ET V DM State # 644-19 & 20 - Feb 7 2006 Transcript Vol 1

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 1 of 222
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M ONTGOM ERY v.ETREPPID,DEPT 0F DEFENSE

Case No.CV-N-06-056
SEALED TILANSCRIPT OF HEARJN G OX
PRELIM INARY IN JtJNCTION DATED 2-7-2006
(VOLUM E lOF I1),IN 2NDJ'UDICJM DISTRICT COURT

OF N EV A DA, COUNTY OF W A SHOE,
CASENO.CV06-00114,DEPT.9
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T HE M ON T G O M 1!R Y 113AM (L Y 14il(JST ;
D ENN 1E; MON T (5OM ElILY 4n d BR ElN DA
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S E A L E D
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VOLUME I of 11
T RANSCR IPT CF PROCZEDINGS
HEAR ING - PRRLIM INARY INJUNC TION
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Tuesday , February 7, 2006
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RENO , N EVA LIA
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Reported By :
LIZA CHAPEN , RMR, NV CCR #93
California CSR #2065

L IZA C HA PE'
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(775) 323-5492

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LA W O F'1
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Rec ross Fxam inat ion hy Flynn
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WARREN TREPP
Direct Exam inat ion by Jakop in
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LIZA CHAPEN , CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

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MCSIGNATION
MFRFRO ADMITTED
Exhibit 1
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Ex h ib i t 2
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Exh ibit 3
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Exh ibit 4
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Exh ibit 5
247
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Exhib it 6
253
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Exhib it 7
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256
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LIZA CHAPEN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492

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G o od nlo rn in g .
Plea s(? i)e seated .
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W e 're .
Ln se s s i on f o r
C V 0 6 - 00 1 14 .
Pre lim i.nary InjuIRc1.ion .
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W e '17e he r e fo r cp h ea ri n g o n a
W o u 1 c1 c o un s e l s ta t e y o u r a pp e a ra n c e s fo r
t he co u rt re p o r t:(7r .
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M R . PlrE'
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G oo d m (3rn i.n g r y ou r H on o r .
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S te p h e n E'ee k o n L)e h a lf o f th e P la in t i ff ,
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Pre p p i d T e c hn o lo g i
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A 1 so w i 1r.l
't m e t hi s mo rn in g , an d yo u si gne d
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t he o rde r on th e p r t) h ac v ic e , is Da v id Ja kop i n ,
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c o -c o u n s e 1 ; D o u g E'r 5,e , l
na na g e r o f e T re pp id ; a n d
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Wa r re n T r epp , a 1.
so rrtan age r a n d ch i e f exe cu h ive
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o f f 1ce r o f e'
P re pp id .
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T H E CO U R T :
A 1 1 r ig h t .
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MR . LOGAR :
You r Hon or r i f i t p lea s e the
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Thank you .
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C o u rt , I 'm Ro n a ld L o ga r rep r e s ent ing t h e De fe nda n t .
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a lo n g w it h M r . E r5c Pu 1v e r i n m y o f f ic e .
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1 w o u ld li.ke to i n t ro du c e t o y o u a M ic h ae 1
J . Flynn .
LIZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
00:o4
(775) 323-5492
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' M R . FluY H N :
M R . LO GA R :
pro hac vice has been made .
T h e ap p l Lc a t io n f o r ad m ia s io n to
T h e M a ss ac h u se t ts Ba r ha s s en t a
00:05
Certificate of Gocd Standing to the State Bar of
Hevada .
a pp ro v a l .
The State Bar of Nevada has issued its
lt wa s over-nighted yeste rda y to my
10
office .
It sho uld be received by Federal Exp ress
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about 10 :00 or 10 :30 th is m orn ing: h avinq complied
12
with the Supreme Court rule as to adm ission , and we
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a s k t ha t M r . F'A y n 11 be pe rmi 1.te d t o a p (7e a r in th is
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m a t te r o n b eh a 2 f ()f t he De f en d Esn t .
15
M R . PE L'K :
Y o u r I1on 0 r , 1 w o u l d h av e no
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objection basecl o11 t14at reJ)resentation that it is
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b e i ng o v e r - n i g h te d an d s h ou ld b e h e re t o d ay .
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accep t Mr . Logar 's repre sentation as an o fficer of
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this court .
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So 1 certainly -- although I 've not seen
the p ro hac v ice application , l expect the Bar to do
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their job .
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TH E COIJRT :
A l1 right .
On th at basis ,
that will be fine. We'1l allow that.
L1ZA CiIAPFIN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
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M r . F'Ly n n is a m em b e r o f the
M as sa c h u se tt s B a r.
G o od Ino rn in (
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M r . PlRilir) S tillman .
good stancikng o f P()th Lhe Massachustts and the State
B a r o f C a l f o rn i a .
Mr . St ktlman is a member in
He has mcde application to the State Bar
o f Hev ada fo r admission and app rova l p ro hac vice .
His Cer tificate of Good Standing w as sen t to the
State Bar 's office in Las Vegas yeste rday b y the
State of California .
10
It 's expected that the State Rar o f
11
Massachusetts wi . l send the Certificate of Good
12
Stand ing to the Las Veqas office tod ay , and then the
13
Las Vegas office will issue its approval and we
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expect that w ithsn the n ext tw o days .
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An(
-1 t he IA 1 'd 1. i ke to in t rod u ce
M R . L ('
)CJh R :
The de lay on Mr . St i llman is due to the
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fa c t t h at M r . Stlllman p rov ided with his app lication
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t o t h e St a te B a r r ec e nt adm i s s ion b e f o re a F e d er a l
18
Court in the State of California ; however
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was b eyond 30 days ' tme o f issuance from the date of
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app lication , the S tahe Bar sa id they needed something
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more current , so that is the --
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MR . PFEK :
00:06
00:06
since it
Your Honor, absent the app roval
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by th e State Har , E would object to his admission
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until the State Bar has at least had its opportunity
00:06
(775) 323-5192
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E wou 1ct ()L)ject unLil thaL process has been

a pp ro v ed .
MR . S'
T JL J=MAN ;
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No .
M R . 1,'
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W e 1 1 , y o u know , yo u in d ic a t e d
Y ou r ilo no r , m a y 1?
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to u s , yo u r H on o r , w he n w e ha d o u r me e t in (
g 1 a s t w ee k
t h a t y o u h a v e 13a :i s(lme d i.ff ic u ).ty w it h t h e
r ep r e se n t a t io r4s :)1 (7c)un se 1 j.n t he p a s t .
10
1 do n 't know how t o re spo nd to th a t
o t he r
11
than the fact that Lf there was any ind ication by way
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o f either M r . Elynn o r Mr . Stillman that there wa s a
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p rob lem , the app lcation would not have even been
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filed , no r w ould : have considered the assoc iation .
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1 ma ke the representation to the Court in
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good faith and a sk that Mr . St illman b e allowed to
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participate subjact to approval and an order signed
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b y th ks C ou rt thts w ee k .
19
t.o ve t an d re ce ivE', .
i.t yo u kli1 1.r a nd t he n ap p rov e .
M R . PEEK :
oo:07
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Your Honor , if this were a
20
situation where there weren tt alread y ab le counsel --
21
I count four at coun sel table right now -- to
22
rep re sent M r . M ontgomery and the Montgomery Trust , I
23
probably would not have that objection, and I also
24
knowr respectfulky to Mr. Logar, whose
(775) 323-5492
00:08

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rep resenta tions E accept, buL he do es not speak fo r
t he St a te B a r .
29o u n 1ni L the FJta te B a r h a s sp o ke n , I 1:h n k
Lhat frty ob ject ion 1arder SC'R Rt.h1e 12 is we11 taken and
shou lcl b e hono re (1.
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T H E C (3U RT :
We 1. l , th e ru 1e , i f I re c a 11
it , S C R 42 , sa ys t 14ftt unt i1 app rova 1 and the o rder i s
s ig ned , t.h a t L h e o t4t:-o f-s t a te c ou n s e 1 sh a l l n o t be
a 1l ow e d t o a c t iv (a1 y p a rt i c ip a Le .
10
1 thiIRk w ith this objection, 1 'm L)ound by
11
th e r u le s o l c a 14n ()t. -- 1 w j 1l a 1 1.ow th e f i r st
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g en t lem a n t o p a rt i(Jp at e , b u t 1 c an n o t. - -
00:09
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M R . L()G A R :
I u n de rs t a nd , y ou r H o n o r .
14
T H E O ()U R 1':
T f it w e re n 't f o r t he ru le , I
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wo u 1d .
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M R . L()G 1$R :
1 14nd e rs t a nd .
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T H E C()U R7':
Bu t o n e o f t h e th inq s I 1m
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fin d in g o u t t h e ko n (
;e r 1 ':(t u p h e re is th e re a re a 1o t
19
of things that jlzdges thin k the y can do that., if you
20
re a d th e ru le , th e y c a n 't , a nd th is i s o n e o f t hem .
21
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1 t h i11k th e ru 1 e s a y s ''s h a 1 l n o t. '' an d

s o -M R . LOGAR :
W e 1 l , t ha t i s ''p a rt ic ip at e z''
but I b elieve that bt 's p erm issible , M r . Stillm an can
LIZA CHA PEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
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problem w ith thitl .
a b l e t o ta l k t o h i m .
O h , su re .
1 d o n 't. se e a
! don 't see a prob lem with being
1 th ink tha t the ru le ta lks about
pa rticipate in settlement con fe rence s and various
other thing s, b ut. 1 cion 't see -- I d on t see that
the re w ould be any reason why you co uldn 't confer
w i t h h im .
10
11
MR. PEEK: And 1 have no objection to him
TH E C()URT :
13
MR . PEEK:
15
Righ t .
It's just a matter of
partic tpating .
THE t'
-'CIUFT :
Well, I 'm hop eful that we lre
16
not go ing to have , you know , ev ery time there 's a
17
a r g um e n t , th a t e ve ry law ye r o n e ac h s id e i s g o in g to
18
sp ea k, anyway ; f 'd like to try Lo keep it a little
19
b it m ore o rganized than that .
20
21
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So I thin k thak we bre going to have som e
con ferencing on :,0 th sides .

M R . PEEK :
Your Honor , with that in m ind ,
23
1 1m m ind ful of that rule and ge nerally what I have
21
seen is that if 1 ,m presenting a witness r I pm the one
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00:09
s it ting be fore the Bar either, your Hono r.
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(775) 323-5492
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maki-ng the 0bjec 1)i)n; if M r . Jakop in is p resenLi-nc.l
the witness, he's the one maktng the objection .
1 a s s um e t h a t th a t w l l b e th e p r o ced u r a l
order of this Cour t. today , that whoever is presenting
that w itness or cross-exam in ing will be the one
making the objections.
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l'HE COURT :
Yes, 1 fd li ke to
try to do that just for the purpose of order and
o rgan ization .
10
A gain , you know , i 'm in terested m ostly in
11
find ing out what the truth bs here and so that 5s the
12
first qoal ; procedu ra l propr ietary is th e second one .
13
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somebody needs to sa y som ethinq and it 's not
15
something that we fre doing a l1 day long , that fs fine .
17
r ea d y t o p ro c ee d ?
MR . PEEK :
W e are ready to p roceed r your
Honor .
20
THE COURT :
A ll right .
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MR . FLYNN :
Good morning , your Honor .
22
Than k yo u for granting m y adm ission .
23
Befo re w e proceed , 1 need to add ress the
24
00:11
So w izh that in m ind r M r . Pee k, are you
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So , you know , if something come s up that
16
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Cou rt about an u rgent and immediate p ro cedural
LIZA CHAPEN: CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

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M R . FiuY Ht4 :
A ;1d 1 '::t g o in (; t o b e 1 i.m ite d a s
. .
t o how m u c h 1 c an fle s h o u t t)o the C ou rt b eca us e o f
the na ture o f w hitt 1 'm go tng to desc rib e to the
C ou rt .
Let me preface my remarks by saying that
what we lre invo lved in here is of the highest , most
secretive , m o st urgent, m ost imm edia te cla ssifed
10
security info rm ation r that I th in k, afte r the Court
11
gets an idea wh at. it is, will agree w ith m e , that can
12
be possib ly imagined by this Oourt .
13
00:11
00:12
S o a t t h e o u t s et , w e 're d e a l tng w th th e
14
fact that who has a security clea rance in the
15
courtroom and who does n ots because everyth ing 1'm
16
go ing to describe pe rsphe raliy involves th is secret
17
i n fo rm a t io n w h i ch g o e s t o t h e h e a rt , t h e c o re i ssu e s
18
o f wha t th is Cou rt ha s to decide , includ ing the core
19
issue of what prop rietary inform ation is involv ed and
20
who owns it .
21
p r ob 1 eIa w . th re C
ga r d t)() h 0w w (? p ro (
7e ed .
oo:w
The dichotom y existent with in eTreppid
22
T echnolog ies : between the o riginal deal that w as made
23
u nder the Contribution A greement , wh ich I understand
24
the Court ha s seen , for data compression technology
LIZA CHAPZN , CCR, RMR
00:12
(775) 323-5492

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M R . P CFK :
M R . F LY I1II:
M R . P ZFK :
Your Honor, I -T h e it
ssu e s --
1 app reciate counsel 's
eloquence , bu t t hjs is not a filibuster .
a motion to be Inacle , Inake a l

notion .
1;
ha s been m erqed into b y the Pla intiff .
lf there 's
r e ad y to p ro c ee d on m y m o ti on .
lf th ele 's a motion to be made , as opp osed
10
to the sup erlativi.s and the filibu ster, 1 'd like to
11
hear the m otion so that we can add ress if hhere is a
12
motion of urgency to be made , but otherwise I 'd l ike
13
to p roceed w ith my case .
14
this .
16
from Mr . M ontgom ery and 1 don 't want one more delay .
18
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00:13
The C ou rt to ld u s we only have today to do
15
17
00:13
You a sked if I was ready to p roceed ; I 'm
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W e have already had over tw o weeks o f dela y
on:1a
So I wcuatcl a pp re c ka t e , y ou r Ho n o r , t h i s i s
m y case , I 'd like to proceed with my ca se .

THE C DURT :
A 1l right .
I believ e he 's
20
prefacin g what he 's saying as a p re face to som e kind
21
of a requ est or mo tion .
22
MR . FLYNN :
That 's correct , your Honor .
23
If the Court will indulge m e --
24
T H E C O I)Rr2:
1 w i1 1 .
LIZA CHAPEH, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
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-- f()r f iv e m i.n u te s .
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M R . F L h')
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T he d j.ch o to m y t h at e x is t s in
eTrepp icl #3et.ween 12#1e technoLogy that wa s th e sub1ect
o f t he C o n t2r ib l.lt if)n t

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Lq re em en t a nd t.h e mo st c la s s if e d
in f o rm a ti.o n re 1.a t in (q to th e t ecrh n o lo g y th a t 's a t th e
co r e o f t h is c a s e i.s t he p rob l6)m .
De c em b e r 1 9t h , J
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32 , J.n ()p e n co u rt , a s 1 o ng a s t 1ne
10
court is sealed and perhap s no one else other than
11
the deputy sherj f f, the clerk, and the court
12
repo rte r.
13
courtroom is sealed even during that p ha se .
00:14
1 th n k we 're safe there as long as the
Once we reach 2002, 1 th ink the C ou rt is
15
going ho have to cond uct some Lype of a procedure ,
16
and I 've been thinking all night what you could do ,
17
and the on ly thinq I can come up w ith , because of the
18
natu re o f this inform ation , is for you alone to take
19
Mr . Trepp and M r . Mon tgom ery into chamb ers with a
20
sworn con fidentia lity oath by your Honor , unde r oath ,
21
and hav e them basica lly explain what is involved .
22
oo:14
We cro u Ld p roce ed , (
E be 1 i.eve , up t o
14
G o ah e ad .
I th ink the Court will then see that it is
23
abso lutely im possib ke , given the nat ional securit y
24
interests involved, right now, this minutey today,
(775) 323-5492
00:14
00:14

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fo r t h e C o u rt t o e ve n is s ue an y ty p e o f an o rde r o r
findings , given thc! natu re o f the issue s Vnvolved ,
becau se 1 wou ld sublrit to the Cou rt that the national
security interests p reempt Judicial intervention in
this Co urt , and that 's a strong s tatem ent .
1 bel Eeve that the entire proceed ing s have
to ultimate ly go over to the Fede ral Court, be sealed
in the Federal Court, and even then how they are
going to be ab le to p roceed is fran kly a m ystery to
10
11
me , your Honor .
00:15
So here 's what 1 - - he re is w hat the
12
de fense re comm ends :
13
Decemb er '02 .
14
to the Cou rt w hich w ill basical ly outline th e
15
impending p rob lems .
16
Let the Pla intiff go fo rward to
I 've got a ch ronology that 1 can qive
00:16
Once we reach December '02
we 're going
17
i nt o t h e h ea r t o g c la s si f ied m a te r ia l .
At that
18
point : I don lt know how we can p roceed except fo r the
19
Court to t ake M r . Trepp and M r . Montgomery into
20
chamb ers and inquire into the natu re o f the m aterial .
21
THE COURT :
Well, let 's see how it goes .
22
My thought , and again, I 1m p robably the
23
least educated individual in the court room as far as
24
what this involves, but my thought is that we lre not
t.
O0:1b
LIZA CHAPEN, CCRZ RMR
(775) 323-5492
oo:t6

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.
16
h e r e n e c e s sa r i 1v tc) t a 1 k a b ()1.
1t t he c o n te n t o f
whatev er ''itu is, but the ownership and the right to
possess ion o f ''2t ,'' and so 2. t would seem to m e , and I
don 't know Lh is yet, but it would seem to m e that we
c a n ta l k a ho u t a 1 1 o f th o se is su e s a n d p e r h ap s m a ke a
determ inat ion on those issues w ithout even ta lking
about wha h the contents of ''it'' are, and if I 'm
w rong , then you can explain that to m e, and i f I
agree with yo u, then 1 agree w ith you .
10
11
12
So Y 'd like to go a head and give it a
oa:16
00:16
sho t .
Secondly , I w ould like to have some
13
reference to some case law , a s ta t u t o r y law , s om e
14
other author it g that says that -- that , o n e ,
15
ident ifies th is a s classified ; two , t e l l s u s w h a t
16
level o f class ificat ion tha t it has ; Lh ree , by whom ;
17
an d t he n som e k in d o f st at u t o r y c a se Y aw o r o t h e r
18
docum entation that wou ld tell us that it was not
19
proper for me to proceed , fo r us to p ro ceed in this
20
court , and if 1 'm persuaded that that 's right , t he n
21
certain ly 1 11 1 fo klow the ru les .
22
(
'
. .I
I 'm surp rised I hav en 't hea rd from the
23
federal governm ent y if they have such a conce rn , but
24
maybe you can add
ress that .
LIZA CHAPFN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
00:17
onttn

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t
M R . FLYNH :
secretive , and so compartmenta lzed w ithin the
fed e r a k go v e rn m tan l , th at th e re a r e v e ry f ew
ind ividuals w ith in the fede ral governm ent that have
a c c e ss to it .
n0:18
I w ill tell the Cou rt in open court what
is involved , invo qved daily br iefings to President
Bush ove r the la st two yea rs t da ily b riefkng s .
A nd w ith regard to your Honor 's other
10
p oint covering the ''ih'' w ithout gett ing in to the
11
content, the ''i t'' is the conte nt .
12
THE COUFT :
We '11 see .
13
MR . LOGAR :
Your Honor r we would like to
14
invoke the rulo as; 1:0 exclusion of witn esses for
15
sealing and everything we can do to p rotect the
16
integ rity o f these proceed inqs .
17
18
T H E C O URT :
M R . PEEK :
Hon or .
00:18
I d o n 't kn ow t he
He 's a w itness of ours , you r
He w ill shep out .
21
TH E COURT :
22
MR . PEEK :
23
THE COURT :
24
A l1 r iq h t .
o0:la
gentlem an se ated in the fron t row bac k the re .
19
20
IJ
Th ts in fo rm atio n is so
i.-
eo:18
A1l right .
1 don 't know who the other -And the other gentleman is my
1aw clerk. He will observe the order that I will
L1qZA CHA PEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

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m a ke h er e w i-t lQ !'e qcircl to co n fi(1e rAt ia l it y .
MR . PEEK ;
expe rt who wil l com e in, and 1 would like him , of
course , to sit in .
5
6
i think it 's approp riate to have an expert
MR . E'LYHN :
Your Honor, 1 thin k Mr . Frye ,
unless he 's the firsl. w itness, should be removed from
the court room .
10
MR . PEEK :
Your Honor, he 's a client .
11
H e 's a p r iv a t e c l ie n t .
12
compan y .
13
THE COUHT :
14
MR . PEF.K :
He can sta y .
Your Hono r, respectfully to
w hat coun sel had said earlier r I ta ke th at also to b e
16
that they wou ld at ke ast offer a st kpu kation that the
17
p ro c e e d in g s c o n clu ct e d h e re tod a y s th e a ff id a v it s th a t
18
h ave been previou sly subm itted under seal, and the
19
t ranscript of these proceed ing s m ay remain
20
confidential , and may be sealed by th is Court on ly to
21
be op ened upo n motion --
22
T HE CODRT :
23
M R . PEEK :
00:19
He 's a m em b e r m a na g e r o f th e
15
24
oa:19
Lo at least s it in on rebuttal, if necessary .
Your ilonor , we will have an
W ell --- and that nothing other than
t hat which is stated here today can go any farther,
(775) 323-5492
cQ:19
00:19

.....
w /..
19
1.
a nd I s a y hh a t '-- a IAd 1 'I

rt c u ri o us to h ea r co u n s e 1. 's
a rq um e n t , w h e n w e c e r ta i n ly , l a st W ed n e sd a y , he a r d
m uch ab outo
tech no logy to be c
ah le to sell my technolog yy'' and
if -- we bad , as ycu recall, mu ch ado about w hat the
ab ility w as to discuss w ith others , so 1 111 take that
as a st ipu lat i6n and 1 'd ask the Cou rt to ente r that
kind o f an ord er .
'11 neecj ho be ab le to talk ab out my
T dR COURT :
the record rig ht now and I will enter that orde r and
11
it is entered Lrt tte record .
12
Does that conta in , ror the moment v a l1 o f
13
the issues tha t you wanted to address w ith regard to
14
con fidentiatity?
A nd I would ask that , in add ition , that
16
you prep are some Uyp e of a stipu Lation that m eets the
17
conce rns you a rticulated a m inute ago , fi r st p r e sen t
18
it to the oth er sider present it to me , and then 1 '11
19
review it , and part icu larly, if you have re fe rence to
20
any statutory autho rity or anything else , p ut that in
21
the stipu lation and o rder , and 1 :11 take a loo k at it
22
and sig n it , mo re like ly than not , part icularly if
23
a11 sides -- if both side s approve .
24
MR . F'LYNN :
00:2n
We kk , T 'm happy to do th at on
10
15
We 're happy to do it , your
(775) 323-5492
00:20
00:20
00:20

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Ho n o r .
We w il l prepa re the stipu lation .
The
prob lem w ill beconzeo as you r Honor w ill hope fully be
able to lea rn during these p roceed ings , that even the
attorneys cannot be given access to this inform ation .
THE C.OURT :
Do you ha ve acces s to it?
MR . FLYNN :
1 hav e lim ited accessz enough
T H R C-G U RT :
Do yo u ha v e - -
10
M R . FLYNN :
Do I have com plete access?
12
13
14
15
16
THE OOURT :
Do you have a se cur ity
clearance o f anv knd?

M R . FL YNN :
Ho , and neither does -- do the
gent lemen on the othe r side o f the aisle .

M R . PE HK :
18
the material because the source code has been deleted
19
from our file and ta ken from our prem ise s .

THE COURT :
A11 righh .
Well, you know z I
21
don 't have enough information right yet to know -- to
22
m ake an in te lligent --
24
MR . PEEK :
:0:21
And , y our Honor , T don 't have
ac c e s s to t h e m a t e ri a l a nd I h a v e n o t h ad a c c e ss to
23
oa:21
Absolutely not .
17
20
u0:2l
to conduct the proceed ings .
11
1 will rev iew the st ipulation ,
your Honor --
(775) 323-5492
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MR . PEKH ;
-- and ma ke su re that it bsn 't
too overly broaci, Lqecause w hat f'm hea ring he re
today, 1 think, maybe too ove rly broad .
THE COUPT :
MR . PEF'
,K :
21
A l1 1:Lg h t .
We ll, w e 'll see .
09:22
W jth that in m ind, your Hono r,
Mr . Ja kop in w ilq be presenting the first w itness .
THE CO UHT :
A 1 l rtght .
Let 's go .
(The w itness was swo rn .)
10
THE COURT :
Plea se take the witness stand .
11
A s a p relim inary matter, fo r the reco rd r
12
not on ly are the part ies and counsel but court staffz
13
as we llz and 1 in czude m yself in this, are instructed
14
that anythng th at 's sa jd o r done here in this
15
cou rtroom tod ay , pend ing the subm ission and approval
16
of an order r is confidential and w ill not be
17
discussed with th ird parties o utside o f the
18
cou rtroom y ex cept to the extent that it needs to be
19
d iscussed w ith w itnesses and experts with regard
20
specifically to the pursuit of the p roceedinq s in
21
this particu lar case .
22
Go ahead .
23
M R . JA KOPIN :
24
(Discussion off the record .)
Did you swear the witne ss?
LIZA CHA PF'

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(775) 323-5492
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t.e s t i fi ed a s f'o 1 lows :
D IR KC T KXAM IN AT 1ON
B Y M R . JA KO P 1N :
Q.
Y o u r n ame , p 1 ea se .
A.
S 1o aIt %'e IRa b le s .
Q.
Wh e re do you r e si de ?
10
A.
1n t91e V ir g i n ia (2it y H iq h 1 an d s .
11
12
T H El R E PG RT ElR :
15
T H EI lI'1.N E S S :
Fir st nam e r S- 1-o -a - n ; 1 a sL
n am e - -
MR . IaOGA R :
Your Ho no r , 1 'm so r r y .
16
hav ing di f fi c u 1t)y h e a ri nq tle w it ne s s .
17
t he m i c rophon e , p le a s e .
1 'm
T H E CO URT :
19
W h y cto n 't; yo u t ry t o sp e a k up a n d t ry to
21
22
23
24
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C ou ld he use
18
20
W o 141 d yo u sp e l1 you r n ame
fo r m e , p 1e a s e .
13
14
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H o p e fu 1 1 y i t w o r k s .
u se the m icroph one .
no:za
W e h a d s om e d i ff ic u lt y w i th i.t 1a s t w e e k ;
.
i s i t wo r kin g n o w ?
T H E E$A IL 1(F F :
(Es th e b u t to n b e 1 o w yo u o n
.
the le ft-hand sde , on the gro und , is it on ?
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C a IA y :)u he a r frte ?
T H E i3A 1.f-.fP'F :
lo w , t r y i-t .
T H F CO LJRT :
T H E 1h1173N E S S :
La sl name r V-e-n-a-b-l-e-s .
Yes .
T he IAr i t s h o u ld b e w o r k ing .
O ka y .
T h er e w e (
7o .
Ho q ab o ut n ow ?
T HE C-Ot)R77: A ll rLght . Mr . Venab1es , ju st

t.r y t o sp e a k up a ) it.t le b i t , to o .
12
T H E W I13N ElS S :
A 1 1 r i gh t .
13
THE I3A IL IiMF:
You have a v olume control,
THE COURT :
16
THE W ITNFSS :
17
T H E CO U R T :
Ye ah , I t h in k t h at ls b a t te r .
18
MR . LOGAR :
T hat 's better .
19
MR . PEEK :
20
THE COURT :
22
23
24
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your Hono r, right up by your ow n spe aker .
15
21
00:23
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23
1 i t up ?
10
.- --- .-
A 11 righh .
H ow is that?
How ab out now?
Thank you , you r Honor .
O kay .
00:24
BY MR . JA KO PIN :
Q.
Can you desc ribe your edu cational
bac kground since h igh school?

A.
00:24
Since high school, I wen t to UC Berkeley
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Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 26 of 222 24

1
briefly , or for three years ; then

r
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d esign school , learned 3D m odeling a nd c omputer
programm inq ; artd s ince then , I 've bee n self-taught in
computer p rog ramm ing .
M R . JAKOPIN :
You r Honor , ou r exp ert is
outside and the bailiff is not pe
in .
8
9
into the court room and attend th

THE COURT :
and any exp ert for the other sid
12
one .
13
MR .
14
p resent tim e w your Honor .
15
FLYNN :
We object
I f11 a llow him r
e , to o , if you fve got
We have no expe rt at the
Under the documents that
n0:2s
dep artment of th
e U .S . Gov ernment
18
involved in this case , they would be p re cLuded from
19
confiding anyt hng to any exp e rt .
20
T HE COURT :
W elk
,
I 've got to see the
21
documents .
22
d o, I 'm going to p erm it him t o be here .
23
24
oo:zs
M r . Trepp and Mr . Montgom ery sLgned w ith the
17
rm it ting him to come
e p roceedings?
A 11 ri
ght .
11
16
:::24
Can we have perm issi

on to have h im come
10
f we nt to graphic
I 've got to see some authority .
MR.
FLYNN :
Unless I
No r has he been disc losed t
us , your Honor .
LIZA CHA PEN: CCR , RMR
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(775) 323-5492
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ab s en t b e t ng p t
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m a te r i a 1 .
M R - F1.YN N :
Y o u r' 5!on o r w i 11 n o t e m y
object.1on .
nO:2s
T FlE t!O IJRT :
G o a IRe tct.
MR . .7JhK()P1N :
13Y M R . JA KO P IN :
10
Q.
A l k rig h t .
1 L 's no t.e d .
'
T h a n k y ou , you r H o n o r .
C a n yo u d e s c r ib e yo u r em p 1o ym en t f ro m th e
11
time you finished schooling up un ti ) eT repp id ,
12
b rie fly .
13
A.
00:2s
l w orkecl most recently before eT repp id fo r
11
abouh ten years in the video gam e industry ma king
15
computer qam es from the PC platform .
16
was a 3-D modeler and then later on as a programmer .
17
T 11F: (OC)(1RT :
.-
lnitially , I
00:26
My most recent job before coming to
18
eTrepp id r 1 wa s a lead p rogrammer on the last couple
19
o f v ideo game s m ade for electronic ca rds .
20
Q.
And you began working at eTreppid when?
21
A.
In Decemb er of '99 .
22
Q.
A nd were you one o f the first emp loyees?
23
A.
Th at 's correct .
24
Q.
W ho was w orking there at the time you
(775) 323-5492
no:26

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A.
De rl:1i s 2.
1o n tCJo(rte ry ; iiF; so n r B r i.a n
M on t go m e ry ; a r'i t he y ha d t h ree co n t 1'a c t o r ind ia n
n at i on a 1.s Uh a tz ztre no 1on (Je r tile re .
5
6
7
8
9
Q.
A n d wh e n you L)e (
gan , w h a t p o s it io n d id y o u
h av e w it h th e .
:romp an y ?
A.
1 w a :; jn i t.ia 1 ly h i.r ed t o b e a d i re ct o r o f
g am e de ve lopme nt).
11
that I develop E?tl on my own with me and sub licensed it
12
to eT reppid an :y continued further development o n it
13
for a gam e tha l: we wou id someday release from th e
14
company .
16
17
Q.
1) b ro ug h t m '
g v ide o ga me te ch n o lo g )fr
So when you worked at eTrepp id , then what
00:26
00:27
did you do?

A.
G r a d u a ll y t oo k o n m o re t a s k s s b e g an d o in g
18
a11 the IT wor k for the company, a11 the e-mail , the
19
W EBSERV ER , al1 the ne twork infrastructure , g radually
20
too k on al1 the hardware p urch asing v a1l the ha rdwa re
21
development .
22
u::26
ye a r t ha t I w o i:')2ecl t)h e re .
10
15
The y' were just bri.ef1.y t.h ere the first.
M os t: recently, in the p ast two years, I 've
23
taken on the role of our fac il ity security office r.
24
I maintain al1 of the security c tearances and the
LIZA C1.IAPi''
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electronic inform at ion, correct?

A.
Tha t:'s riqht .
Q.
Cou kd you describe some o f the d ifferen h
types of info rlnaton that is stored ah the company
prem ises?
A.
We have , first o f atl, the sou rce code ,
10
files that is compled into an actual runab le
11
program ; a1l o g the too ls that we use to develop the
12
source code , wh icb is usually th krd -party software ,
13
Microsoft deve Loped prog ram s; a lso a11 the other
14
th ird -party softw are that we use , the operat ing
15
system s, other tocls fo r developing .
sample files that we use to run our code on ; images ,
18
m ovies , bit m ap s , all kinds o f file s .
19
Q.
classified files , and there 's ohhe r file s that are
21
not?
24
00:28
A re there certa in f iles that are
20
23
oa:za
So a l1 that stuff is stored , as well as
17
22
0:.27
which is a -- basically , sou rce cord is a 1ot of text
16
You wolk with a 1ot o f different kind o f
27
fac i 1.it y s e cu r it.y c )e a r an ce s a nd p ro c ed u re s .
2
3
!.v
A.
That 's correct , based on where the con tent
cam e from and who we received it from .
Usually, a source code isn 't classified .
L1ZA CHAPENt CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
00:28

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so u r ce c o d e s f b tlt tln(? b it m arn i.ma g e s o r fr am e s o f
p.
i.c t u re s ilav e b ()e n c 1a ss if i.ed .
Q.
c e r ta in o n e s ?
oo:29
A.
T h a t 's co r rec t .
Q.
Wh e n y c)u sa y t he eT rep p i d s o u rc e co d e ,
9
10
w h at a re y ou r e fe z'r.t:1g to ?
A.
T h e Elc tu a 1 C ++ fi le s th a t a r e u s e d to b e
comp i.1ed 5.nt o t #1e so ft.wa r e we deve 1op .
11
Q.
A nd w h c) w r te s t #1at sour ce c o de ?
12
A.
V a r i o u s; (3ro g rafrkm e r s in t h e b u i1d in (

g.
13
Q.
H a v e yc)u w r1.tt en some o f th a t so u rce c ode '?
14
A.
N o t 13o 1' a w h i 1e .
15
The last stuff I wo rked o n was about 2002 .
16
1 worked on a player that we developed for a project
17
w ith Inte l .
18
19
21
22
23
24
oa:29
:0:29
I 'v e also worked on the game engine over

the years that we developed .
20
That would not be a 11 images, but just
we haven 't had any c lassified
'
So far
O the r than that, I haven 't .
Q.
A re you responsible for b acking up any
inform ation at the company?

A.
I bac k up al1 of ou r serv ers that run a 1l
of our infrastructure, our e-mail, our web sites, but
(775) 323-5492
Qo:29
j
...-y)
!
1 d o n 't d o a n y C)f t h e so u rc c) c 0d e b a c kup ; t h a t w a s
a 11 M r . Mont(
gom (?rj:'54 job .
Q.
A nd hob
n' lo n() h av e y (3u b ee n d o in g t 14a t ?
A.
P re Lt. y rnu(:h fr(?m t h e 17eg in n in g ; t he pa st
00:30
Q.
A nd why do you bac k up tha t info rmation?
A.
Hardwa re always faiis .
You 've g oL to have
a ba ckup so you can recover from it .
I haven 'h iost a file since we 've been in
10
existence .
11
overheating or what have you , n'echan ical fa ilure r so
12
bf you don 't have bac kups , you won 't be ab le to
13
recove r from it .
14
Q.
Ha rdw are a lways tends to fail from
company bac ked up its source co de fo r the sam e
16
rea son ?
17
A.
Right .
18
Q.
Up untjl recently , had the company ever
oo:3a
lost a ny o f the source code ?
20
A.
Not to my know ledge .
21
Q.
Is the re anyone othe r hhan M r . M ontomery
22
00:30
Now , is it you r unde rstanding hhat the
15
19
29
s i)( y e a r s .
('
..
p
0o:a0
tha t was resp on sib le for backinq up the sou rce code?
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
For how long had he been responsible for
L IZA CHAPEN , CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

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backing up the so urce codo ?
A.
F roln the be (
7n n i ng .
Q.
W a s le a 1s o r e sp on s Lb 1e fo r m a in t a in incl
th e so u rce c o de ?
A.
A s fa r a s 1 kn o w , t IRa t wa s i
4is job .
Q.
H ow hra s i t ma i.n ta in e d '?
A.
We hav.
2 a st ru c t ure . a f i le s y s tem
s tr u c tu re o n o I.1r. se rv e r w he r e w e ke p t it f a nd it
st o r e d v a r ou s m e th od s u n de rn ea th Lh e - - o u r fo l d er
10
stru ctu re .
11
aoi3l
We have our cucrent pcojects. Each
12
project had a sub fozder.
13
of -- a11 the proq rammers in the buildinq have
14
locations where only they can acce ss and store ther
15
projects.
We also have a subsystem
o:;l
16
So al1 this file structure is a11 stored
17
on one of ou r servers that Mr . M o n tg om e r y b a c k ed up
18
to another set of m achines in ou r sep arate lo cation .
19
20
Q.
Wa s the re a name for that serv er that yo u
were just talking about?
21
A.
22
SRC , S-E-R-V -E-R .
23
Q.
ao:31
We call it the sou rce server , abbreviated
W ho had access to th e source code that was
f'
21
90:3l
on tha t SRC SERVER'

?
(775) 323-5492
T
x
.
1
t
A.
.-
--
f )
'.
. ..
W e lna V e d if fe re !At le ve 1s o f a c ce s s -
been ko cked that'

.
on ky have -- i be lieve , five or skx
p eople had the key to .
The physicat access , it 's in a room that 's
Log-on access , only M r . Montgome ry and L
Netwo rk access , va rious p rogramm ers in the
bu ild ing had ciifferent file -share lev el permissions
to the fo lders, but none of them had a fu ll access --
10
full pe rm issicns to the file levels under network
11
sharing ; they h ad modified , which means they can add
12
but they can 't de Lete .
13
14
0a:32
Fu ll access leve l was only fo r

M r . M o n t go m e ry an d m e ,
15
Q.
And hcw was that put into p lace ?
16
A.
We had an Eff, what we call ou r eTreppid
17
adm kn ist rator accoun t , wh ieh on vy M r . Montgom ery and
18
I had the passw ord for .
19
00:32
Only w ith that u ser account that you could
20
get on and log on and change these pe rm issions ;
21
otherwise , you have to go through the networking and
22
you 're subject to all the permissions that we 've set
23
up .
24
00:32
had the password to it .
.-
Q.
W as there a server othe r than the
(775) 323-5492
cc132
.
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1
p
32
E;RC SE RV EIR th a t yo u w e re re fe rr ing to ?

A.
W e ha d a n o th e r se rv e r, a c o u p l e -- w e l lf
w e h a v e s e v e ra 1 s er ve r s in th e b u i ld i ng ; no t a 1 l of
them u s e o u r s otzrc:e crod e .
t ha t r u n th e iIRfr as t.r uc t ur e of o u c n e tw o r k .
F,-m dhi L se r ve r s
sf
arv e r s
We have another server for sto ring a1l the
th ird-party tools that we do , and anothe r server that
1 had recently set up , in the past four months, tha t
w as used for a backup to tho SRCSFRVFR .
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
f
r'-1
Q.
Did all of these se rvers get accessed w ith
aa:33
:0:33
the eT reppid administrator password?

A.
A1l the servers are only logged on w ith
the eT reppid administrator account , that 's right .
Q.
And jt was only the two of you that had
a c ce s s t o a 11 o 17 th o s e ?
A.
That 's right .
oo:aa
Not even Mr . Trepp knew the
p a s sw o rd t o t h e a dm i n i st ra t o r a cc o u nt .
Q.
About how large were the total eTreppid
source cod e files?

A.
W ell, from my recollec tion of do ing a
21
b ackup som e tim e back , and also l d id another backup
22
in the m iddle of December, it was about 200 gigab ytes
23
on the SRC SERVER tha t was copied over to my other
24
backup server which I call an ISASERVER .
(775) 323-5492
on:33
X
l
!
Q.
--
- ..-
''
'='
2.
3?
And how la rge is the memo ry capacity o f
t he ISA S FR V ER ?
A.
We llr tho actu al m emory i.s separate from
the hard drive space .
have about one Lo two gigab ytes o f memory , but that 's
just random access memory.
There 's -- a1 1 o f our servers
The hard drive space on the SRCSERV ER is
about -- just shy of three terabytes. My ISASERVER
is just over fouz terabytes, but we weren't ussng
10
anywhe re near the capacity on e ith er one o f those .
11
Q.
that had been used for backtng up th e eT repp id source
13
code?
A.
in our wa reho use axea that had , ea ch of them ,
16
attached storag e box , what w e call RA ID sto rage box .
17
E ac h o f t ho s e s to r ed ab o u t 1 .7 , 1 . 8 t e ra b y t e s .
19
0::34
T hose are used to back up wha t was on

SRCSERV ER .
20
21
aoLiq
1 bu Llt tw o wo rk station s that we kep t out
15
18
oa:34
You had mentioned some other wo rk stat ions
12
14
- --
Those backup s were made b y Mr . M ontgom ery

on a regular basis .
22
Q.
A s o fr say, around Decemb er 2 1st , 2005 --
23
A.
Uh-huh .
24
Q.
-- what wa s your understanding of where
LIZA CHAPENr CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
oo:ab
w.
34
c omp le te c op ie s o 1' t h e so u rc e c o (:1e ex is 1ued a t
eT repp id?
A.
A s Fc
ar as I know , there was the comp lete
original copy on the SRCSERVER , as well as copies on
each o f these two work sta tions tn ou r w arehouse .
6
7
had cop ie s of a ll the hard drkve s o f alY the
p rogrammers in the building .

Thoset were cop Le s m ade by M r . Mon tgomery
10
on a fairly regu lar basis .
11
pretty often , mu ltip le tkme s a week over the past
12
s e v e ra l y e a r s .
13
14
15
16
17
Q.
1 had se en him doing it
o0:3s
You had Aent ioned an IGASERV ER ; was tt
also sto red there ?

A.
Up unt l December 2 1st ,
that was just n
eQ:a6
testing .
On De c tam be r 2 1 st , I m a d e a c o p y o f
18
eve rything on SRCSERVER .
19
December 22nd for the holidays , I went ou t of the
20
countryz and I sta rted copies , part o f them comp leted
21
b efore I left on the 2 1st .
22
on:3s
The work stations in the warehouse also
(x.
x
I was go ing on a trip on
I was there until about 1 1:00 o 'clock on
23
the night of the 21st finish ing up th e copie s , and
24
w hen I left some o f them we re still going .
(775) 323-5492
00:36
(x
1
$
that they had completed , so ( had backed up
eve ryth inq frorn SRCSF,RVKR over to th is TSASKRVZR .
Q.
fin ished ?
A.
10
11
A nd did your 1og te ll, say, w hen that

00:36
Some o f them fin fshed the n ight of the
21st; som e finishod the next day, the 22nd .
' 35
Bu t ny 1oq files , when I got back, showed
(m
A1 l Lhe 1()g fj le55 a ren 't there anymore;
th ere 's o nly a couple left .
Some of them were
deleted .
00:a6
Q.
Do you have any reason to th in k that if it
12
d id n lt occur the wa y you had p rogramm ed it to , that
13
it wouldn 't have been comp lete ly backed up ?
14
MR. FLYNN: Objection, your Honor.
15
THR COURT: What 's Lhe objection?
16
M R . EPLYNN :
None of this testim ony -- the
17
entire co urse of the testimony so far has been
18
utterly lacking in foundation .
19
T HE CO URT :
W ell, 1 thin k there --
20
MR . FLYNN :
I 'd move to strike a l1 o f the
21
test im on y , but l 'm trying to cut through it , so I
22
don 't want to keep objecting because I believe I've
23
got a w ay to cut through and across --
24
TH E CO URT :
00:37
A 11 right .
Tu(
EZA Ci1APHN, C(
7Rr RMR
Well - -
(775) 323-5492
00:37

'
t--)
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l
M R . 1'L Y H H :
- - b 11t n (3n e (7f t h i s h a s a n y
T H R (2O tlHT :
A 1 1 r i(
ght .
U n L i l I 1e a rn a
li.t tl '
a b it Irto re a b o u t th e b a c kg ro u nd , i t 's ha rd fo r
m e to ev a lua t e th :1t .
oo:37
M R . IrL Y N 19:
TH E C-OLlRT : T here 's not. a jury lqe re r so
36
fo un d .
at io n .
1 und e rs ta n d th a t'
..
I 'm (
gd
3ing t.o a t1ow t he t e st imon y .
G o a11e ad r s i-r .
10
T H E W 18AN E S S :
Wh a t w a s t h e qu e s t i on ?
11
M R . kJA KO P YN :
i t h in k you fi.n is h ed .
12
I think it wa s ju st an ob jection afhe r the
13
T ilE (2O :1RT :
A 11 r ig h t .
Fo r t he r e c o r d ,
l5
the o'
.
ojec t.ion is c)verru1ed .
16
fou nd'
at io n t o wh a h u 1t j.m at e ly w e fre g o i n (
g to g e t to .
l7
18
S e em s t o b e
1 think t.his is
on:37
a t a n y r a t e , a s 1. e a s t. a s o f
now .
19
Go ahead .
20
BY MR . JAKO PIN :
21
Q.
:o:3a
Could you describe how the programmers
22
have th eir wo rk stations configured and how they
23
relate to the SRCSERVER ?
24
oo:3-/
co n c1 .2s io n .
l4
tl
''
A.
The prog rammers have a ha rd drive on their
LIZA CHAPEN, CCR , RMR
(775) 323-5492
(.
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-.- -
- .- ..- .-
(''.T'
.
37
ma c 14i ne o u t s id e c.f the i r re qu 1 a r o p e r at ing s y s Le m
ha rd d rjve tha t 's kept on there .
Current Source was tor the projects Lhey 're currently
wo r k o n .
Their folder ca lled
Th at Current Source folder conta ins their
working in progress and the projects that they 're
cu rrently proq ramm ing on .
by Dennis over t:o the two work stations we keep in
our wa rehou se fo r bac king those up .
10
Q.
11
stations?
12
A.
13
p urposes .
15
Q.
17
Those folders a'

re copied
And c1o the programm ers have personal work
ooraa
Eve ry programm er has at least one .
Whac 's the operating system on the work
00:38
sta tions that they have?

A.
18
W ind ows XP , on the majo rity .

There 's a few that have W indow s 2000 for
19
testing , and then they were p rog ramm ing with some
20
older code th at wou ldn 't compi le on w indow s X P .
21
00:3:
Som e of them have two for te st ing
14
16
Q.
Directing your attention to the last day
22
that you w ere at the office be fore you went on you r
23
vacation .
24
A.
Uh -huh .
(775) 323-5492
oo:aa
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('-.?f'
448)
Q.
C a 11 y o u d e sc r ib e wh at h ap p en e d th a t d ay ?
A.
( c am e i n tha t d ay .
3
4
A t tlte L7e (
g tnn in(J o f t.h e d a y , 1 c a 1.1e d a s L
.
w a s c o m j.n g in f:)r som e re a so n , 1 fo rg e t w h a t i.t was .
1 c a 1l ed Den n is an (2i h e a s k ed m e i f I 'd
g o t te n a 1l m y (7re y'a r a t ion rea d '

g fo r m y t r i p a n d 1
sa id no , and h e said !
' ''We11 r stay home and do your
pac king or w hatever ,'' and I to ld h im I w as almo st to
the office anyway , so I w as com ing in .
get the IGASERVER fin ished sett ing -- setting up and
11
do ing the backups .
do ing the backup s of SRCSERVER and also our
14
DE V S E R VE R .
So I came in and 1 got m y stuff arranged
16
in m y office ancl 1 went out to Lhe wa rehouse , a n d
17
th at 's when I not iced that the w ork -- one o f the
18
wo rk stations that had the RA ID box attached to it
19
was gone y and I asked Denn is where it wa s .
20
21
22
23
24
cq:39
W e had talked abouh setting the 15A up fo r
13
15
00:39
I wanted to
10
12
T his was one o f the one s that he u sed for
b ac king up the SRCSERVER .

And he said he 'd taken it hom e , and he
didn 't te ll me why .
And so then the rest o f th e day I spent
(775) 323-5492
oo:ag
00:40
hY
1
(
And the next mo rn ing , I le ft on m y trip to
Budapest .
Q.
You we re gone untl when?
A.
I qot. bac k the late n Lght. o f the 2nd ,
Q.
And cti you at some point go bac k to the
o ffice?
MR . LOGA R :
10
I 'm so rry .
11
Could you speak up , please .

00:40
HY MR . JAKO PIN :
12
Q.
At some po int did you go b ack to the
14
A.
The mo rn ing o f the 3rd , I came to work.
15
Q.
What d id you discover then ?
16
A.
When 1 got into the o ffice , I no ticed
13
office?
17
that -- m y o ff Lce is situated right next to our
18
server room with the door so 1 can see th rough to m y
19
servers, and I noticed that somebody had been doing
20
som eth ing on our SRCSERVER .
21
cn:4o
January 2nd .
7
8
99
se t t in g u p t h e 1S.
AS F RV E R a n d rlJn IRin (; t IAe b a c ku p s .
l 'Y
00:40
A nd so I went over and looked at it and
22
there was a comm and prompt window up do ing som ething
23
wh ich I didn 't know what it wa s, and Dennis cam e in
24
at that p oint and 1 a sked him what h e was doing and
L1ZA CHAPE1.1, CCRr RMR
n0:4o
(775) 323-5492
C.
I
(=--e
).
4o
h e s a id h e w a s d ()i!1C
J som e c 1.ea n - u p w f)r k , g e t ti ng ri d
o f o ld s t u f f w e (1(jrR't nt?e (1 a n ymo re .
S;o th q,11 I b e 1ie v e o n e o f o u r e mp lo ye e s ,
Jim Baude r , came L!) a t tha t po nt and st a rted talki ng
t.o m e 1 i ke h e u su a 1 1y d oe s ea c h mo rn 1 ng , a nd Den n is
1e f t .
So then I started going over the SRCSERVER
and noticed that m ost of ou r sub fo lde rs on that -- on
our source RATD box had been all deleted out .
10
Q.
What d kci you do then ?
11
A.
T w e nt t o q o t oo k on m y b ac kup se r v er ,
ISA SERVER .
13
and keyboard , so just do a command to switch over
14
to the next com puter, and that ma ch ine wa s totally
15
loc ked up .
16
resp onding at a Ll .
The y 're al1 attached to the same monitor
1) c ou )drt't Lo q o rt to it .
T.t. w a sn 't
cc:4t
S o t he n I w en t b a c k to m y de s k a nd tr ie d
18
to loo k at that mach ine through the netw ork and I
19
could see the ISA box was respond ing , that ISA 'S RA ID
20
was resp onding through the netw ork and it a lso had
21
been com p letely deleted out .
22
Q.
Did you ask M r . M ontgom ery about this?
23
A.
R ight away -- 1 th in k 1 talked to some
24
00:4l
no:41
12
17
other peop le
r
asked what happened w hile I was gone ,
(775) 323-5192
oo:4a
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zy
.
.
and hhey said strange stu ff had been go ing on .
h a d b e e n g ra d u .
it11 k' )e tng d e le t ed .
The n
Stuff
l w e n t o ut t o t h e w a reh o u se to a s k
h im a b o ut it a nd ( a s ked h int w he re th e b a c ku p w a s a n d
h e said he wa s br ingjng that -- the b ackup work
stat ion w jth the RAID box from our warehouse , that he
w as bringing it back , he wa s done w ith it or
something like that .
9
G RCSERVEB .
11
something to that effect .
He sad he d idn 't: do an ything or
12
Q.
Wha t happened the rest o f that wee k?
13
A.
l was; going over the m achines, assessing
14
w hat the damages weue while 1 was gone .
15
to get 1SA bac k up, realized that one -- som ething
16
had happened to it .
00:42
I was tryinq
o0:4a
rt h ad b e e n w o r k j. n g in m y o f fi ce f o r a
18
good three m onths before 1 put it into its permanent
19
location , so I figured something was -- som ething had
20
hap pened to it wh l
ile i was gone , e ither m alfunct ion
21
or sabotage .
22
00:12
Bu t he neve r told me what happened on the
10
17
zgg
A lso , 1 sharted asking a 11 the p eop le in
23
the bu ild ing what had been going on , and they told m e
24
that Dennis had deleted a11 the code off their
LTZA CIIAPEINr CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
00:43
.,
m achines while g was gone , and that he was
gradua lly -- just qiving them libtle bits and pieces
to work on .
4
5
strike .
Hea rsay : speculation
lacks foundation .
He's just guessing .
T HE CO URT :
it is hearsay ; 1 wjll sustain tt .
10
42
MR. FLYNN : Objectiony your Honor; move to
9
Hono r .
12
of the m atter ?
13
it .
14
It's just foundational, your
It 's not --
THR COURT :
00:13
It 's not o ffered for the truth
1 th jnk it is .
T HE W F fNESS :
Cm going to sustain
That w as a short wee k , s o
15
that wa s abo ut a11 that happened that week , I
16
believe .
17
00:d3
1 think as to hearsay , it 's - -
MR . JAKOPIN :
11
on:4a
W e w e re a ls o p rep a r in g -- w e h ad a . fo r
18
our fac ilities secu rlty clearance , we h ad our
19
inspect ion schedu led for -- 1 believe the 9th .
20
('%g,
We had our rep resentative fo r the De fense
21
Security Serv ice com ing on the 9th , s o 1 w a s
22
prepa ring our facility security docum en ts for that
23
visit .
24
BY MR . JAKOPIN :
LIZA CHA PFN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
00:44
....)
1.
1
Q.
4a
W h a t: h .tr)p e ne d t h () w e e k , 1 g ue s s , b eg i.n n in g
January 9th ?
A.
W el L, on the 8th , which is a Sunday z
Mr . T repp called me at home and a sked me if an yth ing
un u s ua l h a d b e en hap p e n in q , an d I t o ld h im th a t w h e n
1 got bac k from my t rip Lhat a ll the code on our
SRCSERV ER had been deleted off.
So he asked me to come in ea rly the next
day to ta lk ab out it, and asked M r . Montgom ery whah
10
was going on .
11
00:44
12
o n ly t he r e fo r '
ti /:e a n h o ur or tw o a n d h e le f t a nd
13
never c am e b ac k for the re st o f Lhe day .

So that day we started loo kinq around the
15
bu ilding to see what e lse was m issing , and we had
16
basica lly everyone in the building going through
17
st u f f .
18
19
20
on:45
He sa id he wa s coming b ack but he never

came -- M r . Montgomery never cam e back .
So we spent m ost of the night -- 1 was
21
also gett ing ready for m y visits on the 10th .
22
Jay Dixon from the Defense Security Service there
23
first th in g in the m orning .
24
00:44
When 1 got in that day, Mr . Montgom ery was
14
(w)
I had
And also when I got there that morning --
(775) 323-5492
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I c a 1 1ed be f o r (? 1 c an1e to t 91() 0 f fi.ce , a n d De n n is sa .

i.d
he w a s g o j.ng t o b 6. 1:he re wh (?n t g o t t he r e .
(E a s 4:e d if he w a s g o in g to b e tn th a t. da y .
He sa id , ''1 l 1 L)e the re whe rl y o u qe t. t he re .''
W h e n I (Jo t t h e re , h e w a s o u t in th e
warehou se with Mr . Trepp and a friend of M r . T repp 's ,
ye l li ng a t h im , o b sc e n it ie s , g o i ng th ro u g h th e
warehou se out the back door , and he got in his Lruc k
a nd d ro v e aw a y .
10
W e spent the re st o f that day m eeting with
11
Jay Dixon, explaininq to hm that we had major chaos
12
going on and personne l prob kem s, and he basically
13
to ld us that w e 've got to go t hrough a bunch of
14
p rocedu re s fo r -- we also -- p rocedures fo r
15
determ ining wh at happened .
16
p o ss ib le t ha t De n n i s Mo n t go m e r y h ad t a ke n o r sho w n
18
som e of our c lassified m ate rial to foreign nationals ,
19
so I started that nvestigation on w hat happened w ith
20
that situat ion .
MR . FLYNN:
0::46
Your Honor, objection; move to
strike , specu lation .
23
24
oo:qs
00:46
17
22
ou:4s
We also determ ined that possib le -- it was
21
--
--
A nd can we have the identity of the peop le
present?
He keeps saying ''we .''
LIZA CIIAPFulh
l, CCRr RMR
(775) 323-5492

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T h e reh's b ee n n o 1o u IAd a t io n as t o w lno W a s
presenh on -- in an y of these conve rsations o r
c i rc um st a nc e s , an d th e la s t p a rt o f t h e te st im on y w a s
just rank hearsay and speculation and lacks -- lacked
foundation .
03:46
TH E COURT :
W ell , 1 thin k he 's simp ly
rec iting even ts that took p lace to show what h is
conduct and state o f m ind were a t th e t ime .
going to overrule the objection.
10
11
13
THE W ITNESS :
15
T HE WITNESS :
Do you want me to
Yeah .
A 1 L the emp loyees in the
W e w er e -- l 'd s ay J e s s ie A n d e rs on , J im
Bauder .
I can list a11 the peop le that wo rked for
20
the com pan y .
21
through the hard d riv es in our wa rehouse , going over
22
v ideo -- ou r -- w e went to check our surveillance ,
23
M r . Trepp and m yself d id that , chec k ou r surveillance
24
00:47
b uilding, as a group .
17
19
The ''we''?
say it?
THE COURT :
18
00:47
identify w ho the ''w e'' is .
14
16
I 'm
lt wou ld be appropriate , how ever , to
12
(
'
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lt was -- the whole com pany was going
video cam eras, which had al1 been deleted .
(775) 323-5492
00:47
(-.-)
l
W e nc)t ic ed th a t o n t.he 1.0 t h , a s w e 11 .
I can 't rem ember al ) the -- Patty G ray
w a sn 't th e re t h a t d a y , o r m a yb e -- no , s h e w a sn 't .
Len G lcgaue r .
Eve rybody in the bu ild ing b esides Patty
G ray and Denn is Mcntgomery were there , a l1 the
emp loyees , wh ich I 'm su re they can give you a list
of .
10
THE COURT :
A l1 rig ht .
A re those names
you 've given us the ones you reca ll right now?

THE W ITNF,SS :
12
T H E C OU R T :
13
BY MR . JAKOPLN :
14
Q.
A.
A 1 1 r ig h t .
G o ah e a d .
Did you have any discussions w ith

n0:4:
O the r than he as ked m e -- I didn 't ca ll
17
h im o ve r th e w e e ke nd t o g o t ra p sh o o t i ng l i ke w e
18
usually do .
19
trip .
I said 1 just wanted to relax after the
That was about it .
20
Q.
Anything else that d ay ?
21
A.
The 9th , no .
22
23
24
00:47
Uh-huh .
Mr . Montgom ery on Monday the 9th ?
16
00:47
They we re a11 p resent .
11
15
46
1-
The 10th, we d id .
Q.
What happ ened on the 10th , in term s o f
conversations?
LIZA CHAPFN, CCR r RMR
(775) 323-5492
00:4*
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T he 10 trh w a s t h e mo 1'n ing w IRe n L h e ch a o s i n
th e w a re h o u s e t3e tw e en h im and M r . T re p p w a s g o in (
J on .
L a t(nr f)n , L c a llect -'- M r . 'Pre pp a s k ed me
to c a l1 14iIn t o coIne h ac k to thC? o f fi c e to t a 1 k t o u s .
and De n n 1 s c alzr(.
t b,
uc k a nd h e wen t .
i.n t c) D e nn i s ' - -
Wa r re n 's o 2'f icfa a rd the y ta 1 ked p r iva t e ly .
7
8
I a s ked h im w htat. b
aa s g o .
i.n g on y a nd h e s a id t h at
Warren was try ing to screw him out of money for
10
years , he hadn 't been paying h im prope rly fo r h is
11
sou rce co de , ancl he said --
have, our'' -- ''tlhis classified project that was of
14
extreme impo rtance?''
15
And he said that if the com pany wanted it ,
19
A n d th en h e le ft an d h e n e v e r c a m e b a c k to
the b uilding since .
Q.
You had m ent ioned be fore that th e company
20
had a sec urity system with cam eras .
21
Coultl you describe that?
22
00:49
they had to g ive him bjg money .
17
18
00:49
1 said, ''What about this latest project we
13
16
00:4a
A nd t he n De nn i s came o v e r t:o ray o f fi c e a nd
12
(T
.- <
A.
W e dve got abou t 16 cameras in ou r
23
build ing , and last summer we in stalled -- w e
24
orig inally had maybe 12 .
We in stalled different
(775) 323-5492
00:49
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. ...
cam e ras o n th e roof and we ran a 11 the feed s for
these cam eras out to ou r warehouse a rea , the area
whe re Dennis usua Lly works , antj we set up 16 work
sta tions, one work statio n for each came ra y and they
d ig itally recorded all the footage com tng o ff of
t he s e ca m e r a s .
Denn bs maintained it; I d idn ft .
m y only invo lvem ent wa s o riginal fy setting up the
hardware .
After thaty he ma intained a1l the actual
10
record ing and ma intenance o f these machine s .
11
h is son .
13
11
He and
oa:so
I don 't know , Jessie might h ave had som e

involvem ent .
Q.
I don 't know .
And you had m ent toned that you and
1$
Mr . Trepp had gone and looked at what w as sto red on
16
that video system?
17
O0:sn
I had --
12
.- -.-..-
A.
00:50
A b o u t n o on on th e 1 0t h , w e w e n t a n d l o o ke d
18
on the -- a11 o f those hard d rives fo r those
19
rec ording machine s had been cieaned o ff .
20
modifiecl date on the folders for reco rd inq was the --
21
between 8 :00 and 9:00 in th e m orning on the 9th , so
22
for that -- for those m od ified dates , it m eans th at
23
tho se fo lders -- the last t im e someth ing wa s on those
24
folders was betw een 8 :00 and 9 :00 a .m . in th e morning
LIZA CHAE'EN , CCR r RMR
The last
(775) 323-5492
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A ft i
ar th a t , it h a d h ee n d e le t ed o f f .
Q.
Does e7'reppid have an a la rm system ?
A.
Yes , wt do y ma intained by ATD .
Q.
Cou Ld you describe that?
A.
We rve on ly got -- I believe there was five
codes fo r the aia rm prio r to Lhe -- prio r to this
incident .
9
10
Patty ha one , and 1 believe Jessie Anderson and J im
11
Bauder shared one ; and only th ose people could tu rn
12
off the alarm to come in the b uilding at any time
13
they wan ted Lo .
15
ooisl
Barjinder Ba1 probably had one; 1fm not

s u re .
aotsl
16
1 hacl an o1d list o f who had what ala rm
17
codes from 2002, so I don 't know w hat the -- when we
18
m oved in lo the b uild ing, f don 't know what had
19
been -- changes m ade since then .
20
Q.
21
alarm on and off?
22
oO:s1
Dennis had one , Warren had one, I had one :
14
j-wqyr
A.
Can y ou tell by those codes who turned the
Each user, from m y file , which is the
23
Nov ember of 2002 , that I got from Dennis, it had user
24
numbers Eor each code .
LIZA CHAPRN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
oo:sl
)....
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Go , gor examp ze , I thin k I wa s User
N o . 12 , De n n is w a 55 U se r N o . l3 , a nd t he A T D A l a rm
lo(gs wh ic h we rfac i)ive d s how s wh a L u s e r n umb e r c afne in
and w hat hours f which one set the a la rm , which one
t u rn e d th e a la rm o f f .
6
7
8
9
10
Q.
oo:sz
Cou ld you te ll -- is a report generated of
th o s e c o d e s ?
A.
Right .
AT D keeps tho se and we geL them by
request .
Q.
Did ycu request a rep ort for who was in
11
and out of the bu ilding on the w eekend o f J anuary 7th
12
an d 8 th ?
13
A.
Yes , w e did .
checked -- we reset th e ala rm codes on the bu ild ing
15
on the 10th .
16
and we added new codes for just a smaller group of
17
p e op le , a n d w e a l so g o t t h e lo g a nd 5% sh o w e d t h e 7 t h
18
and the 8th weekend , User No . 13, wh ich is Dennis , is
19
the only one that cam e in the bu ilding .
Q.
21
22
23
24
We had AT D come out and reset the codes
Let me ask you a few quest ions .

You had ta lked about e-ma ils .
Were there
any e-m ails th at we re deleted at the com pan y?

A.
00:52
I requested it when 1
14
20
('
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W ell , I do n 't know about everybody r but I
know in pa rticu La r 1 ran recovery so ftware on a
(775) 323-5492
o0:s2
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.
(wy'
e
jj1
1o t. - - wda ra n re c(nve ry so f tkia re s ta r t inci o n t he 10 th
to try to recover deleted file s on eve rybody 's
machines .
A n d a 1 1 t he p ro g ram m e r s f w o r k s t a t io n s h a d
a wipe a ad delete prog ram , which is a prog ram used to
wipe off sp ace on the hard clrive .
them to Xecla ssify' hard d rives .
every sp ace on the hard drives .
T he m ilitary uses
It w ipes zeroes
10
run -- h ad this w ipe and delete program run on al1 of
11
them , so nothing was able to be recov ered from any o f
12
t h o se .
station and they had wipe and de lete run on there but
15
it hadn 't wiped and deleted a11 the area s .
16
The recycle bin are a hadn 't been wiped .
17
It h ad b e e n em p t ied b u t n o t w i pe d , an d I r e c ov e re d
18
nine e-m ail files from that that had b een de leted on
19
o r b efore December 11th and 12th .
21
22
oo:ba
But q ran it on Denn is ' personal work
14
20
ao:53
So .
/1 1 o f t he p ro q r am m e r s ' m a c h ine s h a d
13
1.
( g'
Q.
Did any of the other emp lo yee s complain
about the ir e-m ail files that had be en d eleted?

A.
I had one p rogramm er, Krishn a Tangira la,
23
comp lain that when I w as gone , Dennis took h is hard
24
drive away and gave it back to him with just a clean
(775) 323-5492
on:53
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4
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.-.-
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--
j5y)
slate harti dr.

i.v,, just: the ope rati-ng system .
And ) asked Dennis about that .
Th is is
th e we e k o f t h e 3 zd t o t he 6t h .
he said th at Krishna 's mach ine had crashed and died .
I a s ked De n n is a nd
A n d 1' c
as ke d K r j.sh n a an d h e s a id th at
wasn ': true.
too k his hard drive .
MR . FLYNN: Objection; hearsay .
THE COURT :
MR . FLYNN: Objection, hearsay.
11
THE COUHT :
12
A sk another questio n .
13
MR . JAKO PIN :
16
Sustained .
10
15
:Q:b4
The computer was working fine; he just
14
Fine , your Hono r .
BY M R . JAKOPIN :
Q.
O the c than Krishna , d id any o ther
Object ion ; he arsay .
18
T HE COURT :
1 'm not sure 1 'm go ing to
19
sustain that .
20
o f m ind and what they did afterwards than it doe s the
21
truth o f the matte r .
24
oo:ss
employees comp lain about e -m ails hav ing been deleted ?
M R . FLYNN :
23
o0:s4
It 's su stasned .
17
22
('
I thin k th is g oe s m ore to th eir state
1 111 consider it on ly for the former as

opposed to th e latter .
Go ahead .
LIZA CHAPJSN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
oo:ss
(z.,r,.
1
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B Y M R . JA KO P IN :
Q.
Answer the quest ion .
A.
They d cln 't de lete
I d on 't believe the y
com plained about f'-nlails be ing deleted ; they
complained about sou rce code on their m ach ines beinq
deleted .
7
8
9
Q.
A.
Did you do any recove ry fo r e-m ails of
E-m ails, no .
1 only -- we t ried recovery of a 11 files
11
deleted, not just e-mails. We tried to recover
12
anyth ing deleted .
13
14
e-ma ils; we were tryjng to figure out what was
15
deleted .
00:56
We d idn 't know what was de leted overall :
17
so w e w e r e t r y in g t o re c ov e r t o d e te rm in e w ha t w a s
18
deleted .
19
MR . JA KOPIN :
20
THE CO URT :
That ls al1 1 have .
Cro ss?
O0:s6
21
22
24
oo:ss
So we weren 't just narrow ing in on
16
00:55
anyone othe r than Mr . Montgom e ry 's e -m ails ?
10
23
5a
CROSS EXAM INATION

BY MR . FLYNN :
Q.
You testified about a conversation that
(775) 323-5492
)
1
t
54
yo u ha d w it h M lT. 1
',
1o nt g om e r y ab o u t b i g m o n e y ?
A.
Right .
Q.
And l3e lieve you said that Mr . Montqome ry
said that unless the gove rnment qave h im b ig m oney --
some thing ; is tlla t correct?
eo:56
A.
No .
Q.
No ?
A.
He d idn t mention the government .
Q.
Was it un less Mr . T repp gave him b ig
10
money ?
00:56
11
A.
M r . Trepp was the words he used .
12
Q.
And that conversation took p lace on
13
January 10th?
14
A.
That 's riqht .
15
Q.
Now , let 's go b ac k to the begin ninq of
16
your employm ent .
In m y offiee .
17
I 'v e n o ti c e d i n y ou r De c la r a t io n a n d yo u r
18
test imony he re , you keep us ing the singula r eTrepp id
19
sou rce code .
20
21
f 7-
A re you aware o f that?
A.
00:57
1 ca Ll it the co llective .
It 's m ultip le
22
projects, multiple source code files, so eTreppid
23
source cod e is probably m ore than a hund red different
24
projects, thousands of files.
00:56
(775) 323-5492

-..e
1
1
Q.
th a t j.n yo u r De c)1.a ra t io n
e T re p p id s o u r ca c cd e .
s:
Now , so you ag ree w ith me# though ,
y ou u se d t.h e E;in (
JL1ia r
In you c testim ony here , you fve been us ing

the e T re pp id s(3u rc e cod e i n t h e s i n(gu 1a r .
6
A.
R ight .
Q.
But wh nt you really m eant was
collectively ?
10
A.
11
12
R ig h t .
oc:sv
MR. JAKOPIN: Objection; argumentative.

BY M R . FLY N N :
13
Q.
ts that correct?
14
r HR COURT :
15
lt 's not a statem ent .
Ho , T th in k it 's a question .
n0:sJ
16
G o ahead , answer it .
17
T H E W IT N E SS :
18
Q.
23
24
N ow , let 's talk about what co llect ive ly
means .
n0:s7
21
22
T h at 's c o r r e ct
BY MR . FLYNH :
19
20
oo:57
You ag ree w ith that ?
O kay .
jg'
When you first started wor king at

eTrepp id , describe actually what you were doing .
A.
1 was programm ing the gam e engine that I
had develop ed previous to work tng fo r eTreppid ,
LIZA CHAPEN r CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
f
'M -/
1
1
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.
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inu i ncg d e ve 1.o p j.ng o :1 j-t .
Denn is and W arren wanted me to possib ly
ma ke it into a Henny Rogers video gamez The G ambker .
We exp Lo red that route .
We exp lored many diffe rent routes , but
programming it .
Q.
How long did you work on that ?
A.
C o up Le o f y ea r s .
Q.
How many files would you est im ate you
10
created ?
C ompute r files?
A.
C o u p Le t ho u sa n d .
12
Q.
How lnany computer lbraries would you
14
e stimate you --
A.
15
1 1/1 tncluding the lib ra rie s.

When you compile source eode /
' it generates
16
libraries a s ntc rmediate files .
17
those as final fjles, but l 'm includ ing those files ,
18
as well .
19
20
21
22
23
24
Qo:sa
0O:b8
11
13
j
'
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Q.
You can a lso u se
So cart you characterize any of the se files
co llective ly as libraries?
A.
O r no?
Lib raries are part o f a source code .
They fre pre- -- they fre inte rm ed iate comp iled file .
Q.
0o:b8
How m any so urce cod es were there fo r th is
video qame techno logy ?
LIZA C!HAPEFI: CCRr RMR
(775) 323-5492
0o:s8

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A.
The actual C++ fizes is what you 're
referr ing Lo ?
Q.
Kxp lain to the Cour l

- what a C ++ file is .
A.
T ha t 's the actua) - - wh en you 're
p rogramm ing, you can prog ram in va rious langu ages .
p rog rammed in C.4+ .
T h e y 're b a s ic a l ly t e x t f i le s .
read them with just a regular notepad, even, and
the se comp ile to generate librar ies as interm ed iate ,

and fknally as an e xecutab le .
11
00:59
So I -- you create the text -- these
12
va rious text -- Cd+ text fi Les, and I w ould say there
13
we re several hundred ; maybe 800 in the game engine .
14
15
Q.
Eight hundred source codes just for the
video technology hhat you worked for two years on ?
16
A.
Correct .
17
Q.
And that takes u s up to 200 1?
18
A.
Into 2002 .
19
Q.
And the --
20
A.
I m ean, I still work on -- I 'm shi ll
21
working on it regularly with one of ou r programmers :
22
M ich ae l Svatek .
23
24
0::59
Y ou ca n
10
.''r .
Q. Were there any other projects you worked

on betw een the inception of your emp loyment and
(775) 323-5492
:0:s9
00:59
('-w.
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throughout the tioe you were workinq on the v ideo
game project?
A.
Theater System .
Q.
for that?
A.
10
11
:j
T he plqhyer that we used for the lntel Home
And Low many source codes d id you create
T here was not as many as the game engine ,
but a coup le hundred .
Q.
How many lines o f code were involved --
Thousands .
13
Q.
Tens 01.
2 thousa nds ?
14
A.
Ten s of thousands .
15
Q.
But you 're not calling those source cod es?
A.
That is C++ coding .
18
Q.
So there were tens of thousands of sou rce
21
22
23
24
u1:o0
Because that 's not C++ coding?
17
20
nn no
are involved in the video game technolog y?

A.
19
n!:no
1 can 't recall w ith tha t .
12
16
',
(.
7.
codes just for the video game technology?

A.
Yo u wouldn 't call th at sourc e code .

Sou rce code re fers to the ac tual code to
m ake up a program .
Q. Okay. And on this second project you were

wor king on, how many l ines of code did you create
LIZA CHAPEN : CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
on oo
e..)
1
A.
I d on 't recall .
1 wtlskeci on it w jth a coup le of other

programm ers .
Q.
Dur ing this period of time , did you wo rk
on any other addlional projects other than those
tw o ?
A.
Program -w ise r no .
Q.
So dur lng this two-year pe riod ,
10
col lective ly , hcw m any source codes d id you create
11
for eTrepp id Technology?
12
A.
Just add up the ones we just talked about .
13
Q.
So L,ow m any?
14
A.
Lines o f code or files or what are you
15
01:01
01:01
Rough ky ?
as king?
01:01
16
Q.
Wel L, let 's deal with line s of code .
17
A.
A c od e is n 't l i ke s om e l i t t le s im p le ca rd
18
or something. it's not just one little bit of
19
numb er .
20
ca ll -- source code is what m akes up a p rogram
21
i
,
59
d u r i n q t h a t tw (n- yt?a r p e r iod th c)t w e 're t a 1 k ing a b ou t ?
('-v
-j
You would n 't ca ll that a cod e .
You would
.
Go to m ake up y like , sayr fo r example r
22
W indows M ed ia Playe r, they have thousands -- 1O , 20,
23
40,0007 who knows how many .
24
collectively the source code that ma kes Windows M edia
You would call that
(775) 323-5492
01:01

,
tM-.h
$.
P la y e r .
Q.
o f c o d es ?
A.
L inils; of code is mo re accurate .
Q.
And co llectivelyz to acces s those tens of
B u t th e re a re , in f,Ac t . t e n s o f th ou s a nd s
L j n.
E)s :?f (rod e ?
t h ou s a nd s o f l in e s o f c od e , h ow m u c h so u r c e c od i n g
wou ld you need?
A.
Your que stion doesn 't ma ke m uch sense .
Q.
Does it a 1l end up in an executable file?
10
A.
lt al1 ends up in one file .
11
12
01:02
help er files , if you want to b e simp le ab out it .

DLLS are like -- you would say W indows
14
Med ia Playe r ha s one executab le and m aybe 10 , 20
15
add itiona l files to m ake it run .
16
Q.
A l1 right .
01:02
How m any lines of code a re
17
i nv o l v ed i n t ho se tw o ty p e s o f fi l e s ?
18
file or the executable?
19
A.
20
thousand .
21
22
23
24
O1:a2
O r possib ly auxilia ry DLL files , which are
13
jj(;
T he h e lp e r
Tens of thousand s; 50,000 , m aybe a hund red

01:03
For like the W indows Operating System ,

it 's m illions of line s o f code .
Q.
So if we we re dealing w ith som ething you
want to call source code to access that --
(775) 323-5492
)...h
t--77.
(;).
A.
U h -tllh .
Q.
-- how many actual kines o f code would we
b e dea ling with in that source code?
4
5
A.
For krhat, like the p layer 1 made for
lntel?
01:03
Q.
Yeah .
A.
That one had thou sand s of lines .
The game engine thah 'sr you know -- lines
in there , 1 b e l.aev e there 's 50 ,000 , prob ab ly , in al1
10
the various p arts .
11
01:03
Q.
A nd whatt would you call those?
13
A.
There ts no codes, plu ral ; it 's code ,
14
singular .
15
Q.
12
16
Source
codes?
But Lt involv es tens of thousands of lines
o f code?
17
A.
L in e s o 1: c od e i s th e a c tu a l t e rm .
18
Q.
Okay .
20
A.
Which technology?
21
Q.
This technology for the v ideo game ?
22
A.
We have that .
19
23
Now, where is that technology
toda y?
01:03
That hasn 't been deleted .
It 's kept on m y m ach ine ; m y programmer ,
t'
1,
24
:1:03
Michael Svatek rs , mach ine ; and also we have that
(775) 323-5492

.
q
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T ha t w a sn 't d e le ted .
Q.
So when you we re g ivinq your te stimony on
direct , when you sa id a11 the se source code s --
e'
rrepp id source code was de leted --
A.
Uh-huh .
Q.
-- you weren 't re ferring to two years o f
work and tens of thousands o f lines o f code , pe rhap s
million s?
10
A.
11
Dennis ha s never had any invo lvement in
Q.
You were not referring, even though you
11
used the s ingu lar f you we re not referr ing to those
15
ten s of thousands o f line s of code on the v ideo game
16
technology , w ere you?
17
A.
No .
18
Q.
And that is eTreppid source code , isn 't
20
A.
That 's som e of the eTrepp id sou rce code .
21
Q.
But you didn 't m ake that d istinct ion , did
23
A.
We 've got r I would say --
24
Q.
Please. Again, you didn 't make that
22
01:04
Please , p lease , M r . V enab les .
13
19
01:04
do ing the game eng ine .
12
s t i.1 1 o n o u r S 11C SF,J?V E R .
'
ol:a4
it ?
you ?
LIZA CHAPRN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
01:04
r
t
.'w'.''
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f
A.
-- one pe lcent o i the eTrepp id source code
i s t h e g a m e e n g in e .
Q.
Th ank you .
S o L f7 th e re a re t en s o f th o u s an d s a nd th a t
represents one percent , then the eTrepp id source code
involves m illions and m illions of lines of code , does
it not ?
A.
We don 't have tha t much .
is m ore complex than a 1ot of the other eT repp id
11
stu ff .
13
1 would say in the hundreds o f thousands .
Q.
A re you able to d raw on the b lackb oard an
outline o f th e networ k stru chu re , the in frastructure
15
at eTrepp id T echnologies?
16
A.
IV
.Q.
18
A.
01:05
Yes .
How the computer ne twork was set up?
Yes .
MR . FLYNN :
W ith the C ourt 's pe rm ission,
20
could we m ove the b lackboard pe rhap s over here so the
21
Court could see it?
22
THE COU RT :
Yes .
23
MR . FLYNN :
And hav e the w itness --
24
01:05
14
19
n1:as
T he game enqine
10
12
)'
63
distinct ion ?
2
3
(%.g
BY M R . FLYNN :
LIZA CHAPRN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
n1:ob
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1
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Q.
64
Be fo ,7e w e do tha t:, d id yo 12 h a v e , in yo u r

.
hom e, a pe rsona l connection to a L1 of the servers at
eT tepp id Techno lo gy?
A.
p rivate networ k.
I hacl a d jal-up VPN at my house , v i rtu a l

0l:oG
T hat lets me connect to the office through
an encrypted hunnel so the passwords o r anything else
cou ldn 't be sp ied on over the (nte rnet , and 1 had seL
up that VPN in September of th ks p ast year so I can
10
mon itor our ma gLl server on our WEBSERVER .
11
Q.
Why d id you set that up ?
12
A.
So
13
E can monitor our ma il servers and our
Occasionally , our netwo rks would go down
15
and I w an ted ho m a ke sure that -- Dennis w anted to
16
ma ke su re -- I w anted to m ake sure that they w eren 't
17
g o in g - - t h ey w e r e n 't dy i n g o n u s g a nd I c a n w a tc h
18
them from my hou se .
19
20
house .
on o6
Q.
Did anyone else have that capability?
22
A.
No .
24
oz:o6
That could only b e connected to from my
21
23
01:06
WEBSERVER and ou r network status .
14
Patty G ray wanted it set up for her house
in Phoenix, but wzj hadn't set that up yet .
(775) 323-5492
)--j
1
t
Q.
(;s
And so you -- what would you call it ,
v irhua t p rivat a network?
A.
T h a t 's r ig h t .
Q.
Can you tell the Court w hether you d id
this because a rte r a ce rta in date and tim e there
seemed -- there began a period whe re there were tens
of hhousands o f efforts to intrude into the eTreppid
software?
A.
contract was made public by som e sort o f press
11
release by som ebody in the military r ou r n e tw o r k w a s
12
constantly under attack .

So w e beefed up ou r router system .
0nn7
I got
14
a m uch stronger C tsco rou ter , and l ran -- sta rted
15
running in tru sion detection software to see who was
16
try ing to get into ou r networ k from the outside .
17
18
Q.
01:07
Now y man y hits after the first -- can we
call it a m ilitary contract?
19
A.
Rkght .
20
Q.
A fte r the first m ilitary cont ract w as made
21
pub lic, a s you put it, how m any hits began to ap pear
22
per day?
23
24
a1:ov
A ftez , I believe , our first m ilitary
10
13
4
'
;
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y
A.
fo
We w ere getting thousand s a day g prob ab ly
ur or five th ousand .
(775) 323-5492
01:08
;
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t
t he re w e re a lo t ; 4- to 5 ,0 00 ra n g e .
I kfaep a lo .
inputs .
Q.
were you gett ing?
9
10
1 have a 1og o f a11 the
It 's been record jng s nce that period .
A.
A nd p rio r to that , how m any h its per day
01:08
Plior to the m ilitary contract?
W e host variou s web s ites ,
so includin q
tho se , probably a couple hundred , maybe 500 a day .
Q.
So it went from 500 a day to 4- to
5 ,000 --
ol:aa
11
A,
T housand .
12
Q.
-- or mo re per day?
13
A.
Right .
14
Q.
Now , the first m ilita ry contract : just in
15
as few wo rds as possible to give a desc ription o f it
16
for the C ou rt , how would you characterize it , just in
17
te rm s o f s om e t y p e o f a d e sc r ip t io n ?
18
A.
19
contract .
20
Q.
Warren and Dennis --
In fact , you never had access to any of
the source codes o r any of the governm ent contracts
22
did you ?
24
A.
n1:oa
I don 't have a l1 the d etails about our
21
23
1t '.
l; tap i?red o f f s in cia, bu t. in i t ia 1 1-y
(:
;(;
I d on 't actually -- 1 know what program s
we delivered to them
(775) 323-5492
01:09
,
Q.
A l l 1-j.(
gh t..
A.
1 was invo lved in --
Q.
You neve r had ac cess to any of them?
(Discussion o ff the record .)
T H E C O U RT :
M R . l3EF,K :
his answer be fore --
T H E CC U R T :
Q.
11
Y e s , y e s , ye s .
W hat 's the answe r to my question?

T H E CG UR T :
L e t h im f in i sh t h e l a st
THE WITNESS :
11
THE COURT :
Which part?
Do you rem ember the question?
BY MR . FLYNN :
Q.
01:09
Did you ev er have access to any of the
17
l in e s o f c od e d on e b y M r . M o n t go m e ry o n th e s ec re t
18
government projects?
19
20
A.
01:09
The actual code to generate those

executab les , I haven 't seen an y of that .
23
24
1 know what executable s we de liv ered .
was involv ed w ith the delive ry .
21
22
01:09
answe r.
16
f
'
Will he he allowed to finish
13
15
nl:09
BY MR . FLYHN :
10
12
O n e a t a Lim e .
Q.
Yo u were never given acces s to them , were
you?
(775) 323-5492

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,
'
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- .- - -
.- -
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A.
R i.g h t -
Q.
N ow , can we use the term , fo r the first
m ilitary contract , facia l recognihio n?

A.
I don 't even know if that was it .

1 be tieve the first contract was more with
the Predator .
pub licly known th Lrlg .
8
9
Q.
So you d on 't even know wh ich one actually
came first ?
A.
H uh -uh .
11
Q.
Is l t fair --
12
I hav e a --
01:10
Go ahead .
A.
I have an actua l -- for pa rt of ou r
14
fac ilit y, m iljtary fac ilit y, l 've got copies of
15
the -- what 's ca qled DD Fo rm 254 f wh ich is the
16
m ilitary cont ract gorm .
17
18
19
cn zo
I h a v e t h e eo p i e s c)f th e o r ig in a l o n e o f
that , and th e first one c ame from the A ir Force .

Q.
S o you were g iven -- because of the actual
20
fo rm in the cont ract, you were given som e knowledge
21
by someone at eTreppid about what the end result was
22
of what M r . Montgomery wa s doing ; is that a fair
23
character izat ion?
24
on lo
That ts the public -- pub lic --
10
13
(jjj
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. .
Ju st overall , general , what it w as ab out .
(775) 323-5492
01:10

a.,h
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I.
.
1
1
D.
B u t y o u w ou l d n ev e r - .- no 0 ne e v e r to 1(El
.
you sp ec i f Lc a 1 1.y 'ah a t h e w a s do i (Ag ?
A.
No .
Q.
A 11 riqht .
outline o f the ne tworking infrastructure at
eTreppid --
7
8
10
THE C'OURT :
Ts there something for him to
T HE CLERK :
I be lieaze there 's ch alk up
the re .
01:11
11
T HE CO URT :
O kay .
12
T HE CLERK :
Would they like to u se the
13
16
17
18
19
A 11 right .
paper or the chalkboard?
14
15
01:11
write w ith ?
(
.
If we cou ld have you c reate an
THE COURT :
t pre fer the paper , if we 've
got some .
01:11
M R . FLYNN :
The pape r may be better for
your Honor, if you couYd just makntain custody of it .

THE COURT :
I dm going to m aintain custody
o f it a fter it s filled out .
20
And we 'll mar k it --
an zz
21
M R . FLYNN :
Thank you , yor Honor .
22
T HE COURT ;
-- as Exhibit 1 .
23
Did you hear that , Greg?
24
THE CLERK :
Yes .
(775) 323-5492 '=
I)
'
. --
7:
.-
(Exhibit 1 was marked for dentification .)
THE W ITNESS :
4
5
What exactly do you want m e
to dkaqram ?
Hetwo rk structure is pretty open ; we don 'h
h a ve a 1o t o f d tv js io n s .
01:12
THE W ITNESS :
Ou r netwo rk struc tu re is
fairly open .
sub-networ ks on our netw ork .
10
We clon 't have any subd ivisions or
W e have our m ain Internet , sa y, com ing --
11
say this is the Tnternet com ing into ou r ma in router,
22
which is C isco router .
13
of fire w all instruction s w hich prevents w hat can
14
com e into the netwo zk .
15
16
17
0::12
In that route r, I have a list
I basically 1et eve rything go out ; hhere 's
n1:12
no re striction on that .
A f t e r t h at , I h av e a s e r ie s o f sw itc h es
18
set up in a rack that al1 of the comp uters in the
19
bu ildings are set up to .
20
another interm ediate router be fore this , wh ich does
21
our NA T , wh ich is Network A dd ress Trans lation .
22
('7/
--
'
I actua lly go thtough
So everybody on the Intel network is on a
23
priv ate IP seqment, so these m achine s c an 't even be
24
seen from the Internet except through one IP
(775) 323-5492
01:13
(..-)
1
to tell you what it is , but t 's one private IP
everybody 's in the bu ild ing r looks like , o u t o n th e
n etw o r k , o n t h e In te r ne t .
sitez everybody in the build kng looks like just one
IP.
So if you 're busy in a web
building are p lug ged into this .
server s and a11 the wo rk stations thah a11 the
That includes our
p rogramm ers use .
11
on la
I had one other segmen t o f network set up
12
out in the w arehouse .
13
Denn is u sed regularly for do ing som e o f h is
14
classified pro jects.
15
These a re the machines that
Th ose were going th rou gh anothe r m achine .
16
That m a chine was the gatew ay to th is network .
17
w e r en 't a n y re s t r kct io n c o n t ro l s ; th ks t r af f i c w as
18
two-way .
We were go ing to put another route r he re
20
in p lace o f th is comp uter because this compute r was
21
not ver y rel iab le .
22
24
That s the basic st ructure .

BY MR . FLYNN :
Q.
What would we call this?
(775) 323-5492
01:13
There
19
23
01:13
T hen, every -- a11 the m achines in the
10
.yy
T his one IP is set up -- 1 don 't even need
tq
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01:14
f Ah
t-7
1
t
2
3
Y o u sa .
Lcl it 's in t hi? kla re ho u se ?
T h is s e t
o f ma ch in e s t h (
:,t 'po u s a id De n n 1s w a s '
ao r k ing w it h ?
A.
De n rli s c a 11e d the ra 12h63 c lu st e r .
T h e y w e re
a (
Jro up o f W inc1ow :5 )(P w o r k s ta 1:ic)n s s et up i n - - a t
va r .
i.o u s t im e s f w e l-la d d i f f'e re n t am ou n t s .
in each rack .
cab inet .
10
11
Q.
Each one of the se w ou ld be a rac k
A nd whe re was Dennis actua lly wo rking in
connection w ith the clu ster?

A.
o f d iv ided in two p arts .
13
offices .
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
The fronh section is
This back sect ion here is w arehouse .
14
16
01:14
Th is w as up in our -- our building is kind
12
15
:1:14
T here 's about five of these work stations
j
'
72
az
..
Denn js had set up a ser ies of tab les out

he re that he wo rked on .
Q.
O kay .
He was regularly out here .
1:14
A nd where did you w ork ,
M r . Ve n ab l e s ?
A.
Our serv er room was up in th is area and my
o ffice is right next to it .

So our servers were here and I was here .
Q. Okay . Could you just put the initials DM

down there .
And wh o w orked in these work stations over
here in the warehou se , near Dennis?
LIZA CFIAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5192
o1:z4
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1
'
'
A.
Ju s t. Ee J1n i.s .
W a 1'r e rl ()c CJa s io na 11 y w a s o ttt t h e re w o r ki ng
w it h h im .
Q.
A nd n o ()n e e 1 se '?
A.
R ig h t .
Q.
D ici y o u ev e r (
;o o u t th e re a nd w o r k on a n y
8
9
Ol:Lb
o f t ho se w o r k s ta t io n s ?
A.
Troubleshooting , helping him clone them to
m ake more of them .
10
Q.
Bu t actually creat ing line s of code --
11
A.
No .
12
Q.
-- d id you ever do that ?
13
A.
Neve r .
14
Q.
The answer was neve rr correct ?
15
A.
Righ t .
MR . FLYNN :
17
Y ou ca n r e su m e t h e s ta n d , p l e a se .
18
THE COURT :
22
Than k you , sir .
A re there going to b e any
additions to th is draw in g?
20
21
ol:ls
01:15
16
19
73
M R . FLYNN :
I believe so .
THE COURT :
A ll right .
M r . Montgomery
w ill be - -
23
there y then , untjl we --
24
BY MR . FL YN N :
We fll leave it up
(775) 323-5492
o1:ls

-
Q.
Where were the programmers achua lly
tha t the p rogrammers --
A.
R i g ht .
Q.
-- were actually wo rk ing ?
A.
Th at section there Lhat 1 have that Lop
01:16
diagram o n is actually a two-s to ry a rea .
warehouse is a k1 sngle-story .
11
12
13
The
So some of them were on the seeond floor
Q.
So , for exam ple , on the v deo game , was
th at d ata com p ressson-type technolo gy?
A.
No, just 3-D rendering.
15
Q.
So e'
rreppid Technolo gies was doing
16
software technology other than just data compression,
17
c o r re c t ?
A.
19
20
23
24
01:16
Co rrect .
MR . PEEK :
Counse l, I can 't see the
w itness .
01:16
21
22
0n t6
some we re on th e Jrirst floor .
14
18
/4
I believe -- are these the work stat ion
10
f-''7
working ?
3
4
T han k you .
B Y M R . FLYNN :
Q.
A nd who w as in charge o f these prog rammers
working over heue?
'
(775) 323-5492
1
/
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(
.
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.'
1
2
A.
Gentqra Lly Denn is wats in cha rge o f a 11 the
prog ramm ers in th e bu ilding .
3
4
y:
Q.
A nd who were -- can you give the identity
o f those p rogramm ers for the Court?
A.
Upsla i rs area or the downstairs area?
Q.
Upsta i rs first .
A.
Upslrairs, we had Aarjinder Bal.
I oI4ly remembe r hjs first nam e , Ka rthik.
T h is i s c u r re n t ; w e dv e h a d p e op le com e a nd
10
g o ove r the yeazs .
11
Venkat a Ka lluri .
12
Lal i.th Tenneti .
13
Q.
14
15
01:16
lf t could just stop you there .

Mr . Ba ls and M r . Ka llur i are the same
people that have subm itted Dec larations in this case ?
16
A.
Co rrect .
17
Q.
But they never wo rked with Dennis down in
18
th is o ther a rea you 've got dow n be low , either , did
19
they?
20
21
22
91:16
A.
Th ey were occasionally down there .
do n rt know for what .
The upper a rea had g lass w ind ows so we
23
could see who went down to that area , an d I observed
24
just about everybody in the building down there with
(775) 323-5492
01:17
01:17
).-)
1
y(y
De n n is a t o ne t im e o r an o th e r .
Q.
cr e a ti o n ?
A.
Fo r /1hat project'?
Q-
T o y 0 u 17 kno w l ed g e ?
A.
I have no idea wh at they d id for him .
Q.
O kay .
B u t th 6)y 14e v e r d id a n y so u rc e c od e
ol:17
: nd would you cont inue with the
identity o f the programm ers, p lease .
A.
10
that one .
Just programmers, Michael Sv atek ; you got

01:17
11
Jessie Anderson .
12
I believe that 's a1l hhe p rogramme rs
13
upsta krs .
14
p ro g r amm e r s .
15
Q.
The re 's other people , b ut those are the
All right .
Now , so you tv e done -- during
16
those first two years , did you do any work that we
17
w ou ld c a l l d at a cem p re ss io n - t yp e w o r k?
18
A.
No .
19
Q.
Do you know of anyone who did?
20
A.
Ven kata d id .
21
Q.
A nyone e tse?
22
A.
I 'm su re others .
23
nl:la
I know h im for su re ; I rv e seen the
24
prog ram s he 's worked on .

.
01:17
(775) 323-5492
?-)
1
j
Q.
.1-1
Dur in tho se first two years , what
p e rc e n ta r
ge o f Lh e c;om p an y w o r k , i f yo u kno w , wa s da ta
co mp re s s i()n - t yp e w o rk ?
4
5
A.
1n i t ia 1 J.y,
.
I L)e 1ieve that was the rt

ajority
o f w ha t. w e we re clo ng .
Q.
:&:1e
Have you ever seen any of the books or
records o f the com pany ?
A.
No .
Q.
Have you ev er seen any of the agreements
10
between Mr . --
11
A.
12
of:la
No .
We lt, a s far as record s , 1 h ave th e
13
majority stockholder list as part of our facility
14
security .
15
Q.
In you r office?
16
A.
Yes .
17
Q.
De scribe those records, p lease .
18
A. They show who the majority shareholders
19
20
r'-h
I have that info rmation .
n1:18
a re .
For ge thing you r facility se curity
21
c learance , you need to know if the com pany ha s any
22
foreign inte rest in the com pan y so that we could
23
have -- foreign interest or influence , so the records
24
show -- 1 be lieve it 's Friendly C ap ital Partners ,
(775) 323-5492
n1:18
V--'
)
1
Q.
That 's M r . Trepp , a lso, correct?
A.
M r . T re p p re p re s en t :T D e nn i s a n d B re nd a
M on t gom e ry , a n d 1 b e l ie v e o ne ot h e r s ha r e - - th e r e 's
three shareholders on this as the majority
s h a r eh o ld e r s .
Q.
Is W ayne Primm one of tho se ?
A.
He 's not on the list .
Q.
Is Randy Ha lloway on that list?
10
A.
The list has M r . Trepp personally ,
11
Mr . T repp representing Friend ly Capital, and Dennis
12
and B renda Monlrgom ery .
14
15
Q.
Is M ichael M ilken in an y of the records as
17
T e c h n o lo g ie s - -
18
A.
Not that I know o f.
19
Q.
-- that you have p ossession of?
20
A.
N ot that 1 have, no .
21
Q.
A re you awa re that M r . T repp has stated
24
ol:la
majority shareholders list.
be ing shown as a shareho lder o f eT reppid
23
01:19
Those are the three ma in entities on the
16
22
78
a nd - -
13
fN)
o1:la
that he is a sha reholde r of eT reppid Techno logy?

A.
Yes .
That Mr . Trepp is ?
ol:tg
(775) 323-5492

7.
. -6
.
1.
Q.
'
i'h a t M r . M i-lke n i s .
A.
O h , i do n 't kno w ab (3u t: th a t:.
Q.
A r e y'o u a wa re o f w h (n M r - M i 1 ke n i s ?
A.
Ye s .
Q.
In fa ct , h e 's - - ha ve you e v e r
parhicipated in any discussions with M r . T repp about
M ichael M i tken 's knvolvement o f eT reppid Technology
and bein g a co nv icted felon ?
MR . FLYNN :
If 1 can finish z your Honor .
11
THE COIJRT :
Yeah , 1et him finish the
12
question.
13
until 1 hear it .
14
BY M R . FL Y N N :
16
Q.
In being a conv icted felon , and that fact
01:20
o1:zo
in te rtering witb the governmen t milihary contracts?
THE GOIJRT : Wait.
18
Sit down, Counsel, just for a minute .
19
A 11 right .
20
THE WITNESS :
Hold on just a second .
He 's never ta lked to m e
ab out M r . M ilken .
22
MR . PEEK :
23
T HE COIJRT :
24
O1t20
I don't know if it's objectionable or not
17
21
79
MR. JAKOPIN : Objection, your Honor.
10
15
47
Mr . Venab kes , p lea se .

N ow , go ahead and a sk the
question so I can --
LIZA CIIAPFN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
01:20

>-..
ap
B Y M R . FL Y NN :
Q.
Have you ever had any d iscussion with
Mr . T repp ab oui M r. Milken being a shareho lder o f
eTrepp id '
rechno logy, and that ract, because he is a
conv icted felon a t the Drexel -- d uring the Drexe l
days --
M R . PE KK :
conduct .
H Y M R . FL Y N N :
10
There 's no question --
Q.
-- o 1' interfering w ith a government -THE COURT :
12
M R . PE KK :
13
THE COURT :
16
THE COURT :
19
20
21
22
W aih a m inute .
Your co-counse l is handling
this witness -M R . PEEK :
18
Wait, w ait .
01:20
Yo u r H o no r , t he r e 's o n ly - -
15
17
o1:2a
Your Hono r, th is is outrageous
11
14
;zw ,,
O kay .
01:20
-- so a llow him to dea l w ith
t h is i s su e .
MR. JAKOPIN : Objection, your Honor.
He
answered the que stion no .

THE W ITN ESS :
He 's never ta lked to me
about M r . Milken ; never .

T HE COURT :
Well , I - - th is is
23
cro ss-exam inat ion .
I don lt know whethe r there 's any
24
relevance at a11 to this issue about the fe lony
LTZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
on al
,--A
1
r'l
a1
c on v ic t i on .
I 'm p e rsona lly very wel l aware who
M r . M lken is, i know what his bac kqround is y and if
we had a jury here, 1'd be a little more worried
about it, but we don 't have a jury.
01:21
i 'm go ing to try to sort out what I thin k
has som ething to do w ith this case , what doesn 't f so
I'm going to go ahead and 1et you go with that just a
little b it , but I do want you Lo tie it in on a -- on
10
relevance ground s.
11
12
0i:21
Mayb e it has to do w ith security

clearances .
13
MR . FLYNN :
lt does, your Honor , and when
14
M r . Montgome ry testifie s, we 'll go into it .
15
BY MR . FLYNN :
16
Q.
91:21
In the boo ks and records that you have, as
17
I u n d e rs t an d y o u r t e s t im o n y , yo u o n l y sh ow t h r ee
18
sha reholders?
19
20
21
A. Three majority; that 's a11 we require for

our fa cility c learance .
01:21
T he gove rnment doesn 't care about any
22
m inority shareho lde rs , any lowe r than -- I forget the
23
num ber ; I think it 's four percent .
'
24
Anything lower than that, they don 't care
(775) 323-5492
y'-.
X)
1
j'y
''
Q.
Did yo u eve r have any conv ersations with
anyone from the government about the identity of any
of Lhe shareho Lde rs o f eT repp id Technology?
A.
Thev just wanted to know who the majority
Q.
A nd yo u gave them - -
A.
Basiad on tha t, hhey granted us ou r
10
11
12
facilsty clearanc e .
Q.
O kay .
Explain to the Cou rt what a
A.
FaczLlity clearance is what we get as a
collect ive after the ke y people in our company got
14
their personal clea ran ces .
T he ke y peop le that we 've subm itted were
16
Denn is Montgomery , Warren Trepp v and myself as our
17
fa c i l it y s e c u r it y o f fi c e r .
18
01:22
fac ility clearance is .
13
15
01:22
o n e s w e re .
gyg
a bo u t .
t
'
01:22
A fter u s three got our clearances, they
19
reviewed w ho the sha reholder s were, and a fter that ,
20
what cont ract we had w ith the gove rnm ent -- you
21
have -- to get a clearance : you have to have a
22
cont ract that spec ifie s comp liance , and afte r that
23
they gran ted u s ou r facility clearance , meaning we
24
can handle cla ssified material after a further
L IZA CHAPENy CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
01:22
1--.
1
'
Q.
A.
We weren 't given that fina l pe rm ission
yet .
inspection to kn spect our storage conta iners, our
sa fe s .
9
10
It said tha t w e could but we needed furhher
Q.
been giv en a final security clearance to store

classified m aterial ; is that co rre ct ?
A.
C orrect .
12
Q.
A nd your explanation of the reason why is
14
A.
The rules state that DSS , De fense Security
Serv ice , is in charge of granting th at fina l storage
16
c learance .
17
e x it p r o ce d u r e s to r t h e b u i kd in g , o u r a la rm c o d e
18
stu ff, and also what storaqe containers we fre using
19
and how w e m aintain the proced ures fo r ente ring and
20
takinq out classified m ateria l, wh ich w as part of
21
that review on December 10th , that Jay Dixon came to
22
start -- initiate .
24
:t:23
what aga in , M r . Venab les?
15
23
01;2a
So as of today 's date, eT repp id has never
11
13
Did that c learance (pive eT repp kd the rght
to store any c lassified m aterial ?
83
.
inspech ion to see what storage capab ilities we had .
2
3
y'-$
Q.
01:23
Th ey come and inspe ct wha t our ent ry and
A1l right .
Let 's go back to -- let 's go
back to the var iou s technologie s that you were
(775) 323-5492
01:23
!r->
'
'
inv olved in , and 'L gu ess We 're up to some tim e in
200 1, and we 've got: the video gam e technology,
correct ?
A.
Correc t.
Q.
A nd the other technology -- what did we
A.
11
12
T forget the name of iL .
Q.
15
it was a med ia
And what time in 2001 d oe s that take us
to?
0t:24
A.
That was up unt l 2002 be fo re we moved to
our current bu iYd ing .
13
14
We movecl to our current bu ilding in August

of 2002 .
Q.
O kay .
And whah d id you work on a fter
16
these other technolog ies that you men tioned for
17
eTreppid Technology?
18
A.
infrastructu re whatsoever .
20
that up , working with contractors to w ire our
21
bullding , se tting up al1 the n etw or k stuff .
22
24
01:24
The b uild ing we mov ed into had no network
19
23
cl:24
player fo r the lntel Hom e Thea te r Gystem .
9
10
'
call that , Mr . Venable s?
'
a4
6k
r'-h'
1 wo rked on setting a11

o1:2b
W e had nothing in that bu ild ing , so I

wo rked on that .
Q.
Fo r how long?
LTZA CLlA PEN, CCRz RMR
(775) 323-5492
)G.,h
1
!
A.
It too k about a yea r to get it to whe re it
is now .
Q.
So dur Lng that year , clid you ha ve anything
to do w ith creating source codkng for any codes for
eTreppid Technology?
6
7
A.
o1:2s
On a regular basis, 1 dea lt w ihh M ichael
and wh a t h e w a s d(7ing , b u t o t h e r th a n t h a t , no .
Q.
M ic #1a e 1 '
aho ?
A.
M icla e 1 Sva t e k . wo r k ing o n the game
10
11
12
13
14
ertg ine .
:l:2s
Q.
So other than tha tr for another whole
yea r -- we lre now up to when in 2002 , would you say?

A.
We rre into 2003 by the t ime we finalize
our full networ k se tup .
15
Beg inning in 2003 , I was involved w ith
16
d oing a 11 the purchasing and designing of the
17
h ar dw a r e t h at L e 's g o t o u t th e re o n t h at r a c k - -
18
system of rac ks .
19
Q.
20
('
pb
1:2b
So , again , no involvement with regard to
creating source coding for eTreppid T echnolog ies?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
Is there an y time up to the pre sent , since
23
your invo lvem ent in the video game s, where you 've
24
b een invo lved in creating source code for eTrepp id
(775) 323-5192
91:25
7
1
a6
T e c h n ol o g y ?
A.
N o t s inc 6) th e n f no -
Q.
Do you h ave any know ledge as to what
percentage of the eT repp d business invo lved data
comp ress ion techn olog y up unti t December o f 2002?
A.
m o n e y ca m e fr om .
Q.
So you have no know ledge of even what was
paid for any of the projects eTreppid was working on?

A.
No .
11
Q.
Do you have any know ledge of how m any
13
01:26
projects eTreppid was doinq?

A.
14
To tal. number, no .
I thin k Patty Gray, Dennis and W arren were
15
probably one the on ly one s -- the only three that
16
know al1 that .
17
18
Q.
Let 's call one technology dat a
You apparently never worked on any source

coding for data com pression ?
:1:26
21
A.
That 's correct .
22
Q.
We 'l1 call the other one vide o com pression
23
24
01:26
comp ression .
19
20
c1:26
I hav e no idea where the b reakdown of
10
12
j'
-7
technology .
Is that basically the game?
The video
(775) 323-5492
h
1
A.
No .
V ideo comp resson is for p laying b aek
video, such as a IIVD or just a video file itself,
like , for exam p ie y compre ssnq a DV D m ov ie to fit
onto a CD .
Q.
01:24
So you have no knowledge a s to how much
sou rce cod ing was d one by eTreppid for video
compre ssion tec bnology; ks tha t correct?
10
8-1
game ?
A.
I 've seen the variou s p rogrammers and what
projects they 're working on and --
11
Q.
Do you --
12
A.
-- l 've dealt w ith that video compression
13
14
15
Q.
Do you know what pe rcentage of the company
business that Lnvolved?
01:27
A.
No iclea .
17
Q.
Do you know what percentage of the company
revenues that inv olved?
19
A.
1 have no idea .
20
Q.
But aga in
21
you never created any source
coding yourse lf for that?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Did you ever have an y access directly
24
01:27
for the Intel Media Player .
16
18
('
where you loo ked at the sou ree coding for v ideo
(775) 323-5492
01:27
)
1
'
'
8i'
comp ress ion techno logy?
A.
I h,
itci w o r ke d w i.th on e o f the p rog r amme r s
on the stream ing o f ou r v ideo com pressed videor
Lalith Tennetir so T've seen some of Lhe projects he
W o r ke d o n .
6
7
01:28
And a lso with one o f the p rior employees ,

Am it .
1 forget Am it 's last name .
l 've se en some of the stu ffy he lping them
10
11
'
-5
hrouble shoot , comp iling stu ff .
Q.
:1:28
Do you know how many Lines o f sou rce
12
coding there are at eTreppid fo r the video
13
compression technoloqy?
14
A.
1 have no idea .
15
Q.
Do you know how many lines o f source
16
coding the re are at eTrepp id for the data compression
17
te c hn o io g y ?
18
A.
No .
19
Q.
When you gave a11 this direct te stimony
20
and you we re doing th is search w ith a11 of the other
21
employee s, as you put it , did you go b ack and loo k
22
for source coding for data compression or v ideo
23
comp re ssion techn ology?
24
A.
we loo ked for all deleted files .
(775) 323-5492
01:28
01:28
)
1
(
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
So you could -- as you s1t here Loday ,
BY MR . FLYNN :
Q.
-- for data compression techn oloqy in the
15
computers at e'
r repp id that you haven 't even chec ked
16
yet ; is that correct ?
MR . JA KO PIN :
THE COURT :
23
24
Ob jecton ; using ''aource
1 'm not sure I understand the
objection .
21
22
01:29
code s'l is imp rop er , foundation .
19
20
:z:29
MR. JAKOPIN : Objection.
17
t '
T don 't know what fjles we 've recovered .
there cou ld be tens of thousand s o f source eod es --
14
18
01:28
deleted files ; we have n 't gone through them all.
12
13
1s the )'e an y dat a comp re ss i o n t e chn o logy
We 're st ill in the p roeess o f recov ering
10
11
Y ou c art'11 d o a s e a rc h fo r (1e 1e t ed fi le s b y
so u rc e c o d i ng 84t e T .
re pp id t.o d a y # if y(3u kn o w ?
Did you loo k for any sou rce cod ing fo r
w h a t ki.nd o f t ec h fko.Log y it i s .
5
6
89
da t a c o mp res s .
i.o n t e(7#1no 1o (
gy ?
3
4
-)
01:29
THE W ITNESS :
He keeps using the term
wrong .
THE COURT :
A 11 right .
Rephrase your
question and then we'll go from there.
LIZA CHAPENr CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
'
*-')
-
-7
X
. -
90
B Y M R . FL Y NN :
Q.
In the computers , as you s it here todayz
at eTreppid Techno loqy, is there source coding fo r
data compression technology ?
A.
I have no idea what we 've recove red .
Q.
You don 'b know ?
A.
It cou kcl be .
8
9
W e haven 't gone thro ugh it all .
actua lly -- working w ihh 1aw enfo rcem ent o fficials,

they don 't want u s to tamper w ith any more of the
11
evidence o f trying to recover this .
Q.
haven 't go ne through it all, there could b e tens of
14
thousands of source codes for data comp ression
15
techno logy alone on the eTrepp id computers; is that
16
correct ?
A.
MR. JAKOPIN: Objection; confusing.
19
THE W ITNESS :
on ao
THE CCURT :
22
THE W ITN FSS :
24
That doesn bt really make
sense --
21
23
01:30
T h a t d o e sn 't r e a ll y m a ke s e ns e .
18
20
01:30
So as you sit here today , since you
13
17
01:z9
We 've
10
12
1
.
k
We ll , 1 fm not sure --
-- wha t you fre saying , but
maybe you can c larify it .

THE COURT :
Ho ld on .
Stop .
Stop .
(775) 323-5492
....
91
I 'm 11O L S L1r O t ha t i h lV e t he u IRd C)C S12ilI

Rd i nV
yet to make a dete rmination as to whe the r or not it 's
confusing.
that 1 would sustain , anyway .
l'm not sure that that's an objection
So i'
.'m qoinq to allow th is testimony for
w hatever it 's wo rth so it he lp s m e get educated about
what the ssues irz th is case a re .
8
9
betw een sou rce code , singular, source code, p lural,
10
and w hethe r we tre talking abou t line s o f source code
11
and lines o f d ata codes
12
codes , but I want to learn a little bit more about
13
this, and so allow ing m e to listen to th is helps me
14
to do that .
So i f you 'd indulge me a litt le b it,

p lea se , 1 'd like to hear a little m ore about this .
17
B Y M R . FL Y NN :
Q.
are , I think as you put it , hund reds of source codes
20
for th e video g ame techno logy that you wo rked on that
21
are still at eTrepp id ; is that correct?

A.
01:31
M r . Venab les , we bve establ ished that there
19
22
on al
as opposed to separate
16
18
e1:3o
1 Im beginn ing to see tha t the re 's an issue
15
'
;
w$
We 've recovered hundred s of files that
23
were de leted .
What the conten ts of those files or
24
what -- if the re j
I:5 actually any cod es , we know that
(775) 323-5492
n1:31

&$
l
some file s have zero contents because they were wiped
c le a n .
S o th e re 's a fi le n am e bu t ze ro c od e is
within th at fi ke .
Q.
We lre just talking about the video qame
A.
The video gam e?
Q.
Yeah, just the video game .
A.
W e haven 't --
10
Q.
Are there hundreds of source codes just on
11
the video gam e, as you testified befo re , that are
12
st ill on the eT repp id --
14
A.
That ss like saying there 's hundreds o f
What you 're saying doesn 't m ake any sense
01:32
in any wa y .
17
THE COURT : Well, hold on just a second .
18
THE W ITNESS :
19
THE COURT :
20
THE W ITNESS :
21
THE CO URT :
22
T HE W ITNESS :
23
THE COURT :
:4
01:31
tom atoes in the v ideo game .
15
16
01:31
now .
13
92
We have a11 --
Stop .
-- the video --
01:32
Stop .
-- game file s .
When 1 say ho ld on , I m ean
stop .
-
'
(775) 323-5492
'

93
You gs
pt a
iuli?
..-.--.-.--
T H E W 1't'N K SS :
O ka y .
T H El C!OIJ3)T :
- --- ..-
A 1 1 ri(g)t .
. ...--
b0th of you to do is to try to allow the other one to
finish .
Th is is not like norm al conversat ion .
to get dow n w hat ls being sad , and I know tha t ih 's
not an easy th tng to do if you lre not used to it .
So , p lease , if he 's asking a question , let
10
h im finish it .
11
finish it .
12
If he 's ma king an answer , let him
just want to try to deal with this issue right now .

So gc) ahead , please .
15
MR . FLYNN :
17
Thank you , you r Honor .
Q.
M r . Venables , let 's try it this way .

You say you have found de leted files o f
source code ; is that correct ?
20
A.
Co rrect .
21
Q.
Have you found de lete d files o f source
22
23
o1;a2
code on you r v ideo gam e technology ?

A.
1 said in the begin ning , those files were
'
24
01:32
BY MR . FLYNN :
18
19
01:32
A nd : 'm so rry for the interruption r but 1
14
16
Q::32
W e 've Jot a court reporte r he re that 's goL
13
----- -.
-
W h at. I w o u 1d 1 i-k e
j.
neve r deleted .
(775) 323-5492

,.-
1
(
Q.
Have you found deleted fi les o f source

code on data comp re ssion technology ?
A.
I have found de leted folders fo r a program
called ET Adaptive , wh ich 1 be l.ieve is the data
comp ression prog ram .
Q.
What make s you be lieve that?
A.
Because I asked the p rogr ammer, V en ka , who
9
10
com pression .
Q.
A nd when you say you found dele ted filesz
you found files -- you saw som ething that showed you
13
that th e file s were once there and now they pre not
14
the re?
O r did you recover them ?

A.
16
Some zocations, we d idn 't recover them .
r e co v e r ed fi l e n am e s b u t ze ro c on t e n t s in th e fi Ye s .
18
On the server , I 've recov ered the folders
20
01:33
L ike the p rogramm ers l ma ch ines , they
17
/9
01:33
12
15
01:33
was wo rking on it what it 's used for and he sa id data
11
j
'
:4
Tha rlk yo u .
2
3
and aome of the files but not all of the files.

Q.
O kay .
On video com pre ssion technology
21
software, have you found any files at eT repp id -- on
22
eTrepp id com pute rs that were never deleted ?
23
A.
No.
24
nave you looked?
(775) 323-5492
01:34

--';
'w
95
'
. .- -
1
f
A.
m ach ine in the bu tlding .
Q.
For v ideo compression?
A.
Ry lideo comp ression, 1 assume that you 're
talking about the video Codec that we use .
The re 's various names for it .
o f them , b ut w e haven 't found any o f those on
anybody 's work stations o r the serve r .
t don 't rem ember a1l
Q.
Have you made any e ffort to rec over those
12
A.
Ye s, I have .
13
Q.
What did you do?
14
A.
From the SRCSERV KR , we 're running the
p rog ram m ade b y Execut iv e Software c alled Emergency
16
Und elete .
17
Q.
And have you recovered any o f them ?
18
A.
l 've got some folders w ith th e nam es of
It 's made for recovering deleted file s .
We h aven 't gone th rouqh a11 o f them yet .
21
It 's st ill run ning .
22
piece th ese p ieces together .
24
H :3s
th e v ideo Codec s .
20
23
01:34
files?
15
19
ETVC is one
o f them .
10
ERV P is anothe r one .
:1:34
11
We loo ked on every
'
W e ''ze looked a11 over .
Q.
It ta kes wee ks and wee ks to
That 's how I understand it .
How many files have you recovered to date
(775) 323-5492
01:35

'
.. .
and how long -- how m any fi le s have you recovered to
date on the video compression technology?
3
4
96
1 just have a total
num ber o f gigab ytes that l 've recovered .
What is that?
A.
About 40 to 50 giqabytes have b een
t have no idea.
Q.
'
A.
'
.
w..
01:35
r e co v e re d .
Q.
How long has that recove ry p rogram been
running?
10
A.
Sin ce January 12th .
01:as
11
Q.
A nd how long w ill it -- it will take weeks
12
longer to cont inue ho run it to recov er files; is
13
th a t co r r e ct ?
14
A.
By Lhe current rate , p robably .
15
Q.
Okay . A nd is that technology, the
16
recovery technoiogy going to enab le you to recover
17
al1 o f the sou rce codes on the video comp ression
18
te chnology ?
19
A.
I have no idea .
20
Q.
You don 't know ?
21
A.
No .
22
Q.
How m any source cod es, what you describe
ozta6
23
as sou rce codes have you recovered to date on the
24
video compression technology?
LIZA CfG PEN, CCR, RMR
01:a6
(775) 323-5492

.1.
,.J
'%q,
..r
()/
.---- ----------
A.
I just have the recovered folders and

Cilesr and nobod y has access to t r igh t now .
n o t ev e n p lu g g e d in t o o u r ne tw o r k .
Q.
Why no t?
A.
W e d on 't w an t to c o r rup t a n y th i ng .
It 's
01:36
We
want to p reserve the state that it was in at the
poin t o f d elet ion .
Q.
10
Just yes or no .
Did you ev er have a conv ersation w ith
11
Mr . Trepp instruc ting you to go into Mr . Montgomery fs
12
work station and try to recover classified
13
info rmation o r classified source cod es?
14
A.
He a sked m e to recover w hat files I could
find , in p art icular the e-m ail files which I d id
16
recove r .
17
Q.
What d id you do to try to recov er?
18
A.
I ran the sam e program I already talked
20
21
:1:36
15
19
I have no idea .
--
01:37
about , Fme rgency Undelete .
Q.
And just yes or no.
0z:37
Did yo u ev er have a conve rsation with
22
M r . M ontgom ery about a certain gove rnm ental agency
23
requiring intrusion d evices on a11 o f the equipment
24
Mr. Montgomery was working on?
(775) 323-5492

..,.
,
A.
N ev e r .
Q.
Do you know what an intrusion device is?
A.
Yes .
Q.
What is an intrusion device?
A.
lt de tects i f someb ody is try ing to get
into the th ing , and i. t w ill usua Lly 1og it ; try to
bloc k it and log it .
Q.
know ledge o f whatever governmental interact ion

M r . M ontgome ry had to estab lish tntrusion dev ices
11
that would sel f-destru ct any in formation on
12
M r . Montgomery fs equipment?
14
A.
(.
01:38
I have no know ledge o f any of h ks
inte ractions .
15
I know what 's on a1l the machine s in the
16
building .
17
Q.
18
01:37
Does -- so as I unde rst and it f you have no
10
13
j)(y
l 've got orte on ou r C ksco route r .
-..-.,
on aa
Do you know whether or not there is an
intrusion dev ce on M r . Montgome ry 's wo rkp lace --
19
A.
No, there 's no such --
20
Q.
-- computers, that if anyon e tries to
21
access without c erta in codes , self-de structs al1 the
22
material in the computers?
23
A.
There 's no such thing .
24
Q.
To you r knowledge ?
(775) 323-5492
n1:38

.-x-99
1
A.
'
l'o m y' krlo w 1e d q e a nd o11h e r s in t h e b u i ld in g
that l 'v e con sulted :
Tenneti .
4
5
Q.
Did eT repp id do aud io compression

technolog y?
A.
Yes .
Q.
Do you have any know ledge o f w hat
10
percentage o f the busine ss w as aud io com pression
11
techno logy ?
12
A.
1 have no idea .
13
Q.
And 1 La ke it you don lt know what kind of
A.
No .
16
Q.
Did you ev er do work on aud io compression
01:39
te ch n o lo g y ?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
In the last several weeks, have you made
20
an effort to exam ine the com puters of eTrepp id to
21
determ ine whether any aud io com pression techn ology
22
software file s are presen t or not present ?
23
24
nliag
revenue the audio comp ression technology generated?
15
17
01:38
14
'
Let 's La lk about audio com pression
technology .
6
7
Jessie Ande rson , Lalith
A.
We 've loo ked fo r what we call ETA C ,
eTrepp id Aud io Codec or com pression
and none of our
(775) 323-5492
ol:3a

.... .
..- .
10()
yI
prog ramm ers ' work stations, none o f the machines out
in the wa rehouse have it .
1 be lieve I've recovered a folder o r two
from SRCSERVER , but 1 don t know w hat the contents
a re .
6
7
Q.
A.
It doesn 't loo k for any particu lar kind of
Q.
been recovered r if you knowr in audio comp ression
14
technology software?
15
17
18
So h as any -- have any source code files
13
16
01:4a
file; it just looks for any deleted files.
12
W e 're zecovering any and a11 files that we
can find on SRCSERV RR that have been deleted .
10
11
A re you running any recovery technology
for any aud io com pression software ?
8
9
01:39
A.
The re ls a couple of folders that are fo r
Q.
O kay .
01:40
ETAC .
And that 's currently o n the
compan y 's p rem ises?
19
A.
Yes .
20
Q.
Now, Irm just going to use three different
21
descriptive terms and 1111 just ask you some
22
yes-o r-no qu estions .
O kay?
23
A.
O kay .
24
ob ject track.
i.nq .
(775) 323-5492
ol:4n

-.. .)
'%.. .
10 1.
.-
.-
DO you know, ye s or no , whether eT reppid
Techno logie s has ang government contracts with regard
to object tracking?
A.
Yes .
Q.
Have you ever done any computer
A.
No .
Q.
Have you ever had access to any of the
source codes for object tracking'

?
10
A.
No .
11
Q.
Wh o at eTreppid has had access to the
12
13
01:41
programmng on object tracking?
01:41
source codes for object tracking?

A.
A person l mentioned beforey Krishna.
14
- -
Zehang Sun is working on it w ith a team o f
15
peop le downsta krs, in our down stars a rea which 1
16
haven 't m ent ion ed yet .
17
d ow n t h e r e .
18
majority of them are working on that stuff.
01:41
We have anothe r ten peop le
A l1 o f th em - - no t a Y l o f t h em , b u t a
19
Q.
Under Mr . Montgom ery 's superv ision?
20
A.
Yes .
21
Q.
A nd is it true to say that each o f these
n1:4l
22
indiv iduals has on ly h ad bit s and p ie ces , and only
23
M r . M ontgom ery has the full p icture of what 's being
24
worked on?
(775) 323-5492

1
'-. ,
..1O2
A.
I hav e no idea how he de legated .
Q.
That's a11 classified; is Lhat correct?
A.
How he delegates isn dt c la ssified ; only
the cla ssified m a te rial .
Q.
The wo rk heing done i:; a11 c lassified?
A.
They can work on a1 L kind s o f p rogram , but
the classified materia l which we rece ive ftom the
qove rnm ent agency is c lassified .
So they can program on wh atever the y want ,
10
but they can 't h andle -- they can 't see classified
11
mater ial because none o f them have clearances .
12
Q.
On ly M r. Montgomery?
13
A.
Correct .
14
15
clearances in the bu ilding .
So to you r knowledge , were they doing line
18
A.
Yes, they were .
19
Q.
Bit s and piece s?
20
A.
They were w orking on whatever ; I have no
22
23
01:42
Q.
21
24
01:42
W el l, w e have -- six peop le have
16
17
01:42
co d i n g ?
idea what they we re doing exactly .
Q.
On ave rage , how m any codes can a
programmer d o a day?
How many line codes could a programmer do
(775) 323-5492
0z:42
-.-2
2
3
A. 1 have no idea what the -- a 1ot of it is

edihing pre-ex st ing lines r not generating new lines .
So ( wauld say the ma jority of the days

are spent on twea king and m odifying existing lines.
Q.
10
11
To you r knowledge, did eT repp id Technology

have any cla ss ified governm ent contracts w ith regard
to p attern re cogn it ion technology?
A.
01:4a
We only have one classified con tract , to
my know led ge , and that 's -- that 's in our file on
13
record .
15
Q.
so you don 't even - - do you know what
patte rn recogn ttion technology is ?
Yes or no?
16
A.
Ye s .
17
Q.
A nd to your know ledge , you don 't even --
18
you hav e no awareness, as you sit he re today, of what
19
eTrepp id was doing on pattern recognition ?
20
A.
I have bits and pieces of what I lve seen
21
going on in th e building, b ut I don 't have the full
22
p icture .
23
1 fm qo ing to use another descriptive term ,
12
14
24
91:43
and 1'11 just ask for yes or no.
8
9
1()a
per day?
4
5
..-
Q.
Do you have any idea how many source codes
have ever exiyted on pattern recognition technology?
(775) 323-5492
on xa
01:44

.... j
..101
/
m -
No , I lave no idea .
Q.
Do you have any idea w here any o f those
s o u r ce c od e s co u ld e ve r b e fo u nd a n yw he r e ?
A.
We1 G
f we go by what Dennis told me, a11
the source code is on SRCSERVER .
contents o f the SRCSERVER were by file , number o f
files, and total file size .
8
9
10
Q.
12
13
1 know what the
So this is just based on what
A.
R ight .
01:44
If he sa id it 's not there , if he 's saying

it 's not the re , then I would have no idea .
Q.
Have you ever seen any of the contracts
14
M r . Trepp and Mr . Mo ntgomery s igned w ith a ce rta in
15
governmental aqency with regard to either object
16
trac king or p atte rn recognition techno logy?
17
18
19
20
01:44
M r . M ontgome ry to Ld you?
11
..
A.
(
1
.- -
- -
A.
01:44
If you 're talking about sp ec ial access
program stuff, no , I don 't hav e an y knowledge of it .
Q.
So you h av e no know ledge of the term s of
any of those contracts?
01:4s
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
And with regard to M r . M ontgomery 's
23
sup erv ision techn iques of the peop le working under
24
himy the programmers , you have no kn owledge o f what
(775) 323-5492

1
..,.,
xxr.
1()5
y
('
he was allowed to share and what he wa s not al lowed
to share in o rder to get the work done ; is that
correct?
A.
I have no idea .
Q.
1'm going to use another term, and just
answer y es o r no z please .
7
8
9
10
11
12
Hav e you
ever heard th at term at eTrilppid Tech nolog ies?

A.
Y es .
T 've seen the work in progress being
done by the p eople downstairs .
Q.
01:4s
Have you eve r seen the source codes for
facial rec ogn ition techno loqy?
A.
No , I h aven 't .
14
Q.
Who wa s the individual at eT repp id that
16
17
was do ing th e wor k on facial recognit ion technology?
A.
Zehang Sun 's team .
p e op le w o r ki n g u n d e rn e at h h im .
Q.
Under the supervision of Mr. Montgomery?
19
A.
R ight .
20
Q.
A nd have yo u, in any recovery p rogram
21
you 've been implem enting , m ade an effort to recover
22
any sou rce codes for facial recognit ion technology ?
24
:1:46
He has a team o f
18
23
'
Fac La l recogn ition tech no lg y .
13
15
onds
A.
A s 1 said , we 're not looking for any -- we
cantt look by any particular technology, just by
(775) 323-5492
01:46

.ww.)
Q.
M r . Montgomery 's compute rs , som e of which are, in
fact z a certa in governmental ag ency 's comp uters ; is
that co rrect?
M R . PEEK :
91:46
Counsel , 1 can 't see the
Witness .
THE W ITNESS ;
None o f those m achines out
the re hav e been certified for (rlassified mate rial , if
10
tha t s what you 're asking .
11
BY M R . FL YNN :
12
13
Q.
01:46
A s you sit here today , are you aware that
a certa in qov ernme ntal agency b rought kn computers?
14
A.
Yes .
15
Q.
Have you attempted to access those
16
01:47
computers?
17
A.
Th e y to o k th o se com p u t er s b a c k a w ay .
18
Q.
When did they do that?
19
A.
L ast year sometim e , 1 believe .
20
So you just went on a11 of
('
106
file , d eleted fili

a.
'..-:
La s t
spring .
:::47
21
Q.
A nd they took the source codes w ith them ?
22
A.
I don 't believe so .
23
hardware .
24
Q.
They just took
W ere the source code s on the hardware?
(775) 323-5492

.s,
.w
A.
M r . Morttgom ery had me make a p rogram that
would delete a1L the hard drives in al1 the computers
w e g av e b a c k t o th em .
Q.
So it 's your testim ony today that all
those source codes at eT repp id were taken b y the
go v e rn m e n t ?
A.
one was called .
w iping a11 those hard drives .
10
Q.
12
13
No .
It 's a DO D ce rtified program for
THE COURT :
Is this a good time to take a
llttle break?
M R . FLY N N :
S u re .
15
THE: COURT :
W e fve b een going not quit e tw o
17
M R . FL YN N :
J us t on e qu e s t i on z y o u r H on o r ?
18
THE COURT :
Sure .
19
20
Go ahead .
BY MR . FLYNN :
Q.
So to you r kn owledge, what is left at
eTreppid w ith regard to the source codes fo r that
22
technology that was w ip ed out?
24
01:48
hours .
21
23
01:47
So what was le ft?
14
16
01:47
We ran A ctive Kill, I be lieve Lhat
Those were a11 given bac k clean slate .
11
1.()y
2
4
A.
I hav e no idea what source code was used
for that project.
LIZA CHAPENZ CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
n1:4a

ee .)
...
10()
/'
M R . FLY N N :
T h a n k y ou , y o u r H o no r .
T HE COURT :
A 11 right .
until -- le t 's m ake it five a fter 11 :00 .
(Re cess taken .)
T H E CO U BT :
P le a se b e s ea t ed .
M R . FLYNN :
Thank you, your Honor .
T HE COUPT :
Oh , by th way , before you
1 '11 file that in w ith the c lerk .
10
11
And then when you conform Lhe eop ies , give
M R . FLYNN :
THE COURT :
15
Go ahead .
17
18
19
It 's n ice
Doesn lt hurt .
02:07
BY M R . FLYNN :
Q.
Mr . V enab les
how m any hard d rives are
there at eTrep pid T echnology?

A.
I don 't know .
1 -- since I purcha sed them
20
all , I shou ld know an accurate numbe r, b ut we lve
21
bought m an y, m any hund red s .
22
23
T hank, your Honor .
to b e lega l for a change .
14
16
24
02:06
them the copies , tloo , please .
12
13
92:06
sharty I d o have an order permit tinq you to pract ice .
Le t 's be in recess
I w ould say , total , we p robab ly have about

a thousand , bu t no more than 2000 .
fa .
H a z.d drlve s ?
LIZA CHAPEINr CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
:2::7

s...
...
1o9
('
A.
Y e ah .
Q.
How many files are on those hard drives?
A.
W e fv e go t - -
Q.
You r best estimate?
A.
We bve got p lenty that only have a couple
o f file s in them in our file cab inets in the
warehou se .
8
9
Q.
O r can you ?
A.
1 can 't estimate .
11
Q.
How m any computers do you have at eTreppid
13
Technology ?
A.
On m y netw ork , 1 have less than a hundred z
b ut we pve go t pzenty of other ones that are not in
15
use or --
16
02:07
14
17
02:07
Col le ctive ly / how many wou ld you e stimate?
10
12
t
C o r re ct .
02:08
Sayy total , 200 or less computers .
Q.
If 1 suqgested to you there were over
18
150 m illion files on eTreppid Technology com puters,
19
wou ld you d isagree?
20
A.
No .
21
Q.
But you don 't know ?
22
A.
I wou ld say --
23
Q.
Y ou can 't give u s you r b est estim ate?
24
A.
Since T 've seen a 1ot o f the files we 've
n2:0a
(775) 323-5492

hag-'
(
'
1J.(j
been going ove r the l.ast couple of weeks on most o f
these hard drives in the warehouse and what have you,
a lo t of them have ind ivi.dua l fram es of video , so a
s ing le frame for every second, or less than 30 frames
a se cond they we re recorded at, so you r number of a
million or more would be accurate becau se it conta ins
a 1o t of these v jdeo frames .
Q.
Well r L50 m illion?
A.
Right .
10
Q.
How m any of the 150 m illion have you
11
c h e c ke d t o d a t e ?
12
A.
02::8
In the past two wee ks, sin ce the 10th ,
I've looked at just about every hard drive in the
14
building .
15
Q.
17
How m any files have you chec ked to date,
A.
1 h a v e n 't op en e d ev e ry s i n g le fi le .
I #d
say I 'd op en a folder and it has like a thousand
19
frames of somethingr Ifl1 just look at the first one
20
and then go to som ething else .
Q.
02:09
So o f the 150 million filesw can you tell
22
the Court today how m any are still on the eT repp id
23
comp uters that have never been de leted ?
24
02:09
o f the 150 m ill ion?
18
21
oz:oa
That 's --
13
16
w'
I 'd say about 80 percent a re not source
(775) 323-5492
y.,.x
)
1
code and those aren 't de leted .
Q.
Now, perhap s it was an ove rsiqht of m ine,
but as T u nderstand it , there is a fa irly significant
little structure zgh t there on eT repp id prem ises : is
there not?
A.
10
11
o2:n9
In Lhe downstairs -- center of the
downsta irs a rea, our little private room ?
Q.
Yes .
Could you -- would gou indulge me and put
it whe re you thin k it should go , the pr ivate room ?

A.
the bu ilding here ; it 's abou t located c enter
13
downstairs .
14
Q.
Have you ever been in the p rivate room ?
15
A.
Yes .
16
Q.
How m any t im es?
17
A.
In t h e p a st t w o w ee k s , I 'v e s pe n t a lo t o f
19
20
02:10
time th ere .
Q.
Before the p ast two w ee ks , h ow m any time s
w ere yo u in the p rivate room ?
02:10
21
A.
V ery little .
22
Q.
W ho had access to the p rivate room at
23
eTreppid?
24
02:10
Tt 's underneath -- say this is the rest of
12
18
11l
'
x- ;
Warren and Dennis and Patty and some
LIZA CHAPIEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

..,
.x
1
Q. Just ii you can give me a number, how many
of those outside government peop Le that had access Lo
the priv at e room have you ever dea lh with?
A.
1 d ealt with two o f them a 1ot recently ,
O th er than that, wM had some with the
specia l access program .
requ la rly .
10
1 dea lh with a1l of them
I hacl to know who they were com ing and
11
going out of the buildng . They can 't just get to
12
that room without com ing through our -- one of our
13
outside doors.
14
15
Q.
These government people you 've dealt w ith
A.
No .
18
Q.
Who at eTreppid do you know contacted
A.
Jay Dixon actually is the guy w ith DSL .
21
22
23
24
02:11
Did you ?
17
20
02:11
in the last two wee ks , who contacted them ?
16
19
:2:10
and I 've dealt with them in the past .
11.2
o u t s id e g c)ve r n me n t. p (aop 1.e .
..
v
them ?
b rought him in there .

But out side that , there are governm ent
people that Wa rren contacted .
Q. Who --
LTZA CHAPEN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
n2:11

),..'
.)
w .
113
S t r i ke tha t .
You (3e)'sona11y contacted Jay Dixon?
A.
basis since he 's our rep resentat ive with our facility
clearance .
Q.
W hat is in the p rivate room?
A.
A couple of tables , a coup le of computers,
and a coup le o f secure conta iners; safes .
9
10
Q.
A.
12
13
The -- one of them wa sn 't even plugged in .
was on it .
Q.
What was on it?
Just in term s of a
genera l d escription ?
16
A.
02:12
Basically just operating system and
17
M ic ro so ft O f f ic e a nd a cc e ss t o t he In te r ne t ; n o th in g
18
else .
19
20
21
02:12
The other one was running and I saw what
14
15
A nd have you made an effort in the last
several wee ks to access those comp uters ?
11
Q.
O kay .
Did you ma ke any effort to access
any o f th e files on e ither o f these two computers?
A.
22
n2:l1
W ezl, it wa s -- we 're on a regular contact
No .
I just saw what was on them .
I conne cted one o f them to th e Internet .
23
Q.
Did you b ring Mr . Dixon into that room ?
24
A. He requested to go there to see where our
(775) 323-5492
02:12

......
containers were .
Q.
....y
114
Now, I believe you had previously
testified that these computtqrs dow n here be long to
eTrepp id ?
A.
I 'm awa re hh at some o f them w ere paid fo r
by variou s government agencies; I don 't know which
one s belong to us / wh i.ch ohe s don 't .
Q.
that these belong to eT reppid?

A.
1 don lt b elieve 1 said that .
11
Q.
Okay .
02:13
How many com puters are there in
12
th is ban k here next to Mr . M ontgom ery 's w ork station ?
13
A . Currently, there 's like 30 or less.
14
Q.
16
A nd do you have any knowledge of who owns
tho se 30 or less compute rs?

A.
17
18
02:13
There 's two banks, actually .

M R . PE E K :
Co u n se l , I c a n t se e th e
w itness .
19
THE W ITNESS :
20
The one ban k I 'm describing there is the
There 's tw o banks .
21
o ne that Dennis wor ked on regu larly .
22
bank that's just along the same wall that had a11 our
23
security cam eras hooked -- connected to it .
24
02:13
Just -- d id you testify befo re the break
10
15
'
They 're the same kind of
- -
The re 's another
s am e ex a ct
(775) 323-5492
n2:l3
yev
e')
j
'
c om p u t er , sam e e x ac t c ab in e ts .
BY M R . F L YN N :
3
4
Q.
The question agajn ts, who ow ns hh ose
A.
1 have no idea .
I know 1 pu rchased al L of them and
eT repp id pa id for a11 of them .
Were paid for through outside contraets .
know .
11
12
Q.
I don 't
Do you know whether there are any source
A.
02:14
The surveillance compute rs don 't have
13
anything , and -- don 't have anything excep t for v ideo
14
record ing softwaze , which is outside third-party .

This bank of com puters has noth ing on them
16
anymore .
17
a nd t h e re 's n o th in g on a ny o f th em .
02:14
Warren and I went and looked o n each one
18
Q.
Who --
19
A.
Just operat ing system .
20
Q.
Who else was in the room when you tried to
21
I don 't know if they
code s in tho se corap uters?
15
(.
:2:13
10
j.1jj
compuhers?
-g-
look on th ose computers?
22
A.
Just Wa rren and me .
23
Q.
Ancl you found nothing?
24
A.
Tha t ,:5 co r re c t .
(775) 323-5492
02:14

.. .
.w
)' )
1
Q.
A.
We just logqed on and looked ho see what
was on the drives and there was nothing; just
operating system .
Q.
10
A.
A nd every sinqle fi le on a 1l 30 computers
We do a regular partition o f drive space r
so the sp ace where data s kept , the ''E'' partit kon
had nothing on it ; ze ro files .
11
12
02:14
had nothing?
8
9
Q.
02:1s
Now , this 80 percent of the files , the
150 million files hhat are sti Ll at er

rreppid.
13
A.
U h -huh .
14
Q.
How many of those have source codes?
15
A.
None o f them .
Q.
I be Lieve you te stified that the g am e
16
17
&1(;
What d id you do to t ry to access any of
They /re al1 samp le test
engines fo r your v ideo prog ram , there were about a
19
hund red source code files still at eTrepp id , co r r ec t ?

A.
21
22
23
24
02:15
files .
18
20
the source codes jn those computers?
On M ichael 's m achine .
oz:zs
The se aren 't any o f th e other drives I 've

loo ked throughout the building .
Q.
Now , I understand that , but ove rall in th e
computers, there's about a hundred source codes just
LIZA CIIAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

1.-.
.
-;
117
1
fo r the video gam es that are sti kl the re?
2
3
A . Tw o har'cl drives : M '

g lnachi.ne and Michae1 's
m a c h in e .
Q.
And --
A.
I be l.ieve there m igh h b e a coup le in the
SRCSERVER shill .
Q.
A copy on the SRCSERVER ?
A.
C o r re c t .
Q.
Le t m e show you you r Decla ration
under the penalties of perjury . It was filed in this
11
case .
MR . FLYNN :
Honor, there 's no date on it , it 's b lan k, but there ls
14
a signature, but it fs among th e documents that we re
15
filed to support the TRO .
17
02:z6
THE COURT :
A 11 right .
MR . FLYNN :
You 've got it , your Honor?
Go ahead .
I 've
got it .
18
19
o2:z6
On the copy I have, your
13
16
s igned
10
12
n2:1s
BY MR . FLYNN :
20
Q.
Did you prep are this Declaration?
21
A.
Ye s .
22
Q.
Did you , you rself, persona lly type it up ?
23
A.
No .
24
Q. Did you prepare it in conjunction with
LIZA CfG PEIN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
02:16
)
.....x;
.
A . Yes.
Q.
w
ux..
tl
-
11i
)
..
Now , you say in paraqraph 11, page three ,
bottom of the p age .
''Fr tlm t h i.s ch ec k '' - -
Th i s wa s a f te r yo u re t:u rned f rom va cat ion .
02:17
Yo u ca n re a d a 1o ng w it h me .
'
A.
O ka y .
Q.
''F'rtlm th i s che c k , I det e rmine d tha t a l 1 o f

-
10
the eT repp i d s()u r c e code st o r ed o n e ach o f th e s e
11
se rver s h a d b e ()n d e le ted .''
12
A.
Rigt1t .
13
Q.
Is that truth ful?
14
A.
It ds a little bit of an overstatem ent
15
since the gam e engine , khere 's a copy o f the game
16
engine probab ly still there .
17
18
19
20
Q.
22
02:17
n2:17
And how much -- how many o f the files have
you no t even chec ked yet ?

A.
Th e rest of the folders were completely
deleted .
02:17
21
c ou n s e l fo r eT re pp d ?
If I cou ld exp lain the w ay the structure

of the ha rd driv e is .
23
Q.
Su re .
24
A. We have four main folders on that
(775) 323-5492

'
f'
SRCSERVER .
the source code, except for the game engine, was
stored .
1'9
The one called KT Latest was where all o f
The game engine, Michae l and 1 kept as a
separate bac kup .
he and 1, it was only he and I hhat kep t backups of
it r and Denn is wa s aqreable w tth this .
8
9
10
12
13
We ddn ft -- slkn ce it only involved
unde r this ET Latest fo lder and ET Developm ent

folde r .
o2:la
Those fclders were de Leted , comp letely
dele hed out ; noth ing ex isted underneath tho se .
Q. But since you were never given prior
14
access, as for the source codes for object tracking,
15
patte rn recogn ition, and face recognit ion , you
16
wouldn 't even know what source codes to look for,
17
w o u ld y o u ?
18
A.
I don 't know if they we re ev er there .
19
wouldn 't know .
20
were called .
21
02:18
I don 't know what the actual p rog ram s
o2:1a
There 's a couple hundred dif feren t
22
projects underneath that, that were underneath that
23
ET Latest fo lder .
24
oz:ta
A 11 the rest of the source code w as kept
11
Q. So, again, you don't know whether they
(775) 323-5492

I
1
f
were ever there , correct?

Co rrect .
Q.
You clon 't know whether the government took
them , correct ?
A.
Co rrect .
Q.
And if they were ever hhere, you have no
02:19
knowledge of how they everz ah some point, were not
there ?
10
11
A.
Well: Jf they were never the re z 1 have no
idea i f they disappeared , co rrect .
Q.
12
If the assumption is at some point they

were there , w ithout. using the word d eleted, yo u have
14
no know ledge o f how , at some po int , they were there
15
and then no t there?
17
18
A.
02:19
I could only tell you what was there based
o n w ha t l .m re c ov e r in g .
Q.
And you were never given access --
19
Strike that .
20
You never h ad a conv ersation w ith
21
M r. Mon tgom ery about the methodology of the intru sion
22
d etection device s that the government w anted to p ut
23
on these computers and these comp uters, did you?
24
o2:t9
R ight .
13
16
4.
*
'
120
A.
No.
(775) 323-5492
02:19

'
w.4
1
MR . FLYNN :
A nd for Lhe record , when 1
said these computers, I was referring to the 30 or so
c om p u t e rs ne x t to M r . M o n tg om e ry 's w o r k st a t i on a nd
t he tw o comp uters in the so-called private area .
T HE CO UHT :
Tn Exhib it 1?
M R . FLYNN :
On Exhibit 1.
Than k you , your Honor .
Q.
Who we re the p rogramm ers downstairs that
10
you re ferred to ?
11
A.
You wa nt the list by nam e?
12
Q.
Yes .
13
A.
Krishna Tangirala that 1 mentioned before.
oa:2o
''C h :J'' --
l5
Q.
A r e h is f i 1e s m i s si ng ?
16
A.
Yes .
17
h a r d d r i ve w h en I c am e b a c k f rom m y t r ip .
Q.
And the next one?
19
A.
Chucai Huang .
20
Q.
A re h is files m issing ?
21
A.
He s wo rking on som eth ing that I don 't
even kn ow what it is , so I cou ldn 't tell you .
23
Some other peop le checked his machine ; I
'
.
24
()2:20
His hard drive had a comp letely new
18
22
02:2:
BY MR . FLYNN :
14
12l
s
>n..y
')
.
didn't.
(775) 323-5492
02:20
'
( N)
(
' )
l22
t'
Q.
individual's ftles are missing or not?
A.
No, I can 't say for s ure .
Q.
W ho is the next p rog ramme r?
A.
Such ita Samant .
Q.
A re his files missinq ?
A.
Tha t fs a lady .
8
9
me , as we ll .
10
Q.
So you don 't know?
11
A.
I don lt know .
13
14
15
16
17
02:21
She has reported to somebody else besides
12
But yo u don 't know whe ther th is
02:21
Then - -
Q.
When you say ''al1'' in youz Declaration,
were you referring to the ir file s, too?

A.
I was talking about the two servers I had
02:21
under m y contro L.
Q.
And f o f cou rse f you neve r had under your
18
con trol th e 30 or so computers next to
19
Mr . Montg om ery 's wo rk station on Exh ib it 1 and the
20
private a rea ; is that correct?
02:21
21
A.
Correct .
22
Q.
And who is the next ind ividual?
23
A.
Zehang Sun .
24
Q.
We re his files m issing ?
(775) 323-5492
()
(
A.
He had his hard d rive taken away from him .
Q.
By who?
A.
He sa id by Dennis .
Q.
So right now , th ts individual has no hard
d r iv e ?
02:22
A.
He had h is wo rk-in-progress hard drive
removed - - the removable drive taken out .
operating system drive is in the re .
Q.
Were there any files on that?
10
A.
No .
11
Q.
Who is the nex t individua l?
12
A.
N o t th a t 1 kn ow o f .
13
14
His
02:22
No h th a t I kno w o f .
The next one in the room is -- I on ly

rem ember h is first name , Yong Mian .
15
Q.
Were any of his files missing ?
16
A.
I don 't kn ow .
17
I only ta lked to mayb e three of th em .
19
them were spo ken to m y Jessie and Patty .
T he rest of
20
Q.
How m any p eople are there downstairs?
21
A.
There a re three more, in add it ion to the
23
24
02:22
I d id n 't - - h a l f o f t he p e op l e d ow n st a ir s ,
18
22
123
/1
ones I 've mentioned .
Q.
so since you rve never spo ke to them , you
don 't know whether any o f their files are m issing,
(775) 323-5492
02:22
()
.1
Vh
A.
I o n 1y
know what I was told by the others
who checked their computers .
A.
Right .
Q.
You ment ioned som ething about a 1aw
10
13
02:22
enfo rcem ent person com inq to eTreppid ?

A.
N o, I said !aw en forcement told m e not to
run the machine s anymore , some o f the machines that 1

was runn ing recove ry on .
11
12
124
e ither?
You don 't persona llg know?
a' )
Q.
:'
1.
.
j
'
- -
p2;2a
Th ey never cam e to the bu ild ing .
Q.
So you had a telephone conversation w ith
this p erson ?
14
A.
15
bu ild ing .
16
Q.
T went to go meet h im outs ide the
92:23
Who is this 1aw en forcemen t person ?
17
T H E W IT N E SS :
18
MR . PEEK :
Am I supp o s ed t o s a y ?
Your Honor, the law enforcem ent
19
individ ual s h ave asked us not to identify that there
20
is ongoing investigat ion , so he 's a little reluctant
21
to say that .
22
THE COURT :
23
MR . PEEK :
24
Well , you know --
So 1 know th is is sealed , so --
bu t the y a re co n c:e rne d .
(775) 323-5492
02:23

'
I1
1
f
'
Wel l, 1 think th at -- I mean ,
one o f the things that 1 was going to add ress here
be fore we too k ou r noon recess is th is w hole issue o f
classified in formahion, what leve l of classification
we 're talking abo ut, and fran kky, M r. Flynn , 1
thought I hea rd you say, and 1 m ade a note o f it,
that there 's goihg to be a ce rta in point at wh ich we
need to have this p rivate meeting , after wh ich th is
w ho le matter is going to or m ay go to Federal Court .
10
M R . FLYNN :
Yes, your Hono r .
11
THE COURT :
Am I m i sta ken about that?
12
MR . PEEK :
13
:2:24
,
,
don t thin k it s going to go to Federal Court .
THE COURT :
I know e but 1et me hear --
15
MR . FLYNN :
No , you r Ho no r, you rre not
16
m istaken and , ye s, your Honor y we are go ing to reach
17
th a t p o in t .
02:24
l 've now lea rned from th is w itness that he
19
doesn 't even know five percent enough of what we 're
20
talking ab out to test ify about it , and the only one ,
21
probably, is Mr . Montgomery .
22
Mr . T repp apparen tly do esn 't know , either .
23
So at some point , M r . T repp is going to
24
n2:23
Well , that 's what he sa id ; I
14
18
THE COURT :
Y25
have to be -- M r . Montgomery is go ing to h ave to be
(775) 323-5492
02:24

$- p '
( X
kv )
126
on the witness stand and he 's go ing ho have to go at
least to December '02 -- and 1'11 give you a copy of
th is ch ronology - . and we 're going to reach that
point a t that tim e because l was wondering if,
franklyz if this ind ividual knew enough --
T H E C O U RT :
W e l l , I gu e s s - -
M R . UL YN N :
-- a n d h e d o e s n 't .
THR COUPT :
Well, 1 gue ss there 's --
Let me fin ish th is conve rsation here .
10
What I 1m looking at is a coup le o f things .
11
Oner I 've certainly enjoyed your company,
12
gentlemen, very much, and 1 enjoy the issues; it's
13
kind o f an interesting case , but if th is ca se is
14
going to go somewhere else, then I d on 't w ant to sit
15
here and go through a half a d ay or a day of
16
testim ony about things that , you know , I 'm not go ing
17
t o b e a b l e t o u lt m at e ly d e c id e .
18
92:24
02:24
n2:2s
Secondly, i f there are th ings that are
19
classified or potent ially classified , 1 don 't have
20
enough understanding about those to m ake an y kind of
21
ruling whatsoever on it .
22
,
-
Th irdly , I would assume , and I d on 't know
23
this , but I would a ssum e that if the federa l
24
government had a concern, the federal government
(775) 323-5492
o2:2s
t )
would be here , or the U .S . Attorney 's o ffice would be
here
federal gove rnm ent or agency d irecting m e w ith rega rd
to how far this p zoce ss cou ld qo .
5
6
or we would have a court order from some
Unt il 1 get that , then any que st ion that 's
MR . PEEK : Your Honor, this was just

re lated to 1aw enforcem ent issues ; th is wasn 't
related to the Department o f Defense .
THE COURT :
Well, I -- whatev er it is,
o2:z6
11
unt il som ebody cites m e to a statute or until
12
som ebod y gives me a cou rt order tha h says this stuff
13
can 't b e discu ssed , then wh en a quest kon is asked ,
14
T lm go ing to o rder it to be an swered .
15
16
MR . PEEK :
We 're happy to 1e t h im answer,
T H E C O U RT :
So - -
18
MR. PEEK: I just was --
19
T HE COURT :
But b ac k to m y -- m y question
20
is, is there someone at the Depa rtment o f Defense or
21
the other federal agency w ith whom I should have a
22
discussion ab out what shou ld go forward in this case ?

A nd if so, I would ask you to have that
'
24
02:26
you r Ho nor .
17
23
02:2s
as ked is go ing t.o be answered , so --
10
127
individual contact me or to do something, because T'm

.
L1ZA CIIAPEN , CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
:2:26
--.
.
1:y
---<x .m-
not go ing to have secret meetings and continue the
ca se and do a1l this other stu ff unless I have a
b asis to do that .
lf 1 do , be happy to do it , but I don rt .
M R . PE E K :
Y ou r H o n o r , m a y 1 b e he a r d o n
T HE CO U RT :
MR . PFEK :
Y e ah , ye a h .
-- I think what 's happen ing is
that you 're be inq given half o f the sto ry .
10
Th e source code is a code that was b eing
11
asked b y the governm ent unde r contrach of eTreppid to
12
develop that woulcl do certain thinqs, patte rn
13
recognitionz anomay detection, those kinds of -- it
14
would perform those funct ion s in an executable
15
format .
02:27
02:27
16
The Department o f Defense provided to
17
e T re p p id c e r t a in c la s s if ied m a t e r ia l - - an d I
18
m ent ioned th is to you the other da y -- in the form of
19
video , and yo u m ight can im agine w hat th at is -- to
20
try to se e if the source -- if the code could
21
actually operate and m ake p attern recogn ition and
22
anomaly detection and facial recognition and object
23
detection .
24
o2:2G
this b ecause --
.w.
1
---
n.....
But the source code itself is not
(775) 323-5492
:2:27
)
1
It is not a classified piece of --
WelL, it's not classified tn any way.
It's just the knfarmation qjven to eTreppid that was
classified on wh ich the source code would ope rate .
c lassified .
Now , some of those videos, there 's a
concern about w he re they a re .
the Department of Defen se r has b een investigating
eTrepp id to find out what ha s happ ened to them , but
you 're b eing sort of given this im pression that there
So the OSI, as part o f
10
is something o ut here that in the national se curity
11
intere st tha t we shouldn 't be ta lking ab out : and
12
that 's not t he case .
13
:2:27
02:28
If jt were the case, you would have heard
14
from the fed eral government r you wou ld have heard
15
from the United States District Court, you wou ld have
16
even seen a m otion to stay this proceeding .
17
a d d re s s t h a t i n a n ab st en t i o n i s su e a s t o w h e th e r
18
they w ere or were not .
We wou ld
19
So I on ly raised the po int ab out Sloan s
20
test im ony , M r . Ven able 's testimony , because the 1aw
21
enforcement had asked not to disclose that there w as
22
the subject of an onqoing criminal investigation .
23
That 's the only reason I b rought it up .
24
THE COURT: A1l right
LIZA CHAPENP CCR: RMR
n2!2a
We ll , th is record
(775) 323-5492
02:28
))
1
l
is sealed .
He re is m y position .
I feel li ke I 'm --
you know , 1 'm no t reatly out in the ligh t in terms of
what -- you know , what exactly it is you lre saying .
1 fee l like I 'm in the da rk on that , and until 1 have
some solid statuto ry authorty o r som ething from the
government or contact from the federa l government,
then I'm just going to go ahead and proceed because I
don 't have a basis not to proceed .

MR . FLYNN :
I understand f you r Honory and
11
with a11 due respect to Mr . Pee k, if 1 only qave you
12
half the story , wh sch adm ittedly I 've ev en given you
13
less , because there isy a s I said , a dicho tom y
14
betw een the d ata com pression technology that these
15
folks made a dea l c)n and a11 this government stuff .
16
That fs the bottom line to the proceeding
17
18
(
'
t
-..
---
10
----
02:29
02:29
b ef o re y o u .
Now , in a11 th is governm en t m ate riak, the
19
way , a s T understand it , on th is level , the
20
government works , the ind iv idu als involv ed , w ho have
21
been at eTreppid Techno logies , would never contact
22
any U .S . A ttorney and go into any cou rt to d isclose
23
anyth ing or see k any order .
24
02:29
THE COURT :
Well , they ,re out of luck,
(7V5) 323-5492
02:29

$
hhen , 1 guess , if they -- 1 mean, if there 's som e
statutory authority that we're not supposed Lo
proceed with this thing , then f need to see it .
If they don 't want m e to p ro ceed w ith
this , Lhen they need to tel me that .
secreh that they can 't tell me that, then we fre just
go i ng t o g o a h e ad .
MR . PEKK :
Honor .
THE COURT :
11
M R . PEEK :
We ll --
:2:30
-- as we go through the
one w itne ss into it , it is a kmost noon -THE CO UPT :
16
MR . PEEK :
Right .
02:39
-- and I wou ld as k that we
17
p ro c ee d e xp e d i t iou sl y b e c au se y o u to l d u s w e o n l y h a d
18
today .
19
m erits .
Th is is not a m in i-trial or tria l on the
20
THE COURT :
21
I m ean , here is m y prob lem and I hope you
24
T understand .
can understand and apprec iate that .
23
We w ant you to p roceed , your
We have just started our case, we are only
15
22
02:30
process .
13
14
lf it 's so
We 'll tell you what the source cod e is --
10
12
/
It 's like a lawyer stands up and says , ''I
object
''
(775) 323-5492
02:3:
)
('
An d s o , ''What 's yo u r 13a si.s ? ''
''We 11, 1'm not going to tell you what the
'
basis is, but E oklject to ths evidence.''
M R . FLYNN :
That is the pa radox .
THE COURT :
Can you --
MR . FL YNN :
Tha t is the pa radox the Court
02:31
is confro nted w ith , and 1 w jll say th is is where we
end up -- here 's where we end up .
The re is no source code except in
10
Mr . Montgomery 's head .
11
by contract .
12
had to be that wa y .
13
14
15
It has a lw ay s been that way
You will hear his test im ony .
02:31
lt always
THE COURT:
I've read that.
I've read
MR . FLYNN :
The re is no source code that
that .
16
could be made to de live r to an yone , practically,
17
p ra gm a ti c a ll y , le ga l ly o r o t h e r w is e .
18
. -
02:31
Th e bottom line for the Cou rt is whether
19
the source cod e that 's in M r . Montgom ery ls head ,
20
which is what we 're fight ing about , b ecause of the
21
conv ersat ions that M r . Montgom e ry and M r . Trepp had
22
financia lly in the fa ll o f 2005 , involving hund red s
23
of millio ns of do llars, is the reason for -- that 's
24
the reason we're in

.
court today .
(775) 323-5492
02:31
.
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h.
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T hat code r if you want to ca ll iL, that 's
in Mr. Montqomery 's head, has nothing to do with the
deal that: was m ade between these people for data
compre ssio n technoiogy, which is al1 over the
co n t r ac t s .
02:32
THF COURT :
1 read that , too .
MR . FLYNN :
So where we 're go ing to end up
when M r . M ontqome ry teshifies, and 1 911 giv e the
judge -- your Honor a heads up -- is there are
10
thousands of lines of code involving this classified
11
technology , notw th standing what M r . Peek says, that
12
extrem ely few indiv iduals in the gov ernm ent even know
13
abou t .
92:32
14
Mr . Montgomery and Mr . Trepp have signed
15
docum ents that they would neve r disclose it to
16
anyone .
17
18
19
T h a t 's w he re w e 're q o in g t o e nd up , y ou r
Bono r .
The on ly way the Cou rt can understand the
20
ram ification s o f this technology is for
21
M r . Montgome ry to tell you r mu ch of which M r . Trepp
22
doesn 't ev en know , how it was used , what the results
23
of that were over the last sev eral years .
24
02:32
THE'
, COURT: And you're saying he cannot
(775) 323-5492
02:32

Mxp>
6)
f
te ll m e that ?
MR
FLYNN :
that .
W hy
M R . nLYNN :
And 1 bel ieve the only th ing
that I can com e up w ith is tha t he and Mr . Trepp
could go into chamb ers , and Mr . T repp could v erify
what M r . Montqom ery will tell you .
way o f -M R . Peek :
THE COUHT :
13
M R . P E EH :
14
T HE CO UHT :
16
I have no othe r
Your Honor , we 're going to do
02:33
You have a -W e 're go i ng t o - Well , we 're goin g to d o it
where 1 say -M R . PEEK :
:2:33
1 unde rstand that , you r Honor :
17
b ut I would like to have it done in op en court , as
18
opposed to just send two individuals into your
19
chambe rs to d iscu ss --
20
02:33
this in op en court .
12
15
134
Abso Lutely cannot tell you
T H E C O UP T :
11
- -<rN'
10
1'
-.-
THE COURT :
Well , we 're not going to even
21
do that if I don tt have some statutory basis for h is
22
saying he can 't or won 't d isclose it .
23
G ive me that , and 1 '11 say fine .
24
MR. PEEK: Andr your Honor, what I find
(775) 323-5492
o2:3a

'
(
'
*
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.
-.
-(
interesting to this filib us ter is that we know that
there were 200 gigabytes de leted o ff o f the
SRCSEPVER , o ff the IGASERVER , and out o f the RA TD
box , and he 's saying , #'Wel1, thaL doesn 't'' -- ''That 's
meaningless .
:2:34
it wa s thah he did de lete .
inference , if you will , he 's trying to put ouL
there -- imp lication , if yo u will -- that there was
We have this sort of
10
som eth ing put on a p rogram that autom atica lly
11
deleted , and we 'll hear from that later , but --
THE OOURT :
I 'm getting that part .
:2:34
1 'm
13
just -- 1 just have a concern about this scurity
14
issue , th at we dre going to get to a point w here
15
there 's going to be evidence or inform at ion that 's
16
critica l to e ither side , and one side o r the other is
17
go in g t o s a y , ''I Im so r ry , I c a n t t e l l yo u ab out
18
that .''
19
MR . PEEK :
20
THE COURT :
21
MR . PEEK :
22
Tlaat fs not a source code .''
But you never hear him say or expla in wh at
12
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Well --
A l1 I 'm sayin g is when that --- then they fail on their
burden .
23
THE COURT :
A l1 I 'm saying --
24
We lly who ha s the burden ?
(775) 323-5492
02:34
<
136
... .
po int , and I 'm trying to give both sides a heads up ,
what I 'm saying to you, Mr . Flynn, is if we get to
thah po int a nd you or you r clie nt tell m e that you
cannot disclo se hhat , without some citat ion to some
authority fo r Lhat purpose , 1 'm going to orde r it to
b e disc lo sed .
9
10
order -- I m go ing to issue a show cause order with

regard to contempt .
o2:3s
A nd 1 111 do the same on the other side .
12
I don 't want to do that .
1 want to do the
13
rig ht thing .
14
thing is and give m e c ita tion to some authority .
But you need to te ll me what the right
15
That 's a1l I 'm saying .
16
MR . FLYNN :
02:35
1 understand, your Honor, and
17
T 'm co n v in ce d a t t h i s p o i nt th a t t h e C o u r t w a n t s to
18
do the right thing and --
19
THE COURT :
20
Huge sa lary that 1 --
21
MR . FLYNN :
That 's what I get paid for .

02:35
And I don 't know whether they
intend to call M r . Montgome ry .
23
24
02:34
If it 's not disc osed , I 1m going to
11
22
(
R
V
A 1l i 'm saying is that if we get to th at
('
I thin k a 1ot will b ecome clear when we
call him,
and you 'll see wh en we reach a certain end
(775) 323-5492
%-e.
)
l
forw ard with it and then we 'll see where we go w ith
it .
I do have a Judges ' meeting at noon so 1
need to recess just a couple minutes early and 1'11
be back at 1:30f so just for planning purposes .
BY M R . FLYNN :
Q.
For two years , acco rd ing to your
11
test im ony, you worked on about one percent of
12
eTrepp id source code ?
13
A.
Correct..
14
Q.
And th en a fter that , you were bas ically
do in g adm inist rative, orqanizing dut ies ?
16
A.
Purchasing , p rep aring stu ff the re , right .
17
Q.
So in a11 the years --
18
A.
Co rrect .
20
Q.
You worked on one p ercent of the source
A.
I can 't te ll you what p ercentage of a11
22
23
24
02:36
o2:a6
You dve been there six years , is it?
19
21
n2:3s
Go ahead , Mr . Flynn .
10
15
jgg
THE COURT: A11 right. Well, let's go
---(x
r
point , it will become obv ious .
-----.
code ?
the stuff .
I just told you the two projects I've

= '
(775) 323-5492
02:36
()
1
w o rk ed o n .
Q.
And whatever the Denn ks Mo ntgom ery sou rce
code is on these government con tracts , you don 't know
a ny t h i ng ab o u t t '
?
MR . PE EK :
Counse l, could you p lease .
T h a n k yo u .
THE W ITN PSS :
1 don 't know about the code ;
1 just know about the hardware that was used for the
projects.
10
M R . FLYNN :
Than k you , sir .
11
THE COURT :
Are you finished?
12
MR . FLYNN :
Yes, s ir .
13
THE COUBT : Al1 right.
14
02:37
Th an k you .
Do you have any
redirect?
15
16
02:36
MR . JAKO PIN :
Yes, a little b it , your
02:37
Honor .
17
18
19
20
REDIRECT EXA M INATION

BY MR . JAKOPIN :
Q.
W e 've heard a 1o t about the source code ,
21
and so that we can m ake -- get som e c larity to that ,
22
Windows is an application -- o r W ord is an
23
application , it 's a typing app lication , correct?
24
A. correct.
(775) 323-5492
02:37
(x
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w.- ,
>. -
Q.
relates to that ?
A.
How w ou ld you exp lain the source code that
Microso ft hired probably severa l hundred r
m ayb e thousands to develop the ir O ffice ap plications,
and they w rite al 1 the actual text files that are
eventually com piled to make th is one executable
called Wo rd .EXE, and th at runs and it 's got who know s
how m any lines of code in it .
thousand, maybe a million just for Word because it ls
11
a ve ry , v ery -- what we call fat app lication , ve r y
12
featu re-rich .
13
Q.
referred to as the source code , then , fo r this Word
15
applicat ion ?
:2:38
16
A.
Co rrect .
17
Q.
So you 'll have source code that is fo r an
18
app licatio n that w ill have a whole 1o t of lines o f
19
code that a11 together form the source code for that
20
application ?
23
24
A.
oz:aa
C orrect , that are comp iled and that
creates th e applicat ion .
Q.
02:37
A nd are a l1 those lines o f code together
14
22
oz:ap
I heard th at it 's seve ral hundred
10
21
. 1ar)
O ka y .
For each o f the d if ferent
applications that exist at eTreppid , there 's then
(775) 323-5492

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1
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sou rce code tha t corresponds to that , correc t?
A.
T h a t 's r iq h t .
Q.
Now , are there d ifferent app licahions that
4
5
6
share source codes among them?

A.
Seve ra L of those app licat ion s used video
02:38
comp ression Codecs .
For exampley they hard-coded the v ideo
comp re ssion Codec into the player so thah w e cou ld
ship this p laye r to some o f our c lients tha t wou ld
10
just be a stand-atone and it only played our type of
11
media file , our type of video .
12
So , in that case, that Codec, that video
13
comp re ssor and the p laye r had the sam e code in each
14
of those two deals .
oz:aa
f'
15
Q.
So you can com bine together d iffe rent
16
lines o f source code , or the same lines o f source
17
co d e fo r d if f e r e nt ap p l i ca t io n s ?
18
A.
T hat ts right .
19
Q.
Now , we 've also hea rd about clas sified
20
information .
21
02:39
Do you have an unde rstanding o f what 's
22
d ifferent betw een classified in formation an d source
23
code --
p
'
24
A.
Ye s .
02:39
(775) 323-5492
)
l
(
2
3
-- as Lt was u sed at eT reppid ?

And what was that?
A.
A s ER facility secur ty officer, 1 'm
required to take courses from the governm ent that
trains me on what 's classified , how the classified
m ateria l is handled , who can handle the class ified
mate rial , how ho destroy 5t, a 11 the thing s that are
invo lved with classified material , how it 's defined ,
eve rything , and I 've taken the se cou rses and gotten
11
12
cert ificates for th em .
Q.
No.
14
Q.
O kay .
17
o2:ag
sou rce codes be ing classified?

A.
16
Are you aw are of the different
app lication s that are being wo rked on at eTreppid?

A.
I know a lot o f the diffe rent ones .
p r o b ab l y d o n 't kno w a 1 l o f t h em .
Q.
W hat are th e one s that you 're aware o f?
19
A.
I mentioned the one be fore y the Ad aptive
21
22
23
24
92:39
18
20
n2:3a
A re you aware of any o f the eTrepp id
13
15
--:7
10
Q.
.-
Program which we lve had pretty m uch from the start .

The data comp ressor y th e v ideo Codec
p rogram s, the audio Codec p rogram s .
Codec is a wo rd for a comp ressor ,
decompressor
L'
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.ZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
02:40
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2
O ur stream ing programs , ou r v oice-ove r IP
'
programs .
3
4
app l icat i ()n s .
Q.
p r og r am s ?
A.
I do rl1t. kn ow w h ic h p rog ram s do t ha t .
Q.
A l1 r.
i.gh t .
A.
1 c o u 1dn 't g iv e yo u a n ame o f a p ro g ram
10
11
We 've go t h un d re d s o f d if fe re n t
t ha t d id 1)h a t .
Q.
A re yo u -- do yol hav e an unde r st a nding o f
where the sou rce code for a l 1 of the di f fe rent so urce
13
code programs was stored?
15
MR. FLYNN :
Strike -- objection, your
Honor , to th e wo rd ''a ll''; lacks foundation .
16
THE COURT :
17
more -- better than just ''all ''
18
BY M R . JA i(O P IN :
19
Q.
20
Let m e a sk it a different way .

Do you have an understand ing of where the
source code that diffe rent prog ramm ers w rote got
22
stored ?
24
A.
02:40
Define them a little bit
21
23
:2:4:
o2:4o
12
14
A ce y o u a w a r e o f pa tt e rn r e c og n i t io n
A 11 -- they stored a 11 of the ir stuff on
the SRCSERVER
They had local cop ie s on the ir work
LTZA CHAPEN: CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
02:41
stat ions and they had -- when they had something that
was a worl:ing order on a version-by-version basis, it
m ig h t b e ro t e v 6)ry d a y , b u t e v e ry c ou p 1e o f d a ys o r
every weelo
SRC SE RVER .
Q.
they would p ut tha t good bu ild up on

92:41
And so a11 of the sou rce cod e that each of
the d ifferent programm ers worked o n ultimately got
sto red on th e SRCSERVER?
A.
10
Right .
A nd each one of the p rogramm ers could g ive
11
better details of which prog ram s they worked on and
12
which fo lders Lhey p ut them on SRCSERVER .
13
14
15
16
17
one p erson w as doing .
Q.
A re you aware o f eTrepp id hav ing backup
A.
I 'v e b ee n to ld ov e r t he y e a r s t h a t Den n i s
19
maybe there w as CDs in the b eginning -- but gave them
20
to Wa rren to p ut in a safe somewhere outsid e the
21
build ing .
24
02:42
C Ds of sou rce code?
had , on a regular basis, m ad e DVDS and hard drive s --
23
02:41
1 w asn 't awa re o f w hat every particular
18
22
14(
3
a.
M R . FLYNN :
foundation .
MR
M ove to strike ; lacks
''I was aware .''

.
JA KO PI N :
From what?
Your Honor --
(775) 323-5492
02:42
rj
!
THE COURT:
1 'm no t sure w ha t the question was .
that he was awa re .

I t h i n k y o u n ee d t o d et e rm in e e x a c t ly h ow
he was aw are ancl then i '11 decide whether to strike
it or not .
BY MR . JAIIOPIN :
Q.
11
CDs?
02:42
A.
Denn s told me that he was ma king them .

THE COURT :
13
MR . JA KO PIN :
15
16
17
02:42
How were you awa re that there we re those
12
14
Motion is denied .
Th ank you .
B Y M R . JA X O PIN :
Q.
Did you eve r have an opp ortunity to loo k
02:42
at tho se C Ds?
A.
18
thin k you asked h im did he know , and his answ er w as
10
Hold on just a minute.
t
'
U p u nt il re c e n t l y s n o , a nd t he n - -
Do you want m e to continue?
19
Q.
Ye s .
20
A.
I fo rget what -- T believe Lhe 10th or the
21
11th of J anua ry, W arren b rought me everyth ing he said
22
he had in the safe and had m e look at it to see what
23
it contained , and it was four hard drives and a stack
24
of Dvos and cos m fxed .
(775) 323-5492
02:4a

(,'..
Q.
Did you check tho se ?
A.
I went ove r them .
14 5
Th ree o f the hard d rives we re supposed to
be a RA ID group , created with a Window s Dynamic
Driver RA rD ; one of the drives was b lan k ; and the
othe r two were part of a Dynam ic RA IB group but it
was missing the third drive .
8
9
A dapt ive Prog ram from 2001.
10
Another CD had files on it that were
11
passwo rd p ro te ctecl and the password wasn 't what
12
Dennis had g iv en Warren .
13
None of it had cu rrenh stu ff .
n2:13
T he m o st
14
recent fi Les on the -- a ll of the co llective C Ds and
15
the hard drive s, 1 couldn 't even read , but the CDs
16
was 2001, 1 b elieve ; m aybe January 2002 .
17
Q.
Yo u had mentioned an Ad ap tkve Prog ram ?
18
A.
ET Adaptive r the data com pre ssor p rog ram .
19
Q.
Uh -huh .
20
A.
It h ad --
02:44
Wa s there -02:44
Wh at 's tha t?
22
Q.
Go ahead .
23
A.
lt had the code for that but not the
24
:2:13
The -- one of the DVDS h ad code fo r the
21
.
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.-
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compzete code
(775) 323-5492
..e
It had imb edded anobhe r program inside
th at was comp iked with in tt so it did n 't have the
com plete code .
th ks litt.
'e embedded p rogram ins tde o f it w as .
Q.
Was there any source code on the CDs and
o th e r m e d ia th a t y o u w e re g iv en , oth er than th is
Adap tive Prog ram ?
A.
11
Q.
You mentioned binaries .
Cou ld you expla in
ho the Court what a binary is?

A.
Binary is what source code
just call a11 executables binaries
16
-- we general ly
02:45
They can be an executab le o r a DLL file .
17
They lre the fina l p rodu ct after com pilinq .
18
c reate you r b inary file .
19
20
Q.
Y ou
Ts the binary fjle created from the source
code ?
02:45
21
A.
C o rr e ct .
22
Q.
How is that done?
23
A.
Through a compiler such a s -- there 's
24
c2:44
code on an y of those d rives was for the Adap tives .
14
15
But other than that , that wa s the onky
12
13
02:44
The re we re only the b inarke s , the se
executab le's for v kdeo comp re ssion and a m ed ia play e r
10
W e don t know what th e code was for
146
('
(w )
command line one s .
The one we use in the bu ilding is
(775) 323-5492
f
.
the Visua q Studo Product that M crosoft ma kes .
Q.
And how does it operate?
A.
lt goes and run s th rough and compile s each
C ++ file , creates in termed iate libraries .
F rom th o se , it comp tle s them toqether and
creates the final executable or DLL and converts it
a11 to what we ca Ll the binary .
8
9
10
It ps basically just ones and zeroes

Q.
O kay .
w ill be many lines of code , co r re c t ?

A.
C o r re c 1).
12
Q.
And there w ill be p()tentia l1y many
l3
d i f fe ren t so u r ce c od e fi le s t ha t a re d i re c t e d t o a
14
single app zication ?

A.
C o r ze c t .
16
Q.
Doe s the compile r act upon a11 o f those
02:46
17
source code fi zes , each o f w hich have line s in it, in
18
a sequence to then create a sing le executab le file?
21
o2:4s
15
20
oz:ls
So with in a sou rce code file , t he re
l1
19
A.
Exact ly .
It goe s through each o f the
files in the project .
02:46
You create a project in our developer
22
environm enL .
It goe s through each o f those y c r e at e s
23
an inte rmediate 1ib file , library file , and then
24
combines al1 those together into your final
'
147
'
j-e)
(775) 323-5492
.
a,
...
1
f'
148
executable , and it does it in a sequenttal fash ion .
2
3
Q.
So that you end up with a single program
thah can be executed by the com puter ?
A.
Correct .
N ow , you m ight need interm ed iate steps .
L ike, for examp le , our video compressor , it can 't do
anything by it sell .
something else wo uld need to , like a m edia player
wou ld need thak file to be able to p lay bac k our
10
T ha t 's - -
v ideo .
11
12
It 's a DLL lib rary .
02:46
02:46
Q.
You referred to a DLL library .
A-
Dynam ic Lin k L ibrary .
W h a t 's
that?
'
13
14
15
d ifferent p art s o f the ope rat ing syst em and software
16
that 's ru n on the ope rak ing system , so that to play
17
back, for exam p le r M P3 audio , you wou ld have a DLL
18
that handles M P 3 a ud io files , and we created DLL
19
files for vid eo and for aud io .
20
21
22
('
That 's w hat Windows use s to modulize
Q.
You 'll have a DLL that wil l lkn k to get
different kind s o f files to th e prog ram ?

A.
For examp le , you try to p lay bac k eT reppid
23
A udio, there wou ld b e a -- that , fo r examp le, isn 't
24
exactly the DLL , but it Is similar and it w ould allow

=
LIZA CHAPEN: CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
:2:44
:2:47

.
fx*-zmj
..
(
t'N
-- -
14j)
..
yo u t o p 1(,y b a (7k t.he au d io .
Q-
O kay .
A.
We wou ldn 'h create an e xecutable for ET
A udio ; we did hav e our own players .
Q.
Gett ing back to source code r could you
describ e #lhe mannec n which various programmers
would storce source code onto the SRC SERV ER?
8
9
A.
ET Latest is where they we re supp osed to
We a lso had a fo lder in there called ET
11
Programmers , underneath which had a subfolder for
12
each p rog.rammer that we assigned .
13
they each -- that fo lder, fo r exam ple , for Venkata ,
15
only V en kata can get into that fo lder .
16
other u sers on the netwo rk could .
17
None of the
02:48
V e n ka t a h a d w h a t w e c a l l m od i fie d
18
p erm issions .
He cou ld add files , change file s, but
19
h e can never dele te .
20
de lete .
Only the adm in istrator could
02:48
And th ere was a sub folder for each of the
22
p rogramm ers w ith tho se pe rm issions a ssigned , and they
23
w ould put the ir w or k in p rogre ss und er those and do
24
the ir own da ily or w ee kly b ackup s under there .
i'
S..
02:48
Denn is and I assigned perm issions that
14
21
02:47
put their latest b uilds .
10
(775) 323-5492
t-....
'
;
1
Q.
A.
O kay .
A 1l of the proqramm ers excep t for Michael,
Jessie and Jim , w hch is not a programme r; al1 the
re st w e re d e le t e d .
02:48
Jessie , Michae l and Jim 's folde rs w ere

still the re .
Q.
What was in M ichael 's folder ?
A.
The game eng ine code .
10
Q.
What wa s; in Jim 's folder?
11
A.
A 11 the 3-D models he m ade for the game
12
And Jessie 's had all the web site stu ff he
developed ; no C+4 code, just Java and HTML stuff.
15
16
Q.
Jav a and HTML are differen t p rogramming
02:49
languages r corre ct ?
17
A.
T h e y dre w eb s it e p ro g ram m i n g la n g u a ge s .
18
Q.
And that 's different from the C++
19
:2:49
engin e .
13
14
1qj()
And were a11 o f tho se files deleted
programm ing lang uage?
20
;7r
..
from the SRC SERV ER?
A.
They don 't ma ke executab les or p rogram s
21
that are run; they just generate code to display web
22
pages .
23
MR . JAKO PIN :
I don 't have anyth ing else .
24
Did your Honor have any questions of the
LIZA CHA PEN , CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
02:49

x
(... )
(
151
witness as it relates to just having your
understand ing be clear as it re late s to sou rce code
or files?
T H E C O tJRT :
Y e ah , 1 do hav e a p retty
bas ic -- pretty b asic que st on that re ally hasn 't
been, at lea st , laid out well enough for me to rea lky
understand it .
8
9
I 'm not exactly sure -- wh en you sa
sou rce cod e, I 'm not sure what you m ean by that
: so
if you could explain it to m e in laym an 's te rms so
11
that --
12
THE W ITNESS :
13
THE COURT :
oz:so
Okay .
Is it li ke a key tha t a l low s
y ou acce ss to n formation --
15
TH E WITNESS :
16
THE COURT :
17
:2 :43
y a
10
14
No
02:s0
-- or is it the in formati
on
itself?
18
('
-j
THE W ITNESS :
It 's som eth ing you co uld
19
read l You could open one -- say , fo r examp le , for
20
the v ideo C odec , it would be arranged -- the project
21
wou ld b e a rranged , so this w ould m ake a DLL file to
22
1et you play th is video .
23
header files and then there wou ld be a bun ch o f ''C ''
24
files.
Th ere wou ld be a bunch of
LIA CHA PEN , CCRZ RMR
(775) 323-5492
02:50
t....c
1
text that you coulcl read . There would be like
function -- p lay function , for examp le , and it would
say wha t the variab les for tha t funct ion is .
Then , there would b e a cor responding C++
file that would actua lly have the bu1 k o f that
function .
wou ld have some stuff ins ide , fo r example , a ''fo r ''
loop , it wou ld be -- say , ''For th is number o f th ings ,
10
th is num ber o f ite rations , do th is calculat ion and go
11
around .''
o2;so
A nd you can actually -- an ybody could read
13
this stuff
14
it ls in plain Engzish language .
15
nz:so
Tt woulcl say ''p lay funct ion y '' and then it
12
gk!(j;4
!
The header files just have definitions and
('
'
am.pfj
They m ight not know wh at it 's doing , but
TH E COURT :
Bu h w hat I1m a sking , Vs the
16
source code the dev ice that you use to get access to
17
what you just described ?
18
THE W ITNESS :
19
T HE COURT :
20
THE W ITNESS :
c2cs1
Uh-huh .
It is?
You could - - no .
The sou rce
21
code -- we co llective ly call a 11 of this language
22
that 1 'm desc ribing the source code .
23
THE COURT :
It 's the content ?
24
THE WITNESS: You can look at it with a
LIEZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
02:51
(..,;
1
T HE (>
-()tlRT : A 11 ri.ght .
T HE W ITN ESS :
TH E COUFT :
THE W ITNESS :
THE COUFT :
A l1 riqht .
02:51
-- and com pile them .
A11 riqh t .
Now , out o f
cu rio sity , do you bave a security ctea rance?
TH E W ITN ESS :
Yes, 1 have top secre t .
10
THE CO UPT :
11
Do you know what c learance M r . Montqomery
12
13
Top secret .
02:51
has?
THE W I1'HESG :
He ha s top sec ret w ith a
14
specia l compa rtm ent r SC I special compa rtm ent .
15
forget what it stands for .
16
We use a sp ec ia l ed itor to
look at them --
153
Word docurAent or Notepad .
/
.
('.
-
THE CO UHT :
That rs the h ighest level .
W ith regard to th e
17
c onversation that you indicated that you had on
18
January loth -- actually , 1 first th ought it Was on
19
J anuary 11th , but it appears that it w as clarified to
20
have b een on January 10th -- w ith M r . Montgomery
21
where he said to you that Mr . T repp w as going to have
22
to pay big money o r big bucks for ''it .''
23
What wa s the ''it'e?
24
it this waky: Dd Mr
02:51
D kd M r .
- -
ket m e ask
M ontgome ry in that conve rsation
L'
.
EZA CHAPEN , CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
n2:s2
...v x.)
.
i
.
(.
--
154
describ e 'lhe ''it'' or was his stateme nt simp ly he ha s
t o pa y b i.fJ b u c k s fo r - -
T H E W IT N ES S :
No , he de s c r ibe d wha t ''it ''
was .
T H E CO (JRT :
THE WITNESS :
W ha t w a s b'it ''?
02:52
This w as th e top -- ou r mo st
recent contrac t, potential contract .
detect ion and sate zlite images, other imaqes for the
governmen t.
10
THE CO URT :
A 11 right .
It 's anoma ly
W e ll , what I 'm
11
ta lking about -- w e 're ta lking ab out source code fo r
12
tha t ?
13
14
15
THE W ITNRSS :
use to d etect it .
THE COIJRT :
A 1l right .
A nd a re those --
is that a tangib le thing or is that info rmation
17
t ha t 's c o nt a in ed i n h i s h ea d ?
18
O r do you know .
19
THE W ITNESS :
20
how he did it .
21
it w ith him .
23
24
02:52
lt 's for the methods they
16
22
Well, 1 don dt know exactly
1 know various people that wo rked on
THE'
, COURT :
:2:52
A 11 right .
W ell y I m ay have
som e furthe r quest ions, but I don 't --
Just give me a second; T thought I had one
(775) 323-5492
o2:5a
(<w.)
1
t
No ,
l cltan 't h av e an yt h in g fu r t h e r r ig h t
n ow .
M r . F1 ;nIA?
MR . FLYN N :
1yj5
more .
2
3
1w'
b
z-
..- - ---
I-lope fu l ly i t w i 1 1 be
02:s3
r e 1a t iv e 1 5( s h o r1:, k'o u r Ho n o r .
'
.7
R E:C R OS S EXAM IN AT 1O N
BY MR . FL'fNN :
10
Q.
M r . Ve nab le s , the st a c k o f C D s w h i ch you
11
sa id w a s w it h fou )7 h a rd d r ive s : a n d t ha t w a s , qu o te ,
12
''Eve ryth ilRg i n the sa fe ''?
13
A.
C orrect .
14
Q.
ls that r in fact , accurate , that the fou r
15
hard drive s in the stack o f C Ds w as everyth ing in the
16
safe?
17
A.
I d o n 't kn ow .
they we ren 't in a sa fe on your p rem ises ; they were
19
brough t from a post office box or a bank vault
20
som ewhe re .
22
Q.
1 have no idea .
02:54
Whe re d id you get the term inology,
''Every th iqg in the sa fe''?
23
A.
From Warren .
From M r . Trepp .
24
Q.
W as it the downstai rs safe or the upstairs
/'
02:54
l d i dn 't t a ke t h em f rom - -
18
21
:2:53
(775) 323-5492

-..
(
1
2
3
A.
bank vau kt or somep kace out skde the bu kkdin
Q.
A.
building .
Q.
12
13
I have no idea what he has outside th e

I know what w e have in our building .
Have you ever seen the contents o f an y
sa fe be lon ging to Mr . Trepp ?

A.
The one that we have in o ur secret room :
Q.
The secret room being what we de sc ribed on
Exh ibit 1 as the p r ivacy room that 's

A.
R ight .
15
Q.
-- right there, r ight ?
18
n2:s4
he opened for me and Jay Dixon .
16
- -
02;s5
And what did you see?

A.
S p a r e c op ie s o f ke y s a n d v a r i ou s m in i DV
tapes that w e 'd rece ived from the m ilita
19
n2:s4
14
17
g.
How ma ny safes , to your know ledge , d id
11
156
No safe in our build ing ; it was at the
M r . T repp have ?
10
(v)
.
m
safe?
ry .
That wa s it .
20
Q.
How many drawers did you look in?
21
A.
The two -- there 's two saf e containers in
22
that room .
Each has two d rawers .
23
only -- as far as I know : the only comb inat ion to
24
one. Re opened it, showed b 0th m yself and Jay Dixon
oz:ss
Wa rren had the
(775) 323-5492

.-.. .
'
-
Q.
in b0th sa fe s?
A.
No .
Q.
''He '' b eing ?
A.
Wa r ren .
Q.
And what was in that safe again, just
A.
That was just mini DV tapes, no hard
10
1 just described the one he opened .

o2:ss
so --
drives, and th e spare keys to the bu ilding .
o2:5s
11
Q.
And what was in the oth er safe?
12
A.
The othe r safe had -- 1 forget the number ;
13
we have a 1og fkle of it -- of hard drives that Patty
14
had placecl in the re that som e o f were classified ,
15
som e are not , and also a bunch o f m kn i DV tapes ;
16
prob ably 20 .
17
Q.
of these safe s pr tor to th is t im e whe re you saw them
19
in --
20
A.
No .
21
Q.
And , again , it was in January o f 2006 th at
23
24
czts6
Had you ever seen the contents of either
18
22
So have you describ ed , in total , what was
1sy
.-
A nd t h e o the r sa fe , Pa t ty o p en e d f o r u s .
2
3
oa:s6
you saw these ?

A.
In the last two weeks when Jay Dixon from
DSS had me check L)0th of them.

'
- -
.. -.- ..-. -..... - .- - .- - - -- -- -- .-- - .-
- -. ..
.- - -
- ..
. ..- - - - - - - .. .- -
- -- - - . - - . -
- .-..- - - - -- .
- - -. - .
(775) 323-5492
. --
-.-. - .-
--
(
1--)
(
Q.
Did you see an inventory ?
A.
Yes .
Q.
ln which safe did you see the inventory?
A.
In the sa fe th at Patty op ened .
Q.
Where is the inventory now ?
A.
There 's a copy in th e safe and 1 have a
1gg
Patty had made an inventory .
Q.
Do you have it w ith you?
A.
No .
10
Q.
What was on the inventory ?
11
A.
A l1 th e m ini DV tape s and hard d rive s that
12
Patty sa icl w ere in the hard drive at on e time or
13
another.
15
02:56
The re 's some o f them listed as m issing
right now .
czts;
16
Q.
Wa s the re an inventory of the other safe?
17
A.
No .
18
Q.
Who created the inventory, if you know?
19
A.
Patty to ld me she d id .
20
Q.
When d id she c reate the inventory?
21
A.
I have no idea .
22
Q.
A 11 right .
23
A.
If -- sh e had updated it recently; that fs
24
92:s6
copy in m v of fice .
14
(vj
'
a1l I know.
(775) 323-5492
02::7
:.,..j
1
Q.
1!;9
Tha t was go ing to be my next --
--
How many d ifferent ed ition s of an
inventory in the -
you aw are of a s you test ify today ?
A.
Q.
A nd how m any editions had it gone th rough
you have ao knowleclge of; is thah correct ?
A.
Wh at 's that again?
10
Q.
How many editions o f -- how m any t im es
11
that inve ntory that you saw had been changed in the
12
past --
13
I don 't know .
14
Q.
-- you have no know ledge o f?
15
A.
No .
16
Q.
Patty Gray may have som e know ledge ; is
18
t ha t c o r re c t ?
A.
I saW the current one and I added stuff
that was in Warren 's sa fe to it , so I 'm -- the copy
20
that 's in th ere has only been edited by m e sin ce I
21
first opened it .
22
Q.
24
o2:s7
o2:s7
19
23
1
'
02:57
17
There 's just one copy in there .

1 h ad to provide that to DSS .
7
8
call it the Patty Gray sa fe are
A nd you could have your o ffice , ov er the
brea k, fax that inventory to you ?
MR . JAKCIPIN : Objection, your Honor.

.
(775) 323-5492
o2:s7
v'j
(
T HE W ITNKSS :
They don 't have access .
MR. JAKOPIN:
The inventory is beyond the
scope o f redirect .
MR . FLYNH :
It 's go t to do w ith the sa fe .
THE COUHT :
1 'm interested in the truth ,
9
10
11
12
Go ahe ad .
BY M R . FLYNN :
Q.
You 're the only one that has got the
combination?
A.
o2ts8
DSS has instructed me to change the
combination and not to give it to anybody .
13
Q.
zncluding Mr . Trepp ?
14
A.
Includ ing M r . Trepp .
15
Q.
Tnclud ing M r . Gray?
16
A.
Patty .
17
Q.
I mean M iss Gray?
18
A.
Correc t .
19
Q.
Correc t?
20
A.
That 's right .
21
Q.
Wa s th e inventory c reated on her computer?
22
A.
I have no idea .
23
24
o2;ba
not necessarily the scope o f redire ct .
'
l 've given som e lat itude , but --
('
160
w)'
02:5a
02:5:
Probab ly .
Q.
So the various ed it ion s of the invento ry
(775) 323-5492
(...'j
1
A.
Co r rC?c t .
Q.
Now , w tln regard to the CDs, the stack ,
what 's your best: estim ate of how m an y we re in the
s t ac k ?
o2:sa
A.
Less than ten .
Q.
And do you know what safe they cam e from ,
personally ?
A.
No.
10
Q.
M r . Trepp handed them to you and sa id y
11
T don 't know whe re they came from .
''Th is is eve rythin g in the safe .
12
Is tha t your testim ong?
A.
That's rkght.
14
Q.
But you don 't know what sa fe ?
15
A.
He said that they w ere in a bank vault or
Q.
And wh ere are those CDs today?
18
A.
In m y office .
19
Q.
So you could b ring those to court also ?
20
A.
Correct .
21
MR . PEEK ;
o2:s9
Your Honor , 1 1m going to
object.
23
24
02::9
a P .O . Box somewhere ; I forg et wh ich .
17
22
02:sa
''
13
16
161
may still be pre sent o n her hard d rive ?
(
-v'
)
We 're n ot going to engage in d iscov ery
right now
we m ade th is request a long t ime ago o f
(775) 323-5492
cou nsel and they didn lt want -- they did n 't w ant to
engage in any exchange of discovery last week when we
ta lked abou h it, and we 're here now in a Preliminary
Injunction and 1 think to be asking to produce
documents over the lunch hou r is un reaso nab le at this
time .
truth , and I unde rstand the search , but , yo u know,
I 'm not inclined to tu rn ove r anyth ing to
10
Mr . Montgomery r igh t now without having the
11
opportun ity to ce rta inly cop y it b efore we do thatr
12
make an inv entory of it , and 1 th in k to a sk to do
13
that in th e n oon hour and t ry to do that an d h ave
14
som e idea of what 's on it between now and the close
15
of bu siness today when we clo se this test imony is
16
unrea sonab le Lo as k.
M R . FL Y N N :
oaloo
o3:no
Tb e q u e s t Lo n w a s o n l y w he t h er
18
he could do it , your Honor .
19
righ t now .
That 's where we are
20
M R . PEEK :
21
THE CO URT :
That 's what I --
22
M R . FLYNN :
I haven 't asked --
23
THE COURT :
That 's what I though t the
24
o2:s9
I unde rstand this is a sea rch for the
17
162
(
r-7
W ell, I know where h e ls go ing .
question was and --
L.EZA CHAPFN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
03:00

.-
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M R . PE RK :
- -
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T he n , I d o n 't kn ow w ha t t h e
relevance of that is.
T H F C O U RT :
Go aheud and ask the question and we 'll
We l l r 1 d o .
see where we go w ith it .
B Y M R . FL X N N :
Q.
8
9
11
o3:0a
Mr . V enables, one o f the CDs --
1 want to remind you we just have a few

m inutes .
10
O ne o f the ODs you sa id had data
A.
Correc t .
13
Q.
Wh en you spoke to M r .
- -
14
Strike that .
15
Did you see any o f them --
16
Str i. ke t ha t .
17
W a s t h e C D it s e l f , t h e ac t u a l d is k , in sid e
03:01
a little container?
19
A.
Plast ic sleeve y yeah .
20
Q.
Did it have any m arking s on tt ?
21
A.
I be lieve it had the d ate , whichever that
22
oa:oo
comp ressic n technology on it?
12
18
('
was ; I can 't rem ember .
23
Q.
W hat wa s the date ?
24
A.
I can t remember what it was
(775) 323-5192
:3::1
'
(*'*')
1
i'
Did you see any marking on the data
compression CD of the type , ''c D No . 1''?

A.
1 can lt recall .
Q.
As you sit here today, have you ever seen
the Contr tbut ion A greement between M r . T repp and
Mr . Montgomery?
A.
No .
Q.
A s you sit here today , are you awa re if
10
data comp ression technology on CD No . 1?
A.
1 d on 't know what their ag reement is .
12
Q.
Do you have any know ledge , h av ing looked
13
at wha tever this C D is th at you looked at that had
14
data c omp ression technology , whether that corre late s
15
in any wa g to the C D that 's described in the
16
Contribut ion A greem ent?
18
19
A.
03:01
03:02
T h e on l y t h in g I k n ow i s w h a t I fo u nd o n
the CD .
Q.
Did Mr . Trepp ever te ll you that , ''Oh T
20
yeah , tha t's the d ata compre ssion technology CD that
21
is the ba sis for forming the company ''?
22
A.
No .
23
Q.
You , yourself, never wo rked on data
24
03:01
that Cont ribution A greement exc luded -- only gives
11
17
f
'
164
Q.
1%Y
He didn 't say that .
comp ressian te chnology at eT repp id , d id you ?
(775) 323-5492
03:02
v...7
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'
A.
No .
Q.
S o b'lh e rk yo u 1.o o ke d a t th a t C i3 - -
Str.
i.ke th a t .
H ow m a ly f i.le s w e re o n th a t C D ?
A.
A c o up 1.e o f h u n d re d .
Q.
An d yo tz don 't re ca l 1 th e d a te ?
-/
A.
No .
03:02
I12 w a s e it h e r 1a te 2 0 0 1 o r e a r ly
2 00 2 ; I c an 't r emem be r .
Q.
And a s 1 unde r st and you r t e s t imon y r s ome
10
o f t he con te n t.s o f the C D , in pa rt , we re pa s swtnrd
11
prot ec t.ed s o you co u 1dn 't acce ss t hem ?
12
A.
13
Q. But ot14er components of that CD, thfa CD on
14
15
Thal:'s r igh t .
A.
The re we re separate C Ds .
w i t h a te x t f i le th a t sa i d , ''W a r re n k n ow s th e
18
passwo rd .''
19
The othe r C D had th is A dapt ive Program --
20
source code for the A daptive Program wh ich wasn 't
21
com plete; it wa s m issing stuff .
23
24
oa:n3
O ne CD only had password p rotected biles
17
22
03::3
data c ompression , were not passwo rd p rotected?
16
16
.
s
Q.
A 11 right .
The one where W arren knows the
password, did you ask h im if h e knew t he pa ssword?
He said h e did , and we tried it and it
LEZA CHAPEN, CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
03:03
(
.y
1
d idn 't work .
Q. What was the password that he gave you?
A.
I don 't remember .
Q.
Was there anyth ing in hhe sa fe that wou ld
indicate what the password was?

A.
10
A ny document?
Wa rren 's safes didn 't have any pap er
Pat tly es safe had copies of our contract
from the r ilitary and the m ater ia l log .
Q.
Now , over the -- a1l the years tha t
11
eTrepp id had been in business since 1998 , do you know
12
how many M r . -- how m any passwords fo r files
13
Mr. Trepp ha(:i .n hi.s head?
14
A.
I have no idea what p assword s he had .
15
Q.
Do you know whether h e m a knta ined a
16
separate inv entory of passwords fo r the m illion s of
17
f i le s t h a t w e r e i n e T r ep p id c om p u t e r s ?
18
19
03::3
documents in it, only m in i DV tape s .
y(;(;
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A.
03:04
03:04
I 'v e seen h im acces s his locked drawer in
h is office that had a pape r with the passwords on it .
20
Q.
Than k y ou .
03:04
21
A.
I 've nev er seen it .
22
Q.
Did you ever look at M r . Trepp 's computer
23
to see w hethe r he ma intained p asswords on his
24
computer?
(775) 323-5492
jw-.x)
A.
No .
Q.
So how -- tn the docum ent that you saw ,
A.
I d tcln 't see the document .
Q.
W hat did you --
A . I just saw him checking for passwords or
Q.
So as you sit here Loday y you have no
know ledge whetlner he , giv ing him the benefit of the
10
doub t, m ade a m ista ke in giving you t he p asswo rd for
11
th is d ata comp re ssion technology C D?
12
A.
03:05
I be lbave that password for tha t one was
13
the name of his mother . 1 think that 's what he told
14
me.
Som eth ing like that .
Someth ing he would know .
15
Q.
How abou t the nam e of h is w kfe , J a le ?
16
A.
I ha ve no idea .
17
H e h ad p le n ty , 1 'm su re .
18
THE CO URT :
It 's time .
19
MR . FLYNN ;
Thank you , your Honor .
20
THE COURT :
We rll --
21
M R . PEEK :
22
03:04
som ething one t im e .
8
9
y(;.
/
how many cliffe Eetn t p asswords we re on it?
(.
'
.
n
oa:os
Your Honor , m ay th is witness be
excused?
23
THE COURT :
I don 't know .
24
Are you inkshed with this witness?
LZZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
03:05
(775) 323-5492
y..q:)
'
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M R . F IuYN N :
N o r 1 'm no t , Y o u r H on c)r .
THE COURT :
A 1l r iqht .
M R . PRRK :
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
(
'
13
16a
Then , not .
You r llonor, are we go ing to
have more t im e than today ?

THE COURT :
No , 1 don 't have planned -- 1
1 'm interested in a coup le of im portant

pieces o f in formation to me .
I 'm interested in what ''it'' is , whether
''it'' is a tangible thing .
o3:os
I 'm inte cested in know ing whether o r not

''it'' was developecl while he was wo rking for eT reppid .
And I 'm knte rested j.n knowin g whether or

not the aqreement that was entered would have
15
excluded that technology o r the b asis for that
16
techno logy .
I haven t heard mu ch e laborat ion on that and , to me ,
19
those a re the kind s of simp le thin gs that I m ay need
20
to dec ide in m aking a decision ab out whether or not
21
you get yeur injunction or you don 't get your
22
injunction .
24
03:06
I 'v e se e n t h e a rg um en t s in t h e b r ie f s , b u t
18
23
03:05
hadn 't p lanned any more t im e than tod ay .
14
17
(.
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MR . PEEK :
And we lre trying to do that ,
your Honoz.
(775) 323-5492
03:06

.
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What Mr. Venables was just talking about
here today p rim ariiy w as -- it was on a SRCSKRVER, it
w a s d e le t e!d o f (' o f t he SRC S F,RV ER
who w ill connect up what went on to that SRCSERVER,
but we spent just three hours with Mr. Venables on
what was zea lly a very discrete a rea o f inqu iry abou t
the fact that it was there and it was deleted .
T HE CO URT :
M R . PEEK :
10
THE COIJRT :
11
M R . PEKK :
12
THE COURT :
t h e re a r e o t he rs
A 11 right .
Mr . Trepp will be te stifying .

Here ls whah f --
03:07
Mr . Frye will be te stifyinq .

-- need to understandz and it
prob ab ly w'ill ref Lect my ignorance w ith regard to
14
this subject, but what is the ''it'' that you want
15
back?
o3:ov
In other words , if I we re to w rite an
17
o rd e r t od ay a n d s a i d
18
g ive 'it ' back '' w hat is ''it'' and wh at w ould ''it''
19
loo k like if ''it'' was sitting in front o f me?
20
93:06
But --
13
16
r.s,
. -
''o ka y
M r . M on tg om e r y h a s t o
MR . PEEK : It would look just exactly the
21
way Slo an testified it was, your Honor , w hich is
22
lines o f code .
23
THE COURT :
On a p iece of paper ?
24
MR . PEEK : No, no.
(775) 323-5492
03:07
I-'-)
(
THE COURT :
MR. PEEK: On disk.
Actually , it 's an e lectron ic file , so it
4
5
T H E C O U RT :
MR . PE KK :
On a d isk?
O ka y .
03:07
lt cou ld be on a hard drive , it
ould be on a C D RAM , could be on a numb er of ways to
sto re the info rm ation .

T HE COURT :
10
M R . PERK :
A l1 r ight .
But it would be -- as he sa id ,
11
it 's sou rce code w ith in which are wr itten m any , many
12
lines of code which he ll that code how to operate ,
13
how to perform its functionality
Now , we 'll get into a little bit --
15
THE COURT :
M R . P EE K :
18
THE COURT :
20
Wou ld that inc lude all the
03:08
cod es?
17
19
03:07
14
16
170
wou ld be e ithe c on a d is k --
(
*-)
Y e s r i t 's a L l t he c o d es .
For the video , the aud io ,
the -M R . PEEK :
Yesy because a11 o f those We re
21
th e p rope zty of e'Preppid , and a11 o f that was , as h e
22
said, deleted off the file s .
23
THE COURT :
21
MR
PEEK :
Well , we 'll -A nd 1 know th at he 's talked
(775) 323-5492
03:na
-.
1
THE COURT :
MR . PEE.
'K :
A 11 r tght .
Well , we lll see
Where we go with th is .
I just have got that meeting .
if wefve
got to run a little lahe tonig ht , i '11 talk to my
10
staf f about what the ir schedule is , if we can
11
accomm odate --
12
oxtoa
THE COURT :
8
9
It wa s d eleted off o f the
servers .
6
7
1'm sorry for interrupting
you .
4
5
1y1
about --
2
3
t
z%
13
M R . PEEK :
THE COURT :
15
M R . PEEK :
We ll , that 's -Just exac tLy w hat you rre
ta lking about .
17
18
I w ant to get to the m erits ,
you r Hono r .
14
16
THE COURT :
- - k in d o f w h a t m y c o n ce r n
Was .
19
We '11 be in rece ss until about 1 :30 .
20
(Noon recess.)
21
--00 0--
22
23
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24
(775) 323-5492
G3:GB
(....)
1
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--..
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RENO , NEVA DA ; Tuesday, February 7 , 200 6; 1 :30 P .M .
--000--
3
4
THE COUR'
T:
said you had some more quest ions?
MR . FLYNN :
04:3t
Your Honor, in the interest of
time, we'd like to reserve on Mr. Venables subject to
recall .
10
M r . F 1 yn n , y ou
!
/
A1l r.
i.g11t .
THE COURT :
A11 right .
Ca ll you r next
w itness .
04:a1
11
You can step down , sir .
12
MR . PEEK :
13
subject to recall?
Your Honor, m ay he be excused ,
May he be allowed to leave?
14
THE COURT :
15
MR . PEEK :
Yes .
Because ; know that he
16
doesn 't -- ob vious ly because he w ants to recall him ,
17
h e w a n t s h im o u t (af t h e c o u r t ro om .
18
So may he be allow ed to leave?
19
TH E COURT :
20
MR . PEEK :
21
(Witness excused .)
22
(Discussion off the record a
23
MR . PEEK :
24
04:31
Yes .
Thank yo u .
04:31
Actually , Mr . Ste iner w ent to
get him so he 'l1 walk in with Mr. Steiner, so -- I
(775) 323-5492

)
,-)
l
THE BACLIFF: There's nobody out there

now .
MR . PEEK :
S o r r y , yo u r H o no r .
THE CO URT :
M R . PRKK :
THE COURT :
lt rs okay .
MR . FLYNN :
Your Honor r wh ile they re
He was right there .

04:32
That 's a11 rig ht .

I thought he was righ t there .
10
looking , w e tr ied to get you some cases on the
11
gove rnm ental p riv Llege secrecy , m ilitary secrecy
12
privizege , and 1 think they were given to your
13
secreta ry as you we re walking outo
11
going to grab th en and get them up to you .

THE CO URT :
16
(The w itness was sworn . )
17
T H E C O U RT :
A 11 right .
04:32
A 1 1 r ig h t .
P le a s e t a ke t he
w itness stand over there .
19
The re 's some wate r the re --
20
T HE W ITNESS :
21
THE COURT :
22
23
24
04:32
so M r . Pulver is
15
18
173
hope .
2
3
(''n
Than k you .
04:a3
-- if you w ant to have a
little bit .
M ake sure wh en you lre testi fying that you
speak up so that everybody can hear you
(775) 323-5492

..--.
w
,,-
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T HE W 1'
JN E,
'SE;:
THE COURT :
174
O k ay .
And try not to speak at the
same time as the taw yer .
T H R W IT N E SS :
Okay .
MR . PEEK :
THE COURT :
MR
MR . FLYNN :
May 1 approach the bench?
THE COURT :
Yes .
Your Honor , may I move this ?
PEEK :
04:a3
Oh , certainly .
Than k yo u .
10
Thank you .
11
M R . FL YN N :
n4:3a
Y o u 're w e lc om e .
12
t
13
Z EHAN G S UN ,
11
called as a w itness , hav ing been first duly sworn ,
15
testified as follow s :
16
17
D IR E CT E XA M IN A T IO N
18
BY M R . JA KOPIN :
19
Q.
Wou ld you tell th e Court your nam e?
20
A.
Oh , my n ame is Zehang Sun .
21
Q.
A nd where do you currently w ork?
22
A.
eT reppid Technology .
23
Q.
A nd what 's your p osition ?
24
1 'm the v kce pre sident of en gineering .
(775) 323-5492
04:a3

1
.
1
(
2
3
4
Q.
-)
was the first school that you went to?

A.
Actually , before the ye ar 2004 , m ost of
the tim e 2 was in schoo t.
THE COURT :
THE W ITNESS :
C a n yo u sp e l l hh a t ?
10
T H E R E P O RT E R :
11
THE W ITNESS :
15
Northern , N -o-r-t-h-e-r-n .
Ho rth e r n .
G-l-a-o-g-o -n-g , Un sversity .
And then my major was telecommunications

and in form ation theory .
A fte r that , 1 went to hhe graduate school
of the same university and my ma jor was digital
17
si g n a l p ro c e s s in g , a nd th a t w a s -- 1 g ra d u at e - - go t
18
m y fir st Master of Engineering from that university
19
in year 1997 .
A fter that , I received a fellow ship from
21
Universit y' in Singapore .
22
sorry, Naryang Technology Core Un iversity .
23
24
:4:34
Northern Giaogong ,
16
20
04:34
undergraduate in un iversity in China called --
14
From yea r 1990 to 1994, I was
13
l7b
..
12
O nce you gradua ted lrom h igh school, wha t
5
6
.
-
The nam e of university is ,
N anyang , N-a-n-y-a-n-g , Technology Core
Univ er sity .
L.
1ZA CHAPEN, CCR r RMR
(775) 323-5492
04:34
o4:a5
P
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176
.
And J spend there about two years and go t
my se cond Maste r 's Degree that was three-dimen sional
ima g e p ro c:e s s i (Rg a nd c om p u te r v i. s i-on .

I n y e a r 20 0 0 , I r e ce ive a n o th e r fu 1 l
a s si s ta nc e's h ip f rom U n ive r s it y o f N evad a - Re n o h e re ,
and that 's why I went to the graduate scho ol here ;
sp ent another fou r years .
9
10
I got my Ph . D . deg ree .
12
13
My degree w as in
BY MR . JA KO PIN :
:4:36
Q.
Did you write a dissertation fo r your
A.
Ye s .
Ph .D .?
M y dissertation was about feature
14
subset selection for vehicle detection .
15
grant -- that was a project supported by Ford Motor
16
C om pany 's Scient ific Research Lab .
That was a
17
T n ye ar 2 0 01 , I q ot a n int e r n sh ip f rom
18
Ford M otor Com pany and I spent three m onth the re .
19
m y work had great potential and that 's why he g ive m y
21
advisor, Professor George Bebbis (phonetic), U NR , a
22
grant to f arther support m y work .
24
:4::6
A fter three m onth , m y boss in Ford think
20
23
04;3s
com pute r science and enqineering .
11
t.'
'
M y work was v ehicle -- for the vehicle

detection and c kass ification .
(775) 323-5492
04:36
i)
1
f
Q.
you used the wo rd feature .

Can yo u tell the Court wha t you mean by
the word feature ?
A.
Fe ature is a rather abstract -- it 's a
concept.
in the w ozk o f pa ttern recogn ition and image
processing .
For example -- I th tn k we can m aybe have
10
an example here - - if we try to d ishinguish between
11
human and , let 's say, an an im al, the feature cou ld be
12
the face , the leg , the head ; th at cou ld b e a feature .
13
Q.
talking akout fea tures o f the vehicle s?

A.
Ye s .
16
Q.
Co rrect?
17
A.
Ye s
18
:4:37
And that --
19
Q.
Go ah ead .
20
A.
A nd m y d issertation wa s about automat ic
21
feature subse t selection , and basical ly my w ork on
22
that produ ct for th ree year .
21
n4:a7
And so you were , in you r dissertation ,
15
23
:4:37
How we direct the ob ject is a terminology
14
(
'
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177
You talked about vehic le detect io n, and
3
4
6)
A fter that , m y wo rk wa s inv ited into
fourth generation Sm art Car . There wa s auto show in
(775) 323-5492
04:37

-,- .
.
(J
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y.ya
2002 in Ch icago and m y wor k was there .
Q.
And w hat d id that work do?
A.
Th at work ks detect vehkcle s and the -- in
front o f the -- in front of veh icle was my softw are
running .
Q.
04:38
And what was that -- you say software
running ; could you exp lain to the Court how thah
software ran ?
A.
That sofkwa re is a -- the software --
10
software is just a sequence of instructions and
11
that -- and the interface betw een hum an and the
12
machin e, :nd we can do some cod ing , use a software:
13
and after the cod ing is done , the m achine convert
14
that into m ach fne language , which first step going to
15
b e the assembly language .
16
o4:3a
17
th e y c a n c o n v e r t t h at to m ac h in e c o d e b e c au se th e re 's
18
no way hum an can read mach ine code , but m achine can
19
read m ach ine cod e .
21
That 's basically -- m ach in e -- how the

mach ine running is based on tha t m achine code .
22
23
24
04:38
A fte r they get so many languages , further
20
The code is just bunch of numbers, like

83, 100, tho se kind o f things .
The c ocle that you refer red to that is the
(775) 323-5492
04:39
)
1
A.
Yes .
Q.
Is tha t called source code ?
A.
Yes .
Q.
And co uld you expla in what that is?
A.
Source code is just a, once again,
Sou rce code is a bunch of sm alle r
fun ctionaiities, you know , m ake su re -- each smaller
10
funct ion doesn 't m ake any sense , but the source code
11
is l ike com bination of those kind of sm alle r
12
function s .
13
to serve a purpose .
15
write the source code .
Q.
That s basica lly why people
o4:4n
And so would each of the comb ination of
17
functions have a num be r of different lines of source
18
code --
19
A.
Ye s .
20
Q.
-- that are asso ciated with it ?
21
A.
Yes .
22
Q.
And then those different functions
23
24
04:39
Th e comb ination of hu o se :unc qyons going
14
16
04:39
inte rface between hum an and m ach ine .
179
human readab le code?
,
$
'
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together provide the overall function of the program ?

A
ves
that 's correct .
L FZA CiIAPEN: CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
:4:40

..-.
;%.-:
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(
Q.
N ow , you 've worked at eTreppid since when?
A.
1 o f t'ic i a2ly jo i-ned the company lst

-
January 2004 .
Be foze that f l work on Lhe consu ltant for
abou t m aykhe th re e wee ks ?
04:40
Y e ah , t h ree we e ks .
Q.
A nd what was your posit ion?
A.
V ice p resident of engineering .
Q.
And have you he ld that po sition
10
cont inu ou sly while you tve b een at eT reppid?
11
A.
Yes .
12
Q.
And what have you r re sponsib ilities been?
13
A.
1 thnk my job falls into two different
14
16
04:40
categor ies .
15
The first category is like a -- m y boss
04:41
gave m e some work to do .
17
And the second ca tegory y l t h in k y t h e
18
eTrepp id m igh t want this kind of wor k, and these two
19
kind of wo rk s .
20
the w ork, my boss 1et me to do first time is evaluate
21
feasib ility , whether or not we can handle that .
22
180
( 'i
I hand le tha t d ifferently , and for
Som et ime the requ irement from the
23
governm en t - - from the cust omer is not v ery realistic
24
and,
fo r examp le , you know , they -- som etim es they
(775) 323-5492
04:41
r)
.. ---
( '!
('
say, ''Oka '

g, can you detect a person ?''
in thah im age may be only five-by - five p ixels big .
4
5
6
we cannot do this; this is the reason .
and th is
If we thin k the product is feasible r
ho a nalyze the p roduch further .
13
w e r e
The second step is going
Most tim e , I 'm going 1:o come up w ith a
For example , if the object -- if the goal

is ''A ,'' then I need to figure out
you know, how to
do ''A .'' W hat we n eed to do , m aybe , we need to get
15
''B '' a nd ''C '' do wn f i rs t
T HE COURT :
04:42
Excuse me .
17
a l i t t le b it ?
18
trouble keep ing up with you .
Can you slow down
I t h in k t h e c ou rt r ep or t e r i s h a v in g
19
If you'd slow down just a little bit
20
THE W ITNESS :
O kay .
So it 's like the
21
tricks are -- the first tim e is th e goal wo uld b e
22
''A '' but taere 's no way we can jump to ''A I$ We need
23
to get ''B '' and ''(

: '' down fi rs t .
24
04:42
tree structu re .
14
16
04:11
going to be the first step .
12
p e r so n
''
And I also give som e suggestions
going to the second step .
11
Rut the
If this things happen , I wou ld say , ''O kay,
10
f'
181
--.
If we ne6,d to get ''B'' and ''C'' do w n ,
(775) 323-5492
we
04:42

.p...
,..-'
1f)g
m i g ht n e ed ''D e' ERn d ''EIr '' th o se th in g s ba s ic a 1 ly and

,
a na lyze these who le th ng s , 1'm go kng to get a tree
st ructu re .
A fter ) get this , I need to further
a naly ze , vou know -- fo r examp le , each note on the
t re e
''B '' ''C '' ''E1 '' ''E '' t h ey a r e a s ub ta s k

:
7
8
i.s a
sub -a lgorjthm .
We need to eva luate whether o r
good a lgorithm to finish that task .
10
basically we 're don e w ith this step
11
con fident we can do th is .
12
04:42
not we have
If we do , hhen
.
W e c an - -
04:43
Next: step , m ost t kme , is 1 'm go ing to
13
w rite a code u sinq a too l , a lanquage called MATLAB

,
14
and the Math -- w ith the MATLAH cod ing p e riod --
15
m aybe , you know , a fber we need -- I need to do each

,
16
eve ry sub functon , test each , every sub function

, t he n
17
comb ine a11 those things toqether
18
the who le th ing m eet ou r goa l .
s e e w h e t he r o r n o t
19
If they do , then I 'm d one .
20
If they don 't , I need to go ba ck and r you
21
22
c4:43
:4:13
kn ow , figu re out wh y .
We do th is back and forth couple t ime s,
23
and after this , 1 'm going to , you know

, p resent the
24
result to my boss, and if m y boss thin k that ; s o kay

,
'
..-
(775) 323-5492
. . - -
)
f
then next step ts , we try to conve rt thah into a ''C ''
coder C++ code .
And until that step , basicalky t'm going
to alte r my hand -- alter m y hand , 1 on ly responsible
for , you know y the peop le -- depends on algorithm so
the eng ineer can converh hhat to ''C '' code ,
maybe , you know , tbe customer requ ires , you know ,
interface , and tfal no t re spons ibke fo r th at .
RY MR . JA KO PIN :
10
Q.
11
12
A l1 righ t .
an d th e n
You said a 1ot there .
THE COURT : I mean, I don't want to
14
curtail pour exam tnation r but what does a11 this have
15
to do w ith the issues that we 're trying to decid e
16
here ?
MR . JAKO PIN :
to do w ith th e writing o f software , of source code o f
19
eT repp id that spec ifkcakly relates to pattern
20
recogn it ion , to anoma ly detection , and th is is a
21
witness who h as w ritten code that is used fo r that ,
22
and so -THE COURT :
04:44
Well, you r Honor , this has
18
24
04:44
b it b eca use --
13
23
04:44
Why don 't we try to brea k it up a little
17
')
W ell
I th ink it 's on ly fair
for me to tell you , I really d idn 't unde rstand about
LIZA CHAPEN, CCRy RMR
(775) 323-5492
04:44

..w.
'v
()
90 percen t. o f what he sa kd , and paEt of tt ts my kac k
o f t rain ing and education in the area that he 's
talking about , and two, pa rt o f it is lanquage and
that 's not an ybody 's fault, bu t --
MR . JA KOPIN :
7
8
9
1 '11 try to brea k it up
THE COURT:
-- I'm just trying to tell you
what I wou ld want to know if I we re in your shoes .

MR . JAKO PIN :
Uh-huh .
We ll, than k you , your Honor .
11
T HE COURT :
parts o f it , if you think 1 need to know about them ,
13
it 's your time : but I'm just simply saying that 1
14
would apprec iate it if you can avoid that y to the
15
extent that you can , and still exp la in to m e what I
16
need to know about w ho se p rope rty this is , how it
17
b ec am e t h e i r p r o pe r t y , wh e n Yt w a s d e v e lo p e d , w h a t
18
about th is patent or th is copyrigh t from 1985: those
19
are the knd s of th ings I 'm go ing to have to decide .

W hat he said here to day , 1, fran kly : I
teli you very honestly do not understand .
22
So , you know --
23
M R . JA KO PIN :
Than k you r you r Honor .
.'
24
04:45
And so , aga in y the technical
12
21
04:45
into --
10
20
184
By MR . Jl yo pzx :
(775) 323-5492
04:45
o4:4s

-...
)
1
t
,
You just described steps that you used to
ma ke software at oT repp id , correct?

A.
Ye s .
Q.
And is that source code that is qenerahed
at eTrepp id ?
04:46
A.
Ye s .
Q.
You gene rate one kind of source code idto
what you ca llecl MAT LA B?
A.
Yes, I used MATLAB for to test my ideas .
10
Q.
O kay .
11
A nd then another kind o f sou rce
A.
Yes .
13
Q.
C o r r ec t ?
14
A.
Yes .
15
Q.
Now , is there softw are that you have
16
w ritten at eTrepp Ld that then uses that process to
17
m o v e p a t te r n r e c og n it i o n ?
19
20
A.
wa s related to pattern re cogn it ion .
Q.
Wou ld you describe som e o f the diffe rent
kind s of so ftw are that you wrot e at eTreppid that
22
relates to pattern recognition?
24
04:46
I th in k most o f my -- a lm ost al1 my work
21
23
04:46
code that that is converted to is; called C++?
12
18
1()s
Q.
.....'
A.
For exam ple y face d etection is try ing to ,
you know, detect the face in 1ab video , and also
(775) 323-5492
04:46

186
1
(
motion detection .
So i. f someone walk into a, you know , a
restrict zone , and also im age regist ration , if, you
know : the v ideo was taken from a mov ng p latfo rm .
5
6
A 11 those code y actually ,
('
And so registration was one kind of sdurce
code re latin g to pahte rn recogn ition tha t you wrote?

A.
Yes .
10
Q.
A nd sofhware that wou ld detect the face of
11
a person was another kind of source code that you
12
wrote?
13
A.
Ye s .
14
Q.
And then another kind of source code that
15
you wrote relating to pattern recognition wa s fo r
16
m otion dete ct ion?
17
A.
Ye s .
18
Q.
Did you write any source code at eTreppid
A.
Yes, 1 did .
21
Q.
O kay .
23
24
c4:47
04:47
relating to tracking of a vehic le ?
20
22
Q.
19
04:17
respon sible .
7
8
I was
04:47
So those different kinds of sou rce
codes , you would w rite in what was called MATLAB ?

A.
Yeah, the first step -- the first step is
in MATLAB.
=
(775) 323-5492

%w;o
* '
18 7
be converted to C+4?
A.
Ye s .
Q.
O kay .
6
7
ls there a kind of app lication that
you eve done at eTrep pid called a nom aly detect ion?
A.
Yes .
June two thou sand -- I think June last yea r .
Q.
A nd what was that?
A.
It 's try to dete ct som ething and --
which
10
not suppo sed to be a certa in -- not supposed to
11
present in a certain image .
13
Q.
see in the p icture ?

A.
Right .
15
Q.
And that's called anomaly detection?
16
A.
Right .
17
Q.
A nd so you wrote source code fo r that at
18
eTrepp id ?
19
A.
Yes ,
20
Q.
Okay .
22
o4:4a
So tt 's something that you don 't expect to
14
21
04:48
There was someth ing T had done in
12
A nd the second step for a1l of tho se could
Q.
I did .
And is that anomaly detection a
form of p attern recognition ?

A.
Yeah .
o4:4a
Anom aly detection can consider only
23
one kind o f patte rn recognition , pattern
24
classification.
LIZA CHAPEN, CCH, RMR
(775) 323-5492
04:4s

188
Now , was a lL the wo rk Lhat you have
done while at efpreppid your orfginal work?

A.
Yes .
Q.
Did yo u use any source code that
M r . Montgom ery prov ided you in do ing that work?
A.
A s (ar as I 'm aware , no .
Q.
Okay .
that you w rote ?

A.
Ye s , T thin k so .
10
Q.
W ho repo rts to you on your team at
11
eTrepp id ?
12
A.
13
And do you want the name?

Q.
Yes , p lease .
15
A.
O kay .
''Yum i''
17
Navin , Saurabh , Krishna , M ichael,
Q.
Do certain of those eng ineers w ork on
projects that relate to source code of pattern
19
recognition?
20
23
24
04:49
Suchit a; all th ose engineers rep ort to m e .
18
22
n1:49
A 1l the eng ineer report to me .
14
21
o4:4a
Does eTrepp id own the source cod
16
Okay .
Q.
A.
Yes .
Q.
O kay .
Nav in and Saurabh and K rishna , Yong
M ian .
Do those enginee rs hav e work
stations that they use to save the ir source code on?
A. ves.
(775) 323-5492
04:49

-.
$
'
Q.
1()9
Do they, then , save source code that
they 've worked typicalty on their machines on a
s e rv e r ?
A.
Yeah , I think so .
Q.
And do you know the name o f that server at
eTrepp id?
A.
I t hink called SRCSERVER o r --
Q.
O ka y .
A.
Yeah , called SRCSERVER .
10
Q.
A re you awa re o f whether the eng inee rs are
Yes .
11
now being ab le to w ork on the sou rce code that is
12
stored on the SRCSERVER?
13
14
15
A.
Q.
Okay.
Any other engineers --
o4:b:
MR . FLYNN : Objection , your Honor;

h ea r s a y .
18
BY MR . JA FO PIN :
19
Q.
-- te lt you their code w as gone ?
20
MR . FLYNN :
Hearsay .
21
TH E COURT :
It is hearsay .
22
Su stained .
24
04:50
That was coup le weeks ago z and Krishna
17
23
n4:ba
told m e hbs cod e was gone .
16
j
..
'.'-
04:5:
BY MR . JA KO PIN :
Q.
Have you been able to access source code
LEEZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

,
.e.l
'
Tha lr, ( cannot -- what I can access is
that directory , b ut othe r people 's wo rk, 1 cannot .
Q.
O kay .
1 can on ly access
Is that directo ry for you something
A.
1 thin k so, but I didn 't t ry that .
Q.
We rt: you invo lved kn loo king for source
cod e that had been deleted at the company?
10
A.
So rry , I d idn 't unde rstand th is question .
11
Q.
We re you involved in loo king for any
12
n4:s1
sou rce cod e that had been deleted at the company ?
13
A.
Oh , no .
14
Q.
O ka y .
15
Did Mr . Montqom ery ever p rov ide you
any source cod e w ritten in MATLAB ?
16
A.
No .
17
Q.
O kay .
04:51
W ere you aw are of M r . M o n tg om e ry
18
ev er p rov iding you a program th at was kn C++ that had
19
been converted from MATLAB?
20
A.
No .
21
Q.
Okay .
'
:4:52
Could you exp la in to the Court the
22
typ e o f instructions that M r . M ontgom ery would give
23
to you for projects?
24
o4:5k
that you can access today on the SRC SERVER ?
A.
'
only there 's a di rectory for me .
fr om th e 65RC S E !kV El14?
1()()
('
'
-
A.
Most time is h e give m e a -- show m e, not
LIZA CHAPFN: CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

,...X
f'
give me -- show m e a bunch o f image sequence , v ideo
sequen ce , and so , okay , we can see there 's a vehicle
t he r e , we ca n s e e t #1e re 's w a 1 k tn$) pe o p le ove r t h er e .
C a n w e d e t ec t th a t ?
T h a t is - - no rma l1 y t h i s is 1i ke th a t .
Q.
C a n w e t ra c k t ha t .
det e c.t t h a't ?
A.
A s fa r a s I r em em L)e r r
Q.
W a s t ha t s ome t h in q tha t yo u w e re th e n
no .
re spon s ib le fo r , in fa c t , de he rm in in g h ow t o d o it ?
.
11
A.
Y e s , ye s .
12
Q.
And yolz wou ld t he n do that , and f rom t ha t r
13
A.
Ye s .
15
Q.
A nd t he n f rom tha t , t he eng inee rs wou ld
A.
T h a t 's ctor r ec t .
18
Q.
And from that , then , the software f or that
part icular appl icat ion would b e deve loped?
20
A.
Yes .
21
Q.
O k ay .
'
04:sa
An d t h e re w e r e m a n y d i f fe r en t
22
p a t t e rn r e co g n i t io n app 1 ica t io n s t h a t w e re de ve lo pe d
23
in that way?
24
04:s2
t a ke t hat MATLAB s c rip t and p ut i t into C++ ?
17
19
04:52
Y ou wo u ld t he n w r it e you r MATLAR sc r ipt ?
14
16
04 :52
D id i
ne g i ve yo u an y d i r ec t io n on ho w to
10
1(
.)y
('
.
w
-
A. Yes. And almost every one -- I think
(775) 323-5492

-.
1g).
,
2
eve ry p iece of app l Lcation , every p iece of code is
done in that way .
3
4
Q.
A nd that would include the one that was
detecting the face o f the person?
A.
Yes .
Q.
A nd the one that was doing the mot ion
n4:s3
detection ?
A.
Ye s .
Q.
And the one that was doing the tracking of
10
'-
a veh icle ?
04:5a
11
A.
Yes .
12
Q.
A s well as the registration process?
13
A.
Yes .
14
M R . JAFO PIN :
15
THE COURT :
Okay .
I have nothing m ore .
M r . Flynn .
04:b3
16
17
18
C R OS S EX A M IN A T IO N
BY MR . FLYNN :
19
Q.
Is it M r . Sun ?
20
A.
Yes .
21
Q.
Dr . Sun .
22
23
(
.
24
Doctor .
o4:5a
Thank you .
You have no type of security cle arance

from the U .S . G overnm ent?
A.
No r 1 clon 't .
'
(775) 323-5492

193
t
'
Q.
You have -- you 're not a U .S . c itizen?
A.
No.
Q.
Now , let me see if I understand you r
hestimony .
5
6
A'
O kay .
Q.
You were workinq on creating lines o f
10
codes w ith sou rce codes based on som e type o f an

algorihhm technology for facia l recognit ion?
11
A.
Ye s, that 's one of m y tasks .
12
Q.
You were working on creating lines of code
13
with source codes based on algorithms for object
14
trac king ?
15
A.
Yes .
16
Q.
On your own work station?
17
A.
N o , I w o u ld no t sa y t h at , b ec a u s e a s I
18
04:s4
I do pa rt o f that wo rk and m y group do

part of t hat work .
04:s4
21
Q.
A nd you never worked w ith M r . Montgomery ?
22
A.
What do you m ean b y that?
23
Q. But he never -- from what I just heard --
24
94:b4
exp lained before , that actually is a teamw ork .
19
20
04:53
too , but 1et me see if 1 can unde rstand .
t
.
1 had 8t little hard t im e followint; it,
He was my boss .
Maybe I m isundersto od some th ing .
(775) 323-5492

...)
A-
Uh -h u h .
Q.
He never gave you anything for you to do
A.
I don 't th ink 1 understand

04:55
The th ings -- part of m y work is like he

gave to m e , 1et m e do that .
Q.
Wh at d id he g ive you?
A.
It 's like , most tim e there 's a rad io
10
sequence --
04:55
11
Q.
W ell --
12
A.
-- and 1et m e do it .
13
14
O kay, you know , there 's a video sequence ,

and can you do th is?
15
Things like that .
16
17
Q.
04:s5
I thoug ht you said that he d idn 't g ive you
a n y th in g bh at y ou n ee d ed to do y ou r w o r k .
18
Maybe I m isunderstood th at .
19
A.
20
b ecause it 's like
21
okay , we hav e, you know , video sequence , can we track
22
this p erson ?
23
I 'm con fused .
your question .
6
7
yggjt)
the work vou just described?
f
.
-....
24
Oh , wh at I m ean is , in the level algorithm

any people can ask me , let 's say,
Can we , you know , de tect th is person?
This m ost o f the time , th is is Denn is 1et
me do .
(775) 323-5492
04:55
...y
1
f
Q.
That 's where 1 th ink 1 want ho get .
A l1 -- you did it by yourself?
A.
Parll o f that: yes , I did by myself .
Q.
So you got you r own source codes?
A.
Oh , yes, l th in k that 's true .
Q.
Right now, you lve got you r own sou rce
A.
weeks ago , but now I think part of m y code also
11
m issing .
12
Q.
What part is missing?
13
A.
For example, the anomaly detection , 1
04:56
thin k 1 don lt see that any mo re in m y computer .
15
T hat was talking about maybe a couple
10
Q.
Is that som ething that 's not -- the
16
anom a ly detectg
ion software that 's no longer in your
17
co m p u t e r , i s i t so m et h in g yo u c rea t e d ?
18
A.
Ye s, I d id .
19
Q.
In the last few w eeks, have you rec reated
20
04:s6
codes for a l1 the w or k you pve done ?
14
1:(5
So you created your own source codes .
.. .
it?
04:56
04:56
21
A.
N o , not. yet .
22
Q.
You can recreate it?
23
A.
Ye s, I can .
24
How lon g will it ta ke you ?
(775) 323-5492

..x.
1
A.
1 re a l ly - - 1 r e a ll y d o n 't kn ow , be c a us e
My wo rk is , in the algorithm level, is
like , 1 do some p totecting and get the algorithm
down .
algor ithm .
The actual sou rce code is d iffe rent from the
7
8
if I 1m con fident we can do this, wh ich mean s 1 'm
con fident w e can find algorithm to do that .

The actual codin g actually fo r some other
11
eng ineers , 1 mean, C ++, not in the MATLAB .
12
a ve ry high level source cod e .
13
it's --
14
It 's like a --
C an I use an example here?
Q.
Su re .
16
A.
Okay .
17
Q.
I 'm just trying to get edified, and I
o4:sv
believe the judge is trying to get educated, too.
19
20
G o ahead .
A.
O kay .
MA TLAB is like , fo r examp le, is
21
just a tool and let's say if I want to build a house,
22
the MATLA B m aybe have som e, you know , bu ild ing
23
b locks, lsuke w indow s, foundation .
24
O4:b7
MATLAB is
15
18
04:57
A lgorithm is like a high level th ing and
10
1:6
that depends on -- thks is only part of the things.
If 1 want test my design, just in -- pull
(775) 323-5492
04::7

x.x
.y9:
('
that p artkcula r window , pull that particular
foundation, pull them together, see whether or not
hhat is good , and the th ings r you know , if in com e
the ''C '' code , people have to actually bu ild that
window .
04::8
6
7
know , some tim e .
MA TLA R cod e done , m aybe , you know r in couple weeks,
but I rea Lly don 't know how soon they can d o the ''C H
10
11
12
Th at itself m iqht take, you know , I don 't
13
code .
04:b8
Q.
A. That algorithm?
Yo u 're talking about the MAT LAR or are you
talking about ''C '' code ?
04:58
16
Q.
Wh at you we re working on .
17
A.
M A T LA B .
18
;'
1.
How m any lines o f code make up -- how many
lines of code m ake up an algorithm ?
14
15
Tha t 's why, you know, I can get the
Th at is not very big ; ma ybe , you know ,
19
coup le hundred .
20
Q.
Okay .
21
A.
A t this m om ent ?
22
Q.
Ye s .
23
A.
T th in k I m ight h ave .
24
Do you have those lines of code?
I really don tt --
I m not sare ab out that .
(V75) 323-5492
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Q.
W e l 1.. 14a v e y ou (Dhe (7ked ?
A.
W h a t?
Q.
Have you checked to see w hether you have
1:g
these lines o f code that make up the algorithms that
you worked on ?
A.
04:59
In m y machine -- what I m ean , in my
machine I don n l thin k I have , but I think lat year
my m ach ine got c loned couple times .
10
11
..,
I real Ly don 't know whethe r o r not they
still hav e that code in those clone d isk .
Q.
o4:5a
So fn the last -- have you been looking
12
fo r th ese lines o f code on this algo rithm for the
13
last few weeks?
'
14
A.
No , be(
.na us e
I w as o :1 v a c a t i. o n .
15
Q.
So you don 't know whether anything is
16
A.
I --
18
Q.
It could still be at eTreppid .
19
A.
ln last several days , m y eng ineer to ld me
the ir code wa s gon e .
21
M y code --
22
MR .
23
1.
m issing o r not?
17
20
24
04:59
o4:s9
FLYNN: I object and move to strikez
your Ho nor .
T H E c OU RT :
T h at 1s a 11 r i gh t -
(775) 323-5492

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,
.
MR .
THE COMRT :
His eng ineer told him .
That's a11 right .
I 'm n o t
goinq to consider it for the truth o f jt , but go
ahead .
BY MR . FLYNN :
n4:5a
Q.
M r . Sun, what we 're trying to find out --
A.
Uh -huh .
Q.
-- is anything that you created , o n e , yo u
can re create r correct ?
10
A.
Oh ,
11
Q.
A nd two , anything that you created , a s o f
yes .
04:59
12
the m om en tz we don 'h know whether it ls the re r o r w e
13
don't know based on your personal knowledge?
14
15
16
A.
18
19
1 thin h , ba sed on m y personal know ledge I

,
th in k it 's not there .
Q.
17
('
i
FLYHN :
19g)
'v'
......-
os:no
Now , dc) you know how many types -Do y o u kn ow a n yt h in g ab o u t th e q ov e rnm e n t
cont racts at all?

A.
No : I don 't because I 'm no t supposed to ,
20
you know , ask anything there .
21
the thing s m y b oss 1et me to do .
It's like, I just do
22
Q.
So in terms of, say, object tracking --
23
A.
Uh-huh .
24
Q.
-- do you know how many components of
(775) 323-5492
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object tracking e'lreppid was involved in, some having
to d o with governm ent contracts, some having nothing
to do with governm ent contracts?
A.
A s L said before, no , 1 don 't know about
that .
Qs::Q
Q.
Did you bac k up your work station ?
A.
A ctual ly , m y -- first, m y cmputer is not
a work station and 1 didn 't back up ; the company back
up .
10
1 don 't have anywhere to b ack up .
11
Q.
O kay .
12
A.
Yeah .
13
Q.
Where fs the -- have you checked the
14
15
05:00
The com pany backed it up ?
backup that the com pany did on you r work product?

A.
That out of my hand .
I 'm not allow ed to
16
do that , because basically what w as -- what I
17
r e sp o n s i b le i s th e a lgo r i thm in t h o se l e ve l , a n d
18
whether or not they -- how they b ack up the software ,
19
which I don 't know .
20
Q.
W as Patty Gray ever on your compute r?
21
A.
What do you m ean b y ''on m y computer''?
22
2()o
%r.
Use my com puter or --
23
Q.
Yes , w ithout your perm ission ?
24
A s rar as z ,m aware , no .
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S in c e f yo u know , I (io h a v e a s h a re d
d ir e c to r y , t ha t 's fo r su r e .
3
4
Q.
m is sing r ight now --
A.
a t that t ime , I was in hosp ita l, coup le people work
unde r me call me .
MR. FLYNN: Well, I object and move to

stri ke , your Hono r.
THE WITNESS :
11
M R . FLYNN :
Okay .
Buh Jet them bring them in if
THE COURT: I'm going to hear the
14
evidence .
15
weight I think t 's entit led to .
16
M R . FLYNN :
18
0s:o2
they --
13
17
There 's not a jury here.
1'11 give it the

05:02
Okay .
B Y M R . FL Y N N :
Q.
19
Let me a sk you this , sir .

If you th ink there 's something m issing
20
that you need , in the last two wee ks: have you made
21
any effort to go get it?
22
05:01
T he y s a y - -
10
12
I th in k we know something m issnq , because
Since '
ae don 't know if there 's anything
A.
A s I said be fore , I was on vaca tion last
23
coup le wee ks .
My d aughter was born 9th o f Janua ry .
24
I was on vacatLon.
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05:02

.....
Q.
A . Tha;k 'gou .
Q.
5
6
7
8
9
O ka y .
' 'r
zg:
C o ng ra tu 1a t .io n s o n yo u r d au (Jh te r .
.
Rut in the next few weeks , do you know of
any rea sor. why you ca nnot go find it?
A.
I thin k I m ight want to try , but I rea lly
ns:02
don 't knou whether or not f can find that .
Q.
So as of today ts date , fr purpo ses of
this hearing , you don 't know ?

A.
No .
10
MR . FLYNN :
Thank you .
11
THE COURT :
Red irect?
12
MR . JA KOPIN :
13
THE COURT:
14
MR . JAKQPIN :
15
MR . FLYNN :
Yes z your Hono r .
16
THE COURT ;
You m ay step down .
17
Y o u tr e ex c u s ed .
18
THE W ITNE SS :
19
(W itness excused .)
20
THE COURT :
21
Step forward , sir , and be sworn first .
22
THE W ITNE SS :
23
(The wtness was sworn .)
24
THE COURT: Thank you
05:02
No , your Honor .
May this witness be excused?

Yes .
0st03
T h an k y ou f o r c om i ng .
Okay .
Call your next witness .
Okay .
(775) 323-5492
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11F1H DA LL A . ROM AN ,
ca11ed as a witne:5s, having been first duly sworn,
1 e/5t if ie d a s fo 11ow s :
5
6
7
8
9
10
l1
oblq
BY MR . JAIIOPIN :
Q.
W ou .
Ld yo u st at e and sp e 11 you r n ame r
p le a se .
A.
K en d a 1 l A . Ro man .
MR . FI,YNN :
Your Hono r , ma yb e it Would be
I b e lj ev e th i s is th e e xp e rt .
13
this poin t in p roceeding , let 's -- it 's su ch a waste
14
of time to do an expert .
1 th in k, a t
I would aubmit, if we just put Mr. Trepp
ns:n4
16
and Mr. Montgomery on the witness stand, for judicial
17
e ff i c ie n c y , c u t t h ro u g h a l l o f th is s tu f f a n d q e t t o
18
the bottom of this .
19
W e h ave not been disclosed who he is, any
20
in fo rm ation about h im .
21
put an expert on , on the eurrent state , foundational
22
state o f the re cord , is p urposeless .
23
24
05:04
quicker for me to put my objection in now .
l2
15
D (RRCT EXAMINAT 1ON
THR COURT :
We 've been given noth ing .
To
Wellr I don lt kn ow what he 's
going to say and so, I mean, it's just like the --
'
(775) 323-5492
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you know , ''I ob je(:t..''
''W h ctt ':; yo u r g rou n d s ? ''
''I 1nl no t g o i.ng t o te l1 y ou .''
I cl()n '1. kn ow w he th e r h e ha s so m e th ing to
say that will be he Lpfu to the Court or not .
or may not, and so I can 't just arbitrarily restrict
eithe r side from putt ing som ebody on the w itn ess
stand becau se of their statu s as a 1ay w itness ,
expert w itness , whatever .
10
11
(
,
He may
Let 's go a lttle bit and we 'll see
Wel l: let 's put it this way .
13
CounsekF can you telt me what he 's going
15
16
17
MR. JAKOPIN : Yes, the subject matter is
0s:n5
background to expla tn to the Court about source code .

It 's tc) show he 's had conversations with
variou s em ployees at the company , and in his own
19
language to explain what it is that h as occurred at
20
the compa ny, and to then be able to p rovide to the
21
Court h is op in ion on the dam age that has occur red as
22
a result of what has been de leted .
24
05:05
to -- what's the subject matter going to be?
18
23
05:0b
w hat --
12
14
204
THE COURT :
A 11 righ t .
We ll r let 's take
it a step at a time.
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1
BY MR . JAKOPIN :
Q.
4
5
backg round since high schoo) , please .

A.
Yes .
I have a Rachelo r 's Degree in
com puter science grom Rrigham Young University , 1982 ,
and that deg ree included b0th hardware and software
databases and inter-computer communications , which is
called netwo rking .
Q.
Do you have any experien ce w ith v arious
11
different languages thak are u secl for source code
12
programming ?
13
A.
Yes .
num erous zanguages, including the one s at issue in
15
this casey C++ .
16
Q.
A re you familiar with different compute r
hardw are p latfo rm s?
A.
Yes, I am .
19
Q.
A nd how about different computer software
p latfo rms?
os:07
21
A.
Yes .
22
Q.
Is there an area o f your exp ertise that
23
24
05:06
os:cv
18
20
05:06
l 've studied and programmed in
14
17
/
''
Can you give me you r educational
10
t'
Let 's Hee where we qo with it .
relates tc computer forensic s?

A.
Yes .
Fo r t he 1 as t six y e a rs : I 'v e b ee n
(775) 323-5492

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206
doing expe rt w itness consulting , as well as regular
business consutting , and a 1ot of that work has been
as a computer fo rensic expert .
I 've w orked on eases fo r the government
where I 've don e data recovery: in par ticular r video .
I w as hired b y the State o f California to
recov er video from security cam eras at one of th eir
correct ion al fac izities, and l 've testi fied regard ing
tha t forensic recovery process and also the analysis
10
I 've done of the recovered data .
11
os:o8
I 've also wor ked on cases for the
12
Departmen t of Defense , particula rly the Depa rtment of
13
the N avy r as a defense expe rt .
14
15
05::7
Q.
Have you worked on technolog ies relating
to what w e 've h eard today as softw ar e comp re ssion ?
nstoq
''
16
Yes .
i 've been working w ith , in
17
p articu larr audio and video comp ression for over a
18
decade .
19
I have a number of pend ing patents in the
20
area of v ideo comp ression, v ideo t ransm ission , and I
21
bav e an FDA app roved m edical device that T wa s the
22
p rima ry invento r and developer of .
23
A.
24
Q.
And h ow about with resp ect to pattern
recognition? Do you have background with pattern
(775) 323-5492
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3
recogniticn ?
A.
broad -- a b road scope .
A 11 data compression, at som e .level, is
loo king fc r patterns o f materia l that can be stored
in a m ore e ffityient way .
to loo k fcr a ser ies of zero es in a row and rep lace
that serie s of zeroes with a number that rep re sents

that run length of ze roes .
11
12
a lm o st an y comp ression algorithm .
Theru
there ls this m ore speci fic pattern
14
recognition where we 're loo king fo r a face o r an iris
15
or th inqs like that , and that kind o f patte rn
16
recogniticn has just come to the forefront in the
17
last few years .
18
j'
os:oa
There fs pattern recoqnit ion bu ilt into
13
19
os:ng
A very sim ple way of doing comp ression is
10
4
:
'
,
Welk, pattern recognition has kind of a
MR . JAKOPIN :
05:09
1 'd like to tende r him , your
Honor r a s an expert .
20
THE COURT :
21
Go ahead .
22
M R . JAKOPIN :
23
BY MR . JAKO PIN :
24
I fm satisfied .
A 11 right .
Than k you .
Gettinf) b ack to source code , could you
(775) 323-5492
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'
--
.- -
exp la in to the Gogrt how source code is used b y the
computer?
A.
Ye s .
Computers run programs , basically
that 's what they 're designed to do 4 and the computer
program is simp ly a series of inst ructkon s for the
computer to execu te .
the com puter what to do, we could w rite the
instruct ions at a very 1ow lev ely which is called
10
mach ine languaqe ; zeroes and ones that you 've heard
11
abou t .
05:10
Bu t that 's very tedious , and so what we 've
13
don e is we 've written these hiqher level languages
14
like C++ that actually use Eng lish w ords , and you can
15
put comm ents and various other ways o f m aking it mo re
16
unde rstand able for the hum an being .
17
Qs:1Q
In order for the hum an programm er to tell
12
.-
('
05:1q
So as .
4 programmer , we , in th e text file ,
18
just like writtnq a letter, we write in the speciak
19
language -- it m igh t be MATLA B or it might be C++ o r
20
Java or one of these other languages -- and it 's just
21
an e lectro nic document that has a series of
22
instructions w ritten in the h igh level language , and
23
as a -- a s Sloan testified , there 's a comp iling that
24
takes these source code files and compiles them into
L.EZA CHAPFN, CCRy RMR
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object code and ltbraries, which then a11 get
com piled together to form the executab le p rogram .
A n d s o w he n w e t a l k a b ou t so ftw are , we
u sually td lk ab out the sou rce cocle fo r the proqram ,
a s w ell as the interm ed iate files and the
executables .
Do you have an understand ing ,
based upon you r conversations with d ifferent people
at eT reppjd , as to what sou rce code files were to be

deleted at the company?
os:11
11
MR . FLYNN:
1 object, your Honor.
12
THE COURT :
I 'm sorry?
13
MR . FLYNN: I object, your Honor.
14
THE COURT :
Hearsay?
15
MR . FLYNN :
Yes .
16
MR . JA KOPIN :
17
A 11 right .
10
Q.
n5:11
os:ll
He 's an e xpert, your Honor .
He can reqy on th ings that are not --
18
THE COURT :
Well, I think you --
19
MR . LOGAR :
Only as foundational .
20
THE COURT :
If you 're going to be
21
technical , I think you have to 1ay the foundation
22
th at these are the types of things upon which he
23
would ordnarily rely in the practice o f his
24
profession outside of the courtroom .
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1
MR . JA HQ PIN :
That 's fine .
BY MR . JAFOPIN:
Q.
ln order to make a determ inat ion that
file s have been dttleted at a facility , what would you
norma lly do ?
A.
05:12
Well, Lt 's an industry be st practice to
have some type o f source code contro l system or a way
o f b ac king up you r so ftware .
Computers are machines and hhey b reak
10
dow n , and the storage m edium such as m agnetic disks
11
can actually decay over tim e, and so ev ery software
12
com pany l 've been invo lved in has some typ e of
13
repository wh ere they sto re their so ftware , and the
14
software js usualty organized by projects and there 's
15
lim ited access and there 's some type of tracking .
05:12
j.'
16
A nd so when I wa s b rought into this case ,
17
I specifically as ked the d irector o f R&D and Dr . Sun
18
what software methodo logy W as b eing u sed in this
19
case .
20
In m y first startup company , I actu ally
21
was the manager o f p rocessing con tro ls and tools and
22
I pu t such p rocesses in place , and then th roughout my
23
career, I 've been the CTO , chie f techno logy officer,
24
and in that posltion, I was the one responsible for
(775) 323-5492
05:13
os:13

211
.- )
w ;
,
1
making su re ou r so ftware wa s secure .
So o IRe o f t14e f i rst que s t io n s I a s ke d the
employees was , ''Dict you have such an industry
standard Boftwace contro l proced ure?''
lnt ta Lly, they d id , b ut unde r
M r . Montg omery 's direction , they set up th is other
system that 's not an indu st ry standard m ethodology,
and that system wa s the SRC SERVER .
/
.
And on the SRCGERVER we re num erous
10
directorkes for the subprojects in the ET Latest, so
11
that wa s the eTrepp id Latest sou rce code .
12
Q.
A 1J righ t .
13
A.
And then also they had a work in proqress,
14
17
THE COURT :
Let m e interrupt you for a
Ob:t4
second .
What I'm conce rned ab out is , if you were
18
h ired simp ly to go to eT reppid and look at their
19
comp uters; to determ ine wh ether o r not something had
20
been de leted , outside o f the con text of litigation ,
21
would you r in that proces s, spe ak to pe op le wh o
22
worked the re and rely upon what they told you in
23
order to p ractice your profession ?
24
05:14
which wa s th e ET programm e rs .
15
16
05:13
THE WITNESS: Yes, I would.
(775) 323-5492
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THE COU RT :
MR. FLYNN: Your Honor, may T ask one voir
I im go ing to allow it .
d ire ?
THK COURT :
Ye s, sir .
95:14
8
9
10
11
12
BY M R . FLYNN :
Q.
In the practice of you r profession , would
you first go to the chief tech nical o fficer of the

comp any irt o rder to fulfill Lh at function?
A.
In pract ice , you don bt always -- depends
In pract ice , you don n l a lw ays go to the
14
chief technology o fficer first , bu t in a small
15
com pany l ike th is , I would have go ne to the director
16
of deve lopm ent or CTO .
17
Q.
And that , o f course , Ys M r . M ontqom ery ?
18
A.
We ll , the d irector o f R &D is who I talked
20
o5:1s
to , and that was , I believe , Sloan .
Q.
Bu t the chie f technica l o fficer o f the
21
com pany , particularly w ith regard to this d ifferent
22
security cletect ion system , was M r . Montgome ry ; isn 't
23
that correct?
24
0b:14
on the si z:e o f the organization .
13
19
V ()1.R D IR E EX A M IN A T ION
A.
My understanding is that he had left the
LIZA Ci1APEN ? CCR, RMR
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company a qd was not -- not on site .
Q.
So you never talked to h im ?
A.
That 's correct .
going to hear from M r. Montqom ery, w ithout him having
spo ken to M r . M ontgom ery about what happen ed here r
which I b elieve is going to becom e perfectly clear to
the Court in five m inutesr th is is a11 useless
test im ony .
11
12
THF COURT :
Well , you see , I can 't -- I
14
testimony , then we ll move on and the n I f11 make that
15
evaluatio a.
Let m e hear the
0s:16
I just -- you know, as I'm sure you know,
17
I 'm sure gou 're very experienced and you know that
18
as -- I mean, I knew as a law yer when I came in that
19
the judge and the jury really didn 't get it when they
20
first wal ked in , and I 'm te lling you , I 1m in the
21
p rocess o g gett ing it , but I don 't quite get it yet .
23
24
o5:ls
It seem s to m e that the foundation has
been laid for this testimony .
22
nb:ls
can 't m ak e that determ ination .
13
16
Your Honor, I -- if you 're
10
('
M R . FLYNN :
So I fm going to 1et these people develop

their case and 1 '11 let you do the sam e thing .
If we have to go a little late to do that ,
(775) 323-5492
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w e '1 1 do it .
.
Go ERl
nead .
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
'11
CONT ft1t;E D D 1RECT HXAM IN AT 1ON

BY M R . JA 3:0 P IN t
Q.
D o yo u h av e a n un d e rs ta n cii n g o f w ha t
so u r ce c o cLe h a (1 b e e n de1 e te d a t: th e comp an y ?

A.
A s I m('n t ioned be fo z'e , the re 's t h is ET
L a t e st , w h ic h k s 1)he la te st wo r k 5ng v e r s io n o f t h e
so u r ce c o (je , wh ic h wo u ld b e th e C + + code , a nd t h e
12
prog re s s c ode y wh ich wa s in th e ET p rog ramm e rs o r ET
13
development directory .
My understanding is that the majority of
1$
tho se directories -- the directorie s w ere st ill
16
there , bu t the -- or at least some o f the d irectories
17
are still the re, but the files themselves , t he s o u rc e
18
code files and the execu tab le files h ad a11 been
19
dele ted .
20
21
MR . FLYNN:
Objection to everything after,
''My unde rstan ding .''
22
Hearsay, lac ks foundation .
23
THE COURT :
24
ob:16
lib rarie s , and the n t he re wa s a 1so t h e w o r k in
14
0b:16
I p revio usly ind icated I lm
going to allow that testimony on the grounds that
(775) 323-5492
05:17
05:17

.
'-. j
it 's som ethinq upon which he could reasonab ly rely as
an expert . I'kk gve it the weight I think it 's
entitled to .
Go ahead .
THE W ITNESS :
m ea sure L 3 the number o f giqabytes .
The other quant ifiab le
bytes is CA m egabyte , a billion byte s is a g igabyte

,
and then a trillion b yte s is terabyte .

A nd so on the various servers , there were
11
terab ytes of data and -- wh ich ks extreme ly large for
12
a sma ll software company to have , and on those
13
teraby te servers : there w ere , I think, around 120
14
gigabytes of data , which is a karge amount of sou rce
15
code .
05:17
05:18
16
MR . FLYNN :
17
T H E W IT N E SS :
18
nb:1v
A thousand b ytes is a kilobyte , a m illion
10
I beg your pardon , w hicb is -A la r g e a m o u n t o f so u rc e
code .
19
;?).5
r>....j
M R . FLYNN :
20
BY M R . JA KOPIN :
21
Q.
Thank you .
Os:1a
Now, do you have an opinion as to -- do
22
you hav e an understanding that the source code h as
23
not been availab le for the eng ineers to be w orking
24
with at the present tlme?
(775) 323-5492

<.,e
...- :
1
226
1
1
A.
process of events that happened between December 21st
and Janua ry 10th , the ind iv idua l p rogrammers ' work
statkons nad h ad their h ard dr ives w iped out and
zeroed , w nich m akes; it very d ifficult to recove r, if
not im pos sible .
attempting to recover some o f that da ta , but they 're
only reco zering bits and p iece s and that process

hasn 't bee n comp leted .
11
05:19
A nd then there also was th is RA ID se rve r
12
that was za ken out , physically taken out of the
13
building , and m y unde rstand inq is th at has not been
14
returned .
15
MR . FLYNN: Same objection .
16
I know you fve alread y ruled y your Honor,
17
but just rzo preserve the record .
18
THE COURT :
19
05:19
The SRCS;KRVER had been era sed , and they 're
10
:45, understandinq is that through the
Yes .
05:19
The record Will reflect your
continuinq objection --
20
MR . FLYNN :
Thank you , your Honor .
21
THE COURT :
-- if you want to do it that
22
way .
23
BY MR . JA KOPIN :
24
Q.
A re you aware that there 's a recovery
(775) 323-5492
05:19

... xj
xw -j
2I-/
1
A.
Yes .
Q.
While that recovery p rocess is onqoing , dc)
the engineers have the ab ility to work w ith that
source code tha t has been recovered ?
A.
access to those machines because they dve been taken
o ff the netw ork .
Q.
A nd evelu
then , ultim ately i f only a
10
certain p ercentage of source code is recovered , is --
11
let 's say 30 pe rcent o f the sou rce code is
12
recovered -- w ou ld that imp ly that 30 percent of the
13
effort is recovered, as well?

A.
05:20
I've worked on projects wherey let 's say,
15
there 's a hund red file s, and because o f a hard d isk
16
failu re , som e o f those file s could no t be re cove red .
17
Fizling in the m issing pie ce s can be v ery
18
time -con sum ing .
19
to a starting point wh en I 've lost files in the past ,
20
even fo r a very small case .
21
ns:ta
The short answe r is no w they don 't have
14
p rocess go tng on Lrying to recover th is sou rce code?
os:2o
It h as taken m e m onths to get back
us:2o
It lite rally to ok m any months of being
22
able to figu re out wha t was -- first of all , what 's
23
m iss ing ; second of all, trying to recreate that , and
24
especially difficult if the employees who wrote that
(775) 323-5492

!*zW :
r
218
i
* 'Q
.
so fhware Ln the first place eithe r forgot , b e c au s e
they dkd kt a year ago, or worse case, theyfve left
the company and so the peop le w ho d id the o riginal
work are not ava ilable to recreate it
So in thts case , whe re the re 's been a
large amount of source code deleted and just
fragments of it b eing recovered , it could easily take
man yea Es o f e ffo rt to get b ac k to a point whe re the
company could be as productive as they we re on
11
December ;h1st .
Q.
05:21
G iven that the com pany has been creat kng
12
source code for seven years w ith nume rous employees
13
would it L)e your opin ion that that 's a substantial
14
amount of source code to h ave to rec reate?
15
A.
16
17
Y es .
MR . JA KO PIN :
I hav e noth ing further for
th is w itness at th is t kme , y o u r Ho n o r .
18
TH E COURT :
Do you have any questions?
19
MR . FLYNN :
Just a coup le .
:::22
21
22
ps:2l
20
05:21
10
CRO SS EXAM INAT ION

BY MR . FLYNN :
23
Q.
Do you have a secu rity clearan ce , M r . --
.
24
A. I do nc)t
(775) 323-5492

:.-.,.
w.
219
.,
)
Q.
a11 the hitrd d rives?
3
4
A.
ab le to do tha ty amount of work .
Q.
How long have you been re tained ?
A.
I was first t
nontacted Thu rsday o r Friday .
Q.
How much have you been paid so far?
A.
N othlng .
Q.
How much are you go ing to get paid fo r
your testimon y here?

A.
The --
12
Q.
What 's the deal?
13
A. Oh, I'm being paid by the hour.
14
Q.
H ow much?
15
A.
Three-ninety an hour is th e rate we charge
Q.
How many hours hav e you pu t in so far ?
18
A.
I would say less than 40 .
19
Q.
So you hav en 't checked an y of the hard
d rives .
ns:22
21
22
23
24
95:22
the client .
17
20
os:22
0s:22
11
16
I ve not been retained long enough to be
10
And did you actually go check p ersona lly
Do you know how many hard d rives there

are ?
A.
I know that there ls a -- I know that there
are 14 programmers,
each of those p rogramme rs have
(775) 323-5492
(-.,j
two to hh ree m achirres, and som e of those m achines
have multtple drives, so they have operahing system
drives and then renlovable --
Q.
We re you in the courtroom --
A.
-- p rogram drives .
Q.
W ere you in the courtroom when
220
:b:23
Mr . Venab tes sa id that 80 percent o f the so ftw are is
still on the com ptlters?
A.
I don 'h thin k 1 was in he re at that
10
particu la r moment, but I know like the ope rating
11
system is sti ll there .
12
... )
13
14
15
It 's the source code that 's been de leted .
Q.
So urce code of ''it z'' buh you do n t know
what the 'it '' is yet e ither , do you ?

A.
We ll, the source code of each p rogrammer 's
16
w ork , and each of the programm ers is wor king on
17
d ifferent com ponents .
18
19
20
21
Q.
05:23
Bas ically , all you dv e done today is parrot
wha t the employees hav e already told you ?

A.
W ell , I also b ring the light that I have
of understand ing the technology and --
22
Q.
Understand ing --
23
A.
-- what goes into the so ftware developm ent
('
24
05:23
process , and also what is industry standard procedu re
LIZA CiIA PEN, CCR: RMR
(775) 32 3-5492
05:23
..')
-
..
- -.
,w
221
.
for p rese rving sou rce code , a nd th e n a tso th e
forensic data recovery aspects of the case.
Q.
assum ing riles are gone or deleted -- it kind of has
that intent kon ality context that som eone snuck in and
files are no longex there : for whatever reason .
if som e in ternal clev ice in the comp uter , intru sion
detection device de stro yed the files : as opposed to
11
som eone g oing n and som ehow de let ing them ?

A.
I 've done a 1ot of work r specifically
forensic -related wo rk to -- recovering deleted files
13
and the re are -- eve ry b yte of data p otentially can
14
b e a trace of in fo rmation r and so when w e 're talking
15
abou t b illions and trillions o f b yte s of data
16
are a larre number o f traces .
17
s:21
12
os:zs
So when l go in Lo do fo rensic analysis ,

I 'm loo king for in fo rm ation that 's stored in the
19
compute r, o r T 'm a tso looking at how the in form at ion
20
has been alte red , when it 's be en altered , and I am
21
ab le to recon struct what happened in num erous
22
situations .
24
the re
18
23
:5:24
A re you ab le to d iffere ntiate the reasons
10
A re you able , as an e xp e r t , t o d e te rm i ne ,
So if t here wa s a p rogram that deleted the
file, on there w izl be a trace .
(775) 323-5492
os:2s

....
rw )
222
1
lf tt was deleted by a part icular
individuat, tbere may be a log entry that shows that
ndividua t logg ing in .
the re actually have been histo ry of the commands that
we re entered , and so in som e of the cases w here I 've
gone in to do th is fo ren sic wo rk , I actua lly was able
to identi fy wh o logged in , which m achine they logqed
in from , an d t he actua l command s th ey used to delete
10
11
12
There aze -- I've worked on cases where
13
the files .
Q.
ob:25
os:26
But he re you haven 't b een around long
enough to do th at yet?
A.
That ds correct.
14
MR.
15
THE COURT :
FL YNN :
Than k you .
Any further w ith this w itness?
05:26
16
17
REDIRECT EXAM INA TION
18
BY MR . JAKO PIN :
19
Q.
20
detection device .
21
C oun se l had m entioned an intrusion

0::26
A re you aware of so ftw are compan ies who fve
22
deve loped source code p utting dev ices on that source
23
cod e to then destroy it?
24
It 's a very common practice to develop a
LFZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

.i
a.
-. )
,
223
fire wall , b0th ha rdware and so ftwa re , that detects
intrusion onto a network and we've heard some
testim ony about that z that there 's this Cisco router
tha t has Lim its o f what com es in , and w hen it detects
an intrus ton, ih achually loqs i : and bloc ks it .
Tha t is alm ost un iversal in comp anies that
are connected to the Internet .
8
9
0s:26
Th is concept of u sing an int rusion device

to des hroy the company fs assets is a very unusual
10
thing , and usually the CTO or the p eople in charge
11
wou td be resp onsible for m aintain ing the comp any 's
12
source cocle assets .
13
05:27
And so something that would delete the
14
only copy that the company had would b e reckless and
15
very costly to the company .
16
MR . JAKOP JN :
17
MR . FLYNN :
0s:a7
Than k y()u .
One m ore th ing s th en .
18
19
20
21
22
23
f'
24
RECRO SS EXA M INAT ION

BY MR . JA KOPIN :
Q.
:s:27
Have you ever wo rked for a company where
the governm ent o rdered that type of a sy stem ?

A.
No , I have not .
MR
FLYNN :
It se em s very unu sual .
Th ank you .
LIRA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(77b) 323-5492

...t..j
22 (
. ,
l
/
(
T H E CO U FT :
W itness may be
excused .
(Witness excused.)
M R . PEE F :
Y o u r H on o r , I 'm going to
proffer an a ffidavit from the United States Air Force
in which -
M r . Flynn , where Mr . Hennessy, who g ives the
affidav it . savs that, ''I understand that
M r . Montgom ery has stated that certain governmental
o fficials requ ire that eTreppid put into p lace a
11
security p roto col that would cause eTreppid source
12
codes to be'' -- ''source code to be autom atically
13
deleted if anyone attempted to access it improperly .
14
To the best o f my know ledge y no A ir Force official
15
requires such a security protocot .
''
available by telephone ff there 's an objection at al1
18
to this a ffidavit .
19
MR . FLYNN:
23
24
os:28
The only objection we have,
w e -- I th ink t should be sea led .
21
22
05:2:
I unde rstand that M r . Hennessy m ay be
17
20
05:27
I th ink it addresses this issue ra ised b y
10
16
1%
l..
A 11 r ig h t .
MR . PEEK :
W ell y w e filed it sealed , your
Hon or .
MR . FLYNN :
W e would be stuck w ith a
w ai ve r i s s;u e .
LIZA CHAPEN, CCR? RMR
(775) 323-5492
ns:28
(*e*')
(w
.
knowledge
We don 't doubt that the Air Force has no
knowledge
The Ajr Force is not the agency w e 're
dea ling with in this particula r tn stance , so --
MR . PERK :
W ell, that ma y be the ir them e ,
05:29
your Honor .
THE COURT :
Well, there 's no objection to
the affidavit y then --
MR . LOGA R :
Well , it s hea rsay .
10
THE COURT :
Plus in the context o f th is
11
pa rticu lar hea ring , 50th sides have filed
12
affidavits --
la
MR . p:EK :
14
THE COURT : -- without objection, so --
15
MR . PEEK :
veah .
Chapte r 31, your Honor , perm its
hearing on affidavit, so does Rule 65, and I just
17
said that th e gentleman is ava ilable by telephone if
18
the Court wan ts to talk to the witn ess by telephone .

M R . FLYNN :
os:29
The - -
16
19
('
'
225
W e don 't doubt that the A ir Force has no
ns:29
And I subm it , you r Honor, if
20
it becomes imp ortant enough as we go on , I 'm going to
21
reserve ; we m ay have to have Mr . Hennessy on the
22
telephone .
23
THE COURT :
I 'm sorry?
24
M R . FLYNN :
If --
(775) 323-5492
05:29
(.....
k
-...
.. -
THE COU1?T :
MR. PEE'
,K: Mr. Hennessy.
T H E C O UR T :
O h , M r . Hennessy r I 'm sorry .
M R . FL Y NN :
M r . Hennessy .
MR . PEF
=K :
THE COURT :
Have who ?
John Mr . He n n e s s y .
Yeah .
to: but right now I can 't judge that.

MR. FLYNN:
E'1l reserve my objection --
THE COURT :
A 1l right .
10
MR . FLYNN :
-- unti L such tim e as we
11
determ ine whe ther --
12
MR . PEEK :
Your Honor , then , w e have
T HE COHRT :
A l1 right .
Step over here
fir st to be sworn, please , sir .
ns:aa
16
17
WAR REN TREPP ,
18
ca lled a.s a w itness , hav ing been first duly swo rn ,
19
testified as follow s :
20
21
05:29
Mr . T repp , I think , who is going to testify next .
14
15
05:29
lf w e n e e d t o , we n ee d
13
22 6
D IRECT EXAM INAT ION
22
BY MR . JA KO PIN :
23
Q.
C an I h ave your nam e, p lease .
24
wa r re n T ce pp .
LCZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

p- ,
Q.
Wb at 's your current occupat ko n?
A.
1'm the CEO of e'Creppid Technologies .
Q.
For how long have you been that?
A.
A b o ut se ve n ye a r s r s i r .
Q.
Prior to eT reppid , what d id you do ?
A.
1 worked on -- 1 was actually sem iretired
for a wh ile m a king personal in vestments / and p rior to
that: I w orked on W all Street fo r about 20 yea rs .
Q.
Wh at 's your educational b ackground ?
10
A.
I graduated h igh school and too k some
Q.
Do you have any techn ical training ?
13
A.
Re lative to?
14
Q.
Relative to so ftwa re ?
15
A.
Noth ing that 1 haven 't been ab le to learn ,
16
with the excep tion of the time 1 spent with the
17
company .
19
20
cs:%
ns:31
c lasses in co l tege , but got no deg ree .
12
18
227
11
I+
Q.
O kay .
:5:31
Exp la in how you cam e to be inv olved
w ith eT reppid ?
A.
I w as introdu ced to Dennis by a th ird
21
party who said that Dennis had what cou ld be a great
22
opportunity for an investment in the high tech w orld .
23
Q.
Did there com e a tim e when you m et
24
Mr . Montgom ery?
LTZA CHAPEN: CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
0s:31
,
'v .
, ...
.
z-
228
A.
Ye s .
Q-
wh e n w a s; t ha t ?
A.
1 b e ljeve T met him the frst t im e in '96,
''
5
6
7
1
.
Q.
Tn your initia l d iscussions , did you com e
A.
Well , Dennis be lieved that he had a
p otential to create a better com press io n pattern
recognition technology that could be developed ove r
10
tim e with the appropriate em ployees and capital to
11
bring to fru ition something th at wou ld be
12
revolutionary to the industry as is .
13
Q.
form ing eTrepp id ?
'
A.
Yes .
16
Q.
And as part of that fo rm ation , w as there a
At the end of 1998 .
05:32
series of ag reements that were entered into?
18
A.
Yes .
19
Q.
Was one o f those a Contrib ution Ag reement
20
that was signed whe re certa in technology of
21
M r . Montgome ry was sold to the company?
22
A.
That is correct .
23
Q.
And was there , then , a lso an Operating
24
o5:a2
Did there come a time th at you ended up
15
17
os:31
to some idea as to what a company was go ing to do?
14
('
and then T met h5m again in 1997 .
Agreement that was formed at that same time?
(775) 323-5492
os:az

..,
(>.
22 9
)
.
A.
Yes .
Q.
Dtd Lhe Operating Aqreement dkctate how
3
4
the compa ny wou Ld c'perate?

A.
M R . JAKO PIN :
M R . PERH :
05:33
Th e c ou r t
W e will m ark it as
Exh ib it 2 ,. because I believe the cha rh was Exhibit 1 .
THE W ITNESS :
Your Hono r , I le ft m y
THE COURT :
t kn ow the feeling ,
13
MR . LOGA R :
Your Hono r, are we marking the
exhib its consecut Lvely ?
15
THE CO URT :
16
MR . JA KOPIN :
17
Yes .
THE COURT :
19
MR . JA KO PIN :
20
THE CO URT :
21
MR . PEEK :
T he cha rt w as m arked as
Yeah .
Th is is Exh ibit 2 .
Yes
05:33
That 's fine with me
, you r
Hono r, instead o f A , B , C .
23
24
05:33
Exhib it 1 .
18
22
05:33
g lasses over there .
12
14
f
.
Get it m arked firsh ,
MR . JAKOPIN :
10
11
l hand you a copy .
clerk --
'
l
Certain ly .
THE COURT:
It just makes it easier to
deal with .
(775) 323-5492
)-.-.)
MR .
(Exhibit 2 was marked for identification )
PREK :
I agree .
.
BY M R . JA KO PIN :
Q.
ls Lhis a copy of the init ial Operating
A greement that we w ere re ferring ho in hh e p revious
question ?
A.
Yes .
Q.
And at the tim e was the company known as
10
A.
It w as .
11
Q.
Referr kng to what ia page six at
05:34
12
paragraph 2 .7, do you see the paragraph th at 's
l3
ent i t le d F'u rp o s e ERn d B us i n e ss o f LLC ?
14
A.
Yes .
l5
Q.
Is i t slo ur un d e r st a nd in g t ha t w o u ld b e ,
16
''To develop , p atent , dist ribute, license and exp loit
17
in any m anner and on a worldw ide basis tha t certain
18
software com pression technology contributed b y the
19
Montgomery Trust and now owned by the LLC p ursuant to
20
the t erm s and conditions of the M ontgome ry Trust
21
Contribu tion Agreem ent and to fin ance any and a11 of
22
the foreg oing actvities''?
24
os:3q
Intrep id Techno logies , LLC?
23
230
,--'
y
That wa s collectively the b usiness?
That 's c o r re c t
.
(775) 323-5492
os:34
05:35

'.
'--'
. k
,
2 31
l
T H E CO U R'
f:
interrupttng, but it helps me if you can tell me
where th is is .
4
5
Ts th is the Amended Ope rating A greement or

is th is anothe r orte?
Th is is at page six , your
Honor , of the Ope rating Agreem ent o f Intrep id
Technolog ies --
TH E CO UHT :
10
11
13
And wa s tha t --
MR . JA KOPIN ;
M R . PEEK:
lt s the orig inal one ,
MR . JAHOPIN :
15
THE COURT :
your
It 's the origin al one .
And where is that in the
Because I've got an amended one dated two
18
thousand -- November the lst r 2001, and either -- if
19
there 's one in here I can loo k at , that 's fine .

Oth erwise , I wouldn 't m ind , if nobody else
21
does , loo king over M r . T repp 's shou lder , because I
22
want to see what we 're talking ab out .
23
24
05:35
exhib its?
17
20
os:35
Honor.
14
16
-- dated Sep hem ber 28th ,
1998 .
12
05:35
M R . JAKO PIN :
N ow , ex c u se m e f o r
MR . JA KOPIN :
I believe it wa s attached as
an exhibit to Lhe Reply, your Honor .
LEZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
05:35

....-.h
,
.
..
....)
.- .
.'
MR . PEEK :
MR. JAKOPIN: But 1 can hand you a copyz

if that w au zd be more efficient .
THE COURT :
t g o t th e am e nd e d an d
re stated , and I 'vo got an assignment o f patent , a n d
tha t's -- I don 't see the oth er one .

M R . JA KOPIN :
Honor .
THE COUHT :
A 11 r ight .
10
MR . LOGA R :
Your Hono r r m ay I ask what
THE COURT :
13
you come up he re and look at it .
14
M R . LOGAR ;
Just give me the tit le .
15
THE COURT :
It 's Operating Agreement o f
MR . LOGA R :
'
Vhe one that rs been mar ked a s
T HE COURT :
I can only tell you that 's
what they represent to m e .
05:a6
21
MR . LOGAR :
O kay .
Thank you .
22
THE CO URT :
O kay .
We rre on p ag e sixw
23
24
05:36
E xh ibit 2 :'
19
20
l fve been g iven -- why don ft
In trep id rechnolog ies, LLC .
17
18
os:36
you fve b een qiven by counsel?
12
16
os:a6
Here is a copy for your
11
O kay .
Well --
232
r ight?
Pa ragraph 2 .7, if I remembe r righ t?
MR . JA KO PIN :
Right .
L'
.EZA CHAPENr CCRt RMR
A nd that wa s --
(775) 323-5492

u-8Y
?
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2.
33
l
.
i
.
T i!F. C OIJRT :
M R . kTAK()PiN :
- - th e bus i ne s s o f t he
company .
T H'
. CO U !1T :
M R . P F'
.F=K :
Je 1'r y L:; lo o ki ng a t i t .
A 1 l ri(gh t .
You r 14(3nor !
' ju st -- may w e have a moment ,
W e 're 1o (ak in g a t it .
.
p lea se .
THE CO URT :
Yes .
Yeah .
10
MR . PEEK :
11
Your Honor, it is actually attached to the
Than k you .
05:34
12
Reply , bu t the pzob lem is , ih 's the last d ocument of
13
Exhibit A .
14
A who le series o f Operating Agreements are
15
attached as Exh ib it A , so I apolog ize w e didn t brea k
16
them down r but it 's actually in there .
17
18
THE COURT :
That s al1 right .
05:37
This is a
document E just got --
19
MR . PEKK :
20
THE COURT :
21
0s:3v
O ka y .
('
- - -
Yeah .
So I haven ft had a chance to
read it --
22
M R . PEEK :
23
THE COURT :
24
A1l right.
O kay .
-- w ith a w ho le 1ot o f care .
(775) 323-5492
s:37

wezh
(.w.
23 4
1
M R . JAKO PIN :
2 .7 f your Hono r .
THE COLIPT :
MR . JA KOPIN :
The Purpose and Bu siness o f
th e LL C .
05:37
MR . JuOGJ R :
Has the document been kdentified and
10
THE OOUFT ;
Exhibit 2
11
12
1 und erstand that it 's
1 --
ns:37
M R . LOGA R :
Ha s it been offered into
THE COURT:
It has not been offered into
evidence ?
13
14
Excuse me , your Honor .
o ffe red into ev idence ?
evidence .
15
MR . LOGAR: Thenr 1'11 object to any
16
reference to the body o f the d ocum en t until it is .
17
B Y M R . JA ICO PI N :
18
Q.
Exh ibit 2, w hich is the Ope rating A greement o f
20
Intrep id Techno log ie s, the agreem ent that was entered
21
into between Friend ly Cap ital Pa rtners , Fremont
22
T rust, and Montgomery T rust?
24
A.
o5:a7
M r . Trepp , is what ha s been identified as
19
23
Yeahz I 'm with you .
('
1 was reading from paraqraph
Yes .
MR. JAHOPIN: Id like to offer Exhibit 2
L (ZA C JIA PEN z CC R, RM R .
(775) 323-5492
os:aa

(..
..
/.. )
23s
.
into evidence .
MR. LOGAR: Your Honor, 1 still object.
There fs an inadequate founclation based
upon the individ ua ts that have executed th e documenh
on behalf af the p roposed partses .
6
7
THE COURT :
9
10
A re you fam iliar w ith this
THE W ITNESS :
Well, 1 know th is is the
documen t that w e put together when w e started the

busines s ia 1998 .
ns:as
11
O the r than that , I fran kly don 't -- 1 --
12
T HE COURT :
13
Are you familiar with hhe document?
14
That 's what 1 mean .
THE W ITNESS :
16
M R . PEEK :
17
THE COU1kT :
Well, I signed it .
He sgned it , your Honor .

And does it app ear to b e a
THE WITN ESS :
To the be st of m y knowledge ,
your Honor .
ns:38
21
T HE COURT :
22
(Exhibit 2 was admitted into evidence a
23
It rs adm itted .
BY MR . JAKOP IN :
('
24
os:aa
t rue and cor rect c op y of that document?
19
20
Is it
a docum ent you 'v e seen before?
15
18
'
o5:a8
document , Mr . Trepp ?
-.-- -
Q.
The Purpo se and Business of the LLC
(775) 323-5492

(.'..'
6- )
236
2
A.
Yes .
Q.
What wa s your understanding o f tha h
certan softwaze comp ression techno logy ?
05:39
MR. LOGAR: Objection, your Honor.
MR. FLYHN: Object.
MR . LOGAR :
The language spea ks for itself .
10
can be shown that there 's any con fusion by any of the
11
term s u sed , the document speaks for itself and h is
12
opinion is irre leva nt and immaterial .
13
THE COU RT :
14
Go ahead .
15
16
'
r
,.
Do you see that?
t
'
z
re ferred to certain software com pression technology .
Paro l evidence ru le .
Unless it
. ,s ove rruled .
lt
BY M R . JA FO PIN :
Q.
:5:39
05:39
Can you an swer the question ?
17
T HE CO U R T :
Yes .
18
T HE WITHESS :
C learly; my und erstand ing o f
19
what -- and if th is is the proper question -- excu se
20
m e, I thin k I 1m answering w hat the que st ion is r but
21
I 'm not czystal c tear on it , b ut what I be lieved what
22
Denn is and I had agreed to do is b asically start a
23
business , use what he had to develop , w ith basica lly
24
m y cap ital , g iving him the ability to hire the
LtZA CHAPEN g CCR: RMR
(775) 323-5492
05:39

l,.w
1*e
app rop riate employuu's to develop , on an on-qoing
basis, the exploitation of technologies relating to
what he had done denzonstrations for m e ove r the prior
years .
Those dem onstrations included video
comp ression, aud io compression , patte rn recognition ,
and various and sunclry other things thah m y
expectatio n ce rtan ly was, w ith the rsght cap ital,
righ t peop le , w e w ould be ab le to deve lop ov er time .
10
THE COURT :
A11 right .
BY M R . JAKOPIN ;
12
Q.
Turn ing t,o paragraph 6 .5 .
13
A.
Yes .
14
Q.
Was the -- there 's a reference there to
the Time Devoted to M anag ement b y the manager .
16
0s:41
Was the or iginal manag er M r . Mon tgom ery?
17
A.
1 be lieve that was the case .
18
Q.
O kay .
So is it your unde rstand ing ,
19
acco rding 'no th is agreement , that he should devote
20
substantia Lly a1 l o f his time and attention and
21
efforts to the Business, cap ital ''Br'' and a ffairs ,
22
sm all ''A ,'' of the LLC during rea sonable bu siness
23
hours?
24
ns:4o
ns:4o
11
15
2 37
A. Yes
And not only tha t, 1 would certainly
(775) 323-5492
0s:u
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j
a--e
23f!
N.....z
f'
expect that if we were ma kjng a comm itment together
to b e partners in th is , I expect that he w ould
certainly be willjng to contribute h is tim e , effort s,
and energies into th is solely and exc lusively , by
v irtue o f the jact that he was go ing to own ha lf o f
the business .
7
8
formed , d id he own half of the busine ss?

A.
Abso lutely .
10
Q.
How much mone y d id you put int o the
12
13
14
15
16
A.
I think it was a m illion three hund red
thousand dollars .
Q.
Did Mr. Montgomery put in any money
in itially ?
A.
05:42
He m ade 2: contribution of his techno logy,
eve rything to date what he had creat ed fo r his
18
50 p ercent .
20
ob:41
com pany, initia lly , Mr . Trepp ?
17
19
A nd at the t ime that the bu siness was
11
Q.
os:4l
So , in theory , he got a m illion three in

stoc k va lu e, but he put no money in it .
21
M R . JAKO PIN :
Than k you .
22
T HE CLERK :
23
(Exhibit 3 was marked for identification .)
24
MR LOGA R : Counselr would you identify it
Exhib it 3 .
(775) 323-5192
os:42

'-v.
239
(vw
1
MR. JAHOPIN : T've had marked as Exhibit 3
the Contribu tion A greement by and between Intrepid
Technolog tes, LLC , and Dennis Montgom ery and grenda
Montgom ery a s the co-trustees o f the Montgomery
Fam ily T rust , and the contributor in Dennis
Mon tgom ery r dated and executed Sep tember 28th z 1998 .
BY M R . JA K3PIN :
Q.
Do you recognize this, M r . Trepp ?
10
A.
Ye s .
11
Q.
What is it?
12
A.
This is the deal that I re fe rred to b efore
as to what was -- Ilennis was contributing into the
14
pot for h is 50 percent interest in go ing forw ard w ith
15
the comp ang .
17
Q.
:5:43
Is th is a t rue and correct copy of this
agreeme nt?
18
A.
To the b est of m y know ledge .
19
Q.
A nd is that your signature --
20
A.
Yes, t is .
21
Q.
-- on p age l2?
22
A.
Yes .
23
24
05:42
0s:4a
13
16
for the reco rd : please .
M R . JAKO PIN :
os:43
1 '11 o ffe r Exhib it 3 into
evidence , vo ur H on o r .
(775) 323-5492

(.2 40
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. LOGAR: No objection .
THE COURT :
(Exhibit 3 was admitted into ev idence .)
BY M R . JA K3PIN :
Q.
05:44
Does hlt:; aqreem ent define what it was
that M r . M ontgom ery had contrib uted to Int repid
Technologies , LLC ?
A.
To Lhe best e f m y know ledge .
10
Q.
Okay .
11
12
j
'
Adm itted .
Do you recall if pa ragraph 1 .2 .1 is
referred to as C D No . 17
A.
I don 't rem ember specifica lly ev er
13
physical ly gett ing a CD , but clearly the
14
understa nding of --
15
being given was contributed to hhe company .
16
Q.
if there wa s a C Dz what we were
com pany started , any discussion betw een you and
18
M r . Montg ome ry that there wa s certa in so ftw are
19
relating to com p ression technology that he was
20
contribut ing , b ut there was othe r software re lating
21
to patent (sic) recognition technologies that he was
22
not contr ibuting?

A.
Ab solute ly .
24
Gs:44
W as there , ea rly on in the tim e that the
17
23
05:44
MR . FLYNN : Objection; leading .
L.'
.ZA Ci1A PEN, CCRz RMR
(775) 323-5492
:5:44
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...
M R . LOGAR :
MR. FLYNLI: And particularly, the whole
THE COURT :
Well, 1 think that the pa rol
evidence rule, one , our Gourt has mod ified the p arol
evidence rule p retty considerab ly in the la st four or
ftve years , and I hhink even be fore that , to a llow
people to ma ke exp Lanations about the ir understanding
o f the contracts and the negotiation s that they were
10
involved in to a1d the Court in understand ing and
11
interpret ing the agreem ent .
12
13
15
16
:s:4s
:5:45
1 think that the old , hard -and-fast paro l
evidence rule is dead in Nevada.
14
('
A nd parol evid ence .
thing is fraugh t w th parol ev idence which you can - -
241
I 'm so lry, you were going to say
some th ing ?
95:45
MR . FLYNN :
Your Honor, I th in k your
17
Hono r fs rationale is probab ly correct .
I don lt know
18
whether it's dead or not, but my objection is really
19
the following .
20
THE COURrr:
Go ahead .
:5:45
21
M R . FLYNN :
I th ink the -- g iv en the
22
natu re o f the fact that this is -- th is clause has --
23
thi s cont ract has an integration clause, the
24
exam inat ion sh ou ld b e extremely d irect w ith no
LFZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

!-*
/v
212
1
leading .
1 think Mr. Trepp should have the
respons ibi lity, withou t M r . Ja kop in 's he lp , to
explain thase th kntjs ; otherw ise , 1 thn k it would
indicate why the unde rlying rationale of the paro l
ev idence rule was trad it ionally a good ru le .
7
8
THE COURT :
W ell , I understand
that and I agree w ith the lead ing part of it .
I mean , 1 u sually r even in a trial y permit
10
a 1ot o f leading questions, because nine times out of
11
ten times they 're about issues that a re im po rtant ,
12
but if we 're talkng ab out a central is sue , 1 wou ld
13
a sk that you no t a sk leading question s about this
14
particu lar c lause or interp retation .
15
lf you want to ask him wha t he thin ks
16
about it or what he did or what h is thoughts w ere or
17
how he understands it , that 's fine , but 1et him tell
18
you what the an swe r is .
19
MR . JAKO PIN :
20
22
23
24
Fine .
05:46
05:46
We :ll do that , your
Honor .
05:46
21
A 11 right .
os:46
THE COU RT :
A 1l right .
BY MR . JA KO PIN :
Q.
With respect to the -- what 's refe rred to
as certain compression technology in this agreement ,
(775) 323-5492

(
2 43
...)
rw j
what w as your unde rstanding o f what was the
technology that was being contributed?
worked on tn the past , he had told me he was putting
togethe r i a a packitge , and it was something that we
cou ld sbar a on a go jng-fo rward base .
just compression technology, by any stretch of the
imagination .
He had given me demonstrations , as an
11
example, to whe re he too k the m ov ie Gunga Din and
12
basically , in front of me , showed m e how he could
13
colorize it by identifying a jacket on a person
14
running up the v alley ; the floor , the sky .
15
And then h e show ed m e -- th is w as to
16
interest m e in making an inve stm ent in the company
17
with him to 1et it grow over time .
18
as:47
It ce rtainly had -- it ce rtainly was not
10
Rasically, everyth nq that Dennis had
A.
05:17
05:47
So , b y showing me these d emonstrat ion s, it
19
was c lear ly show ing me h e had the ab ility to take
20
frame ''A '' ma ke fram e two out of it , and b asically do
21
his colorizat ion p rocess , an d the way he exp la ined
22
it , it wa s imp ossible to do it un less he wa s ab le to
23
identify specific p attern s in frame uA '' that were
24
identtcal in two .
L EZA C/G PEN, CCRS RMR
(775) 323-5492
n5:48

....
don 't know bow he did it, to be perfectly frank, but
ba sically he was ab le to , over a se ries o f frames ,
ov er a t ime frame , be able to identify p atterns in
e a c h o n e o f t h e f r am e s a nd t h en e o lo r iz e w h a t w a s a
black and white film into what then waa co lor .
o f the thing s that I saw , certainly, tha t I w as
in te rested in then ma king an investm ent in
12
13
os:48
T hat wou td have been a good e xample o f one
11
2 44
10
'
....;f
He could then assLgn from , you know -- I
conjunction with him on a going-forward basis.

Q.
o5:4a
We re there any other p roto type s that he
showed to you b efo re you made an investm ent?

A
The re were a number o f different things,
14
but they w ere a l1 thngs that were w ork in progre ss,
15
and I c learly understood , and we discussed that I w as
16
go ing to have to put a m illion , t<o m ill ion , three
17
m illion , :. substantia l am ount o f cap ital in this and
18
it was go sng to take us a m inimum of two to three
19
years to d ev elop this .
20
I mean , th is was a research and
21
development project, and I knew it was going to take
22
a long period of tim e and , frankly , I h ad sa id , ''Tt 's
23
not on ly go ing to take a 1ot of mone y; it 's going to
24
take more manpower than you could do it on your own
(775) 323-5492
ob:4a
Qs:49

j
J* ?
24b
.
C- z . - 1
2
3
4
5
6
I
''
'
and you bette r go f Lnd som e peop le to he lp you .''
Q.
When you then initially formed the
company , what was M r. Montgom ery 's ro le ?

A.
He was the -- we tl, 1 to tal ly relied on
him fo r d ay-to-day operations .
05:4a
He had made a11 the h ring de cisions r the
firing decision .
1 have no techn ical knowledge .
was , 1 would sa y, mo re so as an investo r , certainly ,
but I certa in ly had tremendously mo re bu sine ss
10
exp erience and knowledge than Dennis did in running a
11
business, and I wou ld try to help him on an overview
12
bass , but I had no wav o f help ing him o n a daily
13
basis w itb the emp loyees , the programmers , or
14
an ything o f that klk .
15
MR . JAKO PIN :
16
T HE COURT :
Okay .
Thank you .
o5:5n
Just fo r p lann ing pu rposes , at
17
three o lclock we are go ing to sw itch reporters , so
18
we 'll take a recess at that time .
19
MR . JAKO PIN :
20
THE COUET :
21
MR . JA KOPIN :
22
(Exhibit 4 was marked for identification.)
23
MR . JA KCPIN :
24
0::49
O kay, you r Bono r .
Did you mar k som eth ing else?

I can , your Hon or .
I m arked as Exh ibit 4 an
Am ended and Restated Operating A greement , dated
(775) 323-5492
ns:50
p- .)
January 1, 1999 .
BY MR . JA KO P IN :
Q.
Do you recoqnize that, M r . Trepp ?
A.
Yes .
Q.
ls Lhis a true and orig ina l cop y o f this
A.
Yes .
12
f
s
E clearly signed it ,
correct .
05:sl
BY M R . JA FO PIN :
Q.
Refe rring to page 23, wh ich is paragraph
13
6.5 -- actually, where it says Time Devoted to
14
M anagem ent .
15
A.
Yes .
16
Q.
Do you see the same c lause that had been
osisl
17
in the previous ag reement where now M r . Montgomery is
18
the ch ief techno logy o fficer?
19
m an age r; he 's been given the title ch ief te chnology
20
o fficer , where he shall devote sub stantia lly a11 of
21
his fu ll tim e and attention and ef forts to th e
22
Business, cap ital ''B '' again , and a ffairs , sm all ''A ''
23
o f the LLC du ring reasonab le b usiness hou rs ?
24
ns:bn
T o the best o f my knowledge , that 's
10
11
246
Amended and Re stated Operating Ag reem ent ?
f..<
A.
He 's no longer the
Yes .
(775) 323-5492
n5:s2
t. ..
'
.. .v-
was it your understanding that that is what he was
doing?
A.
Ab solutely .
Q.
Was Mr . Montgomery paid to do those
8
9
k'
During the pe rfo rmance of th is agreement ,
Q.
247
:5:52
activit ies du ring that pe riod ?

A.
O h w o f co ur s e .
T HE CLERK :
Your Honoz , that Exhib it 4 was
not form ally admitted yet .
10
MR . LOGAR :
It wasn 't even o ffe red .
11
THE COURT :
Tt wasn 't offered .
12
M R . JAKO PIN :
13
Can I have Exhibit 4 offered into
05:52
I apolog ize .
11
evidence , your Honor?
15
THE COURT :
16
Any objection?
17
M R . FLYNN :
No , your Honor .
18
THE COURT :
It 's adm itted .
19
(Exhibit 4 was admitted into evidence .)
20
(Exhibit 5 was marked for identificatfon.)
21
MR . JAKO PIN :
They d id offer it .
Ma rked a s Exh ib it 5 , an
22
Am ended and Restated Operating A greement , dated
23
November 1st , 2001 .
24
BY MR . JAKOPTN :
(775) 323-5492
n51s3
0::s3

248
.. .-,
Q.
Do you recognize this, Mr . Trepp ?
A.
Yes .
Q.
13 th s a true and original copy o f this
exhib it?
A.
Yes , to the best o f my knowledge .
6
7
MR . JAKOl?IN :
I 'd like to offer Exhib it 5
MR. FLYMN : No objectlon.
THE COtJR'r :
11
lt 's adm itted .
(Exhlbit 5 was admitted into evidenee .)
Ds:53
BY MR . JAKOPIN :
12
Q.
13
6 -5 r Mr . Trepp .
14
A.
What page is that?
15
Q.
Th is is paqe 25 .
16
A.
O kay .
17
Q.
The pa ragraph is referred to as T im e
18
os:53
into evidence .
10
Refe rr tng again to what is in paragraph
nb:sa
Dev oted to Management .
19
t,
.--y'm.-j-
Do you see that ?
20
A.
Yes .
ns:54
21
Q.
Do you see the same clause that says that
22
M r . Montgom ery sha ll devote substantially al1 of his
23
full tim e and a ttention and effo rts to the Business'
24
capital ''BJ ' and affairs, small ''A,'' of the LLC
LIZA ('
.*
.HAPENr CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492

z 4:
...
.eq
!.
1
(
A.
Y e s , I d tn.
Q.
And dicl he do that during the term of th is
agreem ent ?
A.
Yes , he did .
Q.
And was he paid for that?
A.
Ab so lute ly .
Q.
And were these payments for the various
different Operat ing A greem ents, those were in

add ition to the percentage ownership that he had in
11
the com pan y?

A.
MR . JA KO PIN :
MR . FLYNN :
Your Honor : aga in , I 'd eauhion
THE CO URT :
T ry not to ask so many lead ing
18
questions when we get down to the questions that are
19
important and central to the case .
20
MR . JA KO PIN ;
21
22
23
24
05:54
on a l1 the leading .
17
Nothing further with th is
exhibit rzght now .
15
16
0s:s4
That is correct .
13
14
o5:s4
10
12
('
d u r i.n g r e a so n ab l.e 13u s ine s s ho u r s?
I will do that z your Honor .
BY MR . JA KOP IN :
Q.
Do you see in these ag reem ents that
M r . Montgom ery wa s what w aa refe rred to as CTO ?

A.
Ye s .
I,1ZA CHAPFN , CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
05:55

C-
Q.
W hat were his responsibility as CTO ?
A.
He was rc,sponsible for running the
250
day-to-day busjness as far as the development of a11
of our t echnology , from the start th rough a couple o f
wee ks ago e overseeing the empkoye es , programmers that
wo rked in the company .
Q.
c o r r ec t ?
A.
That is correct .
10
Q.
What we re his responsibilities as part of
12
A.
The re were th ree people on the m anagem ent
comm ittee , and that g roup was sup posed to be -- I
14
w ou td eal l it like an executive comm ittee Lo
15
basically determ ine what the overv iew or corpo rate
16
plans for what the company w ould do on a
17
going-fo rwa rd b as ks .
Q.
19
Was he paid a salary a s a CTO ?
A.
He was pa id a salary from day one .
21
Q.
Do you remember what his most recent
23
24
05:s5
Were you paid a salary --
20
22
c5:5s
the m ana gement comm ittee?
13
18
os:ss
He was a lso on the managem ent comm ittee #
11
k
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:
sala ry w as ?
A.
$300,000 .
MR . FLYNN :
Can we have a time frame , your
(775) 323-5492
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251
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,
(*K*
Ho n o r ?
He was paid $300,000 the
last three yea rs he was employed there ; eac h yea r .
HY MR . JA FO PIN :
Q.
Did you have an understanding of alk o f
the va rious eng ineers who had been hired at eT repptd
and what they d sd ?
8
9
10
11
A.
I had Dennis alm ost -- I h ad Denn is -- we
had lunch ev ery day for almost seven years .
We
d iscussed eve ryth jng .
05:57
W hen 1 say eve rything, I w ou ld ask an
aw ful 1o L of questlons about the technica l sides of
13
the business to determ ine what else there wa s 1 could
14
do to he lp in the process .
If h e needed either m ore cap ital or mo re
16
employees or more equipm ent or whateve r th at would
17
be, that would be the genera l gist of the
18
conv ersation .
19
05:s6
Up until recently ?
12
15
THE wlqayzss:
He to ld m e when he hired peop le .
He told
20
me when he fired p eop le .
I frankly nev er got into
21
in-depth conversations as to who he would h ir e and
22
why ; it w ou ld generally b e, f'W e 're hiring this person
23
for hardware developm ent ,'' or, ''We need mo re prog ram s
24
to do software developmentr'' or something.
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(775) 323-5492
05:57

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Genera Lly speakng , that would b e the

conversat ion .
3
4
5
6
But we had lunch eve ry day .
knew exact ly - - 1 -- we sha red in form ation every da y .
Q.
On the b usness side , what did you
A.
We ll, clearly the cap ital to , A , start the
bu siness; B , cont ributed capital when the time fram e
and the am ount of money that Denn is exp la ined to m e

he though l we needed to dev elop th e b usiness .
to th e orig inal investors and as k for a capital ca ll
13
to generate more money to operate the business.
14
A t some point , 1 got so concerned that
15
Denn is was gong to get diluted d own because he
16
could n 't a fford to p ut m ore money in the bu sin ess, I
17
then chose , throug h one of m y own pe rsonal entities,
18
to sta rt lending m illion s of dollars into th e
19
business to keep the business go ing u ntil we cou ld
20
m ake m oney .
21
m illions and m il lions of dollars .

2 004 was the first year we made a little
money .
gszs:
o5:s8
The company lost m oney from '99 to 2003,
23
24
ns:5a
We made a decksion that we would go back
12
22
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contr ibute ?
11
1 m ean , we
10
'
(7V5) 323-5492
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And 2 005, we made a little m ore money .
THF COURT : For the record, just so we
have it ot record , 1 marked the affid av ih that was
subm itted a s Exh ilait 6 ; it 's not adm itted b ut it 's
marked ancl so the next exh ibit w ill b e Exhibit 7 .
(Exhib it 6 was marked fo r iden tification .)
MR . PEEK :
10
In fac t, actually, your Hono r,
O r did you go ahead and adm it it as per

our earlie r discussion ?
11
THE CO URT :
n5:b9
To me , you know , we 've got a1l
12
kind s of m aterial th at 's bee n subm itted here in aid
13
in opposition to this injunction and to this process
14
that 's he arsay, that 's not b een through the --
15
MR . PEEK :
16
THE COURT :
17
We don 't have an y affidavits .

-- process, and so T 'm going
MR . FLYHN :
You r Honor , i s Exhibit 6 --
that fs Exhib it A ?
20
MR . JAKOPIN :
21
THE CO URT :
N o , Exhib it 6 is the affidavit
23
M R . FLYNN :
Oh , yeah .
24
THE COURT: -- fellow from the Air Force.
22
05:59
to adm it Exhib it 6 .
18
19
05:59
I wou ld offe r Kxh ibit 6.
25'
.
5
No r it 's not .
of the --
LIZA CBAPEN, CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
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M R . F LYHN :
A nd s .
in ce you lre now admi tting it, your
So that 's been adm tted .
Honor, 1 would have to object.
be fore because it was never actually offered
at th is junction r f '11 ob ject..
THE COURT :
1 was reserving it
A 11 right .
but now
06:0:1
Well , it 's
adm itted .
(Exhibjt 6 was admitted into evidence.)
THE COU RT :
10
And Exh ibt 7 is Exhib it A to
the Amend ed A greem ent ; is that righ t?
11
MR . JA KO PIN :
12
(Exltibit 7 was marked for identification.)
13
MR. FLYNN : And I -- we object without
14
foundat ion , your Hono r .
THE COU RT :
To Exhib it 72
16
MR . FLYNN :
Y eah , until w e get som e
THE COURT :
A l1 right .
B Y MR . JARO PTN :
20
Q.
Mr . Trepp , do you recognize Exhib it A ?
21
A.
Yes .
22
Q.
What is it?
23
A.
It 's the people that own the eT reppid
24
06:00
foundation .
18
19
n6:oo
Yes, it is .
15
17
t
.
Technologe s, cLc .
L EZA CHAPEN , CCR , RMR
(775) 323-5492
06:00

e
1
(
Q.
A greem ent as updaled as of March 1st, 2003?

A.
Ye s .
MR . JAKOPIN :
1'd like to o ffer Zxhibit A
THE CLLRK :
M R . JAKO PIN :
MR . FLYNN :
T hat 's Exhib it 7 .
I'm sorry, Exh ibit 7 .
Your Honor, m ay 1 h ave a
m oment?
n6:ol
11
THE COURT :
12
13
MR. FLYNN: We 're goinq to object, your
14
Yes .
Hono r .
15
MR . PEEK :
16
MR. FLYNN: Webre going to object, your
17
I 'm sorry?
n6:01
Hono r .
18
THE COURT :
On the grounds?
19
MR . FLYNN :
Mr . Montgom ery was a partner ;
20
21
06:00
into evidence .
10
255
ls th is a true and correct copy of the
Exhibit A Lo the Am ended and Restated Op erating
t
&
'w'J
fifty-fifty to start with .
06:01
Over his request, he wa s neve r given
22
aecess to any books and record s, if there are any
23
b oo ks and record s .
24
m eetings , there were never corporate proto co ls
There were never any corpo rate
(775) 323-5492

256
A
w
y-,
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..
complied w ith .
A11 of the records were yn us . zsopp js
back poc ke t .
v irtua lly noth jng among th corporate reco rd .
So to sub stantiate w hat is : in effect , a
com pilation , we would need ho look at the underly ing
docum ents .
t
'
M r . Montgom ery w as qiven and shown
n6:o1
So it m ay become icre levant , but at this
juncture, I bave to objech beeause we believe it's
10
basically a com pilation from underlying docum ents
11
which we b elieve are not go ing to be kep t ln
12
accordance with norma l and standard accounting
13
practices.
14
M R . JAKO PIN :
15
THE COURT :
Your Hono r --
Well, 1 th in k that 's an
16
objection that we night have to deal with down the
17
road b ut for the pu rp ose o f this hea ring , I 'm go ing
18
to admit Kxhib it 7 .
19
MR . JAKO PIH :
20
(Exhibit 7 was admitted into evidence.)
21
BY M R . JA KOPIN ;
22
Q.
06:01
06:02
Th an k you .
As of March 3rd -- as of March 1st, 2003,
23
is this a t rue and co rrect list o f a11 the various
24
investor s in In trepid Techno logie s, LLC ?
LIZA CHAPELIr CCR, RMR
(775) 323-5492
06:2
'

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A.
Yes, it. is .
Q.
Are there any additional investors in
eT reppid since th at Lime?
A.
MR . JA KO l?IN :
That 's al1 1 have with re spect to
Thank you .
THE COURT :
reporte r .
(Discuss Lon off the reco rd .)
11
M R . JAKOPIN :
Honor .
We bre at three o 'cloc ky you r
THE COURT : Well, a11 I -- ordinarilye I

w o u ld n 't - -
15
This doesn 't need to be on the record .
16
17
THE COURT :
18
06:02
Yo u sa id that we needed to --
13
14
06:02
We lz, I haven 't seen the cou rt
10
12
Okay .
Exh ibit 7 .
No .
A l1 right .
o6roa
Is this a good
tim e?
19
MR . JAKOPIN :
20
THE COURT :
This is fine .
Let s take -- we ll take --
21
let 's giv e her enough t im e, give you gu ys enough
22
tim e ; we 'll ta ke until 25 after .
23
Ma ke it 20 a fter .
24
MR. PEEK: Thank you, your Honor.
L IZA CHAPEN, CCR# RMR
(775) 323-5492
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W e '1 l b e i.n re c e s s
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(Re (;es :5 ta ker.)
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(775) 323-5492
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Jud i c i a 1 D i st ri c:t C ou rt o f the St a t e o f N e va da r in
a nd fo r t h e C ou n t y o f Wa sho e , do h e r eb y ce rt i fy :
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uuch repo r te r , 1 wa s p re sen t in
Depa r tme n t N o . 9 ()f t h e abov e c o u rt on s a id da t e ,
t ime and h ou r , and I then and the r e t oo k v e rbat im
10
st e no t y p e n o t.e s o f th e p ro ce e d i ng s h ad a nd t es t im on y
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12
T h a t. t11e fo re go i ng t r an sc r ip t i s a fu l l ,
13
true and correct transcription of my said stenotype
14
notes , so taken as a foresaid .
15
tran scrip t. was taken d own unde r m y direct ion and
16
cont ro l, and to the best o f my know ledge , skill and
17
ability .
18
19
DATED: At Reno,
That the fo rego ing
Nevada , ths
2 )5$-day
, 2006 .
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139719.14021,
140:13,:40:16,
140:17,140223,
142:12,142:13,
142:21.143:6,
143:16.145:8.
145:23.145:24,
146:3.14625,146:11*
147:13,147.17
149:51149:7 150:9
150:14,150:21
151:2I151(9,152:16,
152:21I152:22,
154:11.165:20
169:
22,170:11I
170L12,178:17.
1Z8:181178:19
178:241179:1 1Z9:3,
1Z9:6,179:8 179:10
179:15,179:1E5I
182.13,183:2' 183:6'
1835181183:21,
185:4,185:7' 185:11I
186:5,186:8,186:11,
186:14 186:18
1tV t1Z,188:4 188:7,
188:1.1sa:23,
189:1'189:11,
1B9:141189:191
189:24.190:9,
190:12,19o:1s
192:1,193:12.
195:1n,196.s,
196:12,197:
4197:8
197:101 197:11.
197:12,197:1s,
197:20'198.4'
198:10,198:12
198:20.19.5:2,,
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zjarjzl'zal
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141:21,141:
22,
141:23,151:20
codecsl
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code.
s(s:
q-2a:2,
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61:13,62:4,66:21.
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conjunction(21-
com plianceI1)ez:22
com plied!21-6:111
2f$6:1
98:22I99:201105:3,
106:4.106:13,
106:16,106:17.
107:2.109:11,
117:24 244:10
connectpl-64:6,
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connected(4I-
109116,109:18,
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22
110:23,11327,
113:10,113120,
114:23 22z:z
connection(2I-
114:3.114:11,
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47:15 $7:19. 50:22,
z7:2 7::7, z7:21,
165:13 199.24.
a2tjxjz
az:lz 126:11
164:
21 180:2 190:9
190:12.200:8,
200:11 200:14
zc4:18I 204:20,
209:10 210:12.
210:20,212:10.
212:15.212:21.
213;1, 214:7, 215 12.
218:3I 218:9, 218:11I
gar:s
compressingl118'j,:4
com pression1681j2:24I .J4:1a,z4:j6,
76:17 77:3,86:51
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8.,
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88:1' 88:13, 88:16.
88:22, 88:23I 89:2.
89:s 89:14. 90:41
90:14.94:3.94.6I
94:10I 94:20I95:3s
95.4. 96:2. 96:17,
96:24,99:4,99:6,
99:10, 99:14.99:161
99:21,99:24.100.71
100:13, 130:14,
133'4I140:6I140'8,
14629I 163:11, 164:2,
colleotivelytll109:8
collectively(:I55:9,55:19,56:20,
59:10159:24,60:5.
152:21,230:23
cellege(1j-227:11
Golorlll-244:6
colorizationi$1243:21
coloriz.eI
zI-243:13,
(
'
complexI11-63'10
1Z0:17,186:2.2.
193:9.193:13.195:1,
coding (2Q1-58:16,
58:1/,60:
6185:4.
85:20.86:20.87:7,
87:21.87224,88:12,
88:16,88:22,89:1,
89:6)9073,102217,
178212,178:13,
182:14,196:10
collectivepl54:21,82:13,145:14
zz.2), :2.13.87:14i
223:14,223:15,
223:21.227:17,
228:61 228:21,229:3.
230:8. 233:3' 238:11.
239:15.240:15.
240:17, 243:16.
245:3,249:11,250:6,
250:16, 252:21
com lhany'spl100218,223:9, 223:11
Compan#s($I-
244:5
com bination Iq 156:23,160:101
160:12.179:11,
179:13,179:16
com bine(21140:15,182:17
combinest1I-
176:16
com partm entpl153:14
com partmentasized
(1l-17:2
oom pilationrzl256:
6,256:10
com pileI4l-37'20.
147:
24
56:15,57:9.153:6
coming1121-25:171
38:
4,38:9,42:21.
43:1B,48:5,70:10,
70:11.112:10,
112:12,124:
7,202:17
Gom mand (
3l39:22.40:13.146:24
commandsI2I222:
5,222:9
com ments(1)-
com plled(7I-27:10,
28:10,56:22,139:
6,
139:21,146:21209:2
com pilerpl146:23,147:16
compilesI3)-147:3,
147:5, 208:24
compilingpl88::0, 146:17,208:23
com plainp)-51:20,
36:22
1Z6:
3,176:9'195:14.
141:12.170:16,
166:22,166:24,
complained(21-
238.1
com rl,itteet4l2s0:'?.:!s0:11,
250:13,250:14
com nlon(11-222:24
com m unications(11
-2:5.8
com paniesI2I222:21. 223:6
com rlanylzl-1:9,
1z6:18
com pany(6$118:12 26:8' 26:14,
26:18127 28:22
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19s:s:1ss:8?224:12
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commitmentI1l.
51.23.52'16
s:4 89:11 89:18,

90.14 91211,91:12,
91:19 91:24.92210,
96217 96:22.96:23,
97:13.98:21I101:9,
101:12 102:22
102:24.1:3:23,
104:3 105:11.
105:22.106.21,
106:24.107'5,
107:21#115:11I
116:2,116:14.
116:24,119:141
119:16 140:4
.
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53.4.53 5
com pletelq -20 10.
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146 3.165'21
com pleted(3134.20,352,216.10
com pletely!s13t':13,40'21,118:19.
119.11,121:16
componentsa -
compressedt11-
164.10I164:14.
1*4:20.164:24,
1s5:14.167:11,
206:15.206:171
206:20,207:4,207:7,
207:12,228:8,
230:18.236:1,236:51
237.
6,240:191
242:
24.243:8
compressiono pe
pl-74:13,76:17,77:3
compressorl
sl140:13,141:21,
141:231145:18,148:6
Computeq,)-56:10
computer(:
151-24:2.
24:
4.25:15140:14,
52:
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71:
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200:20.200.21.
20::22,205:6.205.8,
205:16.205219,
205.231206:3,208:2,
208:4,208:6.208:8.
221:8.221:19
Gornputers(421Z0:18,89:15,90'21
114:15,115:41
115:11,115:12,
115:15,115:21,
116:2,116.6.116:24.
120.23,121:2,121:3.
121X,122:181124:3,
166:17,211:19,220:8
Com puterstzl208:31210:9
Gonceptl21-177:6.
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GoncernI5I-16:23,
126:24,129:6,
135:13,171:17
Concerned I31124:24,211:171
252:14
Goncerrls(1l-19:17
GonclusionI1136:13
Condititm sI
1I230:20
conducttxl-t4:ls,
20:8.45:8,80:8
conductedI1118:17
confer(2I-10:1.
10:8
conferences!11-
conform I11-108:10
confrontedI1I132:7
confused(1)-194:4
confusing(2I90:18 91E3
confusion(11236:10
Congratulationslll202:1
consecutively(11z:!9:14
COnSidera - 52:22.
jz.;L2g 1(jr)::$
GOnSideralgy(1).
z4j:6
consjdored(1j. 8:14
constantjy(jj.
65:12
consulo ntI11jK i4
consulted!11-99:2
consulting (21206:1,206:2
consum ingl1)217:18
contactldll-113:3
127:
24,130:
7,130:'
21
contactedlq 112:15,112:j8,
112:23, 113:2,219:6
containpl- 19:12
contained(a)144:23, 154:17
containerlll163:18
containers!s)- :3:6,
83:18. 113:
8.114:1,
1s6:21
10:6
conferencingI1110:21
confidenta 182:11,196:8,196:9
confi
dentialI2I18:20,21:16
confi
dentiality(3114:20,18:1'19:14
confi
ding!1l-24:19
configured(1J-
containsI2I-37:
5,
j1():6
contempt(1)136:10
contentts1- 16:1.
17:11. 2712z,j5z:z:
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contents(9I- 16:7,
91:2:
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continueI41-76:
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convertsI11-147'6
96:12 128:1 144.1ts

Continuedlal-3.11
214:4
continued(1)-26:12
continuing(2156:1.216:19
continuously(j1180:19
contractllal-ss:10,
65:18.65:20,66:6,
66.14.66:19.68:3,
68:5.68:16,68:20,
82:20182:22.103:11,
128:11 132:11
154:7.166:81241:23
contractor(1I-26:3
contractors(1j84:
20
contracts(1zI66:21,79:16.101:2,
103:9$104:13,
104:
20.115:8,133:s,
138:3,199:18,200:2,
2K :3,241:9
contributelzl238:3.252:
6
contributedlsl230:18,240:z.
convicted (aJ-79'8.
79:15 i?(1.5
convtition(1I-81:1
convitlced I11136:17
copietl(2l-32223
37:7
copiesllaj-34:1.
34:4 34 '
?'34:9
34:20 34.23 68:14
68:17,108:10
108.11 142:24
156:17 166:8
copy(:h11-34:4
34:17,117:7,117:12
118:15 126:2 15::6
158:7 159:5 159:19
162:11 223:14
229:5 230:4 232:2
232:7.235:18,
239:16.246:5,248.3
255:1
copyrightlll184:18
cordI1I-27:9
corepl-12:1z.
12:18 14:z
corelzi-1zs:22,
z4arls.243.2,2s2:8
17s.23
contributinga 239::3,240:2t),
240:22
contributionta!12:23. 14:5.164:s
164:9 1e4:1s.
228:19 230:21 239:
3
K ntributionr,,238:16
contributorpl2a9:6
controllq -23:13,
t2z:1e 122:1a,
219:7' 211:
4' 259:16
controlsz - zl:17,
210:21
conversationl,a 53:24 s4:12 93:s
9z:10, 9z:21, 120:2:,
124:!2' 126:9'
corporatesl2s0:1s. 2ss:23
255:24 256:4
correctlsn-13:22,
25:23 2::3 27.77
2a.s s4 5 ss:l3
ss:lz z3:14 74:17
za,2,i,:s,(),s4,:,.
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24' 82:2,
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178:17,
C@nverteda -
181:17, 229:6,257:8
136:17.136:19,
123.
5,122:21'
259:8
137:
2'138:11'
137.13 137:19
13824 139.16
13921,146:21.
14/'111147:15
148'4 155.13
160 18 160:19
161.2I161220.
163.12,177:16.
185 l3
CorrectionalI,l205'8
Gorrelates(1)I64'14
correspondingI1)15225
correspondsil1140:1
corrupt(1I-97:6
costlytll-223:15
Counsellaj-74:19,
79 18 106:6 114:17
138:5,204:13
222.19,238:24
counsel(12,-5:91
5:16 8.9 8:20 8.21
9.8.18:1s,21:12
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232:11
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countll)-8:21
country(11-34:20
Courtlaagl-1'5. 5:4,
5 19 5'21 6:12 6.23
7.18 8:5 8:15 8:18
9'6 9:14 9:1I 10:2
10:12 10:15 11:4
1117 11:20 11:24
12:2 1224 12:6
12:10 12:12 12:18
12:24 13:14 13:19
13:23 13:24 14:2
14:14 14:22 15r1.
15:3 15:5 15r7 15:8
15:14,15119I:5:21,
17.6,17:12,17:17
17:21,17:23,18:13
18:20 18:22 19:7
19:9 20:6 20:9
20212,20:20,21:1I
21:5,21:8,21:10,
22:18,23:2,23:4,
23:1.23:10,23:15,
23:17,23:20,24:10
24:20,25:1.25:6,
35:15,35:19,35:241
36:3.36:7.36:14.
42:7.42:11.45:
6,
45:14,46:9.46:12,
52:9,52:11,s2:18.
53:20.55:14,57:3,
63:21,63:22.65:4.
66:16,67:5,67:8,
6T:11,67:14,69:7,
138.13 142.16
144:1 144:12
146:13 151:4
151:13 151:16
152:15 152:19
152:23 153:2 153:5
153:7 153:10
153:16 154:51
154:10 154:15
154:22 160:5
162:21.162:23,
163:3 167:18
167:20 167:23
168:2 168:5 169:8
169:10,169:12
169:23 170:1 170:5
170:9 170:15
170218,1702
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171:2.171:6 171:14
171:17,172:4,172:9,
172:14,172:19,
173:
6 173:8 173:15
173:17.173:21,
174:2,174:6,174:9,
174:19 175:8 1N :3
178:7 181216
183:13,183:231
184:7.14:11,
189:21,190:21,
192:15,198:24,
199:2,201:13
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counwa -J:s.
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69:11,69:14,69:18,
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197:19' 198:8, 201:6,
201:23 218:19 250:4
couplel
a)-ss:a,
s6:11
courselsl.1a:4.
as:17. 122:17,
212:17 247:7
69:22.73:18,73:22.
?5:4.79:11,79:17.
79:23,80:11,80:13.
8o,li'.so,22,a2,1o,
89:19.89:23,90:21
90:24,92:17.92:19.
92:21.92:23,93:3,
10Z:12,107:15'
107:18.1C*:2,108:5,
108:Z,108:14,
11c:22.11z:16'
121:5,124:
22,125:1
125:9,125:11,
125:13,125:14.
126:6,126:
8,127:10,
127:17,127:19,
202:24.203:23
214:5,204:16,
2% :21,204:23,
zoz,co,2c8,1,
20a:12 209:14.
209218,209:20'
211:15 21211.212:4.
213:8 213:10l
214:23,216:18,
216:21.218:18,
z22215'224:,.225:7.
225:10 225:14
225:18,225:
23,
226:1 226:3 226:6,
226:9,226:14'
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132:13.132:18.
133:
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231:15,232:4,232:9,
232:12,232:15.
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L IZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR
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247:15,24-J:181
248:9,249:17,25312.
253:11,253:16.
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254:6,254:9.254:15,
254:18.255:11
255:18,256:15,
257:8,257:13.
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CourtsI1I-63:19
courtrtm m (111*
12:15,14:13,15:23,
1829.21:15,21:181
24:9,172:17,209:24,
220:4,220:6
covering(1)-17:10
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create(111-57:11,
58:5:58:24.59;10I
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21,14923,
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created112;-56:10,
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148:18,158:18,
169:21.195:1,
195:17.199:81
199:11.238:17
ce ate.sI4I-139:22,
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creatiag l
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creation ($1-76:3
crim inal(1)-129:22
critlcal(1j-135:16
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3:12,53:20153:22,
192:17,218:21
CTOSSI
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CrO rrexam ination
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cross-exam ination
01-80:23
cross-exam iningltl
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crystalt1I-236:21
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curios.ity(Ij-153'8
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ET V DM State # 644-19 & 20 - Feb 7 2006 Transcript Vol 1

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Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 1 of 222

M ONTGOM ERY v.ETREPPID,DEPT 0F DEFENSE

(VOLUM E lOF I1),IN 2NDJ'UDICJM DISTRICT COURT

-- ... ... ..... ..

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 2 of 222

SEC()ND JUDTClA, D!S,PRIC% COUR1, (.)E, st,jjs svp,,yy, oy, uuvsops

XN() F()R 'l'HE C0UH'

Tuesday , February 7, 2006

RENO , N EVA LIA

LIZA CHAPEN , RMR, NV CCR #93

California CSR #2065

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 3 of 222

HA L R , LA lE ; PF E K , L)F,N li1s O N & HO WA R D

P IL l,S13(JR Y W 1N T H RO P 3$H A W P1T T M A H

;?4 7 5 i!a n o ve r J!t 17ee t

ikO MAL D J . LOGA R , ElSQ U 1R E

LIZA CHAPFN, CCR, RMR

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 4 of 222

IjJ-T.FR6;ShlS FOR T H K PluJLh141E''

LIZA CHAPEN , CCR, RMR

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 5 of 222

LIZA CHAPEN, CCR: RMR

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 6 of 222

REN O , N KVA DA , i13u e F.

1'H E C()U R'

Plea s(? i)e seated .

Pre lim i.nary InjuIRc1.ion .

You r Hon or r i f i t p lea s e the

C o u rt , I 'm Ro n a ld L o ga r rep r e s ent ing t h e De fe nda n t .

LIZA CHAPEN, CCR, RMR

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 7 of 222

pro hac vice has been made .

Certificate of Gocd Standing to the State Bar of

The State Bar of Nevada has issued its

lt wa s over-nighted yeste rda y to my

It sho uld be received by Federal Exp ress

about 10 :00 or 10 :30 th is m orn ing: h avinq complied

with the Supreme Court rule as to adm ission , and we

a s k t ha t M r . F'A y n 11 be pe rmi 1.te d t o a p (7e a r in th is

objection basecl o11 t14at reJ)resentation that it is

accep t Mr . Logar 's repre sentation as an o fficer of

So 1 certainly -- although I 've not seen

the p ro hac v ice application , l expect the Bar to do

that will be fine. We'1l allow that.

L1ZA CiIAPFIN, CCR, RMR

Case 3:06-cv-00056-PMP-VPC Document 644-19 Filed 05/28/08 Page 8 of 222

good stancikng o f P()th Lhe Massachustts and the State

He has mcde application to the State Bar

o f Hev ada fo r admission and app rova l p ro hac vice .

His Cer tificate of Good Standing w as sen t to the

State Bar 's office in Las Vegas yeste rday b y the

It 's expected that the State Rar o f

Massachusetts wi . l send the Certificate of Good

Las Vegas office will issue its approval and we

expect that w ithsn the n ext tw o days .

The de lay on Mr . St i llman is due to the

fa c t t h at M r . Stlllman p rov ided with his app lication

Court in the State of California ; however

was b eyond 30 days ' tme o f issuance from the date of

app lication , the S tahe Bar sa id they needed something

more current , so that is the --

Your Honor, absent the app roval

by th e State Har , E would object to his admission