The Inner Game: Coaching and Adult Education

THE INNER GAME: BUSINESS COACHING AND ADULT EDUCATION IN A
DISTANCE-LEARNING ENVIRONMENT
by
LeRoy Henry
A Dissertation Presented in Partial Fulfillment

of the Requirements for the Degree
Doctor of Education in Organizational Leadership
UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX
October 2009
2009 by LeRoy, R., Henry

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
ABSTRACT
Even with the rise in the popularity of coaching in the corporate world, the field lacks
measurable outcomes, standards of practice, and competency measures. This qualitative
phenomenological research study, using a modification of the van Kaam design, may
illuminate the coaching phenomenon in a distance-learning environment. Using a
population of 20 volunteers from a west coast coaching firm, the study described how
coaches interact with clients in a distance-learning environment to assist clients in
achieving peak performance. Recommendations for further study focus on analysis of
coaching processes using a variety of quantitative tools to assess coaching and adult
learning.
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DEDICATION
I would like to dedicate this work to all the coaches that have helped me out along
the way. My first coach was Ted Connor, the fabulous guitar player from Daytona Beach,
Florida. Not only did he show the basics about playing the guitar, he used to give me
rides home from my guitar lessons in his VW van. Probably the biggest influence on my
life has been Dr. Lee Eubank whose nick name when I studied bass and music theory
with him at the University of Central was "coach". I thank Lee for agreeing to be on my
committee and the suits, the string bass, and the washing machine he gave me when I was
a struggling young man. He continues to laugh at my jokes on our frequent coaching
calls. I would also like to acknowledge Bertram Turetzky for the help he gave me with
the string bass and the personal advise he offered a couple of years ago. Lastly I would
like to mention my current coach, Wolf Marshall. Together we are exploring the entire
history of jazz guitar. The principles that these coaches have embraced confirm what I
have learned as I addressed this exercise.
v
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the fact that the faculty recruiter for
the University of Phoenix held onto my resume for 2 years and called me just about the
day I was eligible to try out as a facilitator at the University. If he had not done that I
never would have been hired as a facilitator there or tried to pursue this degree. Michael
Grommo truly changed my life with his attention to detail and ability to follow up.With
regard to this project in particular, I would like to acknowledge the help of my editor,
June Juett. June helped me when I first hired on as a facilitator at the University of
Phoenix. My expertise was in the area of computers but many of the classes I was
facilitating required that grade written papers for grammatical content. There is a
humorous anecdote about the work we did together here. At one point I had sent an email
to my committee letting them know I had hired an editor that was an APA expert. I
copied June on the email. She immediately shot off an irate email to me letting me know
that she did not think this was a very kind way of letting me she had been fired.
Apparently I had underestimated June's humility and I appreciate the fact that she did
stick with me through this whole thing. I would like to thank Wilma McGinnis for
transcribing the interviews contained in this work and Dr. Janice Fipp for being on my
committee. Dr. Barbara von Diether made a considerable contribution to my efforts here.
I would also like to acknowledge Louise Underdahl for taking on this project and
encouraging me to continue. Finally I would like to recognize the support of my family
throughout this experience. I appreciate the fact that Dr. Ralph Reisfeld and Ms. Deborah
Reisfeld have supported me through all the disappointments and helped me celebrate my
triumphs. Deborah remains the love of my life.
vi
vii
TABLE OF CONTENTS
LIST OF FIGURES ............................................................................................ xii
CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION ......................................................................... 1
Background of the Problem .................................................................................. 1
Statement of the Problem ...................................................................................... 4
Purpose of the Study ............................................................................................. 5
Significance of the Study ...................................................................................... 7
Significance of the Study to the Field of Leadership ............................................ 7
Nature of the Study ............................................................................................... 8
Research Questions ............................................................................................. 11
Theoretical Framework ....................................................................................... 11
Mentoring .................................................................................................... 13
Motivation.................................................................................................... 14
Definition of Terms............................................................................................. 16
Assumptions........................................................................................................ 18
Limitations .......................................................................................................... 19
Summary ............................................................................................................. 19
CHAPTER 2: LITERATURE REVIEW ............................................................ 21
Documentation .................................................................................................... 21
Literature Review................................................................................................ 22
Historical Overview ..................................................................................... 22
Current Findings .......................................................................................... 27
Adult Education Literature .......................................................................... 41
viii
Distance-learning ......................................................................................... 45
Conclusion .......................................................................................................... 50
Summary ............................................................................................................. 50
CHAPTER 3: METHODOLOGY ...................................................................... 52
Research Method ................................................................................................ 52
Appropriateness of Design.................................................................................. 54
Research Questions ............................................................................................. 56
Setting and Population ........................................................................................ 57
Informed Consent................................................................................................ 57
Sampling Frame .................................................................................................. 58
Confidentiality .................................................................................................... 58
Data Analysis ...................................................................................................... 63
Summary ............................................................................................................. 66
CHAPTER 4: RESULTS .................................................................................... 67
Data Collection ................................................................................................... 68
Problem Statement Review ................................................................................. 68
Research Findings ............................................................................................... 69
Theme 1: ...................................................................................................... 70
Theme 2: ...................................................................................................... 74
Theme 3: ...................................................................................................... 80
Theme 4: ...................................................................................................... 83
Theme 5: ...................................................................................................... 88
Theme 6: ...................................................................................................... 92
ix
Theme 7: ...................................................................................................... 96
Theme 8: ...................................................................................................... 98
Theme 9: .................................................................................................... 101
Theme 10 ................................................................................................... 105
Individual Structural Descriptions .................................................................... 109
Structural Description for Participant #1: .................................................. 109
Structural Description for Participant #10: ................................................ 116
x
Structural Composite Descriptions ................................................................... 125
CHAPTER 5: CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS .................... 130
Research Question ............................................................................................ 130
Implications....................................................................................................... 132
Limitations ........................................................................................................ 137
Recommendations ............................................................................................. 138
Summary ........................................................................................................... 141
REFERENCES ................................................................................................. 142
APPENDIX A: APPROVAL FOR USE OF HUMAN SUBJECTS ................ 156
APPENDIX B: APPROVAL FOR USE OF PREMISES ................................ 159
APPENDIX C: INTRODUCTORY LETTER.................................................. 161
APPENDIX D: INFORMED CONSENT FORM ............................................ 163
APPENDIX E. INTERVIEW PROTOCOL ..................................................... 165
APPENDIX F. DEMOGRAPHIC SURVEY INSTRUMENT ........................ 174
APPENDIX G. INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS ............................................... 177
PARTICIPANT #1 .................................................................................... 178
PARTICIPANT #2 .................................................................................... 190
PARTICIPANT #3 .................................................................................... 203
PARTICIPANT #4 .................................................................................... 218
PARTICIPANT #5 .................................................................................... 244
PARTICIPANT #6 .................................................................................... 252
PARTICIPANT #7 .................................................................................... 264
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PARTICIPANT #8 .................................................................................... 291
PARTICIPANT #9 .................................................................................... 304
PARTICIPANT #10 .................................................................................. 324
PARTICIPANT #11 .................................................................................. 337
PARTICIPANT #12 .................................................................................. 353
PARTICIPANT #13 .................................................................................. 372
PARTICIPANT #14 .................................................................................. 385
PARTICIPANT #15 .................................................................................. 406
PARTICIPANT #16 .................................................................................. 428
PARTICIPANT #17 .................................................................................. 452
PARTICIPANT #18 .................................................................................. 473
PARTICIPANT #19 .................................................................................. 488
PARTICIPANT #20 .................................................................................. 499
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LIST OF FIGURES AND TABLES
Figure 1. Distance-learning Model. .................................................................... 46
Thematic Category 1 ........................................................................................... 71
Thematic Category 9 ......................................................................................... 102
Thematic Category 10 ....................................................................................... 106
1
CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION
Traditionally, the use of the term coaching developed from the multiple skills
involved in controlling the team of a horse-drawn stagecoach (Brockbank, 2006).
Contemporary use of the terms coaching, mentoring, teaching, and training has evolved
to connote the skills required to transfer knowledge from one person to another
(Hargrove, 2003. p. 8). In 1999, Hudson outlined the role of a coach as helping a client
see options for becoming a more effective human being (p. xix). The central role of a
coach, mentor, or teacher is to provide the experiences that facilitate this process. This
qualitative phenomenological study was designed to identify the specific activities of a
sample of 20 coaches that promote the effective practice of coaching.
Chapter 1 introduces the research topic, reveals why the research problem is an
important social concern, and summarizes the need and purpose for the study. Sections
identify the population to be studied and define terms that are specific to understanding
the content of the study. Further sections identify the general and the specific problems
studied. Information regarding the significance of the study follows. The chapter
concludes with sections on the procedures used to collect data, details of the theoretical
framework for the study and disclosures regarding the assumptions and limitations
inherent in the study. A summary concludes the chapter.
Background of the Problem
In the corporate environment, the coaching of executives has become a commonly
used method for improving the performance of business leaders (Hargrove, 2003).
Marshall (2006) stated that, even with the rise in the popularity of coaching in the
corporate world, the field lacked measureable outcomes, standards of practice, and
2
competency measures. Kilburg (1996) noted the absence of a scientific basis for theories
of executive coaching and their methods.
The literature to support improved performance as a direct result of coaching is
limited. Executive coaches tend to publish their own studies about the effectiveness of
executive coaching. These studies are usually anecdotal and based on personal
observations that have no basis in scholarly research (Turner, 2006).
Since the early 1990s, the performance improvement industry has grown
exponentially and evolved into a new industry called executive coaching (Kilburg, 1996).
The preponderance of the literature describes coaching related to sports. As Kilburg
found, few authors focus on executive coaching. Despite the development and use of
theories and methods for executive coaching, the scientific basis for these applications is
extremely limited (p. 136) and there is a significant, ongoing problem of a lack of
empirical research on the actual work of senior practitioners in the field (p. 135).
Marshall (2006) asserted that the majority of articles available in the literature were
practice articles, veiled as research, since many articles were more self-promotional than
based on research. Executive coaches described the focus of their coaching as leadership
development, change management, and team building. Although there has been one study
on coaching as applied to teacher practice improvement, Coggins (2005) found little
research existed about the application of executive coaching techniques to teaching in
general. This phenomenological study adds to empirical research by identifying specific
teaching and mentoring practices in executive coaching.
In a survey of 210 coaching clients about the value and use of coaching, the
International Coaching Federation (1998) found that 70% of the respondents regarded
3
their coaching as very valuable, and another 28.5% described their coaching as valuable.
Of these 210 survey participants, 197 were employed professionals. Most of these
coaching clients had ongoing relationships with their executive coaches for less than nine
months. Clients valued their coaches as sounding boards and motivators. Only 41% of
survey participants thought of the executive coach as a teacher (Watson, 1998). None of
these studies directly specified the executive coaching of managers, but they suggested
that such coaching improved the performance of administrators. Kilburg (1996) found
that the research indicated a significant, continuing problem: There was a lack of
empirically based research about the actual activities of senior practitioners.
Coaching and mentoring are both student-focused learning techniques wherein
students take ownership of the goals they set. Coaching and mentoring, as a part of
executive education, incorporate accountability; thus, knowledge of coaching techniques
not presently being applied may benefit executive coaching firms. There is little literature
about business coaching with regard to educational theory. The National Health Service
(NHS) of the United Kingdom conducted an extensive review of business coaching and
found that there was limited empirical evidence available (National Health Service
Leadership Centre, 2005). The NHS found that the practical examples and tool kits
provided in the literature tend to be based on the authors experience of delivering
coaching programs, as well as their (sic) personal and professional experience of
coaching relationships (p. 19), rather than on scientific inquiry. According to Stone
(2007), coaching was a mentoring activity during which an experienced professional
listened and responded to concerns expressed by a less experienced professional (p. 15).
4
Statement of the Problem
Marshall (2006) discovered that despite coachings rapid rise in popularity, the
empirical research on coaching is just now beginning to emerge as the field continues to
grapple with the issues of competencies, standards of practice, and outcome measures
(p. 26). Although there has been some development and use of theories and methods for
executive coaching, the scientific basis for these applications is extremely limited
(Kilburg, 1996, p.136). Goode undertook a qualitative study at Columbia University
which integrated adult learning concepts and coaching and recommended further study in
the subject of distance coaching (2007, p.171).
The general problem is that coaches in a distance-learning environment have
varied backgrounds and there are few standards for coaching practice. Professional
coaches are not certified, but drawn from applicants with a wide range of executive
experience (Liljenstrand & Nebeker, 2008. p. 58). The specific problem of the study was
to identify and explain the behaviors, knowledge, and best practices of business coaches
in a distance-learning environment. Facilitators might use distance-learning coaching to
improve the learning environment of online classrooms, support the use of coaching
techniques in an online classroom, promote the successful facilitation of the online
classrooms, and prepare the traditional face-to-face teacher for the role of coach in a
distance-learning environment. This qualitative phenomenological study identified
factors contributing to effective facilitation and best practices by interviewing 20 coaches
at a coaching firm in the western United States using a distance-learning environment.
5
Purpose of the Study
The purpose of this qualitative phenomenological research study, using a
modification of the van Kaam design, was to produce results that illuminate the coaching
phenomenon in a distance-learning environment. The study was designed to produce
results that describe how coaches interact with clients, in a distance-learning
environment, to assist their clients to achieve peak performance. The objective of this
study was to produce data that identify the behavior of coaches in a distance-learning
environment. Many studies have suggested that interactive online technology facilitates
the learning process (Beard, Harper, & Riley, 2002; Goode, 2007; Uhlig, 2002).
Distance-learning permits an exchange of ideas without time or place constraints.
Coaches and learners interact and engage in dialogue throughout the coaching session.
The West Coast Coaching (WCC) firm that is the subject of this study is located in
Carlsbad, California and employs 33 coaches (Wolfe, 2009, personal communication).
The sample of 20 business coaches was drawn from this population. The study used in
person, semi-structured interviews. The interviewer recorded the interviews using an
audio recording device and a professional transcriptionist transcribed them. This study
may contribute to the development of a practical coaching guide that could be
implemented in other coaching firms or in businesses, industry, government, or higher
education institutions that use phone-based coaching or mentoring to improve
performance.
The research design used in this study was Moustakas modification of the van
Kaam design and used semi-structured interviews with a sample of 20 full-time coaches
from WCC. Although WCC is temporarily employing a few part-time coaches because of
6
the recession, only full-time coaches were used in this study. Data were obtained and
analyzed from individual, in person, taped interviews with these coaches. A professional
transcriptionist transcribed these semi-structured interviews.
A qualitative phenomenological research study is an appropriate approach to
conducting qualitative research on coaches in a distance-learning environment because it
centers on the lived experiences of coaches in an online-learning environment as a
phenomenon (Creswell, 2002). Phenomenology is the study of the lived experience, or
the live world, of individuals. It emphasizes the world as lived by the person (van Manen,
1997). Finding meanings as the person lives day-to-day life, the researcher asks, what is
this experience like? without resorting to categorization or conceptualization (Laverty,
2003). Moustakas (1994) stated, Phenomena are the building blocks of human science
and the basis for all knowledge (p. 26).
Phenomenological researchers utilize phenomenological reduction (the process of
continual return to the essence of the experience), (b) horizontalization (the process of
treating all data as having equal weight), and (c) imaginative variation (the process of
exploring data from divergent perspectives) (Lopez & Willis, 2004; Merriam, 2002).
Phenomenology is studied through sustained contact with people in their natural
environments. It generates rich, descriptive data to assist understanding of the experience
of participants (Polit & Beck, 2004).
Variable is a central idea in quantitative research. Simply defined, a variable is a
concept that varies (Neuman, 2003, p. 149). A hypothesis is a proposition to be tested
or a tentative statement of a relationship between two variables (Neuman, p. 150).
Qualitative researchers rarely use variables or test hypotheses. Phenomenological
7
researchers primarily use interview methods to discover the essence and meaning of
perceived experiences even though documents, notes, or observations can also be
valuable data sources (Gall et al., 2003; Lopez & Willis, 2004).
Significance of the Study
Since the 1970s, coaching and mentoring have become recognized techniques for
achieving employee performance improvement (Hargrove, 2003). Coincidentally, also
since the 1970s, andragogy (adults), as opposed to pedagogy (children), has emerged as
one of, if not the dominant, framework(s) for teaching adults (Wilson, 2006). One of the
teaching methods available to instructors in the andragogic model is the method of
Socratic seminars, an instructor-directed form of instruction in which questions are used
as the sole method of teaching (Paraskevas & Wickens, 2003, p. 5). Even though
Paraskevas & Wickens describe these Socratic seminars as instructor-directed, the
instructor in this case is sensitive to the needs of the students and tailors the questions to
the responses of the students. Andragogy and coaching are similar with respect that both
are student focused teaching techniques. Although coaching is popular, the field lacks
measureable outcomes, standards of practice, and competency measures (Marshall,
2006). There is a strong possibility that further codification of coaching could lead, not
only to information that could be helpful in the coaching world, but also in adult
education and education in general.
Significance of the Study to the Field of Leadership
The significance of this study to the field of leadership is that the data it generated
specify the coaching practices used in a distance-learning environment that contribute to
effective coaching. Identification of these specific practices provides senior management
8
in coaching, business, industry, and government with a greater understanding of coaching
behaviors. This study has relevance to situations in business, industry, government, or
higher education where coaching or mentoring is employed. A mentoring process within
a military environment provides an example of the possible broad relevance of the study.
A publication from the United States (U.S.) Army, FM 22-100, Army Leadership
explains, in general terms, the Army mentoring process (Shlechter, 1999). The skills
required by todays Army mentors have significantly changed because of the need to
maintain battlefield status first, just as the intended protg has changed due to the
paradigm shift in the Armys role and generational behaviors.
The intent of this study was to contribute to the research on the practice of
coaching. The results of this study may assist organizations employing coaching or
mentoring programs by suggesting specific initiatives to mitigate any unproductive
practices (Anfara, Brown, & Mangione, 2002). By providing leaders with an effective
framework for coaching practice, these leaders may use these principles as a guide for
mentoring employees, students, and clients.
Nature of the Study
The following section is a summary of research designs considered for use in this
study. This study utilized Moustakas modification of the van Kaam design and used
semi-structured interviews with a sample of 20 coaches at WCC. The study collected data
on the behaviors of coaches in a distance-learning environment. Several research methods
were considered to address the purpose of this study.
Quantitative research focuses on exact measurements into areas such as business
research, consumer behavior, and extent of understandings, knowledge, attitudes, and
9
opinions (Cooper & Schindler, 2003). In quantitative research, the researcher selects what
to study, and presents questions that provide narrow results that can be analyzed
statistically (Creswell, 2005). In 2008, Liljenstrand of the Bader Group and Nebeker from
National University did a web-based survey of 2231 coaches. The researchers found the
quantitative method was not able to capture all aspects of the coaching interaction and
suggested further research using other methodologies (p. 62).
Mixed method research comprises qualitative data, text and/or images and
quantitative data (numbers) and is designed to provide a closely defined understanding of
the study problem. Mixed methodology employs both quantitative and qualitative data in
the same study, often in different phases of the research (Creswell, 2005). Action
research, which employs both quantitative and qualitative methodologies, is designed to
obtain information and knowledge about a complex practical problem about which little
is known, and therefore, no data exist (Mills, 2006). This method involves reiterative
processes and the application of corrective measures, followed by more iterative
processes. Coaching studies that use quantitative methodologies exist. These studies are
documented in chapter 2. The authors of many of these studies noted that quantitative
methods were unable to capture the subtleties of the coaching process (Liljenstrand &
Nebeker, 2008, p. 62) thus; action research was rejected as a method for this study.
Qualitative research encompasses a wide range of techniques that provide descriptions,
translations and other processes for dealing with meanings, rather than dealing with
frequency or numerical results pertaining to social phenomena (Cooper & Schindler,
2003). These researchers added that qualitative studies focus on analysis of content
collected from written or recorded evidence.
10
There are four forms of qualitative studies that were considered prior to selection
of a design appropriate for the present study. A grounded theory design was rejected
because it is a systematic procedure employed to generate a theory that provides an
explanation at a macro-conceptual level of a process, action/interaction, or about a
substantive theory (Creswell, 2005). Grounded theorists proceed through a number of
steps to collect data, identify themes, and they then connect the themes to form a theory.
Grounded theory depends on a process of comparing data to the theory to refine further
the theory. This study design did not match the intent of the study. An ethnographic study
is a design for studying a single group of participants in their workplace and at home in
order to develop a picture of the way the participants interact (Mills, 2003). This type of
study design was inappropriate for the present study. A narrative design (Creswell, 2005)
is focused on an overview of one or two people. As the present study involved 20
respondents, a narrative study was inappropriate.
Phenomenological studies are another qualitative design. Creswell described this
method as, the examination of human experiences through detailed descriptions of the
people being studied. The procedure involves studying a small number of subjects
through extensive and prolonged engagement to develop patterns/relationships of
meaning (1994, p. 12). Because prior studies identified problems with capturing the
subtleties of the coaching experience using quantitative methodologies, the
phenomenological method was considered the most appropriate for this study. A
qualitative phenomenological research study is the most appropriate approach to
centers on the lived experiences of coaches in an online-learning environment as a
11
phenomenon (Creswell, 2002). Other qualitative approaches would not have explored
adequately the phenomenon of coaching in a distance-learning environment.
Research Questions
This qualitative phenomenological study was designed to produce descriptive data
that explore the characteristics and behaviors of executive coaches in a distance-learning
environment. The data produced by the study provided new knowledge and insight into
the practices of executive coaches, in a distance-learning environment, as they worked to
help clients achieve peak performance. The study was designed to produce data that may
offer descriptive answers to the following questions:
1. What practices, characteristics, and behaviors are present in a business coaching
environment?
2. What practices, characteristics, and behaviors are present in a distance-learning
business coaching environment?
3. Are business coaches aware of and do they use adult teaching methods?
Theoretical Framework
Heider (1958), author of The Psychology of Interpersonal Relations, stated that it
is the work of scientists to discover answers using scientific methodologies. He is
credited with providing the essence of attribution theory. Attribution theory was the start
of an explanation for why people do what they do. Heider asserted that practitioners of
scientific psychology have much to learn from practitioners of common-sense
psychology. Jones and Davis (1965) elaborated upon Heiders contributions with the
theory of correspondent inference. Correspondent inference addressed what can be
12
inferred about the object of an observation, and it was congruent with the social learning
theory of Rotter (1966).
Social learning theory suggested that personality cannot be separated from a
person and the environment, and it was defined by how a person responded to the
environment. Social learning theory referred to the idea that people learn from one
another by observing, imitating, and modeling (Ormrod, 1999). In 1967, Kelley was the
first to connect attribution theory to Heiders work with various hypotheses related to
internal and external attributions. Bem (1967) further developed these ideas by adding
self-perception theory attributing peoples actions to their own self-perceptions.
This study generated descriptive data from professional coaches in action. From
this data, it is possible to determine differences between the coaches techniques and
those of professional educators. The conceptual framework for this study was social
learning theory; how the coaches responded to their environment in terms of individual
differences, as opposed to specific recommended teaching pedagogies. The following
section summarizes current theories regarding adult learning, which are intrinsically
relevant to the practice of coaching.
A major contribution to education theory was developed by Bloom, the Associate
Director of the Board of Examinations at the University of Chicago in the 1950s
(Krathwohl, 2002). Over subsequent decades, Blooms work became an internationally
accepted system for structuring educational goals. Researchers continue to review and
revise the framework because current practice has proved its usefulness and relevance (p.
213). Bloom led a team of cognitive psychologists who developed a classification system,
known as a taxonomy that provided a structure for teaching and toward a more precise
13
assessment of what students had learned. The taxonomy classified statements of what
we expect or intend students to learn as a result of instruction (p. 212).
Carl Rogers is recognized as one of the early founders of the Humanistic
approach to psychology. Rogers theories relied on an emphasis on the client. Personcentered therapy is based on the concept that therapists should avoid any external
evaluation by the counselor and fully accept the client. In coaching, this equates to
encouraging clients to find answers within themselves and in the end learn to solve
problems for themselves (Haan, 2006).
Gallweys book The Inner Game of Tennis and the other Inner Game books that
followed were recognized by Seiler as part of the impetus for the current rise in coaching
popularity (n.d). The model for coaching in sports relies on the coach as an expert in a
particular sport. Goode referred to this as a tell versus ask model (2007, p. 20).
Gallwey reversed this model in his book, The Inner Game of Tennis. Gallweys simple
formula is P = p I where P = performance, p = potential, and I = interference. Gallwey
saw the job of the coach as facilitating the players ability to minimize interference
(Flower & Guillaume, 2001).
Mentoring
Defining the process of mentorship is challenging, as, according to Schlecter
(2003), there are multiple definitions that organizations use for such a process. Mentoring
can be defined as the relationship between an experienced person, the mentor, and an
inexperienced person, the protg. According to Waldron, (1999), the mentor or coach
assumes a dominant posture toward those who are the subject of the activities. Waldron
14
offered further clarification of the activity of mentoring by describing four activities that
define different forms of mentoring. The four activities are:
(a) Personal activities, such as informal communications that occur when
mentor/protg conversations are carried out during joking, or when both
participants are sharing personal experiences with one another or interacting at
social events.
(b) Direct activities, such as communication or conversation about personal
views including opinions, expectations of one another, or perceptions.
(c) Regulative activities that involve efforts to limit or manage contacts,
communications, or display of emotions.
(d) Contractual activities that are involved in formal communications such as
agreements, accepting criticism, showing respect, or participation in coaching
classes. (p. 1191)
In summary, although this study focused on the nations largest coaching firm,
internal company knowledge of coaching techniques had been gained through experience
in coaching, as opposed to the study of education pedagogy. There was a gap in the
knowledge about the application of distance-learning by telephone, particularly to the
extent to which phone-based coaches can follow standard teaching practices.
Motivation
In comparison to a number of needs theories of motivation, the foundational
theory of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation has been described simply. Lucas (2006)
described intrinsic motivation as motivation that a person felt based on internal feelings
of satisfaction and desire, which, in turn were based on the persons values, perception of
15
the situation, and the comfort and trust the person felt when interacting with others
involved. A person who is extrinsically motivated, as described by Lucas, will react
positively or negatively toward a situation based on the value the person placed on an
external reward (e.g. food money, social acceptance) being offered to do the required
work.
Hackman and Oldham (1980) presented a theory that established a relationship
between conditions surrounding a job and the presence of intrinsic motivation. According
to Hackman and Oldham, companies could enhance positive attitudes and improve work
quality by improving work based on five dimensions. These dimensions included: (a)
variety (the requirement for different skills and talents), (b) identity (the requirement for
completing a significant and observable finished portion of the job, (c) significance (the
importance of the work as measured by the impact the job had on the lives of other
people, (d) autonomy (the measure of the amount of freedom the worker enjoyed while
doing the job, and (e) feedback (the level of definitive information the worker received
pertaining to performance.
Hackman and Oldham observed that workers produced higher levels of
performance because of the perceived positive reception of the results. Staw (1977)
suggested that intrinsically motivated workers felt satisfied with tasks that were well
done; therefore, they worked with more focus. Hackman and Oldham argued that
intrinsic motivation would lessen sharply any loss of focus and eliminated intervals
during which workers tended to lose concentration. Podsakoff, MacKenzie, Moorman,
and Fetter (1990) indicated that workers who connected their own success with the values
and goals of the enterprise were highly motivated to do all that was necessary to ensure a
16
positive outcome. As with any system, coaches must focus on the continuing need for
workers to focus attention and effort to optimize their potential. The success of adult
learning is dependent on the positive motivation of the players. The following section is a
summary of current theory regarding adult learning.
Definition of Terms
Downey (2003) offered a definition of coaching as the art of facilitating the
performance, learning, and development of another (p. 21) while equating
performance with goal achievement and the execution of a task, or a general result in
greater efficiency and effectiveness (p. 21). Learning is distinguished from development
in that learning is related to tasks while development is concerned with greater selfawareness and personal growth (p. 21). Downey preferred the term facilitator over
teacher because facilitating implies the student can learn without being shown the
specifics of a task, and the facilitator has more of a role of helping the student explore,
gain better understanding and make better decisions when approaching a task (p. 21).
In the current study, andragogy and pedagogy are educational terms that require
definition. Pedagogic instruction is a means of standardizing instruction by subject area.
Pedagogy has predetermined goals that are non-negotiable by the student while in
andragogy the learner participates in goal setting (Conner, 2004).
Distance-learning is a key term in the current study. Gerlich (2005) defined
distance-learning as: (a) the use of technical media to unite mentor, advisor, coach, or
instructor and learner; (b) the provision for two-way communication so the student may
benefit from two-way conversation; and (c) the absence of a learning group during the
learning process. Distance-learning includes limited face-to-face onsite instruction,
17
residencies, telephone/teleconference, e-mail, course room, chat rooms, newsgroups,
discussion boards, blackboards, WebCT, TTVN.
The West Coast coaching firm that is the subject of this study once used the term
master coaches to define coaches that supervise other coaches. In the midst of this
study, the firm stopped using supervisory coaches and no longer uses the term master
coaches. Servant leader is used to define the regular employees of the company. The
term, core leaders, is used to designate the employees who serve leadership roles in the
company. WCC operates in a distance-learning environment. To support its coaching
practice, the company uses the Internet, group seminars, and the telephone. Weekly
telephone calls are termed coaching calls (Lopez, 2008, personal communication).
18
Assumptions
Every measure reasonably possible was taken to assure objectivity and
representation of the field of study. The following assumptions are inherent in the
research design:
1. All volunteers for this study were unbiased and truthful in all responses.
2. Coaches and their activities corresponded to the teaching pedagogy and
represented the desires of the corporation.
3. Coaches activities reflected their andragogy when on assignment.
4. The possibility of personality conflicts or problems may have been a factor that
could have biased participants.
5. The researcher was unbiased.
6. Participants had a common perspective about coaching and its effectiveness.
7. The interviews reveal a common area of knowledge.
8. Interpretation of the notes and codes from the interviews and analysis might have
involved some interviewer conscious or unconscious biases that might have
interfered with the validity of the results (Hamel, Dufour, & Fortin, 1993; Lincoln
& Guba, 1985).
19
Limitations
The study used a sample of 20 coaches from one corporation in the service sector.
Business coaches who are consultants to firm clients formed the population for study. All
consultants who responded positively to an invitation to participate constituted the
population. The protean nature of the business environment or economic conditions may
have influenced attitudes of the participants. Research was limited to assessing coaching
effectiveness and no data were collected regarding the profitability of the firm, nor was
success of coaching assessed in terms of the financial health of the WCC; hence deleted
profitability was not used as a measure of coaching effectiveness. This study focused on
coaching techniques and adult learning principles only. This study was confined to
surveying a sample of the 20 coaches employed by WCC. The focus of this study was
coaching practices and adult teaching practices. Only willing participants were included
in the study.
Summary
Most of the literature discusses coaching in the context of sports or focuses on the
area of executive coaching (Kilburg, 1996). Although there has been a study on coaching
as it applies to teacher practice improvement and strengthening of connections between
the district central office and its schools, there is little research on the application of
coaching techniques to teaching in general (Coggins, 2005). Coaching has a rich history
that may guide educational leaders in the difficult decisions that these leaders need to
make in solving the problems of education.
A structured research method has not been applied to the area of coaching
(Kilburg, 1996). Educational research may benefit from this study and there is a
20
possibility that generalizeable results might be applied to current problems in education.
There was also a need to codify best coaching practices at WCC. Chapter 2 will present a
review of the literature surrounding the topic of coaching as it relates to education.
21
CHAPTER 2: LITERATURE REVIEW
The purpose of this chapter is to support the problem identified in Chapter 1, that
there is limited knowledge regarding the practice of coaching in a distance-learning
environment, especially as related to the education of adults. Chapter 2 presents the title
searches, articles, research documents, and journals reviewed for this quantitative study,
organized under three major themes: (a) distance-learning, (b) adult education literature,
and (c) coaching literature, followed by a chapter summary. The scope of the literature is
summarized, including the gaps in current knowledge revealed by the research. The
chapter will end with conclusions drawn from the reviewed literature.
Documentation
A thorough literature review was conducted. Sixty-six of the sources in this
proposal were recent (i.e., within 5 years). Although this represents only 52 % of the total
references used, the total number of references was 127, which is more than double the
number of references generally seen in such a proposal (University of Phoenix, personal
communication, 2009). Scholarly articles and peer-reviewed journals were included in
the review of the literature by use of the ProQuest and other scholarly databases. A search
of the ProQuest article database of peer-reviewed scholarly journals for coaching in
education retrieved 274 results. The majority of the titles concerned physical education
coaching. Title searches were done through the Web using Amazon.com. A title search of
Amazon.com revealed 52,373 titles on distance-learning, coaching, adult education, and
standard educational practices.
Amazon.com suggested related searches that included coaching football (2,086
titles), executive coaching (1,839 titles), and life coaching (2,301 titles). A title search of
22
coaching educational leadership returned 272 titles. Most of these titles focused on the
area of leadership coaching for educational staff members. Although a title search of
coaching teaching returned 4,120 books on the Amazon.com site, a detailed review of
these titles revealed they were concerned with sports coaching.
A Google Scholar search in articles for the year 2008, using the words executive
coaching in the title, without the word sports, retrieved 12 results. Two of the 12 results
were citations only and not complete articles. The results of this search indicated a
paucity in recent scholarly literature on the topic of executive coaching.
Literature Review
Although little empirical research exists on coaching in the context of education
or business, there does appear to be relevant literature dealing with related topics. There
are publications recently introduced into the scholarly marketplace: The International
Journal of Coaching in Organizations; The Journal of Evidenced Based Coaching; and
The Evidenced Based Coaching Handbook. The above journals specifically target
coaching research, thus demonstrating a demand for empirically based literature. All of
these recent developments are promising for the field of coaching practice; yet, there are
still considerable obstacles for evidenced-based coaching research (Marshall, 2006, p.
26).
Historical Overview
According to Seiler (n.d.), Nietzsche, Sartre, and the teachings of Buddha
provided the foundation for modern coaching. Seiler found evidence of client orientation
in the literature of psychotherapy. Coaching also stemmed from the work of the major
therapy schools, and particularly behavioral concepts, the person centered approach,
23
cognitive psychology, family therapy, as well as hypnosis (Seiler, n.d. p. 2). Williams
also found evidence of this. Many psychological theorists and practitioners from the
early 1900s onward have influenced the development and evolution of the field of
business coaching (2003, p. 22).
The early theories of James are an influence on coaches when they encourage
their clients to interpret life and work purposefully (Williams, 2003). Adler (1956) helped
clients organize the way they lived: People were perceived as able to create, craft, and
execute their own lives. Clients were assisted as they set goals, both short and long term
and his techniques directly influence coaching today. Jung (1953) proposed that we
create our own futures by envisioning what we want those futures to be.
The purpose of Blooms taxonomy was to guide teachers and those who design
curricula with a framework for writing learning objectives, goals and examination
questions (1956). A tenet of Blooms work was that students should be compared less
with each other and more with the achievement of structured, stated goals. The process of
classification of educational domains commenced with the division of learning into three
major areas: cognitive, affective, and psychomotor. The cognitive domain reflected a
person's ability to acquire and use knowledge and information. The affective domain was
concerned with the attitudes and feelings of students. The psychomotor domain related to
mastery of skills using fine manipulation or the gross motor, physical skills.
Bloom assembled a team of educational psychologists to consider each of the first
two domains, further classifying and adding detail. Blooms team did not attempt the last
domain, stating they had limited experience in the teaching of physical skills. Why they
apparently did not consult with physical education departments of universities,
24
physiotherapists, or coaches is unanswered. In each domain, learning was organized in
hierarchical structure from simple to complex, reflecting Blooms belief that not all
knowledge was equal. Originally, the taxonomy for the cognitive domain offered
Knowledge, Comprehension, Application, Analysis, Synthesis, and Evaluation
(Krathwohl, 2002, p. 212). Each category included carefully worded listings that
provided definitions for the categories. These listings included knowledge (typically
answering the who, what, when and where type of question) and progressed through steps
such as comprehension (describe in your own words) and application (use this
information) until the student was not only able to apply the knowledge, but analyze it in
the final stage of evaluation (judge the value of).
Educators who were starting to use the framework discovered an emphasis on the
type of learning objectives in existing curricula that required only recognition or recall of
information. These educators were able to move curricula and tests toward objectives that
involved the understanding and use of knowledge as classified. Educators deemed these
goals more appropriate (Bloom, 1956). The categories and listings outlined above
demonstrated what Eisner considered to be one of Blooms greatest talents, having a
nose for what is significant (2000, p. 2). In the current context, what is significant?
answered the question: What is it that the recipient of coaching needs to know to achieve
the stated goals. Blooms taxonomy continues to influence the practice of education and,
in the intervening decades, the taxonomy has been the beneficiary of further serious
development in all the domains of learning (Anderson & Krathwohl, 2001; Harrow,
1972;).
25
The football coaching bible includes a chapter on maximizing the ability of
players (American Football Coaches Association, 2002). Throughout this text, the
kinesthetic domain ignored by Blooms taxonomy is discussed. The chapter on ability
maximization emphasized the importance of finding a players current ability and
knowledge (p. 173), a starting point common to contemporary practice in general
education. After finding the players current levels of ability and knowledge, the text
advised that the coach should use drills on the field to work on weak areas. This
contradicted other writers that advised a focus on strengths. The chapter stated that it was
important to know a players learning style and to treat each learning situation as unique,
requiring different responses from the coach. This approach was reflected in
contemporary texts. (Downey, 2003; Gallwey, 1974)
Rogers was an early leader in this area. His seminal work, Freedom to Learn
(1994), changed counseling and therapy to where the client was asked to take
responsibility for personal change and growth (Williams, 2003). Rogers 'personcentered' ideas can be translated directly into coaching practice (Haan, 2006, p. 56).
Person-centered therapy is based on the concept that therapists should fully accept the
client and avoid any external evaluation by the counselor. In coaching, this equates to
encouraging clients to think for themselves and find answers within themselves (Haan,
2006).
Many have claimed to identify the founder of modern coaching. Chastell (n.d.)
asserted that Dr. Norman Vincent Peales The Power of Positive Thinking makes Peale
one of the pioneers. Peales 1952 book outlined how individuals might overcome defeat
through faith and be enabled to achieve worthwhile goals. Other transformational leaders
26
from the spectrum of history are mentioned in this context: Dale Carnegie, Mao Tse-tung,
Sir Edmund Hilary, Aristotle, Malcolm Rose, and Joan of Arc. Chastell chose these
leaders because all emphasized a positive state of mind to achieve their diverse goals.
Seiler (n.d.) also took an historical approach. He believed the profession of
coaching started with sports coaching in the 1960s. By the 1970s, the Neuro-Linguistic
Programming School posited several techniques that were designed to assist individuals
to engage their personal resources to achieve long-term goals. Seiler made a strong case
for Gallwey as the founder of modern coaching in that, in 1974, Gallwey wrote the book,
The Inner Game of Tennis. This book and the other Inner Game books that followed were
recognized by Seiler as part of the impetus for the current rise in coaching popularity,
alongside the personal growth theories of Erhard (n.d). The model for coaching in sports
relied on the coach as an expert in a particular sport. Goode referred to this as a tell
versus ask model (Goode, 2007, p. 20). Gallwey reversed this model in the book, The
Inner Game of Tennis. Gallweys simple formula is P = p I where P = performance, p =
potential, and I = interference. Gallwey saw the job of the coach as facilitating the
players ability to minimize interference (Flower & Guillaume, 2001).
During the decade that followed, executive coaching was the term that came to be
used in business with the rise of consultation activities that focused on managers and
senior leaders (Kilburg, 1996). Tobias asserted that the practice of coaching was a
repackaging of practices that were part of the counseling and consulting fields. As an
intervention strategy, coaching had a less threatening connotation and implied an ongoing relationship that was specifically for the individual and the current issue or
problem (Tobias, 1996).
27
In the 1990s, Leonard, Witworth, and Kimsey-House suggested a structure of
techniques and theories (Seiler, n.d.). A variety of formal research, published in the 1990s
on coaching in management in the form of graduate dissertations and non-dissertation
research studies of coaching in organizations, was published. The majority of this
literature promoted the benefits of managers using coaching techniques to empower their
players to push their enterprises toward peak performance: Solving issues at the lower
levels of the organization would achieve this (Kilburg, 1996).
In his book, The art of happiness: A handbook for living, the 14th Dalai Lama,
Tenzin Gyatso, stated that the unconscious is a factor that Buddhism could offer to the
western mind, embodied in his statement, the purpose of our life is to seek happiness
(1998, p. 13). He advocated commencing by developing understanding of the truest
sources of happiness and setting priorities in life based on the cultivation of those
sources (p.293). This required inner discipline (p.293) and that one should replace
destructive mental states with positive, constructive states of mind, such as kindness,
tolerance, and forgiveness (p. 293). This unconscious concern of being sure of ones
goals and eliminating negative influences and noise that hinder performance is a theme
seen many times in this review of coaching literature.
Current Findings
The need for continued research in the field of coaching is clear. In a dissertation
entitled, The Critical Factors of Coaching Practice Leading to Successful Coaching
Outcomes, written for a doctorate at Antioch University, Marshall (2006) discovered that,
despite coachings rapid rise in popularity, the empirical research on coaching is just
now beginning to emerge as the field continues to grapple with the issues of
28
competencies, standards of practice, and outcome measures (p. 26). Despite the
development and use of theories and methods for executive coaching, the scientific basis
for these applications is extremely limited (Kilburg, 1996, p. 136). Kilburg asserted,
There is a significant, ongoing problem of a lack of empirical research on the actual
work of senior practitioners in the field (p. 135). A further quality concern compounds
the above in that, the majority of articles currently available in the literature are practice
articles veiled as research since many of these articles are more self-promotional than
honoring a strong research base (Marshall, 2006, p. 27).
There is little formal training or research being conducted (Kampa-Kokesch &
Anderson, 2001). When Kampa-Kokesch and Anderson performed an extensive review
of the literature related to the coaching of executives, they found only seven studies of an
empirical nature. There is a need for standardization and research on the effectiveness of
executive coaching. This new field is poorly defined and is not regulated, as determined
by Kampa-Kokesch and Anderson.
According to Marshall (2006), coaching is a new cross-disciplinary profession
and, typically, coaches tend to enter into coaching after having established themselves in
a career area relevant to their coaching practice (p. 29). Career areas are diverse.
Coaches bring expertise from fields such as sports, teaching, workplace training,
business, management, psychology, real estate, and others. Possibly due to its diverse
roots, there has been little published academic research on coaching, with only 131
papers in the peer-reviewed behavioural [sic] science press (as at [sic] December 13th
2003) (Grant & Zackon, 2004, p. 1). Because these disciplines have an individual
knowledge base, theoretical framework, and practical applied experience, they all bring
29
with them the possibility of adding to the knowledge base of coaching (Grant & Zackon,
2004).
Although sports coaching has a long history, the business of executive coaching
is a relatively new development. This field has grown rapidly evolving into a $1 billion
industry, which continues to grow at a rate of 20% a year (Goode, 2007, p. 20). The
irony is that this new field has learned much from the world of sports coaching and this
has come full circle because the world of sports coaching is now learning from this new
field of executive coaching (Downey, 2003). Because this is a new profession, definitions
and practices are only now beginning to emerge. Attempts to define the field are shaded
and in some cases prejudiced by the authors educational and professional disciplines,
training, and the kind of consulting, psychotherapy, or coaching experience with which
they are familiar (Douglas & Morley, 2000, p. 39). Although this is an emerging field
coaching, as it is known today, can be traced back to Socrates (Edwards, 2003).
Marshall (2006) identified that research articles could be found dating back to the
late 1950s and early 1960s (Grant, 2003), but the majority of empirical studies on
coaching began appearing in the mid to late 1990s. However, Kilburg (1996) stated that
most of these studies focused on coaching were applied to various types and levels of
athletic performance. According to Seiler, in the 1980s, corporations began to apply
coaching techniques to enhance the education of their key executives. As a result,
coaching has been applied to all levels in organizations (n.d.).
Distinctions between types of coaching continued. In the 1990s, Kilburg was
surprised to find a large number of articles about the application of coaching techniques
to change problem behaviors of various populations. Grant and Zackon (2004) observed
30
the distinct difference between business coaching and executive coaching from the
perspective of business development. The researchers found that small business coaches
were targeting different areas, depending on the needs of their clients. Coaches working
with small businesses reported targeting sales, marketing of products, and customer
relationships.
In contrast, organizational or executive coaches found the focus of their coaching
to be leadership development, change management, and team building. However, this
division of focus was not found consistently: Rossett (2005) claimed statistically
significant results, measured by sales, for those real estate executives who had received
coaching under the auspices of a globally based real estate firm. Marshall (2006)
suggested that different foci required different strategies, skills, and methodologies from
coaches.
The term player is frequently used in coaching even when the coaching is not
sports coaching. Downey (2003) prefers this term to coachee because coachee is passive
and does not slip off the tongue as well. The word player gives primacy to the recipient
and acknowledges that the recipient will be performing whatever actions emerge from the
coaching (Downey, 2003). Downey favored the idea that, some of the time, people might
approach work with a positive and creative mindset or playfulness.
There is a technique in coaching that Downey (2003) calls following interest. He
asked players what they noticed and which of those things they found most interesting.
This guided the players into discovering what helped or hampered performance and
assisted the players to solve problems. This is a student-focused technique, and is
31
dependent on motivation. The following section is an exploration of motivation as it
applies to those who are players.
Adams text explored a method for changing life experiences by consistently
choosing questions that promote success in professional and personal life. Adams
presented an outline of powerful and simple tools that encouraged letting go of
entrenched attitudes that hold people back from their goals (2004). Change your question
change your life, describes a choice between two paths when asking questions about life.
In the judger path, the subject tended to fall into what Adams termed a judger pit. In the
judger pit, the questioner asked questions similar to, why cant I ever win? (p. 32),
why are they always so dumb and irritating? (p. 32), and why bother? (p. 32). In this
case, the focus was on relating to something as a win or lose situation. The subject
questioned what was intrinsically wrong with the subjects self and others. Another
pathway was termed the learner path, in which the subject asked, what happened? (p.
32), what do I want? (p. 32), and what are the facts? (p. 32). In this path, the subject
placed more focus on solutions. The initial questions led to answers similar to, what
assumptions am I making? (p. 32), what are my choices? (p. 32), what is possible
(p. 32), and what is the best thing to do now (p. 32). Coaches might use the information
outlined in this book to help coachees eliminate interference that is keeping them from
their goals (Gallwey, 1974).
Orenstein also found that substantive literature regarding the field [coaching]
has remained relatively limited (2006, p. 107). Specifically Orenstein addressed the lack
of research on coaching efficacy and outcome evaluations of coaching interventions.
Orensteins article described a case study that was done over a four-year period by the
32
consulting firm Alderfer and Brown. The consulting firm used an instrument termed the
Empathic Organic Questionnaire, used previously to address systemic issues in
organizations.
Libri and Kemp did a single subject case study on coaching efficacy in 2006.
Their study examined the effects of a cognitive behavioural-based [sic] executive
coaching intervention for a finance sales executive (Libri & Kemp, 2006, p. 9). The
researchers stated that coaching invention did have a positive effect on the performance
of the individual being studied, suggested that cognitive behavioral techniques be
considered by coaches, and called for further research.
In a study of Australian coaches and the coaching industry, Grant and OHara
revealed that these coaches made exaggerated statements promoting themselves. The
authors suggested that potential students should check credentials. Grant and OHara also
stated that the schools should distinguish themselves from the mental health professions
and participate in formal credentialing (Grant & OHara, 2006, p. 21). Dagley conducted
a study and found that human resources professionals had a positive view of executive
coaching and would consider using it in the future. The human resources professionals
only reservations were problems with executives availability and concern for return on
investment. Dagley pointed out that this market has been largely untapped by the
coaching industry (Dagley, 2006, p. 34).
Hieker and Huffington pointed out that coaches should not issue commands and
that using reflexive questions can force coachees to take responsibility for their own
success and raise awareness of what coachees need in order to move forward with their
goals (Hieker & Huffington, 2006, p. 48). The authors discussed several types of
33
questions that fell into this category. The paper stated that even though coaches do need
to take positions and make statements, finding a good balance between statements and
questions is identified as important in the coaching process.
There was a study done by the National Health Services (NHS) of the United
Kingdom in 2006. This study was part of a leadership development program and used an
online tool called the Coaching Competence Self-Review (CCSR) tool (Law, Ireland, &
Hussain, 2006, p. 56). The review included 100 questions spread over 18 segments. Law
et al. evaluated the results using a linear regression and an analysis of variance, together
with a qualitative review, to affect a triangulation process. The results indicated that
competence in coaching and mentoring was associated with personal competence.
The text, Co-active coaching: New skills for coaching people towards success in
work and life, stated that executive coaching had risen from consideration as a niche
consulting specialty or thought to apply only to sports teams (Whitworth, KimseyHouse, Kimsey-House, & Sandahl, 2007, back cover) to be one of the fastest-growing
professions in the world (back cover). A key technique outlined in co-active coaching is
the ability of the coach to dance in the moment. This ability is something learned from
kinesthetic coaching (sports). Dancing in the moment is the coachs ability to be flexible
and unattached, to stay curious about the unfolding situation and adjust instinctively
(Whitworth et al., p. xv). This position occurs in direct opposition to the principles of a
pedagogic instructor where the expectation is that the script will be adhered to and that all
the items of a predetermined lesson plan will be addressed.
Stones states, Good managers, like good coaches, practice situational
management, adapting the degree of direction they provide employees to their experience
34
and self-confidence and to the nature and importance of the task assigned (2007, p. 58).
The text defined coaching as the process by which individuals gain the skills, abilities,
and knowledge they need to develop themselves professionally and in their jobs (p. 11).
Counseling was defined as to develop an action plan to bring performance up to
minimum expectations, if not higher (p. 76). Finally, mentoring is defined as to share
your experience, wisdom, political savvy, to enable your top performers to take on tasks
beyond those designated in their job descriptions (p. 158).
Gray set out to identify what kinds of models of supervision are appropriate to
coach (Gray, 2007, p. 300). The paper pointed out that coaches were largely
unregulated, lacked any recognized certification, and did not have any requirements for
entry into the coaching industry. Gray concluded that it is more difficult to supervise the
coaching process because coaching lacks a unifying theoretical model (Gray, p. 308). In
2007, Goode undertook a qualitative study at Columbia University, which integrated
adult learning concepts and coaching. This study involved 20 coaches. Goode
recommended more research to access the extent executive coaches understand and
employ principles of adult learning in their practice (p. 172) and further study in the
subject of distance coaching (p. 171).
In 2007, Battley wrote a paper on the myths of coaching. She asserted that
executive coaching was a new method of leadership service. This newness translated to
poor understanding, by the clients of the service, of what the service involved or how it
added measurable value to an organization (p. 20). She identified six areas where myths
prevailed in common knowledge about coaching. Battley described the myth of the
individual where people tended to over interpret their success in areas as solely related to
35
personal prowess and minimize external factors. The jaded myth described executives
who were oversaturated with data to the point that meaningful information eluded them.
Many believed that coaches were psychotherapists and that coaching involves radical
personality change or losing existing executive strengths (p. 22). Some were hesitant to
start coaching in fear of being dependant on another for personal growth. The paper also
discussed other myths about coaching.
MacKie discussed a possible model from the world of psychology as a tool for
evaluating the success of coaching interventions. The paper included a brief history of
coaching outcome literature and pointed out that no studies existed that measured the
coaching elements and outcomes. MacKie suggested the four-stage Kirkpatrick model
that had been used previously to evaluate the effectiveness of training and management
development intervention (2007, p. 310).
In the paper written for the Consulting Psychology Journal, Passmore proposed
an integrative model for executive coaching. Passmores model brings together a series
of evidence-based approaches to build an integrated model for executive coaching
(2007, p. 68). Passmore recognized the central importance of building a coaching
partnership and the role of emotional intelligence (p. 68) in coaching. Passmore
identified six streams in play in his coaching model (p. 68).
The first stream that Passmore mentioned was building the coaching relationship
(p. 69). This stream drew on the humanistic tradition and positive psychology (p. 69). In
the second stream, the coach strove to maintain the coaching partnership (p. 69). Three of
the streams Passmore identified were based on Scheins work in organizational culture
(p. 70). Passmore stated that behavioral change is the core of all executive coaching and
36
that the coachee needed to make conscious cognitive attempts to deepen the coachees
understanding of the relationship between their [sic] thoughts and their [sic] behavior (p.
70). Coaches also tried to bring cognitive processes which are outside of conscious
awareness into conscious awareness. (p. 70). The cultural context in which the coaching
occurred surrounded Passmores model. This context considered ethical, legislative, and
organizational constraints imposed on the coaching relationship (p. 70).
Seligman (2007) also tied the positivist psychology movement to coaching. He
proposed, Positive psychology can provide coaching with an evidence based framework
and a defined scope of practice (p. 266). He asserted that the profession of coaching
lacked the training and accreditation processes, evidence-based interventions, boundaries,
and valid measures that could be provided by positive psychology.
Latham pointed out, [t]o date the coaching literature has been dominated by
practitioner contributions, and the commercial coaching industry itself has been
significantly influenced by simplistic folk psychology and pseudoscientific approaches
(2007, p. 68). The suggestion was made that, when conducting research for evidencebased management on coaching, or any other management practice (p. 269) the
researcher should take no research without action (p. 269) and take no action without
research (p. 269). Latham also warned against the application of findings based on fad
or fashion (p. 269).
Nagel (2008) offered a description of coaching that placed a focus on solutions,
rather than dwelling on what was not working. He identified creating a baseline and goal
setting as the first step in solutions based coaching. Coachees were directed to envision a
future where a problem was solved. Identifying measureable outcomes was the final step
37
in this model. Coachees then attempted to continue behaviors that moved closer to the
solution and discontinue behaviors that were not working (p. 11).
In 2008, The British Psychological Society did a study on the challenges of
researching executive coaching. The researchers stated that, despite the increase in
coaching research, there is still a lack of studies using randomised [sic] controlled trial
(Ellam-Dyson & Palmer, 2008, p. 79). The design of this research encountered problems
such as confidentiality, fairness, and dropout rates of the busy executives involved in the
studies.
A qualitative study was done in South Africa titled, The Integrated experiential
executive coaching model: A Qualitative exploration (Chapman & Cilliers, 2008, p. 1).
This model has its origin on the developmental learning model of Wilbur and experiential
learning model of Kolb. The study found eight theme that focuses on the development of
the self, relationship with others and learning in the work setting. Chapman and Cilliers
found this model was transformational and leveraged the individuals experience.
Coachees were empowered by directing their own courses and attached emotional
meaning to their choices, which resulted in buy-in to the concepts of the model.
Liljenstrand of the Bader Group, San Diego, and Nebeker from National
University did a web-based survey in 2008 of 2,231 coaches. The goal of the research
was to determine how coaches from various backgrounds practiced coaching.
Liljenstrand and Nebeker found that coaches came from varying educational
backgrounds. Sixty-seven percent of the coaches were female with a larger proportion in
the area of business. The largest percentage of female coaches (2008, p. 62) was found
38
in education. Liljenstrand and Nebekers study pointed to a need for more research using
methods other than the quantitative method they used.
The researchers stated that coaching research was in its infancy and there was a
need for quantitative measures of coaching success in the coaching industry. Liljenstrand
and Nebeker surmised that studies of coaching through quantitative survey were limited
because these surveys could not capture all the aspects of the coaching process (2008). A
need for studies using a more focused qualitative research design that considered the
coaching situation in more detail and with more flexibility, in order to respond to
unforeseen circumstances in a coaching environment was identified in this study.
Liljenstrand and Nebeker had examined coaching using a large population and
quantitative methodology.
Researchers who published in the Journal of Development and Learning in
Organizations found that middle and senior managers who had been coached outperformed middle and senior managers who were not coached. The researchers
questioned whether this increased performance justified the cost of the training. The
paper cited a year-long study that examined 30 senior and middle managers in U. S.
Army recruiting. The researchers found that buy-in was a significant factor and that this
buy-in most influenced middle managers (Preaching the Holy Trinity of Recruitment
Management, 2008). This paper cited an earlier collaborative study between the
Uniformed Services University, Bowling Green State University, and U.S. Department of
Veteran Affairs.
The Uniformed Services University, Bowling Green State University, and
Department of Veteran Affairs completed a study aimed at testing the effectiveness of
39
coaching for middle and executive level managers within a large recruiting organization
(Bowles, Cunningham, & De La Rosa, 2007, p. 388). The study used what they called a
small and nontraditional sample of military recruits (Bowles et al., p. 388). Thirty
middle managers and 29 executive managers from U.S. Army recruiting were sampled.
Although some statistical analysis was provided, the study did not state the entire
population size so it is impossible to determine the reliability and validity of the study
from the information provided in the study. The authors of this study claimed that the
study is one of the first empirical evaluations of the effectiveness of a goal-based leader
coaching intervention (p. 388).
Although the current study is concerned with business coaching there are several
examples from the sports coaching literature other than Gallweys Inner Game books that
are applicable to executive coaching. The coach that led the Indianapolis Colts to a win in
the 2007 Super Bowl, Dungy, released a memoir that outlined the principles that helped
him become a successful coach (2008). Dungy outlined how Christian influences guided
his journey to adulthood. Dungy encouraged his players and his readers to focus on the
importance of how they play. The book is less about the writer, or even sports and
football, and more about the importance of sticking to ones principles above all else.
Dungy wrote a companion book also called Quiet Strength but with a different subtitle.
That books subtitle, mens bible study, described its purpose. In the text, Dungy posed
six questions that men should ask when choosing a direction. (Dungy, 2007). Here the
word men, is used in the gender specific sense, because the book uses scripture taken
from the bible to describe behaviors that males should embrace.
40
Cunningham proposed an alternative to the model traditionally used by coaches.
The coachs role was often based on models derived from the school of non-directive
counseling. The client (learner) is encouraged to talk about issues and to find their own
solutions to problems via a dialogue with the coach (2008, p. 5). Cunningham used the
analogy of sports and proposed a coachs role as one of telling a person how to improve
performance. Much of Cunninghams article pointed to work done earlier by Gallwey
where Gallwey was asked to work with customer service representatives at AT&T. By
largely ignoring the wishes of senior management and focusing on the needs of the
customer service representatives Gallwey assisted the operators to realize what they were
conveying with the tone of their voices. The operators began to see that by choosing to
express different qualities in their voices, they could have an impact on how they felt as
well as how customers felt (2000, p. 38). This alleviated issues of stress and boredom
that the customer service representatives were experiencing as issues that were
hampering their performance.
Gregory, Levy and Jeffers stated, Recent literature concerning executive
coaching consistently points out the need for a better conceptual understanding of the
process of coaching (2008, p. 42). The researchers proposed that, the sole purpose of
initiating a coaching intervention is to achieve observable and positive changes in
performance or behavior (p. 52). Gregory et al. cited earlier research by Feldman and
Laukau, and research by Joo that reported both the overwhelming lack of empirical
research and the ever-expanding gap between theory and practice (p. 42).
Feldman and Lankau noted that many coaching relationships begin with some
type of feedback experience, so that enhancing the usefulness of the 360-degree feedback
41
is an important foundation for successful coaching (2005, p. 843). Joo found that, there
has been little agreement about which executive coaching approach should be followed
and there has been wide disagreement about necessary or desired professional
qualifications for coaches (2005, p. 485).
In 2009, a study of the Microsoft peer-coaching program was completed.
Although attendees of the coaching program had positive attitudes about the integration
of technology and were enthusiastic about the peer-coaching concept, the issues
concerning resources to implement the coaching and integrate the information technology
into work environments were recurring themes. The study concluded, The program
design is in close alignment with the literature on exemplary peer coaching (Barron,
Dawson, & Yendol-Hoppey, abstract, 2009).
Adult Education Literature
The principles that guide effective learning in adults were found to be supporting
the coaching process, according to Stober and Grant (2006, p. 4). Cranton (2000) found
that adult learning is a relatively new area of scholarly examination; however, there are
many theories about adult education. The phenomenon is complex and defining one
theory, applicable to all situations, is difficult (Merriam & Caffarella, 1998). Knowles, a
researcher in the field of adult education, was sure that adults learned differently from
children (Smith, 2002). In an attempt to develop a learning theory specifically designed
to meet the needs of adult learning, he expanded on the theory of andragogy. Andragogy
was originally formulated by a German teacher, Alexander Kapp in 1833" (Nottingham
Andragogy Group, 1983, p. v.) and Knowles used it to "describe elements of Plato's
education theory (Smith, 1999, 1). Andragogy emphasizes that adults are self-directed
42
and allows adults to make decisions about the direction of their learning (Kearsley,
2004).
The contrasting term is pedagogy: The word pedagogy comes from the Greek
word paidagogos who was a slave who took children to and from school. Contemporary
use of the term pedagogy means the principles and methods of instruction (Lexico
Publishing Group, 2006). Pedagogic instruction tends to be standardized and organized
by subject. The difference between pedagogy and andragogy is that pedagogy has
predetermined goals and objectives, whereas, with andragogy, the learner participates in
the setting of goals.
Using the pedagogic theory of instruction, Conner found that teachers directed the
learning. Teachers assume responsibility for making decisions about what will be
learned, how it will be learned, and when it will be learned (2004, 2). This was teacherfocused learning. Conner suggested that the origins of the teacher-focused approach
originated with the Calvinists who believed wisdom was evil. They espoused that
adults direct, control, and ultimately limit, children's learning to keep them innocent
(4).
There is some acceptance of andragogy as the adult learning theory, but there
remains debate about whether this theory has helped or added to confusion about adult
learning (Wilson, 2005). Knowles outlined six principles about adult learners. These are:
(a) Adults need to know why they need to learn something before undertaking it.
(b) Adult learners self-concept is that of being responsible for their own
decisions.
(c) Adult experiences play a major role in contributing to learning outcomes.
43
(d) Adults become ready to learn those things they need to know and be able to do
to cope effectively with their real-life situations.
(e) Adults exhibit an orientation to learning and a motivation to learn when they
perceive that the learning will help them perform tasks or deal with problems that
they confront in their life situations.
(f) Adults are motivated to learn in response to external factors. (p 64)
From these factors, Knowles was able to derive five assumptions about adult
learners. Adult learners: (a) are increasingly self-directed, (b) have experiences that they
can use to help themselves and others around them learn, (c) are driven by real life
situations and motivation, (d) are motivated by internal incentives, and (e) are problem
centered (McCoy, 2006). Knowles later discovered that andragogic theory went beyond
helping only adults learn (Cross, 1981). Even though Knowles premise that adults
learned differently from children was largely unsupported, Knowles was able to derive
research findings that have driven modern learning.
Children, just like adults, learn more and are more engaged when they are
involved in deciding what they are going to learn. Of the six principles of adult learners,
experience is the only one that separates adult learners from children. Experience can
help with learning, but it can also be a hindrance because of expectations and an
unwillingness to try new things (Cranton, 2000). Knowles (1987) wrote, I believe that
andragogy means more than just helping adults learn; I believe that it means helping
human being [sic] learn, and it therefore [sic] has implications for the education of
children and youth (p. 38). The present study seeks to prove that coaching techniques
have traits that are shared with the practice of teaching adults. Because Knowles theories
44
of learning apply to adults and children, training in coaching techniques could benefit not
only educators who teach adults, but also those who teach children.
Two theorists who have contributed extensively to the educational literature on
goal-setting theory are Locke and Latham. These researchers chose to study the
phenomenon in a work setting and found that subordinates could set more specific goals
than their supervisors could (1983). Locke and Latham found that goal setting could
clarify expectations, increase productivity, and improve work quality. The process for
setting goals is to: (a) specify the general objective, (b) specify how performance will be
measured, (c) specify the target, (d) specify the time allotted to the task, (e) set priorities,
(f) determine difficulty levels, and (g) discuss coordination requirements (p. 40). These
techniques apply to coaching, andragogy, and adult learning.
Knowles created an instructor andragogic orientation measurement instrument
called the personal Human Resource Development (HRD) style inventory (1987). This
instrument was a self-assessment tool that helped instructors and trainers identify their
general orientation to adult learning. Its use in empirical studies of andragogy was limited
and there was only one study that incorporated the inventory into its design (Matthews,
1991). This instrument has yet to undergo rigorous validation testing; it tests for
andragogic orientation, not general adult learning orientation.
According to Conti, adult learners have multiple intelligences. Conti developed a
27-item indicator to identify Multiple Intelligences preferences of adult learners
(McClellan & Conti, 2008, p. 13). Contis study involved field-testing 874 community
college students and 168 college students. Factor analysis of that field-testing assisted in
the development of the instrument. Within the field-testing, Conti discovered two ways of
45
viewing teaching styles dominant in the context of adult learning (2004, p. 76). These
situations were either teacher-centered, where the student played a passive role and the
teachers actions drove what was going on in the classroom, or learner-centered where
the student took on a proactive role and the role of the teacher was as a facilitator. In
learner-centered environments, accountability was less formal and accomplished through
self-evaluation and instructor feedback (McCoy, 2006).
Distance-learning
Distance-learning is a departure from traditional methods of instruction. The
emergence of these programs has provided business, industry, and government with the
opportunity for staff to learn without entering a formal classroom. Figure 1 is a model of
the various forms of distance-learning available today.
46
Interaction
Face-to-face (limited)
Communication and contact

Certain distance-learning programs require
face-to-face meetings.
onsite instruction, residencies

Telephone
Students may communicate by phone with

mentors, coaches, or instructors
E-mail
Students use e-mail to communicate with

mentors, coaches, or instructors
Courseroom, chat rooms,

newsgroups, discussion boards,
blackboards, WebCT, TTVN
Students primarily communicate with

mentors, advisors, and instructors, primarily
interactively
Figure 1. Distance-learning Model.

Distance-learning programs in business, industry, and government are unique
because the medium can reach out to students or clients globally. Many students enrolled
in distance-learning programs never visit a traditional classroom. This change in learning
has provided people, who were once limited to the traditional classroom setting, with a
wide range of learning options (Uhlig, 2002). According to Beard, Harper, and Riley
(2002), distance-learning has had a significant impact on the delivery of instruction and
on student learning. This is critical for coaches, mentors, and instructors as they are the
driving force behind distance-learning programs.
Gerlich (2005) defined distance-learning as: (a) the use of technical media to unite
mentor, advisor, coach, or instructor and learner; (b) the provision for two-way
communication so the student may benefit from two-way conversation; and (c) the
absence of a learning group during the learning process. Cliffe (1996) defined learning at
a distance as teaching and learning where neither distance nor time separates the student
and the instructor. Distance-learning incorporates two modalities termed synchronous
47
delivery and asynchronous delivery. One teacher teaching one student is the definition of
synchronous delivery and one teacher teaching many students defines asynchronous
delivery. Coaching and mentoring are both synchronous delivery systems, one student to
one teacher, usually in a real-time classroom or through an electronic medium such as email, telephone, or Webcam. Asynchronous delivery in a learning environment means the
learner selects the content, the time, and the instructor for a class, and proceeds at his or
her own pace, similar to a student who registers for a class and then attends it.
Figure 1 classifies the modalities of distance-learning. Use of the telephone in
coaching has the longest history, but a gap in the scholarly literature indicates it has
attracted limited academic study. Rossett (2005) found strong anecdotal support from
nationally known coaches about their preference for the telephone, citing its superiority
over other technologies in building rapport and facilitating fluid conversation, but these
assertions about telephone coaching have attracted limited academic attention. Studies
have tended to concentrate on e-coaching. E-coaching is the term used to indicate
coaching by any educational technology based on Internet use.
The academic literature supports that distance-learning appears to be integrated
worldwide, with education, coaching, teaching, and learning in the broadest applications
of those terms. The following two paragraphs offer examples of this breadth. In 2001,
Wang and Wentlings study included the developing world in the use of online coaching.
The researchers found correlations between coaching and behavior change in those
coached even when distance to a cyber caf involved travel of over one hour. Muhlbacher
et al. (2003) developed an e-coaching system, termed WeLearn from the words webenvironment learning. It offered distance teaching/coaching/learning (DTCL) support
48
simultaneously in two languages as a response to their finding that contemporary learning
required a change in paradigms (p. 157). From study results, the researchers found that
the work of WeLearn students was more often graded in the higher ranges than the work
of traditional students with whom they were simultaneously compared and that the
former group of students were working more actively over a broader range of the topics
(p. 158).
In 2001, Tam looked at the classical role of the coach in improving motor
learning and reviewed the viability of motor learning using e-coaching. Tam concluded
that advances in technology were not being adequately exploited to improve motor skills
and that e-coaching had not progressed to the level of distance-learning in general
education (p. 5). In 2001, in a more traditional study related to education, Ally and Fahy
tested graduate students using standard measures of learning styles. They correlated these
learning styles with the support necessary to students in a distance-learning environment
and concluded that different learning styles required different support strategies. They
suggested improved retention might result from application of these findings to students
in a distance-learning environment.
Distance-learning programs accommodate the nontraditional student and are
proliferating in business, industry, and government (Greengard, 1998). Reports have
estimated that, by the year 2025, there will be 30 to 80 million distance-learning students
in business, industry, government, and the general population. Student and instructor
interaction in distance-learning occurs primarily in virtual classrooms or interactions by
telephone or on the Internet, Web sites, and newsgroups, all in nontraditional settings. In
49
contrast, face-to-face student and instructor interaction occurs primarily in the traditional
setting (Greengard).
In 1998, Greengard predicted that the distance-learning market would exceed
$1.5 billion by 2000: The market has exceeded that figure. The growing prominence of
distance-learning among academic institutions, industry, training establishments,
governments, and international organizations is attributed to its associated benefits. For
instance, corporations and academic institutions cite cost effectiveness, resource
maximization, increased enrollment, revenue enhancement, and competitive edge as
reasons for promoting distance-learning (Byrne, 1995).
The practice of distance education is growing in popularity (Byrne, 1995);
however, literature pertaining to instructor perceptions about the quality and effectiveness
of distance-learning is not abundant. Restauri (2004) explained that many new
instructors, mentors, coaches or advisors in distance-learning are unaware of the
difficulty and complexity of the many tasks that lie before them. Among contributing
factors were: (a) the amplified quality and usage of the requisite technologies, (b) a
lessening traditional market combined with an expanding nontraditional market, (c)
problems of access to higher education by students, and (d) a growing demand for postbaccalaureate education and skills learning by business, industry, and government
(Restauri).
Although these factors play a central role in the expansion of distance-learning
programs, there is limited research on the impact of the programs on instructors or their
perceptions about distance-learning. Few researchers have focused on how distancelearning has altered teaching methods, such as the ability to reach out effectively to
50
learners with various teaching/learning styles. The transition from overhead projector and
chalkboard to a virtual environment involves new ways of thinking and teaching.
Instructors, mentors, and coaches have little research to turn to as they undertake the
challenge of teaching in a virtual world, and there is a specific lack of research pertaining
to educational practices in the field of executive coaching.
Conclusion
This chapter discussed the current and historical literature that is available on the
subject of coaching. In order to develop a foundational research base, it is critical to
garner solid quantitative and qualitative research to advance the understanding of the
coaching process and coaching effectiveness while providing rich details about the
phenomenon (Marshall, 2006, p. 27). Coaching is a student-focused activity. Goal
setting and accountability are the foundations of coaching (Downey, 2003). It could very
well be that the lack of information available on coaching (Kilburg, 1996) in the context
of educational leadership (Coggins, 2005) has led to an environment that fails to account
for student needs and adheres to rigid, one-size-fits-all standards (McKenzie, 2003). It is
possible to implement accountability without these rigid guidelines. This study attempted
to fill that omission and related this information to the current environment.
Summary
Coaching presents an alternative to the traditional teaching model. Students work
harder and learn more when they are learning what they want to learn (Knowles, 2005).
When students explore their own strengths and weakness they can focus on real learning
and building on the talents that they already have (McKenzie, 2003). Chapter 3 will
51
describe the methodologies and instrumentation of the study, analysis of the data, role of
the researcher, ethical considerations, and validity and reliability of the data.
52
CHAPTER 3: METHOD
phenomenon in a distance-learning environment. The following chapter presents a
summary of the selection of the phenomenological study method in lieu of other
methodologies. The appropriateness of the research design is discussed as well as the
methodology for this phenomenological study. Specifically, the following will be
discussed: (a) setting, (b) participants, (c) the phenomenological study design that was
employed, (d) how data was analyzed, and (e) issues of validity and ethical assurances.
An overview of the effectiveness of the methodology in retrieving the information sought
and the manner in which it was analyzed to reveal meaningful results will be presented.
The discussion will encompass the methods used to collect data for this study of coaching
in the context of educational leadership, the research method, design appropriateness,
population, sampling, data collection, validity, data analysis, organization, and clarity,
and concludes with a chapter summary.
Research Method
There have been numerous previous attempts to study executive coaching using
quantitative methodologies and large samples (Bowles, Cunningham, & De La Rosa,
2007; Grant & OHara, 2006; Law, Ireland, & Hussain, 2006; Liljenstrand & Nebeker,
2008). Many of these studies point out the quantitative method they used was not able to
capture all aspects of the coaching interaction and suggested further research using other
methodologies (Liljenstrand & Nebeker, 2008, p. 62). Goode recommended that further
research be conducted to access the extent executive coaches understand and employ
53
principles of adult learning in their practice (Goode, 2007, p. 172). Specifically, in
Goodes paper, it was recommended that further research be conducted in the area of
telephone-based coaching (p. 171).
Qualitative research methods describe social reality and find cultural meaning
(Neuman, 2003). Neuman suggested qualitative methods are preferable for studies in
which a researcher is involved. According to Leedy and Ormrod (2005), qualitative
research should be used when the purpose of the research is to build a theory, explore,
interpret, describe, or explain a phenomenon.
Because the purpose of the research was to gain a better understanding of the
coaching at WCC, the qualitative research method was chosen; however, qualitative
research has been criticized and regarded with suspicion and hostility because its general
characteristics remain poorly understood, and, consequently, its potential remains
underdeveloped, according to Myers (2000, 9). According to Leedy and Ormrod, To
answer some research questions, we cannot skim across the surface. We must dig deep to
get a complete understanding of the phenomenon we are studying (2005, p. 133).
Quantitative research focuses on measurable objective facts and variables. Leedy
and Ormrod (2005) posited that quantitative research is a method of revealing the
correlation of two or more events (Leedy & Ormrod, 2005). Creswell stated that
quantitative research is the best method to explain a hypothesis or reasoning (Creswell,
2005). In the present study, a quantitative approach was found invalid because the study
sought to observe the culture of coaching and the interactive processes and events
involved in the coaching practices of business coaches at WCC. The ultimate goal was to
improve understanding of coaching and adult learning practices at the firm.
54
Qualitative research, which is sometimes termed pre-experimental, is criticized
for its lack of generalizability; however, it is making valuable contributions to
professional education literature, despite resistance (Myers, 2000). Generalizability is the
degree the findings can be generalized to an entire population (Myers, 2000).
Phenomenology depends on the use of lengthy interviews with a carefully selected
sample (Leedy & Ormrod, 2005, p. 139). Numerous forms of data are collected and
examined from various angles to construct a rich and meaningful picture of a complex,
multifaceted situation. (Leedy & Ormrod, p. 133). By looking at multiple perspectives
on the same situation, the researcher can make generalizations of what something is like
from an insiders perspective (Leedy & Ormrod, p. 139).
The most important factor in choosing a research design is the research problem
(Creswell, 2005, p. 54). The problem in this study describes a situation where the
variables and patterns are unknown. The quantitative method is inappropriate for research
where there are unknown variables and patterns (Creswell, p. 54). The qualitative method
was chosen because the present study sought to obtain a deeper understanding
(Creswell, p. 54) of a specific group of people.
Appropriateness of Design
A qualitative phenomenological research study was an appropriate approach to
centered on the lived experiences of coaches in an online-learning environment as a
phenomenon (Creswell, 2002). The objective of this study was to identify the behavior of
coaches in a distance-learning environment. The term phenomenological applies to a
persons perception of the meaning of an event, as opposed to the event as it happens
55
external to the person (Leedy & Ormrod, 2005). Phenomenology relies on a participants
perspective to obtain knowledge concerning a situation.
Kaam design and used semi-structured interviews with a sample of 20 coaches at WCC
(1994, p. 120). Data was obtained and analyzed from individual, in person, audio taped
interviews with those coaches. A professional transcriptionist transcribed these semistructured interviews. From those interviews and from individual textural-structural
descriptions derived from those interviews, the study attempted to derive a description of
the essence and meanings of the coaching experience representing the group as a whole
(Moustakas, p. 120).
Rubin and Rubin (1995) described two different types of interviews. Cultural
interviews probe for the special and shared meanings that members of a group develop
and the kinds of activities the group does and why. Topical interviews seek out
explanations of events and descriptions of processes where the researcher is looking for
more detailed information (p. 29). Rubin and Rubin (1995) point out that in a topical
interview, the researcher plays a more active role in directing the questioning and may
need to develop a list of specific questions. This research primarily comprised topical
interviews, with some cultural aspects emerging. As Rubin and Rubin explained, the
styles are often mixed in a single interview.
Interviews are a common research method in the social sciences (Gall et al., 2003;
Hatch, 2002; Polit & Beck, 2004). Robson (2002) detailed three types of interviews: (a)
fully structured, (b) semi-structured, and (c) unstructured. This study used a semistructured design. The process of data collection took place using audio taped, face-to-
56
face, semi-structured interviews widely used in qualitative studies (Hamilton & Bowers,
2006; Smith, Ferguson, & Caris, 2002). The actual interview sessions lasted an average
of one hour. Participants were assured of anonymity in any written reports. Their
responses were, and will continue to be, treated with the strictest confidentiality.
Due to the nature of the research questions and the importance of assessing the
flexible context, the interviews were designed to ask respondents to answer open-ended
questions about their experience of distance coaching. The questions were based on the
review of the literature and the identified gap in the knowledge. The questions, shown in
the following section, were designed to elicit information about what the experience is
like for coaches who work at a distance, what knowledge, skills, and attributes they think
are important when coaching, what differences they perceive between face-to-face
coaching and distance coaching, what strategies they use to facilitate learner engagement,
and what ethical and legal issues they face when coaching at a distance.
Research Questions
This qualitative phenomenological study explored the characteristics and behaviors
of business coaches in a distance-learning environment. The study provided new
knowledge and insight into the practices of business coaches in a distance-learning
environment as they worked to help clients achieve peak performance. The study
encompassed the following questions:
1. What practices, characteristics, and behaviors are present in a business-coaching
environment?
2. What practices, characteristics, and behaviors are present in a distance-learning
business-coaching environment?
57
3. Are business coaches aware of and do they use adult teaching methods?
Setting and Population
All the participants in the study were in the San Diego/Carlsbad area of
California. The 2000 U.S. Census Bureau reported that the population in Carlsbad,
California numbered 90,217, 86.55% of which are White, and the medium family income
was $107,016. It is one of the most expensive coastal communities in San Diego County.
The city has two school districts that include two high schools and four elementary
schools. The population for this study included a sample of 20 volunteers from the firm
identified in Chapter 1. Appendix B documents permission to use this facility.
At the time the interviews were conducted, the business coaching firm that is the
subject of this case study employed 33 coaches (Wolfe, personal communication, 2008?).
The study sample of 20 coaches was drawn from this population. Appendix B documents
permission to use the premises (Polzin, personal communication, 2008). Approval for the
use of human subjects was obtained from the University of Phoenix Institutional Review
Board prior to commencement of the study (see Appendix A). In addition, permission to
use the premises of the coaching firm for interviews was obtained (see Appendix B).
Informed Consent
Informed consent is the principle that potential participants should be given
adequate and accurate information about a study before they are asked to agree to
participate, and that they consent to participate (Udis-Kessler, 2007, 63). Introductory
Letters (Appendix C) were mailed to prospective Participants with a link to the Informed
Consent Form (see Appendix D). Each participant in the present study was provided
with, and asked to read and sign, two copies of the Informed Consent Form (see
58
Appendix D). Participants in the study were asked to keep one copy and the other is
being held by the researcher. The researcher reviewed the Informed Consent Form with
each participant prior to every interview in the study.
Sampling Frame
This study used a sample of 20 coaches of the 33 coaches that worked at WCC
who volunteered to participate. The entire population of coaches in the firm was entered
into a database. A computer generated random number was assigned to each coach. The
subjects of the study were chosen from those who responded positively using that random
number. Because of the requirements of informed consent, subjects who were unwilling
to participate in the study were excluded from the study. The number of participants in
this study was dependent on the phenomenon. Participants were interviewed until
answers to the research questions were obtained. A specific interview protocol was used
to ensure uniformity of the interviews (see Appendix E). A short demographic
questionnaire (see Appendix F) was used to develop a picture of the respondents, and to
ensure that no one group of individuals was over represented.
Confidentiality
According to current guidelines, researchers have an obligation to identify for
participants exactly what is meant by anonymity and confidentiality in advance of the
research taking place (Lancaster University, n.d.). Anonymity refers to concealing the
identity of every participant in all documents related to the research, and confidentiality is
concerned with who has the right of access to the data that is provided by the participant
(Lancaster University). Neuman suggests the use of codes to ensure that the connection
between the information and the subjects identity not become public (Neuman, 2003).
59
All responses to the survey will remain anonymous to all but the researcher. Only
the researcher will have access to the data collected from the participants and used for
data analysis. Although results will not necessarily contain sensitive information,
participants responses will be kept confidential. In addition, the researcher will assign a
random numeric identifier to each participant to ensure the anonymity of responses
throughout the research process. Finally, the initial contact letter clearly indicates that the
researcher will maintain participant anonymity indefinitely. Data will be retained for 3
years and subsequently shredded.
Cozby (2004) stated, Ethical concerns are paramount when planning,
conducting, and evaluating research (p. 35). This study complied with the University of
Phoenixs ethical guidelines and presented minimal risk to participants, as it contained
neither experimental treatment of the participants nor exposure to physical or
psychological harm. The participants were all employees of the WCC organization that is
the subject of this study. Great care was taken to ensure that the participants fully
understood the nature of the study and the fact that participation was voluntary. No
sanctions were applied if participants declined or withdrew from the study. No
information regarding participation of any individual was communicated to the WCC
firm. Confidentiality of data was maintained at all times and identification of participants
was not available during the study and will not be available after the fact. These
conditions were communicated to all participants at the start of the survey.
60
Data Collection
WCC coaches its clients by telephone, with occasional e-mail and
teleconferencing. This allows coaches to move quickly from one client to another. The
calls are called coaching calls. This study used taped interviews to study the practices of
coaches at the subject WCC. The researcher reviewed the letter of informed consent with
each participant prior to every interview in the study. Observational techniques are
methods that allow an individual or individuals to gather firsthand data on programs,
processes, or behaviors being studied (Mahoney, 1999, p. 53). Observations were used
at both the formative and summative phases of evaluation. The most fundamental
distinction between various observational strategies is the extent to which the observer
will be a participant in the setting being studied (National Science Foundation, p. 3-3).
This study attempted to fulfill Mahoneys (1999) view that the participant observer is
fully engaged in experiencing the project setting while striving to understand that setting
through personal experience, observations, and interactions and discussions with other
participants (Quinn Patton, 2002, p. 265).
Mahoney (1999) believed that interviews provide a data collection opportunity by
which all the participants in a project can be identified. Two major types of interviews are
possible: A structured interview collects data, which is based on a detailed questionnaire,
while an in-depth interview provides an opportunity for the interviewer that is not based
on a rigid form (Mahoney).
61
This study used some measure of structure, a protocol; however, participants were
encouraged to elaborate, in their own words, about their experiences as a coach. This
allowed the researcher to identify the meaning of the experience from the respondents
point of view (Mahoney). The researcher audiotaped the interviews.
The following questions were used as a guide for interviews with study
participants.
1. Coaching
a. What is your definition of coaching?
b. How do you feel coaching differs from teaching?
c. How would you define business coaching?
d. What preparation did you have to be a business coach? (Goode, 2007, p.
190)
e. Describe the coaching process.
f. Tell me about your experiences coaching.
g. Tell me about things that you have done as a coach that work well.
h. Tell me about things that you have done as a coach that do not work well.
2. Adult teaching concepts
a. What formal or coach specific education did you receive to prepare you
to be an executive coach? (Goode, 2007, p. 190)
b. Did you have other, less formal training?
c. Could you give me examples of how this training prepared you for this job
as an executive coach? (Goode, 2007, p. 190)
d. Tell me about how you get your coaching clients involved in goal setting.
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e. What do you do if clients are sometimes unwilling or unable to set goals?
f. How are results affected by a clients success in goal setting?
g. If have to set goals for your clients, how do determine the goals?
h. Other than goal setting are there any techniques that you use regularly to
teach your clients?
i. Your situation involves distance-learning: Describe how that differs from
in person coaching.
j. Are there things that are improved because of the distance-learning
model?
k. Are there things that suffer because of the distance-learning model?
3. Distance-learning
a. What would you do differently if you had face-to-face coaching of clients?
b. Are there things that would be better done in an in-person environment?
c. Are there special techniques you use because you are coaching over the
phone and via e-mail or the Internet?
Please state what a typical coaching call is like.
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The interview protocol was used to maintain internal consistency between and
among interviews (see Appendix E). Just as populations used in a study can be
determined by opportunistic sampling, this script was used as a guide. New leads were
pursued during fieldwork. The script was anticipated to develop new themes as
unexpected threads were found in the course of the study.
Data Analysis
This study used qualitative data analysis. Qualitative models of data analysis
provide ways to discern, examine, compare and contrast, and interpret meaningful
patterns or themes (Berkowitz, 1997). Qualitative data analysis utilizes fewer universal
rules and standardized procedures than quantitative analysis. Researchers who question
whether the analysis is sufficiently rigorous (Berkowitz) criticize this absence of
standardization.
In qualitative analysis, the subjects of researcher bias and subjectivity are
common criticisms of rigorous analysis. Qualitative research draws on the experience of
the researcher and depends on the researchers ability to draw conclusions from wordy
data based on the researchers perspective. Qualitative researchers cite instances of
change in the data that show new insights (Berkowitz).
Quantitative researchers explain exceptional or unusual cases. Even with the
element of standardization that is present in quantitative research, the research may still
contain bias because the researchers are approaching a study with the premise of using
the data to support a predefined theory. Researcher expectancies happen when researcher
actions, or reactions, change participant responses. The effect may be attributed to the
64
program, when it is equally likely to be related to the researchers action or reaction
(Colosi, 1997).
No single, accepted approach to analyzing qualitative data exists, but Creswell
(2005) does offer a detailed six-step process that may be used to interpret qualitative data.
The process Creswell suggests is an iterative process that means that, as each step is
completed, the researcher cycles back and forth between data collection and analysis.
Step 1 in this process is to organize and prepare the data for analysis. At an early stage in
qualitative analysis, the researcher will organize data into file folders, index cards, or
computer files (Creswell, 2005).
Step 2 is to prepare the data for analysis. Researchers need to convert these words
to a computer file for analysis. Alternatively, the researcher might listen to the tapes or
read field notes to begin the process of analysis (Creswell, 2005). Ideally, all interviews
and observational notes would be transcribed; however, this is not necessary.
Step 3 is to analyze the data by hand or by computer. The hand analysis of
qualitative data causes the researcher to read the data, mark it by hand, and divide it into
parts (Creswell, 2005). If the database is large, or if there is adequate access to a
qualitative data analysis program, or if the time to analyze the data is limited, a computer
analysis of qualitative data may be the most efficient option. A computer analysis of
qualitative data provides that the researcher use a qualitative computer program to
facilitate the process of storing, analyzing, and sorting the data (Creswell). NVivo 8
software was used to analyze the qualitative data collected in this study.
Data analysis occurred after the data collection was completed. This began with
an exploration of the data. A preliminary exploratory analysis in qualitative research
65
consists of exploring the data to obtain a general sense of the data, recording ideas,
thinking about the organization of the data, and considering whether more data is needed
(Creswell, 2005).
Validity and Reliability
Reliability is the consistency of a measurement, or the degree to which an
instrument measures the same way each time it is used, under the same condition, with
the same subjects (Colosi, 1997, 1). Repeatability can be estimated by testing and
retesting, and through internal consistency. Considering testing error, as people take a test
on a certain subject they learn more about the subject. This makes it impossible to
measure reliability: It can only be estimated. Validity is the strength of the conclusions,
inferences or propositions (Colosi). Internal validity is the presence of a causal
relationship between an action and an observed outcome. External validity refers to our
ability to generalize the results of our study to other settings (Colosi, 8).
Randomization, the specific use of a methodology, statistical analyses that match
the data collected, and the question the researcher is trying to answer, are the devices
used to achieve validity, both internal and external (Huitt, Hummel, & Kaeck, 1999, 6).
Because qualitative research does not concern itself with cause and effect, internal
validity is not a factor. The study used a study design that has been proven appropriate
(Goode, 2007) and promised to have generalizeable results, thus external validity was
obtained. These generalizeable results may be used to develop theories about wider
populations for further quantitative study.
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Summary
This chapter discussed which research methods were considered, reasons why the
method selected was better suited for this study than the others under consideration, and
the method used to conduct this study of coaching in the context of educational
leadership. Design appropriateness, population, sampling, data collection, validity, data
analysis, organization, and clarity were also discussed. The chapter covered the use of
computer analysis of qualitative data to facilitate the process of storing, analyzing, and
sorting the data (Creswell). Because of the phenomenological nature of the study, the
study is both generalizeable and absent of the bias that one finds in many quantitative
studies. Chapter 4 reports the results of the study in detail. Interviews were audiotaped,
transcribed and coded. Transcriptions of the interviews are included in Appendix G and
NVivo 8 software used to analyze the qualitative data collected in this study.
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CHAPTER 4: RESULTS
phenomenon in a distance-learning environment. The study was designed to produce
results that describe how coaches interact with clients, in a distance-learning
environment, to assist their clients to achieve peak performance. Participants in the study
had an opportunity to provide their experiences and perceptions of their work in an
executive coaching firm that uses a distance-learning model. Additionally, participants
were asked to consider whether their practices could be improved by a face-to-face
environment and asked how this might change their methods.
A qualitative phenomenological research study was an appropriate approach to
centered on the lived experiences of coaches in an online-learning environment as a
phenomenon (Creswell, 2002). The objective of this study was to identify the behavior of
coaches in a distance-learning environment. The term phenomenological applies to a
persons perception of the meaning of an event, as opposed to the event as it happens
external to the person (Leedy & Ormrod, 2005). Phenomenology relies on a participants
perspective to obtain knowledge concerning a situation.
Kaam design and used semi-structured interviews with a sample of 20 coaches at firm
from California (1994, p. 120). Data were obtained and analyzed from individual, in
person, audio taped interviews with those coaches. A professional transcriptionist
transcribed these semi-structured interviews. From those interviews and from individual
68
textural-structural descriptions derived from those interviews, the study attempted to
derive a description of the essence and meanings of the coaching experience representing
the group as a whole (Moustakas, p. 120).
Data Collection
The research participants were aware that the basis of their selection to participate
in the research study was employment at the corporation that is the subject of the study.
At the time the interviews were conducted, the business-coaching firm that is the subject
of this case study employed 33 coaches (Wolfe, personal communication, 2008). The
population for this study included a sample of 20 volunteers from that firm. Introductory
Letters (see Appendix C) were mailed to prospective Participants with a link to the
Informed Consent Form (see Appendix D). Each participant in the present study was
provided the Informed Consent Form. The researcher reviewed the Informed Consent
Form with each participant prior to every interview in the study. After completing the
interview, the participants provided demographic background information. Appendix F
contains a list of the demographic questions.
Problem Statement Review
Marshall (2006) discovered that despite coachings rapid rise in popularity, the
empirical research on coaching is just now beginning to emerge as the field continues to
grapple with the issues of competencies, standards of practice, and outcome measures
(p. 26). Although there has been some development and use of theories and methods for
executive coaching, the scientific basis for these applications is extremely limited
(Kilburg, 1996, p. 136). Goode undertook a qualitative study at Columbia University
69
which integrated adult learning concepts and coaching and recommended further study in
the subject of distance coaching (2007, p.171).
The general problem is that coaches in a distance-learning environment have
varied backgrounds and there are few standards for coaching practice. Professional
coaches are not certified, but drawn from applicants with a wide range of executive
experience (Liljenstrand & Nebeker, 2008, p. 58). The specific problem of the study was
to identify and explain the behaviors, knowledge, and best practices of business coaches
in a distance-learning environment. Facilitators might use distance-learning coaching to
improve the learning environment of online classrooms, support the use of coaching
techniques in an online classroom, promote the successful facilitation of the online
classrooms, and prepare the traditional face-to-face teacher for the role of coach in a
distance-learning environment. This qualitative phenomenological study identified
factors contributing to effective facilitation and best practices by interviewing 20 coaches
at a coaching firm in the western United States using a distance-learning environment.
Research Findings
The second phase of the research involved organizing, analyzing, and
synthesizing the data from the interviews into clusters and themes based on invariant
constituents emerging from the data collection. Participants were interviewed, textual
data collected, and analyzed using the seven-step modified van Kaam method
(Moustakas, 1994) to identify themes that developed from the data in conjunction with
the NVivo software.
Step 1, organization of data for analysis: the researcher organized data into file
folders, index cards, or computer files. Step 2, preparation of data for analysis: the
70
researcher converted the interview to a computer file for analysis. All interviews were
transcribed. Step 3, analyzing the data with the use of NVivo software.
Thematic labels were formed from clusters of the invariant constituents. Specific
themes emerged from the thematic labels. The ten thematic labels critical to the central
questions are: (1) characteristics of business-coaching environments; (2) effective
practices in a business-coaching environment; (3) ineffective practices in a businesscoaching environment; (4) behaviors present in an effective executive coach; (5) positive
characteristics of a distance-learning model; (6) disadvantages of a distance-learning
model; (7) special techniques or practices used in distance-learning; (8) adult teaching
methods in involving clients with goal setting; (9) adult teaching methods of determining
goals; and (10) other effective adult teaching methods aside from goal setting. The
number of participants offering the experience assists in illustrating the meaning,
horizons, and the essence of the lived experience.
Theme 1:
A focus on the implementation and development of a business plan is the main
characteristic of a business coaching environment.
The first thematic label, characteristics of business-coaching environments, was
determined from 10 invariant constituents (see Table 1). Only the invariant constituents
that received more than three responses are noted in the text. The constituents that
received three or fewer responses are listed in the table. The invariant constituents central
to the theme are as follows: (a) Implementing and developing of business plan (9 out of
20 participants, 45%), and (b) Achieving business goals (7 out of 20 participants, 35%).
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Table 1
Thematic Category 1
Characteristics of Business Coaching Environments
Invariant constituents
Implementing and developing business plans
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
9
Percentage of
participants to offer
this experience
45%
Achieving business goals
35%
Focusing on business and financial aspect
15%
10%
Having structure
5%
Offering unique experiences every day
5%
Focusing on accountability
5%
Focusing on maximizing the profits
5%
5%
5%
Focusing on technique and fundamentals of

business
Creating balance between personal and business

lives
Coming alongside clients to attain level of
success
The first theme to emerge from the aggregation of the invariant constituents is
that the participants felt that the central characteristic of business coaching environments
is its focus on implementation and development of their clients business plans.
Participant #3 believed that the main objective of a business coach is teaching,
instructing, supporting, guiding, motivating people to build a thriving productive business
72
that supports them and their lives. Participant #15 explained that the process of going
through a business plans starts at exploring the business owners current state-of-theunion of where their business is at and where they need to move forward into the
direction they want to take their business. Participant #19 echoed that there is a need to
coach some of the clients on how to go through the process since a lot of them havent
done that before. Participant #1 emphasized the presence of obstacles in the clients
businesses and the tendency to focus on those things, stating, its a business focus so
you only tend to focus on those other things as they show up in somebodys life as an
obstacle. In other words, if its getting in the way of actually helping implement and
develop a business plan and follow through on that business plan.
Participant #5 believed that the main goal for business coaching is to give small
business owners structure. The participant explained that business coaching could be
personalized to each business depending on its needs and characteristics. The participant
explained, We take that structured model and again tailor it to each person because they
can only move at the speed with which they are naturally equipped to do. So we give
them the tools.
Participant #12 assumed that the clients are business-minded. The approach is
then to help the clients develop their plans using a business perspective. The participant
illustrated, So we help them with strategic planning, looking at the different elements of
business itself and their business specifically and helping to bring those two together so
that they are having not only a global perspective but a specific perspective on their
particular business and what they are trying to accomplish.
73
Another theme that emerges is that participants believed that the business
coaching environment focuses on helping the clients to achieve their goals. Participant #8
believed that in business coaching, the coaches focus on business goals as the primary
reason to work together. Participant #17 captured this characteristic of business
coaching when he stated, Business coaching to me is finding out what their goals are for
their business, learning what their business is all about, and its also taking a look at what
their job descriptions are in that business and then working with them focusing on the
main parts to make sure that what theyre doing in a weeks time or two-weeks time,
how much time is being spent on activities to make them get to that point.
Participant #11 noted that a client may have a variety of goals, however, as a
business coach, the focus is on the business goals only. The participant stated, it is still
helping people to achieve the best that they can to the goals that theyve set. If I sit down
and focus on their business goals, my main goal is to help them achieve those goals. Yes,
there are other goals in other parts of their life and Ill help them through that, but my
main focus is the business. Participant #9 echoed the belief when he said, we are
helping people achieve in their business as well as in their personal life, but most of the
emphasis is on their business." Participant #6 described the effective process of setting
and achieving goals as understanding the why, what you hope to achieve out of this,
breaking it down into manageable steps. Participant #8 believed, teaching,
encouraging, and instructing them on the attainment of those goals should follow.
74
Theme 2:
Business coaches believe that goal-related practices are the most effective practice
employed in business-coaching environments.
The second thematic label, effective practices in a business-coaching
environment, was determined from 13 invariant constituents (see Table 2). Only the
invariant constituents that received more than three responses are noted in the text. The
constituents that received three or fewer responses are listed in the table. The invariant
constituents central to the theme are (a) relating to goals (6 out of 20 participants, 30%);
(b) emphasizing the positive (5 out of 20 participants, 25%); (c) listening (4 out of 20
participants, 20%); (d) providing encouragement to the clients (4 out of 20 participants,
20%); and (e) transforming the clients to better individuals (4 out of 20 participants,
20%).
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Table 2
Thematic Category 2
Effective Practices in a Business Coaching Environment
Relating to goals
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
6
Percentage of
this experience
30%
Emphasizing the positive
25%
Listening
20%
Providing encouragement to clients
20%
Transforming the clients to better individuals
20%
Emphasizing accountability
15%
Asking more questions
10%
Following the progress of clients
10%
Putting things in perspective
10%
Addressing clients weaknesses
10%
Thinking outside the box
5%
Building rapport
5%
Giving more than what is expected
5%
The most significant and highly relevant theme emerging from the aggregation of
the invariant constituents illustrates that business coaches believe the most effective
practices employed in business-coaching environments are those that are relevant to the
goals of the clients. Participant #7 shared that he always starts with knowing what their
(clients) goals are and their expectations and where they want to grow. The participant
76
added, So whenever I get a new client, whether they are brand new to the business or
theyre coming from a different coach, I always start with, what are your goals? Whats
important to you? If you look back six months from now, what do you want to achieve
and get them to tell me where they want to go?
Participant #19 echoed the same practice as Participant #7 that the process starts
with identifying the clients goals, but added that obstacles should also be identified.
Once these are all identified, the coach acts as a guide only in figuring out the best course
of action. He explained, asking a lot of questions to identify whats important to them
and then asking some of the challenging questions like what has stopped them before and
whats worked before. The coaching process is me asking questions to help them find
their answers. I dont have their answers for them. Participant #5 applied a different
approach. He shared, I start with successes. I always go over at some point during the
call the action steps from the time before; whether they got it done or whether they didnt
get done; what got in the way.
Participant #2 believed that there are different factors to consider when guiding
the clients through their goals. He said, a lot is based on their personality, their situation,
their beliefs in what they do, how passionate they are, you know, what inhibits them from
excelling and all that kind of stuff. Participant #8 added that, then the coach puts to
work their skills, their abilities to get them to that point.
A further theme that emerged was that participants felt that that it is effective to
emphasize positive things that motivate clients. Participant #12 shared an anecdote on
the reason why he highlights the positive aspects. He narrated, So I try to get them
focused on the positive, like what theyve accomplished. When I first started here, most
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of the time I would get a client on the phone who would say, I didnt do anything this
week I didnt want to call you. I didnt want to talk to you. Well by the end of the
call, we had established that they had done this and this and this, and I try to get them to
focus on, Hey, thats something to celebrate. You did do these things and thats where
were going with this, trying to get you in the mind set of working by referral. So it
wasnt a total loss like you were telling me at the beginning of the call. Thats why first
off I try to get them to talk about what theyve accomplished. It may not be what theyve
written down as their action steps, but its something that they need to celebrate.
Participant #7 believed that positive things assist the clients to progress. He
explained, because for me I have a lot of momentum in my profile and I want people to
feel like theyre moving forward. It doesnt do them any good to complain. Participant
#15 viewed the emphasis on positive aspects as the key to the success of their clients. The
participant stated, And what a coach does is they draw out the peoples potential in
places, people, things, whatever. I dont see negativity. I see the positive. And if you
can draw that out of a person, then youre winning. Participant #5 shared the same belief
when he stated, I get my most success from acknowledging my clients really pointing
out what theyve done well and whats working for them. Participant #14 believed that
the positive along with the negative can be a source of learning for the client. He stated,
I always try to stay focused on the positive and you know, taking any negatives they
give me of, what can we learn from it?
The business coaches believed that listening to clients contributes to effective
practice. Participant #18 believed in the value of listening when he stated, Listening is
the key. People need to be heard. Participant #9 stressed the importance of listening to
78
clients in order to be able to address the current situation. The participant stated, I just
know I take each person and I sit down with them and I listen. All right, thats one of the
things I do very well. I listen carefully to what people are telling me and I dont
generally have a difficult time understanding what their problem is or what their
roadblocks are or where they shoot themselves in the foot.
The participants also reported providing encouragement to their clients.
Participant #15 encouraged his clients with small gestures and made them feel important.
I send out a daily motivation to all my clients, Monday through Friday. I work the
system that we teach So to me, working the system that we teach, sending out the
notes, doing the check-in calls, you have to let them know that you really do care. And I
do really care. But you cant just say you care and not follow through with activity.
Participant #10 thought that clients should believe in their own strengths. He gave
this advice to his clients, Number one is to lean into your strengths, help you lean into
what you do well, and to help you identify why you have fears because they will hold you
back from your success. Participant #11 also believed in empower(ing) them to do their
own.
Participants also believed in transforming aspects of clients, usually their
attitudes, so that they would be able to accomplish more. Participants #16 and #17 both
believed that they should make the clients think independently for themselves. Participant
#17 observed that new clients usually became dependent on their coaches and that it was
important to watch for this and limit the tendency. He stated, when you first start
coaching somebody, theyre really kind of dependent on you to walk them through, i.e.,
heres how you get from A to B, then B to C. But after they start to learn the
79
fundamentals, in order for them to grow, you want a client to become less dependent on
you for guidance from step to step. He believed that it is important for clients to learn to
be independent because they get creative on their own; they learn to adapt. And when
they start to do that, they see growth a lot faster and they can move to the next step.
Participant #17 emphasized that clients should learn to be independent, since the
activities performed are for the clients themselves. He stated, Because, honestly, it cant
be my agenda. It has to be their agenda. I cant force them where to go or tell them
where to go. I mean you can tell them when theyre off.
Participant #20 observed that a lot of clients are reactive and thus makes it a point
to encourage proactive behaviors. He shared, So I would say, you know, a lot of the
issues are in regards to time management and so for people who are very reactive in their
business, I usually try to transform them into being proactive instead of reactive.
Participant #19 shared that it is effective practice to assist clients to change their
thought patterns in order to overcome fears, specifically the fear of making calls. The
participant shared an interesting anecdote on how he does this. So I set people up and
they dont know that Im setting them up. One of the things that I do is I say, Bring
your list of the people weve been trying to reach. I need to know who they are and what
youre relationship is like with them. So bring their names and phone numbers, all of
that, and were going to talk tomorrow. Okay, great. We have all the phone numbers,
okay what are their names? So I start writing down their names. Okay, youve blocked
how much time for our appointment? Thirty minutes. Perfect. What I want you to do is,
Im going to hang up now and youre going to call the first five people on the list and if
you get through them and none of those people are home youre going to keep calling
80
until five minutes before the hour. Then Ill call you back to find out how your calls
went. And people that have terror, because our clients are truly terrified of phone calls,
they go, Wait, ah, ah, but, but. I say, Go, your clock starts now. Youve got the
phone numbers, now go. And I hang up. And I say, if youre still on the phone when I
call, do not hang up on the person youre speaking to. Enjoy the moment and Ill talk to
you the following day and Ill follow up with an e-mail. Thats one of the things that
help people break through their terror. They thank me.
Theme 3:
Business coaches feel that being too insensitive to clients and being too involved in their
personal lives are the most ineffective practice employed in business-coaching
environments.
The third thematic label, ineffective practices in a business-coaching
environment, was determined from 12 invariant constituents (see Table 3). Only the
invariant constituents that received more than three responses are noted in the text. The
constituents central to the theme are (a) being insensitive to clients (5 out of 20
participants, 25%); and (b) being too involved in clients personal lives (4 out of 20
participants, 20%).
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Table 3
Thematic Category 3
Ineffective Practices in a Business Coaching Environment
Being insensitive to clients
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
5
Percentage of
this experience
25%
Being too involved in clients personal lives
20%
Overdoing the responsibilities
15%
Being too strict or rigid
15%
Not understanding clients profiles
10%
Creating dependency on coaches and methods
10%
Being too friendly
10%
Giving information from unknown source
5%
Making assumptions and judgments
5%
Lacking communication with clients
5%
5%
5%
Feeling nervous and uncomfortable with

clients
Missing calls
the invariant constituents illustrates that business coaches believed that the most
ineffective practice employed in business-coaching environments is being insensitive to
the clients. The participants shared different forms of being insensitive to their clients,
including, being hurtful to the clients, being unkind as Participant #5 said. But the
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common thing with their accounts was this had a negative effect on their relationships
with their clients. The participants saw these as learning experience for them as coaches.
Participant #20 shared his account of when he was discourteous to his clients by not
being mindful of their cultural backgrounds. He shared, I wasnt sensitive to his culture
and how private they are. So that really turned him off and he ended up transferring to
somebody else. So that was one of my big ah ha moments when I realized that I had to
make sure I was meeting people where they were, not just where I was coming from.
Participant #1 shared his experience of becoming too strict with his clients and
actually forgetting their needs. He recalled, I tried to become real strict and rigid as far
as following my format instead of listening to my people and trying to meet them where
their needs were. I found out that that doesnt work well at all and I lost probably about
20% of my client base. It was a good lesson.
Participant #4 felt that pushing clients to disclose when they are not ready can
have adverse effects similar to those he experienced. He recounted, They (clients) quit
really, really quickly and they always quit through Client Care. So they actually dont
want to talk to you then. Its almost like theyve said too much and theyve gotten
embarrassed and now theyve gotten themselves off track so they pull back.
Participant #18 learned from his experience that being frank is not always a good
technique and can lead to insensitivity to clients. Well, what I learned is something that
doesnt work well and the flip side of that is hitting people between the eyes with truth
when you dont have the kind of relationship where theyll receive it from you. So, you
know, dont assume that people will receive what you have to say. There needs to be a
way of delivering the truth with being sensitive to whom they are.
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A number of participants also observed a detrimental effect from being too
intrusive in the lives of clients. Participant #8 pointed out what he believes is a
characteristic of the system that makes it possible for clients and coaches to interact and
have closer relationships. The participant identified the positive and negative effects of it.
I think, based on the system weve set up here, there are times when I will interact with
a client, not over the phone but in person, like going out to dinner or an event or maybe
even spending some time with them during an event. You know, somehow I step into
their world and sometimes there is something thats breached that makes the process
either go much better or not go as well as it could have. Because all of a sudden they see
you as a person with whatever perceived flaws that there are And they take all that and
it either helps them in the process or a lot of times it helps them disengage because youre
not who they thought you should be.
Participant #10 recalled an instance where he fell for this pitfall in the system and
how it affected him as a coach. Yes, falling into the trap of feeling sorry for them if
theyre having troubles in their personal life. In my first year as a coach, you know, Id
tell them I was really sorry, and Id kind of back off a little bit. That didnt do anything
for me except lose clients.
Theme 4:
An effective business coach is reliable and supportive of his/her clients.
The fourth thematic label, behaviors present in an effective executive coach, was
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to the theme are (a) being reliable and supportive (8 out of 20 participants, 40%); (b)
possessing interpersonal skills (7 out of 20 participants, 35%); and (c) possessing
listening skills (4 out of 20 participants, 20%).
Table 4
Thematic Category 4
Behaviors Present in an Effective Executive Coach
Being reliable and supportive
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
8
Possessing interpersonal skills
35%
Possessing listening skills
20%
Acting as facilitator
15%
Having strong work ethic
10%
Pursuing personal growth
10%
Being proactive
10%
Not being a struggling coach"
5%
Possessing analytical skills
5%
Being persuasive and firm
5%
Having perseverance
5%
Being flexible
5%
Percentage of
this experience
40%
the invariant constituents illustrates that the perceived effective business coach exhibits
reliability and support to the clients. Participant #14 explained what is expected from a
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business coach: Helping somebody achieve their goals and often pushing them past or
beyond what they thought was possible for themselves. Participant #13 reiterated the
importance of the support of the coach in the clients process of achieving their goals.
The participant said that the coaches are going to stand beside someone, theyre going to
find out their goals, and theyre going to find out how they work, whats the best
motivation for them to reach their goals, what is their rhythm as far as how they work and
how they want to reach their goals.
Participants #8 & #11 believed that being supportive of their clients implies
walking hand-in-hand with the client in achieving their goals. Participant #11 added,
Then I sit down and I go through all of their transactions with them just to follow up and
make sure theyre doing all right And if they have any issues on the other side which is
not the business side, we do talk about them, but I dont bring them up. Participant #8
tried to come alongside the client where theyre at and try to coax them to wherever the
next step is based on where theyre at. The participant felt that by doing so makes it a
little bit simpler and a lot more rewarding to me actually, you know to take a person to
whatever their next step is and then know that its a part of a larger process to their
destination.
Participant #3 explained how he presents himself as a reliable coach to the client.
He stated, So Im never sick. Im always here. My clients count on me. I dont leave,
you know, cancel, or that kind of thing.
Participant #9 thought, one of the things I do that works well is that I do look off
into the future and show people the hope of things. The participant shared an anecdote
how being a supportive coach can be rewarding for the client. One experience is that I
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had a client who, when she first came to us, had over $300,000.00 in debt and
$150,000.00 of it was in IRS debt. And of course, this was very discouraging for her
because she could not see how she would ever get out from under it. So in addition to
that debt that she had, she also had some dreams. She had a neighborhood that she
wanted to live in. She wanted to own some real estate investment properties. So over the
course of about three years, we managed to pay off that debt and then over the course of
the next year she bought a home in the neighborhood that she always wanted to live in.
Then in the course of another year, she bought her first investment property. So, you
know it is amazing to me what can be accomplished with a coach that people dont seem
to be able to accomplish on their own. And part of it could be because some people dont
see the steps and they dont have the hope. So having somebody there who has the hope
and can see it almost completed for them is fabulous.
The participants also believed that interpersonal skills play a major role in
becoming an effective business coach. Participant #20 thought that most people in their
line of work are the relational-type of people. The participant explained this, No,
relational as opposed to, you know there are some people that maybe should be engineers
and shouldnt be around people, but most people in real estate are very relational and they
love talking to people and helping people. Thats the common denominator
Participant #19 believed he is one of the relational-type of people, and he finds
this useful in his interaction with his clients. Im extremely relational in nature, so if Im
having challenges or blocks in building a connection with somebody Im probably not
going to be able to successfully coach them because the connection is how theyre able to
open up, share their fears because so much of coaching we identify fears. Participant #4
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also echoed the same belief about himself. He shared, I will tell you that most people
that know me and my coaching style think my strongest skill is connecting to that person
and really them feeling safe so that they can go through the process.
Participant #7 stressed the importance of being able to relate to people because
people really need to know that you know them, that youre seeing them in the process.
It is helpful for coaches to possess interpersonal skills because they will be encountering
different kinds of people with different ways of interacting with them, similar to
Participant #10s expression: You dont expect people to immediately get it the first
time you say it. And it helps you understand that everybody learns differently. So Ive
got clients that I can explain something to them and they get it; I have some clients we
have to do hands-on and theyll get it; I have some clients that have to take my
information and go away and come back and theyve gotten it. So when you do a lot of
training with people, you understand that people learn in very, very different ways. So
you dont get frustrated if youre not getting the immediate response right then and
there.
Aside from interpersonal skills, it is also essential for business coaches to possess
good listening skills. Participant #1 equated being a good listener with being a good
coach. He said, Thats probably the biggest thing that Ive picked up here in learning to
be a good coach is to learn to be a good listener. Participant #7 believed that listening is
not limited to the clients words but, listening, I mean more by listening to the tone of
their voice, listening and reading between the lines as to what theyre not saying.
Participant #1 also thought that being an involved listener was a major skill he had
learned since he became a coach. He explained, I think the most important thing that
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Ive learned here is to be an active listener, hearing what the person is really saying and
shutting up and not having an opinion before they have even finished speaking.
Participant #12 thought that there were other essential behaviors in addition to listening.
Coaches need to listen to their clients, so I think listening and giving feedback,
mirroring back, eye contact, those kinds of things, just helping them with those kinds of
things and pointing it out to them.
Participant #4 pointed out the danger of failing to listen to the clients when he
stated, Because if all you talk about is calls, notes, and pop eyes and they keep on
missing the calls, notes, and pop eyes then you dont address why or how or any of that
and all you keep on coming out is from that same business aspect every time, you hit a
brick wall. Because youre not listening to them anymore.
Theme 5:
Business coaches deem that the distance-learning model is more effective than face-toface coaching.
The fifth thematic label, positive characteristics of distance-learning model, was
to the theme are (a) provides increase in efficiency (4 out of 20 participants, 20%); (b)
leads to more concentration and less distractions (4 out of 20 participants, 20%); and (c)
creates safety (4 out of 20 participants, 20%).
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Table 5
Thematic Category 5
Positive Characteristics of Distance-learning Model
Provides increase in efficiency
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
4
Percentage of
this experience
20%
Leads to more concentration and less

4
20%
Creates safety
20%
Produces less biased feedback
15%
Creates better disclosure from clients
15%
Provides increase in coverage of clients
15%
Provides access to other tools or resources
15%
Produces convenience
10%
Results in more formal interactions
10%
Turns coach to an authority figure
10%
5%
Effectiveness of visual coaching than verbal
5%
Makes communication more strategic
5%
Leads to better relationships with the clients
5%
No response
5%
distractions
Prevents being too affected by clients

problems
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the invariant constituents illustrates that the business coaches perceive the distancelearning model as a more effective method in coaching. Participants #5, 7, 10, 18 all
believed in the efficiency of the model. Participant #7 said, I think you can be very
effective. I mean I always knew that I could be very effective just over the phone. If you
can sell on the phone then you can coach on the phone. Some of these people Ive met in
person at events, so I cant say theyve all just been phone conversations. Participant
#18 added, I think the pros are like I said, its efficient. You can coach people all over
the country. You rely very heavily on listening. You know, you dont see their visual
cues and it heightens your sense of listening and thats not a bad thing. You listen to
whats not being said. Participant #10 attributed the effectiveness to the safety involved:
And I have coached some clients face-to-face; its just so much more effective, in my
opinion, to do it at a distance because there is safety with it. Participant #5, however,
believed it is effective because more output can be generated. He explained, It allows
you to facilitate more conversations in a day.
A number of participants believed that strength of the model is that it has fewer
distractions and enables the coaches to concentrate more. Participant #9 thought there is
more ease in conducting the calls when he stated, Oh I think that its probably easier to
coach people over the phone than it would be to coach them face-to-face. Because Im
not distracted.
Participant #8 noted that a problem with coaching face-to-face is how it affects
the process itself. He said, Whereas, I find this, if youre in person and lets say you get
into a coaching process, the visual cues they pick up I think can sometimes undermine the
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effect of the engagementBut I think the visual stuff, like the physical presence, can also
be a distraction too. Whereas if all youre doing is focusing on an audible cue, then
youre probably leaning in to pay more attention to that thing too. Just a guess.
Participant #13 believed that the distance enhances the clients concentration. He
said, I think for a lot of people its better to do the distance by the phone. I think when
were face-to-face a lot of times they seem to be more nervous and, Oh my gosh! Ive
got to be just what my coach wants me to be. And you know we dont coach at these
events but when a client comes up and asks you a question, which they always seem to
do, I feel like the distance coaching by the phone calls is a lot of times better. They can
concentrate. We dont have outside influences going around.
The participant feels that the distance also provides a sense of safety for both
coaches and clients alike. Participant #13 and #18 felt that the distance helps to protect
the relationship of both parties. Participant #13 explained, I think theres more of, unless
you have a really solid, solid long-term relationship with a client, I think it would be less
threatened. I think it would be more threatening for whatever reason to be face-to-face.
Participant #18 added, Theyre opening up, theyre sharing confidential information and
weve got a lot of structure and systems in place to protect that relationship; but we are
not regulated so theres a little bit of liability there too. So I think distance and over the
phone creates a little safety there for both sides.
Participant #19 explained that the distance makes the conversation less
confrontational in nature: I think it is easier with the distance to call people on their
stuff. Being removed kind of gives permission... Its not as confrontational. And I feel
like with the distance that its safer. Participant #10 shared an example how it is safer
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for clients, specifically when disclosing some information. I may not tell you that Im
$100,000.00 in debt, but on the phone, there is a sense of security there and a sense of
safety.
Theme 6:
Business coaches perceive that the inability to observe nonverbal language is a weakness
of the distance-learning model.
The sixth thematic label, disadvantages of distance-learning model, was
to the theme are (a) inability to observe nonverbal language (6 out of 20 participants,
30%); (b) difficulty in connecting with clients (5 out of 20 participants, 25%); and (c)
inability to supervise clients (5 out of 20 participants; 25%).
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Table 6
Thematic Category 6
Disadvantages of Distance-learning Model
Inability to observe nonverbal language
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
6
Percentage of
this experience
30%
Difficulty in connecting with clients
25%
Inability to supervise clients
25%
None
15%
Difficulty on explaining technical processes
10%
Preference for face-to-face coaching
10%
Possibility to become self-conscious
5%
Need for more concentration
5%
Informality
5%
the invariant constituents illustrates that the business coaches thought that the lack of
opportunity to observe the nonverbal language, specifically the body language, is a
disadvantage of the model. Participant #5 described the drawback of using a distancelearning model. He stated, Its always a different experience in person than over the
phone because you can see someones body language, you can see facial expressions, you
can see when a shadow crosses their face and when something is not sitting well with
them whereas you dont have that opportunity on the phone. Participant #18 added,
The downside is, when youre visual, you get to see their body language and their visual
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cues. So you really have to get in the zone to listen to them, to know what theyre
saying, to know what theyre not saying and to pull out, to keep the truthful, transparent
thing going on there because, otherwise, its a waste of time.
Participants #2, 3, & 16 observed that not being able to see the clients body
language affects the interaction with the clients. Participant #3 thought that clients have a
difficult time connecting with the coaches if the process is by phone. He shared, I think
you communicate a lot with body language and all that. Ive had some clients who were
like, I dont even know what you look like. So Im having a hard time connecting
because I dont know who you are. Participant #2 thought that in contrast to this, if the
interaction was done face-to-face, you would get a better feel for their emotional state.
Like you can read facial expressions a lot more and take body language into account.
Participant #16 believed that miscommunication could be commonplace when body
language was absent. He explained, Well sometimes there are people on the other end of
the phone who dont move as rapidly as I do and it takes them longer to process. So I
could misinterpret their slowness to answer as them not getting what Im saying.
Whereas if I can see you, I can assess that theyre getting it He added, When theyre
writing or whatever. Or I can see their face when they look like, What the heck are you
talking about? I know that versus on the phone I see nothing. All I hear is a voice and if
they say nothing, Im left guessing.
Another important theme that emerged from the data shows that the model creates
a more aloof relationship between coaches and clients. Participant #17 captured this
observation when he said, distance also allows them to separate from me. Participant
#11 believed that face-to-face coaching is more effective in establishing relationships
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with clients. He explained, I mean you build relationships with clients; would the
relationship be closer if it was face-to-face? Sure. I always feel that face-to-face is better
than just voice-to-voice, and thats why I kind of like the idea of the camera thing.
Okay? Am I going to use that with more of my clients? Maybe, at least have them see
me... Participant #14 also echoed the same concern. As a coach, I definitely feel more
of a connection once Ive met a person. You know, I think our relationship kind of takes
off at that point. Participant #16 explained this observation: You know, the process of
building rapport takes a little bit longer because you cant be there. Most communication
that happens is nonverbal so we lose out on a lot of that.
A number of participants also believed that with the use of a distance-learning
model, there is less opportunity to supervise the clients meticulously. The participants
noted that this might tend to promote dishonesty with regard to task completion by
clients. Participant #6 shared his view on this, Sometimes not being able to see what
theyre doing on a day-to-day basis, what theyre saying in their conversations,
sometimes that can be a challenge because they could be saying they are doing one thing
but when they actually go out there and they are applying it, it can be something totally
different. Participant #4 had the same experience. He said, Theyll say theyre doing
something but theyre not really. Like if you say did you do your calls, theyll say yes.
But they were supposed to do 25 and they did 2.
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Theme 7:
Business coaches do not employ special techniques or practices in the distance-learning
model.
The seventh thematic label, special techniques or practices used in distancelearning, was determined from 11 invariant constituents (see Table 7). Only the invariant
constituents that received more than three responses are noted in the text. The
constituents central to the theme are (a) none (6 out of 20 participants, 30%); and (b) no
response (4 out of 20 participants, 20%).
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Table 7
Thematic Category 7
Special Techniques or Practices Used in Distance-learning
Invariant Constituents
None
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
6
Percentage of
this experience
30%
No response
20%
Managing the nature of the calls
10%
Doing voice modulation
10%
Multi-tasking
10%
Note-taking
10%
Focusing on positive things
10%
Making the clients comfortable
5%
Being energetic in taking calls
5%
Calling the clients out of the blue
5%
Sending handwritten communication
5%
the invariant constitutes illustrates that business coaches do not make use of any special
techniques or practice as a function of coaching over the phone, internet or other methods
of distance-learning. Most participants explicitly said No or Not aware of any when
asked if they had any special techniques that they use.
Participant #7, on the other hand, explained that there is no need to use such
techniques because he is very methodical in his interactions with the clients. He stated,
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No. I am very systematic because we have a time line and everything. So with every
client I do the same thing. I call them up and ask about how they did on their action
steps, and ask them to tell me about their successes.
Participant #3 shared that he does not do any other activity while he does
coaching over the phone or internet. He said, I dont play Solitaire on my calls. I dont
eat on my calls. I just drink coffee, but I do that. He explained that he focuses his
attention on coaching or listening to the clients. I cant do that and really listen to my
clients. I have seen other people do it and I dont know how they do it. You know, shop;
I cant do that because I listen and because Im hearing how I can serve, I hear theres a
road block or something. So if Im chewing, shopping, or something I pretty much.
A number of participants also failed to articulate their opinions when they did not
reply to the particular question of the study. However, a lack of response should not be
equated to participants believing that they make no use of any technique; this group is not
the same as the previous group of business coaches who explicitly stated they do not
make use of any specific technique.
Theme 8:
Business coaches believe that the most effective method of engaging the clients with goal
setting is to ask them to identify what they want.
The eighth thematic label, adult teaching methods in involving clients with goal
setting, was determined from 11 invariant constituents (see Table 8). Only the invariant
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constituents central to the theme are (a) asking clients to identify what they want (8 out of
20 participants, 40%); and (b) working with the client (4 out of 20 participants, 20%).
Table 8
Thematic Category 8
Adult Teaching Methods in Involving Clients with Goal Setting
Asking clients to identify what they want
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
8
Percentage of
this experience
40%
Working with client
20%
Emphasizing on importance of goal setting
15%
Determining the goals independently
10%
Using coercion
10%
Making clients feel that goals are attainable
5%
Prioritizing personal goals
5%
Teaching tracking numbers
5%
Encouraging clients to write their goals
5%
Making use of heritage profile
5%
Listing appointments and setting priority list
5%
the invariant constituents illustrates that business coaches request their clients to identify
the specific goals they wish to work on so that they will be involved with the process of
goal setting. A significant number of participants believed the first step in goal setting is
to allow the clients to determine what they want or what is important for them, and that
100
successful goal setting follows from that. Participants #1 and #3 would usually ask their
clients to identify the goals and would then backtrack to determine the methods for how
to achieve them. Participant #1 said, I try to identify a spot. You know thats the hardest
part. I get them to think about a picture. Since some folks cant just write a goal, I have
them describe what a week that theyve enjoyed looked like. And then we can usually
backtrack and put some tangibles in place of that. Participant #3 added, I will have
them come to what they want to make and what their goal is. Then well work it out. I
have them come to that number by finding out what it costs to run their business and
what they want in their pocket after expenses. So they start working backwards.
Participant #12 would ask questions related to the clients dreams in order to keep
the clients interested in goal setting. Ill talk to them about where they want to be, that
kind of thing. Well just talk about some of their goals, their dreams, you know, what
kind of vacation they want to take, where do you want to be kind of thing. Participant
#13 did the same thing, even for the clients who were not keen on goal setting. He said,
They may be unwilling, but I just keep asking questions and find out what theyre
interested in or what would be important to them.
Participants #14, 17 and 18 would ask probing questions, especially for clients
who are uncertain of their goals, until they detail the specifics. Participant #14 explained
fully, So in terms of how to get them involved you just keep asking more questions so
that you get the specifics, you find out what that means, again, almost everybody puts the
same two things on their business analysis, i.e., I want to grow my business and I want
accountability. Thats why I got into coaching. But what that means to every person, you
knowtotally different.
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Participant #18 added that it is essential to pinpoint the reasons why some clients
are not motivated to set goals or achieve them. He stated, then you try to get them to
works towards their goal and theyre not very motivated so you have to find out why.
Isnt this a meaningful goal to you? Okay. What is a meaningful goal? How can we
make it meaningful? You know, I dont know, people dont know what they want half
the time. You want to travel? You want to make a certain amount of money?
A further theme that emerged from the interviews with the participants was that
some business coaches are tenacious in working with the client in order to achieve goal
setting. Participant #12 described how he teams up with the client throughout the process
of goal setting. Well each year and each quarter, I try to review the goals with them and
they go to Turning Points hopefully and they write goals there. Hopefully, they transfer
them into the Five Circle goal area of the web site so I can see them and help them track
it. Then we look at them quarterly or once every six months to see where they are, if they
need to change that goal, if the time frame is realistic and things like that. So its a matter
of checking in and making sure, and scheduling.
Participant #4 explained the importance of collaborating with the client to keep
the goals realistic. He said, Well typically they come in with set goals and then as you
work with them you figure out if they are real goals or not.
Theme 9:
Business coaches believe that the most effective method of determining the clients goals
is to discuss with them about their plans.
The ninth thematic label, adult teaching methods of determining goals, was
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to the theme are (a) talk to the clients about their plans (4 out of 20 participants, 20%);
(b) determine goals from general to specific (4 out of 20 participants, 20%); and (c)
identify goals based on clients preferences (4 out of 20 participants, 20%).
Table 9
Thematic Category 9
Adult Teaching Methods of Determining Goals
Talk to the clients about their plans
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
4
Percentage of
this experience
20%
Determine goals from general to specific
20%
Identify goals based on clients' preferences
20%
Use probing questions
15%
Set action steps
15%
Identify realistic goals
10%
Use smart filter
10%
Use web applications
5%
the invariant constituents illustrates that business coaches deem that it is necessary to talk
to the clients to be able to determine their goals. Participant #10 believed that from
talking with clients, it is possible to flesh out possible goals the client may have
overlooked or missed. The participant said, There have been times where weve talked
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about where they want to go or something they want to do and Ill say, Now do you see
where this could be a goal? Do you see how this is a goal?
Participant #14 thought that talking with clients is the starting point in
determining the goals. This should be done prior to setting the number of goals, making
the numbers more realistic. He explained, I try to get them to talk, yeah, because some
of them will just put the 25. Well if the boss says I have to do 25 I have to do 25 and
then the next week they show up and theyre totally dejected because, again, they did
two. You know. But if now you start to say, Lets make the goal five, and they get
five, well now all of a sudden they realize they can do that; okay, good, can you do
seven, can you do then? And then you get them winning at their level and now they start
to pick up the pace closer to what their real goal would be.
Participant #7 shared that he and the client talk about goals, then the client uses
the tools in the website to stay with the goal setting process. We talk about goals. We
eventually come up with goals, and part of what we have on the web site is we have ways
where they track their business transactions and then they have another page where they
track their activities and they have another page where they have their Five-Circle goals
which is what I want them to start with.
A number of participants believed that it is efficient to start with general goals
then proceed to determining the more specific ones. Participant #9 encouraged this
approach because he felt that starting with detailed goals can cause problems. He stated,
They think too small and the things they really want they think they can never have. So
you know they may at first not want to talk about that but if you can find out what that is
and then show them the path they will accomplish it. Thus, what the participant does is
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I ask them first of all just the basic things regarding how much money they want to
make and so forth; how many hours do you want to work; just the basic things people
need to move forward in their business. Also what I like to do is get a bigger picture like
what their real goal is and what is their real dream.
Participants #3 and #4 both thought that starting with a general goal means to
start with their financial goal, what they need to make, and what it costs them to run
their business and stuff like that. Participant #4 echoed the same belief when he stated,
I would just start with business and financial first. So I just work out what their budget
is, how much they need to make, how many deals they need to do for that, and that would
bring us down to activity, you know how much activity they will need simply to make the
bills and get the business. Once they have some type of stability there, that typically
opens up other pieces. I dont think theyll ever get past stability if they dont look at the
other three goals. But if they cant start, I just start with how much money they need to
live and I go from there. Participant #3 further elaborated this with an anecdote: I
remember one guy when I started coaching him, he said, I want to make $60,000.00.
Great. Okay. How much does it cost you to live? Oh it doesnt cost that much. Great.
So we started off with a net income, but we started off with making $60,000.00 because
that was going to be his goal. By the time we got the budget done and had a clue of what
his business was costing him, he was spending $90,000.00. He needed $90,000.00 and
had set a goal for himself of $60,000.00 when he needed $90,000.00.
A further theme was that executive coaches endorse that the goals set should be
based on the clients preferences. Participant #15 believed that how the clients approach
their goals is based on how much they value certain goals. Thus, the logical thing to do is
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to first analyze what it is that clients want. The participant said, You have to, as a coach,
be able to go in, analyze what it is that they want, break it down to you know, whats
your average sales price, what do you normally close transactionally on an annual basis
Once I know how much business they have to do, I have a general idea of how much
activity is needed in order to achieve that volume of business. Sometimes when you
break something down that nitty gritty, some of the clients are like, okay, maybe I dont
really want to make $200,000.00 this year, maybe $100,000.00 is fine.
Participant #19 thought that the most important goals for the client should be used
to develop realistic goals. Based on usually what they feel is really important. I find out
the thing that is really important and what I try to do is back it down to a 90-day goal,
something that we can actually accomplish.
Participant #8 captured the significance of making the goal setting process clientcentered. Well, I think its really necessary for a coach to understand the clients agenda,
and the goal-writing process is an opportunity to step out of my expectations for that
person and step into their shoes to say whats a win for them. So that from the beginning
of the entire process sets you up as an advocate for that client and not as a dictator saying,
This is what youve got to do or be or achieve or whatever.
Theme 10:
Business coaches perceive that using experiential learning is another effective teaching
method aside from goal setting.
The tenth thematic label, other effective adult teaching methods aside from goal
setting, was determined from 11 invariant constituents (see Table 10). Only the invariant
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constituents central to the theme are (a) use experiential learning (6 out of 20 participants,
30%); (b) use tools and materials (5 out of 20 participants, 25%); and (c) identify goals
based on clients preferences (4 out of 20 participants, 20%).
Table 10
Thematic Category 10
Other Effective Adult Teaching Methods Aside from Goal Setting
Use experiential learning
Number of
participants to
offer this
experience
6
Percentage of
this experience
30%
Use tools or materials
25%
No response
15%
Teach the mechanics of the system
10%
Study the process and the long term results
10%
Use role-playing
5%
Use group facilitation methods
5%
Use pragmatic methods
5%
Have team building activities
5%
Ask questions
5%
Use client-centered approach
5%
the invariant constituents illustrates that business coaches consider the use of learning by
experience, both own and others experience, is a useful teaching method. Participant #20
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summarized the magnitude of using experiential learning for his clients. He stated, Ive
found that probably the best teaching I can give them is experientially, you know,
because what we do, we have a coaching manual and they can read the coaching manual.
They can read what a call is, what note is, what a pop eye is, so for me, the ones that they
really appreciate that Im teaching them on is really experientially.
However, for other participants, learning through experience is not limited to
ones own experience. Participant #19 felt that his own experience as a coach, as well as
peers experiences could be a source of learning for the client. The participant said, How
I use mine is I pull examples from other clients because people listen to that and learn
from it really well. And so experientially people learn more effectively by hearing about
other peoples experiences. It helps them start to engage in the conversation.
Participant #2 observed that using other peoples stories appears to make the
clients feel that they are not the only ones experiencing something. I think bringing in
your own stories, your clients stories; I think inevitably people always feel like they are
alone, like theyre the only ones out there.
Participant #1 discovered that peers stories can be more effective and interesting
than coaching from the business coach itself. He shares, I find that they are much more
interested in listening to each other than they are of listening to me. And if I can bring
something out that their peers have learned they are much more likely to listen to a peer
than say a professor.
Participant #16 shared that he organizes a group session online wherein the
members will share their best moments, what they learned from it, so that others from the
group may learn from it also. The participant described the process: That one person is
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going, for awhile, to become basically the presenter and give what their best practice was,
what lesson they learned, what they think is maybe a story about an interaction they had
with a client that is helpful. Then we move from there and everybody gets an opportunity
to synergize, give their own ideas, and ask questions of each other, of the material or the
person who presented it, and then we move into having action items, and checking it, and
then doing kind of a roll call, okay, the last time we met these were the action items.
Tom, how did you do? What was maybe one of your obstacles or a victory that you got
out of that? Alright xxxxx, how about you, and so on? So there is a level of
accountability, not the same or as in-depth as one-on-one coaching because were not
looking at their specific numbers. Were going off of what they tell us. But, nonetheless,
its still a place where theyve got to check in.
A number of participants also believed that the use of tools can be helpful in
teaching clients. Participant #8 enumerated the materials he usually uses: There are a lot
of resources that we have here. So whether its listening to a conference call on a
particular subject, reading a book, watching even a movie, all the training resources that
we have including video clips and work books and all that, thats an obvious way to do
it. Participant #10 narrated that he usually uses a variety of resources, especially when
teaching the system to the clients. He stated, when Im teaching the system Im usually
going pretty systematically with the tools that Ive been given. We either have a
coaching manual, Ive got the web site, Ive got the referral to the boss if theyve been to
a Turning Point, but when its doing calls, notes and pop eyes, then Im straight in
teaching mode. This is how we do it, this is the optimum way to do it, and this is the
perfect way.
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Individual Structural Descriptions
The summarized individual textural descriptions were used to develop the
individual structural descriptions and imaginative variation. Individual structural
descriptions provide the fundamental depiction of each participants perceptions and
feelings regarding the themes surrounding business coaching.
Structural Description for Participant #1:
Participant #1 described that business-coaching is about implementation and
development of particular business plans. Participant #1 believed that listening, asking
more questions are effective means of being a coach. Participant #1 also believed that as
a coach, he is has the capability to show the clients their progress. The participant also
believed that it is also important for the coaches to emphasize to the clients what they are
missing. Participant #1 recalled that being too strict with the plan and not addressing the
clients needs are ineffective practices as a coach. Participant #1 thinks that having
developed listening skills is important for coaches. The participant also believed that
being a good coach is having a trust relationship with somebody who knows that your
only agenda is to help them succeed. Participant #1 believed that an advantage of
distance-learning is that it makes use of visual explanation as well as verbal. Participant
#1 believed that the disadvantage of distance-learning is when technical processes or
concepts are being discussed, some clients may not be able to understand them well.
Participant #1 also believed that the use of videos in distance-learning has had an effect
on him as a coach. He reported becoming more self-conscious and less focused on the
coaching. Participant #1 reported using voice modulation as a technique. The participant
also believed that being energetic when communicating with the clients is also an
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effective technique. Participant #1 shared how he helps the clients engage into setting
their goals. Participant #1 makes use of probing questions to help clients determine their
goals. Participant #1 deeply believed that goal-setting has positive effects on the success
of the client. Participant #1 felt that group facilitation is an effective method of coaching.
The participant also observed that clients learn more from other clients.
Participant #2 described business-coaching as focusing primarily on financial
issues. Participant #2 believed that effective coaching practice is to establish the goals
and remove the obstacles that prevent the client from reaching the goals. The participant
also believed that it is effective to put things into perspective. Participant #2 recalled it is
not helpful to give out information with an unidentified source since this will backfire.
Participant #2 thought that coaches should strive not to be struggling coaches.
Participant # 2 believed that one advantage of distance-learning is that the coaches are
able to give less biased feedback to clients. The participant identified that, in a distancelearning environment, coaches are less affected by the clients problems. Participant #2
believed that one disadvantage of distance-learning is that the coach may form less of an
emotional bond with the client. The participant further added that in face-to-face learning,
you can read facial expressions a lot more and take body language into account and
that this characteristic adds an additional challenge to distance-learning.
Participant # 2 reported multi-tasking as a special technique employed in
distance-learning. Participant #2 shared how he helps the clients engage into setting their
goals by emphasizing the importance of this step and that it should be the clients who
decide their goals. Participant # 2 talked with the clients to help them determine their
goals. The participant preferred to look at the process and the long-term effects as a
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method in coaching. The participant added that the use of peer stories is an effective
coaching technique.
Participant #3 believed that business coaching is concerned with the
implementation and development of business plans. The participant believed that an
effective practice in business coaching is following the progress of clients. In contrast,
the participant identified an ineffective practice in business coaching as being tough with
clients. The participant believed that an effective business coach should possess a strong
work ethic. Participant #3 noted more disclosure from clients as a positive characteristic
of a distance-learning model. Participant #3 observed that no body language is involved
when using a distance-learning model. The participant stated that he does not employ any
special techniques when coaching by distance-learning. Participant #3 believed that, in
the process of goal setting, it is important for clients to identify those goals. The
participant described that, when defining goals, it is more effective to start with general
goals and then proceed to the specific ones. The participant believed that team building is
an effective teaching method. The participant added peer coaching to the list of effective
teaching methods.
Participant #4 identified that business coaching focuses more on the technique of
coaching others rather than on the business aspect of coaching. The participant believed
that, each day, business coaching provides the coaches with unique experiences.
Participant #4 described an effective practice in a business-coaching environment as
thinking outside the box. Participant #4 felt that it is an effective practice to force clients
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to disclose when theyre not ready. Participant #4 believes that business coaches should
exhibit good listening skills. The participant added that coaches should be analytic.
Participant #4 thought that coaches should possess good interpersonal skills. The
participant believed that a distance-learning model can create a stronger relationship with
the client but, that this is dependent on the boundaries set by the coach. Participant #4
thought that a disadvantage of the distance-learning model is that the coaches are not able
to supervise whether or not clients make the calls they state they have. The participant did
not identify other special techniques or practices that are employed in a distance-learning
model. Participant #4 believed that to obtain client involvement in goal setting, the coach
must first work with the client in determining the goals. Participant #4 thought that an
effective method of determining goals is first to identify a general goal then to follow
with more specific goals.
Participant #5 stated that business coaching is structured specifically by the model
it follows. The goal of the business coaching environment is to create a structured
business plan for its clients. Participant #5 thought that an effective practice in a
business-coaching environment is to make the clients accountable for their businesses.
The participant also believed that results, specifically the positive ones, should be
emphasized. Participant #5 felt that insensitivity to clients should not be practiced in the
business-coaching environment. Participant #5 observed that an advantage of using the
distance-learning model is its convenience. Participant #5 identified that there is no
opportunity to observe nonverbal language in a distance-learning model. Participant #5
did not identify other special techniques or practices that the participant uses in distance-
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learning. Participant #5 believed that for clients to be involved in goal setting, the
coaches should work with clients in their goals. Participant #5 shared that to assist clients
in determining their goals, the participant sets action steps to foster this process.
Participant #5 did not mention any adult teaching methods aside from goal setting.
Participant #6 described that business-coaching is concerned with effectively
setting and achieving goals. Participant #6 thought that being attuned to the specific
goals, needs and skills of the clients is an effective means of being a coach. The
participant identified that it is important to foster the independent thinking of clients.
Participant #6 remembered that being too rigid is an ineffective practice as a coach.
Participant #6 believed that particularity is important for coaches. The participant also
thought that perseverance is also necessary for coaches. Participant #6 identified that one
of the advantages of distance-learning is that it allows a birds-eye view or perspective on
situations. Participant #6 believed that the disadvantage of distance-learning is that clients
cannot be supervised meticulously. Participant #6 mentioned that making the clients
comfortable is one of the techniques used in a coaching call. Another technique the
participant employed is to focus on the positive notes. Participant #6 shared how he helps
the clients get involved into setting their goals by using Heritage Profile. Participant #6
utilized web applications to help clients determine their goals. Participant #6 thought that
videotaping the clients can also be an effective technique.
Participant #7 believed that business coaching is concerned with focusing on the
fundamentals. Participant #7 felt that an effective practice in the business coaching
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environment is establishing the clients goals. Participant #7 believed that the coaches
should not make the clients dependent on the coach, but that supporting clients was
effective. Participant #7 thought that a strength of the distance-learning model is that it is
more effective. Participant #7 identified a disadvantage of the distance-learning model as
the fact that coaches need to be more attentive. Participant #7 did not identify the use of
any special techniques and practices used in distance-learning. Participant #7 thought that
an effective method of involving clients in goal setting is to encourage the idea that the
goals are attainable. Participant #7 believed that it is important to talk to clients about
their goals in order to help them determine those. Participant #7 added that business
coaches focus more on business goals. Participant #7 shared that one teaching method he
employs is to ask multiple questions of clients.
Participant #8 explained that business-coaching is concerned with identifying and
achieving business goals. Participant #8 thought that being attuned to the specific goals,
needs and skills of the clients is an effective practice in business-coaching environments.
Participant #8 mentioned that being too close and being over involved with the clients are
ineffective practices in the business coaching world. Participant #8 thought that
encouraging and working hand-in-hand with the clients are important behaviors for
coaches. Participant #8 identified that one advantage of distance-learning is that of the
clients receptivity to a perceived powerful person. Another advantage of distancelearning is that there are fewer visual distractions. Participant #8 thought that one of the
disadvantages of distance-learning occurs when coaches are unable to supervise their
clients carefully. Participant # 8 reported using voice modulation as a technique.
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Participant #8 shared that committing to and encouraging the clients to write their goals
helps the clients to become involved with this process. Participant #8 stated that he tries
to understand the clients agenda in order to assist them to determine their goals.
Participant #8 reported the use of additional resources as another effective method of
coaching.
Participant #9 described that business-coaching is focused on the achievement of
business goals. Participant #9 believed that listening well to clients is an effective
practice in the business-coaching environment. Participant #9 mentioned that excessive
talking and reassuring without pushing the client to take action is an ineffective practice
in the business-coaching environment. Participant #9 thought that encouraging hope and
laying down the necessary steps to take are important behaviors for coaches. Participant
#9 identified that one of the advantages of distance-learning is that there are fewer
distractions for the coach. Participant #9 believed that distance-learning has no
disadvantages. Participant #9 mentioned focusing on positive things as a practice.
Keeping the call short and straight to the point is also part of participant #9s practice.
Participant #9 shared that setting short-term, action step style of goals helps the clients
engage with setting their goals. Participant #9 probed into the goals in order to help the
clients determine these goals. Participant #9 thought that empathizing with clients is an
effective method of coaching. The participant also believed that it is helpful to be clientcentered rather than coach-centered.
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Participant #10 believed that business-coaching has an emphasis on
accountability. Participant #10 felt that it is an effective practice in the business-coaching
environment to encourage clients to believe in their strengths. Participant #10 felt that it
is an ineffective practice to be too much involved with the clients personal lives.
Participant #10 believed that executive coaches possess good interpersonal skills.
Participant #10 identified a positive characteristic of the distance-learning model as the
clients increased tendencies to disclosure when on the phone. Participant #10 thought
that a disadvantage of the distance-learning model is that the clients are too detached
from their coaches. The participant added it is easier for clients to lie about their results.
Participant #10 was not aware of any special techniques and practices used in distancelearning. Participant #10 shared that an effective method of involving clients with goal
setting is to focus on the clients personal goals first. Participant #10 felt that an effective
method of determining the goals of the clients is to talk to them about the goals.
Participant #10 shared that the use of tools or material are other teaching methods that
can be successfully employed.
Participant #11 stated that business coaching is concerned with focusing on the
business and financial aspects and achieving business goals. Participant #11 believed that
an effective practice of the business coaching environment is to empower the clients. The
participant added that making a follow-up call on clients is also effective. The participant
noted that an ineffective practice in business coaching environments is giving up too soon
on clients. Participant #11 observed that executive coaches work hand in hand with their
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clients. The participant felt that executive coaches are proactive. This participant thought
that a positive characteristic of the distance-learning model is that coaches have access to
other tools while coaching a client. The participant added that the model is formal in
nature. The participant believed that a disadvantage of the model is that there is a
challenge to explaining, by phone, the more technical processes and concepts, and there
is no eye contact with the client. The participant also felt that a distance-learning model
prevents the coaches from having a closer relationship with clients. Participant #11 did
not identify any special technique or practice used in the distance-learning model.
Participant #11 believed that coaches should go through the goals with the client to
involve them in goal setting. The participant also believed that coercion is an effective
method to engage clients in goal setting. Participant #11 stated that he asks the clients to
write their goals, specifically from general to specific, when determining these goals.
Participant #11 thought that role-playing during calls is another effective teaching
method to employ with clients.
Participant #12 stated that a business coaching environments is concerned with
focusing on strategic planning and the elements of business. The participant believed in
using a business perspective as an approach. The participant thought that an effective
practice of business coaching is to help clients gain perspective on what they are doing
with their businesses. The participant added that it is an effective practice to make clients
accountable for their businesses. The participant identified that it is effective to focus on
the positive and on accomplishments. The participant noted that an ineffective practice in
business coaching is lack of communication with the clients. Participant #12 believed that
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coaches act as facilitators for clients. This participant thought that coaches should have
good communication skills. The participant believed that a positive characteristic of the
distance-learning model is that there is no opportunity to see the body language of the
clients, thus no resistance can be seen. The participant added that, due to the distance, the
client perceives coaches as authority figures. The participant felt that a disadvantage of
the distance-learning model is that some clients prefer face-to-face interaction because
they are more visual in their approach to interaction. The participant shared that a special
technique used in distance-learning is taking notes. The participant explained that it is
more efficient to write notes by hand rather than typing on the computer. Participant #12
believed that it is important to go through the goals with the client so that the client
engages with the process of goal setting. The participant stated that he makes sure that
time is allotted to checking the clients goals from time to time. The participant also
stated that coaches should talk to clients about their goals. The participant noted that, in
the process of determining goals, an effective method is to work on the clients action
steps. The participant also believed that there should be a focus on realistic goals.
Participant #12 shared that another effective teaching method to employ is that of
reviewing the process and the results with the client.
Participant #13 stated that business coaching environments are focused on
business planning and business-goals planning. Participant #13 observed that an effective
practice in business coaching involves giving more to clients than what is expected. The
participant also believed that clients weaknesses should be addressed. The participant
stated that being nervous and uncomfortable with the clients should be avoided. The
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participant also added that forgetting scheduled calls to clients should be avoided. The
participant believed that business coaches should be reliable and supportive of their
clients, facilitating the process during which clients reach their goals. The participant
thought that the distance-learning model provides more concentration for the coaches.
The participant further believed that distance-learning is less threatening. Participant #13
did not perceive any disadvantage in distance-learning. In fact, the participant stated that
he prefers to use distance-learning than face-to-face coaching. Participant #13 explicitly
stated No when asked if he employs any special techniques in distance-learning. The
participant believed that the most effective teaching method to involve clients with goal
setting is to ask the clients about their goals and then follow their interests. Participant
#13 reported using the Heritage profile to determine the goals of the clients. The
participant also reported using action steps in determining goals. Participant #13 shared
that an effective teaching method he employs is teaching the clients how the system
works.
Participant #14 stated that business-coaching environments are concerned with
focusing on business planning and creating a balance between personal and business
aspects in the clients lives. The participant noted that an effective practice in business
coaching is focusing on positive things. Participant #14 believed that an ineffective
practice in business-coaching environments occurs when the coaching style does not
match the clients profile. Participant #14 observed that business coaches spend time
encouraging clients. The participant thought that, because the coaches are using a
distance-learning model, the participant is able to use notes more readily than when
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interacting directly with clients. The participant noted that a disadvantage of using a
distance-learning model is that it is more informal and thus it allows the coaches to be
stricter with their clients. The participant also added that a distance-learning environment
results in less of a connection being established between coaches and clients. Participant
#14 observed that a special technique used in distance-learning is multi-tasking.
Participant #14 explained that to engage clients in goal setting, questions should be asked
about their goals, and it is more efficient if the clients interests are followed. The
participant feels that it is important to talk to a client before determining the number of
goals to be established. The participant noted that another teaching method employed is
to teach the clients how the whole system works so that the clients will be able to
progress more efficiently.
Participant #15 explained that business-coaching is concerned with focusing on
business planning. Participant #15 believed that drawing out peoples potential and
focusing on the positive are effective means of being a coach. The participant thought
that providing motivation and applying what is being taught are also effective practices in
business coaching environments. Participant #15 also thought that overdoing the
coaching is an ineffective practice as a coach. Participant #15 stated that being flexible
and open to the needs of the clients are important behaviors for coaches. Participant #15
thought that one advantage of distance-learning is that it allows access to other resources.
Participant #15 stated that one of the disadvantages of distance-learning is that some
clients prefer face-to-face interaction. Participant #15 thought that coercion can be a
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means to involve clients with goal setting. Participant #15 shared that assisting the clients
to analyze what they want is a method of determining their goals.
Participant #16 described that business-coaching is about coming alongside
clients to assist them to attain their level of success. Participant #16 thought that building
rapport with clients is an effective means of being a coach. The participant also believed
that it is important for the coach not to accept the excuses of the clients. Participant #16
remembered that not being unable to understand the Heritage Profile well enough
contributes to ineffective practice as a coach. Participant #16 thought that being
persuasive and firm are important for coaches. The participant also thought that coaches
should never stop learning. Participant #16 identified one of the disadvantages of
distance-learning is that it takes a longer time to build rapport with clients. Participant
#16 believed that distance-learning is prone to misunderstanding. Participant #16
mentioned that calling clients out of the blue is one of the techniques or practices used in
a coaching call. Participant #16 stated that another technique the participant employed is
to send handwritten communications to clients. Participant #16 shared that letting the
clients think independently about what they need helps the clients to become involved
with setting their goals. Participant #16 mentioned teaching tracking numbers as another
way of getting clients involved in goal setting. Participant #16 utilized smart filter to
help clients determine their goals. Another teaching method this participant employs is
peer coaching.
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Participant #17 described that business-coaching is concerned with identifying
and attaining business goals. Participant #17 believed that assisting the clients to think
independently is an effective means of being a coach. The participant also believed that it
is important to understand the clients and assist them. Participant #17 recalled that
becoming too dependent on tried and tested practices that eventually no longer work is an
ineffective practice as a coach. Participant #17 also mentioned that too much involvement
in clients personal lives is another ineffective practice of a business coach. Participant
#17 believed that being able to relate to clients on a personal level is important for
coaches. Participant #17 thought that it is necessary for coaches to pursue personal
growth constantly. Participant #17 thought that listening and being patient with the
clients should be an attribute of coaches. Participant # 17 identified that one of the
advantages of distance-learning is that it is less stressful for the coach. The participant
also believed that clients are more honest on the phone. The participant mentioned that
distance-learning is more effective than coaching clients face-to-face. Participant #17
thought that one of the disadvantages of a distance-learning model is that clients are too
detached and they are readier to lie about their results. Participant #17 shared that he
takes down notes in Word Perfect and prints those notes as part of his practice during a
coaching call. Participant #17 mentioned that he employs probing questions and
challenges the clients in order to help them become involved in goal setting. Participant
#17 also shared that he used listing appointments and set priority lists to help the clients
become involved in setting goals. Participant #17 utilized smart filter to facilitate clients
to determine goals. The participant shared that he clarifies what the client wants in order
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to determine goals. The participant also shared that the use of tools or materials is another
effective teaching method.
Participant #18 stated that business coaching is concerned with focusing on the
business and finance aspects. The participant thought the effective practice of business
coaching includes listening, giving encouragement to clients and telling the truth to them.
The participant thought that an ineffective practice in business coaching is being
insensitive to clients and making unfair assumptions and judgments about the clients.
Participant #18 believed that an effective business coach should be supportive of their
clients and should act as their facilitator. The participant identified that positive
characteristics of the distance-learning model include its efficiency, its capability to
expand the pool of clients, and that it assists coaches in becoming strategic and attentive
during communication. The participant also stated that the model creates a safe
environment for both the clients and coaches interactions with each other. The
participant felt that the negative in using a distance-learning model is that it does not
allow an opportunity to observe the nonverbal language of the clients. The participant
stated that he does not use any special technique in distance-learning. Participant #18
shared his method of engaging the clients in goal setting by asking probing questions and
discussing what the client wants. The participant also reported using probing questions in
determining the clients goals. Participant #18 shared repeating the same questions to the
clients to check on clients progress. The participant viewed this as another effective
teaching method that can be employed.
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Participant #19 stated that business-coaching is about focusing on business goals,
business plans and strategic planning. Participant #19 believed that helping clients
overcome their fears is an effective method of being a coach. The participant thought that
helping clients find the answer is another effective practice. Participant #19 mentioned
that too much follow up is an ineffective practice. Participant #19 thought that being
relational is an important behavior for coaches. Participant #19 identified that one
advantage of distance-learning is that it is less confrontational and safer. Participant #19
identified no disadvantage in distance-learning. Participant #19 shared that stressing the
importance of the goal to the clients is a way of involving the clients with goal setting.
Participant #19 thought that one way of determining the clients goals is to base them on
the clients preferences, ranging from general to more specific. Participant #19 shared
that another effective method, aside from goal setting, is to use other peoples
experiences.
Participant #20 described business-coaching as focusing on maximizing the
profits of the clients. Participant #20 believed that transforming people from being
reactive to being proactive is an effective practice in business-coaching environment. The
participant also mentioned that emphasizing accountability is another effective practice.
Asking questions is effective practice, according to Participant #20. Participant #20
thought that being involved in the personal lives of the clients and being insensitive are
ineffective practices as a coach. Becoming too friendly with clients is ineffective practice.
Participant #20 believed that being relational is an important behavior for coaches.
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Participant #20 identified that one advantage of distance-learning is that it is less
personal. Another advantage of distance-learning is that it is able to provide a less biased
perspective and allows more coverage. Participant #20 identified that one of the
disadvantages of distance-learning is that there is no opportunity to observe nonverbal
language. Participant #20 shared that stressing the importance of the goals to the clients
can help the clients get involved into setting their goals. Participant #20 thought that
starting with realistic goals is one of the ways of helping clients determine their goals.
Participant #20 reported that experiential teaching is another effective method aside from
goal setting.
Structural Composite Descriptions
Composite structural descriptions were constructed from the individual structural
descriptions to represent and describe how the participants perceived the essence of their
lived experiences. It provides a combined analysis of the meanings and essences of the
business coaches perceptions, thoughts, and feelings regarding the characteristics and
practices related to a business coaching environment.
Characteristics of business-coaching environments. Participants defined business
coaching as a practice related to implementation and development of their clients
business plans. A significant number of participants believed that a business coaching
environment is characterized by being able to achieve business goals. While other
characteristics were mentioned, the preceding two were central to the theme. Among the
other characteristics mentioned were the focus on business and financial aspects, the
structure of business coaching environments, the focus on accountability and the focus on
maximizing the profits.
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Effective practices in a business-coaching environment: The focus of the
participants beliefs was that the most effective practices are those that are goal-related.
In terms of those practices, based on the statements of the participants, the process starts
by identifying the clients goals and expectations and acting from that point. The
participants believed that it is effective to emphasize positive occurrences in order to
motivate their clients. Participants identified that an emphasis on these items is the
winning formula for the clients. Listening, providing encouragement and transforming
clients into better individuals emerged as effective practices in the business coaching
community.
Ineffective practices in a business-coaching environment: The ineffective
practices identified by the business coaches included being insensitive to clients and
being too involved in their personal lives. Being insensitive to clients included being
hurtful to clients, being too strict and too frank. Other constituents included stressing the
responsibilities, being too friendly, and fostering dependency on coaches and methods.
These are not considered central to the theme.
Behaviors present in an effective executive coach: The most efficient business
coaches, based on participants responses, are those that show reliability and support to
their clients. The participants noted the importance of the support of the coach in the
process of achieving the clients goals. Interpersonal skills were perceived as important in
becoming an effective business coach. According to the respondents, it is essential for
business coaches to possess good listening skills.
Positive characteristics of distance-learning model: The distance-learning model
is perceived by the participants as more effective than face-to-face coaching. Reasons for
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this effectiveness include that distance-learning may contribute to a perception of greater
emotional safety and that more output can be generated using the distance-learning
model. According to the participants, use of counseling embodies the most effective
creative process. A number of participants believed that a further strength is that a
distance-learning model embodies fewer distractions and tends to promote the
concentration of coaches and clients on the immediate task.
Disadvantages of distance-learning model: The lack of opportunity to observe the
nonverbal language is the perceived weakness of the distance-learning model. There was
an observation that the inability to see the body language has an effect on interaction with
clients. A detached relationship between coaches and clients is viewed as an effect of the
use of the distance-learning model. The participants believed that face-to-face coaching is
better at establishing relationships with clients. Participants observed that, within the
distance-learning model, there is less opportunity to supervise clients meticulously. The
participants note that this lack of supervision could foster inaccurate reporting about the
tasks completed.
Special techniques or practices used in distance-learning: This theme illustrates
that business coaches do not make use of any special techniques or practice as a function
of coaching over the phone, internet or other methods of distance-learning. One particular
reason is that there is no need to use a technique especially if a person is very systematic.
In addition, some participants were not able to share their thoughts on this. A lack of
response should not force the assumption that business coaches do not feel there is a
special technique or practice they should employ.
128
Adult teaching methods in involving clients with goal setting: This theme
underlines what the business coaches perceived to be the most efficient method in
engaging the clients with the process of goal setting. Most participants believed that the
starting point for this process is to let the clients determine what they want or what is
important to them. Questions, particularly what the clients dreams are, were asked to
keep the clients interested in goal setting. This theme also emphasizes the role of the
coaches and the need for them to work with the clients, especially with their goals.
Adult teaching methods of determining goals: The theme highlights the
importance of talking to the clients in order to help them determine their goals. By talking
with clients, participants were able to reexamine previously overlooked goals. The
participants also believed that it is efficient to start with general goals before identifying
the more specific goals. General goals pertain to business and financial goals while
specific goals refer to, for example, budgeting goals. Another major theme that emerged
was the executive coaches belief that the goals should be based on the clients
preferences. As reported by participants, goals set by the clients were more motivating
than goals dictated by coaches.
Other effective adult teaching methods aside from goal setting: The use of
experiential learning emerged as an effective teaching method, based on the participants
accounts. Learning through experience was not limited to the clients own experiences
but included the experience of peers. Coaches reported that the use of peers (co-clients)
stories was more effective than what coaches say to clients. A number of participants also
relied on other resources to teach their clients. Materials usually used are video clips,
work books and the coaching manual.
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Summary
Chapter 4 presented the findings from the semi-structured interviews of a
purposive sample of 20 business coaches from a firm in California. The interviews
explored the nature of the operations of a business coaching environment. The study
focused on identifying the particular behaviors of coaches in a distance-learning
environment. Chapter 4 articulated the data collection process, provided the
demographics of the study participants, arrayed the interview findings, and described and
analyzed the data using a phenomenological method. The interviews were conducted,
transcribed, and analyzed using thematic labels to achieve an understanding of the
phenomenon being studied. Nvivo 8 software aided in the coding of the recorded and
transcribed interviews to establish invariant constitutes. By analyzing the invariant
constituents, derived from the coded text of each transcribed interview, ten highly
relevant and significant themes emerged from the rich textured descriptions. Each theme
was analyzed for phenomenological essence substantiated by the lived experiences of the
business coaches.
The transcribed interviews were analyzed and used to create summarized
individual textural and structural descriptions of the lived experiences of the research
participants. Chapter 4 concluded with a composite structural definition that provided a
description of how the participants perceived their experiences as business coaches in the
firm. Chapter 5 provides the research conclusions and recommendations.
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CHAPTER 5: CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
phenomenon in a distance-learning environment. Chapter 4 provided a comprehensive
examination of coaches perceptions regarding coaching practice at a West Coast
Coaching firm that uses a distance-learning model. Themes and commonalities were
identified to gain a clear and accurate representation regarding how coaches interact with
clients, in a distance-learning environment, to assist their clients to achieve peak
performance. Additionally, various tables and figures were used to illustrate summary
information throughout the collection of the data. The objective of this study was to
produce data that identify the behavior of coaches in a distance-learning environment.
The intent of chapter 5 is to summarize the interpretation of the data findings
presented in chapter 4 and discuss the conclusions and implications discovered from the
literature review and data analysis. A review of emerged themes, study limitations, and
study significance are included. Chapter 5 concludes with recommendations for
educational leadership.
Research Question
The purpose of this qualitative phenomenological study was to explore lived
experiences of business coaches from California and their practice using a distancelearning model. In order to gain insight into the use of the distance-learning model, the
research participants were guided through a semi-structured interview process consisting
of several open-ended questions. The interview questions were derived in order to
support the central research questions.
131
The central research questions for this qualitative, phenomenological study were:
(a) what practices, characteristics, and behaviors are present in a business coaching
environment? (b) what practices, characteristics, and behaviors are present in a distancelearning business coaching environment?, and (c) are business coaches aware of and do
they use adult teaching methods? The central research questions guided this
phenomenological inquiry into the thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of the business
coaches, maintaining the focus of the research from the proposal stage through the
collection, analysis, and interpretation of the data. The research questions were phrased to
ensure that the study adheres to the tenets of phenomenology and focuses on the
participants perceptions of their personal experiences, as opposed to their opinions of
themes outside of their personal experience.
The major theoretical considerations of this study came from social learning
theory, which referred to the idea that people learn from one another by observing,
imitating, and modeling (Ormrod, 1999). Translating this in the context of the study, the
research examines the manner of the coaches responses to their environment in terms of
individual differences, as opposed to specific recommended teaching pedagogies. The
study intended to identify the techniques used by coaches and if this is different from
methods used by professional educators.
Rogers humanistic theories relied on an emphasis on the client. His personcentered therapy is based on the concept that therapists should avoid any external
evaluation by the counselor and fully accept the client. In coaching, this equates to
encouraging clients to find answers within themselves and in the end learn to solve
problems for themselves (Haan, 2006). Relating this to the study, participants report why
132
coaching is more effective than teaching. The proposed study emphasized the critical
relationship between a focus on a learner-centered approach and its manifestation in
coaching practice within the context of business coaching. In sum, the social learning
theory and humanistic theory offer an appropriate theoretical lens through which to view
the phenomenon of business coaching as a client or learner-centered practice.
Schlecter (2003) defined mentoring or coaching as a relationship between an
experienced individual and an inexperienced person. The mentor assumes a dominant
role toward the subject of the activities, which can be personal, direct, regulative or
contractual activities (Waldron, 1999). In the business setting, executive coaching was
used to refer to that specific type of coaching (Kilburg, 1996). However, even with the
prevailing use of coaching, more research is needed to provide scientific basis for the
development of theories and practices used in business coaching. This research endeavor
attempts to add to the existing literature as to the different practices employed by the
business coaches and its success or failures in addressing the needs of the clients.
Andragogy emphasizes that adults are self-directed and allows adults to make
decisions about the direction of their learning (Kearsley, 2004). However, there is some
acceptance of andragogy as the adult learning theory, but there remains debate about
whether this theory has helped or added to confusion about adult learning (Wilson, 2005).
Knowles outlined six principles about adult learners and from those principles, five
assumptions were derived about adult learners (McCoy, 2006).
Implications
Doctoral learners of the University of Phoenix are given the challenge to integrate
their knowledge and its applications to real world conditions. The University of Phoenix
133
School of Advanced Studies (SAS) scholarship, practice, and leadership model is
employed in the process and it contributes to the formation of the doctoral learners as
leaders in their chosen fields. The SAS mission is:
. . . To develop leaders who will create new models that will explain,
predict, and improve organizational performance. These leaders are
scholar-practitioners who conduct research as a foundation for creative
action, influence policy decisions, and guide diverse organizations through
effective decision-making.
The chosen research studies are used as a medium to challenge current beliefs
and to develop and build on the existing body of knowledge. To embark on such
endeavor, the process includes combining the experiences and beliefs with personal
insights that were based on formal knowledge. However, it is essential that objectivity be
maintained. Thus, there is an expectation that the learners have embodied the model at
the end of their undertaking and that this embodiment has helped them become better
decision makers.
This doctoral dissertation is the researchers method of internalizing the SAS
model and incorporating it in the fields of business coaching, distance-learning and adult
learning. The research illustrates what particular processes or relationships are more
suitable in the said fields. A better understanding of the three fields may be obtained from
the data gathered by the research.
There are implications to be derived from the analysis of the data and its relation
to the literature and the research question. The combination of participants response
produced ten thematic categories critical to the central question. These categories are: (1)
134
characteristics of business-coaching environments; (2) effective practices in a businesscoaching environment; (3) ineffective practices in a business-coaching environment; (4)
behaviors present in an effective executive coach; (5) positive characteristics of distancelearning model; (6) disadvantages of distance-learning model; (7) special techniques or
practices used in distance-learning; (8) adult teaching methods in involving clients with
goal setting; (9) adult teaching methods of determining goals; and (10) other effective
adult teaching methods aside from goal setting.
Implementation and development of business as the target of business coaches.
There is a variety of definitions concerning the nature of business coaching; this may be
related to the fact that it is relatively a new profession (Douglas & Morley, 2000). Grant
and Zackon (2004) discovered that there is a difference between small business coaches
and executive coaches concerning the target of the coaching practice, with the former
focusing on targeting sales and customer relationships while the latter focuses on
leadership development and team building.
However, the participants of the current study most clearly associated their
practice of business coaching with helping their clients with the growth of their
businesses. The participants believed that their main objective as business coaches is to
guide and motivate their clients to build a successful business. The coaching process also
involves strategic planning on how to approach clients plans for their businesses. A
focus on business goals is seen as a primary reason to work together as coach and clientlearner.
Goal-focusing is the best method for a business coach. Nagel (2008) described
goal setting as the first step in solutions based coaching. It is suggested that coaches help
135
clients focus on a previous positive outcome where a problem was solved. Locke and
Latham (1983) also identified goal setting in helping to clarify expectations, increase
productivity, and improve work quality. Interestingly, the participants mirrored these
observations as the winning formula for their clients. The coaches observed that it is
helpful for clients to identify their goals first and use them as a starting point for the
direction of progress. The participants also asked their clients to concentrate, not on the
obstacles they may encounter, but to think about a positive future. According to the
participants, this helps the clients to become motivated.
Reduction in insensitive practices. Most participants felt that insensitivity, usually
manifested as being too strict or frank or being hurtful to clients, will cause the clients to
be distrustful of coaches, or worse, could actually make the client leave the program.
Some participants reported an experience of being insensitive toward their clients and
how this has become a learning experience for them. Knowledge of specific practices or
behaviors that elicit a negative feedback from the clients is essential for the business
coaches so they can monitor themselves and their manner of interaction they have with
their clients. If these practices are eliminated, or at least reduced from the business
coaching environment, a positive effect on the productivity of the clients can be possibly
seen.
Preference for distance-learning than face-to-face interaction. The participants
perceived that the use of distance-learning is more effective than face-to-face
interactions. Participants equate this effectiveness with the emotional safety it tends to
embody and the ability to be more productive. Participants reported less distraction with
the use of a distance-learning model; the distance provides for better concentration on
136
tasks. The coaches felt that there is safety in the distance, and they also explained that the
learners themselves report the same way. Both coaches and clients felt that the distance
helps to lessen the emotional liability between them and makes the conversation less
confrontational and easier for the clients to disclose certain information or concerns.
Importance of observing nonverbal language. The main disadvantages of
distance-learning are the need for human contact and face-to-face teaching (Barrozo &
Cabranes, 2009). Participants generally agreed that it is essential to be able to see the
nonverbal language, particularly the body language, in order to communicate effectively
with clients. Coaches and clients both experience difficulties in being transparent with
each other. The participants reported instances of miscommunication between them and
the clients. Another difficulty reported was in coaches and clients forming a connection
with each other. This lack of connect may occur because some clients show hesitation in
disclosing certain information. The clients may be reluctant to disclose because they feel
they do not know their coaches well enough. This non-disclosed information might have
been useful in the coaching process. The distance-learning model may be effective in
coaching clients, but it may not be effective in its ability to foster relationships between
coaches and clients.
Client participation as an important factor in goal setting. One of the six
principles exhibited by adult learners, as outlined by Knowles, is that adult learners
usually require a sense of responsibility for their own decisions (McCoy, 2006). From the
data in the current study, coaches emphasize the importance of the role of the clients in
the coaching process particularly with regard to goal setting. The participants let their
clients determine their own goals. The participants pointed out that clients are motivated
137
by goals they have set for themselves. Therefore, the participants believed that, even if
the clients are reluctant initially, it is important to encourage clients to determine their
own goals. This emphasis on the clients own determination of goals reinforces the idea
that coaches only have a secondary role in the coaching process; the client or learner is
performing the central role. This is an essential characteristic of andragogy in which
adults are self-directed (Kearsley, 2004) and the process is learner-directed.
Experiences as a learning tool for adults. Among the six principles of adult
learners, the use of experience distinguishes adult learners from children (McCoy, 2006).
The business coaches interviewed in this current study believed that the knowledge they
impart to their clients is not limited to the coaching manuals. Most of the participants
believed in the power of using experiences, both those of their clients and the clients
peers, as the best teaching method for their adult learners. When participants give clients
accounts of other peoples experiences, they pay more attention and engage more in the
conversation. The participants reported that accounts of experiences of the clients peers
are more effective than the coaches own experiences. The participants reported
experiences, especially accounts about the success of others, are a strong source of
learning.
Limitations
The scope of the study included a sample of 20 business coaches representing a
corporation in the state of California. There is a possibility that the variable nature of the
business environment or economic conditions may have influenced attitudes of the
participants. In order to minimize the possible effects of economic conditions, the
research was restricted to assessing coaching effectiveness and no data was collected
138
regarding the profitability of the firm. Coaching success was not assessed in terms of the
financial health of the corporation used in the study.
Moustakas (1994) contended that phenomenological studies could never fully
account for any phenomenon. A phenomenological study only captures the perceptions
and experiences at a certain point in time and space:
The essences of any experience are never totally exhausted. The
fundamental textural-structural synthesis represents the essences at a
particular time and place from the vantage point of an individual
researcher following an exhaustive imaginative and reflective study of the
phenomenon. (Moustakas, p. 100)
The delimitations of the proposed study included confining the research to a study
of coaching techniques and the adult learning model. Participants from other parts of the
country or world were not included in the research. The focus of this current study was
only on business coaching. Coaching in general, or related to other fields such as sports,
is outside the scope of this current research study.
Recommendations
Further study could be performed on the coaching process using a variety of
quantitative tools testing coaching and adult learning. Knowles (2005) developed a
helpful inventory for teaching practitioners that can provide some insight into their
attitudes towards adult learning and the processes involved in it. The Personal HRD
Style Inventory is a learning instrument designed to help you assess the assumptions that
underlie your teaching/training activities (p. 293). The inventory consists of thirty pairs
of statements. The trainer responds to each statement with a numeric response that
139
accords with the degree of agreement with each statement. The results present whether
the trainer is pedagogically-oriented or andragogically-oriented on six components: (1)
Learning Orientation, (2) Learning Design, (3) How People Learn, (4) Learning Methods,
(5) Program Development, and (6) Program Administration.
The Principles of Adult Learning Scale (PALS) is a quantitative tool designed to
test adult learning. The scale measures a teachers teaching style and its congruency with
collaborative teaching-learning mode. PALS consists of 44 items, each answerable using
a 6-point Likert scale, with 5 corresponding to an answer of Always and 0 for Never.
The result provides an insight into whether the trainer or respondent is either learnercentered, if the score is high, or teacher-centered, if the score is low. The interpretation of
the results is based on seven factors: (1) Learner- centered activities, (2) Personalizing
Instruction, (3) Relating to Experience, (4) Assessing Student Needs, (5) Climate
Building, (6) Participation in the Learning Process, and (7) Flexibility for Personal
Development (Conti, 1979).
It was determined that using these tools in addition to the qualitative survey was
beyond the scope of this study. Thus, similar research, but with a quantitative design, is
recommended.
The current research study concerns a specific area in California; other
researchers might study other companies, from other parts of the country or the world.
Such a new study might validate similar perceptions and attitudes as the current study on
business coaching, adult learning methods and distance-learning model.
Wang and Kreysa (2006) explored the teaching strategies of academic instructors
using distance-learning in universities in China, particularly in Beijing and Shanghai. The
140
instructors from these universities employ Western educational methods, however,
instructors are resistant to using a collaborative mode of instruction.
The findings are that while Chinese distance education instructors do utilize
Western andragogical methods such as personalizing instruction, relating to
experience, assessing student needs, building climate and participating in the
learning process, they view themselves merely as providers of knowledge
rather than as facilitators of knowledge. They oppose the Western
collaborative mode of instruction. Further, their distance teaching is
characterized by rigidity and lack of sensitivity to the individual learner (p.
18).
Wang and Kreyza suggested that Chinese instructors might use the Western
model in distance-learning in order to facilitate a more learner-centered environment.
The use of a distance-learning model and its efficacy may be dependent on the
culture in which it is applied. It is recommended that further research be performed to
study the use of distance-learning in other cultures, particularly Eastern cultures. In
addition, extending a research study to other geographical locations would provide data
with which to compare and validate the results of this current research study.
More research is needed to explore the idea that a distance-learning model is more
effective than face-to-face coaching in the context of business coaching. A comparative
study on the use of a distance-learning model and face-to-face coaching (or the traditional
method of coaching) might explore any difference between the two, for example, on the
expected output of clients.
More research that might produce a discussion of the impact of goal setting on the
clients output or performance, in the context of business coaching, is recommended.
141
There are studies confirming the positive effect of goal setting in the success of business.
The use of goal setting as a method in business coaching might be further explored.
Summary
This chapter attempted to weave together the various parts of the study into a
discussion about the lived experiences of the practices of business coaches. A restatement
of the research question established a context for the incorporation of the descriptions of
the participants responses into the theoretical framework from the literature review. An
explanation of the possible implications of the study followed. A series of possible
recommendations for further research was listed.
142
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APPENDIX A: APPROVAL FOR USE OF HUMAN SUBJECTS
157
158
159
APPENDIX B: APPROVAL FOR USE OF PREMISES
160
From: Chief Financial Officer
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 15:41
To: Henry, Leroy R CTR CNIC HQ, N63
Subject: DISSERTATION
Leroy, we would be happy to allow you to continue to complete your dissertation. The 2 conditions remain that:
1. It doesn't interfere with the work of any Buffini & Company employees.
2. Prior to you submitting your dissertation to anyone you must first submit it to Mike Taylor so that he may approve
it. The right to review and approve is very important to us.
Hopefully those 2 conditions remain acceptable to you, and if so good luck with the completion of the project.
Chief Financial Officer

XXX & Company
T xxx xxx xxxx ext. xxxx
F xxx xxx xxx
xxx@xxx.com
www.xxx.com
From: Chief Financial Officer
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:59 PM
To: XXX
Cc: xxx xxx; xxx xxx
Subject: RE: Dissertation
Leroy, sorry it took us quite awhile to answer you on this. Thanks for you patience.
We are ok with it provided that:
1.
It doesnt interfere with the work of yourself or any of the other Servant Leaders
2.
Prior to you submitting your dissertation to anyone you must first submit it to Mike Taylor so that he may
approve it. The right to review and approve is very important to us.
Hopefully those 2 conditions are acceptable, and if so good luck with the project.
Chief Financial Officer

XXX & Company
T xxx xxx xxxx ext. xxxx
F xxx xxx xxx
xxx@xxx.com
www.xxx.com
161
APPENDIX C: INTRODUCTORY LETTER
162
Dear (name of coach):
It would be my great honor if you would agree to participate in a survey I am
conducting for the purposes of research for my dissertation in Educational Leadership at
the University of Phoenix. The research will involve a short interview at your place of
business, or over the phone, or at a location of your convenience, and last approximately
one half hour. Participation is confidential and private and your name will not be used in
any manner in the results.
The purpose of this study is to produce results that illuminate the coaching
phenomenon in a distance-learning environment. The objective of this study is to produce
data that identify the behavior of coaches in a distance-learning environment. This study
may contribute to the development of a practical coaching guide that could be
implemented in other coaching firms or in businesses, industry, government, or higher
education institutions that use phone-based coaching or mentoring to improve
performance.
If you would like to participate, please let me know by sending me a letter to my business
at the above address, or a phone call at (xxx) xxx-xxxx.
If you have any questions at any time prior to or during the research you may contact me
at (xxx) xxx-xxxx. Your participation is entirely voluntary and you can withdraw at any
time.
I greatly appreciate your willingness to participate. There is little research available about
business coaching in a distance environment, and this research study will add new
insights into the body of knowledge that have potential use to members of the coaching
industry and those involved in adult education.
Thank you for your participation.
LeRoy Henry
Doctoral Candidate
163
APPENDIX D: INFORMED CONSENT FORM
164
Dear________________,
I am a student at the University of Phoenix working toward a Doctor of Education
in Educational Leadership (Ed.D.). I am conducting a research study entitled Business
coaching and adult education in a distance-learning environment. The purpose of the
research study is to explore the practices of coaches in the worlds of business, sport, and
music and to find techniques, methods, and skills that can be used in education in general
to foster accountability and assist students achieve their maximum potential.
Your participation will involve a taped interview process where you will be asked
open-ended questions. Participation is voluntary. If you choose to withdraw from the
study at any time, your interview or interviews will be excluded from the study and there
will be no loss of benefit or penalty to you. The results of the study will be published but
no participants will be identified by name. The researcher will maintain a list of names
but use codes to identify subjects to maintain anonymity.
This research poses no foreseeable risk to any of the participants in the study.
By signing this form, I acknowledge that I understand the nature of the study, the
potential risks to me as a participant, and the means by which my identity will be kept
confidential. My signature on this form also indicates that I am 18 years old or older, and
that I give my permission to serve voluntarily as a participant in the study described.
Signature of
participant_______________________________________Date______________
Signature of
researcher_______________________________________Date_______________
165
APPENDIX E: INTERVIEW PROTOCOL
166
Preview
Notes for the Interviewer
1. Interview the business coach.

2. Tape-record the interviews if permission is granted
3. Interview in a neutral setting.
4. Each interview should last 15-20 minutes.
5. Coaches should have been in the role at least 1 year.
6. Conversations and/or notes from coaches were not attributed by name.
Interview methodology:
The interviews used a customized approach allowing for a 360-degree investigation.
Concentrate on high points and low points from past critical situations.
Recall and articulate in detail what the coach said and did in critical situations.
Recall and articulate what the coachs thoughts were and emotions felt during the critical
situations.
1. Probe and follow-up questions to stimulate rich data.
2. Three critical situations will be covered (two high and one low).
3. Key topics the interviewer about all critical situations:
Details leading to the Situation (people involved, etc)
1. Time-table for the situation
2. The coachs thoughts
3. The coachs emotions
4. The coachs perceptions of the involved persons emotions
167
5. The coachs actions/behavior
6. Conversation between coach and other people
7. Situation conclusion
8. Coachs evaluation of his/her behavior(s)
9. Possible alternative behavior the coach recommends.
The Interviewer will use a Semi Structured Question Design.
1. A predetermined set of 15-20 questions pertaining coach teaching styles.
2. All predetermined questions will be the same for respondents
3. A single page form requesting demographic and job/career-related data is to be
completed prior to the interview.
a. Interview Package
b. Demographic page
c. Interview Number:______
Name of Participant: _______________________________________________
Interview Method: __________________________________________________
Location of Interview: _______________________________________________
Date: ______________________________
Start Time: __________________________
Finish Time: _________________________
Notes:
__________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
168
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
Part III
Components of the Interview
1. Components of the Interview
a. Introduction (5-10 minutes)
b. Inform the Participant about the interview
c. Create a relaxed environment
d. Dialogue
Question: Have you received my introductory correspondence explaining my
research and the format that will be used?
Question: Are there any questions?
__________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________
2. Explain the purpose of the interview
The purpose of this interview is get a better understanding of coach effectiveness,
the characteristic and behaviors that best represent an effective coach from a few
different perspectives. During the time we have together, I would like to get an
169
understanding of your experiences and observations of what you consider effective and
ineffective by recalling specific situations.
3. Ask permission to record interview
With your authorization, I would like to audio tape record our discussion to get an
inclusive record of what is said, since the notes I take will not be as comprehensive as I
will require. No one in the firm will listen to or read anything you say to me. Only I will
have access to the records the research end result will describe what you and others have
said predominantly in summation. No responses will be ascribed to you by name.
Hello, my name is XXX and I am a doctoral candidate at the University of
Phoenix working on a Doctor of Educational Leadership degree. My research topic
concerns Business Coaching and Adult Education. I would like to ask you to volunteer
and answer several questions regarding your coaching practice. The ten open-ended
questions are intended to obtain a view of coaching from your perspective. The interview
time will be approximately fifteen minutes. If you agree to volunteer and participate in
the research process, please sign the informed consent page and confidentially agreement.
Would you give me permission to tape the interview?
Do you have any questions before we begin?
Interview questions
1. Coaching
a. What is your definition of coaching?
b. How do you feel coaching differs from teaching?
c. How would you define business coaching?
170
d. What preparation did you have to be a business coach? (Goode, 2007, p.
190)
e. Describe the coaching process.
f. Tell me about your experiences coaching.
g. Tell me about things that you have done as a coach that works well?
h. Tell me about things that you have done as a coach that does not work
well?
2. Adult teaching concepts
a. What formal or coach specific education did you receive to prepare you
to be a business coach? (Goode, 2007, p. 190)
b. Did you have other, less formal training?
c. Could you give me examples of how this training prepared you for this job
as a business coach? (Goode, 2007, p. 190)
d. Tell me about how you get your coaching clients involved in goal setting?
e. What do you do if clients are sometimes unwilling or unable to set goals?
f. How are results affected by a clients success in goal setting?
g. If have to set goals for your clients, how do determine the goals?
h. Other than goal setting are there any techniques that you use regularly to
teach your clients?
i. Your situation involves distance-learning; describe how that differs from
in person coaching.
j. Are there things that are improved because of the distance-learning
model?
171
k. Are there things that suffer because of the distance-learning model?
3. Distance-learning
a. What would you do differently if you had face-to-face coaching clients?
b. Are there things that would be better done in an in person environment?
c. Are there special techniques you use because you are coaching over the
phone and via e-mail/Internet?
Please state what a typical coaching call is like.
Thank you.
Research Question 1 (RQ1) What practices, characteristics, and behaviors are
present in an business coaching environment?
Research Question 2 (RQ2) What practices, characteristics, and behaviors are
present in a distance-learning business coaching environment?
Research Question 3 (RQ3) Are business coaches aware of and do they use adult
teaching methods?
Interview matrix
Coaching practices
a. What is your definition
of coaching? (RQ1)
b. How do you feel
coaching differs from
teaching? (RQ3)
c. How would you define
business coaching?
Distance-learning
a. What would you do
Adult learning
a. What formal or coach
differently if you had
specific education did
face-to-face coaching
you receive to prepare
clients? (RQ2)
you to be an executive
b. Are there things that

would be better done in
an in person
coach? (Goode, 2007,

p. 190) (RQ3)
b. Did you have other, less
172
(RQ1)
d. What preparation did
environment? (RQ2)
c. Are there special
formal training? (RQ3)

c. Could you give me
you have to be an
techniques you use
examples of how this
executive coach?
because you are
training prepared you
(Goode, 2007, p. 190)
coaching over the phone
for this job as an
(RQ1)
and via e-mail/Internet?
executive coach?
(RQ2)
(Goode, 2007, p. 190)
e. Describe the coaching

process. (RQ1)
f. Tell me about your
(RQ3)
d. Tell me about how you
experiences coaching.
get your coaching
(RQ1, 2, & 3)
clients involved in goal
g. Tell me about things

that you have done as a
setting? (RQ3)
e. What do you do if
coach that works well?
clients are sometimes
(RQ1, 2, & 3)
unwilling or unable to
h. Tell me about things

that you have done as a
set goals? (RQ3)

f. How are results affected
coach that does not
by a clients success in
work well? (RQ1, 2, &
goal setting? (RQ3)
3)
g. If have to set goals for

your clients, how do
determine the goals?
(RQ3)
173
h. Other than goal setting
are there any techniques
that you use regularly to
teach your clients?
(RQ3)
i. Your situation involves
distance-learning;
describe how that
differs from in person
coaching. (RQ2)
j. Are there things that are
improved because of the
distance-learning
model? (RQ2)
k. Are there things that
suffer because of the
distance-learning
model? (RQ2)
174
APPENDIX F: DEMOGRAPHIC SURVEY INSTRUMENT
175
DEMOGRAPHIC SURVEY
This survey was designed to collect information pertaining to coach

demographics. Data collected from this survey will be used for dissertation research
purposes only.
Please review and complete all questions listed on the survey. This survey will
take no longer than 2 minutes to fill out. Once you have completed the survey, place it in
the envelope that you were provided and return to the researcher. Thank you for your
help and support!
1. Please indicate your area of expertise.
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
2. How many years do you have you served as a business coach?
a) Less than three years
b) 3 to 5 years
c) 6-10 years
d) More than 10 years
3. How many years of experience do you have in coaching either as a business
coach?
a) 0-1
b) 2-5 years
c) More than 5 years
4. Please indicate your age range.
a) 25-35
176
b) 36-45
c) 46-55
d) 56-65
e) 66 +
177
APPENDIX G: INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS
178
PARTICIPANT #1
INTERVIEWER: Whats your definition of coaching?
PARTICIPANT #1: I would say we are designed to bring out the best in people. So I
think through the use of, not just guidance, my definition of coaching is pretty much
quantifying what peoples goals or desires are and trying to help them move the obstacles
out of the way that keep them from obtaining those goals.
INTERVIEWER: So this is different from teaching, you think? Did you have some
experience teaching?
PARTICIPANT #1: None. No. Actually, Im the anti-teacher. I do not like formal
education or training whatsoever. Im more of an on-hands kind of person. So this really
appeals to me. But coaching is different from teaching in my mind. Teaching is a
formalized classroom with somebody coming with a certain set of expectations to learn a
specific set of knowledge within a parameter of whatever the class perspective is all
about. For me, coaching differs in the fact that the teacher wont sit down with you
usually and help you overcome your specific challenges. Like if somebody has a reading
disability, usually the teacher is not going to sit down with you and help you overcome
that disability. Whereas, a coach is going to try to make sure that you identify that issue
thats between you and your goal and they help you overcome it either themselves or if,
say Im not a reading expert, Ill try to make sure you get hooked up with a reading
expert.
INTERVIEWER: We are trying to get a definition of right here we do business
coaching; so what do you think that is?
179
PARTICIPANT #1: Youre familiar with the Five Circles that we teach, having had
some exposure to us. We used to be Five Circle coaches and recently we have shifted to
business coaching and how that showed up in my experience on phone calls and actually
helping somebody at work was it became then that the focus was the business before it
could float around into anything from, Who is God?, to My husband doesnt hear me,
or whatever. But now its a business focus so you only tend to focus on those other
things as they show up in somebodys life as an obstacle. In other words, if its getting in
the way of actually helping implement and develop a business plan and follow through on
that business plan.
INTERVIEWER: So theres been a recent shift in the company to business coaching and
thats been market-driven?
PARTICIPANT #1: Right, its like we couldnt stay in the other circles if people were
going to ignore the business circles, we would be out of business.
INTERVIEWER: So, did you have some preparation for this? You mentioned you
worked in construction.
PARTICIPANT #1: My preparation for this includes being a marine for four years, so
that gave me some leadership skills and also too some of lifes experience in other parts
of the country, and exposures to different cultures and seeing the patterns that people are
people no matter where you are. I think that helped me a little bit. I had about a nineyear run in construction of which about three or four of those years I had to run my own
company myself. So I was aware of the pitfalls of what would happen to a company
whenever somebody did not have a lead-generation system in some of the business
principles that we teach. I was also a manager in a retail outlet store for a period of time
180
which gave me some insights into working with and managing people and running a
business from not being an owner; you know, the last word; to learning that middle
ground and how to keep your bosses happy and at the same time how to keep your
employees productive and happy too. So thats pretty much how I got prepped for this.
INTERVIEWER: So I know there are some specific processes here at this company, but
just in general, could you describe the coaching process?
PARTICIPANT #1: Are you talking about when Im on the phone with somebody or
INTERVIEWER: Not that specific, like if you are coaching football or, you know,
coaching something other than business coaching, just the general coaching process;
describe how you would apply what you know here to coaching.
PARTICIPANT #1: Well, I think the most important thing that Ive learned here is to be
an active listener, hearing what the person is really saying and shutting up and not having
an opinion before they have even finished speaking. How would I apply that in other
areas of coaching? I probably listen more than I would have been inclined to in the past
because a lot of times their expectation, even in this role that I play as a business coach, is
that Im going to have the answer. And the truth is there is no way a human being can
have all the answers for a problem somebody is going to run into, especially for that
individual themselves. So, by listening to what the challenge is, at least I can help
narrow down the focus to what the true challenge is versus what maybe is coming out of
their mouth. You know, listen to the underlying line of the story so to speak. Thats
probably the biggest thing that Ive picked up here in learning to be a good coach is to
learn to be a good listener.
181
INTERVIEWER: Im trying to get some anecdotes about coaching the way that we hear
at the events. So you probably have some anecdotes from some different folks you have
worked with, i.e., a realtor in Nebraska, snowing all day and he was giving people
sunglasses.
PARTICIPANT #1: So basically, you are just looking for some way in which Ive
helped somebody.
INTERVIEWER: Just a funny story, whatever. Just like a big win for you.
PARTICIPANT #1: This may not be what youre looking for, but one of my first
coaching calls was with a gentleman named xxxxx. Youve probably heard his name.
He was one of our clients and we had systems and stuff; lets just face it, our training
systems on training somebody on how to be a coach werent really in place then. My
training consisted of listening to xxxxx do about nine fifteen-minute coaching calls
telling them what to do. And it was the experience of coming to the end of yourself.
Basically, I said, Okay xxxxx, this is whats next. He said, Well Ive already done
that. And I had no place else to go with him because I was trying to show up and
thinking that I had the answers and I had to tell xxxxx what to do. And so I finally had to
come out and admit, Xxxxx, Im going to have to ask xxxxx whats next. And that was
a personal experience that probably allowed me to become a better coach.
INTERVIEWER: And his answer was you probably needed to listen to your client a
little more; right?
PARTICIPANT #1: Actually no. xxxxxs really not designed to be a coach. He is the
guy that tends to have all the answers on knowing what to do next. Thank goodness he is
usually the kind of guy thats right about it. But, as far as the coaching process goes; yes,
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that was the answer, to listen more and also to not think that I always had all the answers.
So that was a big breakthrough for both xxxxx and me. Because he and I were able to,
instead of it being some big, Oh Ive failed as a coach for this man, he and I were able
to have a conversation like, You know what I went and found out this, that and the
other, and now this conversation, because of the length of our relationship did not occur
for about a year afterwards. You know, like, Hey, Ive got to say this, that and the
other. Its like I didnt know where to go and blah, blah, blah. And youre not supposed
to. You know, xxxxxs one of those people that after knowing him for 13 years now,
hes my friend. And so that was a big winner in the coaching relationship aspect that
good coaching is actually about a relationship. Its not about counseling somebody that
you have all the answers. Its not about being a business consultant just by itself. Being
a good coach is having a trust relationship with somebody who knows that your only
agenda is to help them succeed.
INTERVIEWER: So other than the things weve talked about is there something youve
done as a coach that works well?
PARTICIPANT #1: That works well? Listening, asking more questions. My biggest
ability is whenever I can ricochet and show somebody about their numbers. Whenever I
can get somebody to track what they are doing. Just like here, youre trying to see
patterns. Youre trying to find the common boiler plate, shove it off the side, and come
up with the exceptions. Thats what I can tend to do with numbers, just like I can show
somebody their normal patterns, I can show then connections that most folks dont tend
to make, especially in our industry where we work with a lot of folks who tend to be
more relationally driven than more pragmatic numbers side and even if they are
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pragmatic numbers side, if they are not so well organized that they spend time working
on their business, they tend to miss some of the subtleties. A lot of times what I do is get
people to slow down long enough to look at their life. So thats my schtick.
INTERVIEWER: So have you done something that didnt work well?
PARTICIPANT #1: Oh yeah. I tried to show up a couple of years ago when things
started getting kind of funky as far as the industry and stuff like that. I tried to go all
boot camp and become that guy again. I had forgotten the lesson that its not about me
having all the answers. I tried to become real strict and rigid as far as following my
format instead of listening to my people and trying to meet them where their needs were.
I found out that that doesnt work well at all and I lost probably about 20% of my client
base. It was a good lesson.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have a formal education?
PARTICIPANT #1: Im a high school graduate and a student at the University of Hard
Knocks.
INTERVIEWER: But you didnt have some formal training to get you ready for this job
other than the Marine Corp.
PARTICIPANT #1: Thirteen years ago, there was no formal training.
INTERVIEWER: But you had the Marine Corp leadership training.
PARTICIPANT #1: I had the Marine Corp leadership training and I had gone through
business ownership; so Ive had a lot of practical exercise.
INTERVIEWER: So the less formal training youve had is as a construction contracting
type of guy and you get training here all the time. Can you give me some examples of
how any of the training youve had has helped you as a coach?
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PARTICIPANT #1: The best training that Ive run into not only of course systems
training, you know a sense of being, what are our systems, specific to the real estate
market, has been helpful. But the best training has been whenever other coaches have
shared experiences of what they have run into and what worked well for them.
INTERVIEWER: Thats something other people have mentioned too?
PARTICIPANT #1: Yes, the practical exercise as far as the coaching aspect of it. Thats
the elusive part.
INTERVIEWER: So you have your clients set some goals. How do you get them
involved in that?
PARTICIPANT #1: Usually, I try to get them to go back to what they want or where,
maybe in the past, theyve been. I try to identify a spot. You know thats the hardest
part. I get them to think about a picture. Since some folks cant just write a goal, I have
them describe what a week that theyve enjoyed looked like. And then we can usually
backtrack and put some tangibles in place of that.
INTERVIEWER: So you have some clients that arent willing to set goals, right? And
what do you do with them?
PARTICIPANT #1: Well, I make a decision whether or not Im willing to work with
someone who has no goals. I usually am if they are willing to try to do it. Most folks
dont want to be belligerent and just not set goals. For some reason, their head just cant
get around the idea of it. So usually by going back to that place of having been and
thinking about what their life looked like whenever they were doing well or enjoying
themselves, a lot of times the Heritage Profile that we use helps. Its like so whenever
you were enjoying yourself to the fullest what did your week look like? If we could put
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some things in place that would assure that you got more of these types of weeks, would
that be worthwhile to you?
INTERVIEWER: So if you have somebody thats setting goals, do you see that the
results are affected by their willingness to set the goals?
PARTICIPANT #1: Absolutely.
INTERVIEWER: So most of the people that are getting good results have been the ones
that are setting goals?
PARTICIPANT #1: Yes. Let me just qualify that with realistic goals. Too many times
we will sit there and hitch our goals to somebody elses goal cart.
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes you find yourself in the role of backing down the goal
to something thats more achievable than what they may have come up with on their
own?
PARTICIPANT #1: Absolutely. Thats a fine line to walk because you dont want to
discourage somebody. Great things can happen when somebody sets a really audacious
goal, but you also want to put a parameter on it. So if you dont get this, what would be
your second best?
INTERVIEWER: One of the writers in coaching has said, Visualize this impossible
future.
PARTICIPANT #1: In 13 years of coaching, Ive found that works with a certain type of
person and can totally devastate another type of person. You know if theyre not very
gracious when they fail.
INTERVIEWER: So do you ever set goals for the client?
PARTICIPANT #1: From time to time, if they are struggling.
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INTERVIEWER: How do you determine what those goals are? Besides asking more
vague questions about their family and things like that.
PARTICIPANT #1: Other than that, its like I tend to ask probing questions and stuff
and if they are still having a hard time verbalizing it themselves, I usually ask them if it
would be okay and if they think this would be a good goal for them. Then theyll tell me
yes or no. Then I ask them if they are willing to commit to that goal. You can sit there
and push and push and push, but I would say that less than 5% of the population Ive
worked with anyway tend to respond well to a boot camp kind of mentality.
INTERVIEWER: So other than goals, you are involved in some teaching, you have
some systems in place here. Do you have any teaching techniques?
PARTICIPANT #1: I find that the facilitation types of teaching methods works; you
know, whenever you can get a group synergistic about something, starting off with a
topic, and then expounding on it for a few minutes.
INTERVIEWER: So you do some group coaching?
PARTICIPANT #1: Not group coaching. Im not talking about groups so much
necessarily; Im talking about whenever Ive been given the responsibility to do training
of any sort, I find that they are much more interested in listening to each other than they
are of listening to me. And if I can bring something out that their peers have learned they
are much more likely to listen to a peer than say a professor.
INTERVIEWER: So you might do this with a group of realtors too?
PARTICIPANT #1: Yeah, eventually. Thats what the group coaching is probably going
to turn into.
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INTERVIEWER: So this is a distance-learning situation. Tell me about how thats
different than if you were in person.
PARTICIPANT #1: You know, Ive thought about that over the years and I have
actually done some face-to-face coaching and I found myself more conscious and less
able to focus.
INTERVIEWER: You mean self-conscious?
PARTICIPANT #1: Yes, exactly, and how Im appearing instead of how Im sounding.
I mean Ive done so much work over the phone that some of my visual clues in my body
and also too Im more interested instead of listening and focused on listening that Im
trying to visually see whats going on and its almost like sensory deprivation. You
know, its like once you get to where you just have hearing youve got more acute
hearing like a blind person. And I find that is how it has impacted me over the course of
the last 13 years because I was actually apprehensive when they started going to the
video cameras and that sort of thing. All of a sudden, I started focusing more on me and
how I was being seen.
INTERVIEWER: So that was something the company was doing, implementing the
video cameras and doing some group coaching.
PARTICIPANT #1: Or even when I was having one-on-ones with somebody that
popped by the office here, I found myself being less effective.
INTERVIEWER: So there are things that suffer from the distance?
PARTICIPANT #1: Yes. When youve got somebody that tends to be analytical in their
thinking and likes to process things through, theres silence on the other end; whereas
visually, I could see that you were thinking or writing a note. I have to verbally cue it up,
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like, Hey did you get that? Or, Hey, what are you doing right now? So there is an
element of that.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had face-to-face clients, are there other things besides that
that you would do differently?
PARTICIPANT #1: You know what, one of the things that the video element, the faceto-face element in our case, since we are distance coaching professionals, is being able to
tangibly show somebody something versus verbally describing it, its going to be a much
more powerful element.
INTERVIEWER: Is there any special technique you use because youre using the phone,
the Internet and e-mail?
PARTICIPANT #1: I find that the special technique I use is that I have focused on
learning to modulate my voice a little bit better. Ive got the air traffic controller, its like
Ive found that over the course of the years if I can make it something thats more
attractive to people thats something that I havent consciously focused on but I have
found myself refining over time.
INTERVIEWER: If you have them face-to-face, is there something you think would be
better?
PARTICIPANT #1: Yes, when I want to show someone how to do a budget, I could just
grab a pad of paper and show them, for crying out loud, or walk them through it on the
computer.
INTERVIEWER: So lastly, could you just walk me through a typical coaching session; I
know there isnt really a typical one, but what a typical coaching call would be like.
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PARTICIPANT #1: First thing I try to do is show up with a lot of high energy on the
phone call. I mean, nobody is going to want to listen to Eeyore, i.e., How you doing?
Whats going on?
INTERVIEWER: What did you say? Eeyore?
PARTICIPANT #1: Eeyore, you know, from Winnie the Pooh. Hes just that negative
kind of guy. So I try to show up with some high energy, check in with them, see where
their head is at, see if there is any element in their life that is distracting them right now
before we can get down to business, that maybe I can throw a band-aid on for a little bit;
you know, settle them back down and get them to focus on the issue which is their
business. Sometimes a call takes 25 minutes to slap a band-aid on but thats whats going
on in their life and thats what they need right now. If you can at least get them to focus
back on the business a little bit then youve done your job for the day. A lot of times a
victory for me is shortening the length of time somebody goes sideways over something
in their life. If before in their life they had had a week where they had been distracted by
something and all of a sudden Ive shortened it down to two days, Ive just given them
five days back.
INTERVIEWER: So thats the beginning of the call; the middle of the call, whats that?
PARTICIPANT #1: The middle of the call is usually getting down to brass tacks,
looking over some of the number things. You know, looking at straight-up goals instead
of just the business aspect. We are trying to determine where we are on each goal. You
are doing a check-in.
INTERVIEWER: And then how does the call wrap up?
PARTICIPANT #1: The call usually wraps up with confirming some action steps.
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INTERVIEWER: Do you have a set number of action steps you do?
PARTICIPANT #1: Not really. Its like, at least one but no more than three. Its like
you start getting it and three seems to be an optimal number. Many times people struggle
with just one and some folks think that fewer than five doesnt measure up.
INTERVIEWER: So you have clients that get as many as five action steps.
PARTICIPANT #1: Ive had some clients where five would just be getting started.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well thats it. We are all done.
PARTICIPANT #2
INTERVIEWER: So what is your definition of coaching, not the company?
PARTICIPANT #2: I would say we are designed to bring out the best in people. So I
think through the use of direction, guidance, and the level of support, not just business
coaches but any coach is designed to bring out the best and the highest level of
performance.
INTERVIEWER: So you would be doing this if you were coaching tennis or whatever?
PARTICIPANT #2: The accountability, the direction, the outside support, looking at
okay, you know heres what Im seeing. You know, what are you doing? Heres what I
see. You could be doing something a little different.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any experience with teaching? Do you see that as being
different than coaching?
PARTICIPANT #2: I did a lot of training which I guess would be similar to teaching but
it was like on a larger scale in that I was training groups and groups of people. Actually I
wanted to be a teacher when I was in high school. When I saw how much they made, I
wanted to go out on my own. I wanted to make a little more than that so then I went on
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the path of where I did. Its training, definitely training. TeachingI would say yes, but
training, more so.
INTERVIEWER: What do you think business coaching is?
PARTICIPANT #2: Its coaching but more pinpointed on the business aspect of it. It
obviously goes into the financial because our business is usually how we make our
money. I think it kind of correlates into the financial aspect but just everything you
would do in a normal coaching relationship but pinpointed on their business and how to
grow it.
INTERVIEWER: So elaborate on that financial aspect.
PARTICIPANT #2: You know, I think that unless youre independently wealthy youre
doing business to make money and I think that does add a different element to the
business aspect of it because if its just about the business alone, sometimes you would
do things a little differently if its not attached to financial. For example, I have some
clients who their husband or wife makes substantially more money so they dont need to
make money so I can train or coach them in a little different way than I would somebody
whose business is, look I need this to support my family or else we are going to starve.
INTERVIEWER: Before you came here did you have some preparation to be a business
coach?
PARTICIPANT #2: Not really, no, I was in sales and training.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have some training to be a trainer?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes, a little bit. We went through the process of how to give a
good training seminar. But I think what happened was I was a sales rep..
INTERVIEWER: But you were involved in seminars too?
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PARTICIPANT #2: No. It was like training large groups of people that we supplied
products for. So we would get together a session on paint; I was a paint rep. We would
get together with Home Depots and put large training sessions on for everyone in the
paint department all across San Diego. So we would give training to larger groups like
that on different aspects of the benefit of our product.
INTERVIEWER: Here at the company there is like a system that they use but beyond
that, just the coaching process; can you describe the coaching process the way you do it?
You probably do it a little bit different than everybody else does.
PARTICIPANT #2: It is so vast, I dont even know how you would go about the
process ofare you talking about what I do on a daily basis or are you talking about like
the process of a coach?
INTERVIEWER: If youre doing coaching for somebody, describe that process.
PARTICIPANT #2: Initially, I get to know where theyre at.
INTERVIEWER: So this could be in the course of a call or in the course of a threemonth period, right?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes, kind of seeing who they are or where they are at I think is the
initial thing you have to come up with. And then, kind of establishing where they want to
get to. I think looking through point A to point B looking along the way at the different
challenges as a person they are going to run into.
INTERVIEWER: So you help remove those obstacles.
PARTICIPANT #2: Absolutely and a lot is based on their personality, their situation,
their beliefs in what they do, how passionate they are, you know, what inhibits them from
excelling and all that kind of stuff. A few months ago, I was talking to a guy and we
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uncovered that his dad never made any money. He was always middle- to low-class as
far as the income level and that kind of put a ceiling on what he felt he should do, not
what he could do, but what he should do as far as income levels. He just struggled with
making six figures because that was kind of looked down upon by his family. So we kind
of have to look at those obstacles.
INTERVIEWER: So they would treat him differently if he made that much money?
PARTICIPANT #2: Its kind of looked down upon. Early development through his life
was that making a lot of money was not a good thing. You know, rich people are bad
people.
INTERVIEWER: Rich people have to step on people to get there?
PARTICIPANT #2: Exactly. So he wanted to make a $100,000.00 but
INTERVIEWER: He had like a cultural background barrier?
PARTICIPANT #2: Exactly, so we look through all of those things and kind of dissect
them and see how we can move him along through the process.
INTERVIEWER: So the next thing Im trying to get at is different anecdotes from
people about little stories they have about coaching and things they have done. A lot of
people bring up things in their early coaching experience, stories about how they learned
to be a coach or a certain client did this or that or things that come up at the events that
the boss talks about; like a little old lady in Coronado didnt know how much her house
was worth. Or maybe like a funny story about one of your clients like when you sitting
around having a beer with your family or friends and they want you to tell them a story
about your job.
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PARTICIPANT #2: Im trying to think about one. There have been a lot of different
things. They come up with some odd things. Ive helped people through a lot of
different stuff. Ive seen people go through bankruptcy and all that kind of stuff. One of
my clients Ive had over a long period of time that kind of relates back to that story about
money, our clients dont really look outside of their situation to say, Maybe that
wouldnt work. I can think of one example when I was going to Vegas one time and I
had a client who is a real big producer who probably makes $800- to $900,000.00 a year.
It just happened that we were going to be in Vegas at the same time and he goes, Maybe
we can all go out and play. And Im thinking in the back of my head; we were on
opposite sides of the casino, right? Hes over in the high roller section and Im down
here at the $5.00 table; and Im thinking if I lose now Im going to be done. He came
back and I have a limit on how much I can lose in Vegas (for me its $100.00) and Im
done. Its funny how that was so parallel to him because he goes back and the next call I
said, Oh, how did you do? He goes, I did okay. I lost about $4,000.00. I didnt lose
more than I was okay with losing. I was like, Oh my God. I would be done. Id be
on the Coronado Bridge to jump off. Im like, Oh man I lost $400.00. As I was
waiting I was thinking, He makes ten times what I make. He lost ten times. You know
what? Its all totally relevant to where were at in life.
INTERVIEWER: So you brought that back to the job, putting things in perspective?
PARTICIPANT #2: Totally. Some people are in totally different areas and you just have
to look at where you are in life and where that makes sense.
INTERVIEWER: So were there things youve done that really worked well as a coach?
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PARTICIPANT #2: I think bringing in your own stories, your clients stories; I think
inevitably people always feel like they are alone, like theyre the only ones out there.
INTERVIEWER: So the peer stories really work out well?
PARTICIPANT #2: Totally.
INTERVIEWER: So are there things youve tried that didnt work well?
PARTICIPANT #2: Im sure there are tons of things that dont work out well. You
know, I think every once in awhile we give information that we dont know what the
source was. So like someone will say something. Heres a great example. Xxxxx said
this and I had to like go back and backpedal through this. I think it kind of backfired a
little on us. He talked about the average club member making an average of
$190,000.00. After he said that, I had a slew of voice mails saying, Am I a loser? You
know I only made like $140,000.00 and the average club member makes $190,000.00.
So in saying that, Xxxxx was saying, you know, the average club member; they all
related to the average realtor makes 190,000.00. Well we have owners, brokers, and
managers in there too with that number. So you know, it kind of backfired and our
clients thought they must be a loser.
INTERVIEWER: But some of those are managing a whole office and theres a bigger
margin on that.
PARTICIPANT #2: Exactly. So I think the number was right and I told him that. Its
just youre not taking into context all the numbers that are put into that. So I think it kind
of backfired on us a little bit.
INTERVIEWER: But you were able to get yourself out of that?
PARTICIPANT #2: A little bit, yeah.
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INTERVIEWER: So did you have any formal education besides what weve talked
about before you got the job here?
PARTICIPANT #2: I went through college and Psychology was my minor and Business
was my major. I think a Business major and a Psychology minor works well with
coaching.
INTERVIEWER: Ive heard from Cheryl that theyve brought in people who had a
coaching certification and they didnt work out very well because they were locked into
some model.
PARTICIPANT #2: I think that can be okay if youre open. But I think whether youre
coaching business or life or you know physical fitnessIve done training for working
out and sporting events, and things like that.
INTERVIEWER: You trained other people like in lifting weights?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes. I used to compete in body building, so Ive trained other
people.
INTERVIEWER: Other than that, have you had some less formal training?
PARTICIPANT #2: No, not really. I think the school of hard knocks, kind of
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any sports, other than that?
PARTICIPANT #2: Have I been trained?
INTERVIEWER: Just exposure to other coaches and different aspects of coaching.
PARTICIPANT #2: I think Ive always been in sports, so Ive always had that training.
INTERVIEWER: Like being able to watch a tennis coach or something?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes. I played football and wrestled.
INTERVIEWER: So you were around coaches a lot in high school and stuff.
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PARTICIPANT #2: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: So with all the training put together, can you describe how thats
helped you get ready for the job?
PARTICIPANT #2: I think pulling from different experiences and looking at good
coaches. I think you can look at a real good coach and coaches that struggle a little bit
and you can kind of see what theyre doing and the differences.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about the struggling coach.
PARTICIPANT #2: I think the coach that struggles is trying to put too much emphasis
on being something theyre not.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me more about too much emphasis on what?
PARTICIPANT #2: Theyre headstrong on something being like the way it is and the
way they think it should be.
INTERVIEWER: Because theyre trying to teach more than they are trying to coach and
thats when they start struggling? When they say unless you learn the ABCs of real
estate youre not going to make it.
PARTICIPANT #2: And if you dont do it the way I want you to do it.
INTERVIEWER: Five calls, five pop eyes.
PARTICIPANT #2: And thats the thing about this. I think from a business standpoint
and what we do as coaches, you know the client thinks that youre telling me how many
notes to write and how many calls to make and that kind of stuff. But thats what we talk
about in the initial first few calls, but we really dont get into the calls and the notes and
the pop eyes after a period of time. They know what they need to do. You just pop it in;
how did you do on your goals? Okay. Great!
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INTERVIEWER: Do they put it on the website? Most of your clients will put how
theyre doing towards their goals?
INTERVIEWER: I know a lot of them dont, but your clients do.
PARTICIPANT #2: I put a strong emphasis on it. I think that the example I give to them
and that they can relate to is of a football coach, like say the coach of the Chargers
coaching the team on the field. We take out the scoreboard, we cant see what down
were at, how many yards for a first down, what the score is, how much time left in the
game. We cant see that. As a coach, we dont know what play to call in.
INTERVIEWER: But you find you dont have to ride them about the goal or writing
stuff down.
PARTICIPANT #2: I do. We always have to come back to it because theyll always get
away from it, but they believe in it because they can relate to that example. So when they
do drift, they do come back.
INTERVIEWER: So do you ever have to set the goals for the client?
PARTICIPANT #2: No. I help them set their goals. I think when I set the goal, thats
when they dont do it.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have a system you teach here? Is there some kind of
teaching technique you use other than the coaching techniques?
PARTICIPANT #2: I dont know about a teaching technique.
INTERVIEWER: Something you would describe as more pragmatic than what the
coaching would be?
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PARTICIPANT #2: I am definitely more of a pragmatic coach. Im pretty direct with
clients. I dont usually beat around the bush.
INTERVIEWER: So you set the goals, monitor the goals, and look at the sales results
from that. Thats the game plan you stick to?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes. Look at the scoreboard. What do you want? Where are you
going? Are you winning or losing?
INTERVIEWER: This situation youre in here is described as a distance-learning
environment? Tell me how you think that differs than if they were coming in here faceto-face.
PARTICIPANT #2: The biggest difference I see is my separation from the situation. I
think most of us here are in this situation because we care about our clients. I know I can
go make more money selling real estate, more than I do now. Im here because I truly do
care about my clients and about their progress. I think the more distant we are from their
day-to-day situation the better it allows us to give feedback from a totally outside
perspective. I think as you get more and more face-to-face and involved, like if I were to
go do training in office and what not, I would kind of get sucked into the office dynamic
which definitely inhibits my ability to move them forward.
INTERVIEWER: So is there anything else thats improved because you are removed
from them?
PARTICIPANT #2: Possibly I dont get quite as bought into their stuff, their own
emotional baggage that they bring to the table.
INTERVIEWER: Ive heard some of these realtors talk about when the market is down
and they go into the office, its really toxiceverybodys talking about the sky is falling!
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INTERVIEWER: Youre just totally removed from that. So is there anything that
suffers because youre not in the room with them?
PARTICIPANT #2: I think the ability or the emotional bond that you can get with
somebody isnt as tight. Like I think that I do a client/party mastermind about every year.
I get all my clients together and I think that develops a more emotional tie.
INTERVIEWER: Do you do your own personal party?
INTERVIEWER: Do you bring in cocktails and all?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yeah. I did it at a bar.
INTERVIEWER: Did you cop the tab?
PARTICIPANT #2: No. They do all the booze. I just bring in appetizers and stuff.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. So that gets them in the door?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yeah. They come in, have appetizers and start drinking a little bit.
They start talking to each other, kind of opening up. From my standpoint, Ive got to
make sure Im professional and not getting out of line. You know, I cant have too many
cocktails. Although everyone is buying you drinks, you cant have too many cocktails.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had people coming in here is there something you would do
differently if you had an office like this?
PARTICIPANT #2: My desk would be a lot cleaner, thats for sure.
INTERVIEWER: So you would have to watch what you look like every day.
PARTICIPANT #2: Yeah. Id probably dress more professionally. I would focus on
work and a clean desk and the way I appear. You want to look very professional.
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INTERVIEWER: So you just have stuff all over the place on your desk, but youve got a
lot of work on that desk.
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes. I do a lot of work.
INTERVIEWER: Ive heard somebody talk about how if you have this desk was clean
before I came in here. Ive heard people say that if you have a clean desk youre not
doing any work.
PARTICIPANT #2: I dont know about that. Im the same at home. On my desk at
home, there are stacks of paper that I need to file. I think its what you put a priority on.
INTERVIEWER: So are there things that would be easier to do if you were in person
with them?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes. I think you would get a better feel for their emotional state.
Like you can read facial expressions a lot more and take body language into account.
INTERVIEWER: So you have to listen pretty hard when theyre on the phone to tell
what theyre thinking?
PARTICIPANT #2: They can probably BS you a little bit more when theyre on the
phone than they could in person.
INTERVIEWER: Are there special techniques you use because youre coaching over the
phone and using e-mail and the Internet?
PARTICIPANT #2: Its hard to say. Ive got to really pay attention to really staying
focused. You do get the natural distractions like e-mail and such.
INTERVIEWER: So you might multi-task because theyre not there?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yes. But you have to watch that because there have been times
when Ive been doing other things and they start talking about another topic and Im
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checking an e-mail over here or something and miss the last five minutes of what theyre
saying.
INTERVIEWER: Just walk me through a typical coaching call.
PARTICIPANT #2: You know I kind of like to see where theyre at. Youve got to kind
of chit chat with them for five minutes or so, i.e., Hows it going? Hows the weekend
stacking up? That kind of stuff. Well go over the action steps they had the last time and
how they progressed through them, any challenges they might have had, and I think
theres kind of a back and forth to where theyre trying to get to which allows me to look
at their other types of goals.
INTERVIEWER: Other types of goals, other than the business?
PARTICIPANT #2: Yeah. There might be some personal goals like the last one I had
was a guy who was having some trouble spiritually at his church. We kind of bantered
around about that and listened to what challenges hes having with that. We also
discussed possibly some solutions to those challenges. Hes losing a lot of sleep over it
and its weighing on him a lot. So we talked about some possible journaling, some pros
and cons and things like that, kind of some solutions that could happen there. And then
we usually close off with what the next two weeks are going to look like. You know,
what are we doing? Theres a level of chit chat in there. Oh great, youre going through
spring training or something like that. So thats a typical call.
INTERVIEWER: Thats pretty much what everybody else says too. Well thats good
man.
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PARTICIPANT #3
INTERVIEWER: Whats your definition of coaching, not coaching here, just coaching
in general?
PARTICIPANT #3: I think coaching is supporting, listening, being on whoevers side,
that youre looking for their best, looking for them to win, succeed, find their strengths,
and help them lean into them. So whether its in sports or any of that, its to help
motivate and keep them moving forward.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any experience teaching? Have you ever taught?
PARTICIPANT #3: I have taught but not on a school level. I used to teach maser
gardening classes and that kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: So how is that different from coaching?
PARTICIPANT #3: Its a lot different in that I found that the performer in myself is
more of a group teach, and so there wasnt a necessary that they get it. You werent so
tied to the results which youre really tied to the results here. And so I found that just
teaching things that were for fun or educational but not where it was such a lifethreatening or life-dependent situation.
INTERVIEWER: So you could be up there just talking away and you didnt really have
to care if they were listening or anything?
PARTICIPANT #3: No. Because I liked the subject and I did want to inspire them to
enjoy the subject. I also was paid for doing what I did. And if I filled classes, I got asked
to come back. I built my reputation as a presenter and as a teacher. So from that angle,
yes, and because of the way Im wired Im relational and a performer. I want to impress
people. So all of those things.
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INTERVIEWER: So even though that was a teaching gig you found yourself falling into
a coaching kind of thing a little bit sometimes?
PARTICIPANT #3: I found that I wanted to inspire on the whole. There are times when
you are presenting publicly there comes that crystal clear moment when you are
connecting with the audience and you know that they are learning and growing and you
are impacting them. As a presenter, as a teacher, for me thats when you are winning.
For me thats the big joy of it.
INTERVIEWER: So what you do here, they call it business coaching now? And they
have a definition for that, but what is your definition of the business coaching?
PARTICIPANT #3: I think it is teaching, instructing, supporting, guiding, motivating
people to build a thriving productive business that supports them and their lives.
INTERVIEWER: What were you doing before you came here? Did you have some
preparation for this job?
PARTICIPANT #3: I went back to college later in my life and got my business degree in
Organizational Leadership. So I had that skill. I ran my own business for more than a
decade. I also started my own business.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of business was that?
PARTICIPANT #3: I was a manager with Tupperware. I did that and ran a team, pushed
a lot of plastic and was in the top 2% of the nation. So that experience probably has
helped me more than anything.
INTERVIEWER: So this was sales and managing experience with the other people who
were on your team?
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PARTICIPANT #3: Correct, the whole time management, running the business out of
your home; all of that.
INTERVIEWER: And budget management?
INTERVIEWER: And so they have a system that they teach people here, but theres also
a coaching process in place, but your way of doing that might be a little different than
other people. When youre coaching somebody, could you describe that process? And
this could be over the course of a few months or it could be just the process that you go
through in a 30-minute call.
PARTICIPANT #3: Thats hard to define in that, I mean aside from logistics tha
INTERVIEWER: Just generalize.
PARTICIPANT #3: Okay. Generally, I try to find out where they are when you start the
call because sometimes people have had really big things happen in two weeks time.
INTERVIEWER: And you might find out where they are when you start coaching them.
PARTICIPANT #3: Oh yeah. When you first start coaching them you want to know
where they are in their business, where they want to go, what they would like to see
changed.
INTERVIEWER: And that could be over three months or 30 minutes.
PARTICIPANT #3: Yeah. You find it out in layers as they find it out, because a lot of
people just, those very simple questions, where do you want to go?, where are you?, you
know in your world you may think youre fine because thats all you know and that there
might not be an option. So I think part of that is enlightening, given perspective, and how
is that working?
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INTERVIEWER: So you could ask those three questions that you just mentioned right
when you first meet them and get one answer, but you might ask that question 15
different ways and finally get down to the answers that you actually sought in the first
place.
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes it takes awhile to get the answers to those questions or
for these people to discover what the answers are to their questions?
PARTICIPANT #3: Correct.
INTERVIEWER: You know, when I go to the events, the boss has all these anecdotes
about different clients he has had and stuff like that. Do you have any stories like that?
Like if you went to a family dinner and you had a family member who didnt know that
you were coaching, would you have some story to tell them about coaching? They might
be like, Are you coaching a football team?
PARTICIPANT #3: Definitely. I love the wins.
INTERVIEWER: Well just tell me about some specific client.
PARTICIPANT #3: Well there are a lot of them. You know, one of my clients that came
into the business, her business was actually pretty successful. She just didnt have a life
and she just has really learned to put in the boundaries and when she had a situation come
up, she just passed the buck, didnt take it on, and I think seeing people do that sort of
thing is huge.
INTERVIEWER: Somebody earlier mentioned about call blocking, not blocking calls,
but where you say Im not going to be answering my calls in these specific time slots.
Do you do that with people?
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PARTICIPANT #3: I do. And there are a lot of people who have issues with that where
they are afraid. It really comes down to being afraid to not be available 24/7. So I give
them the example that if you call a doctor and he says, Hey, sure. I can see you right
now. You know in two hours, tomorrow morning, or the next day you kind of start
wondering if
INTERVIEWER: Wondering if hes any good?
PARTICIPANT #3: Exactly. And if you are a professional youll show up three and a
half weeks later on a Tuesday thats not really a good time for you because youve heard
that this doctor is really good. And you know he is a professional. You see hes busy
and its that mindset. And its really so much mindset that people perceive. And I think
thats really the big thing and for them to understand that they cant possibly serve
everybody. I think thats one of the things too, thinking theyre going to miss the
business. What we are looking for is those people that appreciate and get you, so its a
process of elimination and that were not going to be able to please everybody, and if
theyre going to be upset that they didnt get hold of you because you took a day off, then
they are a D client and we dont want them anyway. So I think its just helping people to
get that perspective of it and to set their business up as a business.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have any specific story about one client though, just general
stuff?
PARTICIPANT #3: You know, one of my gals had really wanted to take a day off. And
we decided Sunday, single mother, so she really put that in there okay, set it up with her
clients, educating, putting the voice mail on her phone, that kind of thing, and then
somebody called and she was afraid to turn it down. She went out and she could hear me
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over her shoulder saying, Im off work on a Sunday, Im not supposed to. So she got a
flat tire and couldnt make the appointment. She told me that she knew I made that tire
go flat. And then she did it again. She was good for a couple of weeks, and then she
broke the rule again. And a big thunderstorm came up and washed out the road and she
couldnt make the appointment again. Then she said, I got the message.
INTERVIEWER: So have you had something that works well that youve done as a
coach, and it doesnt have to be something that you hear about everybody else doing?
PARTICIPANT #3: I think my two largest strengths are a really strong work ethic, I
show up, Im there all the time.
INTERVIEWER: So youre always on time?
PARTICIPANT #3: I am always within five minutes and my clients understand that. If
they get sidetracked, Im not going to say, Its really too bad, your dog died, your
husband left you, but I got a call.
INTERVIEWER: So your calls might go a little longer?
PARTICIPANT #3: They might go a little over, but my clients all know that Im going
to be there for them. Five minutes okay, but even if it goes seven or eight minutes
beyond, thats really unusual, but it does happen occasionally. But I make sure my next
client gets their time. I usually back two calls up to each other because
INTERVIEWER: That way youve got some catch-up time.
PARTICIPANT #3: Exactly. So Im never sick. Im always here. My clients count on
me. I dont leave, you know, cancel, or that kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: So its the reliability.
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PARTICIPANT #3: Yes. It is. They know Im there. When Im going on vacation, I
tell them. I practice what I teach. Im living what I teach. And Im going to take some
downtime.
INTERVIEWER: Is that the other thing that you were going to say?
PARTICIPANT #3: Thats one of the things I do. I let them know and my clients are
glad Im going away, because they know that I work hard. The other thing they know is
because of my Heritage profile, Im a team builder. For me I think thats really key,
because I build a community within my team of my clients.
INTERVIEWER: So you have your clients doing some peer coaching too?
PARTICIPANT #3: No, but I hook them up. I try to get them referrals back and forth. I
send out team e-mails and tell them to call each other on the team.
INTERVIEWER: Well, thats what I mean when I say peer coaching, like theres
another realtor that you coach that they talk to too.
PARTICIPANT #3: Right or they hook up in some fashion. Ive got a lot of clients that
refer people who want me to be their coach. So I think team building is relational and the
other thing is my humor. I laugh a lot and my clients really appreciate it.
INTERVIEWER: So have you tried something that didnt work well?
PARTICIPANT #3: Yeah. One time I tried to get a little bit tougher than I really am.
INTERVIEWER: So its not really your style to be tough with people?
PARTICIPANT #3: And I have one gal in particular who I really warned her. I called
her on her stuff and asked if thats the way she wanted to be, if thats the way she wanted
to show up, and it really, because I have my profile. I have clients that beat up on
themselves a lot. They need somebody to be kind and to help them see life.
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INTERVIEWER: So the tough thing really doesnt work for you?
PARTICIPANT #3: Generally not.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any formal training before you got this job or coaching
training or certification?
PARTICIPANT #3: No. I just did management and training in my previous sales
positions. I also ran a garden and gift store, hired, trained, and all that.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have management training?
PARTICIPANT #3: Not official, only through always being in a management position.
INTERVIEWER: So youve always done training but through the job; you didnt go
through a school to get the education?
PARTICIPANT #3: No. But later I got my college degree.
INTERVIEWER: Have you done anything less formal than that, than going to college?
PARTICIPANT #3: No. Im not sure what you mean.
INTERVIEWER: I mean like going to a tennis coach or something.
PARTICIPANT #3: No.
INTERVIEWER: So you have training here at this job and youve had some other
training in college. Has any of that helped you with this job? Do you want to talk about
something specific from that training that you use on the job all the time?
PARTICIPANT #3: You know, working with my team, building synergy with my team.
Where I worked before, I had a core team that worked there for eight or nine years with
very little turnover. And I think thats because of my management style. Thats because
of developing that team builder ship, by communicating where we were going, by asking
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for input, you know those kinds of things in a management position. I think thats
probably not specific enough for you.
INTERVIEWER: No thats okay. So when I read about this topic before I started doing
this study, goal-setting was a common theme and we do that here. So how do you get
clients to set goals? Do you get them to set goals?
PARTICIPANT #3: Oh yes, definitely, because you have no clue where youre going.
We start with their financial goal, what they need to make, and what it costs them to run
their business and stuff like that.
INTERVIEWER: So you have them do a budget and things like that?
PARTICIPANT #3: We start to do a general and then we get more specific to start to get
the number of what we need to cover. I remember one guy when I started coaching him,
he said, I want to make $60,000.00. Great. Okay. How much does it cost you to live?
Oh it doesnt cost that much. Great. So we started off with a net income, but we started
off with making $60,000.00 because that was going to be his goal. By the time we got
the budget done and had a clue of what his business was costing him, he was spending
$90,000.00. He needed $90,000.00 and had set a goal for himself of $60,000.00 when he
needed $90,000.00.
INTERVIEWER: He only needed $30,000.00 more.
PARTICIPANT #3: So this is why he was feeling like he was never on top of it or
winning.
INTERVIEWER: Even when he hit his goal?
PARTICIPANT #3: Exactly. And I cant tell you how many people dont.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever set the goal for the client?
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PARTICIPANT #3: Never.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever type the number in for them?
PARTICIPANT #3: No.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever take them to the page and get them to type in the number
if they havent done it themselves?
PARTICIPANT #3: No. I dont type it on the page. I write it out. But we talk about it
and put it in the goals. That number is theirs.
INTERVIEWER: So you might put something in your notes?
PARTICIPANT #3: I will have them come to what they want to make and what their
goal is. Then well work it out. I have them come to that number by finding out what it
costs to run their business and what they want in their pocket after expenses. So they
start working backwards
INTERVIEWER: What if you have somebody who just wont set a goal? Do you do
something with them that works?
PARTICIPANT #3: Ive never had anybody who wouldnt set a goal with the way that I
walk them through it.
INTERVIEWER: There are a lot of other coaches that cant get them to do the goals.
Ive seen the numbers. Theres like 50% of clients that dont put anything down for their
goals.
PARTICIPANT #3: Do you mean in the five-circle goals?
INTERVIEWER: No, in the lead generation tracker.
PARTICIPANT #3: Do you mean in the proactive goals?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
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PARTICIPANT #3: In the proactive activities.
INTERVIEWER: The note calls a pop eye??? Youve probably got about 100% on that?
PARTICIPANT #3: I will look, but I cant imagine I have anybody who doesnt have
goals in there.
INTERVIEWER: You need to talk to some of these other coaches about what youre
doing.
PARTICIPANT #3: You know, I had really good training and I think that from some of
the coaches that started years and years ago that were flying by the seat of their pants, I
came in with really good training; Im sure of that.
INTERVIEWER: So what they call this environment youre in here is a distancelearning environment and youve done some training face-to-face like in a classroom
situation but have you ever done one-on-one, face-to-face stuff?
INTERVIEWER: With the gardening and stuff like that?
INTERVIEWER: How is that different from the distance coaching?
PARTICIPANT #3: You dont have the visual, you know, the body language.
INTERVIEWER: Is that a detriment or is that a positive thing? Coming in on bad hair
days are better when its distance coaching?
PARTICIPANT #3: I dont know. I think you communicate a lot with body language
and all that. Ive had some clients who were like, I dont even know what you look like.
So Im having a hard time connecting because I dont know who you are.
INTERVIEWER: And they end up dropping the coaching because of that?
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PARTICIPANT #3: Ive sent pictures out because I had a couple of people who couldnt
connect because of being visual people.
INTERVIEWER: And that helped?
PARTICIPANT #3: Yes. I found the relationships really deepened that I met at Turning
Point. I even had some that asked for a transfer that happened earlier on.
INTERVIEWER: After they saw you face-to-face?
PARTICIPANT #3: Yes. It freaked me out. It only happened once or twice. That was
in my first year of coaching. But ever since then my clients meeting me just deepens the
relationship.
INTERVIEWER: So is there something that you think is better because of the distance
between you and them?
PARTICIPANT #3: Possibly some people can reach an intimacy or getting down to
things because there isnt the judgment, there isnt the other stuff going on because I am
kind of an anonymous person. One of my clients said to me that she could tell me things
she couldnt tell her mom.
INTERVIEWER: Other people have said that too. Weve talked a little bit about this,
but if you had the coachees come in here would there be something you would do
different if they were coming into your office every couple of weeks?
PARTICIPANT #3: I dont know. Its interesting. I havent really thought about it in
that respect.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something you do differently because youre on the phone or
using the e-mail and Internet? Is there some special thing you do that you couldnt if
they were coming in?
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PARTICIPANT #3: I cant think of anything.
INTERVIEWER: Youre drawing a blank?
PARTICIPANT #3: Yes. I dont play Solitaire on my calls. I dont eat on my calls. I
just drink coffee, but I do that.
INTERVIEWER: So you try to avoid the multi-tasking things. So if they were sitting
there, youd see the same person?
PARTICIPANT #3: I cant do that and really listen to my clients. I have seen other
people do it and I dont know how they do it. You know, shop; I cant do that because I
listen and because Im hearing how I can serve, I hear theres a road block or something.
So if Im chewing, shopping, or something I pretty much.
INTERVIEWER: So you would pretty much do it the same way whether they were here
or not?
PARTICIPANT #3: Yes. I hadnt thought about that.
INTERVIEWER: So theres kind of a script to a typical coaching call but youre script
might just be a little different than that? Just walk me through a typical coaching call
with you, what you would do.
PARTICIPANT #3: So Id say, Hi. How are you doing? How have the last couple of
weeks been? What have been your successes? Tell me the good stuff.
INTERVIEWER: So its kind of an open-ended thing? And then they might talk about
business or personal stuff?
INTERVIEWER: Do they jump into the business stuff a lot?
PARTICIPANT #3: Maybe 50/50.
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INTERVIEWER: Really 50/50.
INTERVIEWER: So its only 50% of the time they might tell you their grandma died or
their dog got run over by a train. Only 50% of the time?
PARTICIPANT #3: You know sometimes we get into business and Ill see which venue
wins. What good has happened since we last spoke.
INTERVIEWER: But half of the time they go to the business?
INTERVIEWER: So we start out the call about how things have been going. The
middle of the call; what is that like?
PARTICIPANT #3: We look at whats going on and Ill say to them before I get to what
I want to cover today, Is there anything I need to know about?
INTERVIEWER: So that might give them another opportunity to bring up the personal
stuff?
PARTICIPANT #3: Right, if there is anything going on. Now I will know if their kids
are graduating and as we start talking about the wins Ill say, Oh yeah. How was your
vacation? Sometimes well start off that way.
INTERVIEWER: But when you say youre looking at the things that have gone on, then
youre really looking at the business numbers.
PARTICIPANT #3: Yes. Well get into that. I usually have something I want to cover.
I check where they are and I need to remind them to get their expenses in. I see that they
did their pop eyes and Ill start that off maybe with, Youve really been hitting it! I see
you got another couple of contracts. I keep track of where they were, more in their
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pipeline. Youve been busy. Thats great! So I try to find something good thats going
on.
INTERVIEWER: Then how does the call end up?
PARTICIPANT #3: Then we go forward and go through our action steps to see how we
did and what got in our way if something did.
INTERVIEWER: The action steps from last week?
PARTICIPANT #3: From last call. And what we are going to focus on for this two
weeks. And while Im on the call I may hear; oh yeah, I know I need to get on my
expenses. So I put that down as an action step and you know, blah blah, and I really
want to focus on, I need to follow up with my potential.
INTERVIEWER: So you might clue them in on this is definitely one of your action
steps?
PARTICIPANT #3: Yeah. And I might say, and then they may go, its an action step.
So we may already be working on it during the call. Sometimes, because theyre talking,
Ill say, This is something I, for myself, will start doing notes on what they need to focus
on. And then sometimes occasionally there is only a couple, and Ill say, Okay. This is
what I heard. Does that feel right to you? Great. Okay. Is there anything else you want
me to hold you accountable for the next two weeks, or that you want to achieve in the
next two weeks?
INTERVIEWER: And do you have a set number of action steps that they are going to
have?
PARTICIPANT #3: I go around three. Once in awhile it will be two. Theyre pretty big
or theyre just overloaded with what theyve got going on.
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INTERVIEWER: Rarely less than two?
PARTICIPANT #3: Rarely. I cant even imagine it being less than two.
INTERVIEWER: So two is pretty much your minimum?
PARTICIPANT #3: Total minimum. Ninety percent of the time its three, but I do have
sometimes four, five or six, but they may be smaller things.
INTERVIEWER: But six is the most youve ever seen?
INTERVIEWER: Okay
PARTICIPANT #4
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching, not the company one, what you
would say it is?
PARTICIPANT #4: I think more than anything it is about supporting the person thats
on the other side, coming alongside them, holding them accountable to what they say
they want to do and then really finding out if its truly what they want to do. I dont think
you find that out until later. I think a lot of times from the get-go
INTERVIEWER: Whether its true or not?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yeah. They have an idea of what they think they want.
INTERVIEWER: And they have an elevator speech on what their goals are but
PARTICIPANT #4: Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on their history. You
know some people always think they cant do very much so they keep their goals really
small and look for 12 deals a year and thats as far as their goals go without even going
into other circles.
INTERVIEWER: Youre not the first person thats said they tend to set low goals.
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PARTICIPANT #4: You have either or. You have people that go really big, hairy
audacious, and
INTERVIEWER: Unachievable?
PARTICIPANT #4: Its legacy rather than where they are right now. Legacy is
fantastic, but legacy can sabotage if youre not in a success place to get to significance.
So somebodys in survival and theyre focused on legacy, theyre screwed; and if
somebodys in success but theyre focused on stability or survival, theyre screwed again.
So I think it has more to do with whatevers happened in the past and how transparent
and willing they are to walk through whatevers gone on there. Because I think we get
stuck in patterns and thats where we drift back and we typically sit in the same place. I
think very few people get to success and I think very, very few people get to significance,
and I think it is more internal self talk than it is really
INTERVIEWER: Define success for me. Is there a company definition of success?
PARTICIPANT #4: I dont see it that way, no, because success could be simply I want
to be a good mother or I want to be a supportive husband or wife. Success is whatever
they determine success is.
INTERVIEWER: So success is different for everybody?
INTERVIEWER: Its significance; whats the difference between success and
significance?
PARTICIPANT #4: Well, for me I think significance is where you get to the place of
being able to live out a legacy piece without having to worry about how much money you
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make at any moment and that you could stop if you wanted to; that youre doing it
because you enjoy doing it. And its that next level
INTERVIEWER: So being successful, youre still just paying the rent and significance
youre doing this just because you want to do it, not because you need the money?
PARTICIPANT #4: Well success, I actually still think its bills and its still in a budget;
youre always in a budget and its always still paying bills. You know, that never
changes in life. Right? No matter where you are, youve still got upkeep and whether
youve paid off your mortgage
INTERVIEWER: Bill Gates has a budget.
PARTICIPANT #4: Right and whether youve had children or not, youve still got
people to support and things like that. I dont think that ever changes. But I think the
significance piece that I think happens is that heart piece, you know where actually
youve got that change of heart, where youre looking at things in a different way that
perhaps you cant see right now. Im not in significance so I havent changed my heart
yet. So I havent done a determination of what significance is. You know?
INTERVIEWER: So you are not the first person to mention coming alongside
somebody.
PARTICIPANT #4: Well, I honestly think the biggest aspect of coaching that I find to be
successful to me is the connection. I work really hard at connecting with that person so
they know that I care about them, and they know that they can trust me. And then I think
good of what you do comes along after that. But coming alongside them is where theyre
at right now, why theyre there, what do they hit on a daily basis to stop them, what do
they trip on and where do they stumble? That to me is coming alongside.
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INTERVIEWER: So have you ever done any teaching?
PARTICIPANT #4: No.
INTERVIEWER: If you were to tell me what the difference was between teaching and
coaching, could you verbalize that?
PARTICIPANT #4: To me, teaching is an instruction piece. Its something where you
are reading off a piece of paper or youre reading out of a blackboard and you are
directing, but its not coming alongside somebody where theyre at.
INTERVIEWER: So you do some teaching here, teaching the referral system?
PARTICIPANT #4: Absolutely. Calls notes and pop eyes are a part of coaching and
thats the teaching element of coaching. People that have never done coaching assume
coaching is calls notes and pop eyes and its a system. Typically, people dont get caught
up in the system, they get caught up in everything else thats going on in their life; where
I think they need coaching and then you teach on a system piece.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about getting caught up in everything else that goes on in your
life?
PARTICIPANT #4: Well, as I say, I think it all comes back from history. So I think
whatever theyve gone through as children or as adolescents, I think thats where we all
get trapped. I think we all get trapped at a certain age and we keep on going back to that
unless we face whatever that is that holds us back. And I think thats what catches us up.
It comes in different forms for everybody, but to me people can caught up in time
management, they get caught up in how they view themselves, they get caught up in Im
too successful, they get caught up in Im not successful enough, they get caught up in
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kids, they get caught up in what everybody else is doing in the office; its everything, its
everywhere.
INTERVIEWER: So they started calling this business coaching awhile ago instead of
executive coaching. Can you define business coaching for me?
PARTICIPANT #4: Well Ive never been here when they called it executive coaching
that I know of, so I was doing business and five-circle coaching and business coaching, I
dont, when you are on one-on-one, I dont think business coaching exists. Its five
circles. Because, as I said, business teaching is very easy; its the other stuff that gets in
the way that creates where the coaching comes in. So I dont know if we do
INTERVIEWER: So you just call it coaching?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yeah, I call it coaching. Because honestly, if you listen to coaching
calls on a regular basis in here, its very rarely just formatted around business. Unless
people are in a successful place and they have other people to go to with issues
INTERVIEWER: So for you the business aspect of this is not really that significant. Its
more the technique of coaching.
PARTICIPANT #4: The business piece is what keeps them going because if they dont
get the pragmatic results they wont stay in.
INTERVIEWER: But as far as your job of being a coach, you know these business
techniques but thats a trivial thing. If you were going to coach somebody in tennis you
would have to go learn some tennis techniques but it wouldnt be significant to your
ability to coach, right?
PARTICIPANT #4: I dont think in here the most successful coaches are just business
focused. Because if all you talk about is calls notes and pop eyes and they keep on
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missing the calls notes and pop eyes then you dont address why or how or any of that
and all you keep on coming out is from that same business aspect every time, you hit a
brick wall. Because youre not listening to them anymore.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have some preparation for this job?
PARTICIPANT #4: No.
INTERVIEWER: What were you doing before you came here?
PARTICIPANT #4: I was in sales and lending.
INTERVIEWER: Well thats preparation.
PARTICIPANT #4: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: I mean youre working with people that sell stuff, right?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. But I see this as completely different. When I worked in a
hospital I found it to be more similar to this, simply because of the aspect of every single
day people throw different things at you; its people stuff. Sales I think is very simple
because when you sell you very rarely go as deep as you do in coaching. So you dont
get entangled in everything else.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about the hospital. What was that like?
PARTICIPANT #4: Oh I used to do autopsies, so it was completely different.
INTERVIEWER: But you found yourself talking to family members.
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes, when they had lost somebody.
INTERVIEWER: So that was like the coaching with the counseling and therapy type
thing?
PARTICIPANT #4: In a very, very slight way. More than anything was the fact that you
never knew what you were getting. So every day you would go to the hospital and you
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wouldnt know what you were getting from day to day and I find that very similar here.
Thats what keeps me engaged is every single day something else.
INTERVIEWER: So with an autopsy you might have something that would be the
obvious thing that this person likely died of, but you would find it wasnt such an obvious
thing.
PARTICIPANT #4: You have to always go through every singleyou have to lift up
every organ and go through every organ to find out what was the major and what was the
minor. So just because hes had a heart attack you cant assume, well there it is, hes had
a heart attack and Im not checking anything else. Coaching is the same. Youve got to
go through lots of different processes to find out what is the cause here. Very rarely is it
the first stone you lift up.
INTERVIEWER: So you had the autopsy, the lending and the sales. Were there any
other jobs you had other than that?
PARTICIPANT #4: Ive been a flight attendant. Its like Ive had different lives. I
worked in a hospital in England. I was a team leader in England. I was a manager in
England.
INTERVIEWER: A team leader of what?
PARTICIPANT #4: I had a friend who owned a kitchen company. So when I was in
school in my air levels; you guys dont have air levels; its like the two years before you
go to college, so you do something called air levels and AS levels; so while I did that I
worked part time at a factory and they made kitchens, so I was a team leader about how
many things you could do in an hour, what was the acceptable ratios and things like that.
INTERVIEWER: So that was kind of a coaching experience for you too, right?
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PARTICIPANT #4: No, it was a telling experience. Youd sit and youd do it and youd
do it yourself and then if you could do 100 in an hour, and they would say do 50 an hour,
if I could come in as a brand new person and do 100 an hour I simply put their ratios up
and made sure they were doing it. There was no coaching in it. It was not sitting down
and saying, Hey Leroy, whats the problem today? Did you have stuff? It was nothing
like that. It was get on with it.
INTERVIEWER: More of telling than looking to see what their goal was?
INTERVIEWER: So youve had new clients and youve had relationships with them
over the course of months or years, so tell me about that process that you go through
coaching somebody over a few months. When you first get them in; whats that like?
PARTICIPANT #4: I think the thing for me is that they are all scared at the start. They
dont know whats coming. They assume its going to be a magic wand and certainly
they are going to have business.
INTERVIEWER: So there is some fear at the beginning.
PARTICIPANT #4: Oh yes. I think they are all fearful and they dont want to expose.
Some do. But often the ones that completely go out and expose everything right from the
get go quit really quickly because all of a sudden theyve made themselves very
uncomfortable.
INTERVIEWER: So the ones that are hard to get to know are the ones youve had more
success with?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes, over a length of time, because theyre building trust with you.
Theyre letting you in piece by piece so they can trust you.
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INTERVIEWER: So what do you think about these ones that are willing to bare their
souls immediately? What characteristic theyre having that makes them unsuccessful?
PARTICIPANT #4: Well I dont think theyre really looking at what is the problem.
They have already a faade that goes up that they put right out there to tell people that
they are still not digging deep enough to really
INTERVIEWER: So youve been unsuccessful at breaking through that faade?
PARTICIPANT #4: They quit really, really quickly and they always quit through Client
Care. So they actually dont want to talk to you then. Its almost like theyve said too
much and theyve gotten embarrassed and now theyve gotten themselves off track so
they pull back.
INTERVIEWER: So they come in with this faade, you break through that faade a little
bit, they get embarrassed, and then theyre so embarrassed they go and just call Client
Care.
PARTICIPANT #4: Once people dont want too, I think its easy to do, stay in stability,
right? Its easy to stay in a comfort zone and its easy enough to look and go how do I
get to success? People always say they want to get to success or they want to get
significance, but more people dont because they dont want to be that transparent, you
know, to go through whatever is going to be painful to get them there. I think people will
eventually drop back down to stability or survival.
INTERVIEWER: So everybody has little stories about maybe a specific client or
something like that, some experience youve had coaching; like if I was in your family
and we were at dinner and you had an uncle come in that you hadnt talked to for awhile
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and he asks you what the coaching thing is about. Youd probably tell him a story about
a client.
PARTICIPANT #4: About a client? I have a couple of clients that are just incredible
clients and they are the ones that I always, for me Im more connected like I have a
guy in Virginia and from a weekend he sent a note and he completely understood what
the coaching element was and on a day-to-day basis, what is a coach we went through,
rather than
INTERVIEWER: From a weekend to the coaching
PARTICIPANT #4: A weekend. He sent me a note about how he couldnt understand
how we could do our job because from every 30 minutes we got to listen to somebody
elses bitching, ranting, problems or successes. But he got it right from the get go. I talk
about people like that because Im always inspired by people like that, who actually get it
from somebody elses point of view so quickly.
INTERVIEWER: So he put himself in your shoes right away and he saw what it was you
could do for him to help him get where he was going to go?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. And then I have others who are just highly, highly motivated
and whether they had me or not they would do very well and they just understand that by
having that little extra push or that extra accountability in two weeks. You cant build
drive. People are just naturally driven or they are not driven. So people who come in and
have that real get up and go and are real driven, I love to coach them, because Im built
for momentum and theyre built for momentum and we just fly right along.
INTERVIEWER: So what are some things that work well when youre doing the
coaching? Some techniques that you use.
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PARTICIPANT #4: I dont know if I have anything like that.
INTERVIEWER: Well youve already talked about digging into where they are now and
coming alongside of them, things like that.
PARTICIPANT #4: You see, for me Im very free flow, and that in itself for me works,
because I get people who are very in the moment and very fast and Im very in the
moment and Im very fast. Im just a free flow. Im somebody who thinks outside the
box and I dont do this is the first step and this is the second step. I dont coach like that.
INTERVIEWER: So you think on your feet?
PARTICIPANT #4: If you throw something out at me Im good at turning it around so
they can think about how to get to the solution themselves. I will tell you that most
people that know me and my coaching style think my strongest skill is connecting to that
person and really them feeling safe so that they can go through the process.
INTERVIEWER: So do they have you more involved in the sales thing than the other
coaches right now?
PARTICIPANT #4: No.
INTERVIEWER: So youre all doing the same thing?
PARTICIPANT #4: Every coach in here is making sales calls from people that have
gotten out of the program in the last three years.
INTERVIEWER: So youre going back to your old clients and trying to get them back?
INTERVIEWER: So is there something youve done that doesnt work well?
PARTICIPANT #4: Being linear. It doesnt work for me.
INTERVIEWER: And youve tried to do that in the past?
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PARTICIPANT #4: Theyve tried to make me more global so I think in a bigger picture,
and it just doesnt work. For me, I get lost in
INTERVIEWER: So it sounds like you are thinking globally if youre thinking on your
feet and adjusting, and youre kind of looking at the big picture to
PARTICIPANT #4: Im really not a big picture thinker. Im very good if I have a client
thats a big picture thinker and doesnt know what to do right now, because Im really
insightful into what they have to do right now to get them to the bigger picture. But if
they come into me to draw out a bigger picture because theyre only in the moment,
were the blind leading the blind. Its not a good scenario for me.
INTERVIEWER: That seems to contradict what you said earlier because you were
saying you were good with people that were willing
PARTICIPANT #4: Well thats a different process though because thats still an in the
moment process where youre building relationship call-by-call, but its notI want to
be here in 20 years. If they say they want to be here in 20 years, Ill say okay, what do
we need to do to get you there in 20 years, and then we break it down. And I can break it
down to what you have to do today to get there in 20 years. But if they know what they
want to do right now and they havent got a clue what their legacy is or what the big
picture is, I can break down walls to get them into that next step, but Im not in the
moment thinking ten years out.
INTERVIEWER: So you need their help to think ten years out?
PARTICIPANT #4: Im not a global person, so for me Im very much today.
INTERVIEWER: Is that what your profile says?
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PARTICIPANT #4: Oh yes! I dont even know whats after you. I just dont look at it.
I dont prep. If I prep for calls, it throws me off, because Im going in with an agenda
and I dont feel I can go in with an agenda. They have to have the agenda.
INTERVIEWER: But you really believe in the systems they have here?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. The reason our coaching works is because we make it
individual rather than
INTERVIEWER: So what do you think about the personality profile being immutable,
that it just doesnt change for some reason? So I do a profile on somebody today and
somebody else does a profile on them five years from now, do you think they are going to
get the same results?
PARTICIPANT #4: I think there is nature and nurture. Some things you are born with
and other things are nurtured. So I definitely think theres shift but I think the profile
would come out to be the same because thats what your natural strength is. But then I
think
INTERVIEWER: Thats what the company line is on it, that the profile doesnt change.
PARTICIPANT #4: The company says it doesnt change, but I do think there are certain
natural traits you are born with. I know when I was a kid I was competitive. When my
dad used to like the races and he used to watch the horses on the television, I had a
donkey puffy that I would race around the house with because I was, you know, the pony
that he put money on. Im naturally competitive. My dad used to time me to go to the
store for milk, and he would time me the next time because I would want to beat my time.
Thats never going to change in me. Its how Im wired. But there are certain things that
have nurtured in me that add to what Im natured by. Does that make sense?
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INTERVIEWER: Yes. I just dont believe about the immutability. I think there are
things that happen that change you significantly.
PARTICIPANT #4: But dont you think that would be nurture. Because you still have
that drive, but you might not lean into it as much because of the nurture side.
INTERVIEWER: I just think you change over time, but thats my one problem with the
Heritage Profile.
PARTICIPANT #4: For me, I know if you put me into a box, I know Ive always been
the same. I know that I definitely handle some things differently, so people might think
Ive changed, simply because its nurtured along in different things that have made me
more interesting or made me; you know what I mean?
INTERVIEWER: I just think there are things over time that people work on that they get
better at. Like there are certain things I wasnt very good at as a young kid and I worked
on them and I got better. And I became better at them than the people who were good at
them naturally because they didnt work at those things.
PARTICIPANT #4: But to me thats nurtured. Im not saying that you are stuck in a
box. To me, you can nurture things. Like I have a lady who in her profile has zero drive,
but shes highly competitive because of how shes wired in other areas. Shes not seen as
being a competitive person, but because shes really inspired to be fast and in the
moment, she brings out a competitive edge and shes really driven; but its not how shes
nurtured. It comes from other places.
INTERVIEWER: So are there things youve done that dont work well though?
PARTICIPANT #4: In here. Well I dont do them anymore. So if they are
INTERVIEWER: But the step by step thing, thats the main thing?
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PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. For me, when Ive worked with different master coaches,
when theyve really tried to pull me more globally or get me more I am analytical, but
Im not analytical in the step of a linear piece.
INTERVIEWER: Whats it like now that there arent master coaches?
PARTICIPANT #4: Its different.
INTERVIEWER: Is there somebody you go talk to.
PARTICIPANT #4: Peers.
INTERVIEWER: But you dont have a meeting with some supervisor on a regular basis
like you used to when there were master coaches?
PARTICIPANT #4: No.
INTERVIEWER: And do you think its better now without the master coaches?
PARTICIPANT #4: No.
INTERVIEWER: You think it was better before?
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Did you have any formal education that helped you get this
job?
PARTICIPANT #4: My degree is in anatomy and pathology.
INTERVIEWER: So you have more of a medical background?
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any less formal training? Were you ever like on a sports
team or something like that?
PARTICIPANT #4: I used to be on a couple of sports teams at home but years ago when
I was in school.
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INTERVIEWER: What kind of sport?
PARTICIPANT #4: I used to do basketball for the county and I used to do long distance
running.
INTERVIEWER: Do you still do that?
PARTICIPANT #4: No. I actually was competitive in not body building but it was
figure and fitness. I used to do that competitively when I was 18 to 22 or 23, so I still
work out all the time because its just part of my every day routine.
INTERVIEWER: Is that the only sport youre involved in now?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. I do yoga. I do that P90X thing. You know where its kick
boxing; every day its a different thing.
INTERVIEWER: Ive never heard of that.
PARTICIPANT #4: Youve never seen it? Its pretty intense. Its like really extreme
workout but every day is something different. So yesterday I did an hour of kick boxing
and then I did an hour of cardio. And today Ive got to do an hour and a half of yoga and
tomorrow Ive got to do backs and biceps.
INTERVIEWER: And its called P90?
PARTICIPANT #4: P90X.
INTERVIEWER: So we talk about having clients set goals when they are coaching. Tell
me a little bit about that.
PARTICIPANT #4: Well typically they come in with set goals and then as you work
with them you figure out if they are real goals or not.
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes the goals are just BS?
PARTICIPANT #4: A lot of times, yes.
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INTERVIEWER: A lot of the time?
PARTICIPANT #4: A lot of the time they are not real goals. A lot of times they are
writing goals because they are at an event and they feel like they have to write goals.
INTERVIEWER: So these are the people who arent willing to open up to you initially
that you have the success with in helping them realize what their real goals are?
PARTICIPANT #4: Some. But I think a lot of people, I mean I dont know if youve
gone through turning point
INTERVIEWER: Yes. Ive gone to several.
PARTICIPANT #4: But have you ever written goals that really havent meant that
much?
INTERVIEWER: Not me, no.
PARTICIPANT #4: You see, when I first came here and you go through spiritual and
you go throughwell for me spirituality has never been a big part of my upbringing. I
grew up in England. Hardly anybody goes to church. You know, to me spirituality was
church and that was the definition here. I used to write goals that I thought were
supposed to be what I was doing and rather than what I really wanted to do and I think
people often do that because they are in a room especially if you are analytical and you
have to really think about it.
INTERVIEWER: So do you work on that circle at all now, the spirituality thing?
PARTICIPANT #4: I do but Ive been freed up a lot over the years with what that has to
mean and what that doesnt have to mean.
INTERVIEWER: So what does spirituality mean to you now?
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PARTICIPANT #4: Well, for me I think Ive progressed in that because I was very
faithful of letting anybody in, let alone God in. It was a very faithful place for me. So
now that a lot of my fear has subsided and because Ive gone through my own growth
and really looked at a lot of the stuff I was scared of, Im not as scared to let it in. I was
very scared five or six years ago.
INTERVIEWER: So the spirituality with you has to do with your personal relationships
with other people?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. It was another fear of somebody coming in and letting me
down rather than being vulnerable enough to experience it. That was what it was to me
more than about God or anything like that.
INTERVIEWER: Yes. So lets say you have a client who is unwilling, somebody comes
to you stating that they dont really know what their goals are or they have these goals
that arent really true goals, how do you help them figure out what their goals are?
PARTICIPANT #4: Well, I would just start with business and financial first. So I just
work out what their budget is, how much they need to make, how many deals they need
to do for that, and that would bring us down to activity, you know how much activity
they will need simply to make the bills and get the business. Once they have some type
of stability there, that typically opens up other pieces. I dont think theyll ever get past
stability if they dont look at the other three goals. But if they cant start, I just start with
how much money they need to live and I go from there.
INTERVIEWER: So you always start with that and dont worry about the personal stuff?
PARTICIPANT #4: That will come later and then I might ask them about the family and
do they spend time or would they like to spend more time.
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INTERVIEWER: Lets get more into that; the personal goal setting. What do you do
about that? Is that different than the business stuff?
PARTICIPANT #4: Not really. I mean once the business and the finances are up and
running, sometimes Ill bring in hey what do you like to do for yourself? What are your
hobbies? Tell me about the family. How often do you see them? How often would you
like to see them? I think everybody has goals. I think most people just I think a lot of
people think the small goals are too small. Like I always used to think with family I had
to write these big audacious goals about having this incredible family where the reality of
it was I just needed to write a goal that was for the once a week.
INTERVIEWER: Or take Saturday off to be with your significant other or something?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. I never saw that as a goal. That was just something that I was
supposed to do. But most of the time you werent doing it because it wasnt something
that was considered a priority. So I start very basic there and then as they get used to
that, then they expand on what they want because then it suddenly makes sense.
INTERVIEWER: Do you see a correlation between a client thats willing to set goals
and the success that they have?
PARTICIPANT #4: No. Not really.
IINTERVIEWER: So you have clients who are unwilling to set goals but they are still
successful?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes. I have some people who are highly, highly motivated; they
just dont know where theyre going. But they are highly motivated.
INTERVIEWER: You write down their goals eventually, dont you?
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PARTICIPANT #4: Everybody has at least a couple of goals. We have too because we
cant do anything if we dont know how much we have to make. So everybody that I
speak to I know how much money they need to make.
INTERVIEWER: But isnt that part of your job here is helping them determine their
goals?
INTERVIEWER: And does that affect their success, once they know what the goal is?
PARTICIPANT #4: Absolutely, but all I have to do is keep them into those two goals.
The other three are their choice. If they want to take me to personal, if they want to take
me to financial, if they want to take me to
INTERVIEWER: Well, here Im just talking about the business part now. So lets say
you have somebody that just cant put their finger on what their goal is, theyre kind of
about how much money they need every year, and then you have clients that are better at
setting goals than other ones right?
PARTICIPANT #4: But I dont think thats something you can be vague about because
even if you dont know how much money you have to make, then I get them to send me
their bills and we work on what their budget is.
INTERVIEWER: But lets say you have a client that is your worst goal setter, right,
about business? Then you have a client thats your best goal setter. Is the clients thats
the best goal setter, is he more successful than the one that is the worst goal setting.
PARTICIPANT #4: I think its more to do with drive. Im terrible at setting goals but I
would say I was one of the more driven people in here. I mean Im here before most and
Im out after most.
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INTERVIEWER: So for you, with the coaching, the goal setting isnt that important.
PARTICIPANT #4: No. Im not saying that. Im just saying that its more to do with
drive than goals and people that are very driven might not know where they are going,
but if they have the basic steps of
INTERVIEWER: What Im talking about is acknowledgement of a goal. Does that help
you succeed in achieving that goal?
PARTICIPANT #4: It depends on what circle. As I say, in business if you know that
you have to make $100,000.00 and you need to make 25 deals to make $100,000.00 and
we break that down to 25 deals over a year, thats two deals a month. So we know weve
got to make 25 calls a week. But weve got 200 people in the database and were willing
to do more than 25, then we can do stretch goal and people that are motivated are going
to be highly challenged for that. Someone who is not motivated is simply going to go,
well I only need to make $100,000.00 so Ill just stick with that and Ill do less. It comes
from the end thing of the goal and what thats going to bring for them and the life that
they can have with that. So that pulls them out. But I dont think its the goal that makes
them more successful or not; its how theyre driven and how theyre wired.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, so the situation you are in here is a distance-learning type of
situation. Do you think thats different than if the clients were coming in in person and if
so tell me whats different about it?
PARTICIPANT #4: I just think a lot of people that are in real estate naturally, they blag.
They will tell you theyre doing something and theyre not really doing it.
INTERVIEWER: They brag?
PARTICIPANT #4: They blag. Theyll blag it out. So theyll say
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INTERVIEWER: What does this word blag mean?
PARTICIPANT #4: Theyll say theyre doing something but theyre not really. Like if
you say did you do your calls, theyll say yes. But they were supposed to do 25 and they
did 2. Because you didnt get specific theyll say yes. So then youve got to get more
specific to find out, well who did you call? I think if youre right there in front of them,
you can work on time management so they can understand it right there in front of you
and you can maybe even mirror them for a day and find out how much time they are
wasting. I think if you start with them and youre looking at call, like a lot of times when
I am coaching somebody if I dont trust them, I feel like they are lying to me about how
many calls theyll make. Ill say hey, listen, you just called Shirley another call and well
do it right there on the phone. And you can tell instantly by their reaction, if they dont
want to do it, that they havent really called Shirley.
INTERVIEWER: Uh, huh.
PARTICIPANT #4: So I think if you were there in person, I think you could do that a
lot more. You could through them under a lot more. So they could face a lot of the stuff
that they dont do.
INTERVIEWER: But do you think theres anything thats improved because youre not
in the same room as them?
PARTICIPANT #4: Absolutely, yeah. I think if you have a close relationship where
they sit right next to me it does shift the relationship because its no longer focused on a
30 minute conversation of what are we doing? What do we do, how do we get to next
place? It can get more convoluted because it becomes a friendship or it becomes
something else. It can depending on the boundaries of the coach.
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INTERVIEWER: But do you think theres anything that would be improved if it was in
person though?
PARTICIPANT #4:
Yeah, like thats what I said earlier. Thats what I think would be
improved. That you could be right there and work on time management with them.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, OK so its certain skill things that you wanted to walk them
through.
PARTICIPANT #4:
Yeah
INTERVIEWER: So the last question is, just walking me through a typical coaching
call.
PARTICIPANT #4:
See for me I dont think there is a typical call. But again thats
because I am wired to just work in a typical way. For me I always address how did last
week go? Where did you get on, where did you stumble? I dont go in with agendas
typically unless there is an agenda through a campaign or an agenda because of the time
of the year. But I typically start with how did you do last time on the action steps? What
got in the way, where did you find success?
INTERVIEWER: Theres no chit chat at the beginning of the call?
PARTICIPANT #4:
Just a little, how did you do how was your week?
INTERVIEWER: Not very much, though, youre not very chatty?

PARTICIPANT #4:
For me I build that right from the start. I work hard on the first few
calls and build that into the call. Youve got 30 minutes with these people.
INTERVIEWER: Typically you get right to business?
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PARTICIPANT #4:
Especially in this market, in the last couple of years its just all been
business. I would say a couple of years ago the coaching calls were a lot lighter. Now
there is no lightness because you have to go so quickly into business.
INTERVIEWER: So the first thing you start out with is how did you do last week on the
action steps that I gave you to do last week?
PARTICIPANT #4:
What they set last week, its not always what I gave them. How did
they do last week, we go over problems we go over successes. We go over what was their
biggest challenge this week? And them we set the next ones for the following week. The
next action steps, I typically go over their website so I find out where are they with the
pending clients? Where are the potential clients? How often are we calling them?
Because I always have to heave them hunting and farming. So I always want to know
where is their hunting; because the calls, notes and pop-byes typically go after the
farming piece but not the hunting piece. So I always go to the website and go through
pendings and actives.
INTERVIEWER: Define hunting for me.
PARTICIPANT #4:
hunting to me is somebody thats in pending, so in escrow or
theyre looking for a house right now. I am hinting those clients right now because they
are going to give me the biggest amount of referrals. Farming is my database and my
pool where I have got an established foundation.
INTERVIEWER: So its more of a vague thing? Its not something you are going to eat
that day?
PARTICIPANT #4:
Its something that you are building a foundation and you are
solidifying your business on over time. But over here that hunting piece is something
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where you are getting more business immediately. You cant have a business that is just
farming. Because you are not eating right now, you are constantly eating 3 months out
and you cant just have a business with hunting because then there is no foundation
either. So I think you have to bring in both. So I always go over pendings and actives and
potentials. Where are they with them, who is moving who is not.
INTERVIEWER: So youre looking at the business numbers a lot.
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes, all the time.
INTERVIEWER: And what about the goals do they ever get reset?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes, if like if we have already hit 25 deals and they wanted 27 for
the year we look at their average for the month, we look at what their average
commission is, we reset, and see if they agree to it.
INTERVIEWER: So you typically make the goal bigger than it initially was?
PARTICIPANT #4: Oh, always, if they are already there absolutely you have to.
INTERVIEWER: But what if its looking like they are not going to make their goal, do
you ever draw back a little?
PARTICIPANT #4: No, not typically unless they are saying there is no way I can do
this.
INTERVIEWER: Even when this market turned bad, you didnt back them off their
goals?
PARTICIPANT #4: Typically no because its still a numbers game so we changed our
numbers, we changed the amount of contact but your number doesnt have to change.
Your database sometimes does. So sometimes its not realistic.
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INTERVIEWER: So you are saying they stepped up the proactive activities that they
did because of the low market and you brought the goal of how many deals they were
going to close down but you brought the goal up of how much work that was going to
take?
PARTICIPANT #4: The activities, yes. The deals are still out there. I mean this is 5th
best year in real estate so the deals are still out there; you just have to work harder to get
them. So you are going to find out who really wants to work hard and who is in it because
they thought real estate was easy. This market its just really pulled out the people that
got in because they wanted to make a lot of money and its pulled out the people that
really want to do it for a living and help people. So for me I havent changed that aspect
of the goals its just been changing activities.
INTERVIEWER: For you, you are thinking of the goal more as how much work I want
to do rather than I want to make x number of dollars?
PARTICIPANT #4: To me you cant think of outcomes, you have to think of actions. So
you can think about I want to make 150 thousand all you want but if youre not making
the 8 calls a day or the 25 calls a week.
INTERVIEWER: So for you the action step is more important than the financial goal?
PARTICIPANT #4: Yes, in the short term absolutely. I only address goals quarterly, I
dont address them on every call unless I have client that says hey I only made 12 calls
this week, I cant do 25. The I say well listen, we know the action is 25 to make you a
hundred thousand, if you only want to do 12 can you live on 50 thousand? If the answer
is no then what are you going to do to make your goal different? But that is the only time
I bring it in there on a regular basis, otherwise I just keep it to quarterly and we address
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where we are. But its very much an action piece. To me my job is there to promote
action. Its not there to develop goals, its there to promote action.
INTERVIEWER: Well that was an interesting interview for me.
PARTICIPANT #4: Different?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, a little bit different.
PARTICIPANT #4: Really?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
PARTICIPANT #5
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching?
PARTICIPANT #5: Gosh. What is my definition of coaching? My true definition of
coaching is being of assistance to people to move forward, helping them to come to their
own ideas and conclusions, being a support so that people can make their own changes,
not making them for them but giving them the tools and support they need to move
forward in whatever area of life theyre working in.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you feel that differs if you were a teacher?
PARTICIPANT #5: Teaching is, in my opinion, heres all the information, you know,
heres the textbook, were going to learn it, were going to test on it, and were going to
help you to move forward. Coaching I think is less structured than teaching as I see it in
the mainstream kind of teaching; but helping people to move forward at their own pace,
what works for them, giving them the tools but its not so much, Okay, heres all the
material and we are going to test on them tomorrow.
INTERVIEWER: They call this business coaching. How would you define business
coaching?
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PARTICIPANT #5: Business coachingand Ive done both; I did life coaching prior to
coming in. Business coaching is a bit more structured and certainly our model is more
structured and thats the goal of the model is to give small business owners structure. So
here at the company, we do have a structured model that we follow. We take that
structured model and again tailor it to each person because they can only move at the
speed with which they are naturally equipped to do. So we give them the tools. We help
them to move forward within a more structured environment.
INTERVIEWER: So you had some preparation to become a coach here.
PARTICIPANT #5: Well as it happened, yes, I honestly didnt know that a company like
WCC existed prior to me hearing about them.
INTERVIEWER: But you were a life coach before?
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes. I am certified as a life coach. I had my own life coaching
business, loved the work, but I didnt like working on my own. And like I said, I just
didnt know something like this existed and as soon as I discovered it I sent my resume in
and I was on it because I wanted to connect with other coaches.
INTERVIEWER: So you get clients in and you have relationships with them over
months and years, so theres a process there, a coaching process, not the business process
but the coaching process. Could you describe that?
PARTICIPANT #5: Of getting to know one another and the trust and things like that?
INTERVIEWER: All of that. So Im a new client. How does that typically go for you?
PARTICIPANT #5: Here, or in general?
INTERVIEWER: In general.
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PARTICIPANT #5: Here is a lot different than I did it in my own practice; so here we
start with an initial call. Its an hour long. Specifically how I do those is I want to find
out as much about the person and the business as I possibly can.
INTERVIEWER: When you did it on your own; how was that different?
PARTICIPANT #5: I did a different type of intake session with people that was a little
more abstract. I still find out a lot of concrete information about them but it was a little
bit more abstract in getting to know the person and helping them to get to know
themselves a little bit more.
INTERVIEWER: But here you have a call thats twice as long as a regular call; the first
call.
INTERVIEWER: In your practice was your initial contact with the client--PARTICIPANT #5: It was about two hours. So it was again twice as long as a normal
call.
INTERVIEWER: So your normal calls were an hour.
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes, about an hour.
INTERVIEWER: And were they more frequent than the calls you do here.
PARTICIPANT #5: I gave the clients the option to work with me between one and four
times a month for an hour which I included in their budget and their time parameters.
INTERVIEWER: And that was over the phone?
PARTICIPANT #5: Mostly. But for people who were in the local area and wanted to
have sessions in person, I allowed that as well.
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INTERVIEWER: So now youve got the client in and how does the next couple of
months go?
PARTICIPANT #5: Here, the next couple of months in the beginning were on a pretty
structured schedule. So the first call is to get to know the business, help them with first
steps to creating their database, connecting with their database, all that good stuff. The
second call here, we usually go through a net income worksheet and determine their goals
and how many activities it is going to take to get to those goals. On the third call here we
usually show them around the website. And then fourth, going forward, whatever is up in
the persons business, whatever needs to be discussed is discussed.
INTERVIEWER: And then that is the way it goes on for the rest of the life cycle of the
coaching thing?
INTERVIEWER: So, you have some fishing stories about certain clients? Like if I was
one of your family members who you hadnt seen in awhile and they want to hear stories
from your coaching job, do you have any stories you tell them about coaching?
PARTICIPANT #5: If I do, its never with a name attached to it.
INTERVIEWER: We dont want a name here, but say you had this client and they did
this and it was a success or wasnt a success.
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes. There are definitely clients who stand out more than others for
positive and negative reasons.
INTERVIEWER: Well, just tell me a nondescript story.
PARTICIPANT #5: Ive got to think of whos a good example. I have them every day.
Right now were doing the summertime surge, so weve got our clients on a business plan
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that the boss wrote which helps them out; it helps us out, and one of the weeks was doing
pop eyes to their customer base; so I had a client that went and did a pop eye, spent $2.20
on a pop eye, it was ketchup, mustard and relish, really cute, popped by one of their
business associates who was owner of a pretty sizeable office; Im not sure what the
business was, but when they popped by with this very insignificant, small, you know, it
didnt cost a lot but meant a lot to the person, he actually invited her and her partner
(theyre both realtors) to come back and teach a first-time home buyer seminar to a large
group of people within the office that were considering buying their first home.
INTERVIEWER: A lot of potential clients there.
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes. Lots of potential clients there and it all came from just
contacting a client. So that was a huge success.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about some things you do as a coach that work well. Youve
got some things that you use all the time with your clients?
PARTICIPANT #5: Yeah, definitely keeping them connected to the basics works really
well, holding them accountable. We have a phenomenal website that we provide for
them and the more connected to the website they are the better they do. I try to get all my
clients, my most successful clients track everything they do; they track all the business
that comes in and out. I would say that while tough love comes in handy from time to
time and is necessary from time to time, I get my most success from acknowledging my
clients really pointing out what theyve done well and whats working for them.
INTERVIEWER: So emphasizing the positive works well with you.
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes and thats why I was
INTERVIEWER: What doesnt work well?
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PARTICIPANT #5: Just things that I think are common sense, being hurtful to the
clients, being unkind.
INTERVIEWER: So you mentioned you are a certified coach and youve had some
training here and you got that certification. Do you have any less formal training or have
you ever been involved in sports or anything like that?
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes. I was involved in sports in high school.
INTERVIEWER: What sport did you do?
PARTICIPANT #5: I did a lot of them. I did tennis, track, soccer; what else did I do? I
guess that was it.
INTERVIEWER: So the training youve had as a coach, youve had coach training here
and you had training to get your certification. Is there any example you can give of using
that training on this job?
PARTICIPANT #5: A lot. Well first of all I think its what got me the job because I was
already certified as a coach coming in so they knew I could handle the requirement of the
position. But I use it every day. I was actually certified in a model that was all about
acknowledging people for what they were doing well. So I use that all the time.
INTERVIEWER: We talk about goal-setting a lot with clients. Tell me about that with
coaching.
PARTICIPANT #5: We have a whole section of the website for setting goals. I believe
its one of the most important pieces of it because its what keeps the clients going
through the emotional highs and lows; so I try to work with them on their goals on a very
regular basis.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever set the goals for the client?
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PARTICIPANT #5: I set action steps for them and I help them to set their goals, but I
dont
INTERVIEWER: But you always dig it out of them, pretty much?
INTERVIEWER: This is a distance-learning situation. Is there anything different about
this? You had some in-person coaching clients before. Did you do your work any
differently?
PARTICIPANT #5: Its always a different experience in person than over the phone
because you can see someones body language, you can see facial expressions, you can
see when a shadow crosses their face and when something is not sitting well with them
whereas you dont have that opportunity on the phone.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something better about it being on the phone?
PARTICIPANT #5: Its more convenient. It allows you to facilitate more conversations
in a day.
INTERVIEWER: Other than not being able to read the body language, is there
something that suffers because its distance?
PARTICIPANT #5: No. I dont think so.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. The last question is just walking me through a typical coaching
call.
PARTICIPANT #5: A typical coaching call is a half hour. I always like to have my
people start with successes, so we meet twice a month. So I ask them their successes
over the last couple of weeks. That will usually lead into a discussion of whats going on
for them.
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INTERVIEWER: Which could get into negative stuff?
PARTICIPANT #5: Which could get into challenges and stuff. I usually whenever I go
into a coaching call, I look at the notes from the time before and then I structure my
agenda based on the notes.
INTERVIEWER: So with your call there is a certain amount of preparation for the call
than whats, you get them on the phone, whats going on, and then youre in the middle
of the call.
PARTICIPANT #5: Right. I start with successes. I always go over at some point during
the call the action steps from the time before; whether they got it done or whether they
didnt get done; what got in the way.
INTERVIEWER: At some point, not at the end necessarily.
PARTICIPANT #5: No. Usually its in the middle of the call. I always start with
successes.
INTERVIEWER: Youre the first person thats said that.
PARTICIPANT #5: Going over the previous action steps, the ones from the call before.
INTERVIEWER: Oh!
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes. So well talk about those. At the end of the call, yes, I will
then assign them again for the next time.
INTERVIEWER: Action steps?
INTERVIEWER: And typically you are the one assigning the action steps; they are
not
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PARTICIPANT #5: Theyll tell me too. Ill ask them for their feedback, but I take
notes.
INTERVIEWER: But you tend to be more the proactive person on the action steps?
PARTICIPANT #5: Yes. Ill pick up on things during the call that I think would be
something good for them the next step.
INTERVIEWER: So you put the goal setting on them, but you kind of take the ball on
the action steps?
INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else you want to mention about the coaching call?
PARTICIPANT #5: I mean its a very organic process. You never know what youre
going to walk into so I can have the best-laid plans, but if the client is totally sideways in
their business, or something has happened personally, I am not going to be a Nazi and
totally stick to the agenda. You know, Ill work with whats going on for them, but I
always make sure that whatever we discuss they leave knowing that they have a plan for
the next two weeks.
INTERVIEWER: So its always wrapping up with some kind of plan, action steps?
PARTICIPANT #5: Always. Theres no point to have a call if you dont give them next
assignments.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, thats it.
PARTICIPANT #5: Oh thanks. Wow!
PARTICIPANT #6
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PARTICIPANT #6: My definition of coaching? I guess I have to go by the company
definition of coaching which would be guiding, instructing, coaching someone through
working by referral. My definition of it would be teaching and coaching somebody
through the principles of working by referral, goal-setting.
INTERVIEWER: But really, coaching isnt always working by referral.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. In this context, the core foundation is more about teaching
them how to be an effective sales person; how to generate leads.
INTERVIEWER: But even that is like pretty specific about sales you know. If you were
like thrown into like a football game and you were the coach. A football game is a bad
example but say you were coaching somebody that wasnt in sales; like your were
coaching an executive on management or something, what would your definition of
coaching be in that context?
PARTICIPANT #6: To pull out of them more than they can do themselves.
INTERVIEWER: Thats a good answer there. This is different than teaching because in
teaching youve got the trombone from Charlie Brown death by Power Point type thing,
right?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yeah. You know, I think its got pieces of teaching in it because
youve got to teach the application of, you know, the principle or
INTERVIEWER: Thats where you get to working by referral.
PARTICIPANT #6: Then its going in and just getting experiential knowledge of what
youre doing, going out there, running into a road block, coming back, examining,
making adjustments and going in and hitting it again time after time after time until you
get the growth that you want.
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INTERVIEWER: So youre kind of asking them to think for themselves a little more
than you would if you were just teaching them something by rote then.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Very much so, because when you first start coaching
somebody, theyre really kind of dependent on you to walk them through, i.e., heres how
you get from A to B, then B to C. But after they start to learn the fundamentals, in order
for them to grow you want a client to become less dependent on you for guidance from
step to step, so they can start to
INTERVIEWER: Theyre making up their own steps.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. They get creative on their own; they learn to adapt. And when
they start to do that, they see growth a lot faster and they can move to the next step. If we
have to guide them every step of the way, you know, its basically teaching somebody.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. I think we got that one pretty good. So then, the third part of
drills down to what you think business coaching is as opposed to all this other stuff.
PARTICIPANT #6: As opposed to general coaching, business coaching is just a more
intense focus on the business, depending on what their position is or what their job
description is, but helping them to reach their own job description more effectively.
INTERVIEWER: Thats a really good point there that you make. So did you have any
preparation for this job? Youre technically a business coach here. Did you have some
preparation for that?
PARTICIPANT #6: Not prior to coming here. No.
INTERVIEWER: You were trained here on the job?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. I was trained here on the spot. You know, I got to use a lot of
the skills I learned through the military, through counseling and stuff like that. But this
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was such a specific unique job that there was really no way to prepare for it other than
coming in and learning it.
INTERVIEWER: And theyve had success with people who didnt have coaching
training more so than theyve had with people who were locked into some coaching
model. Ive heard theyve had trouble with some of them.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. You know, I dont have the degree that applies to anything
that we do.
INTERVIEWER: Or a certification or anything?
PARTICIPANT #6: No.
INTERVIEWER: They do have things like that. There is a process to coaching. Weve
talked about that a little bit, but would you like to elaborate on it?
PARTICIPANT #6: The process to coaching. Thats a big one. I think when you look
at the process of someone coming in to coaching, like I said, its getting down to the
understanding of what the systems are, specifically here. You are talking about business
coaching here or just the process in general?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, the process of coaching in general.
PARTICIPANT #6: I think the process of coaching in general is understanding the goal
and getting a clear understanding of
INTERVIEWER: So I know about how weve got this application set up on the web
where they set goals, they track how theyre doing on those goals, and they track their
sales figures after that. So do you think the key thing is setting those goals and then
seeing how youre doing on those goals.
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PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Regardless of whether its business coaching, football, you
know, teaching managers. Its understanding the why, what you hope to achieve out of
this, breaking it down into manageable steps.
INTERVIEWER: So if you were thrown into another environment where you were a
coach and it was totally something you were unfamiliar with, you would still say, Lets
set a goal; lets track the goal, and see how you did on that.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. I think I could really do well in just about any setting like that.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have some experiences while you were coaching that you
would like to throw into this, some unique thing that has happened while youve been
coaching?
PARTICIPANT #6: In my whole coaching experience, and Ive been here seven years in
September, and each client, each situation is very unique. Its hard to fine-tune a skill
and apply it the same way to everybody that you coach. There is so much creativity and
so much winging it along the way. You refine your skills in how you apply, you know,
systems; but when it comes to the human element and how people see things, how theyre
wired, youre starting all over.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, thats a good answer there, that its kind of unique, every
situation. So have you done some things that really work well as a coach, that youve
learned that works really good every time?
PARTICIPANT #6: For the most part. There is no absolute in anything that we do.
You know, youre always going to be thrown
INTERVIEWER: But tell me one of the things that you use all the time.
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PARTICIPANT #6: Well one of the things Ive had to learn that has helped me, because
its not natural for me since Im more of a big picture, global thinker, is being very
specific and drawing out very specific answers and details from people. You know,
normally if a client years ago would tell me they wanted to go do this, I would have told
them to go ahead and get after it and talk to me in a couple of weeks, let me know how it
went and well see how many wins you had and what challenges you ran into..
INTERVIEWER: But the specific thing is the key element there?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. You know, getting a client to think about solutions. I mean
its important to look at a goal down the road and understand what youre going after and
why youre going after it. But then to sit down and go through the analytical process
like, okay if I want to get there what steps do I need to take. And not everybody is wired
like that. Im not wired like that. Ive had to build the skill in that. So if a client now
tells me, I want to go and do this. Im like, okay, when are you getting started, whats
your first step, who do you need to talk to, who needs to know about this? You know,
how much time are you going to need?
INTERVIEWER: Step by step by step.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes and its really drilling them down with questions, but that draws
out more of them to actually be able to go and achieve the goal.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. You know, I started teaching a few years and I came in with all
these lofty ideas and I found a couple of things didnt really work well. Did you try
something like when you first got started that you found out wasnt really working well
and you quit doing that?
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PARTICIPANT #6: Being extremely rigid. You know, people think about systems and
they expect it to look like a road map and that road map is going to be the same for
everybody.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Im going to try to move you along a little bit because we are
down to five minutes, but in that first part you were giving me some really good stuff, so
I wanted to let you go on that. So we already talked about this. You didnt really have
coach-specific training except for military things and like management type training.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes, and counseling.
INTERVIEWER: And the next question is about less formal training, not really; the stuff
here is very formal.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes, its very formal, very organized.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any examples of how the military training prepared you
for this job?
PARTICIPANT #6: It gave me structure in my own life in things that I learned from
heres how you shine your shoes to heres how you iron clothes, and to be specific with
the details, to put that into kind of a work application. It took me awhile to make that
transition but everything is applicable. Its all about the details.
INTERVIEWER: You had like a step-by-step thing you did in the military and were you
able to use that in other situations?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes and you know you learn so many things and I think one of the
biggest things I learned in the military that really helped me here is perseverance, you
know, not giving up when you are faced with a challenge and its survive or die; knowing
to go and make the hard decision, buckle down and do what you need to do.
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INTERVIEWER: So do you ever have trouble getting your clients to set goals?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes, all the time.
INTERVIEWER: How do you get them more involved in that?
PARTICIPANT #6: We have a profile that we keep for every client that breaks down
how they are wired and I try to speak more to their profile, because you know not
everybody
INTERVIEWER: So you use that Heritage Profile?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes, I use the profile and their perspective; some people are more
long-term focused and some people are more short-term focused and they need all
aspects of it, but they dont always see it based on how they are wired.
INTERVIEWER: So with the clients that are unwilling or unable to set goals, you kind
of have to push their buttons a little bit to get them to do it?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. And sometimes they will set goals without even realizing that
theyve set goals.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think the end results the clients get are directly related to their
goal-setting efforts?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. As a coach, if you cant pin somebody down on why they
want to do get somewhere or why they want to do something, whenever the journey is
going to become challenging for them, if they dont think its important enough they are
going to quit.
INTERVIEWER: So, sometimes you have a client that just wont set any goals and then
you have to do it for them, right?
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INTERVIEWER: So how do you determine what those goals are?
PARTICIPANT #6: Its going to come out of why they decided to come here most of the
time. You know, I have had situations where they just flat-out refuse to set goals and
they are no longer here.
INTERVIEWER: And do you have techniques that you use all the time to actually teach
the client something as opposed to coaching them?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Weve got a lot of different tools that we use from the web site
to give them visual tools, auditory tools, videos
INTERVIEWER: So you are not only using the telephone, but you are leveraging that
web application too?
PARTICIPANT #6: The web application, e-mails, going on-line.
INTERVIEWER: So this brings up that we are in a distance-learning type situation here
and if you had somebody that you were coaching in person, would there be something
different that you would do? If they were like walking in the door and you saw them
every week.
PARTICIPANT #6: You know, sometimes I think it would be easier to coach them faceto-face, kind of be a fly on the wall, to be able to see their habits and what they do. I
think at times there might be an advantage to that and sometimes I think it would be a
disadvantage. Having a bit of distance helps you to have more of a birds-eye view or
perspective. Its similar to having a spouse tell you something. If they are right there
with you all the time, you start to become more aware of what they are telling you to do
and resistant to that, but if you have somebody who is on the outside explaining or
telling
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INTERVIEWER: So coming in here would be something like going to the dentist kind
of deal where you would kind of be dreading it but on the phone its not really that big of
a deal.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yeah. I think so. I think having distance and being able to coach
somebody
INTERVIEWER: But is there anything that suffers from them being far away?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Sometimes not being able to see what theyre doing on a dayto-day basis, what theyre saying in their conversations, sometimes that can be a
challenge because they could be saying they are doing one thing but when they actually
go out there and they are applying it, it can be something totally different.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had them face-to-face here, is there something you would do
differently?
PARTICIPANT #6: No.
INTERVIEWER: You would pretty much do it the same way?
PARTICIPANT #6: Id do it the same way, but youd just be able to observe them in the
process and see to a deeper level what theyre doing.
INTERVIEWER: And so you dont really see that there is something that would be
better if it was in person?
PARTICIPANT #6: I think for the very short-term, seeing habits, subconscious things
that they do and theyre not aware of what they do because whenever anyone tells you,
Heres whats going on, there is their perspective and then theres the truth and they are
not always aware of the truth.
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INTERVIEWER: So its harder for you to get that out when youre not looking them in
the eye.
INTERVIEWER: We already kind of hit on this, i.e., is there anything special you would
do over the phone, special techniques or anything that wouldnt be applicable in person?
I think were pretty much talking about the tool that you have on the Internet and things
like that.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. I think a lot of those tools if youre in person they might be a
little bit different, but I think everything else applies. Whether theyre focused on
INTERVIEWER: So like if you are in person with somebody you would have more of a
tendency to have just like a piece of paper and write stuff down for them instead of
having them do it.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Or watch them go through the steps themselves in more of the
observing type school.
INTERVIEWER: So you might set them down at a computer and have them fill out the
information, making sure they did it?
PARTICIPANT #6: One thing I have always wanted to do with a client is set up a candid
camera type situation, watch them go through a couple of days, and then let them watch
the video.
INTERVIEWER: Or tape an open house of something like that?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Because there is no better way for them to learn what it really
looks like because its always slightly different than what they
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INTERVIEWER: So that might be something you could still implement in a distance
environment if you had some way of uploading the video. You know, you could like
have a package where you send them a cheap camera and that would be part of their little
box that they got.
PARTICIPANT #6: Right. That might be a pretty handy tool. I dont know that they
would agree to do it that much, but I think if we could get clients to agree to being
videotaped for a few days
INTERVIEWER: You could sell them a $50.00 camera for $100.00 bucks that way.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yeah!
INTERVIEWER: Lastly, could you just tell me what a typical coaching call is like.
PARTICIPANT #6: A coaching call would be having a little small talk, you know, being
relational with them
INTERVIEWER: Trying to make them comfortable.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Getting them comfortable and finding out whats going on in
their life without going down a rabbit trail too much; also going back to previous action
steps. In every coaching call I do, I always start off with what have been their wins, their
successes, their accomplishments, based on how theyre wired.
INTERVIEWER: So you are focusing on the positive?
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. Starting off on a positive note is a lot of times is a hard thing
for them. It might have been a hard couple of weeks and they dont know that they had
any wins. Well, did you generate any leads? Well yes, I generated a couple of leads.
Did you get any price reductions? You know I did that too and I made this amount of
Well those are all wins.
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INTERVIEWER: So part of it is convincing a seller to lower the price a little bit which
makes it a little easier to sell the house.
PARTICIPANT #6: Exactly.
INTERVIEWER: So thats a win for a realtor.
PARTICIPANT #6: Yes. And when you can get them to see the successes they had
when they feel like theyve been run through the ringer, it makes it easier for them to
continue to go on. They need to see and acknowledge successes that they have. So I do
that in every coaching call.
INTERVIEWER: Well, this is the first interview and I was pretty concerned whether it
would go well, but I think it went pretty well.
PARTICIPANT #7
PARTICIPANT #7: For me, coaching is teaching, encouraging, guiding, and helping
someone to define their goal and achieve it.
INTERVIEWER: You are the first person thats used the word teaching in that
definition. Do you think theres a difference between teaching and coaching?
PARTICIPANT #7: To me, teaching is a lot about explaining and synergizing and
helping somebody learn. And maybe its because of the kind of coaching we do here
where we have to teach. And this is the only place Ive really coached, specifically, that
way. So in the broad term, as a business coach, we have to teach. If somebody doesnt
know how to do a budget, we have to teach them how.
INTERVIEWER: But you are called a coach, right? So would you call yourself a
business teacher?
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PARTICIPANT #7: No. And when I think about coaching kids, because I did coach a
kids team, we had to teach them certain things on the fundamentals. I mean if they
didnt know how to dribble a basketball and not travel, then we werent coaching them
right. For me, teaching is how do you succeed, you know, if its a fundamental part of
what youre coaching them in? So if youre coaching them in basketball, then you teach
them the rules. So I guess thats a fundamental part. Just because you know the speak
like in the profiles, Im thorough. So I always get down into that.
INTERVIEWER: So a lot of times in your coaching, you focus on the mechanics of the
business by referral and that kind of thing? So if I was going to pick a coach and I
wanted a coach that was just going to let me go off and do whatever I wanted, you might
not be the best coach for me. Youre more of somebody that teaches the mechanics of
the system.
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. And because for me the integrity of what youre hiring me for
is if youre hiring me to be your business coach to work by referral, then I need to make
sure you understand what it means see of the buy-in. But if you say to me, I know I hired
you for that but all I really want to work on is my sales, you know, projections or how
many calls I make and I need to make eight appointments a week, then if we agree to that
and we commit to that then Ill coach you in that. But I think, you know, a lot of my
answers are going to be skewed to what Im working on here you know, because
everything that Im judged on in my performance is the performance of my clients.
INTERVIEWER: So what kind of preparation did you have for the job as a business
coach?
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PARTICIPANT #7: For here I think most of the reason why I was hired here was on my
business experience and I did
INTERVIEWER: Were you involved in real estate before?
PARTICIPANT #7: No I wasnt involved in real estate. I had a background where I
worked in advertising so I had a marketing background, worked in an advertising agency
right out of college and then, from there, I worked at a very entrepreneurial business.
The advertising agency was too.
INTERVIEWER: Where are they located?
PARTICIPANT #7: When I worked for them, we were working on the A&M Records
Lot in Hollywood because that was where our satellite office was. They are based in
Palo Alto. But they are a great entrepreneurial company. When I worked for them
INTERVIEWER: Arent they like kind of geared towards like the Yanni type of music.
PARTICIPANT #7: More acoustic. When they started they were the pure acoustic, like
solo guitar, solo piano, really almost elitist to a point where they were very careful about
what they put out. So I worked for them for four or five years and did a variety of things
but ended up being on the marketing team and doing a lot of management there and
promotion and sales. So when I left there, I went and worked for another company for
nine years where we were very sales-driven and I was a promotion consultant for a
national company. So I did a lot of, kind of what realtors do, work by myself, ongoing
client relationships, get the account, service the radio station; so when I stopped doing
that I had a friend who worked here and she said, You know what its like to work on
your own and to do sales.
INTERVIEWER: So did you live in this area?
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PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, I lived in Carlsbad then. I had moved around before and had
mostly lived in Los Angeles because I went to USC. And then I moved up to Seattle and
back to LA, then back down here. So I think the preparation I had for them when I came
here was just as a business person who was used to an entrepreneurial environment,
having to work on your own. I did my own business for three years too, so I knew that
you had to do your budget as well as make your sales calls. So, to me, I really had no
idea who they were when I came here, but I think they needed people who could talk to
someone who was an independent business person. So my background is more
experiential, but I have taught in some of the jobs that I did before I was training people
and I did a lot of presentations and conducted some groups. So that was probably the
best training for this. I mentored people along the way. I knew how to hire them and I
knew I had to teach them. So it was a little big more of that kind of training, not sports.
INTERVIEWER: The next question is about the coaching process. Here Im not talking
about a single coaching call. Im talking about you getting the client in over the course of
the next few months what thats all about.
PARTICIPANT #7: For me, its all about knowing what their goals are and their
expectations and where they want to grow. So whenever I get a new client, whether they
are brand new to the business or theyre coming from a different coach, I always start
with, what are your goals? Whats important to you? If you look back six months from
now, what do you want to achieve and get them to tell me where they want to go.
INTERVIEWER: Look back six months from now?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well yes, because a lot of that with people is they always talk about
I need to do more. I havent done anything.
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INTERVIEWER: But youre looking forward six months?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well, yes, exactly. If it was six months from now and youre
looking back, you know, what do you want to have accomplished?
INTERVIEWER: What do you want to have seen in the rear view mirror?
PARTICIPANT #7: Right, and I ask them questions based on what we need to do in the
next month. What do you feel is important to you? Where do you feel youre stuck? If
they identify need and something they are committed to and theyre passionate about,
then I know they want a coach. The big thing for me when youre getting someone and
youre coaching them is, What do they want? I cant do anything for them. Coaching
to me is all about helping somebody get there.
INTERVIEWER: So once you get them in there and find out what their goals are, what
do you do after that?
PARTICIPANT #7: Then we start writing the goals and some people have a lot of
background in it; this isnt the first place theyve come. Then with other people you deal
with a lot of resistance and fear. They just dont like writing goals. So it just depends
where everybody is
INTERVIEWER: So when you talk about writing the goals, do you have them put them
in the tracker?
PARTICIPANT #7: Generally, Ill have them write them out. It just depends.
INTERVIEWER: Like in an e-mail or something?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. And then well talk about them and some people will go right
in and write their goals. If they want to do that, thats fine; but generally what I want to
have them do is come up with goals that energize them, not nag them, you know, that
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kind of thing. So we get them attached to that process and, because to me, the coaching,
if a clients in it, it isnt really about their relationship with me; its about them wanting to
get somewhere. It really isnt about the coach. Its them deciding, Okay, this is what I
want and Ill do what I need to do to get there. So thats why I always start with the
goals. Sometimes, theyll say, make $50,000.00. Its like, okay so we want to make
$50,000.00 by when? And you know, we kind of play around with it. How do we
measure it? Is this realistic? But you know, thats the financial, the business goal. There
are always other goals underneath it that help their performance to get there. So there are
usually some other things that we have to get to and that can take about two or three calls
sometimes. But if they dont have that, then they cant go anywhere. Then its just
pointless. Whats the reason for the investment of time? What are they doing between
calls? Because everything about when you have a coaching call is, Okay, what are you
going to do afterwards so when we meet up well be accountable for it? So that is why I
definitely coach towards the goals. Thats my big thing.
INTERVIEWER: Now Id like you to talk about your experiences coaching. And here
Im looking for a fishing story like the boss story about the little old lady on Coronado
with a $2,000,000.00 house that she thought was worth a lot less than that. Tell me some
kind of story like that of maybe success or something you failed at, some client you had
trouble with, somebody you really succeeded with.
PARTICIPANT #7: I dont know. I think what happens with a lot of coaches is they talk
to somebody who is just so ready to quit. Just about every day we have calls from people
who want to quit. I have a client this year who has always been one of my best clients.
He makes usually $400,000.00 to $500,000.00 a year. He was expecting to go to
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$600,000.00 this year and by May of this year he hadnt closed a deal. It was driving him
crazy and I was going crazy too. I couldnt understand it. He was doing everything. He
was working really hard. He had a positive attitude. His market was so tight and to have
to accept those circumstances and for him to be doing that well; I mean for a minute there
I think I doubted myself for a little bit. I mean, how could this guy be doing so badly.
Then he was also doing that and, of course, you know everything changes in May and he
gets all the clients who hes been seeing. Suddenly hes getting the listings and the
buyers and now he is probably close to $150,000.00 now in July. So the momentum is
definitely back for him. And I think he is walker taller and getting better. He is doing
what hes supposed to do.
INTERVIEWER: He had a serious lull there and it had nothing to do with him changing
his tune?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. He had been doing everything. He had been doing every
networking meeting, every contact. Hes a good looking guy.
INTERVIEWER: And maybe even stepping it up because
PARTICIPANT #7: And doing extra; and I was too, with him. I was like, Okay, lets
go over this. Lets check how youre asking for a referral. I think for me the hardest
thing is at times it just doesnt make sense, because we have a lot of data to analyze. So
usually I could see that he was not making enough calls, or not seeing people face-toface, maybe not doing the follow-up contact. So I think for me that was one of the
hardest periods. I would come into work every day and think, Gosh, how am I going to
close a deal. Because it doesnt make sense and I think thats where for us we have to
very faithful. Generally, the kind of people we coach are very capable people and if they
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do the work they do well. So now hes doing great and Im really happy. So there are
situations where it doesnt make sense and I think thats where you kind ofluckily I
had a client who had a lot of faith and had so much success before that he didnt just
decide he couldnt do it anymore and run away. So for me a lot of this too is that Im
really inspired by the caliber of the people we coach. I mean, the people like that.
INTERVIEWER: So when he was making the $450,000.00 a year, did he sock some of
that money away?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. He was responsible with his money. But he also had two kids
in college and a lot of stuff. For him, hes just an exception who definitely has it together
and would probably do well even without us. But most of the time I do coach new
people and I do see people who, you know, get out there, know nothing, dont know any
better, and get out and make $100,000.00.
INTERVIEWER: So youre able to make a significant impact on them, either way?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. I think just to tell people to have faith in the system, that its a
great system if you work it. And you see people doing it and giving excellent service; I
mean if somebody isnt good at it, its not going to work. So I think that, for me, has
been a tough thingto see people who maybe fundamentally are not spelling right or
theyre just bad communicators, and I dont teach that. I mean you have to come in with
some professional skill. So you draw the line or where you can win and where you can
really fight for people. But most of the time, Id say I wouldnt be here if people werent
succeeding. Thats why I work. Were still holding onto our jobs. But the hardest thing
was for someone like that where it didnt make sense and now hes doing really well.
Happy ending!
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INTERVIEWER: So tell me about some things youve done as a coach that didnt work
well.
PARTICIPANT #7: You know its so personal, but I think for me its when I do a lot of
extra check-ins, you know, to really help people. If I feel like, you know, theyre having
a really hard time.
INTERVIEWER: And that hasnt worked well?
PARTICIPANT #7: No, because some people are just not going to help themselves and
there is a point where you just have to let them go. But I mean, there will be people
INTERVIEWER: So you put a lot of extra work in some people and it just wasnt
working?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. Well because they want the relationship and support, but they
dont want to do what they need to do for themselves, and whether its just quitting real
estate and getting a real job. But for me, I figure if I coach and support them and I call
them every week and I send them personal notes of encouragement and I send them a
book, that I
INTERVIEWER: Thats just enough?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well, no. I feel like thats extra. Generally, its just two thirtyminute calls a month. Ill write them a personal note. Its very boom, boom, boom. But
when somebodys like, Im at the end of my rope and I dont know what to do. Then
maybe Ill throw in an extra call. A lot of times if they are financially in trouble we give
them a little extra to encourage them to hope that theyre going like
INTERVIEWER: So they get like a free half-hour call sometimes?
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PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, theyll get some extra time because, you know, I feel like if I
give them a little more that will help them and then well be able to look back on it later.
INTERVIEWER: And youre not getting paid for that?
PARTICIPANT #7: Right. But I think when youre doing this, you want everybody to
win. So if I notice this guys not winning
INTERVIEWER: Sometimes the extra stuff has worked out for you?
PARTICIPANT #7: Sometimes it has, but I think Im getting better at noticing if theyre
doing what they need to be doing. I think in the first two years or so, I was just
thinking
INTERVIEWER: Initially, you just wanted to give away the free stuff all the time?
PARTICIPANT #7: Right, because I thought, oh well, you know this works
INTERVIEWER: So you thought you just had to keep those clients and you were just
going the extra mile to keep them.
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. But I think in the end, and too, I had to realize that people
werent always telling me the truth. They really werent doing all their calls. They really
werent doing their mailing. So it came down to more of like for me I think my coaching
became, Okay, so did you get your mailing out? You know like I really need to see
what theyre doing before I go after them and give them more.
INTERVIEWER: So youve become a little harder about this?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, but its just because for me I cant afford the wear and tear. I
cant spread myself that thin, and I remember another coach saying that to me before too.
You know, its like whenever I give somebody an extra call or I stay late and I want to
write more stuff; whenever I over-deliver like that its usually not going to help. The
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people who dont require that and just stick with the program and appreciate what you
give them, those are the people who are going to be fine. If somebody needs that much
help, then its almost like an enabling thing. Its like, Okay, I still love you. Come on!
You can do it! You can do it! And after that, they stop showing up for calls and they,
you know, keep having like some other thing thats gone wrong and theyre responsible
for a lot of that behavior. And a coach on the phone rallying them isnt going to make a
big difference. So I think it was like, You know, I cant save them. People who work
hard deserve that more. Its kind of like a mindset shift for me. When I would manage
other people I had more responsibility and I was able to help them because I was
physically around them more; maybe thats why I gave them more. When youre in this
kind of a coaching relationship its not the same thing. People have to really be here, and
a lot of coaches are very hard line about it. And thats how they kind of maintain a really
strict schedule and theyre wired a little bit more pragmatically than me. I dont think I
could be that way, but Im a lot better now than I used to it. Its just not practical.
INTERVIEWER: So what have you done that really works well?
PARTICIPANT #7: Its always, you know, Im really good at knowing people. For me,
I take copious notes and Im always asking them and relating things about what they said
before and what they did now and showing them improvement, showing them growth,
quoting back things that theyve told me before and telling them now, because people
really need to know that you know them, that youre seeing them in the process. So for
me its a little bit more about, not the personal information about whats going on with
their kids and their extended families but things like, Okay, this is the first time youve
actually been able to take the day off and turn off your phone. And you know, those
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things that are really small, powerful, life-style changes where theyve been the ones to
really push themselves through it that nobody else really knows aboutthats the stuff
that I think people really want from a coach that isnt necessarily tangible. So for me its
like being able to know and I prepare myself for calls. I really look at where we were the
week before, what I expect them to be at now, and then as I hear them, a little bit more of
the mirroring back. So I think thats probably one of the best things I do.
INTERVIEWER: Have you had some formal education in coaching or coach-specific
education to help you with this job?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. My degree is in journalism and then the training that I received
from my other jobs was always just specific, like kind of marketing seminars, or how to
do the business plan, and that kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: So youre teaching these people how to market, so
PARTICIPANT #7: Im real confident in that, but not so much that
INTERVIEWER: And then youve had some0 training here.
PARTICIPANT #7: A lot of training here, and I read like a book a week. For me, I
dont talk to them about a book unless Ive read it. The clients who I coach are generally
people who read a lot who have backgrounds in other than real estate. Maybe real estate
is like their second job later, so because I approach it more from a whole business
standpoint, I
INTERVIEWER: Second job later in their life?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, a later career. I dont really talk about the transaction or any of
that. Its really just from them as a business owner.
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INTERVIEWER: So the training youve gotten here or the marketing training, do you
have any examples of how youve used that at this job?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well here, you know, all the training has been specific to
understanding what the demands are.
INTERVIEWER: The system?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. What the demands are actually on realtors, brokers, so that
training has been really good. And then our system the training here has also been about
adapting it to the market. So the training here is great because it gives me all the
additional information I dont really know about working in real estate; but to me its just
like any other business and Im not that intimidated.
INTERVIEWER: What about the Heritage training?
PARTICIPANT #7: The Heritage training has been really helpful and I use that a lot.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me what the Heritage training is all about.
PARTICIPANT #7: The Heritage training is
INTERVIEWER: Just pretend I dont know anything about it.
PARTICIPANT #7: The Heritage training is something that all the clients do. Every
client goes through it. It analyzes the speed that they work, the way they communicate, a
lot of subtle things about how they present themselves, how they approach a problem; so
then they get matched to their coaches by some of that. So for me its all about learning
how to communicate with the client in a way that they are actually going to hear us. And
if I get a profile on somebody and theyre describing a situation and I can see that the
client has certain attributes like theyre rapid (they work really, really fast) then I might
ask them if they think they were really listening. You know, did that happen because you
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were rushing; just to give them a perspective on where they can improve. When
somebody is feeling really down, if they have an attribute that is competitive like a
champion, I know its because they dont feel like they are winning. So we have to
address where they are winning, talk about their successes and track that every day so
they can see it and keep themselves on track. So thats important because it helps me to
be a lot faster prescribing to them and also to help them understand why theyre
frustrated. It helps give perspective, because when youre inside it you cant see it.
INTERVIEWER: So when youre on the coaching call, do you actually have the
Heritage profile up on your screen.
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, I have it in the file. I look at it every time Im on a call. I
dont do a call unless I have it.
INTERVIEWER: You have it up there or do you have it printed out?
PARTICIPANT #7: No, I have it in a file.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you have it printed out?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, I have it printed out in a file.
INTERVIEWER: Because you only have like one screen.
PARTICIPANT #7: Right, because I use the screen to look at their web site or the web
site were working off of and ask them questions about the data on there. Then I also
expect them to have it up at the same time so we can talk about it. And well go over
whether they know who all their potential transactions are, have they been in touch with
them. It just gives me a way to gauge how much they really are doing; if they are just
talking or if theyre giving me facts.
INTERVIEWER: So lets elaborate on the goal setting.
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PARTICIPANT #7: Okay. For us, we have an initial call. We talk about goals. We
eventually come up with goals, and part of what we have on the web site is we have ways
where they track their business transactions and then they have another page where they
track their activities and they have another page where they have their Five-Circle goals
which is what I want them to start with.
INTERVIEWER: What are the Five-Circle goals?
PARTICIPANT #7: The Five-Circle goals are all the circles, spiritual, family, business,
financial, and personal. So we always have business goals because that is where we are
really hoping they will get the first results from using our system. And then there is
also
INTERVIEWER: Do you tend to focus on the business goals?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, we do focus on the business goals. Some people will come in
and the first thing they will say is, You know, I need to spend more time with my
family. So then well talk about, Okay, the family is your goal. What does that look
like to you? Well, I dont take a day off. Okay, so what is it that we want to do? Do
you want to take a day off? How do you see it? Well, I want to take Sundays off.
So then well write a goal on the family. Circle if, you know, I dont work Sundays.
And then we kind of start So they usually compliment the business circle or its in the
personal circle, I dont exercise.
INTERVIEWER: But they could take away from the business circle, right?
PARTICIPANT #7: No, theyre always going to compliment the business because
whenever somebody doesnt work well its because of something else.
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INTERVIEWER: But what if they cant do an open house on Sundays and they have a
really good opportunity to do an open house.
PARTICIPANT #7: Maybe its not the best opportunity for them. Its the way their
mindset is, because there is always another opportunity if youre making the right choice
and thats the thing about perspective in your business. It isnt the one deal; its your
whole business. So if you dont get a day off, then youre going to miss out on some
really good opportunities because you burn out and then you resent your clients, you
dont go after the business enthusiastically because youre like, Oh, this business. Im
afraid to pick up the phone because somebodys going to want me to go to their house at
10 oclock at night. You dont go to someones house at 10 oclock at night. You say,
Ill call you in the morning and well make an appointment. So it just comes down to
thats the difference with our system and somebody else, is you draw the boundaries first
and then you work it around. If its somebody whos not going to want to work with you
unless you work with them at 10 oclock on Sunday, then thats not a good client. So
anybody else will work with you. So when we go on the web site, we always look at the
goals. We say, Okay, have you looked at you goals? I want them to look at them once
a week. I want them to stay engaged between calls. So thats how I work it in there.
INTERVIEWER: So have you had clients that were unwilling or unable to set the goals?
Sometimes when they first get started they dont really know how to write the goals.
PARTICIPANT #7: Then we just say, Well what is it that you want to work on? What
is one thing that will help you? When they think of it that way, a lot of times we just get
away from goals.
INTERVIEWER: Its more of an action step?
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PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. But because you want them to gain momentum and to feel like
they are winning. A lot of people dont want goals because they dont believe theyre
going to hit them and then they feel bad and guilty and thats why they dont want to do
them. So you want to say thats how we kind of ramp them up. We did this and now
whats the next because goals are constantly changing. Were moving through and were
setting new ones. Its just all about picking where you want to go instead of accepting
that everybody says you should be doing this or this is what I feel like I have to do.
INTERVIEWER: Do you feel like the results the people get are tied to the goal setting?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. Because usually if they accept that they are just going to work
all the time, then they will. If they say theyre going to be intentional and not work
Sundays and then take their family on a vacation to Disneyland, okay, well what is
Disneyland going to cost? Its going to cost $3,000.00, so Im going to close a couple of
deals and book that vacation. So it does, because if they didnt have that then they would
just get in a circle of not caring about anything, theres nothing to look forward to and in
anything, especially sales, youre not just collecting a paycheck, you have to have
incentive.
INTERVIEWER: So they have something to celebrate once theyve achieved that goal?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. They have to have something to celebrate. They have to have
a why, even if it is something like that, because everything the boss talks about too and
how were trained and a lot of people who teach goals is you want to kind of focus on
that emotion of when you win and what youre going to have; thats what gets you to
pick up the phone; thats what gets you to go out and show up and really be professional
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because you are working for something, whether its independence or, you know,
something you want to pass on to your kids as a family legacy.
INTERVIEWER: So do you ever write the goals for the client?
PARTICIPANT #7: Ill be on the call with them and well synergize about it.
INTERVIEWER: If theyre just drawing a blank, do you ever just write a goal for them?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. Ill help them. Ill say, Lets just write one today, and then in
two weeks well see how were doing. What is the one thing that we could do together
that would help you?
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever like just say, Why dont we just make five phone calls
this week?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. If they say, What should I do with my business? Then yeah
like an action step for that, Ill say, Just make five calls. You can do five calls, right?
But on this kind of stuff, they need to have something. Ill ask them to just think about it
and
INTERVIEWER: So you find yourself trying to draw it out of them more than you just
saying, Well, this is your goal.
PARTICIPANT #7: No, on the work stuff, Ill say, Youve got to get the mailing out.
You know, nothing happens if you dont get the mailing out. Is your business so
important that you cant hire somebody for $50.00? So yes, that kind of stuff, the
pragmatic just, you know, youve got to get into work before 12 oclock if you want to
make some money. So what are you going to do? So that stuff we ride them hard on.
But getting a goal, like what is it that you really want to achieve or something that you
want to improve, theyve got to come up with that and then well just process it. You
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know, maybe theyll just write that what they really want is to get more energy and kind
of take better care of themselves. Theyll come up with something. Well whats the first
step to that? Well you know, I want to exercise once a week. Okay, then we want to
help you
INTERVIEWER: So you kind of start with a vague thing and then drill down to a
specific
PARTICIPANT #7: You know, when we talk to them in the beginning, we ask them a
lot of questions like what their ideal business looks like, what is it youre not doing right
now that you think would be an ideal situation for you and then when they talk they
usually always leak something. Ive never been able to do that, so I wish I could do this.
So you have to listen a little bit and then ask them about it. If people are resistant to
addressing what the big problem is then thats going to be an issue, no matter what.
Coaching is helping people to kind of be honest with themselves. It depends, with some
people it goes fast, and with some people it can take a couple of months.
INTERVIEWER: So other than having them set goals, is there any other technique that
you use in coaching to help your client?
PARTICIPANT #7: Just ask a lot of questions. You know like, Tell me, what are some
of your successes? And theyll say, Well, this happened. And Im like, Well, tell me
more about that. It really has to be about them.
INTERVIEWER: You focus on positive stuff?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes, about positive and also if they have something that is, like if
theyre stuck. Because for me I have a lot of momentum in my profile and I want people
to feel like theyre moving forward. It doesnt do them any good to complain.
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INTERVIEWER: Do you ever ask them what has gone wrong during the week?
INTERVIEWER: You would have more of a tendency to ask about what has gone right?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. I always start with the successes because people always lose
that.
INTERVIEWER: So you end the call on what has gone wrong.?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. Its like, Well, what happened? And when they say, Well, I
gave up my day off, Ill say, Okay, let go of that. What do we want to do now? We
learned from that; this is what happened. So what are we committing to now?
INTERVIEWER: So you start out with whats gone right and in the interim you find out
whats gone wrong and then you try to end it on whats gone right or what we can do?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. But sometimes nothing has necessarily gone wrong. But if
theres ever something that comes up
INTERVIEWER: What could go better?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. I mean they have to know that if they had something go wrong
that that is done and they have to move forward with a commitment to something else.
Because life isnt perfect, and theres always going to be all kinds of stuff. But theyve
got to feel like, okay because that happened now I am going to commit to this, this and
this, and then Im going to go to this school. You know, youve got to be real about it.
Nobody can come in and say everything went great. But we dont spend a lot of time
there. Its like, What did we learn and what do we want to do differently?
INTERVIEWER: So this situation that you are in here is called distance-learning?
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INTERVIEWER: So how do you feel that differs from in-person?
PARTICIPANT #7: I think distance-learning is a lot of listening because it is so, you
cant see anybody, so you have to listen very closely. You dont see the
INTERVIEWER: Youve got to fill in the body language?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well, and it really forces people to do some of the things like doing
their data on the computer so I can have that to reference to ask them questions. So rely a
lot on the web site and to be able to also show them things, to teach them by having us
both work on the web site. And then, you know, the one-to-one. Maybe the reason they
thought I was good at this is for 15 years I had relations with people just on the phone.
So I was really good at being able to sustain relations with people for 15 years who I had
never met. So I was
INTERVIEWER: What was this all about?
PARTICIPANT #7: That was when I was working in music, when I worked at Windham
Hill I was the Direction of Promotion. What that was, was there were 200 radio stations
across the country and managers and artists and people that I had to coordinate with and
some radio stations I would call every week just to see if they were playing my record.
And you get relationships with them. Some of them I never met. Most of them I did at
conventions or I would go visit their station. But because I was used to that and I
understood how to work that way, it didnt intimidate me; so that could have been part of
it too. I was very comfortable with being able to sustain a relationship just over the
phone. That is really important. You can get a lot on the phone. You dont really need
to be in person with somebody, but you have to be very careful about the way your voice
intonates, you have to listen, a lot of listening.
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INTERVIEWER: So do you think there is something that is improved because youre
not in the room with these people?
PARTICIPANT #7: I dont know. Improved? I think you can be very effective. I mean
I always knew that I could be very effective just over the phone. If you can sell on the
phone then you can coach on the phone. Some of these people Ive met in person at
events, so I cant say theyve all just been phone conversations.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think there is anything that suffers from the distance?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. I think not in this. I think our coaching is more about
accountability. So we are not hanging out. I actually prefer having a little bit more
distance on that because
INTERVIEWER: But if you had them coming in here, would there be anything you
would do differently?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. I have some local clients who will come in here. I think its
more casual when youre face-to-face. I think when youre at an appointment on the
phone, looking at your computer and listening, you have to pay more attention than when
youre sitting across from somebody.
INTERVIEWER: So that is improved by the distance?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yeah, maybe it is. I really never thought about it, but I think so.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think there is anything you could do differently if they were
coming in here? Is there something you would do differently?
PARTICIPANT #7: I might do more branding, more sales, you know, Talk to me
about, show me your listing presentation, and stand up and give me your elevator
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speech. I might do some training that way because I dont really know how theyre
showing up.
INTERVIEWER: Is there any special technique you use because its over the phone?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. I am very systematic because we have a time line and
everything. So with every client I do the same thing. I call them up and ask about how
they did on their action steps, and ask them to tell me about their successes.
INTERVIEWER: Would you track the action steps the same way if you were in person
with them?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. I would. I think the main reason
INTERVIEWER: So you would sit there and type it on the computer?
PARTICIPANT #7: While theyre sitting there, if I see someone in person, I have a clip
board or something. Ill have a copy of notes and ask them about it.
INTERVIEWER: So thats different than what you would do
PARTICIPANT #7: Yeah, maybe. Sometimes I write by hand when Im on a call. It
just depends on how tired I am of typing on the computer. With some people, I dont
take very many notes because Ive been coaching them for four years and I can
INTERVIEWER: Do they take notes? Do they have the stuff typed in for you already?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well they have notes that they are responsible for knowing what
theyre doing. Every time at the end of a call with one of my clients Ill be, Okay, your
action steps are, you know, 20 pop eyes, send me your PNL by the end of the month and
take Sunday off.
INTERVIEWER: Walk me through a typical coaching call.
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PARTICIPANT #7: I call someone on the phone, Hey, how are you doing? Good. I
can usually tell if something is going on.
INTERVIEWER: Is it always good?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. I mean, its like, oh you know, usually its like, oh you know,
and I say, Alright, lets talk about what has been happening. If theyre really down,
then Ill ask them to talk about some successes, ask them to tell me some things that have
happened. If they say they cant think of anything, I will assure them that they can. And
maybe Ill reference something from the last call like I know that they went to their
daughters baseball game. That must have been great. Then they kind of agree. You
kind of pull them in a little bit more to focus. Then Ill find out how they did on their
action steps and well go through them. I find out if they did the surge and the 20 pop
eyes, and if they got any referrals. Then I might say something like, You know, I
looked on your web site and you havent tracked these, so I couldnt tell if you had any
referrals. They theyll agree to do it after the call. Then, we dont have a whole lot of
action steps, so we talk about how they went. Then itll be How did you do, did you get
to the gym three times a week? I did too. Then Ill ask them to tell me about how
theyre doing with the party. Then Ill pick something and well talk a little bit more
about it just so I can see how theyre moving through it. And some people dont need a
whole lot.
INTERVIEWER: Does the call ever not last the full 30 minutes?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. If theyre rapid and theyve got somewhere they need to go.
Then Ill say, Well, youre on track here. What do you want to see yourself do in the
next two weeks?
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INTERVIEWER: Do you ever feel short-changed by that?
PARTICIPANT #7: Do I?
INTERVIEWER: No. Do they?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well its their decision. And Ill say, Where do you want to go in
the next two weeks? Well, I want to do the surge. I want to take my wife to dinner,
and I want to do this. Ill say, Do you have any questions for me? Do you want any
added accountability? Do you want to send me an e-mail between and let me know you
did your taxes? Yeah, yeah, Ill do that. And Ill say, Where are you going after
this? Well Ive got to go do a listing presentation. Then Ill say, Would you rather
spend the last 15 minutes of our time working on that? Would that help you? I mean Im
happy to talk to you about some more stuff, but would that help you? Yeah, I really
want to go. Ill say, Alright, Ill talk to you in two weeks. If you need anything from
me or if you think of something later, update me. Those people I dont mind you know
a little bit of something in between, but they dont usually need it. They just want
someone to keep them on track. They want to show up to their call. They want you to be
prepared and those people move fast. So it would be worse if they were having to sit on
the phone with me and feel like I was just making them do it. Some people want more
time. Those are
INTERVIEWER: So lets say you go on the full 30 minutes, youre in the call and in the
middle of the call youre doing what?
PARTICIPANT #7: We talk about something thats going on, either the surge or a
project theyre working on. Ill usually know were working on something, maybe their
profile. How are you doing with your scheduling? How many times did you get up on
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time? Hows that working out for you? Do you see a benefit from it? So I always try to
get them to see why were working on what were working on.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have a lot of these people coming in to work at 12 noon?
PARTICIPANT #7: Not so much 12 noon, but if they all have different schedules, lets
say some of them are maybe moms and theyre only working three days a week, they
have to be very intentional about their time.
INTERVIEWER: But some of them work really late, so they might come in at noon, but
they work until 8 oclock at night?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. Its just a matter of depending on what it is theyre working
on. Most of the time, its trying to get them to take a day off. You know, they are
usually overworking.
INTERVIEWER: Most of the time theyre working too hard instead of not enough?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. Usually for these guys.
INTERVIEWER: And maybe not working smart enough?
PARTICIPANT #7: Not working smart, not doing the things like theyre frustrated
because theyre not making the time to do their proactive.
INTERVIEWER: Personal stuff? Oh the proactive.
PARTICIPANT #7: The personal and the lead generation. So its both, because the lead
generation is really personal, because its for them; its their business. Its not taking care
of all the other clients, so its a little of that. But most of the time we go through and I try
to expand a little bit in the middle so we know why were working on what were
working on, help them to see the benefits, and then we do action steps. Then I ask them
if they want any added accountability, if they want to e-mail me or they want to do
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something extra with someone else in their office to keep them on track. Its systematic
that way, so I move through
INTERVIEWER: So you kind of wrap it up with the action steps?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. I wrap it up with the action steps and then Ill ask them where
theyre going now.
INTERVIEWER: So at the end, do the goals change at all?
PARTICIPANT #7: Well in the middle of it when I ask about whats going on and when
we do the action steps I ask if they did their goals this week. Yes. Usually they dont.
Its like I want you to block 30 minutes next week to make sure you check on those.
Make sure youre on track if you need me to adjust the dates. Usually if they have them,
the next call Ill go in there with them and say, Lets take a look at these. I noticed that
you had something set for the end of July. How are you doing?
INTERVIEWER: So usually there isnt a major change in the goal; its just pushing a
date back or maybe even pushing it forward?
PARTICIPANT #7: Right. Or if were talking about something and they say, You
know, I was talking to my wife and we may want to do marathon together. Ill say, Oh
great! Well when is it? Lets put it on your goals.
INTERVIEWER: So this would be a new goal?
PARTICIPANT #7: Yes. So it is constant.
INTERVIEWER: And are you taking goals off ever?
PARTICIPANT #7: Sometimes. Because that will be when I look at it and notice they
havent been in there and well go in and talk about it. Ill ask why they havent been in
it and theyll say, Well, this and this. And Ill say, Your goals should always look real
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to you, so lets go in there and if you want to take it off, Ill take it off. If they want to
put something in there, we can do that too.
INTERVIEWER: So the changing of the goals, it sounds like thats happening more
towards the middle of the call and then the action steps are the wrap-up part of it where
youre a little more specific about how theyre going to achieve that goal.
PARTICIPANT #7: Right. And we tend to spend more time on the goals at the
beginning of the quarter and the end of the quarter. So Ill say, Okay, its the beginning
of the third quarter. Have you looked at you goals? I want you to look at them and at our
next call Ill take a look at them with you and see if anything has changed. Then if they
didnt do it, Ill say, Okay, take one circle. Just do the business circle. So I talk about
those because it helps me to see that theyre engaged.
INTERVIEWER: Anything else you want to talk about?
PARTICIPANT #7: No. I think thats all. When I filled this out, it was mostly about
goals.
INTERVIEWER: Great.
PARTICIPANT #7: Okay.
PARTICIPANT #8
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching, not WCC coaching, just coaching
in general?
PARTICIPANT #8: I think coaching in general is helping understand or identify what
their goals are, what they would like to achieve, and then teaching, encouraging, and
instructing them on the attainment of those goals.
INTERVIEWER: So teaching them which is different than coaching.
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PARTICIPANT #8: Yes. There is no element of teaching in it.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you feel coaching differs from teaching then?
PARTICIPANT #8: Thats kind of unique because they are sometimes very, very
similar. I do use teaching. Teaching, I interpret, as being more of a unilateral process
where it comes from a source to the recipient, but I think coaching too requires a lot of
bilateral cooperation. That is probably the fundamental difference as I see it.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, thats good. Thats what a lot of other people think too.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have a definition of business coaching?
PARTICIPANT #8: Only in so far as restricting it to the environment of business
whereas you would focus on business goals as the primary reason to work together.
INTERVIEWER: So if you were trying to differentiate business coaching from like
sports coaching?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes, I think a lot of the mechanisms would probably be the same,
right? The subject or the
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any experience with sports coaching?
PARTICIPANT #8: No. But I think all of us could pull experiences such as sometimes
we coach in a spiritual capacity, sometimes we coach in a therapeutic style, you know,
depending on where that client is the spotlight can sometimes come off of business, go
over to another circle like finances or relationships or spirituality, to then go back to the
business circle for increased clarity or increased motivation or connection.
INTERVIEWER: So there is a process specific to this company that you do coaching in,
but just in general what is the coaching process?
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PARTICIPANT #8: The coaching process? Well other than the mechanics of making
the call and interacting with a client
INTERVIEWER: Well get more specifically into the call itself, but just the coaching
process in general.
PARTICIPANT #8: I think what is really helpful and this company does it to a pretty
high degree is, number one is understanding where the client is currently at,
understanding then where they would like to be, and then talking through those
expectations and determining some action steps I think that will help walk that person
along to where they say they want to go.
INTERVIEWER: Its pretty much a simple three-step process, right?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes. And depending on where the client wants to go that drives the
entire action. Then the coach puts to work their skills, their abilities to get them to that
point.
INTERVIEWER: So with the next question Im trying to get you to tell me some fishing
stories about coaching.
PARTICIPANT #8: In what regards?
INTERVIEWER: Well like, you know, the boss has some stories he tells from the stage
there. Do you have a good story like that?
PARTICIPANT #8: Let me think on that. Im kind of remiss for one. Yeah. Theres a
good story. I met a future client at a Turning Point in Seattle and he occupied my time
such that he was really, really interested to a high degree. And what if he brought his
entire staff of loan officers into the coaching program? Being new at the time, I thought
it was rather an altruistic thing for this guy to want to pay for his loan officers to work
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toward their goals and work toward improving their life and balancing their life by
getting them all in coaching and paying for it. So we actually got the contract in place
where it was him and ten of his loan officers; can you guess who was the coach? I got to
be the coach. So it became really, really apparent to me after two or three calls with the
boss that what he was trying to do was railroad people into a process and use us as the
system to do it. They all had to do it his way, they all had to act the way he does, they all
had to perform at the level that he needed them to perform, and it quickly exploded
because he was trying to manipulate other people I think.
INTERVIEWER: So you had to have like a come to Jesus thing with him?
PARTICIPANT #8: I had to basically be prepared to lose the entire 11 clients.
INTERVIEWER: And you risked that and what happened?
PARTICIPANT #8: Well, it fell apart and it should have because of the motivation for
those people; they had no skin in the game. They had seen this behavior in him before
and kind of knew it was a train wreck waiting to happen. So they didnt have buy in;
they didnt have participation, and here I was doing the song and dance on every call,
trying to get them to buy in and they kind of new subconsciously I think that, well the
boss is telling us we have to do this. This is not what we want to do and then I had to
confront the boss and his wife actually (they were business partners) to say that this was
totally coming from the wrong place and we couldnt do it. So I lost 11 clients in that
process.
INTERVIEWER: But this guy was just too rigid to be coached?
PARTICIPANT #8: Too rigid, and he had other peoples performance in mind more as a
motivation than he did his own growth or his own benefit in the coaching experience.
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INTERVIEWER: So other than that experience, there have been some things youve
done as a coach that work really well?
PARTICIPANT #8: In general, what Im finding works really well is to kind of what I
call come alongside the client where theyre at and try to coax them to wherever the
next step is based on where theyre at. What I used to do when I would get in trouble
would be to coach them from the destination, no matter how far away from it they were,
and then try to get them to get closer to their finish line. And its hard for a person to see
step three when they havent even landed on step two. Knowing that now, it makes it a
little bit simpler and a lot more rewarding to me actually, you know to take a person to
whatever their next step is and then know that its a part of a larger process to their
destination.
INTERVIEWER: So other than that, doing it the other way not working well, is there
something that youve done that hasnt worked well?
PARTICIPANT #8: There are plenty of things.
INTERVIEWER: We dont want to get all of them, just the main ones.
PARTICIPANT #8: I think, based on the system weve set up here, there are times when
I will interact with a client, not over the phone but in person, like going out to dinner or
an event or maybe even spending some time with them during an event. You know,
somehow I step into their world and sometimes there is something thats breached that
makes the process either go much better or not go as well as it could have. Because all of
a sudden they see you as a person with whatever perceived flaws that there are
INTERVIEWER: And you dont look like Arnold Schwarzenegger?
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PARTICIPANT #8: Yeah, exactly right. And they take all that and it either helps them
in the process or a lot of times it helps them disengage because youre not who they
thought you should be.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any formal coach training to prepare you for this
business specialty?
PARTICIPANT #8: The only formal training Ive had is a business degree at USF, so it
is parallel but it is not direct. So I know about business management. Every other
coaching education I got has been through WCC.
INTERVIEWER: Right here at the company.
INTERVIEWER: What about less formal training?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yeah, thats where I would count years of experience obviously, but
the school of hard knocks kind of stuff.
INTERVIEWER: Were you in the real estate game or the lending game before you came
here.
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes, so it would be real estate experience. I owned an office for a
time. I worked in an office under a broker at one time. So all of that I think gears toward
specifically real estate clients. But other life experiences I think come into play just as
much as that experience did.
INTERVIEWER: So the training you got here and the training with the business degree,
is there a specific example of something that you use here on the job?
PARTICIPANT #8: Like the goal-writing process. Are you looking to be that specific?
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INTERVIEWER: Yes, something like that. You dont have to worry about, yeah Im
hearing the same thing from everybody because thats kind of what Im looking for. So
the goal-setting process is a pretty big deal.
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes, the goal-setting process is really important.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about that process.
PARTICIPANT #8: Well, I think its really necessary for a coach to understand the
clients agenda, and the goal-writing process is an opportunity to step out of my
expectations for that person and step into their shoes to say whats a win for them. So
that from the beginning of the entire process sets you up as an advocate for that client and
not as a dictator saying, This is what youve got to do or be or achieve or whatever.
INTERVIEWER: So you know I already know this process (because I had something to
do with the software that does it), but after you write the goal, what do you do after that?
PARTICIPANT #8: I would keep it in front of their face. Is that what you mean?
INTERVIEWER: Well youd follow up on how they did towards that goal, right?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes. And my process is to have two phone calls a month. On every
other phone call, there is a portion devoted towards what has happened as far as their
goals are concerned, what progress have they made, what challenges did they encounter,
and what are we going to do to advance on the goal?
INTERVIEWER: And there is one other piece right? Besides setting the goal, how did
they do on the goal? And there is also the actual sales numbers, right?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes, of course, for them? Yes. Like the production?
INTERVIEWER: Do you want to elaborate on that at all?
PARTICIPANT #8: Are you referring to the business circle?
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INTERVIEWER: Well, no. Im referring to just the goal-setting process all the way to
the end, you know, where you set the goal and now youre looking at the goal and the
results of that goal. How have they done on that goal?
PARTICIPANT #8: Im not sure where your statement is leading me.
INTERVIEWER: Well besides getting them to actually tell you what their goal is, there
is other stuff you do with that goal after theyve set it, right?
PARTICIPANT #8: Right, which is monitor it, troubleshoot it if theyre having trouble,
and we celebrate if they win. The outcomes are usually financial in the business circle.
INTERVIEWER: Thats the answer Im looking for. Now youve said celebrate which
is something somebody else said and Im trying to look for these common things, but I
dont want to tell you what they are. I want you to tell me.
PARTICIPANT #8: Leading the witness!
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I dont want to lead the way man. That was a little bit too much
witness leading.
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes it was. Strike that from the record!
INTERVIEWER: I think I have to leave that one in there. What do you do if they just
wont set the goals?
PARTICIPANT #8: Thats a good question and Im still kind of developing my own
approach to that. In the past what Ive done is we try to delve into why it is they are not
setting goals and trying to work around the solution. If its fear-based, if its reluctance
because then theyll be judged or whatever, we try to see a way through their reasoning
and see if we can come out with a commitment to write a goal.
INTERVIEWER: Somebody else mentioned fear also.
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PARTICIPANT #8: A small portion of people wont do it5%, and of those 5%, most
of them say two things about why they wont write it down i.e., (1) it either jinxes the
outcome or (2) it puts them in a position where they then will be judged by others for
having attained or not attained the goal.
INTERVIEWER: So do you think people who are willing to set goals have better
success than the ones who wont?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes, definitely.
INTERVIEWER: So it has a direct affect?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes. And if they still refuse to set goals, what well do is work on
implementing this system that we teach, working by referral system.
INTERVIEWER: So you start teaching them instead of coaching them at that point.
PARTICIPANT #8: Right. And the hope there I think is for them to get their appetite
wet a little bit on a victory or a sense of accomplishment and then use that to motivate
them to write additional goals.
INTERVIEWER: So if they wont set the goals and you have to set them for them, can
you tell me more about that?
PARTICIPANT #8: Im not sure Id go as far as setting them for them especially not in
the other circles outside of business or finance. What I might do is try to identify what
might be considered a baby step for them and say, if youre hitting one deal a month, why
dont we try to hit one extra deal every three months.
INTERVIEWER: So the tendency is for them to set the goal too high? The reason
theyre not willing to write it down is because its just too high of a goal.
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PARTICIPANT #8: Lets not say high because that is pejorative, but lets say
unattainable. Like they dont know how theyre going to get from where they are to that
goal. So its elusive more than it is high or low or anything else, I think.
INTERVIEWER: Well thats good that you mentioned that. Other than goal-setting,
now were talking about teaching them a system, not necessarily this system, but is there
some technique that you use to get them into the pedagogy of this sales thing?
PARTICIPANT #8: Well, there are a lot of resources that we have here. So whether its
listening to a conference call on a particular subject, reading a book, watching even a
movie, all the training resources that we have including video clips and work books and
all that, thats an obvious way to do it.
INTERVIEWER: So these are inspirational type things that you keep in your life all the
time?
PARTICIPANT #8: Ill say they are informational. Whether they find it inspirational or
not is up to them.
INTERVIEWER: But its important that you find them inspirational, right?
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes. Its important.
INTERVIEWER: So the situation were in here is not face-to-face coaching and we call
that a distance-learning environment. So have you ever done in-person coaching?
PARTICIPANT #8: Sure. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: You do that sometimes when youre at the seminars and things like
that.
INTERVIEWER: What do you do differently there?
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PARTICIPANT #8: In some ways, I think that distance-learning is more powerful
because the teacher/coach, whatever you want to call it, is not there. I think the recipient
projects a more powerful position or more power on the coach or the teacher when they
are not visually there.
INTERVIEWER: So theyre making more of an effort to communicate with you over the
phone because they dont have the body language to do that for them?
PARTICIPANT #8: Thats true, but I also think too because the visual cues that we
assign or perceive are so important. So not having the visual cue, you start to fill the
picture in, in your mind, and I think that leans towards more power. They are more
receptive to someone being, not in control, in charge of the process. There is more
surrender I think that goes on because its not a visual thing. Whereas, I find this, if
youre in person and lets say you get into a coaching process, the visual cues they pick
up I think can sometimes undermine the effect of the engagement.
INTERVIEWER: So are these cues youre giving them or cues theyre giving you?
PARTICIPANT #8: It can work both ways.
INTERVIEWER: So other than the things weve already talked about, are there things
that are improved because of the distance-learning model.
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes. I think by and large people tend to be more engaged because
theyre paying for it I think theyre more engaged. I think
INTERVIEWER: Well they would be paying even more if it was in-person coaching.
PARTICIPANT #8: They could be. Thats true.
INTERVIEWER: The average price of in-person coaching is a lot higher than
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PARTICIPANT #8: It is. But I think the visual stuff, like the physical presence, can also
be a distraction too. Whereas if all youre doing is focusing on an audible cue, then
youre probably leaning in to pay more attention to that thing too. Just a guess.
INTERVIEWER: So do you think there is something that suffers because youre at a
distance from the folks?
PARTICIPANT #8: Sometimes, I would say because people also learn kinesthetically,
hands-on. My not being physically in the room with them to teach them or take them
through a work-sheet or maybe a video clip or maybe a software program or something
probably suffers a bit; that I cant physically watch them do this thing to know that
theyve done it.
INTERVIEWER: Watch them do a sales call?
PARTICIPANT #8: Do a sales call, fill out paper work, write their goals, whatever the
process is.
INTERVIEWER: What would you do differently if you had these people coming in
face-to-face?
PARTICIPANT #8: Id probably be on guard to dress as professionally as possible,
which isnt always the case when youre not next to each other. Id also work harder to
control the environment, you know, for distractions, or a tone that the environment sets.
Thats about all I can think of at the moment. Yeah, with distance-learning I dont have
to worry about the environment.
INTERVIEWER: Other than the things weve already talked about is there something
you visualize that would be better in person?
PARTICIPANT #8: Well, not
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INTERVIEWER: What Im hearing is that youre not a fan of the in-person thing;
youre leveraging the distance thing quite a bit.
PARTICIPANT #8: Im leveraging the distance thing to the advantage but Im
thinking of classroom settings too. There are distractions. There are tangents people go
off on. There are different layers of learning that people are at.
INTERVIEWER: So when theyre on this call, theyre really focused in on you and if
they were in a classroom with you or even in an office, just you one-on-one, theyd have
more of an opportunity to get distracted.
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes or slowed down or sped up when they dont need one or the
other. But thats more one-to-one and group scenarios.
INTERVIEWER: So weve been talking about this for awhile now, but are there special
techniques, other than the ones weve already talked about, that you use over the phone,
e-mail or the Internet?
PARTICIPANT #8: Well, the Heritage Profile and knowing where my strengths are in
my profile, and also understanding where theyre coming from based on their
INTERVIEWER: But you could have that profile even if you were doing them in person.
PARTICIPANT #8: True. I use my voice a lot to command the engagement.
INTERVIEWER: So you have more inflection in your voice than you would if you were
in-person.
PARTICIPANT #8: Yes, and that I think kind of holds people more in a student position
rather than a peer position.
INTERVIEWER: So you kind of keep them at a distance a little bit. You dont want to
be their little buddy?
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PARTICIPANT #8: Their best friend? No. And based on their profile, I can use my
inflection in voice and the words I choose to kind of get them motivated to do what they
need to do. So I think thats a plus.
INTERVIEWER: Lastly, could you just walk me through a typical coaching call.
PARTICIPANT #8: For me, its being on time, getting them on the phone, and
establishing an agenda. Three minutes of chit chat for me about how the kids are, what
happened at the wedding and all that stuff and then we get into the overview for the call
and that typically follows going to the website and looking at their proactive activities for
the last week compared to the commitment they made. And then we go to the My
Business page and look at their pipeline and how many closings they had, what their
year-to-date numbers are as far as finances. Then we go into what I call the subject issue.
So well have 15 or 20 minutes to talk about what is the next teaching point relative to
where they want to go. So if we work on dialogues or we work on presentations, we
work on understanding the Heritage Profile, thats where that comes into play. And then
well wrap up with three action steps and confirm the next appointment. That is basically
the end of the phone call.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. That went good.
PARTICIPANT #8: Cool.
PARTICIPANT #9
PARTICIPANT #9: I know that we have an official definition here at WCC and Im sure
youve heard that. So basically I guess I think coaching is
INTERVIEWER: Do you happen to know that official definition?
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PARTICIPANT #9: You know what, I would have to stop. I know it but I cant think of
it at this very moment. What I basically think is that it is helping people achieve their
goals, setting goals, and helping people come up with an action plan to achieve those
goals and supporting them through that. You know helping them with the problem
solving of what gets in the way and why and what are we going to do about it.
INTERVIEWER: How do you feel that differs from teaching?
PARTICIPANT #9: Well I think that in teaching a professor will stand at the front of the
room and people either get it or they dont get it and they dont take the responsibility, or
its not set up in such a way that they can really go in and find out where the problems
might be with an individual person. You know, you can do a test to see if they can
regurgitate the information or even if they can apply the information, but I
INTERVIEWER: So elaborate on their standing up in front of the room. What are they
doing when they are standing up in front of the room?
PARTICIPANT #9: Generally they are lecturing. They are explaining the information.
INTERVIEWER: And they are sticking to the script pretty much?
PARTICIPANT #9: Theyre pretty much sticking to the script, yes.
INTERVIEWER: So if you were a coach and you were standing up in front of that room,
how would that be different?
PARTICIPANT #9: Well, I dont know how you could coach a bunch of people at once
because it is very individual. Everybody wouldnt have the same goals. Everybody
wouldnt have the same problems reaching those goals.
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INTERVIEWER: Well, lets say you were just standing in a room coaching somebody
and youre standing up there like you were a teacher but now youre a coach, just one-onone; how would you do that?
PARTICIPANT #9: How would I do it? Well first, if I were coaching you right now, we
would be determining what it is that you want to accomplish. And then we would come
up with action steps as to how to get that done.
INTERVIEWER: So you wouldnt walk in with a script in that situation?
PARTICIPANT #9: No. I wouldnt walk in with a script.
INTERVIEWER: The client would be writing the script for you?
PARTICIPANT #9: More or less. I mean, in our coaching here there are certain things
we are trying to accomplish with people in five different circles of their lives.
INTERVIEWER: Now theyre calling this business coaching here instead of executive
coaching. So lets tack that extra word on there. Business coaching, what does that
mean?
PARTICIPANT #9: It means that we are helping people achieve in their business as well
as in their personal life, but most of the emphasis is on their business.
INTERVIEWER: So what are you doing in their business?
PARTICIPANT #9: Since 99% of the people that we work with are self employed and
they have to make a certain amount or they want to make a certain amount of money, we
are helping them in how to achieve the amount of money that they want to make, how to
work the number of hours they want to work, how to take the vacations they want, how to
make their business interesting to them.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of preparation did you have for this job?
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PARTICIPANT #9: Well, here we are working with real estate agents and lenders, so I
have a degree in public relations and advertising which is part of sales. I worked in sales
for 30 years of my life.
INTERVIEWER: What were you selling?
PARTICIPANT #9: Real estate. I also worked selling long-term leases to people. I was
an account executive.
INTERVIEWER: Thirty years in real estate?
PARTICIPANT #9: No, about 16 years in real estate.
INTERVIEWER: And then 14 years in the leasing?
PARTICIPANT #9: Right and other kinds of sales.
INTERVIEWER: So describe to me, not in a single coaching call but over the course of
a few months, the process that you would go through with a client. What is that like?
PARTICIPANT #9: Well, first of all, where we would start is with asking questions
about what it is they want to achieve. Then I would ask them what they like about their
business and what do they not like about their business. What are the things they do that
they do like and dont like? Then we would be coming up with action steps to
accomplish those goals that they want to accomplish. And it would be action steps that
they would agree upon; not just something I pulled out of the air.
INTERVIEWER: So initially the goals tend to be bigger and broader concepts than what
the action steps are, right?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. Right. They would be more longer term.
INTERVIEWER: And the action steps are geared towards those broader goals?
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INTERVIEWER: Okay. The next thing I need is for you to give me a fishing story
about one of your clients or some experience youve had as a coach.
PARTICIPANT #9: One experience is that I had a client who, when she first came to us,
had over $300,000.00 in debt and $150,000.00 of it was in IRS debt. And of course, this
was very discouraging for her because she could not see how she would ever get out from
under it. So in addition to that debt that she had, she also had some dreams. She had a
neighborhood that she wanted to live in. She wanted to own some real estate investment
properties. So over the course of about three years, we managed to pay off that debt and
then over the course of the next year she bought a home in the neighborhood that she
always wanted to live in. Then in the course of another year, she bought her first
investment property. So, you know it is amazing to me what can be accomplished with a
coach that people dont seem to be able to accomplish on their own. And part of it could
be because some people dont see the steps and they dont have the hope. So having
somebody there who has the hope and can see it almost completed for them is fabulous.
INTERVIEWER: Can you tell me about some things youve done that work well as a
coach?
PARTICIPANT #9: I think one of the things I do that works well is that I do look off
into the future and show people the hope of things. Its hard to know what I do well
because its just what I do. Right? And Im not really a person who talks about what I
do well or even really concentrate on that. I just know that I have good results with
people. So Im fumbling around to come up with how I do what I do.
INTERVIEWER: It sounds like the fumbling around works pretty well though.
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PARTICIPANT #9: Im fumbling around to tell you how I do it. I just know I take each
person and I sit down with them and I listen. Alright, thats one of the things I do very
well. I listen carefully to what people are telling me and I dont generally have a difficult
time understanding what their problem is or what their roadblocks are or where they
shoot themselves in the foot.
INTERVIEWER: And they might be having trouble communicating this but youre kind
of reading in between the lines a little bit.
PARTICIPANT #9: It seems that I am able to do that.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about what are some things youve done that you didnt feel
worked very well?
PARTICIPANT #9: Thats a good question. Probably the one person I worked with that
I dont feel good about is somebody who never saw how he could get ahead or how the
system would help him. And this was kind of early on in my coaching. Maybe Id been
in coaching for a couple of years at this point. I think that on every call we spent all of
our time just talking about trying to reassure him that the system would work and that
there was hope for him and he could accomplish these things, as opposed as to just saying
that at some point we had to quit talking about it and start taking action. I think we went
for a long time without really making him take action and I regret that because he
eventually got out of the business. But you know maybe it wasnt the right business for
him anyway. But I take part of the responsibility for that.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Did you have any specific coaching training before you came
here?
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PARTICIPANT #9: Well I think that as a result of being in sales for most of my life,
what you do in sales if youre good at it and youre in a more sophisticated kind of sales
than across the counter from somebody is that you always have to look at what the people
want to accomplish. And you are there as their person to help them get that done.
INTERVIEWER: So youre kind of coaching the client in the sales experience?
PARTICIPANT #9: Exactly. When I sat down and became a coach here at WCC it felt
very familiar to me because I think thats what Id been doing for years and years.
INTERVIEWER: Thats kind of informal training, but do you have anything less formal
than that even?
PARTICIPANT #9: Specifically for coaching? No.
INTERVIEWER: You were never like involved in sports or music or anything like that?
PARTICIPANT #9: Where I was coached or coached other people? No.
INTERVIEWER: Teaching or anything like that?
PARTICIPANT #9: No.
INTERVIEWER: Can you elaborate on this prior experience that you had selling and
how that helped you with this job? Do you have anymore to say about that?
PARTICIPANT #9: If someone comes to you and they want to buy a home, you have to
sit down and accomplish some goals, i.e., what is it you want? Tell me what you want?
What are you looking for? Heres how much we can afford. Heres this and heres that.
And then its your job as their sales representative to help them accomplish and you
would have to take all the steps. You have to give them the information, counsel them,
you know this is a good idea, that probably wont work.
INTERVIEWER: So they might want some home they just cant afford?
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INTERVIEWER: Okay. So tell me about the goal setting. How do you get the clients to
do that?
PARTICIPANT #9: I ask them first of all just the basic things regarding how much
money they want to make and so forth; how many hours do you want to work; just the
basic things people need to move forward in their business. Also what I like to do is get a
bigger picture like what their real goal is and what is their real dream. If we could wave a
magic wand and make their business
INTERVIEWER: So they might be focusing on something real specific to the business
and you might be trying to find out what the bigger picture is.
PARTICIPANT #9: What I think about most peoples situation is that they sell
themselves short. They think too small and the things they really want they think they
can never have. So you know they may at first not want to talk about that but if you can
find out what that is and then show them the path they will accomplish it. Like the
woman that I was talking about earlier, the success story; she never thought she could
live in that neighborhood in Seattle with all of her debt. She never thought she would get
out from under the debt but we made those goals, we put them into action, and she did.
INTERVIEWER: Thats fantastic!
PARTICIPANT #9: It is. Its amazing really.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever have clients that just dont want to set goals? Sometimes
you say they really dont know what their goals are.
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. Of course we have the Heritage Profile which is a great
INTERVIEWER: Thats a personality profile?
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PARTICIPANT #9: Yes, exactly. So some people, like myself, have that global edge
where we can look into the future and other people dont have that, theyre what we call
specific, they do not like to set goals. They absolutely dont want to because they are
afraid they wont come about and theyll be disappointed. Its like pulling teeth to get
something out of them for longer than 90 days.
INTERVIEWER: So on the goals, you want a life goal type of thing, as opposed to the
action stuff?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes, anything that I can get, not only how much money do they
want to make but also where theyre going ultimately. If I can get that it is easier to get
them where they are going because you kind of hold that carrot out there for them. For
the people who dont like to think in the future, we just have to take it 60 or 90 days at a
time.
INTERVIEWER: So do you see a direct tie between the results people achieve and their
willingness to set goals or your ability to help them set goals?
PARTICIPANT #9: Sometimes. I havent really done a study on that enough to know,
but it would be something I would like to look into and see what the correlation there is
between success and
INTERVIEWER: So its something youre curious about?
PARTICIPANT #9: It is something Im curious about. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: You know there are statistics on how many people use the tracker and
you could find out the last time one of your clients logged in.
PARTICIPANT #9: Exactly. Thats true.
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INTERVIEWER: That would be an interesting thing for you to look into. Lets say you
have somebody who isnt willing to set a goal. Do you ever set it for them? Do you ever
say, Lets go and make five calls this week. Out of the blue.
PARTICIPANT #9: Well see five calls are action steps.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. So a goal like why dont you make a million dollars this year
or whatever.
PARTICIPANT #9: So if they arent willing to say that number, then we would just ask
what they wanted to do this month.
INTERVIEWER: So your technique if theyre unwilling to set goals is to make it more
towards an action step type thing where its a shorter term than what you would call a
goal which would be a longer term thing?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. To shorten the time that
INTERVIEWER: Youre the first one that has said that.
PARTICIPANT #9: Oh really.
INTERVIEWER: But thats a really good thing to know about. So other than the goal
setting, are there any other techniques that you would consider a teaching technique or a
coaching technique that you use regularly?
PARTICIPANT #9: I think that its very important that the clients you work with feel
that you are on their side and that you are there for them.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you let them know that you are on their side?
PARTICIPANT #9: I tell them that. I send them personal notes, and I just try to totally
make the call about them. I dont talk about myself or my situation. Its all about them.
INTERVIEWER: What if they want to talk about you?
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PARTICIPANT #9: Then Ill answer whatever question they have and move right on.
INTERVIEWER: But you try to turn it back on them?
INTERVIEWER: So what you have going on here is considered a distance-learning
environment. How do you think that differs from an in-person type thing?
PARTICIPANT #9: Oh I think that its probably easier to coach people over the phone
than it would be to coach them face-to-face.
INTERVIEWER: Why is that?
PARTICIPANT #9: Well, for me its easier because of how I think.
INTERVIEWER: Right now you seem a little self-conscious about this thing.
PARTICIPANT #9: Do I?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
PARTICIPANT #9: Im not feeling self-conscious.
INTERVIEWER: Ive just seen you in a room with other coaches like when youre
counseling them and you seemed a little more comfortable than you do now.
PARTICIPANT #9: Well youre asking me questions where Im having to really think
because I dont normally explain this kind of thing to people or really even talk to myself
about it. You know, if we were in a coaching situation, Im very familiar with that, right?
And so I dont have to think very hard; but now Im having to really think.
INTERVIEWER: Hopefully, this whole thing will turn into, not just for your but for the
other coaches, a reflective thing and then when I write the thing up you guys will have
that available to look at and youll see what the other folks have thought about these
things too.
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PARTICIPANT #9: I would definitely like to read that to see what other people do think
about it.
INTERVIEWER: There are some things in the first three chapters that probably a lot of
people here dont know about too; the research I did on the literature of coaching and I
saw that what you have on coaching was pretty limited in the library here. Theres a lot
of stuff about real estate and things like that but only minimal coaching material.
PARTICIPANT #9: And from what Ive gathered, there are different approaches to
coaching. One of the women who used to work here was a coach. She took a coaching
program from a college, I think it was up in Santa Barbara, and their approach toward
coaching and mine are kind of two different things because it was mostly, you know, it
seemed like psychology to me.
INTERVIEWER: You mean therapy?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes, more like therapy than it did coaching.
INTERVIEWER: So I heard one of the other coaches mention that in the past at this
company theyve had trouble with people who were certified coaches and had learned
some technique other than the techniques they teach here.
PARTICIPANT #9: Could be; I dont know how many people had some kind of
certification. Oh, I do know one who did. But I think that her situation was not because
she had had that training.
INTERVIEWER: But she wasnt successful?
PARTICIPANT #9: Well, she had problems with retaining clients.
INTERVIEWER: Well that confirms
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PARTICIPANT #9: But I think the reason why that was is because of an attribute that
she had called team player. And the she just really wasnt willing to track people down.
If they didnt show up for a call or if they
INTERVIEWER: So her being a team player meant that she supported their choice of
not showing up?
PARTICIPANT #9: Well I think she kind of threw them off the team if they
INTERVIEWER: Oh, she expected them to be a team player?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes and if they didnt show up she wasnt willing to track them
down. She just kind of threw them off her team. That was my
INTERVIEWER: I always had a positive connotation to that team player thing but here
youre bringing up a potentially negative connotation. If you have a tendency towards
being a team player you might have a negative reaction to somebody who wasnt
supporting the team.
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes, exactly.
INTERVIEWER: Thats interesting. I never looked at it that way. So are there things
that you think are improved because of the distancing? You talked about that a little bit
earlier.
PARTICIPANT #9: I believe for me when I go on a coaching call I can really get into it.
I mean the whole building could kind of come down around me and I wouldnt
INTERVIEWER: So youre more in this abstract thinking mode?
PARTICIPANT #9: Or analytical mode, thinking so hard and then trying to figure out
what the problem is and how were going to solve it.
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INTERVIEWER: So youre listening harder because theyre on the phone than you
would if there were in person?
PARTICIPANT #9: Because Im not distracted.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think anything suffers because of the distance thing?
PARTICIPANT #9: Not that I see.
INTERVIEWER: So its a positive thing for you?
PARTICIPANT #9: I think its very positive.
INTERVIEWER: Something Ive always thought about is that if the clients were coming
in here you would have the advantage of greeting them at the door, getting them over to
your office, and then when you get done you cut the call off and get them back to the
door. I think that you would have greater costs with in-person coaching. Its like ten
times more expensive than doing it on line.
PARTICIPANT #9: And you know, were all wired differently with our natural gifts and
abilities and a lot of people would just love that, you know, being across the table from
somebody; I wouldntjust because of how my mind works.
INTERVIEWER: But it might be cost prohibitive too?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. It takes a lot of time to do that, you know, walking back and
forth.
INTERVIEWER: The other thing is that youre able to coach people all over the
country, not just here.
PARTICIPANT #9: Absolutely; all over the world now.
INTERVIEWER: And youre aware of markets all over the world.
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PARTICIPANT #9: Yes, and that makes it more interesting. You know, its really fun
to be talking to people in Canada and see whats going on in Canada.
INTERVIEWER: Somebody else mentioned that they will be coaching somebody in one
market and theyll go to another person and say, You know this guy in the other market
is doing this thing? Maybe you should try that or find an application for it across
markets.
PARTICIPANT #9: Absolutely. And mostly how I use it is to show hope. I was talking
to somebody yesterday who was feeling that the market was bad and I was able to tell
them that my client outside of Washington D.C. put eight into pending last week. And
then someone else that I work with in Portland she did those first 40 surge; the first week
of the surge she did 40 pop eyes and now she has three listings as a result of those pop
eyes. So you know lets get on the stick with the surge because the business is out there.
INTERVIEWER: And so do you ever get this person to come back and say, Well that
might be that market, but my market is really down now.
PARTICIPANT #9: I used to hear that in years past, but Im not hearing that now.
INTERVIEWER: Its more of a nationwide how the market is going thing?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. And you know, my situation is that I was a coach of Club Net
members for five years, and then I was a coach of coaches for five years, and now Im
back coaching Club Net members. So Ive had the two kind of different situations.
INTERVIEWER: So do you feel that youre using some things that you learned as a
master coach?
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PARTICIPANT #9: I think that I have a moreyes, I think so; nothing that I can really
put my finger on but just kind of having a bigger overall insight as to what people are
doing, what coaches are doing and what works and doesnt work.
INTERVIEWER: So if you were to have a face-to-face coaching client is there
something you would do differently?
PARTICIPANT #9: From what we do now? Id clean off my desk and make sure it
looks neat and tidy at all times, but I cant think of anything that would be greatly
different.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think there is anything that could be done better if you were in
person with folks? Youve coached coaches in person.
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. I have.
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever coached a coach on the phone?
PARTICIPANT #9: A couple of time, and again I like working on the phone.
INTERVIEWER: But Ive seen the coaches in your office before.
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes, because they prefer to have a face-to-face meeting. If it were
my choice, we would do it on the phone because Im not distracted. It helps me think.
INTERVIEWER: Other than the distraction, is there any special technique you use
because youre on the phone and using the Internet and e-mail?
PARTICIPANT #9: No.
INTERVIEWER: Nothing different about that?
PARTICIPANT #9: I dont think so. No.
INTERVIEWER: Could you just walk me through a typical coaching call?
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PARTICIPANT #9: Alright. I would start off by asking you to tell me some good things
that have happened in the past week. Then you would probably tell me five things that
didnt go well.
INTERVIEWER: So you start out with that. At the beginning you dont go, Hey, how
are you doing?
PARTICIPANT #9: I say, Hi.
INTERVIEWER: Is there any chit-chat?
PARTICIPANT #9: I just give them my name and my companys name. I tell them that
Im excited to be talking to them. And no, we dont chit chat, I go right into it because
we only have a half hour. I might ask them to tell me some good things that have
happened in the past week.
INTERVIEWER: So you focus on the positive?
PARTICIPANT #9: I do. But they generally will use that to tell me about the things that
didnt go well. Its really very short. Theres not much chit chat at all, hardly any. Then
I remind them of the things we were going to work on this week and I go back and I
review my
INTERVIEWER: And this is probably when they get into the negative things.
PARTICIPANT #9: No. Theyll tell me they had five deals that fell apart right when I
ask them what went well. Theyll tell me right then about all the things that didnt work
out. So then I might ask for some explanation. I just talked to a guy whos very upset
because his lending business is down. So then we talked about whether there was
anything we could have done differently and he thought about a couple of things he could
have done differently. So we problem solve for a few minutes and then go into the action
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steps from the last time and how it went; what got in the way; whether he wanted to keep
this action step for next time; and then you know Ill ask if theres anything else he wants
to talk aboutmaybe something theyre going to work on and Ill come up with some
ideas. Generally, they will tell me that I come up with creative ideas, which is what they
like about me.
INTERVIEWER: And how do you implement those ideas?
PARTICIPANT #9: We turn them into action steps.
INTERVIEWER: You turn them into action steps?
INTERVIEWER: So at the end, youre kind of fishing for ideas they havent thought of
and turning them into action steps?
PARTICIPANT #9: Or looking for problems that theyre having and turn them into
action steps. Because the whole point of this coaching thing is to move them forward in
their business and in their life too. You know, if theyre trying to lose weight or
whatever theyre trying to do.
INTERVIEWER: So thats pretty much the whole coaching call?
INTERVIEWER: And it usually wraps up with the action steps?
INTERVIEWER: Is there any point in the call where you might reevaluate goals?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. If they say that its not doable and theyre not going to make
$150,000.00 this year well go into what they can make. Can we make $80,000.00? Can
you live with $80,000.00? Will that cover your expenses and allow you to still go on
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vacation and these other things? It will? Okay, would you like to change it to
$80,000.00.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever make the goal bigger than it was?
PARTICIPANT #9: Probably not necessarily set it in stone but
INTERVIEWER: Well lets say its June and theyve already achieved their income goal
for that year.
PARTICIPANT #9: So then we would reevaluate and see what they would want to make
between July and December.
INTERVIEWER: So you rewrite that goal and double it or whatever you have to do?
PARTICIPANT #9: Right. Because the thing about goals is that they are just something
to shoot for. They are not cast in stone. They are very changeable.
INTERVIEWER: You probably havent had to make them bigger in this market for
awhile.
PARTICIPANT #9: Some of the lenders are doing very, very well.
INTERVIEWER: So youve had to expand their goals?
INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else about coaching you want to talk about?
PARTICIPANT #9: No.
INTERVIEWER: So now I know everything you know about coaching?
PARTICIPANT #9: There are probably a million things that if you came and sat and
listened to my call you might see that I never addressed.
INTERVIEWER: Can you put your finger on any of those things you might want to
mention?
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PARTICIPANT #9: No, I really cant.
INTERVIEWER: Thats alright.
PARTICIPANT #9: I think the thing that I do is I keep people on track. You know, I
dont use these coaching calls to just, I really try to keep them, unless theyre having
some big crisis, to just keep them from just talking. We just really dont do that on the
coaching calls I have.
INTERVIEWER: They have a tendency to get off-track?
PARTICIPANT #9: I think that I keep people on track.
INTERVIEWER: But your role is getting them back on the road when they tend to get
off the path a little bit?
PARTICIPANT #9: Yes. You know, sometimes if people dont want to call and ask for
referrals, they will try to sabotage, maybe without even realizing it, the call by talking
about something else. And so, a coach can let that go for a certain period of time but you
have to bring them back on track.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ask them if they realize theyre sabotaging themselves.
PARTICIPANT #9: No. I wouldnt use that word.
INTERVIEWER: So how would you tell them or break it to them?
PARTICIPANT #9: I would tell them that all this is well and good but one of the things
we have to keep in mind is that we want to be working 40 hours a week and in order for
us to do that we have to do this and this and this, instead of working 65 hours a week; so I
let them know we have to get back on track with that.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, that was a good interview.
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PARTICIPANT #10
PARTICIPANT #10: Helping someone else find their truths.
INTERVIEWER: Their truths. You are the first one who has said that. How do you feel
that is different than teaching?
PARTICIPANT #10: Teaching is really just giving someone the knowledge. You have
the information and youre sharing it with them. And through that process maybe a light
will go on and theyll want to keep going with the information. Whereas coaching is, Im
helping facilitate the process for somebody to find their own path and their own truth.
Im not telling them how to do it.
INTERVIEWER: So theyre calling what you do here business coaching now. What do
you think that means, business coaching?
PARTICIPANT #10: Well I think what we do here is probably more accountability.
There are a lot of truths that people find on their own. We ask a lot of questions, but the
nuts and bolts of the system is really accountability. Im telling them how to run the
system, the boss has already built the system, so I am teaching and then there is an aspect
of coaching that comes into it.
INTERVIEWER: But you could use this accountability even if you werent using this
system?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes, definitely.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any kind of preparation for this job before you got it?
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PARTICIPANT #10: No. I didnt. Well my last four years in the Marine Corps I ran a
leadership program on Camp Pendleton and designed and wrote leadership programs in
conjunction with
INTERVIEWER: So you were in the Marine Corps?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes, for 20 years.
INTERVIEWER: Were you involved in that Total Quality Leadership thing they had
going?
PARTICIPANT #10: I cant stand TQL. That was before me. I did a lot of stuff in
conjunction with a colleague, wrote leadership programs for marines that are now used
Marine-Corp-wide. And I have a Masters Degree in Human Resource Development. So
the whole training side of HR is
INTERVIEWER: So do they have a name for the latest flavor of Total Quality
Leadership in the marines?
PARTICIPANT #10: What they use now is They are doing a lot It used to be
Principal Center of Leadership which is no longer a course. It is now Four Disciplines.
So they use that for their officers. The enlisted personnel, especially on Camp Pendleton,
use the program that I helped write which is a leadership program.
INTERVIEWER: And did you have a name for that?
PARTICIPANT #10: We did but it has changed a thousand times at this point. But a lot
of it was based on a lot of the principles from Seven Habits but also using some stuff
from Hiram Smith, Galileo Project with his decision model If Then theory. So if I
believe this, then I will do this. So its a lot about belief windows and decision making.
INTERVIEWER: What was the thing the officers do?
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PARTICIPANT #10: Its Four Disciplines now and Im not trained in Four Disciplines.
I have friends that are, but Im not.
INTERVIEWER: You dont know what those are?
PARTICIPANT #10: No. Im not involved in those.
INTERVIEWER: Is it anything like the Five Circles?
PARTICIPANT #10: You know, it might be pretty darn close. I dont know. If you go
on Franklin Codys website and look up Four Disciplines, it will tell you what it is.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. That would be an interesting thing to do. I know theres a
system in place here but its specific to real estate or lending or whatever, but theres a
process for coaching too. Could you describe the coaching process?
PARTICIPANT #10: Im lucky in the fact that I coach people that are way out of real
estate or lending, so I do have to use the coaching process. For me, the coaching process
is finding out what your goals are, where you want to be, what are your natural strengths,
and what your fears are. Number one is to lean into your strengths, help you lean into
what you do well, and to help you identify why you have fears because they will hold you
back from your success. Then I would help them set milestones to help them move down
the path to hit the goals that they have. If they dont hit the milestones, what is getting in
the way and help you overcome that. So thats pretty much the process that I follow.
INTERVIEWER: So when Im at the seminars, there are a lot of anecdotes that the boss
has. Do you have some kind of fishing story about coaching? A funny or interesting
story, anything you like. If you were sitting around the dinner table and you had your
family members there and they refer to you being a coach and want to know what its
like, youd probably come up with this story that Im asking you about.
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PARTICIPANT #10: Well probably the story I would tell now because its closest to
what most people can Most people when you say real estate or lending they go, ahhhh.
But I coach a film producer who has won seven Emmys and he just won a Telly award.
Hes also in the process of making another documentary, and its Journey Home. I forget
the title because its been renamed a couple of times. But its interesting to coach him
because he does screenings for his film and were talking about Anthony Edwards is the
executive producer. In his world, hes very artistic, hes incredibly catalytic, hes start,
start, start; he bounces all over the place. So I have to keep him in between the orange
cones and, you know, I get e-mails from him all the time about, you know, Anthony
mailed me this, or he has a meeting with these people, and for me to be involved with
somebody like that is just kind of like out of my norm, but he is a challenge to coach.
INTERVIEWER: Hes just willing to go to that impossible future a lot quicker than you
are.
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. But hes a challenge to coach in the fact that you have to
really use all your skills when you coach somebody like him because there is no falling
back on the system. He doesnt use our system. He writes notes. I could have him
writing personal notes, but its about him making this film.
INTERVIEWER: So he doesnt use the tracking system at all?
PARTICIPANT #10: Oh no. It has absolutely no use for him. Right now, we just hit a
milestone which was to find an underwriter for his film and he found an underwriter for
the film.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have the action steps at the end of the coaching call?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes, I do.
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INTERVIEWER: With him?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. He has action steps and, as I said, I have to keep him in
between the orange cones because he is like all over the place.
INTERVIEWER: So his action step would be a ten-year-out action step?
PARTICIPANT #10: Like his last action step was that he had to take his budget, which
is just under $1,000,000.00 for this film, and turn that budget into his plan, because he
couldnt see his plan. He came to the call and said he was really struggling because he
didnt have a plan. I hit my premiere, I hit the review, and I dont have a plan, and I have
formed a budget
INTERVIEWER: For this guy, showing him some limitations actually helps him out.
PARTICIPANT #10: Very much so, because he has no walls.
INTERVIEWER: But with other people, you want to show
PARTICIPANT #10: Oh, I want them to think outside the box, but he is so far outside
the box that I have to bring him back in.
INTERVIEWER: So is there something you have done that you do all the time which
works really well with the coaching thing?
PARTICIPANT #10: You know, I guess Im known for being, I guess brutal is probably
not a good word, a really tough coach.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever hang up on people?
PARTICIPANT #10: I have. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: And it works, huh?
PARTICIPANT #10: They dont own me, you know. They pay a price to WCC for me
to coach them, but they dont own me; so when they decide theyre going to get rude or
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talk in a disrespectful way or yell at me, I own this end of the phone and Ill hang it up.
And theyll call back and apologize because they know that theyve been inappropriate.
These are adults. They are not five year olds. They are adults.
INTERVIEWER: And have you done some things that dont work well?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes, falling into the trap of feeling sorry for them if theyre having
troubles in their personal life. In my first year as a coach, you know, Id tell them I was
really sorry, and Id kind of back off a little bit. That didnt do anything for me except
lose clients.
INTERVIEWER: They need somebody to hold them to task, huh?
PARTICIPANT #10: You know, the clients that I coachI couldnt coach other
peoples clients the way I coach. I mean, my clients want somebody who is tough,
theres no BS; I dont play games.
INTERVIEWER: So when theyre doling out the clients, they kind of know who to put
with who, huh?
PARTICIPANT #10: Oh yeah. When a client says they want somebody whos really
tough, really focused, and really structured, theyre typically going to end up on my desk.
INTERVIEWER: So you talked a little bit about some education and jobs youve had to
prepare for this. Did you have any specific education besides what youve already talked
about?
PARTICIPANT #10: No, I didnt go to Coach You or to any coaching programs.
INTERVIEWER: What about something less formal than that?
PARTICIPANT #10: Just being a marine for 20 years.
INTERVIEWER: But you got involved in training in the Marine Corps?
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PARTICIPANT #10: Oh yeah, but just the life of hard knocks being in the Marine
Corps, helping the marines with their life. You know, when youre a Staff NCO in the
Marine Corps, youre responsible for all the people that are under you and helping them
reach their goals.
INTERVIEWER: So you just kind of got promoted into the training role?
PARTICIPANT #10: I got selected for that, yeah, because of my background. Just my
education and my reputation
INTERVIEWER: What education was that now?
PARTICIPANT #10: Just my undergrad and my masters degree that people knew I had.
INTERVIEWER: In what now?
PARTICIPANT #10: Human Resource Development; its the training side of Human
Resources. So we write training programs.
INTERVIEWER: So you did have some education that had to do with training?
INTERVIEWER: So that training, can you give me some examples of how that has
helped you with this job?
PARTICIPANT #10: Well, it has helped me you know, when you train people its
really easy to see that the light goes on for different people at different times. You dont
expect people to immediately get it the first time you say it. And it helps you understand
that everybody learns differently. So Ive got clients that I can explain something to them
and they get it; I have some clients we have to do hands-on and theyll get it; I have
some clients that have to take my information and go away and come back and theyve
gotten it. So when you do a lot of training with people, you understand that people learn
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in very, very different ways. So you dont get frustrated if youre not getting the
immediate response right then and there.
INTERVIEWER: So you have your clients set goals, right? So what do you do with
them if theyre not really willing to do the goals? You got any tricks to get them to set
their goals?
PARTICIPANT #10: Ill ask them very open-ended questions about where they see their
business or if theres something they want to do with their family this year, if theyve got
a trip planned, and then I just tell them, See, thats a goal. Thats something were
shooting for. Thats something we want to accomplish.
INTERVIEWER: So you hit them on the personal side first before you start getting them
into the business goals?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes, if theyve never written goals before. Business plans are
terrifying for our clients.
INTERVIEWER: So he people that you manage to get to set the business goals, do you
see their success?
PARTICIPANT #10: Enormous!
INTERVIEWER: Its measured by those goals and the goals affect that success?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. And this is what I tell my clients
INTERVIEWER: You actually see a correlation?
PARTICIPANT #10: Oh yeah, very much so. I tell my clients that we accomplish things
when we tell somebody or write it, not because were afraid somebody is going to judge
us, but we just went into a relationship with somebody with something and I believe that
we were created to be in relationship and when youre in relationship, you have your
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greatest success. So if youre in relationship with yourself on a piece of paper or in
relationship with another human about a goal, the reason you will accomplish it is
because youre not alone doing it.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever tell the client what their goal is?
PARTICIPANT #10: There have been times where weve talked about where they want
to go or something they want to do and Ill say, Now do you see where this could be a
goal? Do you see how this is a goal?
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever just tell them to type a five in the box?
PARTICIPANT #10: No, never.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
PARTICIPANT #10: What time is it? I do have a call at 2:30 though.
INTERVIEWER: Weve got five minutes, and Ill be wrapping up shortly.
PARTICIPANT #10: Sorry.
INTERVIEWER: So you have a system here to use some teaching too. Are there some
teaching mechanisms you use to teach this system, other than coaching?
PARTICIPANT #10: You mean the website?
INTERVIEWER: Well, the cards, notes, calls and pop eyes and the Work by Referral
system.
PARTICIPANT #10: Well, when Im teaching the system Im usually going pretty
systematically with the tools that Ive been given. We either have a coaching manual,
Ive got the web site, Ive got the referral to the boss if theyre been to a Turning Point,
but when its doing calls, notes and pop eyes, then Im straight in teaching mode. This is
how we do it, this is the optimum way to do it, and this is the perfect way. But then I also
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let them know that it can definitely be personalized, you know, not everybody is going to
be strong in pop eyes, but you need to have this many contacts so were going to do it in
a different fashion.
INTERVIEWER: So somebody is better at talking on the phone or face-to-face or
PARTICIPANT #10: Exactly. Lean into you strengths. So we always talk about the
idea but Im really into optimum; 80% good enough.
INTERVIEWER: So what we have here is described as a distance-learning environment.
Tell me how you feel about that being different from the face-to-face, either in a
classroom or one-on-one.
PARTICIPANT #10: You know, I like being in a classroom when its about material and
not personal, if that makes sense. When I deal with my clients, Im dealing with their
personal finances; Im dealing with personal stuff in their life, things that you dont
necessarily share with somebody or in a group.
INTERVIEWER: So its not actually like theyre telling a person when theyre on the
phone, theres a little more distance to it. Its like writing it down for yourself.
PARTICIPANT #10: I think theyre much more honest with us on the phone. You
know, when I look eyeball to eyeball with you
INTERVIEWER: Youre a little bit shy?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yeah. I may not tell you that Im $100,000.00 in debt, but on the
phone, there is a sense of security there and a sense of safety. And I have coached some
clients face-to-face; its just so much more effective, in my opinion, to do it at a distance
because there is safety with it.
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INTERVIEWER: Other than that, is there anything else that is improved by the
distance? You know, we dont have to elaborate on that issue. Is there something that
suffers from it?
PARTICIPANT #10: You can look at the other side of that coin and its the same face,
its just you look at it differently. That distance also allows them to separate from me.
INTERVIEWER: So they could blow off the goal easier?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. Exactly, So where theres the safety, theres also the way
that if you and I were sitting eyeball-to-eyeball and you didnt do an action step and Im
looking at you and I just shut up and stare at you, youre probably going to react
differently than if were on the phone.
INTERVIEWER: And is there any specific technique that you use just because youre
using the phone and the Internet?
PARTICIPANT #10: To get them to be honest with me or to get them to communicate?
INTERVIEWER: Just coaching, teaching, whatever; other than the ones weve already
talked about.
PARTICIPANT #10: You know, I probably do and Im not aware of it. Its just so
second nature with me now.
INTERVIEWER: Thats okay. Lets just get to the last question so we can get you out
of here. I just want you to walk me through a typical coaching call.
INTERVIEWER: You call them up. They call you up.
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PARTICIPANT #10: Call them up, Hey, how are you doing? I have a lot of female
clients and a lot of males. Im like, Hey, whats going on? What great thing has
happened since the last time we spoke? We always start with the successes.
INTERVIEWER: More of a personal thing at that point.
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. What happened since the last time we spoke? What are the
great things? They will fill me in. Then immediately, Im like, Okay, great!
INTERVIEWER: But that could jump right to business?
PARTICIPANT #10: Immediately it does because next I go to, Okay, lets go over your
action steps from your last call. A lot of times when theyre telling me their successes,
its around their action steps, but it may not be. It may be that theyve closed five deal or
the kids graduated or whatever.
INTERVIEWER: The initial chit chat tends to be more personal stuff?
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. Tell me whats going on. What happened? Exactly.
INTERVIEWER: So kids, soccer team, all that stuff.
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. Whatever, and that usually takes a few minutes and we go
right into the action steps. And then from the action steps we go into successes or
challenges around those action steps.
INTERVIEWER: So these are action steps you set last week.
PARTICIPANT #10: Yes. I always go over those.
INTERVIEWER: Are there a set number of those?
PARTICIPANT #10: No more than three. Sometimes
INTERVIEWER: No more than three?
PARTICIPANT #10: Right. Sometimes I keep it under two, but no more than three.
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INTERVIEWER: Is there a minimum?
PARTICIPANT #10: One.
INTERVIEWER: You dont ever let them get off the phone without one action step?
PARTICIPANT #10: No. Even if they get on the phone and theyre in trauma, theyll
leave with an action step and an action step may be
INTERVIEWER: Get out of the trauma.
PARTICIPANT #10: Go see your priest or go do whatever, but thats an action step. I
had a client who called me one time. She was bi-polar and hadnt taken her medicine. It
was very obvious. I told her that I would not coach her. I told her to get off the phone
and go to the pharmacy, pick up her meds and take a pill and call me back in about three
hours. And she did it. I mean sometimes thats the action step.
INTERVIEWER: So you needed to talk her off the bridge?
PARTICIPANT #10: Oh, she was absolutely out there. But then we do the action steps
and talk about challenges or successes around those. Then I always go to the computer. I
want to go down their business. I want to see whats in potential, pending, and active. If
somebodys been in potential too long or inactive too long, then I always go and look at
their goals. We go over their goals quickly, go to the reports section, do numbers with
them, and then leave with new action steps.
INTERVIEWER: Thats how you wrap it up?
PARTICIPANT #10: Always.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, thats it.
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PARTICIPANT #11
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching? This is just coaching, not
coaching here.
PARTICIPANT #11: Coaching, as far as I am concerned, is if youre related to, for
example, Ill relate it back to sports, okay. In sports, you have a coach who sits down and
helps you achieve to the best of your abilities. When you relate that back to business and
the business were in, my definition is that Im helping people achieve to the best of their
ability in both their business and their life, and thats what I see coaching as.
INTERVIEWER: So when you use the words their abilities with teaching youd have
more of a set goal and thats the same goal for everybody, but with coaching its
PARTICIPANT #11: Its different goals for different people. You know, you sit down
and you start looking at, you help them get their goals identified, and then as their coach
you try and help them achieve those goals.
INTERVIEWER: So other than that, is there something else about coaching thats
different than teaching?
PARTICIPANT #11: I dont think coaching is teaching. I mean, sure there are things
that I teach them. In the environment that were in, we teach them how to do our
systems. Okay? But thats not really the coaching part.
INTERVIEWER: Thats kind of a small aspect of what you do.
PARTICIPANT #11: Yes. Thats a very small aspect. We show them business by
referral, and we teach them how to do that in their business. Youd be amazed at how
many people dont do it, even when every other week you have a coaching call with them
and you try to keep them motivated.
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INTERVIEWER: Ive seen the numbers.
PARTICIPANT #11: Im sure you have. But once youve taught them that, then you get
into this situation where you are actually going, Was I the next person here?
INTERVIEWER: Youre good here.
PARTICIPANT #11: Then you get in a situation that you are trying to motivate them,
youre trying to keep them focused on the goals they have and how they are going to
achieve those business goals by using the system that youve taught them, and you keep
them going back to that system so you can coach them through any issues that theyve
got. You know, we coach in multiple circles and I believe thats the way you should
coach people.
INTERVIEWER: These are the Five-Circle goals?
PARTICIPANT #11: Yeah. And people go sideways in life. I mean, people will have
issues, like I have clients who have cancer. Okay. And that can take you sideways real
fast.
INTERVIEWER: So that might be something that has nothing to do with the business
and you have to talk about that a little bit to get them back on track.
PARTICIPANT #11: What happens is that actually ends up having to do with the
business because when they go sideways with their health, they start worrying about their
health and they dont worry about their business anymore. So I try to at least have them
keep, as we say here, an oar in the water. Okay, so you can at least keep them partially
focused on their business so they dont start having huge financial problems because they
have no money coming in. And at the same time
INTERVIEWER: Because that can compound the health problem.
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PARTICIPANT #11: Oh absolutely. That makes it even worse.
INTERVIEWER: So now we want to get your definition of business coaching, not just
coaching but business coaching.
PARTICIPANT #11: Okay. If you do just business coaching and, like I say, we do FiveCircle here, but if you focus on the business and financially actually helping people with
their businesses only.
INTERVIEWER: But this is more of a holistic coaching that you do here.
PARTICIPANT #11: Yes and no. I mean, my title is a business coach, so my main
focus is on business and finances. But like I said earlier, you get into situations where
people have, and I have gotten in many of those, where they have health issues, maybe
they have a child who is sick, maybe they have a dog that died. Okay? Youd be amazed
at how many people go sideways when one of their pets die. And that takes them totally
away from doing their business. However, my main function is to have them focus on
their business because thats what Im here for. Thats what they are paying me for. Do I
have a definition of business coaching? Well, you know, it is still helping people to
achieve the best that they can to the goals that theyve set. If I sit down and focus on
their business goals, my main goal is to help them achieve those goals. Yes, there are
other goals in other parts of their life and Ill help them through that, but my main focus
is the business.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have some preparation before you came here?
PARTICIPANT #11: For coaching?
INTERVIEWER: For business coaching.
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PARTICIPANT #11: Lets put it this way. I never had any training as a coach. Okay?
Ive got 33 years in corporate America at a very high level, i.e., Vice President and Chief
Information Officer working on the IT side. And Ive had departments from three people
to 65 people. And when youre working with people at any function at that level, youre
always coaching them. Youre always coaching them and helping them achieve. In the
IT side, as you know, because youre in IT or you have been
INTERVIEWER: So when you say youre coaching them, you have to have a little bit of
flexibility. You just tell them what you need them to do but you let them figure out how
to do it.
INTERVIEWER: As opposed to just saying, I want you to do this and this is how I
want you to do it.
PARTICIPANT #11: Exactly. You empower them to do their own Its the same with
coaching here. You sit down and you say, Okay guys, you have a goal you want to
achieve, $100,000.00 this year; how are we going to get there?
INTERVIEWER: So in those jobs as a supervisor, you thought of yourself more as a
mentor rather than a coach or an iron-fisted boss?
PARTICIPANT #11: Exactly. Although in some cases, if theyre not doing what theyre
supposed to be doing, youve got to jump on them.
INTERVIEWER: Youve got to hit them in the head.
PARTICIPANT #11: Yeah. Thats the main skill that Ive picked up over the years that
I use in my coaching today. The other thing that Ive had is just life stuff; you know
things that happen to you. Ive lost a brother to cancer; my dad passed away; Ive had
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pets die on meit doesnt impact me maybe as much as other people, but still I can
empathize with people who have these issues. Ive been laid off from a job. Ive been in
financial straits. Ive almost lost my house a couple of times over my lifetime. And
people have those problems today. So I am able to sit down and walk them through some
of those issues and help give them a different perspective. So that helps.
INTERVIEWER: So there are some systems here to do this stuff, but just in general, the
process of coaching, can you describe that for me?
PARTICIPANT #11: Ill start at the beginning when you get a client. Okay? The first
thing that we do here, and yes, there are systems here that we follow because thats what
were trained on. When I came here I had three months of training, and pretty intense,
because the training that they give here is absolutely phenomenal. So we get trained on
how to do the systems at WCC. But when I get a client, we get a business analysis from
them. I go through their business analysis with them. I look at it myself. Ill pick up the
highlights. I go through it with them. You know, Whats going on here with your
business? Last year, you had X amount of dollars that you made or X amount of
transactions. You are doing better or worse this year. We talk about that. We talk
about systems that theyve used in the past. We go through and I go through their office.
Do you have an assistant? Do you have somebody else working with you. Whats
available to you? So thats their business analysis. That kind of takes 45 minutes to an
hour on the initial call. So we have one initial call of an hour. After that, its half-hour
calls twice a month. And we will focus on activities. How are they doing on the
activities, and on the business? Well focus on the actual business because, as you know,
we have the tracking system on the computer and I will always look at that. So my
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clients, a few of them do not really fill in the tracking system. So what they do instead is
to send me basically a report because they dont feel like going back in and re-entering
the data; so as long as I get something that shows me how theyre doing on their
business
INTERVIEWER: And then you put it in for them?
PARTICIPANT #11: No. I wont do that. But I will sit down and go through their stuff
with them. Ill put it in their folder that I have on them. Okay? Then I sit down and I go
through all of their transactions with them just to follow up and make sure theyre doing
all right. And I go through their activities. How are they doing on activities? How come
you didnt have any calls? Whats going on? Stuff like that. And if they have any issues
on the other side which is not the business side, we do talk about them, but I dont bring
them up. Theyll usually bring them up.
INTERVIEWER: Now Id like you to tell me some fishing stories about coaching.
PARTICIPANT #11: As far as with some of my clients?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, the kind of stories that the boss tells. You know, the little old
lady in Coronado with a million dollar house who has no idea what its worth.
PARTICIPANT #11: Lets see, I dont have a lot of that, but I do have some clients who
are very interesting. Ive got a guy in New York State who is a broker mentor and he has
three ReMAX offices; Im not going to mention any names. He probably has about 35
agents working within those three offices. He also had a condo in Manhattan and he also
has a condo in St. Martin in the islands. He is a very interesting, single guy, 50 years old,
and some of the stories he has told me are unbelievable. He always has a little bit of a
tidbit story that I go, You know, this is too much information for me. But they are fun
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to listen to. The interesting thing is we talked about his finances last year and he was
making a lot of money, but he never really knew where it went. So we got to talking to
him about his budget so he put a budget together. The next thing he tells me is, Nic, Im
selling my condo in Manhattan. Its like $2,000,000.00. He sold his condo with all the
furniture in it because the guy wanted to buy it with the furniture and he had built himself
a duplex behind his office outside of New York City. He went and lived in one side of
the duplex, cut his cost way down, had a Porsche that he was driving, $1,500.00/month
payments, sold his Porsche and bought himself a Lincoln, which for him was kind of a
step down. But it went from $1,500.00/month to $500.00. This year he is doing
phenomenal. He is going to make $500,000.00 this year, on his own. Thats not his
company; thats his own business.
INTERVIEWER: But this was him not making more money; this was him watching his
expenses.
PARTICIPANT #11: Thats correct, and realizing that he was spending money that he
didnt even know what he was spending.
INTERVIEWER: So are there things you have done as a coach that have worked well?
PARTICIPANT #11: Budgets. The key is to just sit down and work with your clients to
get the budgets so you can at least show them, Hey guys, you could be making more
money over here.
INTERVIEWER: So these guys get windfalls and then they just go out blow them
without somebody watching them.
PARTICIPANT #11: They spend it. Theyll get a $10,000.00 check and, like that, its
gone. They go, I dont even know where that money went. You know, so working on
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them with their budgets, first their personal budget and then getting into their business
budget, working with mentors, I really like that area because thats kind of where my
background is, and sitting down and getting them to focus on recruiting, on retention, and
on office culture. Ive another client in upper New York State, Albany area that Ive
helped through those areas. Hes got 50 agents, and Ive helped him through those areas,
like getting the culture really, really good in his office. So its equivalent to what we
have here culture-wise, as you know what the culture is here. Ive been working with
him on hiring and recruiting people and also working with him on retaining agents, the
best agents in his office. Thats fun stuff.
INTERVIEWER: And have you done something that didnt work well? Thinking all the
way back to when you first started here.
PARTICIPANT #11: I had one case, and Ill tell you what, this is not really one that
didnt work well per se, but I had a first call with a new client and she got on the phone
and she started reading me the riot act. You know, I dont know what you guys are
doing. There are better systems than this out there. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Id
been at the company for three months and coaching now for about a week. I got my
dander up. My temper got up a little bit. And I said, So are you telling me you dont
want to be in coaching? and she said, Maybe not. And I said, Okay. Bye, bye then.
And I hung up the phone. And I said, Oh maybe I shouldnt have done that.
INTERVIEWER: So you gave up too soon on this?
PARTICIPANT #11: Yeah. I just hung up. And I went and told my master coach and
she just laughed. And she said maybe I shouldnt have done that. Well the thing is, we
went back to her and she didnt want to be in coaching. So for whatever reason, she said
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she was forced to sign up because the whole company was in coaching. So its okay. I
didnt do anything wrong. But I did realize then that I just couldnt do that; I should have
continued on.
INTERVIEWER: But she probably wasnt a good client.
PARTICIPANT #11: No.
INTERVIEWER: But since then youve had clients kind of like that and youve
managed.
PARTICIPANT #11: Yeah. You know, people get on and start talking. They are
frustrated with the coaching process. Maybe you get a transfer from another coach and
maybe that whole process didnt go very well and so you sit down and now youre trying
to save a client. And my coaching style is maybe a lot different that someone elses is.
You know, Im a motivator pragmatic; Im not an aesthetic person; so Im really bottomline oriented. So I focus on the bottom line. And thats totally different than some other
coaches coach. But, yes, Ive been pretty successful at what Im dong.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have some formal coach-specific education?
PARTICIPANT #11: No, none.
INTERVIEWER: But youve had some training here?
PARTICIPANT #11: Absolutely. The training here has been terrific.
INTERVIEWER: And then you have some job experience?
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any less formal training on coaching?
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INTERVIEWER: Okay. The training that you had here, how has that helped you with
this job?
PARTICIPANT #11: Well the training here has helped in several areas; (1) its the
Heritage Profile which we use a lot in our coaching which enables me to look and say,
Okay, if an agent or a person Im coaching is going sideways, why is that happeningl
So Ii check their profile and in their profile somewhere something is making it go
sideways for whatever reason, so I use that a lot in my coaching Weve been trained in
how our systems work here, business by referral, which without that I wouldnt be able to
do this. Without that, youd have to sit here and try to coach in your own way, which I
dont. You know, again, its the business that we try to teach them. So the training here
has really been phenomenal.
INTERVIEWER: So you have your clients set goals. How do you get them involved in
that?
PARTICIPANT #11: Well we sit down and go through it. The good thing is, the boss
gets them involved. You know, they go to a Turning Point and they write goals and then
they send their goals to their coach.
INTERVIEWER: So he kind of breaks the ice for you on that?
PARTICIPANT #11: To start. But you know, now maybe they dont go to a Turning
Point for a year, which happens sometimes, especially in todays economy. So we sit
down and every year I say, Lets look at our goals that we have on the system. I just
did it with a guy today. His goals were from 2008. Were in June. Ive been after him
for six months, trying to get him to sit down and do goals for 2009. So what I do is, if
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they dont have any goals written in there, we spend the whole coaching call on them.
And Ill just make them have one goal in each circle.
INTERVIEWER: So do you think the goals have an effect on them?
PARTICIPANT #11: On them personally and on their business? Absolutely! Because a
lot of them will take what theyre doing, take their goals, and theyll even create goal
boards or vision boards where they keep this stuff in front of them. They might not do
anything else but their goals for a year. But their goals are on there and theyre visually
looking at them and in their head theyre thinking about it, subconsciously.
INTERVIEWER: So lets say they just wont do the goals. Do you ever set the goals for
them?
PARTICIPANT #11: No. Why should I set the goals? Theyre not mine. But Ill take
them through it, and Ill at least make them set up a goal in their business and financial.
INTERVIEWER: So you do your best to coerce them into making some goals.
PARTICIPANT #11: I dont just coerce them; sometimes I tell them they have to do it.
INTERVIEWER: When we talk about teaching the clients, you teach them our systems
here, but are there some techniques you use with the teaching thing?
PARTICIPANT #11: As far as, what do you mean by techniques?
INTERVIEWER: Teaching techniques, not coaching techniques.
PARTICIPANT #11: Oh sure. Well sit down and go through the business processes
and Ill go through and talk about for example doing pop eyes and doing calls and doing
notes and trying to teach them how to do a call. Okay? How to sit down and well do
some role playing on some of our calls. Ill pretend Im the agent and hes a customer; or
vice versa, Ill have him do it and go through the mirror campaign or go through the
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referral dialogue that we use here and try to teach them how to say it in their way. I dont
want to tell them how to say it in my way because I know how to say it. I know this stuff
upside down, backwards and forwards, and Ill say it in a certain way. But I dont expect
them to say it like anybody else, because they need to say it like you do, like Leroy. How
do you ask for a referral? Well, you know, the way you ask is different than the way I
ask and I try to teach them theyve got to get comfortable with the dialogues.
INTERVIEWER: Dont worry about the time because my next person just bailed on me.
PARTICIPANT #11: I just want to make sure that Im not because I have a call at
9:30. So
INTERVIEWER: Thats okay. So in this environment its called distance-learning, you
know in the greater sense of things.
PARTICIPANT #11: Distance-learning maybe because its on the phone and its not
INTERVIEWER: Yes and using the Internet and e-mail too.
INTERVIEWER: So describe how that would be different ifyouve coached people in
person when you see them at events, right?
INTERVIEWER: So what do you do differently?
PARTICIPANT #11: Well I dont know that I do anything different per se except that
when youre talking to somebody in person, its the eye contact. Okay? You can maybe
sit down and take a piece of paper and show them something which you cant do today
on the Internet if youre trying to show them how to do a pop eye. There are no tools for
me to sit down and show them that, except now that I have a camera.
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INTERVIEWER: You have a camera and youve been using it on the coaching calls?
PARTICIPANT #11: Not yet. I did it on one call. Were supposed to use it for our
group coaching, thats what its for. And Ive one client whos very, very IT oriented,
very technical, and he says, Hey Nic, did you get your camera? And I say, Yes. He
says, Well lets turn it on. So the only way I could do it from my end is I sent him an
invitation to a WebX meeting right there on the spot and he got it, clicked on, and there
we were, looking at each other talking to each other. He said, Hey, whats all that stuff
behind you? Well I have a bunch of stuff on my cabinet thats like our
acknowledgement cards and he wanted to know what those were. So I explained it to
him.
INTERVIEWER: Inspirational stuff.
PARTICIPANT #11: Yes. But I could sit down and see where that could become a real
positive. I could even sit down and show them something. For example, this is a pop eye
that one of my clients sent me. I could do something like that. But without that, the
distance teaching is fine. I mean, it works great.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think theres something better about the distance that you
cant envision doing in person?
PARTICIPANT #11: I dont know if theres anything better about it per se except I do
have access, if I was doing it in person I dont have access to a computer, I might not be
able to show some things that I can show them on a computer.
INTERVIEWER: Well if they came to your office here and you had the computer right
there
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PARTICIPANT #11: I prefer it would be great if I had, like this, what were doing here,
or we could sit down and talk because then I could see
INTERVIEWER: And you really wouldnt want to be sitting at the computer when you
were doing it. Youd want to just get a dialogue
PARTICIPANT #11: Ive done this. I have clients from this area and I have actually had
them come into my office. Weve gone out for lunch, came back and sat at my cube
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever taped it?
PARTICIPANT #11: No. No. I just talk.
INTERVIEWER: You just talk? Thats good. So youd like that less formal. So its a
little more formal with the distance.
PARTICIPANT #11: Sure it is.
INTERVIEWER: Are there things that suffer other than the ones weve talked about
because youre at a distance with the folks.
PARTICIPANT #11: No really. I mean you build relationships with clients; would the
relationship be closer if it was face-to-face? Sure. I always feel that face-to-face is better
than just voice-to-voice, and thats why I kind of like the idea of the camera thing.
Okay? Am I going to use that with more of my clients? Maybe, at least have them see
me. Because Ive never
INTERVIEWER: Probably culturally itll become a more common thing as the
technology Were kind of in the dark ages of video calls right now.
PARTICIPANT #11: Right.
INTERVIEWER: Its not the Jetsons yet.
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PARTICIPANT #11: Not yet. But is there a disadvantage? I dont think so. It works
fine. I think that youve seen how successful weve been over the years. So theres a
reason why were successful. Part of it is because of the systems; part of it is because we
build relationships.
INTERVIEWER: So the last question is: What do you think a typical coaching call is
like?
PARTICIPANT #11: A typical coaching call would be something, okay, I get on the
phone; I call them and say, Hi. Hows it going? And you spend a couple of minutes
on just doing a little bit of bantering back and forth and discussion; some personal stuff
and then I get into the call. Hows business. I go through their business that theyve got
sitting out there. Maybe theyve done a bunch of transactions. Then we might go
through their potential business. What have you got going on? Especially today where
they are not focused on this stuff because theyre focused on why the heck is this short
sell not closing. Its one transaction for a $100,000.00 house. But theyve got 15 others
sitting out there that are in active that might be $3,000,000.00 worth of transactions but
they are focusing on this one little transaction that they are going to get $2,000.00 for. So
you try and get them to focus on the other stuff and not just on that. You go through their
proactives, make sure that theyre doing the calls, notes, pop eyes, business to business,
etc., go through any issues that they are having and by the end of that you are almost at
the end of the call.
INTERVIEWER: What do you do at the end of the call?
PARTICIPANT #11: You sit down and give action items. Discuss some of the stuff that
they are supposed to work on during the call. At the end, I summarize and say, Okay,
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here are your action items. ABC. Thats what I expect done in the next two weeks.
The one thing I did forget was at the beginning of the call when we get into it, I go
through their previous action items to make sure that they know Im going to follow up
so they cant get away from this. Okay? The call might digress. During the call, maybe
you get into one specific subject i.e., theyre having an issue with a client that theyre
trying to deal with. They ask for help to get through it. They want to know how to get
through to the difficult client. You know there have actually been cases where Ive said,
Hey, maybe you need to get rid of the client. Well Nic, its a million dollar house.
So I say, Okay, are you spending a million dollars on this person trying to sell the
house? In some cases, not that much, but they are spending a ton of time and money
and the client is what the boss calls a jackass. I had a lady who I started talking to about
a month ago (shes a transfer from a coach whos gone) and she comes in, we were
talking, and she says, Im doing real estate and you need to know that Im working a
part-time job somewhere else. I said, Okay. So we talked about it. The next call
comes along and she goes, Can we talk about the job again? So I figured this was
bothering her. I said, How much money are you making at that job? She goes, Oh
about $400.00 to $500.00 a month. I said, Okay, is that hindering you from doing your
real estate? She said, Kind of. I said, So what do you think? She said, I think I
need to quit my job. I said, Okay. Are you willing to do that? She said, Sure.
Since shes done that, shes closed a couple of transactions that she wouldnt have closed
and made more money on it. So did we digress a little bit? Sure. But we went the right
direction.
INTERVIEWER: Well thats good. I think that went well.
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PARTICIPANT #11: Did this help?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, it was very good.
PARTICIPANT #12
PARTICIPANT #12: Coaching is the art or skill of finding where a person is, where they
want to go, and helping them, directing them, facilitating them to that end goal, that end
product. And that could lead down a lot of different paths to get to that goal, but
hopefully its directing them back into that place that they want to go, or it could even
involve changing the goal along the way because they might find that what they were
chasing after was not ultimately what they really wanted. So helping them discover what
it is thats truly going to bring them happiness or satisfaction or true fulfillment or
significance.
INTERVIEWER: So lets elaborate on determining where theyre at. So elaborate on
that a little bit.
PARTICIPANT #12: Determining where they are is basically looking at their business,
looking at their life, and seeing where they are because obviously they are not coming
from a vacuum; theyve already experienced and had successes in their lives, hopefully,
and probably a lot of failures too. But I want to find out where they are, what theyre
proud of, which of their accomplishments we can use as a springboard to get them to the
goals that theyve set out or the action steps. What will work with them and what wont
work with them because theyve got some wounds that theyve experienced from their
upbringing or from their profession or whatever and I need to know what those are so that
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Im not repeating those wounds with them. But also I want to know what they did that
got them there so I can use that to help them move down the line. I need
INTERVIEWER: So not only wounds but maybe positive skills that theyve developed.
PARTICIPANT #12: Absolutely. I was talking to a gal yesterday who was a
pharmaceutical rep for years and years, she is great at selling people. She is great out
there in the public. You know, she needs to be outside the office. And our conversation
yesterday was that her boss is angry because shes not in the office. Im saying, thats
not where your team needs to be. You need to be building a team outside the office
because thats where your leads are going to come from. Sitting in the office is not going
to bring you leads. So she has the skill and ability to talk to anybody out in the
community so she needs to capitalize on that.
INTERVIEWER: So in your initial definition you mentioned facilitating also.
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. Im a facilitator, so Im naturally not going to sell people on
stuff. Im going to look at what the options are and direct them and talk them through
what their options can be and hopefully provide them an environment to grow to walk
down this path that they want to go.
INTERVIEWER: Could you give me the definition of a facilitator?
PARTICIPANT #12: A facilitator? A facilitator is someone who listens to a person and
then directs them or helps them to identify a path to go down or options to go down that
they can then choose for themselves if that is the path they want to go to or negotiate that
idea or that path to where it would work for them because, obviously, I dont have this
persons whole history. I know only what theyve told me or what I can see.
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INTERVIEWER: So could you contrast that with the word teacher, why you wouldnt
call yourself a teacher? And you call yourself a facilitator instead.
PARTICIPANT #12: Well in the strict manner, Im not teaching them about content of
material. I may go into a teacher role if they dont know about some of the options that
they have, but facilitating I guess is helping them to use the arsenal of tools that they have
and saying could you bring this back out of your quiver and could you use that as a way
to get to your goal kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: So its more dealing with what they have in their quiver than dealing
with what you have in your quiver?
PARTICIPANT #12: Well, I bring that too. So I mean there is an element to teaching.
INTERVIEWER: But you are a little more conscious about their skills and their
drawbacks also.
PARTICIPANT #12: And Im not going to bring out my stuff unless I know that they
are open to it, you know.
INTERVIEWER: So you want to feel them out first before you throw out things that you
know?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. There is a lot of negotiation to it too. I want to make sure
that Im not giving them something thats going to tick them off. I want to
INTERVIEWER: You want to get buy-in?
PARTICIPANT #12: Right, exactly, and thats the facilitative part of that.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. So here we have a specific question that weve already
answeredhow do you feel coaching differs from teaching? So lets talk about, weve
changed the, this used to be called an executive coaching firm but now theyre calling it
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business coaching, so could you define business coaching, tacking the word business
onto coaching?
PARTICIPANT #12: Sure. Business coaching is looking at where they are in their
business. Hopefully, they are business-minded. They come to us with some sort of
business that they are in whether it is real estate or what have you, and we want to find
out if they are truly looking at their business from a business perspective. And often
times a person who goes into business is not well-rounded in their perspective of what
they need as a business owner. So that is what we as business coaches help them with to
gain that perspective, to say, have your thought about profit margins? Have you thought
about profit and loss statements? Have you thought about how you want your business to
look at the end of a year, or two years, or five years? So we help them with strategic
planning, looking at the different elements of business itself and their business
specifically and helping to bring those two together so that they are having not only a
global perspective but a specific perspective on their particular business and what they
are trying to accomplish.
INTERVIEWER: So that brings in the mechanical portion of needing to earn more than
you spend, looking at expenses and things like that.
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. And that is where the teaching may come in because I may
have to teach them about some of those aspects of business that they are not thinking
about yet, or direct them to a book or a web site or something that may help them, a tool
to add to their arsenal.
INTERVIEWER: We asked this on the demographic survey but could you elaborate on
the preparation you had to be a business coach?
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PARTICIPANT #12: Well a lot of it came here.
INTERVIEWER: In-house training?
PARTICIPANT #12: From training in here. I have a Bachelors in Business
Administration. I have a Masters in Education, and I have experience as an elementary
school teacher. So I think all of those elements came together. I had some experience for
a couple of years in an underwriting assistants position in a mortgage company. So all
of that comes together for this particular job and so I use those different elements in
leading people, and also in leading small groups. Ive lead small groups, in church and
here, but that helped to make me a more rounded business coach, I think, because Ive
got that people experience.
INTERVIEWER: Could you describe the coaching process, not in a single coaching call,
but like you get the person in and over the course of a few months what that coaching
process is like?
PARTICIPANT #12: The way I look at it is they are coming to me because they want
their business to grow or develop, so I want to know where they are today, what their
business looks like, what their goals are, not only in the business but outside the business,
because I want to make sure they are staying balanced in their lives and not being myopic
on their business. They may need to be myopic for a short while but I
INTERVIEWER: So youre talking about personal goals?
PARTICIPANT #12: Right, because we cant isolate the business from the rest of the
stuff. So I find out what they want, where they want to go, and then I introduce, because
theyve either heard about the boss or theyve been to a Turning Point, or theyve done
something, so the systems are what Im trying to keep them accountable for because I
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know that those systems work and are going to help them get more business. So I try and
make sure they are being accountable to doing something proactive for their business to
help it to grow. So thats keeping them focused on that and that includes taking them to
the web site so they can see their own growth through the process, that they are tracking
their numbers, they are doing the things that will eventually turn into a transaction and
turn into money for them in their bank accounts. So those are the early steps and once
you get them solidified in that and, too, the process, they dont get it in three months,
they dont get it in six months. The way I think about it is that Im helping them to adopt
a working-by-referral mindset. Some of them are further along that path than others
when they come to me. With others it takes five years to get them to the point where they
are thinking about it out in the community, asking for referrals and stuff.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about your experiences coaching. Here Im looking for like a
fishing story about some coaching experience you had. Like the little old lady in
Coronado who had a million dollars house and thought it was worth a hundred grand.
PARTICIPANT #12: Okay. Well Im thinking of one of our clients who was transferred
to me. She had moved from California to Alabama. I got her when she was in Alabama.
She had been with us for a couple of years at that point. Her husband had just gotten a
position in Washington just outside of Washington D.C. So she was in the process of
closing down her business in Alabama. She was going to be there for another eight or
nine months because her kids were graduating and they wanted to finish out the year
there. Then they moved up to northern Virginia. So that year was, I mean she definitely
got the system, she knew what to do. She was touching base with people. She had a
good handle on it, but when she got to northern Virginia for the first year and a half she
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was in tears on most of the calls because she didnt have the business. She was talking to
people; she was
INTERVIEWER: She hadnt built her network yet.
PARTICIPANT #12: Yeah. She had some because she and her husband both had been
in the military before, so they had some contacts in Washington D.C. but not a lot. She
just basically met her neighbors and did all, she got on the football booster squad at the
high school with her kids being in ball, so she really networked, networked, networked.
Today, she doesnt feel the affects of the market. She is probably going to close more
transactions this year than she has in any year past.
INTERVIEWER: Is it that a lot of her competition is falling off
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. But she really knows how to treat her clients well and her
clients bring her other clients. She just has people, she is busier than all get out and she
has brought on her daughter as a buyers agent. She has brought on a young high school
student for the summer to help her out with the business and things like that. It is a great
story.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about some things youve done that work well as a coach.
Some little tricks youve used.
PARTICIPANT #12: Well I think when I get discouraged, and I tell my clients this,
when you get discouraged, when you get a negative client you are talking to, one of the
things I do is to pick up the phone and call one of your best clients. Like, Id pick up the
phone and call xxxxx at the end of the day because she is going to pick me up. So think
of the client who is going to put a smile on your face and call them. They dont know
that youre calling them for a boost. They just think, hey, s giving me a high-touch
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call. Its good for them and its good for me because I get to talk to somebody who I
know is going to be a positive experience at the end of the day. So that just helps
INTERVIEWER: So you dont end on a negative note.
PARTICIPANT #12: Exactly.
INTERVIEWER: And tell me some things youve done that do not work well.
PARTICIPANT #12: Do not work well? Well I think communication. When I have not
communicated well with a client, thats the toughest thing; and its kind of hard because
sometimes our hands are tied by the way that they want us to do things. And so I just
think about one lady who was really so upset that she was going to quit but she didnt
know that she needed to quit by the 20th of the month because of accounting purposes.
So she got ticked off about that. So I think the lack of communication or not being able
to communicate fully has been a challenge for me sometimes.
INTERVIEWER: So you might not have known that was a factor in how she was going
to be billed?
INTERVIEWER: So it would have been good if you had known that so you could have
communicated that to her.
PARTICIPANT #12: And I think too its not checking, the thing that is the challenge is
not checking for understanding with a client. I may have communicated it to her but she
didnt hear it, because she was busy processing something else I may have told her
earlier. At the end of the call I should have asked her to repeat what I had said so I could
make sure that we were on the same page. So probably not checking for understanding is
the thing that I need
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INTERVIEWER: So what formal or coach-specific education did you receive for this
job?
PARTICIPANT #12: In-house training you mean?
INTERVIEWER: Youve got the Masters in Education. Did you have any experience
with coaching like sports or anything like that? I guess a lot of experience was in the
church, huh?
PARTICIPANT #12: Teaching is kind of coaching in some ways.
INTERVIEWER: So when you teach do you use facilitator type things even when youre
teaching children and stuff like that?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. You dont want to tell children stuff. You want them to
discover for themselves, rather than me being the mouth.
INTERVIEWER: Because theres that idea of andragogy you know and that guy came
up with that theory. His initial premise was that adults learn differently than children and
he came up with this theory and then he tried the techniques on children and found it
worked better with children also. So his initial premise was wrong, but thats how he
developed this kind of facilitator model. Did you have any less formal training, maybe
some things youve done on the side? Like maybe as a musician?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes, thats exactly where I went in my mind is the training Ive got
inIve been trained in a specific method of teaching children how to read or helping
children to read and write music. And that has been great in my teaching career, in my
coaching career, in
INTERVIEWER: Is it the Suzuki thing?
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PARTICIPANT #12: Its called Kodi. Its a Hungarian method of teaching children and,
again, it mirrors what the boss has come up with in the last five, six, seven years; its
sequential. Its very sequential.
INTERVIEWER: What was that? He had a book you mentioned, The Way, what was it?
PARTICIPANT #12: The Kaizan Way.
INTERVIEWER: Is that similar to Kodi?
INTERVIEWER: So Kodi is Hungarian and The Kaizan Way is Japanese?
PARTICIPANT #12: Kodi was a Hungarian educator and musician composer, and he
collected a bunch of tools together and formulated it into or observed it in the Hungarian
tradition. So its a series of different skills or tools, methods, that are brought together to
help children sequentially build and learn music.
INTERVIEWER: Thats the best answer Ive gotten to that question. Then do you have
any examples of how this training helped you in the job?
PARTICIPANT #12: Well, I think
INTERVIEWER: Not specifically that training but the in-house coaching training and
the educational training?
PARTICIPANT #12: I think it makes me think about, you know, what sequentially do
my clients need? They need to identify and I need to identify the baby steps, the small
steps that they need to get into to get them to be where they need to be. I think that helps.
The Heritage Profile stuff is phenomenal.
INTERVIEWER: So you do use that a lot?
PARTICIPANT #12: Absolutely, a lot.
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INTERVIEWER: Some of the coaches have had minimal training in the Heritage
Profile. Did you have any extra training in that? Some have moved from here over to the
coaching. But you just had the normal amount of training?
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about goal-setting with your clients.
PARTICIPANT #12: Well each year and each quarter, I try to review the goals with
them and they go to Turning Points hopefully and they write goals there. Hopefully, they
transfer them into the Five Circle goal area of the web site so I can see them and help
them track it. Then we look at them quarterly or once every six months to see where they
are, if they need to change that goal, if the time frame is realistic and things like that. So
its a matter of checking in and making sure, and scheduling. I encourage my clients to
put their goals into their calendar. I think thats a step where they actually make time to
work on that goal. Put it in as an appointment so that they can do something about it. I
think thats an important step that people just write it down and dont think about it again.
INTERVIEWER: Youre the first person thats mentioned doing that. So you have that
tracker and all this stuff; do you have clients who are unwilling to set goals?
INTERVIEWER: And what do you do about that?
PARTICIPANT #12: I work on their action steps. What are their action steps for the
next So I make tiny goals for them to help them with that.
INTERVIEWER: So you kind of take the back door into the goal. You just ask what
theyre going to do instead of writing a specific goal?
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PARTICIPANT #12: Right. Right. And then Ill talk to them about where they want to
be, that kind of thing. Well just talk about some of their goals, their dreams, you know,
what kind of vacation they want to take, where do you want to be kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: So do you see a tie between the results that clients get and their ability
to set goals or willingness to set goals?
PARTICIPANT #12: Oh yeah. If a client has a strong passion, a strong reason to get
something done or get to it, yes, they are all over it and Im just again kind of a facilitator
helping to maybe redirect them a little bit through the process.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever set the goals for the clients?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yeah, occasionally.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you determine what those goals are?
PARTICIPANT #12: Often times what the boss has set down as far as what transactions
were. Several years ago, I was given some statistics or percentages as to what a good
next-year goal would be from the previous year, so using those percentages Ive said,
Hey, lets shoot for this. Lets double. Lets increase by 20% or lets increase by 25%.
So you know, those kinds of things. When they dont have a clue as to where theyre
going or what theyre doing. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesnt. You just
have to negotiate along the way by letting them know were not on a pace to get that goal
so we need to redirect. So well talk about what is a good goal for them.
INTERVIEWER: So you mentioned sometimes clients come in with goals and then they
end up changing. Do you ever talk about helping them change the goal or your ability to
determine that the goal they have might not be a good one for them?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. Occasionally but not a lot.
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INTERVIEWER: They kind of figure this out on their own?
INTERVIEWER: So youre not really saying that you think thats not an achievable goal
or anything?
PARTICIPANT #12: Oh I do. If its clearly unattainable Ill say, Is that realistic?
INTERVIEWER: So other than goal-setting, are there any other techniques that you use
regularly to teach or coach your clients?
PARTICIPANT #12: Other techniques. Well, Heritage we talked about a little bit.
INTERVIEWER: So do you use their personality profile to determine what buttons to
push with this person?
PARTICIPANT #12: When I first get on the call, I try to get them to focus on successes.
What successes do we have to celebrate today? What have you done over the past two
weeks that you would like to brag about.
INTERVIEWER: Turn it into a positive call?
PARTICIPANT #12: Absolutely, because they will go down the negative without any
effort or
INTERVIEWER: And in a lot of these offices they end up having to live in, there is a
real toxic environment with everybody saying, Jeez, the business is going down the
tubes.
PARTICIPANT #12: Right. So I try to get them focused on the positive, like what
theyve accomplished. When I first started here, most of the time I would get a client on
the phone who would say, I didnt do anything this week, . I didnt want to call you.
I didnt want to talk to you. Well by the end of the call, we had established that they had
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done this and this and this, and I try to get them to focus on, Hey, thats something to
celebrate. You did do these things and thats where were going with this, trying to get
you in the mind set of working by referral. So it wasnt a total loss like you were telling
me at the beginning of the call. Thats why first off I try to get them to talk about what
theyve accomplished. It may not be what theyve written down as their action steps, but
its something that they need to celebrate.
INTERVIEWER: So this situation that we have here is called a distance-learning
environment where youre using the phone and the Internet and e-mail. So have you ever
coached people in person?
PARTICIPANT #12: A little bit.
INTERVIEWER: Is that different?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. You can see their body language. You can see if theyre
receptive or resistant, sure. You know, having done this for eight years, you can sort of
hear it on the phone too, with some people of course, and some are harder than others.
But you can hear some things, i.e., they go silent or whatever. So there is definitely a
difference.
INTERVIEWER: Are there things that are improved because of the distance-learning?
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about that.
PARTICIPANT #12: You dont see their body language, you dont see their resistance,
you dont see all the things theyre doing while theyre on the coaching call, which is
probably a good thing too. They also dont see you. You could be working on
something else at the same time. But with that distance, that separation, you become an
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authority figure. Whats the saying, A prophet is not given honor in their own land you
know kind of thing. So we become the experts. We know we have this certain
authoritative quality to it because we are not right there. We are off in WCC land and
theres something special about coming to Carlsbad, California and seeing the company
or doing something here, that kind of thing. So I think there is some advantage to it.
INTERVIEWER: So do you see anything that suffers because of the distance?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. There are some clients I have never met face-to-face and I
feel kind of cheated. I think some clients really are very visual and they would like to
know what their coach looks like, where they sit, what the environment is, you know, that
kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever thought about sending them a picture? Have you ever
done that?
PARTICIPANT #12: No I havent.
INTERVIEWER: You know, theyre talking about having web cams set up and things
like that. What do you think about that?
PARTICIPANT #12: I think its great.
INTERVIEWER: So theyre only going to use that for the group coaching?
PARTICIPANT #12: I think some of the coaches are actually using it for their regular
sessions too. It could be a great thing.
INTERVIEWER: So what would you do differently if you had face-to-face clients?
PARTICIPANT #12: Not a whole lotId take notes on the Internet. Id probably do
more writing than I would typing.
INTERVIEWER: In pen?
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PARTICIPANT #12: In pen.
INTERVIEWER: So youd have more of an appearance of paying attention to them?
INTERVIEWER: And so you have this appearance like youre not paying attention
when youre typing on the computer?
PARTICIPANT #12: I think its just harder because youve got a machine in front of
you. It would be awkward for me typing away. I think if I was writing something down
it would be less offensive or something like that.
INTERVIEWER: I guess we already talked about this; things that would be done better
in an in-person environment. Are there a couple of things you show these people how to
do that you could do better in person.
PARTICIPANT #12: Maybe doing some budgeting stuff; also mirroring how to listen to
another person. They need to listen to their clients, so I think listening and giving
feedback, mirroring back, eye contact, those kinds of things, just helping them with those
kinds of things and pointing it out to them.
INTERVIEWER: On the flip side of that, are there special techniques that you use
because youve got the distance thing? You mentioned taking notes on the computer
while theyre
INTERVIEWER: So it goes right into the computer and you dont have to copy your
handwritten notes. Is there anything else like that?
PARTICIPANT #12: Not that I can think of at the moment.
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INTERVIEWER: Can you walk me through a typical coaching call? So these are how
long?
PARTICIPANT #12: Thirty minutes. I always ask them how its going, what they have
to celebrate, what would they be proud to tell their coach about.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me more about, Hey hows it going?
PARTICIPANT #12: Just to check in and see how their temperature is today. Are they
hot? Are they cold? Are they excited about the call? Are they dreading the call, kind of
thing?
INTERVIEWER: So your, Hey, hows it going? has a lot to do with their business, not
really with them personally.
PARTICIPANT #12: No, more personally. Yeah. Then Ill get into what they have to
celebrate.
INTERVIEWER: So thats more of the business part of it.
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. And it can be personal, but Im hoping that theyll go to the
business. Then Ill say, Hows your business temperature today? Whats on the
docket? And sometimes that comes out in the celebration stuff. But I want to find out
what their needs, fears, frustrations and concerns are today about their business. And
then theyll talk about clients and things like that. Somewhere in that process well check
on their transactions, where they are with those clients, and I try to emphasize whether
theyve asked those clients for referrals in the last couple of weeks or Ill take them to
the web site to the referral source list and say, Okay, heres your list and these are the
As or A+s. Have you talked to them in the last 30 days? You have? Great! Do it
again. You havent? Okay, when are you going to talk to these As and A+s? So
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keeping them focused on what they need to do and then if we have time at the end, well
take a look at some of their goals. The action steps actually, part of the process is looking
at what they said they wanted to accomplish in the last two weeks, Ill go through lineby-line and ask how they did on this goal. And Ill put an update. How did you do on
this goal? Ill put an update. If they didnt do anything or theyre halfway through it,
then Ill move that up into the action steps for the next two weeks.
INTERVIEWER: So youre filling in their tracker for them?
PARTICIPANT #12: No. Well sometimes I am. Most of the time, theyve updated it.
INTERVIEWER: You might help them elaborate on where they are and emphasize that
its a positive place?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes. So well go over the tracking, the My Business, well check
to see who theyve contacted, not who, but how many people theyve contacted and stuff
like that. And then if we have time at the end well look at their goals.
INTERVIEWER: In the tracker, do you have people who are just unwilling to use that
and never log into the web site?
INTERVIEWER: And do you do it for them or do you just keep notes?
PARTICIPANT #12: Sometimes Ill do it for them, it depends on the client.
INTERVIEWER: Its easier for you to have it in the tracker than to have it in your
notes?
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about the wrap-up of the call.
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PARTICIPANT #12: We book another date, two weeks out, if its not a standing date,
and basically thats about it.
INTERVIEWER: Well you said something about going over their goals.
PARTICIPANT #12: If we have time at the end Ill check on how theyre doing with a
particular goal or if theyve mentioned a personal goal outside of the business goal, Ill
ask them how that went.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever set new goals at that point?
PARTICIPANT #12: If theyve completed a goal, sure.
INTERVIEWER: You mentioned action steps, do you go over those?
PARTICIPANT #12: Yes, at the end.
INTERVIEWER: Are those changing all the time?
PARTICIPANT #12: I would hope so. Yeah. Like I said, as we go through the action
steps from the previous week, ones that are still in process I put up into the next, and the
ones that are completed, oftentimes the action steps come through the conversation, like
theyll talk about something or other, and I will put it in the action steps without them
knowing it and then at the end of the call, I will say, Okay, this is what I gleaned from
the conversation today. This is what you said you wanted to do. You wanted to continue
this action step from the last time. And you said you wanted to meet with this person. It
wasnt a specific action step, but Im going to ask you about your meeting with this
lawyer or this person. And you said you wanted to call these ten people, so Im going to
ask you about those things.
INTERVIEWER: So youre confirming that they communicated with you and you do
that also by the way you make sure that they heard what you said also.
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PARTICIPANT #12: And then I ask them if theres anything else they want to add to the
list or is this enough. Then we choose a date for the next call and were good to go.
INTERVIEWER: Good. Thats like one of.
PARTICIPANT #13
PARTICIPANT #13: My definition of coaching is helping someone to reach their full
potential. Its working alongside of someone, not standing up and just preaching to them.
INTERVIEWER: So getting more specific about that, do you feel coaching is different
than teaching?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. I do. I feel in coaching you become involved with the
person, you are working with more than just giving them information. I always relate it
back to a teacher in school. They stand up and give the facts. Some good ones go
deeper, but mostly they just give facts, whereas in coaching you become involved.
INTERVIEWER: Then to get even more specific about the work you do here, youre
called a business coach here, so what do you think business coaching is?
PARTICIPANT #13: Obviously, I think business coaching is finding out the goals of the
person, what they want to do with their business, where they want to go and how they
want to get there. And then keeping
INTERVIEWER: But that would be something you would do if you were coaching
basketball too. Right?
PARTICIPANT #13: Well, probably, but with business coaching we find out exactly
what they need to run their business, run their personal life, and then develop a plan so
they can reach their numbers goal.
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INTERVIEWER: And did you have some preparation to be a business coach before you
came here?
PARTICIPANT #13: None before I came here as far as training goes.
INTERVIEWER: Thats a common theme I hear, and Ive heard from someone else that
weve had trouble here with people that have locked into a coaching model before they
came here. It is easier to work with people
PARTICIPANT #13: Training after youre here?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, yeah.
PARTICIPANT #13: No I did not.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well thats good. Could you describe the coaching process, not
really specific to what you do, well get into specifically what you do here, but the
process that, you know, if you were going to tell somebody what coaching is like, just the
process you go through.
PARTICIPANT #13: Well we have two calls a month, each of them for
INTERVIEWER: But thats more specific to what you do here. Im just saying
generally
PARTICIPANT #13: Oh the coaching process in general. In general, a coach is going
to, like I said before, theyre going to stand beside someone, theyre going to find out
their goals, and theyre going to find out how they work, whats the best motivation for
them to reach their goals, what is their rhythm as far as how they work and how they
want to reach their goals. Coaching is just giving encouragement and accountability and
maintaining contact with the client on a regular basis so that you can help them go
forward with their plans.
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INTERVIEWER: So they might miss a call and you have to be proactive about making
sure the call happens pretty soon after that missed one?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes and high-touching them in between calls. How are you doing?
Did you do this?
INTERVIEWER: Maybe an e-mail or something or a short call?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes, a short little call, siphoning things out between the scheduled
call times, added benefit to them, things that they might want or need. You know,
sending out personal notes of encouragement.
INTERVIEWER: The same kind of thing you ask them to do for their potential clients?
PARTICIPANT #13: Its exactly the same thing.
INTERVIEWER: Im trying to get fishing stories about coaching, little anecdotes like
the boss gives at the events.
PARTICIPANT #13: Just personal stories huh? I had one client who would never do,
she was afraid to go out of the house basically, afraid to make any contacts. We worked
together for a long time taking just little bitty baby steps like writing a personal note
where she didnt have to talk to anyone or face anyone. She had come from a very
abusive marriage and she had a lot of trauma connected to that. Over a period of about a
year and a half, she started making some pop eyes and she actually started talking to
people about business and in her form asking for referrals. She had some success. She
became totally enthusiastic about it, went on and developed a strong business in her area.
It wasnt a huge income, but for her area it was a good income. She ended up making
about $50,000.00 that first year. The first year that she started actually
INTERVIEWER: Drinking the cool aid?
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PARTICIPANT #13: Yes and she got a boyfriend. She was so petrified of men but she
actually got a boyfriend and
INTERVIEWER: So this didnt just affect her life.
PARTICIPANT #13: No. It affected all of her life. The encouragement and her ability to
feel good about herself again not only helped her business but it helped her personal life.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me some things youve done with coaching that worked well
for you.
PARTICIPANT #13: It always works well for me when I give more to my clients than
whats expected of me. The high-touch calls, the notes, sending
INTERVIEWER: Whats a high-touch call?
PARTICIPANT #13: Its a call I make between our regularly scheduled calls; Ill just
calling them out of the blue and maybe say, Remember last week you were going to do
six pop eyes or six phone calls by Tuesday? How did you do? Its Tuesday afternoon.
Did you get them done?
INTERVIEWER: Why do you call it a high-touch call?
PARTICIPANT #13: That is a good questionI dont know. Its just what the company
calls them, high-touch calls. Its just a little added bonus call for a short minute just to
touch them and go on.
INTERVIEWER: And then you were talking about another kind of (I interrupted you)
but you were talking about another kind of call besides a high-touch call. You were just
getting ready to like a progress call.
PARTICIPANT #13: Just a check-in call to see if they if they tell me, By next Friday
Im going to have called five people, call them on Friday afternoon and surprise them.
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INTERVIEWER: So youll make a little note to yourself when they say something like
that and put it on your calendar?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. I always call on their birthdays, send a card and call on their
birthdays. If they say their daughter is going in for surgery on next Thursday, Ill call
Thursday afternoon late or Friday morning to see how it went. So you spend a lot of your
time doing the extras. They are not required, but it makes a big difference.
INTERVIEWER: Have you fallen on your face a couple of times with things that didnt
work well?
PARTICIPANT #13: Oh Im sure. You always have Lets see.
INTERVIEWER: When you first got started, were there things?
PARTICIPANT #13: Oh, lots of things like nervousness, not feeling comfortable with
not feeling like you knew what you were doing. People would ask a question and you
wouldnt have the answers; problems with the computer. I remember one time I kept
saying when I was brand new I said, What do I say if someone asks me how long Ive
been a coach? And they kept telling me not to worry that nobody would ask that. Well
I was very concerned about that. On about my call with a new client he said, Just how
long have you been a coach? So Im stammering around to say, because at the point
they wanted us to say that wed been there about a year. Well Id only been here two
months.
INTERVIEWER: And you werent comfortable with that?
PARTICIPANT #13: No I wasnt comfortable with it. And he picked up on it. He says,
Well, why dont you tell me how long youve really been a coach? So I told him the
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truth and he said, Well, thats okay, but I think I do want a more experienced coach.
So he transferred.
INTERVIEWER: Did you think about saying, Were not here to talk about me, were
here to talk about you.
PARTICIPANT #13: I did do that because that was what we were encouraged to do. But
he was insistent and they have a right to know a little bit about the history and the
background of a coach too.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something specific to coaching though or teaching or real
estate that you did that didnt work well?
PARTICIPANT #13: No, I dont know of anything I can say that just didnt really work
well. You know, I got my calendar mixed up one time and I missed a couple of calls, and
that didnt set well with clients. You know, if you just forget about them. So now I have
a fail-safe system on my calendar so I dont miss anybody anymore. But that would be
probably the biggest thing that
INTERVIEWER: So the computer has kind of gotten in the way of your work a little
bit?
PARTICIPANT #13: Im not real computer literate and its not something I love
working with and so when I was brand new, I had some challenges with it, Now Im
pretty good with it.
INTERVIEWER: Youve gotten better?
INTERVIEWER: So youve actually had to work on a weakness yourself?
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INTERVIEWER: But this isnt something you get your clients, you work on their
strengths?
PARTICIPANT #13: Well, we have to address their weaknesses too because we have to
try to improve on those.
INTERVIEWER: So you dont just put them aside.
PARTICIPANT #13: No. We definitely bring those up.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have some formal coach training before you came here?
INTERVIEWER: But you had some training here, right?
PARTICIPANT #13: Ive had a lot of training here, and it is ongoing. I had a lot of
training when I first started; very intense training, and now we still have training at least
weekly.
INTERVIEWER: But none before you came here?
INTERVIEWER: What kind of experience did you have before you came?
PARTICIPANT #13: I hadnt had too many terribly many jobs. My biggest experience
before I came here was my husband is a real estate broker and has been a Club Met
member for ten years. So I was fully aware of what he does through the program, been to
all the Turning Points, all the Master Minds, weve been going for years. Ive now been
a coach a little over eight years, but I was well aware of the program before I started.
INTERVIEWER: So you were familiar with the company before you came here?
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any other training that was less formal than that?
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PARTICIPANT #13: Of any other kind of business?
INTERVIEWER: That you use here at this job?
PARTICIPANT #13: Just being married to a realtor for over 40 years. Thats training by
fire.
INTERVIEWER: So you are familiar with the business. How does the training that you
get here help you on the job?
PARTICIPANT #13: Well its constantly being upgraded and redefined for where the
market is. We get training on whats currently going on in the market. Part of the
training thats really good is synergizing with other coaches on their best practices, what
has worked for them, whats working for us, so we can share. Thats real life training.
INTERVIEWER: So the training adjusts to the changing market conditions?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. We always train on the basics and we, you know, have
refresher courses on the basics; but because of the current market weve had to have
training on new and different things.
INTERVIEWER: Here they use a process of goal-setting and sometimes you have
clients who are not that willing to set goals. Is there something you do with those clients
to get them to do the goals?
PARTICIPANT #13: Goal-setting is one of my personal challenges too. So when I have
clients who have trouble setting goals, we start off real small and, depending on what
their profile is, if theyre real specific in their profile or if theyre more of a global
person
INTERVIEWER: So youre talking about the Heritage Profile now?
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INTERVIEWER: So you have a personality profile on this person and youre using
things from that personality profile to help them set smaller
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes, immediate goals, like if its on a Monday, okay, Friday Im
going to walk for 30 minutes. That might be for a real specific person.
INTERVIEWER: So the tendency would be to set some kind of goal, like Im going to
lose 50 pounds and youre like, well how are you going to do that this week?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. You have to back that up. And some peoples goals will be
set out for five years from now. Well okay. You need action steps to get you to that fiveyear program, and maybe bring it down to heres the goal five years from now, but today
or this week or this month, we need to inquire about
INTERVIEWER: So it sounds like theyre not having a whole lot of trouble envisioning
themselves as a millionaire in five years but they have trouble setting the small goals.
PARTICIPANT #13: Thats right. So we start real small with just writing one little goal
if a person has trouble writing goals.
INTERVIEWER: So what if theyre just really unwilling to do the goals? Is there
something else you do besides making the goals smaller?
PARTICIPANT #13: They may be unwilling, but I just keep asking questions and find
out what their interested in or what would be important to them.
INTERVIEWER: To follow interests.
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. And then Ill either go into their web site and type it in
myself, and maybe they dont even know it at the time, or I at least make a note in their
file and we just keep asking questions on that until all of a sudden thats happened. Then
sometimes Ill say, You just reached a goal. They didnt know they set a goal but they
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did and theyve just accomplished it. And then its easier. They go, Oh, okay, well then
I can do that.
INTERVIEWER: So do you think what they actually do is related to the goal-setting if
they become aware of the goals?
PARTICIPANT #13: If they become aware of them, in most cases, they are always
much more willing to try it again. So lets try one more of those.
INTERVIEWER: So you actually do set goals for your clients sometimes and you type
them into the system.
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes I do. Sometimes they know it; sometimes they dont.
INTERVIEWER: And you determine that by asking probing questions?
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. I almost always start, and again it depends on their Heritage
Profile, but I tend to get a lot of relational clients; so I always start with something thats
important to them in their family. What would you like to do? Ive learned that they
have a son or a daughter or children, what would you like to do for them?
INTERVIEWER: So you would focus more on that than some numeric-type goal?
PARTICIPANT #13: It depends on the client because
INTERVIEWER: But these clients tend to be more people persons than mathematicians
right?
PARTICIPANT #13: Mine tend to be more relational. Some of the coaches get clients
that are more the pragmatic and the number people but on the whole, mine tend to be
more relational. So thats where I would start with them.
INTERVIEWER: So weve talked about how teaching and coaching are a little bit
different, but you teach your clients these systems that this company has in place. Is
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there some technique other than the coaching techniques that you use to teach them
something?
PARTICIPANT #13: Well, teaching would always come up when Im walking them
through the Lead Generation Tracker.
INTERVIEWER: So you walk them through the mechanics of how that thing works.
PARTICIPANT #13: That would definitely be teaching. I teach them the dialogues. I
teach them how to
INTERVIEWER: These are realtor-specific techniques to get people to sign on the line.
PARTICIPANT #13: Yes. And I would teach them the specifics of how the system
works. So once those are taught to them and they know how to do it, then I coach them
through actually doing it. I teach them how to do a pop eye and then we coach through
actually setting a time to go do it and actually getting it done, encouraging them and
celebrating with them when theyve done it.
INTERVIEWER: But sometimes you have to start with teaching the ABC thing.
INTERVIEWER: So what weve got here, they call it distance-learning. You know in
the bigger picture of things, how does that differ? You go to events every one in awhile
and then you actually do some face-to-face coaching there. How is the distance thing
different than the face-to-face?
PARTICIPANT #13: I think for a lot of people its better to do the distance by the
phone. I think when were face-to-face a lot of times they seem to be more nervous and,
Oh my gosh! Ive got to be just what my coach wants me to be. And you know we
dont coach at these events but when a client comes up and asks you a question, which
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they always seem to do, I feel like the distance coaching by the phone calls is a lot of
times better. They can concentrate. We dont have outside influences going around, and
they are in a place where they feel safe and secure and its, you know, not threatened
by
INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else that the distancing brings into the picture?
PARTICIPANT #13: Not that I know of.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something that you think suffers because youre not right there
with them?
PARTICIPANT #13: Some people say they would prefer to be face-to-face with a coach.
Personally, I would prefer the phone.
INTERVIEWER: Why is that?
PARTICIPANT #13: Just from what I said, I think theres more of, unless you have a
really solid, solid long-term relationship with a client, I think it would be less threatened.
I think it would be more threatening for whatever reason to be face-to-face. Now the one
thing I think with face-to-face they couldnt hide from you. Hiding would be more, they
would have to be taking notes, they would have to be not multi-tasking, doing multiple
things at the same time, which sometimes they do.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something that you would do differently if they were face-toface?
PARTICIPANT #13: Well, I dont think there would be anything different that I would
do with face-to-face versus the phone. I think I would still handle the call or the meeting
the same.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something you think might be better if you were face-to-face?
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PARTICIPANT #13: For some people it would be better, but not for all.
INTERVIEWER: Is there some special technique other than the stuff weve mentioned
that you do because its over the phone and not using e-mail and the Internet.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Lastly, Id like to get you to describe what a coaching call is
like.
PARTICIPANT #13: On every coaching call we give action steps. Things that the client
and the coach agree together on that the client wants to do. So we always go over those
action steps.
INTERVIEWER: You just jump right into that?
PARTICIPANT #13: Well first we chit chat for a minute. How are you doing? Hows
the family. And then we go, okay, lets see what you did last week. And so we go over
the action steps. How did you do on those? Usually there are three of them. I will have
their Lead Generation Tracker up which tracks their numbers. I might ask them to bring
that up too so we can look and see what kind of business they have, whats closed, whats
pending, what did they do proactively? We go over those numbers. We go and take a
peek at their goals to see if they accomplished anything. If they worked on something,
we open it up and put an action step in there of something they worked on, ask if there is
anything specifically anything they want to talk about, any problems or concerns, and
finish the call by assigning three more action steps, and agree to talk again in a couple of
weeks. Sometimes
INTERVIEWER: Is there more of a wrap-up than that?
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PARTICIPANT #13: Well, yes, of course. But thats the simplified version of it.
Discussing the three action steps is, you know, all of these things
INTERVIEWER: So you, specifically, do three action steps?
PARTICIPANT #13: No. It may be more than that. It may be less than that.
INTERVIEWER: But thats your goal, is to get three?
PARTICIPANT #13: My goal is to get three. But they can be in any of those five
circles. They are not all just business goals. They may be walk a half hour three days a
week. They may be make five phone calls and write ten personal notes. They may be
call three of your past clients and see how theyre doing; but it varies. I mean, thats the
basic format and then it all varies. Sometimes a call will be strictly personal. Well
hardly even get to any business, but if thats what that client needs because they just had
a family tragedy or emergency, then
INTERVIEWER: So the big point is that there isnt a strict formula for them.
PARTICIPANT #13: You kind of have a format, but you cant depend that thats how
its going to stay. You can go in there with a perfectly laid-out plan, i.e., this is what I
want to talk about today, this is what I want to do, and you say, Hello. And they go off
in some other direction altogether.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. You did good there.
PARTICIPANT #13: Great!
PARTICIPANT #14
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching, thats coaching in general, not
just here?
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PARTICIPANT #14: Helping somebody achieve their goals and often pushing them past
or beyond what they thought was possible for themselves.
INTERVIEWER: You dont have to read them, you can just
INTERVIEWER: So how do you feel thats different than teaching?
PARTICIPANT #14: Asking questions versus instructing.
INTERVIEWER: So with the teaching youre kind of telling them and with the coaching
youre asking
PARTICIPANT #14: Drawing them out. The theory is more that they have the answer
and youre drawing that answer out from them.
INTERVIEWER: Here they started calling this business coaching, so they probably have
some definition of that, but I want your definition.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah, I know. Weve got the whole weight on instructing,
directing, and encouraging. But I have to agree, that was a well thought out definition for
what we do. But for the most part you know weve got folks that want to grow their
business and so youre helping them to do that, helping them to define what that means.
And for a lot of them, you know you also have folks who dont necessarily want to grow
their business, they just want to have more balance between business and personal. So
that may be what youre coaching the businesses how to do what they do but do it more
efficiently so they can get home to their family. Its really so different for each person.
INTERVIEWER: And did you have some kind of preparation before you got this job?
PARTICIPANT #14: I was a teacher and so there is
INTERVIEWER: Did you have a special area that you taught in?
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PARTICIPANT #14: English is what my degree was in.
INTERVIEWER: Was it K/12 that you were teaching?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. Sixth through 12th mainly, and I also taught PE so I actually
did some sports coaching as well. So I had that kind of coaching experience. My minor
was coaching but obviously its totally different, you know.
INTERVIEWER: Do you use some sports coaching stuff?
PARTICIPANT #14: To some degree probably. Sometimes you pull out an analogy.
You know, you just kind of have that mindset from that.
INTERVIEWER: So at this company they have a system that they teach. But the next
question is about the coaching process and it doesnt have to be like in a half-hour call, it
could be over six months or the lifetime of a client. Could you tell me about that
process?
PARTICIPANT #14: The process, because we do get people to go to a lot of events, and
one of the things that we are very consistent on is, yes we have a system that were
teaching them, but we also within each event have them setting goals. So I think a part of
the coaching process is that they are continually looking at their goals, creating new
goals, being reminded of old goals that theyve set; and so again in the business circle
and all areas of their life, I think a part of the coaching process is the fact that they are
probably more than the average person coming up with, this is what Im focused on, and,
like you said, sometimes its for the short-term, thats what I want to do in the next 30
days, and sometimes these are long-range goals of getting their business to a place where
they can start some charity.
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INTERVIEWER: So at these events you hear the boss giving all these anecdotes, you
know the little old lady in Coronado with the million dollars house. Do you have one of
those?
PARTICIPANT #14: I do. As far as like coaching
INTERVIEWER: Fishing stories.
PARTICIPANT #14: A success story or whatever?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
PARTICIPANT #14: One of my success stories is how I got somebody to quit coaching.
And it was that her goal as a lender was to be able to make enough money that she could
have another baby and be able to be a stay-at-home mom. So when she got pregnant and
quit and said, I want to quit coaching, she said, but I want you to know you helped me get
to this point because you helped understand how to budget, how to save, and now as a
stay-at-home mom I can actually passively get leads and hand them off to other people
and still be
INTERVIEWER: So you were a victim of your own success?
PARTICIPANT #14: Exactly. And I think actually, you know, we kind of joke around
here theres really no graduation from WCC, but I think really the best coaching,
somebody does graduate because they move on. You know, if theyve truly worked this
system and they ultimately retire, they leave to go work in Africa or whatever their thing
may be, I mean thats like the ultimate thing, that youve gotten somebody to that place
where theyve sold their business for a profit
INTERVIEWER: But he still might seem a master mind
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PARTICIPANT #14: Oh yes, exactly, they still believe in what we do because we helped
them get there.
INTERVIEWER: So other than the things weve already talked about, do you have
something that really works well in the coaching?
PARTICIPANT #14: In the coaching specifically? Probably for me, this is where I
stopped writing answers down, so now youre getting my analytical. For me its just
getting to know people as people and you know, I guess just treating them, I dont know,
I have that coach in my Heritage Profile that we have here of always trying to look for the
best. So probably, no matter what excuse somebody gives me, Im always going to try to
come up with an idea for them of, okay how can we do it differently next time?
INTERVIEWER: So youre giving them a different perspective on what they might
think is a really bad week or something?
PARTICIPANT #14: Exactly. Of like what progress did we make? How are we moving
forward?
INTERVIEWER: Focusing on the positive?
PARTICIPANT #14: I always try to stay focused on the positive and you know, taking
any negatives they give me of, what can we learn from it?
INTERVIEWER: So has there ever been something youve tried doing where you just
keep falling on your face?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. I think there are some people where that approach isnt
pushing them hard enough. They need the kick-in-the-ass coach. They want that. And
maybe they are so hard on themselves or so competitive with themselves that they dont
really want a coach thats grace
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INTERVIEWER: So is that sometimes not you. You might want to move them over to
Nancy?
PARTICIPANT #14: Exactly. Its the coach that says, Why didnt you do that? You
know and is just a little more hard core with them. Some people really respond well to
that, but I think also part of our coaching, because we have that Heritage Profile, we
know ourselves and we know our clients based on that profile. We have a saying around
here that you should be able to coach anybody and while I think thats true, I think there
are people who are more designed for you to coach and some that on every call youre
always having to be somebody else because thats what they need you to be. And that
gets exhausting, especially if youve
INTERVIEWER: They talk about realtors giving away clients because theyre toxic and
theyre giving them to their worst enemy.
PARTICIPANT #14: Well its not that theyre toxic, its just that you know what, this
person is so different than me
INTERVIEWER: Sucking too much energy from you?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. It like literally drains me to have to be who I need to be for
that person so why dont I give them to the coach that has that personality.
INTERVIEWER: You have had some formal coaching training in college. Is there
anything youd like to elaborate about on that that we didnt talk about already?
PARTICIPANT #14: My saying, you know, because I have people all the time who ask
me if this is like teaching or do I miss teaching or things like that; so my thing that I
always tell people is that its a lot like teaching except now my students pay to show up
to class, unlike public education. But just like public education, just like teaching,
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people still dont always do their homework, no matter how wellor youve got people
who do a little bit, get by, and
INTERVIEWER: I have this slide, I teach some classes, so I only give them five power
point slides for the whole class. Its a five-week class, and its a picture of a dog eating
your homework, and I tell them how I really dont want to know about that, because
theyll tell me that their wife left them, my dog died, grandma got run over by the train,
and I dont really want to know. So did you have any less formal training that we havent
mentioned?
PARTICIPANT #14: Prior to coming to the company?
INTERVIEWER: Or even here, if you want to talk about the training here.
PARTICIPANT #14: Im the only coach here that started in AMI, which is now AMD,
the Ability Management Department, so my training was, the first year I was here,
knowing the Heritage Profile, so when I came on board, every other coach, and that was
when we were just starting to do Heritage training for the other coaches
INTERVIEWER: So youve had more Heritage training than the other coaches?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. Exactly. I had a full year of that training, so when I got
ready to start working with people, knowing what makes somebody tick and which
buttons to push, you know that was kind of my area of expertise.
INTERVIEWER: Are you a fan of the book that John wrote?
PARTICIPANT #14: I think for what John needed it to be, because its pretty generic, it
gives a good overview. The toughest part, having come from that department, is
everybody wants to know everything about the Heritage Profile and I would too if I were
a client. The problem is when they give it to somebody who hasnt been profiled and
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then they want to get that person profiled and that person comes and says, Well now I
know Im a detective and a refiner and Im a this and a that. Well it just
INTERVIEWER: Thats not what he said on the interview though.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes and it just blew the, you know, we really like getting the
people for our Heritage Profile that have no knowledge of why were asking the
questions and they dont have these canned answers of, I like to problem solve, therefore
Im a this.
INTERVIEWER: So they want to be superman in the Heritage Profile?
PARTICIPANT #14: Theyre skewing the profile because theyre coming in believing
they are already this. And they may be right, but there are so many subtleties in it of, you
know, its hard to explain but anyway, so yes, that would probably be my less formal
training and then once we start as coaches then we you know get the coaching training.
INTERVIEWER: So weve already talked about this next question quite a bit. So well
skip that one.
INTERVIEWER: A lot of coaches right here, not only here but in other places, there is a
lot of goal-setting going on. Do you have some tricks to get them to set goals or do you
have them set goals?
PARTICIPANT #14: The nice thing is, probably 95% of our clients are coming in
because theyve come to a Turning Point event, thats been the past history, it may not be
the current or future history, but if theyve gone to an event then they are automatically
going to have some goals that theyve set.
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INTERVIEWER: And the boss has already had them set some goals and theyre
showing up with a piece of paper in their hands.
PARTICIPANT #14: Exactly. Even still with that again, largely based on their profile,
how they write goals is going to be very different. Some people have very, very shortterm specific goals that they want to accomplish. Other people have these long-range
dreams but they have no idea how to get there. And you have some people who just have
these very broad, I want to be happy, I want to be healthy, and trying to get them to break
that down. So I think in terms of getting them involved
INTERVIEWER: You drill it down to the specifics then?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. So in terms of how to get them involved you just keep asking
more questions so that you get the specifics, you find out what that means, again, almost
everybody puts the same two things on their business analysis, i.e., I want to grow my
business and I want accountability. Thats why I got into coaching. But what that means
to every person, you knowtotally different.
INTERVIEWER: It takes you a long time to figure that out as a coach.
PARTICIPANT #14: Well, yes and no, because really again if coaching is asking
questions, thats really where you start on day one. So what does grow your business
look like? What does accountability look like? How do you want to hear that from
me? And so you get
INTERVIEWER: But do you ever have to ask that question for three months before you
start getting some real answers out of them?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes, sometimes you get people who dont quite know.
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INTERVIEWER: Other than this stuff weve already talked about, if they are unwilling
to do the goals, do you have any other tricks that youve
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah, Ive got one of those right now. And I guess right now
were just kind of at the point where were talking and talking and talking and maybe not
getting anywhere
INTERVIEWER: So youre kind of beating around the bush but your goal is to drill
down into what the actual goal is?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. Ive got two brothers that Im coaching and so they attended
an event together recently. The one kind of tattled on the other saying, You know, he
didnt write any goals down. Its all up in his head. Theyre trying to build a business
together, but the one has no idea what the other wants to do because hes not writing
anything down. So were talking about you may not think you need to write your goals
down
INTERVIEWER: But your partner thinks
PARTICIPANT #14: Your partner does and your coach does and so if nothing else I get
him to try to talk about it and then I write it down. Then that may be, Well you said you
wanted this. Is that still the case? So now youre coaching two people; thats a different
animal altogether.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever just write the goal for them? Like put #5 in the notes box
or
PARTICIPANT #14: Well in terms of action steps that theyve done? Like short-term
action steps?
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INTERVIEWER: Like telling them theyve got to write five notes every week or three
call bys or
PARTICIPANT #14: When its a brand new client and theyre trying to figure out, I
dont even know what number is a good number here and theyre looking to me, Ill tell
them. Well, you know
INTERVIEWER: And youll just take a shot in the dark?
PARTICIPANT #14: Well the boss has some recommendations on things and sometimes
from a business analysis I can already tell that that recommendation is way off mark for
them and sometimes its way too easy for them. So if the boss recommendation is to do,
lets just say 25 notes a week, and youve got somebody that has tried to do two a week
and that hasnt worked, Ill tell him, Ultimately, the goal for you is 25 notes a week, but
lets just get started with something you can achieve. What do you think is realistic?
Five, maybe seven or ten, and
INTERVIEWER: So you try to get them talking about it before you put that number in
the box?
PARTICIPANT #14: I try to get them to talk, yeah, because some of them will just put
the 25. Well if the boss says I have to do 25 I have to do 25 and then the next week they
show up and theyre totally dejected because, again, they did two. You know. But if
now you start to say, Lets make the goal five, and they get five, well now all of a
sudden they realize they can do that; okay, good, can you do seven, can you do ten? And
then you get them winning at their level and now they start to pick up the pace closer to
what their real goal would be.
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INTERVIEWER: Have you seen any correlation between setting the goals and the
results that they get?
PARTICIPANT #14: Oh yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Over time.
PARTICIPANT #14: Well thats the whole thing with the coaching. If they werent in
the coaching, they probably wouldnt do anything. And so because they are in something,
again they may be beating themselves up knowing that they said theyd do 15 but they
only did 12, but thats probably 12 more than they would have done
INTERVIEWER: But do you see the sales reflected in the 12?
PARTICIPANT #14: Oh yeah, I gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
INTERVIEWER: So youve seen trends?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes, and when you dont see the trend, again its a coaching
moment to go in and ask more questions. Like I had one gal
INTERVIEWER: So they might just be saying theyre doing the five notes and theyre
not really doing them?
PARTICIPANT #14: You know, I havent really had that happen a whole lot, but what I
have had is people that are doing a large level of activity at times and not getting results,
and when you go in and you find out how theyre doing the activity, theyre not doing it
effectively. So theyre, like we talk about, asking for business. You know, theyll go
do
INTERVIEWER: So theyll do the pop eye but they wont at the end go, Oh, by the
way, Im always ready for your referrals.
PARTICIPANT #14: Exactly. I had one gal who, you know, she
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INTERVIEWER: So these people dont even know youre there fishing for business
really, they just think youre there trying to be their buddy.
PARTICIPANT #14: I had one gal that for six months she had hundreds and hundreds of
calls and hundreds and hundreds of notes, and when I looked at the number of referrals it
was like six or something in like a six-month span. And when I asked her how often she
asked for business, it was like, Oh well, not very often. Well you just did 200 notes for
nothing or 300 calls for almost nothing. People dont know why youre calling.
INTERVIEWER: So do you ever use your teaching, not your coaching, but your
teaching skills with the clients?
PARTICIPANT #14: I do, especially with newer clients who dont quite know the
system.
INTERVIEWER: Is there some technique you use from the teaching that you would call
a teaching technique instead of a coaching technique?
PARTICIPANT #14: Probably. Yeah. If Im having to, you know, pull out the
resource, okay they dont know how to do a business to business or how to do this or that,
and so its, okay lets go look at what resources we have and so, you know, I may
actually teach them on the call; okay, this is how you do it, or if we already have a
resource, okay heres where its located on the web site. After our call, heres your
homework and I probably use the term homework quite a bit instead of action step
because I still think in terms of teaching a lot of times.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. So with the education background you have, youre familiar
with the distance-learning, the in-the-classroom type thing, or one-on-one in person. So
what do you think is different about this situation because it is distance-learning?
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PARTICIPANT #14: Its interesting because it sounds like this is kind of where, if you
have a thesis, its kind of going in the direction of the distance thing.
INTERVIEWER: Well the reason that question is in there is because somebody already
did this study, and one of their recommendations for further research is that somebody
should do a study on distance coaching and this just happens to be a distance coaching
If I just came in here and didnt ask anything about distance, it wouldnt be a new study.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah, I gotcha. Its interesting because now that were starting
this whole web cam thing, thats throwing a different element into it too, so that even if
somebody is distant Im still seeing them face-to-face. I think just how that builds up
rapport in a relationship is totally going to be different. I actually lost a client one time
that when it was time to renew her, and Id had her for maybe two or three years but we
never actually went to the same event; she never came down here for Master Mind and
she even said to me, You know, if Id met you in person I think wed probably really
like each other and Id probably still want to be coached, but theres just something here
that were missing because were not ever meeting face-to-face.
INTERVIEWER: And did she go to another coach or did she just drop coaching?
PARTICIPANT #14: No, she left the program altogether, and she just said, Im such a
relational person, this is really a difficult thing to do this coaching
INTERVIEWER: Do you know if she ever got like a life coach that was there in her
home town?
PARTICIPANT #14: I doubt it. I really doubt it. I dont think so.
INTERVIEWER: For certain people its really difficult?
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PARTICIPANT #14: Yes, and even as a coach, I have had that feeling. Ive had people
Ive coached for years and never actually gotten to meet them face-to-face. Its difficult.
For me, I think the more relational you are the more difficult that aspect of the coaching
is. The difference
INTERVIEWER: So youve got more experience teaching in the classroom than you do
coaching?
PARTICIPANT #14: Well now, its getting pretty close, because I was a teacher for
about eight years and Im going on seven years here.
INTERVIEWER: But is there anything that is better for you because its a distancelearning thing?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes, I would say, and again this is without the web cams yet
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, a lot of people are like, theyre not real keen on the web cam
thing.
PARTICIPANT #14: Well, Im actually liking it more than I thought I would, but the
one thing thats different is
INTERVIEWER: I bet initially it was kind of a shock.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. The one thing for me is that I do rely quite a bit on my notes
and I can write down a great deal of information in my notes, but if I were just talking to
you Id probably be sitting here thinking, Okay, I think his wifes name is this, or I think
he has a dog named this. And because I can glance at my notes and you cant see that, I
can, you know, go, Hey, by the way, how is Leona? And you can respond. So there is
an even stronger sense of our relationship, but its really in my notes. There are some
coaches who recall that and have no problem doing so.
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INTERVIEWER: Im terrible with names.
PARTICIPANT #14: Its just things that I can go back to because I have a written record
in notes and I keep pretty thorough notes. When I think something is important that Im
going to need to go back to, I can do that and in a distance relationship I can consult it at
any point in time that Im talking to or in between talking to; whereas if we were just
talking
INTERVIEWER: You wouldnt want to be reading notes?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah, I couldnt look and its the same with the Heritage Profile; I
can constantly be looking at your profile while Im coaching you. You dont know Im
looking at it and saying, Oh hes got this and this and this, and I should speak to him
this way.
INTERVIEWER: So weve talked a little bit about how you werent comfortable with
the distance thing to begin with. Are there specific things that suffer because of the
distance?
PARTICIPANT #14: Like I said, more the relationship of some people and not getting to
meet them.
INTERVIEWER: So only for some people there are things that suffer, but not for
everybody?
PARTICIPANT #14: As a coach, I definitely feel more of a connection once Ive met a
person. You know, I think our relationship kind of takes off at that point.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had clients coming in her all the time would you do
something different?
PARTICIPANT #14: If it was constantly face-to-face?
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INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
PARTICIPANT #14: I have had clients that have come to town and well go to lunch
and kind of do a coaching session.
INTERVIEWER: They kind of discourage that here though dont they?
PARTICIPANT #14: I mean its not like we do that on a regular basis, but I have had a
couple of clients that have come in. I think part of the difference is just because its a
different rhythm and thats not what were used to, so there is a little bit of having to
change pace from what youre used to doing.
INTERVIEWER: Is it a slower or quicker pace?
PARTICIPANT #14: Probably a quicker pace. Again because its justyou know for
me, I think the difference is that I feel like we should just be sitting down and having a
conversation as friends, but Im your business coach. So okay
INTERVIEWER: So youre able to be a little meaner to them on the phone?
PARTICIPANT #14: You know I think that is probably
INTERVIEWER: And get away with it.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah, thats probably it. Its a little more informal and therefore it
allows you to push a little bit more informally. Again, like you did with the dog ate my
homework, I dont care about your excuse. Why didnt you get this done? You can see
the look in their eye, I really tried. Or you know whatever.
INTERVIEWER: I feel for you.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Could you just walk me through a typical coaching call?
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PARTICIPANT #14: For me, what Im doing is opening up. Okay where are my notes
from last time? Okay, lets open up the web site. We can see what theyve accomplished
if theyve logged it in. I can see what theyve said they were going to do and things
INTERVIEWER: So you do this before they get on the call?
PARTICIPANT #14: Im doing this as Im getting on the call with them. And so a lot of
the in-process coaching is very much multi-tasking; in fact, I remember one of the job
interview questions was, how well do you do multi-tasking? And now I understand why
they ask that. Now I have two screens now and its like
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, you guys didnt use to have two screens.
PARTICIPANT #14: No. So basically I usually open up with asking them to fill me in
on the last couple of weeks and sometimes they just dive right in and tell you whats been
going on. Other people, you know Ill usually ask whats going on that I can help them
with, and some people right away have an answer and other people just say they dont
even know.
INTERVIEWER: So with you theres no chit chat up front?
PARTICIPANT #14: To a certain degree, but I also dont want to waste their time.
INTERVIEWER: So you kind of get right to business?
PARTICIPANT #14: Ill ask whats been going on in the last couple of weeks and thats
usually an intro for chit chat. You know, I put my dog to sleep and I didnt get this done.
Or its been crazy
INTERVIEWER: So it usually starts out on a personal level with that initial question?
PARTICIPANT #14: You know I usually let them
INTERVIEWER: Decide where its going to go?
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PARTICIPANT #14: Yes, just by asking vaguely whats been going on in the last
couple of weeks, they can take that personally or business-wise, they can put that into any
realm that they want. I know in training theyve kind of said we shouldnt let the
personal thing go certainly for more than ten minutes of a 30-minute call and even that I
think is really pushing it. So unless its obviously something
INTERVIEWER: So its usually less than five minutes?
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. I mean unless it is something that is obviously a death in the
family or something, youre just not going to get to business today because something so
catastrophic
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes the whole call could be about some personal stuff?
PARTICIPANT #14: Especially when they have very catastrophic things going on.
INTERVIEWER: And from the companys perspective thats okay that they need
strength that week.
PARTICIPANT #14: Our theory is this; were being empathetic but then at some point,
when appropriate, trying to push them at the business level, and our saying is, I would
hate for a personal crisis to cause you to have a business crisis and later on 90 days after
this, that a business crisis has turned into a financial crisis. So not only did you suffer
the loss of a family member but now, a few months later, youre business is suffering and
you have no money. So
INTERVIEWER: So even on one of these calls that could turn into a 30-minute therapy
session, youre going to pull in a little bit of business.
PARTICIPANT #14: If its appropriate. And again, I think it would depend on the
severity of it.
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INTERVIEWER: But lets say that none of that stuff is going on, the middle of the call,
whats that like after youve gotten through the personal stuff?
PARTICIPANT #14: Then generally, looking at, again were a very, its pretty easy
because we have such a heres the system; so what did they get done in the last couple of
weeks. Its very rare that somebody gets everything done every week. So again its just,
do I have to coach them a little bit? I mean, some of them coach themselves like, they
know they didnt get it done and this is what I should have been doing
INTERVIEWER: They just need somebody to listen. But they need to say it out loud.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yes. Saying it out loud and then, okay, a lot of times its, you
know, this was my reason. Sometimes thats the real reason and sometimes thats an
excuse, and so youre digging again, asking questions about how we can get past this, or
how we can address the situation to get through it. So, again, this is where coaching is a
lot more of asking questions than, well you know, you really need to do it this way.
Youre not teaching them how to do something, because a lot of times theres some
mental block that you need to push them through. Then thats kind of a natural lead-in to
some action steps that theyve got for themselves.
INTERVIEWER: So thats the wrap-up of it?
PARTICIPANT #14: Its kind of a typical call.
INTERVIEWER: The typical end is the action steps?
PARTICIPANT #14: Generally and then there are going to be the things from time to
time you may be looking at okay, what other goals have we been setting? Lets take a
look
INTERVIEWER: So you might reevaluate the goals at the end of the call?
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PARTICIPANT #14: Exactly, and that might not be every call where youre referring
back to the goals at the start of the year and where are we now, but probably at least
every few months youre going to be saying, Okay, lets check in, first quarter down,
this is what youve sold, this is what you had, this is where the goals are and like right
now this almost the half-way point. There will be some people that are right on course
and some people that are way off course. There will be some people who are ahead of
schedule in terms of what their goals were. So this is the time of year when this is a
once-every-six-months call. So what were your goals at the start of the year? Do we
need to reevaluate that?
INTERVIEWER: So June is a different time for you really.
PARTICIPANT #14: Yeah and thats where coaching is a very organic process because
certain things come up at certain times of the year and so youre sticking that in, okay,
this is the time we talk about
INTERVIEWER: And sales have trends depending on what time of the year. There are
not a lot of people buying houses at Christmas.
PARTICIPANT #14: Well yeah, and, you know, it also depends on the part of the
country theyre in because its like my Canadian clients are explaining to me what its
like to sell houses in January in Winnipeg and, you know, its negative 40 degrees and
youre not going outside, so, you know, how are you going to show homes? So, you
know, every area of the country there is no one way to coach those people. Every area of
the country has its own little quirks. Over the years you start to learn, okay, heres my
new client and they are from this area. Hey, Ive had somebody from that area before
and you can kind of lean in like an expert and, hey, I know this about your area or
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whatever it may be. But, yeah, from time to time there are certain things you are going to
bring up specific to that time of year, business planning time of the year, goal review,
some of the things like with the boss doing conference calls month every month, thats
going to come up often and did you have a chance to review the topic and usually its a
very timely topic, so yeah, for some coaches that in itself would be a whole, yeah, a
weeks worth of topic for every call. You could talk about the speech on something new.
So its hard to say that theres ever a typical coaching call.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, but that was pretty good.
INTERVIEWER: That was more than other people did.
PARTICIPANT #14: Oh good.
PARTICIPANT #15
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching? Not the boss definition, but
your definition.
PARTICIPANT #15: Right and that was the thing I struggled with. I know we have a
public statement of what our definition of coaching is
INTERVIEWER: And I could just look that up on the web. I wouldnt have to do this,
huh?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes, you could, and after I thought about it, to me it is a process
that a coach work very specifically with a client based on their specific personality traits,
AKA the Heritage Profile, their lifes past and current experiences in order to develop
plans towards the support and identification of their future based on their goals, some
discovered, some not. Most people who, even right now the people that were attracting
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to coaching are leaning towards being more non-relational, more business oriented
people, and theyve never been to an event. They have no idea who we are or what we
do, just that we have a reputation out in the market and that were good at what we do.
INTERVIEWER: So youre missing the events?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yeah, theyre missing the events.
INTERVIEWER: No, I mean youre missing the events in that you would like to see the
events go on the way they were before the market was wrecked.
PARTICIPANT #15: I enjoyed them. The boss books, the Work by Referral, Live the
Good Life, thats like the two-day Turning Point in a book, so Im finding that I need to
get that to them immediately, because trying to tell a non-relational person what working
by referral looks like in the big scheme of things, its not being done at the one-day event.
But that book is a two-hour read, large font
INTERVIEWER: If it was up to you, would you bring the events back?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes, if it was possible, but thats not what the market says.
INTERVIEWER: But if money was no object, then youd bring them back?
INTERVIEWER: So have you ever taught before?
PARTICIPANT #15: Not at any particular type of structured career-type thing, no.
INTERVIEWER: Well if you were thinking of somebody as a teacher, how would you
think they would be different than a coach? You had an answer to that written down?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yeah. Teaching is more of a general training set up to support a
type of training that rarely takes into consideration the individual persons needs.
Coaching does include teaching because Im teaching someone to work by referral, but it
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is specific to each individual personality. So, for example, theres my tangent, I struggled
in school until about the tenth grade when I took a little three-month vacation from it, and
then they sent me to a continuation school. I struggled so much being in a classroom
environment with 30 to 45 kids with all the noise, all the distraction; they try to make it
like everybody learns one way. Well when I moved over to the continuation school, I
went from 0 to hero and ended up graduating six months early because their process
wastheres a classroom environment, theres a box of things you can choose from, this
is how much credit you earn, you pick what you like, you work on it on your own; if you
need help go talk to the teacher and then you get a test. And I still hold the record for the
most credits ever earned at the school.
INTERVIEWER: Wow!
PARTICIPANT #15: And later on, come to find out in my profile, Im what we call
being independent in my working environment. Its the most non-relational attribute, it
doesnt like
INTERVIEWER: Thats kind of funny that Im surprised that when youre answering
these questions youre taking more of a structured approach to it than anybody has yet.
PARTICIPANT #15: I am structured.
INTERVIEWER: By reading the answers, but looking at you, the way you dress and
everything, I find you more of a free spirit.
PARTICIPANT #15: Oh, I have a lot of conflict, but part of that conflict is being
independent. Independent people do not work well in environments with lots of people;
like when the boss does the conference calls, they want everybody to sit in the room
because he loves the energy. I sit at my desk and I take notes.
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INTERVIEWER: You listen on the Internet?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. I cant deal with it, but when Im one-on-one Im fine.
INTERVIEWER: So theyve recently started calling what they do here business
coaching. I want to know what your definition is, not what their definition is, but what
do you think business coaching is?
PARTICIPANT #15: Business coaching is the process of exploring the business owners
current state-of-the-union of where their business is at and where they need to move
forward into the direction they want to take their business. That being said, as a business
coach I believe it is most important that a coach be open and flexible to the changing
needs of their clients. And I look at that from the perspective of, especially when I get
some of the newer clients that have not been exposed to us. I had a call with a lady
today. Its her first call. Shes got a kick-butt business. Shes doing awesome. And
although she wants to be a part of working by referral and learn that, her greatest
motivation in life is exploring her spiritual world. If I were so tightly wrapped to not be
open to that, and Im like, Oh, dont be bringing me any of those people. I dont think
that relationship would work well; and so part of their great game here is matching up the
right people with the right clients, based on what the client wants. Some people have no
desire for their spiritual circle forever; they might need to actually have a focus on that
because they have blocked it off. Does that make sense?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have any preparation before you got this job?
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INTERVIEWER: What were you doing before you came here?
PARTICIPANT #15: Managing a picture frame store, satellite. I made a funny note
aboutdo you have five hours for me to explain this process to you.
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
PARTICIPANT #15: In my Heritage Profile, my profile identifies me as someone who is
very naturally designed to do what I do. When I came here and learned what I learned,
looking back, by insight, I pretty much have always coached people. I just didnt call it
that. And I didnt know that that was what I was doing.
INTERVIEWER: So it sounds like youve tried to do some things before that youve
failed at that
PARTICIPANT #15: They werent failures, really. Part of my profile says Im an
Olympian which means that Im designed to get bored with a job and I have a learning
ability called, practitionerI learn boom, boom, boom.
INTERVIEWER: So you were doing well at the stuff but you just didnt like it too
much?
PARTICIPANT #15: Once I learned about a job, I would get bored and I would go find
a better job. This job was that. I was bored with my old job, my sister worked here as a
web designer, thought I was freaky like the other coaches, they interviewed me three
times, and hired me. One of the sad things I think about this company turning corporate
like they did was that when I came in, okay, Im a high school graduate, I had some
random computer classes, you know, just technology stuff, and they basically almost
hired me on the spot. If it were now
INTERVIEWER: You wouldnt have gotten hired?
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PARTICIPANT #15: I wouldnt have even gotten in the door.
INTERVIEWER: And youve been the most successful coach?
PARTICIPANT #15: This firm talks about the kinesthetic side of most people being
kinesthetic, meaning we learn by doing, and they say it is the most underused ability in
all the profiles; because if you think about watching the reference to if you want to swim
you cant watch a video of people swimming and then go jump in the pool and learn how
to swim. You have to actually get in the pool and go practice; so, you know, I just dove
in, took the Heritage Profile stuff home, read it, studied it, applied it; it works. Hows
that?
INTERVIEWER: So you have a system that you teach here at this company, but there is
a coaching process too.
PARTICIPANT #15: What do you mean, coaching process?
INTERVIEWER: Well, I dont care what I mean; what do you mean?
PARTICIPANT #15: Again, it goes back to meeting the clients where theyre at. The
Heritage tool identifies personality characteristics that are based off of behavioral science
which is a genetic thing. Its not a learned behavior. So when I have a client who is
highly sensitive, highly relational, and maybe has integrity, and theyve been walking
around their whole life feeling beat up by their parents, friends, teachers, and institutions,
and they get on the phone with me and within three coaching sessions Ive acknowledge
who they are, explained to them why they felt like it, it removes barriers to help them feel
connected to me and like I get them, which allows me to really go in and look at their
business and go, Okay, you trust me now. Im going to ask you to do some things that
may not make sense, but I need you to trust me because Ive built this little establishment
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here and I need you to go do this. So it allows you to bond with the client quicker
because its notthe profile is not all that complicated. The boss wrote it so that it
would be easy for a lay person to understand. Were not dealing with an A type B
personality, were talking about, you know, my number one attribute is coach. And what
a coach does is they draw out the peoples potential in places, people, things, whatever. I
dont see negativity. I see the positive. And if you can draw that out of a person, then
youre winning.
INTERVIEWER: So when I go to these events, you hear these anecdotes about different
clients that the boss has had, you know, over the years. Do you have any stories about
coaching that you tell like family and friends when they go, Wow, youre a coach! Do
you coach football? What do you coach? Tell me a story about a client.
PARTICIPANT #15: One of my favorite things, especially this year, is budgeting.
When I came here, I had no clue what a budget was, did not have my finances managed,
and was in financial duress, just like most of our clients are when they come on board
with us. Im very creative in my profile, thats the part where you see me more hippyish
and free-spirited. Its come more from a creative aspect. I tried to my own system that I
thought would work better than the way the boss had laid it out because his seemed so
stark and so boring; after two years of running my head into the wall, my way not
working, I finally succumbed, drank the kool-aid and plugged in the way they taught to
do budgeting. Okay, over three years, I paid off all my debt. I got my systems in place
and, like the boss talks about, I dont think about money. That frees me up to goI have
clients in the last six months that have been with me for over eight years that have put a
total X in the box. I dont want to talk to you about budgeting, I dont want to hear about
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budgeting. Its just like its so embarrassing for them that because of the economy being
like it is, I have taken at least six of my clients, so these are the stories I take home with
mepeople who would refuse to budget, wouldnt even touch it, that have allowed me to
walk them through it, step-by-step-by-step and slowly
INTERVIEWER: Because theyre in crisis mode?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. Because theyre in crisis mode and now, you know, one of
them in particular that I love, I mean she and her husband have never talked about
budgeting. Theyve been married 17 years.
INTERVIEWER: So this downturn at the end of it might turn into a positive thing for
them because theyre going to keep carrying that budgeting skill even after their numbers
come back.
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. And I know how shes wired. Shes like me in the sense that
once she gets something, once she owns it, she will never go back there again. And thats
like giving people back to themselves.
INTERVIEWER: So other than these things that weve already talked about, is there
something youve done as a coach that really works well?
PARTICIPANT #15: I send out a daily motivation to all my clients, Monday through
Friday. I work the system that we teach. When I travel and Im in the area of a client
like we drove up to Washington State last year, I went to my database and looked at who
was closest to the freeway and on the trip up, met people for breakfast, lunch, dinner,
wherever it was, doing the pop eyes and its funny, Ive had feedback from other coaches
that it irritates them that I do that because then they go to their small groups and they go,
Oh, my coach came and took me to lunch. And theyre like, Oh, my coach never did
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that for me. Well thats what we teach and to me Ive got this congruency issue with
myself that I like to do what we teach because I know it works, but it creates animosity
here because not everybody else is so over the top. So to me, working the system that we
teach, sending out the notes, doing the check-in calls, you have to let them know that you
really do care. And I do really care. But you cant just say you care and not follow
through with activity.
INTERVIEWER: So have you tried something other than the things you talked about
that didnt work well, is there something else youve done that didnt work well for
coaching/
PARTICIPANT #15: Something I did that didnt work well? Let me think. I had a train
wreck somewhere.
INTERVIEWER: Like when you first started, there was a train wreck.
PARTICIPANT #15: You know, actually, because we had so little systems in place
when we started, I got hired like on September 5th; there was no structured training and I
think, on September 8th, I got my first client. The only exposure that I had to what the
boss did was like tapes of the Turning Point Retreat.
INTERVIEWER: So you watched those for three days and then youre in the deep end
of the pool?
PARTICIPANT #15: I listened in them to my car on my moving down here, trying to go,
What the hell did I just sign up for? They gave me a new client because, I mean when
they hired me they were on the upswing and they had no more coaches and they were
having clients just barreling in. And so, okay, Jewels, heres a client, go play with her,
and because I had nothing else to do other than read the books that they wanted me to
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read, listen to the tapes, I called this woman probably five times a week and the bad thing
is that as I was getting up to speed as to what my role was, this woman was used to
talking to me four and five times a week when really coaching is about every two weeks
for about 30 minutes. So as my database grew and I could no longer sustain talking to
her five days a week, there was a sense of loss on her end; so I over-delivered in the
beginning
INTERVIEWER: Did you end up losing her in the end?
PARTICIPANT #15: She actually stayed in for two years, which I thought was a miracle
in itself. I probably wouldnt have.
INTERVIEWER: Well, its pretty good, you know, just getting started.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any formal coach training; some people have like coach
certifications or
PARTICIPANT #15: Outside of what this company teaches? No.
INTERVIEWER: No?
PARTICIPANT #15: Just life experiences.
INTERVIEWER: And then you have like a natural tendency. So you dont have
anything less formal than like a certification?
PARTICIPANT #15: Nothing.
INTERVIEWER: Have you been on sports teams or anything like that?
PARTICIPANT #15: You know, I tried sports a couple of times and I just wasnt that
into it. I think Im more competitive with people.
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INTERVIEWER: So you havent had like an art coach or a music coach or a tennis
coach, or anything like that?
PARTICIPANT #15: No. The bad thing is when you are a natural coach and Im a
natural trusted advisor, Im really good at telling people what to do, Im not really good
at having people tell me what to do. So its kind of like, you know, if youre a doctor,
you know, youre going to be in the emergency room doing heart surgery, youre not
necessarily going to be hanging out with more doctors. So because I am how I am, Im
drawn to people who need me.
INTERVIEWER: Im not going to be that kind of doctor.
PARTICIPANT #15: But Im just saying, you know the old statement, when the student
is ready the teacher will appear; Im a natural teacher so people gravitate towards me
because Ive always got an answer for something.
INTERVIEWER: So you talked about how youve had a lot of training here. Can you
give me an example of how you are able to apply that training on the job?
PARTICIPANT #15: Well, I think for me, part of the better training that Ive received is,
the boss talks about people going to three events a year, three Turning Points and getting
their Master Mind and thats what we tell their clients; we did this big old statistical
survey and the most successful clients are the ones who go to three Turning Points and to
Master Mind. So years ago, I thought, well if we taught our clients to do that, maybe I
should do that. So thats what Ive always done. I find sometimes the problem with
formalized training, being trained right now for mentor school, I already know this
system. You know, this system works if youre a real estate agent, it works if youre a
dentist, it works if youre a contractor. We now are being trained to be certified mentor
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coaches. I have my mentor certification from 2005. I sit in training and Im just like
wondering if I could get away with writing some personal notes, because I already know
the information. Because thats my learn style; when I get something I go as deep as I
can, so sometimes its challenging. For me, ongoing training is more getting out to an
event and seeing what the boss is doing on stage, because whatever he did on stage last
week may not be the same thing he does next week. Its interacting with the clients to
find out what their experiences are, how they feel, because you cant use your own
judgment on how they feel. You have to get out there and be with them to experience
that. And then, constantly listening to business stuff in my car, conference calls, audio
books, I mean, you know Im out working in the garden and Ive got the boss Heritage
Profile on a CD player, you know going over all the different attributes. Because I try to
keep my focus narrowed in to the things that are relevant to my job as opposed to, I mean
I dont really do any pleasurable reading for the most part because Im constantly
looking to improve myself so I can improve my clients and my coaching.
INTERVIEWER: So as Ive read up on this, just coaching literature, not coaching
literature from here but out in the, the topic of goal-setting comes up a lot in that
literature. Do you have your clients set goals?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. Not having goals is not an option.
INTERVIEWER: And you have them write the goals down? They put them in the
tracker or
PARTICIPANT #15: Some of them like to write them down, but I try to have them keep
them on the tracker even though they may not go there super often; just because it helps
me to
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INTERVIEWER: Some of your clients, you cant get them to use the tracker?
PARTICIPANT #15: Oh no, they have to use the tracker. I wont coach them if they
dont.
INTERVIEWER: So youve got 100% of them using the tracker?
INTERVIEWER: But theyre not all writing the goals into the tracker?
PARTICIPANT #15: No. What happens is like you have partnerships that share a
database; so if I have someone thats not tracking its because its a partnership that all
the
INTERVIEWER: So one of them is tracking and the other one isnt?
PARTICIPANT #15: But then the other one that is not tracking the business stuff, they
still go in and put their Five-Circle goals in there because when youre dealing with an X
amount of volume of people, you have to make sure that each person is
INTERVIEWER: So you differentiate between the Five-Circle goals and the goals like,
notes, calls, the proactive goals?
PARTICIPANT #15: Right. Well, I mean, in the Five-Circle goal section there are
business goals and it might say in there, you know, maintain my standard of X amount of
notes, calls and pop eyes per week or month; however theyre wired. In the proactive
section theyre going to have those numbers entered there. They can actually keep that
managed there, but I can also go, you know, over here in the Five-Circle area you said
this was your standard, but based where the numbers are actually being tracked, youre
like 40% below.
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INTERVIEWER: So in the Five-Circle goal, it sounds like youre getting pretty specific
about five notes, calls, and pop eyes, instead of something like, I want to make a million
dollars this year.
PARTICIPANT #15: No. Theyll put that in there too. But then you have to, as a coach,
be able to go in, analyze what it is that they want, break it down to you know, whats
your average sales price, what do you normally close transactionally on an annual basis,
and then we have like these nifty little tools here, calculators, where I can plug in their
average sales price, how many transactions it would take to meet that goal, what their
expenses are, and it gives me a summary of how much business they have to do. Once I
know how much business they have to do, I have a general idea of how much activity is
needed in order to achieve that volume of business. Sometimes when you break
something down that nitty gritty, some of the clients are like, okay, maybe I dont really
want to make $200,000.00 this year, maybe $100,000.00 is fine. It just depends again on
their people fuel, on their personality.
INTERVIEWER: Once they figure out thats 100 notes, calls, and pop eyes every week,
theres like no way theyre going to do it.
PARTICIPANT #15: Yeah, and that happens all the time. Thats why you have to go in
and evaluate at least once every six months if not once a quarter. Because people set
goals. Heres a perfect example; as an anesthetic person and we attract a lot of aesthetic
people to our business, thats the communication style, thats the worm in fuzzy mushy
gushy; we tend to not focus in on money
INTERVIEWER: But that might be the style of someone whos attracted to real estate.
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PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. It is the style. Because we actually have a Heritage Profile
on realtors, on the real estate industry and it is an aesthetic business. So when I came to
WCC, I wanted to go listen to who the best coaches were because I wanted to be the best
coach. So Im serving, Im inventorying what the common threads were with them. I
was listening to their different styles, their delivery, how they coached, because that is
part of your training, is to listen to other coaches. So I grabbed little pieces, I like that, I
liked that, but I also recognized, besides the fact that most of them were competitive by
nature, that they all seemed to coach between 90 and 110 clients. So, aesthetically, I take
that piece in there, factor it into my goals, so one of my first goals is, in order for me to
be a good coach, and again this is thinking aesthetically, not necessarily logically, based
on those guys who are the best Im going to have to get up between 90 and 100. So Im
working towards that goal.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever write the goals in for the client or type the number in?
PARTICIPANT #15: You know, the only time I really will write their goals in is like
maybe on a first call when Im teaching someone how to work inside the web site
because they dont know
INTERVIEWER: So you use these calculators to help them figure out what the goal
should be if they want to make that much money?
PARTICIPANT #15: Right, and I just tell them the number and let them do it.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
PARTICIPANT #15: Wait, I have to finish my sentence.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
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PARTICIPANT #15: When I got up to about 86 clients, I was going home and throwing
up. Now Im competitive by nature and I want to hit my goal. I didnt realize that I
wasnt designed to work with that many people. This is what I use as an analogy with
clients because you set a goal because it sounds good, aesthetically that sounds like a
good goal. You know, $200,000.00 sounds like a good number. Getting up there to that
work level, going home at 7 oclock at night doesnt feel good. It doesnt leave room for
a well-balanced life so you do have to learn that it isnt always about that destination. Its
about going there and the journey, knowing that you are going to have to make midcourse corrections.
INTERVIEWER: So youve been able to use your own personal experience and relate
that to the
INTERVIEWER: So what we have here in this company is a situation they call distancelearning. You meet your clients for lunch and stuff like that; how is that different when
youre face-to-face with then than when youre on the phone?
PARTICIPANT #15: On the phone, I have all my systems that I need. I have my notes
from my last coaching call in front of me. Ive got the Heritage Profile pulled up in front
of me. Ive usually got their lead generation tracker pulled up. Theres a tattle tale
button on the lead generation tracker that you hit coaches view and it tells me the last
time they logged in their activities in their business, which is kind of fun because Im
like, Nice one, you didnt get your stuff updated. And theyre like, Im doing it right
now! But it really helps me to pay attention.
INTERVIEWER: So youre able to use these Internet tools and all that stuff where
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INTERVIEWER: Where its more touchy feely.
PARTICIPANT #15: Yeah. When Im with them its kind of a little more off the hip,
just a little more being in the moment. I probably have 70% of my database that has been
with me since I started. So Ive watched these people date, get married, and have kids;
theyve been with me for so long that having lunch isnt really having a coaching session.
Its just a little off the hip and if they touch on something that theyve been dealing with
emotionally, I can remember that. I may not give them five specific action steps at
lunchtime. Its more of a time to nurture the relationship.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think theres something that suffers because youre not in the
room with them?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yeah, some clients I think would like more face-to-face interaction
which I think by design, you know the boss has master minds so that they come, meet
your coach which I dont like because I dont like being surrounded by people. It shuts
me down. But its also why I do the Turning Points and I go to different ones because it
takes that massive group of people I have
INTERVIEWER: It lets you ease into the master mind
PARTICIPANT #15: You know, five of them here, ten of them there, and then Ive got
them all pretty much trained to say, You guys know that Im a pretty private person.
You know I dont like the meet your coach thing. Ill do lunch with you. I mean I
literally set up groups, breakfast this day and lunch this day. I will break them into
groups and then on the last night Ill plan an appreciation mixer where we just all go hang
out.
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INTERVIEWER: But you have to work up to that?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. And then I take four days off and just veg in my garden
because Im done.
INTERVIEWER: Can you visualize something that would be better if they were coming
in here to see you?
PARTICIPANT #15: No. I think that would end up feeling more like therapist-like
where I think having the distanceI think one of the reasons why distance coaching
works is because they cant see their own stuff because theyre in it. You know, theyve
got their family. Theyve got their business there. All the things that affect them and
cause them
INTERVIEWER: Youre not the first person to say that today.
PARTICIPANT #15: So Im standing back here and Ive like got this big picture. Im
going, Okay, your business is falling apart. Your marriage is falling apart. You have
nothing in your spiritual goals, and youre complaining about a transaction thats falling
apart when youre not even making an effort. And they are like, Really, am I doing
that? Or the opposite; you know, I had a call with a lady today and shes complaining
that her business is just not doing for her what it did last year, and I said, Really? Do
you realize that last year at the same time, again, using the tracking tools, your average
sales price was like $475,000.00 and you had closed four transactions. And right now
youre at $630,000.00 and youve closed eight transactions and youve made three times
more. Why are you complaining? They get so caught up in their minutia that they dont
even stop to look at the reality. Again, it goes back to that they work and operate too
much off the feeling thing, which are the people that we attract here.
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INTERVIEWER: So what did you write down for Item C there? Are there special
techniques that you use for coaching over the phone?
PARTICIPANT #15: Let me see.
INTERVIEWER: Its the very last one before what is typical coaching?
PARTICIPANT #15: I use the tracking tools a lot in my e-mails.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, Im just going to skip that question because youve already
answered it
PARTICIPANT #15: As a weapon, as a weapon. When I have someone like the client
this morning complainingand this is an ongoing pretty common thing with someone
complaining about where they are at. They havent taken the time to go, and we have
some fabulous
INTERVIEWER: And you check to see when was the last time that
PARTICIPANT #15: Right. Well most of them do pretty good because Im pretty rigid
about, you know
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I made the graphs.
PARTICIPANT #15: Okay. That is my favorite tool. I literally will go in there and do a
copy and paste so the person whos complaining via e-mail that their business sucks, and
then I go take those little pointer tools; you know you can click on a pointer and I make it
big and red and I write, Yeah, it really looks like youre losing, doesnt it? You know,
because it shows the numbers from the year before and the progressive response charts.
Im like, Gee, my business sucks. Well hello, for the last six months your butt has
been sitting at home eating bon bons and now you want to be sad because your business
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sucks. I mean, I really use it as an accountability tool, but it is my favorite section; Sir
you are caught!
INTERVIEWER: I know you have a script for the coaching call
PARTICIPANT #15: What do you mean, a script?
INTERVIEWER: Well, I mean it goes a certain way. Just about every coach has
described the same thing.
PARTICIPANT #15: I think the
INTERVIEWER: But yours is a little bit different.
PARTICIPANT #15: I think theres a flow. Are you talking for a first call or for
INTERVIEWER: Just a typical coaching call.
PARTICIPANT #15: I think for a typical coaching call you do have tothis is one of
the mistakes I learned
INTERVIEWER: Ill tell you what, walk me through a typical first call and then like a
typical call once youve had the client for awhile.
PARTICIPANT #15: Okay, so a typical first call and I think I mentioned this on the fly.
I have an initial call Word Document that over the years, I mean we were given
something little to start with when we came here when we didnt have the training
INTERVIEWER: And youve built on that?
PARTICIPANT #15: And Ive built on it based on my experience of what I need to
know going forward. One of the things the boss talked about at one of his meetings, the
only picture he has in his officehe doesnt have his family in there, he has this picture
like this big and its of Jody in one of their old buildings with some big giant black bags,
because shes a private person and they were doing construction and she couldnt deal
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with it, so she hung these big black bags, stuck them on the wall for privacy, which is
what I probably would have done. You learn over time, you put these little pieces
together, and I got the sheet going. I have to remember that this client today, five years
from now, might have a problem and maybe theyre really pissed off at the universe over
something. One of the questions that I have on my initial call document is, Why did you
get into coaching? What is it that you actually want out of coaching? So when I have
this client whos pissed off that they only made $80,000.00 this year and Im like, Well
you made $80,000.00 last year, and they say to me, Yeah, but I should be improving
that. I go, You know, last year, six years ago, five years ago, you were making
$30,000.00. You were working 70-hour weeks and you had no time with hour family.
You were borderline divorced. Now youre making $80,000.00, taking two days off a
week
INTERVIEWER: So then the typical middle coaching call.
PARTICIPANT #15: So you understand I use that initial call to take them back to why
they signed up?
INTERVIEWER: So you write that stuff down and then five years into the client youre
going back to look at that stuff you wrote down.
PARTICIPANT #15: Because they need to see their progress. And then later on down
the road, on regular coaching calls, the biggest thing Ive learned is to never jump into a
coaching call with an agenda, because you dont know what has happened from this day
to two weeks later. They could have had a kid get hurt. They could have had a parent
have a stroke and have been so busy they didnt have time to call and tell you. So I
always start my calls with checking in and inquiring about whats been happening in their
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world today. Has anything traumatic happened since we talked last? But a lot of my
clients do keep e-mail contact with me in between; so Im usually not so separated from
them. But once I kind of get their little current last two weeks state of the union, I ask
them how they did on their action steps before, check off the ones that they got done, I
copy and paste the ones they didnt get done as their first marching orders for the next
two weeks, if theyre applicable. You know, sometimes they get changed. Then I figure
out what they need to be working on after that. And while Im talking to them, never is
there a time that Im not pointing out to them what could have gotten them out of whack,
for example something in their profile, i.e., so youre a commander, conqueror, perpetual,
really wanted to close the deal, and thats why you stayed at the office until 2 oclock in
the morning and you missed your coaching appointment because you slept in. I try to
take them back to who they are and help them understand what gets them off track, so
that
INTERVIEWER: And is there a way that you typically wrap up the call?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes. Im three minutes late for my next coaching call. Ill talk to
you in two weeks. Bye now.
INTERVIEWER: But besides that, is there something that you do with them at the end?
PARTICIPANT #15: I make sure that they have a clear understanding of what theyre
working on.
INTERVIEWER: Their action steps?
PARTICIPANT #15: Yes, their action steps.
INTERVIEWER: And is there a typical number for that? Is there a minimum of one?
PARTICIPANT #15: Theres a minimum of one but it does vary per personality.
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INTERVIEWER: Is there an average?
PARTICIPANT #15: It just depends. If youre dealing with say a competitive person,
you always give them more than what you think that they can do because they love the
challenge. If someone said, Jules, we want to know if you can make one check-in call
between now and two weeks from now. Id be like, Give me a break. Do you think
you could do 50? Well, hell I dont know, but Ill go try. I know that about the
competitors because Im competitive, so I give them more than what they can do with my
non-competitive, more meticulous
INTERVIEWER: Is there a max though of the action items, a typical maximum that you
give out?
PARTICIPANT #15: I would imagine Id never give a client more than like five things
to work on, you know. But right now with the blitz, the boss has their marching orders
which I love because it frees me up to work on their other circles. Its like right now the
boss is being their coach indirectly, and now we get to work on other stuff, which is cool.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well thats pretty much all I need.
PARTICIPANT #15: Excellent.
PARTICIPANT #16
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition, not the company definition but your
definition, of coaching?
PARTICIPANT #16: My definition of coaching is coming alongside people and leading
them to fulfilling their potential, in whatever area that is. When Im coaching soccer
thats what thats about.
INTERVIEWER: So you do you coach soccer?
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INTERVIEWER: Thats great.
PARTICIPANT #16: When Im coaching in business then its about reaching whatever
level of success that for them is defined as success.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have any experience teaching? Were you ever a teacher?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well not in like an educational institution but I run and
administrate my church. I teach adult Sunday school. So yeah, Ive had platform
speaking
INTERVIEWER: So how is that different than coaching?
PARTICIPANT #16: Actually, I have to define this a lot for coaching clients because
they will get the teacher/student relationship confused with a coach/coachee relationship
and the example I usually give them is, when youre a teacher, I stand in front of you. I
give you information, whether you choose to act on it and implement it, thats a different
issue. This is more like, though not exactly the same, if you take a professional athlete,
they dont go out on the field and then go back to the coach and say, Okay, tell me what
to do next? They come back and they give their feedback on where theyre having their
struggles, what do they think are their deficits, and then in combination with that
feedback and the coach as a third party looking at the situation, hearing what it is they
want to achieve, and based on their experience saying, Well you also need to look at this
and this and this. So its the two of them coming alongside each other, working
together, synergizing to get to an end results. Also with a teacher, its in their head what
the standard is.
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INTERVIEWER: So when youre doing the Sunday school teaching, do you find
yourself coaching in the class at all?
PARTICIPANT #16: Not necessarily coaching in the class. Its everything that happens
after the class, when they come back
INTERVIEWER: But in the class, its pedagogic, you want to let them know what the
first five words in Genesis is.
PARTICIPANT #16: Normally, what I teach on is, I lead a financial ministry at our
church, so that means that Im helping educate people on what the Word of God says
about money and possessions and how our heart and mind ought to be towards that. So
of course there is tons of opportunity to coach there because then they come after with
their struggles, their hardships, and how to get around
INTERVIEWER: So during the course of the class youre teaching its
PARTICIPANT #16: Its instructional
INTERVIEWER: Its know this, know that, know the other and then after the class
youre a little more one-on-one and it turns into more of a coaching thing.
PARTICIPANT #16: Sure.
INTERVIEWER: Right now in this company theyve kind of defined your job as a
business coach. So I dont want their definition of what business coaching is, but what
your definition of it is.
PARTICIPANT #16: Well, Ill go right back to what Ive been saying. Its about me
coming alongside them based on my experience, my knowledge, helping them to see
where the weaknesses are and how theyre approaching the market place, how theyre
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approaching their clients in particular, how theyre approaching logistics that are on the
backside of running a business like this.
INTERVIEWER: Is it realtors that you coach mostly, finance people?
PARTICIPANT #16: Ive had a bunch of different people; Ive got a finance guy, Ive
got insurance guys, Ive got realtors, lenders, I had a gentleman who owned an auto body
repair shop.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have some business experience in work?
PARTICIPANT #16: Yeah. I have an active brokers license in California, so Ive been
out doing it. I was a Club Met member here, a coachee at one point; prior to that I owned
my own management consultant firm so I was working primarily with Fortune 100/500
and a lot of state organizations of that size to implement management processes and
systems into their businesses.
INTERVIEWER: So the business aspect of business coaching youd say that relates to
your experience a lot more thanif I was to say, Tell me about coaching. Youd be
more talking about walking alongside of them and letting them see what their potential is,
but when you talk about business coaching, youre relating things about your personal
experience.
PARTICIPANT #16: Well with coaching, the thing is that even though there is a
difference in the posture between the numbers involved, between a teaching relationship
and a coaching relationship, there are interchangeably in both of those relationships
opportunities to coach when youre a teacher and opportunities to teach when youre a
coach. So, because some of my clients have no, when it comes to budgeting, some of
them have never done that; their parents didnt do it, and they have no idea. Well theres
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going to be some instruction, some teaching. But I cannot, Im expecting them to have
invested in it. The coachee/coaching relationship means that the person is committing
when they started to taking some kind of action. Its not academic. And as far as what
my past experience is, I have a lot of sales experience and a lot of marketing experience.
So I tell my clients that my title here is as a business coach but I see myself as a business
and sales coach because thats where their real weakness most of the time is, is in closing
a client and that kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: So do you want to elaborate anymore on some preparation that you
had before you got this job?
PARTICIPANT #16: Other than actually being a broker myself and running my own
business?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Weve already talked about that stuff.
PARTICIPANT #16: Sure. I have a degree in business management and, other than that,
the leadership and coaching that I provided for my troops while I was in the Marine
Corps.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you have a military background too?
INTERVIEWER: So now I know about the system they have here for the business stuff,
but I want to know about what you think the coaching process involves. And it doesnt
have to be like the 30-minute coaching process; it could be over the course of months or
whatever you feel like talking about.
PARTICIPANT #16: Well no matter what youre going to be coaching them on, whether
Im coaching people at church on finances or Im coaching them here on their business,
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here a lot of times it bleeds into coaching them on any other circle of their life, you know,
whether that be their keeping in shape and staying
INTERVIEWER: So it could be on personal stuff?
PARTICIPANT #16: It could be a lot of things. So thats one of the reasons I enjoy
coaching here, is that we take all of that into consideration. As far as the process goes,
there has to be a building of rapport and trust between the coach and the coachee. There
has to be discovery, because a coach cant really speak until they hear what is needed,
whether it was asked for or its our own observation that they arent seeing they need this
but they do. Theres going to be instruction and theres going to be direction at times.
Sometimes I just have to straight out tell a client, this is what youre going to go do if
what you want is X. But I cant do that until Ive done those other things, until Ive built
some rapport, until Ive done the discovery to figure out what it is their needs are. And
then its just a matter of being consistent and holding them accountable to what they said
that they wanted to accomplish.
INTERVIEWER: So when Im at the events, the boss usually has some anecdotes. You
know, he has the story about the little old lady in Coronado with the million dollar house.
Do you have any stories like that from your experience? Youve been here about two
years now, right?
PARTICIPANT #16: Ive been coaching here for just over a year. Ive been involved
with the company in one degree or another since 2004.
INTERVIEWER: But like, tell me some stories about, even your sports coaching, or you
probably have some kind of fishing story about coaching, some certain client, something
they did.
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PARTICIPANT #16: Something good?
INTERVIEWER: Funny, good, or something you learned from, a failure even, on your
part.
PARTICIPANT #16: Wow. I didnt even think about coming in here with anything like
that. I mean, stories come up constantly but I cant think of anything thats on par with
the boss stories.
INTERVIEWER: Im just looking for you to teach me something about coaching, but
anecdotally.
PARTICIPANT #16: I got you. I hadnt even thought about that.
INTERVIEWER: Do you want to come back to that?
PARTICIPANT #16: Yeah, lets come back to it.
INTERVIEWER: So can you tell me about some things youve done as a coach that
work well? Weve talked about a few things.
PARTICIPANT #16: Sure. Something that I know I bring to my clients and gift my
clients with is a willingness to push them past what they are saying. Heres what I tell
them, Im not everybodys cup of tea.
INTERVIEWER: So youre pushing their envelope on what they think they can do?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well I know that Im seen around here or my brand around here is
that I am a tough coach and that Im focused on business. And I tell my clients my bank
account for excuses is really low. Well you came here because you wanted to be better
when you left and were not going to sit here and talk about
INTERVIEWER: Start talking about excuses and you say, Lets change the subject.
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PARTICIPANT #16: Sometimes what I tell them is that theyre going to come to the call
with one of two things why they didnt do what they said they were going to do. Its
either theyre going to be reasons or theyre going to be excuses. Reasons I love because
its an opportunity for us to come up with a method, a script, a dialogue, a system, a
strategy, something to get over, under, or around that challenge. An excuse, thats just
generally a story they told them and theyre hoping Im going to buy, and my bank
account is low.
INTERVIEWER: Have you done something that didnt work well, like when you first
started?
PARTICIPANT #16: You know, one of the biggest challenges, and this is going to be
specific to the company, is not understanding well enough and its an ongoing thing,
individual Heritage Profiles and taking that into consideration, realizing
INTERVIEWER: So youd like to know more about the Heritage Profile than you know
now?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well, as far as Im concerned, and I believed this before I was a
coach here and was a member, the Heritage Profile is the silver bullet for people getting
over themselves.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have, weve talked about some of this stuff, but have you
had some formal education in coaching, did you ever go to school to learn how to be a
soccer coach or anything like that?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well, there are courses you have to take for certification and I have
another one coming up at the end of this month so that I can coach at a competitive level.
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So, yes, Ive gone to that but its primarily around how you train kids and get them to
move.
INTERVIEWER: You have a certification in sports coaching?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well in order to coach youth soccer you have to have a, I dont
think they call it certification; but there are classes you have to take and I forget what
they call it. What Im getting next is a certification because you cant coach at a
competitive level without what they call an E License and then you need a D License and
after that theres national licenses and so on,
INTERVIEWER: But these are specific to sports coaching?
PARTICIPANT #16: Specifically to soccer.
INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else we havent talked about, maybe less formal
training that youve had?
PARTICIPANT #16: No. Ive got lots of books on coaching and Ive educated myself
on a lot of those things.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have any examples, you get training here and youve had a
bunch of training on your own informally; can you give me an example of how that
helped you on this job?
PARTICIPANT #16: Yes. I think that if youve not educating yourself outside of here,
if all the training you got, which the training here is fantastic, but if all the training you
got was this, youre not bringing enough to the table, because they hear the boss say those
things over and over again. Then they get on the phone with a different coach and they
hear the same things over again. I find where Im most successful is that Im constantly
reading and constantly listening to CDs, bringing just a little twist to things, bringing a
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different dialogue. So, yes, I think you should be in a constant state of learning if youre
going to be doing this.
INTERVIEWER: So Ive read a lot about coaching since I started working on this
project and goal-setting is a common theme. Do you use goal-setting.
PARTICIPANT #16: Oh, absolutely, you cant do anything in life without setting some
goals.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have trouble getting your clients to set their goals?
PARTICIPANT #16: Its not so much you have trouble with getting them to set goals,
they all know that they need to create goals; what you typically have a problem with is
getting clients to think about and commit to what they want, not what they think they can
get, because theyre self-limiting beliefs are going to tell them, Yeah, Id really like to
do X, or have a business of this size, or two assistants.
INTERVIEWER: So you find that they set the goal too low or too high?
PARTICIPANT #16: It will be different in different areas of their life. Usually, they will
set their financial goals too high and every other goal too low. And then there are some
people who are just built in such a way that they set all their goals too high. And there
are some who will never set a goal beyond what theyve already done.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever set the goals for the client?
PARTICIPANT #16: No. One of the things we use in doing goals, and youve probably
heard of this, is putting it through a smart filter, asking on every goal, is it smart as an
acronym, is it specific, is it measurable, is it attainable? The company teaches that it
should be realistic. If you go online and Google Smart Goals, youll come up with a
whole bunch of different words. The word that I used before I came here and what I
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teach my clients is relevant and time-based. The reason I prefer relevant over realistic is
that realistic and attainable to me are too much the same. And secondly, relevancy has a
couple of aspects to it, i.e., Is this my goal? Is it relevant to me or is this something my
parents wanted for me, my broker wants for me, my coach wants for me, my wife wants
for me, or is this my goal? Because if its not, it wont drive them, and theyll just be
frustrated that theyre not accomplishing it; but they dont really desire it. The other part
of relevancy is, what does this goal look like next to all of my other goals? So if Ive got
a business, a family, Ive got young kids, Im coaching soccer, and I want to write a
book; well its not a relevant goal if I say I want to have a book published in the next 12
months. But if I say I want to move that out to the next five years, that goal may then be
relevant.
INTERVIEWER: So you have clients that some of them have more talent or less talent
with goal-setting. So these ones that are real talented at setting goals, do you see that
their sales figures reflect that theyre pretty good at setting goals? If they have smart
goals, do you see big numbers out of them?
PARTICIPANT #16: Its not especially that you see big numbers because not everybody
is built for big numbers nor do they desire big numbers; but you will see consistently
more often people are hitting their targets when they have set a written goal with an
action plan.
INTERVIEWER: And maybe upward trends or something?
PARTICIPANT #16: Exactly. Thats the other thing when youre a coach that you have
to be careful of is projecting on those people what you would want in their situation and
being happy that they say, You know what, James, I would consider it a success if I sell
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ten houses this year. Well I have other clients Ive been on the phone with just today
that they want to sell 100 homes next year. Well, the guy who wants to sell 100 homes
may look at the ten homes and go, Hes not successful. However, what that guy
doesnt know is that hes only going to sell ten homes because he wants to coach his kids,
he wants to be there for all their events, hes going to make good money and have a good
life.
INTERVIEWER: So what if you got a guy who just wont put the goals down? Do you
see that coaching doesnt work that good for them?
PARTICIPANT #16: Its not a matter that the coaching doesnt work so well; what
happens is that they dont get where they want to go. But thats the thing, weve got to
look at the purpose of coaching. Its to help them fulfill their potential; not for them to
hit a specific thing. We dont bring people here to say, Well youre coming into
coaching so that you can sell 100 houses. Some of these people, the only reason that
they can stay in business is because they have a coach.
INTERVIEWER: So you do teaching at the church. Do you ever use some teaching
techniques here in the coaching job?
PARTICIPANT #16: Oh absolutely. And I use
INTERVIEWER: So tell me a little bit about that.
PARTICIPANT #16: Well, the bottom line is that I can sometimes see what is best for a
client and they dont see it or they wont take ownership of it. Its in that process of
teaching, for instance, tracking numbers, thats one of the biggest problems for most
businesses and I can say that for Fortune 100 companies all the way down to the
individual and an entrepreneur. Where teaching oftentimes comes in is me explaining
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that, look, they think the reason they have to put numbers in our system is so that their
coach can see them. Theyll make comments like, Well, I didnt get them in there for
you. Well theyre not getting them in there for me. Theyre getting them in there for
them. Because theyre frustrated that they thought they were going to become a business
owner when they went into real estate and then what they find out is that theyre just a
slave to their job and it owns them. Its in knowing those numbers that allows them to be
able to look at the trends, do a trend analysis, well what direction are we headed in six
months? Where were headed, is that where I want to be? No. Well then we need to
make adjustments. Do a gap analysis, where are we now, where do we want to be, and
whats that hole in the middle? Well if they dont have numbers, then theyre going to be
in a place where they think theyre doing enough activity but the people theyre doing it
with are just not good clients. Well maybe and maybe not, often times when someone
comes and says that they arent doing all the activities they think they are and because
theyre not tracking them, they dont know. So what I just did there with you is exactly
what I would do with them. Im teaching them why the numbers are important so that I
can coach them through actually utilizing that tool.
INTERVIEWER: So what we have here, they describe it as a distance-learning
environment. You talked about how you do classroom teaching at the church and then
you do some one-on-one coaching after the class; so whats different about the distancelearning for you than the in-person stuff that you do?
PARTICIPANT #16: You know, the process of building rapport takes a little bit longer
because you cant be there. Most communication that happens is nonverbal so we lose
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out on a lot of that, although because of the direction that were headed now were going
to get some of the back.
INTERVIEWER: With the cameras?
PARTICIPANT #16: With the cameras and being able to have them see me and me see
them. Because sometimes you dont know, again this goes back to a profile. My profile
is one that Im a showman, so I want to hear and see feedback from people. Well
sometimes there are people on the other end of the phone who dont move as rapidly as I
do and it takes them longer to process. So I could misinterpret their slowness to answer
as them not getting what Im saying. Whereas if I can see you, I can assess that theyre
getting it, theyre just
INTERVIEWER: If theyre like writing something
PARTICIPANT #16: When theyre writing or whatever. Or I can see their face when
they look like, What the heck are you talking about? I know that versus on the phone I
see nothing. All I hear is a voice and if they say nothing, Im left guessing.
INTERVIEWER: So other than that, are there other things that suffer because youre at a
distance from these folks?
PARTICIPANT #16: I think one of the things that can happen is when you have to see
somebody face-to-face, theres a high level of accountability, because you know you
cant hide. When you are going to hear their voice, well I think there is a loss in
relationship and you have to work harder at getting rapport.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had them coming in here to your office, would you do
something differently?
PARTICIPANT #16: Different than what we do now?
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INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
PARTICIPANT #16: No, Id probably do it exactly the way I do it now but Id be able to
have the advantage of their body language and I think a deepening of the relationship.
INTERVIEWER: Is there any other technique that you use because its over the phone,
the Internet, or e-mail that you want to talk about?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well I think its important to be making calls outside of when your
normal coaching calls are, calling them just out of the blue, because that is
INTERVIEWER: And you wouldnt like do that if all your clients were right here; you
wouldnt just drop by their office?
PARTICIPANT #16: I wouldnt say that I wouldnt do it. But I think theres a
heightened need to do it because we are not local.
INTERVIEWER: And sometimes catch them when theyre off guard.
PARTICIPANT #16: But its not about catching them off guard; I stop by to see my
friends, I stop by and see my pastor, I stop by and see my neighbor. Its just indicative of
a deeper relationship. I dont stop by to see my doctor, only when I have an appointment
with him, so that stays a professional relationship rather than being more personal;
whereas when I call them just out of the blue, well thats something a friend does, not
something a vendor does.
INTERVIEWER: So the last question I
PARTICIPANT #16: And notes, I forgot about notes; that would be the other thing.
Making sure youre sending handwritten communication to them for deepening of the
relationship.
INTERVIEWER: And so, you might do that even if they were coming in.
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PARTICIPANT #16: Oh I would do that even if they were coming in. Im just
suggesting that its even more imperative when its distant because you dont have the
physicality of meeting together.
INTERVIEWER: So the last question is just walking me through, you know we know
what the schematic is for a typical coaching call, but when you do a coaching call, just
walk me through what thats like.
PARTICIPANT #16: The first thing that needs to be done is stating that you wanted to
check in and see how theyre doing. So typically what Ill say is, So whats been going
on with you since the last time we talked? Whats been going on in your world?
Whatever. Because I cant just dive right into the numbers and asking about your
business if it turns out that, you know, a half hour ago you found out that your aunt died.
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes when you ask that questions, theyre going to get into
some real personal stuff.
PARTICIPANT #16: When you came over and got me, that lady was bawling on the
other end because her husband had told her to leave a week ago, he came back down and
reconciled, she came back and took some tests and had busted her hip; that was in the
past and she was dealing with that already, and then she went in for some tests and found
out that her liver is not functioning properly. So we didnt talk very much about business
because theres no room for that.
INTERVIEWER: So the call went longer than it normally would have?
PARTICIPANT #16: Just a few minutes past. It was a 30-minute call but I think it went
35. But the bottom line is you end those calls asking, What can I do to support you so
we can keep something going in your business?
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INTERVIEWER: So you always get back to business even though its mainly a personal
call?
PARTICIPANT #16: Thats what they hired me for. Im not their counselor. Im not
their pastor, although sometimes it feels like that.
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes when you ask whats been going on, theyll jump right
into the business thing too.
PARTICIPANT #16: The first thing theyll say is I got three pop eyes done. I took
another listing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in the normal anatomy of a call, I want to
hear whats going on in their business and sometimes theyll say, Like what? Well,
what leads have you generated? Thats the main point. Leads are what feed a business.
INTERVIEWER: But thats not the question you ask first. You start with finding out
whats happened over the past couple of weeks.
PARTICIPANT #16: If its something other than business, theyre going to say
something then and then I can know. No-one wants to seem like an insensitive bastard,
really. Oh, your aunt died, but how many palm buys have you done? Youre not going
to do that. But I generally, even in those calls, guide them back around and use a phrase
or my script, if you will for that is, Hey, look I know that youve got a lot going on,
however, what can we do to keep one oar in the water? Because what can happen is this
emotional crisis can very easily turn into a business crisis which leads to a financial crisis
which is only going to magnify everything else. So what little bit can you do? Because
sometimes its that little bit that they do thats normal life that helps them get through the
trauma of whatever the other thing is.
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INTERVIEWER: Typically, the mom didnt die or whatever. So in a typical call when
you ask whats going on, they might give you a little chit chat about personal stuff or they
might go right into business. The middle of the call, whats that typically like?
PARTICIPANT #16: If we get to the place where they start talking about their business,
then the next question is, Okay, Im going to open up your lead generation tracker right
now. Are these things in here? No they arent. Or Yes they are. If theyre not my
clients all know were going to put them in there together, because thats how important
the numbers are. Theres nobody on my team who doesnt put their numbers in.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have them tell you the numbers and you type them in?
PARTICIPANT #16: No. They log them in. They type them in. Im looking at the
screen at the same time they are and Ill tell them to go ahead and put that in there. How
many of these did you do? Okay, great. Put that one in. But most of my clients are
conditioned not to come to the call without numbers because they dont want to waste the
30 minutes doing something so nominal. However, that has an enormous impact on their
success. So, generally, theyve already got their stuff in there and we look at them.
Maybe there is something Ill notice about what the numbers tell me
INTERVIEWER: A trend or something?
PARTICIPANT #16: Ill ask them a question or something around that. Its usually
around that time that I say, Before I get into something else, is there anything you came
to this call that you wanted to make sure we talk about, a struggle, a goal, a question you
had, a client is giving you a fit
INTERVIEWER: So towards the tail end of the middle of the call you might get into
some personal stuff there too?
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PARTICIPANT #16: Yeah, but mostly I direct them towards what is going on in their
business that theymaybe they need to know the anatomy of a pop eye or they even
have client who has been saying X, Y, and Z to them and they want to know how to deal
with that. Of theyve got a buyer whos sitting on the fence. They want to know what to
say to them to get them to move. Sometimes they have some burning thing they wanted
to go over and sometimes they dont. I dont ask that at the beginning of the call because
I dont want to get off on some crazy tangent and never get to their numbers. Because,
weirdly, people will try to take you off on a tangent because they dont want to talk about
their numbers because theyre not so good. But thats okay; I expect that theyre going to
do that. Thats why theyre paying me.
INTERVIEWER: Is there something typically that the call wraps up with?
PARTICIPANT #16: Yes. Its going to be that we have action items for the next call.
INTERVIEWER: And is there a minimum number on the action items?
PARTICIPANT #16: No. I know other coaches do this differently, but I tell all of my
clients on the initial call that I have and the first time we meet and then I reinforce it all
the time, I never assign action items. I hate it when clients say, I did my homework!
Partly I dont like it because it feeds into a teacher/student relationship which isnt what
we have. But also I dont want them feeling the reason theyre doing these things is
because some guy in Carlsbad told them they have to do this. So what I ask them is,
Okay, I have a couple of things down here that I think would be the best things for you
to do, but is there anything in particular that you want me to hold you accountable to
between now and the next call? Yeah, this, that, no and whatever. Sometimes what
theyll say is exactly what I wrote down. I like it better when they say it first because
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they have more buy-in that way, and then I say, You know, I think those are great ideas
and Ive got those down here. Such and such and such and such. There are two other
things, there is one other thing that I think is probably worth you taking a look at and Im
going to hold you accountable to if you sign up for that, and I want you to do this and
that. What do you think? Can you sign up for that or do you find value in that? Yeah,
I do. No, I dont. Usually they say, Yeah. Great, well then do you want me to
hold you accountable to that? Yeah. Okay then, youre going to do some pop eyes.
How many? Well, how many do you think? Well it isnt for me to decide what it is.
You tell me what you think you can do and Ill let you know whether I think thats going
to stretch you or not. Then they usually pick a number and I say, Okay. You want to
do five? Weve done five for the last five weeks. What if we bumped it up to seven?
How do you feel about that? Well I feel so overworked. Okay, great, well stick
with the five and revisit that again later. But ultimately they assign their action items
and theyre asking me to hold them accountable and I usually say it just like that. So
what Im hearing from you is that you want me to hold you accountable to do X, Y, and
Z? Yeah. That sounds good. You got that written down? As you know, I expect to
hear from you in between calls if there is anything I can do to help you move forward.
INTERVIEWER: So there is no minimum number on the action items?
INTERVIEWER: So they could have no action numbers?
PARTICIPANT #16: They could. But my clients dont. Because if they told me they
didnt want to do anything
INTERVIEWER: But they at least have one action item.
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PARTICIPANT #16: Right. If they told me they didnt want to do anything, Im going
to suggest something and they generally will agree. But the reason they didnt have
anything is that they didnt know what they should do.
INTERVIEWER: Is there a typical number of action items theyll have?
PARTICIPANT #16: A number of action items or a number of actual criteria to be held
accountable to?
INTERVIEWER: Well, youve got the goals, but the action items; how many of those?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well it depends. Generally its going to be two or three.
However, sometimes its more because two of the action items are
INTERVIEWER: Theyre ongoing?
PARTICIPANT #16: Literally, its a matter of, Okay, when you get off the phone,
youre going to call so and so and ask them if you can set up a lunch meeting. Well
thats not a significant task so maybe on that week I can have that one plus three, but you
cant do more than that or they dont get them done
INTERVIEWER: So you never do four or five?
PARTICIPANT #16: Once in awhile I do. It just depends on what they are.
INTERVIEWER: But that would be the high end?
PARTICIPANT #16: That would be a lot.
INTERVIEWER: So you want to go back to this one that we skipped about any kind of
anecdotal, little fishing story about some client or somebody that you coached financially
at the church?
PARTICIPANT #16: There is one person who comes to mind. Recently she decided that
she wanted to move from one-on-one coaching down to group coaching. Now she is
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somebody who shows up once in awhile, she constantly reschedules. She no-shows. She
is not committed to the process or committed to coaching. My evaluation is that she likes
being able to tell people she has a business coach. It feeds something in her to be able to
say thats how serious she takes her business. Of course, if they asked me and she
doesnt show up..
INTERVIEWER: Shes got half a business coach?
PARTICIPANT #16: So she decided to go down to group coaching and I encouraged her
in that. That was fine. I just want to see her move forward. So now my gut is shes
probably going to do it for two or three months and then shes going to bail on it like she
does on everything else. I think, in part, what she doesnt like about one-on-one coaching
is the accountability, because she isnt going to do what she needs to do. But shes still
going to bellyache about not having the results she wants. And the other thing is, what
was interesting though and why this is a story I would bother telling you is that before
she was going to sign up, she wanted to know who was going to be in her group, who
was going to be her coach, and what were they going to talk about. Theres no way I
could tell her in advance because part of the process is for her to fill out an analysis and
then well decide what group she belongs in.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about these groups. Whats a group? This is a Club Met
group?
PARTICIPANT #16: This is new. In the past, all we had was one-on-one coaching and
if you didnt want to be in one-on-one coaching, you went down to something that we
called referral systems member. It meant they had our products
INTERVIEWER: The tracking system?
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PARTICIPANT #16: They had the tracking system, they had access to listen to the boss,
but it was, hey, whatever you glean out of this, thats your deal. No accountability. Well
weve recently revamped our entire business model. Everybody is in a level of coaching
because we have these blitz initiatives that gives them direction where they didnt have it
before. It gives them a little bit of accountability where they didnt have it before. If
theyre just what we used to call a referral system member, now theyre a self-paced
coaching member. So they have direction, they have some accountability, but they dont
have the level that they would in group coaching.
INTERVIEWER: So is the coach actually talking to them?
PARTICIPANT #16: Not in that scenario. They have access to our coaching support
team to be able to give them direction along the way.
INTERVIEWER: So they hold them to setting goals?
PARTICIPANT #16: Well through the implementation of the three blitz initiatives we
have through the year, our client care representatives, they contact these people
sporadically. So its not a consistent every-other-week type thing like you get with group
or one-on-one.
INTERVIEWER: And the client care people, are they involved in that too?
PARTICIPANT #16: Thats whos involved with that, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: So theyre calling them and finding out how theyre doing?
PARTICIPANT #16: Yeah. Just checking in to see what can be done to support them in
the system, finding out if they have any questions, kind of filling them in instructionally.
What we have now is group coaching thats in the middle and that provided a middle
price point for those people who may be, because of where they are and where the market
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is right now, able to come up with $200.00 a month but not $400.00 a month. That allows
them in a group of 10 to 12 realtors that have similar production levels to get on a WebX,
so its like a Web NR type environment. Its also utilizing the phone where they can
interact. There will be a period of instruction with a certified coach like myself and then
we take one of them each week and they give their best practice on whatever the subject
is. Maybe that day we were giving instruction on how to do a pop eye
INTERVIEWER: So theyre all on a conference call, but youre coaching one of them
and theyre all hearing that person being coached?
PARTICIPANT #16: No. Were coaching all of them. That one person is going, for
awhile, to become basically the presenter and give what their best practice was, what
lesson they learned, what they think is maybe a story about an interaction they had with a
client that is helpful. Then we move from there and everybody gets an opportunity to
synergize, give their own ideas, and ask questions of each other, of the material or the
person who presented it, and then we move into having action items, and checking it, and
then doing kind of a roll call, okay, the last time we met these were the action items.
Tom, how did you do? What was maybe one of your obstacles or a victory that you got
out of that? Alright xxxxx, how about you, and so on? So there is a level of
accountability, not the same or as in-depth as one-on-one coaching because were not
looking at their specific numbers. Were going off of what they tell us. But, nonetheless,
its still a place where theyve got to check in. And the added thing is that through their
on-line community they are able to interact with each other in between calls. So there
INTERVIEWER: Theres some peer coaching going on?
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PARTICIPANT #16: Absolutely. And the host of the group, and we check in there from
time to time to make sure the threads arent going off in weird directions and that
whatever advice they are giving each other is the best advice.
INTERVIEWER: So there is a news group kind of set up on the web site?
PARTICIPANT #16: Basically, in the community area, that is specific to that group and
only the people that are members of it have access. So it provides a forum where they
can be more real and transparent, asking what they might be fearful is a stupid question
even.
INTERVIEWER: So its like their own personal blog area.
PARTICIPANT #16: Exactly. Thats what it comes down to. Its a strand of
communications.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, thank you.
PARTICIPANT #17
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching, not the company definition but
your definition of coaching?
PARTICIPANT #17: Coaching is to try to grow people and to bring the best out in them
and to move them forwards through all five circles and trying to get them outside the box
that they always go through. It seems like everybodys mind kind of goes the same kind
of a maze when they think about something, when they process they process it the same
way and its always to ask questions as to why and how and all the rest of that to get them
outside and to maybe pry and see it from a different way than whats holding them back
and dealing with some of that stuff.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you feel coaching is different than teaching?
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PARTICIPANT #17: To me, being a past teacher, was presenting material and trying to
get them to learn it but never the time to work with them individually on getting them
past their hang-ups unless they came in for special help.
INTERVIEWER: So you had some experience standing up in front of a classroom.
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. For about ten years.
INTERVIEWER: And did you ever use anything that you would consider a coaching
technique when you were in that position, in front of the whole classroom, more than one
person.
PARTICIPANT #17: I didnt know coaching at that time.
INTERVIEWER: Well, like you do the in-house training here and do you ever see them
say, Lets do this. And youre like, Oh wow, I used to do that when I was a teacher.
PARTICIPANT #17: Oh yeah. I think it was from Methods Class and how to present
materials and stuff in my undergraduate as well as masters and so forth that helped you
get ready for that.
INTERVIEWER: You have a masters in education?
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes, Bachelor of Science. But I did that for ten years.
INTERVIEWER: So you had something called Methods classes, teaching methods?
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. You had to go through Methods class before you go out and
do your student teaching where youre working underneath a teacher in the school and
you actually take over and teach there, for I forget how many months, before you pass
and then you get your degree and can go out and be hired yourself. You do have the oneon-one experience.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me more about these Methods classes?
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PARTICIPANT #17: Well it was on how to present material and how to pull your lesson
plans and everything together. The schools gave you a syllabus for the year which is the
big state plan of what youre supposed to teach and get across to everybody. And I dont
know what it is today, because that was back in 1969-1970s and so forth, and 80s. So
that may have changed by now, but they gave you the big headings and a big outline of
what they had to be able to grasp. And then you had to put those lesson plans together
with your materials and how you wanted to make that happen.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever have lesson plans for coaching clients?
PARTICIPANT #17: Pretty much a basic kind of an outline and also I kind of look at it
like, here are the no matter whats and here are the things that you have to be able to
do, the basics. And its trying to get them on target there and hold them there.
INTERVIEWER: When you were teaching, were you teaching adults or children?
PARTICIPANT #17: Both. Actually in high school, I taught grades 7 through 12, and it
was Home Economics, so youve got cooking and everything, life and everything in
there. But I also had evening classes with parents who wanted to learn how to can,
because it was a rural area of Panama, New York, so they were more farming and that
kind of thing. So the programs were different in that part of the country.
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever coached children here or anywhere?
PARTICIPANT #17: Not under 7th grade. No.
INTERVIEWER: I mean, Im considering those children when theyre in high school or
whatever, but Im saying as a coach, I know they had a program awhile back where they
were coaching children.
PARTICIPANT #17: I wasnt one of those.
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INTERVIEWER: You didnt coach children?
PARTICIPANT #17: No. I wasnt one of those.
INTERVIEWER: They started calling this business coaching that they do. They used to
call it executive coaching. Could you define what business coaching is for me?
PARTICIPANT #17: Business coaching to me is finding out what their goals are for
their business, learning what their business is all about, and its also taking a look at what
their job descriptions are in that business and then taking a look at where theyre trying to
get, where they are, and then working with them focusing on the main parts to make sure
that what theyre doing in a weeks time or two-weeks time, how much time is being
spent on activities to make them get to that point.
INTERVIEWER: So if we take the word business off of that, I dont see that being a
whole lot different than what you said.
PARTICIPANT #17: To me its not. Its where they want to go.
INTERVIEWER: If you were coaching tennis or whatever, it would be the same thing.
INTERVIEWER: What are your business goals, what are your tennis goals?
INTERVIEWER: So you use the same formula?
PARTICIPANT #17: Because, honestly, it cant be my agenda. It has to be their agenda.
I cant force them where to go or tell them where to go. I mean you can tell them when
theyre off. You know, all the activities if you realize here the last two weeks, it appears
that you spent 50% of your time actually not on activities and things to move you towards
this area where you wanted to go. So do you really want this? If you do, then what are
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you willing to change? But its giving more perspective I think as to what they say and
what theyre doing is sometimes two opposite things. And they have every excuse, well
it is an excuse, because
INTERVIEWER: But you help them realize that theyre not really working towards their
goals?
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. Youve been really busy. I understand that youve been
really busy. But it sounds like about 80% of that busy wasnt moving you to where you
say you want to go.
INTERVIEWER: You were reacting to things that werent helping you towards your
goals? Things like that.
PARTICIPANT #17: Correct. The immediate urgency got them in it, whatever.
INTERVIEWER: You have people get thrown off track by somebody coming to them
and saying, Hey, do you have a minute? And those minutes turn into hours.
PARTICIPANT #17: Pretty much.
INTERVIEWER: And thats what causes people to get off track? They get distracted a
lot?
PARTICIPANT #17: I think people want to be liked, they want to help others, and they
tend to deal with a lot of the lower level kind of things if you want to call it that. They
dont prioritize and in their calendar basically block out a period of time in order to get
their no matter whats that are going to move them to where they want to go. And they
will take the
INTERVIEWER: They prioritize the urgent stuff as opposed to the stuff thats moving
them towards their goal.
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PARTICIPANT #17: They dont block out a period of time where no-interruptions, Im
getting this done because this is going to move me towards my goal. So they dont
prioritize it very well. Whatever comes up, the immediate urgency takes first place
INTERVIEWER: So you mentioned that you had some experience in training as a
teacher. Did you have some other kind of preparation to be a business coach? Did you
ever work in real estate or lending?
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about that.
PARTICIPANT #17: Coaching, really and truly you coach pretty much from your
history, your experiences, your life experiences, life experiences and things that youve
had, and I find that having an educational background has been very beneficial. What I
find is I was in the right field to start with. It just was with the wrong people.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about the wrong people.
PARTICIPANT #17: The students pretty much sat there like bumps on a log. What are
you going to do for me today? And when they
INTERVIEWER: So they didnt really want to be in the class room.
PARTICIPANT #17: No. No.
INTERVIEWER: So now youve got some clients that want to be in the class room.
PARTICIPANT #17: They want to be in the class room. They want to be helped. They
want to have a relationship and they want to move ahead. So theyre engaged.
INTERVIEWER: So you think that a coaching client is typically more willing than a
student is in a formal education setting?
PARTICIPANT #17: The majority of them.
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INTERVIEWER: If I hired a tennis coach, Id be a lot more willing to learn about tennis
than if I was in a tennis class that I had to take in high school.
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, if you had to take it and you didnt like tennis. I found that
they came in and sat down; you stood up there and they listened and spent time and went
off to play, off to their basketball or whatever.
INTERVIEWER: Could you describe to me the coaching process and Im talking about
over the course of a few months, like when you get a new client in, how does the next
couple of months go for you with that?
PARTICIPANT #17: The next couple of months, as a rule, kind of fall into finding out
first of all who they are, getting their Heritage here so we know what were working with.
INTERVIEWER: Their Heritage Profile which is a personality profile?
PARTICIPANT #17: Correct. So we can work with them better because well kind of
know how they work a little bit, especially the timing and so forth. But first of all its
finding out where they currently are and where they want to go. And then setting it up
and basically on the front end, once you learn that, then it is getting down to pretty much
the basics of the working by referral system and trying to keep them on track over time.
INTERVIEWER: So now youre in teaching mode when youre showing them the
working by referral system.
PARTICIPANT #17: Pretty much. More teaching. But its one-on-one teaching and
guidance.
INTERVIEWER: Then what happens after that?
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PARTICIPANT #17: From there, you just keep going forwards in working with trying to
get them basically into what their gifts are. Because they will always work better, move
faster, and accomplish more if they will work in where their nature or gift structure is.
INTERVIEWER: So do you ever talk about things that they have shortcomings on?
INTERVIEWER: What do you do about that? Do you have them work on the
shortcomings or do you have them work on things that dont use the shortcomings?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, I try to get them to lean into what the natural gift is so they
enjoy their work and theyre going to enjoy it more but also do better.
INTERVIEWER: So you just have them avoid
PARTICIPANT #17: I dont have them avoid it. But you bring it up so they can see
what it is and then were working towards getting them to a place where they might be
able to hire somebody to fill in there. But they have to do it for awhile until they can get
somebody to maybe be supporting them there and do the paper work and that kind of
thing so that they canbecause most of them are frontline people. They love the front.
They like to be out with their clients. They love to sell.
INTERVIEWER: Most of them are more into the selling than dealing with the details of
the paperwork.
PARTICIPANT #17: You betcha. Theyre not good at that, and they spend way too
much time at it. So if we can get them to get an assistant, somebody that that is their gift
structure, and allow them basically to fly, they will always do better. Its sort of like
what the millionaire mind set talks about, whats your value, how much are you worth
per hour, youre better off hiring somebody to wash your car than for you to be out there
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washing your car when you could be on the phone for an hour earning more income.
Because thats income earning and the other isnt.
INTERVIEWER: Im looking for you to tell me about your experiences coaching, kind
of like a fishing story about a certain client or something that comes to mind, like
something you might bring up at the dinner table with your family about, hey, I had this
out and it worked today.
PARTICIPANT #17: Well there have been a lot of those over the years.
INTERVIEWER: What is your favorite one though?
PARTICIPANT #17: My favorite coaching story. I cant even think. Well there have
been many, many successes. And I think the joy of it all is growing them up, helping
them along the way, especially business owners and that kind of thing, to where youre
working with the managers and owners of the company to do well and then to sell their
company and retire.
INTERVIEWER: So you end up losing a client.
INTERVIEWER: And that ends up being okay for you?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well it hurts because youve built such a good relationship but you
also understand. Its like raising kids. Its a normal process and thats a healthy process.
And the goal is to grow them up and sometimes when you grow them up, they move on.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about something that youve done that works really well
with the coaching.
PARTICIPANT #17: Well its something different with each of them actually.
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INTERVIEWER: You dont have one technique that you find yourself using over and
over?
PARTICIPANT #17: What I find is if I can find the big why behind it all, why are they
doing this, why are you in real estate, why, why, why? Then when you know what the
why is
INTERVIEWER: Its pretty easy to determine how
PARTICIPANT #17: Its pretty easy. It is hard to get the why out of them because
they dont know the why most of the time.
INTERVIEWER: But once you know the why you can tell them how they can about
getting the why.
PARTICIPANT #17: Well sometimes they are in the wrong profession. But why are
you doing real estate?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
PARTICIPANT #17: And when they really get down to the bottom of it and when its
about serving people, enjoying the real estate, they just enjoy showing homes. Thats not
deep enough why.
INTERVIEWER: So a lot of times youve got to dig it out of them?
PARTICIPANT #17: Youve got to dig it out. The boss has to dig it out even.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me about things youve done that dont work well with a client.
PARTICIPANT #17: Sometimes you can be working with somebody and youve used
the one little technique over and over and over again and it works, and it work, and it
works, and all of a sudden it doesnt work with this one. It just doesnt match up with the
personality, who they are. You go, oh that didnt work. What am I going to try next?
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INTERVIEWER: So do you ever go back and look at the Heritage Profile and find out
why it didnt work?
PARTICIPANT #17: Oh I always have it on the left-hand side of the file. When Im
talking with them, its right there.
INTERVIEWER: The paper copy of it?
INTERVIEWER: And then you have the other stuff on the computer screen where you
keep your notes?
PARTICIPANT #17: So this is the person and I even try to keep a picture of the person
in my file so its more personable when Im talking.
INTERVIEWER: So youre looking at their picture too?
INTERVIEWER: Wow.
PARTICIPANT #17: That way, when you have a picture, youve got who they are, its
an individual sitting here that youre talking with. And that way, youre talking like
youve got joy in your heart and your voice because your just like we are sitting across
the table from each other having a conversation instead of talking at somebody.
INTERVIEWER: So youve already mentioned you have a background in teaching. Do
you have any other formal education for coaching? Did you ever like coach a football
team or
INTERVIEWER: Youve had some training here though.
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PARTICIPANT #17: Oh, major training. Ive been here with the company since
December of 1996, and every week were in training.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have anything less formal than that, like did you ever take
music lessons or have you ever had any sports coaching yourself?
PARTICIPANT #17: No. Ive been in sports though, as far as cheerleading and all that.
I like to hike and backpack and all that. I love challenges.
INTERVIEWER: Did you take lessons doing the hiking?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, I took one course to see how to survive out in the wilderness.
INTERVIEWER: So you had like a guide or something like that?
PARTICIPANT #17: No. We go on our own. Plan our own trips and all that kind of
stuff.
INTERVIEWER: So with all the training youve had like with education and all that
other stuff, can you give me an example of how thats helped you here?
PARTICIPANT #17: I think the background of education has always given me the
ability and desire to learn; also to bring the best out in people and try to dig the best out in
people, to prod, push, pull, kick, whatever it takes to get them to move forward. And the
net works a lot easier when they choose to be here than when they have to be here. You
know, its a lot of reading and constantlyI think the main thing is you have to
constantly be in personal growth yourself. I loved it when I coached one couple that they
were really taking it all on and I knew I had to keep personally growing and use it as a
challenge to stay in front of them. So I constantly read; I probably read 15 or 20 books a
year plus CDs and that kind of thing and so on, but always trying to keep up with the
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industry, always trying to keep ahead of where they are going. And always keeping track
of your notes and that kind of thing, because you know youre going to be there again.
INTERVIEWER: So when we talk about the goal-setting you already mentioned about
the why and that you use that a lot for goal-setting. Can you tell me more about goalsetting with clients, and helping them set goals?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, here we have the philosophy and training about calling it the
smart they should be specific, measurable, achievable, realistic
INTERVIEWER: Whats the T?
PARTICIPANT #17: I forgot. Itll come. Its up there.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Ill have to look that one up.
PARTICIPANT #17: Ive got it over there on my chart anyway.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Maybe you can tell me later. So lets say you have a client
who is unwilling to set goals. How do you deal with that?
PARTICIPANT #17: Some of them, if they are too far out, have a hard time setting a
goal. And sometimes its just, what are you trying to achieve in your life? Whats the
main achievement so that at least you get something way out there and then you can kind
off guide them. What are you doing this week to get you to this? But many times if
theyre specific its right in here and its so close, what did you do today? Here are the
five little things or the no matter whats; you know, to reach this goal out here, youve
got to focus on the proactivity being number one here.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever have to tell them what their goal is?
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INTERVIEWER: You do? You tell them theyve got to make five calls this week or
something?
PARTICIPANT #17: Absolutely. Well be talking and Ill say, Remember two weeks
ago, you said your goal was to do this. Have you done that yet? Well, no. Did you
not want it bad enough?
INTERVIEWER: You said two weeks ago they said that was their goal.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever have something where they have just not said what their
goal is and you have to
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. You get it where theyll send no goals in.
INTERVIEWER: And so how do you determine what their goals would be in that
situation?
PARTICIPANT #17: I just basically tell them, Youre asking me to help you get there.
However, give me something to work with; otherwise Im going to be guiding you to
where I want you to go instead of where you want to go.
INTERVIEWER: And do you ever do that? Do you ever guide them to where you want
them to go?
PARTICIPANT #17: I have.
INTERVIEWER: And do you ever have trouble getting buy-in from them when its
where you want them to go instead of where they want to go?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, because where I want them to go is to have a good business,
so I try to keep them into their proactivity of doing listing appointments and things that
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earn money, working with buyers, basically staying in the top ten most effective things
they can do in real estate. And telling
INTERVIEWER: So thats how you determine their goals if they dont determine them
for you. You look at the top ten things they can do
PARTICIPANT #17: Youre in real estate. Here are the top most effective things you
can do in real estate.
INTERVIEWER: And do you ever give them the top ten and say tell them to pick a
couple and lets do some of these?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, theyre all on the Internet. I mean, they can go in there and
print those out.
INTERVIEWER: But do you ever tell them to go this URL, heres the list and next week
I want you to tell me three of these youre going to do?
INTERVIEWER: Okay. So other than the goal-setting
PARTICIPANT #17: Well not even tell them, here are the top ten. How many listing
appointments do you have scheduled for next week? How many are you going to get?
INTERVIEWER: So youll go through all of the top ten?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, as far as we can get.
INTERVIEWER: So other than goal-setting is there some coaching or teaching
technique that you find yourself using regularly with these clients?
PARTICIPANT #17: You have to have patience, you have to listen.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about listening?
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PARTICIPANT #17: Well if youre talking over them, it doesnt work, but you have to
listen and by listening I mean more by listening to the tone of their voice, listening and
reading between the lines as to what theyre not saying.
INTERVIEWER: Why are you such a good listener?
PARTICIPANT #17: I didnt say I was.
INTERVIEWER: Well why would somebody be a bad listener?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well if the call is all about you talking, talking, talking like a
teacher, standing there just presenting, it has to be a mutual communication back and
forth.
INTERVIEWER: So you walk into the call with a goal of hearing what this person is
going to say?
INTERVIEWER: So you setting that goal for yourself helps you achieve that goal.
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. Basically, do you remember last time we talked we were
talking about making this all happen. Just bring me up to date how you got to where you
got on all the things you were going to do and heres the first one and they will start
giving you feedback. Well, why did you not get to this one? What pulls you off course?
INTERVIEWER: So the situation youre in now is considered a distance-learning
environment. How do you feel thats different? Youve done some teaching in front of
classrooms, in-person, and you mentioned you did some one-on-one in that teaching
situation, so how is that different than this distance-learning thing youre in now?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, one of the main differences is that theyre not sitting right in
front of you and I didnt have 23 of them at a time sitting in front of me. Its more
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individual now because when youre teaching a classroom youve got like 22 to 23
people and youre kind of teaching to the middle, trying to get them all there; however,
there are some that are getting it, some that arent, and it seems like everything is
presented that way because there is no time to really take them aside one at a time.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, but you said you did do that. You did do some one-on-one.
INTERVIEWER: Lets compare the one-on-one in-person teaching to the one-on-one
coaching over the phone and using Internet and e-mail. So tell me whats different about
those two things.
PARTICIPANT #17: I think one-on-one coaching is different in that were kind of
working on a more of the Five Circles where in classroom teaching, when you were oneon-one with somebody, it was on one specific issue; like if you were a math major you
were working on division.
INTERVIEWER: But I mean, this is kind of the difference between coaching and
teaching and this business and all that, but the difference between having the person right
there in front of you as opposed to having him over the phone and over the Internet.
PARTICIPANT #17: For myself, its not as stressful.
INTERVIEWER: So its a little more confrontational when youre
PARTICIPANT #17: Face-to-face.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had a real estate coaching client come into your office
PARTICIPANT #17: There would be no problem with that.
INTERVIEWER: But how would you do that differently than the way you do it on the
phone?
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PARTICIPANT #17: Id do it the same.
INTERVIEWER: Youd pretty much do it the same?
INTERVIEWER: So what does your desk look like right now?
PARTICIPANT #17: Right now? There are some little piles but by the end of the day
theyll all be cleaned up.
INTERVIEWER: So lets say you had a coaching client that was going to come in a half
hour; what would your desk look like?
PARTICIPANT #17: It would be picked up and neat and tidy.
INTERVIEWER: So thats something different you would do?
INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else like that?
PARTICIPANT #17: Well what I find is to not carry one to the other. Sometimes after
one call Ill take one little walk around the building to get centered again and I try to keep
my work space clean which is the file in front of me of that client.
INTERVIEWER: So you need something to clean your palate after youre done.
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. Absolutely, because its too easy to roll the emotion of one to
the other and they dont deserve that.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had them coming into the office and they were back-to-back,
you would find that you probably wouldnt have the time to clean your palate in between.
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes I would. Because right now Im late on a call but its because
Ive gotten off of one and Ill go to the kitchen and come back; it may be three minutes,
but Im ready to go. But I will have files behind me that need work to be done in them,
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but I never have them up front with me because, otherwise, thats kind of in the back of
my mind because I can see it. So I just have the one in front of me where my focus needs
to be. And everything else is back there on the credenza.
INTERVIEWER: Are you running late right now?
PARTICIPANT #17: No. No. But even if I am running from one to the other to the
other, I will always get up and walk away, go to the kitchen, or just go out and around the
hall and come back. And if youve had a really hard call and its been really emotional
and all that because maybe they lost their parents or whatever and theyve been crying on
the phone and all that kind of thing, you need to settle down too and I will just apologize
to the next client telling them that Im so sorry that Ive had a major emergency with the
person prior to them and I needed to settle down before I came to them. And well make
up the time.
INTERVIEWER: And do you ever tell your clients about that might be how things go
right when youre getting them in as clients? Like if Im ever late its because
PARTICIPANT #17: I will let them know that sometimes we try to keep on time the
closest we can, but just know that from time to time that we do run over a little bit.
Were always better than a doctors office. It might just be five minutes but no longer
than seven, pretty much.
INTERVIEWER: Could you please just walk me through a typical coaching call?
PARTICIPANT #17: Okay. Oh Lord. I need a computer screen. Really and truly, first
of all the pleasantries, and how are you doing and all that kind of thing. Then give me an
overview of your successes, of what you were able to accomplish since we talked last.
And you always start off with the good stuff. And theyve always accomplished
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something and theres movement. Then well go into the successes first and then where
were the challenges?
INTERVIEWER: So you actually ask them about the negative stuff too?
PARTICIPANT #17: Absolutely. I ask them what the challenges have been that theyve
dealt with in the last couple of weeks since we talked last. Then I find out what
challenges theyre going through right now. Its different every time, what can I say.
Then I ask if they need help with the challenges. What did you do about those
challenges? How did you walk through those challenges? Are you still having those
challenges? You just keep asking questions and asking questions to really see where they
are to try to move them ahead. Sometimes they are already over and done, but most of
the challenges today it seems like are more financial or time-based and pressure-based
because of things not actually coming together the way they used to. They might say one
of the biggest challenges theyre having is three deals that are not going right and theyre
taking longer. Theyve moved out or theyve fallen and then we get into the action steps
and so forth. I always have like what we discussed and sometimes theyll bring up some
other topic they want to discuss and things that we just talked about. Then what are the
action steps to move you towards the goal here for the next two weeks? What are you
going to be held accountable to?
INTERVIEWER: So that is how you always wrap up the call, with the action steps?
INTERVIEWER: So you ask them what the action steps are to get towards the greater
goal?
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INTERVIEWER: So youre talking about the specific things they need to do to get to
this bigger goal?
PARTICIPANT #17: And then Ill say, Thats in business. Then Ill say, Do you
have any action steps you want me to hold you accountable to in the other four circles?
If they answer affirmatively, Ill write them.
INTERVIEWER: Do you write them down for yourself or do you put them in the tracker
for them?
PARTICIPANT #17: I actually type them on a Word Perfect program and then I cut and
paste it in the system. But I
INTERVIEWER: You put it into the tracker?
INTERVIEWER: Do you have your own notes that you keep separately?
PARTICIPANT #17: Yes. Because I print them out and I have them right on the file
because Im very visual and that way I dont have
INTERVIEWER: So you like the paper copy in the file?
INTERVIEWER: So youre not real crazy about the tracker?
PARTICIPANT #17: I have the tracker open so that I can see what theyve posted, but
thats proactivity and their deals from that kind of thing. But the notes on what weve
talked about, what their successes were, what weve discussed, what their challenges are
and the new activities, they are on a sheet just like this and I look at it.
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INTERVIEWER: In developing the tracker, we ran into some challenges about making
that printable because they kept adding columns to it. Would it be better for you if that
tracker was more printable? Would you be printing out their
PARTICIPANT #17: Well it is more printable now. It has a printer friendly version.
INTERVIEWER: Well it has always had that, but weve always had trouble with that
because of how wide it was. Unless they took some columns away, there is no way
PARTICIPANT #17: Well, I dont know. I open it up and print it out and use what I
can. But most of the time I just have it open and run up and down it and flip between
screens.
INTERVIEWER: So youre okay with it being on the computer?
INTERVIEWER: And then you have other things that youve printed out like the
Heritage Profile?
PARTICIPANT #17: Oh I print pretty much everything. Im very visual. So therefore, I
have the Heritage in there, I have their goals in the file, I have their successes from last
year in the file, and sometimes if there is a whole lot of business I will print it out ahead
of time of their lead generation tracker and Ill have that in the file so that if Im going to
have too many things open, and I just get prepped for the call.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. That was a good interview.
PARTICIPANT #18
PARTICIPANT #18: I think coaching is just helping people achieve their goals, be more
successful in life and by pulling information and pulling things out of them to help them
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move forward. Its kind of like a partnership you know. Were working together but Im
going to nudge your forward and Im going to affirm you and show you what youre
doing right and help you with the stuff youre not doing so good on. So its really just to
help people move forward.
INTERVIEWER: Are you actually coaching anybody right now?
INTERVIEWER: But you have coached people in the past?
PARTICIPANT #18: Oh yeah. Ive been here for ten years Leroy. I did start as a coach.
INTERVIEWER: So you probably have a definition in your mind of what teaching is
and how would you say that differs from what coaching typically is?
PARTICIPANT #18: I would think teaching is probably giving information to others
that they dont necessarily have. Coaching is, granted the boss, you could say hes a
teacher, he presents information that they may or may not have or they dont have it in
INTERVIEWER: So when he presents it, its not so much of a coaching experience; its
more of a teaching experience.
PARTICIPANT #18: Right, because its not as interactive. Whereas coaching, I think, is
very interactive. A coach asks questions, a coach tries to figure out their strengths and
whats the best way to get the most out of you. And I dont think teachers have to do
that. They dont have that responsibility necessarily. They just give them information
and, depending on how closely they work
INTERVIEWER:
So weve started being real specific about what this company does
and weve started calling that business coaching, so could you define business coaching
for me?
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PARTICIPANT #18: Well, its helping become more successful in their business,
helping them achieve their goals.
INTERVIEWER: Is that different than other coaching/
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, it has a different focus. You know, life coaching isnt
necessarily about business. But business coaching is pretty specific. Yeah, were
INTERVIEWER: But its not necessarily about business, right?
PARTICIPANT #18: Business coaching?
INTERVIEWER: I mean the coaching you do here is not necessarily about business.
Sometimes you get into the other circles.
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, the boss calls it Five-Circle coaching, but our focus is really
on business and finances. But we have to be aware of the other things that are going on
in their lives. So if one of their goals is to lose 20 pounds, were going to cheer them on
because things are interconnected, but mostly our focus is to stay in business and
finances, because thats our expertise. Were not trying to be life coaches and were not
training people to be life coaches, so
INTERVIEWER: So did you have some preparation for this job? What were you doing
before you came here?
PARTICIPANT #18: I actually worked at a church and I coached small group leaders.
INTERVIEWER: In the church?
PARTICIPANT #18: In the church and I ran a small-group department and I also did
some, I dont know, you could say spiritual coaching or faith coaching, which was just
more of an encouragement.
INTERVIEWER: Is that how you met the boss?
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PARTICIPANT #18: No. I met the boss through Barth. Barth and I go to the same
church.
INTERVIEWER: Oh really! And he wasnt the preacher there? He was just going to
church there?
PARTICIPANT #18: He was one of the preachers. Yeah, we had several. So he was
like a fill-in.
INTERVIEWER: So when you started here you had clients that went on for months and
years that worked with you. Can you describe that process? Like when you first get
them on and how it goes for the next couple of months after that.
PARTICIPANT #18: Describe what its like when I first get a client?
INTERVIEWER: The coaching process. Not like the call, the 30-minute call, but the
process of coaching somebody over the period of a few months or years.
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, I think the first thing is getting to know them. Where are
they at in their business, are they new, have they been in business for awhile, what are
their systems, where do they need the most help, how structured are they, what are their
goals? Do they take days off? Do they need help managing their time? So its really
working with them to assess their situation in their business. Do they need help? What is
their immediate goal? What do they need to do first? Cut expenses, makes money,
generate some leads; and then you customize it based on all the things that we teach here,
that the boss teaches and presents, and how best to get them moving forward quickly,
because if our clients dont make money quickly, theyre not going to stay with us.
INTERVIEWER: So you get to know them and after youve gotten to know them you
teach them the systems that you have in place here. And then how does it go after that?
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PARTICIPANT #18: The ongoing process of coaching. Depending on the client,
sometimes if the client is really motivated, moves quickly and can do a lot, some people
will have a different capacity to do work. And so if they are a client that is very
motivated and does a lot of work, sometimes its just a check-in call. Hows it going?
Lets talk about your numbers. Are we moving forward towards your goal? Did you get
this done?
INTERVIEWER: And then sometimes its a kick in the butt for the slow people?
PARTICIPANT #18: Sometimes its like, what are you doing? Whats wrong with you?
Dont you want to make money? Im here to help you but youve got to do some work.
INTERVIEWER: So those are difficult for you.
PARTICIPANT #18: Oh sure, and its everything in between. Sometimes it comes
down to their self esteem and their challenges and obstacles, and their excusestheyre
people, so
INTERVIEWER: So, the boss has a lot of stories about different clients hes had over
the years. If I was like one of your family members and I hadnt seen you for awhile and
I show up at dinner. Id probably go, Hey, I hear youre into this coaching thing? Tell
me about that. Do you have a story you typically tell about it?
PARTICIPANT #18: You mean about a client?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I have this client. And you dont tell them the name, but you
talk about a client who did this.
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, its been awhile since Ive coached.
INTERVIEWER: Well, you coach coaches too.
PARTICIPANT #18: True. But youre kind of specific to clients.
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INTERVIEWER: Just some story about coaching.
PARTICIPANT #18: I probably have a heart for coaching because I really love to see
people grow and get free of old stuff thats in their way. I love to see them achieve their
goals. I love to see them become stronger.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have an example of some success?
PARTICIPANT #18: So what kind of story would I tell? Well heres an example thats
real time for me. I lead the coaching advisory board and I have coaches on the advisory
board. I coach them and invest in them and help them grow as leaders in the department.
And I think that helps them grow as coaches. Thats probably one of my favorite things
to do on my job.
INTERVIEWER: You mean you find somebody whos like a worker bee and you make
them come into more of a manager type
PARTICIPANT #18: No! Leader. You invest in them. You listen to them. You hear
what they have to say. You empower them where you can and then watch them grow.
They step up and become leaders, and I like that.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have things that worked well when you were coaching and
youre still coaching, you have some techniques that work well. Can you describe some
things that you do that work well?
PARTICIPANT #18: Listen. Listening is the key. People need to be heard.
Encouragement and being a truth tellerthose are probably the three things.
INTERVIEWER: A what?
PARTICIPANT #18: A truth teller.
INTERVIEWER: A truth teller?
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PARTICIPANT #18: Yeah, but doing it in such a way thatpeople are more likely to
receive the truth from you when they know you care.
INTERVIEWER: So sometimes they dont see the truth in their own lives and you have
to be a mirror to them?
INTERVIEWER: Tell me something that doesnt work well.
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, what I learned is something that doesnt work well and the
flip side of that is hitting people between the eyes with truth when you dont have the
kind of relationship where theyll receive it from you. So, you know, dont assume that
people will receive what you have to say. There needs to be a way of delivering the truth
with being sensitive to whom they are. The other thing I would say is not really listening,
not hearing them, making assumptions and judgments that arent true to who they are,
and people do not respond well to that. I can tell you it doesnt work as a coach and the
customer service complaints I get when I hear, My coach didnt hear me. Or, It just
sounded like they were reading a script. So there wasnt a genuine interest in the person
and a desire to listen.
INTERVIEWER: So having a script doesnt work so well?
PARTICIPANT #18: Not really. Its a pretty organic process.
INTERVIEWER: So you mentioned that you had some experience in a church prior to
them. Did you have any other experiences that prepared you for this job as a coach?
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, I think my corporate experience really helped me.
INTERVIEWER: What were you doing there? Was it sells?
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PARTICIPANT #18: No it wasnt sells. I was a manager in the corporate office for
Longs Drug Stores for eight years.
INTERVIEWER: So you found yourself in a mentoring role that?
PARTICIPANT #18: And a management role. And because it was a corporate office
and a smaller office, I had a wide variety of responsibilities which I think helps you learn
how to coach people in business. Also, when I worked at the church, I handled the
finances. I handled paying the bills. I basically managed the office and the volunteers
and I think that was like running a small business. So I think those two things really
impacted my ability to coach. You know, running a church is like running a small
business, only you dont have money. I guess you dont in small businesses either.
Probably working at the church for three years was like going to college. It was the
perfect environment for me to learn to be a coach.
INTERVIEWER: Was there anything less formal than the things that weve already
talked about that prepared you for this? Were you ever on a sports team or music or stuff
like that?
PARTICIPANT #18: Oh sure! In high school, I did a lot of sports and music. I knew
what it was like to be coached. And I suppose what you learn through the years is that
there are coaches you look up to and respect and listen to and there are coaches you
dont. So you learn to kind of create your own style based on how you like to be treated.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have any examples about all this experience and training
that youve actually used on the job, other than the things weve already talked about?
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PARTICIPANT #18: Well sure. In my case, well, I dont know how this ties in but Ill
just share it. In my case, a lot of the small group experience that I had has taught me how
to develop leaders and manage through teams.
INTERVIEWER: So you found your role here where youre dealing with groups of
people more than one-on-one.
PARTICIPANT #18: Well, I was a coach and that was one-on-one. As a manager, as a
leader, I do work through teams. So, but
INTERVIEWER: So do you find yourself assigning tasks to certain team members
because theyre better at doing certain things and avoiding certain team members for
things that they dont like doing or are not very good at?
PARTICIPANT #18: Absolutely. I probably am likely to give things to people that have
stepped up, offered to help, and want to help. Ill let them make mistakes, you know,
because I think its real important to empower people and you let them make mistakes;
its an important part of growth.
INTERVIEWER: When youre mentoring these coaches, do you ever have them set
goals for themselves, using the coaching model with them?
PARTICIPANT #18: You know, I havent; I did with master coaches. I take that back.
I did when I was managing master coaches which we dont have anymore.
INTERVIEWER: And do you miss the master coaches?
PARTICIPANT #18: Yes and no. I mean I enjoyed the team and I really enjoyed the
people but its nice not having a middle person. Were a lot smaller
INTERVIEWER: So now youre talking directly to the coaches?
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PARTICIPANT #18: For now I am. You know, when we had 90 coaches I think it was
important to have middle management.
INTERVIEWER: So you dont have the coaches set goals so much as you did with the
master coaches?
PARTICIPANT #18: They have to set goals and they were doing it with master coaches.
We had not stepped in and filled that gap yet. But it doesnt mean it wont get done
because there has to be one-on-one accountability. When they
INTERVIEWER: But you have done that when you were coaching?
PARTICIPANT #18: I have done that. Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: When you were coaching clients?
INTERVIEWER: Right now, theres a gap there and you dont have your coaches
setting goals.
PARTICIPANT #18: Right. When Linda comes back, we will because Linda is on
leave. But when I was a coach, it was absolutely essential that I knew their goals. I just
couldnt move them forward if I didnt know where they wanted to go. Its totally
essential. When I work with people, it is to achieve a goal but it isnt necessarily a
specific goal; its a company goal.
INTERVIEWER: So when you had the clients and they were setting goals, how did you
get them involved in the goal-setting?
PARTICIPANT #18: I asked them what their goals were and sometimes they could tell
me and sometimes they couldnt. Then I had to dig it out of them. Its like, How many
transactions do you want to make? How many did you make last year? How many do
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you need to make? Have you done your finances? Why is that a goal for you? Is that
realistic? And then I wrote it down and I was on them like a dog. You know, its like,
Okay, well what do we need to do to achieve that goal? There are different ways of
doing it; the number of transactions, how many leads are generated, and how many are
converted to close transactions to raising your average sales price. So I was always on
them because I think efficiency is very important. I was always on them to raise their
average sales price so they could do fewer transactions. Its like, Whats the quickest
way to get to where you want to go so you can have fun and do what you really want to
do?
INTERVIEWER: Did they ever set goals that you ended up finding were not really their
goals?
PARTICIPANT #18: You mean goals that werent realistic?
INTERVIEWER: Goals that werent really what they wanted.
PARTICIPANT #18: Yeah. Theyll tell you what they think you want to hear. And
then
INTERVIEWER: So its a process getting to what they really want?
PARTICIPANT #18: Yes and then you try to get them to works towards their goal and
theyre not very motivated so you have to find out why. Isnt this a meaningful goal to
you? Okay. What is a meaningful goal? How can we make it meaningful? You know, I
dont know, people dont know what they want half the time. You want to travel? You
want to make a certain amount of money?
INTERVIEWER: Did you ever have dead air whenever you go, What are your goals?
with somebody and how did you deal with that?
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PARTICIPANT #18: I asked them again.
INTERVIEWER: Just keep asking the same question, right?
PARTICIPANT #18: You have to kind of gauge; are they thinking about it or is there a
real block? Am I getting loud? So a lot of times I would just say, Look, give me
something so that we can start moving forward. I just would tell them that I couldnt
move them forward if I didnt know where they wanted to go. So Id ask them to give
me something, a number of transactions, do you want vacations, do you want to travel,
just give me something. What do you really want to do? It would come down to
sometimes theyd want to buy homes, fix them up and sell them, or take a day off; just a
variety of things, clean up their moms house, you know.
INTERVIEWER: So did you ever find yourself writing a goal down for a client instead
of having them do it?
PARTICIPANT #18: Oh I never created the goal for them, but if it meant, I mean I put it
in the notes so I always referred back to it, so
INTERVIEWER: But it was always coming out of their mouth first?
PARTICIPANT #18: Sure. Im not going
INTERVIEWER: So other than having them set goals, is there some kind of coaching or
teaching technique that you find yourself using all the time, or were using?
PARTICIPANT #18: Sure. It was always doing and saying the same thing. I mean,
coaching isnt sexy or glamorous. Its like
INTERVIEWER: What is the same thing?
PARTICIPANT #18: Its like asking them the same questions. How did the last couple
of weeks go? Why didnt you do you activities? What is in your way? It was
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INTERVIEWER: What is in your way?
PARTICIPANT #18: What is in your way? Why didnt you do it? What are your
challenges? Why do you think that people wont refer to you? Talking and talking and
talking it through with them.
INTERVIEWER: It sounds like youve experienced a lot of frustration with the clients?
PARTICIPANT #18: It does?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Why dont you do this? Why arent you doing it?
PARTICIPANT #18: Theres a saying around here, You cant want it more than they
do. And sometimes you can see it and sense it in them, and theyre just not willing to
take steps.
INTERVIEWER: So you help them realize that they need to want this a little more than
they seem to?
PARTICIPANT #18: No. My job as a coach was to help them realize that they could do
it. You know, I dont know what they want and Im not going to put on them what they
want. But my job as a coach was to give them the tools and to help them realize that they
can get it. You know, believe it for Gods sake. I believe in you. Lets go for it.
INTERVIEWER: So this situation were in here is called a distance-learning
environment. How do you feel thats different than in-person coaching?
PARTICIPANT #18: Its more efficient.
INTERVIEWER: You think so, huh?
PARTICIPANT #18: Well its more efficient from a were not traveling to get face-toface, and I suppose its good because you can coach people all over the world, whereas, if
you had me face-to-face you wouldnt be able to coach people all over the world. And as
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you know, were moving into webcams and everything, so well be face-to-face based on
that. I think it has pros and cons. I think the pros are like I said, its efficient. You can
coach people all over the country. You rely very heavily on listening. You know, you
dont see their visual cues and it heightens your sense of listening and thats not a bad
thing. You listen to whats not being said. You know, you pay attention to silences.
You become very strategic in your communication. The downside is, when youre
visual, you get to see their body language and their visual cues. So you really have to get
in the zone to listen to them, to know what theyre saying, to know what theyre not
saying and to pull out, to keep the truthful, transparent thing going on there because,
otherwise, its a waste of time. I dont like wasting time.
INTERVIEWER: So you think there are things that are improved with the distance
model?
PARTICIPANT #18: I think weve proven time and time again that it can work; so yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think there would be something that would be better if it was
in-person?
PARTICIPANT #18: Actually, I think one of the advantages of it not being in person is
you can create stronger boundaries. And I think in person youre boundaries might be
challenged more. You know, Hey, lets just go out for a drink. Because coaching does
not have the very strict regulation that psychologists and psychiatrists have.
INTERVIEWER: And teachers?
PARTICIPANT #18: Yeah. So to that point, were a little liable too. We have to be
careful. Theyre opening up, theyre sharing confidential information and weve got a lot
of structure and systems in place to protect that relationship; but we are not regulated so
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theres a little bit of liability there too. So I think distance and over the phone creates a
little safety there for both sides.
INTERVIEWER: So is there any kind of special technique you use because its using the
distance, with the Internet and e-mail and the telephone?
PARTICIPANT #18: Thats the special technique. I dont know. Do you mean as far as
coaching itself?
INTERVIEWER: Yes. Do you guys still tape the coaching calls?
PARTICIPANT #18: No. We only taped them for training purposes.
INTERVIEWER: And you havent been doing that lately?
PARTICIPANT #18: No. I dont think so. People would tape the calls to listen to it
themselves or you know to try to learn their own coaching style or when they were
working with a master coach they would listen to the call together and the master coach
would point out the techniques that they could learn from and do differently and, Hey,
you missed an opportunity. Why didnt you ask for a referral there? Or you know,
You werent listening. The only reason we recorded calls was that it was a little easier
than someone always listening to the call. Thats the only reason, for training.
INTERVIEWER: Could you walk me through a typical coaching call?
PARTICIPANT #18: A half-hour call, not a new client? You give them a call, Hows it
going? Whats new? The last time we talked we agreed to these action steps. How did it
go? Were you able to do them? Then you listen to their excuses or you celebrate with
them and then you go, Okay, you didnt get them done but you need to get them done
because you need to make money if you want to pay the bills and put food on the table.
So what are we going to do in the next couple of weeks to change.
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INTERVIEWER: So the wrap-up is usually the action steps?
PARTICIPANT #18: Absolutely. You start with last calls action steps and you end
with the next calls action steps. And I know, just from being in management, that
people complain if the coach never refers back to them; so that has to be a constant.
There has to be some kind of call to action; otherwise its just chit chatting, you know.
INTERVIEWER: Thats it.
PARTICIPANT #18: Thats it? Youre all done!
PARTICIPANT #19
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching? Not the company definition.
PARTICIPANT #19: You dont want the company line? Okay. I define coaching by
identifying whats really important to the client and learning what their challenges are
and then helping them find ways to move through those challenges, but also identifying
for them in the process that thats what theyre doing so that they take that lesson and
keep applying it, not feeling that they have to have somebody help them through the same
thing over and over.
INTERVIEWER: This different from teaching, right?
PARTICIPANT #19: Oh its very different from teaching because teaching from my
perspective is standing up and giving information; and youre not in the trenches taking
the specific person and the challenges and whats going on, whats preventing, and
whats important and working through it. Youre just giving information through
teaching.
INTERVIEWER: So you do business coaching here. Do you have a definition of
business coaching?
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PARTICIPANT #19: Thats our primary focus so were always looking at what the
business goals are. We help them create business plans. A lot of them havent done that
before. In business coaching, the goal is always to create a business that can keep its
momentum going, that working by referral business is what we try to reinforce. So our
focus is whats going on in their business, how are they working their business, how can
they implement new systems and how effectively are they working those systems. So
thats our primary focus, but everything that goes on in their life impacts them all the
time.
INTERVIEWER: So you find yourself being a little bit of a life coach in this job?
PARTICIPANT #19: You have to be.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have some preparation to be a business coach before you
came here?
PARTICIPANT #19: It was never coaching. Ive been in 20 to 25 years of management
before coming here. So Ive managed people and in the managing Ive trained people.
INTERVIEWER: So you manage clients here.
PARTICIPANT #19: It is similar but I help them learn how to better manage their
business.
INTERVIEWER: So theres a coaching process and Im not talking about the realtor
process you have here but theres a process to the coaching thing that you do. Could you
tell me about that?
PARTICIPANT #19: For me, the coaching process is building a connection and I say for
me because Im extremely relational in nature, so if Im having challenges or blocks in
building a connection with somebody Im probably not going to be able to successfully
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coach them because the connection is how theyre able to open up, share their fears
because so much of coaching we identify fears. Sometimes they admit to them;
sometimes theyre not recognizing them as fears, but Im fearful of how people will see
me, Im fearful of failing. Im fearful you know, all those things. But the connection
is the important process and then asking a lot of questions to identify whats important to
them and then asking some of the challenging questions like what has stopped them
before and whats worked before. The coaching process is me asking questions to help
them find their answers. I dont have their answers for them.
INTERVIEWER: Youre looking for them to look with you?
INTERVIEWER: Im trying to get some fishing stories about coaching like the
anecdotes that are brought up at the convention.
PARTICIPANT #19: Anecdotes that are brought up at the convention?
INTERVIEWER: Your own anecdote, similar to ones that you hear at the events.
PARTICIPANT #19: I dont know that Im going to be good on this question. Stories?
Situations?
INTERVIEWER: This is all anonymous so
PARTICIPANT #19: I know. Im just trying to understand.
INTERVIEWER: Like I had this realtor and he did this, that and the other thing.
PARTICIPANT #19: Ive coached this lady; I dont know that I have a crazy story. One
of the things that we teach is doing pop eyes. I coached her for seven years. I coached
her when she first started doing real estate. She is on the East Coast. She works in the
Arlington area. With the boss system, the things that we coach are fundamentals, certain
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things that you have to do and so she came with, Im desperately in need of help. I have
no money but you have to understand, were East Coast, we dont do pop eyes. I said,
What do you mean? She goes, You California people, thats fine for you guys, but
thats just not done out here. They would think I was desperate. So she fought me and
fought me for four years on it. We went around and around and given that the market
was real successful, she was able to make good money. All of a sudden, the markets
been hard and four months ago she called me and said that she was having panic attacks
at night and actually thought she was having a heart attack. She said, I dont have any
money and I dont have any leads and I need you to help me. I said, Okay. Well what
do you think Im going to tell you to go do? She said, Youre going to say pop eyes,
arent you? I said, I am. And by the end of the week, she had four referrals. By the
end of a month, she had several new deals, she had deals pending, and financially she
was stabilizing again, which is huge. She even quit for a month because she didnt have
any money to pay. I said, Im going to keep coaching you through this month because I
know youre coming back. She said, I am. So now she tells people about pop eyes
and this week, she sent me a sample of her pop eye for our pop eye table. Now this is a
lady who didnt believe in pop eyes. Now she has become a pop eye queen, so to speak.
And she is thriving really well.
INTERVIEWER: Thats good. So have you done some other things than what weve
already talked about that work really well as a coach?
PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. When people keep having challenges or, I cant do that. I
just cant get around to it. Calls. Calls are a big block. All the excuses, a 101 excuses.
Theres only so much accountability that you can give over the phone. You cant beat
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them. You can try to stalk them but they just dont pick up the phone. So I set people up
and they dont know that Im setting them up. One of the things that I do is I say, Bring
your list of the people weve been trying to reach. I need to know who they are and what
youre relationship is like with them. So bring their names and phone numbers, all of
that, and were going to talk tomorrow. Okay, great. We have all the phone numbers,
okay what are their names? So I start writing down their names. Okay, youve blocked
how much time for our appointment? Thirty minutes. Perfect. What I want you to do is,
Im going to hang up now and youre going to call the first five people on the list and if
you get through them and none of those people are home youre going to keep calling
until five minutes before the hour. Then Ill call you back to find out how your calls
went. And people that have terror, because our clients are truly terrified of phone calls,
they go, Wait, ah, ah, but, but. I say, Go, your clock starts now. Youve got the
phone numbers, now go. And I hang up. And I say, if youre still on the phone when I
call, do not hang up on the person youre speaking to. Enjoy the moment and Ill talk to
you the following day and Ill follow up with an e-mail. Thats one of the things that
helps people break through their terror. They thank me.
INTERVIEWER: So have you tried some things that didnt work well?
PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. Following up on people and saying, If youll just check in
with me every day or if I can just e-mail you every day and give you daily updates that
would really help. And Ive found that thats really great the first three or four days, but
after two weeks of it, the fantasy or excitement of it is over and theyre still stuck or go
right back to the same old problem. So it doesnt work well.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have any formal coaching training before you came here?
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PARTICIPANT #19: No I did not.
INTERVIEWER: You had some training here, right?
PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. We had about three months of training before we were
allowed to speak to a client, regardless of our previous experience with clients and then
we have ongoing training here all the time.
INTERVIEWER: Can you tell me about that training a little bit?
PARTICIPANT #19: Theyre always trying to identify the challenges our clients are
having and help us with how to better work through those challenges.
INTERVIEWER: And did you have any less formal training prior to coming here.
PARTICIPANT #19: Not for coaching, I mean, all my years of experience managing
people.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have any executive coaching when you were a manager?
PARTICIPANT #19: No. I never did.
INTERVIEWER: So the training you get here, can you give me an example of how it
has helped you as a coach?
PARTICIPANT #19: Most of the time, the training hasnt been very effective for me
except for when weve done panel training. Panel training is getting a group of coaches
up there and theyve got certain subjects or hard things that were dealing with on the
phone.
INTERVIEWER: And theyre talking about what they do that works well. So youre
sharing techniques that work well.
INTERVIEWER: So do you have clients set goals for themselves?
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INTERVIEWER: So how do you get them involved in that?
PARTICIPANT #19: I find out why its important to them. Did somebody else do the
goal for you? Because frequently youll find that somebody told them they should be
doing this or that. They have no attachment to it, so I ask them the why and what will it
look like once they accomplish it. What does that look like? Paint the picture for me.
Visualize it for me.
INTERVIEWER: Do you ever have to set the goal for the client?
PARTICIPANT #19: Absolutely, especially with people who are newer to the business
or new to coaching.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you determine what the goal is going to be?
PARTICIPANT #19: Based on usually what they feel is really important. I find out the
thing that is really important and what I try to do is back it down to a 90-day goal,
something that we can actually accomplish.
INTERVIEWER: So their tendency is to make a bigger goal and you find you have to
scale that down a bit for them?
PARTICIPANT #19: Adjust their expectation, yes.
INTERVIEWER: So you have systems that you teach them here to do the specific
business and you use some teaching techniques. Tell me a little bit about that?
PARTICIPANT #19: Well, yes we do use teaching techniques. How I use mine is I pull
examples from other clients because people listen to that and learn from it really well.
And so experientially people learn more effectively by hearing about other peoples
experiences. It helps them start to engage in the conversation.
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INTERVIEWER: So what we have here is a distance-learning environment. The people
arent coming in. So tell me about how you see that differing from when youre at the
events and sometimes coach them face-to-face, right?
INTERVIEWER: So whats different about the distance thing?
PARTICIPANT #19: Than coaching face-to-face? I think it is easier with the distance to
call people on their stuff. Being removed kind of gives permission
INTERVIEWER: Its less of an emotional thing?
PARTICIPANT #19: Its not as confrontational. For some people if you call them on
their stuff
INTERVIEWER: If they were like face-to-face you might appear angry to them or
something like that?
PARTICIPANT #19: Or they would be uncomfortable with it, embarrassed or
something. And I feel like with the distance that its safer.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think maybe they wouldnt show up because they were so
uncomfortable if they had to come down here?
PARTICIPANT #19: At times I think so. But they also sometimes dont show up on the
phone for the same reason too. So I just think that the distance helps them feel like they
can open the closet doors easier and tell
INTERVIEWER: Is there something you think that suffers because youre not in the
room with them?
PARTICIPANT #19: No. I dont. I think a lot of people would like to be able to see us.
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INTERVIEWER: But if you had to do that, is there something youd do differently than
the way you do it now?
PARTICIPANT #19: I dont think so.
INTERVIEWER: If they were coming in to see you?
PARTICIPANT #19: I dont know. I would have to think about it and I dont have time
to think that much about it. Im being honest.
INTERVIEWER: Well, were down to the last question.
INTERVIEWER: I just want you to walk me through a typical coaching call.
PARTICIPANT #19: A typical coaching call.
INTERVIEWER: So you get them on the phone
PARTICIPANT #19: Coaching is like a box of chocolates. There is no typical. The first
thing I do when I get them on the phone after I say hello is that Im tuned in to how
they sound. I dont care what they say to me. I listen to how they sound. If theyre
harried, frantic, frazzled, depressed, up
INTERVIEWER: Whats usually the first topic of conversation?
PARTICIPANT #19: It depends on where they are. Sometimes its, I havent done
anything I told you I was going to do.
INTERVIEWER: Thats the first thing out of their mouth?
PARTICIPANT #19: I coached.
INTERVIEWER: No chit chat, nothing, just right down to business?
PARTICIPANT #19: I didnt do my stuff. A lot of times its, Hi. So I say, Whats
going on?
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INTERVIEWER: So you know right away with the heavy sighing?
PARTICIPANT #19: Instantly. Because that rapport in the relationship is critical to how
I coach. And if there is something going on, what we talked about, our action steps, what
was important to us, if theres something essential going on, thats this huge elephant in
the carpet. For me to go and talk about
INTERVIEWER: So a lot of times they get you going right off the bat on what youll be
talking about for the next half hour?
PARTICIPANT #19: I always touch on business. I dont just hang up without touching
on that because whatevers going on in their world
INTERVIEWER: So they might say, My dog just died, right out of the gate. Then
youre going to try to move them over in the middle of the call to talk about business a
little bit.
PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. The goal is always that we get some of that. I mean if
somebody is wrecked we talk about how were rejuvenating, what can we do, and in the
meantime, because eating with your meals is important, and right now, with whats going
on particularly in todays world, people need a lot of support.
INTERVIEWER: Eating with your meals?
PARTICIPANT #19: Is important. Food with your meals is important and if you are so
devastated by your dog dying or the tragedies going on around you with your friends, and
I have a lot of that going on right now, that its getting in the way of you doing your
business, your business starts dying and then you really are spiraling down and cant get
out of it.
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INTERVIEWER: So you try to hit the business a little bit. Then how do you wrap up
the call?
PARTICIPANT #19: I always try to wrap up the call with what theyre going to do, what
I expect from them.
INTERVIEWER: Just about everybody who has come in here has said that.
PARTICIPANT #19: Always. But when were talking about it, during our conversation,
I go, You know, you really need to do this. I immediately make notes, while Im
typing, heres an action step, I dont say that at the time, but I make it an action step.
And in wrapping up the call Ill say, Heres what I heard you say is important for you to
do. So heres your first action step. Have you got this? And I get their
INTERVIEWER: Are there usually a set number of action steps?
PARTICIPANT #19: Our average target is three.
INTERVIEWER: Is that something youre trained to do here?
PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. Thats the trend that the boss expects. But it depends on if
its a big thing. It cant be more than that. And if its several little things that are
connected, then it is more than that. But for me they always have to have buy-in. I dont
just set it. And when theyre brand new to business or brand new to coaching, I tell them
up front, Initially, Im going to set your action steps for you and as you will learn the
reason and the trust behind it, youll get to the whys of it and then youll be involved.
So initially when theyre new, I do it first. But if I hear them say, This is really
important. Ive got to do this thing for my daughters graduation, Then I incorporate
what Im hearing too.
INTERVIEWER: So starting off youre more involved in setting their goals.
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PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. Their action steps.
INTERVIEWER: But thats tied to their goals, right?
PARTICIPANT #19: Yes. But as I said, I dont set their goals, I set their action steps.
INTERVIEWER: So you do your best to figure out what their goals are.
INTERVIEWER: So initially you will help them set the steps that are going to get them
to the goal and then you get them to the point where they set their own action steps,
right?
PARTICIPANT #19: Well we do it together. So they have to have buy-in. If they dont
have buy-in, if they dont do them, they never have
INTERVIEWER: So youre always conscious of that buy-in factor?
PARTICIPANT #19: Always. Thats when they feel theyve had a success.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Weve got you out of here.
PARTICIPANT #20
INTERVIEWER: What is your definition of coaching? Were not talking about specific
to this, just a general definition of coaching.
PARTICIPANT #20: For me, its just definitely instructing, guiding, and directing
people on the way that they want to go.
INTERVIEWER: When you say instructing that implies teaching to me which is more
like the Charlie Brown Trombone death by Power Point thing, so coaching isnt really
like that is it?
PARTICIPANT #20: Well, we do instruct them in a way. Its more instructing in a way
that will get them to understand whatever the concepts are that were coaching them on.
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In our particular company, obviously, its instructing them on how to work by referral.
They think that theyve got it at first, but they dont really have it.
INTERVIEWER: So there is some pedagogy involved, I mean, youve got to learn
youre ABCs of referral.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. Its just like anything else, and in my opinion until you
experience something, until you actually do it, they might think they have it in their head,
but the dont really have it until they actually do it and do it consistently. They think, Oh,
I did a call, I did a note, or I did a pop eye, Im good to go! Well, no youre not. You
dont really get it. I could probably give you some examples of that.
INTERVIEWER: Well get into that.
PARTICIPANT #20: Okay. Of course Im doing the Working by Referral coaching, but
in general, as far as coaching, if youre talking about that more, like if you take away this
part, I would say its getting someone from where they are to where they want to be and
helping them step-by-step get from where they are to where they want to be.
INTERVIEWER: So you use the word guiding and thats a big word because youre
not like telling them where to go. Youre kind of nudging them.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes. I believe most people already have the answers inside of
them. Its just a matter of drawing those things out. I mean, you know how to get there.
A lot of times, I think its our fears that keep us from getting from where we are to where
we want to go. We need somebody to champion and thats probably one of the things
too. We champion people to get from where they are to where they want to be, because
they cant see their own stuff, as far as whether it be good or bad. They have some things
they cant see that are negative and some things that are outstanding.
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INTERVIEWER: Youre in an outside observer kind of role.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, yeah, and theyre brilliant. Of course, the Heritage Profile
helps us in that, you know, finding where their strengths are. And there are other skills
that theyve developed also that they dont see, so thats kind of neat.
INTERVIEWER: Do you feel that if you were like teaching somebody and your job was
as a realtor/teacher, would that be different than being their coach?
PARTICIPANT #20: If I was already a realtor type of teacher? Yes, it would be
different because I would have probably more preconceived notions than the way that I
came into this company. So youre correct. I would probably try to have them do it m
ore the way that I did it rather than the training that Ive received here; not only the
training that Ive received here but also the successes Ive seen in some of my other
clients and how theyve gotten to be successful.
INTERVIEWER: So you use a lot of the stuff you see other people use. And if you were
a teacher, youd be kind of sticking to the script more, right?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. Id probably be sticking to the script, but I think Id try to
take a combination of the training I get and then what I see from my clients who are
successful.
INTERVIEWER: At this point, it would be hard for you to be a teacher and not use the
coaching skills.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes, that would be difficult.
INTERVIEWER: Now we want to define business, we used to call them executive
coaches here but now we call them business coaches. We want to define that now.
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PARTICIPANT #20: Okay. Business coaching, in my opinion, is taking them from
survival to stability, stability to success, success to significance in their actual business.
Weve got these Five Circle goals but were being more specific in terms of the business
as far as making them more profitable and just making sure that were helping them
increase their business and the results in their business by working by referral and helping
them along with that; helping them to be more profitable in their business. So the three
main things that we look to do always, with realtors at least, is to increase their average
sales amount, increase their transactions, and decrease their expenses. Those are the
three things that we
INTERVIEWER: So any business you were in youd still use those three concepts?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes, income minus expenses equals profit.
INTERVIEWER: Thats a pretty simple formula there.
INTERVIEWER: So did you have some preparation to be a business coach.
PARTICIPANT #20: You know what, I dont know that I would say specifically I did. I
had some sales experience.
INTERVIEWER: But you had some real estate experience too?
PARTICIPANT #20: No. I had never been in real estate.
INTERVIEWER: So you say youd show them things you had used as a salesman?
PARTICIPANT #20: As a sales person. I have a marketing degree from college and Ive
also been a sales person.
INTERVIEWER: Thats some preparation.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. But I was never in real estate before.
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INTERVIEWER: So now I want you to describe the coaching process.
PARTICIPANT #20: Okay. Like with an individual client?
INTERVIEWER: Like when you get a client and you have them over a span of months
or years, but theres a process you use, right?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes. There is definitely a process. A lot of time, when were
talking to people they have, typically our clients in particular, to get specific, a lot of
them are free-spirited and theyre very relational; so they will fight the system at first.
But, in general, I find that most of my clients have a couple of things going on.
INTERVIEWER: So are you saying relational as opposed to pragmatic?
PARTICIPANT #20: No relational as opposed to, you know there are some people that
maybe should be engineers and shouldnt be around people, but most people in real estate
are very relational and they love talking to people and helping people. Thats the
common denominator. So I would say, you know, a lot of the issues are in regards to
time management and so for people who are very reactive in their business, I usually try
to transform them into being proactive instead of reactive. Thats usually one of the
number one things that I find. You know, a lot of people have very much a all or
nothing attitude, thinking theyve got to do it all today and they try to do shortcuts and
we try to get them to go one step at a time, by doing a budget. You know, a lot of people
dont have a budget already, so well have them do a budget. Well get them started with
little baby steps and then eventually we can take those bigger steps with them. Its one
step at a time to get them there.
INTERVIEWER: Thats a good point. So one of the things I want to find out is about
your experiences coaching. Tell me some fishing stories about coaching.
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PARTICIPANT #20: You know its kind of interesting, were supposed to resign people
once a year and in resigning them once-a-year, we have to make sure that we show them
theyre getting results. And what I was saying before that people think theyve got it and
are ready, but they dont really have it. I had a client one time who, about ten months
into coaching, told me, You know what Darrin, Im probably not going to renew when
my coaching comes up at the year mark. I said, You know, thats too bad. I wish you
would have worked the system a little bit earlier. He said, Well, you know, I feel like I
have. He hadnt and I knew he hadnt. I challenged him on that day to start really
digging in and to finally do it. I said, Then if you have to go, you have to go. Well, he
started working at it and you know how we say the way youre doing your business today
affects your business 90 days from now. Well, he finally started working it and he did
not resign when it came to the year mark.
INTERVIEWER: So that was 60 days out?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, that was 60 days out. And I was like, You havent really
worked it. You might think you did, but you didnt. He called me a month later and he
said, You know, Darrin, Ive got to apologize. You were right. I was thinking it in my
head all the time, but I wasnt actually doing and working the system. Then he goes,
Will you take me back? And I said, Heck no. Ill never take you. No Im just
kidding! So I took him back and we ended up having a good relationship after that. I
think in coaching if people will actually work, whatever theyre setting out to do, if its
been proven that it works, it will work. Its just a matter of them working that system,
whatever system that is, and not expecting us to wave a magic wand.
INTERVIEWER: But its hard to get them to drink the Kool-Aid?
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PARTICIPANT #20: Exactly. Well its a relationship and it takes work. In real estate it
rewards action. Youve got to have contact with your people. Otherwise, you cant think
you know it all in your head but not actually be doing it. That doesnt make any sense.
INTERVIEWER: Weve kind of been talking about this, but tell me some things that
work well when youre coaching.
PARTICIPANT #20: That work well?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
PARTICIPANT #20: I think one of the things that has really worked well, you know
theres this big word of accountability in coaching, you know, keeping people
accountable, and I think one of the things that has worked well for me, and its kind of
fun, is having rewards and consequences for people; a reward if, okay, were going to
have a call in a couple of weeks. Here are our action steps. Okay, if you get this done,
how are you going to reward yourself? It might be a massage, a round of golf, or maybe
its just going to have an ice cream or something like that. So there are smaller rewards
and then bigger rewards if they do, for instance, I had a client if he did all of his action
steps for that month as far as his proactive activities, he got to go on a week-end fishing
trip. Well that motivated him, because if he didnt complete all of it, he didnt get to go
on that week-end fishing trip. And then there are consequences in terms of, Ive had
consequences like Ill have a couple of people be accountability partners and if they dont
do their activities, they have to pay a dollar for each call that they dont do, or per note, or
$5.00 for every pop eye, theyll have to pay to the other person.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, they do it as partners?
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PARTICIPANT #20: Yes, they do it as partners. Ill set them up as accountability
partners. The other thing that has worked is maybe being required to give to a charity
that you cant stand. The consequence needs to sting because if it doesnt sting youre
probably not going to do it. If youre giving it to a charity that you like at least you feel
good about it. Ive tried those. Those different things have worked, as far as the
accountability having rewards and consequences.
INTERVIEWER: So youve been doing this for awhile?
PARTICIPANT #20: Almost six years.
INTERVIEWER: So I started teaching a few years ago and I got some training and had
some lofty ideas about what would work and I got my ass kicked. Have you had
something like that happen?
PARTICIPANT #20: Oh gosh. Probably the biggest ass-kicking I got was at the
beginning of my coaching. Because I am relational and I tend to be a little more like, Ill
share certain things. One of the things youve got to remember is that whoever youre
coaching youve got to meet them where they are, and that also includes their culture. So
I was coaching somebody who in their culture was very private. I had heard he was
going through some difficult times and it was similar to some difficult times I had been
going through, so I tried to help him through with those things. And they were a little
outside of the business realm. I was trying to help him with those things. This was one
of my very first clients. My intentions were good, but
INTERVIEWER: But you werent sensitive to his culture?
PARTICIPANT #20: I wasnt sensitive to his culture and how private they are. So that
really turned him off and he ended up transferring to somebody else. So that was one of
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my big ah ha moments when I realized that I had to make sure I was meeting people
where they were, not just where I was coming from.
INTERVIEWER: So outside of the culturally sensitive thing, youve been able to use
that with just about everybody?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes. And thats why the profile is so great as far as in our
coaching and I think thats a huge advantage for us to know
INTERVIEWER: So you started leaning on the Heritage Profile a lot more?
PARTICIPANT #20: Oh yeah. Ive seen that it works.
INTERVIEWER: Did you get any formal or coach-specific education to prepare to be a
business coach?
PARTICIPANT #20: Most of the training has been here. Ever since I got hired, right
away, they threw us in and its like a fire hose. Were just going out there as far as the
training.
INTERVIEWER: Thats what somebody else said too.
PARTICIPANT #20: Is that right?
INTERVIEWER: Most of the formal training.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, you jump right in. I think I had, even before I got to start on
a coaching call, it was like four to six weeks of training before I even got to start on a
coaching call and just kind of listened to other coaches too.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, Ive heard that theyve had trouble with people who had
training before they came here.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. Im sure.
INTERVIEWER: Theyre locked into like a coaching call.
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PARTICIPANT #20: And thats like with a realtor. Some realtors have preconceived
ideas before they come in here of traditional ways of doing real estate and that type of
thing and thats just not how we do it here.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have other less formal training?
PARTICIPANT #20: Ive had a lot of sales training.
INTERVIEWER: And the marketing degree.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, and the marketing degree. So Ive had plenty of sales
training which has actually helped me in this also.
INTERVIEWER: So talking about all of this training. Is there something about that
which prepared you to do this job?
PARTICIPANT #20: In terms of all the training, I would say its been a culmination, just
as a general overview because weve had so much training, but I would say its been a
combination of how to work by referral and really teaching people the ins and outs.
INTERVIEWER: So thats the pedagogy of this specific
PARTICIPANT #20: Exactly. And the Heritage training has been huge also.
INTERVIEWER: So this is specifically about knowing the people you are coaching?
PARTICIPANT #20: Absolutely. Yeah. Is that all they are? No, thats not all they are.
They are more than those things and we get to know them.
INTERVIEWER: And these are things they wouldnt necessarily tell you in the coaching
call. You just have to know
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, people leak who they are. If youre asking good questions
of people, they will leak who they are.
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INTERVIEWER: But youve got a pretty good idea of who they are from that profile,
huh?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, a pretty dang good idea.
INTERVIEWER: So tell me how you get your clients involved in setting their goals?
PARTICIPANT #20: You know, a lot of that has to do with, a lot of them are not used to
setting their goals. I dont know if youve heard there was a statistic in 1953, a Princeton
University study, a poll showed that only two or three of them wrote goals and some
years later, perhaps 30 years, basically 2 to 3% of that class ended up making more than
all of the rest in the class combined because they wrote goals, and Ill tell my clients a
story like that. I have it written down somewhere thats why I dont memorize it.
INTERVIEWER: One thing Ive found out is that if youre trying to lose weight, the
best way to lose weight is just to weigh yourself every day so then you know, a pound at
a time, a pound at a time. So with the weight, if you set a goal, itll be lower tomorrow
than it was today.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. And some people need more help with the goal-writing. So
Ill do a conference call on setting short, mid- and long-term goals. Some people are
good at setting really long goals, some at setting short goals and they struggle with the
longer goals. My profile falls kind of in between so I can usually put it out of them.
INTERVIEWER: Lets say you have somebody who just does not want to set goals,.
How do you deal with them?
PARTICIPANT #20: Sometimes theyll just ask me. The best coaching sometimes is
just asking questions. So I might ask them a question like, Tell me something you liked
to do when you were a kid. Some people have lost who they are as far as who they were
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when they were a kid. For instance, I used to like to play basketball and sports. And
some people have gotten so busy as far as work, work, work that theyve lost the having
fun part of life. So Ill just kind of ask them those things. Maybe they like to go on hikes
or something like that. So maybe well get them in a hiking club or something like that.
Weve got to get them reengaged. Being out in nature and the beauty might be one
personal goal. Maybe we ask them what is important to them, what are their priorities,
what are their values. And it might be their family. Maybe they havent had a date night
consistently with her for awhile. Or maybe they havent had a vacation for awhile. So Ill
ask them to tell me about the last vacation they had.
INTERVIEWER: So youre leveraging things away from work just to get them doing
some fun stuff.
INTERVIEWER: And that kind of lightens them up a little bit and gets them more
engaged in the work.
PARTICIPANT #20: Absolutely. Most human beings need balance. Youve to have
balance. If you dont have balance, youre out of balance, and thats when people
become burnt out. We see many people burnt out. And its just go, go, go, go. Real
estate is a very perpetual environment and actually our world is very go, go, go; people
think that business equals success and its not really true. You know, its being
productive with your time whether that be in the business or any other circle, its being
successful with your time.
INTERVIEWER: So lets say you have a client who sets a lot of goals. Do you think
that that impacts their success?
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INTERVIEWER: Could you elaborate?
PARTICIPANT #20: As long as, Ive had some clients who set goals, they go to the
Turning Points, they get all excited and everything like that and then they dont look at
them again.
INTERVIEWER: We need to say what Turning Point is. Its these events that you go to.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes. Its basically going to seminars that are put on by the boss,
kind of motivational type seminars for the business. We also have personal growth
seminars too and so thats what those are. Anyway, theyll go to these events and get all
excited and then theres this thing called the law of diminishing intent where theyll have
the best of intentions but over time it just goes down and down and down.
INTERVIEWER: Is that something the boss coined?
PARTICIPANT #20: I remember someone else talking about it. So I dont know if it
was the boss, Basically, thats why were there as a coach, to keep holding them up to
what they wanted to do. So they need to be reviewing their goals. I have my clients
review their goals at least once a week and visualize that goal already happening and
really, to be honest with you, its a matter of going from the general to the specific in
their goals as far as making sure they make them real and put them in their schedule.
Even if theyre little tiny things like wanting to take a vacation.. Well, this week Im
going to call the travel agent or this week Im going to do some research on that. Thats
one thing down before youve paid for the trip. So there are these different steps within
the goals that theyre taking each week to be intentional about them.
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INTERVIEWER: So if they just wont set the goals and you have to set the goals for
them, how do you determine those goals? Or do you ever do that?
PARTICIPANT #20: Well I really, really need their business goals, Im a business
coach, so I really, really do need to get after them in terms of what their business goals
are, how many closed transactions they want to do.
INTERVIEWER: So how do you drag that out of them?
PARTICIPANT #20: Well sometimes there are different angles for that. Some people
are like, Im afraid. And some people shoot too high, some people shoot too low, so
what I do is Ill have them fill out a net income work sheet in terms of what their
expenses are and how much they need to be making and then as a result of that we can
put in there based on their average sales price, the transactions we can figure out that
way.
INTERVIEWER: You just drill down to how many houses they need to sell.
PARTICIPANT #20: Exactly, especially if they want to support a family or support
themselves they need to make money. So thats where it starts.
INTERVIEWER: So if thats an unreasonable number, then they need to lower those
expenses.
PARTICIPANT #20: Right and once they see how many transactions they need to do in
order to get to those transactions, sometimes they are hesitant to do that too. So we make
sure that were on the same page as far as that.
INTERVIEWER: Lets talk about teaching the clients as opposed to coaching. Goalsetting is one of the things we used to teach them. But is there something else you do to
teach them?
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PARTICIPANT #20: Ill teach them as far as working by referral?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, or just business in general.
PARTICIPANT #20: You know, Ive found that probably the best teaching I can give
them is experientially, you know, because what we do, we have a coaching manual and
they can read the coaching manual. They can read what a call is, what note is, what a pop
eye is, so for me, the ones that they really appreciate that Im teaching them on is really
experientially.
INTERVIEWER: So youre getting them to tell stories about when theyre doing these
three things.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. Ive got a guy who was reluctant to do pop eyes before and
I got him during Halloween time to finally get these pumpkins and take them to people,
drop them off at their door, and tell them he was just checking in to see how they were
doing and wanted give them a little something. Hes not a flashy guy at all. In fact, he
felt silly doing it and he was resistant to doing it, but he did it anyway.
INTERVIEWER: And he got a bunch of sales?
PARTICIPANT #20: He got a bunch of referrals. He called me, hes from Texas, and he
goes, Darrin, I delivered them pumpkins. And I go, Really? And he says, And
people like them. And I go, You dont say. This same guy ends up becoming the
mayor of this really small town in Texas because
INTERVIEWER: Just from the pumpkins?
PARTICIPANT #20: Hes not flashy but he did his calls, he did his notes, and he did his
pop eyes and he got to be mayor of the 2,000 person town in Texas.
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INTERVIEWER: So the situation we have here, the clients arent coming in here and
talking to you in person, and we call that a distance-learning environment. Youre using
the telephone and the Internet.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. We meet them sometimes at events but rarely.
INTERVIEWER: So because its a distance environment, could you describe how that
would differ if they were coming in the door here?
PARTICIPANT #20: I think in terms of the communication, I cant remember what
percentage of communication is verbal versus the body language and all that type of
thing. So I think it would be a little bit different if we could see them face-to-face as
opposed to over the phone so it does make it a little more challenging. On the other hand,
some people dont want to see your face, you know. They want to hear that voice and
they dont want to get too relational or too personal with you. As a business coach, we
really shouldnt be too much their friend because if you become too friendly with them
its a little more difficult to keep them accountable because theyll try to deflect maybe
doing their action steps and that type of thing.
INTERVIEWER: Youre getting involved with some real personal stuff with a lot of
these folks and so its easier for them to tell the 900 number their problems than to tell
somebody theyre actually looking at.
PARTICIPANT #20: Absolutely. People are not robots so youve got to make sure,
even though were trying to teach them the same thing as far as working by referral and
living the good life, not everybody is the same. Everybody has their own unique style
and the way that they do things; so, to that end, yeah.
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INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else that is improved because youre at a distance
with these folks that you can think of?
PARTICIPANT #20: Well yeah, I think being an outside third party perspective, a lot of
times people that are in the midst of it, they tend to be doing the same things in the office,
and being from the outside, we get to hear nationally what people are doing, so there may
be an idea out there that nobody is using in their certain market. You know, this has
happened to me many times.
INTERVIEWER: So you are able to touch all these different markets.
INTERVIEWER: Instead of if all your clients were from right here.
PARTICIPANT #20: And the best ideas are stolen a lot of times, so thats a lot of time
when they become more successful.
INTERVIEWER: This is a really good point. Is there something that suffers other than
not being able to read the body language?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah. I would say to a certain degree there is something about
looking a person eye-to-eye and being able to say, Look, you need to get this done.
INTERVIEWER: But other than that, is there something that suffers because youre at a
distance?
PARTICIPANT #20: No. I cant think of too much other than some people just prefer to
be face-to-face with someone when theyre in a coaching relationship.
INTERVIEWER: So if they were coming in here face-to-face is there something youd
do differently?
516
PARTICIPANT #20: Well, I would be very cognizant of my body language when Im
talking to them. There might be times when were on the phone when we might make a
face like, What are you talking about?
INTERVIEWER: You didnt give away that tale?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, exactly. And you can get away with that on the phone
whereas, when youre in person, then youve got to really watch how youre looking at
them, making sure youre paying attention to them, so that they see youre looking eyeto-eye and that youre truly interested in them too. I think it makes it harder to, I wont
say fake it, but you need to be fully engaged.
INTERVIEWER: You need to manage your reactions?
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah and you really need to be fully engaged in-person; you need
to be on the phone also, but even more so when youre face-to-face.
INTERVIEWER: So if you had them here in person, is there something you think would
go down better than with the distance thing?
PARTICIPANT #20: Well if I had them in person, if I could actually go along on a ride
with them or something like that, if we could practice the dialogues together or go on a
ride together, that would be kind of neat. Even if I could go to their market place, go on a
ride-along, and be able to see them in action, i.e., what are they saying to their clients?
They can tell us as much as they want to tell us but until we can hear them on the phone,
you know
INTERVIEWER: Somebody else mentioned maybe having a camera and like filming
them.
517
PARTICIPANT #20: Exactly. That might be something, because again with them and
their clients, its not just how they show up on their dialogue but its how theyre
dressing, what is their appearance, are they professional in the way that they approach
things from start to finish, because its their character and their competence thats going
to show up every day with their clients. And then we can see some of that, but we cant
see 100% of it.
INTERVIEWER: I still think thats something you could do here. You could like throw
a camera into the box that you send them and say Hey, tape the next open house you go
to.
PARTICIPANT #20: You absolutely could, like, Tape the next pop eye you do.
INTERVIEWER: Is there some special technique other than the ones weve talked about
that you use because youre over the phone and using the Internet, e-mail and stuff?
PARTICIPANT #20: Well, you know what, one of the techniques that at first I didnt
use as much as I do now is just the technique of silence. You know, if they did not do
their activities, sometimes a little bit of them feeling uncomfortable is okay. So if I ask
them how they did this week on their activities and they say they were so busy they
werent able to get the things done, sometimes Ill leave a little bit of silence or say, Is
that alright with you?
INTERVIEWER: So you might not leave as much dead air if you were there person-toperson.
PARTICIPANT #20: Maybe not or maybe it wouldnt be as effective.
INTERVIEWER: But having them on the phone
518
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, sometimes there are different types of things you can use or
voice inflections that you use; sometimes its even humor. You know, I dont want to
have to fire you as a client, so you better get going on these activities or else Im going to
have to send you to the dungeon or to somebody else. And they get it. Thats kind of
what I use because I am relational in my coaching; however, at the same time, I have a
champion in me and failure is not an option with me, and I tell them that.
INTERVIEWER: So if you were in person and you said something like that they might
take it a little more seriously.
PARTICIPANT #20: They might. But Ive gotten away with some stuff. Ive used
some quotes and one of the quotes I use depending on which client it is, Ill say, You
know, winners make things happen, losers let things happen. So what are you going to
be this week? I think youre a winner. Are you going to make things happen or are you
going to let things happen? Because there is a lot of apathy in real estate and people are
like, Oh, I hope things change. No, you need to be the one that makes things change.
You need to be out there contacting your clients. Dont expect people to come to you.
Thats what a lot of people want and thats just not the way it works. People are busy and
they need them to give value to their lives. Its like, you know, Why should I work with
you? I think its them meeting their clients where they are will help them to do that.
Getting involved and asking their clients things like, you know, What kinds of hobbies
are you into? You know, getting involved in their lives so that they can ask them
follow-up questions on those things. You know, if theyre into tennis, get them a can of
tennis balls or if theyre into playing guitar give them a set of guitar strings. That shows
519
their character and that theyre really listening to them and theyre not just another
number and that type of thing.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me what a typical coaching call is like.
PARTICIPANT #20: A typical coaching call at the very beginning is kind of like, Hey,
how are you doing? That kind of thing.
INTERVIEWER: Making them comfortable.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, conversation, and they usually will tell us whats going on.
Im busy, Im so busy. Thats probably the number one answer I get.
INTERVIEWER: So theyre trying to give you the excuses, right?
PARTICIPANT #20: Kind of, theyre deflecting right away and thats great. I tell them
sometimes thats the number one answer I get from people; its just that some people find
a way to fit things in. Well go over the last coaching call. Ill tell them that back on June
4th, this is what we talked about and here were your action steps.
INTERVIEWER: So youre immediately trying to get them away from the excuses.
PARTICIPANT #20: Well you know, Ill hear them out. If they have legitimate
concerns a lot of times well address them right from the beginning. But if theyre just
kind of like waiting for me to lead, and I will lead the conversation, but I want to give
them their say-so first. I want them to feel heard and validated. Then well get into what
we talked about on the last call, the action steps one at a time from the last call, and then
also well get into the web site and see how their transactions are. Then, you know,
depending on what theyre dealing with, itll be different from time to time as far as the
last of the call is concerned.
520
INTERVIEWER: So throughout this call, youve got that Heritage Profile out and
youve got the web site up so you can look at their stats.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, I make sure theyve got their coaching manual in case
theres anything we need to be coaching them on in the coaching manual or readdressing.
People generally dont see the value in things until they really experience it. For
instance, we teach time management and thats at the back of the coaching manual.
Some people will be very resistant to something like call-blocking. Hi this is Darrin, in
order to serve you better Ill be returning my calls from 11 to 12 and 3 to 4 today. They
will resist that at first because they feel like, Oh people cant get hold of me 24/7 type of
thing. But after awhile when they see theyre burnt out or theyre going crazy or theyre
being so reactive in their business, theyll finally say, Youre right. I should have put
this in a long time ago. Im going to start putting this on my voice mail to start callblocking. So thats a specific example of something they might fight at first but once
they see the value in it, then theyll get around to doing it.
INTERVIEWER: So you start out by breaking the ice, then youre kind of drilling down
to looking at the stats and how they did. How do you end the thing up?
PARTICIPANT #20: Again, we end it with looking on the web site, were looking at
their transactions, their proactive activities and their Five Circle goals. So we start with
the business and then, then we like to get into how theyre doing in their other circles as
well. At the end of the call
INTERVIEWER: So youre ending it up with the more personal stuff thats in their
PARTICIPANT #20: Not necessarily. That might be part of the call but were usually
ending with action steps, you know, first and foremost in the business circle.
521
INTERVIEWER: So youll look at all five of the Five Circle goals but youll end up
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes, but its primarily around the Business Circle.
INTERVIEWER: Then at the end, youre going to end the call with, Well this is what
were going to do next week.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yes. Thats right and I really try to get them to buy into their
action steps because the action steps are not just to give them action steps, they are to
move them closer to their goals. So theres some selling involved as far as convincing
them of why it is important to do it. Then a lot of times on the action steps, not only will
I give them the action steps, but if they havent done the action steps from the last time,
well have to get more specific as far as exactly when theyre going to do those activities.
For instance Ill say, When are you going to do those? Thursday, Ill do them
Thursday. Theyll try to say by the next coaching call and I dont accept that. I let them
know theyve got to be a little more specific this time. So Thursday at 3 oclock for an
hour Im going to do this type of thing. So if they dont do the action steps, a lot of times
its fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
INTERVIEWER: You cant get fooled (loud laughing) depending on who youre asking.
If youre asking George Bush its
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, so getting more specific
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well that went pretty good.
PARTICIPANT #20: Yeah, I appreciate it man.

The Inner Game: Coaching and Adult Education

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THE INNER GAME: BUSINESS COACHING AND ADULT EDUCATION IN A

A Dissertation Presented in Partial Fulfillment

2009 by LeRoy, R., Henry

Communication and contact

onsite instruction, residencies

Students may communicate by phone with

Students use e-mail to communicate with

Courseroom, chat rooms,

Students primarily communicate with

Figure 1. Distance-learning Model.

Achieving business goals

Focusing on business and financial aspect

Offering unique experiences every day

Focusing on maximizing the profits

Focusing on technique and fundamentals of

Creating balance between personal and business

Emphasizing the positive

Providing encouragement to clients

Transforming the clients to better individuals

Asking more questions

Following the progress of clients

Putting things in perspective

Addressing clients weaknesses

Thinking outside the box

Giving more than what is expected

Being too involved in clients personal lives

Overdoing the responsibilities

Being too strict or rigid

Not understanding clients profiles

Creating dependency on coaches and methods

Being too friendly

Giving information from unknown source

Making assumptions and judgments

Lacking communication with clients

Feeling nervous and uncomfortable with

Being reliable and supportive

Possessing interpersonal skills

Possessing listening skills

Having strong work ethic

Pursuing personal growth

Not being a struggling coach"

Possessing analytical skills

Being persuasive and firm

Leads to more concentration and less

Produces less biased feedback

Creates better disclosure from clients

Provides increase in coverage of clients

Provides access to other tools or resources

Results in more formal interactions

Turns coach to an authority figure

Effectiveness of visual coaching than verbal

Makes communication more strategic

Leads to better relationships with the clients

Prevents being too affected by clients

Difficulty in connecting with clients

Inability to supervise clients

Difficulty on explaining technical processes

Preference for face-to-face coaching

Possibility to become self-conscious

Need for more concentration

Managing the nature of the calls

Doing voice modulation

Focusing on positive things