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A response to Joe Ventilacions THE

TRINITY AND THE INCARNATION:


TRUTH OR FALLACY?
by Riel Lopez

Joe Ventilacion, INC minister, debater

Joe Ventilacion is a well know debater in the INC and I recognized his capabilities of
conditioning the mind of his listeners which almost made me convinced of what he is
saying. In fact, he is the first debater of INC that know while looking for INC debate in
youtube 3 years ago. He helped a lot to understand the teaching of INC and my
curiosity of their reasoning against the Catholic Doctrine. Recently, an INC member
brought up a writing of Joe Ventilacion which I have not read before. It is a 3,000-plusword article that is supposes to disprove the Catholic doctrine of Holy Trinity and the
Incarnation which you can read here: THE TRINITY AND THE INCARNATION:
TRUTH OR FALLACY?
Joe first shared that many people misunderstood their teaching and accused them for
belittling Lord Jesus. Ive notice that the first few paragraphs are trying to prove that
Jesus was Man. He also brought up some peoples experiences before they become
Iglesia ni Cristo that used to believe that Jesus is God and they ultimately believe that
Jesus is man after they were presented with biblical basis. He is saying it as if to let
anyone think that Catholic Church was only teaching that Jesus was God and the not a
man. Despite of how many years Joe is opposing the Catholic Doctrine he still fails to
distinguish the difference between INC teachings and Catholic teachings about Jesus
nature.
We are aware that Jesus is Man.
Joe gives so much important in assertion that Jesus is Man rather than proving that
Christ is not God. Obviously, those people who were converted to INC after asking
questions in the INC are ignorant of the Catholic Doctrine. This is one of the problems
with INC reasoning when it comes to the belief about Jesus nature, they fail to
recognize the doctrine of Catholic Church that Jesus is Man. Catholics believe that
Jesus is one person that posses two nature: human and divine, this makes Jesus as a
divine person. Since Jesus is a person with two natures, Jesus is both Man and God.
Whether Mr. Ventilacion accept or reject his, he should recognize that this is what the
Catholic Church is teaching about the nature of Jesus. And bringing up biblical proof
that Jesus is man is good but a waste in trying to prove that Catholic Church is wrong
for we also agree to that. Jesus is MAN! AMEN!

Jesus is man therefore he is not God.?


This is what follows in the minds of listeners of Joe. However, Jesus is man therefore
he is not God is a wrong conclusion to come up with even if they bring up: Hos 11:9,
Jn 4:24 and Luke 24:39. Before anyone decides to use that conclusion he must first
know about nature. To simply say it, natures answers the question what. Man posses
a human nature and God posses a divine nature. Natures are normally taken from
parents for example, the son of dog is dog, the son of a cat is cat and surely, the son of
God is God. However, Jesus did not have a human father so He could not be a human
only. The substance of the body of Jesus was provided from the substance of Blessed
Mary. This is one of the examples that INC failed to or decided not to teaching among
their members about natures and therefore they are misleading about the nature of
Christ.
Now lets consider the passages they used to deny the dual nature of Christ:
Hos 11:9 ..For I am God, and not a man. Since Jesus is Man it seems that this verse
gives the impossibility of Jesus as God but that is not true. INC failed to consider that
this passage was written before Christ was born here on earth, it is the time when his
Son did not assume the human nature yet. To have a rough analogy it is like saying Im
15 years old, but of course years later will never be the same. It does not mean that
God change, God remained as spirit in the person of the Father, just as God remained
as saviour in the person of the Son.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth. Since
God is spirit and Jesus is man, is he no longer qualified as God? Not entirely true for
God as spirit remains true in the person of the Father, Jesus recognize God as spirit for
he is also a man and since man is under God thats why Jesus also prays to the
Father.
Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost
does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Jesus is not trying to say here See I have flesh and bones but God is spirit so I am not
God, The true context of this verse shows that Jesus indeed resurrected. Jesus here
is trying to convince that he is not an apparition, but he indeed resurrected. This verse
is not supposed to show up since it is an inevitable fact that Jesus is man, and man
has flesh and bones.
Here are two verses that should prove to everyone that Jesus does not only posses
human nature
Philippians 2:6-8:
"...though he was by nature GOD, did not consider being equal to GOD a thing to be
clung to,
but emptied Himself, taking the nature of a slave and being made like unto men.
And appearing in the form of man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death,
even to death on a cross."
Elucidation of Philippians 2:6-8;
1. He was by nature GOD.
2. He took the nature of a slave (man).
3. He was made like unto men.

4. He appeared in the form of man. If he is already man, why take a form which he
already is?
Apostles believed that Christ was man, and that belief still exists in the Catholic
Church. What the INC taught that Jesus is only man and not God is not what the
Apostles taught but Felix Manalos private interpretation. INC might deny that they
believe Jesus is only a man because they believe that Jesus is a very special man, but
the subject is about nature of Christ, not attributes. INC may only believe that Christ
has one or two natures and since INC believe that Jesus has only one nature then it is
only right to say that INC believe that Jesus is only a man (not God).
If he were God, he could have said so when he was still here on earth
It seems the INC beliefs are the only things that Jesus was speaking vocally such as
he is man. Paul already gave the reason why Jesus did not ever say I AM GOD
vocally. Paul describe Christ was doing...Though he was by nature GOD, did not
consider being equal to GOD a thing to be clung to. Jesus gave us an example of
humility and wants us to imitate his humility. Telling everyone that he is God would
spoil his purpose of being an example of a humble man. That is why Christ sometimes
addresses himself as the Son of Man instead of Son of God.
Hypostatic Union is grossly Unbiblical?

The oldest known icon of Christ Pantocrator - Saint Catherine's Monastery. The two different facial
expressions on either side emphasize Christ's dual nature as both divine and human

Joe is really good in labelling the doctrines of the Catholic Church with fancy
descriptions. Joe has huge guts in saying that there are no biblical verses that proves
the Catholic Doctrines defined in the Church Councils instead of brining up how
Catholic Church explained their doctrine and refute it. Is it really unbiblical or Joe just
refused to bring up verses that prove the hypostatic union for his deception? Hypostatic
Union is the mystery of the union of the divine nature of Christ with His human nature.
Christ has two minds and two wills, united in the Divine Word. Fortunately, INC and
Catholics both agree that Christ posses a human nature and he is man, so there will be
and there should no dispute about that subject. The divine nature of Christ can be
deduced in Jn 1:1"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD; and
the Word was GOD." 'In the beginning was', implies time, since eternity has no

beginning, and it has no ending. "The Word", was already in existence when GOD
created time in Genesis 1:1-5. Consequently, the Word existed before the beginning of
time, He thus being outside of time. The Word already 'was' in the beginning. The
Word is therefore eternal. Joe may bring up a version that suits their favor because the
Bible becomes the dependent of their doctrine. That version states the verse asWord
was divine. Even if that version replaced the word God with divine, the irrefutable
fact that the Word existed before time and being eternal in this single verse proves that
Christ who is the Word of God posses a divine nature therefore, God.
The Word is Just A Plan!
The cry of INC when they are presented with John 1:1. But if the Word is just a
concept, a mere idea, or a plan, the proper pronoun should have been It not
He. John fully knows that the Word is a Person, for in verse 1:10, John refers to the
true light as a He, a real person: He was in the world, and the world came to be
through him, but the world did not know him. He came to what was his own, but his
own people 7 did not accept him (Jn 1:10-11). Thus, if the John refers to the true light
as a He and to the Word also as a He, and this Word became flesh and dwelt among
us (Jn 1:14), then there is no doubt that John really refers to the Word as a person and
not a mere concept.
The very powerful verse that gives me so much confidence about the divine nature of
Christ is when the Bible states the fact that Christ from heaven and those who came
from heaven is ABOVE ALL!:
John 8: 23 But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this
world; I am not of this world.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of
heaven.
John 3:31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the
earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes
from heaven is above all. emphasis
A teaching that Jesus is not God defies the verses above that gives so much clarity
about Jesus.
THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD! Jn 17:1,3
... 'Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your Son, so that the Son may give glory
to you ... And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus
Christ, whom you sent"
This is the main passage where INC get the idea that Jesus could not be God since
even Christ in his prayer was teaching the Father is the only true God, therefore Jesus
could not be God. This is how shallow INC can only understand the meaning of Christ
prayer and making this passage as basis Gods true nature without considering the
other verses. INC failed to realize it is more than that.
First of all, the text speaks about the glorification of the Father by the Son, and the Son
by the Father (v 1).

Secondly, it speaks about the son having authority over all human beings and having
power to give eternal life (v2)
Thirdly, it speaks about the fact that knowing the one true god is inseparable from
knowing Jesus Christ.
According to Hilary, Christ says, you the only true God, in a way that does not
exclude another. He does not say without qualification, you the only, but adds and
Jesus Christ whom you have sent. It is like saying: that they know you and Jesus
Christ whom you have sent to be the one and only true God. This is a pattern of
speaking that we also use when we say [in the Gloria]: You alone, Jesus Christ, are
the most high, together with the Holy Spirit. No mention is made of the Holy Spirit
because whenever the Father and the Son are mentioned, and especially in matters
pertaining to the grandeur of the divinity, the Holy Spirit, who is the bond of the Father
and Son, is implied.
According to St. Augustine, the Apostle said that Christ [is] the power of God and the
Wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24). Now it is clear that we cannot call anyone God unless he
has divine power and wisdom. Therefore, since these people held that the Father was
wisdom, which is the Son, they held further that the Father considered without the Son
would not be God. And the same applies to the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Now let us not forget that the Holy Trinity states that there are three persons in ONE
GOD. When Jesus prayed to the Father it does not mean Jesus was speaking to
himself or prayed to himself as what Joe believed what it means. Christ as a separate
person prayed to the Father for he is also man. Christ who posses divine nature and
human nature also performs things that only God can do and things that man usually
do. Here are some of the attributes of the two natures of Christ:

As GOD in His Divine


Nature
He is eternally begotten, Gen
1:1-5, Jn 1:1.
He is worshiped, Mt 2:2,11,
14:33.
He was called God, Jn 20:28,
Heb 1:8.
He was called Son of God,
Mk 1:1.
He is prayed to, Act 7:59.

As Man in His Human


Nature
He was born into time, Lk 2:7.

He worshiped the Father, Jn


17:1-26.
He was called man Mk 15:39,
Jn 19:5.
He was called Son of Man, Jn
9:35-37.
He prayed to the Father, Mt
26:39.
He is sinless, 1Pet 2:22, Heb For our sake He made him to
4:15.
be sin, 2Cor 5:21.
He knows all things, Jn 21:17. He grew in wisdom, Lk 2:52.
He gives eternal life, Jn
He died, Rom 5:8.
10:28.
He is the fullness of deity, Col He has a flesh and bone body,
2:9.
Luke 24:39.

Image of God, not God?


According to Joe, Jesus is the image of God and the image or picture is not the very
nature of what it represents but this is not entirely true. According to St. Augustine, the
image of a thing may be found in something in two ways. In one way it is found in
something of the same specific nature; as the image of the king is found in his son. In
another way it is found in something of a different nature, as the king's image on the
coin. In the first sense the Son is the Image of the Father; in the second sense man is
called the image of God; and therefore in order to express the imperfect character of
the divine image in man, man is not simply called the image, but "to the image,"
whereby is expressed a certain movement of tendency to perfection. But it cannot be
said that the Son of God is "to the image," because He is the perfect Image of the
Father.
Hypostatic Union was invented by the Church Council, not from the Bible!
Surprise! Church Councils are biblical so does the hypostatic union. Though some
people are quite surprised that some Catholic Doctrines are formulated by several
councils, most INC members are not aware that such councils are biblical. Church
Council exercising their authority is well written in Acts 15. The scene in Acts 15 was
about some people who were teaching that ..Unless you are circumcised, according to
the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved. This brought Paul and Barnabas
into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along
with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about
this question.(Acts 15:1-2) This is to clarifying whether the Mosaic Law is still to be
followed by Christians. Though the apostles had so much debate and discussion,
decisions about the matter is still to be decided by the council by not a sole person who
hides in a dim lit room and after three days and three night, he came up with a doctrine
and believed to be the only correct interpretation of the Bible like what the leader and
founder of Iglesia ni Cristo, Felix Manalo did. Not only he defied the warning of St.
Peter (2 Pet 1:20) about private interpretation, he came up with doctrines with his own
interpretation of the Bible without any authority prior to what he interprets in the Bible
as his so called authority to preach for he is a messenger of God in these last days.
Church Councils are only exercising their authority as the successors of the
Apostles, to bind and loose Matt 18:18. And usually there are these people who
introduce certain teachings that bring up confusions among Christians just like what
happened in Acts 15 before a Church Council defines an official doctrine. Some people
may pronounce the teachings defined in the council as unbiblical for they only became
official after many years but it is what Christ have foreseen.
Doctrinal development is the on going teaching by the Holy Spirit to the only Church
which Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church. Holy Scripture makes this
abundantly clear:
"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit
of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own
authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things
that are to come."
John 16:12-13 (emphasis)
These are powerful verses. We must examine them closely. Did you notice the
futuristic tone in them? The word "will" indicates an emerging and ongoing process and
with not a hint of an ending, and how many times was it repeated in just those two
verses?

The first sentence implies that knowledge cannot come all at once, but slowly over
time, simply because the wonders of GOD cannot be digested all at once by our puny
human minds.
The last part is self explanatory when it says, "things that are to come", obviously more
future tense.
Here is more on the all important second sentence which clearly says that the Holy
Spirit will guide the Church into all the truth. That statement excludes tens of thousands
of churches simply because truth is one. Only one Church could possibly have all the
truth.
Thus, Holy Scripture, the Word of Jesus Christ Himself, has clearly laid the foundation
for greater understanding of revealed truth over time.

In summary, calling the Catholic Doctrines unbiblical is just caused by lack of study on
the Catholic Doctrine or total denial of proofs. There are a lot of INC member there who
feels they have acquired a tantamount of knowledge about Catholicism and the Bible
when the fact is they never have. No doubt that this was caused by attending a
doctrine class in INC. Doctrines of the Catholic Church have explanation with Biblical
proofs and this proof cannot be acquired by attending Bible study in INC or doctrine
class. Biblical evidence for Catholicism was well explained by numerous Catholic
Apologists and Saints whose work and writings are available online and they are more
reliable than Felix Manalo. Catholics should be confident in defending the Catholic
without fear for we always have answers to these detractors for hundreds of years.
Here are some few links where I have been studying the Catholic Faith:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Catholic Answer
The Catholic Treasure Chest by Bob Stanly
Summa Theologica by St. Augustine

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