that we get ay e-e-mail nalang nalang
naming sayo. So, anything else please? Okay, kung wala na
sa area na yon, we will move to other provisions in the
draft rules. Definition, we have defined Broadband at least
256kbps. It was agreed upon last time. It is ITUs definition
of what broadband is. And then we defined FTTH, etc., so
yung ginamit lang dito sa rules and defined latency etc.
Then, we move to Rules on offer. If you try to look at this
one, it reflects some of our discussions yung sasabihin
kung where the area A is. Service providers shall be
required to specify the average data, rate, downstream
and upstream per area. The area can be

(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
administrative regions (e.g NCR, Region I, and so on) or
provinces. Bahala na ang ISP. This was also discussed last
time yung mga provisions na yan, etc. Some you nakita na
ito kahapon so perhaps, we will give you time to take a
look at this one and then i-susubmit ninyo. Then, we will
prepare the revised one, submit it in the Commission and
the Commission will call for a public hearing. So, ito po ang

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 16

gagawin natin dito. Yung isa dito is on the rules on refund


and rebate. The original proposal is if you do not comply to
the minimal wala na standard na sila. So, wala na yon.
Yung rules on refund and rebate is kung yung service is not
available. If it is not available twenty-four hours so that
would be refund. This is also consistent on the General
Order No.1 on the General Public Service Commission in
late 1950s. So, ito yun, nilift lang yun dito. Rules on Data
Capping, I think merong issue dito.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
On the rebates side po. I think, we should also qualify that
whenever we have outages in certain areas that we know
of whether it is planned or unplanned, but we know easier
that it affects the data majority, we can affect the rebates
from the time there is no service during the fiber cads.
However,

if the consumer experience is no internet but

we do not know that until they report. Therefore, the


rebates should reckon as per our existing rebates

(cont.Mr.Fernandez)
from the time they record that they have no service.
Because we do not know if some networks po namin has
no alarms. Yung pala sa drop wire sya naputol. That is why
the reckoning point po of those rebates are from the time
that they report from our hotline.

Anyway, the reports

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 17

from our hotline naman are fully recorded and are available
twentyfour seven and they reckon that from the time of
the first report.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Except if meron talagang program repair, etc.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
You still maintain a lot of the usage. For example, how
much is particular consumer usage for a particular period
of time? Correct?
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Not necessary.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
No, I was just thinking na if there is an evidence I needed
na. for example, this person has easiest patty path and
then at this particular point grasps to zero. And then later,
there is a subsequent complaint na starting from this point
it is consistent with this statement na he did not appreciate
any internet from that point. Then that point where the
actual cut happened, there is an evident that support that
then that should be the reckoning part.

MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =


We actually checked that also that is a part of our some
evaluation also.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 18

So, not exactly from the point of report. Because that will
then force everyone start calling the hotline immediately. It
is more for you.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
We actually flexible to that also because that is definitely
something to consider. Because if the report is two days
after and we see that there is no usage, then that can
violate

the

actual

claim

of

the

customer.

Because

sometimes there are reports that I am not getting service


for two weeks already, yun pala five days ago lang.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
I think as long as provided by evidence and then with the
absence of evidence, you can just say that it presumes that
is in the timely report. But if there is evidence otherwise in
the country, especially with the TelCo, then that should be
what governs. If he hard code it na and say na it is in the
time of the report, then that prejudices someone who for
some reason or another has no way to connect or contact
you.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
Yes, Sir, that would be the general rule that is reckon from
the time of reporting especially for example this is in the
time of landline telephone, from the time or reporting
talaga. But for data services,
(cont.Mr.Fernandez)

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 19

if there is data available that will violate the claim of the


customers even in the time of report, then was not able to
report we also give way to that validation of data and move
back to the time that there was no service action.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Yes, Eric?
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
Suggestion lang, Sir. I think we qualify further when it
comes to the rebates. Siguro ilagay natin dito, upon the
clarification that the cause of interruption is with the
providers. Kasi as mentioned by Mon earlier, there are
problems which can be caused by internet wiring.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
What we adviced to the cable companies are that when it
was reported as a problem and yes sometimes it is
sometimes because of the internal wiring is there is a
response time by the TelCo for instance you lived for
twenty four hours maybe send someone to determine what
the problem is. And if you fixed it at that time there is no
rebate.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
I agree. We suggested that we qualify between the
locations, that it is not maybe upon verification that it is
the providers fault. I understand what you are saying.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 20

Exclusively because sometimes the report is no service


then we go. Validated naman there is no traffic but when
we get there the problem pala was a defective is customer
provider modem. So, definitely, there are no usages but of
the course the service will also deliver that.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
Yes, so I guess that is just the response time from the
service provider.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
But when you are actually report naman po you were given
a time also because they set an appointment with you
.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Perhaps,

we

can

catch

it

in

language

that

it

is

coherentatory to the subscribers. So, if the only time that


the rebate on app will be a lot instead of saying that it has
to be the ISPs fault the only time that we deal on that is
determined that the caused for the interruption is due to
an action attribute to go to the subscriber. Let us say the
big one hits tomorrow and that cuts all access for a week.
Who will foots the bill for that internet?

MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =


What we are saying is that aside from the big one, let us
say some other factors that cannot be attributable to the
providers

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 21

MR. FRANCIS ACERO=


No, but for example, the ratification should be for example
there is a typhoon on it when it gets cut and it gets started,
I think subscribers will not pay for that period. Okay, that is
the policy within you, guys, that is why I stick on it for my
fixed line.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
Even for the data.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
No, that is why I am saying it into my fixed line.

But it

would be better if we hard coded this to everyone.


ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
I

think

you

have

found

those

on

the

subscription

application part.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Yes, I know but again, it should be a general policy for all
ISP.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
Just one item lang, Sir Egay. Sometimes the difficulties are
when the customers call us and we respond. They cannot
accommodate us until the weekend. So, from the time, we
might be faulted for not resolving that persons service
right away. But if we are not giving an access to their
premises and we cannot check out the service because by
reasons that they have a work during office hours. We are
forced to serve them only at a time of their convenience.

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 22

MR. FRANCIS ACERO=


Perhaps, that is matter of evidence and on a case to case
basis. From personal experience, there are times that the
service is not ok. For example, I missed a call because I
have a meeting outside but in reality, there are people in
my place that are petitioned to come. What was listed
there in the service report was unavailable for service.
What was happened is that I missed a call and when I try
to call back wala na. The technician is not picking up. So, in
this case, we can make it on a case to case basis.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
Yes, Sir, that is why I am putting it out because with on we
might be have some standards on restoration. Actually,
getting attached on the customer is just a minor issue.
Most major issue is that they cannot be at their
residence during the service so they can only see on
Saturday and Sunday. So, even if we send a team to fix the
line there, they cannot have action. We go back na lang on
a appointed date probably five days away.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Again, these can all be fix on language. If we set a time
frame to this, now it must be fixed. Syempre that takes an
account that if subscribers are responsible for line fixing in
a particular period that should not be handled this here.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 23

Any other comments? Yes, Eric?

ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =


I think we did not discuss the first of D. Can we go back
to that?
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Yes.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
I think we will be maintaining the latency, jitter and packet
loss should not be a part of parameters to be measured.
These were explained in several occasions. Now, on item
D which is the publication of results, for the record, we
are supporting the no.2, the averaged for each of the ISPs
as the option 1 of publication. The PCTO is supporting this.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Anything else?
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
I just put it on record, the item B, C and D on item C. We
are not in favor of that. The latency, jitter and packet loss.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Okay, can we move to the next one which is the Volume
Capping?
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Before I make a comment, Dir. Egay, I just want to ask how
do

you

arrive

at

the

computation

on

1.1?

Where

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 24

supposedly 1mbps downstream connection shall not be


less than 80% of 10.8 GB per day? Because I was making a
route on it and I made some computation so if my last
option is that 1mbps times sixty would be

(cont.Atty.Ibay)
for 1 minute is 60mbps. And then for 60mbps for minute
then sixty again is 3.6 GB per hour and times twenty four
that would be 86.4 GB per day. So, I was just asking now
where 10.8GB per day arrived. 80% of 10.8 GB is
theoretically will be your maximum for the day so I just
wanted to ask how 10.8 were arrived.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
This particular draft proposal here was lifted from the
proposal made by democracy.net. last time. We just lifted
this. Because in our proposal dito because meron ng
advisory and Department of Justice on the use of limited
services they may be no need for the rules on the data
capping and also rules on fair use. But during one of the
discussions, may suggestion na isama that is the reason
why ito ay narito.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Going to my comment, putting aside earlier was. Now, we
feel that this rules on data volume capping was not really
absorbed international best used practice.

For one, the

limiting that you have posted here is impractical in the


sense that we cannot even comprehend the import of such
a condition or qualification of the proposal of six to impart

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 25

to service providers. So, if my computations are correct,


the monthly using 1mbps average the monthly limit would
be 80% 2 TB of data per subscriber. Imagine the cost and
imagine the extent of bandwidth that we would have

(cont.Atty.Ibay)
to be provided by the service provider. In fact, we all know
that all services and products are fine type. Meaning, we
know that some extent even the resources come up to
some provisions in this draft MC is really and totally we
cannot comprehend how practical the cost that will be
entail not only in the providers but also for the consumer
themselves if they will really subscribed such requirement.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
This provision is tied with dating provision on the service
reliability kasi 80% ang nakalagay doon. So, doon naka-tie
up ito. But of course, we have already removed that
proposal so wala na syang standard so perhaps, wala na
din.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
I have a comment on that kasi I am just trying to drop off
with the number what you have tackled it. Our combined
daily truth does not go to terabyte. So, you know exactly
how unusually this di ba? So, I am talking with sense.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 26

Obviously, we were also looking at this. Our original


proposal was more half of this, five a day but then that is a
hard. We are talking to a hard cap on data volume. We are
not talking to a soft cap. There are two ways when we go
about capping, either hard or soft.

(cont.Mr.Acero)
Hard, you reached a certain bandwidth just a certain
volume of usage and then you drop off. From experience,
that is practically nothing when you switch back to edge.
Nothing will work. Or you can do a soft cap which are not
opposing. Soft cap is having a volume, you reached a
volume and after that volume you charge accordingly. But
the speed will not drop. If our original proposal for that
data capping applies to plans, for example, kasi on same
point on the future because the market is open. The
market is being offer an unlimited service at some point on
the future for a premium rate.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
So, this is basically for unlimited plan?
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Well, hard copies. The other thing is when we put it on
number is we wanted if there is a cap on a fair use policy.
We wanted that fair use policy to reflect the actual use of
that service. For example, at the PLDT home is offering
that wifi cam service, actually, this is a non reasonable
proposal, this is only for mobile. For example, someone is

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 27

going to subscribe to that home service is aware na if that


cam is going to stream an HD you must see volume here.
This would not come alone.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
This is straight forward simple if you are going to use
stream HD then you get a right plan.

MR. FRANCIS ACERO=


What we wanted to emphasize here is that if there is a
consumer wanted to go into this, the consumer knows
exactly what plan they should get for what service that
they expect. Because we do not believe that data volume
should apply to fixed line because there is enough
bandwidth to go around for fixed line then data volume
should apply to mobile. And we agreed that it should have
it. Someone who says, for example, again, we have talked
about this before, Derek is one the Senate. For example,
you are offering NBA TV, if they offer the data volume that
they offer on their fair use should reflect someone who is
going to watch a lot of that NBA TV service and how that
person can actually watch

before pumps up to his limit.

Because assuming na our technology is better and we start


streaming in HD for that service. That is just one service.
Glove has hope, I am sure you guys will up with your own
streaming service. When those things come on live your
data usage mobile at least is going to sky rocket. And the
idea is that, the consumer on that point knows what to get
in times of his data plan.

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 28

ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =


We may agree with what you are saying. The question is
would you want this to be included in the policy? Our take
on this, what you have mentioned is that sa marketing
design. It is how you package it and how technology
available and repackage it to what is included in the policy.
Or will want just to say the NTC or DTI to monitor whether
your advertising is properly implemented.

MR. FRANCIS ACERO=


To answer it. For us, we believe, although part of it is
Smart, we believe that part of it should set by Smart. We
believe that there should be a ground rules in setting a
data volume limits. In part of those ground rules should be
that whatever the data volume limits are, they should be
grounded on the expectations that the subscribers may
have upon getting that service.

That is the philosophy

behind it. We are not saying that this should be the


volume. We are amenable on something that is certain on
this and in fact, our original proposal nga is less than this.
We are only for mobile. Fixed line we do not.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
Okay, we get your point and we respect what you are
saying. I think to hard code certain rules on data volume
would be a violation already of data volume of value-added
service. And it would be some sort of regulations already.
Precisely, why service providers come out with some plans
with certain data volume limits or caps, it is actually for the

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 29

consumers. There are a lot of options and choices plans


there for every users who actually screened HD, who do a
lot of content that entail high volume usage then probably
this consumer should subscribe to this high volume data
caps. And then for other users they would just like for
browsing etc. then there would be more inclined to go for
the low end, low volume caps. That is precisely where the
marketing

(cont.Atty.Ibay)
programs give in and where consumer preferences and
consumer choices. To hard code those safe certain volume
caps in a memorandum circular would probably go against
the rule already being a value-added service.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Any other discussions on this one?
MR. MON ESTRADA =
May i-ka-clarify lang kami. I am not exactly sure where you
are getting the concept and idea that if it is for broadband,
it is practically limitless. If you look at the architecture of a
fixed broadband employment, you have all new on the
device itself. Then you have the optical fiber, the audio,
etc. and the BNG. So, limit mo is the capacity of the BNG
and the back and component. And that is the reason why
you would like to able to understand exactly what type of
consumer behavior is in your particular area. So, if it

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 30

happens that in your neighborhood somebody starts an


internet cafe using a subscription from you, that is
intended for residential, we chain this over the dynamics
and the capacity and requirements will way back towards
the back end. That is why there is a reason why it is
misleading kasi there is no limit kasi meron tayong law of
physics. We then able to find the solutions to to violate
beyond that although we do not want a circular to temper

(cont.Mr.Estrada)
around the marketing strategies that ties this house.
Maybe some ground rules has to be set. Baka we are
looking more like that specifying exactly what it is kasi
magcocompute kami and I do not want to ano. Otherwise
pareparehas kami ng plan sabihin samin krusyo naman
kayo.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
The idea is not to have cap where it is a hard cap. We also
believe on paying what you used for. So, we are not
suggesting here that these people are would drink out of a
button as well. For now, we can suggest that either put in
marketing rules bring it back up to offer na their offer is
adequately expressed the expected use requirement. And
on data volume capping, it is just that to reiterate the
position of DOJ that should be a hard capping and a soft
cap should be in place. Perhaps, that would be acceptable.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 31

Sir,

we

have

also

been

responsive

naman

on

the

requirements of the market because if you notice before


that the one internet is about two thousand pesos a month
or one thousand eight hundred. And now we also noticed
that some of the people cannot afford that. So, that we
make a plan as low as 990 or 999 and there is a time na
499. So, now, for 999, the subscribers will get about
5mbps. Sabi naman ng subscriber na yan is why I will
subscribe to Plan 2,000 or 1,900 if I do not use that much
data naman so I will stick on

(cont.Mr.Fernandez)
Plan 999 which is 5mbps. If unsual usage comes into play
lang, you are not still limited to 5mbps because you have
booster plans wherein you can but 4 GB. So, after you plan
999 and your subscription stops and you are still in need,
you can purchase such sachets already because we have
provided for sachets kasi unfair naman sa customer na I
can pay and I just need this temporarily then pa-kunti kunti
lang.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
That is for you fiber plan but even in your fiber plan I
noticed that there is a cap in your home.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
No, sir, even for your DSL.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 32

Yes, I noticed that even there, there is still a cap on how


much extra capacity will you buy on their fiber website. At
least this particular is ito yung pinakamababang plan fiber
and then you can buy a maximum up to 30 GB extra.
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
Actually, Sir, you can buy 10 GB for 199.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Yes and there is a limit?
MR. ANTHONY FERNANDEZ =
No, after 10 years you can still buy.

MR. FRANCIS ACERO=


There is a soft training. But again, I remember seeing it on
the website that there is no max. If the consumers are
allowed to purchase 10 MB box then that is fine.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Yes, Eric?
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
Suggestion lang, Dir.Egay. As Atty. Ibay mentioned earlier,
would it be much better if we do in general statement the
Rules on Offer Information item B that the service provider
shall be allowed or not allowed to offer soft capping or hard
capping? And it should be mandated to comply to
whatever plans they offer.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 33

So, any comments on F? If no more then we will go to


G. So, on guidelines on fair use. Any discussions here?
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
That fair use should be inform to the customers or to the
subscribers at the start and any changes should be made
available. It should not be sufficient enough to say na if
there is a fair use guidelines let us refer to it on the web it
has to be provided in black and white at the point
subscription. Then, there should be the amount of data
usage should be informed to the subscribers. It is not hard
to do. I mean, I have it to my current provider and when I
travel abroad on roaming, sinasabi din how much data
usage. The information is set by charge free SMS.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
Can we share something to that effect because that is
required by the NTC previously? What we have is for the
fixed broadband boost. So, the fixed broadband used where
you can see usage on, etc. etc. We got into trouble with
one particular customer with who open up this application
and said you are in thinking of my privacy even if we do
not fight for it on everything. He said that in the mere fact
that you are actually measuring my usage that is privacy.
We are trying to manage this.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
I think in that case you just to provide an optal or have that
tool installed. But for plans I think, just because you picked
a plan has a cap and I am sure in market there is a plan
that has no cap. Just using a plan that has a cap that is

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 34

already is a waiver of your line to have the Telco measure


your usage.
MS. TONETTE GRABLO=
I have a question, Dir. Egay. With respect to fair use
guidelines, is the concept of overbooking also been
discussed by the Commission? Because it is just an airline,
right?
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Yes.

MS. TONETTE GRABLO=


So, in sense, we have Philippine Network Quality is like 1
TB and there is a million users and do not have idea on
numbers. But it is not the subscribers fault if you overbook
and oversell and then you have to impose the trampling on
the fair use. So, I am not sure if it is going to be one of the
governing principles or just a whereas clauses. I think the
NTC also has to tackle the cases the overbooking on limits
in such cases where you have many subscribers but you
have upgrade and the capacity is limited but you trample. I
think, on some jurisdiction, this is handled and there is a
standard as to how much you can overbook kasi even in

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 35

airlines is a limit bit of overbook this much but this is also


be limit. Maybe we can suggest something.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Ito yung you accept more subscribers than the network can
handle. When you design kasi, a network is depending
upon the traffic analysis niya. So, which is internal to the
company is hindi po natin alam yung kanilang traffic study
on their own network. So, when they conduct traffic study
kasi it is the basis of their expanding kasi kung masyado ng
tumataas yan, nageexpand yan just to complete more and
more subscribers. I do not know how we can craft rules
doon sa sinusuggest kung paano gagawin yan dito.

MS. TONETTE GRABLO=


Yes, I do not know also but maybe just a general statement
na you are not supposed to overlook. Yes, Sir?
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
I think this is why near existing on option 2 on publication
na not to but in direct record for the ISP either get more
back fall so there are not oversubscribed anymore. And for
public to identify which one is to oversubscribe on their
networks and let the public decides then they will go to
heavier less subscribers that opens the market.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
On the other hand, that problem is actually has a lot of
major

factors

that

confluence

the

supposedly

the

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 36

complaints of the subscribers. With the first impression


that there has something to be a total overbooking.

For

example, for wireless, you have again the general location


where in some point of time when you plan to have a
network in that area. Suddenly, because of certain
developments, demographic developments that has been
overcrowding in that area for example in some localities
the traffic of some pedestrians and vehicles suddenly
increases and of course there is a weather and actual rain
that is suddenly when we plan that there were less
buildings a year ago and there is a construction boom
happened which affects the signal propagation area.
Second is availability of the mobile again of resources like
frequency which we have always applied for and which we
always act NTC to

(cont.Atty.Ibay)
provide us. But of course, there is only fine line amount of
frequency that can be available. Third, affecting again, we
would like to probably roll out bore cell sites in an area that
because of local governments situation, because of the
regulatory requirements in an area which is actually
prevent us from building or which considerably slows down
the process building an area and so on, and so forth. So,
actually there are so many reasons that can affect the
operation of the mobile provider on a certain local or area

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 37

which simplistically come people might like use a public


overbooking.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
The other thing that we want to show up to you is if it is
clear naman, it is across the board or it is the locality, it
allows for political pressure. For example, for the LGUs, the
particular LGU is being tough in allowing more cell sites in
its area then that allows people to come up and say, talk
to their LGUs and say look we need more cell sites. We
want to help you cut down these rare types, this amount, it
is not satisfactory state of affairs. And I think, Dir. Egay and
Comm. Cordoba, we talked previous meetings on how to
cut down on that aspects. Part of this also is digital literacy.
We want to inform people that these things are not simple.
If we believe nga na if people do understand this as much
as they understand for example back in old days before
Cable TV, they had

(cont.Mr.Acero)
to touch their antenna to have signal because they knew
that your body will act as an antenna. But to understand
this simple contexts, we can get somewhere.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Actually, we have tried that on 1999 yung when problem of
drop calls etc. ay naging rampant nun because biglaang
tumaas yung demand on cellphone services that time. So,
we issued rules that we can direct them, from accepting

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 38

rules subscribers pero hindi po naming pinatupad yun


because it may affect the economy. Yun po ang naging
issue nun when we were discussing this baka naman
magkaroon ng negative effect on the economy because
you stop them from getting more and more subscribers.
And that is why the reason why we did not implement that
one kasi baka magkaroon ng negative effect economy kasi
buying and selling yun. Yes? Go ahead.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
Anyway, Dir. Egay, the bottom line is my choices naman if
for the tramped as you have mentioned. It is that quote
and quote overbook. The subscribers are always have a
choice you can transfer. One other thing that we have to
understand

is

if

we,

for

example,

we

declare

for

inauguration carrier overbook, so what would be the


remedy? As what you have said that it cannot implement
because it can affect the economy. And it would affect also
the probability of the carrier. Supposed the solution is sige
wag

(cont.Mr.Delos Reyes)
ka ng tumanggap ng subscribers. Ang acquisition ng
subscriber ay dynamic yan. If I turn down five because of
that, suppose kinabukasan nagdisconnect ka na. So what
happens? It goes about dimensioning ng network. It cannot
be resolve or cure doon sa end, andoon yun sa starting
point. We have to understand also that the last portion that

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 39

would want that happen is the carrier kasi ang gusto


naman natin is marami at masatify yung subscribers
namin. Because ilan ba yung nagcocomplaint? May lugar
nga sa probinsya even outside metro manila, aside from
Cable TV meron ka pang carrier, may reseller ka pa. So, it
dictates that we have to do some good planning,
dimensioning of the network.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
So, basically, what you are saying is that mayroong
average choices pagdating sa consumers?

On the

overbooking subscription, when you put in on the design


you are normally profile your usage for the previously last
year. Today, because of data capping is picking up,
normally dito is shorter basis maybe eight months or every
six months depende sa nakikita mo na pick up. And you
adjust the network accordingly. What becomes advance
when you suddenly need more in order to cut the gut. But
previously, you already got have subscriptions for that.
Kung sa fixed hindi gaano issue kasi mabilis, tatype-type ka
lang or update ka lang while sa mobile it is not story all
together but we need to stick the cell and the rest. So,

(cont.Mr.Estrada)
normally, it is a combination of both the engineering
people, educating the mind people that hey our time is get
to sell at least days on this profile. By the way, if you want
to launch stupid promo this weekend, please let us know

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 40

one week ahead. That is the coordination, otherwise, hindi


pwede yung project secret, secret ka pala ng plano o
program tapos ang gumagana lang ay ito, hindi pwede na
yun. I think that is something that has to be done.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
The reason why we want please that hard coded is to
prevent

that

info

having

from

marketing

and

then

engineering unaware. At least some rules will force


engineering and marketing to be in the same page before
that happens. It was happened in the real world. Push that
it may not have a penalty.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
We have another problem with regards to that. They
suggest of dimensioning because you always forget it on
partner. You have more resellers than carriers. What is the
basis problem is actually the availability of bandwidth.
There are basis that I cannot mention. So, it is limited that
is the reason why we are not supporting option 2 because
of that. It can be dead sentence for the reseller who does
not have the capacity or does not have available facilities
in a particular area. So, idedeclare mo ganito nalang yan,
ganito nalang

(cont.Mr.DelosReyes)
nya, kaso gusto ko nga,

pano yan? That would be the

problem of the providers and ng supplier ng bandwidth. So,


that is the issue, it is not necessary overbook yan because

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 41

hindi na madagdagan walang available na facilities so what


happen now? So, are we going to declare that this
particular carrier or provider is overbook? Yung ibang
tatalon wala namang facility, VSAT nga ang ginagamit nila
then ako meron akong two pages sa Bohol at VSAT din ang
ginagamit. Tapos pagpinublish nyo madedeclare akong
inefficient. Magkakaroon ng perception na ang hina ng
serbisyo nyo kasi yung ang available. The public is will not
say ay ganito yan pero hindi titingnan nila na wala kang
capacity, second class yan dito ka pumunta sa iba. Siguro,
idelete if all things are equal.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Well, napropose na ito no? if it is for the developed areas,
however, the argument false rot.

For example, inside

Metro Manila, Metro Cebu or Metro Davao, that entire


unfalse rot. So, that entire false rot. So, if we can publish
initially for those areas and with the developing areas that
they have to reach certain saturations point or certain level
of development. Then, we can publish na. But beyond the
certain level, for example VSAT yung avail then do not
publish.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
Yes, Grace?

MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 42

In fact, in some countries, the measurement and setting of


standards would depend on how large the ISP is, that is
one approach. I think in Singapore, large ISP would be
provider than as 10% of the total subscriber based of the
whole country. So, that is one. But another suggestion is
that, just go to LIRNEasias last recommendation which is
to adopt function 2 for each of the ISPs. This is how all our
measurements that we know are done. One reason for this
is that you cannot possibly pin point to totally different
problem if you all the evidence to show what the problem
really is. So, you cannot possibly accuse an ISP that it is
overbooking. It is after measuring or if after measuring or
doing a technology audit, the infrastructure audit, you find
that this particular only has the capacity because it is
remote or there is probably resellers that are there. The
last mile providers are just small ISPs then I do not see why
it with distort public perception.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
So, ang gusto natin is yung sa BIR, yung chain campaign
because that is what you are saying. For example is the
Singapore, we cannot even recompute Singapore kasi sides
of Metro Manila. Siguro let us develop from what we have
instead

of

comparing

ourselves

everytime

doon

sa

ginagawa ng ibang bansa. Sabi nga, ang problema natin is


infrastructure cap. You are even talk about

(cont.Mr.DelosReyes)

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 43

speed. Sinasabi lang is magkaroon lang kami. It is very


difficult for us to compare, that is unfair for the providers to
compare to the other countries. Siguro dadating yun 5
years

from

now

after

the

competition.

think

maaaccelerate naman ang development kasi we started


from broad dial up, nag-improve naman yan. Even the
CMPS mag-LVP na nga sila and they are expanding. Nung
una

is

nagrereklamo

sila

because

of

the

concept

infrastructure but they are expanding also their LTE


network. That means that the competition is driving the
quality of service, it will. To unfairly publish those
informations but later on will be use by a particular
provider that is what we are objecting to. Maganda yung
suggestion nyo kung hindi gagamitin but we cannot control
that. Considering na, like for example doon sa CMPS, we
have pivo yun, ito hindi dahil marami syang variables. So,
magkamali ka lang ng isang measurements na na-measure
on a particular provision, okay marami namang sampling
yan. But it is just the same, those information can be
prejudicial to a particular provider. Kaya nga I think
sinasabi mo naman noon na kailangan lang natin is yung
basis kapag sinabi nilang pangit ang internet sa Pilipinas
dapat may masasagot tayo kung bakit. So, an index or
average can be I think for a time that can be sufficient.
Anyway, ang sinusuggest naman ng NTC doon ay all those
probably

cooling

the

average

down

will

be

inform

accordingly and should be compelled into the service


which is the

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 44

(cont.Mr.DelosReyes)
bottomline. Ano ba tayo? Pagalingan ng metrics ng na
namemeasure natin? O gusto natin yung bottomline natin
will be the customers experience.
MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =
Just to clarify. LIRNEasia has always been of the opinion
that we do not compare apples to oranges. The reason why
we mentioned other countries particularly the developed
ones is because most of the times they are the one
measuring that we have established a measurement tool.
In fact, in the Senate Hearing that we also attended, it was
LIRNEsia that pointed out that we do not compare
ourselves to Korea, to Singapore because the conditions
are logically different. In fact, we were also the one who
said that maybe we can compare ourselves to Indonesia
because that is an archipelago, we are not committed
economies and they also have set of parameters that can
be found in the Philippines. And also, Sir, just to clarify, it
think we should also reiterate that one of the reasons why
we want t do the metrics is not just to identify or define
why Philippine internet is bad. We also want to push
forward with possible solutions and that can only happen if
you can identify the problem areas. Si Sir. Eric keeps on
mentioning that I mentioned that gusto kung maexplain sa
mga tao na bakit bad ang internet. That was my personal
interest why I want to happen. But of course, the higher

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 45

interest will be as you also pointed out to make services


better for the consumers.

MR. FRANCIS ACERO=


This is the repeat one. If it is in the developed area, for
example, Metro Manila or NCR, there is an ISP now that
would claim na we want to this but we cannot. That
particular market for Metro Manila Cebu or Davao or
Cagayan De Oro, we can already do that. It is just for the
pilot areas na VSAT lang ang internet then ok fine. But
where the area has been a lot already that there is already
established there, you should be able to identify. Market
should be able to identify who is performing better and
who is not performing better. The other option will be doing
that comparison it selves using ookla which will not be fair.
You want nga to make that fair comparison.
MR. MON ESTRADA =
That is why wanted to understand the measurement
method. If you look at what is happening, majority of the
fixed line broadband subscription today is in the area of
2mbps or 3mbps. So, if it is going to be tackled by you,
ookla, we will not get any agenda but if you look at what
akamay is doing. Because akamay sees everything within
those from the BPOs and CBNs that they have then

you

can see that in the Philippines will practically rocking out of


almost 30mbps kasi nakikita yun. Ang problema ay

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 46

nadadrag yun kahit may hundred mbps subscriptions na


nangyayari ngayon for the
commercial

ones

napupuldown

dahil

an

gaming

subscription

(cont.Mr.Estrada)
ngayon ay nasa 3mbps the moment that changes kaya
syempre nagiimprove ang index natin. If our intent really is
to have the index to improve then yung average index
natin must to show that changes also. Then I will intend to
do that then yung option na sinasabi ni Egay na-i-cacall out
na yung TelCo sa dragging the ISP or dragging the index as
down. Then maybe it is a variable alternative.
ATTY. ROY IBAY=
We just want to go back on publication. For private interest
groups, we would not stop them in publishing whatever
drive test or findings that they want to publish. Again for
the NTC, what is the publication, what you will provide? Will
the public will make this release or on website? Or how the
subscriber basically need?
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
Going back to your statement that just an index, if there
will be a publication of average index for the entire
industry and not for service provider, we get statistics for
the service.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 47

In

area

publication

wherein

you

cannot

come

into

consensus, we will let the Commission decide on this one.


So, we will inform them na ito yung sa internet,etc.

ATTY. ROY IBAY=


Comment lang po on items 2 and 3 on letter G. We
expected to give and very well means that the subscriber
can measure their usage. Although we are already doing
this for our subscribers and might completed your, what
you called the dashboard. The dashboard is where you
monitor like the dashboard in your car, you will see the
usage in terms of volume. With that, it will have any further
notification might not be necessary already kasi nakikita
din naman nila. It is part of their responsible usage also.
Second naman po is that facilitates also contingent on the
settings on the equipment of the customer. Because if their
filters are on or they have an anti-virus or spam softwares
that do not allowed pop ups or blocked pop-ups they will
not put that. As it is now, we are getting complaints
because primarily the customers do not know that they
have their filters or pop up blocks on and they refuse it
naman to take it down because they will see now the adds.
So, with that po, kaunting revision lang po.
MR. FRANCIS ACERO=
This is comes on today as mobile it is just an SMS. In our
view, just offering lang the dashboard in itself is already

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 48

complied no with this provision. So, you do not want to do


anything more. It is not that you show the service, I think
there should be something. There should be whatever
service provides here, the subscribers will have the option
to off down the service. So, if he gets that message, for

(cont.Mr.Acero)
example, he is given that software dashboard on your
computer, or there is a website that he can go through that
he can access http dashboard hosted on server of ISP
where customer can drop his data. I remember for Rogers
in Canada, when I hit the soft cap, may access sa web
page. There is a header on top that notifies me that I have
hit the limit and I recharge according after the limit. I
mean, that sort of thing does not hard and that it is
compliant.
ENGR. ERIC DELOS REYES =
So, with regards to that Letter G, I just want to request,
Dir. Egay, if we can consult as far as the fixed wire is
concern. We need to have an additional time to comment.
That is why I am asking for additional time.
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
This will be the last meeting so we will report to this the
Commission. We will wait for your inputs for the next two
weeks.

And

we

will

prepare

for

the

draft

for

the

consideration of the Commission for the decision and then


the Commission will be calling for a public hearing.

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 49

MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =


Sir, what is the deadline of the T.O.R ?

DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =


Ganito yung nangyari dyan, we are not aware na yun pa
lang project that was approved was from mobile. Wala pa
tayong rules on mobile but yun ang naapproved dawn g
DBM so that they proceeded to the purchase of that one.
We are negotiating na dun sa supplier, to supply in the
mean time, free of charge yung software ay itetest muna
for one year. Eksakto yan for next year meron ng mabibili
ang Commission. So, we have discussed that and the
supplier agreed on na it will make available, yung software
na downloadable and na magpapahiram ng hardware para
mameasure yung fixed.
MS. MARY GRACE SANTOS =
The same supplier, Sir?
DIR. EDGARDO CABARIOS =
The same supplier. So, thank you very much.

Page
TWG Meeting on Minimum Broadband Speed
J u n e 4 , 2 0 1 5 / 2 P M | 50

Transcribed to the best of my ability

ELIZABETH G. LAMADRID
Stenographic Reporter I