Vous êtes sur la page 1sur 59

REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES

NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION


Quezon City
-----------------------------------

2nd PUBLIC HEARING ON THE MEMORANDUM ORDER NO.


07-07-2011
RE: MINIMUM SPEED OF BROADBAND CONNECTIONS
---------------------------------------------------------TRANSCRIPT

OF THE STENOGRAPHIC NOTES TAKEN DURING THE


PUBLIC HEARING ON FEBRUARY 16, 2015 AT 9:57 IN THE
MORNING, BEFORE ALL CONCERNED OFFICIALS AND
REPRESENTATIVE OF DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT
AGENCIES ON THE MEMORANDUM ORDER NO. 07-072011
RE: MINIMUM SPEED OF BROADBAND CONNECTIONS
-----------------------------------------------------------

COMMISSIONER =

Welcome to NTC for our second public


hearing on this item. Thank you very much
to Senator Bam Aquino for visiting us again
and for assisting us in this issuance of the
proposed
Memorandum
Circular
in
Minimum Speed for Broadband Connection.
Now, our timeline Mr. Senator, is to be able
to issue this within March because we will

P a g e |2

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

need time to be able to buy the equipment


by June or July so we can roll-out.
(cont.Commissioner)
And before that, Senator Bam would give
us some welcome message.
SEN. AQUINO =
Good morning to all our friends in NTC and of
course to all the resource speakers. As I
mentioned in the previous hearing, I will be just
an observer here. And we would just like to
make sure that our hearings in the Senate and
the hearings here ay hindi naman po
nagkakalayo and that we are really on top of
everything and well coordinated with all the
agencies and the private sector. Again our only
goal here is that we have to have a policy that
will be fair to our consumers and to our
constituents and this Memorandum Circular for
minimum speed I think is just one of the main
steps we need to under go to ensure a better
internet infrastructure for our people. But
definitely, if we could come out with this and
empower our consumers to also not feel so
powerless
when
it
comes
to
service
interruptions or low quality of service that they
come across, to empower them with a tool or
with better coordination with the government
agencies. I think it will go a long way as we work
towards producing better internet infrastructure
in our country. We all know that our over-all goal
probably would not happen in a few months. It
will take maybe a year or even more to really
have the best infrastructure in the Philippines to
service our constituents. But in the mean time,
let us make sure that our people do not feel
powerless with what is happening and as we
also know now that a lot of young people spend

P a g e |3

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

a lot of their money on load and internet so we


also want to make sure that our countrymen
who are spending their hard-earned money in
very essential product or service really get what
is due to them. We have fair
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
regime for everyone, for the private sector, the
constituents and of course the government
agencies serving as the great arbiter of all these
things. So again, I would like to thank
Commissioner Gamaliel and the rest of the
Deputy Commissioners and the NTC for having
us again here. Thank you and we look forward to
this hearing.

COMMISSIONER =
Thank you very much Sir. We have here Deputy
Commissioner Deles and Deputy Commissioner
Martinez. We also have Director Egay Cabarios
from Regulation Branch. Maybe we can start by
introducing our selves.
MR. YU =
Good morning Senator, Commissioners and
everyone. I am Winthrop Yu from Internet
Society Philippine Chapter.

MR. CALRDERON =

P a g e |4

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Good morning Senator and Commissioners, I am


Ronald Calderon from Department of Trade
Industry Consumer Protection Group.

ATTY. IBAY =
Good morning your Honors, Atty. Roy Ibay from
the PLDT Group.
ATTY. LIM =
Good morning Mr. Senator and Commissioners,
good morning everybody. Derek Lim of Globe
Telecom.
MR. ACERO =
Good morning Commissioners and Senator,
Francis Acero from Democracy.net.ph.
MS. SANTOS =

Good
morning
Senator,
good
morning
Commissioners,
Mary
Grace
Santos,
Independent Researcher and Research Fellow of
Learn Asia.
MR. LOGOC =

P a g e |5

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Hi! Good morning! Mon Logoc from the Office for


Competition from DOJ.
MR. RAPADAS =
Good morning, I am Don Rapadas from UP
MassCom and from the Philippine Apple Users
Group.
COMMISSIONER =
So welcome here in our office. Sir, I will be
turning over the chair to Director Edgardo
Cabarios who has studied the technical aspects
of this memorandum circular. He will be
conducting the hearing and because I will be
also having my own questions and clarifications.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Thank you so much Sir. We have circulated the
draft MC and the explanatory note explaining
the draft MC. We have so far received six (6)
comments from six (6) individuals and entities.
From Democracy.Net, Democracy.Net submitted
draft MC consisting of eleven (11) sets of rules.
LIRNasia through Ms. Mary Grace Santos, has
recommended several points. On service
reliability, she said that it should be
differentiated between fixed and mobile, on
latency and on benchmark, etc. PAPTELCO is of
its opinion that there is no need for the MC
because it is a value-added service. Carlos
Nazareno has suggested of the minimum target
latencies. PLDT has the opinion that NTC should
be the one to prescribe the download speed,
upload speed, reliability and availability and
suggested that test should be conducted taking

P a g e |6

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

into the consideration the uncontrollable


variables, those not within the control of the
TelCos. And we have also received a comment
from Globe Telecoms, who of course commented
on the draft MC. Globe is seeking clarification
based on the 50% alleging the current
international practice for minimum actual
downstream and upstream data rates is
anywhere between 10% to 30% of advertised
Up to data rates.
(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
Considering all of these comments, we have
adopted or used as working draft the draft
submitted by Democracy.net.ph. It should
however not to be construed as the position of
the Commission at this time. The draft MC, we
have deleted the rules on data capping and fairuse policy in view of the advisory number 2
released by the Department of Justice advising
that TelCo should refrain from offering unlimited
services if the intention is not really to offer
unlimited services. Rules for refund and rebate
has been modified because refund and rebate
should only be imposed on non-service
availability. Non-compliance to minimum service
performance is a replacement of the rules and
should be if proven to be violated, sanctions
pursuant to law should be imposed. On the
request for service standards adjustment, I think
we should not allow service adjustments once
the minimum service performance standard is
prescribed, then there should be no service
standards
adjustment
anymore.
On
the
transparency and compliance, the results of the
test shall be published in the NTC website and
release to public and media upon request. So on
the draft MC, all definition of terms, we may of
course seek the consensus on the definition of
terms. The rules and regulations will also seek

P a g e |7

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

consensus on that one. The parameter is to be


measure; there are three (3) proposals here.
Proposal to measure data rate reliability, service
reliability and over-all reliability and the
suggested minimum standard of PRR is SR is
80% and OR is also 80%. A close look on this
requirement will show that for you to define the
80% minimum for Over-all Reliability, you must
have at least 90% PRR and 90% SR. If you have
100% SR, the PRR can go to not less than 80%.
So the requirement seems to be very tough this
time but we have to get concensus on this one.
The other thing that we should get consensus
on is whether or not we have to
(cont.Dir.Cabarios)
prescribe minimum standard for mobile. If we
have to prescribe standard to mobile but what
those standards should be? And then one of the
suggestions here is that the NTC shall perform
test measurements. As suggested, the software
that would be used for this test may be made
available so that the consumers or users can
download it and verify it by them selves. The
official
results
would
come
from
the
Commission. And the period of measurement is
not daily but monthly. Results will be released
on or before the fifth day from the last day of
the month. Of course, the suggestion of Globe
and PLDT that the measurement should take
into consideration the uncontrollable variables
those within the control of the consumers or
users. So this in effect, is this one perhaps we
can open discussions on the draft MC now.
MR. ACERO =
May we start first with what was excluded,
regarding to Globe that data volume capping is
not just limited to unlimited offers. Experince in

P a g e |8

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

International, especially in the United States so


that data volume capping can happen even
without this unlimited offers, at least this
condition. So we would like to request the
Commission to reconsider its exclusion just to
serve as guide for the future data cappling
scenario. Because as our infrastructure becomes
better, we become more and more dependent
on the services. We expect that from some point
that if the CapEx is not sufficient to give up with
that merging of its conditional convergent then
we will bump into this problem again.

SEN. AQUINO =
May I ask what your actual suggestion is?
MR. ACERO =
To put on some provisional data capping. From
what I understand, data capping provisions were
taken out because DOJ puts on Circular on
advertising. What I am saying is kasi I think,
from what Director Egay was saying here is
because it is already in the DOJ circular. But,
correct me if I am wrong, DOJ circular is more on
the advertisements. So what we are saying is
guidelines for data volume capping is not just
with regards to advertisements.
SEN. AQUINO =
Actually, if I may share, my brother was a
classmate of Commissioner Cordoba, who lives

P a g e |9

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

in Jakarta, they do not have unlimited offers


there. What they have is speed dependent on
speed which has the corresponding data act. So
the highest speed for the first, for example is 2
GB. And then a lower speed after that is 7GB
and after say a really large number of 10GB for
month they go to GPRS levels. And that is
openly stated in their contract with the TelCo. So
more or less that is data capping; that is a fair
use policy which says of what is clearly stated
and with guidelines and what you are saying is
NTC should have a guideline on that not just on
the advertisement but on general.

MR. ACERO =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
But to the specific guidelines, you do not have
suggestions yet?

MR. ACERO =
We do, it is on our draft MC.
MS. SANTOS =
Good morning everyone. Again, I am Ms. Mary
Grace Santos. I am here as a research fellow of

P a g e | 10

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

LIRN Asia. We submitted our position to the NTC


regarding the MC. Unfortunately I read the
revised MC just today so I have some quick
comments. There are some, I think, things that
Director Egay mentioned that were not in the
MC. But I think the NTC is considering some
measures in terms of Consumer Centric
Initiatives that is very important because I think
I speak for everyone here that the main reason
that we have such MC is so that the consumers
will be protected and will get what they paid for.
So just a few comments, while the MC provides
that the consumers will be informed of the
internet service that will be offered to them, I
noticed that it make no mention of how the
consumers can determine or prove for
themselves that the quality of the internet
service connection that they actually get than
they actually receive is substandard compared
to
(cont.Ms.Santos)
what is in the standard set by the NTC. In short,
I think there seems to be no room for consumer
participation and feedback based on the revised
MC that I just read. To iritirate LIRNasias
position while we maintain that it is the
regulator that is mandated to assure and
monitor the standard of internet service, we
iritirate that consumers education is very
important and because it is the only way that
consumers
can
hold
the
operator
as
accountable for the service that they are paying
for. Ideally, mechanism to run the diagnostics
will be provided to the public. You mentioned
this in your statement earlier but I do not see it
in the MC. So ideally, the diagnostics tool will be
provided to the consumers maybe through
software or web page mechanism so that they
can also contribute to the collection of
broadband quality. I think this model is being
done in other countries wherein consumers will

P a g e | 11

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

participate in providing data but the results of


the measurement being done by the regulators
are the one considered as official result. Number
two (2) comment, the MC also mentioned that
the NTC should be the one to determine the
official data rate. Shall be the one to determine
the monitoring tool and also it will be the one to
conduct the measurement itself. However, the
MC, it think, failed to mention the methodology.
LIRNasias position that is submitted was very
particular about the importance of the
methodology because we want to make sure
that we have a large data set enough to
determine the average of result because as we
all know measuring quality of service this very
location specific, time specific, and time
sensitive, and only depends on the conditions of
where the subscriber is when the test is being
done. So for example the methodology is to
include the number of times, multiple times the
measurement it will be done. And you said it is
five (5) times a month. We want to know how
would determine this five (5) times. Wether
(cont.Ms.Santos)
this would also include the peak hours of each
hours. Weekends and weekdays because
measurement really depends on those. Also,
you mentioned something about publishing the
results, the MC said via website, but you also
mentioned, Dir. Egay, that copies of the results
will be provided to all consumers upon request.
We suggest that results be provided in all forms
in different formats. Not by request but by
probably, the NTC can consider just publishing
the results without having to wait for requests.
Also how can the consumers use the results to
make informed decisions at the end of the day?
So I hope that the results will be in a format that
the consumers can digest and can easily
understand. I mean, in terms of what is the
implication if they see that the NTCs

P a g e | 12

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

measurement for example is this and that? Or


the service reliability is X. So how will that be
relevant to the consumers? So if I am a student,
trying to choose between three mobile
broadband, how will those results help me in
ensuring that this is probably the best plan for
me or this is probably the best ISP for me.
Lastly, may I reiterate the need also to look at
other critical matrix. In the Philippines, for
example, I think it is important to look at the
latency. Because latency, as everyone in this
room would know, measures how long a packet
takes to reach the destinations recur and
returns to the client. And this is very important
for browsing and I think all internet users we all
do browsing. In fact, if you look at the general
use of mobile broadband in line of the free data,
free internet services, all of those things are
dependent on browsing. And also, sorry I said
finally but this is my last point, may I also
suggest that the NTC, I do not know if this can
be required, but I guess request the service
providers if not require them to measure and
publish their typical average speed for plan. This
can be done per location actually, in a city for
example, would it be possible for PLDT, Globe,
and
(cont.Ms.Santos)
Sun to publish what their typical average speed
is per particular location. Again, this is for the
purpose of the goal of informing the consumers
on how to make their decisions in buying
particular service. Thank you.
SEN. AQUINO =
I may respond, or I may add? I may add to the
last point, that was also one of the things we
talked about in the hearing that if every area we

P a g e | 13

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

could actually say or tell what the average


speed is in the particular area because for
business owners and for those who wants to
invest,
mahalagang
mahalaga
ang
impormayong iyon. And it also supports TelCos
do what for the infrastructure in those areas
kung mabagal talaga yung published rate doon
and there is also political pressure on the side of
Local Government Unit kung wala pong ganito,
they will put up more infrastructure. So I would
really support that in every area we do have a
published rate or yung published speed. Kung
ano yung parang critical average speed of each
of the TelCos in mobile broadband in a particular
area. Maybe in the next couple of years, it is a
determiner if you want to live in that city or not
kung mabilis o mabagal yung internet sa lugar
na yon. But on that note, the testing that we
will do or that we are plan to do before we doing
it monthly, will that disaggregate per area kung
ano yung speed? Does our equipment have that
capability to be able to say for this particular
period, ito yung average speed in this particular
area or is that national average or with in Metro
Manila speed?

DIR. CABARIOS =
Thank you very much Sir. It would be Metro
Manila average speed. If there is a need to,
because when you conduct test, it should not be
known to the TelCos where the test will be
conducted. So if you do it Metro Manila wide,
then the result will be Metro Manila wide. Of
course it can also be done per area, but it
should not be known as I have said by the
TelCos.

P a g e | 14

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

SEN. AQUINO =
Engineer, is that software based tool or is that a
hardware based tool? Meaning, are we
physically transporting something or there will
be a software that we can use in our
telephones/mobile phones or computer?
DIR. CABARIOS =
The plan Sir is to purchase a monitoring
equipment together with the software. So I think
what shall be done is to make known to the
supplier the software is to be owned by the
Commission and should be open to the public to
download the software.
SEN. AQUINO =
So it is hardware and software?

DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir. Hardware and software.
SEN. AQUINO =
Yes. But the software is downloadable to the
public, for example, I am currently in Davao, I
could check it using the information that goes

P a g e | 15

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

through the hardware or is the hardware needed


to be on the same location that is being tested?
DIR. CABARIOS =
We shall make it a point that in the TOR the
software should not have a specific position.
SEN. AQUINO =
So you can test anywhere?
DIR. CABARIOS =
It will be included in TOR you can test anywhere.
SEN. AQUINO =
And the hardware does not need to be in the
area where the testing is? It can be based here
in the headquarters?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So at least, to clarify it is not only for Metro
Manila figures. As long as you are testing in the
particular location, you can get the information.

P a g e | 16

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

The question is who will conduct the test or who


will initiate the testing?

DIR. CABARIOS =
The Commission will do the test and make the
official test agency we will be publishing the
official results.
SEN. AQUINO =
And does the NTC have the satellite offices? I
am not familiar yet, Regional offices Provincial
Offices?
DIR. CABARIOS =
We have fifteen (15) regional offices.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok. So at the minimum there are 15 provinces of
15 cities that you can test without any further
support.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =

P a g e | 17

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

But you can also deploy some of your personnel


in other provinces to check. Is that possible?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok so their concern is that it is not necessary
that monthly sa NCR, this is monthly, once a
month lang ang test but it will done in multiple
areas?

DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes the test can be done daily but the result
average will be on monthly basis.
SEN. AQUINO =
So it will not be tested once a month, so if
across the perioed but will just publish it once a
month.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir. Because the more data gathered the
better. You can get more accurate result.
SEN. AQUINO =

P a g e | 18

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

That is right. And probably the mathematics


says that you need a larger data set to be fair to
the service providers. Tama ano Sir?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So I think the question lang now is if we will
allow the consumers a users interface so they
can also do testing on their own.
I would
support that because people want to know what
speed they are getting. I would also like to
suggest if you want to make a part of the
process and DTI is here, may be we would make
the first step, check muna kung ano yung dun
sa App ng NTC kung ano yung nakukuha mong
speed and if it is below a certain level, I think it
would be 1Mbps in broadband so if it is below 1,
that can be like a recursor to file a complaint.
But if it does not fall below that number, then, it
can be like the first step. Para meron ding
consumer participation. That is the first thing to
do. If you feel na mabagal, you go to the app,
check the speed and that determines right away
kung actionable or not. Siguro, if I may just add
a reflection like we were saying, kung absolutely
walang service, that is the
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
time where the consumer can get a refund. But
if that is just a slow-service, fine from NTC. How
could it be determined? Yung no service tska
slow-service.

P a g e | 19

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

DIR. CABARIOS =
Yung no service, normally subscribers complain
no service and we can of course verify it if there
is really no service. And pursuant to General
Order Number 1 of the then Public Service
Commission, if the service is not available for at
least 24 hours, it is subject to rebate.
SEN. AQUINO =
And meron pong reasonability test naman po
iyon diba? Kung nasa basement level ka ng
under ground parking tapos doon ka nagtetest,
hindi naman fair yun diba?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So there is a reasonability test. So when
somebody
complains,
that
investigation
becomes part of the process. Kung saan ka ba
nagtest. Was that a reasonable place, etc. Then
if talagang walang service in an open area na
dapat meron ng right to ask for a refund. Pero
kung may complain regarding mas mababa
doon sa published speed for example, what
would be the process there?
DIR. CABARIOS =

P a g e | 20

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

I think the process, Sir, is there is a violation, so


case will be filed against the TelCo. And the local
process will proceed so if found to have violated
with the rules, then sanctions will be imposed.
SEN. AQUINO=
Then that would mean over a period of time?
Tama po diba? Kasi papasok pa yun sa 80% or
50% reliability. So meaning, ok na. So for
example, 10:37 Quezon City, mabagal. Then I
called the hotline, mabagal, merong problema.
Chineck yung app ninyo, and ayun cheneck
mabagal nga sya. So it take forms part of your
data set to determine kung dapat ngang i-fine
yung TelCo or hindi. Tama po ba yun? Kasi hindi
naman magpa-fine yung TelCo based on one (1)
consumer complaint, right?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir. It will be based on the test also
conducted by the NTC.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok. So at the end of the day, complaints just
add to the evidence if there is an evidence na
for that particular period, hindi pumasok sa
service reliability and sa other factors, tama po?
So you cannot find this, correct me if I am
wrong, with this set-up, you cannot fine based
on one (1) complain.
DIR. CABARIOS =

P a g e | 21

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Yes your Honor. There should be investigation.


SEN. AQUINO =
So there should be the aggregated data of the
NTC that will determine if for a period, that was
monthly, there is a violation in the services.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
But then, if that happens, PhP200.00 lang yun.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir. PhP200.00 per day.
SEN. AQUINO =
So if a TelCo is not following the service
reliability aT most we can fine them
PhP2,400.00 a year.

DIR. CABARIOS =

P a g e | 22

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Yes Sir. But ofcourse, we can cancel the


authority or suspend. But suspending may also
affect the consumers.
SEN. AQUINO =
So is that PhP200.00 per consumer or per data
set that you determine?
DIR. CABARIOS =
There is a question Sir whether it is per user
basis because it is not yet clear as to whether
the case is imposed per user or any violation in
the terms and conditions of any rules of the
Commission, they are subject to PhP200.00
maximum fine until they comply with the rules.
SEN. AQUINO =
So that is clear. Maybe what I can suggest is
that more than the penalty kasi at the end of
the day, sabi nga ninyo baka PhP2,400.00 per
year lang ang pwedeng ipenalize, even though I
have to admit that because this is something
that we have to look at at the legislation, how to
update this. I think publishing which of the
service providers are fulfilling the service
reliability is probably more important. Because if
published po yan, TelCo X, sumusunod sa
service reliability, they are hitting 90% of the
published speed and that all of their
adverstisement pasok na pasok yung speed nila
within reasonable means. In fact, we do not ask
100% Grace
(cont.Sen.Aquino)

P a g e | 23

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

was even mentioning 50% which I honestly I


think is low but 80% pumapasok sya, that I think
is the best thing that we can do. Because then,
consumers will know kung sino talaga ang
sumusunod sa kanilang advertisements. And
then they will decide. And we will give the
choice to the consumers to be able to go to the
TelCos or Internet Service Providers who are
really able to fulfill their advertisements. And I
am sure TelCos also want to fulfill their advertise
rates. So that publishing is very important Sir.
Maybe on a daily basis pa nga ano yung result
then its average per month, the average is the
official. I think that is very important and if the
Circular will at least have that mechanism I
think it will really be important to our consumers
because it gives them a sense of power. So that
is my suggestion.
Now with regard to the
penalties, whether it is per user or not, I think
that is something we can take up to into the
future hearings. Can I get the opinion of the OFC
here on the matter? Kasi you have also come up
with the Memorandum Circular.
MR. LOGOC =
What the Office of the Competition what we are
protecting in the mandate within DOJ, we are
the Office of the Competition so we are
protecting the fair competition. So ang habol
lang namin is meron na kasing Consumer Act
and we as the OFC wants to make sure that
whatever you advertise, yun yung maeenjoy ng
consumers. That is the position of OFC. TelCos
can write to us, we can talk, we are on the
advisory.

P a g e | 24

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

SEN. AQUINO =
So far, looks like both DOJ and DTI are on the
consumer protection angle.
So I would even
suggest to the Commissioner about the MC,
even want to copy some of the parts of the
Consumer Act for example handle consumer
complaints, is that right Sir. Calderon?
MR. CALDERON =
Yes Sir.

SEN. AQUINO =
You can even quote parts of the Consumer Act,
you can even quote parts of the DOJ opinion in
the MC para at least nagkakasundo yung mga
agencies regarding what exactly we can do. And
at a separate document, you can even suggest
regarding your legislative amendments or
changes in the law to support the memorandum
circular even better. And that can go to us and
we can be the one to tackle that in our hearing.
Sorry for taking long on that matter.
COMMISSIONER =
You mentioned a while ago about the publication
of the results of the surveys and study. Actually
Sir, aside from the penalty, what is more
important would be the obligation because the
TelCos are rated I think on the stock market here

P a g e | 25

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

and on abroad. And some investors are not here


so what they base their investements on
(cont.Commissioner)
will be the data that they publish. So actually,
the share prices of the corporations are either
enhanced or hurt by the issuance of studies or
the service appraisal. So that is a bigger penalty
than that penalty which they are imposed on a
daily rate.
SEN. AQUINO =
I agree. So I think in the last hearing NTC should
have an equipment? But you have your own
monitoring per area? Right? Would you be
willing to publish yours so that it will be fair. You
can publish side by side with the NTC on what
your speed is. Your own internal monitoring that
would also be fair to you also so that if you want
to challenge them for information, maliwanag
din kung ano yung published speed ninyo.
ATTY. IBAY =
Good morning. Mr. Chair, we actually appreciate
all the questions raised by our Honorable good
Senator. In fact, most of his questions referred
to our position paper, the PLDT Groups position
paper which has been submitted which actually
outlined the methodology and parameters that
the PLDT Group would like to supplement as
regards the existing Memorandum 7-7-2011. So
we support the questions and we feel that if
only the Commission included in the working
draft our recommendations, then probably the
Senator would have appreciate the parameters
and the methodology which the PLDT Group
conduct the test as to the broadband speed. Our

P a g e | 26

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

only reservation Mr. Chair is that the working


draft is actually parang over-kill kasi hindi pa
naman
po
nai-establish
yung
original
memorandum order as kulang or
(cont.Atty.Ibay)
defective or inadequate in the sense na hindi pa
nga po sya actually nate-test, hindi pa naiimplement fully because as admitted by this
Honorable Commission, wala pa po naman
syang equipment na napu-purchase. So we feel
na i-test lang po muna natin yung existing
memorandum order. And only after probable the
NTC conducted the test to verify kung ano ang
status ng broadband dito sa Pilipinas, then we
can move forward in terms of probably thinking
kung ano po yung dapat pong ma-improve or
ma-enhance. And that is the reason why our
objective when the NTC published the first
notice of hearing when they asked what are the
parameters to be measured, methods and
period of measurement, who should conduct the
measurement, in case of disputes mediation,
process
mediation
and
arbitration.
We
submitted concretely measures which are
outlined by the good Senators questioning.
Meaning fast tracks talaga paano ba natin ikkoconduct tong mga test na ito and measurement
na ito. Because, if you will recall last time, natrigger lang po lahat ng ito because of tests
made by foreign service provider which is
Acamai and Ookla. Which I do not know if the
NTC will give judicial credence too yung ganung
mga tests. Kasi we feel na on our side, as
service providers, hindi naman yata parang
tama yun. If ever we should be measured, we
should be measured officially by the regulator.
And only after concrete measurement and
evidence and analysis kung ano po yung
parameters na ilalabas ng NTC and after only
the results have come up, then we should all sit
down and talk about ano yung kailangang

P a g e | 27

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

baguhin dito sa 7-7-2011. We submit that as it


is, adequate na po sya e. Because if you recall
again, our reservation from the very beginning
from 7-7-2011 is being deliberated is that
internet is not fast. But then we subscribed and
we allow and we cooperated with the regulator
to come up with 7-7-2011 and then furthermore,
now, we are
(cont.Atty.Ibay)
talking about anong methodology kung paano
iko-conduct yung measurement. When and if
the equipment of the NTC will coming. And here
comes a working draft na medyo over-kill. Kung
baga Value-Added Service sya pero kung
titingnan nyo yung proposed regulations doon
sa working draft, mas malala pa sa kung paano
nya iregulate yung basic service. So yun lang
po. I mean, due process lang po sana before
even move towards discussing other points,
then we should first conduct the test para
malaman natin kung ano po talagang state of
broadband dito po sa ating bansa.
SEN. AQUINO =
What part yung over-kill Attorney? Just to be
clear lang, I mean what exactly is the over-kill
part?
ATTY. IBAY =
Una po, yung standards po, the ITU actually
prescribes only definition of a broadband as
256kbps sa definition po dito, nakikita naman
po ninyo, 768kbps na po sya. And so on and so
forth in line with the definition.

P a g e | 28

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

SEN. AQUINO =
So what you are pointing out is the stated
minimums already of the NTC that is what you
are pointing out as over-kill?

ATTY. IBAY =
Opo. And yung sa rules and measurements and
matrix. Pinadami pa po nila. Ok na po sana yung
sa service reliability na nilagay po ng NTC sa 77-2011 nagkaroon pa po ng iba-iba pa pong
measurement and matrix when in fact ang
position po namin was that we discussed there
the nature of the broadband ecosystem and we
discussed in details the parameters to be
tested. Largely, we feel that yung tests should
be conducted upto the point where yun pong
variables ay nako-control because outside
certain variables, outside certain points where
the internet is being distributed already is
already beyond the scope of what the service
provider can guarantee. For example, hindi po
ako engineer, pero pag nagpasok ng DSL sa
isang bahay, normally pag nagpagawa ka ng
bahay, kayo na ang magwa-wiring sa loob ng
bahay nyo, hindi naman po yung PLDT ang
maglalagay ng mga wires. So from the outside
plant, upto the point of entry nun, hanggang
doon lang po yung kayang i-guarantee ng PLDT.
So after that, yung point of view ng distribution,
yung router, yun po yung minsan yung router
po ninyo, sarili po ninyong provide, pero minsan
provided din ng PLDT. Pero ang point po namin,
we already outlined in detail kung ano po yung
mga variables po na hindi na po hawak ng

P a g e | 29

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

service providers. So these are things na medyo


nanghihinayang kami na hindi po nasama sa
working draft because, if these were included in
the working draft, mas maaappreciate nyo at
maiintindihan ninyo kung hanggang saan lang
po kayang maguarantee ng service provider
ang quality or ang minimum speed kung yun po
ang pag-uusapan natin. Iba pa po yung sa
wireless. Mas komplikado pa pong pag-usapan
yun. In fact, if we look at the FCC Measurement
of Standards, they released a report last year
and they actually studied on a broad latitude
fiber, dsl, cable, and satellite. And wireless,
hindi pa po nila sinisimulan. Ibig ko pong
sabihin, yun pong study po ng FCC, they
(cont.Atty.Ibay)
follow in process by which before they even
came up with the recommendations, which first
came up with measurement. So let us not put
the cart before the horse. Siguro pag-aralan
muna natin, bumili po muna tayo ng equipment
before even undertake massive overhaul of this
NTC MC 7-7-2011. Yun lang po.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Well, on the suggestion nga ng PLDT and Ms.
Grace Santos here, section C, I guess rule there
that would state that the unctrolable variable
shall not be included in the test or shall be taken
into consideration in conducting the test. As to
the methodology, we are thinking that this will
be discussed by the suppliers, once the
suppliers is identified so that matatantsa po
doon yung method by which this test will be
transparent. All the stakeholders are invited to
present their methodology.

P a g e | 30

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

SEN. AQUINO =
Mr. Chairman, I would just like to ask Attorney
Ibay, kapag yung PLDT, mag-i-install sa bahay
mo, kasi ito nangyari na sa akin ito before. Diba
may technician na papasok sa bahay mo, and
then he will test right there and then from the
modem, ite-test nila yun after they activate iyon
diba? Right there and then ba they can already
make a test kung gaano kabilis yung internet na
makukuha mo? They could diba? So again, we
are not trying to ask all the parties here to do
the impossible, we just want fairness lang in the
market. It is possible that right there and then
the technician can test and can say to the
subscriber, Maam yung plan nyo po 5 Mbps
but because of your house, dahil sa wiring ninyo
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
and etc., aabot lang po sa 3.5Mbps. that is
possible diba? So that can be subject of the
Memorandum Circular. Kasi ang nangyayari po
is ite-test tapos aalis na. But then the subscriber
in her mind or in his mind, kasi yung
napirmahan nyang kontrata is 5mbps, iniisip
nya palagi 5mbps. Hindi nya alam na ganun
pala yun. Dahil sa bahay, dahil sa luma na yung
wiring. In fact they can even say, Maam
deretso nalang po natin. This happened to our
house. Ideretso nalang po natin sa poste at
hwag po tayong gumamit ng copper, gumamit
po tayo ng whatever, yung mas high-tech na
wire, para diretso na dito imbes na papasok pa
sa landline ninyo na mas makakasama dun sa
transmission ninyo. That is possible. So again, I
am not discounting what you said. Iniisip ko
lang, maybe in terms of working in the future,
pwede yun diba? Na kapag nag-set-up sila,
anyway, nakapasok naman na sila sa bahay,
they can test right there and then. They can
already say, dahil po sa bahay nyo, dahil po sa

P a g e | 31

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

lugar nyo, you can actually only get 3.5 our of


5 and pwede kayong mag-pirmahan right there
and then para alam ng consumer kung ano
yung maibibigay sa kanya at makukuha nya.
And I really think at this point, if there lots of
hearing regarding infrastructure, creating easy
ways for our private sector partners and even
government that will at the end increase our
internet speed. Pero ito this is really for the
consumers own empowerment na hindi sila
kept in the dark. So that is possible diba? And I
would even suggest that for IPs who are here
baka pwede pang Memorandum Circular yun
Chairman, na once may kaalaman yung ating
mga consumer dun sa kung ano yung nabibili
nila. And I think, the DOJ, that is definitely the
subject matter of DTI. Yun yung mga subject
matter ng agencies right here that we allow
people to have a more transparent process in
terms of getting what they think they are paying
for. That is one suggestion. Another one and I
have to agree is yung reasonability because you
know somebody might be
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
testing pero nagtatago sya sa ilalim ng pinakalowest part of the house talaga. Hindi naman
fair yun. So I agree on the reasonability. We also
have to take out all those variables but again, I
will just reiterate na mahalaga na yung mga
consumers natin may kakayahan to be able to
test and to be able to say kung ano ba talaga
ang nakukuha nila. And then, si Ms. Santos, in
other country, are they test done in the home or
done in parang at the point of yung wala pa
yung as much as possible wala pa yung mga
variable na yung mga extreme variabilities or
the uncontrollable variables. Are the test done
on the consumers part o dun sa mga areas na
mas malakas yung daloy ng ating broadband?

P a g e | 32

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

MS. SANTOS =
Thank you Mr. Senator, essentially, the PLDT
mentioned the FCC, that is the very interesting
type of broadband in America. In the U.S. the
FCC actually has a program called Measure
Broadband America where in there is a 3 rd party,
neutral party that provides modems and routers
to consumers so that you consider the factors
that you can control while you are measuring.
So they were provider the router or hardware
and then I think it is being done in a voluntary
basis. So anyone who would want to install that
equipment at their house, they can measure.
And I would like to emphasize that what is
imporatant here is the consumer experience. I
mean, we can always look at the factor that can
be controlled by the TelCo but at the end of the
day, what does the consumer actually receive?
So I think that is one good model, you can look
at it up Measure Broadband America. So
different points in the U.S. whoever wants to
volunteer can have the equipment installed in
your house by a 3rd neutral party. I think, if I am
not mistaken it is Sam
(cont.Ms.Santos)
knows. And this particular tool is also being
used by Singapore, the IDIAS has also
implemented a similar program or they asked
consumers to participate in data collection. It is
the same provider Sam Knows din I think.
Wherein consumers can report to the regulator
the data that they have collected. So again, the
importance of having large data sets is neutral
sya, and the consumers are able to monitor the
actual service that they receive. In Japan, I think
the regulator or the Ministry of Information and
Communication also do the test but they inform
the citizen and also publish the results online.
And in Sri Lanka, which I mentioned in the

P a g e | 33

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

earlier hearing, the regulator measures the


quality of service but again the consumers are
also given a software in the web based tool. And
then data collection is being done essentially by
the regulator. If you measure, taking into
consideration the consumer experience, then
the measurement will be done at the edge not
at the, I do not know if the other can comment,
not at the part where the network directly raised
to consumers.
SEN. AQUINO =
Well the other thing that we can do, currently
we budgeted 1.4 Billion in Free WiFi for the rest
of the Philippines. Of course that covers public
schools, city halls, town plaza. That is not on a
government that is on Smart and Globe.
Although I do not know how they will divide the
areas and how it will be brough-out. We could
actually have the test there also. You can
mandate the schools who are getting free WiFi
to do the test daily or even the city halls do the
test daily. As far as I know its coverage is
nationwide. And that is 1.4 Billion pesos that we
are providing business to private sectors? So we
can test it from there. That will provide
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
the nationwide picture regarding our internet
infrastructure.
MR. RAPADAS =
If you may allow me, because I understand that
this is a public consultation just with the service
providers. And I come from the experience of
the consumer. So first of all, listening to the
PLDT representative, by the way I am Don

P a g e | 34

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Rapadas, have you determined in our definition


of terms what is Value-Added Service? And do
you ascribe that definition or that term to
mobile broadband service? Because as we use it
now, it as ease to become VAS, it is a main
product or service offer. So kasi you see it as a
VAS that is why you see the proposed provisions
on the MC as over-killed. But I do not think it is
no longer a VAS. Second point is, consumer
knowledge. I will just disclaim here, I am not
advertising Bayantel but I have been a
subscriber of Bayantel for sixteen (16) years.
And that experience has grown. As I have said,
there were many frustrations about the service
but as a consumer I have to learn my rights, I
have to know what I am getting and I have to
know what I should be getting based on my
rights. Then so, now very recently, and Bayantel
can attest to this, because of so many issues
that have been filed through so many years, but
recently have grated to there 3mbps DSL and
the advertised information is upto 3mbps. Mind
you, Bayantel will not put in their information
advertisements the minimum. They always put
up to. So when I called their hotline the demand
in fulfillment group which specifically handles
my account. So through the years, I filed so
many complaints with them that they put my
account under the Demand In Fulfillment Group.
Even if I ask them, can you give me the CIR?
they cannot readily
(cont.Mr.Rapadas)
give it. That is a right of a consumer to know the
CIR, but up-to now, they cannot give it. It takes
them so long. Now I told them, ok, you will
always refer me to that up-to 3mbps but I will
tell them that verstible speed, that is not the
reliable speed most of the time and not all the
time. That is verstible speed and I would
understand I can reach that verstible speed
furing off peak hours. Am I right? They say yes.

P a g e | 35

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Now I ask again, when is you off-peak hours?


They cannot give the information. Now I do not
know if this is true about other internet
providers but I am speaking about my service
provider for 16 years. And that is really
something that I think the consumers should
know. And I think that NTC should help the
consumers to be able to determine what are
their rights, what they can demand from their
service providers. So it is like an information
material. I am a Department of Communication
Scholar and so these are the things that we do.
Provide information to the consumers on what
they can demand as consumers from NTC from,
the service provider. And this is related to
refund and rebate, fortunately, I think because
of my persistence, Bayantel would rebate me
even an hour of interruption. Because the
bottom-line there and this we know very well,
consumers should not pay for service we did not
get. Just like very recently, I think last month,
Bayantel experienced a downtime in the
Novaliches area, I called up Demand in
Fulfullment I said kindly explain to me what is
happening?
and
then
after
so
many
coordination and correspondence, the technical
group went back to me and explain to me
because ang sabi ko nga sa kanila, Do not
worry, I can understand technical terms. I am
from the Apple Users Group I am an Apple
developer, I can understand technical terms.
They told me there was a DTOS attack on the
server that is why they have to shut it down. So
ang sabi ko That is very purely a
(cont.Atty.Rapadas)
problem on your part. It is not cause of extreme
variables like brownout, or an earthquake or
whatsoever acto of God. So it was very clear
that it was on your part, maybe security
problem on your system or network. So these
things, automatically, you must consider rebate

P a g e | 36

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

for all those affected on the area of Novaliches.


Bayantel always consider that for me but if you
are considering that for me, you should be
considerate for all those affected area. I do not
know if they are doing that.
SEN. AQUINO =
Sir, before Atty. Ibay answers your questions, I
have two questions. When you check your
speed, where do you check it and what is your
usual average speed that you get? And
secondly, why did not you consider changings
ISP?
MR. RAPADAN =
Regarding your first question your Honor, there
is a popular portal online where most users go
to, that is SpeedTest.net. And that is what
Bayantel also recommends to me. I do not know
about other internet providers if they
recommend SpeedTest.net. But I also asked
them to do PING test so they dictate how to do
it on the phone so PING test among those line.
Right now I am subscribed to upto 3mbps I use
SpeedTest.Net, I monitor many times throughout
the day, the most that I get is 2.5mbps and the
lowest I get is .9 mbps. That is it.

SEN. AQUINO =
Maybe a follow-up, is it included in your contarc
that your minimum speed is .9 or .5, that would
be the rough thing.

P a g e | 37

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

MR. RAPADAN =
But I would still appreciate it if it is clearly stated
or informed in their commercials, promotional
items and advertisings. But they do not, in fact,
if you pull up the website now of Bayantel, you
would not see the minimum speed.
SEN. AQUINO =
Why have you not changed your ISP if you have
lots of complaints?

MR. RAPADAN =
Because they always attend to my concerns,
that is the very important aspect of a clientservice provider relation. They are open to
feedback, they are open to suggestions. And
whenever I request for refund or rebate, they
always grant it. And whenever there is a
technical problem that requires them to visit
physically our place, our connection at home
and even within the area they have this called
UPAC, that is the brown cavinet where all the
switches are located. In fact, they have even
dedicated a line for me in that switch just to
make sure that I enjoy the subscribed speed
that I expect. That is something, that is lovehate
(cont.Mr.Rapadas)
relationship. But it takes to be informed by the
consumer because nalalaman naman ng ISP na
may alam yung kausap nila. So hindi po

P a g e | 38

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

pwedeng, laging scripted lang yung mga sagot.


Kasi ganun sila e, when you call
on their
hotline, scripted yung mga sagot nila e. Gusto
ko pong malaman Senator about dun po s VAS, I
think even many of us will agree na-overtake na
nga ng internet yung lines . We do not usually
use it now.
SEN. AQUINO =
I will let Atty. Ibay answer but I would have a
suggestion about VAS.
MR. RAPADAN =
Thank you Sir.
ATTY. IBAY =
Good morning. You asked a question regarding
internet as a value-added service. It is actually
the core of what is being confronted now and
one of the things that we actually want to raise
as duly and franchised company is that totoo po
yan. In fact in many countries, I think that is the
major issue that is being deliberated weather or
ot internet should be considered as a basic
service. But going back to the Philippines, when
you say that an entity is a Value-Added Service
provider:
1. Value-Added Service is an
enhanced service. It is not part of the basic
service of a provider; 2. Value-Added Service
provider did not get
(cont.Atty.Ibay)
a franchise from the congress to provide the
sevice; and 3. A Value-Added provider does not

P a g e | 39

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

have the authority to roll-out an infrastructure


needed to render the service but only has to
ride on the networks supposedly of a duly and
franchised company. And that I think is the
problem which I also would like to raise that
there are a verified reports that there are ValueAdded Service providers who enter internet but
are actually already rolling-out their own
infrastucture. And so we would like to probably
ask the NTC to take a look into that. And then
another thing, because of that, the internet is
largely a Value-Added Service and I do not know
how we register Value-Added Service providers
as NTC already have since the time that it
started rolling-out or certifying, giving out VAS
Certificates and VAS registrations. There are
also complaints from certain areas that they
receive very poor quality internet because of
course, they get their service only from ValueAdded Service providers that have no authority
to render infra but because they would like to
sell internet, they actually either tap their own
infra however, that the standards are not
actually certified by the NTC. Or, they are
actually rendering an internet service which
does not actually even conform with the level of
quality that the NTC would rate as acceptable.
Those are things that we also would like to let
the public know. But the only thing here that I
think is scary is if the service become a basic
need and we have descent franchise. A lot of
these service provider should not have currently
franchises to render that service right there and
then. If it become a basic service, all these
service providers who are supposedly null and
franchised would be illegal, it would have to
stop rendering that service right there and then.
Thank you.

P a g e | 40

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

SEN. AQUINO =
If I may add there, mabigat kung pag-uusapan
yung basic service, there is a technicial
definition to basic service and there is what we
all understand. I think yung what we all
understand, we accept that. Internet is very
important in our daily lives now a day. Now
when we put a basic service sa value-added
service, that is an age old debate. On one hand,
if we make it as a basic service, you allow
government to step-in, put a paper structure,
mandate the rates, give out franchises to those
who feel like worthy or capable of rolling-out
their infrastructure. Yung pro nun, they will get
the government to really say this is something
we need to invest in. And part of the yearly
budget needs to go to improving our internet
infrastructure just like in America, Japan even
Australia. They do allocate or they have
allocated in the past huge amount of budget
just to finish the last mile kasi in those countries
may concentration of services talaga yung sa
main cities. But in the far-plug areas, or the
farther out areas, government actually spent for
that infrastructure. That is the pro of the basic
service. The con of the basic service, as
Attorney Ibay has said, is that you are actually
closing the market. You are not opening up the
market. Mas magiging specific kung sino yung
mga pwedeng gumawa nito and as we all know
there is already a call right now to open up the
market further. If it is carried as a Basic Service,
on one hand and right now it is a Value-Added
Service, that is not a basic service, on one hand,
they cannot mandate on how much should be
the price per kilobyte. Government cannot
mandate. If it is a contract between a consumer
and a TelCo, the government cannot stand and
say, Kailangan per 1mb ganito lang yung
presyo because it is not a basic service. It is

P a g e | 41

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

not a regulated service. On one hand, ok din


yun because they will allow the market to
actually determine the prices but it must also go
hand
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
in hand wtih allowing the smaller ISPs, not just
the two (2) giants, to also come in and distrupt
the market because if they will distrupt the
market, then you will have better competition
and you will have, hopefully, better service on
the ground. But yung con naman dyan is that
you cannot just say, Kailangan ganito yung
presyo. That is why if you notice, both the DOJ
and the DTI are here because we are tackling
this as a consumer issue. Because wether it is a
basic service or a value-added service, there is
still a consumer issue that is waiting on the
authority of NTC to rule on. So they are not
doing this because it is a basic service or even
for that matter of value-added service. If you
look at the MC, again, this is just one of the
things,many things that we are trying to do. The
summary of this circular and we are hoping to
come up with circular that everyone agrees with
and it is like everyone can get behind, is really
empowering the consumers. Allowing people
like you to really say that, Ito yung experience
ko, ito yung sabi ng NTC na rate in Novaliches or
in NCR for this month. Where was I compared to
the average rate? Then after that let
consumers also decide. Kung ito yung
nakukuhang rate ng mga TelCos natin and
hopefully, sumusunod sila sa mga inaadvertise
nila na speeds. But people can decide again.
Again, consumer issue, people can decide again
na, In my area, si TelCo X is stronger because
of their infrastructure, hindi si TelCo Y, so dito
ako kay TelCo X. Of course that will cause the
other TelCos to say, Kailangan because of my
transparency, kailangan we should all work for
having better infrastructure para our consumers

P a g e | 42

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

have better options.So the question on valueadded service vs. basic service is actually
medyo mabigay sya for the TelCos, for
government, for everyone. To be frank, it is still
an on going discussion while I think one thing
we can agree on is the consumer aspect. That
this is really something that we
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
are doing that the consumers would not feel
that you are out of the process. Because that is
your money, how much does 3mbps costs?
P1,499.00. That P1,499.00, that is important.
That is a big money. So you should get what
you paid for. And at the end of the day, we are
just trying to get to that, what did I paid for?
What did they say that I am paying for? And
what am I actually paying for? Within reason.
Again within reason, we are not saying 100% of
the time kailangan ganito. The number right
now is within 30% to 80%. Ther is a suggestion
of 30% , and there are also suggestions of 80%.
So at least if these rules are out there already,
we have the monitoring mechanisms, our
consumers will be protected and will be
empowered.
MR. RAPADAS =
Again, referring to my recent upgrate on my DSL
subscription up to 3mbps, I requested the
provider to put it on two-week trial period so
that I would know if I am able to reach that
speed, and they allowed that.
SEN. AQUINO =
And again, as what you have said, love and hate
relationship. But I am still optimistic that our

P a g e | 43

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

service provider also still, at the end of the day,


want to have a better relationship with the
consumers. And hopefully by pushing for
transparency and putting this out there
empowering the NTC to have the monitoring
tools, aabot tayo doon. Rather than lagi nalang
tayong nag-e-LQ, lagi nalang tayong may love
and hate relationship, let us more towards one
where we can be partners in developing our
data infrastructure, giving the best to our
Filipino people.
MR. CONSULTA =
Sir, actually, Senator mentioned about the free
WiFi. Actually, I am so lucky that I was able to
attend in this public hearing because my
concern was metioned also by the Senator
about the last mile which is the TV White Space.
Do we have the regulation about that?

COMMISSIONER =
Thank you for that question, actually the last
day for submission because we already had a
hearing last December, but
with
all
the
stakeholders. And after that, I asked for time to
submit their position papers. And then because
of the several holidays, the Christmas break and
the Papal Visit, they asked until today February
16 for the position papers. So we alrady
received some of the position papers and we are
waiting for the KBPs position paper which is
today. After that, we can already issue the MC
on the TV White Space. Sir, I will just add.
Maybe just observation sa ating RB that yung
difference between the testing on the wired and
yung wireless is not so clear. So maybe we can

P a g e | 44

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

make it clearer and we can put the methodology


for wired and also for wireless.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir, fixed and fixed wireless and then mobile.
We separate the mobile from fixed and fixed
wireless because we two have separate
standards if we decide to impose minimum
service circumstances to mobile.
MR. CONSULTA=
Few comments lang based on what we have
heard so far, on the service standard, most of
people thinks that the company personally are
before the service that I received was X and now
all of the sudden, without doing anything,
without doing any substantial change, it
becomes Y% of X. It is never from the start they
receive service, they receive this poor service
when they got good service before. And when
they expect this service because they receive
this poor service before and it reiterate. Second,
therefore you asked for the measuring standard
seem that they note also that in the States, the
FCC is made available as a tool for download
measuring
app.
However
the
hardware
measuring will still be more accurate. And then
with regard to broadband, we would also like to
share that this year, FCCs definition of
broadband is now 25mbps.
SEN. AQUINO =

P a g e | 45

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

So if you are below 25, what are you called? It is


not dial-up because there is no dial-up up to this
time right? You are not broadband.

ATTY. LIM =
Thank you Mr. Senator, I really think that asking
the ISP companies to declare their average
minimum speeds is a whole lot better than
requiring them to follow a minimum or fixed
minimum speed of internet service when it is
not always practical given the various
uncontrollable variables, factors existing from
(cont.Atty.Lim)
place to place. So ISPs can do that by publishing
their average internet speeds in their websites.
And people can easily refer to see those
minimum speeds when they do their browsing. I
think it is better than setting a fixed minimum
speed of broadband internet.
SEN. AQUINO =
Attorney, my question there is in fact that is my
first, when we had the first hearing last year,Do
we have a year? Not yet? I am hoping that when
we reach our 1 year, we will already have a
good news. If you remember on our first
hearing, OFC was there it was not Mon who was
there but there was another representative
there. Then after a few months, we found that
the TelCos were putting 256kbps minimum
speed, even if their up to mbps is 5 or 10. It is
like let us just all put minimum 256kbps. So it is
like whatever plan you have, as long as you are
within the minimum of 256kbps. Parang yun

P a g e | 46

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

yung fair sa mga tao kasi wala ka nang choice


because everyone is within this 256kbps which I
think will be GPRS level. Rather than a
percentage of your up-to speed. So initially, I
also called for that na ilagay nalang lahat ng
mga minimum and then let the people decide.
But then all of the stated minimum is all at the
same level. So parang yun lang yung
discomfort ko dun na we will just let all the ISPs
to put their minimum speed so that everyone
will agrees that, then let us just put 128kbps
minimum over all. So people will really have no
choice. Again, we are trying to work with the
private sector here, but how can we come up
with the rule that will also be helpful to the
consumers rather thanbecause they might
saySige 1kbps ang minimum and everyone
will do that, so it will be just the same, we will
not be of help to the people. You care comment
on that.
ATTY. LIM =
Thank you Sir. That is exactly the makeshift
there because the ISPs will be required to set
the minimum but either cannot be complied
with or that is so unreasonably low it becomes
absurd, that is why the better rule at the
moment is the TelCo to follow is just to set the
up-to speed. Now we realize the desire of the
consumer to have a speed that they can more
or less rely when they use their internet. And so
I think the suggestion that you hear to state the
average minimum speed will address that
problem because it now gives the consumers a
choice. It gives the consumers a choice of which
TelCo to subscribe to.
SEN. AQUINO =

P a g e | 47

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

So just to clarify, the TelCos will publish their


average
minimum
speed
for
every
advertisement or plan that they have. That is
the suggestion?
ATTY. LIM =
For every locality in their websites, it is hard to
publish the average minimum speed in their
print advertisement for example because these
are nationwide advertisements and people
might interpret that this is the average
minimum speed everywhere which cannot
always be followed given the variables like in
certain areas there are no cellsites because
their local government does not allow it or
because of the defect on the device that is used
by the subscriber. That is the mischief of
requiring the TelCos to state in their national
print advertisements their average speed
(cont.Atty.Lim)
because the average speed vary from place to
place from locality to locality.
SEN. AQUINO =
So you agree, if the MC is passed, you are
saying that Globe will publish in their website
the average minimum speed, kunyari all
provinces or all cities. They are willing to do
that?
ATTY.LIM =

P a g e | 48

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

I think that will be better Sir. Requiring them to


follow the fixed minimum speed that is
applicable everywhere which is not always
possible to do.
SEN. AQUINO =
So what do you put out on your national
advertisements if you will take down that
information on the average minimum speed?
ATTY. LIM =
We can place there an asterisk at the bottom
that the average speeds are variable from place
to place that may be found in the websites.

SEN. AQUINO =
Ok. So I suggest you make it more straightforward to call your local service provider for the
average speed on their locality.
ATTY. LIM =
That is another suggestion. Thank you. And of
course this average minimum speed can
improve to time.
MS. SANTOS =

P a g e | 49

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Thank you Commissioner, I would like to


reiterate one of the statements made by
LIRNasia in its position paper. The question is
can we come up with a common measurement
tool for the operators? Because I understand
that internally, the operators have their own
tools. But if we are to use the results of their
measurement, as an information tool for the
consumers, they have to be using the same
measurement tool. I do not know if that is
possible, but we can look into it. LIRNasias
position paper said while network operators
usually have various diagnostics for internal
quality monitoring purposes, they usually
consider the segments of the network with the
best connectivity that does not accurately
emulate the access network as I mentioned
earlier. As a result, the diagnostics will often
differ from what the consumers actually
experience. If we are to measure for the
purpose of informing consumers, then that
should be taken into consideration.

SEN. AQUINO =
I think we are passed that because we are
already purchasing the equipment.
MS. SANTOS =
Sir, actually, I want to clarify that too. Is the
equipment that you will purchase, can you
inform everyone, all the stakeholders wether it
is a hardware that you will put in the base
station or per network or something?

P a g e | 50

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

DIR. CABARIOS =
It would be hardware and a software that will be
purchased by the Commission. We will make
known in the TOR that the application software
will be made available to the consumers for
them to measure. The hardware, we will have
the hardware outside the network of the TelCos.
We will have to discuss the methodology once
we identify the suppliers so that all
stakeholders comments and suggestions will be
taken into consideration in the preparation of
the methodology with the supplier.
MS. SANTOS =
Sir, may I just raise a suggestion, when you
conduct the hearing or consultation for the
measurement tool, may I suggest to invite
network operatorss engineers and engineering
schools? I am sure that people would be happy
to comment. Sort of a fair review.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes, all interested parties.

SEN. AQUINO =
This is the usual government procurement
process. So there will be a bidding?
DIR. CABARIOS =

P a g e | 51

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
I am not too familiar with the process but you
will first release a TOR, is that right? And then
publicly you will publish that?
DIR. CABARIOS =
The TOR your Honor, if we purchase bids.
SEN. AQUINO =
Okay so that is to signify if they want to bid they
purchase the TOR.

DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Okay. And then the crafting of TOR will undergo
some consultation.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes your Honor. Later on it will be prepared by
the Commission. Of course there will be
consultation in the preparation of TOR.

P a g e | 52

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

MR. ACERO =
I think Ms. Santos point earlier was that if the
TelCos were going to publish on their websites
the average speeds, siguro because if there is
any, to rebut any findings of the Commission,
that is also the risk that might be there. That
what we used to measure that would be the
same tool that is used by the Commission if we
can require that.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir because it will be make known to
everybody that we are using this.

SEN. AQUINO =
My earlier suggestion was side by side. So you
have NTC, which is the official, and you also
have from Globe from PLDT, from Speedtest,
from Ookla, because they varies right? And
consumers should be able to, I am sure, groups
like, Democracy.Net put these things side by
side for people to decide but with the
understanding that the NTC is the official one.
MR. ACERO =
Yes, the point is the tool that will be used
internally by them, it has to be similar at least.
MS. SANTOS =

P a g e | 53

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

If I may Sir, whenever LIRNasia does its


research, it always emphasized that you cannot
compare two results done by two different
measurement tools. That is why it is important
because it is like you can compare apples and
oranges. So if it is possible to have, remember
Senator, during our previous hearings, we agree
that a common measurement tool will be used
precisely because you cannot start to compare
the results. Magiging confusing lang po yun Sir.
Like PLDT and Globe have also mentioned this in
the past, Yung Akamai hindi yan reliable. Yung
Ookla hindi din reliable. Pero bakit? Then you
start to look at the methodology being used.

SEN. AQUINO =
So with what you are saying, for everyone to
agree what the official tool is. Anyway, I think
yung position paper ni PLDT is that as long as it
is in the NTC its observer you have the list of
things, I am sure that the Globe requirements
are. But I am sure you agree that is with the NTC
is is a 3rd party. .
SEN. AQUINO =
And while we agree that consumers should also
be empowered to do their own testing,
ultimately, there is also a pure test which the
speed will have validation by the regulator.
Better yet nga is they are using the software of
the regulator also and they add to the data.

P a g e | 54

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

That is the sound na may aggregation tool ka if


people want to volunteer and submit their
informations like where you are. Because last
year, I am sorry I am not an engineer, am I
making sense? Is that correct?
COMMISSIONER =
Sir, I will just add, actually there will be talking
to the TelCos also on the tools that we are going
to use so we can consult to them that we can
compare apples to apples as what you have
mentioned earlier.
MR. ACERO =
Maybe as what LIRNasia through Grace said, if
we can include that on the next consultation the
members of the Academe.
MS. SANTOS =
Sorry, another addendum. Actually, the Ateneo
is also conducting its own measurements. So
perhaps,
people
from
Academians
and
Engineering schools can be invited. Also, people
from UP Engineering Schools, they are doing
their own measurement although not on the
regular basis. But if we can have this community
of peope, different stakeholders, hopefully,
using the same measurement tool testing their
own experience. And also, maybe we can even
expand and include universities and colleges
because we also want to go outside of Metro
Manila.

P a g e | 55

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

SEN. AQUINO =
And then if it is possible ano? When you publish
the results siguro, not just in a tabular format
but the graphical format like a Hint Map or
something. I am sure if this data is available in a
raw format, we will have the other groups play
with the data and not use it properly. And you
can give it back to NTC if they cannot publish it.
But then once a data is there, people will use it
as usual. People will be able to use it to help
people make their choices. So I think what is
important is that we make the data available to
the public.
ATTY. LIM =
Sir, I would just like to make a clarification, while
compliance with the average data speed
published by this TelCo is a whole lot easier
when it comes to wired lines. It may not always
be so with wireless or mobile. We should always
submit subjet to that visibility standard and of
course purchase can also contain a
(cont.Atty.Lim)
qualification there that your average broadband
speed may be affected by. But of course the
TelCos will need to comply with their published
average speed.
SEN. AQUINO =
Definitely, and I think if the people are more
knowledgable, it is helpful for everyone. Again,
it would not just be the TelCos. Sometimes I feel
that they are always providing money for the
infrastructure, but then people are never

P a g e | 56

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

satisfied. So people also need to do their share.


And if you are knowledgable internet user, you
will do things to really improve, meron namang
pwedeng gawin to improve your experience.
Everything from having the right wiring to facing
the satellite if you have satellite dish, where to
put the dish, that can be the counterpart on the
consumers. Hindi lang yung lagi nalang nagkocomplain. So they can do their part, government
can do his part, then TelCos and ISPs can do
their part and hopefully move to a better
situation. The truth is, wiring is really a big
thing. If you wired directly from the pole
assuming that the modem is just nearby the
pole. That will bump up your speed from 20% to
30% right there are then. And a lot of people
nagugulat kasi kumukuha from the telephone
line. That can go hand in hand with this. I have a
question regarding the use of the word
broadband, is there a definition of broadband?
There is no legal definition of broadband. Are
we just using the generally accepted terms?
COMMISSIONER =
ITU.
SEN. AQUINO =
ITU. But in US, they just said that their
broadband is now 25%. Lahat yun is the same or
just in the US or people are free to define what
is broadband is in the area?
ATTY. IBAY =

P a g e | 57

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

The ITU and the OECD, Organization for


Economic Cooperation and Development, has
define Broadband as 256kbps and faster.
SEN. AQUINO =
So 256kbps.

MR. YU =
In what year did they define that?
ATTY. IBAY =
Well, last year they released the 2014 State of
the
Broadband
Report
to
Broadband
Commission and it is still there.
MR. YU =
Yes but when was it first defined?
ATTY. IBAY =
I really do not know but up to now, the question
is ITU still stands on its own definition? So if we
will have issues with ITU, then let us go to the
ITU and tell them to revise their definition.
SEN. AQUINO =

P a g e | 58

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

So that generally accepted is the OECD and ITU


definition which is 256kbps.
MR. ACERO =
May I point out, that 256kbps, keeping the
definition of broadband lower is more beneficial
to a person who wants to impose regulations in
broadband. Because if you are not broadband,
you do not need that specified requirement,
then you do not have to meet service standard.
But if broadband has minimum service standard,
then the lower, the better.
SEN. AQUINO =
Well obviously, but we also have to subscribe to
a definition. I am just wondering kasi if we
define broadband, here is one and US they
define it 25. So I am thinking now maybe yung
publishing the average speed might also be
better, but again, this is a public hearing so it is
time for the suggestions. It is not yet final. Kasi
one thing is, if you are below 256, you cannot
advertise your self as a broadband. That is clear
to everyone right?
COMMISSIONER =
Anymore questions or comments? Sir, siguro po
just to give some timelines for our next steps.
We will need time to put everything in to one
MC, draft MC. Will publish it through our website
and also distribute it to the parties, we have
your e-mail addresses. We will send it by March
6. And then, we are giving you until March 13 to
submit also your comment to that March 6 draft.

P a g e | 59

2nd Public Hearing on the Memorandum Order No. 07-07-2011


Re: Minimum Speed of Broadband Connections
TSN/February 16, 2015

And then we can issue the MC po within March.


That is our timeline. And then Sir, just to let you
know on another matter, on March 20, there
would be meeting with the government
agencies regarding the One-Stop Shop on
access based on the proposed build-up. Thank
you so much Senator Aquino for helping us on
these items, and thank you also to our resource
persons, to our guests and visitors who
attended this hearing. Thank you so much.

Prepared by:

Ms. Ailene G. Salilin


Stenongrapher I