Crazy Electrical Problems Help Please Lol!!

crazy electrical problems help please lol!!
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04-24-2013, 07:39 PM
seven
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#46
private messge
Quote:
Originally Posted by prcherokee
You should concentrate your search on the AC wiring at the

PDC,You said that if you jumped the low pressure switch
My Photos
the fan comes on that is a normally closed switch.That
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
means that is no good.
Check your private messages,A gift for your service and
family members.It should help you with this problem and in
the future.
wow thanks alot !! my nephew was here and he is actually going to
down load it .. Thanks again for your input and of course the holy
grail lol!! seven...
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04-26-2013, 07:34 AM
seven
#47
crazy electrical problems last try?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
Well I have tried about everything so the only thing I can figure out
is that their is a break some where in the harness.. communication
to the scanner is still a problem so what I was going to do is run a
"pair" of wire from the gray plug on the pcm to the obd connector
My Photos
because I believe I am still not getting the proper ground signal
their.. I am going to follow the path of the white /bk stripe and the
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
vilet/ brown stripe and see if their is any change ?? don`t know
what else to do ,if this doesn`t work gonna sell it as a parts truck..
it is pretty clean has a set of 31 on it and a brush bar lol at the end
of my rope , Thanks to all for the input and advice can`t win them
all but you can try... 7
04-26-2013, 09:51 AM
#48
CCKen
CF Veteran
Maybe you should hold up on jumping wires between the PCM and
the DLC.
Here's a schematic and a diagram of the CCD Data Bus DLC and the
modules connected to the Bus.
Join Date: Aug 2010

Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 7,839
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1999 Cherokee
THe DLC is just a portal to the CCD Data Bus and really does have
anything to do with "running" the Bus.
If you are having problems with the scanner "Communicating" with
the PCM, note on the schematic that the SCI (Serial
Communications Interface) pin cavities 6 and 7 at the DLC are the
ports for the scanner to communicate with the Bus. These SCI
circuits are connected to the PCM, TCM and ABS Module (if you
have it). Pin cavities 3 and 11 at the DLC are the CCD Data Bus
ports. Pin cavity 16 is used to power the scanner; it gets its power
from fuse 17 in the PDC. Pin cavities 4 and 5 are the grounds for
the scanner; they terminate at the oil dipstick tube mount stud.
You should make sure the pin cavities on the DLC are not corroded
(Gray or Black appearance) and that the pin cavities are not
enlarged by someone shoving meter probes in them.
You can check for power at pin cavity 16 using you Voltmeter (+)
probe to 16 and the (-) probe to 4 and/or 5. You should see battery
voltage.
Edit: The PCM and all modules shown in the schematic must be
connected before doing the followin tests.
You can check the heath of your CCD Data Bus by using your
Voltmeter (+) probe to pin cavity 3 and (-) probe to 4 or 5, and the
ignition switch to ON (RUN), without cranking the engine. You
should see around 2.49 volts. Repeat by going from cavity 11 to 4
or 5. You should see around 2.51 volts.
If these voltages are lower than 1.8 volts or higher than 2.8 volts,
there's a problem on the BUS.
There is a set of resistors in the PCM that control these voltages. If
the voltages are off, check the resistor pack in the PCM by using an
Ohmmeter. Disconnect the battery negative cable, touch pin cavity
3 with the meter (+) probe and cavity 11 with the (-) probe. You
should see 120 Ohms.
If the resistance is lower than 120 Ohms or the voltages are not
within min/max limits, the PCM is bad, a module on the bus is
corrupting the Bus, or there is bad wiring somewhere in the CCD
Data Bus.
__________________
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opinions, lets go with mine.
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We control the horizontal
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Last edited by CCKen; 04-26-2013 at 10:00 AM.
04-26-2013, 10:28 AM
seven
#49
last try
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
Ok I weill give that a try but if I remember right the black and
brown stripe wire ground from the pcm I dont think I am getting a
ground from that pin # 5?? I know I have power their and at the
ground next to it #4 the black with brown stripe #5 I have tried
My Photos
three different computers in their so far all with the same results..??
Thanks Bill
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
04-26-2013, 10:42 AM
#50
CCKen
CF Veteran
If all the tests described in the previous post are okay, continue.
Concernng the ASD relay clicking and the E-Fan running; the relay
control coils for these two relays are activated by the PCM providing
a ground path for each relay when conditions are met.
Join Date: Aug 2010

Posts: 7,839
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1999 Cherokee
You can check the relay control coil circuits to the PCM in the
following manner:
All PCM connectors attached and the battery connected.
Remove the Fan relay and the ASD relay.
Refer to the relay socket diagram. You're interested in pin cavity 85.
You are checking to see if the relay control ground circuit wires
between the relay (cavity 85) to the PCM are intact.
Using a Voltmeter touch pin cavity 85 with the (+) probe and the () probe to battery (-) post or to the chassis.
With the ignition switch OFF (LOCK) you should see between .02
and .150 volts.
Repeat with the ignition switch to ON (RUN), without cranking the
engine. You should see approximately the same voltages.
At each check wiggle the wires coming out of the PDC, along the
firewall, and at PCM. There should be no change in the voltage
readings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Check for relay control wires from relay socket pin cavity 85 to the
PCM for short to ground:
Refer to the relay socket diagram above and PCM connector C3
pinout below.
Disconnect battery negative cable.

Disconnect PCM connector C3 (Gray).
ASD Relay - Using your Ohmmeter, measure the resistance between
ASD relay pin cavity 85 and PCM C3 connector pin cavity C3. You
should read near full continuity (no more than 5 Ohms). Wiggle the
harnesses to see if the resistance reading changes. Next, read
between relay pin cavity 85 to chassis/engine ground. You shuld
read infinity on the Ohmmeter. Wiggle the harnesses to see if the
reading changes to continuity.
Fan Relay - Repeat tests as in the ASD relay tests above, only probe
pin cavity C2 of PCM connector C3.
Note when looking at the PCM connector C3, pin cavities C2 and C3
are side by side. Visually check the harness wiring at the connector
for evidence of corrosion and the PCM connector socket for the
same.
Using your Ohmmeter (with both relays removed) measure between
pin cavities C2 and C3 of the PCM harness connector C3 and see if
there is continuity between the two.
__________________

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04-26-2013, 01:27 PM
seven
#51
ccd bus and data link volts and ohms..
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
If I am following your directions properly the first thing I did was to

make sure I had 12 volts at pin #16, that was good the second was
at pin # 3 + probe pin # 4 or 5- probe volts are0.09?? did it three
times to double check.. next pin #3+ to pin #11- check ohms with
My Photos
neg battery cable disconnected from battery only reading 60
ohms?? I have the orig pcm gonna switch it back in and see if the
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
numbers change or the same >// The third pcm is in a working

truck can not get to it now.. Looks Lilke either a wire broken or all
these pcm are bad?? Bill
04-26-2013, 02:50 PM
PUNISHER
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Mt. Sidney, Va
Posts: 624
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1997 Cherokee
WOW!! This is sounding like myself right here and the issues that I
am having. Well, not exactly but, everything that CCKen has sent
you he has sent me. Everything that you are seeing as far as
voltage and Ohms is the same thing that I am seeing. When he
referred to one the 5 JBs going bad and one of them went for a
swim...well mine is the one that went for a swim..
04-26-2013, 03:21 PM
#53
CCKen
CF Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2010

Posts: 7,839
My Photos
1999 Cherokee
Quote:
Originally Posted by seven
If I am following your directions properly the first thing I

did was to make sure I had 12 volts at pin #16, that was
good the second was at pin # 3 + probe pin # 4 or 5- probe
volts are 0.09?? did it three times to double check.. next
pin #3+ to pin #11- check ohms with neg battery cable
disconnected from battery only reading 60 ohms?? I have
the orig pcm gonna switch it back in and see if the numbers
change or the same >// The third pcm is in a working truck
can not get to it now.. Looks Lilke either a wire broken or
all these pcm are bad?? Bill
When you read .09 volts I'm assuming you had the ignition switch
in the ON (RUN) position (?).
If so, it could be a bad Module on the Bus causing this.
But, go ahead and do those other checks I outlined.
__________________

see and hear
04-26-2013, 10:11 PM
seven
#54
voltage checks
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
Sorry got distracted ,anyway no the ign was off.. I rechecked same
results.. going to do the rest of the test tom afternoon a buddie is
stopping by he has a much better scanner and a fluke meter and a
better set of eye`s back, knees ,etc you get the point., lol maybe
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we are onto something?? it was defitnetly in the off pos key out of
ign.. Bill
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
04-27-2013, 06:52 AM
seven
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
#55
jb box blues..
Quote:
Originally Posted by PUNISHER
WOW!! This is sounding like myself right here and the

issues that I am having. Well, not exactly but, everything
My Photos
that CCKen has sent you he has sent me. Everything that
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
you are seeing as far as voltage and Ohms is the same
thing that I am seeing. When he referred to one the 5 JBs
going bad and one of them went for a swim...well mine is
the one that went for a swim..
I only wish that was the case with mine ?? I can not see anything
obvious.. CCken has sent me some great information though
probally would have given up if he wasn`t trying to figure it out...
04-27-2013, 08:03 PM
seven
#56
crazy elec. update
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
Hey everybody just trying to keep everybody that has been helping/
advice updated with latest finds..Today a friend of mine came over
and as CCKEN suggested we started following the ccd bus circuit
with basically the same results,. I took his advice and did not jump
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it out.. The fan turned on like clockwork and a/c relay clicking away
as soon as the key was turned to the on position which is what we
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
are really trying to get rid of., anyway out of frustration I started
moving any wire I could when I got to the gray plug on the pcm I
noticed if I pushed it in real tight against the pcm the fan shut off
and no relay`s Clicking ?? I think we might have found the problem
as soon as the fan shut off no bus displayed on the cluster, which
my buddy believes is the crank sensor, as it will not start.. when the
fan shut off by pushing gray plug which is now zip tied to pcm,. it
seems like it was before all of this started.. One of the guys that
was helping made the mistake of opening the gray plug and we are
really haveing a difficult time getting it back into the housing.. ?not
sure what to do about that?? Anyway just wanted everybody to
know I think we are makeing progress,, and yes we had cleaned
and checked that plug before but never really pushed it in tight
against the pcm like that.. ?? Pretty sure we are going in the right
direction.. at least I hope?? lol, 7
04-29-2013, 02:18 PM
seven
#57
crazy elec. problem..
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
Just to update it was not the gray plug now that I have repaired
that issue as soon as the key is turned to the on position the fan
and asd relay start clicking and fan running almost thought we had
something?? And now it is a no start issue also.. I see the punisher
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is going through what looks like the same thing?? I really hope not I
spent a lot of hours and burned a few favors with this issue with
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
neg results .., I think it is time to part it out..
04-29-2013, 07:42 PM
#58
scoobyxj
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013

Location: Coshocton, OH
Posts: 55
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You mentioned in your first post that it would start and run, but you
had to hold the throttle open to make it run. Have you replace, or
swapped out the TPS? Having to hold the throttle open is usually a
dead give away that it's bad. It is one of the 5v sensors and if it is
shorted you would have the "No Buss", and could possibility cause
the coolant temp sender to read wrong (they share the same PCM
ground along with the IATS) causing the PCM to think the motor is
grossly overheated shutting everything down by dropping the ADS
relay.
Also to clarify you are no longer having the A/C issue after repairing
the PCM plug right?
1999 @ 2000 (for parts) Cherokee
All these sensors, and relay control circuits in question are on your
grey connector. I would double check your work on it, and do a
continuity test on all the wiring associated with the sensors, and
relay control circuits on it.
Last edited by scoobyxj; 04-29-2013 at 07:56 PM.
04-29-2013, 09:28 PM
seven
#59
tps sensor
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 152
Hi thanks for the reply, yes I did try switching the tps sensor same
exact response., And when I did repair the gray plug the fan came
right back on as soon as key was turned to the on position, along
with the asd relay clicking..as it has been doing from the start.,
My Photos
Originally it did start and run but the fan would not turn on when it
would hit temperture ,only before it would start even with a cold
1990 , 1997 ,1997, 2000 Cherokee
engine now it will not start it will crank but pretty sure I lost
spark?? .. I am only guessing the crank pos sensor is bad?/ not sure
it was raining here today so didn`t really get to look at it
again..Also kind of running out of patience with it ?? So far I have
changed the alternator, two pcm`s one tcm, ign switch, tps, iac,
pick up in dist., two different clusters and checked every ground,

and connector , removed and inspected the jb or fuse box,
inspected the pdc box gone through both harness`s , really out of
option`s shame it is a pretty clean truck but think I am going to sell
it as a parts car do not know what else I can do..
04-29-2013, 10:23 PM
#60
scoobyxj
Junior Member
There is a ohms reference value to use on the CPS to test it, but I
can't remember what it is. However if it's shorted out unplugging it
should cure all the other symptoms. It won't start, but all the
wankyness should be gone.
How close are you to me? If you do decide to give up on it I might
be interested in it it the price it right, and you are close.
Join Date: Apr 2013

Location: Coshocton, OH
Posts: 55
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1999 @ 2000 (for parts) Cherokee
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