Public Hearing With Sen Bam Aquino 1 - 11.7.14

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Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/November 7, 2014
REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES
NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

Quezon City
-----------------------------------
PUBLIC HEARING ON THE MEMORANDUM ORDER NO. 0707-2011

RE: MINIMUM SPEED OF BROADBAND CONNECTIONS
---------------------------------------------------------TRANSCRIPT
OF THE STENOGRAPHIC NOTES TAKEN DURING THE PUBLIC

HEARING BEFORE ALL CONCERNED OFFICIALS AND
REPRESENTATIVE OF DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
ON THE MEMORANDUM ORDER NO. 07-07-2011
RE: MINIMUM SPEED OF BROADBAND CONNECTIONS
-----------------------------------------------------------
COMMISSIONER =
Ladies and gentlemen, there has been a clamor to
improve the Internet and Broadband service that is in
terms of a speed, price and also coverage. Deputy
Commissioner
Delilah
Delles
and
Deputy
Commissioner Carlo Jose Martinez is here with us. So,

yun pong presyo, yun pong bilis o yung speed
because pag nagda-download po tayo o naga-upload.
(cont. Commissioner)
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yun po ang binabantayan tsaka yun pong coverage,

we do not want it to be concentrated in certain areas
only. We want everyone to have access in it. So,
lumalabas po, 10 years ago hindi naman ganito. It
seems that when the law R.A 7925 was issued, ang
basic service po noon ay voice. Right now, it seems
that Internet, not even text, is becoming the basic
service. Well, of course, sabi ko listen to Senator Bam
Aquino. There are several positive developments din
naman hindi naman puro negative. Many students
are right now learning from the Internet by getting
jobs. Yun pong they translate or they do jobs from
the Internet and they are getting paid in dollars.
Online jobs po ang tawag doon. Also we are Number
one (1) in BPO for voice and we are Number two (2)
for BPO Non-Voice, we are second to India. And then
ito po nakakatuwang pakinggan, we are second to
Brazil in terms of Facebook users. The population of
Brazil is so much bigger than ours but in terms of
Facebook penetration at saka yun pong paggamit ng
Facebook, Number two (2) po tayo sa Brazil. Anyway,
despite all of these positive developments, alam
naman natin pare-pareho na marami pa pong dapat
gawin. They said that Broadband is the new oil. For
every increase in 10% in penetration results in 1.23%
increase in GDP. Everytime na nagdodoble ang speed
there is a .3% increase in GDP. Ngayon po ang reason
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why we are here today is: if we increase the speed

they increase the accessibility and
coverage of Broadband. Then, ang gusto po nating
mangyari ay tumaas ang increase o magkaroon po
ng increase sa atin pong GDP. Of course, leading us
today
is
Senator
Bam
Aquino
siya
po
ang
nagpasimula nitong ating pong ginagawa na ito. His

advocacy has always been the small to medium
enterprises, Even when his still in the private sector
and also the youth, because of his age, siya po ang
represenatative ng mga kabataan. Kaya ito pong
dalawang grupo na ito ang mga necessities po natin
entrepreneurs na maliliit, the small to medium
enterprise at saka po yung youth na pinakamalakas
gumamit ng Internet. Kaya po tamang tama siya po
ang ating naging advocate for this important job. Ok,
we have, right now, we have a Memorandum Order
on a Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections. This
is Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011. Nakalagay po
dito:
xxx The Broadband service providers shall specify
the minimum Broadband/Internet connection speed
and service reliability and the service rates in their
offers to consumers in their advertisements, flyers,
brochures and service level agreements and service
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level agreements. The minimum service reliability

shall be 80%.xxx
We also phrase computation there kung papaano po
makuha yun. So, that service reliability is measured
over a period of 1 month and calculated as follows:
xxx hours in a day times days in a month minus time
Internet connection speed is below minimum divided
Hours in a day times Days in a month.
The Service offers shall specify the service rates for
a minimum Broadband/Internet connection speed
and the service reliability. And we want it to be at
80%. So, the subscribers shall be properly informed
of the Broadband/Internet connection service being
offered to them. failure on the part of the Broadband
service provider to comply with this Order, the
Commission file appropriate administrative case
against said Broadband service provider. xxx
Now, if you look at it, if you will go through it,
lumalabas po na, Sir, this is more than of advertising
more than the substance or Broadband itself. Kasi
meron po kaming kaunting nahihirapan na part
because, right now, when R.A 7925 was issued ang
basic service lang po na pwedeng i-regulate is voice
lang po not even text. So, ngayon po, 10 years ago,
nag-iba na po. So, lumalabas ang Broadband at
Internet ay basic service because you can send data,
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actually, you can send text at meron din pong video

component. Most of the people who have smart
phones use it to call and send text through different
platforms like viper. So, lumalabas po na parang
basic service na po siya sa ngayon. However, the
clamor is for something higher. It is not only for truth
and advertising ngayon kasi nararamdaman natin.
Right now, there are 1000
million Filipino Population but the number of active
Sim Card is 104 million. Ganon po kalalim ang
penetration pagdating sa Cellphones. Ang meron
pong Internet connection na fixed line ay pumapatak
po na 8 million; yun po yung mga naka-DSL or Viper.
So, most of the people using Internet would be using
through wireless. Kaya po yung tao, what they buy is
just the smart phones para they can bring it
anywhere. So, ayun po ang malaking population
nung kailangan po nating tulungan. So, anyway, yun
po ang reason natin kung bakit kami nandito to
amend the Memorandum Circular No. 07-07-2011
and yun po ang hihingan namin ng inputs sa inyo.
Sir, just to inform you we will also give you a copy.
Nagpadala na po sa amin ng Position Paper from
several
groups.
Democracy.net.,
Philippine
Mobile
Ang
Adobe
nandito
User
Developers,
po
ay
Group
ito
pong
Philippines,
Philippine
Design
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Associations,
International
Gain
Developers
association. So, this is their position papers. And then

nagbigay na din po ang PLDT Group. And then
nandito din po ang PAPTELCO, nagbigay na din po
sila ng Position Paper. And included in their position
yun pong group ng PCTO is ito po yung mga landline
providers in the countryside, Broadband also. So, ito
po yung mga nagbigay ng mga DSL dun po sa mga
provinces po natin. Now, PCTO is Philippine Chamber
of Telecommunications Operator, they also give
Position Paper. So far, Sir, yun palang ang meron.
Sir, maybe you can give your message.
SEN. AQUINO =
Thank You, Mr. Cordoba and of course other officers
ng NTC.
Magandang Hapon sa inyong lahat mga
opisyales. Nandito po tayo para hindi naman masabi

ng NTC na parang laging ako
nalang ang nang-
iimbita sa Senado when they have hearings. I stated

in the last hearing, I also wanted to attend to your
own hearing because ang tingin po natin dito is yung
ginagawa po natin sa Senado at everything needs to
be implemented by executive as well. So, actually,
just to make sure that things are moving along; that
the things that we talk about in the Senate actually
P a g e |7

come to an actual policy, change or recommendation

that we can even see. I am very interested to hear
from the speakers what they came up with the
Memorandum Order. If they think that they can
resolve the issues on some of the complaints of the
general public. And later on, if there are other
recommendations from NTC on the Legislative side,
which is to amend certain laws. We have been also
working on some possible laws that can also open up
access to more areas. Then, of course, our office is
very prepared to work on that. But probably at this
point, one of the main points that was raised
previously is, do we even have a standard by which
we get our Internet and I
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
need the answer for that because that is not a basic
service. You can not really impose standards but in
the minimum, the DOJ also set the same thing which
that we can actually just look at the proven
advertising. That is something that can be regulated
to a certain extent or an area na ang NTC may
kapangyarihan na manghimasok.
Okay,
this
is
basically
the
subject
of
this
Memorandum Order. We also like to hear from the

Private Sector,that this are doable, or if it is
something good for the public as well and of course
from other partners, we also want to hear kung ano
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rin ang tingin nila sa mga topics na ito. Now, one

thing that was raised on our previous hearing was a
function or ability for consumers to actually get a
refund if they do not feel that they are getting the
right service. I do not know if we would be talking
about it today, but probably, pwede nyo ding
pagusapan iyon kung may paraan upang ma-address
yung mga consumers complaints at kung maaari
pwede din nilang makuha ang nararapat na bayad or
refund para sa kanilang mga naibayad na. So, I am
really here more on as an observer more than
anything else. Of course, we work hand in hand with
the executive and legislative. After this hearing, kung
meron pong mga batas na dapat ipasa or i-amend,
our office will here to support that. Thank you very
much for inviting me.
COMMISSIONER =
Maraming salamat po, Senator at masaya po kami
na nabisita nyo po kami dito sa office. Okay lang po
ba Sir if we ask our respective persons to introduce
themselves para po we will have an idea kung sino
po ang nandito sa atin ngayon. Maybe we can start
with Sir Mon.
MR. MON ESPIRITU =
P a g e |9

I am Mon Espiritu. I am here for the Public Affairs of

PLDT and Smart.
MR. CARLOS NARCENA =

Hi, I am Carlos Nacerna. I am from International Gain
Developers Association Manila Tracker.
MR. BONG MOLINA =

Good afternoon, Bong Molina representing ABS-CBN
Convergence.
ATTY ROY IBAY =

Atty. Roy Ibay from PLDT/Global .
MR. ERIC DELOS REYES =

I am Eric Delos Reyes representing PAPTELCO and
the PCTO.
ENGR JAMES SANTIAGO =

I am James Santiago, Consultant and Professional
Electronics and Communications Engineer.
MR. PATRICK CHEN =
P a g e | 10

Patrick Chen, DTV Pilipinas.
MR. ANTON ALCANTARA =

Anton Alcantara, ABS-CBN Convergence.
MR. ARMAND URSAL =

Good afternoon, Armand Ursal, Governor of Institute
Electronics Engineer Manila Channel.
MR. RICH MONIEGO =

Hi, I am Rich Moniego Private Citizen
MR. LARRY =
Hi, Im Mr. Larry from Office of Atty. Cojuanco
MR. ARCHIE ATIENZA =

Achin Atienza from Globe Telecom
MR. BOBBY AQUINO =

Bobby Aquino from Globe Telecom.
MS. CARRIE BUENAFE =
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Carrie Buenafe from Huawei Philippines.
COMMISIONER =
So, we can open the floor for any comments or
recommendations on our topic but ang reference po
natin
will be yung Memorandum Circular No. 07-07-2011
but basically it is Internet Speed and Broadband
Service.
MR. URSAL =
Good Afternoon again. I would like to take off to the
standard that you mentioned about the standard of
the Internet. Like in our organization, in the Institute
of
(cont. Mr. Ursal)
Employment Units, we are starting to draft different

standard. So, with the regards to the standards, Sir, I
think, there must be 3 implements.
There is no
baseline for what the bond with the consumer with

the enterprise price. Right now. So, when I feel that I
need the 2MB or 4MB, I get quotation from different
suppliers for that said 4MB. That is why I decide
based on that 4MB the track record that I draft in
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different
TelCo
providers
and
talking
to
the
consumers side. We can see bundles of Internet for a

certain speed up to 8MB, an exact amount for
unlimited surfing. I think in the scenario now, it is
favorable to the market because we have the option
or choice to get what package Internet bundle that
will suit their budget.
SEN. AQUINO =
What is your name again, Sir?
MR. URSAL =
Armand Ursal, Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So, Armand ang sinasabi mo is you do not have a
general standard as long as yung market rate is
fulfilled or the market prices are fulfilled. So, kung
baga as an Engineer, mahirap magsabi na lahat ng
Internet ganito kabilis. Ang sinasabi mo ay: Ganito
yan kabilis, depende sa napili nung customers or
mamamayan hindi ba?
MR. URSAL =
P a g e | 13

Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So, I think that is probably the reason kung bakit you
made the baseline here. What the TelCos and ISPs
are actually advertising. So, ang tanong po dyan,
depende dun sa nakuha mo sa market yung bill that
you got. Ano sa tingin nyo po yung standard of
acceptability nung napangako na bilis na ginawa po
nya sa merkado?
MR. URSAL =
Speaking for myself Sir, kasi postpaid po ang plan
ko. So I get what I expected. Like, kapag nag
speedtest ako sa
(cont. Mr. Ursal)

smartphone ko, I get 8MB of download, 2.6 of upload.
So, basically, nasa-satisfied ako sa binibigay ng
provider ko.
SEN. AQUINO =
So, would you agree na all the time na mag-check
kayo dapat ganon ang speed? Or you agree to the
80% reliability na nakalagay dito?
P a g e | 14

MR. URSAL =
I understand naman Sir na yung speed varies sa
location mo. Kung saan kang
network naka-area,
kung maganda yung signal captivity mo, it varies.

Parang given na yan sa aming mga consumers na we
are connected to a wireless Broadband and there are
factors, other than technical issues, that really affect
the bond plan.
SEN. AQUINO =
So, you mean, na kailangan natin na naka-suggest or
nakalagay sa advertisements?
MR. URSAL =
Sir, I do believe na kailangan talaga kasi para hindi
naman ma- short change yung iba. Kasi sa merkado
may ibang mga prepaid marketer. Syempre yung
postpaid naman, gusto namin we get what we paid
for. Yung prepaid naman, they get the exact sachet
of prepaid. Kami sa postpaid, hindi kami papayag
na we are paying this much tapos pag tinignan
P a g e | 15

namin pag nag-speed test kami, we are the last,

parang ganon.
SEN. AQUINO =
So, you are saying na iba yung standards ng
prepaid at saka postpaid?
MR. URSAL =
Not
really,
Sir.
Parang
rated
kung
ano
yung
binayaran mo na package or bundle sa Internet.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok, so, kung ano yung binayaran mo, yun yung
dapat makuha mo?
MR. URSAL =
Yes, Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok, that is the standard that you are suggesting right
now?
P a g e | 16

MR. URSAL =
Yes, Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Okay. But in your experience, naaabot naman yung
pangangailangan mo like what you say?
MR. URSAL =
Yes, Sir. So far.
SEN. AQUINO =
But the engineers are here. Mga ECE kayo. Would
you agree dun sa 80% service reliability? Do you
think it is too low or too high? Or is it realistic?
MR. URSAL =
Sir, I experienced like that kasi nga sa I.T merong
mga higher reliability. So, yung idealistic is 99% but
of course there are factors na talagang we have to
accept that 80% will be, sa akin personally.
COMMISSIONER =
P a g e | 17

Thank you very much. Just a follow-up question, ang

80% based dito sa ating Memorandum Circular 0707-2011 is sa tingin niyo acceptable?
MR. URSAL =
Yes.
COMMISSIONER =
Okay, maraming salamat po.
MR. DELOS REYES =

Good Afternoon, Your Honor. On the part of the
DTV/PAPTELCO, it is inclined to express for the
record, our reservation with regard to the regulation
of a VAS. As you
(cont. Mr. Delos Reyes)

said, Mr. Commissioner, Broadband is still parang
basic service. It is not really a basic service. So, if
we go back on our record during the discussion of the
VOIP, this was the same argument that we made that
the VAS/VOIP will be regulated and then you said no,
VAS should not be regulated. So, in the same
manner, perhaps, NTC should look into the same
argument. If you argue, that the VOIP is VAS ,
P a g e | 18

therefore, it should not be regulated. Then what is

the difference between that and the Broadband
Service that we are now saying that this is basically
regulating? Nevertheless, Your Honor having said
that we are going to participate on the discussion in
looking for a way to improve the service. We, as
carriers, our intension is to provide the best service
as possible. But then again to mention our earlier
opposition that we have submitted even before 0707-2011 was issued. We also submitted opposition to
that minimum. Setting on minimum will not improve
the quality of the service and we have
cited
reasons as to why, among others, is that according to

the statistics that 5-7% of the Internet users actually
have an 80% bond rate. But as I were saying, if that
is the case then it is going to be difficult since we
have to understand that Internet is a serious service
unless you are subscribing to a dedicated Internet
service. Actually the comparison is, just imagine a
water pipe running on a stream if you have a
possession, I mean
customers attract that pipe, so, everybody will say
send PMS. What if one or two of the houses installed
a pump? That sucks the pressure of water on the
pipe? So, certainly, the pressure will be affected in all
the houses. It is not different in the Broadband
P a g e | 19

because if there are abusive users and as given to us

by our technical members, members of our technical
group. What we are saying perhaps is we are looking
on the other direction, looking in other countries. We
are looking on the maximum volume. We are putting
an economic barrier. It is not different on the
electricity wherein there is a basic usage,. I am not
sure for this, let us say 10kWh is the basic. Then
beyond
that,
the
customers
pay
premium
for
additional kWh. Then perhaps, we can look on the

concept also. Why? Because if that in case, going
back to the pipe, yun pa ding sinasabi ko, to maintain
the pressure which is similar to maintaining a
minimum, we have to put a minimum of volume of
water. It makes more expensive because in the
customer, you need an additional expense. So, it will
cost more. But if it will be based on a certain volume,
some would say it is a usage policy. Then there will
be a more efficient use on the network rather than
network being abused. So, it is a suggestion, one of
the points that we raised on initial discussion on this
Memorandum Order.
SEN. AQUINO =
What company are you?
P a g e | 20

MR. DELOS REYES =

I am with the PAPTELCO, one of the TelCos on the
country side where we offer basic services and
Broadband services.
COMMISSIONER =
Wired or wireless po?
MR. DELOS REYES =

Both wired and wireless po. Wired is the basic natin
and then wireless, we are talking about the nonwired, wifi hotspot ,
Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO =
Kasi ang mga hearings po natin, the Globe and Smart
are already implementing a fair use policy. Hindi
naman tayo tumutol doon. And my understanding is
that the fair use policy can take care of those 5-7%
who are abusing. Because the system itself will turn
off their gripo, kung gagamitin po natin yung
metaphor ninyo.
Ang sistema na din po ang
magpapatay ng gripo sa kanila in a fair use policy.

So, that should protect the consumers to the extent
of the flow of information. In terms of charging your
P a g e | 21

customers, clear din po ba ang pag-charge ninyo sa

mga customer?
MR. DELOS REYES =

Yes, Sir. Meron din pong mga plans yun. Depende
kung ganong speed ang kailangan nila. Meron ding
dedicated, yung sinasabi nating guaranteed ang
speed niya. So it is the customers that dictates.
SEN. AQUINO =
But you cannot assure them the speed?
MR. DELOS REYES =

Yun pong mga dedicated.
SEN. AQUINO =
Yung mga normal plans lang na dedicated.
MR. DELOS REYES =

Yun po ang problema, Your Honor, because shared po
lahat yan. That is the concept. That is the essence
P a g e | 22

you get through the Internet. Shared po yan.

Ngayon, kung may abusive user po, hindi lang
naman po yan nangyayari sa wired, sa wireless din
po. Kapag merong nagpabagsak dyan, kapag may
nag-iwan na sa desktop, nagda-download ng Blu-ray,
24 hours po iyan. Hindi bale kung isa lang. And
halimbawa, 6 ang community, nakita nyo naman,
bumabagsak din ang sales ng blu-ray downloading.
SEN. AQUINO =
Sir,
am
trying
to
understand,
hindi
po
ito
investigation or inquisition. I am trying to understand

so that we can come to a better policy rate. But in
that case, macha-charge po tayo ng peer ano? Pero
yung higher peers na nagbabayad ng mataas, you
cannot assure them also the speed. Kasi nga kung
baga may mga panahon na babagsak talaga yung
speed. For the consumers, if we are charging them
higher for a better service, we should assure them of
a better service, di ba? That is why meron tayong
service reliability
na
nilagay na
siguro
naman
papasok na sa 20% yung mga panahon na bumagal

o naabuso, hindi naagapan ng fair use policy.
Because if we can assure any speed, edi mag-year
nalang tayo, di ba? But I am asking in your particular
case, sa inyong TelCo kung meron kang highest plan,
anong porsyento ng panahon na naaabot mo yung
P a g e | 23

highest plan na yon? Is it more than 50% of the

time? Or more than 80% of the time? Or hindi mo
talaga
ma-assure
naaabot
yung
yung
speed
highest
na
plan
nakalagay
ninyo
na
po
sa
adverstisement nyo?
MR. DELOS REYES =

Kung naa-achieve po, I do not have the exact figure
but for the highest plan, I do not have the exact
percentage, more than 50%? I cannot say so
because, otherwise, TelCos will be complaining.
Remember Your Honor, kung hindi namin ma-achieve
yung sinabi namin because of the very competitive
environment, they will disconnect with that. So, it is
really
our
intention
to
achieve
that
because
otherwise, they will just transfer to another provider.
SEN. AQUINO =
But in that same thing, sasabihin ninyo, hindi mo rin
sila pwedeng i-assure.
MR. DELOS REYES =

Wait, Your Honor, sabi niyo po, hindi po ma-assure
yung speed kasi nga maraming pwedeng mangyari.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 24

The question po is, I think the subject matter of this

hearing
is
yung
maiipapangako
natin
sa
mga
advertisements natin ay naibibigay nga ba natin sa

ating mga customers?
MR. DELOS REYES =

Yes ,Your Honor. Hindi naman po namin sinasabi na
80% of the time we will achieve that. Basta meron
kaming sinasabi na dun sa in between ng discussion
is yung up-to. So, we do not advertise na, okay,
80% or 90% of time. The customers will be aware
that the speed that they want to achieve. For
example, up to 1MB, yun yung pwede nyang maachieve sa subscription na yon. But if a carrier
cannot consistently achieve that, and it cannot
deliver that, then normally they (the consumers) will
just disconnect. Because they are not the only one
carrying
Broadband. If consistently we are not
delivering that kind of service at their expect time,

aalis sila. And they will transfer to somebody who
can really provide what they expect.
SEN. AQUINO =
But they are after the speed. Hinihintay ko kasi if this
Memorandum Order will pass. If it pass, in effect the
P a g e | 25

providers
should
state
up-to
speed
limit
or
whatever
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
speed you want to advertise. Naipapangako nya ang
speed na yun up to 80% of the time.
MR. DELOS REYES =

Not 100%.
SEN. AQUINO =
Well, 80% right now? Kahit 80% tingin ho ninyo?
MR. DELOS REYES =

But it varies. It is something that the carriers can
achieve right now not necessarily 100% po.
SEN. AQUINO =
Well, wala namang 100% I do not really think unless
other resource speaker will talk about 100%. But
right now, ang galing sa NTC ay 80%. So, in your
advertised speeds na up-to. What you were saying
is naaabot nyo rin naman yun because kung hindi
aalis din naman yung mga yun (subscribers).
P a g e | 26

COMMISSIONER =
Meron pa po bang gustong magtanong? Yes?
MR. NACERNA =
When TelCos and I talked and then they say kung
bakit ang bagal, ang lagi nilang sinasabi is yung mga
abusive users. Itong 5-7% na kumakain ng 80%. But
all of these cannot be used as an excuse. It also
happens in all other countries and yet they can
deliver best speeds. So, it is not an excuse. Bakit sila
mas malaki pa ang Torrent sa kanila mas mabilis
pa
ang
Internet?
geographically,
Bakit
have
tayo
barriers
hindi?
like
we
And
are
we,
an
archipelago. Pero magagawan din naman ng paraan

yan like Indonesia, for example. Meron din sa
Oceana, malapit sa New Zealand. So geographically,
it is not an excuse. And then, when you go to the
mega cities like Manila, that is one contiguous land
mask you know?
So, bakit hindi ma-deliver ang
speeds dito? So, there are realistic reasons beyond

that. May congestion dahil I think, Manila City has the
highest population in the whole world as a city; from
them talaga ang congestion. So, perhaps, the TelCos,
in partnership with the government can help into the
infrastructure. Kasi hindi pwedeng TelCo lang lahat,
kailangan there is also part of the government which
is like what happening to the National Broadband
P a g e | 27

Trans in first world rankings. And then with regards

to the regulation of the Internet statistically, that is a
(cont. Mr. Nacerna)
tricky rope situation kasi once you declare as a basic
speed, it will be under Congressional or Senatorial,
something like that . And if we do that baka
magkaroon ng barriers even yung players because
minsan mabagal ang legislation. So, yan ang parang
Pros and Cons. Kapag niregulate mo, they have to
follow directly, kung hindi, tanggal ang lisensya mo.
Pero yun nga, speed of legislation, kapag ginawang
basic service yan, makakapasok ang ibang players
dahil
babarahin
yan
specially
those
interested
groups. Mayroong may interest in maintaining the

status scope. Another problem is the Global Internet
Connection for local IX. Because what we have here
technically, is actually, a digital burning wall. Kunyari
ako, nasa ISPA ako, tapos kapitbahay ko nasa ISPD,
gusto naming magusap. Siguro, let us say 30 meters
yung pagitan ng bahay namin. Pero ang mangyayari
dyan dahil walang local IX, yung data packets ko
lalabas pa ng bansa, pupunta muna sa International
Exchange like Hongkong, Singapore, or wherever,
bago
bumalik
sa
Pilipinas,
tapos
pumunta
sa
kapitbahay ko, and then magra-rountrip pa yan para

mag-usap kami. Bakit ganon? Just like a burning wall.
So, maraming challenges na sasabihin syempre
P a g e | 28

kunware
paano
didiretso,
their
security
issues,
management issues ng bandwidth, et cetera But you

know, we have the best ISP and TelCos. I am sure
they can fight for that. This is similar remember to
the time na yung Globe at Smart hindi ka pwedeng
mag-text to each
(cont. Mr. Nacerna)
Other? Kung hanggang ngayon ganyan pa din ang
sitwasyon, anong nangyari sa atin? So, in like that
they changed. This has to be official. It is nonnegotiable it has to happen. Maraming pwedeng
paraan dyan, there is going to be a local IX where all
of them can pear kung reasonable naman yung
prices.
And then meron din namang bring-your-
baon situation. We have an equal eye on IX where it

is to everyone to connect. All you need is to bring
your own cable. Kanya-kanyang baon lang, packed
lunch. So, isa pa, we have essential government
services in the Internet. And that is primarily posted
dun sa E-Government program natin sa National
Computer Center. The service is yung tinatawag na
nation critical na hindi pwede mag-fail because we
have the COMELECs data.Perhaps, BIR, NSO or
Statistics Office, where you get your Birth Certificate,
et cetera. Those informations, you cannot allow it
actually to be hacked. So, additional security din yun
pag dumiretso. And I think the fastest way to get
P a g e | 29

there is the Philippine Open Exchange. And there is

another thing, pag sinabi mong speed there is a
thing called latency or pin time. Kasi pag
sinabing bandwidth, then yung amount data, yung
lapad ng bite back para umagos dun sa targets. Pero
yung speed naman, yun yung bilis ng agos which is
latency. Ngayon, kapag masama yung latency,
merong tinatawag na web page time-out. So, yung
sinend mong data hindi lalabas. Let us say it is a
dynamic web-page out. Ito yung forms,
you will be shopping e-commerce. Tapos kapag nag
time-out hindi mo alam kung na-send o hindi yung
personal
information
mo.
So,
ang
mangyayari
ngayon dyan, may tinatawag na packet lost. So, ito

yung tinatawag na 80% advertise rate. Kailangan
lagyan yan ng legislation or what is acceptable
packet lost. Kasi when you send data through
Internet, some of it get lost in transit. Para syang, I
think the more appropriate analogy here is not pipes,
but ant colonies. So, you have here ant colony and
then you have your food source. Yung ant colonies
magba-back and forth din sa food source. Tapos pag
naubos na yan maghahanap ng bagong connection.
Kapag binara mo yung path ng mga ants, gagawa na
sya ng bago. So, the Internet send hearings on their
routing, yun ang importansya ng latency. Isa pa,
P a g e | 30

kapag may lost pockets, magtatanong naman dahil

hindi na-send kasi uulitin. So, what is that in result?
They
have
the
bandwidth
being
wasted
dahil
napagod, nauubos yung bandwidth dahil dun. So,

yun lang po muna for now.
SEN. AQUINO =
What again your name Sir?
MR. NACERNA =
I am Carlos Nacerna, Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok, thank you for your suggestions. Actually, kung
baga sa statement mo parang narinig mo na yun sa
hearing sa Senado. We tackled all these issues
already. With regard to the Philippine Open
Exchange, we are actually working for that. Hoping
that very soon that we will have some good
development based on that very soon. With regard to
this Memorandum Circular, regarding the service
reliability in your experience, are these fair? Fair ba
itong Circular na ito? Na nakalagay na kailangan
ilathala yung name? Kailangan may 80% reliability?
P a g e | 31

Is that something you think is fair? A fair form that

we can give to the consumers?
MR. NACERNA =
I think this is really fair. Kasi let us say, yung
advertising period, tri-media. Let us say we are going
to give you 3G or 4G screens dun sa mobile pero pag
gamit ng user ano lang
ang makukuha nyan? May tinatawag na GPRS lang.
Kung baga, iba ang binebenta pero yun lang ang
makukuha ng users. Hindi naman makatarungan
yun. So, alam naman nating maraming challenges.
Meron tayong mga areas na mahirap lagyan ng cell
(cont.Mr.Nacerna)
Sites. And then may areas din na may certain
barriers dahil bago makapagtayo ng infra dun, you
need to coordinate with the LGUs like the Barangay,
the Mayor. So, there are certainties that are involved
there. Pero ang maganda sana across the board,
buong Pilipinas malaki ang single standard. Kasi ibaiba ang fee depende kung saan ka pupunta. That is
something we can look at.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 32

That is actually the subject of the open access that

we are working on already and the subject of our
next hearing on the Senate. This is with regards to
the
Open
Access,
right?
Na
magkakaroon
ng
magaganda o siguro mas standardized na pagpasok

ng ating ISPs. With regards to this, is it doable? Do
you think it is doable that today the ISPs and TelCos
will state their minimum rates?
MR. NACERNA =
Based in the reliability, I think that is very fair. Pero
we need to give the ISPs and TelCo a time to get a
necessary infra. Kasi maraming tricky sa opposition
nyan. Let say sa provinces, may mga NPA na
pinapasabog
yung
mga
cell
sites
nila,
their
revolutionary attacks. So, parang tricky opposition

(cont. Mr. Nacerna)
na yan. And then you are talking about wire dun sa
nangyayari yung mga medyo lower income rackets
na kailangan ng konting kita, ninanakaw yung mga
copper cables. So, maraming challenges po.
COMMISSIONER =
Yes Sir?
P a g e | 33

CONCERNED CITIZEN =
Magandang hapon po. Ako po ay nandito, hindi po
ako Techy pero isa lang pong ama na nag-invest na
mapag-aral, mapagtapos ang apat na anak at
gumastos po ng malaki sa lahat po. Alam nyo po ang
aking mga anak maayos na po. Yung isa po La Salle,
si Jaja. Yung isa po from DepEd, si Joyce, na-involve
sa K12 pumunta na sa Ayala. Tapos yung sa ko may
negosyo, nasa Public Development Officer. Yung isa
po nasa Baguio, hindi po yung hindi mahusay ang
buhay. Sinasabi ko po ito based on experience. Yung
tatlo ko pong mga anak na maayos ang buhay,
professional po sila. They can afford postpaid
subscription ng Broadband. Yung isa ko pong anak
na nag-i-struggle ay prepaid po ang ginagamit.
Kanina po nung hinatid ko yung anak kong nagtuturo
sa La Salle, si Jaja, sinabi nya yung schedule ko,
pupunta ako mamaya sa Public Hearing ni Senator
(cont. Concerned Citizen)
Bam yung sa Internet. Sayang Dad, hindi ako
makaka-attend. Bakit? Di ba nahihirapan ka from
1-2, 5? 10MBPS na tayo sa bahay, pero mahirap pa
din doon sa lugar natin sa Makati. Ngayon, ang sabi
naman nung isang anak ko, Alam mo ang problema
dyan dad? Alam mo kung anong problema ng mga
Internet provider na
yan? Given na yan na ang
major work force ngayon ay kaming mga kabataan,
P a g e | 34

from 23-35 years old. Kung yan ang maso-solve sa

problema natin sa bayan at in hand ni Senator Bam
ay
napakaganda.
Even
traffic
situation
Dad.
Natatrapik tayo ngayon, male-lessen. Bakit? Kasi

halos lahat ng mga work force nandun na sa bahay
nila lahat, magiInternet na lang. Ok sige Dad, sabi
ng anak kong si Jaja, pasabi mo Dad, na nagaaral sa
La
Salle,
na
magpakatotoo
ang
mga
Internet
providers. On the part of the NTC, kailangan po yung

steeper penalty dun sa nilagay nilang Administrative
final charge dun sa Internet provider, ano ba yun?
Ok, pag nagkamali sila, magfafile tayo. You know,
ang Judiciary natin medyo matagal yan. It is really an
uphill battle. Ako batang kalye noong Marcial Law.
Pinaglaban po namin noong 1986 yung mapababa
yung presyo ng gamot. Bilyon-bilyong piso po ang nilobby. Pero po, fortunately, on 2008, napasok po
namin na maipababa ang gamot. Threads, buyers,
lahat kaya ngayon lang po nag-proliferate ang
generics.Ang
sinasabi
ko
po,
kung
ito
po
ay
susuportahan natin, yung cause ni Senator Bam

Aquino, this is no longer a need. Hindi yung parang
basic or what. This is no longer a necessity kasi po
talagang uusad ang bansa
natin. Kakadating lang ng anak ko na si Jaja sa
airport. Sabi nya, Dad nakakainggit yung taga-ibang
P a g e | 35

bansa. Pag punta mo sa airport sa Hongkong para

kang nasa heaven. Yung susundo sayo kahit hindi
kasi makakapag-Internet ka, mabilis. Eh kanina Dad
hindi kita macontact eh. Nasan ba yung Ipad na
binigay ko sayo? Hindi ko na magamit anak kasi
nabuwisit ako. So, Sir this is actually an experience
of a father who invested education, gadgets sa mga
anak nila, byudo po ako. Pero ang problema yun po
alam na natin ng karamihan kung ano po ang
problema.
So,
ang
talaga
pong
nakikita
kong
solusyon is:
1. Anong mangyayari kung Administrative Charge
lang ang ipapataw natin? Ano ba yung penalty?
2. They also give time to the Internet providers. Ano
ba
talagang
kailangan
nila?
Baka
siguro
pwedeng mag-joint ang government and then at

the
same
time
yung
private.
Para
po
masolusyunan ito, magpondohan o iopen nila sa

market para pagdating ng player pag-aralan
yung task. Yun po ang pinararating ng anak ko.
Kung nagawa po namin iyon sa pagpapababa ng
gamot for the last 25 years. Mabababa na po ang
mga gamot ngayon kaya nakikita nyo po ang
mga Generics Pharmacy. Nilaban po namin yun
nung time ni Presidente Gloria to Mar Roxas at
iba pa. So, ang masasabi ko lang po alam naman
nila. Siguro dapat papakinggan natin yung mga
P a g e | 36

Internet providers kung ano ba talaga ang

problema? Dad, naka-10MBPS na po tayo,
magdownload ka, nagla-lag. Kawawa naman
yung anak kong prepaid. Lalo ako Dad, galing
ako ng Baguio, pagdating ko sa Makati medyo
mababa na ang ware ko. Kung ang tanong sulit,
hindi siguro sulit. Dahil from 1-2,5,10 MBPS na
kami sa San Antonio Village sa Makati. Maski sa
Sanktwaryo , tinanong namin ang mga pari, kasi
nagse-serve din po ako sa Sanktwaryo. Pabalikbalik ako from Cagayan to Manila. So, ang
kailangan lang po talaga tulungan natin sila.
Tutukan po natin. Ang Tri-Media kailangan po.
Ganon po ang ginawa namin, radyo, telebisyon,
para po bumaba ang presyo ng gamot. Kaya po,
yun lang po.
Nagpapasalamat po ako at muli
andito po ako. At salamat po Senator Bam

Aquino, suportahan po natin sila.
MS. SANTOS =
Good afternoon Mr. Chairman, and to the NTC
Officials and to our guests. My name is Mary Grace
Santos, I am an
Independent Telecomnizing Team Policy Researcher. I
am here because I submitted an opinion of Learn
Asia to the NTC. Learn Asia is a Regional ICT policy. It
is based in Sri Lanka but it is very active across Asia
P a g e | 37

Pacific and it has been doing Broadband Quality of

Service Experience Tests since 2010 and basically
Learn Asia has been working with several regulators
across the region and it is recommending the
diagnostic tools to be used as well as the
methodology that
(cont. Ms. Santos)

can be provided both to the regulator and the users
in order to measure Broadband quality of service.
I will just give a brief summary of the opinion of
Learn Asia. I was involved in the QS Tests of Learn
Asia from 2010. I did the tests for Broadband Service
for Smart, Globe and Sun Cellular from 2010 to 2014.
So according to Learn Asia, it is very important to
differentiate between fixed and Mobile Broadband
Service. I would like to apologize because I was late
and I do not know it this was discussed earlier. But it
is important to point out that number one (1), there
has to be guidelines that clearly differentiate
between the quality of fixed and mobile service
because basically in fixed Broadband the Telephone
Companies or the providers can control the over
booking factor. Meaning they know how much
bandwidth they have giving their pay stations and
they also can control how many subscribers use that
pay station. But it is very different for mobile
P a g e | 38

Broadband. Those that we use for our Cellular

Networks because relatively speaking the operators
do not have control over the booking factor. But what
is clear is that we have to define a threshold for the
minimum level of service for fix and mobile
Broadband. Just to give an example, in Sri Lanka, the
regulator publicized diagnostic to install their website
so
(cont. Ms. Santos)
whenever there are disputes, the regulator, the
consumer and the TelCos will use that diagnostic tool.
Again it is web based it is software so it is accessible
to everyone. The Sri Lankan regulator mandates at
least 70%percent of the advertised speed for fixed
Broadband. It also set a lower threshold which means
that service should not drop below 40%. But in terms
of mobile Broadband, the lower threshold is 30%. So
it is much lower simply because at 70% but just not
go below 40% for fixed because they can, in fix the
TelCos have control over the overbooking factor. The
next point is that when we propose or when we adopt
a diagnostic tool, we should not just focus on the
advertised speed or the theoretical speed that a
device can or has the capacity to offer but we also
have to look into the realistic skim that the network
can provide. Just to share briefly, since I have been
conducting the QAS Test for the past four (4) years
P a g e | 39

by the way Learn Asia has been using what is called

the AT Tester Method, it is a very rigorous
methodology it measures 6 parameters which
include download speed, upload speed, latency,
packet loss and network availability and the tester
conducted across multiple days and also multiple
time slots in a day. For the first quarter of 2014, the
results of the QS Test that we did found that Smart,
Globe and Sun Cellular were not able to provide at
least 256 KBPS by the ITU is the speed that
(cont. Ms. Santos)
Broadband service should be at least the minimum.
But it needs to be emphasized that it is not only the
download speed that is important, as what Ms.
Nacerna already mentioned a while ago, you also
have to measure latency and packet loss which are
important for other things not only browsing but you
have your chat, some applications, and you have
your DOIP which all our OFWs can use and other
services. In terms of measuring Broadband quality,
we have to emphasize the roles and responsibilities. I
would like to emphasize, yes it is the regulator, the
NTC, in this case that has to mandate or come up
with the diagnostics tool. But it needs to be
consumers center meaning the consumer should be
able to use the diagnostic tools and be empowered
to use it in order to contest or complain to TelCos.
P a g e | 40

Because if you only have the diagnostic tools and

internal to the regulator, it would be difficult for the
consumers to launch their complaints. Also the
challenge there is to adopt a sound methodology and
present the directions apparently in a way that can
be understood by the common consumers. So
sometimes we get lost in the jargons, 8% service rate
reliability, et cetera, but we need to, as the regulator,
it is recommended for you to explain what those
actually means and how did we arrive at those rates.
Lastly, I think it also needs to be emphasized that
when you measure a parameter of download speed,
we need to specify
(cont. Ms. Santos)
from which server are we measuring this? Is this from
Marine International Server? Is this from one ISP to
another ISP? Or is this the speed within the local ISP.
And you also need to measure latency and
emphasize which domain you are using. Whether the
national local or within ISPs. And lastly it has to be a
Multi Stake Holder Approach. I can site several
examples of how other countries have done the
diagnostics of Broadband Quality Service. Since it is
recommended to the NTC get the participation and
involve in to many stakeholders as much as possible
you may consider the following:
P a g e | 41

1. You can hire researchers to do the tests in various

locations. This is actually what Learn Asia has
been doing;
2. You can enlist volunteers to carry out the
diagnostics, this is being done in South Africa;
3. You can publicized the quality of service
diagnostic tool on your website and it is also done
by FCC in the United States of America;
4. You can also host a diagnostic tool for public
consumption. This is being done by the Sri Lankan
regulator; or
5. You can define Broadband quality benchmarks
that must be adhered to and request the service
providers to report
(cont. Ms. Santos)
this. This is the one being done by India the
regulator in India; and last but not least
6. If you are to choose a software or a web based
tool, you may collaborate with engineering
colleges nationwide so you do not need to hire
consultants to do this. But then, this is only
recommended if the diagnostic tool is software
based. Because it is very important that the
TelCos or MIS would still do not know the location
of where the test is being conducted. Just for the
challenge. Thank you.
P a g e | 42

COMMISSIONER =
Ms. Santos, I have some questions, first well just to
let everyone know that the Congress approves sa
budget hearing po namin for the Lower House muna.
We have not finished plenary yet in the Senate we
were given 15.5 Million I think to buy the
benchmarketing for Broadband but this is something
that you have to bring to different places. So ayun po
ang gagamitin namin but the suggestion that you
mentioned, iyan pong diagnostic could really be a big
help to us. Actually, we have been talking to DOST on
this item, nagpapatulong po kami but maybe you can
also help us kung papaano. You are part of Learn Asia
right?
MS. SANTOS =
No Sir. I was hired as a Consultant to do the
diagnostic tests but I am not part of Learn Asia.
COMMISSIONER =
Yun bang paggawa nung diagnostic tool na iyon na
ginagamit ng Learn Asia was done by the
engineering schools that you mentioned?
MS. SANTOS =
P a g e | 43

Actually, the diagnostic tool AT Tester has evolved

from tool being used by users into one that is being
used by regulators. It was the first developed by IIP
Mudrass and then several Engineering Institutes in
South Asia helped to develop and enhance the tool.
COMMISSIONER =
Question lang po, is it possible to import that to the
Philippines?
MS. SANTOS =
This is free. It is available online sir. It is sort of
similar to your open signal Ookla tools but this one
was developed by Engineering Institutes.
COMMISSIONER =
So ngayon po if for example we can use that for fix
and wireless or both?
MS. SANTOS =
Yes.
P a g e | 44

COMMISSIONER =
Does it, when I look at the PLDTs letter kasi sa amin,
may difference din kapag naka-Viber ka, yung
ginagamit mo ding equipment sa loob ng bahay mo
like for example we receive several complaints from
certain customer or client of a TelCo but when we
went to their house and nagpadala na nga ng tao
ngTelco sa bahay nalaman na ang problema pala ay
yung kanilang equipment sa loob. So can that
diagnose that the problem is the bandwidth or the
problem is the equipment of the user?
MR. ACERO =
My name is Francis Acero from Democracy.net.ph.
The whole point of this system is to test it for the
multiple occassion without the telco being aware. If
you have sample of number then you give a cut of
the outliers so as soon as the fill-uppers. So you
can see if ten people have this quality service and
one is an outlier which is far from the
whole then you can tell NTC that the problem is the
computer of the user.
MS. SANTOS =
P a g e | 45

Sir, that is why it is very important to involve as

many people as possible and not just conduct an
internal diagnostics so that as you mentioned, you
will see the outliers. And then if you see that, then
you can look at the possible problem why that
certain household would have a different quality as
compared to the others.
SEN. AQUINO =
Chairman, I have a question about Data Casting ISPs,
would you know kung mabagal ang service in an
area? Either from Globe or Smart or from other ISPs
wants to answer?
MR. ACERO =
Before we answer that Mr. Senator, first of all we
would like to thank the Commission and the good
senator for allowing
us, the PLDT Group, to be here also to discuss our
position regarding the matter. Allow me first Mr.
Senator if it is okay to comment on the discussion on
the use of the tools, the diagnostics tools being
proposed or being discussed by Ms. Santos. If we
backtrack a little, alam po natin na yung confusions
here that there really are things on the Social
P a g e | 46

network, these Internet measuring websites like

Ookla and Akamai, came out with their own results of
how slow or how fast the Internet here in the
Philippines. So what we did was, in the PLDT, we also
consulted with the ITU. I do not know if everybody
here is familiar with the ITU. The ITU is the
International Telecommunications Union which is the
highest policy thinking. It is a UN Organization which
specifically tackles telecommunications and
fortunately, commercial lang, nanalo ang Philippines
ulit sa re-election last week lang, so we are already a
part again of the counsel in the ITU. Anyway, ang
recommendation po kasi ng ITU with regards to the
Diagnostic Tools online web like Ookla, Akamay and
all prompt possibly audios signing up is a very similar
to other diagnostic tools. Ang comment nila kasi is
that it does not really paint an accurate picture of
what the Internet speed is in the given country. Ang
position po ng ITU is that, example, sa publication for
Internet speed
(cont. Mr. Acero)
measurement yung Microsoft Network Speed Test,
Upload Speed Test, of course Ookla will also be there.
Ang position ng ITU is that the obstacles to these
existing measurement systems are:
1. It cannot be used by operators to maintain
customer service level agreements. Masyadong
P a g e | 47

maraming variables which I think our position

paper can also be discussed by my colleagues
given on the technical side. But this diagnostics
tools do not really accurately paint the existing
variables on the ground;
2. It is not transparent for all the IST players. So both
operators and regulators pati kayo po, NTC, are
blind kung ano ba talaga ang methodology na
ginagamit nitong mga online diagnostic tools na
mga ito; and lastly
3. It does not guarantee the test results include only
operators network. So marami talagang mga
variable na even ganun, hindi talaga nagiging
accurate ang measurement nung actual ISP na
gusto ninyong i-measure.
Ok, let me get back to the existing Memorandum
Order, itong 07-07-2011. When this Memorandum
Circular was being discussed three years ago, the
PCTO and the carriers of course, again, made our
position that Internet is a regulated service but
none the less, we need not
(cont. Mr. Acero)

legally raised this on appeal, we accepted it
because we felt also that the consumers also
should have a fair share on the service. And
P a g e | 48

probably, what lead to the confusion was that

from 2011to 2014, ayun nga po, hindi na nga po
talaga siguro beacuase of budget limitations,
because of infrastructure limitations, hindi
nagkaroon ng actual implementing rules ito, kung
papaano talaga ime-measure yung speed based
on NTCs perspective. And ang nangyari is that,
nagkaroon ng from 2011 up to now, even the ITU
admittedly states the same problem that there is
so many independent diagnostic tools that are
toying around now in the Internet and there is so
many different private institutions offering so
many different services. But ang point ng ITU is
that the regulator itself should be given the
opportunity to measure that quality of service and
not be given to a third party. So ayun po ang point
ng ITU. In fact, what they are doing right now is
that they are conducting an International Unified
Approach so that these principles of how to
measure Internet quality be adapted by all the
different regulatory jurisdictions internationally.
And if my colleagues from the PLDT Group would
like to generally make an overview what we
submitted to the NTC, we included in the position
paper the many variables that we included in the
position paper the many variables that affect
actually
P a g e | 49

(cont. Mr. Acero)

measuring the quality of service and we would like
actually to, for the records, to include these
variables, these factors to be taken into
consideration specially when measuring the Internet
quality of service.
SEN. AQUINO =
Before your colleague gives the position paper, I
would like to ask kung alam ba ng ISP kung mabagal
yung service ng area? Would you have that data or
that is really dependent from the consumers
experience?
MR. ACERO =
Hindi po ako technical part ng network, but what I
know is because of the FUP
SEN. AQUINO =
What is FUP?
MR. ACERO =
Fair Usage Policy nakikita po dyan in the certain area
kapag po merong nagha-hack ng bandwidth and I
P a g e | 50

think that is part and parcel of the FUP that they are
able to manage the Internet in
(cont. Mr. Acero)
that area to be able to give a more reasonable
usage of Internet in that given area.
SEN. AQUINO =
Who is the technical person here Attorney? What is
your name Sir?
MR. SIENA =
Good afternoon Senator, I am Arvin Siena for PLDT.
SEN. AQUINO =
I have a question, alam ba ng system kung nacongest for example in an area, will the system know
na mabagal sya? Or you just have the, forgive me for
my terms huh? So you stack the bandwidth and hindi
nyo na alam kung ano ang consumers experience or
would the system know that within an area,
masyadong maraming tao na gumagamit and
therefor mabagal yung experience.
P a g e | 51

ENGR. SIENA =
Let me just start with the Fixed line because as what
Ms. Grace mentioned, yung fixed line is different with
the mobile.
SEN. AQUINO =
Maybe we can go with the mobile na kasi yung Fixed
Line I think there are less complaints with that. Sa
Mobile nalang kasi I think 90% or 92% so it is 90+%.
ENGR. SIENA =
Sa mobile po, I hope my Smart colleagues were here
ano? But for the mobile side, lahat po ng ating base
station, mayroong capacity yan. So we are
monitoring its capacity, kung full capacity na ang
base station. What makes it difficult is really yung
mobile is heavily dependent on: 1. The users in the
area which is very unpredictable. Although we have
a certain limit capacity assigned per base station; 2.
The device. Marami pong variants ng device, merong
naka 2G, naka 3G.
SEN. AQUINO =
Some are faster than the others.
P a g e | 52

ENGR. SIENA =
Meron po kasing kapag nasa loob ng conference
room, tsaka kung nasa bulsa mo yung device or nasa
ilalim ng mesa it affects the speed. Yun po yung mga
factors on mobile side. But to answer your question
in a given base station, cellsite, yes we know the
capacity; yes we know if there will be slow down.
That is why kapag mayroon pong mga malalaking
event, specially yung nangyari dun sa Philippine
Arena, yung opening ng PBA, nagbuhos tayo sa mga
sites dyan. It is not normal na ginagawa, pero yung
mga malalaking event lang. Kasi ang maaapektuhan
ay hindi lang yung data pati yung voice.
SEN. AQUINO =
And this data, you have this over years, so you were
able to analyze this data?
ENGR. SIENA =
In a certain, real time po kasi yun Senator, makikita
natin yan sa system kapag tinignan namin yung
system makikita namin yung bandwidth within the
station. So malalaman po namin kapag mabagal kasi
napupuno yung system kapag maraming users.
P a g e | 53

SEN. AQUINO =
Well, I do not want to put you in a spot too much,
konti lang. But so kung alam nyo ang speed with in
an area, apat (4) na subscribers, you do not know
kung what they subscribed to, ano? Sa mobile
naman there is just one speed, wala ka namang DM
Systems sa mobile ano?
ENGR. SIENA =
Sa mobile po kasi, talagang limited tayo ng
technology. We cannot do anything about that. Yung
availability ng frequency na binigay sa atin ng NTC,
yun ang nagli-limit sa sa mga users natin in a given
base station.
SEN. AQUINO =
Is it the bandwidth of NTC? Hindi ba hindi pa naman
killed-up yung bandwidth na yun diba?
ENGR. SIENA =
Yung frequency po natin sa isang base station
kailangan definite exact band width na pwedeng
gamitin ng mga users. So kapag bumuhos sa isang
P a g e | 54

area for example yung ating isang cellsite dito, hindi

naman talaga normally ginagamit yun ng maraming
tao. Sobrang daming tao natin dito today tapos
sabay sabay tayong gumamit.
SEN. AQUINO =
Kaya mabagal talaga.
ENGR. SIENA =
Mabagal po talaga.
SEN. AQUINO =
But how is this data over years? What I am headed
sa tanong ko is that you would know in the given
area kung ano talaga ang nakukuha nilang average
speed. Let us say for example, in East Avenue,
Quezon City, based on your historical data, you
would know kung ano yung average speed in this
area? Per area?
ENGR. SIENA =
Yes Senator. Kasi gumagawa din po kami ng sariling
testing
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 55

Yes. So the speed, the average speed over years,

masasabi natin, historically, yun talaga yung speed
sa lugar na yun. So maybe, sa kalagitnaan ng EDSA,
mas mabagal doon kasi mas maraming tao
compared to maybe dyan sa Quezon Circle na mas
konti ang tao for example. In that case, you would be
able
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
to say kung ano talaga ang speed mo within a given
area in general?
ENGR. SIENA =
In general, yes Senator.
SEN. AQUINO =
How far would this be from the advertised rates that
you have? Are we meeting 80% rates of reliability or
80% of the time na naabot natin yung speed based
on this data?
ENGR. SIENA =
I do not have the data right now.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 56

I do not want to put you in the spot too much but if

we are tackling about many things. Ito, in particular,
is really more than the advertising sa circular na ito.
So gusto kong malaman, based on what we advertise
or based on what we claim na ito yung mabilis, or
based on our Historical data, malayo ba tayo or
malapit? Or it really depends on per area?
ENGR. SIENA =
Depende po talaga sa area kasi kung yung mga
areas na naka LTE o yung mga areas na 3G, yung iba
naka X pa tayo yung mga nauna.
SEN. AQUINO =
So you are saying na iba parin yung users
experience even on the average speed of an area?
ENGR. SIENA =
Iba padin po. Tsaka yung device po, kasi may mga
device that supports LTE, that supports 3G, and that
supports X, so mahirap po talaga. Pero ang ginagawa
po namin, nagte- test po talaga kami.
SEN. AQUINO =
And the test, you share it to the NTC?
P a g e | 57

ENGR. SIENA =
Si NTC po meron din po syang sariling testor
working test.
SEN.AQUINO =
Ngayon palang yata sila kasi ngayon palang sila
nakakuha ng pondo for that set-up. But I think
starting next year, they will get the budget so that
they will be able to have tests on their own. Ito kasi, I
am a user and I am paying for my Internet.
Maraming variables to determine whether I am
getting the service that I think I should be getting.
Now, obviously a lot of people, hindi sila masaya sa
experience nila and the TelCos also wants them to
experience what they should experience diba? We
also want them to experience what they should
experience. Kanina si Carlos mentioned about
infrastructure, open access, and the private sector
working together. Yes we will tackle those things
probably in the Senate Hearing. But in particular
itong advertisement na ito. Kaya ba or is it even
doable for an ISP to say their minimum speed and be
able to stick to it? At least 80% of the time? Is it
P a g e | 58

possible or in your professional opinion, masyadong

maraming variables?
ENGR. SIENA =
Syempre marami pong variables Senator. Yun po kasi
yung nature ng mobile technology. So as I
mentioned, kapag biglang dumami ang user sa area
na ito, babagsak kaagad yung service reliability ng
kung limited talaga yung sa area na yun.
Nagkakaroon kami ng mga additional cell sites kapag
alam natin na malaki ang number ng gumagamit.
SEN. AQUINO =
Paminsaminsan lang yan e. Kapag may events lang.
But in a regular day, for example. Kasi I think what
you are trying to say is maraming factors, luma ba or
bago? What else can we measure? I think the other
resource speakers here can talk you know? Is there
something else that we can measure first that will
determine the speed that users can get?
MR. ACERO=
Actually Mr. Senator, taking this from what Ms.
Santos mentioned earlier, iba po kasi talaga yung
experience ng fixed line from wireless. Sa fixed, mas
madali po talaga syang i-measure, sa wireless kahit
po siguro balikan nyo yung mga ibang (experts) like
P a g e | 59

ITU, dun po talaga nagkakaproblema given that it is

a wireless service, medyo complicated din po talaga
ng konti yang pag-address ng issue how to measure
the speed and also po yung quality ng service. Kaya
nga po natutuwa kami na by next year,
magkakaroon na po talaga ng gadgets po ang NTC,
mga measuring device para naman po hopefully
maisama kami sa proseso din kung papaano yung
actual parameters that is the reason why we also
submitted yun pong position paper ng PLDT Group to
at least recommend the NTC saan po ba, addressing
the three (3) factors involved:
1. What parameters are to be measured?
(cont. Mr. Acero)

2. How is it to be measured in its whole measure?
and the last point is
3. The point of being able to arbitrate kung
magkakaroon man ng penalties.
The point is, doon sa tatlo (3), what, how and who
will measure yun po yung nagbigay po kami ng
suggestions sa position paper kung saan po sya
magandang i-measure. Sa fix and sa wireless din po
kung saan din po.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 60

So okay, in the case of NTC, so they will have the

equipment next year and ang sinasabi nyo, they can
measure in a given area at kung bagsak then they
can mean out the fine. Pero kung pasado, okay na?
So you are saying that you are willing to be subject
to that? The ISPCs and the TelCos?
MR. ACERO =
Ang dahilan naman namin is that we are asked to
submit comments to the Memorandum Order for
additional inputs on the major issues which is how to
measure, what to measure and who will measure. So
nag-submit po kami ng suggestions namin on that
without abandoning our original position which is, of
course, Internet is a deregulated service
(cont. Mr. Acero)
given that we would not like the consumers the
whole fair share, so we will just also submitting our
recommendations on how to go about that
measurement.
SEN. AQUINO =
Well on that note, because this is not really an NTC
issue because this is probably a DTI issue because it
is all about the consumers protection issue as well.
And kung hindi ako nagkakamali, nagkaroon na ng
P a g e | 61

usapin ang DTI at NTC and my opinion is that this is

far from the regulation because we are just checking
what people are getting. We are not telling you kung
magkano dapat ang charges, and kung ano dapat
yung speed. We are just benchmarking through your
advertised speed which of course comes from the
private sector itself. Galing din yun sa inyo yun. So in
that case it is quite far from the regulation in my
opinion and in fact it is near the consumer protection
issue. Probably it is where it all started. Let me ask
Grace. Ms. Grace, in those other countries, kunyari
sa FESCO, their regulator assigned a particular tool
and I tested and found out na mabagal nga or hindi
pumasok sa standard yung current situation ko, what
would they do?
MS. SANTOS =
Sir, I would like to emphasize that if you have a
common tool which is what we are recommending.
And they will have a common reference for basically
addressing this issue.
SEN. AQUINO =
Like what you mentioned earlier in Sri Lanka, 70%.
P a g e | 62

MS. SANTOS =
Yes Sir. That is for Sri Lanka.So there is 70% of
download speed, and that is only one parameter.
SEN. AQUINO =
At any given time?
MS. SANTOS=
Yes.
SEN. AQUINO =
So meaning to say at any given time if less than 70%

pwede na silang mag-control?
MS. SANTOS=
Sir meron po silang lower threshold na 40%. I guess
that will address yung kapag merong outliers, yung
kapag merong big event like more consumers
subscribing or using the Internet.
SEN. AQUINO =
How will you be able to get 40% if you are not testing
every single minute or hour?
P a g e | 63

MS. SANTOS =
That is another thing, if we adopt the diagnostic tool,
the test should be done in multiple times during a
day and then we will get the average rate in a
month. So that will be your basis. So it could not be
done just once or in one time or in just one day. Sir
kasi po ang kailangan you recognize that there are
off peaks and there are peak hours. So kailangan
may peak day test ka, may week ends. At least that
is what we recommended.
SEN. AQUINO =
So in that case, the regulator is doing the testing
mostly?
MS. SANTOS =
The regulator is doing the testing but the diagnostic
tool is also made available to the public.
SEN. AQUINO =
So they can compare the data?
MS. SANTOS =
P a g e | 64

Exactly Sir. So that they can compare data.
SEN. AQUINO =
But to ask one person to determine kung 40% of the
time, kung umaabot ba sa 70% download speed.
Probably, possible because they have to work. They
have to do the testing.
MS. SANTOS =
And also the location would have to be a variable and
the equipment being used.
SEN. AQUINO =
So it is still per area type of decision.
MS. SANTOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So hindi sya per user na sa bahay ko..hindi sya
ganun ano?
MS. SANTOS =
P a g e | 65

Not necessarily per user but if you have a bigger

sample, then that would determine more accurately
at least relatively speaking. Kasi there cannot be an
accurate measurement talaga of Broadband situation
in the Philippines then you can have a benchmark for
saying this would be the acceptable service offering.
SEN. AQUINO =
And what are the penalties from there?
MS. SANTOS =
Sir, I am not familiar po with the penalties.
SEN. AQUINO =
Because we just want to also manage expectations.
Kasi parang medyo, basically, impossible na matetest mo yung
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
80% in my house and somebody is just checking all
throughout. So it is aggregated type of data
gathering.
MS. SANTOS =
Yes. And at least, if there is a complainant in a
specific location, then you can aggregate all the
P a g e | 66

other measurements being done in that particular

location. But I do not want to point out on this
because as what our good friends from PLDT
mentioned a while ago that there are these open
resource diagnostics tools out there, even the
regulators are being kept in the dark. There is
actually recommending that the regulator works with
whoever will develop the tool. And for us to be
transparent, you have to involve the consumers and
for it to be neutral, then the TelCo should not know
the locations of the test.
SEN. AQUINO =
Yes. So in the case of NTC, Commissioner and this is
an unsolicited advice, since you will have your
equipment next year, maybe you can have a high
breed system where you check and then it is also
counter check from the consumers. But, tama ano, it
would not be the type that single person, single
complaint, single refund. It will be in general because
that has to be an aggragated type. Maybe I can go
back to the
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
question Mr. Arvin right? You have the data. So you
would know kung ano yung minimum speed na
naibibigay ninyo in different areas. You would have
that information also through your system.
P a g e | 67

ENGR. SIENA =
We will check that Mr. Senator. Because if ever there
will be a data baka hindi ganoon kahaba or ganoon
kalaki.
SEN. AQUINO =
But atleast the breakdown of the data, you would
also have your own data and you can validate it.
ENGR. SIENA =
Yes. But in general, yung usage ng bawat areawhat
we are tracking kasi is yung usage in terms of
volume sa mobile. Yung usage when it comes to
bandwidth.
SEN. AQUINO =
Amount of downloaded data.
ENGR. SIENA =
Yes sir. How many bytes.
SEN.AQUINO =
P a g e | 68

And not the speed.
ENGR. SIENA =
Yes sa bytes, hindi po sya yung mbps or kbps. So
ayun po, ang nakakakita po nyan kasi ay yung
mismong user.
SEN. AQUINO =
Question, meron or kaya ba ninyokasi kanina
parang na-mention na hindi nyo kaya, kaya ba talaga
to promote and to assure a minimum? Is it even
possible kasi you have to tell us right now if you do
not even think it is possible. But do you think it is
possible? Kasi we have an up-to speed which is
advertised. People are asking, Bakit hindi ko
naaabot?ang sagot is because it have variables.
Things change. So the question is can we now
propose and stick to a minimum speed. Is that
doable?
ENGR. SIENA =
I think we have to look at how the idea will come up
with in this measurement tools or procedurekasi
P a g e | 69

yung technology mo kasi ganun talaga sya from zero

to x number. So as far as minimal expose, hindi mo
sya ma-aassure on at least todays technology. But I
think if there will be a process of proposal that we
can be reviewed, pwede nating i-test and isimulate
SEN. AQUINO =
What about the other ISPs?
ATTY. IBAY =
Good afternoon Mr. Senator. Good Afternoon
Commissioner. And to everybody, sir you mentioned
the matter of carrying a while ago and that is where I
want to start. I think as early as 2011, the ISP
providers already proposed a compromise whereby
subscribers with more stringent Broadband volume
requirement who would move away from the typical
limited services and to the type of service provide for
their particular volume requirement, they will have to
pay more and if they wanted only certain number of
volume and they might have to pay premium service.
We are not against that kind of service because that
is fair and there are substantially distinguished
among these
(cont. Atty. Ibay)
P a g e | 70

three classes. And in answer to your question of

whether we can guarantee minimum speed, maybe it
is not possible to absolutely guarantee still but
maybe the ICP providers will be able to make those
guarantees for they higher paying subscribers
because they have a right to demand for a certain
volume that was contracted to them. And if the
TelCos or the ISPs failed, then that is when the TelCos
will be liable. The problem is on the unlimited
service. And this is worth the analogy of Mr. Delos
Reyes, comes in because this is a mass based
service. It is not really possible to guarantee its
speed considering then number of people who use
the unlimited service at the same time. And if you
know somebody who has the term Torrent wherein
it is like a booster pump that robs the others for their
fair use of the service. That is why it is not possible
to guarantee a minimum speed for an unlimited
service. For non-unlimited services then the
providers will be bond by their contract with the
subscribers such that if they fail to give that
minimum service, then they will be liable.
SEN. AQUINO =
Attorney, mahirap po yata yan because we are
basically saying for the 1% na may ganong klaseng
P a g e | 71

agreement. We can assure them but for the 90+% na

everybody else you
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
cannot assure them. And you are paying as well. Ok,
if we cannot assure them, if in your opinion we
cannot assure a minimum speed, can we assure a
percentage of the up to speed? Kasi ang mahirap
kasi dito is we put out numbers but we cannot really
assure of any of those numbers. Hindi ka pwede
maglagay ng minimum kasi di ka pwede maglagay
ng technology. Maglalagay ako ng up-to pero hindi
ko sure kung anong up-to yung makukuha ng
consumer. So, we should say that Internet service,
yung presyo, wala na lang assurances. But the fact
that you have these numbers out there and we used
at to increase the peers or even nice consumers, we
need to be able to have standards with regard to
those numbers. And NTC is doing their best to and
hopefully, we can also involve the consumers with
regards to the speed advertised. Ano yung kaya
nating maipangako dun sa mga numerong iyon so
this can be the service that we can apply. Is there at
least something that we can have that meron tayong
batayan for possible complaints? May batayan tayo
for people to check their experiences as well?
ATTY. IBAY =
P a g e | 72

I am not a technical person but I think the up to is

play there because the provider is confident because
all of the time it
(cont. Atty. Ibay)

will be able to provide. But a certain minimum is
quite a different manner especially if it is a
Broadband service.
SEN. AQUINO =
If you are forcing most of the time, can you agree on
what most of the time is? I mean 80% even if the
TelCos has 70% of the time maaabot mo yung upto mo? At least may batayan tayo for people to talk
about their experiences. Because at the end it is
better for TelCos to have that standard because,
then, in our hearings we say that when people
experience or they complain, sinasabi din nila before
na baka hindi naman yun all through out, baka isa
yung one time experience. But at least ito, there will
be standard by which all of us can agree on. So, I
mean, the Memorandum Circular currently says 80%
on minimum but if it is for 80% of up-to speed can
wedefine as well? As long as may batayan lang
talaga tayo? Would the TelCos have a proposal? Yes
Sir?
P a g e | 73

MR. DELOS REYES =

Sir, I just like to emphasize that was mention by Atty.
Ibay.
This Internet service is a must service to, so shared
talaga sya. You are asking whether we can guarantee
certain
percentage. To be frank at this point, it is very
difficult perhaps, they can look into the measuring
state being
discussed right now. But at this moment we do not
have it yet. So we do not know even if we say, okay
90% Sir or 80%. We do not know the measuring state
will be, next year if the NTC will adopt as mentioned
there were several parameters that you can use for
measuring devices or technology. At this such time,
Your Honor, siguro we can speculate if we ca get into
the base. Unless we can see what the NTC intends to
do and what they tend to adopt in measuring. And it
is difficult because we can only speculate.
COMMISSIONER =
Maybe other suggestion from the TelCos para meron
kaming basis on what to procure for that equipment.
Maybe Dep Com Inday can tell us on what
equipment will we be having. Thanks.
P a g e | 74

Dep. Com. Deles =

Actually, we will be purchasing empty benchmarking
equipment for 2015.
MR. MOLINA =
First, there are several things that we would like to
say. First, from the arguments being forwarded is
that, are we
(cont. Mr. Molina)
being made to say that the standards that can be set
for fixed line? Because it appears that all the
variables only affect mobile subscribers then then at
least the standard in the Memorandum Order covers
all forms of Broadband. So, maybe, we can
encourage a group of to fixed-line. Second one, we
submitted a draft proposal for the Memorandum
Order. Part of it is on the fair usage policy. As we
understand that the firms policy is part and parcel
on how you are able to determine at least at
minimum. We were asking that to set a minimum
standard but then there must be some given date.
But then what we have noted in our personal needs
is that it does not mean to be a rational basis in
actual use for that fair use standard. For example, I
had a sick daughter who has been hospitalized.
P a g e | 75

Anyone has a daughter at around 5-7 know that their

thing now is watching Youtube videos. Just watching
videos, my daughter was able to finish the fair use
policy. Was she doing legitimate use of the Internet?
Yes. And was it done with just within the commercials
that again put out? Yes. Did she come up across the
fair use policy? Yes. Coming to that, we put in some
suggestions on how to arrive at a fair use in what is
commensurate in what is being advertised. That is
also because when we advertise a certain speed that
we can connect up to on the Internet, there comes
certain expectations, specially, when our device now
is more
(cont. Mr. Molina)
powerful and necessarily consume more data. If we
say, okay, we can offer you LTE service which is up
to, the best one that I received was 6mbps. But then
there is a fair usage of 801 gig. How much actual use
is that? It is not going to be much. It should be to the
user. It is just known that we need to lower the
spectation for today. So, what will be the consumer
actually get? If it is much lower then the service was
initially advertise or proposed to you. Now, we are
tyring to be very fair in coming up with the standards
of what fair usage policy should be. For example,
with data caps. The rules on data caps is to not
extend to prepaid consumers. For example, you
P a g e | 76

may go to postpaid consumers. And then you are

tyring get more clarification from whether you can
actually give the service level standards for fixed
line. Because the variables again that you have been
mentioning, for example, whether all of these are
entirely in control of the TelCo. Also, if it is a fixed
line, it does mean that the software base opens for
solution will be available already for the use of the
regulator because there are less variables. And
again, the variables are entirely within the control of
the TelCo. You can also provide means to access the
particular tool sa procedure. So, you can come up to
the result that would be recognized, you have to
follow these steps: ,1,2,3 and 4. And that should
eliminate a lot of the variables at least when it comes
to the fixed line.
(cont. Mr. Molina)
I think the concern raised by our father here was
more of a fixed line problem because a fix line is
being used for telecommuting, for connecting with
loved ones abroad through mobile.
COMMISSIONER =
Actually, based on what you mentioned, we can
actually issue two Memorandum Circulars: One for
fixed line with a different parameter and another
general order for wireless. So, that is all.
P a g e | 77

SEN. AQUINO =
We have a technical question who wants to answer?
Dun sa wireless, di ba to the cell site? There is
certain amount of bandwith that we are able to push
through di ba? Then from the cell site to the
consumer yun yung apektado ng mga variables. Is it
right? That is right. So, can we measure hanggang sa
cell site yung flow of bandwidth and then have like as
we agree to a standard kunwari, in a certain area
ganito yung density nya. So, we go away of the times
na dumarami bigla yung mga tao. Dito sa cell site
can we measure that and can that be the standard,
for example? Kasi we will get with that variable that
we discussed earlier
MR. MOLINA =
If we can measure it? The answer is yes but based on
the aggregate bandwidth. So meron po tayong
bandwidth every station na makikita natin na kung
ano ang actual speed sa buong paligid.
SEN. AQUINO =
Would you be amenable na yun yung measure?
Atleast alam namin na yun yung measuring speed di
P a g e | 78

ba? Kasi we are saying that the cell site consumer

has a lot variable that is taking away of the variables.
MR. MOLINA =
That is another option, Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Would that be fair way measure for a sample speed
on a given area? Ang cell site may area of a
responsibility coverage yan di ba? So they can say,
Oh ito yung acceptable speed on a certain areas. Is
that doable?
MR. MOLINA =
That is doable, Sir. Because there were stations na
iniikutan. Athough it does not reflect actual use of a
customer. Actually, Mr. Senator, when you look at the
position paper of the PLDT medyo graphic nga ang
picture namin. We actually have pictures. It actually
recommends kung saan po yung dapat i-measure. More or
less mas accurate po ang picture sa Internet.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 79

No, I have not seen your position paper because it was

sent to NTC not to my office. Is that part of it that you will
measure the.
MR. MOLINA =
Yes, Sir. Sir, I think that is where that it is covered by
subsidy kasi when you say they advertise a certain
bandwidth, kailangan umabot talaga doon. I mean on
80% pero kung naga-advertise tapos nag-over subscribe
ka beyond the capacity of area, magsusuffer talaga yung
performance. Ngayon, in that regards, I agree with
comments of our good friend here that we should have
standards measurement. It is important that we do a
measurement for the TelCos and I did not know where it
will. Kasi pwede silang mangdaya, mamali ng speeds dun
sa certain areas. Kunyari, na-identify nila na itong device
na gamit ng NTC you can
(cont. Mr. Molina)

find out on the ID na bago sa base station. Pag nakita
nyan na andito si Bam, tina-tackle down nya yung speeds
ng kumakain yung consumers para bigyan ng tinatawag
na Internet fast laneyung measuring device. So, yan yung
tinatawag na issue ng net neutrality. Wherein dapat magadvertise ng certain speed. Patas kayong lahat. Kaya
yung kinukwento ng good friend natin dito, I mean, if you
are going to have a 10mbps subscription, it should also be
P a g e | 80

fast. As this consumer state itong premium ang

kailangan. Hello, did you get what I mean? And then, dito
na din pumapasok na minsan parang yung statics For
example, we have a consumer looking for Broadband line.
So, mag-sho-shopping sya kung sino pwede. And we have
these things na okay we will give a free demo tapos
subscribe ka. So, during that free period maganda ang
service. Pero let us say 1 month na on the line bigla ng
bumabagsak. Hindi na makaakyat dun sa advertisement
speed kasi nag-over subscribe. So, pag nakikita na
ganyan yung area, maybe this TelCo sabihin nalang na,
Sorry, hindi na talaga kaya. Maybe we should apply
muna for infra tapos that is when you can subscribe
again. So, in addition to the special measurement
parameters, it is good that we have this forms of
measurement. Ang dami kasing methods eh. You can site
out reason but we have to have blind testing. That is a
must. We can outline measure for blind testing. Next,
okay, the terminology TelCos. I think our friends in Telcos
now have to change their name. Kasi like for LRE, there
are websites forcing where you can remote certaint
things There are professors who use google
(cont. Mr. Molina)
even for sample .Then you have that, kailangan readable
yung nilalagay na notes and yung codes. And if they are
learning English, readable lahat ng nasa screen. So, what
happens now you will clear the video to honor students.
Like for example, ako, nahihirapan ako kasi madaming
P a g e | 81

bago. And inspite that, I get the solid connection. So

ngayon, ginagawang complaints sa TelCos yun. But If you
have let us say 7feet HD Video which is fair use, you need
to be able to use it if you have 10mbps account kasi
binabayaran mo yan. And yung 108 na video na yun is
more expensive in bandwidth Torrenting. As a student
you need to do that. It is actually important that we do
this so that Filipinos in provices ay makakapagaral even
hindi na aabot sa captain universities. So, pag sinabi sa
advertisement na we are going to give you 10mbps,
kailangan may contingent uploads din yan dahil ako
bilang isang Filipino overseas masasabi kong malungkot
talaga pag nalalayo ka sapamilya mo. And importante
yung video na yun. And that is fair use di ba?
SEN. AQUINO =
We agreed on our good friend, Sir. Kasi nga overall kung
titingnan natin, I was a student, actually. Kaya kung overall 10mbps it will be usage. So, I do agree na yung fair
use policy ay kailangan talaga i-expound yun. Almost all
our researcher ay dumadaan sa Internet, maybe through
e-mail but mostly through Facebook. Facebook has its
features. And just to improve, dun na kami
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
nakikipag-coordinate in order for our staff na maicirculate yung work. So, yun nga, I do agree with you,
Sir.
P a g e | 82

CONCERNED CITIZEN =
Time-out po muna. Isa po uling ama na consumer.
Napakinggan ko po yung sa Facebook kasi nga istorya ko
po kanina, apat po ang anak ko, tatlong professional,
yung isa hindi. May problema po ako. Yung isa ko pong
anak na prepaid, nung nagkaroon po sya ng unlimited
texts, unlimited calls, wala pong kaproblema problema.
Pero nung nagkaroon na po sya ng Facebook at nag-eemail na sya at nag-e-e-load po ako sa kanya, ako pa po
ang sinisisi minsan. Kasi bakit daw po napaaga ang eload ko sa kanya. So, in short, feeling nya nadadaya sya
dun sa unlimited nya na Facebook. Wala pong problema
sa unlimited texts and calls kaya dapat po ma-inote po
ito ng NTC. Kasi pag loloadan ko na po ang anak ko, na
hindi maka-avail ng postpaid, nagkakaproblema na po
sya dahil po dun sa in-open na prepaid na unlimited ang
Facebook at unlimited ang e-mail. Kaya lahat
po nun ay problema ng isang ordinaryong consumer.
Natanong din po ni Senator Bam, hindi ko lang klaro na
narinig, na na-identify din po ng mga Broadband
providers na kung saang area ang may congestion.
Therefore, meron po silang forecast kung saan.
Excepetional po yung may malaking event. Kagaya ko
po, matagal akong nakatira sa Taft malapit sa La Salle
dahil dun po gumraduate ang mga anak ko. Wala pong
problema dun. Now, nung lumipat ako sa Makati sa may
San Antonio na malapit sa business section, na kahit
P a g e | 83


hindi ko po kaya, nag-10mbps po ako. Dun pa po ako
nagkaproblema kahit na fixed line. Kaya siguro ang
maisa-suggest ko for the NTC and Senator Bam,
makapagsalita ang mga providers kung ano talaga yung
improvement na ginagawa nyo ngayon para sa mga
consumers. Kasi po yung truth ang advertising matagal
na pong problema yan I am also a marketer. Kailangan
nyo din po manghikayat. And on the part of the
government kahit malaki po ang inverstment, siguro po
kailangang magkaroon ng National Infrastructure na
sinasabi nga ni Engineer kanina na mag-add tayo ng fiber
optic. Para, katulad sa atin, meron tayong ABS-CBN, GMA
na ngayon po ay may kapatid na po TV5. So, kailangan
po marinig natin sa NTC kung ano po ang maibibigay na
tulong ng gobyerno para po mapalaki yung allocation.
Yun lang po ang gusto ko, maging sincere lang po. Ako
po ay consumer lamang na hindi Techy. Ano po ba
yung ginagawa nyo ngayon para masabing ang mga
provider ay maso-solusyunan yung problema na ito? Kasi
po pag sinabing 80% ito ang ibibigay tapos lumabas
kanina na generalized pa kanina. Nauunawaan po
naming kayo dahil kailangan po required ng NTC yun.
Pero maganda pong iadvertise nyo din. Ano po bang
ginagawa nyo para maimprove? Kasi sa puso po ng mga
gumagamit, na katulad po namin, ay mag-cocomplain sa
NTC. Siguro po araw-araw ang mare-receive nyan 200 of
complaints. Samantala, kung magkakroon po ng
P a g e | 84

Education Simulation People Nation, ang mga

Broadband or service providers like PLDT, Globe, Smart,
kung ano ang ginagawa nila mauunawaan po ng lahat
kahit po ng Senior Citizens. Kasi hindi po
nila naiinitindihan yun. Bilang consumer, ipaalam nyo po
samin. Okay na samin na hindi kayo sa 80% pero what
are you doing in order to improve it kung nafoforecast
nyo pala na may congestion sa isang lugar? Di ba pwede
kayo magbigay ng short buffer? Ok, may malaking event,
nauunawaan namin yun. So,kung nagagawa nyo sa lahat
yun, lalo na sa Hongkong na napakagulo ng wirings.
Pupunta ka sa airport natin medyo madidismaya ka din.
Pero ginagawan po nila ng paraan pero napakahina
naman ng wifi. May isa pong politiko, sabi nya iwa-wifi
ko ang buong probinsya na ito.Ngayon po, tinanong ko
yung isang Techy na ngayon ko lang nakilala, Pwede
ba yun? Sabi nya, depende. Kung magagawa pala yun
edi akong ordinaryong consumer edi lilipat na ko dun.
Wala na ko ganong problema. Bakit hindi gumawa ang
NTC, kausapin ang gobyerno kung ano yung pwedeng
ibigay na pondo. Ang gagaling po ng Pilipino. Taga-sa
amin po sa Cagayan, kung nakikilala nyo po si Prof.
Banatao. Kilala nyo po yun? Hindi po natin pinapansin
yun pero sya po ang kapartner ni Bill Gates dati. Nakadiscover ng isang chip na pinakikinabangan ng buong
bayan. Kaya po maraming magagaling na consultant,
marami pong magagaling na Pilipino. Alam na po natin
P a g e | 85

ang problema pero tulungan na po natin. Ngayon, inuulit

ko, yung service provider sabihin nyo po samin sa
advertisement ninyo na ito na po ang ginagawa namin. In
a manner na maiintindihan ng hindi Techy. Ang alam ko
lang po ay mag-Facebook, Internet at Google. So, yun
lang po. Kaya dapat po talaga suportahan po natin ito.
Ilang taon po ang magdadaan maayos din po natin ito.
Marami pong salamat.
COMMISSIONER =
Maybe we can have last two or last three.
ENGR. SANTIAGO=
I just like to put on record that, to what was mentioned
earlier, the landline providers cannot control the whether.
It was mentioned that we can control the whether in
relation to serving the standard that affects that standard
for landline. Although, probably, the politicians right now
put fiber optics and including the cable system. But there
are still variables to be considered in
setting the standard for the landline. Another point that I
would like to mention is that we are maintaining that the,
with your respect Sir, setting of minimum standard does
not include the efficiency of service. And I think the NTC
should look also to the possibility looking at other policies
that will result to improvement of the efficiency of the
network. We are hoping also that the wireless, Your
Honor, like what studied in other countries, that there are
P a g e | 86

also abusers of Internet and landline. We also want the

efficiency of our networks and for the Commission, of
course, for the fair usage of policy. Maybe there some
relative but eventually, it will be generally adopted. What
is fair depends on usage; maybe a high volume user. But
there will also be a particular threshold for a particcular
volume for a particular usage.
SEN. AQUINO =
Question from the Twitter: How does rain affects the
wired services? Kasi may nakuha po kaming
questions from Twitter and I am trying to answer
most of them. Ito ang hindi ko nasagot and namention nyo naman. Paano po naapektohan ng ulan
yung quality ng service?
ENGR. SIENA =
Grounding. Naga-ground po siguro. May mga
connections po kasi yan e, mga splicing. Minsan
kapag hindi na po maganda yung other probably
instances, hindi naman po lahat. Siguro kapag
bumagyo, yung mahangin, naapektuhan na yung
mga closures, pinapasok na ng tubig.
SEN. AQUINO =
So, kahit ang ulan nakakaapekto sa wire.
P a g e | 87

MR. ACERO =
Opo, nakakaapekto din po yan. Kaya hindi naman po
talaga natin nakokontrol ang bagyo. Kaya po kung
bumagyo po at humangin po ng malakas, lumuluwag
po yung mga closures. Hindi naman po kasi lahat
naka under the ground. Tapos po minsan itong mga
mabibigat, I think as what I have mentioned already
earlier,
(cont.Mr. Acero)
may nagrereklamo sa amin, wala daw Internet nung
umulan. Kasabay pala nung ulan, sabay na ninakaw
yung kable.
SEN. AQUINO =
Iba naman ho yun.
MR. ACERO =
Kaya ang po ang sabi, baka bigla po nating i-measure
ng hindi po namin alam, you measured it, Aba,
walang serbisyo yung area na yun. Paano
magkakaserbisyo e ninakaw na pala ang kable.
Kidding aside your Honor, I think what we are
suggesting is that perhaps we owe to look at the
P a g e | 88

other policies not only focusing on setting the

minimum but look into the policy that will improve
the efficiency of the network.
SEN. AQUINO =
Actually, yung setting the minimum palagay ko the
more important goal is that there is a standard that
consumers, operators, the ISPs we can all agree na
ito yung batayan natin. Kasi hindi din po fair, sabi
nyo, may mga nagco-complain. E baka naman at
that single moment ninakaw po yung kable nya? So I
think it is fair for everyone na may standard talaga
tayo na lahat tayo we agree. Na ito dapat maabot
natin ito, that this
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
is part of our contract with the consumer. Whether it
is percentage up to or percentage of minimum or
kung ano man, I think ang mahalaga is meron
tayong batayan. And that is our first step for moving
forward and I really think it will help the ISPs in the
end because a lot of the complaints, kaya ding
irefute. The NTC, if they have the standard and if
they have the logs and everything, magiging
malinaw na Baka naman by that time ay ninakaw
yung kable pero the rest of the 29 days, makikita
mong maayos naman pala. So that is number 1.
Yung isa naman pong question ko, this is also from
P a g e | 89

twitter, May nag-point out, I think si Mr. Acero nadin

po ito, regarding the fair use policy: can you
distinguish daw between the legal and illegal
activity? Kasi kahit it is a legal activity, pero mataas
yung usage. How is that or agnostic sya? Hindi
nakikita kung ano yung activity?
MR. ACERO =
I-klaro lang po natin Senator? Yun po bang illegal na
naka-tap po sya? Or illegal yung ginagamit nya?
SEN. AQUINO =
Hindi. We are talking about Torrenting diba? But
one of the things mentioned here is what if he legally
purchased the
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
game and then using the game by the developer or
yung nagfe-Facetime ka.
ENGR. SANTIAGO =
Your Honor, kapag po nagsusubscribe ka, para lang
po kayong nagbenta ng kotse, you do not know how
they are going to use the car.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 90

But you know kung gaano kalakas yung milage diba?

That is the fair usage?
MR. ACERO =
Exactly, yun po yung mako-control namin yung
magkano yung per kilometer ng kotse na yan
weather you are going to use that to rob the bank or
ipangki-kidnap mo yan, hindi po namin alam. But all
the more, as I was trying to say kanina, I am glad you
mentioned at least we have to set the standard.
What we were saying is that, ok, we will go with you
as far as the coming and the publicizing of that policy
but not necessarily just focusing on the minimum.
Perhaps, if we look at other policies that will result
into improvement or for
SEN. AQUINO =
development of the industry.
MR. ACERO =
Yes, development of the network, of the sytem. Yan
po ang pino-point out namin.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 91

This is a series of hearings, policy discussions, SVGs,

Forums, meetingssa totoo lang nakakarami na tayo
for 2014. Well, ako I think we are moving
somewhere. I think by the end of the year we have
more good news to be shared to you. But with
regards to many points that Carlos point out, the IP
tearing, the Open Access, the Government-Private
Partnership when it terms to infrastructures, lahat
yan may mga improvement naman. But one of the
concerns talaga is yung consumer protection. And
yun tataga ang pinakapopular siguro na concern
diba? But right now, we are not blaming these people
of who is not right, what we are trying to see is kung
ano ba yung mga standard na we can all move
forward with. Ok, so yung sa Fair Use Policy, maybe
for the bigger TelCos, Globe and Smart, we do not
distinguish kung ano yung activity. It is just really just
yung volume. Maybe if we look into that kasi kung it
is legitimate naman, the usage, mahirap. I am happy
that you do not look intoon the
(cont. Sen. Aquino)
recordyou do not know. Maybe that is something,
we would not solve it today but it is something that
we can look into our list. Kasi in the future, yung
suggestions will get higher and higher diba? Yung
Youtube, HD na ang Youtube ngayon diba?
P a g e | 92

ENGR. SANTIAGO =
On the contrary, actually, as an Engineer, the TelCos
or the technical people knows or has the facility to do
it actually. There being cases in the late 90s, I just
graduated from my engineering course then, it was
Eastern Telecoms, a lot of young engineers are
becoming millionaires because they are using this
line and they are offering lower cost in the
international cost international calls. They were
radiant because there is a pattern of data that tells
you that this guy is watching the video or using
Skype. As an engineer, we can do all of these things.
We can even pinpoint your exact location when you
are using your mobile phone. But you need a court
order for the TelCos to divulge these informations.
Before po kasi walang ganun e. Nung wala pa pong
batas tungkol dyan, pag nag-aaway po yung magboyfriend at girlfriend, or mag-asawa, ipapatrace ng
asawa yung exact location nung asawa nya, the
engineers can do that. Now having said that, when it
comes to complying
(cont. Engr. Santiago)
with the minimum spec or speed, the engineers will
always have a solution to do that. I guess the
challenge will be not the technical but more of the
investment that the telco has to pour in to satisfy the
requirement. Each cell sites Sir, has a specific
P a g e | 93

channel capacity. Let us say this site can support one

thousand (1000) subscribers, we know that because
we prepared that during the feasibility study. We
makes study for the year in preparation for this
certain area. We need to put 1000 channels here to
support the subscribers. And then we go now to the
over subscription statement a while ago, what if you
sold upto 5000 in this area? Then definitely those
5000 will be competing for the 1000. Users drop
pagdating sa gabi kasi tulog na yung mga tao. That is
why it is faster to download during night. When it
comes to downloading, actually it is even better if
you can have faster speed kasi it would not take that
person lesser amount of time to get what he wants
and to finish his job and then it is off, rather than
staying there and they having been classified as an
abusive user. I mean, I do not think the term exist
because you are a subscriber, you are just using the
service based on what you paid. So the technical
standpoint Sir is, we can solve it or most engineers
can really solve it. It is just that how much the Telco
will be able to invest.
MR. MOLINA =
Sir, in fact the ratios for the Internet speed, of
course, we will have the capacity to invest for a
measuring or testing tool because right now like
P a g e | 94

most of us are using Ookla. And for us technical

people, we know that it is not really that reliable
because the data that you get from Ookla really
depends on where you are when you are testing the
server or the said network or sometimes of the day
or the time that you took the test from another test.
Sometimes, also, I think it is good also that they are
aware of the user experience that we should provide
the public because most of the complaints that we
hear like dito sa katabi kokasi like going to various
airport like sa Hongkong and Singapore, pagdating
palang sa airport At that time you will realize in
those states, which they have spent and obliged 24
billion dollars to of their National Infrastructure. So
siguro we are looking for years when we will invest,
siguro same amount for the National Infrastructure
where all players can tuck in to structure and
empower network, cellular network to improve the
user experience of the public.
COMMISSIONER =
Siguro po mga last three (3).
MR. NACERNA =
P a g e | 95

So I think it all came verge down to the infrastructure, so I

think we need the TelCos soon to invest in proper
infrastructure. Also, we need to support the local Internet
exchange. Kailangan na natin ng local Internet exchange.
Kasi yun nga po katulad ng sinabi ni Sir Francis merong
barrier kasi kapag ISTP toISTP lang din. Actually, ang
nangyayari, we have tested something, pin lang, it is a pin
test, and the latency or the time when it take up to gather
person is from, pag ginamit mo ay SPA to ISPA, sabihin
natin 36 millisecond lang, ganun kabilis. Pero if ISTP na, it
takes about 239 seconds that is so slow. That is very slow.
Also we did took the specified although yung speed kasi
like may latency, gaano ba kabalis yung megabytes per
second. We need to do it in a laymans term. That is for the
consumers protection nadin. Kasi hindi nga maintindihan
kung Ano ba ito? MBps is that the top speed? What is it?
Yes, the Mbps, actually sometimes, when the advertised
speed is let us say 1 Mbps, we get 56kbps. There is an
issue that time na nangyari nga yun. Again we have to go
to our infrastructure; I think we need to invest on the
infrastructure. Also opening the Internal Exchange kasi
dapat po talaga we have more localized data kasi mahirap
mag-round trip ka pa from point A to point B para lang
makapagsend ka ng text file.
MS. SORIA =
P a g e | 96

I am Ms. Cecille Rosaria from Democracy.Net.Ph, first of

all Sir, we did not have the access to all of the position
papers and the
(cont. Ms. Soria)
recommendations that were given by everyone who
attended here so we would appreciate a commitment
from the NTC to have everything posted sa website so we
can make our comments and we can also countercheck
or you know review yung mga ibang claims that were
made by all of the groups that were here. Secondly, I am
not a technical person, I am a lawyer, but I am an
Internet user and I am just bothered by all of the claims
here that there is no way that we can know how bad
bandwidth and Internet speed is served in the particular
area. This is not religion, it is science and math, and if
you can not determine those things, how can you do you
business? How can you determine what type of tools
should be invested and what equipment to buy? How can
we then buy your stocks because we know that you will
be profitable in the future? Are you telling us that you are
all living it up to God? This is my third point, the concept
of unlimited service did not come from the subscribers.
The concept of unlimited service came from the TelCos. If
you remember, it all started dial-up pa tayo. Nagpeprepaid card para makakuha ng Internet connection. So
we are living our innocent and non-techy lives na
satisfied with you know getting the minimum connection
for the price that we pay. And then you told us, Hey you
P a g e | 97

can get Internet connection for unlimited time. So kami

naman, bumili kami and now you are telling us na first of
all it is not unlimited, and second of all you can not
assure us that the speed that we are buying even for
10% of the time. I mean that is just really
(cont. Ms. Soria)
impossible. But anyway, thank you to Senator Bam for
doing this. Thank you to NTC for inviting us but we would
also like to get a more concrete result from this and hope
for the NTC would release the memorandum circular on
early part of next year. I will stress it is very important for
the TelCos to invest for a good Internet connection
because from 2016, we will have another election. And
we want that election to be fair, to be credible and we
can only get that, with the system that we have, with a
good Internet connection all over the country.
COMMISSIONER=
Dagdag ko lamang po ano, we were mentioning ang ating

mga suggestions and comments, it will be very helpful to
us if you are recording everything and taking down minutes
but you can also submit your position papers.
MS. SORIA =
We already submitted our position paper, in fact we had
submitted with the draft of memorandum order.
P a g e | 98

COMMISSIONER =
No what I am trying to say is that it is just a letter. Kasi I
understand that you also submitted it to the office of the
Senator Bam.
MS. SORIA =
Yes but we also submitted it to the NTC.
COMMISSIONER =
Okay, that would really be a big help. Siguro last two. Si
Mr. Acero.
MR. ACERO =
Sir, siguro as a final statement, kasi diba a while ago it
was mentioned kung ano yung pwedeng gawing
measures para ma-align itong present situation? Well,
maybe, if the ISP circle, those are not using the resources
allocated to them ang nangyayari maybe they can be
stripped off their licence of frequency and they will
reallocate it to other who can serve in that areas better.
Maybe the NTC, Congress, Senate, DTI, and DOJ can
make that. So what we do here is once we outline the
measures ng MO or whatever needs to be drafted, also to
put a timeline and a deadline kung kailan dapat
macomply. And if that is not met start looking to
reallocating licences really. Thank you.
MR. ESPIRITU =
P a g e | 99

Last two points na lang po. Una po, ang PCTO or

Philippine Chamber Telecom Operators, we would like to
thank the god senator, Sen. Bam, and for the Commission
for giving us the opportunity to be here. And second point
na lang po, medyo aside na lang po ito, nabanggit po
kasi yung data privacy issue po kanina.
(cont. Mr. Espiritu)
Yung Data Privacy po, two years na po sya pero hindi pa
po naco-consitute?
COMMISSIONER =
Okay. Thank you so much Senator Bam Aquino and to
everyone. Thank you.
Prepared by:
Ms. Elizabeth G. Lamadrid

Salilin
Ms. Ailene. G.
P a g e | 100


Public Hearing With Sen Bam Aquino 1 - 11.7.14

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P a g e |1

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES

NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

PUBLIC HEARING ON THE MEMORANDUM ORDER NO. 0707-2011

OF THE STENOGRAPHIC NOTES TAKEN DURING THE PUBLIC

Commissioner Carlo Jose Martinez is here with us. So,

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

yun po ang binabantayan tsaka yun pong coverage,

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

why we are here today is: if we increase the speed

nagpasimula nitong ating pong ginagawa na ito. His

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

level agreements. The minimum service reliability

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

actually, you can send text at meron din pong video

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

association. So, this is their position papers. And then

Magandang Hapon sa inyong lahat mga

opisyales. Nandito po tayo para hindi naman masabi

nalang ang nang-

iimbita sa Senado when they have hearings. I stated

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

come to an actual policy, change or recommendation

Memorandum Order. We also like to hear from the

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

rin ang tingin nila sa mga topics na ito. Now, one

MR. MON ESPIRITU =

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

I am Mon Espiritu. I am here for the Public Affairs of

MR. CARLOS NARCENA =

MR. BONG MOLINA =

ATTY ROY IBAY =

MR. ERIC DELOS REYES =

ENGR JAMES SANTIAGO =

MR. PATRICK CHEN =

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

Patrick Chen, DTV Pilipinas.

MR. ANTON ALCANTARA =

MR. ARMAND URSAL =

MR. RICH MONIEGO =

MR. ARCHIE ATIENZA =

MR. BOBBY AQUINO =

MS. CARRIE BUENAFE =

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

Carrie Buenafe from Huawei Philippines.

Employment Units, we are starting to draft different

baseline for what the bond with the consumer with

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

consumers side. We can see bundles of Internet for a

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

(cont. Mr. Ursal)

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

kung maganda yung signal captivity mo, it varies.

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

namin pag nag-speed test kami, we are the last,

binayaran mo na package or bundle sa Internet.

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

Thank you very much. Just a follow-up question, ang

MR. DELOS REYES =

(cont. Mr. Delos Reyes)

Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011

therefore, it should not be regulated. Then what is