S. HRG.

1111044

[ERRATA]
THE NOMINATION OF ELENA KAGAN TO BE
AN ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME
COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

HEARING
BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION

JUNE 2830, and JULY 1, 2010

Serial No. J11198

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

(
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON

67622 PDF

2012

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 5121800; DC area (202) 5121800
Fax: (202) 5122104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 204020001

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[ERRATA]
Delete Elena Kagan, Nominee to be Solicitor General, Department of Justice
Questionnaire, pages 379-424 (the Solicitor General questionnaire was inadvertently printed) and insert new Questionnaire.
Delete the Responses of Elena Kagan, Nominee to be Solicitor General, to
Questions submitted by Senators Leahy, Hatch, Grassley, Sessions, Cornyn
and Coburn; pages 425458 were inadvertently printed.
Insert the Responses to Questions to Witness, Lilly Ledbetter, submitted
by Senator Leahy.

(II)

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CONTENTS
STATEMENT OF THE NOMINEES
Kagan, Elena, Nominee to be an Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme
Court .....................................................................................................................
Questionnaire .................................................................................................... 1168
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Responses of Lilly Ledbetter, to Questions submitted by Senator Leahy ........... 1369

(III)

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1369
Questions and Answers
Written Questions of Chairman Patrick Leahy
for Witness Lilly Ledbetter
Hearing of Elena Kagan, Nominee to be Associate Justice of the U.S.
Supreme Court
Question:
After you concluded your testimony before Judiciary Committee, Ed Whelan testified and made a crude allegation. Mr. Whelan declared that you had waited more
than five years after [you] learned of the discrimination to file [your] EEOC charge.
Another witness invited to testify by the Ranking Member, Mr. Robert Alt, testified
that your case has been been singled out for special condemnation to tell the
story of a conservative activist, pro corporatist Roberts Court but he cautioned
that its just a story, and a fictional one at that.
For the record, please respond to these charges, specifically, the allegation that
you waited more than five years after having learned of the discrimination against
you to file your suit and whether your story is a fictional one.
Response:
Thank you for your letter giving me the chance to respond to some allegations
that were made against me by two of the witnesses who testified after me at the
hearings on Elena Kagans nomination to the Supreme Court. I thought the hearings were supposed to be about Solicitor General Kagans qualifications for the
Court. If Id known that Professor Alt and Mr. Wheelan were going to use the hearings to attack me personally, I would have stayed around so they could do it to my
face. I appreciate the chance to set the record straight.
Both gentlemen said that I conceded in my deposition that I knew about the violation of my legal rights five years before I complained to the EEOC. Thats a very
misleading statement. It is true, as Ive testified in Congress before, that for some
time I had suspected that I was getting paid less than the men. I knew, for example,
that my pay was below the midpoint in the salary range. But in a part of the deposition that maybe the witnesses didnt read, I also explained that when I told my
manager I thought I was getting paid less than my peers, he told me I was being
misled by the men exaggerating their pay. The truth is, I didnt have any solid evidence, only suspicions. But thats no basis for bringing a claim of discrimination
right away.
Instead of running to the EEOC without any hard evidence, I did what I think
most people would do (and what most employers would want their workers to do)
I asked my bosses what I could do to get my pay up. It was only when that didnt
work, and when I finally got that anonymous note in my mailbox showing me exactly how enormous the difference in pay was, that I had enough evidence that I
thought I was justified in going to EEOC.
Its also worth pointing out that at the trial, Goodyear never asked me about
when I first knew of the discrimination. Had they done that, I could have explained
things more fully and let the jury decide. But Goodyear didnt ask about it because
under its theory, it didnt matter. Under Goodyears theory, even if I had filed my
charge five years earlierlike Professor Alt and Mr. Whelan apparently think I
should haveit still would have been about ten years too late. Goodyear argued
that I was supposed to file the charge 180 days after each pay decision was made.
The Supreme Court agreed with them, and these witnesses seem to think the Court
got it right. So I dont know why they are talking about what I knew years and
years after the deadline supposedly passed.
Now Mr. Whelan says that the Supreme Courts decision isnt so bad because it
left open the possibility that a discovery rule might apply to make their nonsensical rule a little more reasonable. But from what I understand, it is not at all clear
that the Court would have recognized that kind of rule in the future. As you know,
Im not a lawyer. But Im told that the question came up in another case, National
Railroad Passenger Corporation v. Morgan. And in that case, Justices Kennedy and
Scalia specifically refused to sign on to a part of an opinion written by Justice
OConnor that recognized a discovery rule for the Title VII. I also understand that
in another case, TRW v. Andrews, Justice Scalia and Justice Thomas called the discovery rule a bad wine of recent vintage. So thats three of the five Justices in

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the majority in my case who dont seem anxious to apply a discovery rule in cases
like mine.
Finally, Im not sure that this discovery rule would be much better anyway. As
I understand it, the lower courts that have applied a discovery rule to Title VII
claims say that the time starts running from when you first discover what the employer didfor example, laying someone off, denying a promotion, or in my case, denying a pay raisenot from the time you discover that the reason for the action
was illegal discrimination. Thats no help at all. I obviously knew right away when
I was denied a raise. The problem is knowing that the decision is based on illegal
discrimination. And figuring that out takes time. You cant just assume the first
time you get a small raise, or are told what your starting salary is, that youre being
discriminated against. But when you keep getting smaller raises, and figure out how
exactly much less you are getting paid than others, the evidence starts to add up.
Thats what the Supreme Court didnt understand. And telling me that its all right
because someday the Court might adopt this useless discovery rule doesnt make it
any better.
Sincerely, Lilly Ledbetter

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