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10/09/2015

Is Islam Bad for Tourism?

Is Islam Bad for Tourism?


Sep 7th, 2006, in IM Posts, by Patung

Attempting to forbid sinful activities, such as drinking, harms the growth of tourism in Muslim areas.
Luthfi Assyaukanie mentions the success of Hindu dominated Bali in developing a thriving tourist industry, and
compares it with the lack of such success of the Muslim dominated Ternate and Tidore islands in North
Maluku, and also Lombok, both places being able to lay claim to having many of the tropical charms that
normally would see sun-seeking foreigners with too much spare time on their hands beating a path to their
doors, bringing along with them lots of money.
Not only beachside attractions distinguish Lombok and Ternate-Tidore but they are also places full of history.
Interestingly, Lombok, like Bali, was once an important centre of Hindu learning and culture. While Bali held
on to its Hindu heritage, and thrived, Lombok abandoned it in favour of Islam, and did not prosper, in terms
of the travel industry at any rate.
Ternate and Tidore, in the Moluccas, near the island of Halmahera, have not succeeded at all in the tourism
area, says Luthfi, while Lombok's limited success can be put down to its proximity to Bali - it has merely
taken the "overflow" from the Island of the Gods and cannot take any credit for having done so.
Foreign tourists like to drink alcohol, says Luthfi. But on the little islands of Ternate and Tidore there are few
places, if any, where degenerate westerners can indulge their weakness for the demon drink, or get
"hammered", in colloquial terms. Luthfi met with some people on the islands, people who all said, when
asked, that they would welcome the development of a tourist industry. But, when asked about the existence
of "cafes" or bars they said that such places as had existed had all been shut down by the local branch of the
FPI (Front Pembela Islam). One person said:
There used to some [cafes and bars] but they were all torn down. Recently one has opened but
they [the owners] are still afraid to operate.
(dulu ada, tapi semuanya sudah dihancurkan. Baru-baru ini ada satu kafe didirikan, tapi masih
takut beroperasi.)
Luthfi, in Islam, Turisme, dan Toleransi, says the citizens of Ternate, Tidore, and Lombok, and other Muslim
areas that would like to build a tourist industry, should learn from the tolerant attitude of the Balinese, that is,
that in order to enjoy the benefits of tourism the various consequences have also to be accepted.

61 Comments on Is Islam Bad for Tourism?


1 2 3 Next
1.

Mohammed Khafi says:


September 7, 2006 at 11:01 am
Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Pakistan and
Malaysia are all majority Islamic countries and all have tourists. Perhaps it is something more basic than
Islam which is frightening off the visitors?
All of them apart from Malaysia, Oman and Qatar have suffered some form of extremist violence, but
the visitors keep going. Perhaps the visitors go to the countries which give the impression of being
serious about fighting intolerance and violence?

2.

Fanglong says:
September 7, 2006 at 2:09 pm
There are many kinds of tourism & tourists. Some might feel oppressed in Dubai, some in Lombok, for
reasons opposed, but for the same kind of I wonder

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Is Islam Bad for Tourism?

Matthew says:
September 7, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Alcohol is freely available in all, or most, of those countries.

4.

Indcoup says:
September 7, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Why is drinking sinful?

5.

Hassan says:
September 7, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Perhaps its not about religion at all. perhaps they just doesnt like our tourist attractions, or they
doesnt like our poor discipline, our dirty streets, our poor hotels and services, our high crime rates?
Why is it always Islam this and Islam that? Why does even such a small thing like tourism had to be
related to Islam? Cmon give me a break.
Next youre gonna relate tourists mood or weather to Islam.

6.

Molisan Tono says:


September 8, 2006 at 3:48 pm
Hassan, you forgot to mentioned hypocracy, poor hospitality and corruptions.
Dont you ring a bell Hassan? This is Moslem country, the BIGGEST Moslem country in the world, so
now ask yourself why Islam this and Islam that? Isnt it that your party that claimed this is Islam
country? So if its not Islam this and Islam that, who then?
You sounds like my 11 months son talking, mumbling and hoping people to understand you mate?
Why you never heard Hindu in Bali complaining nudity on beach? They never had a problem with that,
its all about Islam agenda, they had problem with tits and nudity. Cant have it so we forbid it.

7.

Magy says:
September 8, 2006 at 6:18 pm
I personally dont think religion has so much to do with it.
What do tourists want first?
Obviously safety.
Is RI safe? If and when you can answer yes to this question you can go on and ask what other
circumstances will lure tourists.
RI has potential since there are plenty of kind and friendly people, a beutiful nature and beaches in
many places and low prices.
But safety first and in my view Ri is unfortunately not safe. So I guess you can say that religion
matters in a way religiuos fanatism has destroied the possibility for millions of people to live better
and richer lives and get out of poverty. Tens of billions of USD worth of tourism and relations with
foreigners are being lost and RI get more isolated and put off the radar of many tourists and investors.
So in a way religion matters, after all, but in a strange way, and not the religion itself more the extrem
interpretations of it.
Most Muslims in RI want to be on the train for increasing prosperity that are increasingly evolving
around us in China, India, etc. 50 million people every year are leaving poverty people in RI want
that too.

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The touris industry could have been an essential part of that. Sad to see a few destroy for so many.
8.

Andrew says:
September 8, 2006 at 11:06 pm
I believe the root of the issue is not the religion, but the fact that certain terrorist groups use Islam as an
excuse to attack.
However, we have to understand that it is difficult if not impossible for people who dont have
previous exposure to Islam (e.g. friends, society, etc.) to dissociate Islam from Osama. Their first
exposure to Islam is thru the 9/11 incident. First cut is the deepest Rod Stewart.
Sadly, there are still a lot of Moslems who dont draw the line.
Those that are concerned with upholding the truth should work together in rectifying the
misunderstanding.

9.

Ron B says:
September 9, 2006 at 7:02 am
This is an interesting point of view but I have two questions:
1. Why only mention Bali, Lombok and Ternate/Tidore? Could we add Batam, for example to the
analysis?
2. Is easy acces for international visitors a more important factor? Bali has the international airport,
Lombok visitors can go via Bali, Batam is very close to Singapore airport. Is access to Ternat/Tidore
the problem?

10.

Mohammed Khafi says:


September 9, 2006 at 9:04 am
I would think that most visitors to Batam are single males from Singapore, they are certainly not going
there for the culture and history. Have you been to Batam recently?, massage parlours, karaoke bars
and nightclubs outnumber the golf courses and family resorts by far.

11.

Fanglong says:
September 10, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Drinking is sinful because a holy man said it.
Drinking is not sinful because another holy man said it.
Both holy men are right : they must have spoken according to circumstances.
Wisemen should know that relative truths are relatively true and absolute truth goes far beyond our
intellectual capacities.

12.

Molisan Tono says:


September 11, 2006 at 8:59 am
I lived in Batam before, and still hold Batam ID, khafi is right. Batam can not be used as barometer for
tourism. Batam just like another face of cheap prostitute site for Singapore males.
Why we use or mentioned Bali first? Bali is top rated devisa source for this country. So, its worth to
be a standard barometer.
Ron B, if you put Batam as option, tourist would rather go to Singapore than Batam, Batam right now
is better for investment, not tourism. Beside that, what kind of tourism you would like to offer for
tourist? I dont see much aspect Batam has, believe me. You should follow khafis advice, try to fly to
Batam, before you land at the airport, look out the window, and tell us what you see, all spoiled beach.

13.

Bradlymail says:
September 12, 2006 at 12:34 pm

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Do not get wrong impression on Batam. I have another house at Perumahan Sukajadi in Batam and
owner of Travel Agency in Batam. Nowdays so many tourists from Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia
etc., come to Batam through Singapore. Most of the tourists are enjoying their visits here, goods,
foods, hotels are relatively cheap. In economic term is very good for Batam and its people. Another 2
or 3 years, Batam will become Industrial Island-where the factories in Singapore will be shifted in
Batam. There will be a lot of works for local people. Since Sutanto takes over as Head of Police,
gambling was banned. Night entertaiments is under controlled by Batam authority.
14.

Hassan says:
September 13, 2006 at 9:20 pm
No tono, Indonesia is NOT an Islamic country (as you always insisted on). This is a country with
Islamic majority but NOT an Islamic country. Islamic country practices the sharia, and we dont. This
is a secular country, so now, blame the secularism instead of the major religion, smart alec.
Islam in Indonesia is a majority without power. Those smarty pants in the government? They are
Muslims, but they represent secularism, not Islam the religion.
So, if Indonesia and its Muslim practices the sharia and things like this happens, you can blame Islam.
Otherwise, stop your rhetorics.
______________
And I dont ring any bells, Im not a bell boy or anything. )

15.

Bradlymail says:
September 14, 2006 at 8:20 am
Anyway, I agree with you Pak Hasan!

16.

Bas says:
September 14, 2006 at 11:24 pm
No Hassan. Indonesia (well most of it) IS an Islamic country in facts. I can feel it every day in almost
every aspect of my everyday life and each time I have a conversation with a Muslim in this country.
And I have had many conversation since 1993, the year I moved in Indonesia.
Indonesia is a secular country
Never heard such a funny thing in my all life. A pure intellectual production of the high quality
Indonesian education. OK Indonesia is a secular and democratic paradise with very nice smilling
people.
Islam in Indonesia is a majority without power.
Poor Indonesian Muslims who have no power. The power is probably in the hand of the Hindous, or
maybe the communists? I must have been fooled by the thousands of new mosques, the Islamics
programs on TV and the growing number of women wearing jilbab.
if Indonesia and its Muslim practices the sharia and things like this happens, you can
blame Islam. otherwise, stop your rhetorics.
Sharia is nothing compared to what I see in Indonesia man.
Things like this happens already happens dear Hassan (nice name my friend!). Open your eyes (well,
sorry, you cant). Just an example: 3 years ago Ive almost been killed because I was watching TV at 6
PM with my fiance. My crime was the door of my own house was closed. No FPI involved man.
Just nice neighbours. Common people. Just like you.
The truth is most of Indonesian Muslims are totally intolerant and feel just better than other people.
Why do other religion people always have to become Muslim to marry a Muslim? What a shame.

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Most westerners cannot see the real face of Indonesian Muslims because extremism is well hidden
behind hypocrisy and false hospitality. In Indonesia ordinary people are the real threat because
politician have to please them. Not the bombers. In a way I respect more terrorists than the Muslim I
meet every day because, at least, terrorists have the courage to act and to show who they really are.
They die for their stupid ideas and they show us the real face of Islam in Indonesia. Its a good thing.
Most of Muslims in Indonesia share exactly the same backward religious vision. Fortunately most of
them are not criminals, at least until they get a chance to spit their venom safely, which often happens in
this sweet secular paradise.
17.

Molisan Tono says:


September 15, 2006 at 9:33 am
Ouch thats painful. Thanks Bas, that hurts my ears. hahaha.

18.

Molisan Tono says:


September 15, 2006 at 9:44 am
Hassan Says:
September 13th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
No tono, Indonesia is NOT an Islamic country (as you always insisted on). This is a
country with Islamic majority but NOT an Islamic country.
Your smart ass fellow outside there, specially those who got on TV always claimed that, not me lol.
Blame the secular? I had that once, but I think most mouth came from Moslems, so I want to ask that
question instead to secular. Why wash you hands if you cant handle things you people has already
started?
Islam in Indonesia is a majority without power. those smarty pants in the government?
they are Muslims, but they represent secularism, not Islam the religion.
I think they have figure that sharia is just a bad idea, women loose their job, got circumsized, banned
for night crawling (even they hungry), and slavery happen, maybe, who knows.

19.

Hassan says:
September 15, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Bas:
Indonesia is a secular country: Never heard such a funny thing in my all life.
Then get yourself educated. Secularism is the separation of the state and religion, is it not? The last time
I checked, Indonesias ideology is pancasila, and not Islamic law. That means Indonesia is a secular
country.
Islam in Indonesia is a majority without power. means that although Islam is the majority in Indonesia,
the laws applied here is a secular one, not an Islamic one. Means that an Islamic party never won any
elections since our independence, as golkar, pdi-p, and partai demokrat were secular nationalist
parties. Means that our leaders although Muslims, preferred to represent secularism instead of Islam.
The rest of your statement sounded like youre stereotyping people, shows that your an Islam hater
and a die hard bigot. Having fun being a bigot?
Try changing the subjects of the last paragraph from Indonesia and Muslims to Africa and black people
for example. That will show your true color, a racist!
The truth is most of the black people are totally intolerant and feel just better than other people. Most
white people cannot see the real face of the blacks because extremism is well hidden behind hypocrisy
and false hospitality. In Africa ordinary people are the real threat because politician have to please
them. Not the bombers. In a way I respect more terrorists than the blacks I meet every day because,
at least, terrorists have the courage to act and to show who they really are. They die for their stupid

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Islam
Bad
forreally
Tourism?
at least, terrorists have the courage to act and to Is
show
who
they
are. They die for their stupid

ideas and they show us the real face of their race in Africa. Its a good thing. Most of blacks in Africa
share exactly the same backward vision. Fortunately most of them are criminals, at least until they get a
chance to spit their venom safely.
20.

Hassan says:
September 15, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Tono:
your smart ass fellow outside there specially those who got on TV always claimed that,
not me lol
Thats what the FPI wanted to happen, but the fact is Indonesia is a country that separates the state
and religion, that means secularism. lndonesia with sharia, thats an Islamic country.
why wash you hands if you cant handle things you people has already started?
Islam never handled anything in Indonesia. secular Muslims handled the government all this time, but
not Islam the religion. Separate the religion and the followers now Tono.
I think they have figure that sharia is just a bad idea, women loose their job, got
circumsized, banned for night crawling (even they hungry), and slavery happen maybe,
who knows
They didnt figured anything, they are seculars who happens to be Muslims. True Muslims will
without doubt accept sharia because it came from their God. Tell me, if a Christian didnt obey the ten
commandments which came from their god, can they be said to represent true Christianity?

21.

Bas says:
September 15, 2006 at 6:26 pm
No Hassan Indonesia is not a secular country since you Must choose a religion and since your religion
is written in your ID.
the laws applied here is a secular one, not an Islamic one.
There is a gap between the theory of legal laws and the laws that are really apllied on the field lol
Indonesian is everything but a country of laws! Dont just hide behind the laws.
Always the same lame excuses not to hear the reality:
You are stereotyping Indonesia people.
Read: Dont talk about Indonesian people anymore: What you say is wrong because we are not ALL
like that.
I dont care if only 75% or 90% of Indonesian people are the way I describe them. I know theyre not
all like that. So what? I must wait 100% of them are the way I think they are to criticize you?
You cant accept criticise. Thats why youre accusing me of being racist. No I am not racist. But I
hate a large part of the Indonesian male society. Not because of the color of their skin but because
they are stupid, arrogant , intolerant, they always tell me what I have to do and what I cannot do, what
is allowed and what is not. They fell they are always right and never accept criticisme and bla bla bla.
Talking about racism. Every day I am insulted in the street just because I am white. I get a special
discount +20% because I am white. So please keep you racism for yourself and apply it for what you
probably think of Borneos tribes or the people of Irian Jaya. Thats Racism Man. The Indonesian
society is definitly racist. I am not. Youre trick on African people is pityful. Please dont apply what I
say about the Indonesian typical people to the people of Africa. Its very insulting for them.
Read the newspapers. Not a day without articles dealing with how lazy, corrupted, violent, not trusty,
barbaric are Indonesian people (ok not 100% just a majority!). And its written by Indonesians. Sorry
no Chinese to kill or FMI to accuse this time. They are still many Indonesian who share my views.

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These aware people thank me for saying what I say. They are ashamed for their country. They know
what is introspection and accept the truth. Not everybody can, especially when a westerner like me
open his mouth. I understand it but sorry Hassan I wont stop to criticize you even if I know the way
I do it is not the right one in your culture and even if I hurt you. I just dont care just like you dont care
about me.
I am the one who really love and care about Indonesia. Not you Hassan. You dont help your country
but doing what you do.
22.

Mohammed Khafi says:


September 15, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Hassan,
true Muslims will without doubt accept sharia because it came from their God
No Hassan it is from the corrupted Sunnah and Hadith!
At least you are right about the Ten Commandments they did come from God and are the same for all
believers.
Jewish Version:
1 I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me
This commandment is to believe in the existence of God and His influence on events in the world, and
that the goal of the redemption from Egypt was to become His servants (Rashi). It prohibits belief in or
worship of any additional deities.
2 Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above
This prohibits the construction or fashioning of idols in the likeness of created things (beasts, fish,
birds, people) and worshipping them.
3 Thou shalt not swear falsely by the name of the LORD
This commandment is to never take the name of God in a vain, pointless or insincere oath (Rashi). This
includes four types of prohibited oaths: an oath affirming as true a matter one knows to be false, an
oath that affirms the patently obvious, an oath denying the truth of a matter one knows to be true, and
an oath to perform an act that is beyond ones capabilities[citation needed].
4 Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy (the version in Deuteronomy reads shamor,
observe)
The seventh day of the week is termed Shabbat and is holy, just as God ceased creative activity during
Creation. The aspect of zachor (remember) is performed by declaring the greatness of the day
(kiddush), by having three festive meals and by engaging in Torah study and pleasurable activities. The
aspect of shamor is performed by abstaining from productive activity (the 39 melachot, forbidden
categories of work) on the Shabbat.
5 Thou shalt honor your father and your mother
The obligation to honor ones parents is an obligation that one owes to God and fulfills this obligation
through ones actions towards ones parents.
6 Thou shalt not murder
Killing an innocent human being is a capital sin (Sefer ha-Chinuch).
7 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife
(Rashi).
8 Thou shalt not steal.
This is not understood as stealing in the conventional sense, since theft of property is forbidden
elsewhere and is not a capital offense. In this context it is to be taken as do not kidnap (Rashi).
9 Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor
One must not bear false witness in a court of law or other proceeding.
10 Thou shalt not covet your neighbors house
One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another.
Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus
(You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one
does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire,
even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.

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Christian/Catholic Version:
1 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of
anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,
but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my
commandments.
Catholic teaching distinguishes between duliapaying honor to God through contemplation of objects
such as paintings and statuesand latriaadoration directed to God alone. (See Catechism 20842141.)
2 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit
anyone who misuses his name.
This commandment prohibits not just swearing but the misappropriation of religious language in order
to commit a crime, participating in occult practices, and blaspheming against places or people that are
holy to God. (See Catechism 2142-2167.)
3 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. Six days you
shall labor and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; you shall
not do any workyou, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your
donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female
slave may rest as well as you. Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD
your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD
your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.
Most Christians refrain from work on Sunday instead of the actual sabbath, Saturday. This is because
Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week (Matthew 28), making Sunday the Lords day.
Some necessary work is permitted on this day of rest. (See Catechism 2168-2195.)
4 Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, so that your days
may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
This commandment emphasizes the family as part of Gods design, as well as an extended metaphor
that God uses for his relationship with his creation. (See Catechism 2197-2257.)
5 You shall not murder.
The right of states to execute criminals is recognized when necessary to preserve the safety of citizens.
However, other methods of protecting society (incarceration, rehabilitation) are increasingly available.
Catholics (along with many Protestants) also consider abortion sinful and a violation of this
commandment. War, if rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy are met (that is, the use of arms must
not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated), is not a violation because
governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed. (See
Catechism 2258-2330.)
6 Neither shall you commit adultery.
Adultery is the breaking of the holy bond between husband and wife, and is thus a sacrilege. This
commandment includes not just the act of adultery, but lust as well. (See Catechism 2331-2400.)
7 Neither shall you steal.
(See Catechism 2401-2463.)
8 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor.
This commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in relations with others. This also forbids lying.
(See Catechism 2464-2513.)
9 Neither shall you covet your neighbors wife.
(See Catechism 2514-2533.)
10 Neither shall you desire your neighbors house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey,
or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
And although it is not specifically mentioned in Al Quran all the commandments are repeated there:
1 There is no other god beside God.(47:19)
2 My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols.
(14:35)
3 Do not subject Gods name to your casual swearing, that you may appear righteous, pious, or to
attain credibility among the people. (2:224)
4 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday,
you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. (62:9)
The Sabbath was relinquished with the revelation of the Quran. Muslims are told in the Quran that the
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Sabbath was only decreed for the Jews. (16:124) God, however, ordered Muslims to make every
effort and drop all businesses to attend the congregational (Friday) prayer. The Submitters may tend to
their business during the rest of the day.
5 .and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to
them, Uff (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them
amicably. (17:23)
6 .anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall
be as if he murdered all the people. (5:32)
7 You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior. (17:32)
8 The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as
an example from God. God is Almighty, Most Wise. (5:38 39)
9 Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. Anyone who withholds a
testimony is sinful at heart. (2:283)
10 And do not covet what we bestowed upon any other people. Such are temporary ornaments of
this life, whereby we put them to the test. What your Lord provides for you is far better, and
everlasting. (20:131)
As Muslims we are commanded to believe in the the other scriptures are we not?
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith.
Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. We make no
distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers. And they say: We hear, and we
obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys. 2:285
There is much more in common between us all when we follow the words of God, rather than
manmade falsehoods.
Just one last thing Hassan, you talked about Muslims and their God and Christians and their God
dont you believe in the oneness of God?
Salaams.
23.

Hassan says:
September 15, 2006 at 10:52 pm
Bas: tsk..tsk..youre not just a racist, you suffer from ethnophobia as well. I think you hated all
Indonesian, gringo. Well lets put it this way, your culture is not mine. If you hate Indonesian for being
Indonesian, then stay in your beloved country. We didnt ask you to care about us. I hated how
conservative and artificial japs and brits are, but hey, who am I to judge?
Who are you to judge wiseguy? You share the kind of mentality your government have. Feels like you
can judge whoever you like, based on YOUR values, cultures, and pattern of thinking. well the world
had many values and cultures, not just yours.
You said you love and care about Indonesia? How would you show that? By throwing all Indonesian
(which you hated so much) out and change the population with white people? Or Chinese? Oh I see,
you want us to change our habits and culture by insulting the hell out of us.
I know Indonesians have problems, but insults wont change jack. Well see if your method of insulting
people to make them come to their senses work. Try this first: go to brooklyn or harlem or any other
black ghettos, and yell out loud. Do what you did here. Tell them about how stupid they are, how
intolerant, lazy, stuck up and proud of their stupidity. Tell them about why most of them end up being
drug dealers and car thiefs. If your theory works and can change them for the better, then we can talk
again here, mr. smart alec. That is if you came out alive.
Last thing, mr big shot white man, dont lecture us about crime rate, as I see that your crown Jewel
country the US. is currently ranked very high on the category of murder, rape, drug abuse, gang
violence, broken homes, etc. And your government isnt very clean either. So clean up your house first,
homie.
If you do love and care about Indonesia, your insults wont change anything, we dont need any more
critics. Believe it or not we have plenty here domestically.

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Is Islam Bad for Tourism?

Bas says:
September 16, 2006 at 2:45 pm
No Hassan, I wont go back to my country. Indonesia is my country since 1993 even if you dont like
it. We can see now who is the racist and tend to indulge in stereotypes. Ill stay here, and Ill keep
saying what I am saying about (ORBA minded) people like you. I perfectly know the way I criticize
people will never be accepted by people like you. Its not effective but sooo good! I love provocation.
Its my caviar in a country with so many taboos and a such a lack of individual freedom.
By the way I am not from the US, you should have notice my bad english, and I am neither big nor
white skinned.
Anyway.. I just wont answer you coming comment. Its just like talking about religion or culture with
Islamists / fanatic people: just useless.
Have a nice day, Hassan.

25.

Adam says:
September 18, 2006 at 11:42 pm
It is very sad to see the subject of this forum, how Islam could be bad for tourism or for anything else,
in my mind it is rather tourism that is bad for Islam or for any individual who wants to live in the dignity.
I am not Indonesian but African, and we are suffering of the wild tourism.
Tourists from western countries use to not respect people, to not respect their environment, their
religion, their culture. Should they want to come in a Muslim country or anywhere where people have
an ethical way of life they have to adapt themselves, and not impose their way of life. they often bring
the sexual tourism, prostitution, paedophilia, and the devlopement of the begging. Even during the last
world cup in Germany, people complained of arrival of prostitution houses, people drunk in the streets,
almost naked men/women in the street etcWho would like to see his mother or his sister live in such
a context?
Have a look on the Thailand situation or Morocco, on the one hand there is an economic development
but on the other hand the poverty is growing, prostitution as well, and local population cannot no longer
purchase a house because tourists make price raising. Do you want this situation for your country?
The right way is not to completely open your country only to gain money from tourism, but to allow it in
an ethical way. That you would be Muslim, hindi or Jewish, you have the right to ask your rules to be
respected in your countries to a certain extent. People cannot travel in a country without drink? if it is
the case, your potential clients are only alcoholic who will be brought the disaster in Indonesia.
The ethical and tolerant tourism is the future, because people in all countries are fed up people who do
not respect them. Do not forget that if you come in a western country you wont be free to plently
practicate your faith, especially in Europe, so why do you want to submit? This does not make sense.
regards

26.

Mohammed Khafi says:


September 19, 2006 at 9:01 pm
Adam,
I have to say with all respect, what a load of utter drivel. I have travelled and worked in over 30
different countries, your blaming tourism for prostitution, paedophilia and the development of begging is
complete and utter nonsense, I can name you country after country, and many of them Muslim majority
with no real developed tourism, where prostitution, paedophilia and begging are commonplace, one of
them being my beloved Indonesia, where our tourism industry is very poorly developed, apart from a
couple of areas.
We have an approximately 90% Muslim population, the largest Muslim population of any country in
the world and to go with it we have the largest prostitution complex in Southeast Asia the so called
Dolly in Surabaya, this is not crowded with tourists it is there for the local population, go to any large

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city or town and your will find brothels gambling and drinking places.
Some months ago in an English languge newspaper here, there was an article dealing with a sexual
practice in Pesantren (Islamic Boarding Schools) in Indonesia, in which the older student/teachers were
allowed to use the younger boys for sexual relief, by rubbing their erections between the younger
students legs, this is apparently common practice in some parts of Java, but in any other part of the
world this would be classed as homosexual paedophilia, with long jail terms for those caught commiting
the act.
Beggars, well just suffice it to say that there are villages in Central Java, where the whole populace is
made up of beggars, again not begging from tourists but from their fellow countrymen.
You sound to me very much like a person who wants to blame somebody else for your own problems.
You will never solve anything in that way my friend.
Me, I have faced up to the reality that many of our problems are of our own making, poverty, poor
education and welfare, lack of teaching of morals, lack of enforcement of law and order. We need to
look at ourselves before blaming others for our own short comings
And your final statement Do not forget that if you come in a western country you wont be free to
plently practicate your faith, especially in Europe, so why do you want to submit?
Who have you been listening to?, obviously you have never been to Europe, I have travelled
extensively in Europe and have never had a problem practising my faith, I have never been turned away
from a Mosque or Masjid. In fact it matters not what religion you are, you are free to practice you
beliefs without let or hinderance.
Peace
27.

Adam says:
September 19, 2006 at 10:35 pm
Mohamed,
Thanks for your comments, but I think you have not completely understood what I meant.
First, Im French (Im living in France, and I bornt in France) but my parents come from Africa, so I
think I am better placed than you to talk about the situation of Muslims in my country and in Europe to
a greater extent, even if you have already come there. Should you came as a foreigner for a short time
you cannot imagine only one second the pressure exercised everydays over the shoulders of Muslims
particularly in this country, maybe you have been informed of certain laws against Muslims in France at
school, in companies, banks etc.
2nd point, I absolutely agree with your remarks concerning the existing situation in Muslim countries as
in Indonesia (prostitution etc) but I hope its very difficult for you to live in such a situation, and if it is
the case I hope you move to change this situation or at least that it be an important concern for you, if
not I could understand that we will never have the same opinion on this debate. What I meant in my
last mail, is just that if one wants to develop the tourism in Indonesia he has to to fix the rules and be
honest with God. The Maldives Islands is a good example, certain rules have been established to
prevent some skids.
3rd, I fell on this forum by chance, because I was looking for an ethical destination for my holidays
with my woman, what it is a proof that foreigners are not reluctant to go towards Muslim countries, it is
only the geopolitocal context that could afraid. For many of Muslims living in Europe, Malaysia and
Indonesia are examples of tolerance, typical of Asian Muslims, but still in the respect of shariah
principles. But we are not stupid we well know that as everywhere else in poor countries, there is
fitna.
Those issues do not relate on the religion but only on the economic situation as you said, and also
maybe because of lack of faith. However what Im sure is that the development of tourism accelerates
the deterioration of such things in a country, and I think I am well placed to say it given I live in the
most touristic country of the world since many years, and I can tell you that mediterranean regions are
modern sodom and gomore in Summer. Be aware of whats happened in Muslim countries that
chose to be too open minded only for tourists confort. Do not forget to give the importance of God

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in all your choices whatever the context. The poverty is maybe a test for you to see your resilience in
the right way.
Finally, you need to understand many Muslims living in western countries have money, and are
desperately searching locations wherein they could enjoy the sea, and the beach without concerns,
where their women could remove their veil and take a sun bath without being disturbed by men, where
they could help their brothers by developing their magnific countries with an ETHICAL TOURISM
without alcohol, girls in string, night clubs.This is a real market with a high growth potential but not
targeted by leisure companies, and even Muslim countries because they are focused on the providing
of profitable services (girls, children trade, sex industry, casinos) for individuals that refuse to act in
an ethical way.
Dear Mohamed, I am not frustrated I just want to show you the chance you have to leave in a Muslim
country, despite the matters, and to tell how tourism is a great opportunity but should be well
handled/limited to comply with your belief, and I am sure you will agree with me on this point. Perhaps,
a new/alternative tourism business should be imagined and Indonesia could be an excellent candidate
or Llah oualem.
Salam
28.

Bradlymail says:
September 20, 2006 at 8:14 am
Prostitution in Indonesia due to poverty, where its economy decline. No investment from foreign
countries due to polical unstability. Corruption, etc. For Indonesia, tourism plays major role to lift up
its economy. I agree with Adam opinioned that do not relate religions with economic terms (tourism).

29.

Mohammed Khafi says:


September 20, 2006 at 2:02 pm
Bradleymail,
Whilst I think that poverty is the root cause of most prostitution, there are disturbing trends in the sex
industry here which are highlighted in this report:
http://wwwsshe.murdoch.edu.au/intersections/issue10/surtees.html
Which make it clear to me that it is not just povert but a lack of morals which are the root cause, and
not just the morals of the women either but the men also.
Adam,
I have had the pleasure of working extensively in mainland Europe and in the UK, I have never found
that I was discriminated against because of my religious beliefs. I am also in Paris every five weeks so
am well aware of the nature of the problem in France, one must understand that France has a complete
seperation between religion and state, and the recent ban of the use of headscarves for Muslim
students is seen by the French authorities as a means of removing overtly religious symbolism from the
state school system, this does not just apply to Muslims but also those of other religions who wish to
display their religious affiliations. I believe that if Muslimah who wish to wear Jilbab or Hijab wish to
move to a private Muslim school then they are allowed to do so, please correct me if I am wrong.
I agree with you that ethical and moral tourism is long overdue, but the commercial organisations which
run the tourism industries are only interested in making money.
Unfortunately the numbers of tourist who are motivated by culture and history are still very limited,
especially so in the Muslim word. Just look at flights from the Middle East to Bangkok, full of single
young men, most tourists from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia are heading to the mountain resort of
Puncak, where the men leave their wives and families to go in search of prostitutes. Prostitution tours
from Saudi Arabia to Southern India. Even The Gulf States have their own Prostitution Centre in
Dubai, where young women from around the world are sent to service the needs of the local men. Until
we can change the mindset of the people, I doubt that anything will change.
Peace

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__________________
The original posting said Attempting to forbid sinful activities, such as drinking, harms the growth of
tourism in Muslim areas.
Perhaps the real root cause of the problem is the prostitution mentioned in this article from Planet
Mole:http://www.planetmole.org/
The Oldest Profession: Indonesia
Endy M. Bayuni wrote an excellent article on prostitution in Indonesia, and, has come up with a few
oddballs that are engaged in the worlds oldest profession.
Will the real prostitutes please stand up, then stand down
Endy M. Bayuni, Jakarta
Something seems to be amiss in the current nationwide crackdown on prostitution.
Tangerang municipality is leading the charge by rounding up women walking alone in main streets past
newly imposed curfew hours, but Jakarta and other major cities have also been raiding locations
allegedly used as brothels. Needless to say, these campaigns get massive coverage by the ever newshungry media, with female prostitutes the main focus, to send a clear message that the authorities are
serious about fighting vice.
Waged in the name of stopping societys moral decay and saving the nations young from moral
bankruptcy, one is left to wonder if the campaign is missing the real targets.
Commercial sex workers who sell their bodies for a few hundred thousand to a few million rupiah are
certainly a menace, and if they operated in your neighborhood, youd probably want them removed
too, and thus you would wholeheartedly support the campaign.
But lets be honest with ourselves. These streetwalkers are not the only ones who are selling their
bodies and souls for financial or material gain in this country. Since they work in hiding to evade the
authorities, they are not even the most visible of all prostitutes, either.
No. There are bigger prostitutes bigger fish for the authorities to catch if they are serious about
wiping out prostitution. And a lot of the time, these prostitutes do their deeds so blatantly that it is really
just a matter of political will for the authorities to round them up.
Prostitution is usually defined as the sale of sexual services, but the online encyclopedia Wikipedia says:
In a more general sense of the word, anyone selling his/her services for a cause thought to be
unworthy can be described as prostituting him/herself.
Going by this wider definition, we can think of many other people in various forms of employment who
are engaging in the worlds oldest profession:
* The elected politicians who betray the peoples mandate by continually claiming to work for the
people when they are really just serving their personal and political interests.
* The appointed officials and bureaucrats who, instead of acting as the servants of the people, make
the people their servants while enriching themselves.
* The intellectuals who sell their minds and thoughts to provide scholarly justifications for laws and
policies that are clearly detrimental to the interests of the people.
* The ulemas and priests who willingly give a religious cloak to laws and regulations that suppress
peoples freedoms and rights.
* The journalists who betray the public trust and fill the media with lies and half-truths to mislead the
people.
True to the wider definition of prostitution, they are selling services for causes thought to be unworthy.
And there is no cause more unworthy than corruption.
These, and many other people in different professions, are the real hardcore prostitutes and thus the
real menace to society. Their corrupt and perverted conduct poses a much more serious threat to the
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nations morals than the simple sexual services offered by streetwalkers.


Most streetwalkers enter the profession not by choice but because of economic pressures. 11 million
people in this country out of job (according to unreliable official statistics) and 30 million others are
underemployed. For many, prostitution is the only available means of survival.
Such justification cannot be used by the elite members of society who willingly and knowingly sell their
soul and services, and sometimes their body too, for profit, material or otherwise. Their only reason for
prostituting themselves is greed.
And they are doing it in the open for all to see. Corruption is so rampant that our children, whose future
we are all concerned about, are so exposed to such practices at early age that some grow up to accept
them as normal.
Moral decadence is indeed a big problem in this country, but moral hypocrisy is an even bigger
problem since we tolerate the bigger and more dangerous type of prostitution.
Condemn prostitution in the name of morality, but its the bigger and more menacing prostitutes that
deserve to be pilloried.
30.

Bradlymail says:
September 20, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Mohammed Khafi yeah, I agree with your points too. Even the rich countries facing this problem.
Morality plays most important in our life to curb this problem.

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