Comment on Foaad Haghighi's post

David Smith
Kind of reminded me of Baha'is requiring permission from the
UHJ to travel to Israel.
Hide Yesterday at 16:35

Terence McBride
not the same thing...
1Hide Yesterday at 16:44

David Smith
"women can't even travel without a male guardian's
permission" ====>>> "BAHA'IS can't even travel without a "9"
male guardian's permission"
Hide Yesterday at 17:46

Foaad Haghighi
David Smith ,
You can go for short tours to Israel. The main 9-day
pilgrimage needs preparation. Organization is a civilized thing.
Why are you convoluting the issues? It is the office of the
pilgrimage who needs to arrange for the guests otherwise you
would have the same thing that happens in the Islamic
pilgrimage where a few people die every year due to people
stampede.
Hide Yesterday at 17:51

David Smith
Foaad Haghighi Not true. Any visit to Israel for whatever
reason needs the permission of the UHJ.
Hide Yesterday at 17:58

Terence McBride

but it is BINDING on both Bah' MEN and WOMEN ...not just

women only... furthermore Pilgrimage is open to all Bah's
with full administrative rights....
big difference...
Hide Yesterday at 18:00

Foaad Haghighi
David Smith ,
It is not the UHJ decision. It is the office of pilgrimage. That is
why if you live in the US, if you request it today it might take
seven years. They have certain obligations towards the city
and the country. If they allow everybody to go there all at once
what kind of havoc can we expect coming out of that.
It is traffic control. Otherwise have you heard if anyone not
being allowed?
Edited Hide Yesterday at 18:03

David Smith
Foaad Haghighi Millions of people travel to Israel every year
without incidence. It is the Business of the state of Israel to
decide who travels to Israel and who doesn't. It's not the
UHJ's business. Unfortunately Under Baha'i law, regardless of
the decision of the state of Israels, Baha'is must first obtain
permission from the UHJ.
Hide Yesterday at 18:06

Foaad Haghighi
David,
BECAUSE THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BAHA'I
COMMUNITY TRAFFIC.
Hide Yesterday at 18:11

Foaad Haghighi
David Smith,
Why don't you write to the UHJ if you are so interested to go to
Israel and ask why?
Hide Yesterday at 18:12

Hide Yesterday at 18:12

David Smith
Terence McBride Visiting the Shrines in Israel is not BINDING
on Baha'is. The original Baha'i pilgrimage that is binding on
Baha'is consists of visiting the house of the Bab in Iran and
Baha'u'llah's house in Iraq, both were razed to the ground...
Hide Yesterday at 18:12

Terence McBride
with the present state of affairs in those places I doubt any
Baha'i from the USA will be visiting those sites any time soon..
Hide Yesterday at 18:14

David Smith
Terence McBride The point was that Baha'is are not required
to go to Israel.
Hide Yesterday at 18:15

Terence McBride
I guess I'm new at this... I'll have to ask my Persian friends for
any verification of this rule ...
Hide Yesterday at 18:17

David Smith
Foaad Haghighi 'becasue so and so' doesn't change the facts
on the ground. Baha'is are required to obtain the permission
of a 9 male committee for travel. I'm not judging what
happens in Saudi Arabia, but you shouldn't bash them when
there are similar laws in the Baha'i faith. In fact the UHJ even
decides how long you can stay in Israel:
"There are a number of reasons that Bahs other than
pilgrims may wish to come to the Holy Land, such as a brief
visit to the Holy Shrines, to spend time with Israeli relatives, a
business trip, or consultation at an Israeli university.
WHATEVER THE PURPOSE OF THEIR TRAVEL TO ISRAEL,
BAHS MUST HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE UNIVERSAL

HOUSE OF JUSTICE FOR THEIR VISIT. In each case, the

period for which the House of Justice grants permission for
the person to come to Israel is determined in accordance with
the nature of the visit."
https://bahai.bwc.org/pilgrimage/ApplForm/briefvisits_inde
x.asp
Visit Request Form
There are a number of reasons that Bahs other than pil
bahai.bwc.org
Hide Yesterday at 18:19

Foaad Haghighi
David Smith
And what is your problem asking permission?
Edited Hide Yesterday at 18:27

David Smith
Foaad Haghighi If there is no problem then don't protest to
similar laws in other communities.
Hide Yesterday at 18:43

Foaad Haghighi
David Smith
That's none of your biz.
1Hide 10 hours ago

Farhan Yazdani
As if we could imagine Baha'is free to settle down in the Holy
land as they please. And how can we compare this to a
mother asking permission from her son for travel?
1Hide 9 hours ago

David Smith
Farhan Yazdani Who said anything about settling in the holy
land?! If a baha'i wants to visit a relative in Israel, attend a
University conference, or go there as a tourist they need to

ask permission from the UHJ. This is on the same level of

sickness as a backward Saudi law requiring the permission of
your son for travel.
Hide 9 hours ago

Foaad Haghighi
David Smith
This is the way it is. If you understand and believe in the
station of the UHJ, you accept it. Otherwise, get a ticket...
Hide 9 hours ago

Farhan Yazdani
I disagree, David Smith because by free choice, as a Baha'i, I
hold the opinion of the Universal House of Justice in very high
esteem, but those who freely choose not to be considered as
Baha'is, are not at all bound by this rule and are of course
entitled to travel as they please. However, a Saudi mother
does not have this choice. Perhaps you see this difference?
Choice vs no choice?
Hide 9 hours ago

David Smith
Farhan Yazdani Dear Farhan, the UHJ has no right to restrict
where and when one travels. The fact that you have DECIDED
to self-persecute yourself by submitting to these rules, does
not make these rules moral or correct. Taking ones life is bad
whether it be murder or suicide. Just because the one who
commits suicide has a CHOICE (and the murdered person had
no CHOICE) does not justify taking ones life. In the same
manner, you cant justify the UHJ's actions by stating you had
a CHOICE and those in Saudi Arabia didnt. The rule itself is a
senseless restriction of freedom, regardless of having a
CHOICE or NOT.
Hide 8 hours ago