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AuGroupElectronicsForum>ControllerAreaNetwork(CAN)&SerialCommunicationsDiscussion>NMEA0183&2000Discussions(Moderators:F.N.,Nicen,Mikeduan,Future)>Topic:RelationshipbetweenNMEA2000andJ1939

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Topic:RelationshipbetweenNMEA2000andJ1939(Read9477times)

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F.N.
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RelationshipbetweenNMEA2000andJ1939
on:July01,2009,09:42:55PM

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Aretheythesame?
Maybenot.
NMEA2000claimstobebasedontheSAEJ1939highlevelprotocols,butdefinesitsownmessages.TheNMEA2000devicesandJ1939devicescanbemadetocoexistinthe
samephysicalnetwork.Eventhoughtheyshallnotdisturbeachother,theydon'tunderstandeachothereither.So,theyaredifferent.

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Hereareafewexample:

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Eventhoughbotharedefinedrunningat250Kbaudrate,theyaredifferentatbothhardwareandsoftware(protocol)levels:
Majorhardwaredifferences:
0:ruleofthumb,everythingrelatedtoNMEA2000alsomeans,expensive:(Fromdevicestocable,frombackbonetoterminalresistors,etc.That'sapointwhatSmartCraftis
laughingatNMEA2000.
1.NMEA2000requiresoptoisolation,whichisnotrequiredatJ1939.
2.NMEA2000recommendsMolexminicormicrocfivepinconnectorsandcables(sameorsimilarwithDeviceNetcables),whileJ1939recommendsDeutchconnectors(2
pin,4pin,3pin,and9pinconnectors.18and16AWGwiresrecommended.).
3.NMEA2000maxpowerislimitedto4Aand8A,J1939hasnosuchpowerrequirements/limits.
4.NMEA2000needsdedicatednetworkpowersupplyforoptoisolationcircuits,whichisnotrequiredbyJ1939
5.NMEA2000optoisolationmightbringelectricprotection,butinthemeantimealsobringspotentialissueforCANbittimesynchronization.Networkandsoftwaremustbe
welllaidoutstrictlywiththeNMEA2000standard.J1939isrobustenoughtosurviveinaTruckandautomotiveenvironmentandseemsmuchfriendlyonnetworklayout.
(ThefollowingitemsareaddedafterFeb2013:)
6.NMEA2000supportupto50physicalnodes,whileJ193911support30nodes,J193915support10nodes.
7.NMEA2000networksourceaddressisselfconfiguring,whileJ1939arepredefinedbySAE.
8.NMEA2000supportupto252sourceaddresses(0251=claimable,252253=reserved,254=Null,255=global),whileJ1939support255sourceaddress.
9.NMEA2000supportmax.droplengthof6meters,whileJ193911support1meter,J193915support3meters.
10.NMEA2000support250Kbaudratefor200metersbackbone,whileJ1939hasamax.40meters(fora250Kbaudrate)backbone.SAEismoreconservativethanNMEA.
11.NMEA2000devicesshallbecapableofselfconfigurableaddressing(0to251),whileJ1939canbenonconfiguable,serviceconfigurable,commandconfigurableandself
configurable.
Majorsoftwaredifferences:
1.NMEA2000needsexpensivecertification,which,however,doesn'tguaranteeworkingwithothercertifiedproducts.Thisisanexpensivebutuselessfeature.NMEA2000
paidmoreattentiononmarketandcommercialratherthantechnologyandinnovation.J1939protocolbalancedtherelationshipbetweenmarketingandinnovationmuch
better.
2.NMEA2000LevelAandLevelBcertificationconfuseendusers.Eachproductwillhaveadifferentname,A,A+,B,B+.Thissoftwaremassdoesn'texistatJ1939.
3.NMEA2000usesdynamicnamearbitration,J1939usespredefinedname(sourceaddresses)fornetworknodes.
4.SoftwareimplementationintheNMEA2000networkmanagementisnotsoeasywhileJ1939networkmanagementisrelativelyeasy.
5.NMEA2000wasdefinedandclaimedtobematuredaroundyear2003.J1939wasreleasedinthemiddleof1980s.
Otherdifferences:
1.NMEA2000protocolsanddocumentsarenotsomaturedasJ1939.Forexample,NMEA20001.xand1.ymightnotbecompatibleonsomePGNsandSPNs.Thishasnever
happenedonJ1939protocols.
2.NMEA2000protocoldocumentscostxtimesmorethantheJ1939protocols,whichbringsanheavyoverheadtoNMEA2000developers/users.Thisisoneofthemain
reasonsthattheNMEA2000isn'tsopopularinthemarineindustry.ThesituationmightchangeifNMEA2000definesitselfasthe"Linux"inthemarineworld.

3.NMEA2000isdesignedforMarineindustry,butthisindustryisdominatedbyanotherCANprotocol:SmartCraft.J1939isdesignedforonhighwayindustryanditisthede
factoforUSAdieselandtruckindustry.
BenefitfromNMEA2000:
1.AfterpayingsomuchtoNMEAorganization,YouwillgetaNMEA2000companynameIDwhichwillbeafutureJ1939IDtoo.(Free,kindof,ifyourbusinesscoversboth
NMEA2000andJ1939)
TypicalJ1939Network:

TypicalMicrocablenetwork:

TypicalMinicablenetwork:

SAEJ193911vsJ193915:

LastEdit:March12,2013,02:35:51PMbyAdministrator

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WhydoweneedNMEA2000?
Reply#1on:July09,2009,12:33:26PM

NMEA2000hasbeendesignedbeingsocomplicatedtoimplement,thenwhydowestillneedit?
1.NMEA2000wasoriginallydesignedtoupgradetheagedNMEA0183forGPSandnavigationapplication.ItdoesintroduceaControllerAreaNetwork(CAN)forthosemarine
radar,cruise,andnavigationapplications.So,thosedevicesfinallygetauniqueprotocoltocommunicatewitheachother.
2.NMEA2000usesdynamicsourceaddress.ThisintroducessomepronsandconstotheCANnetwork.Butitdoesprovidesomeflexibilitytoremapthelimitedsourceaddress
(00255)forlargenetworkwhichmighthaveasmanynodesas200.So,thelimitonsourceaddresshasbeenpushedtothemax.capabilityofwhichanormalCANnetwork
canhandle.
3.optoisolatednetworkmayberequiredforsomeextremelyharshenvironments.

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LastEdit:April02,2010,12:48:28PMbyMikeduan

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Mikeduan

OptoIsolationonNMEA2000.

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Reply#2on:September10,2009,10:03:36PM
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1.NMEA2000requiresoptoisolation,whichisnotrequiredatJ1939.

NMEA2000recommendsoptoisolationfordeviceswithmultipleelectronicinterfacesormultiplepowersupplies.
Fordeviceswithonlyoneelectronicinterfaceandonlyonepowersupply,optoisolationisnotnecessary.
J1939networkdoesn'thaveofficialrecommendationonoptoisolation.Formosttruckandschoolbusapplication,theremaybeonlyonemainpowersupply,soitdoesnot
bother.TechnicallyyoucanstilladdoptoisolationtoJ1939networkifmultiplepowersuppliesareused.

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LastEdit:April02,2010,12:50:21PMbyMikeduan

Mikeduan

SinglePowersupplytoaNMEA2000device.

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Reply#3on:September10,2009,10:12:41PM

NMEA2000devicecanbepoweredfromasinglebuspowersupplyifnootherelectronicinterfaceisusedandsinglepowersupplyisused.Thenodemustconsumelessthan
1Acurrent.
(Themax.buspoweris4A(lightcable,e.g.MolexMicrocables)and8A(heavycable,e.g.MolexMinicables),dependingondifferentcablesused.)

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LastEdit:April02,2010,01:00:33PMbyMikeduan

Mikeduan

Re:RelationshipbetweenNMEA2000andJ1939

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Reply#4on:September10,2009,10:18:48PM
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2.NMEA2000protocoldocumentscostxtimesmorethantheJ1939protocols,whichbringanheavyoverheadtoNMEA2000developers/users.

NMEA2000mighthaveslightlyonetimefee,butoveralongrun,theJ1939annualwebsubscriptionmaycostevenmore.

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CANshieldonNMEA2000andJ1939
Reply#5on:September10,2009,10:24:39PM

OnNMEA2000,CANshieldisnotconnectedtotheboardlevel.Itisalwaysthe4wire(Power,Ground,CANHandCANL)connectedwiththecircuitboardinNMEA2000
device.
OnJ193911,CANshieldisconnectedtotheboardwithaResistorCapacitorfilter.AtonepointoftheJ1939backbone,theCANshieldisconnectedtobatterynegative.
OnJ193915,CANshieldisnotusedatall.

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NetworksizebetweenNMEA2000andSAEJ1939
Reply#6on:September10,2009,10:54:27PM

UnderNMEA2000:
Maximumphysicalnodes:upto50connections
MaximumFunctionalnodes:upto254networkaddresses
Maximumbackbonelength:upto200meters(at250Kbits/secondbitrate)
Maximumstubdroplength:upto6meter
Physicalmedia:5wires(CANH,CANL,Power,Ground,Shield)
Shield:notconnectwithcircuitboard
SAEJ193911(JacketedShieldedTwistedPair(STP)0.5mm2/20AWGand0.8mm2/18AWGwirescanbeused):
MaximumnumberofECUs:isfixedto30
MaximumBusLength(notincludingcablestubs):40meters
MaximumCableStublength:1meter,thecablestublengthforthediagnosticconnectoris0.66metermaximumforthevehicleand0.33metermaximumfortheoffboard.
Physicalmedia:3wires(CANH,CANL,Shield),require3pinconnectorconceptwhenused.
Shield:connectedtonetworkdrainwire.
SAEJ193915(Jackedunshieldedtwistedpair(UTP)0.5mm2/20AWGand0.8mm2/18AWGwirescanbeusedallowsthevehicleintegratortodesignareducednetworkto
meetdesignandcostgoalswithcomparableperformancetotheJ193911network):
MaximumnumberofECUs:isfixedat10.(Duetotheextendedstublengthsfrom1meterto3meters.)
MaximumBusLength:40meters
CableStubLength(includedinBusLength):3meters
AnECUthatcontainsaninternal120terminalresistorshallbedesignatedasaTypeIIJ193915ECU,andshallhaveauniquemarkingontheoutsidehousingtoeasily
determinetheinternalterminalresistorfeature.(J193911doesn'tallowTerminalresistorlocatewithinanECU)
ThetypeofconnectorisnotspecifiedforimplementingtheJ193915networkanda"standard"connectorisnotrequired.AnECUmaybeconnectedtothenetworkwitheither
ahardspliceorconnector.Ifaconnectorisused,itshallmeettheconnectorelectricalperformancerequirementsinJ193911.
Physicalmedia:2wires(CANH,CANL)Noshieldwire.

LastEdit:April02,2010,01:01:55PMbyMikeduan

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NMEA2000FutureFeaturesandCapabilities
Reply#7on:June29,2010,03:28:23PM

Accordingtothecommittee,Someofthefollowingcapabilitieswillbeaddedinthenearfuture:
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AlarmsandFaultsasetoftoolsforasuiteofalarmsandfaults.ThissubcommitteehasreceivedinputfromtheIECINSgroup

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PowerGenerationPGNsarebeingcreatedforstatusandcontrolofpowergenerationdevices,suchasgenerators,alternators,inverters,hybrids,andshorepoweron
ships

ElectricalPowerGenerationandDistributionPGNsarebeingdevelopedforthedeliveryofpoweronvesselsidentifyingloads,loadsharing,andvirtualbreakers.

24VoltSystemsThereisasubcommitteestudyingthecomplexityofadding24voltsystemstoNMEA2000,definingtherulesandrequirements.

CommonConfigurationTherehasbeenagreatdealofdemandthatmanufacturerAdevicesonthenetworkcanconfiguremanufacturerBdevicesonthenetwork

IntelligentGatewaysGatewaythataresmartandcancommunicateandrecognizedevicesonbothsidesofthegatewayandbeabletotransmitontheNMEA2000
networkstatusofthedeviceonthe
othersideofthegateway.SomecompaniestodayareindevelopmentofNMEA0183toNMEA2000Gateways.

NMEA2000Bridgestheabilitytobridgetoothernetworkprotocols

GalileocollaboratingwithWorkingGroup
ELoranhavehaddiscussionwithWorkingGroup

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NMEA2000Class1devicesandClass2devices
Reply#8on:June29,2010,03:36:47PM

NMEA2000Productcertificationisgrantedfortwoclassesandattwolevelswithinthoseclasses.
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1.Class1devices:generallyhaveasingleNMEA2000interfacethatisusedforallcommunicationwithotherdevices.

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2.Class2devices:havedualredundantNMEA2000interfacesintendedtobeconnectedtoredundantNMEA2000backbones,whereparametergroupsareintendedtobe
transmittedinparallelonbothinterfaces.

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Note1:AdditionalrequirementsareplacedonClass2devicestoensurecorrectidentificationofidenticalparametergroupswhenreceivedbyanotherClass2device
connectedtothesametwoNMEA2000backbones.
Note2:Bridgesmaybecertifiedforeitherclasshowever,abridgewithtwoNMEA2000backboneconnectionswouldusuallybeaClass1devicebecauseparametergroups
aretransmittedoneachbackboneindependentoftheother.

LastEdit:June29,2010,03:42:10PMbyMikeduan

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NMEA2000LeveAandBcertification
Reply#9on:June30,2010,12:08:34AM

Twolevels,LevelAandLevelB,havebeenestablishedinordertoaccommodateawiderangeofdeviceswithvaryingprocessingresources.
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Inparticular,LevelBwasestablishedtoaccommodatesimpledeviceswithminimalprocessingpowerandmemory.Onemainimpedimenttolowpower,minimalmemory
implementationswasimplementingtheISOTransportProtocol,whichdependsonalargeamountofmemoryforbuffering.LevelBwasfurthersimplifiedbyomitting
requirementstoimplementcomplexparametergroupswithmultiplefunctionsthatwereonlyapparentafterexaminingthedatacontainedwithintheframe.Withthese
reductionsincomplexity,LevelBdevicesarenowpossibleusingsimplemailboxstyleinterruptmechanismsusedinlesspowerfulsystems.
ThetablebelowsummarizestheminimumparametergroupsrequiredforbothLevelAandLevelBimplementations.

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Inadditiontocertificationofstandardselfcontainedproducts,NMEA2000containsprovisionsforthirdpartyproducts.Thirdpartyproductsarethoseproductsthatdonot
entirelymeettherequirementsforNMEA2000Certificationuntilconnectedtoorinstalledonanotherproduct,usuallymanufacturedbyanothermanufacturer.Software
packages,suchaschartplottingprogramsorinstrumentationprograms,areclearexamplesofthirdpartyproducts.Softwarepackagesarenotfunctionaluntilinstalledona
computerorembeddedprocessingdevice,andtheycannotbetestedforcertificationseparately.

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2000andJ1939

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