Broussard Depo

1
1 24TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT
2 FOR THE PARISH OF JEFFERSON
3 STATE OF LOUISIANA
5 NO. 624-459 DIVISION "I"
7 CHICAGO PROPERTY INTERESTS, L.L.C.

AND ZOE ALDIGE, INDIVIDUALLY AND ON BEHALF OF
8 THOSE SIMILARLY SITUATED
9 VERSUS
10 AARON BROUSSARD PERSONALLY AND IN HIS CAPACITY

AS PRESIDENT OF JEFFERSON PARISH AND JEFFERSON
11 PARISH
12 CONSOLIDATED WITH
13 CASE NO. 624-778(LEVY), 625-145(LOGA),
14 626-415(KACZMAREK), 625-988(SCHMIDT),
15 635-539(BROWN), AND 635-883(MENARD)
16
17
18 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF AARON BROUSSARD,
19 given in the above-entitled cause, pursuant to
20 the following stipulation, before Sandra P.
21 DiFebbo, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and
22 for the State of Louisiana, at the Law Offices
23 of Burglass & Tankersley, 5213 Airline Drive,
24 Metairie, Louisiana, on the 28th of November,
25 2007, at 9:11 am.

2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 PLAINTIFFS' MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE:
3 JACOBS & SARRAT

BY: DARLEEN M. JACOBS,
4 ATTORNEY AT LAW
823 St. Louis Street
5 New Orleans, Louisiana 70112
6
RICHARD MARTIN,
7 ATTORNEY AT LAW
20 Versailles Boulevard
8 New Orleans, Louisiana 70125
9
LAW OFFICE OF ROBERT J. CALUDA
10 BY: THOMAS G. ROBBINS,
ATTORNEY AT LAW
11 310 Rue St. Ann
Metairie, Louisiana 70005
12
13 PLAINTIFFS' LIASON COUNSEL and COUNSEL FOR

CHICAGO PROPERTY INTERESTS and ZOE ALDIGE:
14
15 MURPHY, ROGERS, SLOSS & GAMBEL

BY: E. CARROLL ROGERS,
16 ATTORNEY AT LAW
701 Poydras Street
17 400 One Shell Square
New Orleans, Louisiana 70139
18
19 DEFENDANTS, AARON BROUSSARD AND THE PARISH OF

JEFFERSON:
20
21 BURGLASS & TANKERSLEY

BY: DENNIS PHAYER,
22 ATTORNEY AT LAW -and-
BRUCE BURGLASS,
23 ATTORNEY AT LAW
5213 Airline Drive
24 Metairie, Louisiana 70001-5602
25
3
1 APPEARANCES CONT'D:
2
DEFENDANT, NATIONAL UNION FIRE INSURANCE
3 COMPANY, PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA:
4 LEAKE & ANDERSSON

BY: KAREN DICKE,
5 ATTORNEY AT LAW
1100 Poydras Street
6 1700 Energy Centre
New Orleans, Louisiana 70163-1701
7
8 DEFENDANT, AMERICAN ALTERNATIVE INSURANCE

CORPORATION:
9
SIMON, PERAGINE, SMITH & REDFEARN
10 BY: DAVID F. BIENVENU,
ATTORNEY AT LAW -and-
11 JOSH HUDSON, ATTORNEY AT LAW
1100 Poydras Street
12 30th Floor, Energy Centre
New Orleans, Louisiana 70163-3000
13
14
15 Videograppher: Greg Cassen, Depo-Vue
16
17
18 Reported By:
19
20 Sandra P. DiFebbo
Certified Shorthand Reporter
21 State of Louisiana
22
23
24
25
4
1 STIPULATION
3 It is stipulated and agreed by
4 and between Counsel for the parties hereto that
5 the deposition of AARON BROUSSARD is hereby
6 being taken pursuant to the Louisiana Code of
7 Civil Procedure for all purposes in accordance
8 with law;
9 That the formalities of reading
10 and signing are NOT specifically waived;
11 That the formalities of sealing,
12 certification, and filing are hereby
13 specifically waived.
14 That all objections, save those as to
15 the form of the question and responsiveness of
16 the answer are hereby reserved until such time
17 as this deposition or any part thereof is used
18 or sought to be used in evidence.
19 *****
20 Sandra P. DiFebbo, Certified
21 Shorthand Reporter, in and for the State of
22 Louisiana, officiated in administering the oath
23 to the witness.
24
25
5
1 AARON BROUSSARD, 100 West Esplanade
2 Avenue, Kenner, Louisiana, having been
3 first duly sworn by Sandra P. DiFebbo, was
4 examined and testified on his oath as
5 follows:
6 EXAMINATION BY MS. JACOBS:
7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Broussard.
8 A. Good morning, Darleen.
9 Q. I've already introduced myself, and you
10 and I know each other for many years; is that
11 correct?
12 A. Since law school, yes, ma'am.
13 Q. Now, being an attorney, you know that
14 you have the right to read and sign your
15 deposition, or you can waive that right. Do
16 you wish to read and sign the deposition, or do
17 you wish to waive it? You can consult with
18 your attorney.
19 MR. PHAYER:
20 We will read and sign.
21 BY MS. JACOBS:
22 Q. I have a series of questions to ask you
23 regarding the cases that have been filed. If
24 you don't understand my question, I want you to
25 stop and tell me that you don't understand.

6
1 And, of course, you know that everything that
2 you are answering right now is being taken down
3 by the court reporter and also by the
4 videographer?
5 A. Yes, ma'am.
6 Q. Do you have any questions before we
7 begin the deposition?
8 A. No, ma'am.
9 Q. Also, if you need to take a break at any
10 time, just stop the deposition, and we'll try
11 to accommodate you, either to answer your phone
12 in connection with parish business or personal
13 matters.
14 A. I've taken my phone off my person, so I
15 won't get interrupted that way. If I have to
16 go to the bathroom or take a break to nibble on
17 a snack or something, I'll ask for a break.
18 Q. Would you please state your full name
19 and address for the record?
20 A. Aaron F. Broussard, 100 West Esplanade,
21 Kenner, Louisiana.
22 Q. What is your date of birth?
23 A. January 6, 1949.
24 Q. How old does that make you currently?
25 A. 58.
7
1 Q. Are you taking any medications today
2 which might impair your ability to give answers
3 in this deposition?
4 A. No, ma'am.
5 Q. Are you on any medications for anything
6 today?
7 A. I take an Allopurinol for gout, as a
8 gout prevention, and I take a Vytorin as a
9 cholesterol reducer.
10 Q. Do either of those medications impair
11 your ability to think?
12 A. No, ma'am.
13 Q. Were you on any medications two days
14 before or within five days after and during
15 Hurricane Katrina?
16 A. Same medications.
17 Q. Are you in any way impaired so you
18 cannot give this deposition today, whether it
19 be medically or for any other reason?
20 A. No, ma'am.
21 Q. Is there anything that might have
22 impaired your memory or your ability to give
23 testimony?
24 A. No, ma'am.
25 Q. Have you had any psychological or

8
1 psychiatric breakdowns since Hurricane Katrina?
2 A. No, ma'am.
3 Q. Is your recollection of the Katrina
4 events impaired in any way?
5 A. No, ma'am. Just the time that has
6 passed.
7 Q. But you have a pretty good recollection
8 of the events of Hurricane Katrina; is that
9 fair to state?
10 A. I will give you my best recollection.
11 Q. Thank you, sir. Are you married?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What is the name of your spouse?
14 A. Karen Broussard.
15 Q. Where does she work? Is she employed?
16 A. Yes. She is employed by the parish.
17 Q. What particular area does she work in?
18 A. She works in the parish attorney's
19 office.
20 Q. Is she an attorney?
21 A. No. Paralegal.
22 Q. Is this your second marriage?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. How many times have you been married,
25 twice?
9
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What is the name of your first wife?
3 A. Patricia Barrilleaux.
4 Q. Do you have any children?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And what are their names and ages?
7 A. Troy Broussard, approximately 36 years
8 old now, and Amy Broussard. Well, Amy
9 Broussard Corale. She is married. She is 30
10 years old.
11 Q. Does your first wife work, or is she
12 unemployed at this time?
13 A. I do not know.
14 Q. Do you know if she is in the
15 Metropolitan Jefferson Parish Area?
16 A. Yes. She lives in Jefferson Parish.
17 Q. Where are you currently domiciled in
18 Jefferson Parish?
19 A. 100 West Esplanade, Kenner, Louisiana.
20 Q. Now, the next question that I have to
21 ask you, as you know as an attorney, is pretty
22 perfunctory, but we have to ask you the
23 question. Have you ever been arrested?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Would you please tell us about your

10
1 educational background.
2 A. I am a product of public education in
3 Jefferson Parish. I attended Deckbar
4 Elementary, Kenner Junior High. I'm a graduate
5 of East Jefferson High School, 1966. I
6 attended several universities. LSU in Baton
7 Rouge, USL, at the time it was named, in
8 Lafayette, and got my bachelor degree in
9 history, minor in sociology from then LSUNO in
10 New Orleans. Then went on to Loyola Law School
11 and got my juris doctorate degree in law from
12 Loyola Law School, graduated in 1973.
13 Q. Do you hold any advanced degree in the
14 practice of law?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Do you hold any other degrees?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Tell us about your employment history
19 since high school.
20 A. I was a self-employed -- oh, since high
21 school?
22 Q. Uh-huh.
23 A. In high school, I worked in a number of
24 different capacities. Since high school.
25 Q. Uh-huh.
11
1 A. Well, I was the lead singer in a rock
2 and roll band during my college years.
3 Q. What was the name of that band?
4 A. That was The Other Guys, was the name of
5 that band, and that was the most productive way
6 that I was able to earn money to go through
7 college, but I also worked in the cabinet
8 manufacturer in the summertime. I did forklift
9 work, air freight transport work with the
10 forklift operation involved. Mostly those were
11 the summer jobs.
12 Q. When you went to law school, did you
13 work through law school?
14 A. Continued as an air freight forwarder.
15 Worked for an air freight forwarder company,
16 again, mainly forklift operating and sorting
17 and transferring packages for an air freight
18 forwarder.
19 Q. Did you go to night law school or day
20 law school?
21 A. I went to day law school. Also, during
22 the summer, I worked in a printing company as
23 well during the summer.
24 Q. When you graduated from law school, I
25 take it that you went into the immediate

12
1 practice of law; is that correct?
2 A. Yes. I was a self-employed attorney,
3 sole practitioner.
4 Q. For how long?
5 A. I guess until about 1977, '78.
6 Q. Then did you join a firm?
7 A. Actually created a partnership.
8 Q. Who was that with?
9 A. Glenn Ansardi.
10 Q. How long did you and Mr. Ansardi
11 practice?
12 A. Until about 1982, when I was elected
13 mayor. At that point, I left that partnership
14 and became mayor and did really a very minimal
15 practice of law during the early years of my
16 mayorship.
17 Q. Were you associated with any law firm
18 after you and Mr. Ansardi broke up the
19 partnership?
20 A. I worked with Golden & Fonte for a
21 while, of counsel, and then became of counsel
22 with Martini, LeBlanc Law Firm. Now it's
23 called -- the name has changed, D'Aquila, Volk,
24 et cetera, law firm.
25 Q. Are you currently associated with any

13
1 law firms?
2 A. That's the one I'm presently associated
3 with.
4 Q. What is the correct?
5 A. D'Aquila, Volk, Mullins & Contreras.
6 Q. It's four lawyers, and then you make the
7 fifth lawyer?
8 A. I'm of counsel. I'm not a partner of
9 the firm.
10 Q. Of counsel, what are your duties with
11 that firm?
12 A. Basically, I don't have specific duties
13 with that firm. I'm allowed space in that
14 building, and I refer cases to that firm and am
15 allowed access to the receptionist and office
16 equipment. It's an of counsel relationship.
17 Q. Do you have a fee sharing arrangement
18 with them?
19 A. No, I don't. There is a retainer that I
20 have from them that I get each month that,
21 again, allows me the opportunity to be in that
22 place and also to refer work to them.
23 Q. When you refer them a case, do you get a
24 percentage of the proceeds from that case?
25 A. It can vary. I don't have a fixed

14
1 contractual relationship with them in that way,
2 so there could easily be cases that I refer
3 which I get no referral fee. It just depends
4 on the case and the outcome of the case, but
5 nothing is written in the contractual form.
6 Q. So it's correct that you don't have any
7 type of written contract with them regarding
8 fee arrangements?
9 A. No. That's correct.
10 Q. Have you ever been associated with
11 Wendell Gauthier?
12 A. In my early practice, there was a
13 building that was built on Florida Avenue and
14 which was shared by Wendell Gauthier, myself,
15 my dad, some other independent attorneys as
16 well, in which we had a co-op arrangement of
17 sharing our receptionist, sharing resources of
18 the same office space. That was in Kenner.
19 Then, for about six months, I had
20 an affiliation with that firm in which I worked
21 with the firm for about six months to test out
22 that format for my style of practice of law.
23 After about six months is when I met Glenn
24 Ansardi, and we formed a partnership after
25 that. So that affiliation, that formal

15
1 affiliation with the firm, lasted approximately
2 six months to less than a year.
3 Q. Have you ever been affiliated in any way
4 with Chehardy law firm?
5 A. Not of counsel, no.
6 Q. In any other capacity have you been
7 affiliated with them?
8 A. Other than a possible referral or two
9 over the years of my practice, that's possible.
10 None that I recall at the moment.
11 Q. Now, you said that you currently receive
12 a monthly retainer from the current law firm
13 that you are with; is that correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. How much is that retainer, and what is
16 it based on?
17 A. It's $1,500 a month. It's been the same
18 retainer amount since I began there, and it
19 basically just anchors me at that site. And I
20 believe the law firm sees benefit in me being
21 affiliated with the firm. And, as I said
22 earlier, there is referrals that are generated
23 as a result of my presence there.
24 Q. Do you have to pay any of the lights or
25 overhead in connection with that?

16
1 A. No.
2 Q. So, in other words, the $1,500 is net to
3 you?
4 A. Net to me.
5 Q. Is that correct?
6 A. Yes, that's correct.
7 Q. Have you ever served in the military
8 service?
9 A. No, ma'am.
10 Q. I know that you are currently parish
11 president, and you're in your second term; is
12 that correct?
13 A. I'm in my first term as we speak. My
14 second term will begin in January of next year.
15 Q. What other political offices have you
16 held in the Parish of Jefferson?
17 A. I've been a member of the Jefferson
18 Parish School Board.
19 Q. Tell us what year that was.
20 A. That would have begun in 1974, re-
21 elected, I believe, in 1976. I was elected to
22 the district seat on the Jefferson Parish
23 Council, which at that time had four district
24 positions, elected to that to fill the
25 unexpired term of George Ackel in 1977. I was

17
1 reelected to that position, on the Jefferson
2 Parish Council, in 1979. I was elected mayor
3 in 1982. I was re-elected as mayor three
4 additional times subsequent to that, and then
5 was elected as chairman of the Jefferson Parish
6 Council in 1995 and then re-elected to that
7 position and then elected in 2003 but
8 inaugurated in 2004 to the term of Jefferson
9 Parish president, which I'm serving now.
10 Q. Is it correct that that term expires at
11 the end of the year?
12 A. It will expire inauguration, which is
13 preliminarily set for the second week in
14 January.
15 Q. What are your parishwide responsi-
16 bilities in connection with the presidency?
17 A. Well, they are spelled out in the
18 charter. They're basically managerial. The
19 legislative body, the council, makes the laws,
20 creates the laws, and the parish president and
21 his employees and directors basically manage
22 the parish on a day-to-day basis.
23 Q. Is there a document or a statute or an
24 ordinance which sets forth or describes the
25 office's parishwide authority?

18
1 A. Yes. That would be in the charter.
2 Q. Where is it located in the charter?
3 A. It would be located under the title of
4 parish president and its duties.
5 Q. Are you empowered to act on a parishwide
6 basis in the face of impending natural
7 disasters, such as a hurricane?
8 A. Yes, and that's spelled out in two
9 different set of laws. That would be the
10 parish laws and the state laws of Louisiana
11 regarding emergency situations.
12 Q. If I were a lay person looking to find
13 out exactly how you could act in the face of an
14 impending natural disaster, such as a
15 hurricane, where would I find the documents
16 which set forth your ability to act and your
17 responsibilities to act? In other words, is
18 there a particular statute, document,
19 ordinance, charter, et cetera, which I would
20 refer myself to?
21 A. Generically, I would say the charter. I
22 would say any specific ordinances that were
23 passed regarding these emergency situations and
24 the state law as it applies to emergency
25 situations. Those would be the three generic

19
1 sources that I would guide you to. And
2 specifically, in the office of emergency
3 management, they would have policies and plans
4 in effect that would be a part of their
5 department records.
6 Q. Can you give us a title of the statute
7 or the number of the ordinance that gives you
8 your authority?
9 A. I do not recall that at the present
10 time.
11 Q. If I would need to get that information,
12 whom would I be referred to?
13 A. Why don't you simply refer that possibly
14 to my attorney, and then certainly my office
15 will provide any information you need in
16 regards to that. Everything we have at our
17 disposal will be available to you.
18 Q. You say your attorney. That would be
19 Mr. Phayer?
20 A. Yes. For the purpose of that request.
21 MS. JACOBS:
22 I would like to make a request for
23 that right now, Dennis.
24 MR. PHAYER:
25 What is it specifically you are

20
1 looking for?
2 MS. JACOBS:
3 We want to know what documents,
4 statutes, ordinances, or charters, and the
5 specific instances that give him the right to
6 act on a parishwide basis in the face of
7 impending natural disasters.
8 THE WITNESS:
9 I would include state laws in that
10 as well.
11 MS. JACOBS:
12 Right, exactly.
13 MR. PHAYER:
14 Sure. We can do that.
15 BY MS. JACOBS:
16 Q. As parish president, are you vested with
17 parishwide emergency powers?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What documents, statute, or ordinance
20 gives you those powers?
21 A. All of the above that we've just
22 mentioned.
23 Q. As parish president, are you empowered
24 to order parishwide hurricane evacuations for
25 civilians and parish employees?

21
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What particular statute, ordinance, or
3 charter would give you that particular power?
4 A. All of the above that we mentioned
5 earlier.
6 MS. JACOBS:
7 Dennis, once again, I'm going to
8 make the request for specifics.
9 MR. PHAYER:
10 Certainly.
11 BY MS. JACOBS:
12 Q. In the case of Hurricane Katrina, were
13 you solely responsible for the decisions for
14 the evacuation of the pump operators?
15 A. No, ma'am.
16 Q. Did anyone else aid you in that
17 decision?
18 A. I made no decision in that regard.
19 There was a plan in effect. The plan is based
20 on benchmarks and guidelines of the emergency
21 at hand. That plan was implemented as
22 designed.
23 Q. So are you telling us today that it was
24 not you who made the decision to evacuate the
25 pump operators following Hurricane Katrina?

22
1 A. Yes, ma'am.
2 Q. Was it any particular person, or did you
3 just follow a plan?
4 A. The plan was implemented as designed.
5 Q. What plan are you referring to?
6 A. It's named the Doomsday Plan.
7 Q. Do you have a copy of the Doomsday Plan
8 with you at this time?
9 A. No, ma'am, I don't.
10 Q. Where is that located in the Jefferson
11 Parish records or ordinances or minutes of
12 meetings?
13 A. It would be located in the Department of
14 Emergency Management.
15 MS. JACOBS:
16 Dennis, I'd like to call for
17 production of that document.
18 MR. PHAYER:
19 I believe we've already produced a
20 copy of that.
21 MS. ROGERS:
22 Yes.
23 BY MS. JACOBS:
24 Q. Knowing that Hurricane Katrina was
25 approaching, did you all have a meeting of the

23
1 city council to discuss what you would do in
2 case of an emergency?
3 A. No.
4 Q. No one had a meeting?
5 A. Oh, you said a meeting of the council.
6 There was no meeting of the council.
7 Typically, what would happen in the face of an
8 upcoming hurricane would be a meeting at the
9 emergency management office to discuss the
10 status of a storm that's approaching.
11 Q. Who was present at the emergency
12 management meeting when the evacuation of the
13 pump operators was discussed?
14 A. I don't know that there was such a
15 meeting to discuss that. I'm not aware of a
16 meeting to discuss that. I was not present at
17 any meeting to discuss that, if in fact it
18 occurred.
19 Q. When the pump operators were evacuated,
20 did anyone have to sign an order?
21 A. No, ma'am, not to my knowledge.
22 Q. Who told them that they could evacuate?
23 A. When a plan is implemented through the
24 emergency management department, the department
25 issues to the parish directors and

24
1 administrators what phase of the plan is now in
2 effect, and they give those instructions based
3 on the timing of an approaching storm, how far
4 out, what's the anticipated wind speeds that
5 will be coming into our area. They give
6 direction to the relevant departments of what
7 to do next.
8 Q. Who was in charge of emergency
9 management at the time of Hurricane Katrina?
10 A. Walter Maestri.
11 Q. Is it correct that Mr. Maestri -- his
12 training is in economics; is that correct?
13 A. I don't remember exactly what his
14 degrees are in. He was the department head
15 when I took office, so I'm not as familiar of
16 his personal background.
17 Q. It is correct that Mr. Maestri has no
18 formal training in engineering?
19 A. I don't know the answer to that
20 question.
21 Q. Or in predicting the weather?
23 question.
24 Q. Would he be the only one that would know
25 the answer to that question?

25
2 question.
3 Q. How was he selected to head emergency
4 management?
5 A. He was chosen by a previous
6 administration. I'm not familiar with the
7 process, the advertisement or the selection of
8 Mr. Maestri.
9 Q. Do you know how long he's had that post?
10 A. No, ma'am. I can tell you that he had
11 it from the time that I became parish president
12 until the time that he resigned from the post.
13 Q. When was that?
14 A. I don't remember the exact date. It was
15 after Katrina, but I don't remember the exact
16 date.
17 Q. Is it correct --
18 A. Personnel records could reflect. If you
19 request that through my attorney, we can
20 certainly provide it.
21 Q. It was shortly after Hurricane Katrina
22 that he resigned; isn't that correct?
23 A. I don't recall the word "shortly" being
24 appropriate. I think some time had passed
25 before that. It might have been as much as a

26
1 year. Again, I don't remember the exact date
2 or month.
3 Q. Is it correct as you sit here today that
4 you're telling us that it was Walter Maestri
5 who told the pump operators that they could
6 leave their posts?
7 A. I don't know if it was Walter Maestri
8 personally that told them. Again, as I said
9 earlier, the emergency management department
10 gives directions to various department heads
11 and other administrators about what phase of
12 the plan is now in effect, so exactly the chain
13 of dialogue, I am not familiar with. I was not
14 there when that chain of dialogue occurred.
15 Q. Knowing that there was an impending
16 hurricane coming, you did not make any attempts
17 to find out what Mr. Maestri would tell pump
18 operators with regard to their evacuation?
19 A. No, ma'am.
20 Q. Is there any particular reason why you
21 did not?
22 A. No, ma'am.
23 Q. Did anyone else in your administration
24 contact Walter Maestri to find out what the
25 evacuation plans would be, if any, for the pump

27
1 operators and inform you of what those plans
2 were?
3 A. What point of time are you talking about
4 now?
5 Q. At any time before the arrival of
6 Hurricane Katrina, which would be probably
7 eminently within four days before the striking
8 of the hurricane.
9 A. Why don't you repeat that question so I
10 have a thorough understanding of it?
11 Q. Did anyone in your administration, or
12 anyone working for you or under your direction,
13 make any attempts to contact Mr. Maestri and
14 find out if he had any plans to evacuate the
15 pump operators and then inform you of what
16 those plans would be?
17 A. Prior to the time that these men were
18 evacuated from the position?
19 Q. Yes.
20 A. No, ma'am, no, ma'am.
21 Q. Did you make any attempts or inquiries
22 to determine what the plans would be?
23 A. No, ma'am.
24 Q. Are you telling us today that you had no
25 knowledge that the pump operators were going to

28
1 be evacuated until after the fact?
2 A. Yes, ma'am.
3 Q. Before the arrival of Hurricane Katrina,
4 and knowing that there was a dangerous
5 situation in the Gulf with regard to that
6 hurricane, did you bother to find out what
7 qualifications Walter Maestri had for making
8 those decisions, about whether or not pump
9 operators could be evacuated?
10 A. No, ma'am.
11 Q. Did anyone else under your control or
12 under your direction or in your administration
13 make any attempts to find out?
14 A. Not to my knowledge; however, again, Mr.
15 Maestri was in that position when I took
16 office, therefore, I am not aware of any
17 conversations that anyone had with Mr. Maestri
18 since I became parish president.
19 Q. Going back to the news media
20 teleprompts, et cetera, there was a command
21 post that was set up somewhere in Jefferson
22 Parish prior to the arrival of Hurricane
23 Katrina; is that correct?
24 A. There is an emergency management
25 facility located on Ames Boulevard.

29
1 Q. Ames Boulevard is located on the west
2 bank?
3 A. Yes, ma'am.
4 Q. Were you part of that -- were you in
5 that facility?
6 A. I was in and out of that facility,
7 depending on the timing of your question.
8 Certainly, I was in and out of that facility at
9 various times.
10 Q. Who else would have been at that
11 facility, at the command post facility?
12 A. It would be best probably to provide you
13 an actual list rather than me making a guess at
14 exactly who was in that facility. There were
15 many different agencies represented in that
16 facility, a number of different jurisdictions
17 represented from state police to National Guard
18 to local law enforcement. They had a number of
19 different presences in it, and I'd prefer, so I
20 could be exact, as to forward you a list at
21 your request of what we can recall or my
22 administration can recall of who might have
23 been in that building.
24 Q. Was there a sign-in sheet for people as
25 they came and went into that facility?

30
1 A. Not that I recall, no, ma'am.
2 Q. I'd probably ask --
3 A. There was a -- well, I'll tell you.
4 There was a guard at the base. It is a --
5 there is a check-in point. I don't recall if
6 there was a sign-in sheet, but there certainly
7 was a point of entry in which the credentials
8 of a person being in that building would have
9 been asked for.
10 MS. JACOBS:
11 Mr. Phayer, I ask for production of
12 the list of people who were at the command
13 post.
14 MR. PHAYER:
15 This is parish personnel you're
16 interested in?
17 MS. JACOBS:
18 Anybody that was at the command post
19 on Ames Boulevard.
20 MR. PHAYER:
21 At what point?
22 MS. JACOBS:
23 At any time prior to or during,
24 following Hurricane Katrina.
25 MR. PHAYER:
31
1 I'll be happy to search for what you
2 are looking for. That's a very broad time
3 period you are talking about.
4 MR. BIENVENU:
5 Thursday to Tuesday?
6 MS. JACOBS:
7 That's fine.
8 MR. PHAYER:
9 36 hours before the storm?
10 MR. BIENVENU:
11 From Thursday.
12 MS. JACOBS:
13 And after the storm.
14 MS. ROGERS:
15 Through Tuesday.
16 MR. PHAYER:
17 Sure.
18 BY MS. JACOBS:
19 Q. When did the command post actually set
20 up on Ames Boulevard? When did it become
21 operative?
22 A. It houses the Office of Emergency
23 Management, so it is continually operating as a
24 department office for emergency preparedness.
25 So, in that regard, it's always staffed. So

32
1 maybe rephrase the question, and knowing that,
2 what I've just said, is there another level of
3 --
4 Q. As parish president, when did you first
5 go to the command post?
6 A. In regards to?
7 Q. Hurricane Katrina.
8 A. I recall that it was Friday afternoon,
9 the Friday before Katrina hit, that I got a
10 call from Tim Whitmer telling me that the
11 direction of the storm was taking a more
12 westerly direction and that we needed to meet
13 that Friday afternoon to hear from state
14 officials and hear from -- I think it was the
15 weather service. I'm pretty sure it was one of
16 -- it was either one of the regular calls that
17 began to happen when you're tracking a
18 hurricane in which the state agencies get on
19 the line with the weather service and get on
20 the line with the officials from the other
21 parishes. It was either one of those, or it
22 was a meeting that we held in preparation for
23 one of those calls that was forthcoming.
24 So I don't recall exactly which it
25 was, but that was the first time that I was

33
1 called to EOC to discuss Katrina and its
2 possible impacts for the area.
3 Q. Was Walter Maestri with you on Friday?
4 A. Although I don't have a specific
5 recollection, I would be surprised if he would
6 not have been there for that meeting.
7 Q. Was he there at the command center for
8 most of the time directly before Hurricane
9 Katrina and following Hurricane Katrina?
10 A. I don't know the answer to that as far
11 as the actual time that he was in that building
12 or out of that building. I would refer you to
13 Mr. Maestri or to whatever records there are
14 available of indicating when that person or any
15 other personnel might have been in or out of
16 that building. It was, as you can imagine, a
17 lot of people coming together at about that
18 time.
19 Q. Do you recall seeing Mr. Maestri there?
20 A. Oh, yes.
21 Q. On a lot of occasions; is that correct?
22 A. I saw him often there, yes, ma'am.
23 Q. Did you and Mr. Maestri talk?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Did he discuss with you that he was

34
1 going to make a decision to remove the pump
2 operators from their places in Jefferson Parish
3 and close down the pumps?
4 A. No, ma'am.
5 Q. He never discussed that?
6 A. No, ma'am.
7 Q. Did you have any knowledge that he was
8 going to make that decision?
9 A. No, ma'am.
10 Q. Do you know if he made that decision
11 independently, on his own, or did he consult
12 with other people?
13 A. My understanding, after the fact, is
14 that that was part of the plan that was devised
15 by emergency management.
16 Q. Is it stated in the Doomsday Plan that
17 if a hurricane is approaching, pump operators
18 would be removed from their positions?
19 A. I would let the plan speak for itself.
20 Q. Well, you have read the plan, haven't
21 you, Mr. Broussard?
22 A. I have reviewed the plan, yes.
23 Q. After having reviewed that plan, can you
24 show me anywhere in that plan where it says
25 that when a hurricane is approaching, pump

35
1 operators will be removed from the pumps?
2 A. Ma'am, if you'll show me the plan right
3 now, I'll read it in front of you.
4 MS. JACOBS:
5 You want to give him a copy of it
6 Dennis? You have a copy.
7 MR. PHAYER:
8 I don't have a copy. I'm sure we
9 have a copy in the office.
10 MS. JACOBS:
11 Can we temporarily go off the record
12 and get a copy of it? Because I do have some
13 questions to ask him about that, and in
14 fairness to Mr. Broussard, I want him to be
15 able to adequately answer my questions.
16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
17 Off the record at 9:43.
18 (BRIEF RECESS)
20 Back on the record at 9:53.
21 MS. JACOBS:
22 Miss Reporter, would you please
23 read back the previous question that we had to
24 the deponent?
25 (COURT REPORTER READ BACK)

36
1 THE WITNESS:
2 After reviewing a copy of the
3 Catastrophic Weather Event Doomsday Plan that's
4 in front of me, which I have just reviewed for
5 the purposes of making this answer, there are
6 two areas in this plan that would constitute an
7 answer to your question.
8 The first would be under the title
9 of Personnel, in which it states that ALL, and
10 that is in bold and underlined, ALL activated
11 Jefferson Parish Emergency Personnel under the
12 direct authority of the parish president, and
13 it defines that as Jefferson Parish Employees,
14 will immediately evacuate to the Jefferson
15 Parish Employee Shelter at Mount Hermon High
16 School in Mount Hermon, Louisiana. Then it
17 states a number of exceptions.
18 The second reference would be under
19 Logistics, which is underlined. On the second
20 page, the last sentence of Logistics, it says,
21 "Special," and it says, in quotes, "Wet Fleet"
22 vehicles will be used to ferry teams working at
23 isolated pump stations to shelters. It says
24 see Appendix A.
25 Q. In furtherance of the questions, the

37
1 Catastrophic Weather Event, also referred to as
2 the Doomsday Plan, can you tell us when that
3 was enacted?
4 MR. PHAYER:
5 Do you mean in connection with when
6 it was implemented during Katrina or when --
7 MS. JACOBS:
8 No. When it was enacted, when the
9 plan was enacted.
10 MR. PHAYER:
11 Drawn up?
12 MS. JACOBS:
13 Yes.
14 THE WITNESS:
15 It was previous to my
16 administration. What I remember being told was
17 that it was approximately 1998. I could be a
18 year off on that, but I recall being told 1998.
19 BY MS. JACOBS:
20 Q. When you took office, did you review the
21 plan?
22 A. No, ma'am.
23 Q. Did you make any changes to the plan?
24 A. I did not, no, ma'am.
25 Q. What is meant by a catastrophic weather

38
1 event? What does the term "catastrophic" mean?
2 A. This plan, under the title of Prologue,
3 says, "In the event that Jefferson Parish faces
4 a catastrophic weather event, defined as a
5 confirmed forecast from the National Weather
6 Service/National Hurricane Center of a Category
7 IV or greater hurricane, making landfall within
8 the Metropolitan Region, the following plan
9 will be implemented immediately."
10 Q. But it's correct that Hurricane Katrina
11 never was a Category 4 hurricane when it came
12 into land; is that correct?
13 A. Well, this says a confirmed forecast,
14 which means that this is, as is defined in a
15 prologue, this is what is being confirmed by
16 the National Weather Service in advance of a
17 hurricane coming into the area.
18 Q. Isn't it a fact that when they were
19 predicting landfall right before the hurricane
20 came in, they never said it would be a -- it
21 would strike with Category 4 winds in the
22 Jefferson Parish area?
23 A. I do not recall the exact predictions
24 that were made by the weather service at
25 different times, but I'll just refer to the

39
1 public record that does itemize what the
2 National Weather Service issued as its
3 forecast, because this relates to forecast. It
4 doesn't say here what times. It just says
5 forecast.
6 Q. Do you have anything in writing that you
7 can refer us to today that would say that you
8 received information that Hurricane Katrina
9 would make landfall with Category 4 winds?
10 A. I would again refer you to the public
11 record of the documents that we have in
12 Jefferson Parish's possession that would
13 confirm what the predictions and the forecasts
14 were of the National Weather Service.
15 As I mentioned to you earlier,
16 there were phone conferences that were
17 conducted at regular times. I don't remember
18 when the first one began, but once they begin,
19 they're usually at regular times each day that
20 the weather service makes their forecast and
21 gives up-to-date forecast information as part
22 of that phone conference, and that phone
23 conference was shared by a multitude of
24 different agencies, as I've described earlier.
25 Q. Can you give us the name of any person

40
1 associated with the weather bureau or
2 forecasting from the National Weather Service
3 who told you that when Hurricane Katrina came
4 on shore, it would strike the Metropolitan
5 Jefferson Parish Area with Category 4 hurricane
6 winds? Can you give us a name?
7 MR. PHAYER:
8 Who told Mr. Broussard personally or
9 told the parish?
10 MS. JACOBS:
11 Right. Well, let's take it both
12 ways. Told Mr. Broussard personally and then
13 told the parish in which he may have heard it.
14 THE WITNESS:
15 The only communication that I would
16 have been -- that I was privy to with the
17 National Weather Service, that I recall, were
18 these conference calls in which the weather
19 service would make their forecasts known to
20 everyone on the conference call. As far as any
21 communications that may have been held between
22 the weather service or personnel of the weather
23 service directly to my emergency management
24 office, I don't have any recollection of who
25 that person might be.

41
1 BY MS. JACOBS:
2 Q. So you cannot give us a name as you sit
3 here today; is that correct?
4 A. I cannot, as we sit here today, but I'm
5 sure public records will reveal that name or
6 those names that were representing the National
7 Weather Service at that time.
8 Q. It is correct, as you sit here today,
9 that Hurricane Katrina did not come on shore
10 with Category 4 winds; is that correct?
11 A. Well, I don't have the expertise to make
12 that assessment. I'd refer you again to those
13 experts who make those category judgments.
14 Q. So as you sit here today, you're telling
15 us in this room that you do not know what the
16 velocity of the winds were when Hurricane
17 Katrina came on shore?
18 A. My recollection is that there have been
19 different assessments of that storm since it
20 hit landfall, and those assessments have, if I
21 recall, been changed by various experts, and
22 I'm not an expert to render judgment on the
23 scientific category of that storm.
24 Q. I'm talking about your own personal
25 knowledge as parish president, following

42
1 Hurricane Katrina, can you tell us the velocity
2 of the winds when it struck the Jefferson
3 Parish area?
4 A. No, ma'am, I cannot tell you that.
5 Q. It's correct, though, that the
6 Catastrophic Weather Event, referred to as the
7 Doomsday Plan, should be implemented only when
8 the National Hurricane Center says that there
9 is a Category 4 or greater hurricane making
10 landfall within the metropolitan region?
11 A. That's what the plan says, make landfall
12 within the metropolitan region.
13 Q. So if there is no forecast of a Category
14 4 or greater hurricane, is it correct that this
15 Catastrophic Weather Event, or the Doomsday
16 Plan, should not be implemented?
17 A. Well, the prologue says exactly as I
18 read it. I'll let it speak for itself.
19 Q. A Category 4, according to my experts,
20 is a 135 miles per hour and above winds. Can
21 you tell us with any certainty whether or not
22 you know that Jefferson Parish experienced 135-
23 mile-an-hour winds or above following Hurricane
24 Katrina, during or following -- rather during
43
1 A. No, ma'am.
2 Q. Going back, once again, to my previous
3 question, as parish president, reviewing the
4 Doomsday Plan, it should not be implemented
5 unless it's a Category 4 or greater hurricane
6 that's being forecasted, according to the
7 written document?
8 A. Yes, ma'am. I think you are recounting
9 the document just as I read it.
10 Q. Now, this particular document says that
11 the following people will remain in the Parish
12 of Jefferson throughout the event. It lists a
13 bunch of people. It also lists the pump
14 station director; is that correct?
15 A. That title is there, yes.
16 Q. Who was the pump station director during
18 A. I would refer you to public record on
19 that. I do not recall who --
20 Q. You don't know who he was?
21 A. I do not recall the name, no, ma'am.
22 Q. Do you know whether or not he remained
23 in Jefferson Parish?
24 A. No, ma'am, I do not.
25 Q. Did you make any attempt to see whether

44
1 or not he remained, as parish president?
2 A. No, ma'am, I did not.
3 Q. Do you know if anybody else made any
4 attempt to see if he remained?
6 Q. As parish president, do you know if the
7 other people listed in this category, the chief
8 administrative assistant, the parish attorney,
9 the emergency manager, et cetera, all these
10 other people that are listed here, remained in
11 Jefferson Parish during Hurricane Katrina?
12 A. Certainly, I knew that Tim Whitmer was
13 here. Certainly, I knew that Tom Wilkinson was
14 here.
15 Q. Who were they?
16 A. Tom Wilkinson is the parish attorney.
17 Tim Whitmer is the chief administrative
18 assistant. Walter Maestri would be the
19 emergency manager.
20 Q. Was he here during the entire event?
21 A. To my recollection, yes.
22 Q. Look at the other people. General
23 services director, the director of engineering,
24 do you know if they were there?
25 A. I don't have any independent

45
1 recollection of them.
2 Q. You don't know even know who they are;
3 is that correct?
4 A. No recollection at this time.
5 Q. Turn to the second page. It says, "It
6 will be the responsibility of the Directors of
7 Pump Stations, Streets, Drainage, and the other
8 field based departments to make sure that their
9 employees are at the "in parish" employee
10 shelters at the appointed time." Does it say
11 that?
12 A. Yes, ma'am.
13 Q. What is an in-parish employee shelter?
14 A. That would have to be defined by the
15 director of emergency management, because there
16 is no definition given in this plan.
17 Q. So you don't know what it is, where it's
18 located, or where it was located during
20 A. No, ma'am.
21 Q. As you sit here today, do you know
22 whether or not any pump station operators were
23 in the in-parish employee shelters?
24 A. No, ma'am.
25 Q. As you sit here today, at the time of

46
1 Hurricane Katrina, it's your testimony, under
2 oath, that you don't know where these in-parish
3 employee shelters were located?
4 A. If in fact they existed at all in
5 Katrina, no, ma'am, I don't.
6 Q. So before Hurricane Katrina made
7 landfall, and knowing that a Doomsday Plan was
8 going to be implemented, as parish president,
9 you never made any attempt to look at this plan
10 and determine whether or not the plan was going
11 to be implemented as directed?
12 A. Your question says that I knew that the
13 Doomsday Plan was going to be implemented.
14 I've already testified that I did not know this
15 plan existed calling for the evacuation of the
16 pump operators. So your question to me would
17 not be a question that I could answer any other
18 way than I've answered before, that I was not
19 made aware of this plan prior to Katrina.
20 Q. So you didn't know if it existed. Do
21 you know if Walter Maestri followed this plan,
22 and I'm referring to the Catastrophic Weather
23 Event Doomsday Plan, at the time of Hurricane
24 Katrina?
25 A. I would assume, assume, that he followed

47
1 these plans. I don't have any personal
2 knowledge that he followed every element of
3 every plan that was in front of him. I don't
4 have that knowledge as we speak.
5 Q. He never gave you a copy of it and said
6 that this was the plan that was going to be
7 followed?
8 A. No, ma'am.
9 Q. As parish president, "the head of the
10 ship," as we may say in admiralty and maritime
11 law, wasn't it your responsibility to know what
12 type of plan was going to be implemented in the
13 case of an impending disaster which could be
14 catastrophic?
15 A. I would have assumed that all directors
16 would forward to me all information that I
17 needed to know on a need-to-know basis. That's
18 an assumption that I would always make of my
19 directors under emergency plans or any other
20 plans. I would make that assumption.
21 Q. You had no meeting with them to
22 determine what they were going to do or what
23 course they were going to follow prior to the
24 arrival of Hurricane Katrina?
25 A. Except in regards to, as I mentioned

48
1 before, the conference calls that were held on
2 a regular basis, and then the determination
3 about citizen evacuation was an independent
4 discussion, because that is a matter of
5 coordination with other parishes and
6 coordination with the state in regards to
7 contraflow. So that is a decision that I was
8 asked to participate in and to make a decision
9 on.
10 Q. I think my direct question to you was,
11 as parish president, as head of the ship, as we
12 say in admiralty and maritime law, did you make
13 any attempt to meet with your directors or
14 emergency management chiefs or personnel to
15 determine what plan they had for the parish
16 with regard to the evacuation of essential
17 personnel, such as pump operators, prior to the
18 arrival of Hurricane Katrina?
19 A. No, ma'am.
20 Q. Is there any particular reason why you
21 did not, because you were parish president?
22 A. Again, emergency plans are written in
23 advance of emergencies, and these plans are
24 implemented according to their own benchmarks
25 and their guidelines. I trusted the people

49
1 that were in place.
2 Q. You said that you read the Doomsday
3 Plan. Is it correct that you did not even know
4 they had a Doomsday Plan before Hurricane
5 Katrina?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. You didn't read it until after Hurricane
8 Katrina?
10 Q. When did you read it?
11 A. I do not remember the exact day or the
12 exact time, but it was after the event, at the
13 time that this became an issue, and I asked --
14 Q. In other words, the lawsuits become an
15 issue?
16 A. No. I don't think the lawsuits were
17 filed at that time, but I don't recall the
18 exact timing. Once it became an issue for
19 questioning by the press, I recall wanting to
20 see a copy of this plan myself and to review
21 it.
22 Q. The parish president is a very important
23 position. It's the top echelon. Would you
24 agree with that?
25 A. Well, it is one of the top positions in

50
1 the parish government. There are eight elected
2 to run the parish, seven councilmen and one
3 parish president, so certainly I'm one of
4 eight.
5 Q. Would you say that the buck stops with
6 you as parish president, generally, in decision
7 making?
8 A. I think from an accountability stand-
9 point in the public eye, that's certainly a
10 perception.
11 Q. As parish president, didn't you keep an
12 hourly track on what was happening prior to
14 A. I did not. I assume that there are
15 records with emergency management that would be
16 tracking the conference calls that I mentioned
17 earlier and other events, such as press
18 conferences that were held.
19 Q. So you didn't feel that that was your
20 responsibility?
21 A. No, ma'am.
22 Q. You relied on others to make the
23 decisions regarding the emergency situation
24 created by Hurricane Katrina?
25 A. I relied on others to implement all

51
1 plans.
2 Q. Not knowing what those plans would be?
3 A. Not knowing exactly what those plans
4 would be.
5 Q. Did you ever inquire to Mr. Maestri or
6 anyone else whether or not the pump operators
7 would be available to man the pumping stations
8 when Hurricane Katrina made landfall?
9 A. No, ma'am.
10 Q. Didn't you think that that was very
11 important?
12 A. I did not review personally or
13 anticipate personally every aspect of the
14 ramifications of the approaching storm. I
15 trusted the people that were in the positions
16 they were in. I trusted them to implement the
17 plans that had been prepared in the advent of
18 an emergency.
19 Q. If I were to tell you that Mr. Maestri
20 has a degree in economics, would you say that
21 he is imminently prepared to make decisions
22 regarding Jefferson Parish safety, with
23 a degree in economics?
24 A. I'm not an expert that can give you an
25 answer to that. I know that emergency

52
1 management personnel go to seminars and
2 trainings and specialized conferences. I don't
3 know how many of those Mr. Maestri attended.
4 I don't think I'm qualified to give you that
5 answer.
6 Q. Is it correct that it was Mr. Maestri
7 who gave the order for the pump operators to
8 evacuate the pumps?
9 A. I don't know that for a fact. That is
10 something that, again, public record would have
11 to reveal.
12 Q. What public record?
13 A. Whatever record that we have at our
14 disposal to let you view.
15 Q. He never told you prior to the
16 evacuation that the pump operators were going
17 to be evacuated?
18 A. No, ma'am.
19 Q. Would you have agreed with that
20 decision?
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. You don't know if you would have agreed
23 with it?
24 A. (Witness nods head.)
25 Q. When did you first find out that the

53
1 pump operators were evacuated?
2 A. After they left.
3 Q. Was that before the arrival of Hurricane
4 Katrina or afterwards?
5 A. It was before.
6 Q. How soon before?
7 A. I don't recall the exact hour or time.
8 I remember it being approximately Sunday
9 evening when I was told.
10 Q. What did you do at that time?
11 A. I asked whether or not the canals had
12 been pumped down to the lowest possible degree
13 and whether or not debris had been cleared away
14 from the screens so that there would be as
15 little impediment to pumping as possible when
16 the pump operators returned to their duties.
17 Q. Who informed you that the pump operators
18 would not be manning their pumping stations?
19 A. Tim Whitmer.
20 Q. What was his occupation with the
21 administration at that time?
22 A. He is the chief administrative officer
23 of the parish.
24 Q. Did he tell you who made the decision to
25 remove the pump operators?

54
1 A. No, ma'am.
2 Q. Did you ask him?
3 A. He said it was the plan that was in
4 place. Yes, I asked him.
5 Q. Did he give you a name of anybody?
6 A. He said it was in the plan to do it that
7 way.
8 Q. Did he tell you that he made that
9 decision?
10 A. No, he did not.
11 Q. Did you ask who made the decision?
12 A. Yes. He said it was in the plan.
13 Q. Now, after the fact, and now knowing
14 that a lot of your parish flooded, have you
15 gone back to do an independent investigation to
16 determine who made the decision to remove the
17 pump operators?
18 A. It was this plan that we have in front
19 of us at this moment. That is the basis of the
20 decisions that were made regarding evacuation
21 of all personnel. This is the plan that was in
22 effect, and the plan was implemented.
23 Q. I understand that you have a plan, and
24 that the plan was implemented. Who gave the
25 authority for the plan to be implemented?

55
1 A. Well, if a plan is in effect, and it has
2 its benchmarks that are incorporated in the
3 plan, then the plan is activated according to
4 benchmarks that trigger those aspects of the
5 plan.
6 Q. Who activated it?
7 A. Well, I would assume it would have been
8 the Office of Emergency Management, who has the
9 direct oversight of the plan and the
10 implementation of the plan, as I said earlier
11 in my conversation.
12 Q. Would that be Mr. Maestri?
13 A. Yes. That's my assumption, it would be
14 Mr. Maestri.
15 MS. JACOBS:
16 In connection with the testimony of
17 Mr. Broussard, I'd like to offer, introduce,
18 and file into evidence the Catastrophic Weather
19 Event Doomsday Plan as B-1 and ask it be filed.
20 MR. PHAYER:
21 Darleen, can we use this copy?
22 This is Bates stamped. This is what we
23 previously produced.
24 MS. JACOBS:
25 We'll mark it B-1 and give it to the

56
1 court reporter.
2 BY MS. JACOBS:
3 Q. Could you, as parish president, have
4 vetoed the decision to remove the pump
5 operators?
6 A. I don't know the answer to that.
7 Q. Did you have any reservations about
8 whether or not they should remain in their
9 pumping stations?
10 A. I was told after the fact.
11 Q. Well, I thought you just told us that
12 you actually were told Sunday, the Sunday
13 before the storm, that the pump operators were
14 going to not be at their pumping stations?
15 A. What I said was that they had already
16 left, by the time that I was told that they had
17 left the stations. They had already evacuated
18 the parish.
19 Q. Do you know where they had been
20 evacuated to?
21 A. I asked at that time, and I was told
22 Mount Hermon.
23 Q. Did you know they actually went to
24 Tangipahoa?
25 A. I know that because at the time that

57
1 they arrived in Mount Hermon, there was
2 communication back to the EOC that the
3 designated shelter was filled to capacity. So
4 I contacted the parish president in Washington
5 Parish and asked for assistance for all of the
6 emergency personnel. There was a large caravan
7 of vehicles and a large contingency of
8 employees that were involved.
9 Q. So it's correct then that they were not
10 in the parish, in in-parish employee shelters?
11 A. I do not know if in-parish shelters were
12 set up as a prelude to Katrina and whether or
13 not these essential personnel that are
14 described in this plan went to an in-parish
15 shelter as a staging area, as a loading area.
16 They could have easily gone do an in-parish
17 shelter as a loading area. I don't know that
18 for a fact. You're asking me that question.
19 My answer is I don't know that for a fact, but
20 an in-parish shelters could have been set up as
21 collection points for essential personnel for
22 transport purposes.
23 Q. Let's's go back to that plan,
24 Catastrophic Weather Event Doomsday Plan. It
25 says, "It will be the responsibility of the

58
1 Directors of Pump Stations, Streets, Drainage
2 and the other field based departments to make
3 sure that their employees are in the
4 'in-parish' employee shelters at the appointed
5 time." On Sunday night, you knew, or you were
6 told that the employees, or the pump operators,
7 had been evacuated, not to any place in the
8 parish but actually to Mount Hermon. Is that a
9 fact, yes or no?
10 A. That's what I was told, yes.
11 Q. The person that told you that was whom?
12 A. Tim Whitmer.
13 Q. As you sit here today, you do not know
14 who gave the order to send them to Tangipahoa?
15 A. No, ma'am.
16 Q. Because you did not review a copy of the
17 Doomsday Plan, you had no knowledge at that
18 time as to what the Doomsday Plan required to
19 be implemented?
21 Q. If you had had a copy of the
22 Catastrophic Weather Event Doomsday Plan, you
23 would have known that the plan says that it
24 would be the responsibility of the director of
25 the pump stations to have their employees in

59
1 the in-parish employee shelters at the
2 appointed time?
3 A. I did not have a copy.
4 Q. You would have known it if you would
5 have had a copy?
6 A. If I would have had a copy, I would be
7 reading the same language that you're quoting
8 to me now.
9 Q. Did you know on Sunday that there was a
10 Doomsday Plan that was being implemented?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Nobody told you that?
13 A. No, ma'am.
14 Q. As parish president, you never made any
15 attempt, knowing there was a hurricane
16 approaching, to get a copy of the Doomsday
17 Plan?
18 A. No, ma'am. I did not know it existed.
19 Q. You never asked anyone?
20 A. About a plan that I did not know exists?
21 No, ma'am.
22 Q. I'm a little bit curious, because, as
23 parish president, you're the, quote, as we said
24 before, the head of the ship. Are you telling
25 us today, as we sit here, that everybody around

60
1 you, apparently, knew that there was a Doomsday
2 Plan. Mr. Maestri knew it, the gentleman you
3 just mentioned who was the head of operations
4 knew it, but you, as parish president, didn't
5 know there was a written plan?
6 A. Yes, ma'am.
7 Q. You did not?
9 Q. Whose responsibility was it to get a
10 copy of this plan to you?
11 A. All responsibilities involving emergency
12 preparedness would have come under the Office
13 of Emergency Preparedness. The director was
14 Walter Maestri. He was the director at the
15 time. You're asking me a question about whose
16 responsibility it was. I don't know where that
17 responsibility is spelled out in any document,
18 et cetera, so I don't know the exact answer to
19 that question. My assumption is, anything
20 regarding emergency preparedness usually comes
21 through the director of that department, as
22 with any other department.
23 Q. You knew that the Doomsday Plan, though,
24 was being implemented on Sunday, Sunday
25 evening, I think you testified?

61
1 A. After all essential personnel had been
2 evacuated, including the pump operators, that's
3 when I became aware that the evacuation of the
4 operators had taken place, after the fact.
5 Q. At that time, did you ask for a copy of
6 the Doomsday Plan from anyone, Mr. Maestri or
7 anybody else?
8 A. No, ma'am.
9 Q. You never asked for it?
10 A. Not at that time, no, ma'am.
11 Q. If you had a copy of that plan, would
12 you have followed the plan?
14 Q. Did you all ever have any type of
15 scenarios where you all actually planned for a
16 fake hurricane, in the event of a fake
17 hurricane, and actually went through exercises
18 to see what would happen in the event that a
19 catastrophic hurricane would approach?
20 A. Not that I was invited to participate in
21 and not that I recall.
22 Q. Do you remember the Hurricane Jean
23 exercise?
24 A. No, ma'am. Do I have an independent
25 recollection of that? No, ma'am.

62
1 Q. It was a state exercise in the event
2 that they had a catastrophic hurricane
3 approaching, and a lot of agencies took place
4 in it, to prepare for a natural disaster, such
5 as a hurricane. You're telling us -- that
6 happened in, I believe, 2004. You never
7 participated in that?
8 A. I don't have an independent recollection
9 of that. I do not recall at all participating
10 in that. You're saying that was a state
11 exercise?
12 Q. Right.
13 A. No, ma'am, I did not participate in
14 that state exercise.
15 Q. As parish president, I take it you're
16 familiar with parish drainage issues; is that
17 correct?
18 A. I have a general knowledge, not
19 necessarily a specific academic knowledge.
20 Q. Do you know how rainfall events affect
21 large portions of Jefferson Parish?
22 A. In a general way, yes.
23 Q. Well, let's take, for instance, the May
24 1995 flood. Do you remember that?
25 A. Yes, ma'am. I was mayor of Kenner at

63
1 the time.
2 Q. That was a rain event?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did that affect a large portion of
5 Jefferson Parish?
6 A. There were a number of areas that were
7 flooded as a result of that rain event.
8 Q. Based on your recollection, can you tell
9 us today what areas of the parish were affected
10 with flooding?
11 A. I was mayor of Kenner at the time. I
12 don't have an independent recollection of those
13 areas that would have been flooded throughout
14 the parish.
15 Q. So you can't remember any areas that
16 were flooded?
17 A. I remember that River Ridge and the
18 Harahan area experienced flooding. I recall
19 that specifically. I don't recall all areas
20 that were impacted as a result of that flood.
21 Q. Historically, in Jefferson Parish, are
22 there rainfall flooding problems with
23 particular areas?
24 A. Generally, rainfall doesn't fall evenly
25 when it falls, so rainfall can fall heavier in

64
1 certain areas, in certain times, and for longer
2 durations, therefore, there are many different
3 factors that could affect whether or not an
4 area floods, its elevation, the amount of
5 rainfall, and its duration.
6 Q. Would you tell us what particular
7 flooding problems existed on the east bank of
8 Jefferson Parish with historical rainfall
9 flooding problems, based on your knowledge?
10 A. Well, just in general, you've had a
11 number of different areas in East Jefferson
12 that have experienced flooding, depending on
13 the rain event, as I just testified earlier,
14 depending on the amount of rain and where it
15 fell. River Ridge, for instance, in Harahan,
16 were always considered to be higher elevation,
17 closer to the river, and yet they experienced
18 flooding in the event that you've just
19 mentioned.
20 Q. Any other areas on the east bank that
21 you can remember?
22 A. Generally, as you go further north, and
23 the elevation is less, there would have been,
24 I'm certain, other events that would have
25 occurred throughout our modern history that

65
1 could have created flooding problems in those
2 areas, again, because of elevation, duration of
3 rainfall, and the amount or the intensity of
4 the rain.
5 Q. What about the west bank?
6 A. West bank is, again, topographically
7 similar in the sense that the higher elevations
8 are at the river, and then they graduate in a
9 slope back towards southerly, in a southerly
10 direction, back toward the marshes. So, again,
11 elevation, duration of rainfall, intensity of
12 the rainfall, those are factors that all would
13 contribute to a potential flooding situation.
14 Q. I'm sorry. I'm referring to -- going
15 back to my previous question, I said it was
16 Hurricane Jean. I think it was Hurricane Pam
17 that was the exercise in 2004 which was the
18 imaginary hurricane going to be catastrophic.
19 Did you participate in that?
20 A. I recall that name, but I was, again,
21 not a participant in that exercise. I did not,
22 no, ma'am.
23 Q. Do the east bank drainage canals
24 interconnect so as to provide drainage for
25 large areas?
66
1 A. It's an integrated system of canals,
2 east bank and west bank.
3 Q. The west bank canals also interconnect?
4 A. Yes. It's an integrated system.
5 Q. Can you tell us how they are
6 interconnected?
7 A. Basically north, south, east, west.
8 Q. Who could actually give us information
9 as to how they're connected?
10 A. I would direct you to our director of
11 drainage.
12 Q. If the canals are interconnected,
13 doesn't that mean that rain water runoff in
14 canals will flow to the lowest level?
15 A. The drainage system is a gravity system.
16 It's designed that way, so it would be "gravity
17 fed," I think is the term that they use. So
18 it's a gravity-fed system, east bank and west
19 bank.
20 Q. Doesn't it also mean the rainfall runoff
21 would start overflowing the canal banks if
22 there is no pumping going on?
23 A. That would depend again on the amount of
24 rainfall, the duration of the rainfall, and the
25 topography in which the rain fell.

67
1 Q. Who can you point us to that would have
2 information?
3 A. Our drainage director would have a lot
4 of information in regards to our pumping
5 capacities and the direction of flows in the
6 canals.
7 Q. As parish president, are you familiar
8 with the parish's drainage pump capacity?
9 A. It's ever changing, so any amount of
10 capacity you want at a certain time, I would
11 again direct you to the drainage director.
12 Each pumping station has different capacities,
13 and those capacities can be altered by repair
14 schedules. They can be altered by Corps
15 improvements or improvements that we're making
16 through Corps programs, so they could be
17 changing from time to time.
18 Q. Have you ever discussed the parish's
19 draining pump capacity with anyone?
20 A. Well, certainly, through the SELA
21 Program, we're always forwarding information,
22 our parish government, is always forwarding
23 information of requests for improvements to our
24 overall drainage system that we have been
25 working with the Corps of Engineers through

68
1 Southeast Louisiana Flood Control Program.
2 There are dollars that are generated through
3 this program which the parish matches on a
4 75/25 percent basis.
5 Q. Can you refer us to any sources of
6 information, such as drainage department
7 statistics, public information reports
8 concerning parish drainage pump capacity?
9 A. Yes. In regards to the SELA Program
10 that I just mentioned, we often report to the
11 citizens at least once a year what the status
12 of our SELA Programs are. That would relate to
13 pumping capacities and canal improvements.
14 Q. Is the parish drainage pump capacity
15 intended to protect the entire east and west
16 banks?
17 A. It's designed to pump as much as it can
18 pump according to the capacity that it has.
19 When you talk about the word "protection," then
20 that assumes that there is a formula that
21 guaranties protection. I don't know of a
22 formula that guaranties protection. I don't
23 have the expertise to give you that formula.
24 Q. At the time of Hurricane Katrina,
25 approximately how many people lived on the east

69
1 bank?
2 A. I don't know the exact number. The
3 majority of people have traditionally lived on
4 the east bank of our parish. In the last
5 several decades, that's been the case, So the
6 majority of the people would have lived on the
7 east bank of the parish.
8 Q. Can give us a number, an approximate
9 number?
10 A. Roughly, 460,000 people, approximately,
11 pre-Katrina. You would have probably had close
12 to 60 percent of that population on the east
13 bank.
14 Q. At the time of Hurricane Katrina, do you
15 know approximately how many people lived on the
16 west bank of Jefferson Parish?
17 A. Again, that would be an approximation.
18 Approximately 40 percent, although, we have
19 population statistics that I can make readily
20 available to you that would give you the most
21 exact numbers that we have available to us.
22 Q. Where would those statistics be located?
23 A. They would probably be -- well, they
24 would certainly be in our files, as we get
25 updates on population from the Census Bureau,

70
1 is one. And there is a university in Louisiana
2 that typically updates in between the census
3 tracts of ten years. So whatever information
4 we have in our files, if you make the request
5 for it, I'll provide that information for you.
6 Q. At the time of Hurricane Katrina, do you
7 know how many houses were located on the east
8 bank versus the west bank?
9 A. No, ma'am.
10 Q. Do you know if anyone would have that
11 information?
12 A. You can request it of us. Again,
13 whatever information we have may be through
14 JEDCO, possibly through our water meter counts.
15 We could certainly give you that. Our water
16 meters might be the best indicator that we'd
17 have control over. The electric company would
18 have electric meters as a means of estimating
19 the number of houses.
20 Q. Can you tell us what historical rainfall
21 events have caused wide areas of flooding on
22 the east bank and west bank of Jefferson
23 Parish?
24 A. Since what date?
25 Q. Well, since 1995.

71
1 A. Well, I think the one you mentioned in
2 1995 was the biggest event of any that has
3 happened since. I mean, obviously, other than
4 Katrina. Katrina would have been the biggest.
5 And '95 certainly would have been the other
6 major one that stands out in my mind.
7 Q. Isn't it a fact that even before
8 Hurricane Katrina you were aware that flooding
9 on the east and west bank was a parishwide
10 threat in certain areas?
11 A. Because we are surrounded by levees on
12 both the east and west bank, we are always
13 susceptible to the happenstance of heavy
14 rainfall coming into our area, creating more
15 rainwater than we have pumping capacity.
16 Q. How many pumping stations do they have
17 on the east bank of Jefferson Parish?
18 A. We have, to my recollection, and I can
19 give you exact records, we have six major
20 stations.
21 Q. How many pumping stations do they have
22 on the west bank of Jefferson Parish?
23 A. You have a greater number because you
24 have a number of smaller stations. In some
25 instances, you have unmanned stations. Around

72
1 13 would be my approximation, but we can give
2 you the exact number at your request.
3 Q. You know where these pumping stations
4 are located?
5 A. Again, I will give you the locations of
6 each of those stations, east bank and west
7 bank. I'd rather be exact in my answer, so
8 we'll provide that information to you.
9 MS. JACOBS:
10 We'd like to call for production of
11 that, Dennis, and the locations of the pumping
12 stations on the east and west bank.
13 MR. PHAYER:
14 I'll be happy to look for that. We
15 may have produced some of this previously in
16 discovery.
17 MS. JACOBS:
18 I don't recall it being produced.
19 MR. PHAYER:
20 That's fine. We'll check that for
21 you.
22 BY MS. JACOBS:
23 Q. Can you tell us the total pumping
24 capacity of the drainage system in inches of
25 rainfall per hour for the east and west bank?

73
1 A. Again, I'd refer you to our drainage
2 department. We can give you the exact numbers
3 of our pumping capacity. Are you asking for
4 that capacity now or at the time of Katrina?
5 Q. I'll ask Dennis to produce that for me.
6 At the time of the Hurricane Katrina is really
7 what we're interested in.
8 A. We can give you those figures that you
9 are requesting.
10 MR. PHAYER:
11 The pumping capacities of those?
12 Sure.
13 MS. JACOBS:
14 Exactly.
15 THE WITNESS:
16 They vary from station to station,
17 because the stations are different sizes.
18 BY MS. JACOBS:
19 Q. Are any of these pumping stations on the
20 east bank or the west bank automated? In other
21 words, can they operate with a switch?
22 A. I would prefer you get that information
23 from our drainage director. When you say the
24 word "automated," there are a lot of
25 connotations with that, as to the functionality

74
1 of a station versus what ability you have to
2 turn on a certain piece of equipment. So,
3 typically, automation has a connotation to it.
4 You're asking this question at the time of
5 Katrina, so I would direct that question to the
6 expertise that could give you the answer, which
7 would be the drainage director.
8 Q. Isn't it a fact that you had knowledge
9 before Hurricane Katrina that if the pumps were
10 turned off that would increase the likelihood
11 of flooding in Jefferson Parish on the east and
12 west bank?
13 A. I don't recall any document that was
14 presented to me stating that fact.
15 Q. But because of the prior problems that
16 you've had in the parish with flooding,
17 certainly you knew if the pumps were not
18 operating, there was a propensity for the
19 parish to flood in certain areas?
20 A. Relative to the events that you
21 mentioned, there is a propensity to flood with
22 full capacity.
23 Q. But you did know that without these
24 pumps operating, there was more of a propensity
25 for the parish to flood?

75
1 A. My experience is that rainfall of
2 undetermined amounts at unpredictable times can
3 create flooding in any area of the parish at
4 any time irregardless of a pumping capacity.
5 Q. That's why -- but that's why the parish
6 has pumps, to protect the parish from flooding;
7 is that right?
8 A. As best we can.
9 Q. Well, common sense would tell you that
10 the pumps are there for a reason; is that
11 right?
12 A. The pumps are there to give us as much
13 pumping capacity as we can to drain water from
14 the parish.
15 Q. If the pumps were turned off, that would
16 increase the likelihood of flooding, would it
17 not?
18 A. Well, again, that's an expertise level
19 that I would defer to experts, because you have
20 mentioned an event in 1995 that was a flood
21 event, irrespective of pumping capacity, that
22 flooded a great portion of the parish,
23 irrespective of pumping capacity. The question
24 seems to me to equate a certain level of
25 pumping capacity gives you protection against

76
1 flooding. That is not the experience that I
2 have.
3 Q. Is your answer then today that you don't
4 know?
5 A. We can be flooded at any time by a
6 rainfall event of a high intensity for a long
7 duration. We can be flooded at any time
8 irrespective of pumping capacity.
9 Q. Would you agree, though, the purpose of
10 pumps is to try to reduce the flooding?
11 A. Ma'am, that requires an expert answer.
12 The pumps are there to drain water from the
13 parish. Your question begs a correlation
14 between a certain amount of pumping capacity
15 that would then give you a protection level.
16 And, again, I refer back to the example you
17 gave me. The 1995 event, despite whatever
18 pumping capacity was in effect at that time,
19 great portions of the parish were flooded. So
20 I don't have the expertise to give you the
21 answer that you're asking, because it
22 correlates pumping capacity with a protection
23 level, a protection against flooding, and I
24 don't have the expertise to give you that
25 formula.
77
1 Q. Who would that have expertise?
2 A. That's a good question. I don't even
3 know that my drainage director would have that
4 question, but I would beg that question
5 possibly to the Corps of Engineers.
6 Q. Are you aware of the fact that in May of
7 1995 they had 15 to 18 inches of rain that fell
8 in Jefferson Parish, and on August 29th of 2005
9 only six to eight inches fell?
10 A. Those exact statistics, I do not recall.
11 I was mayor of Kenner during the 1995 event and
12 not on the parish council or parish president.
13 On the recent events, again, I would have
14 records in my administration that I could
15 forward to you to document the statistics
16 you're quoting.
17 Q. You're not telling us, as we sit here
18 today, that every time Jefferson Parish
19 experiences rainfall, there is going to be
20 flooding in the parish, are you?
21 A. The question that I answered earlier is
22 the best way I can answer these variations is
23 that the topography of the area impacted, the
24 amount of rain that falls, the duration over
25 which that amount of rain falls, those are all

78
1 independent factors that combined could create
2 a variety of different results.
3 Q. Do you know what the reservoir capacity
4 and cubic feet of the drainage canals is before
5 overflow occurs for the east and west bank?
6 A. I do not know that capacity; however, I
7 refer that to my drainage director, and we can
8 supply you the information that we have
9 regarding that.
10 Q. Did you have any knowledge before
11 Hurricane Katrina that in the absence of pumps
12 being operated, the drainage canals would fill
13 during a rain event and possibly overflow?
14 A. Again, I make reference to the fact that
15 drainage canals can overflow irregardless of
16 pumping capacity.
17 Q. Did you know before Hurricane Katrina
18 that even if a rainfall event exceeding pumping
19 capacity occurred, the amount of canal overflow
20 would be reduced, to some degree, by pumping,
21 such as that which occurred in May of 1995?
22 A. Again, pumping capacity reduces the
23 amount of water that falls in the parish.
24 Relating that to flooding is a formula that I
25 don't have the expertise to answer.

79
1 Q. You would refer us again to the drainage
2 canal superintendent?
3 A. Yes, ma'am. Drainage director, yes,
4 ma'am.
5 Q. Were you living in Jefferson Parish
6 before Hurricane Katrina during any tropical
7 storms and hurricanes?
8 A. I've lived in Jefferson Parish since the
9 early fifties.
10 Q. Can you name some of those tropical
11 storms and hurricanes that occurred during your
12 residence in Jefferson Parish? I'm referring
13 to a time before Hurricane Katrina.
14 A. I don't know the name of the storm that
15 would have come, I don't recall it, in the
16 early fifties. I was a small child at the
17 time. There was one then. You are saying
18 tropical --
19 Q. Either a tropical storm or a hurricane.
20 A. I remember that was a hurricane of some
21 type. I don't remember the name of it. As you
22 would have gotten to more modern times,
23 certainly we -- Betsy was one that I remember,
24 in the sixties. That was probably the biggest
25 hurricane that hit us before Katrina. In

80
1 between Betsy and Katrina, you had a number of
2 different varieties of storms that came into
3 our area, whether they were direct hits or
4 whether they were of smaller magnitude. Juan,
5 Francis. You know, those are names that come
6 to mind. I'm sure if you gave me other names
7 of storms, I could tell you if I recollected
8 them.
9 Q. Did you know from observing the prior
10 storms or the ones that you did actually
11 observe, that heavy hurricane rainfall was
12 associated with the passage of feeder bands?
13 A. Well, again, from an experience
14 standpoint, I don't know that I, certainly, in
15 my youth, would have correlated those things.
16 In my adulthood, you'd basically hear reports
17 on radios that would try to forecast each
18 individual storm's impact on the area as best
19 they could. The term "feeder bands" is a
20 scientific term. I don't know the exact
21 definition of that scientifically.
22 Q. But you know what they are?
23 A. I know that as a hurricane or a storm
24 approaches, if it's in a circular fashion, that
25 there are different impacts that a hurricane

81
1 can have at different stages of its approach
2 and different stages of its landfall. And the
3 various scientific things that are incorporated
4 within that storm, whether it be called feeder
5 bands or -- I've heard tornados. I've heard
6 microbursts. There is a number of different
7 terminologies there, but I'm not learned in
8 those scientific definitions.
9 Q. Do you know from observing the storms
10 that you did observe and from your knowledge of
11 feeder bands that there are intervals of
12 diminished rainfall between the feeder bands?
13 A. I know in an eye of a hurricane you have
14 the reduction of effects in the eye of a
15 hurricane. Again, I don't have an educated
16 grasp of feeder bands and their impacts in a
17 hurricane.
18 Q. This particular Jefferson Parish
19 Catastrophic Weather Event, also referred to as
20 the Doomsday Plan, do you know when it was
21 actually placed in operation?
22 A. Again, it was prior to my
23 administration, so I do not know the exact
24 date. I think earlier I gave you what I
25 remember being told as a year of 1998. Again,

82
1 I could stand corrected on that. It wasn't
2 during my administration.
3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
5 (BRIEF RECESS)
6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
8 BY MS. JACOBS:
9 Q. Mr. Broussard, I believe you testified
10 previously that in 1998 you were on the city
11 council; is that correct?
12 A. No.
13 Q. The parish council?
14 A. Yes, ma'am.
15 Q. What was your position on the parish
16 council?
17 A. Council chairman.
18 Q. How long did you hold that position, in
19 other words, from what date to what date?
20 A. Approximately 1995 to the very beginning
21 of 2004.
22 Q. What were your duties as council
23 president?
24 A. Basically, my tasks were to run the
25 meetings and conduct the meetings in an orderly

83
1 fashion and to vote on issues that came before
2 the council and to sign contracts that the
3 council had approved.
4 Q. Is it fair to say that as council
5 president, you had a very good knowledge of
6 what was going on in the parish?
7 A. So we don't confuse the people that read
8 this, it would be council chairman. Kenner
9 does have a council president. I think New
10 Orleans has a council president. It's a little
11 confusing, but our title under the charter was
12 council chairman.
13 Q. Is it fair to say as council chairman
14 you had a very good knowledge of what was going
15 on in the parish?
16 A. On the legislative side of the equation,
17 as I testified earlier, the charter defines
18 what the legislative side responsibilities are
19 and what the administrative side is. On the
20 legislative side, as chairman and one of eight
21 councilmen, I enumerated fairly generally what
22 my primary responsibilities were.
23 Q. You also testified, I believe, that the
24 Doomsday Plan that you have before you was
25 approved in 1998?
84
1 A. That is my best recollection of what was
2 told me of approximately 1998.
3 Q. Was it approved by the parish council?
4 A. No, ma'am, not to my knowledge or
5 recollection was it approved by the parish
6 council.
7 Q. You're saying that it was never
8 presented to the council of Jefferson Parish?
10 recollection.
11 Q. Do you know who drafted the Doomsday
12 Plan?
14 Q. Do you know who approved it?
16 Q. Even as you sit here today, after the
17 fact, have you made any attempts to find out
18 that information?
19 A. To the best of the knowledge I have been
20 present, it was a plan that was drafted in
21 approximately 1998. I do not know the people
22 that drafted it. As far as the approval
23 process, I'm not sure that's the appropriate
24 terminology of approval process. I don't know
25 what was done in 1998 that crystallized this

85
1 plan as the plan of action. I don't have
2 personal knowledge of it.
3 Q. After the fact, after Hurricane Katrina,
4 did you make any attempts to find out why this
5 particular plan was never presented to the
6 parish council?
7 A. No, ma'am, Except to the extent that
8 these plans, I don't think, go before the
9 parish council for approval.
10 Q. Sitting on the city council in 1998, I
11 think you said between 1995 and 2004, would you
12 agree that one of the biggest threats facing
13 Jefferson Parish would be a hurricane?
14 A. It certainly would be one of the
15 biggest; although, I'll tell you that rain
16 events have caused a tremendous amount of
17 damage at different times to the parish as
18 well.
19 Q. Wouldn't you agree that a major
20 hurricane would be one of the biggest threats
21 facing Jefferson?
22 A. It certainly would be one of the
23 biggest.
24 Q. As council chairman, didn't you, as
25 council chairman, ask for the implementation of

86
1 a Doomsday Plan that the parish could implement
2 when you were actually on the parish council in
3 the event of an emergency, such as a Category
4 3,4, or 5 hurricane?
5 A. As I understand your question, the
6 answer would be no.
7 Q. Why not?
8 A. That plan was never presented to the
9 council for review or approval.
10 Q. Did you ever call for the creation of
11 such a plan?
12 A. No, ma'am.
13 Q. Is there any reason why you didn't?
14 A. It wasn't presented to the council as an
15 issue that we had to debate, deliberate, or
16 vote on.
17 Q. Well, whether it was presented to the
18 council or not, certainly, as you sit here
19 today, you would agree that the council should
20 have a plan to protect the citizens of the
21 parish, wouldn't you agree to that?
22 A. The parish has a plan. The council
23 votes on issues as they're presented to us by
24 the administration or as they are triggered by
25 some action by a citizen, whether it be a

87
1 resubdivision plan or a rezoning plan or some
2 ordinance that's meant to address a law that we
3 have in place or an amendment. Those are
4 typically the things that come before the
5 council. Emergency preparedness has always
6 fallen on the administrative side of the
7 equation, and, typically, in the office of
8 emergency preparedness.
9 Q. But the fact that you were council
10 chairman, weren't you curious as to whether or
11 not such a plan existed?
12 A. There were several hurricane events and
13 tropical storm events that I know that the
14 administration dealt with during those periods
15 of time, but, to be honest with you, there
16 wasn't really a functional role for the council
17 chairman or any of the councilmen to
18 participate in reaction to a storm event,
19 tropical or otherwise.
20 Q. Would you agree that the Doomsday Plan
21 is a crucial and critical plan?
22 A. Well, I would acknowledge that it was
23 the plan that was in place at the time that
24 Katrina hit.
25 Q. How could so crucial or critical of a

88
1 plan such as the Doomsday Plan never be
2 approved by the parish council?
3 A. I don't have the answer for that.
4 Q. How could the parish council never have
5 a copy of such a plan?
7 Q. Was this an oversight?
9 Q. Are you telling us today under oath that
10 a bureaucrat could actually devise a plan which
11 called for evacuations of critical personnel
12 without council knowing about it?
13 A. Yes, ma'am.
14 Q. As council chairman for nine years and
15 as parish president for a year before Hurricane
16 Katrina, how could you be so completely
17 ignorant of the Doomsday Plan?
18 A. The plan was never presented to the
19 council in any form or fashion.
20 Q. Is the entire Doomsday Plan contained on
21 one-and-a-half pages? That's the plan that you
22 presented to us, or is this a shortened
23 version?
24 A. Ma'am, to my knowledge, this is the only
25 pages that contain the Doomsday Plan, is what

89
1 we've entered into the record here today.
2 Q. Do you know if significant rainfall is
3 predicted, which presents a flood risk for
4 Jefferson Parish, is the Doomsday plan going to
5 be implemented?
6 A. Well, in simply reading the prologue,
7 apparently this plan is triggered by a forecast
8 from the National Weather Service/National
9 Hurricane Center of a Category 4 or greater
10 hurricane making landfall within the
11 metropolitan area. This speaks specifically
12 about a hurricane and not rain event.
13 Q. Does this particular Doomsday Plan
14 provide that the drainage pumps are to be
15 turned on in the event of a hurricane?
16 A. In reading this earlier, again, I don't
17 recall seeing any reference to mechanical
18 operations regarding any of the departments as
19 far as operation of machinery.
20 Q. Now, looking back at that plan, which
21 I've marked for purposes of identification as
22 B-1, let's look at the second paragraph. It
23 says, "Personnel: All activated Jefferson
24 Parish emergency personnel under the direct
25 authority of the parish president." It's got

90
1 in parentheses, "(Jefferson Parish Employees),
2 will immediately evacuate to the Jefferson
3 Parish Employee Shelter at Mount Hermon High
4 School in Mount Hermon, Louisiana." So you're
5 telling us that you had no knowledge that
6 people actually working under your direction or
7 control was supposed to evacuate? You had no
8 knowledge until after the fact?
9 A. That's correct. As far as the pump, you
10 asked me about pump operators specifically.
11 Now you're saying any personal?
12 Q. I'm reading the plan. Reading this
13 plan, it says, "Personnel: All activated
14 Jefferson Parish Emergency Personnel under the
15 direct authority of the Parish President." You
16 were the parish president when Hurricane
17 Katrina struck. "Will immediately evacuate to
18 the Jefferson Parish Employee Shelter at Mount
19 Hermon."
20 A. I had never seen this plan before
21 Katrina. Never read this paragraph and saw
22 this plan after the fact.
23 Q. It's correct that in fact they did not
24 evacuate to the Mount Hermon High School in
25 Mount Hermon, Louisiana, because that was full?

91
1 A. No. I will tell you that my
2 recollection is, and you can request this
3 information as far as the numbers of people,
4 that there were personnel that stayed at Mount
5 Hermon. It's just that Mount Hermon, as I
6 recall, was occupied by a number of people at
7 the time that this caravan of equipment and
8 personnel arrived, and so it did not have the
9 capacity to hold the entire number of evacuated
10 Jefferson Parish employees. So there were
11 numbers of the employees that had to seek
12 alternative shelters, because Mount Hermon did
13 not have the capacity to house the entire
14 contingency of parish employees and equipment.
15 So I do believe there were a number of our
16 personnel that stayed at Mount Hermon.
17 Q. Is there a way that the drainage pumps
18 can be turned on, in other words, actually
19 switched on, and someone evacuate the pumps, a
20 pump operator evacuate the pumps?
21 A. That answer should be given by an
22 expert. I would defer you to our drainage
23 director who can give you answers to the
24 mechanical functionality of the pumps and other
25 aspects of the pumping station.

92
1 Q. You would agree, now reviewing this
2 plan, that there are a lot of things in this
3 plan which begs the question; is that correct?
4 A. I've completely revised our entire
5 emergency operations plan. I assigned my staff
6 to revise and create a new plan since Katrina.
7 Q. When was that done? Has it been
8 completed?
9 A. Yes, ma'am. It was done over a period
10 of many months. It involved public input.
11 After each phase was drafted, we released it to
12 the press. We released it to civic groups and
13 business groups, asking for their input.
14 Again, it was released to the media so the
15 general public would have an opportunity to
16 comment on aspects of it.
17 MS. JACOBS:
18 Dennis, I'd like call for production
19 of that particular plan, the revised plan.
20 MR. PHAYER:
21 Okay.
22 BY MS. JACOBS:
23 Q. Referring to this plan, the Doomsday
24 Plan, marked B-1, you would agree that a lot of
25 the issues in this plan are not defined?

93
1 A. This plan makes reference to Appendage
2 A. I don't know if there is other appendages,
3 but I'm sure that we can provide all the
4 information from our emergency preparedness
5 office as to where other definitions may lie
6 that, in connection with this plan, give a more
7 comprehensive interpretation of this plan.
8 Q. You don't know who wrote the plan?
9 A. I don't know specifically who wrote the
10 plan.
11 Q. You don't know who approved the plan?
12 A. I don't know who specifically approved
13 the plan, no, ma'am, as we speak.
14 Q. As you sit here today, having read the
15 plan, would you have approved of this plan?
16 A. I don't know.
17 Q. Well, you have a decision one way or
18 another. Reading the plan as it states on its
19 face.
20 A. I don't know. I know that after the
21 Katrina event that I initiated a modernization
22 of our plan, emergency preparedness plan, in
23 the face of major hurricanes, so I know what I
24 did do. I don't know what I would have done if
25 presented with this opportunity sooner. I

94
1 don't know the answer to that. I know what I
2 did do, but I don't know what I would have done
3 in a previous point in time.
4 Q. Would you have evacuated the pump
5 operators?
6 A. Again, I don't know the answer to that.
7 Q. When you found out on Sunday night that
8 the pump operators were evacuated, did you make
9 any attempts to call for volunteers or the
10 National Guard or anybody else to come in and
11 operate those pumping stations, knowing that
12 the actual pump operators had been evacuated?
13 A. You're saying the National Guard. No,
14 ma'am, I did not ask for the National Guard.
15 Q. What about sheriff's deputies?
16 A. I did not request any sheriff's deputies
17 to operate the stations, no, ma'am.
18 Q. Did you ask for any volunteer pump
19 operators to come in and operate the stations?
20 A. No, ma'am. I did not do that, no,
21 ma'am.
22 Q. Did you know actually that there are
23 some operators who say they would have
24 volunteered to operate those stations?
25 A. I recall that being said in the

95
1 newspaper. I don't recall the names or the
2 stations that were assigned, and I don't know
3 that for a fact, other than the fact that I
4 recall reading that in the newspaper.
5 Q. You did not ask for volunteers?
6 A. No, ma'am.
7 Q. You said that this Catastrophic Weather
8 Event Doomsday Plan was changed by you. How
9 was it changed? What changes did you make to
10 the plan?
11 A. In essence, I will let the new plan
12 speak for itself. It's a very comprehensive
13 plan. It goes into a lot of detail about every
14 facet of emergency preparedness. I think the
15 best way to answer that question is simply to
16 evidence the comparison of the two documents
17 themselves and let that comparison speak for
18 itself.
19 Q. Are hurricane rainfall preparations
20 different from non-hurricane rainfall events in
21 the plan?
22 A. You are talking about the Doomsday Plan?
23 Q. Yes, B-1.
24 A. In reference to an earlier question,
25 this plan is couched in terms of a forecast

96
1 from the National Weather Service or the
2 National Hurricane Center of a Category 4 or
3 greater hurricane. In the prologue, it doesn't
4 say that this plan is triggered by an
5 anticipated rain event.
6 Q. Is the Doomsday Plan a separate
7 emergency plan for a landfalling Category 4 or
8 5 hurricane?
9 A. On its face, it appears to be a plan
10 that's designated for initiation when a
11 confirmed forecast from the National Weather
12 Service or the National Hurricane Center is
13 generated of a Category 4 or greater hurricane.
14 Q. Is the only thing that triggers the
15 Doomsday Plan, referred to as B-1, a Category 4
16 or greater hurricane making landfall within the
17 metropolitan region?
18 A. It says a confirmed forecast from the
19 National Weather Service or the National
20 Hurricane Center of a Category 4 or greater
21 making landfall within the metropolitan region.
22 Q. It's correct, as you sit here today,
23 that no one from the National Weather Service
24 or the National Hurricane Center actually
25 confirmed that a Hurricane 4 or greater

97
1 hurricane would make landfall within the
3 A. I don't have a recollection of who that
4 person might be or exactly what the statements
5 were by the National Weather Service or the
6 National Hurricane Center were on an
7 incremental basis, but, as I mentioned earlier
8 in the deposition, that whatever records we
9 have, you're welcome to, of the notices that we
10 got from the weather service. They were
11 releasing these weather service notices. They
12 were releasing these to the media as well as to
13 agencies of impacted areas, so there could
14 easily be a trail I could provide you with.
15 Q. I'm not asking for a trail. I'm asking
16 you what you remember. You are under oath. Do
17 you remember anybody from the National Weather
18 Service or the National Hurricane Center
19 telling you that a Category 4 or greater
20 hurricane would make landfall within the
22 A. Telling me? No.
23 Q. Telling you.
24 A. No, ma'am, other than what I said
25 earlier. Other than any statements that would

98
1 have been made during the conference calls that
2 we had with all the agencies present. It would
3 not have been just telling me personally. I'm
4 interpreting your question as telling me
5 personally. I don't recall any personal
6 conversation in which a phone call was made to
7 me personally or a discussion was made to me
8 personally. There were a number of reports
9 that were going out to the media. There were a
10 number of reports going out to all the state
11 agencies, all affected parishes in two states.
12 These conferences that I recall had Mississippi
13 officials involved in them as well. An exact
14 recollection at this moment in time, I don't
15 have, but I do recall generally that the
16 anticipation of this hurricane was to a
17 Category 5 level.
18 Q. Who can you refer us to, to say that you
19 have a general recollection, or who gave you
20 that recollection that it would be a Category 5
21 hurricane that would be making landfall?
22 A. That would have been my general
23 recollection of both the media reports and the
24 conference calls that were held with the
25 National Weather Service and the various state

99
1 and local and regional agencies.
2 Q. How does a confirmed forecast differ
3 from a forecast?
4 A. You have to ask the author of the plan
5 their intent in using that word.
6 Q. Harry Lee was the sheriff of Jefferson
7 Parish at the time of Hurricane Katrina?
8 A. Yes, ma'am.
9 Q. Did his deputies evacuate the parish?
10 A. I don't know or recollect Harry's
11 emergency preparedness plan. I knew there were
12 deputies that were in the parish. I don't know
13 how many. I don't know how many evacuated. I
14 don't know how many stayed. I don't know the
15 criteria that the sheriff used in making that
16 determination.
17 Q. Did you ever check with Harry Lee to see
18 whether or not he could have housed the pump
19 operators in the event they stayed to ride out
21 A. I did not.
22 Q. Do you know if anyone else did?
23 A. No, ma'am.
24 Q. Such as Mr. Maestri or anyone else?
25 A. I don't know if he did or didn't.

100
1 Q. Now, does this Doomsday Plan --
2 A. I'm not referring to the new plan I
3 developed as the Doomsday Plan.
4 Q. I'm referring to the B-1.
5 A. I'm sorry. I thought you said the new.
6 Q. No. Doomsday. That's what it's called.
7 Referring to B-1, does there exist a timeline
8 for implementing the Doomsday Plan, this
9 particular plan?
10 A. As I mentioned earlier, if you look at
11 the full context of the emergency preparedness
12 plans, it might give you a broader interpreta-
13 tion of other aspects of the plan that are not
14 included here. This is the plan that I was
15 shown after the fact, and this is the plan that
16 I referred to.
17 Q. So it's correct then, looking at B-1,
18 that there is no timeline for implementing the
19 hurricane emergency plan?
20 A. Well, under Personnel, it says all
21 activated parish emergency personnel under the
22 direct authority of the parish president,
23 Jefferson Parish employees, will immediately
24 evacuate. It talks about evacuating to Mount
25 Hermon. Up above it says, based on a confirmed

101
1 forecast from the National Weather Service and
2 the National Hurricane Center of Category 4 or
3 greater hurricane making landfall within the
4 metropolitan region, the following plan will be
5 implemented immediately. So "immediately" is
6 used twice. So, as far as a time triggering,
7 it says upon that confirmation mentioned above,
8 4 or greater, the plan is implemented
9 immediately, it says, and then it says that all
10 personnel, all emergency, all activated
11 Jefferson Parish emergency personnel under the
12 direct authority of the parish president will
13 immediately evacuate to the Jefferson Parish
14 employee shelter at Mount Hermon. The word
15 "immediately" is used twice.
16 So the timeline that's referred to
17 here is an immediate triggering. It's
18 triggered by a confirmation of a Category 4 or
19 greater, and then immediately you evacuate all
20 parish emergency personnel to Mount Hermon. So
21 that's the timeline that's outlined here. It's
22 an immediate timeline.
23 Q. Does B-1, the Doomsday Plan, state when
24 the pump operators are supposed to come back
25 into the parish following a hurricane?

102
1 A. I don't see a reference to a return to
2 the parish by emergency personnel. I don't see
3 a reference in this plan as to a timeline for
4 that.
5 Q. Is there a procedure to block the
6 interconnected drainage canals in order to
7 prevent flooding or did one exist at the time
8 of Hurricane Katrina?
9 A. I want to make sure I understand this
10 question, so I'm going to ask you to say it
11 again for me, and I'll --
12 Q. Was there a procedure to block the
13 interconnected drainage canals? You said that
14 drainage canals were interconnected.
15 A. Yes, ma'am. They're integrated.
16 Q. Was there any procedure that existed at
17 the time of Hurricane Katrina to actually
18 blocked these drainage canals in order to
19 prevent flooding? Did they have gates or
20 whatever?
21 A. Within our interconnected canals, there
22 are no established gates, that I'm aware of,
23 other than the gate that was just created at
24 the Harvey Canal.
25 Q. I am talking about at the time of

103
1 Hurricane Katrina.
2 A. No, ma'am. You're talking as part of an
3 emergency preparedness plan?
4 Q. No. Did you have any procedure to block
5 the interconnected drainage canals in order to
6 prevent flooding at the time of Hurricane
7 Katrina?
8 A. I don't know of a plan. I'm not aware
9 of a plan that blocks canals to prevent
10 flooding. I know that during construction of
11 canal work, you could have some construction
12 works that are put in place in order to give
13 the construction crews the ability to complete
14 their improvements to a canal system, but
15 that's not in connection with a flood
16 protection plan that I'm aware of.
17 Q. As you sit here today, at the time of
18 Hurricane Katrina, you did not know whether or
19 not there was any method that could have been
20 used to block canals to prevent the migration
21 of floodwaters through the canal system?
22 A. I'm not aware of such a system being
23 employed by our emergency planning department
24 or our drainage department, except in those
25 rare instances when construction work is going

104
1 on.
2 Q. Who is responsible now for making the
3 judgment call to evacuate essential pumping
4 operators in the event of an emergency?
5 A. That would all be under the office of
7 Q. Now, who is responsible for making that
8 decision?
9 A. Kenny Pagent is the director of
10 emergency preparedness, so the implementation
11 of these plans would fall to the department of
13 Q. Do you know where Mr. Maestri is now?
14 A. No, I don't.
15 Q. When he retired, did he leave the
16 parish?
17 A. I don't know that. I don't know the
18 answer to that.
19 Q. Did he take another job?
20 A. I think initially he had intended to go
21 to the state. That's what he told me upon his
22 retirement, that he had an opportunity to work
23 for the State of Louisiana, and then he
24 retired. I don't believe he got the
25 opportunity to work with the state following

105
1 retirement, and, to the best of my
2 recollection, he is doing consulting work of
3 some type.
4 Q. Can you tell us who was the head of
5 emergency preparedness in 1998?
6 A. My recollection is Walter Maestri.
7 Q. How long has he held that post?
9 Q. As you sit here today, you don't know
10 whether or not the order to evacuate the pump
11 operators in advance of Hurricane Katrina was
12 subject to any supervision or oversight?
13 A. As I mentioned to you earlier, I don't
14 know who made that implementation of the plan
15 and the timeline in which they did. I've
16 testified to that earlier.
17 Q. Do you know how long before the arrival
18 of Hurricane Katrina were the pump operators
19 evacuated?
20 A. I don't have an exact recollection of
21 that. I think I've mentioned to you earlier
22 that I was told sometime Sunday night before
23 the hurricane hit on that Monday morning.
24 Q. Did you tell Mr. Maestri that you did
25 not approve of that judgment call?

106
1 A. Mr. Maestri was not in my presence at
2 that time. No, ma'am, I did not tell him.
3 Q. Did you tell anyone that you did not
4 approve of that judgment call?
5 A. No, ma'am. I did not get into the
6 merits of that plan, other than to ask the
7 question that I told you I asked before about
8 were the canals pumped down and were the
9 screens cleared of debris.
10 Q. In reviewing the plan, referring to B-1,
11 you would agree that this plan does not state
12 when the pump operators were to return?
13 A. I don't see a reference to a return
14 schedule.
15 Q. Isn't it correct that the flooding
16 actually did not happen during Katrina but
17 actually happened after Hurricane Katrina?
18 A. I've seen no evidence of that or
19 scientific findings in that regard.
20 Q. Were pump operators were ordered to
21 evacuate in stages?
22 A. I do not know the answer to that.
23 Q. Do you know if anyone remained on duty
24 to operate the pumping stations?
25 A. I'm not aware of any that did, but I

107
1 don't know the answer to that question, but I'm
2 not aware of anyone that did.
3 Q. Did anyone give the order to the pump
4 operators to take out the fuses and disconnect
5 the switches so that the pumping stations could
6 not be turned on?
7 A. I'm not aware of such an order.
8 Q. You've never heard that?
9 A. No, ma'am.
10 Q. When you found out that the pump
11 operators had been evacuated, did you ask
12 anyone, Mr. Maestri or anyone, why they did not
13 consult with you or the parish council before
14 making that decision?
15 A. I asked the basis of the evacuation of
16 the pump operators and was told it was part of
17 the plan, the emergency preparedness plan.
18 Q. Who told you that?
19 A. Mr. Whitmer.
20 Q. I believe you previously stated that you
21 don't know if the pumping stations have
22 automatic controls to operate in the event
23 there is no operator present?
24 A. What I said was that the best person to
25 ask that question to would be the drainage

108
1 director as far as the functionality of the
2 pumps and the connected apparatuses to the
3 pumps.
4 Q. Do you know if any of the pumping
5 stations were actually left running on
6 automatic during Hurricane Katrina?
7 A. I don't know if they have that capacity,
8 and I'm not aware of any that were in that
9 condition. I'm not aware of it.
10 Q. Are the east bank pumping stations at
11 the Lakefront secured to prevent storm surge
12 backflow from the lake into the canals?
13 A. There are various methodologies that are
14 at different pump stations that are capable of
15 addressing backflow. There are also a number
16 of projects that the Corps is undertaking
17 presently to provide backflow prevention and
18 permanent backflow prevention.
19 Q. At what lake height above sea level
20 would the storm surge backflow be prevented?
21 A. I don't have the answer to that. I
22 would defer that to the Corps of Engineers. My
23 drainage director may have some knowledge of
24 that, but the Corps would be the best source of
25 that answer.
109
1 Q. Do you know if the west bank pumping
2 stations are secured to prevent storm surge
3 backflow from the lake into the canals?
4 A. I assume all these questions are at the
5 time of Katrina?
6 Q. Right. All of them are at the time of
7 Katrina.
8 A. Again, the same question would be
9 answered the same way as I did previously about
10 the east bank stations. Each station would
11 have different methodology capabilities, and
12 different potential for protection against
13 backflow.
14 Q. Other than the Doomsday Plan, which has
15 been marked for purposes of identification as
16 B-1, do you know if there existed any other
17 catastrophic weather event plan at the time of
19 A. Not to my knowledge. Not that I've been
20 shown.
21 Q. Is there any such plan, such as an
22 ordinary hurricane plan, one that would not
23 reach Category 4 significance?
24 A. My assumption is, in the emergency
25 preparedness documents, you will find different

110
1 scenarios for various types of emergencies,
2 whether they be storm or whether they be toxic
3 contamination issues. You would find a host of
4 different plans for different scenarios.
5 Q. Are those in writing?
6 A. They should be.
7 Q. You told us about learning that the
8 personnel had been evacuated Sunday night. Do
9 you actually know when, prior to Hurricane
10 Katrina, that they began implementing the
11 hurricane preparedness plan?
12 A. No, ma'am.
13 Q. Was it actually before Sunday night or
14 just Sunday night?
15 A. I'm not aware of the time that
16 implementation of that plan began.
17 Q. Did you ever check with weather bureau
18 officials to see how much rainfall was actually
19 expected from Hurricane Katrina?
20 A. I never personally initiated those
21 contacts. Again, as I mentioned earlier, we
22 got updates at regularly scheduled conference
23 calls from the weather service.
24 Q. What was the prediction that you
25 received as to the amount of rainfall that was

111
1 expected for Hurricane Katrina?
2 A. I didn't receive any prediction
3 personally about rainfall. I don't recall of a
4 prediction, exact prediction, of rainfall at
5 this time. I don't have an independent
6 recollection of that.
7 Q. Did you check with the weather bureau
8 officials to see how high the wind velocity of
9 Hurricane Katrina would be at landfall in
10 Jefferson Parish?
11 A. I did not personally check with the
12 weather service. Again, some of that
13 information would have been provided at
14 conference calls.
15 Q. Do you recall anyone providing that
16 information to you?
17 A. Other than through the conference calls
18 or forecasts provided by the National Weather
19 Service, I did not have any independent contact
20 with the National Weather Service, other than
21 the fact that they would give updates to the
22 governments and the media simultaneously at
23 periodic times during each day.
24 Q. Sunday night, when you were told or
25 informed that the pump operators were going to

112
1 be evacuated, did you fear, as Hurricane
2 Katrina approached, that if there was a lot of
3 rain that fell in Jefferson Parish, large areas
4 of Jefferson Parish would be flooded?
5 A. I don't recall saying anything other
6 than what I've already testified that I said,
7 which was making questions about the state of
8 the pumping stations at the time that the
9 essential personnel was evacuated.
10 Q. Did you realize that if the pumps were
11 shut down this would increase the flooding
12 threat in Jefferson Parish?
13 A. As I mentioned earlier in response to
14 previous questions, that question assumes there
15 is a correlation between pumping capacity and
16 flood prevention, and I am not an expert to
17 give you that answer as to that formula.
18 Q. After you had learned Sunday night that
19 the pump operators were going to be evacuated,
20 did you have a meeting with anyone or any
21 members of the parish council to discuss this
22 fact?
23 A. No, ma'am. As I said before, the parish
24 council is not a named body that is involved in
25 the decision making of emergency preparedness.

113
1 Q. Did you have a meeting with anyone to
2 discuss it?
3 A. To discuss the fact that this plan was
4 implemented?
5 Q. The fact that you had learned Sunday
6 night that the pump operators had been
7 evacuated with an impending storm coming.
8 A. None, other than the discussion with Mr.
9 Whitmer.
10 Q. Did you call the governor's office and
11 ask her to provide armed services personnel for
12 you or National Guard personnel for you who
13 maybe would be able to operate the pumps?
14 A. No, ma'am. I think that question was
15 asked previously, and my answer is no.
16 Q. Did anyone recommend that cause of
17 action to you?
18 A. No, ma'am.
19 Q. Do you recall whether or not you
20 consumed any alcoholic beverages on Sunday or
21 Monday?
22 A. I can answer emphatically no, nor do I
23 recall -- I know I did not consume any
24 alcoholic beverage.
25 Q. Were you on any medications at that

114
1 time?
2 A. Other than the two I mentioned earlier,
3 the Allopurinol for gout and Vytorin for
4 cholesterol. To be honest with you, I don't
5 think I took those medications with me when I
6 left the house.
7 Q. Did you yourself leave Jefferson Parish
8 as Hurricane Katrina approached?
9 A. No, ma'am.
10 Q. You stayed?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Where did you stay?
13 A. I ended up staying at West Jefferson
14 Hospital.
15 Q. When did you arrive there?
16 A. I want to say it was sometime late
17 either -- I think I was after midnight, so it
18 had to be early Monday morning. In the
19 earliest hours of Monday, the day the storm
20 hit.
21 Q. Why did you wind up at the hospital?
22 A. Well, as I recall, the parish attorney
23 insisted that Mr. Whitmer and I not be in the
24 same building. The building that we were in
25 was not considered a building that could

115
1 withstand a Category 3 hurricane, much less a
2 stronger hurricane, so the safety of all was at
3 issue. The parish attorney insisted that we
4 separate. In case a tragedy befell one of us,
5 there would be another person that could assume
6 administration of all that needed to be done.
7 Q. How would the canal overflow be
8 controlled if the drainage pumps had to be
9 turned off?
10 A. I'm sorry. You want to repeat that
11 again?
12 Q. How could the canal overflow be
13 controlled if the drainage pumps were turned
14 off?
15 A. Again, a level of expertise would be
16 required to answer that question. I defer that
17 to my drainage director.
18 Q. Did you discuss that with anyone on
19 Sunday night when you learned that in fact the
20 drainage pumps were going to be turned off?
21 A. I think as part of my answer earlier I
22 mentioned to you that I asked were the canals
23 pumped to their lowest possible level. I was
24 told they were. I asked if the debris
25 collection system was cleared of debris, and so

116
1 in that respect, I asked if the canals had been
2 pumped to their lowest level, and Mr. Whitmer
3 said they had been.
4 Q. Was that the only thing that you asked?
5 A. Those were the questions that I recall,
6 yes, ma'am, at this time.
7 Q. When you realized that the pumps had
8 been turned off, wasn't it virtually certain
9 that tens of thousands of homes would flood
10 when drainage pump personnel were evacuated and
11 the pumping stopped?
12 A. Again, that question makes a correlation
13 between anticipated rainfall versus actual
14 rainfall. The variances of that are very
15 numerous. There was no correlation made in
16 that regard on my part, because a storm can
17 come at you at different ways and different
18 styles. You can have dry storms. You can have
19 wet storms. It really depends on the angle of
20 the way that storm hits you.
21 So, again, until the storm actually
22 hit you, trying to forecast the intensity of
23 rainfall, et cetera, is purely conjecture.
24 And, as I said earlier, I don't remember
25 getting specific -- I had no specific

117
1 conversation with anybody from the National
2 Weather Service talking about anticipated
3 rainfall updates on a time schedule of any
4 kind.
5 Q. But I believe you stated that you
6 thought it would be a Category 4 or 5 hurricane
7 that was coming to Jefferson Parish. Wasn't
8 that your testimony?
9 A. My recollection is that's how it was
10 being presented, both by meteorologists in the
11 media, and that's how it was being presented by
12 the National Weather Service and the National
13 Hurricane Center. Those are my best
14 recollections.
15 Q. You had been told that the pump
16 operators were removed on Sunday?
17 A. I was told that Sunday night.
18 Q. Didn't you put two and two together to
19 realize if you had no pump operators, there was
20 a Category 4 or 5 hurricane coming, that you
21 could expect heavy rainfall, and that there
22 would be heavy flooding in the parish?
23 A. I was told about the evacuation after
24 the fact. Your question, I think, begs a
25 correlation between the two.

118
1 Q. What time Sunday night did you learn
2 that?
3 A. As I said earlier, I don't recall the
4 exact time. It was after the employees had in
5 fact evacuated the parish.
6 Q. Were you in conversations with the
7 governor?
8 A. Well, we were together the day before
9 when I announced the citizen evacuation order.
10 She had flown in by helicopter at that time.
11 After that point in time, I don't recall
12 conversations that I had with the governor
13 prior to Katrina. There were a lot of
14 discussions after Katrina with the governor's
15 office, obviously, when we had communication
16 that was working. Before, I think was that day
17 when she stood with myself and parish
18 presidents from Plaquemines and St. Bernard in
19 announcing jointly a citizen evacuation on that
20 Saturday.
21 Q. But you did have a line of communication
22 that was in effect with the governor's office
23 on Sunday; is that correct? In other words, if
24 you wanted to get in touch with the governor,
25 you could have gotten in touch with the

119
1 governor?
2 A. I don't know the answer to that, because
3 certainly, after Katrina, I tried to get in
4 touch with --
5 Q. I'm talking about Sunday night.
6 A. I don't know the answer to that. Could
7 I have reached the governor if I wanted to
8 reach the governor? I don't know the answer to
9 that.
10 Q. Did you try?
11 A. I don't recall talking to the governor
12 on Sunday night. I do not recall it.
13 Q. When you learned that the pump operators
14 were evacuated, and you realized that you could
15 have flooding in the parish, it's correct that
16 you had no -- you didn't even conceive of an
17 alternate plan to attempt to save the parish
18 from flooding? You made no attempt to go call
19 the governor or get anybody else to man those
20 stations?
21 A. I made no call to the governor, and
22 that's what I can tell you at this point.
23 MS. JACOBS:
24 Is this a good time to break?
120
2 (LUNCHEON RECESS.)
3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
5 BY MS. JACOBS:
6 Q. Mr. Broussard, back to B-1, which is the
7 Jefferson Parish Catastrophic Weather Event
8 Doomsday Plan that was in operation at the time
9 of the Hurricane Katrina.
10 A. Yes, ma'am.
11 Q. As I look beyond the second paragraph,
12 it lists chief administrative assistant, parish
13 attorney, the emergency manager, et cetera,
14 chief of operations. Do you see that long list
15 of titles?
16 A. Yes, ma'am.
17 Q. Is it correct that as parish president
18 you were actually over those particular
19 agencies?
20 A. Yes, ma'am.
21 Q. So you had the power to direct them; is
22 that correct?
23 A. Yes, ma'am.
24 Q. Would you have had the power to direct
25 them prior to or during Hurricane Katrina, as

121
1 parish president?
2 A. As parish president, I was over all
3 parish employees.
4 Q. But particularly these people?
5 A. Yes, ma'am.
6 Q. Listed in Paragraph 2?
7 A. Yes, ma'am.
8 Q. Turning to the second page of the
9 Doomsday Plan, once again, the second paragraph
10 says, "Public Announcement: In coordination
11 with the other parishes in the region, the
12 implementation of the catastrophic plan will be
13 announced to the general public by the parish
14 president." Have I read that correctly?
15 A. Yes, ma'am. That's what it says.
16 Q. It also says, "The announcement will
17 document the risk to the area, the steps which
18 the parish has taken and is taking to meet the
19 risk and the implementation of the catastrophic
20 plan."
21 A. Yes, ma'am. It says that.
22 Q. I read that correctly?
23 A. Yes, ma'am.
24 Q. Did you at any time make a public
25 announcement to the citizens of Jefferson

122
1 regarding the Doomsday Plan?
2 A. I was never presented the Doomsday Plan
3 to announce to the public or the facets of this
4 catastrophic plan. As I've testified earlier,
5 I never saw this plan until after Katrina,
6 therefore, the announcements that I made to the
7 public were relating to both evacuation orders
8 of the general citizens and as to precautions
9 and preparations that they needed to take. Any
10 other announcements that I made should be
11 either recorded through the media or whatever
12 remnants of those announcements that we would
13 have had still in our public record.
14 Q. It's correct, also, that to the best of
15 your knowledge, no one else made a public
16 announcement regarding the implementation of
17 the catastrophic plan to the general public?
18 A. Not to my knowledge.
19 Q. So it's correct that you did not comply
20 with the provisions of the Doomsday Plan or the
21 Catastrophic Weather Event Doomsday Plan; is
22 that correct?
23 A. I was not provided a copy of this plan
24 to announce to the general public in accordance
25 with this plan.

123
1 Q. It is correct that the general public,
2 or the citizens of Jefferson, were never
3 informed that the pumps were not in operation
4 at the time that Hurricane Katrina came on
5 landfall?
6 A. I do not recall any such announcement
7 being made.
8 Q. When you learned on Sunday evening that
9 the pump operators had been evacuated, you did
10 not tell any of the citizens of Jefferson
11 Parish that they had been evacuated and that
12 the pumps would not be operating; is that
13 correct?
14 A. At that time, Sunday night, no, ma'am,
15 no announcements, I think, were made by us at
16 that time of night. The citizen evacuation
17 order was the day before. The essential
18 personnel, as I told you earlier, I was told
19 had evacuated the parish, and there was no
20 other media announcements that I know that were
21 made that night, that I recall independently at
22 this time.
23 Q. So you yourself did not make any
24 announcements?
25 A. None that I recall, no, ma'am, of any

124
1 kind that I recall at that time, Sunday night.
2 Q. When you learned Sunday night that the
3 pumps were not going to be in operation, and
4 the pump operators had been evacuated, what
5 were you personally thinking? What did you
6 expect would happen as a result of that act?
7 A. I had no knowledge of the impact of
8 that, because, again, the storm was still in
9 progress, and there were different variations
10 of the storm that were still being tracked by
11 the Hurricane Weather Service, so there was no
12 way to calculate the effect of any one act as
13 to the ultimate effect of a hurricane that had
14 not yet hit the area.
15 Q. But you had to be expecting the fact
16 that there would be widespread flooding in
17 Jefferson Parish if the pumps were not
18 operating; is that correct?
19 A. Well, as I said earlier, no was the
20 answer. As I said earlier, to correlate
21 rainfall with pumping capacity is not an
22 expertise that I have the ability to respond
23 to. It assumes there is a formula, and I don't
24 know that formula.
25 Q. Are you telling us today that the

125
1 thought never crossed your mind, that there
2 would be widespread flooding if the pumps were
3 not operating? I mean, is that your testimony?
4 I'm trying to find out what your testimony is.
5 A. Ma'am, I don't recall the exact thoughts
6 that I had at exact times. It was a pretty
7 horrific time, as you can imagine, in preparing
8 for the advent of the way they were describing
9 that storm. I don't recall specific thoughts
10 that went through my mind at specific times.
11 Q. As you sit here today, do you agree that
12 the decision to remove the pump operators from
13 their stations resulted in widespread flooding
14 in Jefferson Parish?
15 A. I've seen no evidence of that. As I
16 said earlier, I've seen no scientific data that
17 documents that.
18 Q. Would you agree that if Hurricane
19 Katrina's rainfall never exceeded the parish's
20 hourly drainage pumping capacity, none of the
21 parish's canals would have overflowed?
22 A. Again, I can't attest to that, because
23 that would take an engineering expert, and it
24 would have to depend, as I said earlier, on
25 topography, the amount of the rainfall, and the

126
1 duration over which it fell.
2 Q. Would you agree that if the pumps had
3 not been turned off, residential and business
4 property flooding would have been reduced and
5 avoided?
6 A. I've seen no evidence of that.
7 Q. To paraphrase the ending of a Tale of
8 Two Cities, did the needs of so few outweigh
9 the interests of so many, that is, did the
10 needs of so few, referring to the pump
11 operators, outweigh the interests of the people
12 in Jefferson who flooded?
13 A. Pump operators were part of an overall
14 plan. Their evacuation was part of a plan that
15 was written prior to the advent of this storm.
16 That question presupposes that there was a
17 decision made at a particular time of the
18 hurricane's approach that weighed those things
19 out. They were incorporated into a body of
20 employees of an overall plan.
21 Q. As you sit here today, can you produce
22 any proof that the rainfall that followed
23 Hurricane Katrina ever exceeded the hourly
24 pumping capacity?
25 A. To the best of my recollection, the

127
1 SCADA System, which monitors that rainfall,
2 went out of operation sometime early Monday
3 morning. Whatever the record of the amount of
4 rainfall was at the time that system went out
5 should be available to you in our public
6 record, and I offer it to you.
7 Q. So you don't know what it is?
8 A. However -- No, not at that time.
9 However, you know, the rainfall consistently
10 fell throughout most of that day of Monday.
11 SCADA is how we monitor canal levels, et
12 cetera, and that system was rendered inoperable
13 by the storm early Monday morning, but you
14 certainly could have access to what it was
15 registering at the time the system went out.
16 Q. You said that you have seen no evidence
17 of the turning off of the pumps that caused the
18 flooding. Does that mean you've not seen any
19 scientific reports or is that your personal
20 opinion?
21 A. I just stick by my answer. I've seen no
22 evidence, reports, that correlated flooding to
23 pumping capacity.
24 Q. Do you realize that the rain stopped at
25 noon?
128
1 A. I don't know the exact time that it
2 stopped. I recall by seeing it, personally,
3 the torrential rainfalls that were consistent
4 throughout most of the day on Monday. I'm not
5 aware of the exact time that it stopped.
6 Q. How many drainage pump workers were
7 subject to the evacuation order?
8 A. I don't know that exact amount, but that
9 amount of people can be provided for you just
10 by requesting it here today.
11 Q. You're a defendant in several lawsuits,
12 is that correct, dealing with Hurricane
13 Katrina?
14 A. To my knowledge, yes.
15 Q. Have you read any of those lawsuits that
16 name you a defendant?
17 A. No, ma'am.
18 Q. Were you actually served with any of
19 these lawsuits?
20 A. I don't know exactly where the service
21 was. I don't remember being handed a suit
22 personally by any process server. My
23 assumption is that it was served somewhere in
24 the parish building and was forwarded to the
25 parish attorney's office upon service.

129
1 Q. Have you ever been a plaintiff or a
2 defendant in any other class action lawsuits?
3 A. I don't recall specifically. There was
4 -- well, certainly in my capacities, different
5 elected capacities, there could have been
6 lawsuits filed against the City of Kenner or
7 filed against the Parish of Jefferson in which
8 a class was certified. I don't recall it as we
9 speak.
10 I know that there was a suit
11 against the parish in regards to the 1995
12 flood, but I was not on the parish council or
13 in parish government at the time of that flood,
14 so I would not have been named then. I don't
15 recall any specifically. As far as a plaintiff
16 in a class action suit, there was a barge
17 explosion at American Cyanamid when I was mayor
18 of Kenner, and because I was one of the first
19 people on the scene, I was exposed to elements
20 of that explosion. I don't recall at all if
21 that was a class action or not.
22 Q. Did you file a suit?
23 A. I can't recall if a suit was filed.
24 There was a check that I received as a result
25 of that.
130
1 Q. Who was the lawyer?
2 A. I want to say it was Wendell Gauthier's
3 firm.
4 Q. Have you ever been a plaintiff in any of
5 Wendell's other suits?
6 A. Not that I recall. I don't recall if
7 that was a class action or not. I just don't.
8 Q. I'm sure if it was Wendell, it was a
9 class action.
10 A. I don't recall. I know I didn't go to
11 court. I didn't testify in a court of law as
12 regards to it.
13 Q. You said that you were not familiar with
14 the rainfall rate or the pumping rate. Would
15 you defer to an expert to give us that
16 information?
17 A. The drainage director can give you a
18 ratio of the capacity of our pumping stations.
19 They can give you that ratio of what is a
20 standard measurement. They can give you that.
21 Q. Do you allege that there was any other
22 predominant cause of the flooding of Jefferson
23 Parish following Hurricane Katrina?
24 A. I haven't made any allegations in
25 regards to cause of flooding.

131
1 Q. So, as you sit here today, you don't
2 know any other cause of the flooding of
3 Jefferson Parish other than rainfall?
4 A. I don't know of any other cause of
5 flooding other than rainfall, as we speak, but
6 I have not been presented, again, any
7 scientific data or studies to that effect.
8 Q. As a lawyer, would you agree that a
9 class action is the most effective way to try a
10 case such as this with so many homes that have
11 flooded?
12 A. Well, as an attorney, I've never managed
13 a class action suit. From what I know,
14 certification is a critical element in a suit,
15 and I think it depends on the circumstances of
16 each case.
17 Q. So you have no opinion on that?
18 A. My opinion would be it would depend on
19 the circumstances of each case as to what would
20 be the most effective.
21 Q. Would you agree that the flooding that
22 occurred in Jefferson Parish after Hurricane
23 Katrina was a manmade disaster, that is, it was
24 created because the pump operators were ordered
25 to evacuate from their pumping station?

132
1 A. I have no evidence that's been presented
2 to me that establishes that fact.
3 Q. Did the Parish of Jefferson maintain a
4 homeland security and emergency preparedness
5 agency before August 29th of 2005?
6 A. There was a homeland security committee,
7 if you will, that was established. We did not
8 have a homeland security director. Mr. Maestri
9 served as the chairman of that committee to
10 review applications by various jurisdictions
11 within Jefferson Parish for homeland security
12 funds.
13 Q. Who else was on that committee?
14 A. You would have had the sheriff's office.
15 Newell Normand would have been on that
16 committee. You would have had representatives
17 from at least one or more of the fire
18 departments. I can get you the exact
19 information and the components of that
20 committee.
21 MS. JACOBS:
22 Dennis.
23 MR. PHAYER:
24 Specifically, what do you want?
25 MS. JACOBS:
133
1 Members of the committee.
2 THE WITNESS:
3 Probably a municipal representative
4 as well.
5 BY MS. JACOBS:
6 Q. Do you know where that committee was
7 located?
8 A. To my recollection, it met where it was
9 convenient for the committee to meet. I don't
10 know exactly. I don't know that it met at an
11 exact place repetitively. I think it basically
12 convened when it was convenient and where it
13 was convenient for the members to attend.
14 Q. Do you know whether or not there were
15 any records that were kept on the committee?
16 A. I'm not aware of them, however, if they
17 exist, they would be a part of the emergency
18 management file system, to my best
19 recollection; however, I would forward that
20 question probably to Tim Whitmer, and if there
21 was a separate filing system kept on that
22 committee, apart from emergency management, he
23 would know if such was the case.
24 Q. Now, you are aware of the fact that you
25 are a defendant in this lawsuit?

134
1 A. Yes, ma'am.
2 Q. Is it your opinion that you're immune
3 from liability in this particular case?
4 A. I don't have an opinion in regards to
5 this at this present time. I've not researched
6 the issues that you're talking about.
7 Q. Are you familiar with the Louisiana
8 Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and
9 Disaster Act?
10 A. Not generally or specifically do I
11 recall the contents of that act.
12 Q. So you don't recall reading that act?
13 A. No, ma'am. I do not recall reading that
14 act.
15 Q. Well, have you been informed that act
16 empowers the parish presidents to prepare for
17 naturally caused emergencies, respond to
18 manmade disasters, and not to create a manmade
19 disaster?
20 A. No, ma'am. I have not read the
21 provisions of that act. I have not read that
22 provision.
23 Q. You don't know what the act provides
24 for?
25 A. No, ma'am. I do not recall the

135
1 provisions of that act or having read that act.
2 Q. I'd like to talk about corporations that
3 you may be an officer, agent, or director in or
4 a board member. Are there any?
5 A. As we speak?
6 Q. Let's take it in sequence. As we speak
7 and then go back in time.
8 A. I'm a sole practitioner in my practice.
9 Q. Is that a corporation?
10 A. No. Sole practitioner, not a
11 corporation.
12 Q. Do you know of any corporations that you
13 might be a board member on now?
14 A. No, I do not recall any.
15 Q. What about at the time of Hurricane
16 Katrina?
17 A. I don't recall any other than what I've
18 just said, my law practice. I was a board
19 member of a bank at that time.
20 Q. At the time of Hurricane Katrina?
21 A. Board member of a bank at that time.
22 Q. What bank was that?
23 A. First Bank and Trust.
24 Q. Are you still a board member?
25 A. No, ma'am.
136
1 Q. Any other corporations that you can
2 think of?
3 A. No, ma'am.
4 Q. What about before Hurricane Katrina?
5 A. None that I recall at this time.
6 Q. As a result of the flooding, is it
7 correct that thousands of cars were removed
8 from Jefferson Parish streets?
9 A. You want to be more specific about that
10 question?
11 Q. Well, did a lot of cars in Jefferson
12 Parish get flooded?
13 A. I have not seen the records of amounts
14 of cars that were flooded.
15 Q. Well, your general knowledge is a lot of
16 cars that were here got flooded; isn't that
17 correct?
18 A. I don't recall any specific numbers of
19 cars that were flooded. There was an
20 evacuation that was called for of the area, and
21 a lot of the residents left, and they left with
22 their cars, so I don't recall seeing records of
23 amounts of cars that were flooded.
24 Q. Well, did the Parish of Jefferson
25 contract with a corporation to remove cars from

137
1 Jefferson Parish that had been flooded?
2 A. I don't recall such a contract, but if
3 you have any specifics to enlighten me.
4 Q. Who would have that information?
5 A. If that contract existed, that would be
6 a public record for us, and you simply request
7 it through our attorney, and you'll have that
8 information.
9 MS. JACOBS:
10 Dennis, we'd like that information,
11 please.
12 MR. PHAYER:
13 Contract that was executed in
14 connection with removal of flooded cars.
15 MS. JACOBS:
16 Flooded cars in Jefferson Parish.
17 MR. PHAYER:
18 Will do.
19 THE WITNESS:
20 I remember such a contract in New
21 Orleans. I don't know.
22 BY MS. JACOBS:
23 Q. I'm wondering if they had one in
24 Jefferson.
25 A. I don't recall, but any information we

138
1 have is available to you.
2 Q. Now, you said previously that you were
3 not familiar with the Homeland Security Act, is
4 that correct, you had never read it?
5 A. I don't recall ever reading that act.
6 Q. So you did not comply with the Homeland
7 Security Act during Hurricane Katrina; is that
8 correct?
9 A. I have no knowledge of compliance or
10 noncompliance.
11 Q. We'd like to show you a film. I want to
12 make sure you're going to be able to see it.
13 I'm not sure that you can see it from there.
14 We'll make it available to you.
15 A. I don't mind walking over there.
16 Q. I want your lawyer to be able to see it,
17 too.
18 Dennis.
19 MR. PHAYER:
20 You want us to step over there?
21 MS. JACOBS:
22 Whatever is easier for you all to
23 see. I'll show it. I'm going to ask him some
24 questions.
25 Mr. Reporter, Mr. Videographer, can

139
1 you take this down.
2 MR. MARTIN:
3 Let's play it first, let it be
4 videotaped, then we can turn and show it to Mr.
5 Broussard. Does that sound like a fair
6 proposal.
7 MS. JACOBS:
8 That's good. Do you want a chair.
9 THE WITNESS:
10 I think I'm okay. How long is the
11 video?
12 MS. JACOBS:
13 Five minutes.
14 (VIDEO IS PLAYED FOR THE WITNESS)
15 BY MS. JACOBS:
16 Q. Now, I'd ask you and Dennis, Aaron, if
17 you want me to replay the tape for you, because
18 I have some question to ask you and --
19 A. Why don't you ask the questions. If I
20 have to be refreshed about a certain question
21 or thing you are referring to, we can refer
22 back to that portion. How about that?
23 Q. Okay. After looking at the tape, when I
24 questioned you, you said that you were not
25 aware of any other flooding; however, on the

140
1 tape, you talk about a 300-foot breach. Is
2 that correct?
3 A. Yeah. That was the breach -- I'm
4 referring to the breach of the 17th Street
5 Canal on the Orleans side that ended up
6 flooding Old Metairie and Old Jefferson.
7 Q. So you were aware of that as being
8 another cause, that there was a breach of the
9 levee, and that also caused flooding?
10 A. I was made aware of the breach -- the
11 breach, as the record will reflect, occurred
12 after Katrina, after the storm itself had
13 passed, as I recall, and then the breach began
14 to take effect, as far as its impact on
15 Jefferson Parish, as a result of water pouring
16 in from the 17th Street Canal.
17 Q. Isn't it correct that the other areas of
18 Jefferson Parish were already flooded?
19 A. Again, you'd have to look at some aerial
20 maps. You'd have to look at something that
21 would correlate that moment in time. To my
22 recollection, pump operators had returned to a
23 number of the stations on the day of the storm,
24 and stations that were operational were
25 operated. So to the extent of where flooding

141
1 was present at the time that the breach
2 occurred, you would almost have to look at some
3 aerial photo documentation to make that
4 correlation.
5 Q. So you have no personal knowledge?
6 A. No. I don't recall seeing a correlation
7 of the breach with an aerial shot of Jefferson
8 Parish at that time. There may be some of that
9 photography available through the Corps of
10 Engineers, and I would suggest to you, you
11 might look in that direction.
12 Q. Now, on that transcript, you indicate,
13 and I'm trying to paraphrase the quote, Why did
14 it happen? Who needs to be fired? When you
15 found out that the pump operators had been
16 evacuated from their posts and that you had not
17 been consulted, did you make any attempts to
18 find Mr. Maestri for making that decision
19 without consulting you?
20 A. That was a plan. You refer to it as a
21 decision, but it was a plan, and the plan that
22 was drafted prior to Katrina was implemented at
23 the time of Katrina. Your question presupposes
24 that a person made an individual decision, and
25 yet it was a plan that was followed according

142
1 to the benchmarks of the plan.
2 Q. Did you make any attempts to fire Mr.
3 Maestri?
4 A. I've never made an attempt to fire
5 Mr.Maestri.
6 Q. For following that proposed plan?
7 A. I've never made an attempt to fire Mr.
8 Maestri as regards to that plan or any other
9 action.
10 Q. Towards the end of the tape, you said:
11 The guy who runs this building, I'm in
12 emergency management, his mother was trapped in
13 the St. Bernard Nursing Home, and every day she
14 called him and said, are you coming, son, is
15 someone coming? And he said, Yeah, momma, and
16 she drowned on Friday night. That was not
17 true?
18 A. Well, ultimately, I was given a
19 different set of facts than I was given by some
20 of my own employees at the point in time that
21 Tommy Rodrigue was told his mother had died. I
22 think it was sometime -- that broadcast was a
23 Sunday morning, I think. I think it was
24 sometime Friday night that Tommy was notified
25 by St. Bernard officials that his mother had

143
1 passed.
2 I was approached by a number of
3 different employees in tears, basically sobbing
4 out these facts, as I heard them, that he was
5 in contact with his mother, and rescue was
6 promised, and rescue was not delivered, and
7 then he was just told that she had died. These
8 were the sobbing facts that I was told. My
9 interest was in trying to console Tommy. I
10 went right to Tommy, consoled him.
11 Q. His mother did not die; is that correct?
12 You later learned his mother did not die?
13 A. Oh, his mother died.
14 Q. She certainly didn't die on Friday?
15 A. He was notified on Friday night. I
16 don't know what date she died. He was
17 notified, because, remember, communication was
18 very poor. He was notified sometime Friday
19 night that his mother had died.
20 Q. On the tape you are quoted as saying,
21 and I can play back the tape. She drowned on
22 Friday night.
23 A. That's what I was told. Again, this is
24 sobbing employees.
25 Q. You later learned that was not true?

144
1 A. I later learned it was a different set
2 of facts. The exact set of facts, I would let
3 those facts speak for themselves. Believe me,
4 at that period of time, most of the information
5 you were getting were verbal, and I didn't seek
6 to cross-examine whatever was being told to me
7 verbally.
8 Q. When was it that you gave this spiel to
9 the news media?
10 MR. PHAYER:
11 I object. The spiel, are you
12 referring to the --
13 MS. JACOBS:
14 To the tape.
15 MR. PHAYER:
16 To the Tim Russert interview that
17 was on Meet the Press?
18 MS. JACOBS:
19 Yes.
20 BY MS. JACOBS:
21 Q. When did you meet with Meet the Press?
22 A. My recollection is that it was done on a
23 Sunday morning.
24 Q. Sunday morning?
25 A. That would have been the Sunday after

145
1 Katrina.
2 Q. You would agree that you were very
3 emotional during that time; is that right?
4 A. As I just reviewed the tape, I think
5 that I came across very calm and deliberate for
6 the majority of that presentation. The
7 recollection of a friend's mom dying was fresh
8 in my mind. It wasn't something I even
9 intended to mention. I don't recall how the
10 correlation got in my mind between abandonment
11 and Tommy's mother, but, boy, when that
12 connotation hit my mind, it just made a very
13 emotional connect to me, and I had not grieved
14 about that yet.
15 Q. And you started crying?
16 A. Apparently so, yes.
17 MS. JACOBS:
18 May we have a minute that I can
19 consult with counsel, please? We can leave the
20 room, if you want.
23 (BRIEF RECESS)
25 We are back on the record at 1:33.

146
1 BY MS. JACOBS:
2 Q. I believe you previously testified that
3 you abrogated this old plan, which has been
4 marked as B-1, the Catastrophic Weather Event
5 Doomsday Plan, and you implemented a new plan
6 for the parish; is that right?
7 A. You said implemented. The first word
8 you used was what.
9 Q. Abrogated?
10 A. And then basically what you -- then we
11 instituted a new -- implemented a new plan. We
12 haven't implemented that plan yet.
13 Q. You proposed it.
14 A. The plan was created, a new plan was
15 created, and it is our present plan.
16 Q. So it is correct that you have the
17 authority, and you had the authority to
18 implement a Catastrophic Weather Event or a
19 Doomsday Plan as parish president?
20 A. The plans are created as we created the
21 new plan. For instance, the new plan that's
22 created, that plan is now the plan. If a
23 severe hurricane comes into our area, then it
24 triggers that new plan. That is the style of
25 emergency management. You create a plan in the

147
1 calmness of the absence of a storm that you
2 then implement when the storm approaches.
3 Q. But, as parish president, you're in
4 charge of the emergency manager?
5 A. I'm in charge of all the departments,
6 including emergency manager.
7 Q. In 1998, when you were on the city
8 council --
9 MR. PHAYER:
10 Parish council.
11 BY MS. JACOBS:
12 Q. Parish council, did either you or the
13 parish councilmen ever look at the Doomsday
14 Plan and review it?
16 recollection was it ever presented to us for
17 review. It would have had to have been
18 presented to us for review. The charter
19 creates a line of demarcation when you see it
20 between the legislative and administrative
21 branches as to what a councilman, an individual
22 councilman, can demand of another department.
23 Typically, everything is worked through the
24 administration.
25 Q. Did you ever ask to review it?

148
1 A. Didn't know it existed.
2 Q. That's true from 1999 on to 1995.
3 MR. PHAYER:
4 2005.
5 BY MS. JACOBS:
6 Q. 2005.
7 A. Yes, ma'am, up until -- again, I said I
8 saw this plan after Katrina.
9 Q. It was after Katrina. You never knew
10 that a plan existed?
11 A. Never knew of a Doomsday Plan that
12 existed.
13 Q. Would you agree that Hurricane Katrina
14 was the biggest and most horrific event to ever
15 strike the Parish of Jefferson since you have
16 been in elected office?
17 A. Since the levees were constructed, I
18 know there was a major hurricane event, I think
19 in the late forties.
20 Q. Since you were in public office.
21 A. It's the biggest storm that I recall
22 ever hitting the parish since I was in public
23 office.
24 Q. You never thought about the fact that
25 there may be a catastrophe that would strike

149
1 the parish and ask either for a copy of a
2 Doomsday Plan or ask to implement a Doomsday
3 Plan for the parish to protect the parish
4 against emergencies?
5 A. In each department, they have their
6 plans of operation, and the emergency
7 management operations have their plans that
8 they devise. I trusted the people that were in
9 place, and I trusted that they were doing their
10 jobs to the best of their ability.
11 Q. As parish president, you never thought
12 that it was necessary to actually review a
13 Doomsday Plan before a major catastrophic
14 event?
15 A. No, ma'am. I didn't know the Doomsday
16 Plan existed.
17 Q. You never asked to implement one?
18 A. No, ma'am. I didn't ask to implement a
19 Doomsday Plan. I didn't know this plan existed
20 until after Katrina.
21 Q. Isn't it a fact that the Catastrophic
22 Weather Event or Doomsday Plan is not a
23 department plan, it's a parish plan?
24 A. Well, it's devised by the Department of
25 Emergency Management, and when it's devised by

150
1 the Department of Emergency Management, there
2 is not a requirement that it goes before the
3 council for approval, therefore, when the
4 department creates a plan, that then becomes
5 the plan.
6 Q. But this plan is for the entire parish?
7 A. It is for all of the parish employees.
8 That's how it's described here, as the parish
9 employees.
10 Q. But it's to be implemented throughout
11 the parish?
12 A. It's to be implemented in regards to all
13 emergency management personnel as defined under
14 this particular plan.
15 Q. And you trusted the employees of
16 emergency management and other sections of
17 government to implement a plan that you knew
18 nothing about?
19 A. I trusted each department head. I
20 trusted their preparations and their plans for
21 emergency situations such as this.
22 Q. Even though you were parish president,
23 and you didn't even know if a plan existed?
24 A. I trusted each department to have their
25 own plan in an emergency situation, and I

151
1 trusted emergency management to have their
2 plans in place, ready for any emergency that
3 would come our way.
4 Q. As parish president, what were your
5 oversight duties?
6 A. Basically as defined by the charter, as
7 I referred to you earlier. I think the charter
8 more specifically defines the duties of the
9 parish president, but it basically is the top
10 elected administrator in Jefferson Parish.
11 MS. JACOBS:
12 Thank you. That's all the
13 questions I have.
14 MR. PHAYER:
15 I think we're done.
17 This concludes the deposition. Off
18 the record at 1:39.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
152
1 WITNESS' CERTIFICATE
3 I have read or have had read to
4 me the foregoing deposition and find same to be
5 true and correct with the exception of any
6 changes and or corrections, if any, on the
7 attached amendment sheet.
10
11
__________________________
12 AARON BROUSSARD
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
153
1 CERTIFICATE
3 I, SANDRA P. DIFEBBO, Certified
4 Court Reporter, #82009, in good standing, in
5 and for the State of Louisiana, do hereby
6 certify that the witness, after having been
7 first duly sworn to testify to the truth, the
8 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, did
9 testify as hereinbefore set forth in the
10 foregoing 152 pages.
11 That the testimony was reported
12 by me in shorthand and transcribed under my
13 personal direction and supervision, and is a
14 true and correct transcript, to the best of my
15 ability and understanding;
16 That I am not of Counsel, not
17 related to Counsel, nor to the parties hereto,
18 and am in no way interested in the outcome of
19 this event.
20
21
22
23 ___________________________
Sandra P. DiFebbo,
24 Certified Shorthand Reporter
25

Broussard Depo

Transféré par

Informations du document

Copyright

Formats disponibles

Partager ce document

Partager ou intégrer le document

Options de partage

Avez-vous trouvé ce document utile ?

Ce contenu est-il inapproprié ?

Droits d'auteur :

Formats disponibles

Broussard Depo

Transféré par

Droits d'auteur :

Formats disponibles

1

1 24TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT

2 FOR THE PARISH OF JEFFERSON

5 NO. 624-459 DIVISION "I"

7 CHICAGO PROPERTY INTERESTS, L.L.C.

10 AARON BROUSSARD PERSONALLY AND IN HIS CAPACITY

13 CASE NO. 624-778(LEVY), 625-145(LOGA),

15 635-539(BROWN), AND 635-883(MENARD)

18 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF AARON BROUSSARD,

19 given in the above-entitled cause, pursuant to

20 the following stipulation, before Sandra P.

21 DiFebbo, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and

22 for the State of Louisiana, at the Law Offices

23 of Burglass & Tankersley, 5213 Airline Drive,

24 Metairie, Louisiana, on the 28th of November,

25 2007, at 9:11 am.

2 PLAINTIFFS' MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE:

3 JACOBS & SARRAT

13 PLAINTIFFS' LIASON COUNSEL and COUNSEL FOR

15 MURPHY, ROGERS, SLOSS & GAMBEL

19 DEFENDANTS, AARON BROUSSARD AND THE PARISH OF

21 BURGLASS & TANKERSLEY

4 LEAKE & ANDERSSON

8 DEFENDANT, AMERICAN ALTERNATIVE INSURANCE

15 Videograppher: Greg Cassen, Depo-Vue

3 It is stipulated and agreed by

4 and between Counsel for the parties hereto that

5 the deposition of AARON BROUSSARD is hereby

6 being taken pursuant to the Louisiana Code of

7 Civil Procedure for all purposes in accordance

9 That the formalities of reading

10 and signing are NOT specifically waived;

11 That the formalities of sealing,

12 certification, and filing are hereby

14 That all objections, save those as to

15 the form of the question and responsiveness of

16 the answer are hereby reserved until such time

17 as this deposition or any part thereof is used

18 or sought to be used in evidence.

20 Sandra P. DiFebbo, Certified

21 Shorthand Reporter, in and for the State of

22 Louisiana, officiated in administering the oath

1 AARON BROUSSARD, 100 West Esplanade

2 Avenue, Kenner, Louisiana, having been

3 first duly sworn by Sandra P. DiFebbo, was

4 examined and testified on his oath as

6 EXAMINATION BY MS. JACOBS:

7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Broussard.

8 A. Good morning, Darleen.

9 Q. I've already introduced myself, and you

10 and I know each other for many years; is that

12 A. Since law school, yes, ma'am.

13 Q. Now, being an attorney, you know that

14 you have the right to read and sign your

15 deposition, or you can waive that right. Do

16 you wish to read and sign the deposition, or do

17 you wish to waive it? You can consult with

20 We will read and sign.

22 Q. I have a series of questions to ask you

23 regarding the cases that have been filed. If

24 you don't understand my question, I want you to

25 stop and tell me that you don't understand.

1 And, of course, you know that everything that

2 you are answering right now is being taken down