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witness stand and the State may proceed.

MR. CAMPBELL:

Thank you, Judge.

IRENE LAU,

called as a witness on behalf of the People, being

first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

8
9
10

BY MR. CAMPBELL:
Q.

Ma'am, could you please state your name and

11

spell both your first and last name for the court

12

reporter?

13

A.

14

My name is Irene Lau.

That's spelled

I-r-e-n-e and the last name is L-a-u.

15

Q.

Miss Lau, how are you currently employed?

16

A.

I work for the Seattle Police Department.

17

Q.

And how long have you been employed in that

18

capacity?

19

A.

For 22 years.

20

Q.

What division within that capacity do you

21

work?

22

A.

Detectives.

23

Q.

Fair to say that you're a detective now?

24

A.

Yes.

88

1
2
3

4
5

Q.

What are your duties generally, ma'am,

as a

detective?
A.

Assist in various types of investigations,

different crimes.

Q.

If I could direct your attention to June

29th of 2011, were you employed and on duty on that

day with the Seattle Police Department?

A.

Yes,

Q.

On that day, ma'am,

I was.
on June 29,

2011,

10

detective,

11

an individual by the name of Jack McCullough?

did you have an opportunity to speak with

12

A.

Yes,

13

Q.

Do you recognize that person here in the

I did.

:."

14

courtroom today?

15

A.

Yes,

16

Q.

Could you point to him and describe an

17
18

article of clothing that he's wearing,

A.

glasses,

20

suit,

22
23
24

please?

The gentleman on the end with the eye

19

21

I do.

black -- well,

it appears to be a black

black striped tie.

THE COURT:

In-Court identification noted for

the record.
MR. CAMPBELL:
BY MR. CAMPBELL:

Thank you,

Judge.

89

Q.

You had an opportunity to actually interview

Mr. McCullough;

is that correct?

A.

That is correct.

Q.

Prior to the interview that you had with

Mr. McCullough in June of last year were you briefed

or were you informed as to what brought the

defendant to the Seattle Police Department?

A.

Yes,

Q.

What were you informed of his presence there

10
11

I was informed.

at the Seattle Police Department?

MR. McCULLOCH:

Judge,

I'm going to object.

12

think it calls for all sorts of responses,

13

which can be controlled by normal objections,

14

object to the form of the question.

15

THE COURT:

16

MR.

17

THE COURT:

18
19

BY MR.

Q.

none of

CAMPBELL:

Judge,

All right,

I'd withdraw the question.

thank you.

CAMPBELL:
On that day when you met with Mr. McCullough

could you describe his demeanor when you first

21

started speaking to him?

A.

so ltd

Response?

20

22

Mr. McCullough I would say was -- was not

23

very happy to be interviewed by me.

24

between rage and calm.

He alternated

He was pretty angry.

90

2
3
4

Q.

What,

if anything,

did you ask

Mr. McCullough that day about Maria Ridulph?

A.

I asked him if he knew her family,

what she

looked like.
Q.

And if we could just for a minute talk about

when you asked him about her specifically,

recall what he said?

do you

A.

Yes,

I do.

Q.

Could you tell the judge what you recall

10

Mr. McCullough saying on that day in regards to

11

Maria Ridulph?

12

A.

Well,

when he described her to me,

he

13

described her as being very stunningly beautiful

14

with big brown eyes and he stated that she was

15

"lovely,

16

Q.

lovely,

lovely".

Detective, when Mr. McCullough said those

17

words to you in regards to Maria Ridulph,

18

describe his demeanor as he was making those

19

statements to you?

20

A.

Well,

can you

he appeared to be discussing her as if

21

he was talking about someone he had been deeply,

22

deeply in love with.

23

24

MR. McCULLOCH:

Judge,

1 1 m going to object to

the characterization "as if".

91

THE COURT:

Sustained.

BY MR. CAMPBELL:

Q.

Detective, can you physically describe

Mr. McCullough as he's making -- I don't want to ask

you what you think or how he was feeling,

you describe yourself what you visibly observed

about Mr. McCullough as he made those statements?

8
9

A.

His entire face changed.

It softened and

his body had been quite rigidly stiff during the

10

interview but he had just totally relaxed at this

11

point.

12

Q.

Was this different demeanor than what you

13

had previously experienced in regards to talking to

14

Mr. McCullough that day?

15

A.

Yes.

16

MR. CAMPBELL:

17

THE COURT:

18

Any cross-examination, Mr. Carlson?

19

MR. CARLSON:

That's all I have,

21

Yes, Your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

22
23

24

BY MR. CARLSON:
Q.

Judge.

Thank you.

20

but could

Good afternoon, Miss Lau.

92

A.

Good afternoon, sir.

Q.

Am I pronouncing your name correctly?

A.

Yes.

Q.

When you were speaking with Jack McCullough,

he vehemently denied any involvement with the crime

of the abduction of Maria Ridulph; isn't that

correct?

9
10
11

12
13
14
15

MR. CAMPBELL:

Objection, Judge; beyond the

scope?
MR. CARLSON:

Judge, it's part of the

examination.
THE COURT:

Overruled.

BY MR. CARLSON:
Q.

He vehemently denied any involvement with

the crime; isn't that correct?

16

A.

That's correct.

17

Q.

And you were questioning him about the crime

18

involving Maria Ridulph; is that correct?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

You said his demeanor went from rage to

21

calm; is that correct?

22

A.

That's correct.

23

Q.

He was upset when he was vehemently denying

24

that he had done anything about involving Maria

93

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2

A.

That's correct.

Q.

SO when he was being accused of having any

involvement, he would become more upset; isn't that

correct?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And he was calmer when the questions were

not directed to his involvement; isn't that also

correct?

10

A.

I'm sorry.

11

Q.

He was more calm if the question directed to

Can you restate that again?

12

him at the time was not accusing him of having taken

13

part; isn't that also correct?

14

Ridulph's crime; isn't that correct?

A.

Well,

I asked him some other questions as

15

well that were not related to this where he got

16

angry.

17

Q.

I'm only asking about his demeanor at the

18

time of the questioning whether it was calmer when

19

he was not being accused in the questions being

20

asked?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

SO if one is alternating between rage and

23

calm, one's body posture changes when one is raging

24

as opposed to when one is calm; isn't that correct?

94

A.

Not always.

Q.

In your experience isn't that often the

case?

A.

Not always.

MR.

CARLSON:

THE COURT:

MR. CARLSON:

THE COURT:

Redirect?

10

May I have a moment,

Your Honor?

Sure.
Nothing further,

Your Honor.

Thank you.

MR. CAMPBELL:

Briefly,

Judge.

11
12

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

13
14
15

r"

BY MR. CAMPBELL:
Q.

Detective, the demeanor that Mr. McCullough

16

displayed to you when he was describing Maria

17

Ridulph during that conversation,

18

that same demeanor at any other time during the

19

conversation?

20

A.

21

MR. CAMPBELL:

22

THE COURT:

23

Recross?

24

MR. CARLSON:

did he display

No.
That's all I have,

Thank you.

No,

Your Honor.

Judge.

95

THE COURT:

1
2

Will either of the two parties be calling this

witness?

Oh,

THE COURT:

MR. McCULLOCH:

THE COURT:

11
12
13

THE COURT:
subpoena.

THE COURT:

19
20

Okay.

Table on my right.
Judge, we are done with Detective

Okay.

You're released from your

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

The State may call its

next witness.
MR. ESCARCIDA:

Judge, the People would call Pam

Long.
THE COURT:

Ma'am, if you'd like to come over

here in front of the clerk to be sworn.

21
22

Okay.

Thank you very much.

15

18

You said two parties.

Lau.

WITNESS:

17

Two tables.

MR. CAMPBELL:

14

16

No, no.

I see, us.

10

r'

You don't have her under subpoena, do you?

MR. McCULLOCH:

5
6

Thank you very much,

ma'am.

3
4

All right.

(Witness sworn.)
THE COURT:

Ma'am, if you'd like to come over to

23

this side here and have a seat in the witness chair

24

here.