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supposedly 17-20 million years old.3 This find was quite interesting because the
magnolia leaves were found in water logged clay deposits - i.e., they were still wet! Of
course, DNA disintegrates fairly rapidly when in contact with water (complete
disintegration in less than 5,000 years).33 Yet, this experiment was repeated with several
scientists reporting the retrieval of authentic plant cpDNA in the 700-1500 bp size
range.34,35
magnolia leaf, Savante Pääbo exclaimed, "The clay was wet, however, and one
wonders how DNA could have survived the damaging influence of water for so long." 24
Good question. However, most of the supposedly "ancient" DNA which has been
recovered is from insects and plants preserved in dry amber, including a termite
estimated to be 25-30 million years old,2 a Hymenaea leaf thought to be 25-40 million
years old5 and a weevil estimated to be 120-135 million years old.1 The weevil DNA, in
particular, was once thought to be 80 million years older than any other DNA specimen
Even more amazing than this though are the findings of Dr. Cano, a microbiologist at
California State Polytechnic University. What Dr. Cano did was dissect a Dominican
stingless bee trapped in amber, which was thought to be 25 to 40 million years old.
What he found were very well preserved bacterial spores inside. In fact they were so
well preserved that they actually grew when placed in the right environment. In other
words, they were still alive! And, interestingly enough, their DNA closely matched the
DNA of modern bacteria that grow inside modern bees.26 Also, fairly recently, viable
bacterial endospores and proteobacteria were isolated from primary (halite) salt crystals
dated at over 250 million years old.30,36 The experiments were conducted in dedicated
clean laboratory facilities. So, contamination is thought to be unlikely in this case. So, of
course, the age of the crystals was subsequently questioned.33,37 Logically, since it
stretches the imagination that any form of living thing could remain viable for such long
periods of time, perhaps the dating methods used to date the crystals were wrong?
Good thinking! Also, it is interesting to note that the sequences from the study of
Vreeland et al. [ref. 30] show only 1–3 substitution differences from contemporary
bacterial sequences, whereas known mutation rates among related bacteria would have
suggested 59 differences.33
In this same line, the DNA extracted from amber, even though it was maintained in a
fairly dry environment, is also just as problematic as DNA sequences from ancient salt
crystals. R. John Parkes commented in Nature concerning this and other similar
phenomena by noting that, "There is also the question of how bacterial biopolymers can
remain intact over millions of years in dormant bacteria; or, conversely, if bacteria are
metabolically active enough to repair biopolymers, this raises the question of what
Regardless of these serious problems, such discoveries have been widely reported
by the media without remark regarding the difficulty that these finds present for the
standard geological time scale. DNA, like all other biological macromolecules, is
generally quite unstable and spontaneously breaks down - especially when hydrated or
"wet". In living cells, DNA is maintained by repair mechanisms, but after death DNA self-
destructs at a rather rapid rate. In a published review of the chemical stability of DNA,
Tomas Lindahl (1993) noted, “Deprived of the repair mechanisms provided in living
cells, fully hydrated DNA is spontaneously degraded to short fragments over a time
period of several thousand years at moderate temperatures”. Lindahl went on to argue
for the "contamination" of all such specimens by modern DNA suggesting that, "The
apparent observation that fully hydrated plant DNA might be retained in high-molecular
mass form for 20 million years is incompatible with the known properties of chemical
bewilderment noting, "That DNA could survive for such a staggering length of time was
In a similar vein, Sykes (1991) has commented that in vitro estimates of the rate of
spontaneous hydrolysis imply that no DNA would remain intact much beyond 10,000
years. In his review paper, Lindahl goes on to argue that, “It seems feasible that useful
DNA sequences tens of thousands of years old could be recovered, particularly if the
fossil has been retained at low temperature.” As an example Lindahl referred to DNA
So, our knowledge of DNA stability makes it seem highly improbable that this
molecule could be preserved for more than a few tens of thousands of years at most.
Others have noted that, "Certain physical limits seem inescapable. In approximately
50,000 years, water alone strips bases from the DNA and leads to the breakage of
strands into pieces so small that no information can be retrieved from them. Oxygen
also contributes to the destruction of DNA. Even in ideal conditions–in the absence of
water and oxygen and at low temperature–background radiation must finally erase all
genetic information."27 Many other authors have suggested a "maximal DNA survival of
cases, tens of millions of years old. There is obviously a problem here. It is for this
reason that some scientists are now viewing some of the reported finds (especially
those that do not involve preservation in amber) skeptically. It has been argued that
some of the detected residues were the result of contamination by modern DNA.33 For
example, "A recent large-scale study performed under strict aDNA conditions failed to
obtain endogenous DNA from amber insects despite the application of several different
extraction and PCR protocols. Even attempts to reproducibly amplify endogenous DNA
from the same extracts used in the original claim (i.e. from the 25–40 Myr amber
preserved bee) have failed. Additionally, parts of the reported 120–135 Myr weevil
sequence were subsequently shown to be of fungal origin and none of the amber
sequences passed relative rates tests."33 So, scientists have since been, or at least
Regardless, all data suggesting the recovery of truly ancient DNA does not sit
Despite the reproducible evidence that DNA as well as many proteins are rather
unstable and decay relatively rapidly, the positive reported findings of such existent
material in fossils supposedly millions of years old, seems rather intriguing. For
example: In 1992, Dr. Muyzer, et al., used polymerase chain reaction (PCR) to amplify
a protein that they suspected to be osteocalcin from two Cretaceous dinosaurs
identified as “Lambeosaurus F38” (which they believe to be 75.5 million years old),
“Pachyrhinosaurus F39” (supposedly 73.25 millions years old), and a third dinosaur
sample identified only as “F33”. They used two different methods to determine if this
The first method used an immunological reaction. Here is how it works: When a few
molecules of a foreign substance are injected into an animal, that animal’s immune
system will naturally produce antibodies to fight it. The kind of antibodies it produces
depends on the kind of foreign material introduced. Furthermore, the animal’s immune
system will produce lots of antibody cells in response to just a few foreign molecules, so
the antibodies are much easier to detect than the foreign material itself.
The researchers took some osteocalcin from alligator bones and injected it into a
rabbit to see what kind of antibodies the rabbit produced to fight off the osteocalcin.
Then they took some powdered dinosaur bones and injected it into the rabbit, and it
produced the same kind of antibodies, indirectly indicating that there was osteocalcin in
the powdered dinosaur bones. The second method used a direct measurement of
Their conclusion was that both methods showed osteocalcin was still present in the
three different dinosaur bones they analyzed. This was published in October, 1992. The
literature search found that all the articles on organic material still present in dinosaur
bones were published from April 1990 until November 1994 (As far as I can tell, there
has been nothing published in Nature or Science on the subject since then). In the
same publication as Dr. Muyzer 7, Dr. Matthew Collins made the following statement:
"Dinosaurs hold an enduring fascination. We reported the detection of a protein in a
dinosaur bone, published at around the same time as the release of Steven Spielberg's
blockbuster, Jurassic Park, [so it] was bound to receive the full media treatment. Our
report claimed to have detected osteocalcin immunologically and also to have found an
unusual amino acid g-carboxyglutamic acid (Gla) in a dinosaur bone from immature
very abundant in bone, binds strongly to it and has the distinction of being the only
Some articles suggested that the finding had brought forward the chances of
successfully turning the science fiction of Jurassic Park into scientific fact. Elsevier
magazine (2/10/93) stated "[The detection of osteocalcin] has set other scientists
thinking, if it is possible for a protein, perhaps it is also possible for DNA". The Daily
Telegraph even suggested that trend-setting restaurateurs may start serving dinosaur
soup! The scientific community was more skeptical. Jeff Bada (an experienced protein
geochemist) warned in a 1992 interview in Science News, "I worry greatly about the
stability of Gla. Why would it remain unaltered for tens of millions of years?".
Scientists are asking, "How can this protein be so fresh when it is contained in such
old bones?" Perhaps we should consider the possibility that they will never find the
answer because they might be asking the wrong question. Maybe they should ask,
"How can these bones be so old when they contain such fresh protein?" That throws a
whole new light on the subject. They will not ever figure out how protein and DNA can
last for tens of millions of years without breaking down if protein and DNA cannot really
last for tens of millions of years. They might just as well be wasting their time.
Protein
bones of 65 million-year-old
quite a mystery.
"The lab filled with murmurs of amazement, for I had focused on something inside
the vessels that none of us had ever noticed before: tiny round objects, translucent red
with a dark center. Then a colleague took one look at them and shouted, 'You've got red
blood cells. You've got red blood cells!'. It was exactly like looking at a slice of modern
bone. But, of course, I couldn’t believe it. I said to the lab technician: 'The bones, after
all, are 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long?'" 13,14
This account was given by Mary Schweitzer, a PhD student at the time, from
Montana State University. A well preserved Tyrannosaurus rex skeleton had been found
in 1990 and brought for analysis to Montana State University. During microscopic
examination of the fossilized remains, it was noted that some portions of the long bones
had not mineralized, but were in fact original bone. Upon closer examination it was
noted that within the vascular system of this bone were what appeared to be red blood
cells (note retained nucleus in the center of the apparent RBCs and the fact that reptiles
and bird generally retain the RBC nucleus while mammals, like humans, do not). Of
course, this did not seem possible since the survival of intact red blood cells for some
Further testing of these cells was done to attempt to disprove the notion that they
could possibly be red blood cells. Several analytical techniques were used to
resonance and Raman spectroscopy (RR) and electron spin resonance (ESR). These
techniques did identify the presence of the heme group molecule, but the detection
limits of these methods were not able to rule-out or rule-in the presence of hemoglobin
or myoglobin proteins due to the small amount of specimen available. So, Schweitzer
and her team decided to use a more sensitive detection method, the immune system.
They injected some of the T. rex extract into laboratory rats to see if these rats would
mount an immune response to the foreign T. rex material. And, the rats did mount a
very specific immune response against hemoglobin. This immune response was not
only against heme, but hemoglobin, and not just hemoglobin in general, but against a
certain type of hemoglobin.42 The reaction was strongest against pigeon and rabbit
hemoglobin. There was also a weak reaction against turkey hemoglobin, but there was
no reaction against snake hemoglobin. The specificity of these reactions were further
Consider the conclusions that Schweitzer and her team made concerning these
findings:
"The production of antibodies specific for hemoglobin in two rats injected with the
in the bone extract. . . That the antisera did not react with snake hemoglobin shows that
the reactivity is specific and not artifact. . . When considered as a whole, the results
support the hypothesis that heme prosthetic groups and hemoglobin fragments were
specific immune
types of hemoglobin
formed did not react against snake hemoglobin indicating that the antibody reactivity
was "specific and not artifact." The question is, how much of the original T. rex
hemoglobin molecule would need to be intact to elicit such a specific immune response
intact protein, and even very small peptides are immunogenic when complexed with
larger organic molecules . . . even after extensive degradation has occurred."42 But how
extensively, roughly, could the hemoglobin molecules have degraded and yet retain their
ability to elicit a fairly strong and quite specific immune reaction in laboratory rats? In
order to obtain such strongly specific immunogenicity it would seem that a significant
percentage of the globin portion of the hemoglobin molecule would need to be intact.
But, how could a protein of any significant size large enough to elicit such a specific
immune response be maintained over the course of 65 million years? One might very
reasonably conclude that natural decay, over this amount of time, would completely
destroy the ability of hemoglobin or the required larger fragments of degraded
The explanation for this phenomenon, given later by Dr. Horner (Schweitzer's
boss) and even Schweitzer herself, was that the tougher heme molecule survived the
65 million years with maybe three or four amino acids of the original globin molecules
"But the heme itself is too small to be immunogenic [only about 652 daltons]. We
believe that there were possibly 3-4 amino acids from the original protein attached to
the heme, and that was what may have spiked the immune response." 17
able to tell, the degree of immune response specificity noted by Schweitzer et al. has
never been realized in any confirming experiment with so few hemoglobin amino acids
stuck to a heme group and I doubt that such an attempted experiment will ever be
successful.
There are several reasons why I feel this way. For one thing, a certain minimum
antigen size is required before it can elicit an immune response. The most potent
100,000da (~740aa - Note: the average amino acid weighs ~135da). Substances
weighing less than 10,000da (~75aa) are only weakly immunogenic, and those foreign
proteins/antigens weighing less than 1,000da (~7aa) are usually completely non-
immunogenic. Homopolymers (repeats of the same amino acid) are pretty much non-
immunogenicity increases with structural complexity. Also, aromatic amino acids, such
aromatic amino acids. For example, the addition of tyrosine to a co-polymer made up of
glutamate and lysine reduces the size limitation to ~15,000da (~100aa) and adding
tyrosine and phenylalanine together reduces the minimum to 4,000da (~30aa). Also, it
is all four levels of protein structure (1o, 2o, 3o, & 4o) that influence immunogenicity - not
amino acids as part of an epitope on a larger protein molecule, but they usually are not
immunogenic without first being part of a larger molecule. Also, epitopes are not usually
sequential in nature but are assembled by protein folding. This means that a rather
large portion of the original molecule usually needs to be intact in order for most
epitopes to remain intact. Epitopes with definite three-dimensional shapes and charged
amino acids are particularly well recognized by antibodies. The average epitope
probably involves about 7 to 15 contact amino acid residues and a few of these may be
critical to the epitope's specificity and the avidity of the antibody-antigen reaction.18-21
Antigen presenting cells (APCs) like macrophages, dendritic cells, and even B-
cells are responsible for antigen processing and the presentation of epitopes/antigens to
the T-cells. T-cells do not recognize the initial foreign antigen directly. They only
molecules. So, in order to activate T-cells (required for cellular immunity and very
helpful in humoral immunity), the foreign antigen must first be recognized as "foreign" by
the APC cells. This initial APC recognition requires more than just a handful of amino
acids floating around or else there would be complete meltdown of the immune system.
In fact, generally speaking, molecules with a molecular weight less than 10,000da
(~75aa) are only weakly immunogenic when picked up by APC cells. Significant
Given all this, it seems quite difficult for me to imagine how "3 or 4" amino acids
stuck to a heme group could elicit an immune response that was so specific for a certain
type of hemoglobin. Recall that the heme molecule, by itself, only has a molecular
weight of around 652da. To make a strong as well as specific immunogen (such as the
strongly specific hemoglobin immunity developed in rats exposed to T. rex extract in this
case) one might expect the immunogenic hemoglobin molecule to be at least 10,000da
(~75aa or so) in size.18-21 Certainly then, a heme group with 3 or 4 amino acids attached
to it (just over 1,000da) would not seem to give rise to the relatively strong and specific
However, the argument is sometimes used that Schweitzer failed to identify any
specific size of hemoglobin fragment by gel electrophoresis. What happened is that the
electrophoretic pattern observed by Schweitzer when she ran the T. rex proteins
through the gel was a diffuse or smeared pattern. This means that there were no
discrete clusters of proteins that were the same size. But this is only to be expected
since a wide range of protein sizes would only be expected after an extended period of
degradation. The fact of the matter is though that hemoglobin fragments ranging
between 30 and 200 amino acids in size where definitely present in the T. rex extract
Another argument often used is that the molecules that elicited the immune
response were indeed quite large, but they were made up of fragments of smaller
hemoglobin molecules and other organic and inorganic molecules to form a new
collective molecule. The problem here is that there is that this hypothesis has not been
tested or demonstrated. Beyond this it doesn't seem very likely. For one thing heme is
non-covalently bonded to the globin portion of the hemoglobin molecule. If the much
stronger covalent bonds were broken and rearranged so much between the remaining
amino acids, how is it reasonable that the relatively weak non-covalent bond between
the amino acids and the heme group would be maintained? Also, such rearrangement
of covalent bonds would have distorted the covalent bonds within the amino acids
themselves as well as between the covalent bonds they share with other amino acids.
This level of decay would alter the type of amino acids or destroy them as amino acids
transport it on a helicopter.
supposed to be some 68
delicate blood vessels with what appear to be intact red blood cells and other type of
cells like osteocytes - which are bone forming cells. These vessels were still soft,
in most instances.31
This find calls into question not only the nature of the fossilization process, but also
the age of these fossils. How such soft tissue preservation and detail could be realized
comments that, "We may not really know as much about how fossils are preserved as
we think . . .” 31 Now, if that is not an understatement I'm not sure what is.
So, it seems rather clear, despite the objections of many evolutionists, to include
Schweitzer herself, that a 1,000da molecule would elicit an extremely weak response at
best and
would not
necessarily
elicit a specific
response to a
certain type of
hemoglobin
molecule
since surface
epitopes are
generally
more specific in their antigenic nature than are buried epitopes (i.e., heme is somewhat
would also be somewhat hidden). How then is it remotely logical to suggest that a
molecule weighing just over 1,000da (a heme group plus 3 or 4 amino acids) could elicit
light of the additional recent finds of even more striking soft tissue and blood cell
preservation, it seems much more likely that such an immune response so specific for
hemoglobin than many scientists seem to even consider. Of course, one can't really
blame them because explaining how delicate soft tissue vessels (with obvious red blood
cells inside containing relatively large portions of hemoglobin molecules) could remain
intact for over 65 million years seems just a little bit difficult.
All of this is a rather mute point, of course, in light of the fact that T. rex collagen
author of one of the studies. "That's just mind boggling how much preservation there is
in these bones."
The new finding will be viewed skeptically, admitted one of the researchers involved
in the two studies. "It's very, very, very controversial because most people have gone on
record saying there's an absolute time limit to anything that's protein or DNA," said Mary
D.C., who was not involved in either study, said the protein findings are robust. "Here
are the pieces of the protein. If you're going to refute this you have to explain how these
pieces got in there," Carrano said in a telephone interview. "It's not another molecule
mimicking the protein and giving off a similar signal. This is the actual sequence."32
Of course, despite this surprising turn of events, scientists do not question the
notion that the dinosaur bones really are tens of millions of years old. They still assume
the long ages and evolutionary relationship that they assumed before - as per the
following passages:
A comparison by Asara's team of the amino-acid sequence from the T. rex collagen
remarkable similarity to that of chickens. Amino acids are the molecular building blocks
of proteins; there are 20 of them used by organisms to build proteins, and their precise
"I'm grateful that he was able to get the [amino acid] sequences out. That's the Holy
Grail," Schweitzer told LiveScience. . . Until now, family trees have been constructed
and bolsters previous research showing that birds evolved from dinosaurs and that birds
"Here we have a real molecule from a real dinosaur, and it's much more similar to a
Such finds are much more consistent with a fairly recent catastrophic burial within
just a few thousand years of time. Non-catastrophic burial would allow for rapid
biodegradation of such delicate soft tissues. Time itself destroys soft tissues as well as
DNA and proteins in short order. Current real-time observations suggest that bio-
proteins could not remain intact more than a few tens of thousands of years - 100,000
years at the very outside limit of protein decay. The fact that such proteins are found,
intact, in bones supposedly older than 65 million years is simply inconsistent with such
an assumed age - by a few orders of magnitude. For the same reason that the age of
ancient salt crystals thought to be 250 to 450 million years old was questioned when
living bacterial spores were discovered inside,33 the age of 65 million-year-old T. rex
bones should be questioned when intact elastic soft tissues and protein sequences are
found inside.
Carbon 14
I think that one further study should be done. This study should be a Carbon 14
dating of this organic material as well as other “fossilized” organic material. If any
specimens supposedly millions of years old, then a real problem arises that is
equivalent to finding a hominid in the Cambrian. This, combined with the fresh DNA and
protein problem seems to me to be quite a quandary for the theory of evolution. At least
I have not found a good solution advocated in the scientific literature to explain many of
8. D.C. Lowe, "Problems Associated with the Use of Coal as a Source of 14C Free
Background Material," Radiocarbon, 1989, 31:117-120.
11. Vogel, Nelson and Southon, Radiocarbon, Vol. 29, No. 3, 1987
12. Giem PAL. 1997b. Carbon-14 dating methods and experimental implications. Origins
24:50-64.
13. M. Schweitzer and T. Staedter, 'The Real Jurassic Park', Earth , June 1997 pp. 55-57.
14. Morell, V., Dino DNA: The hunt and the hype, Science 261(5118):160–162, 9 July 1993.
15. Schweitzer Mary, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 94, p 6291.
16. Mary H. Schweitzer,* Mark Marshall, Keith Carron, D. Scott Bohle, Scott C. Busse, Ernst
V. Arnold, Darlene Barnard, J. R. Horner*, and Jean R. Starkey, Heme compounds in
dinosaur trabecular bone, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Evolution, Vol. 94, pp. 6291-6296,
June 1997 ( http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/94/12/6291 )
18. http://www.bio.davidson.edu/old_site/student/Lindthesis/Amy's%20Thesis.html
19. http://www.med.unc.edu/wrkunits/3ctrpgm/pmbb/mbt/GLOS.htm
20. http://bioweb.wku.edu/faculty/Davis/Biol328/Lecture5.html
21. http://www.coloradobiolabs.com/science.htm
22. http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/immunology/APC_text.htm
23. http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/immunology/spec_imm_cells.htm
24. Svante Pääbo, “Ancient DNA,” Scientific American, Vol. 269, November 1993, p. 92.
25. Jeremy Cherfas, “Ancient DNA: Still Busy after Death,” Science, Vol. 253, 20 September
1991, p. 1354.
28. Tomas Lindahl, “Instability and Decay of the Primary Structure of DNA,” Nature, Vol. 362,
22 April 1993, p. 714.
29. R. John Parkes, “A Case of Bacterial Immortality?” Nature, Vol. 407, 19 October 2000,
pp. 844–845.
31. Mary H. Schweitzer, Jennifer L. Wittmeyer, John R. Horner, Jan B. Toporski, Soft-Tissue
Vessels and Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus rex, Science, March 25, 2005
32. Jeanna Bryner, T. Rex Related to Chickens, LiveScience ( Link ) Last Accessed: April 20,
2007; See also: Sharon Begley, T. Rex and His Family, Newsweek, April 23, 2007
33. Martin B. Hebsgaard, Matthew J. Phillip and Eske Willerslev, "Geologically ancient DNA:
fact or artefact?" TRENDS in Microbiology, Vol.13 No.5, May 2005 ( Link )
34. Soltis, P.S. et al. (1992), "An rbcL sequence from a Miocene Taxodium (bald cypress)",
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U. S. A. 89, 449–451
35. Kim, S. et al. (2004) "DNA sequences from Miocene fossils: An ndhF sequence of
Magnolia Latahensis (Magnoliaceae) and an rbcL sequence of Persea
pseudocarolinensis (Lauraceae)", Am. J. Bot. 91, 615–620
36. Fish, S.A. et al. (2002) "Recovery of 16S ribosomal RNA gene fragments from ancient
halite." Nature 417, 432–436
37. Hazen, R.M. and Roedder, E. (2001) "How old are bacteria from the Permian age?"
Nature 411, 155–156