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Gifts of the 8th House: Transformation and Change (/published-articles-h/22-gifts-of-the-8th-house-transformation-and-change)
Interview with K.N. Rao: Conversations with one of the Eminent Vedic Astrologers of our Time (/published-articles-h/26-interview-withk-n-rao-conversations-with-one-of-the-eminent-vedic-astrologers-of-our-time)
Navigating By The Stars (/published-articles-h/101-navigating-by-the-stars)
K.N. Rao Interview: The Necessity for Research in Astrology (/published-articles-h/7-k-n-rao-interview-the-necessity-for-research-inastrology)
Important Clues From the Previous Dasha (/published-articles-h/23-important-clues-from-the-previous-dasha)
Astro-Profile: Dr. Masaru Emoto - The Hidden Messages of Water Signs (/published-articles-h/25-astro-profile-dr-masaru-emoto-thehidden-messages-of-water-signs)
The Double Transit Phenomenon of Jupiter and Saturn (/published-articles-h/433-the-double-transit-phenomenon-of-jupiter-andsaturn)
Saturn: Deliverance from Life's Lessons (/published-articles-h/102-saturn-deliverance-from-life-s-lessons)
The Five Foundations of Jyotish (/published-articles-h/100-the-five-foundations-of-jyotish)
The Significance Of The Mystical Number 108 (/published-articles-h/103-the-significance-of-the-mystical-number-108)
The Power of Synchronicities and Omens (/published-articles-h/429-vedic-astrology-article-the-power-of-synchronicities-and-omensby-vaughn-paul-manley-m-a)
Astro-Profile: Venus Williams's Big Comeback (/published-articles-h/24-astro-profile-venus-williams-s-big-comeback)
Tw eet
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Sri K.N. Rao, is widely considered to be one of the foremost Vedic astrologers in the world today. He is the founder of Bharatiya Vidya Bhavans
school of astrology in New Delhi, India, which is a two year course of study with over 1200 students and 27 teachers (as of Oct 2009). He is also the
founder of the bi-monthly magazine, Journal of Astrology, and author of more than twenty-five books. His academic and research-based approach
combines both classic and innovative methods like his PAC-DARES and Composite Approach, which are used by students worldwide. Over the past
forty years his record of accurate predictions has earned him wide spread recognition. His website is: www.JournalofAstrology.com.
forty years his record of accurate predictions has earned him wide spread recognition. His website is: www.JournalofAstrology.com.
Then, in 1982 Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan wrote to me a letter saying that they wanted me to start astrology classes. They had known from
some sources that I was teaching astrology to small groups in the office and at home. I met them and told them that if I start up an
institution that it would have to be with a team of teachers and not single handedly. That way it will last even after I die or retire. So I
waited for some time. In 1987, I was ready with a small team of teachers, but they were not very good. Anyway, each one could teach
something, but they were not thorough. Anyway, we started with only 30 students. Today, in 2009, we have 1200 students and 27
teachers. We have 80 research publications and a quarterly journal running for more than 12 years. So it has been a very substantial
achievement in that sense, and every prediction made by Moorkhanandji has come out correct.
Then, K. Padmanabhaiah, a scientist and a rich man who lost the case in Andhra Pradesh, decided to appeal to the Supreme Court. I
personally appealed to astrologers from all over India to file petitions as petitioners in person. They promised they would come and file
petitions. This number was 60-80 astrologers. But, when the case was finally admitted, I was the only one. There was no one else from
the country. When the case was being called on the merits, again I was the only one. There was not even another astrologer in the
audience at the court hearing the case, other than two of my teachers from Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. You can understand the level of
hypocrisy. These people talk about the great rishi tradition of India, but when it actually comes to showing solidarity to fight for astrology
not one man came.
K.N. Rao: What you must know is that in the year 1834, when the English rule began to introduce English education, they totally
destroyed the Sanskrit legacy and tradition in the process. That has not been resurrected till this day. There is no Sanskrit tradition, there
is no Sanskrit parampara, there is no astrology tradition, and there is no astrology parampara. The only small rudimentary parampara
that still exists is the karmakanda parampara where they do rituals for marriage and other events, etc. Nothing more. Everything the
Englishman systematically destroyed by introducing English education. That was the mischief, that was the intention. This can be best
understood by what Thomas Babington Macaulay stated in his speech of February 02, 1835, in the British Parliament. Please see this
quote:
"I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief, such wealth I
have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such high caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country,
unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and therefore, I propose that we replace her
old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their
own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation."
So what happened was that the educated class, the Brahmins, had taken to western English education quickly, they distinguished
themselves, but the Sanskrit tradition, which astrology was traditionally a part of, got destroyed totally. Brahmins who remained in the
countryside, and did not have the benefit of an English education, became neglected. They eked out a living out of the fragments of their
knowledge of karmakanda and some rudimentary astrology. In both of the National Commissions for Backwards Classes of India (Kaka
Kalelkars in 1955 and B. P. Mandals in 1978), astrologers have been classified as a backward class.
So those of us who are now doing astrology have inherited a fragmented tradition. In the year 1901 we had 10% male literacy and %
female literacy. Such was the miserable condition. There was never any question of any Jyotish tradition. People make all kinds of claims
about Jyotish paramparas, but dont believe them. It all got destroyed basically. Then, slowly it got revived. Dr. Ramans grandfather B.
Suryanarayan Rao and some others revived it in South India. In Andhra Pradesh, people brought out small booklets in Telegu, the local
language. In northern India it was revived in Varanasi, Lucknow, and Bombay. In Lahore they brought out books in Urdu. Slowly they
brought them out, but there was no tradition. It was all in fragments. Whatever book I got I read.
therefore we looked at her trimshamsha and made use of it. If the lagna or the Moon in the birth horoscope is in a benefic rasi of Jupiter,
Mercury, or Venus, and in the trimshamsha they go to Saturns rasi then the female is characterless as per old astrological theories. Ive
taken it up and proven that in the cases of a woman very highly placed in society that they often have the Moon or lagna in Saturns rasi
in the trimshamsha. So the whole concept is undergoing a change. The word we use is dasi, which means a servant. If the Moon or
lagna is in Saturns rasi she becomes a dasi, which means shes employed, thats all. Female employment was unknown in the Middle
Ages, except for the lower classes. But today, 35-45% of females are seeking employment. Many of the well-educated women are no
longer only housewives, they will go out and seek employment. So the trimshamsha and the vargas will have to be interpreted in a
different way.
Similarly, the books will say that the 11th lord in the 12th house means that the man will be fined by the government, and go to jail. I put it
like this: the 11th house is the house of profit and also elder siblings, and the 12th is foreign country. Therefore, siblings will go and settle
down in a foreign country or the person can do business with a foreign country from where he can earn money. This is a totally new
interpretation not given in any of the old books. Like that it goes on and goes on, it is endless!
The modern astrologer has to face manifold changes, and no single astrologer can answer all questions put to them. It is impossible.
Why? Generally, what are the questions put to an astrologer? I call it ECMCDIP. E is for education, C career, M marriage, C children, D
death, I illness, P property. These are the common questions put to astrologers in India and out of all these a variety of problems arise.
So it is endless. The research has to go on endlessly. It cannot stop. Buying a house in a housing society, applying for bank loans, this
was unknown in this country just 50 years ago. So how do you answer these questions? Where is it given in any classic book? You have
to take principles from these books and apply them in modern situations.
Modernizing Vedic Astrology
Vaughn Paul: So research in this sense is the process of modernizing ancient Vedic astrology.
K.N. Rao: Totally modernizing it. If you do not modernize then astrology has no utility for the person of the 21st century. The world has
undergone such a big change. The whole world is a global village now. What is happening in USA is affecting India, and vice versa.
Cultural crosscurrents have become very common. They come as a craze, as a fad, if they stay longer they become a trend, if they stay
longer then they become part of civilization. That is what is happening. There are many Indians leading an American style of life, there
are many Americans leading an Indian style of life. This is a result of global influence.
Now, getting back to 7 karakas. Surprisingly, all the famous commentators on Jaimini, like Neelakantha, Krishna Mishra etc., never
mentioned why these karakas are used and what their meaning is. And all these people also: B. Suryanarayan Rao, Dr. Raman, Iranganti
Rangacharya, P.S. Shastri never bothered to know why the karakas were used. I found out in the course of time that the karakas
represented the real soul of the Jaimini system. If you do not know how to make use of the karakas then Jaimini is useless for you. And if
you know how to make use of them then you can give fine predictions about career, marriage, children and so many things. I spent 20
years working on Jaiminis chara dasha and in the process I had to make some modifications. When I started predicting through Jaimini I
found that the chara dasha, as recommended by others, was giving the wrong timing. Then I corrected it and now the chara dasha that I
use gives the results of karakas exactly, and also gives the timely very closely.
On the other hand, if you take what they recommend in Darbhanga and Rajasthan and take the birth horoscope and put the karakamsha
there, then youll get extraordinarily correct results. The other is wrong. Second, a Jaimini sutra says that if Venus is in the karakamsha
then the man will be sexually virile and live up to 100 years. Now, Venus at 29 degrees and 58 minutes in Virgo will be in debilitation and it
will also be vargottama and it will also be the atmakaraka. If you put it in the navamsha and treat it as being placed in the karakamsha
then all those people with Venus in that condition will live to be 100 years. That again becomes a stupid interpretation. I found this all
going wrong. So I said nothing doing. Ill follow the Darbhanga and Rajasthan people who put the karakamsha in the birth horoscope and
interpret it, and I got extraordinarily correct results. I gave brilliant predictions on that basis, and many of my students have been doing
that for 22 years. So I dont bother with the sutra-chopping pandits. They will confuse you totally and they can produce no results.
For example, all of them have given a method of doing pre-natal horoscopy, which is creating a horoscope for the child before its birth
when the soul entered the womb of the mother. The method that has been given for the calculation never comes out accurately.
Sometimes it gives you 10 months, sometimes 9 months and 20 or 25 days, and sometimes only 7 months! How have they understood
how to interpret it? Similarly, they say that if the Sun is in the 12th house for Libra ascendant the man will live for 100 years. It is stupid.
How can you say that? Everyone born in the month of September or October (while Sun is in Virgo) with Libra ascendant cannot live for
100 years. So you have to understand that we are grateful to these people for giving these translations, but what theyve written does not
come out correct sometimes. You have to intelligently reinterpret the whole thing.
Another example is a combination given for death caused by a vulture. However, there are no vultures in the city of Delhi anymore. So
what does it mean when I see horoscopes with this combination? Death through vulture means that a wild man will get an order to shoot
you to death. I found this combination and worked on it and on this basis I predicted that Indira Gandhi would be assassinated - killed by a
vulture. I modernized it and made it a flexible interpretation and interpreted it that way. So this reinterpretation has to go on constantly.
These days we have been doing a very beautiful research. Were looking at the horoscope of the male or female who want to get married
and determining the profession of the spouse. In India, it is an immensely useful research because we are still a tradition bound
conservative society. The parents will come and show the horoscope of a girl and ask what type of husband she will get. What will be his
profession? That is a primary question that they ask. In ancient times profession meant a traditional occupation. You are a farmer, you
are an ironsmith, you are a warrior, or you are a priest. Thats all. Shudra, Vaishya, Kshatriya, Brahman. Today you are a computer
engineer, you are a fashion designer, you are cinema actor, you work in TV, you are a journalist, you are a salesman, etc. So this all has
to be reinterpreted.
Group Research Projects
Vaughn Paul: For the benefit of people who dont know about the research projects at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan could you tell us how
many charts you are using, etc.
K.N. Rao: Okay, see what happens is we have two types of astrology researches going on simultaneously. The first is researching
various divisional horoscopes and dashas that have been neglected for centuries. The second is researching a subject that is chosen
according to the socio-economic demand of the times we are living in. As I told you, if you read all those books, on the basis of one single
planet, they give all the results, which is stupid, totally stupid. You have to make use of the PACDARES approach and synthesize the
whole thing.
Now all types of new remedial measures come out. Why? The reason is because people want to make money. There is one fellow in Delhi
who makes yantras and sells them to Americans for $100-500 dollars and foolish Americans are buying them. They think they can take
this yantra and their fate will change. That is what is happening. So along with the astrology that has spread to America a lot of
superstitions have also become attached to it. And the Americans think by wearing stones or doing yantra puja their problems will be
solved. That never happens. Whatever is fated is bound to happen. But do some worship, because it can be mitigated to some extent
through sincere, honest worship.
Vaughn Paul: Which you recommend to be done by the person himself or herself?
K.N. Rao: He has to do it himself! You feel an appetite, so you have to eat food. It is your problem therefore it is your worship. It is not
anyone whom you hire doing the worship and changing your fate. Nothing happens like that. Not one single case. I have seen case after
case to prove this. But anyway this cheating is going on in the name of kala sarpa yoga, pitri dosha, etc. All this cheating has spread all
over the world now through fraudulent Indian astrologers. And in these days of web site astrology, the danger is much greater.
The PACDARES Method
Vaughn Paul: You mentioned just a moment ago about PACDARES. Can you talk about this approach that you developed?
K.N. Rao: Ill tell you. All the old astrologers that I used to see in my childhood made use of a brilliant approach. I saw my mother also
doing this. They never coined any expressions to explain it, but over the course of time I thought about it. When I was teaching, the
demand from students was to have a clear cut, systematic approach. They were reading books and getting confused. They would say
Saturn in the 7th house means destruction, Rahu in the 7th house means bad marriage. I would tell them this is all nonsense, dont go by
that. Instead take a total synthesis. How do you make a total synthesis? I said P is for a where a planet is placed or posited. A is for how
it is aspected. C is for conjunctions. Therefore it is called PAC. Out of these some yogas emerge. D is for dhana yoga, money. A is for
arishta yoga, arishta is mishaps, illness, etc. R is for raja yoga, getting high positions in life. E is for exchanges, like the lord of the 2nd
in the 4th, and lord of the 4th in the 2nd, etc. S is for special features, which every horoscope has. Now look at this and synthesize the
whole thing by doing PAC. Out of this emerges DARES. This framework you keep in your mind.
Now look at the dasha system and you see when a particular event is to take place according to these yogas. Hindu astrology is a dasha
and yoga approach. The moment you forget that the system is destroyed. You must know how to make use of the dashas, because the
dashas are the dynamic fructification of a promised event. The yogas show the promised event, while the dashas show when it is going to
be fulfilled. So unless you do PACDARES you cannot develop any astrological skill at all.
K.N. Rao: You see it is like this. People will do it according to their background. Some are very greedy and want to make money. They do
make money and for some years they prosper. Then after that, they and their family suffer very badly. I warn them to be careful. I say,
Today you are cheating someone, so your karma will boomerang, and you will also suffer. You will not escape your karma. So, if you
become professional at all, become an honest professional. Do it honestly, charge honestly, thats all. Stop there. Theres nothing wrong
in that. But the temptation to earn a lot of money and therefore charge the heavy fees and charge for remedial measures is not astrology.
It is cheating, downright cheating. But that is what is happening.
Yesterday one girl was here from London whom I had known since 1978. I had given her a prediction that she would marry and go
abroad. Shes now married and lives in London. She said Indian astrologers are appearing on TV channels in London now, and doing the
same thing that we are doing in India - cheating. So like an infection this cheating is spreading. So, those who do astrology as a spiritual
sadhana benefit immensely, tremendously, because their sadhana begins to have a strong spiritual base. Then they dont get easily
shaken up.
Vaughn Paul: So youre saying for the astrologers themselves to practice a spiritual sadhana?
K.N. Rao: Astrologers, if they do spiritual sadhana it is excellent for them! Traditional astrologers were doing it. And, at a later stage they
reduced their astrological activities to very little. For example, I see only about 7 horoscopes per week now. Earlier I was seeing 10
horoscopes per day and so I have a huge collection of horoscopes. I have reduced it, because one ought to devote more time to ones
japam, sadhana, and meditation. Some of the astrologers will do that as they grow old. Others will be greedy. But many of these greedy
astrologers dont live very long, they die prematurely, leaving a lot of suffering for their families.
Vaughn Paul: Are there any specific practices that you recommend astrologers to follow?
K.N. Rao: Well in modern hectic times you cannot follow the old system. When I was a child I used to see astrologers getting up early in
the morning and doing their worship. Then one or two hours after sunrise they would sit down to do astrology while people came to them.
This was from about 7 oclock until 10 or 11 oclock. Then, they would take their lunch and again come at 2 oclock and do it up to 4 or 5
oclock, until sunset. They would not be doing it before sunrise, and they would not be doing it after sunset. Now these days, I do most of
astrology only after sunset. This is because during my service career I was busy in the office in the daytime, so I could do it only after
sunset. That choice had to be made. So, if you can follow that old discipline that is excellent. Sit down do your worship then do your
astrology. Your moral excellence increases, and your concentration is very good then. Your predictive success is also much greater. If
you do astrology after worship your predictions qualitatively improve. Then as far as possible, if a needy man comes, do astrology free for
him even if you are a professional charging heavily. That ideal should be there. But in the mercenary culture of our times that ideal has
vanished.
Misconceptions and the Value of Statistics
Vaughn Paul: What is left for you to accomplish in your work?
K.N. Rao: My mission is over, there is nothing left. There is an excellent teaching institute that has come up, the teachers are there, the
tradition of research is going on, book writing is continuing. The journal is already getting handed over to a group now, and Im not
looking after the journal anymore. They will be able to publish the books that they write whether I am there or not. We have won that
classic case at the Supreme Court in favor of astrology. So all that Im continuing to do is consolidate this tradition of students writing and
doing research. That is the last thing that Im doing. We have now three other teachers, other than myself, conducting research, Manoj
Pathak, Naval Singh, and Deepak Bisaria. They have their own classes. We have reached a fantastic number of 230 students in research
classes alone now.
Vaughn Paul: With all the research that is available through your publications and the journal, students now have the big advantage of
being able to see statistics that disprove many of these common misconceptions.
K.N. Rao: Why this statistical research is necessary is because no one in modern times will be convinced that astrology is a science
unless they see the technique replicated. They are not going to be impressed by your quoting Sanskrit shlokas or talking about the great
tradition of parampara. Hes a downright practical man, and he says, "Show me the technique, show me the methodology, show me the
results." That scientific culture has come to stay now. Students at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan come and say, Please show us how it works.
house, and is the 12th lord and 7th lord. In October 2009, during Saturn-Saturn-Mars, he is in a foreign country, in the UAE (United Arab
Emirates) and he lost his job. In Saturn-Saturn-Rahu, starting from November 8th, 2009, he will get a good job by moving out of UAE to a
new place. Rahu is in the 11th house. How well it works you see. A recession in America, is affecting an Indian working in the UAE. His
horoscope shows this effect. That is the astrology we do. Like this we collect hundreds of horoscopes and show results. When he will get
employment next can also be seen here.
Vaughn Paul: And then if we had time youd go into chara dasha, etc.
K.N. Rao: I can go into all that, but just at a glance here it is clear. He wrote to me a desperate letter. The moment I opened it I said yes,
this is going to happen. Here read this:
Vaughn Paul: Ive had sudden misfortune. On Oct. 6th, I was fired from my current job, and Im actively looking for a job now
K.N. Rao: Okay, he was fired from his job. On 6th October 2009, Saturn-Saturn-Mars was running and he lost his job. Saturn is in the
12th house, Mars is the 12th lord, and he is in a foreign country. So it is so precise, astrology is so scientific. The moment I saw that
letter, I opened the horoscope and said it is clear, crystal clear. This is our Hindu astrology. If you dont use the dasha system, astrology
will be ruined.
Vaughn Paul: Ive also seen myself just in the days that Ive spent at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan on this trip, that its very exciting to see
students talking with one another, theyll be pointing out a chart and theyll say, Oh its this, its this and this. They may ask one another,
What about this? Its a very dynamic learning environment and theyre all using this composite approach and PACDARES method and
getting excellent results.
K.N. Rao: This has now crystallized into a tradition at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan and the institution will keep on prospering. We teach you a
method, but it is for you to develop your predictive skill through that method. We cannot give you predictive skill.
There was a great musicologist in the country by the name of Bhatkhande. He had a five-year musical course in Lucknow, a beautiful
course. At the end of the five years he used to say, In these five years what we have taught you is 'nayaki,' that is a method, not 'gayaki,'
not the skill of singing. This you have to develop yourself. Similarly, what we are doing at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan is teaching you
'nayaki', a method. 'Gayaki' you develop yourself by working more and more. And students now are developing very fast. This is because
these days student who come here have the great advantage of reading these books and researches. They buy all the books and read
them. By the time they complete the second year course they develop good skill.
Vaughn Paul: And if they have questions there are so many teachers and other competent students to get the answers very readily.
K.N. Rao: So its at a very high level, a very high level now. The teachers themselves will have to keep on upgrading their skill. After
some time the teacher will find it difficult to meet the challenges of the students. It is becoming so difficult now.
K.N. Rao: You know, any organization, anywhere in the world, can only develop if the cause of an organization is kept above selfinterests. All the organizations get shattered and vanish into limbo when self-interest predominates and the real cause is forgotten. At
Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan we face similar problems.
We started in 1987, but in 1989, when we started reaching the number of 200 students, people became greedy. One person wanted to
impose his books and his ayanamsha. You can understand whom. I said, No, we use only Lahiri ayanamsha. There was an initial quarrel
about this. Someone in Delhi who was bringing out a monthly journal told me, You prescribe it for the students. I said, No, students are
at liberty to buy whichever astrological journal that they want. But in 1997, when Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan decided to start its own journal,
the Journal of Astrology, it was made part of the curriculum because it was our home journal. Students contribute articles, and we develop
new writers. We dont ask writers outside to contribute because we have produced enough writers. Getting back to what I was saying,
some of our teachers became greedy. They started all types of gimmicks and trapping students. There were one or two scandals. We
had to get rid of them.
K.N. Rao: Yes, they can read the books we are publishing in English. That is one.
First, students must become technically proficient. This will happen if you master the rudiments properly. Then, be careful about the
Jyotish software you are using. Now some of the software gives you eight karakas and ruins your Jaimini. Some of them will give chara
dasha totally wrong. These things you must learn and calculate manually. Then dont go by many of the superficial claims of parampara,
etc. See practically whether what is being said is working or not. Take the time to go through that. After doing that keep on collecting
horoscopes.
K.N. Rao: You see, when a subject becomes very popular, it loses the sheen, the brilliance of an academic study. It becomes a part of
pop culture and gets defiled, vulgarized. Its like classical music versus pop music. You see the difference? Similarly, there is no
comparison between classical, brilliant, academic astrology versus pop astrology, which you see on TV and in newspapers. Pop astrology
is totally vulgar. It has no meaning. So the danger of academic astrology becoming associated with pop astrology is always there. To
prevent this danger it is necessary to come out, at some stage, with strong legislation all over the world. Otherwise, this will become a
terribly corrupting influence, and academic astrology will suffer as a result. Ordinary people will think that this vulgar astrology is equated
with real astrology, which it is not.
Vaughn Paul: So, nowadays, anyone can develop a web site and make any claims.
K.N. Rao: Yes. A lot of stupid and wrong claims have been made. So-called paramparas have been promoted. Jaimini has been
distorted. Stupid theories have been floated. Kala sarpa yoga has been bloated beyond proportion and made into a big money earner. All
these type of things have happened. So that is the danger of pop astrology spreading in America, in Russia, and everywhere. Now you
see stones are being prescribed as a remedy measure. It is nonsense. it is not given in any classical book of astrology. So this pop
astrology has to be controlled.
Regulating Malpractice
Vaughn Paul: What do you envision as the best-case scenario of how the study and practice of Vedic astrology can develop from this
point forward?
K.N. Rao: You see once there is a global linkage of serious astrological centers, where good research is being done, they can
collectively persuade their respective governments to come out with proper legislation to regulate and control malpractices.
The beautiful thing that happened in the USA in the 19th century was that the moral practices of doctors was controlled and regulated
when the American Medical Association was formed. Medical treatment can be expensive, but medical malpractices are very, very
controlled due to strong organization and legislation. So the same thing should happen with astrology. International astrological centers
should link up and persuade governments to come out with proper legislation. There should be a good organization. So that is bound to
happen, but it will take some time to get the proper regulation. After 30-60 years astrology will get recognized all over the world as the
science of sciences, as the science of counseling primarily, and prediction secondarily.
In India, prediction is primary and counseling is secondary. In America, counseling is primary, and prediction is secondary. The Wests
concept is, Man makes his own destiny. In the East, we believe in preordained destiny. So the approach to astrology will be basically
different in the East and the West. In India, if you say life is predestined, people will easily accept it. In America or England, if you say the
same thing they will not accept it. In India and the USA, during the days of British Imperialism it used to be said, Character is destiny. A
man can affect his destiny according to his character. In India we dont say, Character is destiny. We say, "There is a destiny that youre
born with." Part of destiny is totally unalterable, part of destiny is alterable, and part of destiny is half alterable and half unalterable.
Therefore, we use three terms: dridha karma, adridha karma, and dridha-adridha karma. This means that which is unchangeable, that
which is changeable, and that which is half changeable. So our approach is that we believe in destiny. Therefore, here in India prediction
will be primary, and counseling will be secondary. In the West, it will be the opposite.
Regaining Dignity in Jyotish
Vaughn Paul: In America, I feel like Im constantly faced with prejudices against astrology being an undignified study.
K.N. Rao: Yes, they think it is undignified. But once you begin to establish and show the replication, then the same study will become
highly dignified. That is what ACVA (the American College of Vedic Astrology) should have done. That should have been their aim. In any
case, if you produce an internationally replicable research in one, two, or three areas, then you can attack the scientific establishment.
You can tell them, You have closed your mind. You have not studied this. Come on disprove it!
In India, I had to fight this alone. As soon as scientists came to the court of law to fight astrology I destroyed all their arguments in 22
minutes. They could not argue with me. So you can plan it for the next 6-10 years and youll see that astrology will get the dignity, rest
assured. If you do your work honestly, it will become highly dignified. Now in Delhi people are learning astrology and respecting astrology.
Why are these students coming to our classes from other subjects? It is because they respect it. They want to learn it. You must create
the same condition in the USA.
Vaughn Paul: They dont even oppose astronomy, a subject so closely linked to astrology. I think the reason is what you said earlier, that
if the church didnt oppose astrology, then more people would go to astrologers than to the ministers for advice.
K.N. Rao: Yes. In the Middle Ages in Europe, there was terrible opposition to astrology. Its a very bad history with a lot of prejudice.
When I was in the USA I gave a lecture to scientists in Boston. They came quietly, and other people came. The program was not
publicized, but it spread word of mouth. One American lady put up her chart on the board. I said, Look here, you have studied
philosophy, then your studies were interrupted, and then you resumed your studies and youre in an educational career. She said, Yes.
Everything is correct. I continued, And these days you should be planning to go abroad. She said, Yes, Im going to Germany. I said,
That is our astrology. You can see that unless you apply the dasha system, you cannot know. That is our progression, not Western
astrologys progression based on transits.
Then many of them enlisted to study Vedic astrology. They said, We want to study. You can see so clearly about us from the horoscope.
It is worth studying. Well study it. So scientists can study this astrology. There is no difficulty, except maybe there is difficulty with
Christians. However, if the USA accepts it, Europe will accept it. USA leads and the rest of the world follows. The 10% of the population in
India who are opposed will keep quiet. 90% in India are not opposed.
The Universal Subject of Astrology
Vaughn Paul: Is that because it is associated with the Hindu religion?
K.N. Rao: Absolutely! In the Supreme Court, when I was arguing the case for astrology, I said, The Mahabharata, Ramayana, or show
me a single Purana where astrology is not mentioned? How can you dissociate astrology from the Hindu religion? You cannot.
Vaughn Paul: So to deny astrology would be to deny your sacred tradition.
K.N. Rao: Yes. It is not so in Christianity. It is not so in Islam. But it is so in the Hindu religion. We have the birth horoscope of Rama. We
have the birth horoscope of Krishna. From where they got it, I do not know. But we have it from historical records. Astrology is an integral
part of the Hindu religion. Nowhere else in the world is it an integral part.
Vaughn Paul: Does that make it a requirement, for someone who is studying Hindu astrology, to be receptive towards Hinduism?
K.N. Rao: No. Do you mean they have to convert to Hinduism? No. This study is an apara subject. Apara means a non-spiritual subject.
In the Mundaka Upanishad, educational subjects are divided into two parts: para and apara. Para is what takes you towards God,
spirituality. Apara is simply sociology, medicine, anything. So astrology is also an apara subject.
Vaughn Paul: So, in fact, Vedic astrology or Hindu astrology is really just astrology.To put a name before it is to limit it to a particular
culture.
K.N. Rao: Yes. I argued in the Supreme Court that a Hindu Brahmin goes and studies allopathy. Allopathy has come from the USA. Does
he become a Christian after studying it? I went to America, I went to Russia and taught them astrology. Did I convert them into Hindus?
They studied the subject and went away. They retained their faith. I have my faith. There are so many Christians who came to my classes
in America. There are so many Russian Orthodox Church members in my classes in Russia. So what happened? There is no question of
conversion here. It is just a wrong political argument. Some Indians gave me that argument. I said, This is nonsense. It does not belong
to any religion, it is a universal subject which anyone can study anywhere.
Vaughn Paul: Thank you very much K.N. Raoji for so generously sharing your wisdom and insights in this interview. It has been
incredibly informative and Im sure it will be very useful for students of this great study of Jyotish. Namaste.
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