MartinHeidegger,"NurnocheinGottkannunsretten,"DerSpiegel30(Mai,1976):193219.

Trans.byW.Richardsonas"OnlyaGodCanSaveUs"in Heidegger:TheManandthe
Thinker(1981),ed.T.Sheehan,pp.4567.

"OnlyaGodCanSaveUs":TheSpiegelInterview(1966)
MartinHeidegger

AlthoughHeideggerwasoneoftheseminalthinkersofthetwentiethcentury,fewsuchmen
ofhistimewerecriticizedmoreseverelyorresentedmorebitterlythanhe.Muchofthis
criticismarosebecauseofanassociationwiththeNaziswhileRectoroftheUniversityof
Freiburg,193334,onethatpubliclyheneitherreputhated,justified,norexplained.In1966
theeditorsoftheGermannewsweekly,DerSpiegel,requestedofHeideggeraninterviewto
discusstheseissues.Ingrantingtheinterview,whichtookplaceonSeptember23,1966,
Heideggerinsistedthatitremainunpublishedduringhislifetime.(ItappearedinDerSpiegel
onMay31,1976,fivedaysafterhisdeath.)Itssubstancegoesfarbeyondthepersonalissues
involvedandrephraseshisentirephilosophicalexperience.Hesawthisasanopportunityto
meditate upon the meaning of Being, particularly under the guise that most profoundly
characterizes contemporary culture labeled by him "technicity" (die Technik). In these
termstheinterviewtakesonthequalityofalastwillandtestament.
InthetranslationwhichfollowsIhaveinsertedthepaginationoftheGermanpublication,Der
Spiegel,Nr.23(1976),193219,directlyintothetextinbrackets.Iwasassistedinhistorical
mattersbytheresearchesofDr.KurtMaieroftheLeoBaeckInstitute,NewYorkCity.
WilliamJ.Richardson,S.J.

[193]
SPIEGEL:ProfessorHeidegger,wehavenotedrepeatedlythatyourphilosophicalworkhas
beenovershadowedsomewhatby(certain]eventsofshortdurationinyourlifethatyounever
haveclarified.
Heidegger:Youmean1933?
SPIEGEL:Yes,[both]beforeandafter.Wewouldliketosetthisinalargercontextandthus

arrive at certain questions that seem to us important, namely: what possibilities does
philosophyofferforhavinganinfluenceuponactuality(Wirklichkeit)evenuponpoliticial
actuality?
Heidegger:Theseareindeedimportantquestions,whetherornotIcananswerthem.Butfirst
ImustsaythatbeforemyrectorateIwasinnowaypoliticallyactive. 1 Duringthewinter
semesterof193233Iwasonleaveandspentmostofthetimeinmymountainhut.2
SPIEGEL:Howdidithappen,then,thatyoubecameRectoroftheUniversityofFreiburg?
Heidegger:InDecember,1932,myneighbor,Professor(ofAnatomy)vonMllendorf,was
chosenRector.TheinstallationofthenewRectorheretakesplaceonApril15.Duringthe
wintersemesterof193233,wediscussedthe[current]situationoften,notonlythepolitical
one,butespeciallythatoftheuniversitiesandthepartiallyhopelesssituationofthestudents.
Myjudgmentwentlikethis:totheextentthatIcanjudgethings,theonlypossibilitystill
available[tous]istotrytoseizeupontheapproachingdevelopmentswiththoseconstructive
forcesthatstillremainalive.
SPIEGEL:Yousaw,then,arelationshipbetweenthepositionoftheGermanUniversityand
thepoliticalsituationofGermanyasawhole?
Heidegger:Tobesure,IdidfollowthepoliticaleventsofJanuaryMarch,1933,andalso
spokeaboutthemfromtimetotimewithyoungercolleagues.Myownwork,however,was
concernedwithamorecomprehensiveinterpretationof[196]preSocraticthought.Withthe
beginning of the summer semester I returned to Freiburg. 3 Meanwhile, Professor von
MllendorfhadassumedtheofficeasRectoronApril16.Hardlytwoweekslaterhewas
removedfromofficebythethenMinisterofCultureofBaden.Whatpresumablygavethe
desiredoccasionforthisdecisionoftheMinisterwasthefactthattheRectorhadforbidden
thesocalled"Jewishposter"tobedisplayedintheUniversity.4
SPIEGEL:Mr.vonMllendorfwasaSocialDemocrat.Whatdidhedoafterhisdismissal?5
Heidegger: On the very day of his dismissal, von Mllendorf came to me and said:
"Heidegger, now you must take over the rectorate." I protested that I had absolutely no
administrative experience. However, the ProRector at the time, Professor (of Theology)
Sauer,alsourgedmetobecomeacandidateinthenewelection,fortherewasarealdanger
thatotherwisea[mere]functionarywouldbenamedRector.Youngercolleagueswithwhom
for several years I had discussed questions of university management besieged me [with
requests]totakeovertherectorate.Ihesitatedalongtime.Finally,Ideclaredmyselfreadyto
takeovertheofficeonlyintheinterestsintheUniversity,providedIcouldbecertainofthe
unanimous support of the entire Academic Senate. Meantime, the doubts about my
qualificationsfortherectorateremained,sothatontheverymorningoftheelectionIwentto
theRector'sofficeandtoldthedismissedcolleague,vonMllendorf,andtheProRector,
Sauer, that I could not take over the office. Both replied that the election already had
proceededsofarthatatthatpointIcouldnolongerwithdrawfromthecandidacy.
SPIEGEL: And so you declared yourself definitively ready. What form, then did your
relationshiptotheNationalSocialiststake?

Heidegger:OntheseconddayafterItookofficethe"StudentLeader"andtwocompanions
appeared at my door and demanded once more that the "Jewish poster" be displayed. I
refused.Thethreestudentsleftwiththeremarkthatmyprohibitionwouldbemadeknownto
theStudentLeadershipDivisionofthegovernment.Severaldayslateratelephonecallcame
fromDr.Baumann,S.A.GroupLeaderintheofficeofHigherEducationoftheSupremeS.A.
Command.6Hedemandedthehangingoftheposterinquestion,asthisalreadyhadbeendone
inotheruniversities.ShouldIrefuse,Icouldexpectmyowndismissal,ifnot,indeed,the
closureoftheUniversity.ItriedtogainthesupportoftheMinisterofCultureofBadenfor
myprohibition.HeexplainedthathecoulddonothingagainsttheS.A.Nonetheless,Ididnot
retractmyprohibition.
SPIEGEL:Uptonow,thiswasnotknowninthatway.
Heidegger:Themotivethatabovealldeterminedmetotakeovertherectoratewasmentioned
alreadyinmyinaugurallectureatFreiburgin1929,"WhatisMetaphysics?" 7 Thefieldsof
sciences lie far apart. The manner of handling their objects is essentially different. This
disintegrated multiplicity of disciplines is held together today only through the technical
organizationofuniversitiesandfaculties,andthroughthepracticaldirectionofthedisciplines
according to a single orientation. At the same time, the rooting of the sciences in their
essentialgroundhasbecomedead."WhatIattemptedtododuringmyadministration,inview
ofthisconditionoftheuniversitiesinourowndaydegeneratedtotheextremeislaidout
inmyrectoraladdress.8
SPIEGEL:Wearetryingtofindoutwhether,andhow,thisstatementof1929coincideswith
whatyousaidinyourinauguraladdressasRectorin1933.Wetakehereonesentenceoutof
context:"Themuchcelebrated'academicfreedom'isrepudiatedbytheGermanuniversity;for
thisfreedomwasnotgenuine,insofarasitwasonly[a]negative[one]."Thereseemsgood
reasontoinferthatthisstatementattheveryleastgivesexpressiontocertainconceptionsthat
eventodayarenotforeigntoyou.
Heidegger:Yes,Iagree,forthisacademic"freedom"wasonlytoooftenanegativeone:
freedom fromtheefforttosurrenderoneselftowhatascientificstudydemandsintermsof
reflectionandmeditation.Moreover,thesentencethatyouhaveexcerptedoughtnottobe
takenalonebutreadinitscontext,forthenitbecomesclearwhatIwantedtohaveunderstood
by"negativefreedom."
SPIEGEL:Fine,thatisunderstandable.Butweseemtoperceiveanewtoneinyourrectoral
discourse,when,fourmonthsafterHitler'sdesignationasChancellor,youtheretalkaboutthe
"greatnessandgloryofthisnewera(Aufbruch)."
Heidegger:Yes,Iwasalsoconvincedofit.
SPIEGEL:Couldyouexplainthatalittlefurther?
Heidegger:Gladly.AtthattimeIsawnootheralternative.Amidthegeneralconfusionof
opinionandpoliticaltendenciesof22parties,itwasnecessarytofindanationaland,above
all,socialattitude,somewhatinthesenseofFriederichNaumann'sendeavor.Icouldcite,
here,simplybywayofexample,apassagefromEduardSprangerthatgoesfarbeyondmy
rectoraladdress.9

SPIEGEL:Whendidyoubegintobecomeinvolvedinpoliticalaffairs?The22partieswere
longsincethere.Alreadyin1930thereweremillionsofunemployed.
Heidegger: At that time I was still completely preoccupied with the questions that were
developedinBeingandTime(1927)10andthewritingsandlecturesofthefollowingyears
fundamentalquestionsofthoughtthattouchedalsonationalandsocialquestions[thoughnot
im]methately.Immediatelywhatfacedmeasauniversityprofessorwasthequestionabout
themeaningofthesciences,andwithitthedeterminationofthemissionoftheuniversity.
Thisconcernisexpressedinthetitleofmyrectoraldiscourse,"TheSelfAssertionofthe
GermanUniversity."Nootherrectoraldiscourseofthetimeboreatitleasaudaciousasthis.
Butwhoamongthosewhoattackthisdiscoursehasreaditcarefully,thoughtitthrough,and
interpreteditintermsofthesituationatthattime?
SPIEGEL:Selfassertionoftheuniversityinsuchaturbulentworldisn'tthatabitmuch?
Heidegger:Why?"TheSelfAssertionoftheUniversity"wentagainstthesocalled"political
science"thatatthattimewasalreadydemandedbythePartyandbytheNationalSocialist
StudentOrganization."Politicalscience"atthattimehadacompletelydifferentsense;itdid
notsignify"thescienceofpolitics"asweknowittoday,butmeant:scienceassuchits
meaningandvalueisappraisedaccordingtoitspracticalutilityforthepeople.Opposition
tothispoliticizingofscienceisdirecdyexpressedintherectoraldiscourse.
SPIEGEL:Letusmakesureweunderstandyoucorrectly:insofarasyouledtheUniversity
intowhatyouexperiencedatthattimeasanewera,youwantedtoaffirmtheUniversity
againstotherwiseoverwhelmingtendenciesthatnolongerwouldhavelefttotheUniversity
itsproperfunction?
Heidegger:Exactly.Butatthesametimetheselfassertionhadtoassumethetaskofwinning
backanewmeaningfortheUniversity,inoppositiontoitsmerelytechnicalorganization,
throughareflectionuponthetraditionofWesternEuropeanthought.
SPIEGEL:Shouldweunderstandthistomean,Professor,thatatthetimeyouthoughtthat
you could bring about the restitution of the University in conjunction with the National
Socialists?
Heidegger:Thatisthewrongwaytoputit.Not"inconjunctionwiththeNationalSocialists,"
buttheUniversityoughttorenewitselfthroughareflectionallitsownandtherebygaina
firm position against the danger of the politicizing of science in the sense that I just
mentioned.
SPIEGEL: And for that reason you proclaimed in your rectoral discourse these three
supportingcolumns:"servicebylabor,""serviceunderarms,""servicethroughknowledge."
Accordingly,"servicethroughknowledge,"orsoyouthoughtanyway,wastoberaisedtoa
positionequal[totheothers]thattheNationalSocialistshadnotconcededtoit?
Heidegger:Itisnotamatterof"supportingcolumns."Ifyouread[thetext]carefully,service
throughknowledgestandsinthirdplacenumerically,tobesure,butintermsofitsmeaningit
isplacedfirst.Thetaskremainstoconsiderhowlaborandthebearingofarms,likeevery
humanactivity,aregroundedinknowledgeandilluminedbyit.

SPIEGEL:Butwemustmentionhereanotherstatementwearesoonfinishedwiththese
distressingcitationsthatwecannotimagineyouwouldsubscribetotoday.Yousaidinthe
fallof1933:"LetnotdoctrinesandideasbetherulesofyourBeing.TheFhrer,himselfand
healone,istodayandforthefutureGermanactualityanditslaw."
Heidegger: These sentences do not appear in the rectoral discourse but only in a local
Freiburgstudentnewspaperatthebeginningofthewintersemesterof193334.WhenItook
overtherectorate,itwascleartomethatIwouldnotsurvivewithoutcompromises.The
sentencesyouquoteIwouldnolongerwritetoday.SuchthingsasthatIstoppedsayingby
1934.
SPIEGEL:Maywethrowinagainanotherquestion?Sofarinthisinterviewithasbecome
clearthatyourpositionin1933oscillatedbetweentwopoles.Inthefirstplace:Youhadto
saymanythingsadusumDelphini.11Thiswasonepole.Theotherpole,however,wasmuch
morepositive,andthisyouexpressasfollows:Ihadthefeelingthatherewassomething
novel,herewasanewera.
Heidegger:That'sitexactly.NotthatIspokeforthesakeofmereappearancesIsawthisas
theonepossibility.
SPIEGEL:Youknowthatinthiscontextseveralaccusationshavebeenmadeagainstyouthat
concernyourcooperationwiththeNaziPartyanditsorganizations,andthesestillpersistin
thepublicmindasundenied.Thus,youareaccusedofhavingtakenpartinthebookburnings
ofthestudentbody,oroftheHitlerYouth.
Heidegger:Iforbadetheplannedbookburningthatwasscheduledtotakeplaceinfrontofthe
Universitybuilding.
SPIEGEL:ThenyouareaccusedofhavingbooksofJewishauthorsremovedfromthelibrary
ofthe[199]UniversityorfromthePhilosophicalSeminar.12
Heidegger:AsDirectoroftheSeminar,IhadjurisdictiononlyovertheSeminarLibrary.Idid
notcomplywithrepeateddemandsthatthebooksofJewishauthorsberemoved.Former
participantsinmyseminarscantestifytodaytothefactthatnotonlywerenobooksofJewish
authorswithdrawnbutthattheseauthors,aboveall,Husserl,werecitedanddiscussedjustas
[theywere]before1933.
SPIEGEL:Howdoyouexplaintheoriginofsuchrumors?Isitmalice?
Heidegger:Accordingtomyknowledgeofthesources,Iwouldliketoassumethat,butthe
reasons for the calumny lie deeper. My taking over the rectorate was probably only the
occasionforit,notthedeterminingcause.Forthatreasonthepolemicprobablywillflareup
againandagainwhenevertheoccasionisoffered.
SPIEGEL:Even after 1933youhadJewishstudents.Yourrelationship tosome ofthese
Jewishstudentsissupposedtohavebeencordial.
Heidegger:Myattitudeafter1933remainedunchanged.Oneofmyoldestandmostgifted
students,HeleneWeiss,wholateremigratedtoScotland,tookherdegreeinBasel(after
continuedstudyatFreiburgbecameimpossible)withaworkonCausalityandChanceinthe

PhilosophyofAristotle (Basel,1942).Attheendoftheforeword,theauthorwrites:The
attemptataphenomenologicalinterpretationthatwepresenthereinPartIowesitspossibility
toM.Heidegger'sunpublishedinterpretationofGreekphilosophy."Youseehereacopywith
adedicationoftheauthor.IvisitedDr.WeissseveraltimesinBrusselsbeforeherdeath.
SPIEGEL:YouwerefriendlyforalongtimewithKarlJaspers.After1933,thisrelationship
begantodeteriorate.Rumorhasitthatthedeteriorationmustbeseeninconjunctionwiththe
factthatJaspershadaJewishwife.Wouldyouliketosaysomethingaboutthat?
Heidegger:MyfriendshipwithJaspersbeganin1919.Ivisitedhimandhiswifeduringthe
summersemesterof1933inHeidelberg.Hesentmeallhispublicationsbetween1934and
1938"withheartfeltgreetings."
SPIEGEL:YouwereastudentofEdmundHusserl,yourJewishpredecessorinthechairof
philosophyattheUniversityofFreiburg.HehadrecommendedyoutotheFacultyashis
successorinthatchair.Yourrelationshiptohimcannothavebeenwithoutgratitude.
Heidegger:Youknow,ofcourse,thededicationofBeingandTime.
SPIEGEL:Butlatertherelationshipdeteriorated.Canyou,anddoyouwantto,telluswhat
ledtothis?
Heidegger:Thedifferencesinmattersofsubstancebecamesharper.Inthebeginningofthe
1930'sHusserlhadapublicreckoningwithMaxSchelerandme,theexplicitnessofwhich
left little to the imagination. What moved Husserl to oppose my thought in such public
fashionIwasunabletolearn.
SPIEGEL:Whatwastheoccasionforthis?
Heidegger:HusserlspoketothestudentsintheBerlinSportspalast.ErichMhsamreportedit
inoneofthelargeBerlinnewspapers.13
SPIEGEL:Thecontroversyassuchisofnointeresttousatthemoment.Ofinterestonlyis
thattherewasnocontroversy[betweenyou]thathadanythingtodowiththeyear1933.
Heidegger:Nottheslightest.
SPIEGEL:Youhavebeencriticizedforthefactthatinthepublicationofthefiftheditionof
BeingandTime(1941)theoriginaldedicationtoHusserlwasomitted.
Heidegger:That'sright.IexplainedthisaffairinmybookOntheWaytoLanguage.14ThereI
wrote: "To counter widely circulated allegations, let it be stated here explicitly that the
dedicationofBeingandTime...remainedinBeingandTimeuntilitsfourtheditionof1935.
In1941,whenmypublishersfeltthatthefiftheditionmightbeendangeredandthat,indeed,
thebookmightbesuppressed,itwasfinallyagreed,onthesuggestionandatthedesireof
Niemeyer15, that the dedication be omitted from the edition, however, on the condition
imposedbyme,thatthenotetopage38beretainedanotewhichinfactstatesthereason
for that dedication, and which runs: "If the following investigation has taken any steps
forwardindisclosingthe'thingsthemselves,'theauthormustfirstofallthankE.Husserl,
who, by providing his own incisive personal guidance and by freely turning over his

unpublished investigations, familiarized the author with the most diverse areas of
phenomenologicalresearchduringhisstudentyearsinFreiburg."(BeingandTime,[New
York:HarperandRow,1962]p.489.)
SPIEGEL:ThenwehardlyneedtoraisethequestionwhetheritiscorrectthatasRectorofthe
UniversityofFreiburgyouforbadetheretiredHusserlaccessto,oruseof,theUniversity
libraryorthelibraryofthePhilosophicalSeminar.
Heidegger:Thatisacalumny.
SPIEGEL:AndthereisnoletterinwhichthisprohibitionagainstHusserliscontained?How,
then,didsucharumorstart?
Heidegger:Idon'tknoweither.Ihavenoexplanationforit.Theimpossibilityofthewhole
thing can be shown by another littleknown fact. During my rectorate I went before the
MinisterofCultureanddefendedtheDirectoroftheMedicalClinic,ProfessorThannhauser,
andthelaterNobelLaureate,Professor(ofPhysicalChemistry)vonHevesybothJews
whomtheMinistrygaveorderstobedismissed.ThatIsupportedthesemenandatthesame
timetookshabbyactionagainstHusserl,aretiredprofessorandmyownteacher,isabsurd.I
also prevented the students and teachers from organizing a demonstration [201] against
ProfessorThannhauser.Atthattimetherewere[someyoung]instructorswaiting[foraformal
appointment]whothought:nowisthetimeforadvancement.Whenthesepeoplepresented
theircasetome,Iturnedthemallaway.
SPIEGEL:YoudidnotattendHusserl'sfuneralin1938.
Heidegger: Let me say this. The criticism that I had broken off my ties to Husserl is
unfounded.InMay,1933,mywifewrotealettertoMrs.Husserlinthenameofbothofusin
whichweassuredthemofourunalteredgratitude,andsentthisletterwithasmallbouquetto
Husserl.Mrs.Husserlansweredbrieflywith aformal 'thankyou' andwrotethat the ties
betweenourfamilieswerebroken.ThatIfailedtoexpressagaintoHusserlmygratitudeand
respectforhimupontheoccasionofhisfinalillnessanddeathisahumanfailurethatI
apologizedforinalettertoMrs.Husserl.
SPIEGEL:Husserldiedin1938.AlreadyinFebruary,1934,youhadresignedtherectorate.
Howdidthathappen?
Heidegger:HereIhaveapointtomake.Intheinterestofreorganizingthetechnicalstructure
oftheuniversity,i.e., ofrenewingthe faculties from theinside outin terms ofthe very
substanceoftheirtask,Iproposedtonominateforthewintersemesterof193334,younger
and, above all, professionally outstanding colleagues to become deans of the individual
faculties,andthis,indeed,withoutconsideringtheirrelationshiptotheNaziParty.Thus,
ProfessorErikWolfwasappointedDeanoftheFacultyofLaw,ProfessorSchadewaltofthe
PhilosophyFaculty,ProfessorSoergeloftheScienceFaculty,andProfessorvonMllendorf,
whohadbeendismissedasRectorthepreviousspring,oftheMedicalFaculty.Butalreadyby
Christmasof1933itbecamecleartomethatIwouldbeunabletocarrythroughthepending
renewaloftheUniversityagainsteithertheresistanceoftheacademiccommunityor[the
oppositionof]theParty.Forexample,theFacultyreproachedmeforintroducingstudentsinto
responsibleadministrationoftheUniversityexactlyasisdonetoday.OnedayIwascalled

toKarlsruhewheretheMinister,throughoneofhisCouncillors,demanded,inthepresenceof
theStudentDistrictLeader,thatIreplacethedeansofthelegalandmedicalfacultieswith
othercolleagueswhowereacceptabletotheParty.Irefusedthisrequestandofferedmy
resignation from the rectorate if the Minister insisted on his demand. That's just what
happened.ThiswasinFebruary,1934.Iresignedaftertenmonthsinofficewhile[other]
rectors of that time remained in office for two or more years. While the national and
internationalpress commented onmyassumptionoftherectorate inthe mostdiversified
fashion,notawordwassaidaboutmyresignation.
SPIEGEL:Didyouhaveatthattimetheopportunitytopresentyourthoughtsaboutuniversity
reformtotheappropriategovernmentminister?
Heidegger:Whattimeareyoureferringto?
SPIEGEL:WearereferringtothetripthatRustmadetoFreiburgin1933.16
Heidegger:Thereweretwodifferentoccasionsinvolved.OntheoccasionoftheSchlageter
celebrationinSchnau(Westphalia),Itooktheinitiativeofmakingashortformalcallupon
the Minister.17 On a second occasion in November, 1933, I spoke with him in Berlin. I
presentedtohimmyconceptionofscienceandofthepossiblerestructuringofthefaculties.
HetookcarefulaccountofeverythingthatIsaid,soInurturedthehopethatwhatIpresented
tohimwouldhavesomeeffect,butnothinghappened.Idonotseewhyexceptionistakento
thisexchangewiththeParty'sthenMinisterofEducation,whileatthesametimeallforeign
governments were hastening to recognize Hitler and to extend to him the ordinary
internationalsignsofrespect.
SPIEGEL:DidyourrelationswiththeNaziPartychangeafteryouresignedasRector?
Heidegger: After my resignation, I limited myself to my teaching responsibilities. In the
summersemester[204]of1934,Ilecturedon"Logic."Inthefollowingsemester193435,I
gavemyfirstcourseonHlderlin.In1936,theNietzschecoursesbegan. 18Allwhocouldhear
atallheardthisasaconfrontationwithNationalSocialism.
SPIEGEL:Howdidthetransferofofficetakeplace?Youtooknopartinthecelebration?
Heidegger:That'sright.Irefusedtotakepartintheceremonialtransferoftherectorate.
SPIEGEL:WasyoursuccessoracommittedmemberoftheParty?
Heidegger: Hewas a member oftheLaw Faculty. Theparty newspaper, Der Alemanne,
announced his designation as Rectorwith bannerheadlines: "TheFirstNational Socialist
RectoroftheUniversity."
SPIEGEL:WhatpositiondidthePartytaketowardyou?
Heidegger:Iwasconstantlywatched.
SPIEGEL:Didyounoticethis?
Heidegger:Yesforexample,thecaseofDr.Hanke.

SPIEGEL:Howdidyouknowaboutit?
Heidegger:Hecametomehimself.Hehadjusttakenhisdoctorateinthewintersemesterof
193637,andinthesummersemesterof1937hewasamemberofmyadvancedseminar.He
wassentherefromS.S.SecurityServicetokeepwatchonme.
SPIEGEL:Howdidithappenthathesuddenlycametoyou?
Heidegger:OnthebasisofmyNietzscheseminarinthesummersemesterof1937,andthe
mannerinwhichtheworkproceeded,heacknowledgedtomethathecouldnolongersustain
theroleofwatchmanandwantedtobringthesituationtomyattentionintheinterestofmy
subsequentteaching.
SPIEGEL:SothePartykeptawatchfuleyeonyou?
Heidegger:Iknewonlythatmypublicationswerenotallowedtobereviewed,e.g.,theessay,
"Plato'sDoctrineofTruth."19 TheHolderlinlecture20 thatIgaveattheGermanInstitutein
Rome in the spring of 1936 was maliciously attacked in the review of the Hitler Youth
Movement,WilleundMacht.Anyoneinterestedtodaymightreadthepolemicagainstmein
E.Kriecks'journal,VolkimWarden,thatbeganinthesummerof1934.AttheInternational
Philosophical Congress inPrague, 1934, Iwas not one ofthe German delegates.In like
manner,IwasexcludedfromtheInternationalDescartesCongressinParis,1937.InParis,
thisseemedsosurprisingthattheDirectoroftheCongress,ProfessorEmilBrevierofthe
Sorbonne,askedme,ofhisownaccord,whyIwasnotamemberoftheGermandelegation.I
repliedthattheadministrationoftheCongressmightinquireaboutthematterattheNational
MinistryofEducation.Shortlyafterward,aninvitationcametomefromBerlintojointhe
delegationbelatedly.Ideclined.Thelectures"WhatisMetaphysics?"and"OntheEssenceof
Truth"21weresoldunderthecounterwithjacketsthatborenotitle.After1934,therectoral
discoursewaswithdrawnimmediatelyfromthebookstoresattheinstigationoftheParty.
SPIEGEL:Diditgetevenworselateron?
Heidegger:Inthelastyearofthewar,500ofthemostimportantscientistsandartistswere
releasedfromanykindofwarservice.Iwasnotamongthem.Onthecontrary,inthesummer
of1944,IwasordereduptheRhinetobuildfortifications.
SPIEGEL:Ontheothersideoftheborder,KarlBarthdidthesamethingfortheSwiss.
Heidegger: What is interesting is how this took place. The Rector hadinvited the entire
teachingfaculty[toareception].Hegaveashorttalktothis effect:hewasspeakingby
specialarrangementwithboththecircleandthedistrictleadersoftheParty.[Accordingly,]
hewouldnowdividetheentireteachingfacultyintothreegroups:first,thosewhowere
completelyexpendable;second,thosewhowerehalfexpendable;andthird,thosewhowere
notexpendableatall.InthefirstgroupofcompletelyexpendablewasHeidegger,andalong
withhimGerhardRitter.22 Inthewintersemesterof194445,aftertheterminationofthe
manuallaborontheRhine,Ibeganacoursethatborethetitle,"PoetizingandThinking."Ina
certainsenseitwasacontinuationofmyNietzschecourses,i.e.,ofmyconfrontationwith
NationalSocialism.Afterthesecondhour,IwasconscriptedintotheCivilDefenseForces,
theoldestmemberoftheteachingbodytobecalledupinthisway.

SPIEGEL:Tosummarize,then:In1933,asanunpoliticalpersoninthestrictsense,ifnotin
thebroadsense,youbecameinvolved...
Heidegger:...bywayoftheUniversity...
SPIEGEL:Yes,bywayofandthroughtheUnversityyoubecameinvolvedwiththepolitics
ofthissupposedlynewera.Afteraboutayearyourelinquishedthefunctionyouhadtaken
over.Butin1935,inacoursethatin1953waspublishedasIntroductiontoMetaphysics,you
said:"Whattoday"thiswas,therefore,1935"isbandiedaboutasthephilosophyof
NationalSocialismbuthasabsolutelynothingtodowiththeinnertruthandgreatnessofthis
movement(namely,withtheencounterbetweentechnicityontheplanetarylevelandmodern
man)castsitsnetinthesetroubledwatersof'values'and'totalities'." 23 Didyouaddthose
parenthesizedwordsforthefirsttimein1953,i.e.,atthetimeofthepublication,inorderto
explaintothereaderof1953,sotospeak,inwhatwayyousawthe"innertruthandgreatness
ofthismovement"(i.e.,ofNationalSocialism)in1935ordidyouhavethisexplanatory
parenthesisalreadytherein1935?
Heidegger:Theparenthesisstoodinmy[original]manuscriptandcorrespondedpreciselyto
myconceptionoftechnicityatthattime,andnotyettothelaterexplicationoftheessenceof
technicityas"posure"(GeStell).24ThereasonIdidnotreadthephrasepublicly[206]was
thatIwasconvincedoftheproperunderstandingofmylisteners,althoughstupidpeople,
informersandspiesunderstooditdifferentlyandalsowantedto.
SPIEGEL:Surelyyouwouldincludeherethecommunistmovement?
Heidegger:Yes,unquestionablyinsofarasthat,tooisaformofplanetarytechnicity.
SPIEGEL:Americanismalso?
Heidegger:Yes,Iwouldsayso.Meantime,thelast30yearshavemadeitclearerthatthe
planetwidemovementofmoderntechnicityisapowerwhosemagnitudeindetermining[our]
historycanhardlybeoverestimated.Formetodayitisadecisivequestionastohowany
politicalsystemandwhichonecanbeadaptedtoanepochoftechnicity.Iknowofno
answertothisquestion.Iamnotconvincedthatitisdemocracy.
SPIEGEL:But"democracy"isonlyacollectivetermthatcanbeconceptualizedinmany
differentways.Thequestioniswhetherornotatransformationofthispoliticalformisstill
possible.Since1945,youhavecommentedonthepoliticaleffortsoftheWesternWorld,
hence also on democracy, on a politically expressed Christian view of the world
(Weltanschauung),evenonthesystemofconstitutionallyguaranteedcitizens'rights.Allof
theseeffortsyouhavecalled"halfwaymeasures."
Heidegger:Firstofall,pleasetellmewhereIhavespokenaboutdemocracyandtheother
thingsyoumention.Iwouldindeedcharacterizethemashalfwaymeasures,[though]because
Idonotseeinthemanyactualconfrontationwiththeworldoftechnicity,inasmuchasbehind
them all, according to my view, stands the conception that technicity in its essence is
something that man holds within his own hands. In my opinion, this is not possible.
Technicityinitsessenceissomethingthatmandoesnotmasterbyhisownpower.25
SPIEGEL:Whichofthetrendsjustsketchedout,accordingtoyourview,wouldbemost

suitabletoourtime?
Heidegger:Idon'tsee[anyanswerto]that.ButIdoseehereadecisivequestion.Firstofill,it
wouldbenecessarytoclarifywhatyoumeanby"suitabletoourtime."Whatismeanthereby
"time?" Furthermore, the question should be raised as to whether such suitability is the
[appropriate] standard for the "inner truth" of human activity, and whether the standard
measureof[human]activityisnotthinkingandpoetizing,howeverhereticalsuchashift[of
emphasis]mayseemtobe.26
SPIEGEL:Itisobviousthatmanitnever[complete]masterofhistoolswitnessthecaseof
theSorcerer'sApprentice.Butisitnotalittletoopessimistictosay:wearenotgaining
masteryoverthissurelymuchgreatertool[thatis]moderntechnicity?
Heidegger:Pessimism,no.IntheareaofthereflectionthatIamattemptingnow,pessimism
andoptimismarepositionsthatdon'tgofarenough.Butaboveall,moderntechnicityisno
"tool"andhasnothingatalltodowithtools.
SPIEGEL:Whyshouldwebesopowerfullyoverwhelmedbytechnicitythat...?
Heidegger:Idon'tsay[weare]"overwhelmed"[byit].Isaythatuptothepresentwehavenot
yetfoundawaytorespondtotheessenceoftechnicity.
SPIEGEL: But someone might object very naively: what must be mastered in this case?
Everything is functioning. More and more electric power companies are being built.
Productionisup.Inhighlytechnologizedpartsoftheearth,peoplearewellcaredfor.Weare
livinginastateofprosperity.Whatreallyislackingtous?
Heidegger:Everythingis functioning.Thatispreciselywhatisawesome,thateverything
functions,thatthefunctioningpropelseverythingmoreandmoretowardfurtherfunctioning,
andthattechnicityincreasinglydislodgesmananduprootshimfromtheearth.Idon'tknowif
youwereshocked,but[certainly]IwasshockedwhenashorttimeagoIsawthepicturesof
theearthtakenfromthemoon.Wedonotneedatomicbombsatall[touprootus]the
uprootingofmanisalreadyhere.Allourrelationshipshavebecomemerelytechnicalones.It
isnolongeruponanearththatmanlivestoday.RecentlyIhadalong[209]dialoguein
ProvencewithReneCharapoetandresistancefighter,asyouknow.InProvencenow,
launchpadsarebeingbuiltandthecountrysidelaidwasteinunimaginablefashion.Thispoet,
whocertainlyisopentonosuspicionofsentimentalityorofglorifyingtheidyllic,saidtome
thattheuprootingofmanthatisnowtakingplaceistheend[ofeverythinghuman],unless
thinkingandpoetizingonceagainregain[their]nonviolentpower.
SPIEGEL:Well,wehavetosaythatindeedweprefertobehere,andinouragewesurely
willnothavetoleaveforelsewhere.Butwhoknowsifmanisdeterminedtobeuponthis
earth?Itisthinkablethatmanhasabsolutelynodeterminationatall.Afterall,onemightsee
ittobeoneofman'spossibilitiesthathereachoutfromthisearthtowardotherplanets.We
havebynomeanscomethatfar,ofcoursebutwhereisitwrittenthathehashisplacehere?
Heidegger:Asfarasmyownorientationgoes,inanycase,Iknowthat,accordingtoour
humanexperienceandhistory,everythingessentialandofgreatmagnitudehasarisenonlyout
ofthefactthatmanhadahomeandwasrootedinatradition.Contemporaryliterature,for

example,islargelydestructive.
SPIEGEL:Theword"destructive"inthiscaseisbothersome,especiallyinsofaras,thanksto
youandyourphilosophy,thewordhasbeengivenacomprehensivecontextofmeaningthat
isnihilistic[intone].Itisjarringtoheartheword"destructive"usedwithregardtoliterature,
whichapparentlyyouareabletoseeorarecompelledtoseeascompletelyapartofthis
nihlism.
Heidegger:LetmesaythattheliteratureIhaveinmindisnotnihilisticinthesensethatIgive
tothatword.
SPIEGEL:Obviously,youseeaworldmovementthisisthewayyou,too,haveexpressedit
thateitherisbringingaboutanabsolutelytechnicalstateorhasdonesoalready.
Heidegger:That'sright.
SPIEGEL:Fine.Nowthequestionnaturallyarises:Cantheindividualmaninanywaystill
influencethisweboffatefulcircumstance?Or,indeed,canphilosophyinfluenceit?Orcan
bothtogetherinfluenceit,insofarasphilosophyguidestheindividual,orseveralindividuals,
toadeterminedaction?
Heidegger: If I may answer briefly, and perhaps clumsily, but after long reflection:
philosophywillbeunabletoeffectanyimmediatechangeinthecurrentstateoftheworld.
Thisistruenotonlyofphilosophybutofallpurelyhumanreflectionandendeavor.Onlya
godcansaveus.Theonlypossibilityavailabletousisthatbythinknigandpoetizingwe
prepareareadinessfortheappearanceofagod,orfortheabsenceofagodin[our]decline,
insofarasinviewoftheabsentgodweareinastateofdecline.27
SPIEGEL:Isthereacorrelationbetweenyourthinkingandtheemergenceofthisgod?Is
therehereinyourviewacausalconnection?Doyoufeelthatwecanbringagodforthbyour
thinking?
Heidegger:Wecannotbringhimforthbyourthinking.Atbestwecanawakenareadinessto
wait[forhim].
SPIEGEL:Butcanwehelp?
Heidegger:Thefirsthelpmightbethereadyingofthisreadiness.Itisnotthroughmanthat
theworldcanbewhatitisandhowitisbutalsonotwithoutman.Inmyview,thisgoes
togetherwiththefactthatwhatIcall"Being"(thatlongtraditional,highlyambiguous,now
wornoutword)hasneedofmaninorderthatitsrevelation,itsappearanceastruth,andits
[various]formsmaycometopass.TheessenceoftechnicityIseeinwhatIcall"posure"
(GeSull),anoftenridiculedandperhapsawkwardexpression. 28 Tosaythatposureholds
swaymeansthatmanisposed,enjoinedandchallengedbyapowerthatbecomesmanifestin
theessenceoftechnicityapowerthatmanhimselfdoesnotcontrol.Thoughtasksnomore
thanthis:thatithelpusachievethisinsight.Philosophyisatanend.
SPIEGEL:Yet,nonetheless,informertimes(andnotonlyinformertimes)philosophywas
thoughttoaccomplishagreatdealindirectlydirectlyonlyseldombutwasableindirectly
todomuch,tohelpnewcurrentsbreakthrough.Ifwethinkonlyofthegreatnamesof

Germanthought,likeKantandHegeldownthroughNietzsche(nottomentionMarx),itcan
beshownthatinroundaboutwaysphilosophyhashadatremendouseffect.Doyoumeannow
thatthiseffectivenessofphilosophyisatanend?Andifyousaythattheoldphilosophyis
dead that there is no such thing any more, do you also include the thought that this
effectivenessofphilosophy,ifitwaseverthereinthepast,isinourday,atleast,nolonger
there?
Heidegger:Amediatedeffectivenessispossiblethroughanother[kindof]thinking,butno
directoneinthesensethatthoughtwillchangetheworldinanycausalway,sotospeak.
SPIEGEL:Excuseme,wedonotwishtophilosophizewearenotuptothatbutwehave
herethepointofcontactbetweenpoliticsandphilosophy.Thatiswhyyounoticethatweare
drawnintoadialogueofthiskind.Youhavejustsaidthatphilosophyandtheindividual
wouldbeabletodonothingbut...
Heidegger:....butmakereadyforthisreadinessofholdingoneselfopenforthearrival,or
fortheabsence,ofagod.Eventheexperienceofthisabsenceisnotnothing,butaliberation
ofmanfromwhatin BeingandTime Icall"fallenness"uponbeings.29 Making[ourselves]
readyfortheaforementionedreadinessinvolvesreflectingonwhatinourownday...is.
SPIEGEL:Butforthiswestillwouldneed,infact,thewellknownstimulusfromoutsidea
godorsomeoneelse.Hence,[weareasking:]cannotthought,relyingcompletelyonitsown
resources,haveagreaterimpacttoday?Therewasatimewhenithadanimpact[atleast]so
thoughtthecontemporariesthen,andmanyofus,Isuspect,thinksotoo.
Heidegger:Butnotimmediately.
SPIEGEL:WejustmentionedKant,HegelandMarxasmenwhomoved[theworld].But
evenfromaLeibnizcamestimuliforthedevelopmentofmodernphysicsandconsequently
fortheemergenceofthemodernworldassuch.Webelieveyousaidamomentagothatyou
nolongertakeaccountofefficacyofthiskind.
Heidegger:Notinthesenseofphilosophynotanymore. 30 Theroleofphilosophyinthe
past has been taken ever today by the sciences. For a satisfactory clarification of the
"efficacy"of[philosophical]thinkingwewouldhavetoanalyzeingreaterdepthwhatinthis
case "efficacy" and "having an effect" can mean. Here we would need fundamental
distinctions bctwen"occasion," "stimulus," "challenge," "assistance," "hinderancc" and
"cooperation," once we have sufficiently analyzed the "principle of ground ['sufficient
reason']."Philosophy[today]dissolvesintoindividualsciences:psychology,logic,political
science.
SPIEGEL:Andwhatnowtakestheplaceofphilosophy?
Heidegger:Cybernetics.
SPIEGEL:Orthepious[one]thatholdshimselfopen.31
Heidegger:Butthatisnolongerphilosophy.32
SPIEGEL:Whatisitthen?

Heidegger:Icallitanother[kindof]thinking.
SPIEGEL:Youcallitanother[kindof]thinking.Wouldyoupleaseformulatethatabitmore
clearly?
Heidegger:AreyouthinkingofthesentencewithwhichIclosedmylecture,"TheQuestionof
Technicity":"Questioningisthepietyofthought"?
SPIEGEL:WefoundaphraseinyourNietzschecoursesthatwasilluminating.Yousaythere:
"Becausephilosophicalthinkingtakes placewithinthestrictestpossiblebounds,allgreat
thinkersthinkthesame[thing].Butthissame[thing]issoessentialandrichthatnoindividual
everexhaustsit,butrathereach[individual]onlybindsotherindividuals[toit]themore
rigorously."Butindeeditispreciselythisphilosophicaledificethatinyouropinonapparently
hasreachedacertaintermination,
Heidegger:Ithasreacheditsterm.Butithasnotbecomeforus[simply]nothingrather,
preciselythroughdialogueithasbecomenewlypresentagain.Myentireworkincoursesand
seminars over the past 30 years was, in the main, only an interpretation of Western
philosophy.Thereturntothehistoricalfoundationsofthought,thethinkingthroughofthose
questions that since Greek philosophy still go unasked this is no abandonment of the
tradition.WhatIdosayisthis:themannerofthinkingoftraditionalmetaphysicsthatreached
its term with Nietzsche offers no further possibility of experiencing in thought the
fundamentalthrustoftheageoftechnicitythatisjustbeginning.
SPIEGEL:AbouttwoyearsagoinanexchangewithaBuddhistmonk,youspokeof"a
completelynewmethodofthinking"andsaidthatthisnewmethodofthinkingis,"atfirst,
possibleforbutfewmentoachieve."Didyoumeantosaybythisthatonlyveryfewpeople
canhavetheinsightsthatinyouropinionarepossibleandnecessary?
Heidegger:[Yes,ifyoutake]"have"inthecompletelyoriginalsensethattheyareableina
certainwaytogiveutteranceto[theseinsights].
SPIEGEL:Finebutthetransmission[oftheseinsights]intoactualizationyoudidnotmake
apparenteveninthisdialoguewiththeBuddhist.
Heidegger:AndIcannotmakeitapparent.Iknownothingabouthowthisthoughthasan
"effect."Itmaybe,too,thatthewayofthoughttodaymayleadonetoremainsilentinorder
toprotectthisthoughtfrombecomingcheapenedwithinayear.Itmayalsobethatitneeds
300yearsinordertohavean"effect."
SPIEGEL:Weunderstandverywell.However,sincewedonotlive300yearshencebuthere
and now, silence is denied us. The rest of us politicians, halfpoliticians, citizens,
journalists,etc.mustconstantlymakedecisions.Wemustadaptourselvestothesystemin
whichwelive,mustseektochangeit,mustscoutoutthenarrowopeningsthatmayleadto
reform,andthestillnarroweropeningsthatmayleadtorevolution.Weexpecthelpfrom
philosophers,evenifonlyindirecthelphelpinroundaboutways.Andnowwehearonly:I
cannothelpyou.
Heidegger:Well,Ican't.

SPIEGEL:Thatmustdiscouragethenonphilosopher.
Heidegger:Icannot[helpyou],becausethequestionsaresodifficultthatitwouldruncounter
tothesenseofthistaskofthinkingtosuddenlystepoutinpublicinordertopreachand
dispensemoralcensures.Perhapswemayventuretoputitthisway:tothemysteryofthe
planetary domination of the unthought esssence of technicity corresponds the tentative,
unassumingcharacterofthoughtthatstrivestoponderthisunthought[essence].
SPIEGEL:Youdonotcountyourselfamongthosewho,iftheywouldonlybeheard,could
pointoutaway?
Heidegger:No!Iknowofnowaytochangethepresentstateoftheworldimmediately,[even]
assumingthatsuchathingbeatallhumanlypossible.Butitseemstomethatthethinkingthat
Iattemptmightbeabletoawaken,clarify,andconfirm[a]readiness[fortheappearanceof'a
god]thatIhavementionedalready.
SPIEGEL:Aclearanswer!Butcanandmayathinkersay:[214]justwaitwewill
thinkofsomethingwithin300years?
Heidegger:Itisnotsimplyamatterofjustwaitinguntilsomethingoccurstomanwithin300
years,butrathertothinkforwardwithoutpropheticclaimsintothecomingtimeintermsof
the fundamental thrust of our present age that has hardly been thought through [at all].
Thinkingisnotinactivity,butisitselfbyitsverynatureanengagementthatstandsindialogue
withtheepochalmomentoftheworld.Itseemstomethatthedistinctionbetweentheoryand
practicecomesfrommetaphysics,andtheconceptionofatransmissionbetweenthesetwo
blocksthewaytoinsightintowhatIunderstandbythinking.PerhapsImayrefertomy
lecturesunderthetitle,"WhatisCalledThinking?"thatappearedin1954.33Maybethis,too,
isasignofourtime,thatofallmypublications,thisistheleastread.
SPIEGEL:Letusreturntowherewebegan.WoulditnotbethinkablethatweseeNational
Socialism,ontheonehand,astheactualizationofthis"planetaryencounter"and,onthe
other,asthelast,worst,strongestand,atthesametime,weakestprotestagainstthisencounter
between "planetary technicity" and modern man? Obviously you have in your person a
[certain] polarity that brings it about that many byproducts of your activity are to be
explainedproperlyonlybythefactthatdifferentsidesofyournature(thatdonottouchyour
philosophicalcore)clingtomanythingsthatasaphilosopheryouknowhavenofirmbase
forexample,conceptssuchas"home,""rootedness"andthelike.Howdothesethingsgo
together:planetarytechnicityandhome?
Heidegger:Idonotagree.Itseemstomethatyoutaketechnicityinmuchtooabsolute[a
sense].Iseethesituationofmanintheworldofplanetarytechnicitynotasaninextricable
andinescapabledestiny,butIseethetaskofthoughtpreciselyinthis,thatwithinitsown
limitsithelpsmanassuchachieveasatisfactoryrelationshiptotheessenceoftechnicity.
National Socialism did indeed go in this direction. Those people, however, were far too
poorlyequippedforthoughttoarriveatareallyexplicitrelationshiptowhatishappening
todayandhasbeenunderwayforthepast300years.
SPIEGEL:DotheAmericanstodayhavethisexplicitrelationship?

Heidegger:Theydonothaveiteither.Theyarestillcaughtupinathoughtthat,underthe
guiseofpragmatism,facilitatesthetechnicaloperationandmanipulation[ofthings],butatthe
sametimeblocksthewaytoreflectionuponthegenuinenatureofmoderntechnicity.Atthe
same time, here and there in the USA attempts are being made to become free from
pragmaticpositivisticthinking.Andwhoofuswouldbeinapositiontodecidewhetheror
notonedayinRussiaorChinaveryoldtraditionsof"thought"mayawakenthatwillhelp
makepossibleformanafreerelationshiptothetechnicalworld?
SPIEGEL:[But],ifnoneofthemhasthisrelationship[now],andthephilosopherisunableto
giveittothem....
Heidegger:HowfarIcomewithmyowneffortatthoughtandinwhatwayitwillbereceived
inthefutureandfruitfullytransformedthisisnotformetodecide.Inaspeciallectureon
the occasion of the jubilee of the University of Freiburg in 1957, under the title, "The
PrincipleofIdentity,"34 Ifinallyventuredtoshowinafewstepsofthoughttowhatextent
thereisopenedupformanintheageoftechnicity(insofaraswethoughtfullyexperience
what the genuine nature of technicity is based upon) the possibility of experiencing a
relationshiptoanappealtowhichheisnotonlyabletoattendbutofwhichheismuchrather
himself an attendant. My thought stands in an unavoidable relationship to the poetry of
Hlderlin.IconsiderHlderlinnot[just]onepoetamongotherswhoseworkthehistoriansof
literaturemaytakeasatheme[forstudy].Forme,Hderlinisthepoetwhopointsintothe
future,whowaitsforagod,andwho,consequently,shouldnotremainmerelyanobjectof
researchaccordingtothecanonsofliteraryhistory.
SPIEGEL:AproposofHlderlinweapologizeforhavingtoquoteagain:inyourNietzsche
coursesyousaidthat"thevariedconflictweknowbetweentheDionysianandtheApollonian,
between holy passion and sober exposition, is a hidden law of style of the historical
determinationoftheGerman[people],andonedaymustfindusreadyandpreparedforitto
takeitsform.Thisantithesisisnot[just]aformulawiththehelpofwhichwemayonly
describe[our]'culture.'Withthisconflict,HolderlinandNietzschehavesetaquestionmark
infrontofthetaskofGermanstofindtheiressenceinanhistoricalway.Willweunderstand
the[question]mark?Onethingiscertain,historywilltakeitsrevengeuponusifwedonot
understandit."Wedonotknowinwhichyearyouwrotethat,butweguessthatitwasin
1935.
Heidegger:ProbablythecitationbelongstotheNietzschecourse,"TheWilltoPowcrasArt,"
193637.35Itcoulddate,however,fromthefollowingyears.
SPIEGEL:Well,couldyoupleaseexplainit?Itleadsusfromthepathwayofthegeneraltoa
concretedeterminationoftheGerman[people].
Heidegger:ThedriftofthecitationIcouldalsoputthisway:myconvictionisthatonlyinthe
sameplacewherethemoderntechnicalworldtookitsorigincanwealsoprepareaconversion
(Umkehr)ofit.Inotherwords,thiscannothappenbytakingoverZenBuddhismorother
Easternexperiencesoftheworld.[217]Forthisconversionofthoughtweneedthehelpofthe
Europeantraditionandanewappropriationofit.Thoughtwillbetransformedonlythrough
thoughtthathasthesameoriginanddetermination.
SPIEGEL:Youmean,inthesameplacewherethetechnicalworldtookitsoriginitalsomust.

...
Heidegger:...besublated(aufgehoben)intheHegeliansensenotsetasidebutsublated,
thoughnotthroughmanalone.36
SPIEGEL:YouattributetotheGermansaspecialtask?
Heidegger:Yes,inthesenseexplainedinthedialogueswithHlderlin.
SPIEGEL:DoyoubelievethatGermanshaveaspecialqualificationforthisconversion?
Heidegger:IamthinkingofthespecialinnerkinshipbetweentheGermanlanguageandthe
languageoftheGreeksandtheirthought.ThisissomethingthattheFrenchconfirmforme
againandagaintoday.Whentheybegintothink,theyspeakGerman.Theyassure[me]that
theydonotsucceedwiththeirownlanguage.
SPIEGEL: Is that how you explain the fact that in the countries of romance languages,
especiallyamongtheFrench,youhavehadsuchastronginfluence?
Heidegger:[Itis]becausetheyseethatdespitealloftheirgreatrationalitytheynolonger
makeagoofitintoday'sworldwhenitcomestoanissueofunderstandingthisworldinthe
originofitsessence.Onecannomoretranslatethoughtthanonecantranslateapoem.At
best, one can paraphrase it. As soon as one attempts a literal translation, everything is
transformed.
SPIEGEL:Adisturbingthought.
Heidegger:Itwouldbegoodifthisdisturbanceweretakenseriouslyingoodmeasure,and
people finally gave some thought to what a portentous transformation Greek thought
underwent by translation into the Latin of Rome, an event that even today prevents an
adequatereflectionuponthefundamentalwordsofGreekthought.
SPIEGEL:Professor,forourpartwewouldliketomaintainouroptimismthatsomethingcan
becommunicatedandeventranslated,forifweshouldceasetohopethatthecontentof
thoughtcanbecommunicated,evenbeyondlanguagebarriers,thenweareleftwiththethreat
ofprovincialism.
Heidegger:WouldyoucharacterizeGreekthoughtindistinctionfromtheconceptualstyleof
theRomanEmpireas"provincial?"Businessletterscanbetranslatedintoalllanguages.The
sciences, i.e., even for us today the natural sciences (with mathematical physics as the
fundamentalscience),aretranslatableintoallthelanguagesoftheworldor,tobeexact,
theyarenottranslatedbutthesamemathematicallanguageisspoken[universally].[But]we
touchhereabroadfieldthatisdifficulttocover.
SPIEGEL: Perhaps this is another version of the same theme: at the moment it is no
exaggeration[tosaythat]wehaveacrisisofthedemocraticparliamentarysystem.Wehave
haditforalongtime.WehaveitespeciallyinGermany,butnotinGermanyalone.Wehave
italsointheclassicallandsofdemocracylikeEnglandandAmerica.InFrance,itishardly
anylongeracrisis.Thequestion,then,isthis:isn'titpossible,afterall,thatsuggestionscome
fromthethinkers(ifonlyasabyproduct)eitherastohowthissystemmaybereplacedbya

newoneandwhatanewonewouldlooklike,orthatreformmustbepossibletogetherwith
someindicationastohowthisreformcouldbepossible.Otherwise,weareleftinasituation
wherethemanwhoisphilosophicallyuntutoredandnormallythiswillbeonewhoholds
thingsinhishands(thoughhedoesnotdeterminethem)andwhoishimselfinthehandsof
thingsweareleftinasituation[Isay]wheresuchamanarrivesatfalseconclusions,
perhapsatfrightfulshortcircuits[ofthought].Therefore,oughtnotthephilosopherbeready
[219]toformulatethoughtsastohowmenmayarrangetheirrelationswithothermeninthis
worldthattheythemselveshavetechnologized,thatperhapshasoverwhelmedthem?And
doeshenotbetrayapart,albeitasmallpart,ofhisprofessionandhisvocationifhehas
nothingtosaytohisfellowmen?
Heidegger:AsfarasIcansee,anindividual[thinker]isnotinapositionbyreasonofhis
thoughttoseethroughtheworldasawholeinsuchfashionastobeabletoofferpractical
advice,andthis,indeed,inviewofthefactthathisfirsttaskistofindabasisforthinking
itself.Foraslongasthoughttakesitselfseriouslyintermsofthegreattradition,itisasking
toomuchofthoughtforittobecommittedtoofferingadviceinthisway.Bywhatauthority
couldthiscomeabout?Inthedomainofthinkingtherearenoauthoritativestatements.The
onlymeasureforthoughtcomesfromthethingitselftobethought.Butthisis,aboveall,the
[eminently]Questionable.Inordertogivesomeinsightintothe"content"ofsuchthought,it
wouldbenecessarytoanalyzetherelationshipbetweenphilosophyandthesciences,whose
technicalpracticalaccomplishmentsmakethoughtinthephilosophicalsenseseemmoreand
moresuperfluous.Thusithappensthatcorrespondingtothepredicamentthatthoughtfaces
byreasonofitsownpropertaskthereisanestrangementwithregardtothoughtnourishedby
thepowerfulplaceofthesciences[inourculture].[Thatiswhy]thoughtisforcedtorenounce
ananswertoquestionsofthedayconcerningpracticalmattersofWeltanschauung....
SPIEGEL: Professor, in the domain of thought there are no authoritative statements.
Likewise,itissurelynotsurprisingthatmodernart,too,hasdifficultyinmakingauthoritative
statements. And yet you call it "destructive." Modern art understands itself often as
experimentalart.Itsworksareattempts....
Heidegger:Iamgladtobeinstructed.
SPIEGEL:...Attemptswithinasituationwheremanandtheartistareisolated,and[yet]
amongahundredeffortseverynowandagainonesucceeds.
Heidegger:Thisisindeedthequestion:wheredoesartstand?Whatplacedoesithave?
SPIEGEL:Allright,butthereyoudemandsomethingfromartthatyounolongerdemand
fromthought.
Heidegger:Idemandnothingfromart.Isayonlythatitisaquestionastowhatplaceit
occupies.
SPIEGEL:Ifartdoesnotknowitsplace,isitthereforedestructive?
Heidegger:Allright,crossthewordout.Iwouldliketoobserve,however,thatIdonotsee
anythingaboutmodernartthatpointsoutaway[forus].Moreover,itremainsobscureasto
howartseesthespecificcharacterofart,oratleastlooksforit.

SPIEGEL:Theartist,too,findsnothinginwhatishandeddowntobindhim.Hecanfindit
beautifulandsay:Yes,thisisthewaysomeonecouldpaint600yearsago,oreven30years
ago,buthehimselfcandoitnolonger.Evenifhewantedto,hecouldnotdoit.[Ifthatwere
possible,]thenthegreatestartistwouldbeaningeniousimposter[like]HansvanMeegeren,
whocouldpaint "better"than [his contemporaries].But this sortofthing does notwork
anymore.Thustheartist,thewriter,thepoetareinasituationsimilartothatofthethinker.
Howoftenmustwethensay:closeyoureyes.
Heidegger:Ifwetakeasframeworkforthecorrelationofart,poetryandphilosophythe
"culturebusiness"thenthecomparisonyoumakeisvalid.Butifnotonlythe"business"
characterisopentoquestionbutalsothemeaningof"culture,"thenreflectionuponsuch
questionable matters falls, too, within the area of responsibility of thought, whose own
distressedconditionisnoteasilythoughtthrough.Butthegreatestneedofthoughtconsistsin
this,thattoday,sofarasIcansee,thereisstillnothinkerspeakingwhois"great"enoughto
bringthoughtimmediatelyandinclearlydefinedformbeforetheheartofthematter[seine
Sache]andthereby[setit]onitsway.Forustoday,thegreatnessofwhatistobethoughtis
[all]toogreat.Perhapsthebestwecandoisstrivetobreakapassagethroughitalong
narrowpathsthatdonotstretchtoofar.
SPIEGEL:ProfessorHeidegger,thankyouforthisinterview.
TranslatedbyWilliamJ.Richardson,S.J.

Notes
WilliamJ.Richardson,S.J.,isProfessorofPhilosophyatFordhamUniversityandauthorof
Heidegger:ThroughPhenomenologytoThought,3rd.edition(TheHague:Nijhoff,1974).
1. The Nazis came to power January 30, 1933. Heidegger was elected Rector of the
UniversityofFreiburginMay,1933.Atissue,therefore,ishisrelationtoNazismbefore,
duringandafterhistenureasRector.
2.Heidegger'sfavoriteretreatwasasmallwoodenhutatTodtnaubergintheBlackForest,not
farfromFreiburg.
3.IntheGermanuniversitiesatthattime,thesummersemesterbeganinlateAprilandlasted
untillateJuly.ThewintersemesterbeganinearlyNovemberandlasteduntilearlyFebruary.
4.PresumablyoneofthemanyformsoftheJewishboycott(e.g.,Judenunerwnscht,"Jews
unwelcomehere!")alreadyunderway3monthsafterHitler'sassumptionofpower.
5.TheSocialDemocratswereoneoftheoldestofGermany'spoliticalpartiesandoneofthe
mostinfluentialduringtheWeimarRepublic.
6.TheS.A.(Sturmabteilung)werethe"Stormtroopers"or"Brownshirts."

7.TranslatedbyDavidFarrellKrellin MartinHeidegger,BasicWritings,ed.D.F.Krell
(NewYork:HarperandRow,1977),pp.91112,atp.96(mytranslation).
8.ThenewRectorfollowedthetimehonoredcustomofmakingaformalpublicaddresswhen
hetookoffice.Entitlinghisaddress"TheSelfAssertionoftheGermanUniversity"(Breslau:
Korn,1933),Heideggerurgedtheacademiccommunitytoassumeitsresponsibilitybeforethe
nationintheserviceofscience"servicebylabor,""serviceunderarms,""servicethrough
knowledge."Somefoundaparallelforthisconceptionof"service"inPlato'sRepublic.Others
foundittobeacompletecapitulationtotheNazis.Hence,thepursuithereoftheapparently
Nazistimplicationsoftheaddress.
9.Spiegelnote:Thepassageappearedinthereview,DieErziehung,editedbyA.Fischer,W.
Flitner,Th.Litt,H.NohlandE.Spranger(1933),p.401.
10. Translated by John Macquarrie and Edward Robinson (New York: Harper and Row,
1962.)ThiswasHeidegger'sfirstmajorandstillmostimportantwork.Initheraisedthe
questionthathaspervadedallofhissubsequentefforts:whatitthemeaningofBeing?
11.Theallusionisobscure.Perhapstheinterviewermeans:"afterthemanneroftheoracleat
Delphi,"i.e.,inamannerthatwasdeliberatelyenigmaticandevasivesothatthehearer
could interpret what was said in whatever way he wished. But the the word should be
Delphicae, and the phrase as it stands would be simply a pedantic malapropism. Other
possibleexplanationsofthephrasearelessprobableandevenmoreesoteric.
12.I.e.,thespecializedreferencelibraryintheseminarroomsofthePhilosophyDepartment.
13.ErichMhsam,18741934,wasaGermanpoet,playwrightandanarchist,whodiedina
concentrationcampin1934.
14.TranslatedbyPeterD.Hertz(NewYork:HarperandRow,1971),p.199.Thededication
inquestionhasbeenrestoredinsubsequenteditions.
15.PublisheroftheGermaneditionsofBeingandTime.
16.BernhardRusthadbeenaNaziPartymemberandfriendofHitlersincetheearly'twenties
andwasnamedReichMinisterofScience,EducationandPopularCultureshortlyafterHitler
assumedoffice.
17.AlbertLeoSchlageter(18941923)wasshotbytheFrenchforhisroleintheresistanceto
theFrenchoccupationoftheRuhr.
18. In his "Logic" course, Heidegger addressed the fundamental nature of thought,
particularlyintermsofitsrelationshiptolanguage.InmeditatingonHlderlin,hereflected
onthenatureoflanguageasitappearsinpoetry.TheNietzschecoursesdealtwithNietzsche's
thoughtasthedenouementofmetaphysicsintheWest.
19.TranslatedbyJohnBarlow,in PhilosophyintheTwentiethCentury,editedbyWilliam
BarrettandH.D.Aiken(NewYork:RandomHouse,1962).Vol.II,pp.251270.
20."HlderlinandtheEssenceofPoetry,"translatedbyDouglasScott,in Existenceand

Being,editedbyWernerBrock(Chicago:RegneryGateway,1969),pp.270291.
21.TranslatedbyJohnSallisinBasicWritings,pp.117141.
22.GerhardRitterwasatthattimeProfessorofModernHistoryattheUniversityofFreiburg
and,onNovember1,1944,wasarrestedinconnectionwiththeattemptonHitler'slife,July
20,1944.Hewasimprisoned,andreleasedbytheAlliedforces,April25,1945.
23. Translated by Ralph Manheim (Garden City, NY.: Doubleday Anchor, 1961). By
"technicity,"Heideggermeansmorethanjust"technology."Heusesthetermtocharacterize
themannerinwhichBeingmanifestsitselfinthepresentepochoftheworld,accordingto
whichmanexperiencesthebeingsaroundhimasobjectsthatcanbesubmittedtohiscontrol.
Itisasaconsequenceofthisexperiencethat"technology"becomespossible.Technicityfor
Heideggeris"planetary"inthesensethatthisrevelationofBeingisplanetwideandaffects
everyaspectofman'srelationshipto,andon,theplanetwherehefindshimself.
24.By1953,when IntroductiontoMetaphysics wasfirstpublished,Heideggerhadalready
beguntodescribetechnicityinterms ofits essence(i.e.,as amannerinwhichBeingis
revealedandconcealed)bytheneologism, Gestell.Althoughtheword Gestell ("frame,"
"stand," "chassis") is found in ordinary German, Heidegger is using it in completely
idiosyncraticfashiontosignifythecollectiveway(suggestedbytheprefix, Ge)inwhich
beingsareexperiencedbymanasinonewayoranother"posed"(variousformsofstellen)
to, by and for man (e.g., "composed," "contraposed," "proposed," etc.), and thus
conceivablysubjecttohiscontrol.TheoriginalusagebyHeideggerisenigmaticforallbut
initiatedGermans.ItisuntranslatablebyanysingleEnglishword"posure"hereisatbest
an equally neologistic and probably futile approximation. See "Die Frage nach der
Technik,"VortrgeundAufstze(Pfullingen:Neske,1954),pp.1344.AnEnglishtranslation
byWilliamLovitthascomeforthunderthetitle"TheQuestionconcerningTechnology"and
otherEssays(NewYork:HarperandRow,1977).
25.SincetechnicityforHeideggerisinitsessencethemannerinwhichBeingrevealsitself
throughbeingstoman,mandoesnotcontrolit(i.e.,masteritbyhisownpower)butatbest
candonomorethanrespondtoitappropriately.
26."Thinking"forHeideggermeansmorethanmerelyintellectualactivityitinvolvesan
authenticresponseofthewholemantotherevelationofBeing.Assuch,itisnonconceptual
andnonrepresentationalatotal,acceptingopennesstoBeing.Likewise,"poetizing"means
morethansimplywriting"poetry"orthe"poeticarts"inanyordinarysenseitmeans
bringingtherevelationofBeingintoappropriatelanguage.
27.Inallprobability,Heideggerisnotusingtheword"god"hereinanypersonalsensebutin
the sense that he gives to the word (often in the expression, "god or the gods") in his
interpretationsofHlderlin,i.e.,astheconcretemanifestationofBeingas"theHoly."
28.Seenote23.
29.I.e.,thetendencytobecomeabsorbedinbeingstothedisregardofBeingthatrevealsitself
inandthroughthem.
30.Heideggerisusingtheword"philosophy"heretodesignatethemetaphysicaltraditionof

the West that he sees as beginning with Plato and ending with Nietzsche. He sees it as
interrogatingthenatureofbeings(eitheringeneralorintermsoftheirultimategroundina
"supreme"being).HisowninterestisininterrogatingthemeaningofBeingitself,whichhe
experiencesasthesourceoflightbywhichbeingsareilluminedaswhattheyareandwhich
thereforeliesatthefoundationofmetaphysics.Hence,hecallshiseffortatvarioustimes
"foundational,"or"recollective,"or"interrogative,"orsimply(asbelow)"another"kindof
thinking.Itwouldbethetaskofsuchathoughttointerrogatetheessenceoftechnicityasa
mannerinwhichBeingmanifestsitselfinthepresentepochoftheworld.
31.TheallusionistothewayHeideggerconcludedoneofhisessays,"TheQuestionof
Technicity,"withaphrasethatsincethenhasbecomefamous:"Questioningisthepietyof
thought." (Vortrge und Augstze, Pfullingen: Neske, 1954), p. 44. Cf. The Question
ConcerningTechnology...,p.34.
32.I.e.,inthesenseofthetraditionalmetaphysicsoftheWest.
33.TranslatedbyFredD.WieckandJ.GlennGray(NewYork:HarperandRow,1968).
34.TranslatedbyJoanStambaugh(NewYork:HarperandRow,1969).
35.Nietzsche(Pfullingen:Neske,1961).Vol.I,pp.11254.
36.I.e.,assumedandintegratedonahigherlevel.