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Synchronous Generator Voltage

AC generator voltage,excitation current, voltage drop and power flow
By Rudy on 12 February, 2013 - 11:50 am
Iamanonelectricalengineerandhavehardtimeunderstandingsomeelectricalaspectsofthegenerators.
Background:Steamdriventurbine,AC,threephasegenerator.
Excitationcurrentdeterminesthestrengthofthemagneticfieldofthecoil(alongwithspeedoftherotor).Got
it.Thismagneticfieldtheninducesvoltageatthegeneratorterminals.Ifthegeneratorisnotconnectedtothe
load(oranything),thereisnopowerflow,butvoltageisestablishedwiththismagneticfield.Thevoltagewill
bestrictlyafunctionofrotorspeedandexcitationcurrent(andvoltage).Gotit.
Connectedtotheload:Whenconnectedtotheload,thegeneratorvoltagedropswiththeincreasingload.
Voltageregulatorhoweverwillincrease(change)excitationcurrent/voltagetomaintainconstantgenerator
voltage.
Connectedtothegrid:Whenconnectedtothegrid,thevoltageissetbythesystem(grid),buttheexcitation
currentdeterminesVARScomingin/outofthegenerator.(Iamgettinglittlelosthere,butsofarsogood).
Myinformationfromoperatorsisasfollowsanditmaybewrong:
AutomaticVoltageRegulator(AVR)controlsthegeneratorvoltage.Gridtransformerlowersthevoltagefrom
thegrid.Gridtransformerhasalowtabchanger(terminology?)thatcanadjustthesteppeddownvoltagefrom
thegrid.BUSisbeingfedfromgridandgenerator.BUSfeedsusers.Whenlowtabchangerisdecreased,and
thussteppeddowngridvoltagedecreases,theAVRofthegeneratorwilladjusttheexcitationto'makeup'for
thedecreasedvoltage.TheresultwillbethattheBUSwillendupatthesamevoltageasbefore,butnowthe
generatoris'pushing'moretomaintainthisvoltage.Thisallhappenswhilethepower(MW)isthesame
comingfromthegridandfromthegeneratortotheusers.
Myquestion:
Mybasicelectricalunderstandingisthatpowerflowcanhappenonlyacrossavoltagedrop.(Fromhigher
voltagetolowervoltage).So,howisitpossiblethatthegeneratorincreasesitsvoltage(tomaintainBUS
voltage)whilethepowergoingoutofthegeneratortothesystemremainsthesame?Attheend,theBUS
voltageisthesame,thegeneratorvoltagehastobehigher,thusthedeltaVoltageisdifferent,yetthepower
flowisthesame.WhatamImissing,assumingwrong,orwhereistheconflictinginformationIhave?
Thanks.

By Bruce Durdle
on 12 February, 2013 - 2:35 pm
3 out of 3 members thought this post was helpful...
Thereisaphenomenoninelectricalsystemscalledreactance.ThisappliestoAConlysystems,andinvolves
elementsthatstoreenergyduringonehalfoftheACcycle,thenreleaseitagainduringtheotherhalf.In
elementscontainingreactance,thecurrentisnotdirectlyrelatedtotheappliedvoltageasitisinresistance,but
is90degreesoutofphasewiththevoltage.Inparticular,generatorsaredominatedbyinductivereactance
whichinvolvesenergystoredinamagneticfieldproportionaltothesquareofthecurrent.VARseffectively
representtheenergyneededtobuildupanddischargetheenergystoredinthemagneticfield.

Thevoltageacrossaninductivereactanceisproportionaltotherateofchangeofcurrent,andcurrentlags
voltageby90degrees.Thewindingofanalternatorisprimarilyinductive,withaverysmallresistivevolt
drop.Thepowertransmittedthroughaninductiveelementisproportionaltotheproductofthemagnitudesof
thevoltagesateitherendandthesineofthephaseanglebetweenthem,andinverselyproportionaltothe
reactanceofthewinding.
Sowecangetmorepoweroutofanalternatorbykeepingtheterminalorbusvoltageconstant,andtheinternal
orexcitationvoltageconstant,iftheanglebetweenthetwovoltagesincreases.Inpractice,ifyouwere
somehowabletowatchtherelativepositionoftherotorusingastroboscopesynchronisedtotheACbus
voltagepeak,youwouldseetherotorpositionmovefrominphasewiththepeakatnoloadtoabout60
degreesbehinditatratedpowerallwithoutanychangeinexcitation.
ThereisnoconvenientmechanicalanalogueIcanproposethatmighthelpyouseewhatishappeningthe
nearestIcansuggestisareciprocatingpistondrivewithspringsinsteadofasolidconnectingrod.

By Rudy on 13 February, 2013 - 2:11 pm

ThankyouBrucefortheanswer.
IthinkmymentalblockwasthatIwasthinkingaboutACcurrentlikeaDCcurrentoranenergyflowinfluid
networksasyoupointedout.
Now,ifIwasforcedtomakeamechanicalanalogue,Iwouldsaythatthebestcomparisoniswithametalbar
thatmoveshorizontallybackandforth.Themovementisdonebyaninfiniteforce(grid).Youcanclip
(connect)ausertothebarandtransformthebackandforthmovementofthebarintowhateverusableenergy
theuserneeds.Weattachedaload,andworkisbeingdone.Thebarmoves60timesasecond.
Wecanalsoattacha'generator'byconnectingtothebaradevicethathelpswiththepushingandpulling.The
amountofpushingandpullingisbasedonpowerflow(thustheprimemover).
Thisanalogueshowsthattheenergyflowisdependentonusersandsources(generators,grid)connectedtothe
bus.
Now,voltageandcurrent.IthinkVoltageislikeforce.Ifyoupushonthebar(voltage),butthebardoesnot
move(nocurrent),thennoworkisbeingdone.Theforceappliedonthebarhasamplitudeandiscyclical,just
likevoltage.Thecurrentisreallyspeedofthebar.Displacementpersecond,justlikeelectronspersecondin
AMPS.IfyoumultipletheforceFbydisplacementpersecond,yougetworkinWatts.Justlikewhenyou
multipleCurrentandVoltage.
Thedisplacementisalsocyclicalandhasamplitude.
Now,inanindealworld,youwouldwanttheforceofthegeneratortobeinthesyncwiththemovement.In
otherwords,youdon'twanttopushthebarwhenitisalreadyatitsmaximumdisplacement,oralreadygoing
backwhenyoushouldbepulling.Soevenifyouapplyforce,youmaynotdofulloranyworkifyoudoitout
ofsynch.Ifyoupullwhenyouaresupposedtobepushingandviceversa,youwouldbedoingnowork.Ifyou
don'tpush/pullenough,thebarisgoingtopush/pullyouandyouaremotorized.
Yougavemetheaboveideawiththepistonsuggestion,andmaybethisisexactlywhatyoumeant.
Now,attachingaspringtothebar,Icanseethatyounowhavesomeresidualleftoverforcesonthebar
outsideofitsnaturalbackandforthmovement.Measuringtheseforces(andwork)wouldgiveyoutheVARS.
IcanactuallyimaginethisandmaketheconnectiontotheACcurrent.
Canyoupleasecommentwhetherthisisclose,orIstilledmissedsomething.Iamsuretherealworldhas
manymorefactors,butistheaboveanalogueclose,oristheresomethingfundamentallywrongincomparison
withtheACcurrentgeneration.

By Bruce Durdle
on 13 February, 2013 - 8:31 pm
1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Nowyou'vegotmethinking...
You'reontherighttrackwithyourmentalmodel.Unfortunately,whiletherearealotofdirectmechanical
analoguesofelectricaleffects,theydotendtobreakdownifweexaminethemtooclosely.I'vetriedtocome
upwitharelativelystraightforwardsystemthatcanbedirectlytranslatedfromelectricaltomechanicalorvice
versa,butitsnoteasy!
Butifyouhaveyouryourreciprocatingbarasabus,withitstravelthoughtofas'voltage"thenwecancouple
areciprocatingcylindertoitthroughaspring.Atnoload,thebarandspringwillbeinstep,butifthereis
someloadappliedtothecylinder(usingitasapumpforexample)thespringhastostretchabittopullthe
cylinderout,andcompressabittopushitinandtherewillbeaphasedifferencebetweenthetwowiththe
cylinderlagging.However,ifthecylinderisusedtoaddpowertothesystem,itwillcompressthespringon
theextensionstrokeandextenditontheretractionpartofthecycle.
Nowifweweretodrivethe"cylinder"endbyadoohickeyhavingadjustablestroke,wecansupplyagiven
amountofpowerbyhavingalowcylinderstrokewithlargeangulardifference,oralargestrokewithasmaller
angulardifference.Byadjustingthestrokeatthedoohickeywecanregulatetheangledifferencewhichis
effectivelythepowerfactor.Thecontrollersettingthestrokeofthedoohickeyistheequivalentofavoltage
regulator.
(Thisisaboutwheretheanaloguesstarttobreakdownasthecurrentinanelectricalsystemisthesameatboth
endsofthereactance,whereasourforcesatthetwoendsofthelinkagewillbedifferent).
Ifthereisonlyonedrivecylinderactingonthebar,youhavethe"islanded"case.Withtwoorthree,thereisa
degreeofinteractionbetweenthemsimilartothatinasmallinstallationsuchasyouhavedescribedand
everyadditionaldriverreducestheeffectsofanyone.
Inalotofcases,inertiaistakenasananalogueofinductance,withcurrentequivalenttovelocityandvoltage
toforce.Butthisdoesn'ttranslatewelltoasystemwherevoltageisheldmoreorlessconstant.
Ijusthopethishasn'taddedtotheconfusionI'vebeentryingtocomeupwithasimpleexplanationofpower
factor/reactancetomechanicallyorientedguysforyears.NowIusuallyreplythatI'llexplainpowerfactor
afterthey'veexplainedentropy!

By CSA
on 12 February, 2013 - 7:05 pm
4 out of 5 members thought this post was helpful...
Rudy,
Goodquestions,andsomegoodstatements.
Wheretostart...?Iwanttoprefacethebelowbystatingmostofitistheoreticalanddoesn'ttakeintoaccounta
lotofrealworldfactors,butthatdoesn'tchangethefactsorwhathappensonACpowersystems("causeand
effect").
Iwouldliketocorrectoneterm:Transformerscanhavetapchangers,whichallowthetransformerratiotobe
variedbychanging"taps"toshortorunshorttransformerwindings.Thetapsare,inessence,justlarge
contacts.Ifthetapscanbechangedwhilecurrentisflowingthroughthetransformer,theyare"special"taps
andhaveaspecialsequenceandarecalled"loadtapchangers"meaningthetapscanbechangedunderload
(again,whencurrentisflowingthroughthetransformersbetweenthegeneratorandtheload(s)).

Tapchangersaretypicallyusedwhenlargevoltageswingsareanticipatedontransmission/distributionlinesor
whenlargereactivecurrentchanges/flowsareanticipatedontransmission/distributionlines.Mostexcitation
systemsarelimitedto+/5%ofratedgeneratorterminalvoltage,andiftheexpectedgridvoltageexcursions
and/orreactivecurrentflowsarelargerthanthisrangethenmanytimestapchangersareemployedtoassist
withmaintaininggridvoltagewithalimitedrangeofexcitationchange.
Ihaveevenbeentositesthatoperatetheexcitationsystemataconstantgeneratorfieldcurrent/voltageanduse
theloadtapchangerstodovirtuallyallvoltageandreactivecurrentchanges.Itseemedoddatthetime,butit
suitedtheirpurposes.Theymadetapchangeradjustmentsduringsynchronization,andonlymadesmall
incrementalexcitationchangesduringsynchronizationto"match"generatorterminalvoltagetothevoltageon
thelowsideofthestepuptransformer.(Thisisalwaysdone("voltagematching")topreventexcessiveVArs
whenthegeneratorbreakerisclosedduringsynchronization.)
YoualsomadeadistinctionthatIfoundalittleunusual.Youtalkedaboutthegeneratorbeingconnectedtoa
load,andthenaboutthegeneratorbeingconnectedtoagrid.Thegridcanbeconsideredtheloadfroma
generator'sperspective.Idon'tseetheneedforadistinction.Agridisthenetworkofgeneratingstations
(generatorsandtheirprimemover)andtheload(homes,offices,factories,watertreatmentplants,water
pumpingplants,etc.)andthewiresthatconnectthegeneratorsandtheirprimemoverstotheloads,or"the"
load.Allofthemotorsandlightsandcomputersandcomputermonitorsconnectedtoagridcanbeconsidered
asonelargeload.And,allthegenerators(andtheprimemoversdrivingthem)canbeconsideredasone
generator.
Ialsosensesomeconfusionaboutthefunctionofthetransformeronthegeneratoroutput.It'spurposeisto
stepupthegeneratorvoltagetoahighervoltagewhichtherebyreducesthecurrentflowinginthehighvoltage
linesforthesameamountofrealpower(watts)whichisoneofthemainreasonsACpowersystemsare
used:tominimizeI^2*Rheatinglossesinlongtransmissionlinesbyreducingthecurrentflowbyincreasing
thevoltage.Thevoltageisthenreducedatsubstationsandlocaltransformerstorequiredlevelsforconsumers,
whichincreasesthecurrent,butovermuchshorterdistancesallofwhichincreasestheoverallefficiencyof
theelectricgeneration,transmissionanddistributionsystem.
Changingtransformertaps(ineffectchangingthetransformerratio)issortofa"coarse"excitationchange,in
relativeterms(seebelow).Atthesametimethehighsidevoltageischanging,thelowsidevoltagechanges.
We'renotusuallytalkingaboutlargevoltagechanges,Ithinkontheorderoflessthan0.5kVpertap(onthe
lowside)inmostcases,butIhaven'tseenalotoftransformerswithtapchangers.
Now,Ihavejumpedalittleaheadofmyexplanationsbyassociatingreactivecurrentandexcitationbutthat's
howoneshouldrelatethetwoinverysimpleterms.Let'signore,forthemoment,thevariablestepup
transformerandpresumethetransformertapsareintherightpositiontoallowoptimaloperationofthe
excitationsystem(meaningtheexcitationsystemcanbeincreasedordecreasedbyalmost+/5%without
reachingupperorlowerlimits).
Ontotheheartofthestory.Let'ssaythegeneratorbreakerconnectingthegeneratortothestepuptransformer
isclosed.Further,let'ssaythattheamountofexcitationisexactlyequaltotheamountrequiredtomakethe
generatorterminalvoltageequaltothevoltageonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer.Finally,let'ssaythe
steamflowrateisexactlyequaltotheamountrequiredtokeeptheturbinegeneratorrotorspinningat
synchronousspeed(thatspeedwhichisproportionaltogridfrequency).
Inthiscasethepowermeterwillreadzerowatts(orKWorMW),andtheVArmeterwillreadzeroVArs(of
KVArsorMVArs).ThereisNOrealorreactivepowerflowinginthegeneratorwindings.
Now,lets'saytheexcitationremainsequaltotheamountrequiredtokeepthegeneratorterminalvoltageequal
tothevoltageonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer(whatthegenerator"sees"as"grid"voltage)butthe
steamflowrateisincreased.Thetendencyoftheincreasedsteamflowrateistotrytoincreasethespeedof
rotationoftheturbinegeneratorrotorbutthespeedis,forallintentsandpurposes,beingheldconstantbythe
ACgrid(we'retalkingaboutawellregulatedgridofsomesizewithmanyotherturbinesandgeneratorsall
synchronizedtogether).Theincreaseintorquecausedbytheincreaseinsteamflowratecan'tincreasethe

turbinegeneratorrotorspeedbutthegeneratorconvertsthat"excess"torqueintoamperes(watts,KWorMW)
flowinginthegeneratorstatorwindingsand"out"throughthestepuptransformer.(Andthattorque,converted
toamperes,flowsthroughmotorsat,sometimes,longdistancesawayfromthegenerator,andisconverted
backtotorqueinthemotor(s)andlightsandcomputersandcomputermonitors.Inreality,thesteamturbineis
doingtheworkofmanymotorsandlightsandcomputerandcomputermonitorsfromaremotelocation(where
theboilerandthesourceoffuelfortheboilerislocated)connectedtotheloadsbywiresandusingamperesas
thetorquetransmissionmedium.)
Conversely,ifthesteamflowrateweredecreasedfromtheexactamountrequiredjusttokeeptheturbine
generatorrotorspinningatsynchronousspeedthenampereswouldflow"into"thegeneratorstator
("motorizing"thegeneratorasit'scalled;or,reversepower)inordertokeeptheturbinegeneratorrotor
spinningatsynchronousspeed.(ThisisNOTgoodforsteamturbines,bytheway,tobespunbythegenerator
actingasamotor.)
Sotherealpoweroutput(watts,orKWorMW)ofanACgeneratorisafunctionofthesteamflowrateinto
thesteamturbine(inyourcase)drivingthegenerator.Anincreaseinsteamflowratewouldtrytoincreasethe
speedoftheturbinegeneratorrotor,butthespeedisfixedbythefrequencyofthegridtowhichitis
connected,sothegeneratorconvertstheextratorqueintoamperes.(Andmotorsconverttheamperesbackinto
torquetoproduceworkattheotherendofthewires.Electricityisjustawayoftransmittingtorquejustlikea
hydraulicsystemusesapumptocreatepressureandflowandacylinderorramorhydraulicmotorattheother
endofthepipeorhoseconvertsthatpressureandflowbackintotorqueandusefulwork.)
Now,let'stalkaboutexcitationanditseffectongeneratoroutput.Startingfromthesameconditionsasabove
(zerowattsandzerovarswiththegeneratorbreakerclosedmeaningthesteamflowrateisexactlywhat's
requiredtokeeptheturbinegeneratorrotorspinningatsynchronousspeed,andtheexcitationisexactlywhat's
requiredtokeepthegeneratorterminalvoltageequaltothevoltageonthelowsideofthestepupsideofthe
transformer),let'ssaytheexcitationwasincreased.Thetendencywouldbeforthegeneratorterminalvoltage
toincrease,butsincethegeneratorisconnectedtoagridwithmanyothergeneratorsthegeneratorterminal
voltagecan'tincreasebyverymuch(insomeplacesonagridandundersomeconditionsitmightincrease
morethanothers,anditmightnotseemtoincreaseatallinotherplacesonthesamegrid;theamountofthe
increaseisafunctionofmanyfactors).Sincethegeneratorterminalvoltagecan'tchangebyverymuch(in
mostcases!)thegeneratorconvertsthe"excess"excitationintoreactivecurrent"flowing"inthegenerator
statorLaggingreactivecurrentinthiscase.
So,justaswhenthesteamflowrateincreasedwhichwouldhavetendedtoincreasetheturbinegenerator
speedabovesynchronousspeedandthegeneratorconvertedthe"excess"torquetoamperes(watts,orKWor
MW),the"excess"excitationwhichwouldtendtoincreasethegeneratorterminalvoltageabove"grid"voltage
(thevoltageitisconnectedtoonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer)isconvertedbythegeneratorinto
reactivecurrentflowinginthegeneratorstatorwindings.TheVArmeterwouldincreaseintheLagging
direction(andthePowerFactormeterwoulddecreasefrom1.0,intheLaggingdirection.)
Iftheexcitationwerereducedfromthatrequiredtokeepthegeneratorterminalvoltageexactlyequalto"grid"
voltage,thenleadingreactivecurrentwouldstarttoflowinthegeneratorstatorwindings.TheVArmeter
wouldincreaseintheLeadingdirection(andthePowerFactormeterwoulddecreasefrom1.0,intheLeading
direction).
So,thegeneratorconvertstorquetoamperes(realpower)flowinginthegeneratorstatorbecausethespeed
can'tchangeappreciably.Andwhenexcitationisincreasedordecreasedthereactivepowerflowinginthe
generatorstatorvariesbecausethegeneratorterminalvoltagecan'tchangebyverymuch.
Now,let'ssaythesteamflowrateisstableandthemachineisproducing100MW.Andtheexcitationis
exactlyequaltotheamountrequiredtomakethegeneratorterminalvoltageequaltothevoltageonthelow
sideofthestepuptransformer,sothereactivepowerinthegeneratorstatorwindingsiszero.BUT,nowthe
stepuptransformertapsarechangedsuchthatthevoltageonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer
decreases.Thisis,effectively,thesameasincreasingtheexcitationbecausenowthegeneratorterminal
voltageissuddenly"higher"thanthevoltageonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer.Laggingreactive

currentwillbeginto"flow"inthegeneratorstatorwindingswhenthishappensiftheexcitationremains
unchanged.
Torqueequalsrealpower;excitationequalsreactivepower.
Now,let'sdosomeoftherealworldstuff.Whenthesteamflowrateofthesteamturbineincreases(or
decreases)theturbinegeneratorrotordoesactuallychangespeed,ifonlyforasplitsecond(acceleration,or
deacceleration,asthecasemaybe).Themagnitudeofthesteadystaterealworldchangeisdirectly
proportionaltothemagnitudeofthechangewithrespecttoalloftheothermachinesprovidingtorquetotheir
generators.IfthereareaLOTofothermachinesonthegrid,someverylarge,andtheamountofthechangeon
yourmachineisvery,verysmallinrelationthenthesteaydstatespeedchangewillbeimperceptible.Ifthe
gridissmalland/orthesteamflowrate(torque)changeislargethenthespeedchangemaybemorenoticeable.
Onawellregulatedgridofjustaboutanysizethespeedchange(frequencychange)causedbyonemachine
increasingordecreasingtheamountoftorquebeingappliedtothegeneratorrotorwillbevirtually
imperceptiblebecausethegridoperatorswillbemonitoringgridfrequencyandrespondingaccordingly.The
increasedtorqueisconvertedtowatts,orKW,orMW,whichisrealpowersincetheturbinegeneratorspeed
can'tbeappreciablychanged.
Thesameisbasicallytrueofgeneratorterminalvoltageversusgridvoltageandreactivepowerflow.Bucking
(tryingtoreducegridvoltagebyreducinggeneratorterminalvoltage)andboosting(tryingtoincreasegrid
voltagebyincreasinggeneratorterminalvoltagebyvaryingexcitationcauseschangesinreactivepower
flow.
Andwhethergeneratorexcitationischangedwithrespecttothevoltageonthelowsideofthestepup
transformer,orthevoltageonthelowsideofthestepuptransformerischangedwithrespecttothegenerator
terminalvoltage(assuminggeneratorexcitationisconstant),reactivepowerflowwillchange.
Iftheexcitationwereheldconstantasthesteamflowratewasincreasedthen,yes,thegeneratorterminal
voltagewoulddecrease.Thisoccursforseveralreasons,oneofwhichisthatexciterregulatorsgenerallyhave
a"droop"component(PLEASElet'sNOTgothere!),andtherearesomeinternalreactionsinsidethe
generator(emf'sandcounteremf'sandbackemf'sandallofthatstuff)thatalsocauseadecreaseinthe
generatorterminalvoltagewithrespecttothevoltageonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer.So,operators
generallyneedtoincreaseexcitationasrealpowerisincreasedtokeeptheVArflowconstantandtokeepthe
powerfactormeterclosetounityorasdesired.
Whentalkingtotheoperators,whohavearealhardtimeexplainingwhattheydo,otherthantosay,"That'sthe
waywe'vealwaysdoneit!",or,"It'sneverdonethatbefore!"andeven,asinyourcase,haveadifficulttime
communicatingthenamesofequipmenttheyareentrustedwithoperating,trytotempereverythingtheysay.
And,never,everasktoomanyquestions;that'sasurewaytogettheirireuphigherthanitusuallyiswhen
someoneiswatchingthem.Itisatruetestamenttoengineersandtheearlydesignersofelectricalsystemsthat
theyoperatewithouttoomuchhumaninterventionandthattoday'scontrolsystemsdon'trequireahighlevelof
knowledgeorexpertise.Mostoperatorscanonlydowhatthey'vebeentoldbyothers,ordowhatthey'vedone
inresponsetosituationstheyhaveencountered(usuallyseveraltimes).Theyarenotrequiredbytheir
supervisorstoreallyunderstandhowtheequipmenttheyoperateworkstheyjusthavetooperateit,and,again
it'sacredittotheearlydesignersandcontrolsystemengineersthatitworksaswellasitdoes.
So,ifIreadwhatyouwrotecorrectly,therewassomeoverlappingofconceptsthataren'tnecessarilyrelated,
andsomeincorrecttermsthatmighthavealsoleadtosomeconfusion.Myexplanationcomesfrommy
universitytraining(decadesago),andfromoperationalexperienceonsmallpowerislands(ships,specifically)
uptoandincludinglarge,infinitegrids.Ihaveverylittleexperiencewithpoorlyregulatedgridsandwith
uncontrollablegridfrequencyexcursions,andtransientconditionswhichbytheirnaturedon'toccurvery
oftenbutseemtogetheldupastypicalofallgridsbysomecontributorstosimilarthreads.
Yes,thereareallmannerofphysicalandelectricalprinciplesandvectorsandmathsinvolvedinACelectrical
powergeneration,mostofwhicharen'timportanttooperatorsandtostablegridoperation.Ichooseto
concentrateon"causeandeffect"todescribesynchronousgeneratoroperation,insteadofemfthisandemf

that.Myexplanationaboveisprettysimpleandtheoretical,whilestilltryingtodealwithsomerealworld
circumstancesandavoidingallofthemathsandvectorsandemf's(whichdoexist,butwhichjustserveto
confusethegeneralexplanationwhichIbelievedyouwereaskingfor).
Rememberthebasicelectricalpowerformula:P=V*I.Rememberalsothatthegeneratorvoltageisusually
prettystableandconstant,andmostexcitationsystemscan'tchangetheterminalvoltagebymoreorlessthan
approximately5%ofrated(whichisabout700voltsfora13.8KVgenerator).So,changingvoltagehaslittle
todowithchangingthepowerofagenerator;it'sMUCHmoreaboutthecurrentwhichisdirectly
proportionaltothetorquebeingappliedtothegeneratorrotorbytheprimemover(steamturbineinyourcase).
Reactivepower,whichonlyoccursinACelectricalsystems,isafunctionofthegeneratorterminalvoltage
whichisafunctionoftheexcitation(whichcontrolsthefieldstrength).Rememberalsothatthespeedofthe
generatorisbasicallyfixed(doesn'tchangebyverymuch,soasyoucorrectlynotedsincethespeedisconstant
thewaytochangevoltageistochangeexcitation.Andthataffectsthereactivecurrentflowinginthestator
windings.
Manypeoplewilltrytotalkaboutloadangle,whichisareflectionoftheamountof"twist"appliedtothe
generatorrotorbytheprimemover.Moretorqueequalsmoretwist,andmoretwistalsomeansmoreamperes.
It'sjustanotherwayofdescribinghowtorqueisrelatedtoamperes,orisconvertedtoamperes.Thereare
multiplewaystodescribewhathappens;tryingtokeepthemallstraightcanbeaproblem!
Hopethishelps!(Sorryforthelength;butIwastryingtoaddressalloftheissuesinyouroriginalpost.)I'm
sureotherswillalsobeabletoclarifysomeoftheconceptsifyouhavemorequestions.
Goodonyou,though,formakingtheefforttounderstand!Andfortryingtokeeptheoperators'explanationsin
perspective.

By CSA
on 13 February, 2013 - 2:11 pm
2 out of 3 members thought this post was helpful...
Icanfeeltheheatoftheflamesalready!
>Itisatruetestamenttoengineersandtheearlydesignersofelectricalsystemsthattheyoperate
>withouttoomuchhumaninterventionandthattoday'scontrolsystemsdon'trequireahighlevelof
knowledgeorexpertise.
Controlsystems(ofanyvintage)DOrequireahigherlevelofknowledgeandexpertise.WhatImeanttotype
was:
"...andthattoday'scontrolsystemdon'trequireahighlevelofknowledgeorexpertisetooperate....."
I'mnotslightingpowerplantoperators.Theirmanagementandsupervisionhasfosteredandallowedthis
situationtooccur.
And,it'sreallynodifferentthandrivinganautomobile.Whoamongusreallyknowexactlyhoweverysystem
onacarworks?Weonlycarethatitstartsreliablyandgetsusbackandforthbetweenourdestinations.And,
consideringhowlittle"driverintervention"automobilesrequiretoday,versusevenfiftyyearsago,it'sa
testamenttotheengineersanddesignersthatwehavesuchreliableandlonglastingconveyancestoday.
Thedifference,forme,isthatelectricityissovitaltoourlivestoday.There'ssomuchthat'sdonewith
electricitytoday,andmoreeveryday.Ourlivesdependonareliablesupplyofelectricitytothepointof
criticalitythesedays.

By madmax on 13 February, 2013 - 9:38 pm

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...

CSA,
Iamhappythatyoucanfeeltheheatoftheflames!AsacuriousandstudiousoperatorIthankyouforthein
depthexplanationandeasilyunderstoodconceptsofbasicpowergeneration.Iamlookingforwardtoreading
morepostsaboutthissubject.
Max.

By Rudy
CSA,

on 13 February, 2013 - 3:19 pm

Ican'tthankyouenoughforthetimeandeffortyoutooktoaddressmyquestion.Ispecificallylikethatyou
didnotgointodetailsthatwouldnotmatter(atthispoint)butdidnotomitanythatdomatter.Thanksfor
clarifyingterminologyandexplainingsimplestuffandcorrectingmyassumptions.
Ialsohopethatyouexpectedthatyouranswerwillmakemeaskmorequestions:).
PleasehavealookatthefollowuppostImadetoBruceabove.Letmeknowwhetheryouagreewiththe
mechanicalanalogueImadethere.
Howeveryourdetailexplanationabouttheexcitationmakesmeaskmorequestions.
ThesystemIaminvolvedinis4turbines(biggestoneis50MW)connectedto3BUSeswithheavyindustrial
machinesinapulpmill.ThethreeBUSes,eachhavingloadtapchanger,isconnectedtotheUSgrid.Theycan
runconnectedtothegrid,offthegridsupplyingpowertothelocalmachineswithmultiplegenerators,andoff
thegridwithonegenerator(runningpartofthemill).
IthinkIunderstandthedynamicsoftheRPMoftheabovethreescenarios.Wherethegridlocksthespeedof
allthemachinesto60Hz(throughmagneticfieldoftheACcurrent).Whenonegeneratorissupplyingpower
totheusers,thenthegovernorisresponsibletocompensatefortheloadswingsandmaintain3600RPM.
Whenmultiplegenerators(offthegrid)areconnectedthenallarespinningatthesamespeed,andifload
swings,theRPMchangeforallofthegenerators.IthinkIunderstandthisandwedonothavetogohere
unlessyoufeelIammissingsomething.
Ontoquestions:
>YoualsomadeadistinctionthatIfoundalittleunusual.Youtalkedaboutthegeneratorbeingconnectedtoa
load,
>andthenaboutthegeneratorbeingconnectedtoagrid.Thegridcanbeconsideredtheloadfroma
generator's
>perspective.Idon'tseetheneedforadistinction.Agridisthenetworkofgeneratingstations(generatorsand
>theirprimemover)andtheload(homes,offices,factories,watertreatmentplants,waterpumpingplants,
etc.)and
>thewiresthatconnectthegeneratorsandtheirprimemoverstotheloads,or"the"load.Allofthemotorsand
lights
>andcomputersandcomputermonitorsconnectedtoagridcanbeconsideredasonelargeload.And,allthe
generators
>(andtheprimemoversdrivingthem)canbeconsideredasonegenerator.
Understood,butformyunderstandingIneededtomakethedistinctiontounderstandthatthespeedofthe
turbineis'locked'whenconnectedtolargenumberofgenerators(grid).Inordertoincreasespeed,onewould
havetodosoforallofthegridconnectedgenerators,whichisimpossibleforourpurpose.Whereasifyou
areoffthegrid,youdohavecapabilitytoaffectspeedsofthelocalgenerators(withloadsconnected).Alsoit
seemsthattheexcitationaffectsVARSmoresointhefirstcaseandVoltageinthesecondtothatlater.

Inmechanicalworld,ifyouweretomeasurehowmuchdoesthespeed(RPM)changewithconstantload,by
changingtorqueoftheprimemover,Iwouldcallitelasticityofthesystem.Ifyouarenotconnectedtothe
grid,onlysupplyingpowertolocalloads,thenbyincreasingsteamflowtotheturbine,thespeedwillchange
instantly.InmywordsI'dsaythesystemiselastic.Ifmoregeneratorsareconnectedtothebus,butnotthe
grid,thenunderthesamesituation,increasingthesteamflowwillhavetochangethespeedofallofthe
generatorsatthesametime,eventhoughthesteamflowchangedonlyforoneturbine.Inthiscase,thesystem
wouldbealsoelasticbutlessso,becauseyouhavemoreshaftsandturbinestochangespeed.Ifyouare
connectedtoinfinitenumberofgenerators(grid)thenincreasingthesteamflowwillnotchangethespeed(or
maybeonlysolittlethatitisnotobservedforpracticalpurpose),andI'dsaythatthissystemhasverylittle
elasticity,orevennoelasticity.
So,yesIagreethatthethreesituationsabovearethesamefromthegeneratorpointofview,nodistinctionis
required,butthe'elasticity'changessignificantlywiththosesituationsandIwantedtodistinguishbetween
them.

IamomittingithereasIhavenofurtherquestion,butthanksforthereallifescenariosyouwentoverwith
increasing/decreasingsteamandwhatitdoestothesystem.Veryhelpful.

>Now,let'stalkaboutexcitationand....
>So,justaswhenthesteamflowrateincreasedwhichwouldhavetendedtoincreasetheturbinegenerator
speed
>abovesynchronousspeedandthegeneratorconvertedthe"excess"torquetoamperes(watts,orKWor
MW),the
>"excess"excitationwhichwouldtendtoincreasethegeneratorterminalvoltageabove"grid"voltage(the
voltageitis
>connectedtoonthelowsideofthestepuptransformer)isconvertedbythegeneratorintoreactivecurrent
flowing
>inthegeneratorstatorwindings.TheVArmeterwouldincreaseintheLaggingdirection(andthePower
Factormeter
>woulddecreasefrom1.0,intheLaggingdirection.)
ButthismakesmethinkthattheVARSoutofthegeneratorcouldbecontrolledbytheexcitation.Whynot
then,adjusttheexcitationtotheperfectVARS=0conditionandrunallgeneratorsatpowerfactorof1.0?IfI
cangofromLeadingtoLaggingconditionwiththeexcitationadjustments,Ihavetocross1.0powerfactor,so
whynotstopandholditthere?

Let'stalklittlebitmoreaboutVARS.Inourcase,thegeneratorsareconnectedtotheindividualBUSes,which
inturnareconnectedtoindividualloads.TheBUSesarealsoconnectedtoeachotherthroughthestepdown
transformerandthen(forthemostofthetime)connectedtothegrid.
Thelocalloadsarebig3phasecoilmotorsforthemostpart,soheavyinductiveloads(Ithink).Iunderstand
thatVARSaregeneratedhereandthusexistintheBUS.Reactivepower,asIunderstanditnow,istheresidual
currentflowcausedbycoilsastherealcurrentisfluctuating.Thecoilsgeneratemagneticfield,thatthenhasto
collapse,whichcausescurrentflowbacktothethesystem=reactivepower(Iamgettinglittlelosthere,butso
farsogood).Capacitorsdotheopposite,butwedon'tdealwiththistypeofreactivepower,soformypurpose,
Idon'tneedtoknowmuchaboutthem,otherthantheycanceltheinductivereactivepower(leadingvs.
lagging).
So,theVARShavebeengeneratedandtheyexistontheBUS.If,e.g.otherinterconnectedBUSesinthis
internalmillnetworkhaveonlyidealloadusers(powerfactor1.0),butaBUS#2hasloadswithpowerfactor

0.9,wouldyouseethereactivepowerintheentirenetworkoronlyinBUS#2?WouldBUS#1seereactive
power(VARS,powerfactor0.9)?
Second,howdoesthegeneratorhandlethis?AretheseVARSeffectingthegenerator?IftheVARSfromthe
useraree.g.powerfactor0.9leading,wouldyouwanttorunthegeneratoratpowerfactor0.9laggingto
compensate?
AreVARSeventuallyconsumedanddissipatedasheatinthesystemorsenttothegrid?
Iheardofasituationwherepowerflowsonewaythroughatransmissionlinebetweengeneratorandthebus,
buttheVARSflowintheoppositedirection.Howisthatpossible?
OperatoralsosaidthattheutilitycompanypenalizesusifwesendVARStothem.Ifwehoweverhavelow
powerfactorloadsinthemill(given),howdowe'consume'theseVARSsowedon'tsendthemtothegrid?I
guessexcitationcurrentofthegeneratorhassomethingtothiswiththis.Iheardofaddingcapacitancetothe
system,butthesearenotusedinourindustry(tomyknowledge),solet'snogothatroute.
IalsoheardthatVARSandthuspowerfactorcanbe'pushed'outofthegenerator,butitcannotbedestroyed.
Orinotherwords,thepowerfactorofthewholesystemstaysthesame,onecanonlychangethepowerfactor
ofalocalgenerator.AsifVARSloadshifting...NowIreallydonotknowwhatIamtalkingabout,justwriting
remnantsofwhatIremember.
Thanksagainforthehelp.Ireadbooks,buttheydon'thelp.Theyeitherassumereaderknowledgethatone
doesnothave,gointodetailsthatonecanbeeasilyconfusedbyonthe2ndpage,ordon'tcoverthetopicsin
depthneededforproperunderstanding.Booksalsodon'tcorrectmisunderstandingsandmentalblocks.

By Bruce Durdle
on 13 February, 2013 - 9:11 pm
2 out of 2 members thought this post was helpful...
>ButthismakesmethinkthattheVARSoutofthegeneratorcouldbecontrolledbytheexcitation.Whynot
then,adjust
>theexcitationtotheperfectVARS=0conditionandrunallgeneratorsatpowerfactorof1.0?IfIcango
from
>LeadingtoLaggingconditionwiththeexcitationadjustments,Ihavetocross1.0powerfactor,sowhynot
stopandholditthere?
>
>
Aninductionmotoractselectricallyasifithadtwobasiccomponents.First,themagneticfielditneedsisset
upbycurrentflowingthroughthestatorcoilsofthemotor.Becausethisisinductive,itdependsontheapplied
voltagebutlagsthevoltageby90degrees.Theamountofcurrentneededtosetupthemagneticfieldispretty
wellfixedanddependsonlyonthevoltageappliedtothemotor.Theenergyneededtosetupthemagnetic
fieldisreturnedtothesystemwhenthefieldcollapses(twicepercycle)andthiscurrentispurelyreactive,
laggingthevoltageby90degrees.Aslongasthevoltageremainsfixed,theVArsdrawnbythemotorwillbe
fixed.
Ifthemotorisloaded,ithastodevelopsometorquethiscomesfromtheinteractionbetweentherotorcurrent
andthemagneticfield.Therotorcurrentisconvertedthroughtransformeractionintoanadditionalcurrentin
thestatorcoilsbutthisoneisinphasewithvoltageasitrepresentsactualpowerconvertedfromelectricalto
mechanical,andeffectivelydissipatedbythemotor.Thetotalcurrentisthevectorsumofthereactivecurrent
neededtosetupthemagneticfieldandtheactivecurrentconvertedtowattsattheshaft.Atypicalinduction
motorhasaninherentpowerfactorwhichisusuallyaround0.85atratedload,fallingto0.2orlessifunloaded.
Now,whilethereactivecurrentdoesnotrequireanypowertogenerate,itdoesaddtotheenergylostinthe
resistancesofthesystem.Thisenergyhastobegeneratedandthatcosts.Ifthepoweriscomingfroman

externalsupplier,theymaywellhaveadditionalchargesbasedonpowerfactorfallingbelowaspecifiedlimit
(maybe0.85or0.9).
SoyourloadwillhaveaninbuiltVArrequirementbasedontheenergyflowingintoandoutofthemotor
windingstwicepercycle.Eventhoughthisaveragesoutat0overacompletecycle,itwillaffectthe
instantaneousbalance,andthemomentbymomentVArconsumptionoftheloadmustbematchedbyVArs
suppliedfromsources.Ifyourunyourgeneratorsatapowerfactorof1.0(ie,0VArbeinggenerated)thetotal
VArrequirementmustbeimportedandthiswillgreatlyreducethepowerfactorseenbyanincomingsupply.
Anothersecondarypointisrelatedtotheinternalbehaviourofthealternator.Whilethemainexcitationis
developedbycurrentflowinginthemainfieldwindingsontherotor,theloadcurrentflowinginthestator
windingsalsosetsupamagneticfield.Ifthemachineisgeneratingatalaggingpowerfactor,thisfieldisout
ofphaseoropposesthemainfieldandthemainfieldhastobestrengthenedinresponse.However,theresultis
avery"stiff"controlsystemandafairlylargechangeinstatorcurrentisneededtogiveachangeinpower
factor.Ifthepowerfactordevelopedbythealternatoris1.0orleading,thestatorfieldtendstosupportthe
mainfieldwhichisreducedinconsequenceasaresult,asmallchangeinstatororloadcurrentcanhavea
verylargeeffectontheoverallmachinebehaviour.Inextremecases,thevoltageregulatorbecomestotally
ineffectiveandfieldinstabilityresults.
Ithappens(verynicely!)thattheoptimumvalueforalternatorpowerfactorforgoodstabilityisabout0.85
aboutthesameasthatofthetypicalindustrialload.
Ausefultopicthatmighthelpwithallofthisrelatestothecapabilitydiagramorcircuitdiagramofan
alternator.Google"alternatorcapabilitycurve"thepaperbyCumminsPowerseemstogiveagood
explanation.
Aswell,thereisanotherwholetopicrelatedtocapacitorsandcapacitivereactanceacapacitoralsostores
energybutthecurrentleadsthevoltageby90degreesratherthanlagsasinaninductor,socapacitorscanalso
beusedtoadjusttheVArconsumptioninaninstallation.
Hopeyoudon'tregretaskingthequestion!

By CSA
on 13 February, 2013 - 11:24 pm
1 out of 2 members thought this post was helpful...
Rudy,
Youarewelcome,and,yes,Ianticipatedtherewouldbemorequestions.
IhaveyettofindareallygoodmechanicalanalogytoACelectricalsystems.IthinkBruceDurdle's
reciprocatingenginewithspringsforconnectingrodsisasgoodasI'veheard.Comingfromprimarilya
mechanicalbackgroundmyself,I'vetriedforyearstocomeupwithsomethingbutnothingreallyfitsthebill
entirely.So,Idon'twanttospendalotoftimeonthisbecauseIthinkitdetractsfromunderstandingAC
electricalsystemsbyspendingtimetryingtomakeanalogiesthat,todate,noonehassuccessfullymade.And
ACelectricalsystemshavebeenaroundforaLONGtime.Theyarewhattheyare,andtheyrequire
understandingwhattheyare,andwhattheyaren't,too.
Whenaplantlikeyoursisseparatedfromtheutilityandsupplyingitsownelectricalpower,that'stypically
referredtoas"island"operation.Youareoperatingasyourownpower"island".Inthatcase,whattypically
happensisoneofthegovernorsisputintowhat'scalledIsochronousSpeedControlanditautomatically
respondstochangesinfrequencyasmotorsandlightsandcomputersandcomputermonitorsarestartedand
stoppedbyadjustingthesteamflowrateVERYquicklytokeeptheturbinegeneratorspeedandfrequencyat
rated.TheothersteamturbinegovernorsshouldbeinDroopSpeedControl(andlet'sNOTgothereinthis
thread,please!).

Thismeansthatalltheotherturbinesandgeneratorssynchronizedwiththatonemachinewillallberunningat
thesamefrequency(that'sthedefinitionofsynchronism)andiftheIsochronousgovernordoesn'tmaintain
speed/frequencythenalltheotherturbinegeneratorswillalsorunatthesamespeed/frequencyasthe
Isochronousmachine.
IprefertothinkofVArsasbeingproducedandconsumed.FROMAGENERATOR'SPERSPECTIVE,
LaggingVArs"feed"alaggingVAr"load."IliketothinkofVArsassomethingthatarenecessaryfor
inductionmotorstoworkandsincethemajorityofloadsonmostgrids(smallpowerislandsorevenlarge
infinitegrids)areinductionmotorsthepowerfactorofmostgridsis"lagging"(againfromthegenerator's
perspective).So,the"consumption"ofVArsoccursinloadswithinductivecharacteristics(inductionmotors
beingthemostcommon).
TheeffectofVARsonanACelectricalsystemistoshiftthevoltageandcurrentsinewavesoutofphasewith
eachother.(Whentheloadispurelyresistive,thevoltageandcurrentsinewavesareinphasewitheach
other.)Therearecapacitiveloads,too,suchasflourescentlights,whichserveto"counter"inductiveloads;but
themajorityofloadsareinductiveinnature.
Allowedtocontinue"unchecked",ifthevoltageandcurrentsinewavesgettoofaroutofphasewitheach
otherthenbadthingsstarthappeningtothegrid,beginningwithbrownoutsandexcessiveheatingof
conductors(wires;busbars;etc.).So,somethingmust"produce"VArstocountertheeffectofVArsonthe
system,tosupplythe"consumers"ofVArs.Itdoesn'thavetobeaoneforoneproduction/consumption,butif
noVArswere"produced"thenbadthingswouldhappen,includingpooreffieciencyoftheentireelectrical
system.
Onewaythat"producing"VArscanbedoneisbyoverexcitingthefieldofasynchronousgenerator,as
describedinthepreviousresponse(increasingtheexcitationabovethatwhichisrequiredtomaintaingenerator
terminalvoltageexactlyequaltogridvoltage).TheVArloadofanyACelectricalsystemcan'tbe"controlled"
asmuchasitcanbe"responded"toor"dealt"with.Thenumberofinductiveloads(again,primarilyinduction
motors)andtheefficiencyofthoseloads(thepowerfactor,whichisameasureofefficiency)dictatesthe
"amount"oftheVArloadonthesystem.Allthatcanbedoneisto"produce"VArstocounterthe
"consumption"totrytokeepthevoltageandcurrentsinewavesinphasewitheachothertokeeptheAC
electricalsystemoperatingatoptimalefficiency.
IneedtosaythatinrealityneitherwattsnorVArsarereallyproducedorconsumed.Theyjust"flow",like
hydraulicfluidinahydraulicsystem,toacylinderorhydraulicmotorunderpressurefromahydraulicpump
andthenbacktothesumptorepeatthecycle.However,wattsaregenerallyconsideredtobeproducedand
consumed,andVArscanalsobethoughtofinthesameway.Forme,itsimplifiestheexplanations.(Negative
VArs,fromagenerator'sperspective,areLeadingVArs.PositiveVArs,fromagenerator'sperspective,are
LaggingVArs.BymostconventionsI'veeverseen.)And,further,Ineedtosaythatmyexplanationsarewhat
Iliketocall"causeandeffect"explanations,notsomuchtechnicallypreciseexplanations.Ileavethattothe
mathematiciansandtextbookauthors,whodon'tusuallyhavealotofrealworldexperienceandtendtothink
inphysicalandmathematicaltermsinsteadof"whenthishappens,thathappens."So,theremightberesponses
whichwilluseequations,calculus,vectorsand"ivorytower"explanationsallofwhichmaybetechnically
precise.Myobservationsandexplanationsaremyown,andiftheyaren'ttechnically100%precisetheyare
stillrealworldobservationsthatmanyhavefoundusefulovermanyyears.
I'malittleconfusedaboutthe"stepdown"transformerthing.Areyousayingallofthetransformersconnected
tothegeneratorsstepthevoltagedowntoalowervoltageontheBUSsideofthetransformer(lowerthanthe
generatorside)?Isthetransformerthatconnectstheplanttotheutilityalsoastepdowntransformer(meaning
thattheutilitysideofthetransformerisatalowervoltagethantheplantside)?Sorry;butI'mverypickyabout
myterms(it'sthecauseofmoreengineeringproblemsandmisunderstandingsthanjustaboutanythingelse;
twopeoplecanbe(havebeen!)talkingaboutthesamethingusingcompletelydifferenttermsandnevereven
knowittheEnglishlanguageissuchawonderfulthing,technically,anyway).
I'moutoftimefortonight;I'lltrytowritemorelaterafterIreadmoreofyourreplyandquestions.Idocaution
youtonotspendtoomuchtimetryingtofindamechanicalanalogytoACelectricalsystems.Justtrytogeta

graspoftheconcepts,andthenmullthemoverinyourmind.Theywillbecomemoreandmoreapparentand
obviousthemoreyoureviewthemjustlikemanyofthemechanicalconceptsyouhavelearned.
Iliketoquote,"Learningisfindingoutwhatyoualreadyknow.Doingisdemonstratingthatyouknowit.
Teachingisremindingothersthattheyknowitaswellasyoudo."(RichardBach,'Illusions')Rememberwhat
it'slikewhensomeoneexplainssomethingtoyousothatyoufinallyunderstandit?Alotofpeoplesayto
themselves,orevenoutloud,"Iknewthat!"Becausewealldoknowthisstuff;it'sjustthatittakessomething
alittledifferentforitto"click"foreveryone.
It'sveryenjoyableseeingpeoplediscoveringwhattheyalreadyknew.

By peterjh101 on 14 February, 2013 - 8:06 am

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Rudy,
I'lldomylittlebittotryandfillinthegaps,BruceandCSAhavedoneafantasticjobexplainingtheconcepts
sofar.
>ButthismakesmethinkthattheVARSoutofthegeneratorcouldbecontrolledbytheexcitation.Whynot
then,adjust
>theexcitationtotheperfectVARS=0conditionandrunallgeneratorsatpowerfactorof1.0?IfIcango
from
>LeadingtoLaggingconditionwiththeexcitationadjustments,Ihavetocross1.0powerfactor,sowhynot
stopandholditthere?
Yes,thegeneratorcancontroltheVArsandtheexcitationcanbesettomaintainapowerfactorof1.0,or
0kVAr.Letssaythereisalargeamountofinductiveloadonyousite(manyinductionmotors).Iftheloadand
generatorisconnectedtotheutilitysupply,theexcitationcanbeincreasedsothegeneratorstartsproducing
morekVAr,makingthepowerfactormorelaggingonthegeneratorandthemagneticcouplingbetweenthe
rotorandthestatorisstrengthened.Theeffectofthisonthemainssupplyisthatitnowstartssupplyingless
kVArwhichismovingthepowerfactorcloserto1.Thelimitationhereistheheatingeffectoftheexcitation
current.TypicallyageneratorratingstatesthekVAandthepowerfactor.ThemaximumkWoutputofthe
generatoriskVA*powerfactor.Ifthepowerfactorbecomesmorelaggingthanthemaximumpowerfactor
forinductiveload,thentheexcitationwindingswilloverheatandgetdamaged.
WhatneedstobeconsideredarethepenaltiesthatutilitieswouldchargewhenthekVArdemandreachesa
certainlevelfromthesiteload.Thiscanbemitigatedbyusingoneofthefollowing:
1.Intheabovescenario,ifthereisenoughcapacityinthegenerator,overexcitethegeneratorsothatitnow
suppliesthekVArdemandonthesite.
2.Powerfactorcorrectionloadssuchasabankofcapacitorscanbeused.
3.Changetheinductionmotorstosynchronousmotorswherethepowerfactorcanbecontrolledinasimilar
mannerasdescribedabove,howeverIimaginethatthiswouldbeanexpensiveoption.
Theriskofusingpowerfactorcorrectionequipmentinpoint2isthattoensurethesiteloadpowerfactordoes
notbecometooleadingforthegeneratorwhenthereisaloadshift(largebanksofmotorsswitchingoffisone
example).Whenthepowerfactorbecomesleading,thegeneratorabsorbskVArsandthemagneticcoupling
betweentherotorandthestatorisweakened.Whilegeneratorsaredesignedtoabsorbasmallamount,ifit
startsabsorbingtoomuchkVArs,theriskhereisthatandcouldgetweakenedtoapointthemagneticcoupling
isbrokenbrieflywhichcausesaverydangerousphenomenoncalledpoleslipping(cancauseseriousdamage
tothedrivetrainsuchasthecouplingand/ortheprimemover).
Iguessitisimportanttoknowwhatthelimitationsofthegeneratorpackagearetoensurethecorrectcontrols
measures(excitationcontrolorother)areusedtominimizethecostofthesiteload.

>Let'stalklittlebitmoreaboutVARS.Inourcase,thegeneratorsareconnectedtotheindividualBUSes,
which
>inturnareconnectedtoindividualloads.TheBUSesarealsoconnectedtoeachotherthroughthe
>stepdowntransformerandthen(forthemostofthetime)connectedtothegrid.
>
>Thelocalloadsarebig3phasecoilmotorsforthemostpart,soheavyinductiveloads(Ithink).Iunderstand
>thatVARSaregeneratedhereandthusexistintheBUS.Reactivepower,asIunderstanditnow,isthe
residual
>currentflowcausedbycoilsastherealcurrentisfluctuating.Thecoilsgeneratemagneticfield,thatthenhas
>tocollapse,whichcausescurrentflowbacktothethesystem=reactivepower(Iamgettinglittlelosthere,
butso
>farsogood).Capacitorsdotheopposite,butwedon'tdealwiththistypeofreactivepower,soformy
>purpose,Idon'tneedtoknowmuchaboutthem,otherthantheycanceltheinductivereactivepower(leading
vs.lagging).
>
>So,theVARShavebeengeneratedandtheyexistontheBUS.If,e.g.otherinterconnectedBUSesinthis
internal
>millnetworkhaveonlyidealloadusers(powerfactor1.0),butaBUS#2hasloadswithpowerfactor0.9,
wouldyou
>seethereactivepowerintheentirenetworkoronlyinBUS#2?WouldBUS#1seereactivepower(VARS,
powerfactor0.9)?
>
>Second,howdoesthegeneratorhandlethis?AretheseVARSeffectingthegenerator?IftheVARSfromthe
user
>aree.g.powerfactor0.9leading,wouldyouwanttorunthegeneratoratpowerfactor0.9laggingto
compensate?
Imaginethatyouhavemonitoringequipmentonfourdifferentpoints,thefirstbeingthelocalgeneratorsource,
thesecondandthirdbeingbus#1andbus#2,lastlywouldbetheutilitysource.Whenthegeneratorisoperating
connectedtothegrid,ifitissetto"baseload"thenyouwillsetwhatthekWandkVAroutputsonthe
generatorbesettingthefuelandexcitationsettingsaccordingly,letsassumeinthiscaseyousetthekVAr
outputforthegeneratorto1(orsupplying0kVAr).Anyshiftintheloadwillbetakenupbythemainssupply,
howevernotethatthereisalwaysasmalldelayinthecontrollerforeachgeneratorandasaloadchanges,ther
willbeaslight"bump"inthekWandkVAroutputsonthegeneratoritselfuntilitreachesitssteadystate.
Iassumethatbus#1andbus#2onlyhavetherespectiveloadsconnected.Thentheonlymonitorsthatwillsee
thesteadystatereactiveloadwouldbetheoneonbus#2andtheoneonthemainssupply.Usingthe
descriptionaboveoncontrollingthekVAroutputfromageneratorbybiasingtheexcitation,thegeneratorcan
takeonthereactiveloadfrombus#2causingareadingof0.9pf.
Ifyoutakethenextstep,thereareothermethodsofcontrolwheretheloadismonitoredattheutilitysideand
thegeneratorfuelandexcitationiscontrolledtoensuretheutilitykWandkVArlevelsaremaintainedandthe
generatortakestheswing.
>AreVARSeventuallyconsumedanddissipatedasheatinthesystemorsenttothegrid?
TheVArsareafunctionoftheloaditselfandwillalwaysbedissipatedasheatbytheload,the*source*for
theVArsdependsonthescenariodescribedabove.
>Iheardofasituationwherepowerflowsonewaythroughatransmissionlinebetweengeneratorandthebus,
but
>theVARSflowintheoppositedirection.Howisthatpossible?
Thisisagoodquestion,thebestwaytothinkofthisisthatforaninductiveload,thegeneratorneedstosupply
amagnetisingcurrentaswellastheloadrequiredforthework.AstheACvoltageiscycling,thecurrentis
alsodoingthesame.Theproblemhereisthatthemagneticloadpresentssomeinertiaandthereisaslight

delay(lag)inthecurrentcomparedtothevoltage.Theeffectthishasonthegeneratoristhatitneedstowork
hardertomaintainthevoltagesoitrequiresmoreexcitation.
Foracapacitiveload,wikipedia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor)providesanexcellentexamplein
theHydraulicanalogysectionasfollows:
______________________________________
"Inthehydraulicanalogy,chargecarriersflowingthroughawireareanalogoustowaterflowingthrougha
pipe.Acapacitorislikearubbermembranesealedinsideapipe.Watermoleculescannotpassthroughthe
membrane,butsomewatercanmovebystretchingthemembrane.Theanalogyclarifiesafewaspectsof
capacitors:
Thecurrentaltersthechargeonacapacitor,justastheflowofwaterchangesthepositionofthemembrane.
Morespecifically,theeffectofanelectriccurrentistoincreasethechargeofoneplateofthecapacitor,and
decreasethechargeoftheotherplatebyanequalamount.Thisisjustlikehow,whenwaterflowmovesthe
rubbermembrane,itincreasestheamountofwaterononesideofthemembrane,anddecreasestheamountof
waterontheotherside.
Themoreacapacitorischarged,thelargeritsvoltagedrop;i.e.,themoreit"pushesback"againstthe
chargingcurrent.Thisisanalogoustothefactthatthemoreamembraneisstretched,themoreitpushesback
onthewater.
Chargecanflow"through"acapacitoreventhoughnoindividualelectroncangetfromonesidetotheother.
Thisisanalogoustothefactthatwatercanflowthroughthepipeeventhoughnowatermoleculecanpass
throughtherubbermembrane.Ofcourse,theflowcannotcontinuethesamedirectionforever;thecapacitor
willexperiencedielectricbreakdown,andanalogouslythemembranewilleventuallybreak.
Thecapacitancedescribeshowmuchchargecanbestoredononeplateofacapacitorforagiven"push"
(voltagedrop).Averystretchy,flexiblemembranecorrespondstoahighercapacitancethanastiffmembrane.
Achargedupcapacitorisstoringpotentialenergy,analogouslytoastretchedmembrane."
______________________________________
Nowthe"push"describedintheaboveanalogyistheabsorptionofthekVArsbythegenerator.
Lastly,theeffectscausedbyreactiveloadisindependenttotherealloadrequiredforactualwork.
Oneexampleisaninductionmotordrivingapump,amagnetisationcurrentisrequiredforthemagnetic
coupling(kVAr)andthepumploadonthemotor(kW)drawscurrentfromthesourcetoensuretherequired
speedismaintained.
Theeffectofacapacitiveloadbankisbetterdescribedintheabovehydraulicanalogy.
>OperatoralsosaidthattheutilitycompanypenalizesusifwesendVARStothem.Ifwehoweverhavelow
power
>factorloadsinthemill(given),howdowe'consume'theseVARSsowedon'tsendthemtothegrid?Iguess
excitation
>currentofthegeneratorhassomethingtothiswiththis.Iheardofaddingcapacitancetothesystem,butthese
are
>notusedinourindustry(tomyknowledge),solet'snogothatroute.
>
>IalsoheardthatVARSandthuspowerfactorcanbe'pushed'outofthegenerator,butitcannotbedestroyed.
>Orinotherwords,thepowerfactorofthewholesystemstaysthesame,onecanonlychangethepower
factorofalocal
>generator.AsifVARSloadshifting...NowIreallydonotknowwhatIamtalkingabout,justwriting
remnantsofwhatIremember.
ItiseasiertounderstandifyouthinkintermsofkWandkVAr.Powerfactoriscalculatedoutusingthe
followingformula:

PowerFactor=kW/kVA
Usingtheoriginalformulaabove:
(kVA)^2=(kW)^2+(kVAr)^2
Ifyouaregivenacombinationof2oftheabovefiguresyoucandeterminetheremainder.
Justremember,theloadrequiresacertainamountofkWandkVArandwhateveronesourcedoesn'tsupply,
theotherwill.
SorryifIhavejustaddedtotheconfusion,butIhopethisexplanationhelpsyousomewhat...

By Semos on 7 October, 2014 - 11:54 am

i'mworkingonaprojectandamlookingtofindoutwhatmethodforpowergenerationwillgivemethebest
outcome,andwhatwouldbethebestwaytocontrolandmanipulatethepowercreatedsoIcanuseitasIneed
it.

By CSA
on 7 October, 2014 - 2:55 pm
0 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Hi,Semos,
Congratulationsonyourproject!(Soundslikeacourseassignmentdesignedtomakeoneinvestigateandthink
aboutelectricalpowergeneration....)
Electricalpowergenerationisallaboutproducingtorqueinonelocation,convertingthattorquetoamperes(at
somevoltage),transmittingthoseamperesusingwirestoanother,ormany,remotelocations,andthen
convertingthoseamperesbackintotorquetodoworkattheremotelocations.This"work"includeslightsand
computersandcomputermonitors,aswellaspumps(waterpumpingisthebiggestuserofelectricalpowerin
theworldallkindsofwater:freshwater,sewage,etc.).
So,youneedawaytoproducetorquecalledaprimemover.Thatmaybeareciprocatingengineusing
gasolineordieselfuelornaturalgas,orasteamturbine,oracombustionturbine,orahydroturbine,orawind
turbine.
Theprimemoveriscoupledtoasynchronousgenerator(usually,atleastforAC(AlternatingCurrent)power
whichisthemostcommontypeofpoweravailableintheworld)andsuppliesthetorquethatthegenerator
convertsintoamperes.
Wiresandcircuitbreakers(ofvarioustypes)andtransformersareusedtotransmitanddistributetheamperes
producedthegeneratortovariouslocations.Devicesatthelocationsthenconverttheamperesbackintotorque
(primarilyusingelectricmotorswhicharegenerators"inreverse"inthattheyconvertamperesbackinto
torque)todrivepumpsandfans,aswellasproducinglightand"virtualtorque"(computersandcomputer
monitors,etc.).
So,whendesigningapowergenerationsystemoneneedstoknowwhatsourcesareavailabletoproduce
torque:hydropower(water),steam(boilers),combustionturbines(liquidorgasfuels),wind,etc.And,then
oneneedstofindthepropersizedprimemoverandgenerator(calledageneratorset)andtheappropriate
devices(circuitbreakersandtransformers)toconnectitto"loads(electricmotors,lights,computersand
computermonitors)usingwiresandswitchesandsuch.

Yourquestionisverybroad,andassuch,it'sverydifficulttoprovidemuchmoreofananswer.Isuggestyou
useyourpreferredInternetsearchenginetolookup"electricalpowersystems"or"ACpowersystems"(using
thedoublequotesasshown)formoreinformationaboutvarioussystemsandhowtheywork.
The"method"ofpowergenerationdependsonwhat'savailablewhereyouaregoingtoproducetheelectrical
power.Youcan'tbuildahydroturbinegeneratorinthedesert,andyouwouldn'tbuildacombustionturbinein
arainforestunlessyouhadapipelinetosupplyfuel(liquidorgaseous)totheturbine.Andyouwouldn't
buildawindturbinegeneratorinsideabuilding.
Thenatureandamountofyour"loads"(motors,lights,computersandcomputermonitors)willalsoplaya
largefactorinthetypeandsizeofpowergenerationmethod.Youmaybesynchronizingto(connectingto)
othergeneratorsoryoumaynot.Allofthisaffectsthechoicesonemakes.
TherearealsoDC(DirectCurrent)powersystems,buttheyarelesscommonandusedforspecialapplications.
Andyoudidn'tspecify,soIpresumedAC.
Hopethishelps!

By serpenson
CSA,

on 1 November, 2015 - 11:16 am

"Theincreaseintorquecausedbytheincreaseinsteamflowratecan'tincreasetheturbinegeneratorrotor
speedbutthegeneratorconvertsthat"excess"torqueintoamperes(watts,KWorMW)flowinginthe
generatorstatorwindingsand"out"throughthestepuptransformer."
Whycan'ttheflowrateincreasetheturbinegeneratorrotorspeed?Iunderstandthatitmustbeatgrid
frequencybut,iftheflowrateincreasespeedmustbemorethan3000rpm.whatdoesstoptherotorat
3000rpm?
itreallyconfusesme.Hopemyquestionisclearenough.

By CSA
on 4 November, 2015 - 12:37 pm
0 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
serpenson,
TheformulawhichdescribesthefrequencyproducedbyasynchronousgeneratorwhenitisNOT
synchronizedtoagridis:
F = (P * N) / 120
where
F = Frequency (in Hertz)
P = Number of poles of synchronous generator rotor (always an even number)
N = Speed of rotation of generator rotor (in RPM)
Whensynchronizedwithothergeneratorsandtheirprimemoverstheformulathatdescribesthespeedofthe
generatorrotoris:
N = (F * 120) / P
where N = Speed of rotation of generator rotor (in RPM)
F = Frequency (in Hertz)
P = Number of poles of synchronous generator rotor (always an even number)

Whensynchronizedtoagridwithothersynchronousgeneratorsandtheirprimemoverstherearetwo(2)
magneticfieldswhichinteractwitheachother.Oneisthatoftherotatingsynchronousgeneratorrotorcreated
byDCthatisappliedtotherotorwindings(thisistypicallycalledthegenerator"field").Thisisaverystrong
magneticfieldwithNorthandSouthpoles.
TheothermagneticfieldiscreatedbytheflowofAC(alternatingcurrent)inthesynchronousgeneratorstator,
orarmature,windings.Becauseofthealternatingnatureofthecurrent,themagneticfieldcreatedinthestator
windingsappearstorotatearoundthestator.ThissynchronousgeneratorstatormagneticfieldalsohasNorth
andSouthpoleswhichattractandareattractedtotheSouthandNorthpoles,respectively,ofthe
synchronousgeneratorrotor.
Now,we'veallhandled(playedwith)twomagnets.WeknowthattheNorthpoleofonemagnetisvery
attractedtoandattractstheSouthpoleoftheothermagnet,pullingthemtogetherwithmagneticforces
relativetothestrengthofthemagnets,andrequiringsomephysicalforcetopullthemapart.Wealsoknowthat
whenwetrytoforcethetwoSouth(orNorth)polesofthemagnetstogethertheyDONOTwanttobe
anywhereneareachother.It'ssaidthatoppositepolesattracteachother,andsimilarpolesrepeleachother.
Insideasynchronousgeneratorthestrengthofmagneticfieldsisafunctionoftheampturnrelationshipofthe
currentsflowinginthewindingconductors(the"turns").Thenumberofturns(conductors)inthewindings
don'tchange(they'refixedbythedesignandconstructionofthegeneratorandrotor)butastheamperes
flowingineachsetofwindingsthegeneratorrotorandthegeneratorstatorthestrengthsofthetwomagnetic
fieldschange.AndtheyareVERYstrong;VERYstrong.
So,whathappensisthatwhenAC(alternatingcurrent)isflowinginthesynchronousgeneratorstatorwindings
(whenit'ssynchronizedtoagridandproducingpower(watts))thestrengthofthegeneratorstatormagnetic
field,asitappearstorotatearoundthestatorduetoitsalternatingnature,grabs(attracts)andholdsthe
oppositepoleofthegeneratorrotorandkeepsitlockedwiththerotatingmagneticfieldofthestator
windingsthespeedofwhichisproportionaltothefrequencyoftheACflowinginthegeneratorstator
windings(whichisthesameasthefrequencyofthegridtowhichitissynchronizedwith).
It'smagneticforcesthatkeepthegeneratorrotorlockedintoaspeedthat'sproportionaltothefrequencyofthe
alternatingcurrentflowinginthegeneratorstatorwhichisthesameasthegridfrequency.So,magneticforces
won'tallowthegeneratorrotortospinanyfasterorslowerthanthespeedproportionaltothegridfrequency.
Applyingmoretorquewhichwouldtendtomakethespeedincreasegetsconvertedtomoreamperes
(current)flowinginthegeneratorstatorwindings,whichmeansmorepower(watts)isbeingproducedbythe
generator.
It'sallaboutmagnetismandthetwoformulasatthetopofthisresponsethesecondofwhichisreallyjustthe
firstrearrangedtosolveforspeedinsteadoffrequency.There'sonlyoneformularelatingspeedandfrequency
(andthenumberofpoleswhichdoesn'tchangeduringsynchronousgeneratoroperation).
Whenasynchronousgeneratorisunsynchronized,thereisnoalternatingcurrentflowinginthegeneratorstator
windingssothereisnoresultantmagneticfieldassociatedwiththestatorwindings(justavoltagewaveform
producedbytherotormagneticfields"cutting"thestatorwindings).So,anincreaseintorqueWILLresultin
anincreaseinspeedwhenthegeneratorISNOTsynchronizedtoagrid.
(Tobeclear,thisdiscussionisaboutsynchronousgeneratorssynchronizedtoagridwithothersynchronous
generatorsandtheirprimemoversandoperatinginDroopspeedcontrolgovernormode.Asinglegenerator
supplyingaloadwhichislessthantheratingoftheprimemoverdrivingthegeneratorwillbeoperatingin
Isochronousspeedcontrolmodeandwillchangetheenergyflowrateintotheprimemovertochangethe
speedofthesynchronousgeneratorrotortocontrolandmaintainthespeedandfrequencyofthegenerator
output(andofthepowerbeingappliedtotheloadspoweredbythegeneratoranditsprimemover).
Mostpeopleunderstandthat(induction)ACelectricmotorsoperateatafairlyconstantspeedregardlessof
load(presumingtheyarenotpoweredbyavariablefrequencydrive,thatis).And,thesameformulaabove
appliestoACelectricmotors:F=(P*N)/120,orN=(120*F)/P.ChangingtheloadoftheaninductionAC

electricmotordoesnotappreciablychangethespeedofthemotor.So,throttlingthedischargevalveofa
centrifugalpumpbeingdrivenbyaninductionACelectricmotortochangetheflowratethroughthepump
whichchangesthetorquerequiredbythepumpbeingsuppliedbytheelectricmotorwhichchangestheload
onthepumpmotordoesnotappreciablychangethespeedofthepumpmotor(orthepump).Nobodyseemsto
haveaproblemwiththis.Astheflowratethroughthecentrifugalpumpvariessowillthetorquerequiredby
thepump,whichalsochangedthealternatingcurrentbeingdrawnbytheelectricmotordrivingthepumpand
currentandtorquearedirectlyrelated:anincreaseinamperes(current)resultsinanincreaseintorque,andan
increaseintorqueresultsinanincreaseinamperes(current)flowinginthemotorwindings.
AnACelectricgeneratorbeingdrivenbyaprimemoverdoestheopposite.Thegeneratorconvertstorqueto
amperesataconstantfrequency(onawellregulatedgrid);andwirestransmitthecurrent(torque)tomotors
(andotherloads)whichthenconverttheamperesbacktotorque(andother"useful"workthoughsurfingthe
WorldWideWebcannotgenerallybeconsideredusefulwork,andalotofwattsareconsumeddoingthat!).
Onecan'thavemotorswithoutgeneratorsandamperesflowingthroughwiresconnectthetwo.Theprime
moversdrivingthegeneratorsactuallydotheworkofthemotorsattheotherendofthewires.Theamperes
(current)flowinginthewiresjustconnectthegeneratorstothemotors(andotherloads)it'sjustatranmission
medium(method)forgettingtobedoneinmanyremotelocationsbyelectricmotors(andotherloads)tobe
donebyprimemoverslocatedindifferentplaces(wheretheabilitytoproducetorqueismoreeasilypossible).
Withoutelectricgeneration,transmissionanddistribution,andelectricmotors(andotherloads)we'dhaveto
havebazillionsoffossilfuelfired,orwater(hydro)driven"engines"topowerpumpsandfansandelevator
motorsandairconditionsandrefrigerators(bothofwhichuseelectricmotors)andlightsandsuch.Computers
probablywouldn'tevenbepossibleorthey'dbeVERYdifferentfromwhatweknowtoday.)
And,allofthisisdoneataconstantfrequency.Nosinglegeneratorsynchronizedtoagridwithother
generatorscanoperateatafrequencythatiseven0.1Hzdifferentthanthespeedproportionaltothegrid
frequencyforthatgenerator(thegenerator'ssynchronousspeed).Andmotorshavesynchronousspeeds,too.
Andit'sthesynchronousspeedthatkeepsmotorspeedsrelativelyconstant,andsynchronousspeedis
proportionalto(relatedto)frequency.
Andit'sallaboutmagnetismandmagneticfields.Havealooktherearemanyvideosandpresentations
availableontheWorldWideWebaboutsynchronousgeneratorsandthemagneticfieldsofthestators
(armatures)that"rotate"becauseofthealternatingnatureofthecurrentflowinginthestators(armatures).
And,thiscapturesandholds(locks)themagneticfieldsofthegeneratorrotorsintosynchronismwiththestator
magneticfield"rotation."
Hopethishelps!

By nic
on 12 February, 2013 - 9:40 pm
2 out of 2 members thought this post was helpful...
Brucehasagreatanswer,buttryandstartwiththisconcept:
Apparentpower(we'lllabelitS)hastwocomponents,anactivepartmeasuredinwatts,oftenabbreviateasP,
andareactive(somepeoplecallit'imaginary',butthatkindofcloudsthepicture)measuredinVoltAmp
Reactance,orVARs,oftenabbreviatedasQ.
So,S=P+jQ,wherej=sqrt(1)...don'tworryaboutjrightnow,itcomesintoplaybecausethevoltageand
currentaresinewaves.
Whenyouincreasevoltage,youareincreasingQ,notP...thatiswhyyoudon'tseeachangeiswattsflowing
outofthesystem.IfyouweremeasuringS,youwouldseeanincrease(SismeasuredinVoltAmps).
Ifthatmakessense,thenextstepistodiveintoBruce'scommentsifyou'relookingforamoredetailed
understanding.

cheers,
nic

By Rudy on 13 February, 2013 - 3:24 pm

Thanksnic.Combinationofallthepostshelpstoclarifythings,aseveryoneexplainsitfromadifferentangle.

By Tlhoni Dietsiso on 22 August, 2013 - 2:28 pm

Ididelectricalengineeringinhighschoolawhileagoandforsomereasonicannotremember,Howdoesone
calculatetherelationsbetweeninputvoltage,turnsratioandspeedineitherinductionorbrushmotors?This
wouldhelpmeoutalotwiththeprojectiamrunning..

By curiousone on 26 August, 2013 - 9:15 pm

ElectricalengineeringwasnotavailableasacourseinhighschoolwhenIattendeddecadesago.
But,thecommentattractedmyattentiontoaamazingthreadthatwillassistmeintakingcomplextopicsand
presentingthesetopicsinalessthancomplexway.
Thanks!

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